I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Well, clearly not BEFORE the election.
Wouldn't want to influence the election or anything. I mean, news can do that, you know.
That's why our major news outlets avoid it as much as possible.
P.S. Josh Marshall had a link to this yesterday, so I don't think it's been up long.
it's been up for a long time -- can't remember exactly when, but i first saw it prob a year ago.
The post has not hadd it up until recently. CNN of all places on their website has something similar but it has been up for much longer. Although their updates have been sporadic
Showing the real lives behind the casualty count numbers, showing the young, handsome faces of men and women with a lifetime full of hopes and dreams whose lives are now over - they're gone, they'll never go home.
Why does the Washington Post hate America?
You don't get it do you? This is OLD news-soldiers dying. Don't you realize the Bush is bringing democracy tothe middle east? Didnt you see the press conference with Blair?
UNLESS THE DEMS BUY CNN BEFORE REPUBS
do they are screwed. I heard a rumor a few weeks back that some big-name repubs wanted to make a move on CNN. Imagine if repubs outright owned both CNN and FOX.
second that - been up for at least several months - my guess would be at least a year.
Sent an email to Josh asking about an interesting factoid I found on that site I didn't understand. Check out the text for Sgt. Brendon C. Reiss, killed March 23, 2003:
Last seen when unit was engaged in combat operations in the vicinity of Nasiriyah.
This is very different from other text which states where and how someone was killed. How do we distinguish between KIA, MIA, etc. if a body is not found, or known to have been incinerated/etc.?
And then there are a couple of other interesting snippets, both from the same day:
Sgt. Michael E. Bitz
Last letter home: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...raqwar/
bitz.pdf
Cpl. Jorge A Gonzalez
...His parents recognized his body in an Iraqi television clip.
paul krugman is live at miami book fair on cspan2
I haven't seen it before, but I tend to read the dead-tree WaPo rather than the on-line version. WaPo has done some good stories about local kids killed in the war; one recently about a St. Mary's County kid that hit me pretty hard.
I can't recall if it was the WaPo or CNN but one or the other has been up for awhile (months at least). Of course, icasualties (formerly lunaville) has been up forever and has lots of detail. I wonder if the news sites cribbed?
What I wonder about with this particular exposition is "what about Afghanistan"? 42 dead this year, 143 total. Can we not process two wars at once, or do we just ignore the one with marginally fewer people dying?
It has been up for at least a year at this point.
I want to thank each and every one of you for ruining my perfectly snarky first post of the morning, with the facts.
Stupid facts.
All those blank heads waiting for the photos to fill them. 43 dead since the "election".
And...AMERICA WANTS THIS. Why weep for what we desire? We wanted to kill Iraqis, we asked Jesus to let us kill and He gave us the green light so we should be happy our wish came true.
There will be many, many more dead soon and this is what America is: the charnal house democracy. We kill because this is "freedom".
IF our military doesn't want to kill, all they have to do is stop. Just stop. They won't because they still think, we kill more Iraqi civilians than they kill us, hey, this is fun.
Until this stops, we will be killed.
And I see no sign of this stopping. Remember: the dead soldiers have insurance that will make their families quite comfortable. Most are expendable economic units so whatever sorrow the families feel it is filled by shopping and maybe, moving into a nicer home or better neighborhood.
Look at the 9/11 families: they got tons of money and are now blissfully shopping and evidently, aside from a few, quite happy, thank you.
Humans are, in the end, forgotten or turned into fairy tales, you shed a tear or two and then go on with life, shopping, having fun, goofing off.
This is why wars rage on and on. No one really cares if our boys die. We really don't give a hoot.
It's been up about 14 months. I've been following it regularly, looking fro the racial breakdown of those killed. For most of the first year, it was skewing slightly disproportionately toward blacks. Over the longer run, it has evened out to be more representative.
I have a son. I don't want him to die. I don't want to go shopping or get a nifty death benefit. I want him to live.
This is why I demonstrate against the war and why I supported Dean for President and why I will become violently angry if there is a draft.
Actually this has been up since the beginning of the war. Having served over there I often used this link to see if/when any of my friends were killed.
They've been printing it in their print edition rather regularly.
Been up for a LONG time.
I think this is a better, if not more impersonal, way of showing it:
http://www.infoshout.com/iraq%20...eath%
20toll.htm
Atrios, I beleive it has been up since the early days of the war.
Perhaps a more sobering question is how long will it stay up.
A depressed
Wapo ran these pictures today in print version ("Faces of the Fallen") in A section in two and half pages.
It noted in an editorial note at the top that it had previously published the galleries of the fallen on (dates here, 6 dates in 03 and 4 dates in 04).
It said it got pictures from wire services, families, local papers, etc.
It said the military does not supply pictures. These photos were in chrono order of the dates of death.
Today's photos start from Sept 6 and end on Nov 4.
There was another edit note at the end that said these photos ran on Thurs in early editions but were replaced by late breaking news in late editions.
It further noted these photos were running in all editions today.
Must also credit Wapo for covering the Falluza from insurgents' and Iraqis' POV on the front page couple of days ago from a freelancer/stringer with an Arab name. Long report with a full page on the jump.
Can we not process two wars at once, or do we just ignore the one with marginally fewer people dying?
Just FYI: There's a link to Operation Enduring Freedom at the bottom of the page showing Afghanistan war dead...
It's not visible from my computer now.
that site has been up for a VERY long time, I believe it came up right after the invasion.
I do not know how the blog-masters missed it for so long...
It actually did run right around the election -- I found it either day before/day after (sorry, but it's a blur now), from a link at Michael Moore's site.
Obviously, the WaPo didn't get the memo about the will of the people.
::
Speaking of the WaPo,
How bought their article about the CIA in chaos under Porter "How Much Can I Fuck Up America?" Goss.
#2 McGlaughlin quite, and says that Goss is fucking things up with his confrontational, politicized, asshole style and that mass resignations are just around the corner if Goss's crew desires to stay on the same path ...
this is a very disturbing story that yet again shows how much are nation is at risk under this asshat preznit.
Atrios, the depening casualty stats are helping Dear Leader. The higher the casualties the less inclined will Theocons, Neocons and Paleocons be to evacuate Iraq.
'we can't let then die in vain.' however the GIs already bagged Saddam and his Sons. The GIs did their job now get the fuck out of there.
Actually, Washington Post has had this up since pretty early on after the initial invasion in the Iraq war. I've seen it linked to in other blogs, and WaPo has even seen fit to post links to it along with some of the other articles.
Sorry. last anonymous was me.
How bought their article about the CIA in chaos under Porter "How Much Can I Fuck Up America?" Goss,/I>
smarty,
They'll just say Goss is "cleaning house" and getting rid of the "bureaucrats" who bungled 9/11. Then they'll bring in kids like the convention kicker and give them important jobs tht they can fuck up before heading off to high-paid jobs at think tanks. After our next huge intelligence failure, it'll be lather, rinse, repeat. I've given up on expecting the CIA to save us from Bush; if they didn't do it before the election, I don't think they're going to do it.
Sorry, screwed up the tag.
McAdder,
I can see your point, but what about the VietNam syndrome?
Are you saying that we will never reach that point again - where we just throw up our hands and say "nevermind'?
If things continue to go badly, I say at some point we say that the training of Iraqi forces has been successful and that we pull almost all of our people out. When this point is, I have no idea.... but if I were a betting man I'd say 2006.
hecate - your phrase "convention kicker" made me laugh - which I needed because I am pretty depressed right now... you're the best!
This is why wars rage on and on. No one really cares if our boys die. We really don't give a hoot.
Elaine Supkis
Law of averages. I haven't run the numbers, because I don't know how to compute to what the 1100 or so deaths of Americans now will progress geometrically by 2008.
But there will only be so many rosy radio addresses W can do before it starts osmosing down to the pool of potential cannon fodder that there are better career choices than certain death in a far-flung Hell, for muddy reasons given by the most hated president in history.
Add to that a major backlash by the vets who are now finding themselves called back to service after years in civilian life (a provision which I always understood to be for an "emergency"... like if we were involved in a World War we were losing!).
They're gonna have a real problem here, and if it's true that the vote did not represent what really happened, atrocities like this will continue no matter how angry the populace really is, as a whole, because whatever they do will be stamped with the imprimatur of "mandate".
I will never forget on the run-up to the war, MSNBC made Phil Donohue or somebody do a show with "balance"... they went to this military academy and talked to this roomful of buzz-cutted goobers. They asked them all the loaded questions about whether they were ready to fight, etc. To a man or woman, they were predictably young, dumb and full of come. It sounded SO fucking patriotic. I kept looking at these idiot children in uniforms that they were glorifying and propping in front of the cameras, and thinking, "Wait until half of your graduating class gets its shit blown away or is maimed for life. Wait until your daily routine consists of going into neighborhoods like the one you come from, and blowing away the kids and women like a Muslim My Lai. I can hardly wait to hear your rendition of 'God Bless America' then, you young asshole!"
Cold day in Hell, before MSNBC does a follow-up with the survivors of the Class Of '02-'03. But I can just imagine their fucking epiphany. It's called "growing up". And the media whores blew smoke up their asses and made it all seem so damned glorious.
All of which is a long way of saying that regardless of how lonely you feel about events now, despite our conquerors' best efforts, nothing lasts forever. Viet Nam didn't, and neither will this, before the entire country just shuts the fuck down. I just hope they don't start shooting us all when it does.
god, that is such a sad, sad page. all those faces of our future, snuffed out so that corporations can get their millions.
democracy for the middle east - bullshit! it's going to end up being yet another fucking dictator who will be consumed by his own people, eventually, for being our puppet.
happens all the time.
Washington Post has run this feature several times since the war started. They update it periodically. A very sad, and moving, feature. It was the first place I saw anything at all like it. Back when we weren't talking about actual dead people in this war.
It's been up for so long I can't remember when they first posted it.
I personally like the one at Micheal Moore's site better, in which the faces of the fallen are arranged in a mosaic so that the composite forms a dot-matrix image of Bush's face.
Yeah, it's been up for many months. I remember a front page link at one point, but don't recall when.
It has been up for quite a while. I seem to remember that cursor or michael moore have had a link to it. Glad to see it spread around more though. If we can't show the coffins, atleast show the names and faces somehow.
I wonder if smirky or snarly ever think twice about these soldiers, or their families. Oh yeah I forgot, their job is "hard work" as it is, better not complicate it with them pesky emotions.
Hey smarty.
There is was no such thing as a Vietnam Syndrome. it was invented by the military to shift blame for a loss onto 60s radicals. The Vietnamese were excellent soldiers backed up by powerful allies. They won on the battlefield. A cursory survey of the casualties they caused will reveal their effectiveness. The role of public opinion in ending Vietnam is overblown.
Now, here we face a different situation. The US electorate have openly endorsed a genocide. More than that 51% actively want a genocide. The more the Iraqis punch back the more they are punished. A sizable segment of the public has bloodlust.
I don't think that 51% has bloodlust - I think it's more like Elaine Supkis said - we just don't give a hoot. It's horribly sad and depressing either way.
Oh they care about some things - the Dallas paper ran a headshot of a marine over the Falluja headline the other day and the marine has a cigarette in his mouth.
That has generated more mail than one would think possible - all the nuts have been yelling because they guy is smoking.
Not anything about the hell that is Falluja - oh no. Howls of indignation because the guy has a cigarette in his mouth.
This country is unbelievably fucked up.
This has very definitely been up since early in the war. I've had it bookmarked for over a year. Those who claim it's new don't know what they are talking about.
I recall seeing it (linked from Bartcop, I think) when the list was only a couple hundred heroes long, and again referenced somewhere early this week.
After reading about the Fetus Church and how they are focused only on forcing poor trailer trash into grinding out babies...one can only laugh at the midwest and other rural places and say, well, there will be very interesting fetuses when WWIII destroys America. Double headed, multi or non limbed, etc.
Why the churches want fetuses but don't care about war is why our empire will end up in smithereens.
How to get girls pregnant: institute the draft and force only nonmothers and boys into the war machine. Nearly all girls will get pregnant, just as they are in the military this year, and thus, lose their civil rights, for we will be told, we are not able to do a man's job.
I FOUGHT FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS all my long life and this stinks. But this is how the Nazis worked, too. Women were supposed to stay home while the men killed.
This is what these monsters in America want! To end abortion by making it attractive to have babies to avoid war service AND it also produces future babies for future wars.
Pure Naziism.
Thet're going to run out of band-width, eventually.
The fact that Oklahoma churches focus only on fetuses is a historic moment in the history of human folly.
It can't go much lower than that. When only pre-babies are the focus while real, living ones are ignored or even butchered, we enter the sphere of madness that only a massive war can cure.
Just like Germany. They didn't let go of Naziism until after many were dead and all the cities a smoldering ruin. Seriously, I think we should split our country in two and let the United Fetus of the Confederacy go their own, unhappy way.
Not anything about the hell that is Falluja - oh no. Howls of indignation because the guy has a cigarette in his mouth.
This country is unbelievably fucked up.
Tena
i'll say! hell, 67 or so ABC affiliates didn't even show Saving Private Ryan on Veterans Day because they feared government fines!
At least this somewhat puts to rest the myth that only minorities are getting killed in this war. Seems like an equal opportunity killer to me, based on the pictures.
smarty - Yes, one of our local stations was one which refused.
Makes loads of sense, since they showed it last year in its entirety. But now we are playing the Victorian standards game and we aren't allowed to see people actually getting killed in war.
As long as that is ignored, it isn't happening. And certainly, no civilians in Iraq are being slaughtered. Oh no.
But by god, those soldiers are smoking and it offends our tender sensibilities.
"Fuck this country.
And idea why Lila Lipscomb's son does not appear to be on the list ( Fahrenheit 9/11)? Was his last name different from his mother's? Or did I just miss it somehow?
tk - yes, I think that his name was different can;t remember exactly.
tena - I think that the refusal to air Saving Private Ryan is a perfect window into our depraved values in this country. I think there is a thesis here for someone.
Also, thanks for the insight. Before your comments, I just assumed that the objection was that they feared that the use of profanity - the word fuck, etc. - would get them hefty fines. But you seem to say that the stations didn't want to show a movie that might remind people that there are Americans getting mowed down right now. I'll give that some thought...
I can see that rationale for ABC here in St. Louis... they are owned by those sexual perverts at Sinclair.
*sigh* I note that the name stealer is around, using my name again and now he's using my email and FirstDraft URL.
That makes it harder to tell when it isn't me. So if something offensive is said in a comment with my name and the rest on it, please keep in mind that it is probably not me.
I'm looking into taking action against the stealer in a serious way. In the meantime, just be aware, please.
I don't read right wing blogs, but if you do you might put the Army recruiting link in their comments.
let them fight their own war.
Live Free or Die (way upthread): Repugs already own CNN. The company is run by Richard Parsons, who is on the record as a Bush supporter. I think he even hosted a fundraiser for rich non-elitists during the RNC.
George says we are making progress.
Click on some of the faces you see at the Post's site. Read how they were killed, where they were from, and look at their ages. Look not just at the youth of many of these men and women but at the astonishing number of people in the guard and reserves who left wives or husbands, children and full time jobs behind to protect us from Saddam's WMD. Think about their families. Now consider that the number who weren't killed, only maimed is 4 times higher than the fallen you see at this website. Now consider for a moment that the casualty figures on the other side are 15, 20 times, maybe even higher. Think of the Iraqi families effected and the fact that they can't hide from this war by changing the channel on the TV like we can. Remember that we are doing this to spread democracy.
Now do you think we're making progress or making enemies?
I know this has been up for quite some time... Several months ago I clicked through it to check up on a friend of mine who was deployed. Saw his name on the list, and it scared this shit out of me, until I noticed the hometown. Turns out it was someone else with the same name. It's really, REALLY disturbing to have a sudden rush of relief at that realization, while at the same time knowing that this other poor bastard is no less dead than I thought my friend to be.
Naturally the majority of the dead are the lower ranking PFC's, Lance Corporal's and Spec 4's.I'll bet they come from the class of people Bush wants to give further tax breaks to.The lower economic classes are fodder to protect the upper economic strata and now the bastards dont even want to pay for their protection,if thats what they think this Iraq fiasco it.
"I don't think that 51% has bloodlust"
the red staters are having a national erection over Falluja, stroked by preznit jerkoff...more fun than the superbowl.
.
Black Sabbath's War Pig
Generals gathered in their masses,
just like witches at black masses.
Evil minds that plot destruction,
sorcerers of death's construction.
In the fields the bodies burning,
as the war machine keeps turning.
Death and hatred to mankind,
poisoning their brainwashed minds.
Oh lord, yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away.
They only started the war.
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah.
Time will tell on their power minds,
making war just for fun.
Treating people just like pawns in chess,
wait till their judgement day comes, yeah.
Now in darkness world stops turning,
ashes where the bodies burning.
No more War Pigs have the power,
Hand of God has struck the hour.
Day of judgement, God is calling,
on their knees the war pigs crawling.
Begging mercies for their sins,
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings.
Oh lord, yeah!
Michael Moore has had a link to this since at least January. Pretty profound
The Internet Archive isn't allowed to crawl the WAPO. The first reference of the URL to facesofthefallen in Google Groups is June 19th, 2003, in the group de.soc.politik.misc
http://tinyurl.com/69nso
But there is no text for that article. On June 21, in az.politics, Wil Robinson alerted us all:
http://tinyurl.com/62e4w
On May 10, 2003, alt.society.liberalism, talk.politics.misc, and alt.fan.rush-limbaugh hosted a message which contains an wapo article with the text "faces of the fallen" in it, in a manner suggesting it is the text to the link.
http://tinyurl.com/3ht54
I recall it from very early on myself.
I am 1337er than Atrios and Josh Marshall!
(okay I am not.)
Peter "Just FYI: There's a link to Operation Enduring Freedom at the bottom of the page showing Afghanistan war dead..."
OK, my bad, didn't see it. Sorry. Just seems like most of the coverage is ignoring that other war.
The higher the casualties the less inclined will Theocons, Neocons and Paleocons be to evacuate Iraq.
'we can't let then die in vain.'
not so fast.
i heard a wingnut saying those exact words ("if we leave now the soldiers who have died so far will have died for nothing") about a year ago.
vietnam anyone?
I don't read right wing blogs, but if you do you might put the Army recruiting link in their comments.
let them fight their own war.
speaking personally, i don't want those pissant, morally vacant cowards in a position where they would be the ones protecting my country.
the people over there might, most of them, want to leave, and have no idea why they're there... but at least they are trying to survive, and have the trust of their fellow soldiers.
would you really want a 23 year old rush limbaugh or sean hannity in the army fighting when there's a war that is actually necessary to protect our country and safety? getting everybody near them killed?
irony's one thing, but reality is another. and, besides, deep down they know how fucked up things are.
As I recall, this site or one exactly like it has been up since near the beginning of the war. I remember looking at it back when casulties were still making the news.
I found the photo of my brother's college friend, Allen Nolan, age 38.
Thanks.
The earliest citation I found in a few minutes of searching is Sept 2, 2003 here: http://dominionpaper.ca/weblog/
2...the_fallen.html
Elaine, you sound fucking daft. Shopping replacing someones child killed in a senseless war? Are you fucking nuts?!?!?! Clearly you have no children. No mother could ever forget, and I think fathers aren't so quick to forget either. I'm a faterh and I couldn't forget.
It's been up since before the election. Many months.
how SHOCKING! They are actually remembering the war dead! It's unpatriotic! They are clearly doing it only to sell newspapers! It is only patriotic to remember the dead on Memorial Day and Veterans Day! At any other time, it's a despicable attempt by the liberal media to help the terrorists!
It's been up at least since July. I remember because I used it as the source of pictures for the second version of the Bush mosaic, which I made either in late June or early July.
Barry Champlain | Email | Homepage | 11.13.04 - 11:25 am | #
what hurts even more is when you see the same kids back from the war and missing a leg or what not, and yet, still touting the party line, proclaiming that they'd go back to do it all over again. i chalk it up to denial. who wants to admit that they've been fooled and exploited? that their injuries were unnecessary and avoidable. and that their comrades were killed - for nothing?
that's gotta be a painful realization when they finally stop resisting the truth.
This was up in April of last year.
There was another section to it at that point: Iraqi civilian casualties. There were several dozen when I looked at it, with photos and brief written sketches, including how they died. Yes, quite a few kids. Marshall's entry yesterday got me to email the Post asking when they dropped that part of it. And why.
Hey guys,
the WaPo's "Faces of The Fallen" page has been up at least since Nov. 11/03 -- which was last years' Veteran's Day (U.S.)/Remembrance Day (Canada).
I know this, because i published a post on Nov. 11/03 at my blog and included the "Faces of the Fallen" link in the sentence "Never Forget 'the faces of those lives lived, loved and lost'."
i clicked on one of the kids faces at random, and it said he was killed when his helicopter collided with ANOTHER helicopter over the base. My question: how the FUCK do two military helos just collide over a military base?
Worst. pResident. Ever.
Right on, Voxpopgirl.
Faces of the Fallen has been up on the WaPo site since just after the opening of hostilities in April 03. I saw it in its infancy, and it hasn't changed since then, only grown larger.
How a paper, or any news medium for that matter, can so openly campaign for the guns to start blazing, which the Post apparently did, and then do something like Faces--the ultimate anti-war statement--is beyond me.
That's been up since the start of the war. Fairly well kept, too, considering it's a mainstream news site and not used to reporting actual facts.
That's been up since the start of the war. Fairly well kept, too, considering it's a mainstream news site and not used to reporting actual facts.
Michael Moore has had a link to this on his site for months.
Michael Moore has had a link to this on his site for months.
I know the WaPo's Faces of the Fallen was online on 10/07/04, because that's when I found out one of my former co-worker's was among the dead.
I know the WaPo's Faces of the Fallen was online on 10/07/04, because that's when I found out one of my former co-worker's was among the dead.
this was there at the very least when koppel was reading the names...
it's been awhile. i used it.
this was there at the very least when koppel was reading the names...
it's been awhile. i used it.
At least a year. Can't quite remember when, but I know I was looking through it last fall with despair.
At least a year. Can't quite remember when, but I know I was looking through it last fall with despair.
It's been up for over a year. I used this website back in Novemeber of 2003 to confirm that someone I had served with had gone down on one of the Blackhawks that had gotten hit coming out of Tikrit. Sharon Swartworth was a great person. The world is worse off for her loss.
It's been up for over a year. I used this website back in Novemeber of 2003 to confirm that someone I had served with had gone down on one of the Blackhawks that had gotten hit coming out of Tikrit. Sharon Swartworth was a great person. The world is worse off for her loss.
This has been up since the beginning of the war. I keep a (always growing) poster of the deaths that we display at the University of Wyoming every Wednesday when we table and so I've watched various lists of wounded since the war began. So I know this has been there since the beginning. Maybe they gave it prominent links recently but it isn't new.
This has been up since the beginning of the war. I keep a (always growing) poster of the deaths that we display at the University of Wyoming every Wednesday when we table and so I've watched various lists of wounded since the war began. So I know this has been there since the beginning. Maybe they gave it prominent links recently but it isn't new.
My cousin's picture was on there.
My cousin's picture was on there.
(remove at to reply by email)
As posters above confirm, since at least last summer: I would say June 2003. It has been possible to link through yahoo.com news portal.
Apparently the USMC always gives much less data re deaths and causes than the US Army. Interesting difference in the institutions.
I used to pass some lines on a war memorial, every day on the way to class. The memorial is Soldiers Tower, a memorial at University of Toronto to the fallen of WWI, WWII, Korea.
'Their story lies not beneath graven stone/
but carries on without visible symbol/
woven into the stuff of other men's lives'
On the opposite wall it says:
'Tell our comrades we are waiting for them up ahead'
www.alumni.utoronto.ca/groups/tower.htm
These soldiers go on, as long as we remember and cherish their names.
(remove at to reply by email)
As posters above confirm, since at least last summer: I would say June 2003. It has been possible to link through yahoo.com news portal.
Apparently the USMC always gives much less data re deaths and causes than the US Army. Interesting difference in the institutions.
I used to pass some lines on a war memorial, every day on the way to class. The memorial is Soldiers Tower, a memorial at University of Toronto to the fallen of WWI, WWII, Korea.
'Their story lies not beneath graven stone/
but carries on without visible symbol/
woven into the stuff of other men's lives'
On the opposite wall it says:
'Tell our comrades we are waiting for them up ahead'
www.alumni.utoronto.ca/groups/tower.htm
These soldiers go on, as long as we remember and cherish their names.
This has been up for as long as I can remember........
At least a year.
this is CNN's version
This has been up for as long as I can remember........
At least a year.
this is CNN's version
blueboy - I am sorry.
blueboy - I am sorry.
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