I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Can't. Everyone has been hypnotized. Sweet dreams.
Can't. Everyone has been hypnotized. Sweet dreams.
The Matrix has you.
The Matrix has you.
don't forget the synthetic terror attack that will provide new incentive for war.
don't forget the synthetic terror attack that will provide new incentive for war.
no. better to sleep. Rip Van Winkle had the right idea.
no. better to sleep. Rip Van Winkle had the right idea.
Don't forget yellow cake uranium from ...h'mm....Mali this time.
Don't forget yellow cake uranium from ...h'mm....Mali this time.
Judith Miller's already got an Iranian source, no? Or was I imagining that time that Chalabi gave the Iranians classified US materials?
Judith Miller's already got an Iranian source, no? Or was I imagining that time that Chalabi gave the Iranians classified US materials?
they however are not a broken down country who cannot defend themselves...in fact the opposite is true...
they however are not a broken down country who cannot defend themselves...in fact the opposite is true...
Maybe the Groundhogs will fight this one for us too. Or maybe we'll just forget about Iraq and focus our infantile attentions on the shiny new war.
Maybe the Groundhogs will fight this one for us too. Or maybe we'll just forget about Iraq and focus our infantile attentions on the shiny new war.
Andy Card will wait until after the Christmas Rush, so as not to distract us from our other consumer items....
Andy Card will wait until after the Christmas Rush, so as not to distract us from our other consumer items....
Why start a war now? There are no elections around the corner?
They'll wait until spring 2006.
Why start a war now? There are no elections around the corner?
They'll wait until spring 2006.
Crimes against peace:
(1)Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(2)Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (1).
Sounds like more crimes against peace are afoot. Oh well international law is whatever we say it is and the constitution is so much asswipe.
Crimes against peace:
(1)Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(2)Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (1).
Sounds like more crimes against peace are afoot. Oh well international law is whatever we say it is and the constitution is so much asswipe.
First, the Reichstag must burn. Then on to new invasions.
First, the Reichstag must burn. Then on to new invasions.
dont forget josh micah marhall singing praises of ken pollack.
dont forget josh micah marhall singing praises of ken pollack.
Well, things are going so well in Iraq, I mean only 90 soldiers dead so far this month, we may as well gear up for Iran.
I need some smoke.
Well, things are going so well in Iraq, I mean only 90 soldiers dead so far this month, we may as well gear up for Iran.
I need some smoke.
of course the real problem is definitely NOT going to be a "cakewalk". They are a much stronger and bigger country than Iraq. Bush would have to have major balls to really go into Iran.
Unless we use nukes.
And, what a coinky-dink, Iran is a NUCLEAR threat.
Anyone want to guess the odds on a radioactive dirty bomb attack in the US in the next year or so?
of course the real problem is definitely NOT going to be a "cakewalk". They are a much stronger and bigger country than Iraq. Bush would have to have major balls to really go into Iran.
Unless we use nukes.
And, what a coinky-dink, Iran is a NUCLEAR threat.
Anyone want to guess the odds on a radioactive dirty bomb attack in the US in the next year or so?
Atrios,
What worries me is that it's all happening so fast, like they know something's in the air and they only have a limited amount of time to get things done. The hopeful cynic in me wants it to be that they're committing Kerry to an unwinnable war before Ohio blows wide open and he gets control of Toady Hall, but I dunno.
Atrios,
What worries me is that it's all happening so fast, like they know something's in the air and they only have a limited amount of time to get things done. The hopeful cynic in me wants it to be that they're committing Kerry to an unwinnable war before Ohio blows wide open and he gets control of Toady Hall, but I dunno.
That will give them time to DRAFT and train at least 250,000 new troups between now and then.
"Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys . . . ."
Scratch that, change "cowboys" to "soldiers."
That will give them time to DRAFT and train at least 250,000 new troups between now and then.
"Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys . . . ."
Scratch that, change "cowboys" to "soldiers."
And while we're at it, you might want to check out River's new blog -- hearts and minds, you know:
Riverbend
God Bless America.
And while we're at it, you might want to check out River's new blog -- hearts and minds, you know:
Riverbend
God Bless America.
I think sending judy to iraq would be a good idea... she seemed to think that sending our troops there was such a good idea, afterall....
I think sending judy to iraq would be a good idea... she seemed to think that sending our troops there was such a good idea, afterall....
The White House claims that they've been keeping up with the Brits, the French and the Germans throughout the deveolpment of this new agreement with Iran. But they also say they'll have to wait and see all the details before they offer a judgement on its value.
So which is it? Do they know what is in the agreement or not?
From Monday's gaggle:
Q Scott, what's the White House response to Iran's latest offer on the handling of its nuclear material?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, we are staying in touch with our European friends, the British and French and Germans, who have worked on this agreement. I expect we'll have more to say once we have the opportunity to learn more about the specific details. I think our position, though, is very well-known. But, again, it's something we will be discussing with our European friends.
Q Let me follow up on that. You've known for some days, if not weeks, what's in this agreement. Isn't it at least a step in the right direction, even if you're not ready to --
MR. McCLELLAN: We don't know the specific details of the agreement. I'm not even sure that the Europeans have gone out and spoken about the agreement. I've seen some comment from Iran and from the IAEA. We always stay in close contact with them, and now we are in the process of trying to find out more specific details about this agreement. I think it's very clear what our views are. Iran needs to fully comply with its obligation; Iran needs to suspend all its enrichment and reprocessing activities; Iran needs to adhere to the additional protocol and Iran needs to fully comply with the International Atomic Energy Agency. And I think these are discussions that the Europeans were having with Iran, and they've had quite some time to comply.
Q I guess I'm a little puzzled, though, because you've been telling us that we're working closely with the Germans and the others in the EU who have taken the lead on this, but yet we don't know enough to say whether it's even a step in the right direction?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, we like to have the full details before us before we go out and make comments about it. And we're continuing to find out the specific details of the agreement. You haven't even heard from the Europeans at this point, Mark, so I'm not sure why you're confused about it.
The White House claims that they've been keeping up with the Brits, the French and the Germans throughout the deveolpment of this new agreement with Iran. But they also say they'll have to wait and see all the details before they offer a judgement on its value.
So which is it? Do they know what is in the agreement or not?
From Monday's gaggle:
Q Scott, what's the White House response to Iran's latest offer on the handling of its nuclear material?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, we are staying in touch with our European friends, the British and French and Germans, who have worked on this agreement. I expect we'll have more to say once we have the opportunity to learn more about the specific details. I think our position, though, is very well-known. But, again, it's something we will be discussing with our European friends.
Q Let me follow up on that. You've known for some days, if not weeks, what's in this agreement. Isn't it at least a step in the right direction, even if you're not ready to --
MR. McCLELLAN: We don't know the specific details of the agreement. I'm not even sure that the Europeans have gone out and spoken about the agreement. I've seen some comment from Iran and from the IAEA. We always stay in close contact with them, and now we are in the process of trying to find out more specific details about this agreement. I think it's very clear what our views are. Iran needs to fully comply with its obligation; Iran needs to suspend all its enrichment and reprocessing activities; Iran needs to adhere to the additional protocol and Iran needs to fully comply with the International Atomic Energy Agency. And I think these are discussions that the Europeans were having with Iran, and they've had quite some time to comply.
Q I guess I'm a little puzzled, though, because you've been telling us that we're working closely with the Germans and the others in the EU who have taken the lead on this, but yet we don't know enough to say whether it's even a step in the right direction?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, we like to have the full details before us before we go out and make comments about it. And we're continuing to find out the specific details of the agreement. You haven't even heard from the Europeans at this point, Mark, so I'm not sure why you're confused about it.
And I know for a fact that the Iranian people WILL welcome us and will throw candies before our feet, etc. etc. etc.
Unless we accidentally kill one of them, in which case all bets are off.
And I know for a fact that the Iranian people WILL welcome us and will throw candies before our feet, etc. etc. etc.
Unless we accidentally kill one of them, in which case all bets are off.
We should keep attacking everyone who didn't attack us on 9/11.
Until we're broke.
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We should keep attacking everyone who didn't attack us on 9/11.
Until we're broke.
-
The scary thing is that it may not be up to us--Israel might make the decision for us.
The scary thing is that it may not be up to us--Israel might make the decision for us.
The dems should propose legislation prohibiting the President from starting another war untill he has caught or killed Osama bin Forgotten.
The dems should propose legislation prohibiting the President from starting another war untill he has caught or killed Osama bin Forgotten.
I cannot believe that "Old Europe" is still fooling around with the quaint notion of "diplomacy."
9/11 changed everything right?
I cannot believe that "Old Europe" is still fooling around with the quaint notion of "diplomacy."
9/11 changed everything right?
The scary thing is that it may not be up to us--Israel might make the decision for us.
Christopher
Yeah, but the Israelis will do it smart, they will just bomb the shit out of any suspected facility and then go home.
The scary thing is that it may not be up to us--Israel might make the decision for us.
Christopher
Yeah, but the Israelis will do it smart, they will just bomb the shit out of any suspected facility and then go home.
The scary thing is that it may not be up to us--Israel might make the decision for us.
Given the Likud-AIPAC-OSP backchannel into Bush's Brain, who said that is any different from the last time?
The scary thing is that it may not be up to us--Israel might make the decision for us.
Given the Likud-AIPAC-OSP backchannel into Bush's Brain, who said that is any different from the last time?
Holden...priceless Scotty.
Holden...priceless Scotty.
"We should keep attacking everyone who didn't attack us on 9/11.
Until we're broke."
aaron,
Mission accomplished! We are broke. The bank (Japan, China, S. Arabia) just hasn't called in our debt.
"We should keep attacking everyone who didn't attack us on 9/11.
Until we're broke."
aaron,
Mission accomplished! We are broke. The bank (Japan, China, S. Arabia) just hasn't called in our debt.
aaron,
Oops! we are.
aaron,
Oops! we are.
What time shall I place your wake-up call of "Shock and Awe," sir?
What time shall I place your wake-up call of "Shock and Awe," sir?
Hold on -- as the saying goes, "You and what army?"
I mean, Halliburton'll have no problem hiring $100K teamsters and $200K security specialists, but where will we get the actual troops to fight the war? Even if a draft were announced today, the new troops wouldn't be ready for at least a year.
Of course, Rummy's probably decided that since we overran Iraq with only 100,000 soldiers, we'll only need 20,000 for this one. And robots -- lots and lots of robots.
Hold on -- as the saying goes, "You and what army?"
I mean, Halliburton'll have no problem hiring $100K teamsters and $200K security specialists, but where will we get the actual troops to fight the war? Even if a draft were announced today, the new troops wouldn't be ready for at least a year.
Of course, Rummy's probably decided that since we overran Iraq with only 100,000 soldiers, we'll only need 20,000 for this one. And robots -- lots and lots of robots.
Well, I ain't paying for this one.
The checks haven't even cleared from the LAST one!
It's like the old saying about checks...
"We can't be out of wars.. we still have some soldiers left!"
Well, I ain't paying for this one.
The checks haven't even cleared from the LAST one!
It's like the old saying about checks...
"We can't be out of wars.. we still have some soldiers left!"
The scary thing is that it may not be up to us--Israel might make the decision for us.
--Christopher
They already have, Chris.
The scary thing is that it may not be up to us--Israel might make the decision for us.
--Christopher
They already have, Chris.
I simply must apologize for comments made under my handle in an earlier thread. Apparently, some fundie brownshirt nicked my nick...
I simply must apologize for comments made under my handle in an earlier thread. Apparently, some fundie brownshirt nicked my nick...
Who gives a shit? There's a mandate, remember?
Let 'em reap what they sow, why should we care? I'm all for divestment and retrenchment and poking our heads up from the rubble only after the dust settles.
It's a long war we fight. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. They won the election, let 'em own the mess. Refuse to partake.
Who gives a shit? There's a mandate, remember?
Let 'em reap what they sow, why should we care? I'm all for divestment and retrenchment and poking our heads up from the rubble only after the dust settles.
It's a long war we fight. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. They won the election, let 'em own the mess. Refuse to partake.
We should keep attacking everyone who didn't attack us on 9/11.
Absolutely! It sends a message to the people who actually did attack us: "If the Americans kill this many people who did not attack them, think what they will do to us if we attack them again! Aieeeeee!!!"
Bring it on, ragheads. We double-dog-dare yuh! Go on -- you so much as look cross-eyed at a major American city, and we're taking out Denmark!
That'll show 'em!
The bastards!
We should keep attacking everyone who didn't attack us on 9/11.
Absolutely! It sends a message to the people who actually did attack us: "If the Americans kill this many people who did not attack them, think what they will do to us if we attack them again! Aieeeeee!!!"
Bring it on, ragheads. We double-dog-dare yuh! Go on -- you so much as look cross-eyed at a major American city, and we're taking out Denmark!
That'll show 'em!
The bastards!
So far, everything the anonymous State Dept. employee wrote in his/her story for Salon is coming true. I wonder if "Anonymous" is Colin Powell. Hmmm.
So far, everything the anonymous State Dept. employee wrote in his/her story for Salon is coming true. I wonder if "Anonymous" is Colin Powell. Hmmm.
What do you mean? We have always been at war with Eastasia.
-
What do you mean? We have always been at war with Eastasia.
-
I read this book in college, I think. Here's how it ends: the rock rolls back down the hill and Sisyphus starts pushing it back up all over again. Oy.
I read this book in college, I think. Here's how it ends: the rock rolls back down the hill and Sisyphus starts pushing it back up all over again. Oy.
And we can thank John Kerry for doing the right thing and conceding for the good of the country.
And we can thank John Kerry for doing the right thing and conceding for the good of the country.
Alright, that does it. What's the safeword? You know that word we can shout when the torture scenario goes too far?
Alright, that does it. What's the safeword? You know that word we can shout when the torture scenario goes too far?
Steve,
I am not so sure lots of troops are planned... I think their gameplan - as far as they have one - may be to rely on airpower to destroy any nuclear sites.
They may rely on Israel to do this, but may think that is too politically charged and will do it themselves.
After the strike, they will hope that the regime falls. Of course, that won't happen, so we'll just continue to degrade their defenses through air power and kill a whole lot of people.
I say we are a second rate power by 2025.
Steve,
I am not so sure lots of troops are planned... I think their gameplan - as far as they have one - may be to rely on airpower to destroy any nuclear sites.
They may rely on Israel to do this, but may think that is too politically charged and will do it themselves.
After the strike, they will hope that the regime falls. Of course, that won't happen, so we'll just continue to degrade their defenses through air power and kill a whole lot of people.
I say we are a second rate power by 2025.
Burrrrrr...can you feel the draft...
Burrrrrr...can you feel the draft...
we're taking out Denmark!
...Really, lets send our troops some place nice. I bet they'd get welcomed with flowers in Holland.
we're taking out Denmark!
...Really, lets send our troops some place nice. I bet they'd get welcomed with flowers in Holland.
Well, we are staying in touch with our European friends
European friends? Do we have any European friends?
Well, we are staying in touch with our European friends
European friends? Do we have any European friends?
aaron,
Mission accomplished! We are broke. The bank (Japan, China, S. Arabia) just hasn't called in our debt.--tbone
We can attack on plastic...right?
Until all not responsible for 9/11 are dead or tortured to near death with overpriced torture accessories.
-
aaron,
Mission accomplished! We are broke. The bank (Japan, China, S. Arabia) just hasn't called in our debt.--tbone
We can attack on plastic...right?
Until all not responsible for 9/11 are dead or tortured to near death with overpriced torture accessories.
-
This is seriously OT, but does anyone happen to know a good centralized website for 2004 election fraud / recount issues?
Thanks.
This is seriously OT, but does anyone happen to know a good centralized website for 2004 election fraud / recount issues?
Thanks.
Don't forget the rolling out of Dem clips from the likes of Kerry and Edwards saying how Iran is a threat to bolster their case for war...Conspicuously leaving out their calls for a DIPLOMATIC not MILITARY solution.
Don't forget the rolling out of Dem clips from the likes of Kerry and Edwards saying how Iran is a threat to bolster their case for war...Conspicuously leaving out their calls for a DIPLOMATIC not MILITARY solution.
and thank god we are bogged down in Iraq. FUBAR.
and thank god we are bogged down in Iraq. FUBAR.
We need to all speak very loudly and clearly "we will not nominate any Democrat who openly supports war with Iran. We will not nominate any Democrat who openly supports war with Iran."
We need to all speak very loudly and clearly "we will not nominate any Democrat who openly supports war with Iran. We will not nominate any Democrat who openly supports war with Iran."
Denmark IS nice!!
Denmark IS nice!!
Don't worry about how we'll pay for a war with Iran. There is enough oil there for it to pay for its own reconstruction.
Don't worry about how we'll pay for a war with Iran. There is enough oil there for it to pay for its own reconstruction.
European friends? Do we have any European friends?
mothra
You forgot Poland.
-
European friends? Do we have any European friends?
mothra
You forgot Poland.
-
Christopher:
"We will not nominate any Democrat who supports the wars in the middle east."
Christopher:
"We will not nominate any Democrat who supports the wars in the middle east."
European friends? Do we have any European friends?
Not if the dollar keeps tanking.
European friends? Do we have any European friends?
Not if the dollar keeps tanking.
I think their gameplan - as far as they have one - may be to rely on airpower to destroy any nuclear sites.
After the strike, they will hope that the regime falls. Of course, that won't happen, so we'll just continue to degrade their defenses through air power and kill a whole lot of people.
That sounds far too Clinton-esque a plan for this gang of idiots to adopt....
On the positive side, wouldn't war with Iran allow people who have old "Ayatollah Assatollah" tee shirts to make a mint selling them on eBay? According to Cheney, eBay sales are a key component of our economy....
I think their gameplan - as far as they have one - may be to rely on airpower to destroy any nuclear sites.
After the strike, they will hope that the regime falls. Of course, that won't happen, so we'll just continue to degrade their defenses through air power and kill a whole lot of people.
That sounds far too Clinton-esque a plan for this gang of idiots to adopt....
On the positive side, wouldn't war with Iran allow people who have old "Ayatollah Assatollah" tee shirts to make a mint selling them on eBay? According to Cheney, eBay sales are a key component of our economy....
Well if this is the degree of seriousness which "atrios" is going to bring to such a grave subject then we can safely assume that he and his ilk will be making themselves irrelevant for another four years.
No great loss.
Well if this is the degree of seriousness which "atrios" is going to bring to such a grave subject then we can safely assume that he and his ilk will be making themselves irrelevant for another four years.
No great loss.
I went to school with Ken Pollack. He is a tool and always has been.
I went to school with Ken Pollack. He is a tool and always has been.
The real reason for invading Iran, is that after the Iraq debacle, we have to go into the Arab world and break some more stuff to show them we're serious. What, Iranians aren't Arabs? Well, you know what I mean.
And anyways, the really real reason for invading Iran is to draw terrorists out of Iraq, like flypaper if you will. I predict terrorist attacks in Iraq to drop dramatically as the terrorists flock to attack our forces in Iran.
The real reason for invading Iran, is that after the Iraq debacle, we have to go into the Arab world and break some more stuff to show them we're serious. What, Iranians aren't Arabs? Well, you know what I mean.
And anyways, the really real reason for invading Iran is to draw terrorists out of Iraq, like flypaper if you will. I predict terrorist attacks in Iraq to drop dramatically as the terrorists flock to attack our forces in Iran.
Check out the latest issue of The Atlantic; there's a story on the very issue of whether or not striking Iran is a good idea.
Short version: It's not. And this from a variety of people with varying political views.
Check out the latest issue of The Atlantic; there's a story on the very issue of whether or not striking Iran is a good idea.
Short version: It's not. And this from a variety of people with varying political views.
the last two years really did righteously suck. I don't want to do them again.
Atrios: do them again if you have to, and do a better job.
The same advice goes for myself and for all of us.
-Just Tough Love
the last two years really did righteously suck. I don't want to do them again.
Atrios: do them again if you have to, and do a better job.
The same advice goes for myself and for all of us.
-Just Tough Love
re talk of israel upthread. you might want to check out steve clemons writing on this. the mossad is undergoing its own purge via a sharon ally.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/
Turmoil rocks politicized Mossad
The CIA is not the only major intelligence agency rocked by resignations of senior veteran officials and charges of politicization. Disgruntled veteran spooks of Israel's famous Mossad intelligence service are now going public with their complaints too.
Israel's Channel 2 has run a documentary claiming that no less than 200 agents including seven department chiefs have resigned in recent months.
They were furious, the documentary claimed because the Mossad's current chief Meir Dagan, a long time close friend of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, was politicizing the agency and massively downgrading the Mossad's traditional low expertise in humint, human intelligence, gathering and its analysis in favor of the currently fashionable war against Islamic terrorism.
Dagan, according to the claims, has put the emphasis on carrying the war against terror to previously secure strongholds of Islamist militant organizations in Arab countries. The September assassination of a Hamas senior official in Damascus is believed to have been one of the first successful operations carried out under this policy.
Dagan's purge of the Mossad, carried out with Sharon's full approval has striking parallels with the turmoil now shaking the discreet corridors of CIA headquarters in Langley, Va. Porter Goss, President George W. Bush's recent pick to replace George Tenet as Director of Central Intelligence, distrusted the old intelligence establishment as liberal wimps, the same attitude Dagan has shown to old-time spymasters in the Mossad.
re talk of israel upthread. you might want to check out steve clemons writing on this. the mossad is undergoing its own purge via a sharon ally.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/
Turmoil rocks politicized Mossad
The CIA is not the only major intelligence agency rocked by resignations of senior veteran officials and charges of politicization. Disgruntled veteran spooks of Israel's famous Mossad intelligence service are now going public with their complaints too.
Israel's Channel 2 has run a documentary claiming that no less than 200 agents including seven department chiefs have resigned in recent months.
They were furious, the documentary claimed because the Mossad's current chief Meir Dagan, a long time close friend of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, was politicizing the agency and massively downgrading the Mossad's traditional low expertise in humint, human intelligence, gathering and its analysis in favor of the currently fashionable war against Islamic terrorism.
Dagan, according to the claims, has put the emphasis on carrying the war against terror to previously secure strongholds of Islamist militant organizations in Arab countries. The September assassination of a Hamas senior official in Damascus is believed to have been one of the first successful operations carried out under this policy.
Dagan's purge of the Mossad, carried out with Sharon's full approval has striking parallels with the turmoil now shaking the discreet corridors of CIA headquarters in Langley, Va. Porter Goss, President George W. Bush's recent pick to replace George Tenet as Director of Central Intelligence, distrusted the old intelligence establishment as liberal wimps, the same attitude Dagan has shown to old-time spymasters in the Mossad.
Denmark IS nice!!
...true, but the dutch have acres and acres of flowers to shower upon us.
Denmark IS nice!!
...true, but the dutch have acres and acres of flowers to shower upon us.
Shades of 1938?
Shades of 1938?
Denmark IS nice!!
It was even better before the kicked the hippies out of Christiana.
Denmark IS nice!!
It was even better before the kicked the hippies out of Christiana.
the(y)
the(y)
At this rate we allwill be irrelevant. No great loss.
At this rate we allwill be irrelevant. No great loss.
Well if this is the degree of seriousness which "atrios" is going to bring to such a grave subject...
Go blow it out your mandate, dickwart.
Well if this is the degree of seriousness which "atrios" is going to bring to such a grave subject...
Go blow it out your mandate, dickwart.
Hold on...war fever is hard to quell...but if we attack Iran wouldn't that make China, one of our biggest foreign creditors, angry? They recently made an oil deal with the Persians. We need the oil and the blind revenge...but we also need the money.
Can we attack China? How cheap could we do it?
-
Hold on...war fever is hard to quell...but if we attack Iran wouldn't that make China, one of our biggest foreign creditors, angry? They recently made an oil deal with the Persians. We need the oil and the blind revenge...but we also need the money.
Can we attack China? How cheap could we do it?
-
"the last two years really did righteously suck. I don't want to do them again."
Welcome to Bushworld, where up is down, lies are truth, and f-ups are heros, over and over again.
(PS, wasn't it the last FOUR years that really sucked, not just 2?)
"the last two years really did righteously suck. I don't want to do them again."
Welcome to Bushworld, where up is down, lies are truth, and f-ups are heros, over and over again.
(PS, wasn't it the last FOUR years that really sucked, not just 2?)
But Denmark has Bellevue Strand. How could we possibly justify the cold-blooded murder of blonde topless sunbathers?
But Denmark has Bellevue Strand. How could we possibly justify the cold-blooded murder of blonde topless sunbathers?
And don't forget to re-read Michael Ledeen's offer to the Los Angeles Iranians - $20 million for a free Iran!
And don't forget to re-read Michael Ledeen's offer to the Los Angeles Iranians - $20 million for a free Iran!
Oh crumbs, that's what you get when a bad-eyed historian types out URL's by hand any more. Here's Ledeen!
Oh crumbs, that's what you get when a bad-eyed historian types out URL's by hand any more. Here's Ledeen!
the next invasion, like the last will be at a time and place of unka karl's choosing in order to maximize political advantage for repukelicans.
-
the next invasion, like the last will be at a time and place of unka karl's choosing in order to maximize political advantage for repukelicans.
-
I think Pollack's book is called, 'This Time the Storm Really IS Gathering. See it? Right Over There. Big Storm. I Promise. Right Behind Those Clouds." His editors aren't crazy about it and the art dept's having a fit trying to design a cover, but so it goes.
I think Pollack's book is called, 'This Time the Storm Really IS Gathering. See it? Right Over There. Big Storm. I Promise. Right Behind Those Clouds." His editors aren't crazy about it and the art dept's having a fit trying to design a cover, but so it goes.
Ewww... someone shat!
As usual, the "hat"-troll has nothing of value to offer to any discussion, just whiny insults.
So it IS just like Groundhog Day.
Ewww... someone shat!
As usual, the "hat"-troll has nothing of value to offer to any discussion, just whiny insults.
So it IS just like Groundhog Day.
Please tell me that we aren't going to invade Iran. Please. You can't be serious.
Oh holy fuck - I can't stand it.
Please tell me that we aren't going to invade Iran. Please. You can't be serious.
Oh holy fuck - I can't stand it.
Can we attack China? How cheap could we do it?
Nukes.
The southern hemisphere is is starting to look like a good place to live.
Can we attack China? How cheap could we do it?
Nukes.
The southern hemisphere is is starting to look like a good place to live.
Maybe Harry Reid can help us avoid Iran by offering Syria as a compromise.
Maybe Harry Reid can help us avoid Iran by offering Syria as a compromise.
I think Pollack's book is called, 'This Time the Storm Really IS Gathering. See it? Right Over There. Big Storm. I Promise. Right Behind Those Clouds." His editors aren't crazy about it and the art dept's having a fit trying to design a cover, but so it goes.
Dan McEnroe | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 3:34 pm | #
I heard it was going to be called "Wolf!" before that, but that CNN threatened to sue.
Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, can't get fooled again.
Right, America? C'mon, you're not going to buy this again are you?
I think Pollack's book is called, 'This Time the Storm Really IS Gathering. See it? Right Over There. Big Storm. I Promise. Right Behind Those Clouds." His editors aren't crazy about it and the art dept's having a fit trying to design a cover, but so it goes.
Dan McEnroe | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 3:34 pm | #
I heard it was going to be called "Wolf!" before that, but that CNN threatened to sue.
Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, can't get fooled again.
Right, America? C'mon, you're not going to buy this again are you?
No short-term worries regarding Iran. We don't have the resources to continue winning those Iraqi hearts & minds while at the same time attempting to "liberate" Iran.
In the longer term (at least three years from now) I am concerned that last gasp fundamentalism from either the US, Iran, or Israel could lead to a death toll that would dwarf the Iraq invasion/occupation.
No short-term worries regarding Iran. We don't have the resources to continue winning those Iraqi hearts & minds while at the same time attempting to "liberate" Iran.
In the longer term (at least three years from now) I am concerned that last gasp fundamentalism from either the US, Iran, or Israel could lead to a death toll that would dwarf the Iraq invasion/occupation.
wOOt - Thank you - I love those lovely creatures, the dik-diks. A very nice change from boobies. I love boobies, too, but I am a girl, so the dik diks are really nice to see for a change.
wOOt - Thank you - I love those lovely creatures, the dik-diks. A very nice change from boobies. I love boobies, too, but I am a girl, so the dik diks are really nice to see for a change.
Well, fellow homo sapiens, it's been a nice long run, hasn't it? Nothing left to do but ring down the nuclear curtain and dim the lights of civilization on our way out...
Well, fellow homo sapiens, it's been a nice long run, hasn't it? Nothing left to do but ring down the nuclear curtain and dim the lights of civilization on our way out...
Hey, I'm reading from a source I don't have time to verify that there's a portion of the No Child Left Behind Act that requires high schools to provide confidential student information to military recruiters. Parents can opt out and keep their child's information confidential, I guess, if they know that they can...
Does anyone have any advice on how to get my blood pressure back down? I don't have time to round up all the reds and dump them at the recruiting office today.
Hey, I'm reading from a source I don't have time to verify that there's a portion of the No Child Left Behind Act that requires high schools to provide confidential student information to military recruiters. Parents can opt out and keep their child's information confidential, I guess, if they know that they can...
Does anyone have any advice on how to get my blood pressure back down? I don't have time to round up all the reds and dump them at the recruiting office today.
So on or about September 11, 2005, we should expect some kind of HORRIFIC EVENT that can loosely be connected to Iran. (After all, you don't introduce new products in August.)
And years later Stephen Hadley will be called before some kind of "September 11" Commission to deny that there was a Presidential Daily Briefing warning of a threat, etc., etc., etc.
And the people who manufacture cheap patriotic flags and stickers for SUVs will be able to pass their riches on to their children tax-free.
At least in the movie Groundhog Day, Bill Murray's character learns something. Anything.
So on or about September 11, 2005, we should expect some kind of HORRIFIC EVENT that can loosely be connected to Iran. (After all, you don't introduce new products in August.)
And years later Stephen Hadley will be called before some kind of "September 11" Commission to deny that there was a Presidential Daily Briefing warning of a threat, etc., etc., etc.
And the people who manufacture cheap patriotic flags and stickers for SUVs will be able to pass their riches on to their children tax-free.
At least in the movie Groundhog Day, Bill Murray's character learns something. Anything.
Well, fellow homo sapiens, it's been a nice long run, hasn't it?
Gah, not for me it hasn't! Come on, us 18-29s voted staggeringly for Kerry, don't let them kill us all now...
Well, fellow homo sapiens, it's been a nice long run, hasn't it?
Gah, not for me it hasn't! Come on, us 18-29s voted staggeringly for Kerry, don't let them kill us all now...
Bush is Greg Stilson.
Bush is Greg Stilson.
It's like the old saying about checks...
"We can't be out of wars.. we still have some soldiers left!"
Guy
I like checks...and balances.
It's like the old saying about checks...
"We can't be out of wars.. we still have some soldiers left!"
Guy
I like checks...and balances.
Sadly, it's already begun: Pollack on The Daily Show
And although Jon Stewart is his usual respectful self, you can just sense another spinning-on-the-chair-going-wheeeee at-the-sheer-insanity-of-it-all moment coming up. As did I, when I realised that's the toughest interview the book is likely to get now...
*sighs*
Sadly, it's already begun: Pollack on The Daily Show
And although Jon Stewart is his usual respectful self, you can just sense another spinning-on-the-chair-going-wheeeee at-the-sheer-insanity-of-it-all moment coming up. As did I, when I realised that's the toughest interview the book is likely to get now...
*sighs*
"... the last two years really did righteously suck. I don't want to do them again."
Don't kid yourself, Atrios. Four years from now you'll look back on the last two years with longing for the way things were before the shit really hit the fan.
"... the last two years really did righteously suck. I don't want to do them again."
Don't kid yourself, Atrios. Four years from now you'll look back on the last two years with longing for the way things were before the shit really hit the fan.
Does Iran have enough flowers to toss to our troops? At least the Afghans had poppies.
Once one has discovered the limits of a superpower, it's best to see what lies beyond those limits.
Does Iran have enough flowers to toss to our troops? At least the Afghans had poppies.
Once one has discovered the limits of a superpower, it's best to see what lies beyond those limits.
We're not invading Iran.
Are we?
We're not invading Iran.
Are we?
Right, America? C'mon, you're not going to buy this again are you?
int argc
Hell, we'll buy anything if its made in China and sold at Wal Mart.
Right, America? C'mon, you're not going to buy this again are you?
int argc
Hell, we'll buy anything if its made in China and sold at Wal Mart.
Sorta OT
Isn't it odd that the Blackwater, Dyncorp, etc. "security" guys never seem to get hit with the backdoor draft.
Sorta OT
Isn't it odd that the Blackwater, Dyncorp, etc. "security" guys never seem to get hit with the backdoor draft.
Maybe we can ship flowers and candy to Iran so the freed Irani's can throw them at our soldiers feet!
I'll call Halliburton pronto.
Maybe we can ship flowers and candy to Iran so the freed Irani's can throw them at our soldiers feet!
I'll call Halliburton pronto.
Anyone want to guess the odds on a radioactive dirty bomb attack in the US in the next year or so?
Alexander | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 2:51 pm | #
I've been saying something along these lines for the past two weeks to anyone who will listen.
Once something like this happens, a military draft that is SUPPORTED by the people is a done deal.
Anyone want to guess the odds on a radioactive dirty bomb attack in the US in the next year or so?
Alexander | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 2:51 pm | #
I've been saying something along these lines for the past two weeks to anyone who will listen.
Once something like this happens, a military draft that is SUPPORTED by the people is a done deal.
Oh yeah . . . .
Can we look forward to Congressional Dems again playing along?
Specifically, it will be interesting to see if John Kerry has learned anything.
Oh yeah . . . .
Can we look forward to Congressional Dems again playing along?
Specifically, it will be interesting to see if John Kerry has learned anything.
At least this time you won't get to mess with my colin.
At least this time you won't get to mess with my colin.
Gah, not for me it hasn't! Come on, us 18-29s voted staggeringly for Kerry, don't let them kill us all now...
int argc
Anyone in that age group needs to be worried about Iran more than anyone else, did you feel that...
did someone leave a window open
Gah, not for me it hasn't! Come on, us 18-29s voted staggeringly for Kerry, don't let them kill us all now...
int argc
Anyone in that age group needs to be worried about Iran more than anyone else, did you feel that...
did someone leave a window open
Maybe I'm naive, but given that Iran just cut a deal to suspend the nuke program, and given that we're clearly militarily over-extended already, I don't actually an Iran incursion would be very likely.
Maybe I'm naive, but given that Iran just cut a deal to suspend the nuke program, and given that we're clearly militarily over-extended already, I don't actually an Iran incursion would be very likely.
The Germans, French and Russians should invite themselves in. The Iranians could hold joint manouvres and let the Chars, Panzers and Tanks roam around in the South Caspian area.
The Germans, French and Russians should invite themselves in. The Iranians could hold joint manouvres and let the Chars, Panzers and Tanks roam around in the South Caspian area.
Can we look forward to Congressional Dems again playing along?
Past behavior is a reliable predictor of future conduct.
Can we look forward to Congressional Dems again playing along?
Past behavior is a reliable predictor of future conduct.
There is something we can do:
Start alerting everybody we know NOW as to what is coming down the road, and how the Administration is going to manipulate the public to get there.
There is something we can do:
Start alerting everybody we know NOW as to what is coming down the road, and how the Administration is going to manipulate the public to get there.
All they have to do to bring back the draft is to call it "National Patriotic Service" and give you the choice of serving in the military or in a civilian capacity (the latter subject to availability).
All they have to do to bring back the draft is to call it "National Patriotic Service" and give you the choice of serving in the military or in a civilian capacity (the latter subject to availability).
And we can thank John Kerry for doing the right thing and conceding for the good of the country.
shumard | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 3:07 pm | #
As I've said many times before,
John Kerry=Senator Piece 'o Shit.
And we can thank John Kerry for doing the right thing and conceding for the good of the country.
shumard | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 3:07 pm | #
As I've said many times before,
John Kerry=Senator Piece 'o Shit.
"No war plans on the desk" is what I call the "credenza defense"
"No war plans on the desk" is what I call the "credenza defense"
Maybe I'm naive, but given that Iran just cut a deal to suspend the nuke program, and given that we're clearly militarily over-extended already, I don't actually an Iran incursion would be very likely.
cp | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 3:53 pm | #
--Ahh, but the mistake you have made is that you are still dealing in the world of real facts and rationality.
--Haven't you heard? According to the Administration, "we're an empire now. We make our own reality."
Maybe I'm naive, but given that Iran just cut a deal to suspend the nuke program, and given that we're clearly militarily over-extended already, I don't actually an Iran incursion would be very likely.
cp | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 3:53 pm | #
--Ahh, but the mistake you have made is that you are still dealing in the world of real facts and rationality.
--Haven't you heard? According to the Administration, "we're an empire now. We make our own reality."
I'm much too lazy to read all the comments so forgive me if this has been said upthread, as I'm sure it has, but we would have invaded Iran ages ago had the neo-cons been rigth about Iraq, because if they had been, we would have been able to leave just 25,000 or so troops behind in Iraq while the rest of the force moved on to Iran and/or Syria. But now there is no freaking way that we can invade Iran; we don't have the troops, period. The only options are bugging out of Iraq, waging nuclear war, or letting Sharon do it. Obviously Bush will never do #1, and no sane person would go for #2 or #3, so ... so....
OMFG!
I'm much too lazy to read all the comments so forgive me if this has been said upthread, as I'm sure it has, but we would have invaded Iran ages ago had the neo-cons been rigth about Iraq, because if they had been, we would have been able to leave just 25,000 or so troops behind in Iraq while the rest of the force moved on to Iran and/or Syria. But now there is no freaking way that we can invade Iran; we don't have the troops, period. The only options are bugging out of Iraq, waging nuclear war, or letting Sharon do it. Obviously Bush will never do #1, and no sane person would go for #2 or #3, so ... so....
OMFG!
Seems to me that unless Busco can get Irate to attack us we aren't going in. No amount of bullshit will float this time. No one will be able to sell the idea that Irate will be a cake walk this time.
Seems to me that unless Busco can get Irate to attack us we aren't going in. No amount of bullshit will float this time. No one will be able to sell the idea that Irate will be a cake walk this time.
CP--if Israel decides to attack the Iranian reactors pre-emptively, we may end up in the middle. We may not have a choice.
CP--if Israel decides to attack the Iranian reactors pre-emptively, we may end up in the middle. We may not have a choice.
If you think anything is going to change for the better in the next four years, you have not been paying attention. Two weeks after a monumental loss, and your own party is pissing all over you and all over itself in its rush to roll over and ask the the GOP to scratch its tummy.
Most. Pathetic. Political. Party. Ever!
If you think anything is going to change for the better in the next four years, you have not been paying attention. Two weeks after a monumental loss, and your own party is pissing all over you and all over itself in its rush to roll over and ask the the GOP to scratch its tummy.
Most. Pathetic. Political. Party. Ever!
Two weeks after a monumental loss, and your own party is pissing all over you and all over itself in its rush to roll over and ask the the GOP to scratch its tummy.
Most. Pathetic. Political. Party. Ever!
Mel
Why are you trying to demoralize the Bushist resistance, Mel?
Two weeks after a monumental loss, and your own party is pissing all over you and all over itself in its rush to roll over and ask the the GOP to scratch its tummy.
Most. Pathetic. Political. Party. Ever!
Mel
Why are you trying to demoralize the Bushist resistance, Mel?
What GN asked.
What GN asked.
Down with the Shah!
Down with the Shah!
Praise for Kenneth M. Pollack and The Threatening Storm
“Pollack manages to eschew the cant, stupidity, and obfuscation which are the common currency of much of the current public debate over Iraq policy and has produced one of the key books–probably the key book–for anyone trying to grapple with the Iraq question.”
–JOSHUA MICAH MARSHALL, The Washington Monthly
It can't be the same Josh Marshall, can it?
!
Praise for Kenneth M. Pollack and The Threatening Storm
“Pollack manages to eschew the cant, stupidity, and obfuscation which are the common currency of much of the current public debate over Iraq policy and has produced one of the key books–probably the key book–for anyone trying to grapple with the Iraq question.”
–JOSHUA MICAH MARSHALL, The Washington Monthly
It can't be the same Josh Marshall, can it?
!
It's just amazing to me that the Dems think that by asking the Repubs to play fair it is going to make it happen.
Maybe if they were to say please with sugar on top.......
It's just amazing to me that the Dems think that by asking the Repubs to play fair it is going to make it happen.
Maybe if they were to say please with sugar on top.......
It can't be the same Josh Marshall, can it?
You mean "Tokyo Josh"? Why can't it?
It can't be the same Josh Marshall, can it?
You mean "Tokyo Josh"? Why can't it?
Pollack was on The Daily Show whoring his new book. I started screaming "shenanigans" and my husband had to turn the TV off and help stop me from swallowing my tongue in one grand mal-aise seizure.
I was disappointed that Jon Stewart didn't call Kenny on his previous war-mongering. But, then again, I didn't make it through the whole five-minute appearance...
Had to go self-medicate and all.
Pollack was on The Daily Show whoring his new book. I started screaming "shenanigans" and my husband had to turn the TV off and help stop me from swallowing my tongue in one grand mal-aise seizure.
I was disappointed that Jon Stewart didn't call Kenny on his previous war-mongering. But, then again, I didn't make it through the whole five-minute appearance...
Had to go self-medicate and all.
How can the "Hat troll" contribute to a discussion that's not taking place. There's no discussion here. Just a left-wing echo chamber. But keep it up. I like having some entertainment when work gets too dull. Bush minions are going to set off a dirty bomb in an American city to justify invading Iran? (Coffee squirting through the nose) BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
How can the "Hat troll" contribute to a discussion that's not taking place. There's no discussion here. Just a left-wing echo chamber. But keep it up. I like having some entertainment when work gets too dull. Bush minions are going to set off a dirty bomb in an American city to justify invading Iran? (Coffee squirting through the nose) BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Can't invade Iran? Bwhahaha. You don't know how fucking insane Rumsfeld is capable of being. He's got enough aircraft to do cripple them right now. Sanctions, bombing, raids, invasion in that order. The 51% will lap it up as strategic genius.
Can't invade Iran? Bwhahaha. You don't know how fucking insane Rumsfeld is capable of being. He's got enough aircraft to do cripple them right now. Sanctions, bombing, raids, invasion in that order. The 51% will lap it up as strategic genius.
I just wonder, if/when Kerry does have the hard evidence to go on the attack about the election, and does, how many of the naysayers will chime in with "I knew he was a fighter all along!, Go Big John!"?
Can we please wait just one more month before we start "stabbing" Kerry in the back? At least until this "election theft" is official?
Patience, please.
I just wonder, if/when Kerry does have the hard evidence to go on the attack about the election, and does, how many of the naysayers will chime in with "I knew he was a fighter all along!, Go Big John!"?
Can we please wait just one more month before we start "stabbing" Kerry in the back? At least until this "election theft" is official?
Patience, please.
"I went to school with Ken Pollack. He is a tool and always has been."
Hey, NJG from NYC--then you probably know my college roommate, who also knew him in high school--she always called him "Kenny," though, and I get what small satisfaction I can by referring to him that way instead of as Ken or Kenneth... Okay, it's not much, but it's something...
"I went to school with Ken Pollack. He is a tool and always has been."
Hey, NJG from NYC--then you probably know my college roommate, who also knew him in high school--she always called him "Kenny," though, and I get what small satisfaction I can by referring to him that way instead of as Ken or Kenneth... Okay, it's not much, but it's something...
Kenneth Pollack (he's dropped the "M." ) only has one review on Amazon for his new book-- 5 stars.
That review looks so lonely.
!
Kenneth Pollack (he's dropped the "M." ) only has one review on Amazon for his new book-- 5 stars.
That review looks so lonely.
!
Why are books like that put in "non-fiction"?
Why are books like that put in "non-fiction"?
"And we can thank John Kerry for doing the right thing and conceding for the good of the country.
shumard | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 3:07 pm | #
As I've said many times before,
John Kerry=Senator Piece 'o Shit.
Jeremiah Elias "
Oh please - FDR could have been resurrected to run and the 59,054, 097 mental midgets in this country STILL would have voted for Monkey Boy.
Give me a break!
"And we can thank John Kerry for doing the right thing and conceding for the good of the country.
shumard | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 3:07 pm | #
As I've said many times before,
John Kerry=Senator Piece 'o Shit.
Jeremiah Elias "
Oh please - FDR could have been resurrected to run and the 59,054, 097 mental midgets in this country STILL would have voted for Monkey Boy.
Give me a break!
If and when we move against Iran, I wonder if the rest of the world at that point will put their foot down and say, "Enough. Let's impose economic sanctions upon them. Let's stop doing business with them. Let's stop propping up theie economy?"
And by the way, one serious terrorist attack, and the American people will be BEGGING Bush to go against Iran . . . especially when he is through, with the help of the corporate media, propagandizing them.
My only question: Is there anyway we can prevail upon the terrorists to attack the "red" areas and leave the "blue" ones alone?
If and when we move against Iran, I wonder if the rest of the world at that point will put their foot down and say, "Enough. Let's impose economic sanctions upon them. Let's stop doing business with them. Let's stop propping up theie economy?"
And by the way, one serious terrorist attack, and the American people will be BEGGING Bush to go against Iran . . . especially when he is through, with the help of the corporate media, propagandizing them.
My only question: Is there anyway we can prevail upon the terrorists to attack the "red" areas and leave the "blue" ones alone?
Is Ben Had on this thread too?
Is Ben Had on this thread too?
Oh please - FDR could have been resurrected to run and the 59,054, 097 mental midgets in this country STILL would have voted for Monkey Boy.
Give me a break!
Terry C | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 4:20 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Then, the logical implication of what you are saying is that there is NOTHING that we could have done differently, or even do now, that will make a difference.
Do realize that this is what you are saying?
Oh please - FDR could have been resurrected to run and the 59,054, 097 mental midgets in this country STILL would have voted for Monkey Boy.
Give me a break!
Terry C | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 4:20 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Then, the logical implication of what you are saying is that there is NOTHING that we could have done differently, or even do now, that will make a difference.
Do realize that this is what you are saying?
That doesn't seem like the Jeremiah Elias I've seen.
Namestealing mofos.
!
That doesn't seem like the Jeremiah Elias I've seen.
Namestealing mofos.
!
There won't be an invasion. It'll be an air war to destroy all known SAM sites and probable WMD sites followed by UN sanctions and inspections to cripple the population and insure there really aren't any WMDs.
Then we invade.
There won't be an invasion. It'll be an air war to destroy all known SAM sites and probable WMD sites followed by UN sanctions and inspections to cripple the population and insure there really aren't any WMDs.
Then we invade.
regressive
You're certainly squirting something out of somewhere.
Yawn. Get back to your "work".
regressive
You're certainly squirting something out of somewhere.
Yawn. Get back to your "work".
mike in pr
"...Four years from now you'll look back on the last two years with longing for the way things were before the shit really hit the fan."...
I hope you're wrong, but history seems to favor your argument:
"forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit"
mike in pr
"...Four years from now you'll look back on the last two years with longing for the way things were before the shit really hit the fan."...
I hope you're wrong, but history seems to favor your argument:
"forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit"
Is there really some reason why I should post things like maps to the oil fields, longterm analyses of Western interests and control over Iranian oil profits and, oh yes, long-term connexions and alliances between France and Iran? Or perhaps you'd like a little more information on the relationship between Russia and Iran, particularly, as our friend upthread notes, around the Caspian? Possibly something related to GODDAMN CHEVRON AND THE RESIDUUM OF THE OTHER SEVEN SISTERS AND THE BAKU FIELDS?
Of course the US is going to invade Iran. Or try anyway. Just as of course, not one single soul will be left in the 'Administration' by the time the 'plans' are formalised who has any consciousness that any of this has been tried before or what the consequences are?
Is there really some reason why I should post things like maps to the oil fields, longterm analyses of Western interests and control over Iranian oil profits and, oh yes, long-term connexions and alliances between France and Iran? Or perhaps you'd like a little more information on the relationship between Russia and Iran, particularly, as our friend upthread notes, around the Caspian? Possibly something related to GODDAMN CHEVRON AND THE RESIDUUM OF THE OTHER SEVEN SISTERS AND THE BAKU FIELDS?
Of course the US is going to invade Iran. Or try anyway. Just as of course, not one single soul will be left in the 'Administration' by the time the 'plans' are formalised who has any consciousness that any of this has been tried before or what the consequences are?
GWPADA--
Ha! It indeed looks like they're about to start from scratch again.
Wha?
Fuckers!
!
GWPADA--
Ha! It indeed looks like they're about to start from scratch again.
Wha?
Fuckers!
!
I forgot about the doodled "WMD plans."
Sadly, I shake my head.
I forgot about the doodled "WMD plans."
Sadly, I shake my head.
What are we going to invade Iran with? We don't have any troops left, remember?
What are we going to invade Iran with? We don't have any troops left, remember?
Steve,
I am not so sure lots of troops are planned... I think their gameplan - as far as they have one - may be to rely on airpower to destroy any nuclear sites.
I agree with this; I just wrote about an article I saw recently about just that
Steve,
I am not so sure lots of troops are planned... I think their gameplan - as far as they have one - may be to rely on airpower to destroy any nuclear sites.
I agree with this; I just wrote about an article I saw recently about just that
Air assault numbnut.
Air assault numbnut.
Uhhh ... I thought that Tom Friedman died ... choked on an olive in his car.
Uhhh ... I thought that Tom Friedman died ... choked on an olive in his car.
OT can we talk about Russa's new nuclear weapons that "no other nuclear power will have" can you say star wars atomic style?
OT can we talk about Russa's new nuclear weapons that "no other nuclear power will have" can you say star wars atomic style?
Does anyone know if Iran has any sort of airforce? Because we seem to be hooked on using air power against those countries that don't have any, while countries with modern armanents recognize us as the balsa-wood tiger that we are....
Does anyone know if Iran has any sort of airforce? Because we seem to be hooked on using air power against those countries that don't have any, while countries with modern armanents recognize us as the balsa-wood tiger that we are....
GWPDA--have you heard about the southern oil reserves (Venezuela, Nigeria, etc) getting more important as the middle-eastern ones die out?
Chavez and the FARC he may or may not be wholly responsible for must be stood up to!
GWPDA--have you heard about the southern oil reserves (Venezuela, Nigeria, etc) getting more important as the middle-eastern ones die out?
Chavez and the FARC he may or may not be wholly responsible for must be stood up to!
How long before Hugo Chavez is "worse than Hitler"?
How long before Hugo Chavez is "worse than Hitler"?
There won't be an invasion. It'll be an air war to destroy all known SAM sites and probable WMD sites followed by UN sanctions and inspections to cripple the population and insure there really aren't any WMDs.
Then we invade.
Iran has a population three times the size of Iraq's.
The majority of them were born after the Islamic revolution, and are of "fighting age."
Even with several months of sanctions, a ground war in Iran would be utterly insane. We simply don't have the numbers to deal with that.
And there's also the possibility (how likely, I wouldn't want to guess) that Pakistan would use their nukes to defend Iran...
I'm not saying that Nero and his crew won't try it. It would just be a catastrophically stupid idea several orders more crazy than invading Iraq was.
There won't be an invasion. It'll be an air war to destroy all known SAM sites and probable WMD sites followed by UN sanctions and inspections to cripple the population and insure there really aren't any WMDs.
Then we invade.
Iran has a population three times the size of Iraq's.
The majority of them were born after the Islamic revolution, and are of "fighting age."
Even with several months of sanctions, a ground war in Iran would be utterly insane. We simply don't have the numbers to deal with that.
And there's also the possibility (how likely, I wouldn't want to guess) that Pakistan would use their nukes to defend Iran...
I'm not saying that Nero and his crew won't try it. It would just be a catastrophically stupid idea several orders more crazy than invading Iraq was.
Atrios, that is one of the best posts you've ever written. It neatly encapsulates all the madness!
Atrios, that is one of the best posts you've ever written. It neatly encapsulates all the madness!
What's funny is that the wingnuts were marinating in conspiracy theory during the Clinton years. They had some doozies. The UN was going to depopulate the Midwest for the buffalo. President Clinton was going to refuse to leave the White House in 2000 and declare martial law. President Clinton was going to bring in cruel Gurkha police to beat up conservatives. And on and on. And now when faced with real crimes and corruption in the Bush adm., they just go neener neener conspiracy theory because it involves Bush not Clinton.
What's funny is that the wingnuts were marinating in conspiracy theory during the Clinton years. They had some doozies. The UN was going to depopulate the Midwest for the buffalo. President Clinton was going to refuse to leave the White House in 2000 and declare martial law. President Clinton was going to bring in cruel Gurkha police to beat up conservatives. And on and on. And now when faced with real crimes and corruption in the Bush adm., they just go neener neener conspiracy theory because it involves Bush not Clinton.
There was an article in the latest Atlantic Monthly by Fallows I just read. They ran a war game with Pollak as one of the participants for a possible war with Iran. In that game he, and all the others, thought that any military options against Iran looked like losers. So I don't think that he will be quite as insane this time.
There was an article in the latest Atlantic Monthly by Fallows I just read. They ran a war game with Pollak as one of the participants for a possible war with Iran. In that game he, and all the others, thought that any military options against Iran looked like losers. So I don't think that he will be quite as insane this time.
Iran's airforce
Iran's manpower
Iran's airforce
Iran's manpower
Dudes, we're not going to invade Iran. Yes, the mal-Administration is incredibly incompetent, and foolish, but Iran has a well-equipped military of over 500,000 and several million veterans from the Iran-Iraq war. Plus, their draftable population is something around 20 million (it's a much younger country than we are).
Remember, we didn't invade North Korea either. Why? Because Karl Rove/Cheney know that while the American people can yawn at 1,000-4,000 dead soldiers, they're not going to do the same for 50,000+. And yes, Iran could easily inflict 50,000 deaths on an American army (especially one fighting from exposed bases in Iraq). We probably can't deliver a 500,000 man army to the Middle East, and our current forces would be outnumbered 4-1 or 3-1.
Iran already essentially runs all parts of Iraq, so EVERY supply line and rear position could be under fire. We could be talking about mass surrenders of US troops if things went really bad.
Plus, Blair already told Bush to forget about any British support of the idea (the Brits are going to start to pull out of Iraq within the next 3 months anyway). Without Blair's support, it's not going to happen.
What are we going to do? If anything we're going to offer them a big-ass bribe, like we did with North Korea.
Dudes, we're not going to invade Iran. Yes, the mal-Administration is incredibly incompetent, and foolish, but Iran has a well-equipped military of over 500,000 and several million veterans from the Iran-Iraq war. Plus, their draftable population is something around 20 million (it's a much younger country than we are).
Remember, we didn't invade North Korea either. Why? Because Karl Rove/Cheney know that while the American people can yawn at 1,000-4,000 dead soldiers, they're not going to do the same for 50,000+. And yes, Iran could easily inflict 50,000 deaths on an American army (especially one fighting from exposed bases in Iraq). We probably can't deliver a 500,000 man army to the Middle East, and our current forces would be outnumbered 4-1 or 3-1.
Iran already essentially runs all parts of Iraq, so EVERY supply line and rear position could be under fire. We could be talking about mass surrenders of US troops if things went really bad.
Plus, Blair already told Bush to forget about any British support of the idea (the Brits are going to start to pull out of Iraq within the next 3 months anyway). Without Blair's support, it's not going to happen.
What are we going to do? If anything we're going to offer them a big-ass bribe, like we did with North Korea.
An American invasion of Iran is an impossibility. The US lacks the necessary troop strength for the foreseeable future. US forces are stretched to the max with just occupying Iraq. An Iranian invasion would require at least 5 divisions to ensure some sort of control once we drove into the country. We haven't got them and it would take at least two years before we could get them.
Further, logistics alone will place an invasion of Iran beyond American capability. Once we invade Iran, we place the Straits of Hormuz inside the war zone. Every freighter carrying supplies northbound into the Gulf will be targeted by Iran. The Iranians may even target southbound tankers in order to block the Straits. US forces would be crippled logistically. Of course, our current civilian leadership will be surprised by all of this when it occurs because of their brilliance and deep understanding.
An American invasion of Iran is an impossibility. The US lacks the necessary troop strength for the foreseeable future. US forces are stretched to the max with just occupying Iraq. An Iranian invasion would require at least 5 divisions to ensure some sort of control once we drove into the country. We haven't got them and it would take at least two years before we could get them.
Further, logistics alone will place an invasion of Iran beyond American capability. Once we invade Iran, we place the Straits of Hormuz inside the war zone. Every freighter carrying supplies northbound into the Gulf will be targeted by Iran. The Iranians may even target southbound tankers in order to block the Straits. US forces would be crippled logistically. Of course, our current civilian leadership will be surprised by all of this when it occurs because of their brilliance and deep understanding.
What PrahaPartizan said.
What PrahaPartizan said.
Prahga, it is so cute when you use logic to argue that Bush will not do something incredibly stupid.
Prahga, it is so cute when you use logic to argue that Bush will not do something incredibly stupid.
Shut up America haters, go crawl under a rock. The grownups and real heroes are saving you from the terrorists, and you can't be even a little grateful for your welfare check or your student loan? We don't wanna hear it.
Shut up America haters, go crawl under a rock. The grownups and real heroes are saving you from the terrorists, and you can't be even a little grateful for your welfare check or your student loan? We don't wanna hear it.
What's to stop Bush from pulling the troops out of Iraq (leaving them to their civil war *dusting off hands... we're done here!*)
and moving to the Iran front?
We left Afghanistan a holy mess, why not Iraq?
*
What's to stop Bush from pulling the troops out of Iraq (leaving them to their civil war *dusting off hands... we're done here!*)
and moving to the Iran front?
We left Afghanistan a holy mess, why not Iraq?
*
And yes, Iran could easily inflict 50,000 deaths on an American army (especially one fighting from exposed bases in Iraq).
Burritoboy--exposed to what? We have total air superiority. Total ground superiority.
Actually, I do think that Iran would be more amenable to a "regime change welcomed with flowers" than Iraq was (although it's much more sensible just to wait for them to do it themselves).
And yes, Iran could easily inflict 50,000 deaths on an American army (especially one fighting from exposed bases in Iraq).
Burritoboy--exposed to what? We have total air superiority. Total ground superiority.
Actually, I do think that Iran would be more amenable to a "regime change welcomed with flowers" than Iraq was (although it's much more sensible just to wait for them to do it themselves).
Jenny, if we did that I think that the rest of the ME would join the battle, surreptitously supported by "Old Europe", Russia, and China.
Jenny, if we did that I think that the rest of the ME would join the battle, surreptitously supported by "Old Europe", Russia, and China.
Christopher, for sure the average Irani is more pro-American, but I'm not so sure they'd appreciate an occupation.
Christopher, for sure the average Irani is more pro-American, but I'm not so sure they'd appreciate an occupation.
Ken Pollack needs a big fucking kick to the balls. I thought that before and i think that now.
Ken Pollack needs a big fucking kick to the balls. I thought that before and i think that now.
btw...
odds are, iranians have a nuke or two now.
btw...
odds are, iranians have a nuke or two now.
no imagination -
but don't you think our Condi, as SOS, would just smooth over any opposition. I mean, she's gonna be soooo good in her new job, Old Europe won't know what hit em!
*
no imagination -
but don't you think our Condi, as SOS, would just smooth over any opposition. I mean, she's gonna be soooo good in her new job, Old Europe won't know what hit em!
*
oy
oy
no imagination--agreed, but I'm speaking hypothetically. Occupations are never a good idea in practice.
no imagination--agreed, but I'm speaking hypothetically. Occupations are never a good idea in practice.
What another Bruce said.
*
What another Bruce said.
*
Christopher,
doubtful. invading Iran will be a hell-hole. For one, the Shiites in Iraq will openly fight us, and an overthrow of the House of Saud, and perhaps of Jordan, a good probability.
As for Iran, the majority of people would rally around the hardliners.
I always thought, even prior to 9/11, to get real reform in the Muslim world was to have the Iranian people throw off the shackles of the clerics themselves. But we can't do it for them anymore than France could do it for us in the 1770s.
Christopher,
doubtful. invading Iran will be a hell-hole. For one, the Shiites in Iraq will openly fight us, and an overthrow of the House of Saud, and perhaps of Jordan, a good probability.
As for Iran, the majority of people would rally around the hardliners.
I always thought, even prior to 9/11, to get real reform in the Muslim world was to have the Iranian people throw off the shackles of the clerics themselves. But we can't do it for them anymore than France could do it for us in the 1770s.
Christopher, I roger your last post.
Christopher, I roger your last post.
One of the things that has always struck me about invading Iraq is that they knew there were no weapons of mass destruction. I have thought from the start that they knew that and counted on it.
Iran, on the other hand, does have them.
If they invade Iran - well, Israel better hope that all the nukes are destroyed in a first strike, because otherwise...
One of the things that has always struck me about invading Iraq is that they knew there were no weapons of mass destruction. I have thought from the start that they knew that and counted on it.
Iran, on the other hand, does have them.
If they invade Iran - well, Israel better hope that all the nukes are destroyed in a first strike, because otherwise...
And let's not forget that Iran has had a great window into our "strategic thinking" and plans for a while now, thanks to that guy on the receiving line -- you know, the one who was such a good source for Judith Miller -- damn, his name is right on the tip of my tongue . . .
And let's not forget that Iran has had a great window into our "strategic thinking" and plans for a while now, thanks to that guy on the receiving line -- you know, the one who was such a good source for Judith Miller -- damn, his name is right on the tip of my tongue . . .
Jenny, you made me smile, I like your sarcasm.
Really, after what Colin did, I don't doubt that Condi will get eaten alive by "Old Europe," she has zero credentials or any previous international goodwill. She is going to be seen for what she is- a lackey.
Jenny, you made me smile, I like your sarcasm.
Really, after what Colin did, I don't doubt that Condi will get eaten alive by "Old Europe," she has zero credentials or any previous international goodwill. She is going to be seen for what she is- a lackey.
Nice piece of writing Atrois. true too.
Nice piece of writing Atrois. true too.
Condi would need a promotion to be a lackey. She's more like a stooge, now.
Condi would need a promotion to be a lackey. She's more like a stooge, now.
Tim, now THAT had me LOL. Is she Larry, Moe, Curly, or Shemp? Or is that comparison an insult to true stooges?
Tim, now THAT had me LOL. Is she Larry, Moe, Curly, or Shemp? Or is that comparison an insult to true stooges?
How about we invade Israel? I would support invading Israel over invading Iran. When do we get started?
How about we invade Israel? I would support invading Israel over invading Iran. When do we get started?
Who the fuck is Ken Pollak and why should anybody be listening to him?
Who the fuck is Ken Pollak and why should anybody be listening to him?
Stunt Woman:
How about we invade Israel?
No, that's no good. They ALREADY have WMD.
Stunt Woman:
How about we invade Israel?
No, that's no good. They ALREADY have WMD.
Hmmm Israel has been defying the UN general assembly and Security council for quite some time now, they have a secret nuke program, on several occassions committed illegal acts of war, and have killed lots of innocent people.
According to our own unilateralist criteria, I'd say they're ripe for invasion.
Hmmm Israel has been defying the UN general assembly and Security council for quite some time now, they have a secret nuke program, on several occassions committed illegal acts of war, and have killed lots of innocent people.
According to our own unilateralist criteria, I'd say they're ripe for invasion.
Me neither.
Me neither.
According to our own unilateralist criteria, I'd say [Israel's] ripe for invasion.
Not to mention we already have our Gulf of Tonkin incident in the attack on the USS Liberty, Israel's been spying on us, selling weapons technology to our allies, etc.
Blasting Israel would be an easy sell.
.
According to our own unilateralist criteria, I'd say [Israel's] ripe for invasion.
Not to mention we already have our Gulf of Tonkin incident in the attack on the USS Liberty, Israel's been spying on us, selling weapons technology to our allies, etc.
Blasting Israel would be an easy sell.
.
Who the fuck is Ken Pollak and why should anybody be listening to him?
he's an expert on 'tea-bagging'
.
Who the fuck is Ken Pollak and why should anybody be listening to him?
he's an expert on 'tea-bagging'
.
i was told by the son of a high ranking cia officer that an invasion was very likely, and that the plans have been well developed for some time.
anecdotes aside, i confess i really don't see how they could do it. the NK model seems about right to me, but then again there is all that oil. i think the military leadership would be in an uproar if the admin tried anything in the near future, given how poorly things are going in the 'easy' country next door and how stupid it would be from a strategic perspective.
but i will never again underestimate the insane, 'reality creating' nature of the bush admin again. they seem to be capable of anything, and the track record so far suggests they will at least try. bombing seems like the most likely first step to me.
but what will Old Europe and China make of that, i wonder.
i was told by the son of a high ranking cia officer that an invasion was very likely, and that the plans have been well developed for some time.
anecdotes aside, i confess i really don't see how they could do it. the NK model seems about right to me, but then again there is all that oil. i think the military leadership would be in an uproar if the admin tried anything in the near future, given how poorly things are going in the 'easy' country next door and how stupid it would be from a strategic perspective.
but i will never again underestimate the insane, 'reality creating' nature of the bush admin again. they seem to be capable of anything, and the track record so far suggests they will at least try. bombing seems like the most likely first step to me.
but what will Old Europe and China make of that, i wonder.
Grand Moff, I agree, a mere matter of framing the issues by fanning the flames of hysteria and fear.
Grand Moff, I agree, a mere matter of framing the issues by fanning the flames of hysteria and fear.
but what will Old Europe and China make of that, i wonder.- chicago dyke
That we are deluded and need to be stopped.
but what will Old Europe and China make of that, i wonder.- chicago dyke
That we are deluded and need to be stopped.
I said this over at Kevin Drum's. I am the mother of an 18 year-old son. they're not Goddamn taking my son for another worthless war!!
They're not!!
I said this over at Kevin Drum's. I am the mother of an 18 year-old son. they're not Goddamn taking my son for another worthless war!!
They're not!!
Hey look, I found a column by Ken Pollack. But I suggest that it be retitled:
KEN POLLACK = PWN3D
http://www.brook.edu/views/articles/pollack/
20040628.htm
Hey look, I found a column by Ken Pollack. But I suggest that it be retitled:
KEN POLLACK = PWN3D
http://www.brook.edu/views/articles/pollack/
20040628.htm
PrahaPartizan, well stated, but keep in mind that there are no adults in the civilian leadership, they're all incomptenent dolts, and they'll order an invasion anyway.
At this point the generals should call in the Rangers backed by some armor and remove the civilian "leadership" permanently.
PrahaPartizan, well stated, but keep in mind that there are no adults in the civilian leadership, they're all incomptenent dolts, and they'll order an invasion anyway.
At this point the generals should call in the Rangers backed by some armor and remove the civilian "leadership" permanently.
Then, the logical implication of what you are saying is that there is NOTHING that we could have done differently, or even do now, that will make a difference.
Do realize that this is what you are saying?
Jeremiah Elias
There never was anything anyone could do, short of turning one of the coup plotters into a whistleblower.
The fascists have been planning this since 2000, and perfecting it since 2002.
The implications are simple yet profound: no sane person should ever again trust the reported results of any election anywhere in the US again. The franchise is an empty farce, the Courts are are corrupted by partisanship; the Congress is owned--lock, stock and barrel--by private, corporate interests; the President is a psychotic sock-puppet, and the Vice-President is a murderous thug...
Implication? We are well and truly fucked...
Then, the logical implication of what you are saying is that there is NOTHING that we could have done differently, or even do now, that will make a difference.
Do realize that this is what you are saying?
Jeremiah Elias
There never was anything anyone could do, short of turning one of the coup plotters into a whistleblower.
The fascists have been planning this since 2000, and perfecting it since 2002.
The implications are simple yet profound: no sane person should ever again trust the reported results of any election anywhere in the US again. The franchise is an empty farce, the Courts are are corrupted by partisanship; the Congress is owned--lock, stock and barrel--by private, corporate interests; the President is a psychotic sock-puppet, and the Vice-President is a murderous thug...
Implication? We are well and truly fucked...
Israel has a standing army and a very well-equipped, well trained Air Force. We equipped and trained them. The are also school in the harsh realities of war and would probably kick the holy crap out of us.
Israel has a standing army and a very well-equipped, well trained Air Force. We equipped and trained them. The are also school in the harsh realities of war and would probably kick the holy crap out of us.
The are also school in the harsh realities of war and would probably kick the holy crap out of us.
Yes, those who talk of war in Israel confuse the Woody Allan nebbish goofball with the ass-kicking Israeli commando.
The are also school in the harsh realities of war and would probably kick the holy crap out of us.
Yes, those who talk of war in Israel confuse the Woody Allan nebbish goofball with the ass-kicking Israeli commando.
The[y] are also school in the harsh realities of war and would probably kick the holy crap out of us.
Until we flipped the switch that activates the circuitry that disables all of the munitions we sold them.
In a sane world, wouldn't such a killswitch be built into every weapon we exported?
The[y] are also school in the harsh realities of war and would probably kick the holy crap out of us.
Until we flipped the switch that activates the circuitry that disables all of the munitions we sold them.
In a sane world, wouldn't such a killswitch be built into every weapon we exported?
Steve:
The notion of a sane world evaporated shortly after December 2000.
Steve:
The notion of a sane world evaporated shortly after December 2000.
The question is, are Marshall, Drum, That Idiot Ezra, and the rest of the Handwringing Moderate Capitulators gonna start sucking Pollack's cock again and "tut-tutting" everyone who doesn't? Esp. those dirty hippies protesting again in the streets... how uncouth!
The question is, are Marshall, Drum, That Idiot Ezra, and the rest of the Handwringing Moderate Capitulators gonna start sucking Pollack's cock again and "tut-tutting" everyone who doesn't? Esp. those dirty hippies protesting again in the streets... how uncouth!
Its a simple process of elimination. If we keep killing all the innocent muslims, then eventually the ones responsible for 9/11 will be the only ones left. Then they'll be easy to find.
Its a simple process of elimination. If we keep killing all the innocent muslims, then eventually the ones responsible for 9/11 will be the only ones left. Then they'll be easy to find.
You know, "Iranian college students" have overthrown their government before... oh, wait, that didn't work out so well for the US, did it?
You know, "Iranian college students" have overthrown their government before... oh, wait, that didn't work out so well for the US, did it?
I'll be overjoyed when the first Islamic country has nukes that are deliverable over most of the Middle East and with a high degree of survivability in an American or Israeli preemptive strike.
As Alex Cockburn said, the UN ought to be distributing a half-dozen of the things to every country in the world.
There's nothing like a little deterrence to restrain a would-be hegemon.
I'll be overjoyed when the first Islamic country has nukes that are deliverable over most of the Middle East and with a high degree of survivability in an American or Israeli preemptive strike.
As Alex Cockburn said, the UN ought to be distributing a half-dozen of the things to every country in the world.
There's nothing like a little deterrence to restrain a would-be hegemon.
Kevin Carson - I've often thought how truly insane it is that the US has more nuclear weapons than anyone else in the world and they are the ones telling the little countries that they can't have them.
I've always thought that that was really cock-eyed.
Wouldn't that work better coming from a neutral party?
Kevin Carson - I've often thought how truly insane it is that the US has more nuclear weapons than anyone else in the world and they are the ones telling the little countries that they can't have them.
I've always thought that that was really cock-eyed.
Wouldn't that work better coming from a neutral party?
kevin - or is it just really a way of saying:
"Drop your gun or I'll shoot!"?
kevin - or is it just really a way of saying:
"Drop your gun or I'll shoot!"?
We'd love to help, but appeasement is so warm and moist, it feels just like sitting in a tub full of piss while our enemies get even stronger.
We'll fight back, count every vote...unless Bush frowns.
Even now, the Dem party (I'm a lifelong member) withholds the funds COLLECTED SPECIFICALLY FOR RECOUNTS, prefering to dine on duck, while the kids and grandfathers-in-uniform (and all the civilians) just duck.
Recount, and impeachment efforts on the grand scale, are our only hope. But let's select some soggy toast from our bathtub of piss. Since we're going to be sitting here, might as well eat.
--
We'd love to help, but appeasement is so warm and moist, it feels just like sitting in a tub full of piss while our enemies get even stronger.
We'll fight back, count every vote...unless Bush frowns.
Even now, the Dem party (I'm a lifelong member) withholds the funds COLLECTED SPECIFICALLY FOR RECOUNTS, prefering to dine on duck, while the kids and grandfathers-in-uniform (and all the civilians) just duck.
Recount, and impeachment efforts on the grand scale, are our only hope. But let's select some soggy toast from our bathtub of piss. Since we're going to be sitting here, might as well eat.
--
"We'll have endless weepy tributes to "Iranian college students" who will overthrow the government by Crazy Andy and Tom Friedman."
If only that could happen here.
Yet if tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of college students rose up against the government they'd be called 'terrorists' and 'anarchists', 'Traitors' or worsse. Their activities would earn them the death penalty or life imprisonment at best. They'd be scorned and labeled 'america haters.'
Perhaps even called 'liberals' even though they themselves might be moderate or conservative.
MYOB'
.
"We'll have endless weepy tributes to "Iranian college students" who will overthrow the government by Crazy Andy and Tom Friedman."
If only that could happen here.
Yet if tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of college students rose up against the government they'd be called 'terrorists' and 'anarchists', 'Traitors' or worsse. Their activities would earn them the death penalty or life imprisonment at best. They'd be scorned and labeled 'america haters.'
Perhaps even called 'liberals' even though they themselves might be moderate or conservative.
MYOB'
.
"Wouldn't that work better coming from a neutral party?'--Tena
It would work better COMING FROM A DEMOCRACY.
--
"Wouldn't that work better coming from a neutral party?'--Tena
It would work better COMING FROM A DEMOCRACY.
--
Re Israel, some cynic wrote
"The are also school in the harsh realities of war and would probably kick the holy crap out of us."
That hasn't stopped us from invading countries before. It's not whether we win or lose the invasion, it's how good it looks on TV.
Seriously, Israel is one of the most annoying theocracies on the planet. And their folk music blows. I'd favor invading Israel over Iran any day.
Re Israel, some cynic wrote
"The are also school in the harsh realities of war and would probably kick the holy crap out of us."
That hasn't stopped us from invading countries before. It's not whether we win or lose the invasion, it's how good it looks on TV.
Seriously, Israel is one of the most annoying theocracies on the planet. And their folk music blows. I'd favor invading Israel over Iran any day.
Pelosi quoting bible scripture.
Anti-abortion Reid leading the Senate Dems.
Accomodationist Daschle - pwned!
Attempt to install appeaser Tom Vilsack to replace appeaser Terry McAuliffe.
Statements that Alberto Gonzalez would make a fine AG.
Appeasement. Appeasement. Appeasement.
Can we stop calling this a viable party yet?
Pelosi quoting bible scripture.
Anti-abortion Reid leading the Senate Dems.
Accomodationist Daschle - pwned!
Attempt to install appeaser Tom Vilsack to replace appeaser Terry McAuliffe.
Statements that Alberto Gonzalez would make a fine AG.
Appeasement. Appeasement. Appeasement.
Can we stop calling this a viable party yet?
"In a sane world, wouldn't such a killswitch be built into every weapon we exported?"--Steve
The kill switch is built in, otherwise they wouldn't buy them.
Just before the German invasion, the French sold 400 tanks (of better design than the Germans, yet) to Yugoslavia, leaving themselves 90 for the invasion.
They also sold a considerable amount of artillery, complete with ammo.
Fighting fascism is easier if you sign all the capitulation papers in a steady hand.
DNC to America: "Stay the course!"
--
"In a sane world, wouldn't such a killswitch be built into every weapon we exported?"--Steve
The kill switch is built in, otherwise they wouldn't buy them.
Just before the German invasion, the French sold 400 tanks (of better design than the Germans, yet) to Yugoslavia, leaving themselves 90 for the invasion.
They also sold a considerable amount of artillery, complete with ammo.
Fighting fascism is easier if you sign all the capitulation papers in a steady hand.
DNC to America: "Stay the course!"
--
"Can we stop calling this a viable party yet?"--Sorass
I agree, S, but your idea that this makes the Dem party, our only bulwark, a non-viable party is hilarious and dumb as dry shit.
WE have to force the Dems to do what they must.
Continued Leftish theories of a third party transformation are otherwise known as 'shooting yourself in the other foot' to make the pain of the first shot less intense.
Recounts, vote fraud investigation and expressions of outrage to the cowering media, and IMPEACHMENT.
The party, including Pelosi (quoting the Bible isn't exactly unknown in the Congress) and the others who would prefer a stronger course, is about all we've got, that and the grassroots.
--
"Can we stop calling this a viable party yet?"--Sorass
I agree, S, but your idea that this makes the Dem party, our only bulwark, a non-viable party is hilarious and dumb as dry shit.
WE have to force the Dems to do what they must.
Continued Leftish theories of a third party transformation are otherwise known as 'shooting yourself in the other foot' to make the pain of the first shot less intense.
Recounts, vote fraud investigation and expressions of outrage to the cowering media, and IMPEACHMENT.
The party, including Pelosi (quoting the Bible isn't exactly unknown in the Congress) and the others who would prefer a stronger course, is about all we've got, that and the grassroots.
--
I've got a great idea: Wouldn't it be great if the US stopped letting the world know that it is incapable of subduing even impoverished third-world shitholes?
I used to find it vaguely comforting to think that the US Military had it "goin' on", as we hipsters say. You know, the "world's policeman" and all that jazz. Heavy-weight Champeen of da World!
But I just can't see how yet another invasion of yet another dusty mud-hut is going to make them look any less disorganised, under-resourced, ill-trained, ineffective and pathetic.
I've got a great idea: Wouldn't it be great if the US stopped letting the world know that it is incapable of subduing even impoverished third-world shitholes?
I used to find it vaguely comforting to think that the US Military had it "goin' on", as we hipsters say. You know, the "world's policeman" and all that jazz. Heavy-weight Champeen of da World!
But I just can't see how yet another invasion of yet another dusty mud-hut is going to make them look any less disorganised, under-resourced, ill-trained, ineffective and pathetic.
Believe it or not, USPNAC has to follow the rules of Skull-n-bones, so next they HAVE TO attack (or get to capitulate) Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen.
Then, once the peninsula is 'secure,' then they get to blow the shit out of Tehran from the 16 Iraqi airbases, probably with small nukes they want to test out.
Once Iran is a smoking hulk, they mop up Sudan, and Somalia, and then, surrounded and in the middle of a civil war, Saudi Arabia will be split down the middle, and a new Oilrabia created on the (previously 'Persian') Gulf, run by Shiites for Chevron.
What do you want to bet that the Gulf will be renamed after King Georgie?
--
Believe it or not, USPNAC has to follow the rules of Skull-n-bones, so next they HAVE TO attack (or get to capitulate) Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen.
Then, once the peninsula is 'secure,' then they get to blow the shit out of Tehran from the 16 Iraqi airbases, probably with small nukes they want to test out.
Once Iran is a smoking hulk, they mop up Sudan, and Somalia, and then, surrounded and in the middle of a civil war, Saudi Arabia will be split down the middle, and a new Oilrabia created on the (previously 'Persian') Gulf, run by Shiites for Chevron.
What do you want to bet that the Gulf will be renamed after King Georgie?
--
"look any less disorganised, under-resourced, ill-trained, ineffective and pathetic."
That's intentional, don't buy into it.
USPNAC wants an all 'volunteer' (=merc) army, and only wants the US military for low paid cannon fodder and training.
They are rapidly destroying the basis for the UCMJ, which is a major goal for them. Destroying troop morale is key to expanding war crime to a level that cannot be prosecuted without destroying the credibility of the entire military.
These boys are geniuses in their malignity and hate for America and everything previously part of it.
--
"look any less disorganised, under-resourced, ill-trained, ineffective and pathetic."
That's intentional, don't buy into it.
USPNAC wants an all 'volunteer' (=merc) army, and only wants the US military for low paid cannon fodder and training.
They are rapidly destroying the basis for the UCMJ, which is a major goal for them. Destroying troop morale is key to expanding war crime to a level that cannot be prosecuted without destroying the credibility of the entire military.
These boys are geniuses in their malignity and hate for America and everything previously part of it.
--
"by Shiites for Chevron."
No, I think that's Shia's for Chevron.
--
"by Shiites for Chevron."
No, I think that's Shia's for Chevron.
--
Can't all the disaffected by the dark powers and fools go and form some country that resides on reason?
Yeah I thought not.
Can't all the disaffected by the dark powers and fools go and form some country that resides on reason?
Yeah I thought not.
Tena,
My impression of the real motives behind non-proliferation is that back in the '60s, the U.S. government decided that nukes should be monopolized by the US and USSR. After all, the Soviets were basically just bureaucratic white men in business suits, like us, who could be reasoned with. So long as we could work out an arrangement to divide up the world between ourselves, everything was A-OK. But for the Yellow Peril to acquire nuclear weapons, or those little brown wogs in the global South... Egad!
Come to think of it, that's pretty much the same rationale behind the five permanent members of the UN Security Council.
Tena,
My impression of the real motives behind non-proliferation is that back in the '60s, the U.S. government decided that nukes should be monopolized by the US and USSR. After all, the Soviets were basically just bureaucratic white men in business suits, like us, who could be reasoned with. So long as we could work out an arrangement to divide up the world between ourselves, everything was A-OK. But for the Yellow Peril to acquire nuclear weapons, or those little brown wogs in the global South... Egad!
Come to think of it, that's pretty much the same rationale behind the five permanent members of the UN Security Council.
"My impression of the real motives behind non-proliferation is that back in the '60s, the U.S. government decided that nukes should be monopolized by the US and USSR."
In the 60s the US and the USSR were involved in a conspiracy? What an absurd idea.
Non-proliferation is a positive aspect of American power. Kerry was right, and his promise to further reduce nukes was also right.
Next you will tell us that racism was a strategy for reducing immigration.
--
"My impression of the real motives behind non-proliferation is that back in the '60s, the U.S. government decided that nukes should be monopolized by the US and USSR."
In the 60s the US and the USSR were involved in a conspiracy? What an absurd idea.
Non-proliferation is a positive aspect of American power. Kerry was right, and his promise to further reduce nukes was also right.
Next you will tell us that racism was a strategy for reducing immigration.
--
check out the gallery at www.sorryeverybody.com if you've got some time. it is growing exponentially.
check out the gallery at www.sorryeverybody.com if you've got some time. it is growing exponentially.
No "conspiracy" is required. Only an ideological mindset that nukes should be monopolized by the Great Powers Club--just like control of the UN Security Council. As far as I'm concerned, the term "conspiracy" is just a conversation-stopper.
"Next you will tell us that racism was a strategy for reducing immigration."
Huh?
No "conspiracy" is required. Only an ideological mindset that nukes should be monopolized by the Great Powers Club--just like control of the UN Security Council. As far as I'm concerned, the term "conspiracy" is just a conversation-stopper.
"Next you will tell us that racism was a strategy for reducing immigration."
Huh?
No rational administration would invade Iran. As many people have pointed out on this thread and elsewhre, we simply do not have the necessary military power and our ideological position is even weaker. The only way of making up the difference between our chest-thumping ambitions and our very modest capabilities is to resort to nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, the only thing that prevents such a horror is the presumption that we would never do perpetrate such a grotesque and stupid crime. In other words, there is a distinct possibility that we or the Israelis will push the button in the next couple of years.
George Bush is simply the most dangerous man who ever walked the face of the Earth. We not only owe it to our nation to oppose him. We owe it to our species.
No rational administration would invade Iran. As many people have pointed out on this thread and elsewhre, we simply do not have the necessary military power and our ideological position is even weaker. The only way of making up the difference between our chest-thumping ambitions and our very modest capabilities is to resort to nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, the only thing that prevents such a horror is the presumption that we would never do perpetrate such a grotesque and stupid crime. In other words, there is a distinct possibility that we or the Israelis will push the button in the next couple of years.
George Bush is simply the most dangerous man who ever walked the face of the Earth. We not only owe it to our nation to oppose him. We owe it to our species.
For what it's worth ... others can perhaps better debate this than I ... but there are "rumours on the internets" that there may be links (more fundamental ones) between the war in Iraq and the "monetary war" being waged currently between the Euro and the US Dollar. It would seem that Saddam's Iraq, Iran and possibly North Korea (yes, Them!)had accepted the principle of linking their currency to the Euro instead of the US dollar. And since Saddam had apparently a deal with China to help exploit the country's oil industry, perhaps China too would have eventually gone the Euro way! I find this quite plausible since that would finally explain the "enthusiasm" of Tony Blair to support the Iraq war: the UK & the US (and Australia?) share the same model in terms of capital market, distinct from the European or Asian models.
For what it's worth ... others can perhaps better debate this than I ... but there are "rumours on the internets" that there may be links (more fundamental ones) between the war in Iraq and the "monetary war" being waged currently between the Euro and the US Dollar. It would seem that Saddam's Iraq, Iran and possibly North Korea (yes, Them!)had accepted the principle of linking their currency to the Euro instead of the US dollar. And since Saddam had apparently a deal with China to help exploit the country's oil industry, perhaps China too would have eventually gone the Euro way! I find this quite plausible since that would finally explain the "enthusiasm" of Tony Blair to support the Iraq war: the UK & the US (and Australia?) share the same model in terms of capital market, distinct from the European or Asian models.
Random thought on "conspiracy": what the fuck has driven the best and the brightest for the past few centuries, especially in the twilight of the empires (tread Fromkin's Peace to End All Peace: millions led, literally, by a fucking conspiracy theory; Sykes et al convinced that Masonic Jews are running everything, etc) and of course the cold war (that would be your Kremlinologist ilk, Condoleeeeza!), the entire cold war was one theory atfer another about Moscow being behind Martin Luther King, Italian violence, Arab unrest, Vietnamese aggression against Oklahoma, everything. The most asinine drivel in the mouths of the think tankers becomes gospel and reasonable and a basis for military operations.
Random thought on "conspiracy": what the fuck has driven the best and the brightest for the past few centuries, especially in the twilight of the empires (tread Fromkin's Peace to End All Peace: millions led, literally, by a fucking conspiracy theory; Sykes et al convinced that Masonic Jews are running everything, etc) and of course the cold war (that would be your Kremlinologist ilk, Condoleeeeza!), the entire cold war was one theory atfer another about Moscow being behind Martin Luther King, Italian violence, Arab unrest, Vietnamese aggression against Oklahoma, everything. The most asinine drivel in the mouths of the think tankers becomes gospel and reasonable and a basis for military operations.
I don't think this one is even remotely feasible. The war in Iraq will suck up too many military assets. The irony is that I've been convinced for the past year that the big winner of America's Iraq war will be the Iranians. Given the Chalabi tranjectory, if I were prone to conspiracy theories, I'd suggest that the Iranians helped suck us into the Iraq vortex. Ten years and a (hopefully) somehwhat less fanatical Iranian regime, in tandem with a Shiite dominated Iraq (or most of Iraq) will control the Gulf. And nobody will be thanking us - we'll still be trying to cover our asses for all of the crackpot mistakes and incompetence of our current regime.
That's my bet - I'm no expert - but I called the situtaion in the Soviet Union back int the eighties and the "WMD threat" better than these assholes, so I'll trust my amateur "informed common sense" over their alleged expertise any day of the week.
The elevation of Condi to Powell's perch is, incidentally, one of the most blatant, putrid rewards for incompetence and mafia-style loyalty I can recall in recent history.
I don't think this one is even remotely feasible. The war in Iraq will suck up too many military assets. The irony is that I've been convinced for the past year that the big winner of America's Iraq war will be the Iranians. Given the Chalabi tranjectory, if I were prone to conspiracy theories, I'd suggest that the Iranians helped suck us into the Iraq vortex. Ten years and a (hopefully) somehwhat less fanatical Iranian regime, in tandem with a Shiite dominated Iraq (or most of Iraq) will control the Gulf. And nobody will be thanking us - we'll still be trying to cover our asses for all of the crackpot mistakes and incompetence of our current regime.
That's my bet - I'm no expert - but I called the situtaion in the Soviet Union back int the eighties and the "WMD threat" better than these assholes, so I'll trust my amateur "informed common sense" over their alleged expertise any day of the week.
The elevation of Condi to Powell's perch is, incidentally, one of the most blatant, putrid rewards for incompetence and mafia-style loyalty I can recall in recent history.
Brief clarification: yes, Masonic Jews. It's not enough that they be either, they have to be both. Grteat Britain, having gotten good and scared over conspiracy theories about Russia, decides to look at the dying Ottoman Empire, which is being propped up by these semilegal societies of reforming "Young Turks." The Young Turks are connected by secret organizations and lodges, some of which are Masonic. As far as Jews running an empire singularly not known for its philosemitism...that's just kind of straight out of lurid late Victorian English upper class paranoia.
Brief clarification: yes, Masonic Jews. It's not enough that they be either, they have to be both. Grteat Britain, having gotten good and scared over conspiracy theories about Russia, decides to look at the dying Ottoman Empire, which is being propped up by these semilegal societies of reforming "Young Turks." The Young Turks are connected by secret organizations and lodges, some of which are Masonic. As far as Jews running an empire singularly not known for its philosemitism...that's just kind of straight out of lurid late Victorian English upper class paranoia.
O.K., it's been a while. Most of you probably don't remember me, or don't care. Well, I care about y'all, because, folks, y'all, my wife, a couple of flesh and blood (non-internet) friends and the people who post comments on dailykos are about the only non-insane people I know - so I care about you.
Anyway, this from Atrios needs to be carved in stone and set up somewhere important where we won't forget about it someday (probably soon)(kind of like the stone in "One Tin Soldier" -- oooooooh, skins crawls):
"Rumsfeld will deny that there are any "war plans on his desk," giggling as our press fails to note that he neither bothers to make any plans nor does he actually use a desk."
It's good because, sadly, it's just as true as it is creepy. Copy this quote to friends all over the internet, e-mail it high and low, you get the picture. It's freaking scary. But at least we know we have a half-baked Sovietologist who's gonna run our foreign service over the next 4 years. Uh, btw Condi, planes CAN be used as missles...
.
O.K., it's been a while. Most of you probably don't remember me, or don't care. Well, I care about y'all, because, folks, y'all, my wife, a couple of flesh and blood (non-internet) friends and the people who post comments on dailykos are about the only non-insane people I know - so I care about you.
Anyway, this from Atrios needs to be carved in stone and set up somewhere important where we won't forget about it someday (probably soon)(kind of like the stone in "One Tin Soldier" -- oooooooh, skins crawls):
"Rumsfeld will deny that there are any "war plans on his desk," giggling as our press fails to note that he neither bothers to make any plans nor does he actually use a desk."
It's good because, sadly, it's just as true as it is creepy. Copy this quote to friends all over the internet, e-mail it high and low, you get the picture. It's freaking scary. But at least we know we have a half-baked Sovietologist who's gonna run our foreign service over the next 4 years. Uh, btw Condi, planes CAN be used as missles...
.
"No "conspiracy" is required."
What you say would require a conspiracy.
"Only an ideological mindset that nukes should be monopolized by the Great Powers Club--just like control of the UN Security Council.
Control of the UNSC is due primarily to the Western hegemony that CREATED the UN. No great surprise there.
"As far as I'm concerned, the term "conspiracy" is just a conversation-stopper."
The term has an actual meaning, and I was using it in the sense of that meaning. Clearly, you don't believe in the Cold War, if you believe the US conspired with the USSR to control nukes between themselves. Quite clearly, we have been trying to reduce the number of Soviet nukes ever since, not share them among ourselves as dictators over the earth.
Non-proliferation is not a conspiracy; it's an excellent idea.
"Next you will tell us that racism was a strategy for reducing immigration."
Huh?
Kevin Carson"
Cart before the horse arguments. First there was racism; first there were nukes. Racism wasn't a strategy for reducing immigration, and nuclear non-proliferation treaties were not strategies of world dominance. They were and are attempts to restrict such weapons to societies that will not themselves proliferate or use them.
Obviously, the USPNAC alliance with Pakistan, for instance, is an example of the failure of such strategies, and the idea of non-proliferation is becoming passe, to our great horror.
--
"No "conspiracy" is required."
What you say would require a conspiracy.
"Only an ideological mindset that nukes should be monopolized by the Great Powers Club--just like control of the UN Security Council.
Control of the UNSC is due primarily to the Western hegemony that CREATED the UN. No great surprise there.
"As far as I'm concerned, the term "conspiracy" is just a conversation-stopper."
The term has an actual meaning, and I was using it in the sense of that meaning. Clearly, you don't believe in the Cold War, if you believe the US conspired with the USSR to control nukes between themselves. Quite clearly, we have been trying to reduce the number of Soviet nukes ever since, not share them among ourselves as dictators over the earth.
Non-proliferation is not a conspiracy; it's an excellent idea.
"Next you will tell us that racism was a strategy for reducing immigration."
Huh?
Kevin Carson"
Cart before the horse arguments. First there was racism; first there were nukes. Racism wasn't a strategy for reducing immigration, and nuclear non-proliferation treaties were not strategies of world dominance. They were and are attempts to restrict such weapons to societies that will not themselves proliferate or use them.
Obviously, the USPNAC alliance with Pakistan, for instance, is an example of the failure of such strategies, and the idea of non-proliferation is becoming passe, to our great horror.
--
"I don't think this one is even remotely feasible. The war in Iraq will suck up too many military assets."
The destruction of Iraq is well on its way, and the airbases are in, their polymer concrete airfields are large enough for our biggest cargo planes, and the USPNAC has little compunction about nuking Iran off the map, if necessary.
If you're going to whistle as you pass the graveyard, you might as well whistle Dixie, because the racism driving USPNAC has ZERO compunction about killing Arabs OR Persians (as might be determined by the considerable assistance, including chemical weapons, that the militarist rightwing gave Hussein in the 80s).
" The irony is that I've been convinced for the past year that the big winner of America's Iraq war will be the Iranians."
How 16 armed-to-the-teeth(-with-nukes) airbases within minutes of their capitol is to their advantage remains to be explained.
--
"I don't think this one is even remotely feasible. The war in Iraq will suck up too many military assets."
The destruction of Iraq is well on its way, and the airbases are in, their polymer concrete airfields are large enough for our biggest cargo planes, and the USPNAC has little compunction about nuking Iran off the map, if necessary.
If you're going to whistle as you pass the graveyard, you might as well whistle Dixie, because the racism driving USPNAC has ZERO compunction about killing Arabs OR Persians (as might be determined by the considerable assistance, including chemical weapons, that the militarist rightwing gave Hussein in the 80s).
" The irony is that I've been convinced for the past year that the big winner of America's Iraq war will be the Iranians."
How 16 armed-to-the-teeth(-with-nukes) airbases within minutes of their capitol is to their advantage remains to be explained.
--
We've outsourced everything else, why not outsource the next war.
Automatic U.S. citizenship for anyone who wants to help our fight in Iran.
We could raise an army of 500,000 just using Mexicans.
The rich always hire help to do their dirty work and we are (still) the richest country on earth.
Why pay some mercenary $100K a year for doing nothing but chauffering Halliburton execs around Baghdad and Kuwait City when it we could hire 5 Mexicans to do that and more with the promise of a U.S. passport.
Let's spend taxpayer dollars more wisely.
We've outsourced everything else, why not outsource the next war.
Automatic U.S. citizenship for anyone who wants to help our fight in Iran.
We could raise an army of 500,000 just using Mexicans.
The rich always hire help to do their dirty work and we are (still) the richest country on earth.
Why pay some mercenary $100K a year for doing nothing but chauffering Halliburton execs around Baghdad and Kuwait City when it we could hire 5 Mexicans to do that and more with the promise of a U.S. passport.
Let's spend taxpayer dollars more wisely.
Invading Iran would be the stupidest thing imaginable. If we are really concerned about the theocratic regime the best thing to do is to quietly encourage the younger democratic reformers, call attention to the misdeeds of the theocratic regime, and work towards creating a situation where the mullahs are eased out of power and power is redistributed to the already existing democratic structure in that country. Of course, none of this involves blowing things up, so to the Shrub admin it is just wussy French talk. What they don't realize is that a US invasion would solidify popular support behind the existing government in a way nothing else could. These idiots call themselves Christians but haven't heard of the Golden Rule. They can't conceive of being on the receiving end of such treatment or they would not be surprised by the resistance they are experiencing in Iraq. As if Americans were the only ones capable of patriotism!
That said, if Israel believes the Iranian reactor is a threat to their national security, I would not object that strenuously if they were to attack it - as long as the US distances itself from the attack and makes it clear that they are not acting on our behalf in any way. Sadly, the Shrub's imperial overreach makes it far less likely that this will be believed even if it is true. The Israelis, unlike us, actually have to live in the neighborhood, and actually do face an existential threat from nuclear-armed foes.
Invading Iran would be the stupidest thing imaginable. If we are really concerned about the theocratic regime the best thing to do is to quietly encourage the younger democratic reformers, call attention to the misdeeds of the theocratic regime, and work towards creating a situation where the mullahs are eased out of power and power is redistributed to the already existing democratic structure in that country. Of course, none of this involves blowing things up, so to the Shrub admin it is just wussy French talk. What they don't realize is that a US invasion would solidify popular support behind the existing government in a way nothing else could. These idiots call themselves Christians but haven't heard of the Golden Rule. They can't conceive of being on the receiving end of such treatment or they would not be surprised by the resistance they are experiencing in Iraq. As if Americans were the only ones capable of patriotism!
That said, if Israel believes the Iranian reactor is a threat to their national security, I would not object that strenuously if they were to attack it - as long as the US distances itself from the attack and makes it clear that they are not acting on our behalf in any way. Sadly, the Shrub's imperial overreach makes it far less likely that this will be believed even if it is true. The Israelis, unlike us, actually have to live in the neighborhood, and actually do face an existential threat from nuclear-armed foes.
I'm not clear yet on how much of a threat a nuclear-armed Iran would be... although there's no question we'd be safer if they weren't.
Maybe this can be resolved through negotiation. But to make that work you have to be able to apply pressure, and as a result of the administration's strategic and tactical incompetence in Iraq we're much less able to do that. It's harder to line our allies up with us, we're stretched thin militarily, and Iran could make Iraq even more of a nightmare for us than it already is (i.e. they can apply counter-pressure).
Which is just to say that in this area as others the war in Iraq has made us less safe rather than more safe.
PS the "invade Israel" comments above are putrid. On the principle of "who benefits" I used to wonder whether the Black-Jewish "split" weren't really a Republican disinformation campaign aimed at sowing dissent in the Democratic party. I wonder the same thing about the purpose and provenance of comments like these.
I'm not clear yet on how much of a threat a nuclear-armed Iran would be... although there's no question we'd be safer if they weren't.
Maybe this can be resolved through negotiation. But to make that work you have to be able to apply pressure, and as a result of the administration's strategic and tactical incompetence in Iraq we're much less able to do that. It's harder to line our allies up with us, we're stretched thin militarily, and Iran could make Iraq even more of a nightmare for us than it already is (i.e. they can apply counter-pressure).
Which is just to say that in this area as others the war in Iraq has made us less safe rather than more safe.
PS the "invade Israel" comments above are putrid. On the principle of "who benefits" I used to wonder whether the Black-Jewish "split" weren't really a Republican disinformation campaign aimed at sowing dissent in the Democratic party. I wonder the same thing about the purpose and provenance of comments like these.
You forgot about the inevitable major his from, say, Travis Tritt about how we're going to Bismarck the mullahs and it's all about 9/11.
You forgot about the inevitable major his from, say, Travis Tritt about how we're going to Bismarck the mullahs and it's all about 9/11.
We've outsourced everything else, why not outsource the next war.
Automatic U.S. citizenship for anyone who wants to help our fight in Iran.
We could raise an army of 500,000 just using Mexicans.
I've been waiting to use this:
"Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship."
(Another apposite Starship Troopers quotation: "I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all!")
We've outsourced everything else, why not outsource the next war.
Automatic U.S. citizenship for anyone who wants to help our fight in Iran.
We could raise an army of 500,000 just using Mexicans.
I've been waiting to use this:
"Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship."
(Another apposite Starship Troopers quotation: "I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all!")
To this one might ad that Bush didn't think he was commiting suicide when he invaded Iraq....
Hey look, I found a column by Ken Pollack. But I suggest that it be retitled:
KEN POLLACK = PWN3D
http://www.brook.edu/views/artic...ck/
20040628.htm
ponte | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 6:09 pm | #
HAHAHAHAH bellicose Americans never cease to make me laugh!
To this one might ad that Bush didn't think he was commiting suicide when he invaded Iraq....
Hey look, I found a column by Ken Pollack. But I suggest that it be retitled:
KEN POLLACK = PWN3D
http://www.brook.edu/views/artic...ck/
20040628.htm
ponte | Email | Homepage | 11.17.04 - 6:09 pm | #
HAHAHAHAH bellicose Americans never cease to make me laugh!
Speaking of re-runs; be prepared for the annual "the economy is getting much better" newscasts, because hiring and consumer spending is up for the holidays. Or course by February they'll all act surprised that economy isn't improving. Happens every year.
Speaking of re-runs; be prepared for the annual "the economy is getting much better" newscasts, because hiring and consumer spending is up for the holidays. Or course by February they'll all act surprised that economy isn't improving. Happens every year.
"The Israelis, unlike us, actually have to live in the neighborhood, and actually do face an existential threat from nuclear-armed foes."
So don't the Iranians. Which is worse, a pre-emptive strike by Iran against Israel, or vice versa? IMHO, Israel is more of a threat than Iran. Consider what Israel has done to the U.S., let alone the Mideast.
"The Israelis, unlike us, actually have to live in the neighborhood, and actually do face an existential threat from nuclear-armed foes."
So don't the Iranians. Which is worse, a pre-emptive strike by Iran against Israel, or vice versa? IMHO, Israel is more of a threat than Iran. Consider what Israel has done to the U.S., let alone the Mideast.
brucds said:
"The irony is that I've been convinced for the past year that the big winner of America's Iraq war will be the Iranians."
It seems that others agree with you:
'Axis of Evil' partner Iran endorses Bush for president
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - The head of Iran's security council said Tuesday the re-election of President George W. Bush would be in Tehran's best interests, despite the administration's axis of evil label, accusations Iran harbours al-Qaida terrorists and threats of sanctions over the country's nuclear ambitions.
...
(from http://www3.cjad.com/content/cp_...s/w101977A.htm)
brucds said:
"The irony is that I've been convinced for the past year that the big winner of America's Iraq war will be the Iranians."
It seems that others agree with you:
'Axis of Evil' partner Iran endorses Bush for president
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - The head of Iran's security council said Tuesday the re-election of President George W. Bush would be in Tehran's best interests, despite the administration's axis of evil label, accusations Iran harbours al-Qaida terrorists and threats of sanctions over the country's nuclear ambitions.
...
(from http://www3.cjad.com/content/cp_...s/w101977A.htm)
There will be no war, just a flight of air-to-ground F-22s armed with nuclear bunker busting bombs.
There will be no war, just a flight of air-to-ground F-22s armed with nuclear bunker busting bombs.
These initial rumblings coming from the usual quarters are additionally
ominous when you take into account the junta's (and i think it's safe to call it a junta at
this point) expulsion of those who would seek a more moderate position, those with dissenting viewpoints and voices, and those who dare to leak or reveal the inner workings, decision-making processes, and policy decisions of the junta before they have been enacted (those who undermine stated justifications
for events by coming forward with contradictory narratives of how causes were connected to effects are also not welcome). It's almost like they're trying to close ranks just in case...
When you combine this with the news coming from the WAPO today that the administration is proposing a series of tax reforms that would virtually eliminate taxes on dividends and captital gains, while also eliminating deductions for state
and local taxes and tax breaks given to businesses who provide health care for their employees, and it looks additionally dubious, almost as if dubya's trying to shore up his support from the wealthy and business elite just in case he needs some "political capital" to spend on a new war.
So to review:
Alternative universe rumblings about threat of iran + Closing ranks, doing away with possible opposition from within + Sop to big business and the wealthy = We're fucked.
My guess is that all they need to put everything in motion is a little more time and an event to scare the shit out of people. Now would be a good time for the democrats to start seeing the "big picture" they keep talking about. Or is that just a lost cause?
These initial rumblings coming from the usual quarters are additionally
ominous when you take into account the junta's (and i think it's safe to call it a junta at
this point) expulsion of those who would seek a more moderate position, those with dissenting viewpoints and voices, and those who dare to leak or reveal the inner workings, decision-making processes, and policy decisions of the junta before they have been enacted (those who undermine stated justifications
for events by coming forward with contradictory narratives of how causes were connected to effects are also not welcome). It's almost like they're trying to close ranks just in case...
When you combine this with the news coming from the WAPO today that the administration is proposing a series of tax reforms that would virtually eliminate taxes on dividends and captital gains, while also eliminating deductions for state
and local taxes and tax breaks given to businesses who provide health care for their employees, and it looks additionally dubious, almost as if dubya's trying to shore up his support from the wealthy and business elite just in case he needs some "political capital" to spend on a new war.
So to review:
Alternative universe rumblings about threat of iran + Closing ranks, doing away with possible opposition from within + Sop to big business and the wealthy = We're fucked.
My guess is that all they need to put everything in motion is a little more time and an event to scare the shit out of people. Now would be a good time for the democrats to start seeing the "big picture" they keep talking about. Or is that just a lost cause?
"Now would be a good time for the democrats to start seeing the "big picture" they keep talking about. Or is that just a lost cause?
umasslefty"
I assure you that many in the party do see that we are indeed fucked.
That doesn't change the fact that we are in the majority, still. More people by far voted for John Kerry than George Wimperator Bush.
--
"Now would be a good time for the democrats to start seeing the "big picture" they keep talking about. Or is that just a lost cause?
umasslefty"
I assure you that many in the party do see that we are indeed fucked.
That doesn't change the fact that we are in the majority, still. More people by far voted for John Kerry than George Wimperator Bush.
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http://www.newamericancentury.org/
I know there are some of you who have not read this yet.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
I know there are some of you who have not read this yet.
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