HaloScan.com - Comments

I'MMA LET YOU FINISH

So I finally show up and no one's here
FeralLiberal | 11.19.04 - 11:33 pm | #

Second? Third? Fouth?

Testing
kissfan | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:34 pm | #

Thanks Hecate, I'm sure A-man would approve.
Central Scrutinizer | 11.19.04 - 11:34 pm | #

Fouth?

Somedays I'm a complete dumbshit.

(sigh)
kissfan | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:34 pm | #

You can buy me at Wal-Mart, which is a command economy unto itself.
yellow ribbon magnet | 11.19.04 - 11:37 pm | #

I got home tonight and realized I'd left my frapping keys at work. At least, that's where I hope they are.
Hecate | 11.19.04 - 11:37 pm | #

I just walked in. Philly is hopping tonight. I think it must be the Philly Marathon, which is sunday. Atrios must be livin' it up.
Sean | 11.19.04 - 11:38 pm | #

Hell-LOOO? Anybody home?

I guess they're all stoned on Erototoxins... sure would hate to be the one to clean THAT thread after everyones gone...
MisterX | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:39 pm | #

Ah, Hecate. I hope so too. Keys are a perennial mystery.
The Other Sarah | 11.19.04 - 11:39 pm | #

Hey guys? Any good news? I've noticed a number of good threads on both poetry and music here. (Blogwhoring ahead) I've got a link up on my blog to a David Eggers piece about how music can augment your education, and a rebuttal ...
jellymister | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:39 pm | #

That's a shitty way to end your week. You should start your weekend right, be nice to yourself.
jps | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:40 pm | #

WTF is this?

Oh, pardon me, it's only a< href ="http://nytimes.com/2004/11/20/politics/20spend.html?hp&ex=1100926800&en=d8f29f1422805611&ei=5094&partner=homepage">creeping Facism.

(Thanks Swan.)
Central Scrutinizer | 11.19.04 - 11:40 pm | #

Goodnight, room. Goodnight, chair. Goodnight, blog. Goodnight, computer.
the moon | 11.19.04 - 11:40 pm | #

No, I cant buy you at Walmart because I refuse to go in Walmart
Hecate | 11.19.04 - 11:40 pm | #

Huge brawl broke out at the end of the Pacers/Pistons game. Pacers players went into the crowd and brawled with fans after one fan hit Ron Artest with a cup full of beer.

Ugly
Big Nasty | 11.19.04 - 11:41 pm | #

Once again
Central Scrutinizer | 11.19.04 - 11:42 pm | #

the Word of the Lord concerning the spilling of seed.
theodoric | 11.19.04 - 11:44 pm | #

Feel free to visit my blog.
The Kenosha Kid | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:44 pm | #

Crap, it's gonna be 4 years of this, folks. I'm ready to make my home on the kitty thread.

No Demo-CAT would ever vote for Bush - what's up with these Republi-CANINES?
KidRanger | 11.19.04 - 11:44 pm | #

You can buy me at Wal-Mart, which is a command economy unto itself.
yellow ribbon magnet | 11.19.04 - 11:46 pm | #

You can buy me at Wal-Mart, which is a command economy unto itself.
yellow ribbon magnet

You know what's weird?

I've been wondering since June where the fuck those things have been coming from. they're all over the goddamn place up here in upstate (but blue county!) NY. I just don't shop at Wal-Mart. Does this mean I "support the troops" any less? Not that I think that phrase makes a whole hell a lot of sense... but it makes a lot LESS sense when in pracrice it means "do you shop at Wal-Mart"?

You know what's hilarious?

I bet David Brooks has been wondering where the fuck you buy those goddamn magnets for even longer than I have.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:47 pm | #

i'm an erototerrorist.
n69n | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:47 pm | #

Interesting NY Times article on Wal-Mart's collection of consumer data, via Washington Monthly. Click on Homepage for link.
FeralLiberal | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:48 pm | #

I have a serious question. Why do conservatives hate women?
up2date | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:48 pm | #

Pacers players went into the crowd and brawled with fans after one fan hit Ron Artest with a cup full of beer.

I heard it was keys.

Then I heard it was a tire iron. Hit him right in the fuckin' face!

Those kids have taken a savage beating.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:48 pm | #

"We're all porn-freak bastards, but he's the only one who killed a cat" - Hyde on a That Seventies Show rerun, just now... sort of weird synchronicity with the last two threads here, or have I been online too long?
The Kenosha Kid | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:48 pm | #

I have a serious question. Why do conservatives hate women?
up2date | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:49 pm | #

You know what's hilarious?

I bet David Brooks has been wondering where the fuck you buy those goddamn magnets for even longer than I have.
Thersites

Ha ha! That IS hilarious! I smell (heh) another Brooks article...
MisterX | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:49 pm | #

We live in a wicked, wicked world. I thought things would get better now that Our Leader has a man date, but principals are still being fired for exercising their Christian beliefs.
Gen JC Christian, patriot | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:50 pm | #

Sorry about the re-posting of data.

Wal-mart comes to your town and makes the little stores disappear so everyone can go to a single warehouse for centralized distribution of goods.

Support the troops comrade.
yellow ribbon magnet | 11.19.04 - 11:50 pm | #

We support the guy in China selling those idiotic magnets!
Chris Tucker | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:51 pm | #

I grew up in the age of the blue light special. We haven't evolved much since then. Does anyone remember people stampeding across K-Mart to save .50 cents on a roll of paper towels? It was nuts.
Falstaff | 11.19.04 - 11:52 pm | #

I thought they meant Erato toxins, the bad music that Rs listen to, which murders Erato, goddess of lyrics.

But that's just me...I'm an over-educated blog-reader, which is to say, my brain continues to seek out e toxins, because even painful learning is of value when fighting a cancer on the white house.

Just ran into blonde curly-headed kid who is a Sean Hannity freak. Talk about irrato toxins!

I told him, "When the Pentagon asked for 450,000 troops, and Rumsfeld said "we can do it on the cheap" because he thought they would throw flowers instead of RPGs at our troops, THAT was criminal negligence."

He said it was 'a mistake.'

I said, "It was a mistake, but in a position of power when one makes mistakes which get our soldiers killed, such as 40,000 troops with no Kevlar, or only 2% of the invasion vehicles armored, THAT is criminal negligence, no matter how much it was a mistake to be criminally negligent."

That put him on tilt, but good.

(mission accomplished)

--
Paul | 11.19.04 - 11:53 pm | #

Theresites,

A conversation between myself and my sister:

Me: What's with the yellow ribbon?

She: It's to support the troops.

Me: So how does that support the troops?

She: Because everyone can see that I support the troops!

Me: Have you given money to provide them with things like body armor, toilet paper, etc?

She: That's the government's responsibility.

True story.

I used to change her diaper.
Central Scrutinizer | 11.19.04 - 11:54 pm | #

Chris Tucker-

Perfect!

.
spork_incident | 11.19.04 - 11:55 pm | #

Somewhat ironic that on the Times page with the story about the absurd anti-choice wording in the appropriations bill, a banner ad pops up promoting Kinsey! I'd find it more amusing if it weren't so scary...
njbrad | 11.19.04 - 11:56 pm | #

Occasionally I'm serious.
Attaturk | Homepage | 11.19.04 - 11:57 pm | #

Too bummed, time to drink large amounts of wine. Its been over two weeks and I am stil horrendously sad, and in disbelief!

going market bloggin tomorrow.. wanna go?
juliagulia | 11.19.04 - 11:57 pm | #

Paul,

Did you ask him when he was shipping out to Iraq?
Hecate | 11.19.04 - 11:57 pm | #

Here's today's "have you stopped beating your wife?" Poll from CNN

Do you think Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons?
Yes
No
OT | 11.20.04 - 12:00 am | #

I have a serious question. Why do conservatives hate women?
up2date

That's interesting. I was gathering statistics yesterday for a similar post chez moi, but I was basing it on rates of domestic violence and rape. That's why Ted Stevens' name jumped out of the story about this anti-abortion stunt the GOP's playing with the current funding bill.

I'm glad Kos got to it, because it was hard work and I wasn't looking forward to returning to it.

I will share one interesting thing I learned, though; forgive me if you already knew this. Generally, the Red states have a way, WAY higher rate of gonorrhea and syphilis than the Blue states. And I'm not talking proportionally...I'm talking literally. Georgia, for instance, had almost 2000 more cases of clap than California, despite having a population a quarter the size. That held true for a lot of other Red states too. They're fucking their brains out down there...they're just not using condoms. Hmmmm...could epidemic STD rates be one reason they need so much money from Blue states?
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:00 am | #

I've wondered why Republicans seem to hate women myself. My god, the way they attack candidates wives if they are intelligent and independent. I think its fear, and I think they were taught maybe that its unnatural, maybe immoral. It creeps me out, tho. Grow up, you guys! We don't bite, for gods sake. We just are real people.
puzzledwoman | 11.20.04 - 12:00 am | #

Some of us fight the war by calling dissent, treason.
Gen JC Christian, patriot | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:01 am | #

We support the guy in China selling those idiotic magnets!
Chris Tucker

Thanks, damn funny! I sent that to all my pals... wotta riot!
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:01 am | #

breaking news?

as i'm typing this a local news outlet is repeatedly showing a riot at a nba game between detroit and indiana. it has been shown at least 10 times and counting in slo-mo, freeze frame and every available camera angle.

prior to this the same station showed video of the fight and stabbing at the vibe awards show a few days ago.

combine this with the nfl monday night fiasco and the question must be asked, who is the true defiler of moral values in america, the public or the media companies?

and yes, the tape is still being shown, at least 20 times and counting...
cruelruler | 11.20.04 - 12:03 am | #

I had to go back and look, for a moment I thought there was an Atrian Bat Signal for a new thread to be opened. Then I realized Hecate was watching over us.
EkCenTrik | 11.20.04 - 12:03 am | #

Republicans hate women because they have to feel superior to someone. It's their defense mechanism for dealing with all the shit life has to offer. They figure that they put up with crap so long as they can crap on someone else.

At least, that's the way I figure it.
dissenter | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:05 am | #

Is there no comment on Central Scrutinizer's link?

THis is the start that we have been dreading and no one has read the article?

Abotrion is on the line in this new spending bill.GO read it now!

Abortion in jepordy!
smalfish | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:05 am | #

We support the guy in China selling those idiotic magnets!

...It is funny. Our boys are fighting overseas, so we buy chinese magnets and stick them on our Japanese cars and drive them to work at the Bosch plant.
Falstaff | 11.20.04 - 12:06 am | #

I found my keys in the freezer once. Don't know why or how, but at least I found em.
uppity | 11.20.04 - 12:06 am | #

I've been wondering since June where the fuck those things have been coming from. they're all over the goddamn place up here in upstate (but blue county!) NY.

Damn, I wish I had that problem.

Of course, I guess I'm asking for it, in and out of truck stops about five times a week, but still.
theodoric | 11.20.04 - 12:07 am | #

Central Scrutinizer

man, that is the story of our time. Did you see this over at Digby's? Your sister isn't alone.

I'm trying to go into some detail about this at my blog. But in a nutshell I think what's happening is that we've come dangerously close to a place where simple logic is increasingly seen as a totally illegitimate mode of political speech.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:07 am | #

The bush twins get rejected from a resturant, told to come back in 4 years. I posted it at my site, www.kohlmanobserver.com check it out
Jake | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:08 am | #

Your irony is exquisite and your wit is precious.

It is as light and inconsequential as a paper balloon.

I am a bargain sentiment that sticks to metal.
yellow ribbon magnet | 11.20.04 - 12:09 am | #

Yeah, read the article. If they are really so against abortion, why can't they just bring it up in its own bill. No, we must be conniving. Face it, they don't have the votes on it and want to try their little dirty tricks. I was depressed when I read it, the usual crap.
puzzledwoman | 11.20.04 - 12:10 am | #

smallfish

Abortion is dead. It died on Nov. 2nd
Hecate | 11.20.04 - 12:10 am | #

Hecate - hope you find them. One time I drove the 3 hours from San Antonio to my house, only to find that I'd dropped my keys in the crack of my Aunt's sofa. Driving rainstorm, and my Brother and his family staying the night at my place before heading home. :-(
-
Fielding Mellish | 11.20.04 - 12:10 am | #

I'm so sick of 9-11 as the Universal Pretext. Yes, it was horrible, but no, it wasn't the end of the fucking world, or even the United States, or even New York, for God's sake.

It didn't "change everything"; it barely changed a thing, really, except in the emotions of a bunch of people who seemingly went into a state of permanent hysteria. They should get a grip, already.
orbitron | 11.20.04 - 12:12 am | #

Conservatives hate women because they have tiny weewees.

Why do they need another reason?
theodoric | 11.20.04 - 12:12 am | #

Abortion is dead. It died on Nov. 2nd

Are you f'in kidding me?Is this the path we are going to take?

Abortion is dead?

WTF???
smalfish | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:13 am | #

Abortion is dead. It died on Nov. 2nd

Gobadaba. Aborta kaka. Slas komoto surdomina.

Ac ac cata cata. Drewzzel. Theotasek.

Saddy li rof ese tac lurc rawl teautube?
iiiiiiiiiiiiiii | 11.20.04 - 12:13 am | #

"Paul, Did you ask him when he was shipping out to Iraq?--Hecate"

I don't do that, but others at that vigil/protest did.

I understand the snark, but we have a considerable amount of evidence of criminal negligence by the Iraq Invasion planners, in hand. I pound it into these kids, and that REALLY confuses them (as opposed to the snark, which just makes them say, 'there you go again.')

We should organize it, build an impeachment bill for each of the Iraq war planners, develop a coalition of House members who are willing to float these bills, and then rally our vocal activists, and push, push, push until we get our rights.

--
Paul | 11.20.04 - 12:13 am | #

Theresites,

The holidays will be interesting, to say the least.

You can't argue with that kind of logic.
Central Scrutinizer | 11.20.04 - 12:14 am | #

I'm so sick of 9-11 as the Universal Pretext.

...I hate to say it, but I bet there is a group of neocons secretly hoping for another terror attack they can use as a premise to attack Iran.
Falstaff | 11.20.04 - 12:17 am | #

I'm trying to go into some detail about this at my blog. But in a nutshell I think what's happening is that we've come dangerously close to a place where simple logic is increasingly seen as a totally illegitimate mode of political speech.
Thersites

That, and the fact that what gets called "reality" pretty much depends on its utility at a given moment. For instance, evidence of widespread vote-counting problems only "matters" if it could change the outcome of the election...the idea that these problems are worthy of note in and of themself has totally fallen by the wayside. That seems to be a step beyond the "shape of the earth: views differ" problem, in that the media could just as easily decide that the shape of the earth doesn't affect Bush's policies, so there's no reason to know whether it's flat or round. I think that's an approach we're taking to huge chunks of reality at this point.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:18 am | #

Damn, I wish I had that problem.

Of course, I guess I'm asking for it, in and out of truck stops about five times a week, but still.

Hmmm. I was in and out of truck stops this summer, but I guess not the right ones. But in early August we took our anuual family trip to the Adirondacks, and they were all the fuck over in the space of a day or so. We'd hypothesized that they must have been like some Home Depot giveaway. The fact that people were buying them is interesting...

I'm fascinated by this. I'm sure that the smug troll-pundit answer is that we're out-of-touch elite snobs. But then we live in an upstate NY county that went blue (though newly so in many races). The long and the short of it is that we just don't go into Wal-Mart and we don't go into truck stops.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:18 am | #

Sushi sushi sushi sushi sushi
The Liberal Avenger | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:20 am | #

Did you see this over at Digby's?

Gourd, that's one of the most disheartening reads in a long time. All the more so because I know these people.

You can't talk to them. They don't wanna know.
-
Here on the geographical left, I don't see many yellow ribbon magnets but am starting to see these big yellow ribbon stickers on the SUVs, not bumper stickers but on the body of the auto.

When I point to one and observe that it's probably better to 'support the troops' by sending armor for their Hummers until we can get them the hell outta there. Blank looks. Big yawns. Why do I bother?
-
Phredd | 11.20.04 - 12:21 am | #

La,la,la lalala

Abortion is dead,lets go on about our normal business.

No fucking problem.Not a big deal.Just a minor inconvience to those women.
smalfish | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:21 am | #

smallfish,

Sorry I didn't mean that the way it sounded. I'm heartsick over what's happening to women in this country.
Hecate | 11.20.04 - 12:22 am | #

Why is Bill Moyers the only journalist left in America? And why is he retiring?
Vinnie | 11.20.04 - 12:23 am | #

(((

trema trema trema trema

__ __ ___

?
?
?
iiiiiiiiiiiiiii | 11.20.04 - 12:23 am | #

BTW, Thersites, what was with that 40-minute gap between your and Mary's last post below, and your arrival up here?
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:23 am | #

I'm so sick of 9-11 as the Universal Pretext.

And this really gets to a lot of what we're talking about. As a native NYCer, I find it incredibly messed up that 9/11 happened in Manhattan, one of the most anti-Bush places in the entire country. Talk about blaming the victim. I've said it before, but who does your average Red-State Christian Bush Voter hate more, a NYC liberal or Osama Bin Laden?

That's our national tragedy, right there, the awful family secret we're not allowed to talk about.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:26 am | #

Here on the geographical left, I don't see many yellow ribbon magnets but am starting to see these big yellow ribbon stickers on the SUVs, not bumper stickers but on the body of the auto.

I've seen a few of 'em on SUVs too. But by and large, most of the Bushmobiles in my area are dilapidated junkers driven by sad old men. You can't even get angry at them...they're too tragic.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:27 am | #

I have this impression that at the beginning of WWI, many folks went off to fight with glory and adventure in their eyes. Those who remained had a fixed view of patriotism. But most did not have a realistic understanding that people were really dying. I suspect we are somewhere in the phase now.
EkCenTrik | 11.20.04 - 12:28 am | #

Psst:

It is likely that the election was stolen, that I actually received more votes than W did.

We're looking into it, but quietly. I haven't abandoned you. Don't worry; if there's anything there, we'll find it.

For details, see:

http://tinyurl.com/486xk

Thank you, and God bless America.
The Real John Kerry | 11.20.04 - 12:28 am | #

Thersites, what was with that 40-minute gap between your and Mary's last post below, and your arrival up here?

An admission of the shocking reality that that's how long it takes us to get our stubborn 5-year-old son to brush his teeth. It's a fuck of a lot of work & takes the both of us. The only thing that remotely motivates him to do it is showing him Pogues videos with closeups of Shane McGowan's mouth, where we say "look what happens when you don't brush!"

I'm actually not joking here...
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:29 am | #

Maybe someone has already written this, but John Kerry looked damned good in that video. Teresa is one lucky woman.
Monica A | 11.20.04 - 12:30 am | #

Willing to bet that 9 out of 10 morons sporting the stupid yellow ribbon magnets on their cars supported sending our troops into the hell they're in right now. And that 9 out of 10 of those aren't willing to go or send their own precious children to die in the clusterfuck.

"Supporting our troops" my ass. More like supporting our troops being used as fodder for political ambition and corporate gain.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 12:31 am | #

Maybe someone has already written this, but John Kerry looked damned good in that video. Teresa is one lucky woman.

Well, thank you, Monica, but I am a one-woman man. But if I weren't married, you can be sure that I'd be "reporting for duty" in your bedroom ASAP. Grrrr!

Thank you and God bless America.
The Real John Kerry | 11.20.04 - 12:32 am | #

That, and the fact that what gets called "reality" pretty much depends on its utility at a given moment.

Exactly. But the crucial question at all times is "utility to whom."

War is politics by other means... sure. But now morality is politics by other means, and that's even more dangerous.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:32 am | #

Howdy folks :

You , my friends and bloggy-good family in Peace , Reason and Enlightened Fury ( sis sis sis ) have always gotten a kick out of us , your northern Neighbors ( Canada, not just Americas Hat) , so I thought you'd all get a kick out of Canukistans reaction to Missle Defense. The anti-Bush sentiment here just reached a fury as an outspoken Liberal Minister stomped a GW action figure on a Canuk comedy show . She has been turfed from Caucus. More on her when I find the video links.
In the meanwhile , see my homepage for our anti-missle defense stuff.

Hecate, you look fabulous tonight ....

you too Dr. Black
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:32 am | #

Conservatives hate women because they fear them. A typically primitive, brainstem reaction.

Live Free or DieBold!
arachnae | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:33 am | #

On a road trip from WI to New Orleans last week I noticed an increasing number of the yellow ribbons as I headed south. Evidently the Bible belt and the Wal-Mart belt have considerable overlap.
FeralLiberal | 11.20.04 - 12:34 am | #

...showing him Pogues videos with closeups of Shane McGowan's mouth, where we say "look what happens when you don't brush!" I'm actually not joking here... Thersites

HAW HAW HAW! I'm gonna try that on my little (almost) six-year-old MasterX... that's great.
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:34 am | #

"Abortion is dead. It died on Nov. 2nd"

no it didn't, only LEGAL abortion.
.
gak | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:35 am | #

and Thersites, hi from High Park !
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:35 am | #

Sorry about that. I do believe it's the first time I've ever double-posted.

Oh, and about conservative men and their fear of women: it's because they fear female sexuality and suspect they aren't capable of sexually satisfying a woman. And I'm sure they're usually correct on that point.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 12:35 am | #

Teresa is one lucky woman.

And he is one lucky man.

I really did come to like the both of them. Neither is perfect but they are great Americans worthy of respect. I was proud to vote for him and I will never regret my decision.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:36 am | #

as i'm typing this a local news outlet is repeatedly showing a riot at a nba game between detroit and indiana. it has been shown at least 10 times and counting in slo-mo, freeze frame and every available camera angle.

I was at the local Applebee's when it happened (the food sucks, but it's new, so we thought we'd try it.) All of a sudden half the resturant let out a huge groan. When I looked up, I saw everyone looking at the TV.

The guy at the next table, a nicely dressed white man sitting with his wife and three young kids, said, "Maybe they're finishing the riot they started at their [Vibe] awards the other night. When will those people learn how to act decently." He said it loudly and noone else around him seemed to even note the racism. In fact, a few people were nodding.

That's life in a red county.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:36 am | #

Well, thank you, Monica, but I am a one-woman man. But if I weren't married, you can be sure that I'd be "reporting for duty" in your bedroom ASAP. Grrrr!

Thank you, but I'm a one man woman. The only man for me is my husband.
Monica A | 11.20.04 - 12:36 am | #

Abortion is dead...

No, the wingnuts are apparently telling us that they are ready for the back-alley abortion and babies-dumped-in-trash cans to make a nostalgic comeback. The "New-Old Right to Choose."

That measure is probably going to remain in that omnibus bill and pass.

Pam's House Blend
Pamindurham | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:37 am | #

Why is Bill Moyers the only journalist left in America? And why is he retiring?
Vinnie

To pick your spirits up a bit, watch Les Kinsolving go after Scottie at one of the WH press gaggles.
-
Fielding Mellish | 11.20.04 - 12:37 am | #

That's life in a red county.
patriotboy

Did you at least do the "*coughassholecough*" thing?

If you're good, sometimes you can sneak that little gem in under their radar... they don't expect it.
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:39 am | #

I'd like to contribute, but I'm totally out of my mind on erototoxins right now.
DaveInSeattle | 11.20.04 - 12:39 am | #

Way, way OT and definately an odd stroke, but I'm good and baked, so what the hell...

Every year, my bossman throughs a big Christmas-type shindig. Lots of beer, lots of food, the secret Santa thing and a blind eye to, shall we say, certain experimenting with new cooking herbs. Also, since there's so many musician bums that work there, we put together a band and do a covers thing. Lots of laughs, mainly because we're all so drunk by the time we start playing, it becomes an ungodly racket. We did horrible, horrible things to "L.A. Woman" and "Free Bird" a couple years ago. No song deserves what we did.

Anyhow, I'm usually pretty good at picking out my song (we all sing one), but I'm stumped. I got a few ideas, but nothing really delights. As I respect the opinions here, I'm open for suggestions.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:39 am | #

I think whenever anyone uses the phrase "9/11 changed everything," it should be noted thusly: "9/11 Changed Everything™", since it's now an official slogan of the GOP.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 12:39 am | #

An admission of the shocking reality that that's how long it takes us to get our stubborn 5-year-old son to brush his teeth. It's a fuck of a lot of work & takes the both of us.

You should buy a copy of "The BIg Book of British Smiles."

Which absurd British fop author was it tried to show solidarity with the workers by purposefully ruining his teeth...Christopher Isherwood, maybe?
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:40 am | #

"Maybe they're finishing the riot they started at their [Vibe] awards the other night. When will those people...

Oy Vey! *Those* people again. Good ol' red state rednecks. They never miss an opportunity to put someone different from them on the lower moral rung.
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 12:41 am | #

Backslider - How about "Soul City" by Southern Culture on the Skids?
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 12:41 am | #

My dental hygenist told me that the only reason people who don't brush still have their teeth is the plaque holding them in.
Monica A | 11.20.04 - 12:42 am | #

Anyhow, I'm usually pretty good at picking out my song (we all sing one), but I'm stumped. I got a few ideas, but nothing really delights. As I respect the opinions here, I'm open for suggestions.
Backslider

"This is My Country" by the Impressions. Either that, or "We Got a Date" by Hasil Adkins.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:42 am | #

Peace, AsH! Hi from Vestal, NY! Upstate NY is getting bluer: friendlier terrain for our amigos & amis. We're building a better world, one person at a time. Peace!
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:42 am | #

Backslider - For sheer comedic value, how about "Chevy Van" or Melanie's "I Got a Brand-New Pair of Rollerskates, You Got a Brand-New Key"?

In the key of Joey Ramone...
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:42 am | #

Can I buy Canadian Erototoxins? (need me some of that)
arachnae | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:43 am | #

Backslider: Redd Kross, Super Sunny Christmas. Or, Motorhead, Eat the Rich. Best solution, a medley.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:44 am | #

Oo ee
Oo ah ah
Ting
Tang
Walla walla bing bang
The Witch Doctor | 11.20.04 - 12:45 am | #

How about Metallica's "Fuel?"

"Give Me Fuel"
"Give Me Fire"
"Give Me That Which I Desire"
Monica A | 11.20.04 - 12:46 am | #

They're fucking their brains out down there...they're just not using condoms.
Philalethes | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:00 am | #

You speak the truth. Least it was that way when I was growing up. You couldn't go to the pharmacy 'cause Bill Prestage would tell your momma, they weren't sold anywhere else and you did not buy trucker rubbers. And then there's the macho guy "I'll only put the head in" thing. And, oddly enough, it shared the "it's a fag thing" thing that jerkin' off had.

Hell, I didn't use a rubber until I was 20 and off at college, despite needing a couple of times prior. And I ain't ashamed to admit it, I still feel a twinge of embarrasment when I buy 'em now.

Course, it's been a while since I stocked up. No need throwing money away.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:46 am | #

Jennifer - Ooooh, good one!

It don't matter if you pants are shine
If your dick is big, or your dick is tiny...

Philalethes - Oooh, another good one. And there's always "She Said"...

Of course, the only song I can sing is "Surfin' Bird"... in my Donald Duck voice.
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:47 am | #

BTW before anybody jumps me - I don't support Kinsolving's politics - it's just that he and Helen Thomas seem to be the only members of the pool that don't sit through the gaggle like little birds waiting for Scottie to vomit the latest WH talking points into their eager, gaping beaks.
-
Fielding Mellish | 11.20.04 - 12:47 am | #

Girl from Inpanema done Punk?

(I need to get out more)
EkCenTrik | 11.20.04 - 12:47 am | #

Or you could do "If There's a Hell Below, We're All Gonna Go."

Or what was that Tampa Red song..."I'll Kill Your Soul and Dare Your Spirit to Move."

Motorhead's "The Chase is Better Than the Kill"?
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:48 am | #

Backslider : Anything off Desolation Boulevard , Maybe some BTO for me, ( Takin Care of Business is Canuk Subversion most Americans think American) and of course I bet you could cobblee together a stunningly misguided Swamp-pop version of Overkill...
'Only way to feel the noise
is when it's good and loud
so good I can't believe
I'm screaming with the crowd'
*BANJO takes over here *
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:48 am | #

You should buy a copy of "The BIg Book of British Smiles."

Which absurd British fop author was it tried to show solidarity with the workers by purposefully ruining his teeth...Christopher Isherwood, maybe?

"The Big Book of British Smiles" is weenie crap next to seeing Shane's incisors sticking from his gumline into his lower lip, horizontally...

I am a modernist scholar by trade, but you have stumped me... dental trivia did not come up on my comps. But I do know what Yeats's "rejuvenating operation" consisted of, which is gross enough for one lifetime, thank you very much...
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:48 am | #

Just sing "Wonderful World" Ramones style. It's sort of a holiday song ("peace on Earth and goodwill towards men" meme)but you can really rock out.
Monica A | 11.20.04 - 12:50 am | #

As a native NYCer, I find it incredibly messed up that 9/11 happened in Manhattan, one of the most anti-Bush places in the entire country. Talk about blaming the victim.

I come from a whole family of NRA members in Indiana, but the biggest gun nut I know lives at 72nd and Broadway. (He's finally on his way to the West Coast; his lust for firearms has so overcome his common sense that he's taking a pay cut to move to San Francisco.)

In a broader sense, though, of course, none of this is really about Bush. It's not his fault that we've been supporting Zionist terrorism for the last half-century as well as the despotic regimes who control the Persian Gulf, as much as he'd like it to be, nor is it Bush's fault that we saw fit to overthrow Mossadegh and attempted to supplant Islam in Iran by installing Reza Pahlavi. Nor can Bush take either credit or blame for the CIA adventure in Afghanistan.

But, of course, we're too busy hating each other to pay attention to the real reasons why the rest of the world might not like us so well.
theodoric | 11.20.04 - 12:52 am | #

Backslider - since it's Christmas, and the Pogues have been brought up, how about "A Fairy Tale of New York?" You sure don't have to be sober for it.
-
Fielding Mellish | 11.20.04 - 12:53 am | #

I'm going to bed, but I wanted to get some opinions on this. I wanted to buy my husband a really good leather briefcase (like the one's from the 40's & 50's.)He is a Database Administrator (one of the leads on a big project.) Can anyone a really good manufacturer? Money is no object. Thanks and I'll take my answers off the air.
Monica A | 11.20.04 - 12:54 am | #

And I ain't ashamed to admit it, I still feel a twinge of embarrasment when I buy 'em now.

Sure. It's been years since I bought them...but I always felt that way. I think it's cause I used to hate it when I'd be buying groceries...I'd buy tortillas, refried beans, whatever...and the clerk would say "Gonna make tacos, huh?"

I always figured I'd get someone who'd say something like "Gonna do a little fuckin' tonight, huh? Why don't ya save a few bucks, and shoot a load in her ass?"

Of course, no one ever did say that, or anything remotely like it, but that's probably 'cause I bought 'em as seldom as I could get away with ("If you buy the condoms tonight, honey, I'll poke the worm medicine up the cat").

It's way worse for gals, though...I know a woman who bought some lubricant, and was mortified when the register guy wanted to compare notes with her...ugh.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:55 am | #

Backslider : I am as baked as you and I know this because it just hit me , a medly alternating between 'Southern Man " and " Sweet Home Alabama" ....c'mon , that's pricless, stoned , impossible and brilliant....confusing too .

Tell me we Kerry-ites can't jam both sides of an issue onto one side of an LP !

Peace man , and now , back to this Fine Canuk Wheelchair ...RyHi/ Weelchair cross ...wait , wait , no ....shit , where are the matches , damn, more coffee...bbubbles...brain bubbles...fuzzy ...hmmm...
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:56 am | #

suggest a really good leather maker or company who manufactures briefcases?
Monica A | 11.20.04 - 12:56 am | #

Monica A,

"Coach" makes some really awesone breifcases that have that old time quality and style I think you're looking for. Their leather goods actually last as long as you do.
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 12:57 am | #

What was that demented Guess Who song..."Woodshop," or something like that? Used to hear it driving around Toronto, 'cause it sure as hell wasn't a hit down here. Something about diesels and weasels...
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:58 am | #

Lots of stores carry them. Lord and Taylor, Bloomies, and Sax carry them. Coach also has a website you can order from.
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 12:59 am | #

No, the wingnuts are apparently telling us that they are ready for the back-alley abortion and babies-dumped-in-trash cans to make a nostalgic comeback.

I knew a woman who did that. We basically grew up together working on local farms during summer break to earn extra crash. Very pretty. I always wanted to ask her out, but fpr some reason, never did.

Her family was dirt poor and I later learned that the father sexually abused all of the girls. His brother lived next door and was also an abuser. I read that he was convicted for it last year.

We lived in a very Mormon community. Abortion was never discussed. I suspect that's why she didn't have one, and by the time she gave birth, she was a complete mess psychologically.

She was basically a good person. I know that some of you can't understand why I'd say that, but she was. She was dealt more than she could handle in life and wasn't given the tools as a child that she would need to dig herself out of the nightmare that was created for her.

I haven't seen her in at least twenty-five years. I bet her life is very bad. She was sentenced to twenty years in a state where people are imprisoned for punishment rather than rehab. She'll never be able to stay with her family. The people in that town hate her.

I'll always remember her as the sweet, pretty girl she was before her environment destroyed her.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:00 am | #

It's way worse for gals, though...I know a woman who bought some lubricant, and was mortified when the register guy wanted to compare notes with her...ugh.
Philalethes

Once went to the pharmacy to purchase Rid-X and EPT. Swear to God. Cashier asked me "rough week, huh, buddy?" Despite the circumstances all I could do was laugh.
-
Fielding Mellish | 11.20.04 - 1:01 am | #

Hmmm. I guess I should've put a disclaimer: remember who're we're talking about here. Y'all know what gets my mojo workin' - the rock-and-roll-country-blue-soul-R&B thing - and my views on said mojo. Plus, we try to keep the songs from being too obscure (which makes it tough for me).

Jennifer - Cool tune and a kickin' groove, have to see how it floats. Songs like that and "Shotgun" - the drivin' rockers - are my favorite SCOTS tunes. The less hick blackface, the better.

Philalethes - The Impressions are beyond my ability as a singer. I'm a shouter and a country/blues singer by nature and (meager) skills, and I prefer not to disgrace such as the Impressions by singing the song poorly. And, frankly, I never cared much for Hasil Adkins. Give me the Legendary Stardust Cowboy for that sort of thing.

MisterX - Sorta like a driving punk-ish song? Done it, sorta. I did "Margaritaville" a la the Sex Pistols a few years back. Rocked. And as for the Melanie song, one of my ex's said she thought that was the sexyist song ever. When I expressed confusion as to why, she showed me why. I doubted her no longer.

Thersites - Did "Ace Of Spades" year before last, and we try not to repeat artists too much. If we didn't, it'd be nothing but the Ramones, Radiohead, AC\DC and the Misfits. And I love medleys. Thinking about doing Mitch Ryder's "Jenny Take A Ride" (medley of Little Richard's "Jenny, Jenny" and Chuck Willis' "C.C. Rider").
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:01 am | #

Wow, what a strange thread. My only comment is that everyone shoud read Whats the Matter With Kansass and I would also like to thank whoever on this blog suggsted Culture Jam because it was really good too. And extremely disturbing. Lots of good scary ideas.
rococco | 11.20.04 - 1:02 am | #

Philalethes - The song was "Albert Flasher" I remember the tune well, but could never seem to make sense of the lyrics.
FeralLiberal | 11.20.04 - 1:03 am | #

Goodnight, room. Goodnight, chair. Goodnight, blog. Goodnight, computer.
the moon

Good night, Moon!!

(I love that book.)
Stinky | 11.20.04 - 1:03 am | #

Wow, writing the NBA and abortion posts made me depressed. I'm sorry if I caused anyone else to feel the same way.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:04 am | #

But, of course, we're too busy hating each other to pay attention to the real reasons why the rest of the world might not like us so well.

Well, sure. But a lot of these reasons do come down to deliberate decisions taken by this administration. Part of what nauseates me about Bush is that even after 9/11 he decided to exacerbate national differences because it was in his political interests to do so. Here's my point. New Yorkers have simultaneously been asked to bear the ordeal of 9/11 and asked to bear the burden of dividing the country because of their liberal snobbery after 11/2. That hurts. In fact, it's really cruel. Actually, I never thought of it that way exactly until I articulated it like that a second ago. Excuse me, I am about to become emotional. Holy shit, in fact... MOTHERFUCKER! MY FAMILY MEMBERS ALMOST FUCKING DIED THAT DAY AND NOW I'M LESS OF A FUCKING AMERICAN BECAUSE THOSE PRICKS ARE MAKING HAY OF THEIR TRAUMA!!!!

Off to deal, sorry...
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:04 am | #

And, frankly, I never cared much for Hasil Adkins.

Me neither, but I do like that song (for lack of a better term).

How about Elvis' classic "Do the Clam"?
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:05 am | #

A.s.H.,

That's a damn good idea. I'm pretty sure they're in different keys, but I'm sure it can be worked around. We did "Sweet Home Alabama" a couple years back, but with your kind permission, I'll definately file that idea away.

Motorhead's "The Chase is Better Than the Kill"?
Philalethes | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:48 am | #

Not to overly pick nits, but it's "The Chase Is Better Than The Catch", but as a true-blue Motorheadbanger, I feel it's my duty. As for "If There's A Hell Below", that's a fucking hard song. Had an idea for Stevie Wonder's "Living For The City", but it's tough as shit, too. The idea is, remember, to pick songs that can be played while higher than shit and drunker than Cooter Jones.

Backslider - since it's Christmas, and the Pogues have been brought up, how about "A Fairy Tale of New York?" You sure don't have to be sober for it.
-
Fielding Mellish | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:53 am | #

We did that one year. Oddly, we rarely do Christmas songs. I've thrown up The Kinks' "Father Christmas" before, but no one's interested. It's pretty hard, too, if I recall.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:08 am | #

Um, you could sing John Prine's "That Flag Decal Won't Get You Into Heaven Any More."
St. Janet the Naughty | 11.20.04 - 1:08 am | #

She was basically a good person. I know that some of you can't understand why I'd say that, but she was.

I understand perfectly how a good person could make a desperately tragic decision when faced with a no win situation such as hers.

There's the rub. The wingnuttery wants to do away with birth control, abortion and NEVER supported family values such as social workers (bleeding heart libs, all)to protect kids from abuse. Hypocrisy reigns supereme in their small, small world.
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 1:09 am | #

CC Rider sucks. Do Sonic Youth's Expessway to Yr Skull for 117 minutes. Not even Sonic Youth would do that. Maybe.

I'm sorry, I really never realized until about 5 minutes ago entirely why I was so full of hatred towards this administration. Dear god, I must have had a fucking block on it. And I am not a nice person my nature. God I feel stupid.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:10 am | #

"Margaritaville" a la the Sex Pistols a few years back

HAW HAW HAW! I can almost hear it now! Parrothead with a mohawk!

*gulp* I can't imagine that Melanie song being within 100 feet of sexy, so I will restrain my curiosity and Just Not Ask...
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:11 am | #

patriotboy, your abortion story got me depressed, too. But I'm pretty much there anyway, so no fault of yours.

Damn, I hate this administration and the people who enable it!
Lindsay | 11.20.04 - 1:12 am | #

The idea is, remember, to pick songs that can be played while higher than shit and drunker than Cooter Jones.

Backslider, how about something by the Replacements, or maybe Flipper?
Mango | 11.20.04 - 1:13 am | #

Monica A,

If you're still here, find Caoch Leather Goods on the web. Get the product # for what you like and then call your local dept. store to see if they carry it. Will save lots of time. Taylor Trunk used to carry some good ones, but not sure if they still do. Good luck!
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 1:13 am | #

Perhaps a bit obvious, but "Soul Man" could be fun.
FeralLiberal | 11.20.04 - 1:13 am | #

Hey, the New York Times is plagiarizing from Atrios.
foobar | 11.20.04 - 1:14 am | #

New Yorkers have simultaneously been asked to bear the ordeal of 9/11 and asked to bear the burden of dividing the country because of their liberal snobbery after 11/2.

Alright, I've put it into words. This has been a general thing I couldn't articulate for a long time. But it's been at the center of why I've been unhappy for just as long. Please tell me--am I right? My Red State friends, is it fair for me to be so goddamn angry about this?
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:15 am | #

Thersites,
CC Rider sucks

Huh? We talking about the same tune?

*gulp* I can't imagine that Melanie song being within 100 feet of sexy, so I will restrain my curiosity and Just Not Ask...
MisterX | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:11 am | #

Dude, you'd a had to known this girl. Seriously, *whew*...

As for the "Margaritaville", it went over like gangbusters. The second best part is seeing the looks on the faces of people as they realize just what the song is. The best part is when they start singing along.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:15 am | #

OT (if that is even possible on an Atriot late-night "chat" thread)

good place to follow the Ohio stories:

http://ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com/

*
backslider--how about Cowboy Junkies? that always gets people happy...well, some kinds of people.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:15 am | #

"Tie a Yellow Ribbon around the Old Oak Tree"? Maybe there's a way to make it palatable - a reggae version?
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 1:17 am | #

I have a friend in Oxnard who is in such mourning over the election results that he is wearing a black arm band.
pb | 11.20.04 - 1:18 am | #

backslider-how about a Ray Charles/Johnny Cash tribute medley, in a hopped up on crank kind of tempo.
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 1:18 am | #

Huh? We talking about the same tune?

Sorry, in grips of overwhelming emotion....

Excellent tune in competent & interested hands. Might as well be in a dentist's office if just going through motions.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:18 am | #

Whenever anyone mentions Motorhead , that first 20 seconds of "Killed By Death "plays in the Excellent speakers in my head, fairly justifies my life and gives me the perfect epitaph ,for future reference ...Fast Eddie, Filthy and big greasy L were at the top of form that day in the studio .

Backslider , I know it isn't in the category , ( but then you threw in Stevie Wonder and so I think the Departments / genre thing is dead by your hand ) but I find myself wondering if something Clash might go ...fairly easy most of it , specially early angry stuff ( it is my duty to say ' The Clash ' whenever possible . RIP Joe) ( and never far from my politics ...see that ...?Clever huh ? I mean Eh?)
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:19 am | #

Off to deal, sorry...
Thersites

Isn't it great? Speaking for myself, I got to breathe clouds of burning flesh and bones for two solid months (are there any non-NY folks here who don't know that the WTC was burning for two straight months?). On a couple occasions, I got literally enveloped in clouds of smoke from burning carcasses.

I got to worry about that anthrax thing day in and day out too...all my mail came from the contaminated sorting facility in midtown. I'm not complaining...Lord knows there were plenty of people who had a lot worse to deal with than me in those terrible days, but it was no picnic all the same.

So anyway, first I get blamed for the disaster by Pat Robertson, 'cause like most New Yorkers I supported gay rights and abortion rights, and then I get called a "Saddam-lover" for not wanting NYC's grief to be exploited for a bullshit war, and then I got called a "hater" for complaining that Bush DID exploit 9/11 for a bullshit war. And I have to get lectured about the "meaning" of 9/11 by guys who spent that day lolling around in some Midwestern trailer park.

Gee...I wonder what could possibly have divided our country so badly?
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:19 am | #

One other thougt is that back in the 70s it seemed that the whole country was totally pro-Israel, as I was myself, but over the years, for many different reasons, I became less so. And I just feel now that it is really important that there is peace in the ME. But I also feel that what we have done has set it back by many years. And I also feel there is no real dialog on the whole issue, either here or anywhere else, which is not a good thing.
rococco | 11.20.04 - 1:19 am | #

Mango,
My now-erstwhile drummer and I are trying to put together a Replacements tribute band. Unfortunately, the two guitarists we want to play Paul Westerberg/Bob Stinson/Slim Dunlap don't drink, and that's key. The whole idea is to get progressively more shit-faced as the night progresses, then end with a trainwreck version of "Can't Hardly Wait".

FeralLiberal,
It's apt, of course, but unfortunately, that tune's up there with "Mustang Sally", "Knock On Wood" and "Sittin' On The Dock Of The Bay" as Soul Songs That Have Been Rendered Uncoverable By Legions of Shitty Bar Bands. If I were so bold as to attempt to be as ungodly cool as Dave Prater and Sam Moore, I'd sing "Soul Sister, Brown Sugar", but sadly, I'm the only soul fan at the joint.

Librarian,
Not a Cowboy Junkies fan. *shrug*
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:20 am | #

Maybe there's a way to make it palatable

Only if you burn it onto an edible CD...
Doozer among Fraggles | 11.20.04 - 1:20 am | #

MOTHERFUCKER! MY FAMILY MEMBERS ALMOST FUCKING DIED THAT DAY AND NOW I'M LESS OF A FUCKING AMERICAN BECAUSE THOSE PRICKS ARE MAKING HAY OF THEIR TRAUMA!!!!

Dude! My sis in law might have gotten whacked that day if she hadn't been really late for work cause of traffic. A friend of mine, his "husband" and their 3 yr. old WERE KILLED in the plane that went into the 2nd tower.

These red state rednecks tell me every day how THEY will never forget 9/11. Fuck them. They hate NY and they hate us.
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 1:22 am | #

Once again the conversation has swung back to drugs. You god damn drug addicts are the reason the Democratic party lost.

Gee, and I thought we lost because Bush is such an incredibly great president, and everyone loves his policies and thinks he's the best man for the job.

Now I find out that us filthy America-haters could have beaten his ass like a gong, if only we'd stayed sober long enough. Shucks.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:23 am | #

The people on Maui are big on the yellow ribbon car stickers. I see them everywhere. Strangely, I've never noticed them in any store. I don't know where they are coming from - maybe the churches? (We've got a lotta churches here.)

Then there are the people who like to stencil memorials to the dead in their rear windows here. I always wonder if someday they will back over a toddler because they couldn't see past the "RIP Grandpa" in their back window. Dangerous and tacky. Nice.
Tony Orlando | 11.20.04 - 1:24 am | #

I'm with ya' Thersites.
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 1:24 am | #

Patriotboy, your story breaks my heart.

I think too many people have grown up believing that women in this country have equal access to family planning and sex education, and that the police are eager to put in jail family members or prominent members of the community who sexually assault young women.

I am truly sorry that American women must suffer cruel indignities so a Republican can further his career by winning the support of fundamentalist wingnuts.
Stinky | 11.20.04 - 1:25 am | #

Thersites-

no one can tell you not to be angry.

and we all hate the way this administration
has used the attacks on people in DC & NYC to con their followers in
states far away and untouched, to
get all blood-lusty and paranoid.

i'm not in a "red state" (PA went for
Kerry, but not by much,) i'm in more
of a purple state. but you'll find all the
shades between "red" and "blue" all over the country (link is in
homepage for the Tena Map, as ever!)

some people are fools. some people
are mean motherfuckers.

most people should know better.

i guess i don't know what to tell you after all! except that you are being used,
and that would piss off the kindest soul.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:26 am | #

backslider-how about a Ray Charles/Johnny Cash tribute medley, in a hopped up on crank kind of tempo.
jeebs | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:18 am | #

Was considered, but I decided not to out of respect. Same goes for Warren Zevon, though I would dearly love to cover "Mr. Bad Example" in some band or another.

Sorry, in grips of overwhelming emotion....
Excellent tune in competent & interested hands. Might as well be in a dentist's office if just going through motions.
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:18 am | #

Understood. That's what I figured, and I can dig. Frankly, I don't how New Yorkers put up with it. And, furthermore, your second assesment is completely correct.

A.s.H.,
Well, first off, I'm not a huge Clash fan, and a lot of that's because of bands ripping off the Clash. Still, if I'm gonna learn a song, I'm gonna really dig it.

And, honestly, I'm shying away from political tunes. It seems a bit heavy handed, especially for a party and especially from a guy who bitches about politics constantly. Most of these kids are on our side, but there's no reason to beat them over the head with it. There's better ways of getting that accomplished. I am, however, seriously considering The Chambers Brothers "Time Has Come Today", mainly because it's not angry but rather a call to action, which is more my general mindset in the first place.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:26 am | #

Backslider,

How about "It Was Christmas Eve" by The Pogues, since Thersites brought them up earlier.
David (Austin TX) | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:27 am | #

casinogal: You got that right.
Who could do that song justice today?
Doozer among Fraggles | 11.20.04 - 1:27 am | #

Hey Anonymous :

No , we lost because just over half the country are Stupid Suckers. Even worse , that half lost the moment they won, wait and see ( or turn on the tv, dumbell)

And to suggest that a friday night joke about a harmless herb is the Whole and total reason for a very narrow defeat proves that You Guys are Too Dumb to hold the power you so crave .

Oh, and all the Bush Voters I know of smoke weed like it is a food group .Bonehead.
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:28 am | #

Oh - another fun tune, Backslider - "Mr. Wrong" by Cracker. Though my favorite Cracker tune is still "Happy Birthday to Me" (because it's just kind of sweet), "Mr. Wrong" is a lot funnier.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 1:29 am | #

Thersites - I think you're exactly right, and am stunned to realize I've never seen this pointed out. On one hand, they try to profit by mentioning WTC, Saddam, and "war on terror" in the same breath and holding the RNC there. On the other hand, they constantly excoriate those "liberal, intellectual, elitist east coasters."

Speaking as a blue person in a light red part of a dark red state, I think a lot of people try to tie themselves in to the WTC attack through things like "my second cousin's fiancee died there" or "my best friend's nephew is serving in Iraq" while repudiating everything else NYC. After all, we're talking people who redefine cognitive dissonance with every political "thought" they have.
-
Fielding Mellish | 11.20.04 - 1:29 am | #

You god damn drug addicts are the reason the Democratic party lost.

I'm neither a Democrat or a drug addict. I'm registered Democrat, yes - can't register independent in Georgia - but I don't feel I should restrict myself to a single party platform. I'll cross over when I feel it's fit and I'll protest when I think the party I'm supporting is stepping out bounds, thank you very much.

And, I'm not a drug addict. I'm a drug entusiast. There's a difference.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:31 am | #

Liberals want to legalize marijuana and other drugs but they want to criminalize smoking.

What are you talking about? I've never known anyone who wanted to criminalize smoking.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:31 am | #

Backslider - One last offering before I crash. "First I Look at the Purse" a la the J. Geils band. A boozy dust up of that one could be grins.
FeralLiberal | 11.20.04 - 1:32 am | #

Jesus, Philalethes...

My extended Irish family is lousy with cousins in the WTC, firefighters & cops who responded... every primal button of mine was pushed on 9/11. And to have THAT turned into bonus Indiana votes for Shrub to pad his majority giving him "political capital," and then to be called an "elitist"... and to have it pretty much baldly stated by media wankers that those Indiana motherfuckers are more moral than I am at least in part BECAUSE OF 9/11...

Oh God I am a boy from Bayside, Queens, in the deepest part of my soul, and please My Lord of Vengeance Give me Someone to Hit.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:33 am | #

I have another serious question. Why do conservatives hate the environment?
up2date | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:33 am | #

As for the "Margaritaville", it went over like gangbusters. The second best part is seeing the looks on the faces of people as they realize just what the song is. The best part is when they start singing along. - Backslider

Backslider, you made me laugh out loud there. What's funny to me is that when I lived in Florida the goddam tourists would ALWAYS REQUEST BUFFET TUNES, and when the bar bands grudgingly obliged, they would ALL SING ALONG. It drove us fucking NUTS.

I can just imagine.

Sorry about the SHOUTING!
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:34 am | #

Please tell me--am I right? My Red State friends, is it fair for me to be so goddamn angry about this?

You cannot even seriously ask if you are correct about this. OF FARKIN" course you are. NY get slimed as sin city while Vegas IS sin city, yet it's RED, so sin is OK there.

After 9/11, I only slept 4 or 5 hours most nights. I lost weight I didn't need to loose and had a semi-permanant stone in my gut and lump in my throat. I had so many friends and family members living or working in NYC and it was impossible to get to them all for days after 9-11. It has taken me years to even be calm about it.
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 1:36 am | #

Conservatives don't hate the environment; they hate having to take responsibility. If poisoning everyone saves a few bucks and no one forces them to take measures to avoid poisoning everyone, or to clean up the messes they've already created, they can't be bothered with being responsible.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 1:37 am | #

And conservatives want to keep pot illegal while tobacco and alcohol are completely legal, even though they cause more deaths yearly than all illegal drugs combined. And tobaccoo is more addictive than cocain. Alcohol does more damage to the body and kills brain cells faster than pot. The current draconian war on drugs does little more than keep prices up for the supply side and turn harmless stoners into hardened criminals.

And conservatives are fine and dandy with that. Figure that out. For what it's worth, I've never seen anyone serious call for the criminalization of tobacco, just a push for companies to take responsibility for providing a product that not only has no redeeming value whatsoever, it's actively harmful to the consumer. As for alcohol, do we even wanna discuss how much a roll it plays in traffic fatalities, abused families, poor work performance, it's burden on the health care industry and rowdy behavior by football fans?

But personally, I say smoke 'em if you got 'em. And drink up, conservatives!
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:37 am | #

Then you don't live in California.
casinogal

Yes, I do. Smoking in a restaurant next to me is not the same thing as smoking at home or in your car.

Know why?

(All together now): 'Cause your rights end where mine begin!
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:37 am | #

BAckslider: Gotcha , point taken , I'll stick with my Skynard/ N. Young suggestion. Just tossing out ideas, knowing full well the Clash is always a risky topic.

Thersites: I have a theory that the thirst for revenge bombing and nationalistic jingoism increases with the distance from the crater...New York seems to have voted for a more reasoned pursuit of culprits rather than the middle of the country ( NOT ALL, I KNOW !) who never had any planes fly into anything ( but a field) seems fine with Torching anyone Brown who looks menacing...

Man jerks like Anon make me see red...Pun intended .

You know what shrinks say about people who make crank phone calls ?
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:37 am | #

I'm for legalization of drugs. If it ever happens, I'd also support banning pot smoking in restaurants. I don't see a contradiction there.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:39 am | #

We did horrible, horrible things to "L.A. Woman" and "Free Bird" a couple years ago. No song deserves what we did.

Beg to differ. Free Bird deserved it. I haven't listened to "Classic Rock" in years, but I'm still sick to death of that song. That and fucking Do You Feel like We Do?, by Frampton.
Hey, there's an idea, your band can all get shitfaced and mangle that sonofabitch for good and all. A Public Service kinda thing. Tape it, and flog it on yer blog.
Doozer among Fraggles | 11.20.04 - 1:39 am | #

Thersites no one cares what NYC thinks about who should be president. "9/11 changed everything" except basic ignorance hahaha (bitter laugh)
No one cares, either what the military vote was now do they?
Must be all those "No Exit" signs in Iraq (pardon the Sartre) no exit polls from Kirkuk or Mosul or Fallujah.
Sigh.
I'm going to think on Backslider's question next (music)
cgreen | 11.20.04 - 1:39 am | #

like anyone anywhere needs one
more GODDAMNED "anonymous"
asshat with an opinion.

get a room, pal. no one wants to see
that kind of thing up close.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:40 am | #

And, I'm not a drug addict. I'm a drug entusiast. There's a difference.
Backslider

Fuckin A Bubba...
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:41 am | #

Backslider - One last offering before I crash. "First I Look at the Purse" a la the J. Geils band. A boozy dust up of that one could be grins.
FeralLiberal | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:32 am | #

Nashville Pussy actually did that on their first album, the magnificently titled Let Them Eat Pussy. But it's another idea worth considering, if I could think of a suitable tune to mangle in such a manner.

MisterX,
Been there, man, been there. I get hives when I hear "Old Time Rock & Roll" for the very reason.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:41 am | #

I can't get my daughter to brush her teeth and she is 13! What is worse is she is the only one in the house who has never had a cavity in her life so I am having to rethink my position.
George Johnston | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:42 am | #

Try doing anything by The Carpenters.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:43 am | #

Thersites, an Irish NY family displaced to red state in early 1900s still outraged Mr. Bush could use 9/11 to his advantage. Give me some smiting here too Lord.
cgreen | 11.20.04 - 1:43 am | #

Dude! My sis in law might have gotten whacked that day if she hadn't been really late for work cause of traffic. A friend of mine, his "husband" and their 3 yr. old WERE KILLED in the plane that went into the 2nd tower.

I am so sorry for your loss.

Lord, they really are terrified that we may soon start to see each other as family, every one, aren't they?
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:43 am | #

"The Time has come today". Excellent. It gets so little play it ought to sound new. The Chambers Brothers seem not to have cracked the Rolling Stones' 500 best list.
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 1:44 am | #

You god damn drug addicts are the reason the Democratic party lost.

I'd like to think drug addicts like Noelle Bush and Rush Limbaugh made us lose the election - it would be much easier to bitch and blame others like Republicans always do.
Stinky | 11.20.04 - 1:44 am | #

I am, however, seriously considering The Chambers Brothers "Time Has Come Today", mainly because it's not angry but rather a call to action, which is more my general mindset in the first place.

Steve Earle did a great cover of that....albeit with Sheryl Crow.

There's always Edwin Starr's War, but now we're getting back into angry

if you can pull off pfunk, I'd rec Unfunky UFO

"You've got all that is really needed
To save a dying world
From its funklessness"
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 1:45 am | #

Time to crash, but in parting I offer the following observation:

Trolling an open thread as "Anonymous" is probably the all-time definition of wanker.
-
Fielding Mellish | 11.20.04 - 1:45 am | #

I think the main thing I think about 9/11 at this point is that if Bush could push a button today that would undo it all, and erase everyone's memories of that day, and bring everyone who died back to life, and let his term go by without a terrorist attack on American soil...he wouldn't do it. Hell, not only would he not do it, but he'd have the button destroyed so no one else could push it.

The fact is, 9/11 was the single best thing that ever happened to him in his entire life, and he wouldn't trade it for the world.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:45 am | #

Beg to differ. Free Bird deserved it. I haven't listened to "Classic Rock" in years, but I'm still sick to death of that song.
Doozer among Fraggles | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:39 am | #
I'm a Skynyrd fanatic and I can feel your pain. I don't mind "Free Bird" once in a while, but "Sweet Home Alabama"...

And you didn't hear what we did. God, it was horrible. I wound up having to sing because both the other guys forgot the words. At one point during the solo - which was a trainwreck from start to finish - I noticed someone was way, way off, and looked over to see the keyboard player puking into a can.

It went past funny into the realm of a bit uncomfortable, like watching a couple having a screaming fight where one's mother winds up being mentioned.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:46 am | #

Clash is always a risky topic. - A.s.H

Hey Backslider, how about "Bankrobber"? I know it's not by the Clash, but their version made me think of it...
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:48 am | #

Just got my latest Scientific American. Not only is there an article on the brain's cannabinoid receptors, but the editorial strongly advocates more cannabinoid research.

Anandamide. Such a pleasant word. Why is it so hard to remember?
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 1:48 am | #

Thersites, an Irish NY family

Second-generation Irish via Bay Ridge, myself.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:48 am | #

Anonymous - what a stupid argument.

It's illegal to drive under the influence of intoxicants of any type. This has no bearing upon whether people should be free to, within the privacy of their own homes, indulge in using intoxicating substances.

Blaming drugs for the fucked up things some people do is like blaming guns for crime. Inanimate objects don't cause problems; the people using them do.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 1:49 am | #

Motown?
rococco | 11.20.04 - 1:50 am | #

oy. bad troll makes Librarian say bad words.

clearly past my bedtime.

another day, another...day?

peace to all.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:50 am | #

Try doing anything by The Carpenters.
patriotboy

Or maybe Muskrat Love. No anger there, no siree.
Doozer among Fraggles | 11.20.04 - 1:50 am | #

Tony O. 0

Gawd, I thought only my little area of SoCal did that back window memorial thing. Really disgusting. Ranks right up there with the little stick figures of the whole family. If I'm not flying one of those yellow ribbon thingies, does that mean I don't support the troops???
casinogal | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:29 am | #

----------------

Yeah, it's really odd. Some of the window memorials take up the entire window. I'd never seen anything like that before I moved here. I would've thought that it would be illegal to obstruct your window, but apparently nobody gives a shit.

We have a lot of roadside home-made grave markers here too. Maui is a great place to get into a head-on collision.
Tony Orlando | 11.20.04 - 1:51 am | #

Someone driving an auto while stoned on a marijuana cigarrette is just as dangerous as a drunk. You show me the scientific studies that prove marijuana does not impair motor functions. Marijuana is also dangerous because users have no idea what they are going to get. Some of it might be more powerfull than they can handle.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:46 am | #

So alcohol's "safer" because people "know what they're gonna get"? What a re-goddamn-diculous argument. Like there's never been some dumbass stock broker fighting off his friends because he can "handle his liquor and drive".

And again, alcohol does worse damage to the body, mind and motorskills than weed, even on a long period of time. Even if pot were worse, why's booze fine and pot's not? And, of course, no one ever said a single thing about regulating pot intake or restricting sale to minors or any of the regulations on alcohol.

Geez...that "it's either black or white" mentality I can't understand, especially when you're dealing with a case "black or another shade of black".
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:51 am | #

Someone driving an auto while stoned on a marijuana cigarrette is just as dangerous as a drunk.
Anonymous

You know what? Shut the fuck up. Reasonable people are discussing reasonable things here...you don't like pot, don't smoke it.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:51 am | #

I am so sorry for your loss.

Lord, they really are terrified that we may soon start to see each other as family, every one, aren't they?
Thersites

Thank you, dear heart. You have no idea how lonely a feeling it is to have your personal loss diminished for political appeal to ignorant rednecks that are under no threat.
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 1:52 am | #

I am, however, seriously considering The Chambers Brothers "Time Has Come Today", mainly because it's not angry but rather a call to action, which is more my general mindset in the first place.

Steve Earle did a great cover of that....albeit with Sheryl Crow.

So did the Ramones. Well, actually.

Someone driving an auto while stoned on a marijuana cigarrette is just as dangerous as a drunk. You show me the scientific studies that prove marijuana does not impair motor functions. Marijuana is also dangerous because users have no idea what they are going to get. Some of it might be more powerfull than they can handle.

You do less well than the Ramones, scmuck. Saying that you're no more or less impaired on reefer than on booze is irrelevant, as booze is legal. And with legalization we'd presumably have the same standards for THC content as we do for alcohol content.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:52 am | #

Just a tip: some may use "liberal, intellectual, elitist east coasters" to mean Jews. (I'm old enough to remember when the words "those people" meant them.)
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 1:53 am | #

Thought about doing "The Harder They Come" by Jimmy Cliff, too. Another apropos song, on several levels. However, I fear I'm far too white for such a tune.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:53 am | #

I'd be anonymous too if I were that dumb...
Warren Terra | 11.20.04 - 1:55 am | #

NYC and Brooklyn (John O'Connor)
Rochester (Thomas O'Connor)

Thomas stole a pig to get fare from Kerry to USA where he worked for the RR, working up to "Superintendent of Tracks" His brother John, active at Tammany Hall, was once asked "would you vote for a Democrat Satan running against the R Angel Michael. He said he would vote for Satan, who showed better sense.
Roots run deep, there will be no political squabbles around our family tables: Bush voters among us zero so far.
cgreen | 11.20.04 - 1:55 am | #

Nobody has ever died of an overdose of cannabis. Whatever else you might want to say about it, it's pretty damned safe.
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 1:55 am | #

What's funny about this driving while stoned argument is that out of all the stoners I've known, not a single one has ever been in an accident while stoned, though many of them have driven while stoned.

Probably a function of paranoia/over-cautiousness. Your typical stoned driver is more likely to be driving under the speed limit.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 1:55 am | #

My kids went to a day camp this summer, and the only thing that saved the interminable campfire on the last night was the counsellor that led a version of "I'm a little teapot" to the tune of "we will rock you." Singing one song to the tune and rhythm of another can be very satisfying.
Eric U. | 11.20.04 - 1:56 am | #

Backslider,

How about Jimmy Newman's "Alligator Man"?
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:56 am | #

Just watched 'Control Room' on DVD. If you haven't watched it already, do get hold of a copy. The development of the relationship between the US spin doctor and the Al-Jazeera editor (the big guy who appeared on the Daily Show) is fascinating: I know that they toured together to promote the movie.

'People like victory. They don't like justifications.'

So true on so many levels.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 1:57 am | #

Thersites, an Irish NY family

Second-generation Irish via Bay Ridge, myself.

Must... resist... cannot... primal feeling too strong... in DNA somewhere... aaaaaahg!....

Jeez, from Brooklyn?

Thought you said you were Irish. Huh.

ahhhag! It burns, it burns! Cannot escape parochial idotic borough-based competition, much like the dozens in structure... hard wiring in NYC schoolyards too deeply laid...)
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:58 am | #

Backslider --

Nice to see a 'Mats fan outside the Minneapolis area (well, I'm outside the Minneapolis area, I have no idea where you are).

As such, it is your duty to do an intoxicated, sloppy, Replacements-style cover, preferably with the wrong lyrics (you ever heard their brilliant "Last Train To Clarksville/I'm In Trouble"?).
Alex | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:59 am | #

Legalize it. Don't criticize it.
Tony Orlando | 11.20.04 - 2:00 am | #

Singing one song to the tune and rhythm of another can be very satisfying.

Try "Amazing Grace" to the tune of "Gilligan's Island"
Warren Terra | 11.20.04 - 2:00 am | #

And with legalization we'd presumably have the same standards for THC content as we do for alcohol content.
Thersites

The idea of someone driving after smoking pot is scary, but the reality is that it's a red herring - someone impaired on Nyquil is just as dangerous, maybe more dangerous, than the doobie smoking stoner on his way to get a pint of Ben and Jerry's.
Stinky | 11.20.04 - 2:01 am | #

well there is that old joke about stoned drivers only going six miles an hour....

that said, I'm very much the original old lady nag on the subject of driving under the influence. Ain't nothing so important-including getting home-- that you got to drive drunk or stoned to get there. I've been known to hide car keys in my freezer to keep my guests from driving.

yeah, I make my own fun
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 2:01 am | #

Bullshit, I know your fucking kind. Your motto is live high or die.

That is absolute genius. This is seriously the hardest I've laughed all day!

Ya know what my motto is, brothers and sisters?

Live high or die!

Can't wait to tell my wife that I've found the solution to the midlife doldrums. Live high or die!

I'm gonna go read some Jacob Boehme now. Know why? 'Cause my motto is live high or die!

I might have some eggnog-flavored soy ice cream, too. Live high or die!
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:02 am | #

You have no idea how lonely a feeling it is to have your personal loss diminished for political appeal to ignorant rednecks that are under no threat.

Sorry Thersites. Of course you do. I meant Amurika at large.
bigvic | 11.20.04 - 2:03 am | #

I would be willing to bet some of you have avoided certain jobs because they have drug testing.

Fuck, I refuse jobs that drug-test on principle, and I don't even do anything that would show up (unless I have a poppyseed bagel for breakfast).

In my home country, 'taking the piss' means (figuratively) ridiculing someone. In the US, they do it literally.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 2:03 am | #

Anonymouse, who are you and why do you suck?
roadmap to pieces | 11.20.04 - 2:03 am | #

Actually, I remember reading an article that said cops generally prefer - if they had to chose - pulling over pot smokers to drunk drivers. Less belligerent, for one, of course, and generally the worst impairment to driving while stoned is a marked sluggishness in motorskills and attentiveness. They rarely speed, too.
Backslider

And why are pot smokers driving? Probably because they're hungry. They're not looking for trouble, they just want to find an open drive through so they can go home and watch "I Love Lucy" while having a nice snack.
Stinky | 11.20.04 - 2:03 am | #

OT

Anybody remember that Beavis N Butthead episode where Butthead chokes on a chicken nugget? Then Beavis inadvertantly makes Butthead spit out the offending morsel, THEN picks it up, sticks it in his mouth and promptly starts choking . . . immediatley repeating history?

The current neo-con blather about Iran reminds me of that.

All this talk about Iran
Dub | 11.20.04 - 2:04 am | #

hard wiring in NYC schoolyards too deeply laid...)

Hey, lace-curtain Irish here. Whaddaya got against Bay Ridge? Too close to the Guinea Gangplank for ya?
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:04 am | #

Anonymous - there are a lot of ways people can destroy their lives. Alchoholism. Materialism. Cultism. Willful ignorance.

We don't outlaw any of those things. Freedom means having the right to do stupid things and fuck up your life. You're free to walk in front of a moving bus, even though it's not a smart thing to do. Unless you can show how a person fucking up their own life has caused physical or monetary harm to another person, the government ought to butt the hell out. The alternative is to assign each of us a nanny to make sure we don't walk in front of any moving buses.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 2:04 am | #

methinks Anonymous is, as they say down here in Texas, "all hopped up on dope"/aka "snortin' that there mariJUwanna"
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 2:04 am | #

Bullshit, I know your fucking kind.

Oh, obviously! I'm sure you've read all about "our kind".

Your motto is live high or die.

Actually, my motto is "live happily and then die." Might as well do the former cause the latter's gonna happen anyway no matter what you do. And, frankly, pot doesn't make me happy. I make me happy. Pot just lends to the general good vibes. You, however, don't sound like a very happy person.

I would be willing to bet some of you have avoided certain jobs because they have drug testing.

Well, ya got me there. But actually, I did the same thing before I started smoking. I find such an invasion of privacy by an employer or the government (drug testing in sports, ya know) abhorrent. Don't ya just hate when someone starts telling you what to do on your own hour? Now, granted, there's certain jobs that require a clear mind, but they ain't at Wal-Mart. Granted, you can also come into your job as an airline pilot hungerover as hell or, if your slick, all liquored up.

Regular marijuana use will destroy someones life. They go underground, they change their lifestyle. I've seen it and so have you.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:56 am | #

Holy mackeral. You really need to get some more info outside of Reefer Madness, dude. I do know some burnouts, but they'd be burnouts without pot (and most of the real gone cases did tons of acid, as well, which skewers things somewhat). Haven't you ever watched Jerry Springer, for cryin' out loud?

And once again, if you're so concerned with pot "destroying people's lives" why aren't you fighting to get alcohol outlawed? Jesus H. Christ, pot's already illegal. Shouldn't you be looking at existing rights you can restrict?
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:05 am | #

The alternative is to assign each of us a nanny to make sure we don't walk in front of any moving buses.

Yep. And that would be a "Nanny State." And no one wants to live in one of those.

Especially people whose motto is "live high or die," like me.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:06 am | #

ha ha. borough envy.

If it makes you feel any better J O'C never considered Brooklyn home, only he had been transferred there by work.

I am considering serious study of the absolute tat some of my relations treasured in relation to their mother country. It fascinates me. None of us seem to have kept the hatreds, which is good. Only the love. Damn liberals.
cgreen | 11.20.04 - 2:07 am | #

Oh, obviously! I'm sure you've read all about "our kind".

We're the kind of girls he's read about in new-wave magazines, as Rick James would say
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:08 am | #

Live high or die, my bitches!
Warren Terra | 11.20.04 - 2:08 am | #

Perhaps this belongs on earlier porno thread, oh well--

A pompous minister was seated next to a TEXAN on a flight to Dallas.
> > > After
> > > the plane was airborne, drink orders were taken. The TEXAN asked for
a
> > > whiskey and soda, which was brought and placed before him.
> > >
> > > The flight attendant then asked the minister if he would like a drink.
> > >
> > > He replied in disgust, "I'd rather be savagely raped by brazen whores
> > > than
> > > let liquor touch my lips."
> > >
> > > The TEXAN looked at the minister, then handed his drink back to the
> > > attendant and said, "I didn't know we had a choice.
cgreen | 11.20.04 - 2:08 am | #

favorite stoned-ism of all time.

Acting as designated driver, I once took a very altered mrs. jeebs to Wendy's because she was jonesin' for a Frosty.

as we were waiting in line in the drive through lane, she, in the most lebowski-esque delivery possible, inquired,

"Man! Have they put Joni Mitchell on a stamp yet?"
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

Thersites and others: wow, you've put it so eloquently here. Your phrase, "New Yorkers have simultaneously been asked to bear the ordeal of 9/11 and asked to bear the burden of dividing the country because of their liberal snobbery after 11/2" should be repeated and repeated over and over until someone pays the fuck attention. Damn straight. We need to code that down to a bumper sticker and put it EVERYwhere...
Lynne | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

Only the love.

Yes, begob. Only the fats of it...the heart and the health of it.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

Actually, I would prefer "Live high and prosper."
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

Fuck, I refuse jobs that drug-test on principle, and I don't even do anything that would show up - pseudonymous in nc

Hell,I refuse to SHOP in businesses that overtly brag about their policy of drug-testing ALL potential employees, i.e. my local Home Depot...

I've resented that kind of shit since I had to take a LIE DETECTOR test back in the mid 1980s to work in a CONVENIENCE STORE! For $3.45 or some such shit, no less.

I'm SHOUTING again. Sorry. Time for bed...
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

Okay, that is my last laugh of the night. Must pull hands away from keyboard.
EkCenTrik | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

Hey, lace-curtain Irish here. Whaddaya got against Bay Ridge? Too close to the Guinea Gangplank for ya?

What for ya askin me for? Wasn't ain't me on the Last Train to Wopville, motherfucker.

(God, I'm quoting. Growing up, I thought All in the Family was a documentary...)
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

And if yer still taking suggestions, 'Slider, i can't make up my mind here, so I'll go with both of 'em;
Tom Waits' Filipino Box Spring Hog, or his Big In Japan. (Both from "Mule Variations")
Doozer among Fraggles | 11.20.04 - 2:10 am | #

(you ever heard their brilliant "Last Train To Clarksville/I'm In Trouble"?).
Alex | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:59 am | #

I'm hip. I got a thing about getting the words and medley right, at least. Gotta respect the song (which is why I loathe "ironic" covers).

Stinky,
That does happen from time to time, but only when the pizza dude refuses to come for the sixth time that week.

Jennifer mentioned the paranoia aspect of driving while stoned. Driving stoned isn't fun at all, frankly. You get hyper-alert and itchy as hell. I quit that shit quick, because a hairtrigger will go off by accident eventually.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:10 am | #

while i understand that many people are disappointed in kerry's loss, i don't get the deep pessimism. nothing is new under the sun. this has all happened before and life goes on.

if the feeling of foreboding is real, then do something about it. if you really believe that the president is going to start another war and/or impoverish everyone, then stop him.

if you knew a person is coming to your home to rob and maybe even kill you, would you just wait and submit?
or you would do something to stop him?
scott | 11.20.04 - 2:10 am | #

Anybody remember that Beavis N Butthead episode where Butthead chokes on a chicken nugget? Then Beavis inadvertantly makes Butthead spit out the offending morsel, THEN picks it up, sticks it in his mouth and promptly starts choking . . . immediatley repeating history?

The current neo-con blather about Iran reminds me of that.

All this talk about Iran
Dub

So good, it bears repeating.
Lynne | 11.20.04 - 2:11 am | #

Some of it might be more powerfull than they can handle.

You've never smoked pot, have you.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:12 am | #

Live high or die, my bitches!
Warren Terra

We're going to smoke pot, we're going to smoke crack, we're going to shoot heroin, we're going to drop acid!

YEEEEEAAaaaaarrrgggh!
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:12 am | #

Jesus H. Christ, pot's already illegal. Shouldn't you be looking at existing rights you can restrict?

oh, but he's applying the same steely legal tenacity that the 'pukes have with gay marriage, see?

one law against it just isn't ENOUGH, dammit!

LHOD!
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 2:13 am | #

and then there is this nyt guy by the name of bob herbert. must be comping for a job at the wsj.

consider his op-ed in 19/11/04 nyt. heralding his piece, a quote, " A WHITE HOUSE THAT SENDS THE WISER HEADS PACKING."

excuse me, no bush regime has ever had a wise head amongst its myrmidons. oafs and bootlickers only.

i vomit when i read colon[as in shit-filled entity] powell lionized. colon has always been a negro war criminal. being a general does not make you an honorable human being. never forget all those other generals that most of us would identify as war criminals. you know the names, don't you?

how about these for starters...curtis lemay, william westmoreland.

what was it about colon? did you excuse his gangsterism because he was a negro?

now, there is a fine form of racism. OK for negro generals to advocate and manage the murdering of vast numbers of wogs[a brit term of derision that works in this instance], but not OK for non-negroes to manage genocide.

hmmm. perhaps there is someone out there who can explain this strange moral squinting to me.

just so there will be no misunderstanding, i consider colon powell one of the most evil amerikans ever to float to the top. he has been a running dog, a lackey to the gangster state. he has had no scruples for at least the last 20 years of his kowtowing to the white dicks running amerika. a thoroughly immoral man.

and condi rice is his spawn. another bit of moral scum. finally, it has been revealed that there is no difference in the races....black scum = white scum.

saints preserve us all.
albertchampion | 11.20.04 - 2:14 am | #

You are WRONG about employer drug tests. Lets say you had a job where you worked around heavy equipment or had to ride in a truck. Lets say on the first day of the job you discovered the driver smoked marijuana or the crane operator was a regular smoker of pot. I don't think you would find the 'motor skills' argument very plausible then. You would be concerned for your safety.
Anonymous | 11.20.04 - 2:15 am | #

"Man! Have they put Joni Mitchell on a stamp yet?"
jeebs | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

Appropriately enough, I just blew a half-pipe of middie over my keyboard. My equally altered brother - usually a very stoic, laid-back individual - once asked a Krystal's drive-thru window if it thought aliens were among us.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:15 am | #

My friend applied for a job a Blockbuster one time. During her interview they told her that they hair-test, she laughed in their faces and walked out.

Yeah, we don't want any stoners renting out video tapes. Dangerous stuff.
Tony Orlando | 11.20.04 - 2:15 am | #

Pot will mess up your chromosomes and make you rape white women. Your better off sticking to corn liquor.
Gen JC Christian, patriot | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:16 am | #

Especially people whose motto is "live high or die," like me.

That's actually not a half bad motto. Beats the crap out of Prufrock's. Or Gabriel Conroy's. Thanks cgreen, bigvic. This fight is NOT over. Fuck 'em.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:16 am | #

You are WRONG about employer drug tests. Lets say you had a job where you worked around heavy equipment or had to ride in a truck.

Let's fucking say I don't. I'm sure you'd have wanted Miles Davis piss-tested before he stepped on stage, eh, fuckstick?
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 2:16 am | #

My company started drug testing new applicants before I, and the rest of the owners, were aware of it. We stopped it - not strictly out of concern that we might not have passed if our piss had been put to the test, but because we didn't want to lose the people who might refuse.

The ranting management guru Mike Peters said we tell people that trust is one of our highest values, then demand that you piss into a cup before we'll hire you.

If an employee screws up on the job, that's a problem. What she does at home is not.
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 2:17 am | #

You would be concerned for your safety.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:15 am | #

I guess if the driver was hung-over or the crane operator had been a raving alcoholic for twenty years, it'd be hunky dory, right? Great day in the mornin', son; do you not see the lapse in logic for that sort of argument?
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:17 am | #

Anonymous - actually, unless they were stoned on the job, I wouldn't care at all. In fact, I'd much rather be around guys operating heavy machinery who got stoned the night before rather than got really drunk the night before and showed up for work hung over. The same goes for the pilot flying my plane.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 2:18 am | #

Man, am I ever late to the party. I don't even know what the question was! Of course, I had about 6 beers for dinner, so I'm not a hunnerd percent.

Oh, and Thersites, I'm with you re the 9/11 indignity. I remember walking around my neighborhood the days after 9/11, having to show ID because 14th St. was the cut-off (I live on West 14th, but many of my friends live below it) and the place was lined with army trucks, soldiers, firefighters, cops, ambulances, sirens wailing 24/7, helicopters in constant hover mode. It was a war zone. The next night, a fighter jet flew low overhead, and I braced myself for an explosion. I was a wreck.

And now these fuckwits who think slapping a goddamned "support the troop" magnet on their hulking SUVs somehow makes them more patriotic than me tell me I'M to blame? FUCK YOU.
watertiger | 11.20.04 - 2:18 am | #

The wildwood flower grew wild on the farm,
And we never knowed what it was called.
Some said it was a flower and some said it was weed,
I never gave it much thought ...
One day I was out there talking to my brother,
Reached down for a weed to chew on,
Things got fuzzy and things got blurry,
And then everything was gone!
Didn't know what happened,
But I knew it beat the hell out of sniffin' burlap.

I come to and my brother was there,
And he said, What's wrong with your eyes?
I said, I don't know, I was chewing on a weed.
He said, Let me give it a try.
We spent the rest of that day and most of that night,
Trying to find my brother, Bill.
Caught up with him, 'bout six o'clock the next morning,
Naked, swinging on the wind mill!
He said he flew up there.
I had to fly up there and bring him down,
He was about half crazy .....

The very next day we picked a bunch of them weeds,
And put 'em in the sun to dry.
Then we mashed 'em up and chopped 'em up,
And put 'em in the corncob pipe.
Smokin' that wildwood flower got to be a habit,
We didn't see no harm.
We thought it was kind of handy,
Take a trip and never leave the farm!

All good things gotta come to an end,
And it's the same with the wildwood weed.
One day this feller from Washington came by,
And he spied and turned white as a sheet.
Then they dug and they burned,
And they burned and they dug,
And they killed all our cute little weeds.
Then they drove away,
We just smiled and waved ..........
Sittin' there on that sack of seeds!
Gen JC Christian, patriot | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:18 am | #

I would be willing to bet some of you have avoided certain jobs because they have drug testing.

Anonymous, people who use drugs know how to dupe those tests. The ironic thing is that some of the most dangerous drugs, like cocaine, pass through one's system so quickly that a drug test administered on a Monday wouldn't even pick up someone's weekend drug use.

The reason I know this is because I'm not a drug user, but worked for an employer that made drug testing an employment condition - and I was wrongly accused of trying to falsify a drug test.

I always assumed because I didn't use drugs I'd never have to worry about passing a test. Wrong. The tests are a poor indicator of who uses drugs and who doesn't.

BTW, the HR person at my company who ultimatley got fired over this incident could also tell you the same thing.
Stinky | 11.20.04 - 2:20 am | #

Jim Stafford is a genius. Yippie yi yo, Cow Patty!
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:20 am | #

Lets say on the first day of the job you discovered the driver smoked marijuana or the crane operator was a regular smoker of pot.

Long as they don't smoke it on the job, what the fuck do I care? I've worked construction with guys with hangovers, and let me tell you...there's blood spurting in all directions. Nail guns into thighs, knocking out teeth with the claw end of the hammer, falling down ladders with tarpaper roll under one arm. No one ever tested anyone for a hangover, that I remember.

I don't smoke pot. I don't like it. But anyone who thinks it's more dangerous than alcohol is nuts. I know ten people drank themselves to death...don't know a soul who died from pot.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:20 am | #

No, you have a lapse in logic. You said you 'objected' to employer drug tests. I just gave you an airtight reason why they should exist. To protect employees. No one on the job is going to differentiate between a stoned or drunk crane operator. They are endangering everyone and it is the employer's job to screen them out.
Anonymous | 11.20.04 - 2:21 am | #

I propose that someone more brave than my self produce a sticker that fits in those stupid, moronic, meaningless yellow ribbons that reads "Anyone But Me", and then place them in all that you see out and about.
Dub | 11.20.04 - 2:22 am | #

Has anyone seen the latest atrocity from Iraq?

We raided a mosque DURING the Friday prayers, not after as the whore media claimed this morning.

We shot 4 dead, wounded 20, and arrested a bunch.

This is covered in a harrowing story at http://dahrjamailiraq.com

This is bound to blowback all over us.

What in the hell does Chimpy think he's doing? If he can't rein in these mad hatter neo-cons, then you can bet your last buck that we'll end up a hell of a lot poorer for this outrage. If Chimpy is not in charge, then who is? Ariel Sharon?

This is not going to work very well, Chimpy!
boilerman10 | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:24 am | #

I just gave you an airtight reason why they should exist. To protect employees.

How does a drug test prove that someone's stoned on the job? What if someone only smokes on Saturday night?

No one's forcing you to be this stupid and crazy, you know. You can stop anytime you want, with a little willpower.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:24 am | #

That's the lunacy behind drug testing: the janitor at the hospital where you're having brain surgery has to piss in a cup, while the surgeon cutting open your skull does not. And as noted, drug tests generally only detect pot use, because its residues reside in the body for a longer period of time. Meanwhile, the cokeheads and meth users slip through.

If you're worried about a pothead driving a forklift, you don't even want to think about a speed freak driving one.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 2:24 am | #

...asked a Krystal's drive-thru window if it thought aliens were among us.
Backslider

Please do not mention Krystal's when I'm stoned. Please.

Oh, goddammit, now I'm gonna have to drive to a White Castle...
MisterX | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:24 am | #

I don't smoke pot. Why? Because I moved to a part of the country with a job as a Respectable Citizen and thus lost contact with anyone who would sell to me directly, and maintaining contacts in other cities is a hassle. It's no big deal, really, but I fail to see how our biennial trip to great NY wineries is any morally superior to a prospective biennial trip to interesting NY pot farms. In either case, we're successful bourgeois types with nice lives: the difference lies solely in how we every so often decide to alter our brain chemistry. Wine, reefer, who cares? Sheesh.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:25 am | #

Anonymous,
I still object to them, and you're airtight reason fails for one reason: drunks won't get canned via the piss test.

Keep it simple, then. Do you advocate the criminalization of alcohol in the same manner as marijuana? If not, why?
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:25 am | #

all this talk about pot makes me want to roll a nice slim one. you know i've sometimes wondered why the govt is so nazi-ish over drugs. a mellowed out public is much easier to control.
jill | 11.20.04 - 2:25 am | #

re the nyc/911 piece, did you guys notice J Stewart a week or so ago, twice, tried the same bit on a similiar tack: NYC voters might just happen to know a llittle bit more about terrorism and gays than the rest of the nation, having actually been attacked and actually having a huge gay population, yet their opinions are dismissed as being out of the mainstream.
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 2:25 am | #

BTW, the HR person at my company who ultimatley got fired over this incident could also tell you the same thing.

Funny, the HR director at my last job was an alcoholic who was also incredibly inappropriate. You could usually find her out on the corner tippling from her flask.
watertiger | 11.20.04 - 2:26 am | #

All this talk about pot and I've just now fired up my pipe. I'm proud of my manly self-restraint. Live high or die, huh?

My attitude towards the election is: living well is the best revenge.
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 2:27 am | #

On the job drug use is very common. Many employers look the other way because they are 'good workers.'
Anonymous | 11.20.04 - 2:28 am | #

I tell you, you have not lived dangerously 'til you've worked in a chemistry lab with a drunk who's trying to pour sulfuric acid into a test tube from a 1.5 liter bottle.

Don't be talking to me at all. I known that crowd, and known them well.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:28 am | #

And now these fuckwits who think slapping a goddamned "support the troop" magnet on their hulking SUVs somehow makes them more patriotic than me tell me I'M to blame? FUCK YOU.

The weird thing, from my perspective, is that NYC is still considered the 'enemy without' for many Americans-suffocated-by-lack-of-ocean. (Apart from when they're seeking out whores at the GOP convention, of course. And perhaps even then. It's not like you're going to be cheating on your wife with a 'real American'.)

You just know that there are people who, even as they slap 'Never Forget' stickers on their SUVs think, as their talk radio hosts tell them, that NYC had it coming on account of all those sinners and sodomites and swarthy types. 'We haven't been hit since 9/11' too easily resolves into 'well, we haven't been hit here in God-fearing America'. (Tell that to the people of OKC.)

And Bush's 'heart and soul of America is found here in [insert upper-Midwest city]' helped fuel that.

[Also, fair fucking play to Ron Artest. Reminds me of Eric Cantona at Crystal Palace. You sit in the stands close to the players and abuse someone twice your size and ten times as fit? Fuck. You. The look of surprise before the pasty-faced white bloke got punched in the face should be pasted around America.]
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 2:29 am | #

jeebs,

that's what so frustrated me about this election (well, that and the fact that Bush is a complete and total fucktard who couldn't even run an ant farm). No offense intended to people who live in rural communities, but come on! You think the terrorists think they can make their point more effectively by hitting a grain silo? I don't think so!

I was out earlier with some friends and we were discussing whether or not two of us were going to run the 2005 NYC Marathon. "Assuming we haven't been nuked by then," I said half-jokingly. Everyone else laughed and shrugged.

That's how we deal with it here.
watertiger | 11.20.04 - 2:33 am | #

Nevermind the alcohol testing (positive)

I'm sure this belongs on the porno thread too. Oh well! (from Writer's Almanac- Garrison Keillor)

Poem: "Forty-Five," by Hayden Carruth, from Scrambled Eggs and Whiskey © Copper Canyon Press. Reprinted with permission.

Forty-Five

When I was forty-five I lay for hours
beside a pool, the green hazy
springtime water, and watched
the salamanders coupling, how they drifted lazily,
their little hands floating before them,
aimlessly in and out of the shadows, fifteen
or twenty of them, and suddenly two
would dart together and clasp
one another belly to belly
the way we do, tender and vigorous, and then
would let go and drift away
at peace, lazily,
in the green pool that was their world
and for a while was mine.
cgreen | 11.20.04 - 2:33 am | #

And now these fuckwits who think slapping a goddamned "support the troop" magnet on their hulking SUVs somehow makes them more patriotic than me tell me I'M to blame? FUCK YOU.

Yeah, that's it. I swear, maybe I'm stupid, but maybe it hadn't hit me like that until after the election and all the "values" shit came out... I've been full of rage and trying to put my finger on why. I think you nailed it, and on top of that the insult of the media bobbleheads wisely nodding along to this new wisdom.

The message is FUCK YOU NEW YORK AND LIKE IT.

It's as blunt as that.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:34 am | #

re the nyc/911 piece, did you guys notice J Stewart a week or so ago, twice, tried the same bit on a similiar tack.

We've all seen Stewart's opening piece on the first Daily Show after 9/11, yes? Okay. He takes this personally.

And I honestly think that this holier-than-thou attitude from some (not all) Republicans has put some fury into Stewart and the rest of the team this past week. There's a real sense of how fucking dare you? about pieces like that one with (was it Corddry?) about red-staters being 'insulated' and thus better able to judge who can deal with terrorism. Very very Swiftian.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 2:34 am | #

Wine, reefer, who cares?

The Lord God Jehooovah, that's who! The Bible's all about wine...on damn near every page, someone's drunk as a Welshman. Jesus himself won't settle for drinking water. Your man does take a very dim view of water-bibbin', begob. No sooner sees a drop of it than he turns it to wine and laps it up like a hound.
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:35 am | #

saw the following home made sign (laser printed on a 8x11 sheet of typing paper) in the rear window of a truck a few days ago:

"Christians recruit. Muslims decapitate."

Even for here in tejas, that was a new low.
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 2:35 am | #

On the job drug use is very common. Many employers look the other way because they are 'good workers.'
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:28 am | #

True. Been there. When I was flipping burgers, sure. When I was driving a bulldozer, no. And, of course, many employers look the other way when Jim at the office has a five-martini lunch because he's "stressed" or that Bob the bulldozer mechanic is sneaking Budweisers to the site because "he's a good guy". Hell, sometime they split a few cold ones or put a little something in their coffees.

You honestly don't think irresponsible dingbats will cease to be irresponsible dingbats without pot?
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:36 am | #

(was it Corddry?)

It was Colbert. And I stood up and cheered.
watertiger | 11.20.04 - 2:36 am | #

How does a drug test prove that someone's stoned on the job? What if someone only smokes on Saturday night?
It doesn't, but if i'm an employer who has a problem with on the job drug use, threatening a random drug test may control the problem.
Anonymous | 11.20.04 - 2:37 am | #

Well, I'm off to bed.

Live high or die, friends!
Philalethes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:38 am | #

on damn near every page, someone's drunk as a Welshman.

But the main question lad, the main question!

Is he Scottish? That is, does he have whisky on his breath when he's trying to weasel out of a check?
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:39 am | #

Bush
"who couldn't even run an ant farm"
oh thank you watertiger. thank you.
I laugh so seldom any more.
cgreen | 11.20.04 - 2:40 am | #

It doesn't, but if i'm an employer who has a problem with on the job drug use, threatening a random drug test may control the problem.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:37 am | #

Well, why doesn't he just fire the offenders? Bossman can get in a shitload of trouble if drug use is taking place at his business, with or without his knowledge. It's well within his right to fire anyone who fires up while on the job, good employee or not.

And, for the record, what's an employer to do about a problem concerning on-the-job alcohol use? Not neccessarily illegal, but definately just as bad, if not worse, for the work environment than your drunk.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:41 am | #

Backslider: How about Feel Like I'm Fixin' To Die Rag with minor lyric updates to adjust to the new geographics?

And if you figure them out, could ya send them to me? I've been trying to figure out a good transformation for a couple weeks now.
SJohn | 11.20.04 - 2:42 am | #

On the job drug use is very common. Many employers look the other way because they are 'good workers.'
Anonymous

Um, maybe if these drugs are caffeine or possibly nicotine. Or the occasional packet of TheraFlu.

Unless, of course, you're Rush Limbaugh...Then the rules don't apply...
Stinky | 11.20.04 - 2:43 am | #

There is a banner at MTV's site that says:

What if you were babysitting your niece.

And you got high.

So you didn't notice what she poured in her play teacup.

(cue to picture of a bottle of bleach and a pink teacup with a pot leaf on it)

Weed can make you do stupid things like that.

Well, it never happened to me, but one time I accidentally gave Mr Hart some rat poison instead of Skinny and Sweet! Then we stole the wrong body! Oops!
Violet Newstead | 11.20.04 - 2:43 am | #

God, I'm a doctor (well, PhD) with three great kids, a happy marriage, very stable job, and whose only real weakness is blogs...

... man, this troll has really reminded me it's often kinda fun to get stoned. Oh well.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:44 am | #

I think you nailed it, and on top of that the insult of the media bobbleheads wisely nodding along to this new wisdom.

You're hardly dumb, Thersites.

And what's even more ironic is that so many of those bobbleheads are located right here in the Big Bad Apple. Um, hello? Are you all encased in lead in the event of a nuclear attack? You have a special supply of potassium iodide? You have a direct line to God who's gonna let you know if a biological or chemical attack is imminent (oh, hold up. That's Bush. Right.)
watertiger | 11.20.04 - 2:44 am | #

That brawl in the palace is scary. THIS IS BUSH, THIS IS WHAT BUSH HAS WROUGHT. EVERYDAY, AILES AND FOX, LIMBAUGH, COULTER, SAVAGE GOADING US INTO NATIONAL SUICIDE.
Anonymous | 11.20.04 - 2:45 am | #

"Man! Have they put Joni Mitchell on a stamp yet?"
jeebs

LOL! No wonder you fell in love. Seriously, you are one lucky guy.

I see SGT "Anonymous" Stedenko hasn't turned into a lizard yet.
-
Fielding Mellish | 11.20.04 - 2:46 am | #

cgreen,

and thus, my night is complete. T'is my pleasure.
watertiger | 11.20.04 - 2:47 am | #

That brawl in the palace is scary. THIS IS BUSH, THIS IS WHAT BUSH HAS WROUGHT. EVERYDAY, AILES AND FOX, LIMBAUGH, COULTER, SAVAGE GOADING US INTO NATIONAL SUICIDE.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:45 am | #

No, we're talking about the legalization question. Pay attention. And settle down.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:48 am | #

You all are dumb; if its really the end of the world, why are you in chat rooms?
Don't blame me I voted for Nad | 11.20.04 - 2:49 am | #

Violet Newstead,
And what if, when you came home, the hippie babysitter said she'd cook you a turkey but you didn't have a turkey and she was tripping and OH MY GOD WHERE'S THE BABY!!!

Sheesh...dipsticks occur naturally. Stupidity's the building block of the universe, not hydrogen. Idiots that aren't stoned aren't any less idiots that are.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:51 am | #

some days back, p asked for books.

i gave up a few that i was reading at the time.

a few days ago, i stumbled onto this one...

GUERNICA: THE BIOGRAPHY OF A TWENTIETH-CENTURY ICON.

it is a great read. also, a fab dust cover.

put it in your library even if you don't read it. but read it.

oh, and concering drugs in the workplace. i own a workplace. and i have resisted requiring peeing in a bottle. but recently, two incidents of blatant worker comp fraud, involving "drugged" individuals, has changed my pov.

peeing in the bottle will now become de rigeur at my atelier. and will become a condition of employment. as will complete background checks.

and soon to come, cameras filming all aspects of the day.

and why? you have no idea what worker's comp fraud can cost. i do.

and defending yourself from fraud is very tough, very expensive.

and by the way, the fraudsters are organized. it is organized crime. physicians are involved. sometimes insurance personnel are involved.

this level of fraud raises the costs of doing business in amerika. it makes it easier for the chicom slavelabor to undercut our efforts.

by the way, when it comes to drugs, my encounters have always been with repfascists doing the drugs that they imprison non-whites and poor for doing.

columbus, ohio, was my reference point. while the black and the impoverished were being jailed, the sons and daughters of the white, christian, jewish establishment were protected.

some of these that were protected even professed to being "liberal". but not so "liberal' that they defended the black and the impoverished for being punished for the crimes[sic] for which the white rich were exonerated.

my favorite bunko artists were the white, politically connected attorneys who snorted snow and inhaled weed on a daily basis, and yet were quite comfortable with the poor blacks being busted and then convicted...sentenced to do hard time.

you want some names? i might just give up some names of white establishment republican attorneys who do drugs, have done drugs, and keep silent when the unterklasse are rousted and incarcerated.

but i don't think i have to be specific. look at republican stalwarts in ohio. i can assure you, for most of them, a drug test would reveal their walking on the wild side.

and i bet that this would hold true for states beyond ohio.

let's find a way to go after them. kick out the jams.
albertchampion | 11.20.04 - 2:53 am | #

What if you were babysitting your niece.

And you got high.

So you didn't notice what she poured in her play teacup.

(cue to picture of a bottle of bleach and a pink teacup with a pot leaf on it)

Weed can make you do stupid things like that.

Hmmm...I think I'll go put some nice warm milk in one of my pink pot leaf tea cups...Where's my milk again? Oh, it's under the sink in that white jug...

Nite all!
Stinky | 11.20.04 - 2:53 am | #

in the sole interest of splitting hairs, and as someone who is a red state native and current resident, but who also lived in NYC for 10 years, I think NYC is a target, perhaps the main target, for the knuckledraggers because it typifies the liberalism they despise and are threatened by. However, take it from me, they also spread the hate around --as easily as W talks about "spreadin freedom" - they hate all queers, be they home grown or from NYC, they hate all liberal icons, be it Austin or NYC, etc, etc.

They especially hate non-conformity of any size, denomination, stripe, etc.

Again, just splitting hairs, not at all arguing about NYC's earned rage.

on an ironic tangent, when I lived in NYC, people who were supposedly intelligent and open minded often dismissed me when they found out I was from Texas. Back home, people often dismiss me when they find out I lived in NYC.
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 2:53 am | #

THE BROTHERS ARE GOING TO RIOT IN THE STREETS, THE MURDER RATE IS GOING TO SKY-ROCKET. KENT STATE WILL LOOK LIKE SUNDAY SCHOOL. WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR BUSH TO REALIZE HE HAS RIPPED OUR COUNTRY APART.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:49 am | #

CATS AND DOGS LIVING TOGETHER! MASS STREAKING! WAILING CHILDREN! CAMELS IN THE POLICE FORCE!

You all are dumb; if its really the end of the world, why are you in chat rooms?
Don't blame me I voted for Nad | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:49 am | #

Got nothin' better to do and can't sleep. What's your excuse?
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:54 am | #

[Also, fair fucking play to Ron Artest. Reminds me of Eric Cantona at Crystal Palace. You sit in the stands close to the players and abuse someone twice your size and ten times as fit? Fuck. You. The look of surprise before the pasty-faced white bloke got punched in the face should be pasted around America.]
pseudonymous in nc
-------------------------
The only problem I see with that is that the pasty faced dude did nothing wrong except cheer. He didn't throw the cup that hit Artest and re-ignited everything. You can see he had a big ass beer in his left hand. I suppose it's possible that he threw the beer in his right hand, but he doesn't look like the two-fister type of guy. ESPN, in the halftime show of the next game, even pointed out that Artest jumped the wrong guy. (They seem to have stopped making that point in the umpteen replays that I've seen since).

Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
Dick Woodcock | 11.20.04 - 2:54 am | #

The dingo ate my baby.
Violet Newstead | 11.20.04 - 2:55 am | #

LOL! No wonder you fell in love. Seriously, you are one lucky guy.

girl, actually...hell, middle-aged woman, actually

but yes, I am lucky. She's my sunshine.
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 2:57 am | #

Nobody has ever died of an overdose of cannabis. Whatever else you might want to say about it, it's pretty damned safe.
bad Jim

...and I HAVE TRIED...or at least tried to find my limit. I think falling face first into a book of large color plates of William Blake renderings (and falling INTO the book, among the color and brushstrokes, actually into the art, not fainting and falling) and mistaking midnight for sunny noon for about 15 seconds was the most extreme symptom of Massive dosing of THC, and that was Honey oil direct from the hash press...besides the Temple Ball, the single heaviest load/ trip ever. After that, it is all tea.

And why in the hell would a group of fairly like-minded interested parties argue a non-point with someone who has never been high?

People without names are on thin ice, blathering their opinions which are at best uninformed. And Hangovers don't show on any test but a hydration monitor...

Amazing how we roast kids and people in church in the name of freedom while tolerating , indeed Championing the erosion of our most basic liberties ( you can tell , Bush and his Swine-troops talk shit about the ACLU all the time , what they miss is that the ACLU exists to preserve the Constitution against tyrannical , theocratic fascists)

Anon should maybe have a look at some of the Reasons (dirty word around Neo-dolts) for the initial banning of Cannabis. Hey, know what that constitution was written on? Know what ship ropes were made from? Know what the government paid Farmers to grow for the war effort in the 40’s? Know what George Washington used to ease the pain in his terrible teeth? (Acres of it bubba, acres...primo Caribbean Chronic and the Founding Fathers) Do you know anything about your own history? No, just how to walk around throwing elbows with 1/3 of the facts, and a whole pile of dung in miniature Trebuchet.
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:58 am | #

A.s.H.,
I took a similar trip past the Great Green Frontier once. It wasn't pleasent, really, and I rarely get too stoned to function. Tune in and turn on, sure, but never where I can't talk. It was also an ungodly amount of THC.

Beats the hell out of the blackouts too much liquor will give me, though. At least I can remember everything.
Backslider | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:04 am | #

The only problem I see with that is that the pasty faced dude did nothing wrong except cheer.

Actually, I was thinking of the other pasty-faced bloke in the Tigers cap and the Pistons jersey...

I remember the Cantona karate-kick moment (ten years ago now) and it's ironic that it took a 'fan' abusing a white Frenchman, and that white Frenchman hitting back, to start a debate that really did eliminate some of the most disgusting racism from the terraces.

Anyway... I'm now wishing I had a good connection for weed. Or, proving my foreign-ness, for hash. Nostalgia time.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 3:04 am | #

Anon should maybe have a look at some of the Reasons (dirty word around Neo-dolts) for the initial banning of Cannabis

Sadie Plant's 'Writing on Drugs' is a great read on this subject. Look at the banning of a drug in America, and find a racist backstory. Those damn negroes. As the Harper's reviewer wrote,

it is difficult to imagine an American writing either of the two books--both by English writers--under consideration here, each suffused with a tacit advocacy of recreational or experimental drug use.

Though Bill Hicks did his best to plough that furrow.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 3:11 am | #

it's been said before, but damn I wish we still had bill hicks to help us out.

and so, with visions of bill dancing in my head, I'm off to bed.

live high or die
mandate, my ass
jeebs | 11.20.04 - 3:21 am | #

In case anybody missed it, Santorum got google bombed by Dan Savage. Just google "santorum" and see what's at the top.
Herbal Essence | 11.20.04 - 3:21 am | #

Backslider : Mine was actualy pleasant in the extreme , but that it could have been way NOT...I have been really lucky in my young terminal years Just Missing that bad trip line , the worst being an odd respiratory hallucination/ effect from some odd Yellow Mics, but that was long ago .

since then , I do tiny blasts in a stem a friend made me on a lathe; I do a lot of tiny blasts , but I can hardly blow a whole stick anymore . That WAVE makes my nerves a bit freaky for half an hour or so ....I guess I just need the volume down a notch in my late 30's ..

I have never felt so poisoned as from Alcohol. Just overdoing Rum and Coke or a whole schwack of beer on the wrong tummy content ( remember , that's canuk beer) and I have pleaded to be euthanised while clutching toward the bowl...and then a corpse the next day...

Ain't never had no green do THAT to me ...

I just find that a measured sampling of the natural world is inherently pleasurable , be it the sensations in our nerves ( god given ) or the flowers and scents that spring from the earth ( also God given , in case anyone thinks Cannibis is wrought on us by Satan ) and that the responsible use of all our senses, sexual ,euphoric, visual, offers one a well rounded and rich life .

And so far as drugs go , anything from the test tube is for the birds, but I would neither prevent anyone from exploring thier consciousness any more than I would drug someone without their knowledge. The war on drugs is the infliction of pseudo-morality by a tiny minority of those whose own intellect is limited by fear of free thought .

Burroughs was pretty smart for an old junkie
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:22 am | #

I'd probably smoke a little pot every now and then if it was legal.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:23 am | #

When I was a student in Berkeley, call it 1970, my sister made a big plateful of cookies laced with homegrown weed. She, her husband and I crashed after one or two apiece.

Their small white dog ate the rest.

She mostly slept for the next three days, but she lived to seventeen, which is pretty good even for a small bright dog.
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 3:23 am | #

when I lived in NYC, people who were supposedly intelligent and open minded often dismissed me when they found out I was from Texas

I don't doubt it. Sorry, for what it's worth, because I surely would have done it to you, had we met.

9/11 should have made us better than All That. It didn't.

We should have learned that our true enemies were hatred and fear.

We didn't.
Thersites | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:25 am | #

bad Jim,

My Great Dane drank a beer that she knocked off of the bar and slept the rest of the night about 3 inches from the stain in the carpet...

Steve

Steve in CO | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:27 am | #

I'll highly recommend The Botany of Desire: A Plant's-Eye View of the World
by Michael Pollan, a book about apples, tulips, marijuana and potatoes.

It doesn't really look at people from the point of view of plants. Damned tasty tome, though. Makes me want to go back to Amsterdam.
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 3:31 am | #

oh, and as for the " might get something they can't handle " nonsense , ALL of the late 30's smokers I know get their marajuana from close friends who make only gas-money profit and for whom the actual field crop is never more than 2- 3 people distant , and in most cases grown by someone close in a non profit crop sharing arrangement . Anyone who goes to a street dealer is dabbling or misguided ( or has burned a friend in the past and gotten cut off). I haven't even heard of someone leaning into the window of a strangers car or whispering in an alley for about 20 years.

Pot is probably the nicest substance I allow in my life , and has never brought me any sort of pain in my entire use-history. Cept for the time in the Poconos when that patrol car came out of NOwhere and we were forced to stop twisting and answer a polit question or two ...Where do those Troopers come from so Quiet ?
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:33 am | #

Herbal Essence, you really shouldn't mention a googlebomb without giving the obligatory link.

Santorum
pixie | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:33 am | #

when I lived in NYC, people who were supposedly intelligent and open minded often dismissed me when they found out I was from Texas

Being from Utah, I've had the same experience, but I didn't let it bother me.

How could I blame them? I came from a state where harsher incest laws were killed in the legislature because they were seen as being "harmful to families."

If you live in a place where the majority of people are idiotic enough to buy into that kind of crap, then you should try to understand why the rest of the world might think you're an idiot too.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:37 am | #

Picked up this thread late, but I have a burning question:

Anyone got a recipe for honeysliders, and is making them worth it?

Just wondering.
grr | 11.20.04 - 3:38 am | #

Philalethes and Thersites,

Which absurd British fop author was it tried to show solidarity with the workers by purposefully ruining his teeth...Christopher Isherwood, maybe?

It was indeed Isherwood, in his Berlin days. He would eat poor folks' food like lung soup, IIRC, and then indulge in a bag of caramels to ruin his teeth.
Wile E. Odysseus | 11.20.04 - 3:39 am | #

My point was that pot doesn't kill. But I'll mention that more recently I gave a visiting dog, a good friend of mine, a tiny bud. She's a very bright, calm, friendly, but hungry animal, and she ate it. Slept until noon, which was not at all usual for her.

It was with difficulty that I kept well-meaning others from taking her to the vet.

She visited many weeks later, and, since she seemed to want to try it again, I gave her a little more. Dried green leaf. Tasty? No. She took it. She seemed not to have minded it that much.

That was some time ago, though. I guess she's not hooked on it as much as she is about chasing a laser pointer around the yard.
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 3:41 am | #

I do , but I am sure it is a no no to Advise you Xborder and in Dear Atrios living room and all ...and Ashcroft aint gone yet...I know it is a no no to offer advice that might facilitate a sub-legal act ( any lawyers in here ? I remember a pamphlet on growning and cooking is Illegal here , and almost Nothing green is seriously illegal here anymore )

Shoot me an email and I Won't tell you anything questionable . I think b-slider can tell you the same things...
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:42 am | #

Oh, and Pharmako/Poeia by Dale Pendell, obviously. Just because of its devotion to the power of stuff that fucking grows naturally.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 3:43 am | #

Why is my local radio ABC affiliate constantly covering the Chile anti-Bush demonstrations? I find it very strange, when they certainly didn't cover the overwhelming demonstrations against the war. Nor did they cover the massive demonstrations in New York during the Republican convention. Is is a slow news day?
Is is safe to show dissent when it isn't here?
I find it very, very disorienting.
stinky feet | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:09 am | #

Because it's 2:09 late at night when most aren't listening. They don't air anything anti-chimpy during prime-time. They've been doing that for years for Bush.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 3:44 am | #

Hey, as long as we're discussing drug testing and politics, how about mandatory drug testing of all members of Congress, and then they can throw it over to the White House ? Not that I have a problem with any of them using, but it would be nice to look at the hypocrisy when they start refusing.
dumass librual | 11.20.04 - 3:46 am | #

Vote Democrat,

Keep the Gubmint outta yer pants.
taint | 11.20.04 - 3:47 am | #

I know. I've worked every shift, day and night and have been an avid AM radio listener since before 2000 although I never listen to wing nut radio since the election. ABC top of the hour news never aired anything anti-chimpy during the day when there were more listerners. Late at night when most weren't listening, occasionally, they would air truthful anti-chimpy content.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 3:48 am | #

how about mandatory drug testing of all members of Congress

Nah. No point. Power is their drug, and you can't test for that from a sample bottle or a hair.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 3:51 am | #

CNN International showed an ITN piece (British news, the main rival to the BBC) about the Hardee's monster thickburger: all 1400cals, 107g of fat. Now that's a fucking drug problem.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 3:52 am | #

Pot is psychologically addictive. The addiction is facilitated by watching others give signals that this lifestyle is ok. Some may signal that you can do it all the time, some may signal you can do it at work. That's also how people become alcoholics. So you are all well balanced individuals and can integrate these drugs in your life without loss? What about unbalanced lives? It was asserted earlier that a bum is a bum whether they smoke pot or not. The real question is, do these drugs drive a bad life further into the cellar. The other pressing question is....what the hell is the matter with you that you can't be happy without these drugs.
Anonymous | 11.20.04 - 3:55 am | #

He didn't like my old Art Bell parody site. He pissed me off so much that I kept it up for 2 years after I lost interest in it.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:56 am | #

Pot is psychologically addictive.

What isn't?
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:57 am | #

hey friends , want to help me get into a heap of trouble with the feds ?

My new mission ( and I will return to this subject in future threads) is to unmask and make public the names and faces of Nuclear Research Scientists who provide the military with what they need to make new Nukes. Rumsfeld can't grow the things himself , and the scientists that do labor in anonymous safety . Were they to be revealed and brought into the harsh light of public scutiny ,they might easier be forced to answer some hard moral questions.

Make it impossible for them to toil without responsibility , and hinder their ability to further these crimes against humanity and all of nature .

I am thinking of starting with high profile University Labs and Work groups . A few letters etc.

Any of you fine Enlightened Citizens of Reason know of Acedemic Insitutes with especially secretive research depts.?

Help me get my first indictable offense before I turn 40 ...I am sure it is a no no somewhere .
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:58 am | #

The addiction is facilitated by watching others give signals that this lifestyle is ok. Some may signal that you can do it all the time, some may signal you can do it at work.

I haven't smoked it in years, but I work with a bunch of people who do. One is a chemist, another a geologist, two more are engineers, and another manages projects that costs hundreds of millions of dollars. I think their lifestyles are OK.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 4:02 am | #

Anon, you're obviously young and inexperienced. Try living life awhile before you start condemning others for what they smoke.
patriotboy | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 4:05 am | #

Anon: Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up until you know what you are talking about and until your line of questioning adds to the conversation .
I am perfectly happy without grass, perfectly happy with it . What other people do is None of My BIzZneSS , or yours...minding your own life and doing it well is a cornerstone of the US constitution , and an irresponsible a-hole is one whether he gets drunk and mows down kids or smokes too much Rock and shoots a store owner or lets his pit-bull eat a neighbor...

you have no point and the ones you make are wrong and born of ignorance .

Piss off . There , now I'm done with this lint
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 4:05 am | #

pixie -

Thanks for the tip, I should've figured that one out on my own. Doh! Googlebombing virgin here.

One more time for the Santorum link
Herbal Essence | 11.20.04 - 4:12 am | #

"I haven't abandoned you. Don't worry; if there's anything there, we'll find it."

As Baby Jesus floated above the town, looking down kindly.

What, are you kidding? It is a LAYDOWN, and the appeasement is not particularly a precedent in the last twenty-five years.

'Don't worry about it, we'll take care of it' HAS NEVER worked in a democracy, and it FOR SURE don't work during a coup.

--
Paul | 11.20.04 - 4:17 am | #

lifestyle ...wow ....

I'm sorry folks , and I don't mean to be intolerant and snippy , and I shouldn't tell anyone to shut up , that was out of line . Anon, say whatever you like anytime, and welcome to this blog . You should try coming up with a screen name and enquiring of people of greater experience about the facts of things you have obviously only a facile understanding of .That is why we treat you like a foolish child , it is your manner and vapid certainty. Words like 'lifestyle',in your context, has the same effect as having a stranger put their finger in your navel . It is presumptuous and rude.

The Catholic Priest down the road from my place eats organic Hash muffins and prays alone in the woods. He has spoken out about sex-abuse in the church and writes beautifully about human rights and caring for neighbors. He Works at homeless shelters and advises people in bad circumstances , and he is one of the most honorable men I know . He pays for the prescription drugs for about a dozen chronic care patients in the neighborhood . He and I have a smoke now and again and he makes fun of my aethiesm and tells me " Go with God , no offense" ...

Tell me , what is his Lifestyle ?

Be careful how much you think you know about people . You will always be wrong .

Peace all
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 4:18 am | #

Incognito -- do you listen to Art Bell?

That guy's an asshole. Threatened to sue me once. Tried to get one of his vendors to sue me another time. Got me kicked off an ISP. Lied about me on usenet. Ranted about me on his show.
patriotboy

Yeah, I love Art Bell. He's been very supportive of gay rights saying he sees no problem with gay marriage and "that he's come around." I started listening to him when I started working nights back in 97. I know something happened with his son and a gay man who had HIV who is in prison now for molesting him. I never knew what all that was about. Would you tell me if you know?
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 4:32 am | #

The troll is here for our amusement.

what ... is the matter with you that you can't be happy without

I don't see how I can be happy without enchiladas. Fajitas are fine, but I like the sauce and the form factor.

I don't see how I can be happy without lasagna, the cheese on top, the cheese in the middle, and yet more cheese.

I certainly couldn't be happy without pizza. I was happy before I encountered sushi and tapas, but I'd rather not countenance the absence of either. Mmm, anchovy on roquefort.

Presumably I could be happy with nothing, but since I'm human, I've got wider opportunities than that!
bad Jim | 11.20.04 - 4:36 am | #

I can take the unvarnished truth, if you're still there patriotboy.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 4:36 am | #

By the way, I don't at all love Art Bell because he's supportive of gay rights or at least doesn't see how it affects him. The man has a brillant interviewing style and has the most amazingly interesting guests.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 4:43 am | #

Something about that entire situation on air was odd to me. I went through all that but didn't know what the fuck was going on.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 4:50 am | #

"Pot is psychologically addictive."

"I've heard people say that, but I've been smoking it for 75 years, and I ain't got addicted yet!"

.
Louis Armstrong | 11.20.04 - 4:57 am | #

"I'm sorry folks , and I don't mean to be intolerant and snippy , and I shouldn't tell anyone to shut up , that was out of line . Anon, say whatever you like anytime, and welcome to this blog . You should try coming up with a screen name and enquiring of people of greater experience about the facts of things you have obviously only a facile understanding of ."

- A.s.H.

Before you apologize to him too much, consider this - he had to intentionally circumvent the little anti-"Anonymous" script for Haloscan that Atrios has now implemented. Maybe you were right the first time.
Paddy O'Toole | 11.20.04 - 5:04 am | #

By the way, there's never been one documented case of a gay man giving AIDS to an underage teenager or boy but many hetero men giving that to underage teenage women and girls in this country and/or impregnating them.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 5:20 am | #

what the hell is the matter with you that you can't be happy without these drugs.

How about this deal, troll? You either shut the fuck up about people smoking pot, or they:

a. stop smoking pot,
b. get much less chilled out,
c. head over to your place and give you a pasting that most Indiana Pacers can only dream about handing out.

Really, there's plenty the matter with you that can probably be addressed, at least in part, by a heroic dose of psyllocibin mushrooms.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 5:32 am | #

Well, now. I'm very late coming here. Legalize marijuana? Why not? If tobacco and alcohol are legal, why not pot? What does smoking weed do that's more harmful than alcohol or the crap that's in tobacco? As for leading to crime and further drug use, I agree with Robin Williams.
For all its sensory enhancement, "it does not make you empowered."

I'm a white male from Idaho who voted Republican November 2nd, BTW. Does that make me automatically evil?
Special Ed | 11.20.04 - 5:34 am | #

Jeez, it sounds like in my previous posts I'm advocating gay men with AIDS having sex with underage boys compared to straight men with AIDS having sex with underage girls.

When you're gay, it's always an impossible situation everywhere you turn because that's the way it is.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 5:41 am | #

And, of course, with the most "liberal of hetero minds here", they never ask questions to elaborate and educate them better. You think you already know already. Bigotry. No different than Paul this evening saying I prefer Nordic "boys." Homophobic bigotry. I never said anything like anything he said. See, you think you know. I will defend what I wrote against anyone I have ever written. Hetero Arab men publicly behead homo Arab men, and they beat their bovine women and make them cover themselves in heavy burkes to hide the fact they're always pregnant which means "in all their purist monotheistic modesty", THEY DID THE DIRTY DEED.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 6:04 am | #

Has anybody seen this CNN Presents feature on evangelical christians? It's on right now ... and it's bizarre.
Demogenes Aristophanes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:30 am | #

I think I'm going to have to start going to Vietnamese blogs. This night shift shit is harshing my comments buzz.
Demogenes Aristophanes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:34 am | #

theodoric:
Thanks for the link to the Brick Bible...funny and informative!!!

Do fundies have an interlocking plastic toy that they can use?
sean | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:35 am | #

Has anybody seen this CNN Presents feature on evangelical christians? It's on right now ... and it's bizarre.
Demogenes Aristophanes

What about the "evangelical" muslims? You know, they believe the same but condensed version of it?
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 6:35 am | #

What, I'm crazy now because I say muslims believe in the end-times, too?
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 6:41 am | #

we've come dangerously close to a place where simple logic is increasingly seen as a totally illegitimate mode of political speech.

BINGO!

As a form of silent protest I am thinking about immolating select local freepers (best the super fat ones for a lingering grease fire) while they shop at WalMart...charcoal starter in a SuperSoaker...then screaming, "Look, that sinner displeases the Lord!!!"
mr. sticky | 11.20.04 - 6:46 am | #

"I'm a white male from Idaho who voted Republican November 2nd, BTW. Does that make me automatically evil?"

Yeah, pretty much.
Mike | 11.20.04 - 6:47 am | #

I feel anger because it shouldn't have come to this and I can't do a damn thing about anything.

Alas America.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 6:50 am | #

They killed my country.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 7:04 am | #

I knew it was coming. I've been screaming and crying for the last hour.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 7:12 am | #

~ahem~ sceaming = sobbing
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 7:14 am | #

Incog -

I just laugh at the rampant ignorance of those people. I was watching Hardball last night- when Matthews had some idiot on projecting the far-right Catholic view on family values.

I told my wife - 'gee and they wonder why people are leaving the church in record numbers'.

One of his primary thoughts was the 'men do the work, women stay home to raise the children' meme. I then said to my wife, 'yeah in our case, we'd both been dead by now if we followed that example'.

Yer letting them get to you man. Stop allowing the ignorance to creep into your soul. It's your choice, you know.

And I know you understand that premise.
Barndog | 11.20.04 - 7:20 am | #

Maybe my crying jag isn't over but right now I still feel anger for those who voted for Bush. It feels even worse than before toward them. I'm angry because of their stupidity for putting us through this for so long only to steal the election again. Goddamn, you'd think the stupid things are from a country blowing others to bits would at least try to understand what's going on.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 7:25 am | #

To the stump-stupid anonymous idiot:
cannabis has no addicitve properties in pure form. What IS addictive are the residue from the chemical fertilizers used to propogate it in rapid fashion, in order to maximize profit margins.

The old Corporate American way - maximum profit for minimum effort and who cares about the side effects, right?

You are a truly stupid individual.
Barndog | 11.20.04 - 7:27 am | #

Rise above it, Bro. The only one who can bring you down - is you. Let them be ignorant on their own time... as it is, you are letting them feed their ignorance off your anger.

And that ain't right.
Barndog | 11.20.04 - 7:31 am | #

Yer letting them get to you man. Stop allowing the ignorance to creep into your soul. It's your choice, you know.

Thanks. I'm just trying to descibe how I feel right now about it all. I'm fine. Thanks.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 7:32 am | #

And that ain't right.
Barndog

How do you feel about it? I know you will just suck it up and not say anything. Well, you should let some of it out here. But you want because of your training. That's cool. I'm fine with it. I have started crying since 5:30 CST and I will cry about it all as long as I want. The greatest "MAN"
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 7:40 am | #

I wanted to writed that the greatest man I ever knew was my dad and he sometimes cried.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 7:41 am | #

I only use human fertilizer when growing weed. After spending a couple of years in SE Asia, I saw how the rice farmers used it for thousands of years, with no ill effects.

I don't tell anyone, but I love it when my buddies exclaim "Man, this is good shit".
coitus bush | 11.20.04 - 7:47 am | #

This means war:

WASHINGTON, Saturday, Nov. 20 - House and Senate negotiators have tucked a potentially far-reaching anti-abortion provision into a $388 billion must-pass spending bill, complicating plans for Congress to wrap up its business and adjourn for the year.
pie | 11.20.04 - 7:51 am | #

Yeah, that's right. Dad cried when his father died. I cry when my country and all its ideals died.
Incognito | 11.20.04 - 7:52 am | #

Monica,

You're probably long-since sound asleep, but if money's no object, go to Hermes. They make leather goods that can be used forever and passed down to your great-grandkids. They started out as saddle-makers. And, they're French, so buying from them pisses off the wingnuts.
Hecate | 11.20.04 - 7:53 am | #

Ok, remember how some were saying Pelosi should bring a up or down vote on a constitutional amendment to ban abortion to force the issue for repubs who want to exploit the issue, but dont really want to vote on it? This is why it should be done:

"From NYT:

Negotiators Add Abortion Clause to Spending Bill

House and Senate negotiators have tucked a potentially far-reaching anti-abortion provision into a $388 billion must-pass spending bill, complicating plans for Congress to wrap up its business and adjourn for the year."
Live Free or Die | 11.20.04 - 7:55 am | #

Pie,

You know what the solution is. They want to use abortion, but never deliver. All this says is that doctors who dont want to perform abortions dont have to. Dont think for a second that this does not have to do with '06. Dems should attach a constitutional amendment to ban all abortions, then we will see how far the bill will get. Dont let the repubs get away with that.
Live Free or Die | 11.20.04 - 7:58 am | #

WE could learn from the Chileans...

SANTIAGO, Chile - More than 25,000 protesters marched through downtown Santiago on Friday, demonstrating against an economic summit of Pacific Rim leaders, the attendance of President Bush (news - web sites) and the U.S.-led war in Iraq (news - web sites). Protests elsewhere turned violent and dozens were arrested.
coitus bush | 11.20.04 - 8:05 am | #

It's all a matter of how one wishes to address it.

I'm fighting in different ways. If you want to cry, fine. Bitch? Fine.

Already worked through mine, thank you very much. Rather than allowing it to comsume all of my being, I've processed it and decided to go forward.

I'm moving forward, myself. Theres work to do. This isn't the only forum I happen to participate in. I learned a long time ago, how to utilize my ADHD as a strength, not a weakness.

So, if you want to choose to believe that I'm Mr 'Usual Big Man' sucking it up, go right the fuck ahead. I was only offering some assistance.

I see how that turned out.

Oh, and I still cry every Oct 22nd on my Son's birthday. He happened to die at 2 from a rare cancer in 1987. Christmas too - since he died 4 days before it that year.

So, I guess your logic on being the 'emotional rock' is shot then isn't it?

Until you've walked in my shoes, don't try to tell me how my life has been. You have no clue, Brother.
Barndog | 11.20.04 - 8:07 am | #

Sorry, LFOD, I don't trust the outcome of such a proposal at all. This is too important. I've already gotten an email about it.

Anyway, I'm leaving for the day. I've already printed this article out to show to anyone and everyone I see.

Later.
pie | 11.20.04 - 8:08 am | #

HER IT COMES, feel a draft w enablers?

On Capitol Hill, Military Warns of Being under Strain
By Esther Schrader
The Los Angeles Times

Thursday 18 November 2004

Washington - Continued fighting in Iraq is straining U.S. forces nearly to the breaking point, even as the Pentagon pumps more than $5.8 billion per month into sustaining its forces there, the chiefs of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines told Congress on Wednesday.

In testimony to the House Armed Services Committee, the service chiefs said the military would need considerably more money for Iraq over the next year. The chiefs of the Army and Marines in particular stressed the increasing difficulty of recruiting and retaining soldiers, and then equipping them for combat.
coitus bush | 11.20.04 - 8:15 am | #

I broke my ankle running away from the second plane. Then was told to return to work while the pile was still burning. Riding the subway the first few months while we were all worried about anthrax was no picnic.

And somehow these motherfuckers are more american than I. My mother's family came here in 1680. I dare anyone to tell me they are more American than I am.
QuiltLady in NY | 11.20.04 - 8:17 am | #

"I'm a white male from Idaho who voted Republican November 2nd, BTW. Does that make me automatically evil?"

Yeah, pretty much.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:47 am | #

That's what I thought. Stupid, too?

I don't feel evil or stupid, but one never knows ...
Special Ed | 11.20.04 - 8:26 am | #

Brian Williams was on Leno last night....some highlites...Leno asked Williams if it was true that Arafat had Aids. Williams showed the red state/ blue state map and said the people in the blue states really don't understand what many military families are going through. And of course, Leno asked Williams if Hilary was going to run in 08.
Anonymous | 11.20.04 - 8:30 am | #

I broke my ankle running away from the second plane

QuiltLady,

I broke my ankle once and it was the worst!! If it ever happens again, I'm just going to shoot myself.
Hecate | 11.20.04 - 8:38 am | #

scary. Not that I expect lofty insights on the Tonight Show, but Williams is the new face of NBC News. was there any discussion of who supports the troops more than Walmart?
dirtgirl | 11.20.04 - 8:39 am | #

Williams showed the red state/ blue state map and said the people in the blue states really don't understand what many military families are going through.

...What a fucking asshole.

http://icasualties.org/oif/US_CITY.aspx

He needs to be called on this.
Falstaff | 11.20.04 - 8:39 am | #

damn it looks like the repugs are ramming thru every bit of faith-based values legislation they can before the inauguration.

everybody is thinking that roe v wade will be invalidated thru the courts. actually, i think the fundies will be more successful thru manuevers like this.

in a way, i almost hope they're successful in restricting abortions. once these friggin yahoos have to start paying child support, i suspect there will be a reconsideration of this issue.
bkny | 11.20.04 - 8:41 am | #

great link, Falstaff.

but it fails to factor in that despite losing fewer troops in sheer numbers, the red staters VALUE their families more. they have ribbons on their cars, too. I'm sure Williams imparted that bit of nuance in his analysis.
dirtgirl | 11.20.04 - 8:45 am | #

bkny -
screw child support, we need to ban divorce! protecting marriages and all...
dirtgirl | 11.20.04 - 8:46 am | #

Practically speaking , the opponents to a reform in Massachussets are not a hundred thousand polticians at the South but a hundred thousand merchants and farmers here, who are more interested in commerce and agriculture than they are humanity, and are not prepared to do justice to the slave and to Mexico, cost what it may. I quarrel not with far off foes,but with those who, near at home, co-operate with, and do the bidding of those far away, and without whom the latter would be harmless. ...

What is the price current of an honest man and patriot today? They hesitate, and they regret, and sometimes they petition; but they do nothing in earnest and with effect. They will wait, well disposed, for others to remedy the evil, that they may no longer have it to regret. At most, they give only a cheap vote, and a feeble countenance and Godspeed, to the right, as it goes by them. There are nine hundred and ninety-nine patrons of virtue to one virtuous man. But it is easier to deal with the real possesor of a thing than with the temporary gaurdian of it.Thoreau

we were talking about pot? and i missed it. pot is good, alcohol bad. never been arrested for smoking pot, but i have been deservedly arrested many times for having a few too many.
this country has some really stupid laws.

the above Thoreau is not in opposition to the kerry post below, which actually gives me some heart. he is, whatever one says of him, a true patriot. this country needs more than a few good men, to stand up and say NO!!!
charley | 11.20.04 - 8:47 am | #

The red state-blue state thing is really starting to bug me. Well, not starting to, it has been since 2000. It's such divisive propoganda, and the perfect kind - it telegencially airbrushes away the bothersome details ... the facts are obscured about voting patterns and how they do not fit neatly into boxes or end abruptly at lines in the sand.

And this Manichean simplification is creeping into other ways we process information. CNN just presented a bit on the flu, with a graphic of a map that showed which states have it, and which don't.

Apparently the flu is a pretty clever little infection in California, but gets all leery and provinicial when it tries to cross the Oregon border.
Demogenes Aristophanes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:50 am | #

Re: the Repugs ramming through their crackpot agenda - faith-based penicillin for all!
Demogenes Aristophanes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:54 am | #

"I dare anyone to tell me they are more American than I am."

Oh, you know it had to be said - -my- mother's family were here, waiting for you when you arrived.

And if you don't think that has been the subject of discussion at various InterTribal meetings..... (What were youse guys thinking????? No passports, no visas, no sponsors and you just let anybody in who lands up on the beach? Jeeze.)
GWPDA | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:03 am | #

bkny

I thought that way too for about five minutes. Problem is, they won't turn it back into a state's rights issue. It will be blanket. In addition, if anti-choice legislation goes through with the wording they want, birth conrol pills, the iud, patch, etc. will all be outlawed since they work after conception. Combine that with lackof access to condoms for young people, and you have a disaster of epic proportions in the making.

I marched against VietNam and for choice back in the sixties. I feel like we have made no progress at all.
QuiltLady in NY | 11.20.04 - 9:03 am | #

30,000 protestors are demonstrating against Bush's presence at a weekend summit in Santiago, Chili. Tear gas and water cannons dispersed the protestors, who initially started out peacefully, but digressed into a rock throwing mele.
They love us!!
Sue | 11.20.04 - 9:05 am | #

Write your senators about the abortion legislation tucked into that budget bill.

DailyKos has a thread on it if you are interested, with links.
blech | 11.20.04 - 9:05 am | #

Demogenes Aristophanes,

You are SO right. How do we get the media to stop using the red & blue? It's so lazy and stupid.
Reg | 11.20.04 - 9:05 am | #

Write your senators about the abortion legislation tucked into that budget bill.

DailyKos has a thread on it if you are interested, with links.
blech | 11.20.04 - 9:05 am | #

Demogenes Aristophanes,

You are SO right. How do we get the media to stop using the red & blue? It's so lazy and stupid.
Reg | 11.20.04 - 9:05 am | #

The protesters carried banners portraying Bush as a vampire, carrion-eating vulture, demon and ghost, as well as exhortating, "Hang on, Falluja!"
Sue | 11.20.04 - 9:07 am | #

GWPDA

Gotme!

But my husband's family was here too. Does that provide any absolution?
QuiltLady in NY | 11.20.04 - 9:09 am | #

"Does that provide any absolution?"

Nah - that's just sleeping with the enemy....

Incidentally, there are two additional horrifying bits to the current attempt to eliminate abortion. Apparently the Senate has abdicated its responsibilities entirely to the House, and has acted on House instructions. And secondly, the bill involved is the Omnibus funding bill; it is the budget for the entire government. Stopping it - which is what has to be done, and which Boxer intends to do - will shut down the government. The temporary funding bills which have been in operation since the beginning of the fiscal year lapse pretty much momentarily.
GWPDA | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:14 am | #

The red state-blue state thing is really starting to bug me.

...Here's what we can do...

1. Do away with the electoral college. It drives the blue state/red state thing and forces the candidates to concentrate on a few purple states instead of running national campaigns. People in very red or very blue state, have almost no incentive to vote.

2. Institute early voting in all states. Fight for secure internet voting based upon Social Security Number and Pin #, with the ability to check your vote afterwards. No more long lines. College students and working people can vote online, and the elderly and non-PC literate can still vote at the polls. Add paper trails and transparency to the vote tallying process.

3. Ballot initiiatives in every state to automate district drawing to end gerrymandering and make races competative again. Introduction of Super Districts and other ideas to end safe seats and winner take all elections.
Falstaff | 11.20.04 - 9:16 am | #

My paper "balances" Doonesbury with Mallard Filmore and apparently thinks that the two strips are of equal content. It has a full section on Faith every Saturday, which is roughly 95% Christian content. I have Pat Roberts and Sam Brownback to "represent me" in the Senate and Todd Tiahart in the House. I can answer the question "What's the matter with Kansas" with Reg's phrase: "...so lazy and stupid."

Or maybe stupid isn't quite right. Willfully ignorant is closer. Black and white, or Red and Blue, is so much easier than gray or rainbow hues.
Downbound | 11.20.04 - 9:16 am | #

Reg, maybe we start calling them the black states and the white states ... seriously, those are the only two colors that might be more emotionally significant to humans than blue and (especially) red. How the fuck did red and blue get chosen anyway? I wouldn't be surprised if Rove had a hand in it.
Demogenes Aristophanes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:17 am | #

"How the fuck did red and blue get chosen anyway?" -- Demogenes Aristophanes

It was an early test for the terrorism alert codes, and just as stupid.
Downbound | 11.20.04 - 9:31 am | #

Backslider - friends back in college did an intertwining medley of Jesus Christ Superstar and Sympathy for the Devil. You could hear a few heads pop as people realised what was going on.

And if you can't cover John Prine drunker than Cooter and higher than a kite, you aren't trying.

And saw Motorhead at The Channel in 85 or thereabouts. Quartet instead of trio. Scary crowd. And Lemmy was definitely cranked up, had that gleam in his eye of a guy that wasn't intending to sleep from the beginning of the US tour until the end.
Tom - Daai Tou Laam | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:35 am | #

I marched against VietNam and for choice back in the sixties. I feel like we have made no progress at all.
QuiltLady in NY

Back to the streets, darlin...i'll meet ya there...
Konopelli | 11.20.04 - 9:41 am | #

Falstaff, I like your practical suggestions and we've certainly got our work cut out for us.

We've allowed the philosophy of Jesus to be co-opted by panderers to moral adolescents stuck on the first level of the Kohlberg scale. Modern-day Pharisees working in tandem with cynical Roman overlords to harness the power of an Army of the Faithful terrorized in equal parts by the threats of Hell, the Other and Not Fitting In.

Forgive the religious rant. As an atheist with a religious upbringing, it's incredible to me that the Christ the Jesuits introduced to me is, seemingly in so many people's view, merely a crossing guard who guides you across the street and into a selfish Heaven if you have the proper bribe.

But you are much more practical than me right now ... I can't help dwelling on these things in the early AM. Also, Ben Stein's ugly mug is on the TV, blabbing about how great dying in Iraq is with Bob Novak, so I have to go into another room and count to 10 now ...
Demogenes Aristophanes | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:43 am | #

To continue the Red/Blue thing: Framing is everything. When Modale lost, it was framed as a total wipeout, and it *was* in the Electoral College, but the popular vote wasn't nearly so bad. He just lost by a bit in nearly every state.

It's so much easier to just ignore the middle ground. I've seen it here, too, where some poor soul makes a somewhat ambiguous statement and is immediately branded a troll.

Of course, being able to see the middle ground makes one a flip-flopper or wishy-washy.
Downbound | 11.20.04 - 9:44 am | #

And somehow these motherfuckers are more american than I. My mother's family came here in 1680. I dare anyone to tell me they are more American than I am.
QuiltLady in NY
My mother's family got here in 1617 (Virginia, Suffolk River)...NEEENER NEEENER NEEENER...
Konopelli | 11.20.04 - 9:48 am | #

Traditionally, it was:
Communist/Socialist = Red
Federalism/Republic = Blue

The press thought it clever to portray the Republican demographic with Red after the 2000 elections. Perhaps it was.

Am I to gather that anyone who votes for candidates you don't like based upon their personal beliefs is "stupid", or at best "willfully ignorant"? But voters who vote for candidates that you like based upon their beliefs are intelligent patriots?

I ask, because that's what it looks like you're saying.

I think it's possible for different people to arrive at different conclusions about something, even if all were basing their conclusion on the same available information. Not everyone assigns the same value to any given fact.

President Bush and Senator Kerry are good examples of this. There are those who believe everything that either says. There are those who believe neither. And there are those who believe one but not the other. And of course, there are those who seek corroboration and verification before believing either one. One needn't be stupid or ignorant to fall into any of those groups.

To assume one's dissenters are stupid is a form of blindness that handicaps one's argument.

Just observing, is all.
Special Ed | 11.20.04 - 9:49 am | #

Sorry--typo...that's 1627...
Konopelli | 11.20.04 - 9:49 am | #

Re: the anti-abortion thing they're trying to sneak through: I'm not sure how to feel about that. On the one hand, it's the red states that will suffer, since they already have higher teen pregnancy and illegitimate birth rates. It's white people who will suffer, since African American and Hispanic women do not seek out abortion nearly so much as white women. Lots of evangelical preachers who have for years been hectoring about the evils of abortion will find themselves with unmarried pregnant daughters on their hands (yes, it's true, the loosest girls in high school were the fundie preachers' daughters), which in and of itself might be worthwhile to see. Red-state redneck Bubbas for Bush will get to learn the joys of always wearing a condom if they want to have sex, and in paying child support if they opt not to.

Not that I hope this passes. I'm just sayin', it's quite possible that the people who think they want it the most are the ones who will be the first to get bitten in the ass by it.

Still and all, the tide isn't going to turn for the motard voters until they get a good taste of the medicine they've been clamoring for. Perhaps it would be a good thing if they get that taste sooner rather than later. The sooner they start pissing people off, the less likely they'll get the chance to start another war.
Jennifer | 11.20.04 - 10:05 am | #

Special Ed,

No, I'm not saying that. I made a generalization. That does not imply that "anyone who votes for candidates you don't like based upon their personal beliefs is "stupid", or at best "willfully ignorant"?" It implies that the majority of the people I know who did vote for Bush are ignorant, and are so because they chose not to even examine the facts. Conclusions are not part of the equation because the gut-based lizard-brained "moral value" is all the farther things go for them. When I attempt to engage in anything close to a dialog I get rote responses from them. My sister-in-law is a prime example. I challenged a statement that she made and rather than responding with facts, she just said I was spouting Democratic propaganda. She would not examine her own belief or, for that matter, offer me an opportunity to examine mine based on new information. That's the willfull ignorance I'm describing. Like Creationism, if you start from a faith basis and then create the world view, you cannot test it in the real world.
Downbound | 11.20.04 - 10:19 am | #

Special Ed...and used, too? When are you enlisting?
Ronjazz | 11.20.04 - 10:27 am | #

I've hated brian williams for years. He is the face of high-paid whoredome. For that matter, so is leno. Haven't watched his ass for years. Fuck him and his zillion dollars worth of antiqe cars. These vain, life-destroying bastards should all be first for the guillotine.

I had a brownie once at a mother-daughter coffeeshop in Amsterdam. Man that was the nicest, coolest, mellowest high, sitting at a table out on the sidewalk of Whateverstrasse. What a civilized country they are, differentiating between soft and hard drugs, into harm reduction rather than blanket prohibition. The Van Gogh museum was also the best art museum ever. Also the Reichmuseum with the vermeers.
Sharkbabe | 11.20.04 - 10:33 am | #

Singing one song to the tune and rhythm of another can be very satisfying.

How about the doxology "Praise God from whom all blessings flow" to the tune of "Hernando's Hideaway?"
mim | 11.20.04 - 10:35 am | #

Special Ed...and used, too? When are you enlisting?
Ronjazz | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 10:27 am | #

Retired Army, 1982 - 2002. When are you enlisting?
Special Ed | 11.20.04 - 10:35 am | #

Downbound, your experiences pretty much mirror my attempts at discussion with my more liberal friends. I believe it works both ways.

As I was saying, based upon one's personal beliefs, events are going to be perceived in ways at odds with other's perceptions, based upon their personal beliefs.

For instance, I don't believe socialism works in the long run, and only hobbles along in the short run.
I also believe that pure capitalism can leave something to be desired.
The question is how much compromise there should be between the two. Or more.

Stuff like that.
Special Ed | 11.20.04 - 11:00 am | #

That, at least, is a starting place, Ed. That's a whole lot better than the "we won, we're gonna stick it to you" trolls I've been seeing, or the
"you don't believe there was a conspiracy then you must be a troll" knee-jerk responses I've also seen.

And on that note, adieu.
Downbound | 11.20.04 - 11:27 am | #

Backslider : I , like you ,am developing a huge crush on Sharkbabe
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 11:36 am | #

actually!!! the preponderance of research shows moderate cannibis use slightly improves motor function. in order to get a negative result, researchers had to give amateur pilots large doses and put them in a flight simulator in blind instrument mode and throw curveball emergency situations at them.
luminous | 11.20.04 - 12:07 pm | #

and special Ed...dude , you want to have a fact based debate? I suspect not , but no matter . GW is singular in this election, sepearte and unique in that he is a war criminal , a religious fanatic and a liar. This is not something a Democrat told me , it is what I deduced by watching , reading , researching and keeping and open mind. Generally I fall to the left of Kerry on everything, so ,so far as talking points and being led like sheep , that ain't me nor my MO . But there are a few things that can't be debated that stand as fact.

GW ignores majority science that points out that there are No Glaciers in Glacier National Park

GW believes in the Rapture

GW allowed Don Rumsfeld to open and export torture camps world wide

GW is leaving the Nuk-u-lar non-proliferation treaty in favor of a Non-operational ( stunningly wasteful) missle defense system

GW is faith based initiatives , which is in direct contradiction of the constitutional seperation of church and state

GW does not tolerate dissent , and allows his surrogates to brand those that question him as traitors.Since the American revolution was founded on just that , defying tyranny , I should think that would strike a good republican as distincly UN-american

GW has accomplished nothing for forty years prior to becoming president.Then he started a war on a lie .

GW ignores majority science and allows More , not Less , toxins into my water , your water , your kids water ...and mercury never leaves the blood stream . Nor does lead, nor does cadmium , nor does chromium

GW and his VP refuse to fund alternative energies to even 1980's levels.Petroleum is poison and finite

GW lies like a cheap rug. Books and books and books my man , even some written by republicans

Gw wants to reform litigation so Corporations have More defense against the people whom their negligence harms. That does not benefit the majority , does it . ( right , the insurance rates...well, couldn't have a law that caps the Annual Profit Margins on them could we , no , cause that would be government interference )
Poor little corporations . Mean old John Edwards

GW is making new Nukes. Just as non-proliferation had a chance of ridding the world of these unholy inventions.

These are but a few of the facts that I learned living in the same world as you , and that you could have fatored into your choice for voting . That you choose not to , or that you felt these were less important than supporting the Chimps agenda means that you are either stupid , evil or just a sucker , like about 1/2 the country. Sorry , but the facts are just not on your side .

But that's just me
A.s.H. | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 12:17 pm | #

Am I to gather that anyone who votes for candidates you don't like based upon their personal beliefs is "stupid", or at best "willfully ignorant"? But voters who vote for candidates that you like based upon their beliefs are intelligent patriots?

I think it's valid to argue that anyone who votes for a particular candidate based upon beliefs that, given the vast preponderance of evidence, are untrue is either stupid or willfully ignorant. The PIPA study on the number of registered Republicans who continue to believe in an Iraq-9/11 link, or that there were large Iraqi WMD stockpiles in early 2003, provides a degree of support for that position.

I don't begrudge anyone basing a political position on a religious belief. I do find it reprehensible that certain things in the realm of fact can be elevated to the status of religious belief, and thus a question of 'disagreement'. That's as demeaning to religious belief as it is to those subjects of rational, fact-based analysis.

That's to say, we now have people who ascribe to those mythical Iraqi WMD stockpiles the same category of truth as the miracle of the loaves and the fishes. And a brief reading of Hume's 'On Miracles' should explain the problems inherent in 'miracle-izing' the subjects of political debate.
pseudonymous in nc | 11.20.04 - 2:11 pm | #

"That's a whole lot better than the "we won, we're gonna stick it to you"

I love how they have this attitude of "You will be assimilated; resistance is futile."

WRONG on BOTH counts!
Terry C | 11.20.04 - 5:58 pm | #

Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan