I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
That one's easy. We don't have a fucking clue what we're doing and we haven't got even a little support from the locals.
We'd need a whole butt load more of troops there to even begin to control that road.
That one's easy. We don't have a fucking clue what we're doing and we haven't got even a little support from the locals.
We'd need a whole butt load more of troops there to even begin to control that road.
What are you talking about? According to FOX we are victorious. We have crushed the resistance so Iraq can throw free and fair elections
What are you talking about? According to FOX we are victorious. We have crushed the resistance so Iraq can throw free and fair elections
The insurgents are just big cheaters.
The insurgents are just big cheaters.
Just Wondering...
Have A Nice, Hot Cup O' Joe!
Just Wondering...
Have A Nice, Hot Cup O' Joe!
maybe that is the next made for teevee battle. they will announce that they plan to do it, then advertise it for a couple of weeks. then they will have another stunning military success like fallujah.
maybe that is the next made for teevee battle. they will announce that they plan to do it, then advertise it for a couple of weeks. then they will have another stunning military success like fallujah.
Same reason "we" couldn't secure weapons dumps all over Iraq...some combination of what is clearly ineptitude based on wishful thinking, too few troops and inadequate force protection to carry out a serious occupation, and far more insurgents and infiltration of "our Iraqis" than anyone ever predicted or currently admits to. Also the gross asymetry of a guerrilla war conducted against a conventional, foreign army.
Same reason "we" couldn't secure weapons dumps all over Iraq...some combination of what is clearly ineptitude based on wishful thinking, too few troops and inadequate force protection to carry out a serious occupation, and far more insurgents and infiltration of "our Iraqis" than anyone ever predicted or currently admits to. Also the gross asymetry of a guerrilla war conducted against a conventional, foreign army.
i blame bush.
i blame bush.
Oh, I see. No doubt you'd like this road to be secured so you can use it to hold gay weddings! In Taxachussetts!
You have to get over this irrational hatred of a sitting president.
Oh, I see. No doubt you'd like this road to be secured so you can use it to hold gay weddings! In Taxachussetts!
You have to get over this irrational hatred of a sitting president.
What are you talking about? According to FOX we are victorious. We have crushed the resistance so Iraq can throw free and fair elections
I know absolutely nothing about military strategy or tactics so I have no idea if invading Fallujah broke the resistence in its current form or not.
But I do notice the 900 pound gorilla in the room. Even if the US military beats the insurgents time and time again it's pretty obvious that we're going to have to maintain at least 100,000 troops in Iraq for the next few years.
Because while a bit outmatched by the US Marine Corps, I have no doubt the insurgents would obliterate the "Iraqi" army.
That to me seems the real problem.
What are you talking about? According to FOX we are victorious. We have crushed the resistance so Iraq can throw free and fair elections
I know absolutely nothing about military strategy or tactics so I have no idea if invading Fallujah broke the resistence in its current form or not.
But I do notice the 900 pound gorilla in the room. Even if the US military beats the insurgents time and time again it's pretty obvious that we're going to have to maintain at least 100,000 troops in Iraq for the next few years.
Because while a bit outmatched by the US Marine Corps, I have no doubt the insurgents would obliterate the "Iraqi" army.
That to me seems the real problem.
Easy: Not enough troops.
But luckily the draft will return soon.
Easy: Not enough troops.
But luckily the draft will return soon.
the thing is, it has to be timed properly. right now there is no need for a stunning military success because people are satisfied with the stunning military success in fallujah. after that success wears off they will orchestrate another one.
the thing is, it has to be timed properly. right now there is no need for a stunning military success because people are satisfied with the stunning military success in fallujah. after that success wears off they will orchestrate another one.
anyway, major combat operations are over.
anyway, major combat operations are over.
Because the invasion of Iraq is the greatest fuckup since Varus decided to take a stroll to the Teutonberg Forest.
Because the invasion of Iraq is the greatest fuckup since Varus decided to take a stroll to the Teutonberg Forest.
Just Wondering...
Have A Nice, Hot Cup O' Joe!
Joe Vecchio
Boy, Joe, I sure hope all your blogwhoring increases traffic to your site! Not that you're getting any hits from me, mind you.
Just sayin'.
Just Wondering...
Have A Nice, Hot Cup O' Joe!
Joe Vecchio
Boy, Joe, I sure hope all your blogwhoring increases traffic to your site! Not that you're getting any hits from me, mind you.
Just sayin'.
OT,
Haloscan is real piece of crap.
OT,
Haloscan is real piece of crap.
haloscan is pissing me off
haloscan is pissing me off
Basic premise of guerilla warfare.
Keep your opponent on the run. What... you haven't noticed this yet?
Obviously the dumbfucks in charge haven't.
Shit... I'm just a lowly grunt turned helicopter crewman.
Like Hackworth has been sayin for a long time now - this is what you get for putting politician card punchers in charge of a war.
And, who's paying the ultimate cost for it?
Not them.
Basic premise of guerilla warfare.
Keep your opponent on the run. What... you haven't noticed this yet?
Obviously the dumbfucks in charge haven't.
Shit... I'm just a lowly grunt turned helicopter crewman.
Like Hackworth has been sayin for a long time now - this is what you get for putting politician card punchers in charge of a war.
And, who's paying the ultimate cost for it?
Not them.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Same reason "we" couldn't secure weapons dumps all over Iraq...some combination of ineptitude based on wishful thinking, too few troops to carry out a serious occupation, far more insurgents and infiltration of "our Iraqis" than the Pentagon's genius crew were/are willing to imagine, much less admit, and the gross assymetry of a guerrilla war waged by fanatics and angry locals against a conventional, foreign army.
What should be surprising is that any of this stuff is surprising. I was a total skeptic about the "national security" threat from Saddam, thought that the outcome of the war was more likely to be some negative combination of "unintended consequences" than a triumph of neo-con ideological assumptions, thought the generals were being shunted aside in the planning, etc. etc. - but I have to admit, I'm still shaking my head at the obvious ineptitude of these clowns, the heels dug even deeper in the wake of their blatant failures and misconceptions, and the fact that the "liberators" have generated an even more bold, self-sacrificing opposition than the monster Saddam.
Same reason "we" couldn't secure weapons dumps all over Iraq...some combination of ineptitude based on wishful thinking, too few troops to carry out a serious occupation, far more insurgents and infiltration of "our Iraqis" than the Pentagon's genius crew were/are willing to imagine, much less admit, and the gross assymetry of a guerrilla war waged by fanatics and angry locals against a conventional, foreign army.
What should be surprising is that any of this stuff is surprising. I was a total skeptic about the "national security" threat from Saddam, thought that the outcome of the war was more likely to be some negative combination of "unintended consequences" than a triumph of neo-con ideological assumptions, thought the generals were being shunted aside in the planning, etc. etc. - but I have to admit, I'm still shaking my head at the obvious ineptitude of these clowns, the heels dug even deeper in the wake of their blatant failures and misconceptions, and the fact that the "liberators" have generated an even more bold, self-sacrificing opposition than the monster Saddam.
"...greatest fuckup since Varus decided to take a stroll to the Teutonberg Forest'
Hey - that's my favourite scenario in Rome:Total War! I've even defeated the Barbarians a couple of times.
Maybe they should do an America:Total War addon.
"...greatest fuckup since Varus decided to take a stroll to the Teutonberg Forest'
Hey - that's my favourite scenario in Rome:Total War! I've even defeated the Barbarians a couple of times.
Maybe they should do an America:Total War addon.
If the road was secured just think of all the mercenaries (or security contractors) we'd be putting outta work...
If the road was secured just think of all the mercenaries (or security contractors) we'd be putting outta work...
It's sad really. This was completely predictable.
I was watching Cspan a little bit ago, it was pathetic listening to republican callers who said they were shocked! shocked, I tell you to see what the republican congress was getting up to so soon after the election.
What the fuck did they think was going to happen?
It's sad really. This was completely predictable.
I was watching Cspan a little bit ago, it was pathetic listening to republican callers who said they were shocked! shocked, I tell you to see what the republican congress was getting up to so soon after the election.
What the fuck did they think was going to happen?
I guess no one in neo-con land has ever read "The 7 Pillars of Wisdom" or seen Lawrence of Arabia.
I guess no one in neo-con land has ever read "The 7 Pillars of Wisdom" or seen Lawrence of Arabia.
Oh well, guess I'll call my travel agent and cancel that Christmas vacation in Baghdad.
Oh well, guess I'll call my travel agent and cancel that Christmas vacation in Baghdad.
I was explaining this war to my 18-year old son yesterday. We can kill 500 Iraqis and it doesn't do us a damn bit of good. While our foes -- be they "insurgents" or just Iraqis who want us out -- can kill one American and have it looked on as a victory.
Oddly enough, I told him, one of the people who understood that kind of lopsided calculus was our own General George Washington. Central to his strategy was the fact that every day that the British had to pay to fight the American insurgency was one day more than they wanted, and one day closer to independence.
Y'know who else understands this about Washington? Osama bin Laden. Witness his last video, where he said outright he wants to bankrupt us.
You would think a country that owes its very existence to insurgency and guerilla war would display a greater awareness of the pitfalls we face in places like Iraq.
It very much disturbs me that our enemies understand some of the most fundamental aspects of our history better than we do.
The sad reality is there is simply no precedent for what we are doing in Iraq that did not end very, very badly.
I was explaining this war to my 18-year old son yesterday. We can kill 500 Iraqis and it doesn't do us a damn bit of good. While our foes -- be they "insurgents" or just Iraqis who want us out -- can kill one American and have it looked on as a victory.
Oddly enough, I told him, one of the people who understood that kind of lopsided calculus was our own General George Washington. Central to his strategy was the fact that every day that the British had to pay to fight the American insurgency was one day more than they wanted, and one day closer to independence.
Y'know who else understands this about Washington? Osama bin Laden. Witness his last video, where he said outright he wants to bankrupt us.
You would think a country that owes its very existence to insurgency and guerilla war would display a greater awareness of the pitfalls we face in places like Iraq.
It very much disturbs me that our enemies understand some of the most fundamental aspects of our history better than we do.
The sad reality is there is simply no precedent for what we are doing in Iraq that did not end very, very badly.
fourlegsgood,
Seriously, you heard buyers remorse on CSPAN? From Repub callers?
Excellent.............
I do heartily understand your frustration, but on the bright side....
fourlegsgood,
Seriously, you heard buyers remorse on CSPAN? From Repub callers?
Excellent.............
I do heartily understand your frustration, but on the bright side....
Yep,
this delayed posting glitch in the Haloscan API is a treat.
Yep,
this delayed posting glitch in the Haloscan API is a treat.
"BAGHDAD, Iraq The U-S military says five American soldiers have been wounded in a car bombing along an airport road in western Baghdad."
WTF?!? Just how many damn airports and roads to them are there in west Baghdad? What a perfect example of not being able to say shit with a mouth full of it.
This and the regular shelling of the Green Zone says it all. The U.S. in Iraq is truely fucked. I just can't figure out if the refusal to ask for more troops is (publicly) is a because they like getting shelled or if they figure it will be less of a cluster fuck when they have to bug out.
"BAGHDAD, Iraq The U-S military says five American soldiers have been wounded in a car bombing along an airport road in western Baghdad."
WTF?!? Just how many damn airports and roads to them are there in west Baghdad? What a perfect example of not being able to say shit with a mouth full of it.
This and the regular shelling of the Green Zone says it all. The U.S. in Iraq is truely fucked. I just can't figure out if the refusal to ask for more troops is (publicly) is a because they like getting shelled or if they figure it will be less of a cluster fuck when they have to bug out.
chimpy is on CNN blathering on about free trade.
He says we're willing to help any country who's willing to fight corruption in their country with "relief from the crushing burden of debt."
In the meantime his party protects a corrupt politician in a leadership position and imposes crushing debt on the people of america.
The man is completely clueless.
chimpy is on CNN blathering on about free trade.
He says we're willing to help any country who's willing to fight corruption in their country with "relief from the crushing burden of debt."
In the meantime his party protects a corrupt politician in a leadership position and imposes crushing debt on the people of america.
The man is completely clueless.
On November 8, 2004 two members of the National Guard located in the greater geographical area in which I live (St. Joseph, MO --- AKA "the place where the Pony Express began and Jesse James ended!!!") died while protecting a convoy on that highway
They died to protect Charles Deurfer...
Here is the quandry --- Would I feel more outraged IF they had died protecting Wolfie or Condi or Rummy as opposed to the man who stated that the shrub administration was full of BS???
I don't know.......
On November 8, 2004 two members of the National Guard located in the greater geographical area in which I live (St. Joseph, MO --- AKA "the place where the Pony Express began and Jesse James ended!!!") died while protecting a convoy on that highway
They died to protect Charles Deurfer...
Here is the quandry --- Would I feel more outraged IF they had died protecting Wolfie or Condi or Rummy as opposed to the man who stated that the shrub administration was full of BS???
I don't know.......
It's sad really. This was completely predictable.
I was watching Cspan a little bit ago, it was pathetic listening to republican callers who said they were shocked! shocked, I tell you to see what the republican congress was getting up to so soon after the election.
What the fuck did they think was going to happen?
fourlegsgood
I agree, it is sad. There's a lot of naive moderate Republicans out there who think there is still something called "checks and balances". They think the president is still accountable to the people. And they're wrong.
I saw a poll right after the election where the majority of the electorate wanted Bush to start fixing Iraq and the economy. And I thought, do people actually think that arrogant fuck gives a shit about what the American people want him to do over the next four years?
It's sad really. This was completely predictable.
I was watching Cspan a little bit ago, it was pathetic listening to republican callers who said they were shocked! shocked, I tell you to see what the republican congress was getting up to so soon after the election.
What the fuck did they think was going to happen?
fourlegsgood
I agree, it is sad. There's a lot of naive moderate Republicans out there who think there is still something called "checks and balances". They think the president is still accountable to the people. And they're wrong.
I saw a poll right after the election where the majority of the electorate wanted Bush to start fixing Iraq and the economy. And I thought, do people actually think that arrogant fuck gives a shit about what the American people want him to do over the next four years?
Hacking it in Iraq
A safe ride into Baghdad? Priceless. (For once, I beat the A-man by 18 hours on this one...)
Hacking it in Iraq
A safe ride into Baghdad? Priceless. (For once, I beat the A-man by 18 hours on this one...)
kent, yes I did. Then I heard a woman call in on the democrat line and say "all you people complaining about Bush, well, you voted for him, what did you think was going to happen?" or something like that.
It's too late now. The republicans won't listen to disgruntled republicans any more than they'll listen to us.
kent, yes I did. Then I heard a woman call in on the democrat line and say "all you people complaining about Bush, well, you voted for him, what did you think was going to happen?" or something like that.
It's too late now. The republicans won't listen to disgruntled republicans any more than they'll listen to us.
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Democrats are as cowardly as the Marines in Fallujah. That's why they lose.
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Democrats are as cowardly as the Marines in Fallujah. That's why they lose.
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Funny thing is at the end of those long 50 months, they're going to be blaming Clinton for what went wrong in Iraq when they finally declare victory and leave.
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Funny thing is at the end of those long 50 months, they're going to be blaming Clinton for what went wrong in Iraq when they finally declare victory and leave.
It's too late now. The republicans won't listen to disgruntled republicans any more than they'll listen to us.
Having seen the light, I can only hope that they join us in '06 to make some needed adjustments.
The Republicans were never planning on listening to anyone outside their little bubble enclosed enclave, they just needed to swindle enough to get their chance. So I will take this lemon and try to make some lemonade.
It's too late now. The republicans won't listen to disgruntled republicans any more than they'll listen to us.
Having seen the light, I can only hope that they join us in '06 to make some needed adjustments.
The Republicans were never planning on listening to anyone outside their little bubble enclosed enclave, they just needed to swindle enough to get their chance. So I will take this lemon and try to make some lemonade.
I saw a poll right after the election where the majority of the electorate wanted Bush to start fixing Iraq and the economy.
Oh right. Like he was so successful the first four years. Guess what folks, you gave the guy who fucked things up the first time the opportunity to fix the things he fucked up.
Good plan! No, you're going to get more of the same.
I saw a poll right after the election where the majority of the electorate wanted Bush to start fixing Iraq and the economy.
Oh right. Like he was so successful the first four years. Guess what folks, you gave the guy who fucked things up the first time the opportunity to fix the things he fucked up.
Good plan! No, you're going to get more of the same.
Silly Rabbit. Securing infrastructure is for people serious about achieving their goals. As long as this war is about increasing Dick's Halliburton profits there will continue to be these security breaches in Iraq.
Silly Rabbit. Securing infrastructure is for people serious about achieving their goals. As long as this war is about increasing Dick's Halliburton profits there will continue to be these security breaches in Iraq.
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Walter Cronkite
Actually, I plan on enjoying it - I plan on savoring the site of Republican dismay when every non-evangelical, non-end-of-days Bush voter wakes up and realizes the guy is out of control and doesn't give a shit what the majority of Americans think.
Sounds to me like it's already happening. And yeah, I'm liking it.
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Walter Cronkite
Actually, I plan on enjoying it - I plan on savoring the site of Republican dismay when every non-evangelical, non-end-of-days Bush voter wakes up and realizes the guy is out of control and doesn't give a shit what the majority of Americans think.
Sounds to me like it's already happening. And yeah, I'm liking it.
As war profiteers, these guys make JP Morgan look like a kid running a lemonade stand.
excerpt:
"“...Only twenty-four at the [Civil] war’s beginning, [J. Pierpont] Morgan perceived from the first that wars were for the shrewd to profit from and poor to die in...He received a tip that a store of government-owned rifles had been condemned as defective and with the simplicity of genius he bought them from the government for $17,500 on one day and sold them back to the government on the next for $110,000...A Congressional committee investigating his little deal said of him and other hijacking profiteers, ‘Worse than traitors are the men who, pretending loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation.’”"
As war profiteers, these guys make JP Morgan look like a kid running a lemonade stand.
excerpt:
"“...Only twenty-four at the [Civil] war’s beginning, [J. Pierpont] Morgan perceived from the first that wars were for the shrewd to profit from and poor to die in...He received a tip that a store of government-owned rifles had been condemned as defective and with the simplicity of genius he bought them from the government for $17,500 on one day and sold them back to the government on the next for $110,000...A Congressional committee investigating his little deal said of him and other hijacking profiteers, ‘Worse than traitors are the men who, pretending loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation.’”"
We can't secure the road to Baghdad because Clinton got a blowjob from an intern.
Oh, and because Democrats aren't buying enough "support the troops" ribbon magnets.
We can't secure the road to Baghdad because Clinton got a blowjob from an intern.
Oh, and because Democrats aren't buying enough "support the troops" ribbon magnets.
Isn't it about time that we realized the "bungling" in Iraq is the plan, and the agenda and results for Iraq aren't "success" in the traditional sense?
Isn't it about time that we realized the "bungling" in Iraq is the plan, and the agenda and results for Iraq aren't "success" in the traditional sense?
Well, if they weren't there in the first place, they wouldn't have to worry about getting hurt, right? I mean, the Iraqis have to be there, unless miserable failure wants to move them all over here so we can take over their country.
I AM SO PISSED when I think about those people living their lives in their own country and then we decide to cheneying shock and awe them and then continue the killing of the residents of Iraq.
Well, if they weren't there in the first place, they wouldn't have to worry about getting hurt, right? I mean, the Iraqis have to be there, unless miserable failure wants to move them all over here so we can take over their country.
I AM SO PISSED when I think about those people living their lives in their own country and then we decide to cheneying shock and awe them and then continue the killing of the residents of Iraq.
and Yes, I do have compassion for our troops and I wish they were not in harms way. BUT I did not put them there. I marched against this cheneying war.
and Yes, I do have compassion for our troops and I wish they were not in harms way. BUT I did not put them there. I marched against this cheneying war.
The reason? It's not cost effective. We're only losing a couple of troops on that road every month. No big deal.
The reason? It's not cost effective. We're only losing a couple of troops on that road every month. No big deal.
Why should the road from Baghdad to its airport be any safer than the one from Saigon to Tan Son Nhat during the Vietnam War? We didn't have enough troops for that war and we certainly don't have enough deployed for this one. It would probably take at least one full division deployed along the length of the road to secure it 24/7 and our commanders in Baghdad don't have the forces to assign that many troops to a point defense. So, our forces will just continue to bleed to death from a thousand tiny cuts inflicted every day.
Why should the road from Baghdad to its airport be any safer than the one from Saigon to Tan Son Nhat during the Vietnam War? We didn't have enough troops for that war and we certainly don't have enough deployed for this one. It would probably take at least one full division deployed along the length of the road to secure it 24/7 and our commanders in Baghdad don't have the forces to assign that many troops to a point defense. So, our forces will just continue to bleed to death from a thousand tiny cuts inflicted every day.
I was watching Cspan a little bit ago, it was pathetic listening to republican callers who said they were shocked! shocked, I tell you to see what the republican congress was getting up to so soon after the election.
What the fuck did they think was going to happen?
fourlegsgood | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #
Ha ha ha ha ha aaaah ha ha ha ha
Yup... I wonder, too.
I was watching Cspan a little bit ago, it was pathetic listening to republican callers who said they were shocked! shocked, I tell you to see what the republican congress was getting up to so soon after the election.
What the fuck did they think was going to happen?
fourlegsgood | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #
Ha ha ha ha ha aaaah ha ha ha ha
Yup... I wonder, too.
Isn't it about time that we realized the "bungling" in Iraq is the plan, and the agenda and results for Iraq aren't "success" in the traditional sense?
I think we have two different perspectives. The Republicans tend to see things in military terms.
"Success" for them means beating the insurgents in a pitched battle.
There's no question they can do that.
But "success" in the form of being able to leave is eluding them so right now things seem to be stalemated. "We" can beat the insurgents on the battlefield with minimal (and as bad as they are 25 dead soldiers to take a whole city is minimal) but the insurgents know that as soon as "we" leave, they can take over the country.
That's my definition of a stalemate.
Isn't it about time that we realized the "bungling" in Iraq is the plan, and the agenda and results for Iraq aren't "success" in the traditional sense?
I think we have two different perspectives. The Republicans tend to see things in military terms.
"Success" for them means beating the insurgents in a pitched battle.
There's no question they can do that.
But "success" in the form of being able to leave is eluding them so right now things seem to be stalemated. "We" can beat the insurgents on the battlefield with minimal (and as bad as they are 25 dead soldiers to take a whole city is minimal) but the insurgents know that as soon as "we" leave, they can take over the country.
That's my definition of a stalemate.
I LOVE this thing with Delay...and the appontment of Condi...hope Wolfowitz gets Defense when Rummy retires. This administration and their party are such scum that the best we can hope for is that they let it all hang out on their second time around. They've made the Nixon administration look honest and the Reagan administration look moderate. I just hope that whoever voted for these mooks bears a least some of the brunt of what's in store.
I LOVE this thing with Delay...and the appontment of Condi...hope Wolfowitz gets Defense when Rummy retires. This administration and their party are such scum that the best we can hope for is that they let it all hang out on their second time around. They've made the Nixon administration look honest and the Reagan administration look moderate. I just hope that whoever voted for these mooks bears a least some of the brunt of what's in store.
From Counterpunch in June, but don't let that stop you reading it.
Also, here, originally from the NYT:
Nineteen months after toppling Saddam Hussein, the American military and Iraqi forces have yet to secure what is arguably the country's most important stretch of road - the five-mile umbilical cord connecting Iraq to the world, the transit point for diplomats, business people, aid workers, security contractors and journalists. The security vacuum along it is emblematic of the sheer inability to maintain control over key areas of the country.
Like an initiation rite, they have to run a gantlet on the six-lane highway before they can even begin work here. The assaults are frequent and varied: insurgents with Kalashnikovs staging coordinated ambushes using four or five cars, or popping up on an overpass with rocket-propelled grenades, setting off chains of artillery shells buried in the ground. Over nine weeks last summer, the military recorded 200 attacks.
Last month, at least two dozen major attacks took place along the east-west artery and nine inside Camp Victory, the operations center of the American-led forces next to the airport, according to an analysis by a Western security contractor. Those numbers are almost certainly a gross underestimate, said a security adviser for a Western television network.
You can also download a satellite photo of the road if you have login privileges. It's basically a shooting gallery.
But that's been a hallmark of the Iraq debacle.
From Counterpunch in June, but don't let that stop you reading it.
Also, here, originally from the NYT:
Nineteen months after toppling Saddam Hussein, the American military and Iraqi forces have yet to secure what is arguably the country's most important stretch of road - the five-mile umbilical cord connecting Iraq to the world, the transit point for diplomats, business people, aid workers, security contractors and journalists. The security vacuum along it is emblematic of the sheer inability to maintain control over key areas of the country.
Like an initiation rite, they have to run a gantlet on the six-lane highway before they can even begin work here. The assaults are frequent and varied: insurgents with Kalashnikovs staging coordinated ambushes using four or five cars, or popping up on an overpass with rocket-propelled grenades, setting off chains of artillery shells buried in the ground. Over nine weeks last summer, the military recorded 200 attacks.
Last month, at least two dozen major attacks took place along the east-west artery and nine inside Camp Victory, the operations center of the American-led forces next to the airport, according to an analysis by a Western security contractor. Those numbers are almost certainly a gross underestimate, said a security adviser for a Western television network.
You can also download a satellite photo of the road if you have login privileges. It's basically a shooting gallery.
But that's been a hallmark of the Iraq debacle.
NOT ENOUGH TROOPS!!!
NOT ENOUGH TROOPS!!!
is a dream a lie if it don't come true
or is it something worse?
is a dream a lie if it don't come true
or is it something worse?
Oh, and the trip from downtown Baghdad to the airport is about the same distance as the trip from downtown Chicago to O'Hare. (And Baghdad has a similar population to Chicago.)
Oh, and the trip from downtown Baghdad to the airport is about the same distance as the trip from downtown Chicago to O'Hare. (And Baghdad has a similar population to Chicago.)
I'll do you one better. Reid, pay attention-take some advice
From AP:
or Democrats trying to figure out what they need to do as an opposition party, there should be little confusion about how to approach the new role, or the newly acknowledged role. They have to come out slugging. There’s recent history to draw on; it wasn’t so long ago that Republicans, despite always being competitive (and sometimes even dominant) in presidential elections, seemed irrevocably tagged as the opposition party. Governors’ mansions, statehouses, city halls, both chambers of Congress -- all were dominated by Democrats for more than two generations.
Republicans didn’t just let the Democrats dig their own grave, though that wasn’t an implausible strategy. They knew what they wanted and they fought for it. They actively went out and undermined and discredited the very foundations of the Democratic Party, slowly disassembling its coalition and appropriating its power. They began with the obvious, which is to define yourself by what you say “no” to: taxes, regulation, a woman’s right to end a pregnancy at her own discretion. That’s the essence of opposition. But to close the deal, they made people feel righteous about what they were against. So government programs become government waste, and regulation became red tape. It was clear that the government needed to get off the backs of the people, and, of course, every life was sacred. Suddenly they had core values.
The GOP assault was strategic, relentless, and completely unaccommodating to the notion that there was any redeeming value to the other side. “Liberal” became a dirty word and the U.S. government, that fabulous piece of constitutional architecture, became a force for evil.
Democrats didn't lose the election because they were tagged as obstructionists, or because they actually were obstructionists, or because they spent too much time obstructing rather than advancing a compelling alternative agenda.
They lost because they got out-muscled in Ohio, Florida, South Dakota, and all of those southern states where they lost Senate seats. In Texas, where Tom DeLay so brilliantly out-hustled them, Democrats lost four incumbents, two of whom, Martin Frost and Charlie Stenholm, had been in the House for 25 years. Those old Texas hands were not out of touch with their districts; they just got hammered by the other side, and not about ideas. Stenholm is so conservative that he spent a good part of the last decade explaining why he had not switched parties. Still, the bull’s-eye on his back could not have been bigger if his last name were Rangel, instead of Stenholm. And they got him.
The GOP just played the game better, harder, and with more feeling. Who would think of a second round of redistricting between Census counts? People who understand the need to press every advantage and then do it. There’s no question that some policy repositioning is in order, but that’s routine work for any party that
I'll do you one better. Reid, pay attention-take some advice
From AP:
or Democrats trying to figure out what they need to do as an opposition party, there should be little confusion about how to approach the new role, or the newly acknowledged role. They have to come out slugging. There’s recent history to draw on; it wasn’t so long ago that Republicans, despite always being competitive (and sometimes even dominant) in presidential elections, seemed irrevocably tagged as the opposition party. Governors’ mansions, statehouses, city halls, both chambers of Congress -- all were dominated by Democrats for more than two generations.
Republicans didn’t just let the Democrats dig their own grave, though that wasn’t an implausible strategy. They knew what they wanted and they fought for it. They actively went out and undermined and discredited the very foundations of the Democratic Party, slowly disassembling its coalition and appropriating its power. They began with the obvious, which is to define yourself by what you say “no” to: taxes, regulation, a woman’s right to end a pregnancy at her own discretion. That’s the essence of opposition. But to close the deal, they made people feel righteous about what they were against. So government programs become government waste, and regulation became red tape. It was clear that the government needed to get off the backs of the people, and, of course, every life was sacred. Suddenly they had core values.
The GOP assault was strategic, relentless, and completely unaccommodating to the notion that there was any redeeming value to the other side. “Liberal” became a dirty word and the U.S. government, that fabulous piece of constitutional architecture, became a force for evil.
Democrats didn't lose the election because they were tagged as obstructionists, or because they actually were obstructionists, or because they spent too much time obstructing rather than advancing a compelling alternative agenda.
They lost because they got out-muscled in Ohio, Florida, South Dakota, and all of those southern states where they lost Senate seats. In Texas, where Tom DeLay so brilliantly out-hustled them, Democrats lost four incumbents, two of whom, Martin Frost and Charlie Stenholm, had been in the House for 25 years. Those old Texas hands were not out of touch with their districts; they just got hammered by the other side, and not about ideas. Stenholm is so conservative that he spent a good part of the last decade explaining why he had not switched parties. Still, the bull’s-eye on his back could not have been bigger if his last name were Rangel, instead of Stenholm. And they got him.
The GOP just played the game better, harder, and with more feeling. Who would think of a second round of redistricting between Census counts? People who understand the need to press every advantage and then do it. There’s no question that some policy repositioning is in order, but that’s routine work for any party that
Well, US troops on their way to the airport can just shoot "insurgents" and contractors living off the Federal teat can pay $5000 of taxpayer money per ride.
Therefore, as far as the Bush Administration is concerned, there is no problem whatsoever with the road to the Baghdad Airport.
Furthermore, they wish you'd report on "Tabby", the little girl from Iraq who was flown over for medical care, and not on those thousands of dead civilians. "What's wrong with you liberals?"
Well, US troops on their way to the airport can just shoot "insurgents" and contractors living off the Federal teat can pay $5000 of taxpayer money per ride.
Therefore, as far as the Bush Administration is concerned, there is no problem whatsoever with the road to the Baghdad Airport.
Furthermore, they wish you'd report on "Tabby", the little girl from Iraq who was flown over for medical care, and not on those thousands of dead civilians. "What's wrong with you liberals?"
This sort of question came up on Billmon's blog a few months ago. I'm too lazy to actually find it, but someone in the know, apparently, commented (and Billmon posted about the comment) that the US had changed things around, and actually operates from a smaller airport elsewhere.
This sort of question came up on Billmon's blog a few months ago. I'm too lazy to actually find it, but someone in the know, apparently, commented (and Billmon posted about the comment) that the US had changed things around, and actually operates from a smaller airport elsewhere.
new mastercard ad:
-Taxi Ride cost from the airport to downtown Baghdad? $5,000.00
-Added protection from US military? 1 dead marine.
-Freedom on the march? Priceless.
new mastercard ad:
-Taxi Ride cost from the airport to downtown Baghdad? $5,000.00
-Added protection from US military? 1 dead marine.
-Freedom on the march? Priceless.
Iraq is the biggest fuck up since Abe Lincoln said "I think I will take in a play tonight"
What I can't understand is how Bush 1 can go on supporting Junior. I mean, at least Bush 1 served in world war 2. He was head of the CIA for God's sake. Has he seen what chimpy is doing to that institution?
Bush1 needs to come out and apologise to the world for what his son is doing. "My fellow Americans, we never should have let him out of kindergarten"
Iraq is the biggest fuck up since Abe Lincoln said "I think I will take in a play tonight"
What I can't understand is how Bush 1 can go on supporting Junior. I mean, at least Bush 1 served in world war 2. He was head of the CIA for God's sake. Has he seen what chimpy is doing to that institution?
Bush1 needs to come out and apologise to the world for what his son is doing. "My fellow Americans, we never should have let him out of kindergarten"
isn't the airport closed until further notice anyway? I thought Allawi did that a week or two ago.
isn't the airport closed until further notice anyway? I thought Allawi did that a week or two ago.
That war is over, as is the one in Afghanistan, but Cheney hasn't made his quota yet, and the chimp is far too stupid to see the truth. And Live Free Or Die, that's just bullshit that the repigs fought harder. They stole 2 elections. Stole them. That's not fighting harder, that's illegal, immoral activity. That's stealing democracy for their own personal gain. They deserve prison and nothing else. America has been lost from the inside, which was inevitable as presidents were allowed to pardon felons, then allowed to rehire the same convicted liars and thieves, as Bushco did. No better than the mafia, in fact, not nearly as well-organized or smart. But there we are, with our country virtually lost, and whatever we manage to wrest back from them will be quite different from what they stole. elections from this point are for suckers. The Iraqis have the right idea.
That war is over, as is the one in Afghanistan, but Cheney hasn't made his quota yet, and the chimp is far too stupid to see the truth. And Live Free Or Die, that's just bullshit that the repigs fought harder. They stole 2 elections. Stole them. That's not fighting harder, that's illegal, immoral activity. That's stealing democracy for their own personal gain. They deserve prison and nothing else. America has been lost from the inside, which was inevitable as presidents were allowed to pardon felons, then allowed to rehire the same convicted liars and thieves, as Bushco did. No better than the mafia, in fact, not nearly as well-organized or smart. But there we are, with our country virtually lost, and whatever we manage to wrest back from them will be quite different from what they stole. elections from this point are for suckers. The Iraqis have the right idea.
They are so blinded by their ignorance that they see no history, no morality, no sense of goodness and courage. They are the bullies, the true weaklings that would destroy the finest example of human governance in history, just to make some fucked-up point that only a few deserve what they can steal, the rest can take a leap.
Typical liberal bloviating. Tell me, what have you done? You sit here on this blog and cuss at me. But did you or your party ever organize to stop the right wing? Last time I checked you were awol for:
* Demanding justice for the killing of the Kennedys and King? Nope. You were busy believing that some lone nut had done it and calling each other conspiracy theorists.
* Organizing for the protection of unions as they were under assualt during Reagan. Again, awol. Where were you? Probably getting your rocks off in Club Med, while the right was busy dismantling the true opposition to corporate power.
* Organizing for the removal of Ken Starr and the Clinton Inquisition. Again awol. Where were you? Probably listening to talk shows and yelling at your TV, but doing nothing.
* Organizaing against election theft in 2000 and 2004. Again awol. In fact most of you are sticking your heads in the sand and pretending nothing happened.
You are pathetic and weak. You're all talk. That's why I support the GOP. They walk the talk, right or wrong, at least they stand up for what they believe in.
They are so blinded by their ignorance that they see no history, no morality, no sense of goodness and courage. They are the bullies, the true weaklings that would destroy the finest example of human governance in history, just to make some fucked-up point that only a few deserve what they can steal, the rest can take a leap.
Typical liberal bloviating. Tell me, what have you done? You sit here on this blog and cuss at me. But did you or your party ever organize to stop the right wing? Last time I checked you were awol for:
* Demanding justice for the killing of the Kennedys and King? Nope. You were busy believing that some lone nut had done it and calling each other conspiracy theorists.
* Organizing for the protection of unions as they were under assualt during Reagan. Again, awol. Where were you? Probably getting your rocks off in Club Med, while the right was busy dismantling the true opposition to corporate power.
* Organizing for the removal of Ken Starr and the Clinton Inquisition. Again awol. Where were you? Probably listening to talk shows and yelling at your TV, but doing nothing.
* Organizaing against election theft in 2000 and 2004. Again awol. In fact most of you are sticking your heads in the sand and pretending nothing happened.
You are pathetic and weak. You're all talk. That's why I support the GOP. They walk the talk, right or wrong, at least they stand up for what they believe in.
"At least 10% of each reconstruction project budget in Iraq goes on protection".
Shouldn't that read, "At least 10% of..each U.S. tax dollar.."?
"At least 10% of each reconstruction project budget in Iraq goes on protection".
Shouldn't that read, "At least 10% of..each U.S. tax dollar.."?
It offers two daily 90-minute flights, although times are subject to changes and cancellations, depending on whether the airport is under mortar attack.
So awesome! I'm cracking up over here. Sounds like a SNL skit.
It's not like flying out of O'Hare, where takeoff times are subject to change 'depending on whether the airport is experiencing heavy snow and/or icing conditions'. It's so nonchalant - 'depending on whether the airport is under mortar attack'.
No worries, mate! Sit back, relax, get a bit of Vitamin B, and we'll be on our way in no-time, or not, but good luck to you today, sir.
It offers two daily 90-minute flights, although times are subject to changes and cancellations, depending on whether the airport is under mortar attack.
So awesome! I'm cracking up over here. Sounds like a SNL skit.
It's not like flying out of O'Hare, where takeoff times are subject to change 'depending on whether the airport is experiencing heavy snow and/or icing conditions'. It's so nonchalant - 'depending on whether the airport is under mortar attack'.
No worries, mate! Sit back, relax, get a bit of Vitamin B, and we'll be on our way in no-time, or not, but good luck to you today, sir.
You naysayers don't realize that Iraq is a rousing success since the goal is to destroy it, and we've more than accomplished that. Theocracy is good, too. Wait for elections. The mosque is ours. Easy peasy.
On to Iran...cough...cough. Did I say Iran? Maybe. Or maybe Syria.
Suckahhs!
You naysayers don't realize that Iraq is a rousing success since the goal is to destroy it, and we've more than accomplished that. Theocracy is good, too. Wait for elections. The mosque is ours. Easy peasy.
On to Iran...cough...cough. Did I say Iran? Maybe. Or maybe Syria.
Suckahhs!
For Bush the only way out of Iraq now is through Iran. Creating total chaos in the Middle East, one country at a time.
For Bush the only way out of Iraq now is through Iran. Creating total chaos in the Middle East, one country at a time.
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Democrats are as cowardly as the Marines in Fallujah. That's why they lose.
My original posts have made no mention of Marines. The concluding sentence is being added by the admin, who will probably deny my IP soon. Fascist lefties. Have fin for the next four years, intolerant moonbats.
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Democrats are as cowardly as the Marines in Fallujah. That's why they lose.
My original posts have made no mention of Marines. The concluding sentence is being added by the admin, who will probably deny my IP soon. Fascist lefties. Have fin for the next four years, intolerant moonbats.
The Values of the Right:
(a partial list)
win at any price
our god is better than yours
all power to Der Fuehrer
voter suppression
evangelism
science twisted for political purposes
justice if you can afford it
torture
all the news we think you need to know
know your place
anything for a buck
women are baby-makers and cookie-bakers
Correct. But the spineless Democratic party, and the withering Unions are doing what exactly to oppose this?
As I said earlier, all I ever see from you collectively is a lot of talk and no action. You've sat on your collective hands for the past half century believing that you were making "progress", while ignoring the reality that the right was taking over the government.
I believe nothing you say. Nothing. I believe what the GOP says because if they say it, they'll do it, regardless of consequences.
When you get leaders with backbone and verve, then maybe I'll reconsider. Until then, you're all a bunch of Lieberman's.
The Values of the Right:
(a partial list)
win at any price
our god is better than yours
all power to Der Fuehrer
voter suppression
evangelism
science twisted for political purposes
justice if you can afford it
torture
all the news we think you need to know
know your place
anything for a buck
women are baby-makers and cookie-bakers
Correct. But the spineless Democratic party, and the withering Unions are doing what exactly to oppose this?
As I said earlier, all I ever see from you collectively is a lot of talk and no action. You've sat on your collective hands for the past half century believing that you were making "progress", while ignoring the reality that the right was taking over the government.
I believe nothing you say. Nothing. I believe what the GOP says because if they say it, they'll do it, regardless of consequences.
When you get leaders with backbone and verve, then maybe I'll reconsider. Until then, you're all a bunch of Lieberman's.
This comment proves my point regarding the alteration of my posts by the site admin. Note the lack of a line regarding Marines:
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Walter Cronkite
Actually, I plan on enjoying it - I plan on savoring the site of Republican dismay when every non-evangelical, non-end-of-days Bush voter wakes up and realizes the guy is out of control and doesn't give a shit what the majority of Americans think.
Sounds to me like it's already happening. And yeah, I'm liking it.
Stinky | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:22 pm | #
This comment proves my point regarding the alteration of my posts by the site admin. Note the lack of a line regarding Marines:
Four more years. Actually, fifty months. That's a long time, moonbats...enjoy it.
Walter Cronkite
Actually, I plan on enjoying it - I plan on savoring the site of Republican dismay when every non-evangelical, non-end-of-days Bush voter wakes up and realizes the guy is out of control and doesn't give a shit what the majority of Americans think.
Sounds to me like it's already happening. And yeah, I'm liking it.
Stinky | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 3:22 pm | #
Every day, in every way, they just get dumber + dumber...
Every day, in every way, they just get dumber + dumber...
It's a trivial point given the gravity of the story, but did anyone else notice something odd about the photograph? As in, the two vehicles are directly facing each other (as you can see from the driver's side mirror of the yellow car).
If this is a highway, then security isn't the only problem there. They've got people driving both directions in the same freaking lane!
An apt metaphor for what we've done to Iraq, I should say.
It's a trivial point given the gravity of the story, but did anyone else notice something odd about the photograph? As in, the two vehicles are directly facing each other (as you can see from the driver's side mirror of the yellow car).
If this is a highway, then security isn't the only problem there. They've got people driving both directions in the same freaking lane!
An apt metaphor for what we've done to Iraq, I should say.
So let me get this straight. You think the GOP pulled shennanigans in their quest for power, but you stick with them because they "do what they say they'll do, right or wrong"? Is it logical to assume you agree with the "wrong" the GOP does, then? Spinelessness of the Democratic national leadership is a valid argument, but siding with a group simply because it's pigheaded and bulldozer-esque in its lust for power is a bit simple-minded itself.
But hey, whatever works for you...
So let me get this straight. You think the GOP pulled shennanigans in their quest for power, but you stick with them because they "do what they say they'll do, right or wrong"? Is it logical to assume you agree with the "wrong" the GOP does, then? Spinelessness of the Democratic national leadership is a valid argument, but siding with a group simply because it's pigheaded and bulldozer-esque in its lust for power is a bit simple-minded itself.
But hey, whatever works for you...
So you don't think Marines are cowards? I'm sure they appreciate it.
So you don't think Marines are cowards? I'm sure they appreciate it.
shorter pewlingade: we may be fascists, but we're consistent fascists!
-
Fielding Mellish
Wrong. Shorter powerade: you Democrats have brought this on yourselves through inaction, searching for justice in all the wrong places, and believing the myths of the media.
Reality is what you make it, and you've made your bed on a reality of lies.
Learn to live with it.
shorter pewlingade: we may be fascists, but we're consistent fascists!
-
Fielding Mellish
Wrong. Shorter powerade: you Democrats have brought this on yourselves through inaction, searching for justice in all the wrong places, and believing the myths of the media.
Reality is what you make it, and you've made your bed on a reality of lies.
Learn to live with it.
Reality is what you make it, and you've made your bed on a reality of lies
That has got to be the worst writing I've seen in a while.
Reality is what you make it, and you've made your bed on a reality of lies
That has got to be the worst writing I've seen in a while.
Did I tell you I roll my shit into balls and eat it like chocolate?
Did I tell you I roll my shit into balls and eat it like chocolate?
Spinelessness of the Democratic national leadership is a valid argument, but siding with a group simply because it's pigheaded and bulldozer-esque in its lust for power is a bit simple-minded itself.
Not just spinelessness, but a complete abdication of the application of justice. The Democrats have enabled GOP malfeasance.
I do not believe the myths, and I know that politics is a game of power, and power is gained through any means necessary. That's the history of civilization.
But you're dreaming if you think the Democrats are opposition. And if they're going to be GOP Lite, I might as well be GOP Real.
Spinelessness of the Democratic national leadership is a valid argument, but siding with a group simply because it's pigheaded and bulldozer-esque in its lust for power is a bit simple-minded itself.
Not just spinelessness, but a complete abdication of the application of justice. The Democrats have enabled GOP malfeasance.
I do not believe the myths, and I know that politics is a game of power, and power is gained through any means necessary. That's the history of civilization.
But you're dreaming if you think the Democrats are opposition. And if they're going to be GOP Lite, I might as well be GOP Real.
we're going to have to maintain at least 100,000 troops in Iraq for the next few years.
McCain sez twenty.
At least when he doesn't have Chimpy's arm up his ass.
we're going to have to maintain at least 100,000 troops in Iraq for the next few years.
McCain sez twenty.
At least when he doesn't have Chimpy's arm up his ass.
I might as well be GOP Real.
after all, there aren't any real issues or policies that you have a stake in, as long as you can do your little victory dance in the end zone.
stupid asswipe.
I might as well be GOP Real.
after all, there aren't any real issues or policies that you have a stake in, as long as you can do your little victory dance in the end zone.
stupid asswipe.
Actually, I don't believe anything I say either.
I am a tool for the Republicans. I lick their assholes on command.
Actually, I don't believe anything I say either.
I am a tool for the Republicans. I lick their assholes on command.
Not
Enough
Troops
In
The
Wrong
Places
With
The
Wrong
Equipment
And
The
Wrong
Commanders.
This is a symptom. It may also be the absolute definition of why all modern military theory dictates that the single most important element of victory is logistics and supply.
Not
Enough
Troops
In
The
Wrong
Places
With
The
Wrong
Equipment
And
The
Wrong
Commanders.
This is a symptom. It may also be the absolute definition of why all modern military theory dictates that the single most important element of victory is logistics and supply.
Actually, I plan on enjoying it - I plan on savoring the site of Republican dismay when every non-evangelical, non-end-of-days Bush voter wakes up and realizes the guy is out of control and doesn't give a shit what the majority of Americans think.
Get a grip. You better get used to have someone named Bush as President. It's likely to be decades before reform takes hold. Your man Kerry was the last gasp for Democrats. And now you're sitting on your rear end as Ohio gets certified.
Sweet.
I hope you have some land to farm with, because you are going to need it.
Actually, I plan on enjoying it - I plan on savoring the site of Republican dismay when every non-evangelical, non-end-of-days Bush voter wakes up and realizes the guy is out of control and doesn't give a shit what the majority of Americans think.
Get a grip. You better get used to have someone named Bush as President. It's likely to be decades before reform takes hold. Your man Kerry was the last gasp for Democrats. And now you're sitting on your rear end as Ohio gets certified.
Sweet.
I hope you have some land to farm with, because you are going to need it.
You are pathetic and weak. You're all talk. That's why I support the GOP. They walk the talk, right or wrong, at least they stand up for what they believe in.
Well, I guess that's one less Yankee fan.
You are pathetic and weak. You're all talk. That's why I support the GOP. They walk the talk, right or wrong, at least they stand up for what they believe in.
Well, I guess that's one less Yankee fan.
I play in pig shit everyday. I use it for shampoo.
I play in pig shit everyday. I use it for shampoo.
On to Iran...cough...cough. Did I say Iran? Maybe. Or maybe Syria.
or maybr abu dhabi. after all, there's a dangerous power vacuum there.
On to Iran...cough...cough. Did I say Iran? Maybe. Or maybe Syria.
or maybr abu dhabi. after all, there's a dangerous power vacuum there.
That has got to be the worst writing I've seen in a while.
rorschach
Somebody should keep an archive of these gems. There was one about a "nose full of snot waiting to be smacked" a couple of weeks ago that literally had my sides hurting.
New shorter purtyade: A guy that promises to shoot you in the face and actually does it is much better than a guy that promises to give you six free CDs and can only give you four.
-
That has got to be the worst writing I've seen in a while.
rorschach
Somebody should keep an archive of these gems. There was one about a "nose full of snot waiting to be smacked" a couple of weeks ago that literally had my sides hurting.
New shorter purtyade: A guy that promises to shoot you in the face and actually does it is much better than a guy that promises to give you six free CDs and can only give you four.
-
The PNAC plan does not include an "exit strategy" for Iraq, because they have no intention of leaving.
Part of the point of the invasion was to establish a permanent military presence in the region.
The PNAC plan does not include an "exit strategy" for Iraq, because they have no intention of leaving.
Part of the point of the invasion was to establish a permanent military presence in the region.
stupid asswipe.
You're the "stupid" one here. You believe the myths of our time. You sit around, bloviate, and think that's change for the better.
I didn't see you out there contesting the theft of the election. But then again, you probably think everyone plays fair.
Fiddle Nero, fiddle.
stupid asswipe.
You're the "stupid" one here. You believe the myths of our time. You sit around, bloviate, and think that's change for the better.
I didn't see you out there contesting the theft of the election. But then again, you probably think everyone plays fair.
Fiddle Nero, fiddle.
I think Cheney is using the war as cover for stealing Iraqi oil. I'd sure hate to see all that oil made unusable for example, radioactive.
I think Cheney is using the war as cover for stealing Iraqi oil. I'd sure hate to see all that oil made unusable for example, radioactive.
powerade,
Oh, don't get me wrong. I basically agree with the concept of Democrats being just shy of Republican Lite and seemingly heading that way. However, I fail to see why I should throw my chips in with the Republicans, who's modern platform is the antithesis of ever progressive belief I hold dear. Frankly, I'd rather stick to my ideals than sell my soul just to get with the "winning team". Rather go down on my feet than on my knees, to paraphrase the great philosopher-poet Lemmy Kilmister. You are, of course, free do whatever feels right.
Frankly, I think both major parties are far too beholden to big monied interests and neither seem to care about much beyond consolidating power and getting votes, the actual people of the country aside. Unfortunately, the route taken by most third parties, Green and Libertarian, seems unproductive to me. In short, they're aiming too high. Both should've worked for solid blocs in local politics, then state politics and then go for the Big Seat, rather than shoot their wad and, in both cases, wreck their credibility with the average voter.
If there's gonna be any change in the way politics works in this country, it's gonna have to come from the bottom up. The New Party has the right idea, I think: start local then work up, and work with people when you can find common ground rather than blindly sticking to idiotic partisanship.
Course, this is America and we want it NOW!!! DAMMIT!!! whatever it is. I wonder if we spend too much time concentrating on the way the game is played rather than the reasons why it's played.
powerade,
Oh, don't get me wrong. I basically agree with the concept of Democrats being just shy of Republican Lite and seemingly heading that way. However, I fail to see why I should throw my chips in with the Republicans, who's modern platform is the antithesis of ever progressive belief I hold dear. Frankly, I'd rather stick to my ideals than sell my soul just to get with the "winning team". Rather go down on my feet than on my knees, to paraphrase the great philosopher-poet Lemmy Kilmister. You are, of course, free do whatever feels right.
Frankly, I think both major parties are far too beholden to big monied interests and neither seem to care about much beyond consolidating power and getting votes, the actual people of the country aside. Unfortunately, the route taken by most third parties, Green and Libertarian, seems unproductive to me. In short, they're aiming too high. Both should've worked for solid blocs in local politics, then state politics and then go for the Big Seat, rather than shoot their wad and, in both cases, wreck their credibility with the average voter.
If there's gonna be any change in the way politics works in this country, it's gonna have to come from the bottom up. The New Party has the right idea, I think: start local then work up, and work with people when you can find common ground rather than blindly sticking to idiotic partisanship.
Course, this is America and we want it NOW!!! DAMMIT!!! whatever it is. I wonder if we spend too much time concentrating on the way the game is played rather than the reasons why it's played.
Back on topic:
Maximum range on the kinds of mortars involved in these attacks would be about 6 kilometers.
With all of our tactical intelligence assets and a good deal of our strategic intelligence assets focused on Iraq, especially the "hot spots" like the road under discussion, why can't we prevent these attacks?
Is it a matter of making sure there's a market for a product?
Just spitballing here. I'm sure our virtuous military-industrial complex wouldn't jeopardize soldiers' lives in the name of profits. Ooops.
-
Back on topic:
Maximum range on the kinds of mortars involved in these attacks would be about 6 kilometers.
With all of our tactical intelligence assets and a good deal of our strategic intelligence assets focused on Iraq, especially the "hot spots" like the road under discussion, why can't we prevent these attacks?
Is it a matter of making sure there's a market for a product?
Just spitballing here. I'm sure our virtuous military-industrial complex wouldn't jeopardize soldiers' lives in the name of profits. Ooops.
-
The PNAC plan does not include an "exit strategy" for Iraq, because they have no intention of leaving.
Part of the point of the invasion was to establish a permanent military presence in the region.
Gee, do you think so? Wow. I'm so glad you figured this out.
The PNAC plan does not include an "exit strategy" for Iraq, because they have no intention of leaving.
Part of the point of the invasion was to establish a permanent military presence in the region.
Gee, do you think so? Wow. I'm so glad you figured this out.
Green and Libertarian, seems unproductive to me. In short, they're aiming too high. Both should've worked for solid blocs in local politics, then state politics and then go for the Big Seat, rather than shoot their wad and, in both cases, wreck their credibility with the average voter.
If there's gonna be any change in the way politics works in this country, it's gonna have to come from the bottom up. The New Party has the right idea, I think: start local then work up, and work with people when you can find common ground rather than blindly sticking to idiotic partisanship.
I find myself in agreement with this. Where can I find more on the New Party?
Green and Libertarian, seems unproductive to me. In short, they're aiming too high. Both should've worked for solid blocs in local politics, then state politics and then go for the Big Seat, rather than shoot their wad and, in both cases, wreck their credibility with the average voter.
If there's gonna be any change in the way politics works in this country, it's gonna have to come from the bottom up. The New Party has the right idea, I think: start local then work up, and work with people when you can find common ground rather than blindly sticking to idiotic partisanship.
I find myself in agreement with this. Where can I find more on the New Party?
Roddy,
From way up-thread you talked about Washington and our own guerilla war, and I agree with you -- I once wrote a piece trying to ape the new media covering the Tea Party and the Boston Massacre -- but the Administration hasn't admitted that they have such a problem. They just have scattered insurgents (sounds so much better than guerillas or freedom fighters, don'tcha know). Until they do, and they probably never will, they will never be able to deal with them.
Roddy,
From way up-thread you talked about Washington and our own guerilla war, and I agree with you -- I once wrote a piece trying to ape the new media covering the Tea Party and the Boston Massacre -- but the Administration hasn't admitted that they have such a problem. They just have scattered insurgents (sounds so much better than guerillas or freedom fighters, don'tcha know). Until they do, and they probably never will, they will never be able to deal with them.
What is that foul screeching sound polluting the threads?
It sounds like the trolls doubt the veracity of their Boy King's "victory" so they must lash out against rational thought and simple human decency at every opportunity.
Too bad for them, and for poor Nero, that thanks to his friends at the e-voting companies, now he'll never be a legitimate President.
What is that foul screeching sound polluting the threads?
It sounds like the trolls doubt the veracity of their Boy King's "victory" so they must lash out against rational thought and simple human decency at every opportunity.
Too bad for them, and for poor Nero, that thanks to his friends at the e-voting companies, now he'll never be a legitimate President.
That has got to be the worst writing I've seen in a while.
Wh do trolls sound like parodies of B-movie villains?
That has got to be the worst writing I've seen in a while.
Wh do trolls sound like parodies of B-movie villains?
that thanks to his friends at the e-voting companies, now he'll never be a legitimate President.
But why isn't anyone doing anything about it? Where is the opposition outrage and demand for justice?
that thanks to his friends at the e-voting companies, now he'll never be a legitimate President.
But why isn't anyone doing anything about it? Where is the opposition outrage and demand for justice?
Those fucking brown people.
It's starting to look like we may just have to nuke them into democracy.
Those fucking brown people.
It's starting to look like we may just have to nuke them into democracy.
I think powerade is correct, Dems are weak weak. Principle dont mean shit w/oo power. Repubs take every atvantage, but the dems just sit there. Remember when Richardson talked about pulling a Delay? Why didnt he? Every dem governor should have order redistricting. Then Maybe Delay might have backed down. But no, they just complained. Complaining is for the weak. Like in the debates-it was obvious to everybody that Bush was wiered up for the first one. But instead of complaining and demanding loudly that Bush tell everybody what was on his back- the dmes wimped out, hoping fot the media to take over.
Same with that senile dude from KY. He did not even show up for the debate, and cheated-reading from a script, and Mongiorno let him get away with it, instead of saying,'get your ass over to Kentucky and debate like a real man'. The reds would have loved that shit. Dems need to play hardball intead of pussyball. That is why I liked both Clark and Dean, when anybody tried to get away with anything, he called them on their bullshit.
I think powerade is correct, Dems are weak weak. Principle dont mean shit w/oo power. Repubs take every atvantage, but the dems just sit there. Remember when Richardson talked about pulling a Delay? Why didnt he? Every dem governor should have order redistricting. Then Maybe Delay might have backed down. But no, they just complained. Complaining is for the weak. Like in the debates-it was obvious to everybody that Bush was wiered up for the first one. But instead of complaining and demanding loudly that Bush tell everybody what was on his back- the dmes wimped out, hoping fot the media to take over.
Same with that senile dude from KY. He did not even show up for the debate, and cheated-reading from a script, and Mongiorno let him get away with it, instead of saying,'get your ass over to Kentucky and debate like a real man'. The reds would have loved that shit. Dems need to play hardball intead of pussyball. That is why I liked both Clark and Dean, when anybody tried to get away with anything, he called them on their bullshit.
Wh do trolls sound like parodies of B-movie villains?
Perhaps he's been breathing too deeply--and studies have shown, God is poisonous.
Wh do trolls sound like parodies of B-movie villains?
Perhaps he's been breathing too deeply--and studies have shown, God is poisonous.
There never were enough troops in Iraq even before the revolt began. The US has never set its strategic goals; probably, because it costs to much in dollars and manpower. Sy Hersh said no one can tell Bush that the war cannot be won. He is a true believer in the war. A classic example of magical thinking.
Even the most obnoxious troll has a point when denigrating the Democrats. To date, at best, the opposition has been enablers of the radical GOP take over; “Working together” as Tom Daschle like to say or, at worst, turn coats like Zell Miller.
The voices in the blog wilderness will be remembered when the inevitable catastrophe hits: the dollar crashing, bursting of the housing bubble, the invasion of Iran, the shelling of Seoul or the inevitable pull out of Iraq. “We told you so!”
There never were enough troops in Iraq even before the revolt began. The US has never set its strategic goals; probably, because it costs to much in dollars and manpower. Sy Hersh said no one can tell Bush that the war cannot be won. He is a true believer in the war. A classic example of magical thinking.
Even the most obnoxious troll has a point when denigrating the Democrats. To date, at best, the opposition has been enablers of the radical GOP take over; “Working together” as Tom Daschle like to say or, at worst, turn coats like Zell Miller.
The voices in the blog wilderness will be remembered when the inevitable catastrophe hits: the dollar crashing, bursting of the housing bubble, the invasion of Iran, the shelling of Seoul or the inevitable pull out of Iraq. “We told you so!”
OT:
ACTION ALERT! Operation: Red Illumination
Read the plan, then
Join the Resistance
OT:
ACTION ALERT! Operation: Red Illumination
Read the plan, then
Join the Resistance
Wh do trolls sound like parodies of B-movie villains?
Thersites
They tend to remind me of Dr. Orpheus, a character on The Venture Brothers who makes the most mundane statements in an orotund manner while desperately seeking a "nemesis" to validate his existence. Fun show for adults who remember the old Johnny Quest cartoons.
-
Wh do trolls sound like parodies of B-movie villains?
Thersites
They tend to remind me of Dr. Orpheus, a character on The Venture Brothers who makes the most mundane statements in an orotund manner while desperately seeking a "nemesis" to validate his existence. Fun show for adults who remember the old Johnny Quest cartoons.
-
That is why I liked both Clark and Dean, when anybody tried to get away with anything, he called them on their bullshit.
These two men have great potential, and should be leading the party. If they did I might be interested. But instead I see it being more Lieberman-esque.
Opposition is futile when it seeks to compromise with the extremes in power.
That is why I liked both Clark and Dean, when anybody tried to get away with anything, he called them on their bullshit.
These two men have great potential, and should be leading the party. If they did I might be interested. But instead I see it being more Lieberman-esque.
Opposition is futile when it seeks to compromise with the extremes in power.
www.newparty.org
For some reason, the site's pretty damn sparse at the current moment. There's some recent victories - mostly, as I said, in local politics, but again, every oak from an acorn - and they're pretty active in the battle for a Living Wage. They've also taken a lot of heat - along with the Greens, Labor and Populist parties - for "wanting to destroy business", but this just isn't true. They're all about business that play fair by the rules, the consumers and the employees, but they're also all about going after companies (or local governments) that don't. Jim Hightower's awfully fond of 'em, as is Molly Ivins.
Obviously, they're a progressive liberal-minded organization primarily concerned with labor and public health issues, but as with the Democrats or Greens, they're willing to work with Republicans and Libertarians for common goals. It's all about remembering who this country's for: we, the people.
www.newparty.org
For some reason, the site's pretty damn sparse at the current moment. There's some recent victories - mostly, as I said, in local politics, but again, every oak from an acorn - and they're pretty active in the battle for a Living Wage. They've also taken a lot of heat - along with the Greens, Labor and Populist parties - for "wanting to destroy business", but this just isn't true. They're all about business that play fair by the rules, the consumers and the employees, but they're also all about going after companies (or local governments) that don't. Jim Hightower's awfully fond of 'em, as is Molly Ivins.
Obviously, they're a progressive liberal-minded organization primarily concerned with labor and public health issues, but as with the Democrats or Greens, they're willing to work with Republicans and Libertarians for common goals. It's all about remembering who this country's for: we, the people.
So does this mean plastic turkee in the airport again this year?
I was watching Cspan a little bit ago, it was pathetic listening to republican callers who said they were shocked! shocked, I tell you to see what the republican congress was getting up to so soon after the election.
What the fuck did they think was going to happen?
fourlegsgood
a friend of mine's BF voted for aWol, on the basis of "sure he's a fuckup, but at least I know he's a fuckup. don't want to take a chance on JFK"
Democrats are as cowardly as the Marines in Fallujah. That's why they lose.
Walter Cronkite
takes a lot of courage to spew that from your mom's basement. want me to call the recruiters office for you? I'll be sure to tell them not to worry during the physical, that orange residue on your tiny member is from the cheetos from when you sneak a pair of your mom's panties on one of her "heavy flow" days
So does this mean plastic turkee in the airport again this year?
I was watching Cspan a little bit ago, it was pathetic listening to republican callers who said they were shocked! shocked, I tell you to see what the republican congress was getting up to so soon after the election.
What the fuck did they think was going to happen?
fourlegsgood
a friend of mine's BF voted for aWol, on the basis of "sure he's a fuckup, but at least I know he's a fuckup. don't want to take a chance on JFK"
Democrats are as cowardly as the Marines in Fallujah. That's why they lose.
Walter Cronkite
takes a lot of courage to spew that from your mom's basement. want me to call the recruiters office for you? I'll be sure to tell them not to worry during the physical, that orange residue on your tiny member is from the cheetos from when you sneak a pair of your mom's panties on one of her "heavy flow" days
Terribly sorry...
ACTION ALERT! Operation Red Illumination
Got the link wrong above... this should be correct
Terribly sorry...
ACTION ALERT! Operation Red Illumination
Got the link wrong above... this should be correct
I have come to the conclusion that dems love being in the minority. People keep on asking what can hte dems do.
1) redistrict all the moderate repubs out of power
2) In the House and Senate, dems should emmediately start running commercials against all moderates
3) Reid and Byrd should get together and determin how to obstruct everyting. That is how the repubs basically got into power
4) Remind the public everyday until '06 that repubs control all three branches of govt
5) Fillebuster any and all of Bush's nominees. During the hearing remind the public of what Goss said, but then what he did when he went to the CIA. They will probably get through anyway, but make it as painfull as possible.
6) Demonize everyplan that the repubs propose as radical. Make the moderates sweat everythime they vote.
7)split the base by making speeches on the floor about how they use christians to get elected but never deliver
create controvercy whenever possible-this way the media will pay attention to you.
9) Never give teh bush credit for anything. If Osama is caught, say- the soldiers did an excellent job, despite Bush's incompetence.
I have come to the conclusion that dems love being in the minority. People keep on asking what can hte dems do.
1) redistrict all the moderate repubs out of power
2) In the House and Senate, dems should emmediately start running commercials against all moderates
3) Reid and Byrd should get together and determin how to obstruct everyting. That is how the repubs basically got into power
4) Remind the public everyday until '06 that repubs control all three branches of govt
5) Fillebuster any and all of Bush's nominees. During the hearing remind the public of what Goss said, but then what he did when he went to the CIA. They will probably get through anyway, but make it as painfull as possible.
6) Demonize everyplan that the repubs propose as radical. Make the moderates sweat everythime they vote.
7)split the base by making speeches on the floor about how they use christians to get elected but never deliver
create controvercy whenever possible-this way the media will pay attention to you.
9) Never give teh bush credit for anything. If Osama is caught, say- the soldiers did an excellent job, despite Bush's incompetence.
C-Span2 - Boxer bringing to the Senate the objection to the 'Weldon Clause' - she's about to hold up the Senate. As she should.
Dick Durbin has just revealed that there's another cute trick in the Omnibus Bill, allowing at will, any Congressional geek to pull IRS records, more or less at will, plus lots more.
C-Span2 - Boxer bringing to the Senate the objection to the 'Weldon Clause' - she's about to hold up the Senate. As she should.
Dick Durbin has just revealed that there's another cute trick in the Omnibus Bill, allowing at will, any Congressional geek to pull IRS records, more or less at will, plus lots more.
This is hte way the repubs came ot power-the way that an oppostion acts. What is this "getting along" bullshit? No compromise on anything.
This is hte way the repubs came ot power-the way that an oppostion acts. What is this "getting along" bullshit? No compromise on anything.
What I can't understand is how Bush 1 can go on supporting Junior. I mean, at least Bush 1 served in world war 2. He was head of the CIA for God's sake. Has he seen what chimpy is doing to that institution?
GHWB was DCI for less than a year. That was the last of what he viewed as four shit-shoveling jobs he held in rapid succession (UN ambassador/RNC chairman/China envoy/DCI), sucking at the asses of Nixon and Ford in a desperate attempt to set himself up to run for President.
Where he got the idea that he was qualified to be President in 1980 remains a mystery. He had served two terms in the House, lost two campaigns for the Senate, and otherwise had never held elective office, giving him just about the weakest resume of any President of the last fifty years or so.
In fact, GHWB's political resume when he rode Reagan's coattails into the Vice-Presidency in 1980 was weaker than Chimpy's was in 2000.
Kitty Kelley has the goods on GHWB. He's a human incarnation of J.R. "BoB" Dobbs; clueless and benign but well-connected. Sort of a better-looking version of Forrest Gump.
That is, unless you buy the theory that he was essentially working undercover for the CIA his entire career. Although I suppose he could have been the CIA's token Gump.
I comforted myself when Chimpy was first elected with the assurance that surely the old man wouldn't let him fuck up too badly.
Boy, was I wrong.
What I can't understand is how Bush 1 can go on supporting Junior. I mean, at least Bush 1 served in world war 2. He was head of the CIA for God's sake. Has he seen what chimpy is doing to that institution?
GHWB was DCI for less than a year. That was the last of what he viewed as four shit-shoveling jobs he held in rapid succession (UN ambassador/RNC chairman/China envoy/DCI), sucking at the asses of Nixon and Ford in a desperate attempt to set himself up to run for President.
Where he got the idea that he was qualified to be President in 1980 remains a mystery. He had served two terms in the House, lost two campaigns for the Senate, and otherwise had never held elective office, giving him just about the weakest resume of any President of the last fifty years or so.
In fact, GHWB's political resume when he rode Reagan's coattails into the Vice-Presidency in 1980 was weaker than Chimpy's was in 2000.
Kitty Kelley has the goods on GHWB. He's a human incarnation of J.R. "BoB" Dobbs; clueless and benign but well-connected. Sort of a better-looking version of Forrest Gump.
That is, unless you buy the theory that he was essentially working undercover for the CIA his entire career. Although I suppose he could have been the CIA's token Gump.
I comforted myself when Chimpy was first elected with the assurance that surely the old man wouldn't let him fuck up too badly.
Boy, was I wrong.
hey've also taken a lot of heat - along with the Greens, Labor and Populist parties - for "wanting to destroy business", but this just isn't true.
What is needed is viral adoption of an opposition philosophy that can get around the large media character killing machine.
The Democrats could do this, but only if they purge the GOP Lite leadership which they are not likely to do.
hey've also taken a lot of heat - along with the Greens, Labor and Populist parties - for "wanting to destroy business", but this just isn't true.
What is needed is viral adoption of an opposition philosophy that can get around the large media character killing machine.
The Democrats could do this, but only if they purge the GOP Lite leadership which they are not likely to do.
nbelievable. On C-span 2 right now, Sen. Dick Durbin and the other Dems are having fits over a little quirk added to the Treasury Appropriations bill, sec 222. It would give members of congress and their staffs total access to individual income tax returns, which could then be disseminated in any way, with no restrictions and no penalties.
Wanna know about someone running against you next election? How about the people who contributed to your opponent? No problem.
This was a last minute addition the Dems didn't even know about until a few hours ago.
These Republican bastards need a good bitch slapping. NOW.
Ok, GWPDA beat me too this, but I'm so angry about this I'm adding it too.
Tow
nbelievable. On C-span 2 right now, Sen. Dick Durbin and the other Dems are having fits over a little quirk added to the Treasury Appropriations bill, sec 222. It would give members of congress and their staffs total access to individual income tax returns, which could then be disseminated in any way, with no restrictions and no penalties.
Wanna know about someone running against you next election? How about the people who contributed to your opponent? No problem.
This was a last minute addition the Dems didn't even know about until a few hours ago.
These Republican bastards need a good bitch slapping. NOW.
Ok, GWPDA beat me too this, but I'm so angry about this I'm adding it too.
Tow
Not to worry! There are servicemen replacements coming to Iraq!
The AP this morning has reported that Walter Reed Army Medical Center is rehabilitating amputees so that they can return to the battlefield!
Lt. Col. Jeff Gambel, clinical chief of the amputee clinic said optimistically that "We're finding in each subsequent conflicts, there is an increased percentage of upper-extremity amputees."
He may mean that, because they only lost an arm or two, they can be rehabilitated so that they can drive tanks.
(I posted this on another site, and someone thought it read like an Onion bit - but you can look it up in Google)
Incidently, the story also adds that amputations account for 2.4 percent of all wounded in action in Iraq, TWICE the rate of World Wars I and II.
Insanity!
Not to worry! There are servicemen replacements coming to Iraq!
The AP this morning has reported that Walter Reed Army Medical Center is rehabilitating amputees so that they can return to the battlefield!
Lt. Col. Jeff Gambel, clinical chief of the amputee clinic said optimistically that "We're finding in each subsequent conflicts, there is an increased percentage of upper-extremity amputees."
He may mean that, because they only lost an arm or two, they can be rehabilitated so that they can drive tanks.
(I posted this on another site, and someone thought it read like an Onion bit - but you can look it up in Google)
Incidently, the story also adds that amputations account for 2.4 percent of all wounded in action in Iraq, TWICE the rate of World Wars I and II.
Insanity!
I have come to the conclusion that dems love being in the minority. People keep on asking what can hte dems do.
1) redistrict all the moderate repubs out of power
2) In the House and Senate, dems should emmediately start running commercials against all moderates
3) Reid and Byrd should get together and determin how to obstruct everyting. That is how the repubs basically got into power
4) Remind the public everyday until '06 that repubs control all three branches of govt
5) Fillebuster any and all of Bush's nominees. During the hearing remind the public of what Goss said, but then what he did when he went to the CIA. They will probably get through anyway, but make it as painfull as possible.
6) Demonize everyplan that the repubs propose as radical. Make the moderates sweat everythime they vote.
7)split the base by making speeches on the floor about how they use christians to get elected but never deliver
create controvercy whenever possible-this way the media will pay attention to you.
9) Never give teh bush credit for anything. If Osama is caught, say- the soldiers did an excellent job, despite Bush's incompetence.
I really like what you have listed. I'd be shocked if this happens though. I could see Dean and Clark doing it, but I think the bulk of the Dem leadership is soft and squishy.
I have come to the conclusion that dems love being in the minority. People keep on asking what can hte dems do.
1) redistrict all the moderate repubs out of power
2) In the House and Senate, dems should emmediately start running commercials against all moderates
3) Reid and Byrd should get together and determin how to obstruct everyting. That is how the repubs basically got into power
4) Remind the public everyday until '06 that repubs control all three branches of govt
5) Fillebuster any and all of Bush's nominees. During the hearing remind the public of what Goss said, but then what he did when he went to the CIA. They will probably get through anyway, but make it as painfull as possible.
6) Demonize everyplan that the repubs propose as radical. Make the moderates sweat everythime they vote.
7)split the base by making speeches on the floor about how they use christians to get elected but never deliver
create controvercy whenever possible-this way the media will pay attention to you.
9) Never give teh bush credit for anything. If Osama is caught, say- the soldiers did an excellent job, despite Bush's incompetence.
I really like what you have listed. I'd be shocked if this happens though. I could see Dean and Clark doing it, but I think the bulk of the Dem leadership is soft and squishy.
Is this an opportunity for the next Survivor series? Or the Amazing Race? (or whatever the hell that CBS show is called)
Is this an opportunity for the next Survivor series? Or the Amazing Race? (or whatever the hell that CBS show is called)
Gee, you don't suppose it's because the MERCS are making MONEY doing the transport?
Couldn't be so the rightwing MERCS can make some more Fuck-Up-America bucks, could it?
--
Gee, you don't suppose it's because the MERCS are making MONEY doing the transport?
Couldn't be so the rightwing MERCS can make some more Fuck-Up-America bucks, could it?
--
Where he got the idea that he was qualified to be President in 1980 remains a mystery. He had served two terms in the House, lost two campaigns for the Senate, and otherwise had never held elective office, giving him just about the weakest resume of any President of the last fifty years or so.
-snip-
That is, unless you buy the theory that he was essentially working undercover for the CIA his entire career.
Maybe you answered your own question.
"the pnac plan does not include an exit strategy."
there's never an exit strategy, in fact "exit strategy" is not even a real military concept. it is just a term that was made up during the post vietnam excuse making period.
Where he got the idea that he was qualified to be President in 1980 remains a mystery. He had served two terms in the House, lost two campaigns for the Senate, and otherwise had never held elective office, giving him just about the weakest resume of any President of the last fifty years or so.
-snip-
That is, unless you buy the theory that he was essentially working undercover for the CIA his entire career.
Maybe you answered your own question.
"the pnac plan does not include an exit strategy."
there's never an exit strategy, in fact "exit strategy" is not even a real military concept. it is just a term that was made up during the post vietnam excuse making period.
theodoric,
What is not to understand about BUSH 1?
It is all about power. Dems dont seem to get it. Why do you think repubs, after 20 years about bitching over illegal immigration have dropped it as an issue. they saw the demographics, and adjusted their strategy.
theodoric,
What is not to understand about BUSH 1?
It is all about power. Dems dont seem to get it. Why do you think repubs, after 20 years about bitching over illegal immigration have dropped it as an issue. they saw the demographics, and adjusted their strategy.
TURN ON CSPAN 2.
NOW.
Democrat Senators with STONES on the floor! fighting this 3000 page midnight joke of an omnibus appropriations bill!
IRS gives away your tax info?!
HMO's can refuse abortion to ANY woman for ANY reason?!
there is some seriously F'd up CRAP in this monster!
-Librarian on Fire
TURN ON CSPAN 2.
NOW.
Democrat Senators with STONES on the floor! fighting this 3000 page midnight joke of an omnibus appropriations bill!
IRS gives away your tax info?!
HMO's can refuse abortion to ANY woman for ANY reason?!
there is some seriously F'd up CRAP in this monster!
-Librarian on Fire
"Having seen the light, I can only hope that they join us in '06 to make some needed adjustments."
"Ba-dum-bump. That's KEN, ladies and gentlemen, he'll be in the Green Room until March 31st. Let's give him a big hand! Funny guy, he's a funny guy..."
--
"Having seen the light, I can only hope that they join us in '06 to make some needed adjustments."
"Ba-dum-bump. That's KEN, ladies and gentlemen, he'll be in the Green Room until March 31st. Let's give him a big hand! Funny guy, he's a funny guy..."
--
Anyone know why I can't comment on haloscan using a proxy? Do I have to open a port or something?
Anyone know why I can't comment on haloscan using a proxy? Do I have to open a port or something?
I don't get it- I'm a Libertarian, and it seem as if I am more radical that these wimpy dems. I know many Libertarians liked Dean and Clark just becaused they seemed on fire, and unwilling to back down. It reminded me of Newt when the repubs were taking over power in DC
I don't get it- I'm a Libertarian, and it seem as if I am more radical that these wimpy dems. I know many Libertarians liked Dean and Clark just becaused they seemed on fire, and unwilling to back down. It reminded me of Newt when the repubs were taking over power in DC
They're tanking. Senator said they will allow the anti-choice amendment to go through as long as the repukes "promise" to hold a full hearing in a few months.
That'll happen. not
Shit.
Fuck.
They're tanking. Senator said they will allow the anti-choice amendment to go through as long as the repukes "promise" to hold a full hearing in a few months.
That'll happen. not
Shit.
Fuck.
20 years about bitching over illegal immigration have dropped it as an issue
um, maybe so they could send the Texas National Guard to Iraq?
20 years about bitching over illegal immigration have dropped it as an issue
um, maybe so they could send the Texas National Guard to Iraq?
Why does all this remind me of Bernard Fall's Street Without Joy?
Why does all this remind me of Bernard Fall's Street Without Joy?
and props to Senators Grassley (R-Iowa) and McCain who are also there bitching.
Atrios, where are you?
-L.
and props to Senators Grassley (R-Iowa) and McCain who are also there bitching.
Atrios, where are you?
-L.
"Democrats didn't lose the election because they were tagged as obstructionists... They lost because they got out-muscled in Ohio, Florida, South Dakota, and all of those southern states where they lost Senate seats."
Thanks for calling and sharing, Live Free, but this also is utter BULLSHIT.
The Dems won the election by landslide, but someone forgot to tell Mr. Diebold, and all the vote fraud election officials.
.
"Democrats didn't lose the election because they were tagged as obstructionists... They lost because they got out-muscled in Ohio, Florida, South Dakota, and all of those southern states where they lost Senate seats."
Thanks for calling and sharing, Live Free, but this also is utter BULLSHIT.
The Dems won the election by landslide, but someone forgot to tell Mr. Diebold, and all the vote fraud election officials.
.
The dems just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And what was the deal with Kerry conceding w/o allt he votes counted. If the situation was reversed, do you think the Bush would concede? Or charge that there was some vote manipulation scandal?
The dems just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And what was the deal with Kerry conceding w/o allt he votes counted. If the situation was reversed, do you think the Bush would concede? Or charge that there was some vote manipulation scandal?
"The insurgents are just big cheaters.
NTodd "
I had to repeat that one.
And as for Bush and his chat on free-trade, I thought it was hilarious how all the radio yackers kept talking about his TEN HOUR FLIGHT to Chile. Like this was some ordeal of mythic proportions, and we owe him so much that he was willing to attend that summit for us.
I hate the media as much as Bush, frankly.
"The insurgents are just big cheaters.
NTodd "
I had to repeat that one.
And as for Bush and his chat on free-trade, I thought it was hilarious how all the radio yackers kept talking about his TEN HOUR FLIGHT to Chile. Like this was some ordeal of mythic proportions, and we owe him so much that he was willing to attend that summit for us.
I hate the media as much as Bush, frankly.
also Stevens (R) of Alaska says they will take it out?
McCain is flippin out...
-L.
also Stevens (R) of Alaska says they will take it out?
McCain is flippin out...
-L.
It reminded me of Newt when the repubs were taking over power in DC
oh, now THERE's a role model.
It reminded me of Newt when the repubs were taking over power in DC
oh, now THERE's a role model.
What is needed is viral adoption of an opposition philosophy that can get around the large media character killing machine.
The Democrats could do this, but only if they purge the GOP Lite leadership which they are not likely to do.
powerade
If this is a view that you truly hold then you could have started out by expressing yourself this way. For some reason, you didn't have the integrity to do so.
Instead, you chose to muck up multiple threads with this kind of shit:
Typical Democrat. Uncaring. Uninformed. Bigoted.
That is why you are the minority, you have no values.
11.20.04 - 12:56 pm |
BTW, I'm glad Ken Starr made it legal to arrest Democrats. It'll be fun watching the fat cats be led off to Leavenworth.
11.20.04 - 1:00 pm |
The Democratic Party.
A group of failed losers who will all be in prison by 2008.
11.20.04 - 1:43 pm |
Did you really think we'd all be so alarmed at the prospect of losing your powerful intellectual talents that we'd rush to implement your reforms? Oh, that's right - you didn't have any that amounted to anything more than insubstantial bitching.
If you've got some constructive suggestions or useful information, post it.
-
What is needed is viral adoption of an opposition philosophy that can get around the large media character killing machine.
The Democrats could do this, but only if they purge the GOP Lite leadership which they are not likely to do.
powerade
If this is a view that you truly hold then you could have started out by expressing yourself this way. For some reason, you didn't have the integrity to do so.
Instead, you chose to muck up multiple threads with this kind of shit:
Typical Democrat. Uncaring. Uninformed. Bigoted.
That is why you are the minority, you have no values.
11.20.04 - 12:56 pm |
BTW, I'm glad Ken Starr made it legal to arrest Democrats. It'll be fun watching the fat cats be led off to Leavenworth.
11.20.04 - 1:00 pm |
The Democratic Party.
A group of failed losers who will all be in prison by 2008.
11.20.04 - 1:43 pm |
Did you really think we'd all be so alarmed at the prospect of losing your powerful intellectual talents that we'd rush to implement your reforms? Oh, that's right - you didn't have any that amounted to anything more than insubstantial bitching.
If you've got some constructive suggestions or useful information, post it.
-
Just want to reiteriate the above re: CSPAN2. Check it out!!!
Even McCain is pissed!!!
Repubs are apologizing, backtracking, stammering!!!
Repubs in trouble! Fun to watch!!!
Just want to reiteriate the above re: CSPAN2. Check it out!!!
Even McCain is pissed!!!
Repubs are apologizing, backtracking, stammering!!!
Repubs in trouble! Fun to watch!!!
stinky feet - some days for me it's a toss-up who I despise the most - Bush or the media. I really think it's the media more days than not. They fucking made Bush possible. And the Bush Atrocities.
stinky feet - some days for me it's a toss-up who I despise the most - Bush or the media. I really think it's the media more days than not. They fucking made Bush possible. And the Bush Atrocities.
Grassley just said that 2 staffers added this section (WTF is that?) and it will be removed. It better be.
Grassley just said that 2 staffers added this section (WTF is that?) and it will be removed. It better be.
"I don't get it- I'm a Libertarian, and it seem as if I am more radical that these wimpy dems."
That's because your party doesn't have anything to lose, no status, no representatives, nothing.
Not that the Dems have anything to lose, but appeasement is a powerful GOVERNMENTAL FORCE in a democracy, as the other-side-of-the-political-spectrum Conservative party proved in the UK in the 1930s.
Dictators can play democracies like concertinas, because they don't play fair, they don't play, and they don't give a flying fuck.
--
"I don't get it- I'm a Libertarian, and it seem as if I am more radical that these wimpy dems."
That's because your party doesn't have anything to lose, no status, no representatives, nothing.
Not that the Dems have anything to lose, but appeasement is a powerful GOVERNMENTAL FORCE in a democracy, as the other-side-of-the-political-spectrum Conservative party proved in the UK in the 1930s.
Dictators can play democracies like concertinas, because they don't play fair, they don't play, and they don't give a flying fuck.
--
Live Free or Die, your posts are really amusing and so chameleonesque. (Made up word, but you get the picture)
Live Free or Die, your posts are really amusing and so chameleonesque. (Made up word, but you get the picture)
Boxer & Feinstein are calling to hold up the vote...and call the House back into session.
you should see the size of this thing--it's a stack of paper a foot tall, 3000 some pages.
-L.
Boxer & Feinstein are calling to hold up the vote...and call the House back into session.
you should see the size of this thing--it's a stack of paper a foot tall, 3000 some pages.
-L.
Oooo, Feinstein is calling for an investigation into who inserted the total invasion of privacy item. R's still claiming it was a staffer who did it "on their own." She ain't buying it. Go Diane!
Tow
Oooo, Feinstein is calling for an investigation into who inserted the total invasion of privacy item. R's still claiming it was a staffer who did it "on their own." She ain't buying it. Go Diane!
Tow
"It'll be fun watching the fat cats be led off to Leavenworth."
Listen, I've LIVED in Leavenworth and it's scary. The more the merrier!
"It'll be fun watching the fat cats be led off to Leavenworth."
Listen, I've LIVED in Leavenworth and it's scary. The more the merrier!
Maybe it has to do with the children running thge white house!
Jillaurie
Maybe it has to do with the children running thge white house!
Jillaurie
If you've got some constructive suggestions or useful information, post it.
he's arguing with his own straw men.
as I pointed out upthread, he doesn't really give a shit what position he takes as long as he thinks he can score points with it.
he's run into his own endzone, spiked the ball, and is doing his own little ickey shuffle.
I was getting ready to tear him yet another new asshole, but realized that he's not worth the risk of RSI.
If you've got some constructive suggestions or useful information, post it.
he's arguing with his own straw men.
as I pointed out upthread, he doesn't really give a shit what position he takes as long as he thinks he can score points with it.
he's run into his own endzone, spiked the ball, and is doing his own little ickey shuffle.
I was getting ready to tear him yet another new asshole, but realized that he's not worth the risk of RSI.
Thanks for the heads-up about CSPAN.
Thanks for the heads-up about CSPAN.
New amendment to US constitution outlawing the theory of evolution will solve the problems along the killer Baghdad airport trip
New amendment to US constitution outlawing the theory of evolution will solve the problems along the killer Baghdad airport trip
From fourlegs good:
"I guess no one in neo-con land has ever read "The 7 Pillars of Wisdom" or seen Lawrence of Arabia."
You can bet that Dr Rice never did.
She was playing the effing piano.
From fourlegs good:
"I guess no one in neo-con land has ever read "The 7 Pillars of Wisdom" or seen Lawrence of Arabia."
You can bet that Dr Rice never did.
She was playing the effing piano.
Paul,
what do the dems have to lose?
All daschle/gephard, Clelland, Landrieu did was play nice to bush signing off on his war, signing on to bankrupting the economy. And how did the repubs reward them, Frist campaign against Big D, Bush campisnged against Clelland, and the dems lost hte Senate. What is the point of getting along with these people?
Paul,
what do the dems have to lose?
All daschle/gephard, Clelland, Landrieu did was play nice to bush signing off on his war, signing on to bankrupting the economy. And how did the repubs reward them, Frist campaign against Big D, Bush campisnged against Clelland, and the dems lost hte Senate. What is the point of getting along with these people?
pie,
are you single? Just curious.
pie,
are you single? Just curious.
Even McCain is pissed!!!
Who cares. Liberals are like battered women with this jerk. They keep thinking he's going to change. He's not. He puts on a big moderate show for the media and in the end comes back and carries Bush's water.
Even McCain is pissed!!!
Who cares. Liberals are like battered women with this jerk. They keep thinking he's going to change. He's not. He puts on a big moderate show for the media and in the end comes back and carries Bush's water.
Holy shit. That little addition to give everyone in congress access to everyone's tax returns passed in the house. They didn't catch it. Thank God the senate did!
Tow
Holy shit. That little addition to give everyone in congress access to everyone's tax returns passed in the house. They didn't catch it. Thank God the senate did!
Tow
Live Free or Die, what's your problem?
Live Free or Die, what's your problem?
They didn't catch it.
Hahahahahaha. Yeah, right.
They didn't catch it.
Hahahahahaha. Yeah, right.
SWR,
Right on! Fuck McCain. I heard he tried to call Kerry after the elections, but that Kerry did not return the call.
SWR,
Right on! Fuck McCain. I heard he tried to call Kerry after the elections, but that Kerry did not return the call.
"what do the dems have to lose?"
You need to study appeasement. They have to lose the Dictator doing something nasty.
As for 'what is the point,' that is another misunderstanding of the nature of appeasement. There is no way to win over dictators, and democracies have a real hard time dealing with them.
Hitler was convinced the rot in France and Britain was fatal. But in Britain the lone voice of Churchill eventually resurrected the country to fight fascism.
The alternative? I suppose you can just whine on about appeasement without recognizing that it is a characteristic of our system of government, that dictatorships have not been driven from the earth, and that wars for profit -- are there any other kind?
The 'signing off' bullshit is really ripe. There has never been an Executive war in this country blocked by the Congress, and there may never be. The system itself requires Congress to play along.
That's OUR system, for all its foibles and beauties.
--
"what do the dems have to lose?"
You need to study appeasement. They have to lose the Dictator doing something nasty.
As for 'what is the point,' that is another misunderstanding of the nature of appeasement. There is no way to win over dictators, and democracies have a real hard time dealing with them.
Hitler was convinced the rot in France and Britain was fatal. But in Britain the lone voice of Churchill eventually resurrected the country to fight fascism.
The alternative? I suppose you can just whine on about appeasement without recognizing that it is a characteristic of our system of government, that dictatorships have not been driven from the earth, and that wars for profit -- are there any other kind?
The 'signing off' bullshit is really ripe. There has never been an Executive war in this country blocked by the Congress, and there may never be. The system itself requires Congress to play along.
That's OUR system, for all its foibles and beauties.
--
I heard he tried to call Kerry after the elections, but that Kerry did not return the call.
Source, please.
I heard he tried to call Kerry after the elections, but that Kerry did not return the call.
Source, please.
Source, please.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:07 pm | #
You don't get the trolls' talking point bullitan?
Source, please.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:07 pm | #
You don't get the trolls' talking point bullitan?
"I was getting ready to tear him yet another new asshole, but realized that he's not worth the risk of RSI.--theodoric"
Gee, wasn't that you saying yesterday that you don't give a fk if Ohio has legal elections? It's the 'people of that state's problem'?
When are you going to tear yourself a new one?
--
"I was getting ready to tear him yet another new asshole, but realized that he's not worth the risk of RSI.--theodoric"
Gee, wasn't that you saying yesterday that you don't give a fk if Ohio has legal elections? It's the 'people of that state's problem'?
When are you going to tear yourself a new one?
--
SWR:
>
No doubt. But, if you're watching CSPAN2, there's actually quite a bit of backtracking and hemming and hawing by the Repubs.
My point wasn't "McCain's coming over to our side." It was that there are Dems AND Repubs speaking out against the dirty tricks in this bill under debate right now.
SWR:
>
No doubt. But, if you're watching CSPAN2, there's actually quite a bit of backtracking and hemming and hawing by the Repubs.
My point wasn't "McCain's coming over to our side." It was that there are Dems AND Repubs speaking out against the dirty tricks in this bill under debate right now.
oops...tried to include SWR's quotes there...
oops...tried to include SWR's quotes there...
Ok, the Dems in the house didn't catch it. The R's sure as hell knew it was in there.
Ok, the Dems in the house didn't catch it. The R's sure as hell knew it was in there.
You don't get the trolls' talking point bullitan?
Well, that doesn't have much credence now, does it?
You don't get the trolls' talking point bullitan?
Well, that doesn't have much credence now, does it?
Dictators can play democracies like concertinas, because they don't play fair, they don't play, and they don't give a flying fuck.
Our dilemma in a nutshell.
Dictators can play democracies like concertinas, because they don't play fair, they don't play, and they don't give a flying fuck.
Our dilemma in a nutshell.
Well, that doesn't have much credence now, does it?
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:13 pm | # ,/i>
Depends on the individual writers. Sometimes they have a good guest editor.
Well, that doesn't have much credence now, does it?
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:13 pm | # ,/i>
Depends on the individual writers. Sometimes they have a good guest editor.
Pie,
Kerry snubbing McCain
Call it a bad case of bad attitude, but John Kerry is not returning John McCain’s phone calls. According to NewsMax.com, the badly defeated Kerry is apparently holding a grudge against McCain:
It looks like failed presidential candidate John Kerry is nursing a grudge against his one-time friend and former defender, Sen. John McCain, who revealed yesterday that he's tried to contact the Massachusetts Democrat since his crushing defeat, but Kerry won't return his calls.
"I put in a call to John and I have not heard back from him," McCain told ABC Radio host Sean Hannity.
"We were friends and will remain friends," said the Arizona Republican, sounding mystified over the cold shoulder from his fellow Vietnam veteran.
"While McCain campaigned for President Bush, he went out of his way not to attack Kerry - and he harshly denounced a campaign by the Swiftvets and POWs for Truth to expose Kerry's Vietnam War record.
McCain said his old buddy needs to put his election defeat behind him and concentrate on his work in the Senate. "We've got a lot of issues that we've got to work on in a bipartisan way."
Pie,
Kerry snubbing McCain
Call it a bad case of bad attitude, but John Kerry is not returning John McCain’s phone calls. According to NewsMax.com, the badly defeated Kerry is apparently holding a grudge against McCain:
It looks like failed presidential candidate John Kerry is nursing a grudge against his one-time friend and former defender, Sen. John McCain, who revealed yesterday that he's tried to contact the Massachusetts Democrat since his crushing defeat, but Kerry won't return his calls.
"I put in a call to John and I have not heard back from him," McCain told ABC Radio host Sean Hannity.
"We were friends and will remain friends," said the Arizona Republican, sounding mystified over the cold shoulder from his fellow Vietnam veteran.
"While McCain campaigned for President Bush, he went out of his way not to attack Kerry - and he harshly denounced a campaign by the Swiftvets and POWs for Truth to expose Kerry's Vietnam War record.
McCain said his old buddy needs to put his election defeat behind him and concentrate on his work in the Senate. "We've got a lot of issues that we've got to work on in a bipartisan way."
According to NewsMax.com, the badly defeated Kerry is apparently holding a grudge against McCain:
Now there's a source that thinks highly of Kerry. Last time I saw them they were sponsoring "Stolen Honor" on PaxTV. You'll have to come up with a second source if you want anybody to believe you. I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that Newsmax isn't credible about Kerry.
According to NewsMax.com, the badly defeated Kerry is apparently holding a grudge against McCain:
Now there's a source that thinks highly of Kerry. Last time I saw them they were sponsoring "Stolen Honor" on PaxTV. You'll have to come up with a second source if you want anybody to believe you. I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that Newsmax isn't credible about Kerry.
Heddy!
Heddy!
Depends on the individual writers.
The republicans have so little credibility that it will take years before I ever trust one again.
Depends on the individual writers.
The republicans have so little credibility that it will take years before I ever trust one again.
BTW, what Librarian said:
Democratic Senators are tearing into the Omnibus appropriations bill RIGHT NOW, LIVE, on CSPAN2.
If any of you "where are the Dems?" wankers are still around and are genuinely interested in what they're doing, go catch it. Take notes. Send supportive E-mail to the good guys. For instance, Sen Lautenberg is tearing into the anti-choice facets of the bill. He deserves some E-love.
Or, you could just continue to wave the flag of virtue from atop your ivory towers. Yeah, LFoD, I'm talking to you.
-
BTW, what Librarian said:
Democratic Senators are tearing into the Omnibus appropriations bill RIGHT NOW, LIVE, on CSPAN2.
If any of you "where are the Dems?" wankers are still around and are genuinely interested in what they're doing, go catch it. Take notes. Send supportive E-mail to the good guys. For instance, Sen Lautenberg is tearing into the anti-choice facets of the bill. He deserves some E-love.
Or, you could just continue to wave the flag of virtue from atop your ivory towers. Yeah, LFoD, I'm talking to you.
-
"The dems just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And what was the deal with Kerry conceding w/o allt he votes counted."
If you like Palast's answer, it was that Kerry realized that the Rs were pulling another 2000 takeover, with threats, and the better part of valor was a tactical retreat, in order to fight another day.
After all, vote fraud is not fair play. That sounds weak, that's democracy for you. It's not Kerry's responsibility to prosecute vote fraud -- that's why we have an FBI.
That said, yeah, it was the shaft. But anyone who has lived long enough in a democracy knows the shaft good and well.
Still Kerry is in the fight, still he is in the Senate, he won the election by landslide so ~85 million Americans support him and will work to topple Bush. We have very little option, so whining and attacking our man in office is counterproductive, though it may make you feel better.
" If the situation was reversed, do you think the Bush would concede? Or charge that there was some vote manipulation scandal?
Live Free or Die
If the situation was reversed, Bush would kill whomever he had to in order to reverse it again. When asked by the UK amb. what to do about India, Hitler said, 'That's easy. Shoot Gandhi.'
The UK amb. thought H was making an off-color joke (and the UK amb. was enough of a racist not to see otherwise).
--
"The dems just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And what was the deal with Kerry conceding w/o allt he votes counted."
If you like Palast's answer, it was that Kerry realized that the Rs were pulling another 2000 takeover, with threats, and the better part of valor was a tactical retreat, in order to fight another day.
After all, vote fraud is not fair play. That sounds weak, that's democracy for you. It's not Kerry's responsibility to prosecute vote fraud -- that's why we have an FBI.
That said, yeah, it was the shaft. But anyone who has lived long enough in a democracy knows the shaft good and well.
Still Kerry is in the fight, still he is in the Senate, he won the election by landslide so ~85 million Americans support him and will work to topple Bush. We have very little option, so whining and attacking our man in office is counterproductive, though it may make you feel better.
" If the situation was reversed, do you think the Bush would concede? Or charge that there was some vote manipulation scandal?
Live Free or Die
If the situation was reversed, Bush would kill whomever he had to in order to reverse it again. When asked by the UK amb. what to do about India, Hitler said, 'That's easy. Shoot Gandhi.'
The UK amb. thought H was making an off-color joke (and the UK amb. was enough of a racist not to see otherwise).
--
NewsMax.com
Oh, blah, blah, blah.
How smart are you?
NewsMax.com
Oh, blah, blah, blah.
How smart are you?
The republicans have so little credibility that it will take years before I ever trust one again.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:17 pm | #
The Troll Quarterly is more nonpartisan than Republican.
The republicans have so little credibility that it will take years before I ever trust one again.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:17 pm | #
The Troll Quarterly is more nonpartisan than Republican.
Yea, but MCcain gave a direct quote. Look, if you think the source is bullshit, then get on google until you find a source you like
Yea, but MCcain gave a direct quote. Look, if you think the source is bullshit, then get on google until you find a source you like
NewsMax.com
Oh, blah, blah, blah.
How smart are you?
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:18 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Exactly. Quoting Newsmax on Kerry is like quoting John O'Neil on Kerry.
NewsMax.com
Oh, blah, blah, blah.
How smart are you?
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:18 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Exactly. Quoting Newsmax on Kerry is like quoting John O'Neil on Kerry.
Yea, but MCcain gave a direct quote. Look, if you think the source is bullshit, then get on google until you find a source you like
Why should I give a flying fuck whether McCain or Kerry are getting along. You're the one who brought it up to back up some point you were trying to make. If you want to use it, you find a source.
Yea, but MCcain gave a direct quote. Look, if you think the source is bullshit, then get on google until you find a source you like
Why should I give a flying fuck whether McCain or Kerry are getting along. You're the one who brought it up to back up some point you were trying to make. If you want to use it, you find a source.
For those of us who have cats, I suggest a symbolic gesture showing our disdain of McCain.
Print a photo of McCain, or clip same from a magazine or paper and bury one in each litter box you have.
Cleaning out the boxes is not a fun chore, but at least the rsults of the above will give you a short laugh or two.
For those of us who have cats, I suggest a symbolic gesture showing our disdain of McCain.
Print a photo of McCain, or clip same from a magazine or paper and bury one in each litter box you have.
Cleaning out the boxes is not a fun chore, but at least the rsults of the above will give you a short laugh or two.
Or, you could just continue to wave the flag of virtue from atop your ivory towers. Yeah, LFoD, I'm talking to you.
As are we all.
You're not part of the solution, LFoD.
Or, you could just continue to wave the flag of virtue from atop your ivory towers. Yeah, LFoD, I'm talking to you.
As are we all.
You're not part of the solution, LFoD.
Pie,
obviously I have a crush 
Pie,
obviously I have a crush
Can we get back to the road from Baghdad Airport? I suggest the airport be named Rumsfield, and the road Freedom March Freeway.
Can we get back to the road from Baghdad Airport? I suggest the airport be named Rumsfield, and the road Freedom March Freeway.
"Or, you could just continue to wave the flag of virtue from atop your ivory towers. Yeah, LFoD, I'm talking to you."
Hey, Fielding, soldarity cuts both ways, and a lot of atriosans haven't exactly been doing solidarity fighting the vote fraud. Scoffing at critics is fine in normal times, but really, atriosans have waved the flag of virtue in my face many times.
Like, do you remember last spring when I was pushing impeachment, and many atriosans said,
'We'll wait for the election.'
There are a whole lot of us in the 'guess again' category.
--
"Or, you could just continue to wave the flag of virtue from atop your ivory towers. Yeah, LFoD, I'm talking to you."
Hey, Fielding, soldarity cuts both ways, and a lot of atriosans haven't exactly been doing solidarity fighting the vote fraud. Scoffing at critics is fine in normal times, but really, atriosans have waved the flag of virtue in my face many times.
Like, do you remember last spring when I was pushing impeachment, and many atriosans said,
'We'll wait for the election.'
There are a whole lot of us in the 'guess again' category.
--
According to NewsMax.com...
According to Satan...
According to NewsMax.com...
According to Satan...
"You're not part of the solution, LFoD.
pie"
Actually, in fact, he is.
--
"You're not part of the solution, LFoD.
pie"
Actually, in fact, he is.
--
Like, do you remember last spring when I was pushing impeachment, and many atriosans said,
Who had control of Congress last spring?
You don't know how the government operates, I'm afraid.
Like, do you remember last spring when I was pushing impeachment, and many atriosans said,
Who had control of Congress last spring?
You don't know how the government operates, I'm afraid.
According to NewsMax.com...
According to Satan...
NTodd | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:23 pm | #
I've always wondered how someone with poor trolling skills like LFOD can take over a thread.
A skilled troll would have brought up a source that was a bit more, shall we say, bipartisan with the idea that it would fool more people.
But it didn't matter. He gets responses anyway. It's kind of a metaphor for our political system in a way. Bad trolling. But skilled enough to fool the American people.
According to NewsMax.com...
According to Satan...
NTodd | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:23 pm | #
I've always wondered how someone with poor trolling skills like LFOD can take over a thread.
A skilled troll would have brought up a source that was a bit more, shall we say, bipartisan with the idea that it would fool more people.
But it didn't matter. He gets responses anyway. It's kind of a metaphor for our political system in a way. Bad trolling. But skilled enough to fool the American people.
"For those of us who have cats, I suggest a symbolic gesture showing our disdain of McCain."
That's not funny. For all your haughty dislike of McCain, he remains a war hero and the people who understand what that means continue to protect him, even when USPNAC spins him around on their middle fingers like a yo-yo.
That's someone who paid a BIG sacrifice in pain and endurance. He should retire, but let's skip the trashing, shall we?
--
"For those of us who have cats, I suggest a symbolic gesture showing our disdain of McCain."
That's not funny. For all your haughty dislike of McCain, he remains a war hero and the people who understand what that means continue to protect him, even when USPNAC spins him around on their middle fingers like a yo-yo.
That's someone who paid a BIG sacrifice in pain and endurance. He should retire, but let's skip the trashing, shall we?
--
John Kerry's pattern is one of deception. He went to a medal burning durning Viet-Nam protestation and burnt his ribbons but kept his medals. He fought to defend his country in a war that he didn't believe in.
Let me be clear here, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANNOT HELP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. IT IS THE PARTY OF A PRESIDENT WHO LIES ABOUT RECEIVING A BLOW JOB WHILE AT WORK. IT IS THE PARTY OF A FLIP FLOPPER NAMED JOHN KERRY WHO RAN A CAMPAIGN BASED ON INSULTING STATISTICAL ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HUMAN NATURE. IT IS THE PARTY OF JOHN KERRY, A LOSER WHO HAS BETRAYED A MOVEMENT ENERGIZED BY A REAL LEADER NAMED HOWARD DEAN WHO HAD THE COURAGE TO TELL THE TRUTH.
HOWARD DEAN: YOU MUST BEAT THE DEMOCRATS IN ORDER TO BEAT THE REPUBLICANS. I AM CALLING ON YOU TO LEAVE YOUR PARTY. YOU CAN OUTFUND RAISE THEM AND YOU CAN BEAT THEM.
read the full treatise at my blog:
http://www.yeekyakairforce.com/o...th/
blogger.html
John Kerry's pattern is one of deception. He went to a medal burning durning Viet-Nam protestation and burnt his ribbons but kept his medals. He fought to defend his country in a war that he didn't believe in.
Let me be clear here, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANNOT HELP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. IT IS THE PARTY OF A PRESIDENT WHO LIES ABOUT RECEIVING A BLOW JOB WHILE AT WORK. IT IS THE PARTY OF A FLIP FLOPPER NAMED JOHN KERRY WHO RAN A CAMPAIGN BASED ON INSULTING STATISTICAL ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HUMAN NATURE. IT IS THE PARTY OF JOHN KERRY, A LOSER WHO HAS BETRAYED A MOVEMENT ENERGIZED BY A REAL LEADER NAMED HOWARD DEAN WHO HAD THE COURAGE TO TELL THE TRUTH.
HOWARD DEAN: YOU MUST BEAT THE DEMOCRATS IN ORDER TO BEAT THE REPUBLICANS. I AM CALLING ON YOU TO LEAVE YOUR PARTY. YOU CAN OUTFUND RAISE THEM AND YOU CAN BEAT THEM.
read the full treatise at my blog:
http://www.yeekyakairforce.com/o...th/
blogger.html
This is ridiculous.
The trollz are in 7th grade?
This is ridiculous.
The trollz are in 7th grade?
"I've always wondered how someone with poor trolling skills like LFOD can take over a thread.
A skilled troll..."
LFoD is NOT a troll. He is someone who is smarting with the pain of betrayal, and hey, my ass don't feel so good either.
SOLIDARITY.
--
"I've always wondered how someone with poor trolling skills like LFOD can take over a thread.
A skilled troll..."
LFoD is NOT a troll. He is someone who is smarting with the pain of betrayal, and hey, my ass don't feel so good either.
SOLIDARITY.
--
To spread our memes and frames, we need a distribution system. We could spend decades building up a counter to the GOP talk-radio, faux news, thinktank trifecta or...
We can do it now.
Operation: Red Illumination
Join the Resistance.
To spread our memes and frames, we need a distribution system. We could spend decades building up a counter to the GOP talk-radio, faux news, thinktank trifecta or...
We can do it now.
Operation: Red Illumination
Join the Resistance.
"John Kerry's pattern is one of deception."
THAT'S a troll (please don't feed).
Note the completed act of PROJECTION.
Gee, this new insanity feels so warm, it's like a bathtub full of piss!
--
"John Kerry's pattern is one of deception."
THAT'S a troll (please don't feed).
Note the completed act of PROJECTION.
Gee, this new insanity feels so warm, it's like a bathtub full of piss!
--
For all your haughty dislike of McCain, he remains a war hero
Isn't Osama a war hero?
I'm not comparing the two (don't want to insult Osama) but merely showing courage in a war isn't enough to give you any credibility in my book.
Fuck McCain. If you buy into the war hero crap, you play into the act.
For all your haughty dislike of McCain, he remains a war hero
Isn't Osama a war hero?
I'm not comparing the two (don't want to insult Osama) but merely showing courage in a war isn't enough to give you any credibility in my book.
Fuck McCain. If you buy into the war hero crap, you play into the act.
ollie, you are in 7th grade!
I knew it!
ollie, you are in 7th grade!
I knew it!
...if you think the source is bullshit--
It is. Everyone knows it. Even moronic brownshirt fucks.
Can we all ignore this prick now? Thanks.
...if you think the source is bullshit--
It is. Everyone knows it. Even moronic brownshirt fucks.
Can we all ignore this prick now? Thanks.
LFoD is NOT a troll. He is someone who is smarting with the pain of betrayal, and hey, my ass don't feel so good either.
Then he's got to be mind blowingly stupid to believe Newsmax on Kerry.
I'm not even saying Newsmax is worthless but it is worthless about Kerry.
LFoD is NOT a troll. He is someone who is smarting with the pain of betrayal, and hey, my ass don't feel so good either.
Then he's got to be mind blowingly stupid to believe Newsmax on Kerry.
I'm not even saying Newsmax is worthless but it is worthless about Kerry.
This guy from Alaska is oh, so sorry, and his people haven't slept for two days.
Aw.
This guy from Alaska is oh, so sorry, and his people haven't slept for two days.
Aw.
I'm not even saying Newsmax is worthless but it is worthless about Kerry
Ok, I'll say it then. Newsmax is worthless. Period.
I'm not even saying Newsmax is worthless but it is worthless about Kerry
Ok, I'll say it then. Newsmax is worthless. Period.
Sometimes when I don't sleep for two days I accidentally try to strip Americans of basic privacy rights.
Sometimes when I don't sleep for two days I accidentally try to strip Americans of basic privacy rights.
I've got the Exorcist Playing on TV behind me. Good quote by Max Von Sydow.
"The Devil will mix in some parts of the truth with his lies to confuse us".
McCain's occasional flirtations with being a moderate are similar
McCain = Satan
Don't forget it.
I've got the Exorcist Playing on TV behind me. Good quote by Max Von Sydow.
"The Devil will mix in some parts of the truth with his lies to confuse us".
McCain's occasional flirtations with being a moderate are similar
McCain = Satan
Don't forget it.
Could happen to anyone. Right?
Could happen to anyone. Right?
if you can, it's fascinating watching cspan2 on this irs provision sneaked into the appropriations bill. kent conrad -- who knew.
if you can, it's fascinating watching cspan2 on this irs provision sneaked into the appropriations bill. kent conrad -- who knew.
Ted Stevens is losing his mind. Kick ass.
Ted Stevens is losing his mind. Kick ass.
Actually, the title of the thread is appropriate:
One Road.
--
Actually, the title of the thread is appropriate:
One Road.
--
I don't get it- I'm a Libertarian, and it seem as if I am more radical that these wimpy dems. I know many Libertarians liked Dean and Clark just becaused they seemed on fire, and unwilling to back down. It reminded me of Newt when the repubs were taking over power in DC
Do not confuse radicalism with backbone. The Dems in general are spineless jellyfish who are a shade of grey in the spectrum of Republicanism.
Dean and Clark aren't radicals. But they do have courage and will stand up for it.
I don't get it- I'm a Libertarian, and it seem as if I am more radical that these wimpy dems. I know many Libertarians liked Dean and Clark just becaused they seemed on fire, and unwilling to back down. It reminded me of Newt when the repubs were taking over power in DC
Do not confuse radicalism with backbone. The Dems in general are spineless jellyfish who are a shade of grey in the spectrum of Republicanism.
Dean and Clark aren't radicals. But they do have courage and will stand up for it.
Sometimes when I don't sleep for two days I accidentally try to strip Americans of basic privacy rights.
So do Americans actually believe that this happens accidentally?
Now they're yelling.
Good. Yell. The process has broken down. It's wrong.
Sometimes when I don't sleep for two days I accidentally try to strip Americans of basic privacy rights.
So do Americans actually believe that this happens accidentally?
Now they're yelling.
Good. Yell. The process has broken down. It's wrong.
Methinks Stevens protests too much.
Methinks Stevens protests too much.
c-span good
repubs bad
c-span good
repubs bad
McCain is useless. I respect his service and his suffering 30 years ago. I put him in the Colin Powell category. Either of these people could have stepped up and singlehandly prevented Iraqnam. Or at least made it so political-capital expensive that Chimpy would have lost 80-20%. Instead they enabled this drunk bankrupting our military and our country. Their silence and enabling is doing the work of Osama.
McCain is useless. I respect his service and his suffering 30 years ago. I put him in the Colin Powell category. Either of these people could have stepped up and singlehandly prevented Iraqnam. Or at least made it so political-capital expensive that Chimpy would have lost 80-20%. Instead they enabled this drunk bankrupting our military and our country. Their silence and enabling is doing the work of Osama.
Dean and Clark aren't radicals. But they do have courage and will stand up for it.
The Devil will mix in some parts of the truth with his lies to confuse us.
Do not feed the troll.
Dean and Clark aren't radicals. But they do have courage and will stand up for it.
The Devil will mix in some parts of the truth with his lies to confuse us.
Do not feed the troll.
powerade, (the name you're using now?) get the fuck out of here.
powerade, (the name you're using now?) get the fuck out of here.
"Then he's got to be mind blowingly stupid to believe Newsmax on Kerry. "
Mindblowing stupid is not a monopoly, SWR.
--
"Then he's got to be mind blowingly stupid to believe Newsmax on Kerry. "
Mindblowing stupid is not a monopoly, SWR.
--
I respect his service and his suffering 30 years ago. I put him in the Colin Powell category. Either of these people could have stepped up and singlehandly prevented Iraqnam.
Here's another war hero who fucked up big time.
I respect his service and his suffering 30 years ago. I put him in the Colin Powell category. Either of these people could have stepped up and singlehandly prevented Iraqnam.
Here's another war hero who fucked up big time.
I love this big argument about the right to keep your tax returns private (which I ardently agree with) and threatening to veto the bill - but a woman's right to privacy, well that can be put off for several months.
Anybody else see the irony?
Shit
I love this big argument about the right to keep your tax returns private (which I ardently agree with) and threatening to veto the bill - but a woman's right to privacy, well that can be put off for several months.
Anybody else see the irony?
Shit
Stevens: "This is just as much your fault as ours."
Something like that.
Stevens: "This is just as much your fault as ours."
Something like that.
powerade, (the name you're using now?) get the fuck out of here.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:42 pm | #
Powerade. The Power of Christ compels You.
powerade, (the name you're using now?) get the fuck out of here.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:42 pm | #
Powerade. The Power of Christ compels You.
Stop me if you've heard this story before:
Great white father speaks with forked tongue, takes other people's land and kills them.
same old, same old, no?
A Dr. Wu first.
Stop me if you've heard this story before:
Great white father speaks with forked tongue, takes other people's land and kills them.
same old, same old, no?
A Dr. Wu first.
McCain = Satan
Don't forget it.
SWR
mccain is a trophy to human ugliness at this point, and he'll only appeal to places where cannibalism is fashionable. When this next administration is through he will straggle off across the desert to poison other places where geese, egrets, raven, ducks, lizards and snakes are afraid to tread.
McCain = Satan
Don't forget it.
SWR
mccain is a trophy to human ugliness at this point, and he'll only appeal to places where cannibalism is fashionable. When this next administration is through he will straggle off across the desert to poison other places where geese, egrets, raven, ducks, lizards and snakes are afraid to tread.
"McCain is useless. I respect his service and his suffering 30 years ago. I put him in the Colin Powell category."
Wow, in no fucking way. Powell is an outright traitor. McCain is a very unwilling appeaser who has betrayed himself several times. That, and he's a war hawk.
Installing ME airbases is not a military goal that looks entirely stupid to warhawks. It's just the kind of warhawk nonsense that someone like McCain would sucker into, and then get played by USPNAC.
--
"McCain is useless. I respect his service and his suffering 30 years ago. I put him in the Colin Powell category."
Wow, in no fucking way. Powell is an outright traitor. McCain is a very unwilling appeaser who has betrayed himself several times. That, and he's a war hawk.
Installing ME airbases is not a military goal that looks entirely stupid to warhawks. It's just the kind of warhawk nonsense that someone like McCain would sucker into, and then get played by USPNAC.
--
Instead, you chose to muck up multiple threads with this kind of shit:
Typical Democrat. Uncaring. Uninformed. Bigoted.
That is why you are the minority, you have no values.
11.20.04 - 12:56 pm |
BTW, I'm glad Ken Starr made it legal to arrest Democrats. It'll be fun watching the fat cats be led off to Leavenworth.
11.20.04 - 1:00 pm |
The Democratic Party.
A group of failed losers who will all be in prison by 2008.
11.20.04 - 1:43 pm |
Did you really think we'd all be so alarmed at the prospect of losing your powerful intellectual talents that we'd rush to implement your reforms? Oh, that's right - you didn't have any that amounted to anything more than insubstantial bitching.
Everything I wrote it true. If the Democrats really cared, there would be opposition, not contrition, towards the GOP. Daschle and Gephardt couldn't do enough to give Bush everything he wanted.
And as far as Ken Starr was concerned, show me ONE Democrat who stood up to him. None. Pathetic. A true fighting party would have made a mockery out of Starr and the Monica-gate fiasco.
Instead, you allowed it to ruin your party.
Instead, you chose to muck up multiple threads with this kind of shit:
Typical Democrat. Uncaring. Uninformed. Bigoted.
That is why you are the minority, you have no values.
11.20.04 - 12:56 pm |
BTW, I'm glad Ken Starr made it legal to arrest Democrats. It'll be fun watching the fat cats be led off to Leavenworth.
11.20.04 - 1:00 pm |
The Democratic Party.
A group of failed losers who will all be in prison by 2008.
11.20.04 - 1:43 pm |
Did you really think we'd all be so alarmed at the prospect of losing your powerful intellectual talents that we'd rush to implement your reforms? Oh, that's right - you didn't have any that amounted to anything more than insubstantial bitching.
Everything I wrote it true. If the Democrats really cared, there would be opposition, not contrition, towards the GOP. Daschle and Gephardt couldn't do enough to give Bush everything he wanted.
And as far as Ken Starr was concerned, show me ONE Democrat who stood up to him. None. Pathetic. A true fighting party would have made a mockery out of Starr and the Monica-gate fiasco.
Instead, you allowed it to ruin your party.
Kent Conrad seems to be doing well. Nice recipe: Republican feet ---> Fire
Kent Conrad seems to be doing well. Nice recipe: Republican feet ---> Fire
I love this big argument about the right to keep your tax returns private (which I ardently agree with) and threatening to veto the bill - but a woman's right to privacy, well that can be put off for several months.
Anybody else see the irony?
I have an iron.
I love this big argument about the right to keep your tax returns private (which I ardently agree with) and threatening to veto the bill - but a woman's right to privacy, well that can be put off for several months.
Anybody else see the irony?
I have an iron.
They didn't catch it.
Hahahahahaha. Yeah, right.
pie
anyone taking bets that they'll both show up in conference committee?
They didn't catch it.
Hahahahahaha. Yeah, right.
pie
anyone taking bets that they'll both show up in conference committee?
Instead, you allowed it to ruin your party.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:47 pm | #
The Power of Christ Compels You.
Instead, you allowed it to ruin your party.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:47 pm | #
The Power of Christ Compels You.
powerade,
GO FUCK YOURSELF.
And have a nice day. 
powerade,
GO FUCK YOURSELF.
And have a nice day.
"mccain is a trophy to human ugliness at this point, and he'll only appeal to places where cannibalism is fashionable."
Utterly untrue slander. McCain is on my tv saying that this 1,000s page appropriations bill is nonsense. What's ugly is sitting down and taking it in silence.
If Bush tripped down the WH stairs and broke his neck (praise Jesus), McCain would not be entirely horrified.
Let's put YOU in a cell and torture YOU, see how YOU come out. He should retire, he's probably not fit, but prima donna or trophy he is not.
--
"mccain is a trophy to human ugliness at this point, and he'll only appeal to places where cannibalism is fashionable."
Utterly untrue slander. McCain is on my tv saying that this 1,000s page appropriations bill is nonsense. What's ugly is sitting down and taking it in silence.
If Bush tripped down the WH stairs and broke his neck (praise Jesus), McCain would not be entirely horrified.
Let's put YOU in a cell and torture YOU, see how YOU come out. He should retire, he's probably not fit, but prima donna or trophy he is not.
--
Stevens is pounding and spitting and pleading (he must have plane tickets)--he says, "mistake", he says "sorry", he says "not our fault because we didn't have enough time" and then he says:
pass the bill, trust us, WE WON'T USE THE TAX SNOOPING PROVISION AND IT WILL GET REMOVED WHEN WE COME BACK.
(of course, Stevens won't be Chairman for the 109th session.)
so, "trust us"? where have we heard this before?
do you think we can call these Senators' offices right now and support them in blocking the bill? would anyone answer? would the staff tell the Senators that people were calling?
-L.
oh, Paul--i found a good site for following all the Ohio stories:
http://ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com/
Stevens is pounding and spitting and pleading (he must have plane tickets)--he says, "mistake", he says "sorry", he says "not our fault because we didn't have enough time" and then he says:
pass the bill, trust us, WE WON'T USE THE TAX SNOOPING PROVISION AND IT WILL GET REMOVED WHEN WE COME BACK.
(of course, Stevens won't be Chairman for the 109th session.)
so, "trust us"? where have we heard this before?
do you think we can call these Senators' offices right now and support them in blocking the bill? would anyone answer? would the staff tell the Senators that people were calling?
-L.
oh, Paul--i found a good site for following all the Ohio stories:
http://ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com/
anyone taking bets that they'll both show up in conference committee?
Either that or our reps, dem and repubs, are totally clueless.
Wow. Just fuckin' wow.
anyone taking bets that they'll both show up in conference committee?
Either that or our reps, dem and repubs, are totally clueless.
Wow. Just fuckin' wow.
nothing should be kept private if it touches the government directly - indirectly would qualify as medical records (medicaid) and this should remain private.
you want to live in an open democratic society or an agendocracy?
if you want the latter try residency in the bangkok hilton -- the girls and the drinks are cheap, but at least you never have regret
nothing should be kept private if it touches the government directly - indirectly would qualify as medical records (medicaid) and this should remain private.
you want to live in an open democratic society or an agendocracy?
if you want the latter try residency in the bangkok hilton -- the girls and the drinks are cheap, but at least you never have regret
Let's put YOU in a cell and torture YOU, see how YOU come out.
Yeah so? How many Islamic terrorists are in Gitmo right now in cells being tortured? A lot I'd say.
Once again, I'm not comparing McCain to a member of Al Qaeda. But I am saying that physical bravery and the ability to take pain don't in and of themselves give credibility (or even merit respect).
Let's put YOU in a cell and torture YOU, see how YOU come out.
Yeah so? How many Islamic terrorists are in Gitmo right now in cells being tortured? A lot I'd say.
Once again, I'm not comparing McCain to a member of Al Qaeda. But I am saying that physical bravery and the ability to take pain don't in and of themselves give credibility (or even merit respect).
powerade, (the name you're using now?) get the fuck out of here.
Typical. Weak, pathetic, partisans reduced to name calling.
Look in the mirror, you are as responsible for the hell this country is about to face as anyone. In fact it is the Democratic party that is to blame because its leaders, and its minions, have been awol the past forty years. In the meantime, the right has steamrolled its way into power as rightwing coup after coup was permitted to stand with silence from the opposition.
powerade, (the name you're using now?) get the fuck out of here.
Typical. Weak, pathetic, partisans reduced to name calling.
Look in the mirror, you are as responsible for the hell this country is about to face as anyone. In fact it is the Democratic party that is to blame because its leaders, and its minions, have been awol the past forty years. In the meantime, the right has steamrolled its way into power as rightwing coup after coup was permitted to stand with silence from the opposition.
"Daschle and Gephardt couldn't do enough to give Bush everything he wanted."
More slander. Gephardt lost his position to Pelosi BECAUSE he would not shift, but Daschle fought long and hard while he was the Majority Leader, handing Bush, pre-911, a bunch of losses.
What part of 911 is a specific fault of the Democratic party? It was a national tragedy, abetted by bastards at the other end of the Avenue.
--
"Daschle and Gephardt couldn't do enough to give Bush everything he wanted."
More slander. Gephardt lost his position to Pelosi BECAUSE he would not shift, but Daschle fought long and hard while he was the Majority Leader, handing Bush, pre-911, a bunch of losses.
What part of 911 is a specific fault of the Democratic party? It was a national tragedy, abetted by bastards at the other end of the Avenue.
--
Look in the mirror, you are as responsible for the hell this country is about to face as anyone. In fact it is the Democratic party that is to blame because its leaders, and its minions, have been awol the past forty years. In the meantime, the right has steamrolled its way into power as rightwing coup after coup was permitted to stand with silence from the opposition.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:53 pm | #
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
Look in the mirror, you are as responsible for the hell this country is about to face as anyone. In fact it is the Democratic party that is to blame because its leaders, and its minions, have been awol the past forty years. In the meantime, the right has steamrolled its way into power as rightwing coup after coup was permitted to stand with silence from the opposition.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:53 pm | #
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
Let's put YOU in a cell and torture YOU, see how YOU come out. He should retire, he's probably not fit, but prima donna or trophy he is not.
--
Paul
so paulie-boy -- and i use that term in a non-bathhouse sorta way -- all bets are off after mccain kissed dubya's dick after the swifties were done slopping lies on kerry -- where was HIS nerve then?
i may end up in a cell and i may get tortured by this fascist regime, but you are nothing more than a sheep getting sodomized by gutter pimps like mccain
wake up, fuckwad
Let's put YOU in a cell and torture YOU, see how YOU come out. He should retire, he's probably not fit, but prima donna or trophy he is not.
--
Paul
so paulie-boy -- and i use that term in a non-bathhouse sorta way -- all bets are off after mccain kissed dubya's dick after the swifties were done slopping lies on kerry -- where was HIS nerve then?
i may end up in a cell and i may get tortured by this fascist regime, but you are nothing more than a sheep getting sodomized by gutter pimps like mccain
wake up, fuckwad
powerade,
GO FUCK YOURSELF.
And have a nice day.
Cute. Productive.
And you wonder how this country got to this Flirt with Fascism.
powerade,
GO FUCK YOURSELF.
And have a nice day.
Cute. Productive.
And you wonder how this country got to this Flirt with Fascism.
Let's put YOU in a cell and torture YOU, see how YOU come out. He should retire, he's probably not fit, but prima donna or trophy he is not.
He's on Bush's wall.
All anyone needs to know.
Politics: the most dangerous game.
Let's put YOU in a cell and torture YOU, see how YOU come out. He should retire, he's probably not fit, but prima donna or trophy he is not.
He's on Bush's wall.
All anyone needs to know.
Politics: the most dangerous game.
I guess freedom is on the march then.
I guess freedom is on the march then.
And you wonder how this country got to this Flirt with Fascism.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:56 pm | #
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
And you wonder how this country got to this Flirt with Fascism.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:56 pm | #
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
"Yeah so? How many Islamic terrorists are in Gitmo right now in cells being tortured? A lot I'd say."
Actually, very few. The people in Guantanamo are mostly innocent.
"I am saying that physical bravery and the ability to take pain don't in and of themselves give credibility (or even merit respect).
SWR"
Yeah, because it's not a circus act, fucker. He survived torture at the hand of the enemy during service to his country. Service in which he offered to die for America.
You don't support the troops, that's your problem.
--
"Yeah so? How many Islamic terrorists are in Gitmo right now in cells being tortured? A lot I'd say."
Actually, very few. The people in Guantanamo are mostly innocent.
"I am saying that physical bravery and the ability to take pain don't in and of themselves give credibility (or even merit respect).
SWR"
Yeah, because it's not a circus act, fucker. He survived torture at the hand of the enemy during service to his country. Service in which he offered to die for America.
You don't support the troops, that's your problem.
--
And you wonder how this country got to this Flirt with Fascism.
You're an asshole.
And you wonder how this country got to this Flirt with Fascism.
You're an asshole.
On the bright side, Byrd is in CSPAN saying words like Byrd said excrescence....and portends....
On the bright side, Byrd is in CSPAN saying words like Byrd said excrescence....and portends....
FREE ALL PLASTIC TURKEYS
FREE ALL PLASTIC TURKEYS
Everything I wrote it true. If the Democrats really cared, there would be opposition, not contrition, towards the GOP. Daschle and Gephardt couldn't do enough to give Bush everything he wanted.
And as far as Ken Starr was concerned, show me ONE Democrat who stood up to him. None. Pathetic. A true fighting party would have made a mockery out of Starr and the Monica-gate fiasco.
Instead, you allowed it to ruin your party.
I think this is a first here at Atrios. We've had all sorts of trolls fouling up the place, but this here is new wrinkle. A leftie, pissed at the Democrats, pretending to be a Republican, perhaps in hopes that we'll take what he says more seriously coming from the right rather than from the left. Not as meta-trolling, but as an actual trolling tactic.
Dear jeebus.
Everything I wrote it true. If the Democrats really cared, there would be opposition, not contrition, towards the GOP. Daschle and Gephardt couldn't do enough to give Bush everything he wanted.
And as far as Ken Starr was concerned, show me ONE Democrat who stood up to him. None. Pathetic. A true fighting party would have made a mockery out of Starr and the Monica-gate fiasco.
Instead, you allowed it to ruin your party.
I think this is a first here at Atrios. We've had all sorts of trolls fouling up the place, but this here is new wrinkle. A leftie, pissed at the Democrats, pretending to be a Republican, perhaps in hopes that we'll take what he says more seriously coming from the right rather than from the left. Not as meta-trolling, but as an actual trolling tactic.
Dear jeebus.
opps, weird sentence, sorry
opps, weird sentence, sorry
Holy fuck!!
Cspan 2!! thanks for the heads up. Stevens says the language is a mistake, and yet when the dems asked for a unanimous consent to remove the language the rethugs objected.
This is how it starts people. Giving congressmen the right to go into your tax returns and attack you.
And you know they will. Stevens says "I didn't ask for this power and won't use it." in other words, TRUST ME!!
Right.
No. FUCKING. WAY.
word up you fascist fucks. An insurrgency would work here too.
Holy fuck!!
Cspan 2!! thanks for the heads up. Stevens says the language is a mistake, and yet when the dems asked for a unanimous consent to remove the language the rethugs objected.
This is how it starts people. Giving congressmen the right to go into your tax returns and attack you.
And you know they will. Stevens says "I didn't ask for this power and won't use it." in other words, TRUST ME!!
Right.
No. FUCKING. WAY.
word up you fascist fucks. An insurrgency would work here too.
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
Yeah, sure. Forget it bub, I'm no fundie.
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
Yeah, sure. Forget it bub, I'm no fundie.
Sen. Byrd kind of makes me think of Bilbo Baggins with that vest (i mean this in a nice way, i kinda' like the old guy. he speaks his mind.)
-L.
Actually, very few. The people in Guantanamo are mostly innocent.
You dodged the point completely. There are a lot of Islamic terrorists who are incredibly brave and resiliant in the face of torture.
It doesn't give them credibility.
McCain's POW years are completely irrelevent as far as his credibility as a politician goes.
Sen. Byrd kind of makes me think of Bilbo Baggins with that vest (i mean this in a nice way, i kinda' like the old guy. he speaks his mind.)
-L.
Actually, very few. The people in Guantanamo are mostly innocent.
You dodged the point completely. There are a lot of Islamic terrorists who are incredibly brave and resiliant in the face of torture.
It doesn't give them credibility.
McCain's POW years are completely irrelevent as far as his credibility as a politician goes.
Yeah, sure. Forget it bub, I'm no fundie.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:58 pm | #
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
Yeah, sure. Forget it bub, I'm no fundie.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 6:58 pm | #
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU
McCain was extreme rightwing before the Keating 5 scandals. He learned to play chameleon during all those battles. He is nothing but a two faced hustler.
McCain was extreme rightwing before the Keating 5 scandals. He learned to play chameleon during all those battles. He is nothing but a two faced hustler.
This is how it starts people. Giving congressmen the right to go into your tax returns and attack you.
Spine. I like it.
This is how it starts people. Giving congressmen the right to go into your tax returns and attack you.
Spine. I like it.
so ... let's work this issue out from the backend (which is where paul resides, apparently)
because he spent a bit of time at the hanoi hilton and got driven batshit by the NVA, he gets a free pass?
not even a pedestrian fascist like g. gordon liddy would attempt such a vile piece of nonsense spin ... and maybe there's a couple of iranian hostages from the 1980s who could be VP???
so ... let's work this issue out from the backend (which is where paul resides, apparently)
because he spent a bit of time at the hanoi hilton and got driven batshit by the NVA, he gets a free pass?
not even a pedestrian fascist like g. gordon liddy would attempt such a vile piece of nonsense spin ... and maybe there's a couple of iranian hostages from the 1980s who could be VP???
I love it that one of the most literate people in the Senate and the House of Representative is the Senator from West Virginia.
I love it that one of the most literate people in the Senate and the House of Representative is the Senator from West Virginia.
Byrd:
We can't go on like this. We just can't go on like this.
Byrd:
We can't go on like this. We just can't go on like this.
I am going to unleash my secret weapon and wreak havoc on the world unless I receive my ransom of ONE MILLION dollars!
I am going to unleash my secret weapon and wreak havoc on the world unless I receive my ransom of ONE MILLION dollars!
I want to cry, but I won't.
What has Bush done to this country?
I want to cry, but I won't.
What has Bush done to this country?
Where did I see info that they want to use that new "get anybodys tax records" rule to get Texas District Attorney Ronnie Earle's tax records?
And that was really nice of stevens to say he wouldn't use the rule. Ha!
"McCain's POW years are completely irrelevent as far as his credibility as a politician goes."
Look. He's -my- senator. He's not the best one there could be, but HE'S NOT JON KYL.
All politics are local. What the hell do you think I've been doing this afternoon, between home, the Phoenix office and the Washington office? I've been telling him that -as his constituent- it's okay if he holds up the bill. It's okay. Do it. That's -my- job, with -my- senator. Yes, there's a clear, federal responsibility for senators as well - but it's the constituents who have to ensure that the senators can do their jobs.
Where did I see info that they want to use that new "get anybodys tax records" rule to get Texas District Attorney Ronnie Earle's tax records?
And that was really nice of stevens to say he wouldn't use the rule. Ha!
"McCain's POW years are completely irrelevent as far as his credibility as a politician goes."
Look. He's -my- senator. He's not the best one there could be, but HE'S NOT JON KYL.
All politics are local. What the hell do you think I've been doing this afternoon, between home, the Phoenix office and the Washington office? I've been telling him that -as his constituent- it's okay if he holds up the bill. It's okay. Do it. That's -my- job, with -my- senator. Yes, there's a clear, federal responsibility for senators as well - but it's the constituents who have to ensure that the senators can do their jobs.
Byrd.
My God.
I'm crying.
Byrd.
My God.
I'm crying.
Senate Trivia: according to their calendar, RIGHT NOW they are in the "morning" portion of the "Senate Day."
looks like the GPO will be up all night again tonight, waiting to print the Record.
-L.
Senate Trivia: according to their calendar, RIGHT NOW they are in the "morning" portion of the "Senate Day."
looks like the GPO will be up all night again tonight, waiting to print the Record.
-L.
On those restless nights when daddy bush drank scotch with dubya in the big house, he often joked about McCain. "How many more committees can we grow on that moron?" he would ask, while Manolo brought out the fresh ice and glasses and Jim Baker scanned the stack of daily action memos for new ways to skullfuck the senator over his dealings with Keating and the seven dwarfs.
short version: McCain is the hired help and he sits outside on the porch for a fee - if he wanted to make a difference, he would have joined a bi-partisan ticket and made real inroads towards addressing what ails the country.
but no -- he went for the gutter and the easy excuse -- and for that he gets the same place on the bookshelf as colson, ehrlichman and e. howard hunt -- another petty crook with venom in his arteries
On those restless nights when daddy bush drank scotch with dubya in the big house, he often joked about McCain. "How many more committees can we grow on that moron?" he would ask, while Manolo brought out the fresh ice and glasses and Jim Baker scanned the stack of daily action memos for new ways to skullfuck the senator over his dealings with Keating and the seven dwarfs.
short version: McCain is the hired help and he sits outside on the porch for a fee - if he wanted to make a difference, he would have joined a bi-partisan ticket and made real inroads towards addressing what ails the country.
but no -- he went for the gutter and the easy excuse -- and for that he gets the same place on the bookshelf as colson, ehrlichman and e. howard hunt -- another petty crook with venom in his arteries
The record speaks. The record tells the truth.
The record speaks. The record tells the truth.
I think I want to hug Senator Byrd.
FREE ALL PLASTIC JESUSES
I think I want to hug Senator Byrd.
FREE ALL PLASTIC JESUSES
Well, he's got 6 years to live this down, eh, GWPDA? So even if he does irritate the base it isn't like it's a problem for him. (Not that I'm saying you're wrong -- you are absolutely right) And he had a 72% victory or so, didn't he? He has capital to burn.
With that in mind, he's not risking all that much to prove he's not a puppet.
Don't know that this means anything, but it's my first reaction...
Well, he's got 6 years to live this down, eh, GWPDA? So even if he does irritate the base it isn't like it's a problem for him. (Not that I'm saying you're wrong -- you are absolutely right) And he had a 72% victory or so, didn't he? He has capital to burn.
With that in mind, he's not risking all that much to prove he's not a puppet.
Don't know that this means anything, but it's my first reaction...
Ted Stevens is losing his mind. Kick ass.
Diodotus
I was seriously hoping to see the first live telecast of a major cardiac event on CSPAN, but no such luck. Now I'm just being mean.
-
Ted Stevens is losing his mind. Kick ass.
Diodotus
I was seriously hoping to see the first live telecast of a major cardiac event on CSPAN, but no such luck. Now I'm just being mean.
-
Byrd.
My God.
I'm crying.
Me too, and not just from the vest.
Byrd.
My God.
I'm crying.
Me too, and not just from the vest.
those electronic lenses!!
oh wow.
those electronic lenses!!
oh wow.
Go Read this!
It might be the bomb we've prayed for.
Go Read this!
It might be the bomb we've prayed for.
i think primetime network tv should be forced to carry the cspan2 coverage...this is the stuff the regular people need to know is happening, and they don't because it isn't "news" and just try to explain this kind of thing to people who don't have any experience with it...
-L.
i think primetime network tv should be forced to carry the cspan2 coverage...this is the stuff the regular people need to know is happening, and they don't because it isn't "news" and just try to explain this kind of thing to people who don't have any experience with it...
-L.
Me too, and not just from the vest.
He's a classy guy.
Me too, and not just from the vest.
He's a classy guy.
here's to hoping that other dems do the same thing as byrd and take the fight to people who elected these morons
here's to hoping that other dems do the same thing as byrd and take the fight to people who elected these morons
Thank you Senator Byrd.
Thank you Senator Byrd.
Downbound, the 'base' in Arizona is on a three year transient schedule. Nobody sticks around much more than three years. McCain's base and he damn well knows it, are Old Phoenix, Old Tempe, Old Flagstaff - and that means about maybe 200,000 people. It isn't party politics here, any more than it's party politics in most of New Mexico - it's a question of power, and the accumulation of it. The accumulation of it for the -state-. McCain has, by and large, since Keating, paid back to the state. That's the base. It's Kyl who's playing party politics and it's Kyl who will do anything for himself. McCain isn't perfect - he isn't even an Arizonan - but mostly his payback to the state is judged acceptable. That's the way politics are here, and that's the way he's gotten re-elected.
Ted Kennedy has much the same situation.
Downbound, the 'base' in Arizona is on a three year transient schedule. Nobody sticks around much more than three years. McCain's base and he damn well knows it, are Old Phoenix, Old Tempe, Old Flagstaff - and that means about maybe 200,000 people. It isn't party politics here, any more than it's party politics in most of New Mexico - it's a question of power, and the accumulation of it. The accumulation of it for the -state-. McCain has, by and large, since Keating, paid back to the state. That's the base. It's Kyl who's playing party politics and it's Kyl who will do anything for himself. McCain isn't perfect - he isn't even an Arizonan - but mostly his payback to the state is judged acceptable. That's the way politics are here, and that's the way he's gotten re-elected.
Ted Kennedy has much the same situation.
Hey, Ted. Kick some more ass.
Hey, Ted. Kick some more ass.
Speak it Teddy!
Speak it Teddy!
Frankly I find much of powerade's drivel bracing and truthful.
Where WERE the dems during Monica? Where is our Karl Rove? We could have cast blowjobgate as the utter bullshit it was with a few kickass voices. Kerry could have cast Chimpy as the AWOL coward 9/11 Iraq fuckup he is. Why didn't he and why don't they?
Frankly I find much of powerade's drivel bracing and truthful.
Where WERE the dems during Monica? Where is our Karl Rove? We could have cast blowjobgate as the utter bullshit it was with a few kickass voices. Kerry could have cast Chimpy as the AWOL coward 9/11 Iraq fuckup he is. Why didn't he and why don't they?
Would somebody summarize the debate on that vote.
Even the article in the Guaridan doesn't tell you much.
Would somebody summarize the debate on that vote.
Even the article in the Guaridan doesn't tell you much.
If Bush tripped down the WH stairs and broke his neck (praise Jesus), McCain would not be entirely horrified.
I'll throw a fuckiing party if that happens.
I want to know who put this language in and what was their rationale?
Oh, and powerade? what have YOUR done personally to fight the rise of radicalism and facism in this country?
Besides being a prick, which doesn't count.
If Bush tripped down the WH stairs and broke his neck (praise Jesus), McCain would not be entirely horrified.
I'll throw a fuckiing party if that happens.
I want to know who put this language in and what was their rationale?
Oh, and powerade? what have YOUR done personally to fight the rise of radicalism and facism in this country?
Besides being a prick, which doesn't count.
Spy agency reform appears dead.
Spy agency reform appears dead.
Paul
I understand what you are saying in indicating McCain is a hero. He was.
My jest is an indication of severe disappointment in the man. People can do many good acts in their life, but a single stroke in the other direction can wipe that "capital" away. And trust me, I would not trash a military man if I felt inside myself there was a way to explain away his actions and find an honorable reason.
But simply being a war hero is not a free pass on everything else they do in life. In one respect, they must honor themselves first, they have the responsibility to living up to their legend. McCain is becoming a very sad example of someone who is not. I certainly cannot understand it considering the gross tactics used against him in the past. How could he ever roll over to them considering the incredible valor he showed as a POW, the torment they gave him and the disabilities they left him with. Standing up to his party should be a light summer's breeze.
Paul
I understand what you are saying in indicating McCain is a hero. He was.
My jest is an indication of severe disappointment in the man. People can do many good acts in their life, but a single stroke in the other direction can wipe that "capital" away. And trust me, I would not trash a military man if I felt inside myself there was a way to explain away his actions and find an honorable reason.
But simply being a war hero is not a free pass on everything else they do in life. In one respect, they must honor themselves first, they have the responsibility to living up to their legend. McCain is becoming a very sad example of someone who is not. I certainly cannot understand it considering the gross tactics used against him in the past. How could he ever roll over to them considering the incredible valor he showed as a POW, the torment they gave him and the disabilities they left him with. Standing up to his party should be a light summer's breeze.
Facts, today on my own tv, show McCain not being 'hired help.'
Syntallic, you talk big, but what have YOU done for this situation?
Everybody knows I'm pounding the streets every three days, for three years, protesting and pushing impeachment.
What the fuck do YOU do, other than trash people who made more sacrifice for their country than you probably EVER have.
--
Facts, today on my own tv, show McCain not being 'hired help.'
Syntallic, you talk big, but what have YOU done for this situation?
Everybody knows I'm pounding the streets every three days, for three years, protesting and pushing impeachment.
What the fuck do YOU do, other than trash people who made more sacrifice for their country than you probably EVER have.
--
But simply being a war hero is not a free pass on everything else they do in life.
Ulysees Grant: War hero. Arguably the worst president in American history.
Paul Von Hindenburg: War hero. Hitler's bitch.
Hitler: War Hero.
Osama Bin Laden: War hero.
George Armstrong Custer: War hero. Racist.
Andrew Jackson: War hero. Racist.
Audie Murphy: War hero. Psychotic retard.
But simply being a war hero is not a free pass on everything else they do in life.
Ulysees Grant: War hero. Arguably the worst president in American history.
Paul Von Hindenburg: War hero. Hitler's bitch.
Hitler: War Hero.
Osama Bin Laden: War hero.
George Armstrong Custer: War hero. Racist.
Andrew Jackson: War hero. Racist.
Audie Murphy: War hero. Psychotic retard.
9 Iraqi soldiers found executed in Mosul
9 Iraqi soldiers found executed in Mosul
Syntallic, you talk big, but what have YOU done for this situation?
Really bad argument. McCain's a fucking US Senator. Most people aren't.
Syntallic, you talk big, but what have YOU done for this situation?
Really bad argument. McCain's a fucking US Senator. Most people aren't.
Shut up Mary- this is not the time for you to be kissing Breaux's ass.
Let's get back to the point- are you guys going to let them pass this abomination?
Or are you going to stand up for americans for a change.
And fuck them for saying they'll let the abortion lanjuage stand if they get a hearing. Haven't they heard? bipartisanship is another name for date rape. Well, maybe that's wrong- maybe it's another word for gang rape.
Shut up Mary- this is not the time for you to be kissing Breaux's ass.
Let's get back to the point- are you guys going to let them pass this abomination?
Or are you going to stand up for americans for a change.
And fuck them for saying they'll let the abortion lanjuage stand if they get a hearing. Haven't they heard? bipartisanship is another name for date rape. Well, maybe that's wrong- maybe it's another word for gang rape.
SWR
I think you ned to apply racist and psychotic retard to Hitler as well.
SWR
I think you ned to apply racist and psychotic retard to Hitler as well.
"But simply being a war hero is not a free pass on everything else they do in life."
No, but it's a pass from venal personal attacks. We all owe our soldiers that (including, of course, John Kerry).
Look, when McCain was doing his .01 cent worth at various points, and a lot of protesters were momentarily happy with him, I told them he was both a warhawk and an admitted racist.
I am not a big McCain booster. I simply will not stand by while people trash our UCMJ-fighting soldiers -- especially when there is no indication that the people doing the shit-flinging have no comparable service to the country.
--
"But simply being a war hero is not a free pass on everything else they do in life."
No, but it's a pass from venal personal attacks. We all owe our soldiers that (including, of course, John Kerry).
Look, when McCain was doing his .01 cent worth at various points, and a lot of protesters were momentarily happy with him, I told them he was both a warhawk and an admitted racist.
I am not a big McCain booster. I simply will not stand by while people trash our UCMJ-fighting soldiers -- especially when there is no indication that the people doing the shit-flinging have no comparable service to the country.
--
Here's another good article by Karl Schwarz that includes the Sibel Edmonds et al letter to the powers that be, and a link to the Spitzer petition.
This will blow your socks off.
Here's another good article by Karl Schwarz that includes the Sibel Edmonds et al letter to the powers that be, and a link to the Spitzer petition.
This will blow your socks off.
The road to the Baghdad Airport is tough to secure because the signs for Arrivals and Departures are really hard to read and you always end up having to go around again.
The crowd for the Sunday brunch at the Courtyards By Marriott only adds to the confusion.
The road to the Baghdad Airport is tough to secure because the signs for Arrivals and Departures are really hard to read and you always end up having to go around again.
The crowd for the Sunday brunch at the Courtyards By Marriott only adds to the confusion.
Why is Landrieu doing this?
There must be some point to it.
Why is Landrieu doing this?
There must be some point to it.
No, but it's a pass from venal personal attacks. We all owe our soldiers that
In a saner world, I'd agree with you.
But the cultish worship of the military and other uniformed services has gotten so out of hand after 9/11 we need some balance.
This cultish worship has led to a lot of really bad decisions. It's the reason so many people in Middle America won't think for themselves about the war in Iraq. Support the troops.
I have no personal animous towards the military and the people who serve in it but I'm sorry, if you're demanding that I turn off my brain every time I see a uniform, it's not going to happen.
This is a very unAmerican attitude. It's more common to a Latin American military dictatorship. Prior to WWII Americans distrusted the military. We need some of that mistrust for balance.
No, but it's a pass from venal personal attacks. We all owe our soldiers that
In a saner world, I'd agree with you.
But the cultish worship of the military and other uniformed services has gotten so out of hand after 9/11 we need some balance.
This cultish worship has led to a lot of really bad decisions. It's the reason so many people in Middle America won't think for themselves about the war in Iraq. Support the troops.
I have no personal animous towards the military and the people who serve in it but I'm sorry, if you're demanding that I turn off my brain every time I see a uniform, it's not going to happen.
This is a very unAmerican attitude. It's more common to a Latin American military dictatorship. Prior to WWII Americans distrusted the military. We need some of that mistrust for balance.
Now, exactly why Sen Landrieu is standing up there making a "National Postage Stamp Day" type of speech when they've got all this work to do is a little stupifying.
-
Now, exactly why Sen Landrieu is standing up there making a "National Postage Stamp Day" type of speech when they've got all this work to do is a little stupifying.
-
Talking about the Dems, Nancy Pelosi is one tough broad...
Talking about the Dems, Nancy Pelosi is one tough broad...
"Syntallic, you talk big, but what have YOU done for this situation?
Really bad argument. McCain's a fucking US Senator. Most people aren't.
SWR"
That doesn't matter, and you know it. The point is that the 'Senators' are still just human beings JUST like you. As Senators they should get MORE respect, but Americans, as in all democracies, love to shit on their own representatives. It's immature, it's vile, and it doesn't serve ANYTHING other than poisoning the discourse about what CAN be done.
If Syntallic is a pimply-faced 12-year old, that says a lot about his no-holds-barred nastiness about men WE KNOW have paid pretty big prices for respect.
It can wear off, no doubt. McCain will probably retire in disgrace. But he may fool you (and W) still.
--
"Syntallic, you talk big, but what have YOU done for this situation?
Really bad argument. McCain's a fucking US Senator. Most people aren't.
SWR"
That doesn't matter, and you know it. The point is that the 'Senators' are still just human beings JUST like you. As Senators they should get MORE respect, but Americans, as in all democracies, love to shit on their own representatives. It's immature, it's vile, and it doesn't serve ANYTHING other than poisoning the discourse about what CAN be done.
If Syntallic is a pimply-faced 12-year old, that says a lot about his no-holds-barred nastiness about men WE KNOW have paid pretty big prices for respect.
It can wear off, no doubt. McCain will probably retire in disgrace. But he may fool you (and W) still.
--
Sorry to have missed the lovefest, I had to take a call
Sorry to have missed the lovefest, I had to take a call
What lovefest?
What lovefest?
"Talking about the Dems, Nancy Pelosi is one tough broad...wolf-man"
If we had ten Nancy Pelosi's, Bush would be running crying down a long, succorless road to warcrimes trials.
--
"Talking about the Dems, Nancy Pelosi is one tough broad...wolf-man"
If we had ten Nancy Pelosi's, Bush would be running crying down a long, succorless road to warcrimes trials.
--
Landrieu: "families raise children"
Sometimes they're wolf families.
Landrieu: "families raise children"
Sometimes they're wolf families.
The point is that the 'Senators' are still just human beings JUST like you.
My point was that a Senator quite obviously has more opportunity to be effective than the rest of us.
You've been pretty dishonest in slipping by obvious points. You didn't address the point that an Islamic terrorist is brave in the face of torture by saying that "most people in Gitmo are innocent".
Sorry. That doesn't work on me. I can read.
The point is that the 'Senators' are still just human beings JUST like you.
My point was that a Senator quite obviously has more opportunity to be effective than the rest of us.
You've been pretty dishonest in slipping by obvious points. You didn't address the point that an Islamic terrorist is brave in the face of torture by saying that "most people in Gitmo are innocent".
Sorry. That doesn't work on me. I can read.
"Now, exactly why Sen Landrieu is standing up there making a "National Postage Stamp Day" type of speech when they've got all this work to do is a little stupifying."
You might want to recall, from time to time, Fielding, that Senators are REPRESENTATIVES.
Landrieu has to speak Lousiannan. She is not a storm-trooper for democracy at every moment of the working day.
--
"Now, exactly why Sen Landrieu is standing up there making a "National Postage Stamp Day" type of speech when they've got all this work to do is a little stupifying."
You might want to recall, from time to time, Fielding, that Senators are REPRESENTATIVES.
Landrieu has to speak Lousiannan. She is not a storm-trooper for democracy at every moment of the working day.
--
You might want to recall, from time to time, Fielding, that Senators are REPRESENTATIVES.
And they tend to be REPRESENTATIVES of whoever pays them. Do you think I have the same access to Jon Corzine that the President of Merck does?
Next point.
You might want to recall, from time to time, Fielding, that Senators are REPRESENTATIVES.
And they tend to be REPRESENTATIVES of whoever pays them. Do you think I have the same access to Jon Corzine that the President of Merck does?
Next point.
Anyway some people cant take the truth. I pointed out a few insances wher dems backed down instead of fighting, and I get attacked with this viseral nonsence. If what I had to say was so troll-like, complain to atrios and have him kick me off the blog. But I think deep down inside, you know what I say is the truth, andthe truth hurts sometimes
Anyway some people cant take the truth. I pointed out a few insances wher dems backed down instead of fighting, and I get attacked with this viseral nonsence. If what I had to say was so troll-like, complain to atrios and have him kick me off the blog. But I think deep down inside, you know what I say is the truth, andthe truth hurts sometimes
But I think deep down inside, you know what I say is the truth, andthe truth hurts sometimes
"Truth" that's as general as "they lost because they didn't fight hard enough" is pretty worthless, doncha think?
But I think deep down inside, you know what I say is the truth, andthe truth hurts sometimes
"Truth" that's as general as "they lost because they didn't fight hard enough" is pretty worthless, doncha think?
Sorry to have missed the lovefest, I had to take a call
You didn't miss much. Most here refuse to acknowledge that wimpiness is a central component to the Democrats platform.
Oh, and point it out, they swear and cuss, but yet not a one of them has a plan to run for local office.
Sorry to have missed the lovefest, I had to take a call
You didn't miss much. Most here refuse to acknowledge that wimpiness is a central component to the Democrats platform.
Oh, and point it out, they swear and cuss, but yet not a one of them has a plan to run for local office.
What seems to be happening is an interval whilst it is determined what happens to the Omnibus Act. In that interval, various senators are allowed to stand up and say stuff - stuff not relevant to the Act. All the action right now is backstage.
What seems to be happening is an interval whilst it is determined what happens to the Omnibus Act. In that interval, various senators are allowed to stand up and say stuff - stuff not relevant to the Act. All the action right now is backstage.
Paul,
After what Bush did to McCain, his wife and kid, and seeing McCainn help elect the man, I have no respect for him any more. He was not the only one tortured. I mean the swift boats people put thier asses on the line to fight, but I don't repect them. Wasnt dashle, Cleland in the military? did I miss something, or did the repubs treat them with great respect.
Paul,
After what Bush did to McCain, his wife and kid, and seeing McCainn help elect the man, I have no respect for him any more. He was not the only one tortured. I mean the swift boats people put thier asses on the line to fight, but I don't repect them. Wasnt dashle, Cleland in the military? did I miss something, or did the repubs treat them with great respect.
"My point was that a Senator quite obviously has more opportunity to be effective than the rest of us."
And LESS opportunity, since they belong to a party, they have party discipline, they belong to a body, that has body discipline, and most can only thrive in a relatively fair environment.
"You've been pretty dishonest in slipping by obvious points."
This is Saturday. Between my many trips to the computer, I have pruned several trees, moved the trashcans, and raked my lawn. I have not had time to sit through every permutation.
" You didn't address the point that an Islamic terrorist is brave in the face of torture by saying that "most people in Gitmo are innocent".
They are; your supposition was falsely based.
Your argument is like the guy who wanted to protest next to me (at a National Cemetary, no less) with a big scrawled piece of cardboard which said, "Support Iraq's Freedom Fighters" (meaning the Iraqi's themselves). No such luck.
If you don't understand supporting the troops, there is not much I can say to make the maturity point with you. It is NOT the surviving of torture, it is the surviving of the torture IN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY that shields McCain from scurrilous personal attacks. He served, with distinction, and he has my thanks. He should have yours.
--
"My point was that a Senator quite obviously has more opportunity to be effective than the rest of us."
And LESS opportunity, since they belong to a party, they have party discipline, they belong to a body, that has body discipline, and most can only thrive in a relatively fair environment.
"You've been pretty dishonest in slipping by obvious points."
This is Saturday. Between my many trips to the computer, I have pruned several trees, moved the trashcans, and raked my lawn. I have not had time to sit through every permutation.
" You didn't address the point that an Islamic terrorist is brave in the face of torture by saying that "most people in Gitmo are innocent".
They are; your supposition was falsely based.
Your argument is like the guy who wanted to protest next to me (at a National Cemetary, no less) with a big scrawled piece of cardboard which said, "Support Iraq's Freedom Fighters" (meaning the Iraqi's themselves). No such luck.
If you don't understand supporting the troops, there is not much I can say to make the maturity point with you. It is NOT the surviving of torture, it is the surviving of the torture IN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY that shields McCain from scurrilous personal attacks. He served, with distinction, and he has my thanks. He should have yours.
--
Why is Landrieu doing this?
There must be some point to it.
None that I can see.
Look, we're at war here- we're standing at the brink of serious problems and they're standing around talking about process, adoption and other bullshit.
It's fucking unreal.
Why is Landrieu doing this?
There must be some point to it.
None that I can see.
Look, we're at war here- we're standing at the brink of serious problems and they're standing around talking about process, adoption and other bullshit.
It's fucking unreal.
Oh, and point it out, they swear and cuss, but yet not a one of them has a plan to run for local office.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 7:37 pm | #
What are you running for, exactly?
Oh, and point it out, they swear and cuss, but yet not a one of them has a plan to run for local office.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 7:37 pm | #
What are you running for, exactly?
You didn't miss much. Most here refuse to acknowledge that wimpiness is a central component to the Democrats platform.
Hardly. That's what you want to believe.
But trying to take over a thread with something that GENERAL is trolling.
Be a bit more specific and maybe people will flame you less.
You didn't miss much. Most here refuse to acknowledge that wimpiness is a central component to the Democrats platform.
Hardly. That's what you want to believe.
But trying to take over a thread with something that GENERAL is trolling.
Be a bit more specific and maybe people will flame you less.
No, it was, "Support the Iraqi Freedom Fighters."
--
No, it was, "Support the Iraqi Freedom Fighters."
--
Anyway some people cant take the truth. I pointed out a few insances wher dems backed down instead of fighting, and I get attacked with this viseral nonsence. If what I had to say was so troll-like, complain to atrios and have him kick me off the blog. But I think deep down inside, you know what I say is the truth, andthe truth hurts sometimes
See that's the problem. Any statement that veers from the "party line" is immediately attacked as being a troll.
There's a few on here who are willing to acknowledge that the "party line" has a ton of cracks in it, and that weakness and compromise are terrible tactics at this time.
Anyway some people cant take the truth. I pointed out a few insances wher dems backed down instead of fighting, and I get attacked with this viseral nonsence. If what I had to say was so troll-like, complain to atrios and have him kick me off the blog. But I think deep down inside, you know what I say is the truth, andthe truth hurts sometimes
See that's the problem. Any statement that veers from the "party line" is immediately attacked as being a troll.
There's a few on here who are willing to acknowledge that the "party line" has a ton of cracks in it, and that weakness and compromise are terrible tactics at this time.
I am watching mel martines who just wsa elected in FL. And he sounded just like Frist and Delay. simplify the tax system, tort reform, private acounts... etc. Why cant the dems have a coordinatd message strategy?
I am watching mel martines who just wsa elected in FL. And he sounded just like Frist and Delay. simplify the tax system, tort reform, private acounts... etc. Why cant the dems have a coordinatd message strategy?
IN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY that shields McCain from scurrilous personal attacks.
So in your opinion being a doctor and saving lives or being a teacher and educating children makes you less worthy of respect than dropping bombs.
Fucked up set of values you have there.
IN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY that shields McCain from scurrilous personal attacks.
So in your opinion being a doctor and saving lives or being a teacher and educating children makes you less worthy of respect than dropping bombs.
Fucked up set of values you have there.
As for Kerry not returning McCain's calls, I don't know if it's true, but if it is, I don't blame him.
McCain went out on the road with that asshole and helped him get another four years to fucking ruin this country.
I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd said he couldn't campaign against bush, but he campaigned for him.
He loves his party more than he loves his country.
Fuck him and all the other collaborators.
As for Kerry not returning McCain's calls, I don't know if it's true, but if it is, I don't blame him.
McCain went out on the road with that asshole and helped him get another four years to fucking ruin this country.
I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd said he couldn't campaign against bush, but he campaigned for him.
He loves his party more than he loves his country.
Fuck him and all the other collaborators.
"Look, we're at war here- we're standing at the brink of serious problems and they're standing around talking about process, adoption and other bullshit. It's fucking unreal. fourlegsgood"
How long have you been unaware of how unreal government is?
It's just about Thanksgiving. Hardly anyone is going to fight; they are about to go home.
WHAT a big fucking surprise.
--
"Look, we're at war here- we're standing at the brink of serious problems and they're standing around talking about process, adoption and other bullshit. It's fucking unreal. fourlegsgood"
How long have you been unaware of how unreal government is?
It's just about Thanksgiving. Hardly anyone is going to fight; they are about to go home.
WHAT a big fucking surprise.
--
See that's the problem. Any statement that veers from the "party line" is immediately attacked as being a troll.
No. Answering your own posts in trolling.
See that's the problem. Any statement that veers from the "party line" is immediately attacked as being a troll.
No. Answering your own posts in trolling.
Watching CSPAN2: Does Bob Graham always say so much while saying so little?
Watching CSPAN2: Does Bob Graham always say so much while saying so little?
McCain went out on the road with that asshole and helped him get another four years to fucking ruin this country.
McCain is a chameleon.
He plays a moderate to the elite press.
At the Republican convention he played the Freeper and baited Michael Moore.
There's no there there.
McCain went out on the road with that asshole and helped him get another four years to fucking ruin this country.
McCain is a chameleon.
He plays a moderate to the elite press.
At the Republican convention he played the Freeper and baited Michael Moore.
There's no there there.
But trying to take over a thread with something that GENERAL is trolling.
Be a bit more specific and maybe people will flame you less.
Okay, fair enough. Here's specific. When the SBVT ads came out, why didn't the Dems go into full all out attack mode? I mean full scale assualt. The pubs would if the tables were reversed.
Why didn't Kerry have a come to jesus message regarding Bush's trolling of the 9/11 tragedy?
And after the election, why is it we hear "we need to have values and jesus" from the Dems.
But trying to take over a thread with something that GENERAL is trolling.
Be a bit more specific and maybe people will flame you less.
Okay, fair enough. Here's specific. When the SBVT ads came out, why didn't the Dems go into full all out attack mode? I mean full scale assualt. The pubs would if the tables were reversed.
Why didn't Kerry have a come to jesus message regarding Bush's trolling of the 9/11 tragedy?
And after the election, why is it we hear "we need to have values and jesus" from the Dems.
2.77% and still falling.
"Man Date" update for 11/20/04
(use as needed for troll repellant!)
NOTE: i do this to counter the Rovian MSM spin, not to validate a seriously flawed election process.
margin: 2.77%
(DOWN again, which is pretty much what happens every day, although no media mention it. every day, with each vote counted, that Man Date just keeps getting smaller.)
current official totals:
Kerry: 57,741,634 (48.13% and rising)
Bush: 61,060,947 (50.90% and falling)
others: 1,165,188 (.97% up from last week)
nearly FIFTY-NINE MILLION Americans actively & successfully cast a vote AGAINST George W. Bush, and were lucky enough to get that vote accurately counted. so far.
turnout: 55.1% of VAP
(about 77% of those who successfully registered...so over 20% of those who registered are still AWOL--what happened to them?)
for perspective, since 1968, Richard Nixon's 2nd term run still kicks W's in the ass (60.67% of a 55.2% turnout of VAP, so no records being set there!)
popular vote wise, W is now UNDER the % his daddy got, and getting into Jimmy Carter territory (and Carter didn't have Diebold.)
George W. Bush--less loved than Nixon.
-L.
stats here:
http://tinyurl.com/5vql7
county by county Sea of Purple Tena's map here:
http://tinyurl.com/54f59
*
DISCLAIMER FOR PAUL:
this in no way implies that i don't believe there was significant voter suppression & other nastiness, nor does it imply that i believe there were no "glitches" or even outright theft of votes during "counting", nor does it imply that this is "over"--we are still fighting for a fair count, everyone should keep doing that!
www,blackboxvoting.org
www.votecobb.org
www.truthout.org
www.ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com
-L.
Mandate? MY ASS.
2.77% and still falling.
"Man Date" update for 11/20/04
(use as needed for troll repellant!)
NOTE: i do this to counter the Rovian MSM spin, not to validate a seriously flawed election process.
margin: 2.77%
(DOWN again, which is pretty much what happens every day, although no media mention it. every day, with each vote counted, that Man Date just keeps getting smaller.)
current official totals:
Kerry: 57,741,634 (48.13% and rising)
Bush: 61,060,947 (50.90% and falling)
others: 1,165,188 (.97% up from last week)
nearly FIFTY-NINE MILLION Americans actively & successfully cast a vote AGAINST George W. Bush, and were lucky enough to get that vote accurately counted. so far.
turnout: 55.1% of VAP
(about 77% of those who successfully registered...so over 20% of those who registered are still AWOL--what happened to them?)
for perspective, since 1968, Richard Nixon's 2nd term run still kicks W's in the ass (60.67% of a 55.2% turnout of VAP, so no records being set there!)
popular vote wise, W is now UNDER the % his daddy got, and getting into Jimmy Carter territory (and Carter didn't have Diebold.)
George W. Bush--less loved than Nixon.
-L.
stats here:
http://tinyurl.com/5vql7
county by county Sea of Purple Tena's map here:
http://tinyurl.com/54f59
*
DISCLAIMER FOR PAUL:
this in no way implies that i don't believe there was significant voter suppression & other nastiness, nor does it imply that i believe there were no "glitches" or even outright theft of votes during "counting", nor does it imply that this is "over"--we are still fighting for a fair count, everyone should keep doing that!
www,blackboxvoting.org
www.votecobb.org
www.truthout.org
www.ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com
-L.
Mandate? MY ASS.
"McCain went out on the road with that asshole and helped him get another four years to fucking ruin this country."
What, McCain works for Diebold? We WON the election.
"I wouldn't have blamed him"
Oh my, that must be his first concern.
" if he'd said he couldn't campaign against bush, but he campaigned for him. He loves his party more than he loves his country."
You are a FUCKING Liar. HE PROVED HOW MUCH HE LOVES THE COUNTRY, he just doesn't agree with you what that means.
McCain is being played by USPNAC, and he is certainly at a loss. Not for the first time. Fascism specializes in showing the rot inside of even the greatest politicians.
You also, many of you, ignore the threats. You act like the anthrax attempt on Daschle's life was never made, or like Paul Wellstone is still walking around.
Come out on the streets with me and face the cops and FBI, and let's stand up for what we believe in. TAKE A RISK, even a relatively small one.
Just wiggling your fingers makes you no better than a winger.
--
"McCain went out on the road with that asshole and helped him get another four years to fucking ruin this country."
What, McCain works for Diebold? We WON the election.
"I wouldn't have blamed him"
Oh my, that must be his first concern.
" if he'd said he couldn't campaign against bush, but he campaigned for him. He loves his party more than he loves his country."
You are a FUCKING Liar. HE PROVED HOW MUCH HE LOVES THE COUNTRY, he just doesn't agree with you what that means.
McCain is being played by USPNAC, and he is certainly at a loss. Not for the first time. Fascism specializes in showing the rot inside of even the greatest politicians.
You also, many of you, ignore the threats. You act like the anthrax attempt on Daschle's life was never made, or like Paul Wellstone is still walking around.
Come out on the streets with me and face the cops and FBI, and let's stand up for what we believe in. TAKE A RISK, even a relatively small one.
Just wiggling your fingers makes you no better than a winger.
--
It is NOT the surviving of torture, it is the surviving of the torture IN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY that shields McCain from scurrilous personal attacks.
So surviving torture IN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY is fundamentally different from surviving torture in the service of your religion (as you see it)?
You're fetishizing the military.
Sorry but we need a backlash against this cultishness after 9/11. If "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" hadn't been an argument used to get us into a stupid war, I'd be less likely to diss the military.
But I'm not the one who's framing the argument as support the war = support the troops and support the troops = support the war.
You may now dodge my obvious point.
It is NOT the surviving of torture, it is the surviving of the torture IN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY that shields McCain from scurrilous personal attacks.
So surviving torture IN SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY is fundamentally different from surviving torture in the service of your religion (as you see it)?
You're fetishizing the military.
Sorry but we need a backlash against this cultishness after 9/11. If "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" hadn't been an argument used to get us into a stupid war, I'd be less likely to diss the military.
But I'm not the one who's framing the argument as support the war = support the troops and support the troops = support the war.
You may now dodge my obvious point.
I am watching mel martines who just wsa elected in FL. And he sounded just like Frist and Delay. simplify the tax system, tort reform, private acounts... etc. Why cant the dems have a coordinatd message strategy?
Because they'd rather talk about process and wonkery, and call any dissenters "trolls" and "miscreants."
I am watching mel martines who just wsa elected in FL. And he sounded just like Frist and Delay. simplify the tax system, tort reform, private acounts... etc. Why cant the dems have a coordinatd message strategy?
Because they'd rather talk about process and wonkery, and call any dissenters "trolls" and "miscreants."
powerade, I ask you again..
What are you personally doing?
powerade, I ask you again..
What are you personally doing?
Back to pruning, the light is fading. I'll be back later.
--
Back to pruning, the light is fading. I'll be back later.
--
When the SBVT ads came out, why didn't the Dems go into full all out attack mode? I mean full scale assualt. The pubs would if the tables were reversed.
Because the Republicans won as soon as the Democrats joined them in the Cult of the Soldier.
Soldiers are always conservatives. That's the kind of personality who becomes a soldier.
Actors and musicians tend to be liberals.
In a saner world we need both types. But post 9/11, it's now considered socially unacceptable to question anything anybody in uniform says.
Kerry was fucked as soon as he tried to run on having served in Vietnam.
When the SBVT ads came out, why didn't the Dems go into full all out attack mode? I mean full scale assualt. The pubs would if the tables were reversed.
Because the Republicans won as soon as the Democrats joined them in the Cult of the Soldier.
Soldiers are always conservatives. That's the kind of personality who becomes a soldier.
Actors and musicians tend to be liberals.
In a saner world we need both types. But post 9/11, it's now considered socially unacceptable to question anything anybody in uniform says.
Kerry was fucked as soon as he tried to run on having served in Vietnam.
Power,
I know. These people have no answers so they must call us trolls and swear at us. I did no hear any of us say the the repubs were any good. The dems cannot play hardball-it is if they are genetically predisposed to wimpiness. Liking Dean or Clark b/c they stand up obviously makes me a troll.
Power,
I know. These people have no answers so they must call us trolls and swear at us. I did no hear any of us say the the repubs were any good. The dems cannot play hardball-it is if they are genetically predisposed to wimpiness. Liking Dean or Clark b/c they stand up obviously makes me a troll.
Spy agency reform appears dead.
jp
For that you may thank the neo-con, fascist warmongers on vonRumsfeldt's staff at the Pentagon, who were extremely reluctant to relinquish any control over their bloated, inflated, corrupt, inefficient, bastardized, off-the-books intelligence agencies...
Spy agency reform appears dead.
jp
For that you may thank the neo-con, fascist warmongers on vonRumsfeldt's staff at the Pentagon, who were extremely reluctant to relinquish any control over their bloated, inflated, corrupt, inefficient, bastardized, off-the-books intelligence agencies...
"I guess no one in neo-con land has ever read "The 7 Pillars of Wisdom" or seen Lawrence of Arabia."
Like, we really need to know about some faggy Limey dude to fight the war in Iraq. Just like we need to know about that other Limey dude Townshend's adventures in the same region. Or like we need to know about that Greek dude Xen-something running around over there 2400 years ago.
By the way, we don't read the papers either.
"I guess no one in neo-con land has ever read "The 7 Pillars of Wisdom" or seen Lawrence of Arabia."
Like, we really need to know about some faggy Limey dude to fight the war in Iraq. Just like we need to know about that other Limey dude Townshend's adventures in the same region. Or like we need to know about that Greek dude Xen-something running around over there 2400 years ago.
By the way, we don't read the papers either.
Yes, please, let's stop worshipping the troops.
Especially since a bunch of them a wacko fundamentalistss. A bunch of little fucking Boykin clones, out crusading for christ and the usa.
Feh.
Yes, please, let's stop worshipping the troops.
Especially since a bunch of them a wacko fundamentalistss. A bunch of little fucking Boykin clones, out crusading for christ and the usa.
Feh.
If Syntallic is a pimply-faced 12-year old, that says a lot about his no-holds-barred nastiness about men WE KNOW have paid pretty big prices for respect.
It can wear off, no doubt. McCain will probably retire in disgrace. But he may fool you (and W) still.
--
Paul
If Syntallic is a pimply-faced 12-year old, that says a lot about his no-holds-barred nastiness about men WE KNOW have paid pretty big prices for respect.
It can wear off, no doubt. McCain will probably retire in disgrace. But he may fool you (and W) still.
--
Paul
What are you personally doing?
Joining the local draftboard. Working with my local office holders on key issues esp w/regards to water rights. Considering running for local office if I can find a party with backbone.
et tu?
What are you personally doing?
Joining the local draftboard. Working with my local office holders on key issues esp w/regards to water rights. Considering running for local office if I can find a party with backbone.
et tu?
Live Free or Die:
Dead man walking.
Live Free or Die:
Dead man walking.
mccain is not a war hero. neither is kerry. they are just people who wound up in a war. when did we start calling all veterans "war heroes" anyway?
mccain is not a war hero. neither is kerry. they are just people who wound up in a war. when did we start calling all veterans "war heroes" anyway?
What seems to be happening is an interval.. all the action right now is backstage.
GWPDA
Thanks, GWPDA - missed the transition and thought they were still in the 10 min debate phase.
Nice discussion of McCain's demographics, BTW.
-
What seems to be happening is an interval.. all the action right now is backstage.
GWPDA
Thanks, GWPDA - missed the transition and thought they were still in the 10 min debate phase.
Nice discussion of McCain's demographics, BTW.
-
Joining the local draftboard. Working with my local office holders on key issues esp w/regards to water rights. Considering running for local office if I can find a party with backbone.
Gotta have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Your whining is pathetic.
Joining the local draftboard. Working with my local office holders on key issues esp w/regards to water rights. Considering running for local office if I can find a party with backbone.
Gotta have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Your whining is pathetic.
dead man walking?
Please explain. Does this mean you agree with me?
dead man walking?
Please explain. Does this mean you agree with me?
Praise strong and powerful dear leader:
Bush Comes to Aid of Secret Service Agent
Several Chilean and American agents got into a pushing and shoving match outside the cultural center where the dinner was held. Bush noticed the fracas after posing for pictures on a red carpet with the summit host, Chilean President Ricardo Lagos and his wife and first lady Laura Bush.
Abandoning the other three, Bush walked over to the agents, reached through the dispute and pulled his agent from the scrum.
The president, looking irritated, walked away with the agent. The incident was shown on APEC (news - web sites) television.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...cid=703&e=6&u=/
ap/20041121/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_security_fracas
Praise strong and powerful dear leader:
Bush Comes to Aid of Secret Service Agent
Several Chilean and American agents got into a pushing and shoving match outside the cultural center where the dinner was held. Bush noticed the fracas after posing for pictures on a red carpet with the summit host, Chilean President Ricardo Lagos and his wife and first lady Laura Bush.
Abandoning the other three, Bush walked over to the agents, reached through the dispute and pulled his agent from the scrum.
The president, looking irritated, walked away with the agent. The incident was shown on APEC (news - web sites) television.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...cid=703&e=6&u=/
ap/20041121/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_security_fracas
"Faggy Limey Dude"...I think I just thought of a new Ben and Jerry's flavor. Thanks, homoxeno!
"Faggy Limey Dude"...I think I just thought of a new Ben and Jerry's flavor. Thanks, homoxeno!
Power,
I know. These people have no answers so they must call us trolls and swear at us. I did no hear any of us say the the repubs were any good. The dems cannot play hardball-it is if they are genetically predisposed to wimpiness. Liking Dean or Clark b/c they stand up obviously makes me a troll.
Live Free or Die | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 7:49 pm | #
Republicans
A group of failed losers who will all be in prison by 2008.
I think not. We run all the branches of government. We make the rules. Those who don't follow the rules, are breaking the law. And ones who refuse to follow the laws set by the GOP are likely to be Democrats.
So, sorry, but you have a choice. Join the GOP now and get with the program.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:47 pm | #
Power,
I know. These people have no answers so they must call us trolls and swear at us. I did no hear any of us say the the repubs were any good. The dems cannot play hardball-it is if they are genetically predisposed to wimpiness. Liking Dean or Clark b/c they stand up obviously makes me a troll.
Live Free or Die | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 7:49 pm | #
Republicans
A group of failed losers who will all be in prison by 2008.
I think not. We run all the branches of government. We make the rules. Those who don't follow the rules, are breaking the law. And ones who refuse to follow the laws set by the GOP are likely to be Democrats.
So, sorry, but you have a choice. Join the GOP now and get with the program.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 1:47 pm | #
Soldiers are always conservatives. That's the kind of personality who becomes a soldier.
Not Wes Clark. I do think Kerry should have come out with attack ads against ONeill and crew. But Dems are too nice to have that fight.
Soldiers are always conservatives. That's the kind of personality who becomes a soldier.
Not Wes Clark. I do think Kerry should have come out with attack ads against ONeill and crew. But Dems are too nice to have that fight.
Yes, please, let's stop worshipping the troops.
There's a difference between "supporting the troops" (as in making sure they get paid and get decent health care after they get out) and "supporting the troops" by refusing to question any war they're involved in.
Reread Zell Miller's convention speach. This is a cult. If all freedom comes from the soldier than the soldier is God.
Because the last time I checked "endowed by they're creator" with certain inaliable rights did not mean "endowed by the generals" or "endowed by the barrel of a gun".
Yes, please, let's stop worshipping the troops.
There's a difference between "supporting the troops" (as in making sure they get paid and get decent health care after they get out) and "supporting the troops" by refusing to question any war they're involved in.
Reread Zell Miller's convention speach. This is a cult. If all freedom comes from the soldier than the soldier is God.
Because the last time I checked "endowed by they're creator" with certain inaliable rights did not mean "endowed by the generals" or "endowed by the barrel of a gun".
"The president, looking irritated, walked away with the agent. The incident was shown on APEC (news - web sites) television."
this is why bush won. This is what Clinton understand, but most of the others don't.
"The president, looking irritated, walked away with the agent. The incident was shown on APEC (news - web sites) television."
this is why bush won. This is what Clinton understand, but most of the others don't.
Watch CSPAN.
Ouch.
Watch CSPAN.
Ouch.
Not Wes Clark. I do think Kerry should have come out with attack ads against ONeill and crew. But Dems are too nice to have that fight.
An appeal to the cult of the military is going to benefit the Republicans by its very nature.
There's no way a liberal can become president as long as a soldier or a cop is considered more valuable to society than a schoolteacher or a doctor.
Not Wes Clark. I do think Kerry should have come out with attack ads against ONeill and crew. But Dems are too nice to have that fight.
An appeal to the cult of the military is going to benefit the Republicans by its very nature.
There's no way a liberal can become president as long as a soldier or a cop is considered more valuable to society than a schoolteacher or a doctor.
But Dems are too nice to have that fight.
powerade
Very well, you win. We're nice. Will you go away now, GOP boy?
But Dems are too nice to have that fight.
powerade
Very well, you win. We're nice. Will you go away now, GOP boy?
So, sorry, but you have a choice. Join the GOP now and get with the program.
And what else did I say? I called the Democrats Rebuplican-Lite, which they are. Why belong to the Republican-Lite party when you can join the real thing.
I also said Dean and Clark were two who could save the party, but the muddled middle will never have it.
So, sorry, but you have a choice. Join the GOP now and get with the program.
And what else did I say? I called the Democrats Rebuplican-Lite, which they are. Why belong to the Republican-Lite party when you can join the real thing.
I also said Dean and Clark were two who could save the party, but the muddled middle will never have it.
Live Free or Die, actually, you make no sense.
Live Free or Die, actually, you make no sense.
wowza, paul ... walk away and a demogogue is born ... i can assure you that I have been involved at a much higher degree than even a pissant retard like you could imagine .. yep, i am one of the elitist minds that you despise because of deep feeling of inadequacy against people with real good educations when all you got was a pink slip from the mill and enduring life lessons from the WWF ... been involved with seven major campaigns for governor or a senator and always gave my time and my ideas and my energy (never for money because quite frankly i do not need it) ... i have a couple of businesses doing quite well along with a consultation group dealing with a lot more fertile minds than the dope fiend cabal that you apparently listen to for ideas
wowza, paul ... walk away and a demogogue is born ... i can assure you that I have been involved at a much higher degree than even a pissant retard like you could imagine .. yep, i am one of the elitist minds that you despise because of deep feeling of inadequacy against people with real good educations when all you got was a pink slip from the mill and enduring life lessons from the WWF ... been involved with seven major campaigns for governor or a senator and always gave my time and my ideas and my energy (never for money because quite frankly i do not need it) ... i have a couple of businesses doing quite well along with a consultation group dealing with a lot more fertile minds than the dope fiend cabal that you apparently listen to for ideas
"There's no way a liberal can become president as long as a soldier or a cop is considered more valuable to society than a schoolteacher or a doctor.
SWR"
Red herring. NO ONE is saying that soldiers are more valuable than teachers, but the sacrifice (potential or not) that they make requires us to HONOR them.
Which mainly means not to kick them as hard as you might have originally planned.
--
"There's no way a liberal can become president as long as a soldier or a cop is considered more valuable to society than a schoolteacher or a doctor.
SWR"
Red herring. NO ONE is saying that soldiers are more valuable than teachers, but the sacrifice (potential or not) that they make requires us to HONOR them.
Which mainly means not to kick them as hard as you might have originally planned.
--
I know. These people have no answers so they must call us trolls and swear at us. I did no hear any of us say the the repubs were any good. The dems cannot play hardball-it is if they are genetically predisposed to wimpiness. Liking Dean or Clark b/c they stand up obviously makes me a troll.
They also refuse to admit that the Democrats are largely indistinguishable from the Republicans.
The Dems have one good chance if Dean and Clark are given the reigns of the party. But given the reaction here, that's unlikely to happen.
I know. These people have no answers so they must call us trolls and swear at us. I did no hear any of us say the the repubs were any good. The dems cannot play hardball-it is if they are genetically predisposed to wimpiness. Liking Dean or Clark b/c they stand up obviously makes me a troll.
They also refuse to admit that the Democrats are largely indistinguishable from the Republicans.
The Dems have one good chance if Dean and Clark are given the reigns of the party. But given the reaction here, that's unlikely to happen.
powerade (et al), look asshole, if you're too cowardly to post here and stick to your guns, then get the fuck out.
We laugh at you.
powerade (et al), look asshole, if you're too cowardly to post here and stick to your guns, then get the fuck out.
We laugh at you.
Oh, nice, you've joined the draft board. Is that so you can see that dems get drafted first?
Have you given up your plan to put us all in prison like you said on the previous thread?
I don't believe a fucking word you say.
Back to your bridge! be gone!
Oh, nice, you've joined the draft board. Is that so you can see that dems get drafted first?
Have you given up your plan to put us all in prison like you said on the previous thread?
I don't believe a fucking word you say.
Back to your bridge! be gone!
my lasting suggestion, paul .. spend an evening with speeches given by robert kennedy late in his career and measure our current leaders against the shadow he casts - it's a monolith
my lasting suggestion, paul .. spend an evening with speeches given by robert kennedy late in his career and measure our current leaders against the shadow he casts - it's a monolith
SWR,
(If we're allowed to have a real conversation)
The fetishization of Kerry's military record made me very uncomfortable, though I sort of understood why it had to happen. As I see it, military service either pushes independent thought away, ergo conservatism, or inspires individual thought, ergo liberlism. It just depends on the soldier and his or her penchant for critical thinking, trusting his or her own instincts, etc. Thus John O'Neill on one hand and John Kerry on the other.
On the other hand, the fact that Kerry had good ideas for domestic policy largely trumped the fact that he was a soldier, for me at least.
SWR,
(If we're allowed to have a real conversation)
The fetishization of Kerry's military record made me very uncomfortable, though I sort of understood why it had to happen. As I see it, military service either pushes independent thought away, ergo conservatism, or inspires individual thought, ergo liberlism. It just depends on the soldier and his or her penchant for critical thinking, trusting his or her own instincts, etc. Thus John O'Neill on one hand and John Kerry on the other.
On the other hand, the fact that Kerry had good ideas for domestic policy largely trumped the fact that he was a soldier, for me at least.
The dems just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And what was the deal with Kerry conceding w/o allt he votes counted. If the situation was reversed, do you think the Bush would concede? Or charge that there was some vote manipulation scandal?
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 5:32 pm | #
The dems just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And what was the deal with Kerry conceding w/o allt he votes counted. If the situation was reversed, do you think the Bush would concede? Or charge that there was some vote manipulation scandal?
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 5:32 pm | #
powerade (et al), look asshole, if you're too cowardly to post here and stick to your guns, then get the fuck out.
We laugh at you.
pie
or as it was said in "monty python and the holy grail": we fart in your general direction you silly piece of swine
powerade (et al), look asshole, if you're too cowardly to post here and stick to your guns, then get the fuck out.
We laugh at you.
pie
or as it was said in "monty python and the holy grail": we fart in your general direction you silly piece of swine
this is why bush won. This is what Clinton understand, but most of the others don't.
Most are looking to reach "compromise" with the GOP, that's why.
When you compromise with the far right, you are Republican regardless of what you call your party.
this is why bush won. This is what Clinton understand, but most of the others don't.
Most are looking to reach "compromise" with the GOP, that's why.
When you compromise with the far right, you are Republican regardless of what you call your party.
Have you given up your plan to put us all in prison like you said on the previous thread?
I'm sick of these losers.
You people voted for Bush or voted for a wimpy third party?
LOSER.
Have you given up your plan to put us all in prison like you said on the previous thread?
I'm sick of these losers.
You people voted for Bush or voted for a wimpy third party?
LOSER.
Paul, shut the fuck up.
You haven't got a clue what I've done or haven't done.
McCain despises Bush. He knows what an asswipe he is and he went and campaigned for him anyway. He did it after Bush and his minions trashed him and his family.
Sorry, he gets no pass from me.
Paul, shut the fuck up.
You haven't got a clue what I've done or haven't done.
McCain despises Bush. He knows what an asswipe he is and he went and campaigned for him anyway. He did it after Bush and his minions trashed him and his family.
Sorry, he gets no pass from me.
Red herring. NO ONE is saying that soldiers are more valuable than teachers, but the sacrifice (potential or not) that they make requires us to HONOR them.
Which mainly means not to kick them as hard as you might have originally planned.
It's hardly a red herring when Kerry won the Democratic nomination based on his having served in Vietnam (and everybody knows the tide turned when Jim Rassmun came on the scene).
Even people in the military don't worship people in the military. Do you think any vet had any hesitation to diss Kerry? Hardly.
If my ex Marine father can say "fuck Kerry I don't give a fuck if he was in Vietnam" don't expect the rest of us to buy into your cult.
And that's just what it is.
Red herring. NO ONE is saying that soldiers are more valuable than teachers, but the sacrifice (potential or not) that they make requires us to HONOR them.
Which mainly means not to kick them as hard as you might have originally planned.
It's hardly a red herring when Kerry won the Democratic nomination based on his having served in Vietnam (and everybody knows the tide turned when Jim Rassmun came on the scene).
Even people in the military don't worship people in the military. Do you think any vet had any hesitation to diss Kerry? Hardly.
If my ex Marine father can say "fuck Kerry I don't give a fuck if he was in Vietnam" don't expect the rest of us to buy into your cult.
And that's just what it is.
When you compromise with the far right, you are Republican regardless of what you call your party.
YOU ARE STOOPID.
When you compromise with the far right, you are Republican regardless of what you call your party.
YOU ARE STOOPID.
"wowza, paul ... walk away and a demogogue is born ... i can assure you that I have been involved at a much higher degree than even a pissant retard like you could imagine .. "
People here have many talents, including shooting their mouths off on little or no facts.
"yep, i am one of the elitist minds that you despise"
I despise? WHAT a misconception.
I am a scholar, an elitist mind if you ever met one (except perhaps in your mind). I come from a very rich family and cultural tradition of FIGHTING for freedom, including especially multicultural integration (I live in one of the most integrated cities in the world) and democracy.
"because of deep feeling of inadequacy against people with real good educations when all you got was a pink slip from the mill and enduring life lessons from the WWF ..."
WWF? Hilarious. You have missed your target by several centuries. I'm a specialist in ancient China. I'm not some Nascar cretin with a fixation on Fox.
"been involved with seven major campaigns for governor or a senator and always gave my time and my ideas and my energy (never for money because quite frankly i do not need it) ... i have a couple of businesses doing quite well along with a consultation group dealing with a lot more fertile minds than the dope fiend cabal that you apparently listen to for ideas
syntallic"
It doesn't show, syntallic.
Anyhow, though, you have missed wide in your vile attack, so if you are a political activist as you say, time to wipe the crap off your pince-nez. You're seeing things that aren't there.
--
"wowza, paul ... walk away and a demogogue is born ... i can assure you that I have been involved at a much higher degree than even a pissant retard like you could imagine .. "
People here have many talents, including shooting their mouths off on little or no facts.
"yep, i am one of the elitist minds that you despise"
I despise? WHAT a misconception.
I am a scholar, an elitist mind if you ever met one (except perhaps in your mind). I come from a very rich family and cultural tradition of FIGHTING for freedom, including especially multicultural integration (I live in one of the most integrated cities in the world) and democracy.
"because of deep feeling of inadequacy against people with real good educations when all you got was a pink slip from the mill and enduring life lessons from the WWF ..."
WWF? Hilarious. You have missed your target by several centuries. I'm a specialist in ancient China. I'm not some Nascar cretin with a fixation on Fox.
"been involved with seven major campaigns for governor or a senator and always gave my time and my ideas and my energy (never for money because quite frankly i do not need it) ... i have a couple of businesses doing quite well along with a consultation group dealing with a lot more fertile minds than the dope fiend cabal that you apparently listen to for ideas
syntallic"
It doesn't show, syntallic.
Anyhow, though, you have missed wide in your vile attack, so if you are a political activist as you say, time to wipe the crap off your pince-nez. You're seeing things that aren't there.
--
Tax Disclosure Buried in Spending Bill
WASHINGTON - Congress debated legislation Saturday giving two committee chairman and their assistants access to income tax returns without regard to privacy protections, but not before red-faced Republicans said it was all a mistake and would be swiftly repealed.
...
Some Democrats didn't accept the assertion that the provision was a mistake and demanded an investigation.
"We weren't born yesterday, we didn't come down with the first snow," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif. "This isn't poorly thought out, this was very deliberately thought out and it was done in the dead of night."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...cid=703&e=8&u=/
ap/20041121/ap_on_go_co/congress_tax_returns
What the hell is going on on c-span. I can't stand it.
Tax Disclosure Buried in Spending Bill
WASHINGTON - Congress debated legislation Saturday giving two committee chairman and their assistants access to income tax returns without regard to privacy protections, but not before red-faced Republicans said it was all a mistake and would be swiftly repealed.
...
Some Democrats didn't accept the assertion that the provision was a mistake and demanded an investigation.
"We weren't born yesterday, we didn't come down with the first snow," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif. "This isn't poorly thought out, this was very deliberately thought out and it was done in the dead of night."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...cid=703&e=8&u=/
ap/20041121/ap_on_go_co/congress_tax_returns
What the hell is going on on c-span. I can't stand it.
Um, as Marvin Martian would (or would not) say:
"Misquoting Monty Python makes me very angry!"
The quote is "I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal's food trough wiper. I...fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!"
There, I feel better now.
Um, as Marvin Martian would (or would not) say:
"Misquoting Monty Python makes me very angry!"
The quote is "I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal's food trough wiper. I...fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!"
There, I feel better now.
"I am a scholar, an elitist mind if you ever met one (except perhaps in your mind)."
I meant to write, in your mirror.
--
"I am a scholar, an elitist mind if you ever met one (except perhaps in your mind)."
I meant to write, in your mirror.
--
NYMary,
excellent analysis on the Kerry war record, because it had to happen given the world we now live in
the problem is that no one went nuts over the slander -- if i was a guy in iraq right now i'd be worrying about how all my glorious service will get played upon his return to society
piss on the vets by pissing one of their own - and it will snapback and whack them in the ass
NYMary,
excellent analysis on the Kerry war record, because it had to happen given the world we now live in
the problem is that no one went nuts over the slander -- if i was a guy in iraq right now i'd be worrying about how all my glorious service will get played upon his return to society
piss on the vets by pissing one of their own - and it will snapback and whack them in the ass
hadenough, guess you haven't been watching it.
hadenough, guess you haven't been watching it.
There's a few on here who are willing to acknowledge that the "party line" has a ton of cracks in it, and that weakness and compromise are terrible tactics at this time.
Powertroll, if you're planning to run for office, you'd better learn to construct your strawmen at little bit more convincingly than this. Cite one damn example of anyone in this thread calling for "weakness" or even "compromise," in dealing with the Bush agenda.
The fact that some may have an idea that doesn't quite mesh with yours is not prima facie evidence of weakness or compromise. That is your own perception.
Personally, I wouldn't vote for you for turd inspector at the sewage plant. Anyone that would come in here and lie about being a member of the Goofy Oafish Party just to get some attention lacks maturity, at best.
-
There's a few on here who are willing to acknowledge that the "party line" has a ton of cracks in it, and that weakness and compromise are terrible tactics at this time.
Powertroll, if you're planning to run for office, you'd better learn to construct your strawmen at little bit more convincingly than this. Cite one damn example of anyone in this thread calling for "weakness" or even "compromise," in dealing with the Bush agenda.
The fact that some may have an idea that doesn't quite mesh with yours is not prima facie evidence of weakness or compromise. That is your own perception.
Personally, I wouldn't vote for you for turd inspector at the sewage plant. Anyone that would come in here and lie about being a member of the Goofy Oafish Party just to get some attention lacks maturity, at best.
-
he dems just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And what was the deal with Kerry conceding w/o allt he votes counted. If the situation was reversed, do you think the Bush would concede? Or charge that there was some vote manipulation scandal?
The Dems here will say it was because Kerry didn't want to create a media firestorm. Yet they claim to be the opposition.
Kerry conceded to a fraudelent election, and didn't even bother to demand an investigation. Instead, the Greens, the Libertarians, and Nader are left to try to save the day.
Weak. Pathetic.
he dems just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And what was the deal with Kerry conceding w/o allt he votes counted. If the situation was reversed, do you think the Bush would concede? Or charge that there was some vote manipulation scandal?
The Dems here will say it was because Kerry didn't want to create a media firestorm. Yet they claim to be the opposition.
Kerry conceded to a fraudelent election, and didn't even bother to demand an investigation. Instead, the Greens, the Libertarians, and Nader are left to try to save the day.
Weak. Pathetic.
Personally, I wouldn't vote for you for turd inspector at the sewage plant.
Beautiful.
Personally, I wouldn't vote for you for turd inspector at the sewage plant.
Beautiful.
Karl Rove gets no sex.
Pathetic.
Karl Rove gets no sex.
Pathetic.
"It's hardly a red herring when Kerry won the Democratic nomination based on his having served in Vietnam"
An untrue assertion. Kerry has SENIORITY.
Dean was a governor, bully, but Kerry has 20 years in the top seats of government. Yielding to Kerry was NOT over his service.
--
"It's hardly a red herring when Kerry won the Democratic nomination based on his having served in Vietnam"
An untrue assertion. Kerry has SENIORITY.
Dean was a governor, bully, but Kerry has 20 years in the top seats of government. Yielding to Kerry was NOT over his service.
--
And what else did I say? I called the Democrats Rebuplican-Lite, which they are. Why belong to the Republican-Lite party when you can join the real thing.
Great plan! leave behind the party that's wrong occasionally and join the party that's always FUCKING wrong.
Why what a sensible idea? why didn't I think of that?
Asshat.
And what else did I say? I called the Democrats Rebuplican-Lite, which they are. Why belong to the Republican-Lite party when you can join the real thing.
Great plan! leave behind the party that's wrong occasionally and join the party that's always FUCKING wrong.
Why what a sensible idea? why didn't I think of that?
Asshat.
On the other hand, the fact that Kerry had good ideas for domestic policy largely trumped the fact that he was a soldier, for me at least.
The problem was this mystical worship of the soldier.
Kerry was very different from Clark. Clark actually had national security credentials.
Kerry served as a junior officer in Vietnam 30 years ago.
So it's rational to say "well since Clark brought down Milosovic he might know something about national security".
But it's cultish to say that "since Kerry at one time wore a uniform he's part of some special race of people who's qualfied to talk about national security".
That's why the Republicans ate Kerry alive. It had nothing to do with his "lack of willingness to fight". What lack of willingness. He hit Bush as hard as Bush hit him.
But it had a lot to do with his irrational position. He was telling us to vote for him because he was a vet not because of what he was saying.
And that attitude in and of itself helps the right (even when they have a draft dodger at the head of the ticket).
On the other hand, the fact that Kerry had good ideas for domestic policy largely trumped the fact that he was a soldier, for me at least.
The problem was this mystical worship of the soldier.
Kerry was very different from Clark. Clark actually had national security credentials.
Kerry served as a junior officer in Vietnam 30 years ago.
So it's rational to say "well since Clark brought down Milosovic he might know something about national security".
But it's cultish to say that "since Kerry at one time wore a uniform he's part of some special race of people who's qualfied to talk about national security".
That's why the Republicans ate Kerry alive. It had nothing to do with his "lack of willingness to fight". What lack of willingness. He hit Bush as hard as Bush hit him.
But it had a lot to do with his irrational position. He was telling us to vote for him because he was a vet not because of what he was saying.
And that attitude in and of itself helps the right (even when they have a draft dodger at the head of the ticket).
Paul, Power:
Notice how well these people swear. Instead of actually listening to us and showing where we are wrong, they foam at the mouth. Hey pie-thanks for the heads up at CSPAN.
Paul, Power:
Notice how well these people swear. Instead of actually listening to us and showing where we are wrong, they foam at the mouth. Hey pie-thanks for the heads up at CSPAN.
YOU ARE STOOPID.
Brilliant! So you're saying that compromising with the far right is the proper course of action. Well continue to give them what they want. In the end it's all Republican all the time.
It doesn't get any clearer than that.
Hey pie-thanks for the heads up at CSPAN.
You mean you're watching?
Wow.
YOU ARE STOOPID.
Brilliant! So you're saying that compromising with the far right is the proper course of action. Well continue to give them what they want. In the end it's all Republican all the time.
It doesn't get any clearer than that.
Hey pie-thanks for the heads up at CSPAN.
You mean you're watching?
Wow.
So pie,
are you hooked up or what?
So pie,
are you hooked up or what?
pie,
Yes I have!
What the hell are they doing?
Why won't they vote on the bill?
Why are only dems wasting time yaking?
Is it some plan or are they just deflating before the holiday?
pie,
Yes I have!
What the hell are they doing?
Why won't they vote on the bill?
Why are only dems wasting time yaking?
Is it some plan or are they just deflating before the holiday?
An untrue assertion. Kerry has SENIORITY.
Seniority doesn't win primaries. Kerry won the primary because he brought Jim Rassmun out on stage to call him a war hero.
Yes, he was better organized and the Democratic establishment didn't trust Dean but you'd be a fool to deny that Kerry wasn't running on his military record and that it was as effective in the primary in Iowa as it was ineffective in the general election.
seen this yet?
Via Needlenose.
An untrue assertion. Kerry has SENIORITY.
Seniority doesn't win primaries. Kerry won the primary because he brought Jim Rassmun out on stage to call him a war hero.
Yes, he was better organized and the Democratic establishment didn't trust Dean but you'd be a fool to deny that Kerry wasn't running on his military record and that it was as effective in the primary in Iowa as it was ineffective in the general election.
seen this yet?
Via Needlenose.
So you're saying that compromising with...
Go away.
So you're saying that compromising with...
Go away.
piss on the vets by pissing one of their own - and it will snapback and whack them in the ass
syntallic
Was it Bill Maher who asked O'Neill flat out if it was worth slandering a fellow vet in order to elect someone who'd evaded service altogether? I think so. As I recall, he had no answer, but then of course he's been on someone's payroll to do just this for 30-odd years.
I have little respect for veterans,(scandal!). Some are genuinely good people, some vitriolic scumbags. Like any other group. In my generation, and most of yours too, I'll bet, most people joined the military for the college fund, not because they were true believers.
piss on the vets by pissing one of their own - and it will snapback and whack them in the ass
syntallic
Was it Bill Maher who asked O'Neill flat out if it was worth slandering a fellow vet in order to elect someone who'd evaded service altogether? I think so. As I recall, he had no answer, but then of course he's been on someone's payroll to do just this for 30-odd years.
I have little respect for veterans,(scandal!). Some are genuinely good people, some vitriolic scumbags. Like any other group. In my generation, and most of yours too, I'll bet, most people joined the military for the college fund, not because they were true believers.
Those little flags? US military bases.
Even got my tags closed that time.
Those little flags? US military bases.
Even got my tags closed that time.
the problem is that no one went nuts over the slander -- if i was a guy in iraq right now i'd be worrying about how all my glorious service will get played upon his return to society
Nope. I hear from my fundie student worker that the troops largely bought the swift boat lies.
She told me she just wasn't comfortable voting for Kerry cause he recommended himself for all those medals and that just wasn't right.
I slammed a huge report on my desk and pretty much yelled at her to grow up and start thinking for herself.
Scared the crap out of her. ( I was a little sorry, but not much.)
the problem is that no one went nuts over the slander -- if i was a guy in iraq right now i'd be worrying about how all my glorious service will get played upon his return to society
Nope. I hear from my fundie student worker that the troops largely bought the swift boat lies.
She told me she just wasn't comfortable voting for Kerry cause he recommended himself for all those medals and that just wasn't right.
I slammed a huge report on my desk and pretty much yelled at her to grow up and start thinking for herself.
Scared the crap out of her. ( I was a little sorry, but not much.)
Was it Bill Maher who asked O'Neill flat out if it was worth slandering a fellow vet in order to elect someone who'd evaded service altogether?
It worked.
Was it Bill Maher who asked O'Neill flat out if it was worth slandering a fellow vet in order to elect someone who'd evaded service altogether?
It worked.
ancient china, eh, paul?
if you weren't such an utter dank and clueless animal, you probably could distinguish alterego from outrage ... and I'd prefer that my background doesn't show out here ... like it freakin matters anyways .. but to double check ...
what cultural endeavors for freedom are you affiliated with (please don't tell me it's the Club for Growth or the Matthew Lesko book for free stuff from government)
and what is the strategic game that the chinese play? it has been handed down since ancient times ... i'll check back later tonite .. cuz i'm on my way to a fundraiser this evening in santa monica
ciao, bitch .. cultural endeavors for sure
ancient china, eh, paul?
if you weren't such an utter dank and clueless animal, you probably could distinguish alterego from outrage ... and I'd prefer that my background doesn't show out here ... like it freakin matters anyways .. but to double check ...
what cultural endeavors for freedom are you affiliated with (please don't tell me it's the Club for Growth or the Matthew Lesko book for free stuff from government)
and what is the strategic game that the chinese play? it has been handed down since ancient times ... i'll check back later tonite .. cuz i'm on my way to a fundraiser this evening in santa monica
ciao, bitch .. cultural endeavors for sure
Notice how well these people swear. Instead of actually listening to us and showing where we are wrong, they foam at the mouth.
Yep. fourletterwordsgood.
Notice how well these people swear. Instead of actually listening to us and showing where we are wrong, they foam at the mouth.
Yep. fourletterwordsgood.
"Kerry conceded to a fraudelent election, and didn't even bother to demand an investigation."
Didn't 'bother.' Since there are no THREATS in your worldview, what are you worried about?
"Instead, the Greens, the Libertarians, and Nader are left to try to save the day."
Untrue. The reason the Ohio Recount has a chance is because people here and Dems around the country pitched in. MoveOn gave a BIG chunk, as I hear it.
'Saving the day' is pretty much hopeless, so let's not kid ourselves. We are trying now to shorten the night.
Exposing vote fraud, and working state by state to eliminate it, so we CAN get our votes counted, is going to take SOLIDARITY. And Dems are in the fight, you cannot say we aren't.
I can pretty much say that few in the country have protested and struggled as much as I in the last three years, a liberal Democrat who has never voted outside the party. I started protesting at the age of 12. We lib Dems have been in this fight right on through.
--
hadenough, ya watchin'?
Nader's not an option.
"Kerry conceded to a fraudelent election, and didn't even bother to demand an investigation."
Didn't 'bother.' Since there are no THREATS in your worldview, what are you worried about?
"Instead, the Greens, the Libertarians, and Nader are left to try to save the day."
Untrue. The reason the Ohio Recount has a chance is because people here and Dems around the country pitched in. MoveOn gave a BIG chunk, as I hear it.
'Saving the day' is pretty much hopeless, so let's not kid ourselves. We are trying now to shorten the night.
Exposing vote fraud, and working state by state to eliminate it, so we CAN get our votes counted, is going to take SOLIDARITY. And Dems are in the fight, you cannot say we aren't.
I can pretty much say that few in the country have protested and struggled as much as I in the last three years, a liberal Democrat who has never voted outside the party. I started protesting at the age of 12. We lib Dems have been in this fight right on through.
--
hadenough, ya watchin'?
Nader's not an option.
Life (and its debates) are full of different forms of expression. Swearing usually shows up when you are frustrated at either the stupidity of the person with whom you are debating or your own inablity to capably counter an argument and not wanting to concede. Which is it? --not that you'll 'fess up.
You see the blowhard fundies all the time resorting to @%$#! and then saying "God Bless You" as their sign-off. Gotta love the poignant contrasts!
Life (and its debates) are full of different forms of expression. Swearing usually shows up when you are frustrated at either the stupidity of the person with whom you are debating or your own inablity to capably counter an argument and not wanting to concede. Which is it? --not that you'll 'fess up.
You see the blowhard fundies all the time resorting to @%$#! and then saying "God Bless You" as their sign-off. Gotta love the poignant contrasts!
hadenouf- I think they're working out some kind of compromise in the back room.
They don't have enough of a quorum to vote on the bill.
The only compromise I'll except is one that takes the fucking language out.
hadenouf- I think they're working out some kind of compromise in the back room.
They don't have enough of a quorum to vote on the bill.
The only compromise I'll except is one that takes the fucking language out.
Nope. I hear from my fundie student worker that the troops largely bought the swift boat lies.
My (ex Marine) father was voting for Kerry until the Swift Boat campaign came out. Then he wheeled 180 degrees and voted for Bush.
I've never been in the military but those Swift Boat guys simply understood the military mind in a way Kerry and Lockhart and Carville didn't.
I hate to say it but say "Jane Fonda" enough times and any vet is going to buy uncritically into anything that comes after it.
Nope. I hear from my fundie student worker that the troops largely bought the swift boat lies.
My (ex Marine) father was voting for Kerry until the Swift Boat campaign came out. Then he wheeled 180 degrees and voted for Bush.
I've never been in the military but those Swift Boat guys simply understood the military mind in a way Kerry and Lockhart and Carville didn't.
I hate to say it but say "Jane Fonda" enough times and any vet is going to buy uncritically into anything that comes after it.
"and what is the strategic game that the chinese play? it has been handed down since ancient times"
You are probably talking about Go, the Japanese game.
--
"and what is the strategic game that the chinese play? it has been handed down since ancient times"
You are probably talking about Go, the Japanese game.
--
Bush Comes to Aid of Secret Service Agent
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 7:53 p.m. ET
SANTIAGO, Chile (AP) -- President Bush stepped into the middle of a confrontation and pulled his lead Secret Service agent away from Chilean security officials who barred his bodyguards from entering an elegant dinner for 21 world leaders Saturday night.
Several Chilean and American agents got into a pushing and shoving match outside the cultural center where the dinner was held. Bush noticed the fracas after posing for pictures on a red carpet with the summit host, Chilean President Ricardo Lagos and his wife and first lady Laura Bush.
Abandoning the other three, Bush walked over to the agents, reached through the dispute and pulled his agent from the scrum.
The president, looking irritated, walked away with the agent. The incident was shown on APEC television.
``Chilean security tried to stop the president's Secret Service from accompanying him,'' said White House deputy press secretary Claire Buchan. ``He told them they were with him and the issue was resolved.''
i'm thinkin' the chilean security dudes were just fucking with duhbya -- there's no friggin way they weren't aware this guy was secret service and always accompanies the prez
Bush Comes to Aid of Secret Service Agent
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 7:53 p.m. ET
SANTIAGO, Chile (AP) -- President Bush stepped into the middle of a confrontation and pulled his lead Secret Service agent away from Chilean security officials who barred his bodyguards from entering an elegant dinner for 21 world leaders Saturday night.
Several Chilean and American agents got into a pushing and shoving match outside the cultural center where the dinner was held. Bush noticed the fracas after posing for pictures on a red carpet with the summit host, Chilean President Ricardo Lagos and his wife and first lady Laura Bush.
Abandoning the other three, Bush walked over to the agents, reached through the dispute and pulled his agent from the scrum.
The president, looking irritated, walked away with the agent. The incident was shown on APEC television.
``Chilean security tried to stop the president's Secret Service from accompanying him,'' said White House deputy press secretary Claire Buchan. ``He told them they were with him and the issue was resolved.''
i'm thinkin' the chilean security dudes were just fucking with duhbya -- there's no friggin way they weren't aware this guy was secret service and always accompanies the prez
I dropped my knitting needle. I hate when I do that. Last time it took me two days to find it.
Don't leave me!
I dropped my knitting needle. I hate when I do that. Last time it took me two days to find it.
Don't leave me!
Yes pie,
I like to watch cspan. I call occasinally on the other line.
Yes pie,
I like to watch cspan. I call occasinally on the other line.
It worked.
SWR
So it seems. Maybe that's why the trolls come here, because they're ashamed of themselves. It's crucial that this be our loss, not their filth. Great.
It worked.
SWR
So it seems. Maybe that's why the trolls come here, because they're ashamed of themselves. It's crucial that this be our loss, not their filth. Great.
nader?
From yahoo:
"Finance Committee Chairman Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, said the measure will "bring us back to the doorstep to the days of President Nixon, President Truman and other dark days in our history when taxpayer information was used against political enemies." "
They can't pass it like that.
nader?
From yahoo:
"Finance Committee Chairman Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, said the measure will "bring us back to the doorstep to the days of President Nixon, President Truman and other dark days in our history when taxpayer information was used against political enemies." "
They can't pass it like that.
mccain is not a war hero. neither is kerry. they are just people who wound up in a war. when did we start calling all veterans "war heroes" anyway?
Olaf glad and big
Don't be silly. No one is calling "all veterans" war heroes. Neither McCain nor Kerry is a typical veteran.
mccain is not a war hero. neither is kerry. they are just people who wound up in a war. when did we start calling all veterans "war heroes" anyway?
Olaf glad and big
Don't be silly. No one is calling "all veterans" war heroes. Neither McCain nor Kerry is a typical veteran.
Cat killer is saying they're going to pass a continuing resolution and take the language out.
It better fucking come out.
Cat killer is saying they're going to pass a continuing resolution and take the language out.
It better fucking come out.
So it seems. Maybe that's why the trolls come here, because they're ashamed of themselves. It's crucial that this be our loss, not their filth. Great.
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:17 pm | #
I honestly have nothing against vets. My father served in Vietnam and my grandfather served in World War II. Neither is a career soldier but both base a big part of their identity on it.
And I swear to God that Swift Boat campaign was like a power drug. Whatever it is that makes people base their identity on military service also made it impossible to vote for any soldier who was ever an anti-war protester.
Both voted for Clinton, btw.
So it seems. Maybe that's why the trolls come here, because they're ashamed of themselves. It's crucial that this be our loss, not their filth. Great.
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:17 pm | #
I honestly have nothing against vets. My father served in Vietnam and my grandfather served in World War II. Neither is a career soldier but both base a big part of their identity on it.
And I swear to God that Swift Boat campaign was like a power drug. Whatever it is that makes people base their identity on military service also made it impossible to vote for any soldier who was ever an anti-war protester.
Both voted for Clinton, btw.
SWR,
My (ex-Marine) father didn't buy it for a second. But he's one of those guys who retired from the military-industrial complex, grew a beard, got religion, and started building housing for the poor. Hasn't worn a tie since 1987.
SWR,
My (ex-Marine) father didn't buy it for a second. But he's one of those guys who retired from the military-industrial complex, grew a beard, got religion, and started building housing for the poor. Hasn't worn a tie since 1987.
"Was it Bill Maher who asked O'Neill flat out if it was worth slandering a fellow vet in order to elect someone who'd evaded service altogether?
It worked.
SWR"
No, it didn't. We WON by landslide. Diebold can flip 10 million votes just like you can switch the lights.
For all the your-USMC dads, there were military people who weren't fooled, who voted for Kerry. I met many of them during my protests, and stood next to several while they too protested the USPNAC criminal negligence in the handling of our troops.
There are a lot of military who do not resemble jarheads.
I have also met quite a few jarheads who admit to and brag about their warcrimes. They may be military, but they aren't professional soldiers.
--
"Was it Bill Maher who asked O'Neill flat out if it was worth slandering a fellow vet in order to elect someone who'd evaded service altogether?
It worked.
SWR"
No, it didn't. We WON by landslide. Diebold can flip 10 million votes just like you can switch the lights.
For all the your-USMC dads, there were military people who weren't fooled, who voted for Kerry. I met many of them during my protests, and stood next to several while they too protested the USPNAC criminal negligence in the handling of our troops.
There are a lot of military who do not resemble jarheads.
I have also met quite a few jarheads who admit to and brag about their warcrimes. They may be military, but they aren't professional soldiers.
--
Finance Committee Chairman Charles Grassley, R-Iowa
Charles, the people of Iowa will kick your ass if you let them down.
Finance Committee Chairman Charles Grassley, R-Iowa
Charles, the people of Iowa will kick your ass if you let them down.
Untrue. The reason the Ohio Recount has a chance is because people here and Dems around the country pitched in. MoveOn gave a BIG chunk, as I hear it.
Correction, individuals who happen to be Dems helped contribute to the $150k needed for the recount. But it was the Greens and Libs who demanded the recount, not the Dems.
Kerry, the DNC, and the Dem Leadership didn't lift a finger to help.
Untrue. The reason the Ohio Recount has a chance is because people here and Dems around the country pitched in. MoveOn gave a BIG chunk, as I hear it.
Correction, individuals who happen to be Dems helped contribute to the $150k needed for the recount. But it was the Greens and Libs who demanded the recount, not the Dems.
Kerry, the DNC, and the Dem Leadership didn't lift a finger to help.
powerade, how's this?
Go. Fuck. Your. Self.
If you can find your prick. A troll who comes here and says that all dems will be in prison by 2008 has no business whining about anyone's language.
powerade, how's this?
Go. Fuck. Your. Self.
If you can find your prick. A troll who comes here and says that all dems will be in prison by 2008 has no business whining about anyone's language.
my lasting suggestion, paul .. spend an evening with speeches given by robert kennedy late in his career and measure our current leaders against the shadow he casts - it's a monolith
syntallic
Amen.. I reread the Schlesinger bio every couple of years just to remind myself of what a politician can be.
There still are good people trying to do good things, and there will be more to come. It's important to come together and get behind them when they try.
-
my lasting suggestion, paul .. spend an evening with speeches given by robert kennedy late in his career and measure our current leaders against the shadow he casts - it's a monolith
syntallic
Amen.. I reread the Schlesinger bio every couple of years just to remind myself of what a politician can be.
There still are good people trying to do good things, and there will be more to come. It's important to come together and get behind them when they try.
-
SWR,
My (ex-Marine) father didn't buy it for a second.
My father mounted a Marine Corps thingee on the hood of his SUV and subscribes to "Leatherneck".
SWR,
My (ex-Marine) father didn't buy it for a second.
My father mounted a Marine Corps thingee on the hood of his SUV and subscribes to "Leatherneck".
powerade, you're pathetic.
powerade, you're pathetic.
So are the dems going to fight or compromise?
So are the dems going to fight or compromise?
So are the dems going to fight or compromise?
Better pick a new name.
No one cares what you think.
No, it didn't.
Whatever. My father voted for Johnson, Humphrey, and then didn't vote (he couldn't vote for Nixon or McGovern), Carter, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore and Bush.
It worked on him. That's all I know.
So are the dems going to fight or compromise?
Better pick a new name.
No one cares what you think.
No, it didn't.
Whatever. My father voted for Johnson, Humphrey, and then didn't vote (he couldn't vote for Nixon or McGovern), Carter, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore and Bush.
It worked on him. That's all I know.
So it seems. Maybe that's why the trolls come here, because they're ashamed of themselves. It's crucial that this be our loss, not their filth. Great.
NYMary
No Mary, they come here because they're evil wankers who can't resist being vicious and hateful.
Ever notice how they all talk about "imposing their will" and "crushing the dems" and "now you'll suffer"....
Nothing about how the country will be better off. Only about how they, personally, will be better off.
That's the real difference between us and them. Make no mistake, that's it.
So it seems. Maybe that's why the trolls come here, because they're ashamed of themselves. It's crucial that this be our loss, not their filth. Great.
NYMary
No Mary, they come here because they're evil wankers who can't resist being vicious and hateful.
Ever notice how they all talk about "imposing their will" and "crushing the dems" and "now you'll suffer"....
Nothing about how the country will be better off. Only about how they, personally, will be better off.
That's the real difference between us and them. Make no mistake, that's it.
Paul I was very much under the impression that Go is originally a Chinese game, or at least one that came to China from central Asia.
Paul I was very much under the impression that Go is originally a Chinese game, or at least one that came to China from central Asia.
What a relief to see Daschle there.
It's gonna take while to get use to the new guy.
What a relief to see Daschle there.
It's gonna take while to get use to the new guy.
My father mounted a Marine Corps thingee on the hood of his SUV and subscribes to "Leatherneck".
SWR
Ack! Does he still have a crew cut?
But then my dad was drafted into the Marines, whih is technically not supposed to happen. But while he was waiting for his draft physical in 195, the Marines came in and culled a bunch of guys from the Army. Same time commitment, better pay, so he went with the USMC. So maybe not so representative.
My father mounted a Marine Corps thingee on the hood of his SUV and subscribes to "Leatherneck".
SWR
Ack! Does he still have a crew cut?
But then my dad was drafted into the Marines, whih is technically not supposed to happen. But while he was waiting for his draft physical in 195, the Marines came in and culled a bunch of guys from the Army. Same time commitment, better pay, so he went with the USMC. So maybe not so representative.
I have also met quite a few jarheads
I'm not talking about 20 year old "jarheads," I'm talking about over 50 men who base a large part of their identity on having served in the military.
You know, nice suburban guys with houses and grandkids.
They couldn't vote for an anti-war protester. They would have voted for Dean or Clinton or any Democrat who didn't come out and protest the war.
And I'm assuming a lot of men like this live in Ohio and Florida (especially Florida).
I have also met quite a few jarheads
I'm not talking about 20 year old "jarheads," I'm talking about over 50 men who base a large part of their identity on having served in the military.
You know, nice suburban guys with houses and grandkids.
They couldn't vote for an anti-war protester. They would have voted for Dean or Clinton or any Democrat who didn't come out and protest the war.
And I'm assuming a lot of men like this live in Ohio and Florida (especially Florida).
"I'll bet, most people joined the military for the college fund, not because they were true believers.
NYMary"
WHY they joined is not particularly important, IF they were in combat, and kept to their oath.
I know a lot of people don't understand the military sacrifice -- I protest next to peaceniks, many of whom see no reason for a military.
Sometimes a child needs to leave the light on. The rest of us work on, even in the darkness of the facts.
--
"I'll bet, most people joined the military for the college fund, not because they were true believers.
NYMary"
WHY they joined is not particularly important, IF they were in combat, and kept to their oath.
I know a lot of people don't understand the military sacrifice -- I protest next to peaceniks, many of whom see no reason for a military.
Sometimes a child needs to leave the light on. The rest of us work on, even in the darkness of the facts.
--
SWR, I'm sure your dad isn't the only one.
They lied and got away with it. I wish O'Neill would get hit by a meteor.
SWR, I'm sure your dad isn't the only one.
They lied and got away with it. I wish O'Neill would get hit by a meteor.
Damn, I wish I could type. That was 1952.
Damn, I wish I could type. That was 1952.
Kerry, the DNC, and the Dem Leadership didn't lift a finger to help.
You shore do talk funny fer a Republican who said this earlier today:
This is reality. It's win or lose. No more handouts. No more social welfare. If you earn it, you keep it. If you don't have anything, who cares, that's your fault, not mine. Personal responsibility.
The liberal experiment failed. We are an ownership society and I am going to own all I can.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:06 pm | #
You aren't related to Reagan Democrat, are you?
Kerry, the DNC, and the Dem Leadership didn't lift a finger to help.
You shore do talk funny fer a Republican who said this earlier today:
This is reality. It's win or lose. No more handouts. No more social welfare. If you earn it, you keep it. If you don't have anything, who cares, that's your fault, not mine. Personal responsibility.
The liberal experiment failed. We are an ownership society and I am going to own all I can.
powerade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 2:06 pm | #
You aren't related to Reagan Democrat, are you?
Paul,
I guess. But there's a difference between someone who felt they owed it to their country to serve (eg, Kerry), and someone who spent two years in the 80's smoking hash in Germany (eg, my cousin, who was not alone).
Paul,
I guess. But there's a difference between someone who felt they owed it to their country to serve (eg, Kerry), and someone who spent two years in the 80's smoking hash in Germany (eg, my cousin, who was not alone).
"They couldn't vote for an anti-war protester."
If they can vote for a lying coward traitor, it's hardly an argument for anything other than being fools.
But, the military culture is being changed daily as we speak, and even in this last election, many many military votes for Kerry.
You might remember military families who were very angry about civilian authority after Vietnam.
Get ready for a tidalwave of anger at civilian authority, and certain generals as well.
--
"They couldn't vote for an anti-war protester."
If they can vote for a lying coward traitor, it's hardly an argument for anything other than being fools.
But, the military culture is being changed daily as we speak, and even in this last election, many many military votes for Kerry.
You might remember military families who were very angry about civilian authority after Vietnam.
Get ready for a tidalwave of anger at civilian authority, and certain generals as well.
--
SWR, I'm sure your dad isn't the only one.
They lied and got away with it. I wish O'Neill would get hit by a meteor.
fourlegsgood | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:28 pm | #
It was fucking scary.
He's not stupid. Before the Swift Boat campaign came out, he hated Bush. He hates Reagan to this day (because Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union).
But bang, as soon as the Swift Boat campaign came out, he was willing to believe anything bad about Kerry, anything.
He's still convinced Kerry was more likely to bring back the draft than Bush and he's still convinced he slept with Jane Fonda.
It was eerie. And I don't even think it was Kerry's wealth or aristocatic bearing (since he voted for Tom Kean and Jon Corzine).
yea power,
If the exit polls in the red and blue states were accurate, and the exit polls in the purple states were supposedly way off-all tilted towards Kerry, it eould seem that the prudent thing to do would be to challenge it. But repubs kept on urging that kerry concede, and he did. Repubs would have never done that. I was in FL in 2000 when the whole elelction thing went down, and at least Gore waited b4 conceding.
SWR, I'm sure your dad isn't the only one.
They lied and got away with it. I wish O'Neill would get hit by a meteor.
fourlegsgood | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:28 pm | #
It was fucking scary.
He's not stupid. Before the Swift Boat campaign came out, he hated Bush. He hates Reagan to this day (because Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union).
But bang, as soon as the Swift Boat campaign came out, he was willing to believe anything bad about Kerry, anything.
He's still convinced Kerry was more likely to bring back the draft than Bush and he's still convinced he slept with Jane Fonda.
It was eerie. And I don't even think it was Kerry's wealth or aristocatic bearing (since he voted for Tom Kean and Jon Corzine).
yea power,
If the exit polls in the red and blue states were accurate, and the exit polls in the purple states were supposedly way off-all tilted towards Kerry, it eould seem that the prudent thing to do would be to challenge it. But repubs kept on urging that kerry concede, and he did. Repubs would have never done that. I was in FL in 2000 when the whole elelction thing went down, and at least Gore waited b4 conceding.
Any suggestions for a bitter, old woman looking for hobbies? My children are concerned that I am spending too much time in my fantasy world.
Ohhh, where did I put that knitting needle?
Any suggestions for a bitter, old woman looking for hobbies? My children are concerned that I am spending too much time in my fantasy world.
Ohhh, where did I put that knitting needle?
If anyone has the Holy Grail, can you please send it to Sen Byrd so he can continue to kick major ass in the Senate for years to come?
If anyone has the Holy Grail, can you please send it to Sen Byrd so he can continue to kick major ass in the Senate for years to come?
Why does Atrios hate democracy?
Why does Atrios hate democracy?
Knitting needles? You're looking for knitting needles?
/s
Mme. DeFarge
Knitting needles? You're looking for knitting needles?
/s
Mme. DeFarge
The real question is, why do trolls fixate on pie?
The real question is, why do trolls fixate on pie?
But repubs kept on urging that kerry concede, and he did. Repubs would have never done that. I was in FL in 2000 when the whole elelction thing went down, and at least Gore waited b4 conceding.
Live Free or Die | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:31 pm | #
Gore conceded on the night of th election and retracted it when it became apparent that Florida was to close to call.
I do so wish people new wtf they were talking about when it comes to making concessions in elections.
They're almost always made the night of the election, before all the votes are counted.
I swear, people just love to make up reasons to exclaim the perfidy of Democrats.
But repubs kept on urging that kerry concede, and he did. Repubs would have never done that. I was in FL in 2000 when the whole elelction thing went down, and at least Gore waited b4 conceding.
Live Free or Die | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:31 pm | #
Gore conceded on the night of th election and retracted it when it became apparent that Florida was to close to call.
I do so wish people new wtf they were talking about when it comes to making concessions in elections.
They're almost always made the night of the election, before all the votes are counted.
I swear, people just love to make up reasons to exclaim the perfidy of Democrats.
"Paul,
I guess. But there's a difference between someone who felt they owed it to their country to serve (eg, Kerry), and someone who spent two years in the 80's smoking hash in Germany (eg, my cousin, who was not alone).
NYMary"
Well, yeah, Mary, but I'm defending John McCain, not some dude in a cut with a bunk in Germany. He was tortured for his country, in combat service, in the shit.
A lot of people want to score political points dinging our combat vets. Not I. I would actually prefer they didn't go into politics, because of that. Indeed, many haven't.
Snarking on the combat vets is really bad karma. The 100,000s of permanent casualties in the first GW, and the 10,000s of permanent casualties in this FU, will be sleeping on our streets in five years. Their suffering will not end; they will have to hump that backpack of guilt for their entire lives.
--
"Paul,
I guess. But there's a difference between someone who felt they owed it to their country to serve (eg, Kerry), and someone who spent two years in the 80's smoking hash in Germany (eg, my cousin, who was not alone).
NYMary"
Well, yeah, Mary, but I'm defending John McCain, not some dude in a cut with a bunk in Germany. He was tortured for his country, in combat service, in the shit.
A lot of people want to score political points dinging our combat vets. Not I. I would actually prefer they didn't go into politics, because of that. Indeed, many haven't.
Snarking on the combat vets is really bad karma. The 100,000s of permanent casualties in the first GW, and the 10,000s of permanent casualties in this FU, will be sleeping on our streets in five years. Their suffering will not end; they will have to hump that backpack of guilt for their entire lives.
--
pie:
Ohhh, where did I put that knitting needle?
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:31 pm
What do you think is the median age hereabouts? late-40-something?
pie:
Ohhh, where did I put that knitting needle?
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:31 pm
What do you think is the median age hereabouts? late-40-something?
Bryd summary: When I was chairman, things didn't suck like this, jerkoff from Tennessee.
Bryd summary: When I was chairman, things didn't suck like this, jerkoff from Tennessee.
We ain't sorry, frenchies
https://home.comcast.net/
~treehou...weaintsorry.htm
We ain't sorry, frenchies
https://home.comcast.net/
~treehou...weaintsorry.htm
The royals:
ANTIGUA, Guatemala (Reuters) - A U.S. congressman married the daughter of Guatemala's most notorious former dictator on Saturday in a controversial wedding that took place in a high-walled compound ringed with razor wire.
Illinois Rep. Jerry Weller (R) (news, bio, voting record) tied the knot with Guatemalan lawmaker Zury Rios Sosa in the compound, just off a dusty road between a building site and a volcano near Guatemala's colonial capital Antigua.
...
She is a high ranking member of her father's Guatemalan Republican Front party, which held the presidency between 2000-2004, and is seen as a possible future presidential candidate herself.
The retired general's de facto presidency is remembered for his weekly sermons broadcast live on television and for a "scorched earth" campaign that killed thousands of mostly civilian Mayan Indians.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...id=1896&e=7&u=/
nm/people_guatemala_usa_dc
The royals:
ANTIGUA, Guatemala (Reuters) - A U.S. congressman married the daughter of Guatemala's most notorious former dictator on Saturday in a controversial wedding that took place in a high-walled compound ringed with razor wire.
Illinois Rep. Jerry Weller (R) (news, bio, voting record) tied the knot with Guatemalan lawmaker Zury Rios Sosa in the compound, just off a dusty road between a building site and a volcano near Guatemala's colonial capital Antigua.
...
She is a high ranking member of her father's Guatemalan Republican Front party, which held the presidency between 2000-2004, and is seen as a possible future presidential candidate herself.
The retired general's de facto presidency is remembered for his weekly sermons broadcast live on television and for a "scorched earth" campaign that killed thousands of mostly civilian Mayan Indians.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...id=1896&e=7&u=/
nm/people_guatemala_usa_dc
When I young back in PA, watching watching Byrd on CSpan with awe, I never thought he'd still be around and that I could watch him on an ADSL connection in Budapest. Wow.
When I young back in PA, watching watching Byrd on CSpan with awe, I never thought he'd still be around and that I could watch him on an ADSL connection in Budapest. Wow.
Snarking on the combat vets is really bad karma.
But it wins elections (see Clelland, Max and Kerry, John).
Snarking on the combat vets is really bad karma.
But it wins elections (see Clelland, Max and Kerry, John).
Hey, GWPDA!
You're a historian. Can you contextualize the fetishization of the military qua military in WWI? I only know it through literature.
Hey, GWPDA!
You're a historian. Can you contextualize the fetishization of the military qua military in WWI? I only know it through literature.
Jesus. When the comments here get so fucking vicious?
I think a lot of you have to learn to differentiate between the Partisan Troll (easy to ignore, transparent, recognizable talking points) and the Usenet Troll (interested only in causing, then confusing, then prolonging an argument -- impossible to refute, not worth the time to respond to). And then, of course, there are just people who are kinda jerks. But everyone, can't some deep breaths be taken?
Jesus. When the comments here get so fucking vicious?
I think a lot of you have to learn to differentiate between the Partisan Troll (easy to ignore, transparent, recognizable talking points) and the Usenet Troll (interested only in causing, then confusing, then prolonging an argument -- impossible to refute, not worth the time to respond to). And then, of course, there are just people who are kinda jerks. But everyone, can't some deep breaths be taken?
"Knitting needles? You're looking for knitting needles?--GWPDA"
Think Pinhead.
She's scary.
--
"Knitting needles? You're looking for knitting needles?--GWPDA"
Think Pinhead.
She's scary.
--
Errrh, Konopelli? Knitting is the single most swanky thing going amongst the 20 and 30-somethings. I don't explain it, it just is. A zen thing, resulting in mittens....
Errrh, Konopelli? Knitting is the single most swanky thing going amongst the 20 and 30-somethings. I don't explain it, it just is. A zen thing, resulting in mittens....
"Snarking on the combat vets is really bad karma.
But it wins elections (see Clelland, Max and Kerry, John).
SWR "
NEITHER election was legal or fair.
Kerry won by landslide.
--
"Snarking on the combat vets is really bad karma.
But it wins elections (see Clelland, Max and Kerry, John).
SWR "
NEITHER election was legal or fair.
Kerry won by landslide.
--
The median age-that would be interesting. I thought it was 30 with a standard deviation of 10.
The median age-that would be interesting. I thought it was 30 with a standard deviation of 10.
Errrh, Konopelli? Knitting is the single most swanky thing going amongst the 20 and 30-somethings. I don't explain it, it just is. A zen thing, resulting in mittens....
GWPDA
This is true! Many of my students carry around knitting bags. It's weird.
Errrh, Konopelli? Knitting is the single most swanky thing going amongst the 20 and 30-somethings. I don't explain it, it just is. A zen thing, resulting in mittens....
GWPDA
This is true! Many of my students carry around knitting bags. It's weird.
I think this is a first here at Atrios. We've had all sorts of trolls fouling up the place, but this here is new wrinkle. A leftie, pissed at the Democrats, pretending to be a Republican, perhaps in hopes that we'll take what he says more seriously coming from the right rather than from the left. Not as meta-trolling, but as an actual trolling tactic.
I was going to comment on this, but Carpbasman beat me to it. I am bemused by this troll which can't decide whether it wants to be to the left of Nader or the right of Buchanan.
And it wonders why we can't take it seriously.
I think this is a first here at Atrios. We've had all sorts of trolls fouling up the place, but this here is new wrinkle. A leftie, pissed at the Democrats, pretending to be a Republican, perhaps in hopes that we'll take what he says more seriously coming from the right rather than from the left. Not as meta-trolling, but as an actual trolling tactic.
I was going to comment on this, but Carpbasman beat me to it. I am bemused by this troll which can't decide whether it wants to be to the left of Nader or the right of Buchanan.
And it wonders why we can't take it seriously.
Konopelli,
I bring it up several years I'm sure.
For fuck's sake, the diaper is leaking again.
Konopelli,
I bring it up several years I'm sure.
For fuck's sake, the diaper is leaking again.
The big thing among my female grad student friends in Boston is joining knitting groups. Young philosophy Ph.D. candidates with eldery women, knitting. I think its great, connecting generations like that.
The big thing among my female grad student friends in Boston is joining knitting groups. Young philosophy Ph.D. candidates with eldery women, knitting. I think its great, connecting generations like that.
Women aren't supposed to admit such thins, but I just tuned 38, FWIW.
Women aren't supposed to admit such thins, but I just tuned 38, FWIW.
Snarking on the combat vets is really bad karma.
But it wins elections (see Clelland, Max and Kerry, John).
SWR "
NEITHER election was legal or fair.
Kerry won by landslide.
--
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:38 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
I'm not going to get into the election fraud debate.
But my point was very simple. The Swift Boat campaign worked on my father and he lives in very liberal northeastern New Jersey and has never to my memory been to church.
Imagine the effect it had in rural Ohio with a vet who was religious.
It's a very narrow point. I'm saying the Swift Boat campaign had an effect on a certain type of voter. Deny it if you want. I've seen it in action.
Snarking on the combat vets is really bad karma.
But it wins elections (see Clelland, Max and Kerry, John).
SWR "
NEITHER election was legal or fair.
Kerry won by landslide.
--
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:38 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
I'm not going to get into the election fraud debate.
But my point was very simple. The Swift Boat campaign worked on my father and he lives in very liberal northeastern New Jersey and has never to my memory been to church.
Imagine the effect it had in rural Ohio with a vet who was religious.
It's a very narrow point. I'm saying the Swift Boat campaign had an effect on a certain type of voter. Deny it if you want. I've seen it in action.
"it eould seem that the prudent thing to do would be to challenge it."
Again with you. You seem not to recognize that the USPNAC thugs have tried to assassinate (and may have succeeded in one famous case) our representatives.
To you, it's all just appeasement. You don't notice the EVIL DRUIDS at the other end of the Avenue, with their boxes of anthrax they kyped from the Nat'l Armory.
It's vacuum-thought.
--
"it eould seem that the prudent thing to do would be to challenge it."
Again with you. You seem not to recognize that the USPNAC thugs have tried to assassinate (and may have succeeded in one famous case) our representatives.
To you, it's all just appeasement. You don't notice the EVIL DRUIDS at the other end of the Avenue, with their boxes of anthrax they kyped from the Nat'l Armory.
It's vacuum-thought.
--
"Can you contextualize the fetishization of the military qua military in WWI?"
Um - I've always put it down to a strange affection for puttees. And the movies.
You don't really want the rest. What you're hearing tho is a squirrely misunderstanding of WWI as seen thru the lens of US involvement. Since the US was only over there for something like fifteen months, the context necessarily has become distorted.
Perhaps I could interest you in something involving Nigger Jack Pershing, the Buffalo Soldiers and the French?
"Can you contextualize the fetishization of the military qua military in WWI?"
Um - I've always put it down to a strange affection for puttees. And the movies.
You don't really want the rest. What you're hearing tho is a squirrely misunderstanding of WWI as seen thru the lens of US involvement. Since the US was only over there for something like fifteen months, the context necessarily has become distorted.
Perhaps I could interest you in something involving Nigger Jack Pershing, the Buffalo Soldiers and the French?
Wow, interesting comments in my name.
Wow, interesting comments in my name.
The real question is, why do trolls fixate on pie?
That's an easy one.
Because pie is a miserable cunt.
Any questions?
For fuck's sake, the diaper is leaking again.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:40 pm
that might be where the needle dro...ohhh ouch...i bet that smarts
The real question is, why do trolls fixate on pie?
That's an easy one.
Because pie is a miserable cunt.
Any questions?
For fuck's sake, the diaper is leaking again.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:40 pm
that might be where the needle dro...ohhh ouch...i bet that smarts
"Imagine the effect it had in rural Ohio with a vet who was religious.
It's a very narrow point. I'm saying the Swift Boat campaign had an effect on a certain type of voter. Deny it if you want. I've seen it in action.
SWR "
Even though your dad anomalously voted for Clinton, the fact is that the military has been an R lock FOREVER. Since Eisenhower, at least.
So the 'effect' of SwiftBoatLIARS is still not the big deal election fraud that stole the election.
--
"Imagine the effect it had in rural Ohio with a vet who was religious.
It's a very narrow point. I'm saying the Swift Boat campaign had an effect on a certain type of voter. Deny it if you want. I've seen it in action.
SWR "
Even though your dad anomalously voted for Clinton, the fact is that the military has been an R lock FOREVER. Since Eisenhower, at least.
So the 'effect' of SwiftBoatLIARS is still not the big deal election fraud that stole the election.
--
The real question is, why do trolls fixate on pie?
That's an easy one.
Because pie is a miserable cunt.
Any questions?
The real question is, why do trolls fixate on pie?
That's an easy one.
Because pie is a miserable cunt.
Any questions?
Perhaps I could interest you in something involving Nigger Jack Pershing, the Buffalo Soldiers and the French?
GWPDA
LOL, yeah, but maybe just me...
I'm thinking of stuff like The Great Gatsby, where Gtsby's military service rendered him temporarily classless and he sold his soul trying to get rich enough to buy into the world his soldiering made visible to him in the first place.
But then I'm a geek.
Perhaps I could interest you in something involving Nigger Jack Pershing, the Buffalo Soldiers and the French?
GWPDA
LOL, yeah, but maybe just me...
I'm thinking of stuff like The Great Gatsby, where Gtsby's military service rendered him temporarily classless and he sold his soul trying to get rich enough to buy into the world his soldiering made visible to him in the first place.
But then I'm a geek.
No. But thanks for your concern.
You're not gonna win.
No. But thanks for your concern.
You're not gonna win.
The real pie calls everyone pathetic, and says no one cares what they think, and blah blah blah ...
Come on, really, who here DOESN'T hate pie?
We all hate pie.
Pie you suck.
The real pie calls everyone pathetic, and says no one cares what they think, and blah blah blah ...
Come on, really, who here DOESN'T hate pie?
We all hate pie.
Pie you suck.
Pie
Sorry, thought the "bitter old woman" thing (11.20.04 - 8:31 pm) was ironic. Did not realize your whoziwhatsit had been taken by a jerk. Anyway, knitting is popular now.
Pie
Sorry, thought the "bitter old woman" thing (11.20.04 - 8:31 pm) was ironic. Did not realize your whoziwhatsit had been taken by a jerk. Anyway, knitting is popular now.
Kerry must bear responsibility for choosing to campaign on the theme of war. His service in the Vietnam war, and his plan for the war in Iraq. Unfortunately for him, both angles were campaign poison. The Swifties killed him on Vietnam, and his vote to fund Bush in Iraq gave him no credibility on that issue. What it adds up to is that Kerry ran a campaign with poorly conceived strategy. He campaigned hard, but did not hit back hard enough, and did not make changes when he needed to do so. Good candidate, poor campaign.
Kerry must bear responsibility for choosing to campaign on the theme of war. His service in the Vietnam war, and his plan for the war in Iraq. Unfortunately for him, both angles were campaign poison. The Swifties killed him on Vietnam, and his vote to fund Bush in Iraq gave him no credibility on that issue. What it adds up to is that Kerry ran a campaign with poorly conceived strategy. He campaigned hard, but did not hit back hard enough, and did not make changes when he needed to do so. Good candidate, poor campaign.
GWPDA...
So, is Fussell's "The Great War & Modern Memory" on target, or 'over the top'? I found the book convincing and compelling, but I'm a bit of a WWI geek, which I recall feeling viscerally at a pretty young age...I used it in grad seminars on the role(s) of literacy in culture...
GWPDA...
So, is Fussell's "The Great War & Modern Memory" on target, or 'over the top'? I found the book convincing and compelling, but I'm a bit of a WWI geek, which I recall feeling viscerally at a pretty young age...I used it in grad seminars on the role(s) of literacy in culture...
THe vicousness is one sided. I have not called people names. Just wanted to know why the dems want to get along with repubs so much? Especially when hte repubs always stab them in back
1) MCCain saying that vets have a right to question Kerry's vet records
2) dole giving the swifties cover
3) Frist campaingning against Daschle
4) bush campaingning against dems who voted with him.
THe vicousness is one sided. I have not called people names. Just wanted to know why the dems want to get along with repubs so much? Especially when hte repubs always stab them in back
1) MCCain saying that vets have a right to question Kerry's vet records
2) dole giving the swifties cover
3) Frist campaingning against Daschle
4) bush campaingning against dems who voted with him.
Even though your dad anomalously voted for Clinton, the fact is that the military has been an R lock FOREVER. Since Eisenhower, at least.
I had this exactly debate with him (my father). He hated Eisenhower and pretty vehemently denied (my argument) that vets are mostly Republican.
He swore up and down that he would have voted for Dean, Clark, or (even Hillary) Clinton.
Just not Kerry. And then he said "Jane Fonda" a bunch of times.
The problem is that Vietnam was before my time. I've always looked at leftist protesters as a bit comic (standing around with copies of the Militant and Free Mumia signs). I don't think I quite got just what a contentious issue just protesting a war (any war) was in 1971.
This election gave me a sense of just how poisonous Vietnam was. Thanks John Kerry and thanks George Bush for that lesson.
Even though your dad anomalously voted for Clinton, the fact is that the military has been an R lock FOREVER. Since Eisenhower, at least.
I had this exactly debate with him (my father). He hated Eisenhower and pretty vehemently denied (my argument) that vets are mostly Republican.
He swore up and down that he would have voted for Dean, Clark, or (even Hillary) Clinton.
Just not Kerry. And then he said "Jane Fonda" a bunch of times.
The problem is that Vietnam was before my time. I've always looked at leftist protesters as a bit comic (standing around with copies of the Militant and Free Mumia signs). I don't think I quite got just what a contentious issue just protesting a war (any war) was in 1971.
This election gave me a sense of just how poisonous Vietnam was. Thanks John Kerry and thanks George Bush for that lesson.
SWR, disown your stupid father already.
Why are you still even talking to him?
SWR, disown your stupid father already.
Why are you still even talking to him?
"Paul I was very much under the impression that Go is originally a Chinese game, or at least one that came to China from central Asia.
Querylous"
Er, right you are. One of the Confucianist four skills.
My interests allow me to forget a lot of stuff.
--
"Paul I was very much under the impression that Go is originally a Chinese game, or at least one that came to China from central Asia.
Querylous"
Er, right you are. One of the Confucianist four skills.
My interests allow me to forget a lot of stuff.
--
But dear, that wasn't fiction. That was a fairly precise recapitulation of the reality around Fitzgerald. The military, always, is if not democratic, is enlarging. The throwing together of all kinds, all classes is a stunner of an experience. The declaration of a single acceptable goal which must be met equally by all ranks, despite their previous class, is wonderfully cleansing. Fundamentally, this is why within a democracy, a draft or similar structure, to universally serve the needs of the state, is inherently more desirable than is the creation of a Janissary class, which only exacerbates the class structure by adding to it. The consequence of a draft-created post-military society is a more democratic society. The consequence of an additional class is merely an additional class.
Now, let me explain about knitting....
But dear, that wasn't fiction. That was a fairly precise recapitulation of the reality around Fitzgerald. The military, always, is if not democratic, is enlarging. The throwing together of all kinds, all classes is a stunner of an experience. The declaration of a single acceptable goal which must be met equally by all ranks, despite their previous class, is wonderfully cleansing. Fundamentally, this is why within a democracy, a draft or similar structure, to universally serve the needs of the state, is inherently more desirable than is the creation of a Janissary class, which only exacerbates the class structure by adding to it. The consequence of a draft-created post-military society is a more democratic society. The consequence of an additional class is merely an additional class.
Now, let me explain about knitting....
SWR, disown your stupid father already.
Why are you still even talking to him?
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:52 pm | #
He's actually fairly liberal on most issues. He's even in favor of gay marriage.
SWR, disown your stupid father already.
Why are you still even talking to him?
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:52 pm | #
He's actually fairly liberal on most issues. He's even in favor of gay marriage.
"Fussell's "The Great War & Modern Memory" on target"
Absolutely dead on. As good as Graves and a few others.
"Fussell's "The Great War & Modern Memory" on target"
Absolutely dead on. As good as Graves and a few others.
>Pie you suck.
fake pie<
A finstere cholem auf dein kopf und auf dein hent und fiss
>Pie you suck.
fake pie<
A finstere cholem auf dein kopf und auf dein hent und fiss
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:52 pm | #
Wow. We know you're trolling, little man.
pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:52 pm | #
Wow. We know you're trolling, little man.
i love pie.
if you have a problem with that, email your addy to sunzoo@gmail.com.
i will fuck you up.
i love pie.
if you have a problem with that, email your addy to sunzoo@gmail.com.
i will fuck you up.
SWR,
I agree. Kerry fell 9 pts after two weeks of the swifties. And I saw if coming, and kept wondering what Kerry was doing.
SWR,
I agree. Kerry fell 9 pts after two weeks of the swifties. And I saw if coming, and kept wondering what Kerry was doing.
I was clicking through CNN last night when something on the screen stopped me dead in my tracks. It was one of those idiotic text crawls at the bottom of the screen and what it said was truly bewildering. It was talking about some new hospital that the Pentagon was having built with the purpose of "helping amputees get back to the battlefield faster".
I was not under the influence of any mindbending chemical, it actually said that! These guys are so desperate for soldiers that they're gonna put amputees back into the fight? Either someone at the Pentagon's been watching way too much Monty Python or someone at CNN was expressing their Dadaist sensibilities!
I was clicking through CNN last night when something on the screen stopped me dead in my tracks. It was one of those idiotic text crawls at the bottom of the screen and what it said was truly bewildering. It was talking about some new hospital that the Pentagon was having built with the purpose of "helping amputees get back to the battlefield faster".
I was not under the influence of any mindbending chemical, it actually said that! These guys are so desperate for soldiers that they're gonna put amputees back into the fight? Either someone at the Pentagon's been watching way too much Monty Python or someone at CNN was expressing their Dadaist sensibilities!
Fussell's "The Great War & Modern Memory" on target"
Absolutely dead on.
You know, I read that book but I was kind of young during the First World War.
Fussell's "The Great War & Modern Memory" on target"
Absolutely dead on.
You know, I read that book but I was kind of young during the First World War.
Isn't it funny that I can steal pie's name, say really nasty things, and nobody knows the fucking difference?
Ha ha ha ha
Isn't it funny that I can steal pie's name, say really nasty things, and nobody knows the fucking difference?
Ha ha ha ha
"He hated Eisenhower...And then he said "Jane Fonda" a bunch of times."
That dates him, but it isn't normative for the preceding generation (and historians).
"The problem is that Vietnam was before my time. I've always looked at leftist protesters as a bit comic (standing around with copies of the Militant and Free Mumia signs). I don't think I quite got just what a contentious issue just protesting a war (any war) was in 1971."
Here, let me help you continue your lessons:
'Leftists' is a slur by the pro-war side. Against the Vietnam war was people from the full spectrum of America, including MLK Jr.'s followers among the Baptists (certainly not leftish).
The other factor in the 60s was the 'My Country Right or Wrong' thuggism, and the 'Hey Get a Haircut, Dirty Hippie' culture clash. Not much of either these days.
One more factor for your consideration:
As Paul Kantner said once, "The Summer of Love was the Renaissance of fucking."
--
"He hated Eisenhower...And then he said "Jane Fonda" a bunch of times."
That dates him, but it isn't normative for the preceding generation (and historians).
"The problem is that Vietnam was before my time. I've always looked at leftist protesters as a bit comic (standing around with copies of the Militant and Free Mumia signs). I don't think I quite got just what a contentious issue just protesting a war (any war) was in 1971."
Here, let me help you continue your lessons:
'Leftists' is a slur by the pro-war side. Against the Vietnam war was people from the full spectrum of America, including MLK Jr.'s followers among the Baptists (certainly not leftish).
The other factor in the 60s was the 'My Country Right or Wrong' thuggism, and the 'Hey Get a Haircut, Dirty Hippie' culture clash. Not much of either these days.
One more factor for your consideration:
As Paul Kantner said once, "The Summer of Love was the Renaissance of fucking."
--
Isn't it funny that I can steal pie's name, say really nasty things, and nobody knows the fucking difference?
Ha ha ha ha
fake pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:57 pm | #
Ummmm, not so much. It's pretty obvious when you post as Pie.
Isn't it funny that I can steal pie's name, say really nasty things, and nobody knows the fucking difference?
Ha ha ha ha
fake pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 8:57 pm | #
Ummmm, not so much. It's pretty obvious when you post as Pie.
Gee, I'm pretty clear on the whole pie/not-pie thing. But your invocation of the c-word proves what I've long suspected. This is about gender, and women not having the right to get pissed.
Gee, I'm pretty clear on the whole pie/not-pie thing. But your invocation of the c-word proves what I've long suspected. This is about gender, and women not having the right to get pissed.
i love pie.
if you have a problem with that, email your addy to sunzoo@gmail.com.
i will fuck you up.
Yeah right. You probably live in an entirely different city than I do. What are you going to do, get on a plane, travel to my city, go to mapquest and punch in my address, come to my house and kick my ass?
I doubt it.
You're a pussy dude. Only pussies make physical threats on the internet, where this is 0% chance they will actually have to back their trash talk up.
i love pie.
if you have a problem with that, email your addy to sunzoo@gmail.com.
i will fuck you up.
Yeah right. You probably live in an entirely different city than I do. What are you going to do, get on a plane, travel to my city, go to mapquest and punch in my address, come to my house and kick my ass?
I doubt it.
You're a pussy dude. Only pussies make physical threats on the internet, where this is 0% chance they will actually have to back their trash talk up.
Nope, got that wrong too:
What Kantner said was, "The Summer of Love was the Golden Age of fucking."
--
Nope, got that wrong too:
What Kantner said was, "The Summer of Love was the Golden Age of fucking."
--
Ummmm, not so much. It's pretty obvious when you post as Pie.
Then why do people respond to pie?
See SWR's post above.
Ummmm, not so much. It's pretty obvious when you post as Pie.
Then why do people respond to pie?
See SWR's post above.
Isn't it funny that I can steal pie's name, say really nasty things, and nobody knows the fucking difference?
George W. Bush.
Worst. President. Ever.
Heehee.
Isn't it funny that I can steal pie's name, say really nasty things, and nobody knows the fucking difference?
George W. Bush.
Worst. President. Ever.
Heehee.
The other factor in the 60s was the 'My Country Right or Wrong' thuggism, and the 'Hey Get a Haircut, Dirty Hippie' culture clash. Not much of either these days.
I'd agree but the scary thing was that it was revived (almost like a revival of Hair or a Doors cover band) during the election.
I've had 20 year old right-wingers snear at me as a "hippie" and I wasn't even born in 1968.
I don't think the Swift Boat campaign affected most people.
But I did make a point of talking to all of those vets who run those booths near the Lincoln Memorial and I couldn't find one who had anything good to say about Kerry.
NOT ONE.
Didn't Kerry even take a walk to the Vietnam Memorial and chat with some of those people before he decided to base his campaing on Vietnam?
The other factor in the 60s was the 'My Country Right or Wrong' thuggism, and the 'Hey Get a Haircut, Dirty Hippie' culture clash. Not much of either these days.
I'd agree but the scary thing was that it was revived (almost like a revival of Hair or a Doors cover band) during the election.
I've had 20 year old right-wingers snear at me as a "hippie" and I wasn't even born in 1968.
I don't think the Swift Boat campaign affected most people.
But I did make a point of talking to all of those vets who run those booths near the Lincoln Memorial and I couldn't find one who had anything good to say about Kerry.
NOT ONE.
Didn't Kerry even take a walk to the Vietnam Memorial and chat with some of those people before he decided to base his campaing on Vietnam?
"These guys are so desperate for soldiers that they're gonna put amputees back into the fight?"
This scandal broke last year, as the military spokesperson said (paraphrase) 'the best thing for these wounded soldiers is to get them back in the fight.'
Didn't hear any ooh-rahs in the background. Just paperclips bouncing off the spokesman's head.
--
SWR:
Is your dad a 'nam combat vet?
that's the central question here.
cuz if he's not, he's just blowing smoke...
if he is, he's likely in serious denial, because those people did some shit, stuff that if you (or i) had done it, it would be eating us still, too. A lot of those guys are the ones you see sleeping under garbage bags in parks and shuffling up to mission food lines in the early morning. They have a lot on their minds, brother, which is why so many of them have lost theirs...
John Kerry's question was what do you say to the man who is the lst one to be killed for a mistake.
An equally difficult question is: what do you say to men who have become themost vicious killers in the service of that same mistake, and lived to carry the weight of that knowledge...Kerry carries that knowledge and, for my money, bears it better than any other man in public life.
I shall close by noting that i concur in your assessment of McStain...
shaka, bra
"These guys are so desperate for soldiers that they're gonna put amputees back into the fight?"
This scandal broke last year, as the military spokesperson said (paraphrase) 'the best thing for these wounded soldiers is to get them back in the fight.'
Didn't hear any ooh-rahs in the background. Just paperclips bouncing off the spokesman's head.
--
SWR:
Is your dad a 'nam combat vet?
that's the central question here.
cuz if he's not, he's just blowing smoke...
if he is, he's likely in serious denial, because those people did some shit, stuff that if you (or i) had done it, it would be eating us still, too. A lot of those guys are the ones you see sleeping under garbage bags in parks and shuffling up to mission food lines in the early morning. They have a lot on their minds, brother, which is why so many of them have lost theirs...
John Kerry's question was what do you say to the man who is the lst one to be killed for a mistake.
An equally difficult question is: what do you say to men who have become themost vicious killers in the service of that same mistake, and lived to carry the weight of that knowledge...Kerry carries that knowledge and, for my money, bears it better than any other man in public life.
I shall close by noting that i concur in your assessment of McStain...
shaka, bra
some new hospital that the Pentagon was having built with the purpose of "helping amputees get back to the battlefield faster".
'tis merely a flesh wound.
...
just remember, you don't have to love it, and you don't have to leave it, either. You can stay and change it instead.
some new hospital that the Pentagon was having built with the purpose of "helping amputees get back to the battlefield faster".
'tis merely a flesh wound.
...
just remember, you don't have to love it, and you don't have to leave it, either. You can stay and change it instead.
See SWR's post above.
fake pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:00 pm | #
Well I responded to your comment because I'm currently using my father's reaction to the Swiftees as an argument and you served my purposes.
We had a commmon interest
See SWR's post above.
fake pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:00 pm | #
Well I responded to your comment because I'm currently using my father's reaction to the Swiftees as an argument and you served my purposes.
We had a commmon interest
He didn't respond to Pie, he copied your post and responded to it. But regardless of whether SWR thought he was responding to Pie, it's pretty obvious when someone namesteals a well known alias.
He didn't respond to Pie, he copied your post and responded to it. But regardless of whether SWR thought he was responding to Pie, it's pretty obvious when someone namesteals a well known alias.
SWR:
Is your dad a 'nam combat vet?
that's the central question here.
cuz if he's not, he's just blowing smoke...
No. He was a jet mechanic. Never got shot at.
SWR:
Is your dad a 'nam combat vet?
that's the central question here.
cuz if he's not, he's just blowing smoke...
No. He was a jet mechanic. Never got shot at.
Paul & Thurber,
Is this a back-on-the-bicycle sort of thing?
Paul & Thurber,
Is this a back-on-the-bicycle sort of thing?
Look, troll, I'm not the least bit intimidated by stupidity.
Look, troll, I'm not the least bit intimidated by stupidity.
Yeah right. You probably live in an entirely different city than I do. What are you going to do, get on a plane, travel to my city, go to mapquest and punch in my address, come to my house and kick my ass?
no, you're going to give me your address, if you're such a big man and all.
driving directions would be helpful.
I'll call ahead.
Yeah right. You probably live in an entirely different city than I do. What are you going to do, get on a plane, travel to my city, go to mapquest and punch in my address, come to my house and kick my ass?
no, you're going to give me your address, if you're such a big man and all.
driving directions would be helpful.
I'll call ahead.
We had a commmon interest
One of many, I'm sure. You don't have to say anything, but I'm pretty sure you hate pie as much as I do.
I'm pretty sure most people here hate pie, but they are afraid to say anything because then pie's friends will gang up on them.
We had a commmon interest
One of many, I'm sure. You don't have to say anything, but I'm pretty sure you hate pie as much as I do.
I'm pretty sure most people here hate pie, but they are afraid to say anything because then pie's friends will gang up on them.
"I've had 20 year old right-wingers snear at me as a "hippie" and I wasn't even born in 1968."
Yeah, sure, I got plenty myself, but NOTHING like in the 60s, which was my point.
The great shift in our culture in the 60s can hardly be overestimated. And it is highly underestimated by young'in who weren't there to see how far we have come.
--
"I've had 20 year old right-wingers snear at me as a "hippie" and I wasn't even born in 1968."
Yeah, sure, I got plenty myself, but NOTHING like in the 60s, which was my point.
The great shift in our culture in the 60s can hardly be overestimated. And it is highly underestimated by young'in who weren't there to see how far we have come.
--
Only pussies make physical threats on the internet
it's only a threat when you don't carry it out.
Here's a very nice picture of Arthur when he was just barely a year old.
Puppies are nice, aren't they?
Only pussies make physical threats on the internet
it's only a threat when you don't carry it out.
Here's a very nice picture of Arthur when he was just barely a year old.
Puppies are nice, aren't they?
SWR,
See I think the whole obsession with Vietnam in the election was a sort of unconscious admission that we're there again. (Ooooh! Do I get a gold star for wandering near the topic?)
SWR,
See I think the whole obsession with Vietnam in the election was a sort of unconscious admission that we're there again. (Ooooh! Do I get a gold star for wandering near the topic?)
Only pussies make physical threats on the internet
it's only a threat when you don't carry it out.
Only pussies make physical threats on the internet
it's only a threat when you don't carry it out.
I can spout off about how nobody likes Pie because clearly I am so amazingly loveable and not obsessed and irritating at all.
Yep.
I can spout off about how nobody likes Pie because clearly I am so amazingly loveable and not obsessed and irritating at all.
Yep.
One of many, I'm sure. You don't have to say anything, but I'm pretty sure you hate pie as much as I do.
Dude. If you hate somebody from what you've read on an Internet chat board, you've got problems.
Pie's the local troll hunter. That's why you're obsessed with her.
She's accused me of being a troll 100 times and I just ignore it.
Get therapy now.
One of many, I'm sure. You don't have to say anything, but I'm pretty sure you hate pie as much as I do.
Dude. If you hate somebody from what you've read on an Internet chat board, you've got problems.
Pie's the local troll hunter. That's why you're obsessed with her.
She's accused me of being a troll 100 times and I just ignore it.
Get therapy now.
I dont understand why pie expects to suss and attack people who disagree with her while expecting people to respect her.
I dont understand why pie expects to suss and attack people who disagree with her while expecting people to respect her.
no, you're going to give me your address, if you're such a big man and all.
I would seriously give you my address if I really thought there was any chance you would follow through on your threats.
But I know there isn't.
Again, are you really going to take the time to travel halfway across the country or something just to kick my ass.
I seriously, seriously doubt it.
And pie:
I am not stupid. I am not stupid because I see through your bullshit.
You wish I was stupid, like all your friends in here, but I'm not.
You suck pie.
I hate you pie.
no, you're going to give me your address, if you're such a big man and all.
I would seriously give you my address if I really thought there was any chance you would follow through on your threats.
But I know there isn't.
Again, are you really going to take the time to travel halfway across the country or something just to kick my ass.
I seriously, seriously doubt it.
And pie:
I am not stupid. I am not stupid because I see through your bullshit.
You wish I was stupid, like all your friends in here, but I'm not.
You suck pie.
I hate you pie.
"Paul & Thurber,
Is this a back-on-the-bicycle sort of thing?
NYMary"
No, it is yet another effort to destroy the US military.
--
"Paul & Thurber,
Is this a back-on-the-bicycle sort of thing?
NYMary"
No, it is yet another effort to destroy the US military.
--
I'm pretty sure most people here hate pie, but they are afraid to say anything because then pie's friends will gang up on them.
ummmm, fake pie? Pretty seriously misreading your audience here.
I'm pretty sure most people here hate pie, but they are afraid to say anything because then pie's friends will gang up on them.
ummmm, fake pie? Pretty seriously misreading your audience here.
Would you PULLEASE stop feeding the antipie trolls?
What a waste of time. Shame on you.
1,220 dead GIs, and over 100,000 dead civilians.
Pick your noses on your own time.
--
Would you PULLEASE stop feeding the antipie trolls?
What a waste of time. Shame on you.
1,220 dead GIs, and over 100,000 dead civilians.
Pick your noses on your own time.
--
besides, mapquest is really inaccurate sometimes.
i was going to point out that only pimply losers living rent-free in their mom's basements waste time calling anonymous bloggers nasty names. but I won't go there.
besides, mapquest is really inaccurate sometimes.
i was going to point out that only pimply losers living rent-free in their mom's basements waste time calling anonymous bloggers nasty names. but I won't go there.
SWR,
See I think the whole obsession with Vietnam in the election was a sort of unconscious admission that we're there again. (Ooooh! Do I get a gold star for wandering near the topic?)
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:06 pm | #
What I think happened was that after WWII there was a cult of the military. A lot of people bought their houses and went to college based on the fact that they served in WWII.
But it went overboard and you had the inevitable backlash during Vietnam.
Now post 9/11 we have the same cult of the military and I'm not going to suffer because of the backlash that will (inevitably) come on in 10 years. I'm not going to need medical care for what happened to me in Iraq or therapy.
That's the problem. Fetishizing soldiers leads to a backlash against them.
SWR,
See I think the whole obsession with Vietnam in the election was a sort of unconscious admission that we're there again. (Ooooh! Do I get a gold star for wandering near the topic?)
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:06 pm | #
What I think happened was that after WWII there was a cult of the military. A lot of people bought their houses and went to college based on the fact that they served in WWII.
But it went overboard and you had the inevitable backlash during Vietnam.
Now post 9/11 we have the same cult of the military and I'm not going to suffer because of the backlash that will (inevitably) come on in 10 years. I'm not going to need medical care for what happened to me in Iraq or therapy.
That's the problem. Fetishizing soldiers leads to a backlash against them.
She's accused me of being a troll 100 times and I just ignore it.
That's because accusing people of being a troll is pie's only mode of argument.
She is too intellectually feeble to do anything else.
Everybody hates you pie. Everybody sees through your shit.
She's accused me of being a troll 100 times and I just ignore it.
That's because accusing people of being a troll is pie's only mode of argument.
She is too intellectually feeble to do anything else.
Everybody hates you pie. Everybody sees through your shit.
I'm pretty sure most people here hate pie, but they are afraid to say anything because then pie's friends will gang up on them.
fake pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:04 pm | #
It's true!!! It's so true!! If I dare disagree with a woman I don't know on an unmoderated message board, her powerful friends in high places may possibly post a strongly-worded response!
I'm pretty sure most people here hate pie, but they are afraid to say anything because then pie's friends will gang up on them.
fake pie | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:04 pm | #
It's true!!! It's so true!! If I dare disagree with a woman I don't know on an unmoderated message board, her powerful friends in high places may possibly post a strongly-worded response!
Wow. I don't care.
Get it?
You're kinda sad. I'm sorry.
Wow. I don't care.
Get it?
You're kinda sad. I'm sorry.
They're voting on the omnibus bill. Please let it fail. Oh please, oh please, oh please!
They're voting on the omnibus bill. Please let it fail. Oh please, oh please, oh please!
and calling someone a pussy merely reinforces my point about gender....
and calling someone a pussy merely reinforces my point about gender....
Hi ALl,
Has anyone seen the whole of 'Power of Nightmares?' It pretty much lays out the whole christofascist/islamofascist thing. incredible documentary.
Hi ALl,
Has anyone seen the whole of 'Power of Nightmares?' It pretty much lays out the whole christofascist/islamofascist thing. incredible documentary.
I'm not anti-woman. I resent that.
I had a dream last night that a big hairy cave with teeth collapsed and cut off my big toe. It was pretty scary.
I'm not anti-woman. I resent that.
I had a dream last night that a big hairy cave with teeth collapsed and cut off my big toe. It was pretty scary.
Hi ALl,
Has anyone seen the whole of 'Power of Nightmares?' It pretty much lays out the whole christofascist/islamofascist thing. incredible documentary.
Hi ALl,
Has anyone seen the whole of 'Power of Nightmares?' It pretty much lays out the whole christofascist/islamofascist thing. incredible documentary.
SWR,
See I think the whole obsession with Vietnam in the election was a sort of unconscious admission that we're there again. (Ooooh! Do I get a gold star for wandering near the topic?)
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:06 pm | #
Once again, if you 'hate' someone based on what they post on the internet, you need therapy.
I save my 'hate' for people who have, you know, stolen from me or mugged me or cheated on me or something like that.
Therapy now. Go.
SWR,
See I think the whole obsession with Vietnam in the election was a sort of unconscious admission that we're there again. (Ooooh! Do I get a gold star for wandering near the topic?)
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:06 pm | #
Once again, if you 'hate' someone based on what they post on the internet, you need therapy.
I save my 'hate' for people who have, you know, stolen from me or mugged me or cheated on me or something like that.
Therapy now. Go.
Konopelli, our soldiers are not 'the most vicious killers.' Those would be Nazis.
Our soldiers fight under the UCMJ. Kerry fought under the UCMJ. McCain fought under the UCMJ.
Bush wants to destroy the UCMJ.
Please keep the exaggerations to a minimum.
--
Konopelli, our soldiers are not 'the most vicious killers.' Those would be Nazis.
Our soldiers fight under the UCMJ. Kerry fought under the UCMJ. McCain fought under the UCMJ.
Bush wants to destroy the UCMJ.
Please keep the exaggerations to a minimum.
--
One of many, I'm sure. You don't have to say anything, but I'm pretty sure you hate pie as much as I do.
I'm pretty sure most people here hate pie, but they are afraid to say anything because then pie's friends will gang up on them.
Most alcoholics are sure everbody drinks all the time.
There was a show on HBO about legal prostitution in Nevada, and the proprietor said, to paraphrease; "Any man who says he's never used a prostitute is lying. We all do it."
One of many, I'm sure. You don't have to say anything, but I'm pretty sure you hate pie as much as I do.
I'm pretty sure most people here hate pie, but they are afraid to say anything because then pie's friends will gang up on them.
Most alcoholics are sure everbody drinks all the time.
There was a show on HBO about legal prostitution in Nevada, and the proprietor said, to paraphrease; "Any man who says he's never used a prostitute is lying. We all do it."
Konopelli, our soldiers are not 'the most vicious killers.' Those would be Nazis.
Our soldiers fight under the UCMJ. Kerry fought under the UCMJ. McCain fought under the UCMJ.
Hey we actually agree on something. There's hope yet.
Konopelli, our soldiers are not 'the most vicious killers.' Those would be Nazis.
Our soldiers fight under the UCMJ. Kerry fought under the UCMJ. McCain fought under the UCMJ.
Hey we actually agree on something. There's hope yet.
I would seriously give you my address if I really thought there was any chance you would follow through on your threats.
ok. sunzoo@gmail.com. what do you have to lose?
apart from your dignity and several front teeth, of course
I would seriously give you my address if I really thought there was any chance you would follow through on your threats.
ok. sunzoo@gmail.com. what do you have to lose?
apart from your dignity and several front teeth, of course
You're kinda sad. I'm sorry.
Aww. A moment of compassion from pie.
If I dare disagree with a woman I don't know on an unmoderated message board, her powerful friends in high places may possibly post a strongly-worded response!
OK, mock if you like, but you know as well as I do that people will, in fact, hold back precisely in fear of getting a "strongly-worded response," which from pie will be more like a vicious personal insult.
Because that's all pie can do, because she has no brain.
And get off the woman-hating angle; I didn't even know pie was a woman before you said so. Men can be cunts too.
You're kinda sad. I'm sorry.
Aww. A moment of compassion from pie.
If I dare disagree with a woman I don't know on an unmoderated message board, her powerful friends in high places may possibly post a strongly-worded response!
OK, mock if you like, but you know as well as I do that people will, in fact, hold back precisely in fear of getting a "strongly-worded response," which from pie will be more like a vicious personal insult.
Because that's all pie can do, because she has no brain.
And get off the woman-hating angle; I didn't even know pie was a woman before you said so. Men can be cunts too.
You wish I was stupid, like all your friends in here
Everybody hates you pie.
See how smart I am? Everybody hates pie except her many friends.
My cat's breath smells like cat food.
You wish I was stupid, like all your friends in here
Everybody hates you pie.
See how smart I am? Everybody hates pie except her many friends.
My cat's breath smells like cat food.
Well.
I think I'll go knit something. Or someone. Or monitor the Omnibus bill. Something.
NYMary, whyn't you go tickle Baby? Just for sheer entertainment value, if nothing else....
Well.
I think I'll go knit something. Or someone. Or monitor the Omnibus bill. Something.
NYMary, whyn't you go tickle Baby? Just for sheer entertainment value, if nothing else....
SWR:
Okay...i dont wanna be hard on the dude...if he was a combat mechanic, in a chopper outfit, or a fighterbomber group, or something, he saw some shit. I was a RAMF and even I saw a little shit (was sleeping one night when a mortar round went off about 20 meters away...redefined forever my dea of a sudden loud noise, reduced one end of the barracks to rubble, but didn't hurt anybody cuz the guys who bunked there were on duty)...
So, what I'm saying is, if he was attached to a combat aviation group, he knew about and had friends who were hurt or killed...but if he wasn't in the bush, he wasn't doing the things the guys who WERE out there were doing, either. It's easy to feel tarred by that brush, for the same reason some folks are pissed of and in denial about their complicity in this shit in Iraq...
SWR:
Okay...i dont wanna be hard on the dude...if he was a combat mechanic, in a chopper outfit, or a fighterbomber group, or something, he saw some shit. I was a RAMF and even I saw a little shit (was sleeping one night when a mortar round went off about 20 meters away...redefined forever my dea of a sudden loud noise, reduced one end of the barracks to rubble, but didn't hurt anybody cuz the guys who bunked there were on duty)...
So, what I'm saying is, if he was attached to a combat aviation group, he knew about and had friends who were hurt or killed...but if he wasn't in the bush, he wasn't doing the things the guys who WERE out there were doing, either. It's easy to feel tarred by that brush, for the same reason some folks are pissed of and in denial about their complicity in this shit in Iraq...
SWR,
I think you're right about that. I really pity these poor kids on a certain level; they have no idea what they're going to be facing down the line. But a yellow ribbon magnet's not gonna help that.
In order for a draft to even out social distinctions, GWPDA, it seems like it would have to be both broad and fair. The real tragedy of Vietnam, it seems to me, is that mostly disempowered kids went (Kerry again notable here), then they got shat on because they got home.
The question is whether the fetishization/backlash cycle will be quicker here. I suspect it might be.
SWR,
I think you're right about that. I really pity these poor kids on a certain level; they have no idea what they're going to be facing down the line. But a yellow ribbon magnet's not gonna help that.
In order for a draft to even out social distinctions, GWPDA, it seems like it would have to be both broad and fair. The real tragedy of Vietnam, it seems to me, is that mostly disempowered kids went (Kerry again notable here), then they got shat on because they got home.
The question is whether the fetishization/backlash cycle will be quicker here. I suspect it might be.
Would you PULLEASE stop feeding the antipie trolls?
What a waste of time. Shame on you.
1,220 dead GIs, and over 100,000 dead civilians.
People, he's right. YOur time would be much better spent patting each other on the back in an echo chamber and yelling at anyone who disagrees with you.
That will save lives, I'm sure.
?
Would you PULLEASE stop feeding the antipie trolls?
What a waste of time. Shame on you.
1,220 dead GIs, and over 100,000 dead civilians.
People, he's right. YOur time would be much better spent patting each other on the back in an echo chamber and yelling at anyone who disagrees with you.
That will save lives, I'm sure.
?
SWR:
Okay...i dont wanna be hard on the dude...if he was a combat mechanic, in a chopper outfit, or a fighterbomber group, or something, he saw some shit. I was a RAMF and even I saw a little shit (was sleeping one night when a mortar round went off about 20 meters away...redefined forever my dea of a sudden loud noise, reduced one end of the barracks to rubble, but didn't hurt anybody cuz the guys who bunked there were on duty)...
I'm actually unclear on just how much combat he saw but I do know for a fact that he was in a support position not a combat position.
Honestly, it tends to vary according to whether he's had a couple of drinks or is stone cold sober. But he was in the Marines not the army and the Marines are pretty hard core whether or not they actually served in the infantry.
SWR:
Okay...i dont wanna be hard on the dude...if he was a combat mechanic, in a chopper outfit, or a fighterbomber group, or something, he saw some shit. I was a RAMF and even I saw a little shit (was sleeping one night when a mortar round went off about 20 meters away...redefined forever my dea of a sudden loud noise, reduced one end of the barracks to rubble, but didn't hurt anybody cuz the guys who bunked there were on duty)...
I'm actually unclear on just how much combat he saw but I do know for a fact that he was in a support position not a combat position.
Honestly, it tends to vary according to whether he's had a couple of drinks or is stone cold sober. But he was in the Marines not the army and the Marines are pretty hard core whether or not they actually served in the infantry.
So... how 'bout that road to the Baghdad airport, huh?
Anyone?
Pretty unsecured, right?
So... how 'bout that road to the Baghdad airport, huh?
Anyone?
Pretty unsecured, right?
Once again, if you 'hate' someone based on what they post on the internet, you need therapy.
I save my 'hate' for people who have, you know, stolen from me or mugged me or cheated on me or something like that.
Therapy now. Go.
SWR
ummm, excuse me? Did I say anything about hating anyone based on what they post? I don't think so. Or have you been name-stolen, SWR?
Once again, if you 'hate' someone based on what they post on the internet, you need therapy.
I save my 'hate' for people who have, you know, stolen from me or mugged me or cheated on me or something like that.
Therapy now. Go.
SWR
ummm, excuse me? Did I say anything about hating anyone based on what they post? I don't think so. Or have you been name-stolen, SWR?
GWPDA:
Arthur is a fine beast. What breed?
I knew you were another canophile.
I never met a dog i didn't like...which I cannot say about people...
GWPDA:
Arthur is a fine beast. What breed?
I knew you were another canophile.
I never met a dog i didn't like...which I cannot say about people...
ok. sunzoo@gmail.com. what do you have to lose?
apart from your dignity and several front teeth, of course
Well, I do prize my dignity, as well as my teeth, especially the front ones, which are nice and straight and white.
But seriously, you're not going to do it! If for no other reason, then how would you possibly know if the address I give you is my true address?
I could just give you somebody else's and then you would go kick some innocent person's ass.
If you had any intention of actually following through on your threat, which of course you do not.
Tremble at the power of my superior reasoning, Eschatonians!
i hate you pie
ok. sunzoo@gmail.com. what do you have to lose?
apart from your dignity and several front teeth, of course
Well, I do prize my dignity, as well as my teeth, especially the front ones, which are nice and straight and white.
But seriously, you're not going to do it! If for no other reason, then how would you possibly know if the address I give you is my true address?
I could just give you somebody else's and then you would go kick some innocent person's ass.
If you had any intention of actually following through on your threat, which of course you do not.
Tremble at the power of my superior reasoning, Eschatonians!
i hate you pie
Or have you been name-stolen, SWR?
NYMary
Conversely, Mary, i think it is your nym being used without your knowledge...
Or have you been name-stolen, SWR?
NYMary
Conversely, Mary, i think it is your nym being used without your knowledge...
fake pie - what are you, 6 years old?
-
fake pie - what are you, 6 years old?
-
Any chance for a new thread? One where the trolls haven't crapped in the punch bowl?
Any chance for a new thread? One where the trolls haven't crapped in the punch bowl?
I didn't even know pie was a woman
I was only hoping. Thinking of pie makes me feel all tingly in my garanimals.
I didn't even know pie was a woman
I was only hoping. Thinking of pie makes me feel all tingly in my garanimals.
"my lasting suggestion, paul .. spend an evening with speeches given by robert kennedy late in his career and measure our current leaders against the shadow he casts - it's a monolith
syntallic"
Gee, whatever happened to RFK?
--
"my lasting suggestion, paul .. spend an evening with speeches given by robert kennedy late in his career and measure our current leaders against the shadow he casts - it's a monolith
syntallic"
Gee, whatever happened to RFK?
--
My sense is, the Swifites were going to hit Kerry if he made the convention about How Bush is Evil Incarnate or How Kerry Investigated BCCI and the POWs/MIAs or How We Must Get the Troops Out of Iraq by January, If Not Sooner or anything else that might command universal approbation here.
IIRC, the first ad came out the Monday after the Convention, and the book not too long after that. I don't think one can whip up an ad and buy airtime over a weekend, and one certainly can't get a book out that quickly.
I suspect it was planned for the Swifites to hit Kerry after the convention all along. At most, IMHO, the Convention caused them to change their line of attack from the anti-war protesting to the medals.
If anything, the emphasis on Kerry's Vietnam service at the Convention might have blunted the Swifties' attack more than if Kerry had just talked domestic policy or pushed a full-throated, one-note anti-war campaign.
My sense is, the Swifites were going to hit Kerry if he made the convention about How Bush is Evil Incarnate or How Kerry Investigated BCCI and the POWs/MIAs or How We Must Get the Troops Out of Iraq by January, If Not Sooner or anything else that might command universal approbation here.
IIRC, the first ad came out the Monday after the Convention, and the book not too long after that. I don't think one can whip up an ad and buy airtime over a weekend, and one certainly can't get a book out that quickly.
I suspect it was planned for the Swifites to hit Kerry after the convention all along. At most, IMHO, the Convention caused them to change their line of attack from the anti-war protesting to the medals.
If anything, the emphasis on Kerry's Vietnam service at the Convention might have blunted the Swifties' attack more than if Kerry had just talked domestic policy or pushed a full-throated, one-note anti-war campaign.
fake pie - what are you, 6 years old?
Yes, I am 6 years old.
Now don't you all feel bad for being mean to a 6 year old?
I'll take your apologies now, beginning with pie.
fake pie - what are you, 6 years old?
Yes, I am 6 years old.
Now don't you all feel bad for being mean to a 6 year old?
I'll take your apologies now, beginning with pie.
GWPDA,
She's asleep, BTW. But I'll have Friday Babyblogging on my blog next weekend.
Tremble at the power of my superior reasoning, Eschatonians!
now there's a good troll.
suppose i'll have to settle for calling you a mama's boy.
GWPDA,
She's asleep, BTW. But I'll have Friday Babyblogging on my blog next weekend.
Tremble at the power of my superior reasoning, Eschatonians!
now there's a good troll.
suppose i'll have to settle for calling you a mama's boy.
Fake pie, really.You're talking shit. Two options:
A. I am afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
A. I am not afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
Do it via his email and no one else finds out where you live.
Fake pie, really.You're talking shit. Two options:
A. I am afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
A. I am not afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
Do it via his email and no one else finds out where you live.
SWR,
I think you're right about that. I really pity these poor kids on a certain level; they have no idea what they're going to be facing down the line. But a yellow ribbon magnet's not gonna help that.
The problem is that the same civilian who sees the soldier as a demigod can't quite understand what happened when he sees that same soldier wearing civilian clothes.
Think of it as the virgin whore complex. Do most women go out with geeks who put them on a pedestal? No. Why? Because if you fetishize someone you don't get him/her.
I think that's why some vets hold onto their identity so tenaciously.
And I think this is the group Kerry really pissed off. Kerry hasn't been in uniform since his 20s. But he's been using it to win elections ever since.
Most vets don't become senators or marry heiresses. As I said, why exactly didn't Kerry simply walk down to the Vietnam Memorial and talk to some of those people who run those MIA booths.
He would have learned very quickly that the war hero line works with rich women on Beacon Hill but it's not going to work on blue collar/middle class men who have been talking about their military service in the bars, VFW Halls, etc. for years.
SWR,
I think you're right about that. I really pity these poor kids on a certain level; they have no idea what they're going to be facing down the line. But a yellow ribbon magnet's not gonna help that.
The problem is that the same civilian who sees the soldier as a demigod can't quite understand what happened when he sees that same soldier wearing civilian clothes.
Think of it as the virgin whore complex. Do most women go out with geeks who put them on a pedestal? No. Why? Because if you fetishize someone you don't get him/her.
I think that's why some vets hold onto their identity so tenaciously.
And I think this is the group Kerry really pissed off. Kerry hasn't been in uniform since his 20s. But he's been using it to win elections ever since.
Most vets don't become senators or marry heiresses. As I said, why exactly didn't Kerry simply walk down to the Vietnam Memorial and talk to some of those people who run those MIA booths.
He would have learned very quickly that the war hero line works with rich women on Beacon Hill but it's not going to work on blue collar/middle class men who have been talking about their military service in the bars, VFW Halls, etc. for years.
Fake pie, really.You're talking shit. Two options:
A. I am afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
A. I am not afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
Do it via his email and no one else finds out where you live.
Fake pie, really.You're talking shit. Two options:
A. I am afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
A. I am not afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
Do it via his email and no one else finds out where you live.
Jeez, the trolls are especially pathetic tonight. If you're so angry about the Democrats supposedly not doing anything, why aren't you doing something yourself? Like, right now? And if you're so upset at some perceived lack of intelligent discourse, why don't you leave? It's Saturday night, for God's sake! Go out and live a little!! At least I have a reason to stay in (very ill) - what's yours?
One more quick point - I think it's possible, ala John McCain, to respect a person for some things they have done, but not for others. I see no problems in that.
Jeez, the trolls are especially pathetic tonight. If you're so angry about the Democrats supposedly not doing anything, why aren't you doing something yourself? Like, right now? And if you're so upset at some perceived lack of intelligent discourse, why don't you leave? It's Saturday night, for God's sake! Go out and live a little!! At least I have a reason to stay in (very ill) - what's yours?
One more quick point - I think it's possible, ala John McCain, to respect a person for some things they have done, but not for others. I see no problems in that.
ummm, excuse me? Did I say anything about hating anyone based on what they post? I don't think so. Or have you been name-stolen, SWR?
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:18 pm | #
I was addressing that to "fake Pie".
ummm, excuse me? Did I say anything about hating anyone based on what they post? I don't think so. Or have you been name-stolen, SWR?
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:18 pm | #
I was addressing that to "fake Pie".
of course, the second A should be a B. Sorry.
of course, the second A should be a B. Sorry.
Conversely, Mary, i think it is your nym being used without your knowledge...
Konopelli
I wonder if I missed this. What time?
Conversely, Mary, i think it is your nym being used without your knowledge...
Konopelli
I wonder if I missed this. What time?
Do it via his email and no one else finds out where you live.
they don't allow visitors after 6pm.
Do it via his email and no one else finds out where you live.
they don't allow visitors after 6pm.
I second the recommendation of Fussell's Great War and Modern Memory.
But then, I am a bit of a Great War buff myself.
I second the recommendation of Fussell's Great War and Modern Memory.
But then, I am a bit of a Great War buff myself.
Fake pie, really.You're talking shit. Two options:
A. I am afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
A. I am not afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
Do it via his email and no one else finds out where you live.
Okay, I don't care who has my address. You can all come to my house and kick my ass, OK?
Go here:
7470 Dove Creek Circle
Colorado Springs, CO
Any questions?
Fake pie, really.You're talking shit. Two options:
A. I am afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
A. I am not afraid to give my antagonist directions to my house.
Do it via his email and no one else finds out where you live.
Okay, I don't care who has my address. You can all come to my house and kick my ass, OK?
Go here:
7470 Dove Creek Circle
Colorado Springs, CO
Any questions?
I was addressing that to "fake Pie".
SWR | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:23 pm | #
Yeah, but you qouted NYMary at the top of the post as if you pasted something she said that you wanted to respond to but responded to fake pie instead.
I think that's where the confusion came from.
I was addressing that to "fake Pie".
SWR | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 9:23 pm | #
Yeah, but you qouted NYMary at the top of the post as if you pasted something she said that you wanted to respond to but responded to fake pie instead.
I think that's where the confusion came from.
Most alcoholics are sure everbody drinks all the time...
ummmm, wait. you're sayin' they DON'T? oh fuck, man, that's bad news...cuz that was how i was tryin' to 'splain why stuff's so fucked up... o shit...that's really bad news...man, i need a fuckin drink...
Most alcoholics are sure everbody drinks all the time...
ummmm, wait. you're sayin' they DON'T? oh fuck, man, that's bad news...cuz that was how i was tryin' to 'splain why stuff's so fucked up... o shit...that's really bad news...man, i need a fuckin drink...
I was addressing that to "fake Pie".
SWR
Gotcha. Thers and I were much confused, but he suspected the truth.
I was addressing that to "fake Pie".
SWR
Gotcha. Thers and I were much confused, but he suspected the truth.
Ok. Look. No one believes that is your real address. No one by a complete idiot would put out his own address on an internet discussion board. Really. Try again.
Ok. Look. No one believes that is your real address. No one by a complete idiot would put out his own address on an internet discussion board. Really. Try again.
Check your premises "C'mon"
Check your premises "C'mon"
FWIW, I think Colorado Springs is the typical military/corporate town which embodies the whole Walmart/McDonald's culture of America in Fast Food Nation.
FWIW, I think Colorado Springs is the typical military/corporate town which embodies the whole Walmart/McDonald's culture of America in Fast Food Nation.
*smacking forehead* Of course! The dipstick posting as "fake pie" is the same loser who formerly posted as Anonymous (Anon-A-Troll).
I'd heard Atrios has a mechanism for banning anonymous posts now, so no wonder the infant is soiling his doidies. He had about 5 tricks and just lost one of them, the clever "oops! you can't tell it's me 'cause I'm anonymous and I pushed the button before filling in my name, blather, blather..."
So instead, he just falls back on #3, general misogyny and comments attacking either pie, Hecate, or Tena if they're present. Yawn.
-
*smacking forehead* Of course! The dipstick posting as "fake pie" is the same loser who formerly posted as Anonymous (Anon-A-Troll).
I'd heard Atrios has a mechanism for banning anonymous posts now, so no wonder the infant is soiling his doidies. He had about 5 tricks and just lost one of them, the clever "oops! you can't tell it's me 'cause I'm anonymous and I pushed the button before filling in my name, blather, blather..."
So instead, he just falls back on #3, general misogyny and comments attacking either pie, Hecate, or Tena if they're present.