HULK SMASH!!!
can i frist my own post?
can i frist my own post?
?
A person who has privileges to post articles does a lame ass thing like frist in the comments?
Atrios be baggin u when he gets home.
?
A person who has privileges to post articles does a lame ass thing like frist in the comments?
Atrios be baggin u when he gets home.
MEMRI are the band of goofs responsible for originating that erroneous "OBL threatens only states that vote for Der Chimperer" from the pre-election video. Big-time neocon tools, so "out there" that even fascist fronts like the Bradley Foundation gave up on funding them.
-
MEMRI are the band of goofs responsible for originating that erroneous "OBL threatens only states that vote for Der Chimperer" from the pre-election video. Big-time neocon tools, so "out there" that even fascist fronts like the Bradley Foundation gave up on funding them.
-
Two other main points from Cole:
I will add another criticism of MEMRI, which is that it systematically violates the intellectual property of Arab writers by appropriating their content without paying for it and storing them on its servers, and then claiming copyright in their work as translated! This is a shameful way of proceeding. Where the source articles are published in a country that is signatory to the major international copyright agreements, it may be illegal. All sites dealing in other languages do quote or translate from time to time, which falls under fair use. But MEMRI has a much more systematic set of appropriations going.
MEMRI has begun taking out blog ads. Since it can hardly go about threatening bloggers with lawsuits without violating the essential spirit of open discourse on the Web, it has forfeited any claim on our eyeballs. I urge all bloggers to decline advertisements from MEMRI until such time as Colonel Carmon withdraws his outrageous threat.
Two other main points from Cole:
I will add another criticism of MEMRI, which is that it systematically violates the intellectual property of Arab writers by appropriating their content without paying for it and storing them on its servers, and then claiming copyright in their work as translated! This is a shameful way of proceeding. Where the source articles are published in a country that is signatory to the major international copyright agreements, it may be illegal. All sites dealing in other languages do quote or translate from time to time, which falls under fair use. But MEMRI has a much more systematic set of appropriations going.
MEMRI has begun taking out blog ads. Since it can hardly go about threatening bloggers with lawsuits without violating the essential spirit of open discourse on the Web, it has forfeited any claim on our eyeballs. I urge all bloggers to decline advertisements from MEMRI until such time as Colonel Carmon withdraws his outrageous threat.
Intimidation borne of desperation.
You can smell the perspiration.
Intimidation borne of desperation.
You can smell the perspiration.
Upyernoz, good work, frist if you will: this ain't exactly the Olympic Games. Just have fun!
My letter of protest under my far more respectable professional header goes out tomorrow. MEMRI is being thuggish. Their threat to Professor Cole is outrageous.
Upyernoz, good work, frist if you will: this ain't exactly the Olympic Games. Just have fun!
My letter of protest under my far more respectable professional header goes out tomorrow. MEMRI is being thuggish. Their threat to Professor Cole is outrageous.
Sir,
As a Jew and a supporter of the State of Israel, which stands for democracy, free speech and free academic inquiry, I find MEMRI's threat of a lawsuit against Prof. Cole and the University of Michigan shameful.
Attempting to silence one's critics with vague accusations of libel instead of engaging in debate is essentially anti-democratic.
Since the ultimate defense against libel is the truth, why doesn't MEMRI simply release the amount and sources of its funding, in the interest of rebutting Prof. Cole's figure if it was wrong, and in the interest of democratic transparency which MEMRI so obviously cherishes?
Sincerely,
Sir,
As a Jew and a supporter of the State of Israel, which stands for democracy, free speech and free academic inquiry, I find MEMRI's threat of a lawsuit against Prof. Cole and the University of Michigan shameful.
Attempting to silence one's critics with vague accusations of libel instead of engaging in debate is essentially anti-democratic.
Since the ultimate defense against libel is the truth, why doesn't MEMRI simply release the amount and sources of its funding, in the interest of rebutting Prof. Cole's figure if it was wrong, and in the interest of democratic transparency which MEMRI so obviously cherishes?
Sincerely,
My letter of protest under my far more respectable professional header goes out tomorrow. MEMRI is being thuggish. Their threat to Professor Cole is outrageous.
Same goes.
My letter of protest under my far more respectable professional header goes out tomorrow. MEMRI is being thuggish. Their threat to Professor Cole is outrageous.
Same goes.
Central Scrutinizer
I am coming to the conclusion the right and its allies are in a quiet but firm panic. Their house is slowly sinking into the swamp they created.
Central Scrutinizer
I am coming to the conclusion the right and its allies are in a quiet but firm panic. Their house is slowly sinking into the swamp they created.
OT,
Carrot or stick?
Powell: U.S. Open to Eventually Restoring Ties with Iran
Powell's appeasing tone came after Iran on Monday met international demands to suspending uranium enrichment activities, which in part have motivated U.S. accusations Tehran is pursuing a nuclear bomb.
OT,
Carrot or stick?
Powell: U.S. Open to Eventually Restoring Ties with Iran
Powell's appeasing tone came after Iran on Monday met international demands to suspending uranium enrichment activities, which in part have motivated U.S. accusations Tehran is pursuing a nuclear bomb.
Use that megaphone dude!!
Use that megaphone dude!!
Dumb question, why are we wasting letters to them, why not to the press? Look these folks are trying to stifle freedom of expression. They are picking on this one little ol poor professor who voiced his opinion....
Dumb question, why are we wasting letters to them, why not to the press? Look these folks are trying to stifle freedom of expression. They are picking on this one little ol poor professor who voiced his opinion....
hey! i never claimed to be anything other than lame-ass.
official lawyer answer: i didn't technically frist. i just asked a question.
hey! i never claimed to be anything other than lame-ass.
official lawyer answer: i didn't technically frist. i just asked a question.
I don't agree with MEMRI's lawsuit, or "SLAPP" lawsuits in general, but I think accusing MEMRI of cherry-picking is stupid. The point isn't to translate EVERY thing written in the Arabic-language media, it's to translate noteworthy, out of the ordinary things, especially those we find disturbing. Accusing them of cherry-picking is like getting mad that newspapers publish more stories about people getting shot, than about people who lock their guns in safes every night. One is newsworthy, the other is not.
This, from Juan Cole, is particularly idiotic:
"On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigotted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the Web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated."
Can you imagine if the New York Times published articles by David Duke types hard-core bashing black people, even once a month or so. (say 4 op-eds/day, 30 days/month, this would be only 1 out of 120 op-eds), and then claimed this was ok because he was sharing the page with tolerant columnists krugman, dowd, etc? Do you think people in other countries would be "cherry-picking" by speaking out about it?
I don't agree with MEMRI's lawsuit, or "SLAPP" lawsuits in general, but I think accusing MEMRI of cherry-picking is stupid. The point isn't to translate EVERY thing written in the Arabic-language media, it's to translate noteworthy, out of the ordinary things, especially those we find disturbing. Accusing them of cherry-picking is like getting mad that newspapers publish more stories about people getting shot, than about people who lock their guns in safes every night. One is newsworthy, the other is not.
This, from Juan Cole, is particularly idiotic:
"On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigotted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the Web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated."
Can you imagine if the New York Times published articles by David Duke types hard-core bashing black people, even once a month or so. (say 4 op-eds/day, 30 days/month, this would be only 1 out of 120 op-eds), and then claimed this was ok because he was sharing the page with tolerant columnists krugman, dowd, etc? Do you think people in other countries would be "cherry-picking" by speaking out about it?
Dumb question, why are we wasting letters to them, why not to the press?
Good point.
I'm copying my letter to the Chronicle of Higher Education, and I encourage anyone else here with an academic affiliation to do the same.
Dumb question, why are we wasting letters to them, why not to the press?
Good point.
I'm copying my letter to the Chronicle of Higher Education, and I encourage anyone else here with an academic affiliation to do the same.
Awww Juan Cole, who has repeatedly and falsely accused critics of being 'likud operatives' is crying foul? cry me a river.
Awww Juan Cole, who has repeatedly and falsely accused critics of being 'likud operatives' is crying foul? cry me a river.
Well, look at you, Noz, hot stuff on Atrios' blog. LOL having fun?
Well, look at you, Noz, hot stuff on Atrios' blog. LOL having fun?
Their house is slowly sinking into the swamp they created.
EkCenTrik,
That's what I'm thinking too. Check out my post at 9:50. Is that curious or what?
Their house is slowly sinking into the swamp they created.
EkCenTrik,
That's what I'm thinking too. Check out my post at 9:50. Is that curious or what?
A person who has privileges to post articles does a lame ass thing like frist in the comments? - give it to im this time. That shit be crackin me up.
A person who has privileges to post articles does a lame ass thing like frist in the comments? - give it to im this time. That shit be crackin me up.
Yet another case destined to NOT be mentioned in support of tort "reform".
Three words Sharon vs. Times.
Yet another case destined to NOT be mentioned in support of tort "reform".
Three words Sharon vs. Times.
Point of information.
The director of Memri is married to guess who?
And no it's not Cheney.
Point of information.
The director of Memri is married to guess who?
And no it's not Cheney.
The point isn't to translate EVERY thing written in the Arabic-language media, it's to translate noteworthy, out of the ordinary things, especially those we find disturbing.
Yeah, it's almost like MEMRI is cherry picking articles in the Arab press.
The point isn't to translate EVERY thing written in the Arabic-language media, it's to translate noteworthy, out of the ordinary things, especially those we find disturbing.
Yeah, it's almost like MEMRI is cherry picking articles in the Arab press.
lisa,
it is cherry picking when (for example) you post an article about how the anniversary of 9/11 is depicted in the arab press and only translate the negative articles when there are other points of view being published. MEMRI regularly reports the "reaction in the arab media to ____". it's simply dishonest if they disregard the bits that don't support their point.
lisa,
it is cherry picking when (for example) you post an article about how the anniversary of 9/11 is depicted in the arab press and only translate the negative articles when there are other points of view being published. MEMRI regularly reports the "reaction in the arab media to ____". it's simply dishonest if they disregard the bits that don't support their point.
Central S
What next Castro gets a night in the Lincoln Room?
Central S
What next Castro gets a night in the Lincoln Room?
Old Hat:
All organizations that criticize media "cherry-pick". NOW criticizes articles / incidents / statements by officials that they find sexist, the NAACP criticizes those they find racist. The point of an organization that criticizes politicians or media or academia or whatever is to CRITICIZE not to pat on the back everytime they don't screw up.
Old Hat:
All organizations that criticize media "cherry-pick". NOW criticizes articles / incidents / statements by officials that they find sexist, the NAACP criticizes those they find racist. The point of an organization that criticizes politicians or media or academia or whatever is to CRITICIZE not to pat on the back everytime they don't screw up.
El loco is back! Banned from the webmaster for several months, I'm back and with seething vengeance. By the way upyernoz, I did my civic duty and contacted memri on your sound advice supporting Professor Cole.
El loco is back! Banned from the webmaster for several months, I'm back and with seething vengeance. By the way upyernoz, I did my civic duty and contacted memri on your sound advice supporting Professor Cole.
Old Hat, do you find Atrios to be 'cherry picking' the right wing media with his posts? Does this 'ipso facto' make him a Communist party operative? Should we know exactly how much Duncan Black is paid for his efforts, and guess at a ridiculously large number if he doesnt tell us?
WHo again is the real mccarthyite here?
Old Hat, do you find Atrios to be 'cherry picking' the right wing media with his posts? Does this 'ipso facto' make him a Communist party operative? Should we know exactly how much Duncan Black is paid for his efforts, and guess at a ridiculously large number if he doesnt tell us?
WHo again is the real mccarthyite here?
Furthermore, Lisa, if MEMRI was serious about supporting reform in Arab states, which it is not, its goal would be to give a voice to Arab moderates and reformers in the West.
MEMRI does not do this.
Why does MEMRI's modus operandi smack of an anti-Arab propaganda factory?
Furthermore, Lisa, if MEMRI was serious about supporting reform in Arab states, which it is not, its goal would be to give a voice to Arab moderates and reformers in the West.
MEMRI does not do this.
Why does MEMRI's modus operandi smack of an anti-Arab propaganda factory?
WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!
WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!
"UPYERNOZ" IS NOT US!
WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!
WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!
"UPYERNOZ" IS NOT US!
'its goal would be to give a voice to Arab moderates and reformers in the West.
MEMRI does not do this. '
A complete fabrication. DO you read the MEMRI page? DId you read their letter to Cole?
'its goal would be to give a voice to Arab moderates and reformers in the West.
MEMRI does not do this. '
A complete fabrication. DO you read the MEMRI page? DId you read their letter to Cole?
WHo again is the real mccarthyite here?
MesaMan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 10:00 pm | #.
When was the last time Black threatened to sue a critic?
WHo again is the real mccarthyite here?
MesaMan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 10:00 pm | #.
When was the last time Black threatened to sue a critic?
Point of information.
The director of Memri is married to guess who?
And no it's not Cheney.
Oh, it's just getting too incestous in this administration!
Point of information.
The director of Memri is married to guess who?
And no it's not Cheney.
Oh, it's just getting too incestous in this administration!
Old Hat, do you find Atrios to be 'cherry picking' the right wing media with his posts?
WHo again is the real mccarthyite here?
Is Atrios filing lawsuits against everyone and anyone who criticizes him or calls him, variously, a "faggot" or a "conspiracy theorist"? Does Atrios have a phalanx of lawyers and lobbyists in cold storage in his basement? Does he have millions of dollars?
Of course not.
Atrios is a dude with a dial up connection and a piece of free software.
If one guy is this threatening to the right wing noise machine, then your team has a serious, serious problem.
Old Hat, do you find Atrios to be 'cherry picking' the right wing media with his posts?
WHo again is the real mccarthyite here?
Is Atrios filing lawsuits against everyone and anyone who criticizes him or calls him, variously, a "faggot" or a "conspiracy theorist"? Does Atrios have a phalanx of lawyers and lobbyists in cold storage in his basement? Does he have millions of dollars?
Of course not.
Atrios is a dude with a dial up connection and a piece of free software.
If one guy is this threatening to the right wing noise machine, then your team has a serious, serious problem.
Cherry picking is the rule instead of the exception. There aren't many places that don't do it. The problem is that nearly our entire media have the same point of view.
There is a question that could be asked, if this is the viewpoint held by the vast majority of Arabs; one, what does that mean for policy, two, what can be done to change it.
If this way of looking at the problem was going to get good results it would have decades ago. It's just an invitation to support the arms industy and their clients. A guarantee that more Jews and Arabs will end up dead.
Cherry picking is the rule instead of the exception. There aren't many places that don't do it. The problem is that nearly our entire media have the same point of view.
There is a question that could be asked, if this is the viewpoint held by the vast majority of Arabs; one, what does that mean for policy, two, what can be done to change it.
If this way of looking at the problem was going to get good results it would have decades ago. It's just an invitation to support the arms industy and their clients. A guarantee that more Jews and Arabs will end up dead.
Cherry-picking is wrong. I remember a time when you could actually be educated by the news.
Cherry-picking is wrong. I remember a time when you could actually be educated by the news.
*lol* I guess by MesaMan's definition, The Financial Times are Communist Operatives for openly criticising the moronic messes of the Busheviks proffered as fiscal policy. *lol*
*lol* I guess by MesaMan's definition, The Financial Times are Communist Operatives for openly criticising the moronic messes of the Busheviks proffered as fiscal policy. *lol*
Comparing Atrios to MEMRI would require-
-some kind of "silencing" sought by Atrios of...anyone. All we remember Atrios seeking in the way of "silencing" was that lies be pointed out as such, that people like Russert and Carlson not be allowed to spew outright disproven lies as accepted conventional wisdom.
-a sort of linguistic monopoly. MEMRI is, like the pogromming Talmudic translators, specifically seeking an audience that is willing to believe the worst and unable to fact-check. While Limpballs and Savage Weiner may have taught us to expect horrors, we don't have that on Atrios' word alone.
-a record of lying/failure (impossible for Atrios with the instant fact-checking of the hyperlink, but perpetually possible for MEMRI with widespread ignorance of Arabic).
By the way, if you're really interested in a survey of Arabic extremist propaganda, Feral House publishes Adam Parfrey's excellent "Extreme Islam," which actually includes nastiness from all three major regional religions as well as good background, a glossary and a wide sampling.
Comparing Atrios to MEMRI would require-
-some kind of "silencing" sought by Atrios of...anyone. All we remember Atrios seeking in the way of "silencing" was that lies be pointed out as such, that people like Russert and Carlson not be allowed to spew outright disproven lies as accepted conventional wisdom.
-a sort of linguistic monopoly. MEMRI is, like the pogromming Talmudic translators, specifically seeking an audience that is willing to believe the worst and unable to fact-check. While Limpballs and Savage Weiner may have taught us to expect horrors, we don't have that on Atrios' word alone.
-a record of lying/failure (impossible for Atrios with the instant fact-checking of the hyperlink, but perpetually possible for MEMRI with widespread ignorance of Arabic).
By the way, if you're really interested in a survey of Arabic extremist propaganda, Feral House publishes Adam Parfrey's excellent "Extreme Islam," which actually includes nastiness from all three major regional religions as well as good background, a glossary and a wide sampling.
DO you read the MEMRI page?
Did you bother to read MEMRI during the run up to the Iraq war? It was a non-stop propaganda mill. These guys are a political pump and dump operation for the Bush boys. If you don't understand how a shop like MEMRI works, you laughably naive.
DO you read the MEMRI page?
Did you bother to read MEMRI during the run up to the Iraq war? It was a non-stop propaganda mill. These guys are a political pump and dump operation for the Bush boys. If you don't understand how a shop like MEMRI works, you laughably naive.
K and Y, hang in there!
There is a way out!
and, yes we are truly screwed!
K and Y, hang in there!
There is a way out!
and, yes we are truly screwed!
re: the cherry picking issue
as far as i am concerned it's an issue of how MEMRI presents what it rights. if Atrios claimed to survey the entire landscape of public opinion of the u.s. but only published liberal things, then yes, that would be cherry picking. if the NAACP said the american media is thoroughly racist and then exerpts the articles that are, but ignores those that are not, then that would be cherry picking.
all MEMRI has to do to stop cherry picking is to stop claiming to portray what "the arab world" is saying.
re: the cherry picking issue
as far as i am concerned it's an issue of how MEMRI presents what it rights. if Atrios claimed to survey the entire landscape of public opinion of the u.s. but only published liberal things, then yes, that would be cherry picking. if the NAACP said the american media is thoroughly racist and then exerpts the articles that are, but ignores those that are not, then that would be cherry picking.
all MEMRI has to do to stop cherry picking is to stop claiming to portray what "the arab world" is saying.
Attempting to silence one's critics with vague accusations of libel instead of engaging in debate is essentially anti-democratic.
Cole has it right. The fact that there is no legal substance to the threat is what marks it as a SLAPP suit. But it goes beyond that by threatening to include in its action Cole's employer
As such, we demand that you retract the false statements you have made about MEMRI. If you will not do so, we will be forced to pursue legal action against you personally and against the University of Michigan, which the article identifies you as an employee of. We hope this will not be necessary. Sincerely, [signed] Yigal Carmon
This is an attack on free speech and academic freedom. I have sent my letter to memri@memri.org
Attempting to silence one's critics with vague accusations of libel instead of engaging in debate is essentially anti-democratic.
Cole has it right. The fact that there is no legal substance to the threat is what marks it as a SLAPP suit. But it goes beyond that by threatening to include in its action Cole's employer
As such, we demand that you retract the false statements you have made about MEMRI. If you will not do so, we will be forced to pursue legal action against you personally and against the University of Michigan, which the article identifies you as an employee of. We hope this will not be necessary. Sincerely, [signed] Yigal Carmon
This is an attack on free speech and academic freedom. I have sent my letter to memri@memri.org
Monica A - " Oh, it's just getting too incestous in this administration!"
Rather like a court, no?
Monica A - " Oh, it's just getting too incestous in this administration!"
Rather like a court, no?
MEMRI, an organization I am mostly familiar with because of its inaccurate arabic translations
I followed all your links and saw no examples of inaccurate translations. In fact, I saw no translations of any type.
Where is the correct translation so I can compare it with MEMRI's erroneous one!?
MEMRI, an organization I am mostly familiar with because of its inaccurate arabic translations
I followed all your links and saw no examples of inaccurate translations. In fact, I saw no translations of any type.
Where is the correct translation so I can compare it with MEMRI's erroneous one!?
Why polite? These people are fanatical Likkudniks draped in "respectable" academic clothing. I have no time for these people.
Give it to them full force.
Why polite? These people are fanatical Likkudniks draped in "respectable" academic clothing. I have no time for these people.
Give it to them full force.
The tactic itself is insulting. Think of the hundred "Aryan physicists" Hitler threw together to attack Einstein as a quack, and Einstein's response that the way science works, you don't need a hundred people; if you have any truth to your claim (or proof of untruth to another's), all you'd need would be one. If MEMRI had a real case, they'd already be in court, and if they had a real academic case they'd take it to the people in the flat hats.
The tactic itself is insulting. Think of the hundred "Aryan physicists" Hitler threw together to attack Einstein as a quack, and Einstein's response that the way science works, you don't need a hundred people; if you have any truth to your claim (or proof of untruth to another's), all you'd need would be one. If MEMRI had a real case, they'd already be in court, and if they had a real academic case they'd take it to the people in the flat hats.
No, Tom, but using Cole's logic perhaps they would be. COle has a nasty habit of referring to all non-left-wing Israelis as Likud or Mossad operatives (nb martin krameR), which could be confused for factual inaccuracy or even libel by somewhat more critical readers.
sorry for confusing any of you for one of them. It won't happen again.
No, Tom, but using Cole's logic perhaps they would be. COle has a nasty habit of referring to all non-left-wing Israelis as Likud or Mossad operatives (nb martin krameR), which could be confused for factual inaccuracy or even libel by somewhat more critical readers.
sorry for confusing any of you for one of them. It won't happen again.
Why polite? These people are fanatical Likkudniks draped in "respectable" academic clothing. I have no time for these people.
Give it to them full force.
No, be polite.
Why polite? These people are fanatical Likkudniks draped in "respectable" academic clothing. I have no time for these people.
Give it to them full force.
No, be polite.
I followed all your links and saw no examples of inaccurate translations. In fact, I saw no translations of any type.
To put it as bluntly as possible, MEMRI is being highly disingenuous to claim that Osama bin Laden supposedly was saying that he would attack American states which voted for Bush but not those which voted for Kerry.
But as far as a full transcript of the piece referred to writ in blood and witnessed by seven hobbits signing in red ink, no, all he provided was three or four trolls.
I followed all your links and saw no examples of inaccurate translations. In fact, I saw no translations of any type.
To put it as bluntly as possible, MEMRI is being highly disingenuous to claim that Osama bin Laden supposedly was saying that he would attack American states which voted for Bush but not those which voted for Kerry.
But as far as a full transcript of the piece referred to writ in blood and witnessed by seven hobbits signing in red ink, no, all he provided was three or four trolls.
'Likkudniks '
">better term needed.
'Likkudniks '
">better term needed.
COle has a nasty habit of referring to all non-left-wing Israelis as Likud or Mossad operatives (nb martin krameR), which could be confused for factual inaccuracy or even libel by somewhat more critical readers.
Above you compared Black to Memri.
Look at it this way. Black never presents himself as anything other than a pro-Kerry, liberal partisan. That's his position. Take it or leave it.
Memri tries to portray itself as an "objective" organization with no political agenda. If they presented themselves as Bush partisans, then you'd have a point.
COle has a nasty habit of referring to all non-left-wing Israelis as Likud or Mossad operatives (nb martin krameR), which could be confused for factual inaccuracy or even libel by somewhat more critical readers.
Above you compared Black to Memri.
Look at it this way. Black never presents himself as anything other than a pro-Kerry, liberal partisan. That's his position. Take it or leave it.
Memri tries to portray itself as an "objective" organization with no political agenda. If they presented themselves as Bush partisans, then you'd have a point.
Be polite because these people are like fucking Scientologists, and as soon as your tone drops below Honor and Respect and your countenance shifts from what Germans like to see on their Slavic neighbor's faces, it will be seized and held up as proof that America in 2004 is Nuremburg in 1937. And also because there is no advantage in venting to them, and it will shame the rascals tro see how adults settle disputes. But also because they will fuck you as soon as they see an opening. That is after all the central issue. Norman Finkelstein completed his work at Princeton but couldn't receive his degree properly simply because of the hue and cry from people not only disagreeing with his politics but feeling strongly that his academic merit should be forgotten and his career flushed because of them. He's since recovered and is teaching at DuPaul in Illinois, but that's kind of an example of what they do: make all kinds of noise and screw with lives, like a major corporation trying to silence critics--and the whole thing is unfairly stacked agaist any little people who decide to give them lip. Ever seen Silkwood?
Be polite because these people are like fucking Scientologists, and as soon as your tone drops below Honor and Respect and your countenance shifts from what Germans like to see on their Slavic neighbor's faces, it will be seized and held up as proof that America in 2004 is Nuremburg in 1937. And also because there is no advantage in venting to them, and it will shame the rascals tro see how adults settle disputes. But also because they will fuck you as soon as they see an opening. That is after all the central issue. Norman Finkelstein completed his work at Princeton but couldn't receive his degree properly simply because of the hue and cry from people not only disagreeing with his politics but feeling strongly that his academic merit should be forgotten and his career flushed because of them. He's since recovered and is teaching at DuPaul in Illinois, but that's kind of an example of what they do: make all kinds of noise and screw with lives, like a major corporation trying to silence critics--and the whole thing is unfairly stacked agaist any little people who decide to give them lip. Ever seen Silkwood?
"Mesa-Man" has got himself a little anti-Cole blog going here
Take a look, if you're in the mood for a plethora of ineffable insinuations.
"Mesa-Man" has got himself a little anti-Cole blog going here
Take a look, if you're in the mood for a plethora of ineffable insinuations.
'Likkudniks '
">better term needed.
MesaMan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 10:21 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Is the careless use of the term "Likudnik" really any different from the leftist use of the terms "Republicrats" or "Kerrycrats"?
You can imagine an anti-semitic agenda behind it if you like but you're far from proving the point.
All it is is a generic term for "pro-Israel right-winger" the way "Kerrycrat" is a generic term for "establisment Democrat".
'Likkudniks '
">better term needed.
MesaMan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 10:21 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Is the careless use of the term "Likudnik" really any different from the leftist use of the terms "Republicrats" or "Kerrycrats"?
You can imagine an anti-semitic agenda behind it if you like but you're far from proving the point.
All it is is a generic term for "pro-Israel right-winger" the way "Kerrycrat" is a generic term for "establisment Democrat".
I followed all your links and saw no examples of inaccurate translations.
go to the abu aardvark link. AA himself is an arabic speaker and explains how the MEMRI translation of the last bin laden video was inaccurate.
(full disclosure: i am a third year student of arabic and made a lame-assed attempt to translate bin laden's last message myself. i made it part-way through, looking up every other word or so before i called it quits. however, in my meager understanding AA is right in his discussion of "wilayet" vs. "dawla"--at least that's what my wehr says)
I followed all your links and saw no examples of inaccurate translations.
go to the abu aardvark link. AA himself is an arabic speaker and explains how the MEMRI translation of the last bin laden video was inaccurate.
(full disclosure: i am a third year student of arabic and made a lame-assed attempt to translate bin laden's last message myself. i made it part-way through, looking up every other word or so before i called it quits. however, in my meager understanding AA is right in his discussion of "wilayet" vs. "dawla"--at least that's what my wehr says)
MesaMa--
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzz...
MesaMa--
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzz...
There are a few criticisms of MEMRI here, and they can be separated. Cole's criticism that they "cherry-pick" is pretty silly, and struck me as so before I read the posts on this thread. In this sense, Lisa's right that MEMRI is not that much different from Atrios and many other bloggers.
I do think the ceast-and-desist letter or whatever you want to call it to Cole was unnecessary and out of line. In that sense, they are very different from Atrios.
I don't understand why MEMRI has to be exactly like Atrios in every way in order for us to acknowledge that the "cherry-picking" accusation doesn't make much sense.
There are a few criticisms of MEMRI here, and they can be separated. Cole's criticism that they "cherry-pick" is pretty silly, and struck me as so before I read the posts on this thread. In this sense, Lisa's right that MEMRI is not that much different from Atrios and many other bloggers.
I do think the ceast-and-desist letter or whatever you want to call it to Cole was unnecessary and out of line. In that sense, they are very different from Atrios.
I don't understand why MEMRI has to be exactly like Atrios in every way in order for us to acknowledge that the "cherry-picking" accusation doesn't make much sense.
no translations
down in the "trackbacks" there are some links to full transcripts.
no translations
down in the "trackbacks" there are some links to full transcripts.
kei & yuri, do you speak arabic and with precisely which MEMRI translations do you take issue?
kei & yuri, do you speak arabic and with precisely which MEMRI translations do you take issue?
She also cofounded with Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israeli military intelligence, the Middle East Media and Research Institute (MEMRI). According to Jim Lobe, MEMRI specializes in translating and distributing "particularly virulent anti-U.S. and anti-Israel articles appearing in the Arab press to key U.S. media and policymakers." (
According to her Hudson Institute bio, Wurmser "helped to educate policymakers about the Palestinian Authority two-track approach to 'negotiating peace' with Israel: calling for peace in the English press and with western policymakers while inciting hatred and violence through official Arab language media."
Although it describes itself as "non-partisan," MEMRI--which has offices in London, Washington, Jerusalem, and Berlin--has frequently been accused of being nothing more than a propaganda outfit of Israeli intelligence. According the Guardian, which dug up deleted pages from MEMRI's web site through the internet archive, "Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three--including [Yigal] Carmon--are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence. Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army's Northern Command Ordnance Corps, one has an academic background, and the sixth is a former stand-up comedian." (10)
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/i...m/wurmser-
m.php
She also cofounded with Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israeli military intelligence, the Middle East Media and Research Institute (MEMRI). According to Jim Lobe, MEMRI specializes in translating and distributing "particularly virulent anti-U.S. and anti-Israel articles appearing in the Arab press to key U.S. media and policymakers." (
According to her Hudson Institute bio, Wurmser "helped to educate policymakers about the Palestinian Authority two-track approach to 'negotiating peace' with Israel: calling for peace in the English press and with western policymakers while inciting hatred and violence through official Arab language media."
Although it describes itself as "non-partisan," MEMRI--which has offices in London, Washington, Jerusalem, and Berlin--has frequently been accused of being nothing more than a propaganda outfit of Israeli intelligence. According the Guardian, which dug up deleted pages from MEMRI's web site through the internet archive, "Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three--including [Yigal] Carmon--are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence. Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army's Northern Command Ordnance Corps, one has an academic background, and the sixth is a former stand-up comedian." (10)
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/i...m/wurmser-
m.php
dave in nyc: what if we told you that Israelis were murderous racist chauvenist thugs who want to conquer the Levant, and then "backed it up" with quotations, purportedly from the overall mainstream Hebrew press, but actually just from from Meir Kahane and Dr Goldstein and their kind?
dave in nyc: what if we told you that Israelis were murderous racist chauvenist thugs who want to conquer the Levant, and then "backed it up" with quotations, purportedly from the overall mainstream Hebrew press, but actually just from from Meir Kahane and Dr Goldstein and their kind?
"Likudnik" From what I read the Israeli press is a lot freer than the U.S. press in discussing Likud or any other party. Are they anti-Semites?
The attempt to make condemnation of Likud out of bounds seems to be another facet of the "neocon" con of last winter.
It's a really bad idea to make a political party of a self-chosen bunch of ideological hacks for profit a syonym for an entire ethnic or religous group. THAT'S what leads to bigotry. I'd certainly not like it if Republican became another name for American.
Besides, it's a cheap trick to protect the indefensible from the truth about it.
"Likudnik" From what I read the Israeli press is a lot freer than the U.S. press in discussing Likud or any other party. Are they anti-Semites?
The attempt to make condemnation of Likud out of bounds seems to be another facet of the "neocon" con of last winter.
It's a really bad idea to make a political party of a self-chosen bunch of ideological hacks for profit a syonym for an entire ethnic or religous group. THAT'S what leads to bigotry. I'd certainly not like it if Republican became another name for American.
Besides, it's a cheap trick to protect the indefensible from the truth about it.
I don't know. What if you did that?
I don't know. What if you did that?
The letter is risible; this really would be laughed out of court, though I would be amazed if this were really a genuine legal threat and not a rather buffoonish attempt at intimidation.
MEMRI is NOT A SERIOUS ACADEMIC ORGANIZATION.
How do I know this?
Because I read the letter they sent to Juan Cole.
This is a simple statement of fact and not really subject to debate.
The letter is risible; this really would be laughed out of court, though I would be amazed if this were really a genuine legal threat and not a rather buffoonish attempt at intimidation.
MEMRI is NOT A SERIOUS ACADEMIC ORGANIZATION.
How do I know this?
Because I read the letter they sent to Juan Cole.
This is a simple statement of fact and not really subject to debate.
Oh, and I like the part where MEMRI 'translates' the articles, paying no copyright fees, then copyrights those translations! And I've been harping at my kid for plagiarizing schoolwork using the 'net... what a dumbass...
Oh, and I like the part where MEMRI 'translates' the articles, paying no copyright fees, then copyrights those translations! And I've been harping at my kid for plagiarizing schoolwork using the 'net... what a dumbass...
dave in nyc: what if we told you that Israelis were murderous racist chauvenist thugs who want to conquer the Levant, and then "backed it up" with quotations, purportedly from the overall mainstream Hebrew press, but actually just from from Meir Kahane and Dr Goldstein and their kind?
kei & yuri | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 10:31 pm | #
Or if you tried to pass off these photos as somehow represenative of Israelis in general.
dave in nyc: what if we told you that Israelis were murderous racist chauvenist thugs who want to conquer the Levant, and then "backed it up" with quotations, purportedly from the overall mainstream Hebrew press, but actually just from from Meir Kahane and Dr Goldstein and their kind?
kei & yuri | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 10:31 pm | #
Or if you tried to pass off these photos as somehow represenative of Israelis in general.
"what if we told you that Israelis were murderous racist chauvenist thugs who want to conquer the Levant"
requires very little imagination.
"what if we told you that Israelis were murderous racist chauvenist thugs who want to conquer the Levant"
requires very little imagination.
'This is a simple statement of fact and not really subject to debate.'
Oh well that settles it. Cole has very little to worry about, obviously, and any letter writing campaign is wasted effort.
'This is a simple statement of fact and not really subject to debate.'
Oh well that settles it. Cole has very little to worry about, obviously, and any letter writing campaign is wasted effort.
Plateauboy: why do we need to speak Arabic to disapprove of translations condemned by numerous experts far more qualified than we'd get in years? Do you not remember those White House/Pentagon translations where Bin Laden said exactly what the RNC wanted him to...and then they showed the tape to Arabs and "external" experts and nobody outside of a government job accepted the official version, and usually they'd go so far as to say the tapes were unintelligible?
(and actually we started and stopped and have now put it off for a while. Of course we suppose you know what "dhimmi" means and have the "filistiyn mush hawn" T-shirt.)
Plateauboy: why do we need to speak Arabic to disapprove of translations condemned by numerous experts far more qualified than we'd get in years? Do you not remember those White House/Pentagon translations where Bin Laden said exactly what the RNC wanted him to...and then they showed the tape to Arabs and "external" experts and nobody outside of a government job accepted the official version, and usually they'd go so far as to say the tapes were unintelligible?
(and actually we started and stopped and have now put it off for a while. Of course we suppose you know what "dhimmi" means and have the "filistiyn mush hawn" T-shirt.)
I wasn't aware of these guys until the NYP story about Osama's Red State Threat. Going to the about us part of their site and then to the "quotes about us" you will find:
It is to the translations circulated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) that we owe what we have now learned about what appears in Arabic-language newspapers and television broadcasts, as well as what is preached by Islamic clerics in their weekly sermons."
- September 9, 2002, Commentary, Norman Podhoretz
Enuff said.
I wasn't aware of these guys until the NYP story about Osama's Red State Threat. Going to the about us part of their site and then to the "quotes about us" you will find:
It is to the translations circulated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) that we owe what we have now learned about what appears in Arabic-language newspapers and television broadcasts, as well as what is preached by Islamic clerics in their weekly sermons."
- September 9, 2002, Commentary, Norman Podhoretz
Enuff said.
Oh, and I like the part where MEMRI 'translates' the articles, paying no copyright fees, then copyrights those translations!
That really is a grotesque breach of academic practice, whatever the legal justification for it. For MEMRI to be lecturing others about ethics while doing this is pretty amazing.
Oh, and I like the part where MEMRI 'translates' the articles, paying no copyright fees, then copyrights those translations!
That really is a grotesque breach of academic practice, whatever the legal justification for it. For MEMRI to be lecturing others about ethics while doing this is pretty amazing.
Mesa-Mans blog sure is written as if someone is paying him. More than anything else his technique is to insinuate that there is just something wrong with anyone (he has been slapping at Prof. LeVine, too) who might have "Arabist" (as he terms it) sympathies.
Between the two, he doesn't come close to Cole in terms of giving me the impression he is writing with a broad outlook, and a concern for the people involved. He's all snark, bark, and no bite.
Mesa-Mans blog sure is written as if someone is paying him. More than anything else his technique is to insinuate that there is just something wrong with anyone (he has been slapping at Prof. LeVine, too) who might have "Arabist" (as he terms it) sympathies.
Between the two, he doesn't come close to Cole in terms of giving me the impression he is writing with a broad outlook, and a concern for the people involved. He's all snark, bark, and no bite.
Dave, MEMRI is not blogging a checkable media with a declared loyalty in observation of certain parties: they claim to be introducing non-Arabic speakers to what the Arabic mainstream really is about. When they purport to do that and return with Sharon's irrational camel salesmen who "will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hate us" and who cannot be relied upon or negotiated with, and Cole and other experts can point to other voices, that is cherry-picking. Has Atrios ever tried to sell you on the evil filthy Americans who can only orgasm when bombing children?
Dave, MEMRI is not blogging a checkable media with a declared loyalty in observation of certain parties: they claim to be introducing non-Arabic speakers to what the Arabic mainstream really is about. When they purport to do that and return with Sharon's irrational camel salesmen who "will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hate us" and who cannot be relied upon or negotiated with, and Cole and other experts can point to other voices, that is cherry-picking. Has Atrios ever tried to sell you on the evil filthy Americans who can only orgasm when bombing children?
Where has MEMRI said anything about how the racist stuff they translate represents 'Arabs in general' or 'Muslims in general?" or even anything close?
You would be quite right to bring attention to the extremist rhetoric of Kahane, obviously! And I would hope your readers wouldn't draw the same silly overbroad conclusion that it represents 'all Israelis.'
that guardian article was pretty shabby, btw. here,
better piece by reason editor tim cavanaugh on MEMRI
Where has MEMRI said anything about how the racist stuff they translate represents 'Arabs in general' or 'Muslims in general?" or even anything close?
You would be quite right to bring attention to the extremist rhetoric of Kahane, obviously! And I would hope your readers wouldn't draw the same silly overbroad conclusion that it represents 'all Israelis.'
that guardian article was pretty shabby, btw. here,
better piece by reason editor tim cavanaugh on MEMRI
Oh well that settles it. Cole has very little to worry about, obviously, and any letter writing campaign is wasted effort.
No, beause this is primarily a question of MEMRI's reputation, not Cole's.
Their reputation after this deserves to be that of a common thug. Their absurd and disgraceful letter deserves to have them made a fit subject for ridicule in academic circles. Nobody from here on out should unwittingly cite them as a reputable source. That would be to the detriment of scholarship, public policy, and common decency.
Dickhead.
Oh well that settles it. Cole has very little to worry about, obviously, and any letter writing campaign is wasted effort.
No, beause this is primarily a question of MEMRI's reputation, not Cole's.
Their reputation after this deserves to be that of a common thug. Their absurd and disgraceful letter deserves to have them made a fit subject for ridicule in academic circles. Nobody from here on out should unwittingly cite them as a reputable source. That would be to the detriment of scholarship, public policy, and common decency.
Dickhead.
There is a difference here that is more fundamental. With Atrios, he will only post part of something, true, but he links to the rest of it and we can read it because it is in English and then we can decide if Atrios' interpretation it one we can agree with. I"ve seen many times when people did not agree.
With a translator, we do not have the luxury of being able to go to the source ourselves. So cherry picking here is different - it tinkers with the meaning of words. And we can't check ourselves to see if we agree.
There is a difference here that is more fundamental. With Atrios, he will only post part of something, true, but he links to the rest of it and we can read it because it is in English and then we can decide if Atrios' interpretation it one we can agree with. I"ve seen many times when people did not agree.
With a translator, we do not have the luxury of being able to go to the source ourselves. So cherry picking here is different - it tinkers with the meaning of words. And we can't check ourselves to see if we agree.
copyrighting a translation is somehow unethical or non standard? lol
fyi beirut to bayside isnt my blog, but Tony Badran's (lebanese, fyi).
copyrighting a translation is somehow unethical or non standard? lol
fyi beirut to bayside isnt my blog, but Tony Badran's (lebanese, fyi).
Can you guys point me to other instances of inaccuracy at MEMRI.org?
Can you guys point me to other instances of inaccuracy at MEMRI.org?
It's a really bad idea to make a political party of a self-chosen bunch of ideological hacks for profit a syonym for an entire ethnic or religous group.
Who is doing this? Since when does the Hillel make you foment war, commit treason, lie about weapons of mass destruction, undermine or defy international
ahem
LAW
'cause we all know if there is anything that defines "Judaism" it is "breakin' the law, breakin' the law..." Is there any evidence whatsoever to this crap about hatred of fascists who happen to be claiming to represent "world Jewry" being hatred of "world Jewry"? Isn't that a heinous granting of their disgusting little premise?
Although if you meant that Labor really isn't so different from Likud, the same way Democrats have some depressing shared traits with Republicans, you're right. Although somehow Likud/Republicans manage to come out uglier anyway.
BTW, check out "MesaMan's" homepage, and tell me he does not have a bee up his ass about Professor Cole.
Take your jihad elsewhere, Tony.
It's a really bad idea to make a political party of a self-chosen bunch of ideological hacks for profit a syonym for an entire ethnic or religous group.
Who is doing this? Since when does the Hillel make you foment war, commit treason, lie about weapons of mass destruction, undermine or defy international
ahem
LAW
'cause we all know if there is anything that defines "Judaism" it is "breakin' the law, breakin' the law..." Is there any evidence whatsoever to this crap about hatred of fascists who happen to be claiming to represent "world Jewry" being hatred of "world Jewry"? Isn't that a heinous granting of their disgusting little premise?
Although if you meant that Labor really isn't so different from Likud, the same way Democrats have some depressing shared traits with Republicans, you're right. Although somehow Likud/Republicans manage to come out uglier anyway.
BTW, check out "MesaMan's" homepage, and tell me he does not have a bee up his ass about Professor Cole.
Take your jihad elsewhere, Tony.
Direct link to full article pointed to by MesaMan
headline for the article reads, "Site doesn't travel very far to cherry-pick offensive comments"
I guess Cole isn't the only one to conclude that MEMRI is just an orgnisation that "cherry picks offensive comments".
Direct link to full article pointed to by MesaMan
headline for the article reads, "Site doesn't travel very far to cherry-pick offensive comments"
I guess Cole isn't the only one to conclude that MEMRI is just an orgnisation that "cherry picks offensive comments".
"Reason" lacks the intellectual heft of "Scholastic Current Events." We were shocked to read a Reason article asserting that the universal failure of globalization (eg, Argentina, a little thing called West Asia, Russia, etc) was just not true. It just wasn't. So there. 1998 never happened. And we looked and looked for their evidence...because we knew nobody could be so dumb as to just sort of declare that, and then walk on...and we looked...at the end, in the paragraphs following the claim...nowhere! It's pornography for laissez-faire cultists and mindless anti-individual Ayn Rand followers.
"Reason" lacks the intellectual heft of "Scholastic Current Events." We were shocked to read a Reason article asserting that the universal failure of globalization (eg, Argentina, a little thing called West Asia, Russia, etc) was just not true. It just wasn't. So there. 1998 never happened. And we looked and looked for their evidence...because we knew nobody could be so dumb as to just sort of declare that, and then walk on...and we looked...at the end, in the paragraphs following the claim...nowhere! It's pornography for laissez-faire cultists and mindless anti-individual Ayn Rand followers.
Maybe copyrighting an accurate version would be admirable, translating something to suit your own ends seems, while maybe strictly legal, well- cheesy. And this outfit MEMRI reeks of gorgonzola.
Just sayin—
Maybe copyrighting an accurate version would be admirable, translating something to suit your own ends seems, while maybe strictly legal, well- cheesy. And this outfit MEMRI reeks of gorgonzola.
Just sayin—
Cole's criticism that they "cherry-pick" is pretty silly, and struck me as so before I read the posts on this thread. In this sense, Lisa's right that MEMRI is not that much different from Atrios and many other bloggers.
No, Dave, you and Lisa are wrong.
Atrios is in the world of English speaking media. If we want to get a more balanced or different point of view, we have a thousand other sources to choose from. What Atrios does is not cherry picking, but specializing in particular things that catch his interest, across a wide range of topics.
It's different when you are dealing with a site that is NOT a blog, but a non-profit org. that is apparently MIS-translating items from the Arabic press, for non-Arabic speakers who have no other source for that information. Also,
Atrios does not violate the fair use doctrine. That's another BIG difference.
Cole's criticism that they "cherry-pick" is pretty silly, and struck me as so before I read the posts on this thread. In this sense, Lisa's right that MEMRI is not that much different from Atrios and many other bloggers.
No, Dave, you and Lisa are wrong.
Atrios is in the world of English speaking media. If we want to get a more balanced or different point of view, we have a thousand other sources to choose from. What Atrios does is not cherry picking, but specializing in particular things that catch his interest, across a wide range of topics.
It's different when you are dealing with a site that is NOT a blog, but a non-profit org. that is apparently MIS-translating items from the Arabic press, for non-Arabic speakers who have no other source for that information. Also,
Atrios does not violate the fair use doctrine. That's another BIG difference.
copyrighting a translation is somehow unethical or non standard? lol
The way MEMRI is doing it? Yes. LOL. It is to laugh.
fyi beirut to bayside isnt my blog, but Tony Badran's (lebanese, fyi).
Then it's not your homepage? Stop linking to it as your homepage then, acushla, and shove your ethics lectures even further up your ass.
copyrighting a translation is somehow unethical or non standard? lol
The way MEMRI is doing it? Yes. LOL. It is to laugh.
fyi beirut to bayside isnt my blog, but Tony Badran's (lebanese, fyi).
Then it's not your homepage? Stop linking to it as your homepage then, acushla, and shove your ethics lectures even further up your ass.
Tom, the full sentence is "site doesnt travel far to cherry pick" meaning they don't have to, the arab press is filled with similar stuff. And yes, Cavanaughs assessment is considerably more fair than the Guardian's hatchet piece.
Mooser, Badran grew up in war-torn Beirut, I'd say he's pretty close to the subject matter.
Tom, the full sentence is "site doesnt travel far to cherry pick" meaning they don't have to, the arab press is filled with similar stuff. And yes, Cavanaughs assessment is considerably more fair than the Guardian's hatchet piece.
Mooser, Badran grew up in war-torn Beirut, I'd say he's pretty close to the subject matter.
So, let me get this straight... people here are willing to take the position that the media material MEMRI translates is not representative of popular Arab public opinion?
So, let me get this straight... people here are willing to take the position that the media material MEMRI translates is not representative of popular Arab public opinion?
'apparently MIS-translating items'
examples please.
'apparently MIS-translating items'
examples please.
So, let me get this straight... people here are willing to take the position that the media material MEMRI translates is not representative of popular Arab public opinion?
No, we're saying that MEMRI's letter to Cole is absurd and thuggish.
So, let me get this straight... people here are willing to take the position that the media material MEMRI translates is not representative of popular Arab public opinion?
No, we're saying that MEMRI's letter to Cole is absurd and thuggish.
See, in the Reason bit linked (by way of Utne Reader, what the hell is up with that? The Internets are truly a strange place), Cox spins it by assreting that while MEMRI is flawed it's one of the only games in town.
Except for the internet.
The TV shows do this all the time: introduce a story about raping Social Security or sincere hand-wringing over Iranian plans to invade Oregon, and no matter how crazy it is (even after admitting it's crap), you say, yes, but these expert-looking men (they could be anchors!) are saying it's our only choice. We must bomb Calcutta until they agree to accept our nuclear waste. We have no choice, we have to be realistic, the clock is ticking. It is just not imaginable to cancel the odious debt of the dictators of the Third World...until we need Iraq's debt cancelled, after we fucked Iraq's oil which should've paid every cent with ease.
See, in the Reason bit linked (by way of Utne Reader, what the hell is up with that? The Internets are truly a strange place), Cox spins it by assreting that while MEMRI is flawed it's one of the only games in town.
Except for the internet.
The TV shows do this all the time: introduce a story about raping Social Security or sincere hand-wringing over Iranian plans to invade Oregon, and no matter how crazy it is (even after admitting it's crap), you say, yes, but these expert-looking men (they could be anchors!) are saying it's our only choice. We must bomb Calcutta until they agree to accept our nuclear waste. We have no choice, we have to be realistic, the clock is ticking. It is just not imaginable to cancel the odious debt of the dictators of the Third World...until we need Iraq's debt cancelled, after we fucked Iraq's oil which should've paid every cent with ease.
examples please.
MesaMan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 10:55 pm | #
Why not just use the one Cole is being hassled by Memri for criticizing, the translation of Osama's latest video?
I don't speak Arabic. Do you consider it accurate?
examples please.
MesaMan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 10:55 pm | #
Why not just use the one Cole is being hassled by Memri for criticizing, the translation of Osama's latest video?
I don't speak Arabic. Do you consider it accurate?
I see.
I agree with that statement.
I see.
I agree with that statement.
ether's a troll, by the way. We once mistook it for esther (a legitimate but now rare commenter), but ether is not really listening.
ether's a troll, by the way. We once mistook it for esther (a legitimate but now rare commenter), but ether is not really listening.
Juan Cole should be sued for libel. He claimed MEMRI was a front for LIKUD when clearly it is a front for the MOSSAD. Duh!
Juan Cole should be sued for libel. He claimed MEMRI was a front for LIKUD when clearly it is a front for the MOSSAD. Duh!
Not mistranslating. Not. But very little translating is word for word - so things have to approximate. Therefore, depending on the frame of reference of the translator, certain words or idioms will fit that frame and he'll choose those rather than others that are equally valid but not in line with that frame.
Not mistranslating. Not. But very little translating is word for word - so things have to approximate. Therefore, depending on the frame of reference of the translator, certain words or idioms will fit that frame and he'll choose those rather than others that are equally valid but not in line with that frame.
Is there any examples besides the Osama tape?
I consider them now 99.9% accurate at this point.
Is there any examples besides the Osama tape?
I consider them now 99.9% accurate at this point.
cavanaugh also lived in beirut and writes for the beirut daily star
cavanaugh also lived in beirut and writes for the beirut daily star
So, let me get this straight... people here are willing to take the position that the media material MEMRI translates is not representative of popular Arab public opinion?
Actually some of the translations they have from the Saudi press are pretty chilling, some of the blood libel articles?
If these are accurate (and I have no reason to believe they're not) shouldn't Bush cut all ties to the Saudis now?
Or are you going to tell me that they're not "representative" of the Saudi government? Because if they are, then Bush is allies and friends with people who are little different from the Nazis in their attitudes towards Jews.
But the problem is Juan Cole right?
So, let me get this straight... people here are willing to take the position that the media material MEMRI translates is not representative of popular Arab public opinion?
Actually some of the translations they have from the Saudi press are pretty chilling, some of the blood libel articles?
If these are accurate (and I have no reason to believe they're not) shouldn't Bush cut all ties to the Saudis now?
Or are you going to tell me that they're not "representative" of the Saudi government? Because if they are, then Bush is allies and friends with people who are little different from the Nazis in their attitudes towards Jews.
But the problem is Juan Cole right?
ether's "mistranslation" business is a trollish deception: look back and you'll see the charge was cherry-picking material, not distorting it.
ether's "mistranslation" business is a trollish deception: look back and you'll see the charge was cherry-picking material, not distorting it.
I'm not sure that our trolls tonight even get why this letter to Cole is so infuriating and disgusting.
They have nothing against him but a possible academic dispute: over the source of MEMRI's funding (as a tort, Cole's right--this is absurd), and over their use of sources.
What they are saying is "if you disagree with us over how we are assessing an academic matter and characterizing our academic mission, we will sue you."
Academic freedom includes the right to disagree, EVEN WRONGLY.
That MEMRI does not understand this means that they have forfeited any right to be taken seriously as an academic organization.
There is no way to debate this. On the issue of their letter to Dr. Cole, they are utterly in the wrong.
I'm not sure that our trolls tonight even get why this letter to Cole is so infuriating and disgusting.
They have nothing against him but a possible academic dispute: over the source of MEMRI's funding (as a tort, Cole's right--this is absurd), and over their use of sources.
What they are saying is "if you disagree with us over how we are assessing an academic matter and characterizing our academic mission, we will sue you."
Academic freedom includes the right to disagree, EVEN WRONGLY.
That MEMRI does not understand this means that they have forfeited any right to be taken seriously as an academic organization.
There is no way to debate this. On the issue of their letter to Dr. Cole, they are utterly in the wrong.
Mesa-Man. I don't doubt his closeness to the subject matter. Or his experience.
Mesa-Man. I don't doubt his closeness to the subject matter. Or his experience.
The funny thing is how completely asinine this threat is. The first element of libel is that the accusations have to hold someone up to serious public ridicule, contempt, hatred or injures their business. How would a report that an organization gets more money than they do harm their business or hold them up to serious public ridicule? The prototypical libel case is one where you have a defendant who said someone has a serious sexual disease. Neither does claiming an organization is closely associated with a very popular political party in Israel.
Now, claiming that the organization cherry-picks their evidence could theoretically bring them some level of disrepute, but that's the author's opinion. You simply cannot press libel claims against opinions. Opinions are exempt from libel charges.
You have to wonder what sort of organization would send out a letter so completely ungrounded in the law, threatening legal action. It's just a bad idea.
The funny thing is how completely asinine this threat is. The first element of libel is that the accusations have to hold someone up to serious public ridicule, contempt, hatred or injures their business. How would a report that an organization gets more money than they do harm their business or hold them up to serious public ridicule? The prototypical libel case is one where you have a defendant who said someone has a serious sexual disease. Neither does claiming an organization is closely associated with a very popular political party in Israel.
Now, claiming that the organization cherry-picks their evidence could theoretically bring them some level of disrepute, but that's the author's opinion. You simply cannot press libel claims against opinions. Opinions are exempt from libel charges.
You have to wonder what sort of organization would send out a letter so completely ungrounded in the law, threatening legal action. It's just a bad idea.
SWR:
Shouldn't Clinton close his library considering it was partially funded by "people who are little different from the Nazis in their attitudes towards Jews?"
But the problem is Bush right?
SWR:
Shouldn't Clinton close his library considering it was partially funded by "people who are little different from the Nazis in their attitudes towards Jews?"
But the problem is Bush right?
ether's a troll, by the way.
Yup.
ether's a troll, by the way.
Yup.
SWR:
Shouldn't Clinton close his library considering it was partially funded by "people who are little different from the Nazis in their attitudes towards Jews?"
But the problem is Bush right?
ether | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 11:03 pm
Considering the fact that Bush is president and Clinton isn't, I'd have to say his relationship to the Saudis is probably a bit more important than Clinton's.
Kerry actually showed some willingness to criticize the Saudis last Summer. I haven't seen the same thing from Bush.
SWR:
Shouldn't Clinton close his library considering it was partially funded by "people who are little different from the Nazis in their attitudes towards Jews?"
But the problem is Bush right?
ether | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 11:03 pm
Considering the fact that Bush is president and Clinton isn't, I'd have to say his relationship to the Saudis is probably a bit more important than Clinton's.
Kerry actually showed some willingness to criticize the Saudis last Summer. I haven't seen the same thing from Bush.
Can't believe I'm reading noz at atrios...
More summary and a bit of MEMRI analysis here if you're looking for more.
They deny cherry-picking, yet their cartoons section is broken down into 4 categories: "Anti American cartoons," "Common anti-semitic cartoons," "Jews and Israelis controlling the U.S. Government," and "Jews and Israelies as Nazis and Hitler."
Not exactly an expansive framework.
Can't believe I'm reading noz at atrios...
More summary and a bit of MEMRI analysis here if you're looking for more.
They deny cherry-picking, yet their cartoons section is broken down into 4 categories: "Anti American cartoons," "Common anti-semitic cartoons," "Jews and Israelis controlling the U.S. Government," and "Jews and Israelies as Nazis and Hitler."
Not exactly an expansive framework.
Thersites
I guess they are uncomfortable with the concept of peer review.
Thersites
I guess they are uncomfortable with the concept of peer review.
How am I a troll?
How am I a troll?
"Reason" lacks the intellectual heft of "Scholastic Current Events."
Cathy Young, for example.
"Reason" lacks the intellectual heft of "Scholastic Current Events."
Cathy Young, for example.
How am I a troll?
Past behavior is a reliable predictor of future conduct?
How am I a troll?
Past behavior is a reliable predictor of future conduct?
So, let me get this straight... people here are willing to take the position that the media material MEMRI translates is not representative of popular Arab public opinion?
Only as much as Ann Coulter is representative of popular US public opinion, or Mark Steyn of Canada.
I know you'd like to think that it is. But then right wingers loooove echo chambers.
So, let me get this straight... people here are willing to take the position that the media material MEMRI translates is not representative of popular Arab public opinion?
Only as much as Ann Coulter is representative of popular US public opinion, or Mark Steyn of Canada.
I know you'd like to think that it is. But then right wingers loooove echo chambers.
We remember the vampire article. Now, the Saudi government (the same thing as the Saudi press) actively uses hatred of Israeli crimes as an outlet for the enormous hatred their constitueny has for them, something like Soviet writing on the US and vice versa. It's trying to be somewhat subtle (if you recall how "subtle" Time and US News could be about the Soyuz back in the day; we pretty much just mean no vampires). Outright supernatural crap is out. The editor claimed he was on vacation at the time, that the thing slipped by the way a TV anchor in the US will sometimes go off on a "my two cents" piece. This is not the same thing as a real Poyntery journalistic integrity thing, but that one example was seen as an embarassing and silly stab too far...by the stabbers.
We remember the vampire article. Now, the Saudi government (the same thing as the Saudi press) actively uses hatred of Israeli crimes as an outlet for the enormous hatred their constitueny has for them, something like Soviet writing on the US and vice versa. It's trying to be somewhat subtle (if you recall how "subtle" Time and US News could be about the Soyuz back in the day; we pretty much just mean no vampires). Outright supernatural crap is out. The editor claimed he was on vacation at the time, that the thing slipped by the way a TV anchor in the US will sometimes go off on a "my two cents" piece. This is not the same thing as a real Poyntery journalistic integrity thing, but that one example was seen as an embarassing and silly stab too far...by the stabbers.
I agreed with Thersites, the letter is absurd and thuggish. That doesn't dispute every translation they provide. They provide a unique window to the murderous rhetoric of some in the Arab press, for the benefit of non-Arabic speakers who may be concerned.
Like Bush, I'm concerned with murderous Islamist rhetoric.
Call me paranoid.
I agreed with Thersites, the letter is absurd and thuggish. That doesn't dispute every translation they provide. They provide a unique window to the murderous rhetoric of some in the Arab press, for the benefit of non-Arabic speakers who may be concerned.
Like Bush, I'm concerned with murderous Islamist rhetoric.
Call me paranoid.
MEMRI is using the same law firm as the one that's working Richard Perle's libel suit against Sy Hersch: Bluff, Bluster and Runn.
MEMRI is using the same law firm as the one that's working Richard Perle's libel suit against Sy Hersch: Bluff, Bluster and Runn.
We remember the vampire article. Now, the Saudi government (the same thing as the Saudi press) actively uses hatred of Israeli crimes as an outlet for the enormous hatred their constitueny has for them, something like Soviet writing on the US and vice versa.
From this point on, the Saudis should always been referred to as "Bush's Friends the Saudis".
I wonder if Ether could explain why Bush is friends and allies with a government that sponsors anti-semtic propaganda.
Is Bush an anti-semite?
We remember the vampire article. Now, the Saudi government (the same thing as the Saudi press) actively uses hatred of Israeli crimes as an outlet for the enormous hatred their constitueny has for them, something like Soviet writing on the US and vice versa.
From this point on, the Saudis should always been referred to as "Bush's Friends the Saudis".
I wonder if Ether could explain why Bush is friends and allies with a government that sponsors anti-semtic propaganda.
Is Bush an anti-semite?
Call me paranoid.
Okay. You're paranoid.
To those in the reality-based world, Bush rhetoric is of great concern.
Call me paranoid.
Okay. You're paranoid.
To those in the reality-based world, Bush rhetoric is of great concern.
' absurd and thuggish'
I think it's absurd and thuggish to tag ideological opponents with unproven (and completely false) political affiliations. And phonying up BS dollar figures to score points with the 'AIPAC' conspiracists.
Like calling liberals "commies" -- only unlike Cole nobody takes right wing cranks like that too seriously. Aren't academics supposed to care about telling the fucking TRUTH??
' absurd and thuggish'
I think it's absurd and thuggish to tag ideological opponents with unproven (and completely false) political affiliations. And phonying up BS dollar figures to score points with the 'AIPAC' conspiracists.
Like calling liberals "commies" -- only unlike Cole nobody takes right wing cranks like that too seriously. Aren't academics supposed to care about telling the fucking TRUTH??
SWR: Considering Clinton's wife is a powerful senator, and probable candidate for President in 08' you should be concerned.
I wish Bush would push harder on the Saudis. But don't try and pretend the Dems would do any better.
Read Robert Baer's Sleeping with the Devil to get fully disgusted.
SWR: Considering Clinton's wife is a powerful senator, and probable candidate for President in 08' you should be concerned.
I wish Bush would push harder on the Saudis. But don't try and pretend the Dems would do any better.
Read Robert Baer's Sleeping with the Devil to get fully disgusted.
SWR: Considering Clinton's wife is a powerful senator, and probable candidate for President in 08' you should be concerned.
I wish Bush would push harder on the Saudis. But don't try and pretend the Dems would do any better.
Who's part of the minority party and (unlike Bush) has absolutely no ties to the oil industry.
Try again.
SWR: Considering Clinton's wife is a powerful senator, and probable candidate for President in 08' you should be concerned.
I wish Bush would push harder on the Saudis. But don't try and pretend the Dems would do any better.
Who's part of the minority party and (unlike Bush) has absolutely no ties to the oil industry.
Try again.
SWR: Considering Clinton's wife is a powerful senator, and probable candidate for President in 08' you should be concerned.
Hahahahaha.
You're silly.
SWR: Considering Clinton's wife is a powerful senator, and probable candidate for President in 08' you should be concerned.
Hahahahaha.
You're silly.
Like Bush, I'm concerned with murderous Islamist rhetoric.
Call me paranoid.
They should not behave like that which they claim to despise.
They have forfeited my respect, as they should yours.
Like Bush, I'm concerned with murderous Islamist rhetoric.
Call me paranoid.
They should not behave like that which they claim to despise.
They have forfeited my respect, as they should yours.
-- only unlike Cole nobody takes right wing cranks like that too seriously. Aren't academics supposed to care about telling the fucking TRUTH??
I'm assuming you're talking about Memri.
Takes them seriously. Their director is married to a close Cheney subordinate.
This is hardly the same as comparing Democrats to the "Peoples Daily Worker".
-- only unlike Cole nobody takes right wing cranks like that too seriously. Aren't academics supposed to care about telling the fucking TRUTH??
I'm assuming you're talking about Memri.
Takes them seriously. Their director is married to a close Cheney subordinate.
This is hardly the same as comparing Democrats to the "Peoples Daily Worker".
If you need evidence that fifty years of unchallenged Israeli crimes and American puppetry, compounded in a crucible of fascistic Arab governments more than happy to channel certain "appropriate" hatreds, can get a flag or two burnt, you're not paranoid--you're retarded. We know there are angry nuts in Arabia; we also know there's Riverbend. Like we said, check out Adam Parfrey's "Extreme Islam." Much better than MEMRI at its own game.
If you need evidence that fifty years of unchallenged Israeli crimes and American puppetry, compounded in a crucible of fascistic Arab governments more than happy to channel certain "appropriate" hatreds, can get a flag or two burnt, you're not paranoid--you're retarded. We know there are angry nuts in Arabia; we also know there's Riverbend. Like we said, check out Adam Parfrey's "Extreme Islam." Much better than MEMRI at its own game.
Ether,
Though you'd be foolish to trust me without knowing me, MEMRI's translations are specious at best. It's a poorly-translated compost of the worst opinion pieces coming out of the Arabic press... Think of an organization dedicated to translating into Arabic the Jerry Falwells, Bob Jones, and other scraps of ideological detritus bobbing around in our local papers, and you've got MEMRI's mission and net worth.
And yes...it's a bridge - but shouldn't you give some pause before trodding over it? Even with an utter lack of knowledge of arabic, you can still parse through the dates, titles, videos, and organization of the site to see that you're getting a pretty simple message: "These people are crazy, and I don't see any translated material to suggest otherwise."
Ether,
Though you'd be foolish to trust me without knowing me, MEMRI's translations are specious at best. It's a poorly-translated compost of the worst opinion pieces coming out of the Arabic press... Think of an organization dedicated to translating into Arabic the Jerry Falwells, Bob Jones, and other scraps of ideological detritus bobbing around in our local papers, and you've got MEMRI's mission and net worth.
And yes...it's a bridge - but shouldn't you give some pause before trodding over it? Even with an utter lack of knowledge of arabic, you can still parse through the dates, titles, videos, and organization of the site to see that you're getting a pretty simple message: "These people are crazy, and I don't see any translated material to suggest otherwise."
SWR:
I refuse to defend the U.S's relationships with the Saudis. Only with partisan blinders can you possibly believe the Republicans are the only party whoring out to petro dollars.
Try stepping out of your reality based commune and into reality.
SWR:
I refuse to defend the U.S's relationships with the Saudis. Only with partisan blinders can you possibly believe the Republicans are the only party whoring out to petro dollars.
Try stepping out of your reality based commune and into reality.
' we also know there's Riverbend. '
just like we know there's a santa claus.
' we also know there's Riverbend. '
just like we know there's a santa claus.
I've been reading Prof. Cole's blog since before the Iraq war. Reading the anti-Cole blog, and now the comments from Mesa-Man, could it be that more than anything else what's involved here is that he seems to be, besides "Informed", a warm, caring voice, and an advocate and explainer of ME events, a Muslim who might start you thinking "these people are not so different from me, and certainly not bloodthirsty savages".
Why, it almost seems like they consider any comment on the Mideast which does not toe the far right Israeli line a threat.
I've been reading Prof. Cole's blog since before the Iraq war. Reading the anti-Cole blog, and now the comments from Mesa-Man, could it be that more than anything else what's involved here is that he seems to be, besides "Informed", a warm, caring voice, and an advocate and explainer of ME events, a Muslim who might start you thinking "these people are not so different from me, and certainly not bloodthirsty savages".
Why, it almost seems like they consider any comment on the Mideast which does not toe the far right Israeli line a threat.
just like we know there's a santa claus
MesaMan, you're a closeminded little man, aren't you?
just like we know there's a santa claus
MesaMan, you're a closeminded little man, aren't you?
It's too bad Juan Cole harangues the A-Man about linkage. It's too bad that Juan has the most unflattering picture ever shot on his website (ok, he has the second most unflattering picture ever taken, my pic in the NY Times was the worst ever). Neither of those artifacts detracts from his arguments concerning how badly the US has fucked up in Iraq.
It's too bad Juan Cole harangues the A-Man about linkage. It's too bad that Juan has the most unflattering picture ever shot on his website (ok, he has the second most unflattering picture ever taken, my pic in the NY Times was the worst ever). Neither of those artifacts detracts from his arguments concerning how badly the US has fucked up in Iraq.
I refuse to defend the U.S's relationships with the Saudis. Only with partisan blinders can you possibly believe the Republicans are the only party whoring out to petro dollars.
Considering they control both houses of Congress, the White House, and (fairly soon) most of the judiaciary, they're also the party that I'm most worried about.
If the Democrats were in power and sucking up to Saudi oil money I'd be more concerned about them. But they're not.
Your side won and now you have to accept responsibility for US foreign policy.
I refuse to defend the U.S's relationships with the Saudis. Only with partisan blinders can you possibly believe the Republicans are the only party whoring out to petro dollars.
Considering they control both houses of Congress, the White House, and (fairly soon) most of the judiaciary, they're also the party that I'm most worried about.
If the Democrats were in power and sucking up to Saudi oil money I'd be more concerned about them. But they're not.
Your side won and now you have to accept responsibility for US foreign policy.
I think it's absurd and thuggish to tag ideological opponents with unproven (and completely false) political affiliations. And phonying up BS dollar figures to score points with the 'AIPAC' conspiracists.
Like calling liberals "commies" -- only unlike Cole nobody takes right wing cranks like that too seriously. Aren't academics supposed to care about telling the fucking TRUTH??
When you threaten to take it to court it's a different ballgame, dumbass. That's not where academic "TRUTH" is supposed to reside.
Jaysus, you are one of the dumber trolls of recent memory... not a single ethical principle to call your own. And a less than cursory comprehension of the law. Gobshite.
I think it's absurd and thuggish to tag ideological opponents with unproven (and completely false) political affiliations. And phonying up BS dollar figures to score points with the 'AIPAC' conspiracists.
Like calling liberals "commies" -- only unlike Cole nobody takes right wing cranks like that too seriously. Aren't academics supposed to care about telling the fucking TRUTH??
When you threaten to take it to court it's a different ballgame, dumbass. That's not where academic "TRUTH" is supposed to reside.
Jaysus, you are one of the dumber trolls of recent memory... not a single ethical principle to call your own. And a less than cursory comprehension of the law. Gobshite.
Bush is indeed an anti-Semite, by virue of being a Born Again Zionist. The Born Again Zionist wants to concentrate all Jews into haaretz, because once you hit the everybody point, Jesus returns and condemns them all to SUFFER PERSECUTION IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!! (cue wiseass Jew remarks about historical redundancy.)
And of course all of us who haven't accepted Baby Jesus into their hearts as their personal lord and savior will be joining them.
Bush is indeed an anti-Semite, by virue of being a Born Again Zionist. The Born Again Zionist wants to concentrate all Jews into haaretz, because once you hit the everybody point, Jesus returns and condemns them all to SUFFER PERSECUTION IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!! (cue wiseass Jew remarks about historical redundancy.)
And of course all of us who haven't accepted Baby Jesus into their hearts as their personal lord and savior will be joining them.
Why, it almost seems like they consider any comment on the Mideast which does not toe the far right Israeli line a threat.
Bingo.
Why, it almost seems like they consider any comment on the Mideast which does not toe the far right Israeli line a threat.
Bingo.
Kirk:
I agree they "cherry pick," but it seems the majority of the press they translate seems to be fairly mainstream, and often, state run. I wish I could compare MEMRI's translations to others but there is no ther translation site I know of. Perhaps someone can start a blog showcasing the inaccuracies of MEMRI and the moderates within the Arab press.
I won't hold my breath.
Kirk:
I agree they "cherry pick," but it seems the majority of the press they translate seems to be fairly mainstream, and often, state run. I wish I could compare MEMRI's translations to others but there is no ther translation site I know of. Perhaps someone can start a blog showcasing the inaccuracies of MEMRI and the moderates within the Arab press.
I won't hold my breath.
can i frist my own post?
upyernoz | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:25 pm | #
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?
A person who has privileges to post articles does a lame ass thing like frist in the comments?
Atrios be baggin u when he gets home.
baffled | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:31 pm | #
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MEMRI are the band of goofs responsible for originating that erroneous "OBL threatens only states that vote for Der Chimperer" from the pre-election video. Big-time neocon tools, so "out there" that even fascist fronts like the Bradley Foundation gave up on funding them.
-
Fielding Mellish | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:35 pm | #
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Two other main points from Cole:
I will add another criticism of MEMRI, which is that it systematically violates the intellectual property of Arab writers by appropriating their content without paying for it and storing them on its servers, and then claiming copyright in their work as translated! This is a shameful way of proceeding. Where the source articles are published in a country that is signatory to the major international copyright agreements, it may be illegal. All sites dealing in other languages do quote or translate from time to time, which falls under fair use. But MEMRI has a much more systematic set of appropriations going.
MEMRI has begun taking out blog ads. Since it can hardly go about threatening bloggers with lawsuits without violating the essential spirit of open discourse on the Web, it has forfeited any claim on our eyeballs. I urge all bloggers to decline advertisements from MEMRI until such time as Colonel Carmon withdraws his outrageous threat.
dave | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:37 pm | #
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Intimidation borne of desperation.
You can smell the perspiration.
Central Scrutinizer | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:38 pm | #
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Upyernoz, good work, frist if you will: this ain't exactly the Olympic Games. Just have fun!
My letter of protest under my far more respectable professional header goes out tomorrow. MEMRI is being thuggish. Their threat to Professor Cole is outrageous.
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:41 pm | #
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Sir,
As a Jew and a supporter of the State of Israel, which stands for democracy, free speech and free academic inquiry, I find MEMRI's threat of a lawsuit against Prof. Cole and the University of Michigan shameful.
Attempting to silence one's critics with vague accusations of libel instead of engaging in debate is essentially anti-democratic.
S
can i frist my own post?
upyernoz | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:25 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
?
A person who has privileges to post articles does a lame ass thing like frist in the comments?
Atrios be baggin u when he gets home.
baffled | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:31 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
MEMRI are the band of goofs responsible for originating that erroneous "OBL threatens only states that vote for Der Chimperer" from the pre-election video. Big-time neocon tools, so "out there" that even fascist fronts like the Bradley Foundation gave up on funding them.
-
Fielding Mellish | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:35 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Two other main points from Cole:
I will add another criticism of MEMRI, which is that it systematically violates the intellectual property of Arab writers by appropriating their content without paying for it and storing them on its servers, and then claiming copyright in their work as translated! This is a shameful way of proceeding. Where the source articles are published in a country that is signatory to the major international copyright agreements, it may be illegal. All sites dealing in other languages do quote or translate from time to time, which falls under fair use. But MEMRI has a much more systematic set of appropriations going.
MEMRI has begun taking out blog ads. Since it can hardly go about threatening bloggers with lawsuits without violating the essential spirit of open discourse on the Web, it has forfeited any claim on our eyeballs. I urge all bloggers to decline advertisements from MEMRI until such time as Colonel Carmon withdraws his outrageous threat.
dave | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:37 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Intimidation borne of desperation.
You can smell the perspiration.
Central Scrutinizer | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:38 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Upyernoz, good work, frist if you will: this ain't exactly the Olympic Games. Just have fun!
My letter of protest under my far more respectable professional header goes out tomorrow. MEMRI is being thuggish. Their threat to Professor Cole is outrageous.
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 11.23.04 - 9:41 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Sir,
As a Jew and a supporter of the State of Israel, which stands for democracy, free speech and free academic inquiry, I find MEMRI's threat of a lawsuit against Prof. Cole and the University of Michigan shameful.
Attempting to silence one's critics with vague accusations of libel instead of engaging in debate is essentially anti-democratic.
S
Crap, I'm really sorry about that last post! I didn't mean to do that!
Crap, I'm really sorry about that last post! I didn't mean to do that!
What is this "all or nothing" mentality permeating this society? Just when did life become so black or white, purely right or purely wrong, my way or no way to such vast numbers of people? Every thought, feeling or statement is over analyzed or scrutinized to death. It seems once a society begins to close its mind, close its doors, close its communication and close itself off from those who offer differing or opposing feelings or viewpoints, euthanasia of that society ensues.
Destruction is the lazy way to exist in life with very little expended in our human existence to see it flourish. Construction takes blood, sweat and tears in great human quanties to witness even small or concrete results. If one really does not wish to live on this planet and truly be alive throughout its existence, the choice is an easy one.
I say, "To Life!" - which allows for us all to live with the good and the bad of others in our existence and with the results of our choices. Suppression is mostly championed by the ignorant and the cowardly while Expression is often championed by the wise and the brave. Quite often it seems that suppressionists seek to impose censureship in life while expressionists seek to repel censorship. A greater danger, however is in the silence - on either side - for words are life, whether written, spoken, brailled or signed. To stifle them is to stifle our very breath and thereby suffocate.
Let not our differences drive us to the vice-grip of the extremist.
What is this "all or nothing" mentality permeating this society? Just when did life become so black or white, purely right or purely wrong, my way or no way to such vast numbers of people? Every thought, feeling or statement is over analyzed or scrutinized to death. It seems once a society begins to close its mind, close its doors, close its communication and close itself off from those who offer differing or opposing feelings or viewpoints, euthanasia of that society ensues.
Destruction is the lazy way to exist in life with very little expended in our human existence to see it flourish. Construction takes blood, sweat and tears in great human quanties to witness even small or concrete results. If one really does not wish to live on this planet and truly be alive throughout its existence, the choice is an easy one.
I say, "To Life!" - which allows for us all to live with the good and the bad of others in our existence and with the results of our choices. Suppression is mostly championed by the ignorant and the cowardly while Expression is often championed by the wise and the brave. Quite often it seems that suppressionists seek to impose censureship in life while expressionists seek to repel censorship. A greater danger, however is in the silence - on either side - for words are life, whether written, spoken, brailled or signed. To stifle them is to stifle our very breath and thereby suffocate.
Let not our differences drive us to the vice-grip of the extremist.
Dave, MEMRI is not blogging a checkable media with a declared loyalty in observation of certain parties: they claim to be introducing non-Arabic speakers to what the Arabic mainstream really is about. When they purport to do that and return with Sharon's irrational camel salesmen who "will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hate us" and who cannot be relied upon or negotiated with, and Cole and other experts can point to other voices, that is cherry-picking. Has Atrios ever tried to sell you on the evil filthy Americans who can only orgasm when bombing children?
Perhaps if you could point to examples of MEMRI tarring all Arabs with the same brush, them actually using the words "who will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hate us," or something like that, I'd understand your point a little better. I've read a fair amount of their stuff and they do translate sentiments from a variety of viewpoints; they also don't *just* translate from Arab media, but also from other sources as well.
They don't purport to represent all Arab media equally, so accusing them of not doing so is disingenuous.
It's different when you are dealing with a site that is NOT a blog, but a non-profit org.
I don't see why.
that is apparently MIS-translating items from the Arabic press,
This is a different issue from that of cherry-picking, though I agree that based on the blog post linked to on Atrios' main page, there do seem to be some serious issues with that translation. (It's also worth noting that their error on that page was in mistranslating Osama bin Laden, not in mistranslating Arabic media...in that particular case, there were no shortage of people offering up translations and interpretations of what bin Laden had said.)
for non-Arabic speakers who have no other source for that information.
I see where you're coming from here, but criticizing MEMRI because there aren't enough other voices out there doing what they're doing (or something comparable) is silly. If there aren't enough competing voices out there, that's not MEMRI's problem.
Also, Atrios does not violate the fair use doctrine. That's another BIG difference.
Of course, but again, this is a separate issue from the accusation of "cherry-picking."
Dave, MEMRI is not blogging a checkable media with a declared loyalty in observation of certain parties: they claim to be introducing non-Arabic speakers to what the Arabic mainstream really is about. When they purport to do that and return with Sharon's irrational camel salesmen who "will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hate us" and who cannot be relied upon or negotiated with, and Cole and other experts can point to other voices, that is cherry-picking. Has Atrios ever tried to sell you on the evil filthy Americans who can only orgasm when bombing children?
Perhaps if you could point to examples of MEMRI tarring all Arabs with the same brush, them actually using the words "who will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hate us," or something like that, I'd understand your point a little better. I've read a fair amount of their stuff and they do translate sentiments from a variety of viewpoints; they also don't *just* translate from Arab media, but also from other sources as well.
They don't purport to represent all Arab media equally, so accusing them of not doing so is disingenuous.
It's different when you are dealing with a site that is NOT a blog, but a non-profit org.
I don't see why.
that is apparently MIS-translating items from the Arabic press,
This is a different issue from that of cherry-picking, though I agree that based on the blog post linked to on Atrios' main page, there do seem to be some serious issues with that translation. (It's also worth noting that their error on that page was in mistranslating Osama bin Laden, not in mistranslating Arabic media...in that particular case, there were no shortage of people offering up translations and interpretations of what bin Laden had said.)
for non-Arabic speakers who have no other source for that information.
I see where you're coming from here, but criticizing MEMRI because there aren't enough other voices out there doing what they're doing (or something comparable) is silly. If there aren't enough competing voices out there, that's not MEMRI's problem.
Also, Atrios does not violate the fair use doctrine. That's another BIG difference.
Of course, but again, this is a separate issue from the accusation of "cherry-picking."
Perhaps someone can start a blog showcasing the inaccuracies of MEMRI and the moderates within the Arab press.
Perhaps someone can start translating the freepers and Little Green Raelians in to arabic as well. And call it representative of the pro-Bush media in the US.
Perhaps someone can start a blog showcasing the inaccuracies of MEMRI and the moderates within the Arab press.
Perhaps someone can start translating the freepers and Little Green Raelians in to arabic as well. And call it representative of the pro-Bush media in the US.
A people-less land for a landless people.
A people-less land for a landless people.
If I address Yigal Carmon in my letter as 'Mr.' instead of 'Colonel' (because he may have a military rank in some other country, but in the US he's just another schlemiel)would that be too impolite?
If I address Yigal Carmon in my letter as 'Mr.' instead of 'Colonel' (because he may have a military rank in some other country, but in the US he's just another schlemiel)would that be too impolite?
My mother's law firm specializes in defeating SLAPP suits. And oh yeah, she's Arab American. I just alerted her to this and they're on the case. MEMRI's gonna be in trouble....
My mother's law firm specializes in defeating SLAPP suits. And oh yeah, she's Arab American. I just alerted her to this and they're on the case. MEMRI's gonna be in trouble....
Actually, as Professor Cole implies in his response, the problem MEMRI has is proving damages.
Nothing cited in the letter on his post qualifies as slander or libel per se, at least not in the common law sense of the terms. Without that, MEMRI has to prove it was damaged by Professor Cole's statements. And if misstatements of fact, either intentionally or negligently, or even innocently, are grounds for recovery on a libel action, FoxNews and Rush Limbaugh will be shut down by Monday morning.
Seriously.
This is intimidation, or the attempt at it, pure and simple. Clearly, it won't work.
Actually, as Professor Cole implies in his response, the problem MEMRI has is proving damages.
Nothing cited in the letter on his post qualifies as slander or libel per se, at least not in the common law sense of the terms. Without that, MEMRI has to prove it was damaged by Professor Cole's statements. And if misstatements of fact, either intentionally or negligently, or even innocently, are grounds for recovery on a libel action, FoxNews and Rush Limbaugh will be shut down by Monday morning.
Seriously.
This is intimidation, or the attempt at it, pure and simple. Clearly, it won't work.
Perhaps someone can start translating the freepers and Little Green Raelians in to arabic as well. And call it representative of the pro-Bush media in the US.
Ouch.
Perhaps someone can start translating the freepers and Little Green Raelians in to arabic as well. And call it representative of the pro-Bush media in the US.
Ouch.
SWR:
I'm not responsible for Bush's policies or our reliance on Saudi oil. Clearly Bush is not responsible for our civilization's reliance on oil for survival?
What is your plan for immediate relief from our Saudi oil itch and how would you enact it in the next 4 years.
The simple fact is we are oil dependent until we find another way.
Blaming/hating Bush hardy helps solve this very real problem.
I disagree with him on a lot.
Borders, Amnesty, Deficits, Abortion, Gay Marriage.
The need for someone/something to hate and spew at is what's driving people away from your party.
No more ideas, just criticism.
SWR:
I'm not responsible for Bush's policies or our reliance on Saudi oil. Clearly Bush is not responsible for our civilization's reliance on oil for survival?
What is your plan for immediate relief from our Saudi oil itch and how would you enact it in the next 4 years.
The simple fact is we are oil dependent until we find another way.
Blaming/hating Bush hardy helps solve this very real problem.
I disagree with him on a lot.
Borders, Amnesty, Deficits, Abortion, Gay Marriage.
The need for someone/something to hate and spew at is what's driving people away from your party.
No more ideas, just criticism.
The need for someone/something to hate and spew at is what's driving people away from your party.
Well, apparently, providing someone to "hate and spew" at is working really well for the Republican party, ain't it?
Modern American politics: "Vote for me cause the other guy's a scumbag and only scumbags support him."
The need for someone/something to hate and spew at is what's driving people away from your party.
Well, apparently, providing someone to "hate and spew" at is working really well for the Republican party, ain't it?
Modern American politics: "Vote for me cause the other guy's a scumbag and only scumbags support him."
Free advice to MEMRI, your group's name sucks big time. It reminds me too much of the memrihole if you get my drift. Being wingnuts, they probably don't get it.
Free advice to MEMRI, your group's name sucks big time. It reminds me too much of the memrihole if you get my drift. Being wingnuts, they probably don't get it.
Let not our differences drive us to the vice-grip of the extremist.
Shut up.
"The true thing is generally the extreme thing."
--Emma Goldman
.
Let not our differences drive us to the vice-grip of the extremist.
Shut up.
"The true thing is generally the extreme thing."
--Emma Goldman
.
Perhaps someone can start a blog showcasing the inaccuracies of MEMRI and the moderates within the Arab press.
ether -
While it'd be nice to have such a counter-site, it'd be even better to use some common sense. MEMRI does translate a good deal of its pieces from both small and large papers - but on a given day in al-Hayat, for example, you could see 7-10 pieces. If MEMRI's bringing you a few op-eds a week, shouldn't that raise your eyebrows a bit?
For a very rough starting poing, try ajeeb.com , which allows you to translate babelfish style. It's far from perfect, but a fun toy to throw around...
Perhaps someone can start a blog showcasing the inaccuracies of MEMRI and the moderates within the Arab press.
ether -
While it'd be nice to have such a counter-site, it'd be even better to use some common sense. MEMRI does translate a good deal of its pieces from both small and large papers - but on a given day in al-Hayat, for example, you could see 7-10 pieces. If MEMRI's bringing you a few op-eds a week, shouldn't that raise your eyebrows a bit?
For a very rough starting poing, try ajeeb.com , which allows you to translate babelfish style. It's far from perfect, but a fun toy to throw around...
Crank that megaphone up to 11 man! MEMRI is apparently nutty and is notorious for mistranslations which play to ideologues.
Crank that megaphone up to 11 man! MEMRI is apparently nutty and is notorious for mistranslations which play to ideologues.
Ether, I admire the cogency and incisiveness with which you went right to the heart of the Juan Cole/Memri SLAPP letter discussion
Ether, I admire the cogency and incisiveness with which you went right to the heart of the Juan Cole/Memri SLAPP letter discussion
Thanks for the link Kirk, but the draw of MEMRI is in not having to semi-translate Arabic text.
While I will have a greater degree of skepticism when viewing their material, based on the alleged misinterpretation of the Osama tape, I won't completely disregard every translation they provide.
Thanks for the link Kirk, but the draw of MEMRI is in not having to semi-translate Arabic text.
While I will have a greater degree of skepticism when viewing their material, based on the alleged misinterpretation of the Osama tape, I won't completely disregard every translation they provide.
The need for someone/something to hate and spew at is what's driving people away from your party.
Considering that your "side" has just been busted foisting a spurious lawsuit meant to chill academic speech, that's a bit fucking rich, asshole.
The need for someone/something to hate and spew at is what's driving people away from your party.
Considering that your "side" has just been busted foisting a spurious lawsuit meant to chill academic speech, that's a bit fucking rich, asshole.
I dont know about ajeeb, but here's a handy guide to Cole-speak:
"all Israelis not in favor of disbanding the state of Israel" = "Likud Operatives"
"Israelis who translate nasty Arabic articles about Jews drinking blood in state-run media" = "Likud Operatives"
"Israelis operating on five figure budgets" = "AIPAC funded $60 million dollar behemoths"
I dont know about ajeeb, but here's a handy guide to Cole-speak:
"all Israelis not in favor of disbanding the state of Israel" = "Likud Operatives"
"Israelis who translate nasty Arabic articles about Jews drinking blood in state-run media" = "Likud Operatives"
"Israelis operating on five figure budgets" = "AIPAC funded $60 million dollar behemoths"
The need for someone/something to hate and spew at is what's driving people away from your party.
Good grief.
The need for someone/something to hate and spew at is what's driving people away from your party.
Good grief.
Goddamn, MesaMan, that was fucking pathetic.
Goddamn, MesaMan, that was fucking pathetic.
MEMRI's job is to muddy the waters...
MEMRI's job is to muddy the waters...
Agreed, RMJ, there are no damages, and it's pure intimidation, of the Daniel Pipes variety.
And as Juan Cole said, they are a non-profit and therefore not allowed to engage in direct political activity. But a lot of right wing political groups and individuals can make use of these selective translations as grist for their mill.
Agreed, RMJ, there are no damages, and it's pure intimidation, of the Daniel Pipes variety.
And as Juan Cole said, they are a non-profit and therefore not allowed to engage in direct political activity. But a lot of right wing political groups and individuals can make use of these selective translations as grist for their mill.
Shut up.
"The true thing is generally the extreme thing."
--Emma Goldman
So, A. Nony, Shut Up is the best suppressionist response you can muster? Thank you for proving my point and thanks for not following your advice to me. 
Shut up.
"The true thing is generally the extreme thing."
--Emma Goldman
So, A. Nony, Shut Up is the best suppressionist response you can muster? Thank you for proving my point and thanks for not following your advice to me.
I understand the emotional draw to arguing with "trolls," but you read that last comment by MesaMan, and if you can come to it "out of context," as I just did, you have to wonder:
why bother?
Heard an interesting analysis by a psychiatrist on NPR tonight. Rather commonplace, I thought, but clear enough. Seems they tested groups with a hypothetical Abu Ghraib question, about a soldier who thought the Geneva Convention was suspended, so he was free to torture prisoners. Gave the respondents varying degrees of evidence, from little support, to overwhelming support.
Turned out evidence didn't matter. 85% of the time, they could predict the response to the question: "Was this okay?" by first determing: do you favor Democrats, or the GOP? At least, that's how I remember it.
We don't think, IOW. We don't consider evidence. We respond from our chosen preference. All data fits what we want it to fit, whether it does or not. As Paul Simon said: "A man hears what he wants to hear, and disgregards the rest."
So, why do we argue with "trolls"? (I, the worst of the offenders, have escaped alive to ask thee.)
I understand the emotional draw to arguing with "trolls," but you read that last comment by MesaMan, and if you can come to it "out of context," as I just did, you have to wonder:
why bother?
Heard an interesting analysis by a psychiatrist on NPR tonight. Rather commonplace, I thought, but clear enough. Seems they tested groups with a hypothetical Abu Ghraib question, about a soldier who thought the Geneva Convention was suspended, so he was free to torture prisoners. Gave the respondents varying degrees of evidence, from little support, to overwhelming support.
Turned out evidence didn't matter. 85% of the time, they could predict the response to the question: "Was this okay?" by first determing: do you favor Democrats, or the GOP? At least, that's how I remember it.
We don't think, IOW. We don't consider evidence. We respond from our chosen preference. All data fits what we want it to fit, whether it does or not. As Paul Simon said: "A man hears what he wants to hear, and disgregards the rest."
So, why do we argue with "trolls"? (I, the worst of the offenders, have escaped alive to ask thee.)
From Previously linked profile of MEMRI co-founder
"In 1996 she helped write a report for Israel's Likud party that urged Israel to break off then-ongoing peace initiatives."
Writing reports for Likud sounds like a Likudnik. And by the way "Coauthors of the report included Richard Perle, David Wurmser, and Douglas Feith. "
Also "Meyrav Wurmser, an opponent of the Oslo peace accords and a central neoconservative figure, is a senior fellow at the right-wing Hudson Institute and a columnist for the Conrad Black-owned Jerusalem Post."
A Conrad Black shill taken seriously? That's scary.
From Previously linked profile of MEMRI co-founder
"In 1996 she helped write a report for Israel's Likud party that urged Israel to break off then-ongoing peace initiatives."
Writing reports for Likud sounds like a Likudnik. And by the way "Coauthors of the report included Richard Perle, David Wurmser, and Douglas Feith. "
Also "Meyrav Wurmser, an opponent of the Oslo peace accords and a central neoconservative figure, is a senior fellow at the right-wing Hudson Institute and a columnist for the Conrad Black-owned Jerusalem Post."
A Conrad Black shill taken seriously? That's scary.
http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?art...?
articleid=3467
paranoia or responsible journalism?
http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?art...?
articleid=3467
paranoia or responsible journalism?
Inaccurate?
You're more of an idiot than anyone else that has posting here.
What threats, dumbass. A SLAPP suit IS a lawsuit. WHERE is the fucking threat?!
Inaccurate?
You're more of an idiot than anyone else that has posting here.
What threats, dumbass. A SLAPP suit IS a lawsuit. WHERE is the fucking threat?!
MEMRI's job is to muddy the waters...
I think we're already in the Big Muddy up to our hips.
MEMRI's job is to muddy the waters...
I think we're already in the Big Muddy up to our hips.
As Paul Simon said: "A man hears what he wants to hear, and disgregards the rest."
My favorite Paul Simon song. Waylon Jennings did an awesome cover of it on one of the last albums he released before he died. I'm blanking out on the title at the moment, but the record's worth picking up.
As for your question, I find there's a multitude of reasons why I occasionaly respond to trolls. Sometimes, it's merely the thrill of mental excercise with the rare troll that, at least, can keep up sophistically. In other words, s/he may not feverently believe what s/he says, but s/he can at least put forth a good argument. And some, well...some make statements just so flat out dumb you can't help but respond. You gay-bashers, racists, facist fundies and other assorted knotheads.
And I've found that engaging such dingleberries online keeps me out of shouting matches when I hear the balderdash repeated by dipsticks in the "real world". And if nothing else about my personality has come through, I'd like to think y'all recognize that I'm a cat that enjoys life and would rather not waste time with doofuses. Online, at the very least, it's a temporary thing.
And, hell...from a Socratic point of view, it's a marvelous insight into how "the other side" thinks. Or doesn't think, as the case all too often seems to be. Personally, I don't care for tossing insults; snide comments, yes, but that's different. Ya don't learn anything when you're rejoinder is little more than "fuck you". But, as with many other things, that's just me.
As Paul Simon said: "A man hears what he wants to hear, and disgregards the rest."
My favorite Paul Simon song. Waylon Jennings did an awesome cover of it on one of the last albums he released before he died. I'm blanking out on the title at the moment, but the record's worth picking up.
As for your question, I find there's a multitude of reasons why I occasionaly respond to trolls. Sometimes, it's merely the thrill of mental excercise with the rare troll that, at least, can keep up sophistically. In other words, s/he may not feverently believe what s/he says, but s/he can at least put forth a good argument. And some, well...some make statements just so flat out dumb you can't help but respond. You gay-bashers, racists, facist fundies and other assorted knotheads.
And I've found that engaging such dingleberries online keeps me out of shouting matches when I hear the balderdash repeated by dipsticks in the "real world". And if nothing else about my personality has come through, I'd like to think y'all recognize that I'm a cat that enjoys life and would rather not waste time with doofuses. Online, at the very least, it's a temporary thing.
And, hell...from a Socratic point of view, it's a marvelous insight into how "the other side" thinks. Or doesn't think, as the case all too often seems to be. Personally, I don't care for tossing insults; snide comments, yes, but that's different. Ya don't learn anything when you're rejoinder is little more than "fuck you". But, as with many other things, that's just me.
And these fucking morons put faith in what Juan Cole says...
Answer the question, upyernoz;
WHERE is the THREAT?!
And these fucking morons put faith in what Juan Cole says...
Answer the question, upyernoz;
WHERE is the THREAT?!
Thersites - Not to mention that they are the party that has perfected the veteran smearjob. It's become an artform with them.
Hate. yeah. Rush Limbaugh has been broadcasting for over 20 years and it has been over 20 years of hate. Your side has expressed the intention of eradicating us.
Do not project that onto me, you son of a bitch. We are not hateful, we are defending ourselves. Eat shit and die.
Thersites - Not to mention that they are the party that has perfected the veteran smearjob. It's become an artform with them.
Hate. yeah. Rush Limbaugh has been broadcasting for over 20 years and it has been over 20 years of hate. Your side has expressed the intention of eradicating us.
Do not project that onto me, you son of a bitch. We are not hateful, we are defending ourselves. Eat shit and die.
good piece on cole/ MESA
What threats, dumbass. A SLAPP suit IS a lawsuit. WHERE is the fucking threat?!
paranoia or responsible journalism?
All way off-topic. Sad.
good piece on cole/ MESA
What threats, dumbass. A SLAPP suit IS a lawsuit. WHERE is the fucking threat?!
paranoia or responsible journalism?
All way off-topic. Sad.
Shit - that 2d part of my comment was not to you Thersites. I do that and I have confused people doing it - sorry.
Shit - that 2d part of my comment was not to you Thersites. I do that and I have confused people doing it - sorry.
What is offensive about this letter is that it is not only aimed at Cole himself but at his employer as well. This letter is alleging that they have been defamed/libeled somehow, yet they are unable to actually demonstrate how this damage was inflicted. Their complaint is vague, it also misinterprets what Cole was saying to boot. That is dishonest, and I must say if they are willing to be that openly dishonest in English with English speakers/readers, I must say it leaves me wondering exactly how honest they are in their translations from Arabic to English.
Worse, it looks like a naked attempt to silence someone that espouses a POV regarding the Arab/Israeli conflict that does not appear to match the POV of MEMRI regarding the nature of the threat and of the culture of opinion in the Arab media/press/culture. This is doubly offensive, in that first it attacks the freedom of diversity of opinion/perspective in the academic world, and it also attacks the open nature of the internet for freely disseminating information while at the same time using the exact same internet to disseminate it's own (MEMRI) message.
This attempt to silence Cole in this manner is indefensible to any honest believer in freedom of speech/thought as well as those that believe in critical thought and reasoning. It also unfortunately smacks of a tendency that has become increasingly obvious over the past several years...namely that to criticize current Israeli policy is somehow anti-Semitic, that to have any sympathy for the Arab world/society is also somehow anti-American.
This is the sort of behaviour one sees in a culture that is closed, not open, as America and Israel are supposed to be. It is also the path towards censorship/restriction of speech/thought along the lines that was present in the former USSR. This is *NOT* something I would think is something that would be welcome in a free society to those that actually believe in the importance of free speech, even speech that disagrees strongly with your own views.
In any event, this is obviously an attempt to silence a critic without any actual cause other than not liking what they are saying. Cole has not defamed or libeled MEMRI from anything that can be seen in their letter of complaint nor that of Cole's writings. I always thought the 1st Amendment was the one above all others that was seen to be the cornerstone of American society. As of the past few years I have come to question whether that is actually believed anymore by a sizable percentage of Americans. That is not something I find reassuring.
What is offensive about this letter is that it is not only aimed at Cole himself but at his employer as well. This letter is alleging that they have been defamed/libeled somehow, yet they are unable to actually demonstrate how this damage was inflicted. Their complaint is vague, it also misinterprets what Cole was saying to boot. That is dishonest, and I must say if they are willing to be that openly dishonest in English with English speakers/readers, I must say it leaves me wondering exactly how honest they are in their translations from Arabic to English.
Worse, it looks like a naked attempt to silence someone that espouses a POV regarding the Arab/Israeli conflict that does not appear to match the POV of MEMRI regarding the nature of the threat and of the culture of opinion in the Arab media/press/culture. This is doubly offensive, in that first it attacks the freedom of diversity of opinion/perspective in the academic world, and it also attacks the open nature of the internet for freely disseminating information while at the same time using the exact same internet to disseminate it's own (MEMRI) message.
This attempt to silence Cole in this manner is indefensible to any honest believer in freedom of speech/thought as well as those that believe in critical thought and reasoning. It also unfortunately smacks of a tendency that has become increasingly obvious over the past several years...namely that to criticize current Israeli policy is somehow anti-Semitic, that to have any sympathy for the Arab world/society is also somehow anti-American.
This is the sort of behaviour one sees in a culture that is closed, not open, as America and Israel are supposed to be. It is also the path towards censorship/restriction of speech/thought along the lines that was present in the former USSR. This is *NOT* something I would think is something that would be welcome in a free society to those that actually believe in the importance of free speech, even speech that disagrees strongly with your own views.
In any event, this is obviously an attempt to silence a critic without any actual cause other than not liking what they are saying. Cole has not defamed or libeled MEMRI from anything that can be seen in their letter of complaint nor that of Cole's writings. I always thought the 1st Amendment was the one above all others that was seen to be the cornerstone of American society. As of the past few years I have come to question whether that is actually believed anymore by a sizable percentage of Americans. That is not something I find reassuring.
good piece on cole/ MESA
What threats, dumbass. A SLAPP suit IS a lawsuit. WHERE is the fucking threat?!
paranoia or responsible journalism?
All way off-topic. Sad.
Thersites
(The above is a great example of someone who has no fucking clue.)
good piece on cole/ MESA
What threats, dumbass. A SLAPP suit IS a lawsuit. WHERE is the fucking threat?!
paranoia or responsible journalism?
All way off-topic. Sad.
Thersites
(The above is a great example of someone who has no fucking clue.)
When you can't improve on it, you gotta say it short and simple:
What Backslider said.
When you can't improve on it, you gotta say it short and simple:
What Backslider said.
Answer the question, upyernoz;
WHERE is the THREAT?!
If you will not do so, we will be forced to pursue legal action against you personally and against the University of Michigan, which the article identifies you as an employee of.
Boy, that was difficult.
Answer the question, upyernoz;
WHERE is the THREAT?!
If you will not do so, we will be forced to pursue legal action against you personally and against the University of Michigan, which the article identifies you as an employee of.
Boy, that was difficult.
So, A. Nony, Shut Up is the best suppressionist response you can muster? Thank you for proving my point and thanks for not following your advice to me
Shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up.
You shut up.
So, A. Nony, Shut Up is the best suppressionist response you can muster? Thank you for proving my point and thanks for not following your advice to me
Shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up.
You shut up.
Thersites
(The above is a great example of someone who has no fucking clue.)
A perfect example of what I was saying a moment ago, and of the Gospel admonition to remove the beam from you own eye, before removing the splinter from your brother's eye.
Don't you agree?
Thersites
(The above is a great example of someone who has no fucking clue.)
A perfect example of what I was saying a moment ago, and of the Gospel admonition to remove the beam from you own eye, before removing the splinter from your brother's eye.
Don't you agree?
Answer the question, upyernoz;
WHERE is the THREAT?!
If you will not do so, we will be forced to pursue legal action against you personally and against the University of Michigan, which the article identifies you as an employee of.
Boy, that was difficult.
The Kenosha Kid
Kenosha Kidmind, read what a fucking SLAPP letter is, it IS a FUCKING LAWSUIT.
WHERE is the THREAT?
ACTION WAS TAKEN!
There is NO threat, MORON!
Answer the question, upyernoz;
WHERE is the THREAT?!
If you will not do so, we will be forced to pursue legal action against you personally and against the University of Michigan, which the article identifies you as an employee of.
Boy, that was difficult.
The Kenosha Kid
Kenosha Kidmind, read what a fucking SLAPP letter is, it IS a FUCKING LAWSUIT.
WHERE is the THREAT?
ACTION WAS TAKEN!
There is NO threat, MORON!
the Gospel admonition to remove the beam from you own eye, before removing the splinter from your brother's eye.
Why don't you remove the jizz from your eye.
Har har har har har har har har
.
the Gospel admonition to remove the beam from you own eye, before removing the splinter from your brother's eye.
Why don't you remove the jizz from your eye.
Har har har har har har har har
.
Mr. Jeffers,
You are too kind, sir.
And, from what I understand - and believe you me, I have no dog whatsoever in this particular fight - MEMRI's SLAPP suit is on rather shaky ground, legally speaking. There's more folks floating around that are actual lawyer-type people who can and have explained it better. Frankly, what does MEMRI have to gain by suing Cole beyond maybe scaring anyone else who might think about criticizing 'em.
Mr. Jeffers,
You are too kind, sir.
And, from what I understand - and believe you me, I have no dog whatsoever in this particular fight - MEMRI's SLAPP suit is on rather shaky ground, legally speaking. There's more folks floating around that are actual lawyer-type people who can and have explained it better. Frankly, what does MEMRI have to gain by suing Cole beyond maybe scaring anyone else who might think about criticizing 'em.
Kenosha Kid--
"John F. Kerry" is determined to argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The distinction between "threat" and "lawsuit" is one of his/her/its own invention, which he/she/it insists is more valid and crucial than any other consideration.
Why, is the compeling question? It is truly a distinction without a difference, an insistence on technicality that doesn't exist anywhere except within the argument being advanced, which means "JFK" is, essentially, begging the question and trying to create a tautology which makes the argument impregnable, although all it is based on is: "Because I said so!"
Weird, really.
Kenosha Kid--
"John F. Kerry" is determined to argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The distinction between "threat" and "lawsuit" is one of his/her/its own invention, which he/she/it insists is more valid and crucial than any other consideration.
Why, is the compeling question? It is truly a distinction without a difference, an insistence on technicality that doesn't exist anywhere except within the argument being advanced, which means "JFK" is, essentially, begging the question and trying to create a tautology which makes the argument impregnable, although all it is based on is: "Because I said so!"
Weird, really.
Fucking, DUmb-asses....
Read the FUCKING LINKS PROVIDED, MORONS!
upyernoz, had too fucking much up his noz and wherever else...
Piss fucking poor post.
Duncan, I'm not impressed by this clown.
Fucking, DUmb-asses....
Read the FUCKING LINKS PROVIDED, MORONS!
upyernoz, had too fucking much up his noz and wherever else...
Piss fucking poor post.
Duncan, I'm not impressed by this clown.
Kenosha Kidmind, read what a fucking SLAPP letter is, it IS a FUCKING LAWSUIT.
WHERE is the THREAT?
ACTION WAS TAKEN!
There is NO threat, MORON!
Try reading it over from the beginning. Sounding out the big words might help.
Kenosha Kidmind, read what a fucking SLAPP letter is, it IS a FUCKING LAWSUIT.
WHERE is the THREAT?
ACTION WAS TAKEN!
There is NO threat, MORON!
Try reading it over from the beginning. Sounding out the big words might help.
The Boxer-the album is "Right for the Time"
The Boxer-the album is "Right for the Time"
Duncan, believe me.
upyernoz provided his own rope at his hanging!
Follow the links.
Duncan, believe me.
upyernoz provided his own rope at his hanging!
Follow the links.
Ah. The threat of a lawsuit is not the threat of a lawsuit.
Does our troll realize that he has just suborned himself?
No.
He is stupid. Thanks, though!
We'll be in touch.
Ah. The threat of a lawsuit is not the threat of a lawsuit.
Does our troll realize that he has just suborned himself?
No.
He is stupid. Thanks, though!
We'll be in touch.
Backslider--
Picking up on "JFK's" point, I'm not sure this is a suit, yet. Common practice is for a lawyer (never the client) to issue a letter before a suit is filed. In fact, you usually have to prove steps were taken to resolve the situation before a suit is filed.
This letter seems to constitute the barest beginning of that process, and clearly, its purpose is to freeze Professor Cole's blog postings with regards to MEMRI. Grounds, I think, from my memory of torts class (never handled a libel suit when I was practicing) have they none, largely because they'd never be able to prove damages (the hardest part of a libel or slander action).
Backslider--
Picking up on "JFK's" point, I'm not sure this is a suit, yet. Common practice is for a lawyer (never the client) to issue a letter before a suit is filed. In fact, you usually have to prove steps were taken to resolve the situation before a suit is filed.
This letter seems to constitute the barest beginning of that process, and clearly, its purpose is to freeze Professor Cole's blog postings with regards to MEMRI. Grounds, I think, from my memory of torts class (never handled a libel suit when I was practicing) have they none, largely because they'd never be able to prove damages (the hardest part of a libel or slander action).
All negros are lazy.
All negros are lazy.
hey JFK, maybe you should read more carefully. i never said MEMRI SLAPPed cole, i said they sent him a "SLAPP letter." a "SLAPP" is a lawsuit. a "SLAPP letter" is a letter threatening a SLAPP suit.
as kenosha kid pointed out, the letter threatened to take legal action. thus MEMRI threatened cole and the U of M with a SLAPP. therefore, the letter they sent was a SLAPP letter.
get it?
and there's no need to be insulting in your comments. ask a question if you want, but don't be an asshole
hey JFK, maybe you should read more carefully. i never said MEMRI SLAPPed cole, i said they sent him a "SLAPP letter." a "SLAPP" is a lawsuit. a "SLAPP letter" is a letter threatening a SLAPP suit.
as kenosha kid pointed out, the letter threatened to take legal action. thus MEMRI threatened cole and the U of M with a SLAPP. therefore, the letter they sent was a SLAPP letter.
get it?
and there's no need to be insulting in your comments. ask a question if you want, but don't be an asshole
upyernoz, I'll bet you are a negro.
upyernoz, I'll bet you are a negro.
Try reading it over from the beginning. Sounding out the big words might help.
The Kenosha Kid
DUmb-ass, I reread it adn reread all of the links, did you?!
A SLAPP letter is a lawsuit.
WHAT FUCKING THREAT?!
SLAPP letter link; http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
"What that means in a nutshell is: A lawsuit is brought against an individual..."
WHERE IS THE FUCKING THREAT?
Action was taken, NO THREATS AT ALL!
Fucking, Dumb-ass!
It's in the courts, where is the threat?
Try reading it over from the beginning. Sounding out the big words might help.
The Kenosha Kid
DUmb-ass, I reread it adn reread all of the links, did you?!
A SLAPP letter is a lawsuit.
WHAT FUCKING THREAT?!
SLAPP letter link; http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
"What that means in a nutshell is: A lawsuit is brought against an individual..."
WHERE IS THE FUCKING THREAT?
Action was taken, NO THREATS AT ALL!
Fucking, Dumb-ass!
It's in the courts, where is the threat?
I do like that R. Kelly, though.
I do like that R. Kelly, though.
Karin,
That's it, thanks. Good record, and Waymore's last good one. The follow-up had one too many "guest stars" and the live album he released right before he died sounded, well...like it was done by a very tired man. Which is what Waylon was around that time, bless his old heart.
Mr. Jeffers,
That's pretty much what I thought, though the extent of my legal knowledge comes from music industry law and old "Perry Mason" episodes. Seems to me if MEMRI really felt they had a case for slander/libel, we'd be seeing much more lawyer activity (and less posting about the subject from Cole). Is it just me, or does this sound very familiar to when that fruitcake Luskin threatened to sue the A-man over comments made in the comments section?
Darn those lawsuit-happy conservatives.
Ah. The threat of a lawsuit is not the threat of a lawsuit.
Does our troll realize that he has just suborned himself?
No.
He is stupid. Thanks, though!
We'll be in touch.
Thersites
DUMB-ASS READ THE FUCKING LINKS PROVIDED BY upyernoz!
Karin,
That's it, thanks. Good record, and Waymore's last good one. The follow-up had one too many "guest stars" and the live album he released right before he died sounded, well...like it was done by a very tired man. Which is what Waylon was around that time, bless his old heart.
Mr. Jeffers,
That's pretty much what I thought, though the extent of my legal knowledge comes from music industry law and old "Perry Mason" episodes. Seems to me if MEMRI really felt they had a case for slander/libel, we'd be seeing much more lawyer activity (and less posting about the subject from Cole). Is it just me, or does this sound very familiar to when that fruitcake Luskin threatened to sue the A-man over comments made in the comments section?
Darn those lawsuit-happy conservatives.
Ah. The threat of a lawsuit is not the threat of a lawsuit.
Does our troll realize that he has just suborned himself?
No.
He is stupid. Thanks, though!
We'll be in touch.
Thersites
DUMB-ASS READ THE FUCKING LINKS PROVIDED BY upyernoz!
Every once in a while a negro does something worthwhile.
Every once in a while a negro does something worthwhile.
Oh... mesaman sends us to a blog post chatting up Campus Watch, an organisation headed by Daniel Pipes, son of Richard Pipes.
*geesh* What were you guys saying about this being a family affair?
By the way Daniel Pipes is a signatory of PNAC, which tells ya how trustworthy he is.
Oh... mesaman sends us to a blog post chatting up Campus Watch, an organisation headed by Daniel Pipes, son of Richard Pipes.
*geesh* What were you guys saying about this being a family affair?
By the way Daniel Pipes is a signatory of PNAC, which tells ya how trustworthy he is.
It's in the courts,
Is it? Per Professor Cole's site, only a letter has been sent. No lawsuit has been filed, so far as can be determined at this point.
where is the threat?
In the letter, posted on Professor Cole's website.
Why is this even an issue?
It's in the courts,
Is it? Per Professor Cole's site, only a letter has been sent. No lawsuit has been filed, so far as can be determined at this point.
where is the threat?
In the letter, posted on Professor Cole's website.
Why is this even an issue?
Every once in a while a negro does something worthwhile.
John F. Kerry
Typical for a liberal....
Sly, is that you?
Every once in a while a negro does something worthwhile.
John F. Kerry
Typical for a liberal....
Sly, is that you?
Eddie Murphy is pretty funny, too.
Eddie Murphy is pretty funny, too.
Mr. Jeffers,
Recall, if you will, our discussion on trolls and responding to them. Witness above, a primo example of a troll that just isn't worth the bother.
Mr. Jeffers,
Recall, if you will, our discussion on trolls and responding to them. Witness above, a primo example of a troll that just isn't worth the bother.
It's in the courts,
Is it? Per Professor Cole's site, only a letter has been sent. No lawsuit has been filed, so far as can be determined at this point.
where is the threat?
In the letter, posted on Professor Cole's website.
Why is this even an issue?
Robert M. Jeffers
Robert, for once, pull your fucking head out of your ass and read the SLAPP letter link.
Get back to me after that.
It's in the courts,
Is it? Per Professor Cole's site, only a letter has been sent. No lawsuit has been filed, so far as can be determined at this point.
where is the threat?
In the letter, posted on Professor Cole's website.
Why is this even an issue?
Robert M. Jeffers
Robert, for once, pull your fucking head out of your ass and read the SLAPP letter link.
Get back to me after that.
It's not a lawsuit. If it was, Juan Cole would be saying "I got served with a complaint" rather than "I got a letter in my mail box" (a couple of weeks old BTW. Either he doesn't check his cubbyhole much, or the mail delivery is terrible, or Col. Carmon had trouble finding a stamp).
It's not a lawsuit. If it was, Juan Cole would be saying "I got served with a complaint" rather than "I got a letter in my mail box" (a couple of weeks old BTW. Either he doesn't check his cubbyhole much, or the mail delivery is terrible, or Col. Carmon had trouble finding a stamp).
Dr. Doolittle was hee-larious.
Dr. Doolittle 2 was pretty good, but not as good as the original.
Dr. Doolittle was hee-larious.
Dr. Doolittle 2 was pretty good, but not as good as the original.
I gotsta admit, I'm a sucker for talking animals.
I gotsta admit, I'm a sucker for talking animals.
Talking mammals, at least.
Talking bugs from Naked Lunch fuh-reaked my shit out.
Backslider--
Yup. As I said, I, the worst of offenders....
...plus, I plead extenuating circumstances, your Honor. It's late, and I'm prone to didacticism.
I throw myself on the mercy of the court!
(That is, unless this is just a threat, and we aren't in court yet. If the latter, then I say: Yar boo sucks!)
Talking mammals, at least.
Talking bugs from Naked Lunch fuh-reaked my shit out.
Backslider--
Yup. As I said, I, the worst of offenders....
...plus, I plead extenuating circumstances, your Honor. It's late, and I'm prone to didacticism.
I throw myself on the mercy of the court!
(That is, unless this is just a threat, and we aren't in court yet. If the latter, then I say: Yar boo sucks!)
I am fucking sucker for rich women!
I am fucking sucker for rich women!
hey JFK, it's interesting that you demanding i answer your question and then when i did, you ignore what i wrote.
and i suggest you read the "SLAPP letter link", maybe then you will realize the link defines the word "SLAPP" not "SLAPP letter."
hey JFK, it's interesting that you demanding i answer your question and then when i did, you ignore what i wrote.
and i suggest you read the "SLAPP letter link", maybe then you will realize the link defines the word "SLAPP" not "SLAPP letter."
It was weird how, in Naked Lunch, they, like, put a bunch of stuff in there from a bunch of different William S. Burroughs novels, not just Naked Lunch.
Speaking of William S. Burroughs, has anybody heard the "colaboration" between him and Kurt Cobain? Heard to find, but it's some wiggity-whacked out shit.
True dat.
It was weird how, in Naked Lunch, they, like, put a bunch of stuff in there from a bunch of different William S. Burroughs novels, not just Naked Lunch.
Speaking of William S. Burroughs, has anybody heard the "colaboration" between him and Kurt Cobain? Heard to find, but it's some wiggity-whacked out shit.
True dat.
Robert, for once, pull your fucking head out of your ass and read the SLAPP letter link.
As I said (but you ignored), this distinction you have created has no existence in reality. A "SLAPP suit" necessarily and logically excludes a "SLAPP threat"?
SLAPP is not even a technical or legal term. "Lawsuit" is a technical term. "Threat letter" is a technical term, or at least has a distinctive definition in law. "SLAPP" is merely a designation for a particular type of claim.
Now, if you have a link to Black's Law Dictionary or some other authority, maybe we can discuss this point. But just linking to any old website that purports to be the last word on what is nothing more than current usage, is, well, useless.
And if you can only respond with calumny and childish taunts, just quit responding, okay?
Robert, for once, pull your fucking head out of your ass and read the SLAPP letter link.
As I said (but you ignored), this distinction you have created has no existence in reality. A "SLAPP suit" necessarily and logically excludes a "SLAPP threat"?
SLAPP is not even a technical or legal term. "Lawsuit" is a technical term. "Threat letter" is a technical term, or at least has a distinctive definition in law. "SLAPP" is merely a designation for a particular type of claim.
Now, if you have a link to Black's Law Dictionary or some other authority, maybe we can discuss this point. But just linking to any old website that purports to be the last word on what is nothing more than current usage, is, well, useless.
And if you can only respond with calumny and childish taunts, just quit responding, okay?
Wow. I'm glad I could make it to the inaugural ball. I'll come back later with the ol' troll-shit boots on and hang out with the clean-up crew.
Goodl luck upyernosz!
Wow. I'm glad I could make it to the inaugural ball. I'll come back later with the ol' troll-shit boots on and hang out with the clean-up crew.
Goodl luck upyernosz!
and i suggest you read the "SLAPP letter link", maybe then you will realize the link defines the word "SLAPP" not "SLAPP letter."
upyernoz
I suggest you reread the fucking link and admit your fucking stupid by providing the rope for your own hanging.
What did I saw the first post? SLAPP suit! Game, set and fucking match, dipshit.
God damn, Duncan!
This idiot is too easy!
and i suggest you read the "SLAPP letter link", maybe then you will realize the link defines the word "SLAPP" not "SLAPP letter."
upyernoz
I suggest you reread the fucking link and admit your fucking stupid by providing the rope for your own hanging.
What did I saw the first post? SLAPP suit! Game, set and fucking match, dipshit.
God damn, Duncan!
This idiot is too easy!
Backslider--
As I said, extenuating circumstances. And didacticism.
But rather than seek the mercy of the court, I'll seek the mercy of the arms of Morpheus. (No, not the Matrix!)
'Night, all.
Backslider--
As I said, extenuating circumstances. And didacticism.
But rather than seek the mercy of the court, I'll seek the mercy of the arms of Morpheus. (No, not the Matrix!)
'Night, all.
Speaking of Cobain, did y'all know that he didn't really kill himself?
He was totally murdered, man. I know it sounds wacky, but it's true. There's like zero evidence indicating a suicide, and much that indicates a homicide.
Check it out:
www.cobaincase.com
Speaking of Cobain, did y'all know that he didn't really kill himself?
He was totally murdered, man. I know it sounds wacky, but it's true. There's like zero evidence indicating a suicide, and much that indicates a homicide.
Check it out:
www.cobaincase.com
Meanwhile, back at the game.
From CNN
"We have significant forces over there, and the Iraqi forces are growing larger and stronger by the day, and hopefully we'll be able to impose order in the Sunni Triangle," Powell said.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraq's interim defense minister was quoted by an Arabic-language newspaper Tuesday as saying he cannot guarantee the safety of voters or candidates in the country's elections scheduled for January 30.
Okay everyone a chorus of "Yes We Have No Bananas, We have no bananas today."
Meanwhile, back at the game.
From CNN
"We have significant forces over there, and the Iraqi forces are growing larger and stronger by the day, and hopefully we'll be able to impose order in the Sunni Triangle," Powell said.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraq's interim defense minister was quoted by an Arabic-language newspaper Tuesday as saying he cannot guarantee the safety of voters or candidates in the country's elections scheduled for January 30.
Okay everyone a chorus of "Yes We Have No Bananas, We have no bananas today."
What did I saw the first post? SLAPP suit! Game, set and fucking match, dipshit.
wow. i really wish i could respond to you coherently, but you've given me nothing coherent to work with here.
What did I saw the first post? SLAPP suit! Game, set and fucking match, dipshit.
wow. i really wish i could respond to you coherently, but you've given me nothing coherent to work with here.
SLAPP is not even a technical or legal term. "Lawsuit" is a technical term.
Robert M. Jeffers
Robert,
Did you even look at the link provided? Here is what it says;
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
IDIOT....
SLAPP is not even a technical or legal term. "Lawsuit" is a technical term.
Robert M. Jeffers
Robert,
Did you even look at the link provided? Here is what it says;
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
IDIOT....
Mr. Jeffers,
I understand. Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Me, I just wonder why he keeps refering to Atrios when the A-man's on his way to Spain at the moment.
Mr. Jeffers,
I understand. Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Me, I just wonder why he keeps refering to Atrios when the A-man's on his way to Spain at the moment.
Are you all that fucking blind?
If so, god help you, Duncan.
Are you all that fucking blind?
If so, god help you, Duncan.
Speaking of suicide, I used to feel like killing myself sometimes.
Then I started taking Prozac, and I got better.
Speaking of Prozac, have y'all read Prozac Nation by Elizabeth Wurtzel (sp?)? It's "da bomb".
I heard they made a movie of it. Haven't seen that. Put it on my list, ya know what I'm sayin'?
Speaking of suicide, I used to feel like killing myself sometimes.
Then I started taking Prozac, and I got better.
Speaking of Prozac, have y'all read Prozac Nation by Elizabeth Wurtzel (sp?)? It's "da bomb".
I heard they made a movie of it. Haven't seen that. Put it on my list, ya know what I'm sayin'?
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
Lessee...Black's Law Dictionary? No. Something called "fractured justice."
Yeah. Real authoritative. You are straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
The real question is: why are you so exercised over something so completely insignificant? You can't even prove your point, except by pointing to your own assertions. Your argument is groundless, and when you realize that, you fall back on childish schoolyard insults.
I don't think "upyernoz" is the one with the problem, here.
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
Lessee...Black's Law Dictionary? No. Something called "fractured justice."
Yeah. Real authoritative. You are straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
The real question is: why are you so exercised over something so completely insignificant? You can't even prove your point, except by pointing to your own assertions. Your argument is groundless, and when you realize that, you fall back on childish schoolyard insults.
I don't think "upyernoz" is the one with the problem, here.
SLAPP is not even a technical or legal term. "Lawsuit" is a technical term.
Robert M. Jeffers
Robert,
Did you even look at the link provided? Here is what it says;
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
yes, but does the link say SLAPP is a technical term? does it say what a SLAPP letter is? does it say anything that supports whatever point you're trying to make?
SLAPP is not even a technical or legal term. "Lawsuit" is a technical term.
Robert M. Jeffers
Robert,
Did you even look at the link provided? Here is what it says;
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
yes, but does the link say SLAPP is a technical term? does it say what a SLAPP letter is? does it say anything that supports whatever point you're trying to make?
I get my mind altering drugs from my wife. The rich moonbat!
She almost fell into the Grand Canyon!
I get my mind altering drugs from my wife. The rich moonbat!
She almost fell into the Grand Canyon!
This stand up comedian dude, I assume he's one of those, "did you ever notice how the arabs..."
This stand up comedian dude, I assume he's one of those, "did you ever notice how the arabs..."
JFK -- I don't normally jump in like this, but I'm concerned about you. If you have any desire to achieve clarity, you could begin by dropping the insults. That will lower your frustration threshhold a bit . . .
JFK -- I don't normally jump in like this, but I'm concerned about you. If you have any desire to achieve clarity, you could begin by dropping the insults. That will lower your frustration threshhold a bit . . .
Are you all that fucking blind?
If so, god help you, Duncan.
John F. Kerry | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 12:34 am | #
So, you're this bent out of shape over what boils down to legalese mumbo-jumbo and semantics? Good gravy.
And dude...Atrios is heading for Spain. He can't hear you.
Are you all that fucking blind?
If so, god help you, Duncan.
John F. Kerry | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 12:34 am | #
So, you're this bent out of shape over what boils down to legalese mumbo-jumbo and semantics? Good gravy.
And dude...Atrios is heading for Spain. He can't hear you.
does it say what a SLAPP letter is?
upyernoz
Reread YOUR link.
What is a SLAPP Suit?
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
What that means in a nutshell is: A lawsuit is brought against an individual or organization to basically "shut them up".
...........
http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
If you cannot see it, I pity Duncan...
does it say what a SLAPP letter is?
upyernoz
Reread YOUR link.
What is a SLAPP Suit?
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
What that means in a nutshell is: A lawsuit is brought against an individual or organization to basically "shut them up".
...........
http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
If you cannot see it, I pity Duncan...
JFK -- I don't normally jump in like this, but I'm concerned about you. If you have any desire to achieve clarity, you could begin by dropping the insults. That will lower your frustration threshhold a bit . . .
cs
I am only wanting to do Duncan a favor by trying to save his blog from a moron who posts links that hang his own ass.
I enjoy this actually. And I am a registered democrat.
JFK -- I don't normally jump in like this, but I'm concerned about you. If you have any desire to achieve clarity, you could begin by dropping the insults. That will lower your frustration threshhold a bit . . .
cs
I am only wanting to do Duncan a favor by trying to save his blog from a moron who posts links that hang his own ass.
I enjoy this actually. And I am a registered democrat.
"A man hears what he wants to hear, and disgregards the rest..ooh la la la...."
The rumors of my departure having been greatly exaggerated, I finally make them true.
Peace, love, woodstock, y'all.....
"A man hears what he wants to hear, and disgregards the rest..ooh la la la...."
The rumors of my departure having been greatly exaggerated, I finally make them true.
Peace, love, woodstock, y'all.....
I've seen meth heads with greater mental clarity than this "JFK" troll.
It's interesting to watch it writhe and spin, though.
I've seen meth heads with greater mental clarity than this "JFK" troll.
It's interesting to watch it writhe and spin, though.
So, you're this bent out of shape over what boils down to legalese mumbo-jumbo and semantics?
That's what trolls do when they don't have a point.
You know, the more I look at this the more I wonder why exactly Memri went public against Cole.
A lot of Memri's act relies on their being perceived as "non-partisan" and now that they're attacking Cole (whom most people haven't even heard of) their ties to the right are going to be brought out into the open.
It seems like a stupid move on their part but I can't help but wonder if maybe it's a bit of part of the right's general momentum to purge any expert/academic that doesn't toe their line 100%. Powell's gone. They're purging the CIA and presumably the State Department and they're simultaneously going after academia.
So, you're this bent out of shape over what boils down to legalese mumbo-jumbo and semantics?
That's what trolls do when they don't have a point.
You know, the more I look at this the more I wonder why exactly Memri went public against Cole.
A lot of Memri's act relies on their being perceived as "non-partisan" and now that they're attacking Cole (whom most people haven't even heard of) their ties to the right are going to be brought out into the open.
It seems like a stupid move on their part but I can't help but wonder if maybe it's a bit of part of the right's general momentum to purge any expert/academic that doesn't toe their line 100%. Powell's gone. They're purging the CIA and presumably the State Department and they're simultaneously going after academia.
Oh, and don't mention to "JFK" that Atrios was supposed to leave the keys to the liquor cabinet where I can find them when I get back home Friday night, okay?
He might just implode, and I wouldn't want that on my conscience.....
Oh, and don't mention to "JFK" that Atrios was supposed to leave the keys to the liquor cabinet where I can find them when I get back home Friday night, okay?
He might just implode, and I wouldn't want that on my conscience.....
I am only wanting to do Duncan a favor by trying to save his blog from a moron who posts links that hang his own ass.
Yeah, you're generosity and concern, in this matter and in the past, shines out like a stream of bat's piss in a dark night. One could readily notice your good intend by the calm, coherent and, above all, friendly way you leaped into this particular discussion.
I'm ashamed I even thought of doubting you for even a second.
I am only wanting to do Duncan a favor by trying to save his blog from a moron who posts links that hang his own ass.
Yeah, you're generosity and concern, in this matter and in the past, shines out like a stream of bat's piss in a dark night. One could readily notice your good intend by the calm, coherent and, above all, friendly way you leaped into this particular discussion.
I'm ashamed I even thought of doubting you for even a second.
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
Lessee...Black's Law Dictionary? No. Something called "fractured justice."
Yeah. Real authoritative. You are straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
The real question is: why are you so exercised over something so completely insignificant? You can't even prove your point, except by pointing to your own assertions. Your argument is groundless, and when you realize that, you fall back on childish schoolyard insults.
I don't think "upyernoz" is the one with the problem, here.
Robert M. Jeffers
upyernoz provided the link, idiot.
Catch-22 for upyernoz. YOU just proved it!
GET RID OF THIS CLOWN, Duncan!
SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation"
http://www.fracturedjustice.com/....com/
slapp.html
Lessee...Black's Law Dictionary? No. Something called "fractured justice."
Yeah. Real authoritative. You are straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
The real question is: why are you so exercised over something so completely insignificant? You can't even prove your point, except by pointing to your own assertions. Your argument is groundless, and when you realize that, you fall back on childish schoolyard insults.
I don't think "upyernoz" is the one with the problem, here.
Robert M. Jeffers
upyernoz provided the link, idiot.
Catch-22 for upyernoz. YOU just proved it!
GET RID OF THIS CLOWN, Duncan!
And I am a registered democrat.
Hang on a sec--will you repost that in, like, 30 seconds? I want to be drinking a glass of milk when I read it, to really capture the comedic moment.
And I am a registered democrat.
Hang on a sec--will you repost that in, like, 30 seconds? I want to be drinking a glass of milk when I read it, to really capture the comedic moment.
round and round we go. here's my last shot to reason with JFK before i go to sleep:
(1) my post says cole got a SLAPP letter, not that he was sued.
(2) because not everyone would know what a "SLAPP letter" was, i created a link to explain what "SLAPP" stands for.
(3) i assumed that the read would figure out that the definition was of SLAPP not SLAPP letter. i think i was 99% correct on that assumption
(4) nothing in my post says cole was sued, only that he was threatened to be sued
and robert is right. SLAPP is not a real technical term. it's just an acronym developed as a kind of slang to refer to a kind or lawsuit.
and JFK, don't pity duncan, pity me for trying to reason with you
round and round we go. here's my last shot to reason with JFK before i go to sleep:
(1) my post says cole got a SLAPP letter, not that he was sued.
(2) because not everyone would know what a "SLAPP letter" was, i created a link to explain what "SLAPP" stands for.
(3) i assumed that the read would figure out that the definition was of SLAPP not SLAPP letter. i think i was 99% correct on that assumption
(4) nothing in my post says cole was sued, only that he was threatened to be sued
and robert is right. SLAPP is not a real technical term. it's just an acronym developed as a kind of slang to refer to a kind or lawsuit.
and JFK, don't pity duncan, pity me for trying to reason with you
Ah, you enjoy hurling insults . . . Well then, never mind.
Ah, you enjoy hurling insults . . . Well then, never mind.
SWR,
Like I said, it reminds me of when Luskin got his britches in a bundle over some crack in the Eschaton comments section (if I recall correctly, anyway). "Man says bad things about us, we sue if man not take back bad things". I imagine, depending on the depths of one's pockets, it can be a useful intimidation technique.
SWR,
Like I said, it reminds me of when Luskin got his britches in a bundle over some crack in the Eschaton comments section (if I recall correctly, anyway). "Man says bad things about us, we sue if man not take back bad things". I imagine, depending on the depths of one's pockets, it can be a useful intimidation technique.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
And I am a registered democrat.
(how's that?)
And I am a registered democrat.
(how's that?)
Like I said, it reminds me of when Luskin got his britches in a bundle over some crack in the Eschaton comments section (if I recall correctly, anyway). "Man says bad things about us, we sue if man not take back bad things". I imagine, depending on the depths of one's pockets, it can be a useful intimidation technique
You know what the real mindfuck about the whole issue of the wacky, anti-semitic Saudi press is?
Memri has ties to the Bush administration and the Bush administration has ties to both the anti-semites in the Saudi government and the wingnut Israeli right.
I just wonder how all of those people get along together.
Like I said, it reminds me of when Luskin got his britches in a bundle over some crack in the Eschaton comments section (if I recall correctly, anyway). "Man says bad things about us, we sue if man not take back bad things". I imagine, depending on the depths of one's pockets, it can be a useful intimidation technique
You know what the real mindfuck about the whole issue of the wacky, anti-semitic Saudi press is?
Memri has ties to the Bush administration and the Bush administration has ties to both the anti-semites in the Saudi government and the wingnut Israeli right.
I just wonder how all of those people get along together.
Hang on a sec--will you repost that in, like, 30 seconds? I want to be drinking a glass of milk when I read it, to really capture the comedic moment.
grr
I am.
Want to hear something even more funny?
Both parties have moved left, I stayed the same.
I always liked Sam Nunn and Zell Miller. The "ole" democrats. Not the garbage running now.
I voted for it, before I voted against it.
I'm reporting for duty.
Give me a fucking break. Where has he been the last twenty years in the Senate?
Hang on a sec--will you repost that in, like, 30 seconds? I want to be drinking a glass of milk when I read it, to really capture the comedic moment.
grr
I am.
Want to hear something even more funny?
Both parties have moved left, I stayed the same.
I always liked Sam Nunn and Zell Miller. The "ole" democrats. Not the garbage running now.
I voted for it, before I voted against it.
I'm reporting for duty.
Give me a fucking break. Where has he been the last twenty years in the Senate?
I see upyernoz got lost now.
I think I proved my point.
Next time upyernoz, don't provide the rope for your own hanging....
I see upyernoz got lost now.
I think I proved my point.
Next time upyernoz, don't provide the rope for your own hanging....
"Man says bad things about us, we sue if man not take back bad things".
If Johnny Weissmuller, as Tarzan, went to law school, that's how he would say it.
"Man says bad things about us, we sue if man not take back bad things".
If Johnny Weissmuller, as Tarzan, went to law school, that's how he would say it.
Where has he been the last twenty years in the Senate?
When you're losing the debate, the best tactic is to change the subject.
G'night all.
Where has he been the last twenty years in the Senate?
When you're losing the debate, the best tactic is to change the subject.
G'night all.
don't provide the rope for your own hanging....
That sure is a clever line, innit?
I'll keep using it, to make sure everyone understands how clever it is.
don't provide the rope for your own hanging....
That sure is a clever line, innit?
I'll keep using it, to make sure everyone understands how clever it is.
I'll keep using it, to make sure everyone understands how clever it is.
John F. Kerry
LMFAO! Jack-ass, we could drink beer together.
Good night, all.
I'll keep using it, to make sure everyone understands how clever it is.
John F. Kerry
LMFAO! Jack-ass, we could drink beer together.
Good night, all.
I just wonder how all of those people get along together.
SWR | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 12:49 am | #
Hey, money makes the world go round, brother. Find out who's getting paid and you'll find the path to truth.
I just wonder how all of those people get along together.
SWR | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 12:49 am | #
Hey, money makes the world go round, brother. Find out who's getting paid and you'll find the path to truth.
Osamabinlazy, is that you? Do ya like "old school" Democrats like George Wallace, Ross Barnett and Lester Maddox, too?
Osamabinlazy, is that you? Do ya like "old school" Democrats like George Wallace, Ross Barnett and Lester Maddox, too?
(still laughing, hoping the troll is hopped up on enough meth so I don't have to watch the Daily Show repeat)
Attack John Stewart now! C'mon, do a bit about the "liberal media"!
(still laughing, hoping the troll is hopped up on enough meth so I don't have to watch the Daily Show repeat)
Attack John Stewart now! C'mon, do a bit about the "liberal media"!
Osamabinlazy, is that you? Do ya like "old school" Democrats like George Wallace, Ross Barnett and Lester Maddox, too?
Don't forget Theodore G. Bilbo and John Rankin.
Gee, you think that some Arab or European equivalent of Memri could publish some of Bilbo, Rankin, and, on a bit of a more high-brow level, Henry Cabot Lodge's more racist tracts and use them to alert the world to the virulence of the American Protestant mind.
And lest anybody say that they're a thing of the past, I give you James Dobson and 12 anti-gay marriage initiatives.
Osamabinlazy, is that you? Do ya like "old school" Democrats like George Wallace, Ross Barnett and Lester Maddox, too?
Don't forget Theodore G. Bilbo and John Rankin.
Gee, you think that some Arab or European equivalent of Memri could publish some of Bilbo, Rankin, and, on a bit of a more high-brow level, Henry Cabot Lodge's more racist tracts and use them to alert the world to the virulence of the American Protestant mind.
And lest anybody say that they're a thing of the past, I give you James Dobson and 12 anti-gay marriage initiatives.
SWR - I'd refer to MEMRI and Campus Watch as "United Front" organisations. A small group of cadres that create a bunch of front organisations claiming to be independent and non-partisan. They try to muddy their connections to their sponsoring Party, while trying to act as an independent non-partisan supporter of the Party line.
The reason the trolls have been bashing hard on this thread is because it's a prominent blog that exposes one of their "United Front" organisations for what it really is. Possible loss of credibility for a Party propaganda mouthpiece is serious business.
SWR - I'd refer to MEMRI and Campus Watch as "United Front" organisations. A small group of cadres that create a bunch of front organisations claiming to be independent and non-partisan. They try to muddy their connections to their sponsoring Party, while trying to act as an independent non-partisan supporter of the Party line.
The reason the trolls have been bashing hard on this thread is because it's a prominent blog that exposes one of their "United Front" organisations for what it really is. Possible loss of credibility for a Party propaganda mouthpiece is serious business.
she's one to listen to, folks!
she's one to listen to, folks!
she's one to listen to, folks!
she's one to listen to, folks!
SWR - I'd refer to MEMRI and Campus Watch as "United Front" organisations. A small group of cadres that create a bunch of front organisations claiming to be independent and non-partisan. They try to muddy their connections to their sponsoring Party, while trying to act as an independent non-partisan supporter of the Party line.
After 2004, what exactly is the purpose of groups like Memri anymore anyway?
The Labor Party in Israel and the Democratic Party in the USA are fucked beyond repair. Oslo is dead. We've got troops in Iraq and we're currently in the process of flattening most of the "Sunni Triangle".
Post 9/11, most Americans hate Arabs anyway. It's not as though the typical Catholic guy in a bar in New Jersey somewhere loves Muslims.
The only thing they really have left now is academia. Oh, right. They want to purge that. Nevermind.
SWR - I'd refer to MEMRI and Campus Watch as "United Front" organisations. A small group of cadres that create a bunch of front organisations claiming to be independent and non-partisan. They try to muddy their connections to their sponsoring Party, while trying to act as an independent non-partisan supporter of the Party line.
After 2004, what exactly is the purpose of groups like Memri anymore anyway?
The Labor Party in Israel and the Democratic Party in the USA are fucked beyond repair. Oslo is dead. We've got troops in Iraq and we're currently in the process of flattening most of the "Sunni Triangle".
Post 9/11, most Americans hate Arabs anyway. It's not as though the typical Catholic guy in a bar in New Jersey somewhere loves Muslims.
The only thing they really have left now is academia. Oh, right. They want to purge that. Nevermind.
Oops! Sorry about the double postings.
Also, Tom is making a lot of sense here. Take note.
Oops! Sorry about the double postings.
Also, Tom is making a lot of sense here. Take note.
Sorry Karin, but I'm just not convinced that you in fact rule.
.
Sorry Karin, but I'm just not convinced that you in fact rule.
.
Just to clarify, I am not Karin and I didn't mean to make her look bad in any way shape or form. I was just trying to point out I agree with her postings. That's all.
Just to clarify, I am not Karin and I didn't mean to make her look bad in any way shape or form. I was just trying to point out I agree with her postings. That's all.
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
Louis XIV.
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
Louis XIV.
Put your money where your mouth is!
Put your money where your mouth is!
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
Right now, Mott The Hoople's double-disc retrospective. In general, lots of rock & roll from the '50s, '60s and '70s, made by country boys who didn't realize the whole Beatles-San Francisco-psychadelic thing happened. Stuff like Charlie Rich and Narvel Felts and Jumpin' Gene Simmons. Good shit and I'm currently obsessed with it.
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
Right now, Mott The Hoople's double-disc retrospective. In general, lots of rock & roll from the '50s, '60s and '70s, made by country boys who didn't realize the whole Beatles-San Francisco-psychadelic thing happened. Stuff like Charlie Rich and Narvel Felts and Jumpin' Gene Simmons. Good shit and I'm currently obsessed with it.
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
Ashley Stove.
Great records, love their stuff -- horrible, horrible band name. Oh well.
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
Ashley Stove.
Great records, love their stuff -- horrible, horrible band name. Oh well.
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
Percy Hill is always in the rotation. One of the best bands that no one's heard of.
so what music have you guys been listening to lately?
Percy Hill is always in the rotation. One of the best bands that no one's heard of.
Did you bother to read "atrios" during the run up to the election? It was a non-stop propaganda mill. These guys are a political pump and dump operation for the Kerry boys. If you don't understand how a shop like "atrios" works, you laughably naive.
Did you bother to read "atrios" during the run up to the election? It was a non-stop propaganda mill. These guys are a political pump and dump operation for the Kerry boys. If you don't understand how a shop like "atrios" works, you laughably naive.
hat's funny.
hat's funny.
hat's funny.
Olaf glad and big | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 2:35 am | #
He's up past his bedtime, too. I still can't figure out why he puts "atrios" in quotation marks.
hat's funny.
Olaf glad and big | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 2:35 am | #
He's up past his bedtime, too. I still can't figure out why he puts "atrios" in quotation marks.
I'm a little surprised we didn't go to the Wiki definition of SLAPP, because let's face it, Wiki rules!
It is a rare occasion, my friends, when the Wikster does not reward my search justly!
I'm a little surprised we didn't go to the Wiki definition of SLAPP, because let's face it, Wiki rules!
It is a rare occasion, my friends, when the Wikster does not reward my search justly!
I remember when hat made a comeback at me three days after I posted something in a thread.
You are my bitch, hat.
Who's your daddy?
I remember when hat made a comeback at me three days after I posted something in a thread.
You are my bitch, hat.
Who's your daddy?
I got a big chuckle out of Daniel Pipes' spittle-flecked condemnation of 'The Power of Nightmares', which, curiously enough, didn't mention that it prominently featured... his dad. Speaking freely and openly about his role in 'Team B'. Obviously the tissue of lies included his poppy, yes?
Fuckwit. Like the astonishingly dumb dumbfucks that troll here.
I got a big chuckle out of Daniel Pipes' spittle-flecked condemnation of 'The Power of Nightmares', which, curiously enough, didn't mention that it prominently featured... his dad. Speaking freely and openly about his role in 'Team B'. Obviously the tissue of lies included his poppy, yes?
Fuckwit. Like the astonishingly dumb dumbfucks that troll here.
It's not as though the typical Catholic guy in a bar in New Jersey somewhere loves Muslims.
Nah, though the same typical Catholic guy probably stuck a few dollars in the hat 'for the Cause' through the 80s, when the IRA was busily blowing and shooting up bars in Northern Ireland. I've been in some of those Irish bars in north Jersey. Fucking disgusting.
It's not as though the typical Catholic guy in a bar in New Jersey somewhere loves Muslims.
Nah, though the same typical Catholic guy probably stuck a few dollars in the hat 'for the Cause' through the 80s, when the IRA was busily blowing and shooting up bars in Northern Ireland. I've been in some of those Irish bars in north Jersey. Fucking disgusting.
i've never been to any irish bars in jersey, but i'm guessing they are similar to the ones in boston.