I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
We are Fristed
We are Fristed
First!1!
First!1!
Won't this all create a "bubble" effect: those who are currently invested will run up prices before the big bonanza, then cash in?
And of course, the brokers get paid.
.
Won't this all create a "bubble" effect: those who are currently invested will run up prices before the big bonanza, then cash in?
And of course, the brokers get paid.
.
are we also going to start a super shiny bail-out fund for the idiots who make terrible decisions in their brand new personal social security accounts? Look at how most people "manage" their 401ks - they're constantly chasing past performance and over-trading. Its not conjecture, its a fact that many will blow themselves up in these accounts and will need a bailout when they retire. George W Bush WILL raise taxes at some point in the next 4 years - if not we will have a dollar with the value of toilet paper.
are we also going to start a super shiny bail-out fund for the idiots who make terrible decisions in their brand new personal social security accounts? Look at how most people "manage" their 401ks - they're constantly chasing past performance and over-trading. Its not conjecture, its a fact that many will blow themselves up in these accounts and will need a bailout when they retire. George W Bush WILL raise taxes at some point in the next 4 years - if not we will have a dollar with the value of toilet paper.
Do your kids a favor - teach them to speak Chinese
Do your kids a favor - teach them to speak Chinese
maybe, just maybe, when the embers on the charred ruins that used to be our social security safety net start to finally cool, will people acknowledge that the right is only truly dedicated to diverting as much money as humanly possible to their corporate donors. the saddest thing is that even the christian right is being used.
maybe, just maybe, when the embers on the charred ruins that used to be our social security safety net start to finally cool, will people acknowledge that the right is only truly dedicated to diverting as much money as humanly possible to their corporate donors. the saddest thing is that even the christian right is being used.
George W Bush WILL raise taxes at some point in the next 4 years - if not we will have a dollar with the value of toilet paper.
This is tangential, but will somebody please school me on why a round of hefty inflation would be bad for average consumers? It would be bad for holders of fixed-income assets, yes, but with everyone up to their neck in debt, wouldn't everyone be better off paying it off with cheaper dollars?
George W Bush WILL raise taxes at some point in the next 4 years - if not we will have a dollar with the value of toilet paper.
This is tangential, but will somebody please school me on why a round of hefty inflation would be bad for average consumers? It would be bad for holders of fixed-income assets, yes, but with everyone up to their neck in debt, wouldn't everyone be better off paying it off with cheaper dollars?
MYTH #1: UNLESS WE DO SOMETHING BOLD, SOON, SOCIAL SECURITY WILL GO BANKRUPT.
It is true that the government projects that the Social Security trust funds, now growing by more than $150 billion a year, will be drawn down to zero in 2042. But those same estimates also show that, after 2042, Social Security payroll taxes will be sufficient to finance about 75 percent of the payments that will be owed to the program's beneficiaries. These projections are made using extremely conservative assumptions about economic growth. If our economy continues to perform well, there is likely to be no shortfall at all.
MYTH #2: WE CAN DIVERT SOME SOCIAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTIONS TO PRIVATE ACCOUNTS WITHOUT JEOPARDIZING THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM.
The balances accumulating in the Social Security trust funds are earning returns that will help meet future commitments to retirees. If the revenues flowing into the trust funds were diverted into private accounts, there would be fewer resources to pay benefits to future retirees; we would be more likely to face a revenue shortfall in the future.
MYTH #3: THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM WASTES MONEY THAT WILL BE SAVED IF WE INTRODUCE INDIVIDUAL PRIVATE ACCOUNTS.
Exactly the opposite is true. The Social Security system costs far less to operate than private investment funds. Public opinion polls by Roper show that the public guesses the administrative costs of Social Security as a percentage of benefits to be more than 50 percent. In fact, administrative costs for Social Security are less than 1 percent of benefits, compared with average administrative costs of 12 to14 percent for private insurers.
MYTH #4: SMALL PRIVATE ACCOUNTS WILL GET A MUCH BETTER RATE OFF RETURN THAN THE SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUNDS.
One large account can earn exactly the same rate of return as many small accounts. Historically, investors have not been able systematically to do better than to buy and hold a diversified portfolio of the stocks and bonds offered in major markets.
MYTH #5: WELL MANAGED PRIVATE ACCOUNTS NEED NOT BE RISKY.
All private investing is risky. If a person had acquired a broad index of stocks over his working life, retired and sold these stocks on October 18, 1987, he would have realized 18 percent less income per year in retirement than the person who had behaved exactly the same in every respect, except that he exited the market one day earlier.
MYTH #1: UNLESS WE DO SOMETHING BOLD, SOON, SOCIAL SECURITY WILL GO BANKRUPT.
It is true that the government projects that the Social Security trust funds, now growing by more than $150 billion a year, will be drawn down to zero in 2042. But those same estimates also show that, after 2042, Social Security payroll taxes will be sufficient to finance about 75 percent of the payments that will be owed to the program's beneficiaries. These projections are made using extremely conservative assumptions about economic growth. If our economy continues to perform well, there is likely to be no shortfall at all.
MYTH #2: WE CAN DIVERT SOME SOCIAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTIONS TO PRIVATE ACCOUNTS WITHOUT JEOPARDIZING THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM.
The balances accumulating in the Social Security trust funds are earning returns that will help meet future commitments to retirees. If the revenues flowing into the trust funds were diverted into private accounts, there would be fewer resources to pay benefits to future retirees; we would be more likely to face a revenue shortfall in the future.
MYTH #3: THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM WASTES MONEY THAT WILL BE SAVED IF WE INTRODUCE INDIVIDUAL PRIVATE ACCOUNTS.
Exactly the opposite is true. The Social Security system costs far less to operate than private investment funds. Public opinion polls by Roper show that the public guesses the administrative costs of Social Security as a percentage of benefits to be more than 50 percent. In fact, administrative costs for Social Security are less than 1 percent of benefits, compared with average administrative costs of 12 to14 percent for private insurers.
MYTH #4: SMALL PRIVATE ACCOUNTS WILL GET A MUCH BETTER RATE OFF RETURN THAN THE SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUNDS.
One large account can earn exactly the same rate of return as many small accounts. Historically, investors have not been able systematically to do better than to buy and hold a diversified portfolio of the stocks and bonds offered in major markets.
MYTH #5: WELL MANAGED PRIVATE ACCOUNTS NEED NOT BE RISKY.
All private investing is risky. If a person had acquired a broad index of stocks over his working life, retired and sold these stocks on October 18, 1987, he would have realized 18 percent less income per year in retirement than the person who had behaved exactly the same in every respect, except that he exited the market one day earlier.
I just don't get it. It's like they are setting out to deliberately fuck the US and its future. It's like a bad spy novel... who are they really working for?
I just don't get it. It's like they are setting out to deliberately fuck the US and its future. It's like a bad spy novel... who are they really working for?
the saddest thing is that even the christian right is being used.
Actually, that's the funniest thing, not the saddest.
the saddest thing is that even the christian right is being used.
Actually, that's the funniest thing, not the saddest.
OT - There will a vote-recount rally at the Ohio State House in Columbus OH on Dec. 4 at 1 p.m. Greg Palast is scheduled to speak.
With support from the US, thousands upon thousands of Ukranians are in the streets demanding fair elections. That's all we're asking for in Ohio.
Please tell everyone you know about the rally, plan to attend if travel distance makes it at all possible. If you can't make it, lend support to friends who can attend the rally in your stead.
CASE - Ohio plans to update it's site with rally information as soon as it becomes available. Visit the site and contact the folks at CASE if you want to learn more in the intermim. Here's the link:
http://www.caseohio.org/CaseOhio/
OT - There will a vote-recount rally at the Ohio State House in Columbus OH on Dec. 4 at 1 p.m. Greg Palast is scheduled to speak.
With support from the US, thousands upon thousands of Ukranians are in the streets demanding fair elections. That's all we're asking for in Ohio.
Please tell everyone you know about the rally, plan to attend if travel distance makes it at all possible. If you can't make it, lend support to friends who can attend the rally in your stead.
CASE - Ohio plans to update it's site with rally information as soon as it becomes available. Visit the site and contact the folks at CASE if you want to learn more in the intermim. Here's the link:
http://www.caseohio.org/CaseOhio/
Yep they'll force you to "save" the money by putting investing it in the market so corportate raiders like Ken Lay can get their grubby hands on it.
I never see mentioned the fact that if our 401k's weren't safe in their hands, why the hell will our social security money be.
Yep they'll force you to "save" the money by putting investing it in the market so corportate raiders like Ken Lay can get their grubby hands on it.
I never see mentioned the fact that if our 401k's weren't safe in their hands, why the hell will our social security money be.
Ouranophobia- Fear of heaven.
What's scary about heaven?
Christians hang out there.
Ouranophobia- Fear of heaven.
What's scary about heaven?
Christians hang out there.
Maybe the Democrats will awaken from their coma and actually do some grass roots work on saving social security.
It could be a rallying issue.
Did I use the words "democrats" and "will" in the same sentance?
'Sorry.
Maybe the Democrats will awaken from their coma and actually do some grass roots work on saving social security.
It could be a rallying issue.
Did I use the words "democrats" and "will" in the same sentance?
'Sorry.
e
not a
of course
e
not a
of course
It'll be like one last corp. feast on government.
Think of the Last Supper, with Bush as Jesus and his cronnies all around him, in awe.
It is the rebirth, the resurrection of our historic past. True America! Get it while you can. Every one for themselves. Step on the less and trick the greater.
Bla bla bla.
*sniff* *sniff* Oh-ohhhh say can you see....
It'll be like one last corp. feast on government.
Think of the Last Supper, with Bush as Jesus and his cronnies all around him, in awe.
It is the rebirth, the resurrection of our historic past. True America! Get it while you can. Every one for themselves. Step on the less and trick the greater.
Bla bla bla.
*sniff* *sniff* Oh-ohhhh say can you see....
Maybe the Democrats will awaken from their coma and actually do some grass roots work on saving social security.
Why don't you do some reading on the matter. And does it really need saving? If the rethugs "rape" the program as they plan it truely will need saving.
Maybe the Democrats will awaken from their coma and actually do some grass roots work on saving social security.
Why don't you do some reading on the matter. And does it really need saving? If the rethugs "rape" the program as they plan it truely will need saving.
Any suggestions, re; reading on the subject of the modern social security crisis?
Yes, I do think the repugs will try to rape it.
And yes, I think it's worth saving.
I may even be among a smaller minority that wants to see it expanded.
Any suggestions, re; reading on the subject of the modern social security crisis?
Yes, I do think the repugs will try to rape it.
And yes, I think it's worth saving.
I may even be among a smaller minority that wants to see it expanded.
Does this idea not rest, in part, on a generational conflict? I distinctly recall Bush saying something snarky about how the Baby Boomers were doing okay and suggesting that the change in benefits would affect people now under 55. Which means if you're in your early 50s or even 40s, you won't have a lot of time to adjust to a different program. And, as others have pointed out, 401k programs have taken a beating; why would this program be any better? Seriously, are we missing something? (No, I don't think so, just felt I had to ask).
Does this idea not rest, in part, on a generational conflict? I distinctly recall Bush saying something snarky about how the Baby Boomers were doing okay and suggesting that the change in benefits would affect people now under 55. Which means if you're in your early 50s or even 40s, you won't have a lot of time to adjust to a different program. And, as others have pointed out, 401k programs have taken a beating; why would this program be any better? Seriously, are we missing something? (No, I don't think so, just felt I had to ask).
Yeah, this makes sense - borrow billions, perhaps trillions to pay out money that doesn't need to be paid out yet. And pay it out to people who by and large don't have a clue what to do with it. So everyone gets ripped off by brokers and conmen and seniors end up eating cat food.
I fucking hate these people.
Yeah, this makes sense - borrow billions, perhaps trillions to pay out money that doesn't need to be paid out yet. And pay it out to people who by and large don't have a clue what to do with it. So everyone gets ripped off by brokers and conmen and seniors end up eating cat food.
I fucking hate these people.
that is one scary trial balloon.
At least it has a name: PRIVATIZING SOCIAL SECURTIY.
Let's not lose that in the wash, here.
These folks are evil. The ownership society--you are on your own; and corporate account managers make billions off the vig on private social security.
that is one scary trial balloon.
At least it has a name: PRIVATIZING SOCIAL SECURTIY.
Let's not lose that in the wash, here.
These folks are evil. The ownership society--you are on your own; and corporate account managers make billions off the vig on private social security.
With the complete economic crash and market collapse fueled by the current deficits expect in 2005, I don't think this idea is going to have a chance to fly, no matter how they try to sell it.
With the complete economic crash and market collapse fueled by the current deficits expect in 2005, I don't think this idea is going to have a chance to fly, no matter how they try to sell it.
We have all bought the koolaid sold by the blinded by the right Ayn Rand apers.
Ayn Rand preached boldly that greed and selfishness were unadorned and superior virtues.
Ayn Rand has many apostles today.
The generation who survived both the Great Depression and World War Two are becoming thinner on the ground every day, and the hardwon wisdom of their experience is not merely forgotten but maligned by our 'current leadership'.
We will pay a high price for this hubris. Possibly soon.
PS Congratulations, Atrios -- Hecate and Robert M Jeffers are gems in the firmament of Eschaton!
We have all bought the koolaid sold by the blinded by the right Ayn Rand apers.
Ayn Rand preached boldly that greed and selfishness were unadorned and superior virtues.
Ayn Rand has many apostles today.
The generation who survived both the Great Depression and World War Two are becoming thinner on the ground every day, and the hardwon wisdom of their experience is not merely forgotten but maligned by our 'current leadership'.
We will pay a high price for this hubris. Possibly soon.
PS Congratulations, Atrios -- Hecate and Robert M Jeffers are gems in the firmament of Eschaton!
The personal savings rate is down to 0.2% now.
As long as everyone can live on 0.2% of their current income during retirement I don't see what the problem is.
The personal savings rate is down to 0.2% now.
As long as everyone can live on 0.2% of their current income during retirement I don't see what the problem is.
The Other Sarah-You know, given her hairstyle, Ayn Rand would make a great chia doll.
The Other Sarah-You know, given her hairstyle, Ayn Rand would make a great chia doll.
I have never understood just who is clamoring for a change in social security. I get that there are people who want an end to all the things that they perceive as the great social ills of our times: abortion, gay marriage, etc. But I haven't heard the common voice begging for an end to social security. Who is asking for the change? Who is behind this?
And isn't there a reason why it's called social security and not social investment?
I have never understood just who is clamoring for a change in social security. I get that there are people who want an end to all the things that they perceive as the great social ills of our times: abortion, gay marriage, etc. But I haven't heard the common voice begging for an end to social security. Who is asking for the change? Who is behind this?
And isn't there a reason why it's called social security and not social investment?
Does this idea not rest, in part, on a generational conflict?
I don't think it's a generational conflict, as much as it is the fact that many young people don't "remember" what life was like before we has Social Security and other social net programs. And when I say "remember" I'm including the fact that baby boomers were raised by parents and grandparents who rememberd the Depression. My grandmother was able to live on her own until her late 80s due entirely to the fact that my grandfather paid into social security for a short time before he died. My parents were grateful for that. My son's generation, OTOH, has never really known a world w/o social safety nets. And, when you're farther away from retirement, it's easier to believe that "somehow" you'll make it all up and it will come out allright.
Does this idea not rest, in part, on a generational conflict?
I don't think it's a generational conflict, as much as it is the fact that many young people don't "remember" what life was like before we has Social Security and other social net programs. And when I say "remember" I'm including the fact that baby boomers were raised by parents and grandparents who rememberd the Depression. My grandmother was able to live on her own until her late 80s due entirely to the fact that my grandfather paid into social security for a short time before he died. My parents were grateful for that. My son's generation, OTOH, has never really known a world w/o social safety nets. And, when you're farther away from retirement, it's easier to believe that "somehow" you'll make it all up and it will come out allright.
I'm honestly curious if we will be able to put this sacred "savings account" money into foreign investments. I would bet you anything, they will not let you do that.
So there we are, subsidizing the corporations with tax breaks, forced investment, and, in some cases patronizing their places of business because there are few alternatives. I hate these mo fo's.
I'm honestly curious if we will be able to put this sacred "savings account" money into foreign investments. I would bet you anything, they will not let you do that.
So there we are, subsidizing the corporations with tax breaks, forced investment, and, in some cases patronizing their places of business because there are few alternatives. I hate these mo fo's.
I have a problem. Every file I download gets corrupted. I wonder if my computer is republican?
I have a problem. Every file I download gets corrupted. I wonder if my computer is republican?
My husband finally agreed that we need to start thinking about leaving the country. He wants to go to Toronto or Greece (he was born there and has dual citizenship.) The only down point on Greece is that my son will have to join the military at 18. My husband said it isn't a problem because Greece will never go to Iraq and the worst thing my son would have to do is probably be in the information services. He wants me to start putting the passports in order. Once he hears about this crap will be gone.
My husband finally agreed that we need to start thinking about leaving the country. He wants to go to Toronto or Greece (he was born there and has dual citizenship.) The only down point on Greece is that my son will have to join the military at 18. My husband said it isn't a problem because Greece will never go to Iraq and the worst thing my son would have to do is probably be in the information services. He wants me to start putting the passports in order. Once he hears about this crap will be gone.
Didn't I read somewhere that if SS money is diverted to the stock market, all stocks would be owned by individuals. We are talking lots money here.
My take is that they are indeed looking to destroy SS and this is but the first step. The brokerage houses will make a mint on commission fees.
I never believed in an international cabal of bankers that actually run the world, but right now I would not complain if some grownups stepped up to the plate and stopped the insanity.
Octavia Butler wrote a scary novel that depicts what the US will become if we continue down this path. Anarchy in streets. Families agreeing to live in gated and guarded communities in exchange for their labor and company script. A population barely literate. Crikes - with just a little imagination anyone can see we are headed towards self-destruction.
Didn't I read somewhere that if SS money is diverted to the stock market, all stocks would be owned by individuals. We are talking lots money here.
My take is that they are indeed looking to destroy SS and this is but the first step. The brokerage houses will make a mint on commission fees.
I never believed in an international cabal of bankers that actually run the world, but right now I would not complain if some grownups stepped up to the plate and stopped the insanity.
Octavia Butler wrote a scary novel that depicts what the US will become if we continue down this path. Anarchy in streets. Families agreeing to live in gated and guarded communities in exchange for their labor and company script. A population barely literate. Crikes - with just a little imagination anyone can see we are headed towards self-destruction.
"but with everyone up to their neck in debt, wouldn't everyone be better off paying it off with cheaper dollars?"
Sadly, no. This is mostly credit-card debt or ARM's and the interest rates will simply rise even more. So Jane Q. Public will have to pay more interest to Bank of the Worst on the same lousy salary. Inflation only really works for people whose income is in some way tied to the interest rate.
"but with everyone up to their neck in debt, wouldn't everyone be better off paying it off with cheaper dollars?"
Sadly, no. This is mostly credit-card debt or ARM's and the interest rates will simply rise even more. So Jane Q. Public will have to pay more interest to Bank of the Worst on the same lousy salary. Inflation only really works for people whose income is in some way tied to the interest rate.
im accidentlaly listening to NPR & the topic is (i quote) "ATHEISM: THE DENIAL OF GOD"
talk about negative framing!!!!!
i dont know who the guests are, but they are in agreement "atheism is a road to nowhere!!!'
im accidentlaly listening to NPR & the topic is (i quote) "ATHEISM: THE DENIAL OF GOD"
talk about negative framing!!!!!
i dont know who the guests are, but they are in agreement "atheism is a road to nowhere!!!'
You can use the true argument that Social Security is an insurance policy and NOT savings investment.
Jeez, this issue has been skewed soooo bad, we really have to do some major talking points work on it.
You can use the true argument that Social Security is an insurance policy and NOT savings investment.
Jeez, this issue has been skewed soooo bad, we really have to do some major talking points work on it.
It's not 'privitization', it's 'commercialization.
You don't have your SS money now -- the gov't has it.
You won't have your SS money later, either. Scudder or Templeton or Mario Gabelli will have it.
At least when the gov't has it, we can periodically throw the bums out.
It's the Financial Services Industry Full Employment and Guaranteed Profitability in Perpetuity Act of 2005...
It's not 'privitization', it's 'commercialization.
You don't have your SS money now -- the gov't has it.
You won't have your SS money later, either. Scudder or Templeton or Mario Gabelli will have it.
At least when the gov't has it, we can periodically throw the bums out.
It's the Financial Services Industry Full Employment and Guaranteed Profitability in Perpetuity Act of 2005...
We should also point out that the fundi churches don't pay taxes but are getting pots of tax money from Bush for "faith-based" programs. And he is arranging it so that there is no oversight on this money so they can easily spend it on themselves for air-conditioned dog houses. This should enrage people because fundis have a long history of mis-appropriation of funds. Remember PTL. Now imagine many PTL's playing with YOUR tax dollars.
We should also point out that the fundi churches don't pay taxes but are getting pots of tax money from Bush for "faith-based" programs. And he is arranging it so that there is no oversight on this money so they can easily spend it on themselves for air-conditioned dog houses. This should enrage people because fundis have a long history of mis-appropriation of funds. Remember PTL. Now imagine many PTL's playing with YOUR tax dollars.
QuiltLady - AT last! Another Octavia Butler fan. I've been singing her praises here forever and almost no one else has responded.
Did you read Lilith's Brood, too? It is incredible.
QuiltLady - AT last! Another Octavia Butler fan. I've been singing her praises here forever and almost no one else has responded.
Did you read Lilith's Brood, too? It is incredible.
"atheism is a road to nowhere!!!'
Good, that's what I'm betting on. Nowhere equals everywhere.
I exist forever. I am god.
"atheism is a road to nowhere!!!'
Good, that's what I'm betting on. Nowhere equals everywhere.
I exist forever. I am god.
Ouranophobia
There is now hope for those with this problem. Take a look at
http://www.changethatsrightnow.c...p?SDID=547:
1747
Ouranophobia
There is now hope for those with this problem. Take a look at
http://www.changethatsrightnow.c...p?SDID=547:
1747
Thank god, I'm atheist.
Thank god, I'm atheist.
What Davis X Machina said: " It's the Financial Services Industry Full Employment and Guaranteed Profitability in Perpetuity Act of 2005..."
What Davis X Machina said: " It's the Financial Services Industry Full Employment and Guaranteed Profitability in Perpetuity Act of 2005..."
sekmet good point,
I would add these "think-tanks" on the right. I think they need to be investigated on their "non-profit" status.
sekmet good point,
I would add these "think-tanks" on the right. I think they need to be investigated on their "non-profit" status.
Commercialization--now we are in the game.
Commercialization--now we are in the game.
Krugman will explain the mess clearly enough for even Koppel to understand, then he'll be soundly derided by know-nothing generalists (I'm looking at you, Krazy Andy).
Krugman will explain the mess clearly enough for even Koppel to understand, then he'll be soundly derided by know-nothing generalists (I'm looking at you, Krazy Andy).
I am ready to take a page from the Iraqi resistance manual. Let them win and do the local insurgent thing. Let them choke off the federal government. We all need to move to the blue and nearly blue states and work to make them as close to heaven as possible.
Let the red states go down the tubes. Fund healthcare and family planning at the blue state level. Let the red states teach creationism and their colleges sink into oblivion. Give them what they want. Let them do tort reform and repair it with our blue state laws.
Let's see which works better: redism or blueism. Betting on this would be like taking candy from babies.
I am ready to take a page from the Iraqi resistance manual. Let them win and do the local insurgent thing. Let them choke off the federal government. We all need to move to the blue and nearly blue states and work to make them as close to heaven as possible.
Let the red states go down the tubes. Fund healthcare and family planning at the blue state level. Let the red states teach creationism and their colleges sink into oblivion. Give them what they want. Let them do tort reform and repair it with our blue state laws.
Let's see which works better: redism or blueism. Betting on this would be like taking candy from babies.
Reminds one of "We had to destroy the village to save it,".
Social Security has been in the sites of the Republicans ever since it was adopted. It was one of their most cherished goals to destroy it, but now it has the added attraction of all that money to hand to their band of thieves. And apparently the present day elderly won't turn them out of office before they destroy it.
The constant line that it's doomed to go down the tubes that we've been hearing for the past twenty years is just the PR side of a sixty year effort.
Hope everyone has an extra room, if not for your parent for yourself in your final years. Make sure the kids sign a contract that says you can live there.
Tena - the only other book of hers I have read is the "Wild Seed." Mr. QuiltLady is the fantasy and science fiction fiend in the house, and he insisted I read her. I read mainly non-fiction these days, which is scary enough.
Reminds one of "We had to destroy the village to save it,".
Social Security has been in the sites of the Republicans ever since it was adopted. It was one of their most cherished goals to destroy it, but now it has the added attraction of all that money to hand to their band of thieves. And apparently the present day elderly won't turn them out of office before they destroy it.
The constant line that it's doomed to go down the tubes that we've been hearing for the past twenty years is just the PR side of a sixty year effort.
Hope everyone has an extra room, if not for your parent for yourself in your final years. Make sure the kids sign a contract that says you can live there.
Tena - the only other book of hers I have read is the "Wild Seed." Mr. QuiltLady is the fantasy and science fiction fiend in the house, and he insisted I read her. I read mainly non-fiction these days, which is scary enough.
upyernoz | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 2:10 pm
If someone has already mentioned this, i apologize:
Doncha think by that time it'll be a just a leeetle bit too late???
upyernoz | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 2:10 pm
If someone has already mentioned this, i apologize:
Doncha think by that time it'll be a just a leeetle bit too late???
Yep, I expect this to be a rerun of the Medicare perscription drug benefit. Phony numbers and dishonest salesmanship, a big payoff to Rethug campaign contributors, and the shaft for the rest of us.
Sadly, I think they just might get away with it. I have otherwise intelligent friends who have attained years of discretion, renounce W, all his works and all his ways, and yet have bought into the spin that Social Security is going to shrivel up and blow away in the near future.
And i suspect a number of folks just starting out in the workforce are hoping to write a hit toon, be the next Bill Gates, win the lottery, or strike it rich in some other somewhat unlikely way, so they'll never need Social Security anyway. The hope of striking it rich is deeply American, and not restricted to twenty-somethings, and that is what the Rethugs will play on.
Yep, I expect this to be a rerun of the Medicare perscription drug benefit. Phony numbers and dishonest salesmanship, a big payoff to Rethug campaign contributors, and the shaft for the rest of us.
Sadly, I think they just might get away with it. I have otherwise intelligent friends who have attained years of discretion, renounce W, all his works and all his ways, and yet have bought into the spin that Social Security is going to shrivel up and blow away in the near future.
And i suspect a number of folks just starting out in the workforce are hoping to write a hit toon, be the next Bill Gates, win the lottery, or strike it rich in some other somewhat unlikely way, so they'll never need Social Security anyway. The hope of striking it rich is deeply American, and not restricted to twenty-somethings, and that is what the Rethugs will play on.
QuiltLady - true enough about non-fiction. I'm still traumatized by Song of the Dodo and it's been 6 years since I read it. (It's about biodiversity and extinctions. Short synopsis - we're losing biodiversity and extinctions are speeding up.)
Lilith's Brood is a fantastic trilogy - I really love Butler.
QuiltLady - true enough about non-fiction. I'm still traumatized by Song of the Dodo and it's been 6 years since I read it. (It's about biodiversity and extinctions. Short synopsis - we're losing biodiversity and extinctions are speeding up.)
Lilith's Brood is a fantastic trilogy - I really love Butler.
Quasi off-topic
We are looking for a new broker. One that doesn't have telephone operators in India. Any recommendations?
Quasi off-topic
We are looking for a new broker. One that doesn't have telephone operators in India. Any recommendations?
A 40 year Republican attack on public education has given us an electorate easily manipulated by marketing techniques. If Bush needs to raise taxes, he'll call them "revenue enhancements", as Reagan did, and 51% of the people will go back to drinking their kool aid.
A 40 year Republican attack on public education has given us an electorate easily manipulated by marketing techniques. If Bush needs to raise taxes, he'll call them "revenue enhancements", as Reagan did, and 51% of the people will go back to drinking their kool aid.
We should also point out that the fundi churches don't pay taxes but are getting pots of tax money from Bush for "faith-based" programs. And he is arranging it so that there is no oversight on this money so they can easily spend it on themselves for air-conditioned dog houses. This should enrage people because fundis have a long history of mis-appropriation of funds. Remember PTL. Now imagine many PTL's playing with YOUR tax dollars.
sekmet
It's all part of their master plan, when a struggling family in a neighborhood can't make ends meat the "church" steps in to help. Making the family greatful for the church. (not biting the hand that feeds it)
We should also point out that the fundi churches don't pay taxes but are getting pots of tax money from Bush for "faith-based" programs. And he is arranging it so that there is no oversight on this money so they can easily spend it on themselves for air-conditioned dog houses. This should enrage people because fundis have a long history of mis-appropriation of funds. Remember PTL. Now imagine many PTL's playing with YOUR tax dollars.
sekmet
It's all part of their master plan, when a struggling family in a neighborhood can't make ends meat the "church" steps in to help. Making the family greatful for the church. (not biting the hand that feeds it)
Wile E. Odysseus - It's right in line with the rest of the Bush national agenda - destroy a village to save a village; destroy a forest to save the trees, etc., etc., etc.
Wile E. Odysseus - It's right in line with the rest of the Bush national agenda - destroy a village to save a village; destroy a forest to save the trees, etc., etc., etc.
Let's see which works better: redism or blueism
I've seen this idea before here at Eschaton.
Don't buy it.
I think, if the blue states really prospered and the red states really went broke aftger such a split, the red states would simply invade and conquer the blue states to loot them. They'd take a diiferent, more PNAC page from the mess in Iraq.
There is a sense in which the whole is more than the sum of the parts.
Or, as Daniel Webster put it (I think in his 'Reply to Hane'):
"Liberty and union, one and inseparable, now and forever."
Let's see which works better: redism or blueism
I've seen this idea before here at Eschaton.
Don't buy it.
I think, if the blue states really prospered and the red states really went broke aftger such a split, the red states would simply invade and conquer the blue states to loot them. They'd take a diiferent, more PNAC page from the mess in Iraq.
There is a sense in which the whole is more than the sum of the parts.
Or, as Daniel Webster put it (I think in his 'Reply to Hane'):
"Liberty and union, one and inseparable, now and forever."
I have never understood just who is clamoring for a change in social security.
that's simple; even if you couldn't guess "stock brokers and investment banks," ask the old Ciceronian question: Cui bono? Who profits?
And since it doesn't take more than passing knowledge of the financial provinciality and lack of sophistication of the average Murkin--to say nothing of having too little time in their already frenzied lives for attending to any such a protfolio in any meqaningful way--to answer, "Well, it won't be the people whose money it is," you can fill in the blanks...
I have never understood just who is clamoring for a change in social security.
that's simple; even if you couldn't guess "stock brokers and investment banks," ask the old Ciceronian question: Cui bono? Who profits?
And since it doesn't take more than passing knowledge of the financial provinciality and lack of sophistication of the average Murkin--to say nothing of having too little time in their already frenzied lives for attending to any such a protfolio in any meqaningful way--to answer, "Well, it won't be the people whose money it is," you can fill in the blanks...
Tena,
You've got that right. This follows "Healthy Forests," "No Child Left Behind," and all the other Bushie initiatives to undo the positive advances of the last seventy to a hundred years.
What's next? "Voluntary" compliance to the Pure Food and Drug Act?
Tena,
You've got that right. This follows "Healthy Forests," "No Child Left Behind," and all the other Bushie initiatives to undo the positive advances of the last seventy to a hundred years.
What's next? "Voluntary" compliance to the Pure Food and Drug Act?
Doncha think by that time it'll be a just a leeetle bit too late???
yeah, it will. but hey, we'll be able to say "i told you so" it may not feed the starving elderly, but it will give us some satisfaction
Doncha think by that time it'll be a just a leeetle bit too late???
yeah, it will. but hey, we'll be able to say "i told you so" it may not feed the starving elderly, but it will give us some satisfaction
In a country where a lot of VCRs are still blinking "12:00," I fear for the financial outlook for the retirement of very many people under any sort of privatization scheme.
It's all well and good for those who follow the market closely to do this sort of thing, but a lot of folks who don't have the time, energy, inclination, or training are going to lose their shirts, or else get taken to the cleaners by conmen, as others have pointed out already.
In a country where a lot of VCRs are still blinking "12:00," I fear for the financial outlook for the retirement of very many people under any sort of privatization scheme.
It's all well and good for those who follow the market closely to do this sort of thing, but a lot of folks who don't have the time, energy, inclination, or training are going to lose their shirts, or else get taken to the cleaners by conmen, as others have pointed out already.
"the saddest thing is that even the christian right is being used.
Actually, that's the funniest thing, not the saddest."
Damn straight - they fucking deserve it!
"the saddest thing is that even the christian right is being used.
Actually, that's the funniest thing, not the saddest."
Damn straight - they fucking deserve it!
Wile E. Odysseus I don't propose a split, just that the Senators and Congressmen from the NorthEast and West Coasts serve the interests of their consituents. If the Republicans had to pay their own way they would sing a different tune. No money from the "blue" states should go to a "red" state without the fact being noted and something coming back in an equal exchange.
I'm sick and tired of on-the-dole ranchers and oilmen complaining about Head Start and WIC. There is no segment of the population who gets more from the federal government than the rich conservative Republicans.
Wile E. Odysseus I don't propose a split, just that the Senators and Congressmen from the NorthEast and West Coasts serve the interests of their consituents. If the Republicans had to pay their own way they would sing a different tune. No money from the "blue" states should go to a "red" state without the fact being noted and something coming back in an equal exchange.
I'm sick and tired of on-the-dole ranchers and oilmen complaining about Head Start and WIC. There is no segment of the population who gets more from the federal government than the rich conservative Republicans.
Tena or QuiltLady,
What's the title of this Octavia Butler book with the future as Bu$hco envisions it (corporate serfs, gated communities, no public services)? I'd like to add it to my collection of dystopias, along with 1984, Brave New World, and so forth.
Haven't read much Octavia Butler. I used to read a lot of SF (mostly Golden Age authors like Asimov, Heinlein, and so forth), but not so much recently.
Tena or QuiltLady,
What's the title of this Octavia Butler book with the future as Bu$hco envisions it (corporate serfs, gated communities, no public services)? I'd like to add it to my collection of dystopias, along with 1984, Brave New World, and so forth.
Haven't read much Octavia Butler. I used to read a lot of SF (mostly Golden Age authors like Asimov, Heinlein, and so forth), but not so much recently.
I'm sick and tired of on-the-dole ranchers and oilmen complaining about Head Start and WIC. There is no segment of the population who gets more from the federal government than the rich conservative Republicans.
Amen.
I'm sick and tired of on-the-dole ranchers and oilmen complaining about Head Start and WIC. There is no segment of the population who gets more from the federal government than the rich conservative Republicans.
Amen.
George W Bush WILL raise taxes at some point in the next 4 years - if not we will have a dollar with the value of toilet paper.
Yes he will. And if he doesn't get Iraq stable in the next six months, watch for the GOP congress to dump him and make deals with the Dems for veto proof legislation.
George W Bush WILL raise taxes at some point in the next 4 years - if not we will have a dollar with the value of toilet paper.
Yes he will. And if he doesn't get Iraq stable in the next six months, watch for the GOP congress to dump him and make deals with the Dems for veto proof legislation.
im gonna look for that octavia butler book too.
im gonna look for that octavia butler book too.
collection of dystopias
Add almost anything by Sheri Tepper, who's almost as good as Octavia Butler.
Won't this all create a "bubble" effect: those who are currently invested will run up prices before the big bonanza, then cash in?
No, here's what's likely to happen. There will be a moratorium that will allow withdrawls of 401ks tax free if you join the SS privitization program.
Good for those who have 401k's. Good for the economy, Takes care of many personal debt problems. Gets folks to accept privitized SS. Good for the financial investment firms.
collection of dystopias
Add almost anything by Sheri Tepper, who's almost as good as Octavia Butler.
Won't this all create a "bubble" effect: those who are currently invested will run up prices before the big bonanza, then cash in?
No, here's what's likely to happen. There will be a moratorium that will allow withdrawls of 401ks tax free if you join the SS privitization program.
Good for those who have 401k's. Good for the economy, Takes care of many personal debt problems. Gets folks to accept privitized SS. Good for the financial investment firms.
EPT,
I was reacting not just to your post, but also to the folks talking about some kind of actual split. Sorry if i was painting with too broad a brush.
If I thought such a split in government expenditures would work, I might be for it. But, as this shows, I don't think the Rethugs would let you get away with shutting down the corporate welfare and government handouts.
(Shorter "this:" Rethug majority in the House of Representatives will only bring forward bills that "a majority of the majority" favor, not a majority of the Reprresentatives. Result: Folks with Dem Congressmen and Congresswomen are disenfranchised.)
EPT,
I was reacting not just to your post, but also to the folks talking about some kind of actual split. Sorry if i was painting with too broad a brush.
If I thought such a split in government expenditures would work, I might be for it. But, as this shows, I don't think the Rethugs would let you get away with shutting down the corporate welfare and government handouts.
(Shorter "this:" Rethug majority in the House of Representatives will only bring forward bills that "a majority of the majority" favor, not a majority of the Reprresentatives. Result: Folks with Dem Congressmen and Congresswomen are disenfranchised.)
It's all well and good for those who follow the market closely to do this sort of thing,
Actually, even they aren't likely to do too well. Most rating firms are still very much in bed w/ the companies they rate. Thus, even if you have time, ability, and desire to follow the market, you can't know that you're not following Enron, as certifed by Arthur Anderson and rated by various rating companies, right over the cliff. Lots of "smart" people lost money on Enron.
It's all well and good for those who follow the market closely to do this sort of thing,
Actually, even they aren't likely to do too well. Most rating firms are still very much in bed w/ the companies they rate. Thus, even if you have time, ability, and desire to follow the market, you can't know that you're not following Enron, as certifed by Arthur Anderson and rated by various rating companies, right over the cliff. Lots of "smart" people lost money on Enron.
Tena - I googled it and I believe it is the "Parable of the Sower." If not, all you hungry readers will have to wait for Mr. QuiltLady to wake up.
BTW - while I liked the two books of hers that I read,I found that she started really strong, then just kind of hurried up and finished, leaving loose ends and almost a contrived ending. But the first two-thirds more than made up for it.
Tena - I googled it and I believe it is the "Parable of the Sower." If not, all you hungry readers will have to wait for Mr. QuiltLady to wake up.
BTW - while I liked the two books of hers that I read,I found that she started really strong, then just kind of hurried up and finished, leaving loose ends and almost a contrived ending. But the first two-thirds more than made up for it.
I have always enjoyed the Shrubbery's earnest effort to save something which doesn't need their assistance - and in which they do not participate. (Yeah, I'm trying real hard to remember, but I sure can't think of any occasion on which Shrub, the old man or Babbsy-poo would ever have contributed to Social Security. I can think of a lot of ways in which they've defrauded the system, but contribute? Doubt it. Maybe Missy Laura did back in the day, but I doubt she earned enough quarters to participate.)
I have always enjoyed the Shrubbery's earnest effort to save something which doesn't need their assistance - and in which they do not participate. (Yeah, I'm trying real hard to remember, but I sure can't think of any occasion on which Shrub, the old man or Babbsy-poo would ever have contributed to Social Security. I can think of a lot of ways in which they've defrauded the system, but contribute? Doubt it. Maybe Missy Laura did back in the day, but I doubt she earned enough quarters to participate.)
Social Security is not just for retirement. What about widows/widowers receiving benefits when their husbands/wives die early and unexpectedly and they need help raising the kids? What about the worker who becomes disabled from a workplace accident and can't receive SSI?
Social Security is not just for retirement. What about widows/widowers receiving benefits when their husbands/wives die early and unexpectedly and they need help raising the kids? What about the worker who becomes disabled from a workplace accident and can't receive SSI?
Konopelli--
Thanks for that insight. I was off on some tangent thinking that the administration was actually responding to some groundswell of malcontents who were just sick and tired of social security taxes. The truth is so much more disheartening. Just a bunch of rich folks who can never have enough, grabbing for more from the wage-earners. And as GWPDA points out-- a scheme by people who don't even contribute to the system.
My only consolation is the hope that this administration through its hubris is planting the seeds of its own crashing demise.
Konopelli--
Thanks for that insight. I was off on some tangent thinking that the administration was actually responding to some groundswell of malcontents who were just sick and tired of social security taxes. The truth is so much more disheartening. Just a bunch of rich folks who can never have enough, grabbing for more from the wage-earners. And as GWPDA points out-- a scheme by people who don't even contribute to the system.
My only consolation is the hope that this administration through its hubris is planting the seeds of its own crashing demise.
QuiltLady, I love Octavia Butler!!
QuiltLady, I love Octavia Butler!!
I'm not worried. As long as supermarkets have dumpsters, I have a retirement plan....
I'm not worried. As long as supermarkets have dumpsters, I have a retirement plan....
Well, maybe it's just one small piece of satisfying irony, but it does me a world of good to think about it.
Walmart, the die-hard supporters of BushCo, is greatly lowering its forecast for holiday season sales. Why? Well it looks like those vessels of moral values, the red state mob who voted Republican because the Bible told them so, aren't really doing terrifically well economically under the Bush administration. It may seem wonderful to them and the Republicans that they chose values over their own economic interests, but don't you think that the Walmart executives might have a different point of view? Amusingly, it's the stores who cater to the spoiled rich who are doing wonderfully well this administration. If you're surprised by this, you seriously need to get out more.
So what's Walmart's real problem? That it's just too fucking dumb to know its own real interests.
But isn't that true of the red state mob everywhere you go?
Well, maybe it's just one small piece of satisfying irony, but it does me a world of good to think about it.
Walmart, the die-hard supporters of BushCo, is greatly lowering its forecast for holiday season sales. Why? Well it looks like those vessels of moral values, the red state mob who voted Republican because the Bible told them so, aren't really doing terrifically well economically under the Bush administration. It may seem wonderful to them and the Republicans that they chose values over their own economic interests, but don't you think that the Walmart executives might have a different point of view? Amusingly, it's the stores who cater to the spoiled rich who are doing wonderfully well this administration. If you're surprised by this, you seriously need to get out more.
So what's Walmart's real problem? That it's just too fucking dumb to know its own real interests.
But isn't that true of the red state mob everywhere you go?
I meant, in my previous post,
Amusingly, it's the stores who cater to the spoiled rich who are doing wonderfully well this holiday season
I meant, in my previous post,
Amusingly, it's the stores who cater to the spoiled rich who are doing wonderfully well this holiday season
frankly0,
Don't tell Mike; he's sure that a rising tide lifts all ships.
frankly0,
Don't tell Mike; he's sure that a rising tide lifts all ships.
Tena, I'm going to go find that Butler trilogy. It's here...somwhere. I don't read SF much anymore, but I sure remember thinking how imaginative that woman was. Before I read her books, I didn't know of any African-American SF writers.
Tena, I'm going to go find that Butler trilogy. It's here...somwhere. I don't read SF much anymore, but I sure remember thinking how imaginative that woman was. Before I read her books, I didn't know of any African-American SF writers.
I think that much of the electorate, back when Reagan was in the White House and everyone more or less assumed that the federal deficit would continue to grow exponentially, tacitly resigned themselves to the idea that there just plain wasn't going to be a social security pension around for them when they got there.
God knows I don't ever expect to be able to retire.
This is where things like the Clenis become important. There is a large mass of the post-Watergate generation that just assumes that (a) the POTUS is going to lie to them, and (b) the CIA is going to do pretty much whatever the fuck it wants, regardless of who's in power. Every time a president lies, regardless of what he's lying about, that impression is reinforced.
These people know that the eventual correspondence of policy with campaign promises is pretty much a crapshoot, and so they go with the gut feeling about who's most likely to write them one-time tax refund checks that they can use for retail therapy.
I think that much of the electorate, back when Reagan was in the White House and everyone more or less assumed that the federal deficit would continue to grow exponentially, tacitly resigned themselves to the idea that there just plain wasn't going to be a social security pension around for them when they got there.
God knows I don't ever expect to be able to retire.
This is where things like the Clenis become important. There is a large mass of the post-Watergate generation that just assumes that (a) the POTUS is going to lie to them, and (b) the CIA is going to do pretty much whatever the fuck it wants, regardless of who's in power. Every time a president lies, regardless of what he's lying about, that impression is reinforced.
These people know that the eventual correspondence of policy with campaign promises is pretty much a crapshoot, and so they go with the gut feeling about who's most likely to write them one-time tax refund checks that they can use for retail therapy.
pinelakelarry - sorry - I got caught up in the thread above and didn't get back here.
Lilith's Brood is different than Sower's Parable. It is a more complete work. I agree with QuiltLady about some of Butler's things - strong start, no real finish. I didn't find that so with Lilith's Brood. It's just fascinating on a lot of levels and different than anything else I've read.
pinelakelarry - sorry - I got caught up in the thread above and didn't get back here.
Lilith's Brood is different than Sower's Parable. It is a more complete work. I agree with QuiltLady about some of Butler's things - strong start, no real finish. I didn't find that so with Lilith's Brood. It's just fascinating on a lot of levels and different than anything else I've read.
So what's Walmart's real problem? That it's just too fucking dumb to know its own real interests.
But, but, didn't I hear everyone saying yesterday it as gonna be a banner year. One asswipe even said now that the election is settled, people can concentrate on fun things instead of the direction of the country.
Boy, that was a fast turn around
So what's Walmart's real problem? That it's just too fucking dumb to know its own real interests.
But, but, didn't I hear everyone saying yesterday it as gonna be a banner year. One asswipe even said now that the election is settled, people can concentrate on fun things instead of the direction of the country.
Boy, that was a fast turn around
Rexroth's Daughter?
Really? He's one of my all-time faves of that generation: Memoirs of a Pious Pornographer....
There is a certain cadre of gen-x and gen-y upper-class wannabes who are anxious about their investment in the future...they are loud, and in positions of power, but they aren;t likely gonna be effected by it much, anyway, if they meet their bond sales goals, and all that shit...
Rexroth's Daughter?
Really? He's one of my all-time faves of that generation: Memoirs of a Pious Pornographer....
There is a certain cadre of gen-x and gen-y upper-class wannabes who are anxious about their investment in the future...they are loud, and in positions of power, but they aren;t likely gonna be effected by it much, anyway, if they meet their bond sales goals, and all that shit...
Tena, and Butler's a lesbian. Did you know that? Score one for our side. Sorry, I know you're not lesbian, just read that somewhere here
Tena, and Butler's a lesbian. Did you know that? Score one for our side. Sorry, I know you're not lesbian, just read that somewhere here
I'm so confused by all this. Can't we make fun of Al Gore's doggy pills now? It's just so easy and fun.
I'm so confused by all this. Can't we make fun of Al Gore's doggy pills now? It's just so easy and fun.
Konopelli-
Not really. I love that generation of poets too. But the name comes from a song called Rexroth's Daughter by Greg Brown. He's a good folk guitarist and a wonderful lyricist.
Konopelli-
Not really. I love that generation of poets too. But the name comes from a song called Rexroth's Daughter by Greg Brown. He's a good folk guitarist and a wonderful lyricist.
Can't we make fun of Al Gore's doggy pills now? It's just so easy and fun.
Don't worry, you can get right back to that when you get on the TV. This is just for the pointy head bloggers, who know how to type.
Can't we make fun of Al Gore's doggy pills now? It's just so easy and fun.
Don't worry, you can get right back to that when you get on the TV. This is just for the pointy head bloggers, who know how to type.
"I'm honestly curious if we will be able to put this sacred "savings account" money into foreign investments. I would bet you anything, they will not let you do that." Stinky Feet
I had the same idea. You're right though, they'll have a clause to eliminate this choice.
"I'm honestly curious if we will be able to put this sacred "savings account" money into foreign investments. I would bet you anything, they will not let you do that." Stinky Feet
I had the same idea. You're right though, they'll have a clause to eliminate this choice.
im accidentlaly listening to NPR & the topic is (i quote) "ATHEISM: THE DENIAL OF GOD"
talk about negative framing!!!!!
i dont know who the guests are, but they are in agreement "atheism is a road to nowhere!!!'
n69n
I'm a real Nowhere Man, Sitting in a Nowhere Land, making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody...
im accidentlaly listening to NPR & the topic is (i quote) "ATHEISM: THE DENIAL OF GOD"
talk about negative framing!!!!!
i dont know who the guests are, but they are in agreement "atheism is a road to nowhere!!!'
n69n
I'm a real Nowhere Man, Sitting in a Nowhere Land, making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody...
...And JFK will take a strong alternative leadership position, just as he's doing right now.
...And JFK will take a strong alternative leadership position, just as he's doing right now.
Beware the beast, Neotheocon -- a power-hungry paradox, a Big Government Conservative. An unsettling admixture of corporatism and theocracy, he will feed on the debts of our children to fund tax breaks for the rich, yachts for the president, and social controls on our families. He will demand a bizarro-world Soviet society, where religion is inculcated and conglomerated capitalism is freed. Shun him, for he is the harbinger of fascism.
Beware the beast, Neotheocon -- a power-hungry paradox, a Big Government Conservative. An unsettling admixture of corporatism and theocracy, he will feed on the debts of our children to fund tax breaks for the rich, yachts for the president, and social controls on our families. He will demand a bizarro-world Soviet society, where religion is inculcated and conglomerated capitalism is freed. Shun him, for he is the harbinger of fascism.
Dawna - re: your MYTH #2, I'd like to know how you think the money in the social security trust fund is "earning a return"?
Dawna - re: your MYTH #2, I'd like to know how you think the money in the social security trust fund is "earning a return"?
Dawna - re: your MYTH #2, I'd like to know how you think the money in the social security trust fund is "earning a return"?
agentalbert
According to the 2003 report of the Social Security system's Board of Trustees, in 2018, just 14 years from now, the Social Security system will begin to run a deficit. That is, it will begin to spend more on benefits than it brings in through taxes.
Currently it is taking in more money than it spends.
Dawna - re: your MYTH #2, I'd like to know how you think the money in the social security trust fund is "earning a return"?
agentalbert
According to the 2003 report of the Social Security system's Board of Trustees, in 2018, just 14 years from now, the Social Security system will begin to run a deficit. That is, it will begin to spend more on benefits than it brings in through taxes.
Currently it is taking in more money than it spends.
Meanwhile, US companies are surrendering their pension plans so that the federally sponsored Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation can take over.
Testimony of Bradley D. Belt, Executive Director, Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation Before the
Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation United States Senate
October 7, 2004
Considerable attention has been—and must be—paid to the PBGC's financial position. The Corporation's single-employer insurance fund had a record deficit at the end of the 2003 fiscal year of $11.2 billion, and we will be reporting a significantly increased deficit for the 2004 fiscal year. As you know, United Airlines has said publicly that it will not make any further contributions to its pension plans during bankruptcy and that it "likely" will have to terminate them. Those plans are now underfunded by an estimated $8.3 billion on a termination basis, $6.4 billion of which is guaranteed by the PBGC.
(It should be noted, however, that under current law the PBGC does not have the full faith and credit backing of the U.S. government.)
At what point does PBGC go belly up requiring a bail out by congress?
Why does this absolutely reek of the SN&L scandal?
Meanwhile, US companies are surrendering their pension plans so that the federally sponsored Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation can take over.
Testimony of Bradley D. Belt, Executive Director, Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation Before the
Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation United States Senate
October 7, 2004
Considerable attention has been—and must be—paid to the PBGC's financial position. The Corporation's single-employer insurance fund had a record deficit at the end of the 2003 fiscal year of $11.2 billion, and we will be reporting a significantly increased deficit for the 2004 fiscal year. As you know, United Airlines has said publicly that it will not make any further contributions to its pension plans during bankruptcy and that it "likely" will have to terminate them. Those plans are now underfunded by an estimated $8.3 billion on a termination basis, $6.4 billion of which is guaranteed by the PBGC.
(It should be noted, however, that under current law the PBGC does not have the full faith and credit backing of the U.S. government.)
At what point does PBGC go belly up requiring a bail out by congress?
Why does this absolutely reek of the SN&L scandal?
I'm a little confused about the conspiracy involved here. Will SS privatisation be mandatory? Will individuals be able to blow all their SS money in bad investments or will only a small percentage be privatised? Do something like 60% of all of us own stocks now? Do historic returns in stocks dwarf returns in the SS Trust Fund? Do current workers' contributions to the fund go directly to beneficiaries? If so, is that sustainable?
I'm a little confused about the conspiracy involved here. Will SS privatisation be mandatory? Will individuals be able to blow all their SS money in bad investments or will only a small percentage be privatised? Do something like 60% of all of us own stocks now? Do historic returns in stocks dwarf returns in the SS Trust Fund? Do current workers' contributions to the fund go directly to beneficiaries? If so, is that sustainable?
Couple of things.
Hecate, how can you ignore Ursula Leguin? Just as with Sherri Tepper, no story of Leguin's has ever been a disappointment.
Pine Lake Larry: "and Butler's a lesbian." To you this matters?
Rexroth's Daughter: "the hope that this administration through its hubris is planting the seeds of its own crashing demise" Which seems now to be the only hope in town. But till then, how many more deaths will be counted while that hubris works out its destiny?
Couple of things.
Hecate, how can you ignore Ursula Leguin? Just as with Sherri Tepper, no story of Leguin's has ever been a disappointment.
Pine Lake Larry: "and Butler's a lesbian." To you this matters?
Rexroth's Daughter: "the hope that this administration through its hubris is planting the seeds of its own crashing demise" Which seems now to be the only hope in town. But till then, how many more deaths will be counted while that hubris works out its destiny?
Rexroth's Daughter: "the hope that this administration through its hubris is planting the seeds of its own crashing demise" Which seems now to be the only hope in town. But till then, how many more deaths will be counted while that hubris works out its destiny?
Oisin |
OY!!
Rexroth's Daughter: "the hope that this administration through its hubris is planting the seeds of its own crashing demise" Which seems now to be the only hope in town. But till then, how many more deaths will be counted while that hubris works out its destiny?
Oisin |
OY!!
Snarkey,
Read the link in my homepage url.
We are not headed for a little mild inflation. Think of needing a wheel barrow of cash to buy bread inflation.
The US is bankrupt.
Snarkey,
Read the link in my homepage url.
We are not headed for a little mild inflation. Think of needing a wheel barrow of cash to buy bread inflation.
The US is bankrupt.
Pine Lake Larry: "and Butler's a lesbian." To you this matters?
Oisin, it doesn't matter. I was just playing with Tena because someone accused her earlier of being gay. It was just a joke. But thanks for the reference to Tepper and Leguin. I'll check them out.
Pine Lake Larry: "and Butler's a lesbian." To you this matters?
Oisin, it doesn't matter. I was just playing with Tena because someone accused her earlier of being gay. It was just a joke. But thanks for the reference to Tepper and Leguin. I'll check them out.
"I'm a little confused about the conspiracy involved here. Will SS privatisation be mandatory?"
What's going on here is a calculated end to Social Security. The answer to all your questions is "Whatever will end Social Security."
This is the final phase of an attack on the New Deal that began about half a century ago. This is the handiwork of people that look on FDR as some sort of incubus, and all his social programs -- or anyone's for that matter -- as something fundamentally immoral and un-American.
That is not an exaggeration. That is not a simplification. We are going to be dragged backwards to a time when the most predatory of business practices held sway. The same small minority who benefitted then will benefit in the future. The majority who did not benefit then will not benefit in the future.
And when that system collapses -- as it did in 1929, and several times before then -- there will be no way to correct it. The "beast" is starved, you see, courtesy of record deficits. There will be no money for anything but more wars. Somehow, they always find money for that.
"I'm a little confused about the conspiracy involved here. Will SS privatisation be mandatory?"
What's going on here is a calculated end to Social Security. The answer to all your questions is "Whatever will end Social Security."
This is the final phase of an attack on the New Deal that began about half a century ago. This is the handiwork of people that look on FDR as some sort of incubus, and all his social programs -- or anyone's for that matter -- as something fundamentally immoral and un-American.
That is not an exaggeration. That is not a simplification. We are going to be dragged backwards to a time when the most predatory of business practices held sway. The same small minority who benefitted then will benefit in the future. The majority who did not benefit then will not benefit in the future.
And when that system collapses -- as it did in 1929, and several times before then -- there will be no way to correct it. The "beast" is starved, you see, courtesy of record deficits. There will be no money for anything but more wars. Somehow, they always find money for that.
"And when that system collapses -- as it did in 1929.."
Gee, I didn't know we had Social Security in 1929> Do tell!
"And when that system collapses -- as it did in 1929.."
Gee, I didn't know we had Social Security in 1929> Do tell!
Larry, I believe Roddy was referring to the system of robber barons, bankers, et al who did very well compared to the general population prior to 1929 because the game was rigged in the robber barons' favor, and the common folk could drop dead for all they cared. Dare I hope that you've heard of the Depression? Hunger, no jobs, drought in the midwest, etc. etc.? Social Security was a way of ameliorating the lot of a group of our weaker citizens, so that they wouldn't starve in the streets.
Larry, I believe Roddy was referring to the system of robber barons, bankers, et al who did very well compared to the general population prior to 1929 because the game was rigged in the robber barons' favor, and the common folk could drop dead for all they cared. Dare I hope that you've heard of the Depression? Hunger, no jobs, drought in the midwest, etc. etc.? Social Security was a way of ameliorating the lot of a group of our weaker citizens, so that they wouldn't starve in the streets.
Igotyermandate, I was indeed referring to the economic system that pre-dated Social Security.
Larry, here in that curious land called "Reality" we use a thing called "language" which employs something called "antecedents." You might want to pay attention to such things in the future.
Igotyermandate, I was indeed referring to the economic system that pre-dated Social Security.
Larry, here in that curious land called "Reality" we use a thing called "language" which employs something called "antecedents." You might want to pay attention to such things in the future.
The extent to which water problems have inundated once abundantly watered regions is indicated by a 19 percent jump in water consumption over the past 10 years, the Times reports, by Washington, D.C., and its adjacent Maryland and Virginia suburbs. "On a peak day last summer, the [region's] three utilities sucked 583 million gallons from the Potomac [River], about 85 percent of its volume at the time, and reduced the flow to near its legal minimum of 100 million gallons a day
by David Stauffer
The extent to which water problems have inundated once abundantly watered regions is indicated by a 19 percent jump in water consumption over the past 10 years, the Times reports, by Washington, D.C., and its adjacent Maryland and Virginia suburbs. "On a peak day last summer, the [region's] three utilities sucked 583 million gallons from the Potomac [River], about 85 percent of its volume at the time, and reduced the flow to near its legal minimum of 100 million gallons a day
by David Stauffer
oops wrong thread, appoligies to all.
oops wrong thread, appoligies to all.
So what's Walmart's real problem? That it's just too fucking dumb to know its own real interests.
It seems to me that is the real problem of EVERY Bush supporter, rich or poor, at least when it comes to the longterm. Using Enron-type shell games as a model to run the government is ultimately going to lead to financial disaster for everyone when the sham eventually collapses in on itself, which it most certainly will sooner or later.
So what's Walmart's real problem? That it's just too fucking dumb to know its own real interests.
It seems to me that is the real problem of EVERY Bush supporter, rich or poor, at least when it comes to the longterm. Using Enron-type shell games as a model to run the government is ultimately going to lead to financial disaster for everyone when the sham eventually collapses in on itself, which it most certainly will sooner or later.
And George W. Bush has just the person with whom you must trust your life savings:
Neal "Silverado" Bush.
And George W. Bush has just the person with whom you must trust your life savings:
Neal "Silverado" Bush.
IGOTYERMANDATE, Roddy's post refers to New Deal programs. Were those in effect in 1929, too? No one has seen fit to answer any of my several questions directly. Each bears on the subject of this thread, in contrast to any reference about 1929, robber barons, etc. I respectfully submit that Social security had no effect on feeding the poor during the depression, excepting the elderly and disabled.
IGOTYERMANDATE, Roddy's post refers to New Deal programs. Were those in effect in 1929, too? No one has seen fit to answer any of my several questions directly. Each bears on the subject of this thread, in contrast to any reference about 1929, robber barons, etc. I respectfully submit that Social security had no effect on feeding the poor during the depression, excepting the elderly and disabled.
I teach finance. It's a disgusting subject these days, but somebody has to do it, right? Anyway, this whole idea of private social security accounts is such bullshit. What everyone is not saying is what happens if the market crashes and all your money in the mutual funds you invested your social security money in goes down the tubes?? You've got zilch. Social security as it is now isn't much, but at least it held up to its' name: IT WAS SECURE.
Jesus. Doesn't everyone see this is just another way of siphoning off money to public companies?
Oh well. On to my third martini.
I teach finance. It's a disgusting subject these days, but somebody has to do it, right? Anyway, this whole idea of private social security accounts is such bullshit. What everyone is not saying is what happens if the market crashes and all your money in the mutual funds you invested your social security money in goes down the tubes?? You've got zilch. Social security as it is now isn't much, but at least it held up to its' name: IT WAS SECURE.
Jesus. Doesn't everyone see this is just another way of siphoning off money to public companies?
Oh well. On to my third martini.
Social Security did not exist during the Depression. None of the New Deal programs did; the New Deal came *after* the Great Depression. The Depression began with the stock market crash in 1929; banks collapsed (and there was no FDIC then); people held their cash; unemployment hit (iirc) 25% in 1934 (and there was no unemployment insurance then). FDR was elected in 1932 and pushed through the New Deal. Look it up on the Web. It's my opinion that the New Deal and the GI Bill together are what made the vast American middle class we know today possible.
And the Republicans want to dismantle the New Deal!
I just re-read The Last Hurrah, a wonderful book. In that book, the mayor, the old-style pol, is defeated in his last run for re-election. One of nephew's friends, a smart fellow who's interested in politics, says that one of the things that beat the old man was something that happened decades ago, and that was Roosevelt. It just took this long to catch up with him. The New Deal meant that people didn't have to depend on the old-style political boss for their safety net anymore; it all came from Washington.
So back to our world, not the novel's: When the R's get done dismantling the New Deal, does that mean a new era of political bosses?
Social Security did not exist during the Depression. None of the New Deal programs did; the New Deal came *after* the Great Depression. The Depression began with the stock market crash in 1929; banks collapsed (and there was no FDIC then); people held their cash; unemployment hit (iirc) 25% in 1934 (and there was no unemployment insurance then). FDR was elected in 1932 and pushed through the New Deal. Look it up on the Web. It's my opinion that the New Deal and the GI Bill together are what made the vast American middle class we know today possible.
And the Republicans want to dismantle the New Deal!
I just re-read The Last Hurrah, a wonderful book. In that book, the mayor, the old-style pol, is defeated in his last run for re-election. One of nephew's friends, a smart fellow who's interested in politics, says that one of the things that beat the old man was something that happened decades ago, and that was Roosevelt. It just took this long to catch up with him. The New Deal meant that people didn't have to depend on the old-style political boss for their safety net anymore; it all came from Washington.
So back to our world, not the novel's: When the R's get done dismantling the New Deal, does that mean a new era of political bosses?
Now that you've seen through his Evil Plan, Lord of the Flies will force you to join his forces of the undead, the GOP.
Yes, raising future taxes to avoid raising current taxes makes sense only to a politician, who figures he's out of office by the time the future tax bill comes due, plus interest.
And only Americans would fall for that kind of nonsense.
Now that you've seen through his Evil Plan, Lord of the Flies will force you to join his forces of the undead, the GOP.
Yes, raising future taxes to avoid raising current taxes makes sense only to a politician, who figures he's out of office by the time the future tax bill comes due, plus interest.
And only Americans would fall for that kind of nonsense.
Actually a very encouraging thread, apparently more people than I thought have figured out that the Social Security "Crisis" is a sham.
But in direct response to AgentAlbert
"Dawna - re: your MYTH #2, I'd like to know how you think the money in the social security trust fund is "earning a return"?"
Maybe because it is invested in interest bearing bonds with real maturity rates?
Maybe because the trust fund was credited with $85 billion in interest in 2003?
List of bonds here:
OASI:Old Age/Survivors and here:
DI:Disability
Operations of the Trust Funds here (interest is column 4):
Table IV.A3.--Operations of the Combined OASI and DI Trust Fund
Actually a very encouraging thread, apparently more people than I thought have figured out that the Social Security "Crisis" is a sham.
But in direct response to AgentAlbert
"Dawna - re: your MYTH #2, I'd like to know how you think the money in the social security trust fund is "earning a return"?"
Maybe because it is invested in interest bearing bonds with real maturity rates?
Maybe because the trust fund was credited with $85 billion in interest in 2003?
List of bonds here:
OASI:Old Age/Survivors and here:
DI:Disability
Operations of the Trust Funds here (interest is column 4):
Table IV.A3.--Operations of the Combined OASI and DI Trust Fund
or perhaps those bonds have 'maturity Dates', either way they are as real as your dollars in the bank (there is not a shoebox with your money sitting in it).
or perhaps those bonds have 'maturity Dates', either way they are as real as your dollars in the bank (there is not a shoebox with your money sitting in it).
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