I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
War has become a video game. No one really gets hurt.
War has become a video game. No one really gets hurt.
Tom is right and so are you, Thumb. I hate to go off on this in a way because I know video games are loved. But I've been extremely alarmed by the ads I've seen for them in the last year.
Tom is right and so are you, Thumb. I hate to go off on this in a way because I know video games are loved. But I've been extremely alarmed by the ads I've seen for them in the last year.
There's a reason for that.
There's a reason for that.
The German Nazis took away the possibility of personalizing war and death. They created a distance between them and the enemy with long range weapons.
That, in effect, helped support the myth of the strong, never-waiver, aryan, because they never had to actually confront that myth. Until the end.
We are in that mode. Although our soldiers are now faced with personal warfare like we've never seen before. But the public is numb.
The German Nazis took away the possibility of personalizing war and death. They created a distance between them and the enemy with long range weapons.
That, in effect, helped support the myth of the strong, never-waiver, aryan, because they never had to actually confront that myth. Until the end.
We are in that mode. Although our soldiers are now faced with personal warfare like we've never seen before. But the public is numb.
I'm in love with a video game character, which is sad, pathetic, and completely understandable.
I'm in love with a video game character, which is sad, pathetic, and completely understandable.
I don't believe in censorship by the government. But I've got to wonder what parents are thinking w/ some of the video games they let their kids play. When my son was growing up, I didn't let him watch hardly any tv (at that time, video games consisted of pac man and you had to go to the pizza parlor to play them). It was more work for me, but that's what you sign up for when you have kids. I just don't get why parents buy or allow their kids to play today's violent video games.
End of cranky old lady rant.
I don't believe in censorship by the government. But I've got to wonder what parents are thinking w/ some of the video games they let their kids play. When my son was growing up, I didn't let him watch hardly any tv (at that time, video games consisted of pac man and you had to go to the pizza parlor to play them). It was more work for me, but that's what you sign up for when you have kids. I just don't get why parents buy or allow their kids to play today's violent video games.
End of cranky old lady rant.
Seeing as the army already uses video games as promotional tools already, its not too surprising.
Seeing as the army already uses video games as promotional tools already, its not too surprising.
There is no blurring of the lines here -
http://www.americasarmy.com/
Video game and recruitment tool all in one!
There is no blurring of the lines here -
http://www.americasarmy.com/
Video game and recruitment tool all in one!
Welcome to Ender's Game (separate the story from the author). What motivation does the U.S. Army have for making and distributing America's Army video game? The more war can be marketed as a video game the more abstract the death and horror can be. In Rumsfeld's military, once you're in the armed forces and stuck in theater it doesn't matter what happens to you. He thinks of soldiers as resources to be used up, like any bad CEO treats people.
Welcome to Ender's Game (separate the story from the author). What motivation does the U.S. Army have for making and distributing America's Army video game? The more war can be marketed as a video game the more abstract the death and horror can be. In Rumsfeld's military, once you're in the armed forces and stuck in theater it doesn't matter what happens to you. He thinks of soldiers as resources to be used up, like any bad CEO treats people.
I've recently told my fifteen year old son that the vid games he so loves are defacto setting him up for the military.
It took awhile for him to believe it; he had to talk it up among his gamer friends at school.
Now, he believes it, and is starting to pay attention to current events and history.
'Still plays the games, though.
I've recently told my fifteen year old son that the vid games he so loves are defacto setting him up for the military.
It took awhile for him to believe it; he had to talk it up among his gamer friends at school.
Now, he believes it, and is starting to pay attention to current events and history.
'Still plays the games, though.
This isn't unusual...marketers figure that there's going to be a draft, or at least a lot of military action coming up, so they're gearing themselves for the market.
But we've always had a thing for miltary toys and games, anyway...I still remember my old GI Joe doll with the footlocker and all...
Have A Nice, Hot Cup O' Joe!
This isn't unusual...marketers figure that there's going to be a draft, or at least a lot of military action coming up, so they're gearing themselves for the market.
But we've always had a thing for miltary toys and games, anyway...I still remember my old GI Joe doll with the footlocker and all...
Have A Nice, Hot Cup O' Joe!
Never underestimate the power of bread and circuses.
Never underestimate the power of bread and circuses.
The Sims is the only game where you can kill someone by trapping them between strategically placed toilets.
The Sims is the only game where you can kill someone by trapping them between strategically placed toilets.
I remember a Marines ad a few years ago that looked like a video game set in Middle Earth. It had dragons, flaming swords, the whole nine. A bit unnerving to think of the type of person who would submit to the will of the Commander in Chief (in our case, Sauron) based on such imagery.
I remember a Marines ad a few years ago that looked like a video game set in Middle Earth. It had dragons, flaming swords, the whole nine. A bit unnerving to think of the type of person who would submit to the will of the Commander in Chief (in our case, Sauron) based on such imagery.
My son was never into the violent games; still isn't.
He was never into the war toys when he was little, either. Transformers and Power Rangers, yeah, but the GI Joe-type BS, nope!
He also doesn't believe that the Iraqi people have horns and tails.
I've done my job!
My son was never into the violent games; still isn't.
He was never into the war toys when he was little, either. Transformers and Power Rangers, yeah, but the GI Joe-type BS, nope!
He also doesn't believe that the Iraqi people have horns and tails.
I've done my job!
Hell the military develops these games. One in particular is Full Spectrum Warrior.
It's a gamed developed to teach groups about urban warefare. Out-flank, out-flank.
The game was then released to the public.
Hell the military develops these games. One in particular is Full Spectrum Warrior.
It's a gamed developed to teach groups about urban warefare. Out-flank, out-flank.
The game was then released to the public.
Sorry, I don't buy it. The vast majority of popular games, militaristic or no, come from Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
(It's like saying that playing your typical Playstation Final Fantasy leads to wearing clothing with too many zippers.)
Sorry, I don't buy it. The vast majority of popular games, militaristic or no, come from Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
(It's like saying that playing your typical Playstation Final Fantasy leads to wearing clothing with too many zippers.)
Never underestimate the power of bread and circuses.
Do you mean fast food and video games?
Never underestimate the power of bread and circuses.
Do you mean fast food and video games?
gonzo - At least your son, who is still playing the games, is doing so with open eyes. Good for you.
If they can be played with a clear understanding of what they are about, then that's certainly far better than just playing for the thrill with not thought to what might really be going on.
That could potentially turn such games into a tool for those of us who are against militarization and the glorification of violence. But that means lots of work on the part of parents, many of whom will never see it the way we do.
I don't know - like Hecate, I'm not a fan of censorship. It's just that providing a frame of reference for kids who play these games is almost impossible without parents who get it and who care.
gonzo - At least your son, who is still playing the games, is doing so with open eyes. Good for you.
If they can be played with a clear understanding of what they are about, then that's certainly far better than just playing for the thrill with not thought to what might really be going on.
That could potentially turn such games into a tool for those of us who are against militarization and the glorification of violence. But that means lots of work on the part of parents, many of whom will never see it the way we do.
I don't know - like Hecate, I'm not a fan of censorship. It's just that providing a frame of reference for kids who play these games is almost impossible without parents who get it and who care.
Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
Besides the recent suggestions to change the Japanese constitution to allow an army, there is a rather nationalistic and nasty segment of Japanese society, e.g., represented by Mishima Yukio.
Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
Besides the recent suggestions to change the Japanese constitution to allow an army, there is a rather nationalistic and nasty segment of Japanese society, e.g., represented by Mishima Yukio.
Check this game out. It's rather realistic and gives you chills if you're not a gamer.
http://www.fullspectrumwarrior.c...r.com/
index.php
Check this game out. It's rather realistic and gives you chills if you're not a gamer.
http://www.fullspectrumwarrior.c...r.com/
index.php
I just don't get why parents buy or allow their kids to play today's violent video games.
Hecate:
Bravo! I agree 100%.
I've always said the same about these little 9-year-old girls who try to dress like TWITney Spears.
All their parents need to say is: "No, I'm not buying you those kind of clothes!"
But, hey, according to Cal Thomas, it's all of the fault of us promiscuous Baby Boomers.
What an asshole!
I just don't get why parents buy or allow their kids to play today's violent video games.
Hecate:
Bravo! I agree 100%.
I've always said the same about these little 9-year-old girls who try to dress like TWITney Spears.
All their parents need to say is: "No, I'm not buying you those kind of clothes!"
But, hey, according to Cal Thomas, it's all of the fault of us promiscuous Baby Boomers.
What an asshole!
I'd rather play games than have sex, you know why? During sex, you have to please TWO people or more. Games last more than 10 minutes, and in a game, if you're not doing well, someone just goes "fgt" or something or you just go "my current PC sucks" or "it's an off day". In real life, you have some chick (in my case) that goes "Are you a faggot? That sucked"
You can't blame a bad orgasm on lag.
You can't.
I'd rather play games than have sex, you know why? During sex, you have to please TWO people or more. Games last more than 10 minutes, and in a game, if you're not doing well, someone just goes "fgt" or something or you just go "my current PC sucks" or "it's an off day". In real life, you have some chick (in my case) that goes "Are you a faggot? That sucked"
You can't blame a bad orgasm on lag.
You can't.
I've always had a basic question about video games.
Now, I'm a carpenter by trade, so I'm used to building things, not destroying them.
Why are almost all games based on destroying something, usually "enemies"?
It seems to me that the technology could just as easily create games where things were built instead of destroyed.
Much basic construction stuff could be readily imparted. Kids would get a more useful sense of three dimensional space.
There is a genre of games loosely refered to as "legend" games. These are mostly exploration, teamwork and problem solving. They seem to be more popular with girls, but not exclusively so.
It seems to me that this "legend" technology could be used to "visit" foreign cities and landscapes that ACTUALLY EXIST.
Oh well. He and a friend are playing a rousing round of "Halo-2" right now.
I've always had a basic question about video games.
Now, I'm a carpenter by trade, so I'm used to building things, not destroying them.
Why are almost all games based on destroying something, usually "enemies"?
It seems to me that the technology could just as easily create games where things were built instead of destroyed.
Much basic construction stuff could be readily imparted. Kids would get a more useful sense of three dimensional space.
There is a genre of games loosely refered to as "legend" games. These are mostly exploration, teamwork and problem solving. They seem to be more popular with girls, but not exclusively so.
It seems to me that this "legend" technology could be used to "visit" foreign cities and landscapes that ACTUALLY EXIST.
Oh well. He and a friend are playing a rousing round of "Halo-2" right now.
Its not video games fault that its a lot of fun to kill people.
Its not video games fault that its a lot of fun to kill people.
The vast majority of popular games, militaristic or no, come from Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
Excuse me? Japan has historically had a very militaristic streak. And even if that weren't true, they're making what sells. And what sells, because it's what parents buy, is killing. As gross, mysogynistic, and ugly as possible.
The vast majority of popular games, militaristic or no, come from Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
Excuse me? Japan has historically had a very militaristic streak. And even if that weren't true, they're making what sells. And what sells, because it's what parents buy, is killing. As gross, mysogynistic, and ugly as possible.
Afew years ago, saw a movie bouut a bunch of kids who played video games, one was so good that a space ship came by and picked him up to fight some sort fo cruel invader.
As usual, Hollywood had great foresight. I think that in a not to far future, people (read kids) that are great at video gaming, wether point and shoot or piloting aircrafts, or other types of military paraphenalia, WILL be contacted if not outright DRAFTEd by Nationnal armed forces .
Just look at how fast the "pilotless drones" are getting developped by Boeing, same for boats ant tanks. All remotely piloted by gamers 100 ed of miles away.
So I would expect, in a near future (it could be now actually) that some of those games contain codes that potentially could trace back the "elite" players and bring them to uncle Sam.
Sound's far fetched, think again.
Afew years ago, saw a movie bouut a bunch of kids who played video games, one was so good that a space ship came by and picked him up to fight some sort fo cruel invader.
As usual, Hollywood had great foresight. I think that in a not to far future, people (read kids) that are great at video gaming, wether point and shoot or piloting aircrafts, or other types of military paraphenalia, WILL be contacted if not outright DRAFTEd by Nationnal armed forces .
Just look at how fast the "pilotless drones" are getting developped by Boeing, same for boats ant tanks. All remotely piloted by gamers 100 ed of miles away.
So I would expect, in a near future (it could be now actually) that some of those games contain codes that potentially could trace back the "elite" players and bring them to uncle Sam.
Sound's far fetched, think again.
Terry C - Yeah, excellent point. I always wanted my own toy six shooter with which to play cowgirl. My mom was adamant in her refusal.
I never got one. I felt deprived for all of about 2 years, and only when we were playing cowgirls. The rest of the time I totally forgot about it.
And that was just about the only thing I asked for that I didn't get, frankly.
It must be much harder for parents now, however. With adults clamoring for their right to own assault weapons, how can we expect kids to have any sense?
Terry C - Yeah, excellent point. I always wanted my own toy six shooter with which to play cowgirl. My mom was adamant in her refusal.
I never got one. I felt deprived for all of about 2 years, and only when we were playing cowgirls. The rest of the time I totally forgot about it.
And that was just about the only thing I asked for that I didn't get, frankly.
It must be much harder for parents now, however. With adults clamoring for their right to own assault weapons, how can we expect kids to have any sense?
AMERICA'S ARMY
Defend freedom.
Online.
With some 13 year olds.
AMERICA'S ARMY
Defend freedom.
Online.
With some 13 year olds.
Sorry, I don't buy it. The vast majority of popular games, militaristic or no, come from Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
But the majority of military-themed games are developed in America, especially the ones made for computers (a market still dominated by domestic developers), which includes most first-person shooters.
Sorry, I don't buy it. The vast majority of popular games, militaristic or no, come from Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
But the majority of military-themed games are developed in America, especially the ones made for computers (a market still dominated by domestic developers), which includes most first-person shooters.
Except the ones for Army recruitment are warm and fuzzy and absolutely reek of family values.... 'Mamacita! It will be a good thing for me to kill!' Yeah.
Except the ones for Army recruitment are warm and fuzzy and absolutely reek of family values.... 'Mamacita! It will be a good thing for me to kill!' Yeah.
arm-chair warriors, football fanantics and video-game lovers are what have made the bush presidency and the iraq war possible.
deny all you want.
arm-chair warriors, football fanantics and video-game lovers are what have made the bush presidency and the iraq war possible.
deny all you want.
No video games here, my daughter is 15 and still can't watch TV during the school week (her TV is not hooked to the dish), she spends her time drawing and reading fantasy books. She has a more vivid imagination than most of her peers and can draw whatever they want. Some of the things they want she cannot draw in school with out me being called in...
As for the military games, my husband is a former Marine (retired LtCol) who never saw combat. He can't stand any of those games since they remind him too much of the drills he had to do when he was the commander of a unit in Utah.
Oh and GI Joes, when my daughter played with dolls, she always had the Barbies tie up the Joes and do bad things to them (one scene involved the toy alligators and dinosaurs. Dunno where she gets that from....
No video games here, my daughter is 15 and still can't watch TV during the school week (her TV is not hooked to the dish), she spends her time drawing and reading fantasy books. She has a more vivid imagination than most of her peers and can draw whatever they want. Some of the things they want she cannot draw in school with out me being called in...
As for the military games, my husband is a former Marine (retired LtCol) who never saw combat. He can't stand any of those games since they remind him too much of the drills he had to do when he was the commander of a unit in Utah.
Oh and GI Joes, when my daughter played with dolls, she always had the Barbies tie up the Joes and do bad things to them (one scene involved the toy alligators and dinosaurs. Dunno where she gets that from....
gonzo,
There are some constructive video games. The various incarnations of SimCity (SimEarth, SimAnt, The Sims); as well as the Civilization line. But they don't have the same market power as the various killing games, although I'm rather partial to them.
gonzo,
There are some constructive video games. The various incarnations of SimCity (SimEarth, SimAnt, The Sims); as well as the Civilization line. But they don't have the same market power as the various killing games, although I'm rather partial to them.
When all you've got is a penis, everything looks like an anus.
- Japanese proverb
When all you've got is a penis, everything looks like an anus.
- Japanese proverb
Japan hasn't been the center for U.S. videogame design for awhile now. The most popular American console is the XBOX, whose games are mostly designed in the U.S. The growing disconnect between the tastes of Asian and American gamers has been the theme of a spate of recent articles.
The most Japanese console is the Nintendo Gamecube, which has the smallest market penetration of any of the big three consoles. Likewise, the XBOX is the least popular console in Japan, selling behind the obsolete Playstation One.
A quick look at the list of current bestselling games doesn't include a single Japanese title. The bestselling Metal Gear line of games has a title out now that is deeply underperforming past sales in the series.
Full Spectrum Warrior, Counterstrike, SWAT, Ghost Recon, SOCOM Navy Seals and the other popular shooter wargames are American made. In fact, the popular Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six lines of games come from a studio owned by Tom Clancy.
Japan hasn't been the center for U.S. videogame design for awhile now. The most popular American console is the XBOX, whose games are mostly designed in the U.S. The growing disconnect between the tastes of Asian and American gamers has been the theme of a spate of recent articles.
The most Japanese console is the Nintendo Gamecube, which has the smallest market penetration of any of the big three consoles. Likewise, the XBOX is the least popular console in Japan, selling behind the obsolete Playstation One.
A quick look at the list of current bestselling games doesn't include a single Japanese title. The bestselling Metal Gear line of games has a title out now that is deeply underperforming past sales in the series.
Full Spectrum Warrior, Counterstrike, SWAT, Ghost Recon, SOCOM Navy Seals and the other popular shooter wargames are American made. In fact, the popular Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six lines of games come from a studio owned by Tom Clancy.
Conspiracy!
Conspiracy!
Time to air my pet peeve: "hi Mom" videos from soldiers that run on every local news show between thanksgiving and xmas.
As far as I can tell, this all started during the first Gulf War. But somehow it has become a permanent fixture. Originally, it was soldiers in Iraq who could not communicate with their families in the US. But now, these little "news wrappers" aren't just from soldiers in war zones, many of them are from soldiers in cushy luxury postings like Okinawa, Germany, and most incredibly, I've even seen messages from soldiers INSIDE the US. Can't they just phone home on their own nickel? I want an end to the military occupation of my TV set.
Time to air my pet peeve: "hi Mom" videos from soldiers that run on every local news show between thanksgiving and xmas.
As far as I can tell, this all started during the first Gulf War. But somehow it has become a permanent fixture. Originally, it was soldiers in Iraq who could not communicate with their families in the US. But now, these little "news wrappers" aren't just from soldiers in war zones, many of them are from soldiers in cushy luxury postings like Okinawa, Germany, and most incredibly, I've even seen messages from soldiers INSIDE the US. Can't they just phone home on their own nickel? I want an end to the military occupation of my TV set.
Guilty Biographical note:
I spent practically the whole year after I finished the ph.d. ('88-89) playing video games, mostly share-ware: Prince of Persia, Castle Wolfenstein, and some game mario-brothers clone with a little boy space hero, Billy Kean? I forget.
What did I learn?
Well, the games themselves began to remind me of the Farmer's Riverworld series, and how you could 'die' without any particular consequences.
But, the first thing is: Programmers rule, they are inexorably Pavlovian, and they do it with adrenalin...
The games are basically undergraduate seminars in conditioned response...where the player is the rat in the maze, and the programmer is really programming the player...
Then: That the games teach you what they want you to learn. This is rhetorically labelled as skills needed to play. But the deep truth is that the games teach their devotees embedded meanings and occulted principles which are anything but evident without pretty intense reflection (and access to some decent weed; but of course that part's true anytime)...
probably these are trivial observations; truisms to the cogniscenti; banal repetitions of acknowledged fact.
if so, humblest apologies...(i haven't seen this discussed much, either in academic or popular literature)...and since that year, i haven't played any more games, and have no desire more either...
Guilty Biographical note:
I spent practically the whole year after I finished the ph.d. ('88-89) playing video games, mostly share-ware: Prince of Persia, Castle Wolfenstein, and some game mario-brothers clone with a little boy space hero, Billy Kean? I forget.
What did I learn?
Well, the games themselves began to remind me of the Farmer's Riverworld series, and how you could 'die' without any particular consequences.
But, the first thing is: Programmers rule, they are inexorably Pavlovian, and they do it with adrenalin...
The games are basically undergraduate seminars in conditioned response...where the player is the rat in the maze, and the programmer is really programming the player...
Then: That the games teach you what they want you to learn. This is rhetorically labelled as skills needed to play. But the deep truth is that the games teach their devotees embedded meanings and occulted principles which are anything but evident without pretty intense reflection (and access to some decent weed; but of course that part's true anytime)...
probably these are trivial observations; truisms to the cogniscenti; banal repetitions of acknowledged fact.
if so, humblest apologies...(i haven't seen this discussed much, either in academic or popular literature)...and since that year, i haven't played any more games, and have no desire more either...
GWPD - There sure are a lot of hispanic kids fighting this war. I don't think I drove through one small town in New Mexico that didn't have flags and signs out in support of the local kids who were fighting.
From what I read and hear, it almost feels as if the majority of the National Guard are from hispanic or very rural caucasian kids from the Carolinas and the rest of the south, including Texas.
That has to be a misperception on my part, to one extent or another. But the fact that those two parts of the country are contributing most heavily to the military is something maybe Rove counted on and we didn't and should have.
GWPD - There sure are a lot of hispanic kids fighting this war. I don't think I drove through one small town in New Mexico that didn't have flags and signs out in support of the local kids who were fighting.
From what I read and hear, it almost feels as if the majority of the National Guard are from hispanic or very rural caucasian kids from the Carolinas and the rest of the south, including Texas.
That has to be a misperception on my part, to one extent or another. But the fact that those two parts of the country are contributing most heavily to the military is something maybe Rove counted on and we didn't and should have.
About the games, they're games people. There is no reality to them beyond perhaps some basic strategy. When they develop holo decks like Star Trek then you might have a point. As far as the commercials, they pander to whatever seems to sell in popular society at the time. Showing true, everyday reality in basic, specialty training and unit life would drastically reduce recruitment. Try to imagine what a Walmart recruitment ad would look like.
About the games, they're games people. There is no reality to them beyond perhaps some basic strategy. When they develop holo decks like Star Trek then you might have a point. As far as the commercials, they pander to whatever seems to sell in popular society at the time. Showing true, everyday reality in basic, specialty training and unit life would drastically reduce recruitment. Try to imagine what a Walmart recruitment ad would look like.
Great blog you have here, keep up the good work.
Regards
Ed Keay-Smith
AdWords Marketing, The Google AdWords Pay-Per-Click Campaign Management Specialists.
Great blog you have here, keep up the good work.
Regards
Ed Keay-Smith
AdWords Marketing, The Google AdWords Pay-Per-Click Campaign Management Specialists.
I dont know the difference between games and reality anymore. I just used a shotgun on my mother and she's not respawning.
Anybody but me notice the soldiers who have seen action all have big circles under their eyes and look haunted? I'm thinking going door-to-door, never knowing what is waiting for you in he next room, and probably killing people you have no particular beef against is not nearly as much fun as playing the video game. These guys are going to need a lot of help in the coming years.
Hecate - I'll never forget taking my five-year old to the video store and trying to choose between "Pirates of Penzance" and "Pinocchio." A schoolmate came in with his dad, and they chose "Rambo." Incredible.
I dont know the difference between games and reality anymore. I just used a shotgun on my mother and she's not respawning.
Anybody but me notice the soldiers who have seen action all have big circles under their eyes and look haunted? I'm thinking going door-to-door, never knowing what is waiting for you in he next room, and probably killing people you have no particular beef against is not nearly as much fun as playing the video game. These guys are going to need a lot of help in the coming years.
Hecate - I'll never forget taking my five-year old to the video store and trying to choose between "Pirates of Penzance" and "Pinocchio." A schoolmate came in with his dad, and they chose "Rambo." Incredible.
konopelli - Actually, I found your comment utterly fascinating. I have a confession: I've never played a video game. I see the ads and they blow back my hair with the reality of the graphics now.
I'd like to play one at least once before I die. But since I haven't, I can't talk about them really. I love hearing from someone who knows what they are talking about.
konopelli - Actually, I found your comment utterly fascinating. I have a confession: I've never played a video game. I see the ads and they blow back my hair with the reality of the graphics now.
I'd like to play one at least once before I die. But since I haven't, I can't talk about them really. I love hearing from someone who knows what they are talking about.
What's interesting to me is the circularity of it all. I probably won't explain what I mean very well, but we've got corporations and the military in bed together selling these games to young people to get them hooked on killing and on the notion that, bloody and messy as it can be, death doesn't "really" hurt anybody. And, it makes the kids inot good little consumers; they need the t-shirts and the posters and, of course, the new game when the old one becomes, as planned, obsolete. And the companies make money off of this, of course.
Then, either due to a terrible economy or a draft, the military, acting to preserve corporate profits, especially, right now, in terms of oil, steps in and consumes these kids as fodder units in the war that it turns around and tries to sell to America as some form of reality-tv video game. Which generates new consumers of the video games.
There's such a weird element of people participating in their own destruction built into the whole thing. It's too Orwellian, by half. And all based on a weird form of self-induced and increasingly-toxic testosterone poisoning, it seems to me.
What's interesting to me is the circularity of it all. I probably won't explain what I mean very well, but we've got corporations and the military in bed together selling these games to young people to get them hooked on killing and on the notion that, bloody and messy as it can be, death doesn't "really" hurt anybody. And, it makes the kids inot good little consumers; they need the t-shirts and the posters and, of course, the new game when the old one becomes, as planned, obsolete. And the companies make money off of this, of course.
Then, either due to a terrible economy or a draft, the military, acting to preserve corporate profits, especially, right now, in terms of oil, steps in and consumes these kids as fodder units in the war that it turns around and tries to sell to America as some form of reality-tv video game. Which generates new consumers of the video games.
There's such a weird element of people participating in their own destruction built into the whole thing. It's too Orwellian, by half. And all based on a weird form of self-induced and increasingly-toxic testosterone poisoning, it seems to me.
Tena - that's why those horrible ads are running - they're as targetted and focussed as anything designed by BBD&O ever was.
(And Konopelli & NMR and all the New Mexicans - hard freeze here in Phoenix to-morrow night, predicted to re-occur thruout the week, dropping to the 20s. Get out your old sheets and get ready....)
Tena - that's why those horrible ads are running - they're as targetted and focussed as anything designed by BBD&O ever was.
(And Konopelli & NMR and all the New Mexicans - hard freeze here in Phoenix to-morrow night, predicted to re-occur thruout the week, dropping to the 20s. Get out your old sheets and get ready....)
Sorry, I don't buy it. The vast majority of popular games, militaristic or no, come from Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
The danger of one-sided thinking is that CW rules the roost. Here the CW is blame Bush, everything is attached to the military, America is Eff'd up.
Example: I see many comments like "we should not be in Iraq" on one thread, followed by "the dollar in sinking cuz of debt" in another. However no correlation is really made between the two events other than to call Bush names that are rather below the belt.
The real reason for Iraq, was that Hussien was getting ready to open up his oil exports and price them against the Euro. That would have had disaterous effects to the dollar, especially had Opec followed suit.
Bush made two mistakes. One was not telling the American people the real reason for Iraq, and two, believing Rumsfeld about required troop strength.
The reason the dollar is sliding against world currency is not because of the US debt, but because world investors are nervous that Iraq is spinning out of control, and hence, oil production could be shut down, which would be a world wide catastrophe.
So Bush must fix two things quickly.
One, he needs to find a way to stablize Iraq. The only way forward is a massive troop deployment, which means either allies pitch in or we have a draft.
Two, oil production out of Iraq needs to be ramped to maximum, with the markets pricing it against the dollar, and war costs paid for through sales.
Sorry for the reality check, but that's the way it is.
Sorry, I don't buy it. The vast majority of popular games, militaristic or no, come from Japan, which is widely known for being anything but militaristic.
The danger of one-sided thinking is that CW rules the roost. Here the CW is blame Bush, everything is attached to the military, America is Eff'd up.
Example: I see many comments like "we should not be in Iraq" on one thread, followed by "the dollar in sinking cuz of debt" in another. However no correlation is really made between the two events other than to call Bush names that are rather below the belt.
The real reason for Iraq, was that Hussien was getting ready to open up his oil exports and price them against the Euro. That would have had disaterous effects to the dollar, especially had Opec followed suit.
Bush made two mistakes. One was not telling the American people the real reason for Iraq, and two, believing Rumsfeld about required troop strength.
The reason the dollar is sliding against world currency is not because of the US debt, but because world investors are nervous that Iraq is spinning out of control, and hence, oil production could be shut down, which would be a world wide catastrophe.
So Bush must fix two things quickly.
One, he needs to find a way to stablize Iraq. The only way forward is a massive troop deployment, which means either allies pitch in or we have a draft.
Two, oil production out of Iraq needs to be ramped to maximum, with the markets pricing it against the dollar, and war costs paid for through sales.
Sorry for the reality check, but that's the way it is.
Video games are now making us nerds do things we would never do in other situations: Dance (DDR), Play an instrument (Samba de Amigo), and now, GO OUTSIDE. Pretty soon we'll be like normal people.
Video games are now making us nerds do things we would never do in other situations: Dance (DDR), Play an instrument (Samba de Amigo), and now, GO OUTSIDE. Pretty soon we'll be like normal people.
GWPDA | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 3:12 pm
You should top 7 million soon. Great site...I am a dilettante in my obsessions as in everything else, and the Great War is one of my dilettantish obsessions...what was the novel a couple years agoi, "Birdsong"? about sappers and tunnel rats along the Somme...you dont want to think aobut it but you also can't forget...war is like that
GWPDA | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 3:12 pm
You should top 7 million soon. Great site...I am a dilettante in my obsessions as in everything else, and the Great War is one of my dilettantish obsessions...what was the novel a couple years agoi, "Birdsong"? about sappers and tunnel rats along the Somme...you dont want to think aobut it but you also can't forget...war is like that
QuiltLady - I have noticed the dark circles. It is breaking my heart. We know they have the Air Force on drugs for real - I'm wondering about the rest of them. How much sleep are any of them getting? And I know it isn't necessarily drugs making them look that way - just the unbearable strain.
God, it's terrible to see - all of it is just terrible. I can't understand anyone who sees pictures from Iraq and and does not think: Oh my god.
QuiltLady - I have noticed the dark circles. It is breaking my heart. We know they have the Air Force on drugs for real - I'm wondering about the rest of them. How much sleep are any of them getting? And I know it isn't necessarily drugs making them look that way - just the unbearable strain.
God, it's terrible to see - all of it is just terrible. I can't understand anyone who sees pictures from Iraq and and does not think: Oh my god.
Cartoonish and fantasy violence is often perceived (incorrectly) by parents and public policy makers as safe even for children. However, experimental studies with college students have consistently found increased aggression after exposure to clearly unrealistic and fantasy violent video games. Indeed, at least one recent study found significant increases in aggression by college students after playing E-rated (suitable for everyone) violent video games.
Cartoonish and fantasy violence is often perceived (incorrectly) by parents and public policy makers as safe even for children. However, experimental studies with college students have consistently found increased aggression after exposure to clearly unrealistic and fantasy violent video games. Indeed, at least one recent study found significant increases in aggression by college students after playing E-rated (suitable for everyone) violent video games.
When I get rich and famous, I will promote games that hold the ideals of creativity and gameplay over mindless violence.
Then I will go bankrupt.
When I get rich and famous, I will promote games that hold the ideals of creativity and gameplay over mindless violence.
Then I will go bankrupt.
Konopelli, thank you - I was just noticing that this morning. Two million hits in ten months is pretty aggressive for that kind of site - gee, I can't think why. Actually, I was reconfirming my decision a couple years back to ensure that the site had no connexion whatsoever with any institution at all (well, other than being an Arizona not-for-profit - send me money! I'll send you a receipt!).
Konopelli, thank you - I was just noticing that this morning. Two million hits in ten months is pretty aggressive for that kind of site - gee, I can't think why. Actually, I was reconfirming my decision a couple years back to ensure that the site had no connexion whatsoever with any institution at all (well, other than being an Arizona not-for-profit - send me money! I'll send you a receipt!).
The Government War Machine is planning it that way...
http://www.wired.com/news/
techno...2,65403,00.html
The Government War Machine is planning it that way...
http://www.wired.com/news/
techno...2,65403,00.html
Speaking of getting hurt, back when we were shocking and awing Iraq in March of 2003, a Repub co-worker told me that no one was getting hurt/killed by the bombing. He actually believed that. I guess he figured those bombs were smart and they would differentiate whether it was living or not before smashing it to smithereens? I haven't the heart to ask him, now, how many have been killed/hurt, because he would just spew out the party line.
Speaking of getting hurt, back when we were shocking and awing Iraq in March of 2003, a Repub co-worker told me that no one was getting hurt/killed by the bombing. He actually believed that. I guess he figured those bombs were smart and they would differentiate whether it was living or not before smashing it to smithereens? I haven't the heart to ask him, now, how many have been killed/hurt, because he would just spew out the party line.
The only effect that videogames have had on my morals is deciding what weapon I would kill someone with if I did.
The only effect that videogames have had on my morals is deciding what weapon I would kill someone with if I did.
Hecate - I hate to say it, because it has become such a cliche - but damn, Eisenhower looks better to me every day. He fucking warned us this could happen.
Goddamn I wish we'd paid attention.
Hecate - I hate to say it, because it has become such a cliche - but damn, Eisenhower looks better to me every day. He fucking warned us this could happen.
Goddamn I wish we'd paid attention.
I spent my childhood roaming around the semi-wooded areas near the suburb where my family lived. On a good day, I'd probably wander three or four miles from home, sometimes alone, sometimes with a buddy or two.
These days a lot of parents are so afraid of letting their kids wander that they put up with whatever videogame or other indoor activity keeps Johnny inside and away from imaginary predators.
I spent my childhood roaming around the semi-wooded areas near the suburb where my family lived. On a good day, I'd probably wander three or four miles from home, sometimes alone, sometimes with a buddy or two.
These days a lot of parents are so afraid of letting their kids wander that they put up with whatever videogame or other indoor activity keeps Johnny inside and away from imaginary predators.
It takes a certain amount of social ignorance to continue to believe that "video games are for kids" on any level.
To anyone who thinks videogames shouldn't be as violent as, say, movies: grow up. The Xbox is not responsible for babysitting your child, and it should not have to strive for pastel colors and Disney characters just because you can't make the connection between "rated R" and "rated M".
It takes a certain amount of social ignorance to continue to believe that "video games are for kids" on any level.
To anyone who thinks videogames shouldn't be as violent as, say, movies: grow up. The Xbox is not responsible for babysitting your child, and it should not have to strive for pastel colors and Disney characters just because you can't make the connection between "rated R" and "rated M".
"Is it just me or has it become difficult to distinguish between commercials for kids' video games and those for military recruitment?"
I don't know. . . Right now that "Finest Hour" game is getting a lot of air time. . . While the two mega-hit games, the ultra-futuristic sci-fi Halo 2, and the incredibly anti-authoritarian Half-Life 2 (that game actually asking you to shoot you're way out of "1984" with all the emotional relevance that implies) go under the radar for you adults because they're so popular they don't need ads.
"Is it just me or has it become difficult to distinguish between commercials for kids' video games and those for military recruitment?"
I don't know. . . Right now that "Finest Hour" game is getting a lot of air time. . . While the two mega-hit games, the ultra-futuristic sci-fi Halo 2, and the incredibly anti-authoritarian Half-Life 2 (that game actually asking you to shoot you're way out of "1984" with all the emotional relevance that implies) go under the radar for you adults because they're so popular they don't need ads.
Eisenhower...fucking warned us this could happen....Tena...3:34pm
By then it had already happened, unfortuately. By 1960 the national security state was already firmly established...the Dulles brothers saw to that, with some help...Ike in fact had presided over it, approved most of it. Imho, his warning, which seems so prescient now, was really no more than a confession, an effort to let himself off the hook, a gesture toward history...
Eisenhower...fucking warned us this could happen....Tena...3:34pm
By then it had already happened, unfortuately. By 1960 the national security state was already firmly established...the Dulles brothers saw to that, with some help...Ike in fact had presided over it, approved most of it. Imho, his warning, which seems so prescient now, was really no more than a confession, an effort to let himself off the hook, a gesture toward history...
These days a lot of parents are so afraid of letting their kids wander that they put up with whatever videogame or other indoor activity keeps Johnny inside and away from imaginary predators.
modus potus
Tell that to all those parents who's kids have been kidnapped and killed. I am not saying these games are any kind of substitution, but you can't ignore there are predators. Are you willing to risk your kid. I am not.
These days a lot of parents are so afraid of letting their kids wander that they put up with whatever videogame or other indoor activity keeps Johnny inside and away from imaginary predators.
modus potus
Tell that to all those parents who's kids have been kidnapped and killed. I am not saying these games are any kind of substitution, but you can't ignore there are predators. Are you willing to risk your kid. I am not.
oldwhitelady - I've about decided that most people think that probably maybe 6 Iraqi children have been hurt so far, and 3 of them have been brought here and fixed.
No shit, the way the newspapers carry on whenever an Iraqi kid missing limbs or a face is brought over here, you'd think that: 1. there are no other kids in Iraq similarly situated, and 2. we're really doing them a favor all the way round. The fact that we caused the injury in the first place is ever so carefully danced around. It's all about how wonderful we are for bringing this kid over here and fixing him or her.
oldwhitelady - I've about decided that most people think that probably maybe 6 Iraqi children have been hurt so far, and 3 of them have been brought here and fixed.
No shit, the way the newspapers carry on whenever an Iraqi kid missing limbs or a face is brought over here, you'd think that: 1. there are no other kids in Iraq similarly situated, and 2. we're really doing them a favor all the way round. The fact that we caused the injury in the first place is ever so carefully danced around. It's all about how wonderful we are for bringing this kid over here and fixing him or her.
modus,
My childhood was like yours and I agree it's more difficult for parents today. But that doesn't make it ok to let your kid play these games anymore than it would be ok to let them watch hardcore porn on the theory that at least it keeps them inside and quiet. Actually, if I had to choose, I'd choose the hardcore porn. But the point is that you can keep a child busy with games, books, sports, arts projects, chores, and community projects. It's just that it's more work.
modus,
My childhood was like yours and I agree it's more difficult for parents today. But that doesn't make it ok to let your kid play these games anymore than it would be ok to let them watch hardcore porn on the theory that at least it keeps them inside and quiet. Actually, if I had to choose, I'd choose the hardcore porn. But the point is that you can keep a child busy with games, books, sports, arts projects, chores, and community projects. It's just that it's more work.
The real reason for Iraq, was that Hussien was getting ready to open up his oil exports and price them against the Euro. That would have had disaterous effects to the dollar, especially had Opec followed suit.
- Mike
Exactly. Though, why we felt we should go and ruin a country because of greed is beyond my comprehension. It is their oil to do what the hell they want to do with it. We had scientists and technologists working on a way to get away from the need for oil (or the need for as much). We have people that are showing the use of hemp fuel, solar powered batteries, etc. The greedy bastards should rot in hell for the horrors they foisted on the Iraqis. Go ahead and say the world is a safer place with Saddam behind bars. Just remember, Saddam is an older man who has lived in a country littered with DU radiation from our 91 bombing. Cancer rates are high. He would have died sooner or later or the people, if they had so much hatred against him, would have raised up when they were ready. The people we backed and believed had been exiles for many many years.
The real reason for Iraq, was that Hussien was getting ready to open up his oil exports and price them against the Euro. That would have had disaterous effects to the dollar, especially had Opec followed suit.
- Mike
Exactly. Though, why we felt we should go and ruin a country because of greed is beyond my comprehension. It is their oil to do what the hell they want to do with it. We had scientists and technologists working on a way to get away from the need for oil (or the need for as much). We have people that are showing the use of hemp fuel, solar powered batteries, etc. The greedy bastards should rot in hell for the horrors they foisted on the Iraqis. Go ahead and say the world is a safer place with Saddam behind bars. Just remember, Saddam is an older man who has lived in a country littered with DU radiation from our 91 bombing. Cancer rates are high. He would have died sooner or later or the people, if they had so much hatred against him, would have raised up when they were ready. The people we backed and believed had been exiles for many many years.
God, it's terrible to see - all of it is just terrible. I can't understand anyone who sees pictures from Iraq and and does not think: Oh my god.
Tena
The fundies aren't saying "oh my god" they are praising jesus for allowing our troops to protect us from those brown skinned people.
God, it's terrible to see - all of it is just terrible. I can't understand anyone who sees pictures from Iraq and and does not think: Oh my god.
Tena
The fundies aren't saying "oh my god" they are praising jesus for allowing our troops to protect us from those brown skinned people.
Just wait until Rummy's DoD black ops bring out remote-controled robotic fighting "units".
That'll work for awhile, until they install hunter-killer AI's.
Humans do get burnt out with the constant violence.
Just wait until Rummy's DoD black ops bring out remote-controled robotic fighting "units".
That'll work for awhile, until they install hunter-killer AI's.
Humans do get burnt out with the constant violence.
Two, oil production out of Iraq needs to be ramped to maximum, with the markets pricing it against the dollar, and war costs paid for through sales.
Foreign travel is already unaffordable. You don't need to make it unsurvivable too.
Two, oil production out of Iraq needs to be ramped to maximum, with the markets pricing it against the dollar, and war costs paid for through sales.
Foreign travel is already unaffordable. You don't need to make it unsurvivable too.
konopelli - You're right. But if someone had paid attention, don't you think it could have been possible? Or was it too late by the time it was implemented?
I could see that - the minute that circuit was completed to form The Military/Industrial Complex the power was there.
Oy oy oy.
konopelli - You're right. But if someone had paid attention, don't you think it could have been possible? Or was it too late by the time it was implemented?
I could see that - the minute that circuit was completed to form The Military/Industrial Complex the power was there.
Oy oy oy.
Did I mention that the Husky Oil Company of Calgary, Alta, now owned by a Hong Kong Chinese family, is in negotiations for sale to the Government of China? That is, -all- of Husky, including their stake in the tar sands, and oil field development throughout the world? The position of the Canadian government is that since Husky hasn't been a Canadian asset for some time, they don't much care. Fair enough. Still, I have an idea that the United States, ever interested in things economic and oily and Chinese may somehow wish to become involved. Somehow.
Did I mention that the Husky Oil Company of Calgary, Alta, now owned by a Hong Kong Chinese family, is in negotiations for sale to the Government of China? That is, -all- of Husky, including their stake in the tar sands, and oil field development throughout the world? The position of the Canadian government is that since Husky hasn't been a Canadian asset for some time, they don't much care. Fair enough. Still, I have an idea that the United States, ever interested in things economic and oily and Chinese may somehow wish to become involved. Somehow.
Fragging is kind of like sex. If you do them right, goo goes everywhere.
And just like sex, after you're done fragging, you can just leave the server if you want, or stick around for another round.
Fragging is kind of like sex. If you do them right, goo goes everywhere.
And just like sex, after you're done fragging, you can just leave the server if you want, or stick around for another round.
dumsfeld does seem to think that he can reduce war to a video game.
which, courtesy of the military-industrial complex, works fine as long as you're in the air.
once you have to actually have to put people on the ground, though, you're fucked, in several senses of the word.
dumsfeld does seem to think that he can reduce war to a video game.
which, courtesy of the military-industrial complex, works fine as long as you're in the air.
once you have to actually have to put people on the ground, though, you're fucked, in several senses of the word.
"Cartoonish and fantasy violence is often perceived (incorrectly) by parents and public policy makers as safe even for children. However, experimental studies with college students have consistently found increased aggression after exposure to clearly unrealistic and fantasy violent video games. Indeed, at least one recent study found significant increases in aggression by college students after playing E-rated (suitable for everyone) violent video games."
What did the study define as aggression? Aggressive, but good natured, posturing will be prevalent in any game played by people. Even a certain amount of violence may be good natured, ie. picking up a pillow and throwing it at the other player when you lose. . .
"Cartoonish and fantasy violence is often perceived (incorrectly) by parents and public policy makers as safe even for children. However, experimental studies with college students have consistently found increased aggression after exposure to clearly unrealistic and fantasy violent video games. Indeed, at least one recent study found significant increases in aggression by college students after playing E-rated (suitable for everyone) violent video games."
What did the study define as aggression? Aggressive, but good natured, posturing will be prevalent in any game played by people. Even a certain amount of violence may be good natured, ie. picking up a pillow and throwing it at the other player when you lose. . .
Violence solves everything.
If you have a problem that violence doesn't solve, then you're not using enough of it.
Violence solves everything.
If you have a problem that violence doesn't solve, then you're not using enough of it.
gwpda; The Chinese have something better than US oil; US debt.
gwpda; The Chinese have something better than US oil; US debt.
Still, I have an idea that the United States, ever interested in things economic and oily and Chinese may somehow wish to become involved. Somehow.
you're such a tease.
Still, I have an idea that the United States, ever interested in things economic and oily and Chinese may somehow wish to become involved. Somehow.
you're such a tease.
I would also submit that there is nothing wrong with letting the kids do nothing. I have noticed that every minute of every day seems to be booked. When do kids get to hang out and use their imaginations. Quaint, I know. My girls spent half their childhoods playing dress-up and re-enacting movie scenes or writing their own scripts. As they got older, they dabbled in poetry and fiction. Nothing wrong in down time.
Hecate - I too would prefer porn to violence, but fortunately one doesn't have to make that choice. We just didn't have cable for the few years when I didn't want them exposed. By the time they were 13 or 14, I stopped censoring. They had enough sense by then. Of course, they are girls.
I would also submit that there is nothing wrong with letting the kids do nothing. I have noticed that every minute of every day seems to be booked. When do kids get to hang out and use their imaginations. Quaint, I know. My girls spent half their childhoods playing dress-up and re-enacting movie scenes or writing their own scripts. As they got older, they dabbled in poetry and fiction. Nothing wrong in down time.
Hecate - I too would prefer porn to violence, but fortunately one doesn't have to make that choice. We just didn't have cable for the few years when I didn't want them exposed. By the time they were 13 or 14, I stopped censoring. They had enough sense by then. Of course, they are girls.
Violence solves everything.
If you have a problem that violence doesn't solve, then you're not using enough of it.
American Feast | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 3:48 pm | #
Ahh, you're a funny little troll.
Violence solves everything.
If you have a problem that violence doesn't solve, then you're not using enough of it.
American Feast | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 3:48 pm | #
Ahh, you're a funny little troll.
It's all about how wonderful we are for bringing this kid over here and fixing him or her.
Tena
Absolutely. I guess they don't care that the Iraqi people no longer have any love for us, if they had much to start with, what, with all those flowers and hugs that were strewn at the liberation. When I think about what we visited on that country, I cringe with shame and sadness... and that was before we went to war with them. The sanctions and the no fly zone bombing for years was terrible, already. Well, at least the people who survive this will be very strong. They've gone through several wars, sanctions, diseases, and will still live to tell the tale, if the cancer doesn't get them. I wonder about the flora and fauna of the country. How has the bombing affected them. Can't be good.
It's all about how wonderful we are for bringing this kid over here and fixing him or her.
Tena
Absolutely. I guess they don't care that the Iraqi people no longer have any love for us, if they had much to start with, what, with all those flowers and hugs that were strewn at the liberation. When I think about what we visited on that country, I cringe with shame and sadness... and that was before we went to war with them. The sanctions and the no fly zone bombing for years was terrible, already. Well, at least the people who survive this will be very strong. They've gone through several wars, sanctions, diseases, and will still live to tell the tale, if the cancer doesn't get them. I wonder about the flora and fauna of the country. How has the bombing affected them. Can't be good.
Repeated media violence exposure increases aggression across the lifespan because of several related factors. 1. It creates more positive attitudes, beliefs, and expectations regarding use of aggressive solutions. 2. It creates aggressive behavioral scripts and makes them more cognitively accessible. 3. It decreases the accessibility of nonviolent scripts. 4. It decreases the normal negative emotional reactions to conflict, aggression, and violence.
Repeated media violence exposure increases aggression across the lifespan because of several related factors. 1. It creates more positive attitudes, beliefs, and expectations regarding use of aggressive solutions. 2. It creates aggressive behavioral scripts and makes them more cognitively accessible. 3. It decreases the accessibility of nonviolent scripts. 4. It decreases the normal negative emotional reactions to conflict, aggression, and violence.
"better than US oil;"
What part of my comment designated Husky Oil as a US company? Now, I mean.
GWPDA said, teasingly.
"better than US oil;"
What part of my comment designated Husky Oil as a US company? Now, I mean.
GWPDA said, teasingly.
Violence solves everything.
If you have a problem that violence doesn't solve, then you're not using enough of it.
I was born in '46. At age 11-12, on any given summer day, i would get my mitt, a ball, and a bat, climb aboard my trusty (Sears, one-speed) bicylce and, by 8:30 or 9 am I would be gone. My range was probably about 5 miles in any direction away from the house. We lived in that period in suburban (far west side of) Cleveland...There wer a lot of fields still then where you could get up a game...
I would be gone virtually all day, eating lunch at the houses of fellow ball-players who lived near wherever it was where we were playing at that moment..or if we were near my house, there...the games ended by 5 or so any day, too, so kids could get home for dinner. We had pocket change, for a coke of something. There were soda fountains in drug stores where your parents or your pals' parents were customers, on corners across from food markets where your moms shopped.
Nobody ever asked where I'd been...we were at the lake, or playing ball, or at somebody's house...
Violence solves everything.
If you have a problem that violence doesn't solve, then you're not using enough of it.
I was born in '46. At age 11-12, on any given summer day, i would get my mitt, a ball, and a bat, climb aboard my trusty (Sears, one-speed) bicylce and, by 8:30 or 9 am I would be gone. My range was probably about 5 miles in any direction away from the house. We lived in that period in suburban (far west side of) Cleveland...There wer a lot of fields still then where you could get up a game...
I would be gone virtually all day, eating lunch at the houses of fellow ball-players who lived near wherever it was where we were playing at that moment..or if we were near my house, there...the games ended by 5 or so any day, too, so kids could get home for dinner. We had pocket change, for a coke of something. There were soda fountains in drug stores where your parents or your pals' parents were customers, on corners across from food markets where your moms shopped.
Nobody ever asked where I'd been...we were at the lake, or playing ball, or at somebody's house...
ie. picking up a pillow and throwing it at the other player when you lose. . .
Yeah, that's what we're talking about here. Sure.
ie. picking up a pillow and throwing it at the other player when you lose. . .
Yeah, that's what we're talking about here. Sure.
gwpda; The Chinese have something better than US oil; US debt.
gwpda; The Chinese have something better than US oil; US debt.
Troll, troll, troll your post, Gently down the feed. Merrily, merrily troll along, A life is what you need!
Troll, troll, troll your post, Gently down the feed. Merrily, merrily troll along, A life is what you need!
oooops
oooops
gp etc. ; OOoooops. Force of habit.
'Sorry.
gp etc. ; OOoooops. Force of habit.
'Sorry.
When do kids get to hang out and use their imaginations. - Quiltlady in NY
When we were kids, we played "Salebarn". Of course, that was when we had a lot of farms and sale barns to sell the cattle, pigs, horses, etc. It was an exciting event when we could attend. It was held one day a week and we would have to be out of school to be able to go to the actual event. When we kids played it (I had several siblings) one would be the auctioneer who would describe the animal being sold (the person pretending to be the animal would get down on all fours and crawl around in a circle, just like the animals at the auction). The person being the animal would say they were a horse, or cow...Usually, whoever got to be the auctioneer would start the bidding for a big fat pig... it was a lot of fun...
When do kids get to hang out and use their imaginations. - Quiltlady in NY
When we were kids, we played "Salebarn". Of course, that was when we had a lot of farms and sale barns to sell the cattle, pigs, horses, etc. It was an exciting event when we could attend. It was held one day a week and we would have to be out of school to be able to go to the actual event. When we kids played it (I had several siblings) one would be the auctioneer who would describe the animal being sold (the person pretending to be the animal would get down on all fours and crawl around in a circle, just like the animals at the auction). The person being the animal would say they were a horse, or cow...Usually, whoever got to be the auctioneer would start the bidding for a big fat pig... it was a lot of fun...
QuiltLady - You must be around my age, because my greatest treasure when I was growing up was my box of dress up clothes. We didn't do movie scenes, my best friend and I - we did books. Fairy tales earliest. Then Oz books, Greek myths, Nancy Drew - in no particular order. There were others along the way, but the ones I listed were the most popular and enduring.
QuiltLady - You must be around my age, because my greatest treasure when I was growing up was my box of dress up clothes. We didn't do movie scenes, my best friend and I - we did books. Fairy tales earliest. Then Oz books, Greek myths, Nancy Drew - in no particular order. There were others along the way, but the ones I listed were the most popular and enduring.
that was when we had a lot of farms and sale barns to sell the cattle, pigs, horses, etc - meaning the rural area we grew up in - not that we actually had the farms, salebarns. The area no longer contains farms, but houses and more houses.
that was when we had a lot of farms and sale barns to sell the cattle, pigs, horses, etc - meaning the rural area we grew up in - not that we actually had the farms, salebarns. The area no longer contains farms, but houses and more houses.
I wonder about the flora and fauna of the country. How has the bombing affected them. Can't be good.
oldwhitelady | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 3:50 pm
I recall a mantra from the '60s: Bombs are not healthy for children and other living things. That prolly hasn't changed...But we've added depleted uranium to the mix, too... turned the whole country, basically, into a nuclear waste dump...well they gotta do something with the shit that Harry Reid just bargained away from the Nevada site, dont they???
oh, you thought they'd maybe stopped using it? funny! why would they?
I wonder about the flora and fauna of the country. How has the bombing affected them. Can't be good.
oldwhitelady | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 3:50 pm
I recall a mantra from the '60s: Bombs are not healthy for children and other living things. That prolly hasn't changed...But we've added depleted uranium to the mix, too... turned the whole country, basically, into a nuclear waste dump...well they gotta do something with the shit that Harry Reid just bargained away from the Nevada site, dont they???
oh, you thought they'd maybe stopped using it? funny! why would they?
"Repeated media violence exposure increases aggression across the lifespan because of several related factors. 1. It creates more positive attitudes, beliefs, and expectations regarding use of aggressive solutions. 2. It creates aggressive behavioral scripts and makes them more cognitively accessible. 3. It decreases the accessibility of nonviolent scripts. 4. It decreases the normal negative emotional reactions to conflict, aggression, and violence."
For me:
1. Has never been a problem. I would also question whether these are beliefs or practice.
2. Again, not in the realm of practice.
3. Accessibility meaning ability to receive them, or availability. Either one does not ring true.
4. Not on a moral level.
"Repeated media violence exposure increases aggression across the lifespan because of several related factors. 1. It creates more positive attitudes, beliefs, and expectations regarding use of aggressive solutions. 2. It creates aggressive behavioral scripts and makes them more cognitively accessible. 3. It decreases the accessibility of nonviolent scripts. 4. It decreases the normal negative emotional reactions to conflict, aggression, and violence."
For me:
1. Has never been a problem. I would also question whether these are beliefs or practice.
2. Again, not in the realm of practice.
3. Accessibility meaning ability to receive them, or availability. Either one does not ring true.
4. Not on a moral level.
Thanks for mentioning America's Army. It was (IIRC) developed before Sept. 11, and released around that time (for free,no less), in a spectacular bit of timing. The similarities between recruitment ads and video games became very apparent in early 2001.
Check out any of the Tom Clancy games, if you really want to scare the hell out of yourself. The headspace they help create is very frightening (the enjoyment I got out of planning Special Ops missions to kill many many people was really eerie). It's an interesting trend that the media assaults video games where the violence is criminal, or merely cathartic and apolitical, but ignores the far more disturbing militaristic games.
Thanks for mentioning America's Army. It was (IIRC) developed before Sept. 11, and released around that time (for free,no less), in a spectacular bit of timing. The similarities between recruitment ads and video games became very apparent in early 2001.
Check out any of the Tom Clancy games, if you really want to scare the hell out of yourself. The headspace they help create is very frightening (the enjoyment I got out of planning Special Ops missions to kill many many people was really eerie). It's an interesting trend that the media assaults video games where the violence is criminal, or merely cathartic and apolitical, but ignores the far more disturbing militaristic games.
The various incarnations of SimCity (SimEarth, SimAnt, The Sims); as well as the Civilization line. But they don't have the same market power as the various killing games, although I'm rather partial to them.
The Civilization games are as much about warfare as any game. The principle point is to make society strong enough so you can field the baddest military you can to win.
On the other hand, the Sims is one of the best selling games, so saying they don't have the same market power is absurd.
That out of the way, allow me to make the following rant:
VIDEO GAMES AREN"T ALWAYS FOR KIDS!
For crying out loud, I'm damn sick and tired of people bitching about games based on the assumption that only kids play them. It's like people complaining about animated shows that show realistic violence that are shown later on at night and are clearly meant for adults as not being appropriate for children. Well, duh.
The problem is that people are become so tied up in the concept of "video games=kid's stuff" that they overreact. Which then causes people like me, a 33 year old professional who plays games, to get annoyed that someone is bitching about one of my hobbies because they clearly don't know what they're talking about.
Take, for instance, the comment that started this thread off. Hard to tell the difference between ads for kids' video games and military recruitment? Well, what "kids' games" in particular? The new Medal of Honor game? That's not a kids' game. I would be rather ticked to see a parent buying it for a young kid.
The other thing is the panic about training for the military. Yes, "America's Army" is a recruiting tool. No one has ever denied it.
However, I've played that. A long time before I owned my own computer, I was also in the military. Let me let you in on a little secret: it's not the same thing. You run the obstacle course sitting on your ass usig a keyboard. You shoot a rifle sitting on your ass using a mouse and keyboard. Get to crawl through mud without getting dirty, travel across country without a twenty kilo load on your back wearing you down, jump out of planes without risking a broken leg or death every time you do. You get to go right to the cool stuff without learning the boring things like how to make your bed, shine your boots and do drill.
The first time someone who confuses the imaginary world of the game meets their first drill instructor, they will be in for a rude shock.
So I wouldn't worry too much about hordes of kids getting sucked in to the military to become mindless killers.
The various incarnations of SimCity (SimEarth, SimAnt, The Sims); as well as the Civilization line. But they don't have the same market power as the various killing games, although I'm rather partial to them.
The Civilization games are as much about warfare as any game. The principle point is to make society strong enough so you can field the baddest military you can to win.
On the other hand, the Sims is one of the best selling games, so saying they don't have the same market power is absurd.
That out of the way, allow me to make the following rant:
VIDEO GAMES AREN"T ALWAYS FOR KIDS!
For crying out loud, I'm damn sick and tired of people bitching about games based on the assumption that only kids play them. It's like people complaining about animated shows that show realistic violence that are shown later on at night and are clearly meant for adults as not being appropriate for children. Well, duh.
The problem is that people are become so tied up in the concept of "video games=kid's stuff" that they overreact. Which then causes people like me, a 33 year old professional who plays games, to get annoyed that someone is bitching about one of my hobbies because they clearly don't know what they're talking about.
Take, for instance, the comment that started this thread off. Hard to tell the difference between ads for kids' video games and military recruitment? Well, what "kids' games" in particular? The new Medal of Honor game? That's not a kids' game. I would be rather ticked to see a parent buying it for a young kid.
The other thing is the panic about training for the military. Yes, "America's Army" is a recruiting tool. No one has ever denied it.
However, I've played that. A long time before I owned my own computer, I was also in the military. Let me let you in on a little secret: it's not the same thing. You run the obstacle course sitting on your ass usig a keyboard. You shoot a rifle sitting on your ass using a mouse and keyboard. Get to crawl through mud without getting dirty, travel across country without a twenty kilo load on your back wearing you down, jump out of planes without risking a broken leg or death every time you do. You get to go right to the cool stuff without learning the boring things like how to make your bed, shine your boots and do drill.
The first time someone who confuses the imaginary world of the game meets their first drill instructor, they will be in for a rude shock.
So I wouldn't worry too much about hordes of kids getting sucked in to the military to become mindless killers.
For me:
1. Has never been a problem. I would also question whether these are beliefs or practice.
2. Again, not in the realm of practice.
3. Accessibility meaning ability to receive them, or availability. Either one does not ring true.
4. Not on a moral level.
Ragdrazi | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 4:01 pm
Rags: that's the difference between anecdote and evidence...just sayin
For me:
1. Has never been a problem. I would also question whether these are beliefs or practice.
2. Again, not in the realm of practice.
3. Accessibility meaning ability to receive them, or availability. Either one does not ring true.
4. Not on a moral level.
Ragdrazi | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 4:01 pm
Rags: that's the difference between anecdote and evidence...just sayin
ie. picking up a pillow and throwing it at the other player when you lose. . .
Yeah, that's what we're talking about here. Sure.
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 3:53 pm | #
Calm thy fury. I was asking for a clarification of what the study had said. What was it's definition of violence. Throwing a pillow is by definition a violent act, and may have been included in the study as an "indicator" when it did not deserve to be.
ie. picking up a pillow and throwing it at the other player when you lose. . .
Yeah, that's what we're talking about here. Sure.
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 3:53 pm | #
Calm thy fury. I was asking for a clarification of what the study had said. What was it's definition of violence. Throwing a pillow is by definition a violent act, and may have been included in the study as an "indicator" when it did not deserve to be.
For me:
1. Has never been a problem. I would also question whether these are beliefs or practice.
2. Again, not in the realm of practice.
3. Accessibility meaning ability to receive them, or availability. Either one does not ring true.
4. Not on a moral level.
Ragdrazi
These are facts based on years of study. We know about your "values" mister troll, it's okay to kill and hate. You should be in Iraq going after all those brown skins.
For me:
1. Has never been a problem. I would also question whether these are beliefs or practice.
2. Again, not in the realm of practice.
3. Accessibility meaning ability to receive them, or availability. Either one does not ring true.
4. Not on a moral level.
Ragdrazi
These are facts based on years of study. We know about your "values" mister troll, it's okay to kill and hate. You should be in Iraq going after all those brown skins.
konopelli - I think about the amount of time I spent outside when I was kid and I am amazed. I would be gone whole days, too. When I was growing up, my subdivision was at the edge of a farm on a hill. There were houses across the street and then behind them was the farm. Plus, there were little patches of woods and we have a creek running the through the neighborhood. Not only did we get the creek to play in, we had two sets of big round cement pipe when the creek was dry in summer, in which to get out of the sun.
I was never scheduled to do anything. During the school year I took piano lessons. Not in the summer.
We owned the neighborhood.
konopelli - I think about the amount of time I spent outside when I was kid and I am amazed. I would be gone whole days, too. When I was growing up, my subdivision was at the edge of a farm on a hill. There were houses across the street and then behind them was the farm. Plus, there were little patches of woods and we have a creek running the through the neighborhood. Not only did we get the creek to play in, we had two sets of big round cement pipe when the creek was dry in summer, in which to get out of the sun.
I was never scheduled to do anything. During the school year I took piano lessons. Not in the summer.
We owned the neighborhood.
"Is it just me or has it become difficult to distinguish between commercials for kids' video games and those for military recruitment?"
Yo- true, that.
But, it's not a "conspiracy theory" to think that the neo-cons would pump money into promoting these kind of video games, rather it's just common sense. The soldiers have to come from somewhere.
If you pay for recruitment ads why not invest in a games company to get them to produce games that might have the effect of producing interest in the military?
It just makes sense. Pretty extremely mild as far as 'conspiracy theories' go, if you ask me.
In fact, when liberals instinctively react against identifying such strategies by the other side, you're not 'thinking one step ahead of' the other side- rather, they've become suckers who'll always lose the fight.
"Is it just me or has it become difficult to distinguish between commercials for kids' video games and those for military recruitment?"
Yo- true, that.
But, it's not a "conspiracy theory" to think that the neo-cons would pump money into promoting these kind of video games, rather it's just common sense. The soldiers have to come from somewhere.
If you pay for recruitment ads why not invest in a games company to get them to produce games that might have the effect of producing interest in the military?
It just makes sense. Pretty extremely mild as far as 'conspiracy theories' go, if you ask me.
In fact, when liberals instinctively react against identifying such strategies by the other side, you're not 'thinking one step ahead of' the other side- rather, they've become suckers who'll always lose the fight.
"Rags: that's the difference between anecdote and evidence...just sayin"
And there is a difference between evidence and highly generalized statements which attempt to manipulate people into fear. In this case of fantasy violence. My story is not unique.
"Rags: that's the difference between anecdote and evidence...just sayin"
And there is a difference between evidence and highly generalized statements which attempt to manipulate people into fear. In this case of fantasy violence. My story is not unique.
No I wouldn't worry too much about hordes of kids getting sucked in to the military to become mindless killers.
Keith | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 4:03 pm
Keith, have you signed up for that hunting ranch in Texas where they'll connect you via your screen and modem to a rifle in a game-blind, so you can remotely slaughter the wildlife? just askin...
No I wouldn't worry too much about hordes of kids getting sucked in to the military to become mindless killers.
Keith | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 4:03 pm
Keith, have you signed up for that hunting ranch in Texas where they'll connect you via your screen and modem to a rifle in a game-blind, so you can remotely slaughter the wildlife? just askin...
Grew up just before the whole video game era, never really got into it myself (but I was a girl).
My two male cousins lived next door, and we played outside a lot, as have many noted here who grew up before that era. I spent a lot of time with my head under the front-end of my older cousin's '67 Chevelle. I can still out-talk most men my age about cars, especially late-60s GM muscle cars.
My fondest memory of non sequitur, bizarre play was the 'Barbie Olympics' my nearest-aged cousin and I would set up. It consisted, almost entirely, of our taking G.I. Joe and Malibu Barbie and shooting them out of a slingshot, across the yard into the above-ground swimming pool.
Shows you how much reverence I held for the whole 'Barbie World' they created around her, I guess -- most of the time, instead of a fashion show with expensive store-bought clothes, or making up fantasies of Barbie getting married to Ken, my Barbies were naked, flying through the air to land head-first in the swimming pool.
Grew up just before the whole video game era, never really got into it myself (but I was a girl).
My two male cousins lived next door, and we played outside a lot, as have many noted here who grew up before that era. I spent a lot of time with my head under the front-end of my older cousin's '67 Chevelle. I can still out-talk most men my age about cars, especially late-60s GM muscle cars.
My fondest memory of non sequitur, bizarre play was the 'Barbie Olympics' my nearest-aged cousin and I would set up. It consisted, almost entirely, of our taking G.I. Joe and Malibu Barbie and shooting them out of a slingshot, across the yard into the above-ground swimming pool.
Shows you how much reverence I held for the whole 'Barbie World' they created around her, I guess -- most of the time, instead of a fashion show with expensive store-bought clothes, or making up fantasies of Barbie getting married to Ken, my Barbies were naked, flying through the air to land head-first in the swimming pool.
Thumb, if you're still around, could you please at least make a statement perhaps clarifying what you meant? Seems to me the post was about commercials, not games. Damn people they are games, played on boxes, that have very little to do with anything aproaching reality. Your kids get it, why don't you? Shit, Rambo has more glorifying and sterilizing of war than any game, yet I don't see anyone getting upset at cheesey war porn flicks by hammy actors.
Thumb, if you're still around, could you please at least make a statement perhaps clarifying what you meant? Seems to me the post was about commercials, not games. Damn people they are games, played on boxes, that have very little to do with anything aproaching reality. Your kids get it, why don't you? Shit, Rambo has more glorifying and sterilizing of war than any game, yet I don't see anyone getting upset at cheesey war porn flicks by hammy actors.
"These are facts based on years of study. We know about your "values" mister troll, it's okay to kill and hate. You should be in Iraq going after all those brown skins."
You are mistaking me for a troll because I hold a different position on this one single issue then you. I do not believe we should be in Iraq and have protested against it many many times. However, I do not belie that the sort of complacency with the state of affairs and violence we see in this country has traceable roots back to fantasy violence. You would do well to be more open to contrary opinions on this issue.
"These are facts based on years of study. We know about your "values" mister troll, it's okay to kill and hate. You should be in Iraq going after all those brown skins."
You are mistaking me for a troll because I hold a different position on this one single issue then you. I do not believe we should be in Iraq and have protested against it many many times. However, I do not belie that the sort of complacency with the state of affairs and violence we see in this country has traceable roots back to fantasy violence. You would do well to be more open to contrary opinions on this issue.
sac666 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 4:10 pm
see my post to Keith, up-thread a bit, okay, prior ot getting snarky about how 'they're just games...'
sac666 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 4:10 pm
see my post to Keith, up-thread a bit, okay, prior ot getting snarky about how 'they're just games...'
Throwing a pillow is by definition a violent act, and may have been included in the study as an "indicator" when it did not deserve to be.
Yeah, that's what happened.
Throwing a pillow is by definition a violent act, and may have been included in the study as an "indicator" when it did not deserve to be.
Yeah, that's what happened.
You are mistaking me for a troll because I hold a different position on this one single issue then you. I do not believe we should be in Iraq and have protested against it many many times. However, I do not belie that the sort of complacency with the state of affairs and violence we see in this country has traceable roots back to fantasy violence. You would do well to be more open to contrary opinions on this issue.
Ragdrazi
My career in law enforcement tells me different, you should come over here and spend a day with me on the job, maybe the fantasy world you think you live in would be shattered!
You are mistaking me for a troll because I hold a different position on this one single issue then you. I do not believe we should be in Iraq and have protested against it many many times. However, I do not belie that the sort of complacency with the state of affairs and violence we see in this country has traceable roots back to fantasy violence. You would do well to be more open to contrary opinions on this issue.
Ragdrazi
My career in law enforcement tells me different, you should come over here and spend a day with me on the job, maybe the fantasy world you think you live in would be shattered!
While you're busy arguing about the evils of violence in the media, you are becoming less able to fight the violence around you.
Turn the other cheek? Get your head handed to you.
That's what we're dealing with. That's who we're fighting. You think not?
We lost this election due to a fraudulent vote count.
"Count every vote" turned into "there's no way we could possibly win" before the count was over. Ten thousand lawyers collected their fees and went home richer. Soros, who owns our Party is a member of the Carlyle Group.
And you prissy boys and girls argue about the effect of video games.
Yes, the Empire uses them.
You'd better get used to using them too. At one time one of the major story lines was the role of intrepid protagonists fighting against a dark and evil empire. If you have a hard time convincing kids that's a better role than first person shooter in an idiot Army game, it's the fault of your own lack of imagination.
Violence is life. Vegetarians get eaten by carnivores. Deal with it.
Grow some horns and an attitude if you don't want teeth and claws and avarice.
Teach the kids to Fight for Right and that part of the game is figuring out who the bad guys are or get beaten to death every time.
While you're busy arguing about the evils of violence in the media, you are becoming less able to fight the violence around you.
Turn the other cheek? Get your head handed to you.
That's what we're dealing with. That's who we're fighting. You think not?
We lost this election due to a fraudulent vote count.
"Count every vote" turned into "there's no way we could possibly win" before the count was over. Ten thousand lawyers collected their fees and went home richer. Soros, who owns our Party is a member of the Carlyle Group.
And you prissy boys and girls argue about the effect of video games.
Yes, the Empire uses them.
You'd better get used to using them too. At one time one of the major story lines was the role of intrepid protagonists fighting against a dark and evil empire. If you have a hard time convincing kids that's a better role than first person shooter in an idiot Army game, it's the fault of your own lack of imagination.
Violence is life. Vegetarians get eaten by carnivores. Deal with it.
Grow some horns and an attitude if you don't want teeth and claws and avarice.
Teach the kids to Fight for Right and that part of the game is figuring out who the bad guys are or get beaten to death every time.
Throwing a pillow is by definition a violent act, and may have been included in the study as an "indicator" when it did not deserve to be.
Yeah, that's what happened.
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 4:12 pm | #
Once again, I was asking for a clarification on the studies method. I have done my red letter best to be respectful of your opinions as possible, and yet I’m getting attacked. I find it somewhat ironic that I am facing such aggression.
Throwing a pillow is by definition a violent act, and may have been included in the study as an "indicator" when it did not deserve to be.
Yeah, that's what happened.
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 4:12 pm | #
Once again, I was asking for a clarification on the studies method. I have done my red letter best to be respectful of your opinions as possible, and yet I’m getting attacked. I find it somewhat ironic that I am facing such aggression.
Tell that to all those parents who's kids have been kidnapped and killed. I am not saying these games are any kind of substitution, but you can't ignore there are predators. Are you willing to risk your kid. I am not.dawna
Yeah just lock em in the closet then they won't fall in the bathroom, pre chew their food so they won't choke ect.... with this victims mentality why even get out of bed ?
most of the time, instead of a fashion show with expensive store-bought clothes, or making up fantasies of Barbie getting married to Ken, my Barbies were naked, flying through the air to land head-first in the swimming pool.
Philostopher
Several times, my barbies were hung, naked from a tree branch. Where did we get that from?
Tell that to all those parents who's kids have been kidnapped and killed. I am not saying these games are any kind of substitution, but you can't ignore there are predators. Are you willing to risk your kid. I am not.dawna
Yeah just lock em in the closet then they won't fall in the bathroom, pre chew their food so they won't choke ect.... with this victims mentality why even get out of bed ?
most of the time, instead of a fashion show with expensive store-bought clothes, or making up fantasies of Barbie getting married to Ken, my Barbies were naked, flying through the air to land head-first in the swimming pool.
Philostopher
Several times, my barbies were hung, naked from a tree branch. Where did we get that from?
I find it somewhat ironic that I am facing such aggression.
Ragdrazi
Maybe you want to get your head out of the sand.
I find it somewhat ironic that I am facing such aggression.
Ragdrazi
Maybe you want to get your head out of the sand.
Yeah just lock em in the closet then they won't fall in the bathroom, pre chew their food so they won't choke ect.... with this victims mentality why even get out of bed ?
dot dash dot
Talk about taking the rope and running with it, where the hell in my post did you read where I said to lock up the kids, have you ever heard of reading a book, playing a family game? Get a grip.. you don't have to go from one extreme to another.
Yeah just lock em in the closet then they won't fall in the bathroom, pre chew their food so they won't choke ect.... with this victims mentality why even get out of bed ?
dot dash dot
Talk about taking the rope and running with it, where the hell in my post did you read where I said to lock up the kids, have you ever heard of reading a book, playing a family game? Get a grip.. you don't have to go from one extreme to another.
"My career in law enforcement tells me different, you should come over here and spend a day with me on the job, maybe the fantasy world you think you live in would be shattered!"
No. The world of violence you live in is real. It really hurts people. All due respect to your profession, because I’m not equating you with this, but I saw a girl I had a crush on get her ass kicked by the cops at a protest, for no reason. That was real violence. That was not an amusement. That had absolutely nothing to do with fantasy violence. I do not live in a world of fantasy. Fantasy violence lives in a world of fantasy.
"Vegetarians get eaten by carnivores."
And yet out live the carnivores by the fact of their shear numbers.
"My career in law enforcement tells me different, you should come over here and spend a day with me on the job, maybe the fantasy world you think you live in would be shattered!"
No. The world of violence you live in is real. It really hurts people. All due respect to your profession, because I’m not equating you with this, but I saw a girl I had a crush on get her ass kicked by the cops at a protest, for no reason. That was real violence. That was not an amusement. That had absolutely nothing to do with fantasy violence. I do not live in a world of fantasy. Fantasy violence lives in a world of fantasy.
"Vegetarians get eaten by carnivores."
And yet out live the carnivores by the fact of their shear numbers.
"I find it somewhat ironic that I am facing such aggression.
Ragdrazi
Maybe you want to get your head out of the sand."
That post doesn't make any sense.
"I find it somewhat ironic that I am facing such aggression.
Ragdrazi
Maybe you want to get your head out of the sand."
That post doesn't make any sense.
Sometimes my barbies were the sultan's sex slaves.
Wonder where that came from?
Sometimes my barbies were the sultan's sex slaves.
Wonder where that came from?
Well, I guess it goes to show that Barbies played a part in our childhood. Funny, how she has to have all those accessories, nowadays. It must be to tell the kiddos that they must consume. BE A CONSUMER, KEEP UP WITH THE JONES'S.
Well, I guess it goes to show that Barbies played a part in our childhood. Funny, how she has to have all those accessories, nowadays. It must be to tell the kiddos that they must consume. BE A CONSUMER, KEEP UP WITH THE JONES'S.
do not belie
I don't think this word means what you think it means.
do not belie
I don't think this word means what you think it means.
Ohh! Way to score the low blow.
Ohh! Way to score the low blow.
Because you've never made a typo in your whole life!
Because you've never made a typo in your whole life!
It's just you.
It's just you.
But the deep truth is that the games teach their devotees embedded meanings and occulted principles which are anything but evident without pretty intense reflection (and access to some decent weed; but of course that part's true anytime)...Konopelli
I did read it and thought it was one of the sillier posts. Harry Potter must drive you batshit.
That last BTW, was snark.
But the deep truth is that the games teach their devotees embedded meanings and occulted principles which are anything but evident without pretty intense reflection (and access to some decent weed; but of course that part's true anytime)...Konopelli
I did read it and thought it was one of the sillier posts. Harry Potter must drive you batshit.
That last BTW, was snark.
The maturity.
The maturity.
No. The world of violence you live in is real. It really hurts people. All due respect to your profession, because I’m not equating you with this, but I saw a girl I had a crush on get her ass kicked by the cops at a protest, for no reason. That was real violence. That was not an amusement. That had absolutely nothing to do with fantasy violence. I do not live in a world of fantasy. Fantasy violence lives in a world of fantasy.
"Vegetarians get eaten by carnivores."
And yet out live the carnivores by the fact of their shear numbers.
Ragdrazi |
First I am NOT a cop, I work in forensic science. If you want to choose to ingore, deny, pontificate the real issue here that is your choice. But don't think we are all suddenly going to agree with you when everything we see and hear tells us something different.
No. The world of violence you live in is real. It really hurts people. All due respect to your profession, because I’m not equating you with this, but I saw a girl I had a crush on get her ass kicked by the cops at a protest, for no reason. That was real violence. That was not an amusement. That had absolutely nothing to do with fantasy violence. I do not live in a world of fantasy. Fantasy violence lives in a world of fantasy.
"Vegetarians get eaten by carnivores."
And yet out live the carnivores by the fact of their shear numbers.
Ragdrazi |
First I am NOT a cop, I work in forensic science. If you want to choose to ingore, deny, pontificate the real issue here that is your choice. But don't think we are all suddenly going to agree with you when everything we see and hear tells us something different.
Well, I guess it goes to show that Barbies played a part in our childhood
My mom, a feminist who never knew that she was one, refused to let me have a Barbie because she thought Barbies sent an inappropriate message about women's bodies. I kid you not. Back in the early '60s. But I agree that nowadays, in addition to sending inappropriate messages about women's bodies, they teach little girls to consume, consume, consume!!
Well, I guess it goes to show that Barbies played a part in our childhood
My mom, a feminist who never knew that she was one, refused to let me have a Barbie because she thought Barbies sent an inappropriate message about women's bodies. I kid you not. Back in the early '60s. But I agree that nowadays, in addition to sending inappropriate messages about women's bodies, they teach little girls to consume, consume, consume!!
I took a break from playing the Sims to read this. It's been a while. If I play it too much, I start expecting raises every few days at work.
My son plays violent games and strategic games. He knows the difference between real and play. Does it desensitize him? I don't think so. What it does do is make the danger of this administration's folly more apparent -- these kids have seen Armageddon, they've played it.
I took a break from playing the Sims to read this. It's been a while. If I play it too much, I start expecting raises every few days at work.
My son plays violent games and strategic games. He knows the difference between real and play. Does it desensitize him? I don't think so. What it does do is make the danger of this administration's folly more apparent -- these kids have seen Armageddon, they've played it.
First I am NOT a cop, I work in forensic science."
Ok. Good. Actually. . . icky. . .
"If you want to choose to ingore, deny, pontificate the real issue here that is your choice. But don't think we are all suddenly going to agree with you when everything we see and hear tells us something different."
Everything we. . . because I'm not alone here either. . . tells us something different. I would ask you to consider that your causes don't necessarily lead to your effects. That is all. This is a difference of opinion. One which we could have been civil about.
First I am NOT a cop, I work in forensic science."
Ok. Good. Actually. . . icky. . .
"If you want to choose to ingore, deny, pontificate the real issue here that is your choice. But don't think we are all suddenly going to agree with you when everything we see and hear tells us something different."
Everything we. . . because I'm not alone here either. . . tells us something different. I would ask you to consider that your causes don't necessarily lead to your effects. That is all. This is a difference of opinion. One which we could have been civil about.
During the last several decades, electronic interactive games have emerged as one of the most popular forms of entertainment, particularly among adolescents. In 1998, revenues totaled $6.3 billion in the United States. Ninety percent (90%) of U.S. households with children have rented or owned a video or computer game, and young people spend an average of 20 minutes per day playing video games. Video games are the second most popular form of entertainment after television.
Although research has pointed to the constructive uses of video games in such fields as education and medicine, there are trends in game playing that some observers find disturbing. A 1998 survey revealed that 80% of the video games preferred by young people contain violent or aggressive content; of these, 21% depict violence against women. A survey of 900 fourth graders disclosed similar results: 50% of the respondents chose games with fantasy or human violence as their favorites.
Researchers have raised concerns about the potential link between playing violent video games and subsequent aggressive behavior. A number of studies have shown such effects, with younger children being particularly susceptible to influence. In fact, recent studies show that after playing a violent video game children can become desensitized to violence or act hostile to others.
While research on video games and aggressive behavior must be considered preliminary, it may be reasonably inferred from the more than 1,000 reports and studies on television violence that video game violence may also contribute to aggressive behavior and desensitization to violence. The interactive nature of video games may increase the likelihood of learning aggressive behavior, especially considering the move toward real-life action and actors in the newer generation of video games. In addition, the increasing realism might encourage greater identification with characters and more imitation of the behaviors of video game models.
Indeed, the newer generation of interactive games has changed radically in their sophistication, graphics, realism, interactivity and level of violence and gore, allowing players to participate in more realistic violent action than ever. For instance, in the game "Carmageddon," players run down pedestrians, including elderly women with walkers. If a player completes all levels of this game, he or she will have killed a maximum of 33,000 people. This trend has intensified public concern regarding the potential harmful effects of electronic interactive games. As a result, legislative hearings on the issue have been held in several countries, and video game rating systems have been developed for use in the United States, Canada, Great Britain and Australia.
During the last several decades, electronic interactive games have emerged as one of the most popular forms of entertainment, particularly among adolescents. In 1998, revenues totaled $6.3 billion in the United States. Ninety percent (90%) of U.S. households with children have rented or owned a video or computer game, and young people spend an average of 20 minutes per day playing video games. Video games are the second most popular form of entertainment after television.
Although research has pointed to the constructive uses of video games in such fields as education and medicine, there are trends in game playing that some observers find disturbing. A 1998 survey revealed that 80% of the video games preferred by young people contain violent or aggressive content; of these, 21% depict violence against women. A survey of 900 fourth graders disclosed similar results: 50% of the respondents chose games with fantasy or human violence as their favorites.
Researchers have raised concerns about the potential link between playing violent video games and subsequent aggressive behavior. A number of studies have shown such effects, with younger children being particularly susceptible to influence. In fact, recent studies show that after playing a violent video game children can become desensitized to violence or act hostile to others.
While research on video games and aggressive behavior must be considered preliminary, it may be reasonably inferred from the more than 1,000 reports and studies on television violence that video game violence may also contribute to aggressive behavior and desensitization to violence. The interactive nature of video games may increase the likelihood of learning aggressive behavior, especially considering the move toward real-life action and actors in the newer generation of video games. In addition, the increasing realism might encourage greater identification with characters and more imitation of the behaviors of video game models.
Indeed, the newer generation of interactive games has changed radically in their sophistication, graphics, realism, interactivity and level of violence and gore, allowing players to participate in more realistic violent action than ever. For instance, in the game "Carmageddon," players run down pedestrians, including elderly women with walkers. If a player completes all levels of this game, he or she will have killed a maximum of 33,000 people. This trend has intensified public concern regarding the potential harmful effects of electronic interactive games. As a result, legislative hearings on the issue have been held in several countries, and video game rating systems have been developed for use in the United States, Canada, Great Britain and Australia.
During the last several decades, electronic interactive games...
It's generally considered good manners to cite other people's writing as such when you rip it off.
During the last several decades, electronic interactive games...
It's generally considered good manners to cite other people's writing as such when you rip it off.
My brother and I play Grand Theft Auto after his kids go to bed.
Gonzo, I like a good destructive video game but there are lots of good constructive games as well. On Amazon.com's top 25 Video Games, 12 of them could be considered violent (that includes a Harry Potter game and Chess). The other 13 include several business simulations (Roller Coaster Tycoon, for example), a Nancy Drew Mystery, 1 sports game, a flight simulator and a poker game. All the simulations have a degree of constructiveness.
Certainly, there are many popular combat games and they get attention in the media. However, there are plenty of fun games that don't involve killing anyone and they are quite popular and, in some cases educational.
My brother and I play Grand Theft Auto after his kids go to bed.
Gonzo, I like a good destructive video game but there are lots of good constructive games as well. On Amazon.com's top 25 Video Games, 12 of them could be considered violent (that includes a Harry Potter game and Chess). The other 13 include several business simulations (Roller Coaster Tycoon, for example), a Nancy Drew Mystery, 1 sports game, a flight simulator and a poker game. All the simulations have a degree of constructiveness.
Certainly, there are many popular combat games and they get attention in the media. However, there are plenty of fun games that don't involve killing anyone and they are quite popular and, in some cases educational.
This doesn’t show anything. At best it shows that little kids may be more inclined to push down other little kids after playing something not age appropriate. I would ask again what their definition of violence is. Carmageddon is what you might call a shock value game. Not a big seller. That's like judging all of porn based off of a snuff film.
This doesn’t show anything. At best it shows that little kids may be more inclined to push down other little kids after playing something not age appropriate. I would ask again what their definition of violence is. Carmageddon is what you might call a shock value game. Not a big seller. That's like judging all of porn based off of a snuff film.
I don't think that the issue is all violent video games. It is those that have US military themes that we are really talking about. It isn't even all about the violence. It's about something else - the image.
Just because kids can discriminate between real and fantastic violence, which I don't doubt at all, does not mean that they aren't susceptible to other cues, and a glorified military is one of those.
When we veer off into violence in general, it is more difficult to take a hard and fast position. Or so it seems to me. I cannot imagine any kid not understanding perfectly well that killing something with a sword is fantasy, for all intents and purposes. I don't think it makes kids aggressive necessarily. I think it depends on everything, not just one thing, about a game.
I don't think that the issue is all violent video games. It is those that have US military themes that we are really talking about. It isn't even all about the violence. It's about something else - the image.
Just because kids can discriminate between real and fantastic violence, which I don't doubt at all, does not mean that they aren't susceptible to other cues, and a glorified military is one of those.
When we veer off into violence in general, it is more difficult to take a hard and fast position. Or so it seems to me. I cannot imagine any kid not understanding perfectly well that killing something with a sword is fantasy, for all intents and purposes. I don't think it makes kids aggressive necessarily. I think it depends on everything, not just one thing, about a game.
I guess I'm missing the war porn type recruitment ads. I seem to see the ones that stress the "waterskiing and the adventure," in the words of the old Monty Python sketch, or else the ones stressing what a good career move joining the army is and how it'll help you get ahead in the business world.
I guess I'm missing the war porn type recruitment ads. I seem to see the ones that stress the "waterskiing and the adventure," in the words of the old Monty Python sketch, or else the ones stressing what a good career move joining the army is and how it'll help you get ahead in the business world.
I don't think that the issue is all violent video games. It is those that have US military themes that we are really talking about.
Well, ok. But what I was really talking about is the similarity of US defense policy to a video game.
I don't think that the issue is all violent video games. It is those that have US military themes that we are really talking about.
Well, ok. But what I was really talking about is the similarity of US defense policy to a video game.
I agree with Tina. I think there is something sinister in the US Army video game. I think that most people are able to separate fantasy violence from real life and I think the US Army is attempting to bridge that gap in order to get recruitment.
I agree with Tina. I think there is something sinister in the US Army video game. I think that most people are able to separate fantasy violence from real life and I think the US Army is attempting to bridge that gap in order to get recruitment.
I've always kinda felt, that by being in the military for so long, doing the real thing (with real weapons systems)...
video games were sort of a cheat. Sort of like playing paintball.
Whats the point?
I've always kinda felt, that by being in the military for so long, doing the real thing (with real weapons systems)...
video games were sort of a cheat. Sort of like playing paintball.
Whats the point?
. At best it shows that little kids may be more inclined to push down other little kids after playing something not age appropriate. I would ask again what their definition of violence is.
Hey, this is a fun game! First, you define a pillow fight as violence, then you define a kid pushing other kids down as not violence, but as "just pushing down other little kids after playing something not age appropriate." Wow, I wonder what we'd call a game like this?
. At best it shows that little kids may be more inclined to push down other little kids after playing something not age appropriate. I would ask again what their definition of violence is.
Hey, this is a fun game! First, you define a pillow fight as violence, then you define a kid pushing other kids down as not violence, but as "just pushing down other little kids after playing something not age appropriate." Wow, I wonder what we'd call a game like this?
I don't know about the recruiting tool end of it.
I agree with what Keith said upthread though... once some snotnosed kid hooked on 'Tour of Duty' meets his Drill Instructors on the hallowed yellow footprints of MCRD, that fucking videogame will be an afterthought in about a heartbeat.
And, thats a fact.
I don't know about the recruiting tool end of it.
I agree with what Keith said upthread though... once some snotnosed kid hooked on 'Tour of Duty' meets his Drill Instructors on the hallowed yellow footprints of MCRD, that fucking videogame will be an afterthought in about a heartbeat.
And, thats a fact.
I guess it goes to show that Barbies played a part in our childhood. Funny, how she has to have all those accessories, nowadays.
She had to have them then, too. The toy aisle was filled with packets and packets of clothes, not to mention her Dream House, her Dream Car, her Dream RV, etc etc etc. It was a source of bitter, cynical amusement for my parents.
I guess it goes to show that Barbies played a part in our childhood. Funny, how she has to have all those accessories, nowadays.
She had to have them then, too. The toy aisle was filled with packets and packets of clothes, not to mention her Dream House, her Dream Car, her Dream RV, etc etc etc. It was a source of bitter, cynical amusement for my parents.
Video Game Violence . 1999. Issue Briefs. Studio City, Calif.: Mediascope Press.
Video Game Violence . 1999. Issue Briefs. Studio City, Calif.: Mediascope Press.
Well, after playing the games, they think it's going to be like that in the military, so they enlist. They find out what a difference it is. If they hate it, too Cheneying late. They signed on the dotted line and don't want to be thrown in the brig as a deserter. What to do, what to do?
Well, after playing the games, they think it's going to be like that in the military, so they enlist. They find out what a difference it is. If they hate it, too Cheneying late. They signed on the dotted line and don't want to be thrown in the brig as a deserter. What to do, what to do?
Hey, this is a fun game! First, you define a pillow fight as violence, then you define a kid pushing other kids down as not violence, but as "just pushing down other little kids after playing something not age appropriate." Wow, I wonder what we'd call a game like this?
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 5:05 pm | #
We'd call this game "Questioning Dogma."
Hey, this is a fun game! First, you define a pillow fight as violence, then you define a kid pushing other kids down as not violence, but as "just pushing down other little kids after playing something not age appropriate." Wow, I wonder what we'd call a game like this?
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 5:05 pm | #
We'd call this game "Questioning Dogma."
Barndog - I believe you. I'm sure that anyone who enlists thinking it's going to be like a video game gets really sorry really fast.
The hard part is that they've got him or her by then.
Barndog - I believe you. I'm sure that anyone who enlists thinking it's going to be like a video game gets really sorry really fast.
The hard part is that they've got him or her by then.
dave - my persian sex slave Barbies didn't need a lot of accessories.
dave - my persian sex slave Barbies didn't need a lot of accessories.
"The hard part is that they've got him or her by then."
Yeah, that's the problem.
"The hard part is that they've got him or her by then."
Yeah, that's the problem.
Questioning Dogma - Level 2
Violence is a Subjective Term
Rules:
Define the term violence as used in these studies.
Questioning Dogma - Level 2
Violence is a Subjective Term
Rules:
Define the term violence as used in these studies.
dave - my barbies didn't need a lot of accessories, either. My parents wouldn't buy stuff like that. My parents didn't buy the dolls, either. They were too busy trying to keep their children fed, shoed & clothed.
dave - my barbies didn't need a lot of accessories, either. My parents wouldn't buy stuff like that. My parents didn't buy the dolls, either. They were too busy trying to keep their children fed, shoed & clothed.
I agree with Tina. I think there is something sinister in the US Army video game. I think that most people are able to separate fantasy violence from real life and I think the US Army is attempting to bridge that gap in order to get recruitment.
Real war is generally an unpleasant thing that carries a fairly high risk of death and/or dismemberment. Americans tend to hold their lives, and the lives of the people around them in high enough esteem that they are unwilling to tolerate the level of casualties usually associated with real war carried out by real people, and our enemies know this.
Therefore our ability to conduct traditional US military policy in the future depends on our being able to protect our soldiers from personally having to be involved in real wars.
High-level planners at the Pentagon have, for several years now, been working on technological "force multipliers", or ways of killing or neutralizing large numbers of enemy forces while exposing our own forces to relatively low risk.
So it's not just that the Army is exploiting video games for recruitment; it's that the Army wants to make actually fighting a war as much as possible like playing a video game. Rumsfeld is really into this kind of thing; it's why he insisted on understaffing the Iraq invasion.
If you want to see the idea carried to extremes, though, check out Big O, which at least used to be on Adult Swim. Every day, after he's done fighting the humongous evil enemy robot, Roger Smith gets in his big car and drives home to his penthouse apartment and his robot girlfriend.
I agree with Tina. I think there is something sinister in the US Army video game. I think that most people are able to separate fantasy violence from real life and I think the US Army is attempting to bridge that gap in order to get recruitment.
Real war is generally an unpleasant thing that carries a fairly high risk of death and/or dismemberment. Americans tend to hold their lives, and the lives of the people around them in high enough esteem that they are unwilling to tolerate the level of casualties usually associated with real war carried out by real people, and our enemies know this.
Therefore our ability to conduct traditional US military policy in the future depends on our being able to protect our soldiers from personally having to be involved in real wars.
High-level planners at the Pentagon have, for several years now, been working on technological "force multipliers", or ways of killing or neutralizing large numbers of enemy forces while exposing our own forces to relatively low risk.
So it's not just that the Army is exploiting video games for recruitment; it's that the Army wants to make actually fighting a war as much as possible like playing a video game. Rumsfeld is really into this kind of thing; it's why he insisted on understaffing the Iraq invasion.
If you want to see the idea carried to extremes, though, check out Big O, which at least used to be on Adult Swim. Every day, after he's done fighting the humongous evil enemy robot, Roger Smith gets in his big car and drives home to his penthouse apartment and his robot girlfriend.
Violence is a Subjective Term
Violence is Violence, maybe you call it hitting someone with a pillow, from the research I posted above it's much more than a subjective term.
Violence is a Subjective Term
Violence is Violence, maybe you call it hitting someone with a pillow, from the research I posted above it's much more than a subjective term.
There are millions of people who play these violent games that never have thoughts of enlisting. it just gives them demented ideas to try out on other humans. I have seen this first hand.
There are millions of people who play these violent games that never have thoughts of enlisting. it just gives them demented ideas to try out on other humans. I have seen this first hand.
Violence is violence is not a definition of term. The research you posted above, unless I've missed one of your posts, did not attempt to make a definition either.
Violence is violence is not a definition of term. The research you posted above, unless I've missed one of your posts, did not attempt to make a definition either.
So, if it's an 'all volunteer force' -and you under your 'own free will' volunteered - whats the problem?
The issue of 'stop loss' is included in every standard issue military contract out there. It's included in the one I signed way back in the 70's.
Same for the National recall of Inactive Reserves.
It's not a new issue - thats what I'm saying. Every person who's joined the military since the draft ended in 1973 knows it could occur at any time.
There used to be this odd thing called 'service and duty to country'.
I felt like I had to Honor my Dad and Uncles who served - none of which were drafted by the way - WW2 & Korea & Vietnam.
Thats just me. So what I'm wondering is - what happend to that 'service an duty to country'?
So, if it's an 'all volunteer force' -and you under your 'own free will' volunteered - whats the problem?
The issue of 'stop loss' is included in every standard issue military contract out there. It's included in the one I signed way back in the 70's.
Same for the National recall of Inactive Reserves.
It's not a new issue - thats what I'm saying. Every person who's joined the military since the draft ended in 1973 knows it could occur at any time.
There used to be this odd thing called 'service and duty to country'.
I felt like I had to Honor my Dad and Uncles who served - none of which were drafted by the way - WW2 & Korea & Vietnam.
Thats just me. So what I'm wondering is - what happend to that 'service an duty to country'?
I would ask you to question whether the people got their demented ideas from video games or were just demented. . .
I would ask you to question whether the people got their demented ideas from video games or were just demented. . .
Thats just me. So what I'm wondering is - what happend to that 'service an duty to country'?
Guess I'd argue the distinction between "service and duty to country" and "service and duty to whomever happens to occupy the constitutional office of the President."
Especially since Congress seems to have given away it's constitutional duty to declare war (and Congress, in this democratic republic, is supposed to represent the country we arguably owe service and duty to....).
Thats just me. So what I'm wondering is - what happend to that 'service an duty to country'?
Guess I'd argue the distinction between "service and duty to country" and "service and duty to whomever happens to occupy the constitutional office of the President."
Especially since Congress seems to have given away it's constitutional duty to declare war (and Congress, in this democratic republic, is supposed to represent the country we arguably owe service and duty to....).
"So, if it's an 'all volunteer force' -and you under your 'own free will' volunteered - whats the problem?"
It feels like a sinister underhanded tactic to me. Orwellian.
"So, if it's an 'all volunteer force' -and you under your 'own free will' volunteered - whats the problem?"
It feels like a sinister underhanded tactic to me. Orwellian.
Barndog - There is more than one way to serve one's country and to do one's duty.
I honor your way of having done that and I thank you. But I will thank you as well to refrain from believing that the only way someone honors her country and does her duty is by being the military.
D'you see what I mean?
Barndog - There is more than one way to serve one's country and to do one's duty.
I honor your way of having done that and I thank you. But I will thank you as well to refrain from believing that the only way someone honors her country and does her duty is by being the military.
D'you see what I mean?
Obviously not. Back when America's Army was first released, we got this:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view...002-06-05&
res=l
Obviously not. Back when America's Army was first released, we got this:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view...002-06-05&
res=l
I want to sniff some
ASS-PANTIES!!!11
I want to sniff some
ASS-PANTIES!!!11
RMJ- that was then and this is now. Recent change right?
Tena - I said that was my view. And that was oh....27 years ago too.
Many things have changed. I still belive as strongly about my constitution and country, but the Marine Corps taught me to question my government. As I get older, my questioning becomes stronger and more deliberate.
That's serving your country by holding the fuckers accountable or their actions. At every turn.
RMJ- that was then and this is now. Recent change right?
Tena - I said that was my view. And that was oh....27 years ago too.
Many things have changed. I still belive as strongly about my constitution and country, but the Marine Corps taught me to question my government. As I get older, my questioning becomes stronger and more deliberate.
That's serving your country by holding the fuckers accountable or their actions. At every turn.
For* their actions.
Duh.
For* their actions.
Duh.
I better stop spelling while I have the opportunity.
I better stop spelling while I have the opportunity.
There are millions of people who play these violent games that never have thoughts of enlisting. it just gives them demented ideas to try out on other humans. I have seen this first hand.
Prove it.
There are millions of people who play these violent games that never have thoughts of enlisting. it just gives them demented ideas to try out on other humans. I have seen this first hand.
Prove it.
So what I'm wondering is - what happend to that 'service an duty to country'?
Some countries have to actively defend their territory from invaders. We aren't really one of those; no one has launched a credible invasion of US territory for at least sixty years.
We don't use our military to defend the United States. We use it as a tool of foreign policy.
If you're OK with that, and you consider it your duty to place yourself at the disposal of the President of the United States for deployment to some sovereign nation for the purpose of overthrowing their stable existing government and replacing it with chaos, then you should sign right up, go over there and become a war hero, and come back and talk about duty and honor and service for the rest of your life, confusing defense of the United States with implementation of an imperialist foreign policy.
Some of us, like a lot of people anywhere, would be perfectly willing to sign up if we were seriously under threat, but prefer not to get involved in things like Chimpy and Dick's Excellent Adventure.
So what I'm wondering is - what happend to that 'service an duty to country'?
Some countries have to actively defend their territory from invaders. We aren't really one of those; no one has launched a credible invasion of US territory for at least sixty years.
We don't use our military to defend the United States. We use it as a tool of foreign policy.
If you're OK with that, and you consider it your duty to place yourself at the disposal of the President of the United States for deployment to some sovereign nation for the purpose of overthrowing their stable existing government and replacing it with chaos, then you should sign right up, go over there and become a war hero, and come back and talk about duty and honor and service for the rest of your life, confusing defense of the United States with implementation of an imperialist foreign policy.
Some of us, like a lot of people anywhere, would be perfectly willing to sign up if we were seriously under threat, but prefer not to get involved in things like Chimpy and Dick's Excellent Adventure.
ASS-PANTIES!!!11
ASS-PANTIES!!!11
Beware the beast, Neotheocon -- a power-hungry paradox, a Big Government Conservative. An unsettling admixture of corporatism and theocracy, he will feed on the debts of our children to fund tax breaks for the rich, yachts for the president, and social controls on our families. He will demand a bizarro-world Soviet society, where religion is inculcated and conglomerated capitalism is freed. Shun him, for he is the harbinger of fascism.
Beware the beast, Neotheocon -- a power-hungry paradox, a Big Government Conservative. An unsettling admixture of corporatism and theocracy, he will feed on the debts of our children to fund tax breaks for the rich, yachts for the president, and social controls on our families. He will demand a bizarro-world Soviet society, where religion is inculcated and conglomerated capitalism is freed. Shun him, for he is the harbinger of fascism.
There are millions of people who play these violent games that never have thoughts of enlisting. it just gives them demented ideas to try out on other humans. I have seen this first hand.
Prove it.
check ipnost
My husband is living proof. He's a Director of Information Technology. Are you so ingorant that you think the only people who play these games are people in the military or those who wish to enlist. Get out from under that rock.
There are millions of people who play these violent games that never have thoughts of enlisting. it just gives them demented ideas to try out on other humans. I have seen this first hand.
Prove it.
check ipnost
My husband is living proof. He's a Director of Information Technology. Are you so ingorant that you think the only people who play these games are people in the military or those who wish to enlist. Get out from under that rock.
ASS-PANTIES!!!11
kikikikikikiki | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 5:47 pm | #
Yeah. That's. . . uh. . . You got to use a bad word. . . wow. . . and panties. . . man. No one's ever done that !!!11 joke before. . . a million times. . . Yeah. Wow. Funny.
ASS-PANTIES!!!11
kikikikikikiki | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 5:47 pm | #
Yeah. That's. . . uh. . . You got to use a bad word. . . wow. . . and panties. . . man. No one's ever done that !!!11 joke before. . . a million times. . . Yeah. Wow. Funny.
what happend to that 'service an duty to country'?
Bush took our country into an illegal, immoral war.
what happend to that 'service an duty to country'?
Bush took our country into an illegal, immoral war.
Beware the beast, Neotheocon
For some reason, this reminds me of Roddy McDowell as Cornelius reading from the Scrolls of the Law at the end of the original and better 'Planet of the Apes' movie. 
Beware the beast, Neotheocon
For some reason, this reminds me of Roddy McDowell as Cornelius reading from the Scrolls of the Law at the end of the original and better 'Planet of the Apes' movie.
I saw this on another site, can't remember where, anti-war site, I think, "join the Army, it's just like X-box, except you die!"
I saw this on another site, can't remember where, anti-war site, I think, "join the Army, it's just like X-box, except you die!"
Madison Avenue has joyfully embraced this Administration's cult of destruction. The pure, scorched-earth, non-recourse obliteration of good things.
In one five-minute TV commercial break I saw:
- NASCAR heavy hitter Daryl Waltrip discover that the only way to retrieve tools that a neighbor has borrowed longer than he is comfortable with is to attach his Toyota Tacoma to the offender's garage door, yank it off its hinges and drag it down the street.
- A man passing through town, upon the rejection of his lame pickup line, decides to deliver a bored diner waitress from ennui by chaining his pickup to said diner, rip it from its moorings and tow the whole scraping hulk to California with him.
- A rampaging rhino is wreaking havoc on Smalltown, USA and the most civic minded, heroic thing to do is to bring a Nikon to bear on the deadly menace.
To recap, in a five-minute commercial break, I saw some automobile and camera ads depicting the nonchalant destruction of real and personal property, interspersed with spots lovingly describing the inarguable manliness of alcohol consumption, followed by a loudly punctuated announcement of a firearm show at the local civic center, all to be lovingly captured on a Nikon DX2 digital SLR.
Remember the desperately stupid, small-minded jocks in high school?
They have assumed control.
Madison Avenue has joyfully embraced this Administration's cult of destruction. The pure, scorched-earth, non-recourse obliteration of good things.
In one five-minute TV commercial break I saw:
- NASCAR heavy hitter Daryl Waltrip discover that the only way to retrieve tools that a neighbor has borrowed longer than he is comfortable with is to attach his Toyota Tacoma to the offender's garage door, yank it off its hinges and drag it down the street.
- A man passing through town, upon the rejection of his lame pickup line, decides to deliver a bored diner waitress from ennui by chaining his pickup to said diner, rip it from its moorings and tow the whole scraping hulk to California with him.
- A rampaging rhino is wreaking havoc on Smalltown, USA and the most civic minded, heroic thing to do is to bring a Nikon to bear on the deadly menace.
To recap, in a five-minute commercial break, I saw some automobile and camera ads depicting the nonchalant destruction of real and personal property, interspersed with spots lovingly describing the inarguable manliness of alcohol consumption, followed by a loudly punctuated announcement of a firearm show at the local civic center, all to be lovingly captured on a Nikon DX2 digital SLR.
Remember the desperately stupid, small-minded jocks in high school?
They have assumed control.
Seems some people like spin-doctoring and fellating the status quo instead of thinking critically about the subject at hand.
For constant sidetracking and childish insults, come to Eschaton. For intelligent disucssion, find another board.
Seems some people like spin-doctoring and fellating the status quo instead of thinking critically about the subject at hand.
For constant sidetracking and childish insults, come to Eschaton. For intelligent disucssion, find another board.
Wile E. --
Dr. Zais is Dr. Rove.
Wile E. --
Dr. Zais is Dr. Rove.
Rock me Dr. Zaius.
Rock me Dr. Zaius.
"I've always kinda felt, that by being in the military for so long, doing the real thing (with real weapons systems)...
video games were sort of a cheat. Sort of like playing paintball.
Whats the point?"
Bless your heart, Barndog, you've hit it square. What you're seeing is the wannabe culture run amok. Our constant trolls - employers I've had - Republicans - they're all of them wannabe soldiers, playing soldier...
One of my best memories of working for A MAJOR CORPORATE ENTITY was the time we were all forced to do a teambuilding thingy, which involved playing Wild West and shooting at targets. Being opposed to the whole thing (I mean I live in the west, the one where we had people like Wyatt Earp shortcircuiting individual weaponry as a way of life), I gave my turn over to my boss, USMC, '64, grunt, VietNam. -His- boss, the very model of wannabe-ism was just so tickled for he'd scored 2 out of 5 or something, making the gun go BOOM! My boss, who'd recently been ill and whose eyes were playing him up, walked up, covered one eye and took 5 for 5. Of course he did. Even at 55, OF COURSE HE DID. But the wannabe was angry, so angry that he wanted to prove his manhood some other way, any other way that he could find.
The wannabes. Death to everything they touch.
"I've always kinda felt, that by being in the military for so long, doing the real thing (with real weapons systems)...
video games were sort of a cheat. Sort of like playing paintball.
Whats the point?"
Bless your heart, Barndog, you've hit it square. What you're seeing is the wannabe culture run amok. Our constant trolls - employers I've had - Republicans - they're all of them wannabe soldiers, playing soldier...
One of my best memories of working for A MAJOR CORPORATE ENTITY was the time we were all forced to do a teambuilding thingy, which involved playing Wild West and shooting at targets. Being opposed to the whole thing (I mean I live in the west, the one where we had people like Wyatt Earp shortcircuiting individual weaponry as a way of life), I gave my turn over to my boss, USMC, '64, grunt, VietNam. -His- boss, the very model of wannabe-ism was just so tickled for he'd scored 2 out of 5 or something, making the gun go BOOM! My boss, who'd recently been ill and whose eyes were playing him up, walked up, covered one eye and took 5 for 5. Of course he did. Even at 55, OF COURSE HE DID. But the wannabe was angry, so angry that he wanted to prove his manhood some other way, any other way that he could find.
The wannabes. Death to everything they touch.
That's serving your country by holding the fuckers accountable for their actions. At every turn.
Only kind of service this democratic republic should expect from its citizens.
The rest is what we do for ourselves, and each other.
That's serving your country by holding the fuckers accountable for their actions. At every turn.
Only kind of service this democratic republic should expect from its citizens.
The rest is what we do for ourselves, and each other.
Nothing wrong with video games. What is lacking is supervision for lending context.
When I was a kid, I played Army and Cowboy/Indian. Innocent and totally without an appreciation that what we emulated, in real life had horrible consequences.
My parents didn't pull me over at 6 or 7 and say "hey, you are acting out the slaughter of a human being".
But as I grew older, we did talk, coupled with history to a point that I understood this. My dad was a military lifer.
I do not think these kids have that context. Heck, as pointed by the wannabeisms above, many adults do not have that. They have not been introduced to the separation of fantasy and reality. But it isn't just paint ball or video games, it falls into the big truck/small man syndrome and a thousand other small acts to create the myth of having a brass set. Football is the same, it has absolutely no life implications, but we have allowed it to become the ultimate test of courage and virility.
Nothing wrong with video games. What is lacking is supervision for lending context.
When I was a kid, I played Army and Cowboy/Indian. Innocent and totally without an appreciation that what we emulated, in real life had horrible consequences.
My parents didn't pull me over at 6 or 7 and say "hey, you are acting out the slaughter of a human being".
But as I grew older, we did talk, coupled with history to a point that I understood this. My dad was a military lifer.
I do not think these kids have that context. Heck, as pointed by the wannabeisms above, many adults do not have that. They have not been introduced to the separation of fantasy and reality. But it isn't just paint ball or video games, it falls into the big truck/small man syndrome and a thousand other small acts to create the myth of having a brass set. Football is the same, it has absolutely no life implications, but we have allowed it to become the ultimate test of courage and virility.
"Sometimes my barbies were the sultan's sex slaves." Tena
Me too! Where the hell does a 10-yr old get that! Oh, why do I ask, Jung would know.
"Sometimes my barbies were the sultan's sex slaves." Tena
Me too! Where the hell does a 10-yr old get that! Oh, why do I ask, Jung would know.
EkCenTrik - " I do not think these kids have that context"
I think the entire culture lacks context any more, if that makes any sense. We started specializing madly in the 70's. The idea of the big picture kind of disappeared, I think.
That may just be my singular impression and have more to do with recreational substances than real life.
EkCenTrik - " I do not think these kids have that context"
I think the entire culture lacks context any more, if that makes any sense. We started specializing madly in the 70's. The idea of the big picture kind of disappeared, I think.
That may just be my singular impression and have more to do with recreational substances than real life.
Peaches - It wasn't that I really knew the details of what the sultan's sex slaves were doing, but obviously my imagination was trending in that direction.
Peaches - It wasn't that I really knew the details of what the sultan's sex slaves were doing, but obviously my imagination was trending in that direction.
One last thing to bring up. Dennis Miller, back when he was sane, made a comment that if you banned all intoxicants, some people would stand in their yard and spin around until they were hallucinating. You can't change that.
Same thing. You think people will stop having bad thoughts about doing bad things if only we reduced the amount of violence they saw on TV or videogames or movies?
Dream on. I'd like someone to come up with some form of entertainment that didn't involve violence in some part at some point, often in a positive light.
Pretending that violence isn't something humans do is pure fantasy.
One last thing to bring up. Dennis Miller, back when he was sane, made a comment that if you banned all intoxicants, some people would stand in their yard and spin around until they were hallucinating. You can't change that.
Same thing. You think people will stop having bad thoughts about doing bad things if only we reduced the amount of violence they saw on TV or videogames or movies?
Dream on. I'd like someone to come up with some form of entertainment that didn't involve violence in some part at some point, often in a positive light.
Pretending that violence isn't something humans do is pure fantasy.
EkCenTrik - " I do not think these kids have that context"
BINGO!
EkCenTrik - " I do not think these kids have that context"
BINGO!
Dream on. I'd like someone to come up with some form of entertainment that didn't involve violence in some part at some point
That would be reading a book with my child. We have literally hundreds of books that do not include one violent thing. It does take some thinking but there are activities that do not include violence.
Dream on. I'd like someone to come up with some form of entertainment that didn't involve violence in some part at some point
That would be reading a book with my child. We have literally hundreds of books that do not include one violent thing. It does take some thinking but there are activities that do not include violence.
Dream on. I'd like someone to come up with some form of entertainment that didn't involve violence in some part at some point
SIMS. The most popular computer game ever, or so I understand.
Poetry. Many novels (some have none at all; some use it as a necessary part of the reality of the story, not as "entertainment" as such). Shakespearean comedies (not even much slapstick).
I could go on....
Dream on. I'd like someone to come up with some form of entertainment that didn't involve violence in some part at some point
SIMS. The most popular computer game ever, or so I understand.
Poetry. Many novels (some have none at all; some use it as a necessary part of the reality of the story, not as "entertainment" as such). Shakespearean comedies (not even much slapstick).
I could go on....
"started specializing madly in the 70'"
I agree with you, but could you expand on the line above, I think I know what you meant, but it would be interesting to see your views.
"started specializing madly in the 70'"
I agree with you, but could you expand on the line above, I think I know what you meant, but it would be interesting to see your views.
For the record, many of the first person shooters are US made. Doom comes from
id, a Texas company. Half-Live is from Valve, based in WA. Halo is Microsoft published, etc.
That said, there are still some excellent non-violent games. Animal Crossing for the GameCube comes to mind. Still, violence sells and because it is far more palatable than (gasp!) sexual content, it won't be going away.
Sad but true.
For the record, many of the first person shooters are US made. Doom comes from
id, a Texas company. Half-Live is from Valve, based in WA. Halo is Microsoft published, etc.
That said, there are still some excellent non-violent games. Animal Crossing for the GameCube comes to mind. Still, violence sells and because it is far more palatable than (gasp!) sexual content, it won't be going away.
Sad but true.
SIMS
Innocent enough, but you can create massive cruelty in the game including putting a person in a house with no doors. (Not sure if that is true anymore, haven't played in ages) Again, to care for a digital entity without context can lead to sadistic behavior.
SIMS
Innocent enough, but you can create massive cruelty in the game including putting a person in a house with no doors. (Not sure if that is true anymore, haven't played in ages) Again, to care for a digital entity without context can lead to sadistic behavior.
Administratorte
It also takes a lot of imagination to create something non-violent. If you look at the majority of games on the market, they are formulaic. The tech expands but the creativity does not.
Administratorte
It also takes a lot of imagination to create something non-violent. If you look at the majority of games on the market, they are formulaic. The tech expands but the creativity does not.
Militaristic video games have replaced the plastic army men of my youth. My friends and I literally blew those things up with firecrackers. The violence and tactics we practiced didn't bring cause me to join the military. Why would video games do so?
Militaristic video games have replaced the plastic army men of my youth. My friends and I literally blew those things up with firecrackers. The violence and tactics we practiced didn't bring cause me to join the military. Why would video games do so?
Anyone catch the Dallas/Chicago game on Thanksgiving day? I watched part of it, as I still have a vestigal interest in the game. However, the football game was incidental to a 3-1/2 hour celebration of militarism.
This has been going on a long time (I recall players gathering in prayer at the 50-yard line back during Gulf War I). But it's been raised up a notch this year. And maybe it's especially difficult to watch knowing the U.S. military is involved in a disasterous war.
Anyone catch the Dallas/Chicago game on Thanksgiving day? I watched part of it, as I still have a vestigal interest in the game. However, the football game was incidental to a 3-1/2 hour celebration of militarism.
This has been going on a long time (I recall players gathering in prayer at the 50-yard line back during Gulf War I). But it's been raised up a notch this year. And maybe it's especially difficult to watch knowing the U.S. military is involved in a disasterous war.
Tena, Haloscan ate my reply post! I can't pull together what I said, but, thanks for the reply (I'm two glasses of wine later). However, I want to post a laudatory reply to you and RMJ. Thank you both for your ongoing commentary: both of you are a wonderful gift in this desert.
Tena, Haloscan ate my reply post! I can't pull together what I said, but, thanks for the reply (I'm two glasses of wine later). However, I want to post a laudatory reply to you and RMJ. Thank you both for your ongoing commentary: both of you are a wonderful gift in this desert.
Tena, Haloscan ate my reply post! I can't pull together what I said, but, thanks for the reply (I'm two glasses of wine later). However, I want to post a laudatory reply to you and RMJ. Thank you both for your ongoing commentary: both of you are a wonderful gift in this desert.
Tena, Haloscan ate my reply post! I can't pull together what I said, but, thanks for the reply (I'm two glasses of wine later). However, I want to post a laudatory reply to you and RMJ. Thank you both for your ongoing commentary: both of you are a wonderful gift in this desert.
I enjoy playing video games (maybe it's because I'm 13, and it's just fun), but IMHO, I am disgusted that the Army decided to use America's Army as a recruitment tool. It's completely realistic, except for the part about seeing your best friend get his arm blown off.
They tout all of the glories of war without all of the atrocities.
Also, it's not the game manufacturer's fault if children play violent video games, it's the parent's. They need to be more strict.
Personally, I think a non-violent video game is a nice change from the blood and guts killfests we're seeing today.
I enjoy playing video games (maybe it's because I'm 13, and it's just fun), but IMHO, I am disgusted that the Army decided to use America's Army as a recruitment tool. It's completely realistic, except for the part about seeing your best friend get his arm blown off.
They tout all of the glories of war without all of the atrocities.
Also, it's not the game manufacturer's fault if children play violent video games, it's the parent's. They need to be more strict.
Personally, I think a non-violent video game is a nice change from the blood and guts killfests we're seeing today.
I FOLLOWED THE RULES! WHATSUP WITH THE DOUBLE POSTS!
I FOLLOWED THE RULES! WHATSUP WITH THE DOUBLE POSTS!
Dream on. I'd like someone to come up with some form of entertainment that didn't involve violence in some part at some point
Music. Granted, music can be violent in terms of theme and content, but the music itself is relatively harmless. It's what you intend to say with your music. Music just exists; it's people that are scary as hell. And for the record, Dr. Ralph Stanley has killed more people, musically speaking, with his bluegass than all the gangsta rappers in the world.
EkCenTrik mentioned how one could be violent via The SIMS (a game I'm personally addicted to). Again, you have to go out of your way, more or less, to make really bad shit happen to your SIMS. Or neglectful. Otherwise, simulated life just happens as best in can. Which isn't a bad mirror for the real world, now is it?
(And as a side note, I'm sorely hacked off that a recently purchased copy of The SIMS MegaDeluxe doesn't work, dammit.)
Dream on. I'd like someone to come up with some form of entertainment that didn't involve violence in some part at some point
Music. Granted, music can be violent in terms of theme and content, but the music itself is relatively harmless. It's what you intend to say with your music. Music just exists; it's people that are scary as hell. And for the record, Dr. Ralph Stanley has killed more people, musically speaking, with his bluegass than all the gangsta rappers in the world.
EkCenTrik mentioned how one could be violent via The SIMS (a game I'm personally addicted to). Again, you have to go out of your way, more or less, to make really bad shit happen to your SIMS. Or neglectful. Otherwise, simulated life just happens as best in can. Which isn't a bad mirror for the real world, now is it?
(And as a side note, I'm sorely hacked off that a recently purchased copy of The SIMS MegaDeluxe doesn't work, dammit.)
And my still all-time favorite computer game: Ultima IV. Rather than the normal "kill the wizard/rescue the princess/quest for the magic apple", you spend the entire game on a quest to better yourself, to raise all your virtues. The later Ultima games - all great up to the horrid 8 and disappointing 9 - may've been fascinating examples of creating a functioning world, but none of 'em had the charm of IV.
Something of an eye-opener to a young lad, it was.
And my still all-time favorite computer game: Ultima IV. Rather than the normal "kill the wizard/rescue the princess/quest for the magic apple", you spend the entire game on a quest to better yourself, to raise all your virtues. The later Ultima games - all great up to the horrid 8 and disappointing 9 - may've been fascinating examples of creating a functioning world, but none of 'em had the charm of IV.
Something of an eye-opener to a young lad, it was.
You want friggin violence? You want to be driven to the very edge of self control, near arson, pillage, and possibly suicide? Try being 53, a not-very-good pianist,and a carpal-tunnel case trying to work through the Preludes and Fugues in the Well Tempered Clavicle. I leave out most of the ornaments, but it's still hell.
If Incog says he sightreads the damn things for relaxation I'll throw myself off a bridge
You want friggin violence? You want to be driven to the very edge of self control, near arson, pillage, and possibly suicide? Try being 53, a not-very-good pianist,and a carpal-tunnel case trying to work through the Preludes and Fugues in the Well Tempered Clavicle. I leave out most of the ornaments, but it's still hell.
If Incog says he sightreads the damn things for relaxation I'll throw myself off a bridge
Backslider
I was thinking SimCity as a potential if they would take out the various disasters etc.
Have always been a fan of the game, but the last iteration just lacks something. Not sure what. It just doesn't seem as fun as the original or 2000.
Have always like the world builder concept, but few ever lived up to their potential. The Sierra line allowing builds of Egypt, Rome etc were always fun, but again later iterations seemed to pale out.
Shame.
Backslider
I was thinking SimCity as a potential if they would take out the various disasters etc.
Have always been a fan of the game, but the last iteration just lacks something. Not sure what. It just doesn't seem as fun as the original or 2000.
Have always like the world builder concept, but few ever lived up to their potential. The Sierra line allowing builds of Egypt, Rome etc were always fun, but again later iterations seemed to pale out.
Shame.
Well, three things:
1) I'm really hoping that a game that says "Mature, 17+" on the front and "Blood and Gore" on the back is not referred to as a "kids' game"
2) Videogames are a $10 billion industry, with young adults--not children--as its primary audience
3) You're absolutely right, videogames are sold for a frighteningly militaristic culture, and the U.S. Army notes it as it specifically targets the gamer demographic for recruitment. It's horrifying.
And, of course, the trend you pointed out comes full circle as ads for military recruitment make themselves look more and more like video games. But please, try not to blame the industry; just like British tabloids and American movies, they consistently reflect the worst in us and pitch to the lowest common denominator. But there are always exceptions to the rule; videogame superstars, geniuses like Shigeru Miyamoto and Wil Wright have been since the beginning returning to the question of what makes a game fun, rather than what button combination will rip the other guy's spinal cord out.
(Don't forget: the best-grossing arcade game of all time is Pac-Man. The best-selling computer game of all time is The Sims, beating out previous record-holder Myst. And the best-selling videogame of all time is Pokémon. Think about that.)
Well, three things:
1) I'm really hoping that a game that says "Mature, 17+" on the front and "Blood and Gore" on the back is not referred to as a "kids' game"
2) Videogames are a $10 billion industry, with young adults--not children--as its primary audience
3) You're absolutely right, videogames are sold for a frighteningly militaristic culture, and the U.S. Army notes it as it specifically targets the gamer demographic for recruitment. It's horrifying.
And, of course, the trend you pointed out comes full circle as ads for military recruitment make themselves look more and more like video games. But please, try not to blame the industry; just like British tabloids and American movies, they consistently reflect the worst in us and pitch to the lowest common denominator. But there are always exceptions to the rule; videogame superstars, geniuses like Shigeru Miyamoto and Wil Wright have been since the beginning returning to the question of what makes a game fun, rather than what button combination will rip the other guy's spinal cord out.
(Don't forget: the best-grossing arcade game of all time is Pac-Man. The best-selling computer game of all time is The Sims, beating out previous record-holder Myst. And the best-selling videogame of all time is Pokémon. Think about that.)
This time of year we are all a little militaristic in our kick ass shopping habits. "We are celebrating our dear savior's birth. Now get the fuck out of my way before I have to knock you down."
This time of year we are all a little militaristic in our kick ass shopping habits. "We are celebrating our dear savior's birth. Now get the fuck out of my way before I have to knock you down."
I surprised no one's mentioned Clive Thompson's recent article in Slate about the subtle political message in Halo 2.
The short answer: the game's perspective switches from Master Chief to the alien Arbiter throughout, allowing you to play the enemy and mudding the "black-and-white simplicity of the average first-person shooter". Also, the collector's edition version features two handbooks, one describing the war from the human perspective and another from the Covenant's POV, including naming Master Chief's actions in the first game as "The Atrocity at Halo".
I surprised no one's mentioned Clive Thompson's recent article in Slate about the subtle political message in Halo 2.
The short answer: the game's perspective switches from Master Chief to the alien Arbiter throughout, allowing you to play the enemy and mudding the "black-and-white simplicity of the average first-person shooter". Also, the collector's edition version features two handbooks, one describing the war from the human perspective and another from the Covenant's POV, including naming Master Chief's actions in the first game as "The Atrocity at Halo".
Time out. Those video games aren't for kids... Or at least, they're not SUPPOSED to be.
Basically my only point is to remind people that video games don't always = kids.
Time out. Those video games aren't for kids... Or at least, they're not SUPPOSED to be.
Basically my only point is to remind people that video games don't always = kids.
Played Full Spectrum Warrior? It has 2 chalks of PBI (poor bloody infantry) moving through middle eastern urban landscape shooting terrarists.
Game teaches kiddies to always seek cover and send the other squad to watch for terrarists while the first squad scurries from cover to cover.
Da sarge has NYPD on his helmet (yaargh! get some muzzies!) and there is lots of swearing (I mean F*** word, a LOT).
Message - war is fun, you get to swear AND kill folks as long as you are smart enough to find good cover and outflank the enemy who really is not as smart as US Army hoo yaaah!!
Also notice the army recruiting game, America's Army...realistic rifle training, and after sitting through class room instructions (no, not joking, all in 3D) teaching you about vehicle recognition, combat medicine and others, then you get to go to combat and use it...in a VERY realistic fashion.
Message - classroom is necessary evil before your ass gets shipped overseas to kill some enemiez.
Just my $0.02
Played Full Spectrum Warrior? It has 2 chalks of PBI (poor bloody infantry) moving through middle eastern urban landscape shooting terrarists.
Game teaches kiddies to always seek cover and send the other squad to watch for terrarists while the first squad scurries from cover to cover.
Da sarge has NYPD on his helmet (yaargh! get some muzzies!) and there is lots of swearing (I mean F*** word, a LOT).
Message - war is fun, you get to swear AND kill folks as long as you are smart enough to find good cover and outflank the enemy who really is not as smart as US Army hoo yaaah!!
Also notice the army recruiting game, America's Army...realistic rifle training, and after sitting through class room instructions (no, not joking, all in 3D) teaching you about vehicle recognition, combat medicine and others, then you get to go to combat and use it...in a VERY realistic fashion.
Message - classroom is necessary evil before your ass gets shipped overseas to kill some enemiez.
Just my $0.02
Psychologically recruiting the next generation of soldiers, I suppose.
I live in a very old and quaint New York suburban village. Every year, the town has a town celebration; the village organizes a parade complete with the high school marching band, football team, cheerleaders, VFWs, local businesses, band-floats, barn animals, etc. Pure Americana - it's sight! But this year, I noticed that one of the businesses or local groups had filled its float with several children (mostly boys) dreeses in army fatigues. It made me so ill to see this display - I haven't gotten over it. We're back to the GI Joe days. God help us.
Psychologically recruiting the next generation of soldiers, I suppose.
I live in a very old and quaint New York suburban village. Every year, the town has a town celebration; the village organizes a parade complete with the high school marching band, football team, cheerleaders, VFWs, local businesses, band-floats, barn animals, etc. Pure Americana - it's sight! But this year, I noticed that one of the businesses or local groups had filled its float with several children (mostly boys) dreeses in army fatigues. It made me so ill to see this display - I haven't gotten over it. We're back to the GI Joe days. God help us.
I feel I have been trapped inside a game called "Grand Theft America" run by the Bush/Cheney empire.
I feel I have been trapped inside a game called "Grand Theft America" run by the Bush/Cheney empire.
This is pure nonsense. #1- the major market for these games are adults. #2- children have been playing "war" since the beginning of time, and know the difference between fantasy and reality. I have enjoyed these games for years, and never had the slightest desire to join up, mostly because I don't like authority, but also because I knew when it came down to it, I'd never be able to pull the trigger/drop the bomb on a real person. #3- full spectrum warrior is actually a very mild game from the POV of gore, yet penalizes very harshly for letting your people become casualties, as it should.
People have been whining about this for ages. Video games do not lead people to mindlessly join the military any more than Marylin Manson incites them to devil worship.
For more:
http://tinyurl.com/3uhxx
This is pure nonsense. #1- the major market for these games are adults. #2- children have been playing "war" since the beginning of time, and know the difference between fantasy and reality. I have enjoyed these games for years, and never had the slightest desire to join up, mostly because I don't like authority, but also because I knew when it came down to it, I'd never be able to pull the trigger/drop the bomb on a real person. #3- full spectrum warrior is actually a very mild game from the POV of gore, yet penalizes very harshly for letting your people become casualties, as it should.
People have been whining about this for ages. Video games do not lead people to mindlessly join the military any more than Marylin Manson incites them to devil worship.
For more:
http://tinyurl.com/3uhxx
A barfly once told me that 'Missile Command' was being used by the military to identify and recruit talented Americans to operate actual missile defenses!!!! (I could only hope that they were better at the real thing than the drunks were.)
Then I read--some years later--that the Army website includes a practice video game simulation of either a training piece or actual combat.
I don't know, not wanting to get anywhere near the Army's website.
A barfly once told me that 'Missile Command' was being used by the military to identify and recruit talented Americans to operate actual missile defenses!!!! (I could only hope that they were better at the real thing than the drunks were.)
Then I read--some years later--that the Army website includes a practice video game simulation of either a training piece or actual combat.
I don't know, not wanting to get anywhere near the Army's website.
i want to say here i only like the kinds of videogames where you are little hoppy bunnies looking for a smiling mushroom.
i want to say here i only like the kinds of videogames where you are little hoppy bunnies looking for a smiling mushroom.
i hate those sims games.
i thought i would like it, but it turned out to be reeeeaaaalllly boring.
i mean, i dont want to scrub my toilet in real life, why would i want to do it on the computer?
i hate those sims games.
i thought i would like it, but it turned out to be reeeeaaaalllly boring.
i mean, i dont want to scrub my toilet in real life, why would i want to do it on the computer?
Thanks for the new game, just downloaded
FSW. I already play America's Army but did not know about this one.
Thanks for the new game, just downloaded
FSW. I already play America's Army but did not know about this one.
I have to think the whole "video game as recruiting tool" question is irrelevant. I mean, that's like saying playing "Grand Theft Auto" makes kids want to go out and steal cars. Call me an optimist (sorry, it's a habit I can't break), but I still feel most kids and young adults are smart enough to discern the difference between playing a first person shoot-em-up game in the comfort of ones home and going into combat to be shot or fragged by a grenade. However, I can understand the point Thumb was trying to make; once I was watching a commercial (I believe it was for the first "Ghost Recon" game) where at the end, the ads final line was "Because Freedom Isn't Free". I couldn't help but say to myself: 'Damn guys, it's just a fucking game!" No, what concerns me more are the Army commercials which blatantly lie and portray the military experience as being different fron what it actually is. I'm sure readers out there have seen the Army commercials which hype all the cool skills and training you'll receive; the ads going so far as to show the alleged "soldiers" riding jetskis and playing golf in their "spare time". I think those ads give kids a more fraudulent sense of what it's like in the military (especially during a time of war).
I have to think the whole "video game as recruiting tool" question is irrelevant. I mean, that's like saying playing "Grand Theft Auto" makes kids want to go out and steal cars. Call me an optimist (sorry, it's a habit I can't break), but I still feel most kids and young adults are smart enough to discern the difference between playing a first person shoot-em-up game in the comfort of ones home and going into combat to be shot or fragged by a grenade. However, I can understand the point Thumb was trying to make; once I was watching a commercial (I believe it was for the first "Ghost Recon" game) where at the end, the ads final line was "Because Freedom Isn't Free". I couldn't help but say to myself: 'Damn guys, it's just a fucking game!" No, what concerns me more are the Army commercials which blatantly lie and portray the military experience as being different fron what it actually is. I'm sure readers out there have seen the Army commercials which hype all the cool skills and training you'll receive; the ads going so far as to show the alleged "soldiers" riding jetskis and playing golf in their "spare time". I think those ads give kids a more fraudulent sense of what it's like in the military (especially during a time of war).
Were all democrats so I will forgive you for digging up this loser issue again.
But if you would have made the same mistake in front of a more skeptical audience, you would have been EATEN ALIVE.
You wouldn't even get the chance to apologive for using kids in your query.
And I hate to say this because I enjoy your work, but I would also pretend that I didn't "know" you. No reason for me to go down in flames along with you.
Were all democrats so I will forgive you for digging up this loser issue again.
But if you would have made the same mistake in front of a more skeptical audience, you would have been EATEN ALIVE.
You wouldn't even get the chance to apologive for using kids in your query.
And I hate to say this because I enjoy your work, but I would also pretend that I didn't "know" you. No reason for me to go down in flames along with you.
Why are almost all games based on destroying something, usually "enemies"?
It seems to me that the technology could just as easily create games where things were built instead of destroyed."
Sim City and its progeny.
Railroad Tycoon and the waht seems like hundreds of other Tycoon games.
Why are almost all games based on destroying something, usually "enemies"?
It seems to me that the technology could just as easily create games where things were built instead of destroyed."
Sim City and its progeny.
Railroad Tycoon and the waht seems like hundreds of other Tycoon games.
Can somebody please explain what "Anthony White" is fucking talking about??
Can somebody please explain what "Anthony White" is fucking talking about??
It was directed at Thumb (That is the guys name right?) and the mistakes he made while talking about videogames.
Sorry if it came off as confusing.
It was directed at Thumb (That is the guys name right?) and the mistakes he made while talking about videogames.
Sorry if it came off as confusing.
Hecate: the Japanese video game industry was not begun, nor even conceived, until after the war had ended, and I'm sure you're just as aware as I that trying to equate prewar and postwar Japanese attitudes towards militarism would be ludicrous. A small hard right-wing does not a national character make.
Besides, the most influential figures in Japanese animation and gaming (because the latter takes its cues from the former) are anything but militarists. Watch "Gundam" and tell me it glorifies war.
Davis: you must be joking. The most popular console on both sides of the Pacific remains the PS2, so much so in Japan that saying that the ideosyncratic Gamecube is "the most japanese" is nothing short of bizarre. It's the most "Nintendo" of the lot, but "Nintendo" does not equate with Japanese gaming, although the continuing success of that type of game says a lot about how violence-agnostic most gamers are.
While MGS3 may not be selling well, FFX certainly did, and was an excellent example of the reluctant attitude towards conflict that characterizes most Japanese games lately. (That it is reluctant and not antipathic is interesting, but doesn't imply a return of militarism per se.)
Even in the west on the Xbox the attitude is more complex than that: witness the popularity of "Knights of the Old Republic" and "Fable", both games about the consequences of aggressive violence.
The GTA series might be a better example of what Hecate's talking about, but that series has always been somewhat careful to dress the violence up in dark humor and a level of unreality, as well as an "M" rating. GTA isn't going to make you go to war, however.
Hecate: the Japanese video game industry was not begun, nor even conceived, until after the war had ended, and I'm sure you're just as aware as I that trying to equate prewar and postwar Japanese attitudes towards militarism would be ludicrous. A small hard right-wing does not a national character make.
Besides, the most influential figures in Japanese animation and gaming (because the latter takes its cues from the former) are anything but militarists. Watch "Gundam" and tell me it glorifies war.
Davis: you must be joking. The most popular console on both sides of the Pacific remains the PS2, so much so in Japan that saying that the ideosyncratic Gamecube is "the most japanese" is nothing short of bizarre. It's the most "Nintendo" of the lot, but "Nintendo" does not equate with Japanese gaming, although the continuing success of that type of game says a lot about how violence-agnostic most gamers are.
While MGS3 may not be selling well, FFX certainly did, and was an excellent example of the reluctant attitude towards conflict that characterizes most Japanese games lately. (That it is reluctant and not antipathic is interesting, but doesn't imply a return of militarism per se.)
Even in the west on the Xbox the attitude is more complex than that: witness the popularity of "Knights of the Old Republic" and "Fable", both games about the consequences of aggressive violence.
The GTA series might be a better example of what Hecate's talking about, but that series has always been somewhat careful to dress the violence up in dark humor and a level of unreality, as well as an "M" rating. GTA isn't going to make you go to war, however.
Additional comment: generally, interactive gaming is like any other medium in that it necessarily predisposed to any type of story (outside of McLuhan's "medium is the message" stuff, which is far more complex than this discussion.) It includes both creation and destruction: Katamari Damacy vs. America's Army, the Sims vs Starcraft, MGS (violence-loathing) vs. Manhunt (violence-exalting).
The thing is that up until recently, it was easier to create games about destruction instead of games about creation. Destruction is the simple removal of elements- punch the guy, he goes down, he disappears. Creation is FAR more difficult- it's open ended, it requires the inclusion of elements instead of their removal, it can easily overwork and overwhelm both the gaming hardware and software.
Since game designers are seemingly bred to efficiency, they pick the easier path, as it leads to both more games and more opportunities within those limitations. You aren't wrestling with the problems of creation, so you can play around with everything else. It's interesting, though, that by far the most thought is given nowadays, even in destructive games, to the creation of unique characters with unique abilities. Both FFX and Fable are excellent examples of this- as is, oddly enough, the latest GTA game.
In short, it's nowhere near as simple as it seems.
Additional comment: generally, interactive gaming is like any other medium in that it necessarily predisposed to any type of story (outside of McLuhan's "medium is the message" stuff, which is far more complex than this discussion.) It includes both creation and destruction: Katamari Damacy vs. America's Army, the Sims vs Starcraft, MGS (violence-loathing) vs. Manhunt (violence-exalting).
The thing is that up until recently, it was easier to create games about destruction instead of games about creation. Destruction is the simple removal of elements- punch the guy, he goes down, he disappears. Creation is FAR more difficult- it's open ended, it requires the inclusion of elements instead of their removal, it can easily overwork and overwhelm both the gaming hardware and software.
Since game designers are seemingly bred to efficiency, they pick the easier path, as it leads to both more games and more opportunities within those limitations. You aren't wrestling with the problems of creation, so you can play around with everything else. It's interesting, though, that by far the most thought is given nowadays, even in destructive games, to the creation of unique characters with unique abilities. Both FFX and Fable are excellent examples of this- as is, oddly enough, the latest GTA game.
In short, it's nowhere near as simple as it seems.
Were all democrats so I will forgive you for digging up this loser issue again.
Loser issue? I just made the note that video game commercials have looked strikingly similar to military recruitment commercials and/or vice versa. I wasn't even trying to make a case that one was leading to the other. I have no idea what you're talking about.
Were all democrats so I will forgive you for digging up this loser issue again.
Loser issue? I just made the note that video game commercials have looked strikingly similar to military recruitment commercials and/or vice versa. I wasn't even trying to make a case that one was leading to the other. I have no idea what you're talking about.
One more, and then I'm done. Hecate also said "they make what sells, and violence is what sells". In Japan, that's not quite true; high-profile game designers there are more like 70's auteurs than anything else, and as I had said earlier, the prevailing attitude towards violence is much more complex than "rah rah kill kill". (The best example I can think of, actually, is the end of the classic Neo-Geo game "Metal Slug", where the conclusion to a game of shooting endless soldiers is being treated to the sight of all their comrades and widows bemoaning what you've done. Every gamer I've ever talk ed to who saw that said they felt like hell.
But the wider question is, does violence sell, and on that I'd have to ask Hecate to haul out a few stats to back it up. FPS games sell on PCs, but that's because it is about the only genre that PCs excel at over consoles, so they're pretty thick on the ground. The Sims' popularity belies that argument on a more general level. While it wasn't a sales success, the critical success of "Planescape: Torment" (a game that rather drastically rewards non-violent solutions to problems and character designs that emphasize interaction over combat) implies that "violence sells" doesn't fit.
More widely, however, it isn't violence that sells, its novelty and a strong brand. GTA3 wasn't just popular for its violence, but for the novelty of being in a "living world"... previous, equally-violent iterations of the game were only moderate sellers. Final Fantasy is popular due to a strong brand. MGS (and the PC classics "No One Lives Forever", "System Shock", and Thief") are popular due to the novelty of avoiding conflict instead of engaging in it.
("Stealth" is HUGE in modern gaming, so much so that it's a cliche.)
One more, and then I'm done. Hecate also said "they make what sells, and violence is what sells". In Japan, that's not quite true; high-profile game designers there are more like 70's auteurs than anything else, and as I had said earlier, the prevailing attitude towards violence is much more complex than "rah rah kill kill". (The best example I can think of, actually, is the end of the classic Neo-Geo game "Metal Slug", where the conclusion to a game of shooting endless soldiers is being treated to the sight of all their comrades and widows bemoaning what you've done. Every gamer I've ever talk ed to who saw that said they felt like hell.
But the wider question is, does violence sell, and on that I'd have to ask Hecate to haul out a few stats to back it up. FPS games sell on PCs, but that's because it is about the only genre that PCs excel at over consoles, so they're pretty thick on the ground. The Sims' popularity belies that argument on a more general level. While it wasn't a sales success, the critical success of "Planescape: Torment" (a game that rather drastically rewards non-violent solutions to problems and character designs that emphasize interaction over combat) implies that "violence sells" doesn't fit.
More widely, however, it isn't violence that sells, its novelty and a strong brand. GTA3 wasn't just popular for its violence, but for the novelty of being in a "living world"... previous, equally-violent iterations of the game were only moderate sellers. Final Fantasy is popular due to a strong brand. MGS (and the PC classics "No One Lives Forever", "System Shock", and Thief") are popular due to the novelty of avoiding conflict instead of engaging in it.
("Stealth" is HUGE in modern gaming, so much so that it's a cliche.)
Actually, the few Army commercials I saw this past week reminded me more of Maxwell House or Hallmark commercials more than anything, with all the sentimental outer-suburbia small town hero crapola.
Soft piano music, pictures of undtended workshops and fireman's boots waiting for the inevitable safe and heroic and dutiful return of their hands and feet, proud wives and little kids...
"Make history - goarmy.com"
Actually, the few Army commercials I saw this past week reminded me more of Maxwell House or Hallmark commercials more than anything, with all the sentimental outer-suburbia small town hero crapola.
Soft piano music, pictures of undtended workshops and fireman's boots waiting for the inevitable safe and heroic and dutiful return of their hands and feet, proud wives and little kids...
"Make history - goarmy.com"
Just jumping in here...
I loved "bang bang" games as a kid. Even took a toy gun to preschool, and was kind of weirded out by the lady in charge who acted as if I'd brought in a real gun. Hey, lady, it's just a toy.
Now I'm playing the GTA San Andreas, shooting up the place, pure violent mayhem. In a way, this is even more a dark satire of our violent world... but anyway.
My point is, I know this is fantasy. It's not dulling my outrage and horror to real violence. I don't own a gun, never fired a gun (I was pretty good at archery in college, but only shot at targets.). I've only gotten into one real fight in my life, and even then there wasn't even any bruising.
Saying that violent entertainment = real violence is just so much simplistic horse manure.
Just jumping in here...
I loved "bang bang" games as a kid. Even took a toy gun to preschool, and was kind of weirded out by the lady in charge who acted as if I'd brought in a real gun. Hey, lady, it's just a toy.
Now I'm playing the GTA San Andreas, shooting up the place, pure violent mayhem. In a way, this is even more a dark satire of our violent world... but anyway.
My point is, I know this is fantasy. It's not dulling my outrage and horror to real violence. I don't own a gun, never fired a gun (I was pretty good at archery in college, but only shot at targets.). I've only gotten into one real fight in my life, and even then there wasn't even any bruising.
Saying that violent entertainment = real violence is just so much simplistic horse manure.
Sorry, Thumb.
We who like these games get sensitive to any hint that we may be turned into Columbine Killers because of them.
Now, actual military killing being turned into a video game like experience, that's something to be concerned about.
Sorry, Thumb.
We who like these games get sensitive to any hint that we may be turned into Columbine Killers because of them.
Now, actual military killing being turned into a video game like experience, that's something to be concerned about.
Sorry, Thumb.
Nothing to apologize for. I wasn't making the claim that violent video games led to violence. Interesting that so many took it that way though.
Sorry, Thumb.
Nothing to apologize for. I wasn't making the claim that violent video games led to violence. Interesting that so many took it that way though.
I am late to this topic, so I am sorry if this was covered.
When anyone play a videogame, they are put into a pleasure state. Some peopl esay this is similar to the pleasure state of sex, but that is in fact inaccurate. It is more closely linked to the state of wonder experienced in very young children.
The overarching problem within this pleasure state, is that the mind is in an absorbent state, and those of you familiar with the findings of Maria Montessori will recognize that term.
As such, the imagery of violence is more closely internalized, learned, if you will, in a deeper and more efficient way.
Therefore, the violence contained within is not only desensitized to the overall contextural experience that the gamer is having, but violence is now linked to the sensation of pleasure. At the very least, violence has become a voyeuristic experience, instead of a moral and emotional one. At most, violence is viewed with something much less important and impactful on society than it is in actuality.
The younger the gamer, the more efficient the absorbancy of the experience. Which is why adults who compare their experiences with these high and or interactive violent games, with the experiences of those younger and younger who are subjected to these experiences, are not merely comparing apples to oranges, but apples to giant watermelons.
I am late to this topic, so I am sorry if this was covered.
When anyone play a videogame, they are put into a pleasure state. Some peopl esay this is similar to the pleasure state of sex, but that is in fact inaccurate. It is more closely linked to the state of wonder experienced in very young children.
The overarching problem within this pleasure state, is that the mind is in an absorbent state, and those of you familiar with the findings of Maria Montessori will recognize that term.
As such, the imagery of violence is more closely internalized, learned, if you will, in a deeper and more efficient way.
Therefore, the violence contained within is not only desensitized to the overall contextural experience that the gamer is having, but violence is now linked to the sensation of pleasure. At the very least, violence has become a voyeuristic experience, instead of a moral and emotional one. At most, violence is viewed with something much less important and impactful on society than it is in actuality.
The younger the gamer, the more efficient the absorbancy of the experience. Which is why adults who compare their experiences with these high and or interactive violent games, with the experiences of those younger and younger who are subjected to these experiences, are not merely comparing apples to oranges, but apples to giant watermelons.
M and Ao-rated games are NOT for kids. They are for watermelons. I mean adults. There are of course irresponsible parents who take their preteens to R-rated gory movies and buy them games like GTA3 to play.
M and Ao-rated games are NOT for kids. They are for watermelons. I mean adults. There are of course irresponsible parents who take their preteens to R-rated gory movies and buy them games like GTA3 to play.
Why are almost all games based on destroying something, usually "enemies"?
They're not. Consider the empire-building games such as Civilization III, Victoria or Europa Universalis. In each of them you have the option of starting wars, but are usually better rewarded for careful building and expansion of the economy.
Why are almost all games based on destroying something, usually "enemies"?
They're not. Consider the empire-building games such as Civilization III, Victoria or Europa Universalis. In each of them you have the option of starting wars, but are usually better rewarded for careful building and expansion of the economy.
Actually they are training us all up to become lumber jacks
Actually they are training us all up to become lumber jacks
Browse our online slots where you can play slots online and jackpot progressives for real money.
Browse our online slots where you can play slots online and jackpot progressives for real money.
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
