I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
And thank god for that. Let it hurry.
And thank god for that. Let it hurry.
first
first
Robert,
How did that happpen?
Robert,
How did that happpen?
I can't believe this is how i CHOOSE to spend my saturday night- Feguson's relevance is both scary and depressing. Maybe I should go out and get plastered with my friends after all.
I can't believe this is how i CHOOSE to spend my saturday night- Feguson's relevance is both scary and depressing. Maybe I should go out and get plastered with my friends after all.
I think I've fixed it. Let's just hope your title doesn't apply to blogger!
I think I've fixed it. Let's just hope your title doesn't apply to blogger!
i'm scared; hold me.
i'm scared; hold me.
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
(i am scared)
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
(i am scared)
This would be the benevolent British empire that the Americans revolted against that they now want to recreate?? Irony is dead...
This would be the benevolent British empire that the Americans revolted against that they now want to recreate?? Irony is dead...
This would be the benevolent British empire that the Americans revolted against that they now want to recreate?? Irony is dead...
This would be the benevolent British empire that the Americans revolted against that they now want to recreate?? Irony is dead...
Ummmm..... after a while, no matter how ruthless one is, empire is untenale. Always. Always always. Rome fell, Britain fell. Or did Ferguson not finish the book?
Ummmm..... after a while, no matter how ruthless one is, empire is untenale. Always. Always always. Rome fell, Britain fell. Or did Ferguson not finish the book?
No reason why you can't get plastered with us here, chas.
No reason why you can't get plastered with us here, chas.
I think it's the center that's moving towards the fringe.
I think it's the center that's moving towards the fringe.
Okay. Anybody here sign up to be part of an empire? 'Cause I sure don't remember that part of Civics class.
Okay. Anybody here sign up to be part of an empire? 'Cause I sure don't remember that part of Civics class.
untenale = untenable. Duh.
untenale = untenable. Duh.
Yes, it will fall apart. The question is, how much worse can it get, first?
Yes, it will fall apart. The question is, how much worse can it get, first?
Please tell me you're joking. This guy is fucking insane!
Please tell me you're joking. This guy is fucking insane!
Who was The Bell Curve guy? Can we do that to this fellow?
Who was The Bell Curve guy? Can we do that to this fellow?
Me, either, filkertom. I think it's only recently that Lame Duckie has decided it would be nice to be an emperor.
Shorter George: I want to be both king and pope.
Me, either, filkertom. I think it's only recently that Lame Duckie has decided it would be nice to be an emperor.
Shorter George: I want to be both king and pope.
Do these evil-dooers have to come into our homes and tell each one of us personally that our parents must get sick and die, take our slightly older children for cannon fodder (or nukular shielding), keep our babies uneducated and only healthy enough to grow into slightly older ones (see above), and keep us as the last generation of middle class Americans before we care enought to even think about taking our ball and going home? Wow.
Do these evil-dooers have to come into our homes and tell each one of us personally that our parents must get sick and die, take our slightly older children for cannon fodder (or nukular shielding), keep our babies uneducated and only healthy enough to grow into slightly older ones (see above), and keep us as the last generation of middle class Americans before we care enought to even think about taking our ball and going home? Wow.
...be afraid...be very afraid...
...be afraid...be very afraid...
I've been deliberately & diligently avoiding reading Ferguson for years now. He always struck me as a prime exhibit in the Asshole with a Thesis wing in the International Gallery of Academic Syndromes, a sort of Fukuyama redux. And he's not exactly in my field, so I've been stalking him through reviews, 'cause I knew he'd irk me. I should read him before speculating, but what the hell, this is a blog comments section & I'm pretty much anonymous...
He's a dick. There, I've said it. That is my considered & expert opinion.
I've been deliberately & diligently avoiding reading Ferguson for years now. He always struck me as a prime exhibit in the Asshole with a Thesis wing in the International Gallery of Academic Syndromes, a sort of Fukuyama redux. And he's not exactly in my field, so I've been stalking him through reviews, 'cause I knew he'd irk me. I should read him before speculating, but what the hell, this is a blog comments section & I'm pretty much anonymous...
He's a dick. There, I've said it. That is my considered & expert opinion.
I mean, you've got your indigenous resistance, like the Goths and the Gauls and the Irish and the Algerians and such. They'll do some damage. And if you succeed in wiping them out, you get the "creolized" natives, like our own founding fathers and those in South America, who will eventually rebel against the "mother country."
No, no, I've thought about it and I gotta say... empire doesn't work, and it has little or nothing to do with the size or nature of the imperial army.
I mean, you've got your indigenous resistance, like the Goths and the Gauls and the Irish and the Algerians and such. They'll do some damage. And if you succeed in wiping them out, you get the "creolized" natives, like our own founding fathers and those in South America, who will eventually rebel against the "mother country."
No, no, I've thought about it and I gotta say... empire doesn't work, and it has little or nothing to do with the size or nature of the imperial army.
"Been there, done that." - Citizens of EVERY EMPIRE SINCE TIME IMMEMORIAL.
Brought to you by the Humans Have A Really Really Huge Learning Curve Association, in conjunction with the Those Who Forget The Past Society...
"Been there, done that." - Citizens of EVERY EMPIRE SINCE TIME IMMEMORIAL.
Brought to you by the Humans Have A Really Really Huge Learning Curve Association, in conjunction with the Those Who Forget The Past Society...
And on the home front, Wal-Mart is reporting that Christmas sales are only going to be up a measly 0.7 percent at stores open more than a year, which is far less than the 2 to 4 percent they predicted scant weeks ago.
You know, I'd say that the world's biggest retailer is being bit in the butt by ongoing "soft" (read: lousy) economic conditions. It's pretty bad when people don't even want to spend money on Wal-Mart's crap.
And on the home front, Wal-Mart is reporting that Christmas sales are only going to be up a measly 0.7 percent at stores open more than a year, which is far less than the 2 to 4 percent they predicted scant weeks ago.
You know, I'd say that the world's biggest retailer is being bit in the butt by ongoing "soft" (read: lousy) economic conditions. It's pretty bad when people don't even want to spend money on Wal-Mart's crap.
I think I've fixed it. Let's just hope your title doesn't apply to blogger!
Blogger and I are barely on speaking terms. I figure if we break it, we can just sneak away before Atrios comes back....
This would be the benevolent British empire that the Americans revolted against that they now want to recreate?? Irony is dead...
Or the benevolent British Empire Orwell experienced.
I think I've fixed it. Let's just hope your title doesn't apply to blogger!
Blogger and I are barely on speaking terms. I figure if we break it, we can just sneak away before Atrios comes back....
This would be the benevolent British empire that the Americans revolted against that they now want to recreate?? Irony is dead...
Or the benevolent British Empire Orwell experienced.
It sounds like a satirical article.
It sounds like a satirical article.
I, for one, welcome our new absolutely-fucked-in-the-head imperialist overlords.
I, for one, welcome our new absolutely-fucked-in-the-head imperialist overlords.
Sorry to take a tangent, but the title of this post reminds me of Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart. I had to read it in college, but years later I read it a second time. Good book.
It Affects You
Sorry to take a tangent, but the title of this post reminds me of Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart. I had to read it in college, but years later I read it a second time. Good book.
It Affects You
Thersites--
Your opinion seems to be shared by Grandin:
"An Oxford historian recently snatched up by Harvard after a brief stint at New York University, Ferguson has become the darling of the American media(Time magazine even designated him one of the world's most influential people.)....Like his contemporary Damien Hirst....Ferguson has smartly built his career on sensationalism, abandoning the mundane methods of his early scholarship--which focused on correspondingly dull topics such as Hamburg monetary policy--to trad in speculative counterfactuals."
The part that really got me was: "...Yale historian John Lewis Gaddis...forgave Ferguson his many factual errors [in Colossus], pronouncing him an 'imaginative scholar' whose ideas deserve 'careful consideration.'"
It's times like this I start hearing that old hymn, "O sinner man, where you gonna run to?" It's not as comforting as it should be.
Thersites--
Your opinion seems to be shared by Grandin:
"An Oxford historian recently snatched up by Harvard after a brief stint at New York University, Ferguson has become the darling of the American media(Time magazine even designated him one of the world's most influential people.)....Like his contemporary Damien Hirst....Ferguson has smartly built his career on sensationalism, abandoning the mundane methods of his early scholarship--which focused on correspondingly dull topics such as Hamburg monetary policy--to trad in speculative counterfactuals."
The part that really got me was: "...Yale historian John Lewis Gaddis...forgave Ferguson his many factual errors [in Colossus], pronouncing him an 'imaginative scholar' whose ideas deserve 'careful consideration.'"
It's times like this I start hearing that old hymn, "O sinner man, where you gonna run to?" It's not as comforting as it should be.
Awhile ago there was a story in the news about how genetic engineering can be use to create a race of brutes who would do the fighting in the wars to come. They wouldn't flinch at killing or torturing civilians, and they would have the kind of stamina none of our present day troops could match. This is not something way off in the distant future; it may be only a matter of a few years before it could be done, Certainly in our lifetime. These brutes would have such huge muscles that they would weigh 30 or 40 pounds at birth and be as strong as bulls when physically mature. No need to worry about a military draft then. Remember, we are just a "focus group." These things will come regardless of how we feel about them.
Awhile ago there was a story in the news about how genetic engineering can be use to create a race of brutes who would do the fighting in the wars to come. They wouldn't flinch at killing or torturing civilians, and they would have the kind of stamina none of our present day troops could match. This is not something way off in the distant future; it may be only a matter of a few years before it could be done, Certainly in our lifetime. These brutes would have such huge muscles that they would weigh 30 or 40 pounds at birth and be as strong as bulls when physically mature. No need to worry about a military draft then. Remember, we are just a "focus group." These things will come regardless of how we feel about them.
lean and mean? I'm already there. It takes every ounce of self control I have every day to contain my hatred of these assholes.
lean and mean? I'm already there. It takes every ounce of self control I have every day to contain my hatred of these assholes.
It sounds like a satirical article.
Proof once again, as if we needed it, that these nutcases will put satirists out of business. How does one satirize what is already through the looking glass?
It sounds like a satirical article.
Proof once again, as if we needed it, that these nutcases will put satirists out of business. How does one satirize what is already through the looking glass?
To be fair, Ferguson is a serious historian & his stuff on economic history is by all accounts topnotch. But I still look forward to continuing not reading him on a professional basis for years to come.
To be fair, Ferguson is a serious historian & his stuff on economic history is by all accounts topnotch. But I still look forward to continuing not reading him on a professional basis for years to come.
"Most of the greatest evils that man has inflicted upon man have come through people feeling quite certain about something which, in fact, was false." - Bertrand Russell
"Most of the greatest evils that man has inflicted upon man have come through people feeling quite certain about something which, in fact, was false." - Bertrand Russell
OK, this is the kind of deranged thinking that is more or less the orthodoxy for the neocons.
These people are in charge of our government.
(Do you think these people would let a silly thing like an election stand in their way? Kerry was robbed.)
Anybody see a way out of this?
????
OK, this is the kind of deranged thinking that is more or less the orthodoxy for the neocons.
These people are in charge of our government.
(Do you think these people would let a silly thing like an election stand in their way? Kerry was robbed.)
Anybody see a way out of this?
????
To be fair, Ferguson is a serious historian & his stuff on economic history is by all accounts topnotch. But I still look forward to continuing not reading him on a professional basis for years to come.
From what I'm seeing in this review (and it is, to be fair, all I know of Ferguson) he was wandered away from the former in search of the the fame and fortune that comes from being a bull-goose looney with credentials.
This kind of crap shoul be relegated to the John Birch wing of any political party. It's completely insane, and in fact, completely Roman in its crushing of all beneath the heel of "empire."
As your lovely wife noted, all empires fall. Reminded my of Walker Percy's question: we know where the Israelites are today? But what happened to the Assyrians? the Hittites? the Babylonians? (all empires, in their day).
Or, for that matter, the Romans?
Why do I suddenly recall Shelley? "My name is Ozymandias....."
To be fair, Ferguson is a serious historian & his stuff on economic history is by all accounts topnotch. But I still look forward to continuing not reading him on a professional basis for years to come.
From what I'm seeing in this review (and it is, to be fair, all I know of Ferguson) he was wandered away from the former in search of the the fame and fortune that comes from being a bull-goose looney with credentials.
This kind of crap shoul be relegated to the John Birch wing of any political party. It's completely insane, and in fact, completely Roman in its crushing of all beneath the heel of "empire."
As your lovely wife noted, all empires fall. Reminded my of Walker Percy's question: we know where the Israelites are today? But what happened to the Assyrians? the Hittites? the Babylonians? (all empires, in their day).
Or, for that matter, the Romans?
Why do I suddenly recall Shelley? "My name is Ozymandias....."
What should we do if it comes to that. Do you follow the empire? or do you die as renegades?
What should we do if it comes to that. Do you follow the empire? or do you die as renegades?
Do you follow the empire? or do you die as renegades?
A good question for Christians (if you'll pardon my saying so). Crucifixion in 1st century Rome was reserved for political prisoners, threats to the order of the empire. One reason they put up a sign: "King of the Jews."
That was how unauthorized would-be political leaders were treated by Rome.
How many "Christians" would choose that path today?
Do you follow the empire? or do you die as renegades?
A good question for Christians (if you'll pardon my saying so). Crucifixion in 1st century Rome was reserved for political prisoners, threats to the order of the empire. One reason they put up a sign: "King of the Jews."
That was how unauthorized would-be political leaders were treated by Rome.
How many "Christians" would choose that path today?
Makes one glad Bush isn't much of a reader; but he's surrounded by people who are, and who would take this half-baked crock of "thought" seriously.
I agree that this is a half-baked crock of thought. But, no matter how you try to establish an equitable society, it's always going to reorganize itself into a power hierarchy. It's just human nature. What are you going to do?
Makes one glad Bush isn't much of a reader; but he's surrounded by people who are, and who would take this half-baked crock of "thought" seriously.
I agree that this is a half-baked crock of thought. But, no matter how you try to establish an equitable society, it's always going to reorganize itself into a power hierarchy. It's just human nature. What are you going to do?
Why on earth would we want to be an empire? Sure lots of people might want that, but only until they realize that they will have to sacrifice their beer and remote control to get it.
They don't seem to have a problem sacrificing their children, but they will draw the line at the remote control and their comfy couches.
Why on earth would we want to be an empire? Sure lots of people might want that, but only until they realize that they will have to sacrifice their beer and remote control to get it.
They don't seem to have a problem sacrificing their children, but they will draw the line at the remote control and their comfy couches.
Theresites:
Great, Ferguson is the second coming of Gabriel Kolko, or Beatrix and Sydney Webb. Just what we need. NOT!
America isn't too liberal, it's too damn complacent.
Elections are stolen, dismissed as "sore loser-ism" unless it is somewhere else.
Illegal wars...dismissed, as "better there than here, and besides Saddam caused 9/11." (I swear you can lead a person to information, but I'll be damned if you can make them think!)
Religious loons wanting a new inquisition? dismissed, "Pshaw, you worry too much."
Corrupt business practice riddles the administration...dismissed "You just hate Bush."
It goes on and on, pat answers, absurd, but pat for every ailment as if none of the madness will rub off.
The inmates have control of the asylum.
Theresites:
Great, Ferguson is the second coming of Gabriel Kolko, or Beatrix and Sydney Webb. Just what we need. NOT!
America isn't too liberal, it's too damn complacent.
Elections are stolen, dismissed as "sore loser-ism" unless it is somewhere else.
Illegal wars...dismissed, as "better there than here, and besides Saddam caused 9/11." (I swear you can lead a person to information, but I'll be damned if you can make them think!)
Religious loons wanting a new inquisition? dismissed, "Pshaw, you worry too much."
Corrupt business practice riddles the administration...dismissed "You just hate Bush."
It goes on and on, pat answers, absurd, but pat for every ailment as if none of the madness will rub off.
The inmates have control of the asylum.
A couple of days ago I heard a reporter mention "Operation Plymouth Rock" referring to Fallujah? What the fuck? This is glearing colonialism being thrown about without much reaction form anyone out there in the "liberal" media. What implications - more hate coming our way.
A couple of days ago I heard a reporter mention "Operation Plymouth Rock" referring to Fallujah? What the fuck? This is glearing colonialism being thrown about without much reaction form anyone out there in the "liberal" media. What implications - more hate coming our way.
It's just human nature. What are you going to do?
Jefferson had one idea, Jesus of Nazareth (according to some Biblical scholars, chief among them in my mind, Dom Crossan) had another.
Pick a political theory. Or an ethical, moral, or religious one. And live out the consequences of your choice.
What, for example, is "human nature"? What parts of it are mutable, what parts immutable? There is enough in those questions to keep you going for a lifetime.
Be like Descartes: accept what you determined to be true. Be like Socrates: question everything. Be like Jesus of Nazareth: compassionate toward all, accepting of everyone.
What would that kind of direction tell you about human nature? And where would you go from there?
It's just human nature. What are you going to do?
Jefferson had one idea, Jesus of Nazareth (according to some Biblical scholars, chief among them in my mind, Dom Crossan) had another.
Pick a political theory. Or an ethical, moral, or religious one. And live out the consequences of your choice.
What, for example, is "human nature"? What parts of it are mutable, what parts immutable? There is enough in those questions to keep you going for a lifetime.
Be like Descartes: accept what you determined to be true. Be like Socrates: question everything. Be like Jesus of Nazareth: compassionate toward all, accepting of everyone.
What would that kind of direction tell you about human nature? And where would you go from there?
As scary as the article (actually a review) on Ferguson is, there is a far more disturbing, if not enraging article in the same Harpers issue: "Man vs. Machine Politics in Brooklyn" by Christpher Ketcham. It is a story about a guy named John O'Hara who is a populist political reformer and has been convicted of the felony of "illegal voting". He had two apartments, both in Brooklyn, and the local courts decided that the address he used to register was not his primary domicile, so they convicted and sentenced him just to shut him up. Absolutely the most sickening article about contemporary domestic politics I have ever read. The Brooklyn Democratic machine make Tom Delay seem like Mr. Rogers.
As scary as the article (actually a review) on Ferguson is, there is a far more disturbing, if not enraging article in the same Harpers issue: "Man vs. Machine Politics in Brooklyn" by Christpher Ketcham. It is a story about a guy named John O'Hara who is a populist political reformer and has been convicted of the felony of "illegal voting". He had two apartments, both in Brooklyn, and the local courts decided that the address he used to register was not his primary domicile, so they convicted and sentenced him just to shut him up. Absolutely the most sickening article about contemporary domestic politics I have ever read. The Brooklyn Democratic machine make Tom Delay seem like Mr. Rogers.
How to stop this stuff? Here's a way to start: Where-ever you are, drive to Columbus OH for the Dec. 4 recount rally at the State House, beginning at 1 pm. Greg Palast to speak.
With help from the US voters in Ukraine have demanded verification of their elecation results. Ohians are asking for nothing more. How can we call ourselves democrats (small "d") and not act. The world is watching . . .
How to stop this stuff? Here's a way to start: Where-ever you are, drive to Columbus OH for the Dec. 4 recount rally at the State House, beginning at 1 pm. Greg Palast to speak.
With help from the US voters in Ukraine have demanded verification of their elecation results. Ohians are asking for nothing more. How can we call ourselves democrats (small "d") and not act. The world is watching . . .
Our long nightmare of peace and prosperity will never return.
My post-election cable news moritorium is still in effect, but I did catch a couple of CNN b-team newsheads visibly slavering for a career-enhancing war with Iran.
We're fucked.
Our long nightmare of peace and prosperity will never return.
My post-election cable news moritorium is still in effect, but I did catch a couple of CNN b-team newsheads visibly slavering for a career-enhancing war with Iran.
We're fucked.
Ferguson's premise is utter-fucking-bullshit.
Howard Dean for Chair of the DNC--
Time to kick some neocon butt.
And than candy ass Wolf Blitzer can shove his so-called journalism right up his ass.
Ferguson's premise is utter-fucking-bullshit.
Howard Dean for Chair of the DNC--
Time to kick some neocon butt.
And than candy ass Wolf Blitzer can shove his so-called journalism right up his ass.
Lol, NTodd, didn't you get flamed elsewhere for using the "I welcome the * overlords" template?
How long before the Chimperor starts to have National Guardsman about to be shipped to Iraq gather in a stadium and chant to his "Our Leader" billboard, "We who are about to die, salute you!"
Lol, NTodd, didn't you get flamed elsewhere for using the "I welcome the * overlords" template?
How long before the Chimperor starts to have National Guardsman about to be shipped to Iraq gather in a stadium and chant to his "Our Leader" billboard, "We who are about to die, salute you!"
Correction - it wasn't Fallujah, it was the area north of Bagdad. Operation Plymouth Rock - who's the culprit. Idiot.
Correction - it wasn't Fallujah, it was the area north of Bagdad. Operation Plymouth Rock - who's the culprit. Idiot.
"Why on earth would we want to be an empire? Sure lots of people might want that, but only until they realize that they will have to sacrifice their beer and remote control to get it."
Those who push for empire will convince you that your choice is between death by terrorism, and a belching cornucopia of beer and remote controls.
Never forget, not everyone in your "democracy" though the right side won the civil war. The slave-owners want their slaves back.
.
"Why on earth would we want to be an empire? Sure lots of people might want that, but only until they realize that they will have to sacrifice their beer and remote control to get it."
Those who push for empire will convince you that your choice is between death by terrorism, and a belching cornucopia of beer and remote controls.
Never forget, not everyone in your "democracy" though the right side won the civil war. The slave-owners want their slaves back.
.
RMJ,
Oh, I agree. I'm just saying, well, that there's an interesting dstinction between Ferguson &, say, Ann Coulter. In England at least they make you publish a serious book before you start in with the nutty shit.
And Ferguson was critical of Iraq, IIRC--not the idea of it, mind, but the execution. "no, no, chaps! That's not cricket!"
And again, here he had a point; it really would be better if we're trying to be an imperial power for us to just fucking admit it, try to convert the heathens, impose martial law, humilate the natives on purpose instead of this halfassed bumbling crap we're doing now. Oh, it would still be immoral and disastrous in th long term, but at least it wouldn't be incompetent.
I mean, enough of this fake "freedom is on the march" bullcrap. Do we want to be an empire, or not? We could at least stop pretending.
RMJ,
Oh, I agree. I'm just saying, well, that there's an interesting dstinction between Ferguson &, say, Ann Coulter. In England at least they make you publish a serious book before you start in with the nutty shit.
And Ferguson was critical of Iraq, IIRC--not the idea of it, mind, but the execution. "no, no, chaps! That's not cricket!"
And again, here he had a point; it really would be better if we're trying to be an imperial power for us to just fucking admit it, try to convert the heathens, impose martial law, humilate the natives on purpose instead of this halfassed bumbling crap we're doing now. Oh, it would still be immoral and disastrous in th long term, but at least it wouldn't be incompetent.
I mean, enough of this fake "freedom is on the march" bullcrap. Do we want to be an empire, or not? We could at least stop pretending.
Ummmm..... after a while, no matter how ruthless one is, empire is untenale. Always. Always always. Rome fell, Britain fell. Or did Ferguson not finish the book?
NYMary
Yhe resources of the imperial country can never be enough. The citizens are asked to much of and it won't fly on 51%.
OK, this is the kind of deranged thinking that is more or less the orthodoxy for the neocons.
These people are in charge of our government.
Jay-bot
and there we are
There is no way out, when the shit finally hits the fan, (what's that smell) and the average American gets a clue things will change. When that will be, that tipping point, I think will far late to avoid bad repercussions.
.
Ummmm..... after a while, no matter how ruthless one is, empire is untenale. Always. Always always. Rome fell, Britain fell. Or did Ferguson not finish the book?
NYMary
Yhe resources of the imperial country can never be enough. The citizens are asked to much of and it won't fly on 51%.
OK, this is the kind of deranged thinking that is more or less the orthodoxy for the neocons.
These people are in charge of our government.
Jay-bot
and there we are
There is no way out, when the shit finally hits the fan, (what's that smell) and the average American gets a clue things will change. When that will be, that tipping point, I think will far late to avoid bad repercussions.
.
They should have called it Operation Turkey Shoot.
They should have called it Operation Turkey Shoot.
Seems pretty clear to me - according to Ferguson, the Price of American Empire is American Democracy.
Seems pretty clear to me - according to Ferguson, the Price of American Empire is American Democracy.
I'm surprised that there are so many who don't take this seriously. Go to www.informationclearinghouse.info/
Read the PNAC stuff.
I'm surprised that there are so many who don't take this seriously. Go to www.informationclearinghouse.info/
Read the PNAC stuff.
Should we assume Mr. Ferguson is completely and utterly unaware of the history of the Highland Clearances in Scotland as well as the history of the land laws there?
Should we assume Mr. Ferguson is completely and utterly unaware of the history of the Highland Clearances in Scotland as well as the history of the land laws there?
What is Ferguson's background?
What is Ferguson's background?
I read that article...and I wonder if the Chinese and the Saudis would really bankroll an American empire...
I read that article...and I wonder if the Chinese and the Saudis would really bankroll an American empire...
I mean, enough of this fake "freedom is on the march" bullcrap. Do we want to be an empire, or not? We could at least stop pretending.
Let's at least stop the pretense that European empires and colonial powers were not built on racism.
Which is the only way to justify the brutality encouraged (apparently) by Ferguson. "Master" and "subject" (the nicer term for "slave") didn't carry racial overtones in Roman times and before. But it's impossible to ignore that now. All "modern" (i.e., since the 19th century) empires and colonial settlements have been vindicated on the basis of white European superiority (the Romans at least only thought they were bringing civilization to the as yet uncivilized. We tend to see it as bringing salvation to the benighted, and those people in need of such help are not "white Europans").
Which, yes, brings Christianity back into the mix. But if we're going to acknowledged our empire, we have to acknowledge its basis, too; and not just justify it on economic grounds (which, come to think of it, was the basis of Our Mr. Brooks' column yesterday; or today, rather).
I mean, enough of this fake "freedom is on the march" bullcrap. Do we want to be an empire, or not? We could at least stop pretending.
Let's at least stop the pretense that European empires and colonial powers were not built on racism.
Which is the only way to justify the brutality encouraged (apparently) by Ferguson. "Master" and "subject" (the nicer term for "slave") didn't carry racial overtones in Roman times and before. But it's impossible to ignore that now. All "modern" (i.e., since the 19th century) empires and colonial settlements have been vindicated on the basis of white European superiority (the Romans at least only thought they were bringing civilization to the as yet uncivilized. We tend to see it as bringing salvation to the benighted, and those people in need of such help are not "white Europans").
Which, yes, brings Christianity back into the mix. But if we're going to acknowledged our empire, we have to acknowledge its basis, too; and not just justify it on economic grounds (which, come to think of it, was the basis of Our Mr. Brooks' column yesterday; or today, rather).
"Ferguson is especially enthusiastic that African Americans might become 'the Celts of the American Empire.' And once he dispense with what here passes for social democracy, he sets his sights on political democracy. Successful empires, Ferguson writes, require 'the resolve of the masters and the consent of the subjects.'"
This is some of the SCARIEST, MOST INSANE BULLSHIT I have ever heard. Ferguson hasn't got a fucking CLUE. The "Celts" will cut his goddamn THROAT.
Plunging toward the dark ages faster than anyone realizes, we are. Only the earth itself will stop us, and it just might.
"Ferguson is especially enthusiastic that African Americans might become 'the Celts of the American Empire.' And once he dispense with what here passes for social democracy, he sets his sights on political democracy. Successful empires, Ferguson writes, require 'the resolve of the masters and the consent of the subjects.'"
This is some of the SCARIEST, MOST INSANE BULLSHIT I have ever heard. Ferguson hasn't got a fucking CLUE. The "Celts" will cut his goddamn THROAT.
Plunging toward the dark ages faster than anyone realizes, we are. Only the earth itself will stop us, and it just might.
Do you really think there is a tipping point, that Americans will get a clue? I am getting depressed again, just like Nov. 3.
Something else I don't get: I see that the average joe and jane have been duped, for many reasons, many understandable. They are busy putting food on their families, etc. But how do the new ruling class come to the conclusion that what they are doing is good for them in the long run? How can capitalism thrive with no middle class? How can they think that large numbers of people with nothing left to lose (which is where this is going) are not incredibly dangerous to their own futures? Can someone splain it to me?
Do you really think there is a tipping point, that Americans will get a clue? I am getting depressed again, just like Nov. 3.
Something else I don't get: I see that the average joe and jane have been duped, for many reasons, many understandable. They are busy putting food on their families, etc. But how do the new ruling class come to the conclusion that what they are doing is good for them in the long run? How can capitalism thrive with no middle class? How can they think that large numbers of people with nothing left to lose (which is where this is going) are not incredibly dangerous to their own futures? Can someone splain it to me?
RMJ,
Do you have any sense when the whole "descendants of Ham" thing came into play re: political and/or economic subjugation based on race? I'm curious.
RMJ,
Do you have any sense when the whole "descendants of Ham" thing came into play re: political and/or economic subjugation based on race? I'm curious.
Seems pretty clear to me - according to Ferguson, the Price of American Empire is American Democracy. - papawasarollingstone
You nailed it, but, shit that's a depressing thought.
Seems pretty clear to me - according to Ferguson, the Price of American Empire is American Democracy. - papawasarollingstone
You nailed it, but, shit that's a depressing thought.
Wishful,
In a sort of Freudian "identifying with the aggressor" kind of behavior, I gather the wholly disenfranchised will attach themselves to power, ideally by serving in the imperial army. If I understand this all correctly, that is. "Hey! I've got no house or job or future for my kids, but at least I'm not Iraqi!" Or something like that.
Wishful,
In a sort of Freudian "identifying with the aggressor" kind of behavior, I gather the wholly disenfranchised will attach themselves to power, ideally by serving in the imperial army. If I understand this all correctly, that is. "Hey! I've got no house or job or future for my kids, but at least I'm not Iraqi!" Or something like that.
Pax Americana is an inevitable part of the path towards America's fall.
Much like a certain Europian nation I won't name, they went to war because they were economically unsound. They used propaganda to fire up the masses, and tossed around the idea that they were following God's plan.
They found enemies to demonize at home and abroad just a Siegmund Freud described in his thesis of war.
And in today's society one must wonder how long we will be allowed before we are rounded up and questioned. Because surely we are all on someone's watch list for not bowing before the great and powerful emperor.
And as the nations becomes less secure and starts to unravel due to economic reasons and war losses, expect the hatred will be turned inward onto our own people.
How long exactly have most empires lasted? And if you know that answer you'll know we are surely overdue.
Pax Americana is an inevitable part of the path towards America's fall.
Much like a certain Europian nation I won't name, they went to war because they were economically unsound. They used propaganda to fire up the masses, and tossed around the idea that they were following God's plan.
They found enemies to demonize at home and abroad just a Siegmund Freud described in his thesis of war.
And in today's society one must wonder how long we will be allowed before we are rounded up and questioned. Because surely we are all on someone's watch list for not bowing before the great and powerful emperor.
And as the nations becomes less secure and starts to unravel due to economic reasons and war losses, expect the hatred will be turned inward onto our own people.
How long exactly have most empires lasted? And if you know that answer you'll know we are surely overdue.
"The "less privileged" (Grandin's words, now) would be made: "leaner and meaner, more willing to shoulder the burdens of empire. Just as poverty drove the Irish and Scots into Britain's colonial army, 'illegal immigrants, the jobless,' and 'convicts' could help fill the ranks of Washington's imperial legion." (Apparently Jonathan Swift and Jeremiah were both wrong: poverty is good for sovereigns!). "Ferguson is especially enthusiastic that African Americans might become 'the Celts of the American Empire.'
I'm sorry, but that is some sick shit.
And I left an absolutely brilliant episode of "Prairie Home Companion" to check into the blogs.
I will say again, with a few belts under my belt, this week's "Prairie Home Companion," est non-pareille.(sp?)
"The "less privileged" (Grandin's words, now) would be made: "leaner and meaner, more willing to shoulder the burdens of empire. Just as poverty drove the Irish and Scots into Britain's colonial army, 'illegal immigrants, the jobless,' and 'convicts' could help fill the ranks of Washington's imperial legion." (Apparently Jonathan Swift and Jeremiah were both wrong: poverty is good for sovereigns!). "Ferguson is especially enthusiastic that African Americans might become 'the Celts of the American Empire.'
I'm sorry, but that is some sick shit.
And I left an absolutely brilliant episode of "Prairie Home Companion" to check into the blogs.
I will say again, with a few belts under my belt, this week's "Prairie Home Companion," est non-pareille.(sp?)
Where does "the pursuit of happiness" figure into all of this?
Just askin'.
Where does "the pursuit of happiness" figure into all of this?
Just askin'.
Do you have any sense when the whole "descendants of Ham" thing came into play re: political and/or economic subjugation based on race? I'm curious.
I'd never even considered wondering when that started until you mentioned it. I'm sure it's known, but I don't have a handle on it.
Do you have any sense when the whole "descendants of Ham" thing came into play re: political and/or economic subjugation based on race? I'm curious.
I'd never even considered wondering when that started until you mentioned it. I'm sure it's known, but I don't have a handle on it.
We can defeat this empire. I have looked at the plans for their "Death Star", and I have identified a weak point...
We can defeat this empire. I have looked at the plans for their "Death Star", and I have identified a weak point...
How are they going to control "large numbers of people with nothing left to lose?"..... Through fear of course. It's been working pretty well so far.
How are they going to control "large numbers of people with nothing left to lose?"..... Through fear of course. It's been working pretty well so far.
Jefferson had one idea, Jesus of Nazareth (according to some Biblical scholars, chief among them in my mind, Dom Crossan) had another.
High-minded ideas are one thing, actual application to human beings another. It all falls apart at first contact with power, Jesus being a possible exception.
Jefferson had one idea, Jesus of Nazareth (according to some Biblical scholars, chief among them in my mind, Dom Crossan) had another.
High-minded ideas are one thing, actual application to human beings another. It all falls apart at first contact with power, Jesus being a possible exception.
"Oh, it would still be immoral and disastrous in th long term, but at least it wouldn't be incompetent."
I disagree that it would be less "incompetent". Cetainly, it would be less hypocritical and confusing for those simpletons currently trying to justify their pillage as "freedom" (think of the codeine these freaks must be snorting to deal with the cognitive dissonance!).
But I have the feeling that whatever clothing they put their empire in, it's creation will remain a tale of utter incompetence.
Empire requires "people skills", which the US posesses none of. Even the wily Brits could only maintain Empire for as long as they did, because of the most skillful and nerve-wracking combination of "carrot" and "stick". Even then, they did a shit job and were eventually run out of town (or laughed out!)...
Imagine your average American manager-type trying to maintain Imperial dominion over a silk road spice market, or negotiate a truce between two tribal groups over a stolen pig. Or convince an Australian wheat farmer to hand over 80% of his produce to be shipped back to "Mother Washington"...
I don't think America should be pushing its luck right about now.
.
"Oh, it would still be immoral and disastrous in th long term, but at least it wouldn't be incompetent."
I disagree that it would be less "incompetent". Cetainly, it would be less hypocritical and confusing for those simpletons currently trying to justify their pillage as "freedom" (think of the codeine these freaks must be snorting to deal with the cognitive dissonance!).
But I have the feeling that whatever clothing they put their empire in, it's creation will remain a tale of utter incompetence.
Empire requires "people skills", which the US posesses none of. Even the wily Brits could only maintain Empire for as long as they did, because of the most skillful and nerve-wracking combination of "carrot" and "stick". Even then, they did a shit job and were eventually run out of town (or laughed out!)...
Imagine your average American manager-type trying to maintain Imperial dominion over a silk road spice market, or negotiate a truce between two tribal groups over a stolen pig. Or convince an Australian wheat farmer to hand over 80% of his produce to be shipped back to "Mother Washington"...
I don't think America should be pushing its luck right about now.
.
Ferguson's argument is that we (Americans) just aren't ruthless enough, yet. Which means, yes, we could have won in Vietnam, if we'd just had the belly for it. Now America faces "the growing power of liberalism" (don't you all feel better now?), which prevents us from exercising our true authority as the benevolent Empire the Romans...oh, sorry, the British, once were.
I agree with this 110%. The pansy asses are going to get their flower power butts kicked everytime, but those who kick the crap out of their opponent first, win. And as Lombardi said, winning isn't everything, its the only thing. And as Maclom X said, by any means necessary.
I don't care about whose ass were kicking as long as we stay on top.
Ferguson's argument is that we (Americans) just aren't ruthless enough, yet. Which means, yes, we could have won in Vietnam, if we'd just had the belly for it. Now America faces "the growing power of liberalism" (don't you all feel better now?), which prevents us from exercising our true authority as the benevolent Empire the Romans...oh, sorry, the British, once were.
I agree with this 110%. The pansy asses are going to get their flower power butts kicked everytime, but those who kick the crap out of their opponent first, win. And as Lombardi said, winning isn't everything, its the only thing. And as Maclom X said, by any means necessary.
I don't care about whose ass were kicking as long as we stay on top.
Has anyone noticed how the media has been announcing a "fabulous" economic progress next year, especially for the new college graduates? Didi you know "they" expect a 20% increase in jobs for newly graduated college students? Did you hear them say that at least 7 out of 10 college grads will see a salary increase next year? And that the economy is so robust it's going to explode???? I am so sick of their lies - they are trying to influence people's xmas shopping - spend more!!!! We are doing great!!! It's the age of prosperity again!!!
Let's see how many Americans believe the bullshit.
Has anyone noticed how the media has been announcing a "fabulous" economic progress next year, especially for the new college graduates? Didi you know "they" expect a 20% increase in jobs for newly graduated college students? Did you hear them say that at least 7 out of 10 college grads will see a salary increase next year? And that the economy is so robust it's going to explode???? I am so sick of their lies - they are trying to influence people's xmas shopping - spend more!!!! We are doing great!!! It's the age of prosperity again!!!
Let's see how many Americans believe the bullshit.
RMJ,
I see the issue, but not the answer, here.
It illumines the peculiar manner in which Genesis 9 was read by southern proslavery intellectuals (particularly between 1830 and 1860). And it suggests how this distinctive chapter in the history of biblical interpretation confirms the centrality of honor in the proslavery southern mind while casting doubt on the view that Old South racism can be understood primarily as projection of white sexual fears and fantasies.
RMJ,
I see the issue, but not the answer, here.
It illumines the peculiar manner in which Genesis 9 was read by southern proslavery intellectuals (particularly between 1830 and 1860). And it suggests how this distinctive chapter in the history of biblical interpretation confirms the centrality of honor in the proslavery southern mind while casting doubt on the view that Old South racism can be understood primarily as projection of white sexual fears and fantasies.
I love this thread.
This needs to be talked about, a noise needs to be being made.
For so long it's seemed that the neocons objectives and methods, where under the radar. They give idealism a bad name.
.
I love this thread.
This needs to be talked about, a noise needs to be being made.
For so long it's seemed that the neocons objectives and methods, where under the radar. They give idealism a bad name.
.
The "Celts" will cut his goddamn THROAT.
Well, of the various "Celtic" peoples, in the modern period only the Irish ended up causing the Empire detectable headaches. And with an even marginally more sophisticated, ruthless, & thoughtful approach to the "Irish problem," there wouldn't have been an Irish problem.
No, for some diabolical supergenuius operating on the principle of the enlightened benefit of all humanity, Ferguson has laid out a terrific roadmap.
Kind of explains why he's not in politics, dunnit?
The "Celts" will cut his goddamn THROAT.
Well, of the various "Celtic" peoples, in the modern period only the Irish ended up causing the Empire detectable headaches. And with an even marginally more sophisticated, ruthless, & thoughtful approach to the "Irish problem," there wouldn't have been an Irish problem.
No, for some diabolical supergenuius operating on the principle of the enlightened benefit of all humanity, Ferguson has laid out a terrific roadmap.
Kind of explains why he's not in politics, dunnit?
Empire requires "people skills", which the US posesses none of. Even the wily Brits could only maintain Empire for as long as they did, because of the most skillful and nerve-wracking combination of "carrot" and "stick". Even then, they did a shit job and were eventually run out of town (or laughed out!)...
Empire requires that you kick the crap out of those you are in charge of, take no prisoners, and keep them quaking in fear.
Empire requires "people skills", which the US posesses none of. Even the wily Brits could only maintain Empire for as long as they did, because of the most skillful and nerve-wracking combination of "carrot" and "stick". Even then, they did a shit job and were eventually run out of town (or laughed out!)...
Empire requires that you kick the crap out of those you are in charge of, take no prisoners, and keep them quaking in fear.
"...Yale historian John Lewis Gaddis...forgave Ferguson his many factual errors [in Colossus], pronouncing him an 'imaginative scholar' whose ideas deserve 'careful consideration.'"
Carlos Castenada without the peyote?
"Speculative Counterfactualism". I love it. This is the kind of bullshit the Academic Right is always dumping on the Academic Left about, only this time it's one of theirs.
"...Yale historian John Lewis Gaddis...forgave Ferguson his many factual errors [in Colossus], pronouncing him an 'imaginative scholar' whose ideas deserve 'careful consideration.'"
Carlos Castenada without the peyote?
"Speculative Counterfactualism". I love it. This is the kind of bullshit the Academic Right is always dumping on the Academic Left about, only this time it's one of theirs.
Cartman,
Go eat some pie.
Cartman,
Go eat some pie.
The fact that Harvard recently paid a king's ransom to hire Ferguson puts the lie to the vision of a "lefty" Harvard.
The fact that Harvard recently paid a king's ransom to hire Ferguson puts the lie to the vision of a "lefty" Harvard.
well Robert.. you finally got the beat going.. excellent post.. purrhaps you just needed to relax, yes?
well Robert.. you finally got the beat going.. excellent post.. purrhaps you just needed to relax, yes?
Why would one listen to Ferguson? By his ruberic, he's from a slave race, ie he's not a born American, so he is from part of the world we will conquer, and therefore just a piece of shit destined to serve me as a Real American's bitch. Walk up to him and beat the ever-living fuck out of him, then rape his wife and burn his house down. His only response can be to fall on his knees and exalt you as his master; after all, if it was a good tactic for the English in the late 1740's, it must be good for us now. Mr. Fancypants will sing a different tune once it dawns on him that he's a modern-day coolie, and the Souther-fried Fundie set he's salaaming to as his new sahibs will gladly Deliverence his happy ass for being a furriner.
Why would one listen to Ferguson? By his ruberic, he's from a slave race, ie he's not a born American, so he is from part of the world we will conquer, and therefore just a piece of shit destined to serve me as a Real American's bitch. Walk up to him and beat the ever-living fuck out of him, then rape his wife and burn his house down. His only response can be to fall on his knees and exalt you as his master; after all, if it was a good tactic for the English in the late 1740's, it must be good for us now. Mr. Fancypants will sing a different tune once it dawns on him that he's a modern-day coolie, and the Souther-fried Fundie set he's salaaming to as his new sahibs will gladly Deliverence his happy ass for being a furriner.
Empire requires that you kick the crap out of those you are in charge of, take no prisoners, and keep them quaking in fear.
Cartman | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 11:02 pm | #
Shorter Cartman: Respect mah authoritah!
Empire requires that you kick the crap out of those you are in charge of, take no prisoners, and keep them quaking in fear.
Cartman | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 11:02 pm | #
Shorter Cartman: Respect mah authoritah!
"The "less privileged" (Grandin's words, now) would be made: "leaner and meaner, more willing to shoulder the burdens of empire. Just as poverty drove the Irish and Scots into Britain's colonial army, 'illegal immigrants, the jobless,' and 'convicts' could help fill the ranks of Washington's imperial legion." (Apparently Jonathan Swift and Jeremiah were both wrong: poverty is good for sovereigns!). "Ferguson is especially enthusiastic that African Americans might become 'the Celts of the American Empire.'
This is brilliant. A perfect plan for expanding our empire.
"The "less privileged" (Grandin's words, now) would be made: "leaner and meaner, more willing to shoulder the burdens of empire. Just as poverty drove the Irish and Scots into Britain's colonial army, 'illegal immigrants, the jobless,' and 'convicts' could help fill the ranks of Washington's imperial legion." (Apparently Jonathan Swift and Jeremiah were both wrong: poverty is good for sovereigns!). "Ferguson is especially enthusiastic that African Americans might become 'the Celts of the American Empire.'
This is brilliant. A perfect plan for expanding our empire.
Phalamir,
I wouldn't say that. The Scots took a lot of shit, but they killed a lot of people to earn the right to be white.
Phalamir,
I wouldn't say that. The Scots took a lot of shit, but they killed a lot of people to earn the right to be white.
I keep saying this. It will not last. The more I read, the more I am convinced the election was the last hurrah. On all fronts, failure is visible as a fait accompli or in process. They do not have the tenacity to hold their world view together in the plain of the real. Each act or move is one to contain the damage or loss, not to progress. We just have to hold on. The only thing I really fear is that sometime between now and the end of this president's term, we will be seen as a threat by the Soviet's or China. Then all hell breaks loose. The only thing that keeps me in check on that is a gut belief that Bush and friends will not make the end of this term. Let the impeachments begin.
I keep saying this. It will not last. The more I read, the more I am convinced the election was the last hurrah. On all fronts, failure is visible as a fait accompli or in process. They do not have the tenacity to hold their world view together in the plain of the real. Each act or move is one to contain the damage or loss, not to progress. We just have to hold on. The only thing I really fear is that sometime between now and the end of this president's term, we will be seen as a threat by the Soviet's or China. Then all hell breaks loose. The only thing that keeps me in check on that is a gut belief that Bush and friends will not make the end of this term. Let the impeachments begin.
More than physical fear, Americans tremble at the thought of giving up their material wealth. That's how they get Americans to agree. Fear of physical pain is less relevant - greed overpowers all.
More than physical fear, Americans tremble at the thought of giving up their material wealth. That's how they get Americans to agree. Fear of physical pain is less relevant - greed overpowers all.
Empire requires that you kick the crap out of those you are in charge of, take no prisoners, and keep them quaking in fear.
Because that's what Jesus would do.
Empire requires that you kick the crap out of those you are in charge of, take no prisoners, and keep them quaking in fear.
Because that's what Jesus would do.
alk up to him and beat the ever-living fuck out of him, then rape his wife and burn his house down. His only response can be to fall on his knees and exalt you as his master; after all, if it was a good tactic for the English in the late 1740's, it must be good for us now. Mr. Fancypants will sing a different tune once it dawns on him that he's a modern-day coolie, and the Souther-fried Fundie set he's salaaming to as his new sahibs will gladly Deliverence his happy ass for being a furriner.
Lookit, you are either the dominant force or the occupied population. Which would you rather be?
We got the military to take the entire planet, and we'd better do it while we have the will and the ability.
alk up to him and beat the ever-living fuck out of him, then rape his wife and burn his house down. His only response can be to fall on his knees and exalt you as his master; after all, if it was a good tactic for the English in the late 1740's, it must be good for us now. Mr. Fancypants will sing a different tune once it dawns on him that he's a modern-day coolie, and the Souther-fried Fundie set he's salaaming to as his new sahibs will gladly Deliverence his happy ass for being a furriner.
Lookit, you are either the dominant force or the occupied population. Which would you rather be?
We got the military to take the entire planet, and we'd better do it while we have the will and the ability.
By the way, GWB, pass this on to Ridge before he leaves. I miss the daily Terror alerts. What happened, did we win? Is OBL in a max security prison now? Its over right?
By the way, GWB, pass this on to Ridge before he leaves. I miss the daily Terror alerts. What happened, did we win? Is OBL in a max security prison now? Its over right?
Sorry, I won't feed it anymore.
My bad.
Sorry, I won't feed it anymore.
My bad.
Empire requires that you kick the crap out of those you are in charge of, take no prisoners, and keep them quaking in fear.
Not sustainable. Fear-driven brutalising inevitable costs more that it is ever able to generate in wealth.
This is exactly the problem the US faces in Iraq as we speak. It can't turn a profit. It doesn't have the "people skills" - diplomacy plus credibility, basically, to convince the locals that being a "voluntary" member of the United Nations of America is in their best interests.
As a result, it's status will never move from "occupier" to "Emperer". It can do all the ass-kicking it likes, but it will never be able to achieve the level of cooperation needed to get the oil flowing, by force of arms alone. Eventually, simple economics will force the US out of Iraq...
.
Empire requires that you kick the crap out of those you are in charge of, take no prisoners, and keep them quaking in fear.
Not sustainable. Fear-driven brutalising inevitable costs more that it is ever able to generate in wealth.
This is exactly the problem the US faces in Iraq as we speak. It can't turn a profit. It doesn't have the "people skills" - diplomacy plus credibility, basically, to convince the locals that being a "voluntary" member of the United Nations of America is in their best interests.
As a result, it's status will never move from "occupier" to "Emperer". It can do all the ass-kicking it likes, but it will never be able to achieve the level of cooperation needed to get the oil flowing, by force of arms alone. Eventually, simple economics will force the US out of Iraq...
.
Well then by all means get yourself over to Iraq Cartman, and start burning houses and raping wives.
Well then by all means get yourself over to Iraq Cartman, and start burning houses and raping wives.
The only thing I really fear is that sometime between now and the end of this president's term, we will be seen as a threat by the Soviet's or China. Then all hell breaks loose. The only thing that keeps me in check on that is a gut belief that Bush and friends will not make the end of this term. Let the impeachments begin.
You are a great comedian. We can kick the ass of any country on this planet, and China better mind its chow mein, otherwise we'll make dim sum outta them.
And Russia!! What a joke!!!
The only thing I really fear is that sometime between now and the end of this president's term, we will be seen as a threat by the Soviet's or China. Then all hell breaks loose. The only thing that keeps me in check on that is a gut belief that Bush and friends will not make the end of this term. Let the impeachments begin.
You are a great comedian. We can kick the ass of any country on this planet, and China better mind its chow mein, otherwise we'll make dim sum outta them.
And Russia!! What a joke!!!
It all falls apart at first contact with power, Jesus being a possible exception.
well, if you're going to give up before you start, why are we having this conversation?
It all falls apart at first contact with power, Jesus being a possible exception.
well, if you're going to give up before you start, why are we having this conversation?
We got the military to take the entire planet, and we'd better do it while we have the will and the ability.
No, we have the military force to destroy the entire planet, we don't have the military force to hold a country about the size of California.
We got the military to take the entire planet, and we'd better do it while we have the will and the ability.
No, we have the military force to destroy the entire planet, we don't have the military force to hold a country about the size of California.
This is exactly the problem the US faces in Iraq as we speak. It can't turn a profit. It doesn't have the "people skills" - diplomacy plus credibility, basically, to convince the locals that being a "voluntary" member of the United Nations of America is in their best interests.
Where do you get that? All that matters in Iraq is the oil. We should send a million troops in there, wipe out the resistence, and take the damn oil. Charge the rest of the world some ungodly amount, and we will make money.
This is exactly the problem the US faces in Iraq as we speak. It can't turn a profit. It doesn't have the "people skills" - diplomacy plus credibility, basically, to convince the locals that being a "voluntary" member of the United Nations of America is in their best interests.
Where do you get that? All that matters in Iraq is the oil. We should send a million troops in there, wipe out the resistence, and take the damn oil. Charge the rest of the world some ungodly amount, and we will make money.
EkCenTriK,
I thought I was the only one who'd noticed a suspicious, uh, leveling of the colors, despite Ohio lockdowns and tapes offering us the chance to convert to Islam!
EkCenTriK,
I thought I was the only one who'd noticed a suspicious, uh, leveling of the colors, despite Ohio lockdowns and tapes offering us the chance to convert to Islam!
Mmf. When the American Empire collapses, it's going to take civilizationas we know with it. Might as well go out in style. I'm going to rack up truly staggering levels of consumer debt, and let the fuckers try and collect. Ivory backscratchers for all!
Mmf. When the American Empire collapses, it's going to take civilizationas we know with it. Might as well go out in style. I'm going to rack up truly staggering levels of consumer debt, and let the fuckers try and collect. Ivory backscratchers for all!
Iran, North Korea, etc. Bush's bluff. There's no way he can start anything else anywhere else. He would have to draft first.
Iran, North Korea, etc. Bush's bluff. There's no way he can start anything else anywhere else. He would have to draft first.
well Robert.. you finally got the beat going.. excellent post.. purrhaps you just needed to relax, yes?
Nah, I'm happy with all of 'em.
well Robert.. you finally got the beat going.. excellent post.. purrhaps you just needed to relax, yes?
Nah, I'm happy with all of 'em.
No, we have the military force to destroy the entire planet, we don't have the military force to hold a country about the size of California.
I think I should say I support the draft and I support shipping a million soldiers to Iraq.
Draft another 10 million for other strategic needs.
No, we have the military force to destroy the entire planet, we don't have the military force to hold a country about the size of California.
I think I should say I support the draft and I support shipping a million soldiers to Iraq.
Draft another 10 million for other strategic needs.
Cartman
You are a troll right? Did you check in at the door, I didn't see your name on the Troll board.
Hecate, Tena! did you get him his guest troll badge yet?
Dang why can't people follow procedures...
Cartman
You are a troll right? Did you check in at the door, I didn't see your name on the Troll board.
Hecate, Tena! did you get him his guest troll badge yet?
Dang why can't people follow procedures...
EkCenTriK and NYMary - don't you remember Ashcroft's farewell song? He said that it was no longer necessary to elevate alert since he had done such a good job at fighting terrorism - and everything was great in the ol' USA.
EkCenTriK and NYMary - don't you remember Ashcroft's farewell song? He said that it was no longer necessary to elevate alert since he had done such a good job at fighting terrorism - and everything was great in the ol' USA.
Here's an example of the kind of "people skills" the British used in India:
Weaving cloth was to Decca what rug making was to Persia and Afghanistan. Decca, India was on the silk route and over the centuries the cloth made by the weavers there became prized by foreign traders as the finest in the world. When the British took over they wanted complete control of cloth making amoung other things. All cotton was sent to England after harvesting and Indians were forced to buy only the cloth produced in England. To some extent Indians were allowed to weave cloth for their own families use, but were not allowed to produce any cloth for sale. But many of the weavers in Decca were unable to stop practicing their art, and it was still in demand by the traders on the silk route. The British didn't like it that they were still losing business to these Indians, but they were unable to enforce their ban on weaving. The final solution? They marched their troops into Decca, rounded up all the weavers and cut their hands off. This is Empire. Empire is not built with people skills; it's built with brute force.
Here's an example of the kind of "people skills" the British used in India:
Weaving cloth was to Decca what rug making was to Persia and Afghanistan. Decca, India was on the silk route and over the centuries the cloth made by the weavers there became prized by foreign traders as the finest in the world. When the British took over they wanted complete control of cloth making amoung other things. All cotton was sent to England after harvesting and Indians were forced to buy only the cloth produced in England. To some extent Indians were allowed to weave cloth for their own families use, but were not allowed to produce any cloth for sale. But many of the weavers in Decca were unable to stop practicing their art, and it was still in demand by the traders on the silk route. The British didn't like it that they were still losing business to these Indians, but they were unable to enforce their ban on weaving. The final solution? They marched their troops into Decca, rounded up all the weavers and cut their hands off. This is Empire. Empire is not built with people skills; it's built with brute force.
Lima
Omigosh you are right. Stand down folks. Lets all head down to the local get together at the gazebo in the park, have apple pie and listen to some J.P.Souza. Anyone have a straw hat and a starched collar?
Lima
Omigosh you are right. Stand down folks. Lets all head down to the local get together at the gazebo in the park, have apple pie and listen to some J.P.Souza. Anyone have a straw hat and a starched collar?
Lima,
Oh, riiiiiiigggghhhhhtttt. Sorry.
In other news, did we all see that Britain managed to thwart a "September 11th" style attack on Canary Wharf this week? Huh. I thought there was no way to avoid such things.
Lima,
Oh, riiiiiiigggghhhhhtttt. Sorry.
In other news, did we all see that Britain managed to thwart a "September 11th" style attack on Canary Wharf this week? Huh. I thought there was no way to avoid such things.
Empire is not built with people skills; it's built with brute force.
Jerry
Jerry, you da man! That is right on the money.
Plus I'm going to seriously kick the shit out of the guy that lives across the street. He rides his Harley-Davidson penis substitute up and down the fucking street six times a day.
Empire is not built with people skills; it's built with brute force.
Jerry
Jerry, you da man! That is right on the money.
Plus I'm going to seriously kick the shit out of the guy that lives across the street. He rides his Harley-Davidson penis substitute up and down the fucking street six times a day.
Jerry,
As I recall, this was one of Gandhi's issues.
Jerry,
As I recall, this was one of Gandhi's issues.
"Lookit, you are either the dominant force or the occupied population. Which would you rather be?"
The third (and ever-growing) population you failed to mention is the "victorious partisan standing over the charred remains of a Humvee", whose stocks seem to be doing pretty well...
Before you succumb to these delusions of military granduer you might want to notice that you have made two things absolutely clear to the entire rest of the world:
1. That your "mighty" military cannot even control a third-world desert shithole wich a population and military capability smaller than New Zealand's ; and
2. That you have a hunger for attacking other countries pre-emptively.
You might want to be asking yourself who - America or the whole rest of the world - should be feeling a little nervous right about now...
.
"Lookit, you are either the dominant force or the occupied population. Which would you rather be?"
The third (and ever-growing) population you failed to mention is the "victorious partisan standing over the charred remains of a Humvee", whose stocks seem to be doing pretty well...
Before you succumb to these delusions of military granduer you might want to notice that you have made two things absolutely clear to the entire rest of the world:
1. That your "mighty" military cannot even control a third-world desert shithole wich a population and military capability smaller than New Zealand's ; and
2. That you have a hunger for attacking other countries pre-emptively.
You might want to be asking yourself who - America or the whole rest of the world - should be feeling a little nervous right about now...
.
I was temporarily convinced that we didn't require one unusually effective leader. All we needed, I thought, was a good enough leader with the support of extensive grass-roots organizations and legions of lower level leaders. We also needed, I was sure, a coherent morally outstanding message that we all could believe, work and fight for. After all, the margin was a mere 3 million voters. And we are now motivated, right?
But their capacity for destruction is bottomless. The above rational plans alone are powerless against the evil that's already begun--reductions in Head Start and Pell Grants, elimination as we know it of SS and Medicare, Medicaid in ruins, NCLB (a systematic destruction of our public education system), endless war, over 2 million incarcerated, voter supression and control of unaccountable voting machines, a have and have-not economy and on and on and on. And the second term doesn't begin till Jan 20!
Maybe an outstanding leader is our last best hope. Where is our time's Jesus, Gandhi or MLK? Until then, lets set the stage for her (or him).
I was temporarily convinced that we didn't require one unusually effective leader. All we needed, I thought, was a good enough leader with the support of extensive grass-roots organizations and legions of lower level leaders. We also needed, I was sure, a coherent morally outstanding message that we all could believe, work and fight for. After all, the margin was a mere 3 million voters. And we are now motivated, right?
But their capacity for destruction is bottomless. The above rational plans alone are powerless against the evil that's already begun--reductions in Head Start and Pell Grants, elimination as we know it of SS and Medicare, Medicaid in ruins, NCLB (a systematic destruction of our public education system), endless war, over 2 million incarcerated, voter supression and control of unaccountable voting machines, a have and have-not economy and on and on and on. And the second term doesn't begin till Jan 20!
Maybe an outstanding leader is our last best hope. Where is our time's Jesus, Gandhi or MLK? Until then, lets set the stage for her (or him).
You are a troll right? Did you check in at the door, I didn't see your name on the Troll board.
I assume a troll is someone who just posts garbage. Well, you might not like my opinions, but I gaurantee you I believe them to my core.
Or is it not allowed to hold a dissenting opinion on this board?
You are a troll right? Did you check in at the door, I didn't see your name on the Troll board.
I assume a troll is someone who just posts garbage. Well, you might not like my opinions, but I gaurantee you I believe them to my core.
Or is it not allowed to hold a dissenting opinion on this board?
Ummmm..... after a while, no matter how ruthless one is, empire is untenale. Always. Always always. Rome fell, Britain fell. Or did Ferguson not finish the book?
Rome was a Republic with an "imperium" for over four hundred years (510 - 27 BC) before it became an Empire; flash forward another five centuries before the Western half fell to barbarians in 476 BC. Byzantium, however, kept on chugging in Rome's name for another thousand years.
My point: sure, empires fall, but ours may outlast us, our children, our grandchildren, our descendents to the Nth degree. Don't confuse American empire with modern-day comparisons like the paper-thin Soviet Empire or Hitler's laughable "thousand-year" Reich. Our imperium has been long in gestation, and draws upon a foundation which is both broad and deep. It will take more than a few Vietnam-style quagmires to derail its progress.
Another thing to chew on - Rome didn't fall in the end because it was brutal, but because it wasn't brutal enough. Blame the lead pipes, blame Christianity, blame war and disease in Central Asia pushing lean and hungry future conquerors ever Westward, blame the fat and happy retired legionnaires more interested in keeping their provincial holdings than they were in preserving the honor of a too-distant capital - whatever the underlying cause(s), Rome went under because she no longer wanted the power and glory as much as her conquerors did.
That's why empire is ultimately untenable. Stop and smell the roses for so much as a second and you're a bug on history's windshield. Am I happy that it's this way? By no means. But that's how it is.
Ummmm..... after a while, no matter how ruthless one is, empire is untenale. Always. Always always. Rome fell, Britain fell. Or did Ferguson not finish the book?
Rome was a Republic with an "imperium" for over four hundred years (510 - 27 BC) before it became an Empire; flash forward another five centuries before the Western half fell to barbarians in 476 BC. Byzantium, however, kept on chugging in Rome's name for another thousand years.
My point: sure, empires fall, but ours may outlast us, our children, our grandchildren, our descendents to the Nth degree. Don't confuse American empire with modern-day comparisons like the paper-thin Soviet Empire or Hitler's laughable "thousand-year" Reich. Our imperium has been long in gestation, and draws upon a foundation which is both broad and deep. It will take more than a few Vietnam-style quagmires to derail its progress.
Another thing to chew on - Rome didn't fall in the end because it was brutal, but because it wasn't brutal enough. Blame the lead pipes, blame Christianity, blame war and disease in Central Asia pushing lean and hungry future conquerors ever Westward, blame the fat and happy retired legionnaires more interested in keeping their provincial holdings than they were in preserving the honor of a too-distant capital - whatever the underlying cause(s), Rome went under because she no longer wanted the power and glory as much as her conquerors did.
That's why empire is ultimately untenable. Stop and smell the roses for so much as a second and you're a bug on history's windshield. Am I happy that it's this way? By no means. But that's how it is.
Charge the rest of the world some ungodly amount, and we will make money.
how about we just send your big fat ass over there, and sell it for bacon?
Charge the rest of the world some ungodly amount, and we will make money.
how about we just send your big fat ass over there, and sell it for bacon?
You might want to be asking yourself who - America or the whole rest of the world - should be feeling a little nervous right about now...
If I were living overseas, I'd be nervous. America is a force to be reckoned with. Look how scared France is now.
You might want to be asking yourself who - America or the whole rest of the world - should be feeling a little nervous right about now...
If I were living overseas, I'd be nervous. America is a force to be reckoned with. Look how scared France is now.
Theres seems to be some misunderstanding of my introduction of the termm "people skills" - although I think my explanation is adequate, I reiterate that my point is that Empire only has a chance of being maintained with BOTH "people skills" AND "brutality" - the carrot and the stick.
The US posesses NONE of the former, which will doom any effort for Empire, irrespective of the quantity and ferocity of the latter.
.
Theres seems to be some misunderstanding of my introduction of the termm "people skills" - although I think my explanation is adequate, I reiterate that my point is that Empire only has a chance of being maintained with BOTH "people skills" AND "brutality" - the carrot and the stick.
The US posesses NONE of the former, which will doom any effort for Empire, irrespective of the quantity and ferocity of the latter.
.
I have a small penis, therefore I talk like a tough guy, which I'm not.
If I believed half the shit I'm spouting off I'd be in Iraq right now.
I have a small penis, therefore I talk like a tough guy, which I'm not.
If I believed half the shit I'm spouting off I'd be in Iraq right now.
I should have taken a pix last night: I was nearly driven off the road by a traffic-bully in large black truck with Bush-Cheney bumper stickers and NRA decals all over. What caught my attention was this "thing" hanging under the truck by the rear bumper. It was a sock filled with two balls just dangling! I laughed at first - a trcuk with balls. But then, it occured to me that this was a fine example of what voted for Bush. A bully in a big gasguzzler with balls.
I should have taken a pix last night: I was nearly driven off the road by a traffic-bully in large black truck with Bush-Cheney bumper stickers and NRA decals all over. What caught my attention was this "thing" hanging under the truck by the rear bumper. It was a sock filled with two balls just dangling! I laughed at first - a trcuk with balls. But then, it occured to me that this was a fine example of what voted for Bush. A bully in a big gasguzzler with balls.
There is a difference between being afraid of a machine that is thought out and capable, versus the fear of an avalanche that is choas in motion.
I really do not think from the remarks I have seen that any country of note is afraid of us in the military sense. They have far more concern if we crap out and end up in that chaos because the ripples across the planet will be huge.
There is a difference between being afraid of a machine that is thought out and capable, versus the fear of an avalanche that is choas in motion.
I really do not think from the remarks I have seen that any country of note is afraid of us in the military sense. They have far more concern if we crap out and end up in that chaos because the ripples across the planet will be huge.
oodja,
I respectfully disagree. We are repeating history at lightning pace. Just as we are repeating Vietnam in fast forward, we are also recreating the path of the Roman Empire, most especially the transition between the Republic and the Principate. (Who here doubts that Jeb is next up, if all goes well?)
Maybe September 11 was the attack of the Gauls, but in this foreshortened narrative, time is not on our side. Even if it were, we can see the trajectory of Rome, and the inherent danger in exchanging democratic ideals for imperial power.
oodja,
I respectfully disagree. We are repeating history at lightning pace. Just as we are repeating Vietnam in fast forward, we are also recreating the path of the Roman Empire, most especially the transition between the Republic and the Principate. (Who here doubts that Jeb is next up, if all goes well?)
Maybe September 11 was the attack of the Gauls, but in this foreshortened narrative, time is not on our side. Even if it were, we can see the trajectory of Rome, and the inherent danger in exchanging democratic ideals for imperial power.
"If I were living overseas, I'd be nervous. America is a force to be reckoned with."
Well then, you're an idiot. I live out here, and I can tell you, sweetheart, that nobody is quaking in fear. Quite the opposite in fact. We are basically watching what we thought was a huge military colossus flailing about with a huge soft-on that a tanker-load of viagra couldn't fix, unable to even get a few gallon of crude out of Iraq 'cos the piplines keep exploding.
All you are doing is proving to us that we have little to fear from you.
Sweetie, Sun Tzu said (paraphrased) that you should never show your hand unless it's a winning hand. The only thing in YOUR hand is a limp dick!
Yeah, Admiral, France is quaking! Ha-hahahahaha!!!!!
"If I were living overseas, I'd be nervous. America is a force to be reckoned with."
Well then, you're an idiot. I live out here, and I can tell you, sweetheart, that nobody is quaking in fear. Quite the opposite in fact. We are basically watching what we thought was a huge military colossus flailing about with a huge soft-on that a tanker-load of viagra couldn't fix, unable to even get a few gallon of crude out of Iraq 'cos the piplines keep exploding.
All you are doing is proving to us that we have little to fear from you.
Sweetie, Sun Tzu said (paraphrased) that you should never show your hand unless it's a winning hand. The only thing in YOUR hand is a limp dick!
Yeah, Admiral, France is quaking! Ha-hahahahaha!!!!!
Why, thank you, Polly Prissypants!
You are my best friend.
Why, thank you, Polly Prissypants!
You are my best friend.
Hey Cartman, post your real name, address, and phone number. I'll send it to your local recruiting office and you can go support your cause. I didn't think so chickenshit! You ain't nothing but a pussy with a dick for a brain.
Hey Cartman, post your real name, address, and phone number. I'll send it to your local recruiting office and you can go support your cause. I didn't think so chickenshit! You ain't nothing but a pussy with a dick for a brain.
Telltale, we can only hope that ALL "efforts for Empire" are doomed.
Telltale, we can only hope that ALL "efforts for Empire" are doomed.
"the title of this post reminds me of Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart."
. . . But the origin of the phrase is a peom by Yeats, The Second Coming (which fits today like a prophecy):
TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
"the title of this post reminds me of Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart."
. . . But the origin of the phrase is a peom by Yeats, The Second Coming (which fits today like a prophecy):
TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
You people are crazy. Get a life!
You people are crazy. Get a life!
John H. Farr: I do believe if it comes to it Earth will indeed do what she has to. And Celts slitting throats, most assuredly they will. metaphorically speaking of course.
Randolph the Red: I'm with you! Lets kick some neo-con butt!!
John H. Farr: I do believe if it comes to it Earth will indeed do what she has to. And Celts slitting throats, most assuredly they will. metaphorically speaking of course.
Randolph the Red: I'm with you! Lets kick some neo-con butt!!
TelltaleHeart--
I suspect France is only wondering why they considered the U.S. a hyperpower.
Rome would have swept up the remnants of Iraqi resistance months ago. Britain would have gone in with such superior force that Iraqis would now be working for London, cleaning up the pockets of resistance.
We are bogged down in Vietnam redux, proving once again our technology is no match for determination and willpower, all the while concincing ourselves that victory is "just around the corner."
The light at the end of the tunnel is the train. Again. One more burden of being an ahistorical people.
TelltaleHeart--
I suspect France is only wondering why they considered the U.S. a hyperpower.
Rome would have swept up the remnants of Iraqi resistance months ago. Britain would have gone in with such superior force that Iraqis would now be working for London, cleaning up the pockets of resistance.
We are bogged down in Vietnam redux, proving once again our technology is no match for determination and willpower, all the while concincing ourselves that victory is "just around the corner."
The light at the end of the tunnel is the train. Again. One more burden of being an ahistorical people.
Mr Jeffers - perhaps is not ahistorical that people are but merely sheepish.
Mr Jeffers - perhaps is not ahistorical that people are but merely sheepish.
niall ferguson is a seeker of fame who says things in order to be controversial, "famous," a "celebrity" historian -- just what you were looking for, right? a britney spears of the academic set.
niall ferguson is a seeker of fame who says things in order to be controversial, "famous," a "celebrity" historian -- just what you were looking for, right? a britney spears of the academic set.
Rome was a Republic with an "imperium" for over four hundred years (510 - 27 BC) before it became an Empire; flash forward another five centuries before the Western half fell to barbarians in 476 BC. Byzantium, however, kept on chugging in Rome's name for another thousand years.
Rome was the absolute power in Europe and across its span for centuries.
Since WWII, we have fought North Korea to a standstill, bailed out of Vietnam after 17 or more years of endless bloodshed, and are now bogged down in a relentless guerilla war against men armed only with car bombs, RPG's, and determination.
France once called us a "hyper-power." Would that it were true.
We are not Rome. We are not even Britain under Victoria. We are a paper tiger. And all the world, beyond the reach of CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN/FoxNews/MSNBC, surely knows that by now.
Rome was a Republic with an "imperium" for over four hundred years (510 - 27 BC) before it became an Empire; flash forward another five centuries before the Western half fell to barbarians in 476 BC. Byzantium, however, kept on chugging in Rome's name for another thousand years.
Rome was the absolute power in Europe and across its span for centuries.
Since WWII, we have fought North Korea to a standstill, bailed out of Vietnam after 17 or more years of endless bloodshed, and are now bogged down in a relentless guerilla war against men armed only with car bombs, RPG's, and determination.
France once called us a "hyper-power." Would that it were true.
We are not Rome. We are not even Britain under Victoria. We are a paper tiger. And all the world, beyond the reach of CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN/FoxNews/MSNBC, surely knows that by now.
Jerry wrote: "Telltale, we can only hope that ALL 'efforts for Empire' are doomed."
Amen to that! I very much like the America, even matress-rooters like Cartman, but the US is too heavily-armed to live in cuckoo-land much longer. One way or the other, reality beckons!
Jerry wrote: "Telltale, we can only hope that ALL 'efforts for Empire' are doomed."
Amen to that! I very much like the America, even matress-rooters like Cartman, but the US is too heavily-armed to live in cuckoo-land much longer. One way or the other, reality beckons!
I saw Ferguson speak at NYU several years ago. I believe it was a conference on the role of the IMF in globalization. He comes off as a Brit. basking in colonizer's myth of the good old days when God and Queen were saving the darker world with victorian values. If that was not and offensive enough, he continued to make his main point that british colonization was the economic foundation upon which the modern world resides. The fall of the empire and subsequent revolutions for independence throughout the colonial world allowed weak and corrupt regimes to operate with unpredictable, often violent and potentially destablizing results for the interests of the "first world". This thesis has the capacity to convince the causal reader. However, his thesis is historical hackery. The entire post colonial world was the stage of the hot war that raged beneath the industrialized world's headlines of the cold war. After the cold war thrawed, throught the 80's, the convienent dicators of the post-colonial world with their statist economic policies became both a normative and economic hindrance to free flow of global capital necessitated by the rapidly morphing capitalist system. The new global governmentality became the IMF policies of structural adjustment: high interest rates and debt, low taxes and tarrifs, leading to the creation of export driven economies feeding the first world with cheap consumer goods. While racking the third world with unsustainable debt and dependence on external speculative capital flows. In other words, intregration in to the global capitalist system acts as a recolonizing form of governance. As Marx pointed out in the statement "all that is solid melts into air" unrestrained capital will eat itself, starting with the sovereignty of the nation state, not to mention social structures and traditions of localites. So what ferguson is getting at is America needs to reassert the power of the sovereign nation-state, in this case American empire, on the world to head off the crisis of unrestrained capital and inevitable revolution on many fronts. He is a true conservative in the old school sense. My advise reread Marx and start to read Antonio Negri and lets move this shit to the street.
I saw Ferguson speak at NYU several years ago. I believe it was a conference on the role of the IMF in globalization. He comes off as a Brit. basking in colonizer's myth of the good old days when God and Queen were saving the darker world with victorian values. If that was not and offensive enough, he continued to make his main point that british colonization was the economic foundation upon which the modern world resides. The fall of the empire and subsequent revolutions for independence throughout the colonial world allowed weak and corrupt regimes to operate with unpredictable, often violent and potentially destablizing results for the interests of the "first world". This thesis has the capacity to convince the causal reader. However, his thesis is historical hackery. The entire post colonial world was the stage of the hot war that raged beneath the industrialized world's headlines of the cold war. After the cold war thrawed, throught the 80's, the convienent dicators of the post-colonial world with their statist economic policies became both a normative and economic hindrance to free flow of global capital necessitated by the rapidly morphing capitalist system. The new global governmentality became the IMF policies of structural adjustment: high interest rates and debt, low taxes and tarrifs, leading to the creation of export driven economies feeding the first world with cheap consumer goods. While racking the third world with unsustainable debt and dependence on external speculative capital flows. In other words, intregration in to the global capitalist system acts as a recolonizing form of governance. As Marx pointed out in the statement "all that is solid melts into air" unrestrained capital will eat itself, starting with the sovereignty of the nation state, not to mention social structures and traditions of localites. So what ferguson is getting at is America needs to reassert the power of the sovereign nation-state, in this case American empire, on the world to head off the crisis of unrestrained capital and inevitable revolution on many fronts. He is a true conservative in the old school sense. My advise reread Marx and start to read Antonio Negri and lets move this shit to the street.
I hardly see where we are "bogged down" in Iraq. We have been systematically destroying the country and its people for ten years. The country is a shambles and its people have been reduced to beggery. This is standard operating procedure for the US. There are some "insurgents" who are not cooperating but they may always be there. An insurgent is someone who doesn't feel comfortable underneath the boots of foreign soldiers.
I hardly see where we are "bogged down" in Iraq. We have been systematically destroying the country and its people for ten years. The country is a shambles and its people have been reduced to beggery. This is standard operating procedure for the US. There are some "insurgents" who are not cooperating but they may always be there. An insurgent is someone who doesn't feel comfortable underneath the boots of foreign soldiers.
These brutes would have such huge muscles that they would weigh 30 or 40 pounds at birth
Hey, wait a minute! First they'd have to develop women who could carry these brutes.
These brutes would have such huge muscles that they would weigh 30 or 40 pounds at birth
Hey, wait a minute! First they'd have to develop women who could carry these brutes.
What should we do if it comes to that. Do you follow the empire? or do you die as renegades?
lava | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 10:12 pm
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
What should we do if it comes to that. Do you follow the empire? or do you die as renegades?
lava | Email | Homepage | 11.27.04 - 10:12 pm
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
"I am Spartacus..."
And as Lombardi said, winning isn't everything, its the only thing. And as Maclom X said, by any means necessary.
I don't care about whose ass were kicking as long as we stay on top.
Cartman
Lombardi's quote is "Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is." ...
I'm absolutely amazed that a dickless insignificant peon like yourself ignorantly misquoted Lombardi ... but there you go!
And as Lombardi said, winning isn't everything, its the only thing. And as Maclom X said, by any means necessary.
I don't care about whose ass were kicking as long as we stay on top.
Cartman
Lombardi's quote is "Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is." ...
I'm absolutely amazed that a dickless insignificant peon like yourself ignorantly misquoted Lombardi ... but there you go!
and i personally get reminded of stevens:
So that's life, then: things as they are?
It picks its way on the blue guitar.
A million people on one string?
And all their manner in the thing,
And all their manner, right and wrong,
And all their manner, weak and strong?
The feelings crazily, craftily call,
Like a buzzing of flies in autumn air,
And that's life, then: things as they are,
This buzzing of the blue guitar.
and i personally get reminded of stevens:
So that's life, then: things as they are?
It picks its way on the blue guitar.
A million people on one string?
And all their manner in the thing,
And all their manner, right and wrong,
And all their manner, weak and strong?
The feelings crazily, craftily call,
Like a buzzing of flies in autumn air,
And that's life, then: things as they are,
This buzzing of the blue guitar.
AS I recall, there was a similar article in Harper's I believe just around the time of the Iraq invasion spewing the same sort of thing. I remember it was a 10 point list on how to deal with the new American Empire. I don't remember who wrote it.
And, did anyone here see that the founder of Stratfor has written an apologist book for the Iraq invasion - one of his arguments is that GWB wanted to take the fight to the terrorists, didn't want to feel weak against AQ, etc. Not such big news except Stratfor is read by many influential people, and this guy was never a right wing crackpot or apologist before.
AS I recall, there was a similar article in Harper's I believe just around the time of the Iraq invasion spewing the same sort of thing. I remember it was a 10 point list on how to deal with the new American Empire. I don't remember who wrote it.
And, did anyone here see that the founder of Stratfor has written an apologist book for the Iraq invasion - one of his arguments is that GWB wanted to take the fight to the terrorists, didn't want to feel weak against AQ, etc. Not such big news except Stratfor is read by many influential people, and this guy was never a right wing crackpot or apologist before.
Barbara, yes they are still working on that. How to develope a woman capable of giving birth to brutes. It seems that both sexes would have to be developed in a laboratory at first. I remember one of the places I read about this. It was in the NY Times and was written by the columnist named Kristof whom no one here likes. But I had seen several other reports concerning this. Brave new world.
Barbara, yes they are still working on that. How to develope a woman capable of giving birth to brutes. It seems that both sexes would have to be developed in a laboratory at first. I remember one of the places I read about this. It was in the NY Times and was written by the columnist named Kristof whom no one here likes. But I had seen several other reports concerning this. Brave new world.
Wild Ghosts on the Tube, Bright Lights in Fat City
"Compared to the things I've done for the [preznut]," Racist Radical Cleric Fallwell says, "both Chuck Colson and Frank Sturgis were daffy hedonists."
Wild Ghosts on the Tube, Bright Lights in Fat City
"Compared to the things I've done for the [preznut]," Racist Radical Cleric Fallwell says, "both Chuck Colson and Frank Sturgis were daffy hedonists."
I'd have to think that mass media has something to do with this RMJ. Surely Rome and Britain committed atrocities on a scale far larger than we could ever imagine. Although if we were committing the atrocities we did against indians and blacks in the glare of today's media we would surely have had someone come down hard on our asses. There are two ways to "conquer" a people. One is mass atrocities, which is bad. The other is to create a democracy by incorporating liberal ideals, good.
I'd have to think that mass media has something to do with this RMJ. Surely Rome and Britain committed atrocities on a scale far larger than we could ever imagine. Although if we were committing the atrocities we did against indians and blacks in the glare of today's media we would surely have had someone come down hard on our asses. There are two ways to "conquer" a people. One is mass atrocities, which is bad. The other is to create a democracy by incorporating liberal ideals, good.
Social Security and Medicare benefit the elderly and disabled. These are the people who are going to fill the ranks of the imperial army? I'm sure the world is cowering in fear...
Social Security and Medicare benefit the elderly and disabled. These are the people who are going to fill the ranks of the imperial army? I'm sure the world is cowering in fear...
Lombardi's quote is "Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is." ..
Hey dicklick, I was talking about Ernie Lombardi. Who the hell are you talking about?
Lombardi's quote is "Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is." ..
Hey dicklick, I was talking about Ernie Lombardi. Who the hell are you talking about?
Erik, ever hear of a place called Hiroshima? How about Nagasaki?
Erik, ever hear of a place called Hiroshima? How about Nagasaki?
doesn't ernie lombardi have a bowling alley near tupelo?
doesn't ernie lombardi have a bowling alley near tupelo?
Victor Davis Hanson must be so pissed, this jumped-up Brit is stealing his schtick....
Victor Davis Hanson must be so pissed, this jumped-up Brit is stealing his schtick....
doesn't ernie lombardi have a bowling alley near tupelo?
Uh, no. Ernie is dearly departed (Cin Reds and NY Giants catcher, career .306 batting average). Retired in 1947,
doesn't ernie lombardi have a bowling alley near tupelo?
Uh, no. Ernie is dearly departed (Cin Reds and NY Giants catcher, career .306 batting average). Retired in 1947,
Jesus Lord Christ in a taxicab! This is possibly the worst idea I've heard... well... ever. These people are going to destroy everything about America we hold dear if we're not careful. Thank God for Presidential term limits.
Jesus Lord Christ in a taxicab! This is possibly the worst idea I've heard... well... ever. These people are going to destroy everything about America we hold dear if we're not careful. Thank God for Presidential term limits.
danke cartman,
but is it possible that we are seeing "a field of dreams" moment before our very eyes??? i swear ernie had a bowling alley in tupelo -- maybe we can gas up the VW van and drag his nelson (pants up his buttcrack) back to iowa where heaven exists and the voting irregularities take at least an evening to work out
danke cartman,
but is it possible that we are seeing "a field of dreams" moment before our very eyes??? i swear ernie had a bowling alley in tupelo -- maybe we can gas up the VW van and drag his nelson (pants up his buttcrack) back to iowa where heaven exists and the voting irregularities take at least an evening to work out
Jesus. Didn't these boys have enough toy soldiers when they were kids? Did someone bully them at school? What freaks are they?
Jesus. Didn't these boys have enough toy soldiers when they were kids? Did someone bully them at school? What freaks are they?
Ernie Lombardi may not have had a bowling alley in Tupelo, but Sammy White most assuredly had one in Boston.
Must be a catcher thing.
Ernie Lombardi may not have had a bowling alley in Tupelo, but Sammy White most assuredly had one in Boston.
Must be a catcher thing.
Holy living fuck, this Ferguson guy is nothing but a brain-addled monster.
This is some of the most vile, anti-American filth I've read in a while... It has echoes of all the hubris of every failed genocidal empire in history.
And as for this:
Successful empires, Ferguson writes, require 'the resolve of the masters and the consent of the subjects.'
Well. That consent is not forthcoming, and it will never be given.
Holy living fuck, this Ferguson guy is nothing but a brain-addled monster.
This is some of the most vile, anti-American filth I've read in a while... It has echoes of all the hubris of every failed genocidal empire in history.
And as for this:
Successful empires, Ferguson writes, require 'the resolve of the masters and the consent of the subjects.'
Well. That consent is not forthcoming, and it will never be given.
These people are going to destroy everything about America we hold dear if we're not careful.
I think they're going to do it even if we are careful.
These people are going to destroy everything about America we hold dear if we're not careful.
I think they're going to do it even if we are careful.
If all it took to hold onto empire was brute force and ruthlessness, the Soviets would still be Eastern Europe and Afghanistan. Besides the PR stuff is all against us. The more brutally we try and suppress those pesky 'natives' the more the world would turn it's back (and maybe other things) against us.
The neo-cons may think the only way to hold power, domestically at least, is perpetual war, but Americans have a very short attention span and even shorter patience. I can't see the voters falling for this into the next election cycle, Bush barely got away with it this time. Even with the nearly full-time assistance of the MSM and the Kerry campaign.
ps: it looks like Pakistan is no longer searching for Bin Laden in its border regions. The timing is interesting, our elections are done. The story pre-election was that Pakistani forces were closing in on his hiding places etc.
If all it took to hold onto empire was brute force and ruthlessness, the Soviets would still be Eastern Europe and Afghanistan. Besides the PR stuff is all against us. The more brutally we try and suppress those pesky 'natives' the more the world would turn it's back (and maybe other things) against us.
The neo-cons may think the only way to hold power, domestically at least, is perpetual war, but Americans have a very short attention span and even shorter patience. I can't see the voters falling for this into the next election cycle, Bush barely got away with it this time. Even with the nearly full-time assistance of the MSM and the Kerry campaign.
ps: it looks like Pakistan is no longer searching for Bin Laden in its border regions. The timing is interesting, our elections are done. The story pre-election was that Pakistani forces were closing in on his hiding places etc.
Jeez, why are these wacko theorists being encouraged?
On that note, I'm pretty sure this Cartman fella is an elaborate joke. If he isn't, however, I'd recommend the first step in his goal of world domination be to enlist. I'm sure the Iraqis will cower before his superior ideals.
Jeez, why are these wacko theorists being encouraged?
On that note, I'm pretty sure this Cartman fella is an elaborate joke. If he isn't, however, I'd recommend the first step in his goal of world domination be to enlist. I'm sure the Iraqis will cower before his superior ideals.
cartman has the same domain and url as Al guys
it's the same dipshit
stop feeding it
which makes cartman a self loathing gay republican
like drudge
cartman has the same domain and url as Al guys
it's the same dipshit
stop feeding it
which makes cartman a self loathing gay republican
like drudge
People who are very good at promoting themselves into postions of power have succeeded at getting into positions of power. They accomplished it because they have no qualms about doing the most transparently brutish things that most people would shy away from.
That seems to be a fundamental problem with democracy. Those who are not sufficiently power-obsessed are at a disadvantage. Maybe you put a benevolent genius in office once in a while but the law of averages skews towards the ruthless. Kind of a natural selection process. We worry about due process and constitutional issues, they worry about whatever it takes to get into power.
This process also selects similar folks to great wealth. No surprise.
So what do these runtless lovelies do once they are running the country? They aren't good at actually administering anything. Their specialty is seizing power. It shows. The country is going to hell in so many ways but all these guys know is power grabbing so now they grab other countries. In such a system things just have to fall apart. The country gets so bad off they can't pay the creditors anymore. Even the hyper rich start to lose money and then there will be some kind of scandal to get rid of them all. Which one? Take your pick, there's a lot of them and no doubt more coming as they get less and less inhibited.
Then the country will be scared enough and pissed off enough to pay attention to the government again. Reform laws will be enacted. We'll have a rebirth of good government until it all gets boring and the greeheads slither back in. Repeat ad nauseum.
People who are very good at promoting themselves into postions of power have succeeded at getting into positions of power. They accomplished it because they have no qualms about doing the most transparently brutish things that most people would shy away from.
That seems to be a fundamental problem with democracy. Those who are not sufficiently power-obsessed are at a disadvantage. Maybe you put a benevolent genius in office once in a while but the law of averages skews towards the ruthless. Kind of a natural selection process. We worry about due process and constitutional issues, they worry about whatever it takes to get into power.
This process also selects similar folks to great wealth. No surprise.
So what do these runtless lovelies do once they are running the country? They aren't good at actually administering anything. Their specialty is seizing power. It shows. The country is going to hell in so many ways but all these guys know is power grabbing so now they grab other countries. In such a system things just have to fall apart. The country gets so bad off they can't pay the creditors anymore. Even the hyper rich start to lose money and then there will be some kind of scandal to get rid of them all. Which one? Take your pick, there's a lot of them and no doubt more coming as they get less and less inhibited.
Then the country will be scared enough and pissed off enough to pay attention to the government again. Reform laws will be enacted. We'll have a rebirth of good government until it all gets boring and the greeheads slither back in. Repeat ad nauseum.
it sounds like satire
Yeah, it does! Like a Swiftian-type thing. Maybe that's what we need, sort of a modern Jonathan Swift to write some totally wacko lampoon of the neocons so everyone can laugh at them when some of them are eating it up...
all empires fall.
Uh, yeah, but sometimes they last a very long time and they do very shitty things while they exist!
Don't just be smug. Oppose what's unjust.
no matter how you try to establish an equitable society, it's always going to reorganize itself into a power hierarchy. It's just human nature
There are a couple of things wrong with this statement. First, it's conclusory, in that you have no support for this statement; rather it's just your arbitrary idea about human nature. Humans have manifested themselves in a great number of types of cultures over our existence. Now that we can craft our institutions in a purposeful and self-aware type-of-way, whose to say that we couldn't do something that hasn't been done before? Second is that even if hierarchy were inevitable, this does not show how it follows that empire has to be the inevitable result.
it sounds like satire
Yeah, it does! Like a Swiftian-type thing. Maybe that's what we need, sort of a modern Jonathan Swift to write some totally wacko lampoon of the neocons so everyone can laugh at them when some of them are eating it up...
all empires fall.
Uh, yeah, but sometimes they last a very long time and they do very shitty things while they exist!
Don't just be smug. Oppose what's unjust.
no matter how you try to establish an equitable society, it's always going to reorganize itself into a power hierarchy. It's just human nature
There are a couple of things wrong with this statement. First, it's conclusory, in that you have no support for this statement; rather it's just your arbitrary idea about human nature. Humans have manifested themselves in a great number of types of cultures over our existence. Now that we can craft our institutions in a purposeful and self-aware type-of-way, whose to say that we couldn't do something that hasn't been done before? Second is that even if hierarchy were inevitable, this does not show how it follows that empire has to be the inevitable result.
what's the basis for saying that Pakistan is no longer searching for Bin Laden?
Where did you find that?
what's the basis for saying that Pakistan is no longer searching for Bin Laden?
Where did you find that?
Niall Ferguson is off his rocker. What once was a respected historian of financial history is becoming a Neo-Imperialism nutjob.
Niall Ferguson is off his rocker. What once was a respected historian of financial history is becoming a Neo-Imperialism nutjob.
i read the review. it was depressing. nothing else to add, really.
i read the review. it was depressing. nothing else to add, really.
what's the basis for saying that Pakistan is no longer searching for Bin Laden?
Where did you find that?
Swan
this is accurate ... i saw it on yahoo or WaPo the other day ... the current prez of pakistan is running into trouble
what's the basis for saying that Pakistan is no longer searching for Bin Laden?
Where did you find that?
Swan
this is accurate ... i saw it on yahoo or WaPo the other day ... the current prez of pakistan is running into trouble
I think maybe liberals aren't ruthless enough yet.
I think maybe liberals aren't ruthless enough yet.
See who attends military funerals:
http://cryptome.org/dead-duck.htm
See who attends military funerals:
http://cryptome.org/dead-duck.htm
Did someone ask where Ferguson was from? He was actually born in Glasgow, but graduated from Oxford. Rob Roy must be turning over in his grave.
Did someone ask where Ferguson was from? He was actually born in Glasgow, but graduated from Oxford. Rob Roy must be turning over in his grave.
Hey dicklick, I was talking about Ernie Lombardi. Who the hell are you talking about?
Cartman
ernie lombardi never said shit you ignorant shit-for-brain repressive cocksucker.
... he was slow and ugly, much like you, but he was a strong batter AND a catcher ... whereas you're just a fat worthless fuck posting inaccurate quotes.
Hey dicklick, I was talking about Ernie Lombardi. Who the hell are you talking about?
Cartman
ernie lombardi never said shit you ignorant shit-for-brain repressive cocksucker.
... he was slow and ugly, much like you, but he was a strong batter AND a catcher ... whereas you're just a fat worthless fuck posting inaccurate quotes.
I think maybe liberals aren't ruthless enough yet.
Mike
blogwhoring alert: check mine out .. you may be surprised -- heat-seaking bastard with a fundamental hate for everything right wing
I think maybe liberals aren't ruthless enough yet.
Mike
blogwhoring alert: check mine out .. you may be surprised -- heat-seaking bastard with a fundamental hate for everything right wing
what's the basis for saying that Pakistan is no longer searching for Bin Laden?
Where did you find that?
Swan
It's frontpage on CNN.com right now, cuz.
what's the basis for saying that Pakistan is no longer searching for Bin Laden?
Where did you find that?
Swan
It's frontpage on CNN.com right now, cuz.
Quoth: "Maybe an outstanding leader is our last best hope. Where is our time's Jesus, Gandhi or MLK? Until then, lets set the stage for her (or him)."
The stage is all yours.
Actually, there's only one way to react to talk of American Empire: Label it anti-American. Because it is. Don't get caught up in why it's anti-American. Explain, but stand your position. Empire is anti-American. Simple as that.
Don't call them 'neocons,' call them 'Imperialists,' because that's what they are. Simple as that.
The 'pax Americana' bullshit is what will undo the neocon imperialists. Point and laugh. Deride, jeer. Be jovial as you point out to their defenders that they're defending blatant imperialism. Why do you defend imperialism, friend? Why do you think it's a good thing that we freeze our class structure so there can be cannon fodder? Don't you believe that America should represent an opportunity to advance? Why should we lock the poor into poverty to feed the war machine? Tell me, friend, have they blinded you with their tales of terrorism and 'flypaper strategies?' Hah! Let's laugh at them together now, shall we, friend?
Quoth: "Maybe an outstanding leader is our last best hope. Where is our time's Jesus, Gandhi or MLK? Until then, lets set the stage for her (or him)."
The stage is all yours.
Actually, there's only one way to react to talk of American Empire: Label it anti-American. Because it is. Don't get caught up in why it's anti-American. Explain, but stand your position. Empire is anti-American. Simple as that.
Don't call them 'neocons,' call them 'Imperialists,' because that's what they are. Simple as that.
The 'pax Americana' bullshit is what will undo the neocon imperialists. Point and laugh. Deride, jeer. Be jovial as you point out to their defenders that they're defending blatant imperialism. Why do you defend imperialism, friend? Why do you think it's a good thing that we freeze our class structure so there can be cannon fodder? Don't you believe that America should represent an opportunity to advance? Why should we lock the poor into poverty to feed the war machine? Tell me, friend, have they blinded you with their tales of terrorism and 'flypaper strategies?' Hah! Let's laugh at them together now, shall we, friend?
my prediction: michael jackson drops another baby & we are @ war with iran.
& america cares about it in that order.
my prediction: michael jackson drops another baby & we are @ war with iran.
& america cares about it in that order.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I can't think of a single empire that has lasted up to the present day.
Rome? Britain? Alexander? Genghis Khan? Kublai Khan? Third Reich?
Ecclesiastes is my favorite reading from the Bible. Give it a try if you're not familiar with it, and share it with your Republican friends.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I can't think of a single empire that has lasted up to the present day.
Rome? Britain? Alexander? Genghis Khan? Kublai Khan? Third Reich?
Ecclesiastes is my favorite reading from the Bible. Give it a try if you're not familiar with it, and share it with your Republican friends.
Here's some stuff you guys might be interested in:
Read "The Rise and Fall of the Great Empires" by Kennedy. It's a classic. You can find on amazon for cheap. He says that all empires fall because they over-extend militarily, but their success is usually for commmercial reasons, and they leave that behind when they get these imperial notions. He examines pretty much every empire since the Spanish.
Also, what Europeans are saying is that the English have jumped into this because the English ruling class has never been able to accept the loss of its empire, so the next best thing is to pal around with the Americans in their attempts to acquire one. The non-ruling classes aren't of the same advice. That's the scoop from Europe.
Well, there is another one - in a few more years, you may be able to count France as a rabid supporter of GWB because the Finance Minister, Sarkozy is very pro-Bush and is the front runner for the presidency in 2007. Remember, Chirac's government is right wing
Here's some stuff you guys might be interested in:
Read "The Rise and Fall of the Great Empires" by Kennedy. It's a classic. You can find on amazon for cheap. He says that all empires fall because they over-extend militarily, but their success is usually for commmercial reasons, and they leave that behind when they get these imperial notions. He examines pretty much every empire since the Spanish.
Also, what Europeans are saying is that the English have jumped into this because the English ruling class has never been able to accept the loss of its empire, so the next best thing is to pal around with the Americans in their attempts to acquire one. The non-ruling classes aren't of the same advice. That's the scoop from Europe.
Well, there is another one - in a few more years, you may be able to count France as a rabid supporter of GWB because the Finance Minister, Sarkozy is very pro-Bush and is the front runner for the presidency in 2007. Remember, Chirac's government is right wing
Yeah, all you need to maintain an empire is to be ruthless enough.
Those Nazis were such pussies, that's why the Third Reich only lasted 12 years.
If only they'd been mean to the Russians instead of mollycoddling them.
This guy is insane. Unfortunately, this is his prime qualification for being a sponsored intellectual in the neocon orbit.
Yeah, all you need to maintain an empire is to be ruthless enough.
Those Nazis were such pussies, that's why the Third Reich only lasted 12 years.
If only they'd been mean to the Russians instead of mollycoddling them.
This guy is insane. Unfortunately, this is his prime qualification for being a sponsored intellectual in the neocon orbit.
Well, you know there were some Nazis who thought they hadn't been ruthless enough, believe it or not.
Well, you know there were some Nazis who thought they hadn't been ruthless enough, believe it or not.
Bread and circuses may have worked for Rome for a while. We have plenty of bread(eating kind at least for now) and an amazing amount of 'circus' attractions. But i think most Americans will reject this whole empire thing as being too much "hard work" and sacrifice. The sacrifices will become more tangible pretty soon, and how many times can you trot out the Al Qaeda boogeyman to scare security moms?
Bread and circuses may have worked for Rome for a while. We have plenty of bread(eating kind at least for now) and an amazing amount of 'circus' attractions. But i think most Americans will reject this whole empire thing as being too much "hard work" and sacrifice. The sacrifices will become more tangible pretty soon, and how many times can you trot out the Al Qaeda boogeyman to scare security moms?
I think it will be the cost that turns Americans off this little imperialist adventure.
I think it will be the cost that turns Americans off this little imperialist adventure.
cartman has the same domain and url as Al guys
it's the same dipshit
stop feeding it
which makes cartman a self loathing gay republican
like drudge
Maccabee
the "self-loathing gay republican" is something i am picking up on with these insane people. bush,(joseph goebbels) rove, abu ghraib gonzalez, falwell, ari flescher, ralph reed, mehlman, countless fox news reporters, , etc....
i am waiting for falwell to be exposed. he is so gay. that is why he is so obsessed with his hatred of homosexuals.
self-hatred is the key to their psychosis. also, they are in constant terror of being found out.
cartman has the same domain and url as Al guys
it's the same dipshit
stop feeding it
which makes cartman a self loathing gay republican
like drudge
Maccabee
the "self-loathing gay republican" is something i am picking up on with these insane people. bush,(joseph goebbels) rove, abu ghraib gonzalez, falwell, ari flescher, ralph reed, mehlman, countless fox news reporters, , etc....
i am waiting for falwell to be exposed. he is so gay. that is why he is so obsessed with his hatred of homosexuals.
self-hatred is the key to their psychosis. also, they are in constant terror of being found out.
Uh, I'm pretty sure Ferguson's pointing out the PROBLEMS Britain ran into and why empires inevitably collapse. He's not advocating those ideas as "good."
Uh, I'm pretty sure Ferguson's pointing out the PROBLEMS Britain ran into and why empires inevitably collapse. He's not advocating those ideas as "good."
I distrust historical analogies; but just for the record, the Roman Empire achieved its greatest extent when the emperor Trajan conquered Mesopotamia and made it a province. As I recall, the Romans managed to keep it for something like three years before they realized it was more trouble then it was worth and entirely too close to Persia.
I distrust historical analogies; but just for the record, the Roman Empire achieved its greatest extent when the emperor Trajan conquered Mesopotamia and made it a province. As I recall, the Romans managed to keep it for something like three years before they realized it was more trouble then it was worth and entirely too close to Persia.
The Romans almost lost Britain because their idiotic governor humiliated Queen Boudica by having her flogged and having her daughers raped. Her tribe had been allies of the Romans. Her rebellion nearly drove the Romans into the sea and she totally destroyed London. So much for Roman "people skills".
The Romans almost lost Britain because their idiotic governor humiliated Queen Boudica by having her flogged and having her daughers raped. Her tribe had been allies of the Romans. Her rebellion nearly drove the Romans into the sea and she totally destroyed London. So much for Roman "people skills".
romans cared less about people skills - they were after debauchery
romans cared less about people skills - they were after debauchery
"The "fringe" is moving more and more toward the center"
minor point, but the fringe is not moving to the center, they are becoming the center or in essence the center is moving to the fringe - a country of, by, and for the wingnuttery.
America bye, bye.
-
"The "fringe" is moving more and more toward the center"
minor point, but the fringe is not moving to the center, they are becoming the center or in essence the center is moving to the fringe - a country of, by, and for the wingnuttery.
America bye, bye.
-
" These people are going to destroy everything about America we hold dear if we're not careful.
I think they're going to do it even if we are careful."
asleep at the wheel...already done.
" These people are going to destroy everything about America we hold dear if we're not careful.
I think they're going to do it even if we are careful."
asleep at the wheel...already done.
perhaps Ferguson sees reward in being the anti-Krugman.
-
perhaps Ferguson sees reward in being the anti-Krugman.
-
"Yes, it will fall apart. The question is, how much worse can it get, first?"
the question is how much suffering, death, and destruction will it cause: in the build-up, the flailing about to maintain, and the fall.
-
"Yes, it will fall apart. The question is, how much worse can it get, first?"
the question is how much suffering, death, and destruction will it cause: in the build-up, the flailing about to maintain, and the fall.
-
"In a sort of Freudian "identifying with the aggressor" kind of behavior, I gather the wholly disenfranchised will attach themselves to power, ideally by serving in the imperial army."
think serfs and the course of America becomes clear. 51% just proved that they prefer to be ruled than governed. Being ruled takes no effort, just do and think what the authority figure tells you. Democracy takes participation beyond mere voting, which is work - not for the American dullards.
/
"In a sort of Freudian "identifying with the aggressor" kind of behavior, I gather the wholly disenfranchised will attach themselves to power, ideally by serving in the imperial army."
think serfs and the course of America becomes clear. 51% just proved that they prefer to be ruled than governed. Being ruled takes no effort, just do and think what the authority figure tells you. Democracy takes participation beyond mere voting, which is work - not for the American dullards.
/
Awhile ago there was a story in the news about how genetic engineering can be use to create a race of brutes who would do the fighting in the wars to come. They wouldn't flinch at killing or torturing civilians, and they would have the kind of stamina none of our present day troops could match.
And they'd be just as dead upon the sudden introduction of a bullet to the brain.
Leave the bioengineering scare stories to those of us who like SF, please. Considering that you find find hordes of willing people know to do just that based on the old-fashioned methods of producing new soldiers, it seems like a lot of work with no obvious benefits.
Awhile ago there was a story in the news about how genetic engineering can be use to create a race of brutes who would do the fighting in the wars to come. They wouldn't flinch at killing or torturing civilians, and they would have the kind of stamina none of our present day troops could match.
And they'd be just as dead upon the sudden introduction of a bullet to the brain.
Leave the bioengineering scare stories to those of us who like SF, please. Considering that you find find hordes of willing people know to do just that based on the old-fashioned methods of producing new soldiers, it seems like a lot of work with no obvious benefits.
when do we invade the Sudetenland?
*
when do we invade the Sudetenland?
*
Hey Cartman, post your real name, address, and phone number. I'll send it to your local recruiting office and you can go support your cause. I didn't think so chickenshit! You ain't nothing but a pussy with a dick for a brain.
Erik
Erik, you missed the point with Cartman. He's like one of those idiots that chant "we're number ONE, we're number ONE" and say things like "we totally dominated the Packers today!" from the sidelines.
He's one of those pinheads that cheer the people that hold him in contempt, thinking he is "one of them" when they use him like a shot-rag.
In short, he is pathetic. Anyone that gung-ho that was honorable would have joined up in the army.
He's all hat, no cattle.
Unless of course he's only nine or ten year-old. In which case he might still be able to grow out of the juvenile "Masters of the Universe" thing and actually become a human being.
For som reason I keep thinking lately about the character in "House of Spirits" that Jeremy Irons played...hard right wing (except he at least put his money where his mouth was) right up to the revolution...when he expected to be high and mighty, only to be faced with the reality that the louts that took over had no honor and didn't need him anymore since they could just take. In the film, when he realizes how things really are, and what his "vision" has brought on...
Course, that was fiction. In the real world the Cartmans' of today are too dumb to even get the realization. They'd be standing there with a dumb smile on their face for their masters thinking "how lucky I am, WE'RE number ONE!!"
Hey Cartman, post your real name, address, and phone number. I'll send it to your local recruiting office and you can go support your cause. I didn't think so chickenshit! You ain't nothing but a pussy with a dick for a brain.
Erik
Erik, you missed the point with Cartman. He's like one of those idiots that chant "we're number ONE, we're number ONE" and say things like "we totally dominated the Packers today!" from the sidelines.
He's one of those pinheads that cheer the people that hold him in contempt, thinking he is "one of them" when they use him like a shot-rag.
In short, he is pathetic. Anyone that gung-ho that was honorable would have joined up in the army.
He's all hat, no cattle.
Unless of course he's only nine or ten year-old. In which case he might still be able to grow out of the juvenile "Masters of the Universe" thing and actually become a human being.
For som reason I keep thinking lately about the character in "House of Spirits" that Jeremy Irons played...hard right wing (except he at least put his money where his mouth was) right up to the revolution...when he expected to be high and mighty, only to be faced with the reality that the louts that took over had no honor and didn't need him anymore since they could just take. In the film, when he realizes how things really are, and what his "vision" has brought on...
Course, that was fiction. In the real world the Cartmans' of today are too dumb to even get the realization. They'd be standing there with a dumb smile on their face for their masters thinking "how lucky I am, WE'RE number ONE!!"
Did I also mention that I like to eat my own feces?
Did I also mention that I like to eat my own feces?
Ferguson is historically illiterate.
20th century liberalism *created* empire.
Until the 1950s, believe it or not, the Republicans were the party of non-intervention. The Democrats were the party of benevolent hegemony and foreign policy activism. The common saying was, "Republicans get us into depressions, and Democrats get us into wars."
In the '50s, William F. Buckley and the New Right transformed "conservatism" by borrowing the FDR/Truman national security state as a "conservative" institution.
Ferguson is historically illiterate.
20th century liberalism *created* empire.
Until the 1950s, believe it or not, the Republicans were the party of non-intervention. The Democrats were the party of benevolent hegemony and foreign policy activism. The common saying was, "Republicans get us into depressions, and Democrats get us into wars."
In the '50s, William F. Buckley and the New Right transformed "conservatism" by borrowing the FDR/Truman national security state as a "conservative" institution.
apparently, one may spew junk in an educated brit/irish accent and get a respectful hearing, while an american would have his audience of true-believer mouth-breathers but rightly get written off by everyone else.
by the way, i think the bush admin. is ahead of the curve re. ferguson: i believe them when they say no draft; their econ. program will create a class of unemployed whose only chance to earn a living is the military. this will be necessarily supplemented by an immigration policy granting citizenship for service military service as per late imperial rome.
apparently, one may spew junk in an educated brit/irish accent and get a respectful hearing, while an american would have his audience of true-believer mouth-breathers but rightly get written off by everyone else.
by the way, i think the bush admin. is ahead of the curve re. ferguson: i believe them when they say no draft; their econ. program will create a class of unemployed whose only chance to earn a living is the military. this will be necessarily supplemented by an immigration policy granting citizenship for service military service as per late imperial rome.
Whoa!
Seems the neonutsies are worshipping at the alter of empire again. I used to play RISK....a fun game, until one realizes that there are disturbed people who actually view the living, breathing world as a game. What glory is there in an America striving to attain some ephemeral sense of "empire", while using up the last of its "capital", otherwise known as honor?
Whoa!
Seems the neonutsies are worshipping at the alter of empire again. I used to play RISK....a fun game, until one realizes that there are disturbed people who actually view the living, breathing world as a game. What glory is there in an America striving to attain some ephemeral sense of "empire", while using up the last of its "capital", otherwise known as honor?
Whoa!
Seems the neonutsies are worshipping at the alter of empire again. I used to play RISK....a fun game, until one realizes that there are disturbed people who actually view the living, breathing world as a game. What glory is there in an America striving to attain some ephemeral sense of "empire", while using up the last of its "capital", otherwise known as honor?
Whoa!
Seems the neonutsies are worshipping at the alter of empire again. I used to play RISK....a fun game, until one realizes that there are disturbed people who actually view the living, breathing world as a game. What glory is there in an America striving to attain some ephemeral sense of "empire", while using up the last of its "capital", otherwise known as honor?
It is amusing that the Brits are trying to get us to go imperial just when we are going bankrupt thanks to imperial overreach.
The British empire was such an empty shell that the Japanese just shoved it right over. The Chinese bogged down the Japanese badly but this was the Chinese fighting imperialism...and the result was a thorough going revolution that elevated the communists who now still run China and who are successfully taking down the American empire using trade and debt as lures.
We are deep in debt, collectively and individually and our infrastructure is being reamed out and sold to the highest bidder who is often the Chinese and we now go, hat in hand, to Japan and China to keep our empire from collapsing.
We are beggars at the gates of Beijing.
Note that the stupid Brit "historian" calls us SUBJECTS. Subjects are owned by the Crown. I recall my family helping behead a King in the seventeenth century and then fleeing to America when his son took over again.
Later, we fought a revolution to stop another King.
It is amusing that the Brits are trying to get us to go imperial just when we are going bankrupt thanks to imperial overreach.
The British empire was such an empty shell that the Japanese just shoved it right over. The Chinese bogged down the Japanese badly but this was the Chinese fighting imperialism...and the result was a thorough going revolution that elevated the communists who now still run China and who are successfully taking down the American empire using trade and debt as lures.
We are deep in debt, collectively and individually and our infrastructure is being reamed out and sold to the highest bidder who is often the Chinese and we now go, hat in hand, to Japan and China to keep our empire from collapsing.
We are beggars at the gates of Beijing.
Note that the stupid Brit "historian" calls us SUBJECTS. Subjects are owned by the Crown. I recall my family helping behead a King in the seventeenth century and then fleeing to America when his son took over again.
Later, we fought a revolution to stop another King.
Uh, I'm pretty sure Ferguson's pointing out the PROBLEMS Britain ran into and why empires inevitably collapse. He's not advocating those ideas as "good."
Uh, Matt. Try reading some of Ferguson's work like Empire: The Rise and Demise of the British World Order and the Lessons for Global Power. While he does address the faults of the British Empire, he actually DOES defend a lot of those ideas as "good" (He believes the British Empire was the vanguard of progressive thought in the world for centuries) and actually suggests the world NEEDS another "benevolent" empire. That would be US. It was an eye-opening book to say the least and I don't think his ideas are so harmless.
I've had Colossus on my nightstand for months and haven't had the time (or the heart)to read it yet. FYI, it got a gushing endorsement from Max Boot.
Uh, I'm pretty sure Ferguson's pointing out the PROBLEMS Britain ran into and why empires inevitably collapse. He's not advocating those ideas as "good."
Uh, Matt. Try reading some of Ferguson's work like Empire: The Rise and Demise of the British World Order and the Lessons for Global Power. While he does address the faults of the British Empire, he actually DOES defend a lot of those ideas as "good" (He believes the British Empire was the vanguard of progressive thought in the world for centuries) and actually suggests the world NEEDS another "benevolent" empire. That would be US. It was an eye-opening book to say the least and I don't think his ideas are so harmless.
I've had Colossus on my nightstand for months and haven't had the time (or the heart)to read it yet. FYI, it got a gushing endorsement from Max Boot.
I, for one, welcome our new absolutely-fucked-in-the-head imperialist overlords.
NTodd
I got it this time. Last time my patented Irony Detector was down for much-needed maintenance.
Brits still make the best imperialists on screen. Just think of Peter Cushing in Star Wars, or better yet Laurence Olivier in Spartacus("grovel at the feet of mighty Rome!").
I, for one, welcome our new absolutely-fucked-in-the-head imperialist overlords.
NTodd
I got it this time. Last time my patented Irony Detector was down for much-needed maintenance.
Brits still make the best imperialists on screen. Just think of Peter Cushing in Star Wars, or better yet Laurence Olivier in Spartacus("grovel at the feet of mighty Rome!").
See Maureen Dowd's column today on her family of origin. If they are as crimson as she states, and she sees the forest through the trees, there is hope that these a armegeddon-loving neo-facist foundations of parenthood will produce more blues of orgasmic anger.
See Maureen Dowd's column today on her family of origin. If they are as crimson as she states, and she sees the forest through the trees, there is hope that these a armegeddon-loving neo-facist foundations of parenthood will produce more blues of orgasmic anger.
How about "I, Claudius"? Hilarious family tit for tats of Ancient Rome.
How about "I, Claudius"? Hilarious family tit for tats of Ancient Rome.
Just as poverty drove the Irish and Scots into Britain's colonial army,
Maybe Grandin and Ferguson should go ask your average Brit in the street how well that turned out, especially in Ireland. I don't even know what century these guys are from. I just can't(until now, that is) believe that anyone living in the 21st century still thought like that. The lunatics have indeed taken over the asylum.
Just as poverty drove the Irish and Scots into Britain's colonial army,
Maybe Grandin and Ferguson should go ask your average Brit in the street how well that turned out, especially in Ireland. I don't even know what century these guys are from. I just can't(until now, that is) believe that anyone living in the 21st century still thought like that. The lunatics have indeed taken over the asylum.
Correction: I was referring to Niall Ferguson, Grandin merely reviewed Ferguson's book. Damn! That'll teach me to start posting before I've had my coffee fix.
Correction: I was referring to Niall Ferguson, Grandin merely reviewed Ferguson's book. Damn! That'll teach me to start posting before I've had my coffee fix.
NYMary,
I respectfully disagree. We are repeating history at lightning pace. Just as we are repeating Vietnam in fast forward, we are also recreating the path of the Roman Empire, most especially the transition between the Republic and the Principate. (Who here doubts that Jeb is next up, if all goes well?)
I also used to think that Iraq was Vietnam on speed, but we've been there two years now and all signs are pointing to a Vietnam-length conflict before American leaders even consider allowing our troops to leave. Maybe it isn't that history moves so fast these days but that our hyper-awareness of it makes it seem as if it does. It's like being in the passenger seat of a car driven by a drunk driver - you know it's going to end badly, even before it starts.
I'll agree that we may in fact be at that transition point from Republic to Principate, but I'll remind you that Americans have had a good 400+ year run on the continent under various forms of democratic representation. As far as I can see, right now we're moving neither faster nor slower than the Romans did to their Empire, which is why I'm extremely concerned that, despite the naysayers, our imperial run will outlast us all.
If George W. Bush is Emperor C+ Augustus (per Charles Pierce), then Jeb is definitely a Tiberius in waiting. Does that make George P. Claudius? Neil Bush as Caligula? And the Bush twins double-teaming the role of Nero, partying/fiddling while D.C./Rome burns?
NYMary,
I respectfully disagree. We are repeating history at lightning pace. Just as we are repeating Vietnam in fast forward, we are also recreating the path of the Roman Empire, most especially the transition between the Republic and the Principate. (Who here doubts that Jeb is next up, if all goes well?)
I also used to think that Iraq was Vietnam on speed, but we've been there two years now and all signs are pointing to a Vietnam-length conflict before American leaders even consider allowing our troops to leave. Maybe it isn't that history moves so fast these days but that our hyper-awareness of it makes it seem as if it does. It's like being in the passenger seat of a car driven by a drunk driver - you know it's going to end badly, even before it starts.
I'll agree that we may in fact be at that transition point from Republic to Principate, but I'll remind you that Americans have had a good 400+ year run on the continent under various forms of democratic representation. As far as I can see, right now we're moving neither faster nor slower than the Romans did to their Empire, which is why I'm extremely concerned that, despite the naysayers, our imperial run will outlast us all.
If George W. Bush is Emperor C+ Augustus (per Charles Pierce), then Jeb is definitely a Tiberius in waiting. Does that make George P. Claudius? Neil Bush as Caligula? And the Bush twins double-teaming the role of Nero, partying/fiddling while D.C./Rome burns?
RMJ,
Again, thanks for the thread (sorry again for the stylistic gripes in the earlier talkback - in retrospect it was really none of my business).
Rome was the absolute power in Europe and across its span for centuries.
Since WWII, we have fought North Korea to a standstill, bailed out of Vietnam after 17 or more years of endless bloodshed, and are now bogged down in a relentless guerilla war against men armed only with car bombs, RPG's, and determination.
France once called us a "hyper-power." Would that it were true.
We are not Rome. We are not even Britain under Victoria. We are a paper tiger. And all the world, beyond the reach of CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN/FoxNews/MSNBC, surely knows that by now.
Rome was hardly the hyper-power it seems in retrospect. Read carefully the history of the Republic and the advance of its Imperium and you will see the same intractable hotspots, the same wars fought to standstills, the same combination of incompetent generals and misguided foreign policy.
What Rome had that perhaps we lack was a dogged willingness to keep throwing blood and treasure at its problems until they went away. It remains to be seen whether our "post-9/11" national incarnation has changed that appreciably since Vietnam, but I think unlike during the 60's and 70's there is a genuine "Imperial" sentiment in American politics encompassesing a large portion of both the Left and the Right these days which scares the living hell out of me.
RMJ,
Again, thanks for the thread (sorry again for the stylistic gripes in the earlier talkback - in retrospect it was really none of my business).
Rome was the absolute power in Europe and across its span for centuries.
Since WWII, we have fought North Korea to a standstill, bailed out of Vietnam after 17 or more years of endless bloodshed, and are now bogged down in a relentless guerilla war against men armed only with car bombs, RPG's, and determination.
France once called us a "hyper-power." Would that it were true.
We are not Rome. We are not even Britain under Victoria. We are a paper tiger. And all the world, beyond the reach of CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN/FoxNews/MSNBC, surely knows that by now.
Rome was hardly the hyper-power it seems in retrospect. Read carefully the history of the Republic and the advance of its Imperium and you will see the same intractable hotspots, the same wars fought to standstills, the same combination of incompetent generals and misguided foreign policy.
What Rome had that perhaps we lack was a dogged willingness to keep throwing blood and treasure at its problems until they went away. It remains to be seen whether our "post-9/11" national incarnation has changed that appreciably since Vietnam, but I think unlike during the 60's and 70's there is a genuine "Imperial" sentiment in American politics encompassesing a large portion of both the Left and the Right these days which scares the living hell out of me.
Shazzam:
Ferguson will have a ways to go to top Krugman.
We should let the right appropriate Ferguson. Let them. The cost of Chimpy war will eventually undo the right.
Krugman is really an economist first, and Ferguson; I think he believes he is another Charles Beard or Kolko.
Besides Ferguson in himself is not the threat, the threat is who listens to this guy and what position they have in the Bush Cartel. that's what counts.
Shazzam:
Ferguson will have a ways to go to top Krugman.
We should let the right appropriate Ferguson. Let them. The cost of Chimpy war will eventually undo the right.
Krugman is really an economist first, and Ferguson; I think he believes he is another Charles Beard or Kolko.
Besides Ferguson in himself is not the threat, the threat is who listens to this guy and what position they have in the Bush Cartel. that's what counts.
Wait, this isn't a satire? Along the lines of Jonathan Swift maybe?
Or Monty Python?
Wait, this isn't a satire? Along the lines of Jonathan Swift maybe?
Or Monty Python?
oodja,
The imperial sentiment is less pervasive then you think. Mainly because it is not clearly understood.
The cost of Chimpy war has yet to be reckoned. many think Iran is next, and if so, I would look for barbaric use of unconventional weapons to quell a nation of 125 millions which is armed to the teeth, quite patriotic, and much more sophisticated than the Iraqi guerrillas. But I think Iran is not next!!!!!
I think more lightly armed, dysfunctional Syria is next, and because of OIL! We want to develope the Kirkuk field, and will need a pipeline. Which is easier, overland to the Gulf, which is about a salty, "land-locked" lake. A pipeline overland through Syria, picking up their oil, and then through Lebanon to the Med would be sound business practice. It would shave thousands of nautical miles off the transport of oil, and "might" be workable.....which is a mighty big "Might!"
Iran would be a disaster for us. A complete disaster. But Syria would be easy, and offers all sorts of potential for US/Israeli relations especially over oil.
oodja,
The imperial sentiment is less pervasive then you think. Mainly because it is not clearly understood.
The cost of Chimpy war has yet to be reckoned. many think Iran is next, and if so, I would look for barbaric use of unconventional weapons to quell a nation of 125 millions which is armed to the teeth, quite patriotic, and much more sophisticated than the Iraqi guerrillas. But I think Iran is not next!!!!!
I think more lightly armed, dysfunctional Syria is next, and because of OIL! We want to develope the Kirkuk field, and will need a pipeline. Which is easier, overland to the Gulf, which is about a salty, "land-locked" lake. A pipeline overland through Syria, picking up their oil, and then through Lebanon to the Med would be sound business practice. It would shave thousands of nautical miles off the transport of oil, and "might" be workable.....which is a mighty big "Might!"
Iran would be a disaster for us. A complete disaster. But Syria would be easy, and offers all sorts of potential for US/Israeli relations especially over oil.
oodja,
let me redo my third paragraph...it doesn't make sense to me.
[I think more lightly armed, dysfunctional Syria is next, and because of OIL. We want to develope the Kirkuk oil field. We will need a pipeline, but which is easier? The Gulf which amounts to a difficult, salty "landlocked lake," or overland through Syria, picking up the Syrian oil and on through Lebanon to the Med? The Syria option has sound business sense, it shaves thousands of nautical miles off the transport of the oil.]
Hopefully that's better
oodja,
let me redo my third paragraph...it doesn't make sense to me.
[I think more lightly armed, dysfunctional Syria is next, and because of OIL. We want to develope the Kirkuk oil field. We will need a pipeline, but which is easier? The Gulf which amounts to a difficult, salty "landlocked lake," or overland through Syria, picking up the Syrian oil and on through Lebanon to the Med? The Syria option has sound business sense, it shaves thousands of nautical miles off the transport of the oil.]
Hopefully that's better
You say ferguson is another Charles Beard. What do you mean? Are you talking about the ealy 20th century Charles Beard, the progessive reformer or someone else.
You say ferguson is another Charles Beard. What do you mean? Are you talking about the ealy 20th century Charles Beard, the progessive reformer or someone else.
Boilerman10,
The imperial sentiment is less pervasive then you think. Mainly because it is not clearly understood.
I don't know about that. There's a lot of "America - Fuck, Yeah!" going around these days, and I'm seeing little if any sign of it abating. I used to think that once the shock of 9/11 wore off people would come to their senses and see the Bush Administration for what it really was, but whereas Nixon went down over a hotel break-in and Clinton almost lost his job over a sexual piccadillo this crew has survived Fallujah (the first time), Abu Ghraib, Hans Blix, and graphic footage of prisoner execution in a holy place. If something about Iraq was going to undo this administration, it would already have happened now. Which makes me extremely leery about predicting the next big war as Bush's Waterloo in the War on Terror.
I agree that in the end the Bushies may choose Syria as the next target, simply because it's "low-hanging fruit" in all the ways you've outlined.
Iran, on the other hand, is complicated. There's no obvious advantage to invading, as there was in Iraq - moving the troops the hell out of Saudi Arabia was a paramount concern for even the most conservative of Bush's war party. Let's hope there are enough pragmatists left in the Cabinet to keep us from marching on Tehran, but somehow I doubt it.
Boilerman10,
The imperial sentiment is less pervasive then you think. Mainly because it is not clearly understood.
I don't know about that. There's a lot of "America - Fuck, Yeah!" going around these days, and I'm seeing little if any sign of it abating. I used to think that once the shock of 9/11 wore off people would come to their senses and see the Bush Administration for what it really was, but whereas Nixon went down over a hotel break-in and Clinton almost lost his job over a sexual piccadillo this crew has survived Fallujah (the first time), Abu Ghraib, Hans Blix, and graphic footage of prisoner execution in a holy place. If something about Iraq was going to undo this administration, it would already have happened now. Which makes me extremely leery about predicting the next big war as Bush's Waterloo in the War on Terror.
I agree that in the end the Bushies may choose Syria as the next target, simply because it's "low-hanging fruit" in all the ways you've outlined.
Iran, on the other hand, is complicated. There's no obvious advantage to invading, as there was in Iraq - moving the troops the hell out of Saudi Arabia was a paramount concern for even the most conservative of Bush's war party. Let's hope there are enough pragmatists left in the Cabinet to keep us from marching on Tehran, but somehow I doubt it.
"i believe them when they say no draft; their econ. program will create a class of unemployed whose only chance to earn a living is the military."
you underestimate the greed. think back at all the incidents the last 3 years where the Bushliar regime was trying to reduce the remuneration of the soldiers. there will be a draft so repukelicans can lower the cost to the military budget of the soldiers. based on the premise that the military budget will never go down, but also that it will be difficult to raise much with the huge Bush deficits, repukelicans will re-instate the draft for a couple of reasons:
1) with the draft and lower pay, they can raise the quantity of soldiers for more warring without increasing the budget (all-war, all-the-time is the repukelican election strategy for the foreseeable future);
2) with lower soldier costs on the budget, there will be more gravey to spread around to repukelican military contractor campaign contributors.
-
"i believe them when they say no draft; their econ. program will create a class of unemployed whose only chance to earn a living is the military."
you underestimate the greed. think back at all the incidents the last 3 years where the Bushliar regime was trying to reduce the remuneration of the soldiers. there will be a draft so repukelicans can lower the cost to the military budget of the soldiers. based on the premise that the military budget will never go down, but also that it will be difficult to raise much with the huge Bush deficits, repukelicans will re-instate the draft for a couple of reasons:
1) with the draft and lower pay, they can raise the quantity of soldiers for more warring without increasing the budget (all-war, all-the-time is the repukelican election strategy for the foreseeable future);
2) with lower soldier costs on the budget, there will be more gravey to spread around to repukelican military contractor campaign contributors.
-
America wasn't any good from the beginning and it still sucks. It is a country founded on genocide and slavery. Occasionally some good, liberal, progessive developments such as the aboliton of slavery, woman's suffrage, civil rights legislation, anti-war movements, etc. made things better, but right now the neocons are in charge and we are in some deep dodo. Either the new American Empire will prevail or it and we along with it will be destroyed. Either way, we're fucked.
America wasn't any good from the beginning and it still sucks. It is a country founded on genocide and slavery. Occasionally some good, liberal, progessive developments such as the aboliton of slavery, woman's suffrage, civil rights legislation, anti-war movements, etc. made things better, but right now the neocons are in charge and we are in some deep dodo. Either the new American Empire will prevail or it and we along with it will be destroyed. Either way, we're fucked.
I misspelled "shit"
I misspelled "shit"
For what it's worth, Ferguson is definitely advocating empire, not pointing out the problems with it. What astounded me most about the book when I read it this spring was how willing he is to shade the facts to do it.
For instance, he argues extensively that people in third-world states would be better off as American imperial subjects because their governments have done such a horrid job of managing their finances. And in doing so, he completely ignores the extent to which the fiscal policies of third world states are already routinely dictated by Washington, via the sister institutions of the IMF and World Bank... and that his own two examples of sub-Sharan states that have done well over the past two decades or so are among the few that have managed to buck the "Washington consensus" about what third world fiscal policy should be.
More details in my own brief review here...
For what it's worth, Ferguson is definitely advocating empire, not pointing out the problems with it. What astounded me most about the book when I read it this spring was how willing he is to shade the facts to do it.
For instance, he argues extensively that people in third-world states would be better off as American imperial subjects because their governments have done such a horrid job of managing their finances. And in doing so, he completely ignores the extent to which the fiscal policies of third world states are already routinely dictated by Washington, via the sister institutions of the IMF and World Bank... and that his own two examples of sub-Sharan states that have done well over the past two decades or so are among the few that have managed to buck the "Washington consensus" about what third world fiscal policy should be.
More details in my own brief review here...
I'm late on this, but I'm probably one of the only ones here with personal experience of Ferguson. (He taught at my college in Oxford, and though I wasn't one of his students, many of my friends were, and I had plenty of contact with him.)
Background? Lower-middle class Scottish, but a brilliant scholarship student and elected Fellow very young. Social climber, chameleon, well-connected. Charming, very good with his students -- he's got jobs for plenty of them -- and very snippy towards people he doesn't have a personal or professional interest in.
Anyway, he's good on German economic history. He's especially good on the economics of all varieties of totalitarianism, ironically enough. His next book -- the one that he's promised will mark a return to primary research, and justify Harvard's hiring him -- is going to be the test of whether he can 'buy back in' after selling out.
I also suspect his wife (a magazine/newspaper editor) may have had a hand in getting him to chase the AEI circuit and the lucrative American market by plouging the empire furrow -- one that he's plainly lacking expertise in.
I'm late on this, but I'm probably one of the only ones here with personal experience of Ferguson. (He taught at my college in Oxford, and though I wasn't one of his students, many of my friends were, and I had plenty of contact with him.)
Background? Lower-middle class Scottish, but a brilliant scholarship student and elected Fellow very young. Social climber, chameleon, well-connected. Charming, very good with his students -- he's got jobs for plenty of them -- and very snippy towards people he doesn't have a personal or professional interest in.
Anyway, he's good on German economic history. He's especially good on the economics of all varieties of totalitarianism, ironically enough. His next book -- the one that he's promised will mark a return to primary research, and justify Harvard's hiring him -- is going to be the test of whether he can 'buy back in' after selling out.
I also suspect his wife (a magazine/newspaper editor) may have had a hand in getting him to chase the AEI circuit and the lucrative American market by plouging the empire furrow -- one that he's plainly lacking expertise in.
Oh, and it's worth remembering that the Highland Clearances and Adam Smith were more or less contemporary. Scottish history is complicated that way.
Oh, and it's worth remembering that the Highland Clearances and Adam Smith were more or less contemporary. Scottish history is complicated that way.
Oh, and finally: while Paul Kennedy (a Geordie in Yale) was considered 'unfashionable' for a while, his 'Rise & Fall of the Great Powers' seems more relevant now than Ferguson's new stuff.
Oh, and finally: while Paul Kennedy (a Geordie in Yale) was considered 'unfashionable' for a while, his 'Rise & Fall of the Great Powers' seems more relevant now than Ferguson's new stuff.
Ferguson drafted Colossus in the wake of the apparent rapid victory of 2003. He rewrote it slightly as things looked slightly more sticky this time last year, but it went to press before Abyu Ghraib and Fallujah. It was his calling card to the Neo-cons, 'deal me in boys!'. And it is a shameful piece of work, based on statistical legerdemain aimed at suggesting that somehow imperialism was either the best or the only possible road to modernity. The only good part of the book is about the coming bond market apocalypse.
Ferguson drafted Colossus in the wake of the apparent rapid victory of 2003. He rewrote it slightly as things looked slightly more sticky this time last year, but it went to press before Abyu Ghraib and Fallujah. It was his calling card to the Neo-cons, 'deal me in boys!'. And it is a shameful piece of work, based on statistical legerdemain aimed at suggesting that somehow imperialism was either the best or the only possible road to modernity. The only good part of the book is about the coming bond market apocalypse.
Seems the neonutsies are worshipping at the alter of empire again. I used to play RISK....a fun game, until one realizes that there are disturbed people who actually view the living, breathing world as a game.
Awhile back there was some talk of Adam Yoshida, the Japanese-Canadian student and foaming mad right-wing blogger.
Those who know him report that he gained his political "expertise" playing national government simulations. Apparently something like Civilizations.
Our soldiers are being recruited via video and computer games simulating military combat, and maybe our "policy elites" will be recruited via games like Civilizations or whatever mutation satisfied the urges of someone like Yoshida.
Ferguson's taste for academic alternate-history scenarios ("Virtual History") represents a high-toned version of same.
Seems the neonutsies are worshipping at the alter of empire again. I used to play RISK....a fun game, until one realizes that there are disturbed people who actually view the living, breathing world as a game.
Awhile back there was some talk of Adam Yoshida, the Japanese-Canadian student and foaming mad right-wing blogger.
Those who know him report that he gained his political "expertise" playing national government simulations. Apparently something like Civilizations.
Our soldiers are being recruited via video and computer games simulating military combat, and maybe our "policy elites" will be recruited via games like Civilizations or whatever mutation satisfied the urges of someone like Yoshida.
Ferguson's taste for academic alternate-history scenarios ("Virtual History") represents a high-toned version of same.
sounds to me like ferguson is describing, not advocating...
sounds to me like ferguson is describing, not advocating...
...a fun game, until one realizes that there are disturbed people who actually view the living, breathing world as a game.
Life is a game, friend - what you get to decide is whether it's going to be zero-sum or not.
...a fun game, until one realizes that there are disturbed people who actually view the living, breathing world as a game.
Life is a game, friend - what you get to decide is whether it's going to be zero-sum or not.
I've heard fuckhead Ferguson more times than I can count on "Public" radio. Another reason not to answer the call at pledge time.
I've heard fuckhead Ferguson more times than I can count on "Public" radio. Another reason not to answer the call at pledge time.
sounds to me like ferguson is describing, not advocating...
I spent an entire semester with EMPIRE for a history class on European colonialism .
He's advocating.
sounds to me like ferguson is describing, not advocating...
I spent an entire semester with EMPIRE for a history class on European colonialism .
He's advocating.
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I donno what to make of this guy Ferguson. He is from my field (history BA McGill 95) so I understand the use of counterfactual in a history thesis and it is quite normal. I also read his book the Cash Nexus and was impressed with his ability to form an economic model of state power from the historical record of the European powers: their taxation policies and their bond markets.
What I don't get are is rabidly conservative conclusions and suppositions. In Cash Nexus these opinions appear secondary and arbitrary, as if they were tacked on at the end of well reasoned descriptions. It was like, wait a minute, your conlusion does not follow your description of the facts. What are you doing Niall?
So I wonder if he is writting with radical conclusions in order to solicit strong rebuttle. Some historians view the progress of history as a dialectic, so a hard position is good for the process, because you get a strong rebuttle.
But when it comes to his panpheleteering on Empire I think he is trying too hard to be positive. I mean he is a European historian for Christ sake. He knows that Europe's imperial cycle of the the 19th century ended with rival imperial visions confronting and distoying each other in the First World War. How would a new American Imperium not end in similar fashion against China, India, Russia, Indonesia, Brazil, Europe or some other combination. I mean this is basic stuff. Attempts at Imperial dominance always end in massive resistance, just ask Napoleon.
I also have to comment about Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. We sometimes forget that Korea was NOT a victory for the United States. It was a draw. And it was a draw for two reasons.
1. The Chinese Red Army DEFEATED the American Army in Nothern Korea in November 1950.
2. The American economy was suffering under the expense of the War and Truman decided to settle in September 1953 rather than ratchet up the conflict possibly with with nukes.
In Vietnam one of the BIGGEST reasons we did not invade the North was because we did not want to repeat Korea. We did not want to have to face the Chinese army in North Vietnam fighting along side the Veitnamese, who although historical ennemies would have combined to keep a "pro-American" regime away from China's borders at all costs. And Nukes were not an easy option. Although it is unlikely that Russia would have nuked the US for us using them on North Vietnam, there is nothing to say that Russia would not have allowed them to be used on South Vietnam. Nuking the American Fleet at Cam Ram Bay in retaliation for us nuking Hanoi for example. So the next time you see a pro imperialists say "we could of nuked em" you will know he hasn't thought it through. So victory in Asia was gonna be tough and expensive and just like in Korea the American economy started to fail because of the massive deficits the government was taking on. Remeber Nixon was FORCED by the international bond markets to take the US dollar off the gold peg. An
I donno what to make of this guy Ferguson. He is from my field (history BA McGill 95) so I understand the use of counterfactual in a history thesis and it is quite normal. I also read his book the Cash Nexus and was impressed with his ability to form an economic model of state power from the historical record of the European powers: their taxation policies and their bond markets.
What I don't get are is rabidly conservative conclusions and suppositions. In Cash Nexus these opinions appear secondary and arbitrary, as if they were tacked on at the end of well reasoned descriptions. It was like, wait a minute, your conlusion does not follow your description of the facts. What are you doing Niall?
So I wonder if he is writting with radical conclusions in order to solicit strong rebuttle. Some historians view the progress of history as a dialectic, so a hard position is good for the process, because you get a strong rebuttle.
But when it comes to his panpheleteering on Empire I think he is trying too hard to be positive. I mean he is a European historian for Christ sake. He knows that Europe's imperial cycle of the the 19th century ended with rival imperial visions confronting and distoying each other in the First World War. How would a new American Imperium not end in similar fashion against China, India, Russia, Indonesia, Brazil, Europe or some other combination. I mean this is basic stuff. Attempts at Imperial dominance always end in massive resistance, just ask Napoleon.
I also have to comment about Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. We sometimes forget that Korea was NOT a victory for the United States. It was a draw. And it was a draw for two reasons.
1. The Chinese Red Army DEFEATED the American Army in Nothern Korea in November 1950.
2. The American economy was suffering under the expense of the War and Truman decided to settle in September 1953 rather than ratchet up the conflict possibly with with nukes.
In Vietnam one of the BIGGEST reasons we did not invade the North was because we did not want to repeat Korea. We did not want to have to face the Chinese army in North Vietnam fighting along side the Veitnamese, who although historical ennemies would have combined to keep a "pro-American" regime away from China's borders at all costs. And Nukes were not an easy option. Although it is unlikely that Russia would have nuked the US for us using them on North Vietnam, there is nothing to say that Russia would not have allowed them to be used on South Vietnam. Nuking the American Fleet at Cam Ram Bay in retaliation for us nuking Hanoi for example. So the next time you see a pro imperialists say "we could of nuked em" you will know he hasn't thought it through. So victory in Asia was gonna be tough and expensive and just like in Korea the American economy started to fail because of the massive deficits the government was taking on. Remeber Nixon was FORCED by the international bond markets to take the US dollar off the gold peg. An
Frodo and Luke Skywalker had it easy
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