I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
So, somebody finally defined moral and ethical values in such a fashion that a poll could be taken? How wonderful for us all - now, nobody who didn't before know what was dirty will feel in the least restrained from designating exactly what it is they don't know now. And making sure that it isn't available.
Pfui.
So, somebody finally defined moral and ethical values in such a fashion that a poll could be taken? How wonderful for us all - now, nobody who didn't before know what was dirty will feel in the least restrained from designating exactly what it is they don't know now. And making sure that it isn't available.
Pfui.
The first poll Zogby sent me after the election was the first one to include a "moral values" question.
I'd been annoyed with lists of issues in the question that asked me which was the most important. Taxes? Well, yes, I think taxes on the rich should be restored, probably to 1960 levels. Education? Yes, I think education is vital to a functioning democracy. The environment? Security? Iraq? Jobs? Yes, yes, I think what Bush has been doing on these fronts has been devastating to our nation. But which one is more important? I couldn't choose.
But guess what - they're all part of the same moral issues I have about creating a better society and a better world. So, at last, I could pick the one that mattered most of all, the one they all fit under.
I voted for Kerry because of moral values - that is, I actually have some. Bare breasts and dirty words aren't even an issue for me.
The first poll Zogby sent me after the election was the first one to include a "moral values" question.
I'd been annoyed with lists of issues in the question that asked me which was the most important. Taxes? Well, yes, I think taxes on the rich should be restored, probably to 1960 levels. Education? Yes, I think education is vital to a functioning democracy. The environment? Security? Iraq? Jobs? Yes, yes, I think what Bush has been doing on these fronts has been devastating to our nation. But which one is more important? I couldn't choose.
But guess what - they're all part of the same moral issues I have about creating a better society and a better world. So, at last, I could pick the one that mattered most of all, the one they all fit under.
I voted for Kerry because of moral values - that is, I actually have some. Bare breasts and dirty words aren't even an issue for me.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
Where are the Democrats indeed? These are some of the questions screaming to be asked, yet what we hear is mostly silence. It is probably not the opposition that we need to be most worried about...
Where are the Democrats indeed? These are some of the questions screaming to be asked, yet what we hear is mostly silence. It is probably not the opposition that we need to be most worried about...
Rich centers his comments around the "Monday Night Football/Desperate Housewives" promotion. And he quotes Aaron Brown, who says "People were so outraged they had to see it 10 times."
I agree with Hecate. This isn't about "moral values." It's the same old club, picked up once again as a way of wielding power. And the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power.
Rich centers his comments around the "Monday Night Football/Desperate Housewives" promotion. And he quotes Aaron Brown, who says "People were so outraged they had to see it 10 times."
I agree with Hecate. This isn't about "moral values." It's the same old club, picked up once again as a way of wielding power. And the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power.
Sigh.
22 percent, down from 40 percent in 1996 voted on the basis of 'moral values' when given a list of issues to choose from and supposedly 80% of the 'moral values' choosers voted for Bush, as if there were another issue they could choose where they thought he had a position that they could cite that was better.
And this part of the poll, never mind that the more important part of the poll which is the 'exit' part, is supposedly discredited for being 'wrong, just wrong' is the cause of a panel of religious fanatics being hosted on pumpkinhead's show as a legitimate poltical force.
I'm not too optimistic for my country this morning.
-
Sigh.
22 percent, down from 40 percent in 1996 voted on the basis of 'moral values' when given a list of issues to choose from and supposedly 80% of the 'moral values' choosers voted for Bush, as if there were another issue they could choose where they thought he had a position that they could cite that was better.
And this part of the poll, never mind that the more important part of the poll which is the 'exit' part, is supposedly discredited for being 'wrong, just wrong' is the cause of a panel of religious fanatics being hosted on pumpkinhead's show as a legitimate poltical force.
I'm not too optimistic for my country this morning.
-
If I hear 'where are the Democrats' one more time, I'm going to pluck my own eyes from their sockets.
The Democratic Party is proving to be more and more irrelevant in the post-election aftermath.
It either needs to be totally purged and rebuilt from the ground up, or abandoned entirely and a new viable alternative created. The stakes are just too high now.
If I hear 'where are the Democrats' one more time, I'm going to pluck my own eyes from their sockets.
The Democratic Party is proving to be more and more irrelevant in the post-election aftermath.
It either needs to be totally purged and rebuilt from the ground up, or abandoned entirely and a new viable alternative created. The stakes are just too high now.
America's "Moral and Ethical Values"?.....sure, they can be operationally defined.....in dollars and cents.
America's "Moral and Ethical Values"?.....sure, they can be operationally defined.....in dollars and cents.
The Morality Brigade doesn't want you to think for yourself. They lose control that way because the fear and intimidation factor becomes irrelevant, once people use the rational mind that God gave them.
The other nice thing the Morality Brigade does is - looks out only for themselves and fuck everyone else.
The media - is just looking for more ratings. Like a dry sponge attracted to a source of water.
The Morality Brigade doesn't want you to think for yourself. They lose control that way because the fear and intimidation factor becomes irrelevant, once people use the rational mind that God gave them.
The other nice thing the Morality Brigade does is - looks out only for themselves and fuck everyone else.
The media - is just looking for more ratings. Like a dry sponge attracted to a source of water.
Where are the Democrats?
…And where are Michael's eyeballs?
Where are the Democrats?
…And where are Michael's eyeballs?
I know this has been said before, but I think it bears repeating: what would have been the reaction if the player whose arms Nicolette Sheridan had jumped into had been, say, Brett Fahhhv-rey? Somebody nice and lily white? Would Rush have been so nonplussed?
And Rich does a good job of pointing out that these "outraged" people are the same ones who are watching "Desperate Housewives", so I have no idea how they reconcile that fact with themselves.
I know this has been said before, but I think it bears repeating: what would have been the reaction if the player whose arms Nicolette Sheridan had jumped into had been, say, Brett Fahhhv-rey? Somebody nice and lily white? Would Rush have been so nonplussed?
And Rich does a good job of pointing out that these "outraged" people are the same ones who are watching "Desperate Housewives", so I have no idea how they reconcile that fact with themselves.
What's going on here is a smoke and mirrors game. It's like their campaigns, they can't win with substance so they try to win with vague things that they believe can't be challenged. Anyone who says they don't care about "moral values" or that points out that most people don't care will be attacked.
The solution is to side step their strawman and focus on issues that are of value.
For instance the rapidly falling dollar or paper ballots.
Basically we need a message that they can't contradict, our best bets are nationalists platforms like closing our borders to illegal immigration, lowering the deficit and other things that they say they agree with. If we say it louder than they do, they will appear to be followers rather than leaders.
Why the "Democrats" aren't speaking is because the "Democrats," meaning the DNC is a DLC controlled beast at the moment. The DLC needs to get kicked out, once that happens things can change.
We need someone who is anti-DLC, because the DLC are Republican appeasers and clones.
What's going on here is a smoke and mirrors game. It's like their campaigns, they can't win with substance so they try to win with vague things that they believe can't be challenged. Anyone who says they don't care about "moral values" or that points out that most people don't care will be attacked.
The solution is to side step their strawman and focus on issues that are of value.
For instance the rapidly falling dollar or paper ballots.
Basically we need a message that they can't contradict, our best bets are nationalists platforms like closing our borders to illegal immigration, lowering the deficit and other things that they say they agree with. If we say it louder than they do, they will appear to be followers rather than leaders.
Why the "Democrats" aren't speaking is because the "Democrats," meaning the DNC is a DLC controlled beast at the moment. The DLC needs to get kicked out, once that happens things can change.
We need someone who is anti-DLC, because the DLC are Republican appeasers and clones.
Fear was again the overriding theme of this years election. It drives the economy as well.
Alot of people I like voted for Bush out of fear. The Democrats are almost non-existant outside of the urban areas of Ohio so no one to challenge the status quo(votes).
Media is lazy.
Seriously, the Democrats need to start creating amorphous organizations to give figureheads a bully pulpit.
Who are Dobson and Falwell and why should I care what they say? They aren't elected leaders.
While I'm as pissed as the next Democrat at our leaders' lack of spines, I also recognize that we need more proxies with visibility. Jeebus, I saw Al Sharpton representing the pro-choice side on MTP yesterday. Scary.
Can someone annoint Al Franken a high priest or something so that he can get booked on cable shows?
Fear was again the overriding theme of this years election. It drives the economy as well.
Alot of people I like voted for Bush out of fear. The Democrats are almost non-existant outside of the urban areas of Ohio so no one to challenge the status quo(votes).
Media is lazy.
Seriously, the Democrats need to start creating amorphous organizations to give figureheads a bully pulpit.
Who are Dobson and Falwell and why should I care what they say? They aren't elected leaders.
While I'm as pissed as the next Democrat at our leaders' lack of spines, I also recognize that we need more proxies with visibility. Jeebus, I saw Al Sharpton representing the pro-choice side on MTP yesterday. Scary.
Can someone annoint Al Franken a high priest or something so that he can get booked on cable shows?
Democrats point out the obvious?
Goddamn you funny on mondays!
Democrats point out the obvious?
Goddamn you funny on mondays!
I always wondered what exactly the wording of this question was, because I always vote according to my moral values. That's what voting is to me, an exercise in expressing your moral values and ideals. It's just that my values are American values and not some twisted set of old testement values.
I always wondered what exactly the wording of this question was, because I always vote according to my moral values. That's what voting is to me, an exercise in expressing your moral values and ideals. It's just that my values are American values and not some twisted set of old testement values.
Dammit, I made that "getting out of bed" mistake again, didn't I?
Dammit, I made that "getting out of bed" mistake again, didn't I?
This is obviously a better forum than the Morning Thread for my post. Sorry to those who already read it there.
As there were 227 comments to the post on Advent I wanted to comment here that we need much more of these posts.
Progressives tend to be quiet about their spiritual beliefs because they are private and then our actions, which are public, move from there.
In the new political world we live in, we need to be more public that many of us believe deeply. This post show the power of love that exists in religion or in spirit for those who don't have a specific religion. It's time we shared that.
Fundamentalism is meeting a deep need for spirit in people. We need to show that there are other paths that meet that need for passionate spiritual connection.
And a PS (and a blog whore) a post from a service woman that I put on my blog
livejournal.com/users/deerdancer22,
that also captures this Advent spirit.
For the record I am a Buddhist.
This is obviously a better forum than the Morning Thread for my post. Sorry to those who already read it there.
As there were 227 comments to the post on Advent I wanted to comment here that we need much more of these posts.
Progressives tend to be quiet about their spiritual beliefs because they are private and then our actions, which are public, move from there.
In the new political world we live in, we need to be more public that many of us believe deeply. This post show the power of love that exists in religion or in spirit for those who don't have a specific religion. It's time we shared that.
Fundamentalism is meeting a deep need for spirit in people. We need to show that there are other paths that meet that need for passionate spiritual connection.
And a PS (and a blog whore) a post from a service woman that I put on my blog
livejournal.com/users/deerdancer22,
that also captures this Advent spirit.
For the record I am a Buddhist.
I think the "moral values" vote was in fact important, because it's what got the bigots and homophobes and anti-choice crowd out to vote.
I think the "moral values" vote was in fact important, because it's what got the bigots and homophobes and anti-choice crowd out to vote.
Folks, we just had a major holiday, and Congress is out of town.
I assume the Democrats will be heard from, but right now almost no one is listening.
Folks, we just had a major holiday, and Congress is out of town.
I assume the Democrats will be heard from, but right now almost no one is listening.
emd,
And, yet, MTP was still on yesterday and the Racist Radical Clerics were still on spouting their hatred. And the lone Democrat was apparently Al Sharpton.
emd,
And, yet, MTP was still on yesterday and the Racist Radical Clerics were still on spouting their hatred. And the lone Democrat was apparently Al Sharpton.
Folks, we just had a major holiday, and Congress is out of town.
what better time to sneak in and put tacks on all their chairs?
Folks, we just had a major holiday, and Congress is out of town.
what better time to sneak in and put tacks on all their chairs?
Hardly a day goes by that doesnt evoke irritation, outrage, or astonishment at the media's coloring of the news. The taking up of this "moral values" mantra is case in point. No questioning of the "moral values" crowds take on making Gonzolas head cop after his statement about the Geneva Convertion being quant.
The press inserts their little qualifying "alledgedly unarmed" or "apparently wounded" into the story of the US Marine shooting the unarmed, wounded, Iraq in Fallujah. They explain the election controversy in the Ukraine with a completely straight face and drawing no obvious parallels to our own election debacle. They regularly editorialize the news by inserting comments about the "russian opposition candidate" supporters being bussed in. How do they know this? We don't care. These young street protestors in the Ukraine are young democrats, our street protesters in Miami, New York etc. are anarchists.
Did we ever have a press that reported the news even when it challanged the status quo, the powerful? Is it OK to write about Tiger Company and get a Pulitzer twenty years later? Watergate happened the Pentagon Papers, what is the difference now?
Hardly a day goes by that doesnt evoke irritation, outrage, or astonishment at the media's coloring of the news. The taking up of this "moral values" mantra is case in point. No questioning of the "moral values" crowds take on making Gonzolas head cop after his statement about the Geneva Convertion being quant.
The press inserts their little qualifying "alledgedly unarmed" or "apparently wounded" into the story of the US Marine shooting the unarmed, wounded, Iraq in Fallujah. They explain the election controversy in the Ukraine with a completely straight face and drawing no obvious parallels to our own election debacle. They regularly editorialize the news by inserting comments about the "russian opposition candidate" supporters being bussed in. How do they know this? We don't care. These young street protestors in the Ukraine are young democrats, our street protesters in Miami, New York etc. are anarchists.
Did we ever have a press that reported the news even when it challanged the status quo, the powerful? Is it OK to write about Tiger Company and get a Pulitzer twenty years later? Watergate happened the Pentagon Papers, what is the difference now?
This Week had Floyd Flake and Tony Campolo. Check Punditpap for the details.
I don't know who was on MTP with Sharpton, but got the impression from reading these threads that he gave Falwell as well as he got.
This Week had Floyd Flake and Tony Campolo. Check Punditpap for the details.
I don't know who was on MTP with Sharpton, but got the impression from reading these threads that he gave Falwell as well as he got.
Well, the press has never let a few facts get in the way of a good meme.
And the american public seems to be incapable of thinking.
Well, the press has never let a few facts get in the way of a good meme.
And the american public seems to be incapable of thinking.
What we need to see is an article that ties the drop-off in "moral values" to the Bush Presidency.
What we need to see is an article that ties the drop-off in "moral values" to the Bush Presidency.
As good as he got.
Sorry, need caffeine.
As good as he got.
Sorry, need caffeine.
I don't know who was on MTP with Sharpton, but got the impression from reading these threads that he gave Falwell as well as he got.
Maybe. But Sharpton is treated like a crackpot in most of the media, while Falwell is generally treated with kid gloves. Likewise Dobson.
Why are these idiots given the time of day?
I don't know who was on MTP with Sharpton, but got the impression from reading these threads that he gave Falwell as well as he got.
Maybe. But Sharpton is treated like a crackpot in most of the media, while Falwell is generally treated with kid gloves. Likewise Dobson.
Why are these idiots given the time of day?
I guess those of us without religious beliefs can go fuck ourselves, I suppose.
I guess those of us without religious beliefs can go fuck ourselves, I suppose.
I say let the Republicans claim there fake moral values victory, plenty of glass houses and stones to go around.
Every time I see the freak Falwell's on my TV screen, I give thanks that his mug will become the personification of the republican's "moral values".
I say let the Republicans claim there fake moral values victory, plenty of glass houses and stones to go around.
Every time I see the freak Falwell's on my TV screen, I give thanks that his mug will become the personification of the republican's "moral values".
And even Sharpton wasn't pointing out these figures. Instead, he tried to out-Bible the Racist Radical Clerics. That's fine, but someone needs to point out the same figures as the Economist.
And even Sharpton wasn't pointing out these figures. Instead, he tried to out-Bible the Racist Radical Clerics. That's fine, but someone needs to point out the same figures as the Economist.
What's going on right now is GOOD for us. That's why we shouldn't point out that the percentage of voters citing moral and ethical values as their first priority has gone down.
Look, you just quoted an article that referred to "ayatollahs"of the right. That's got to help us.
What's going on right now is GOOD for us. That's why we shouldn't point out that the percentage of voters citing moral and ethical values as their first priority has gone down.
Look, you just quoted an article that referred to "ayatollahs"of the right. That's got to help us.
maybe I am wrong, but didn't that moral value percentage come from the exit polls? ya know, the one's that we're told are sooooo wrong?
maybe I am wrong, but didn't that moral value percentage come from the exit polls? ya know, the one's that we're told are sooooo wrong?
An End to Victimization
There is no shortage of keen analysis on the left. Thomas Frank had a good take on the Democrats' flailings and failings in flyover country with his What's The Matter With Kansas. Understanding the liberals' inability to frame the debate, George Lakoff tries hard with Don't Think of an Elephant. And now Mel Gilles (via Matt Gross via Atrios) has a sharp analogy to add to the litany: The Democrats are a bunch of battered wives.
Couldn't help but notice. Look at Donna Brazille quiver with lame nervous laughter as Bay Buchanan calls her irrelevant. Watch Chuck Schumer and other Democratic Establishment stiffs cry publicly for their need to appeal to the Heartland. See Dan Rather's mea culpa unravel whatever courage he once had. Yes, these are sad victims in need of help.
With this tacked onto the list, we Dems have a bevy of brilliant analyses. But the truly pathetic case isn't the Democrats' condition; it's the left's chronic prognosis problem. They identify the illness, but they prescribe remedies destined to keep the sick mule on its death bed of rancid hay.
Don't be fooled. We aren't going to rally Kansans by appealing to their economic self-interests through a revival of old time populism. The elephant will not disappear from people's minds just because we mutter the mantras of "effective government" or "broad prosperity," whatever the hell that means. And recognizing we are the "victims" is just going to get us a lifetime lease at the public-aid shelter.
After all the dissecting is done, the fact is plain: Weakness will not win.
Democrats are led by exceptionally weak people, and, despite their angular analytics, the new wave of internal critics don't appear much stronger. The crux of the weakness lies in their language.
Democrats constantly think they need to "appeal" to people. Appeal to a morality of justice and opportunity. Appeal to people's sense of decency or fairness. Become more appealing to rural voters. Appeal their losses in court.
This weak culture of "appeal" will doom us forever to the maternity ward of politics. Maybe that's where the old "nanny state" party feels most comfortable, but if Democrats hope to show Republicans who their daddy is, they better drop a couple stones and focus on one thing: the Fight for Freedom.
Read more at Mule Kicker
An End to Victimization
There is no shortage of keen analysis on the left. Thomas Frank had a good take on the Democrats' flailings and failings in flyover country with his What's The Matter With Kansas. Understanding the liberals' inability to frame the debate, George Lakoff tries hard with Don't Think of an Elephant. And now Mel Gilles (via Matt Gross via Atrios) has a sharp analogy to add to the litany: The Democrats are a bunch of battered wives.
Couldn't help but notice. Look at Donna Brazille quiver with lame nervous laughter as Bay Buchanan calls her irrelevant. Watch Chuck Schumer and other Democratic Establishment stiffs cry publicly for their need to appeal to the Heartland. See Dan Rather's mea culpa unravel whatever courage he once had. Yes, these are sad victims in need of help.
With this tacked onto the list, we Dems have a bevy of brilliant analyses. But the truly pathetic case isn't the Democrats' condition; it's the left's chronic prognosis problem. They identify the illness, but they prescribe remedies destined to keep the sick mule on its death bed of rancid hay.
Don't be fooled. We aren't going to rally Kansans by appealing to their economic self-interests through a revival of old time populism. The elephant will not disappear from people's minds just because we mutter the mantras of "effective government" or "broad prosperity," whatever the hell that means. And recognizing we are the "victims" is just going to get us a lifetime lease at the public-aid shelter.
After all the dissecting is done, the fact is plain: Weakness will not win.
Democrats are led by exceptionally weak people, and, despite their angular analytics, the new wave of internal critics don't appear much stronger. The crux of the weakness lies in their language.
Democrats constantly think they need to "appeal" to people. Appeal to a morality of justice and opportunity. Appeal to people's sense of decency or fairness. Become more appealing to rural voters. Appeal their losses in court.
This weak culture of "appeal" will doom us forever to the maternity ward of politics. Maybe that's where the old "nanny state" party feels most comfortable, but if Democrats hope to show Republicans who their daddy is, they better drop a couple stones and focus on one thing: the Fight for Freedom.
Read more at Mule Kicker
what better time to sneak in and put tacks on all their chairs?
I was thinking 10 penny nails.. or falafel...
what better time to sneak in and put tacks on all their chairs?
I was thinking 10 penny nails.. or falafel...
I have so totally grown to despise Christianity. I grew up in church. My dad was a deacon of an Old Time Religion church. The only thing left of it for me were the old hymnals which when you grow up singing and listening to before and after church services, they become almost something organically a part of you. It was my habit to listen to them every Sunday morning on my drive home from work on an Old Time radio broadcast aired during my drive. They sang them the old way without instrumentals. Yesterday morning, for the first time, I couldn't. It just felt like oppression to me. Really felt sad in a way that's hard to express.
I have so totally grown to despise Christianity. I grew up in church. My dad was a deacon of an Old Time Religion church. The only thing left of it for me were the old hymnals which when you grow up singing and listening to before and after church services, they become almost something organically a part of you. It was my habit to listen to them every Sunday morning on my drive home from work on an Old Time radio broadcast aired during my drive. They sang them the old way without instrumentals. Yesterday morning, for the first time, I couldn't. It just felt like oppression to me. Really felt sad in a way that's hard to express.
mulekicker has a point.
The Democratic party and/or the "liberal movement" lack good, strong, effective leaders. The current contenders impress me little.
A strong leader may be able to take on the so-called-liberal-but-really-corporate-toadie-lap-
dog media and be able to define his own image, rather than spending all his time reacting to and defending from noisy attacks.
Leadership
Media
Memebership
Oh, and coffee.
mulekicker has a point.
The Democratic party and/or the "liberal movement" lack good, strong, effective leaders. The current contenders impress me little.
A strong leader may be able to take on the so-called-liberal-but-really-corporate-toadie-lap-
dog media and be able to define his own image, rather than spending all his time reacting to and defending from noisy attacks.
Leadership
Media
Memebership
Oh, and coffee.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Ins't Chimp cowed/bullied by this religious spin, also? After all, he's got this supposed man-date, and one would think he could bully-pulpit-slap Congress around on passing a more sensible budget and intelligence reform, if he so chose. Congress is now chock-a-block with moralist true believers, so it looks to me like he's in their headlock as bad as the Dems.
Ins't Chimp cowed/bullied by this religious spin, also? After all, he's got this supposed man-date, and one would think he could bully-pulpit-slap Congress around on passing a more sensible budget and intelligence reform, if he so chose. Congress is now chock-a-block with moralist true believers, so it looks to me like he's in their headlock as bad as the Dems.
Pollen Boy,
If they're not already embarrassed beyond all belief, I think we're talking about people with no shame.
Pollen Boy,
If they're not already embarrassed beyond all belief, I think we're talking about people with no shame.
Jim Wallis, editor-in-chief of Sojourners Magazine was on Meet the Press yesterday. According to Allen Brill at The Garden Gate (formerly The Right Christians), a liberal Christian website, Sojourners is on our side. And from what I read in this article, he held his own on MTP:
http://tinyurl.com/6ncqj
Jim Wallis, editor-in-chief of Sojourners Magazine was on Meet the Press yesterday. According to Allen Brill at The Garden Gate (formerly The Right Christians), a liberal Christian website, Sojourners is on our side. And from what I read in this article, he held his own on MTP:
http://tinyurl.com/6ncqj
I think the problem is is that people don't know what's going on. If they knew as much as we all mostly know, it would be democrats in landslide after landslide. The problem is getting the information out to them since polticians are no longer willing to work on their behalf regardless of their ignorance of the facts. We need a major network like CNN. We need to begin cultivating democratic candidates on a local level all the way up.
I think the problem is is that people don't know what's going on. If they knew as much as we all mostly know, it would be democrats in landslide after landslide. The problem is getting the information out to them since polticians are no longer willing to work on their behalf regardless of their ignorance of the facts. We need a major network like CNN. We need to begin cultivating democratic candidates on a local level all the way up.
Hecate,
Of course you're right, they have no shame. But if Falwell thinks that the recent election somehow gives him a platform for a desperate attempt at greatness, he's likely to make a complete doofus of himself (again) in the process. It's an M.O. or something of his. I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
We should be glad he represents the right.
Hecate,
Of course you're right, they have no shame. But if Falwell thinks that the recent election somehow gives him a platform for a desperate attempt at greatness, he's likely to make a complete doofus of himself (again) in the process. It's an M.O. or something of his. I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
We should be glad he represents the right.
But quite frankly, I really don't think we have time.
But quite frankly, I really don't think we have time.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Falwell has already done this ten times over. What could be more ambarassing than his post-9/11 comment that this country deserved the terrorist attack?
The problem is that none of the dumb-ass things he says really does him much damage because the media gives him what amounts to a free ride.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Falwell has already done this ten times over. What could be more ambarassing than his post-9/11 comment that this country deserved the terrorist attack?
The problem is that none of the dumb-ass things he says really does him much damage because the media gives him what amounts to a free ride.
where is Larry Flynt when you need him?
where is Larry Flynt when you need him?
Actually, one thing that annoys me is that Democrats claim that the Republicans are to blame for the excesses of the FCC. Yes, Bush can't run away from the Powell nomination, but Powell hasn't operated in a vacuum.
A couple people asked "Where are the Democrats?" Well, I'll tell you where they are. They're on the floor of the Senate giving "Me, too" speeches about how the airwaves have to be cleaned up, and casting votes to raise "indecency" fines. And when broadcasters turn to Democrats to say that the FCC is out of control, the Democrats reply by saying, "Hey, if we can use this indecency hysteria to advance our delusional 'media consolidation' gripes, we're all for it."
It would be a little more credible for you guys to get all indignant about the Powell FCC if your candidate had said one word about it during the recent campaign. It would be more credible if a couple of Democrat Senators would get up one morning, walk out on to the Senate floor, and defend Howard Stern.
Neither major party will significantly clip the wings of the FCC because BOTH parties rely on it, or the threat of it, to keep broadcasters in line. Neither party wants broadcast media to be as adversarial to them as print or internet media, and the FCC and the licensing process is their best guarantee that won't happen.
Actually, one thing that annoys me is that Democrats claim that the Republicans are to blame for the excesses of the FCC. Yes, Bush can't run away from the Powell nomination, but Powell hasn't operated in a vacuum.
A couple people asked "Where are the Democrats?" Well, I'll tell you where they are. They're on the floor of the Senate giving "Me, too" speeches about how the airwaves have to be cleaned up, and casting votes to raise "indecency" fines. And when broadcasters turn to Democrats to say that the FCC is out of control, the Democrats reply by saying, "Hey, if we can use this indecency hysteria to advance our delusional 'media consolidation' gripes, we're all for it."
It would be a little more credible for you guys to get all indignant about the Powell FCC if your candidate had said one word about it during the recent campaign. It would be more credible if a couple of Democrat Senators would get up one morning, walk out on to the Senate floor, and defend Howard Stern.
Neither major party will significantly clip the wings of the FCC because BOTH parties rely on it, or the threat of it, to keep broadcasters in line. Neither party wants broadcast media to be as adversarial to them as print or internet media, and the FCC and the licensing process is their best guarantee that won't happen.
Incog; Maybe CBS could be had for a fair price...
Incog; Maybe CBS could be had for a fair price...
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Pollen Boy
I don't think Falwell's absurd pronouncements have hurt him at all. He's still booked by the media all the time. The wingers look straight past them blowing and going, ripping and running without any sense of embarassment.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Pollen Boy
I don't think Falwell's absurd pronouncements have hurt him at all. He's still booked by the media all the time. The wingers look straight past them blowing and going, ripping and running without any sense of embarassment.
I have so totally grown to despise Christianity.
I don't despise Christianity, but I am angry with my church because my pastor voted for Bush and refused to read the info I sent him to help him make an informed decision, rather than a "gut" decision. I see him and his church as symbolic of what's wrong with Americans. They are too uninformed and too lazy to check out the facts, finding it easier to call me a looney tune and a conspiracy theorist. Had my pastor come back with solid, fact-based reasons why he voted for Bush, I could accept that, although you and I know there aren't any facts about anything good Bush has done for this country. My pastor believes that Democrats are radicals -- he actually called John Kerry is an extremist!
I have been told, though, that other people in the church have been turned off by this pastor's open support of the Prez, so all is not lost.
I figure it doesn't matter where I worship, all churches are pretty much going to be the same. So, I only actively support very few of its programs.
I have so totally grown to despise Christianity.
I don't despise Christianity, but I am angry with my church because my pastor voted for Bush and refused to read the info I sent him to help him make an informed decision, rather than a "gut" decision. I see him and his church as symbolic of what's wrong with Americans. They are too uninformed and too lazy to check out the facts, finding it easier to call me a looney tune and a conspiracy theorist. Had my pastor come back with solid, fact-based reasons why he voted for Bush, I could accept that, although you and I know there aren't any facts about anything good Bush has done for this country. My pastor believes that Democrats are radicals -- he actually called John Kerry is an extremist!
I have been told, though, that other people in the church have been turned off by this pastor's open support of the Prez, so all is not lost.
I figure it doesn't matter where I worship, all churches are pretty much going to be the same. So, I only actively support very few of its programs.
Oh, but NPRs own Kokie Roberts told me we are a nation of church-goers who voted for the church-going George Bush because he is always going to church.
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Oh, but NPRs own Kokie Roberts told me we are a nation of church-goers who voted for the church-going George Bush because he is always going to church.
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Yesterday morning, for the first time, I couldn't. It just felt like oppression to me. Really felt sad in a way that's hard to express.
It's always felt like oppression to me. I don't know why, but it has.
As for Falwell, he's made an ass of himself a million times over and no one cares. I can't tell you the times I've heard him dismiss evolution. And yet he continues to be booked on national TV because people still follow him. They're as much asses as he is.
So don't hold your breath that media will suddenly wake up and say, "what a buffoon!"
It's a little late for that.
Yesterday morning, for the first time, I couldn't. It just felt like oppression to me. Really felt sad in a way that's hard to express.
It's always felt like oppression to me. I don't know why, but it has.
As for Falwell, he's made an ass of himself a million times over and no one cares. I can't tell you the times I've heard him dismiss evolution. And yet he continues to be booked on national TV because people still follow him. They're as much asses as he is.
So don't hold your breath that media will suddenly wake up and say, "what a buffoon!"
It's a little late for that.
Hecate - You go. I blogged this yesterday but as it usually goes when I blog something and it is blogged here, it's done better here.
I so agree with Rich about this. This is the most straightfoward statement about this shit I have read from anyone in the media yet.
Rich is right.
Hecate - You go. I blogged this yesterday but as it usually goes when I blog something and it is blogged here, it's done better here.
I so agree with Rich about this. This is the most straightfoward statement about this shit I have read from anyone in the media yet.
Rich is right.
I am sick unto death at this "moral values" crap. I'm not a minister, or a practicing anything, but I had a Catholic education right through college. Let's see how we're doing on the 10 Commandments our red brothers spout on about:
1. No false God...except perhaps Mammon.
2. Only take the Lord's name in vain if you're bashing gays or propping up illegal wars.
3.Can't keep holy any day that might affect profits.
4. Take no advice from dad if it conflicts with neocon agenda.
5. Only kill brown people...and never grant clemency to someone on death row.
6. Adultery? Remember, divorce doesn't disolve marriage in the eyes of the church. Lot's of the big A out there, w of w/o said caveat.
7. Steal whatever you can...don't interpret thsi one too broadly.
8. Lie about eveything.
9. See #6.
10. See #7.
I love the smell of hypocracy in the AM...
I am sick unto death at this "moral values" crap. I'm not a minister, or a practicing anything, but I had a Catholic education right through college. Let's see how we're doing on the 10 Commandments our red brothers spout on about:
1. No false God...except perhaps Mammon.
2. Only take the Lord's name in vain if you're bashing gays or propping up illegal wars.
3.Can't keep holy any day that might affect profits.
4. Take no advice from dad if it conflicts with neocon agenda.
5. Only kill brown people...and never grant clemency to someone on death row.
6. Adultery? Remember, divorce doesn't disolve marriage in the eyes of the church. Lot's of the big A out there, w of w/o said caveat.
7. Steal whatever you can...don't interpret thsi one too broadly.
8. Lie about eveything.
9. See #6.
10. See #7.
I love the smell of hypocracy in the AM...
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It's Cheney's FauxOutragegate all over again.
It's Cheney's FauxOutragegate all over again.
Tena,
It's just amazing to me that these crazies have claimed some kind of victory out of these figures. It's just a flat-out lie, but no one is calling them on their lie.
Tena,
It's just amazing to me that these crazies have claimed some kind of victory out of these figures. It's just a flat-out lie, but no one is calling them on their lie.
"Moral values" is a redundant phrase. Morality means values. Anybody who doesn't apply their moral values to voting is by definition, depraved. Ergo, the poll question is idiotic.
I know my good friend Robert M. Jeffers is not going to like this, but in my view, the most urgent priority for people who want to discover morality is to repudiate religion. Religion is about people like Falwell and Dobson telling their followers what to think. And even if it's the wise and altruistic RMJ telling them, they're still being told. We need to find our own way. It's up to us, in consultation with our friends.
"Moral values" is a redundant phrase. Morality means values. Anybody who doesn't apply their moral values to voting is by definition, depraved. Ergo, the poll question is idiotic.
I know my good friend Robert M. Jeffers is not going to like this, but in my view, the most urgent priority for people who want to discover morality is to repudiate religion. Religion is about people like Falwell and Dobson telling their followers what to think. And even if it's the wise and altruistic RMJ telling them, they're still being told. We need to find our own way. It's up to us, in consultation with our friends.
Incognito, you say "we need a major network like CNN."
Let me remind you that on typical good days, CNN never reaches more than two or three million Americans. And these are Americans who actually want to be informed.
Other than that, sure--it'd be loverly to have more actual clout in the media, rather than just a majority of the steno-pool peons voting Democrat but reporting "neutrally."
Incognito, you say "we need a major network like CNN."
Let me remind you that on typical good days, CNN never reaches more than two or three million Americans. And these are Americans who actually want to be informed.
Other than that, sure--it'd be loverly to have more actual clout in the media, rather than just a majority of the steno-pool peons voting Democrat but reporting "neutrally."
fourlegsgood - You know, it doesn't matter if no one in the media thinks Falwell is a buffoon. The people of the country can make that determination for themselves and I think they largely do. Falwell is one of those smarmy fucks who are loved only by the terminally fucked up.
What Rich is saying is right - the media has taken this values thing and is milking it. That's why Falwell is all over the TV. It isn't that people are clamoring to hear and see the fat bastard, it's the media.
People are not as stupid as the media thinks they are. The country is not populated by a bunch of uptight church ladies. It's the fucking media and the stupid politicians who pay more attention to polls, maps and "experts" than they pay to us, their constituents.
fourlegsgood - You know, it doesn't matter if no one in the media thinks Falwell is a buffoon. The people of the country can make that determination for themselves and I think they largely do. Falwell is one of those smarmy fucks who are loved only by the terminally fucked up.
What Rich is saying is right - the media has taken this values thing and is milking it. That's why Falwell is all over the TV. It isn't that people are clamoring to hear and see the fat bastard, it's the media.
People are not as stupid as the media thinks they are. The country is not populated by a bunch of uptight church ladies. It's the fucking media and the stupid politicians who pay more attention to polls, maps and "experts" than they pay to us, their constituents.
Hecate;
There's no one to do the calling!
The so-called liberal media isn't of course; it's squarely in the pocket of the corporatists.
There's just us.
Hecate;
There's no one to do the calling!
The so-called liberal media isn't of course; it's squarely in the pocket of the corporatists.
There's just us.
Hecate - See my comment to fourlegsgood. This is a media phenomenon that Rove cooked up and they swallowed whole.
The problem with the Dems is that they look at the map and think they are going to lose their jobs unless they get on this non-existent band wagon.
They need to get their heads out of their asses and pay attention to real life.
Hecate - See my comment to fourlegsgood. This is a media phenomenon that Rove cooked up and they swallowed whole.
The problem with the Dems is that they look at the map and think they are going to lose their jobs unless they get on this non-existent band wagon.
They need to get their heads out of their asses and pay attention to real life.
The Democrats are floundering because they stand for the PAST.
We want to keep the status quo of previous years. The GOP wants to go even further into the past, to over 100 years ago type past. The mythical slavery era past.
Americans are being dragged into the 21st Century and we don't like it one bit. The thing we all want forever that is now in the past is cheap oil and cheap energy. So long as the people, the parties and the media agree that cheap oil is the goal of all Americans, we will have war, a weak dollar and a dim future. The future is NO CHEAP OIL FOREVER.
This, like many other economic issues, was not topic number one during the election! It is tied intimately into 9/11 and bin Laden, this oil stuff, and although 9/11 was talked about a lot, not a peep about oil or bin Laden!
The Democratic party not only must have a position about bin Laden....TALK ABOUT HIM EVERY DAY....the party has to talk about oil, too. EVERY DAY.
When the gasbags want to talk about morals, talk about bin Laden and oil! It is SO SIMPLE. If all Democrats could do this, the talk in the nation will turn to the real matters at hand.
The Democrats are floundering because they stand for the PAST.
We want to keep the status quo of previous years. The GOP wants to go even further into the past, to over 100 years ago type past. The mythical slavery era past.
Americans are being dragged into the 21st Century and we don't like it one bit. The thing we all want forever that is now in the past is cheap oil and cheap energy. So long as the people, the parties and the media agree that cheap oil is the goal of all Americans, we will have war, a weak dollar and a dim future. The future is NO CHEAP OIL FOREVER.
This, like many other economic issues, was not topic number one during the election! It is tied intimately into 9/11 and bin Laden, this oil stuff, and although 9/11 was talked about a lot, not a peep about oil or bin Laden!
The Democratic party not only must have a position about bin Laden....TALK ABOUT HIM EVERY DAY....the party has to talk about oil, too. EVERY DAY.
When the gasbags want to talk about morals, talk about bin Laden and oil! It is SO SIMPLE. If all Democrats could do this, the talk in the nation will turn to the real matters at hand.
I'm not too optimistic for my country this morning.
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Phredd | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 8:01 am
According to Gary Bauer, it qain't your country anymore Phredd. Whassamatta, you got adhd? You ain't shit anymore pal,unless you got the official Jesus stamp on your passport...Ida thought youda figgered that out by now...
I'm not too optimistic for my country this morning.
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Phredd | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 8:01 am
According to Gary Bauer, it qain't your country anymore Phredd. Whassamatta, you got adhd? You ain't shit anymore pal,unless you got the official Jesus stamp on your passport...Ida thought youda figgered that out by now...
cervantes - Would you consider that people don't have to reject religion altogether, but reject these rich, oil, Morality Merchants?
People will not reject their spirituality and that is a losing path to go down. But people do understand hypocrisy and large numbers of people do. Most people dislike this kind of bullshit morality.
They just do.
I keep citing this and I'm ignored - but when Fred Phelps rolled into Oklahoma a week or so ago to raise a stink about the young guy who lives in a small town there who is publicly gay and got involved with a gay rights group , the town told Phelps to get lost. The Baptist preacher at the kid's mother's church told Phelps to get lost from the pulpit.
Y'all buy into these ideas as thoroughly as Rove intends. The country is not full of a bunch of homophobic bigoted assholes. It just isn't.
cervantes - Would you consider that people don't have to reject religion altogether, but reject these rich, oil, Morality Merchants?
People will not reject their spirituality and that is a losing path to go down. But people do understand hypocrisy and large numbers of people do. Most people dislike this kind of bullshit morality.
They just do.
I keep citing this and I'm ignored - but when Fred Phelps rolled into Oklahoma a week or so ago to raise a stink about the young guy who lives in a small town there who is publicly gay and got involved with a gay rights group , the town told Phelps to get lost. The Baptist preacher at the kid's mother's church told Phelps to get lost from the pulpit.
Y'all buy into these ideas as thoroughly as Rove intends. The country is not full of a bunch of homophobic bigoted assholes. It just isn't.
Forget all the moral values crap, Kerry really won.
Forget all the moral values crap, Kerry really won.
The Party can't have "position papers" and then just leave it at that, we have to change the chat, change the view, change the parameters.
To do this, we have to talk about the things we want to talk about, no matter what. Just like I refuse to talk about religion or morals (both are PRIVATE MATTERS) I talk about public matters like the dollar, the debts, oil, war.
Kerry was a bad candidate because he didn't want to talk about why he gave war privilages to the dictator, he didn't say, "we are in Iraq so we can get oil by force or trickery" he didn't say, "stealing oil is bad for America, bad for the world" he didn't say, "oil is a finite resource we can't afford to waste, this is our only chance to build a world that doesn't need oil so much, we should preserve world oil supplies so our great grandchildren can have some".
Nope. He, like Bush, pretends oil is eternal and SUVs are normal and we can waste it to our heart's content forever.
This is dead wrong and pissed me off. The Hubbert Oil Peak is here, today. The clock is ticking louder and louder.
The Party can't have "position papers" and then just leave it at that, we have to change the chat, change the view, change the parameters.
To do this, we have to talk about the things we want to talk about, no matter what. Just like I refuse to talk about religion or morals (both are PRIVATE MATTERS) I talk about public matters like the dollar, the debts, oil, war.
Kerry was a bad candidate because he didn't want to talk about why he gave war privilages to the dictator, he didn't say, "we are in Iraq so we can get oil by force or trickery" he didn't say, "stealing oil is bad for America, bad for the world" he didn't say, "oil is a finite resource we can't afford to waste, this is our only chance to build a world that doesn't need oil so much, we should preserve world oil supplies so our great grandchildren can have some".
Nope. He, like Bush, pretends oil is eternal and SUVs are normal and we can waste it to our heart's content forever.
This is dead wrong and pissed me off. The Hubbert Oil Peak is here, today. The clock is ticking louder and louder.
should have been "rich, oily, Morality Merchants..."
should have been "rich, oily, Morality Merchants..."
Clear evidence of vote fraud in Ohio.
Clear evidence of vote fraud in Ohio.
"Moral values" is a redundant phrase. Morality means values. Anybody who doesn't apply their moral values to voting is by definition, depraved.
I've thought that "moral" is biblical and "values" is more secular. I think it's been more winger framing of an issue with Orwellian double-speak putting the two words together melding them together and spreading it widely. Remember folks, they have the best ad folks money can buy who think up the framing everyday in those spooky so-called "think-tanks" there on K Street in Washington DC.
"Moral values" is a redundant phrase. Morality means values. Anybody who doesn't apply their moral values to voting is by definition, depraved.
I've thought that "moral" is biblical and "values" is more secular. I think it's been more winger framing of an issue with Orwellian double-speak putting the two words together melding them together and spreading it widely. Remember folks, they have the best ad folks money can buy who think up the framing everyday in those spooky so-called "think-tanks" there on K Street in Washington DC.
Elaine - Kerry was not a bad candidate. Damn it. In the first place, he won the election, IMO. In the second place, even if we can't prove that, he still got the 2d largest number of votes in history. He ran a good campaign.
Elaine - Kerry was not a bad candidate. Damn it. In the first place, he won the election, IMO. In the second place, even if we can't prove that, he still got the 2d largest number of votes in history. He ran a good campaign.
Again, the Democrats have to appear in public with those irritating and very important GRAPHS AND CHARTS. The ones showing how oil is at a peak now and there ain't no more huge gusher fields in our future. Graphs showing the direct connection of the dying dollar and the deficit.
All sorts of important pictures clearly showing what is going wrong.
Again, the Democrats have to appear in public with those irritating and very important GRAPHS AND CHARTS. The ones showing how oil is at a peak now and there ain't no more huge gusher fields in our future. Graphs showing the direct connection of the dying dollar and the deficit.
All sorts of important pictures clearly showing what is going wrong.
OT
Anybody else feel the need for community right now? My husband and I drove past a Unitarian church yesterday, heard they were "progressive". We didn't go, but we are thinking about it. We are both refugees from conservative families.
OT
Anybody else feel the need for community right now? My husband and I drove past a Unitarian church yesterday, heard they were "progressive". We didn't go, but we are thinking about it. We are both refugees from conservative families.
HAW HAW HAW! This is GREAT. I can't wait until some mook brings up the whole "This election was about Moral Values"-thing with me... I'm printing this out so I can quote verbatim. That is too cool. Great find.
HAW HAW HAW! This is GREAT. I can't wait until some mook brings up the whole "This election was about Moral Values"-thing with me... I'm printing this out so I can quote verbatim. That is too cool. Great find.
texas - why would you even ask a bunch of people you don't know about what you should do about community and worship in your life?
texas - why would you even ask a bunch of people you don't know about what you should do about community and worship in your life?
RMJ: *...the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power*
Do they ever. They tried to beat us about the head and shoulders with the Clenis and registered a deep, sanctimonius disappointment when we didn't care.
I think the distinguishing characteristic of the media today is their collective laziness. It's easier to swing the hammer for the powers that be than to challenge them. The "Woodstein" style of investigative journalism is dead, dead, dead. They are even ignoring the low-hanging fruit, leaving it for topical comedians to scoop up.
RMJ: *...the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power*
Do they ever. They tried to beat us about the head and shoulders with the Clenis and registered a deep, sanctimonius disappointment when we didn't care.
I think the distinguishing characteristic of the media today is their collective laziness. It's easier to swing the hammer for the powers that be than to challenge them. The "Woodstein" style of investigative journalism is dead, dead, dead. They are even ignoring the low-hanging fruit, leaving it for topical comedians to scoop up.
Maybe. But Sharpton is treated like a crackpot in most of the media, while Falwell is generally treated with kid gloves. Likewise Dobson.
Why are these idiots given the time of day?
Because they're white, and Sharpton is not.
Do you remember the clip on the Daily Show last week, where George Stephanopolous dared to ask whether Radical Cleric James Dobson might actually be behaving in a not-entirely-Christian manner? Dobson got in a stupendous huff about it and acted like he (and he alone) could define what was Christian and what was not.
These goons have such inflated egos that it only takes the mildest needling to make them pop. We need to ridicule them publicly, loudly, at every opportunity. I wonder if someone would volunteer to follow one of these guys around and do a parody of them at every location they went to...
Maybe. But Sharpton is treated like a crackpot in most of the media, while Falwell is generally treated with kid gloves. Likewise Dobson.
Why are these idiots given the time of day?
Because they're white, and Sharpton is not.
Do you remember the clip on the Daily Show last week, where George Stephanopolous dared to ask whether Radical Cleric James Dobson might actually be behaving in a not-entirely-Christian manner? Dobson got in a stupendous huff about it and acted like he (and he alone) could define what was Christian and what was not.
These goons have such inflated egos that it only takes the mildest needling to make them pop. We need to ridicule them publicly, loudly, at every opportunity. I wonder if someone would volunteer to follow one of these guys around and do a parody of them at every location they went to...
The sheeple will renounce democracy, and all its associated protections, virtues and values, before they turn from their abject worship of talking snakes, chatting shrubbery, and virgin birth...fucking morons.
This is not my country anymore, folks.
The sheeple will renounce democracy, and all its associated protections, virtues and values, before they turn from their abject worship of talking snakes, chatting shrubbery, and virgin birth...fucking morons.
This is not my country anymore, folks.
The House recently passed legislation drastically increasing indecency fines on broadcasters. It passed this legislation 391-22.
The Sentate passed its version of the increase 99-1.
Based on these vote numbers, BOTH parties are parties of censorship. If you are a registered Democrat, you do NOT belong to the anti-censorship party. You are every bit as much to blame for the asinine Janet Jackson hype and STUPID "Monday Night Football" argument as Republicans are.
It boggles my mind that VIRTUALLY EVERY DEMOCRAT votes for the Patriot Act, and then you people act like it's a Republican problem. VIRTUALLY EVERY DEMOCRAT votes to bring the FCC back to the 50's, and then you people act like it's a Republican problem.
The House recently passed legislation drastically increasing indecency fines on broadcasters. It passed this legislation 391-22.
The Sentate passed its version of the increase 99-1.
Based on these vote numbers, BOTH parties are parties of censorship. If you are a registered Democrat, you do NOT belong to the anti-censorship party. You are every bit as much to blame for the asinine Janet Jackson hype and STUPID "Monday Night Football" argument as Republicans are.
It boggles my mind that VIRTUALLY EVERY DEMOCRAT votes for the Patriot Act, and then you people act like it's a Republican problem. VIRTUALLY EVERY DEMOCRAT votes to bring the FCC back to the 50's, and then you people act like it's a Republican problem.
I believe Kansas City actually voted Blue, it was rural Missouri that voted Red (unless their votes were padded as well). I think the "moral values" argument is a load of Rove crap, intended to change the subject, give an ego boost to the Christian right while simultaneously de-moralizing Dems (the Christian left?). How much time has been spent on this by both sides? It's very hard for me to argue about how and why we lost, when deep down I don't think we did.
I believe Kansas City actually voted Blue, it was rural Missouri that voted Red (unless their votes were padded as well). I think the "moral values" argument is a load of Rove crap, intended to change the subject, give an ego boost to the Christian right while simultaneously de-moralizing Dems (the Christian left?). How much time has been spent on this by both sides? It's very hard for me to argue about how and why we lost, when deep down I don't think we did.
The moral values stuff is nonsense. I think in polling it's the equivalent of "none of the above." If you can't (or won't) give a reason why you're voting the way you are, just say "moral values" and everybody goes away.
The problem is that the bible-thumpers latch onto these bogus numbers and claim that there now exists proof positive that the American public is eager to embrace creationism, flat earth, loving-Jesus slaughter of brown people, etc., etc. Maybe they're right, but the "moral values" polling b.s. sure doesn't prove it.
The moral values stuff is nonsense. I think in polling it's the equivalent of "none of the above." If you can't (or won't) give a reason why you're voting the way you are, just say "moral values" and everybody goes away.
The problem is that the bible-thumpers latch onto these bogus numbers and claim that there now exists proof positive that the American public is eager to embrace creationism, flat earth, loving-Jesus slaughter of brown people, etc., etc. Maybe they're right, but the "moral values" polling b.s. sure doesn't prove it.
Damn you reality-based liberals.
Damn you to hell!
Damn you reality-based liberals.
Damn you to hell!
What Robert Jeffers said a little upthread:
"This isn't about "moral values." It's the same old club, picked up once again as a way of wielding power. And the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power."
Thank you. You are exactly correct.
What Robert Jeffers said a little upthread:
"This isn't about "moral values." It's the same old club, picked up once again as a way of wielding power. And the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power."
Thank you. You are exactly correct.
Tena
I should have asked if anyone else was a Unitarian out there. Maybe this is the wrong place to ask such "personal" questions. My bad,LOL.
Tena
I should have asked if anyone else was a Unitarian out there. Maybe this is the wrong place to ask such "personal" questions. My bad,LOL.
God, even this morning on CNN, Soledad was interviewing 2 ministers from the deep South regarding Alabama's segregation law...
All of the sudden, at least since the election, conservative preachers are the "new" rock stars of the US.
Also, Incognito, Hecate, and anyone else following the Matthew Shepard story on 20/20, here's a link ~ the response posted on the Matthew Shepard Foundation Webpage by his parents:
http://www.matthewshepard.org/
20..._statement.html
Pretty sad.
It's hard work being back to work...I need an attitude readjustment stat!
God, even this morning on CNN, Soledad was interviewing 2 ministers from the deep South regarding Alabama's segregation law...
All of the sudden, at least since the election, conservative preachers are the "new" rock stars of the US.
Also, Incognito, Hecate, and anyone else following the Matthew Shepard story on 20/20, here's a link ~ the response posted on the Matthew Shepard Foundation Webpage by his parents:
http://www.matthewshepard.org/
20..._statement.html
Pretty sad.
It's hard work being back to work...I need an attitude readjustment stat!
And just to echo the Left Behind thread from a few days ago, they see us "screeching and howling" when judgement comes. Not screaming and crying, like humans might act.
Screeching and howling.
They see us as animals.
And just to echo the Left Behind thread from a few days ago, they see us "screeching and howling" when judgement comes. Not screaming and crying, like humans might act.
Screeching and howling.
They see us as animals.
texas,
I'm not a Unitarian, but have friends who are. Try them out; if you don't like it you don't have to go back. We all need community -- I find a lot of community feeling here at Eschaton.
texas,
I'm not a Unitarian, but have friends who are. Try them out; if you don't like it you don't have to go back. We all need community -- I find a lot of community feeling here at Eschaton.
Anybody else feel the need for community right now? My husband and I drove past a Unitarian church yesterday, heard they were "progressive". We didn't go, but we are thinking about it. We are both refugees from conservative families.
texas | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 9:29 am | #
Texas, you should by all means visit that UU congregation. Worst case, it's a waste of an hour of your time. Best case, you've just found an outstanding opportunity to network and to worship in a dignified, inclusive fashion.
Anybody else feel the need for community right now? My husband and I drove past a Unitarian church yesterday, heard they were "progressive". We didn't go, but we are thinking about it. We are both refugees from conservative families.
texas | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 9:29 am | #
Texas, you should by all means visit that UU congregation. Worst case, it's a waste of an hour of your time. Best case, you've just found an outstanding opportunity to network and to worship in a dignified, inclusive fashion.
Ya know why the Amendment to the Alabama Constitution failed?
Cuz it would have removed the segregation/apartheid stipulation that all children are NOT entitled to equal educational opportunity.
Ya know why the Amendment to the Alabama Constitution failed?
Cuz it would have removed the segregation/apartheid stipulation that all children are NOT entitled to equal educational opportunity.
Goddamn facts!
-
Goddamn facts!
-
Hecate and Bunker buster-
Thanks. Exactly the kind of response I expect from the people here. Hopefully my family will find some like-minded people out there.
Hecate and Bunker buster-
Thanks. Exactly the kind of response I expect from the people here. Hopefully my family will find some like-minded people out there.
Robert - what is disconcerting to me in the extreme is that no matter how many times you or I say this, and no matter how many times circumstances prove it, people still are buying the idea, here on the left, that half the country is just like Falwell and loves the guy.
People on both sides of this whole nonissue are continuing to make it an issue. From one side people are saying: we beat you on morality because you lefties don't have any. From the other, people are saying: this country is full of a bunch of fundie morons.
Both positions are extreme and are adhered to by people who refuse to see what is really going on. What is really going on, IMO, is that Rove is busy making it look like Bush has a mandate for his radical agenda. And people on both sides are buying it.
And cutting their own throats in the process.
Robert - what is disconcerting to me in the extreme is that no matter how many times you or I say this, and no matter how many times circumstances prove it, people still are buying the idea, here on the left, that half the country is just like Falwell and loves the guy.
People on both sides of this whole nonissue are continuing to make it an issue. From one side people are saying: we beat you on morality because you lefties don't have any. From the other, people are saying: this country is full of a bunch of fundie morons.
Both positions are extreme and are adhered to by people who refuse to see what is really going on. What is really going on, IMO, is that Rove is busy making it look like Bush has a mandate for his radical agenda. And people on both sides are buying it.
And cutting their own throats in the process.
20/20 has sacrificed years of professional journalistic ethics and values for a stab at revisionist history ... and ratings.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
HAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
HoooHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Man, some people are dumber than dog-shit, aren't they?
What the fuck did these folks expect? Honesty?
These are the Corporate State Media, folks...Who the fuck do they think they are kidding....http://www.matthewshepard.org/
2020_statement.html
20/20 has sacrificed years of professional journalistic ethics and values for a stab at revisionist history ... and ratings.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
HAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
HoooHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Man, some people are dumber than dog-shit, aren't they?
What the fuck did these folks expect? Honesty?
These are the Corporate State Media, folks...Who the fuck do they think they are kidding....http://www.matthewshepard.org/
2020_statement.html
Tena,
I think these figures show how correct you are. Americans aren't becoming more intollerant. Sure, some always have been and will continue to be, but when 40% of people voted based on moral issues, Bill Clinton won. When 35% of people voted based on moral issues, Al Gore won more votes than George Bush. When 22% of people voted based on moral issues, Bush won -- assuming that he wasn't Diebolded into place. Don't tell me that the religious right has some lock on "morals" or that they can deliver an election.
Tena,
I think these figures show how correct you are. Americans aren't becoming more intollerant. Sure, some always have been and will continue to be, but when 40% of people voted based on moral issues, Bill Clinton won. When 35% of people voted based on moral issues, Al Gore won more votes than George Bush. When 22% of people voted based on moral issues, Bush won -- assuming that he wasn't Diebolded into place. Don't tell me that the religious right has some lock on "morals" or that they can deliver an election.
Konopelli, I think they did expect honesty.
Konopelli, I think they did expect honesty.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
Fundie churchgoers love that, though, because it makes them feel both benevolent & superior. And, let's face it, powerful, like they're speaking for God. The private penitence of Catholicism and the liturgical (and undefined) confessions of other mainline faiths are way too discreet for fundamentalists... there's no thrill, no place for smugness, no humiliation to enjoy.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
Fundie churchgoers love that, though, because it makes them feel both benevolent & superior. And, let's face it, powerful, like they're speaking for God. The private penitence of Catholicism and the liturgical (and undefined) confessions of other mainline faiths are way too discreet for fundamentalists... there's no thrill, no place for smugness, no humiliation to enjoy.
assuming that he wasn't Diebolded into place
I have the feeling that is exactly what did happen.
I've been feeling depressed. First time in quite a while. I think the reality of the election is settling in. It'll be a struggle ~ 4 more years of this shit.
assuming that he wasn't Diebolded into place
I have the feeling that is exactly what did happen.
I've been feeling depressed. First time in quite a while. I think the reality of the election is settling in. It'll be a struggle ~ 4 more years of this shit.
Fundies are addicted to forgiving their own.
Fundies are addicted to forgiving their own.
But at least we now know what Rove's past cryptic pronouncements of the no-show at the voting booth by millions of fundies was all about now. Seems the rest turned out this time with the help of Diebold. Glad that's cleared up.
Give me a break. A fundie not voting? They could get hit by a MACK Truck and what's left of their severed arm would crawl to the voting booth.
But at least we now know what Rove's past cryptic pronouncements of the no-show at the voting booth by millions of fundies was all about now. Seems the rest turned out this time with the help of Diebold. Glad that's cleared up.
Give me a break. A fundie not voting? They could get hit by a MACK Truck and what's left of their severed arm would crawl to the voting booth.
Vicki:
I think they did expect honesty...
One question: Why?
Vicki:
I think they did expect honesty...
One question: Why?
Kerry was a MUZZLED candidate. He saw how Dean was savaged.
We can't let fear muzzle us. This is way too vital, the things the media doesn't want us to talk about. The media loves "moral" chat because this increases the sexual/lust parts of the population and allows the media to tittillate us even more, sets up interest in all those sex/lust/death shows like those morgue shows that are proliferating like crazy.
Kerry was a MUZZLED candidate. He saw how Dean was savaged.
We can't let fear muzzle us. This is way too vital, the things the media doesn't want us to talk about. The media loves "moral" chat because this increases the sexual/lust parts of the population and allows the media to tittillate us even more, sets up interest in all those sex/lust/death shows like those morgue shows that are proliferating like crazy.
Vicki Stein,
Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006.
Vicki Stein,
Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006.
Konopelli ~
naivete.
Konopelli ~
naivete.
Hecate - Thank you. I'm convinced this is so because it is the reality I live in.
I know that there are people who follow Falwell. There are people who follow Phelps. But they are such a small minority that it is amazing that the media has decided to make them the prevailing voice in this country. And that the pols listen.
I could kick every politician right square in the shins for believing this shit.
Hecate - Thank you. I'm convinced this is so because it is the reality I live in.
I know that there are people who follow Falwell. There are people who follow Phelps. But they are such a small minority that it is amazing that the media has decided to make them the prevailing voice in this country. And that the pols listen.
I could kick every politician right square in the shins for believing this shit.
I thought a bit about "why Democrats aren't responding". One thing is that liberals are so effectively cut out of the broadcast discourse and the print media are cutting us out too that it's our elected officials who carry the entire burden. The right has networks and thousands of mouthpieces on the air every day to further it's lies and hate mongering. It's clear that our elected officials can't do this and their job too.
The soloution isn't a perfect one but absent the much hoped for liberal networks we have got to take to the phones and do battle ourselves. It's really the work down in the muck that is really unpleasant and really irritating but which has to be done.
I thought a bit about "why Democrats aren't responding". One thing is that liberals are so effectively cut out of the broadcast discourse and the print media are cutting us out too that it's our elected officials who carry the entire burden. The right has networks and thousands of mouthpieces on the air every day to further it's lies and hate mongering. It's clear that our elected officials can't do this and their job too.
The soloution isn't a perfect one but absent the much hoped for liberal networks we have got to take to the phones and do battle ourselves. It's really the work down in the muck that is really unpleasant and really irritating but which has to be done.
Let's all give a round of applause for the results of vigorous American conservatism in the twenty-first century:
On "Meet the Press" 11/28/2004 -
Four male guests debate with male moderator whether women should have the right to an abortion.
Now that's progress!
Now, if we can just get Ginsburg and O'Connor to retire, so we can send Roe v. Wade back to the Supreme Court for proper consideration...
Let's all give a round of applause for the results of vigorous American conservatism in the twenty-first century:
On "Meet the Press" 11/28/2004 -
Four male guests debate with male moderator whether women should have the right to an abortion.
Now that's progress!
Now, if we can just get Ginsburg and O'Connor to retire, so we can send Roe v. Wade back to the Supreme Court for proper consideration...
However, we benefit from the moral values meme. It means the GOP will continue to veer off into wingnut territory. For Godsakes, don't stop them out of it.
As long as Democratic leadership doesn't buy into the moral values line, we're okay. It's even better as the GOP becomes the party of entrenched intolerance. If they try and push the fundie agenda too far, people will bolt their party en masse. If they don't push it enough, the fundies won't continue to support the GOP. Either way, its an electoral pickle.
However, we benefit from the moral values meme. It means the GOP will continue to veer off into wingnut territory. For Godsakes, don't stop them out of it.
As long as Democratic leadership doesn't buy into the moral values line, we're okay. It's even better as the GOP becomes the party of entrenched intolerance. If they try and push the fundie agenda too far, people will bolt their party en masse. If they don't push it enough, the fundies won't continue to support the GOP. Either way, its an electoral pickle.
A fundie not voting? They could get hit by a MACK Truck and what's left of their severed arm would crawl to the voting booth.
Incognito, what a visual! I expect to see something like that in Michael Moore's next movie!
A fundie not voting? They could get hit by a MACK Truck and what's left of their severed arm would crawl to the voting booth.
Incognito, what a visual! I expect to see something like that in Michael Moore's next movie!
The media likes the "morals" chat because they can pretend to be mortified and grovel and such, this INCREASES their audience who then see ads touting the various sex/death shows they run. Watch the ads! A moralist will bloviate, singing to the choir then there is an ad for CSI Red State America and the moral people go, "Oh, look at that sexy dead body! I have to learn the moral story behind it!" and voila! You have higher ratings.
The religious are always attracted to sex/death. It is the core of every religion! This is how our media moguls make their loot: pandering to this while pretending to be moral.
The media likes the "morals" chat because they can pretend to be mortified and grovel and such, this INCREASES their audience who then see ads touting the various sex/death shows they run. Watch the ads! A moralist will bloviate, singing to the choir then there is an ad for CSI Red State America and the moral people go, "Oh, look at that sexy dead body! I have to learn the moral story behind it!" and voila! You have higher ratings.
The religious are always attracted to sex/death. It is the core of every religion! This is how our media moguls make their loot: pandering to this while pretending to be moral.
The True Conservative can just kiss my ass. Or better yet, fuck off, loser conservative. You have an idiot in office. Why are you so unhappy?
The True Conservative can just kiss my ass. Or better yet, fuck off, loser conservative. You have an idiot in office. Why are you so unhappy?
Vicki:
Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006.
Don't hold your breath. Hope in one hand and piss in the other and see which one gets damp! Ain't gonna happen. No fuckin way. I'm giving 20-1 against Dems retaking the Senate, 100-1 against them retaking the House. Elections are shams, mere distractions from the real work of taking and holding power; public relations confections to fool the yokels, three-card monte, a shell-game... The franchise is meaningless, and has been since 2000. Forget it.
Unless you're willing to upset the applecart, that is...
Vicki:
Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006.
Don't hold your breath. Hope in one hand and piss in the other and see which one gets damp! Ain't gonna happen. No fuckin way. I'm giving 20-1 against Dems retaking the Senate, 100-1 against them retaking the House. Elections are shams, mere distractions from the real work of taking and holding power; public relations confections to fool the yokels, three-card monte, a shell-game... The franchise is meaningless, and has been since 2000. Forget it.
Unless you're willing to upset the applecart, that is...
texas - no, I just question why anyone would ask a bunch of strangers about which church they should go to. I find it weird.
Sorry, I don't intend to be rude.
texas - no, I just question why anyone would ask a bunch of strangers about which church they should go to. I find it weird.
Sorry, I don't intend to be rude.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
(OK, boomers, who can name the song/artist?)
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
(OK, boomers, who can name the song/artist?)
Tena -- geez, it takes about 2 minutes for 97 comments to separate a reply from it's inspiration.
Of course, people will have whatever spiritual feelings they have, I think that's great. But religion means an official system of doctrinal belief, based on authority, and accepted on faith, regardless of evidence.
I am for humanism and reason, and against religion. That doesn't mean I am also opposed to spirituality. A humanist perforce accepts and celebrates human feelings and aspirations.
To quote from The Life of Brian, "You're just going to have to work things out for yourselves." As opposed to letting somebody tell you what to think from the pulpit, or reading what to think from an ancient book.
Freedom from religion is the key to human survival in this century.
Tena -- geez, it takes about 2 minutes for 97 comments to separate a reply from it's inspiration.
Of course, people will have whatever spiritual feelings they have, I think that's great. But religion means an official system of doctrinal belief, based on authority, and accepted on faith, regardless of evidence.
I am for humanism and reason, and against religion. That doesn't mean I am also opposed to spirituality. A humanist perforce accepts and celebrates human feelings and aspirations.
To quote from The Life of Brian, "You're just going to have to work things out for yourselves." As opposed to letting somebody tell you what to think from the pulpit, or reading what to think from an ancient book.
Freedom from religion is the key to human survival in this century.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out? Are they so terrified that a Racist Radical Cleric like Dobson or Fallwell will call them "unchristian" that they can't even point out facts?
Um, well, I can think of no other explanation. Can you? Maybe we get what we deserve if we are letting them change the FACTS without rising up. Cause, you know, the facts are biased. You would think that we would be able to figure out a way to make progress, being that all the FACTS are on our side. Too bad our fear of being reality- and fact-based in actual public is trumping our obligation to tell the truth out loud. And this makes us better than them...how? And by "us", I mean our elected representatives. Let's throw down the gauntlet and let them know we are legion and we WILL NOT go away. Our grassroots efforts in this last election were awesome. We just need to energize a few, very few more. We can do this thing. We have too much to lose not to do it.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out? Are they so terrified that a Racist Radical Cleric like Dobson or Fallwell will call them "unchristian" that they can't even point out facts?
Um, well, I can think of no other explanation. Can you? Maybe we get what we deserve if we are letting them change the FACTS without rising up. Cause, you know, the facts are biased. You would think that we would be able to figure out a way to make progress, being that all the FACTS are on our side. Too bad our fear of being reality- and fact-based in actual public is trumping our obligation to tell the truth out loud. And this makes us better than them...how? And by "us", I mean our elected representatives. Let's throw down the gauntlet and let them know we are legion and we WILL NOT go away. Our grassroots efforts in this last election were awesome. We just need to energize a few, very few more. We can do this thing. We have too much to lose not to do it.
The only question here is, (given that the Atrios Fonz jumped the Shark already)
How did the Democrats trip themselves up again arguing over who has the moral high ground.
You'all are like blind dingoes, fighting for tainted meat tossed at you by your enemies.
It's like a kid with Tourettes barked "asshole" at a stadium of Democrats,
and the rest of the day was spent arguing over who he was talking about, and why he said it, and how you'all will try harder to be better. Simply,
your fluffy. Soft. Incapable of leadership.
And now you've got a Minister/Priest/
Terrorist on the job! Going Religious are ye? How sad.
You'll look like good Republicans by the next election.
Whatever happened to the Democrats I grew up with, convicted, compassionate, and intelligent?
Now this blog is run by Hecate, a leftover Keystone Kopper anarchist from the upper class, and RMJeffers, a blowhard cleric just perfect for your new "lost sheep" status.
What happened to the reality based thing?
Here's a quote to help ya get a little
real.
Thomas Paine-
"All national institutions of Churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, appear to me to be no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize powert and profit."
A nice quote. And so obvious.
Go get'em RMJ, it's time to terrify the bloggers here.
But remember, Freud thinks you are suffering from an illusion. Which is a nice way to say that your flat out crazy. On the minibus to stupidtown,
bringing your flock of suckers with you. Which god do you beleive in anyway? Allah? Yahweh? Shiva? Hanuman? If thouest beleive in a joke, thou becomes a joke.
Heaven is on earth. There is no God.
Anyone who tells you otherwise should be treated as insane.
So can the RMJ man, keep it "real"
as your tagline so judementally says.
The only question here is, (given that the Atrios Fonz jumped the Shark already)
How did the Democrats trip themselves up again arguing over who has the moral high ground.
You'all are like blind dingoes, fighting for tainted meat tossed at you by your enemies.
It's like a kid with Tourettes barked "asshole" at a stadium of Democrats,
and the rest of the day was spent arguing over who he was talking about, and why he said it, and how you'all will try harder to be better. Simply,
your fluffy. Soft. Incapable of leadership.
And now you've got a Minister/Priest/
Terrorist on the job! Going Religious are ye? How sad.
You'll look like good Republicans by the next election.
Whatever happened to the Democrats I grew up with, convicted, compassionate, and intelligent?
Now this blog is run by Hecate, a leftover Keystone Kopper anarchist from the upper class, and RMJeffers, a blowhard cleric just perfect for your new "lost sheep" status.
What happened to the reality based thing?
Here's a quote to help ya get a little
real.
Thomas Paine-
"All national institutions of Churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, appear to me to be no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize powert and profit."
A nice quote. And so obvious.
Go get'em RMJ, it's time to terrify the bloggers here.
But remember, Freud thinks you are suffering from an illusion. Which is a nice way to say that your flat out crazy. On the minibus to stupidtown,
bringing your flock of suckers with you. Which god do you beleive in anyway? Allah? Yahweh? Shiva? Hanuman? If thouest beleive in a joke, thou becomes a joke.
Heaven is on earth. There is no God.
Anyone who tells you otherwise should be treated as insane.
So can the RMJ man, keep it "real"
as your tagline so judementally says.
Oh, but NPRs own Kokie Roberts told me we are a nation of church-goers who voted for the church-going George Bush because he is always going to church.
Corkie Roberts is Dubya's human bidet.
Oh, but NPRs own Kokie Roberts told me we are a nation of church-goers who voted for the church-going George Bush because he is always going to church.
Corkie Roberts is Dubya's human bidet.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
The True Conservative
Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
Remember: Troll Feeding Times 6 AM - 7 AM.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
The True Conservative
Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
Remember: Troll Feeding Times 6 AM - 7 AM.
Incognito, what a visual! I expect to see something like that in Michael Moore's next movie!
Vicki Stein
Does that truly make sense what Rove said about "millions of fundies not voting"? Fundies could be run over by a huge MACK truck but their severed self-righteous indignant hand would fucking crawl on all fives to the voting booth.
Incognito, what a visual! I expect to see something like that in Michael Moore's next movie!
Vicki Stein
Does that truly make sense what Rove said about "millions of fundies not voting"? Fundies could be run over by a huge MACK truck but their severed self-righteous indignant hand would fucking crawl on all fives to the voting booth.
We all need community -- I find a lot of community feeling here at Eschaton.
I was beginning to feel that way till the whole red state-blue state beatdown started. As a staunch democrat living in a red state, I'm feeling pretty pummeled by the subgroup of blue staters who seem to feel it's okay to include me and other democrats in their shit-slinging.
A late night episode in an open thread here last week: fellow poster from Texas was describing how he felt after the floods we had early in the week. He was safe but freaked out and tired and the water had gotten into his house and done a lot of damage. Another-non-troll-poster replied to this post saying that as far as he was concerned, the whole state could drown. Not only did he not qualify that to except the personal experience of the original poster, he actually further disparaged that poster's experience, making light of his trauma.
I was surprised at the extent to which it bothered me. I'm a big girl and can take care of myself, but for the most part since then, I've stayed away from the blogs, concentrating on real-life community.
We all need community -- I find a lot of community feeling here at Eschaton.
I was beginning to feel that way till the whole red state-blue state beatdown started. As a staunch democrat living in a red state, I'm feeling pretty pummeled by the subgroup of blue staters who seem to feel it's okay to include me and other democrats in their shit-slinging.
A late night episode in an open thread here last week: fellow poster from Texas was describing how he felt after the floods we had early in the week. He was safe but freaked out and tired and the water had gotten into his house and done a lot of damage. Another-non-troll-poster replied to this post saying that as far as he was concerned, the whole state could drown. Not only did he not qualify that to except the personal experience of the original poster, he actually further disparaged that poster's experience, making light of his trauma.
I was surprised at the extent to which it bothered me. I'm a big girl and can take care of myself, but for the most part since then, I've stayed away from the blogs, concentrating on real-life community.
Yo, da trufe -- There is no call for being so hostile to good people who you happen to disagree with. That's not going to convince anybody.
Unlike RMJ I'm not a Christian, and unlike Hecate I'm not a pagan either, but we can still share the common ground that really matters, which is our understanding of what is right and just. I'd rather claim that common ground and work from there than insult people.
Yo, da trufe -- There is no call for being so hostile to good people who you happen to disagree with. That's not going to convince anybody.
Unlike RMJ I'm not a Christian, and unlike Hecate I'm not a pagan either, but we can still share the common ground that really matters, which is our understanding of what is right and just. I'd rather claim that common ground and work from there than insult people.
Who are Dobson and Falwell and why should I care what they say? They aren't elected leaders.
Follow the money.
Falwell rose to prominence based on self-aggrandizement, and the fact that he runs a big (i.e., "rich") church.
Dobson was finally listened to as a "spokesperson" because he sold so many books, and garnered such a large TV/radio audience (no idea if he has both, but....)
Nobody listens to Jim Wallis (of Sojourners), or Christian Century, or even the UCC (a very liberal "mainstream" Christian church), because they are not wealthy. Money=prominence. Wallis makes news only by hobnobbing with the wealthy (I have my critiques of him, sometimes); Christian Century doesn't sell enough magazines; and the UCC doesn't have enough mega-churches or publicity hungry pastors of mega-churches.
It's money that matters.
Who are Dobson and Falwell and why should I care what they say? They aren't elected leaders.
Follow the money.
Falwell rose to prominence based on self-aggrandizement, and the fact that he runs a big (i.e., "rich") church.
Dobson was finally listened to as a "spokesperson" because he sold so many books, and garnered such a large TV/radio audience (no idea if he has both, but....)
Nobody listens to Jim Wallis (of Sojourners), or Christian Century, or even the UCC (a very liberal "mainstream" Christian church), because they are not wealthy. Money=prominence. Wallis makes news only by hobnobbing with the wealthy (I have my critiques of him, sometimes); Christian Century doesn't sell enough magazines; and the UCC doesn't have enough mega-churches or publicity hungry pastors of mega-churches.
It's money that matters.
The person who best frames the issue wins the debate. The rubes think ALL abortions are "partial birth," all personal injury lawsuits are "frivilous," and "moral values" do not include honesty and integrity. The GOPers do indeed have the best media manipulators money can buy, and as long as the disinterested, anti-intellectual populace shows it will swallow ANYTHING, Bush and Cheney and their ilk will continue to shovel it while their patrons empty the treasury.
The person who best frames the issue wins the debate. The rubes think ALL abortions are "partial birth," all personal injury lawsuits are "frivilous," and "moral values" do not include honesty and integrity. The GOPers do indeed have the best media manipulators money can buy, and as long as the disinterested, anti-intellectual populace shows it will swallow ANYTHING, Bush and Cheney and their ilk will continue to shovel it while their patrons empty the treasury.
I'm going to wait to see what happens after the 20th, but I'm beginning to think that there will be nonstop talk about Roe v Wade and nothing done.
I'm hopeful, anyway, though I could see it being challenged and successfully, depending on what happens with Rehnquist. But I don't think it's going to be as easy as the fundies think it is.
They think they can waltz in and change it all. I think they are dreaming.
I'm going to wait to see what happens after the 20th, but I'm beginning to think that there will be nonstop talk about Roe v Wade and nothing done.
I'm hopeful, anyway, though I could see it being challenged and successfully, depending on what happens with Rehnquist. But I don't think it's going to be as easy as the fundies think it is.
They think they can waltz in and change it all. I think they are dreaming.
Tena,
I really wanted to see what the reaction was to the Unitarian church; I wasn't trying to get a recommendation. I thought it was a friendly forum. LOL
Tena,
I really wanted to see what the reaction was to the Unitarian church; I wasn't trying to get a recommendation. I thought it was a friendly forum. LOL
"Whatever happened to the Democrats I grew up with, convicted, compassionate, and intelligent? "
You mean the ones who learnt what a nasty, skulking fool you are and decided to tell you so?
What a nasty, skulking little fool you are. Intolerant, vain, ambitious and incompetent, all rolled into a package of aggression and irritating prolixy.
Gah. Go away. Or better, go frighten some toddlers.
"Whatever happened to the Democrats I grew up with, convicted, compassionate, and intelligent? "
You mean the ones who learnt what a nasty, skulking fool you are and decided to tell you so?
What a nasty, skulking little fool you are. Intolerant, vain, ambitious and incompetent, all rolled into a package of aggression and irritating prolixy.
Gah. Go away. Or better, go frighten some toddlers.
Murica's husband just tried to beat some sense into her, that's all. He can get sorta crazy what with all her yapping, don't you know? Murica's husband just wants what's best for Murica, but she just keeps disobeying him and that just makes him angry. Murica might leave for the shelter, but she'll be back.
Murica's husband just tried to beat some sense into her, that's all. He can get sorta crazy what with all her yapping, don't you know? Murica's husband just wants what's best for Murica, but she just keeps disobeying him and that just makes him angry. Murica might leave for the shelter, but she'll be back.
arguing with "da trufe" is a waste of energy. I highly recommend against it.
arguing with "da trufe" is a waste of energy. I highly recommend against it.
jeebs - I've felt battered, too. For one thing, I think that whole red state-blue state thing is a dead end. For another, I don't like having all my hard work and the hard work of others in states Kerry didn't carry being written off. I worked my ass off and so did lots of people here and we had an enormous victory in that Bush barely squeaked by here, where he used to live.
I hate that paradigm and I am convinced it is one that the right has constructed because it fits so nicely into their strategy. It is a Rush Limbaugh/Karl Rove construct that keeps the religious right stirred up and active. Liberals have jumped right into the trap. Fed right into Rove's plans. By being insufferable about Bush voters, we prove that Rush and Rove are right. For Pete's sake, think of some other way of referring to Bush voters than "morons." Misguided, deluded - ok. But this whole Moron America meme stinks, frankly.
jeebs - I've felt battered, too. For one thing, I think that whole red state-blue state thing is a dead end. For another, I don't like having all my hard work and the hard work of others in states Kerry didn't carry being written off. I worked my ass off and so did lots of people here and we had an enormous victory in that Bush barely squeaked by here, where he used to live.
I hate that paradigm and I am convinced it is one that the right has constructed because it fits so nicely into their strategy. It is a Rush Limbaugh/Karl Rove construct that keeps the religious right stirred up and active. Liberals have jumped right into the trap. Fed right into Rove's plans. By being insufferable about Bush voters, we prove that Rush and Rove are right. For Pete's sake, think of some other way of referring to Bush voters than "morons." Misguided, deluded - ok. But this whole Moron America meme stinks, frankly.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out? Are they so terrified that a Racist Radical Cleric like Dobson or Fallwell will call them "unchristian" that they can't even point out facts?
This question, and others basically asking "why don't the Democrats do something?" don't address the issue of the widespread futility we're all feeling.
When the fix is in at virtually every level and even the media is not only drinking the kool-aid, they are soaking in it, what is it we're supposed to do? Where do we do it? What do we use to do it? And further, who will be affected by our actions? Us and who else?
I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but we should figure out to make our actions count, how to make them actually have an impact, and stop preaching to the choir.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out? Are they so terrified that a Racist Radical Cleric like Dobson or Fallwell will call them "unchristian" that they can't even point out facts?
This question, and others basically asking "why don't the Democrats do something?" don't address the issue of the widespread futility we're all feeling.
When the fix is in at virtually every level and even the media is not only drinking the kool-aid, they are soaking in it, what is it we're supposed to do? Where do we do it? What do we use to do it? And further, who will be affected by our actions? Us and who else?
I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but we should figure out to make our actions count, how to make them actually have an impact, and stop preaching to the choir.
Robert - what is disconcerting to me in the extreme is that no matter how many times you or I say this, and no matter how many times circumstances prove it, people still are buying the idea, here on the left, that half the country is just like Falwell and loves the guy.
The very problem Jon Stewart was railing at Tucker Carlson about.
Shouting heads sell airtime. Anything that can't be cloven into a simplistic dichotomy is unworthy of public discussion.
As evidenced even by some of the posters around here (such as, this morning, "da trufe is rob.")
It's all so much easier when you can declare one side wrong and proceed to pound them with your imaginary big hammer. Much easier than thinking, anyway.
A problem that seems to be universal.
Robert - what is disconcerting to me in the extreme is that no matter how many times you or I say this, and no matter how many times circumstances prove it, people still are buying the idea, here on the left, that half the country is just like Falwell and loves the guy.
The very problem Jon Stewart was railing at Tucker Carlson about.
Shouting heads sell airtime. Anything that can't be cloven into a simplistic dichotomy is unworthy of public discussion.
As evidenced even by some of the posters around here (such as, this morning, "da trufe is rob.")
It's all so much easier when you can declare one side wrong and proceed to pound them with your imaginary big hammer. Much easier than thinking, anyway.
A problem that seems to be universal.
OT (?), USAToday has an article by Rita Rubin about a fat FDA thumb on the scientific scales.
Strangely, when I try to post the link, it gets blocked as looking like spam. (?)
Scuzzy bastards, all around.
-
OT (?), USAToday has an article by Rita Rubin about a fat FDA thumb on the scientific scales.
Strangely, when I try to post the link, it gets blocked as looking like spam. (?)
Scuzzy bastards, all around.
-
Jeebs,
I think a healthy balance of the two is what's in order. I remember that thread, and was equally pissed off by the lack of empathy for Rorschach (it was Rorshach, right?) and the other Texans who were suffering during the torrential rains.
Most of us understand that the map is not red or blue, but purple, and that it is equally frustrating to be a blue voter in a red state as it is to be part of "The United States of Canada". I was guilty right after the election for talking secession, etc., but that was anger talking, nothing more.
We need to stick together to fight. Healthy debate is one thing, but kneecapping really is out of order.
Jeebs,
I think a healthy balance of the two is what's in order. I remember that thread, and was equally pissed off by the lack of empathy for Rorschach (it was Rorshach, right?) and the other Texans who were suffering during the torrential rains.
Most of us understand that the map is not red or blue, but purple, and that it is equally frustrating to be a blue voter in a red state as it is to be part of "The United States of Canada". I was guilty right after the election for talking secession, etc., but that was anger talking, nothing more.
We need to stick together to fight. Healthy debate is one thing, but kneecapping really is out of order.
Freedom from religion is the key to human survival in this century.
cervantes
The calculations given by great mathematicians for that escape from inspired destruction of civilization is only 50/50. That's a coin toss.
Freedom from religion is the key to human survival in this century.
cervantes
The calculations given by great mathematicians for that escape from inspired destruction of civilization is only 50/50. That's a coin toss.
Be careful. I'm a liberal atheist, but I'm not willing to defend the trash that's on TV and in the movies today. If that's what this is all about, let them do it. If the media guys have to come up with entertainment that has some content beyond sex and violence, I will be happier myself.
If we want to be known as the defenders of sleazy TV, no one will be on our side. There are more red state rednecks that want this crap than there are liberals. Let the ayatollahs ban it. It will reduce their support immediately. I can live without juvenile TV sex fantasies for the rest of my life, personally.
Be careful. I'm a liberal atheist, but I'm not willing to defend the trash that's on TV and in the movies today. If that's what this is all about, let them do it. If the media guys have to come up with entertainment that has some content beyond sex and violence, I will be happier myself.
If we want to be known as the defenders of sleazy TV, no one will be on our side. There are more red state rednecks that want this crap than there are liberals. Let the ayatollahs ban it. It will reduce their support immediately. I can live without juvenile TV sex fantasies for the rest of my life, personally.
And as far as the whole "morality" question, this is once again A) the mainstream media spinning a yarn and B) the Dems failing to spin one.
Americans see social justice and environmentalism as moral issues. Polls have demonstrated that. So, here, again, the GOP has managed to produce a narrative by which "morality" equals anti-choice and anti-gay marriage.
Load o' crap.
And as far as the whole "morality" question, this is once again A) the mainstream media spinning a yarn and B) the Dems failing to spin one.
Americans see social justice and environmentalism as moral issues. Polls have demonstrated that. So, here, again, the GOP has managed to produce a narrative by which "morality" equals anti-choice and anti-gay marriage.
Load o' crap.
texas - If you don't like me or my comments, please feel free to ignore them.
It is an open forum.
Plus, I apologized.
texas - If you don't like me or my comments, please feel free to ignore them.
It is an open forum.
Plus, I apologized.
Rove v Wade: in the Great Die Off, when most humans either starve to death or are blown up in WWIII over declining oil reserves, abortion won't even be on the map anymore.
The radiation effects will cause way too many natural abortions.
Rove v Wade: in the Great Die Off, when most humans either starve to death or are blown up in WWIII over declining oil reserves, abortion won't even be on the map anymore.
The radiation effects will cause way too many natural abortions.
Does that truly make sense what Rove said about "millions of fundies not voting"?
If it were true, it would certainly say something about the American right: offended by drunk driving; aroused by unprovoked war and torture.
Does that truly make sense what Rove said about "millions of fundies not voting"?
If it were true, it would certainly say something about the American right: offended by drunk driving; aroused by unprovoked war and torture.
Quentin:
I just posted a bit on the FDA and Vioxx on my blog here.
Nasty business...
Quentin:
I just posted a bit on the FDA and Vioxx on my blog here.
Nasty business...
Jeebs, the red state/blue state thing is getting on my nerves, too. I live in a conservative city in a "blue state" (am really starting to hate that term, note to self ~ quit using it!) and am amazed at the number of folks who write to the local paper bragging about their "red state" values and how liberals are evil (seriously ~ it is the most mundane and unsubstantiated argument that I have ever read, yet it seems to have resonance with some of the folks who are proud to have voted for the simian). Regardless, a mandate for the Christian right on values is ludicrous.
Jeebs, the red state/blue state thing is getting on my nerves, too. I live in a conservative city in a "blue state" (am really starting to hate that term, note to self ~ quit using it!) and am amazed at the number of folks who write to the local paper bragging about their "red state" values and how liberals are evil (seriously ~ it is the most mundane and unsubstantiated argument that I have ever read, yet it seems to have resonance with some of the folks who are proud to have voted for the simian). Regardless, a mandate for the Christian right on values is ludicrous.
If we want to be known as the defenders of sleazy TV...
we should be the defenders of it. the fact that it repulses, but is not truly profane, means it should be afforded the most visible protection.
If we want to be known as the defenders of sleazy TV...
we should be the defenders of it. the fact that it repulses, but is not truly profane, means it should be afforded the most visible protection.
jeebs - what can we do? The only thing I can think of is to make ourselves heard.
It's tedious, it takes time, but that's how the right has done it. We write, we complain, we point out where things are not as they have been represented to be. We do that consistently and in numbers, and we will make a difference. But it won't happen tomorrow. It will take a real effort.
We have a good start on it. Sinclair was brilliant. We hammer the media. And we let the Congressional Dems know how we feel by supporting them when they act like the opposition, and bitching when they don't.
jeebs - what can we do? The only thing I can think of is to make ourselves heard.
It's tedious, it takes time, but that's how the right has done it. We write, we complain, we point out where things are not as they have been represented to be. We do that consistently and in numbers, and we will make a difference. But it won't happen tomorrow. It will take a real effort.
We have a good start on it. Sinclair was brilliant. We hammer the media. And we let the Congressional Dems know how we feel by supporting them when they act like the opposition, and bitching when they don't.
Maybe the MM knows their days are numbered in the Repub party. Robertson tried to stab Shrub in the back just days before the election with the Iraq War comments. Rove has been furiously back pedalling from the meme that the Fundies won this election so he doesn't have to play pay-back with them. It will be a treat to see Rove dance this dance.
Maybe the MM knows their days are numbered in the Repub party. Robertson tried to stab Shrub in the back just days before the election with the Iraq War comments. Rove has been furiously back pedalling from the meme that the Fundies won this election so he doesn't have to play pay-back with them. It will be a treat to see Rove dance this dance.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
As far as I'm concerned, everything that happens in the next 4 years is their fault. I'm not about to molly-coddle these people.
Al of the above, of course, only applies if the election was NOT Diebolded. If it was, we're all victims.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
As far as I'm concerned, everything that happens in the next 4 years is their fault. I'm not about to molly-coddle these people.
Al of the above, of course, only applies if the election was NOT Diebolded. If it was, we're all victims.
I can live without juvenile TV sex fantasies for the rest of my life, personally.
there is an off button and a change channel button on your tv fwiw.
I can live without juvenile TV sex fantasies for the rest of my life, personally.
there is an off button and a change channel button on your tv fwiw.
Jamais Vu,
You've got an off button on your tv, right? I don't like censorship even of stuff I don't want to watch (and I watch almost no tv at all). They may start with stuff you don't care for, but they won't stop there. Censorship, especially by a bunch of self-proclaimed morality mavens, is never a good idea.
Jamais Vu,
You've got an off button on your tv, right? I don't like censorship even of stuff I don't want to watch (and I watch almost no tv at all). They may start with stuff you don't care for, but they won't stop there. Censorship, especially by a bunch of self-proclaimed morality mavens, is never a good idea.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
I'm not sure such an animal exists. Although if one does, then it surely must make for an interesting debate.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
I'm not sure such an animal exists. Although if one does, then it surely must make for an interesting debate.
It's just amazing to me that these crazies have claimed some kind of victory out of these figures. It's just a flat-out lie, but no one is calling them on their lie.
Of course not; because it's worse than that.
This lie began with the media. The day after the election (which is still not decided, but don't tell the media that, either, it would provoke a crisis!), the media was reporting that "moral values" was the deciding factor. Actually, as they accurately reported (but later ignored), "moral values" surprised some analysts as even being an issue. Casting about for an explanation of "wha' happen'?", the media moguls struck on that one and, being the owners of the megaphone, kept repeating is ad nauseum.
The Falwells and Dobsons just picked up on it. After all, they know better than to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Which means, of course, the situation really is bad. Argh. This is depressing. Time to go grade papers (and when it's that depressing.....)
It's just amazing to me that these crazies have claimed some kind of victory out of these figures. It's just a flat-out lie, but no one is calling them on their lie.
Of course not; because it's worse than that.
This lie began with the media. The day after the election (which is still not decided, but don't tell the media that, either, it would provoke a crisis!), the media was reporting that "moral values" was the deciding factor. Actually, as they accurately reported (but later ignored), "moral values" surprised some analysts as even being an issue. Casting about for an explanation of "wha' happen'?", the media moguls struck on that one and, being the owners of the megaphone, kept repeating is ad nauseum.
The Falwells and Dobsons just picked up on it. After all, they know better than to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Which means, of course, the situation really is bad. Argh. This is depressing. Time to go grade papers (and when it's that depressing.....)
texas- i'm glad you got a response that assured your "seek and ye shall find" request. some people that post back act as if they know all the answers and therefore you should too. or worse that your opinion is not worthy of this space ( and i'm not talking about deliberate jerks)
texas- i'm glad you got a response that assured your "seek and ye shall find" request. some people that post back act as if they know all the answers and therefore you should too. or worse that your opinion is not worthy of this space ( and i'm not talking about deliberate jerks)
This is depressing. Time to go grade papers (and when it's that depressing.....)
Oy. That is bad.
I've mentioned this in comments threads yesterday, but gotten no real reaction, and it seems to me a very important story that is doomed to be ignored by the US media:
Libya, our new good buddies who disarmed when we said so, has been seeking nuclear capability:
Authorities hunting traffickers in nuclear weapons technology recently uncovered an audacious plan to deliver a complete uranium enrichment plant to Libya.
...
Details of the plot began to emerge in September, when police found the elements of a two-storey steel processing system for the enrichment plant in a factory outside Johannesburg. They were packed in 11 freight containers for shipment to Libya.
South African officials will say only that they discovered nuclear components. It appears, however, that the massive system was designed to operate 1000 centrifuges for enriching uranium.
Once assembled in Libya, the plant could have produced enough weapons-grade uranium to manufacture several nuclear bombs a year. Delivery of the plant would have greatly accelerated Libya's efforts to develop nuclear weapons.
Seems pretty damn huge to me.
This is depressing. Time to go grade papers (and when it's that depressing.....)
Oy. That is bad.
I've mentioned this in comments threads yesterday, but gotten no real reaction, and it seems to me a very important story that is doomed to be ignored by the US media:
Libya, our new good buddies who disarmed when we said so, has been seeking nuclear capability:
Authorities hunting traffickers in nuclear weapons technology recently uncovered an audacious plan to deliver a complete uranium enrichment plant to Libya.
...
Details of the plot began to emerge in September, when police found the elements of a two-storey steel processing system for the enrichment plant in a factory outside Johannesburg. They were packed in 11 freight containers for shipment to Libya.
South African officials will say only that they discovered nuclear components. It appears, however, that the massive system was designed to operate 1000 centrifuges for enriching uranium.
Once assembled in Libya, the plant could have produced enough weapons-grade uranium to manufacture several nuclear bombs a year. Delivery of the plant would have greatly accelerated Libya's efforts to develop nuclear weapons.
Seems pretty damn huge to me.
blakNo1 - I am not presuming to tell you what opinion to have. But I do believe that opinions need to have some basis in fact.
This is what I'm talking about - this red-blue thing is not factual. There are fundies and people who are sick with religion in this country. But there are not enough of them to have carried Bush into office on their votes alone.
We don't have to agree with people who voted for Bush and we are free to think they made a huge mistake. But dividing the country up into morons and smart people, especially based on a fucking election map in a rigged election, is just stupid, IMHO.
blakNo1 - I am not presuming to tell you what opinion to have. But I do believe that opinions need to have some basis in fact.
This is what I'm talking about - this red-blue thing is not factual. There are fundies and people who are sick with religion in this country. But there are not enough of them to have carried Bush into office on their votes alone.
We don't have to agree with people who voted for Bush and we are free to think they made a huge mistake. But dividing the country up into morons and smart people, especially based on a fucking election map in a rigged election, is just stupid, IMHO.
Morality has so very little to do with the "game of governments".
Morality has so very little to do with the "game of governments".
If Bush was "Diebolded" into place, could someone please tell me how four years,or two years from now will matter? Won't the same thing just happen again? It seems to me we are zero for three in stolen elections and I honestly can not see any way for things to change; I would ove to have the optimism that some like Tena have, but I don't. I feel worse than I did on Nov. 3rd.
If Bush was "Diebolded" into place, could someone please tell me how four years,or two years from now will matter? Won't the same thing just happen again? It seems to me we are zero for three in stolen elections and I honestly can not see any way for things to change; I would ove to have the optimism that some like Tena have, but I don't. I feel worse than I did on Nov. 3rd.
Nuthin' to see here...I've looked in ta KhadaFee's soul. He's like my brown buddy, Foxy, they're all good.
Nuthin' to see here...I've looked in ta KhadaFee's soul. He's like my brown buddy, Foxy, they're all good.
Jerry Falwell's fat twinkie eating ass has "all the answers."
Jerry Falwell's fat twinkie eating ass has "all the answers."
BlakNo1, if your post is referring to the red-blue discussion:
put the blame where it belongs-on the people who voted for Bush, not their neighbors who did not. Not the whole state.
If you want to simplistically blame entire states, stick to the 3 or 4 that actually were ALL red.
I don't want to reach across any aisles right now either. I don't want to work with the 'Pukes at all.
I especially don't want to be grouped with them by other democrats. I don't want to have my progressive values and my hard work for the democratic party ignored by people who are too ignorant to understand that simply living in a red state doesn't make someone complicit in the 'Puke regime.
I will not be silent about being bashed by fellow democrats simply because I choose to live in a red state.
squirrel - Thanks.
BlakNo1, if your post is referring to the red-blue discussion:
put the blame where it belongs-on the people who voted for Bush, not their neighbors who did not. Not the whole state.
If you want to simplistically blame entire states, stick to the 3 or 4 that actually were ALL red.
I don't want to reach across any aisles right now either. I don't want to work with the 'Pukes at all.
I especially don't want to be grouped with them by other democrats. I don't want to have my progressive values and my hard work for the democratic party ignored by people who are too ignorant to understand that simply living in a red state doesn't make someone complicit in the 'Puke regime.
I will not be silent about being bashed by fellow democrats simply because I choose to live in a red state.
squirrel - Thanks.
Seems pretty damn huge to me.
Only if the President says so, I guess....
When nuclear proliferation is only a problem if it involves the President's narrow political platform....well, we can only hope those statistics Atrios cited in a a posting yesterday mean the GOP is going to face a lot of resistance from behind starting in January.....
Seems pretty damn huge to me.
Only if the President says so, I guess....
When nuclear proliferation is only a problem if it involves the President's narrow political platform....well, we can only hope those statistics Atrios cited in a a posting yesterday mean the GOP is going to face a lot of resistance from behind starting in January.....
I'm not a big fan of the "moral values" wording in a closed-end most-important-issues list, but Frank Rich makes an invalid comparison in the text hecate bold-faced:
In 1996, when 40 percent of Americans based their votes on "moral values," they re-elected Bill Clinton. Now that the number of Americans who base their votes on "moral values" has been cut almost in half, they selected George Bush.
The 1996 figure comes from the national Los Angeles Times exit poll. (The networks' exit poll didn't ask "moral values" or anything like it in the issues list before this year.) But the LA Times question allows respondents to select up to TWO responses (from a list of 11 plus "none of the above"). The 2004 National Election Pool survey allows respondents to check only ONE response (from a list of seven).
LA Times 1996 exit poll data and question wording
National Election Pool 2004 exit poll data and question wording (via CBS News)
I'm not a big fan of the "moral values" wording in a closed-end most-important-issues list, but Frank Rich makes an invalid comparison in the text hecate bold-faced:
In 1996, when 40 percent of Americans based their votes on "moral values," they re-elected Bill Clinton. Now that the number of Americans who base their votes on "moral values" has been cut almost in half, they selected George Bush.
The 1996 figure comes from the national Los Angeles Times exit poll. (The networks' exit poll didn't ask "moral values" or anything like it in the issues list before this year.) But the LA Times question allows respondents to select up to TWO responses (from a list of 11 plus "none of the above"). The 2004 National Election Pool survey allows respondents to check only ONE response (from a list of seven).
LA Times 1996 exit poll data and question wording
National Election Pool 2004 exit poll data and question wording (via CBS News)
Oh, if the election was rigged, then all the punditry about morality means nothing.
If not, then I should point out that 35% of Massachusetts went for The Chimp as well, making maps, except the purple ones, meaningless.
But, either way, a moron is a moron is a moron and if you voted for Bush, that's what you are IMAO, no matter if you're misguided or not.
Oh, if the election was rigged, then all the punditry about morality means nothing.
If not, then I should point out that 35% of Massachusetts went for The Chimp as well, making maps, except the purple ones, meaningless.
But, either way, a moron is a moron is a moron and if you voted for Bush, that's what you are IMAO, no matter if you're misguided or not.
The 1996 figure comes from the national Los Angeles Times exit poll. (The networks' exit poll didn't ask "moral values" or anything like it in the issues list before this year.) But the LA Times question allows respondents to select up to TWO responses (from a list of 11 plus "none of the above"). The 2004 National Election Pool survey allows respondents to check only ONE response (from a list of seven).
Excellent point.
Yes, it's the old "apples v. oranges" gambit again, because lorry nose (Churchy LaFemme) that discussing numbers like this causes the MEGO effect, and we can't have that, so let's simplify things beyond recognition and ignore the hard data that makes our "soft data" absolutely imaginary.
The 1996 figure comes from the national Los Angeles Times exit poll. (The networks' exit poll didn't ask "moral values" or anything like it in the issues list before this year.) But the LA Times question allows respondents to select up to TWO responses (from a list of 11 plus "none of the above"). The 2004 National Election Pool survey allows respondents to check only ONE response (from a list of seven).
Excellent point.
Yes, it's the old "apples v. oranges" gambit again, because lorry nose (Churchy LaFemme) that discussing numbers like this causes the MEGO effect, and we can't have that, so let's simplify things beyond recognition and ignore the hard data that makes our "soft data" absolutely imaginary.
Somewhat OT -- Mel is donating his earnings to charity, right? RIGHT?
Mel Gibson has earned a staggering $414 million from his controversial pet project The Passion Of The Christ. Gibson's earnings are likely to increase with DVD and pay-per-view television sales of the film, which was only released in American cinemas nine months ago, before going on to be screened around the world. Movie analyst Tim Briody says, "It's the all-time highest grosser of a film not released in the summer or holidays." The movie, which documents Jesus Christ's final hours on earth, profited from a publicity storm whipped up before its release - some critics criticized its graphic violence, while others branded it anti-Semitic.
Somewhat OT -- Mel is donating his earnings to charity, right? RIGHT?
Mel Gibson has earned a staggering $414 million from his controversial pet project The Passion Of The Christ. Gibson's earnings are likely to increase with DVD and pay-per-view television sales of the film, which was only released in American cinemas nine months ago, before going on to be screened around the world. Movie analyst Tim Briody says, "It's the all-time highest grosser of a film not released in the summer or holidays." The movie, which documents Jesus Christ's final hours on earth, profited from a publicity storm whipped up before its release - some critics criticized its graphic violence, while others branded it anti-Semitic.
rorschach - I saw that story about Libya yesterday.
Looks as though another one of Bush's "triumphs of the Will" is really a will-o-the-wisp.
rorschach - I saw that story about Libya yesterday.
Looks as though another one of Bush's "triumphs of the Will" is really a will-o-the-wisp.
Now that's what I'm talking about!
"Shouting heads sell airtime. Anything that can't be cloven into a simplistic dichotomy is unworthy of public discussion.
As evidenced even by some of the posters around here (such as, this morning, "da trufe is rob.")"
I have cloven a simplistic dichotomy!
(not bad for a monday)
I missed all that jazz at Seminary School Judge Jeffers!
But, feel free to weave your web, use your intellect, to further screw the people with your religious terror. You are the worst kind of human I know. A judger of others, using the imprimatur of your God to cow the heathens. You sir, are a dangerous man. A cleric, with a brain, who by default is insane.
Who is your God man? Which do you choose? And thereby condemn the rest of us to hell! Are you Christian?
Do you believe in Armageddon? Am I going to burn up at the Second Coming for not beleiving in the deity of Christ.
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within"
There is no God. Grow up people.
But RMJ, seriously, who is your God, is he the angry guy who directed Joshua to kill every man woman and child in Jericho?
Is it the guy who sent the Jews into the desert one year for every that Moses spies stayed in Canaan?
The guy who killed all the first born children in Egypt.
Is that your man? Do be honest. Do be truthful. Try and answer my simple question without wrapping it up in your web of lexicon.
Who is your God?
Or have you not enough faith, enough courage, enough balls, to answer me.
Nice work though, this board got itslef a priest. To bolster the "moral" content I suppose.
You all fancy yourself as Democrats.
Misfit whiners is more like it.
But now you have installed RMJ, so God is on your side.
I love that Arthur C. Clarke dismissed religion as a manifestation of the infancy of our our race. We sure got a lot of big ass babies in this country!
I won't bother you anymore today though. My dissent, while considered the lifblood of democracy by thoise with a working nougat, causes to much distress in your hostage like minds.
You are all hostages!
Be free!
and bye bye!
Now that's what I'm talking about!
"Shouting heads sell airtime. Anything that can't be cloven into a simplistic dichotomy is unworthy of public discussion.
As evidenced even by some of the posters around here (such as, this morning, "da trufe is rob.")"
I have cloven a simplistic dichotomy!
(not bad for a monday)
I missed all that jazz at Seminary School Judge Jeffers!
But, feel free to weave your web, use your intellect, to further screw the people with your religious terror. You are the worst kind of human I know. A judger of others, using the imprimatur of your God to cow the heathens. You sir, are a dangerous man. A cleric, with a brain, who by default is insane.
Who is your God man? Which do you choose? And thereby condemn the rest of us to hell! Are you Christian?
Do you believe in Armageddon? Am I going to burn up at the Second Coming for not beleiving in the deity of Christ.
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within"
There is no God. Grow up people.
But RMJ, seriously, who is your God, is he the angry guy who directed Joshua to kill every man woman and child in Jericho?
Is it the guy who sent the Jews into the desert one year for every that Moses spies stayed in Canaan?
The guy who killed all the first born children in Egypt.
Is that your man? Do be honest. Do be truthful. Try and answer my simple question without wrapping it up in your web of lexicon.
Who is your God?
Or have you not enough faith, enough courage, enough balls, to answer me.
Nice work though, this board got itslef a priest. To bolster the "moral" content I suppose.
You all fancy yourself as Democrats.
Misfit whiners is more like it.
But now you have installed RMJ, so God is on your side.
I love that Arthur C. Clarke dismissed religion as a manifestation of the infancy of our our race. We sure got a lot of big ass babies in this country!
I won't bother you anymore today though. My dissent, while considered the lifblood of democracy by thoise with a working nougat, causes to much distress in your hostage like minds.
You are all hostages!
Be free!
and bye bye!
But, either way, a moron is a moron is a moron and if you voted for Bush, that's what you are IMAO, no matter if you're misguided or not.
BlakNo1
BlakNo1 ~
Although it doesn't make for pleasant discussion, your statement echoes my sentiments.
How anyone who follows the news could vote for Bush after four miserable years ~ it boggles the mind.
But, either way, a moron is a moron is a moron and if you voted for Bush, that's what you are IMAO, no matter if you're misguided or not.
BlakNo1
BlakNo1 ~
Although it doesn't make for pleasant discussion, your statement echoes my sentiments.
How anyone who follows the news could vote for Bush after four miserable years ~ it boggles the mind.
Or have you not enough faith, enough courage, enough balls, to answer me.
Why should I, when your mind is made up? A closed mind is a pointless thing to have a discussion with.
And besides, you prefer to cut and run:
I won't bother you anymore today though. My dissent, while considered the lifblood of democracy by thoise with a working nougat, causes to much distress in your hostage like minds.
I would mention removing the log from your own eye first, but you'd probably consider that "religious," too (when it is just as clearly a function of human psychology, as you so aptly display in this sentence).
and bye bye!
As you said.....
Or have you not enough faith, enough courage, enough balls, to answer me.
Why should I, when your mind is made up? A closed mind is a pointless thing to have a discussion with.
And besides, you prefer to cut and run:
I won't bother you anymore today though. My dissent, while considered the lifblood of democracy by thoise with a working nougat, causes to much distress in your hostage like minds.
I would mention removing the log from your own eye first, but you'd probably consider that "religious," too (when it is just as clearly a function of human psychology, as you so aptly display in this sentence).
and bye bye!
As you said.....
rette - Well, my optimism extends only so far as people are concerned, not Diebold or other e voting methods.
Our election process absolutely has to be cleaned up or we can forget democracy altogether. I completely agree with that.
Red State / Blue State? Or
"The Urban Archipelago"
http://tinyurl.com/55hay
Long but worth the read.
rette - Well, my optimism extends only so far as people are concerned, not Diebold or other e voting methods.
Our election process absolutely has to be cleaned up or we can forget democracy altogether. I completely agree with that.
Red State / Blue State? Or
"The Urban Archipelago"
http://tinyurl.com/55hay
Long but worth the read.
You know what? I'm really sick and tired of being sick and tired of the kernal that our only hope is that repukes do themselves in. That's really piss-poor. They are taking us down a wrong ass-backwards. They've already ruined us all to the world. Now they will bring about the destruction of this country, no arguments. Get while the getting's good, folks. I plan to.
You know what? I'm really sick and tired of being sick and tired of the kernal that our only hope is that repukes do themselves in. That's really piss-poor. They are taking us down a wrong ass-backwards. They've already ruined us all to the world. Now they will bring about the destruction of this country, no arguments. Get while the getting's good, folks. I plan to.
Did someone mention sex? Isn't that usually what causes the trolls to scurry away, the awful idea that a discussion of *S*E*X* might occur?
Must have done.
As for being cross about 'red states', I'm afraid that there's a bit of confusion here between a disagreement about politics and about hurt feelings. Hurt feelings, which is what seem to underlie entirely too much of what is being touted as morals (for of course morals are not quantifiable by and large, but are always expressions of feelings) are inadequate grounds for political, social or economic functions. Hurt feelings aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell. But hurt feelings are something that can be talked about endlessly, for they are endlessly interpretable.
Lot of hurt feelings around these days. Not very useful as anything except a shield and a cover for far less charming activities.
Did someone mention sex? Isn't that usually what causes the trolls to scurry away, the awful idea that a discussion of *S*E*X* might occur?
Must have done.
As for being cross about 'red states', I'm afraid that there's a bit of confusion here between a disagreement about politics and about hurt feelings. Hurt feelings, which is what seem to underlie entirely too much of what is being touted as morals (for of course morals are not quantifiable by and large, but are always expressions of feelings) are inadequate grounds for political, social or economic functions. Hurt feelings aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell. But hurt feelings are something that can be talked about endlessly, for they are endlessly interpretable.
Lot of hurt feelings around these days. Not very useful as anything except a shield and a cover for far less charming activities.
We are moving inexorably and irreversibly toward a one-party Nation: God's Own Party.
As social conditions deteriorate (does ANYONE doubt it, while war proliferates, the economy tanks, the dollar declines), more and more foolks will turn to "God" for whatever it is foolks turn to "God" for.
I know it's hard to face it, but it is true: The Grand American Experiment with democracy, tolerance, and liberty is over.
Now what are we going to do about it?
We are moving inexorably and irreversibly toward a one-party Nation: God's Own Party.
As social conditions deteriorate (does ANYONE doubt it, while war proliferates, the economy tanks, the dollar declines), more and more foolks will turn to "God" for whatever it is foolks turn to "God" for.
I know it's hard to face it, but it is true: The Grand American Experiment with democracy, tolerance, and liberty is over.
Now what are we going to do about it?
Now the Chimp owes the fundies big time.
He must carry their buckets of slime.
We must be humble sheep.
We must pray before sleep,
And look at fucking as sinful crime.
Now the Chimp owes the fundies big time.
He must carry their buckets of slime.
We must be humble sheep.
We must pray before sleep,
And look at fucking as sinful crime.
shorter da trufe is rob: how come no one cares he will burn in hell
shorter da trufe is rob: how come no one cares he will burn in hell
GWPDA - This is about way more than "hurt feelings," love. This is about what is true and what isn't.
I haven't liked the constant slamming of "red states." But the main reason I've given all along is because I don't believe in this "Great Divide" idea that is principally a Rovian construct that has taken off with the media, which is not our friend.
GWPDA - This is about way more than "hurt feelings," love. This is about what is true and what isn't.
I haven't liked the constant slamming of "red states." But the main reason I've given all along is because I don't believe in this "Great Divide" idea that is principally a Rovian construct that has taken off with the media, which is not our friend.
last tidbit-
somebody might want to mention that in the 1996 poll, 69% of the moral tally voted for Dole, while only 15% voted for Bubba.
The moral value issue being 460% more important to Republicans?
Does that make Democrats immoral?
No, but it keeps them out of RMJ's heaven!
last tidbit-
somebody might want to mention that in the 1996 poll, 69% of the moral tally voted for Dole, while only 15% voted for Bubba.
The moral value issue being 460% more important to Republicans?
Does that make Democrats immoral?
No, but it keeps them out of RMJ's heaven!
Now what are we going to do about it?
We are going to silently accept it.
Now what are we going to do about it?
We are going to silently accept it.
No, but it keeps them out of RMJ's heaven!
Wow. Now I'm in charge of heaven. I own it. And I can keep Democrats out.
Such power. It goes right to my head.....
(and I thought you were leaving. Obviously not a person of your word....)
No, but it keeps them out of RMJ's heaven!
Wow. Now I'm in charge of heaven. I own it. And I can keep Democrats out.
Such power. It goes right to my head.....
(and I thought you were leaving. Obviously not a person of your word....)
Mr. Cool Guy - you can accept it quietly if you like. I have no intention of doing that.
I intend to be a noisy and as liberal as I can be. It's what I've been doing for the last two years and I intend to get better at it.
Mr. Cool Guy - you can accept it quietly if you like. I have no intention of doing that.
I intend to be a noisy and as liberal as I can be. It's what I've been doing for the last two years and I intend to get better at it.
CHRIST. Will somebody please think of the children? THE CHILDREN?
CHRIST. Will somebody please think of the children? THE CHILDREN?
Theocracy as a meme:
GOP: "God's Own Party"
DEM: "Devil's Evil Minions"
wanna bet?
Theocracy as a meme:
GOP: "God's Own Party"
DEM: "Devil's Evil Minions"
wanna bet?
Can't see why so many of us on the leftish end of the spectrum are so hostile to the "moral values" explanation of Bush's "win".
Whether or not it's true, it would actually be, for me, the most comforting explanation, in a weird way. Given that "moral values" is a code word for gay and abortion rights, the fact that Bush won because of gays and abortion, while sad in what it says about our country, at least would mean that there wasn't anything we could have done differently to win the election.
Of course, that doesn't mean the "moral values" explanation is the right one; but I just don't get why it seems to bother some Democrats so much.
Can't see why so many of us on the leftish end of the spectrum are so hostile to the "moral values" explanation of Bush's "win".
Whether or not it's true, it would actually be, for me, the most comforting explanation, in a weird way. Given that "moral values" is a code word for gay and abortion rights, the fact that Bush won because of gays and abortion, while sad in what it says about our country, at least would mean that there wasn't anything we could have done differently to win the election.
Of course, that doesn't mean the "moral values" explanation is the right one; but I just don't get why it seems to bother some Democrats so much.
Wow. Now I'm in charge of heaven. I own it.
Just think of all the people, not just Democrats, you can keep out.
Jerry Falwell springs to mind...
Wow. Now I'm in charge of heaven. I own it.
Just think of all the people, not just Democrats, you can keep out.
Jerry Falwell springs to mind...
Mr. Cool Guy - you can accept it quietly if you like. I have no intention of doing that.
I meant that as more of a prediction about what most people will actually do.
Sad but true, I fear.
Mr. Cool Guy - you can accept it quietly if you like. I have no intention of doing that.
I meant that as more of a prediction about what most people will actually do.
Sad but true, I fear.
And speaking or "moral issue" Billy James Hargis is dead
I trust some of you may remember the Christian anti-communist crusader, brought low by Dat Ol' Debble Sex.
There was this real nice couple attending Bily James' "College" who were planning to marry and sought his aide as -- being the pure Christian innocents they were -- they knew nothing about sex.
So Billy James explained it all -- by taking them both to bed with him!
And speaking or "moral issue" Billy James Hargis is dead
I trust some of you may remember the Christian anti-communist crusader, brought low by Dat Ol' Debble Sex.
There was this real nice couple attending Bily James' "College" who were planning to marry and sought his aide as -- being the pure Christian innocents they were -- they knew nothing about sex.
So Billy James explained it all -- by taking them both to bed with him!
RMJ,
please, please, please, I promise I'll go away. Just be honest with me.
Tell me your truth! Do you not have any conviction? Which of the many on high is your God?
Is it Yahweh? Allah? Just give me a hint and I'll go back to my own little hell.
"shorter da trufe is rob: how come no one cares he will burn in hell"
Uh, don't you all have sympathy for me ? Heaven is earth palerino, and so is hell!
I spend all day there. In reality.
Puny and insignificant, rare and precious, that's me. Just like you!
RMJ,
please, please, please, I promise I'll go away. Just be honest with me.
Tell me your truth! Do you not have any conviction? Which of the many on high is your God?
Is it Yahweh? Allah? Just give me a hint and I'll go back to my own little hell.
"shorter da trufe is rob: how come no one cares he will burn in hell"
Uh, don't you all have sympathy for me ? Heaven is earth palerino, and so is hell!
I spend all day there. In reality.
Puny and insignificant, rare and precious, that's me. Just like you!
Just think of all the people, not just Democrats, you can keep out.
Jerry Falwell springs to mind...
If there is an afterlife, and I meet Falwell there, it can only mean one of us is in the wrong place.
That, or I got what I deserved.
Just think of all the people, not just Democrats, you can keep out.
Jerry Falwell springs to mind...
If there is an afterlife, and I meet Falwell there, it can only mean one of us is in the wrong place.
That, or I got what I deserved.
It seems that even the Freepers are tuning in to Falwell's hypocrisy and power hunger. (with the exception of the ones who spell like rob)
I say let the media shine a light on him and allow Americans see more of him.
from the Freeper thread on the Sunday talking-head shows:
To: secret garden
McCain had starring roles in last week's episode(s)...think he gets a week off in between?? 
Jerry Falwell? GAG...he doesn't do the Republican Party any good.
26 posted on 11/28/2004 6:04:56 AM PST by SE Mom (God Bless our troops.)
To: SE Mom
Gerry Fallwell is invited on to represent Republicans exactly because he doesn't represent Republicans. This passes for subtlety in the bias of the left wing media-it's about as subtle as a sledge hammer!
43 posted on 11/28/2004 6:38:02 AM PST by ananda
To: SE Mom
Jerry Falwell? GAG...he doesn't do the Republican Party any good.
Reverand Falwell helped build the moderan day Conservative movement. Dont believe the Mainstream Press lies about him. Reverand Falwell took a stand against the Radical Left when no one else would. Constantly he has rallied Christian voters behind Bush, and helped get him re-elected.
And what have you done to re-elect Bush?
107 posted on 11/28/2004 2:26:40 PM PST by M 91 u2 K
Also Tena,
Do you have a link for the Dallas 1% Bush mandate?
It seems that even the Freepers are tuning in to Falwell's hypocrisy and power hunger. (with the exception of the ones who spell like rob)
I say let the media shine a light on him and allow Americans see more of him.
from the Freeper thread on the Sunday talking-head shows:
To: secret garden
McCain had starring roles in last week's episode(s)...think he gets a week off in between??
Jerry Falwell? GAG...he doesn't do the Republican Party any good.
26 posted on 11/28/2004 6:04:56 AM PST by SE Mom (God Bless our troops.)
To: SE Mom
Gerry Fallwell is invited on to represent Republicans exactly because he doesn't represent Republicans. This passes for subtlety in the bias of the left wing media-it's about as subtle as a sledge hammer!
43 posted on 11/28/2004 6:38:02 AM PST by ananda
To: SE Mom
Jerry Falwell? GAG...he doesn't do the Republican Party any good.
Reverand Falwell helped build the moderan day Conservative movement. Dont believe the Mainstream Press lies about him. Reverand Falwell took a stand against the Radical Left when no one else would. Constantly he has rallied Christian voters behind Bush, and helped get him re-elected.
And what have you done to re-elect Bush?
107 posted on 11/28/2004 2:26:40 PM PST by M 91 u2 K
Also Tena,
Do you have a link for the Dallas 1% Bush mandate?
David E - I keep thinking about that couple who are involved in orgies who are Repug ops. There don't seem to be many on the right who do more than talk the talk.
And the more talking they do, the more suspicious I get about what they are really up to. And nine times out of ten, they are up to things that they are howling about others getting up to.
David E - I keep thinking about that couple who are involved in orgies who are Repug ops. There don't seem to be many on the right who do more than talk the talk.
And the more talking they do, the more suspicious I get about what they are really up to. And nine times out of ten, they are up to things that they are howling about others getting up to.
bin Laden is attacking us because he himself says we are immoral.
The fact that Bush pretends to the morality cloak and the top target of bin Laden is...Bush's enemies....I see a pattern here, no?
bin Laden is attacking us because he himself says we are immoral.
The fact that Bush pretends to the morality cloak and the top target of bin Laden is...Bush's enemies....I see a pattern here, no?
"not a person of your word" RMJ
the high and mighty priests are judging again!
oh, but you are a person of "the" word.
your a terrorist to me pal. no more.
Jesus Christ gave you a command: "love one another."
now get back to it, and leave the sheeple alone.
"not a person of your word" RMJ
the high and mighty priests are judging again!
oh, but you are a person of "the" word.
your a terrorist to me pal. no more.
Jesus Christ gave you a command: "love one another."
now get back to it, and leave the sheeple alone.
"He who cloaks himself in morality is merely hiding his immorality"
Guess who said that?
"He who cloaks himself in morality is merely hiding his immorality"
Guess who said that?
now get back to it, and leave the sheeple alone.
well, at least he's an equal opportunity condescender....
now get back to it, and leave the sheeple alone.
well, at least he's an equal opportunity condescender....
Do you have a link for the Dallas 1% Bush mandate?
Ask and you shall receive. If you want Houston, change county to Harris. Not sure of counties for San Antonio or Austin.
Do you have a link for the Dallas 1% Bush mandate?
Ask and you shall receive. If you want Houston, change county to Harris. Not sure of counties for San Antonio or Austin.
Nota - That's what the election authority in Dallas County told us when I went to a wrap up meeting for ElectionProtection '04. Bruce Sherbert, who is in charge of all elections in Dallas County was invited and was asked. He told us that, and it was repeated by the local state party wonk, who was there. Sherbert also told us that early voting was being investigated. It was all done on touch screens and serious questions were raised.
The Washington Post had a piece on the election in Texas the week after the election, and it had the numbers, too. I don't have that link, sorry.
Nota - That's what the election authority in Dallas County told us when I went to a wrap up meeting for ElectionProtection '04. Bruce Sherbert, who is in charge of all elections in Dallas County was invited and was asked. He told us that, and it was repeated by the local state party wonk, who was there. Sherbert also told us that early voting was being investigated. It was all done on touch screens and serious questions were raised.
The Washington Post had a piece on the election in Texas the week after the election, and it had the numbers, too. I don't have that link, sorry.
about Unitarian Universalists--they have an ability to laugh at themselves.
They actually tell UU jokes.
Here's one.
Lady walks into a fabric shop and asks for ten yards of material.
Shopkeeper says, "You got it. So, whatcha making with that?"
Lady says, "A nightgown."
Shopkeeper: "How many?"
Lady, holding up her index finger: "You heard right. One. Uno. Eins."
Shopkeeper, boggled by this, says, "Ten yards of material for a single nightgown? Not that it's any of my business, but 'sup with that?"
Lady answers, with a faint sadness in her voice, "Well, you see, my husband is a Unitarian Universalist. And he would rather seek than find."
I didn't say they were funny jokes.
about Unitarian Universalists--they have an ability to laugh at themselves.
They actually tell UU jokes.
Here's one.
Lady walks into a fabric shop and asks for ten yards of material.
Shopkeeper says, "You got it. So, whatcha making with that?"
Lady says, "A nightgown."
Shopkeeper: "How many?"
Lady, holding up her index finger: "You heard right. One. Uno. Eins."
Shopkeeper, boggled by this, says, "Ten yards of material for a single nightgown? Not that it's any of my business, but 'sup with that?"
Lady answers, with a faint sadness in her voice, "Well, you see, my husband is a Unitarian Universalist. And he would rather seek than find."
I didn't say they were funny jokes.
chris/tx - thank you.
chris/tx - thank you.
In his latest book, Mark Crispin Miller writes, "How could we, as a nation, have so thoroughly devolved, going from George Washington to George Bush?
For the framers, many factors were crucial to the maintenance of American democracy: freedom of expression, habeas corpus, separation of powers, the disentanglement of church and state-and civic virtue,
which impels the people to defend democracy against whatever enemy would threaten it.
As we have seen, our basic rights are now at risk.
Their fate and ours, depends on an immediate revival of the only institution left among us to enable the survival of our system: the U.S.press."
Well I think we all know that means we are seriously screwed, unless Babs, Steve, Tom, etal open up their wallets and construct a mighty wurlitzer we can call our own.
The rest of us could contribute whatever we can responsibly afford-ten dollars here and ten dollars there-as we did to the Kerry campaign.
In other words, boys and girls, let's put on a show!!
In his latest book, Mark Crispin Miller writes, "How could we, as a nation, have so thoroughly devolved, going from George Washington to George Bush?
For the framers, many factors were crucial to the maintenance of American democracy: freedom of expression, habeas corpus, separation of powers, the disentanglement of church and state-and civic virtue,
which impels the people to defend democracy against whatever enemy would threaten it.
As we have seen, our basic rights are now at risk.
Their fate and ours, depends on an immediate revival of the only institution left among us to enable the survival of our system: the U.S.press."
Well I think we all know that means we are seriously screwed, unless Babs, Steve, Tom, etal open up their wallets and construct a mighty wurlitzer we can call our own.
The rest of us could contribute whatever we can responsibly afford-ten dollars here and ten dollars there-as we did to the Kerry campaign.
In other words, boys and girls, let's put on a show!!
If you want Houston, change county to Harris. Not sure of counties for San Antonio or Austin./I>
Bexar and Travis, respectively.
If you want Houston, change county to Harris. Not sure of counties for San Antonio or Austin./I>
Bexar and Travis, respectively.
Robert M. Jeffers,
He's an idiot who's been trolling around here for a week or so under various names. No one here associates you with the Radical Clerics or could ever doubt your sincerity. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
Robert M. Jeffers,
He's an idiot who's been trolling around here for a week or so under various names. No one here associates you with the Radical Clerics or could ever doubt your sincerity. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
Again, in the interest of mental health, I highly recommend that everyone ignore "da trufe is rob." You will not get a coherent argument out of it.
Again, in the interest of mental health, I highly recommend that everyone ignore "da trufe is rob." You will not get a coherent argument out of it.
He's an idiot who's been trolling around here for a week or so under various names. No one here associates you with the Radical Clerics or could ever doubt your sincerity. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
Thanks, Hecate. I know better than to feed 'em, but then I find myself doing it and dragging down the discourse for the whole community.
Gotta go anyway, to teach a class, but I'll ignore him from now on. (Hopefully).
He's an idiot who's been trolling around here for a week or so under various names. No one here associates you with the Radical Clerics or could ever doubt your sincerity. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
Thanks, Hecate. I know better than to feed 'em, but then I find myself doing it and dragging down the discourse for the whole community.
Gotta go anyway, to teach a class, but I'll ignore him from now on. (Hopefully).
RMJ,
you show extraordinary cowardice here, falling back on offensice rhetoric to avoid my very simple question.
Try, try, type it out. Put your faith down. Who is your God? I want to know your judgment metrics.
Enough parsing my comments likea straw man. Answer the friggin question.
Who is you god?
RMJ,
you show extraordinary cowardice here, falling back on offensice rhetoric to avoid my very simple question.
Try, try, type it out. Put your faith down. Who is your God? I want to know your judgment metrics.
Enough parsing my comments likea straw man. Answer the friggin question.
Who is you god?
Don't know if this makes a difference or not, but after reading this article this a.m. I went to the one million moms website and used their e-mail links to write to denounce their coercive campaigns and let their targets know while they may be loud, they don't represent all moms. I think a few "attaboy's" might stiffen the spine of these advertisers and networks. Anyhow, the million moms website said to tell at least one other person about their loony website. So this is a start.
Don't know if this makes a difference or not, but after reading this article this a.m. I went to the one million moms website and used their e-mail links to write to denounce their coercive campaigns and let their targets know while they may be loud, they don't represent all moms. I think a few "attaboy's" might stiffen the spine of these advertisers and networks. Anyhow, the million moms website said to tell at least one other person about their loony website. So this is a start.
Tena - Your welcome. I found the link yesterday when someone was calling Houston a bunch of Bush backers. Houston voted 45% for Kerry, and this with Poppy having a presence here for over forty years.
Tena - Your welcome. I found the link yesterday when someone was calling Houston a bunch of Bush backers. Houston voted 45% for Kerry, and this with Poppy having a presence here for over forty years.
That, or I got what I deserved.
Robert M. Jeffers
Nah, not you, but your Christianity has been placed directly in the pathway of a human rights movement. Those like me aren't attacing you personally because we don't dislike you but we're left with no other choice than to attack your belief system which should have long ago reconciled with us but hasn't and we're trapped in this eventual conclusion and we will win even if it take the ashes of 6 million gays like me, sadly.
That, or I got what I deserved.
Robert M. Jeffers
Nah, not you, but your Christianity has been placed directly in the pathway of a human rights movement. Those like me aren't attacing you personally because we don't dislike you but we're left with no other choice than to attack your belief system which should have long ago reconciled with us but hasn't and we're trapped in this eventual conclusion and we will win even if it take the ashes of 6 million gays like me, sadly.
Is El Paso in El Paso County? I can't recall, but someone here said that El Paso went totally Democratic in the election.
Is El Paso in El Paso County? I can't recall, but someone here said that El Paso went totally Democratic in the election.
There goes the witch, calling people names again. Nice! What various names do I spew the truth with dear Hecate?
Da trufe is beauty, beauty is da trufe.
Stop wasting your intellect.
I love that you'v got a priest on board now though. Should bolster your "morality"
"religion is the opiate of the masses."
smoke it up!
There goes the witch, calling people names again. Nice! What various names do I spew the truth with dear Hecate?
Da trufe is beauty, beauty is da trufe.
Stop wasting your intellect.
I love that you'v got a priest on board now though. Should bolster your "morality"
"religion is the opiate of the masses."
smoke it up!
1 Canadian Dollar = 0.85 United States Dollar
1 Canadian Dollar = 0.85 United States Dollar
kmc - Wow. That's what we need - about 60 million of you.
chris/tx - Yep and I've been hooted at for suggesting that the numbers show that Texas is trending back to being a Democratic state. But the numbers are right. We were solidly Democratic for a long long time and we have turned the corner and are headed back in that direction.
Thank you, Gov. Goodhair, Tom Delay and George Bush for finally making it unbearable enough here that people have had it.
kmc - Wow. That's what we need - about 60 million of you.
chris/tx - Yep and I've been hooted at for suggesting that the numbers show that Texas is trending back to being a Democratic state. But the numbers are right. We were solidly Democratic for a long long time and we have turned the corner and are headed back in that direction.
Thank you, Gov. Goodhair, Tom Delay and George Bush for finally making it unbearable enough here that people have had it.
Just look at the record, Tena:
Rush Limbaugh is a drug addict.
William Bennett is a compulsive gambler.
"Dr." Laura is a nymphomaniac
And John Fund got his mistress' daughter pregnant -- and demanded that she get an abortion!
It has yet to be established whether or not he was the young woman's father.
Just look at the record, Tena:
Rush Limbaugh is a drug addict.
William Bennett is a compulsive gambler.
"Dr." Laura is a nymphomaniac
And John Fund got his mistress' daughter pregnant -- and demanded that she get an abortion!
It has yet to be established whether or not he was the young woman's father.
we will win even if it take the ashes of 6 million gays like me, sadly.
Can you say, drama queen?
we will win even if it take the ashes of 6 million gays like me, sadly.
Can you say, drama queen?
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock.
That was Jimmy Swaggert, not Racist Radical Cleric Jerry Falwell.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock.
That was Jimmy Swaggert, not Racist Radical Cleric Jerry Falwell.
Georgie Anne Geyer:
After Nuremberg, you recall we didn't hang the German "Soldaten," we hung the "Generalen." That was the right idea then, and it's the right idea now.
Read the whole piece...
Georgie Anne Geyer:
After Nuremberg, you recall we didn't hang the German "Soldaten," we hung the "Generalen." That was the right idea then, and it's the right idea now.
Read the whole piece...
Incog - The Buddha taught that one should not mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself. You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
Incog - The Buddha taught that one should not mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself. You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
I think you're remembering Jimmy Swaggart, not Falwell, after Jimmy was caught picking up a hooker on Airline Highway outside New Orleans.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
I think you're remembering Jimmy Swaggart, not Falwell, after Jimmy was caught picking up a hooker on Airline Highway outside New Orleans.
Sooner or later reality will catch up in the form of significant climate change impacts. In fact, what we and the rest of the world do to address this is probably the biggest ethical issue ever because of the consequences to the billions of us here now and those who will come after.
We've got about ten years to change the way the world consumes its energy resources. Even with major intervention right now, the fact is we are all facing down the barrel of Mother Nature's gun. The G-8 is on to this, and will be holding a climate conference early next year. They are moving forward without the US.
In the meanwhile, we can keep fiddling here in this country and on this site, wondering how to address the fundies on the issue of gay marriage or churchgoing, or we can partner with those who are rolling up their sleeves and getting at the task of probably human history's most momentous disaster roaring our collective way.
This is what the Democrats should be talking about. This is moral values writ large.
Sooner or later reality will catch up in the form of significant climate change impacts. In fact, what we and the rest of the world do to address this is probably the biggest ethical issue ever because of the consequences to the billions of us here now and those who will come after.
We've got about ten years to change the way the world consumes its energy resources. Even with major intervention right now, the fact is we are all facing down the barrel of Mother Nature's gun. The G-8 is on to this, and will be holding a climate conference early next year. They are moving forward without the US.
In the meanwhile, we can keep fiddling here in this country and on this site, wondering how to address the fundies on the issue of gay marriage or churchgoing, or we can partner with those who are rolling up their sleeves and getting at the task of probably human history's most momentous disaster roaring our collective way.
This is what the Democrats should be talking about. This is moral values writ large.
You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
Incog kinda has a habit of doing that.
Misplaced anger, I think.
You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
Incog kinda has a habit of doing that.
Misplaced anger, I think.
have you all seen Michael Kinsley on this:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opin...omment-
opinions
"Why does an ideological position become sacrosanct just because it gets labeled as a "value"? There are serious arguments and sincere passions on both sides of the gay marriage debate. For some reason, the views of those who feel that marriage requires a man and a woman are considered to be a "value," while the views of those who believe that gay relationships deserve the same legal standing as straight ones barely qualifies as an opinion."
have you all seen Michael Kinsley on this:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opin...omment-
opinions
"Why does an ideological position become sacrosanct just because it gets labeled as a "value"? There are serious arguments and sincere passions on both sides of the gay marriage debate. For some reason, the views of those who feel that marriage requires a man and a woman are considered to be a "value," while the views of those who believe that gay relationships deserve the same legal standing as straight ones barely qualifies as an opinion."
Is El Paso in El Paso County?
Yep (just looked it up in my handy "The roads of Texas" atlas).
El Paso voted same as Austin, 56% for Kerry. San Antonio voted same as Houston, 55% for Bush.
Is El Paso in El Paso County?
Yep (just looked it up in my handy "The roads of Texas" atlas).
El Paso voted same as Austin, 56% for Kerry. San Antonio voted same as Houston, 55% for Bush.
You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
When will they stop practicing and go for the real thing, though?
You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
When will they stop practicing and go for the real thing, though?
"Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006."
Hecate
Not unless we have some form of accountability in the voting process.
Let's face it, they control the machines, if we can't get control of the process, the rethugs will just consolidate their power in 2006.
Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform.
"Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006."
Hecate
Not unless we have some form of accountability in the voting process.
Let's face it, they control the machines, if we can't get control of the process, the rethugs will just consolidate their power in 2006.
Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform.
David E - You know, it never fails, really. It is so entirely predictable. People like Falwell and Swaggert are really just televangelists on a large scale and they are invariably the biggest hypocrites in the world. It would almost be funny, if they hadn't gotten such a big pulpit to preach at us from. The damned media is to blame for that. And George Bush, for pretending to take them seriously in order to get them to vote for him.
David E - You know, it never fails, really. It is so entirely predictable. People like Falwell and Swaggert are really just televangelists on a large scale and they are invariably the biggest hypocrites in the world. It would almost be funny, if they hadn't gotten such a big pulpit to preach at us from. The damned media is to blame for that. And George Bush, for pretending to take them seriously in order to get them to vote for him.
I'll say it again: Hatred and bigotry are NOT moral values.
Out of respect for Tena, I won't mention the moron thing, though...
I'll say it again: Hatred and bigotry are NOT moral values.
Out of respect for Tena, I won't mention the moron thing, though...
Thanks chris/tx and Tena,
It seems clear that the main divide is between the urban and rural voters. Those who see what government can do for them and those who live outside.
I missed a lot of info on the election. I was in China, with limited internet access. The worst thing was that all blogspot sites were blocked. Only got some CNNi and an English language China channel. Horrible to be away and only with people who wanted explanations for the unexplainable.
Thanks chris/tx and Tena,
It seems clear that the main divide is between the urban and rural voters. Those who see what government can do for them and those who live outside.
I missed a lot of info on the election. I was in China, with limited internet access. The worst thing was that all blogspot sites were blocked. Only got some CNNi and an English language China channel. Horrible to be away and only with people who wanted explanations for the unexplainable.
chris/tx - Thank you, you are a clearinghouse of info this morning. I really appreciate it.
chris/tx - Thank you, you are a clearinghouse of info this morning. I really appreciate it.
Ignore da trufe?
Bobby, bobby, bobby.
You've been doing that for too long!
stuck in a fantasy that has instituted violence and intolerance.
and now your going to teach a class.
those poor suckers. show them thy judgemental way.
Ignore da trufe?
Bobby, bobby, bobby.
You've been doing that for too long!
stuck in a fantasy that has instituted violence and intolerance.
and now your going to teach a class.
those poor suckers. show them thy judgemental way.
Sooner or later reality will catch up in the form of significant climate change impacts. In fact, what we and the rest of the world do to address this is probably the biggest ethical issue ever because of the consequences to the billions of us here now and those who will come after.
haven't you heard? Climate change is good! More fish for the people!
The International Policy Network will publish its long-awaited study, claiming that the science warning of an environmental disaster caused by climate change is 'fatally flawed'. It will state that previous predictions of changes in sea level of a metre over the next 100 years were overestimates.
Instead, the report will say that sea level rises will reach a maximum of just 20cms during the next century, adding that global warming could, in fact, benefit mankind by increasing fish stocks.
(PS This study was partially funded by Exxon.)
Sooner or later reality will catch up in the form of significant climate change impacts. In fact, what we and the rest of the world do to address this is probably the biggest ethical issue ever because of the consequences to the billions of us here now and those who will come after.
haven't you heard? Climate change is good! More fish for the people!
The International Policy Network will publish its long-awaited study, claiming that the science warning of an environmental disaster caused by climate change is 'fatally flawed'. It will state that previous predictions of changes in sea level of a metre over the next 100 years were overestimates.
Instead, the report will say that sea level rises will reach a maximum of just 20cms during the next century, adding that global warming could, in fact, benefit mankind by increasing fish stocks.
(PS This study was partially funded by Exxon.)
dave - I really do love you, you know.
dave - I really do love you, you know.
From that Rich thing, I esp. liked this outraged comment from Big Pharm: "...I mean, there are some guys with their kids that sit down to watch 'Monday Night Football."
I didn't know they let kids into bars!
From that Rich thing, I esp. liked this outraged comment from Big Pharm: "...I mean, there are some guys with their kids that sit down to watch 'Monday Night Football."
I didn't know they let kids into bars!
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop. What's new about Desperate Housewives? (although, it would be interesting to see where D.H. loses points after the MNF bit where white babe throws herself at black stud.)
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop. What's new about Desperate Housewives? (although, it would be interesting to see where D.H. loses points after the MNF bit where white babe throws herself at black stud.)
"When will they stop practicing and go for the real thing, though?"
When they finally get it right, which I estimate will be somewhere around 500 years from now.
"When will they stop practicing and go for the real thing, though?"
When they finally get it right, which I estimate will be somewhere around 500 years from now.
...I really do love you, you know.
*blush!*
...I really do love you, you know.
*blush!*
- some critics criticized its graphic violence, while others branded it anti-Semitic.
watertiger
Seen it, it's disgustingly pornographic and obviously anti-Semitic. It's also a prime example of misogyny. Mel has really got a problem with women, hasn't he.
Christianity not just one thing. It is a word that is used to mean everything from the most liberal, if not radical Christian Quakers, UUs, etc. to the openly Nazi identity cults. To pretend that the first are in some real way related to the latter is not only entirely unjust but it is worse than useless. Liberals should cultivate the friends we have in the Christian churches.
A good example of why this is true is in the breaching of the Black-Jewish alliance for progress on civil rights. It was never as deep a breach as the establishment press hoped but to the extent that the two communities were fighting with each oter it didn't improve things. This was particularly bad since it came exactly the same time as what progress that had been made was under attack.
Gay people are not numerous enough, rich enough or united enough to make progress without Christians and other groups. To let the fascists seperate us from our friends and natural allies is to do their work for them.
- some critics criticized its graphic violence, while others branded it anti-Semitic.
watertiger
Seen it, it's disgustingly pornographic and obviously anti-Semitic. It's also a prime example of misogyny. Mel has really got a problem with women, hasn't he.
Christianity not just one thing. It is a word that is used to mean everything from the most liberal, if not radical Christian Quakers, UUs, etc. to the openly Nazi identity cults. To pretend that the first are in some real way related to the latter is not only entirely unjust but it is worse than useless. Liberals should cultivate the friends we have in the Christian churches.
A good example of why this is true is in the breaching of the Black-Jewish alliance for progress on civil rights. It was never as deep a breach as the establishment press hoped but to the extent that the two communities were fighting with each oter it didn't improve things. This was particularly bad since it came exactly the same time as what progress that had been made was under attack.
Gay people are not numerous enough, rich enough or united enough to make progress without Christians and other groups. To let the fascists seperate us from our friends and natural allies is to do their work for them.
krsaz - "Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform."
God, you are so right. If that isn't at the top of our list, it better get put there right now.
The single biggest problem we face is not the media or other Americans - it is this criminal conspiracy of a Repug party that is stealing elections one after another.
I want trials. I want scandal. I want it all out in the open, I don't care who is guilty - whether Dems or Repugs or 3d parties. Every bit of it needs to be aired, discussed and acted on.
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
krsaz - "Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform."
God, you are so right. If that isn't at the top of our list, it better get put there right now.
The single biggest problem we face is not the media or other Americans - it is this criminal conspiracy of a Repug party that is stealing elections one after another.
I want trials. I want scandal. I want it all out in the open, I don't care who is guilty - whether Dems or Repugs or 3d parties. Every bit of it needs to be aired, discussed and acted on.
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop.
Fuck that. Watch the soaps. Wanna expose the brownshirt crowd for the crass hypocrites they are? Start bitching about "All My Children."
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop.
Fuck that. Watch the soaps. Wanna expose the brownshirt crowd for the crass hypocrites they are? Start bitching about "All My Children."
Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform.
krsaz | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 11:17 am
No one posting here will live long enough to ever get election reform; cuz the current system works so well.
NO significant group of incumbents in EITHER party will achieve or even push hard for changes to the system which got them elected...That's why BOTH 'parties' used to oppose expanding the franchise (which is no longer relevant, btw)...
Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform.
krsaz | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 11:17 am
No one posting here will live long enough to ever get election reform; cuz the current system works so well.
NO significant group of incumbents in EITHER party will achieve or even push hard for changes to the system which got them elected...That's why BOTH 'parties' used to oppose expanding the franchise (which is no longer relevant, btw)...
If all Democrats could do this, the talk in the nation will turn to the real matters at hand.
Elaine Supkis
You have to appreciate the difference between "all the talk in the nation" and "the chatter in the media". I gotta tell ya, there is plenty of talk in the country right now... plenty. I can't talk to anyone, even the formerly non-political, without some manifestation of, "Wow, deeply shitty times we're living in, hey? And that election... it was SO stolen!"
It just doesn't matter, because in the nation's mainstream media voice, there are Official Topics, vs. stuff which either does not exist at all(Officially), or which, at best, is good for a kicker about them tinfoil hat types. And that's, as Uncle Walter once advised us, the way it is.
After having been a student of the media virtually my whole life, it only really came home to me how the entire operation worked, somewhere around 1989-1990. The television stations in Houston, Texas were just getting around to that sensationalist approach we're now used to, where things that have nothing to do with real day-to-day life are made to seem like an imminent crisis, for which only they have the solution to save your family (Oh my God! I'm gonna get hit any minute by a fatal case of mad cow disease. Crisis!)
At the time, we had not yet gotten used to being bombarded daily by all this scary nonsense, so with the help of Channels 2, 11 and 13, you found yourself panicking at the first sign of a hurricane somewhere out in the Gulf; buying-out the hardware stores and taping the windows... nobody in town could talk about anything else, because the DIALOGUE was being conducted on TV. And that included the trajectory of said hurricane and the likelihood of its actually coming close, let alone destroying a major American city. Which we all KNEW was imminent!!
Eventually, the red light here went off for me. For at least a year, TV news had been filled with one story, after another, after another, after another... about CRIME. To watch the tube, honestly, you would have thought that you simply could not leave the house without crazed gangs of roving black youths attacking and killing you.
And then came the marischino cherry: the continuing story of the "kick-in burglars". These bold thugs would supposedly come right to your door, right there in the suburban peripheries of the city, and show no concern whatsoever to the fact that you were locked to the hilt... they simply kicked your fucking door down! Every newscast!
I never thought, at the time, to research any crime statistics to see if violent street crime had actually increased (no internet and the paper just echoed the TV). But this was the DIALOGUE. Young black thugs... EVERYWHERE! Coming from behind the trees! Dropping out of the skies! Oh my God, we're all gonna die!
What was the upshot of this? Over the span of a year, the popular Democratic woman mayor of the city dropped like a rock in the polls. A
If all Democrats could do this, the talk in the nation will turn to the real matters at hand.
Elaine Supkis
You have to appreciate the difference between "all the talk in the nation" and "the chatter in the media". I gotta tell ya, there is plenty of talk in the country right now... plenty. I can't talk to anyone, even the formerly non-political, without some manifestation of, "Wow, deeply shitty times we're living in, hey? And that election... it was SO stolen!"
It just doesn't matter, because in the nation's mainstream media voice, there are Official Topics, vs. stuff which either does not exist at all(Officially), or which, at best, is good for a kicker about them tinfoil hat types. And that's, as Uncle Walter once advised us, the way it is.
After having been a student of the media virtually my whole life, it only really came home to me how the entire operation worked, somewhere around 1989-1990. The television stations in Houston, Texas were just getting around to that sensationalist approach we're now used to, where things that have nothing to do with real day-to-day life are made to seem like an imminent crisis, for which only they have the solution to save your family (Oh my God! I'm gonna get hit any minute by a fatal case of mad cow disease. Crisis!)
At the time, we had not yet gotten used to being bombarded daily by all this scary nonsense, so with the help of Channels 2, 11 and 13, you found yourself panicking at the first sign of a hurricane somewhere out in the Gulf; buying-out the hardware stores and taping the windows... nobody in town could talk about anything else, because the DIALOGUE was being conducted on TV. And that included the trajectory of said hurricane and the likelihood of its actually coming close, let alone destroying a major American city. Which we all KNEW was imminent!!
Eventually, the red light here went off for me. For at least a year, TV news had been filled with one story, after another, after another, after another... about CRIME. To watch the tube, honestly, you would have thought that you simply could not leave the house without crazed gangs of roving black youths attacking and killing you.
And then came the marischino cherry: the continuing story of the "kick-in burglars". These bold thugs would supposedly come right to your door, right there in the suburban peripheries of the city, and show no concern whatsoever to the fact that you were locked to the hilt... they simply kicked your fucking door down! Every newscast!
I never thought, at the time, to research any crime statistics to see if violent street crime had actually increased (no internet and the paper just echoed the TV). But this was the DIALOGUE. Young black thugs... EVERYWHERE! Coming from behind the trees! Dropping out of the skies! Oh my God, we're all gonna die!
What was the upshot of this? Over the span of a year, the popular Democratic woman mayor of the city dropped like a rock in the polls. A
RMJ could attack me, but he could not reveal his God. Typical.
Priests prefer to deal with weak minds, and little boys, who don't question their insane ways.
It's sad to see a brain of his size so rotten with the prejudice of religion.
But, that's what makes this nice little village!
And Hecate, no matter how you endeavor to ignore the truth, it never goes away.
RMJ could attack me, but he could not reveal his God. Typical.
Priests prefer to deal with weak minds, and little boys, who don't question their insane ways.
It's sad to see a brain of his size so rotten with the prejudice of religion.
But, that's what makes this nice little village!
And Hecate, no matter how you endeavor to ignore the truth, it never goes away.
da trufe is rob:
Will a man yet wallow in his sin, crying "forgive me, forgive me" O' Lord? and so trample on the cross that was born for him? So have you done. In this you have judged yourself, and the Lord has judged you also. In one day, in three, shall you know your judgement.
The Lord has judged you, and found you wanting.
Your fate has been determined.
da trufe is rob:
Will a man yet wallow in his sin, crying "forgive me, forgive me" O' Lord? and so trample on the cross that was born for him? So have you done. In this you have judged yourself, and the Lord has judged you also. In one day, in three, shall you know your judgement.
The Lord has judged you, and found you wanting.
Your fate has been determined.
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop.
Nice way of stating it. Not a big fan myself, however. Actually, not a fan at all. Although country lyricists certainly know how to turn a verse.
krsaz is right. It is all about election reform.
Why am I depressed all over again?
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop.
Nice way of stating it. Not a big fan myself, however. Actually, not a fan at all. Although country lyricists certainly know how to turn a verse.
krsaz is right. It is all about election reform.
Why am I depressed all over again?
Incognito: re your post at 8:48. That is truly sad, because the hymns were the one good thing I brought away from church. There is something so truly uplifting in singing like that.
But I understand. I've been too depressed to post here for a few days. Mr. TJ and I are very worried about the future for our sons, and are slowly facing the fact that emigration may be the only answer.
Incognito: re your post at 8:48. That is truly sad, because the hymns were the one good thing I brought away from church. There is something so truly uplifting in singing like that.
But I understand. I've been too depressed to post here for a few days. Mr. TJ and I are very worried about the future for our sons, and are slowly facing the fact that emigration may be the only answer.
da trufe is--
Here's how you do it, RJM:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzz...
da trufe is--
Here's how you do it, RJM:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzz...
da trufe is rob
Very impressive posts Rob.
Thanks
da trufe is rob
Very impressive posts Rob.
Thanks
[cont'd]
A Republican real estate developer with the personality of an ashtray and ties to every business interest in Texas soundly trounced the mayor, and that was the end of Dem rule there.
A long story, yes, but this was the lab where they perfected it all. I was there. I saw it.
[cont'd]
A Republican real estate developer with the personality of an ashtray and ties to every business interest in Texas soundly trounced the mayor, and that was the end of Dem rule there.
A long story, yes, but this was the lab where they perfected it all. I was there. I saw it.
CNN Breaking News:
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
Just what the country needs, a cereal CEO in charge of commerce.
Snap! Crackle! Pop!
CNN Breaking News:
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
Just what the country needs, a cereal CEO in charge of commerce.
Snap! Crackle! Pop!
Why am I depressed all over again?
Because, like me and many others, you keep making that "getting out of bed" mistake, gotta stop doing that.
Why am I depressed all over again?
Because, like me and many others, you keep making that "getting out of bed" mistake, gotta stop doing that.
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
Shhhh!! Atrios will hear you and then he will throw a tantrum and shut down the blog.
Stop being so shrill!!
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
Shhhh!! Atrios will hear you and then he will throw a tantrum and shut down the blog.
Stop being so shrill!!
(oops, Haloscan picked up another name. Not that I care; I used it elsewhere as a smackdown...)
(oops, Haloscan picked up another name. Not that I care; I used it elsewhere as a smackdown...)
Fuck I gotta tolerate "liberal" Christianity which did nothing during the 80s while Falwell pranced about on stage condemning gays dying of AIDS many of whom where thrown out on the street while scaring Amorons about a "gay menace" and raking in millions if not billions, who knows. I have no use for any of them or their bogus belief system anymore.
Fuck I gotta tolerate "liberal" Christianity which did nothing during the 80s while Falwell pranced about on stage condemning gays dying of AIDS many of whom where thrown out on the street while scaring Amorons about a "gay menace" and raking in millions if not billions, who knows. I have no use for any of them or their bogus belief system anymore.
It seems clear that the main divide is between the urban and rural voters.
Nota - Exactly. The red/blue state meme is bullshit. Here is an excellent link to various election maps, scan down to the cartograms (compensate for large urban areas). Gives a much better picture than a topographical map.
It seems clear that the main divide is between the urban and rural voters.
Nota - Exactly. The red/blue state meme is bullshit. Here is an excellent link to various election maps, scan down to the cartograms (compensate for large urban areas). Gives a much better picture than a topographical map.
BTW, Tena, someone is Texas is going to have this hanging from their Christmas tree... don't know if they're a friend of yours, but it's funny how most of the products with this design are going to the Longhorn State!
BTW, Tena, someone is Texas is going to have this hanging from their Christmas tree... don't know if they're a friend of yours, but it's funny how most of the products with this design are going to the Longhorn State!
sorry folks, but I see religion as the downfall of humanity and the planet earth. so I fight it wherever I can.
the fact that Atrios chose a minister as his latest blogger just kills me.
Know thy enemy. Do not become him!
sorry folks, but I see religion as the downfall of humanity and the planet earth. so I fight it wherever I can.
the fact that Atrios chose a minister as his latest blogger just kills me.
Know thy enemy. Do not become him!
Sensitive - so true. They've perfected this art and we have got to realize that and push back where it will be affective.
Barry - They are still doing this in Dallas - one story after another about home invasion robberies - which are the rarest form of burglary/robbery out there. If not that, it is all about scaring the shit out of parents with hordes of "sexual predators."
It is crass sensationalism and I remember when it started, too.
Sensitive - so true. They've perfected this art and we have got to realize that and push back where it will be affective.
Barry - They are still doing this in Dallas - one story after another about home invasion robberies - which are the rarest form of burglary/robbery out there. If not that, it is all about scaring the shit out of parents with hordes of "sexual predators."
It is crass sensationalism and I remember when it started, too.
Tena:
The thing is, other than the blogs, I don't even see any outrage, the fact that the "morality issue" is coming from the same "flawed" exit polls just shows the sheer gall of these people. This election was stolen, I don't believe Bush won the popular vote nor the electoral college. I think there was massive electronic vote shifts from Kerry to Bush to garner this "mandate". How can we trust any election results from now on.
Tena:
The thing is, other than the blogs, I don't even see any outrage, the fact that the "morality issue" is coming from the same "flawed" exit polls just shows the sheer gall of these people. This election was stolen, I don't believe Bush won the popular vote nor the electoral college. I think there was massive electronic vote shifts from Kerry to Bush to garner this "mandate". How can we trust any election results from now on.
Nota - One more time with the link.
Nota - One more time with the link.
rather: Amoronicans
rather: Amoronicans
BlakNo1 ~
I'm all for staying in bed all day, provided I'm not alone.
I suppose I can't talk like a scarlet harlot anymore, now that this is officially Christ's America. I wonder how they will persecute me?
BlakNo1 ~
I'm all for staying in bed all day, provided I'm not alone.
I suppose I can't talk like a scarlet harlot anymore, now that this is officially Christ's America. I wonder how they will persecute me?
I agree with Barry. Virtually all of the real people I talk to know that there was widespread voter fraud and suppression.
If you look through the Election Incident Reporting System, the recurring thread in those 35,000 incidents were "I want my vote to count" and "I'm afraid my vote won't count." People knew that the Republicans intended to 'steal' the election, and people know that they did. They consider the 2000 election a fraud.
They just don't know what to do about it. And the MSM and even most of Air America are afraid to talk about it. Randi can only talk about "The election fraud in the Ukraine" (though we know what she is talking about.)
-
I agree with Barry. Virtually all of the real people I talk to know that there was widespread voter fraud and suppression.
If you look through the Election Incident Reporting System, the recurring thread in those 35,000 incidents were "I want my vote to count" and "I'm afraid my vote won't count." People knew that the Republicans intended to 'steal' the election, and people know that they did. They consider the 2000 election a fraud.
They just don't know what to do about it. And the MSM and even most of Air America are afraid to talk about it. Randi can only talk about "The election fraud in the Ukraine" (though we know what she is talking about.)
-
This score just in: Sanity - 1, Moronic Brownshirt Bigotry - 0:
Court Declines to Hear Gay Marriage Case
WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Monday sidestepped a dispute over gay marriages, rejecting a challenge to the nation's only law sanctioning such unions.
Justices had been asked by conservative groups to overturn the year-old decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Court legalizing gay marriage. They declined, without comment.
In the past year, at least 3,000 gay Massachusetts couples have wed, although voters may have a chance next year to change the state constitution to permit civil union benefits to same-sex couples, but not the institution of marriage.
Critics of the November 2003 ruling by the highest court in Massachusetts argue that it violated the U.S. Constitution's guarantee of a republican form of government in each state. They lost at the 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Boston...
This score just in: Sanity - 1, Moronic Brownshirt Bigotry - 0:
Court Declines to Hear Gay Marriage Case
WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Monday sidestepped a dispute over gay marriages, rejecting a challenge to the nation's only law sanctioning such unions.
Justices had been asked by conservative groups to overturn the year-old decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Court legalizing gay marriage. They declined, without comment.
In the past year, at least 3,000 gay Massachusetts couples have wed, although voters may have a chance next year to change the state constitution to permit civil union benefits to same-sex couples, but not the institution of marriage.
Critics of the November 2003 ruling by the highest court in Massachusetts argue that it violated the U.S. Constitution's guarantee of a republican form of government in each state. They lost at the 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Boston...
Barry - They are still doing this in Dallas - one story after another about home invasion robberies - which are the rarest form of burglary/robbery out there. If not that, it is all about scaring the shit out of parents with hordes of "sexual predators."
It is crass sensationalism and I remember when it started, too.
Reminds me of all those satanic cults abusing children back in the 80s.
Look over there! Bad things happening! Ignore the government!
Barry - They are still doing this in Dallas - one story after another about home invasion robberies - which are the rarest form of burglary/robbery out there. If not that, it is all about scaring the shit out of parents with hordes of "sexual predators."
It is crass sensationalism and I remember when it started, too.
Reminds me of all those satanic cults abusing children back in the 80s.
Look over there! Bad things happening! Ignore the government!
This election was stolen, I don't believe Bush won the popular vote nor the electoral college.
Take it elsewhere, buddy. Atrios don't tolerate this kinda shrillness.
He'll take his ball and go home.
This election was stolen, I don't believe Bush won the popular vote nor the electoral college.
Take it elsewhere, buddy. Atrios don't tolerate this kinda shrillness.
He'll take his ball and go home.
Thanks again chrix/tx!
I'm printing out some of those cartgrams
Thanks again chrix/tx!
I'm printing out some of those cartgrams
dave - Goddamn! I want a dozen of those. It wasn't me, but I'm sure glad that you posted that because now you are going to sell some more of them.
That's a beauty.
dave - Goddamn! I want a dozen of those. It wasn't me, but I'm sure glad that you posted that because now you are going to sell some more of them.
That's a beauty.
Barry Champlain hadn't managed to finish his excellent post about local nooze dictating the dialog, but I just wanted to add "like he say."
Never forget the local-nooze credo: "If it bleeds, it leads."
Such excellence in broadcasting has led to collective stupidity to the point that (for example) Americans tend to overstate not only the amount of crime they live with (specifically, they overstate the likelihood that children will be abducted by strangers, which has led to a whole 'nother kind of parental neurosis). They also are under the impression that African Americans account for something like 25% of the population, or even higher.
Just hordes of 'em, donchaknow. And they all want to rob, rape, and murder us.
Barry Champlain hadn't managed to finish his excellent post about local nooze dictating the dialog, but I just wanted to add "like he say."
Never forget the local-nooze credo: "If it bleeds, it leads."
Such excellence in broadcasting has led to collective stupidity to the point that (for example) Americans tend to overstate not only the amount of crime they live with (specifically, they overstate the likelihood that children will be abducted by strangers, which has led to a whole 'nother kind of parental neurosis). They also are under the impression that African Americans account for something like 25% of the population, or even higher.
Just hordes of 'em, donchaknow. And they all want to rob, rape, and murder us.
Fuck I gotta tolerate "liberal" Christianity which did nothing during the 80s
Incognito, this is plainly not true. In a lot of places it was liberal Christians who were doing AIDS education and who were organizing relief as well as fighting things like quarenteens.
I don't know how anyone can pretend that the people who choose Gene Robinson as a bishop or who support their beleagured lesbian and gay clergy are somehow in the same category as Falwell.
I've posted quite a bit about why the fascist "christians" are not really Christian to go into it now. But they really aren't.
Fuck I gotta tolerate "liberal" Christianity which did nothing during the 80s
Incognito, this is plainly not true. In a lot of places it was liberal Christians who were doing AIDS education and who were organizing relief as well as fighting things like quarenteens.
I don't know how anyone can pretend that the people who choose Gene Robinson as a bishop or who support their beleagured lesbian and gay clergy are somehow in the same category as Falwell.
I've posted quite a bit about why the fascist "christians" are not really Christian to go into it now. But they really aren't.
chris/tx,
After reading the Ohio elections link above I looked at the races for judges in Travis county. Do they have several of the checks next to the wrong names? Or is there some secret formula?
chris/tx,
After reading the Ohio elections link above I looked at the races for judges in Travis county. Do they have several of the checks next to the wrong names? Or is there some secret formula?
Dobson is the guy who wrote a book on child rearing. It's basic premise is that they need to be beaten regularly, starting as early as 15 months (with a wooden spoon!). These nut cases should not get on TV without having to answer for this shit.
Dobson is the guy who wrote a book on child rearing. It's basic premise is that they need to be beaten regularly, starting as early as 15 months (with a wooden spoon!). These nut cases should not get on TV without having to answer for this shit.
Those are pretty cool, Dave.
Coolest item I've seen yet - over at Mrs Betty Bowers - "DRAFT YOUNG REPUBLICANS" stickers, shirts,buttons, etc.
Thinking about buying a hundred of them...
Those are pretty cool, Dave.
Coolest item I've seen yet - over at Mrs Betty Bowers - "DRAFT YOUNG REPUBLICANS" stickers, shirts,buttons, etc.
Thinking about buying a hundred of them...
Fundies are like a little dog with a great big bark, and the bark is what's scaring the media and the more weak-kneed members of the Democratic party.
If you haven't read the entire linked article, go back and do so. The most illustrative passage is when Rich describes how 3 letters (yes, 3) prompted the FCC to attempt to levy a 1.2 million dollar fine on a TV show.
We should counter the fundies with their own tactics. Every time they launch some crackpot moral crusade/E-mail flood against ANYTHING, even something as foolish and trivial as the MNF clip, we need to forward so many form letters and clip and paste E-Mails to the attempted fundie targets that they swamp the fundies.
The fundies win precisely BECAUSE they pick foolish targets. Who would send MNF an "attaboy" for that goofy skit? So when 50,000 form E-mails show up with no opposing voices, industry execs and media pundits use this as an excuse to conclude that there is a force for morality well in excess of the actual numbers.
We can do this from here, or any one of a number of the blogs out there. Maybe a couple of The Eschatonians can step up and take turns. If the DNC won't do it, we have to do it.
BTW ignore the rob troll. About the 4th incarnation of this loser.
-
Fundies are like a little dog with a great big bark, and the bark is what's scaring the media and the more weak-kneed members of the Democratic party.
If you haven't read the entire linked article, go back and do so. The most illustrative passage is when Rich describes how 3 letters (yes, 3) prompted the FCC to attempt to levy a 1.2 million dollar fine on a TV show.
We should counter the fundies with their own tactics. Every time they launch some crackpot moral crusade/E-mail flood against ANYTHING, even something as foolish and trivial as the MNF clip, we need to forward so many form letters and clip and paste E-Mails to the attempted fundie targets that they swamp the fundies.
The fundies win precisely BECAUSE they pick foolish targets. Who would send MNF an "attaboy" for that goofy skit? So when 50,000 form E-mails show up with no opposing voices, industry execs and media pundits use this as an excuse to conclude that there is a force for morality well in excess of the actual numbers.
We can do this from here, or any one of a number of the blogs out there. Maybe a couple of The Eschatonians can step up and take turns. If the DNC won't do it, we have to do it.
BTW ignore the rob troll. About the 4th incarnation of this loser.
-
Generally, the people I know have a sense that the election was rigged. They feel despair because they don't know what part they can play in election reform. When you've been disenfranchised, you tend to believe that whatever you do to try to change the system is inconsequential. It is like being abused/victimized ~ an overriding sense of helplessness, as someone noted up thread (or on another recent post).
Generally, the people I know have a sense that the election was rigged. They feel despair because they don't know what part they can play in election reform. When you've been disenfranchised, you tend to believe that whatever you do to try to change the system is inconsequential. It is like being abused/victimized ~ an overriding sense of helplessness, as someone noted up thread (or on another recent post).
the more weak-kneed members of the Democratic party.
Upthread was a note about the margins of victory enjoyed by legislative measures which raised the punitive fines which could be levied by the FCC against violators of 'decency'. It was about 99-1 in the Senate. With so many weak knees, it's a wonder any of them can walk...
the more weak-kneed members of the Democratic party.
Upthread was a note about the margins of victory enjoyed by legislative measures which raised the punitive fines which could be levied by the FCC against violators of 'decency'. It was about 99-1 in the Senate. With so many weak knees, it's a wonder any of them can walk...
Nota - Yeah, does look funny, but don't know the answer. Holden or David(Austin) is the Travis county expert.
Nota - Yeah, does look funny, but don't know the answer. Holden or David(Austin) is the Travis county expert.
That's a beauty.
Hey, I've got a whole Christmas shop!
Truly, it's the most wonderful time of the year!*
(*"The Most Wonderful Time of the Year" is a wholly owned trademark of Walmart Corp...)
That's a beauty.
Hey, I've got a whole Christmas shop!
Truly, it's the most wonderful time of the year!*
(*"The Most Wonderful Time of the Year" is a wholly owned trademark of Walmart Corp...)
I love this site. You moonbats are hilarious.
I love this site. You moonbats are hilarious.
Coolest item I've seen yet - over at Mrs Betty Bowers - "DRAFT YOUNG REPUBLICANS" stickers, shirts,buttons, etc.
What I usually say about Betty: wish I'd thought of that!
Coolest item I've seen yet - over at Mrs Betty Bowers - "DRAFT YOUNG REPUBLICANS" stickers, shirts,buttons, etc.
What I usually say about Betty: wish I'd thought of that!
Hey Dave,
I may just have to do some Christmas shopping at your site! Got mugs?
Hey Dave,
I may just have to do some Christmas shopping at your site! Got mugs?
Reread the polls. The moral values kerfuffle was the only issue Bush outpolled Kerry on. The screeching heads can't explain Bush's "win" by looking at the other numbers, war, economy, headed in the right direction - he was behind Kerry on all of those.
Reread the polls. The moral values kerfuffle was the only issue Bush outpolled Kerry on. The screeching heads can't explain Bush's "win" by looking at the other numbers, war, economy, headed in the right direction - he was behind Kerry on all of those.
Vicki:
The only to repair the current electile dysfunction is through legislation, which will never be enacted because the current system favors ALL the current players, of both so-called 'parties,' all of whom owe their positions (now and in the future) to the system status quo.
Vicki:
The only to repair the current electile dysfunction is through legislation, which will never be enacted because the current system favors ALL the current players, of both so-called 'parties,' all of whom owe their positions (now and in the future) to the system status quo.
dave - just ordered 4. A dozen was a bit of an overstatement.
But that is really a nice product.
dave - just ordered 4. A dozen was a bit of an overstatement.
But that is really a nice product.
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
Oh good. I'm cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
Oh wait. That's General Mills.
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
Oh good. I'm cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
Oh wait. That's General Mills.
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
Tena
Amen, sister. I agree. But to where do I throw my fit? Who will listen? Who will not think I'm a conspiracy nut?
I reject this election as I did the 2000, which gave us a fraudulent administration. How could the 2004 election be anything BUT a travesty, since the people running on the Rethuglican ticket were not legitimate to begin with?
Bleh.
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
Tena
Amen, sister. I agree. But to where do I throw my fit? Who will listen? Who will not think I'm a conspiracy nut?
I reject this election as I did the 2000, which gave us a fraudulent administration. How could the 2004 election be anything BUT a travesty, since the people running on the Rethuglican ticket were not legitimate to begin with?
Bleh.
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
Doesn't matter if he's qualified. He's Hispanic, and that's all that counts. Tick off another "minority" in the win column.
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
Doesn't matter if he's qualified. He's Hispanic, and that's all that counts. Tick off another "minority" in the win column.
Reread the polls. The moral values kerfuffle was the only issue Bush outpolled Kerry on. The screeching heads can't explain Bush's "win" by looking at the other numbers, war, economy, headed in the right direction - he was behind Kerry on all of those.
No wonder he got slaughtered.
Mars, bitches!
Reread the polls. The moral values kerfuffle was the only issue Bush outpolled Kerry on. The screeching heads can't explain Bush's "win" by looking at the other numbers, war, economy, headed in the right direction - he was behind Kerry on all of those.
No wonder he got slaughtered.
Mars, bitches!
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
I guess it's special K in the morning briefing room with coffee -- but somehow I always pictured Dubya with a "Daffy Duck" bowlful of Count Chocula or Frankenberry
just saying ...
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
I guess it's special K in the morning briefing room with coffee -- but somehow I always pictured Dubya with a "Daffy Duck" bowlful of Count Chocula or Frankenberry
just saying ...
Someone here should start a band called The Shrieking Moonbats, or just Shrieking Moonbats. That's such a hilarious term, I can't believe "they" think it's such a hurtful insult, what idiots.
Someone here should start a band called The Shrieking Moonbats, or just Shrieking Moonbats. That's such a hilarious term, I can't believe "they" think it's such a hurtful insult, what idiots.
George - Exactly. This is what I've been saying. And Fielding - yep, 3 letters. That's why I say that writing works. Write to newspapers. Write to local news programs. Write to networks.
We made Sinclair stock go south. We have the power to make them listen. We have to use it.
George - Exactly. This is what I've been saying. And Fielding - yep, 3 letters. That's why I say that writing works. Write to newspapers. Write to local news programs. Write to networks.
We made Sinclair stock go south. We have the power to make them listen. We have to use it.
"This is about way more than "hurt feelings," love. This is about what is true and what isn't."
Tena, dear - the truth has never had any place in politics yet and will not now, for it's so easily varied. That's kind of the point - force political discourse and conduct onto the road where truth is goal - but since there is no 'truth' and since truth itself is something that can be so easily imposed - the truth of the Virgin Birth for example, or the truth of the 'morals voter' or the truth of the perfection of Shrubbery - eh, voila! No more resistance. No more political or economic discussion because politics and economics are made subsets of truthseeking.
None of this is about seeking 'truth'. Most of it is about a truth being exhorted and imposed to the detriment of a great many who have mistaken truthseeking for governance.
I'm pretty sure that's the way the game is played these days.
"This is about way more than "hurt feelings," love. This is about what is true and what isn't."
Tena, dear - the truth has never had any place in politics yet and will not now, for it's so easily varied. That's kind of the point - force political discourse and conduct onto the road where truth is goal - but since there is no 'truth' and since truth itself is something that can be so easily imposed - the truth of the Virgin Birth for example, or the truth of the 'morals voter' or the truth of the perfection of Shrubbery - eh, voila! No more resistance. No more political or economic discussion because politics and economics are made subsets of truthseeking.
None of this is about seeking 'truth'. Most of it is about a truth being exhorted and imposed to the detriment of a great many who have mistaken truthseeking for governance.
I'm pretty sure that's the way the game is played these days.
Sorry, last post should've said force for "morality"..
-
Sorry, last post should've said force for "morality"..
-
Generally, the people I know have a sense that the election was rigged.
I suspect they will have that sense every time they lose. It's easier than facing reality.
Generally, the people I know have a sense that the election was rigged.
I suspect they will have that sense every time they lose. It's easier than facing reality.
syntallic ~
Dubya's breakfast of choice has to be Fruit Loops.
syntallic ~
Dubya's breakfast of choice has to be Fruit Loops.
Doesn't matter if he's qualified. He's Hispanic, and that's all that counts. Tick off another "minority" in the win column.
watertiger
yupperz, waterdude -- as soon as the press release highlights the ethnic or racial background it's a neon sign that says, "see, we got summa dem darkies workin in the administration -- we're okay guys, see?"
how pathetic
Doesn't matter if he's qualified. He's Hispanic, and that's all that counts. Tick off another "minority" in the win column.
watertiger
yupperz, waterdude -- as soon as the press release highlights the ethnic or racial background it's a neon sign that says, "see, we got summa dem darkies workin in the administration -- we're okay guys, see?"
how pathetic
Battle of the Bands:
Shrieking Moonbats vs Cockroach Weed
Battle of the Bands:
Shrieking Moonbats vs Cockroach Weed
The only to repair the current electile dysfunction is through legislation, which will never be enacted because the current system favors ALL the current players, of both so-called 'parties,' all of whom owe their positions (now and in the future) to the system status quo.
Konopelli
It's all one big Minstrel Show for the Powers That Fucking Be or then what the fuck else, people?
The only to repair the current electile dysfunction is through legislation, which will never be enacted because the current system favors ALL the current players, of both so-called 'parties,' all of whom owe their positions (now and in the future) to the system status quo.
Konopelli
It's all one big Minstrel Show for the Powers That Fucking Be or then what the fuck else, people?
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out?
"The Democrats" aren't pointing this out because there is a powerful faction in the Democratic party -- arguably the dominant faction -- whose internal factional interest is served by preserving the myth that "moral values" in the exact same sense as the right wing likes to use the term decided the election.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out?
"The Democrats" aren't pointing this out because there is a powerful faction in the Democratic party -- arguably the dominant faction -- whose internal factional interest is served by preserving the myth that "moral values" in the exact same sense as the right wing likes to use the term decided the election.
BlakNo1 ~
In our local paper, they've started "terming" (and that was the exact word used in a LTE) Democrats as "bubbleheads" because we are "out of touch with red America."
BlakNo1 ~
In our local paper, they've started "terming" (and that was the exact word used in a LTE) Democrats as "bubbleheads" because we are "out of touch with red America."
Got mugs?
Here's one for you.
More here, here, and here...
The link to the full store is here.
Got mugs?
Here's one for you.
More here, here, and here...
The link to the full store is here.
I was introduced to Desparate Housewives when I was staying over with a friend who was living in a Rectory. Desperate Housewives appears to be the parish priest's favorite show. So if it's good enough for the Catholics, what could be wrong with it?
I was introduced to Desparate Housewives when I was staying over with a friend who was living in a Rectory. Desperate Housewives appears to be the parish priest's favorite show. So if it's good enough for the Catholics, what could be wrong with it?
Feel the love. I was reading the letters column in New York Magazine today. All the letters were nasty frothings from rightwingers howling in rage because New Yorkers didn't vote for the little Napoleon. These are the same clowns who came to New York in August and managed to squeeze out some fake emotion over 9/11. What angry little buffoons. A month after the election and they are still in a rage. I think that the theme song for the cons should be I CAN'T GET NO SATISFACTION.
Feel the love. I was reading the letters column in New York Magazine today. All the letters were nasty frothings from rightwingers howling in rage because New Yorkers didn't vote for the little Napoleon. These are the same clowns who came to New York in August and managed to squeeze out some fake emotion over 9/11. What angry little buffoons. A month after the election and they are still in a rage. I think that the theme song for the cons should be I CAN'T GET NO SATISFACTION.
DAS,
I watched Desperate Housewives for the first time last night ~ it didn't do much for me.
DAS,
I watched Desperate Housewives for the first time last night ~ it didn't do much for me.
Dubya's breakfast of choice has to be Fruit Loops.
Vicki Stein
i thought about fruit loops and trix ... but they aren't overtly manly cereals .. the fruit in fruit loops would make him recall those long dark nights at Yale with the Ambassador to Poland ... and trix would remind him too much of the CIA sex slaves that he and cheney get to chase around for another four years --- dubya is into "impreshuns", ya know? can't seem too much like a heathen with Fallwell and Robertson nipping at his heels for more gaybashing
Dubya's breakfast of choice has to be Fruit Loops.
Vicki Stein
i thought about fruit loops and trix ... but they aren't overtly manly cereals .. the fruit in fruit loops would make him recall those long dark nights at Yale with the Ambassador to Poland ... and trix would remind him too much of the CIA sex slaves that he and cheney get to chase around for another four years --- dubya is into "impreshuns", ya know? can't seem too much like a heathen with Fallwell and Robertson nipping at his heels for more gaybashing
You wanna know where Democrats are?
They're sitting in their little bunker getting demoralized as the listen to other supposed democrats whine and proclaim themselves the "battered wives" of Amerikan politics. Wasn't that a nice, loaded phrase to toss into the hands of our rethug "batterers"? Instead of framing the state of Amerikan electoral politics properly, as a battle for democracy and sound management of the government, some choose to pose it as a domestic violence issue with Democrats as the weak, powerless, fearful victims of their infinitely more powerful oppressors. Why don't we just call ourselves slaves and be done with it, if that's the attitude you want to bring to the discussion? At least slaves can hope to be free one day, while battered wives usually keep going back to their abusers.
The Democratic candidate lost by 2.76% in an election that was tainted by fraud. Instead of pursuing the real problems we need to address (i.e., blackbox voting, rampant rethug fraud, the conservative media and the influence of "radical clerics"), sites like this insist on attacking other Democrats. Half the time, people here whinge on that liberals shouldn't be angry with the rethugs becuase "they're not our enemies". The rest of the time, you're on about how the Democratic Party isn't angry enough about the rethugs' many crimes. Which is it? Maybe you should make up you own fucking minds before you start ordering the party leadership to do anything.
Ya'll are part of the damned problem. The hell of it is, you insist on prescribing "solutions" that will only make things worse.
You wanna know where Democrats are?
They're sitting in their little bunker getting demoralized as the listen to other supposed democrats whine and proclaim themselves the "battered wives" of Amerikan politics. Wasn't that a nice, loaded phrase to toss into the hands of our rethug "batterers"? Instead of framing the state of Amerikan electoral politics properly, as a battle for democracy and sound management of the government, some choose to pose it as a domestic violence issue with Democrats as the weak, powerless, fearful victims of their infinitely more powerful oppressors. Why don't we just call ourselves slaves and be done with it, if that's the attitude you want to bring to the discussion? At least slaves can hope to be free one day, while battered wives usually keep going back to their abusers.
The Democratic candidate lost by 2.76% in an election that was tainted by fraud. Instead of pursuing the real problems we need to address (i.e., blackbox voting, rampant rethug fraud, the conservative media and the influence of "radical clerics"), sites like this insist on attacking other Democrats. Half the time, people here whinge on that liberals shouldn't be angry with the rethugs becuase "they're not our enemies". The rest of the time, you're on about how the Democratic Party isn't angry enough about the rethugs' many crimes. Which is it? Maybe you should make up you own fucking minds before you start ordering the party leadership to do anything.
Ya'll are part of the damned problem. The hell of it is, you insist on prescribing "solutions" that will only make things worse.
Vicki Stein - Write to the paper. There's no excuse for that but we have to tell them that or they will keep on in the same vein.
Vicki Stein - Write to the paper. There's no excuse for that but we have to tell them that or they will keep on in the same vein.
In our local paper, they've started "terming" (and that was the exact word used in a LTE) Democrats as "bubbleheads" because we are "out of touch with red America."
Vicki Stein | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 11:54 am
My God, Vicki! Where do you live? What paper is that?
And isn't it revealing how proudly the (nominally, and formerly rabid anti-communists) succumb to the label "Red Americans?"
In our local paper, they've started "terming" (and that was the exact word used in a LTE) Democrats as "bubbleheads" because we are "out of touch with red America."
Vicki Stein | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 11:54 am
My God, Vicki! Where do you live? What paper is that?
And isn't it revealing how proudly the (nominally, and formerly rabid anti-communists) succumb to the label "Red Americans?"
Half the time, people here whinge on that liberals shouldn't be angry with the rethugs becuase "they're not our enemies".
I must've missed that half of the posts here...
Half the time, people here whinge on that liberals shouldn't be angry with the rethugs becuase "they're not our enemies".
I must've missed that half of the posts here...
Dubya's breakfast of choice has to be Fruit Loops.
Vicki Stein
I'd have thought Lucky Charms or Capt'n Crunch.
Dubya's breakfast of choice has to be Fruit Loops.
Vicki Stein
I'd have thought Lucky Charms or Capt'n Crunch.
Tena, I do write. All the time. I exceed the imposed 60 day limit for Letters to the Editor. I know I said this earlier, and I regret sounding shrill, but it amazes me how many ignorant people are out there, assuming that because Jesus is on their side, they have authority over the rest of us.
It's really pissing me off.
Tena, I do write. All the time. I exceed the imposed 60 day limit for Letters to the Editor. I know I said this earlier, and I regret sounding shrill, but it amazes me how many ignorant people are out there, assuming that because Jesus is on their side, they have authority over the rest of us.
It's really pissing me off.
I watched Desperate Housewives for the first time last night ~ it didn't do much for me.
Yeah, it's not my fave, either, though my wife likes it.
Definitely flavor of the month - season two will be a real disaster...
I watched Desperate Housewives for the first time last night ~ it didn't do much for me.
Yeah, it's not my fave, either, though my wife likes it.
Definitely flavor of the month - season two will be a real disaster...
Someone here should start a band called The Shrieking Moonbats, or just Shrieking Moonbats. That's such a hilarious term, I can't believe "they" think it's such a hurtful insult, what idiots.
BlakNo1
case closed then .. i'd rather be a moonbat than a rethug neo-nazi
Someone here should start a band called The Shrieking Moonbats, or just Shrieking Moonbats. That's such a hilarious term, I can't believe "they" think it's such a hurtful insult, what idiots.
BlakNo1
case closed then .. i'd rather be a moonbat than a rethug neo-nazi
"Red America", that phrase just says it all to me.
Damned "Manchurian" voters.
"Red America", that phrase just says it all to me.
Damned "Manchurian" voters.
Someone here should start a band called The Shrieking Moonbats, or just Shrieking Moonbats. That's such a hilarious term, I can't believe "they" think it's such a hurtful insult, what idiots.
BlakNo1
My daughter's favorite book when she was very little was Stellaluna, about a little bat who gets separated from her mom and finds lots of new friends in the jungle. That's what I usually think of when I read "moonbat," and it always gives me a little boost.
-
Someone here should start a band called The Shrieking Moonbats, or just Shrieking Moonbats. That's such a hilarious term, I can't believe "they" think it's such a hurtful insult, what idiots.
BlakNo1
My daughter's favorite book when she was very little was Stellaluna, about a little bat who gets separated from her mom and finds lots of new friends in the jungle. That's what I usually think of when I read "moonbat," and it always gives me a little boost.
-
Konopelli,
The Grand Rapids Press.
Konopelli,
The Grand Rapids Press.
Wow, Xeno, you're so authentic.
Not!
Wow, Xeno, you're so authentic.
Not!
Remember that whenever a troll uses the term "moonbat", he is just trolling for some hot "butt-sex".
Remember that whenever a troll uses the term "moonbat", he is just trolling for some hot "butt-sex".
Turn off national news with corporate sponsors
Turn off national news with corporate sponsors
sekmet,
yeah, we NYers were real impressed with how quickly that $20 million got funneled into other programs, none of which benefitted NYC.
But Wyoming now has top of the line radio equipment for its firefighters, so I suppose I should have voted for Bush for keeping Cheney's peeps safe.
sekmet,
yeah, we NYers were real impressed with how quickly that $20 million got funneled into other programs, none of which benefitted NYC.
But Wyoming now has top of the line radio equipment for its firefighters, so I suppose I should have voted for Bush for keeping Cheney's peeps safe.
Guess we'll all be having milk and cereal now.
Darn those political appointments.
Guess we'll all be having milk and cereal now.
Darn those political appointments.
I absolutely agree with Tena that the issue of moral values is a media creation. But it is being defined by the same thinking that gave us Iraq. 'You're either with us or against us."
And the RRC's are doing that. Every TV appearance is a recruitment drive to their way of thinking. Pols, media whores, the polity will fall in lock step. And before you know it every rational and constructive idea that benefits all of us will be cast aside to search for these "moral values." Meanwhile finding these "moral values" will remain as elusive as the WMD. And like Iraq, the US will wake up with a giant headache and "moral values related programs."
I absolutely agree with Tena that the issue of moral values is a media creation. But it is being defined by the same thinking that gave us Iraq. 'You're either with us or against us."
And the RRC's are doing that. Every TV appearance is a recruitment drive to their way of thinking. Pols, media whores, the polity will fall in lock step. And before you know it every rational and constructive idea that benefits all of us will be cast aside to search for these "moral values." Meanwhile finding these "moral values" will remain as elusive as the WMD. And like Iraq, the US will wake up with a giant headache and "moral values related programs."
I swear an atheistic oath: I shall never attack a fellow Progressive who forthrightly attacks the out-right theft of the electoral process of US national elections.
Conversely, I shall never support any politician of any party, who denies the existence of such fraud or its consequences; or who fails to oppose it in every and any way possible...
This I swear...
I swear an atheistic oath: I shall never attack a fellow Progressive who forthrightly attacks the out-right theft of the electoral process of US national elections.
Conversely, I shall never support any politician of any party, who denies the existence of such fraud or its consequences; or who fails to oppose it in every and any way possible...
This I swear...
Wait a minute! While nobody questioned me in any sort of exit polls, I did, in fact, base my vote on moral values.
I know this is sacrilege to say here, but Bush is keeping us safe (by giving into Al Qaeda demands at every opportunity) and keeping the economy afloat in the short term (by spending money like a drunken sailor wherein Halliburton, et al, get to play the roll of the dock-side whores) ... but voting for a guy who supports such anti-life policies as Mr. Bush is morally wrong.
For example - do you know that the Feds. are trying to prosecute dying people for using medical marijuana even when it prolongs their lives? What happened to states' rights (seems to me that, unlike in the case of regulation of drug companies whose drugs are transported accross state lines, the feds have no jurisdiction over whether some cancer patient in Cali decides to smoke some locally grown ganja -- I love a big fed. government as much as anyone else here ... but I don't see where a bunch of so-called conservatives get the idea that the feds have any Cheneying jurisdiction here ... it's like the fugitative slave law or something!)? The so-called pro-life crowd would also have a woman forgo a so-called partial birth abortion even if that means the damage from carrying the infected fetus to term would make the mother infertile.
This hardly sounds pro-life to me.
The Rethug party respects fetuses and profits over the lives of living, breathing, eating humans. They are amoral if not immoral.
I think maybe the likes of Kristoff are right in a way. But we Dems. shouldn't change our platform at all - we just need to hammer home that we have the moral position -- not the self-righteous Rethugs.
I mean - who would Jesus have voted for? Certainly not BushCO!
Wait a minute! While nobody questioned me in any sort of exit polls, I did, in fact, base my vote on moral values.
I know this is sacrilege to say here, but Bush is keeping us safe (by giving into Al Qaeda demands at every opportunity) and keeping the economy afloat in the short term (by spending money like a drunken sailor wherein Halliburton, et al, get to play the roll of the dock-side whores) ... but voting for a guy who supports such anti-life policies as Mr. Bush is morally wrong.
For example - do you know that the Feds. are trying to prosecute dying people for using medical marijuana even when it prolongs their lives? What happened to states' rights (seems to me that, unlike in the case of regulation of drug companies whose drugs are transported accross state lines, the feds have no jurisdiction over whether some cancer patient in Cali decides to smoke some locally grown ganja -- I love a big fed. government as much as anyone else here ... but I don't see where a bunch of so-called conservatives get the idea that the feds have any Cheneying jurisdiction here ... it's like the fugitative slave law or something!)? The so-called pro-life crowd would also have a woman forgo a so-called partial birth abortion even if that means the damage from carrying the infected fetus to term would make the mother infertile.
This hardly sounds pro-life to me.
The Rethug party respects fetuses and profits over the lives of living, breathing, eating humans. They are amoral if not immoral.
I think maybe the likes of Kristoff are right in a way. But we Dems. shouldn't change our platform at all - we just need to hammer home that we have the moral position -- not the self-righteous Rethugs.
I mean - who would Jesus have voted for? Certainly not BushCO!
I made a poo poo.
I made a poo poo.
Konopelli, My version is, If they're doing good work and not hurting anyone, I don't care how they feel.
Konopelli, My version is, If they're doing good work and not hurting anyone, I don't care how they feel.
I swear an atheistic oath: I shall never att-...
Konopelli
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz
I swear an atheistic oath: I shall never att-...
Konopelli
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz
Btw: Small blizzard in Albuquerque this AM: an inch or two in about two hours. Roads slippery and treacherous as a right-wing preacher...
Btw: Small blizzard in Albuquerque this AM: an inch or two in about two hours. Roads slippery and treacherous as a right-wing preacher...
I'm a tamakeri submissive, KICK ME HARD!!
I'm a tamakeri submissive, KICK ME HARD!!
Needless to say, that "ZZZzzZZ" wasn't me.
I agree with every word of that oath myself.
Needless to say, that "ZZZzzZZ" wasn't me.
I agree with every word of that oath myself.
But we Dems. shouldn't change our platform at all - we just need to hammer home that we have the moral position -- not the self-righteous Rethugs.
DAS, there is nothing wrong with Democrats' values. It's the values of the ruling class and their media that are degenerate and unAmerican. Greed is not good. Ignorance is not knowlege. Entertainment isn't real. Being kwuuuul isn't cool.
But we Dems. shouldn't change our platform at all - we just need to hammer home that we have the moral position -- not the self-righteous Rethugs.
DAS, there is nothing wrong with Democrats' values. It's the values of the ruling class and their media that are degenerate and unAmerican. Greed is not good. Ignorance is not knowlege. Entertainment isn't real. Being kwuuuul isn't cool.
Ooops, heh heh.....
Ooops, heh heh.....
"da trufe is rob:
Will a man yet wallow in his sin, crying "forgive me, forgive me" O' Lord? and so trample on the cross that was born for him? So have you done. In this you have judged yourself, and the Lord has judged you also. In one day, in three, shall you know your judgement.
The Lord has judged you, and found you wanting.
Your fate has been determined. Barndog"
Dost thou know the Lord oh brave warrior of ignorance?
My fate, my fate says your a bigger fool than you indicate.
there is no god pal. He's just a manifesatation of the infancy of our race. Go read the Treaty of Tripoli as well, you being a military geek and all. Notice the "U.S. is not a christian nation" part and stuff your brimstone up your massive asshole.
And keep your hands of the wee boys if ya can. You psycho bible thumping half witted infant.
Hell is the little world you've contructed to live in. But don't worry that you have nothing. You are just a servant of Allah! Heaven is where I live, in da trufe!
"da trufe is rob:
Will a man yet wallow in his sin, crying "forgive me, forgive me" O' Lord? and so trample on the cross that was born for him? So have you done. In this you have judged yourself, and the Lord has judged you also. In one day, in three, shall you know your judgement.
The Lord has judged you, and found you wanting.
Your fate has been determined. Barndog"
Dost thou know the Lord oh brave warrior of ignorance?
My fate, my fate says your a bigger fool than you indicate.
there is no god pal. He's just a manifesatation of the infancy of our race. Go read the Treaty of Tripoli as well, you being a military geek and all. Notice the "U.S. is not a christian nation" part and stuff your brimstone up your massive asshole.
And keep your hands of the wee boys if ya can. You psycho bible thumping half witted infant.
Hell is the little world you've contructed to live in. But don't worry that you have nothing. You are just a servant of Allah! Heaven is where I live, in da trufe!
"Desperate Housewives is hardly a blue-state phenomenon. A hit everywhere, it is even a bigger hit in Oklahoma City than it is in Los Angeles, bigger in Kansas City than it is in New York."
I remember in high school that the more a girl when to chruch, especially if she was Pentacostal or Church of Christ, which meant she could not go to dances, the better the chance of getting in her panties, usually on the first date.
Almost every "holly roller" I've known has screwed around on the side.
My point: the bastards are hypocrits to the extreme.
"Desperate Housewives is hardly a blue-state phenomenon. A hit everywhere, it is even a bigger hit in Oklahoma City than it is in Los Angeles, bigger in Kansas City than it is in New York."
I remember in high school that the more a girl when to chruch, especially if she was Pentacostal or Church of Christ, which meant she could not go to dances, the better the chance of getting in her panties, usually on the first date.
Almost every "holly roller" I've known has screwed around on the side.
My point: the bastards are hypocrits to the extreme.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
The True Conservative
What a laugh. Lying, cheating, stealing, bigot talking about moral values.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
The True Conservative
What a laugh. Lying, cheating, stealing, bigot talking about moral values.
Xeno --
I think I agree with your general thinking, but isn't it a bit contradictory to say:
Ya'll are part of the damned problem. The hell of it is, you insist on prescribing "solutions" that will only make things worse.
and then complain that
like this insist on attacking other Democrats.
???
Xeno --
I think I agree with your general thinking, but isn't it a bit contradictory to say:
Ya'll are part of the damned problem. The hell of it is, you insist on prescribing "solutions" that will only make things worse.
and then complain that
like this insist on attacking other Democrats.
???
What JJ said, clarity please.
What JJ said, clarity please.
Now the poo poo is on my legs.
Now the poo poo is on my legs.
For what it's worth, here are some pieces that touch on these issues of "whose morality?"
- American Taliban
- Markets, Morality and Monday Night Football
- Red America: Coming to a Body Near You
For what it's worth, here are some pieces that touch on these issues of "whose morality?"
- American Taliban
- Markets, Morality and Monday Night Football
- Red America: Coming to a Body Near You
xeno,
I love that your from Elia-
The name of Jerusalem from 128 AD till like 326 AD.
Why dost thou reject Jerusalem as such?
Thy eternal soul migth be due for a roasting!
xeno,
I love that your from Elia-
The name of Jerusalem from 128 AD till like 326 AD.
Why dost thou reject Jerusalem as such?
Thy eternal soul migth be due for a roasting!
Just remember this: "moral values" and the entire abortion brouhaha are about one thing, and one thing only:
Fucking.
That's it, that's all these shitheads think about is people fucking.. That's the full extent of their moral outrage. You can steal (see Entron, Halliburton, Arbusto, etc) or kill (see Iraq) all day, but don't even think about fucking.
Just remember this: "moral values" and the entire abortion brouhaha are about one thing, and one thing only:
Fucking.
That's it, that's all these shitheads think about is people fucking.. That's the full extent of their moral outrage. You can steal (see Entron, Halliburton, Arbusto, etc) or kill (see Iraq) all day, but don't even think about fucking.
Gary,
You made me think of the passage in Carlin's "Seven Dirty Words" where he substitutes the word "fuck" for the word "kill."
Gary,
You made me think of the passage in Carlin's "Seven Dirty Words" where he substitutes the word "fuck" for the word "kill."
don't even think about fucking.
Too late.
don't even think about fucking.
Too late.
Sheriff, we're gonna fuck ya, slow...
Sheriff, we're gonna fuck ya, slow...
Why do Republicans hate fucking?
Why do Republicans hate fucking?
Gary:
Two words: felafel. loofah.
'Nuff said.
Gary:
Two words: felafel. loofah.
'Nuff said.
da trufe is robbed every time rob opens his mouth.
da trufe is robbed every time rob opens his mouth.
Why do Republicans hate fucking?
Cuz every time they do it, they wind up with another mouth to feed.
Why do Republicans hate fucking?
Cuz every time they do it, they wind up with another mouth to feed.
Almost every "holly roller" I've known has screwed around on the side.
My point: the bastards are hypocrits to the extreme.
freepress
Couldn't agree more. Back in my Army days a young lady told me that we couldn't "date" after some pretty interesting preliminaries the previous weekend, because she wanted a "good Christian."
Within two weeks, they had a suprise barracks inspection and pulled her "good Christian" out of her wall locker and clad only in his skivvies.
-
Almost every "holly roller" I've known has screwed around on the side.
My point: the bastards are hypocrits to the extreme.
freepress
Couldn't agree more. Back in my Army days a young lady told me that we couldn't "date" after some pretty interesting preliminaries the previous weekend, because she wanted a "good Christian."
Within two weeks, they had a suprise barracks inspection and pulled her "good Christian" out of her wall locker and clad only in his skivvies.
-
Shaw Kenawe - well, I agree that the problem is getting heard and I don't have an easy fix for that. Maybe someone else will come up with the answer.
The only one I know right now is to be as noisy as you can. Write write write, complain, write, rinse and repeat.
I'm sure there are better ways. We need to take advantage of our numbers. There are more of us than of them and letting them make all the noise is kind of what got us here.
Bush and Rove are exploiting the outrage and ginning it up at every opportunity. They have all the help they could want from the media. I just don't know how to counter that except by being louder and more numerous.
Shaw Kenawe - well, I agree that the problem is getting heard and I don't have an easy fix for that. Maybe someone else will come up with the answer.
The only one I know right now is to be as noisy as you can. Write write write, complain, write, rinse and repeat.
I'm sure there are better ways. We need to take advantage of our numbers. There are more of us than of them and letting them make all the noise is kind of what got us here.
Bush and Rove are exploiting the outrage and ginning it up at every opportunity. They have all the help they could want from the media. I just don't know how to counter that except by being louder and more numerous.
Almost every "holly roller" I've known has screwed around on the side.
The louder they bellow about morality, the more they have to hide.
Almost every "holly roller" I've known has screwed around on the side.
The louder they bellow about morality, the more they have to hide.
Two words: felafel. loofah.
..hasenpfeffer incorporated?
-
Two words: felafel. loofah.
..hasenpfeffer incorporated?
-
I looked at the Election Central link provided by chris/tx
Some of the check marks appear to be by the losing candidate, because of the way the redistricting scam worked out.
Austin was split into 3 districts, which was designed to dilute the voting block that is Austin.
So, for example, eventhough Bob Scarborough received more votes in Travis county for Railroad commissioner, that is a statewide office, so he took the majority vote statewide.
Williamson county is to the north of Austin (surburban Austin). There Bush won out 65% to 33%. Which highlights the Urban/Suburban divide in Texas
I looked at the Election Central link provided by chris/tx
Some of the check marks appear to be by the losing candidate, because of the way the redistricting scam worked out.
Austin was split into 3 districts, which was designed to dilute the voting block that is Austin.
So, for example, eventhough Bob Scarborough received more votes in Travis county for Railroad commissioner, that is a statewide office, so he took the majority vote statewide.
Williamson county is to the north of Austin (surburban Austin). There Bush won out 65% to 33%. Which highlights the Urban/Suburban divide in Texas
It is long past time to begin referring to Falwell, Dobson, Reed, et.al as radical American clerics consistently, over and over and over whenever their names are mentioned.
It is long past time to begin referring to Falwell, Dobson, Reed, et.al as radical American clerics consistently, over and over and over whenever their names are mentioned.
Give us any chance, we'll take it
Give us any rule, we'll break it...
Give us any chance, we'll take it
Give us any rule, we'll break it...
Investigating election fraud is an important exercise for democracy in every election, not just this one. I think Democrats should be a bit leery of charging massive, result-changing fraud in the recent Presidential contest, though. Such charges would imply that the noble and principled Senator Kerry, with his 10,000 lawyers in tow, hit the canvas with Sonny Liston-like alacrity.
Investigating election fraud is an important exercise for democracy in every election, not just this one. I think Democrats should be a bit leery of charging massive, result-changing fraud in the recent Presidential contest, though. Such charges would imply that the noble and principled Senator Kerry, with his 10,000 lawyers in tow, hit the canvas with Sonny Liston-like alacrity.
Whoa, Fielding. Too early in the day for "Laverne & Shirley" references!
Hmmm, two ladies livin' together...
Whoa, Fielding. Too early in the day for "Laverne & Shirley" references!
Hmmm, two ladies livin' together...
New thread.
New thread.
I guess the real problem here is that the "moral issues" comes down to killing fetuses and dudes fucking.
Until the Demo's can prove the morality of killing said fetuses and dude's kissing on the City Hall steps in San Fran, they're going to be tagged immoral.
The above ref'ed 1996 poll had 69% of repubs caring about morals, and only 15% percent of dems caring about morals.
so, you'all better get about redefining moral but quick. Because the numbers indicate that you don't care about "morals."
as given to you by the most immoral terror of all, The Roman Catholic Church! Who did kill Jesus anyway? was it God, saving us from our sins, or was it the Jews? u-pick your scripture!
I'd skip it though, and focus on energy independence, a fair tax code,
and less government.
Best of Luck!
I guess the real problem here is that the "moral issues" comes down to killing fetuses and dudes fucking.
Until the Demo's can prove the morality of killing said fetuses and dude's kissing on the City Hall steps in San Fran, they're going to be tagged immoral.
The above ref'ed 1996 poll had 69% of repubs caring about morals, and only 15% percent of dems caring about morals.
so, you'all better get about redefining moral but quick. Because the numbers indicate that you don't care about "morals."
as given to you by the most immoral terror of all, The Roman Catholic Church! Who did kill Jesus anyway? was it God, saving us from our sins, or was it the Jews? u-pick your scripture!
I'd skip it though, and focus on energy independence, a fair tax code,
and less government.
Best of Luck!
Hmmm, two ladies livin' together...
...one of whom wears a big ol' "L" on her sweaters...
Hmmm, two ladies livin' together...
...one of whom wears a big ol' "L" on her sweaters...
Bush and Rove are exploiting the outrage and ginning it up at every opportunity. They have all the help they could want from the media. I just don't know how to counter that except by being louder and more numerous.--Tena
The problem is that when we have a one-party government, the only watchdog left is the media. If the media are nothing more than lap-dog corporatists, in bed with the one-party state, we are truly effed.
A democracy absolutely depends on its media when on party is so powerful.
No one seems to understand the danger. Where are the investigative reporters? Who in the media are running stories on blackbox voting?
I hate to sound so negative, but when the media are handmaidens to those in power, there is very, very little hope.
Bush and Rove are exploiting the outrage and ginning it up at every opportunity. They have all the help they could want from the media. I just don't know how to counter that except by being louder and more numerous.--Tena
The problem is that when we have a one-party government, the only watchdog left is the media. If the media are nothing more than lap-dog corporatists, in bed with the one-party state, we are truly effed.
A democracy absolutely depends on its media when on party is so powerful.
No one seems to understand the danger. Where are the investigative reporters? Who in the media are running stories on blackbox voting?
I hate to sound so negative, but when the media are handmaidens to those in power, there is very, very little hope.
You made me think of the passage in Carlin's "Seven Dirty Words" where he substitutes the word "fuck" for the word "kill."
"Alright Sheriff, we're gonna fuck ya now.. and we're gonna fuck ya slow."
You made me think of the passage in Carlin's "Seven Dirty Words" where he substitutes the word "fuck" for the word "kill."
"Alright Sheriff, we're gonna fuck ya now.. and we're gonna fuck ya slow."
I love Stellaluna. And I consider it an honor to be called "moonbat" by Squeaky Johnson's clones.
They are utter fuckwits, the right wing keyboard patrol. And don't think I'm saying we have to make nice with our enemies. I'm not. It's just that we have to be sure who exactly our enemies are before we go to war.
We've bitched about Bush invading the wrong country and killing innocent people. In this country, we need to know who exactly it is that we attack before we do attack.
I love Stellaluna. And I consider it an honor to be called "moonbat" by Squeaky Johnson's clones.
They are utter fuckwits, the right wing keyboard patrol. And don't think I'm saying we have to make nice with our enemies. I'm not. It's just that we have to be sure who exactly our enemies are before we go to war.
We've bitched about Bush invading the wrong country and killing innocent people. In this country, we need to know who exactly it is that we attack before we do attack.
It is long past time to begin referring to Falwell, Dobson, Reed, et.al as radical American clerics consistently, over and over and over whenever their names are mentioned.
Vinnie | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 12:27 pm
Vinnie, whilst I agree wholeheartedly, you're beard will grow long and white as mine before ANY mainstream US publication or EMO (electronic media outlet) makes such a reference. Too inflammatory. There'd be riots in the streets outside their offices, editors tarred and feathered, towers toppled, etc... It just won't happen...
It is long past time to begin referring to Falwell, Dobson, Reed, et.al as radical American clerics consistently, over and over and over whenever their names are mentioned.
Vinnie | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 12:27 pm
Vinnie, whilst I agree wholeheartedly, you're beard will grow long and white as mine before ANY mainstream US publication or EMO (electronic media outlet) makes such a reference. Too inflammatory. There'd be riots in the streets outside their offices, editors tarred and feathered, towers toppled, etc... It just won't happen...
dammit Blakno1, you beat me to it
DAMN YOU!!! :-p
dammit Blakno1, you beat me to it
DAMN YOU!!! :-p
Tena:
Here I must agree with Richelieu, at least in principle: Kill them all and let their God sort 'em out...
Tena:
Here I must agree with Richelieu, at least in principle: Kill them all and let their God sort 'em out...
I hate to sound so negative, but when the media are handmaidens to those in power, there is very, very little hope.
Shaw Kenawe | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 12:32 pm
Time for the daily reminder, I see: In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media...
I hate to sound so negative, but when the media are handmaidens to those in power, there is very, very little hope.
Shaw Kenawe | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 12:32 pm
Time for the daily reminder, I see: In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media...
Speaking of "moral values," a friend just posted this on a Yahoo News message board:
The GOP is hiding from its un-Christian war in Iraq by keeping gay marriage, a non-issue, in the news. Time to open that Bible again folks. Murder, torture, rape, bombing, stealing-- in fact everything the GOP is promoting in Operation Blood For Oil in Iraq-- are all un-Christian.
Could it be that the GOP realizes that 70% of Americans now state that Operation Blood For Oil was a huge GOP mistake? Keep talking about gays, my neighbor's 19-year old came home in time for Thanksgiving. He was in a body bag.
Speaking of "moral values," a friend just posted this on a Yahoo News message board:
The GOP is hiding from its un-Christian war in Iraq by keeping gay marriage, a non-issue, in the news. Time to open that Bible again folks. Murder, torture, rape, bombing, stealing-- in fact everything the GOP is promoting in Operation Blood For Oil in Iraq-- are all un-Christian.
Could it be that the GOP realizes that 70% of Americans now state that Operation Blood For Oil was a huge GOP mistake? Keep talking about gays, my neighbor's 19-year old came home in time for Thanksgiving. He was in a body bag.
How to piss off a right-wing theocrat:
Ask them about Adam & Eve: "Were they the first two humans?"
Wingnut answer: "Yes."
Me: "OK, so they had two sons- what were their names?"
Wingnut answer: "Cain and Abel."
Me:"Right. So according to the Bible, Cain and Abel go out into the world and marry and have children."
Wingnut: "Yes. That's what the Bible tells us."
Me: "Where did the women come from?"
Wingnut: "'Scuse me?"
Me: "I asked where did the women come from if Adam and Eve were the first humans? Did Adam & Eve have daughters that were overlooked and the sons had an incestuous relationship with them? Or was there maybe something oedipal going on? Or were Adam & Eve not actually the only and first humans?"
Wingnut: (Sound of head exploding)
I love that. It works EVERY time, and they still haven't figured out how to counter that. Try it.
How to piss off a right-wing theocrat:
Ask them about Adam & Eve: "Were they the first two humans?"
Wingnut answer: "Yes."
Me: "OK, so they had two sons- what were their names?"
Wingnut answer: "Cain and Abel."
Me:"Right. So according to the Bible, Cain and Abel go out into the world and marry and have children."
Wingnut: "Yes. That's what the Bible tells us."
Me: "Where did the women come from?"
Wingnut: "'Scuse me?"
Me: "I asked where did the women come from if Adam and Eve were the first humans? Did Adam & Eve have daughters that were overlooked and the sons had an incestuous relationship with them? Or was there maybe something oedipal going on? Or were Adam & Eve not actually the only and first humans?"
Wingnut: (Sound of head exploding)
I love that. It works EVERY time, and they still haven't figured out how to counter that. Try it.
Oh dear. Hectate seems to have gone off her meds. When did Dobson ever say anything "racist"?
Oh dear. Hectate seems to have gone off her meds. When did Dobson ever say anything "racist"?
Heh heh...
Heh heh...
Cindy L--
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzz...
Cindy L--
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzz...
Remember kids - every day is "Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks" Day...
Remember kids - every day is "Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks" Day...
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
As far as I'm concerned, everything that happens in the next 4 years is their fault. I'm not about to molly-coddle these people.
Unfortunately, I happen to know several people who voted for bush with their eyes wide open.
And I will hold them accountable for everything that happens.
I wish that everyone who's a dem who lives in a so-called red state would get over their hurt feelings. No one is talking about you personally.
Everyone here knows that there are liberal and progressive people in the "red" states.
No one thinks you're anything like the willfully dense people who voted for chimpy.
As for Texas, maybe Dallas did only go for chimpy by a percent or two. Go look at the results state wide and tell me it doesn't give you the chills. Most of the rural counties went for bush by as much as 70-80%.
That's a whole lot of people. I'm not willing to let them off the hook.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
As far as I'm concerned, everything that happens in the next 4 years is their fault. I'm not about to molly-coddle these people.
Unfortunately, I happen to know several people who voted for bush with their eyes wide open.
And I will hold them accountable for everything that happens.
I wish that everyone who's a dem who lives in a so-called red state would get over their hurt feelings. No one is talking about you personally.
Everyone here knows that there are liberal and progressive people in the "red" states.
No one thinks you're anything like the willfully dense people who voted for chimpy.
As for Texas, maybe Dallas did only go for chimpy by a percent or two. Go look at the results state wide and tell me it doesn't give you the chills. Most of the rural counties went for bush by as much as 70-80%.
That's a whole lot of people. I'm not willing to let them off the hook.
Shaw - Ok, then is it your position that it is hopeless?
I mean, I understand what you are saying, but it doesn't leave us anything to work with.
I maintain that the media follows the money. The more noise we make, the more worried the media will get that they are going to lose our money.
Shaw - Ok, then is it your position that it is hopeless?
I mean, I understand what you are saying, but it doesn't leave us anything to work with.
I maintain that the media follows the money. The more noise we make, the more worried the media will get that they are going to lose our money.
Several years ago, some fundi idjit a few counties over tried to get her county to pass a law banning a nudist colony. The nudists weren't running down main street buck naked, they weren't recruiting locals to become nudist, and even the camp's sign and advertising were discreet. But this woman just worked herself into complete hysterics because some people were being nekked and she felt she had the right to tell them how they should live.
Several years ago, some fundi idjit a few counties over tried to get her county to pass a law banning a nudist colony. The nudists weren't running down main street buck naked, they weren't recruiting locals to become nudist, and even the camp's sign and advertising were discreet. But this woman just worked herself into complete hysterics because some people were being nekked and she felt she had the right to tell them how they should live.
sekmet, you're not in Rockford, MI, are you? I seem to remember a similar story from Rockford.
sekmet, you're not in Rockford, MI, are you? I seem to remember a similar story from Rockford.
I voted Bush, because the Democrats were out of control in their anti-war/ anti-America smear campaign. And Kerry is a loser. But if Christian nutcases start coming up with nutty extreme policies, I'll vote Democrat next time. The politicians might think they have a mandate, but it's me giving it to them.
OT
Quentin Tarantino's next movie project has been leaked
to the internet
I voted Bush, because the Democrats were out of control in their anti-war/ anti-America smear campaign. And Kerry is a loser. But if Christian nutcases start coming up with nutty extreme policies, I'll vote Democrat next time. The politicians might think they have a mandate, but it's me giving it to them.
OT
Quentin Tarantino's next movie project has been leaked
to the internet
fourlegsgood - It is not a matter of hurt feelings, just like I told GWPDA. It is a matter of truth.
One on one - have at it. If you know that someone is an idiot - fine. But my point is that this idea that the country is clearly divided is just flat not born out by the evidence.
I'm not dealing in emotion here. I'm dealing with the fucking facts. I keep trying to get that across and somehow it gets lost.
fourlegsgood - It is not a matter of hurt feelings, just like I told GWPDA. It is a matter of truth.
One on one - have at it. If you know that someone is an idiot - fine. But my point is that this idea that the country is clearly divided is just flat not born out by the evidence.
I'm not dealing in emotion here. I'm dealing with the fucking facts. I keep trying to get that across and somehow it gets lost.
"You will do me the justice to remember, that I have always strenuously supported the Right of every Man to his own opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies to another this right, makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it."
-Thomas Paine (the anti-fascist)
"You will do me the justice to remember, that I have always strenuously supported the Right of every Man to his own opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies to another this right, makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it."
-Thomas Paine (the anti-fascist)
I voted Bush, because the Democrats were out of control in their anti-war..
See what I mean?
I voted Bush, because the Democrats were out of control in their anti-war..
See what I mean?
No, I don't live in Michigan. I am thinking of a story that happened over a decade ago and as memory fails it may have been Michigan or another midwestern state. I put "nudist colony banned" in a search engine but it tends to bring up some rather weird sites and I didn't want to go there. How did the Michigan story end?
No, I don't live in Michigan. I am thinking of a story that happened over a decade ago and as memory fails it may have been Michigan or another midwestern state. I put "nudist colony banned" in a search engine but it tends to bring up some rather weird sites and I didn't want to go there. How did the Michigan story end?
Shaw - Ok, then is it your position that it is hopeless?
I'd characterize things as bleak, but not hopeless.
I think it'll take a while for a cultural shift to the left, but I believe it will happen.
I also believe there are more of us than there are "them." But I also believe we're not willing to be as noisy as they are. We're not as willing to take risks as they are.
I mean why didn't the Dems, during the convention, blast and bash Bush and all of his egregious mistakes? We had a chance to be really, really noisy then and instead we came off looking like complacent wimps instead of the outraged challengers.
Shaw - Ok, then is it your position that it is hopeless?
I'd characterize things as bleak, but not hopeless.
I think it'll take a while for a cultural shift to the left, but I believe it will happen.
I also believe there are more of us than there are "them." But I also believe we're not willing to be as noisy as they are. We're not as willing to take risks as they are.
I mean why didn't the Dems, during the convention, blast and bash Bush and all of his egregious mistakes? We had a chance to be really, really noisy then and instead we came off looking like complacent wimps instead of the outraged challengers.
Free Willy:
You're a fucking douche. A giant fucking douche. Apparently, you don't care that massive debt is being piled up for you and your children in the name of dear leaders idiotic foray into Iraq. You also don't seem to care that the constitution that men fought and died for so that YOU could have the freedom to say what you thought is being eroded.
"I voted Bush, because the Democrats were out of control in their anti-war/ anti-America smear campaign"
God, what a fucking douche. Please leave here and never return, you mindless piece of shit. I hope you die painfully and slowly.
Oh, and thanks so much for the Tarantino insight you pathetic dipshit. Now go away and let the grown ups figure out how to clean up the giant mess you made.
Free Willy:
You're a fucking douche. A giant fucking douche. Apparently, you don't care that massive debt is being piled up for you and your children in the name of dear leaders idiotic foray into Iraq. You also don't seem to care that the constitution that men fought and died for so that YOU could have the freedom to say what you thought is being eroded.
"I voted Bush, because the Democrats were out of control in their anti-war/ anti-America smear campaign"
God, what a fucking douche. Please leave here and never return, you mindless piece of shit. I hope you die painfully and slowly.
Oh, and thanks so much for the Tarantino insight you pathetic dipshit. Now go away and let the grown ups figure out how to clean up the giant mess you made.
Sekmet, I don't remember how the Michigan story ended (sorry to say). Must have been alright, because the story faded from my memory.
Sekmet, I don't remember how the Michigan story ended (sorry to say). Must have been alright, because the story faded from my memory.
Tena:
Once, when the majority of local media were really local, you might have been right: they'd follow the money.
Today the money trail leads through Washington, and the FCC. Fewer than 10 corporations control more than 75% of ALL media: LINK HERE
Tena:
Once, when the majority of local media were really local, you might have been right: they'd follow the money.
Today the money trail leads through Washington, and the FCC. Fewer than 10 corporations control more than 75% of ALL media: LINK HERE
Pollen Boy,
If Free Willy substitutes "fuck" instead of "die" as Carlin suggested, then your hope would be that FW would fuck painfully and slowly.
A fate worse than death.
Pollen Boy,
If Free Willy substitutes "fuck" instead of "die" as Carlin suggested, then your hope would be that FW would fuck painfully and slowly.
A fate worse than death.
Shaw - I agree that it won't happen overnight, but I also don't think it is that bleak. I don't think that many people voted for Bush and I don't think there is any kind of a mandate for the Repugs.
But I don't know that for certain and I am not going to tell you that you are wrong. However, I think this post and others are clearly indicating that things are not as the Repugs and their lapdogs in the media are saying they are.
Shaw - I agree that it won't happen overnight, but I also don't think it is that bleak. I don't think that many people voted for Bush and I don't think there is any kind of a mandate for the Repugs.
But I don't know that for certain and I am not going to tell you that you are wrong. However, I think this post and others are clearly indicating that things are not as the Repugs and their lapdogs in the media are saying they are.
The nudists weren't running down main street buck naked, they weren't recruiting locals to become nudist, and even the camp's sign and advertising were discreet. But this woman just worked herself into complete hysterics because some people were being nekked and she felt she had the right to tell them how they should live
Sekmet, I saw "Kinsey" this weekend, and highly recommend it-we are fighting the same battles today.
The nudists weren't running down main street buck naked, they weren't recruiting locals to become nudist, and even the camp's sign and advertising were discreet. But this woman just worked herself into complete hysterics because some people were being nekked and she felt she had the right to tell them how they should live
Sekmet, I saw "Kinsey" this weekend, and highly recommend it-we are fighting the same battles today.
How can anyone run a "smear campaign" against a war?
What could possibly be a more effective "smear" against a war than the very facts of the war itself?
How can anyone run a "smear campaign" against a war?
What could possibly be a more effective "smear" against a war than the very facts of the war itself?
They have been asking this poorly worded, stupid question in polls since 1996?
They have been asking this poorly worded, stupid question in polls since 1996?
I love that. It works EVERY time, and they still haven't figured out how to counter that. Try it.
Pollen Boy
That's because there is no counter argument. It is patently stupid to believe that the human race came from a gene pool of two people, I realized this at the age of ten and promptly stopped attending church. My parents were enlightened enough to let me make my own decisions about God and religion, so when I told them I didn't believe in God the bible or any of it because the premises for religion are fundamentally flawed, they accepted it.
I love that. It works EVERY time, and they still haven't figured out how to counter that. Try it.
Pollen Boy
That's because there is no counter argument. It is patently stupid to believe that the human race came from a gene pool of two people, I realized this at the age of ten and promptly stopped attending church. My parents were enlightened enough to let me make my own decisions about God and religion, so when I told them I didn't believe in God the bible or any of it because the premises for religion are fundamentally flawed, they accepted it.
Oh, and Willy?
Yeah,you'll probably vote democratic next time. If there IS a next time, asswipe.
Oh, and Willy?
Yeah,you'll probably vote democratic next time. If there IS a next time, asswipe.
Vicki Stein, thanks. I always love a good story about Puritans running amuck.
As for cleaning up after Bush's mess, I really miss the adults being in charge. Bush and his base remind me of overgrown teenagers who are always running off and getting into trouble and then expecting the adults to clean up after them, pay for the damage, and bribe the officials. And all the while, they refuse to grow up and change the behavior that is causing them to get in the mess in the first place. Bush is the dumb jarhead mook, the embarrassing family member who screws up every time and Daddy and Mommy send lawyers, guns, and money to once more fix the damage. Poppy should have put the boy in rehab rather than prop up his silly ass for years because being in rehab is somehow not "respectable".
Vicki Stein, thanks. I always love a good story about Puritans running amuck.
As for cleaning up after Bush's mess, I really miss the adults being in charge. Bush and his base remind me of overgrown teenagers who are always running off and getting into trouble and then expecting the adults to clean up after them, pay for the damage, and bribe the officials. And all the while, they refuse to grow up and change the behavior that is causing them to get in the mess in the first place. Bush is the dumb jarhead mook, the embarrassing family member who screws up every time and Daddy and Mommy send lawyers, guns, and money to once more fix the damage. Poppy should have put the boy in rehab rather than prop up his silly ass for years because being in rehab is somehow not "respectable".
Pretty sure my "nougat" is working, but I still just have to say-
da trufe is rob is fuckin HI-larious. Feeding trolls- he's a lesser one, I mean he seems "only" batshit crazy to me- can be fun to watch.
He's like crack-addicted, extroverted Dennis Miller, riffing on a street corner to anyone in earshot. Wiping the white gummy paste from his lips with a dirty wool sock he's using as a glove.
Good times, good times.
Pretty sure my "nougat" is working, but I still just have to say-
da trufe is rob is fuckin HI-larious. Feeding trolls- he's a lesser one, I mean he seems "only" batshit crazy to me- can be fun to watch.
He's like crack-addicted, extroverted Dennis Miller, riffing on a street corner to anyone in earshot. Wiping the white gummy paste from his lips with a dirty wool sock he's using as a glove.
Good times, good times.
The real problems Democrats have in my opinion is that Republicans are stubborn sons of bitches. The very nature of the word "conservative" means that they are less likely to identify with new ideas or different viewpoints. They'll never admit to being wrong, and I think that's even more true after this very emotional election. The divisive tactics used by the Repukes are very effective and will be extremely difficult to reverse.
I mean, how much more evidence do you need that George W. Bush is a horrible president? Yet they re-elected him. Now they're going to abuse the system even more-- they'll make sure voting systems are even more in their favor and they'll gerrymander the fuck out of every district they can get their little hooves on.
It's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better.
The real problems Democrats have in my opinion is that Republicans are stubborn sons of bitches. The very nature of the word "conservative" means that they are less likely to identify with new ideas or different viewpoints. They'll never admit to being wrong, and I think that's even more true after this very emotional election. The divisive tactics used by the Repukes are very effective and will be extremely difficult to reverse.
I mean, how much more evidence do you need that George W. Bush is a horrible president? Yet they re-elected him. Now they're going to abuse the system even more-- they'll make sure voting systems are even more in their favor and they'll gerrymander the fuck out of every district they can get their little hooves on.
It's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better.
krsaz, to quote Paine again:
"The more unnatural anything is, the more it is capable of becoming the object of dismal admiration."
If it was rational it wouldn't take a leap of faith.
Peace.
krsaz, to quote Paine again:
"The more unnatural anything is, the more it is capable of becoming the object of dismal admiration."
If it was rational it wouldn't take a leap of faith.
Peace.
I am an avid watcher of "news" programs on televsion (and more). In fact the television is on all day in my house to "news" programs.
It seems untrue and unfair and inaccurate to claim that the democrats didn't frame their campaign or whatever. The truth is that the media wouldn't let the Dems on the bloody tube. It wasn't until the week before the debates that I finally was able to see a complete speech by Kerry for the first time instead of sound bites that were distorted and mischaracterized.
The dems had a wonderful message of healthcare, prescription drugs for the elderly, continued social security, protection of the environment and labor rights, jobs, investment in non oil related technology, a strong military and on and on.
If the message is distorted and the people are not allowed to hear it and if the rotten media just repeats the lies from the lying liars over and over again, I don't know why we blame the dems. They are a little bit too polite for my taste but in the world of psychoanalysis I don't think they are the abused wife at all. I might however consider that the repugnants may have the disease of addiction to power, money, violence, dishonesty, cruelty, and in our two top lovely leaders--perhaps alcoholism and messianic megalomania.
I am an avid watcher of "news" programs on televsion (and more). In fact the television is on all day in my house to "news" programs.
It seems untrue and unfair and inaccurate to claim that the democrats didn't frame their campaign or whatever. The truth is that the media wouldn't let the Dems on the bloody tube. It wasn't until the week before the debates that I finally was able to see a complete speech by Kerry for the first time instead of sound bites that were distorted and mischaracterized.
The dems had a wonderful message of healthcare, prescription drugs for the elderly, continued social security, protection of the environment and labor rights, jobs, investment in non oil related technology, a strong military and on and on.
If the message is distorted and the people are not allowed to hear it and if the rotten media just repeats the lies from the lying liars over and over again, I don't know why we blame the dems. They are a little bit too polite for my taste but in the world of psychoanalysis I don't think they are the abused wife at all. I might however consider that the repugnants may have the disease of addiction to power, money, violence, dishonesty, cruelty, and in our two top lovely leaders--perhaps alcoholism and messianic megalomania.
Sekmet,
I tried to google the nudist incident here in Michigan, but, since I'm at work, all of the sites are coming up as "blocked" by Websense. Go figure.
Damn work won't let me research nudity!
Sekmet,
I tried to google the nudist incident here in Michigan, but, since I'm at work, all of the sites are coming up as "blocked" by Websense. Go figure.
Damn work won't let me research nudity!
Seraphiel - "What could possibly be a more effective "smear" against a war than the very facts of the war itself?"
Good point and I have said before that if people just get everything from the media, then most must believe that about 6 Iraqi kids have been injured so far and at least 3 of them have been brought here to be fixed.
I don't know why we don't make more out of the dead children of Iraq. It's terrible to use such tragedy, but the point is stopping any more of the tragedy.
They use bloody fetuses, but won't let us talk about real children being killed and maimed and orphaned by this war.
Seraphiel - "What could possibly be a more effective "smear" against a war than the very facts of the war itself?"
Good point and I have said before that if people just get everything from the media, then most must believe that about 6 Iraqi kids have been injured so far and at least 3 of them have been brought here to be fixed.
I don't know why we don't make more out of the dead children of Iraq. It's terrible to use such tragedy, but the point is stopping any more of the tragedy.
They use bloody fetuses, but won't let us talk about real children being killed and maimed and orphaned by this war.
Cass - Amen.
Kerry ran a good campaign. People cared; voter turnout was a thing of beauty. It was ugliness incarnate that some of them were not allowed to vote.
The media and the voting machines are our two biggest problems.
Cass - Amen.
Kerry ran a good campaign. People cared; voter turnout was a thing of beauty. It was ugliness incarnate that some of them were not allowed to vote.
The media and the voting machines are our two biggest problems.
I voted Bush, because the Democrats were out of control in their anti-war/ anti-America smear campaign - Free Willy
I have heard this cannard before. I am not sure how people get the idea that the Dems. are uniformly anti-war (people complain, for example, that Kerry changed his position on the war because he was a political opportunist who realized the Dems. were anti-war ... never mind that Kerry's position was more consistent than George "Causus Bellii of the Week" Bush's ... and never mind that perhaps Kerry voted for the war because back then, if you opposed putting our troops in harm's way, you would be tarred and feathered as an enemy of God, Mother and Apple Pie -- how come nobody ... not even Michael Moore, is adaquate addressing the yellow journalism that bolstered the case for war?) or that anti-going to war in Iraq is un-American?
'Course it doesn't help that even smart people in red-state-land are completely unwilling to call things as they are. I was talking a few weeks ago with a conservative who happens to be a college professor in a red state. He was talking ad naseum about how the left wing hates America. By way of example, he talked about how liberals don't merely criticize the war in Iraq they use anti-American language in talking about our "invasion" and "occupation" of Iraq -- he tried to argue that, since we were deposing a tyrant, we didn't really "invade" and since there is now an Iraqi government, we are not occupying Iraq.
I pointed out to him the definition of "invade" and that even when my uncle was in the army stationed in Germany in the 1970s they still called it an "occupation" force.
He conceeded the point to me. But why did he think he had a valid point to begin with?
Part of the problem is the media: anyone who points out the Emperor has no clothes, instead of being hailed as a hero for saving the Empire from the plots of greedy tailors, is treated as a traitor. There is something very un-democratic about this attitude - without constructive criticism and vigourous debate to steer us clear of the naked Emperors and their evil tailors, will we be left with a stream of naked Emperors and decline into a laughingstock Banana Republic?
I voted Bush, because the Democrats were out of control in their anti-war/ anti-America smear campaign - Free Willy
I have heard this cannard before. I am not sure how people get the idea that the Dems. are uniformly anti-war (people complain, for example, that Kerry changed his position on the war because he was a political opportunist who realized the Dems. were anti-war ... never mind that Kerry's position was more consistent than George "Causus Bellii of the Week" Bush's ... and never mind that perhaps Kerry voted for the war because back then, if you opposed putting our troops in harm's way, you would be tarred and feathered as an enemy of God, Mother and Apple Pie -- how come nobody ... not even Michael Moore, is adaquate addressing the yellow journalism that bolstered the case for war?) or that anti-going to war in Iraq is un-American?
'Course it doesn't help that even smart people in red-state-land are completely unwilling to call things as they are. I was talking a few weeks ago with a conservative who happens to be a college professor in a red state. He was talking ad naseum about how the left wing hates America. By way of example, he talked about how liberals don't merely criticize the war in Iraq they use anti-American language in talking about our "invasion" and "occupation" of Iraq -- he tried to argue that, since we were deposing a tyrant, we didn't really "invade" and since there is now an Iraqi government, we are not occupying Iraq.
I pointed out to him the definition of "invade" and that even when my uncle was in the army stationed in Germany in the 1970s they still called it an "occupation" force.
He conceeded the point to me. But why did he think he had a valid point to begin with?
Part of the problem is the media: anyone who points out the Emperor has no clothes, instead of being hailed as a hero for saving the Empire from the plots of greedy tailors, is treated as a traitor. There is something very un-democratic about this attitude - without constructive criticism and vigourous debate to steer us clear of the naked Emperors and their evil tailors, will we be left with a stream of naked Emperors and decline into a laughingstock Banana Republic?
Tena,
I'm with you. Kerry was a good candidate and he ran a good campaign. I miss the campaign, though. I miss the hope.
Tena,
I'm with you. Kerry was a good candidate and he ran a good campaign. I miss the campaign, though. I miss the hope.
It is patently stupid to believe that the human race came from a gene pool of two people - krsaz
Step into a WalMart sometime. Look at the shoppers - especially the regular crowd (the ones who seem to actually be able to find stuff in that maze of a store). You might feel differently about the size of the gene pool from which the human race came after your experience.
It is patently stupid to believe that the human race came from a gene pool of two people - krsaz
Step into a WalMart sometime. Look at the shoppers - especially the regular crowd (the ones who seem to actually be able to find stuff in that maze of a store). You might feel differently about the size of the gene pool from which the human race came after your experience.
too bad rich wrote the great article before the WaPost ran the article about Alabamans voting to keep the language of their constitution outlining segregated schools.
Funny how the party of values is also the party of our greatest national disgraces.
too bad rich wrote the great article before the WaPost ran the article about Alabamans voting to keep the language of their constitution outlining segregated schools.
Funny how the party of values is also the party of our greatest national disgraces.
This is the very reason I do not agree with democrats anymore. They look at a poll and mold themselves to what a poll numbers say, why not invest time IN a platform and stick with it. Instead of licking your finger and putting up to the wind to see what way to lean.
Another words, grow a fucking backbone and stand for something on it's merits.
This is the very reason I do not agree with democrats anymore. They look at a poll and mold themselves to what a poll numbers say, why not invest time IN a platform and stick with it. Instead of licking your finger and putting up to the wind to see what way to lean.
Another words, grow a fucking backbone and stand for something on it's merits.
Vicki, I guess it's "disreputable". It does bring up some rather weird sites on the net. But then it's in the mind of the beholder. One of my favorite banned book stories is where a man demanded that a book called MAKING IT WITH MADEMOISELLE be banned from his public library. It turned out to be a book of craft projects published by Mademoiselle Magazine.
Vicki, I guess it's "disreputable". It does bring up some rather weird sites on the net. But then it's in the mind of the beholder. One of my favorite banned book stories is where a man demanded that a book called MAKING IT WITH MADEMOISELLE be banned from his public library. It turned out to be a book of craft projects published by Mademoiselle Magazine.
Konopelli:
You have misattributed (and misstated) the quote "Kill them all..." This quote has been attributed to Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux and spiritual leader of the Albigensian Crusade. When the Catholics in Beziers refused to give up the Cathars the Albigensians had been ordered to "purge," they asked the Abbott what to do and the told them: "Kill them all. God will know his own."
And the "blizzard" is over. This town kills me. Half an inch of snow and people lose their minds.
Konopelli:
You have misattributed (and misstated) the quote "Kill them all..." This quote has been attributed to Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux and spiritual leader of the Albigensian Crusade. When the Catholics in Beziers refused to give up the Cathars the Albigensians had been ordered to "purge," they asked the Abbott what to do and the told them: "Kill them all. God will know his own."
And the "blizzard" is over. This town kills me. Half an inch of snow and people lose their minds.
This is the very reason I do not agree with democrats anymore. They look at a poll and mold themselves to what a poll numbers say, why not invest time IN a platform and stick with it. Instead of licking your finger and putting up to the wind to see what way to lean.
I am not sure the degree to which the premise of this post is even true or merely a matter of media spin. Or even if the premise is true, whether the problem is not whether we Dems. lack ideas or whether whenever we do take a stand, we get tarred and feathered so much that our "leadership" has given up. Moreover, I find it rather odd how we Dems. can be both pandering to the polls and outside of the mainstream - which is it trolls? To turn around the "if the Dems. are not able to stand up to our dirty tricks how can they run the country" rhetoric of the Rethugs, 'if the Rethugs cannot even figure out whether we Dems. pander to the polls or are outside of the mainstream, how can they run the country'?
In any case, I'll leave the debate on whether we Dems. need a stronger platform and why we are so weak, if we are, to others.
What I will say is that, as much opposed as I am to a Pero{t/n} style poll-ocracy and as much as I fear a tyranny of the majority and as much as I agree with Ibsen provided there is a change in article so the quote is "a minority is always right" (after all, how could everyone get it exacly right much of the time) --- I would much rather have poll-ocracy than to vote for the snake-oil the Rethugs are selling.
Still, we Dems. do need to learn from the Rethugs: no matter how much the Heathers tell us otherwise, we do not need to move our views more to the mainstream ... this will only loose us votes as we will be seen as pandering ... we need to do what the Rethugs do and move the mainstream toward our platform!
This is the very reason I do not agree with democrats anymore. They look at a poll and mold themselves to what a poll numbers say, why not invest time IN a platform and stick with it. Instead of licking your finger and putting up to the wind to see what way to lean.
I am not sure the degree to which the premise of this post is even true or merely a matter of media spin. Or even if the premise is true, whether the problem is not whether we Dems. lack ideas or whether whenever we do take a stand, we get tarred and feathered so much that our "leadership" has given up. Moreover, I find it rather odd how we Dems. can be both pandering to the polls and outside of the mainstream - which is it trolls? To turn around the "if the Dems. are not able to stand up to our dirty tricks how can they run the country" rhetoric of the Rethugs, 'if the Rethugs cannot even figure out whether we Dems. pander to the polls or are outside of the mainstream, how can they run the country'?
In any case, I'll leave the debate on whether we Dems. need a stronger platform and why we are so weak, if we are, to others.
What I will say is that, as much opposed as I am to a Pero{t/n} style poll-ocracy and as much as I fear a tyranny of the majority and as much as I agree with Ibsen provided there is a change in article so the quote is "a minority is always right" (after all, how could everyone get it exacly right much of the time) --- I would much rather have poll-ocracy than to vote for the snake-oil the Rethugs are selling.
Still, we Dems. do need to learn from the Rethugs: no matter how much the Heathers tell us otherwise, we do not need to move our views more to the mainstream ... this will only loose us votes as we will be seen as pandering ... we need to do what the Rethugs do and move the mainstream toward our platform!
One of my favorite banned book stories is where a man demanded that a book called MAKING IT WITH MADEMOISELLE be banned from his public library. It turned out to be a book of craft projects published by Mademoiselle Magazine. - sekmet
Why does the book-banning crowd remind me of Bevis and Butthead? ("you said 'making it' ... hunh hunh, hunh hunh")
One of my favorite banned book stories is where a man demanded that a book called MAKING IT WITH MADEMOISELLE be banned from his public library. It turned out to be a book of craft projects published by Mademoiselle Magazine. - sekmet
Why does the book-banning crowd remind me of Bevis and Butthead? ("you said 'making it' ... hunh hunh, hunh hunh")
Something similar happened in Dawsonville GA (known as home to Nascar driver Bill Elliott) when Fundies tried to shut down Hidden Valley Nudist resort; They failed, and last year Hidden Valley hosted the local Business assoc. lunch, with a photo in the Dawsonville rag of the meeting, taken from behind, with a mix of clothed and non-clothed folk. I once did a craft show they hosted, and it was an OK experience.
"A poem on Religion
IN the summer,I'm a nudist;
in the winter, I'm a buddhist."
--Joe Gould
Something similar happened in Dawsonville GA (known as home to Nascar driver Bill Elliott) when Fundies tried to shut down Hidden Valley Nudist resort; They failed, and last year Hidden Valley hosted the local Business assoc. lunch, with a photo in the Dawsonville rag of the meeting, taken from behind, with a mix of clothed and non-clothed folk. I once did a craft show they hosted, and it was an OK experience.
"A poem on Religion
IN the summer,I'm a nudist;
in the winter, I'm a buddhist."
--Joe Gould
Oops--I should have been clearer: it was the Albigensian Crusaders who asked the Abbott what to do, not the Catholics of Beziers.
Oops--I should have been clearer: it was the Albigensian Crusaders who asked the Abbott what to do, not the Catholics of Beziers.
And the "blizzard" is over. This town kills me. Half an inch of snow and people lose their minds.
mothra | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 1:49 pm
I said "small blizzard", iirc...
Your complaint about the drivers here is on point. Burque's the town to tough to signal...it's exacerbated by the weather...
That's cuz we have so many people here who've never driven in snow, nor lived at altitude before moving here. You think Albuquerque's bad? Then stay out of Okie City or Dallas when it snows...
When I was a kid (the '60s), we had real snow here, even in Albuquerque. I lived north of Santa Fe, and we expected to be snowed in at leaszt once each winter...
And the "blizzard" is over. This town kills me. Half an inch of snow and people lose their minds.
mothra | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 1:49 pm
I said "small blizzard", iirc...
Your complaint about the drivers here is on point. Burque's the town to tough to signal...it's exacerbated by the weather...
That's cuz we have so many people here who've never driven in snow, nor lived at altitude before moving here. You think Albuquerque's bad? Then stay out of Okie City or Dallas when it snows...
When I was a kid (the '60s), we had real snow here, even in Albuquerque. I lived north of Santa Fe, and we expected to be snowed in at leaszt once each winter...
Konopelli, dude. It wasn't even a small blizzard. It was snowing. Yeah, I remember Albq. in the 60's and that there was more snow back in the good old days. Since I didn't drive, I didn't notice the quality of snow driving back then. But I have always wondered what happens to all the people who move here from other locations which DO have weather--and there are more of them than natives. Do they forget all their weather-driving skills? And let's not forget the SUV asshats who think they can go fast on ice in an SUV and be able to stop. It's incredible--I just heard the courts have closed and the streets are DRY already. Can you say overreaction?
Okay. Enough of the NM OT rant. Back to your regularly-scheduled programming.
Konopelli, dude. It wasn't even a small blizzard. It was snowing. Yeah, I remember Albq. in the 60's and that there was more snow back in the good old days. Since I didn't drive, I didn't notice the quality of snow driving back then. But I have always wondered what happens to all the people who move here from other locations which DO have weather--and there are more of them than natives. Do they forget all their weather-driving skills? And let's not forget the SUV asshats who think they can go fast on ice in an SUV and be able to stop. It's incredible--I just heard the courts have closed and the streets are DRY already. Can you say overreaction?
Okay. Enough of the NM OT rant. Back to your regularly-scheduled programming.
It is patently stupid to believe that the human race came from a gene pool of two people, I realized this at the age of ten and promptly stopped attending church.
krsaz
I also stopped believing at age ten. Reasoned that any supremely powerful being who would create a Hell to eternally torture people that pissed him off was such an asshole that he didn't deserve worship. My folks weren't quite as enlightened as yours, unfortunately, and I was forced to attend all the way through confirmation.
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It is patently stupid to believe that the human race came from a gene pool of two people, I realized this at the age of ten and promptly stopped attending church.
krsaz
I also stopped believing at age ten. Reasoned that any supremely powerful being who would create a Hell to eternally torture people that pissed him off was such an asshole that he didn't deserve worship. My folks weren't quite as enlightened as yours, unfortunately, and I was forced to attend all the way through confirmation.
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Kerry WON by landslide, just like the exit polls reported, and just as ANYONE with functional eyes SAW
"Morality," which AEI and others were immediately trying to sell to us as the 'reason' Diebold gave Bush the election, is an absurd reason for this pig who pushed the country into a preplanned war thus creating his SECOND mountain of corpses. He also created a mountain of corpses in Haiti, and has abetted a mountain of corpses in Sudan.
So he didn't win on 'morality.' Neither did his Patriot Act thuggism raise the requisite brownshirt vote, either in the runup to his Corpse Mountain experiments on the human race, nor in his terrible 2004 campaign. Why bother to campaign, when the FIX is in? No one saw huge crowds of Bush supporters; while Kerry PACKED THEM IN. No one heard Dems saying they were voting for Bush; EVERYONE heard Rs saying they were horrified at Bush and the rightwing.
A vote system counted by partisan-$R companies, on secret software 'tested and certified' by partisan-$R companies, abetted by partisan-$R SecStates (or bribed, threatened $D versions), now internationally known as 'Katherines' for the absurdity of the 2000 stolen election -- that's not a legal voting system.
Especially not when they are CAUGHT in CA's fake 03 Recall, illegally installing and removing untested, uncertified counting software in SEVENTEEN COUNTIES, and the software was observed FLIPPING THE VOTE. That and the fact that Diebold SALESMEN were allowed to FLIP the votes in the counting rooms, and now we find out that some precincts actually HIRED Diebold to RUN THEIR ELECTIONS! Gee, that's not in the Constitution.
Especially not when a nationwide partisan-$R voter registration company is CAUGHT destroying Dem registrations. Especially not when voter waits extended to 22 hours. Especially not when precincts across America counted more votes for Bush than were registered.
Kerry WON by landslide.
Tell us all again how that is a man date for Bush? It's a mandate for a coup to continue the coup. After all, they haven't been shot down like dogs yet!
--
Kerry WON by landslide, just like the exit polls reported, and just as ANYONE with functional eyes SAW
"Morality," which AEI and others were immediately trying to sell to us as the 'reason' Diebold gave Bush the election, is an absurd reason for this pig who pushed the country into a preplanned war thus creating his SECOND mountain of corpses. He also created a mountain of corpses in Haiti, and has abetted a mountain of corpses in Sudan.
So he didn't win on 'morality.' Neither did his Patriot Act thuggism raise the requisite brownshirt vote, either in the runup to his Corpse Mountain experiments on the human race, nor in his terrible 2004 campaign. Why bother to campaign, when the FIX is in? No one saw huge crowds of Bush supporters; while Kerry PACKED THEM IN. No one heard Dems saying they were voting for Bush; EVERYONE heard Rs saying they were horrified at Bush and the rightwing.
A vote system counted by partisan-$R companies, on secret software 'tested and certified' by partisan-$R companies, abetted by partisan-$R SecStates (or bribed, threatened $D versions), now internationally known as 'Katherines' for the absurdity of the 2000 stolen election -- that's not a legal voting system.
Especially not when they are CAUGHT in CA's fake 03 Recall, illegally installing and removing untested, uncertified counting software in SEVENTEEN COUNTIES, and the software was observed FLIPPING THE VOTE. That and the fact that Diebold SALESMEN were allowed to FLIP the votes in the counting rooms, and now we find out that some precincts actually HIRED Diebold to RUN THEIR ELECTIONS! Gee, that's not in the Constitution.
Especially not when a nationwide partisan-$R voter registration company is CAUGHT destroying Dem registrations. Especially not when voter waits extended to 22 hours. Especially not when precincts across America counted more votes for Bush than were registered.
Kerry WON by landslide.
Tell us all again how that is a man date for Bush? It's a mandate for a coup to continue the coup. After all, they haven't been shot down like dogs yet!
--
Hypocracy hsa always been a core value for the Christian right. It's obvious that what I do is justified but morality must be enforced for everybody else.
Hypocracy hsa always been a core value for the Christian right. It's obvious that what I do is justified but morality must be enforced for everybody else.
"I've never thought that lining your own pocket at the public's expense, lying America into a war, or stirring up hate against minority groups were American values."
I'm sure someone upthread already pointed this out, but there is your mistake: this is a new America and indeed greed, corruption, incompetence, lying, and hate ARE the values of the majority of 'Muricans.
.
"I've never thought that lining your own pocket at the public's expense, lying America into a war, or stirring up hate against minority groups were American values."
I'm sure someone upthread already pointed this out, but there is your mistake: this is a new America and indeed greed, corruption, incompetence, lying, and hate ARE the values of the majority of 'Muricans.
.
Paul,
You perhaps may be right. What I wanna know is why we don't have a frickin' media in this country? Why are no young, hotheaded journalists trying to break the story of a lifetime?
And speaking of the media - do you think if we were to get off our asses and start protesting the election like they are in the Ukraine, the media would give us the same respect they give the Ukrainian protestors or would they insinuate that we are haters who just cannot stand that we lost the election?
I know there are some who would consider me anti-America for even suggesting that America is not some super country that can do know wrong. But why have we become a nation of hypocrites who are willing to use deadly force to ensure that the rest of the world engages in "democracy" and doesn't possess WMDs when we have flawed elections and WMDs galore?
When did shutting up and defering to authority become an "American value"? When did the values of our Founding Fathers - who committed TREASON rather than suck up to the military industrial complex behind the ill King George (sound familiar?) - become "un-American" (I'm talking to you mAnne Coulter)? When did refusing to say the emperor has no clothes become an act of patriotism and saying so become un-patriotic?
I wanna know when our country lost its way.
I think it has something to do with brain-dead fundies (btw - why must we be "sensative" to them but we cannot be "sensative" to Muslim fundies? WTF is the difference?).
Whatever - I say we should all pray, including us non-Christians, for the second coming of Jesus. It's about time Jesus came back and opened up a can of whoop-ass on the hypocrites!
Paul,
You perhaps may be right. What I wanna know is why we don't have a frickin' media in this country? Why are no young, hotheaded journalists trying to break the story of a lifetime?
And speaking of the media - do you think if we were to get off our asses and start protesting the election like they are in the Ukraine, the media would give us the same respect they give the Ukrainian protestors or would they insinuate that we are haters who just cannot stand that we lost the election?
I know there are some who would consider me anti-America for even suggesting that America is not some super country that can do know wrong. But why have we become a nation of hypocrites who are willing to use deadly force to ensure that the rest of the world engages in "democracy" and doesn't possess WMDs when we have flawed elections and WMDs galore?
When did shutting up and defering to authority become an "American value"? When did the values of our Founding Fathers - who committed TREASON rather than suck up to the military industrial complex behind the ill King George (sound familiar?) - become "un-American" (I'm talking to you mAnne Coulter)? When did refusing to say the emperor has no clothes become an act of patriotism and saying so become un-patriotic?
I wanna know when our country lost its way.
I think it has something to do with brain-dead fundies (btw - why must we be "sensative" to them but we cannot be "sensative" to Muslim fundies? WTF is the difference?).
Whatever - I say we should all pray, including us non-Christians, for the second coming of Jesus. It's about time Jesus came back and opened up a can of whoop-ass on the hypocrites!
going way way way up thread, i just thought i'd point out that the reason that falwell's church is rich is that he's been bailed out by frontmen for the unification church. and moon's support of falwell (and people like tim lahaye) is part of the reason he's all over the media.
some articles about moon and money from consortium news:
http://tinyurl.com/2kyes
a xian anti-cult site's take on the moon/falwell relationship. it's interesting to see some of the tensions in the right's religious coalition:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/u01.html
going way way way up thread, i just thought i'd point out that the reason that falwell's church is rich is that he's been bailed out by frontmen for the unification church. and moon's support of falwell (and people like tim lahaye) is part of the reason he's all over the media.
some articles about moon and money from consortium news:
http://tinyurl.com/2kyes
a xian anti-cult site's take on the moon/falwell relationship. it's interesting to see some of the tensions in the right's religious coalition:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/u01.html
"I don't know why we don't make more out of the dead children of Iraq."
putting aside the horror, from a practical political vantage, this is not a topic that those who voted for the Bushliar care about. They may have an occassional 'ain't that a shame' moment, but by and large the slaughter of innocent non-white, non-American children is an acceptable cost of whatever goals they bought into for the Bushliar's Iraqi adventure. (Just as 1200+ US soldier deaths don't really move them.)
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"I don't know why we don't make more out of the dead children of Iraq."
putting aside the horror, from a practical political vantage, this is not a topic that those who voted for the Bushliar care about. They may have an occassional 'ain't that a shame' moment, but by and large the slaughter of innocent non-white, non-American children is an acceptable cost of whatever goals they bought into for the Bushliar's Iraqi adventure. (Just as 1200+ US soldier deaths don't really move them.)
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but by and large the slaughter of innocent non-white, non-American children is an acceptable cost of whatever goals they bought into...
Which group also included the former Secretary of State, Murderous Madeleine Albright...
but by and large the slaughter of innocent non-white, non-American children is an acceptable cost of whatever goals they bought into...
Which group also included the former Secretary of State, Murderous Madeleine Albright...
"I don't think that many people voted for Bush..."
the assumption being that they didn't want Kerry more than they didn't want this, but consider: Americans have in the past pretty consistently voted against single party government, which we've had for at least the past 2 years. On Nov 02 the majority endorsed that idea and strengthened the repukelican hold on government for at least 2 more years - a pretty strong statement that at least 51% are FOR what the repukelicans are selling.
I think it is a better starting point to assume that Bush DOES represent the majority and try to convince them of the error of their ways than to assume a fluke or skull duggery occurred and try to find some scape goat, e.g., US Big Media. Besides, it should have been a landslide for Kerry. That it was close (either way) undeniably points to a huge amount of repukelican kool-ade needing to be flushed out of the system.
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"I don't think that many people voted for Bush..."
the assumption being that they didn't want Kerry more than they didn't want this, but consider: Americans have in the past pretty consistently voted against single party government, which we've had for at least the past 2 years. On Nov 02 the majority endorsed that idea and strengthened the repukelican hold on government for at least 2 more years - a pretty strong statement that at least 51% are FOR what the repukelicans are selling.
I think it is a better starting point to assume that Bush DOES represent the majority and try to convince them of the error of their ways than to assume a fluke or skull duggery occurred and try to find some scape goat, e.g., US Big Media. Besides, it should have been a landslide for Kerry. That it was close (either way) undeniably points to a huge amount of repukelican kool-ade needing to be flushed out of the system.
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Pollen Boy: Thanks for the Adam & Eve line of questioning. I'll use it next time I'm discussing the literal truth of the Bible with my fundy brother and sister-in-law, who actually do seem to engage in thought when we talk.
My latest to them was the whole "word of God" thing, pointing out to them that the Apostle Paul wrote much of the New Testament (the Epistles) and asking them was Paul God? Or was Jesus the only human personification of God. (Ans: only Jesus) So, I push them, the Epistle are the word of Paul, not of God.
Given this line, I suggest to them, only the Gospels, which purport (with inconsistencies between them, of course) to set down the words of Jesus, can really be "true."
I then go on to point out how Jesus was sent by God to "correct" the practice of (Jewish) religion up to that time. So, it must be, the Gospels supplanted the Old Testament, and it, too, must go.
Thus the Bible is left as the Gospels. And if you read them, and only them, you sure do get a different view of what God wants you to do. Mainly, He wants you to love one another and take care of the poor, but he also wants you to wage peace ("blessed are the peacemakers"), separate religion and government ("render unto Caesar") and to pray in private, not public.
Although one must read the Gospels to do it, I think it is a worthy effort to counter the "Religious" Right with Jesus's own words, whether or not you believe Jesus was divine.
The primary weakness of Falwell et al. is their hypocrisy, which should be pointed out every time they appear on TV. Wallis does a good job, I think, but he should not be alone.
Pollen Boy: Thanks for the Adam & Eve line of questioning. I'll use it next time I'm discussing the literal truth of the Bible with my fundy brother and sister-in-law, who actually do seem to engage in thought when we talk.
My latest to them was the whole "word of God" thing, pointing out to them that the Apostle Paul wrote much of the New Testament (the Epistles) and asking them was Paul God? Or was Jesus the only human personification of God. (Ans: only Jesus) So, I push them, the Epistle are the word of Paul, not of God.
Given this line, I suggest to them, only the Gospels, which purport (with inconsistencies between them, of course) to set down the words of Jesus, can really be "true."
I then go on to point out how Jesus was sent by God to "correct" the practice of (Jewish) religion up to that time. So, it must be, the Gospels supplanted the Old Testament, and it, too, must go.
Thus the Bible is left as the Gospels. And if you read them, and only them, you sure do get a different view of what God wants you to do. Mainly, He wants you to love one another and take care of the poor, but he also wants you to wage peace ("blessed are the peacemakers"), separate religion and government ("render unto Caesar") and to pray in private, not public.
Although one must read the Gospels to do it, I think it is a worthy effort to counter the "Religious" Right with Jesus's own words, whether or not you believe Jesus was divine.
The primary weakness of Falwell et al. is their hypocrisy, which should be pointed out every time they appear on TV. Wallis does a good job, I think, but he should not be alone.
"...didn't want this..." should be: "...didn't want Bush..."
oops
"...didn't want this..." should be: "...didn't want Bush..."
oops
one last link--john gorenfeld's blog about moon:
http://tinyurl.com/5tosx
one last link--john gorenfeld's blog about moon:
http://tinyurl.com/5tosx
"I'm with you. Kerry was a good candidate and he ran a good campaign."
good candidate running a good (issues) campaign are insufficient. the most important ingredient to getting elected is not knowing the issues or having solutions, it is personality. That Americans think the Bushliar has personality and they think they relate to, or identify with him is VERY disturbing.
.
"I'm with you. Kerry was a good candidate and he ran a good campaign."
good candidate running a good (issues) campaign are insufficient. the most important ingredient to getting elected is not knowing the issues or having solutions, it is personality. That Americans think the Bushliar has personality and they think they relate to, or identify with him is VERY disturbing.
.
You gotta get yourselves corrected as far as decade-metaphors!
Everybody seems to think we are replaying the 1930s. Wrong! It's still the 1920s. The attitudes and beatitudes of the '20s are right in line with the way people think today. The 30s aint started yet. With the 30s and the depression came a massive shift in values. Now, there were people warning America all thru the 20s about what would happen. And nobody did much. When the depression hit, tunes changed.
We are just gonna have to wait until America sees the results of our current ethos played out. Can't tell 'em nothin. And when they get hit right in the face with it, they'll be ready to listen. The same people depending on Federal aid in the thirties were the ones swearing by their own bootstraps in the twenties. And said they would never change.
You gotta get yourselves corrected as far as decade-metaphors!
Everybody seems to think we are replaying the 1930s. Wrong! It's still the 1920s. The attitudes and beatitudes of the '20s are right in line with the way people think today. The 30s aint started yet. With the 30s and the depression came a massive shift in values. Now, there were people warning America all thru the 20s about what would happen. And nobody did much. When the depression hit, tunes changed.
We are just gonna have to wait until America sees the results of our current ethos played out. Can't tell 'em nothin. And when they get hit right in the face with it, they'll be ready to listen. The same people depending on Federal aid in the thirties were the ones swearing by their own bootstraps in the twenties. And said they would never change.
"What I wanna know is why"
What are you, Howard Dean? We've been singing that tune for quite a while.
"we don't have a frickin' media in this country? Why are no young, hotheaded journalists trying to break the story of a lifetime?"
For WHOM? In case you weren't watching, the rightwing took over the media through deregulation and a scorched earth centralization of the resulting giant companies.
"And speaking of the media - do you think if we were to get off our asses and start protesting the election"
Get off your ass! I protest again TODAY. On the streets. OUT LOUD.
" like they are in the Ukraine, the media would give us the same respect they give the Ukrainian protestors...?"--DAS
Same answer as above, with the addition that they are showing their ASS in your face, which is a fundamental method of Skull-n-bones, which I will recap yet again:
1) Threaten 'em.
2) Take thug action without relenting.
3) Show 'em your ass.
4) Get them to thank you for it.
People who protest for the cameras don't understand protest. Protest so that the people around you still have free speech because they have been empowered by YOUR expression of outrage.
Whining about the media is not accomplishing anything. FIGHT your local media, and begin by finding out who they are, really. Who do they work for? That was the whole value of the Sinclair fight in October. OUTING the wingers who run the media.
--
"What I wanna know is why"
What are you, Howard Dean? We've been singing that tune for quite a while.
"we don't have a frickin' media in this country? Why are no young, hotheaded journalists trying to break the story of a lifetime?"
For WHOM? In case you weren't watching, the rightwing took over the media through deregulation and a scorched earth centralization of the resulting giant companies.
"And speaking of the media - do you think if we were to get off our asses and start protesting the election"
Get off your ass! I protest again TODAY. On the streets. OUT LOUD.
" like they are in the Ukraine, the media would give us the same respect they give the Ukrainian protestors...?"--DAS
Same answer as above, with the addition that they are showing their ASS in your face, which is a fundamental method of Skull-n-bones, which I will recap yet again:
1) Threaten 'em.
2) Take thug action without relenting.
3) Show 'em your ass.
4) Get them to thank you for it.
People who protest for the cameras don't understand protest. Protest so that the people around you still have free speech because they have been empowered by YOUR expression of outrage.
Whining about the media is not accomplishing anything. FIGHT your local media, and begin by finding out who they are, really. Who do they work for? That was the whole value of the Sinclair fight in October. OUTING the wingers who run the media.
--
"We are just gonna have to wait until America sees the results of our current ethos played out. Can't tell 'em nothin. And when they get hit right in the face with it, they'll be ready to listen."
More defeatist appeasement theory.
The people just elected John Kerry by landslide.
Unlike most of the $R party, most people are not children of alcoholics who need to hit bottom to know where their asses are.
Stop slandering Americans because of a stolen media, stolen elections, and a stolen preznitry. If not for Diebold, we would not be 'in' the 20s. (the 1820s).
--
"We are just gonna have to wait until America sees the results of our current ethos played out. Can't tell 'em nothin. And when they get hit right in the face with it, they'll be ready to listen."
More defeatist appeasement theory.
The people just elected John Kerry by landslide.
Unlike most of the $R party, most people are not children of alcoholics who need to hit bottom to know where their asses are.
Stop slandering Americans because of a stolen media, stolen elections, and a stolen preznitry. If not for Diebold, we would not be 'in' the 20s. (the 1820s).
--
The big mistake here is actually taking the vote tabulations as proof of some intention in the American electorate.
It is.was no such thing.
The vote was manipulated; votes were flipped, and ignored or lost, or disqualified, or otherwise dispensed with. The whole election and the aftermath is and was a sham, designed to provide enough distractions to shroud the fraud, theft, intimidation and corruption, and give the SCLM something to write about other than the outright (though covert) theft of the election by the GOPhascist fux who are now spreading the rumor of a mandate that would justify all manner of future thefts (e.g., Social Security 'reform').
So stop it, already... you're just playing into their hands...
The big mistake here is actually taking the vote tabulations as proof of some intention in the American electorate.
It is.was no such thing.
The vote was manipulated; votes were flipped, and ignored or lost, or disqualified, or otherwise dispensed with. The whole election and the aftermath is and was a sham, designed to provide enough distractions to shroud the fraud, theft, intimidation and corruption, and give the SCLM something to write about other than the outright (though covert) theft of the election by the GOPhascist fux who are now spreading the rumor of a mandate that would justify all manner of future thefts (e.g., Social Security 'reform').
So stop it, already... you're just playing into their hands...
""good candidate running a good (issues) campaign are insufficient."
Having the majority of voters wanting to vote for you is also insufficient under this ILLEGAL voting system.
" the most important ingredient to getting elected is not knowing the issues or having solutions, it is personality."
The fuck it is. Getting the votes counted, getting the voters votes placed as is, and not flipped by the millions in a computer, that's the whole game right there.
"That Americans think the Bushliar has personality and they think they relate to, or identify with him is VERY disturbing."--zoot
Yeah, that's disturbing, but having ANTHRAX sent to the Majority Leader, no investigation (even though it is reportedly a government strain), and then to listen to the snarks against Daschle, as if it never happened -- THAT'S disturbing.
Support your President. FIGHT for a recount of this last stolen election. FIGHT to have Diebold removed from your state. FIGHT to have the Katherines removed from government. FIGHT so that the slander that Americans support Bushliar is undone.
Support your President: John Kerry, who WON EASILY, by landslide, in a fair, legal election.
--
""good candidate running a good (issues) campaign are insufficient."
Having the majority of voters wanting to vote for you is also insufficient under this ILLEGAL voting system.
" the most important ingredient to getting elected is not knowing the issues or having solutions, it is personality."
The fuck it is. Getting the votes counted, getting the voters votes placed as is, and not flipped by the millions in a computer, that's the whole game right there.
"That Americans think the Bushliar has personality and they think they relate to, or identify with him is VERY disturbing."--zoot
Yeah, that's disturbing, but having ANTHRAX sent to the Majority Leader, no investigation (even though it is reportedly a government strain), and then to listen to the snarks against Daschle, as if it never happened -- THAT'S disturbing.
Support your President. FIGHT for a recount of this last stolen election. FIGHT to have Diebold removed from your state. FIGHT to have the Katherines removed from government. FIGHT so that the slander that Americans support Bushliar is undone.
Support your President: John Kerry, who WON EASILY, by landslide, in a fair, legal election.
--
If Kerry were willing to fight himself instead of being a two-bit coward chickenshit Quisling hiding and whimpering after rolling over for 30 pieces of silver, we might support him.
We fought for him enough - he sat on his ass. He can go to hell.
If Kerry were willing to fight himself instead of being a two-bit coward chickenshit Quisling hiding and whimpering after rolling over for 30 pieces of silver, we might support him.
We fought for him enough - he sat on his ass. He can go to hell.
O.K., first of all, who broke dailykos?
Second, this (busting the SCLM and Radical Cleric meme over "moral values") is big. Think how Douglas Adams described the universe in "Hitchhiker's Guide." That kind of big. The blogworld needs to flog this thing. Keep bringing it up. I'll dutifully put my drop in the bucket by emailing all the usual suspects.
Third, when's Mr. J going to get his own site?
BenGoshi
___________________________________
O.K., first of all, who broke dailykos?
Second, this (busting the SCLM and Radical Cleric meme over "moral values") is big. Think how Douglas Adams described the universe in "Hitchhiker's Guide." That kind of big. The blogworld needs to flog this thing. Keep bringing it up. I'll dutifully put my drop in the bucket by emailing all the usual suspects.
Third, when's Mr. J going to get his own site?
BenGoshi
___________________________________
There are too many fronts to attack the Republican "moral" voters on from just one article, so I will try to distill as much as possible:
Republicans don't wish to have facts pointed out to them, the results of the election speak to that conclusion directly. They fell for the "home boy" act of GWB while accusing Kerry of being patrician, brainy and I can't remember what else. Oh yeah, a flip flopper.
Last time I looked, GWB was born into an elitist family based in Kennebunkport and other East Coast ports of call. He, like Kerry, is a millionaire. He, like Kerry has very little in common with the "common, moral" people of the red states who voted for him, against their screaming consciences' advice, I might add.
Second to last time I looked, GWB flip flopped on issues, in the same manner that all politicians do. Privatizing SS, the issue of going to war "as a last resort" and so forth.
Republican voters reacted to one thing and one thing only in this election: FEAR. Everyone who opened a newspaper and watched anything other than Fox News already understands that.
Democrats in the future will either delineate their values, moral and all others, in a fashion so as to separate them from Republicans or the losses will mount.
Used to be a time when Democrats stood for something. Now, guilt-minded Democrats (I am guessing here, I do not know what makes Dems shrink from the label) are ashamed when the "Liberal" word is tossed about.
Go back in history and check out the most famous Liberal Democrat Presidents and tell me what they have done that we have to be ashamed of--it is a mystery to me.
Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, fellow Democrats and those of you from other parties, this is one Liberal Democrat who lets no one insinuate that I have something to be ashamed of and that my "culture" needs correction.
If we are going to abdicate the Party so that we may appear more (what?) in order to be elected by some of the 51% of Americans who have proven that they are not critical thinkers, what is the purpose?
Lysle W. Robinson
There are too many fronts to attack the Republican "moral" voters on from just one article, so I will try to distill as much as possible:
Republicans don't wish to have facts pointed out to them, the results of the election speak to that conclusion directly. They fell for the "home boy" act of GWB while accusing Kerry of being patrician, brainy and I can't remember what else. Oh yeah, a flip flopper.
Last time I looked, GWB was born into an elitist family based in Kennebunkport and other East Coast ports of call. He, like Kerry, is a millionaire. He, like Kerry has very little in common with the "common, moral" people of the red states who voted for him, against their screaming consciences' advice, I might add.
Second to last time I looked, GWB flip flopped on issues, in the same manner that all politicians do. Privatizing SS, the issue of going to war "as a last resort" and so forth.
Republican voters reacted to one thing and one thing only in this election: FEAR. Everyone who opened a newspaper and watched anything other than Fox News already understands that.
Democrats in the future will either delineate their values, moral and all others, in a fashion so as to separate them from Republicans or the losses will mount.
Used to be a time when Democrats stood for something. Now, guilt-minded Democrats (I am guessing here, I do not know what makes Dems shrink from the label) are ashamed when the "Liberal" word is tossed about.
Go back in history and check out the most famous Liberal Democrat Presidents and tell me what they have done that we have to be ashamed of--it is a mystery to me.
Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, fellow Democrats and those of you from other parties, this is one Liberal Democrat who lets no one insinuate that I have something to be ashamed of and that my "culture" needs correction.
If we are going to abdicate the Party so that we may appear more (what?) in order to be elected by some of the 51% of Americans who have proven that they are not critical thinkers, what is the purpose?
Lysle W. Robinson
I disagree with the Rich stat on DH viewing in red states, cited here. That is a classic case of the ecological fallacy, and it has been repeated in various ways in post-election analyses: You cannot definitively project individual level behavior from aggregate level data.
In other words, we do not know that the people watching DH were also the ones voting GOP. Maybe, maybe not. So it is a matter of curiosity and humor, but not a statement of fact, let alone evidence of hypocrisy.
That said, I agree with much of the rest he says. The problem, as I wrote in my blog, is that many of these programs are worthless anyway, and abstract appeals to free speech ring fairly hollow when you're talking about trashy TV.
As I wrote, "While I believe the FCC is overstepping its authority and networks are exercising unnecessary and potentially damaging self-censorship in order to stem its wrath, I can't exactly defend Married By America with full heart. The MNF controversy doesn't have quite the right ring, either: 'I will not jump naked into the arms of Terrell Owens on national TV, but I defend to the death Nicolette Sheridan's right to do so.'"
We cannot throw up our hands, however, and instead should attack the crass manipulation in which these groups engage.
I disagree with the Rich stat on DH viewing in red states, cited here. That is a classic case of the ecological fallacy, and it has been repeated in various ways in post-election analyses: You cannot definitively project individual level behavior from aggregate level data.
In other words, we do not know that the people watching DH were also the ones voting GOP. Maybe, maybe not. So it is a matter of curiosity and humor, but not a statement of fact, let alone evidence of hypocrisy.
That said, I agree with much of the rest he says. The problem, as I wrote in my blog, is that many of these programs are worthless anyway, and abstract appeals to free speech ring fairly hollow when you're talking about trashy TV.
As I wrote, "While I believe the FCC is overstepping its authority and networks are exercising unnecessary and potentially damaging self-censorship in order to stem its wrath, I can't exactly defend Married By America with full heart. The MNF controversy doesn't have quite the right ring, either: 'I will not jump naked into the arms of Terrell Owens on national TV, but I defend to the death Nicolette Sheridan's right to do so.'"
We cannot throw up our hands, however, and instead should attack the crass manipulation in which these groups engage.
Tena | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 9:55 am | #
Tena, AIM HIGHER.
Tena | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 9:55 am | #
Tena, AIM HIGHER.
"We fought for him enough - he sat on his ass. He can go to hell."--KerryCanSuckIt
Kerry WON by landslide.
And with or without his rightful win, he is still in the Senate, where he will do a lot more than you will accomplish, especially if WE work his office to keep him hammering.
Your boo-hoo-hoo Purity is noted for the record.
Didn't you get your lollipop for your political efforts?
In a situation like this, we need SOLIDARITY a whole lot more than we need endless immature whining from people who blame Kerry for the coup.
Here's a clue: IT AIN'T HIS FAULT.
You need to get your ass in gear fighting the people IN YOUR STATE who STOLE YOUR VOTE.
Whining about the man who 65% of the electorate wanted as their President is just stupid. The battle is with Diebold and the Katherines, and even with federal help, it is a state by state battle.
--
"We fought for him enough - he sat on his ass. He can go to hell."--KerryCanSuckIt
Kerry WON by landslide.
And with or without his rightful win, he is still in the Senate, where he will do a lot more than you will accomplish, especially if WE work his office to keep him hammering.
Your boo-hoo-hoo Purity is noted for the record.
Didn't you get your lollipop for your political efforts?
In a situation like this, we need SOLIDARITY a whole lot more than we need endless immature whining from people who blame Kerry for the coup.
Here's a clue: IT AIN'T HIS FAULT.
You need to get your ass in gear fighting the people IN YOUR STATE who STOLE YOUR VOTE.
Whining about the man who 65% of the electorate wanted as their President is just stupid. The battle is with Diebold and the Katherines, and even with federal help, it is a state by state battle.
--
Jeez, in one paragraph, you almost say the word that everyone wants to say......F-R-A-U-D.
Funny how it goes, the Dem leadership is "soul searching, but had the right message all along. And nobody mentions FRAUD.
I find this quite humorous in a wry sort of way.....like a Monty Python Skit about Parrots.
I can't prove Fraud, but I am pushing for a forensic investigation of the 2004 election.
I'm not alone either.
Jeez, in one paragraph, you almost say the word that everyone wants to say......F-R-A-U-D.
Funny how it goes, the Dem leadership is "soul searching, but had the right message all along. And nobody mentions FRAUD.
I find this quite humorous in a wry sort of way.....like a Monty Python Skit about Parrots.
I can't prove Fraud, but I am pushing for a forensic investigation of the 2004 election.
I'm not alone either.
Great column! No wonder Bush and Cheney don't like this guy.
And while we're on the subject of moral values and Red State hypocrisy, does anybody know where country music is most popular?
I speak, of course, of the country music about drinkin', fightin', fuckin', gamblin', cheatin', and pickup trucks.
Great column! No wonder Bush and Cheney don't like this guy.
And while we're on the subject of moral values and Red State hypocrisy, does anybody know where country music is most popular?
I speak, of course, of the country music about drinkin', fightin', fuckin', gamblin', cheatin', and pickup trucks.
JRK:
Yew fergot dawgs.
JRK:
Yew fergot dawgs.
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