I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
So, somebody finally defined moral and ethical values in such a fashion that a poll could be taken? How wonderful for us all - now, nobody who didn't before know what was dirty will feel in the least restrained from designating exactly what it is they don't know now. And making sure that it isn't available.
Pfui.
So, somebody finally defined moral and ethical values in such a fashion that a poll could be taken? How wonderful for us all - now, nobody who didn't before know what was dirty will feel in the least restrained from designating exactly what it is they don't know now. And making sure that it isn't available.
Pfui.
The first poll Zogby sent me after the election was the first one to include a "moral values" question.
I'd been annoyed with lists of issues in the question that asked me which was the most important. Taxes? Well, yes, I think taxes on the rich should be restored, probably to 1960 levels. Education? Yes, I think education is vital to a functioning democracy. The environment? Security? Iraq? Jobs? Yes, yes, I think what Bush has been doing on these fronts has been devastating to our nation. But which one is more important? I couldn't choose.
But guess what - they're all part of the same moral issues I have about creating a better society and a better world. So, at last, I could pick the one that mattered most of all, the one they all fit under.
I voted for Kerry because of moral values - that is, I actually have some. Bare breasts and dirty words aren't even an issue for me.
The first poll Zogby sent me after the election was the first one to include a "moral values" question.
I'd been annoyed with lists of issues in the question that asked me which was the most important. Taxes? Well, yes, I think taxes on the rich should be restored, probably to 1960 levels. Education? Yes, I think education is vital to a functioning democracy. The environment? Security? Iraq? Jobs? Yes, yes, I think what Bush has been doing on these fronts has been devastating to our nation. But which one is more important? I couldn't choose.
But guess what - they're all part of the same moral issues I have about creating a better society and a better world. So, at last, I could pick the one that mattered most of all, the one they all fit under.
I voted for Kerry because of moral values - that is, I actually have some. Bare breasts and dirty words aren't even an issue for me.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
Where are the Democrats indeed? These are some of the questions screaming to be asked, yet what we hear is mostly silence. It is probably not the opposition that we need to be most worried about...
Where are the Democrats indeed? These are some of the questions screaming to be asked, yet what we hear is mostly silence. It is probably not the opposition that we need to be most worried about...
Rich centers his comments around the "Monday Night Football/Desperate Housewives" promotion. And he quotes Aaron Brown, who says "People were so outraged they had to see it 10 times."
I agree with Hecate. This isn't about "moral values." It's the same old club, picked up once again as a way of wielding power. And the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power.
Rich centers his comments around the "Monday Night Football/Desperate Housewives" promotion. And he quotes Aaron Brown, who says "People were so outraged they had to see it 10 times."
I agree with Hecate. This isn't about "moral values." It's the same old club, picked up once again as a way of wielding power. And the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power.
Sigh.
22 percent, down from 40 percent in 1996 voted on the basis of 'moral values' when given a list of issues to choose from and supposedly 80% of the 'moral values' choosers voted for Bush, as if there were another issue they could choose where they thought he had a position that they could cite that was better.
And this part of the poll, never mind that the more important part of the poll which is the 'exit' part, is supposedly discredited for being 'wrong, just wrong' is the cause of a panel of religious fanatics being hosted on pumpkinhead's show as a legitimate poltical force.
I'm not too optimistic for my country this morning.
-
Sigh.
22 percent, down from 40 percent in 1996 voted on the basis of 'moral values' when given a list of issues to choose from and supposedly 80% of the 'moral values' choosers voted for Bush, as if there were another issue they could choose where they thought he had a position that they could cite that was better.
And this part of the poll, never mind that the more important part of the poll which is the 'exit' part, is supposedly discredited for being 'wrong, just wrong' is the cause of a panel of religious fanatics being hosted on pumpkinhead's show as a legitimate poltical force.
I'm not too optimistic for my country this morning.
-
If I hear 'where are the Democrats' one more time, I'm going to pluck my own eyes from their sockets.
The Democratic Party is proving to be more and more irrelevant in the post-election aftermath.
It either needs to be totally purged and rebuilt from the ground up, or abandoned entirely and a new viable alternative created. The stakes are just too high now.
If I hear 'where are the Democrats' one more time, I'm going to pluck my own eyes from their sockets.
The Democratic Party is proving to be more and more irrelevant in the post-election aftermath.
It either needs to be totally purged and rebuilt from the ground up, or abandoned entirely and a new viable alternative created. The stakes are just too high now.
America's "Moral and Ethical Values"?.....sure, they can be operationally defined.....in dollars and cents.
America's "Moral and Ethical Values"?.....sure, they can be operationally defined.....in dollars and cents.
The Morality Brigade doesn't want you to think for yourself. They lose control that way because the fear and intimidation factor becomes irrelevant, once people use the rational mind that God gave them.
The other nice thing the Morality Brigade does is - looks out only for themselves and fuck everyone else.
The media - is just looking for more ratings. Like a dry sponge attracted to a source of water.
The Morality Brigade doesn't want you to think for yourself. They lose control that way because the fear and intimidation factor becomes irrelevant, once people use the rational mind that God gave them.
The other nice thing the Morality Brigade does is - looks out only for themselves and fuck everyone else.
The media - is just looking for more ratings. Like a dry sponge attracted to a source of water.
Where are the Democrats?
…And where are Michael's eyeballs?
Where are the Democrats?
…And where are Michael's eyeballs?
I know this has been said before, but I think it bears repeating: what would have been the reaction if the player whose arms Nicolette Sheridan had jumped into had been, say, Brett Fahhhv-rey? Somebody nice and lily white? Would Rush have been so nonplussed?
And Rich does a good job of pointing out that these "outraged" people are the same ones who are watching "Desperate Housewives", so I have no idea how they reconcile that fact with themselves.
I know this has been said before, but I think it bears repeating: what would have been the reaction if the player whose arms Nicolette Sheridan had jumped into had been, say, Brett Fahhhv-rey? Somebody nice and lily white? Would Rush have been so nonplussed?
And Rich does a good job of pointing out that these "outraged" people are the same ones who are watching "Desperate Housewives", so I have no idea how they reconcile that fact with themselves.
What's going on here is a smoke and mirrors game. It's like their campaigns, they can't win with substance so they try to win with vague things that they believe can't be challenged. Anyone who says they don't care about "moral values" or that points out that most people don't care will be attacked.
The solution is to side step their strawman and focus on issues that are of value.
For instance the rapidly falling dollar or paper ballots.
Basically we need a message that they can't contradict, our best bets are nationalists platforms like closing our borders to illegal immigration, lowering the deficit and other things that they say they agree with. If we say it louder than they do, they will appear to be followers rather than leaders.
Why the "Democrats" aren't speaking is because the "Democrats," meaning the DNC is a DLC controlled beast at the moment. The DLC needs to get kicked out, once that happens things can change.
We need someone who is anti-DLC, because the DLC are Republican appeasers and clones.
What's going on here is a smoke and mirrors game. It's like their campaigns, they can't win with substance so they try to win with vague things that they believe can't be challenged. Anyone who says they don't care about "moral values" or that points out that most people don't care will be attacked.
The solution is to side step their strawman and focus on issues that are of value.
For instance the rapidly falling dollar or paper ballots.
Basically we need a message that they can't contradict, our best bets are nationalists platforms like closing our borders to illegal immigration, lowering the deficit and other things that they say they agree with. If we say it louder than they do, they will appear to be followers rather than leaders.
Why the "Democrats" aren't speaking is because the "Democrats," meaning the DNC is a DLC controlled beast at the moment. The DLC needs to get kicked out, once that happens things can change.
We need someone who is anti-DLC, because the DLC are Republican appeasers and clones.
Fear was again the overriding theme of this years election. It drives the economy as well.
Alot of people I like voted for Bush out of fear. The Democrats are almost non-existant outside of the urban areas of Ohio so no one to challenge the status quo(votes).
Media is lazy.
Seriously, the Democrats need to start creating amorphous organizations to give figureheads a bully pulpit.
Who are Dobson and Falwell and why should I care what they say? They aren't elected leaders.
While I'm as pissed as the next Democrat at our leaders' lack of spines, I also recognize that we need more proxies with visibility. Jeebus, I saw Al Sharpton representing the pro-choice side on MTP yesterday. Scary.
Can someone annoint Al Franken a high priest or something so that he can get booked on cable shows?
Fear was again the overriding theme of this years election. It drives the economy as well.
Alot of people I like voted for Bush out of fear. The Democrats are almost non-existant outside of the urban areas of Ohio so no one to challenge the status quo(votes).
Media is lazy.
Seriously, the Democrats need to start creating amorphous organizations to give figureheads a bully pulpit.
Who are Dobson and Falwell and why should I care what they say? They aren't elected leaders.
While I'm as pissed as the next Democrat at our leaders' lack of spines, I also recognize that we need more proxies with visibility. Jeebus, I saw Al Sharpton representing the pro-choice side on MTP yesterday. Scary.
Can someone annoint Al Franken a high priest or something so that he can get booked on cable shows?
Democrats point out the obvious?
Goddamn you funny on mondays!
Democrats point out the obvious?
Goddamn you funny on mondays!
I always wondered what exactly the wording of this question was, because I always vote according to my moral values. That's what voting is to me, an exercise in expressing your moral values and ideals. It's just that my values are American values and not some twisted set of old testement values.
I always wondered what exactly the wording of this question was, because I always vote according to my moral values. That's what voting is to me, an exercise in expressing your moral values and ideals. It's just that my values are American values and not some twisted set of old testement values.
Dammit, I made that "getting out of bed" mistake again, didn't I?
Dammit, I made that "getting out of bed" mistake again, didn't I?
This is obviously a better forum than the Morning Thread for my post. Sorry to those who already read it there.
As there were 227 comments to the post on Advent I wanted to comment here that we need much more of these posts.
Progressives tend to be quiet about their spiritual beliefs because they are private and then our actions, which are public, move from there.
In the new political world we live in, we need to be more public that many of us believe deeply. This post show the power of love that exists in religion or in spirit for those who don't have a specific religion. It's time we shared that.
Fundamentalism is meeting a deep need for spirit in people. We need to show that there are other paths that meet that need for passionate spiritual connection.
And a PS (and a blog whore) a post from a service woman that I put on my blog
livejournal.com/users/deerdancer22,
that also captures this Advent spirit.
For the record I am a Buddhist.
This is obviously a better forum than the Morning Thread for my post. Sorry to those who already read it there.
As there were 227 comments to the post on Advent I wanted to comment here that we need much more of these posts.
Progressives tend to be quiet about their spiritual beliefs because they are private and then our actions, which are public, move from there.
In the new political world we live in, we need to be more public that many of us believe deeply. This post show the power of love that exists in religion or in spirit for those who don't have a specific religion. It's time we shared that.
Fundamentalism is meeting a deep need for spirit in people. We need to show that there are other paths that meet that need for passionate spiritual connection.
And a PS (and a blog whore) a post from a service woman that I put on my blog
livejournal.com/users/deerdancer22,
that also captures this Advent spirit.
For the record I am a Buddhist.
I think the "moral values" vote was in fact important, because it's what got the bigots and homophobes and anti-choice crowd out to vote.
I think the "moral values" vote was in fact important, because it's what got the bigots and homophobes and anti-choice crowd out to vote.
Folks, we just had a major holiday, and Congress is out of town.
I assume the Democrats will be heard from, but right now almost no one is listening.
Folks, we just had a major holiday, and Congress is out of town.
I assume the Democrats will be heard from, but right now almost no one is listening.
emd,
And, yet, MTP was still on yesterday and the Racist Radical Clerics were still on spouting their hatred. And the lone Democrat was apparently Al Sharpton.
emd,
And, yet, MTP was still on yesterday and the Racist Radical Clerics were still on spouting their hatred. And the lone Democrat was apparently Al Sharpton.
Folks, we just had a major holiday, and Congress is out of town.
what better time to sneak in and put tacks on all their chairs?
Folks, we just had a major holiday, and Congress is out of town.
what better time to sneak in and put tacks on all their chairs?
Hardly a day goes by that doesnt evoke irritation, outrage, or astonishment at the media's coloring of the news. The taking up of this "moral values" mantra is case in point. No questioning of the "moral values" crowds take on making Gonzolas head cop after his statement about the Geneva Convertion being quant.
The press inserts their little qualifying "alledgedly unarmed" or "apparently wounded" into the story of the US Marine shooting the unarmed, wounded, Iraq in Fallujah. They explain the election controversy in the Ukraine with a completely straight face and drawing no obvious parallels to our own election debacle. They regularly editorialize the news by inserting comments about the "russian opposition candidate" supporters being bussed in. How do they know this? We don't care. These young street protestors in the Ukraine are young democrats, our street protesters in Miami, New York etc. are anarchists.
Did we ever have a press that reported the news even when it challanged the status quo, the powerful? Is it OK to write about Tiger Company and get a Pulitzer twenty years later? Watergate happened the Pentagon Papers, what is the difference now?
Hardly a day goes by that doesnt evoke irritation, outrage, or astonishment at the media's coloring of the news. The taking up of this "moral values" mantra is case in point. No questioning of the "moral values" crowds take on making Gonzolas head cop after his statement about the Geneva Convertion being quant.
The press inserts their little qualifying "alledgedly unarmed" or "apparently wounded" into the story of the US Marine shooting the unarmed, wounded, Iraq in Fallujah. They explain the election controversy in the Ukraine with a completely straight face and drawing no obvious parallels to our own election debacle. They regularly editorialize the news by inserting comments about the "russian opposition candidate" supporters being bussed in. How do they know this? We don't care. These young street protestors in the Ukraine are young democrats, our street protesters in Miami, New York etc. are anarchists.
Did we ever have a press that reported the news even when it challanged the status quo, the powerful? Is it OK to write about Tiger Company and get a Pulitzer twenty years later? Watergate happened the Pentagon Papers, what is the difference now?
This Week had Floyd Flake and Tony Campolo. Check Punditpap for the details.
I don't know who was on MTP with Sharpton, but got the impression from reading these threads that he gave Falwell as well as he got.
This Week had Floyd Flake and Tony Campolo. Check Punditpap for the details.
I don't know who was on MTP with Sharpton, but got the impression from reading these threads that he gave Falwell as well as he got.
Well, the press has never let a few facts get in the way of a good meme.
And the american public seems to be incapable of thinking.
Well, the press has never let a few facts get in the way of a good meme.
And the american public seems to be incapable of thinking.
What we need to see is an article that ties the drop-off in "moral values" to the Bush Presidency.
What we need to see is an article that ties the drop-off in "moral values" to the Bush Presidency.
As good as he got.
Sorry, need caffeine.
As good as he got.
Sorry, need caffeine.
I don't know who was on MTP with Sharpton, but got the impression from reading these threads that he gave Falwell as well as he got.
Maybe. But Sharpton is treated like a crackpot in most of the media, while Falwell is generally treated with kid gloves. Likewise Dobson.
Why are these idiots given the time of day?
I don't know who was on MTP with Sharpton, but got the impression from reading these threads that he gave Falwell as well as he got.
Maybe. But Sharpton is treated like a crackpot in most of the media, while Falwell is generally treated with kid gloves. Likewise Dobson.
Why are these idiots given the time of day?
I guess those of us without religious beliefs can go fuck ourselves, I suppose.
I guess those of us without religious beliefs can go fuck ourselves, I suppose.
I say let the Republicans claim there fake moral values victory, plenty of glass houses and stones to go around.
Every time I see the freak Falwell's on my TV screen, I give thanks that his mug will become the personification of the republican's "moral values".
I say let the Republicans claim there fake moral values victory, plenty of glass houses and stones to go around.
Every time I see the freak Falwell's on my TV screen, I give thanks that his mug will become the personification of the republican's "moral values".
And even Sharpton wasn't pointing out these figures. Instead, he tried to out-Bible the Racist Radical Clerics. That's fine, but someone needs to point out the same figures as the Economist.
And even Sharpton wasn't pointing out these figures. Instead, he tried to out-Bible the Racist Radical Clerics. That's fine, but someone needs to point out the same figures as the Economist.
What's going on right now is GOOD for us. That's why we shouldn't point out that the percentage of voters citing moral and ethical values as their first priority has gone down.
Look, you just quoted an article that referred to "ayatollahs"of the right. That's got to help us.
What's going on right now is GOOD for us. That's why we shouldn't point out that the percentage of voters citing moral and ethical values as their first priority has gone down.
Look, you just quoted an article that referred to "ayatollahs"of the right. That's got to help us.
maybe I am wrong, but didn't that moral value percentage come from the exit polls? ya know, the one's that we're told are sooooo wrong?
maybe I am wrong, but didn't that moral value percentage come from the exit polls? ya know, the one's that we're told are sooooo wrong?
An End to Victimization
There is no shortage of keen analysis on the left. Thomas Frank had a good take on the Democrats' flailings and failings in flyover country with his What's The Matter With Kansas. Understanding the liberals' inability to frame the debate, George Lakoff tries hard with Don't Think of an Elephant. And now Mel Gilles (via Matt Gross via Atrios) has a sharp analogy to add to the litany: The Democrats are a bunch of battered wives.
Couldn't help but notice. Look at Donna Brazille quiver with lame nervous laughter as Bay Buchanan calls her irrelevant. Watch Chuck Schumer and other Democratic Establishment stiffs cry publicly for their need to appeal to the Heartland. See Dan Rather's mea culpa unravel whatever courage he once had. Yes, these are sad victims in need of help.
With this tacked onto the list, we Dems have a bevy of brilliant analyses. But the truly pathetic case isn't the Democrats' condition; it's the left's chronic prognosis problem. They identify the illness, but they prescribe remedies destined to keep the sick mule on its death bed of rancid hay.
Don't be fooled. We aren't going to rally Kansans by appealing to their economic self-interests through a revival of old time populism. The elephant will not disappear from people's minds just because we mutter the mantras of "effective government" or "broad prosperity," whatever the hell that means. And recognizing we are the "victims" is just going to get us a lifetime lease at the public-aid shelter.
After all the dissecting is done, the fact is plain: Weakness will not win.
Democrats are led by exceptionally weak people, and, despite their angular analytics, the new wave of internal critics don't appear much stronger. The crux of the weakness lies in their language.
Democrats constantly think they need to "appeal" to people. Appeal to a morality of justice and opportunity. Appeal to people's sense of decency or fairness. Become more appealing to rural voters. Appeal their losses in court.
This weak culture of "appeal" will doom us forever to the maternity ward of politics. Maybe that's where the old "nanny state" party feels most comfortable, but if Democrats hope to show Republicans who their daddy is, they better drop a couple stones and focus on one thing: the Fight for Freedom.
Read more at Mule Kicker
An End to Victimization
There is no shortage of keen analysis on the left. Thomas Frank had a good take on the Democrats' flailings and failings in flyover country with his What's The Matter With Kansas. Understanding the liberals' inability to frame the debate, George Lakoff tries hard with Don't Think of an Elephant. And now Mel Gilles (via Matt Gross via Atrios) has a sharp analogy to add to the litany: The Democrats are a bunch of battered wives.
Couldn't help but notice. Look at Donna Brazille quiver with lame nervous laughter as Bay Buchanan calls her irrelevant. Watch Chuck Schumer and other Democratic Establishment stiffs cry publicly for their need to appeal to the Heartland. See Dan Rather's mea culpa unravel whatever courage he once had. Yes, these are sad victims in need of help.
With this tacked onto the list, we Dems have a bevy of brilliant analyses. But the truly pathetic case isn't the Democrats' condition; it's the left's chronic prognosis problem. They identify the illness, but they prescribe remedies destined to keep the sick mule on its death bed of rancid hay.
Don't be fooled. We aren't going to rally Kansans by appealing to their economic self-interests through a revival of old time populism. The elephant will not disappear from people's minds just because we mutter the mantras of "effective government" or "broad prosperity," whatever the hell that means. And recognizing we are the "victims" is just going to get us a lifetime lease at the public-aid shelter.
After all the dissecting is done, the fact is plain: Weakness will not win.
Democrats are led by exceptionally weak people, and, despite their angular analytics, the new wave of internal critics don't appear much stronger. The crux of the weakness lies in their language.
Democrats constantly think they need to "appeal" to people. Appeal to a morality of justice and opportunity. Appeal to people's sense of decency or fairness. Become more appealing to rural voters. Appeal their losses in court.
This weak culture of "appeal" will doom us forever to the maternity ward of politics. Maybe that's where the old "nanny state" party feels most comfortable, but if Democrats hope to show Republicans who their daddy is, they better drop a couple stones and focus on one thing: the Fight for Freedom.
Read more at Mule Kicker
what better time to sneak in and put tacks on all their chairs?
I was thinking 10 penny nails.. or falafel...
what better time to sneak in and put tacks on all their chairs?
I was thinking 10 penny nails.. or falafel...
I have so totally grown to despise Christianity. I grew up in church. My dad was a deacon of an Old Time Religion church. The only thing left of it for me were the old hymnals which when you grow up singing and listening to before and after church services, they become almost something organically a part of you. It was my habit to listen to them every Sunday morning on my drive home from work on an Old Time radio broadcast aired during my drive. They sang them the old way without instrumentals. Yesterday morning, for the first time, I couldn't. It just felt like oppression to me. Really felt sad in a way that's hard to express.
I have so totally grown to despise Christianity. I grew up in church. My dad was a deacon of an Old Time Religion church. The only thing left of it for me were the old hymnals which when you grow up singing and listening to before and after church services, they become almost something organically a part of you. It was my habit to listen to them every Sunday morning on my drive home from work on an Old Time radio broadcast aired during my drive. They sang them the old way without instrumentals. Yesterday morning, for the first time, I couldn't. It just felt like oppression to me. Really felt sad in a way that's hard to express.
mulekicker has a point.
The Democratic party and/or the "liberal movement" lack good, strong, effective leaders. The current contenders impress me little.
A strong leader may be able to take on the so-called-liberal-but-really-corporate-toadie-lap-
dog media and be able to define his own image, rather than spending all his time reacting to and defending from noisy attacks.
Leadership
Media
Memebership
Oh, and coffee.
mulekicker has a point.
The Democratic party and/or the "liberal movement" lack good, strong, effective leaders. The current contenders impress me little.
A strong leader may be able to take on the so-called-liberal-but-really-corporate-toadie-lap-
dog media and be able to define his own image, rather than spending all his time reacting to and defending from noisy attacks.
Leadership
Media
Memebership
Oh, and coffee.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Ins't Chimp cowed/bullied by this religious spin, also? After all, he's got this supposed man-date, and one would think he could bully-pulpit-slap Congress around on passing a more sensible budget and intelligence reform, if he so chose. Congress is now chock-a-block with moralist true believers, so it looks to me like he's in their headlock as bad as the Dems.
Ins't Chimp cowed/bullied by this religious spin, also? After all, he's got this supposed man-date, and one would think he could bully-pulpit-slap Congress around on passing a more sensible budget and intelligence reform, if he so chose. Congress is now chock-a-block with moralist true believers, so it looks to me like he's in their headlock as bad as the Dems.
Pollen Boy,
If they're not already embarrassed beyond all belief, I think we're talking about people with no shame.
Pollen Boy,
If they're not already embarrassed beyond all belief, I think we're talking about people with no shame.
Jim Wallis, editor-in-chief of Sojourners Magazine was on Meet the Press yesterday. According to Allen Brill at The Garden Gate (formerly The Right Christians), a liberal Christian website, Sojourners is on our side. And from what I read in this article, he held his own on MTP:
http://tinyurl.com/6ncqj
Jim Wallis, editor-in-chief of Sojourners Magazine was on Meet the Press yesterday. According to Allen Brill at The Garden Gate (formerly The Right Christians), a liberal Christian website, Sojourners is on our side. And from what I read in this article, he held his own on MTP:
http://tinyurl.com/6ncqj
I think the problem is is that people don't know what's going on. If they knew as much as we all mostly know, it would be democrats in landslide after landslide. The problem is getting the information out to them since polticians are no longer willing to work on their behalf regardless of their ignorance of the facts. We need a major network like CNN. We need to begin cultivating democratic candidates on a local level all the way up.
I think the problem is is that people don't know what's going on. If they knew as much as we all mostly know, it would be democrats in landslide after landslide. The problem is getting the information out to them since polticians are no longer willing to work on their behalf regardless of their ignorance of the facts. We need a major network like CNN. We need to begin cultivating democratic candidates on a local level all the way up.
Hecate,
Of course you're right, they have no shame. But if Falwell thinks that the recent election somehow gives him a platform for a desperate attempt at greatness, he's likely to make a complete doofus of himself (again) in the process. It's an M.O. or something of his. I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
We should be glad he represents the right.
Hecate,
Of course you're right, they have no shame. But if Falwell thinks that the recent election somehow gives him a platform for a desperate attempt at greatness, he's likely to make a complete doofus of himself (again) in the process. It's an M.O. or something of his. I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
We should be glad he represents the right.
But quite frankly, I really don't think we have time.
But quite frankly, I really don't think we have time.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Falwell has already done this ten times over. What could be more ambarassing than his post-9/11 comment that this country deserved the terrorist attack?
The problem is that none of the dumb-ass things he says really does him much damage because the media gives him what amounts to a free ride.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Falwell has already done this ten times over. What could be more ambarassing than his post-9/11 comment that this country deserved the terrorist attack?
The problem is that none of the dumb-ass things he says really does him much damage because the media gives him what amounts to a free ride.
where is Larry Flynt when you need him?
where is Larry Flynt when you need him?
Actually, one thing that annoys me is that Democrats claim that the Republicans are to blame for the excesses of the FCC. Yes, Bush can't run away from the Powell nomination, but Powell hasn't operated in a vacuum.
A couple people asked "Where are the Democrats?" Well, I'll tell you where they are. They're on the floor of the Senate giving "Me, too" speeches about how the airwaves have to be cleaned up, and casting votes to raise "indecency" fines. And when broadcasters turn to Democrats to say that the FCC is out of control, the Democrats reply by saying, "Hey, if we can use this indecency hysteria to advance our delusional 'media consolidation' gripes, we're all for it."
It would be a little more credible for you guys to get all indignant about the Powell FCC if your candidate had said one word about it during the recent campaign. It would be more credible if a couple of Democrat Senators would get up one morning, walk out on to the Senate floor, and defend Howard Stern.
Neither major party will significantly clip the wings of the FCC because BOTH parties rely on it, or the threat of it, to keep broadcasters in line. Neither party wants broadcast media to be as adversarial to them as print or internet media, and the FCC and the licensing process is their best guarantee that won't happen.
Actually, one thing that annoys me is that Democrats claim that the Republicans are to blame for the excesses of the FCC. Yes, Bush can't run away from the Powell nomination, but Powell hasn't operated in a vacuum.
A couple people asked "Where are the Democrats?" Well, I'll tell you where they are. They're on the floor of the Senate giving "Me, too" speeches about how the airwaves have to be cleaned up, and casting votes to raise "indecency" fines. And when broadcasters turn to Democrats to say that the FCC is out of control, the Democrats reply by saying, "Hey, if we can use this indecency hysteria to advance our delusional 'media consolidation' gripes, we're all for it."
It would be a little more credible for you guys to get all indignant about the Powell FCC if your candidate had said one word about it during the recent campaign. It would be more credible if a couple of Democrat Senators would get up one morning, walk out on to the Senate floor, and defend Howard Stern.
Neither major party will significantly clip the wings of the FCC because BOTH parties rely on it, or the threat of it, to keep broadcasters in line. Neither party wants broadcast media to be as adversarial to them as print or internet media, and the FCC and the licensing process is their best guarantee that won't happen.
Incog; Maybe CBS could be had for a fair price...
Incog; Maybe CBS could be had for a fair price...
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Pollen Boy
I don't think Falwell's absurd pronouncements have hurt him at all. He's still booked by the media all the time. The wingers look straight past them blowing and going, ripping and running without any sense of embarassment.
Let the jokers like Falwell have their say. Remember him attacking the teletubby Tinky WInky for being gay? Given enough time, he's bound to do or say something that will completely embarrass the right wing he represents.
Pollen Boy
I don't think Falwell's absurd pronouncements have hurt him at all. He's still booked by the media all the time. The wingers look straight past them blowing and going, ripping and running without any sense of embarassment.
I have so totally grown to despise Christianity.
I don't despise Christianity, but I am angry with my church because my pastor voted for Bush and refused to read the info I sent him to help him make an informed decision, rather than a "gut" decision. I see him and his church as symbolic of what's wrong with Americans. They are too uninformed and too lazy to check out the facts, finding it easier to call me a looney tune and a conspiracy theorist. Had my pastor come back with solid, fact-based reasons why he voted for Bush, I could accept that, although you and I know there aren't any facts about anything good Bush has done for this country. My pastor believes that Democrats are radicals -- he actually called John Kerry is an extremist!
I have been told, though, that other people in the church have been turned off by this pastor's open support of the Prez, so all is not lost.
I figure it doesn't matter where I worship, all churches are pretty much going to be the same. So, I only actively support very few of its programs.
I have so totally grown to despise Christianity.
I don't despise Christianity, but I am angry with my church because my pastor voted for Bush and refused to read the info I sent him to help him make an informed decision, rather than a "gut" decision. I see him and his church as symbolic of what's wrong with Americans. They are too uninformed and too lazy to check out the facts, finding it easier to call me a looney tune and a conspiracy theorist. Had my pastor come back with solid, fact-based reasons why he voted for Bush, I could accept that, although you and I know there aren't any facts about anything good Bush has done for this country. My pastor believes that Democrats are radicals -- he actually called John Kerry is an extremist!
I have been told, though, that other people in the church have been turned off by this pastor's open support of the Prez, so all is not lost.
I figure it doesn't matter where I worship, all churches are pretty much going to be the same. So, I only actively support very few of its programs.
Oh, but NPRs own Kokie Roberts told me we are a nation of church-goers who voted for the church-going George Bush because he is always going to church.
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Oh, but NPRs own Kokie Roberts told me we are a nation of church-goers who voted for the church-going George Bush because he is always going to church.
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Yesterday morning, for the first time, I couldn't. It just felt like oppression to me. Really felt sad in a way that's hard to express.
It's always felt like oppression to me. I don't know why, but it has.
As for Falwell, he's made an ass of himself a million times over and no one cares. I can't tell you the times I've heard him dismiss evolution. And yet he continues to be booked on national TV because people still follow him. They're as much asses as he is.
So don't hold your breath that media will suddenly wake up and say, "what a buffoon!"
It's a little late for that.
Yesterday morning, for the first time, I couldn't. It just felt like oppression to me. Really felt sad in a way that's hard to express.
It's always felt like oppression to me. I don't know why, but it has.
As for Falwell, he's made an ass of himself a million times over and no one cares. I can't tell you the times I've heard him dismiss evolution. And yet he continues to be booked on national TV because people still follow him. They're as much asses as he is.
So don't hold your breath that media will suddenly wake up and say, "what a buffoon!"
It's a little late for that.
Hecate - You go. I blogged this yesterday but as it usually goes when I blog something and it is blogged here, it's done better here.
I so agree with Rich about this. This is the most straightfoward statement about this shit I have read from anyone in the media yet.
Rich is right.
Hecate - You go. I blogged this yesterday but as it usually goes when I blog something and it is blogged here, it's done better here.
I so agree with Rich about this. This is the most straightfoward statement about this shit I have read from anyone in the media yet.
Rich is right.
I am sick unto death at this "moral values" crap. I'm not a minister, or a practicing anything, but I had a Catholic education right through college. Let's see how we're doing on the 10 Commandments our red brothers spout on about:
1. No false God...except perhaps Mammon.
2. Only take the Lord's name in vain if you're bashing gays or propping up illegal wars.
3.Can't keep holy any day that might affect profits.
4. Take no advice from dad if it conflicts with neocon agenda.
5. Only kill brown people...and never grant clemency to someone on death row.
6. Adultery? Remember, divorce doesn't disolve marriage in the eyes of the church. Lot's of the big A out there, w of w/o said caveat.
7. Steal whatever you can...don't interpret thsi one too broadly.
8. Lie about eveything.
9. See #6.
10. See #7.
I love the smell of hypocracy in the AM...
I am sick unto death at this "moral values" crap. I'm not a minister, or a practicing anything, but I had a Catholic education right through college. Let's see how we're doing on the 10 Commandments our red brothers spout on about:
1. No false God...except perhaps Mammon.
2. Only take the Lord's name in vain if you're bashing gays or propping up illegal wars.
3.Can't keep holy any day that might affect profits.
4. Take no advice from dad if it conflicts with neocon agenda.
5. Only kill brown people...and never grant clemency to someone on death row.
6. Adultery? Remember, divorce doesn't disolve marriage in the eyes of the church. Lot's of the big A out there, w of w/o said caveat.
7. Steal whatever you can...don't interpret thsi one too broadly.
8. Lie about eveything.
9. See #6.
10. See #7.
I love the smell of hypocracy in the AM...
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It's Cheney's FauxOutragegate all over again.
It's Cheney's FauxOutragegate all over again.
Tena,
It's just amazing to me that these crazies have claimed some kind of victory out of these figures. It's just a flat-out lie, but no one is calling them on their lie.
Tena,
It's just amazing to me that these crazies have claimed some kind of victory out of these figures. It's just a flat-out lie, but no one is calling them on their lie.
"Moral values" is a redundant phrase. Morality means values. Anybody who doesn't apply their moral values to voting is by definition, depraved. Ergo, the poll question is idiotic.
I know my good friend Robert M. Jeffers is not going to like this, but in my view, the most urgent priority for people who want to discover morality is to repudiate religion. Religion is about people like Falwell and Dobson telling their followers what to think. And even if it's the wise and altruistic RMJ telling them, they're still being told. We need to find our own way. It's up to us, in consultation with our friends.
"Moral values" is a redundant phrase. Morality means values. Anybody who doesn't apply their moral values to voting is by definition, depraved. Ergo, the poll question is idiotic.
I know my good friend Robert M. Jeffers is not going to like this, but in my view, the most urgent priority for people who want to discover morality is to repudiate religion. Religion is about people like Falwell and Dobson telling their followers what to think. And even if it's the wise and altruistic RMJ telling them, they're still being told. We need to find our own way. It's up to us, in consultation with our friends.
Incognito, you say "we need a major network like CNN."
Let me remind you that on typical good days, CNN never reaches more than two or three million Americans. And these are Americans who actually want to be informed.
Other than that, sure--it'd be loverly to have more actual clout in the media, rather than just a majority of the steno-pool peons voting Democrat but reporting "neutrally."
Incognito, you say "we need a major network like CNN."
Let me remind you that on typical good days, CNN never reaches more than two or three million Americans. And these are Americans who actually want to be informed.
Other than that, sure--it'd be loverly to have more actual clout in the media, rather than just a majority of the steno-pool peons voting Democrat but reporting "neutrally."
fourlegsgood - You know, it doesn't matter if no one in the media thinks Falwell is a buffoon. The people of the country can make that determination for themselves and I think they largely do. Falwell is one of those smarmy fucks who are loved only by the terminally fucked up.
What Rich is saying is right - the media has taken this values thing and is milking it. That's why Falwell is all over the TV. It isn't that people are clamoring to hear and see the fat bastard, it's the media.
People are not as stupid as the media thinks they are. The country is not populated by a bunch of uptight church ladies. It's the fucking media and the stupid politicians who pay more attention to polls, maps and "experts" than they pay to us, their constituents.
fourlegsgood - You know, it doesn't matter if no one in the media thinks Falwell is a buffoon. The people of the country can make that determination for themselves and I think they largely do. Falwell is one of those smarmy fucks who are loved only by the terminally fucked up.
What Rich is saying is right - the media has taken this values thing and is milking it. That's why Falwell is all over the TV. It isn't that people are clamoring to hear and see the fat bastard, it's the media.
People are not as stupid as the media thinks they are. The country is not populated by a bunch of uptight church ladies. It's the fucking media and the stupid politicians who pay more attention to polls, maps and "experts" than they pay to us, their constituents.
Hecate;
There's no one to do the calling!
The so-called liberal media isn't of course; it's squarely in the pocket of the corporatists.
There's just us.
Hecate;
There's no one to do the calling!
The so-called liberal media isn't of course; it's squarely in the pocket of the corporatists.
There's just us.
Hecate - See my comment to fourlegsgood. This is a media phenomenon that Rove cooked up and they swallowed whole.
The problem with the Dems is that they look at the map and think they are going to lose their jobs unless they get on this non-existent band wagon.
They need to get their heads out of their asses and pay attention to real life.
Hecate - See my comment to fourlegsgood. This is a media phenomenon that Rove cooked up and they swallowed whole.
The problem with the Dems is that they look at the map and think they are going to lose their jobs unless they get on this non-existent band wagon.
They need to get their heads out of their asses and pay attention to real life.
The Democrats are floundering because they stand for the PAST.
We want to keep the status quo of previous years. The GOP wants to go even further into the past, to over 100 years ago type past. The mythical slavery era past.
Americans are being dragged into the 21st Century and we don't like it one bit. The thing we all want forever that is now in the past is cheap oil and cheap energy. So long as the people, the parties and the media agree that cheap oil is the goal of all Americans, we will have war, a weak dollar and a dim future. The future is NO CHEAP OIL FOREVER.
This, like many other economic issues, was not topic number one during the election! It is tied intimately into 9/11 and bin Laden, this oil stuff, and although 9/11 was talked about a lot, not a peep about oil or bin Laden!
The Democratic party not only must have a position about bin Laden....TALK ABOUT HIM EVERY DAY....the party has to talk about oil, too. EVERY DAY.
When the gasbags want to talk about morals, talk about bin Laden and oil! It is SO SIMPLE. If all Democrats could do this, the talk in the nation will turn to the real matters at hand.
The Democrats are floundering because they stand for the PAST.
We want to keep the status quo of previous years. The GOP wants to go even further into the past, to over 100 years ago type past. The mythical slavery era past.
Americans are being dragged into the 21st Century and we don't like it one bit. The thing we all want forever that is now in the past is cheap oil and cheap energy. So long as the people, the parties and the media agree that cheap oil is the goal of all Americans, we will have war, a weak dollar and a dim future. The future is NO CHEAP OIL FOREVER.
This, like many other economic issues, was not topic number one during the election! It is tied intimately into 9/11 and bin Laden, this oil stuff, and although 9/11 was talked about a lot, not a peep about oil or bin Laden!
The Democratic party not only must have a position about bin Laden....TALK ABOUT HIM EVERY DAY....the party has to talk about oil, too. EVERY DAY.
When the gasbags want to talk about morals, talk about bin Laden and oil! It is SO SIMPLE. If all Democrats could do this, the talk in the nation will turn to the real matters at hand.
I'm not too optimistic for my country this morning.
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Phredd | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 8:01 am
According to Gary Bauer, it qain't your country anymore Phredd. Whassamatta, you got adhd? You ain't shit anymore pal,unless you got the official Jesus stamp on your passport...Ida thought youda figgered that out by now...
I'm not too optimistic for my country this morning.
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Phredd | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 8:01 am
According to Gary Bauer, it qain't your country anymore Phredd. Whassamatta, you got adhd? You ain't shit anymore pal,unless you got the official Jesus stamp on your passport...Ida thought youda figgered that out by now...
cervantes - Would you consider that people don't have to reject religion altogether, but reject these rich, oil, Morality Merchants?
People will not reject their spirituality and that is a losing path to go down. But people do understand hypocrisy and large numbers of people do. Most people dislike this kind of bullshit morality.
They just do.
I keep citing this and I'm ignored - but when Fred Phelps rolled into Oklahoma a week or so ago to raise a stink about the young guy who lives in a small town there who is publicly gay and got involved with a gay rights group , the town told Phelps to get lost. The Baptist preacher at the kid's mother's church told Phelps to get lost from the pulpit.
Y'all buy into these ideas as thoroughly as Rove intends. The country is not full of a bunch of homophobic bigoted assholes. It just isn't.
cervantes - Would you consider that people don't have to reject religion altogether, but reject these rich, oil, Morality Merchants?
People will not reject their spirituality and that is a losing path to go down. But people do understand hypocrisy and large numbers of people do. Most people dislike this kind of bullshit morality.
They just do.
I keep citing this and I'm ignored - but when Fred Phelps rolled into Oklahoma a week or so ago to raise a stink about the young guy who lives in a small town there who is publicly gay and got involved with a gay rights group , the town told Phelps to get lost. The Baptist preacher at the kid's mother's church told Phelps to get lost from the pulpit.
Y'all buy into these ideas as thoroughly as Rove intends. The country is not full of a bunch of homophobic bigoted assholes. It just isn't.
Forget all the moral values crap, Kerry really won.
Forget all the moral values crap, Kerry really won.
The Party can't have "position papers" and then just leave it at that, we have to change the chat, change the view, change the parameters.
To do this, we have to talk about the things we want to talk about, no matter what. Just like I refuse to talk about religion or morals (both are PRIVATE MATTERS) I talk about public matters like the dollar, the debts, oil, war.
Kerry was a bad candidate because he didn't want to talk about why he gave war privilages to the dictator, he didn't say, "we are in Iraq so we can get oil by force or trickery" he didn't say, "stealing oil is bad for America, bad for the world" he didn't say, "oil is a finite resource we can't afford to waste, this is our only chance to build a world that doesn't need oil so much, we should preserve world oil supplies so our great grandchildren can have some".
Nope. He, like Bush, pretends oil is eternal and SUVs are normal and we can waste it to our heart's content forever.
This is dead wrong and pissed me off. The Hubbert Oil Peak is here, today. The clock is ticking louder and louder.
The Party can't have "position papers" and then just leave it at that, we have to change the chat, change the view, change the parameters.
To do this, we have to talk about the things we want to talk about, no matter what. Just like I refuse to talk about religion or morals (both are PRIVATE MATTERS) I talk about public matters like the dollar, the debts, oil, war.
Kerry was a bad candidate because he didn't want to talk about why he gave war privilages to the dictator, he didn't say, "we are in Iraq so we can get oil by force or trickery" he didn't say, "stealing oil is bad for America, bad for the world" he didn't say, "oil is a finite resource we can't afford to waste, this is our only chance to build a world that doesn't need oil so much, we should preserve world oil supplies so our great grandchildren can have some".
Nope. He, like Bush, pretends oil is eternal and SUVs are normal and we can waste it to our heart's content forever.
This is dead wrong and pissed me off. The Hubbert Oil Peak is here, today. The clock is ticking louder and louder.
should have been "rich, oily, Morality Merchants..."
should have been "rich, oily, Morality Merchants..."
Clear evidence of vote fraud in Ohio.
Clear evidence of vote fraud in Ohio.
"Moral values" is a redundant phrase. Morality means values. Anybody who doesn't apply their moral values to voting is by definition, depraved.
I've thought that "moral" is biblical and "values" is more secular. I think it's been more winger framing of an issue with Orwellian double-speak putting the two words together melding them together and spreading it widely. Remember folks, they have the best ad folks money can buy who think up the framing everyday in those spooky so-called "think-tanks" there on K Street in Washington DC.
"Moral values" is a redundant phrase. Morality means values. Anybody who doesn't apply their moral values to voting is by definition, depraved.
I've thought that "moral" is biblical and "values" is more secular. I think it's been more winger framing of an issue with Orwellian double-speak putting the two words together melding them together and spreading it widely. Remember folks, they have the best ad folks money can buy who think up the framing everyday in those spooky so-called "think-tanks" there on K Street in Washington DC.
Elaine - Kerry was not a bad candidate. Damn it. In the first place, he won the election, IMO. In the second place, even if we can't prove that, he still got the 2d largest number of votes in history. He ran a good campaign.
Elaine - Kerry was not a bad candidate. Damn it. In the first place, he won the election, IMO. In the second place, even if we can't prove that, he still got the 2d largest number of votes in history. He ran a good campaign.
Again, the Democrats have to appear in public with those irritating and very important GRAPHS AND CHARTS. The ones showing how oil is at a peak now and there ain't no more huge gusher fields in our future. Graphs showing the direct connection of the dying dollar and the deficit.
All sorts of important pictures clearly showing what is going wrong.
Again, the Democrats have to appear in public with those irritating and very important GRAPHS AND CHARTS. The ones showing how oil is at a peak now and there ain't no more huge gusher fields in our future. Graphs showing the direct connection of the dying dollar and the deficit.
All sorts of important pictures clearly showing what is going wrong.
OT
Anybody else feel the need for community right now? My husband and I drove past a Unitarian church yesterday, heard they were "progressive". We didn't go, but we are thinking about it. We are both refugees from conservative families.
OT
Anybody else feel the need for community right now? My husband and I drove past a Unitarian church yesterday, heard they were "progressive". We didn't go, but we are thinking about it. We are both refugees from conservative families.
HAW HAW HAW! This is GREAT. I can't wait until some mook brings up the whole "This election was about Moral Values"-thing with me... I'm printing this out so I can quote verbatim. That is too cool. Great find.
HAW HAW HAW! This is GREAT. I can't wait until some mook brings up the whole "This election was about Moral Values"-thing with me... I'm printing this out so I can quote verbatim. That is too cool. Great find.
texas - why would you even ask a bunch of people you don't know about what you should do about community and worship in your life?
texas - why would you even ask a bunch of people you don't know about what you should do about community and worship in your life?
RMJ: *...the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power*
Do they ever. They tried to beat us about the head and shoulders with the Clenis and registered a deep, sanctimonius disappointment when we didn't care.
I think the distinguishing characteristic of the media today is their collective laziness. It's easier to swing the hammer for the powers that be than to challenge them. The "Woodstein" style of investigative journalism is dead, dead, dead. They are even ignoring the low-hanging fruit, leaving it for topical comedians to scoop up.
RMJ: *...the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power*
Do they ever. They tried to beat us about the head and shoulders with the Clenis and registered a deep, sanctimonius disappointment when we didn't care.
I think the distinguishing characteristic of the media today is their collective laziness. It's easier to swing the hammer for the powers that be than to challenge them. The "Woodstein" style of investigative journalism is dead, dead, dead. They are even ignoring the low-hanging fruit, leaving it for topical comedians to scoop up.
Maybe. But Sharpton is treated like a crackpot in most of the media, while Falwell is generally treated with kid gloves. Likewise Dobson.
Why are these idiots given the time of day?
Because they're white, and Sharpton is not.
Do you remember the clip on the Daily Show last week, where George Stephanopolous dared to ask whether Radical Cleric James Dobson might actually be behaving in a not-entirely-Christian manner? Dobson got in a stupendous huff about it and acted like he (and he alone) could define what was Christian and what was not.
These goons have such inflated egos that it only takes the mildest needling to make them pop. We need to ridicule them publicly, loudly, at every opportunity. I wonder if someone would volunteer to follow one of these guys around and do a parody of them at every location they went to...
Maybe. But Sharpton is treated like a crackpot in most of the media, while Falwell is generally treated with kid gloves. Likewise Dobson.
Why are these idiots given the time of day?
Because they're white, and Sharpton is not.
Do you remember the clip on the Daily Show last week, where George Stephanopolous dared to ask whether Radical Cleric James Dobson might actually be behaving in a not-entirely-Christian manner? Dobson got in a stupendous huff about it and acted like he (and he alone) could define what was Christian and what was not.
These goons have such inflated egos that it only takes the mildest needling to make them pop. We need to ridicule them publicly, loudly, at every opportunity. I wonder if someone would volunteer to follow one of these guys around and do a parody of them at every location they went to...
The sheeple will renounce democracy, and all its associated protections, virtues and values, before they turn from their abject worship of talking snakes, chatting shrubbery, and virgin birth...fucking morons.
This is not my country anymore, folks.
The sheeple will renounce democracy, and all its associated protections, virtues and values, before they turn from their abject worship of talking snakes, chatting shrubbery, and virgin birth...fucking morons.
This is not my country anymore, folks.
The House recently passed legislation drastically increasing indecency fines on broadcasters. It passed this legislation 391-22.
The Sentate passed its version of the increase 99-1.
Based on these vote numbers, BOTH parties are parties of censorship. If you are a registered Democrat, you do NOT belong to the anti-censorship party. You are every bit as much to blame for the asinine Janet Jackson hype and STUPID "Monday Night Football" argument as Republicans are.
It boggles my mind that VIRTUALLY EVERY DEMOCRAT votes for the Patriot Act, and then you people act like it's a Republican problem. VIRTUALLY EVERY DEMOCRAT votes to bring the FCC back to the 50's, and then you people act like it's a Republican problem.
The House recently passed legislation drastically increasing indecency fines on broadcasters. It passed this legislation 391-22.
The Sentate passed its version of the increase 99-1.
Based on these vote numbers, BOTH parties are parties of censorship. If you are a registered Democrat, you do NOT belong to the anti-censorship party. You are every bit as much to blame for the asinine Janet Jackson hype and STUPID "Monday Night Football" argument as Republicans are.
It boggles my mind that VIRTUALLY EVERY DEMOCRAT votes for the Patriot Act, and then you people act like it's a Republican problem. VIRTUALLY EVERY DEMOCRAT votes to bring the FCC back to the 50's, and then you people act like it's a Republican problem.
I believe Kansas City actually voted Blue, it was rural Missouri that voted Red (unless their votes were padded as well). I think the "moral values" argument is a load of Rove crap, intended to change the subject, give an ego boost to the Christian right while simultaneously de-moralizing Dems (the Christian left?). How much time has been spent on this by both sides? It's very hard for me to argue about how and why we lost, when deep down I don't think we did.
I believe Kansas City actually voted Blue, it was rural Missouri that voted Red (unless their votes were padded as well). I think the "moral values" argument is a load of Rove crap, intended to change the subject, give an ego boost to the Christian right while simultaneously de-moralizing Dems (the Christian left?). How much time has been spent on this by both sides? It's very hard for me to argue about how and why we lost, when deep down I don't think we did.
The moral values stuff is nonsense. I think in polling it's the equivalent of "none of the above." If you can't (or won't) give a reason why you're voting the way you are, just say "moral values" and everybody goes away.
The problem is that the bible-thumpers latch onto these bogus numbers and claim that there now exists proof positive that the American public is eager to embrace creationism, flat earth, loving-Jesus slaughter of brown people, etc., etc. Maybe they're right, but the "moral values" polling b.s. sure doesn't prove it.
The moral values stuff is nonsense. I think in polling it's the equivalent of "none of the above." If you can't (or won't) give a reason why you're voting the way you are, just say "moral values" and everybody goes away.
The problem is that the bible-thumpers latch onto these bogus numbers and claim that there now exists proof positive that the American public is eager to embrace creationism, flat earth, loving-Jesus slaughter of brown people, etc., etc. Maybe they're right, but the "moral values" polling b.s. sure doesn't prove it.
Damn you reality-based liberals.
Damn you to hell!
Damn you reality-based liberals.
Damn you to hell!
What Robert Jeffers said a little upthread:
"This isn't about "moral values." It's the same old club, picked up once again as a way of wielding power. And the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power."
Thank you. You are exactly correct.
What Robert Jeffers said a little upthread:
"This isn't about "moral values." It's the same old club, picked up once again as a way of wielding power. And the media loves to be on the arm-wielding end of power."
Thank you. You are exactly correct.
Tena
I should have asked if anyone else was a Unitarian out there. Maybe this is the wrong place to ask such "personal" questions. My bad,LOL.
Tena
I should have asked if anyone else was a Unitarian out there. Maybe this is the wrong place to ask such "personal" questions. My bad,LOL.
God, even this morning on CNN, Soledad was interviewing 2 ministers from the deep South regarding Alabama's segregation law...
All of the sudden, at least since the election, conservative preachers are the "new" rock stars of the US.
Also, Incognito, Hecate, and anyone else following the Matthew Shepard story on 20/20, here's a link ~ the response posted on the Matthew Shepard Foundation Webpage by his parents:
http://www.matthewshepard.org/
20..._statement.html
Pretty sad.
It's hard work being back to work...I need an attitude readjustment stat!
God, even this morning on CNN, Soledad was interviewing 2 ministers from the deep South regarding Alabama's segregation law...
All of the sudden, at least since the election, conservative preachers are the "new" rock stars of the US.
Also, Incognito, Hecate, and anyone else following the Matthew Shepard story on 20/20, here's a link ~ the response posted on the Matthew Shepard Foundation Webpage by his parents:
http://www.matthewshepard.org/
20..._statement.html
Pretty sad.
It's hard work being back to work...I need an attitude readjustment stat!
And just to echo the Left Behind thread from a few days ago, they see us "screeching and howling" when judgement comes. Not screaming and crying, like humans might act.
Screeching and howling.
They see us as animals.
And just to echo the Left Behind thread from a few days ago, they see us "screeching and howling" when judgement comes. Not screaming and crying, like humans might act.
Screeching and howling.
They see us as animals.
texas,
I'm not a Unitarian, but have friends who are. Try them out; if you don't like it you don't have to go back. We all need community -- I find a lot of community feeling here at Eschaton.
texas,
I'm not a Unitarian, but have friends who are. Try them out; if you don't like it you don't have to go back. We all need community -- I find a lot of community feeling here at Eschaton.
Anybody else feel the need for community right now? My husband and I drove past a Unitarian church yesterday, heard they were "progressive". We didn't go, but we are thinking about it. We are both refugees from conservative families.
texas | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 9:29 am | #
Texas, you should by all means visit that UU congregation. Worst case, it's a waste of an hour of your time. Best case, you've just found an outstanding opportunity to network and to worship in a dignified, inclusive fashion.
Anybody else feel the need for community right now? My husband and I drove past a Unitarian church yesterday, heard they were "progressive". We didn't go, but we are thinking about it. We are both refugees from conservative families.
texas | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 9:29 am | #
Texas, you should by all means visit that UU congregation. Worst case, it's a waste of an hour of your time. Best case, you've just found an outstanding opportunity to network and to worship in a dignified, inclusive fashion.
Ya know why the Amendment to the Alabama Constitution failed?
Cuz it would have removed the segregation/apartheid stipulation that all children are NOT entitled to equal educational opportunity.
Ya know why the Amendment to the Alabama Constitution failed?
Cuz it would have removed the segregation/apartheid stipulation that all children are NOT entitled to equal educational opportunity.
Goddamn facts!
-
Goddamn facts!
-
Hecate and Bunker buster-
Thanks. Exactly the kind of response I expect from the people here. Hopefully my family will find some like-minded people out there.
Hecate and Bunker buster-
Thanks. Exactly the kind of response I expect from the people here. Hopefully my family will find some like-minded people out there.
Robert - what is disconcerting to me in the extreme is that no matter how many times you or I say this, and no matter how many times circumstances prove it, people still are buying the idea, here on the left, that half the country is just like Falwell and loves the guy.
People on both sides of this whole nonissue are continuing to make it an issue. From one side people are saying: we beat you on morality because you lefties don't have any. From the other, people are saying: this country is full of a bunch of fundie morons.
Both positions are extreme and are adhered to by people who refuse to see what is really going on. What is really going on, IMO, is that Rove is busy making it look like Bush has a mandate for his radical agenda. And people on both sides are buying it.
And cutting their own throats in the process.
Robert - what is disconcerting to me in the extreme is that no matter how many times you or I say this, and no matter how many times circumstances prove it, people still are buying the idea, here on the left, that half the country is just like Falwell and loves the guy.
People on both sides of this whole nonissue are continuing to make it an issue. From one side people are saying: we beat you on morality because you lefties don't have any. From the other, people are saying: this country is full of a bunch of fundie morons.
Both positions are extreme and are adhered to by people who refuse to see what is really going on. What is really going on, IMO, is that Rove is busy making it look like Bush has a mandate for his radical agenda. And people on both sides are buying it.
And cutting their own throats in the process.
20/20 has sacrificed years of professional journalistic ethics and values for a stab at revisionist history ... and ratings.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
HAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
HoooHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Man, some people are dumber than dog-shit, aren't they?
What the fuck did these folks expect? Honesty?
These are the Corporate State Media, folks...Who the fuck do they think they are kidding....http://www.matthewshepard.org/
2020_statement.html
20/20 has sacrificed years of professional journalistic ethics and values for a stab at revisionist history ... and ratings.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
HAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
HoooHahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Man, some people are dumber than dog-shit, aren't they?
What the fuck did these folks expect? Honesty?
These are the Corporate State Media, folks...Who the fuck do they think they are kidding....http://www.matthewshepard.org/
2020_statement.html
Tena,
I think these figures show how correct you are. Americans aren't becoming more intollerant. Sure, some always have been and will continue to be, but when 40% of people voted based on moral issues, Bill Clinton won. When 35% of people voted based on moral issues, Al Gore won more votes than George Bush. When 22% of people voted based on moral issues, Bush won -- assuming that he wasn't Diebolded into place. Don't tell me that the religious right has some lock on "morals" or that they can deliver an election.
Tena,
I think these figures show how correct you are. Americans aren't becoming more intollerant. Sure, some always have been and will continue to be, but when 40% of people voted based on moral issues, Bill Clinton won. When 35% of people voted based on moral issues, Al Gore won more votes than George Bush. When 22% of people voted based on moral issues, Bush won -- assuming that he wasn't Diebolded into place. Don't tell me that the religious right has some lock on "morals" or that they can deliver an election.
Konopelli, I think they did expect honesty.
Konopelli, I think they did expect honesty.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
Fundie churchgoers love that, though, because it makes them feel both benevolent & superior. And, let's face it, powerful, like they're speaking for God. The private penitence of Catholicism and the liturgical (and undefined) confessions of other mainline faiths are way too discreet for fundamentalists... there's no thrill, no place for smugness, no humiliation to enjoy.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
Fundie churchgoers love that, though, because it makes them feel both benevolent & superior. And, let's face it, powerful, like they're speaking for God. The private penitence of Catholicism and the liturgical (and undefined) confessions of other mainline faiths are way too discreet for fundamentalists... there's no thrill, no place for smugness, no humiliation to enjoy.
assuming that he wasn't Diebolded into place
I have the feeling that is exactly what did happen.
I've been feeling depressed. First time in quite a while. I think the reality of the election is settling in. It'll be a struggle ~ 4 more years of this shit.
assuming that he wasn't Diebolded into place
I have the feeling that is exactly what did happen.
I've been feeling depressed. First time in quite a while. I think the reality of the election is settling in. It'll be a struggle ~ 4 more years of this shit.
Fundies are addicted to forgiving their own.
Fundies are addicted to forgiving their own.
But at least we now know what Rove's past cryptic pronouncements of the no-show at the voting booth by millions of fundies was all about now. Seems the rest turned out this time with the help of Diebold. Glad that's cleared up.
Give me a break. A fundie not voting? They could get hit by a MACK Truck and what's left of their severed arm would crawl to the voting booth.
But at least we now know what Rove's past cryptic pronouncements of the no-show at the voting booth by millions of fundies was all about now. Seems the rest turned out this time with the help of Diebold. Glad that's cleared up.
Give me a break. A fundie not voting? They could get hit by a MACK Truck and what's left of their severed arm would crawl to the voting booth.
Vicki:
I think they did expect honesty...
One question: Why?
Vicki:
I think they did expect honesty...
One question: Why?
Kerry was a MUZZLED candidate. He saw how Dean was savaged.
We can't let fear muzzle us. This is way too vital, the things the media doesn't want us to talk about. The media loves "moral" chat because this increases the sexual/lust parts of the population and allows the media to tittillate us even more, sets up interest in all those sex/lust/death shows like those morgue shows that are proliferating like crazy.
Kerry was a MUZZLED candidate. He saw how Dean was savaged.
We can't let fear muzzle us. This is way too vital, the things the media doesn't want us to talk about. The media loves "moral" chat because this increases the sexual/lust parts of the population and allows the media to tittillate us even more, sets up interest in all those sex/lust/death shows like those morgue shows that are proliferating like crazy.
Vicki Stein,
Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006.
Vicki Stein,
Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006.
Konopelli ~
naivete.
Konopelli ~
naivete.
Hecate - Thank you. I'm convinced this is so because it is the reality I live in.
I know that there are people who follow Falwell. There are people who follow Phelps. But they are such a small minority that it is amazing that the media has decided to make them the prevailing voice in this country. And that the pols listen.
I could kick every politician right square in the shins for believing this shit.
Hecate - Thank you. I'm convinced this is so because it is the reality I live in.
I know that there are people who follow Falwell. There are people who follow Phelps. But they are such a small minority that it is amazing that the media has decided to make them the prevailing voice in this country. And that the pols listen.
I could kick every politician right square in the shins for believing this shit.
I thought a bit about "why Democrats aren't responding". One thing is that liberals are so effectively cut out of the broadcast discourse and the print media are cutting us out too that it's our elected officials who carry the entire burden. The right has networks and thousands of mouthpieces on the air every day to further it's lies and hate mongering. It's clear that our elected officials can't do this and their job too.
The soloution isn't a perfect one but absent the much hoped for liberal networks we have got to take to the phones and do battle ourselves. It's really the work down in the muck that is really unpleasant and really irritating but which has to be done.
I thought a bit about "why Democrats aren't responding". One thing is that liberals are so effectively cut out of the broadcast discourse and the print media are cutting us out too that it's our elected officials who carry the entire burden. The right has networks and thousands of mouthpieces on the air every day to further it's lies and hate mongering. It's clear that our elected officials can't do this and their job too.
The soloution isn't a perfect one but absent the much hoped for liberal networks we have got to take to the phones and do battle ourselves. It's really the work down in the muck that is really unpleasant and really irritating but which has to be done.
Let's all give a round of applause for the results of vigorous American conservatism in the twenty-first century:
On "Meet the Press" 11/28/2004 -
Four male guests debate with male moderator whether women should have the right to an abortion.
Now that's progress!
Now, if we can just get Ginsburg and O'Connor to retire, so we can send Roe v. Wade back to the Supreme Court for proper consideration...
Let's all give a round of applause for the results of vigorous American conservatism in the twenty-first century:
On "Meet the Press" 11/28/2004 -
Four male guests debate with male moderator whether women should have the right to an abortion.
Now that's progress!
Now, if we can just get Ginsburg and O'Connor to retire, so we can send Roe v. Wade back to the Supreme Court for proper consideration...
However, we benefit from the moral values meme. It means the GOP will continue to veer off into wingnut territory. For Godsakes, don't stop them out of it.
As long as Democratic leadership doesn't buy into the moral values line, we're okay. It's even better as the GOP becomes the party of entrenched intolerance. If they try and push the fundie agenda too far, people will bolt their party en masse. If they don't push it enough, the fundies won't continue to support the GOP. Either way, its an electoral pickle.
However, we benefit from the moral values meme. It means the GOP will continue to veer off into wingnut territory. For Godsakes, don't stop them out of it.
As long as Democratic leadership doesn't buy into the moral values line, we're okay. It's even better as the GOP becomes the party of entrenched intolerance. If they try and push the fundie agenda too far, people will bolt their party en masse. If they don't push it enough, the fundies won't continue to support the GOP. Either way, its an electoral pickle.
A fundie not voting? They could get hit by a MACK Truck and what's left of their severed arm would crawl to the voting booth.
Incognito, what a visual! I expect to see something like that in Michael Moore's next movie!
A fundie not voting? They could get hit by a MACK Truck and what's left of their severed arm would crawl to the voting booth.
Incognito, what a visual! I expect to see something like that in Michael Moore's next movie!
The media likes the "morals" chat because they can pretend to be mortified and grovel and such, this INCREASES their audience who then see ads touting the various sex/death shows they run. Watch the ads! A moralist will bloviate, singing to the choir then there is an ad for CSI Red State America and the moral people go, "Oh, look at that sexy dead body! I have to learn the moral story behind it!" and voila! You have higher ratings.
The religious are always attracted to sex/death. It is the core of every religion! This is how our media moguls make their loot: pandering to this while pretending to be moral.
The media likes the "morals" chat because they can pretend to be mortified and grovel and such, this INCREASES their audience who then see ads touting the various sex/death shows they run. Watch the ads! A moralist will bloviate, singing to the choir then there is an ad for CSI Red State America and the moral people go, "Oh, look at that sexy dead body! I have to learn the moral story behind it!" and voila! You have higher ratings.
The religious are always attracted to sex/death. It is the core of every religion! This is how our media moguls make their loot: pandering to this while pretending to be moral.
The True Conservative can just kiss my ass. Or better yet, fuck off, loser conservative. You have an idiot in office. Why are you so unhappy?
The True Conservative can just kiss my ass. Or better yet, fuck off, loser conservative. You have an idiot in office. Why are you so unhappy?
Vicki:
Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006.
Don't hold your breath. Hope in one hand and piss in the other and see which one gets damp! Ain't gonna happen. No fuckin way. I'm giving 20-1 against Dems retaking the Senate, 100-1 against them retaking the House. Elections are shams, mere distractions from the real work of taking and holding power; public relations confections to fool the yokels, three-card monte, a shell-game... The franchise is meaningless, and has been since 2000. Forget it.
Unless you're willing to upset the applecart, that is...
Vicki:
Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006.
Don't hold your breath. Hope in one hand and piss in the other and see which one gets damp! Ain't gonna happen. No fuckin way. I'm giving 20-1 against Dems retaking the Senate, 100-1 against them retaking the House. Elections are shams, mere distractions from the real work of taking and holding power; public relations confections to fool the yokels, three-card monte, a shell-game... The franchise is meaningless, and has been since 2000. Forget it.
Unless you're willing to upset the applecart, that is...
texas - no, I just question why anyone would ask a bunch of strangers about which church they should go to. I find it weird.
Sorry, I don't intend to be rude.
texas - no, I just question why anyone would ask a bunch of strangers about which church they should go to. I find it weird.
Sorry, I don't intend to be rude.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
(OK, boomers, who can name the song/artist?)
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
(OK, boomers, who can name the song/artist?)
Tena -- geez, it takes about 2 minutes for 97 comments to separate a reply from it's inspiration.
Of course, people will have whatever spiritual feelings they have, I think that's great. But religion means an official system of doctrinal belief, based on authority, and accepted on faith, regardless of evidence.
I am for humanism and reason, and against religion. That doesn't mean I am also opposed to spirituality. A humanist perforce accepts and celebrates human feelings and aspirations.
To quote from The Life of Brian, "You're just going to have to work things out for yourselves." As opposed to letting somebody tell you what to think from the pulpit, or reading what to think from an ancient book.
Freedom from religion is the key to human survival in this century.
Tena -- geez, it takes about 2 minutes for 97 comments to separate a reply from it's inspiration.
Of course, people will have whatever spiritual feelings they have, I think that's great. But religion means an official system of doctrinal belief, based on authority, and accepted on faith, regardless of evidence.
I am for humanism and reason, and against religion. That doesn't mean I am also opposed to spirituality. A humanist perforce accepts and celebrates human feelings and aspirations.
To quote from The Life of Brian, "You're just going to have to work things out for yourselves." As opposed to letting somebody tell you what to think from the pulpit, or reading what to think from an ancient book.
Freedom from religion is the key to human survival in this century.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out? Are they so terrified that a Racist Radical Cleric like Dobson or Fallwell will call them "unchristian" that they can't even point out facts?
Um, well, I can think of no other explanation. Can you? Maybe we get what we deserve if we are letting them change the FACTS without rising up. Cause, you know, the facts are biased. You would think that we would be able to figure out a way to make progress, being that all the FACTS are on our side. Too bad our fear of being reality- and fact-based in actual public is trumping our obligation to tell the truth out loud. And this makes us better than them...how? And by "us", I mean our elected representatives. Let's throw down the gauntlet and let them know we are legion and we WILL NOT go away. Our grassroots efforts in this last election were awesome. We just need to energize a few, very few more. We can do this thing. We have too much to lose not to do it.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out? Are they so terrified that a Racist Radical Cleric like Dobson or Fallwell will call them "unchristian" that they can't even point out facts?
Um, well, I can think of no other explanation. Can you? Maybe we get what we deserve if we are letting them change the FACTS without rising up. Cause, you know, the facts are biased. You would think that we would be able to figure out a way to make progress, being that all the FACTS are on our side. Too bad our fear of being reality- and fact-based in actual public is trumping our obligation to tell the truth out loud. And this makes us better than them...how? And by "us", I mean our elected representatives. Let's throw down the gauntlet and let them know we are legion and we WILL NOT go away. Our grassroots efforts in this last election were awesome. We just need to energize a few, very few more. We can do this thing. We have too much to lose not to do it.
The only question here is, (given that the Atrios Fonz jumped the Shark already)
How did the Democrats trip themselves up again arguing over who has the moral high ground.
You'all are like blind dingoes, fighting for tainted meat tossed at you by your enemies.
It's like a kid with Tourettes barked "asshole" at a stadium of Democrats,
and the rest of the day was spent arguing over who he was talking about, and why he said it, and how you'all will try harder to be better. Simply,
your fluffy. Soft. Incapable of leadership.
And now you've got a Minister/Priest/
Terrorist on the job! Going Religious are ye? How sad.
You'll look like good Republicans by the next election.
Whatever happened to the Democrats I grew up with, convicted, compassionate, and intelligent?
Now this blog is run by Hecate, a leftover Keystone Kopper anarchist from the upper class, and RMJeffers, a blowhard cleric just perfect for your new "lost sheep" status.
What happened to the reality based thing?
Here's a quote to help ya get a little
real.
Thomas Paine-
"All national institutions of Churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, appear to me to be no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize powert and profit."
A nice quote. And so obvious.
Go get'em RMJ, it's time to terrify the bloggers here.
But remember, Freud thinks you are suffering from an illusion. Which is a nice way to say that your flat out crazy. On the minibus to stupidtown,
bringing your flock of suckers with you. Which god do you beleive in anyway? Allah? Yahweh? Shiva? Hanuman? If thouest beleive in a joke, thou becomes a joke.
Heaven is on earth. There is no God.
Anyone who tells you otherwise should be treated as insane.
So can the RMJ man, keep it "real"
as your tagline so judementally says.
The only question here is, (given that the Atrios Fonz jumped the Shark already)
How did the Democrats trip themselves up again arguing over who has the moral high ground.
You'all are like blind dingoes, fighting for tainted meat tossed at you by your enemies.
It's like a kid with Tourettes barked "asshole" at a stadium of Democrats,
and the rest of the day was spent arguing over who he was talking about, and why he said it, and how you'all will try harder to be better. Simply,
your fluffy. Soft. Incapable of leadership.
And now you've got a Minister/Priest/
Terrorist on the job! Going Religious are ye? How sad.
You'll look like good Republicans by the next election.
Whatever happened to the Democrats I grew up with, convicted, compassionate, and intelligent?
Now this blog is run by Hecate, a leftover Keystone Kopper anarchist from the upper class, and RMJeffers, a blowhard cleric just perfect for your new "lost sheep" status.
What happened to the reality based thing?
Here's a quote to help ya get a little
real.
Thomas Paine-
"All national institutions of Churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, appear to me to be no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize powert and profit."
A nice quote. And so obvious.
Go get'em RMJ, it's time to terrify the bloggers here.
But remember, Freud thinks you are suffering from an illusion. Which is a nice way to say that your flat out crazy. On the minibus to stupidtown,
bringing your flock of suckers with you. Which god do you beleive in anyway? Allah? Yahweh? Shiva? Hanuman? If thouest beleive in a joke, thou becomes a joke.
Heaven is on earth. There is no God.
Anyone who tells you otherwise should be treated as insane.
So can the RMJ man, keep it "real"
as your tagline so judementally says.
Oh, but NPRs own Kokie Roberts told me we are a nation of church-goers who voted for the church-going George Bush because he is always going to church.
Corkie Roberts is Dubya's human bidet.
Oh, but NPRs own Kokie Roberts told me we are a nation of church-goers who voted for the church-going George Bush because he is always going to church.
Corkie Roberts is Dubya's human bidet.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
The True Conservative
Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
Remember: Troll Feeding Times 6 AM - 7 AM.
What a laugh. Loser liberals talking about moral values.
The True Conservative
Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
Remember: Troll Feeding Times 6 AM - 7 AM.
Incognito, what a visual! I expect to see something like that in Michael Moore's next movie!
Vicki Stein
Does that truly make sense what Rove said about "millions of fundies not voting"? Fundies could be run over by a huge MACK truck but their severed self-righteous indignant hand would fucking crawl on all fives to the voting booth.
Incognito, what a visual! I expect to see something like that in Michael Moore's next movie!
Vicki Stein
Does that truly make sense what Rove said about "millions of fundies not voting"? Fundies could be run over by a huge MACK truck but their severed self-righteous indignant hand would fucking crawl on all fives to the voting booth.
We all need community -- I find a lot of community feeling here at Eschaton.
I was beginning to feel that way till the whole red state-blue state beatdown started. As a staunch democrat living in a red state, I'm feeling pretty pummeled by the subgroup of blue staters who seem to feel it's okay to include me and other democrats in their shit-slinging.
A late night episode in an open thread here last week: fellow poster from Texas was describing how he felt after the floods we had early in the week. He was safe but freaked out and tired and the water had gotten into his house and done a lot of damage. Another-non-troll-poster replied to this post saying that as far as he was concerned, the whole state could drown. Not only did he not qualify that to except the personal experience of the original poster, he actually further disparaged that poster's experience, making light of his trauma.
I was surprised at the extent to which it bothered me. I'm a big girl and can take care of myself, but for the most part since then, I've stayed away from the blogs, concentrating on real-life community.
We all need community -- I find a lot of community feeling here at Eschaton.
I was beginning to feel that way till the whole red state-blue state beatdown started. As a staunch democrat living in a red state, I'm feeling pretty pummeled by the subgroup of blue staters who seem to feel it's okay to include me and other democrats in their shit-slinging.
A late night episode in an open thread here last week: fellow poster from Texas was describing how he felt after the floods we had early in the week. He was safe but freaked out and tired and the water had gotten into his house and done a lot of damage. Another-non-troll-poster replied to this post saying that as far as he was concerned, the whole state could drown. Not only did he not qualify that to except the personal experience of the original poster, he actually further disparaged that poster's experience, making light of his trauma.
I was surprised at the extent to which it bothered me. I'm a big girl and can take care of myself, but for the most part since then, I've stayed away from the blogs, concentrating on real-life community.
Yo, da trufe -- There is no call for being so hostile to good people who you happen to disagree with. That's not going to convince anybody.
Unlike RMJ I'm not a Christian, and unlike Hecate I'm not a pagan either, but we can still share the common ground that really matters, which is our understanding of what is right and just. I'd rather claim that common ground and work from there than insult people.
Yo, da trufe -- There is no call for being so hostile to good people who you happen to disagree with. That's not going to convince anybody.
Unlike RMJ I'm not a Christian, and unlike Hecate I'm not a pagan either, but we can still share the common ground that really matters, which is our understanding of what is right and just. I'd rather claim that common ground and work from there than insult people.
Who are Dobson and Falwell and why should I care what they say? They aren't elected leaders.
Follow the money.
Falwell rose to prominence based on self-aggrandizement, and the fact that he runs a big (i.e., "rich") church.
Dobson was finally listened to as a "spokesperson" because he sold so many books, and garnered such a large TV/radio audience (no idea if he has both, but....)
Nobody listens to Jim Wallis (of Sojourners), or Christian Century, or even the UCC (a very liberal "mainstream" Christian church), because they are not wealthy. Money=prominence. Wallis makes news only by hobnobbing with the wealthy (I have my critiques of him, sometimes); Christian Century doesn't sell enough magazines; and the UCC doesn't have enough mega-churches or publicity hungry pastors of mega-churches.
It's money that matters.
Who are Dobson and Falwell and why should I care what they say? They aren't elected leaders.
Follow the money.
Falwell rose to prominence based on self-aggrandizement, and the fact that he runs a big (i.e., "rich") church.
Dobson was finally listened to as a "spokesperson" because he sold so many books, and garnered such a large TV/radio audience (no idea if he has both, but....)
Nobody listens to Jim Wallis (of Sojourners), or Christian Century, or even the UCC (a very liberal "mainstream" Christian church), because they are not wealthy. Money=prominence. Wallis makes news only by hobnobbing with the wealthy (I have my critiques of him, sometimes); Christian Century doesn't sell enough magazines; and the UCC doesn't have enough mega-churches or publicity hungry pastors of mega-churches.
It's money that matters.
The person who best frames the issue wins the debate. The rubes think ALL abortions are "partial birth," all personal injury lawsuits are "frivilous," and "moral values" do not include honesty and integrity. The GOPers do indeed have the best media manipulators money can buy, and as long as the disinterested, anti-intellectual populace shows it will swallow ANYTHING, Bush and Cheney and their ilk will continue to shovel it while their patrons empty the treasury.
The person who best frames the issue wins the debate. The rubes think ALL abortions are "partial birth," all personal injury lawsuits are "frivilous," and "moral values" do not include honesty and integrity. The GOPers do indeed have the best media manipulators money can buy, and as long as the disinterested, anti-intellectual populace shows it will swallow ANYTHING, Bush and Cheney and their ilk will continue to shovel it while their patrons empty the treasury.
I'm going to wait to see what happens after the 20th, but I'm beginning to think that there will be nonstop talk about Roe v Wade and nothing done.
I'm hopeful, anyway, though I could see it being challenged and successfully, depending on what happens with Rehnquist. But I don't think it's going to be as easy as the fundies think it is.
They think they can waltz in and change it all. I think they are dreaming.
I'm going to wait to see what happens after the 20th, but I'm beginning to think that there will be nonstop talk about Roe v Wade and nothing done.
I'm hopeful, anyway, though I could see it being challenged and successfully, depending on what happens with Rehnquist. But I don't think it's going to be as easy as the fundies think it is.
They think they can waltz in and change it all. I think they are dreaming.
Tena,
I really wanted to see what the reaction was to the Unitarian church; I wasn't trying to get a recommendation. I thought it was a friendly forum. LOL
Tena,
I really wanted to see what the reaction was to the Unitarian church; I wasn't trying to get a recommendation. I thought it was a friendly forum. LOL
"Whatever happened to the Democrats I grew up with, convicted, compassionate, and intelligent? "
You mean the ones who learnt what a nasty, skulking fool you are and decided to tell you so?
What a nasty, skulking little fool you are. Intolerant, vain, ambitious and incompetent, all rolled into a package of aggression and irritating prolixy.
Gah. Go away. Or better, go frighten some toddlers.
"Whatever happened to the Democrats I grew up with, convicted, compassionate, and intelligent? "
You mean the ones who learnt what a nasty, skulking fool you are and decided to tell you so?
What a nasty, skulking little fool you are. Intolerant, vain, ambitious and incompetent, all rolled into a package of aggression and irritating prolixy.
Gah. Go away. Or better, go frighten some toddlers.
Murica's husband just tried to beat some sense into her, that's all. He can get sorta crazy what with all her yapping, don't you know? Murica's husband just wants what's best for Murica, but she just keeps disobeying him and that just makes him angry. Murica might leave for the shelter, but she'll be back.
Murica's husband just tried to beat some sense into her, that's all. He can get sorta crazy what with all her yapping, don't you know? Murica's husband just wants what's best for Murica, but she just keeps disobeying him and that just makes him angry. Murica might leave for the shelter, but she'll be back.
arguing with "da trufe" is a waste of energy. I highly recommend against it.
arguing with "da trufe" is a waste of energy. I highly recommend against it.
jeebs - I've felt battered, too. For one thing, I think that whole red state-blue state thing is a dead end. For another, I don't like having all my hard work and the hard work of others in states Kerry didn't carry being written off. I worked my ass off and so did lots of people here and we had an enormous victory in that Bush barely squeaked by here, where he used to live.
I hate that paradigm and I am convinced it is one that the right has constructed because it fits so nicely into their strategy. It is a Rush Limbaugh/Karl Rove construct that keeps the religious right stirred up and active. Liberals have jumped right into the trap. Fed right into Rove's plans. By being insufferable about Bush voters, we prove that Rush and Rove are right. For Pete's sake, think of some other way of referring to Bush voters than "morons." Misguided, deluded - ok. But this whole Moron America meme stinks, frankly.
jeebs - I've felt battered, too. For one thing, I think that whole red state-blue state thing is a dead end. For another, I don't like having all my hard work and the hard work of others in states Kerry didn't carry being written off. I worked my ass off and so did lots of people here and we had an enormous victory in that Bush barely squeaked by here, where he used to live.
I hate that paradigm and I am convinced it is one that the right has constructed because it fits so nicely into their strategy. It is a Rush Limbaugh/Karl Rove construct that keeps the religious right stirred up and active. Liberals have jumped right into the trap. Fed right into Rove's plans. By being insufferable about Bush voters, we prove that Rush and Rove are right. For Pete's sake, think of some other way of referring to Bush voters than "morons." Misguided, deluded - ok. But this whole Moron America meme stinks, frankly.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out? Are they so terrified that a Racist Radical Cleric like Dobson or Fallwell will call them "unchristian" that they can't even point out facts?
This question, and others basically asking "why don't the Democrats do something?" don't address the issue of the widespread futility we're all feeling.
When the fix is in at virtually every level and even the media is not only drinking the kool-aid, they are soaking in it, what is it we're supposed to do? Where do we do it? What do we use to do it? And further, who will be affected by our actions? Us and who else?
I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but we should figure out to make our actions count, how to make them actually have an impact, and stop preaching to the choir.
Why are the Democrats not pointing this out? Are they so terrified that a Racist Radical Cleric like Dobson or Fallwell will call them "unchristian" that they can't even point out facts?
This question, and others basically asking "why don't the Democrats do something?" don't address the issue of the widespread futility we're all feeling.
When the fix is in at virtually every level and even the media is not only drinking the kool-aid, they are soaking in it, what is it we're supposed to do? Where do we do it? What do we use to do it? And further, who will be affected by our actions? Us and who else?
I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but we should figure out to make our actions count, how to make them actually have an impact, and stop preaching to the choir.
Robert - what is disconcerting to me in the extreme is that no matter how many times you or I say this, and no matter how many times circumstances prove it, people still are buying the idea, here on the left, that half the country is just like Falwell and loves the guy.
The very problem Jon Stewart was railing at Tucker Carlson about.
Shouting heads sell airtime. Anything that can't be cloven into a simplistic dichotomy is unworthy of public discussion.
As evidenced even by some of the posters around here (such as, this morning, "da trufe is rob.")
It's all so much easier when you can declare one side wrong and proceed to pound them with your imaginary big hammer. Much easier than thinking, anyway.
A problem that seems to be universal.
Robert - what is disconcerting to me in the extreme is that no matter how many times you or I say this, and no matter how many times circumstances prove it, people still are buying the idea, here on the left, that half the country is just like Falwell and loves the guy.
The very problem Jon Stewart was railing at Tucker Carlson about.
Shouting heads sell airtime. Anything that can't be cloven into a simplistic dichotomy is unworthy of public discussion.
As evidenced even by some of the posters around here (such as, this morning, "da trufe is rob.")
It's all so much easier when you can declare one side wrong and proceed to pound them with your imaginary big hammer. Much easier than thinking, anyway.
A problem that seems to be universal.
OT (?), USAToday has an article by Rita Rubin about a fat FDA thumb on the scientific scales.
Strangely, when I try to post the link, it gets blocked as looking like spam. (?)
Scuzzy bastards, all around.
-
OT (?), USAToday has an article by Rita Rubin about a fat FDA thumb on the scientific scales.
Strangely, when I try to post the link, it gets blocked as looking like spam. (?)
Scuzzy bastards, all around.
-
Jeebs,
I think a healthy balance of the two is what's in order. I remember that thread, and was equally pissed off by the lack of empathy for Rorschach (it was Rorshach, right?) and the other Texans who were suffering during the torrential rains.
Most of us understand that the map is not red or blue, but purple, and that it is equally frustrating to be a blue voter in a red state as it is to be part of "The United States of Canada". I was guilty right after the election for talking secession, etc., but that was anger talking, nothing more.
We need to stick together to fight. Healthy debate is one thing, but kneecapping really is out of order.
Jeebs,
I think a healthy balance of the two is what's in order. I remember that thread, and was equally pissed off by the lack of empathy for Rorschach (it was Rorshach, right?) and the other Texans who were suffering during the torrential rains.
Most of us understand that the map is not red or blue, but purple, and that it is equally frustrating to be a blue voter in a red state as it is to be part of "The United States of Canada". I was guilty right after the election for talking secession, etc., but that was anger talking, nothing more.
We need to stick together to fight. Healthy debate is one thing, but kneecapping really is out of order.
Freedom from religion is the key to human survival in this century.
cervantes
The calculations given by great mathematicians for that escape from inspired destruction of civilization is only 50/50. That's a coin toss.
Freedom from religion is the key to human survival in this century.
cervantes
The calculations given by great mathematicians for that escape from inspired destruction of civilization is only 50/50. That's a coin toss.
Be careful. I'm a liberal atheist, but I'm not willing to defend the trash that's on TV and in the movies today. If that's what this is all about, let them do it. If the media guys have to come up with entertainment that has some content beyond sex and violence, I will be happier myself.
If we want to be known as the defenders of sleazy TV, no one will be on our side. There are more red state rednecks that want this crap than there are liberals. Let the ayatollahs ban it. It will reduce their support immediately. I can live without juvenile TV sex fantasies for the rest of my life, personally.
Be careful. I'm a liberal atheist, but I'm not willing to defend the trash that's on TV and in the movies today. If that's what this is all about, let them do it. If the media guys have to come up with entertainment that has some content beyond sex and violence, I will be happier myself.
If we want to be known as the defenders of sleazy TV, no one will be on our side. There are more red state rednecks that want this crap than there are liberals. Let the ayatollahs ban it. It will reduce their support immediately. I can live without juvenile TV sex fantasies for the rest of my life, personally.
And as far as the whole "morality" question, this is once again A) the mainstream media spinning a yarn and B) the Dems failing to spin one.
Americans see social justice and environmentalism as moral issues. Polls have demonstrated that. So, here, again, the GOP has managed to produce a narrative by which "morality" equals anti-choice and anti-gay marriage.
Load o' crap.
And as far as the whole "morality" question, this is once again A) the mainstream media spinning a yarn and B) the Dems failing to spin one.
Americans see social justice and environmentalism as moral issues. Polls have demonstrated that. So, here, again, the GOP has managed to produce a narrative by which "morality" equals anti-choice and anti-gay marriage.
Load o' crap.
texas - If you don't like me or my comments, please feel free to ignore them.
It is an open forum.
Plus, I apologized.
texas - If you don't like me or my comments, please feel free to ignore them.
It is an open forum.
Plus, I apologized.
Rove v Wade: in the Great Die Off, when most humans either starve to death or are blown up in WWIII over declining oil reserves, abortion won't even be on the map anymore.
The radiation effects will cause way too many natural abortions.
Rove v Wade: in the Great Die Off, when most humans either starve to death or are blown up in WWIII over declining oil reserves, abortion won't even be on the map anymore.
The radiation effects will cause way too many natural abortions.
Does that truly make sense what Rove said about "millions of fundies not voting"?
If it were true, it would certainly say something about the American right: offended by drunk driving; aroused by unprovoked war and torture.
Does that truly make sense what Rove said about "millions of fundies not voting"?
If it were true, it would certainly say something about the American right: offended by drunk driving; aroused by unprovoked war and torture.
Quentin:
I just posted a bit on the FDA and Vioxx on my blog here.
Nasty business...
Quentin:
I just posted a bit on the FDA and Vioxx on my blog here.
Nasty business...
Jeebs, the red state/blue state thing is getting on my nerves, too. I live in a conservative city in a "blue state" (am really starting to hate that term, note to self ~ quit using it!) and am amazed at the number of folks who write to the local paper bragging about their "red state" values and how liberals are evil (seriously ~ it is the most mundane and unsubstantiated argument that I have ever read, yet it seems to have resonance with some of the folks who are proud to have voted for the simian). Regardless, a mandate for the Christian right on values is ludicrous.
Jeebs, the red state/blue state thing is getting on my nerves, too. I live in a conservative city in a "blue state" (am really starting to hate that term, note to self ~ quit using it!) and am amazed at the number of folks who write to the local paper bragging about their "red state" values and how liberals are evil (seriously ~ it is the most mundane and unsubstantiated argument that I have ever read, yet it seems to have resonance with some of the folks who are proud to have voted for the simian). Regardless, a mandate for the Christian right on values is ludicrous.
If we want to be known as the defenders of sleazy TV...
we should be the defenders of it. the fact that it repulses, but is not truly profane, means it should be afforded the most visible protection.
If we want to be known as the defenders of sleazy TV...
we should be the defenders of it. the fact that it repulses, but is not truly profane, means it should be afforded the most visible protection.
jeebs - what can we do? The only thing I can think of is to make ourselves heard.
It's tedious, it takes time, but that's how the right has done it. We write, we complain, we point out where things are not as they have been represented to be. We do that consistently and in numbers, and we will make a difference. But it won't happen tomorrow. It will take a real effort.
We have a good start on it. Sinclair was brilliant. We hammer the media. And we let the Congressional Dems know how we feel by supporting them when they act like the opposition, and bitching when they don't.
jeebs - what can we do? The only thing I can think of is to make ourselves heard.
It's tedious, it takes time, but that's how the right has done it. We write, we complain, we point out where things are not as they have been represented to be. We do that consistently and in numbers, and we will make a difference. But it won't happen tomorrow. It will take a real effort.
We have a good start on it. Sinclair was brilliant. We hammer the media. And we let the Congressional Dems know how we feel by supporting them when they act like the opposition, and bitching when they don't.
Maybe the MM knows their days are numbered in the Repub party. Robertson tried to stab Shrub in the back just days before the election with the Iraq War comments. Rove has been furiously back pedalling from the meme that the Fundies won this election so he doesn't have to play pay-back with them. It will be a treat to see Rove dance this dance.
Maybe the MM knows their days are numbered in the Repub party. Robertson tried to stab Shrub in the back just days before the election with the Iraq War comments. Rove has been furiously back pedalling from the meme that the Fundies won this election so he doesn't have to play pay-back with them. It will be a treat to see Rove dance this dance.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
As far as I'm concerned, everything that happens in the next 4 years is their fault. I'm not about to molly-coddle these people.
Al of the above, of course, only applies if the election was NOT Diebolded. If it was, we're all victims.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
As far as I'm concerned, everything that happens in the next 4 years is their fault. I'm not about to molly-coddle these people.
Al of the above, of course, only applies if the election was NOT Diebolded. If it was, we're all victims.
I can live without juvenile TV sex fantasies for the rest of my life, personally.
there is an off button and a change channel button on your tv fwiw.
I can live without juvenile TV sex fantasies for the rest of my life, personally.
there is an off button and a change channel button on your tv fwiw.
Jamais Vu,
You've got an off button on your tv, right? I don't like censorship even of stuff I don't want to watch (and I watch almost no tv at all). They may start with stuff you don't care for, but they won't stop there. Censorship, especially by a bunch of self-proclaimed morality mavens, is never a good idea.
Jamais Vu,
You've got an off button on your tv, right? I don't like censorship even of stuff I don't want to watch (and I watch almost no tv at all). They may start with stuff you don't care for, but they won't stop there. Censorship, especially by a bunch of self-proclaimed morality mavens, is never a good idea.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
I'm not sure such an animal exists. Although if one does, then it surely must make for an interesting debate.
What opinion am I supposed to have about someone who voted for Bush with their eyes wide open?
I'm not sure such an animal exists. Although if one does, then it surely must make for an interesting debate.
It's just amazing to me that these crazies have claimed some kind of victory out of these figures. It's just a flat-out lie, but no one is calling them on their lie.
Of course not; because it's worse than that.
This lie began with the media. The day after the election (which is still not decided, but don't tell the media that, either, it would provoke a crisis!), the media was reporting that "moral values" was the deciding factor. Actually, as they accurately reported (but later ignored), "moral values" surprised some analysts as even being an issue. Casting about for an explanation of "wha' happen'?", the media moguls struck on that one and, being the owners of the megaphone, kept repeating is ad nauseum.
The Falwells and Dobsons just picked up on it. After all, they know better than to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Which means, of course, the situation really is bad. Argh. This is depressing. Time to go grade papers (and when it's that depressing.....)
It's just amazing to me that these crazies have claimed some kind of victory out of these figures. It's just a flat-out lie, but no one is calling them on their lie.
Of course not; because it's worse than that.
This lie began with the media. The day after the election (which is still not decided, but don't tell the media that, either, it would provoke a crisis!), the media was reporting that "moral values" was the deciding factor. Actually, as they accurately reported (but later ignored), "moral values" surprised some analysts as even being an issue. Casting about for an explanation of "wha' happen'?", the media moguls struck on that one and, being the owners of the megaphone, kept repeating is ad nauseum.
The Falwells and Dobsons just picked up on it. After all, they know better than to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Which means, of course, the situation really is bad. Argh. This is depressing. Time to go grade papers (and when it's that depressing.....)
texas- i'm glad you got a response that assured your "seek and ye shall find" request. some people that post back act as if they know all the answers and therefore you should too. or worse that your opinion is not worthy of this space ( and i'm not talking about deliberate jerks)
texas- i'm glad you got a response that assured your "seek and ye shall find" request. some people that post back act as if they know all the answers and therefore you should too. or worse that your opinion is not worthy of this space ( and i'm not talking about deliberate jerks)
This is depressing. Time to go grade papers (and when it's that depressing.....)
Oy. That is bad.
I've mentioned this in comments threads yesterday, but gotten no real reaction, and it seems to me a very important story that is doomed to be ignored by the US media:
Libya, our new good buddies who disarmed when we said so, has been seeking nuclear capability:
Authorities hunting traffickers in nuclear weapons technology recently uncovered an audacious plan to deliver a complete uranium enrichment plant to Libya.
...
Details of the plot began to emerge in September, when police found the elements of a two-storey steel processing system for the enrichment plant in a factory outside Johannesburg. They were packed in 11 freight containers for shipment to Libya.
South African officials will say only that they discovered nuclear components. It appears, however, that the massive system was designed to operate 1000 centrifuges for enriching uranium.
Once assembled in Libya, the plant could have produced enough weapons-grade uranium to manufacture several nuclear bombs a year. Delivery of the plant would have greatly accelerated Libya's efforts to develop nuclear weapons.
Seems pretty damn huge to me.
This is depressing. Time to go grade papers (and when it's that depressing.....)
Oy. That is bad.
I've mentioned this in comments threads yesterday, but gotten no real reaction, and it seems to me a very important story that is doomed to be ignored by the US media:
Libya, our new good buddies who disarmed when we said so, has been seeking nuclear capability:
Authorities hunting traffickers in nuclear weapons technology recently uncovered an audacious plan to deliver a complete uranium enrichment plant to Libya.
...
Details of the plot began to emerge in September, when police found the elements of a two-storey steel processing system for the enrichment plant in a factory outside Johannesburg. They were packed in 11 freight containers for shipment to Libya.
South African officials will say only that they discovered nuclear components. It appears, however, that the massive system was designed to operate 1000 centrifuges for enriching uranium.
Once assembled in Libya, the plant could have produced enough weapons-grade uranium to manufacture several nuclear bombs a year. Delivery of the plant would have greatly accelerated Libya's efforts to develop nuclear weapons.
Seems pretty damn huge to me.
blakNo1 - I am not presuming to tell you what opinion to have. But I do believe that opinions need to have some basis in fact.
This is what I'm talking about - this red-blue thing is not factual. There are fundies and people who are sick with religion in this country. But there are not enough of them to have carried Bush into office on their votes alone.
We don't have to agree with people who voted for Bush and we are free to think they made a huge mistake. But dividing the country up into morons and smart people, especially based on a fucking election map in a rigged election, is just stupid, IMHO.
blakNo1 - I am not presuming to tell you what opinion to have. But I do believe that opinions need to have some basis in fact.
This is what I'm talking about - this red-blue thing is not factual. There are fundies and people who are sick with religion in this country. But there are not enough of them to have carried Bush into office on their votes alone.
We don't have to agree with people who voted for Bush and we are free to think they made a huge mistake. But dividing the country up into morons and smart people, especially based on a fucking election map in a rigged election, is just stupid, IMHO.
Morality has so very little to do with the "game of governments".
Morality has so very little to do with the "game of governments".
If Bush was "Diebolded" into place, could someone please tell me how four years,or two years from now will matter? Won't the same thing just happen again? It seems to me we are zero for three in stolen elections and I honestly can not see any way for things to change; I would ove to have the optimism that some like Tena have, but I don't. I feel worse than I did on Nov. 3rd.
If Bush was "Diebolded" into place, could someone please tell me how four years,or two years from now will matter? Won't the same thing just happen again? It seems to me we are zero for three in stolen elections and I honestly can not see any way for things to change; I would ove to have the optimism that some like Tena have, but I don't. I feel worse than I did on Nov. 3rd.
Nuthin' to see here...I've looked in ta KhadaFee's soul. He's like my brown buddy, Foxy, they're all good.
Nuthin' to see here...I've looked in ta KhadaFee's soul. He's like my brown buddy, Foxy, they're all good.
Jerry Falwell's fat twinkie eating ass has "all the answers."
Jerry Falwell's fat twinkie eating ass has "all the answers."
BlakNo1, if your post is referring to the red-blue discussion:
put the blame where it belongs-on the people who voted for Bush, not their neighbors who did not. Not the whole state.
If you want to simplistically blame entire states, stick to the 3 or 4 that actually were ALL red.
I don't want to reach across any aisles right now either. I don't want to work with the 'Pukes at all.
I especially don't want to be grouped with them by other democrats. I don't want to have my progressive values and my hard work for the democratic party ignored by people who are too ignorant to understand that simply living in a red state doesn't make someone complicit in the 'Puke regime.
I will not be silent about being bashed by fellow democrats simply because I choose to live in a red state.
squirrel - Thanks.
BlakNo1, if your post is referring to the red-blue discussion:
put the blame where it belongs-on the people who voted for Bush, not their neighbors who did not. Not the whole state.
If you want to simplistically blame entire states, stick to the 3 or 4 that actually were ALL red.
I don't want to reach across any aisles right now either. I don't want to work with the 'Pukes at all.
I especially don't want to be grouped with them by other democrats. I don't want to have my progressive values and my hard work for the democratic party ignored by people who are too ignorant to understand that simply living in a red state doesn't make someone complicit in the 'Puke regime.
I will not be silent about being bashed by fellow democrats simply because I choose to live in a red state.
squirrel - Thanks.
Seems pretty damn huge to me.
Only if the President says so, I guess....
When nuclear proliferation is only a problem if it involves the President's narrow political platform....well, we can only hope those statistics Atrios cited in a a posting yesterday mean the GOP is going to face a lot of resistance from behind starting in January.....
Seems pretty damn huge to me.
Only if the President says so, I guess....
When nuclear proliferation is only a problem if it involves the President's narrow political platform....well, we can only hope those statistics Atrios cited in a a posting yesterday mean the GOP is going to face a lot of resistance from behind starting in January.....
I'm not a big fan of the "moral values" wording in a closed-end most-important-issues list, but Frank Rich makes an invalid comparison in the text hecate bold-faced:
In 1996, when 40 percent of Americans based their votes on "moral values," they re-elected Bill Clinton. Now that the number of Americans who base their votes on "moral values" has been cut almost in half, they selected George Bush.
The 1996 figure comes from the national Los Angeles Times exit poll. (The networks' exit poll didn't ask "moral values" or anything like it in the issues list before this year.) But the LA Times question allows respondents to select up to TWO responses (from a list of 11 plus "none of the above"). The 2004 National Election Pool survey allows respondents to check only ONE response (from a list of seven).
LA Times 1996 exit poll data and question wording
National Election Pool 2004 exit poll data and question wording (via CBS News)
I'm not a big fan of the "moral values" wording in a closed-end most-important-issues list, but Frank Rich makes an invalid comparison in the text hecate bold-faced:
In 1996, when 40 percent of Americans based their votes on "moral values," they re-elected Bill Clinton. Now that the number of Americans who base their votes on "moral values" has been cut almost in half, they selected George Bush.
The 1996 figure comes from the national Los Angeles Times exit poll. (The networks' exit poll didn't ask "moral values" or anything like it in the issues list before this year.) But the LA Times question allows respondents to select up to TWO responses (from a list of 11 plus "none of the above"). The 2004 National Election Pool survey allows respondents to check only ONE response (from a list of seven).
LA Times 1996 exit poll data and question wording
National Election Pool 2004 exit poll data and question wording (via CBS News)
Oh, if the election was rigged, then all the punditry about morality means nothing.
If not, then I should point out that 35% of Massachusetts went for The Chimp as well, making maps, except the purple ones, meaningless.
But, either way, a moron is a moron is a moron and if you voted for Bush, that's what you are IMAO, no matter if you're misguided or not.
Oh, if the election was rigged, then all the punditry about morality means nothing.
If not, then I should point out that 35% of Massachusetts went for The Chimp as well, making maps, except the purple ones, meaningless.
But, either way, a moron is a moron is a moron and if you voted for Bush, that's what you are IMAO, no matter if you're misguided or not.
The 1996 figure comes from the national Los Angeles Times exit poll. (The networks' exit poll didn't ask "moral values" or anything like it in the issues list before this year.) But the LA Times question allows respondents to select up to TWO responses (from a list of 11 plus "none of the above"). The 2004 National Election Pool survey allows respondents to check only ONE response (from a list of seven).
Excellent point.
Yes, it's the old "apples v. oranges" gambit again, because lorry nose (Churchy LaFemme) that discussing numbers like this causes the MEGO effect, and we can't have that, so let's simplify things beyond recognition and ignore the hard data that makes our "soft data" absolutely imaginary.
The 1996 figure comes from the national Los Angeles Times exit poll. (The networks' exit poll didn't ask "moral values" or anything like it in the issues list before this year.) But the LA Times question allows respondents to select up to TWO responses (from a list of 11 plus "none of the above"). The 2004 National Election Pool survey allows respondents to check only ONE response (from a list of seven).
Excellent point.
Yes, it's the old "apples v. oranges" gambit again, because lorry nose (Churchy LaFemme) that discussing numbers like this causes the MEGO effect, and we can't have that, so let's simplify things beyond recognition and ignore the hard data that makes our "soft data" absolutely imaginary.
Somewhat OT -- Mel is donating his earnings to charity, right? RIGHT?
Mel Gibson has earned a staggering $414 million from his controversial pet project The Passion Of The Christ. Gibson's earnings are likely to increase with DVD and pay-per-view television sales of the film, which was only released in American cinemas nine months ago, before going on to be screened around the world. Movie analyst Tim Briody says, "It's the all-time highest grosser of a film not released in the summer or holidays." The movie, which documents Jesus Christ's final hours on earth, profited from a publicity storm whipped up before its release - some critics criticized its graphic violence, while others branded it anti-Semitic.
Somewhat OT -- Mel is donating his earnings to charity, right? RIGHT?
Mel Gibson has earned a staggering $414 million from his controversial pet project The Passion Of The Christ. Gibson's earnings are likely to increase with DVD and pay-per-view television sales of the film, which was only released in American cinemas nine months ago, before going on to be screened around the world. Movie analyst Tim Briody says, "It's the all-time highest grosser of a film not released in the summer or holidays." The movie, which documents Jesus Christ's final hours on earth, profited from a publicity storm whipped up before its release - some critics criticized its graphic violence, while others branded it anti-Semitic.
rorschach - I saw that story about Libya yesterday.
Looks as though another one of Bush's "triumphs of the Will" is really a will-o-the-wisp.
rorschach - I saw that story about Libya yesterday.
Looks as though another one of Bush's "triumphs of the Will" is really a will-o-the-wisp.
Now that's what I'm talking about!
"Shouting heads sell airtime. Anything that can't be cloven into a simplistic dichotomy is unworthy of public discussion.
As evidenced even by some of the posters around here (such as, this morning, "da trufe is rob.")"
I have cloven a simplistic dichotomy!
(not bad for a monday)
I missed all that jazz at Seminary School Judge Jeffers!
But, feel free to weave your web, use your intellect, to further screw the people with your religious terror. You are the worst kind of human I know. A judger of others, using the imprimatur of your God to cow the heathens. You sir, are a dangerous man. A cleric, with a brain, who by default is insane.
Who is your God man? Which do you choose? And thereby condemn the rest of us to hell! Are you Christian?
Do you believe in Armageddon? Am I going to burn up at the Second Coming for not beleiving in the deity of Christ.
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within"
There is no God. Grow up people.
But RMJ, seriously, who is your God, is he the angry guy who directed Joshua to kill every man woman and child in Jericho?
Is it the guy who sent the Jews into the desert one year for every that Moses spies stayed in Canaan?
The guy who killed all the first born children in Egypt.
Is that your man? Do be honest. Do be truthful. Try and answer my simple question without wrapping it up in your web of lexicon.
Who is your God?
Or have you not enough faith, enough courage, enough balls, to answer me.
Nice work though, this board got itslef a priest. To bolster the "moral" content I suppose.
You all fancy yourself as Democrats.
Misfit whiners is more like it.
But now you have installed RMJ, so God is on your side.
I love that Arthur C. Clarke dismissed religion as a manifestation of the infancy of our our race. We sure got a lot of big ass babies in this country!
I won't bother you anymore today though. My dissent, while considered the lifblood of democracy by thoise with a working nougat, causes to much distress in your hostage like minds.
You are all hostages!
Be free!
and bye bye!
Now that's what I'm talking about!
"Shouting heads sell airtime. Anything that can't be cloven into a simplistic dichotomy is unworthy of public discussion.
As evidenced even by some of the posters around here (such as, this morning, "da trufe is rob.")"
I have cloven a simplistic dichotomy!
(not bad for a monday)
I missed all that jazz at Seminary School Judge Jeffers!
But, feel free to weave your web, use your intellect, to further screw the people with your religious terror. You are the worst kind of human I know. A judger of others, using the imprimatur of your God to cow the heathens. You sir, are a dangerous man. A cleric, with a brain, who by default is insane.
Who is your God man? Which do you choose? And thereby condemn the rest of us to hell! Are you Christian?
Do you believe in Armageddon? Am I going to burn up at the Second Coming for not beleiving in the deity of Christ.
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within"
There is no God. Grow up people.
But RMJ, seriously, who is your God, is he the angry guy who directed Joshua to kill every man woman and child in Jericho?
Is it the guy who sent the Jews into the desert one year for every that Moses spies stayed in Canaan?
The guy who killed all the first born children in Egypt.
Is that your man? Do be honest. Do be truthful. Try and answer my simple question without wrapping it up in your web of lexicon.
Who is your God?
Or have you not enough faith, enough courage, enough balls, to answer me.
Nice work though, this board got itslef a priest. To bolster the "moral" content I suppose.
You all fancy yourself as Democrats.
Misfit whiners is more like it.
But now you have installed RMJ, so God is on your side.
I love that Arthur C. Clarke dismissed religion as a manifestation of the infancy of our our race. We sure got a lot of big ass babies in this country!
I won't bother you anymore today though. My dissent, while considered the lifblood of democracy by thoise with a working nougat, causes to much distress in your hostage like minds.
You are all hostages!
Be free!
and bye bye!
But, either way, a moron is a moron is a moron and if you voted for Bush, that's what you are IMAO, no matter if you're misguided or not.
BlakNo1
BlakNo1 ~
Although it doesn't make for pleasant discussion, your statement echoes my sentiments.
How anyone who follows the news could vote for Bush after four miserable years ~ it boggles the mind.
But, either way, a moron is a moron is a moron and if you voted for Bush, that's what you are IMAO, no matter if you're misguided or not.
BlakNo1
BlakNo1 ~
Although it doesn't make for pleasant discussion, your statement echoes my sentiments.
How anyone who follows the news could vote for Bush after four miserable years ~ it boggles the mind.
Or have you not enough faith, enough courage, enough balls, to answer me.
Why should I, when your mind is made up? A closed mind is a pointless thing to have a discussion with.
And besides, you prefer to cut and run:
I won't bother you anymore today though. My dissent, while considered the lifblood of democracy by thoise with a working nougat, causes to much distress in your hostage like minds.
I would mention removing the log from your own eye first, but you'd probably consider that "religious," too (when it is just as clearly a function of human psychology, as you so aptly display in this sentence).
and bye bye!
As you said.....
Or have you not enough faith, enough courage, enough balls, to answer me.
Why should I, when your mind is made up? A closed mind is a pointless thing to have a discussion with.
And besides, you prefer to cut and run:
I won't bother you anymore today though. My dissent, while considered the lifblood of democracy by thoise with a working nougat, causes to much distress in your hostage like minds.
I would mention removing the log from your own eye first, but you'd probably consider that "religious," too (when it is just as clearly a function of human psychology, as you so aptly display in this sentence).
and bye bye!
As you said.....
rette - Well, my optimism extends only so far as people are concerned, not Diebold or other e voting methods.
Our election process absolutely has to be cleaned up or we can forget democracy altogether. I completely agree with that.
Red State / Blue State? Or
"The Urban Archipelago"
http://tinyurl.com/55hay
Long but worth the read.
rette - Well, my optimism extends only so far as people are concerned, not Diebold or other e voting methods.
Our election process absolutely has to be cleaned up or we can forget democracy altogether. I completely agree with that.
Red State / Blue State? Or
"The Urban Archipelago"
http://tinyurl.com/55hay
Long but worth the read.
You know what? I'm really sick and tired of being sick and tired of the kernal that our only hope is that repukes do themselves in. That's really piss-poor. They are taking us down a wrong ass-backwards. They've already ruined us all to the world. Now they will bring about the destruction of this country, no arguments. Get while the getting's good, folks. I plan to.
You know what? I'm really sick and tired of being sick and tired of the kernal that our only hope is that repukes do themselves in. That's really piss-poor. They are taking us down a wrong ass-backwards. They've already ruined us all to the world. Now they will bring about the destruction of this country, no arguments. Get while the getting's good, folks. I plan to.
Did someone mention sex? Isn't that usually what causes the trolls to scurry away, the awful idea that a discussion of *S*E*X* might occur?
Must have done.
As for being cross about 'red states', I'm afraid that there's a bit of confusion here between a disagreement about politics and about hurt feelings. Hurt feelings, which is what seem to underlie entirely too much of what is being touted as morals (for of course morals are not quantifiable by and large, but are always expressions of feelings) are inadequate grounds for political, social or economic functions. Hurt feelings aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell. But hurt feelings are something that can be talked about endlessly, for they are endlessly interpretable.
Lot of hurt feelings around these days. Not very useful as anything except a shield and a cover for far less charming activities.
Did someone mention sex? Isn't that usually what causes the trolls to scurry away, the awful idea that a discussion of *S*E*X* might occur?
Must have done.
As for being cross about 'red states', I'm afraid that there's a bit of confusion here between a disagreement about politics and about hurt feelings. Hurt feelings, which is what seem to underlie entirely too much of what is being touted as morals (for of course morals are not quantifiable by and large, but are always expressions of feelings) are inadequate grounds for political, social or economic functions. Hurt feelings aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell. But hurt feelings are something that can be talked about endlessly, for they are endlessly interpretable.
Lot of hurt feelings around these days. Not very useful as anything except a shield and a cover for far less charming activities.
We are moving inexorably and irreversibly toward a one-party Nation: God's Own Party.
As social conditions deteriorate (does ANYONE doubt it, while war proliferates, the economy tanks, the dollar declines), more and more foolks will turn to "God" for whatever it is foolks turn to "God" for.
I know it's hard to face it, but it is true: The Grand American Experiment with democracy, tolerance, and liberty is over.
Now what are we going to do about it?
We are moving inexorably and irreversibly toward a one-party Nation: God's Own Party.
As social conditions deteriorate (does ANYONE doubt it, while war proliferates, the economy tanks, the dollar declines), more and more foolks will turn to "God" for whatever it is foolks turn to "God" for.
I know it's hard to face it, but it is true: The Grand American Experiment with democracy, tolerance, and liberty is over.
Now what are we going to do about it?
Now the Chimp owes the fundies big time.
He must carry their buckets of slime.
We must be humble sheep.
We must pray before sleep,
And look at fucking as sinful crime.
Now the Chimp owes the fundies big time.
He must carry their buckets of slime.
We must be humble sheep.
We must pray before sleep,
And look at fucking as sinful crime.
shorter da trufe is rob: how come no one cares he will burn in hell
shorter da trufe is rob: how come no one cares he will burn in hell
GWPDA - This is about way more than "hurt feelings," love. This is about what is true and what isn't.
I haven't liked the constant slamming of "red states." But the main reason I've given all along is because I don't believe in this "Great Divide" idea that is principally a Rovian construct that has taken off with the media, which is not our friend.
GWPDA - This is about way more than "hurt feelings," love. This is about what is true and what isn't.
I haven't liked the constant slamming of "red states." But the main reason I've given all along is because I don't believe in this "Great Divide" idea that is principally a Rovian construct that has taken off with the media, which is not our friend.
last tidbit-
somebody might want to mention that in the 1996 poll, 69% of the moral tally voted for Dole, while only 15% voted for Bubba.
The moral value issue being 460% more important to Republicans?
Does that make Democrats immoral?
No, but it keeps them out of RMJ's heaven!
last tidbit-
somebody might want to mention that in the 1996 poll, 69% of the moral tally voted for Dole, while only 15% voted for Bubba.
The moral value issue being 460% more important to Republicans?
Does that make Democrats immoral?
No, but it keeps them out of RMJ's heaven!
Now what are we going to do about it?
We are going to silently accept it.
Now what are we going to do about it?
We are going to silently accept it.
No, but it keeps them out of RMJ's heaven!
Wow. Now I'm in charge of heaven. I own it. And I can keep Democrats out.
Such power. It goes right to my head.....
(and I thought you were leaving. Obviously not a person of your word....)
No, but it keeps them out of RMJ's heaven!
Wow. Now I'm in charge of heaven. I own it. And I can keep Democrats out.
Such power. It goes right to my head.....
(and I thought you were leaving. Obviously not a person of your word....)
Mr. Cool Guy - you can accept it quietly if you like. I have no intention of doing that.
I intend to be a noisy and as liberal as I can be. It's what I've been doing for the last two years and I intend to get better at it.
Mr. Cool Guy - you can accept it quietly if you like. I have no intention of doing that.
I intend to be a noisy and as liberal as I can be. It's what I've been doing for the last two years and I intend to get better at it.
CHRIST. Will somebody please think of the children? THE CHILDREN?
CHRIST. Will somebody please think of the children? THE CHILDREN?
Theocracy as a meme:
GOP: "God's Own Party"
DEM: "Devil's Evil Minions"
wanna bet?
Theocracy as a meme:
GOP: "God's Own Party"
DEM: "Devil's Evil Minions"
wanna bet?
Can't see why so many of us on the leftish end of the spectrum are so hostile to the "moral values" explanation of Bush's "win".
Whether or not it's true, it would actually be, for me, the most comforting explanation, in a weird way. Given that "moral values" is a code word for gay and abortion rights, the fact that Bush won because of gays and abortion, while sad in what it says about our country, at least would mean that there wasn't anything we could have done differently to win the election.
Of course, that doesn't mean the "moral values" explanation is the right one; but I just don't get why it seems to bother some Democrats so much.
Can't see why so many of us on the leftish end of the spectrum are so hostile to the "moral values" explanation of Bush's "win".
Whether or not it's true, it would actually be, for me, the most comforting explanation, in a weird way. Given that "moral values" is a code word for gay and abortion rights, the fact that Bush won because of gays and abortion, while sad in what it says about our country, at least would mean that there wasn't anything we could have done differently to win the election.
Of course, that doesn't mean the "moral values" explanation is the right one; but I just don't get why it seems to bother some Democrats so much.
Wow. Now I'm in charge of heaven. I own it.
Just think of all the people, not just Democrats, you can keep out.
Jerry Falwell springs to mind...
Wow. Now I'm in charge of heaven. I own it.
Just think of all the people, not just Democrats, you can keep out.
Jerry Falwell springs to mind...
Mr. Cool Guy - you can accept it quietly if you like. I have no intention of doing that.
I meant that as more of a prediction about what most people will actually do.
Sad but true, I fear.
Mr. Cool Guy - you can accept it quietly if you like. I have no intention of doing that.
I meant that as more of a prediction about what most people will actually do.
Sad but true, I fear.
And speaking or "moral issue" Billy James Hargis is dead
I trust some of you may remember the Christian anti-communist crusader, brought low by Dat Ol' Debble Sex.
There was this real nice couple attending Bily James' "College" who were planning to marry and sought his aide as -- being the pure Christian innocents they were -- they knew nothing about sex.
So Billy James explained it all -- by taking them both to bed with him!
And speaking or "moral issue" Billy James Hargis is dead
I trust some of you may remember the Christian anti-communist crusader, brought low by Dat Ol' Debble Sex.
There was this real nice couple attending Bily James' "College" who were planning to marry and sought his aide as -- being the pure Christian innocents they were -- they knew nothing about sex.
So Billy James explained it all -- by taking them both to bed with him!
RMJ,
please, please, please, I promise I'll go away. Just be honest with me.
Tell me your truth! Do you not have any conviction? Which of the many on high is your God?
Is it Yahweh? Allah? Just give me a hint and I'll go back to my own little hell.
"shorter da trufe is rob: how come no one cares he will burn in hell"
Uh, don't you all have sympathy for me ? Heaven is earth palerino, and so is hell!
I spend all day there. In reality.
Puny and insignificant, rare and precious, that's me. Just like you!
RMJ,
please, please, please, I promise I'll go away. Just be honest with me.
Tell me your truth! Do you not have any conviction? Which of the many on high is your God?
Is it Yahweh? Allah? Just give me a hint and I'll go back to my own little hell.
"shorter da trufe is rob: how come no one cares he will burn in hell"
Uh, don't you all have sympathy for me ? Heaven is earth palerino, and so is hell!
I spend all day there. In reality.
Puny and insignificant, rare and precious, that's me. Just like you!
Just think of all the people, not just Democrats, you can keep out.
Jerry Falwell springs to mind...
If there is an afterlife, and I meet Falwell there, it can only mean one of us is in the wrong place.
That, or I got what I deserved.
Just think of all the people, not just Democrats, you can keep out.
Jerry Falwell springs to mind...
If there is an afterlife, and I meet Falwell there, it can only mean one of us is in the wrong place.
That, or I got what I deserved.
It seems that even the Freepers are tuning in to Falwell's hypocrisy and power hunger. (with the exception of the ones who spell like rob)
I say let the media shine a light on him and allow Americans see more of him.
from the Freeper thread on the Sunday talking-head shows:
To: secret garden
McCain had starring roles in last week's episode(s)...think he gets a week off in between?? 
Jerry Falwell? GAG...he doesn't do the Republican Party any good.
26 posted on 11/28/2004 6:04:56 AM PST by SE Mom (God Bless our troops.)
To: SE Mom
Gerry Fallwell is invited on to represent Republicans exactly because he doesn't represent Republicans. This passes for subtlety in the bias of the left wing media-it's about as subtle as a sledge hammer!
43 posted on 11/28/2004 6:38:02 AM PST by ananda
To: SE Mom
Jerry Falwell? GAG...he doesn't do the Republican Party any good.
Reverand Falwell helped build the moderan day Conservative movement. Dont believe the Mainstream Press lies about him. Reverand Falwell took a stand against the Radical Left when no one else would. Constantly he has rallied Christian voters behind Bush, and helped get him re-elected.
And what have you done to re-elect Bush?
107 posted on 11/28/2004 2:26:40 PM PST by M 91 u2 K
Also Tena,
Do you have a link for the Dallas 1% Bush mandate?
It seems that even the Freepers are tuning in to Falwell's hypocrisy and power hunger. (with the exception of the ones who spell like rob)
I say let the media shine a light on him and allow Americans see more of him.
from the Freeper thread on the Sunday talking-head shows:
To: secret garden
McCain had starring roles in last week's episode(s)...think he gets a week off in between??
Jerry Falwell? GAG...he doesn't do the Republican Party any good.
26 posted on 11/28/2004 6:04:56 AM PST by SE Mom (God Bless our troops.)
To: SE Mom
Gerry Fallwell is invited on to represent Republicans exactly because he doesn't represent Republicans. This passes for subtlety in the bias of the left wing media-it's about as subtle as a sledge hammer!
43 posted on 11/28/2004 6:38:02 AM PST by ananda
To: SE Mom
Jerry Falwell? GAG...he doesn't do the Republican Party any good.
Reverand Falwell helped build the moderan day Conservative movement. Dont believe the Mainstream Press lies about him. Reverand Falwell took a stand against the Radical Left when no one else would. Constantly he has rallied Christian voters behind Bush, and helped get him re-elected.
And what have you done to re-elect Bush?
107 posted on 11/28/2004 2:26:40 PM PST by M 91 u2 K
Also Tena,
Do you have a link for the Dallas 1% Bush mandate?
David E - I keep thinking about that couple who are involved in orgies who are Repug ops. There don't seem to be many on the right who do more than talk the talk.
And the more talking they do, the more suspicious I get about what they are really up to. And nine times out of ten, they are up to things that they are howling about others getting up to.
David E - I keep thinking about that couple who are involved in orgies who are Repug ops. There don't seem to be many on the right who do more than talk the talk.
And the more talking they do, the more suspicious I get about what they are really up to. And nine times out of ten, they are up to things that they are howling about others getting up to.
bin Laden is attacking us because he himself says we are immoral.
The fact that Bush pretends to the morality cloak and the top target of bin Laden is...Bush's enemies....I see a pattern here, no?
bin Laden is attacking us because he himself says we are immoral.
The fact that Bush pretends to the morality cloak and the top target of bin Laden is...Bush's enemies....I see a pattern here, no?
"not a person of your word" RMJ
the high and mighty priests are judging again!
oh, but you are a person of "the" word.
your a terrorist to me pal. no more.
Jesus Christ gave you a command: "love one another."
now get back to it, and leave the sheeple alone.
"not a person of your word" RMJ
the high and mighty priests are judging again!
oh, but you are a person of "the" word.
your a terrorist to me pal. no more.
Jesus Christ gave you a command: "love one another."
now get back to it, and leave the sheeple alone.
"He who cloaks himself in morality is merely hiding his immorality"
Guess who said that?
"He who cloaks himself in morality is merely hiding his immorality"
Guess who said that?
now get back to it, and leave the sheeple alone.
well, at least he's an equal opportunity condescender....
now get back to it, and leave the sheeple alone.
well, at least he's an equal opportunity condescender....
Do you have a link for the Dallas 1% Bush mandate?
Ask and you shall receive. If you want Houston, change county to Harris. Not sure of counties for San Antonio or Austin.
Do you have a link for the Dallas 1% Bush mandate?
Ask and you shall receive. If you want Houston, change county to Harris. Not sure of counties for San Antonio or Austin.
Nota - That's what the election authority in Dallas County told us when I went to a wrap up meeting for ElectionProtection '04. Bruce Sherbert, who is in charge of all elections in Dallas County was invited and was asked. He told us that, and it was repeated by the local state party wonk, who was there. Sherbert also told us that early voting was being investigated. It was all done on touch screens and serious questions were raised.
The Washington Post had a piece on the election in Texas the week after the election, and it had the numbers, too. I don't have that link, sorry.
Nota - That's what the election authority in Dallas County told us when I went to a wrap up meeting for ElectionProtection '04. Bruce Sherbert, who is in charge of all elections in Dallas County was invited and was asked. He told us that, and it was repeated by the local state party wonk, who was there. Sherbert also told us that early voting was being investigated. It was all done on touch screens and serious questions were raised.
The Washington Post had a piece on the election in Texas the week after the election, and it had the numbers, too. I don't have that link, sorry.
about Unitarian Universalists--they have an ability to laugh at themselves.
They actually tell UU jokes.
Here's one.
Lady walks into a fabric shop and asks for ten yards of material.
Shopkeeper says, "You got it. So, whatcha making with that?"
Lady says, "A nightgown."
Shopkeeper: "How many?"
Lady, holding up her index finger: "You heard right. One. Uno. Eins."
Shopkeeper, boggled by this, says, "Ten yards of material for a single nightgown? Not that it's any of my business, but 'sup with that?"
Lady answers, with a faint sadness in her voice, "Well, you see, my husband is a Unitarian Universalist. And he would rather seek than find."
I didn't say they were funny jokes.
about Unitarian Universalists--they have an ability to laugh at themselves.
They actually tell UU jokes.
Here's one.
Lady walks into a fabric shop and asks for ten yards of material.
Shopkeeper says, "You got it. So, whatcha making with that?"
Lady says, "A nightgown."
Shopkeeper: "How many?"
Lady, holding up her index finger: "You heard right. One. Uno. Eins."
Shopkeeper, boggled by this, says, "Ten yards of material for a single nightgown? Not that it's any of my business, but 'sup with that?"
Lady answers, with a faint sadness in her voice, "Well, you see, my husband is a Unitarian Universalist. And he would rather seek than find."
I didn't say they were funny jokes.
chris/tx - thank you.
chris/tx - thank you.
In his latest book, Mark Crispin Miller writes, "How could we, as a nation, have so thoroughly devolved, going from George Washington to George Bush?
For the framers, many factors were crucial to the maintenance of American democracy: freedom of expression, habeas corpus, separation of powers, the disentanglement of church and state-and civic virtue,
which impels the people to defend democracy against whatever enemy would threaten it.
As we have seen, our basic rights are now at risk.
Their fate and ours, depends on an immediate revival of the only institution left among us to enable the survival of our system: the U.S.press."
Well I think we all know that means we are seriously screwed, unless Babs, Steve, Tom, etal open up their wallets and construct a mighty wurlitzer we can call our own.
The rest of us could contribute whatever we can responsibly afford-ten dollars here and ten dollars there-as we did to the Kerry campaign.
In other words, boys and girls, let's put on a show!!
In his latest book, Mark Crispin Miller writes, "How could we, as a nation, have so thoroughly devolved, going from George Washington to George Bush?
For the framers, many factors were crucial to the maintenance of American democracy: freedom of expression, habeas corpus, separation of powers, the disentanglement of church and state-and civic virtue,
which impels the people to defend democracy against whatever enemy would threaten it.
As we have seen, our basic rights are now at risk.
Their fate and ours, depends on an immediate revival of the only institution left among us to enable the survival of our system: the U.S.press."
Well I think we all know that means we are seriously screwed, unless Babs, Steve, Tom, etal open up their wallets and construct a mighty wurlitzer we can call our own.
The rest of us could contribute whatever we can responsibly afford-ten dollars here and ten dollars there-as we did to the Kerry campaign.
In other words, boys and girls, let's put on a show!!
If you want Houston, change county to Harris. Not sure of counties for San Antonio or Austin./I>
Bexar and Travis, respectively.
If you want Houston, change county to Harris. Not sure of counties for San Antonio or Austin./I>
Bexar and Travis, respectively.
Robert M. Jeffers,
He's an idiot who's been trolling around here for a week or so under various names. No one here associates you with the Radical Clerics or could ever doubt your sincerity. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
Robert M. Jeffers,
He's an idiot who's been trolling around here for a week or so under various names. No one here associates you with the Radical Clerics or could ever doubt your sincerity. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
Again, in the interest of mental health, I highly recommend that everyone ignore "da trufe is rob." You will not get a coherent argument out of it.
Again, in the interest of mental health, I highly recommend that everyone ignore "da trufe is rob." You will not get a coherent argument out of it.
He's an idiot who's been trolling around here for a week or so under various names. No one here associates you with the Radical Clerics or could ever doubt your sincerity. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
Thanks, Hecate. I know better than to feed 'em, but then I find myself doing it and dragging down the discourse for the whole community.
Gotta go anyway, to teach a class, but I'll ignore him from now on. (Hopefully).
He's an idiot who's been trolling around here for a week or so under various names. No one here associates you with the Radical Clerics or could ever doubt your sincerity. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
Thanks, Hecate. I know better than to feed 'em, but then I find myself doing it and dragging down the discourse for the whole community.
Gotta go anyway, to teach a class, but I'll ignore him from now on. (Hopefully).
RMJ,
you show extraordinary cowardice here, falling back on offensice rhetoric to avoid my very simple question.
Try, try, type it out. Put your faith down. Who is your God? I want to know your judgment metrics.
Enough parsing my comments likea straw man. Answer the friggin question.
Who is you god?
RMJ,
you show extraordinary cowardice here, falling back on offensice rhetoric to avoid my very simple question.
Try, try, type it out. Put your faith down. Who is your God? I want to know your judgment metrics.
Enough parsing my comments likea straw man. Answer the friggin question.
Who is you god?
Don't know if this makes a difference or not, but after reading this article this a.m. I went to the one million moms website and used their e-mail links to write to denounce their coercive campaigns and let their targets know while they may be loud, they don't represent all moms. I think a few "attaboy's" might stiffen the spine of these advertisers and networks. Anyhow, the million moms website said to tell at least one other person about their loony website. So this is a start.
Don't know if this makes a difference or not, but after reading this article this a.m. I went to the one million moms website and used their e-mail links to write to denounce their coercive campaigns and let their targets know while they may be loud, they don't represent all moms. I think a few "attaboy's" might stiffen the spine of these advertisers and networks. Anyhow, the million moms website said to tell at least one other person about their loony website. So this is a start.
Tena - Your welcome. I found the link yesterday when someone was calling Houston a bunch of Bush backers. Houston voted 45% for Kerry, and this with Poppy having a presence here for over forty years.
Tena - Your welcome. I found the link yesterday when someone was calling Houston a bunch of Bush backers. Houston voted 45% for Kerry, and this with Poppy having a presence here for over forty years.
That, or I got what I deserved.
Robert M. Jeffers
Nah, not you, but your Christianity has been placed directly in the pathway of a human rights movement. Those like me aren't attacing you personally because we don't dislike you but we're left with no other choice than to attack your belief system which should have long ago reconciled with us but hasn't and we're trapped in this eventual conclusion and we will win even if it take the ashes of 6 million gays like me, sadly.
That, or I got what I deserved.
Robert M. Jeffers
Nah, not you, but your Christianity has been placed directly in the pathway of a human rights movement. Those like me aren't attacing you personally because we don't dislike you but we're left with no other choice than to attack your belief system which should have long ago reconciled with us but hasn't and we're trapped in this eventual conclusion and we will win even if it take the ashes of 6 million gays like me, sadly.
Is El Paso in El Paso County? I can't recall, but someone here said that El Paso went totally Democratic in the election.
Is El Paso in El Paso County? I can't recall, but someone here said that El Paso went totally Democratic in the election.
There goes the witch, calling people names again. Nice! What various names do I spew the truth with dear Hecate?
Da trufe is beauty, beauty is da trufe.
Stop wasting your intellect.
I love that you'v got a priest on board now though. Should bolster your "morality"
"religion is the opiate of the masses."
smoke it up!
There goes the witch, calling people names again. Nice! What various names do I spew the truth with dear Hecate?
Da trufe is beauty, beauty is da trufe.
Stop wasting your intellect.
I love that you'v got a priest on board now though. Should bolster your "morality"
"religion is the opiate of the masses."
smoke it up!
1 Canadian Dollar = 0.85 United States Dollar
1 Canadian Dollar = 0.85 United States Dollar
kmc - Wow. That's what we need - about 60 million of you.
chris/tx - Yep and I've been hooted at for suggesting that the numbers show that Texas is trending back to being a Democratic state. But the numbers are right. We were solidly Democratic for a long long time and we have turned the corner and are headed back in that direction.
Thank you, Gov. Goodhair, Tom Delay and George Bush for finally making it unbearable enough here that people have had it.
kmc - Wow. That's what we need - about 60 million of you.
chris/tx - Yep and I've been hooted at for suggesting that the numbers show that Texas is trending back to being a Democratic state. But the numbers are right. We were solidly Democratic for a long long time and we have turned the corner and are headed back in that direction.
Thank you, Gov. Goodhair, Tom Delay and George Bush for finally making it unbearable enough here that people have had it.
Just look at the record, Tena:
Rush Limbaugh is a drug addict.
William Bennett is a compulsive gambler.
"Dr." Laura is a nymphomaniac
And John Fund got his mistress' daughter pregnant -- and demanded that she get an abortion!
It has yet to be established whether or not he was the young woman's father.
Just look at the record, Tena:
Rush Limbaugh is a drug addict.
William Bennett is a compulsive gambler.
"Dr." Laura is a nymphomaniac
And John Fund got his mistress' daughter pregnant -- and demanded that she get an abortion!
It has yet to be established whether or not he was the young woman's father.
we will win even if it take the ashes of 6 million gays like me, sadly.
Can you say, drama queen?
we will win even if it take the ashes of 6 million gays like me, sadly.
Can you say, drama queen?
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock.
That was Jimmy Swaggert, not Racist Radical Cleric Jerry Falwell.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock.
That was Jimmy Swaggert, not Racist Radical Cleric Jerry Falwell.
Georgie Anne Geyer:
After Nuremberg, you recall we didn't hang the German "Soldaten," we hung the "Generalen." That was the right idea then, and it's the right idea now.
Read the whole piece...
Georgie Anne Geyer:
After Nuremberg, you recall we didn't hang the German "Soldaten," we hung the "Generalen." That was the right idea then, and it's the right idea now.
Read the whole piece...
Incog - The Buddha taught that one should not mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself. You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
Incog - The Buddha taught that one should not mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself. You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
I think you're remembering Jimmy Swaggart, not Falwell, after Jimmy was caught picking up a hooker on Airline Highway outside New Orleans.
I still remember seeing him on TV with tears streaming down his face declaring that he was a "sinner" And begging forgiveness from his flock. Gah.
I think you're remembering Jimmy Swaggart, not Falwell, after Jimmy was caught picking up a hooker on Airline Highway outside New Orleans.
Sooner or later reality will catch up in the form of significant climate change impacts. In fact, what we and the rest of the world do to address this is probably the biggest ethical issue ever because of the consequences to the billions of us here now and those who will come after.
We've got about ten years to change the way the world consumes its energy resources. Even with major intervention right now, the fact is we are all facing down the barrel of Mother Nature's gun. The G-8 is on to this, and will be holding a climate conference early next year. They are moving forward without the US.
In the meanwhile, we can keep fiddling here in this country and on this site, wondering how to address the fundies on the issue of gay marriage or churchgoing, or we can partner with those who are rolling up their sleeves and getting at the task of probably human history's most momentous disaster roaring our collective way.
This is what the Democrats should be talking about. This is moral values writ large.
Sooner or later reality will catch up in the form of significant climate change impacts. In fact, what we and the rest of the world do to address this is probably the biggest ethical issue ever because of the consequences to the billions of us here now and those who will come after.
We've got about ten years to change the way the world consumes its energy resources. Even with major intervention right now, the fact is we are all facing down the barrel of Mother Nature's gun. The G-8 is on to this, and will be holding a climate conference early next year. They are moving forward without the US.
In the meanwhile, we can keep fiddling here in this country and on this site, wondering how to address the fundies on the issue of gay marriage or churchgoing, or we can partner with those who are rolling up their sleeves and getting at the task of probably human history's most momentous disaster roaring our collective way.
This is what the Democrats should be talking about. This is moral values writ large.
You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
Incog kinda has a habit of doing that.
Misplaced anger, I think.
You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
Incog kinda has a habit of doing that.
Misplaced anger, I think.
have you all seen Michael Kinsley on this:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opin...omment-
opinions
"Why does an ideological position become sacrosanct just because it gets labeled as a "value"? There are serious arguments and sincere passions on both sides of the gay marriage debate. For some reason, the views of those who feel that marriage requires a man and a woman are considered to be a "value," while the views of those who believe that gay relationships deserve the same legal standing as straight ones barely qualifies as an opinion."
have you all seen Michael Kinsley on this:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opin...omment-
opinions
"Why does an ideological position become sacrosanct just because it gets labeled as a "value"? There are serious arguments and sincere passions on both sides of the gay marriage debate. For some reason, the views of those who feel that marriage requires a man and a woman are considered to be a "value," while the views of those who believe that gay relationships deserve the same legal standing as straight ones barely qualifies as an opinion."
Is El Paso in El Paso County?
Yep (just looked it up in my handy "The roads of Texas" atlas).
El Paso voted same as Austin, 56% for Kerry. San Antonio voted same as Houston, 55% for Bush.
Is El Paso in El Paso County?
Yep (just looked it up in my handy "The roads of Texas" atlas).
El Paso voted same as Austin, 56% for Kerry. San Antonio voted same as Houston, 55% for Bush.
You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
When will they stop practicing and go for the real thing, though?
You are mistaking some people who practice Christianity for Christianity itself.
When will they stop practicing and go for the real thing, though?
"Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006."
Hecate
Not unless we have some form of accountability in the voting process.
Let's face it, they control the machines, if we can't get control of the process, the rethugs will just consolidate their power in 2006.
Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform.
"Well, at least two more years. We can hope for a turn-around at the mid-terms in 2006."
Hecate
Not unless we have some form of accountability in the voting process.
Let's face it, they control the machines, if we can't get control of the process, the rethugs will just consolidate their power in 2006.
Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform.
David E - You know, it never fails, really. It is so entirely predictable. People like Falwell and Swaggert are really just televangelists on a large scale and they are invariably the biggest hypocrites in the world. It would almost be funny, if they hadn't gotten such a big pulpit to preach at us from. The damned media is to blame for that. And George Bush, for pretending to take them seriously in order to get them to vote for him.
David E - You know, it never fails, really. It is so entirely predictable. People like Falwell and Swaggert are really just televangelists on a large scale and they are invariably the biggest hypocrites in the world. It would almost be funny, if they hadn't gotten such a big pulpit to preach at us from. The damned media is to blame for that. And George Bush, for pretending to take them seriously in order to get them to vote for him.
I'll say it again: Hatred and bigotry are NOT moral values.
Out of respect for Tena, I won't mention the moron thing, though...
I'll say it again: Hatred and bigotry are NOT moral values.
Out of respect for Tena, I won't mention the moron thing, though...
Thanks chris/tx and Tena,
It seems clear that the main divide is between the urban and rural voters. Those who see what government can do for them and those who live outside.
I missed a lot of info on the election. I was in China, with limited internet access. The worst thing was that all blogspot sites were blocked. Only got some CNNi and an English language China channel. Horrible to be away and only with people who wanted explanations for the unexplainable.
Thanks chris/tx and Tena,
It seems clear that the main divide is between the urban and rural voters. Those who see what government can do for them and those who live outside.
I missed a lot of info on the election. I was in China, with limited internet access. The worst thing was that all blogspot sites were blocked. Only got some CNNi and an English language China channel. Horrible to be away and only with people who wanted explanations for the unexplainable.
chris/tx - Thank you, you are a clearinghouse of info this morning. I really appreciate it.
chris/tx - Thank you, you are a clearinghouse of info this morning. I really appreciate it.
Ignore da trufe?
Bobby, bobby, bobby.
You've been doing that for too long!
stuck in a fantasy that has instituted violence and intolerance.
and now your going to teach a class.
those poor suckers. show them thy judgemental way.
Ignore da trufe?
Bobby, bobby, bobby.
You've been doing that for too long!
stuck in a fantasy that has instituted violence and intolerance.
and now your going to teach a class.
those poor suckers. show them thy judgemental way.
Sooner or later reality will catch up in the form of significant climate change impacts. In fact, what we and the rest of the world do to address this is probably the biggest ethical issue ever because of the consequences to the billions of us here now and those who will come after.
haven't you heard? Climate change is good! More fish for the people!
The International Policy Network will publish its long-awaited study, claiming that the science warning of an environmental disaster caused by climate change is 'fatally flawed'. It will state that previous predictions of changes in sea level of a metre over the next 100 years were overestimates.
Instead, the report will say that sea level rises will reach a maximum of just 20cms during the next century, adding that global warming could, in fact, benefit mankind by increasing fish stocks.
(PS This study was partially funded by Exxon.)
Sooner or later reality will catch up in the form of significant climate change impacts. In fact, what we and the rest of the world do to address this is probably the biggest ethical issue ever because of the consequences to the billions of us here now and those who will come after.
haven't you heard? Climate change is good! More fish for the people!
The International Policy Network will publish its long-awaited study, claiming that the science warning of an environmental disaster caused by climate change is 'fatally flawed'. It will state that previous predictions of changes in sea level of a metre over the next 100 years were overestimates.
Instead, the report will say that sea level rises will reach a maximum of just 20cms during the next century, adding that global warming could, in fact, benefit mankind by increasing fish stocks.
(PS This study was partially funded by Exxon.)
dave - I really do love you, you know.
dave - I really do love you, you know.
From that Rich thing, I esp. liked this outraged comment from Big Pharm: "...I mean, there are some guys with their kids that sit down to watch 'Monday Night Football."
I didn't know they let kids into bars!
From that Rich thing, I esp. liked this outraged comment from Big Pharm: "...I mean, there are some guys with their kids that sit down to watch 'Monday Night Football."
I didn't know they let kids into bars!
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop. What's new about Desperate Housewives? (although, it would be interesting to see where D.H. loses points after the MNF bit where white babe throws herself at black stud.)
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop. What's new about Desperate Housewives? (although, it would be interesting to see where D.H. loses points after the MNF bit where white babe throws herself at black stud.)
"When will they stop practicing and go for the real thing, though?"
When they finally get it right, which I estimate will be somewhere around 500 years from now.
"When will they stop practicing and go for the real thing, though?"
When they finally get it right, which I estimate will be somewhere around 500 years from now.
...I really do love you, you know.
*blush!*
...I really do love you, you know.
*blush!*
- some critics criticized its graphic violence, while others branded it anti-Semitic.
watertiger
Seen it, it's disgustingly pornographic and obviously anti-Semitic. It's also a prime example of misogyny. Mel has really got a problem with women, hasn't he.
Christianity not just one thing. It is a word that is used to mean everything from the most liberal, if not radical Christian Quakers, UUs, etc. to the openly Nazi identity cults. To pretend that the first are in some real way related to the latter is not only entirely unjust but it is worse than useless. Liberals should cultivate the friends we have in the Christian churches.
A good example of why this is true is in the breaching of the Black-Jewish alliance for progress on civil rights. It was never as deep a breach as the establishment press hoped but to the extent that the two communities were fighting with each oter it didn't improve things. This was particularly bad since it came exactly the same time as what progress that had been made was under attack.
Gay people are not numerous enough, rich enough or united enough to make progress without Christians and other groups. To let the fascists seperate us from our friends and natural allies is to do their work for them.
- some critics criticized its graphic violence, while others branded it anti-Semitic.
watertiger
Seen it, it's disgustingly pornographic and obviously anti-Semitic. It's also a prime example of misogyny. Mel has really got a problem with women, hasn't he.
Christianity not just one thing. It is a word that is used to mean everything from the most liberal, if not radical Christian Quakers, UUs, etc. to the openly Nazi identity cults. To pretend that the first are in some real way related to the latter is not only entirely unjust but it is worse than useless. Liberals should cultivate the friends we have in the Christian churches.
A good example of why this is true is in the breaching of the Black-Jewish alliance for progress on civil rights. It was never as deep a breach as the establishment press hoped but to the extent that the two communities were fighting with each oter it didn't improve things. This was particularly bad since it came exactly the same time as what progress that had been made was under attack.
Gay people are not numerous enough, rich enough or united enough to make progress without Christians and other groups. To let the fascists seperate us from our friends and natural allies is to do their work for them.
krsaz - "Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform."
God, you are so right. If that isn't at the top of our list, it better get put there right now.
The single biggest problem we face is not the media or other Americans - it is this criminal conspiracy of a Repug party that is stealing elections one after another.
I want trials. I want scandal. I want it all out in the open, I don't care who is guilty - whether Dems or Repugs or 3d parties. Every bit of it needs to be aired, discussed and acted on.
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
krsaz - "Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform."
God, you are so right. If that isn't at the top of our list, it better get put there right now.
The single biggest problem we face is not the media or other Americans - it is this criminal conspiracy of a Repug party that is stealing elections one after another.
I want trials. I want scandal. I want it all out in the open, I don't care who is guilty - whether Dems or Repugs or 3d parties. Every bit of it needs to be aired, discussed and acted on.
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop.
Fuck that. Watch the soaps. Wanna expose the brownshirt crowd for the crass hypocrites they are? Start bitching about "All My Children."
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop.
Fuck that. Watch the soaps. Wanna expose the brownshirt crowd for the crass hypocrites they are? Start bitching about "All My Children."
Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform.
krsaz | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 11:17 am
No one posting here will live long enough to ever get election reform; cuz the current system works so well.
NO significant group of incumbents in EITHER party will achieve or even push hard for changes to the system which got them elected...That's why BOTH 'parties' used to oppose expanding the franchise (which is no longer relevant, btw)...
Rather than bitch about democrats or republicans, we need to be bitching about election reform.
krsaz | Email | Homepage | 11.29.04 - 11:17 am
No one posting here will live long enough to ever get election reform; cuz the current system works so well.
NO significant group of incumbents in EITHER party will achieve or even push hard for changes to the system which got them elected...That's why BOTH 'parties' used to oppose expanding the franchise (which is no longer relevant, btw)...
If all Democrats could do this, the talk in the nation will turn to the real matters at hand.
Elaine Supkis
You have to appreciate the difference between "all the talk in the nation" and "the chatter in the media". I gotta tell ya, there is plenty of talk in the country right now... plenty. I can't talk to anyone, even the formerly non-political, without some manifestation of, "Wow, deeply shitty times we're living in, hey? And that election... it was SO stolen!"
It just doesn't matter, because in the nation's mainstream media voice, there are Official Topics, vs. stuff which either does not exist at all(Officially), or which, at best, is good for a kicker about them tinfoil hat types. And that's, as Uncle Walter once advised us, the way it is.
After having been a student of the media virtually my whole life, it only really came home to me how the entire operation worked, somewhere around 1989-1990. The television stations in Houston, Texas were just getting around to that sensationalist approach we're now used to, where things that have nothing to do with real day-to-day life are made to seem like an imminent crisis, for which only they have the solution to save your family (Oh my God! I'm gonna get hit any minute by a fatal case of mad cow disease. Crisis!)
At the time, we had not yet gotten used to being bombarded daily by all this scary nonsense, so with the help of Channels 2, 11 and 13, you found yourself panicking at the first sign of a hurricane somewhere out in the Gulf; buying-out the hardware stores and taping the windows... nobody in town could talk about anything else, because the DIALOGUE was being conducted on TV. And that included the trajectory of said hurricane and the likelihood of its actually coming close, let alone destroying a major American city. Which we all KNEW was imminent!!
Eventually, the red light here went off for me. For at least a year, TV news had been filled with one story, after another, after another, after another... about CRIME. To watch the tube, honestly, you would have thought that you simply could not leave the house without crazed gangs of roving black youths attacking and killing you.
And then came the marischino cherry: the continuing story of the "kick-in burglars". These bold thugs would supposedly come right to your door, right there in the suburban peripheries of the city, and show no concern whatsoever to the fact that you were locked to the hilt... they simply kicked your fucking door down! Every newscast!
I never thought, at the time, to research any crime statistics to see if violent street crime had actually increased (no internet and the paper just echoed the TV). But this was the DIALOGUE. Young black thugs... EVERYWHERE! Coming from behind the trees! Dropping out of the skies! Oh my God, we're all gonna die!
What was the upshot of this? Over the span of a year, the popular Democratic woman mayor of the city dropped like a rock in the polls. A
If all Democrats could do this, the talk in the nation will turn to the real matters at hand.
Elaine Supkis
You have to appreciate the difference between "all the talk in the nation" and "the chatter in the media". I gotta tell ya, there is plenty of talk in the country right now... plenty. I can't talk to anyone, even the formerly non-political, without some manifestation of, "Wow, deeply shitty times we're living in, hey? And that election... it was SO stolen!"
It just doesn't matter, because in the nation's mainstream media voice, there are Official Topics, vs. stuff which either does not exist at all(Officially), or which, at best, is good for a kicker about them tinfoil hat types. And that's, as Uncle Walter once advised us, the way it is.
After having been a student of the media virtually my whole life, it only really came home to me how the entire operation worked, somewhere around 1989-1990. The television stations in Houston, Texas were just getting around to that sensationalist approach we're now used to, where things that have nothing to do with real day-to-day life are made to seem like an imminent crisis, for which only they have the solution to save your family (Oh my God! I'm gonna get hit any minute by a fatal case of mad cow disease. Crisis!)
At the time, we had not yet gotten used to being bombarded daily by all this scary nonsense, so with the help of Channels 2, 11 and 13, you found yourself panicking at the first sign of a hurricane somewhere out in the Gulf; buying-out the hardware stores and taping the windows... nobody in town could talk about anything else, because the DIALOGUE was being conducted on TV. And that included the trajectory of said hurricane and the likelihood of its actually coming close, let alone destroying a major American city. Which we all KNEW was imminent!!
Eventually, the red light here went off for me. For at least a year, TV news had been filled with one story, after another, after another, after another... about CRIME. To watch the tube, honestly, you would have thought that you simply could not leave the house without crazed gangs of roving black youths attacking and killing you.
And then came the marischino cherry: the continuing story of the "kick-in burglars". These bold thugs would supposedly come right to your door, right there in the suburban peripheries of the city, and show no concern whatsoever to the fact that you were locked to the hilt... they simply kicked your fucking door down! Every newscast!
I never thought, at the time, to research any crime statistics to see if violent street crime had actually increased (no internet and the paper just echoed the TV). But this was the DIALOGUE. Young black thugs... EVERYWHERE! Coming from behind the trees! Dropping out of the skies! Oh my God, we're all gonna die!
What was the upshot of this? Over the span of a year, the popular Democratic woman mayor of the city dropped like a rock in the polls. A
RMJ could attack me, but he could not reveal his God. Typical.
Priests prefer to deal with weak minds, and little boys, who don't question their insane ways.
It's sad to see a brain of his size so rotten with the prejudice of religion.
But, that's what makes this nice little village!
And Hecate, no matter how you endeavor to ignore the truth, it never goes away.
RMJ could attack me, but he could not reveal his God. Typical.
Priests prefer to deal with weak minds, and little boys, who don't question their insane ways.
It's sad to see a brain of his size so rotten with the prejudice of religion.
But, that's what makes this nice little village!
And Hecate, no matter how you endeavor to ignore the truth, it never goes away.
da trufe is rob:
Will a man yet wallow in his sin, crying "forgive me, forgive me" O' Lord? and so trample on the cross that was born for him? So have you done. In this you have judged yourself, and the Lord has judged you also. In one day, in three, shall you know your judgement.
The Lord has judged you, and found you wanting.
Your fate has been determined.
da trufe is rob:
Will a man yet wallow in his sin, crying "forgive me, forgive me" O' Lord? and so trample on the cross that was born for him? So have you done. In this you have judged yourself, and the Lord has judged you also. In one day, in three, shall you know your judgement.
The Lord has judged you, and found you wanting.
Your fate has been determined.
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop.
Nice way of stating it. Not a big fan myself, however. Actually, not a fan at all. Although country lyricists certainly know how to turn a verse.
krsaz is right. It is all about election reform.
Why am I depressed all over again?
C&W music has always been torchier and steamier than mainstream pop.
Nice way of stating it. Not a big fan myself, however. Actually, not a fan at all. Although country lyricists certainly know how to turn a verse.
krsaz is right. It is all about election reform.
Why am I depressed all over again?
Incognito: re your post at 8:48. That is truly sad, because the hymns were the one good thing I brought away from church. There is something so truly uplifting in singing like that.
But I understand. I've been too depressed to post here for a few days. Mr. TJ and I are very worried about the future for our sons, and are slowly facing the fact that emigration may be the only answer.
Incognito: re your post at 8:48. That is truly sad, because the hymns were the one good thing I brought away from church. There is something so truly uplifting in singing like that.
But I understand. I've been too depressed to post here for a few days. Mr. TJ and I are very worried about the future for our sons, and are slowly facing the fact that emigration may be the only answer.
da trufe is--
Here's how you do it, RJM:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzz...
da trufe is--
Here's how you do it, RJM:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzz...
da trufe is rob
Very impressive posts Rob.
Thanks
da trufe is rob
Very impressive posts Rob.
Thanks
[cont'd]
A Republican real estate developer with the personality of an ashtray and ties to every business interest in Texas soundly trounced the mayor, and that was the end of Dem rule there.
A long story, yes, but this was the lab where they perfected it all. I was there. I saw it.
[cont'd]
A Republican real estate developer with the personality of an ashtray and ties to every business interest in Texas soundly trounced the mayor, and that was the end of Dem rule there.
A long story, yes, but this was the lab where they perfected it all. I was there. I saw it.
CNN Breaking News:
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
Just what the country needs, a cereal CEO in charge of commerce.
Snap! Crackle! Pop!
CNN Breaking News:
President Bush nominates Kellogg CEO Carlos Gutierrez to be secretary of Commerce
Just what the country needs, a cereal CEO in charge of commerce.
Snap! Crackle! Pop!
Why am I depressed all over again?
Because, like me and many others, you keep making that "getting out of bed" mistake, gotta stop doing that.
Why am I depressed all over again?
Because, like me and many others, you keep making that "getting out of bed" mistake, gotta stop doing that.
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
Shhhh!! Atrios will hear you and then he will throw a tantrum and shut down the blog.
Stop being so shrill!!
We need to throw a big fat fit over this election.
Shhhh!! Atrios will hear you and then he will throw a tantrum and shut down the blog.
Stop being so shrill!!
(oops, Haloscan picked up another name. Not that I care; I used it elsewhere as a smackdown...)
(oops, Haloscan picked up another name. Not that I care; I used it elsewhere as a smackdown...)
Fuck I gotta tolerate "liberal" Christianity which did nothing during the 80s while Falwell pranced about on stage condemning gays dying of AIDS many of whom where thrown out on the street while scaring Amorons about a "gay menace" and raking in millions if not billions, who knows. I have no use for any of them or their bogus belief system anymore.
Fuck I gotta tolerate "liberal" Christianity which did nothing during the 80s while Falwell pranced about on stage condemning gays dying of AIDS many of whom where thrown out on the street while scaring Amorons about a "gay menace" and raking in millions if not billions, who knows. I have no use for any of them or their bogus belief system anymore.
It seems clear that the main divide is between the urban and rural voters.
Nota - Exactly. The red/blue state meme is bullshit. Here is an excellent link to various election maps, scan down to the cartograms (compensate for large urban areas). Gives a much better picture than a topographical map.
It seems clear that the main divide is between the urban and rural voters.
Nota - Exactly. The red/blue state meme is bullshit. Here is an excellent link to various election maps, scan down to the cartograms (compensate for large urban areas). Gives a much better picture than a topographical map.
BTW, Tena, someone is Texas is going to have this hanging from their Christmas tree... don't know if they're a friend of yours, but it's funny how most of the products with this design are going to the Longhorn State!
BTW, Tena, someone is Texas is going to have this hanging from their Christmas tree... don't know if they're a friend of yours, but it's funny how most of the products with this design are going to the Longhorn State!
sorry folks, but I see religion as the downfall of humanity and the planet earth. so I fight it wherever I can.
the fact that Atrios chose a minister as his latest blogger just kills me.
Know thy enemy. Do not become him!
sorry folks, but I see religion as the downfall of humanity and the planet earth. so I fight it wherever I can.
the fact that Atrios chose a minister as his latest blogger just kills me.
Know thy enemy. Do not become him!
Sensitive - so true. They've perfected this art and we have got to realize that and push back where it will be affective.
Barry - They are still doing this in Dallas - one story after another about home invasion robberies - which are the rarest form of burglary/robbery out there. If not that, it is all about scaring the shit out of parents with hordes of "sexual predators."
It is crass sensationalism and I remember when it started, too.
Sensitive - so true. They've perfected this art and we have got to realize that and push back where it will be affective.
Barry - They are still doing this in Dallas - one story after another about home invasion robberies - which are the rarest form of burglary/robbery out there. If not that, it is all about scaring the shit out of parents with hordes of "sexual predators."
It is crass sensationalism and I remember when it started, too.