I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Good thing O'Reilley's around to defend xmas.
Good thing O'Reilley's around to defend xmas.
Second?
Second?
Ahem
goddamned puritans. Ev'ry one!
I always did have a soft spot for Charles II. 
Ahem
goddamned puritans. Ev'ry one!
I always did have a soft spot for Charles II.
If only O'Reilly had been on the scene to defend Christmas from those filthy commies, the Founding Fathers....
If only O'Reilly had been on the scene to defend Christmas from those filthy commies, the Founding Fathers....
Figures! my relatives date back to Jamestown. 
Look, I like christmas and all, but it's definitely gotten out of hand, and it's beginning to be a big fucking festival for religiosity.
I prefer it when the focus is on reindeer and elves myself.
Figures! my relatives date back to Jamestown.
Look, I like christmas and all, but it's definitely gotten out of hand, and it's beginning to be a big fucking festival for religiosity.
I prefer it when the focus is on reindeer and elves myself.
Wait a second here... I thought I heard some conservative say that we must celebrate Christmas and put x-trees everywhere b/c it was written into our constitution hmmm...
Help me figure it out here: www.politicalthought.net
Wait a second here... I thought I heard some conservative say that we must celebrate Christmas and put x-trees everywhere b/c it was written into our constitution hmmm...
Help me figure it out here: www.politicalthought.net
And yet today's wingnuts seem to admire the Puritans-- the people who, IIRC, came here because religious freedom in the Netherlands wasn't as much fun as religious self-government-- more than the great minds of the Enlightenment that actually formed this nation. Go figure.
And yet today's wingnuts seem to admire the Puritans-- the people who, IIRC, came here because religious freedom in the Netherlands wasn't as much fun as religious self-government-- more than the great minds of the Enlightenment that actually formed this nation. Go figure.
Christmas, bitches!
Christmas, bitches!
Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
What did the children do?
Ah, corporate America.
Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
What did the children do?
Ah, corporate America.
Deck us all with Boston Charlie
Wallah Wallah Wash, an' Kalamazoo.
Norah's freezin' on the trolley
Boolah boolah Pensacoola Alleygaroo.
Don't we know archaic barrel,
Lullaby, Lilla Boy, Louisville Lou.
Trolley Molley don't love Harold,
Boolah boolah Pensacoola hullabaloo!
Deck us all with Boston Charlie
Wallah Wallah Wash, an' Kalamazoo.
Norah's freezin' on the trolley
Boolah boolah Pensacoola Alleygaroo.
Don't we know archaic barrel,
Lullaby, Lilla Boy, Louisville Lou.
Trolley Molley don't love Harold,
Boolah boolah Pensacoola hullabaloo!
I prefer it when the focus is on reindeer and elves myself.
I'm with you.
I prefer it when the focus is on reindeer and elves myself.
I'm with you.
Well come on, it's obvious, isn't it? Those Christmas-haters were the original Massachusetts liberals. Now down in the good old south they always celebrated Christmas.
-- Stu
Well come on, it's obvious, isn't it? Those Christmas-haters were the original Massachusetts liberals. Now down in the good old south they always celebrated Christmas.
-- Stu
Like I've always said, if the founding fathers had intended for the US to be a "Christian" nation, they would have renamed it "Jesusland."
Like I've always said, if the founding fathers had intended for the US to be a "Christian" nation, they would have renamed it "Jesusland."
Well, no other religions get a federal holiday. People of other religions who want time off must take a vacation day or take time off with no pay.
Also, Christmas is not a holiday for many people - doctors, nurses, police officers, fire fighters, sewer workers, etc.
Well, no other religions get a federal holiday. People of other religions who want time off must take a vacation day or take time off with no pay.
Also, Christmas is not a holiday for many people - doctors, nurses, police officers, fire fighters, sewer workers, etc.
C'mon, why are the Christians so mad?
After all, Christ has nothing to do with Christmas.
Also, and is it rude that I laugh everytime I pass a neighbors yard, where they have santa's sleigh landing on the roof of the Nativity Scene?
Some people just need more egg nog.
C'mon, why are the Christians so mad?
After all, Christ has nothing to do with Christmas.
Also, and is it rude that I laugh everytime I pass a neighbors yard, where they have santa's sleigh landing on the roof of the Nativity Scene?
Some people just need more egg nog.
You forget to mention that Christmas was not a religious holiday in those times, but the secular remnant of a pagan one celebrated by feasting and carolling, drunkenness and pranks. The commemoration of the birth of Christ was moved to December 25 from its historical date sometime during the spring, with the hope that it would tone down the revelling and eliminate the pagan rituals. The actual History channel special does mention this stuff. My point is that the holiday banned by the Puritans was not the same one celebrated today. At some point it became two things: on one hand an austere Christian religious celebration of Christ's birth and on the other hand a consumer-oriented holiday of gift-giving and other money-spending. Attempts to cut down on the latter seem to be perceived as an attack on the former. It is obvious who has won that fight in our capitalist economy. Now Christmas seems to be co-opted as a battleground over whether a religious majority gets to dominate expressions in secular domains. I see this as a power play by the religious right. The major denominations aren't involved in this issue much. Instead, conservative evangelicals seem to be trying to take advantage of the sentimental support for Christmas as a time to indulge children.
I was astonished by the movie Christmas with the Kranks because of its defense of the consumerism of Christmas. Its message is that if you try to spend less money you will become an outcast among friends and neighbors because you are selfish. The idea of anyone spending $6000 on Christmas boggles my mind, as did the things the movie seems to suggest we should all be doing. Our economy would topple if we ever became seriously religious in our celebration of Christmas. Or is this just another example of how warped our view of Christ's teachings have become -- that He would look kindly on this kind of celebration of his birth while there is still poverty in both the world and our neighborhoods?
You forget to mention that Christmas was not a religious holiday in those times, but the secular remnant of a pagan one celebrated by feasting and carolling, drunkenness and pranks. The commemoration of the birth of Christ was moved to December 25 from its historical date sometime during the spring, with the hope that it would tone down the revelling and eliminate the pagan rituals. The actual History channel special does mention this stuff. My point is that the holiday banned by the Puritans was not the same one celebrated today. At some point it became two things: on one hand an austere Christian religious celebration of Christ's birth and on the other hand a consumer-oriented holiday of gift-giving and other money-spending. Attempts to cut down on the latter seem to be perceived as an attack on the former. It is obvious who has won that fight in our capitalist economy. Now Christmas seems to be co-opted as a battleground over whether a religious majority gets to dominate expressions in secular domains. I see this as a power play by the religious right. The major denominations aren't involved in this issue much. Instead, conservative evangelicals seem to be trying to take advantage of the sentimental support for Christmas as a time to indulge children.
I was astonished by the movie Christmas with the Kranks because of its defense of the consumerism of Christmas. Its message is that if you try to spend less money you will become an outcast among friends and neighbors because you are selfish. The idea of anyone spending $6000 on Christmas boggles my mind, as did the things the movie seems to suggest we should all be doing. Our economy would topple if we ever became seriously religious in our celebration of Christmas. Or is this just another example of how warped our view of Christ's teachings have become -- that He would look kindly on this kind of celebration of his birth while there is still poverty in both the world and our neighborhoods?
Well come on, it's obvious, isn't it? Those Christmas-haters were the original Massachusetts liberals. Now down in the good old south they always celebrated Christmas.
-- Stu
And if the negroes were real good and didn't cause trouble by asking to vote or attend school, they got some table scraps and a reprieve from whippings or fire hosings for the day.
Well come on, it's obvious, isn't it? Those Christmas-haters were the original Massachusetts liberals. Now down in the good old south they always celebrated Christmas.
-- Stu
And if the negroes were real good and didn't cause trouble by asking to vote or attend school, they got some table scraps and a reprieve from whippings or fire hosings for the day.
You forget to mention that Christmas was not a religious holiday in those times, but the secular remnant of a pagan one celebrated by feasting and carolling, drunkenness and pranks.
this is one time when I would be staunchly in favor of returning to 'traditional values', heh heh heh...
You forget to mention that Christmas was not a religious holiday in those times, but the secular remnant of a pagan one celebrated by feasting and carolling, drunkenness and pranks.
this is one time when I would be staunchly in favor of returning to 'traditional values', heh heh heh...
I like xmas trees! And boughs of holly! Mistletoe! Wassail bowls. Feasting! Yule logs! All that fine, fun stuff we lifted from the Celtic/Druidic traditions!
Good non-churchgoing Episcopalian that I am. 
I like xmas trees! And boughs of holly! Mistletoe! Wassail bowls. Feasting! Yule logs! All that fine, fun stuff we lifted from the Celtic/Druidic traditions!
Good non-churchgoing Episcopalian that I am.
Cervantes?
Easy on the eggnog, 'k? Leave some for the rest of us.
Cervantes?
Easy on the eggnog, 'k? Leave some for the rest of us.
You forget to mention that Christmas was not a religious holiday in those times, but the secular remnant of a pagan one celebrated by feasting and carolling, drunkenness and pranks.
this is one time when I would be staunchly in favor of returning to 'traditional values', heh heh heh...
renato
Sounds like a typical Christmas at my house. We're going to get drunk, cook up a roast, play loud music and engage in all manner of wanton, hedonistic buffoonery.
You forget to mention that Christmas was not a religious holiday in those times, but the secular remnant of a pagan one celebrated by feasting and carolling, drunkenness and pranks.
this is one time when I would be staunchly in favor of returning to 'traditional values', heh heh heh...
renato
Sounds like a typical Christmas at my house. We're going to get drunk, cook up a roast, play loud music and engage in all manner of wanton, hedonistic buffoonery.
We're going to get drunk, cook up a roast, play loud music and engage in all manner of wanton, hedonistic buffoonery.
What time should I come over?
We're going to get drunk, cook up a roast, play loud music and engage in all manner of wanton, hedonistic buffoonery.
What time should I come over?
God damn revisionist history. I think
Atrios must be a Trotskyite. I have pictures of Christ in the manger with a Christmas tree next to him. And by the way, the English they used back then was spelled the American way.
God damn revisionist history. I think
Atrios must be a Trotskyite. I have pictures of Christ in the manger with a Christmas tree next to him. And by the way, the English they used back then was spelled the American way.
Yeah, yeah. And the popularity of the celebration of Christmas in the US came about largely because of the renewed popularity within the northern states of Great Britain, as a result of its support during the Civil War. Simultaneously, Britain was being innundated by the first hideous waves of Victorian Germanic sentimentality, which made such crap as Christmas cards, geese getting fat for the table, and evergreens in the house the very height of fashion.
Meanwhile, out west, most of the folks in the Mexican Republic areas were implementing the standard Spanish rituals for Christmas, some few of which have remained in place, including, in most of New Mexico and parts of Arizona, the placing of farolitos or luminarias on the night before Christmas -only-.
I liked the Roundheads myself. Evergreens always make me sneeze.
Yeah, yeah. And the popularity of the celebration of Christmas in the US came about largely because of the renewed popularity within the northern states of Great Britain, as a result of its support during the Civil War. Simultaneously, Britain was being innundated by the first hideous waves of Victorian Germanic sentimentality, which made such crap as Christmas cards, geese getting fat for the table, and evergreens in the house the very height of fashion.
Meanwhile, out west, most of the folks in the Mexican Republic areas were implementing the standard Spanish rituals for Christmas, some few of which have remained in place, including, in most of New Mexico and parts of Arizona, the placing of farolitos or luminarias on the night before Christmas -only-.
I liked the Roundheads myself. Evergreens always make me sneeze.
yes, cervantes needs less cervezas...
Once again, this is all about control and a desire to push the US towards a Christian State.
The nice thing is, once Christmas is over, they can stop whining about it. Maybe they'll even do a series of New Year's Resolutions. I can guess a few of the items on Bill O'Reilly's list!
yes, cervantes needs less cervezas...
Once again, this is all about control and a desire to push the US towards a Christian State.
The nice thing is, once Christmas is over, they can stop whining about it. Maybe they'll even do a series of New Year's Resolutions. I can guess a few of the items on Bill O'Reilly's list!
isn't that about the time faggotry started? goldang gays tryin' ta steal christmas!
isn't that about the time faggotry started? goldang gays tryin' ta steal christmas!
Quinn Labelle - "All that fine, fun stuff we lifted from the Celtic/Druidic traditions! "
Let me recommend Hogmanay. All the fun, twice the drunkenness, half the sentiment. Drink til your belly's beat blue!
Quinn Labelle - "All that fine, fun stuff we lifted from the Celtic/Druidic traditions! "
Let me recommend Hogmanay. All the fun, twice the drunkenness, half the sentiment. Drink til your belly's beat blue!
Here's an absolutely fascinating, though long, piece on American converts to Islam White Muslims
Here's an absolutely fascinating, though long, piece on American converts to Islam White Muslims
The "Christmas tree" was Germanic import that arrived in England when Prince Albert married Queen Victoria. I won't go into what was originally hung on that tree in olden times, but the crows enjoyed the feast.
The whole "American Christmas tradition" was imported from Victorian England with the Charles Dickens novel "Scrooge".
The "Christmas tree" was Germanic import that arrived in England when Prince Albert married Queen Victoria. I won't go into what was originally hung on that tree in olden times, but the crows enjoyed the feast.
The whole "American Christmas tradition" was imported from Victorian England with the Charles Dickens novel "Scrooge".
"with the Charles Dickens novel A Christmas Carol
"with the Charles Dickens novel A Christmas Carol
isn't that about the time faggotry started? goldang gays tryin' ta steal christmas!
ron dumsfeld
Nah, you're thinking of that Dragnet episode where the baby Christ statue was stolen from the Church nativity. It turned out it was a little Mexican-American boy who prayed for a new red wagon and said if he got one, he'd give Jesus the first ride in it.
Of course, Friday and Gannon uncovered the caper and had a good-natured snicker with the parish priest.
Today, of course, the little boy would probably be shot with a taser, charged as an adult with grand larceny and sentenced to hard time in San Quentin until his 40th birthday.
isn't that about the time faggotry started? goldang gays tryin' ta steal christmas!
ron dumsfeld
Nah, you're thinking of that Dragnet episode where the baby Christ statue was stolen from the Church nativity. It turned out it was a little Mexican-American boy who prayed for a new red wagon and said if he got one, he'd give Jesus the first ride in it.
Of course, Friday and Gannon uncovered the caper and had a good-natured snicker with the parish priest.
Today, of course, the little boy would probably be shot with a taser, charged as an adult with grand larceny and sentenced to hard time in San Quentin until his 40th birthday.
Let me recommend Hogmanay. All the fun, twice the drunkenness, half the sentiment. Drink til your belly's beat blue!
GWPDA
Sounds like great fun! Dancing, too? Dancing with that cutie Arthur?
When and where? I'll be there!
Let me recommend Hogmanay. All the fun, twice the drunkenness, half the sentiment. Drink til your belly's beat blue!
GWPDA
Sounds like great fun! Dancing, too? Dancing with that cutie Arthur?
When and where? I'll be there!
And if the negroes were real good and didn't cause trouble by asking to vote or attend school, they got some table scraps and a reprieve from whippings or fire hosings for the day.
Or they got to be the ornaments...
And if the negroes were real good and didn't cause trouble by asking to vote or attend school, they got some table scraps and a reprieve from whippings or fire hosings for the day.
Or they got to be the ornaments...
"By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne"
Charles Stuart is one person from history that I've always said that I would love to meet.
From all accounts, Charles II was a fascinating guy!
Today's Repugs would hate him, I'm sure!
"By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne"
Charles Stuart is one person from history that I've always said that I would love to meet.
From all accounts, Charles II was a fascinating guy!
Today's Repugs would hate him, I'm sure!
Ah, Christmas cheesecake!
Ah, Christmas cheesecake!
Well, for our part, we'll be celebrating Festivus.
You know, the annual holiday (same day as Christmas) which is dedicated to displays of strength and the airing of grievances.
Well, for our part, we'll be celebrating Festivus.
You know, the annual holiday (same day as Christmas) which is dedicated to displays of strength and the airing of grievances.
Ah, Christmas Krampus!"
Ah, Christmas Krampus!"
"And yet today's wingnuts seem to admire the Puritans-- the people who, IIRC, came here because religious freedom in the Netherlands wasn't as much fun as religious self-government"
Not to deny the general truth of your remark, and at the risk of sounding arrogant, I will share what little I know of those early days:
The term "Puritan" is usually applied to the settlers of the Massachusetts Bay Colony (Boston-based) who - almost to a person - came to America (1630) directly from England, not via the Netherlands.
The "Pilgrims" of the Plymouth Colony (Plymouth-based) came to America much earlier (1620), some from the Netherlands and others from England.
While I agree that the Pilgrims probably looked forward to setting up their own theocracy in America, many were eager to leave the Netherlands because of the persecution they experienced there.
My Mayflower ancestor, James Chilton, was actually stoned by some people in Leyden, Holland, because of his religious beliefs.
"And yet today's wingnuts seem to admire the Puritans-- the people who, IIRC, came here because religious freedom in the Netherlands wasn't as much fun as religious self-government"
Not to deny the general truth of your remark, and at the risk of sounding arrogant, I will share what little I know of those early days:
The term "Puritan" is usually applied to the settlers of the Massachusetts Bay Colony (Boston-based) who - almost to a person - came to America (1630) directly from England, not via the Netherlands.
The "Pilgrims" of the Plymouth Colony (Plymouth-based) came to America much earlier (1620), some from the Netherlands and others from England.
While I agree that the Pilgrims probably looked forward to setting up their own theocracy in America, many were eager to leave the Netherlands because of the persecution they experienced there.
My Mayflower ancestor, James Chilton, was actually stoned by some people in Leyden, Holland, because of his religious beliefs.
i'm thinking of sending Bill O'Reilly some falafel for Christmas... maybe I could sign it as having come from Larry King...
i'm thinking of sending Bill O'Reilly some falafel for Christmas... maybe I could sign it as having come from Larry King...
My buddhist sect completely forbids me from taking ANY active part in celebrations from other religions. I am allowed to passively participate in holiday celebrations as long as the event focuses on something non-religious, like a dinner, but if it's primarily religious, I must excuse myself. It forbids idols from other religions, which I interpret as including xmas trees, holly, etc. so just keep that crap away from me, and if you put it up in the office, I will definitely bitch about it as inappropriate and offensive to nonchristians like me. I'll grudgingly accept your false idols as soon as you let me erect an altar with a statue of buddha with incense burning 24 hours a day.
My buddhist sect completely forbids me from taking ANY active part in celebrations from other religions. I am allowed to passively participate in holiday celebrations as long as the event focuses on something non-religious, like a dinner, but if it's primarily religious, I must excuse myself. It forbids idols from other religions, which I interpret as including xmas trees, holly, etc. so just keep that crap away from me, and if you put it up in the office, I will definitely bitch about it as inappropriate and offensive to nonchristians like me. I'll grudgingly accept your false idols as soon as you let me erect an altar with a statue of buddha with incense burning 24 hours a day.
Well, for our part, we'll be celebrating Festivus.
It's the holiday for the restofus.
Well, for our part, we'll be celebrating Festivus.
It's the holiday for the restofus.
"Dancing with that cutie Arthur?"
You'd have to ask him - he's very much of the school of dancing with the one who brung him.
Hogmanay is 31st December and, "first footing and Scottish dances, or ceilidhs, take place - this is what happened to Saturnalia. For centuries, fire ceremonies -- torch light processions, fireball swinging and lighting of New Year fires -- played an important part in the Hogmanay celebrations. And they still do."
Fireball swinging at Hacienda GWPDA! Followed by first footing - Traditionally, it has been held that your new year will be a prosperous one if, at the strike of midnight, a "tall, dark stranger" appears at your door with a lump of coal for the fire, or a cake or coin. In exchange, you offered him food, wine or a wee dram of whisky, or the traditional Het Pint, which is a combination of ale, nutmeg and whisky. It's been sugggested that the fear associated with blond strangers arose from the memory of blond-haired Viking’s raping and pillaging Scotland circa 4th to 12th centuries. A red-head at your door is infinitely worse. Whole households have been known to escape over the back fence at the approach of Danny Kaye.
"Dancing with that cutie Arthur?"
You'd have to ask him - he's very much of the school of dancing with the one who brung him.
Hogmanay is 31st December and, "first footing and Scottish dances, or ceilidhs, take place - this is what happened to Saturnalia. For centuries, fire ceremonies -- torch light processions, fireball swinging and lighting of New Year fires -- played an important part in the Hogmanay celebrations. And they still do."
Fireball swinging at Hacienda GWPDA! Followed by first footing - Traditionally, it has been held that your new year will be a prosperous one if, at the strike of midnight, a "tall, dark stranger" appears at your door with a lump of coal for the fire, or a cake or coin. In exchange, you offered him food, wine or a wee dram of whisky, or the traditional Het Pint, which is a combination of ale, nutmeg and whisky. It's been sugggested that the fear associated with blond strangers arose from the memory of blond-haired Viking’s raping and pillaging Scotland circa 4th to 12th centuries. A red-head at your door is infinitely worse. Whole households have been known to escape over the back fence at the approach of Danny Kaye.
Oh these kids today. That's by Walt Kelly, as sung by Pogo and his pals, not the product of my eggnog indulgence. Not that I haven't been . . .
Oh these kids today. That's by Walt Kelly, as sung by Pogo and his pals, not the product of my eggnog indulgence. Not that I haven't been . . .
[Nancy's] "point is that the holiday banned by the Puritans was not the same one celebrated today. At some point it became two things: on one hand an austere Christian religious celebration of Christ's birth and on the other hand a consumer-oriented holiday of gift-giving and other money-spending."
One of our local pundits was griping about Macy's and Rich's taking the Christmas out of their sales adverts. She didn't say anything about Walmart's materialism though. I suppose that she, as many right wing Christians are happy as long as they have the name of Christ, even if it is obscured by the materialism.
[Nancy's] "point is that the holiday banned by the Puritans was not the same one celebrated today. At some point it became two things: on one hand an austere Christian religious celebration of Christ's birth and on the other hand a consumer-oriented holiday of gift-giving and other money-spending."
One of our local pundits was griping about Macy's and Rich's taking the Christmas out of their sales adverts. She didn't say anything about Walmart's materialism though. I suppose that she, as many right wing Christians are happy as long as they have the name of Christ, even if it is obscured by the materialism.
Hey, upthread I noticed a meme that definitely needs to be propagated:
Have a Gay Christmas!
That's about the only thing I could imagine as turning xmas into something the fundies want to avoid, if the gay communities took ahold of it as their own special holiday. Move the Gay Pride parades to Dec 25. Instead of "It's a Wonderful Life," run a marathon on TV of "Tales of the City" etc. etc. It wouldn't take much effort to totally rework the modern xmas concept.
Hey, upthread I noticed a meme that definitely needs to be propagated:
Have a Gay Christmas!
That's about the only thing I could imagine as turning xmas into something the fundies want to avoid, if the gay communities took ahold of it as their own special holiday. Move the Gay Pride parades to Dec 25. Instead of "It's a Wonderful Life," run a marathon on TV of "Tales of the City" etc. etc. It wouldn't take much effort to totally rework the modern xmas concept.
To the tune of "That Old Time Religion"
Let us pray to Aphrodite, let us pray to Aphrodite,
She wore that see-through nightie, and that's good enough for me.
Let us pray with those old Druids, Running naked through the woods
They drank fermented fluids
And that's good enough for me.
Unfortunately I can't remember the other verses
To the tune of "That Old Time Religion"
Let us pray to Aphrodite, let us pray to Aphrodite,
She wore that see-through nightie, and that's good enough for me.
Let us pray with those old Druids, Running naked through the woods
They drank fermented fluids
And that's good enough for me.
Unfortunately I can't remember the other verses
Don we now our gay apparel!
Don we now our gay apparel!
i used to love Christmas (presents), not so much anymore, you know, since it has become such a politically divisive wedge. i say we celebrate Saturnalia
On Christmas, believers attended church, then celebrated raucously in a drunken, carnival-like atmosphere similar to today's Mardi Gras. Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the "lord of misrule" and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. The poor would go to the houses of the rich and demand their best food and drink. If owners failed to comply, their visitors would most likely terrorize them with mischief. Christmas became the time of year when the upper classes could repay their real or imagined "debt" to society by entertaining less fortunate citizens.
at this time i would like to announce my campaign for nomination to be crowned the "lord of misrule" does this make me a Christmas terrorist?
and surely the women will show us their tits for a toss of the beads, hmm...
i used to love Christmas (presents), not so much anymore, you know, since it has become such a politically divisive wedge. i say we celebrate Saturnalia
On Christmas, believers attended church, then celebrated raucously in a drunken, carnival-like atmosphere similar to today's Mardi Gras. Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the "lord of misrule" and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. The poor would go to the houses of the rich and demand their best food and drink. If owners failed to comply, their visitors would most likely terrorize them with mischief. Christmas became the time of year when the upper classes could repay their real or imagined "debt" to society by entertaining less fortunate citizens.
at this time i would like to announce my campaign for nomination to be crowned the "lord of misrule" does this make me a Christmas terrorist?
and surely the women will show us their tits for a toss of the beads, hmm...
cervantes - isn't that 3rd line supposed to be "Swaller dollar cauliflower Alleygaroo"?
cervantes - isn't that 3rd line supposed to be "Swaller dollar cauliflower Alleygaroo"?
Of course, Puritans disfavored holidays generally. That's why Shakespeare makes fun of them for wanting to take away "cakes and ale."
Either way it's a day off, we need more of them.
Of course, Puritans disfavored holidays generally. That's why Shakespeare makes fun of them for wanting to take away "cakes and ale."
Either way it's a day off, we need more of them.
"Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the "lord of misrule" and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. "
Pretty damned watered-down for me - go for the fire-swinging and whiskey!
"Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the "lord of misrule" and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. "
Pretty damned watered-down for me - go for the fire-swinging and whiskey!
Ooops, meant 4th line.
Ooops, meant 4th line.
In the original version it was indeed "Swaller dollar cauliflower," etc., but I took that from "Songs of the Pogo," (Simon & Schuster, 1956) which gives the alternate version.
But you're right, I like Swaller dollar cauliflower better, I'm pretty sure that's what appeared consistently in the Sunday strip before X=mas.
Do you know the complete lyrics to Good King Sauerkraut, by any chance?
In the original version it was indeed "Swaller dollar cauliflower," etc., but I took that from "Songs of the Pogo," (Simon & Schuster, 1956) which gives the alternate version.
But you're right, I like Swaller dollar cauliflower better, I'm pretty sure that's what appeared consistently in the Sunday strip before X=mas.
Do you know the complete lyrics to Good King Sauerkraut, by any chance?
there's a good novel about this period in English history (when the Puritans cancelled Christmas) called "A Crowning Mercy" by Susannna Kells. Kells is actually an older nom de plume for Bernard Cornwell.
there's a good novel about this period in English history (when the Puritans cancelled Christmas) called "A Crowning Mercy" by Susannna Kells. Kells is actually an older nom de plume for Bernard Cornwell.
I'd much rather massive celebrations for each of the 4 seasons.
I'd much rather massive celebrations for each of the 4 seasons.
You might prefer to celebrate in the old ways, in Lerwick, Shetland Isles...
"locals are dressing up in Viking garb, lighting their fire torches and preparing to drag a galley through the dark streets for a dramatic ceremonial burning.
....
The festival takes place each year on the last Tuesday of January. Up to 1000 costumed "guizers", bearing flaming torchs, drag a Viking galley through the dark streets of the Shetland capital. They are led by a horde of vikings wearing traditional garb, winged helmets, sheepskins and carrying axes and shields.
At a designated burning point in the town, the torches are thrown into the galley, following which the 40 plus squads visit the 11 local halls and perform raucous sketches to entertain their hosts.
Lerwick's is the biggest Up Helly Aa, but there are also viking fire festivals in Scalloway on 12th and 13th and Nesting and Girlsta - taking Hogmanay or "the daft days" well into the second month of the year."
Whoopee!
You might prefer to celebrate in the old ways, in Lerwick, Shetland Isles...
"locals are dressing up in Viking garb, lighting their fire torches and preparing to drag a galley through the dark streets for a dramatic ceremonial burning.
....
The festival takes place each year on the last Tuesday of January. Up to 1000 costumed "guizers", bearing flaming torchs, drag a Viking galley through the dark streets of the Shetland capital. They are led by a horde of vikings wearing traditional garb, winged helmets, sheepskins and carrying axes and shields.
At a designated burning point in the town, the torches are thrown into the galley, following which the 40 plus squads visit the 11 local halls and perform raucous sketches to entertain their hosts.
Lerwick's is the biggest Up Helly Aa, but there are also viking fire festivals in Scalloway on 12th and 13th and Nesting and Girlsta - taking Hogmanay or "the daft days" well into the second month of the year."
Whoopee!
Santa never mentions Jesus and Jesus never mentioned Santa.
The closest they ever got, as far as I can tell, was in C. S. Lewis's book The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, where Santa Claus appears briefly in the midst of crypto-Christian festivities celebrating the rebirth of a lion, I mean, of a Lion.
These people are such liars and criminals it's hard to know where to start in despising them.
Santa never mentions Jesus and Jesus never mentioned Santa.
The closest they ever got, as far as I can tell, was in C. S. Lewis's book The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, where Santa Claus appears briefly in the midst of crypto-Christian festivities celebrating the rebirth of a lion, I mean, of a Lion.
These people are such liars and criminals it's hard to know where to start in despising them.
Hey, this is a liberal column. We should remember Charles Dickens fondly. Not only did he bring a new, progressive spirit of Christmas to the United States, he was a noted social reformer.
A Christmas Carol is a perfect story for our times. Scrooge was obsessed with money and loathed the pleasures of life, just like modern Republicans who argue that money trumps all and loathe sex in all but its unpleasant forms. Interestingly, Jesus, except in the word "Christmas" doesn't appear in A Christmas Carol, but after supernatural visits from his late business partner and two pagan spirits, Scrooge is reborn, not as a Christian, but as a LIBERAL!
After all, Charles Dickens was a liberal, or as George Orwell put it, "a liberal, a type heated with equal hatred by all the smelly little orthodoxies that are now contending for our souls".
Hey, this is a liberal column. We should remember Charles Dickens fondly. Not only did he bring a new, progressive spirit of Christmas to the United States, he was a noted social reformer.
A Christmas Carol is a perfect story for our times. Scrooge was obsessed with money and loathed the pleasures of life, just like modern Republicans who argue that money trumps all and loathe sex in all but its unpleasant forms. Interestingly, Jesus, except in the word "Christmas" doesn't appear in A Christmas Carol, but after supernatural visits from his late business partner and two pagan spirits, Scrooge is reborn, not as a Christian, but as a LIBERAL!
After all, Charles Dickens was a liberal, or as George Orwell put it, "a liberal, a type heated with equal hatred by all the smelly little orthodoxies that are now contending for our souls".
I won't go into what was originally hung on that tree in olden times, but the crows enjoyed the feast.
yeah, i'd like to hear more about that, because my understanding is that they would decorate the trees with the inards of their enemies. fuckn' germans, oh, wait...
I won't go into what was originally hung on that tree in olden times, but the crows enjoyed the feast.
yeah, i'd like to hear more about that, because my understanding is that they would decorate the trees with the inards of their enemies. fuckn' germans, oh, wait...
The spiritual Grinches in our nation are accelerating their war against Christmas as never before. And they are tragically convincing growing numbers of our fellow citizens — primarily those in our nation’s public schools and public administration — that Christmas should be publicly shunned, replaced by nebulous substitutes designed to avoid offending those who are all-so-easily outraged.
Satire? Only if it were so!
Here's more:
Our Founders were men who explicitly embraced Judeo-Christian principles in the founding of this nation. Even those who were Deists openly recognized the need for the citizenry to fall to their collective knees and beseech God’s favor. They understood the need to recognize God in our Constitution, in our courts and in our schools.
Arrrggghhhh!
I was accidentally listenting to Faux yesterday, and they were repreating the tripe that there is no separation between Church and State...
Have these people no shame? Apparently not...
More (if you're in the mood for abuse) here.
The spiritual Grinches in our nation are accelerating their war against Christmas as never before. And they are tragically convincing growing numbers of our fellow citizens — primarily those in our nation’s public schools and public administration — that Christmas should be publicly shunned, replaced by nebulous substitutes designed to avoid offending those who are all-so-easily outraged.
Satire? Only if it were so!
Here's more:
Our Founders were men who explicitly embraced Judeo-Christian principles in the founding of this nation. Even those who were Deists openly recognized the need for the citizenry to fall to their collective knees and beseech God’s favor. They understood the need to recognize God in our Constitution, in our courts and in our schools.
Arrrggghhhh!
I was accidentally listenting to Faux yesterday, and they were repreating the tripe that there is no separation between Church and State...
Have these people no shame? Apparently not...
More (if you're in the mood for abuse) here.
"Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the "lord of misrule" and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. "
Pretty damned watered-down for me - go for the fire-swinging and whiskey!
I want both! I want it all! Let's dig up the old Roman Saturnalia customs! Well, the fun ones, anyway.
We do understand that all these celebrations were actually about the Winter Solstice, right? The return of the Sun? The days gradually growing longer? (Hey, I'll drink to that!)
"Each year, a beggar or student would be crowned the "lord of misrule" and eager celebrants played the part of his subjects. "
Pretty damned watered-down for me - go for the fire-swinging and whiskey!
I want both! I want it all! Let's dig up the old Roman Saturnalia customs! Well, the fun ones, anyway.
We do understand that all these celebrations were actually about the Winter Solstice, right? The return of the Sun? The days gradually growing longer? (Hey, I'll drink to that!)
CDS - as you can see the Buddha's birthday is a public holiday. Along with Christmas and Good Friday and Easter and Ching Ming and the Lunar New Year.
CDS - as you can see the Buddha's birthday is a public holiday. Along with Christmas and Good Friday and Easter and Ching Ming and the Lunar New Year.
My Mayflower ancestor, James Chilton, was actually stoned by some people in Leyden, Holland, because of his religious beliefs.
lib:
I got three Mayflower ancestors: John Alden, his wife Priscilla Mullins Alden and Richard Warren.
Somehow I think even THOSE folks would think today's wingnuts were assholes!
My Mayflower ancestor, James Chilton, was actually stoned by some people in Leyden, Holland, because of his religious beliefs.
lib:
I got three Mayflower ancestors: John Alden, his wife Priscilla Mullins Alden and Richard Warren.
Somehow I think even THOSE folks would think today's wingnuts were assholes!
A half dozen years ago or so, I recall hearing an author interviewed about his then-recent book about Xmas in America in the late 18th century. One big component of it was lower class types getting gifts of food and drink from higher class types in a sort of "trick or treat" way, to buy them off from vandalism and violence.
A half dozen years ago or so, I recall hearing an author interviewed about his then-recent book about Xmas in America in the late 18th century. One big component of it was lower class types getting gifts of food and drink from higher class types in a sort of "trick or treat" way, to buy them off from vandalism and violence.
Ralph,
hey, don't be too tough on C.S. Lewis. he did do that hit piece on Dick Cheney. you know, 'The Hideous Strength.'
Ralph,
hey, don't be too tough on C.S. Lewis. he did do that hit piece on Dick Cheney. you know, 'The Hideous Strength.'
That's "hated", not "heated"!
That's "hated", not "heated"!
Somewhat OT, but Liddy was shopping for a new strap-on this afternoon. She asked for an armored one. The clerk brought out the Rumsfeld 666, a kevlar model that even has lifelike cajones that glow in the dark. Home this evening, she got Bob on his stomach, slathered him in Miracle Whip, and climaxed like a testosterone-laden hyena humping a dead okapi.
-Film at eleven.
Somewhat OT, but Liddy was shopping for a new strap-on this afternoon. She asked for an armored one. The clerk brought out the Rumsfeld 666, a kevlar model that even has lifelike cajones that glow in the dark. Home this evening, she got Bob on his stomach, slathered him in Miracle Whip, and climaxed like a testosterone-laden hyena humping a dead okapi.
-Film at eleven.
Merry Christmas, Pale Male.
Holdings signs saying "Protect Family Values, Bring Back the Nest" and "Honk for the Hawks," the crowd chanted "Bring back the nest!" and elicited raucous honks from buses, taxis and cars.
Oh yeah, and Fuck you Richard Cohen, you sorry piece of shit.
Merry Christmas, Pale Male.
Holdings signs saying "Protect Family Values, Bring Back the Nest" and "Honk for the Hawks," the crowd chanted "Bring back the nest!" and elicited raucous honks from buses, taxis and cars.
Oh yeah, and Fuck you Richard Cohen, you sorry piece of shit.
"A Christmas Carol is a perfect story for our times."
The problem is Scrooge was out of touch with himself. The people that concern us are not, they know what they want and pitiful little attempts at humbleness and goodwill towards men are sings of weakness.
For Scrooge, there was hope. For these people none.
"A Christmas Carol is a perfect story for our times."
The problem is Scrooge was out of touch with himself. The people that concern us are not, they know what they want and pitiful little attempts at humbleness and goodwill towards men are sings of weakness.
For Scrooge, there was hope. For these people none.
Now down in the good old south they always celebrated Christmas.
not that I go to church with them, but it's my understanding that the Campbellite churches my wife's family attends have no religious observance of Christmas.
Now down in the good old south they always celebrated Christmas.
not that I go to church with them, but it's my understanding that the Campbellite churches my wife's family attends have no religious observance of Christmas.
Once again, this is all about control and a desire to push the US towards a Christian State.
I'd rather push all the "Christians" off a cliff someplace.
The Grand Canyon would be better yet!
Once again, this is all about control and a desire to push the US towards a Christian State.
I'd rather push all the "Christians" off a cliff someplace.
The Grand Canyon would be better yet!
sings of weakness.
sb Signs of weakness
sings of weakness.
sb Signs of weakness
the other verses
Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Polly welly cracker n' too-da-loo!
Donkey Bonny brays a carol,
Antelope Cantaloup, 'lope with you!
Hunky Dory's pop is lolly gaggin' on the wagon,
Willy, folly go through!
Chollie's collie barks at Barrow,
Harum scarum five alarum bung-a-loo!
Duck us all in bowls of barley,
Ninky dinky dink an' polly voo!
Chilly Filly's name is Chollie,
Chollie Filly's jolly chilly view halloo!
Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Double-bubble, toyland trouble! Woof, Woof, Woof!
Tizzy seas on melon collie!
Dibble-dabble, scribble-scrabble! Goof, Goof, Goof!
------------------------------------
Walt Kelly would be having so much fun with this bunch of thugs
the other verses
Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Polly welly cracker n' too-da-loo!
Donkey Bonny brays a carol,
Antelope Cantaloup, 'lope with you!
Hunky Dory's pop is lolly gaggin' on the wagon,
Willy, folly go through!
Chollie's collie barks at Barrow,
Harum scarum five alarum bung-a-loo!
Duck us all in bowls of barley,
Ninky dinky dink an' polly voo!
Chilly Filly's name is Chollie,
Chollie Filly's jolly chilly view halloo!
Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Double-bubble, toyland trouble! Woof, Woof, Woof!
Tizzy seas on melon collie!
Dibble-dabble, scribble-scrabble! Goof, Goof, Goof!
------------------------------------
Walt Kelly would be having so much fun with this bunch of thugs
Link to Deck us all with Boston Charlie at pogopossum.com
Link to Deck us all with Boston Charlie at pogopossum.com
The problem is Scrooge was out of touch with himself.
heh heh, touching self.
The problem is Scrooge was out of touch with himself.
heh heh, touching self.
Try this. Halo scan ate my homework
http:/www.pogopossum.com/deckus.htm
Try this. Halo scan ate my homework
http:/www.pogopossum.com/deckus.htm
i would like to announce my campaign for nomination to be crowned the "lord of misrule"
personally, I'm lobbying my congressman to introduce a bill to have the Lord of Misrule's number retired in January of 2009, and painted on the outfield fence at the Ballpark in Arlington.
i would like to announce my campaign for nomination to be crowned the "lord of misrule"
personally, I'm lobbying my congressman to introduce a bill to have the Lord of Misrule's number retired in January of 2009, and painted on the outfield fence at the Ballpark in Arlington.
Thanks Bohica. You know, Kelly already did have fun with them, through pre-cognition. The Pogo Extra is one of the earliest, maybe the first I don't know, comic novels. It's about an insect running for President, who can only say "Jes' Fine." PT Bridgeport is the Rovian figure who promotes his candidacy. I don't know exactly who he was talking about back in 1960, the publication date (Fremont the boy bug isn't much like Nixon), but he sure as hell is talking about our current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW.
The closing is, "Doubt, Debt and Doom Loom." I'm not making this up.
Thanks Bohica. You know, Kelly already did have fun with them, through pre-cognition. The Pogo Extra is one of the earliest, maybe the first I don't know, comic novels. It's about an insect running for President, who can only say "Jes' Fine." PT Bridgeport is the Rovian figure who promotes his candidacy. I don't know exactly who he was talking about back in 1960, the publication date (Fremont the boy bug isn't much like Nixon), but he sure as hell is talking about our current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW.
The closing is, "Doubt, Debt and Doom Loom." I'm not making this up.
COVERT ETHICAL CLEANSING AT CBS: Henry Copeland looks at a sleazy attack on bloggers -- including Atrios/Duncan Black -- by CBS. It doesn't appear that the "Tiffany network" has done anything to elevate its standards in the wake of RatherGate. Read this, too
from Instapundit
COVERT ETHICAL CLEANSING AT CBS: Henry Copeland looks at a sleazy attack on bloggers -- including Atrios/Duncan Black -- by CBS. It doesn't appear that the "Tiffany network" has done anything to elevate its standards in the wake of RatherGate. Read this, too
from Instapundit
Funny. I got stoned in Amsterdam, too.
Funny. I got stoned in Amsterdam, too.
Those who carry on about how the Constitution does not contain the words "separation of Church and State" seem only to see the short-term gain they hope to receive by blurring the distinction.
Suppression of gays (whom they despise on a homophobic level ingrained in their culture, and rationalize with the Old Testament); the overturning of Roe v. Wade; the teaching of Christianity and prohibition of sex education in the public schools; all of these things they think are to their advantage.
And once these objectives are achieved, will they start calling for the repeal of the First Amendment's "establishment of religion" clause? Then, which religion will win?
Do you suppose that Bush, in his talks with the Dude Upstairs, seeks His guidance in selecting cabinet appointments? The Constitution specifically bans a "religious test" being applied to public employees. Can George ignore God's approbation or rejection of an appointee?
Those who carry on about how the Constitution does not contain the words "separation of Church and State" seem only to see the short-term gain they hope to receive by blurring the distinction.
Suppression of gays (whom they despise on a homophobic level ingrained in their culture, and rationalize with the Old Testament); the overturning of Roe v. Wade; the teaching of Christianity and prohibition of sex education in the public schools; all of these things they think are to their advantage.
And once these objectives are achieved, will they start calling for the repeal of the First Amendment's "establishment of religion" clause? Then, which religion will win?
Do you suppose that Bush, in his talks with the Dude Upstairs, seeks His guidance in selecting cabinet appointments? The Constitution specifically bans a "religious test" being applied to public employees. Can George ignore God's approbation or rejection of an appointee?
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. After the workout with the new strap-on, Liddy and Bob had some Kraft cheese & noodles and watched a Matlock rerun.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. After the workout with the new strap-on, Liddy and Bob had some Kraft cheese & noodles and watched a Matlock rerun.
Sorry Tom, buddha's birthday isn't celebrated by any sect I know of, it's just a synthetic HK holiday. As a buddhist, I'm mighty pissed that we don't have any special holidays so I can never ask for extra days off work.
Sorry Tom, buddha's birthday isn't celebrated by any sect I know of, it's just a synthetic HK holiday. As a buddhist, I'm mighty pissed that we don't have any special holidays so I can never ask for extra days off work.
dirty fucking christmas-hating heat-miser terrorists!!!!
dirty fucking christmas-hating heat-miser terrorists!!!!
"Where do bad people go when they die
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly
They go to a lake of fire and fry
You don't see 'em again, till the fourth of July"
Meat Puppets via Nirvana
"Where do bad people go when they die
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly
They go to a lake of fire and fry
You don't see 'em again, till the fourth of July"
Meat Puppets via Nirvana
Another thing. Strap-on with Lidy and Bob don't produce santorum. So they sometimes bring in Frist.
Another thing. Strap-on with Lidy and Bob don't produce santorum. So they sometimes bring in Frist.
I hate Christmas. The bastard lovechild of Lazy-minded Religiosity and Crass Commercialism. It's the "Bill O-Reilley of Holidays".
If you don't like Christmas, I'm told, you are a Grinch. You must, quite literally,hide from your neighbors for weeks before and at least a week afterwards, lest you get forced to exchange meaningless purchases of chocolate and shortbread and all this other long-shelf-life crud.
And what is with all the salty, horrible ham and turnips and shit? What are we, on a mid-18th Century Trans-oceanic months-long sailing voyage? Shit, we have refrigerators and airplanes flying fresh food in from wherever in the world owes us money, and we are choosing to eat chestnuts. Squirrel food!
Making it even weirder, I live in Australia. Christmas in the middle of summer. Yep, nothing hits the spot like a big baked ham and potato dinner in the middle of a blistering summers day, followed up with glutinous christmas puddings and eggnog. Insanity cubed.
Fuck that, I'm going to the beach.
.
I hate Christmas. The bastard lovechild of Lazy-minded Religiosity and Crass Commercialism. It's the "Bill O-Reilley of Holidays".
If you don't like Christmas, I'm told, you are a Grinch. You must, quite literally,hide from your neighbors for weeks before and at least a week afterwards, lest you get forced to exchange meaningless purchases of chocolate and shortbread and all this other long-shelf-life crud.
And what is with all the salty, horrible ham and turnips and shit? What are we, on a mid-18th Century Trans-oceanic months-long sailing voyage? Shit, we have refrigerators and airplanes flying fresh food in from wherever in the world owes us money, and we are choosing to eat chestnuts. Squirrel food!
Making it even weirder, I live in Australia. Christmas in the middle of summer. Yep, nothing hits the spot like a big baked ham and potato dinner in the middle of a blistering summers day, followed up with glutinous christmas puddings and eggnog. Insanity cubed.
Fuck that, I'm going to the beach.
.
Don't diss Dickens. Dickens was cool, except for Hard Times.
Don't diss Dickens. Dickens was cool, except for Hard Times.
I told my niece the story of Saint Nicholas and the pickled boys. Been dying to for years and she's old enough now. She thought it was really funny. That's my first Christmas season good deed.
So far I've been able to avoid hearing Lou Monte singing "The Little Italian Christmas Donkey" or Elvis or Frankie.
So it's been all right so far.
I told my niece the story of Saint Nicholas and the pickled boys. Been dying to for years and she's old enough now. She thought it was really funny. That's my first Christmas season good deed.
So far I've been able to avoid hearing Lou Monte singing "The Little Italian Christmas Donkey" or Elvis or Frankie.
So it's been all right so far.
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm Ronald Reagan.
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm Ronald Reagan.
NYMary-
Given that, can you tell me something I have always been curious about. Did Reagan ever get it on with Liddy Dole?
NYMary-
Given that, can you tell me something I have always been curious about. Did Reagan ever get it on with Liddy Dole?
NYMary, who's Nancy?
I agree with Kaleberg. Dickens was one of the better writers of the period. Thackery was sympathetic with the Confederates I believe I remember reading.
NYMary, who's Nancy?
I agree with Kaleberg. Dickens was one of the better writers of the period. Thackery was sympathetic with the Confederates I believe I remember reading.
Dickens was cool. He never really forgot what being poor was like. I guess growing up in the poorhouse does that to a guy. I even forgive for A Christmas Carol. (bleh)
Christmas, on the other hand, can take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned. False cheer, horrible music, good music rendered horribly, the social pressure to buy boatloads of overpriced crap, and then smile when receiving same... (takes deep breath and waits for blood pressure to reset to normal)
Yes, Mr. O'reilly, I hate Christmas, whatcha gonna do about it?
Dickens was cool. He never really forgot what being poor was like. I guess growing up in the poorhouse does that to a guy. I even forgive for A Christmas Carol. (bleh)
Christmas, on the other hand, can take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned. False cheer, horrible music, good music rendered horribly, the social pressure to buy boatloads of overpriced crap, and then smile when receiving same... (takes deep breath and waits for blood pressure to reset to normal)
Yes, Mr. O'reilly, I hate Christmas, whatcha gonna do about it?
I need help. Does anyone here know if the American Heritage magazine is biased to the right at all?
I need help. Does anyone here know if the American Heritage magazine is biased to the right at all?
I only recall about 4 lines of "Good King Sauerkraut" and don't gaurantee even that much to be correct:
Good King Sauerkraut looked out
On his feets uneven
Whilst the snew lay roundabout
Nine, ten, and eeleeven!
Did y'all know that "The Night before Christmas" fits to the tune of "On Top of Old Smokey"? Which means so does watertiger's O'Reilly song down in the indecent Olympics thread.
I only recall about 4 lines of "Good King Sauerkraut" and don't gaurantee even that much to be correct:
Good King Sauerkraut looked out
On his feets uneven
Whilst the snew lay roundabout
Nine, ten, and eeleeven!
Did y'all know that "The Night before Christmas" fits to the tune of "On Top of Old Smokey"? Which means so does watertiger's O'Reilly song down in the indecent Olympics thread.
I hate Christmas, whatcha gonna do about it?
I've got a record of Japanese biwa music that is a good antidote to too much Christmas. Tran Quang Hai, Landscape of the Highlands too. Both work.
I hate Christmas, whatcha gonna do about it?
I've got a record of Japanese biwa music that is a good antidote to too much Christmas. Tran Quang Hai, Landscape of the Highlands too. Both work.
bebe,
Fuckin' A! But, ya know, before she was a skank.
EPT,
Thersites is Nancy. He stares at me adoringly as I blog. (A blatant lie. College football is on.)
I have a friend who argues that Dickens is the heir of Shelley, intellectually. And he never did get over poverty in childhood.
bebe,
Fuckin' A! But, ya know, before she was a skank.
EPT,
Thersites is Nancy. He stares at me adoringly as I blog. (A blatant lie. College football is on.)
I have a friend who argues that Dickens is the heir of Shelley, intellectually. And he never did get over poverty in childhood.
And once these objectives are achieved, will they start calling for the repeal of the First Amendment's "establishment of religion" clause? Then, which religion will win?
The monotheistic religions aren't different enough in the basics that there needs to be a winner. By and large, Christians will be willing to tolerate other religions being practiced wherever they aren't in the majority, just as long as they're permitted to continue to exercise their First Amendment rights to proclaim that practicioners of other religions are going to hell, and to continue to proselytize among them.
And once these objectives are achieved, will they start calling for the repeal of the First Amendment's "establishment of religion" clause? Then, which religion will win?
The monotheistic religions aren't different enough in the basics that there needs to be a winner. By and large, Christians will be willing to tolerate other religions being practiced wherever they aren't in the majority, just as long as they're permitted to continue to exercise their First Amendment rights to proclaim that practicioners of other religions are going to hell, and to continue to proselytize among them.
I hope you all have your x-mas trees up and burning the electricity with those pretty bulbs. I hope you're helping our economy by going to the mall by SUV, then filling that SUV with beautiful NEW presents!
ha - I'm not
I hope you all have your x-mas trees up and burning the electricity with those pretty bulbs. I hope you're helping our economy by going to the mall by SUV, then filling that SUV with beautiful NEW presents!
ha - I'm not
The monotheistic religions aren't different enough in the basics that there needs to be a winner.
This is why I think it might not be a bad idea to establish a state church. Where they've done it in northern Europe, the church has pretty much faded into irrelevance.
The monotheistic religions aren't different enough in the basics that there needs to be a winner.
This is why I think it might not be a bad idea to establish a state church. Where they've done it in northern Europe, the church has pretty much faded into irrelevance.
Thersites is Nancy. Fastinating.
Shelly, humh. I'd have guessed Crabbe. Matthew Arnold is a poet who has risen in my regard. I think he's due for a revival.
Thersites is Nancy. Fastinating.
Shelly, humh. I'd have guessed Crabbe. Matthew Arnold is a poet who has risen in my regard. I think he's due for a revival.
This is why I think it might not be a bad idea to establish a state church.
This smells of a Muggletonian scheme to gain world domination. Beware.
This is why I think it might not be a bad idea to establish a state church.
This smells of a Muggletonian scheme to gain world domination. Beware.
I beg your pardon, I am Homer's good friend, Gerald Ford. "Do you like nachos Homer? I like nachos."
For Christmas this year, we are giving everyine whiskey, even the kids. "Daddy, I wanted a SpongeBob game!" "Shut up! Drink your booze, liberal whiner."
I beg your pardon, I am Homer's good friend, Gerald Ford. "Do you like nachos Homer? I like nachos."
For Christmas this year, we are giving everyine whiskey, even the kids. "Daddy, I wanted a SpongeBob game!" "Shut up! Drink your booze, liberal whiner."
I need help. Does anyone here know if the American Heritage magazine is biased to the right at all?
American Heritage has been a fairly standard feature of public school libraries since the '70s.
I never thought of it as being any more biased than, say, National Geographic.
Do they still publish it in hardcover?
I need help. Does anyone here know if the American Heritage magazine is biased to the right at all?
American Heritage has been a fairly standard feature of public school libraries since the '70s.
I never thought of it as being any more biased than, say, National Geographic.
Do they still publish it in hardcover?
I just hate all the crap that xmas involves. It's like the hamster wheel of mindless consumption we're on as a way of daily life isn't enough. I feel like I'm on this extra xmas hamster wheel against my will and I hate it more with every passing year. Dutifully go to the wife's family's house and take part in this celebration of everybody giving and getting more CRAP when our houses are all stuffed with more CRAP than we know what to do with, it has nothing to do with what I feel for these people or celebrating the season in simple old ways that resonate with me, plus I can't help it, the lives being shattered forever in Iraq with each passing minute and we all politely don't think about it and just go on creating more CRAP for what reason? I fucking hate and despise and dread xmas anymore, and any cool things I end up remembering about xmases are totally in spite of this mindless consumption extra work stress worse-every-year ritual that has become American xmas.
I just hate all the crap that xmas involves. It's like the hamster wheel of mindless consumption we're on as a way of daily life isn't enough. I feel like I'm on this extra xmas hamster wheel against my will and I hate it more with every passing year. Dutifully go to the wife's family's house and take part in this celebration of everybody giving and getting more CRAP when our houses are all stuffed with more CRAP than we know what to do with, it has nothing to do with what I feel for these people or celebrating the season in simple old ways that resonate with me, plus I can't help it, the lives being shattered forever in Iraq with each passing minute and we all politely don't think about it and just go on creating more CRAP for what reason? I fucking hate and despise and dread xmas anymore, and any cool things I end up remembering about xmases are totally in spite of this mindless consumption extra work stress worse-every-year ritual that has become American xmas.
theo,
Oh man. THAT magazine! The name meant nothing to me until you noted it was in hardcover, at which point I remembered that we received it all through my childhood. Conservative? Not exactly. Common-sensical jingoism is more accurate.
theo,
Oh man. THAT magazine! The name meant nothing to me until you noted it was in hardcover, at which point I remembered that we received it all through my childhood. Conservative? Not exactly. Common-sensical jingoism is more accurate.
Matthew Arnold is a poet who has risen in my regard.
*resisting impulse to post a recital of Dover Beach*
Matthew Arnold is a poet who has risen in my regard.
*resisting impulse to post a recital of Dover Beach*
From what I can gather, the date for Christmas was set as December 25 in the fourth century at the council of Nicea, quite consciously taken over from the cult of Mithra "the unconquered sun," whose birthday in Rome was celebrated with thousands of candles on that day.
Saint Francis is supposed to have invented the custom of the Creche and theatrical Christmas pageant, as ways of educating illiterate peasants about their religion. Narrative paintings (art as rhetoric, as opposed to icons which were windows into the spirit world) also came in about the time of Saint Francis.
The custom of giving gifts and celebrating at home with a Christmas tree came from the German Pietists of the eighteenth century. (The Germans had a thing about making wooden toys for children, perhaps to make up for the fact that they were so strict with them. Obedient little German children didn't actually play with the toys until given permission by adults). Santa Clause seems to be a melding of the Dutch Saint Nicholas (December 8?) with a pagan Scandinavian winter giant.
Notice that the March family in Little Women celebrated at home with homemade gifts and didn't go to church on Christmas (they were New England Unitarians) but their wealthy episcopalian neighbor Laurie did.
The custom of going from house to hous caroling and begging was universal in Europe on virtually all holidays. It was a way of supplementing people's subsistence diet with a little extra protein. Periodically the festivities would get out of hand and celebrations would be banned. No doubt home celebrations seemed preferable in the early nineteenth century to the traditional drunken carousing and alms seeking. Perhaps we have reached a stage where the home celebrations are getting to be too much, however.
From what I can gather, the date for Christmas was set as December 25 in the fourth century at the council of Nicea, quite consciously taken over from the cult of Mithra "the unconquered sun," whose birthday in Rome was celebrated with thousands of candles on that day.
Saint Francis is supposed to have invented the custom of the Creche and theatrical Christmas pageant, as ways of educating illiterate peasants about their religion. Narrative paintings (art as rhetoric, as opposed to icons which were windows into the spirit world) also came in about the time of Saint Francis.
The custom of giving gifts and celebrating at home with a Christmas tree came from the German Pietists of the eighteenth century. (The Germans had a thing about making wooden toys for children, perhaps to make up for the fact that they were so strict with them. Obedient little German children didn't actually play with the toys until given permission by adults). Santa Clause seems to be a melding of the Dutch Saint Nicholas (December 8?) with a pagan Scandinavian winter giant.
Notice that the March family in Little Women celebrated at home with homemade gifts and didn't go to church on Christmas (they were New England Unitarians) but their wealthy episcopalian neighbor Laurie did.
The custom of going from house to hous caroling and begging was universal in Europe on virtually all holidays. It was a way of supplementing people's subsistence diet with a little extra protein. Periodically the festivities would get out of hand and celebrations would be banned. No doubt home celebrations seemed preferable in the early nineteenth century to the traditional drunken carousing and alms seeking. Perhaps we have reached a stage where the home celebrations are getting to be too much, however.
You might prefer to celebrate in the old ways, in Lerwick, Shetland Isles...
GWPDA | Email | Homepage | 12.11.04 - 9:06 pm | #
Sweet! But it needs more semi-nude females and orgies.
You might prefer to celebrate in the old ways, in Lerwick, Shetland Isles...
GWPDA | Email | Homepage | 12.11.04 - 9:06 pm | #
Sweet! But it needs more semi-nude females and orgies.
CDS - Not just a HK thing
Holidays for the US Embassy in Thailand (notice the inclusion of Columbus Day, which surely would be seen as "synthetic" by the Thai)
CDS - Not just a HK thing
Holidays for the US Embassy in Thailand (notice the inclusion of Columbus Day, which surely would be seen as "synthetic" by the Thai)
This smells of a Muggletonian scheme to gain world domination.
but just think about how the fundies would bitch and moan about being taxed to pay the salary of a gay bishop.
This smells of a Muggletonian scheme to gain world domination.
but just think about how the fundies would bitch and moan about being taxed to pay the salary of a gay bishop.
Religion is for those who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for those who have been there. I've been there, so I don't need no fucking mullah telling me that I'm going to hell! I try to live a spiritual life: love thy neighbor and love thyself.
Religion is for those who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for those who have been there. I've been there, so I don't need no fucking mullah telling me that I'm going to hell! I try to live a spiritual life: love thy neighbor and love thyself.
Try any of Marc Antoine Chapentier's Christmas pieces. Especially his Messe de Minuit. It's a nice change from the English and German stuff that gets overplayed. Wm. Christie seems to have specialized in conducting Charpentier.
French Noels too.
Try any of Marc Antoine Chapentier's Christmas pieces. Especially his Messe de Minuit. It's a nice change from the English and German stuff that gets overplayed. Wm. Christie seems to have specialized in conducting Charpentier.
French Noels too.
It was Martin Luther who first championed Christmas as a truly major church holiday (in order to "engrain," if that's the word, his "theology of the cross" into the Christian calendar). The Church of England, which was largely developed by followers of Martin Luther (around 1550, through the work of Thomas Cranmer and such), then put its own weight behind the celebration of Christmas as a major holiday. The Calvinists of Scotland, who were strongly opposed to the Church of England, inevitably campaigned thereafter against the celebration of Christmas (as against many other Anglican things), and this eventually became a point of hot dispute between the two Protestant branches (leading, as it were, to the English Civil War).
It was Martin Luther who first championed Christmas as a truly major church holiday (in order to "engrain," if that's the word, his "theology of the cross" into the Christian calendar). The Church of England, which was largely developed by followers of Martin Luther (around 1550, through the work of Thomas Cranmer and such), then put its own weight behind the celebration of Christmas as a major holiday. The Calvinists of Scotland, who were strongly opposed to the Church of England, inevitably campaigned thereafter against the celebration of Christmas (as against many other Anglican things), and this eventually became a point of hot dispute between the two Protestant branches (leading, as it were, to the English Civil War).
Christmas has remained a point of (subdued) tension between the two branches ever since....As for the United States, its own Calvinist cultural tendencies were put to a later test, as it were--after the Civil War between North and South--by the concerted, High Church Anglophilia of our expanding financial system, which was being developed out London and New York through the offices of J. P. Morgan and Co. (and Morgan, of course, was a great champion, among other things, of Charles Dickens' Christmas literature). The morphing of Christmas into a consumerist rampage has nothing to do, so far as I've been able to find out, with Martin Luther's theological concept--except as a way of keeping it off the radar screen....
Christmas has remained a point of (subdued) tension between the two branches ever since....As for the United States, its own Calvinist cultural tendencies were put to a later test, as it were--after the Civil War between North and South--by the concerted, High Church Anglophilia of our expanding financial system, which was being developed out London and New York through the offices of J. P. Morgan and Co. (and Morgan, of course, was a great champion, among other things, of Charles Dickens' Christmas literature). The morphing of Christmas into a consumerist rampage has nothing to do, so far as I've been able to find out, with Martin Luther's theological concept--except as a way of keeping it off the radar screen....
theodoric, You know, I've been trying all week to interest Eschatonians in a nice conspiracy theory about the secret Muggletonian conspiracy but no one has bitten yet.
Just goes to prove the point, eh?
theodoric, You know, I've been trying all week to interest Eschatonians in a nice conspiracy theory about the secret Muggletonian conspiracy but no one has bitten yet.
Just goes to prove the point, eh?
"Religion is for those who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for those who have been there. I've been there, so I don't need no fucking mullah telling me that I'm going to hell! I try to live a spiritual life: love thy neighbor and love thyself."
Beautifully put, el loco.
I like the Sikh philosophy on "religious leaders": they don't want them because they tend to become power-mad and corrupt.
The Sikh believe in equality for all, too!
"Religion is for those who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for those who have been there. I've been there, so I don't need no fucking mullah telling me that I'm going to hell! I try to live a spiritual life: love thy neighbor and love thyself."
Beautifully put, el loco.
I like the Sikh philosophy on "religious leaders": they don't want them because they tend to become power-mad and corrupt.
The Sikh believe in equality for all, too!
I have no life.
You're my friends, right?
I have no life.
You're my friends, right?
heres an interesting blog by someone living in exile cause bush won.
http://qatari.blogspot.com/
heres an interesting blog by someone living in exile cause bush won.
http://qatari.blogspot.com/
Is that AM again? I've got to go to bed soon, if he starts in you'll know it's him and not me.
Is that AM again? I've got to go to bed soon, if he starts in you'll know it's him and not me.
is anyone a regular viewer of the history channel? it seems 75+% of their programming is either civil war or ww II related. i know they're a commercial channel and live by their ratings, but jeez...
is anyone a regular viewer of the history channel? it seems 75+% of their programming is either civil war or ww II related. i know they're a commercial channel and live by their ratings, but jeez...
Just one thing more. You might get a smile from reading:
Ayn Rand’s A Selfish Christmas (1951) at:
http://sullywatch.blogspot.com/
Just one thing more. You might get a smile from reading:
Ayn Rand’s A Selfish Christmas (1951) at:
http://sullywatch.blogspot.com/
Is it too early for Anal Sex?
Is it too early for Anal Sex?
Sorry Tom, buddha's birthday isn't celebrated by any sect I know of, it's just a synthetic HK holiday. As a buddhist, I'm mighty pissed that we don't have any special holidays so I can never ask for extra days off work.
charlie don't surf
I take off November 18th, which is a holiday in my buddhist sect. But you know I find the idea funny that a holiday is valid only if it gets you a day off from work.
Personally, my favorite holiday has been Arbor Day, which unknowingly aligned me with the most recent Nobel winner who's name I cannot spell (because it is too late and Eric Clapton is on PBS).
Sorry Tom, buddha's birthday isn't celebrated by any sect I know of, it's just a synthetic HK holiday. As a buddhist, I'm mighty pissed that we don't have any special holidays so I can never ask for extra days off work.
charlie don't surf
I take off November 18th, which is a holiday in my buddhist sect. But you know I find the idea funny that a holiday is valid only if it gets you a day off from work.
Personally, my favorite holiday has been Arbor Day, which unknowingly aligned me with the most recent Nobel winner who's name I cannot spell (because it is too late and Eric Clapton is on PBS).
Meat Puppets via Nirvana
charley
I love that song!
Aslo,
Just when we're sheltered under paper,
the rockets,
come at us sideways
Meat Puppets via Nirvana
charley
I love that song!
Aslo,
Just when we're sheltered under paper,
the rockets,
come at us sideways
billy graham on cnn people. interesting. apparantly this shit has gone down before. atom bomb, billy graham, national fervor, media influence, god talking with presidents.
only this time we may have reached the tipping point. so far i don't see anyone with billy grahams charisma on the front. but these days it doesn't take much, evidence, gw.
billy graham on cnn people. interesting. apparantly this shit has gone down before. atom bomb, billy graham, national fervor, media influence, god talking with presidents.
only this time we may have reached the tipping point. so far i don't see anyone with billy grahams charisma on the front. but these days it doesn't take much, evidence, gw.
A number of folks mentioned a desire to help out when I reported that my house had flooded and many of books were ruined. I've finally faced the destruction and posted a wish list of titles here.
A number of folks mentioned a desire to help out when I reported that my house had flooded and many of books were ruined. I've finally faced the destruction and posted a wish list of titles here.
"Christmas in the middle of summer. " In Hawaii, the custom is to throw a big barbeque and go swimming insted for Thanksgiving and Christmas. It's completely pointless (and needlessly expensive) to go for the New England version.
Boondocks is great on the Santa thing.
My favorite Christmas song is the Tom Lehrer one:
Christmas time is here, by golly, disapproval would be folly, etc.
Re: Buddha's Birthday-- Asian Buddhists do celebrate it. It's really a spring festival originally tied to the rice crop. That could be why Western Buddhists don't bother. It;s not that any of us pay the man divine honors, or anything: it's pagan/agricultural tradition. Besides, like the Romans of old, we need all the festivals we can get in order to have sufficient leisure time. Otherwise, our work ethic gets the better of us. Weekends and vacations are a recent invention.
"Christmas in the middle of summer. " In Hawaii, the custom is to throw a big barbeque and go swimming insted for Thanksgiving and Christmas. It's completely pointless (and needlessly expensive) to go for the New England version.
Boondocks is great on the Santa thing.
My favorite Christmas song is the Tom Lehrer one:
Christmas time is here, by golly, disapproval would be folly, etc.
Re: Buddha's Birthday-- Asian Buddhists do celebrate it. It's really a spring festival originally tied to the rice crop. That could be why Western Buddhists don't bother. It;s not that any of us pay the man divine honors, or anything: it's pagan/agricultural tradition. Besides, like the Romans of old, we need all the festivals we can get in order to have sufficient leisure time. Otherwise, our work ethic gets the better of us. Weekends and vacations are a recent invention.
Oh, my own home winter music is fine. Thanks for the suggestions, though.
I get so tired of being assaulted by syrupy, saccarine, tooth-achingly SWEET "music" every time I step out of the house. Singers that slide from note to note in an attempt at--something--make me want to take a gun to the nearest loudspeaker. A person just can't escape.
I spent too much time and money on a (mostly useless) musical education to enjoy that noise.
It will only get worse until Christmas Day. And some people seem to love it. Sigh
Oh, my own home winter music is fine. Thanks for the suggestions, though.
I get so tired of being assaulted by syrupy, saccarine, tooth-achingly SWEET "music" every time I step out of the house. Singers that slide from note to note in an attempt at--something--make me want to take a gun to the nearest loudspeaker. A person just can't escape.
I spent too much time and money on a (mostly useless) musical education to enjoy that noise.
It will only get worse until Christmas Day. And some people seem to love it. Sigh
So far I've been able to avoid hearing Lou Monte singing "The Little Italian Christmas Donkey" or Elvis or Frankie.
So it's been all right so far.
I live in an Italian-American neighborhood, and Dominic the Christmas Donkey is played almost constantly...
"Hee-Haw hee-haw!"
There are even Dominic lawn ornaments, wrapped in lights. These are sometimes in the Nativity Scene just like Santa is atop my neighbor's Kresh (or whatever you call it).
So far I've been able to avoid hearing Lou Monte singing "The Little Italian Christmas Donkey" or Elvis or Frankie.
So it's been all right so far.
I live in an Italian-American neighborhood, and Dominic the Christmas Donkey is played almost constantly...
"Hee-Haw hee-haw!"
There are even Dominic lawn ornaments, wrapped in lights. These are sometimes in the Nativity Scene just like Santa is atop my neighbor's Kresh (or whatever you call it).
OT,
In the spirit of the season:
Jew-HeyYa
OT,
In the spirit of the season:
Jew-HeyYa
I'm always partial to the soundtrack from A Charlie Brown Christmas myself. That or assorted jazz albums that sound wintery (Miles Davis' Kind of Blue and Birth of the Cool come to mind).
I'm always partial to the soundtrack from A Charlie Brown Christmas myself. That or assorted jazz albums that sound wintery (Miles Davis' Kind of Blue and Birth of the Cool come to mind).
Another Defector.
After three tumultuous years at the space agency's helm, NASA administrator Sean O'Keefe is poised to leave the Bush administration to become chancellor of Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge.
Well, at least he didn't say that he wanted to spend more time with his family.
Another Defector.
After three tumultuous years at the space agency's helm, NASA administrator Sean O'Keefe is poised to leave the Bush administration to become chancellor of Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge.
Well, at least he didn't say that he wanted to spend more time with his family.
My grandparents refused to do Christmas. They were upright, uptight Victorians from the classic WASP New England background. Very severe.
My grandparents refused to do Christmas. They were upright, uptight Victorians from the classic WASP New England background. Very severe.
Is it too early for Anal Sex?
dude, your on the internet, it's never too early for anal sex.
sigh, but see bebe for updates on the bob and liddy show.
the other day the episcopalion bishop was on, talking about how he had to "strap on" a bullet proof vest he said it 3 different times. i don't care, but liberals are never gonna win that argument.
Is it too early for Anal Sex?
dude, your on the internet, it's never too early for anal sex.
sigh, but see bebe for updates on the bob and liddy show.
the other day the episcopalion bishop was on, talking about how he had to "strap on" a bullet proof vest he said it 3 different times. i don't care, but liberals are never gonna win that argument.
Sean O'Keefe gone!
Hallalujah!
That murderous bastard should be put in a penitentiary, not sent to a cushy University post.
He was supposed to FIX the problems with the shuttle, not ignore them. But they didn't fit into his worldview of a human-less, small-craft NASA, so he just let people die.
Good riddance! Of course, now I think about it, and GWB will probably put someone like the President of the Flat Earth Society in charge.
Sean O'Keefe gone!
Hallalujah!
That murderous bastard should be put in a penitentiary, not sent to a cushy University post.
He was supposed to FIX the problems with the shuttle, not ignore them. But they didn't fit into his worldview of a human-less, small-craft NASA, so he just let people die.
Good riddance! Of course, now I think about it, and GWB will probably put someone like the President of the Flat Earth Society in charge.
Nah, you're thinking of that Dragnet episode where the baby Christ statue was stolen from the Church nativity. It turned out it was a little Mexican-American boy who prayed for a new red wagon and said if he got one, he'd give Jesus the first ride in it.
Of course, Friday and Gannon uncovered the caper and had a good-natured snicker with the parish priest.
Today, of course, the little boy would probably be shot with a taser, charged as an adult with grand larceny and sentenced to hard time in San Quentin until his 40th birthday. Stinky - 8:39 pm
Alternatively, it could turn out that the parish priest had been molesting the little tyke, and had actually given the kid the red wagon in return for the kid's promise to keep his mouth shut.
Nah, you're thinking of that Dragnet episode where the baby Christ statue was stolen from the Church nativity. It turned out it was a little Mexican-American boy who prayed for a new red wagon and said if he got one, he'd give Jesus the first ride in it.
Of course, Friday and Gannon uncovered the caper and had a good-natured snicker with the parish priest.
Today, of course, the little boy would probably be shot with a taser, charged as an adult with grand larceny and sentenced to hard time in San Quentin until his 40th birthday. Stinky - 8:39 pm
Alternatively, it could turn out that the parish priest had been molesting the little tyke, and had actually given the kid the red wagon in return for the kid's promise to keep his mouth shut.
bah humbug.
bah humbug.
in return for the kid's promise to keep his mouth shut.
But not just yet...
in return for the kid's promise to keep his mouth shut.
But not just yet...
I hate Christmas.
That said, this is my favorite Christmas song.
I hate Christmas.
That said, this is my favorite Christmas song.
Gee sisi, I'm a member of a Japanese buddhist sect and we don't celebrate buddha's birthday. We don't get any holidays, except maybe Obon if you had a death in the family that year. Even New Year's Day celebrations are over at sunrise, that's not much of a holiday.
joshowitz: some sects have Vesak on Nov 18th, but my sect says buddha's birthday is May 16th, so how can you have a holiday when nobody agrees on when it is? And besides, nobody can agree on when any particular day is on any modern year, if it has to correspond to calendars from thousands of years ago. And that goes for xmas too.
Gee sisi, I'm a member of a Japanese buddhist sect and we don't celebrate buddha's birthday. We don't get any holidays, except maybe Obon if you had a death in the family that year. Even New Year's Day celebrations are over at sunrise, that's not much of a holiday.
joshowitz: some sects have Vesak on Nov 18th, but my sect says buddha's birthday is May 16th, so how can you have a holiday when nobody agrees on when it is? And besides, nobody can agree on when any particular day is on any modern year, if it has to correspond to calendars from thousands of years ago. And that goes for xmas too.
Can someone explain to me all the references to the Doles?
I'm not as hip as all you kool kids.
Can someone explain to me all the references to the Doles?
I'm not as hip as all you kool kids.
Chritmas is about eating, drinking and screwing. I mean, damn, whose birthday isn't in September? Just a conspiracy.
Chritmas is about eating, drinking and screwing. I mean, damn, whose birthday isn't in September? Just a conspiracy.
Happy Saturnalia, Everyone!
Happy Saturnalia, Everyone!
Can someone explain to me all the references to the Doles?
I haven't been here that long, but I get the impression that there is no explanation. It just sort of... is.
Can someone explain to me all the references to the Doles?
I haven't been here that long, but I get the impression that there is no explanation. It just sort of... is.
Oliver's army is here to stay
Oliver's army are on their way
And I would rather be anywhere else
But here today
Oliver's army is here to stay
Oliver's army are on their way
And I would rather be anywhere else
But here today
I actaully brought a conservative around to the side of good on the whole xmas argument today. I have no problem with stores putting up signs that say "merry christmas", or "happy chaka khan" or anything else. To me it's all a question of how much real estate you want to devote to wishing everyone a good time on their chosen holiday. One sign that says "happy holidays" seems to cover it well.
The key to the argument is that "happy holidays" is not an anti Christmas statement, it merely acknowledges the existence of other holidays. Don't let them get away with playing the victim. Talk about the conservative culture of victimhood and don't let up. The conservative I was arguing with eventually conceded that as long as the intent was pro-other holidays and not anti-christmas, "happy holidays" was acceptable. Since no sane retailer is going to be anti the biggest shopping day of the year, it's easy to prove there wa a positive message in "happy holidays".
I actaully brought a conservative around to the side of good on the whole xmas argument today. I have no problem with stores putting up signs that say "merry christmas", or "happy chaka khan" or anything else. To me it's all a question of how much real estate you want to devote to wishing everyone a good time on their chosen holiday. One sign that says "happy holidays" seems to cover it well.
The key to the argument is that "happy holidays" is not an anti Christmas statement, it merely acknowledges the existence of other holidays. Don't let them get away with playing the victim. Talk about the conservative culture of victimhood and don't let up. The conservative I was arguing with eventually conceded that as long as the intent was pro-other holidays and not anti-christmas, "happy holidays" was acceptable. Since no sane retailer is going to be anti the biggest shopping day of the year, it's easy to prove there wa a positive message in "happy holidays".
Gozer , just read bebe rebozos' (sp) comments it will all become clear. of course if you miss him today he'll be back tommorow.
the comments are really mean, but they deserve it.
all right, well, merry christmas one and all...
atrios bettter have some christmas cat blogging. everyone knows cats love christmas.
Gozer , just read bebe rebozos' (sp) comments it will all become clear. of course if you miss him today he'll be back tommorow.
the comments are really mean, but they deserve it.
all right, well, merry christmas one and all...
atrios bettter have some christmas cat blogging. everyone knows cats love christmas.
Christmas Catblogging? Ok, I love Christmas.
Oh, and a Tip Top Tet to all!
Christmas Catblogging? Ok, I love Christmas.
Oh, and a Tip Top Tet to all!
Happy Holidays is where it's at. Argue with me over Happy Holidays? Ok, have unhappy holidays asshole purist.
Happy Holidays is where it's at. Argue with me over Happy Holidays? Ok, have unhappy holidays asshole purist.
I used to have a book on this...I think it was called "The Battle for Christmas." It detailed how Christmas "wassailers" would stagger around, demanding booze and food from households, sometimes with violent or fatal results. Basically it was Trick-or-Treat, but with alcohol instead of candy.
I don't remember all the little details, but the legal/religious conflicts over Christmas went on and on for decades...and obviously, they never really stopped.
I used to have a book on this...I think it was called "The Battle for Christmas." It detailed how Christmas "wassailers" would stagger around, demanding booze and food from households, sometimes with violent or fatal results. Basically it was Trick-or-Treat, but with alcohol instead of candy.
I don't remember all the little details, but the legal/religious conflicts over Christmas went on and on for decades...and obviously, they never really stopped.
It detailed how Christmas "wassailers" would stagger around, demanding booze and food from households, sometimes with violent or fatal results. Basically it was Trick-or-Treat, but with alcohol instead of candy.
Ah, the good old days.
It detailed how Christmas "wassailers" would stagger around, demanding booze and food from households, sometimes with violent or fatal results. Basically it was Trick-or-Treat, but with alcohol instead of candy.
Ah, the good old days.
charley ,those comments are funny! Bebe got freaked by Liddy's latest TV appearance as Tammy Faye Kathyrn Harris Lou Ferrigno Baker, and went left. We all should adopt a conservative to love anyway. You know, like this: the gap between Condi's teeth is the perfect place for Husband's needle. And shit like that. It could be fun.
charley ,those comments are funny! Bebe got freaked by Liddy's latest TV appearance as Tammy Faye Kathyrn Harris Lou Ferrigno Baker, and went left. We all should adopt a conservative to love anyway. You know, like this: the gap between Condi's teeth is the perfect place for Husband's needle. And shit like that. It could be fun.
Pie -
sure we are
Pie -
sure we are
Well, Christmas is one thing to me, and another to you. Who's to say which is right?
Well, Christmas is one thing to me, and another to you. Who's to say which is right?
Well, Christmas is one thing to me, and another to you. Who's to say which is right?
I'm right, and you are a heathen.
Well, Christmas is one thing to me, and another to you. Who's to say which is right?
I'm right, and you are a heathen.
For years and years, before I read A Christmas Carol, I hated it; I thought Dickens was taking the easy way out, making Scrooge reform because of fear of death. My mistake was that I relied on all the movie versions, which are way watered down. Then a couple of years ago I started reading the book aloud to my daughter (now 15 1/2) during the Christmas season, and I have to agree with the people here who think it's a good liberal book. There's sentimentality in the book, of course; it's Dickens we're talking about. But the scene where Scrooge sees the children under the robes of the Ghost of Christmas Present is chilling, and almost never depicted in any of the film versions. Dickens was a lot tougher minded than he's given credit for being, I think.
As for American Heritage, I think it took a turn rightward a couple of years ago, when it was acquired by Forbes. I really noticed it in the immediate aftermath of September 11, when suddenly the magazine was filled with jingoistic articles, comparing bin Laden to King Philip of Spain (I think) and explaining vehemently how we were destined to win this conflict. And it hasn't gotten much better since. Every year I agonize over whether to renew my subscription or not; I keep hoping it will get back to history. The issue that came out last month, with the interview with the Bushes (there was no comparable interview with the Clintons) just about made up my mind for me.
For years and years, before I read A Christmas Carol, I hated it; I thought Dickens was taking the easy way out, making Scrooge reform because of fear of death. My mistake was that I relied on all the movie versions, which are way watered down. Then a couple of years ago I started reading the book aloud to my daughter (now 15 1/2) during the Christmas season, and I have to agree with the people here who think it's a good liberal book. There's sentimentality in the book, of course; it's Dickens we're talking about. But the scene where Scrooge sees the children under the robes of the Ghost of Christmas Present is chilling, and almost never depicted in any of the film versions. Dickens was a lot tougher minded than he's given credit for being, I think.
As for American Heritage, I think it took a turn rightward a couple of years ago, when it was acquired by Forbes. I really noticed it in the immediate aftermath of September 11, when suddenly the magazine was filled with jingoistic articles, comparing bin Laden to King Philip of Spain (I think) and explaining vehemently how we were destined to win this conflict. And it hasn't gotten much better since. Every year I agonize over whether to renew my subscription or not; I keep hoping it will get back to history. The issue that came out last month, with the interview with the Bushes (there was no comparable interview with the Clintons) just about made up my mind for me.
Worship of Christmas and the Tree...Druidism?
Upthread someone mentioned Christmas and consumerism...damn right the economy would grind to a halt if, as the Angry White Christian Bigots demand, we keep the "Christ in Christmas". Wasn't there something about money-changers, temples and markets somewhere in their great book of Fractured Fairy Tales?
Worship of Christmas and the Tree...Druidism?
Upthread someone mentioned Christmas and consumerism...damn right the economy would grind to a halt if, as the Angry White Christian Bigots demand, we keep the "Christ in Christmas". Wasn't there something about money-changers, temples and markets somewhere in their great book of Fractured Fairy Tales?
One of the funny and amusing things about puritan Christians in America...
...you know what happened to that church?
It grew up.
The puritans are now ... the United Church of Christ.
--Kynn
One of the funny and amusing things about puritan Christians in America...
...you know what happened to that church?
It grew up.
The puritans are now ... the United Church of Christ.
--Kynn
My favorite Christmas poem is the one about Bad King John by A.A. Milne:
King John was not a good man
He had his little ways
And sometimes no one spoke to him
For days and days and days...
I like that he had a simple wish fulfilled by no one in particular (accident?) even though he was an imperfect creature. That's a philosophy of life I can deal with.
My favorite Christmas poem is the one about Bad King John by A.A. Milne:
King John was not a good man
He had his little ways
And sometimes no one spoke to him
For days and days and days...
I like that he had a simple wish fulfilled by no one in particular (accident?) even though he was an imperfect creature. That's a philosophy of life I can deal with.
the other day the episcopalion bishop was on, talking about how he had to "strap on" a bullet proof vest he said it 3 different times. i don't care, but liberals are never gonna win that argument.
I'm probably missing a good punch line here, but the liberals have already won that argument. In Anglicanism, once you're elected and concecrated bishop, basically nobody can stop you. If somebody doesn't like it, their only real option is to leave.
Sometimes people do leave, but they mostly wind up in small, pathetic, poorly-endowed splinter groups, where the quality of the worship experience is painfully inferior to that of the mainstream. Liberals usually win in Anglicanism, because the structure is antiauthoritarian by design.
the other day the episcopalion bishop was on, talking about how he had to "strap on" a bullet proof vest he said it 3 different times. i don't care, but liberals are never gonna win that argument.
I'm probably missing a good punch line here, but the liberals have already won that argument. In Anglicanism, once you're elected and concecrated bishop, basically nobody can stop you. If somebody doesn't like it, their only real option is to leave.
Sometimes people do leave, but they mostly wind up in small, pathetic, poorly-endowed splinter groups, where the quality of the worship experience is painfully inferior to that of the mainstream. Liberals usually win in Anglicanism, because the structure is antiauthoritarian by design.
Bishops have tenure?
Bishops have tenure?
go Roundheads. the Levellers and the Diggers, our forefathers, fought Cromwellian absolutism to the very end. the battles over revolutionary policy during the English Civil War, now that's a story you won't be seeing on the History Channel. but Wynne they did, evn in losing the battle to London merchants and their High Protestant cromwellianism. bastards. the Anglophone movements for social justice began there and then.
but it is cool to know that a mere four centuroies before I was born there, Boston outlawed Xmas.
go Roundheads. the Levellers and the Diggers, our forefathers, fought Cromwellian absolutism to the very end. the battles over revolutionary policy during the English Civil War, now that's a story you won't be seeing on the History Channel. but Wynne they did, evn in losing the battle to London merchants and their High Protestant cromwellianism. bastards. the Anglophone movements for social justice began there and then.
but it is cool to know that a mere four centuroies before I was born there, Boston outlawed Xmas.
Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
June seems an odd time for Christmas...
Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
June seems an odd time for Christmas...
there is a special Tenure Track line within the Anglican Church. you have to publish, do some service work, and make sure your teaching complies with departmental policy.
but the stakes are so small, so most candidates are urged to go into Investment Banking.
there is a special Tenure Track line within the Anglican Church. you have to publish, do some service work, and make sure your teaching complies with departmental policy.
but the stakes are so small, so most candidates are urged to go into Investment Banking.
In the nineteenth century Puritans became Unitarians.
In the nineteenth century Puritans became Unitarians.
and the Unitarians (via the Swedenborgians) begat the Transcendentalists, and Emerson begat Whitman, and there you go...
aaah, the heydays of German Romanticism and Calvinism taken to its logical extremes, mingling in the drawing rooms of Massachusetts liberals. it warms the cockles of my heart. without Jonathan Edwards no Alcott, no Thoreau, no abolitionist movement...
and the Unitarians (via the Swedenborgians) begat the Transcendentalists, and Emerson begat Whitman, and there you go...
aaah, the heydays of German Romanticism and Calvinism taken to its logical extremes, mingling in the drawing rooms of Massachusetts liberals. it warms the cockles of my heart. without Jonathan Edwards no Alcott, no Thoreau, no abolitionist movement...
Well, I just had to say:
You could take this christmas thread and laminate it and stick it to the frig with a magnet as a permanent reminder of just how rich, sweet, knowledgable, quirky, funny, marvelous and real you Eschatonians are, every day. Thanks for being who/what you are.
Well, I just had to say:
You could take this christmas thread and laminate it and stick it to the frig with a magnet as a permanent reminder of just how rich, sweet, knowledgable, quirky, funny, marvelous and real you Eschatonians are, every day. Thanks for being who/what you are.
I'm a member of an african marxist homeless lesbian collective, and I never get a holiday off in Amerikkka.
I'm a member of an african marxist homeless lesbian collective, and I never get a holiday off in Amerikkka.
The Fundies in my family -- the kind who go to Israel to convert the Jews (poor sods) so Jesus can come again -- are all agin Christmas. They say the error-laden Church of Rome created this festival, grafting it on over an old pagan one, and that nothing in the Bible justifies the date of December 25, etc. So they just don't do Christmas.
This is in Britain, but there's little or no difference between Evangelicals on either side of the Atlantic.
Perhaps O'Reilly should take note that many Christians don't believe that a Roman Catholic is entitled to count them in with him -- about Christmas or a good many other subjects.
Just a query: can you get falafels with festive frosting on?
The Fundies in my family -- the kind who go to Israel to convert the Jews (poor sods) so Jesus can come again -- are all agin Christmas. They say the error-laden Church of Rome created this festival, grafting it on over an old pagan one, and that nothing in the Bible justifies the date of December 25, etc. So they just don't do Christmas.
This is in Britain, but there's little or no difference between Evangelicals on either side of the Atlantic.
Perhaps O'Reilly should take note that many Christians don't believe that a Roman Catholic is entitled to count them in with him -- about Christmas or a good many other subjects.
Just a query: can you get falafels with festive frosting on?
A lazy neighbor put up a Christmas creche. He was too lazy to take it down so it sat there for several years, falling apart.
We called it the Christmas slum.
Finally, little baby Jesus was put out of his misery by a big thunderstorm that destroyed it completely.
A lazy neighbor put up a Christmas creche. He was too lazy to take it down so it sat there for several years, falling apart.
We called it the Christmas slum.
Finally, little baby Jesus was put out of his misery by a big thunderstorm that destroyed it completely.
Just to set the record, Christmas wasn't brought over from England, it was here from the start of the colonies in Pa brought over by German and Moravians. I live just south of Bethlehem, Pa founded in the early 1700's by the Moravians known as the Christmas City. They, and the German settlers in the area had Christmas trees, carols, and cookies back before the Revolution. One of the most famous Bethlehem Pa stories has to do with Christmas. During the French and Indian War the Indians planned a sneak attack on the settlement for dawn on Christmas Day. But a group of Moravian musicians, not knowing of the planned attack, went out to celebrate the Christmas sunrise with a trumpeting of carols. The Indians on hearing the music had a change of heart and the colony was saved. The Moravians in Bethlehem still greet the the dawn of Christmas with trumbonists playing at dawn from the steeple of their church in the center of town.
Just to set the record, Christmas wasn't brought over from England, it was here from the start of the colonies in Pa brought over by German and Moravians. I live just south of Bethlehem, Pa founded in the early 1700's by the Moravians known as the Christmas City. They, and the German settlers in the area had Christmas trees, carols, and cookies back before the Revolution. One of the most famous Bethlehem Pa stories has to do with Christmas. During the French and Indian War the Indians planned a sneak attack on the settlement for dawn on Christmas Day. But a group of Moravian musicians, not knowing of the planned attack, went out to celebrate the Christmas sunrise with a trumpeting of carols. The Indians on hearing the music had a change of heart and the colony was saved. The Moravians in Bethlehem still greet the the dawn of Christmas with trumbonists playing at dawn from the steeple of their church in the center of town.
The Puritans made war on all religious holidays and saints days, mainly because the gentry saw the traditional religious calendar as an obstacle to getting as much work as possible out of the peasantry. Until the 17th century, the average peasant probably had a considerably shorter work-week (averaging year-round) than the 21st century worker.
And until the Puritan revolution, Sundays were a day of real recreation: church ales, football on the village green, etc.
See E.P. Thompson on Puritanism and Methodism as a war to impose work discipline on the laboring classes.
The Puritans made war on all religious holidays and saints days, mainly because the gentry saw the traditional religious calendar as an obstacle to getting as much work as possible out of the peasantry. Until the 17th century, the average peasant probably had a considerably shorter work-week (averaging year-round) than the 21st century worker.
And until the Puritan revolution, Sundays were a day of real recreation: church ales, football on the village green, etc.
See E.P. Thompson on Puritanism and Methodism as a war to impose work discipline on the laboring classes.
Recommended reading: David Sedaris's 'Six To Eight Black Men', on how the Dutch celebrate Sinterklaas. (RealAudio, 20m in.)
Oh, and Spanish baroque Christmas music is great. Really irreverant, good to dance to.
Recommended reading: David Sedaris's 'Six To Eight Black Men', on how the Dutch celebrate Sinterklaas. (RealAudio, 20m in.)
Oh, and Spanish baroque Christmas music is great. Really irreverant, good to dance to.
A lazy neighbor put up a Christmas creche.
One thing to remember, to avoid confusion if you're in foreign company: if you say 'crèche' to a Brit, he/she will think you mean 'daycare', or any place where kids get looked after while the parents are doing stuff. (The baby-Jesus thing is a 'crib'.)
Sticking a Christmas crèche on your roof in Britain would probably get you arrested on behalf of social services.
A lazy neighbor put up a Christmas creche.
One thing to remember, to avoid confusion if you're in foreign company: if you say 'crèche' to a Brit, he/she will think you mean 'daycare', or any place where kids get looked after while the parents are doing stuff. (The baby-Jesus thing is a 'crib'.)
Sticking a Christmas crèche on your roof in Britain would probably get you arrested on behalf of social services.
the Levellers and the Diggers, our forefathers, fought Cromwellian absolutism to the very end. the battles over revolutionary policy during the English Civil War, now that's a story you won't be seeing on the History Channel.
You might see it on History International, if you get that on your package. The BBC and Channel 4 have made a few programmes in recent years on the Levellers and Diggers -- the first socialists. There's a resurgence of interest in popular movements during the Civil War (perhaps to get around the '1066 and All That' mentality) and they fit the bill perfectly.
the Levellers and the Diggers, our forefathers, fought Cromwellian absolutism to the very end. the battles over revolutionary policy during the English Civil War, now that's a story you won't be seeing on the History Channel.
You might see it on History International, if you get that on your package. The BBC and Channel 4 have made a few programmes in recent years on the Levellers and Diggers -- the first socialists. There's a resurgence of interest in popular movements during the Civil War (perhaps to get around the '1066 and All That' mentality) and they fit the bill perfectly.
I'm too late to add any value to the discussion, but I'd like to commend Atrios on reviving the Yes-inspired hed.
I'm too late to add any value to the discussion, but I'd like to commend Atrios on reviving the Yes-inspired hed.
my relatives date back to Jamestown.
Sure they do. My relatives date back to the Julian-Claudian house at Rome.
my relatives date back to Jamestown.
Sure they do. My relatives date back to the Julian-Claudian house at Rome.
What Kevin Carson says:The Puritans made war on all religious holidays and saints days, mainly because the gentry saw the traditional religious calendar as an obstacle to getting as much work as possible out of the peasantry. Until the 17th century, the average peasant probably had a considerably shorter work-week (averaging year-round) than the 21st century worker.
More on this religious/business relationship from a recent recent Guardian article by George Monbiot. In our current political climate the comparison of the conservative movement to late period Puritanism is revealing.
What Kevin Carson says:The Puritans made war on all religious holidays and saints days, mainly because the gentry saw the traditional religious calendar as an obstacle to getting as much work as possible out of the peasantry. Until the 17th century, the average peasant probably had a considerably shorter work-week (averaging year-round) than the 21st century worker.
More on this religious/business relationship from a recent recent Guardian article by George Monbiot. In our current political climate the comparison of the conservative movement to late period Puritanism is revealing.
Emerson begat Whitman
Beg to differ. It was Elias Hicks that begat Whitman. Emerson gave him some early encouragemnt AFTER the first edition of Leaves of Grass but he sort of chickend out when things got too transcendent.
Emerson begat Whitman
Beg to differ. It was Elias Hicks that begat Whitman. Emerson gave him some early encouragemnt AFTER the first edition of Leaves of Grass but he sort of chickend out when things got too transcendent.
Yes, I read "The Battle for Christmas"--the author was a bit jaundiced, I thought.
Basically, there are positive things about holidays and Christmas in particular. Obviously, people need a break from drudgery. They also need to supplement or vary their diets and renew their social networks.
St Francis (whose mother was from Southern France and whose cult resembled the Albigensians in its extreme ascetiscm and in the outfits they wore) was taken up by the Catholic establishment as a more orthodox alternative to that powerful cult. The Albigensians were accused of dualism, of condemning the material world as evil. As promoted by Saint Francis Christmas became a way to affirm the goodness of created matter (which, since it was created by God, had to be good) and an affirmation of all life, the natural world which, with the sun, begins again on Christmas day. There are reasons it remains enduringly popular. No one who is fond of folk-customs, music, food, and fellowship can afford to despise Chistmas. Even gift-giving can be seen as a way to make the mundane (having to buy shirts and pyjamas, say) more meaingful.
*By the way, Jewish asceticsm, as practiced by the Hasids, is also contemporaneous with the Albigensian movement.
Yes, I read "The Battle for Christmas"--the author was a bit jaundiced, I thought.
Basically, there are positive things about holidays and Christmas in particular. Obviously, people need a break from drudgery. They also need to supplement or vary their diets and renew their social networks.
St Francis (whose mother was from Southern France and whose cult resembled the Albigensians in its extreme ascetiscm and in the outfits they wore) was taken up by the Catholic establishment as a more orthodox alternative to that powerful cult. The Albigensians were accused of dualism, of condemning the material world as evil. As promoted by Saint Francis Christmas became a way to affirm the goodness of created matter (which, since it was created by God, had to be good) and an affirmation of all life, the natural world which, with the sun, begins again on Christmas day. There are reasons it remains enduringly popular. No one who is fond of folk-customs, music, food, and fellowship can afford to despise Chistmas. Even gift-giving can be seen as a way to make the mundane (having to buy shirts and pyjamas, say) more meaingful.
*By the way, Jewish asceticsm, as practiced by the Hasids, is also contemporaneous with the Albigensian movement.
My Bible says different. It says that in 1870, this was A Christian Nation.
You can find it in the Book of Nonsense, Chapter 2, Verses 4-15.
My Bible says different. It says that in 1870, this was A Christian Nation.
You can find it in the Book of Nonsense, Chapter 2, Verses 4-15.
I can't wait for the NeoPuritans to try to outlaw Christmas. That will go over like a led ballon with the Idol worshipping corporations.
I can't wait for the NeoPuritans to try to outlaw Christmas. That will go over like a led ballon with the Idol worshipping corporations.
Santa should being the Fundies some cookies from Holland.
Santa should being the Fundies some cookies from Holland.
You know, I've often thought that our society has managed to create three different holidays which are all called "Christmas". Following historic roots, these probably come from at least a dozen different celebrations, but in modern-day America, you've basically got three Christmas holidays:
* Saturnalia. This is the holiday of office parties and other occasions for the social consumption of alcohol. Presents, if any, are token. This holiday is celebrated sometime in mid-December and gets rehashed at New Year's Eve. This is a holiday mostly for adults.
* The Nativity of Our Lord and Savior. This is a Christian religious feast day celebrated primarily on the evening of December 24th, with some services held the next day. The Eastern Orthodox churches celebrate this feast day on January 6th.
* Stuff Day. (a.k.a. Santa Claus Day). This is a holiday celebrated on December 25th primarily with the giving of presents. This is the holiday of Santa and of toy stores.
Now, I view as positive developments which seem to distinguish the three holidays. I'd frankly be glad to get Christ out of "stuff day" entirely, because it'd get Santa out of the church on the 24th. (Saint Nicolas is properly commerorated in the Church on December 6th) I can't imagine what the "keep the Christ in Christmas" crowd is thinking. I certainly don't want Advent to be all mucked up with the Christmas shopping season; it's properly a penitential season.
Actually, I can't see what the rational motive is for retailers to want to push to separate the December spending orgasm from Christian religious celebrations. If that separation occurs, I can almost guarantee that the result is going to be a decrease in the intensity of celebrations of stuff day, with a corresponding decline in sales - the cycle of the year is something religion has been doing for much longer than captitalism, and frankly, the Church is better at it than the mall is.
So I guess that the three Christmases are never really going to separate -- the economic motive of retailers to tie stuff day to the coattails of religious celebrations is too strong. Saturnalia might manage a small separation, especially since it is mobile and not tied to the same calendar as the other two; however, I don't see much movement either way in the ties between the three Christmas holidays, either for more integration or more separation.
You know, I've often thought that our society has managed to create three different holidays which are all called "Christmas". Following historic roots, these probably come from at least a dozen different celebrations, but in modern-day America, you've basically got three Christmas holidays:
* Saturnalia. This is the holiday of office parties and other occasions for the social consumption of alcohol. Presents, if any, are token. This holiday is celebrated sometime in mid-December and gets rehashed at New Year's Eve. This is a holiday mostly for adults.
* The Nativity of Our Lord and Savior. This is a Christian religious feast day celebrated primarily on the evening of December 24th, with some services held the next day. The Eastern Orthodox churches celebrate this feast day on January 6th.
* Stuff Day. (a.k.a. Santa Claus Day). This is a holiday celebrated on December 25th primarily with the giving of presents. This is the holiday of Santa and of toy stores.
Now, I view as positive developments which seem to distinguish the three holidays. I'd frankly be glad to get Christ out of "stuff day" entirely, because it'd get Santa out of the church on the 24th. (Saint Nicolas is properly commerorated in the Church on December 6th) I can't imagine what the "keep the Christ in Christmas" crowd is thinking. I certainly don't want Advent to be all mucked up with the Christmas shopping season; it's properly a penitential season.
Actually, I can't see what the rational motive is for retailers to want to push to separate the December spending orgasm from Christian religious celebrations. If that separation occurs, I can almost guarantee that the result is going to be a decrease in the intensity of celebrations of stuff day, with a corresponding decline in sales - the cycle of the year is something religion has been doing for much longer than captitalism, and frankly, the Church is better at it than the mall is.
So I guess that the three Christmases are never really going to separate -- the economic motive of retailers to tie stuff day to the coattails of religious celebrations is too strong. Saturnalia might manage a small separation, especially since it is mobile and not tied to the same calendar as the other two; however, I don't see much movement either way in the ties between the three Christmas holidays, either for more integration or more separation.
I learned in the fourth grade that while NY was still new amsterdam (pre-1664) the Dutch children celebrated Christmas but the English children were not allowed to because in England Christmas was disrespectable. The Dutch children left their wooden shoes out for St Nikklaus fill with treats. Inevitably, the Dutch and English children played together and the English children or some of them wheedled their moms and dads into adopting the stnikklaus custom. This spread out from New York. And so thanks to the great American melting pot we have Santa Claus. I do not believe in Santa Claus but I believe in the truth of this history as I learned it from Miss Hermer in the fourth grade at PS 176 Queens.
Christmas as federal holiday does not bother me half as much as Columbus Day. who was worse than Columbus? Attila the Hun? Hitler? The Khmer Rouge? If I were an Italian, I would not want him of all people as my poster boy.
I learned in the fourth grade that while NY was still new amsterdam (pre-1664) the Dutch children celebrated Christmas but the English children were not allowed to because in England Christmas was disrespectable. The Dutch children left their wooden shoes out for St Nikklaus fill with treats. Inevitably, the Dutch and English children played together and the English children or some of them wheedled their moms and dads into adopting the stnikklaus custom. This spread out from New York. And so thanks to the great American melting pot we have Santa Claus. I do not believe in Santa Claus but I believe in the truth of this history as I learned it from Miss Hermer in the fourth grade at PS 176 Queens.
Christmas as federal holiday does not bother me half as much as Columbus Day. who was worse than Columbus? Attila the Hun? Hitler? The Khmer Rouge? If I were an Italian, I would not want him of all people as my poster boy.
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