HaloScan.com - Comments

I'MMA LET YOU FINISH

Coffee...must have coffee.

.
spork_incident | 12.17.04 - 8:12 am | #

Boy howdy to you all.

Still pissed by the SUV story.
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 8:12 am | #

Already on second cup, spork.

And how much do we love the fact that Bernie Kerik never filled out the background check to become Police Commissioner?
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 8:14 am | #

Media matters dares O'Lielly on dKos!
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:15 am | #

In defending Bush's awards of the Medal of Freedom to the Larry, Moe & Curly of our Iraq Policy, the wing nuts once again take the hot-candle wax of failure and dump it upon truth's clamped up, perky, little nipples.
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:15 am | #

Turk you make it sound almost good that this has been done. These descriptive terms are so Cheney-like of you...
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:18 am | #

A little early morning dissension anyone?
kissfan | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:20 am | #

coffee

good

anyone gotta light?
gonzo | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:20 am | #

attaturk

Why couldn't W just have given them charm bracelets?
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 8:21 am | #

I'm so sick of people who believe in conspiracies!
Gary Webb | 12.17.04 - 8:22 am | #

For the cat bloggers in the audience:

http://www.mint-clan.com/newforu...wtopic.php? t=56
M | 12.17.04 - 8:23 am | #

Webb your theory is full of holes now... is our children learning?
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:24 am | #

Krugman AND Herbert this morning. Best start to a friday in a while.
Sean | 12.17.04 - 8:24 am | #

Okay we need to get tougher as Dems. Sharkblogging on Friday instead?
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:25 am | #

watertiger sez:

Still pissed by the SUV story.

What SUV story?

.
spork_incident | 12.17.04 - 8:25 am | #

Okay we need to get tougher as Dems. Sharkblogging on Friday instead?
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:25 am | #

watertiger sez:

Still pissed by the SUV story.

What SUV story?

.
spork_incident | 12.17.04 - 8:25 am | #

Turk you make it sound almost good that this has been done. These descriptive terms are so Cheney-like of you...

Well, I did spend some quality alone time with myself recently and got all Cheneyed up.
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:25 am | #

Krugman, he's saying it.
el | 12.17.04 - 8:26 am | #

attaturk

Why couldn't W just have given them charm bracelets?

Good idea, bearing the letters, "WWBD" no doubt.
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:26 am | #

Kerik was just letting off steam in that apartment. Why doesn't the liberal media leave him alone?
The Admiral | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:26 am | #

spork,

posted by the A Man last night - Friend of Bernie's who ran over a homeless woman and didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Oh, and did I mention he was driving a monster SUV?
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 8:27 am | #

Webb your theory is full of holes...
Mr.Murder

Oh, I thought my skull was full of holes! I mean, it's not easy shooting yourself TWICE in the head!

It's hard work!
Gary W. | 12.17.04 - 8:28 am | #

Hmmm. Perhaps turk needs to emulate Condie who works with her husb- errr. (Quality) time is (according to Einstein) relevant.

So Cheneyed up would best term a Friday sans cats and sharks.
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:29 am | #

Good idea, bearing the letters, "WWBD" no doubt.

"Want Wood? Bush & Dick."
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 8:29 am | #

watertiger-

Got it. I read that when I woke up. But I'm a bit slower than usual this morning.

Going for cup number three now.

.
spork_incident | 12.17.04 - 8:30 am | #

Where's the catblogging? I'm up at dawn and there's nothing to read on the blogs.
Echidne of the snakes | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:31 am | #

I'm going back to bed. Maybe things will brighten up later? In another four years?
Echidne of the snakes | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:32 am | #

Where's the catblogging? I'm up at dawn and there's nothing to read on the blogs.

A-hem.

Okay, well, maybe you meant of "quality".
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:33 am | #

W.ebb death was alarming

This CSpan lobbyist guest (fromer Congressman) uses the term "stand on streetcorner" to refer a woman's ability to lobby.

Sexist fuck. Underhanded referall to whoredom for a woman's impact.

Lobby duty is hard W.ork!
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:33 am | #

Echidne-

TBogg has his Bassett Blogging up if that helps.

.
spork_incident | 12.17.04 - 8:33 am | #

Our family is disgraced and in the market for a large sturdy meathook for if you conduct yourself properly you should fear no one.
We appreciate internet writer's who have given ordinary Americans a flavor of this cur. A turban on a scorpion still leave one with a scorpion.
hala's uncles | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:34 am | #

[i]posted by the A Man last night - Friend of Bernie's who ran over a homeless woman and didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Oh, and did I mention he was driving a monster SUV?[/i]

And later Bernie cashed in the
chit and got a Room with a View
(of ground zero).
Frebnedzo | 12.17.04 - 8:34 am | #

This CSpan lobbyist guest (fromer Congressman) uses the term "stand on streetcorner" to refer a woman's ability to lobby.

Newt, is that you?
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 8:35 am | #

And I have miscellaneous lifeform blogging if you give a shite Echidne.
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:35 am | #

He mentions re-education camps as the next step if you ban lobbyists? And his first time in congress was the result of a SPECIAL ELECTION.

And they get paid well. He just mentioned helping asbestosis lawsuits! What a jackass. Close the door, make them wait 8 years before a return to lobby or Congress vice/versa!

Dr.Livingston I presume?
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:37 am | #

The Bushboy administration represents that they can "save" Social Security, balance the budget and win the war in Iraq!

Anyone who can believe that is in serious need of "reality therapy."

Bushboy is a proven sycophant, charlatan and incompetent. He couldn't fix a flat tire, much less a broken budget with more tax cuts or SS by borrowing to invest in Wall St. or Iraq by sending in more troops.

The irrefutable evidence is that Bushboy is depraved, deluded and dimwitted.
Rudy | 12.17.04 - 8:37 am | #

Did anyone see Democracynow last night with Amy Goodman?

She reported that some 12 year old kid who had spoken against the Iraq war in school had his house visited by some "government types" who questioned the kid's parents for 3 hours about their "anti-American" opinions.

Have the "Thought Police" arrived?
Rudy | 12.17.04 - 8:40 am | #

Let the catblogging begin!
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:43 am | #

20% of the scientists working at the FDA have expressed the opinion that they will be punished if they block or try to stop a drug offered by a big Pharma company.

Journalists routinely are knuckled to present the fascist among us as "good guys."

Soldiers in Iraq are dying for lack of armor, while Bushboy issues more and more tax cuts to the rich.

Has the world gone crazy or is it just the USA?
Rudy | 12.17.04 - 8:47 am | #

Corruption breeds corruption.
underwhelm | 12.17.04 - 8:48 am | #

asbestos even.... 'asbestosis' sounds like what the litigants have sued over...faux pas that has relevance...
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:49 am | #

Hey! Click homepage for Friday Big-Boyblogging!
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:51 am | #

got blackballed outta the entry position in '91 trying to report on Bechtel and Cheney/Rummy/Marvin Bush in '91. Also wanted a pieces on Bush Sr's back-door guard draft and his son's own technical desertion during 'Nam, a teacher at the school knew of him from his days in Army and as an oil wildcatter in the gulf of Mexico.

He said he'd go on camera and the Communications Dean at Arkansas State blocked the story after I got approval from Television Productions instructor and former Memphis WREG employ Jennifer Rodgers.
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 8:54 am | #

Has the world gone crazy or is it just the USA?...

Yankee soldier
He wanna shoot some skag
He met it in Cambodia
But now he can't afford a bag

Yankee dollar talk
To the dictators of the world
In fact it's giving orders
An' they can't afford to miss a word

I'm so bored with the U...S...A...
But what can I do?

Yankee detectives
Are always on the TV
'Cos killers in America
Work seven days a week

Never mind the stars and stripes
Let's print the Watergate Tapes
I'll salute the New Wave
And I hope nobody escapes

I'm so bored with the U...S...A...
But what can I do?

Move up Starsky
For the C.I.A.
Suck on Kojak
For the USA
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:56 am | #

I work on Wall Street (as a lawyer)and I can tell you that the financial economy is starting to roll- lots of mergers and acquisitions, and initial public offerings. Any comments? (Bush tax cuts working?)
Stats | 12.17.04 - 9:01 am | #

we're gettin all holiday sappy on MORNING SEDITION.

i love the marks!
n69n | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:02 am | #

NYMary,

Hello stranger. Little bigboy Thersites is a beautiful boy.
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 9:03 am | #

You better take care, you better not fuck,
You better not swear, or yer shit outa luck.
Fundie laws are comin' to town.

They're makin' a list, checkin' it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
Fundie laws are comin' to town.

They see you when you're screwin',
They know if you eat snatch.
They know just what you're doin',
Don't even whip up a batch.

Oh, you better take care, you better not fuck,
You better not swear, or yer shit outa luck.
Fundie laws are comin' to town.
Lime Rickey | 12.17.04 - 9:03 am | #

i have ben trying decaf his week instead of regular.

it sure helps with nerves & anxiety...but i notice i dont have any ambition anymore!!!!!!
n69n | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:06 am | #

NYMary,

Hello stranger. Little bigboy Thersites is a beautiful boy.
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 9:06 am | #

Lime Rickey,
Wow.

Thanks, bigvic!
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:07 am | #

Friday morning Bushism:

"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do when you are president. You gotta preserve."

--Fairgorunds Elementary, NH, January 2000.

Morning all!
Lima | 12.17.04 - 9:08 am | #

Bremer, Tenet and Franks

With apologies to Franklin Adams

These are the saddest of possible words
Bremer and Tenet and Franks
Winners of medals although it's not fair
Bremer and Tenet and Franks
Ruthlessly pricking our ganfalon bubble
They drive us to drink, make mine a double
Words that are weighty with nothing but trouble
Bremer and Tenet and Franks
tbone | 12.17.04 - 9:08 am | #

There's a great article on ripping flesh from children over at http://counterpunch.org/

'I'm not being cynical. There are some things that most people genuinely, sincerely abhor, important things like genocide and torture. There has been real progress on these fronts. That's just why we should notice that, on the matter of ripping the flesh off children, we have regressed. We weren't always so vicious; at least we tried not to be. Perhaps we will try again--but not until we realize how low we have sunk.'
Mike | 12.17.04 - 9:09 am | #

Oh Rickey you're so fine, you blow our minds.

...will it be legal to blow our minds in the future?
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:09 am | #

France: Where fucking is sacred!
nur al cubicle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:10 am | #

attaturk,
will it be legal to blow our minds in the future?

Not in Alabama or Mississippi. Why do you think Backslider moved to Georgia?
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:10 am | #

Stats: Get back to me when American manufacturing picks up and people start buying new equipment and other tangible things instead of existing capital goods and goodwill.
underwhelm | 12.17.04 - 9:11 am | #

financial economy is starting to roll-
Stats

ugh
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:11 am | #

CSpan has good Al Jazeera topic for Wahsington Journal...
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:13 am | #

Blogwhore alert:

Friday ferrets are up!

Up, up and away!

A.
Athenae | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:13 am | #

Ebay is booming! Record foreclosures! Economy is rollin' !!!!!
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:14 am | #

Via an email from the Crazy Women for America titled "Stop the Radical Homosexual Pickpockets!"... you can't make this shit up:

Today's CONSERVATIVE ALERT is a special message from Alan Keyes and Larry Klayman for hugh g. rection (that's me!):

Dear Friend:

The new initiative -- Citizen Action Now! -- of Declaration Alliance which you'll read about in the attached e-mail from Larry Klayman, Founder and former chairman of Judicial Watch -- launches a project that should have a profound impact not just on your family but the nation as a whole...

I implore you to read the attached e-mail prayerfully before you save it and perhaps forget to read it at a later time. It is extremely important to the future of us all!

The time is right for us to do something to stop the abuse of corporate America on your family, on you as a consumer, and their stockholders.

Larry lays out a clear and decisive way in which you can help put an end to the tragic method by which we are all being high jacked and our consciences violated...

Keep Faith,

Alan Keyes

=============================================

Secretly... Stealthily... radical homosexual activists have been picking the pockets of American companies -- and their customers, like you. In the process they're undermining America's families and the sanctity of marriage. And I know THEY don't care about you and your family, and traditional family values, but you do -- and I do! That's why I had to write you this letter.

Dear Trusted Friend,

YOU PROBABLY KNOW that the recent Supreme Court decision Lawrence v. Texas basically gives homosexuals the right to do whatever they want, including "marriage" in Massachusetts -- and soon, in your state too!

BUT WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW is that the financial benefits of marriage have already been handed to them -- over and over again -- by American companies YOU do business with!

What I'm talking about is that homosexuals who work for American
companies, in increasing numbers, are demanding and getting the same benefits for their "partners" as a legally-married husband and wife.

In fact, a homosexual "partner" can move in on Sunday and begin getting benefits on Monday! And these FREE benefits include free healthcare, bereavement and family leave benefits, free life insurance, the use of fitness facilities, AND sick leave.

And to be "fair," these companies sometimes (not always!) extend the same benefits to live-in boyfriends and girlfriends of heterosexuals, too.

BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, MY FRIEND, IT WAS -- AND IS --
THE RADICAL HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVISTS WHO HAVE PUSHED FOR THESE
POLICIES.

Of course, ANY kind of "equal" treatment for non-married couples sends the message that "Marriage is no big deal," and "Our company sees no value in marriage!"

So you might think it was just a handful of companies that would act this way. But NO -- I'm talking about companies YOU deal with all the time!
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:14 am | #

Did anyone happen to see this piece of shit? Zell honors Swift Boat Vets

Sometimes, it feels like we're literally living on Planet of the Apes.

The fact that these fools would get together to revel in slandering a war veteran is just too much to swallow.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 9:14 am | #

It goes on for another 40 paragraphs or so in that vein...
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:15 am | #

Economy is rollin' !!!!!
Mr.Murder

Not just the economy, the financial economy!
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:15 am | #

NPR, singin' the praises of the mormons this morning. LDS is American thru-and-thru. Good for me and good for you.
nur al cubicle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:16 am | #

tbone,

Bush just ruined the Medal Of Freedom for all time by handing them out to the 3 stoodges.
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 9:16 am | #

Vicki,
The pic of Miller there is great!

Thanks for visiting my blog. You're so sweet!
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:17 am | #

Someone upthread mentioned the the lobbyist nitwit on CSPAN this morning ~ shorter version: lobbying is good. Lobbyists are ethical. Anyone can be a lobbyist, even po' folk, just pick up the phone.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 9:17 am | #

France: Where fucking is sacred!

And good food.

Tell me again why I'm supposed to hate the French....
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:18 am | #

Best ever name for ferrets- Herman. He was an albino.
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:19 am | #

Tell me again why I'm supposed to hate the French....
Robert M. Jeffers

because they hate freedom fries, silly.
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:20 am | #

NYMary ~

Truly cute child! The song "Tiny Bubbles" is now running through my mind!

Now, care to explain your actions?
UBH,/i>

It's too early for this type of shit. Atrios, ban his other IP address. As a service to good liberals everywhere.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 9:20 am | #

Tell me again why I'm supposed to hate the French....
Robert M. Jeffers

because they hate freedom fries, silly.
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:20 am | #

atrios didn't ban you, if anything it was hellascan malfunction...
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:20 am | #

Just for the record -- before D--

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzz...
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:22 am | #

Tell me again why I'm supposed to hate the French....
Robert M. Jeffers

Non! The French are good people. I'm part French (that's why I;m such a good kisser)!
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 9:22 am | #

UBH

You don't appear to be banned to me.
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:22 am | #

BTW, am I the only one who gets a real kick out of a moronic brownshirt fuck who indignantly posts over and over how he's banned from posting...
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:23 am | #

...well I'm sure he'll ban you soon enough then...sit tight.
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:24 am | #

psssst...RMJ!

(In your most recent post: its doesn't take an apostrophe as a possessive. Oops!)
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:24 am | #

...well I'm sure he'll ban you soon enough then...sit tight.
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:24 am | #

psssst...RMJ!

(In your most recent post: its doesn't take an apostrophe as a possessive. Oops!)
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:24 am | #

Duncan has better things to do, like subvert Democracy and the Merkin way o' life!

Dude get a new meme the Duncan is E-vile doesn't pass the mustard.

Even if it was French's mustard.
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:25 am | #

I'm using a different IP that (atrios) hasn't banned...

Gosh, and what might those other IPs be used for? Can you say "multi-personality troll disorder?"
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:25 am | #

BTW, am I the only one who gets a real kick out of a moronic brownshirt fuck who indignantly posts over and over how he's banned from posting...
dave

Yep! Love your posts, though.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 9:25 am | #

I'm using a different IP that (atrios) hasn't banned...

Gosh, and what might those other IPs be used for? Can you say "multi-personality troll disorder?"
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:25 am | #

Haloscan burps, this guy posts repeatedly about Gary Webb (we get the point by now), and now is into whining about being "banned."

Which clearly didn't work, so the problem is....?

My limited experience with Haloscan tells me (a) Atrios would have to notice the post (b) would have to go to Haloscan and call up this thread and (c) then act to ban someone.

And I've seldom seen Atrios respond that quickly to comments on his threads. I assume he generally has better things to do.

I mean, this guy isn't even as obnoxious as the troll who used to "break" Haloscan on a regular basis, and it would be left broken for, well...quite too long, usually.

But the mention of "Gary Webb" is enough to send Atrios into overdrive?

Dream on. You aren't nearly that important, and, besides...

...you're still here.
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:25 am | #

Did you guys hear about the fucking 40-ft Santa Claus outside the US Interests Section in Havana?

Our Santa's dick is fucking bigger than el pene de Papá Noel.

Don't invite the Interests Section anywhere. They don't know how to behave.
nur al cubicle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:26 am | #

UBH sez:

Because I'm using a different IP that Duncan hasn't banned. . .yet.

Just wait.

You're a jackass, y'know?

.
spork_incident | 12.17.04 - 9:26 am | #

BTW, am I the only one who gets a real kick out of a moronic brownshirt fuck who indignantly posts over and over how he's banned from posting...
dave

I think it's a pathetic cry for help.
Ô¿Ô | 12.17.04 - 9:26 am | #

Ah yes, like a stalker calling from a pay phone to complain about his number being blocked.

"I won't be ignored, Atrios!"
PapaJijo | 12.17.04 - 9:27 am | #

RMJ, I meant post at Adventus. Silly me.
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:27 am | #

Ah yes, like a stalker calling from a pay phone to complain about his number being blocked.

"I won't be ignored, Atrios!"
PapaJijo | 12.17.04 - 9:27 am | #

RMJ, I meant post at Adventus. Silly me.
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:27 am | #

psssst...RMJ!

(In your most recent post: its [sic] doesn't take an apostrophe as a possessive. Oops!)

I make that mistake all the time. Some kind of weird reflex. I've taken to chalking it up as another typo, and moving on.....
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:27 am | #

And remember kids - every day is "Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks" Day!

(Friday is for catblogging...)
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:27 am | #

New thread please, so this guy can post the samem thread issue and play victim again!
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:28 am | #

Mr. Murder,
What about Grey Poupon?
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:30 am | #

Yeah I'm a man of the cloth (takes off collar as I finish shot of whiskey...)

RMJ -I loved your cameo in Kingpin!
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:30 am | #

Please ask Duncan whether or not he or his crew banned me.

I'm sure he wouldn't lie to a man of the cloth . . .

right?

Then report your findings.

You've mistaken me for someone who cares.

And you've milked this, now, for all the attention its {note to NYMary! And thanks, I'm off to Adventus!) worth.

Go back to whining, if that's all you have to say. I'll go back to skipping over your comments.
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:31 am | #

Saddam & co's rushed trial shows to coincide with the American xmas holidays...great...
Peter | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:31 am | #

Massive story in the UK this morning: UK law lords (equivalent to the US supremes) smack down Blair & co hard in 8-1 verdict vs "terror" law used to detain people without trial. Detainees being held w/o trial can now appeal.

Law Lord Hoffmann (who got smacked down over Pinochet case) said:

"The real threat to the life of the nation ... comes not from terrorism but from laws such as these.
Serendipity | 12.17.04 - 9:31 am | #

I've seldom seen Atrios respond that quickly to comments on his threads. I assume he generally has better things to do.

He can be on the ball when he wants to. You might not remember our old Christmas troll who posted from his Mommy's bedroom using her AOL account. A-Man was johnny-on-the-spot with that one: he called the kid's mom. Poof! Troll explode!
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:31 am | #

Economy is rollin' !!!!!
Mr.Murder

Not just the economy, the financial economy!

That's why the insiders are bailing out of the stock market in large numbers.

Seems that Krugman's characterization of the Wily Coyote Economy is(pardon the expression)On The Money. Wily has just run over the edge of the cliff whilst chasing Roadrunner. Now Wily looks down at the thousand-foot drop and...
Angry Blue Planet | 12.17.04 - 9:32 am | #

(Friday is for catblogging...)
dave

Be careful, Dave. That is one big, beautiful cat.
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:32 am | #

Anyway, so after reading that article on ripping flesh from children, I started to compose a song for it. Sing to the tune of 'Puttin' on the Style':

Ripping flesh from children, we all do it every day

When we say 'Support the troops', we mean rip that child's flesh away!

Bombing rips up children, whether terrorist or plane,

Everybody loves it so there is no one to blame!
Mike | 12.17.04 - 9:34 am | #

I didn't ban anyone for posting webb links. Either I banned you under a different name or I banned someone else with the same IP.

But, either way you've qualified for a ban the same reason most people do, for repeating "MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME" over and over and over and over...
Atrios | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:34 am | #

Oh, NYMary--

Thanks for giving me he opportunity to blogwhore, too.

We should tie in our posts about Christmas. I have more Xmas music than I can listen to in December (and I try to keep it away from the stereo until at least 12/15, so I don't overload), but I have little in the way of "pop" or "rock" or just "modern" stuff. (Well, modern "classical," and a few country/Austin type albums; just acquired Asleep at the Wheel's "Merry Texas Christmas, Y'all," which I'm gonna wear out by 12/25), so anyway...

keep posting those Xmas song suggestions, will ya?
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:34 am | #

Gary's head has fewer holes in it than your story about being banned. SHOOOO TROLL
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:34 am | #

Now Wily looks down at the thousand-foot drop and...
Angry Blue Planet

ACME!
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:35 am | #

That is one big, beautiful cat.

Which one?
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:35 am | #

Now Wily looks down at the thousand-foot drop and...
Angry Blue Planet

ACME!
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:35 am | #

That is one big, beautiful cat.

Which one?
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:35 am | #

Is it just me, or is Xmas comming too early this year? Panic is setting in. Too much to do and here I sit, glued to the PC.
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 9:35 am | #

An old NY Post ad

Downtown space to rent?
Run down the homeless, no strings!
Call Kerik, ask how!
haiku jimmy | 12.17.04 - 9:35 am | #

RMJ, I'm terrified that you appreciate this. And I thought you were so serious!
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:36 am | #

It's like that scene from 'Family Guy' where the kid says 'got your nose' to his dad, who retorts with 'Oh yeah? Well I got you're face' as he rips the kid's face off.
Mike | 12.17.04 - 9:36 am | #

Yeah I'm a man of the cloth (takes off collar as I finish shot of whiskey...)

RMJ -I loved your cameo in Kingpin!
Mr.Murder | *it bears repeating*
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:37 am | #

There I was, there I was, there I was,

alright, enough about me.

I want recognition, praise, and thereby, validation!

So, it's your turn to discuss topic A: meeeeeeeemeeeeeeeemeeeeeeeeyeeeeaaaaaawooooohoooon ie!
rob | 12.17.04 - 9:37 am | #

The Wall of Shame is a great idea.

Allen Boyd - otherwise known as Rat Bastard. To paraphrase Johnny Rotten, does anyone else ever get the feeling you've been cheated in giving donations to Democrats or the DNC? I know I do. At a time period when it should be pretty fucking easy to differentiate between Dems and Reps it is hard to tell the difference in recent years.
Syd Barrett | 12.17.04 - 9:37 am | #

Massive story in the UK this morning: UK law lords (equivalent to the US supremes) smack down Blair & co hard in 8-1 verdict vs "terror" law used to detain people without trial. Detainees being held w/o trial can now appeal.

Our Supreme Court handed down essentially the same ruling.

Bush & Co have simply ignored it. Nice living under an elected dictator, isn't it?

He can be on the ball when he wants to. You might not remember our old Christmas troll who posted from his Mommy's bedroom using her AOL account. A-Man was johnny-on-the-spot with that one: he called the kid's mom. Poof! Troll explode!

Ah...good times...good times....
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:38 am | #

Which one?
dave

Sorry. Just saw the black fella...gorgeous...
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:38 am | #

Thanks, Dave. Now I know why that po' Modesto Fertilizer Salesguy got railroaded. Homersexyool high jackers!
Peter Scottson | 12.17.04 - 9:39 am | #

New to this blog.

Quick ?

I can't seem to find the option to higlight text and make it a link. Do I need to write my own tag?

BTW if anyone wants to sharkblog I am ready. Almost all of the right wing blogs I have visited seem to be politely glossing over this recent smear over the bad press they have been receiving.

Losers. I wish if they were as brave as their blogs they should all be in Iraq. Besides I just read about a guy who is almost seventy called up to go to Iraq after over fifteen years of dismissal from service.

Plenty of room for those Neocons to sacrifice themselves as human armour for the Humvees they seem to think are fine as long as Rummy says so.

/rant off
EmpiricalData | 12.17.04 - 9:40 am | #

Fannie Mae Warns Congress Not to Release Staff Pay Details
"... criminal proceedings.. mentioned that Kenneth W. Starr ... is serving as Fannie's outside counsel on this "
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:40 am | #

Everyone see Southpark's _A Critter Christmas_? When the satanic critter blood orgy came on, I turned to my girlfriend and said 'Well, that's something you don't see every day'.
Mike | 12.17.04 - 9:40 am | #

RMJ, I'm terrified that you appreciate this. And I thought you were so serious!

Even deadly dull people like to smile.

And bigvic...allow me the chance to shamelessly blogwhore again....(as long as I don't mention "me"--obviously Atrios knows when we are posting, and knows what we have said....)*

*it's a good thing.
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:41 am | #

Holy cow. Now Celebrex shows increased risk of heart attack. Hmmm, what to do? Risk a heart attack or walk upright?
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 9:41 am | #

Catalonia, Catalonia, rah rah rah
France forever, France forever, ooo la la.

Let's hear it for sex!
Let's hear it for garlic!
Let's hear it for wine!

Let's hear it for national health care!
Let's hear it for state-guaranteed pensions!
Let's hear it for an army that stays at home.
Let's hear it for abortion rights!

Woo! Yay!
Down with les sales Républicains!
Down with los fundies pendejos!
Down with trolls!

Vive l'Amérique de gauche!
Vivan los secularistas americanos!
Noo-York, Berkeley forever!
nur al cubicle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:42 am | #

I can tell you that the financial economy is starting to roll- lots of mergers and acquisitions, and initial public offerings.

It's what keeps the market moving in a world of low job growth.

The American Conservative Union on Thursday announced it has tapped Sen. Zell Miller to present the "Courage Under Fire" award to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth at the Conservative Political Action Conference's Feb. 18 banquet.

Now, were the banquet hall mysteriously to be blown into smithereens... well, I'd laugh.
pseudonymous in nc | 12.17.04 - 9:42 am | #

Heh. This is great. Because New Paltz, NY, had the temerity to issue a few licenses for gay marriages, now they are not being allowed to marry ANYONE at all!

The absurdity...
rorschach | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:42 am | #

Does anyone have an idea about why
the economy is a non issue?

I mean, it's tanking and it's totally
off the media radar.

Oh wait....
steve simels | 12.17.04 - 9:43 am | #

Tell me again why I'm supposed to hate the French....
Robert M. Jeffers

cuz they don't have pinon coffee???

did it get there yet?
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 9:43 am | #

Shorter UBH: 'Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!'
pseudonymous in nc | 12.17.04 - 9:44 am | #

Atrios rocks. I'm not gay, but whenever I hear his mellifluous voice on Air America Radio it always gives me a woody. I even told my wife to try to talk like him to see if it would help with our recent problems, but now she won't say anything at all and doesn't seem too interested. Women - go figure.
Huge Fan | 12.17.04 - 9:44 am | #

bigvic,
What doews Celebrex treat? I can never keep them straight.
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:44 am | #

cuz they don't have pinon coffee???

did it get there yet?

Not yet. But if it doesn't come soon, send me an address via e-mail, I'll send you the check anyway.

Don't want you gettin' stiffed on this deal.
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:45 am | #

RMJ,

I'm a complete sucker for a blogwhore. Just ask attaturk. Heh. And BTW, I noticed one of the first words on your homepage was ME.
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 9:45 am | #

Why blown up? If someone put a large flush sound over the PA and all those Swiffers went through life jacket drill it would be enough...
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:46 am | #

rorschach -

Nice (re: New Patz, NY).

I think I'll throw that one up over at skippy's place.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:46 am | #

dave - Nice Blackie kitty!

And why we're supposed to hate the French? Surely you remember the notorious incident involving Rumsfeld and the berets?

Oh and that 'UBH' fool - there's a little performance art/'academic research' project going on. It's being conducted by several of our more irritating trolls - UBH, jfr.... ad nauseum. It's not that they're bad, of course. It's that they so horribly well define the term "third rate".
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:46 am | #

Just wondering why you guys so readily dismiss the very real concerns of thousands of people including various 9/11 victims groups who have literally mountains of data, all legally admissible.

I have been reading a bunch of 'coincidence' theories the past couple years, and they all point to a common thread, nicely unified in 'Crossing the Rubicon' by Michael Rupert of www.fromthewilderness.com.

Over 900 legally admissible references can't all be wrong. On the 15th, there was a caller from New York that talked about www.investigatethesec.com and you dismissed that out of hand.

What I find so amazing is that people spend their lives in pursuit of religion, which literally has NO admissible evidence, none, and yet, with mountains of data indicating something is terribly wrong, refuse to face it.
FoxholeAtheist | 12.17.04 - 9:46 am | #

NYMary - Thanks for the pic of little Thersites - he's gorgeous! You and big Thersites make beautiful children.
Tena | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:47 am | #

Have the "Thought Police" arrived?
Rudy | Email | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 8:40 am | # .......................................What? ...............You have'nt had your FBI approved brain stem implant yet?..........Mine is the Johnny Ashcroft model,$14.96 at Walmart.
notch | 12.17.04 - 9:47 am | #

Dave-thanks for the pics.
Deckko | 12.17.04 - 9:47 am | #

UBH = Ultra ButtHole.
Prince O'Peas | 12.17.04 - 9:47 am | #

I'm a complete sucker for a blogwhore. Just ask attaturk. Heh. And BTW, I noticed one of the first words on your homepage was ME.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo! {searching for onamtopoetic for slowly gurgling down long, deep drain....]

whataworld whataworld whataworld.....
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:48 am | #

Bush & Co have simply ignored it. Nice living under an elected dictator, isn't it?

That's partly because the UK detainees are in Belmarsh (London) not Gitmo. I still want to know if Diego Garcia is being used for detentions. There are plenty of rumours, but since there's no access to the island -- the UK kicked off the islanders and leased it to the US as a naval/air base -- we don't know anything for sure.
pseudonymous in nc | 12.17.04 - 9:48 am | #

I'm a complete sucker for a blogwhore. Just ask attaturk.

And thank you. I blogwhore because I can't wait around to be noticed for quality -- that would be a hell of a wait.
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:48 am | #

Tena-

I'm waiting for you to post so I can overwrite it.

Hee.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:48 am | #

By the way, folks, I'm not quite done, but close enough to relax a bit. Man!

I started this semester with Baby Rosie--and was in the classroom four days after birth. Then there was all the late unpleasantness in November. It's been a bit of a haul. Thanks for the sense of community. It helps, seriously.
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:49 am | #

And thank you. I blogwhore because I can't wait around to be noticed for quality -- that would be a hell of a wait.

In the spirit of the season (and in a completely manly way, of course):

"I think somebody needs a hug!"

--Will Farrel, Elf
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:51 am | #

Tena,
I won't tell him that you called him "Big Thersites"--but thanks.
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:51 am | #

These days they can implant little transmitter chips inside kids, but how about implanting some seeds into kids in a war zone? That way, when some bomb rips their fleshg away, a little flower can grow, fertilized by the decomposing kid-flesh.

Sorry I'm in a really bad mood today.
Mike | 12.17.04 - 9:51 am | #

"And again, thanks for admitting that, despite what your readers think, you really DO ban people for stupid shit!"

There you have it. Defense admits guilt in statement. Prosecution rests... claims to have been banned, says hosts bans people for "stupid shit". Please be more specefic or we'll contiinue to assume your stupid shit is in reference to self!

Same reason I abhor Bush I abhor your attempt at victimization- It's the stupid, stupid!
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:52 am | #

Glad you liked the story, Holden.

And, really, the way you torment Tena is...well, amusing, rather.
rorschach | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:52 am | #

I started this semester with Baby Rosie--and was in the classroom four days after birth. Then there was all the late unpleasantness in November. It's been a bit of a haul. Thanks for the sense of community. It helps, seriously.

Yeesh!

I mean this as a high compliment for such strength and tenacity:

NYMary, you are a warrior!

Now get some rest.....
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:52 am | #

attaturk! Thanks for clearing up the code for a strike-over. I was just looking at your page's source and found it - great! What a nice present on a dull day.
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:53 am | #

And bigvic...allow me the chance to shamelessly blogwhore again....(as long as I don't mention "me"--obviously Atrios knows when we are posting, and knows what we have said....)*

*it's a good thing.
Robert M. Jeffers

...

He knows when you've been FREEPing
He knows when you're opaque

(from Atrios Is Coming To Town)
fourmorewars | 12.17.04 - 9:53 am | #

specific*
Stupid of me I know...
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:54 am | #

I know one thing that has me wishing someone would be banned, when they insist on using someone's actual name over and over and over like it's some sort of weapon when we all know what it really is already.

I refer to those people as a putz, a schmuck, a moron, a jerk, an irritating asshole, a jackass.
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:54 am | #

An AP article reporting that television hates God. The article is based on a study conducted by the Parents Television Council, the same astroturf organization responsible for filing a record number of FCC complaints alleging obscenity on TV.

These people never give up and the media gives them a mouthpiece.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/...html? oref=login
yankeedoodle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:55 am | #

These days they can implant little transmitter chips inside kids

How about implanting a microphone chip inside our leaders and politicians, so we can hear everything they say?
nur al cubicle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:55 am | #

And, really, the way you torment Tena is...well, amusing, rather.
rorschach

I'm just trying to goad a response out of her.

Tena is funny when she's riled.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:56 am | #

attaturk! Thanks for clearing up the code for a strike-over. I was just looking at your page's source and found it - great! What a nice present on a dull day.

Thanks. I am by nature an HTML genius.

I also lie on occasion.
attaturk | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:56 am | #

"How about implanting a microphone chip inside our leaders and politicians, so we can hear everything they say?"

And then, little microchip blockers can be implanted. Welcome to the Resistance!

(I'm very, very sorry. Very sorry. Sorry. Going away now.)
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:57 am | #

Just saw the black fella...gorgeous...

That's Blackie. He's one of the outdoor cats - in fact, he's the last of the outdoor cats, as he's an outdoor cat that won't come in, no way, no how.

If you look beneath the photo, there's a "Next" link that takes you through the other six pages!
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:57 am | #

why link them? people click on and it gives them traffic and google ratings.

Someone needs to find convenient ways of obstructing them. Countersuits perhaps?
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:57 am | #

yankeedoodle,
I was pretty sure God hated television, actually.
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:57 am | #

"How about implanting a microphone chip inside our leaders and politicians, so we can hear everything they say?"

It wpuld only be shocking because they have to say all the things we would like to say but can't. Like who to bomb today. Who to kill. How many kids getting their flesh ripped away is 'acceptable' collateral damage. How many folks do we have to kill before we can again feel secure. Stuff like that.
Mike | 12.17.04 - 9:58 am | #

T minus chimp and counting. Bushco to sign new gestapo reform bill today.

Waiting for him to show up. CSpan taking late calls in the wait.

"The CHimp has landed?"
Mr.Murder | 12.17.04 - 9:58 am | #

If you look beneath the photo, there's a "Next" link that takes you through the other six pages!
dave

It took me a while, but I figured it out. Thanks!
notEsfahan | 12.17.04 - 9:59 am | #

Awwwww, RMJ
*blush*
NYMary | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:59 am | #

Ban him I say! Ban some sense into him!
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 9:59 am | #

Okay, I have a story I want to share. I've been thinking about this all night, and I didn't sleep well.

Yesterday evening, I attended my daughter's high school choir concert. It was a combined concert, actually, of the satellite middle school and the high school. It was a very strange concert, though, in that it had a definite, pro-military bias.

The evening opened with the JR ROTC color guard marching into the auditorium, chanting basic ROTC themes. They post the flag. The choir director then gives a speech about how we should support the troops and President Bush during this holiday season, and how we should remember our soliders in Iraq, knowing that many of them will never make it home. He then asks for veterans in the audience to stand up, and asks the audience to give all the veterans a standing ovation to thank them for their service. He again mentions how we should unify to support the troops and President Bush. He states that at the end of the concert, the ROTC color guard will do another march, followed by the combined choirs leading the audience in unison through the tune "God Bless America."
Choir director then leads the group of about 400 people in the Pledge of Allegiance.

About this time, my blood is boiling from this blatant expose of jingoism. I refused to say the Pledge, casting my eyes down and placing both hands behind my back.

I sat through an hour and a half of the program. Toward the end, a senior with a mediocre alto voice, which was at times ear-piercingly flat, sings "I'll Be Home for Christmas" (classic WWII song, as I'm sure most of you know). She is dressed in Red, White, and Blue.

By the end of the program (my daughter's choir was the last to sing), I decide to leave before the second act of the ROTC business and the anticipated, rousing rendition of "God Bless America."

I'm out in the hallway, looking at the artwork and just mulling around, waiting for the whole thing to be over, and this father, who also has a daughter on the swim team and in choir, joins me. He says, "Is is me, or is Mr. XXX glorifying the military tonight?"

I said, "Oh, it's not you, I'm really irritated by this whole display of love for President Bush. Makes me sick."

He's in total agreement, and we go on to discuss politics and the illegal war, and how it feels like 1930s Germany, the rabid pseudo patriotism and jingoism. We both vowed to write the teacher and the principal.

In all my years of attending every event that my daughter has been involved in, I have never seen anything like what I saw last night. I'm still sorting it out. It has a creepy feeling to it, like we're on the precipice of a new world order. I don't like it.

Hell, I can't recall saying the Pledge at any concert before this one (they have said the Pledge and played the Star Spangled Banner at swim meets ~ that's fine, but a choir concert?).

What is going on here?

Thanks for reading, I need
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 10:00 am | #

(continued)

I needed to get this out of my brain ~ it helps sort through it all.

Sorry for the long post...
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 10:01 am | #

as Duncan's readers so kindly said about Michelle Malkin.

I think we know the full story now.
Snow | 12.17.04 - 10:01 am | #

UBH, I'd even be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were on our side...but right about now I wanna Joe Pesci and ask him to bring over his long needle...and sit in the car seat right behind you.
fourmorewars | 12.17.04 - 10:02 am | #

nur al cubicle :

RE: Implanting Microphones in Leaders:

Have you read "The Light of Other Days" by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter? This is one of the coolest books I have read, and directly addresses the answer to your question. In it, the authors present a new technology revolving around little teeny tiny Worm-Holes.

At first, the protagonists discover that they can displace a wormhole instantaneously through space anywhere: which leads them to be able to debunk/refute evil bad politicians: the POTUS meats with the leader of the 51st state (Great Britain) over water wars on Air Force 2 (I think that is what they call the helicopters), and the good guys over hear the conversation, and 'leak' the story over normal channels. The only thing was, the conversation took place in such a super-secure environment, that no normal eaves dropping technologies could have accomplished the feat.

Eventually, the technology is able to look back through both TIME and space; and all of sudden, the emperor really has no clothes (nor any of us for that matter).

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obido...=books& n=507846
FoxholeAtheist | 12.17.04 - 10:03 am | #

I don't agree with people who like to come here and bash Atrios. I think he's great, and is clearly a man of great patience for putting up with all these guys. And he has a beautiful head of blond hair from what I've seen in the pictures. That reminds me - Atrios, you don't post enough pictures of yourself. I wonder if he has that soft thin type of fair hair or if it's thicker and more full-bodied. My wife has hair too now that I think of it.
Huge Fan | 12.17.04 - 10:03 am | #

yeah, but how's the non-financial economy doing?

I think our friend is working on Sesame Street, not Wall Street.
cdelia | 12.17.04 - 10:04 am | #

Eventually, the technology is able to look back through both TIME and space

Well we sure needed that for the supersecret Bush-Blair-Aznar meeting in the Azores.
nur al cubicle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:05 am | #

UBH,

You don't look banned to me.

Perhaps you're having a DNS problem?
cdelia | 12.17.04 - 10:05 am | #

Cuz not everyone wants to register to read, here's Bob Herbert's NYT column today.
Fiddling as Iraq Burns
By BOB HERBERT
The White House seems to have slipped the bonds of simple denial and escaped into the disturbing realm of utter delusion. On Tuesday, there was President Bush hanging the nation's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, on George Tenet, the former C.I.A. director who slept through the run-up to Sept. 11 and then did the president and the nation the great disservice of declaring that it was a "slam-dunk" that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

It was a fatal misjudgment.

Another Medal of Freedom was given to Paul Bremer III, the chief civilian administrator of the American occupation, who made the heavily criticized decision to disband the defeated Iraqi Army and presided over an ever-worsening security situation. Thousands upon thousands have died in this unnecessary and incompetently conducted war, yet here was the president handing out medals as if some kind of triumph had been achieved. If these guys could get the highest civilian award, what honor is left for someone who actually does a good job?

A third medal was given to Gen. Tommy Franks, who led the invasion of Iraq, which Mr. Bush, in his peculiar way, has characterized as a "catastrophic success." It's an interesting term. Some people have applied it to the president's run for re-election.

By anyone's standards, terrible things are happening in Iraq, and no amount of self-congratulation in Washington can take the edge off the horror being endured by American troops or the unrelenting agony of the Iraqi people. The disconnect between the White House's fantasyland and the world of war in Iraq could hardly have been illustrated more starkly than by a pair of front-page articles in The New York Times on Dec. 10. The story at the top of the page carried the headline: "It's Inauguration Time Again, and Access Still Has Its Price - $250,000 Buys Lunch With President and More."

The headline on the story beneath it said: "Armor Scarce for Heavy Trucks Transporting U.S. Cargo in Iraq."

This administration has many things on its mind besides the welfare of overstretched, ill-equipped G.I.'s dodging bombers and snipers in Iraq. In addition to the inauguration, which will cost tens of millions of dollars, Mr. Bush is busy with his obsessive campaign against "junk and frivolous lawsuits," his effort to further lighten the tax load on the nation's wealthiest individuals and corporations, and his campaign to cut the legs from under the proudest achievement of the New Deal, Social Security.

So much for America's wartime priorities.

Even domestic security gets short shrift. During the Republican convention, Mr. Bush said, "I wake up every morning thinking about how to better protect our country." Try squaring that with the Bernard Kerik fiasco, in which the administration's background check of its c
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 10:06 am | #

Maybe we could implant scream-activated microphones into kids. Thay way, when their flesh gets ripped away, we can hear their death-screams. It'd go on 24/7/365. It'd be like a continuous soundtrack of the living hell we've made of this planet.
Mike | 12.17.04 - 10:06 am | #

Vicki--

Sounds like the 1950's time warped "America" I grew up in (small town in East Texas, and not in the '50's, but everyone thought it was).

For various personal reasons, I haven't recited the Pledge of Allegiance in decades. I don't even like to be anywhere where it is being recited.

But this is clearly our national secular religion: pomp, ceremony, ritual, common recital or memorized words. 'Twas not always thus in America, but has become so since the end or WWII. What you are seeing is not a change, just a continuation of that pattern.

And you are right: it is creepy.

Time for coffee and pizza (gotta get the morning started somehow!)
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:06 am | #

I think we know the full story now.

Oh, I think we knew the full story from the get-go.

It's a boring old tale that's been told too many fucking times...
dave | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:07 am | #

Angry Blue Dude,

The economy is cranking. The issue is probably that the pendulum has swung too far with regards to the market forces versus compassionate corporate culture.

Insider stock sales are high right now surely, but several factors mitigate it's predictive quality.

1. stock options are in rampant use now, for compensation. We now see executive profit taking, after several years of a down market.

2. The sales are taking place in an up market.

With interests rates at emergency levels the past three years, the economy better be cranking. And the tax cuts? We can thank our unborn grandchildren for breaking open their piggybanks for that one!
(see shame)

Ther will be record profits this year. The problem is that company's are unwilling to employ new workers.

Primariy because of the cost of health care.

I just reviewed United Health's earnings. They are a bigass HMO that is tracking to make 4 bill in profits
next year on 40 bil in revenues.

That's just silly. The pharm's make billions each year, okay, they do the research to improve our lives, f-em, but nobody's going to tell them to adhere to the Gov. Lamm's dictum that "the old people have a duty to die."

The hospitals are making money. Good
the doctors are making money. Good

but UNH is just a middleman, standing there taking over 10% for every transaction they make.

We need a national cooperative, a non-profit HMO that takes the 4 bill profit and lowers premiums with it.

But, then again, that ain't gonna happen!

It's all good though, because the peace dividend is on the way. PITME in 2005. I have a running battle with KRSAZ here on that.

Peace in the middle east will effectively liquify the world's economy. Such that, I predict that US corporatio0ns will get fat and happy again. And compassionate. Meaning that they hire millions more workers a year for several years in a row, Clinton style.

PITME update:

12/15- Sharon hails Palestianian state- considering the occupation "to be a horrible disaster for both peoples" and " 2005... a year in which we can establish the foundation of a long lasting Isr.- Pal. agreement.

12/15 NYT- 8 bill to Palestine in donations if elections successful.

December- Abbas decries violence, calls for end of all hostilities on his side, unconditionally.

Iraq- As sad a debacle as it is, the situation has become a small civil war with a thorn in it's paw. ( the US being the thorn) Elections will take place, Sunni's will get some power, and those Sunni, Baathist, and Al Qeadian that represent the insurgency will be marginalized, and defeated. They are no longer fighting us. We have stepped aside.
They are only hurting their own people now. Which an Iraqi govt., representative of the people, will not tolerate.

Spring is coming!
rob | 12.17.04 - 10:07 am | #

Cuz not everyone wants to register to read, here's Bob Herbert's NYT column today.
Fiddling as Iraq Burns
By BOB HERBERT (part 2)
...
Even domestic security gets short shrift. During the Republican convention, Mr. Bush said, "I wake up every morning thinking about how to better protect our country." Try squaring that with the Bernard Kerik fiasco, in which the administration's background check of its candidate for the nation's ultimate domestic security post was handled with the same calamitous incompetence as the intelligence effort that led to the war in Iraq.

Mr. Bush's pick (at Rudy Giuliani's urging) for homeland security secretary turned out to be a slick character who had once ducked a required F.B.I. clearance, had a social relationship with the owner of a company suspected of business ties to organized crime figures and had rented a love nest that overlooked the ruins of the World Trade Center.

"I'm Not Perfect," said a headline next to Mr. Kerik's picture in Tuesday's New York Post.

You wonder, with so much at stake, where to look in the Bush constellation for the care and competence that the times call for. Colin Powell is heading toward the exit, to be replaced by Condoleezza Rice, who did her best to petrify the nation with loose talk about mushroom clouds. Dick Cheney would still have us believe in a link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda.

The man who took the lead in vetting Bernie Kerik, the White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, was also the point person in the administration's bid to duck the constraints of the Geneva Conventions, and even to justify torture.

Mr. Gonzales is a favorite of the president, who has nominated him to be attorney general and may someday appoint him to the Supreme Court.

Medals anyone? The president may actually believe that this crowd is the best and brightest America has to offer. Which is disturbing.
E-mail: bobherb@nytimes.com
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 10:07 am | #

Rmj, attaturk,

Whore away fells. I think the quality is just fine.
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 10:08 am | #

I'm not gay, but whenever I hear his mellifluous voice on Air America Radio it always gives me a woody.

The request still stands: Atrios, please record my outgoing message on my answering machine.

Please?
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 10:09 am | #

Aw, who fucked up Haloscan this time?
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 10:10 am | #

Methinks UBH = da trufe.

Same tenacity.
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 10:11 am | #

Kono,

While I was reading Herbert's column this morning I heard a little voice saying, "It's way too early to be sick already."
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 10:12 am | #

Methinks UBH = da trufe.

Same tenacity.

Same limited range, too.
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:12 am | #

Yushenko poison toxicology report issed today by a bona-fide institution, not that private clinic up in the Alps:

Tetrachlorodibenzoparadioxin, also known as 2,3,7,8-Tcdd, the principal component of Agent Orange.

Report issued by Abraham Brouwer, Professor of Environmental Toxicology at the University of Amsterdam.

Analysis shows that Yushenko had 100,000 units of Tcdd in his blood, the second highest level ever registered in a human. "It is not possible that this level of contamination is in any way natural.", said Brower.
nur al cubicle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:14 am | #

Aw, who fucked up Haloscan this time?
watertiger

What's the problem?
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:14 am | #

This just in...
'UBH lacks attention in his life.
He has few freinds and resents his mother. His dad walked out several years ago without explaination; some people said "he just needed time to think."
Others, who went bowling every Tuesday with UBHs dad, knew that he was just a pussy who couldn't handle a child with severe social disabililty.'

Developing...
urgentnewsfeed | 12.17.04 - 10:15 am | #

Sorry about the earlier repeated messages: apparently I was refreshing the page after I posted, each time refreshing reposting the original message. Would be cool if this didn't turn off my Google Toolbar. Kind of sucks when developer program a popup and remove functionality from the window I have grown accustomed to using.

BTW: I wasn't outright criticizing atrios: The Majority Report is my favorite show on AAR right now, and you have done a great job on the show!
FoxholeAtheist | 12.17.04 - 10:15 am | #

Shorter UBH:
Waaaaaaaahhhhh, waaaaaaahhh, everybody pay attention to meeee, its all about meeeeee. Waaaaaahhhhh

Jeez, what a fucking whiner..
Party Line | 12.17.04 - 10:15 am | #

What's the problem?

margins. it's all about the margins.

sorry, cranky. haven't had breakfast yet.
watertiger | 12.17.04 - 10:15 am | #

Robert,

I neglected to add that Audrey attends a public school...

but then most regulars probably know that.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 10:17 am | #

(o)(o)
wÒÓ† | 12.17.04 - 10:18 am | #

sorry, cranky. haven't had breakfast yet.
watertiger

Sounds like a marginal complaint to me.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:18 am | #

Vicki,

Yikes! That is completely berserk. What a way to ruin a holiday concert. How did the majority of the audience react?
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 10:18 am | #

Ol' Stats up there, the "Wall Street Lawyer" seems to think he's found Holden's Bush Boom.

Too bad the Wall Street Journal doesn't agree. According to Mr. Tena, WSJ readers are pissed at the preznit. They don't agree with anything he's doing, except keeping the terra-ists away. I don't have a subscription to the Journal online - but apparently there was a poll published yesterday that shows Bush's approvals hitting the skids on everything except terra-ism.
Tena | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:19 am | #

Please, join me and Robert M. Jeffers in ignoring UBH. It's easy, just blow right by the unit's tedious posts.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 10:19 am | #

Everyone see Southpark's _A Critter Christmas_? When the satanic critter blood orgy came on, I turned to my girlfriend and said 'Well, that's something you don't see every day'.

That was kind of my thought as well. I was happy when Santa brought the mountain lion back to life though.

That Cartman, what a scamp!
four legs good | 12.17.04 - 10:21 am | #

What a free speech defender, huh? A real liberty lover!
UBH

I should point out that even though you have the right to free speech, you probably shouldn't use that right to refer to the Marines serving in Fallujah as "cowards."

Man, that's low.
wÒÓ† | 12.17.04 - 10:22 am | #

Ignore UBH! Rather than responding to that troll, why not enjoy a little Friday catblogging!
rorschach | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:23 am | #

Just saying. Gee, can't be certain, but there are so many deeply familiar aspects to the conversation. Performance art - well, as anyone in the community could tell you, it does have its risks.

RONAN,JOHN FRANCIS

Graduate Teaching Assistant

Campus 4008 TUR
GAINESVILLE, FL, US
32611
+1 352 392-6650
PO BOX 117310
GAINESVILLE, FL, US
32611-7310

Home 2930 NW 7TH TER
GAINESVILLE, FL, US
32609-2923
+1 352 379-3216

Email ronan@ufl.edu
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:23 am | #

Robert,

I neglected to add that Audrey attends a public school...

but then most regulars probably know that.

My daughter attends a private school, which means no ROTC, etc., etc. (it's a church related school; so they don't even feel compelled to put a flag on prominent display).

But the choir director always works in one schmaltzy, rah-rah, "patriotic" song about America. Something along the lines of country music schmaltzy (and if I knew any country music artists, I'd give you a name as an example).

Most of the music is beautiful, especially at Christmas. But he can never leave out this schmaltzy stuff. And that's bad enough, for me (since it's a private school, you can imagine how many "progressives" like me are in the audience...).

But what you described....ick. Time for some complaining, IMHO.
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:23 am | #

OT, but not really, since it's an open thread.

Does anyone here remember back about 2 years +/- when there was an effort to insert the Head of the dept of Homeland Security into the Presidential line of secession ahead of the ranking congressperson? Did they pull it off?

Is Kerik the kinda guy that Bush saw as capable of running the country? OK, that ones kinda rhetorical.
.
Aaron in NM | 12.17.04 - 10:24 am | #

Woo. Utopia. Rah, rah, rah.

Vicki did they really jingo-up a damm Christmas pageant like that? How depressing. What did your daughter and her friends think? Did they have a clue that they were being brainwashed?
nur al cubicle | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:24 am | #

Let's hear if for the DC council standing up against the corporate pigs feeding at the public trough.
AB^3 | 12.17.04 - 10:24 am | #

Good reads:

Evildoers, here we come
Comment by Pepe Escobar

"Far more than the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, the defeat of the mullahcracy and the triumph of freedom in Tehran would be a truly historic event."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-conservative and member of the American Enterprise Institute, June 2003...

http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_...t/ FL17Ak01.html

AND

Neo-cons on the road to Damascus
By Jim Lobe

http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_...t/ FL18Ak02.html
dieselcreek | 12.17.04 - 10:25 am | #

So, we have a new Osama bin Filmin' tape out now! Will it disrupt the finer points of the Kerik fiasco which illustrate the carelessness and incompetence of ShrubCo? Stay Tuned.
Brash | 12.17.04 - 10:25 am | #

But hey, he's probably a bit shell shocked that someone would confront him rather than beg him to record an outoging message like watertiger.

This guy's funny -- and so pleased with himself.

Please, let's all just sit back and leave the posting to the strongman, who doesn't like the host, doesn't like the other guests and is having a very difficult day because these people whom he doesn't like won't discuss what he wants to discuss, when he wants to discuss it.

Why do folks like to hang out with people they don't like?
monica_nyc | 12.17.04 - 10:26 am | #

Vicki Stein - Dont' blame you for being creeped out by that. You really need to let the school know that you were very unhappy with the display of militarism and "support for Bush." This is getting totally out of hand.
Tena | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:27 am | #

UBH = Ultra BungHole.
Duncan Idaho | 12.17.04 - 10:27 am | #

bigvic,

Considering that I live in an urban area, about one mile from the heart of downtown Grand Rapids, and that the school is an urban school, I was surprised at the number of people who actually went along with the whole thing. They clapped and cheered at the references to "Support our troops and the president."

The only two people who left before God Bless America were the other "swim" parent and me.

I have to say that I found comfort in learning that he is very politically active ~ I never knew that about him, after all of the time that we've spent at meets, etc. He and his girlfriend went door to door for months before the election working for Kerry. He also told me that he was escorting people to the polls all day on election day ~ the last person he picked up was at 7:45 pm ~ the guy was drunk, apparently, but was registered and wanted to vote. He told me he was so sick about the election he was bowing out of political activism for a while.

Anyway, to answer your question, I was surprised at the blind response of most people in the audience. Although this area is very conservative and votes solidly Republican, Grand Rapids "proper" leans Democratic.

I think that we are going to get screwed by the masses of people who are unaware of what is going on in the world. That's the sad part.

I've been tossing around the idea of starting a pr firm to get the word out on legitimate Democratic issues. People need to know.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 10:28 am | #

rorschach - Ooooh, you have a two-headed cat - neat!
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:28 am | #

I'm glad that I'll be away from this blog most of the day - it looks like the whiny, incoherent trolls will be out in force.

.
spork_incident | 12.17.04 - 10:28 am | #

test
monica_nyc | 12.17.04 - 10:30 am | #

Too early in the morning for trolls. Much prefer boobies. Thanks, wÒÓ†.

Vicki -- that is some messed-up stuff. What the hell is it with people these days? I thought the idea of fighting a war -- even one we're not supposed to be in -- was to resume peace.
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:30 am | #

The Army National Guard has announced that it's fallen 30% short of its recruiting goal in recent months and will triple retention bonuses to $15,000. The Guard needs $20 billion to replace equipment destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan. "Otherwise, the Guard will be broken and not ready for the next time it's needed," he said. The National Guard and reserve troops contribute 40% of the GIs in Iraq.

Stories such as these are warning bells of conscription and the army's strain, both physically and fiscally serve to validate calls for more troops. The Guard's inability to meet its recruitment goals is a consequence of the growing public outrage over the Iraqi war. The shortage of armor, seriously reported only in the last couple of weeks but well known about throughout the war, also keeps recruits away. The indefinite occupation is also daunting not just for potential soldiers but for all Americans. And with no end in sight, and the ever-increasing insurgency, Americans must ask themselves if this is a war they could still win.

more: www.politicalthought.net
Igor | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:31 am | #

I should point out that even though you have the right to free speech, you probably shouldn't use that right to refer to the Marines serving in Fallujah as "cowards."

Why? Wouldn't it be braver to defy Bush than kill innocents?

I complained because I was banned for no good reason. I think this makes 5 times today.

People said it wasn't true, it was computer problems, Haloscan must be acting up...

None of which was true as Duncan readily admitted, even if he couched it in some bullshit excuse.

So the fact remains for lurkers and usuals to see: Duncan is just as eager to censor as the right wing media.

Unlike the groupies and sycophants that Duncan's delicate disposition has become accustomed to, I have a spine and a brain and use both of them simultaneously.

These asskissers will lie and bully to defend Duncan, just like the Bush crew does for Dubya...

and you people think BUSH has a cult of personality?

Puhleeze.
UBH | 12.17.04 - 10:33 am | #

Morning, all. Man, HaloScan is just not working today.

Vicki, that is some messed-up shtuff. When did the point of fighting a war cease to be resuming peace?
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:33 am | #

Vickie:
What's going on there was well understood by Hermann Goering, Josef Goebbels, and Leni Rieffenstahl. It was a miniature version of a Nuremberg Rally for Das VOLK, which is being repeated in schools and at assemblies all over the country this season, and for the same reasons.

Very sick, jingoistic shit. I never stand for the pledge anymore. I never cover my heart when they play the anthem anymore. I don't go to live sports events anymore because they have all become paeans to militaristic adventurism and jingoistic exceptionalism...

Complain, loudly and often; cuz your kid probably can't, without risk of serious reaction. Ask the choir director if he would have countenanced any display which provided a counterbalance to HIS politics? Write down his reply...take it to the school board...
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 10:33 am | #

Cheney HaloScan. Cheney it up its stupid Santorum.
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:34 am | #

RMJ,

Gee, thanks for the unsolicted attack! UBH is not Da Trufe. I am Da Trufe.

But I am perplexed. You are a man of the cloth. A preacher and a teacher. And it is the holidays! Why, in your own angry god's name, (the god of Abraham as you put it) would you, without any prompting, personally attack me?

I will not argue, perhaps I do have a limited range, WTHDIK, (what the hell do I know), but to have a preacher attack me, well, seems unseemly.

You know exactly how I feel about organized religion, and those who would judge me from their false pulpit. But, again, it's Chrismahanakwanzukuh, so I'll refrain from calling you a terrorist drug dealer for a day. (Paine and Marx)

To assist in your own blog's questions, it's seems that the meaning of the word Christmas has been lost.

Christmas stands for Christ's Mass.

Held on January sixth, the philosopher Rabbi's actual birthday.
Constantine moved it to Dec 25, the traditional date for the Saturnalia, the celebration of the Roman Winter Solstice. The solstice was celebrated with gift giving, feasts, mistletoe, the whole deal. Constantine, being the real wise man, (the three wise men in Nativity scenes are myth, the bible says they showed up no less than three months later.) co-opted the Pagan holiday for his Bishop buddies.

I am not sure how long a mass takes, but Christmas, technicall, is simply a reference to that litugical event.

For me, Christmas is a spirit. A time when humans lay down there differences, and focus on the good thing, love. I ain't relgious, but follow most of the Decalogue anyway.
And I respect Jesus as the prophet of peace, a man who tried to get a New Covenant, away from the angry old God of the Old Testament. But he failed in a sense, as the old and new were cobbled together, giving man a good 1500 years of dark ages before MArtin Luther actaully read one of Gutneberg's bibles and declared the end of the backwaters of Theocracy.

Christmas is not about gifts, or shopping, or trees, or lights, or Christ for that matter. It's a spirit. The spirit of love. At least to me that is!

Happy Noel! (whatever that means!)

Da Tufe is Rob is Reality Base One is Otto the Idiot is Mapplethorpe's Cross.

You are all my God!
Only you can give me love.
rob | 12.17.04 - 10:35 am | #

Sensoring the right wing here? So what? This is not a major news outlet. It's a forum for liberals.

.
dieselcreek | 12.17.04 - 10:35 am | #

Good morning. Bush is still a loser. Hooray for us for not being losers!
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:36 am | #

So the fact remains for lurkers and usuals to see: Duncan is just as eager to censor as the right wing media.

Look, Duncan won't ban you for posting comments that are contrary to his opinions, or liberal thought. But he will ban you for being full of shit. Which you are, near as I can tell. And you're tedious and boring. Post something substantial. Take a liberal idea to task in an intelligent, well outlined, thoughtful way. We'll listen. But quit your whining. It's unbecoming (and I'm being kind).
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 10:36 am | #

Bye-bye Francis! Get those Comix analysed and make sure you get the tests graded!
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:37 am | #

Where's the "Reality-Based Community" tag? Has Bizarro World actually won out? OMG....

Is there a link to explain guy on Soc Sec Wall of Shame? Haven't read everything, every comment, but is there an article? Assume he's supporting BushCo's stealth destruction of SS?

Thnx.
Jawbone | 12.17.04 - 10:37 am | #

check out the kentucky democrat!
KYDem | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:37 am | #

I wonder in the abstract: How likely is it that trolls are also the ones who complain about the location of free concert tickets, piss all over the bathrooms and don't flush, and start fights in the stands over a perceived slight or a spilled beer?

Because it certainly seems that we have a percentage of them who apparently, as children, liked shitting in other kids' sandboxes and then mocked them for being angry about it.
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:37 am | #

So the fact remains for lurkers and usuals to see: Duncan is just as eager to censor as the right wing media.

Bit of a stretch, strongman, but please do keep reaching.

What conclusion next should be drawn? That folks should stop visiting Mister Smith's site because he is the equivalent of the media he criticizes? Is that the point, after all?
monica_nyc | 12.17.04 - 10:38 am | #

Duncan Idaho apparently read Dune by Frank Herbert. It bugs me when politically ignorant people like the same authors I like.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:38 am | #

rorschach - Ooooh, you have a two-headed cat - neat!

Heh. I hadn't quite looked at the picture in that way, but I see what you mean!

(UBH is so sexy, by the way.)
rorschach | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:38 am | #

Totally OT, but:

Any Star Wars geeks here? If so,
what about that Triumph of the Will
homage at the end of episode four?

Did Lucas actually understand what
he was doing?

Discuss.
steve simels | 12.17.04 - 10:40 am | #

Konopelli, Tena, et al,

I plan to complain to the choir director, and the principal. Enough is enough.

My daughter is up for the lead in the musical this year. I don't want to jeopardize her chances. In some ways, I feel like if I say too much (and I can be overly opinionated on these issues), she'll be blacklisted a la McCarthyism.

Nonetheless, bullshit is bullshit. Gentle but forceful does it.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 10:40 am | #

Filkertom, your analysis of the likely childhood behavior is spot on. These were the children that shat in other kid's sand boxes.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:40 am | #

Mommy, Mommy! Nobody pays attention to me! My myopic stupor of Id causes me to whine 'n whine 'n whine. Pay attention to ME!!!!! HELP!!!! Oooooooh, that's it,,,,uhhh yeah...Mommy!
UBH | 12.17.04 - 10:40 am | #

Next time you get angry about the Bush crew trying to silence dissent... remember that Duncan wants their power so he can silence others just like they do.

Yes, the powerful reach of a blogger is the equivalent of the powerful reach of a preznit* of the United States.
monica_nyc | 12.17.04 - 10:40 am | #

I love you to UBH.
dieselcreek | 12.17.04 - 10:41 am | #

I SAID I have a new release out! Damn you people-
Osama | 12.17.04 - 10:41 am | #

VS -- What does your daughter think about mom contacting the princiPAL?
Prince O'Peas | 12.17.04 - 10:43 am | #

VisPol -- thanks. It's just sad, innit?

steve -- I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Lucas was going for. He is, after all, talking about the rise of an empire whose warriors are one "perfect" genetic type. I just wish he had the better storytelling chops he had in the 70s, or at least Lawrance Kazdan's phone number.
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:43 am | #

Osama, you're old news now. We want Zarqauwi now. You see, although he is from Jordan, he is actually a Syrian agent. So we must invade Syria.

.
dieselcreek | 12.17.04 - 10:43 am | #

Filkertom, nice blog entry on your blog, BTW. The bit about the Bushies unconcious acknowledgement of guilt and frontier justice.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:43 am | #

Vicki,

It's official. I am going to vomit.

I was surprised at the number of people who actually went along with the whole thing. They clapped and cheered at the references to "Support our troops and the president."

Since military recruits are down by 30% or more, maybe should ask the choir director and friends when they are gonna sign up for their $15,000 bonus. Oy fucking Vey.
bigvic | 12.17.04 - 10:46 am | #

Filkertom, nice blog entry on your blog, BTW. The bit about the Bushies unconcious acknowledgement of guilt and frontier justice.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:46 am | #

VisPol -- again, thanks. I think it's more and more obvious. They know they're doing the wrong thing, time and again, because they keep trying to adapt, to make it work, to make it better, rather than admitting a mistake and correcting it, time and again.
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:46 am | #

It seems that these Bush people are really not into self-development, or else they wouldn't be complete assholes all the time. If they had better self-control, maybe they'd be better at not broadcasting their guilt.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:48 am | #

Unlike the groupies and sycophants that Duncan's delicate disposition has become accustomed to, I have a spine and a brain and use both of them simultaneously.

Don't be stupid. It's just annoying and petty.

And Rob, Jeffers wasn't attacking you, he was just making an observation. One that's perfectly obvious.
four legs good | 12.17.04 - 10:49 am | #

sorry for the double post. I'm feeling optimistic about a complete Bush administration meltdown before his second term ends.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:50 am | #

vicki, the support the military aspect of what you describe, while a bit jingoish for my tastes, doesn't sound too bad, but it's the "support the troops AND president bush" stuff which is fucked.
Atrios | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:51 am | #

Simels,

I live dfor Star Wars. What was that reference to? please explain. thanks.

And to an earlier point:

"Anger is the most impotent of passions. It effects nothing it goes about, and hurts the one who is possessed by it more than the one against whom it is directed."

Kar-el Sandburg

Fight with passion, but do it intelligently. Confront, but do it intelligently, lest ye energize the bad men.
rob | 12.17.04 - 10:52 am | #

Prince,

I'm not sure...I'll have to ask her.

As the adage goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and with the exception of my carnal desires, my daughter is pretty much a mirror image of me.

To be frank, she hasn't been happy with the teacher this year ~ doesn't think he's focused on the right things.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 10:53 am | #

UBH = Ultra Big Horsesass
Duncan Idaho | 12.17.04 - 10:53 am | #

filkertom:
I'm not so sure. First time I saw
Star Wars, I thought the ending was
a brilliant comment on the fascism
inherent in some fairy tales.
Then I realized Lucas just liked the
imagery -- he had no idea what it
meant.
As witness the disgusting racial
stereotypes in the other chapters,
particularly Phantom Menace.
Lucas isn't a racist == he just thinks
the stereotypes are cute movie
references.

IMHO.
steve simels | 12.17.04 - 10:54 am | #

vicki stein- it has always bothered me that rotc is even allowed in school being promoted as a career of sorts. why are not other vocations invited to have a program then - how about the shortage of catholic priests in u.s.? why not invite them in? but in regards to what you were saying with tone of concert, i keep thinking how people must have felt during the 30's. everywhere.
waiting | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:57 am | #

Wait a minute, steve -- and this is a Lucas problem as well -- are we talking fourth film, first film, i.e. Phantom Menace, or fourth film, chapter four, i.e., the original, A New Hope?
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:57 am | #

Unlike the groupies and sycophants that Duncan's delicate disposition has become accustomed to, I have a spine and a brain and use both of them simultaneously

Ah, I see the Comic Book Guy is here.

See my homepage for Friday Phlegmblogging.
Thersites | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:58 am | #

Speaking of racial stereotypes, some folks felt a bit strange about the Orcs in LOTR.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:59 am | #

Morford/SF Gate, on the proposed 'new' Bay Bridge - but somehow it seems to encapsulate Vicki's confrontation and the rest....

"Screw it. Let them build the Slab. It's too late, anyway. It will be our own private joke. It will be our memento of a dreary and war-torn time. Tourists will look at it and skip the photo. We will look at it and go, oh yeah, that was from a time when San Francisco and California and the nation as a whole were all mired neck deep in war and gluttony and bitter divisiveness and fiscal abuse, and no one seemed to give a damn and if you did you were considered a traitor.

And the City was broke largely because the state was broke and the state was broke largely because the wildly irresponsible and reckless BushCo imbeciles ran us all into the goddamn fiscal ground and gutted the value of the dollar and put our country a trillion dollars in debt, and they just laughed like drunk hyenas the whole time as they cashed in their oil portfolios and mapped out bombing routes in Iran.

It will be our soulless and generic little landmark. It will stand for decades to come and we will say, sure it's ugly. Sure it's a giant concrete slab. Sure it's graceless and uninspired and brutish and an architectural embarrassment and sure it is, perhaps more than anything else, one massive and rather humiliating missed opportunity.

Hey, that's America in a nutshell, sweetheart. That's the Bush era, right there. You want grace and beauty and dreams all coupled with soaring notions of hope and progress? Move to France, hippie. Screw it. Let them build the Slab. It's too late, anyway. It will be our own private joke. It will be our memento of a dreary and war-torn time. Tourists will look at it and skip the photo. We will look at it and go, oh yeah, that was from a time when San Francisco and California and the nation as a whole were all mired neck deep in war and gluttony and bitter divisiveness and fiscal abuse, and no one seemed to give a damn and if you did you were considered a traitor.

And the City was broke largely because the state was broke and the state was broke largely because the wildly irresponsible and reckless BushCo imbeciles ran us all into the goddamn fiscal ground and gutted the value of the dollar and put our country a trillion dollars in debt, and they just laughed like drunk hyenas the whole time as they cashed in their oil portfolios and mapped out bombing routes in Iran.

It will be our soulless and generic little landmark. It will stand for decades to come and we will say, sure it's ugly. Sure it's a giant concrete slab. Sure it's graceless and uninspired and brutish and an architectural embarrassment and sure it is, perhaps more than anything else, one massive and rather humiliating missed opportunity.

Hey, that's America in a nutshell, sweetheart. That's the Bush era, right there. You want grace and beauty and dreams all coupled with soaring notions of hope and progress? Move to France, h
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 10:59 am | #

Rob:
The ending of the original star wars --
the giving the medals scene -- is
a blatant visual pastiche of the
end of Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph
of the Will.

For whatever its worth.
steve simels | 12.17.04 - 10:59 am | #

Morford/SF Gate,

...notions of hope and progress? Move to France, hippie. "
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:00 am | #

And Rob, Jeffers wasn't attacking you, he was just making an observation. One that's perfectly obvious.

As obvious as the fact that UBH is here, and when "rob" is mentioned in connection with UBH, rob suddenly shows up.

Coincidence? Or is pointing that out yet another "attack"?
Robert M. Jeffers | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:00 am | #

That wasn't a blogwhore, by the way. It was a blog invitation to cuddle, like the warm embrace of grandma on a cold winter's evening, a cup of hot chocolate before you, the house redolent with the odors of fresh-baked cookies and Nana's Canadian Club-breath and incontinence.
Thersites | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:01 am | #

Please stop linking bush and dick. It makes it sound like we are being fucked.
coitus bush | 12.17.04 - 11:03 am | #

A New Hope.

You know, the good one.
steve simels | 12.17.04 - 11:05 am | #

GWPDA ~

Morford is great. I'm on his mailing list.

My daughter would love to move to Europe ~ I sent her there during the Summer of 2003, and she loved it.

Best money I ever spent in my life.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 11:05 am | #

I'm being neglected, I'll say it as often as space here allows me to cram

My writing is deep and insightful in spite of its curious resemblance to spam

You say that I'm whiny and hammy (and that this is unfair to both wine and ham)

Well it's dreadfully painfully obvious to me that you simply don't know Who I Am!
fourmorewars | 12.17.04 - 11:05 am | #

Speaking of racial stereotypes, some folks felt a bit strange about the Orcs in LOTR.

Wasn't so much the Orcs but the Swarthy Men. In this the films were actually being pretty faithful to Tolkien's text, which really does transpose racial and imperial cultural structures into its imaginary world.

Not to say the films weren't fun. But that stuff is there (even with the orcs, btw).
Thersites | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:06 am | #

"I'm feeling optimistic about a complete Bush administration meltdown before his second term ends."

Vizzy,

Forget about it. Bush is going out on a White Horsey.
why? his expectations are rock bottom low. Any success will be like a pent up wave, covering all his ridiculousness.

1. Peace in the Middle East
Afghan is won (Karzai is focuing on Poppy produciton now)
Iraq will emerge a success, and all the moaning now will make it that much easier to look relatively good now.
A Palestinian state. See Sharons comments of Google News as enumerated way above thread.

This should all occur in 2005. And then there will be jobs created up the wazoo, a direct result of the peace dividend. COffers will fill, deficits will fade, and an era of good feeling will pervade the country.
This is all good. The only issue here is that Bush will get the credit!

So, careful what you are optimistic for. YOu want a Bush meltdown, I see clear writing on the wall that says otherwise. But hoping for the meltdown is counterproductive in a hundred ways.

"If America forgets where she came from, if the people lose sight of what brought them along, if she listens to the deniers and mockers, then will begin the rot and dissolution."

Kar-el Sandburg-

Simply, it's best not to be a mocker and denier at this point. Cuz PITME is coming!

And Four Legs Good, you say it's obviuos that I have "limited range."

Can you explain what that means and why you are in a position to judge others?

That being said, Bush is an idiot. Nothing can change that.
rob | 12.17.04 - 11:07 am | #

An Intelligence Failure of a Different Sort

President George W. Bush and Office of Management and Budget Director Joshua Bolton (C) talk to conferees, above a misspelled sign, at the White House Conference on the Economy in Washington, December 16, 2004. The White House went all out to showcase the advantages of U.S. President George W. Bush's ambitious financial agenda this week, but in the end the 'challenges' proved too much. The word 'challenges' -- a main theme of a two-day White House economic conference that ended on Thursday -- was misspelled on a large television monitor that stood in front of Bush during a panel discussion.
(REUTERS/Reuters TV)

Link to the story
hp | 12.17.04 - 11:07 am | #

Vicki Stein - let me recommend Montreal as an alternative. The cheaper Europe, with loonies!
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:07 am | #

bwa ha ha. Yeah, steve, I see what you mean. I don't know what symbolism he intends (and I haven't listened to the commentary on my DVD yet), but it sure the hell looks like Riefenstahl.
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:08 am | #

Vicki,
Send your daughter to Amsterdam on Queensday(April 30th). That's a great day to be in a great city.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:08 am | #

UBH = Unhinged Bitchy Herbert*

*The Star Trek space hippie Herbert, not the author of Dune Herbert.
Duncan Idaho | 12.17.04 - 11:09 am | #

"Iraq will emerge a success, and all the moaning now will make it that much easier to look relatively good now."

I don't think so. Bush has too much bad karma and blood on his hands for anything legitimate to emerge from his raping and pillaging of Iraq.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:11 am | #

4mw -- good one!
filkertom | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:11 am | #

Hey! I think I know now what they mean by haloscan eating up comments. Now I saw it, now I didn't.

Forgive me if this is a double posting, but my first seems to have disappeared...and I worked on it for a good five minutes, so here it is again...

(ahem)

I'm being neglected, I'll say it as often as space here allows me to cram

My writing is deep and insightful in spite of its curious resemblance to spam

You say that I'm whiny and hammy (and that that is unfair to both wine and ham)

Well it's dreadfully painfully obvious to me that you simply don't know Who I Am!
fourmorewars | 12.17.04 - 11:12 am | #

Cauchemar. It's a ****ing cauchemar, that's what it is. It's happened to me before, but mostly when I was young (a opposed to being 64). I fully realize that I am in my bed having a horrendous dream which is scaring the beejeebus out of me, but at the same time there is the awareness that it's just a very bad dream. 'This cannot be happening, G.Ralph, all you have to do is wake up.' And so that's all I've got to do now. If I concentrate very hard and ignore these silly Guernica images dancing around the room, I will wake up. I will wake up. The president just put Kerik on the Supr ... I will wake up. The president is wearing a crown. I will wake up.

I
Gonna Ralph | 12.17.04 - 11:12 am | #

Thank you, filkertom...crap! Needless 2nd posting, but honest to God, the 1st one disappeared for a minute.
fourmorewars | 12.17.04 - 11:15 am | #

"This should all occur in 2005. And then there will be jobs created up the wazoo, a direct result of the peace dividend. COffers will fill, deficits will fade, and an era of good feeling will pervade the country.
This is all good. The only issue here is that Bush will get the credit!"

Rob, you're wildly optimistic. Especially about the "era of good feeling will pervade the country". No sir, that will never happen after the way the liberals have been transgressed upon by the right-wing morons. We have to kick their asses to China before any wave of good feeling can occur.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:15 am | #

If Iraq is in any way a "success" for Bush, it will only be because when he pulls out the troops (other than those guarding the oil) and the country sinks into civil war, the US media won't report it. Not that most Americans would care, anyway.

I predict Bush will be very successful in making old people subsist on cat food in retirement, however.
Jennifer | 12.17.04 - 11:16 am | #

Rob, you're wildly optimistic.

Ummm, beyond that, he's wildly nuts, delusionally annoying.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 11:18 am | #

Okay, let me see if I'm getting it.

Bernie kerik was police commissioner
of NYC and also had mob ties.

Is this a first?
steve simels | 12.17.04 - 11:18 am | #

China is industrializing and is about to start competing with the US for oil. The prospectors haven't found much new oil in the ground and we're scheduled to hit peak oil production in the next 10 or 20 years, right as China starts getting really thirsty for it. Oil prices are going up, up, up. 5 dollars a gallon in the next 10 yrs. That drives food prices way up too.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:19 am | #

Visual - that's also a short explanation of why the insane PNAC desire to invade Iran next would signal the beginning of WWIII.
Jennifer | 12.17.04 - 11:21 am | #

Something occurred to me about Bill O'Reilly - it is just another example of Republicans being able to make a reality in which their ideology is true.

The classic example is the P.J. O'Rourke observation about Republicans believing government is bad and then getting elected a proving it: Republicans have an ideology that government is fundamentally a flawed way of doing things, and they can make their ideology reality (and get further votes) by being spectacularly incompetent in office.

What O'Reilly is doing is the same trick? Rethugs believe in a strong Israel as do many Jews 'cause many Jews fear that our "welcome" in the Gentile world might wear out and but for Israel to take us in, we are only two steps away from another holocaust. So the Rethug policy is "good cop"/"bad cop" ... the paleocon wing stirs up anti-Semitism and the neo-con wing says - "that's why Jews haveta vote Rethug - 'cause the Rethugs will support an expansionist enough Israel to hold the Jews when the welcome wears out in the U.S.".

How do we fight this twisted reality-conforming ideology?

And btw - isn't this general approach of the Rethugs, making reality match their ideology, a sign of fascism?
DAS | 12.17.04 - 11:21 am | #

Anent the daily trool-squabble:

I thought the pieces on Gary Webb were important, personally; and I was happy to have them to consider.

The problem was ????? What?????

I guess i musta missed it...

Ah well, as a former banishee (without a variety of IPAs back upon which to fall), all I can say is, Suck it up, bubba...
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 11:21 am | #

RMJ,

Now that you have called me out twice, I must drop my holiday visage and point out that you are, as a man of the cloth are by nature, to borrow from Freud, suffering from an illusion. As well as pushing the "opiate of the masses," which makes you a drug dealer on my block. The fact that "organized religion was an invention of man to terrorize and enslave man" (T. Paine paraphrase) has earned you the appellation of "terrorist" on my block as well. To add to your resume, might I know call you "pro-slavery" too. (once again reverting to a founding father's definition.

And, not that your capable of being wrong, representing the angry old god of Abraham and all, you say I showed up after someone made a reference to me as UBH. "As obvious as the fact that UBH is here, and when "rob" is mentioned in connection with UBH, rob suddenly shows up."

But according to Haloscan, I made my first post at 9:37 am. and the reference you speak of was at 10:14.

So, thy logic hath fallen. Carry on though, keep up your life of lies. You are human though, and I can read between your lines. I can feel your anger. Which means that you, deep within, see Da Trufe. And it scares you doesn't it? You know, somewhere, that your life has been filled with the delusion of religion. And that you have wasted it. All that intellect and scholarly knowledge gone to drug dealing terrorizing and enslaving. Which gives me comfort, knowing that you might be honest with yourself on occasion.
rob | 12.17.04 - 11:25 am | #

Rob, you're wildly optimistic.

Ummm, beyond that, he's wildly nuts, delusionally annoying.
Vicki Stein

He's the blogging equivalent of Dr. Pangloss: "It is proved that things cannot be other than they are, for since everything is made for a purpose, it follows that everything is made for the best purpose."

Put another way, Rob thinks this is the best of all possible worlds;

some of us are afraid he's correct...
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 11:27 am | #

City starts probe
of Kerik

Dept. of Investigation takes its cue from News revelations

BY MAKI BECKER
and RUSS BUETTNER
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/...4p- 225158c.html
dieselcreek | 12.17.04 - 11:28 am | #

Jennifer, oil and imperial strategy account for all the actions of the Neoconfederates. They're not afraid of WWIII, they got their ROI from WWII. The Elkhorn Manifesto is an eye opener.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:28 am | #

The classic example is the P.J. O'Rourke observation about Republicans believing government is bad and then getting elected a proving it:

I think that's a line he cribbed from Molly Ivins...
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 11:29 am | #

Bye bye. Gotta take care of some business.
Visual Politics | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 11:31 am | #

Viz,

You nailed it. I am wildly optimistic. A genetic flaw.

But I am just calling it like I see it. You have to admit that all things are cyclical, and people are willing to forgive and forget. And given that we are on a down cycle, what's next?

And no RMJ, it's not the End Of Days.

Jesus told his disciples that the Apocolypse would occur during their lifetimes. Which gave his message a sense of urgency no doubt, A marketable one! When he did not return from Heaven at the 70Ad razing of the second temple though, great disappointment was had by the Jews, who were subsequently banned from Jerusalem for hundreds of years.

Just enough time fort the Gentiles to hijack his message of peace in the form of the Universal Church. "Katolikos" (catholic) being the Greek word for Universal.

And Konopolywog is right, why is that UBH guy all worked up. His post about gary whomever seemed kinda liberal?
rob | 12.17.04 - 11:36 am | #

Kono,

Ah, thanks for the Tantric lead in.

"at any given time, or place, all is appropriate and complete."

Go Hanuman!

RMJ,

who do think would win a greco roman style wrestling match between your god of Abraham and Hanuman?

Or how about the NFL bears versus your god?

Or how about, 11 mini-Ditkas versus YHWH?
rob | 12.17.04 - 11:39 am | #

Visual Politics:
Re China--you're right.
India, too, will pose problems of similar magnitude.

The oil production curve (cf, Hubbert) is going to peak this year or next, worldwide, iirc..(if idrc, sorry...NB the date,/a>)...

An acquaintance cynically recommends now that we should all abandon any efforts to conserve petroleum-based fuels and other products, and instead, over-consume, in order to deplet them sooner, thereby forcing the relevant industries to bring alternaives on-line sooner...

That has disadvantages, of course, in exascerbating the rapidity and extent of the climate changes human activity has engendered (Dude: You just don't liberate all the hydrocarbons the earth has been storing up for the last 4 Billion years in a mere cople of hundred years without come fucking consequences; i mean what the fucking fuck?)...

But it was Keynes who, famously and candidly remarked: In the LONG RUN we'll all be dead...
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 11:40 am | #

curse you, cordless keyboard
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 11:41 am | #

rob, rob?, rob!, Rob. ROB, rob?? rob!!, rob....,ROB!!!
rob...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
bo | 12.17.04 - 11:45 am | #

Rob, your childlike simplicity would be charming, somewhere else...
"Yeah, Jeffers, who do you think would win a fight between a ....ummmm... a great white shark and an ocean-going crocodile....
What about between a rhinoceropus and an elephant??? Or a lion and tiger???
huh huhuh, tha'd be cool... yeah, yeah, that'd be cool...

On your very best days, rob, you seem quaintly endearing...

This isn't one of your best days...
Konopelli | 12.17.04 - 11:46 am | #

Rob = Delusional

The Peace Dividend? What the Fuck are you talking about? So you think PITME by the end of 2005 (Hysterical Delusion) will bring about some sort of Peace Dividend? Even assuming you're right (and I don't) Bush will just fuck that up too. The man has proven that he dosn't give a shit about anybody but the top 1% of this country.

Rob, are you smoking dope? Overdosing on Paxil? You are way to cheerful.
krsaz | 12.17.04 - 11:49 am | #

Speaking of ROTC,
My daughter told me of a presentaton at her school (NYC public HS) she said it was a "cool" Hip Hop, break dance piece performed by a former student, all the kids were pretty impressed, it then was revealed that this 'cool" former student was now in the reserves,
ROTC comin' at ya when you most expect it.
blyspi | 12.17.04 - 11:56 am | #

blyspi ~

I know there's been an uptick in ROTC participation at my daughter's school. She has a very good friend who plans to go to college on a ROTC scholarship and then join the Army.

Of course, this girl was upset with my daughter for not supporting "President Bush."
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 12:04 pm | #

Have the radical Christian clerics Fallwell, Robertson ad nauseum started singing praises to Savior w's plan to totally destroy SS yet?

I imagine a few hundred million more into faith based initiatives will have them singing praises.
coitus bush | 12.17.04 - 12:07 pm | #

Vicki Stein - you just have to make sure your daughter knows that trying to be fashionable isn't the same thing as having style....
GWPDA | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 12:10 pm | #

by Colum Lynch, Washington Post
December 15th, 2004
Pentagon auditors concluded that Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton Co., charged "unsupported" and "overstated costs" in more than $800 million in U.S.-administered projects financed by Iraqi oil revenue, according to a report issued Tuesday by a U.N.-appointed financial oversight board.

YEAH, like we can trust the UN. How dare the UN smear an upstanding AMERICAN patriotic company like Halliburton.

Get the US out of the UN now!!!
coitus bush | 12.17.04 - 12:11 pm | #

Vicki Stein - you just have to make sure your daughter knows that trying to be fashionable isn't the same thing as having style....
GWPDA

She knows, she knows....I'm proud of her, she has a mind of her own and a heart of gold.
Vicki Stein | 12.17.04 - 12:16 pm | #

I am optimistic that the repukes will over reach and melt down ala Nixon.

It appears that a melt down is starting to reach a critical mass- but then again w has seemed to survive more law breaking and destroying this country than all the previous admins put together.
coitus bush | 12.17.04 - 12:17 pm | #

How much you bet that the Christian hustlers like Robertson and Falwell will start private savings account companies for their flocks. Considering how bad fundis tend to be with money, their sheep will get fleeced and then sent to the slaughterhouse. We are probably going into a age of outrageous fraud and deceit in fundiland. Hopefully, the sclm will pay attention.
sekmet | 12.17.04 - 12:25 pm | #

Just one question: What if the candy canes had been pink?

Judge OKs use of Christian-themed candy canes at school party

I have no problem with the candy canes - anyone who does is just silly. The separation of church and state is about GOVERNMENT presenting false, debatable or unproven theories regarding religion and therefore should not be allowed to present material which prosthelitizes (sp? I'm too lazy to find a dicitonary) to students in schools.

Whatever the children make and bring to school, or do in an art project, or write in a school paper is none of the government or any angry atheist, Christian, Jewish parents' business, I say. Government property ought to allow free expression of ideas - I'm all for that - the problem comes when government workers push religious views - not the general public.

Regardless, I still think it's funny Fox News makes such a big deal out of this stuff.

And have you ever noticed that when a conservative complains about their freedom of religion being attacked, they never explain it with the complexity and constitutional nuance that a liberal does when fighting for the same thing?
Joshua Daniel Davis | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 12:27 pm | #

And I apologize for not capitalizing Atheist. I've tried to remember to start doing that. It's only fair.
Joshua Daniel Davis | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 12:29 pm | #

How y'all been? I'm dipping my toe in the waters of politics after staying away in the interest of my post-election mental health.

I have missed all you Atrioids. Hope everyone is well.
wtfwjd? | 12.17.04 - 12:38 pm | #

Hardly anyone is for Bush in NYC
but unfortunately joining the military is way too common in low income neighborhoods .
blyspi | 12.17.04 - 12:40 pm | #

I wonder when Fox News will start to scold Rupert Murdoch for being an adulterer? If they suddenly are pushing Christinity big time, they need to clean their own house.
sekmet | 12.17.04 - 12:40 pm | #

And given that we are on a down cycle, what's next?

Um, that someone else is going to be on an upswing?

Honestly, with wages flat or declining for a generation, a shift of the tax-burden onto the middle class, a failure to invest in education and infrastructure, and now an Argentine-style raid on Social Security, it's not that I expect an End of Days, it's that I see no basis for the continuation of American power and our standard of living.

What the hell will we base it on if those in positions of authority are continually chipping away at the foundation?
.
Grand Moff Texan | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 12:43 pm | #

Why are the wingnuts so interested in how the Democratic Party repair itself after the election "debacle". (Oh, but for 100,000 votes in Ohio...whatever).

The very definition of pomposity chimes in today: Victor David Hanson in National Review, about what the the Democrats need to do "to regain credibility."

If we're so marginalized, so useless, so out of touch, what da fuck do you care? Take Interpol's advice: "If you're life is such a big joke/Why should I care?"

Here, we have an incumbent War President (TM), with an economy that, while not soaring, ain't the Great Depression either, three years after the greatest tragedy to befall America, a tragedy that brought all Americans together for at least a little while...and the fucking guy barely won an election.

It is the Republicans who are out of touch with most Americans; America is is in the midst of a thirty-year drift towards the left (Good line from liberality.org, regarding Moore with Carter at the DNC: "imagine if, during Chicago 1968, Abbie Hoffman were a guest of honor of Harry Truman.")
Save for an Act of God, Republicans couldn't even sniff national office.

My question: How do the Republicans regain credibility?
The_Truth | 12.17.04 - 12:44 pm | #

wtf, I'd say the water's on the chilly side and not for the faint of heart.
bo | 12.17.04 - 12:45 pm | #

I wonder when Fox News will start to scold Rupert Murdoch for being an adulterer?

When they chide Limbaugh for being a draft-dodging, money-laundering, drug-addicted, serial divorcee and former welfare recipient?

When they expose the phony blue-collar poseurship of the ivy-league educated, multi-millionaire O'Reilly and his white collar background?

When they do a series on the red states as welfare states with the highest rates of bastardy, divorce and murder?

When hell freezes over?

Face it, folks: those assholes need each other.
.
Grand Moff Texan | Homepage | 12.17.04 - 12:47 pm | #

rob you are so upbeat, it's such a treat to have your optimism here...
krsaz | 12.17.04 - 12:51 pm | #

"I wonder when Fox News will start to scold Rupert Murdoch for being an adulterer? If they suddenly are pushing Christinity big time, they need to clean their own house."

I am coming late into the thread, being at work, so I have no idea what generated that.

However, it becomes increasingly obvious that the general concept of being a Christian is very skewed. I can make the same observation about press and media in terms of what they are supposed to be.

We keep arguing the old views of what something is, when the people that send us on a complete tilt may have a completely different understanding.

Objective and insightful news reporting is not the job as they see it. And some Christians see it as more a club than a way of life. I suspect technically, if I simply declare myself a Christian, regardless of my belief and morality, I would immediately be acceptable.

Note these are generalistic statements and I recognize there are significant numbers of people who do not match the above behavior. But there are enough to make it a trend.
EkCenTriK | 12.17.04 - 12:56 pm | #

Thanks for the warning bo. I think I actually came pretty close to an actual nervous breakdown (no joke) after the 2000 election. But I was living in a red state then, and am now in darkblueville. But turning on the teevee or reading the news still makes me despondent.

I just don't understand how our country could put itself in the position we are in, and then, with eyes wide open, say we want more of the same.

I don't think I'm ready to let myself think about this stuff yet. It is truly despairing!
wtfwjd? | 12.17.04 - 12:56 pm | #

check out
michaelmoore.com

haha
looks like republicans can't spell
blyspi | 12.17.04 - 12:56 pm | #

Can somebody explain to me what the Social Security Hall of Shame is? Why is Allen Boyd currently on it?
Monabona | 12.17.04 - 12:57 pm | #

still in denial here. just beginning to realize that my head really hurts.
bo | 12.17.04 - 1:04 pm | #

btw,there is a more current thread running, if you're interested.
bo | 12.17.04 - 1:06 pm | #

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