I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Good griefl.
Good griefl.
'ripped untimely from her mothers' womb,' wot?
Good thing the fundies don't take their omens and portents from Shakespeare.
Lay on, Macduff.
'ripped untimely from her mothers' womb,' wot?
Good thing the fundies don't take their omens and portents from Shakespeare.
Lay on, Macduff.
...she had unexpectedly given birth...
I hate when that happens.
...she had unexpectedly given birth...
I hate when that happens.
Evidently this has been one in a series of similar assaults - where? Well you know where.... "Several pregnant women have been killed in recent years by attackers who then removed their fetuses, in some cases to pass the children off as their own.
In one of the most recent cases, a 21-year-old woman was shot to death in Oklahoma in December 2003, allegedly by another woman who pretended the 6-month-old fetus was her child. The fetus died. The woman accused in the case was found incompetent to stand trial and is undergoing treatment in a mental hospital. "
Can't have family values without a family, right? Or at least not without the "right" kind of family.
Evidently this has been one in a series of similar assaults - where? Well you know where.... "Several pregnant women have been killed in recent years by attackers who then removed their fetuses, in some cases to pass the children off as their own.
In one of the most recent cases, a 21-year-old woman was shot to death in Oklahoma in December 2003, allegedly by another woman who pretended the 6-month-old fetus was her child. The fetus died. The woman accused in the case was found incompetent to stand trial and is undergoing treatment in a mental hospital. "
Can't have family values without a family, right? Or at least not without the "right" kind of family.
damn red-state immorality.
i'm sure the facts won't stop the wingnuts from blaming birth control and abortion.
As filkertom wisely opined the other day: "When I want your opinion, I'll gut you and read your entrails..."
damn red-state immorality.
i'm sure the facts won't stop the wingnuts from blaming birth control and abortion.
As filkertom wisely opined the other day: "When I want your opinion, I'll gut you and read your entrails..."
Ah, sweet Culture of Life.
Tragic
Ah, sweet Culture of Life.
Tragic
Montgomery had told her husband that she had unexpectedly given birth.
Oh yeah, right. Sort of like an immaculate conception sort of thing - happens all the time. If her husband believed that bullshit, he's even more fucked in the head than she is. I'll give you 9 to 5 odds that these two are a couple of fundies. Can we please, PLEASE, have all these idiots committed?
Montgomery had told her husband that she had unexpectedly given birth.
Oh yeah, right. Sort of like an immaculate conception sort of thing - happens all the time. If her husband believed that bullshit, he's even more fucked in the head than she is. I'll give you 9 to 5 odds that these two are a couple of fundies. Can we please, PLEASE, have all these idiots committed?
A similar incident happened in Oklahoma last year where a pregnant woman was killed. The fetus was only six months gestation and it died, too.
Yeah, those Red Staters sure value families and children (cough)
A similar incident happened in Oklahoma last year where a pregnant woman was killed. The fetus was only six months gestation and it died, too.
Yeah, those Red Staters sure value families and children (cough)
Well, American, keep on telling women that they can't be "complete" w/o babies and a man. I'm sure that'll work out just great for you any century now.
It's Saturday morning; I'm exhausted; and I'm back at work. Blah.
Well, American, keep on telling women that they can't be "complete" w/o babies and a man. I'm sure that'll work out just great for you any century now.
It's Saturday morning; I'm exhausted; and I'm back at work. Blah.
I wonder if the baby was white?
I wonder if the baby was white?
She told her husband that she had "unexpectedly given birth" ... WTF?????
Hecate ... I'm done! I'm free! (For three weeks.)
She told her husband that she had "unexpectedly given birth" ... WTF?????
Hecate ... I'm done! I'm free! (For three weeks.)
Res Ipsa,
Speak for yourself. 
Res Ipsa,
Speak for yourself.
I bet I could make a fortune in the Heartland selling fetuses that can be grown like Chia Pets.
I bet I could make a fortune in the Heartland selling fetuses that can be grown like Chia Pets.
I bet I could make a fortune in the Heartland selling fetuses that can be grown like Chia Pets.
Or move to China and do the same thing with their nasal cells.
I bet I could make a fortune in the Heartland selling fetuses that can be grown like Chia Pets.
Or move to China and do the same thing with their nasal cells.
Actually, this is the family values story I woke up to today. Wanted to warn Incog that I really wasn't joking about Stringey's parentage.... (the location of this is about, oh, ten or twelve bobcat-leaps down the road from me.)
Mom accused of leaving kids with wild animals
Cougar, bobcats kept at Phoenix home
A Phoenix woman accused of leaving her children alone with a mountain lion and seven other wild animals was arrested on suspicion of felony child abuse and endangerment, authorities said Friday [for] occasionally left her 9-year-old daughter and 7-year-old son unsupervised with the animals, investigators said. [She] admitted keeping a mountain lion, two bobcats and five African servals at her home....
Actually, this is the family values story I woke up to today. Wanted to warn Incog that I really wasn't joking about Stringey's parentage.... (the location of this is about, oh, ten or twelve bobcat-leaps down the road from me.)
Mom accused of leaving kids with wild animals
Cougar, bobcats kept at Phoenix home
A Phoenix woman accused of leaving her children alone with a mountain lion and seven other wild animals was arrested on suspicion of felony child abuse and endangerment, authorities said Friday [for] occasionally left her 9-year-old daughter and 7-year-old son unsupervised with the animals, investigators said. [She] admitted keeping a mountain lion, two bobcats and five African servals at her home....
She: "Clem, ah has unexpekkedly give birf."
He: "Dag, ah hates when that happen."
Sad story. Still going to be giggling about that little hypothetical scene all day, though.
She: "Clem, ah has unexpekkedly give birf."
He: "Dag, ah hates when that happen."
Sad story. Still going to be giggling about that little hypothetical scene all day, though.
Hecate ... Sorry, wasn't trying to rub it in. Just celebrating over here. First time I've slept past 5:00 AM in three months.
Hecate ... Sorry, wasn't trying to rub it in. Just celebrating over here. First time I've slept past 5:00 AM in three months.
Bizarre. Very bizarre.
Bizarre. Very bizarre.
charged with kidnapping resulting in death.
the murder of the mother is secondary.
charged with kidnapping resulting in death.
the murder of the mother is secondary.
Atrios,
That's been going on in my town since Thursday. All the media's been here. Maryville, my town, is the county seat of Nodaway County. Ben Espey is my sheriff.
You know you'd like your town to make CNN, MSNBC, and Fox live simultaneously for, um, something else.
What a sickening crime, huh? I've seen Bobbi Jo Stinnett's picture and she seems very familiar. In my little town (10K) and county (21K), I'm sure I met her at some time.
I will point out, for the record, that the sick woman was from Kansas, not Missouri.
Sigh.
Atrios,
That's been going on in my town since Thursday. All the media's been here. Maryville, my town, is the county seat of Nodaway County. Ben Espey is my sheriff.
You know you'd like your town to make CNN, MSNBC, and Fox live simultaneously for, um, something else.
What a sickening crime, huh? I've seen Bobbi Jo Stinnett's picture and she seems very familiar. In my little town (10K) and county (21K), I'm sure I met her at some time.
I will point out, for the record, that the sick woman was from Kansas, not Missouri.
Sigh.
charged with kidnapping resulting in death.
the murder of the mother is secondary.
n69n | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:27 am | #
I thought they found the baby alive and that the murder charge was for the mother's death.
charged with kidnapping resulting in death.
the murder of the mother is secondary.
n69n | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:27 am | #
I thought they found the baby alive and that the murder charge was for the mother's death.
Yow. This is one of the most unspeakably sick things ever. Talk about insane.
And Bobo is an assclown.
Yow. This is one of the most unspeakably sick things ever. Talk about insane.
And Bobo is an assclown.
Maybe I am just dense,
But I honestly fail to see what this awful story has to do with politics. A woman came unhinged after losing her own unborn baby and killed somebody else in order to get a child. As far as I can see, such a thing might have happened anywhere and involved people of any political stripe. Bobo? Atrios? Is this somehow apropos of a Brooks column that you did not link to? I am confused.
Maybe I am just dense,
But I honestly fail to see what this awful story has to do with politics. A woman came unhinged after losing her own unborn baby and killed somebody else in order to get a child. As far as I can see, such a thing might have happened anywhere and involved people of any political stripe. Bobo? Atrios? Is this somehow apropos of a Brooks column that you did not link to? I am confused.
OT:
Yesterday there was a flurry of activity around whether or not the Dimocrats should oppose Alberto Gonzalez' appointment as the new Bushista AG. Some urged caution, not wanting to 'squander' political capital that might be needed to oppose an egregiously unqualified SC(R)OTUS nominee.
But it occurred to me that that egregiously mal-qualified nominee might actually be Gonzalez himself, and that the WHiteHouse/Bushista junta is using the AG appointment as a stqalking hores. That is, they are counting on Gonzalez' nomination sailing through so that, when his subseuqent nomination for the SC(R)OTUS comes up, they'll be able to rebut criticism with the claim that he (Gonzalez) had already faced scrutingy for the AG post, and should be essentially awarded a free pass onto the HighCourt.
any opinions, yea or nay?
OT:
Yesterday there was a flurry of activity around whether or not the Dimocrats should oppose Alberto Gonzalez' appointment as the new Bushista AG. Some urged caution, not wanting to 'squander' political capital that might be needed to oppose an egregiously unqualified SC(R)OTUS nominee.
But it occurred to me that that egregiously mal-qualified nominee might actually be Gonzalez himself, and that the WHiteHouse/Bushista junta is using the AG appointment as a stqalking hores. That is, they are counting on Gonzalez' nomination sailing through so that, when his subseuqent nomination for the SC(R)OTUS comes up, they'll be able to rebut criticism with the claim that he (Gonzalez) had already faced scrutingy for the AG post, and should be essentially awarded a free pass onto the HighCourt.
any opinions, yea or nay?
"any opinions, yea or nay?"
No opinion. Just fear. Chronic, underlying fear.
"any opinions, yea or nay?"
No opinion. Just fear. Chronic, underlying fear.
SWR - If I read correctly, the killer hasn't been charged with murder.
Because, you know, the fetus is alive.
SWR - If I read correctly, the killer hasn't been charged with murder.
Because, you know, the fetus is alive.
Honest to god, I can't even think of a more gruesome crime than killing a pregnant woman to steal her fetus.
It just boggles the mind to think about the kind of depravity it would take to carry out an act like this.
Honest to god, I can't even think of a more gruesome crime than killing a pregnant woman to steal her fetus.
It just boggles the mind to think about the kind of depravity it would take to carry out an act like this.
But I honestly fail to see what this awful story has to do with politics. A woman came unhinged after losing her own unborn baby and killed somebody else in order to get a child. As far as I can see, such a thing might have happened anywhere and involved people of any political stripe.
The general point is that people in the red states talking about their "moral" superiority to those of us in the blue states don't see what you're saying.
There's a ton of projection. They see themselves as "moral" and us as bad evil immoral commies.
And Brooks is just a shill for that point of view.
But I honestly fail to see what this awful story has to do with politics. A woman came unhinged after losing her own unborn baby and killed somebody else in order to get a child. As far as I can see, such a thing might have happened anywhere and involved people of any political stripe.
The general point is that people in the red states talking about their "moral" superiority to those of us in the blue states don't see what you're saying.
There's a ton of projection. They see themselves as "moral" and us as bad evil immoral commies.
And Brooks is just a shill for that point of view.
Second that chronic fear.
Second that chronic fear.
SWR - If I read correctly, the killer hasn't been charged with murder.
Because, you know, the fetus is alive.
Jennifer | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:34 am | #
Unless the DA is a pure incompetent or an insane wingnut I'm sure he will. Are there any charges at all yet?
SWR - If I read correctly, the killer hasn't been charged with murder.
Because, you know, the fetus is alive.
Jennifer | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:34 am | #
Unless the DA is a pure incompetent or an insane wingnut I'm sure he will. Are there any charges at all yet?
SWR - If I read correctly, the killer hasn't been charged with murder.
Because, you know, the fetus is alive.
Jennifer
Well, who cares about the incubator anyhow?
SWR - If I read correctly, the killer hasn't been charged with murder.
Because, you know, the fetus is alive.
Jennifer
Well, who cares about the incubator anyhow?
Why didn't the Germans stop the holocaust?
ITHACA, N.Y. -- Nearly half of all Americans say the U.S. government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll.
The survey conducted by Cornell University found that Republicans and people who described themselves as highly religious were more apt to support curtailing Muslims' civil liberties than Democrats or people who are less religious.
Researchers also found that respondents who paid more attention to television news were more likely to fear terrorist attacks and support limiting the rights of Muslim Americans.
"It's sad news. It's disturbing news. But it's not unpredictable," said Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society. "The nation is at war, even if it's not a traditional war."
The poll found that 44 percent favored at least some restrictions on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Forty-eight percent said liberties should not be restricted in any way.
The poll showed that 27 percent of respondents supported requiring all Muslim Americans to register where they lived with the federal government. Twenty-two percent favored racial profiling to identify potential terrorist threats. And 29 percent said undercover agents should infiltrate Muslim civic and volunteer organizations to keep tabs on their activities and fundraising.
Cornell student researchers questioned 715 people in the nationwide telephone poll conducted this fall. The margin of sampling error was 3.6 percentage points.
James Shanahan, an associate professor of communications who helped organize the poll, said the results indicate "the need for continued dialogue about issues of civil liberties" in a time of war.
While researchers said they were not surprised by the overall level of support for curtailing civil liberties, they were startled by the correlation with religion and exposure to television news.
"We need to explore why these two very important channels of discourse may nurture fear rather than understanding," Shanahan said.
According to the survey, 37 percent said a terrorist attack in the United States is still likely within the next 12 months. In a similar poll conducted by Cornell in November 2002, that number stood at 90 percent.
Why didn't the Germans stop the holocaust?
ITHACA, N.Y. -- Nearly half of all Americans say the U.S. government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll.
The survey conducted by Cornell University found that Republicans and people who described themselves as highly religious were more apt to support curtailing Muslims' civil liberties than Democrats or people who are less religious.
Researchers also found that respondents who paid more attention to television news were more likely to fear terrorist attacks and support limiting the rights of Muslim Americans.
"It's sad news. It's disturbing news. But it's not unpredictable," said Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society. "The nation is at war, even if it's not a traditional war."
The poll found that 44 percent favored at least some restrictions on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Forty-eight percent said liberties should not be restricted in any way.
The poll showed that 27 percent of respondents supported requiring all Muslim Americans to register where they lived with the federal government. Twenty-two percent favored racial profiling to identify potential terrorist threats. And 29 percent said undercover agents should infiltrate Muslim civic and volunteer organizations to keep tabs on their activities and fundraising.
Cornell student researchers questioned 715 people in the nationwide telephone poll conducted this fall. The margin of sampling error was 3.6 percentage points.
James Shanahan, an associate professor of communications who helped organize the poll, said the results indicate "the need for continued dialogue about issues of civil liberties" in a time of war.
While researchers said they were not surprised by the overall level of support for curtailing civil liberties, they were startled by the correlation with religion and exposure to television news.
"We need to explore why these two very important channels of discourse may nurture fear rather than understanding," Shanahan said.
According to the survey, 37 percent said a terrorist attack in the United States is still likely within the next 12 months. In a similar poll conducted by Cornell in November 2002, that number stood at 90 percent.
Try dropping the www.haloscan.com from the front of that url and you get:
Mom accused of leaving kids with wild animals
Try dropping the www.haloscan.com from the front of that url and you get:
Mom accused of leaving kids with wild animals
Ya think that's bizarre? How about that po' Modesto Fertilizer Salesguy's wife who was kidnapped and murdered two years ago? And then her hubby is railroaded onto Death Row. I guess that roving vanful of Satanists in Modesto doesn't seem so far fetched now, does it? Goddamn kangaroo courts. Goddamn Nancy Grace.
Ya think that's bizarre? How about that po' Modesto Fertilizer Salesguy's wife who was kidnapped and murdered two years ago? And then her hubby is railroaded onto Death Row. I guess that roving vanful of Satanists in Modesto doesn't seem so far fetched now, does it? Goddamn kangaroo courts. Goddamn Nancy Grace.
My bad. Second paragraph, last line states that the killer was charged with murder and kidnapping.
My bad. Second paragraph, last line states that the killer was charged with murder and kidnapping.
doug r - that's what happens when you cutandpasteandcutandpasteandcut....
Look! Bobcat!
doug r - that's what happens when you cutandpasteandcutandpasteandcut....
Look! Bobcat!
don't forget the loathing.
don't forget the loathing.
As filkertom wisely opined the other day: "When I want your opinion, I'll gut you and read your entrails..."
Konopelli | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:18 am
Great. Now that's gonna haunt me for days....
"Several pregnant women have been killed in recent years by attackers who then removed their fetuses, in some cases to pass the children off as their own."
These gruesome crimes are common!?! So much for hoping this was an isolated case.
BTW, how is this related to Bobo's world? I have been absent here for a while and I miss the reference.
As filkertom wisely opined the other day: "When I want your opinion, I'll gut you and read your entrails..."
Konopelli | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:18 am
Great. Now that's gonna haunt me for days....
"Several pregnant women have been killed in recent years by attackers who then removed their fetuses, in some cases to pass the children off as their own."
These gruesome crimes are common!?! So much for hoping this was an isolated case.
BTW, how is this related to Bobo's world? I have been absent here for a while and I miss the reference.
Honest to god, I can't even think of a more gruesome crime than killing a pregnant woman to steal her fetus.
Ohhhh, i dunno...Murdering 30,000 (plus or minus, who knows? who cares?) Iraqis to steal their oil might qualify, imho...
Honest to god, I can't even think of a more gruesome crime than killing a pregnant woman to steal her fetus.
Ohhhh, i dunno...Murdering 30,000 (plus or minus, who knows? who cares?) Iraqis to steal their oil might qualify, imho...
Are there any charges at all yet?
SWR | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:35 am
Murder of the mom, kidnapping of the child.
Are there any charges at all yet?
SWR | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:35 am
Murder of the mom, kidnapping of the child.
It's a Christmas Miracle, I mean Massacre!!
It's a Christmas Miracle, I mean Massacre!!
To add to that:
If the last sentence of the second paragraph states that the killer has been charged with murder and kidnapping, then WTF is up with the "a Kansas woman who the police charged with kidnapping resulting in death" bit?
I mean, she cut the victim open; how would that in any way be a "kidnapping resulting in death" which makes it sound like an accident?
Just standard poor reporting seems to be the culprit, though Reuters can usually be counted upon to do a better job.
To add to that:
If the last sentence of the second paragraph states that the killer has been charged with murder and kidnapping, then WTF is up with the "a Kansas woman who the police charged with kidnapping resulting in death" bit?
I mean, she cut the victim open; how would that in any way be a "kidnapping resulting in death" which makes it sound like an accident?
Just standard poor reporting seems to be the culprit, though Reuters can usually be counted upon to do a better job.
Non Tibi Spiro, I think it's a general reference to the good-heartedness and upright moral values 'n' stuff of red-staters, and just how much gosh-darn better they are than all us lib'rul scum....
Non Tibi Spiro, I think it's a general reference to the good-heartedness and upright moral values 'n' stuff of red-staters, and just how much gosh-darn better they are than all us lib'rul scum....
That is, they are counting on Gonzalez' nomination sailing through so that, when his subseuqent nomination for the SC(R)OTUS comes up, they'll be able to rebut criticism with the claim that he (Gonzalez) had already faced scrutingy for the AG post, and should be essentially awarded a free pass onto the HighCourt.
I read that when you posted it last night and thought to myself:
B
I
N
G
O
!
And if the dims fall for it, well shame on them and too bad for us.
I heard Reich the other day on SS reform, and christ I could hardly understand his argument and I have been paying attention to this story. He never once said 2042 is when the problem will start. That should have been repeated at least 30 times in a 50 word answer.
That is, they are counting on Gonzalez' nomination sailing through so that, when his subseuqent nomination for the SC(R)OTUS comes up, they'll be able to rebut criticism with the claim that he (Gonzalez) had already faced scrutingy for the AG post, and should be essentially awarded a free pass onto the HighCourt.
I read that when you posted it last night and thought to myself:
B
I
N
G
O
!
And if the dims fall for it, well shame on them and too bad for us.
I heard Reich the other day on SS reform, and christ I could hardly understand his argument and I have been paying attention to this story. He never once said 2042 is when the problem will start. That should have been repeated at least 30 times in a 50 word answer.
Great. Now that's gonna haunt me for days....
filkertom
It's a GREAT line...if i were still teaching, i'd have it inscribed on my office door...
Great. Now that's gonna haunt me for days....
filkertom
It's a GREAT line...if i were still teaching, i'd have it inscribed on my office door...
Speaking of Bobo, no column today...So allow me to fill in the gap with a past should have been Bobo Classic from 'murican history
Speaking of Bobo, no column today...So allow me to fill in the gap with a past should have been Bobo Classic from 'murican history
But I honestly fail to see what this awful story has to do with politics. A woman came unhinged after losing her own unborn baby and killed somebody else in order to get a child. As far as I can see, such a thing might have happened anywhere and involved people of any political stripe. Bobo? Atrios? Is this somehow apropos of a Brooks column that you did not link to? I am confused.
Blerb
Brooks is routinely spouting his blow hole about how people in the "heartland" value families and children in ways the heathen blue staters could never contemplate. And in a sense, he's right, because I am not aware of any librul blue stater types who have killed a pregnant lady to abscond with her fetus.
As for your point this could happen to anyone, countless women do have miscarriages and despite their grief, they don't turn to killing a pregnant woman to steal her fetus like it's a $25 crock pot at Wal-Mart she always wanted but somehow couldn't have.
But I honestly fail to see what this awful story has to do with politics. A woman came unhinged after losing her own unborn baby and killed somebody else in order to get a child. As far as I can see, such a thing might have happened anywhere and involved people of any political stripe. Bobo? Atrios? Is this somehow apropos of a Brooks column that you did not link to? I am confused.
Blerb
Brooks is routinely spouting his blow hole about how people in the "heartland" value families and children in ways the heathen blue staters could never contemplate. And in a sense, he's right, because I am not aware of any librul blue stater types who have killed a pregnant lady to abscond with her fetus.
As for your point this could happen to anyone, countless women do have miscarriages and despite their grief, they don't turn to killing a pregnant woman to steal her fetus like it's a $25 crock pot at Wal-Mart she always wanted but somehow couldn't have.
Don't forget the Trembling and the Sickness Unto Death. Happy Holidays!
Don't forget the Trembling and the Sickness Unto Death. Happy Holidays!
Oh I get it now.
Kidnapping.
Well, look. I understand the constitutional significance of giving legal status to a fetus, but once the child was outside the mother living on its own it was no longer a fetus, was it? I mean, no matter where you come down on this issue, it's an interesting (albeit ghoulish and tragic) legal question from a technical standpoint, isn't it?
As to the murder being secondary, I think the way the charges were made has more to do with the prosecutors strategy in trying to find a way to argue for the death penalty than it does with anybody's desire to give legal status to an unborn baby. But of course, I guess that wouldn't necessarily keep our National Windbag Collection on Capitol Hill from taking the issue up if they sense an opening. i suppose it would be in their interest to keep forcing the federal system to adjudicate the boundary conditions with cases likle this, since they can only gain ground on this issue in doing so. It would be pretty sick for them to use a tragic case like this to push their political point, though. If they do, it will be our job to make sure that they are liberally slathered with an overwhelming carrion stench in the eyes of the public for it.
Oh I get it now.
Kidnapping.
Well, look. I understand the constitutional significance of giving legal status to a fetus, but once the child was outside the mother living on its own it was no longer a fetus, was it? I mean, no matter where you come down on this issue, it's an interesting (albeit ghoulish and tragic) legal question from a technical standpoint, isn't it?
As to the murder being secondary, I think the way the charges were made has more to do with the prosecutors strategy in trying to find a way to argue for the death penalty than it does with anybody's desire to give legal status to an unborn baby. But of course, I guess that wouldn't necessarily keep our National Windbag Collection on Capitol Hill from taking the issue up if they sense an opening. i suppose it would be in their interest to keep forcing the federal system to adjudicate the boundary conditions with cases likle this, since they can only gain ground on this issue in doing so. It would be pretty sick for them to use a tragic case like this to push their political point, though. If they do, it will be our job to make sure that they are liberally slathered with an overwhelming carrion stench in the eyes of the public for it.
Res Ipsa -- how did the exam go?
Res Ipsa -- how did the exam go?
Great. Now that's gonna haunt me for days....
filkertom
It's a GREAT line...if i were still teaching, i'd have it inscribed on my office door...
Konopelli | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:43 am
Wish I could claim it -- I have to remember to ask my lady friend where she saw it.
Great. Now that's gonna haunt me for days....
filkertom
It's a GREAT line...if i were still teaching, i'd have it inscribed on my office door...
Konopelli | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:43 am
Wish I could claim it -- I have to remember to ask my lady friend where she saw it.
I believe they want to make the kidnapping the primary crime because felony murder with the underlying crime of kidnapping is a neater path to the death penalty.
Isn't a murder committed in the course of an interstate kidnapping a federal death penalty rap, while a plain old murder might not be?
I believe they want to make the kidnapping the primary crime because felony murder with the underlying crime of kidnapping is a neater path to the death penalty.
Isn't a murder committed in the course of an interstate kidnapping a federal death penalty rap, while a plain old murder might not be?
If anybody at HaloScan is reading this, will you please deep-six this piece-of-shit buggy software and write, license, or steal something that WORKS!?
Jayzus.
If anybody at HaloScan is reading this, will you please deep-six this piece-of-shit buggy software and write, license, or steal something that WORKS!?
Jayzus.
Can you imagine what the poor child is going to grow up thinking and feeling? The child's condition of "birth" is tragic.
If she does it more than once or is thinking of it regularly with the intent, it really reeks of the socioapathy of a serial killer.
The woman is truly sick. Not just a product of a red state.
signed,
liberal in a red state that would never cut a fetus out of a person because it's inhuman behavior. (shit, I don't think animals would dream of it)
Can you imagine what the poor child is going to grow up thinking and feeling? The child's condition of "birth" is tragic.
If she does it more than once or is thinking of it regularly with the intent, it really reeks of the socioapathy of a serial killer.
The woman is truly sick. Not just a product of a red state.
signed,
liberal in a red state that would never cut a fetus out of a person because it's inhuman behavior. (shit, I don't think animals would dream of it)
I mean, she cut the victim open; how would that in any way be a "kidnapping resulting in death" which makes it sound like an accident?
Just standard poor reporting seems to be the culprit, though Reuters can usually be counted upon to do a better job.
Jennifer | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:42 am | #
Isn't tht just "legalize". I think a murder connected to a kidnapping is probably a death penalty case so "kidnapping resulting in death" doesn't really mean a lighter sentence than flat out murder.
I mean, she cut the victim open; how would that in any way be a "kidnapping resulting in death" which makes it sound like an accident?
Just standard poor reporting seems to be the culprit, though Reuters can usually be counted upon to do a better job.
Jennifer | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:42 am | #
Isn't tht just "legalize". I think a murder connected to a kidnapping is probably a death penalty case so "kidnapping resulting in death" doesn't really mean a lighter sentence than flat out murder.
Isn't a murder committed in the course of an interstate kidnapping a federal death penalty rap, while a plain old murder might not be?
Uncontainable Contempt | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:47 am | #
Yeah. That's what I thought. I think Jennifer is having trouble getting past the clumsy legal style.
If you committ a murder to cover up a kidnapping, it's first degree murder.
Now "kidnapping resulting in murder" is probably something like "I locked her in the trunk to sneak her past the toll booths but I didn't want her to die" and I don't see how *that* would apply here.
Isn't a murder committed in the course of an interstate kidnapping a federal death penalty rap, while a plain old murder might not be?
Uncontainable Contempt | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:47 am | #
Yeah. That's what I thought. I think Jennifer is having trouble getting past the clumsy legal style.
If you committ a murder to cover up a kidnapping, it's first degree murder.
Now "kidnapping resulting in murder" is probably something like "I locked her in the trunk to sneak her past the toll booths but I didn't want her to die" and I don't see how *that* would apply here.
Re: whoever up there likened the peterson case to this fetus-stealing incident i'd like to observe that Modesto and Stanislaus County is as red as you get in Califoria going 59% for the texas drunk driver.
Re: whoever up there likened the peterson case to this fetus-stealing incident i'd like to observe that Modesto and Stanislaus County is as red as you get in Califoria going 59% for the texas drunk driver.
Tom Spencer - sorry about this report, but there is more on Skidmore.
Tom Spencer - sorry about this report, but there is more on Skidmore.
Agents who made the arrest said Montgomery had told her husband that she had unexpectedly given birth.
I guess Montgomery's hubby must be a gradjit of Our Infallible Mandater's Abstinence Curriculum or was home schooled.
Agents who made the arrest said Montgomery had told her husband that she had unexpectedly given birth.
I guess Montgomery's hubby must be a gradjit of Our Infallible Mandater's Abstinence Curriculum or was home schooled.
Stinky,
Yes, lots of women miscarry and don't turn to violence against others. Against themselves is more likely. When a woman loses a fetus, there is no social structure in place to help her, despite the fact that she's caught in a maelstrom of hormones and grief. In that sense, it's not unlike postpartum depression, where the hormonal and the psychological deliver a deadly one-two punch.
I am in no way excusing this crime. But I think it should be classed closer to an Andrea Yates sort of thing.
Stinky,
Yes, lots of women miscarry and don't turn to violence against others. Against themselves is more likely. When a woman loses a fetus, there is no social structure in place to help her, despite the fact that she's caught in a maelstrom of hormones and grief. In that sense, it's not unlike postpartum depression, where the hormonal and the psychological deliver a deadly one-two punch.
I am in no way excusing this crime. But I think it should be classed closer to an Andrea Yates sort of thing.
We are left alone without a care
Danger signs scream beware
But we simply refuse to see
We are heading for a catastrophe
Everyday the news gets worse
It is never reported chapter or verse
Instead with bromides and false assurance
They tell us its fine, it should not concern us
We are left alone without a care
Danger signs scream beware
But we simply refuse to see
We are heading for a catastrophe
Everyday the news gets worse
It is never reported chapter or verse
Instead with bromides and false assurance
They tell us its fine, it should not concern us
Oh, and we actually have no statistics of post-miscarriage depression and psychosis, at least none that I've seen. Why? Because nobody fucking counts them until something gruesome like this happens.
Oh, and we actually have no statistics of post-miscarriage depression and psychosis, at least none that I've seen. Why? Because nobody fucking counts them until something gruesome like this happens.
more animalistic behavior
filkertom, thanks! Now I can follow (with Brooks in mind, that is).
more animalistic behavior
filkertom, thanks! Now I can follow (with Brooks in mind, that is).
Some urged caution, not wanting to 'squander' political capital
Humh. What political capital do the Democrats think they have? The lilly-livered simps, wimps, wusses, and cowards do not have the gumption or intestinal fortitude to stand up for themselves or the 55 million of us that supported them in the election.
As I have heard all my life, the Lord helps those who help themselves.
Yep, a hackneyed cliche, but one that applies in this case.
Back on track: I have a 23 year old daughter. To think that an act as depraved as this could happen to someone that young (or any age for that matter) short-circuits my brain.
Some urged caution, not wanting to 'squander' political capital
Humh. What political capital do the Democrats think they have? The lilly-livered simps, wimps, wusses, and cowards do not have the gumption or intestinal fortitude to stand up for themselves or the 55 million of us that supported them in the election.
As I have heard all my life, the Lord helps those who help themselves.
Yep, a hackneyed cliche, but one that applies in this case.
Back on track: I have a 23 year old daughter. To think that an act as depraved as this could happen to someone that young (or any age for that matter) short-circuits my brain.
NYMary - there doesn't appear to be anything suggesting the kidnapper ever actually -was- pregnant recently - only that she had claimed to be. Different pattern I'm afraid.
NYMary - there doesn't appear to be anything suggesting the kidnapper ever actually -was- pregnant recently - only that she had claimed to be. Different pattern I'm afraid.
weblackey - agreed, the woman is sick.
But I can't help but wonder if this type of "sickness" is fostered by "social mores" which place greater value on fetuses (the unborn, non-citizens) than it does on the women who carry them (incubators, albeit ones with voting rights). I mean, you can't really get to the point of ripping open a pregnant woman to steal her fetus without placing ultimate value on the latter and zero value on the former. Which is essentially a part of the Republican platform and the creed of many a fundie church.
I saw a documentary on IFC or Sundance the other night, called "Beneath the Veil". It was about the anonymous woman shot in the widely played video of the Taliban exectutions at the Kabul soccer stadium. The documentary tracked down her identity and her seven children; the rest of it focused more generally on the systematic abuse of women in that society. I kept thinking over and over, any society which hates, abuses, and degrades a full half of its members is deeply sick. No God worthy of worship would have ever demanded such.
And yet that's where we're headed, though we've a long way to go to become that depraved. But I'd be willing to bet that something like 25% of white males in this country would have no problem with a social system and set of laws which allowed systematic daily abuse of women.
weblackey - agreed, the woman is sick.
But I can't help but wonder if this type of "sickness" is fostered by "social mores" which place greater value on fetuses (the unborn, non-citizens) than it does on the women who carry them (incubators, albeit ones with voting rights). I mean, you can't really get to the point of ripping open a pregnant woman to steal her fetus without placing ultimate value on the latter and zero value on the former. Which is essentially a part of the Republican platform and the creed of many a fundie church.
I saw a documentary on IFC or Sundance the other night, called "Beneath the Veil". It was about the anonymous woman shot in the widely played video of the Taliban exectutions at the Kabul soccer stadium. The documentary tracked down her identity and her seven children; the rest of it focused more generally on the systematic abuse of women in that society. I kept thinking over and over, any society which hates, abuses, and degrades a full half of its members is deeply sick. No God worthy of worship would have ever demanded such.
And yet that's where we're headed, though we've a long way to go to become that depraved. But I'd be willing to bet that something like 25% of white males in this country would have no problem with a social system and set of laws which allowed systematic daily abuse of women.
Konopelli, as soon as I saw that Gonzales was going to be nominated, I IMMEDIATELY wrote my two Democratic senators, telling them in no uncertain terms that I wanted them to fight this to the death, because torture is NOT an American value. I think I got a response from one of them (probably Clinton; I never get a response from Schumer -- go figure) saying that they weren't going to "prejudge" any nominee. Pretty wimpy answer in my opinion. There's no prejudging here; it's a matter of looking at the public record and seeing what the guy's already done, for God's sake!
Maybe I should write them again?
Konopelli, as soon as I saw that Gonzales was going to be nominated, I IMMEDIATELY wrote my two Democratic senators, telling them in no uncertain terms that I wanted them to fight this to the death, because torture is NOT an American value. I think I got a response from one of them (probably Clinton; I never get a response from Schumer -- go figure) saying that they weren't going to "prejudge" any nominee. Pretty wimpy answer in my opinion. There's no prejudging here; it's a matter of looking at the public record and seeing what the guy's already done, for God's sake!
Maybe I should write them again?
Stinky,
RE: As for your point this could happen to anyone....
I didn't say this could happen to anyone, I said it could happen anywhere. I would say that's an important ditinction. It goes without saying that you have to have serious, fortunately rare psychotic tendencies in order to commit a crime like that. Anyway, as you can see from my post abouve, the coffe kicked in and I got the political point Atrios was making with this, although I'm not sure that I buy that the reference to Brooks is of such a generic nature.
Stinky,
RE: As for your point this could happen to anyone....
I didn't say this could happen to anyone, I said it could happen anywhere. I would say that's an important ditinction. It goes without saying that you have to have serious, fortunately rare psychotic tendencies in order to commit a crime like that. Anyway, as you can see from my post abouve, the coffe kicked in and I got the political point Atrios was making with this, although I'm not sure that I buy that the reference to Brooks is of such a generic nature.
I have long believed the people in the "red States" have deep deep problems. Many are socio-economic. Their bible stomping "pastors" themselves educated in a questionable fashion have fed propaganda to enrich the church. Its how they make their living. Watch the religious stations the "sermons" are moronic. Forin stance Pat Robinson is a very wealthy man yet he is constantly on the take!!!
I think these stories we read about red state people tell us just how bad it is, I confess I don't have any answers for the Democratic Party who loses out politically because the Republicans know how to play these people. But I will say my mother taught me to know my enemy better than my friends. Instead of hating the "moral values" pople we need to rescue them!! HOw? donnno
I have long believed the people in the "red States" have deep deep problems. Many are socio-economic. Their bible stomping "pastors" themselves educated in a questionable fashion have fed propaganda to enrich the church. Its how they make their living. Watch the religious stations the "sermons" are moronic. Forin stance Pat Robinson is a very wealthy man yet he is constantly on the take!!!
I think these stories we read about red state people tell us just how bad it is, I confess I don't have any answers for the Democratic Party who loses out politically because the Republicans know how to play these people. But I will say my mother taught me to know my enemy better than my friends. Instead of hating the "moral values" pople we need to rescue them!! HOw? donnno
I am in no way excusing this crime. But I think it should be classed closer to an Andrea Yates sort of thing.
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:56 am | #
But it takes a certain presence of mind to be able to surgically remove a fetus without killing it, doesn't it?
If this woman had been in the same state Andrea Yates had been in wouldn't she have botched the operation?
I am in no way excusing this crime. But I think it should be classed closer to an Andrea Yates sort of thing.
NYMary | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 10:56 am | #
But it takes a certain presence of mind to be able to surgically remove a fetus without killing it, doesn't it?
If this woman had been in the same state Andrea Yates had been in wouldn't she have botched the operation?
I dunno, man.
I think mental illness transcends the red state/blue state divide. A horror regardless of where it happened.
The victim was a factory worker and likely a union member as well. I hope that there is a strong support mechanism in place for the husband.
I dunno, man.
I think mental illness transcends the red state/blue state divide. A horror regardless of where it happened.
The victim was a factory worker and likely a union member as well. I hope that there is a strong support mechanism in place for the husband.
filkertom:
true story...
When i was teaching, i would often use rhetorical questions to stimulate thinking. During the first class meeting of one particular course one year, a particularly aggressive and ostentatiously Christian male student took it upon himslef to reply to the rhetorical questions I was posing with deliberately challenging answers. I let it pass on the first iteration, and i let it pass on the second iteration, but after the third iteration, i simply said: "Sir, you may be glad we are not members of another species because, were we, I'd have to kill you now or drive you out of the pack..."
filkertom:
true story...
When i was teaching, i would often use rhetorical questions to stimulate thinking. During the first class meeting of one particular course one year, a particularly aggressive and ostentatiously Christian male student took it upon himslef to reply to the rhetorical questions I was posing with deliberately challenging answers. I let it pass on the first iteration, and i let it pass on the second iteration, but after the third iteration, i simply said: "Sir, you may be glad we are not members of another species because, were we, I'd have to kill you now or drive you out of the pack..."
ot:
UN US Khaleej Times
US threatening UN agency funds over Arab report
CAIRO - The lead writer of a UN report on freedom and governance in the Arab world said on Saturday the United States was threatening to cut off funds to a UN agency if the United Nations releases it....
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/
Disp...ection=theworld
...same old, same old...
ot:
UN US Khaleej Times
US threatening UN agency funds over Arab report
CAIRO - The lead writer of a UN report on freedom and governance in the Arab world said on Saturday the United States was threatening to cut off funds to a UN agency if the United Nations releases it....
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/
Disp...ection=theworld
...same old, same old...
NYMary,
there's actually been a lot of research on the different types of post-partum 'depression' ranging from 'blues' to psychosis. Here's a quick summary of stats, but there are a lot of journal articles about the issue. It is pretty well established that in the US about 10% of women experience pp depression to the extent that it interferes with activities of daily living, with about 1% experiencing frank psychosis.
NYMary,
there's actually been a lot of research on the different types of post-partum 'depression' ranging from 'blues' to psychosis. Here's a quick summary of stats, but there are a lot of journal articles about the issue. It is pretty well established that in the US about 10% of women experience pp depression to the extent that it interferes with activities of daily living, with about 1% experiencing frank psychosis.
I should say, that also holds for miscarriage.
I should say, that also holds for miscarriage.
I saw a documentary on IFC or Sundance the other night, called "Beneath the Veil". It was about the anonymous woman shot in the widely played video of the Taliban exectutions at the Kabul soccer stadium.
The cameraman who shot "Beneath the Veil" was a man named James Miller, which was killed by the Israelis in Gaza.
I've always found that pretty appalling. But the right wing blogs never flogged Miller the same way they did Rachel Corrie because Miller was apolitical. So it didn't get a lot of play on the web.
And everybody else pretty much ignored it.
I saw a documentary on IFC or Sundance the other night, called "Beneath the Veil". It was about the anonymous woman shot in the widely played video of the Taliban exectutions at the Kabul soccer stadium.
The cameraman who shot "Beneath the Veil" was a man named James Miller, which was killed by the Israelis in Gaza.
I've always found that pretty appalling. But the right wing blogs never flogged Miller the same way they did Rachel Corrie because Miller was apolitical. So it didn't get a lot of play on the web.
And everybody else pretty much ignored it.
""Sir, you may be glad we are not members of another species because, were we, I'd have to kill you now or drive you out of the pack...""
And I got counselled for telling kids to stop running or I'd make them wish they had!
""Sir, you may be glad we are not members of another species because, were we, I'd have to kill you now or drive you out of the pack...""
And I got counselled for telling kids to stop running or I'd make them wish they had!
filkertom...The exam was, as anticipated, a bloodbath. But it is OVER and I will not check grades until after the new year. Thanks for asking.
filkertom...The exam was, as anticipated, a bloodbath. But it is OVER and I will not check grades until after the new year. Thanks for asking.
What if Mrs. Stinnett had been kidnapped, murdered, and her body dumped in an area where her husband coincidentally visited. Would the Modesto Fertilizer Salesguy's lynch mob be calling Mr. Stinnett another SP? Can you imagine the scoffing about baby stealing Satanists driving around MO. in a Japanese compact?
What if Mrs. Stinnett had been kidnapped, murdered, and her body dumped in an area where her husband coincidentally visited. Would the Modesto Fertilizer Salesguy's lynch mob be calling Mr. Stinnett another SP? Can you imagine the scoffing about baby stealing Satanists driving around MO. in a Japanese compact?
A woman came unhinged after losing her own unborn baby and killed somebody else in order to get a child. As far as I can see, such a thing might have happened anywhere and involved people of any political stripe.
Yes, it's very sad when you think about the killer as a person with a history, illnesses, hopes and fears. I also feel badly for the 23 year old, expecting her first child and looking forward to Christmas, and her husband, who is expecting the same happinesses, only to have their lives ripped apart.
The problem with stopping at the sympathy, though, is that this is a crime driven by the whip of natalism. Why would the killer have been driven insane, essentially, by losing a child unless she had surrendered to the idea that having children was her most fulfilling purpose and losing a pregnancy was the worst thing that could happen?
She's obviously got some pretty serious mental problems but how much of that comes from living in an environment that trumpets fecundity above all other female features? I, too, am interested to see what her cultural milieu is - what Christian church, what working environment and opportunity.
And they probably all voted for Bush.
A woman came unhinged after losing her own unborn baby and killed somebody else in order to get a child. As far as I can see, such a thing might have happened anywhere and involved people of any political stripe.
Yes, it's very sad when you think about the killer as a person with a history, illnesses, hopes and fears. I also feel badly for the 23 year old, expecting her first child and looking forward to Christmas, and her husband, who is expecting the same happinesses, only to have their lives ripped apart.
The problem with stopping at the sympathy, though, is that this is a crime driven by the whip of natalism. Why would the killer have been driven insane, essentially, by losing a child unless she had surrendered to the idea that having children was her most fulfilling purpose and losing a pregnancy was the worst thing that could happen?
She's obviously got some pretty serious mental problems but how much of that comes from living in an environment that trumpets fecundity above all other female features? I, too, am interested to see what her cultural milieu is - what Christian church, what working environment and opportunity.
And they probably all voted for Bush.
Bobo loooves to visit red land from the safety of desk in blue land.
Bobo loooves to visit red land from the safety of desk in blue land.
I should also say that it is OB standard of care to screen for symptoms of pp depression, which is treatable and is a physiological disorder, as opposed to a cultural or character flaw, which goes without saying.
I should also say that it is OB standard of care to screen for symptoms of pp depression, which is treatable and is a physiological disorder, as opposed to a cultural or character flaw, which goes without saying.
SWR - I saw "Death in Gaza" too. But the narrator for the documentary I saw the other night was not the same British woman (of Afghani heritage). I think the confusion arises from the fact that there are at least two documentaries entitled "Beneath the Veil" - one was produced by National Geographic and ran in heavy rotation on one of the NBCs after 9/11; this one I saw the other night was a different film.
SWR - I saw "Death in Gaza" too. But the narrator for the documentary I saw the other night was not the same British woman (of Afghani heritage). I think the confusion arises from the fact that there are at least two documentaries entitled "Beneath the Veil" - one was produced by National Geographic and ran in heavy rotation on one of the NBCs after 9/11; this one I saw the other night was a different film.
I heard this reported last night including the comment on the tragic death of the mother, but on a happy note the child was found and had survived.
I could not figure out what was happy. The whole affair is a tragedy. The child has lost its mother, the mother was butchered and killed. Happy just does not come into the equation.
Happy would be the killer was discovered and apprehended before she caused any harm at all.
The only thing I can say is it was fortunate the child survived.
I hate newscast folk. They are shallow and I don't even think they know what they are saying or care. Half the time they deliver some horrifying news and then step into the next news item with a big smile. When they began to pay more attention to their image than the content, things went to hell. Give me the days of a dog faced anchor who had a few threads sticking out of his tie, providing the news in a droning monotone. And sports news only occupied 5 minutes of a broadcast.
I heard this reported last night including the comment on the tragic death of the mother, but on a happy note the child was found and had survived.
I could not figure out what was happy. The whole affair is a tragedy. The child has lost its mother, the mother was butchered and killed. Happy just does not come into the equation.
Happy would be the killer was discovered and apprehended before she caused any harm at all.
The only thing I can say is it was fortunate the child survived.
I hate newscast folk. They are shallow and I don't even think they know what they are saying or care. Half the time they deliver some horrifying news and then step into the next news item with a big smile. When they began to pay more attention to their image than the content, things went to hell. Give me the days of a dog faced anchor who had a few threads sticking out of his tie, providing the news in a droning monotone. And sports news only occupied 5 minutes of a broadcast.
Res Ipsa -- indeed. Now comes hot bath/good book/delivered food/glass of wine time.
Konopelli -- "Awww, innit cute! It's pretending to think!" 
Must run. Catch you all later.
Res Ipsa -- indeed. Now comes hot bath/good book/delivered food/glass of wine time.
Konopelli -- "Awww, innit cute! It's pretending to think!"
Must run. Catch you all later.
Ahem: "Why would the killer have been driven insane, essentially, by losing a child"
There is no evidence that the kidnapper actually was pregnant or had lost anything except her marbles. She is reported to have two teenaged children. She is reported to have claimed to be pregnant. The 'claiming to be pregnant' thing occurs fairly often, and over the years has accounted for any number of child stealings from maternity wards, and from new mothers. It hasn't anything to do with postpartum depression because there is no postpartum. There is an underlying madness which dictates the need to acquire a baby of her own, in whatever way available. But the two things - pp depression and mental disease fostered by societal pressure - are not connected materially.
Ahem: "Why would the killer have been driven insane, essentially, by losing a child"
There is no evidence that the kidnapper actually was pregnant or had lost anything except her marbles. She is reported to have two teenaged children. She is reported to have claimed to be pregnant. The 'claiming to be pregnant' thing occurs fairly often, and over the years has accounted for any number of child stealings from maternity wards, and from new mothers. It hasn't anything to do with postpartum depression because there is no postpartum. There is an underlying madness which dictates the need to acquire a baby of her own, in whatever way available. But the two things - pp depression and mental disease fostered by societal pressure - are not connected materially.
Wanna bet that the MO persecutor will use some sort of fuzzy pretzel logic to shoehorn "Laci's" law into this case?
Wanna bet that the MO persecutor will use some sort of fuzzy pretzel logic to shoehorn "Laci's" law into this case?
SWR - I saw "Death in Gaza" too. But the narrator for the documentary I saw the other night was not the same British woman (of Afghani heritage).
But it *was* the same cameraman. I'm not saying the Israelis murdered him. Obviously he got caught in a war zone and got dusted by some idiot soldiers.
But I've always found it appalling that you could survive the Taliban but not Gaza.
SWR - I saw "Death in Gaza" too. But the narrator for the documentary I saw the other night was not the same British woman (of Afghani heritage).
But it *was* the same cameraman. I'm not saying the Israelis murdered him. Obviously he got caught in a war zone and got dusted by some idiot soldiers.
But I've always found it appalling that you could survive the Taliban but not Gaza.
Is this what's the matter with Kansas?
Is this what's the matter with Kansas?
Although I don't know if it was the same "Beneath the Veil" I saw where the Taliban shoot the women in the back of the head on camera.
Although I don't know if it was the same "Beneath the Veil" I saw where the Taliban shoot the women in the back of the head on camera.
GWPDA,
I thought I'd read that she miscarried recently.
SWR,
As I recall, Andrea Yates was pretty organized, laying the kids out nealy in their beds. Not sure if that makes much difference, though.
Phredd,
One thing about miscarriage depression is that it's frequently classed with post-partum depression. As I noted, they're similar, but in one case, there's grief added into the mix, which I think makes a psychotic reaction more likely.
GWPDA,
I thought I'd read that she miscarried recently.
SWR,
As I recall, Andrea Yates was pretty organized, laying the kids out nealy in their beds. Not sure if that makes much difference, though.
Phredd,
One thing about miscarriage depression is that it's frequently classed with post-partum depression. As I noted, they're similar, but in one case, there's grief added into the mix, which I think makes a psychotic reaction more likely.
SWR - I saw "Death in Gaza" too. But the narrator for the documentary
That scene where the 12 year old kid is playing paddycake with the Hamas militants and the woman keeps asking him if they don't think he's too young is chilling.
Especially when they turn to her and say something like "sister. If he dies. There are plenty more where he comes from".
SWR - I saw "Death in Gaza" too. But the narrator for the documentary
That scene where the 12 year old kid is playing paddycake with the Hamas militants and the woman keeps asking him if they don't think he's too young is chilling.
Especially when they turn to her and say something like "sister. If he dies. There are plenty more where he comes from".
Montgomery was just a hometown, home schooled OBGYN looking to pratice her love.
Montgomery was just a hometown, home schooled OBGYN looking to pratice her love.
I should also say that it is OB standard of care to screen for symptoms of pp depression, which is treatable and is a physiological disorder, as opposed to a cultural or character flaw, which goes without saying.
This frequently consists of the nurse asking "How ya doin'?" while reading the chart.
I should also say that it is OB standard of care to screen for symptoms of pp depression, which is treatable and is a physiological disorder, as opposed to a cultural or character flaw, which goes without saying.
This frequently consists of the nurse asking "How ya doin'?" while reading the chart.
Reminds me of an article I read once, years ago, about police work, and the truly bizarre and appalling things people do to each other, things police encounter on a regular basis, but are seldom reported on.
Such as the man who woke up one morning and took it into his head to stitch his wife's (lover's? girlfriends?) breasts together. (and that, by the way, is all I remember of the mention of it except that, obviously, somehow, he did it).
Bobo's world? Put this down to "Police Blotter." People are odder and more perplexing and more complex than ever human imagination can create.
Reminds me of an article I read once, years ago, about police work, and the truly bizarre and appalling things people do to each other, things police encounter on a regular basis, but are seldom reported on.
Such as the man who woke up one morning and took it into his head to stitch his wife's (lover's? girlfriends?) breasts together. (and that, by the way, is all I remember of the mention of it except that, obviously, somehow, he did it).
Bobo's world? Put this down to "Police Blotter." People are odder and more perplexing and more complex than ever human imagination can create.
"Sir, you may be glad we are not members of another species because, were we, I'd have to kill you now or drive you out of the pack..."
Now that's what I'm talkin' about.
Can you remember how the little pimp responded?
Back in the 70's when I was in school, the Jesus Freak (charismatic) movement was getting started. In my Quant Analysis class, we had a guy that sounded like the kid you described. Always smugly preaching the word, spouting the platitudes like "God loves you and I love you" and the like.
One day, in the lab, which for quant was a bitch, I screwed up an experiment and exclaimed "Jesus Christ!" as I was pissed. The Jesus Freank came from the other side of the lab to dress me down about my poor choice of words. I politely invited him to retire to the exterior of the building so he could straighten up my attitude. That was about the last time the boy ever bothered with me.
"Sir, you may be glad we are not members of another species because, were we, I'd have to kill you now or drive you out of the pack..."
Now that's what I'm talkin' about.
Can you remember how the little pimp responded?
Back in the 70's when I was in school, the Jesus Freak (charismatic) movement was getting started. In my Quant Analysis class, we had a guy that sounded like the kid you described. Always smugly preaching the word, spouting the platitudes like "God loves you and I love you" and the like.
One day, in the lab, which for quant was a bitch, I screwed up an experiment and exclaimed "Jesus Christ!" as I was pissed. The Jesus Freank came from the other side of the lab to dress me down about my poor choice of words. I politely invited him to retire to the exterior of the building so he could straighten up my attitude. That was about the last time the boy ever bothered with me.
serial killers and psychopaths are known for keeping "a perverse version" of wits about them while committing the most heinous crimes. This woman is so sick. So sick. Is there any way to see this coming, or does the environment camouflage the psychosis?
Yes, Jennifer, I agree, we are deeply effected by the mores around us. Some of us to the point of psychotic behavior. And what you say about how this can manifest is absolutely true. What the hell kind of delusional suffering or just plain phychosis leads to this? It's really beyond me.
This truly horrific behavior could happen anywhere, though. Red state is just a statistic. See a voting by county map, and you'll see, there's a frightening speck of red in our bluest states. Wait, I was wrong...not MA, and it seems RI.
Plus, the social structures that exist that negatively effect us do not end at the state line...they extend to the most liberal coffee shops. Theres just open disapproval by a larger populace.
I'm sad for the child.
serial killers and psychopaths are known for keeping "a perverse version" of wits about them while committing the most heinous crimes. This woman is so sick. So sick. Is there any way to see this coming, or does the environment camouflage the psychosis?
Yes, Jennifer, I agree, we are deeply effected by the mores around us. Some of us to the point of psychotic behavior. And what you say about how this can manifest is absolutely true. What the hell kind of delusional suffering or just plain phychosis leads to this? It's really beyond me.
This truly horrific behavior could happen anywhere, though. Red state is just a statistic. See a voting by county map, and you'll see, there's a frightening speck of red in our bluest states. Wait, I was wrong...not MA, and it seems RI.
Plus, the social structures that exist that negatively effect us do not end at the state line...they extend to the most liberal coffee shops. Theres just open disapproval by a larger populace.
I'm sad for the child.
Such as the man who woke up one morning and took it into his head to stitch his wife's (lover's? girlfriends?) breasts together. (and that, by the way, is all I remember of the mention of it except that, obviously, somehow, he did it).
Sounds like drugs or alcohol had to be involved. I can't imagine her not waking up and saying WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?
Such as the man who woke up one morning and took it into his head to stitch his wife's (lover's? girlfriends?) breasts together. (and that, by the way, is all I remember of the mention of it except that, obviously, somehow, he did it).
Sounds like drugs or alcohol had to be involved. I can't imagine her not waking up and saying WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?
And the divide widens.
You dumb fucks always suprise me. Everytime I think you couldn't be more out of the mainstream you figure out a way to prove me wrong.
Blaming birth defects on DU and now placing the blame for this sick crime on "red staters"
Fucking pathetic.
Atrios, Hecate,SWR the like.
And the divide widens.
You dumb fucks always suprise me. Everytime I think you couldn't be more out of the mainstream you figure out a way to prove me wrong.
Blaming birth defects on DU and now placing the blame for this sick crime on "red staters"
Fucking pathetic.
Atrios, Hecate,SWR the like.
This frequently consists of the nurse asking "How ya doin'?" while reading the chart.
Well, the insurance company is only paying for 24 hours of hospital time.
Complications are expensive....
This frequently consists of the nurse asking "How ya doin'?" while reading the chart.
Well, the insurance company is only paying for 24 hours of hospital time.
Complications are expensive....
Blaming birth defects on DU and now placing the blame for this sick crime on "red staters"
Fucking pathetic.
Atrios, Hecate,SWR the like.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 11:24 am | #
Is there any doubt that the right wouldn't have played this up had it involved this kind of a bizarre crime in NYC or Berkeley?
Is there any doubt Brooks wouldn't have written a column comparing those bad liberals with those moral people out in the red states?
That's the point. Sorry you can't see it.
Blaming birth defects on DU and now placing the blame for this sick crime on "red staters"
Fucking pathetic.
Atrios, Hecate,SWR the like.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 11:24 am | #
Is there any doubt that the right wouldn't have played this up had it involved this kind of a bizarre crime in NYC or Berkeley?
Is there any doubt Brooks wouldn't have written a column comparing those bad liberals with those moral people out in the red states?
That's the point. Sorry you can't see it.
So, Tin Nut, what's your explanation for the 10,000% increase in birth defects and 2,000% increase in childhood cancers in southern Iraq in the 10 years following Gulf War I, when we covered the entire area with DU?
So, Tin Nut, what's your explanation for the 10,000% increase in birth defects and 2,000% increase in childhood cancers in southern Iraq in the 10 years following Gulf War I, when we covered the entire area with DU?
Remember when the right played up John Walker Lindh as some typical product of a "blue state".
Where exactly was "Tin Nut" when that was going on.
Most people in "Blue States" don't join the Taliban.
Remember when the right played up John Walker Lindh as some typical product of a "blue state".
Where exactly was "Tin Nut" when that was going on.
Most people in "Blue States" don't join the Taliban.
Sounds like drugs or alcohol had to be involved. I can't imagine her not waking up and saying WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?
I'm sure it was something besides "sound sleep." I just remember the image of it, from a brief mention in a longer article. It was more of an example of the extreme bizarreness of human behavior, as regularly witnessed by police officers.
But the appalling image, and the appalling imagination it took to think, "Gee, what if...?" in someone, and then to carry it out....
...that's what has stayed with me.
Sounds like drugs or alcohol had to be involved. I can't imagine her not waking up and saying WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?
I'm sure it was something besides "sound sleep." I just remember the image of it, from a brief mention in a longer article. It was more of an example of the extreme bizarreness of human behavior, as regularly witnessed by police officers.
But the appalling image, and the appalling imagination it took to think, "Gee, what if...?" in someone, and then to carry it out....
...that's what has stayed with me.
This country has no morals at all anymore. The Dallas paper recommended John O'Neill for Texan of the Year this morning.
What can we expect from our citizens when the government is completely devoid of real morals? What do we expect of people when lies are now more important than the truth?
I don't know. There are days when I just really wonder if it isn't the end of everything. There isn't much in the way of truth anywhere in this country anymore. It's fairy tales and stupid celebrity tricks.
I'm so ashamed of this country. I'm totally disgusted.
This country has no morals at all anymore. The Dallas paper recommended John O'Neill for Texan of the Year this morning.
What can we expect from our citizens when the government is completely devoid of real morals? What do we expect of people when lies are now more important than the truth?
I don't know. There are days when I just really wonder if it isn't the end of everything. There isn't much in the way of truth anywhere in this country anymore. It's fairy tales and stupid celebrity tricks.
I'm so ashamed of this country. I'm totally disgusted.
"I thought I'd read that she miscarried recently."
That's what she said. There is nothing to support the claim. As noted, the deplorable and almost commonplace event is that of women claiming to be pregnant and then, when their deception really has to either be admitted or be made so, stealing a newborn. This is the kind of thing for which the newborn computerised ID bracelets are made, the ones that are matched to Mummy alone. Cutting a baby from Mummy without consent is one step beyond this, but it's pretty obviously the same desperation provoked in the same way - that only having a baby will do. For whatever reason offered, there must be a baby. It's lunacy. It's criminality. It may be chemical, but it's not postpartum.
"I thought I'd read that she miscarried recently."
That's what she said. There is nothing to support the claim. As noted, the deplorable and almost commonplace event is that of women claiming to be pregnant and then, when their deception really has to either be admitted or be made so, stealing a newborn. This is the kind of thing for which the newborn computerised ID bracelets are made, the ones that are matched to Mummy alone. Cutting a baby from Mummy without consent is one step beyond this, but it's pretty obviously the same desperation provoked in the same way - that only having a baby will do. For whatever reason offered, there must be a baby. It's lunacy. It's criminality. It may be chemical, but it's not postpartum.
I hate newscast folk. They are shallow and I don't even think they know what they are saying or care. Half the time they deliver some horrifying news and then step into the next news item with a big smile.
We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
Comes on at five
She can tell you bout the plane crash with a gleam
In her eye
Its interesting when people die-
Give us dirty laundry
Can we film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know, the boys in the newsroom got a Running bet
Get the widow on the set!
We need dirty laundry
Don Henley 1982
I hate newscast folk. They are shallow and I don't even think they know what they are saying or care. Half the time they deliver some horrifying news and then step into the next news item with a big smile.
We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
Comes on at five
She can tell you bout the plane crash with a gleam
In her eye
Its interesting when people die-
Give us dirty laundry
Can we film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know, the boys in the newsroom got a Running bet
Get the widow on the set!
We need dirty laundry
Don Henley 1982
Yeah SWR, pretty fucking stupid isnt it. And now your just as fucking stupid. Happy now.
Yeah SWR, pretty fucking stupid isnt it. And now your just as fucking stupid. Happy now.
But I'd be willing to bet that something like 25% of white males in this country would have no problem with a social system and set of laws which allowed systematic daily abuse of women
Sweetie,
Don't kid yourself. It's more like 25% of white males in this country would have a problem with that knd of social system.
But I'd be willing to bet that something like 25% of white males in this country would have no problem with a social system and set of laws which allowed systematic daily abuse of women
Sweetie,
Don't kid yourself. It's more like 25% of white males in this country would have a problem with that knd of social system.
shouldn't do this, but need to.
TN
No one's blaming anyone for anything. Except I may blame you for being obtuse.
Atrios merely points out hypocrisy and the stupidity of Bobo's thesis that somehow red staters are more moral and fecund than blue staters and that they are to not only be admired for it, but they should be emulated by the librul blue staters as well.
In fact, red staters are as subject to doing evil as any other group of people in this country, blue, pink, green or yellow states notwithstanding.
shouldn't do this, but need to.
TN
No one's blaming anyone for anything. Except I may blame you for being obtuse.
Atrios merely points out hypocrisy and the stupidity of Bobo's thesis that somehow red staters are more moral and fecund than blue staters and that they are to not only be admired for it, but they should be emulated by the librul blue staters as well.
In fact, red staters are as subject to doing evil as any other group of people in this country, blue, pink, green or yellow states notwithstanding.
Yeah SWR, pretty fucking stupid isnt it. And now your just as fucking stupid. Happy now.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 11:30 am | #
You didn't answer my question. Where were you when the press blamed San Francisco for John Walker Lindh?
Probably joining the chorus.
And yes, I admit it's pretty fucking stupid to say that people in one part of the country are more "moral" than in others.
But that's what your side is going, not mine.
Yeah SWR, pretty fucking stupid isnt it. And now your just as fucking stupid. Happy now.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 11:30 am | #
You didn't answer my question. Where were you when the press blamed San Francisco for John Walker Lindh?
Probably joining the chorus.
And yes, I admit it's pretty fucking stupid to say that people in one part of the country are more "moral" than in others.
But that's what your side is going, not mine.
GWPDA,
Fair enough. And I would side with the feminist argument here that as long as women's worth is based on their fecundity, we're going to have these problems.
GWPDA,
Fair enough. And I would side with the feminist argument here that as long as women's worth is based on their fecundity, we're going to have these problems.
I don't know. There are days when I just really wonder if it isn't the end of everything. There isn't much in the way of truth anywhere in this country anymore. It's fairy tales and stupid celebrity tricks.
Tena,
On my dark days, I agree. Lately, I've been reading "The God Forsakes Anthony" -- the poem by Cavafy. I'm afraid sometimes that America is "the Alexandria that is leaving."
*****
The God Forsakes Anthony
When suddenly, at midnight, you hear
an invisible procession going by
with exquisite music, voices,
dont mourn your luck thats failing now,
work gone wrong, your plans
all proving deceptivedont mourn them uselessly.
As one long prepared, and graced with courage,
say goodbye to her, the Alexandria that is leaving.
Above all, dont fool yourself, dont say
it was a dream, your ears deceived you:
dont degrade yourself with empty hopes like these.
As one long prepared, and graced with courage,
as is right for you who were given this kind of city,
go firmly to the window
and listen with deep emotion, but not
with the whining, the pleas of a coward;
listenyour final delectationto the voices,
to the exquisite music of that strange procession,
and say goodbye to her, to the Alexandria you are losing.
I don't know. There are days when I just really wonder if it isn't the end of everything. There isn't much in the way of truth anywhere in this country anymore. It's fairy tales and stupid celebrity tricks.
Tena,
On my dark days, I agree. Lately, I've been reading "The God Forsakes Anthony" -- the poem by Cavafy. I'm afraid sometimes that America is "the Alexandria that is leaving."
*****
The God Forsakes Anthony
When suddenly, at midnight, you hear
an invisible procession going by
with exquisite music, voices,
dont mourn your luck thats failing now,
work gone wrong, your plans
all proving deceptivedont mourn them uselessly.
As one long prepared, and graced with courage,
say goodbye to her, the Alexandria that is leaving.
Above all, dont fool yourself, dont say
it was a dream, your ears deceived you:
dont degrade yourself with empty hopes like these.
As one long prepared, and graced with courage,
as is right for you who were given this kind of city,
go firmly to the window
and listen with deep emotion, but not
with the whining, the pleas of a coward;
listenyour final delectationto the voices,
to the exquisite music of that strange procession,
and say goodbye to her, to the Alexandria you are losing.
Refrain from feeding the energy creature. Let it die.
Refrain from feeding the energy creature. Let it die.
And of course when the cable news shows start looking for some connection of this incident to "Godlessness" or abortion, you can bet your ass (why would anybody want to bet his ass. That's always puzzled me) that people like "Tin Nut" are going to suddenly drop the "this was an isolated incident" line.
And you can bet your ass that Pat Buchanan will try to connect this to abortion rights or Godlessness.
And of course when the cable news shows start looking for some connection of this incident to "Godlessness" or abortion, you can bet your ass (why would anybody want to bet his ass. That's always puzzled me) that people like "Tin Nut" are going to suddenly drop the "this was an isolated incident" line.
And you can bet your ass that Pat Buchanan will try to connect this to abortion rights or Godlessness.
BTW. Hasn't anybody noticed that EVERY TIME you read about some insane white woman killing her kids, her husbands always a "Christian" who's willing to "forgive her in the name of Jesus" like 5 minutes after it happened?
BTW. Hasn't anybody noticed that EVERY TIME you read about some insane white woman killing her kids, her husbands always a "Christian" who's willing to "forgive her in the name of Jesus" like 5 minutes after it happened?
Hecate--
My only response to that lovely poem is: did we ever have that Alexandria?
Are we mourning something that never was, except in a cherished ideal? Are we trying to build a castle in the air? I was always told that was okay, just don't try to move into it.
Seems to me "America" was always more pragmatic than that. Neither the shining city on the hill (what a burden!) nor the Promised Land (the natives who were here were quite content to share, until we decided to take it all for ourselves).
I'm wandering more than I meant to, but the hard question is: was this ever "America"? Or has it always been thus?
Got to get a handle on what we can handle, if you catch my meaning. (And if I go on any longer, I'll just be blogwhoring in some manner, so I'll leave it woefully incomplete; it's already inadequate).
Hecate--
My only response to that lovely poem is: did we ever have that Alexandria?
Are we mourning something that never was, except in a cherished ideal? Are we trying to build a castle in the air? I was always told that was okay, just don't try to move into it.
Seems to me "America" was always more pragmatic than that. Neither the shining city on the hill (what a burden!) nor the Promised Land (the natives who were here were quite content to share, until we decided to take it all for ourselves).
I'm wandering more than I meant to, but the hard question is: was this ever "America"? Or has it always been thus?
Got to get a handle on what we can handle, if you catch my meaning. (And if I go on any longer, I'll just be blogwhoring in some manner, so I'll leave it woefully incomplete; it's already inadequate).
This reminds me of the Andrea Yates case. Does anyone know if Rusty divorced Andrea? Does he have five more kids already?
This reminds me of the Andrea Yates case. Does anyone know if Rusty divorced Andrea? Does he have five more kids already?
And you can bet your ass that Pat Buchanan will try to connect this to abortion rights or Godlessness.
And the attack on xmas. Don't forget the concerted attack on xmas and the gay agenda to take over our children. Those added to the problem, too.
And you can bet your ass that Pat Buchanan will try to connect this to abortion rights or Godlessness.
And the attack on xmas. Don't forget the concerted attack on xmas and the gay agenda to take over our children. Those added to the problem, too.
Tin Nuts
Yes, my stannous testicled friend, I would love nothing more than to force your whining little ass to snort up a line of uranium oxide from DU and watch the effects on your pathetic little cowardly ass.
Tin Nuts
Yes, my stannous testicled friend, I would love nothing more than to force your whining little ass to snort up a line of uranium oxide from DU and watch the effects on your pathetic little cowardly ass.
Red Staters don't like being told they're just like everyone else. They take it as an insult. This is the very essence of the competitive spirit; if you aint better than someone else, you aint shit. Well, folks, you aint better than anuyone else, and you are shit.
Red Staters don't like being told they're just like everyone else. They take it as an insult. This is the very essence of the competitive spirit; if you aint better than someone else, you aint shit. Well, folks, you aint better than anuyone else, and you are shit.
Hecate - That Cavafy poem is heart-wrenching.
Ever read The Alexandria Quartet by Lawrence Durrell? He talks about Cavafy a lot in the quartet. Great books, BTW. I've read the Quartet 5 or so times now, though it's been quite awhile since the last time.
Highly recommended.
Hecate - That Cavafy poem is heart-wrenching.
Ever read The Alexandria Quartet by Lawrence Durrell? He talks about Cavafy a lot in the quartet. Great books, BTW. I've read the Quartet 5 or so times now, though it's been quite awhile since the last time.
Highly recommended.
Well, one political impact this is going to have you can see already over at Google News.
1200 stories in one day on the death of one woman.
Republicans Senators are fighting amongst themselves over whether the Secretary of Defense should lose his job for incompetently running a war he lied us into: 325 stories from over three days.
You know, I really thought all the people who said after the Peterson verdict that they'd find another pretty white pregnant dead girl to write about were being cynical.
Well, one political impact this is going to have you can see already over at Google News.
1200 stories in one day on the death of one woman.
Republicans Senators are fighting amongst themselves over whether the Secretary of Defense should lose his job for incompetently running a war he lied us into: 325 stories from over three days.
You know, I really thought all the people who said after the Peterson verdict that they'd find another pretty white pregnant dead girl to write about were being cynical.
My only response to that lovely poem is: did we ever have that Alexandria?
Robert M. Jeffers,
Very good question. I don't know the answer. Did Anthony every really have Alexandria? What that poem always says to me is: go ahead and face your loss face on. Don't try to pretend it's not so bad and don't try to blame yourself or your bad luck or whatever. Just face the loss and experience it completely. Even when it's too much to experience. That's how I feel about losing the America that I thought existed -- it's too much of a loss to experience, and yet, it's important to face that loss as fully as Cavafy wants Anthony to face his loss. The question, I suppose, is: How?
My only response to that lovely poem is: did we ever have that Alexandria?
Robert M. Jeffers,
Very good question. I don't know the answer. Did Anthony every really have Alexandria? What that poem always says to me is: go ahead and face your loss face on. Don't try to pretend it's not so bad and don't try to blame yourself or your bad luck or whatever. Just face the loss and experience it completely. Even when it's too much to experience. That's how I feel about losing the America that I thought existed -- it's too much of a loss to experience, and yet, it's important to face that loss as fully as Cavafy wants Anthony to face his loss. The question, I suppose, is: How?
Nowhere is Our Dear Soon-to-be-Retiring A.G., Crisco Johnny, more desperately needed.
Nowhere is Our Dear Soon-to-be-Retiring A.G., Crisco Johnny, more desperately needed.
Ever read The Alexandria Quartet by Lawrence Durrell?
Thanks, Tena. Been looking for something to read over Christmas (an old reflex from school days when the break meant time to read what I wanted to read).
I'll have to dig out Durrell and read the Quartet again. Been too long since the last time.
Ever read The Alexandria Quartet by Lawrence Durrell?
Thanks, Tena. Been looking for something to read over Christmas (an old reflex from school days when the break meant time to read what I wanted to read).
I'll have to dig out Durrell and read the Quartet again. Been too long since the last time.
Doozer - not only are the self-righteous just like everyone else, they seem particularly prone to believe whatever lies they are told.
I don't know what to call that - rationalization, shallowness, inability to come to grips with reality - I just don't know. But it's a fucking epidemic.
Doozer - not only are the self-righteous just like everyone else, they seem particularly prone to believe whatever lies they are told.
I don't know what to call that - rationalization, shallowness, inability to come to grips with reality - I just don't know. But it's a fucking epidemic.
"Where were you when the press blamed San Francisco for John Walker Lindh?"
I only recently discoved blogs, so to answer your question I was nowhere. I think its pretty stupid to blame berkely for what Jihad Johnny did, but I challenge you to find one republican who will justify what happened in Missouri. And Ill find probably thousands of morons who sympathize with Jihad Johnny.
Most of the dumb fucks here don't even understand Atrios retarded point anyway, they just figure this really is a "red state" thing.
Never even read Bobo before, but if he was going to somehow justify what happened, where is it in the article?
"Where were you when the press blamed San Francisco for John Walker Lindh?"
I only recently discoved blogs, so to answer your question I was nowhere. I think its pretty stupid to blame berkely for what Jihad Johnny did, but I challenge you to find one republican who will justify what happened in Missouri. And Ill find probably thousands of morons who sympathize with Jihad Johnny.
Most of the dumb fucks here don't even understand Atrios retarded point anyway, they just figure this really is a "red state" thing.
Never even read Bobo before, but if he was going to somehow justify what happened, where is it in the article?
i keep forgetting, is the slogan in the red states "Im moral values" or is it "Immoral values"?
i keep forgetting, is the slogan in the red states "Im moral values" or is it "Immoral values"?
Tena,
I haven't read that, but I'm definitely going to add it to my list. It sounds fascinating. When I finish this gd brief and can read again for fun.
Tena,
I haven't read that, but I'm definitely going to add it to my list. It sounds fascinating. When I finish this gd brief and can read again for fun.
Robert MJ - Best things Durrell wrote, IMO.
I once had a protracted argument over dinner with a doctor I didn't know well, over the order of the books in the Quartet. He got mad but I was right. I always took satisfaction in knowing that when he went home and checked he found out I was right. He insisted that Mountolive was the last book. Nope - it's Clea. Justine, Balthazaar, Mountolive and Clea. Take that, Dr. whoever you were.
Robert MJ - Best things Durrell wrote, IMO.
I once had a protracted argument over dinner with a doctor I didn't know well, over the order of the books in the Quartet. He got mad but I was right. I always took satisfaction in knowing that when he went home and checked he found out I was right. He insisted that Mountolive was the last book. Nope - it's Clea. Justine, Balthazaar, Mountolive and Clea. Take that, Dr. whoever you were.
Hecate - I know you, you'd love it. I can just tell. By all means, read it.
Hecate - I know you, you'd love it. I can just tell. By all means, read it.
spearNmagicHelmet,
I just love your handle.
spearNmagicHelmet,
I just love your handle.
Most of the dumb fucks here don't even understand Atrios retarded point anyway, they just figure this really is a "red state" thing.
No. You're assuming their reading comprehension skills are as bad as yours.
And Ill find probably thousands of morons who sympathize with Jihad Johnny.
Really? Where are all the "Free John Walker Lindh" rallies?
I've never seen one. I'm sure you have in between hits of crack but it's not reality.
Most of the dumb fucks here don't even understand Atrios retarded point anyway, they just figure this really is a "red state" thing.
No. You're assuming their reading comprehension skills are as bad as yours.
And Ill find probably thousands of morons who sympathize with Jihad Johnny.
Really? Where are all the "Free John Walker Lindh" rallies?
I've never seen one. I'm sure you have in between hits of crack but it's not reality.
That's how I feel about losing the America that I thought existed -- it's too much of a loss to experience, and yet, it's important to face that loss as fully as Cavafy wants Anthony to face his loss. The question, I suppose, is: How?
You're right. That is precisely the question.
BTW, Prior Aelred tells me you got some holiday rowan from the Abbey. Interesting to know we have something else in common besides Eschaton.
That's how I feel about losing the America that I thought existed -- it's too much of a loss to experience, and yet, it's important to face that loss as fully as Cavafy wants Anthony to face his loss. The question, I suppose, is: How?
You're right. That is precisely the question.
BTW, Prior Aelred tells me you got some holiday rowan from the Abbey. Interesting to know we have something else in common besides Eschaton.
A very similar incident happened in suburban Cleveland a few years back. The perpetrator "responded" to a car for sale ad (but knew the wife was pregnant). She ripped the fetus out with keys.
Anyway, it was around the same time that there was a string of suburban Cleveland area Catholic high school girls who dumped their newborn infants in the trash. and other sundry places.
I guess this poses a problem for bobo's world.
See, as suburban Cleveland is red state GOP territory, surely these women, as the woman in MO and the stoning and drowning women of Texas, were atypical women and suffer from unfortuante mental problems. Yes, they need to be punished, but we also must realize that they are human beings. And did I say not typical representatives of our fine red states?
But what if Ohio would have swung the other way by a mere percentage point or two, or, as some people believe, the votes were fairly counted?
Why then, in bobo's world, those Clevelanders would be typically immoral blue staters!
A very similar incident happened in suburban Cleveland a few years back. The perpetrator "responded" to a car for sale ad (but knew the wife was pregnant). She ripped the fetus out with keys.
Anyway, it was around the same time that there was a string of suburban Cleveland area Catholic high school girls who dumped their newborn infants in the trash. and other sundry places.
I guess this poses a problem for bobo's world.
See, as suburban Cleveland is red state GOP territory, surely these women, as the woman in MO and the stoning and drowning women of Texas, were atypical women and suffer from unfortuante mental problems. Yes, they need to be punished, but we also must realize that they are human beings. And did I say not typical representatives of our fine red states?
But what if Ohio would have swung the other way by a mere percentage point or two, or, as some people believe, the votes were fairly counted?
Why then, in bobo's world, those Clevelanders would be typically immoral blue staters!
I'm with RMJ - it's a horrifying aberration of human behavior, no more and no less. When a story like this emerges we must all remark it and abhor it and collectively shudder. There are no politics involved and no inference to be drawn when a single member of our species is deranged. I think we demean ourselves by projecting the possible spin the "opposition" may put on this. Let's just all say "ugh, how tragic" and move on.
I'm with RMJ - it's a horrifying aberration of human behavior, no more and no less. When a story like this emerges we must all remark it and abhor it and collectively shudder. There are no politics involved and no inference to be drawn when a single member of our species is deranged. I think we demean ourselves by projecting the possible spin the "opposition" may put on this. Let's just all say "ugh, how tragic" and move on.
A little late, but:
The demands of natalism
Fucking brilliant!
A little late, but:
The demands of natalism
Fucking brilliant!
There are no politics involved and no inference to be drawn when a single member of our species is deranged.
Well, apparently it's more than a "single" - sounds like a trend. In a part of the country with supposed deep "moral" values that is forever being held up as a shining beacon of good Christian virtues.
Don't even start me on the good Christian women drowning their babies in bathtubs...
There are no politics involved and no inference to be drawn when a single member of our species is deranged.
Well, apparently it's more than a "single" - sounds like a trend. In a part of the country with supposed deep "moral" values that is forever being held up as a shining beacon of good Christian virtues.
Don't even start me on the good Christian women drowning their babies in bathtubs...
I'm with RMJ - it's a horrifying aberration of human behavior,
Actually murder and brutality are the norm for human behavior.
I'm with RMJ - it's a horrifying aberration of human behavior,
Actually murder and brutality are the norm for human behavior.
Don't even start me on the good Christian women drowning their babies in bathtubs...
dave | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 11:55 am | #
Does anybody remember that incident in Oregon last Spring?
This woman murdered her child and they gave a series of interviews with her husband.
The man was nuts. Every other word was "Jesus this and Jesus that".
I'm sorry but there's a pattern here.
Don't even start me on the good Christian women drowning their babies in bathtubs...
dave | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 11:55 am | #
Does anybody remember that incident in Oregon last Spring?
This woman murdered her child and they gave a series of interviews with her husband.
The man was nuts. Every other word was "Jesus this and Jesus that".
I'm sorry but there's a pattern here.
ITHACA, N.Y. -- Nearly half of all Americans say the U.S. government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll.
And the rest of us as well. The next terra-ist attack (which are like deities; so useful that if one does not exist it gets invented) will end civil liberties in this land for the forseeable future. The GOP is our Monarchy now, world w/o end, amen.
I just hope it happens downwind of me and the Ms.
ITHACA, N.Y. -- Nearly half of all Americans say the U.S. government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll.
And the rest of us as well. The next terra-ist attack (which are like deities; so useful that if one does not exist it gets invented) will end civil liberties in this land for the forseeable future. The GOP is our Monarchy now, world w/o end, amen.
I just hope it happens downwind of me and the Ms.
BTW, Prior Aelred tells me you got some holiday rowan from the Abbey.
Robert M. Jeffers,
I did -- and it was really one of the nicest gifts I've ever gotten! The rowan twigs are on my altar right now. Did you know that you can see a pentagram inside the rowan berry? And that witches make a jelly from the berry that's a good cure for colds?
Tell Prior Aelred that I sent something fattening to him and to Father William!
BTW, Prior Aelred tells me you got some holiday rowan from the Abbey.
Robert M. Jeffers,
I did -- and it was really one of the nicest gifts I've ever gotten! The rowan twigs are on my altar right now. Did you know that you can see a pentagram inside the rowan berry? And that witches make a jelly from the berry that's a good cure for colds?
Tell Prior Aelred that I sent something fattening to him and to Father William!
i hope the sun explodes before the baby/kid grows up and finds out what happened
i hope the sun explodes before the baby/kid grows up and finds out what happened
One of the most delightful times I ever had was combining my reading of the Alexandria Quartet with Gerald Durrell's (brother of Edward) book My Family and Other Animals. Gerald chronicles the Durrell family's life on the island of Corfu when all of the Durrells were young and living with their adventurous mother. He was mad for animals and collected a zoo of native creatures for pets - geckos, turtles, birds, etc. He was considerably younger than Edward and completely absorbed by his own interests. His asides in the book about his more intellectual brother and his brother's literary friends humanized Edward Durrell. It's a slim volume, suitable even for juvenile readers. Enjoy it sometime.
One of the most delightful times I ever had was combining my reading of the Alexandria Quartet with Gerald Durrell's (brother of Edward) book My Family and Other Animals. Gerald chronicles the Durrell family's life on the island of Corfu when all of the Durrells were young and living with their adventurous mother. He was mad for animals and collected a zoo of native creatures for pets - geckos, turtles, birds, etc. He was considerably younger than Edward and completely absorbed by his own interests. His asides in the book about his more intellectual brother and his brother's literary friends humanized Edward Durrell. It's a slim volume, suitable even for juvenile readers. Enjoy it sometime.
Last night on Michael Savage's radio program, he was blaming liberals for this.
Last night on Michael Savage's radio program, he was blaming liberals for this.
BTW, my holiday reading suggestion is V for Vendetta.
It fits perfectly...
BTW, my holiday reading suggestion is V for Vendetta.
It fits perfectly...
dave,
you mean the stoning and drowning women of Texas?
yup, its hard work being a mother who is trapped into a world where everyone, including your husband, demands that your entire world revolve around raising good christian children.
unfortunately, this results in some mother's making a mental break.
dave,
you mean the stoning and drowning women of Texas?
yup, its hard work being a mother who is trapped into a world where everyone, including your husband, demands that your entire world revolve around raising good christian children.
unfortunately, this results in some mother's making a mental break.
You liberals just hate hate hate America so much. You have no morals and biased media, too. We are taking our country back and you can't stand it! Boo hoo!
You liberals just hate hate hate America so much. You have no morals and biased media, too. We are taking our country back and you can't stand it! Boo hoo!
Most of the dumb fucks here don't even understand Atrios retarded point anyway, they just figure this really is a "red state" thing.
"No. You're assuming their reading comprehension skills are as bad as yours"
Tell that to comrade dumfuck Hecate.
Hecate "Well, American, keep on telling women that they can't be "complete" w/o babies and a man. I'm sure that'll work out just great for you any century now."
SWR- "Really? Where are all the "Free John Walker Lindh" rallies? I've never seen one."
http://www.freejohnwalker.net/
http://www.samsloan.com/lindh.htm
http://www.lewrockwell.com/stein...in/
stein13.html
http://www.motherjones.com/news/.../11/
11_402.html
Will you dumbfucks use anything for a political cheap shot. Are there no limits
It really is sick. Too bad you don't see that.
Most of the dumb fucks here don't even understand Atrios retarded point anyway, they just figure this really is a "red state" thing.
"No. You're assuming their reading comprehension skills are as bad as yours"
Tell that to comrade dumfuck Hecate.
Hecate "Well, American, keep on telling women that they can't be "complete" w/o babies and a man. I'm sure that'll work out just great for you any century now."
SWR- "Really? Where are all the "Free John Walker Lindh" rallies? I've never seen one."
http://www.freejohnwalker.net/
http://www.samsloan.com/lindh.htm
http://www.lewrockwell.com/stein...in/
stein13.html
http://www.motherjones.com/news/.../11/
11_402.html
Will you dumbfucks use anything for a political cheap shot. Are there no limits
It really is sick. Too bad you don't see that.
mag - Thank you for that - I had no idea that Durrell had a brother who wrote. I will get enamored of an author and read everything he or she has written. I've always done that, so I had my Durrell mania phase years ago.
But I'll look for the book by Edward. It sounds fascinating. I really know little about Lawrence, except that he was friends with Henry Miller and that he had a daughter he named Sappho, which is a beautiful, but kind of unfortunate, name. She committed suicide. I never have been able to determine exactly what the relationship was between Lawrence Durrell and his daughter, but it is suspicious.
I think I'd rather no know.
mag - Thank you for that - I had no idea that Durrell had a brother who wrote. I will get enamored of an author and read everything he or she has written. I've always done that, so I had my Durrell mania phase years ago.
But I'll look for the book by Edward. It sounds fascinating. I really know little about Lawrence, except that he was friends with Henry Miller and that he had a daughter he named Sappho, which is a beautiful, but kind of unfortunate, name. She committed suicide. I never have been able to determine exactly what the relationship was between Lawrence Durrell and his daughter, but it is suspicious.
I think I'd rather no know.
I'm sorry but there's a pattern here.
SWR
The freaks are already blaming liberals for this and when we're forced out of Iraq, the wing will fart all over themselves blaming liberals for eternity. They're crazy and I'm getting the fuck out. I'm not going to live like this the rest of my life.
I'm sorry but there's a pattern here.
SWR
The freaks are already blaming liberals for this and when we're forced out of Iraq, the wing will fart all over themselves blaming liberals for eternity. They're crazy and I'm getting the fuck out. I'm not going to live like this the rest of my life.
Oh, and just to clarify, for our Trollish friends (hey, it's almost Christmas, WTF); "Red Staters" refers not to denizens of any particular state. Red and Blue are states of mind, these days. If the states were actually that markedly different in theeir politics, the Balkanization of America would already have begun. Some, of course, would say it has, but I think that's a bit premature.
Oh, and just to clarify, for our Trollish friends (hey, it's almost Christmas, WTF); "Red Staters" refers not to denizens of any particular state. Red and Blue are states of mind, these days. If the states were actually that markedly different in theeir politics, the Balkanization of America would already have begun. Some, of course, would say it has, but I think that's a bit premature.
What does this horrible act have to do with Bobo? Atrios, you are unhinged.
Robert Jeffers:
Time to read Langston Hughes'
< a href ="http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/Langston_Hughes/2385">Let America Be America Again.
What does this horrible act have to do with Bobo? Atrios, you are unhinged.
Robert Jeffers:
Time to read Langston Hughes'
< a href ="http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/Langston_Hughes/2385">Let America Be America Again.
Oh, and if you, Robert, or anyone, knows who was the model for the character Pursewarden (the successful author in the book whom Justine may or may not have been involved with) I'd love to know who it is. All the characters are based on real people.
Oh, and if you, Robert, or anyone, knows who was the model for the character Pursewarden (the successful author in the book whom Justine may or may not have been involved with) I'd love to know who it is. All the characters are based on real people.
Will you dumbfucks use anything for a political cheap shot. Are there no limits
It really is sick. Too bad you don't see that.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:03 pm | #
So you're saying that "liberal values" are in some way responsible for John Walker Lindh.
It took you a half hours worth of Googline just to prove my point?
Who really is the dumb fuck here?
But just keep an eye out. I guarantee you your friends in the "Pro Life" movement are going to blame this on abortion.
Will you dumbfucks use anything for a political cheap shot. Are there no limits
It really is sick. Too bad you don't see that.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:03 pm | #
So you're saying that "liberal values" are in some way responsible for John Walker Lindh.
It took you a half hours worth of Googline just to prove my point?
Who really is the dumb fuck here?
But just keep an eye out. I guarantee you your friends in the "Pro Life" movement are going to blame this on abortion.
~ahem~ You know, I really should, at the very least, skim over what I'm about to post.
rather: wing nuts
~ahem~ You know, I really should, at the very least, skim over what I'm about to post.
rather: wing nuts
I'm not going to live in the Land of the Lunatics my entire life.
I'm not going to live in the Land of the Lunatics my entire life.
Funny. The troll Googled for 30 minutes and he didn't even find a "Free John Walker Lindh" rally.
Just a few articles on a few websites writing about the issue.
It seems for our trollish friend that even discussing the issue is the equivalent of holding a "Free John Walker Lindh" rally.
Dumb trolls.
Funny. The troll Googled for 30 minutes and he didn't even find a "Free John Walker Lindh" rally.
Just a few articles on a few websites writing about the issue.
It seems for our trollish friend that even discussing the issue is the equivalent of holding a "Free John Walker Lindh" rally.
Dumb trolls.
Tena -
Oops. Gerald Durrell is the writer of My Family and other Animals. Of course it is Lawrence Durrell who wrote Alexandria Quartet. Not enough coffee and too many years past Modern British Lit!
Tena -
Oops. Gerald Durrell is the writer of My Family and other Animals. Of course it is Lawrence Durrell who wrote Alexandria Quartet. Not enough coffee and too many years past Modern British Lit!
SWR; Is Googline in any way similar to Choogline?
SWR; Is Googline in any way similar to Choogline?
They're not worth it, folks. Check out something I read on Bartcop.com website.
hold.....
They're not worth it, folks. Check out something I read on Bartcop.com website.
hold.....
Here's what our good friend Andrew Sullivan thinks about John Walker Lindh.
Americans are just beginning to grapple with the extraordinary story of John Walker Lindh from Marin County, California and Johnny Spann from Alabama. Not so long ago, the press was full of analysis of an evenly divided country exposed so starkly in the last election: the vast swath of Republican America in the center of the country and the more liberal and cosmopolitan coasts and big cities. Before the red, white and blue of the terrorism war there was the red and blue of the culture war. The story of Walker and Spann is in some ways a story of both - of the interplay of patriotism and culture, faith and fate.
Here's what our good friend Andrew Sullivan thinks about John Walker Lindh.
Americans are just beginning to grapple with the extraordinary story of John Walker Lindh from Marin County, California and Johnny Spann from Alabama. Not so long ago, the press was full of analysis of an evenly divided country exposed so starkly in the last election: the vast swath of Republican America in the center of the country and the more liberal and cosmopolitan coasts and big cities. Before the red, white and blue of the terrorism war there was the red and blue of the culture war. The story of Walker and Spann is in some ways a story of both - of the interplay of patriotism and culture, faith and fate.
SWR - the trolls are not going to get this, you know. It's far too subtle for them.
SWR - the trolls are not going to get this, you know. It's far too subtle for them.
"So you're saying that "liberal values" are in some way responsible for John Walker Lindh. "
Moron, you brought up Lindh, remember? I gave you links. Geez
"So you're saying that "liberal values" are in some way responsible for John Walker Lindh. "
Moron, you brought up Lindh, remember? I gave you links. Geez
holy crap... i just saw off the wire a story about a one nurse being decapitated and another stabbed... they worked in a psychiatric institution in France.
holy crap... i just saw off the wire a story about a one nurse being decapitated and another stabbed... they worked in a psychiatric institution in France.
The general point is that people in the red states talking about their "moral" superiority to those of us in the blue states don't see what you're saying.
You've misunderstood.
In the red states, when someone does something wrong, it's because they haven't found Jesus.
Or if they have found Jesus, they misplaced him for awhile, and will soon find him again.
The general point is that people in the red states talking about their "moral" superiority to those of us in the blue states don't see what you're saying.
You've misunderstood.
In the red states, when someone does something wrong, it's because they haven't found Jesus.
Or if they have found Jesus, they misplaced him for awhile, and will soon find him again.
This is exactly the way I feel about it.
It's from Bartcop.com
This is exactly the way I feel about it.
It's from Bartcop.com
"SWR - the trolls are not going to get this, you know. It's far too subtle for them."
Tena, show SWR some respect. He's not nearly as dense as your are.
"SWR - the trolls are not going to get this, you know. It's far too subtle for them."
Tena, show SWR some respect. He's not nearly as dense as your are.
Moron, you brought up Lindh, remember? I gave you links. Geez
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:11 pm | #
You gave me a link to a Mother Jones article about Lindh that merely discusses the issue.
And I gave you a link to an Andrew Sullivan article blaming liberalism for John Walker Lindh.
Where's Andrew Sullivan every time some "Christian" woman drowns her kids in a bathub?
Moron, you brought up Lindh, remember? I gave you links. Geez
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:11 pm | #
You gave me a link to a Mother Jones article about Lindh that merely discusses the issue.
And I gave you a link to an Andrew Sullivan article blaming liberalism for John Walker Lindh.
Where's Andrew Sullivan every time some "Christian" woman drowns her kids in a bathub?
Tena, show SWR some respect. He's not nearly as dense as your are.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:13 pm | #
Haven't you noticed that Christians and conservatives in general love to play people off against one another like this?
Tena, show SWR some respect. He's not nearly as dense as your are.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:13 pm | #
Haven't you noticed that Christians and conservatives in general love to play people off against one another like this?
OT, but Gilliard points us to the aptly-named Rudepundit, who explains it all for you:
Bernard Kerik is a motherfucking thug, a lump of steaming shit who got where he is from tough guy looks, a G. Gordon Liddy moustache, and an oath of fealty to that other wad of fuck, Rudy Giuliani (who hopefully has been forever tarnished). And it's all, all falling out now. All the dirty connections, the acceptance of unreported cash "gifts" (didn't we used to call that a "bribe," "extortion," or at least "graft"?), and more, so much more, going back to his time "cleaning up" Riker's Island. Let's not forget about the ties to Taser, so enriched by selling to the Departments of Homeland Security and Defense. And Kerik claimed a "nanny" problem? Man, that's like a syphilitic hooker with crabs and genital warts telling you she can't fuck you because she has a cracked fingernail...
OT, but Gilliard points us to the aptly-named Rudepundit, who explains it all for you:
Bernard Kerik is a motherfucking thug, a lump of steaming shit who got where he is from tough guy looks, a G. Gordon Liddy moustache, and an oath of fealty to that other wad of fuck, Rudy Giuliani (who hopefully has been forever tarnished). And it's all, all falling out now. All the dirty connections, the acceptance of unreported cash "gifts" (didn't we used to call that a "bribe," "extortion," or at least "graft"?), and more, so much more, going back to his time "cleaning up" Riker's Island. Let's not forget about the ties to Taser, so enriched by selling to the Departments of Homeland Security and Defense. And Kerik claimed a "nanny" problem? Man, that's like a syphilitic hooker with crabs and genital warts telling you she can't fuck you because she has a cracked fingernail...
mag - I got that - maybe I wasn't reading too closely, but I gleaned from your comment that Gerald wrote about their childhood.
mag - I got that - maybe I wasn't reading too closely, but I gleaned from your comment that Gerald wrote about their childhood.
Where's Andrew Sullivan every time some "Christian" woman drowns her kids in a bathub?
Oh, so your saying christians advocate drowning children.
Fun. Your turn.
Where's Andrew Sullivan every time some "Christian" woman drowns her kids in a bathub?
Oh, so your saying christians advocate drowning children.
Fun. Your turn.
John Walker Lindh? Did someone find an old talking points blastfax lying around the boilerroom lunchroom this morning?
Anyhoo: ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
John Walker Lindh? Did someone find an old talking points blastfax lying around the boilerroom lunchroom this morning?
Anyhoo: ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Where's Andrew Sullivan every time some "Christian" woman drowns her kids in a bathub?
Where's Andrew Sullivan every time some "Christian" woman drowns her kids in a bathub?
anyways
anyways
And remember, kids: every day is "Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks" Day!
And remember, kids: every day is "Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks" Day!
I hate you, Haloscan.
Where's Andrew Sullivan every time some "Christian" woman drowns her kids in a bathub?
Probably off scratching his butt on national tv and failing to pay his taxes?
I hate you, Haloscan.
Where's Andrew Sullivan every time some "Christian" woman drowns her kids in a bathub?
Probably off scratching his butt on national tv and failing to pay his taxes?
Upon the receipt of news such as that regarding the strange events in Kansas, I find it useful to remember that humans--inasmuch as we are indeed animals--always seem to find ways to make other animals look good by comparison...
Anyone needing to--or merely desirous of--connect with their truly noble inner beast should read Gavin Maxwell's loving memoir of living alongside a pair of otters, Ring of Bright Water... I also recommend Barry Lopez' Never Cry Wolf, and of course virtually any book by Farley Mowatt...
Upon the receipt of news such as that regarding the strange events in Kansas, I find it useful to remember that humans--inasmuch as we are indeed animals--always seem to find ways to make other animals look good by comparison...
Anyone needing to--or merely desirous of--connect with their truly noble inner beast should read Gavin Maxwell's loving memoir of living alongside a pair of otters, Ring of Bright Water... I also recommend Barry Lopez' Never Cry Wolf, and of course virtually any book by Farley Mowatt...
Oh, so your saying christians advocate drowning children.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:16 pm | #
Only if they live in Iraq.
Oh, so your saying christians advocate drowning children.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:16 pm | #
Only if they live in Iraq.
Haven't you noticed that Christians and conservatives in general love to play people off against one another like this?
Yeah. And what's even funnier is that the trolls around here never seem to figure out that it doesn't work on this blog.
Haven't you noticed that Christians and conservatives in general love to play people off against one another like this?
Yeah. And what's even funnier is that the trolls around here never seem to figure out that it doesn't work on this blog.
SWR - Yes, and I've noticed how they say things like "He's not nearly as dense as your are," too.
Yo, troll - Tell me about dense, sweetheart -
SWR - Yes, and I've noticed how they say things like "He's not nearly as dense as your are," too.
Yo, troll - Tell me about dense, sweetheart -
Probably off scratching his butt on national tv and failing to pay his taxes?
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:17 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
I almost wish Sullivan hadn't turned into a liberal a few months ago.
The "I think Bernie Kerik is sexy" articles would have been priceless.
Probably off scratching his butt on national tv and failing to pay his taxes?
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:17 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
I almost wish Sullivan hadn't turned into a liberal a few months ago.
The "I think Bernie Kerik is sexy" articles would have been priceless.
"Only if they live in Iraq."
Game, set, match.
"Only if they live in Iraq."
Game, set, match.
You liberals just hate hate hate America so much. You have no morals and biased media, too. We are taking our country back and you can't stand it! Boo hoo!
Free American Liberty Fan
You know, when I see a comment like this, here and elsewhere, I never know quite what to make of it. Is it for real? Is it a Troll? (Going back here to the original meaning; one who posts errant bullshit for the express purpose of angering his/her readers). How on Earth can anyone be stupid enough to believe liberals "hate hate hate America", and still operate a computer? On the other hand, one should never underestimate the power of Stupidity. I mean, look at Washington DC these days.
You liberals just hate hate hate America so much. You have no morals and biased media, too. We are taking our country back and you can't stand it! Boo hoo!
Free American Liberty Fan
You know, when I see a comment like this, here and elsewhere, I never know quite what to make of it. Is it for real? Is it a Troll? (Going back here to the original meaning; one who posts errant bullshit for the express purpose of angering his/her readers). How on Earth can anyone be stupid enough to believe liberals "hate hate hate America", and still operate a computer? On the other hand, one should never underestimate the power of Stupidity. I mean, look at Washington DC these days.
Game, set, match.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:20 pm | #
So you care about all of the civilians we've murdered in Iraq?
See you at the next anti-war rally. Bring some drugs and some Bibles to burn. We liberals love doing that.
Game, set, match.
Tin Nut | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:20 pm | #
So you care about all of the civilians we've murdered in Iraq?
See you at the next anti-war rally. Bring some drugs and some Bibles to burn. We liberals love doing that.
Well, the Assemblies of God are telling their membership some kind of something because 3 - count them - 3 Texas Assembly of God mothers have murdered their children for Jaysus.
Now who's fucked up?
I don't see a lot of stories about liberals murdering their children for agnosticism or atheism or Unitarianism.
Well, the Assemblies of God are telling their membership some kind of something because 3 - count them - 3 Texas Assembly of God mothers have murdered their children for Jaysus.
Now who's fucked up?
I don't see a lot of stories about liberals murdering their children for agnosticism or atheism or Unitarianism.
Attn Konopelli...
I, also, agree that Gonzales should be opposed but I sadly think we are all urinating into a pretty stiff corporate wind.
Of course the toob will show the occasional midsirected tut-tutter while dazzling our senses with gruesome, gorge-raising tales ala "foetus ripped from womb".
The ball is languishing in the DEM side of the court where it has rested since the fake scream nailed Dr. Dean. Some say... the game's fixed but I can't care 'cuse my friend the TeeVee is showing that soft-core porn I've grown to love...got any fat-free chips or Enzyte?
Attn Konopelli...
I, also, agree that Gonzales should be opposed but I sadly think we are all urinating into a pretty stiff corporate wind.
Of course the toob will show the occasional midsirected tut-tutter while dazzling our senses with gruesome, gorge-raising tales ala "foetus ripped from womb".
The ball is languishing in the DEM side of the court where it has rested since the fake scream nailed Dr. Dean. Some say... the game's fixed but I can't care 'cuse my friend the TeeVee is showing that soft-core porn I've grown to love...got any fat-free chips or Enzyte?
Well....isn't THIS the home of some wonderfully sanctimonious blowhards. For a group of supposed "intellectuals" we certainly are full of ourselves with a wave of sweeping generalizations which obviously make a few of us feel superior.
Get a life people. This story involved a seriously mentally ill individual.....do her actions reflect the lifestyle, beliefs, etc. of an entire state or region? Hardly.
Our here in California, we got Scott Peterson, and we have the Helzers, just found guilty of murder and sentenced to death for killing and dismembering people in hopes of getting their inheritance. Does that make all of us Blue Staters guilty for supporting marijana smoking, drug taking, free love and the degenerate hippie lifestyle.
Gimme a break and let's get discussions on a MUCH higher plane than this one......this is idiocy.
Well....isn't THIS the home of some wonderfully sanctimonious blowhards. For a group of supposed "intellectuals" we certainly are full of ourselves with a wave of sweeping generalizations which obviously make a few of us feel superior.
Get a life people. This story involved a seriously mentally ill individual.....do her actions reflect the lifestyle, beliefs, etc. of an entire state or region? Hardly.
Our here in California, we got Scott Peterson, and we have the Helzers, just found guilty of murder and sentenced to death for killing and dismembering people in hopes of getting their inheritance. Does that make all of us Blue Staters guilty for supporting marijana smoking, drug taking, free love and the degenerate hippie lifestyle.
Gimme a break and let's get discussions on a MUCH higher plane than this one......this is idiocy.
I don't see a lot of stories about liberals murdering their children for agnosticism or atheism or Unitarianism.
Tena | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:22 pm | #
Yeah. Point me to stories about secular Jewish or Episcopalian women drowing their kids on the upper West Side.
It doesn't happen. There's something about fundy wingnut culture that just makes certain women snap.
I don't see a lot of stories about liberals murdering their children for agnosticism or atheism or Unitarianism.
Tena | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:22 pm | #
Yeah. Point me to stories about secular Jewish or Episcopalian women drowing their kids on the upper West Side.
It doesn't happen. There's something about fundy wingnut culture that just makes certain women snap.
This lady is not like Andrea Yates. Andrea Yates did not try to cover up her crime. This woman knew what she did was criminal and then lied in a lame attempt to cover her actions. That, to me shows true criminal intent and not insanity.
This lady is not like Andrea Yates. Andrea Yates did not try to cover up her crime. This woman knew what she did was criminal and then lied in a lame attempt to cover her actions. That, to me shows true criminal intent and not insanity.
Also seen at Rudepundit, from the comments section of a post on being sick of Christianity:
My brother, sister and I were introduced to born-again Christianity in our youth. My brother embraced more than just faith in Christ, however, and structured his entire life (and later, that of his family) to suit the evangelical Christian worldview. From birth his three sons, my nephews, were indocrinated in many of the more absurd (though purportedly harmless) aspects of that worldview: the boys were largely home-schooled, taught that evolution was baloney, prohibited from watching The Wizard of Oz or Fantasia (witchcraft, see?). Tragicomically, while spending time with my sister on vacation, the boys asked her to remove a box of Count Chocula cereal from the home to protect them from demons.
Where did it all lead? This year, thirty-five years down the road from its roots in Bible studies and prayer meetings and seemingly innocuous Young Life sing-a-longs, their twisted, repressed, demented and hypocritical "faith" has left my brother and his family shattered:
The eldest boy is avoiding his family and living "in sin" with his girlfriend. (My sister in-law, still brain-deep in cult denial, refuses to believe he's sexually active.) His story is a relief, because...
His youngest brother is in jail in Virginia, awaiting trial for armed robbery. It turns out he's been dealing drugs from their home since the age of 10. His circumstance would strain most families; but the real tradgedy is the price paid by the middle child, my favorite nephew, one of the kindest, gentlest souls I have known. He's dead.
A brilliant thinker, but depressed and completely socially withdrawn, torn by the failure of his parent's marriage grown bitter, unable to reconcile the parent-sponsored dogma that without God life is meaningless from his growing certainty that he'd been lied to, that there WAS no such god, and unable to live with the contradiction, obliterated himself this earlier this year.
He ran--literally, on foot, ran--headlong into a freight train. He was weary of the life his parents had given him.
I am not weary of Christ. I am weary of so-called Christianity. It is insanity.
Also seen at Rudepundit, from the comments section of a post on being sick of Christianity:
My brother, sister and I were introduced to born-again Christianity in our youth. My brother embraced more than just faith in Christ, however, and structured his entire life (and later, that of his family) to suit the evangelical Christian worldview. From birth his three sons, my nephews, were indocrinated in many of the more absurd (though purportedly harmless) aspects of that worldview: the boys were largely home-schooled, taught that evolution was baloney, prohibited from watching The Wizard of Oz or Fantasia (witchcraft, see?). Tragicomically, while spending time with my sister on vacation, the boys asked her to remove a box of Count Chocula cereal from the home to protect them from demons.
Where did it all lead? This year, thirty-five years down the road from its roots in Bible studies and prayer meetings and seemingly innocuous Young Life sing-a-longs, their twisted, repressed, demented and hypocritical "faith" has left my brother and his family shattered:
The eldest boy is avoiding his family and living "in sin" with his girlfriend. (My sister in-law, still brain-deep in cult denial, refuses to believe he's sexually active.) His story is a relief, because...
His youngest brother is in jail in Virginia, awaiting trial for armed robbery. It turns out he's been dealing drugs from their home since the age of 10. His circumstance would strain most families; but the real tradgedy is the price paid by the middle child, my favorite nephew, one of the kindest, gentlest souls I have known. He's dead.
A brilliant thinker, but depressed and completely socially withdrawn, torn by the failure of his parent's marriage grown bitter, unable to reconcile the parent-sponsored dogma that without God life is meaningless from his growing certainty that he'd been lied to, that there WAS no such god, and unable to live with the contradiction, obliterated himself this earlier this year.
He ran--literally, on foot, ran--headlong into a freight train. He was weary of the life his parents had given him.
I am not weary of Christ. I am weary of so-called Christianity. It is insanity.
Ring of Bright Water
OK, that's two books I've had to add to the list in one morning. Reading this blog is not helping my addiction to books. So many books, so much time wasted at work...
Ring of Bright Water
OK, that's two books I've had to add to the list in one morning. Reading this blog is not helping my addiction to books. So many books, so much time wasted at work...
We are taking our country back...Free American Liberty Fan
You're welcome to come down to Albuquerque and try to take it 'back' from me in person; i know a few folks who'll hold your coat...i don't like your chances, though.
We are taking our country back...Free American Liberty Fan
You're welcome to come down to Albuquerque and try to take it 'back' from me in person; i know a few folks who'll hold your coat...i don't like your chances, though.
I wonder how are troll would explain the fact that the lowest divorce rate in the country is in Massachussetts and that the highest murder rates are all in the South.
Waiting for troll, tapping foot....
I wonder how are troll would explain the fact that the lowest divorce rate in the country is in Massachussetts and that the highest murder rates are all in the South.
Waiting for troll, tapping foot....
Game, set--
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zz...
Game, set--
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zz...
"Yeah. And what's even funnier is that the trolls around here never seem to figure out that it doesn't work on this blog."
Yeah, pointing out your comrades knack for the obvious causes no offense here, I didnt expect it to.
Talk about shitty comprehension skills.
"Yeah. And what's even funnier is that the trolls around here never seem to figure out that it doesn't work on this blog."
Yeah, pointing out your comrades knack for the obvious causes no offense here, I didnt expect it to.
Talk about shitty comprehension skills.
No Jesus, no baby.
Know Jesus, know baby.
No Jesus, no baby.
Know Jesus, know baby.
Hey troll. What do you think of this?
Hey troll. What do you think of this?
holy crap... i just saw off the wire a story about a one nurse being decapitated and another stabbed... they worked in a psychiatric institution in France.
smarty jones
Ooh, One crashed and burned in the Cuckoo's nest...
holy crap... i just saw off the wire a story about a one nurse being decapitated and another stabbed... they worked in a psychiatric institution in France.
smarty jones
Ooh, One crashed and burned in the Cuckoo's nest...
dweb, idiocy! not really.
we aren't any better than anyone else, just pointing out that noone else is better than us. this is what people are getting away with... that it is somehow o.k. to state that people in certain places (i.e. nice white christian folk) are more moral than us.
plus, as I said earlier, it cannot be denied that the pressures placed upon women who live in a culture where the expectations are that women dedicate their lives 100% to raising nice Christian children can be overwhelming, and at times result in deadly consequences.
sad. but true.
dweb, idiocy! not really.
we aren't any better than anyone else, just pointing out that noone else is better than us. this is what people are getting away with... that it is somehow o.k. to state that people in certain places (i.e. nice white christian folk) are more moral than us.
plus, as I said earlier, it cannot be denied that the pressures placed upon women who live in a culture where the expectations are that women dedicate their lives 100% to raising nice Christian children can be overwhelming, and at times result in deadly consequences.
sad. but true.
Screw this. This country really is coming apart at the seams, and it is time we all looked this fact square in the face, Red and Blue alike. For damn sure it's time for us here in California to go. Secession is the only answer. And maybe not even the whole state, since everything east of the Coast Ranges is pretty darn red. Maybe just the coast. We'll look like Chile, a narrow coastal strip of a country, but at least we'll be free of Bush and his Jesus-licking supporters.
Screw this. This country really is coming apart at the seams, and it is time we all looked this fact square in the face, Red and Blue alike. For damn sure it's time for us here in California to go. Secession is the only answer. And maybe not even the whole state, since everything east of the Coast Ranges is pretty darn red. Maybe just the coast. We'll look like Chile, a narrow coastal strip of a country, but at least we'll be free of Bush and his Jesus-licking supporters.
Yeah, pointing out your comrades knack for the obvious causes no offense here, I didnt expect it to.
What you want here, sweetie, is a semicolon. It's the little symbol on your keyboard that looks like this: ;
You use it this way: Yeah, pointing out your comrades' knack for the obvious causes no offense here; I didn't expect it to.
Once you've learned how to use your friend the semicolon, we'll talk about your friend the apostrophe and how it can be used to show ownership.
Yeah, pointing out your comrades knack for the obvious causes no offense here, I didnt expect it to.
What you want here, sweetie, is a semicolon. It's the little symbol on your keyboard that looks like this: ;
You use it this way: Yeah, pointing out your comrades' knack for the obvious causes no offense here; I didn't expect it to.
Once you've learned how to use your friend the semicolon, we'll talk about your friend the apostrophe and how it can be used to show ownership.
Tin Nut,
Out of the mainstream?
Then why have 20 men from the Bronx died in Iraq. New York has lost something like 15 men in the last month.
No, my troll, it is you who are out of the mainstream with your rote, meaningless patriotism.
Tin Nut,
Out of the mainstream?
Then why have 20 men from the Bronx died in Iraq. New York has lost something like 15 men in the last month.
No, my troll, it is you who are out of the mainstream with your rote, meaningless patriotism.
I heard in one of the early press briefings some reporter asking if it was two women who did this. Ah the fun the wingers were going to have if there were lesbians involved! But since it was one of their own the "isolated incident" approach will probably win out.
I heard in one of the early press briefings some reporter asking if it was two women who did this. Ah the fun the wingers were going to have if there were lesbians involved! But since it was one of their own the "isolated incident" approach will probably win out.
The general point is that people in the red states talking about their "moral" superiority to those of us in the blue state"s don't see what you're saying."
I don't think even the most rabid red-state Republican has tried to claim that the red states are uterrly free of crimes, or even free of gruesome crimes.
I hate to say it, but trying to link this to "red-state politics" sounds like the sort of thing Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin would do (and probaby are doing right now) for the other side.
The general point is that people in the red states talking about their "moral" superiority to those of us in the blue state"s don't see what you're saying."
I don't think even the most rabid red-state Republican has tried to claim that the red states are uterrly free of crimes, or even free of gruesome crimes.
I hate to say it, but trying to link this to "red-state politics" sounds like the sort of thing Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin would do (and probaby are doing right now) for the other side.
"
Once you've learned how to use your friend the semicolon, we'll talk about your friend the apostrophe and how it can be used to show ownership.
Hecate"
Oh man, I feel so paranoid now. Yep, there is that rising blood pressure, the fear of proper punctuation. I am having flash backs to high school. Performance anxiety, it isn't just a concept on Sex in the City
"
Once you've learned how to use your friend the semicolon, we'll talk about your friend the apostrophe and how it can be used to show ownership.
Hecate"
Oh man, I feel so paranoid now. Yep, there is that rising blood pressure, the fear of proper punctuation. I am having flash backs to high school. Performance anxiety, it isn't just a concept on Sex in the City
Hecate, everyone knows resorting to grammar lessons is beyond lame. Since you've heen allowed to host threads here, I think Atrios should really be embarrassed.
Hecate, everyone knows resorting to grammar lessons is beyond lame. Since you've heen allowed to host threads here, I think Atrios should really be embarrassed.
This woman knew what she did was criminal and then lied in a lame attempt to cover her actions. That, to me shows true criminal intent and not insanity.
esther
Lying to cover up one's actions is not necessarily proof of guilty knowledge. Hannibal lecter, if he were real, would lie like a rug to get you off his back (or onto his dinner table) and out of his face. A psycho, or sufficiently disturbed person, may know you think he/she did wrong, and that's enough. You don't have to feel guilty to lie; you just have to want to be let alone.
This woman knew what she did was criminal and then lied in a lame attempt to cover her actions. That, to me shows true criminal intent and not insanity.
esther
Lying to cover up one's actions is not necessarily proof of guilty knowledge. Hannibal lecter, if he were real, would lie like a rug to get you off his back (or onto his dinner table) and out of his face. A psycho, or sufficiently disturbed person, may know you think he/she did wrong, and that's enough. You don't have to feel guilty to lie; you just have to want to be let alone.
Bush was re-elected by getting millions of fundies and evangelicals who are not able to think for themselves to follow him. Jerry, Pat and James can go fuck themselves. They have nothing to brag about. People are sicker than ever out there, thanks to them.
Bush was re-elected by getting millions of fundies and evangelicals who are not able to think for themselves to follow him. Jerry, Pat and James can go fuck themselves. They have nothing to brag about. People are sicker than ever out there, thanks to them.
Did I read that the woman who did the crime already had 7 kids? Double checked, it was in the NY Daily News. But the poor thing had just suffered a miscarriage
Did I read that the woman who did the crime already had 7 kids? Double checked, it was in the NY Daily News. But the poor thing had just suffered a miscarriage
For damn sure it's time for us here in California to go. Secession is the only answer."
Yeah, there've never been any twisted murders in California.
For damn sure it's time for us here in California to go. Secession is the only answer."
Yeah, there've never been any twisted murders in California.
Whoops, didn't include the period. Must be grammatical menopause.
Whoops, didn't include the period. Must be grammatical menopause.
Hecate, everyone knows resorting to grammar lessons is beyond lame
See, your problem, sweetie, is that you don't understand how to accept friendly advice. If you'd read more, and spout-off less, you'd learn a lot on these boards; of course, that would require some self-control.
Hecate, everyone knows resorting to grammar lessons is beyond lame
See, your problem, sweetie, is that you don't understand how to accept friendly advice. If you'd read more, and spout-off less, you'd learn a lot on these boards; of course, that would require some self-control.
Tin Nut
I have a new product just for the right thinking troll such as yourself. It is for those times in a troll's life when information that dissipates righteous indignation simply cannot be ignored. Cathartic Catheter, for the troll who has no response but to piss on everything in sight.
Tin Nut
I have a new product just for the right thinking troll such as yourself. It is for those times in a troll's life when information that dissipates righteous indignation simply cannot be ignored. Cathartic Catheter, for the troll who has no response but to piss on everything in sight.
Louisiana 13.0
13.2 11.2 12.5 10.7 12.8 15.7 17.5 17.0
It's nice to see Louisiana at the top of the list of the worst once again. What happened to Louisiana?
"Remember when the right played up John Walker Lindh as some typical product of a "blue state"."
It was stupid then, and it's stupid now.
Louisiana 13.0
13.2 11.2 12.5 10.7 12.8 15.7 17.5 17.0
It's nice to see Louisiana at the top of the list of the worst once again. What happened to Louisiana?
"Remember when the right played up John Walker Lindh as some typical product of a "blue state"."
It was stupid then, and it's stupid now.
JDRhoades; You're missing the point. What Atrios and others are doing is pointing out the utter banality, the ordinaryness if you will, of the Reds. They're just like everyone else, and it hurts them to know it. Tough shit.
JDRhoades; You're missing the point. What Atrios and others are doing is pointing out the utter banality, the ordinaryness if you will, of the Reds. They're just like everyone else, and it hurts them to know it. Tough shit.
What happened to America?
What happened to America?
There are some sickos in Missouri and Kansas, but I'm sure there are some sane people around, too?
Yeah, sure there are, I'm sane, right? right?
There are some sickos in Missouri and Kansas, but I'm sure there are some sane people around, too?
Yeah, sure there are, I'm sane, right? right?
Yeah, there've never been any twisted murders in California.
JDRhoades | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:39 pm | #
The murder rate is much higher in Louisiana and Mississippi than it is in New York and California, btw.
Yeah, there've never been any twisted murders in California.
JDRhoades | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:39 pm | #
The murder rate is much higher in Louisiana and Mississippi than it is in New York and California, btw.
You don't have to feel guilty to lie; you just have to want to be let alone.
Doozer among Fraggles
That's a sentiment that could inspire a song...to the tune (all you oldies'll get this one) "You don't have to be a baby to cry"...(the Caravelles)
You dont have to feel guilty to lie.
All you need is to wanna be left alone
You dont have to feel guilty to lie.
For to lie's the way you get it done...
etc
You don't have to feel guilty to lie; you just have to want to be let alone.
Doozer among Fraggles
That's a sentiment that could inspire a song...to the tune (all you oldies'll get this one) "You don't have to be a baby to cry"...(the Caravelles)
You dont have to feel guilty to lie.
All you need is to wanna be left alone
You dont have to feel guilty to lie.
For to lie's the way you get it done...
etc
I hate to say it, but trying to link this to "red-state politics" sounds like the sort of thing Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin would do (and probaby are doing right now) for the other side.
JDRhoades
I think there is a purpose to pointing out that we all live in a violent, fucked up society where people of all stripes, christians included, perpetrate very disturbing acts in almost a routine fashion.
If we roll over and not fight back, we can never turn things around... if the belief, perpetrated in the media, is that fundy x-tians are the moral standard, we will be fucked forever.
I hate to say it, but trying to link this to "red-state politics" sounds like the sort of thing Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin would do (and probaby are doing right now) for the other side.
JDRhoades
I think there is a purpose to pointing out that we all live in a violent, fucked up society where people of all stripes, christians included, perpetrate very disturbing acts in almost a routine fashion.
If we roll over and not fight back, we can never turn things around... if the belief, perpetrated in the media, is that fundy x-tians are the moral standard, we will be fucked forever.
"And I would side with the feminist argument here that as long as women's worth is based on their fecundity, we're going to have these problems."
That's the thing of it of course. As it becomes the absolute rather than the relative meme, governing every aspect of what is socially acceptable for women, there will be more and more appalling episodes involving women and babies - I anticipate for example an overt White Feather attack on women without children, as being excludable in various ways. You actually are seeing the consequences, into the madness zone of course here, of the hardcore efforts to deny any form of birth control to young women. Young women in the 'heartland' now quite often glamourise pregnancy, at 15 and 16, where even a decade ago it was certainly stigmatised. It is not now. It is become the norm. The step after that is that is that the absence of childbearing will be regarded as aberrant, suspicious and evidence of hostility toward society.
Incidentally, in terms of really grotesque crimes of this type, in the great 'heartland' I was actually reminded of the '50s when wacko crime sprees were pretty much the Midwestern norm. Anybody remember Charles
Starkwether-Carol Fugate and Nebraska? I always thought it had more to do with isolation and excessive wheat than anything else.
"And I would side with the feminist argument here that as long as women's worth is based on their fecundity, we're going to have these problems."
That's the thing of it of course. As it becomes the absolute rather than the relative meme, governing every aspect of what is socially acceptable for women, there will be more and more appalling episodes involving women and babies - I anticipate for example an overt White Feather attack on women without children, as being excludable in various ways. You actually are seeing the consequences, into the madness zone of course here, of the hardcore efforts to deny any form of birth control to young women. Young women in the 'heartland' now quite often glamourise pregnancy, at 15 and 16, where even a decade ago it was certainly stigmatised. It is not now. It is become the norm. The step after that is that is that the absence of childbearing will be regarded as aberrant, suspicious and evidence of hostility toward society.
Incidentally, in terms of really grotesque crimes of this type, in the great 'heartland' I was actually reminded of the '50s when wacko crime sprees were pretty much the Midwestern norm. Anybody remember Charles
Starkwether-Carol Fugate and Nebraska? I always thought it had more to do with isolation and excessive wheat than anything else.
Hey Incognito,
You can see a picture of my new kitty Sgt Mango Goldstein.
I was going to name him String, but you beat me to that name
Hey Incognito,
You can see a picture of my new kitty Sgt Mango Goldstein.
I was going to name him String, but you beat me to that name
Incidentally, in terms of really grotesque crimes of this type, in the great 'heartland' I was actually reminded of the '50s when wacko crime sprees were pretty much the Midwestern norm. Anybody remember Charles
Starkwether-Carol Fugate and Nebraska? I always thought it had more to do with isolation and excessive wheat than anything else.
GWPDA | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:45 pm | #
Made into a film called "Badlands" by Terance Malick. Great film.
Incidentally, in terms of really grotesque crimes of this type, in the great 'heartland' I was actually reminded of the '50s when wacko crime sprees were pretty much the Midwestern norm. Anybody remember Charles
Starkwether-Carol Fugate and Nebraska? I always thought it had more to do with isolation and excessive wheat than anything else.
GWPDA | Email | Homepage | 12.18.04 - 12:45 pm | #
Made into a film called "Badlands" by Terance Malick. Great film.
steve_gilliard - No, my troll, it is you who are out of the mainstream with your rote, meaningless patriotism.
You know, they can't seem to recognize it, but the kind of patriotism these people adhere to is insulting to the country, really. It is rote, and thus devoid of any real meaning. They haven't given it a moment's thought and that kind of loyalty is not any deeper than about and eighth of an inch. I hope the administration realizes that because if they ever turn on it, it is going to be interesting.
steve_gilliard - No, my troll, it is you who are out of the mainstream with your rote, meaningless patriotism.
You know, they can't seem to recognize it, but the kind of patriotism these people adhere to is insulting to the country, really. It is rote, and thus devoid of any real meaning. They haven't given it a moment's thought and that kind of loyalty is not any deeper than about and eighth of an inch. I hope the administration realizes that because if they ever turn on it, it is going to be interesting.
What happened to America?
ΤΏΤ
It went thataway. Off to the Reicht, there...
What happened to America?
ΤΏΤ
It went thataway. Off to the Reicht, there...
Atrios is responding to a column where Brooks opined that people in "red states" have wonderful xian morals while people in "blue states" do not. He's pointing out here, as he has in several other threads, that Brooks is full of shit. The "red states" are not some utopia of suburban xian bliss. He is not claiming that this woman is typical of people who live in "red states" or even that she is a product of living in a "red state," although several of us have discussed how the culture of misogyny and fundie xianity in American contributes to these sorts of events.
Atrios is responding to a column where Brooks opined that people in "red states" have wonderful xian morals while people in "blue states" do not. He's pointing out here, as he has in several other threads, that Brooks is full of shit. The "red states" are not some utopia of suburban xian bliss. He is not claiming that this woman is typical of people who live in "red states" or even that she is a product of living in a "red state," although several of us have discussed how the culture of misogyny and fundie xianity in American contributes to these sorts of events.
You know, they can't seem to recognize it, but the kind of patriotism these people adhere to is insulting to the country, really. It is rote, and thus devoid of any real meaning. They haven't given it a moment's thought and that kind of loyalty is not any deeper than about and eighth of an inch. I hope the administration realizes that because if they ever turn on it, it is going to be interesting.
Norman Mailer addresses this at length in "Why We are at War?"
He calls it "Flag Patriotism", the idea that if you put a "Support Our Troops" bumper sticker on your SUV, you've done your patriotic duty.
You know, they can't seem to recognize it, but the kind of patriotism these people adhere to is insulting to the country, really. It is rote, and thus devoid of any real meaning. They haven't given it a moment's thought and that kind of loyalty is not any deeper than about and eighth of an inch. I hope the administration realizes that because if they ever turn on it, it is going to be interesting.
Norman Mailer addresses this at length in "Why We are at War?"
He calls it "Flag Patriotism", the idea that if you put a "Support Our Troops" bumper sticker on your SUV, you've done your patriotic duty.
oldwhitelady
Sgt. Mango looks like a few DI's I have seen when I was bouncing around military bases.
TenHut!
oldwhitelady
Sgt. Mango looks like a few DI's I have seen when I was bouncing around military bases.
TenHut!
Tena,
It's like the parents who are trying to get a teacher fired because she doesn't stand up when her class does the pledge. I wrote about it yesterday.
To them, the motions are more important than the meaning.
Tena,
It's like the parents who are trying to get a teacher fired because she doesn't stand up when her class does the pledge. I wrote about it yesterday.
To them, the motions are more important than the meaning.
SWR - and Bruce Springsteen wrote a song about it - Nebraska
And let us not forget that In Cold Blood took place in Kansas.
The Midwest is a much darker place that people give it credit for.
SWR - and Bruce Springsteen wrote a song about it - Nebraska
And let us not forget that In Cold Blood took place in Kansas.
The Midwest is a much darker place that people give it credit for.
I was going to name him String, but you beat me to that name
oldwhitelady
He looks like a big ol' tomcat. I tell you what, I was about to throw String outside on his own last night. He was totally insufferable. But after I was around for awhile, he's totally settled down. When I'm gone tonight, he's probably go haywire, again.
I was going to name him String, but you beat me to that name
oldwhitelady
He looks like a big ol' tomcat. I tell you what, I was about to throw String outside on his own last night. He was totally insufferable. But after I was around for awhile, he's totally settled down. When I'm gone tonight, he's probably go haywire, again.
patriotboy - exactly - it's a show. It's put on by the same people who were glued to CNN during "Shock and Awe".
They have mental problems, as in a lack of capacity for any kind of rounded thought.
patriotboy - exactly - it's a show. It's put on by the same people who were glued to CNN during "Shock and Awe".
They have mental problems, as in a lack of capacity for any kind of rounded thought.
And let us not forget that In Cold Blood took place in Kansas.
And Elizabeth Smart in Utah and Jon Benet Ramsey in Colorodo and Gary Gilmore in Utah.
And let us not forget that In Cold Blood took place in Kansas.
And Elizabeth Smart in Utah and Jon Benet Ramsey in Colorodo and Gary Gilmore in Utah.
ΤΏΤ - I did mention to you that Stringey is half-puma?
ΤΏΤ - I did mention to you that Stringey is half-puma?
The thought that Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate - and bible belt states the highest -is just one small piece of reality that shows how fucked up our public dialogue is.
The thought that Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate - and bible belt states the highest -is just one small piece of reality that shows how fucked up our public dialogue is.
Dear ΤΏΤ
Sounds like String is getting really attached to you. He'll learn over time that when you leave you always come back. Is he gaining any weight?
Dear ΤΏΤ
Sounds like String is getting really attached to you. He'll learn over time that when you leave you always come back. Is he gaining any weight?
Anybody remember Charles
Starkwether-Carol Fugate and Nebraska? I always thought it had more to do with isolation and excessive wheat than anything else.
GWPDA
Anyone remember Smith & Hickock? (Kansas, '59) And why did we need another "In Cold Blood? I thought Capote did such a good job on the original there would be no need. Maybe just because it was in B&W, and B&W sucks? Tell that to Hitchcock.
Anybody remember Charles
Starkwether-Carol Fugate and Nebraska? I always thought it had more to do with isolation and excessive wheat than anything else.
GWPDA
Anyone remember Smith & Hickock? (Kansas, '59) And why did we need another "In Cold Blood? I thought Capote did such a good job on the original there would be no need. Maybe just because it was in B&W, and B&W sucks? Tell that to Hitchcock.
ΤΏΤ
Wow, it's Mark Harden all over again! 
ΤΏΤ
Wow, it's Mark Harden all over again!
The Midwest is a much darker place that people give it credit for.
Don't forget about the BTK killer in Wichita. After 30 years he's still at large and playing cat and mouse games with the police to this day.
The Midwest is a much darker place that people give it credit for.
Don't forget about the BTK killer in Wichita. After 30 years he's still at large and playing cat and mouse games with the police to this day.
...it is you who are out of the mainstream with your rote, meaningless patriotism.
There is, of course, a way for our little brownshirt to redeem himself.
Enlist!
Put up or shut up, motherfucker...
...it is you who are out of the mainstream with your rote, meaningless patriotism.
There is, of course, a way for our little brownshirt to redeem himself.
Enlist!
Put up or shut up, motherfucker...
And Ted Buundy did about half of his killings in Utah. He moved there after leainving WA--where he was a Republican political operative.
I worked with a guy who was Bundy's friend during the campaign days. Helped him move to Olympia. Rode in his VW. He remembered Bundy leaving a fundraiser early the same night an Evergreen student was murdered. It gives him the creeps to this day.
When Bundy was first arrested, he raised money to help him with lawyer fees.
Bundy has a kid in Yelm, WA. Conceived while he was in prison. That would be wierd to be the child of an infamous murderer.
And Ted Buundy did about half of his killings in Utah. He moved there after leainving WA--where he was a Republican political operative.
I worked with a guy who was Bundy's friend during the campaign days. Helped him move to Olympia. Rode in his VW. He remembered Bundy leaving a fundraiser early the same night an Evergreen student was murdered. It gives him the creeps to this day.
When Bundy was first arrested, he raised money to help him with lawyer fees.
Bundy has a kid in Yelm, WA. Conceived while he was in prison. That would be wierd to be the child of an infamous murderer.
BTW, to Hecate, upthread:
Leonard Cohen put the Cavafy poem to music; "Alexandra Leaving," in his last album. It's a nice song.
BTW, to Hecate, upthread:
Leonard Cohen put the Cavafy poem to music; "Alexandra Leaving," in his last album. It's a nice song.
Sounds like String is getting really attached to you. He'll learn over time that when you leave you always come back. Is he gaining any weight?
Hecate
Yeah, sort of but I don't know how big he's going to get. I think he's going to always be a small cat.
Sounds like String is getting really attached to you. He'll learn over time that when you leave you always come back. Is he gaining any weight?
Hecate
Yeah, sort of but I don't know how big he's going to get. I think he's going to always be a small cat.
as if the tales of domestic ruin arent enough, here's a little something to brighten your day:
Pentagon says depleted uranium is harmless
By: Helen Thomas
WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon claims that American forces and Iraqis are not at risk from contact with depleted uranium, which is used in armor-piercing munitions and protective tank plating.
That's baloney to some scientists, who insist the widespread use of depleted uranium during the American-led invasion and occupation of Iraq poses a grave danger.
Despite attempts to reassure the public, the Pentagon remains on the defensive.
Depleted uranium, or DU, is a radioactive byproduct of the industrial process to enrich uranium. It is the leftover uranium-238 that results when scientists seek to transform naturally occurring uranium into uranium-235, which is used to produce nuclear energy.
The Army values munitions manufactured from depleted uranium because, when fused with metal alloys, they are considered the most effective warheads for penetrating enemy tanks. Also, because depleted uranium is twice as dense as lead, the Army uses DU as armor plating.
Once a depleted-uranium round strikes its target, the projectile begins to burn on impact, creating tiny particles of radioactive U-238. Winds can transport this radioactive dust many miles, potentially contaminating the air that innocent humans breathe.
This inhalation might cause lung cancer, kidney damage, cancers of bones and skin, as well as birth defects and chemical poisoning.
The 1991 Persian Gulf War was the first conflict to see the widespread use of depleted uranium, both in armor-piercing projectiles and in the protective armor of the new generation of Abrams tanks.
Studies by the Pentagon and the National Academy of Sciences established no linkage between DU and the "Gulf War Syndrome" ailments after the first Gulf War.
Some 70 people are still under study for the effects of contact with DU, with particular emphasis on what happens when people breathe the air where DU projectiles have vaporized.
Dr. Helen Caldicott has dedicated her life to warning about the hazards of nuclear war and the effects of DU.
Born in Melbourne, Australia, she first became interested in nuclear hazards when she saw the movie "On the Beach" at the age of 15. The film deals with a nuclear accident that leads to a global nuclear war.
Growing up, she led a movement in Australia against the French atmospheric nuclear tests in the Pacific and tried to win a ban on Australian uranium mining.
She became a medical doctor and later founded Physicians for Social Responsibility, which won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985. She also has been a nominee for the same prize. She is a strong, vocal anti-war activist.
In her book "The New Nuclear Danger: George W. Bush's Military-Industrial Complex" Caldicott claims that DU qualifies as a nuclear weapon because of its low-level radioactivity. She said that huge quanti
as if the tales of domestic ruin arent enough, here's a little something to brighten your day:
Pentagon says depleted uranium is harmless
By: Helen Thomas
WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon claims that American forces and Iraqis are not at risk from contact with depleted uranium, which is used in armor-piercing munitions and protective tank plating.
That's baloney to some scientists, who insist the widespread use of depleted uranium during the American-led invasion and occupation of Iraq poses a grave danger.
Despite attempts to reassure the public, the Pentagon remains on the defensive.
Depleted uranium, or DU, is a radioactive byproduct of the industrial process to enrich uranium. It is the leftover uranium-238 that results when scientists seek to transform naturally occurring uranium into uranium-235, which is used to produce nuclear energy.
The Army values munitions manufactured from depleted uranium because, when fused with metal alloys, they are considered the most effective warheads for penetrating enemy tanks. Also, because depleted uranium is twice as dense as lead, the Army uses DU as armor plating.
Once a depleted-uranium round strikes its target, the projectile begins to burn on impact, creating tiny particles of radioactive U-238. Winds can transport this radioactive dust many miles, potentially contaminating the air that innocent humans breathe.
This inhalation might cause lung cancer, kidney damage, cancers of bones and skin, as well as birth defects and chemical poisoning.
The 1991 Persian Gulf War was the first conflict to see the widespread use of depleted uranium, both in armor-piercing projectiles and in the protective armor of the new generation of Abrams tanks.
Studies by the Pentagon and the National Academy of Sciences established no linkage between DU and the "Gulf War Syndrome" ailments after the first Gulf War.
Some 70 people are still under study for the effects of contact with DU, with particular emphasis on what happens when people breathe the air where DU projectiles have vaporized.
Dr. Helen Caldicott has dedicated her life to warning about the hazards of nuclear war and the effects of DU.
Born in Melbourne, Australia, she first became interested in nuclear hazards when she saw the movie "On the Beach" at the age of 15. The film deals with a nuclear accident that leads to a global nuclear war.
Growing up, she led a movement in Australia against the French atmospheric nuclear tests in the Pacific and tried to win a ban on Australian uranium mining.
She became a medical doctor and later founded Physicians for Social Responsibility, which won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985. She also has been a nominee for the same prize. She is a strong, vocal anti-war activist.
In her book "The New Nuclear Danger: George W. Bush's Military-Industrial Complex" Caldicott claims that DU qualifies as a nuclear weapon because of its low-level radioactivity. She said that huge quanti
GWPDA--
If I remember correctly, you posted a picture of your dog Arthur last week. What kind of dog is he? He's a beauty.
GWPDA--
If I remember correctly, you posted a picture of your dog Arthur last week. What kind of dog is he? He's a beauty.
They also made another Starkweather-Fugate movie. Don't remember the name, but the deeply creepy Tim Roth was in it, and Fairza Balk.
They also made another Starkweather-Fugate movie. Don't remember the name, but the deeply creepy Tim Roth was in it, and Fairza Balk.
"
To them, the motions are more important than the meaning."
I have been thinking along those lines all morning for other reasons.
I obviously read this blog intensely, and one thing I find interesting is the depth many commenters indicate in their views of their particular faith. The understanding of the history and culture of their faith is also displayed here and is almost a daily lesson for me. They bring something to the discussion of faith that those I assoicate with who are ardent Christians do not. While I will hear a great deal of explanation for one aspect of the Bible or another from the ardent ones, it all seems rote, a memorized fact that has little impact on how they experience their faith. Much of it I am familiar with on one level or another simply by living in the culture. The people here are some of the most spiritual I have seen in a long time. I find the trolls as well as the general opinion that left thinkers are simply secular heathens completely unfounded. In many respects I would be more trusting of them to inform me on religious matters than those that waltz into Church on Sunday to listen to a diatribe from a supposed guide for the soul.
"
To them, the motions are more important than the meaning."
I have been thinking along those lines all morning for other reasons.
I obviously read this blog intensely, and one thing I find interesting is the depth many commenters indicate in their views of their particular faith. The understanding of the history and culture of their faith is also displayed here and is almost a daily lesson for me. They bring something to the discussion of faith that those I assoicate with who are ardent Christians do not. While I will hear a great deal of explanation for one aspect of the Bible or another from the ardent ones, it all seems rote, a memorized fact that has little impact on how they experience their faith. Much of it I am familiar with on one level or another simply by living in the culture. The people here are some of the most spiritual I have seen in a long time. I find the trolls as well as the general opinion that left thinkers are simply secular heathens completely unfounded. In many respects I would be more trusting of them to inform me on religious matters than those that waltz into Church on Sunday to listen to a diatribe from a supposed guide for the soul.
I always thought it had more to do with isolation and excessive wheat than anything else.
GWPDA
Probably fear of tornados. And, personally, I find large flat, treeless areas--miles & miles of it--depressing. Face it, we were cave dwellers for a reason, and still are. Vast windswept prairies are pretty much the opposite of a cave.
I always thought it had more to do with isolation and excessive wheat than anything else.
GWPDA
Probably fear of tornados. And, personally, I find large flat, treeless areas--miles & miles of it--depressing. Face it, we were cave dwellers for a reason, and still are. Vast windswept prairies are pretty much the opposite of a cave.
Of course, two weeks isn't long enough to tell but he's eating really well so there's no problem there.
Of course, two weeks isn't long enough to tell but he's eating really well so there's no problem there.
mMORE Helen Thomas
In her book "The New Nuclear Danger: George W. Bush's Military-Industrial Complex" Caldicott claims that DU qualifies as a nuclear weapon because of its low-level radioactivity. She said that huge quantities of DU were created during the Cold War, when the United States made thousands of nuclear weapons.
"Weapon researchers and developers have now succeeded in putting this toxic 'nuclear waste' to use through the creation of depleted uranium bullets and shells," she added.
The weapons can cause enormous damage in Iraq, she said. Depleted-uranium particles are soluble in water, and the waters around the battlefields, as in Iraq and Kuwait, are at risk of radioactive pollution, Caldicott said.
She warned that DU maintains radioactivity for billions of years and can concentrate in the food chain, with children and babies more vulnerable to the carcinogenic effects of ingested radiation than adults.
Medical reports from Iraq indicate that childhood malignancies are seven times more likely than they were before the first Gulf War.
The complaints of the veterans of the first Gulf War are "surprisingly similar in pattern to the various pathologies induced by uranium exposure as described by the U.S. military," Caldicott said.
Some 50,000 to 80,000 veterans were afflicted with Gulf War Syndrome during that war, and there has been no definitive answer -- but a lot of dispute -- as to the cause.
The military's use of depleted uranium is still being questioned. But one thing is certain: War is dangerous to your health.
mMORE Helen Thomas
In her book "The New Nuclear Danger: George W. Bush's Military-Industrial Complex" Caldicott claims that DU qualifies as a nuclear weapon because of its low-level radioactivity. She said that huge quantities of DU were created during the Cold War, when the United States made thousands of nuclear weapons.
"Weapon researchers and developers have now succeeded in putting this toxic 'nuclear waste' to use through the creation of depleted uranium bullets and shells," she added.
The weapons can cause enormous damage in Iraq, she said. Depleted-uranium particles are soluble in water, and the waters around the battlefields, as in Iraq and Kuwait, are at risk of radioactive pollution, Caldicott said.
She warned that DU maintains radioactivity for billions of years and can concentrate in the food chain, with children and babies more vulnerable to the carcinogenic effects of ingested radiation than adults.
Medical reports from Iraq indicate that childhood malignancies are seven times more likely than they were before the first Gulf War.
The complaints of the veterans of the first Gulf War are "surprisingly similar in pattern to the various pathologies induced by uranium exposure as described by the U.S. military," Caldicott said.
Some 50,000 to 80,000 veterans were afflicted with Gulf War Syndrome during that war, and there has been no definitive answer -- but a lot of dispute -- as to the cause.
The military's use of depleted uranium is still being questioned. But one thing is certain: War is dangerous to your health.
Utah?
I used to live there for a few years. A beautiful state with mostly wonderful people.
But, again, it has a dark side... jack mormon kids, sniffing glue and engaging in other dangerous acts trying to make sense of their lives... and, as mentioned, some of the craziest crimes ever have been committed there.
Utah?
I used to live there for a few years. A beautiful state with mostly wonderful people.
But, again, it has a dark side... jack mormon kids, sniffing glue and engaging in other dangerous acts trying to make sense of their lives... and, as mentioned, some of the craziest crimes ever have been committed there.
They also made another Starkweather-Fugate movie. Don't remember the name, but the deeply creepy Tim Roth was in it, and Fairza Balk.
That's Fairuza Balk, obviously.
And what was the name of the Peter Jackson film roughly based on the case? Michael J. Fox was in it.
They also made another Starkweather-Fugate movie. Don't remember the name, but the deeply creepy Tim Roth was in it, and Fairza Balk.
That's Fairuza Balk, obviously.
And what was the name of the Peter Jackson film roughly based on the case? Michael J. Fox was in it.
I think it was Al Frankin who put it thus: "Bush loves America the way a four year old loves his mommy. Mommy is perfect, mommy can do no wrong. Liberals love America they way adults love others, with an understanding of faults and an expectation that errors will be acknowledged and redressed." There is some paraphrasing there but that is essentially the difference.
Liberalism may be out of fashion in America right now but it is not a coat that I or others like me are going to put in the dumpster or in the back of the closet hoping it will come back in style someday. I wear my Liberal heart right out there for everyone to see. Bobo makes claims for his "team" that the facts do not bear out, this tragic case is a case in point. That's all the post says. I concur.
As to the troll feeding, come on folks! OK, has anyone figured out (by style only, no IP address snooping) which one this guy is? The peculiar quoting style and off topic jabs should narrow it down I think.
I think it was Al Frankin who put it thus: "Bush loves America the way a four year old loves his mommy. Mommy is perfect, mommy can do no wrong. Liberals love America they way adults love others, with an understanding of faults and an expectation that errors will be acknowledged and redressed." There is some paraphrasing there but that is essentially the difference.
Liberalism may be out of fashion in America right now but it is not a coat that I or others like me are going to put in the dumpster or in the back of the closet hoping it will come back in style someday. I wear my Liberal heart right out there for everyone to see. Bobo makes claims for his "team" that the facts do not bear out, this tragic case is a case in point. That's all the post says. I concur.
As to the troll feeding, come on folks! OK, has anyone figured out (by style only, no IP address snooping) which one this guy is? The peculiar quoting style and off topic jabs should narrow it down I think.
And Ted Buundy did about half of his killings in Utah. He moved there after leainving WA--where he was a Republican political operative.
Well you'd have to give Ted Bundy to "Blue" America.
I do think that you can connect a certain kind of crime with a certain environment. Does anybody remember Daniel Rakowitz? The guy in he East Village who killed his Swiss ballet dancer girlfriend then chopped her up, made soup out of her and served it to the homeless?
That was pure New York/East Village, drugs, dumbass middle-class women being attracted to the "outlaw" mystisque etc.
But there's definitely a trend with Christian women going bonkers and killing their kids that couldn't happen to say, a Jewish or liberal Protestant woman in suburban Boston simply because these women would know how to use birth control or leave their husbands.
Environment does count.
And Ted Buundy did about half of his killings in Utah. He moved there after leainving WA--where he was a Republican political operative.
Well you'd have to give Ted Bundy to "Blue" America.
I do think that you can connect a certain kind of crime with a certain environment. Does anybody remember Daniel Rakowitz? The guy in he East Village who killed his Swiss ballet dancer girlfriend then chopped her up, made soup out of her and served it to the homeless?
That was pure New York/East Village, drugs, dumbass middle-class women being attracted to the "outlaw" mystisque etc.
But there's definitely a trend with Christian women going bonkers and killing their kids that couldn't happen to say, a Jewish or liberal Protestant woman in suburban Boston simply because these women would know how to use birth control or leave their husbands.
Environment does count.
We all know the Clenis did it. He charged into Melvern, raping and pillaging, and unfortunate Lisa ended up pregnant. He then enlisted the help of Hillary, Tipper and James Carville, who forced the poor woman into an abortion clinic, thus allowing him to again state "I never had sex with that women". While in the abortion clinic, 'Manchurian candidate' style mind control was initiated, directing the woman to replace her lost baby in any way possible, but especially by victimizing a Christian. Mary Matalin will write a book about it and made a gazillion dollars.Then evil Hollywood will buy the rights and do a movie-to eventually be seen on Lifetime for Women- Moment of Truth series- that Clenis!!
We all know the Clenis did it. He charged into Melvern, raping and pillaging, and unfortunate Lisa ended up pregnant. He then enlisted the help of Hillary, Tipper and James Carville, who forced the poor woman into an abortion clinic, thus allowing him to again state "I never had sex with that women". While in the abortion clinic, 'Manchurian candidate' style mind control was initiated, directing the woman to replace her lost baby in any way possible, but especially by victimizing a Christian. Mary Matalin will write a book about it and made a gazillion dollars.Then evil Hollywood will buy the rights and do a movie-to eventually be seen on Lifetime for Women- Moment of Truth series- that Clenis!!
Why the hell is everyone so shocked by this crime? It is standard for this wildly mysoginistic culture.
Hell, did you know that getting pregnant doubles a woman's chances of violent assault or murder?
In fact, the single thing that a woman can do in her lifetime to most dramatically increase her chances of being violently assaulted or murdered is to get pregnant.
Why the hell is everyone so shocked by this crime? It is standard for this wildly mysoginistic culture.
Hell, did you know that getting pregnant doubles a woman's chances of violent assault or murder?
In fact, the single thing that a woman can do in her lifetime to most dramatically increase her chances of being violently assaulted or murdered is to get pregnant.
As to the troll feeding, come on folks! OK, has anyone figured out (by style only, no IP address snooping) which one this guy is? The peculiar quoting style and off topic jabs should narrow it down I think.
catalexis
I dunno, to me the trools are pretty much of a muchness. here are a few which seem to post in a consistent style...but the lumpen trolletariat are similar enough in intelligence (little), content (lacking), and wit (you're kidding, right) as to be pretty much interchangeably unmemorable...
"lumpen trolletariat" is a trade-marked (i dunno how to get that character string) descriptor, but anyone is allowed to appropriate it
As to the troll feeding, come on folks! OK, has anyone figured out (by style only, no IP address snooping) which one this guy is? The peculiar quoting style and off topic jabs should narrow it down I think.
catalexis
I dunno, to me the trools are pretty much of a muchness. here are a few which seem to post in a consistent style...but the lumpen trolletariat are similar enough in intelligence (little), content (lacking), and wit (you're kidding, right) as to be pretty much interchangeably unmemorable...
"lumpen trolletariat" is a trade-marked (i dunno how to get that character string) descriptor, but anyone is allowed to appropriate it
"But there's definitely a trend with Christian women going bonkers and killing their kids that couldn't happen to say, a Jewish or liberal Protestant woman in suburban Boston simply because these women would know how to use birth control or leave their husbands."
So it is a "red state" thing then. Ladies and gentlemen, the revampted left.
Congrats Atrios, they got it.
"But there's definitely a trend with Christian women going bonkers and killing their kids that couldn't happen to say, a Jewish or liberal Protestant woman in suburban Boston simply because these women would know how to use birth control or leave their husbands."
So it is a "red state" thing then. Ladies and gentlemen, the revampted left.
Congrats Atrios, they got it.
RD - My good dog Arthur is a bonemouth Shar-pei. Note this link contains a photo of an eminent bonemouth, named "Iron Monkey" a famed fighter in Macau in the 1950's. Pictured with his son. Which is a lot of the reason I find one of our local trolls less than likely....
RD - My good dog Arthur is a bonemouth Shar-pei. Note this link contains a photo of an eminent bonemouth, named "Iron Monkey" a famed fighter in Macau in the 1950's. Pictured with his son. Which is a lot of the reason I find one of our local trolls less than likely....