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I'MMA LET YOU FINISH

Because it's true that he could have sent e-mails to everyone on the planet and chose not to, clearly he was hiding the fact.
SteveNS | 01.15.05 - 12:21 am | #

The news that the earth revolves around the sun, while prominently reported and discussed in the scientific community, came as a surprise to people who've had their heads up their asses.
zap | 01.15.05 - 12:22 am | #

If what someone says is true, what difference does it make why she or he says it?
The Dude Abides | 01.15.05 - 12:23 am | #

The gist of it is, the only individuals whom the public can trust are accredited journalists.

Our ethics are above fucking reproach.
Judith Miller | 01.15.05 - 12:24 am | #

I hear that our lander will be met with flowers and candy
Bobby Peru | 01.15.05 - 12:24 am | #

Oh, this is so fucking lame. Next!
Doozer among Fraggles | 01.15.05 - 12:25 am | #

This shows the new journalistic ethics in action: make it look equally bad for both sides. If one side is guilty of mass murder, point out that the other side swats flies, too.
Echidne of the snakes | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:26 am | #

What's new is Teachout's revelation that the Dean campaign hired Armstrong because they wanted him to give them good blog...

Sad attempt at tittilating humor while being an idiot.

I think that's illegal in some states.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 12:28 am | #

Nor does working for the Washington Post Company "make someone a journalist".
I prefer Chris Cliffbarnestrope.
sean | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:28 am | #

Then a "whole lot of prominent bloggers" are either fucking morons or shitheaded liars.

For God's sake.

I thought I'd seen some bullshit "scandals" before, but this one has really scraped past the bottom of the barrel straight down into the motherfucking septic tank.

Earth to morons: THIS IS NOT A FUCKING SCANDAL. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU MAKE BELIEVE IT IS, IT JUST FUCKING ISN'T.

Sorry, was I shouting?
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:28 am | #

"The Submerging Democratic Minority"

A new book by Ruy Teixeira.

What will RT say when Wisconsin flipz red in 2008??
Trolly | 01.15.05 - 12:28 am | #

Fridays are such slow news days.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 12:29 am | #

The dual requirements of an appearance of balance and an in-depth investigation to get to the truth are in full opposition. Seems to me the ethical obligation of journalism is not balance, but truth.
The Dude Abides | 01.15.05 - 12:29 am | #

Dude Abides, do u live in a red or blue state. I'm in a bigtime blue state which sux!!
Trolly | 01.15.05 - 12:30 am | #

I'm too pissed off about this stuff. I'm going shopping for baking stuff, as I plan to take my frustration out on a pan of kick-ass cinnamon rolls tomorrow.

Yeeeaarrrgh!
Stinky | 01.15.05 - 12:31 am | #

Jesus.

I'm running out of disbelief here.
MisterX | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:31 am | #

trolly-notjenna, flip over huh hun and give yer tush a rest...typing upside down shouldn't affect your posts too awfully much, ok sweetie?
geraldo | 01.15.05 - 12:32 am | #

Stinky,
A kick-pan of cinammon-ass rolls, maybe??
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 12:33 am | #

I'm in a bigtime blue state.
Ha! Proof...what did the upscale Manhattan bars close early dear?
geraldo | 01.15.05 - 12:34 am | #

Shorter Chris Sullentrop:

I'm a lazy hack who didn't feel like researching all this nonsense I'm writing.

There, I just wrote his whole ridiculous column. When do I get paid?
Ally | 01.15.05 - 12:34 am | #

The whole point of talking about this is to forget about Armstrong Williams and his case which is much more important to discuss. I feel like we are being led by the nose to a different feeding trough. You know, the stuff about "Look over there! Nothing to see here!"

The crucial point of the Williams case is that it was the government and the taxpayers' funds which were used to buy propaganda time on the airwaves.
Echidne of the snakes | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:40 am | #

Well, I've been looking at Wikipedia's page on the 2006 senate elections and I predict +4 seats for the Repubs, including Jeffords going down. Also both Nelsons will go down (Nebr and Fla, both dems).

58-42 senate, Baby!
Trolly | 01.15.05 - 12:43 am | #

Shortest Suellen:

Moral relativsim (even though it's neither moral nor relative - discuss).
S in Mich | 01.15.05 - 12:44 am | #

We're witnessing the latest payola-driven fake media storm. They've ginned up a false accusation to try and cloud the issue of payola. We should not only be debunking the fake story but widen to reveal the real purpose--to hide the real story of the entire right wing punditry being on the take.
puppethead | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:47 am | #

Amen Echidne,

The sclm are so oblivious in their corporate-manufactured "realities" that they can't tell the difference anymore between taxpayer-funded propaganda used against taxpayers themselves otoh and candidates running for office on their own money oto. Hell, I have no problems with punk-ass chump hiring hacks and flacks on his own dime. Just don't hose me with my own money.
dedominator | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:47 am | #

Rhetorical suellentrop:

Q: If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?

Suellentrop: Did the tree check with me first?
watertiger | 01.15.05 - 12:47 am | #

There has been over 12,500 complaints to the FCC against Amstrong Williams.

I've been reading Kos for about six months, and I think they just may have picked the wrong guy to fuck with.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 12:47 am | #

Oh, fuck Sue Ellen.
This is from the Crossfart thread below, which appears to be post-mortimer;

Someone's probably asked this already, but why does the Right like Dem moderates so much? Why wouldn't Novak be happier to see a flaming liveral take the helm at the DNC? Begala, I can understand; he's a Dem and entitled to his preference--if that really is it--but it seems to me the Right should be thinking "the more Liberals in the DNC the better". Just seems odd.
Doozer among Fraggles | 01.15.05 - 12:48 am | #

i think the point that he is making is that the information was only on a few internets. duh.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 12:48 am | #

My head hurts. Who friggin' cares whether they knew or not? He disclosed. Armstrong didn't. The next chair of the DNC better be Howard Dean. That is all.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 12:49 am | #

Trolly!

Come back to bed, you little scamp . . .
Andrew "Furry Daddy" Sullivan | 01.15.05 - 12:50 am | #

Someone's probably asked this already, but why does the Right like Dem moderates so much?

Because they are such big pussies. GOP knows that Begala et. al. will stick with the same losing game plan no matter how often it fails.

"Good point, Tucker" is why they love the Sensible Liberals.

Plus they get help branding people like Dean as Trotskyite radicals.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 12:52 am | #

He disclosed. Armstrong didn't.

And therein lies the problem. Can't be having our paid assassins outed, y'know? Must take prisoners.
watertiger | 01.15.05 - 12:53 am | #

Hecate: He disclosed. Armstrong didn't.

Put "public money vs. private money" into the equation, and we have it summed out at 100% of the story.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:53 am | #

I've been a long-time reader here, and I hate to say it, Atrios, but you totally misrepresented the gist of that Slate article. The author's main grievance, which hasn't been addressed, is that Kos also "disclosed" that he was being paid as a consultant to at least one 'Congressional' candidate whose name he has refused to disclose. That is a different issue than the Dean campaign issue, and is something worthy of actual debate.
Andrew | 01.15.05 - 12:53 am | #

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

My first unclosed tag ever!!

Oh, the humanity.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 12:54 am | #

Grey Psoda; I was thinking more of Novak's seeming endorsement of Frost for DNC, over Dean.
Doozer among Fraggles | 01.15.05 - 12:55 am | #

i hope kos sues the bastards. he's a lawyer isn't he?
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 12:55 am | #

Fuck! That dumb twit Zepher needs to fess up that she is a slave to a political cult. She is what creeps me out about the "Deaniacs".

That she is now trashing Dean supporters is really troubling. And trashing good folks who continue to support him tells me she has a *cult* problem.
bigvic | 01.15.05 - 12:57 am | #

"Good point, Tucker" is why they love the Sensible Liberals.

Plus they get help branding people like Dean as Trotskyite radicals.
Grey Psoda | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:52 am

To paraphrase Jim Hightower: the only thing in the middle is roadkill.

I am sick, sick, sick of guys like Begala who constantly bend over and allow the right to spank them for the sake of "civility".

Fuck. That. Shit.
Dirk | 01.15.05 - 12:58 am | #

And isn't the timing interesting: right on the same day that Kos posts a survey showing Dean as the front-runner for head of the DNC. Somebody out there doesn't want that to happen ...
Brooklyn Girl | 01.15.05 - 12:59 am | #

Dirk: Fuck. That. Shit.

Pabst! Blue! Ribbon!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:59 am | #

Hey, not wes, things might be looking up: article
tigrismus | 01.15.05 - 1:00 am | #

I am sick, sick, sick of guys like Begala who constantly bend over and allow the right to spank them for the sake of "civility".

Fuck. That. Shit.

Can we get Gilliard on telly?
Eli | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:01 am | #

I think this Slate guy is on to something. It is possible, I mean just possible, that Iraq and the war on terror are going just fine and dandy and we only think they are fucked up because Howard Dean paid a bunch of bloggers to say so. Isnt it? Well, okay, maybe not. Where is my medicine?
Sentenza | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:02 am | #

i want to know if kurt vonnegut took money for making up zephyr teachout's name.

i posted that on another thread but i'm kind of proud of it, just like i am proud of the fonzie emoticon (which i invented):

A

at least i'm not a blogwhore.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 1:02 am | #

Oh, for fuck's sake! All that's going wrong in the world and people are wasting time(i.e. money) and media space (i.e. money) on how loudly Kos and Armstrong proclaimed their "alleigence" to Dean? Why even dignify this accusation with a reply?

That repug creep Williams took nearly a quarter million TAXPAYERS' dollars to feed the TAXPAYERS repug propaganda!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT is the issue Dems need to focus on! Not this distraction created about liberal bloggers. And when the repugs bring up Kos and Armstrong, we need to ignore them and keep shouting about Williams and his "work."
QuinnLaBelle | 01.15.05 - 1:02 am | #

at least i'm not a blogwhore.

Just an emoticonwhore...
Eli | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:03 am | #

Interesting that WaPo decided it had to attack one of the leading liberal bloggers on the net. Niiiiice. So, did the purchase of Slate from M$ give them that mic into the blogosphere they've been looking for? Guess they were just tired of taking kidney shots to their credibility. Attacking blogs directly in the fishwrap just gave the truth-telling bloggers a little too much pub.

Soillentrash is a not even a party hack. S/he is a mouthpiece for the Washington Post. Ewwww. Talk about sinking to the depths. Hope mommy and daddy didn't pay too much for that degree. I guess s/he is trying to curry favor with the new owners of the right-wing, downtrodden e-rag.

Slate used to be ok back in the day, but it kept losing money with its policy of truth-telling. Anyone else find it ironic that the Washington Post has exposed its strategy for leaking anti-liberal stories?
Peter | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:05 am | #

An observation. The "Republican Noise Machine" threw out some trash to get us all talking about something other than who ELSE besides Armstrong Williams was on the take -- AND IT WORKED.
Dave Johnson | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:07 am | #

Must be nice to live in a blue state where you imagine that anyone EVEN notices this shit. My right wing friends, and fucking-A believe me that is the only option when you live in a BLEEDING red state, don't even have the original AW -I am a whore for Shrub-money- story anywhere near their brain-pans, let alone the right-bloviating response. Next.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:09 am | #

The next chair of the DNC better be Howard Dean. That is all.
Hecate

I second the motion. All in favor say Ay.
FeralLiberal | 01.15.05 - 1:09 am | #

I wrote to CNN via the Crossfire e-form... said essentially that it's no wonder the WSJ and CNN are getting their respective asses handed to them by the bloggers -- at least bloggers know the difference between disclosure of receipt of public funds, vs. NON-disclosure of PUBLIC funds...
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:10 am | #

Fuck off Sullentrop. What an awful last name by the way.
jr | 01.15.05 - 1:10 am | #

Know what this reminds me of? The knuckle-draggers who shrieked that John Kerry had unconscionably "outed" Mary Cheney because even if she WAS already out by her own choice, there were a lot of people watching that debate who had no idea, none I tell you.
forked tongue | 01.15.05 - 1:11 am | #

i want to know if kurt vonnegut took money for making up zephyr teachout's name.

Wanted to know that as well. The media profiles I read about her and some really wanker Deaniacs lead me to believe they were not to be taken seriously.
bigvic | 01.15.05 - 1:11 am | #

Ay.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 1:13 am | #

guys, you are pushing this story more than them.

Have you not learned anything from the swift boat liars?

not wes | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:41 am | #

Sorry, bud, but at last count:

--Novak had talked about it
--O'Reilly had talked about it
--the WSJ had talked about it
--Begala had tacitly agreed to it
--Sullentrop had talked about it
--the guy interviewing Roemer on CNN talked about it.

Why don't you reevaluate who exactly is doing the "pushing?"

It's the "Dean Scream" version 2,0, coincidentally timed, among other reasons, to damage his bid for the DNC chairmanship.
Jeremiah Elias | 01.15.05 - 1:13 am | #

Forked Tongue, you nailed it. Rove is a fucking twisted genius. And the American public, alas, well, we're doughy pantloades.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:13 am | #

C'mon guys... stay with me, here! James Bath just left, but he left me with party favors. I need company, and I sure as hell ain't drivin' nowhere.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:13 am | #

Damn, it's midnight (Central time) and I've turned into a pumpkin.

'night all!
FeralLiberal | 01.15.05 - 1:14 am | #

It isn't a problem that WE are talking about what the Noise Machine threw out.

It's a problem if the MSM is talking about what the Noise Machine tossed their way.

Because we're talking about how the MSM is talking about what the Noise Machine wants it to talk about. whereas the MSM is talking about what the Noise Machine wants it to talk about without knowing that that is what the Noise Machine wants it to talk about.

So ... that's ... well, kinda different, man.
Lisa | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:16 am | #

markos is probably straight.

i have my complaints about his dailykos site, but it is his site. if he and steve gilliard hated my likening john kerry to george bush[boner versus boner = no contest] on that site, they could have expressed their objections to my pov publicly.

what continues to disturb me is that gilliard was allowed the right to erase the entire record of my posts - most of them dealing with boner versus boner - before the election. and banning me forever from that site.

well, the boner-manipulated elections are over now. and in retrospect, i think that it is clear to all that kerry was not really contesting the incumbency of the unelected resident.

does anyone disagree with me that the kerry campaign, the dnc, the dlc, was/are a large bit of fraud?

kos and gilliard punished me for telling the truth.

in my posts, i never used an ugly word. i never disparaged anyone.

all i ever said was that the election was boner versus boner. which meant that kerry was doing a bit of professional wrestling..and not intent on achieving victory.

now, some of you might conclude that i got it accurately.

the question i continue to raise is this...why would kos and his acolyte have such an interest in squelching my pov?

why was the proposition that john kerry was a fraudulent candidate greeted with such hostility?

could so many fail to see how the boners rule the country?

you know, i care about this country. and i don't care. at the same time.

when the left proves itself to be as censorius as the right, as i think it has proven itself to be, i am terrified about the future of this country.

concluding, i doff my hat to duncan, for providing me this uncensored air.

mazeltov,
albertchampion | 01.15.05 - 1:18 am | #

Rove is a fucking twisted genius.

Anybody could look like a fucking twisted genius when the media will spread lies for you, and the candidate that run against have no testicles.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:18 am | #

You know what's really funny?

I write for a living. I get paid for string words together.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Sweeet.
Lisa | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:20 am | #

Doh!

candidate that run against have no testicles. = candidates that run against you have no testicles
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:22 am | #

It's the sake talking. Lots of good warm sake on a cold cold night.

Hope others had as fun a Friday night as we did.

KERRY IN A LANDSLIDE! (just for auld lang syne)
Lisa | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:23 am | #

Andrew: You're right, that is a point worthy of discussion. But Suellentrop says Kos committed a hanging offense, when this is CLEARLY not the case. Discussing the average temperature at which water freezes is worthwhile, but NOT when the Titanic is sinking. Slate aren't interested in an academic debate about ethics, they're interested in maintaining their "credibility" to the wurlitzer.
Padraig | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:24 am | #

Hoyt,
Granted, given those conditions, even MY lame ass could come across as a genius. Rove earns twisted genius status in his willingness, Lyndon Johnson style, to work his ass off, and - literally - leave no turn unstoned during a campaign. Ain't it kinda telling that the two worst presidents in my lifetime are the two from the lone star State???
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:26 am | #

KERRY IN A LANDSLIDE!

Did Kerry start running for 2008? Fuck him, skull & bones kissy boy.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:26 am | #

P.S. 'Cause you know G sr. ain't really from tejas.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:26 am | #

concluding, i doff my hat to duncan, for providing me this uncensored air.

mazeltov,
albertchampion

Yeah, thanks for allowing ALL of us a place to speak.

And, albertchampion, a lot of what you observe is what is probably real... except the "boner" stuff... I think much of that has faded and lost influence, to be replaced with a different s+b-type shit. A more business oriented paranoid conspiracy, if you will.
MisterX | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:26 am | #

Albert C:
I dunno if I'd agree that the Kerry campaign was a fraud. But it wasn't a good campaign, that's for sure.

That was the first campaign I really got involved in. I bet a lot of people here would say that.

And they let us down, Fredo. The Kerry campaign, the Dems, the whole lot of 'em. They let us down.

Fuckers.

But then there's sake to be had tonight.
Lisa | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:29 am | #

I'm sure the Kerry campaign could have been run better, but I don't think it would have made a difference. A lot of people were just convinced that Bush would kill more terrorists --thanks to the media, which truly dictates the character of a campaign -- and nothing Kerry said would have convinced them otherwise.

After all, he's from Massachusettes!

Kerry didn't let us down. The American people let us down, let the whole world down. Kerry wasn't the perfect candidate, but his superiority to Bush would have been obvious in a halfway-rational society.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 1:33 am | #

Rove had the entire press on his side, a macho war-time president, with tons of money. And still had to use a corrupt sec of state to suppress the vote in Ohio. Also, how many votes did they steal in the red states with republican, corporate supplied ES&S & Diebold machines with no paper trail. He's not a genius, just a cheating, lying, little worm who has no honor.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:34 am | #

Well said H.C.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 1:35 am | #

I volunteered for Kerry, went to a couple of his rallys, at the time I thought he was doing alright. But looking back on it now, there is sooooo much more Kerry could have done. Just the "Bring it on " phrase probably could have done it, if it was used properly. Having the Demo conv early and deciding not to hammer Bush during it was ridiculous.

Why in the fuck he conceded then went and hid while John Conyers and Barbara Boxer did all the heavy lifting I'll never figure out. For that I'll never forgive him, this was the most important election in history. I'm mean if your future electability is more important to you than your country, you might as well be a Repug.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:45 am | #

Still trying to come to grips with the fact that KOS is a paid shill, Duncan? No, you're right, it didn't come as a surprise.
laughing | 01.15.05 - 1:46 am | #

Hoyt, I fully agree with his being of invertabrate fish-bait status, he's still a twisted little genius. Considering that his candidates, and he has a long history of this, get elected.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:48 am | #

laughing: Still trying to come to grips with the fact that KOS is a paid shill, Duncan? No, you're right, it didn't come as a surprise.

How about the "unable to grasp basic concepts" troll?

I bet this guy would also say (after last week's Jonah revelation, "Still trying to come to grips with the fact that Steve Gilliard is black, Duncan?"
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:49 am | #

Rovian Rule of Acquisition #7:

Attack your opponents' strengths.

Rovian Rule of Acquisition #9:

If you are guilty of a crime, pre-emptively accuse your opponents of a similar "crime".

Rovian Rule of Acquisition #1327:

When all else fails, muddy the waters with rumor and ad hominem attacks.

*
Hecate rocks. that is all.

-Librarian
(who didn't plan to be on the phone with mum for quite so long, but she's got some health issues going on.)
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:50 am | #

We got our asses handed to us.

Do you really call the margin the Dems lost by in this election getting their asses handed to them?

If so, you are retarded.

Let me guess, Gore got his ass handed to him in 2000, right?

YOU FUCKING RETARDED FUCK!
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 1:51 am | #

laughing

Still trying to come to grips with your little dick?
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:51 am | #

"suellentropc@slate.com"

"works closely with a network of rapid responders, a group of digital brownshirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors and publishers and advertisers"
hat | 01.15.05 - 1:51 am | #

Still trying to come to grips with your little dick?

Grips? More like tweezers...
Warren Terra | 01.15.05 - 1:52 am | #

Hmmph.

Dems have the edge in state-level representatives. We won that. We narrowed the state lege margin.

My red county went blue. Locally, we won. Because of us. Chased the motherfuckers right out of here, actually.

We were not given any chance to win, and we won, door to door, person to person. And we've already made people's lives better.

Volunteer locally, we'll win more. Believe!
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:53 am | #

Oh, and let's review what this is really about, little liar "atrios":

Teachout: "we paid Markos and Jerome Armstrong as consultants, largely in order to ensure that they said positive things about Dean."

Markos: "For the record, I will not discuss my role within the Dean campaign, other than to say it's technical, not message or strategy."

So someone is lying.

Now who is the "wanker"?
hat | 01.15.05 - 1:54 am | #

Nikkei Market Tumbles at Opening Bell Over Dean Payola Rumors!

Tsunami Victims Reject US Aid: "This Might Be Tainted Blog Money," says Homeless Sri Lankan

OBL Threatens "Wrath of Allah on an Electric Pogo Stick" over Kos Scandal!
Reuters | 01.15.05 - 1:55 am | #

Thersites, you are right. It takes work as well as money. And we don't even have to tell people they'll go to hell if they vote for the other party.
Warren Terra | 01.15.05 - 1:55 am | #

Dems have the edge in state-level representatives. We won that. We narrowed the state lege margin.

My red county went blue. Locally, we won. Because of us. Chased the motherfuckers right out of here, actually.

We were not given any chance to win, and we won, door to door, person to person. And we've already made people's lives better.

Volunteer locally, we'll win more. Believe!
Thersites

ROTFLMAO!

You keep winning like this and pretty soon the democratic party will be extinct.

Too fucking funny.
laughing | 01.15.05 - 1:56 am | #

albertchampion,

You're full of shit. I never pulled a single post on Kos, NetSlaves or my own site.

If I banned you for my site, it wasn't for going after Kerry. But then, since I didn't ban anyone from Kos, I'm calling you a liar.

The fact is that I didn't have the power to do anything more than post on Kos and he made every single decision on who posted or replied there.

I have banned disrputive people from NetSlaves and my site, but never Kos, so please stop with the bullshit.

And I can count on one hand the people I've had to kick, and it's hardly a secret when it happens. So fuck you, you goddamn liar.
steve_gilliard | 01.15.05 - 1:56 am | #

laughing

I know I'm an idiot for asking, but did you watch any of the testimony on C-Span or read any of the 102 page report that the Honorable John Conyers issued afterwards, on the voting issues in Ohio. Or do you just believe what the conservative junkie tells you?
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:58 am | #

Can't take it anymore..downloading Firefox...
Starr Jones | 01.15.05 - 1:58 am | #

Laughing is the perfect example of the "Another Friday night and I'm praying to Allah" troll that was mentioned on a previous thread. It stands to reason he has a tiny shriveled thingie.

(Again, I'm aware of the irony in the fact, that I, too, am a huge loser in the friday night date category).
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 2:00 am | #

Mooo.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

You keep winning like this and pretty soon the democratic party will be extinct.

You mean, with the county assembly, most judgeships, the county executive, the state assembly, indeed 75% of local positions including incumbents, going Dem?

Dems won locally. Dems matched GOP big corporate money with small donations. The momentum is ours, silly wabbit.

That's why you and Bush cannot afford to tell the truth. It's our day, tomorrow.

Avaunt, pale shade! I cast you out!
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

Hoyt,

When it comes to voter fraud, the democrats are the experts. Always have been. Now that you guys can no longer win elections you are looking for excuses. Doesn't bode well for you.
laughing | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

Laughing Hat Wanker.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

Shorter laughing:

"Mission Accomplished!"

"Bring 'em on!"
Warren Terra | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

The news that the earth revolves around the sun, while prominently reported and discussed in the scientific community...

M$M: That, of course, is just a theory. We go now to our panel of experts consisting of evangelical fundamentalists, flat earthers and, from the scientific community for balance, proponents of Intelligent Design.
George Johnston | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:02 am | #

laughing

Is that a yes or a no?
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 2:02 am | #

"
Let me guess, Gore got his ass handed to him in 2000, right?

YOU F***ING RETARDED F***!
Grey Psoda "

You might ask him if Clinton got his ass handed to him twice before that?
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:02 am | #

The momentum is ours, silly wabbit.

Yeah, you are just riding that win streak.

Unfuckingbelievable.
laughing | 01.15.05 - 2:03 am | #

Grey, Making telling points all thread long.

I really have to quit smoking the ganj.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 2:04 am | #

Hoyt Clagwell: Is that a yes or a no?

Don't bother with him.

But my daddy would have said, "I'll give you two guesses -- and the first one don't count!"
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:04 am | #

I admire Atrios's crafty retributional misspelling of Suellentrop's name, given the fact that Slate's ace "journalist," scourge of those unaccredited and irresponsible lefty bloggers, twice misspells Kos's last name as "Zunida" (they've since fixed, without comment, the first misspelling, but haven't caught the second one yet, which still names the consulting firm of "Armstrong-Zunida").

It would also be too much to ask, I suppose, for Suellentrop to actually, say research into the libelous insinuation he poses at the conclusion of his article. He might, for instance, have done a quick check of FEC records (which any campaign that hired Kos would be required to submit--unlike the governmental criminals who funded Williams). Or, indeed, he might even have actually read Kos's blog, where he stated that he took no money from any of the Kos Dozen. But heck, this reporting stuff is hard work...

Uberwanker.
WendellGee | 01.15.05 - 2:04 am | #

We go now to our panel of experts consisting of evangelical fundamentalists, flat earthers and, from the scientific community for balance, proponents of Intelligent Design.

Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 2:05 am | #

When it comes to voter fr--

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz...
dave | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:09 am | #

Wendell--Changing Zunida to Zuniga doesn't fix anything, since anyone who read Kos--or looks at the first sentence on his "About" link--knows his surname is Moulitsas. Or anyone who read his front-page post today. Anyone using Zuniga/Zunida is simply following the WSJ error that Kos responded to immediately.

I know Spanish double surnames can be confusing (especially when one is Greek), but so does Kos so he clears it up with one click.
Draco | 01.15.05 - 2:10 am | #

BTW, brownshirt, there's a job waiting for you...

You might even get to play "Pick Up the Soap" in the showers!
dave | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:10 am | #

Yeah, you are just riding that win streak.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Um, yeah.... don't believe it, then.

I warned you, ya big goof.

You only have lies, braggadocio, and hubris.

I saw with my own eyes what happens to your sort in time. We won my county. We'll win it again.

We made people's lives better by local activism. We are everywhere.

We believe. We'll win.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:11 am | #

I wrote to CNN via the Crossfire e-form... said essentially that it's no wonder the WSJ and CNN are getting their respective asses handed to them by the bloggers -- at least bloggers know the difference between disclosure of receipt of public funds, vs. NON-disclosure of PUBLIC funds...

Damn that James Bath!

I intended to say:

"... disclosure of receipt of PRIVATE funds..."
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:12 am | #

laughing,

I'm guessing you own a corporation, or your in the top 2% of the wealthiest people in America, because they're the only ones that won anything in this election.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 2:12 am | #

Even had Kos (and the 3rd tenor) taken payoffs, how simple-minded do the wingbats consider their readers do be?

I'm obnoxiously opiniated in my politics. So, if Atrios were to wheel even 90 degrees from where familiarity has enabled me to gague where his head and heart are at, I'd recognize it in a split second. As would everyone else.

The fact this phoney baloney "scandal" has been manufactured in such maladroit fashion leads me to suspect many millions more tax dollars have been misappropriated, and have lined the pockets of a great many, prominent "neo-con" mediawhores.
Sovereign Eye | 01.15.05 - 2:12 am | #

Meh, being a journalist doesn't make you a Journalist. See exhibiit A: the Slate: all the inadequecies of a Microsoft product with none of the personality.
billoreilyslovechild | 01.15.05 - 2:14 am | #

"Even had Kos (and the 3rd tenor) taken payoffs, how simple-minded do the wingbats consider their readers do be? "

Consider the LGF and Freepers. If they go on their examples, they do not realize that other blogs do have a readership that might not be simple minded.
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:14 am | #

Meanwhile, over at Kos, /DavidNYC nails it.

Nice try, brownshirts... well, actually, pretty lame try. I was just trying to be nice.

You can go back to jerking off in Mommy's basement and trying to avoid putting your money where your mouths are again...
dave | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:20 am | #

America's Memory: If anyone knows where "my" website is, I'd appreciate having the address.

I love when they play coy like that. Wilting little wallflower...
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:21 am | #

America's Mem--

Nobody's really interested and nobody really cares.
dave | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:21 am | #

Draco--Yeah, I noticed that too (though Kos does use the "Zuniga" surname in the name of the consulting firm, adding a little to the confusion). So Suellentrop only compounds his reportorial idiocy--referring to Kos at different points in the piece by three different last names: Zuniga, Zunida, and Moulitsas. Clearly it's just further evidence of Kos's shiftiness and evasiveness. He must be hiding something behind all those confusing names...
WendellGee | 01.15.05 - 2:22 am | #

Hey, laughing,

When can we get together so that you'll let me fuck you up your ass?

I know this is really what you are crying out for by posting here.

So, being the kindhearted soul that I am, I would love to fill (get it?) your need.

E-mail me as to when you and I can get together. And don't worry, if you've run out of K-Y. I can always stop off at the store and buy some.

Oh, and hat, as soon as I'm done with laughing, how about you follow through on that promise you gave me to toss my salad?
Jeremiah Elias | 01.15.05 - 2:24 am | #

So, all is bullshit, until we get an answer to the following question:

Most of the people in this country are racist, homophobic morons.

What can we do to change that?

Until that is addressed and resoved, we will continue to lose ground on all counts.
rhetoricky | 01.15.05 - 2:24 am | #

If anyone knows where "my" website is, I'd appreciate having the address

Here you go dude:

http://tinyurl.com/4xnrj
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 2:24 am | #

Most of the people in this country are racist, homophobic morons.

What can we do to change that?

Sterilization?
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 2:25 am | #

America's Memory: So, you don't know the location of "my" website?

Of course I do, sweetie. We've passed it along via e-mail for the last, oh, 19 hours or so. Doubtless, you'd deny it was yours, but what would we expect from a name-stealin' dirtbag -- honesty?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:26 am | #

If anyone knows where "my" website is, I'd appreciate having the address.

I will not address AM after this post. I would not advise anyone speak to him ever.

AM: I spoke to you about a year ago. We exchanged poems. You were playing exactly the same games as you are now.

You are, genuinely, mentally ill. I am not trying to insult you. I am telling you, flat-out, that you need help. Nobody who is sane behaves as you do. I know you have redeeming qualities. But you are obsessional, deluded, and self-obsessed to a dangerous degree.

Please seek the help of a mental health professional, for your own sake.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:26 am | #

AM, I already gave you the URL.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 2:30 am | #

Put "public money vs. private money" into the equation, and we have it summed out at 100% of the story.

Well, I think also the "illegal vs. legal" aspect is worth considering; after all, it at least appears that Armstrong may have broken "payola" laws and the Bush Administration may have broken the laws prohibiting spending money on government propaganda without specific authority from Congress.
cmdicely | 01.15.05 - 2:30 am | #

AM is most tiresome.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:31 am | #

In case you just thought you were ashamed, I'm makin' sure.

I hate America.
America's Enema | 01.15.05 - 2:31 am | #

America's Memory: A little help would be nice.

See Thersites' post @ 2:26.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:31 am | #

ya know, if America actually *had* a memory, maybe we wouldn't be trying to re-enact the Gilded Age or be bogged down in an un-necessary war.

is it possible America's future is as deranged as America's memory?
America's Malady | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

I haven't read the thread, but I suppose by "prominent bloggers" they mean the assholes nobody on the left read--people like Reynolds and the dickheads who write Powerline and Whizbang.
patriotboy | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

I'm hating the whole "wanker" thing.

Seriously. It's a conspiracy.

Pusillanimous Wanker | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

Who played Commodore Decker, and in what episode?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

America's Memory

You are a bit off. Do you realize that instead of piling on the Liberal's, lately it has been all about you.
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

Who was Commodore Decker's son, and when did he first appear?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:38 am | #

Oh my! Oh me Oh my!
Wow! a chimp in a gourd we have
It thinks it will thirst
And lead us to water.

But it is only rabid
Fomenting disgust.
And dredging the river.
oh me. oh my, oh eye.

It sees everything in frontof it
But can't see itself.
But all it sees
Is light from the back.
Travel Candle | 01.15.05 - 2:39 am | #

for the record, 2004 (if we accept the vote count as certified on the 6th,) was the fourth CLOSEST race in American presidential election history. Bush II "beat" Kerry by a teeny tiny 2.46%, compare that to some of the biggest wins, like FDR's whopping TWENTY FIVE percent margin (popular vote, of course--which Bush II "won" by a negative number in 2000.)

also, in the top five counties to go for Kerry, one is in TEXAS, another in ALABAMA. yes, you heard that correctly.

facts & figures at uselectionatlas.org (free.)

starve a troll, freep a freeper,
-L.

and, as ever, Mandate? MY ASS.

(and for whomever is planning to invade my state--PA--if you can promise to unseat Sen. Rick Man-on-Dog Santorum, we are willing to accept collateral damage.)
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:39 am | #

Concerning the Kos non-story, wasn't it also alleged recently that there was something underhanded about Atrios appearing on Air America?

Who is the intended audience for these smears? Kos and Atrios readers knew what was going on - they wrote about it! Everyone commented on it! We were not deceived by our bloggers and we are not going to be convinced by insinuations from the clueless.

As everyone pointed out upthread, this is just a smoke screen for the ignorant masses. Lying, cheating, stealing, torture, murder - no biggy, everyone does it. Move along, nothing to see here.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 2:41 am | #

All those citing the noise machine are correct. Rightwing radio was bloviating about this non-issue today as well (Clear Channel, coast to coast).

There's another dimension to this as well: Kos and Armstrong's sites are personal; they pay to run the sites; and the only way anyone is going to read any commentary or spin, positive or otherwise, about any individual or issue, on their sites is by making a conscious effort to seek out information by going to those sites.

Williams, on the other hand, used the private real estate owned by others (syndicated print column inches) and paid by for others (subscribers) and the public airwaves owned by all of us to spread propaganda he had been paid to spread.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 2:42 am | #

(and for whomever is planning to invade my state--PA--if you can promise to unseat Sen. Rick Man-on-Dog Santorum, we are willing to accept collateral damage.)

That rat-bastard is at %38 for his reelection numbers. He's dogmeat. I'm on the NY/PA border: dump Santorum, reelect Hillary, piss off the wingnuts. That's my war plan.

I think we'll do it, too.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:44 am | #

BadJim

It was Atrios taking the Media Matters job that was somehow unethical. But I couldn't get any of the trolls who would driveby this charge to make any sense of it.
Carpbasman | 01.15.05 - 2:44 am | #

I doubt either of these guys made claims to impartiality.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 2:44 am | #

On Spanish surnames: the new prime minister of Spain is properly Rodriguez Zapatero; calling him just "Zapatero" is like calling Kos "Zuniga" (I think).
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 2:47 am | #

also, in the top five counties to go for Kerry, one is in TEXAS, another in ALABAMA. yes, you heard that correctly.

Damn straight! Travis County was all about Kerry...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:49 am | #

Thanks, Carpbasman. Yeah, it still doesn't change the point. We read these guys because they're political advocates, after all. Who's asking us if we think we've been misled?

Of course, if it turned out that Black and Drum didn't actually own cats that would be another matter.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 2:50 am | #

it occurs to me that we may actually end up being thankful that this place has so often been such a punch-fest, sometimes even an honest and well meaning, even a productive, punch-fest. it strengthens the immunity, knock on pressboard. Kos appears to be under attack from without and within...very rough on the thin of skin.

this time last year (around the time of my first dropping by here, BTW,) i would totally have disregarded anyone claiming that young Republicans were encouraged to "troll"...i would have chalked up any and all such activity to individual psych cases.

then i got my damn name "stoled" once or twice.

i see things differently these days.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:50 am | #

I guess you all know they're creating this non-story to take attention away from the administration using taxpayer money to push the Bush agenda.

Has it gotten sickening enough how they keep getting away with it? It's perverse.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 2:51 am | #

Get your outrage meter here
BOHICA | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:52 am | #

Or rather, the Bush administration using taxpayer money to pay Armstrong Williams, supposedly an independent journalist or pundit, to push the administration's agenda.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 2:55 am | #

Speaking of sheep
It's time you counted
The time you've mounted.
I don't think the clock is thankful.

Drunken time pieces
Often slur the moments
But even an insult
Can't last forever.

So, account the time.
It's late to pay.
So deep a debt.
For the rest of us.
Travel Candle | 01.15.05 - 2:55 am | #

Incog - what's sickening is that this one is so patently false and easy to refute. But they're not being paid to tell the truth. Even if by now some journo has bothered to even email kos to inquire about it, how many different nationwide airings did it get before then? 10? 20? 50?

I'd love to see kos sue for defamation, because that's what it is.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 2:56 am | #

America's Memory: In fact, speaking of my Unka Carl, perhaps I should get a hold of him to find out where my website is.

It's your dick, dick. Get your own tweezers and scanning electron microscope.

Or just call someone who cares. Or go play in traffic.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:58 am | #

Or rather: Or rather, the Bush administration using taxpayer money to pay Armstrong Williams--supposedly an independent journalist or pundit--to push the administration's agenda.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 2:59 am | #

Any FOIA requests gone out on Drudge yet? He posted the Kos story early on but has gone strangely quiet about it, given the rising shitsorm. Curious...

Also, does this mean we can start screaming about Instahack taking money from the wingnut front-organization that runs TechCentralStation?
WendellGee | 01.15.05 - 3:01 am | #

Ô¿Ô

It just proves the heat is ramping up. I am going to stretch a bit, they are buying time and that is all. If I were a republican politician, I would be reining in the Prez, Rove, Cheney and their top tier people. Bush is going to pretty much destroy any Republican's long term plans for keeping his/her office.
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:02 am | #

Incog - what's sickening is that this one is so patently false and easy to refute. But they're not being paid to tell the truth.

They have got to finally be held accountable before they stop. Kos should sue everyone of their sorry asses off.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:02 am | #

Oh and how is String?
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:03 am | #

Or rather: They have got to finally be held accountable before they will ever stop.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:04 am | #

Gee, "Jeffraham", you don't have the address, either? Imagine that - I come in just at the very moment when "watertiger" chooses to leave, when he/she has the key to unlock my Internet memories.

Gosh darnit - all the bad luck.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 3:04 am | #

EkCenTriK: Oh and how is String?

... and is he still playing bass these days?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:04 am | #

I've finally seen the genius of the Bush doctrine. I call it "Kill the Un-free."

If a group of people, for example the Iraqis, are not free, well then we move in and kill them, or at least facilitate their killing. Then, when the smoke has cleared, more people, by percentage, are free than before. Ergo, more freedom.

For example, if their are ten people, and two are "Un-free," then eighty percent of the people are free. Then, BushCo. moves in, and helps kill the two "Un-free" people, and then you've got a one-hundred percent freedom rate. Freedom is on the march!!

Kill the Un-free. It gets results.
Drunkenstein | 01.15.05 - 3:06 am | #

.
CHEER UP!

"Some Amusing News"
.
cosa nostradamus | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:06 am | #

America's Memory

Tell you what, when you ask for that stupid address, I will remind you that people are dying. Which is more important?
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:06 am | #

Geeze, AM, still at it.

God you're tenacious.

Your boss must love you.
Carpbasman | 01.15.05 - 3:06 am | #

AM: You have missed the point. By pretending the site isn't yours, it's a given that you will deny it's yours, so nobody gives a fuck. We've decided. You don't figure into the equation on this, at all.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:07 am | #

Wow, a few hours ago bloggers were celebrating the firing of 4 CBS journalists. Now the MSM journalists are celebrating the end of bloggers' credibility.

The New Democrat
Ricky | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:10 am | #

I would just like to point out that we have 2 Armstrongs in this story now, Armstrong Williams and Jerome Armstrong. I have benn getting confused when someone just says Armstrong.
lydia | 01.15.05 - 3:12 am | #

Jim--i think WE ARE the intended audience.

the point is to disrupt any kind of flow of information, any means of communication or organization which can't be easily kept under control.

i am not a much for the history of warfare, but sowing dissention and distrust and confusion in the ranks of one's opponent is, i'm pretty sure, a tactic as old as the hills.

there has been a history here, that whenever something activist or positive gets near critical mass, the attacks come thick as flies.

if people like Atrios & Kos et al, and the forums they provide, were not at least some degree of threat, they would leave us mostly alone (well, except for the one or two home-grown puppy trolls that are always around.)

it isn't that millions (or hell, even thousands--hundreds?) of people congregate HERE, but "here" is a lynchpin, a possible bottle-neck target in the free flow of ideas. lots of people bring things here from all over, and lots of us take those things and toss them along to any number of other people (facts, gossip, ideas...maybe mostly just HOPE.) think about how agressively they used to go after the independent owners of small printing presses...

the confusion forces groups into an either/or mind-set: either we all agree, in nearly lock-step fashion, even if it is not the best choice, or we seem to maybe be trolls. the trick is to avoid BOTH. constructive debate and a plurality of views are healthy.

everyone has their own radar, but for me, if someone only attacks or tears down, but has nothing of their own to offer...well, i'm not saying that makes them some kind of "plant", but it does make me wonder why they hang around.

well, also, after a while, you just get to know how some people normally interact, so you know if they've been "borrowed." writing styles, emails & homepages can be copied along with sigs, but they are just no damn good at copying real people.

it is probably somewhat effective at scaring new folk away, though.

"Who is the intended audience for these smears?"

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:13 am | #

Oh and how is String?
EkCenTriK

I just fed him again and he's crunching away right now. I worry about him getting out. When I come home, he's always at the front door and he's extremely quick and he has an interest in being outside. Sometimes I have packages in my arms and he's hard to shoo away with my feet. He also likes to mimic or follow me so he wants to go out the front door, too. That wouldn't be a problem but for the first couple/few months of his life, he was wild as fuck and of course he still has a wild streak. I fear he may bound out the front door and then freak. He would be impossible to catch if he panics. He's not like a little domesticated kitten that was ever wild.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:19 am | #

I think that world peace is a worthy goal that all peoples can get behind. Otherwise, what would we have? World Wars? I think not!

Anyway, I think that Britney Spears is emblamatic of the can do spunk that we all wish our children had. Would that all our children wre multi-millionaires! And all of our children (the guys to!) should be reminded of Ms. Spears so that they are reminded of what they are capable of.

Oh, and Republicans are mean. But the Democrats can be just as mean to!
Britney has never been to Atrios, I tell you!
Atrios Essay Contest | 01.15.05 - 3:19 am | #

Actually, we don't have two Armstrongs in the story now. We have one, Armstrong Williams, who portrayed himself as an independent pundo-journalist, while all the while pimping for Bush on the taxpayer's dime.

There's another guy named Jerome Armstrong who runs a blog and who did some paid consulting work for Howard Dean, but that was in the open, he didn't pimp for Dean since he shuttered his site while doing the consulting work after informing his readers that he was now in Dean's employ, and Dean didn't pay him with taxpayer funds. Unless it's suddenly become "news" that political candidates hire consultants and pay them with money they have raised from donors for campaigning, or the practice has secretly been declared illegal or unethical, this guy has nothing to do with the story - that would be the one about illegal use of public funds for partisan propaganda.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 3:20 am | #

Librarian, even though you have failed in your informational scientitifical duties to provide your patron with the material he seeks, I must say again that I am blown away at how you've uncovered the conspiracy to take down Eschaton and Dailykos. I can't tell you how good it feels to get that off of my sunken, teenage chest.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 3:20 am | #

bad jim and Wendell--I asked about Zapatero's surname at dKos when he was elected, having learned the "rule" that a man using both names should be called by the first. Turns out it's not a rule but a "rule," and the Hispanics who responded all agreed it was arbitrary, depending on individual preference. Zap prefers his matronym though he includes the patromyn; plainly the matronym is more distinctive. Pablo Ruiz Picasso did the same thing, partially because he preferred Catalan nationalism to Spanish monarchy, and also to avoid confusion with his painter father.

Kos is a bit odd because he reverses the patronym/matronym order in his full name and still takes the matronym. But not that odd--apparently the practice is standard among the Portuguese and not uncommon among Hispanics. It makes especial sense for an American like Kos, since maiden names are often given as middle names here. I know that doesn't clear things up, but the point is that Hispanics have their choice of two surnames and Kos uses Moulitsas.

As for my previous post to Wendell, I had trouble getting Atrios' link and assumed Suellentrop had been calling Kos Zuniga, as I'd seen at other sites, including Pandagon (!?!). I stand by my point that people using Zuniga are following the WSJ, but Suelly himself was mostly correct in his usage (except for the 2 original "Zunida" foul-ups--do it twice and it's not a typo).
Draco | 01.15.05 - 3:22 am | #

I'm a sick fuck, aren't I?

When you read my posts, don't you just hear my voice as a mix of Peter Lorre's child molesting character in "M", and Tony Perkin's character in "Psycho"?

I know I do, and I should...

Because I'm a sick fuck.

..coming mother.
America's Memory Hole | 01.15.05 - 3:30 am | #

I wouldn't go so far as to say that there are paid trolls. I do think that trolls feel like they have a vested interest, for their idiot troll reasons, in the success of this administration and the trolls believe the ends justify the means and that's the low caliber of people they are by the methods they use.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:30 am | #

Thersites--the hope, it seems, is that Casey Jr. will give it a go. he polls WAY better than Santorectum. of course, most folk in PGH and Philly would probably vote for a piece of fuzz or a pebble over Rick Santorum. i have bad feelings that he is a made man in Neo-con land, and if he is not halted in '06, we may see him make a run at the White House. trouble is, word is that Casey does not want to run...i can't say for sure how true that may or may not be, it's just the scuttle.

"That rat-bastard is at %38 for his reelection numbers."

and Mr. Candle, thanks for the poetry. poetry is always appropriate. also, it has been known to literally BORE trolls to DEATH. poetry, or the Worst of Bob Dylan also, pretty much anything that pre-dates 1985 will do in a pinch.

it's late and i'm feeling a little maudlin, and many folks who deserve the praise are not here at the moment (a couple are, though,) so i would like to say that on a couple few occassions, this place has turned nearly transcendental--often in the face of massive troll attack. and it has been an unexpected joy to stumble across it on those days.

they may take our lives, but they'll never take our BAD POETRY.

you know they hate us for our freedoms.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:32 am | #

Librarian, I sincerely doubt that we're the intended audience. The hordes at dKos and Eschaton already know what our hosts are up to, and generally approve. At worst it might incline us to be less generous if & when the next fund-raiser starts.

I further doubt that it will have much effect on potential visitors to weblogs, since if anything it raises their visibility. "An alternative liberal news source? Where?" It might encourage some easy cynicism among those too lazy to hunt up a link, but that's probably not a big problem.

Most likely it's just the usual smokescreen that gets thrown up whenever someone on their side gets caught, like the cloud of ink a squid expels when attacked.

They want the media to conflate Williams and Kos to turn it into the usual "he said/she said" story.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 3:32 am | #

America's Meomory is that brief moment of warm pain you feel when you pass the most pungent of gasses.

And you think to yourself, "Oh, God that is going to stink."

And then the fascinated moment when you realize just how bad it smells.

That's America's Memory
Atrios Essay Contest | 01.15.05 - 3:35 am | #

Britney has never been to Atrios, I tell you!
Atrios Essay Contest

sad, amateurish attempt by a first time troll.

don't worry little guy, I'm sure when you hit puberty, you'll be back, and I am certan you'll do a marginally less horrible job of it next time!

good luck on that puberty thing.
Awww buck up lil' troll dude | 01.15.05 - 3:37 am | #

Don't diss Britney, she is the apex of teen ambtion.

That's why no adult would wish her life on anybody.
Atrios Essay Contest | 01.15.05 - 3:40 am | #

I disagree with the equivalency drawn between a pungent fart and America's Memory.

A pungent fart cannot be ignored.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 3:41 am | #

Jennifer,

What you say is true but it still doesn't mean that I know immediatly which Armstrong a poster is refering to. I merely wanted to alert people that using Armstrong alone now could be confusing.
lydia | 01.15.05 - 3:42 am | #

Jennifer: I disagree with the equivalency drawn between a pungent fart and America's Memory.

A pungent fart cannot be ignored.

But they can both be set alight!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:43 am | #

Librarian:

Santorum will lose, whoever the candidate is. Kerry won PA because we were damn smart and tough at the polls: they tried damn hard to steal PA, but we beat those bastards back. Unions are still strong in PA. The organization has not gone away, and we had the whole motherfucking state WIRED.

They tried to steal PA, but LOST. Specter had to run away from Shrub to win. Never believe for a minute that doesn't make these creeps sweat and whimper.

Doggie-boy is OVER.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:44 am | #

Much thanks, Draco! Make a half-baked assertion, get a healthy serving of information. I love this place.

As it happens I was in Madrid about a month after Zapatero's election (and the train bombings) and at the time the papers seemed to be using both names.

It's kind of neat to have a choice of names.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 3:45 am | #

Jeffraham - true. Similarity ends there though, as only the pungent fart will successfully clear the room.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 3:45 am | #

Jennifer: Similarity ends there though, as only the pungent fart will successfully clear the room.

Yeah... even alight, only one will burn with a pure, blue flame, too.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:47 am | #

I disagree with the equivalency drawn between a pungent fart and America's Memory.

A pungent fart cannot be ignored.

You're so witty and original, Jennifer - for a dame, that is.

It's great seeing you again. I've been thinking about that crystal brew daily during our long time apart. If only I could taste a single drop of priceless Dasani.

I beg you to bestow upon me a bottle of it.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 3:47 am | #

EkCenTriK, how are your critters doing?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:48 am | #

OT--Now that the Goldberg-inspired issue of Steve Gilliard's melanin pigmentation has been clarified, does anyone know how SG's last name is pronounced? The profile at his site isn't working. and I've always pronounced it the French way, zheel-YARD. But it might be JILL-yerd or GILL-yerd or other freedom-inspiring un-French variations.
Draco | 01.15.05 - 3:49 am | #

Oh god that's gonna stink...
Atrios Essay Contest | 01.15.05 - 3:53 am | #

But they can both be set alight!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian

We did that one night tripping on acid. This one girl we were with needed to fart and wanted us to set it on fire when it came out. We agreed since it seemed the most logical thing to do at the time. So she pulled her pants down and got on all fours and another friend held his bic lighter to her ass. Sure enough, they do light up but he burned the ring of her asshole and gave her a little blister accidently touching it with the hot metal of the bic holding it lit.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:56 am | #

That's quite the story, there.

Ouch!
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:58 am | #

Are we discussing farts? I can't sleep. Have to be back at work in 3 hours and I can't sleep.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:00 am | #

Ô¿Ô: We did that one night tripping on acid.

You crazy kids, today, with your acid and farting.

Specking of ACID, has anyone upgraded to ACID Pro 5.0? And how do we like it?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:02 am | #

Er, "Spackling," I mean.

.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:02 am | #

Are we discussing farts? I can't sleep. Have to be back at work in 3 hours and I can't sleep.
Hecate

Sorry to hear that, Hecate. My partner has insomnia, and it's a pain in the ass for her...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:02 am | #

Jim--i think you are right about that, too.

it is a standard Rovian maneuver to cloud the issue, attack a strength, and project your own faults onto the other guys/gals.

but i also think, the more that MSM credibility comes into question in the common discourse, the more people seek alternative sources of information, and they would not want those people to turn up here, be welcome, and feel comfortable.

we can't have them thinking there is anything to learn or do on their own in an active way, can we? can't have the people feeling empowered, not even a little.

but i wonder how many people there really are who watch CNN, are not already involved in any online forum, but might have been inclined to look for one, except that they are helpfully being told that it is all "black ops bloggers"? i have no idea, myself.

but they know that we do watch.

so attacking people like Kos potentially wounds a number of birds with the same stone.

"They want the media to conflate Williams and Kos to turn it into the usual "he said/she said" story."

meanwhile, every time ANY Dem leader sticks their head up above the water line, there seems to be some need to find fault--and we can always find fault, we are good at that. so it is pretty easy to push us in that direction. it turns our own strength against ourselves.

to paraphrase the Father of All Found Poetry: We don't go into the new Legislative Session with the Congress we want, we go in with the Congress we HAVE. might could be a good idea to pick a few folks to support.

we also must continue with the people and structures that we have, which will never be perfect or without fault.

face the music, and dance.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:03 am | #

People call Gilliard "Gilly", which suggests a hard "g".

I'm pretty sure that I knew how it was pronounced at one time, but at the moment I'm back in the fog of uncertainty, which happens all too often.

It was damned odd to find many of his readers expressing surprise that he was black, since he not only makes no secret of it, it's the entire point of many of his posts.

(He's also a bit heavy and has been hospitalized with heart trouble.)

Ah, well, who ever said that liberals weren't colorblind?
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 4:03 am | #

does anyone know how SG's last name is pronounced?

SMITH.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:05 am | #

rorschach,

I usually fall asleep instantly. Tonight, not so much. Too wound up from work. Having stupid, insecure cocounsel is the worst thing in the world....
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:05 am | #

Do I have to inform media of my many outlets? It takes a lots of Depends. And I still leak.
-Liddy Dole
bebe rebozo | 01.15.05 - 4:07 am | #

bad Jim: (He's also a bit heavy and has been hospitalized with heart trouble.)

I think I started reading Steve's newsblog a couple of weeks before he went in the hospital... man, it sounds like it was rough. Anyway, I read here for a long time before I actually started down the list of blogs on Atrios' homepage; Steve's was one of the keepers.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:08 am | #

And, if we're talking about acid, I've never done it, but I'd like to do it someday, I think.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:08 am | #

rorschach,

I usually fall asleep instantly. Tonight, not so much. Too wound up from work. Having stupid, insecure cocounsel is the worst thing in the world....

Ugh. I can imagine.

I hate it when nerves keep me up...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:09 am | #

Speaking of methane, why is the moon Titan all methane and why doesn't it explode? Is it because there is no oxygen?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:12 am | #

And, if we're talking about acid, I've never done it, but I'd like to do it someday, I think.

You definitely should. Just make sure it's clean, and that you have a safe and comfy place to do it.

I've done it more times than I can count, but haven't for a few years...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:12 am | #

Speaking of methane, why is the moon Titan all methane and why doesn't it explode? Is it because there is no oxygen?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:12 am | #

Having stupid, insecure cocounsel is the worst thing in the world

Man, I hate that. I mean, I'm not a lawyer, butb I do have education, experience, expertise, and I hate being saddled with a schmuck.

What do I do? A visualization exercise, to bring me peace.

I visualize whether or not if I jammed a pencil up his nostril, if I would kill him or merely mentally retard him for life.

Detached contemplation of such factors as how sharp the pencil is, the proper angle, wondering whether or not it would help if I grabbed the back of the head and pushed it downwards -- would that maximize the effect?...

Zen and the art of white-collar homicide: I should write a book!
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:15 am | #

If we could get out to the big gas giant planets, we would have all the energy we would ever require. Of course, we would also need oxygen which would be expensive to produce.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:15 am | #

An observation. The "Republican Noise Machine" threw out some trash to get us all talking about something other than who ELSE besides Armstrong Williams was on the take -- AND IT WORKED.

No, it didn't. Not really. There are about a 1000 FOI requests floating around DC right now.

And the FCC is opening an investigation of Williams for "payola" violations. He's in big trouble.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:16 am | #

Hecate,

Not that it will help tonight, but have you tried kava?

It works pretty well for me, and doesn't leave me feeling hung over like valerian.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 4:16 am | #

You definitely should. Just make sure it's clean, and that you have a safe and comfy place to do it.

Did you get to read about my bad acid experience?
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:16 am | #

I visualize whether or not if I jammed a pencil up his nostril, if I would kill him or merely mentally retard him for life.

That made me laugh. You couldn't retard this guy any more than he already is, but killing would be good. Course, you'd then have to throw away a perfectly good pencil...
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:17 am | #

Our plants and green algae fart and make oxygen.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:18 am | #

Thersites, you are SO great. Thank the Lord that you're here to share that greatness with us.

Amen!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 4:18 am | #

Thersites--your words to the Goddess's ear!

"Doggie-boy is OVER."

he certainly got a round booing in these parts when his name was brought up at the Kerry rallies over the summer...even out in the Fundie lands 'round Greensburg.

and you ain't lyin' 'bout the trouble we had with voting in some places. i was kind of proud of us, actually. and you know we threw out HALF of the Provisional Ballots cast, statewide. how many more of those do you think were for Kerry?

but this race will be an all out from the Republican side--money, people on the ground, you name it. they will NOT want to lose that bastard. the sooner we have a strong candidate the better i will feel--i honestly do not care WHO they put up, they'll be getting my window/yard space, my money and my efforts (such as they are.) anyone need a copy of "Bob Roberts" to get in the mood? Barnes & Nobles has 'em cheap. worth it, just for the fake songs.

and good morning Hecate. i haven't slept properly myself since 11/2. and since yesterday the temps here have gone from 70 (one degree short of the all time record,) to under 20, with a massive shift in barometer, and so my head feels like someone is trying to inflate the Zeppellin inside my sinus cavity. if i take any more hot showers for the steam, i'm going to risk par-boiling myself. but at least i don't have to work tomorrow--i feel sorry for you. that absolutely sucks.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:18 am | #

If we could get out to the big gas giant planets, we would have all the energy we would ever require.

I'm as gung-ho about slowly boiling Limbaugh in vegetable oil as anyone, but I think you're being overly optimistic.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:18 am | #

CS,

I haven't tried kava. My problem always is that I think I WiLL get to sleep so I don't take, for example, the Valerian I've got. Then, when I realize I'm not going to be able to get to sleep, it's too late to take anything and still get up in time. I should have known to take something.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:20 am | #

Zen and the art of white-collar homicide: I should write a book!
Thersites

Can I collaborate with you? While putting together my smiting list I came up with all kinds of ingenious ways to kill fuckheads.

Also, what you're saying about local politics in your area is spot-on. And that's exactly why they're trying to derail Dean.

While everyone else was farting around this election season, Dean and Democracy for America worked on local races- and they won a bunch of them.

Believe me, that kind of approach terrifies the wingers.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:20 am | #

A visualization exercise, to bring me peace.

I visualize whether or not if I jammed a pencil up his nostril, if I would kill him or merely mentally retard him for life.

Detached contemplation of such factors as how sharp the pencil is, the proper angle, wondering whether or not it would help if I grabbed the back of the head and pushed it downwards -- would that maximize the effect?...

Zen and the art of white-collar homicide: I should write a book!
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:15 am | #

Yours is a strange, but appealing, Enlightenment.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:21 am | #

One of the first "accomplishment" of the repugs in their takeover of our government and now voting systems is the lie that "balance" in journalism is the zenith of objectivity. Of course, journalists paved the way for this years ago by creating the lie that there was this professional code of conduct across all mainstream media where objectivity ruled supreme.

This merely got twisted into balance -- if you present something negative about chimpy, you've got to slander someone else too. Truth became the casualty, but IMHO, this was by design. Could it be that the so-called memogate is the ultimate example of this?

No one can prove the memo was false -- many of the "proofs" that is was were total fabrications -- tinfoil hat stuff. The woman who was in a position to have written that memo proclaimed it not to be her's, but the content was basically true. Chimpy did get preferencial treatment and, based on best evidence, was AWOL.

Was it in the name of "balance" the the story got legs and the swifties dominated the media for weeks? Of course the media did not proclaim this -- but the public has been conditioned to expect a tit-for-tat on these things now. I believe this expectation that bad news about repugs means there needs to be bad news about dems regardless of the merits of each accusation or the weight of the transgression is what made this all popular.

Its clever propaganda -- but we are no longer a democracy when voters are so ill-informed (that is being polite) and the media promotes a particular political agenda.
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 4:21 am | #

Librarian, dear. I must say I am disappointed at your inability to find "my" website for me.

So, if I could make a consolation request, that would be great. Please try to make your posts longer, more self-absorbed, and more paranoid. They're far too terse, objective, and sane right now.

Thanks so much, lambchop!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 4:22 am | #

but this race will be an all out from the Republican side--money, people on the ground, you name it. they will NOT want to lose that bastard. the sooner we have a strong candidate the better i will feel--i honestly do not care WHO they put up, they'll be getting my window/yard space, my money and my efforts (such as they are.)

I know. I want a candidate too. But I don't think they can steal it, if we even half the operation we did in November. I was working around Scranton, through my union, mostly. And we were GOOD.

I'm actually from NY, just over the border. But taking down Santorum... hell yeah, I want in on that.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:23 am | #

Did you get to read about my bad acid experience?

No. I did acid once at a Ted Nugent concert. (it was the 70's, give me a break) For some reason that was no problem.

I did mushrooms at a small party about a month later and totally flipped out.

So ya never know.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:23 am | #

Incog--You need both heat and oxygen to blow up Titan, and all the light spectrum readings ot T have long shown a minimum of that gas. It's also, according to the BBC today, -180C on Titan, which is pretty damn cold even in F. That methane (promounced "MEE-thane on the Beeb) lake is especially intriguing because it looks like some rock-strewn desert oasis, or at worst some Dead Sea-like salt lake. It's only when you think about how cold and oxygen-free the place is, alaong with the liquid methane, that you realize how strange (but recognizable) the place is
Draco | 01.15.05 - 4:24 am | #

No, it didn't. Not really. There are about a 1000 FOI requests floating around DC right now.

And the FCC is opening an investigation of Williams for "payola" violations. He's in big trouble.
fourlegsgood

I don't have any hope, anymore. Not after all this time and not one single outrage out of thousands they've done has ever stuck to them.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:25 am | #

Here's my thought about folks like Novak telling us how bad Dean would be for the Democratic party. If you were playing a game of touch football and the QB from the other side came over and told you that he didn't thin you should pick Bob for a QB, you'd laugh. You know he is trying to make you lose, and you'd go ahead and pick Bob. Now, imagine it's not a football game, but control of the most powerful country and economy in the world. The other side sends over Novak to say, "You shouldn't pick Dean to head your party." Why would anyone listen to that advice?????
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:29 am | #

Shorter America's Memory:

"my" website,
"my" website,
"my" website,
"my" website,
"my" website,
me
me
me
me
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:29 am | #

Ô¿Ô, well, me neither. But his violation is a clear-cut one in terms of the law.

Just how clear-cut is revealed by the fact that pussy-boy Powell and his minions are even investigating.

BTW, I know it's gotten fashionable to bash Kerry, but let's not.

The fact of the matter is that half of the american public are out of their fucking minds. Why else would they vote for that sorry sack of chimp slime?
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:29 am | #

Shrooms have (almost) always been good to me. Acid, well.... It's been a mixed bag. I haven't done Acid in 20 some years, and probably won't do it again. Too damned unpredictable.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 4:30 am | #

While everyone else was farting around this election season, Dean and Democracy for America worked on local races- and they won a bunch of them.

Oh yeah. I had a weird 11/2. I got back from PA, ate, and we were watching the national returns, which were alarming. But then our local station goes to our Assembly candidate's headquarters... and she has beaten this absolute goddamn bastard! Honestly, I had worked for that, but had not really expected it to work. And then it was one local race after another, going our way.

NY is like anywhere else: incumbents do not lose. But we whipped 'em, and we almost won our State Senate race, even though our candidate was a sacrificial lamb.

As soon as you get these weasels face to face, they ain't shit.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:31 am | #

Michael Powell's FCC is investigating Armstrong Williams? What, did he flash a boob?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:31 am | #

The other side sends over Novak to say, "You shouldn't pick Dean to head your party." Why would anyone listen to that advice?????

Nobody sane would. Like I said, they're worried about Dean working to defeat them on the local level. They want to derail him.

Fuck Novakula and his chiclet teeth.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:31 am | #

Jim, i think i meant to add (as if i am not WORDY enough already,)

"The hordes at dKos and Eschaton already know what our hosts are up to, and generally approve. At worst it might incline us to be less generous if & when the next fund-raiser starts."

that if any new people DID turn up, not to mention the silent readers which you never know how many of those are around, and everyone was tightly circled into firing position on each other (or on the host,) it would turn off those potential additional participants. that's another reason why it may be worth it for them to target such places.

(and i do not recommend that anyone try acid for the first time without an experienced and trusted sitter on hand.)

and please let fourlegs be right:

"No, it didn't. Not really. There are about a 1000 FOI requests floating around DC right now."

i hope everyone crossed their "t"'s and dotted their "i"'s...

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:32 am | #

I'm sorry but I'm just so damn cynical now.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:34 am | #

Michael Powell's FCC is investigating Armstrong Williams? What, did he flash a boob?

Oh my fucking god, what a horrible mental picture. Please, no, for the love of god NOOOOOOOO!!!

No, broadcasters are required to disclose if they're being paid for their opinion, there's even a place on the FCC forms to do it.

It dates back to the 60's and the payola scandals when radio-jocks used to extort artists and record companies to "pay for play."

He's kind of fucked, methinks.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:35 am | #

Thersites,

What did you guys do locally to pull that off? It sounds great.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:36 am | #

i hope everyone crossed their "t"'s and dotted their "i"'s...

These wankers are so fucking arrogant I'd bet good money there are other arrangements out there.

They thought they'd never be caught. Hell, if you call the social security line when you're on hold there's a voice spouting bushist propoganda. (I believe I saw that on TPM)

None of this is new.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:38 am | #

If you looked up 'cynical' in the dictionary, the picture beside it would be: Ô¿Ô
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:38 am | #

Librarian,

FOIA requests aren't that technical. The agency can jerk you around for a while and make you wait, but the law is pretty clear cut. And the district courts are pretty good about making the govt. put up or shut up. So it may take time, but eventually the info should come out.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:39 am | #

When chimpy refers to "spending political capital," is he really refering to taking advantage of the lying liars in our media to manipulate the public into supporting his neocon agenda! The flood of lies coming out of this adminstration are only possible because the media refuses to tell the public the facts.

Of course it would not be "fair and balanced" to tell the public the truth about the bush lies -- there just isn't that much dishonesty on the other side to provide balance. This manufactured crisis over Social Security proves that they know the media is in their pocket.

Defending the status quo on health care is going to become difficult and after the repugs push through their tort reform as a solution to the crisis, they are going to need something to distract the public from the fact that this was never the problem in the first place. This is going to take a ton of lies to pull-off, but most won't get reported because you simply cannot find enough on the other side to "balance" it.

Certainly, no one that cannot afford coverage or care now is going to be able to after "tort-reform." But this is chimpy's bizarro world -- up is down and don't look at the king!

Wouldn't it be great to be able to proclaim to the public that Social Security was privatized -- we can't possibly move towards a single-payer, government health care program now (so we will be told). If the people can be convinced that the investment crowd that promoted the Enron business model will now make us all rich (only a few years ago folks) -- the sheeple will not figure this con out for decades.

Oh, and better times will always be just around the corner. Remember, privatization "fixed" the crisis -- don't worry, your retirement investment is a "long-term" thing... OH LOOK!!! THERE'S OSAMA BIN LADEN!!!!
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 4:39 am | #

Billmon and Gilliard got started on dKos, struck out on their own.

Methane burns here because our atmosphere has free oxygen. Take an oxygen tank to Titan if you need a blowtorch.

We eldritch boomers will crucify the Republicans if they renege on the Treasury bonds in the Social Security trust fund - that is, if our Asian creditors haven't already spitted us and eaten our innards.

I'm not sure I could suggest acid in an age that lacks Hendrix, Garcia and half the Beatles. Not to say that I couldn't make do with Beethoven and Schumann, but I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 4:40 am | #

I'm gonna say it for the umpteenth time:

I hate Zephyr Teachout.

With friends like her...

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 4:41 am | #

Hecate, you still up?

Here's a trick that always works for me.

You lay in bed on your back and try to relax your body one body part at a time.

Start with your feet, then your ankles, calves, etc. etc. By the time you get to your shoulders you should be pretty relaxed.

It's kind of a new-agey type of thing I read about years ago. I can also get rid of a headache by making my hands warm (with my mind), but I'll save that trick for another time.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:41 am | #

Wow.

Couldn't sleep.

Actual stuff happens here at 4.30am (ET)

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 4:43 am | #

We eldritch boomers will crucify the Republicans if they renege on the Treasury bonds in the Social Security trust fund - that is, if our Asian creditors haven't already spitted us and eaten our innards.

I trust you mean literally crucify- cause I know I certainly do.

I agree with you on the acid. It can't possibly be fun these days- everyone is too uptight. Back then everything was about loud rock, sex and getting high. Not necessarily in that order.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:44 am | #

What did you guys do locally to pull that off? It sounds great.

Went door to door. Phone calls. Yard signs. The usual stuff: only, with a lot more volunteers, including me, than ever before.

Honestly, a lot was Kerry coattails. Or if not Kerry, Bush has made voting GOP pretty toxic.

And part of it was the local party was smart about local politics, including a local environmental problem, and the continuing failure of the NY lege to pass a budget, which can be hung very easily on Pataki, who is toast.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:45 am | #

4LG,

I'm going to go to bed and try it. Tomorrow's going to come way too soon.

Night all you princes & princesses of Eschaton.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:45 am | #

incog, you're right to be cynical- here in the south I think people are too far gone. Fuck, lot's of them believe jeebus will be here momentarily and the earth is 6,000 years old.

But I think the local approach is a good start in other places. Throw the fuckers out every chance we get. I don't care if the race is for county dog catcher- no rethugs.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:47 am | #

Incog sez:

Michael Powell's FCC is investigating Armstrong Williams? What, did he flash a boob?

No.

Apprently Micheal Powell was enough.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 4:47 am | #

Start with your feet, then your ankles, calves, etc. etc. By the time you get to your shoulders you should be pretty relaxed.

man, that must be time consuming when you have four legs...

I'm off to slumberland too. Slainte!
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:48 am | #

Good luck Hecate.

Am, still mumbling to himself in the corner.

What an asshat.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:48 am | #

I'm not sure I could suggest acid in an age that lacks Hendrix, Garcia and half the Beatles. Not to say that I couldn't make do with Beethoven and Schumann, but I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.

First time I tripped (oh so long ago) I made a point of listening to Vivaldi's The Four Seasons.

Absolutely amazing.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:50 am | #

Methane burns here because our atmosphere has free oxygen. Take an oxygen tank to Titan if you need a blowtorch.

From the first pictures returning from the probe, scientists on the project think that there was rain on Titan today, albeit methane rain. They also believe Titan has a hydrological cycle and weathering like we have here on Earth.

They may just be giddy from all the data coming in, though.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:50 am | #

I am telling you guys, you are pushing this story more than them. Have you not learned anything from the swift boat liars? Complain about Armstrong Williams to the FCC fccinfo@fcc.gov
not wes

You notice this one too? I want to be careful not to sound critical of the "community" here -- the regulars and most visitors post thoughtful, well-reasoned comments (the trolls, not really huge in absolute numbers, post large volumes of crap).

Your point is well taken - we could focus on what is actually happening and talk about ways to take action, like you have. I believe change will not happen unless we hit some of the "big-boys" in their pocket books - but that type of talk seems all but banned here.

Changing consumer patterns shouldn't be that hard -- must be some things we can do without. History shows it works if people have the resolve to make it happen. Just my humble opinion, maybe I got that wrong, just saying...
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 4:50 am | #

Zephyr Teachout????

Zephyr n.
The west wind. a. A gentle breeze.
Something that is airy, insubstantial, or passing.

Like a "blast" from the past seeing the name "Zephyr" Teachout reminds me of the The Great Contest between Lord Windesmere of Whopping Foghole, England and the challenger Boomer (Google windesmere, contest for details without necessarily having to listen to the whole contest).

It hilariously describes the efforts of Boomer positioned hands on a pole in the middle of "boxing" ring breaking wind to unseat the champion with a stylish and strategically placed zephyr window.

The Spirit of Howard Beale | 01.15.05 - 4:50 am | #

man, that must be time consuming when you have four legs...

Actually no, I do all four at once- which makes me sleepy quicker.

It's the laying on the back thing that's a bitch.

Bonne nuit mon amies!
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:51 am | #

I believe change will not happen unless we hit some of the "big-boys" in their pocket books - but that type of talk seems all but banned here.

Not at all. I'm a huge proponent of buying local and paying cash only. I also don't support asshats and I make sure they understand why I don't buy from them.

If everyone did it they'd be hurting.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:53 am | #

I agree with you on the acid. It can't possibly be fun these days- everyone is too uptight. Back then everything was about loud rock, sex and getting high. Not necessarily in that order.
fourlegsgood

Ah, c'mon, fourlegsgood--there's a few folks here I think would make good trip companions...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:53 am | #

rorschach--"shorter" is pretty much spot on (wonder if there is some kind of tasty cookie action going on when you get there?) i am *almost* tempted to reprise my most inappropriate eschaton moment perhaps ever, and post several pages worth of House floor testimony uncut...i knew it was wrong when i did it, but i just couldn't help myself (it took me like 5 posts in a row to do it, to--thankfully not too many real people were around. BOY was that rude of me.)

Thersites--i had a bad feeling that morning, from around 10AM on. i worked that night on the desk, and my intern, bless his hopeful little soul, just kept saying "oh no, don't worry, you'll see, it'll all be good." but we had so many problems with the lines and the machines and the "challengers" and running out of ballots on campus...and i knew it could not be just us that had that shit going down. and i kept getting messages from poll-watching friends around town...

no misunderestimating in '06, i guess that's all i'm saying. precinct level is where it has to be at--and it has to be led by locals. if we were old enough to have worked down south in the 50's & 60's, i guess we would have already known that!

Dean, indeed. i agree.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:53 am | #

G'night Hecate.

Fourlegs,

I learned years ago how to adjust my body temperature in my extremities. To this day I can create as much as ten degrees temperature difference between my left and right hands.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 4:54 am | #

They may just be giddy from all the data coming in, though.

I know I am. I love this stuff. I can watch NASA channel for days.

Unfortunately I don't get it here anymore.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:55 am | #

Confessional mode: I did acid dozens of times while I was a student at Berkeley and for several years thereafter. I got good grades in a difficult subject, I did well in my professional career, and I made an indecent amount of money as a businessman.

Now that I'm prematurely retired, I've got one observation and another question. The observation is that acid isn't particularly threatening to life or mind. The question is, where can I get some? (Don't answer; I've got a nice glass of Rhone wine, a pipe and Mozart on the radio.)
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 4:55 am | #

I have to be up for work in 16 hours.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:56 am | #

Trying to catch-up.

So to Slate

If Moulitsas takes money from political candidates in 2006 and 2008 without telling you who's paying him, stop giving his recommended candidates your dollars. Here's what Moulitsas wrote about payola pundit Armstrong Williams' assertion that "There are others" on the government dole: "Until names are named, we can assume every conservative pundit is on the White House's payola rolls." That's questionable logic, but let's take Moulitsas up on his challenge: Until names are named, we can.

See, Suellentrop is being fair.

And what more can we ask of the SCLM but be fair.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 4:56 am | #

Bon voyage and fromage your merde!
America's Memory

Must you always be a horse's ass?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:58 am | #

I learned years ago how to adjust my body temperature in my extremities. To this day I can create as much as ten degrees temperature difference between my left and right hands.

Cool. Now I know I'm not the only freak around.

It's just simple bio-feedback. I've never measured the temperature difference but it's noticeable. I've never tried to do my feet.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 5:00 am | #

Not at all. I'm a huge proponent of buying local and paying cash only. I also don't support asshats and I make sure they understand why I don't buy from them.

Good for you, brother! Now tell me the chain of local, progressive companies you employ to get your data to and from the Haloscan servers, as I'm looking for an ethically pure means of using the Internet as well.

Guide me. Please.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:00 am | #

Geez, AM is hanging onto every little scrap of hope that it can get something started here tonight.

P.S.

AM, don't bother responding bitch, 'cause I'm not gonna stick around to hear your lameass response.

Everyone else, goodnight.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 5:00 am | #

rorschach, I'm sure there are, I just wouldn't be any fun.

bad jim, hey, we all have our pasts, eh? I'll still never do mushrooms again.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 5:03 am | #

America's Memory, they know about a lot more subjects than I do but I don't feel intimidated or anything. I'm just curious and interested in what they know and what they write.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:05 am | #

I wish they would correct my grammar but they would never do that.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:07 am | #

America's Memory, I would rather read what they have to [say] than you disrupting this board.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:09 am | #

Anyway, I think that Britney Spears is emblamatic of the can do spunk that we all wish our children had. Would that all our children wre multi-millionaires! And all of our children (the guys to!) should be reminded of Ms. Spears so that they are reminded of what they are capable of.

So heres the problem with Social Security -- our childrens are just doing their jobs and earning millions -- this would greatly increase the revenues into the system. Well, it would up to a point, and only if they didn't figure out a way not to pay in...

The problem is that slacker generation -- they should all dress up as sexy as can be while they are 12, utilize digital technology to enhanse their voice, and earn millions so I can get my social security check. After all, isn't that what my generation did?
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 5:09 am | #

America's Memory is shitty drunk.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:10 am | #

America's Memory is shitty drunk.

Whta makkes you sayy thatt? Dont be ridiculolous.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:13 am | #

America's Memory: My request for penis smoke control instruction still stands.

I can tell you which end goes in your mouth.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:14 am | #

I've done it more times than I can count (referring to dropping acid)

Is that because you have just done so damn much or is it because you have only done a little but it has affected you coginitive skills. Just asking -- please don't take offense. I am not trying to make a statement about the use of LSD or any other drug.

Our current drug policy -- clearly doesn't work. I couldn't find this stuff if I wanted to now (has been the case for many, many years), but I hear that most kids can. Their are obscene amounts of money being made and who knows where that cash goes and what if funds. The "war on drugs" only gets the "little guy" and costs the rest of us a fortune -- especially with this "3 strikes" crap.
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 5:16 am | #

'night Hecate.
'night Thersites.
'night fourlegs.

'night moon!

good morning Spork.

on This Day in Tolkien, January 15th, The Fellowship discovers the tomb of Balin, and the sad chronicle of the doomed attempt to reclaim Moria from the Orcs--"Drums. Drums in the deep. We cannot get out."

later on there is the fight & flight to the Bridge of Khazad-Doom, "You Shall Not Pass!" where Gandalf falls, fighting with the Balrog of Morgoth.

(of course we know that he wins in the end, and comes back to lead his friends to victory.)

and, as ever, the orcs are jealous of the light, but it hurts them--so they both desire and hate it.

*

mr. bill--no talk is "banned." respect offered = respect returned.

you have some good points there, but i would not paint ALL journalists with the same broad brush:

"Of course, journalists paved the way for this years ago by creating the lie that there was this professional code of conduct across all mainstream media where objectivity ruled supreme."

there are plenty of individual reporters, working mainly in obscurity, who really do want to be "objective". their owners are the Big Problem. what are we down to now--6? we need them, like it or not.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:16 am | #

I can tell you which end goes in your mouth.

A penis has two ends? The things I learn here!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:16 am | #

G'... zzzzzzzzzz
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:17 am | #

Greetings, all. Obviously the fun from last night at dinner time is still going on. I think Ô¿Ô is right.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:19 am | #

Is there an HTML tag to stream farts online? Does HaloScan support it. Do I need Windows XP to support it or is this a Mac thing?
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 5:21 am | #

Ô¿Ô -

Yeah man, that was a helluva story. LOL I've done some really stupid (abeit real logical at the time) things on acid in my time also.

But blistering yer asshole ring with the Bic? How do you explain that?

I'm real glad I didn't have a mouthful of coffee at the time I read it. I have a spare keyboard and monitor so, no worries.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 5:21 am | #

Why don't you just [shut the fuck up] so I can read what some other worthwhile, earnest and interesting people have to say? You're not stupid but goddamn, give it a fucking rest, will you? I don't pay a whole $20 each month for Internet service just to wade through your insecurities.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:24 am | #

Is that because you have just done so damn much or is it because you have only done a little but it has affected you coginitive skills. Just asking -- please don't take offense. I am not trying to make a statement about the use of LSD or any other drug.

Actually, no study has ever shown LSD to have any negative impact on cognitive skills whatsoever...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:25 am | #

America's Memory needs a big hard dick in his ass.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:26 am | #

'mornin', Librarian,

Should I start the day's festivities with a little BoBo?

Eh, no.

Kristoff?

Look, I'm only through the NYTimes so far.

Maybe the WaPo will be better.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 5:27 am | #

spork--Or some warmed up catblogging, perhaps?
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:29 am | #

America's Memory needs a big hard dick in his ass.

Only as long as its Tena's, my friend. She has a sweet cock.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:29 am | #

BTW, I know it's gotten fashionable to bash Kerry, but let's not.

IMHO, Kerry was between a rock and a hard place anyhow. While I am sure he had access to better polls than those espoused by Fox and the SCLM, he had to make so decisions on how to present himself and how to respond. I respect his intelligence and his decisions.

He came close and no one can actually "prove" he lost. Talk about election fraud will not be well recieved here -- neither will mention of the need for transparency in our election. Just my opinion based on what I have repeatedly read here -- I could be wrong.

We do need to discuss the outcomes and what could have been done differently. Reasonable people can disagree if he was the best candidate or if he long political career (which I respect) is a liability in the "fair and balanced" (NOT!) age. I hope we can do this without bashing him or being percieved as bashers.
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 5:30 am | #

Make sure theres a ball gag in his mouth too, Ô¿Ô.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 5:30 am | #

Only as long as its Tena's, my friend. She has a sweet cock.
America's Memory

Say what?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:30 am | #

Say what?

You didn't know that Tena is a pre-operative transexual? You should hang around more often.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:33 am | #

aha! this was a rhetorical question, right?

"Must you always be a horse's ass?"

you made me spit soda, laughing with that, by the way, so thanks!

(i guess you should probably blame AM for the lack of grammar correcting you are experiencing here!)

and 'night now too to CS, it would seem.

where's the damn day crew? we need to hand over the keys.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:33 am | #

Morning People.

Jesus you guys are up late/early. Its just before midnight saturday down here so at least I have an excuse. About 25 Celsius and I can't fucking sleep, so I'm hoping cold gin will see me right.

Hmmmmm, gin.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 5:34 am | #

Only as long as its Tena's, my friend. She has a sweet cock.
-America's Memory

It's just the hallucinations, Ô¿Ô. Either that, or it's playing around with a tranny it decided to name Tena.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 5:35 am | #

AM certainly is an adorable little ball of neuroses...

Yeah, Librarian, where is that day crew?
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:36 am | #

rorschach -

saw 'em last night, looked at 'em again.

Damn fine artistic kitties you got goin' on!

An' I don' know why I'm writing with an " ' " so much.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 5:38 am | #

It's Satuday. They're sleeping in.
Backslider | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:39 am | #

It's time to wake and bake. Who's in?
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 5:39 am | #

In bed probably.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 5:39 am | #

AM certainly is an adorable little ball of neuroses...

I know! And to think I'm just a teenager! Wow!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:40 am | #

It's time to wake and bake. Who's in?
Barndog

Sigh. If only I could--but a nasty case of bronchitis rules that out, alas.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:41 am | #

spork, filkertom, someone please take the keys--we are clearly too drunk to drive! and i fear that Jeffraham has passed out on the bathroom floor...

last night at dinner time, indeed. i'll have you know i did not come back here until nearly 2 ET.

it just happens sometimes, i guess.

was there a party?

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:42 am | #

Not at all. I'm a huge proponent of buying local and paying cash only. I also don't support asshats and I make sure they understand why I don't buy from them.

Sounds good -- I have read some threads that suggest others don't see this as the purpose of this site. I guess only atrios actually speaks for eschaton and I don't think I have seen him take a position (other than to call Sinclair and a maybe a few more wankers).

Unfortunately, buying local is not always an option and frequently the local people that are left are not really any different than the Walmarts in terms of political agendas -- I get a kick when people suggest I should support the local business because he is still an asshole, but he is, well, local!

If that is the case -- IMHO, Walmart might as well move in. It will be easier to get people across the nation to make a statement, though I am not saying it would be possible now.

These 2 sites: http://www.choosetheblue.com and http://www.buyblue.org/ (I believe they are related) have some ideas. Does anyone have any perspective on these organzation and the integrity of their work? Do we have something here that we could start with?
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 5:42 am | #

Aite. You gotta remember G - I just woke up not too awful long ago. It takes a damm good while for the fog of all the pharms to wear off too.

I like to be clear headed before I toke. Why ruin it, know what I mean.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 5:43 am | #

This is pure anarchy. We must maintain strict topical discipline on threads. This is not an "open thread", you free and fancy druggies.

Don't make me email Atrios and get him to investigate you.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:44 am | #

WKD sez:

Its just before midnight saturday down here so at least I have an excuse.

So you're yesterday.

Read Eco's The Island of the Day Before.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 5:44 am | #

Jeez, I hope he doesn't start wanting some of my "sweet cock", too.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:46 am | #

Barndog sez:

It's time to wake and bake. Who's in?

Pass it through the modem. Thanks.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 5:47 am | #

Oh nooooo, Mr. Bill. Are you speaking the truth or what?

Some may say "what", but I disagree! We must focus all our efforts into preaching the gospel of sacrifice - then we'll make some real headway with the masses and take back our country!

I love you, brother.
America's Memory

Oh man -- you are going to get me eaten alive here. Wish you would choose your battles more carefully -- I know I have to watch that too. Please leave me out of this one for now.

I don't want to judge you or anyone else here -- just hope those that agree on the problems discussed here will eventually talk about action. I know I have to work on "playing nice" with some of the "personalities" here. You decide what you should do -- ok
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 5:47 am | #

spork--

Heh. Funny reference.

I gotcha Punto fijo right here, buddy!
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:47 am | #

Yeah, I'm all fancy and shit - sittin here in my sweats. You might be right tho.. the glass I'm tokin from is straight outta Haight-Ashbury in San Fran. Quite a nice piece for $12. Anywhere around the area, including Ann Arbor - a like piece sells for $60-75 if not more.

That included the padded carry bag also.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 5:50 am | #

What are you doing with those "teenagers in the basement"?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:51 am | #

spork -

The plug is too small, man.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 5:52 am | #

mr bill -

It's 5:48am ET. Don't play with the troll.

Thank you.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 5:52 am | #

I'm starting to feel like Marsha Mason in the "reading the reviews" scene of The Goodbye Girl....
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:53 am | #

*So you're yesterday.

Read Eco's The Island of the Day Before.*

Read it. I like Eco, so I'm not sure if he would put me to sleep.

Gin isn't doing the trick either. Maybe I should have gone out this evening. Sex might have helped.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 5:53 am | #

SATURDAY midnight? where the hell are you? wait...i'm counting on my fingers--India? China?

hail Backslider, well met in passing.

i seem to have added Hecate's insomnia to my sinus travails...

i know there was a bed around here someplace, now where did it get to?

rorschach, i'm handing them the keys now. could you put You Know Who into its kennel for the night/day? no one needs that kind of thing before they get their morning coffee.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:54 am | #

incog, you're right to be cynical- here in the south I think people are too far gone. Fuck, lot's of them believe jeebus will be here momentarily and the earth is 6,000 years old.

My sister when to college outside of dallas from a northern "blue" state. She never came back. In the beginning, she told us how strange people were and would comment on how people still harbored resentments from the civil war.

She used to say, "gee guys, that was an awful long time ago."

Now she is a full-blown freeper and fundie -- married to one with 3 children. They built a house on what is essentially a toxic waste dump. They cannot drink or cook with their water -- though they bath in it. They live next door to a military contractor that builds aircraft -- they fly overhead and shake the house at all hours. These planes burn very toxic fuel.

They think that the mercury fillings in their teeth are why they have blood poisoning and they hate the government and think its the source of all evil -- except for the crony-captilists that own the military industrial complex and chimpy's other band of theives. I got a pointed Email the other day about a lost Xmas package -- like the US Postal service is this awful thing that just doesn't deliver the mail.

I am not making this up -- she asks me when I want to come and visit. I am running out of excuses. HELP!!!!!
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 5:54 am | #

Night AM.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 5:54 am | #

Barndog -

What I say? I'm not not getting the references. Same for rorschach.

I feel left out!

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 5:55 am | #

It's 5:48am ET. Don't play with the troll.

Thank you.

Indeed. I mean, AM is weirdly interesting as a case study--I mean, what level of self-loathing would lead a person to sit there typing out stupid, rude, offensive words all night long?

But, to engage with it is a mistake.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:55 am | #

Funny filkertom... you don't look anything like Marsha Mason -

/rimshot ON
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 5:55 am | #

If someone called me the liberal instapundit my first response would be to call a lawyer but after cooler consideration I'd be angry enough to go looking for them myself.

"Ha! I lied!"

So,

shock me.
EPT | 01.15.05 - 5:56 am | #

could you put You Know Who into its kennel for the night/day?

Tee hee! You're such a cool kid!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:57 am | #

mr. bill -- man, if they believe all that, you can just give 'em Paris Hilton's address and say she's your housekeeper. I bet that, with the ensuing hilarity, you won't have to worry about 'em for three to five years.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:58 am | #

"Don't play with the troll"

Can we toy with him?
EPT | 01.15.05 - 5:58 am | #

*SATURDAY midnight? where the hell are you? wait...i'm counting on my fingers--India? China?*

Misunderstanding I think. It's saturday, @ 11:50pm. So midnight will be sunday.

It's summer in the southern hemisphere, and I hate it.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 5:58 am | #

"Don't play with the troll"

Can we toy with him?
EPT | 01.15.05 - 5:58 am | #

They think that the mercury fillings in their teeth are why they have blood poisoning and they hate the government and think its the source of all evil -- except for the crony-captilists that own the military industrial complex and chimpy's other band of theives. I got a pointed Email the other day about a lost Xmas package -- like the US Postal service is this awful thing that just doesn't deliver the mail.

We're hearing more and more of these stories. I wonder what it means....
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 5:58 am | #

spork--

I believe Barndog's plug-too-small comment referred back to your request for him to pass the weed your way via Internet.

My Punto fijo reference was to Island of the Day Before...

If I've understood you, perhaps that clarifies things for the moment?
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:58 am | #

barndog -- yeah, but when I was younger I did look a fair amount like Richard Dreyfuss. Now I look like Peter Jackson....
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 5:59 am | #

rorschach sez:

AM is weirdly interesting as a case study

No, it's not.

Ignore, my friend, ignore.

(screams into the wind)

Just tryin'.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:01 am | #

Librarian -- guess if you feel qualified to make those statements, that is your choicer. Thanks for sharing. I am also a librarian, but I choose not to put it in my handle and I try to remember that just because I am information and technology literate, doesn't mean I have all of the anwers. Peace.
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 6:01 am | #

oh -- I do have my opinions though and I post them here. I respect your right to do so too. I don't need the lecture about respect, however. Thanks again
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 6:02 am | #

ok. i'm back. kinda drunk though. quick! who was the greatest female vocalist of the 1980s?
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:03 am | #

I read island of the day before when I was, um, 17, 18 maybe? Not sure I finished it actually, because I can remember fuck all. I should really revisit it, but I haven't been reading much and I have this stupid logic paper thingy and a million other stupid thingys to get done in the next month.

Has Eco ever written a book less than 1000 pages? I'm not exaggerating by much.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:03 am | #

hoo boy, String apparently just took a big ol' dump from the aroma I'm getting now. I hope he feels better.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 6:04 am | #

Yer gunna have to wait until my anniversary for that, spork.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 6:05 am | #

Olaf -- my choice would be the same one for today: Annie Lennox.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:06 am | #

island of the day before is not my favorite eco. my favorite is foucault's pendulum.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:06 am | #

Olaf -- my choice would be the same one for today: Annie Lennox.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:06 am | #

island of the day before is not my favorite eco. my favorite is foucault's pendulum.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:06 am | #

How do you define greatest, Olaf?

Mariah Carrey was hot, Whitney Houston was loud and Cindy Lauper was ever so slightly strange. And MAdonna was around somewhere. That's all I can remember.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:06 am | #

Actually, no study has ever shown LSD to have any negative impact on cognitive skills whatsoever...

I was not trying to say there was -- it was suppose to be a joke. I should have used an emoticon. ANY NEGATIVE IMPACT... WHATSOEVER is probably overstating the case, depending on how you define NEGATIVE. I did not mean that as an insult -- I should have been more careful to not sound snarky.
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 6:06 am | #

good guess, filkertom. i would disagree though. guess again!!!
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:07 am | #

mr bill--choosetheblue, buyblue, both look clean to me. AFL-CIO also has some links, as does Working Assets Shop for Change. see also the CounterInnaugural, NotOnMyDime and TurnYourBackOnBush sites, for more fun activities.

and DO stay out of the Wal-Marts.

"stuff" does happen here, just not all the time--particularly not in the wee wee hours. troll-infestations don't help with that, either, of course.

but only Atrios speaks for Atrios. this makes sense to me...

and if it ever becomes necessary to eat you, we shall endeavor not to do so while you are still breathing (that's meant in a silly, light-hearted way, don't be alarmed.)

so, between noon and midnight, does AM turn into PM?

(i got one more at best, and then i am OUT.)

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:07 am | #

Debbie Harry! Not really, but she's hot in Videodrome...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:08 am | #

wkd wins by default, since he at least mentioned the greatest female vocalist of the 80's: cyndi lauper.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:09 am | #

ANY NEGATIVE IMPACT... WHATSOEVER is probably overstating the case, depending on how you define NEGATIVE.

No, it's not.

And don't worry. I wasn't insulted.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:09 am | #

I prefer Name of the Rose, although Foucaults Pendulum is also good.

And I forgot all about Annie Lennox. I love Annie Lennox, and she was much hotter than MAriah Carrey.

Still is :P
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:10 am | #

Kerry didn't let us down. The American people let us down, let the whole world down. Kerry wasn't the perfect candidate, but his superiority to Bush would have been obvious in a halfway-rational society.

And part of the reason I love Tena is because she has been wont to point out that the most liberal senator in the Senate ran for president and lost by only one state. I didn't want Kerry to get the nomination because I thought he was too liberal and thus had no chance. Instead he inspired a lot of people who had never been involved in politics before and almost won it. While "almost" doesn't cut it, I remain optimistic. We have an excellent chance of taking back at least one house of congress in 2006.

I have written to the DNC in response to their request for donations and told them I was waiting to see who they choose as the leader. If it is another anti-choice repug lite like the dems have chosen for the House, they will not see one dime from me. Dean can do a lot of good as DNC chairman. Let's hope they listen.
QuiltLady in NY | 01.15.05 - 6:10 am | #

debbie harry is up there. i really like that song about the man from mars. cyndi lauper really holds up though. she was great.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:10 am | #

who was the greatest female vocalist of the 1980s?

Betty Carter
EPT | 01.15.05 - 6:11 am | #

Yay! I'm a winner!
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:11 am | #

It's 5:48am ET. Don't play with the troll.

Thank you.

spork_incident
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 6:11 am | #

OK,

I'm neither drunk or stoned but this thread is damn surreal.

Has Eco ever written a book less than 1000 pages? I'm not exaggerating by much.

Both The Island of the Day Before and Baudolino clock in at less than 1,000 pages. But I get your point.

ALL HAIL ECO!

Olaf sez:

quick! who was the greatest female vocalist of the 1980s?

Pat Benatar?

(I keed.)

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:11 am | #

I feel validated as a person.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:12 am | #

I prefer Name of the Rose, although Foucaults Pendulum is also good.

And I forgot all about Annie Lennox. I love Annie Lennox, and she was much hotter than MAriah Carrey.

Yes, Annie Lennox was great in The Name of the Rose, but Mariah Carey never should have gotten together with Michel Foucault...

What were we talking about again?
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:13 am | #

I have a great fondness for Debbie Harry (and she was hot as hell in Videodrome, oh my yes). And I have no problem with Cyndi Lauper. I just think Lennox had, and has, more vocal power and versatility.

And, yeah, way hotter than Mariah Carey. A Barbie body does not make someone sexy.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:14 am | #

That True Colours song haunts me still.

Hmmmm, gin....
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:14 am | #

if you like eco you really should read borges. borges came up with ideas for eco novels and passed them off as short stories.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:14 am | #

Cyndi Lauper shall be remembered forever for her ability to expound upon who, exactly, is bopping.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:15 am | #

80's? Well, Since I first seen her then when she was only 17 (a week from 1, and is the same as it is now. She blew me away then, and blows me away now. That was in 1988.

Alison Krause.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 6:16 am | #

mr bill--choosetheblue, buyblue, both look clean to me. AFL-CIO also has some links, as does Working Assets Shop for Change. see also the CounterInnaugural, NotOnMyDime and TurnYourBackOnBush sites, for more fun activities.

Nice reply -- I have gotten flamed for this question here in the past. I appreciate s more thoughtful reply.
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 6:16 am | #

*Yes, Annie Lennox was great in The Name of the Rose, but Mariah Carey never should have gotten together with Michel Foucault...

What were we talking about again?*

The spiders, rorschach, and how they get at your eyes.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:16 am | #

What were we talking about again?

We're supposed to be talking about how horrible Chris Sullenpooper is and why he was involved in stealing the election.

But trolls like you keep straying from the topic, disrupting those of us here who are doing are best to have an ADULT CONVERSATION. But you wouldn't know what that is, you sick sick troll.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 6:16 am | #

I've never read Eco. I thought the movie of The Name of the Rose was okay, but nothing special. Poor F. Murray Abraham -- hot off of Amadeus and shoved into the same kind of role.

But I do remember that Mariah Carey was a more convincing monk than Annie Lennox.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:16 am | #

WTF is up with that smiley face shit?

She was almost 18.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 6:18 am | #

Olof sez:

Yes, Annie Lennox was great in The Name of the Rose, but Mariah Carey never should have gotten together with Michel Foucault...

What were we talking about again?

Yeah, Foucoult's Penduum, must've read it ten times.

I'm all historical-minded. I keep coming across stuff that makes me think "oh, yeah, Eco covered that."

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:18 am | #

WKD -- yeah, that and Time After Time. Two of the only songs I can think of that I like every cover I've heard. Some things are just so good you can't screw 'em up.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:18 am | #

To tell the truth, I think Mariah Carrey is hotter now than she was in the 80's.

Rawr.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:18 am | #

spork, i went to high school with around 750 teenage girls who all tried to look like pat benetar. it was a very stressful time in my life.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:18 am | #

The spiders, rorschach, and how they get at your eyes.

Yer freakin' me out man... Whoa. Have ever really looked at your hands?

I don't know. Annie Lennox in a tonsure? Very hot.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:19 am | #

Dean can do a lot of good as DNC chairman. Let's hope they listen.
QuiltLady in NY

If you listen to the hacks on TV as well as the trolls you stumble across they all seem to be giving us the good advice to not choose the strongest candidate for chairman with the most fight in him (and a proven fundraiser too). Now why would you think they're giving us that advice?

While it shouldn't be determinative in itself we should listen to the advice of our enemies, if only to get an idea of what not to do.

I notice our trolls seem to have dropped their Naderite pretenses, guess he's served his purpose. Some of them seem to be giving us advice posing as Democrats. This is a tactic anyone who has spent too much time listening to call-ins will be familiar with. Amazing how many people call in who voted for the last Democrat who ran but who will not vote for another one.
Ja.
EPT | 01.15.05 - 6:19 am | #

Annie Lennox haunts me.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 6:19 am | #

damn--i meant NotOneDamnDime, sorry about that, mr. bill.

(and i think we may be back around to the name-stealing game...it makes me dizzy, you know.)

*

130th Chorus

And the Victor is Not Pride
And the Victor is Not.
Thus spake Tathagata.

But I get tired
Of waiting in pain
In a situation
Where I ain't sure.

Where I am not sure
Where I am Wolfe
Sorrow
Whitman Free
Melville Dark
Mark Twain Mark
Twain
where I am
wild
Where I am Mild.

from "Mexico City Blues," Jack Kerouac

(okay, not that great, but it was the first one i flipped to.)

enjoy the day. i have to go look for that bed i lost...

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:19 am | #

barndog, allison krauss is one of the most kickass fiddlers in recent history. she is not the greatest female vocalist of the 80s though. that honor belongs to cyndi lauper.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:21 am | #

spork--Yeah, Eco's brilliant at teaching history while telling a cool story.

You should check out (if you haven't yet) Ross King's Ex-Libris. A bit lighter-weight than Eco, but in the same genre.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:21 am | #

filkertom, yeah, fuck yeah. I can't remember any of her other work, except for Girls Wanna blah blah, but those two are still in my head.

Roy Orbson and K.D. Lang, Crying. Most. Angstful. Song. Ever.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:22 am | #

I notice our trolls seem to have dropped their Naderite pretenses, guess he's served his purpose. Some of them seem to be giving us advice posing as Democrats. This is a tactic anyone who has spent too much time listening to call-ins will be familiar with. Amazing how many people call in who voted for the last Democrat who ran but who will not vote for another one.
Ja.

Definitely. Thersites has a great post on such trolls over at his place.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:23 am | #

I've read all of Eco's books in the original Pig Latin, which as you all know is much harder to do than listening to them as audiobook versions of cartoon versions.

I read Foucault and all the major intellectuals, like all of you.

Goddamn, we're all so frickin smart and well-read. Group hug!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 6:23 am | #

filkertom sez:

I've never read Eco. I thought the movie of The Name of the Rose was okay, but nothing special. Poor F. Murray Abraham -- hot off of Amadeus and shoved into the same kind of role.

You're a heathen.

May Ba'al treat you well.

(Give you cheerleader pyramides before your flesh burns, etc,)

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:24 am | #

damn--i meant NotOneDamnDime, sorry about that, mr. bill.

Thanks for the correction -- I will check these out at a more sane hour of the day. I hope that we can continue a dialog about these sites, these issues, and appropraite action. This does seem to rub some people the wrong way and it does not appear, IMHO, to be a "respect" thing. Thanks
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 6:24 am | #

*I don't know. Annie Lennox in a tonsure? Very hot.*

Annie Lennox in nothing at all?

For some reason, Ruby Wax turns me on. I have interesting taste in women.

*Annie Lennox haunts me.*

I'll give you haunting, Incog. BOOO!
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:25 am | #

cyndi lauper is the greatest female vocalist of the 1980s. no one else ven comes close.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:25 am | #

EPT -- I'm getting awfully tired of the other team telling us how we should play. Especially because they get all moralistic about it. Fuck 'em.

And, funny, innit, how Nader has completely vanished after the election? I expect him to wheeze out of his cryochamber in 2007, lambasting all of us how we're all stupid and so we should vote for him, which I suppose is an accurate characterization of his base....
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:26 am | #

I've never read Eco. I thought the movie of The Name of the Rose was okay, but nothing special. Poor F. Murray Abraham -- hot off of Amadeus and shoved into the same kind of role.

You're a heathen.

May Ba'al treat you well.

(Give you cheerleader pyramides before your flesh burns, etc,)

Okay, that leaves me with a bizarre image of Ron Perlman at Abu Ghraib, or something...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:26 am | #

Definitely. Thersites has a great post on such trolls over at his place.

Are you finished felching me yet? It doesn't feel devoid of semen in there yet.

I love you because you UNDERSTAND me and my evil, faker ways. I can't help being a Republican shill.

Help me. Guide me. Felch me.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 6:27 am | #

i am a big fan of annie lennox myself, however, she can't hold a candle to cyndi lauper, the greatest female vocalist of the 1980s.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:28 am | #

*Goddamn, we're all so frickin smart and well-read. Group hug!*

Come on AM, you're not stupid, you must read too.

The important question is though, is Beyonce hotter than Kelis?
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:29 am | #

So, Olaf, I'm clear on everything except one point: What is your opinion of Cyndi Lauper?
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:29 am | #

I think Olaf is right. I can't think of a single female vocalist of the 80's that had better pipes than Lauper.

Despite True Colors.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:30 am | #

I expect him to wheeze out of his cryochamber in 2007, filkertom

A Weapon of Myth Disruption.
EPT | 01.15.05 - 6:31 am | #

spork -- so I'm a heathen. I go through periods of wanting to read that kind of book, and other periods of avoiding 'em completely. Also, being an SF/fantasy/horror fan, I've gone through a few too many sprawling epics. Used to be that James Michener and James Clavell were the only guys who wrote phone-book-sized things. But Lumley, George R. R. Martin, Stephen Donaldson, Robert Jordan, and the collected blather of Piers Anthony and David Eddings made me a short-story fan again.

The only novelists I've been reading lately are Lois McMaster Bujold and Sharon Shinn.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:31 am | #

*Okay, that leaves me with a bizarre image of Ron Perlman at Abu Ghraib, or something...*

I'll give you multi-lingual hunchback!
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:32 am | #

WKD -

Cut it out.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:32 am | #

really, have you ever just broken out 0old music for nostalgic reasons and said--"HOLY SHIT! THIS KICKS ASS!" cyndi lauper holds up, man.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:32 am | #

she can't hold a candle to cyndi lauper, the greatest female vocalist of the 1980s.
Olaf glad and big

Yeah, but isn't she some sort of tragic figure for some reason? I never understood that.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 6:32 am | #

my vote for greatest female vocalist of the 80s goes to Kate Bush.
renato | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:32 am | #

Jeez, now I've got in my head an imagined duet of Lauper and Lennox on True Colors, and it's making me weep....
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:33 am | #

I done told you people. Both Aretha Franklin and Tina Turner were active in the '80s, and selling records. So the question should most rightly be, "Who's the greatest female vocalist of the '80s that isn't Aretha Franklin or Tina Turner?"

And I still say Rosanne Cash, but that's cause I didn't listen to much outside of country music in the '80s.
Backslider | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:33 am | #

*Despite True Colors.*

You will be destroyed!
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:33 am | #

Goddamn, we're all so frickin smart and well-read. Group hug!
America's Memory

What cute jealousy. No matter what they say Freep is dying with envy. You've seen what passes as comment in freeper land.
EPT | 01.15.05 - 6:34 am | #

i have no idea, incognito. i'll tell you one thing though. "girls just wanna have fun" will be a standard in 15 years or so. cyndi lauper was a jazz singer. who knew?
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:35 am | #

Yeah, but isn't she some sort of tragic figure for some reason? I never understood that.

I think it had to do with her tragic involvement with the world of professional wrestling...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:35 am | #

*Cut it out.*

Er, elaborate?
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:35 am | #

true colors already is a standard.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:35 am | #

Not arguing, Olaf. I don't think she's the best, but I'd happily put her in the top five.

Renato -- holy cow, how could I forget? I've got one of her video collections. Such incredible songs, too. Her work with Peter Gabriel was a perfect intersection of two bizarre, wonderful talents.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:35 am | #

rorschach sez:

< so I'm a heathen.

Confession: 80's Madonna is cool.

I'm such a dweeb.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:35 am | #

America's Memory got his big start posing as a Naderite. Just a bit of Eschaton historical trivia.
EPT | 01.15.05 - 6:36 am | #

time after time bin a standard
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:36 am | #

*I think it had to do with her tragic involvement with the world of professional wrestling...*

I remember than video. Did people think that was funny in the 80's?

Did people think that was good hair in the 80's?
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:37 am | #

Jeez, now I've got in my head an imagined duet of Lauper and Lennox on True Colors, and it's making me weep....
filkertom

I feel the beauty of your pain...
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 6:37 am | #

renato sez:

my vote for greatest female vocalist of the 80s goes to Kate Bush.

Gad. I'm such an idiot.

You nailed it.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:38 am | #

Get out of here, Spork. You're not welcome here.

Shoo!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 6:38 am | #

Was it Kate Bush that did the Duet with Gabriel on Don't Give Up?

Those lips are forever burnt into my mind.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:39 am | #

filkertom, if you havent listened to her in a while, give her a listen. she holds up really well. amazingly well in fact. "girls just wanna have fun" is just fantastic. time after time is sublime. listen to an album. she really could sing.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:39 am | #

Backslider -- now, now. Both of those magnificent women's greatest triumphs were in the 60's. Let them be accorded their rightful status as goddesses, and let some mere mortals play through (although I could see making Lennox and Kate Bush goddesses as well, and certainly Lauper as at least a muse).
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:40 am | #

Again, Olaf, not arguing. But it has been awhile since I cued up those albums, so that gives me something to do today.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:42 am | #

What cute jealousy. No matter what they say Freep is dying with envy. You've seen what passes as comment in freeper land.

I know. I am SO jealous.

Now let's talk about whether Cyndi Lauper had cooler hair than Annie Lennox. I mean, I'm not qualified for such high-level discourse (and, whoa, Umberto Eco - are you kidding me? I can barely read a box of cornflakes), but if you would find it in your heart to include me in your circle of erudite literary critics (see how I can use a thesaurus, Mommy?), I will felch you twice.

And I'll do a much better job than that piker, Ror.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 6:42 am | #

oh THANKS rorschach, now i'm going to have nightmares--

"Ron Perlman at Abu Ghraib"

and mr. bill, no harm no foul. the respect thing was meant as a general statement, not directed at you or anyone personally. and i'm actually just such a dork that i started out using "Librarian" as my name, and then it was too late to change--what can i say? i'm stuck with it now. at least i didn't use my own whole real name...

and i am really REALLY going now. really.

no lie.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:42 am | #

*filkertom, if you havent listened to her in a while, give her a listen. she holds up really well. amazingly well in fact. "girls just wanna have fun" is just fantastic. time after time is sublime. listen to an album. she really could sing.*

She could do remarkable things with her voice. If she really was a jazz singer, I could believe it.

And Kelis is hotter than Beyonce. Less plastic and much dirtier. Image wise anyway.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:43 am | #

'Night, L. Or 'Morning. Whatever. Have a great weekend.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:43 am | #

backslider, listen to cyndi lauper. she kicks ass.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:44 am | #

filkertom,
People are all the time asking me "What is the best decade in rock & roll?", generally expecting me to say the '50s - considering my love of R&B and Elvis - the '60s - cause I love the Stones - or the '70s - because, apprently, the lenghth of my hair. It always blows my mind when I tell them "The best time for music is now." Why? We have access to not only what's going on today, but all the stuff from the past. You gotta have both, since you can't seperate something from what came before it.

Therefore, Aretha Franklin is still the greatest female vocalist of all time. Maybe the greatest of either gender, but I'm on a Sam Cooke kick these days and he beats her out...but just barely.
Backslider | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:47 am | #

am, i guess you weren't paying attention, but nobody was discussing the hairdos of annie lennox or cyndi lauper. get some sleep and come back when you're a little fresher. that's a good boy.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:47 am | #

Well, this has been most excellent fun. If you'll all excuse me, today is a Big Errand Day, with auto repair and laundry and all sorts of fun. I probably won't be here too much for a few days, so take care.

P.S.: Blatant blogwhoring -- I went off on Bobo today, the smarmy creep. Check out the homepage.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:47 am | #

People are all the time asking me "What is the best decade in rock & roll?", generally expecting me to say the '50s - considering my love of R&B and Elvis - the '60s - cause I love the Stones - or the '70s - because, apprently, the lenghth of my hair

That's easy. The 1890s, hands down!

Seriously, though, yes, Aretha is the one true goddess...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:48 am | #

Well Olaf - I had a really hard time in the 80's musically. Thats when I found my way back to bluegrass, folk, cajun & swing fiddle stuff.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 6:49 am | #

olaf,
Cyndi Lauper does indeed kick ass. I do not dispute that, believe you me. It's a shame that, by no fault of her own, she's forevermore gonna be dated because of her look. I've heard some of the stuff she did as a "comeback" for the late '90s and it was pretty damn good, maybe even better than the '80s stuff.
Backslider | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:49 am | #

Annie Lennox has always been hot with the short hairdo. Why change a good thing?
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:49 am | #

See you, filker. Good luck at hassle-free errands!
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:49 am | #

Annie Lennox and a Whiter Shade Of Pale is too much. At least for me.

I can't take it.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 6:49 am | #

Backslider -- can't argue with that, although I'd put Aretha over Cooke. Just me. I am head over heels for her version of "Think" from The Blues Brothers. She shot that thing up five octaves like nothin'.

And now, I really must away. Farewell, excellent folks! Catch you Monday or Tuesday.
filkertom | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:49 am | #

Bye filkertom.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:50 am | #

"aretha franklin is the greatest female vocalist of all time"-backslider

rock and roll isn't just rock and roll, dude. billie holliday could hang with aretha better than aretha could hang with her.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:51 am | #

Thanks for that tip, Olaf, but did I say you could stop licking my head cheese?

No, I didn't think so.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 6:51 am | #

Excellent post Filkertom, thank you.
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 6:51 am | #

And dig this...in amongst the mass of old video tapes of movies recorded when we first got a satellite dish, we found a copy - and I am not making this up - Vibes, Cyndi Lauper's movie. Haven't watched it to see check the quality just yet, but we'll get to it.
Backslider | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 6:52 am | #

I think the greatest female vocalist of all time with be the first one to do a music video completely naked.

But then I really do need to get out more.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:52 am | #

barndog, i am trying to learn how to play the fiddle myself. thanks in large part to the work of allison krauss.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 6:53 am | #

Bacslider sez:

Cyndi Lauper does indeed kick ass. I do not dispute that, believe you me. It's a shame that, by no fault of her own, she's forevermore gonna be dated because of her look. I've heard some of the stuff she did as a "comeback" for the late '90s and it was pretty damn good, maybe even better than the '80s stuff.

The pipes will out, in the end.

You're right, she was sterotyped.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 6:54 am | #

Olaf glad & big: any idea who was the best female vocalist of the 90's?
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 6:56 am | #

No one here is obese. It's true!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 6:57 am | #

Best female vocalist of the 90s.....fuck, now that's a hard one. I can't even think of one.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 6:58 am | #

Cool, Olaf. I say right on. I play guitar, mandolin & banjo. I hope sometime in the near future to find me a 5 string fiddle (I gotta convert it to left-handed) and start playing.

Banjo was kind of giving me a hassle since my shoulder locked up last summer. Too many injuries to the rotator cuff. I'm back to where the guitar is no problem now, and about to pick it back up again. A really fun and challenging instrument to say the least.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 6:58 am | #

That's not shorter...
Motoko Kusanagi | 01.15.05 - 6:59 am | #

Well Olaf - I had a really hard time in the 80's musically. Thats when I found my way back to bluegrass, folk, cajun & swing fiddle stuff.
Barndog

What I really know, musically, are hymns from hymnals. Those old emotional songs. My dad was a deacon in our old church and we were there anytime the doors were open. I was introduced to classical music, jazz (Duke Ellington) ragtime and baroque music through piano musical lessons but those old hymns stay with me I used to play. Softly and Tenderly, Jesus is calling....

I know they're not appreciated, but those old emotional hymns led to what we have now.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 6:59 am | #

"whether Cyndi Lauper had cooler hair than Annie Lennox"

On a Freep site they'd be aruging about Anne Coulter and Amity Slaes. AND they'd be talking about what passes as their ideas while drooling onto their crisco over what passes as their looks.
EPT | 01.15.05 - 6:59 am | #

pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 6:59 am | #

WKD--c'mon there were a lot of good ones .....
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:00 am | #

i don't understand banjos, barndog. that short string just doesn't make any sense to me. i play guitar mostly. and poorly. but i play.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:01 am | #

Check this the fuck out:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4174519.stm

Boggle boggle boggle.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:01 am | #

Did rock-a-billy and negro soul/jazz lead to rock-n-roll?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 7:01 am | #

The '90s? Bjork. Same now, frankly.
Backslider | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:02 am | #

I know they're not appreciated, but those old emotional hymns led to what we have now.

Indeed. Whenever I go to Jazzfest in N.O., I always wind up spending far more time in the Gospel tent than I expect. They really know how to belt it out...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:02 am | #

incog, i love those hymns too, even though i'm an atheist.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:03 am | #

One powerful female vocalist who's not been mentioned yet: Siouxsie.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:05 am | #

i grew up with em. blessed assurance, just as i am. it sticks with you and it means something. i'm not sure what.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:05 am | #

Bjork yes...

Tori Amos? Sarah McLachlin? Paula Cole? Johnette Napoliteano? Shirley Manson?
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:05 am | #

rorschach, these fundamentalist mega-churches don't even sing the true hymns I grew up on. It's like some sort of plastic/cardboard meaningless music, now.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 7:05 am | #

all this talk of the 80s reminds me of my favorite song (lately):

Debbie just hit the wall
She never had it all
One Prozac a day
Husbands a CPA
Her dreams went out the door
When she turned twenty four
Only been with one man
What happen to her plan?

She was gonna be an actress
She was gonna be a star
She was gonna shake her ass
On the hood of Whitesnake's car
Her yellow SUV, is now the enemy
Looks at her average life
And nothing, has been, alright

Since Bruce Springstein, Madonna
Way before Nirvana
There was U2, and Blondie
And music still on MTV
Her two kids, in high school
They tell her that she's uncool
But she still preoccupied
With 19, 19, 1985

Woo-hoo-hoo

1985

Woo-hoo-hoo

She's seen all the classics
She knows every line
Breakfast Club, Pretty in Pink
Even Saint Elmo's Fire
She rocked out to wham
Not a big Limp Biskit fan
Thought she'd get a hand
On a member of Duran Duran

Where's the mini-skirt made of snake skin
And who's the other guy singing in Van Halen
When did reality, become T.V.
What ever happen to sitcoms, game shows

On the radio was

Springstein, Madonna
Way before Nirvana
There was U2, and Blondie
And music still on MTV
Her two kids, in high school
They tell her that she's uncool
But she's still preoccupied
With 19, 19, 1985

Woo-hoo-hoo

She hates time, make it stop
When did Motley Crue become classic rock?
And when did Ozzy become an actor?
Please make this stop!
Stop!
Stop!

And bring back

Springstein, Madonna
Way before Nirvana
There was U2, and Blondie
And music still on MTV
Her two kids, in high school
They tell her that she's uncool
But she's still preoccupied
With 1985

Bruce Springstein, Madonna
Way before Nirvana
There was U2, and Blondie
And music still on MTV
Her two kids, in high school
They tell her that she's uncool
But she's still preoccupied
With 19, 19, 1985

renato | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:05 am | #

rorschach, these fundamentalist mega-churches don't even sing the true hymns I grew up on. It's like some sort of plastic/cardboard meaningless music, now.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 7:05 am | #

Ô¿Ô - it's been said, but I really can't substantiate it - that all music comes from the hymnals.

To me at least, some of the most emotionally moving music I've ever heard is acapella bluegrass gospels.

A fine, fine band for that is Blue Highway. We've seen them a couple of times. Another is the Nashville Bluegrass Band.

But - I'm sayin it here. The most haunting high tenor voice in bluegrass - Del McCoury.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 7:06 am | #

*WKD--c'mon there were a lot of good ones*

It's crazy, but I can;t think of any that really stick out. Beyonce Knolwes has real talent, but she didn't really take off until the end of the decade I think.

Lauren Hill? When did the Fugees start up?

Other than that, Madonna, just because she was there. Nobody else had a career that both lasted and that I can think off.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:06 am | #

rorschach, these fundamentalist mega-churches don't even sing the true hymns I grew up on. It's like some sort of plastic/cardboard meaningless music, now.

Yeah, it's amazing how the fundies can manage to take the "spirit" out of spiritual songs...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:07 am | #

Bjork!!!! yes, I 2nd that...
renato | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:08 am | #

siouxie holds up better than i expected, rorschach. no cyndi lauper though.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:08 am | #

My general rule is Olaf: doesn't matter - as long as you play.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 7:08 am | #

Siouxie and the Banshees?
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:09 am | #

*Johnette Napoliteano?*

Yeah, FUCK yeah. I forgot all about Concrete Blonde. Someday gets me every time. Je. Sus. That woman's voice.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:10 am | #

Yeah, it's amazing how the fundies can manage to take the "spirit" out of spiritual songs...
rorschach

I know. It's like they take every fucking thing away.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 7:10 am | #

Yeah, FUCK yeah. I forgot all about Concrete Blonde. Someday gets me every time. Je. Sus. That woman's voice.

Saw them in concert once. OH MY GOD! Moved to tears.
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:12 am | #

Seriously, check out that link I posted above. The US was going to beat it's opponents by turning their troops gay. I shit you not.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:12 am | #

seriously, i got drunk with some old friends tonight, and the plan was to laugh at the music we used to listen to way back when. a lot of it was crap, too. but cyndi lauper holds up really well. i was surprised. i expected roxy music to hold up. it sounds kind of lame compared to cyndi. that's just tonight though.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:12 am | #

rorschach sez:

One powerful female vocalist who's not been mentioned yet: Siouxsie.

Damn. I've already pulled out the Kate Bush. Now I have to find Siouxsie?

I hate this thread.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 7:13 am | #

rorschach, these fundamentalist mega-churches don't even sing the true hymns I grew up on. It's like some sort of plastic/cardboard meaningless music, now. Ô¿Ô

Church music, movie music, and pop music have all gone downhill together. That fundamentalist torch-song shit is the worst though. It was in the 70s that people started asking me to play "We've Only Just Begun" at their weddings, it's been downhill ever since. Don't do it anymore.

Sometimes it sounds like some tart is coming on to Jesus, everything gets turned into a commercial love song.
EPT | 01.15.05 - 7:13 am | #

WKD--i checked it out. What will they think of next?
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:15 am | #

But - I'm sayin it here. The most haunting high tenor voice in bluegrass - Del McCoury.
Barndog

I love bluegrass because it's not always about Jeebus but about love and love lost and just the individual human experience. And it's haunting, too. It's from the our Gaelic Scotts/Irish.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 7:17 am | #

*Saw them in concert once. OH MY GOD! Moved to tears.*

I first heard someday when I was younger. Couldn't remember the band, and 10 years later my brother buys the greatest hits cd. I was like, Fuck! That song! Joey also. I then developed an enormous crush on Napoliteano, partly because she reminded me of this french chick I used to know.

I'm good like that.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:17 am | #

spork_incident--check out Tori Amos--not only gorgeous but what heart.

Incog--you would like her too. She grew up in the south and her daddy was a minsiter and she grew up singing in churches...
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:17 am | #

Sometimes it sounds like some tart is coming on to Jesus, everything gets turned into a commercial love song.

Reminds me of Eric Cartman's Christian rock band...

But the real gospel lives on. First time I wandered into the gospel tent at Jazzfest, there was a little African-American kid, maybe nine years old, decked out in a suit with a handkerchief to mop his brow, and he was talking up a storm, saying, "I don't know why you're here today, but I came to praise the Lord," and started belting out gospel so powerful it couldn't have come from lungs so small. Amazing stuff....
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:17 am | #

SPEAKING of those mega-sing garbage TV sings....

I had to get a blood test the other day (for my Rheumatoid) - I walk into the little clinic next to Kinko's. This crap is BLARING on the TV. Well... this Gramma was in there and she was not real happy about it either. We sat and started talking about baking bread really loudly. The women behind the counter were obvlivous to it.

We kind of went to get stuck together. The tech says to me - 'now what is this for?' I says, ' it's this dammmed rheumatoid... my freakin kidney sort of quit after taking Bextra for almost 3 years'. She and the other tech looked at me weirdly.

Gramma took the hint and says - ' hey, I aint got all damm day here, I've got bread raising at home - can we get going here for God's sake?'

The techs pretty much freaked out.

Best chuckle I've had in a few days.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 7:18 am | #

i was just surprised. i listened to roxy music, which i always thought of as high quality 80s music, and it sort of sucked. then i listened to cyndi lauper which i always thought was 80s schlock and it was fantastic. talking heads rocked though. hell of a band.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:18 am | #

Olaf--I still like the Roxy Music Brian Ferry thing...and Talking Heads? Now you're talking...
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:19 am | #

Oh, another musician of whom I'm fond: Michelle Shocked...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:19 am | #

My sister used to like Tori Amos. She did Cornflake Girl?

*WKD--i checked it out. What will they think of next?*

I dunno, something fucked up like a weapon that targets genetic markers or something fucked.

Hold on, wait....
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:21 am | #

her eyes on herizon sez:

spork_incident--check out Tori Amos

Already have.

Sometimes I don't like her. But when she's good she's good.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 7:21 am | #

Michelle kicks ass.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 7:22 am | #

WKD--was very upset when C.B. broke up, but she did a copilation CD with some other musicians called "Not Talkiing Just Head." (I kid you not.) It was pretty good.

her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:22 am | #

michelle shocked kicks ass. she is more of a songwriter though.

i love the ballad of patcheye and meg
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:22 am | #

and "the secret to a long life is knowin when it's time to go"
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:23 am | #

*Oh, another musician of whom I'm fond: Michelle Shocked...*

Rorschach, that was K.D. Lang wasn't it?
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:23 am | #

Cornflake Girl...yes rocking piano...she's awesome. Love her.
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:24 am | #

Michelle kicks ass.

Yeah, and when I saw her a few years back, just after she decided to make New Orleans her home base, she did the best rendition of "Grafitti Limbo," elaborating on the story at some length, and her rage at the murder of the artist was palpable...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:24 am | #

Oh, if you haven't, check out Carla Bozulich (ex-Geraldine Fibbers).

Country the way it was and should be.

Willie Nelson!

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 7:24 am | #

LOL!!! Kos isn't the target you numbnuts!! Dean is! Nobody is going to give a shit whether Kos took money or not in a weeks time, but this is a way of undermining Deans bid for the DNC chair.
Avestus | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:24 am | #

Oh, if you haven't, check out Carla Bozulich (ex-Geraldine Fibbers).

Country the way it was and should be.

Willie Nelson!

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 7:24 am | #

*WKD--was very upset when C.B. broke up, but she did a copilation CD with some other musicians called "Not Talkiing Just Head." (I kid you not.) It was pretty good.*

And then they got back together....
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:25 am | #

*Oh, another musician of whom I'm fond: Michelle Shocked...*

Rorschach, that was K.D. Lang wasn't it?

eh?
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:26 am | #

And then they got back together....

they did? When? how did I miss this?
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:27 am | #

rememberin back when i was a kid
we'd sneak down to the docks
watch the old men carvin wood
watch the sailors tyin knots. . .

but the thing that i remember best
was gray haired old patcheye
and the stories that he told about his younger days
as we watched the ships go by
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:28 am | #

God is a real-estate developer.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 7:28 am | #

Sorry, jsut being coy. They re-united a couple of years back and released an album. Can't recall the name, and am not sure if they are going still.

Napoliteano also replaced that dude in Talking Heads for a bit, which is probably the album you were referring to. I am not sure if they wrote anything new with her though.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:28 am | #

God is a real-estate developer.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 7:28 am | #

And the war in Iraq is going fabulous!
Avestus | 01.15.05 - 7:28 am | #

*I* never forgot about Concrete Blonde...
renato (preoccupied with 1985) | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:29 am | #

And "When I Grow Up I Wanna Be an Old Woman." And "Memories of East Texas."
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:29 am | #

he told us how he lost his eye
and how he lost his leg
but he never talked about the old tattoo
on his right arm that said meg
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:30 am | #

anyways
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 7:31 am | #

Napoliteano also replaced that dude in Talking Heads for a bit, which is probably the album you were referring to. I am not sure if they wrote anything new with her though.

Yeah it was a new album, they had a bunch of different singers...I have it actually, but can't put my hands on it at the moment...the cd collection is pretty vast.

I'll have to check out the latest C.B. thanks for that!

Did you find another link for the military?
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:31 am | #

*eh?*

I think K.D. Lang was Michelle Shocked, or involved somehow. I think I remember bits of an interview a few years back. She was talking about her 'Michelle Shocked days'.

Though I may have been drunk, and am not always the most reliable source of info.

Her Eye- Check out their website, you can google the URL if it's still active. Should have everything you want to know.

The cover art was pretty cool.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:32 am | #

Anyways, in answer to America's Memory: he's an idiot.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 7:34 am | #

No, KD Lang and Michelle Shocked are two distinct people. Not sure what you may be remembering...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:35 am | #

*Did you find another link for the military?*

I don't want to.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:35 am | #

thanks WKD. a pleasure
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:35 am | #

patch said he was captain of a pirate ship
sailin seas both blue and green
said every pirate gots to have a patch
so's he can look real mean

he'd make the bad guys walk the plank
pretty ladies he would save
then he'd take the treasure from the ship
and sink it to a watery grave
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:35 am | #

he told us stories bout his missin eye
told us stories bout his wooden leg
but he took the story to his grave
about the tattoo that said meg
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:38 am | #

rorschach- Just fucked around on google. I have no idea what I was remembering. So let's just smile politely and forget it ever happened.......
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:38 am | #

he told us stories bout his missin eye
told us stories bout his wooden leg
but he took the story to his grave
about the tattoo that said meg
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:38 am | #

rorschach- Just fucked around on google. I have no idea what I was remembering. So let's just smile politely and forget it ever happened.......
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:38 am | #

Check this out.

link
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:39 am | #

rorschach- Just fucked around on google. I have no idea what I was remembering. So let's just smile politely and forget it ever happened.......

No problem...

(By the way, did you know that Gabriel Byrne and David Byrne are the same person? )
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:39 am | #

Folks, I believe we should take a moment out to acknowledge America's Memory passing out in his own vomit....
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 7:39 am | #

anyway, that's my favorite michelle shocked song
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:39 am | #

Her eyes- you're welcome. Happy to help.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:39 am | #

Incog.
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:40 am | #

man. i'm listening to the texas campfire takes (used to be called the texas campfire tapes). this is great stuff.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:42 am | #

Yeah, it's good to see that Graner's facing some hard time. Serious psycho, that one.

My personal outrage-of-the-day has to do with Big Pharma poisoning people in India.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:42 am | #

*Check this out.*

Yeah, cracker motherfucker. Can't help feeling that they were pawns though. That England hillbilly barely has to thoughts to rub together.

*(By the way, did you know that Gabriel Byrne and David Byrne are the same person? )*

Umm, are you fucking with my mind?
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:44 am | #

graner is nobody
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:45 am | #

ror, and I wasn't angry enough over the whole SS debacle.
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:46 am | #

I'm kinda fond of Streetcorner Ambassador.

I keep a pile of pennies
In the pocket of my pants
I pay my toll to the sidewalk troll
My entrance fee to street romance
Oh Streetcorner ambassador
This city treats you well
supplies the finest newsprint sheets
The penthouse suite, Park Bench Hotel

Conferring with the delegates
Around imported port
Important issues of the day
Say "Unity will buy a quart"
Oh streetcorner ambassador
keeps highbrow company
They drink the finest of liqueur
At the A Train Embassy

And it's toss into the old tin cup
A shiny copper penny
Sing along that old refrain
"Can you spare a little change, man?
can you spare just a little change?"

The cop said "Move on or I'm gonna
take you to the shelter"
She beat a quick retreat that's how
He knew that he had helped her
Oh Streetcorner Ambassador
it seems so clear to me
The more you are ignored
It's called diplomatic immunity

Now if you find my money
On the street you let it be
consider it my joint account
with someone who really needs it
Oh streetcorner ambassador
Back from Vietnam or up from the South
Those patronizing liberals
Took the words out of your mouth

And it's toss into the old tin cup
A shiny copper penny
Sing along that old refrain
"Can you spare a little change, man?
can you spare just a little change -
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 7:47 am | #

it's been fun. thanks everybody.

gotta fly.
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 7:48 am | #

It's nearly 2am down here and I have a hill to climb tomorrow. Today. Whatever. It's fallen below 20 celsius, so I just might be able to get some sleep now. Night aaallllllllll.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 7:49 am | #

i feel kind of bad for graner. apparently none of those chinese yellow ribbon magnets had any effect on the situation he found himself in.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:52 am | #

in spite of all of that troop support, he found himself in a situation like that. . .
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:53 am | #

i feel kind of bad for graner. apparently none of those chinese yellow ribbon magnets had any effect on the situation he found himself in.

Yeah. He should have bought more ribbons; then he could've made it through...

I don't feel terribly sorry for him, though. I mean, he was a stalker, and an abuser. Incarceration sounds about right...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:54 am | #

it's weird. i would have thought that with all of those yellow chinese magnets out here, things would have worked out differently for graner.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:55 am | #

i don't feel tremendously sorry for him either, rorschach, but i do feel kind of sorry for him. his co will never even be charged with anything. in fact his co will be portrayed as some sort of good guy.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:57 am | #

Well, my cats are sleepy, so I probably need to be going bed shortly as well.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 7:57 am | #

Taiwanese, Olaf. Lets make sure we get that correct.

Far as Graner goes - he knew he had the green weenie coming no matter what.

Standing by my word - It'll be a long wait for an officer to ever be charged, let alone courts martialed under the UCMJ.

Ain't gunna happen. If it does, I'll be completely shocked, and amazed.
It would be a minimal sentence at worst.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 7:58 am | #

his co will probably get a medal and a promotion
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 7:59 am | #

barndog knows how it works
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:01 am | #

Seen enough shit while I was in to have a damm good idea. 15 years is alot of OJT.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 8:03 am | #

If the 80s had gone on much longer, I would've hung myself.

But, as far as female 80s singers go, Cocteau Twins + Sinead O' Connor stand out for me.
BlakNo1 | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:06 am | #

500 Internal Server Error

An internal server error occurred. Please try again later.

HaloScan, I love you. But I want to know for sure.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 8:06 am | #

Sinead isn't all that good live though.
BlakNo1 | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:07 am | #

She's also become a bit of a basket case these days as well.
BlakNo1 | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:08 am | #

keep calling them on their shit, barndog. i was too young for vietnam but when i was a kid damn near everyone i knew had a brother or father who was there, going there, or just got back. lots of them did come back. where are they now?
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:08 am | #

Seen enough shit while I was in to have a damm good idea. 15 years is alot of OJT.
Barndog

I went throught training beside Marines while in the Army. There's a reason they throw the Marines in there first and not Air Force or Navy cadets or lastly, us.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 8:11 am | #

incog, you owe us like a whole shitload of cat pictures, btw.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:13 am | #

have you connected with string yet?
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:14 am | #

Not that the Army sucked, they throw us in second after the Marines. Air Force and Navy are sort of out of the picture.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 8:16 am | #

incog, these days they aren't even throwing the army. they are throwing the iowa national guard.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:19 am | #

NEWS FROM THE BBC: this is a REAL news story, I am NOT making this up!

US military pondered love not war

The unconventional proposals were made by the US Air Force

The US military investigated building a "gay bomb", which would make enemy soldiers "sexually irresistible" to each other, government papers say.

Other weapons that never saw the light of day include one to make soldiers obvious by their bad breath.

The US defence department considered various non-lethal chemicals meant to disrupt enemy discipline and morale.

The 1994 plans were for a six-year project costing $7.5m, but they were never pursued.
Elaine Supkis | 01.15.05 - 8:20 am | #

Imagine bin Laden getting a hold of such a bomb and dropping it on Congress....and then noticing the men were behaving the exact same way as before!

No change

Drop it on the WH and Rove and Bush will pause and say, "Huh" and then go back to whanking each other.
Elaine Supkis | 01.15.05 - 8:22 am | #

i don't mean to dog on the iowa national guard. i'm sure they are pretty good at whatever it is that they do in iowa. they are not very good combat soldiers though.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:22 am | #

have you connected with string yet?
Olaf glad and big

Not yet. I came home from work at about 1:30 am and he's always been there to greet me. I thought he was there because I was missed. But, apparently, he was just lying on the linoleum floor because it's been warmer than usual and it's cooler there. When I got home tonight, I panicked, of course, thinking why isn't he here to greet me. Something must be wrong. But it was just that it was cold in my house and he eventually emerged from his warm spot on the carpet under a sofa.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 8:23 am | #

The US military investigated building a "gay bomb", which would make enemy soldiers "sexually irresistible" to each other, government papers say.

Yeah, as someone said when I mentioned this story yesterday...This right up there with trying to make Castro's beard fall out...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:23 am | #

Let's just say, I have not a perfect record by any account. Marines consider it a badge of Honor to have at least 1 NJP (non-judicial punishment) in their record. I even managed a couple in the Guards.

And, out of all of it - I still have a Marine Good Conduct & the Army Reserve Component Achievement Medal.

So, maybe I wasn't a model Marine or soldier by those recruiting pictures everyone sees. But, getting the mission accomplished - right the first time, and doing whatever was necessary to complete it was always my priority.

What matters to me isn't the medals and all that stupid shit. It's the fact I was able to give back to my country, and at the same time find the true understanding of what patriotism is all about.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 8:24 am | #

whe
weapons of homo eroticism
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:24 am | #

incog, you should get another cat. string needs a buddy. cats don't like to be alone. they think they do but they don't.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:26 am | #

C-Span had a panel of experts on last night to discuss Bushboy's sinister "privatization scam" for Social Security.

Among the many important things they said (which mainstream media will probably never reveal), is that the benefits paid to the young and those soon to retire would be higher after 2052 (the ostensible critical date) if NOTHING WAS DONE, as opposed to implementing the "private accounts" Bushboy is so zealously selling!

The idea that Bushboy and his Financial Services greedhead friends are pitching is that the reduction in SS benefits will be "made up" by the growth in the "private accounts."

According to the CBO and the SS actuaries, this is extremely unlikely and the probability is that when the reduced benefits and the private accounts are added together, they will be far below what the benefits would be if nothing had been done.
Rudy | 01.15.05 - 8:29 am | #

there is probably nothing in your house that string can sneak up on and pounce on, incog. that is the only thing he cares about. sneaking up and pouncing. if you had another cat they could sneak and pounce all day and they would be happy as clams.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:30 am | #

What matters to me isn't the medals and all that stupid shit. It's the fact I was able to give back to my country, and at the same time find the true understanding of what patriotism is all about.
Barndog

C'mon.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 8:31 am | #

semi OT re: Zonkette:

Gosh this ethics business is just so complicated...

let's see... major nationally syndicated columnist takes taxpayer money in an explicit quid-pro-quo for pushing NCLB, never discloses the deal...

...blogger takes payment from privately funded political campaign for technical services, NON quid pro quo as regards to what he decides to post, fully discloses the deal...

but both involve money and political writing! So it's all the same!

Can we call her Wankerette from now on???
renato | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:32 am | #

"Media Matters" catalogues a list of news reports given by NBC and ABC where Social Security was discussed this past week.

In both instances the "spokesmen" presented were both "private account" advocates, although the network reporters did not introduce them as such.

In other words, they presented stooges from the Cato Institute and other rightwing sources as "unbiased" or objective experts on SS.

The SCLM at work for the Bushboy regime again!!!
Rudy | 01.15.05 - 8:32 am | #

weapons of homo eroticism

That's pretty good, Olaf. LOL
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 8:33 am | #

re: the 'gay bomb', couldn't they achieve roughly the same effect by having a DJ mix Bronski Beat, Frankie Goes To Hollywood and Erasure over a really loud PA stack?
renato | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:34 am | #

incog, you should get another cat. string needs a buddy. cats don't like to be alone. they think they do but they don't.
Olaf glad and big

Look, I can barely keep up with changing the litter box every few days with just him.

He's on the prowl right now, by the way. Everything is being explored.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 8:35 am | #

bronski beat. man, i thought i remembered all the crappy 80s bands. forgot that one.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:36 am | #

The US military investigated building a "gay bomb", which would make enemy soldiers "sexually irresistible" to each other, government papers say.

Weapons of mass erection...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:37 am | #

Just as Bushboy's tax-cuts for the rich has turned out to be a costly scam for the American people that has looted the US treasury and produced record and on-going deficits, and just as Bushboy bum-rushed the nation into the disastrous and unnecessary Iraq war (and continues to lie about it as a "war on terrorism"), so Bushboy and his rich partners in crime are now about looting the prize jewel of America's retirement system, Social Security.

The facts, not the opinions, but the simple mathematical and actuarial facts are that "privatization" is a costly and risky scheme that will cost future retirees dearly. If implemented the other key fact is that the Financial Services industry will be the biggest beneficiary, making hundreds in billions in new commissions and fees on the new "private SS accounts."

Since the Financial Services industry is Bushboy's biggest backer, it is not surprising that Bushboy would be huckstering for them and selling out middle-class and poor Americans without giving it a second thought!
Rudy | 01.15.05 - 8:39 am | #

incog, i don't know what you mean by "on the prowl" and i don't know how old string is, but you must have his nuts cut off stat. if you think the litterbox smells bad, wait til he starts spraying. once he starts he won't stop, even if you cut off his nuts.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 8:41 am | #

as one of my ex-friends loved to remind me, the 80s sometimes really sucked. Well actually she said they sucked all the time but I claimed they only sucked part-time. Any decade that gave us The Smiths can't be all bad.

Totally sucky 80s bands:

Flock of Seagulls
Quiet Riot
Just about every big hair hard rock band (e.g., Poison, Ratt). Motley Crue's first two albums excepted.
Swing Out Sister
Quarterflash
Milli Vanilli (well DUH)
Romeo Void
Tiffany
Stacey Q
Samantha Fux

and now for something potentially embarrassing... I kinda liked Dead or Alive
renato | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:44 am | #

oh I forgot Aldo Nova.

Wait, I'm glad that I forgot Aldo Nova.
renato | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:46 am | #

C'mon what? I didn't go in for the money. If you call $192.50 a month fucking big time cash... then something's wrong. I also happened to go in, when the GI Bill had stopped. So, it wasn't a college thing either.

I knew the risks, worked 20 hour days in a helo squadron, flew quite a few thousand hours in a Huey. Took plenty of chances, every day.

I would think that you, of anyone should realize what sacrifice, Honor, and duty mean. If you really understand what the Constitution and Bill of Rights means, and by what sacrifices it came from, then thats where I found my interpretation.

Maybe yours is different.
Barndog | 01.15.05 - 8:46 am | #

renato...you spin me right round, baby right round.
her eyes on herizon | 01.15.05 - 8:46 am | #

Other SS facts that the mass media will probably overlook or neglect to mention over the next few months:

1. If Bushboy's tax cuts for the rich were terminated, there would be more than enough funds to make up the Social Security "shortfall" by 2052.

2. If Bushboy's ending of the Estate Tax in 2010 were abrogated, there would be enough money to make up the SS shortfall by 2052.

3. If the limit on paying into SS was raised above the current $90,000/year income to say $120,000/year, there would be enough money in SS to eliminate any reduction in benefits after 2052.

Notice how all of the above are relatively painless solutions (except to the very rich who will never miss the money) to the SS "problem."

So why does Bushboy want to take all of these off the table and concentrate only on "Private accounts?"

Because the Banks and the Brokerage Houses are salivating about making all those commissions and fees off the new SS "private accounts."

And that's all that really matters to our depraved and moronic POTUS.
Rudy | 01.15.05 - 8:47 am | #