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I'MMA LET YOU FINISH

Because it's true that he could have sent e-mails to everyone on the planet and chose not to, clearly he was hiding the fact.
SteveNS | 01.15.05 - 12:21 am | #

The news that the earth revolves around the sun, while prominently reported and discussed in the scientific community, came as a surprise to people who've had their heads up their asses.
zap | 01.15.05 - 12:22 am | #

If what someone says is true, what difference does it make why she or he says it?
The Dude Abides | 01.15.05 - 12:23 am | #

The gist of it is, the only individuals whom the public can trust are accredited journalists.

Our ethics are above fucking reproach.
Judith Miller | 01.15.05 - 12:24 am | #

I hear that our lander will be met with flowers and candy
Bobby Peru | 01.15.05 - 12:24 am | #

Oh, this is so fucking lame. Next!
Doozer among Fraggles | 01.15.05 - 12:25 am | #

This shows the new journalistic ethics in action: make it look equally bad for both sides. If one side is guilty of mass murder, point out that the other side swats flies, too.
Echidne of the snakes | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:26 am | #

What's new is Teachout's revelation that the Dean campaign hired Armstrong because they wanted him to give them good blog...

Sad attempt at tittilating humor while being an idiot.

I think that's illegal in some states.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 12:28 am | #

Nor does working for the Washington Post Company "make someone a journalist".
I prefer Chris Cliffbarnestrope.
sean | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:28 am | #

Then a "whole lot of prominent bloggers" are either fucking morons or shitheaded liars.

For God's sake.

I thought I'd seen some bullshit "scandals" before, but this one has really scraped past the bottom of the barrel straight down into the motherfucking septic tank.

Earth to morons: THIS IS NOT A FUCKING SCANDAL. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU MAKE BELIEVE IT IS, IT JUST FUCKING ISN'T.

Sorry, was I shouting?
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:28 am | #

"The Submerging Democratic Minority"

A new book by Ruy Teixeira.

What will RT say when Wisconsin flipz red in 2008??
Trolly | 01.15.05 - 12:28 am | #

Fridays are such slow news days.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 12:29 am | #

The dual requirements of an appearance of balance and an in-depth investigation to get to the truth are in full opposition. Seems to me the ethical obligation of journalism is not balance, but truth.
The Dude Abides | 01.15.05 - 12:29 am | #

Dude Abides, do u live in a red or blue state. I'm in a bigtime blue state which sux!!
Trolly | 01.15.05 - 12:30 am | #

I'm too pissed off about this stuff. I'm going shopping for baking stuff, as I plan to take my frustration out on a pan of kick-ass cinnamon rolls tomorrow.

Yeeeaarrrgh!
Stinky | 01.15.05 - 12:31 am | #

Jesus.

I'm running out of disbelief here.
MisterX | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:31 am | #

trolly-notjenna, flip over huh hun and give yer tush a rest...typing upside down shouldn't affect your posts too awfully much, ok sweetie?
geraldo | 01.15.05 - 12:32 am | #

Stinky,
A kick-pan of cinammon-ass rolls, maybe??
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 12:33 am | #

I'm in a bigtime blue state.
Ha! Proof...what did the upscale Manhattan bars close early dear?
geraldo | 01.15.05 - 12:34 am | #

Shorter Chris Sullentrop:

I'm a lazy hack who didn't feel like researching all this nonsense I'm writing.

There, I just wrote his whole ridiculous column. When do I get paid?
Ally | 01.15.05 - 12:34 am | #

The whole point of talking about this is to forget about Armstrong Williams and his case which is much more important to discuss. I feel like we are being led by the nose to a different feeding trough. You know, the stuff about "Look over there! Nothing to see here!"

The crucial point of the Williams case is that it was the government and the taxpayers' funds which were used to buy propaganda time on the airwaves.
Echidne of the snakes | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:40 am | #

Well, I've been looking at Wikipedia's page on the 2006 senate elections and I predict +4 seats for the Repubs, including Jeffords going down. Also both Nelsons will go down (Nebr and Fla, both dems).

58-42 senate, Baby!
Trolly | 01.15.05 - 12:43 am | #

Shortest Suellen:

Moral relativsim (even though it's neither moral nor relative - discuss).
S in Mich | 01.15.05 - 12:44 am | #

We're witnessing the latest payola-driven fake media storm. They've ginned up a false accusation to try and cloud the issue of payola. We should not only be debunking the fake story but widen to reveal the real purpose--to hide the real story of the entire right wing punditry being on the take.
puppethead | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:47 am | #

Amen Echidne,

The sclm are so oblivious in their corporate-manufactured "realities" that they can't tell the difference anymore between taxpayer-funded propaganda used against taxpayers themselves otoh and candidates running for office on their own money oto. Hell, I have no problems with punk-ass chump hiring hacks and flacks on his own dime. Just don't hose me with my own money.
dedominator | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:47 am | #

Rhetorical suellentrop:

Q: If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?

Suellentrop: Did the tree check with me first?
watertiger | 01.15.05 - 12:47 am | #

There has been over 12,500 complaints to the FCC against Amstrong Williams.

I've been reading Kos for about six months, and I think they just may have picked the wrong guy to fuck with.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 12:47 am | #

Oh, fuck Sue Ellen.
This is from the Crossfart thread below, which appears to be post-mortimer;

Someone's probably asked this already, but why does the Right like Dem moderates so much? Why wouldn't Novak be happier to see a flaming liveral take the helm at the DNC? Begala, I can understand; he's a Dem and entitled to his preference--if that really is it--but it seems to me the Right should be thinking "the more Liberals in the DNC the better". Just seems odd.
Doozer among Fraggles | 01.15.05 - 12:48 am | #

i think the point that he is making is that the information was only on a few internets. duh.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 12:48 am | #

My head hurts. Who friggin' cares whether they knew or not? He disclosed. Armstrong didn't. The next chair of the DNC better be Howard Dean. That is all.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 12:49 am | #

Trolly!

Come back to bed, you little scamp . . .
Andrew "Furry Daddy" Sullivan | 01.15.05 - 12:50 am | #

Someone's probably asked this already, but why does the Right like Dem moderates so much?

Because they are such big pussies. GOP knows that Begala et. al. will stick with the same losing game plan no matter how often it fails.

"Good point, Tucker" is why they love the Sensible Liberals.

Plus they get help branding people like Dean as Trotskyite radicals.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 12:52 am | #

He disclosed. Armstrong didn't.

And therein lies the problem. Can't be having our paid assassins outed, y'know? Must take prisoners.
watertiger | 01.15.05 - 12:53 am | #

Hecate: He disclosed. Armstrong didn't.

Put "public money vs. private money" into the equation, and we have it summed out at 100% of the story.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:53 am | #

I've been a long-time reader here, and I hate to say it, Atrios, but you totally misrepresented the gist of that Slate article. The author's main grievance, which hasn't been addressed, is that Kos also "disclosed" that he was being paid as a consultant to at least one 'Congressional' candidate whose name he has refused to disclose. That is a different issue than the Dean campaign issue, and is something worthy of actual debate.
Andrew | 01.15.05 - 12:53 am | #

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

My first unclosed tag ever!!

Oh, the humanity.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 12:54 am | #

Grey Psoda; I was thinking more of Novak's seeming endorsement of Frost for DNC, over Dean.
Doozer among Fraggles | 01.15.05 - 12:55 am | #

i hope kos sues the bastards. he's a lawyer isn't he?
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 12:55 am | #

Fuck! That dumb twit Zepher needs to fess up that she is a slave to a political cult. She is what creeps me out about the "Deaniacs".

That she is now trashing Dean supporters is really troubling. And trashing good folks who continue to support him tells me she has a *cult* problem.
bigvic | 01.15.05 - 12:57 am | #

"Good point, Tucker" is why they love the Sensible Liberals.

Plus they get help branding people like Dean as Trotskyite radicals.
Grey Psoda | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:52 am

To paraphrase Jim Hightower: the only thing in the middle is roadkill.

I am sick, sick, sick of guys like Begala who constantly bend over and allow the right to spank them for the sake of "civility".

Fuck. That. Shit.
Dirk | 01.15.05 - 12:58 am | #

And isn't the timing interesting: right on the same day that Kos posts a survey showing Dean as the front-runner for head of the DNC. Somebody out there doesn't want that to happen ...
Brooklyn Girl | 01.15.05 - 12:59 am | #

Dirk: Fuck. That. Shit.

Pabst! Blue! Ribbon!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:59 am | #

Hey, not wes, things might be looking up: article
tigrismus | 01.15.05 - 1:00 am | #

I am sick, sick, sick of guys like Begala who constantly bend over and allow the right to spank them for the sake of "civility".

Fuck. That. Shit.

Can we get Gilliard on telly?
Eli | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:01 am | #

I think this Slate guy is on to something. It is possible, I mean just possible, that Iraq and the war on terror are going just fine and dandy and we only think they are fucked up because Howard Dean paid a bunch of bloggers to say so. Isnt it? Well, okay, maybe not. Where is my medicine?
Sentenza | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:02 am | #

i want to know if kurt vonnegut took money for making up zephyr teachout's name.

i posted that on another thread but i'm kind of proud of it, just like i am proud of the fonzie emoticon (which i invented):

A

at least i'm not a blogwhore.
Olaf glad and big | 01.15.05 - 1:02 am | #

Oh, for fuck's sake! All that's going wrong in the world and people are wasting time(i.e. money) and media space (i.e. money) on how loudly Kos and Armstrong proclaimed their "alleigence" to Dean? Why even dignify this accusation with a reply?

That repug creep Williams took nearly a quarter million TAXPAYERS' dollars to feed the TAXPAYERS repug propaganda!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT is the issue Dems need to focus on! Not this distraction created about liberal bloggers. And when the repugs bring up Kos and Armstrong, we need to ignore them and keep shouting about Williams and his "work."
QuinnLaBelle | 01.15.05 - 1:02 am | #

at least i'm not a blogwhore.

Just an emoticonwhore...
Eli | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:03 am | #

Interesting that WaPo decided it had to attack one of the leading liberal bloggers on the net. Niiiiice. So, did the purchase of Slate from M$ give them that mic into the blogosphere they've been looking for? Guess they were just tired of taking kidney shots to their credibility. Attacking blogs directly in the fishwrap just gave the truth-telling bloggers a little too much pub.

Soillentrash is a not even a party hack. S/he is a mouthpiece for the Washington Post. Ewwww. Talk about sinking to the depths. Hope mommy and daddy didn't pay too much for that degree. I guess s/he is trying to curry favor with the new owners of the right-wing, downtrodden e-rag.

Slate used to be ok back in the day, but it kept losing money with its policy of truth-telling. Anyone else find it ironic that the Washington Post has exposed its strategy for leaking anti-liberal stories?
Peter | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:05 am | #

An observation. The "Republican Noise Machine" threw out some trash to get us all talking about something other than who ELSE besides Armstrong Williams was on the take -- AND IT WORKED.
Dave Johnson | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:07 am | #

Must be nice to live in a blue state where you imagine that anyone EVEN notices this shit. My right wing friends, and fucking-A believe me that is the only option when you live in a BLEEDING red state, don't even have the original AW -I am a whore for Shrub-money- story anywhere near their brain-pans, let alone the right-bloviating response. Next.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:09 am | #

The next chair of the DNC better be Howard Dean. That is all.
Hecate

I second the motion. All in favor say Ay.
FeralLiberal | 01.15.05 - 1:09 am | #

I wrote to CNN via the Crossfire e-form... said essentially that it's no wonder the WSJ and CNN are getting their respective asses handed to them by the bloggers -- at least bloggers know the difference between disclosure of receipt of public funds, vs. NON-disclosure of PUBLIC funds...
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:10 am | #

Fuck off Sullentrop. What an awful last name by the way.
jr | 01.15.05 - 1:10 am | #

Know what this reminds me of? The knuckle-draggers who shrieked that John Kerry had unconscionably "outed" Mary Cheney because even if she WAS already out by her own choice, there were a lot of people watching that debate who had no idea, none I tell you.
forked tongue | 01.15.05 - 1:11 am | #

i want to know if kurt vonnegut took money for making up zephyr teachout's name.

Wanted to know that as well. The media profiles I read about her and some really wanker Deaniacs lead me to believe they were not to be taken seriously.
bigvic | 01.15.05 - 1:11 am | #

Ay.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 1:13 am | #

guys, you are pushing this story more than them.

Have you not learned anything from the swift boat liars?

not wes | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 12:41 am | #

Sorry, bud, but at last count:

--Novak had talked about it
--O'Reilly had talked about it
--the WSJ had talked about it
--Begala had tacitly agreed to it
--Sullentrop had talked about it
--the guy interviewing Roemer on CNN talked about it.

Why don't you reevaluate who exactly is doing the "pushing?"

It's the "Dean Scream" version 2,0, coincidentally timed, among other reasons, to damage his bid for the DNC chairmanship.
Jeremiah Elias | 01.15.05 - 1:13 am | #

Forked Tongue, you nailed it. Rove is a fucking twisted genius. And the American public, alas, well, we're doughy pantloades.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:13 am | #

C'mon guys... stay with me, here! James Bath just left, but he left me with party favors. I need company, and I sure as hell ain't drivin' nowhere.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:13 am | #

Damn, it's midnight (Central time) and I've turned into a pumpkin.

'night all!
FeralLiberal | 01.15.05 - 1:14 am | #

It isn't a problem that WE are talking about what the Noise Machine threw out.

It's a problem if the MSM is talking about what the Noise Machine tossed their way.

Because we're talking about how the MSM is talking about what the Noise Machine wants it to talk about. whereas the MSM is talking about what the Noise Machine wants it to talk about without knowing that that is what the Noise Machine wants it to talk about.

So ... that's ... well, kinda different, man.
Lisa | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:16 am | #

markos is probably straight.

i have my complaints about his dailykos site, but it is his site. if he and steve gilliard hated my likening john kerry to george bush[boner versus boner = no contest] on that site, they could have expressed their objections to my pov publicly.

what continues to disturb me is that gilliard was allowed the right to erase the entire record of my posts - most of them dealing with boner versus boner - before the election. and banning me forever from that site.

well, the boner-manipulated elections are over now. and in retrospect, i think that it is clear to all that kerry was not really contesting the incumbency of the unelected resident.

does anyone disagree with me that the kerry campaign, the dnc, the dlc, was/are a large bit of fraud?

kos and gilliard punished me for telling the truth.

in my posts, i never used an ugly word. i never disparaged anyone.

all i ever said was that the election was boner versus boner. which meant that kerry was doing a bit of professional wrestling..and not intent on achieving victory.

now, some of you might conclude that i got it accurately.

the question i continue to raise is this...why would kos and his acolyte have such an interest in squelching my pov?

why was the proposition that john kerry was a fraudulent candidate greeted with such hostility?

could so many fail to see how the boners rule the country?

you know, i care about this country. and i don't care. at the same time.

when the left proves itself to be as censorius as the right, as i think it has proven itself to be, i am terrified about the future of this country.

concluding, i doff my hat to duncan, for providing me this uncensored air.

mazeltov,
albertchampion | 01.15.05 - 1:18 am | #

Rove is a fucking twisted genius.

Anybody could look like a fucking twisted genius when the media will spread lies for you, and the candidate that run against have no testicles.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:18 am | #

You know what's really funny?

I write for a living. I get paid for string words together.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Sweeet.
Lisa | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:20 am | #

Doh!

candidate that run against have no testicles. = candidates that run against you have no testicles
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:22 am | #

It's the sake talking. Lots of good warm sake on a cold cold night.

Hope others had as fun a Friday night as we did.

KERRY IN A LANDSLIDE! (just for auld lang syne)
Lisa | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:23 am | #

Andrew: You're right, that is a point worthy of discussion. But Suellentrop says Kos committed a hanging offense, when this is CLEARLY not the case. Discussing the average temperature at which water freezes is worthwhile, but NOT when the Titanic is sinking. Slate aren't interested in an academic debate about ethics, they're interested in maintaining their "credibility" to the wurlitzer.
Padraig | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:24 am | #

Hoyt,
Granted, given those conditions, even MY lame ass could come across as a genius. Rove earns twisted genius status in his willingness, Lyndon Johnson style, to work his ass off, and - literally - leave no turn unstoned during a campaign. Ain't it kinda telling that the two worst presidents in my lifetime are the two from the lone star State???
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:26 am | #

KERRY IN A LANDSLIDE!

Did Kerry start running for 2008? Fuck him, skull & bones kissy boy.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:26 am | #

P.S. 'Cause you know G sr. ain't really from tejas.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:26 am | #

concluding, i doff my hat to duncan, for providing me this uncensored air.

mazeltov,
albertchampion

Yeah, thanks for allowing ALL of us a place to speak.

And, albertchampion, a lot of what you observe is what is probably real... except the "boner" stuff... I think much of that has faded and lost influence, to be replaced with a different s+b-type shit. A more business oriented paranoid conspiracy, if you will.
MisterX | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:26 am | #

Albert C:
I dunno if I'd agree that the Kerry campaign was a fraud. But it wasn't a good campaign, that's for sure.

That was the first campaign I really got involved in. I bet a lot of people here would say that.

And they let us down, Fredo. The Kerry campaign, the Dems, the whole lot of 'em. They let us down.

Fuckers.

But then there's sake to be had tonight.
Lisa | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:29 am | #

I'm sure the Kerry campaign could have been run better, but I don't think it would have made a difference. A lot of people were just convinced that Bush would kill more terrorists --thanks to the media, which truly dictates the character of a campaign -- and nothing Kerry said would have convinced them otherwise.

After all, he's from Massachusettes!

Kerry didn't let us down. The American people let us down, let the whole world down. Kerry wasn't the perfect candidate, but his superiority to Bush would have been obvious in a halfway-rational society.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 1:33 am | #

Rove had the entire press on his side, a macho war-time president, with tons of money. And still had to use a corrupt sec of state to suppress the vote in Ohio. Also, how many votes did they steal in the red states with republican, corporate supplied ES&S & Diebold machines with no paper trail. He's not a genius, just a cheating, lying, little worm who has no honor.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:34 am | #

Well said H.C.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 1:35 am | #

I volunteered for Kerry, went to a couple of his rallys, at the time I thought he was doing alright. But looking back on it now, there is sooooo much more Kerry could have done. Just the "Bring it on " phrase probably could have done it, if it was used properly. Having the Demo conv early and deciding not to hammer Bush during it was ridiculous.

Why in the fuck he conceded then went and hid while John Conyers and Barbara Boxer did all the heavy lifting I'll never figure out. For that I'll never forgive him, this was the most important election in history. I'm mean if your future electability is more important to you than your country, you might as well be a Repug.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:45 am | #

Still trying to come to grips with the fact that KOS is a paid shill, Duncan? No, you're right, it didn't come as a surprise.
laughing | 01.15.05 - 1:46 am | #

Hoyt, I fully agree with his being of invertabrate fish-bait status, he's still a twisted little genius. Considering that his candidates, and he has a long history of this, get elected.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 1:48 am | #

laughing: Still trying to come to grips with the fact that KOS is a paid shill, Duncan? No, you're right, it didn't come as a surprise.

How about the "unable to grasp basic concepts" troll?

I bet this guy would also say (after last week's Jonah revelation, "Still trying to come to grips with the fact that Steve Gilliard is black, Duncan?"
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:49 am | #

Rovian Rule of Acquisition #7:

Attack your opponents' strengths.

Rovian Rule of Acquisition #9:

If you are guilty of a crime, pre-emptively accuse your opponents of a similar "crime".

Rovian Rule of Acquisition #1327:

When all else fails, muddy the waters with rumor and ad hominem attacks.

*
Hecate rocks. that is all.

-Librarian
(who didn't plan to be on the phone with mum for quite so long, but she's got some health issues going on.)
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:50 am | #

We got our asses handed to us.

Do you really call the margin the Dems lost by in this election getting their asses handed to them?

If so, you are retarded.

Let me guess, Gore got his ass handed to him in 2000, right?

YOU FUCKING RETARDED FUCK!
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 1:51 am | #

laughing

Still trying to come to grips with your little dick?
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:51 am | #

"suellentropc@slate.com"

"works closely with a network of rapid responders, a group of digital brownshirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors and publishers and advertisers"
hat | 01.15.05 - 1:51 am | #

Still trying to come to grips with your little dick?

Grips? More like tweezers...
Warren Terra | 01.15.05 - 1:52 am | #

Hmmph.

Dems have the edge in state-level representatives. We won that. We narrowed the state lege margin.

My red county went blue. Locally, we won. Because of us. Chased the motherfuckers right out of here, actually.

We were not given any chance to win, and we won, door to door, person to person. And we've already made people's lives better.

Volunteer locally, we'll win more. Believe!
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 1:53 am | #

Oh, and let's review what this is really about, little liar "atrios":

Teachout: "we paid Markos and Jerome Armstrong as consultants, largely in order to ensure that they said positive things about Dean."

Markos: "For the record, I will not discuss my role within the Dean campaign, other than to say it's technical, not message or strategy."

So someone is lying.

Now who is the "wanker"?
hat | 01.15.05 - 1:54 am | #

Nikkei Market Tumbles at Opening Bell Over Dean Payola Rumors!

Tsunami Victims Reject US Aid: "This Might Be Tainted Blog Money," says Homeless Sri Lankan

OBL Threatens "Wrath of Allah on an Electric Pogo Stick" over Kos Scandal!
Reuters | 01.15.05 - 1:55 am | #

Thersites, you are right. It takes work as well as money. And we don't even have to tell people they'll go to hell if they vote for the other party.
Warren Terra | 01.15.05 - 1:55 am | #

Dems have the edge in state-level representatives. We won that. We narrowed the state lege margin.

My red county went blue. Locally, we won. Because of us. Chased the motherfuckers right out of here, actually.

We were not given any chance to win, and we won, door to door, person to person. And we've already made people's lives better.

Volunteer locally, we'll win more. Believe!
Thersites

ROTFLMAO!

You keep winning like this and pretty soon the democratic party will be extinct.

Too fucking funny.
laughing | 01.15.05 - 1:56 am | #

albertchampion,

You're full of shit. I never pulled a single post on Kos, NetSlaves or my own site.

If I banned you for my site, it wasn't for going after Kerry. But then, since I didn't ban anyone from Kos, I'm calling you a liar.

The fact is that I didn't have the power to do anything more than post on Kos and he made every single decision on who posted or replied there.

I have banned disrputive people from NetSlaves and my site, but never Kos, so please stop with the bullshit.

And I can count on one hand the people I've had to kick, and it's hardly a secret when it happens. So fuck you, you goddamn liar.
steve_gilliard | 01.15.05 - 1:56 am | #

laughing

I know I'm an idiot for asking, but did you watch any of the testimony on C-Span or read any of the 102 page report that the Honorable John Conyers issued afterwards, on the voting issues in Ohio. Or do you just believe what the conservative junkie tells you?
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 1:58 am | #

Can't take it anymore..downloading Firefox...
Starr Jones | 01.15.05 - 1:58 am | #

Laughing is the perfect example of the "Another Friday night and I'm praying to Allah" troll that was mentioned on a previous thread. It stands to reason he has a tiny shriveled thingie.

(Again, I'm aware of the irony in the fact, that I, too, am a huge loser in the friday night date category).
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 2:00 am | #

Mooo.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

You keep winning like this and pretty soon the democratic party will be extinct.

You mean, with the county assembly, most judgeships, the county executive, the state assembly, indeed 75% of local positions including incumbents, going Dem?

Dems won locally. Dems matched GOP big corporate money with small donations. The momentum is ours, silly wabbit.

That's why you and Bush cannot afford to tell the truth. It's our day, tomorrow.

Avaunt, pale shade! I cast you out!
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

Hoyt,

When it comes to voter fraud, the democrats are the experts. Always have been. Now that you guys can no longer win elections you are looking for excuses. Doesn't bode well for you.
laughing | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

Laughing Hat Wanker.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

Shorter laughing:

"Mission Accomplished!"

"Bring 'em on!"
Warren Terra | 01.15.05 - 2:01 am | #

The news that the earth revolves around the sun, while prominently reported and discussed in the scientific community...

M$M: That, of course, is just a theory. We go now to our panel of experts consisting of evangelical fundamentalists, flat earthers and, from the scientific community for balance, proponents of Intelligent Design.
George Johnston | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:02 am | #

laughing

Is that a yes or a no?
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 2:02 am | #

"
Let me guess, Gore got his ass handed to him in 2000, right?

YOU F***ING RETARDED F***!
Grey Psoda "

You might ask him if Clinton got his ass handed to him twice before that?
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:02 am | #

The momentum is ours, silly wabbit.

Yeah, you are just riding that win streak.

Unfuckingbelievable.
laughing | 01.15.05 - 2:03 am | #

Grey, Making telling points all thread long.

I really have to quit smoking the ganj.
Grotesqueticle | 01.15.05 - 2:04 am | #

Hoyt Clagwell: Is that a yes or a no?

Don't bother with him.

But my daddy would have said, "I'll give you two guesses -- and the first one don't count!"
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:04 am | #

I admire Atrios's crafty retributional misspelling of Suellentrop's name, given the fact that Slate's ace "journalist," scourge of those unaccredited and irresponsible lefty bloggers, twice misspells Kos's last name as "Zunida" (they've since fixed, without comment, the first misspelling, but haven't caught the second one yet, which still names the consulting firm of "Armstrong-Zunida").

It would also be too much to ask, I suppose, for Suellentrop to actually, say research into the libelous insinuation he poses at the conclusion of his article. He might, for instance, have done a quick check of FEC records (which any campaign that hired Kos would be required to submit--unlike the governmental criminals who funded Williams). Or, indeed, he might even have actually read Kos's blog, where he stated that he took no money from any of the Kos Dozen. But heck, this reporting stuff is hard work...

Uberwanker.
WendellGee | 01.15.05 - 2:04 am | #

We go now to our panel of experts consisting of evangelical fundamentalists, flat earthers and, from the scientific community for balance, proponents of Intelligent Design.

Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 2:05 am | #

When it comes to voter fr--

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz...
dave | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:09 am | #

Wendell--Changing Zunida to Zuniga doesn't fix anything, since anyone who read Kos--or looks at the first sentence on his "About" link--knows his surname is Moulitsas. Or anyone who read his front-page post today. Anyone using Zuniga/Zunida is simply following the WSJ error that Kos responded to immediately.

I know Spanish double surnames can be confusing (especially when one is Greek), but so does Kos so he clears it up with one click.
Draco | 01.15.05 - 2:10 am | #

BTW, brownshirt, there's a job waiting for you...

You might even get to play "Pick Up the Soap" in the showers!
dave | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:10 am | #

Yeah, you are just riding that win streak.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Um, yeah.... don't believe it, then.

I warned you, ya big goof.

You only have lies, braggadocio, and hubris.

I saw with my own eyes what happens to your sort in time. We won my county. We'll win it again.

We made people's lives better by local activism. We are everywhere.

We believe. We'll win.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:11 am | #

I wrote to CNN via the Crossfire e-form... said essentially that it's no wonder the WSJ and CNN are getting their respective asses handed to them by the bloggers -- at least bloggers know the difference between disclosure of receipt of public funds, vs. NON-disclosure of PUBLIC funds...

Damn that James Bath!

I intended to say:

"... disclosure of receipt of PRIVATE funds..."
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:12 am | #

laughing,

I'm guessing you own a corporation, or your in the top 2% of the wealthiest people in America, because they're the only ones that won anything in this election.
Hoyt Clagwell | 01.15.05 - 2:12 am | #

Even had Kos (and the 3rd tenor) taken payoffs, how simple-minded do the wingbats consider their readers do be?

I'm obnoxiously opiniated in my politics. So, if Atrios were to wheel even 90 degrees from where familiarity has enabled me to gague where his head and heart are at, I'd recognize it in a split second. As would everyone else.

The fact this phoney baloney "scandal" has been manufactured in such maladroit fashion leads me to suspect many millions more tax dollars have been misappropriated, and have lined the pockets of a great many, prominent "neo-con" mediawhores.
Sovereign Eye | 01.15.05 - 2:12 am | #

Meh, being a journalist doesn't make you a Journalist. See exhibiit A: the Slate: all the inadequecies of a Microsoft product with none of the personality.
billoreilyslovechild | 01.15.05 - 2:14 am | #

"Even had Kos (and the 3rd tenor) taken payoffs, how simple-minded do the wingbats consider their readers do be? "

Consider the LGF and Freepers. If they go on their examples, they do not realize that other blogs do have a readership that might not be simple minded.
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:14 am | #

Meanwhile, over at Kos, /DavidNYC nails it.

Nice try, brownshirts... well, actually, pretty lame try. I was just trying to be nice.

You can go back to jerking off in Mommy's basement and trying to avoid putting your money where your mouths are again...
dave | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:20 am | #

America's Memory: If anyone knows where "my" website is, I'd appreciate having the address.

I love when they play coy like that. Wilting little wallflower...
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:21 am | #

America's Mem--

Nobody's really interested and nobody really cares.
dave | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:21 am | #

Draco--Yeah, I noticed that too (though Kos does use the "Zuniga" surname in the name of the consulting firm, adding a little to the confusion). So Suellentrop only compounds his reportorial idiocy--referring to Kos at different points in the piece by three different last names: Zuniga, Zunida, and Moulitsas. Clearly it's just further evidence of Kos's shiftiness and evasiveness. He must be hiding something behind all those confusing names...
WendellGee | 01.15.05 - 2:22 am | #

Hey, laughing,

When can we get together so that you'll let me fuck you up your ass?

I know this is really what you are crying out for by posting here.

So, being the kindhearted soul that I am, I would love to fill (get it?) your need.

E-mail me as to when you and I can get together. And don't worry, if you've run out of K-Y. I can always stop off at the store and buy some.

Oh, and hat, as soon as I'm done with laughing, how about you follow through on that promise you gave me to toss my salad?
Jeremiah Elias | 01.15.05 - 2:24 am | #

So, all is bullshit, until we get an answer to the following question:

Most of the people in this country are racist, homophobic morons.

What can we do to change that?

Until that is addressed and resoved, we will continue to lose ground on all counts.
rhetoricky | 01.15.05 - 2:24 am | #

If anyone knows where "my" website is, I'd appreciate having the address

Here you go dude:

http://tinyurl.com/4xnrj
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 2:24 am | #

Most of the people in this country are racist, homophobic morons.

What can we do to change that?

Sterilization?
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 2:25 am | #

America's Memory: So, you don't know the location of "my" website?

Of course I do, sweetie. We've passed it along via e-mail for the last, oh, 19 hours or so. Doubtless, you'd deny it was yours, but what would we expect from a name-stealin' dirtbag -- honesty?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:26 am | #

If anyone knows where "my" website is, I'd appreciate having the address.

I will not address AM after this post. I would not advise anyone speak to him ever.

AM: I spoke to you about a year ago. We exchanged poems. You were playing exactly the same games as you are now.

You are, genuinely, mentally ill. I am not trying to insult you. I am telling you, flat-out, that you need help. Nobody who is sane behaves as you do. I know you have redeeming qualities. But you are obsessional, deluded, and self-obsessed to a dangerous degree.

Please seek the help of a mental health professional, for your own sake.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:26 am | #

AM, I already gave you the URL.
Grey Psoda | 01.15.05 - 2:30 am | #

Put "public money vs. private money" into the equation, and we have it summed out at 100% of the story.

Well, I think also the "illegal vs. legal" aspect is worth considering; after all, it at least appears that Armstrong may have broken "payola" laws and the Bush Administration may have broken the laws prohibiting spending money on government propaganda without specific authority from Congress.
cmdicely | 01.15.05 - 2:30 am | #

AM is most tiresome.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:31 am | #

In case you just thought you were ashamed, I'm makin' sure.

I hate America.
America's Enema | 01.15.05 - 2:31 am | #

America's Memory: A little help would be nice.

See Thersites' post @ 2:26.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:31 am | #

ya know, if America actually *had* a memory, maybe we wouldn't be trying to re-enact the Gilded Age or be bogged down in an un-necessary war.

is it possible America's future is as deranged as America's memory?
America's Malady | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

I haven't read the thread, but I suppose by "prominent bloggers" they mean the assholes nobody on the left read--people like Reynolds and the dickheads who write Powerline and Whizbang.
patriotboy | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

I'm hating the whole "wanker" thing.

Seriously. It's a conspiracy.

Pusillanimous Wanker | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

Who played Commodore Decker, and in what episode?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

America's Memory

You are a bit off. Do you realize that instead of piling on the Liberal's, lately it has been all about you.
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:36 am | #

Who was Commodore Decker's son, and when did he first appear?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:38 am | #

Oh my! Oh me Oh my!
Wow! a chimp in a gourd we have
It thinks it will thirst
And lead us to water.

But it is only rabid
Fomenting disgust.
And dredging the river.
oh me. oh my, oh eye.

It sees everything in frontof it
But can't see itself.
But all it sees
Is light from the back.
Travel Candle | 01.15.05 - 2:39 am | #

for the record, 2004 (if we accept the vote count as certified on the 6th,) was the fourth CLOSEST race in American presidential election history. Bush II "beat" Kerry by a teeny tiny 2.46%, compare that to some of the biggest wins, like FDR's whopping TWENTY FIVE percent margin (popular vote, of course--which Bush II "won" by a negative number in 2000.)

also, in the top five counties to go for Kerry, one is in TEXAS, another in ALABAMA. yes, you heard that correctly.

facts & figures at uselectionatlas.org (free.)

starve a troll, freep a freeper,
-L.

and, as ever, Mandate? MY ASS.

(and for whomever is planning to invade my state--PA--if you can promise to unseat Sen. Rick Man-on-Dog Santorum, we are willing to accept collateral damage.)
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:39 am | #

Concerning the Kos non-story, wasn't it also alleged recently that there was something underhanded about Atrios appearing on Air America?

Who is the intended audience for these smears? Kos and Atrios readers knew what was going on - they wrote about it! Everyone commented on it! We were not deceived by our bloggers and we are not going to be convinced by insinuations from the clueless.

As everyone pointed out upthread, this is just a smoke screen for the ignorant masses. Lying, cheating, stealing, torture, murder - no biggy, everyone does it. Move along, nothing to see here.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 2:41 am | #

All those citing the noise machine are correct. Rightwing radio was bloviating about this non-issue today as well (Clear Channel, coast to coast).

There's another dimension to this as well: Kos and Armstrong's sites are personal; they pay to run the sites; and the only way anyone is going to read any commentary or spin, positive or otherwise, about any individual or issue, on their sites is by making a conscious effort to seek out information by going to those sites.

Williams, on the other hand, used the private real estate owned by others (syndicated print column inches) and paid by for others (subscribers) and the public airwaves owned by all of us to spread propaganda he had been paid to spread.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 2:42 am | #

(and for whomever is planning to invade my state--PA--if you can promise to unseat Sen. Rick Man-on-Dog Santorum, we are willing to accept collateral damage.)

That rat-bastard is at %38 for his reelection numbers. He's dogmeat. I'm on the NY/PA border: dump Santorum, reelect Hillary, piss off the wingnuts. That's my war plan.

I think we'll do it, too.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:44 am | #

BadJim

It was Atrios taking the Media Matters job that was somehow unethical. But I couldn't get any of the trolls who would driveby this charge to make any sense of it.
Carpbasman | 01.15.05 - 2:44 am | #

I doubt either of these guys made claims to impartiality.
WKD | 01.15.05 - 2:44 am | #

On Spanish surnames: the new prime minister of Spain is properly Rodriguez Zapatero; calling him just "Zapatero" is like calling Kos "Zuniga" (I think).
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 2:47 am | #

also, in the top five counties to go for Kerry, one is in TEXAS, another in ALABAMA. yes, you heard that correctly.

Damn straight! Travis County was all about Kerry...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:49 am | #

Thanks, Carpbasman. Yeah, it still doesn't change the point. We read these guys because they're political advocates, after all. Who's asking us if we think we've been misled?

Of course, if it turned out that Black and Drum didn't actually own cats that would be another matter.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 2:50 am | #

it occurs to me that we may actually end up being thankful that this place has so often been such a punch-fest, sometimes even an honest and well meaning, even a productive, punch-fest. it strengthens the immunity, knock on pressboard. Kos appears to be under attack from without and within...very rough on the thin of skin.

this time last year (around the time of my first dropping by here, BTW,) i would totally have disregarded anyone claiming that young Republicans were encouraged to "troll"...i would have chalked up any and all such activity to individual psych cases.

then i got my damn name "stoled" once or twice.

i see things differently these days.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:50 am | #

I guess you all know they're creating this non-story to take attention away from the administration using taxpayer money to push the Bush agenda.

Has it gotten sickening enough how they keep getting away with it? It's perverse.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 2:51 am | #

Get your outrage meter here
BOHICA | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:52 am | #

Or rather, the Bush administration using taxpayer money to pay Armstrong Williams, supposedly an independent journalist or pundit, to push the administration's agenda.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 2:55 am | #

Speaking of sheep
It's time you counted
The time you've mounted.
I don't think the clock is thankful.

Drunken time pieces
Often slur the moments
But even an insult
Can't last forever.

So, account the time.
It's late to pay.
So deep a debt.
For the rest of us.
Travel Candle | 01.15.05 - 2:55 am | #

Incog - what's sickening is that this one is so patently false and easy to refute. But they're not being paid to tell the truth. Even if by now some journo has bothered to even email kos to inquire about it, how many different nationwide airings did it get before then? 10? 20? 50?

I'd love to see kos sue for defamation, because that's what it is.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 2:56 am | #

America's Memory: In fact, speaking of my Unka Carl, perhaps I should get a hold of him to find out where my website is.

It's your dick, dick. Get your own tweezers and scanning electron microscope.

Or just call someone who cares. Or go play in traffic.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 2:58 am | #

Or rather: Or rather, the Bush administration using taxpayer money to pay Armstrong Williams--supposedly an independent journalist or pundit--to push the administration's agenda.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 2:59 am | #

Any FOIA requests gone out on Drudge yet? He posted the Kos story early on but has gone strangely quiet about it, given the rising shitsorm. Curious...

Also, does this mean we can start screaming about Instahack taking money from the wingnut front-organization that runs TechCentralStation?
WendellGee | 01.15.05 - 3:01 am | #

Ô¿Ô

It just proves the heat is ramping up. I am going to stretch a bit, they are buying time and that is all. If I were a republican politician, I would be reining in the Prez, Rove, Cheney and their top tier people. Bush is going to pretty much destroy any Republican's long term plans for keeping his/her office.
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:02 am | #

Incog - what's sickening is that this one is so patently false and easy to refute. But they're not being paid to tell the truth.

They have got to finally be held accountable before they stop. Kos should sue everyone of their sorry asses off.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:02 am | #

Oh and how is String?
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:03 am | #

Or rather: They have got to finally be held accountable before they will ever stop.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:04 am | #

Gee, "Jeffraham", you don't have the address, either? Imagine that - I come in just at the very moment when "watertiger" chooses to leave, when he/she has the key to unlock my Internet memories.

Gosh darnit - all the bad luck.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 3:04 am | #

EkCenTriK: Oh and how is String?

... and is he still playing bass these days?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:04 am | #

I've finally seen the genius of the Bush doctrine. I call it "Kill the Un-free."

If a group of people, for example the Iraqis, are not free, well then we move in and kill them, or at least facilitate their killing. Then, when the smoke has cleared, more people, by percentage, are free than before. Ergo, more freedom.

For example, if their are ten people, and two are "Un-free," then eighty percent of the people are free. Then, BushCo. moves in, and helps kill the two "Un-free" people, and then you've got a one-hundred percent freedom rate. Freedom is on the march!!

Kill the Un-free. It gets results.
Drunkenstein | 01.15.05 - 3:06 am | #

.
CHEER UP!

"Some Amusing News"
.
cosa nostradamus | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:06 am | #

America's Memory

Tell you what, when you ask for that stupid address, I will remind you that people are dying. Which is more important?
EkCenTriK | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:06 am | #

Geeze, AM, still at it.

God you're tenacious.

Your boss must love you.
Carpbasman | 01.15.05 - 3:06 am | #

AM: You have missed the point. By pretending the site isn't yours, it's a given that you will deny it's yours, so nobody gives a fuck. We've decided. You don't figure into the equation on this, at all.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:07 am | #

Wow, a few hours ago bloggers were celebrating the firing of 4 CBS journalists. Now the MSM journalists are celebrating the end of bloggers' credibility.

The New Democrat
Ricky | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:10 am | #

I would just like to point out that we have 2 Armstrongs in this story now, Armstrong Williams and Jerome Armstrong. I have benn getting confused when someone just says Armstrong.
lydia | 01.15.05 - 3:12 am | #

Jim--i think WE ARE the intended audience.

the point is to disrupt any kind of flow of information, any means of communication or organization which can't be easily kept under control.

i am not a much for the history of warfare, but sowing dissention and distrust and confusion in the ranks of one's opponent is, i'm pretty sure, a tactic as old as the hills.

there has been a history here, that whenever something activist or positive gets near critical mass, the attacks come thick as flies.

if people like Atrios & Kos et al, and the forums they provide, were not at least some degree of threat, they would leave us mostly alone (well, except for the one or two home-grown puppy trolls that are always around.)

it isn't that millions (or hell, even thousands--hundreds?) of people congregate HERE, but "here" is a lynchpin, a possible bottle-neck target in the free flow of ideas. lots of people bring things here from all over, and lots of us take those things and toss them along to any number of other people (facts, gossip, ideas...maybe mostly just HOPE.) think about how agressively they used to go after the independent owners of small printing presses...

the confusion forces groups into an either/or mind-set: either we all agree, in nearly lock-step fashion, even if it is not the best choice, or we seem to maybe be trolls. the trick is to avoid BOTH. constructive debate and a plurality of views are healthy.

everyone has their own radar, but for me, if someone only attacks or tears down, but has nothing of their own to offer...well, i'm not saying that makes them some kind of "plant", but it does make me wonder why they hang around.

well, also, after a while, you just get to know how some people normally interact, so you know if they've been "borrowed." writing styles, emails & homepages can be copied along with sigs, but they are just no damn good at copying real people.

it is probably somewhat effective at scaring new folk away, though.

"Who is the intended audience for these smears?"

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:13 am | #

Oh and how is String?
EkCenTriK

I just fed him again and he's crunching away right now. I worry about him getting out. When I come home, he's always at the front door and he's extremely quick and he has an interest in being outside. Sometimes I have packages in my arms and he's hard to shoo away with my feet. He also likes to mimic or follow me so he wants to go out the front door, too. That wouldn't be a problem but for the first couple/few months of his life, he was wild as fuck and of course he still has a wild streak. I fear he may bound out the front door and then freak. He would be impossible to catch if he panics. He's not like a little domesticated kitten that was ever wild.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:19 am | #

I think that world peace is a worthy goal that all peoples can get behind. Otherwise, what would we have? World Wars? I think not!

Anyway, I think that Britney Spears is emblamatic of the can do spunk that we all wish our children had. Would that all our children wre multi-millionaires! And all of our children (the guys to!) should be reminded of Ms. Spears so that they are reminded of what they are capable of.

Oh, and Republicans are mean. But the Democrats can be just as mean to!
Britney has never been to Atrios, I tell you!
Atrios Essay Contest | 01.15.05 - 3:19 am | #

Actually, we don't have two Armstrongs in the story now. We have one, Armstrong Williams, who portrayed himself as an independent pundo-journalist, while all the while pimping for Bush on the taxpayer's dime.

There's another guy named Jerome Armstrong who runs a blog and who did some paid consulting work for Howard Dean, but that was in the open, he didn't pimp for Dean since he shuttered his site while doing the consulting work after informing his readers that he was now in Dean's employ, and Dean didn't pay him with taxpayer funds. Unless it's suddenly become "news" that political candidates hire consultants and pay them with money they have raised from donors for campaigning, or the practice has secretly been declared illegal or unethical, this guy has nothing to do with the story - that would be the one about illegal use of public funds for partisan propaganda.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 3:20 am | #

Librarian, even though you have failed in your informational scientitifical duties to provide your patron with the material he seeks, I must say again that I am blown away at how you've uncovered the conspiracy to take down Eschaton and Dailykos. I can't tell you how good it feels to get that off of my sunken, teenage chest.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 3:20 am | #

bad jim and Wendell--I asked about Zapatero's surname at dKos when he was elected, having learned the "rule" that a man using both names should be called by the first. Turns out it's not a rule but a "rule," and the Hispanics who responded all agreed it was arbitrary, depending on individual preference. Zap prefers his matronym though he includes the patromyn; plainly the matronym is more distinctive. Pablo Ruiz Picasso did the same thing, partially because he preferred Catalan nationalism to Spanish monarchy, and also to avoid confusion with his painter father.

Kos is a bit odd because he reverses the patronym/matronym order in his full name and still takes the matronym. But not that odd--apparently the practice is standard among the Portuguese and not uncommon among Hispanics. It makes especial sense for an American like Kos, since maiden names are often given as middle names here. I know that doesn't clear things up, but the point is that Hispanics have their choice of two surnames and Kos uses Moulitsas.

As for my previous post to Wendell, I had trouble getting Atrios' link and assumed Suellentrop had been calling Kos Zuniga, as I'd seen at other sites, including Pandagon (!?!). I stand by my point that people using Zuniga are following the WSJ, but Suelly himself was mostly correct in his usage (except for the 2 original "Zunida" foul-ups--do it twice and it's not a typo).
Draco | 01.15.05 - 3:22 am | #

I'm a sick fuck, aren't I?

When you read my posts, don't you just hear my voice as a mix of Peter Lorre's child molesting character in "M", and Tony Perkin's character in "Psycho"?

I know I do, and I should...

Because I'm a sick fuck.

..coming mother.
America's Memory Hole | 01.15.05 - 3:30 am | #

I wouldn't go so far as to say that there are paid trolls. I do think that trolls feel like they have a vested interest, for their idiot troll reasons, in the success of this administration and the trolls believe the ends justify the means and that's the low caliber of people they are by the methods they use.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:30 am | #

Thersites--the hope, it seems, is that Casey Jr. will give it a go. he polls WAY better than Santorectum. of course, most folk in PGH and Philly would probably vote for a piece of fuzz or a pebble over Rick Santorum. i have bad feelings that he is a made man in Neo-con land, and if he is not halted in '06, we may see him make a run at the White House. trouble is, word is that Casey does not want to run...i can't say for sure how true that may or may not be, it's just the scuttle.

"That rat-bastard is at %38 for his reelection numbers."

and Mr. Candle, thanks for the poetry. poetry is always appropriate. also, it has been known to literally BORE trolls to DEATH. poetry, or the Worst of Bob Dylan also, pretty much anything that pre-dates 1985 will do in a pinch.

it's late and i'm feeling a little maudlin, and many folks who deserve the praise are not here at the moment (a couple are, though,) so i would like to say that on a couple few occassions, this place has turned nearly transcendental--often in the face of massive troll attack. and it has been an unexpected joy to stumble across it on those days.

they may take our lives, but they'll never take our BAD POETRY.

you know they hate us for our freedoms.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:32 am | #

Librarian, I sincerely doubt that we're the intended audience. The hordes at dKos and Eschaton already know what our hosts are up to, and generally approve. At worst it might incline us to be less generous if & when the next fund-raiser starts.

I further doubt that it will have much effect on potential visitors to weblogs, since if anything it raises their visibility. "An alternative liberal news source? Where?" It might encourage some easy cynicism among those too lazy to hunt up a link, but that's probably not a big problem.

Most likely it's just the usual smokescreen that gets thrown up whenever someone on their side gets caught, like the cloud of ink a squid expels when attacked.

They want the media to conflate Williams and Kos to turn it into the usual "he said/she said" story.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 3:32 am | #

America's Meomory is that brief moment of warm pain you feel when you pass the most pungent of gasses.

And you think to yourself, "Oh, God that is going to stink."

And then the fascinated moment when you realize just how bad it smells.

That's America's Memory
Atrios Essay Contest | 01.15.05 - 3:35 am | #

Britney has never been to Atrios, I tell you!
Atrios Essay Contest

sad, amateurish attempt by a first time troll.

don't worry little guy, I'm sure when you hit puberty, you'll be back, and I am certan you'll do a marginally less horrible job of it next time!

good luck on that puberty thing.
Awww buck up lil' troll dude | 01.15.05 - 3:37 am | #

Don't diss Britney, she is the apex of teen ambtion.

That's why no adult would wish her life on anybody.
Atrios Essay Contest | 01.15.05 - 3:40 am | #

I disagree with the equivalency drawn between a pungent fart and America's Memory.

A pungent fart cannot be ignored.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 3:41 am | #

Jennifer,

What you say is true but it still doesn't mean that I know immediatly which Armstrong a poster is refering to. I merely wanted to alert people that using Armstrong alone now could be confusing.
lydia | 01.15.05 - 3:42 am | #

Jennifer: I disagree with the equivalency drawn between a pungent fart and America's Memory.

A pungent fart cannot be ignored.

But they can both be set alight!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:43 am | #

Librarian:

Santorum will lose, whoever the candidate is. Kerry won PA because we were damn smart and tough at the polls: they tried damn hard to steal PA, but we beat those bastards back. Unions are still strong in PA. The organization has not gone away, and we had the whole motherfucking state WIRED.

They tried to steal PA, but LOST. Specter had to run away from Shrub to win. Never believe for a minute that doesn't make these creeps sweat and whimper.

Doggie-boy is OVER.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:44 am | #

Much thanks, Draco! Make a half-baked assertion, get a healthy serving of information. I love this place.

As it happens I was in Madrid about a month after Zapatero's election (and the train bombings) and at the time the papers seemed to be using both names.

It's kind of neat to have a choice of names.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 3:45 am | #

Jeffraham - true. Similarity ends there though, as only the pungent fart will successfully clear the room.
Jennifer | 01.15.05 - 3:45 am | #

Jennifer: Similarity ends there though, as only the pungent fart will successfully clear the room.

Yeah... even alight, only one will burn with a pure, blue flame, too.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:47 am | #

I disagree with the equivalency drawn between a pungent fart and America's Memory.

A pungent fart cannot be ignored.

You're so witty and original, Jennifer - for a dame, that is.

It's great seeing you again. I've been thinking about that crystal brew daily during our long time apart. If only I could taste a single drop of priceless Dasani.

I beg you to bestow upon me a bottle of it.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 3:47 am | #

EkCenTriK, how are your critters doing?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:48 am | #

OT--Now that the Goldberg-inspired issue of Steve Gilliard's melanin pigmentation has been clarified, does anyone know how SG's last name is pronounced? The profile at his site isn't working. and I've always pronounced it the French way, zheel-YARD. But it might be JILL-yerd or GILL-yerd or other freedom-inspiring un-French variations.
Draco | 01.15.05 - 3:49 am | #

Oh god that's gonna stink...
Atrios Essay Contest | 01.15.05 - 3:53 am | #

But they can both be set alight!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian

We did that one night tripping on acid. This one girl we were with needed to fart and wanted us to set it on fire when it came out. We agreed since it seemed the most logical thing to do at the time. So she pulled her pants down and got on all fours and another friend held his bic lighter to her ass. Sure enough, they do light up but he burned the ring of her asshole and gave her a little blister accidently touching it with the hot metal of the bic holding it lit.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 3:56 am | #

That's quite the story, there.

Ouch!
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 3:58 am | #

Are we discussing farts? I can't sleep. Have to be back at work in 3 hours and I can't sleep.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:00 am | #

Ô¿Ô: We did that one night tripping on acid.

You crazy kids, today, with your acid and farting.

Specking of ACID, has anyone upgraded to ACID Pro 5.0? And how do we like it?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:02 am | #

Er, "Spackling," I mean.

.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:02 am | #

Are we discussing farts? I can't sleep. Have to be back at work in 3 hours and I can't sleep.
Hecate

Sorry to hear that, Hecate. My partner has insomnia, and it's a pain in the ass for her...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:02 am | #

Jim--i think you are right about that, too.

it is a standard Rovian maneuver to cloud the issue, attack a strength, and project your own faults onto the other guys/gals.

but i also think, the more that MSM credibility comes into question in the common discourse, the more people seek alternative sources of information, and they would not want those people to turn up here, be welcome, and feel comfortable.

we can't have them thinking there is anything to learn or do on their own in an active way, can we? can't have the people feeling empowered, not even a little.

but i wonder how many people there really are who watch CNN, are not already involved in any online forum, but might have been inclined to look for one, except that they are helpfully being told that it is all "black ops bloggers"? i have no idea, myself.

but they know that we do watch.

so attacking people like Kos potentially wounds a number of birds with the same stone.

"They want the media to conflate Williams and Kos to turn it into the usual "he said/she said" story."

meanwhile, every time ANY Dem leader sticks their head up above the water line, there seems to be some need to find fault--and we can always find fault, we are good at that. so it is pretty easy to push us in that direction. it turns our own strength against ourselves.

to paraphrase the Father of All Found Poetry: We don't go into the new Legislative Session with the Congress we want, we go in with the Congress we HAVE. might could be a good idea to pick a few folks to support.

we also must continue with the people and structures that we have, which will never be perfect or without fault.

face the music, and dance.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:03 am | #

People call Gilliard "Gilly", which suggests a hard "g".

I'm pretty sure that I knew how it was pronounced at one time, but at the moment I'm back in the fog of uncertainty, which happens all too often.

It was damned odd to find many of his readers expressing surprise that he was black, since he not only makes no secret of it, it's the entire point of many of his posts.

(He's also a bit heavy and has been hospitalized with heart trouble.)

Ah, well, who ever said that liberals weren't colorblind?
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 4:03 am | #

does anyone know how SG's last name is pronounced?

SMITH.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:05 am | #

rorschach,

I usually fall asleep instantly. Tonight, not so much. Too wound up from work. Having stupid, insecure cocounsel is the worst thing in the world....
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:05 am | #

Do I have to inform media of my many outlets? It takes a lots of Depends. And I still leak.
-Liddy Dole
bebe rebozo | 01.15.05 - 4:07 am | #

bad Jim: (He's also a bit heavy and has been hospitalized with heart trouble.)

I think I started reading Steve's newsblog a couple of weeks before he went in the hospital... man, it sounds like it was rough. Anyway, I read here for a long time before I actually started down the list of blogs on Atrios' homepage; Steve's was one of the keepers.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:08 am | #

And, if we're talking about acid, I've never done it, but I'd like to do it someday, I think.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:08 am | #

rorschach,

I usually fall asleep instantly. Tonight, not so much. Too wound up from work. Having stupid, insecure cocounsel is the worst thing in the world....

Ugh. I can imagine.

I hate it when nerves keep me up...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:09 am | #

Speaking of methane, why is the moon Titan all methane and why doesn't it explode? Is it because there is no oxygen?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:12 am | #

And, if we're talking about acid, I've never done it, but I'd like to do it someday, I think.

You definitely should. Just make sure it's clean, and that you have a safe and comfy place to do it.

I've done it more times than I can count, but haven't for a few years...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:12 am | #

Speaking of methane, why is the moon Titan all methane and why doesn't it explode? Is it because there is no oxygen?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:12 am | #

Having stupid, insecure cocounsel is the worst thing in the world

Man, I hate that. I mean, I'm not a lawyer, butb I do have education, experience, expertise, and I hate being saddled with a schmuck.

What do I do? A visualization exercise, to bring me peace.

I visualize whether or not if I jammed a pencil up his nostril, if I would kill him or merely mentally retard him for life.

Detached contemplation of such factors as how sharp the pencil is, the proper angle, wondering whether or not it would help if I grabbed the back of the head and pushed it downwards -- would that maximize the effect?...

Zen and the art of white-collar homicide: I should write a book!
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:15 am | #

If we could get out to the big gas giant planets, we would have all the energy we would ever require. Of course, we would also need oxygen which would be expensive to produce.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:15 am | #

An observation. The "Republican Noise Machine" threw out some trash to get us all talking about something other than who ELSE besides Armstrong Williams was on the take -- AND IT WORKED.

No, it didn't. Not really. There are about a 1000 FOI requests floating around DC right now.

And the FCC is opening an investigation of Williams for "payola" violations. He's in big trouble.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:16 am | #

Hecate,

Not that it will help tonight, but have you tried kava?

It works pretty well for me, and doesn't leave me feeling hung over like valerian.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 4:16 am | #

You definitely should. Just make sure it's clean, and that you have a safe and comfy place to do it.

Did you get to read about my bad acid experience?
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:16 am | #

I visualize whether or not if I jammed a pencil up his nostril, if I would kill him or merely mentally retard him for life.

That made me laugh. You couldn't retard this guy any more than he already is, but killing would be good. Course, you'd then have to throw away a perfectly good pencil...
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:17 am | #

Our plants and green algae fart and make oxygen.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:18 am | #

Thersites, you are SO great. Thank the Lord that you're here to share that greatness with us.

Amen!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 4:18 am | #

Thersites--your words to the Goddess's ear!

"Doggie-boy is OVER."

he certainly got a round booing in these parts when his name was brought up at the Kerry rallies over the summer...even out in the Fundie lands 'round Greensburg.

and you ain't lyin' 'bout the trouble we had with voting in some places. i was kind of proud of us, actually. and you know we threw out HALF of the Provisional Ballots cast, statewide. how many more of those do you think were for Kerry?

but this race will be an all out from the Republican side--money, people on the ground, you name it. they will NOT want to lose that bastard. the sooner we have a strong candidate the better i will feel--i honestly do not care WHO they put up, they'll be getting my window/yard space, my money and my efforts (such as they are.) anyone need a copy of "Bob Roberts" to get in the mood? Barnes & Nobles has 'em cheap. worth it, just for the fake songs.

and good morning Hecate. i haven't slept properly myself since 11/2. and since yesterday the temps here have gone from 70 (one degree short of the all time record,) to under 20, with a massive shift in barometer, and so my head feels like someone is trying to inflate the Zeppellin inside my sinus cavity. if i take any more hot showers for the steam, i'm going to risk par-boiling myself. but at least i don't have to work tomorrow--i feel sorry for you. that absolutely sucks.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:18 am | #

If we could get out to the big gas giant planets, we would have all the energy we would ever require.

I'm as gung-ho about slowly boiling Limbaugh in vegetable oil as anyone, but I think you're being overly optimistic.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:18 am | #

CS,

I haven't tried kava. My problem always is that I think I WiLL get to sleep so I don't take, for example, the Valerian I've got. Then, when I realize I'm not going to be able to get to sleep, it's too late to take anything and still get up in time. I should have known to take something.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:20 am | #

Zen and the art of white-collar homicide: I should write a book!
Thersites

Can I collaborate with you? While putting together my smiting list I came up with all kinds of ingenious ways to kill fuckheads.

Also, what you're saying about local politics in your area is spot-on. And that's exactly why they're trying to derail Dean.

While everyone else was farting around this election season, Dean and Democracy for America worked on local races- and they won a bunch of them.

Believe me, that kind of approach terrifies the wingers.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:20 am | #

A visualization exercise, to bring me peace.

I visualize whether or not if I jammed a pencil up his nostril, if I would kill him or merely mentally retard him for life.

Detached contemplation of such factors as how sharp the pencil is, the proper angle, wondering whether or not it would help if I grabbed the back of the head and pushed it downwards -- would that maximize the effect?...

Zen and the art of white-collar homicide: I should write a book!
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:15 am | #

Yours is a strange, but appealing, Enlightenment.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:21 am | #

One of the first "accomplishment" of the repugs in their takeover of our government and now voting systems is the lie that "balance" in journalism is the zenith of objectivity. Of course, journalists paved the way for this years ago by creating the lie that there was this professional code of conduct across all mainstream media where objectivity ruled supreme.

This merely got twisted into balance -- if you present something negative about chimpy, you've got to slander someone else too. Truth became the casualty, but IMHO, this was by design. Could it be that the so-called memogate is the ultimate example of this?

No one can prove the memo was false -- many of the "proofs" that is was were total fabrications -- tinfoil hat stuff. The woman who was in a position to have written that memo proclaimed it not to be her's, but the content was basically true. Chimpy did get preferencial treatment and, based on best evidence, was AWOL.

Was it in the name of "balance" the the story got legs and the swifties dominated the media for weeks? Of course the media did not proclaim this -- but the public has been conditioned to expect a tit-for-tat on these things now. I believe this expectation that bad news about repugs means there needs to be bad news about dems regardless of the merits of each accusation or the weight of the transgression is what made this all popular.

Its clever propaganda -- but we are no longer a democracy when voters are so ill-informed (that is being polite) and the media promotes a particular political agenda.
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 4:21 am | #

Librarian, dear. I must say I am disappointed at your inability to find "my" website for me.

So, if I could make a consolation request, that would be great. Please try to make your posts longer, more self-absorbed, and more paranoid. They're far too terse, objective, and sane right now.

Thanks so much, lambchop!
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 4:22 am | #

but this race will be an all out from the Republican side--money, people on the ground, you name it. they will NOT want to lose that bastard. the sooner we have a strong candidate the better i will feel--i honestly do not care WHO they put up, they'll be getting my window/yard space, my money and my efforts (such as they are.)

I know. I want a candidate too. But I don't think they can steal it, if we even half the operation we did in November. I was working around Scranton, through my union, mostly. And we were GOOD.

I'm actually from NY, just over the border. But taking down Santorum... hell yeah, I want in on that.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:23 am | #

Did you get to read about my bad acid experience?

No. I did acid once at a Ted Nugent concert. (it was the 70's, give me a break) For some reason that was no problem.

I did mushrooms at a small party about a month later and totally flipped out.

So ya never know.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:23 am | #

Incog--You need both heat and oxygen to blow up Titan, and all the light spectrum readings ot T have long shown a minimum of that gas. It's also, according to the BBC today, -180C on Titan, which is pretty damn cold even in F. That methane (promounced "MEE-thane on the Beeb) lake is especially intriguing because it looks like some rock-strewn desert oasis, or at worst some Dead Sea-like salt lake. It's only when you think about how cold and oxygen-free the place is, alaong with the liquid methane, that you realize how strange (but recognizable) the place is
Draco | 01.15.05 - 4:24 am | #

No, it didn't. Not really. There are about a 1000 FOI requests floating around DC right now.

And the FCC is opening an investigation of Williams for "payola" violations. He's in big trouble.
fourlegsgood

I don't have any hope, anymore. Not after all this time and not one single outrage out of thousands they've done has ever stuck to them.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:25 am | #

Here's my thought about folks like Novak telling us how bad Dean would be for the Democratic party. If you were playing a game of touch football and the QB from the other side came over and told you that he didn't thin you should pick Bob for a QB, you'd laugh. You know he is trying to make you lose, and you'd go ahead and pick Bob. Now, imagine it's not a football game, but control of the most powerful country and economy in the world. The other side sends over Novak to say, "You shouldn't pick Dean to head your party." Why would anyone listen to that advice?????
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:29 am | #

Shorter America's Memory:

"my" website,
"my" website,
"my" website,
"my" website,
"my" website,
me
me
me
me
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:29 am | #

Ô¿Ô, well, me neither. But his violation is a clear-cut one in terms of the law.

Just how clear-cut is revealed by the fact that pussy-boy Powell and his minions are even investigating.

BTW, I know it's gotten fashionable to bash Kerry, but let's not.

The fact of the matter is that half of the american public are out of their fucking minds. Why else would they vote for that sorry sack of chimp slime?
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:29 am | #

Shrooms have (almost) always been good to me. Acid, well.... It's been a mixed bag. I haven't done Acid in 20 some years, and probably won't do it again. Too damned unpredictable.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 4:30 am | #

While everyone else was farting around this election season, Dean and Democracy for America worked on local races- and they won a bunch of them.

Oh yeah. I had a weird 11/2. I got back from PA, ate, and we were watching the national returns, which were alarming. But then our local station goes to our Assembly candidate's headquarters... and she has beaten this absolute goddamn bastard! Honestly, I had worked for that, but had not really expected it to work. And then it was one local race after another, going our way.

NY is like anywhere else: incumbents do not lose. But we whipped 'em, and we almost won our State Senate race, even though our candidate was a sacrificial lamb.

As soon as you get these weasels face to face, they ain't shit.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:31 am | #

Michael Powell's FCC is investigating Armstrong Williams? What, did he flash a boob?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:31 am | #

The other side sends over Novak to say, "You shouldn't pick Dean to head your party." Why would anyone listen to that advice?????

Nobody sane would. Like I said, they're worried about Dean working to defeat them on the local level. They want to derail him.

Fuck Novakula and his chiclet teeth.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:31 am | #

Jim, i think i meant to add (as if i am not WORDY enough already,)

"The hordes at dKos and Eschaton already know what our hosts are up to, and generally approve. At worst it might incline us to be less generous if & when the next fund-raiser starts."

that if any new people DID turn up, not to mention the silent readers which you never know how many of those are around, and everyone was tightly circled into firing position on each other (or on the host,) it would turn off those potential additional participants. that's another reason why it may be worth it for them to target such places.

(and i do not recommend that anyone try acid for the first time without an experienced and trusted sitter on hand.)

and please let fourlegs be right:

"No, it didn't. Not really. There are about a 1000 FOI requests floating around DC right now."

i hope everyone crossed their "t"'s and dotted their "i"'s...

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:32 am | #

I'm sorry but I'm just so damn cynical now.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:34 am | #

Michael Powell's FCC is investigating Armstrong Williams? What, did he flash a boob?

Oh my fucking god, what a horrible mental picture. Please, no, for the love of god NOOOOOOOO!!!

No, broadcasters are required to disclose if they're being paid for their opinion, there's even a place on the FCC forms to do it.

It dates back to the 60's and the payola scandals when radio-jocks used to extort artists and record companies to "pay for play."

He's kind of fucked, methinks.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:35 am | #

Thersites,

What did you guys do locally to pull that off? It sounds great.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:36 am | #

i hope everyone crossed their "t"'s and dotted their "i"'s...

These wankers are so fucking arrogant I'd bet good money there are other arrangements out there.

They thought they'd never be caught. Hell, if you call the social security line when you're on hold there's a voice spouting bushist propoganda. (I believe I saw that on TPM)

None of this is new.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:38 am | #

If you looked up 'cynical' in the dictionary, the picture beside it would be: Ô¿Ô
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:38 am | #

Librarian,

FOIA requests aren't that technical. The agency can jerk you around for a while and make you wait, but the law is pretty clear cut. And the district courts are pretty good about making the govt. put up or shut up. So it may take time, but eventually the info should come out.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:39 am | #

When chimpy refers to "spending political capital," is he really refering to taking advantage of the lying liars in our media to manipulate the public into supporting his neocon agenda! The flood of lies coming out of this adminstration are only possible because the media refuses to tell the public the facts.

Of course it would not be "fair and balanced" to tell the public the truth about the bush lies -- there just isn't that much dishonesty on the other side to provide balance. This manufactured crisis over Social Security proves that they know the media is in their pocket.

Defending the status quo on health care is going to become difficult and after the repugs push through their tort reform as a solution to the crisis, they are going to need something to distract the public from the fact that this was never the problem in the first place. This is going to take a ton of lies to pull-off, but most won't get reported because you simply cannot find enough on the other side to "balance" it.

Certainly, no one that cannot afford coverage or care now is going to be able to after "tort-reform." But this is chimpy's bizarro world -- up is down and don't look at the king!

Wouldn't it be great to be able to proclaim to the public that Social Security was privatized -- we can't possibly move towards a single-payer, government health care program now (so we will be told). If the people can be convinced that the investment crowd that promoted the Enron business model will now make us all rich (only a few years ago folks) -- the sheeple will not figure this con out for decades.

Oh, and better times will always be just around the corner. Remember, privatization "fixed" the crisis -- don't worry, your retirement investment is a "long-term" thing... OH LOOK!!! THERE'S OSAMA BIN LADEN!!!!
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 4:39 am | #

Billmon and Gilliard got started on dKos, struck out on their own.

Methane burns here because our atmosphere has free oxygen. Take an oxygen tank to Titan if you need a blowtorch.

We eldritch boomers will crucify the Republicans if they renege on the Treasury bonds in the Social Security trust fund - that is, if our Asian creditors haven't already spitted us and eaten our innards.

I'm not sure I could suggest acid in an age that lacks Hendrix, Garcia and half the Beatles. Not to say that I couldn't make do with Beethoven and Schumann, but I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 4:40 am | #

I'm gonna say it for the umpteenth time:

I hate Zephyr Teachout.

With friends like her...

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 4:41 am | #

Hecate, you still up?

Here's a trick that always works for me.

You lay in bed on your back and try to relax your body one body part at a time.

Start with your feet, then your ankles, calves, etc. etc. By the time you get to your shoulders you should be pretty relaxed.

It's kind of a new-agey type of thing I read about years ago. I can also get rid of a headache by making my hands warm (with my mind), but I'll save that trick for another time.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:41 am | #

Wow.

Couldn't sleep.

Actual stuff happens here at 4.30am (ET)

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 4:43 am | #

We eldritch boomers will crucify the Republicans if they renege on the Treasury bonds in the Social Security trust fund - that is, if our Asian creditors haven't already spitted us and eaten our innards.

I trust you mean literally crucify- cause I know I certainly do.

I agree with you on the acid. It can't possibly be fun these days- everyone is too uptight. Back then everything was about loud rock, sex and getting high. Not necessarily in that order.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:44 am | #

What did you guys do locally to pull that off? It sounds great.

Went door to door. Phone calls. Yard signs. The usual stuff: only, with a lot more volunteers, including me, than ever before.

Honestly, a lot was Kerry coattails. Or if not Kerry, Bush has made voting GOP pretty toxic.

And part of it was the local party was smart about local politics, including a local environmental problem, and the continuing failure of the NY lege to pass a budget, which can be hung very easily on Pataki, who is toast.
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:45 am | #

4LG,

I'm going to go to bed and try it. Tomorrow's going to come way too soon.

Night all you princes & princesses of Eschaton.
Hecate | 01.15.05 - 4:45 am | #

incog, you're right to be cynical- here in the south I think people are too far gone. Fuck, lot's of them believe jeebus will be here momentarily and the earth is 6,000 years old.

But I think the local approach is a good start in other places. Throw the fuckers out every chance we get. I don't care if the race is for county dog catcher- no rethugs.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:47 am | #

Incog sez:

Michael Powell's FCC is investigating Armstrong Williams? What, did he flash a boob?

No.

Apprently Micheal Powell was enough.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 4:47 am | #

Start with your feet, then your ankles, calves, etc. etc. By the time you get to your shoulders you should be pretty relaxed.

man, that must be time consuming when you have four legs...

I'm off to slumberland too. Slainte!
Thersites | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:48 am | #

Good luck Hecate.

Am, still mumbling to himself in the corner.

What an asshat.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:48 am | #

I'm not sure I could suggest acid in an age that lacks Hendrix, Garcia and half the Beatles. Not to say that I couldn't make do with Beethoven and Schumann, but I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.

First time I tripped (oh so long ago) I made a point of listening to Vivaldi's The Four Seasons.

Absolutely amazing.
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:50 am | #

Methane burns here because our atmosphere has free oxygen. Take an oxygen tank to Titan if you need a blowtorch.

From the first pictures returning from the probe, scientists on the project think that there was rain on Titan today, albeit methane rain. They also believe Titan has a hydrological cycle and weathering like we have here on Earth.

They may just be giddy from all the data coming in, though.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:50 am | #

I am telling you guys, you are pushing this story more than them. Have you not learned anything from the swift boat liars? Complain about Armstrong Williams to the FCC fccinfo@fcc.gov
not wes

You notice this one too? I want to be careful not to sound critical of the "community" here -- the regulars and most visitors post thoughtful, well-reasoned comments (the trolls, not really huge in absolute numbers, post large volumes of crap).

Your point is well taken - we could focus on what is actually happening and talk about ways to take action, like you have. I believe change will not happen unless we hit some of the "big-boys" in their pocket books - but that type of talk seems all but banned here.

Changing consumer patterns shouldn't be that hard -- must be some things we can do without. History shows it works if people have the resolve to make it happen. Just my humble opinion, maybe I got that wrong, just saying...
mr bill | 01.15.05 - 4:50 am | #

Zephyr Teachout????

Zephyr n.
The west wind. a. A gentle breeze.
Something that is airy, insubstantial, or passing.

Like a "blast" from the past seeing the name "Zephyr" Teachout reminds me of the The Great Contest between Lord Windesmere of Whopping Foghole, England and the challenger Boomer (Google windesmere, contest for details without necessarily having to listen to the whole contest).

It hilariously describes the efforts of Boomer positioned hands on a pole in the middle of "boxing" ring breaking wind to unseat the champion with a stylish and strategically placed zephyr window.

The Spirit of Howard Beale | 01.15.05 - 4:50 am | #

man, that must be time consuming when you have four legs...

Actually no, I do all four at once- which makes me sleepy quicker.

It's the laying on the back thing that's a bitch.

Bonne nuit mon amies!
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:51 am | #

I believe change will not happen unless we hit some of the "big-boys" in their pocket books - but that type of talk seems all but banned here.

Not at all. I'm a huge proponent of buying local and paying cash only. I also don't support asshats and I make sure they understand why I don't buy from them.

If everyone did it they'd be hurting.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:53 am | #

I agree with you on the acid. It can't possibly be fun these days- everyone is too uptight. Back then everything was about loud rock, sex and getting high. Not necessarily in that order.
fourlegsgood

Ah, c'mon, fourlegsgood--there's a few folks here I think would make good trip companions...
rorschach | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:53 am | #

rorschach--"shorter" is pretty much spot on (wonder if there is some kind of tasty cookie action going on when you get there?) i am *almost* tempted to reprise my most inappropriate eschaton moment perhaps ever, and post several pages worth of House floor testimony uncut...i knew it was wrong when i did it, but i just couldn't help myself (it took me like 5 posts in a row to do it, to--thankfully not too many real people were around. BOY was that rude of me.)

Thersites--i had a bad feeling that morning, from around 10AM on. i worked that night on the desk, and my intern, bless his hopeful little soul, just kept saying "oh no, don't worry, you'll see, it'll all be good." but we had so many problems with the lines and the machines and the "challengers" and running out of ballots on campus...and i knew it could not be just us that had that shit going down. and i kept getting messages from poll-watching friends around town...

no misunderestimating in '06, i guess that's all i'm saying. precinct level is where it has to be at--and it has to be led by locals. if we were old enough to have worked down south in the 50's & 60's, i guess we would have already known that!

Dean, indeed. i agree.

-L.
Librarian | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 4:53 am | #

G'night Hecate.

Fourlegs,

I learned years ago how to adjust my body temperature in my extremities. To this day I can create as much as ten degrees temperature difference between my left and right hands.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 4:54 am | #

They may just be giddy from all the data coming in, though.

I know I am. I love this stuff. I can watch NASA channel for days.

Unfortunately I don't get it here anymore.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 4:55 am | #

Confessional mode: I did acid dozens of times while I was a student at Berkeley and for several years thereafter. I got good grades in a difficult subject, I did well in my professional career, and I made an indecent amount of money as a businessman.

Now that I'm prematurely retired, I've got one observation and another question. The observation is that acid isn't particularly threatening to life or mind. The question is, where can I get some? (Don't answer; I've got a nice glass of Rhone wine, a pipe and Mozart on the radio.)
bad Jim | 01.15.05 - 4:55 am | #

I have to be up for work in 16 hours.
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:56 am | #

Trying to catch-up.

So to Slate

If Moulitsas takes money from political candidates in 2006 and 2008 without telling you who's paying him, stop giving his recommended candidates your dollars. Here's what Moulitsas wrote about payola pundit Armstrong Williams' assertion that "There are others" on the government dole: "Until names are named, we can assume every conservative pundit is on the White House's payola rolls." That's questionable logic, but let's take Moulitsas up on his challenge: Until names are named, we can.

See, Suellentrop is being fair.

And what more can we ask of the SCLM but be fair.

.
spork_incident | 01.15.05 - 4:56 am | #

Bon voyage and fromage your merde!
America's Memory

Must you always be a horse's ass?
Ô¿Ô | 01.15.05 - 4:58 am | #

I learned years ago how to adjust my body temperature in my extremities. To this day I can create as much as ten degrees temperature difference between my left and right hands.

Cool. Now I know I'm not the only freak around.

It's just simple bio-feedback. I've never measured the temperature difference but it's noticeable. I've never tried to do my feet.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 5:00 am | #

Not at all. I'm a huge proponent of buying local and paying cash only. I also don't support asshats and I make sure they understand why I don't buy from them.

Good for you, brother! Now tell me the chain of local, progressive companies you employ to get your data to and from the Haloscan servers, as I'm looking for an ethically pure means of using the Internet as well.

Guide me. Please.
America's Memory | 01.15.05 - 5:00 am | #

Geez, AM is hanging onto every little scrap of hope that it can get something started here tonight.

P.S.

AM, don't bother responding bitch, 'cause I'm not gonna stick around to hear your lameass response.

Everyone else, goodnight.
Central Scrutinizer | 01.15.05 - 5:00 am | #

rorschach, I'm sure there are, I just wouldn't be any fun.

bad jim, hey, we all have our pasts, eh? I'll still never do mushrooms again.
fourlegsgood | 01.15.05 - 5:03 am | #