I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Huygens!!!
woowoo!
It seems a nuanced balance... you have to push back but at the same time you have to steer the topic back to the subject ("It's about Armstrong Williams, stupid!!!") rather than simply play defense ("lefty bloggers did NOT do the same thing as Armstrong Williams!" "did so!" "did not!" etc).
Who are the "brilliant women with the most clever minds for pop culture" who "force themselves to act stoopid for the sake of convincing themselves of the infallibility of recent foreign policy."???
Brittany Spears??
remember that when the wanker-wing bloggers make these crazy, factless allegations, the point is not that they think they are right but rather to change the subject.
So what's the solution?
What has this got to do with John Kerry shooting himself in the foot to get all those medals, just to throw them all over the fence at the White House during a communist rally that he led?
Huh?
It seems as though the old "debate" rules no longer apply. There is a lot of fumbling about to find the winning argument for "debate" among nonscholars.
At present the GOP conservatives are winning. The analysis of what they are doing is incomplete and it is not just one thing that they do.
Can't we dig some links between right wing bloggers and the rethug party? Let them answer the accusations for a change?
warbloggers don't care.
in fasct he should've included "journalists."
So what's the solution?
Carl Nyberg | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 8:27 pm | #
There is no "answer". The country is going down the tubes. We are marching towards fascism as too many people are either ignorant, apathetic, greedy or liars or a combination.
We are Germany in the early years of Hitler. The only thing missing is the internal violence and massive economic crash. I wouldn't be surprised with either of those two things cranking up anytime, either.
The US is like a stone-alcoholic. It has to bottom out before it begins to recover.
if you don't push back they're just emboldened the next time
Amen. Mein Kampf, Book Two, Chapter XV (The Right of Emergency Defense):
A shrewd victor will, if possible, always present his demands to the vanquished in installments. And then, with a nation that has lost its character-and this is the case of every one which voluntarily submits-he can be sure that it will not regard one more of these individual oppressions as an adequate reason for taking up arms again. 'The more extortions are willingly accepted in this way, the more unjustified it strikes people finally to take up the defensive against a new, apparently isolated, though constantly recurring, oppression, especially when, all in all, so much more and greater misfortune has already been borne in patient silence.
It's a game of divert and distract. That's why I agree with renato. You don't just say "No they didn't." You MUST say EVERY time "Armstrong Williams hid the fact that he was being paid by the government, using taxpayers' money, to promote a Bush administration program."
And they'll still come back with "At least OUR guy didn't sleep with little boys while he was governor."
The only good thing that has come from all this is the realization that two or three years ago, all this crap would have been accepted as fact. Thank God for this community and the others like it that expose the lies for what they are.
Within the first five comments, some dipshit loser will simply respond "oh, I suppose you'd rather have the army run by a guy who raped a retard in 'Nam, wouldn't you?"
What has this got to do with John Kerry shooting himself in the foot to get all those medals, just to throw them all over the fence at the White House during a communist rally that he led?
Huh?
ManhattanDan
Well, inside 7 comments, anyway.
Amen. Mein Kampf, Book Two, Chapter XV (The Right of Emergency Defense):
So Dubya *does* read books!
I really think it's time for a few people on the left to say 'fuckit' and embrace lying, smearing and figuratively nuking the turd volcano of the right.
Also, I think that American political discourse is beyond redemption, and I don't want any part of it any more, even as a foreign observer.
The fact that they can make these charges against kos--baseless or not--points up the importance of the rule about Caesar's wife being above reproach. While many people in the news business have made some fairly pronounced ethical lapses, most media organizations have some ethical rules. For example, knowing what I knew then about certain companies, I could have invested in a few certain companies a few years back and probably made a lotta lotta money. But, in fact, what I reported on directly influenced their share prices, so I knew it was ethically wrong.
I don't know the facts about kos' relationship with Dean, but I do know this: You really have to be cautious when you do things like that. It just doesn't look good, even if you're transparent. The difference between the MSM and the right-wing media is that the RWM has been in the tank for years--even Grover Norquist will admit it--and the MSM has tried to develop and enforce rules within their own organizations, even occasionally firing people over it.
Is there a need for a Bloggers' code of ethics? Something to think about.
Well, okay, Karl Rove actually reads them. He just gives George the pop-up version...
You want a bullshit blog from a bullshit company peddling bullshit? Do ya?
(Sorry, angry as hell this evening.)
Dig this shit, man.
http://www.realquixtarblog.com
Yeah, man, it's fucking Amway. An Amway blog by a fucking Amway employee...
Or is it?
Go to the link on the side: "About REAL Quixtar Blog" and see how much bullshit it is.
Yeah, I know this is OT, but it's symptomatic of the bullshit.
(Kinda sorry for the profanity. See ya in Church tomorrow morning.)
So Dubya *does* read books!
No, but Karl Rove, Dark Lord of the Sith, does.
AUURGH, Fuckin Haloscan!!!
Listen folks, NOW is the time to fight back, on e3 every point. As persistant LOUD and dirty as we possibly can. We've got the time RIGHT NOW to change people's point of view. Not in October of 2006 or 2008, for Christ's sake.
Hit them really really hard every time they run a crossing pattern in your zone. Make em think about it and by the fourth quarter they'll look for the hit rather than the ball.
What the hell am I doing here? I should be drinking beer and watching football.
remember that when the wanker-wing bloggers make these crazy, factless allegations, the point is not that they think they are right but rather to change the subject.
I wouldn't mind so much if it was only bloggers. Cf. Novak and Begala.
So Dubya *does* read books!
He has the Classic Comics version.
Well, okay, Karl Rove actually reads them. He just gives George the pop-up version...
GMTA.
It seems like so many lies are coming at you so fast, you can't finish pushing back on the first one before another is out there and they've changed the thrust of the first to dilute the strength of your argument.
A big feature of Bush's Brain and Boy Genius was Rove trying to turn Bush on to the latest book he'd read and Bush always like rolling his eyes. Rove had shelves specially made for all his books.
What the hell is happening here? Armstrong Williams took a quarter of a million of our tax paid dollars to perpetuate Bush's Bull Shit. How did things, once again, get turned around? Does nothing stick to that Bastard Bush? Hey sling the speghetti against the wall, and something is bound to stick. When are we going to do what the Bush people do? Ignore it all!!!!!!!!
Karl Rove, Dark Lord of the Sith, does.
NTodd
Ahh, but they always come in pairs.
Who's the padwan?
It's classic Repug bait and switch. They do it all the time. Just keep firing back - how many rightwing bloggers are being paid under the table? Kos and Jerome were upfront. How many rightwing commentators are getting payola? Kos and Jerome were openly employed. Who exactly is being paid to blog the administration's propaganda?
And so on and so forth.
I really think that letting this just sit there would be a terrible mistake. That would send the right into a whole round of triumphalist and self-congratulatory bullshit. You can't win by trying to be above it all. That just isn't working.
i love it when he gets angry 
N Todd, did you see the game, Steelers won. My God is better than yours. (Just kidding)
get a grip folks...we're (no insult intended) a fairly small crowd of lefty readers here...of course, with a few lonely sticky-fingered trolls thrown in for verisimilitude.
anyway, talk, kibitz, rif...let freedom ring-a-ling. know damn straight the bigs of both sides pay interns to scan these threads and condense them for the busy power big...and, because of this they can lay a few occasional traps or build a few breakers to slow the swelling tide but these mean little or nothing in the long run. don't get lost in satan's big/little lies and mindfucks...keep pumping out truth as you see it...revolution begins with a single step and we're well into a long march. the old powers are a panicked thug with an unseen knife wound...still packin some ugly life but the wound shows there just walking dead. truth to power, truth to fear, truth to lies...simple clean beautiful scary truth.
Listen folks, NOW is the time to fight back, on e3 every point. As persistant LOUD and dirty as we possibly can. We've got the time RIGHT NOW to change people's point of view. Not in October of 2006 or 2008, for Christ's sake.
Hit them really really hard every time they run a crossing pattern in your zone. Make em think about it and by the fourth quarter they'll look for the hit rather than the ball.
What Art Vandelay said.
Karl Rove, Dark Lord of the Sith, does.
NTodd
Ahh, but they always come in pairs.
Who's the padwan?
I think that will be revealed when the next movie comes out in 2008.
Stand back, I'm gonna blow a perfectly good (heh, and expensive) dinner.
I can't imagine why a person would want to just let this kind of underhanded tactic slide. There is nothing innocent about the way this Dean payola fakery made the rounds.
Oh Christ, Atrios, didn't I tell you this, to the side, six months ago? You have got to simply own your own site, your own situation and your own comments. Otherwise, some turkey inevitably turns up and accuses you or your ilk of something dreadful.
You're out in the real world now where people are ugly and nasty and brutish and quite likely short. You want to talk without some idiot deciding you're a wanker? You have to be on your own. That's the whole point behind the web btw - THAT'S WHY THE HELL WE MADE IT BE THIS WAY.
So do it. Quit going the other direction. Freedom is a good thing. The cost of a slot in your local serve'r'stor' is about $60/quarter.
N Todd, did you see the game, Steelers won. My God is better than yours. (Just kidding)
Your God blows chunks. I guess I need to just pray harder or something. 
"The right-wing blogosphere has removed itself from any realm of rational discourse"
uh-huh. And the left-wing blogosphere has taken to calling anyone who raises their ire a "wanker".
"If some liberal said something, they're either a hypocrite, a liar, or a traitor."
"atrios" repeatedly, explicitly and stridently calls all sorts of people hypocrites, liars and traitors.
The response needs to be high profile.
It can not be a lawsuit or investigation that drags out months. It has to be a well prepared big name that lays it out with derision/sarcasm not anger (a la Gore). A response that cuts to the bone.
I love hat. Whenever he comes around I'm reminded that the conservative movement is just too fundamentally stupid to sustain itself.
""atrios" repeatedly, explicitly and stridently calls all sorts of people hypocrites, liars and traitors.
hat"
Yeah, because you are. Screw you. Go away. You are vile and no one will ever ask you out or even to tag along at the drive-in.
Go away.
uh-huh. And the left-wing blogosphere has taken to calling anyone who raises their ire a "wanker".
Act like a wanker, get called a wanker. Wanker. And liar.
hat,
You drunk, man?
Good diary entry on Kos:
JournalGate - Can the WSJ survive?
"CBS News made their mistake with the publication of what were apparently faux memos about President (W) Bush's AWOL activity while in the Texas Air National Guard. Subsequent investigations and scrutiny of the story indicate that CBS News staffers were a little overzealous and went to press with the story too quickly. Folks were fired.
Now, I'm afraid for the WSJ. Are they in the same boat, and how might they salvage their credibility?
It looks like the WSJ latched onto an erroneous blog entry, had some staff perform some research that wasn't utilized correctly and then went to press with what looks like a pretty pourous story.
I'm getting CBS flashbacks.
Do you think that the WSJ can survive? Are they going to have to jettison some editors or writers to weather this storm? Or is there another possiblity in the offing?
Let's talk about the fallout for the WSJ, and try to figure out, no matter how bleak it looks, how they might be able to salvage their credibility. "
We can't just let this go. If you have any doubt about what the Right is up to, just think about those bastards who called themselves Swiftboats for Truth."
Kerry should gone after them the minute they opened their lying mouths, but he didn't and the rest is, as they say, history.
If we want to stop this crap, we have to fight back fast and hard.
so what the ever fucking fuck is wrong with the improbably named zephyr teachout anyway?
what's her motive in all this?
who's paying her to make up these lies?
On this and the previous thread, there have been numerous mentions of irrationality and criminal insanity. So I'm reposting something I wrote before near the end of another thread (football, an underpants video and the history of Pastabagel were the dominant topics, so nobody took mush interest in this post).
Here it is:
Over at Smirking Chimp, there's a long article called "The Madness of GWB" by Paul Levy, identified as a Jungian psychologist and Tibetan Buddhist. He's assigned himself the task of naming the illness affecting W and about half the nation. The name is "malignant egophrenia," which he takes some pains to explain in medium-thick Jungian jargon. A recurring theme of the article is that ME is widespread, with W just an important focal point. The article includes a section comparing epidemics of ME under W to Hitler, which he does with a straight face and no apology. Here's a sample:
"At the root of Bush’s process is an unwillingness and seeming inability to experience his own sense of sin, guilt and shame, as if he is afraid of being exposed, of being found out. He’s clearly unable to feel any remorse and experience his own weakness and vulnerability, his own sense of failure. This threatens his narcissism too much. One aspect of Bush’s pathology is ‘malignant narcissism,’ as he reacts sadistically to others who mirror back his guilt and don’t support and enable his narcissism."
You can't win by trying to be above it all. That just isn't working.
Boy, howdy, you said a mouthful there. The GOP has dirtied up all hope of rising above their swamp. I think its past time to give them some payback. Dean seems willing to do that, so now we know why he's under attack.
"so what the ever fucking fuck is wrong with the improbably named zephyr teachout anyway?"
Somethings up with both Teachout and Trippi. Why are they out to destroy Dean?
Bush Anything But Moronic, According to Author
link in homepage
The old powers are a panicked thug with an unseen knife wound...still packin some ugly life but the wound shows they're just walking dead. Truth to power, truth to fear, truth to lies...simple clean beautiful scary truth.
Sean, you rock!
Jeb's my bet- if they don't figure a way to give Bu$hie bunnypants a third term as Dear Leader.
But back on topic: in any rational universe, August would be right on.
Kos's role in Dean's campaign wasn't funded by taxpayer $$, and was open from the start.
There is no way to argue with the wingnuts. We should all know rational discourse is the last thing they care about. Every time we waste time screaming back over their diversion du jour, we lose some valuable opportunity to press our attack.
But- it's not a rational human universe anymore.
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Whenever I see hat posting here I think of a little tiny fez, worn by a dancing monkey. A shit-flinging, rhumey-eyed malignant monkey.
There goes everyone, chasing the soccer ball again...
I love hat. Whenever he comes around I'm reminded that the conservative movement is just too fundamentally stupid to sustain itself.
dude. this was a brand-new keyboard.
See you guys later, or in the morning.
be nice.
soccer ball! soccer ball!
tena,
we're always nice.
except when we're not.
Aw,c'mon guys,leave hat alone.
Compared to some of the sociopaths who troll us, he's positively cuddly.
Ooooo! What a cute,little troll! Who's a cute,little troll? Who's a cute,little troll? Dnace for us some more and you can have a cookie, little troll!
Tena:
I think it's time for Instafuckwit and his ilk to prove that they haven't been getting taxpayer funds over the past couple of years.
What do you mean, Perfesser, you can't prove a negative? So the fuck what? I want your tax returns and bank statements since 2002 up on your fucking site by next week, or we get to talk about how much GOP coin you may, or may not have been earning in your paid time as an employee at a state university.
I said this on a thread lower down, but I just wanted to say it again. Let's focus first on Armstrong, and then defend the bloggers.
And when attacking the Armstrong business, we should all use the potent phrase "with our tax dollars." As in, "They were paying him to produce propaganda with our tax dollars! And they didn't tell us they were pushing this propaganda with our tax dollars! What else are they using our tax dollars for?"
This is the phrase that seems to resonate with the repub's and their supporters, so let's turn it around on them.
Now, what was that about bloggers again? Did it have anything to do with our tax dollars? No? Then why are we talking about it?
we should all use the potent phrase "with our tax dollars."
I like it, Nora. We also have to be ready when they counter with some brilliant comeback,like,"Oh,you liberals always keep talking about "tax dollars"! Give it a rest and lighten up!"
Its' time to do some ruthess investigation to get to the bottom of what used to be the job of investigative Journalism. And then some. Journalists no longer do their jobs. I'm all for party leaders paying PI's get to the bottom of the filth comming out of the GOP.
I'm serious. There is no respect for decency, ethics, or truth. So get the truth buy hiring the big guns to look into the corruption of the media and the GOP.
I wish I could think of something clever to say in comments sections of blogs.
*sigh*
...still packin some ugly life but the wound shows they're just walking dead.
Big Time Dick has been UnDead for quite some time now.
Don't be fooled.
Nothing short of an asteroid strike on DC this week is going to improve the next four years.
They are so secretive. There needs to be inside intelligence on the administration. Then there needs to be well crafted accusations or innuendo on the weakness of what they are trying to do with reference to information they do not want released.
There are areas even without inside information that pressure can be applied. For instance the invasion of Iraq. Start mobilizing people for funerals, teachins, peaceful (following guidelines for abortion clinics) protests outside recuiting centers, etc. If each week the numbers increase it will reach a tipping point. The sheer numbers will start to get to them.
...and the "Blogging, Journalism, and Credibility" conference descends further into self-parody...
Oh man that looks like the biggest wanker conference ever.
Everytime we're tempted to ignore this kind of manufactured tempest in a teapot, let us recall my favorite Lewis Black quote - "House Republicans, reaching across the aisles - to punch you in the sack!"
-
people are ugly and nasty and brutish and quite likely short
Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?
Republican blogs should not be allowed to participate in any discussion about "Credibility." For example, John Hinderaker was invited to this so-called conference, but Powerlineblog.com is a fucking sick-ass joke that isn't funny. Everything I have read over there is inaccurate and damaging to our country at best.
There you have it. Atrios loves hat. Wait till the wankers blog that.
You will all receive subpoenas, being witnesses to this revelation.
"If each week the numbers increase it will reach a tipping point..."
If only this were true. How long have we been waiting for the magical tipping point? The list of Bush outrages grows ever longer, and IT NEVER COMES.
Interesting setup -- Atrios wrote:
As probably many of you are, August is wondering why one wastes any time with this stuff. I think he's wrong - there are two main reasons for pushing back. One is that it means that bullshit will only be accepted truth for 60% of the population instead of 85%. And, second, if you don't push back they're just emboldened the next time. But, more generally he's right about the dynamic at play...
August wrote:
We seem to have some fascination with the economy of the blogosphere all of a sudden... let's talk about the psychology of the blogosphere for a minute, okay?
Bloggers don't care. They just don't. ... The accusations about Kos being a Armstrong Williams-esque shill for Howard Dean are bullshit. Everyone knows it. Why are we even bothering trying to legitimately counter it? It's bullshit, we all know it's bullshit, the right-wingers all know it's bullshit. But they know the "Al Gore invented the internet" line is bullshit too, and you still see it in weblog comments.
I agree with Atrios, that we push back because we have to -- the Right Wingers are Stalinists, who follow the maxim, "probe with steel -- if you hit mush, probe deeper."
But August touches on something we should all consider -- internet chat, email, and blogging are a far different communication medium than TV, radio, or real live verbal communication.
The sad truth is that the Dean Campaign and Deaniacs confused the internet echo chamber for broad support, and the media bought into the hype.
The written word in cyberspace is stripped of all of the emotional nuance of the spoken word -- what reads a completely reasonable statement can sound like a snarky arrogant put down in real life.
The internet and blogs are a tool, but they have a far different psychological impact than old A-V media, or face to face conversation.
Bloggers don't care. They just don't. They don't care if anything they say is one hundred percent pure bullshit. If they can feel good about themselves and extract one more day of joy out of their meaningless non-blog lives but snarking in someone's comments section, they will.
Fits me to a T . Was this supposed to be all bloggers or just Wingnuttia ones?
Whenever I see hat posting here I think of a little tiny fez, worn by a dancing monkey. A shit-flinging, rhumey-eyed malignant monkey.
Ahem!
In all seriousness, this is just not that big a deal to me. Gasp! Journalists lie, film at 11.
Journalists lie all the time.
Sure, they got Kos into trouble, but he knew what he was getting into when he stepped into politics.
It ain't beanbag. People get hurt. Hopefully just their feelings and reputations.
Kos, and anyone who is rational, is 100 percent right on this.
When you run across anyone who gives you the Kos = payola line, just ignore them.
They are either willfully ignorant of reality, or they are deliberately trying to spread lies. Either way, at this point, it is pointless to argue with them.
Make sure to click on that conference link and leave a comment. They're getting reamed... let's pile on!
f only this were true. How long have we been waiting for the magical tipping point? The list of Bush outrages grows ever longer, and IT NEVER COMES.
Susan - 9:16 pm
Numbers = Visible people of all demographics increasing each week at these events.
Numbers - Not increasing numbers of blunders and scandals by the Bushies.
Oh, sorry, Monkey. I'm sure you're a very nice simian!
They are so secretive. There needs to be inside intelligence on the administration. Then there needs to be well crafted accusations or innuendo on the weakness of what they are trying to do with reference to information they do not want released.
I was trying to make that point as well. Our Government lies to us, steals our money, pays off reporters, and screw us every wich way. If the media won't do their job and investigate and report honestly, we need to find other rescorces.
Who's the Fox Sports commentator on the Rams/Falcs game who sounds like Bender?
.
You HAVE to fight back.
Those bastards would LOVE folks like us to just back down.
If the media won't do their job and investigate and report honestly, we need to find other rescorces.
bigvic - 9:20 pm
What about journalism students from the "liberal" universities? They produced unexpected and significant results by looking into death row convictions.
Bloggers don't care. They just don't. They don't care if anything they say is one hundred percent pure bullshit.
(As opposed to Bush's good puppy press?)
If they can feel good about themselves and extract one more day of joy out of their meaningless non-blog lives but snarking in someone's comments section, they will.
(Sounds like all of the trolls who slither onto these boards. They must enjoy abuse.
Frankly, I hate having battles of wits with unarmed individuals.)
There is this incredible bit in the latest Extra (the nearly monthly magazine of Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting). Apparently Elisabeth Bumiller and Susan Page were at a panel discussion in Washington, DC, sponsored by a journalism school, and someone pointed out Bush lying without ever being called on it (somehow no comparison came up to the Clinus). So Bumiller went back and forth, perfectly representing the kind of inarticulate moron who can't speak English and yet holds down a job at the Paper of Record (you know, you know, you know, blah blah blah...), and the other one wimpers that it's actually more powerful to say that his assertions do not square with the facts, and Bumiller allows herself to slip right back to mumbling, and here admits that at one point Bush was pretty much lying, but she was able to cover up for him.
Soon after this the audience annoys her with giggling and talking, and the moderator, the journalism prof, comes out and asks about an earlier diktat of Bumiller's: "Why can't you just say it plainly?" [that Bush is lying]
Bumiller spends the rest of the segment yelling at the audience for failing to grasp the importance of not actually calling a spade a spade. It makes the $3.95 worth it by itself.
(By the way, we are not compensated by Dykes to Watch Out For, Fair, Harper's, Dollars and Sense, Cursor, Chick Tracts or any other thing we endorse. In fact, we're not even compensating the original creator of the lovely angels or their American rights holder. There is no money, anywhere.)
Dave,
I took your advise and left a comment. I feel only slightly better now. My lovely dinner is still ruined, however.
How long have we been waiting for the magical tipping point? The list of Bush outrages grows ever longer, and IT NEVER COMES.
Susan
If a poll of Bu$hCo supporters falls on the floor in the Heartland and Gallup/ CNN/ MSGOP won't report it, does anyone outside of Left Blogistan hear?
Aren't bunnies great? Wouldn't you like to invite a giant blue bunny to your next event? Click 'Homepage' to find out how!
In the interest of full disclosure, I get $1 for every click-through.
K&Y,
Good post. I think humiliating (fuck manners) asswipes like Bumiller, Judith Fuck 'em Miller, Saffire, Novak, etc. is the right approach. Way past time to pretend these folks are fair and balanced.
Time to call them on their shoddy work. To their faces, impolitely and loudly.
One of the above commenters is correct about this. How much money is Instapundit getting from the government? We deserve full disclosure.
re: magical tipping point--
uh, IX/XI. If they can survive that, what the hell won't they survive? Can you imagine if that happened during the Cold War?
FYI
McKinnon, the idiot in charge of the Harvard conference has a blog:
http://rconversation.blogs.com/
The Kenosha Kid,
If you are serious, I will click you page till I get Carpel tunnel. And any other Atriot. Is that a word?
I have a confession to make. All during the Kerry campaign I was a paid RNC troll on this blog.
I was told to use bad grammar and spell everything incorrectly, so that Vicky and Tena would flame me like Strunk and White, and get everyone off topic. As you can see, I can't stop making mistakes now. It's a kind of instant karma, like making a face and having it stay that way.
Have you heard of FAR LEFT groups like the Black Bloc? (sp?) I don't mean "the michael moore wing" of the left...I'm talking anarchists.
Those were the only guys on the left who were really happy to see W win. They figure it's too late to bother. Either way it goes we're pretty much F'd. The only way to fix anything anymore is pray these assholes run it into the ground, then there can be a revolution. Jeb 08!
I mean, why isn't there at least a WEather Underground 2K? People should start wacking people until the liars stop lying.
Just a friendly reminder: The week of *ignore the massive number of typos and misspellings of big* has been extended to infinity and beyond.
Thanks for yore pashints.
I AND MANY OF MY WINGNUT COMRADES WERE PAID TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS, ESPECIALLY ON YAHOO MESSAGE BOARDS, BY THE AMERICAN ALLCAPS INSTITUTE, WHICH IS FUNDED BY THE MAJOR KEYBOARD MANUFACTURERS.
Thank you for the kind thought, bigvic, but I have not yet succeeded in convincing any giant blue bunnies to pay me to post here. It was wishful thinking.
Atrios,
I agree with your post. I think the Right would find a way to fight back against a 'scandal'; they wouldn't just ignore it, and it's better to answer the accusation, somehow, than to keep their mouths shut.
The Right treats politics like it's litigation- that's the thing.
However, I do agree with others that we shouldn't let it distract us from pressing our affirmative agenda. We can't settle into a defensive stance.
steelers won- the legend continues
Another friendly reminder: Ignore bait and enjoy rational conversation has been extended to infinity and farkin' beyond.
Please continue talking to to your friends. Thaank Keew.
And speaking of not finding the Anthrax Terrorist:
No Conspiracy Here
Not only that, there are still some Shining Path gonzos out there.
The Clinton era was a dry time for them: peace and prosperity breaking out all over, and all that.
It is always sad to see a CIA-funded bogeyman lose their funding.
On the brighter side, redRumsfeld has a whopping black budget now, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Black Bloc, along with others, start making a comeback.
Fuck! Can't type, can't edit, can't close tags...
Well, there's always Journalism!
anyway... I guess there are some things that are better to be ignored, and others that should be answered. But since we have SCLM working against us by blowing the thing out of proportion, I *guess* we have to try to counter it...
I guess it's really a judgment call that an experienced-type should really be best able to make, about what issues we need to answer, and which ones we don't. However, the Dems haven't put in the coordination or the expertise to help us out with this...
While on the otherside, they got lots of unscrupulous little operators, coordination, a vast propaganda network... everything.
PSA: the week of forgiving people for omitting closing tags has been extended to farkin infinity!
...and incidently, "people wacking people" is an incredibly bad idea.
Cherthoff would love for you to do that.
A "librhul terra-ist conspiracy" would fit in the Bu$hCo propaganda campaign quite nicely, thank you.
In fact, I can think of no better excuse for redRumsfeld to unleash the death squads here, too.
We really need a liberal/progressive Fox-equivalent (maybe call it Rabies?). We need it to feed our interpretations to the SCLM. It's a really urgent task. We have very little access to the media (except as punching bags on O'Reilly), and we need to make it. Blogs are good but they don't reach the majority of Americans and they are unlikely to ever do so as reading blogs requires a certain kind of active mind.
Time to start looking for an angel for this project.
kelly b. -
who's to stop them from wacking themselves and blaming it on leftists anyway? I doubt it's beyond them.
Ok, here's the Herman Edwards quote about sticking up for yourself. Inspirational, and all that:
"It's good for you. The harder, the better. Come on. The bigger the bully, the better. Come on. Because life is about a fight. You can't go run in your house and close the door. You're not in your neighborhood, so you'd better go fight. If we do that, we'll be OK."
Kenosha,
Damned sorry to hear that. I'd have made ya RICH, I tell ya!
Bigvic; if you type with yer feets like I do, a hint: Taking yer shoes off reduces the nimber of typos remarkably.
As law enforcement, intelligence and military in the US is increasingly politicized by the rich conservative elites, they'll increasingly be tempted to use their capabilities to entrap liberals. Meanwhile these right-wing individuals will tell themselves that they're doing a good deed.
Think of how many crooks the FBI could catch if they tried something like ABSCAM against Bush's crew and wingnutters in general, pundits, etc. But that won't happen, because the FBI and DOJ are probably both really political now, and really high up in the chain of command.
It's basically the end of the rule of law, and the beginning of the reign of ideology.
Exactly my point about black budget bucks going to fund "leftist" anarchist groups.
Although for that matter there are more than enough "private contractors" run by ex-special forces ops to do it.
On the other hand, if they launder their money well and rope some clueless fanatic "leftists" to do the job it would be much easier to pull off and hide their tracks than using some idiotic bloody handed ex-SEAL mercenary plumber types.
After all, "private contractors" were the ones that started the Iraqi insurrection by pissing off the civilians enough to firebomb their SUVs.
... and on that cheery note, good-night, all!
We really need a liberal/progressive Fox-equivalent (maybe call it Rabies?). We need it to feed our interpretations to the SCLM. It's a really urgent task.
Since Fox doesn't acknowledge that it's a GOP shill organization, the establishment of a progressive-leaning news organization would be met with a river of vomit from the GOP-shilling pundits about an "overtly partisan news organization".
I believe that we should continue to support and enrich the efforts of people like David Brock who are building progressive think-tanks and such.
I comfort myself by knowing that truth and history are on our side.
Full disclosure: I'm being paid by these guys.
Buy something or the Blue Bunny gets it! They're serious!!!
The RW bloggers may not care about the truth but some of their readers do. I think it's good to leave "fact seedlings" on RW blogs just so that other readers may realize they may not be getting the real story.
Swan,
That quote you posted is so relevant to a conversation my daughter and I had earlier.
Was telling her how blatant racism was in the 60's and how women were so marginalized and the irrationalization of Commie fear was exploited to scare us about tiny N. Viet Nam.
I think the success of the "peace and justice" movement that the wingnuttery are fighting to this day means they see a sea change in public perception and are fighting against the death rattle of their cause.
Yes, we need to push back - otherwise, they will roll over you everytime.
But also note, push back itself is a defensive strategy. We are always pushing back. When will we ever get them to be in 'push back' mode?
Last time we were in offensive mode was when those 350 tons of explossives were missing in al quaqua. That only lasted a wk. Can you think of another instance?
bigvic, I hope you're right, man.
but at any rate, it's good to hear a voice around here that wants to be a little positive.
The RW bloggers may not care about the truth but some of their readers do. I think it's good to leave "fact seedlings" on RW blogs just so that other readers may realize they may not be getting the real story.
Steve Jandreau | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 10:12 pm
Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who "buy" into those spin points, obvious lies, and blatent mis-representations do so very willingly. This is because the right-wing media-manipulation project has turned politics into a GODDAMNED FOOTBALL GAME. If you are rooting for your team you will most likely yell at the referee even if your team is in the wrong. This is the same bullshit.
its quite egocentric to think the repukelican pathos of phantasmagorical lying to conquer rational thought has anything to do with the blogosphere. The phenomenon started pre-blogosphere and is raging well beyond its limits.
-
I'm afraid that we don't have the option of just not responding. There is more at work here than a convenient equivalence argument in the Williams scandal. That is what this particular story is being used for at this moment, but the blogging conference and all this ongoing hoo-hah about blogging ethics is a problem that we on the left had better deal with.
I just heard Campbell Brown and her posse of botoxed zombies discussing the influence of bloggers and they all agreed that "the blogosphere" did a great job with "Rathergate" but that there existsd nonetheless a credibility problem with blogs as compared to good journalism. Do you see where this is going?
The right blogosphere is part of the greater rightwing media infrastructure with all the support, money and establishment "credibility" that goes with that. Remember Howie Kurtz claiming that Limbaugh is a regular mainstream commentator? In his circles, that's true.
We on the left, however, remain independent of everything but a very superficial attachment to the Democratic Party in a couple of cases and a few writers like Yglesias and Drum and Atrios (now) who are affiliated with magazines and the nascent think tanks like Media Matters.
If we do not nip this nonsense in the bud, the right will be the default blogosphere in eyes of the mainstream media because WE will have been tainted as lacking in credibility while they are feted as heroes --- largely because the powerful right wing echo chamber will have made them so. It doesn't mean we will disappear, but we will become marginalized.
People like Kos have the same right to make a living from passionately advocating for Democrats as a prick like Hugh Hewitt does for the other side. But, I think if you check their tax returns you'll see quite a difference in how much they make doing it. And it isn't because Hewitt is any more valuable. He's just one of dozens of geeky wingnut flacks who make millions creating and disseminating right wing propaganda.
But, because the "liberal" media and "liberal" academe obviously are clueless about the blogosphere and the Right Wing Noise machine, they are going to fuck our side over as we try to build our own message machine. And the wingnuts will be laughing all the way to the bank.
We should blog the Armstrong Williams story, of course. There is torture and dismantling social security and total ruination of the country that we have to blog about as well. But this is a legitimate issue for us and it's one that directly affects what we do. If at least some of us don't fight this then our side will wind up staying entertaining gadflys while the other becomes a message behemouth.
If we are trying to build something real then we'd better make ourselves heard when naive academics and members of the SCLM hold conferences and invite know nothings and those with an agenda to decide for us what ethics we should have.
Dang, Doozer. That just might work.
Heh, heh. Knowing myself, it may not. *sigh* Really, I'm hopeless.
There is one more important reasonn to continue doing what you are doing, Atrios:
You sustain the rest of us. It was a revelation for me to discover that I was not alone in my ultra-conservative, northern-Michigan town, where everyone is brainwashed.
In a world where all the media is dominated by right-wing thinking, you have created a forum for the like-minded 56 million who voted for sanity in November.
Please, never underestimate the power of what you are doing. You can help us all win this fight. It won't be quick, but I believe we will prevail, thanks largely to people like you putting yourselves out there to fight against what seem like incredible odds.
But if the odds against us seem incredible, think about how much worse they have been for other progressives in the past. Think of the struggle faced by Susan B. Anthony. Or Frederick Douglass.
They never gave up. And eventually, they prevailed. What they achieved is now under assault. And it is our duty to protect their legacy.
Clear path to victory:
1) Recognize that we're the global majority.
2) Think and act globally.
3) This requires thinking not of America's left as isolated and outnumbered, but as an extension of the global left.
4) recognize that Bush has destroyed American sovereignty and legitimacy.
5) organize our political structure to enlist and utilize external support to prosecute and politically marginalize our insane, illegal, illegitimate opposition.
In fact, I'll hit this up again, for emphasis:
"You're not in your neighborhood, so you'd better go fight. If we do that, we'll be OK."
You know, I've always understood courage: I always knew courage wasn't when you roll with a crew to beat some kid up- it's when the crew rolls up on you, and even though you're alone, you say "fuck you" anyway. That's the kind of fighting spirit that counts in life. If you have it, it permeates everything you do, whether you're in peril or not.
Both left and right have same disease. I still here leftists whining about stolen elections. We know it's bull, but they can't stop blabbing about it. Pretty soon, people will get tired of this win the argument, use a lie tour. People voted for Clinton twice, because he was a loveable guy. People voted for Bush twice, because he was a lovable guy. The middle is where the votes are. The extreme left/right is where the nutters are.
Ricky, I disagree.
Positioning yourself in a compromise half-way between righteous and nazi makes you half-nazi.
Setting aside the moral shortcoming of your stance, consider the tactical problem with DLC dems.
Positioning yourself as a centrist today is a great way to make yourself ineffective, compromised, meaningless, and irrelevant. The nation is divided, and there is no middle to play to.
Wow, four or five insightful and thoughtful comments followed by an idiot.
We need to be EFFECTIVE.
Pushing back is not enough. When was it acceptable lie, cheat and steal? And that's just the media.
When did it become ethical to appear in public and say things that are not true?
When did a man who clearly did not fulfill his duty to his country become an acceptable candidate for President?
Pushing back is not enough. Some people must be held accountable for their actions.
Liars must be exposed as liars. That means that they are unacceptable news and opinion personallities. They must be removed from their editorial, reporting and hosting positions.
This is America, for fuck's sake. We don't behave this way.
They are whipping us at every turn and we are taking it - even considering becoming more like them if we are to win.
These people (Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, Coulter, Bush, Rove, Cheney,
etc...) are evil. They must be exposed for the liars, cheats and thieves that they are.
My God! They're giving us enough rope to hang a thousand of them. Drug fiends, sex maniacs, liars, deserters, torturers.
Enough. If we don't hold them accountable, if the conservatives don't hold them accountable, we are lost.
For fuck's sake, we are lost.
Digby, I understand where you're coming from, but you're getting too defensive on this.
You know, there really is at least a grain of truth in the saying, "the best defense is a good offense."
In a fight, it can be perfectly adequate to push through a bunch of blows that are coming your way, just go straight at the guy and shove him, rather than try to dodge and shit- sometimes that's the better, and, the only answer against a powerful attack coming from the other guy- not throwing up an offenze might just encourage him too much; or if you don't ignore defense for a minute to shift to attack, he might be able to keep you off-balance. Feels reckless, yet it's exactly what you need.
Bro, I can see where you're coming from about Dean, but you should've just kept that for your own knowledge. You're being a sucker if you're buying their memes and letting it influence what you broadcast to the blogoshpere.
Incidentally, I think you're a great blogger, but you made a mistake on that one. You should let it go. In particular instances, pride isn't worth it- it's better to let it go.
Digby,
all agreed that "the blogosphere" did a great job with "Rathergate" but that there existsd nonetheless a credibility problem with blogs as compared to good journalism. Do you see where this is going?
Hell yes! The MSM has gone to such lengths to appear neutral, that they have given the wingnuts credibility where it is not justified. Pure and simple. He said/she said now takes the place of smacking down outright lies and propaganda. It's a system gone mad and needs to be set straight.
Now is the time to yell about this, not cower.
oops, Digby, I just read your comment again and maybe you're not as 'on the defense' as I thought... sorry if I misread you...
OT but yeesh...
Bush prolcaims Sanctity of Life Day>
But.. but.. I thought he was a War President....
Now could we please hit them with the chair? Please, now, the chair?
Hell yes! The MSM has gone to such lengths to appear neutral, that they have given the wingnuts credibility where it is not justified. Pure and simple. He said/she said now takes the place of smacking down outright lies and propaganda. It's a system gone mad and needs to be set straight.
Now is the time to yell about this, not cower.
bigvic
Those who compromise with nazis get the same smack-down as the nazis.
Enough. If we don't hold them accountable, if the conservatives don't hold them accountable, we are lost.
For fuck's sake, we are lost.
The End
Make it so.
Ripley, that's funny as hell...
ricky
How much did the bush administration pay you to post that?
Okay, I don't want to sound despairing---
and yes, I do this every couple of
weeks before I get over it --
but the troll that was here the other
night was probably right.
The bad guys have every area of
government -- media, congress, the
courts, the presidency -- under their
control.
Plus the voting machines.
Unless there's a major scandal a la
Watergate, by 2008 it's all over.
One party rule -- which is what they've
been trying to achiveve -- will be
a reality.
Anybody got a serious alternative?
Digby, I understand where you're coming from, but you're getting too defensive on this.
Sorry, mate, you cannot get too defensive about *this* or allowing your government to lie, steal and cheat you. Not acceptable to have paid media prostitute gov. lies pimping damaging policy that really, really hurts folks.
No grey line here.
Anybody got a serious alternative?
steve simels
Yeah, the Iraqis won't quit. That's the major obstacle to Bush's wet dream of ultimate power. He's ignorant, cruel fantasy is running up against a hard reality. A growing resistance to the occupation.
What we need is a coordinated messaging campaign that firmly positions us as the voice of reason.
I don't want a left-wing media; what good will that do? People will just gravitate to whatever agrees with their pre-conceptions and will never hear more than one side of any issue. That's the problem we have now with the right wing media.
What we need is a reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine, which would pretty much put Faux News and Rush Limbaugh out of business in one fell swoop. We won't get a reinstatement without control of Congress, which is virtually impossible to gain with the current rightwing stranglehold on media, and that's the Catch-22.
How to shift the debate? From here on out, any liberal or Democrat given a soapbox on any outlet should be talking about how the Republicans have killed the honored American tradition of the loyal opposition. How the Republicans want Americans to believe that the one-party governments of the USSR, Red China, Saddam Hussein, Hitler, Mussolini are a superior model to the two party system that served us so well for 2 centuries, and while doing so, quote Rush chortling about putting the Democratic party out of business, plus a mountain of quotes from Republican pundits and politicians about how only absolute Republican rule is acceptable or desirable. Knock them for their transparent decades-long campaign to turn Americans against one another, and quote Lincoln at them: "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Show righteous indignation that those who would rip the country apart for their own partisan purposes would dare to refer to anyone else as "unpatriotic".
In short, give them hell each and every time. Quote the founders at them, quote the Bible at them, give them no quarter. Beat them at the game they've invented, that of wearing the mantle of "moral" authority.
Every "liberal" has a target on the chest.
Yet where is the moral outrage from the conservatives over lying, cheating and stealing?
The real "push" must come from THEM.
Jennifer:
I'm with you about the Fairness
Doctrine.
I just don't how to pull it off
practically.
Nah, bigvic, you're misunderstanding me... For some reason, I was really misunderstanding his post when I first read it... I'd thought he meant, like, get mired up in a big discussion of 'blogger ethics,' that shit... but reading DIgby's post again, I realize he was actually being proactive- not buying into the fake issues.
I totally agree w/ you.
"I've seen gay men sell out their very soul for the sake of pretending that their President doesn't consider them an abomination."
Charles Johnson would be one.
Jennifer, Steve,
In America we're outgunned and out-moneyed. Globally, we're part of a huge majority. You guys should check this out, I'm hoping some folks will see the logic:
Clear path to victory:
1) Recognize that we're the global majority.
2) Think and act globally.
3) This requires thinking not of America's left as isolated and outnumbered, but as an extension of the global left.
4) recognize that Bush has destroyed American sovereignty and legitimacy.
5) organize our political structure to enlist and utilize external support to prosecute and politically marginalize our insane, illegal, illegitimate opposition.
Anybody got a serious alternative?
Massive civil disobedience, and I don't mean just focus groups, er...marches. Gene Sharp came up with a list of 198 non-violent sanctions that we should start planning to use NOW.
As long as the fucking media is willing to repeat the fucking lies as nauseum without any consequence, the right wing will flourish. Let our side put out a lie and the media jumps all over it and repeatedly reports on the lie told by the left. Fuck, we can't win with a stacked deck like that.
I'll tell you why you bother.
You bother because this is a WAR, and their side has been winning, and doing so with scorched earth and inhuman tactics.
You bother to fight back because in this WAR, their side has now just committed a very, very big blunder from the standpoint of the issues of journalistic ethics and crediblity, which our side can and should exploit for all its worth.
That means law suits, if necessary.
That means discovery to reveal who these people (Novak, O'Reilly, Begala, Hewitt, the WSJ, CNN) are being paid off by.
That means getting retractions and appologies from them.
That means collecting money from them through legal judgments if it should come to that.
That means getting some of their "soldiers" fired.
That means using this as on opportunity to expose the way the VRW machine works.
That means using this as an opportunity to turn it around and highlight how this latest round of dishonesty on their parts was meant to smear Dean, smear the blogosphere, and take attention off of what was going on with Armstrong Williams and similar situations.
Your enemy, who has been mercilessly pounding you, and will, if he gets the chance, KILL YOU, has now committed a huge tactical error which has left one its major flanks exposed and vulnerable.
Here's what you now do:
Attack, attack, attack!!!
My plan in 3 words:
Enlist foreign allies.
If we are trying to build something real then we'd better make ourselves heard when naive academics and members of the SCLM hold conferences and invite know nothings and those with an agenda to decide for us what ethics we should have.
So how do we get representation on these panels, for what they're worth?
You lefties want to flounder around some more, or are you ready to hop in? Take your time. Either way, I await.
Sanctity of Life Day???
WTF???
Not now, dust-bin of history. We might be ready when the sun burns out.
Can I get some replies to this outside-the-box idea I presented?
Enlist foreign allies.
Sanctity of Life Day???
WTF???
Tell that to 100,000 Eye-rackis.
Here in Merkin land,in order for real change to happen,people must die.Otherwise everybody just ignores everything except for a womans nipple on tv,of course.
if you don't push back they're just emboldened
I look at it this way: We have control of whether or not we push back. What that actually accomplishes is out of our hands. We should push not because of any outcome, but simply because that is the only way to know that we have done all that was within our power.
But that's just me...
The hacks are feeling the heat, thus the response. Put them on the defensive, always. One, two, a thousand Somerbys. Taking up the Fairness Doctrine as an ongoing cause/campaign is a good idea. Put the fuckers on the defensive, and keep them there.
Clear path to victory:
1) Recognize that we're the global majority.
2) Think and act globally.
I think I see, Visual, no pun intended...O! hell, I intended.
But you're on to something, comforting, at least.
Harvard? Like they know anything about ethics? Check out this post called href="http://velvelonnationalaffairs.blogspot.com/
2004/12/there-is-no-room-for-morality-at.html">There Is No Room For Morality At Harvard
Then, too, there is the recently disclosed case of the newly hired Harvard Professor Jack L. Goldsmith III, yet another faculty member of the Law School, wouldn’t you know. Goldsmith’s hiring was approved by the law faculty in May 2004. His case may or may not involve deliberate falsehood by Goldsmith -- not enough is publicly known yet to make a firm determination, although on the basis of facts already known, this writer finds it hard to understand how the matter could not involve deceit. As well, the case almost surely involves what this writer, at least, considers serious immorality.
Goldsmith, a former law faculty member at Chicago and Virginia (only the most "elite" schools for this apparent transgressor), came to Harvard from the prestigious Office of Legal Counsel of the Department of Justice. That office -- which years ago gave us William Rehnquist and now has given us Federal Appeals Court Judge Jay Bybee, an author of a memo condoning torture -- writes legal memoranda that the White House and other Executive Branch offices rely on.
It seems that, while Goldsmith headed the Office of legal Counsel, he wrote a draft memo, dated March 19, 2004, saying that it is alright to transfer prisoners out of Iraq to other countries for interrogation. (These transfers contributed to the problem of "ghost detainees" -- prisoners who were kept off of official registers and were moved around inside prisons to hide them from the Red Cross.) The other countries, and their personnel, were used ....in order to try to evade the strictures against torture of American law. Although Goldsmith’s memo did not itself discuss the torture, it has been reported that the CIA and other American agencies relied on his draft memo as a legal basis for the transfers to the countries of torture.......
Thank you, The End. I'm grateful to get a response. It's not so unthinkable, is it?
When your country falls into the hands of proto-nazis, why not accept the help of our European friends?
They can't help if we don't make a structure or program through which they can affect our domestic policy.
Let me try that link again-
here
One of the reasons given for hiring and retaining Goldsmith is that he presents a different point of view, a conservative point of view, which should be represented in discussions at the Harvard Law School. Well, while I have always been in favor of diversity of viewpoints on a faculty, and our own faculty ranges from very liberal to quite conservative -- although we see no need to hire the right wing kooks who seem to be taking over the world -- I have lately begun to wonder about the intellectual diversity argument. The right wing has taken over the government, radio, part of television, a significant part of the newspaper world, and certain religiously based universities. Having taken over much of the world, is it really necessary that they be given a major voice in universities too? They’ve done pretty well without a major foothold at lots of universities. Why give these nuts still more power?
But that is just an inchoate view and an idiosyncratic one to boot. There is a much more important view in today’s real world. Let faculty diversity of viewpoint be the desideratum: Are we then supposed to think that the only conservative expert on International Law who is worthy of being hired by Harvard is one who appears to have cooperated with torture? Is Harvard unable to find any other excellent conservative expert, unable to find one who has not cooperated with torture? This is not bloody likely if you ask me. Then there is Dean Kagan. She is said to have told the Globe last week that Harvard determined that Goldsmith III is "‘an absolutely superb teacher and scholar,"’ "‘puts issues on the table that everyone focuses on and debates,"’ and is "‘a very agenda-setting scholar, and that’s exactly the kind of exciting scholarship that we want to have here.’" (Nobody could quarrel with her that he has helped put the issue of torture on the table, which I guess contributes to his being an agenda-setting scholar.) Dean Kagan summed up her paean to Jack III by saying "‘I’m as proud of this appointment as I could be."’ Wow! Heady stuff. Dean Kagan is as proud as she can be about appointing an agenda-setting scholar whose agenda appears to have included the furthering of torture. Terrific: I can hardly wait until Heinrich Himmler applies for a professorship at Harvard.
VP,
Playing devil's advocate for a second, do you think this Administration-influenced media would blink when challenged by "old Europe"? They take their cues from the White House, which says "agree or die" to anyone who stands in their way.
My minor opinion.
Enlist foreign allies.
Visual Politics
I agree and have been feeling this for a long time now. If the world stands up and says, enough, that will have a powerful and sustaining impact.
Now why they should or would do this, when our own Dem congressmen and senators won't... well, I don't know.
I think the world is at the tipping point, though, and sooner or later there's going to have to be a country who leads. Who stands up to the American bully and says to hell with your money and your bullshit. We have a world we need to preserve for our children, and their children.
It will take a consortium of nations, but it is our only hope. We can no longer do it from within...
I agree with going global. repukelicans may have destroyed the US as we know it, but they can not destroy its ideals, which have taken seed in many areas of the globe.
The future is outside the borders of the US. Doesn't mean giving up here, but the struggle to return the US to the path forward is daunting given the pervasiveness of the repukelican takeover of the levers of power.
-
What about journalism students from the "liberal" universities? They produced unexpected and significant results by looking into death row convictions.
The Spirit of Howard Beale
This is just the best damn idea I've heard.
.
Put the fuckers on the defensive, and keep them there.
Thrasyboulos
Amen, brother.
Anybody got a serious alternative?
Yes! Truth will out the lies every time when we all just get real and stop farkin' going with the flow.
Stand for something. Shit. We have become cowards and defensive where we are correct AND strong.
Not giving in to supressive, oppressive, destructive Government should be the easy part
We need to show our spines. Often, ruthlessly, and imediately.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Sunday, January 16, 2005, as National Sanctity of Human Life Day. I call upon all Americans to recognize this day with appropriate ceremonies in our homes and places of worship and to reaffirm our commitment to respecting the life and dignity of every human being.
"...unless they're Arabic, black, or gay."
NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim January 16, 2005, as Religious Freedom Day. I encourage all Americans to reflect on the great blessing of religious freedom, to endeavor to preserve this freedom for future generations, and to commemorate this day through appropriate events and activities in homes, schools, and places of worship.
"...see previous entry."
Roddy - I look at it this way: We have control of whether or not we push back. What that actually accomplishes is out of our hands. We should push not because of any outcome, but simply because that is the only way to know that we have done all that was within our power
That's true at all times - we can only control our reactions to things - beyond that, not much we can do. We can't control events outside of ourselves. So it's our decision, and I'm with you - I'm pushing back.
Sorry for the long post, but I thought that was worth reading.
VP, I do like your idea about foreign allies.
Isn't this the whole purpose of the World Social Forum?
VP,
Playing devil's advocate for a second, do you think this Administration-influenced media would blink when challenged by "old Europe"? They take their cues from the White House, which says "agree or die" to anyone who stands in their way.
My minor opinion.
watertiger
The EU has a bigger population and a bigger economy than us. They have plenty of capital to throw at the problem. We need them to invest in America's peace-movement.
No need to violate American sovereignty. We just need to establish the contacts and let them know, we want to do an the job.
It's important for Europe's economy and global stability that America is returned to sane leadership. We just need to show that we know can handle their support and become a conduit for their participation in our domestic politics.
i just want to register my disagreement with the August quote Atrios offered. sure there are dweebs who will never learn. but blogs do a *lot* of good. a *lot* of good. there are a lot of people out there -- myself included -- who are open-minded but easily misled. many of them (not enough, but many) find blogs and have misconceptions (often based on lies) cleared up.
think of how you'd feel if kerry had won by 1% of the vote -- undoubtedly you'd feel that blogs had contributed to that and so were extremely valuable. but they still contributed a lot, even if it didn't make the difference for victory. It's quite possible that next time it *will* make the difference.
there are a *lot* of people who are open-minded but simply misinformed. for them, blogs are of enormous value. denying this obvious fact is, i think, just letting cynicism rationalize inaction.
VP,
Personally, I think it would the poetic justice for old Europe to unhinge the deathgrip that this administration has on the nation.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
.
bigvic:
Truth will out the lies every time when we all just get real and stop farkin' going with the flow.
Stand for something. Shit. We have become cowards and defensive where we are correct AND strong.
That's right. The only thing liberals need to be doing right now is the same things they have been:
-educate people about the issues. Talk to people you haven't before. Buy someone a copy of The Great Unraveling. Expose the vampires to the light of day.
-write to your elected reps and newspapers.
-sign every damned good petitions.
-call in to pundit shows, whether right or left.
But, step it up. Do it often. Keep the truth alive. There's not much else we can do. We have to exercise our right to free speech much more strongly than we have been. Educate yourself. Educate others. give people the addies of good blogs. set a good example. counter right-wingers with reason and as much vigor as they hold against you. treat a right-winger your know with a little less civility; engage them in a debate instead of backing down for the sake of keeping everything polite.
Whatever you've been doing up to this point- keep doing it. But double it.
Yes, it's on HERE, IT'S HERE
Tom L.
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Actually, I'm going to have to go the other way and say that really isn't such a good idea VP. Any contact with "old Europe" or other outside help would only discredit us in the eyes of the general populace, and be used to paint us once again as "europhiles" and "not as American as we should be".
susan b. anthony, gak, Karin,
I'm glad you see the opportunity in escaping the limitations of national scope.
Remember when some brits were doing an email campaign on behalf of Kerry? They were willing to spend time trying to convince republicans in Ohio to not vote for satan?
We can can enlist their minds and their money. It's not so hard to get foreign money here and put it to good use. We just need to show that we can effectively put it to use.
Also, we need to let our foreign friends know which American products to boycott to punish our collaborator companies.
it's unethical and probably, in at least some capacities, illegal to be getting foreigners involved in American politics.
Kos should sue. It may take some time, but when it's over he could very well end up owning the journal.
This is war.
And the other guys will not hesitate to bayonet the wounded.
august is exactly, dead-solid-perfect, right.
A lot of leftie bloggers get off on being right - on presenting the logical, fact based argument that refutes the bullshit from the right. The thing is, we are way past issues of right and wrong - the wingers don't give a shit about being right - isn't that fucking obvious to everyone by now?
All they care about is controlling the conversation. That's it. And they do it suberbly - frighteningly so.
But, the ONLY reason they can do it is because the media repeats their horseshit. And repeats it. And repeats it.
My point is that all of our chest-beating, all of our superior logic and argumentation and rationality, ain't worth a bucket of spit. We like to denigrate the "right wing echo chamber". Well, an echo chamber doesn't let the sound out, and, obviously, they're excellent at getting the sound out. Phenomenal, actually. We need to face the fact that the real echo chamber is the left wing media - it is tiny and insignificant.
The ONLY solution that will allow us to make any impact on the public discourse is for liberals to buy and control more of the broadcast media. If George Soros really wants to make a fucking impact, he should spend his money on buying up radio and TV stations, not on funding think tanks. That just makes the echo chamber bigger.
It's the only way. The solution is super simple. All it takes is money.
Quick, how many radio stations is James Dobson on? Al Franken?
That's our fucking problem.
It's the media, stupid.
Demosthenes,
I'm not worried about them thinking ill of us any more. I'm only interested in disempowering them and putting their corrupt leaders in prison.
Remember when some brits were doing an email campaign on behalf of Kerry? They were willing to spend time trying to convince republicans in Ohio to not vote for satan?
================
And remember how that worked out? That turned out to be one of the few Ohio counties that voted Gore in 2000 and then turned and voted Bush in 2004. The backlash against foreign involvement was ugly, and it was stupid to provoke it.
it's unethical and probably, in at least some capacities, illegal to be getting foreigners involved in American politics.
Tell that to Prince Bandar.
it's unethical and probably, in at least some capacities, illegal to be getting foreigners involved in American politics.
Swan
Wrong. It's most definitely ethical and can also be legal. It's like soft-money, there's always a work-around without breaking the law. Shoot, just get the europeans to invest in our media companies.
Mario Carino, that's a good point, but I do think that rational argument beats irrational argument.
Lefties should not give up on rationally arguing or discussing with others. We don't do it enough, or enthusiastically enough, because too many of us are too "beta" and reluctant to participate in confrontation.
You can persuade a lot of people with reason. It might just take a lot of effort and trying. But that's no excuse to not go for it.
Yeah, dustbin, after you...
Isn't "Sanctity of Life" day ridiculously close to MLK day?
A little too close for comfort, if you ask me.
I agree that if we don't push back they will be emboldened. Proof can be found in the senate where, until recently, the democratic senators were having a hotly contested "whose the biggest pussy" contest for the past four or more years. Best way to stop a bully is to stand up to him. You may get a bloody nose or a shiner, but more likely than not the bully will back off.
Jeepers H. Xmas,
Can I blogwhore to get a decent dictionary in my stocking next year? Fer criling out loud. Hell, I want a course in plain diction and spelling.
Yeahhrahhha!
Surely I misspelled that as well.
I'm not worried about them thinking ill of us any more. I'm only interested in disempowering them and putting their corrupt leaders in prison.
Visual Politics
============
VP, I'm not just talking about the right wingers. Americans in general resent any foreign intrusion into their affairs. Period. Thats just the way the general public is. You have to respect that or it's just going to bite you on the ass when you go against it.
Hate to kill anybody's buzz, but check out washingtonpost.com's front page.
"there was no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes."
There. At least he said it.
Bush Says Election Ratified Iraq Policy
No U.S. Troop Withdrawal Date Is Set
By Jim VandeHei and Michael A. Fletcher
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, January 16, 2005; Page A01
President Bush said the public's decision to reelect him was a ratification of his approach toward Iraq and that there was no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgments in prewar planning or managing the violent aftermath.
"We had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 elections," Bush said in an interview with The Washington Post. "The American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me."
Tell that to Prince Bandar.
watertiger
Indeed. We're seeing Saudi Capital expressed in our domestic politics already. Israeli money funded Cynthia McKinney's opponent.
Swan - Whatever you've been doing up to this point- keep doing it. But double it.
You know, it's true. That's how the right did this, in part. Look how many Save the Fetus associations there are out there. Every
one of them has a small army of people who write to all those same people - representatives, newspapers, school boards, tv stations, etc. etc., every time they're told to.
We've had some success ourselves doing this. It's tedious, but it is working. Add in whatever other kind of activism someone wants to do that keeps them sane. It isn't going to happen overnight.
bigvic
I agree show some backbone.
I don't know if the Dems can do it. And we have to organize now. Just think if you got just 1 million progessives to give $100 each year between now and 2008.... $300M war chest. There has to be a million of us. And also take to the streets...develop some leaders and get on the offense.
Actually, I'm going to have to go the other way and say that really isn't such a good idea VP. Any contact with "old Europe" or other outside help would only discredit us in the eyes of the general populace, and be used to paint us once again as "europhiles" and "not as American as we should be".
Nah, they think that about us anyway. We might as well get something out of it.
For my money, we should stop worrying about "blowback" or "backlash" and just do whatever we think is best. Backlash is nearly impossible to predict anyway, and the wingers will try to generate over anything we do, and even over stuff we don't do.
Dems: stop worrying what Republicans will say about you!!
Any contact with "old Europe" or other outside help would only discredit us in the eyes of the general populace, and be used to paint us once again as "europhiles" and "not as American as we should be".
DISAGREE. We need help. We are part of the global community. We have a stake in the future alongside our brothers and sisters around the world.
Nothing wrong with saying we could use assistance. Not to be snide, but your comment reeks of nationalism and jingoism and these are the characteristics of the right wing in this country.
Isn't "Sanctity of Life" day ridiculously close to MLK day?
A little too close for comfort, if you ask me.
He really wanted to call it "George W. Bush Day," but his advisors had already pegged 1/20/05 as that.
Swan - I don't think we're talking about foreigners donating money or directly involving themselves in electoral politics. I agree, that would be no good. I meant things like cooperating on boycott campaigns, putting pressure on global media companies.
VP, I'm not just talking about the right wingers. Americans in general resent any foreign intrusion into their affairs. Period. Thats just the way the general public is. You have to respect that or it's just going to bite you on the ass when you go against it.
Demosthenes
Demosthenes, Americans are shit-for-brains and they don't care about getting their wallet raped by Bushco and having their children sacrificed.
Aside from that, the money doesn't go directly into politics, it goes into media.
Korean billionaire Reverend Sun Yung Moon owns UPI and Washington Times.
Austrailian billionaire Rupert Murdoch owns Fox, of course, and plenty more.
WAKE UP!
Drunkee
I just read that a few moments ago. My wife didn't know I knew all the words I was screaming across the house. Doing my best to not break a damn tooth.
This president and his cronies should be indicted and sentenced. They have a choice. Lose their damn cocks publicly or spend the rest of their fucking lives visiting the graves of each Iraq veteran or attending their funerals as they happen. Nothing more. That is is, no jobs, no more positions, no golf they just get to spend the rest of their frickin lives looking at dead men and women.
I say involve the old Europe, the new Europe, Asia, South America, North America...
you get the idea.
I've been poking around the edges with the few Bush supporters I know the last few weeks - there is softness there with the Iraq disaster, especially with women. I think if there were massive protests now across the US and the world - in the US simply - Bring them home - people would look around and realize that they were not alone in thinking its fucked up to invade a country and then really really fuck up that process as well.
I wonder what Martin Luther King would be doing right now to stop this.
"The American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me."
Which is still open to debate.
Any contact with "old Europe" or other outside help would only discredit us in the eyes of the general populace, and be used to paint us once again as "europhiles" and "not as American as we should be".
================
DISAGREE. We need help. We are part of the global community. We have a stake in the future alongside our brothers and sisters around the world.
Nothing wrong with saying we could use assistance. Not to be snide, but your comment reeks of nationalism and jingoism and these are the characteristics of the right wing in this country.
===========
Thats because I was "quoting" what the right wing would say. And like it or not, the public in general tends towards nationalism, including much of the Democratic party. All we would do by encouraging foriegn involvement is to marginalize ourselves. Thats just the reality of the situation, whether or not you think it is just or unjust.
If truth and justice are to prevail, the conservatives must reject this evil themselves. It doesn't make sense for them to accept deceit and despotism.
They are focused on the "evil" of gays and baby killers. We must turn that focus to liars and innocent killers.
it's unethical and probably, in at least some capacities, illegal to be getting foreigners involved in American politics.
Swan
So don't involve them in politics, involve our freinds in promoting ethics and responsibilty, and especially economics.
Amen EkCenTrik - funerals for 20 year olds killed for a fraud would wake up a normal human being to the reality of this disaster. Sigh..
I think if there were massive protests now across the US and the world - in the US simply - Bring them home - people would look around and realize that they were not alone in thinking its fucked up to invade a country and then really really fuck up that process as well.
This Administration, and I quote, doesn't make decisions based on "focus groups." After all, Bush looked at the millions around the world who marched in protest and dismissed them with a smirk.
thanks, tena;
Demosthenes is right;
and:
Tell that to Prince Bandar.
Watertiger, you're cool, but I think it stinks to high heaven to be soliciting foreigners to get involved in our politics and I think it plays into the right wing's hands.
I do, however, sympathize with how foreigners feel about how much our American politics influence the rest of the world (yet the rest of the world has little say in what we do).
Answer? Support & stengthen the UN. That's the proper role for you to take as an American who recognizes trhe humanity and rights of non-Americans.
If George Soros really wants to make a fucking impact, he should spend his money on buying up radio and TV stations, not on funding think tanks. That just makes the echo chamber bigger.
I disagree. Don't underestimate the importance of think tanks. Note how many the Right funds; they don't do that for no reason. These people can have a tremendous impact on the character of political discourse. How many of Bush's policies are practically written by Grover Norquist?
In fact, I think Soros and other rich lefties would be better off funding think tanks, where a little money goes a long way, as opposed to trying to outbid wealthy Republicans ---the majority of companies being run by those who lean to the Right ---. This can have a sort of ideological trickle-down effect.
We've got to start at the fundamental level. Think tanks are where ideas are allowed to percolate, and strategies devised for communicating them to the public at large. Then you can hand the ball off to broadcasters. If we skip that step and just snap the ball straight to the media types, we will get ... well, what we have now: a number of voices, but no unified message.
Plus, then we could all get plush jobs like those right-wing assholes do.
All we would do by encouraging foriegn involvement is to marginalize ourselves. Thats just the reality of the situation, whether or not you think it is just or unjust.
We don't need to "encourage". I believe it's inevitable that world leaders are going to start getting very tough with this administration. They will be emboldened and they will act. It's only a matter of time. Whether they do it for their own economic interests, or because their citizens demand it, or because they suddenly get "religion" I don't think it matters.
No need to "quote" what the right wing would say. They will have no say, if and when the time comes.
I wonder what Martin Luther King would be doing right now to stop this.
Whatever he tried to do, he would be labelled a "moonbat."
If truth and justice are to prevail, the conservatives must reject this evil themselves. It doesn't make sense for them to accept deceit and despotism.
They are focused on the "evil" of gays and baby killers. We must turn that focus to liars and innocent killers.
it's unethical and probably, in at least some capacities, illegal to be getting foreigners involved in American politics.
Swan
So don't involve them in politics, involve our freinds in promoting ethics and responsibilty, and especially economics.
There is no separation between politics and media. Media companies are political entities. Foreign-owned media companies are foreign owned political entities.
Rupert Murdoch owns Hughes Networks (DirecTV, DirecPC), FOX, etc.
Reverend Moon, a Korean Billionaire who considers himself to be the messiah of all mankind, owns the Washington Times and United Press International.
Moon was coronated as the messiah in a senate office building, for real. An American congressman carried his crown on a pillow to him. Look it up!
Israeli money supported Cynthia McKinney's opponent! Direct foreign political intrusion! Don't forget the Saudi Trillions invested in our economy.
Oops.
the moment i saw the bushcriminal during the 2000 campaign, I knew immediately that he was pure scum - knew it in my bones. my family thought i was nuts to be so adamant. after the SCOTUS instilled the bushcriminal, i hounded my family almost daily with clips of truth from Eschaton and other oasis from blogistan. by the time of the Iraq invasion they were convinced - pretty much a clean sweep, from one bushcriminal-hater to twelve.
keep hounding. rail against the entire repukelican infrastructure, the very notion of being repukelican; shame any and all sane people away from the stench of repukelican, and there is hope.
-
Bush looked at the millions around the world who marched in protest and dismissed them with a smirk.
yep, there ya go.
You NEED to get out there and protest. But the reason you do it is to educate people, to show your presence and get them to say, "Hey, why are people protesting? What's this about?"
You can't be doing for the effect you imagine it has on the rich conservative elites. It may not have any.
Right-wing "think tanks" simply don't exist. In reality they're STINK-TANKS and their only job is to market genocidal products to a populace addicted to electronic heroin.
Support & stengthen the UN. That's the proper role for you to take as an American who recognizes trhe humanity and rights of non-Americans.
Swan, I don't follow.
One immediate thing to do is call this nonsensical Harvard conference:
The Blog-Censorship Conference.
Whether it's entirely fair or not, it's freaking fair enough.
ok, I vented off-the-hook and mis-typed and everything enough for tonight.
Goodnight, all, and take care.
Watertiger, you're cool, but I think it stinks to high heaven to be soliciting foreigners to get involved in our politics and I think it plays into the right wing's hands.
If I never hear the phrase "plays into the right wing's hands" again, it will be too soon.
Whether something "plays into their hands" or not is irrelevant, because they base their rhetoric on lies. It doesn't matter what we do; they will say we're unAmerican, French, gay, sympathetic to OBL, et fucking cetera.
Too often, Democrats are afraid to do something because it would "play into the right's hands". It might "marginalized".
This is like being down by 7 with 0:01 left on the clock, on the 50-yard line, and debating whether or not to throw a pass into the end zone, since it might get intercepted!
(Sorry, just got done watching two football games in a row.)
And then deciding just to take a knee: a pass would "play right into their hands".
We're already marginalized. The GOP is on the verge of making this a one-party state and taking over the govt. for good. We have to be smart, but we also have to try something. WHat we've been doing obviously isn't working.
Who hadn't heard about this?
Rev. Moon was coronated as the messiah in a senate office building. An American congressman carried his crown on a pillow to him.
An American congressman carried his crown on a pillow to him.
I believe it was a Democratic congressman, at that.
what susan b. anthony said. Whatever we want those other countries to do to help us, they are already going to do it for their own sakes. It's only a matter of time before it starts to have an impact. We can encourage them, they can encourage us.
We don't need to "encourage". I believe it's inevitable that world leaders are going to start getting very tough with this administration. They will be emboldened and they will act.
Right. We should see ourselves as moles, working from the inside to bring the whole thing crashing down.
I've given up trying to convince middle America of the evil represented by the Bush administration and all their right-wing cronies. Don't get me wrong: we should still keep plugging away vis-a-vis electoral politics. But we should stop "playing politics" so to speak, because it just doesn't work for us.
We should just go out there, speak the truth, loud and often, and let the chips fall where they may.
One immediate thing to do is call this nonsensical Harvard conference:
The Blog-Censorship Conference.
And loudly question why there isn't adequate representation of the "left wing" blogs.
Because if we don't keep fighting them and their disinformation, nobody will.
If not me, who?
If not now, when?
Right-wing "think tanks" simply don't exist. In reality they're STINK-TANKS and their only job is to market genocidal products to a populace addicted to electronic heroin.
ugly bag of mostly water | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 11:41 pm | #
"Right-wing think tank" is a bit of a contradiction in terms.
And may I just say, "ugly bag of mostly water", that that is the coolest handle in the history of the internet.
Watertiger,
yes, it was a democrat.
BTW, Swan and Demosthenes never dealt with the fact that the foreign money is used in the media, not directly in politics(except in the case of Cynthia McKinney's opponent).
They must have missed the fact that the repugs are already getting this foreign aid in the form of politically-loyal, foreign-owned media entities.
Here's a crucial point I made earlier:
"There is no separation between politics and media. Media companies are political entities. Foreign-owned media companies are foreign owned political entities."
Every one of them has a small army of people who write to all those same people - representatives, newspapers, school boards, tv stations, etc. etc., every time they're told to.
We've had some success ourselves doing this. It's tedious, but it is working.
Zackly.
So write something to Slate!!!
Go to Suellentrop's article, scroll down to feedback, select "Slate Comment and Corrections," and let them know that there are people out there who care that they publish this bullshit.
It is tedium par extraordinaire, and isn't going to get Suellentrop fired, but it has to be done.
Tena isn't really talking about writing mass media about their own behavior, but the principle applies. Suellentrop questioned Kos's ethics when the information needed to verify his breezy accusation was publicly available. 100, 200, 1000 e-mails, and the right people at Slate will become aware of the problem and give Suellentrop a talking to about impugning someone's motives without some basic fact-checking.
The guy isn't some junior staffer; he's the deputy Washington bureau chief. If the Times deputy Washington chief did something like that to Reynolds...
If you can spend energy bitching to each other about this, you can spend energy to write an e-mail. DO IT.
Humans are biologically programmed to be tribal. It helped us survive for 10,000 years. Technology has made it a liability.
Good-bye Homo Sapiens, it won't be long before you join the other 99% of Earth's extinct species.
It's hard to have any hope for one's children, grandchildren and oneself.
I have to lie to myself and pretend there's hope.
Thersites-I enjoyed your comments over there on Rebecca's blog.
We can encourage them, they can encourage us.
Karin
Yes, we can and we must. We must also open our thinking and discussion to include them as a part of our alliance.
Humans are biologically programmed to be tribal. It helped us survive for 10,000 years.
But...I thought the Earth only came into being 6,000 years ago.
I'm so confused.
You are absolutely right Grey Psoda - Dems are sounding like battered wives.. If only the kids don't make too much noise or speak out of turn, or his toast is perfect or the dog doesn't bark...
Everything will be twisted and used against us. Time to rewrite the rules and take control of the discussion. Everyone must speak up publicly, all the time starting with the senior Congress critters, the celebrities (Keep it up Mr. Springsteen - he is a hero to DH and I - we would have never met if not for his music - time to put it all on the line again)
down to all of us as individuals with a horse in this race. There are two choices, fight or die.
You are absolutely right Grey Psoda - Dems are sounding like battered wives.. If only the kids don't make too much noise or speak out of turn, or his toast is perfect or the dog doesn't bark...
Jill, Grey Psoda,
I agree. I'm tired of self-criticism from the left. Stop with all the introspection, the problem is with our opposition, not with us. Fight like a winner, not pulling punches for fear of reprisal.
[i]And may I just say, "ugly bag of mostly water", that that is the coolest handle in the history of the internet.
Grey Psoda | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 11:48 pm | # [/i]
Thanks Grey, I swiped the handle from an oooold Star Trek II episode.
I wonder if it has occurred to any of the brilliant people here that if A. Williams used the mail in any way to perpetrate his little illegal scam, that is MAIL FRAUD. Oh, and by the way the FTC has certain rules concerning advertising on the radio. There is probably about a billion other rules he has broken. And why doesn't some Johny deep pockets sue the "public relations firm" and force them to settle, or be deposed.
First question..Have you, or do you know, any journalist compensated by the executive branch?
It is incredible that so many well off dem's, having seen the achilles heel of W.oe, will not bother strike.
What would Martin do?
He'd be marching. Yes, we need the petitions and the think tanks and the blog activism. But we need visibility, too.
We're going to crush our opposition. I swear by the balls of Oden. Bush will get fucked by the serrated shaft of satan!
Jezis C. Key-ryst why won't haloscan read my freaking tags!!!
No Quarter.
It wasn't always this way. I make that point often to the soft Repugs I know. I say - "you know, I understand Republicans, I respect Republicans - these people are not Republicans."
Keep in mind that if most people who voted for Bush disagree with him on major issues. The rub is they either don't know what his *actual* position is or they don't care because of the war on terra.
There is a lot of softness now that the election is over, people are finally getting tired of hearing of Americans getting killed in Iraq. Fuck them for not caring sooner but that's what we have to work with.
Did anyone notice on the Harvard conference blog - where you can leave a comment with your email and "URI". Pathetic...
I think someone needs to snap up the domain, www.wallstreeturinal.com post-haste!
People will change their minds when the shit starts happening to them.
BTW, anyone watching the Tsunami Aid telethon? Looks like Clooney shamed O'Reilly into making an appearance.
Performer of the night: Brian Wilson, singing "Love and Mercy." A member of his touring band died in the tsunami...
Maybe this belongs in another thread, but, IMHO, not fully OT
Surely, many things are responsible for the administration's push to privative social security. The one issue where the republicans cannot win according to all polls is health care. Our system simply does not work for many Americans. Managed Care and HMO's did not solve that problem.
The administration wants to say that if we only had tort reform, the system would work. This is a totally irrational argument. Certainly, no one without coverage now will be able to get it when we call the lawyers off incompetent doctors!
The best way for the republicans to head off the growing dissatisfaction with health care would be to privative Social Security, Why? Because it will be virtually impossible to have a dialog about a single-payer health plan, which more and more American's support, if the administration can convince the public that the Government could not keep its promises with Social Security!
As I believe atrios and others have posted, we are talking about one of the most successful federal programs of all time. Reasonable people can disagree, but it would be difficult to find another federal program that so fully met its objectives and has been doing to for more than 60 years.
I hope that people will consider the impact privatization of Social Security will have on all future efforts to fix the number one problem many American's now face: Health Care. This results in so much pain, suffering, and needless loss of life.
Our system simply is not rational -- that's why the rest of the industrial world does not follow our "lead." Please consider this disgraceful initiative in a larger context. If the government abandons its responsibilities to those that have been paying into the Social Security Trust Fund, it will surely continue to turn its backs on the millions that are suffering because of a dysfunctional health care system.
Did anyone notice on the Harvard conference blog, you can leave a comment with your email and "URI"... Pathetic!
Someone needs to register the domain www.wallstreeturinal.com post-haste!
As usual, TBogg nails it:
Robert Novak brings up the Kos/Jerome conflict (that doesn't really exist) but fails to compare it to his flacking the Swift Boat Liars book...when his son was the marketing director for the publisher, Regnery.
"Among the stoutest defenders of 'Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry,' the best-selling book arguing that Mr. Kerry lied about his record of service in Vietnam, is the columnist Robert Novak.
In his syndicated columns and on the CNN program 'Crossfire,' Mr. Novak has lauded the book and referred to veterans who criticize Mr. Kerry -- most notably John E. O'Neill, the book's co-author -- as 'real patriots.'
Unmentioned in Mr. Novak's columns and television appearances, however, is a personal connection he has to the book: his son, Alex Novak, is the director of marketing for its publisher, the conservative publishing house Regnery.
In a telephone interview, Robert Novak said he saw no need to disclose the link.
'I don't think it's relevant,' he said."
Begala failed to point that out to Novak, meaning...Begala is now officially Novak's bitch.
Or his Alan Colmes. Same thing.
In a telephone interview, Robert Novak said he saw no need to disclose the link.
'I don't think it's relevant,' he said."
Man, that dismissive attitude gets really tired relly fast.
IOKIYAR. Hmmm, maybe that should be a theme, too.
ugly bag:
Haloscan no likey these guys: [ ]
It only likes > and <
.
Billmon has a post comparing reports on Bush's SS agenda with quotes from Mein Kampf. Last night it was parallels from "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich".
Damn! Thanks Grey, I shoulda known better.
What's a high-tier blog?
OT: Big bombing in Irbil may have taken out both Talabani and Barzani.
It's late. I'm bailing. Peace everyone.
This might be a bit long but I wanted to cross post it here. I was having an arument over at Mat Y.'s blog with this troll Petey who kept on insisting that the question was of Kos's ethics. This was my response to him and some of the ensuing argument:
I SAW Kos's disclosure, I remember it too. I KNEW what was going down when. This is a BS diversionary tactic that Petey and the rest of the Right Wing wants to gin up to divert attention away from their very real crimes. This is not about anything to do with 'ethics'. You can't live through Whitewater and then make a claim of 'ethics' on Behalf of the press (see the popular 'The Hunting of the President' or ANY of the 100's of posts on the DailyHowler.com). There was plenty of disclosure, there is NO accountability for Bush's shills for the drug companies in This is 'Karen Ryan reporting from the WH', see the Campaign Desk on that scam. Where's the accountability on the other side, there is none. All we get is the agitprop of tool like Petey and others trolling around the web injecting poison into the body politic, just like Zephyr.
I think selling out yourself, your friends and pals is probably the first great step to a brilliant career in modern day punditry, at least for any former lefty. Ask David Hororwitz, he'd not be able to lard his fat ass for the last 2 decades w/o attacking his former allies from Ramparts and the Black Panthers (how ever brief the acquaintance). Ditto for Jole Klein of 'Anonymous' fame way back in the 90's. Remember? He told his kid who later bragged to his entire school 'My daddy's going to be rich with this book!' He was and is. Now's he's a famous pundit. See David Brock's passage from right wing hit man on his gay pals to someone running Media Matters for America. Zephyr's life was a bit boring so she decided to sell out her pals for some right wing cred. It happens all the time, but just on the left moving right, because that's where the money is. It's pretty disgusting, but also pretty damn predictable. Here we are the Bush propaganda machine is gearing up with perhaps 500 Million dollars worth of PR to phase out the most successfull social insurance plan in the history of the world, and what are we arguing about? Damn Zephyr's treachery, and if there's any moral equivalence between what Kos did legally and above board and what Armstrong did Illegally and hidden from the public. Just F*ckin' amazing. We'll never tire of playing Karl Rove's games right? And Ms. Teachout can cackle knowing she'll get some sweet payout from some big Scafie like suggar daddy for all her efforts. Amazing. And as of yet she's offered no credible defense, because There IS NONE.
============================================
Me, I'm pretty sick of this patented propaganda BS. We've been played for chumps for far too long. Folks, Kos has a Long series of posts on the issue today, all you ahve to do is care enough to Read them. I suggest you do.
Y'know, I'm starting to think a lot of these people on the right and in the media really aren't all that concerned with ethics at all!
Renee In Ohio - I agree with that diary entry. The WSJ's editorial page (which has it's own website separate from the rest of the journal) has caused major problems for the viability of the WSJ.
The obvious slant of the editorial board has caused it to be the laughing stock among those seeking realistic investment news. These days The Financial Times is eating the WSJ's lunch. The only thing the WSJ is useful for is parrot cage lining and checking to see which industries will get big money/big legislation from the Busheviks this week.
Hurrah. The last paragraph in atrios' post sums my view of the blogosphere in general. This is all (including this very post) inconsequential wind urination that has no effect on the events of the day.
I am the fist of freedom. Oh, and by the way, I spent Social Security. Congress tole' me ah could.
Squeaky Johnson is on a Kos-bashing binder over these 'payments', trying to make it a huge deal for his little lizards. He posts a disclaimer saying how he doesn't take any money to express a viewpoint, but leaves out the other possiblity: that certain people are well aware of what LGF does every day (bash Arabs, Muslims and Paliestinians) and just hit his paypal button accordingly. I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson had come neo-cons dumping tons of money his way. He seems to have given up web design entirely in favor of posting endless venom. Anyway, he HATES Kos, and this is probably why:
Little Green Footballs
Site Summary
VISITS
Total 8,744,182
Average Per Day 74,098
Average Visit Length 0:09
Last Hour 3,396
Today 54,991
This Week 518,689
Daily Kos
Site Summary
VISITS
Total 85,754,692
Average Per Day 270,251
Average Visit Length 0:05
Last Hour 10,255
Today 170,138
This Week 1,891,760
Atrios does better than the odios LGF too, particularly in total hits over time:
Eschaton
Site Summary
VISITS
Total 44,068,470
Average Per Day 81,125
Average Visit Length 0:06
Last Hour 2,353
Today 1,736
This Week 567,878
Blogs like Eschaton aren't inconsequential. Imagine going through life watching corporate media. Hearing all the GOP lies and propaganda. Knowing that the USA is led by a true believer sociopath.
You are the only one that knows this. The Horror!
Blogs make it shared nightmare.
Blogs like Eschaton aren't inconsequential.
The number one reason I got up off my ass and voted for Kerry was because of blogs like this.
Otherwise, I would have simply said "oh no difference between both parties" and then forgot to go to the polls.
WSJ reports that Graner was sentenced to 10 years in prison. Have they mentioned that two of the firms involved in the Abu Graib torture paradigm (did I say that?) have just renewed their contracts for $180 million? I'm not a subscriber, so someone will have to let me know if they've mentioned it already.
Guardian Article Here
Lizard Watcher - jebus - never mind squeaky johnson - with those numbers, it's no wonder the print media is suddenly all over blogs.
Well, I'm pretty sure this is the first exchange-rate sketch I have ever seen on SNL...
This battle for America's soul is going to end violently.
We are a violent nation. How dare anyone outside America try to run our politics....LOOK! America is forcing an election in Iraq using guns and bombs! Geeze. How dare the Iraqis resist us? We are way over there, trying to ram our politics down their throats, the ungrateful wretches.....
America is insane. Totally and completely insane. We think we can bring them on and accomplish our mission while being AWOL from reality.
This is going to end very very badly.
People seem not to think about how much influence one person can have. (not to self- dust of the compilation of MLK's writings).
Someone posted upthread about the position Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King (and before him Frederick Douglas) and a thousand others were in. We are not in that position yet but we must act as though we are.
"We should blog the Armstrong Williams story, of course. There is torture and dismantling social security and total ruination of the country that we have to blog about as well. But this is a legitimate issue for us and it's one that directly affects what we do. If at least some of us don't fight this then our side will wind up staying entertaining gadflys while the other becomes a message behemouth.
If we are trying to build something real then we'd better make ourselves heard when naive academics and members of the SCLM hold conferences and invite know nothings and those with an agenda to decide for us what ethics we should have."
digby | Email | Homepage | 01.15.05 - 10:24 pm |
Here you digby. The freepers are being cited by mainstream as credible journalists? You know Corsi helped get a letter writing campaign underway for rapist who attacked a Clinton relative to be released? You know he went on to murder and rape 2 (perhaps 3) women in hearltand flyover red state land because freeps went on a letter-writing campaign to get him freed along with help from some embedded journalists?
Well here's your moral equivolency.
Let's take the gloves off!
er..sorry, thats "Note to self, dust off MLK's writings"
We are a violent nation. How dare anyone outside America try to run our politics..
Did anybody see Jeffrey Goldberg's article in the New Yorker about Edgar Ray Killen?
Holy shit. My hair's still standing on ends from reading it.
Goldberg had guts to interview that bastard. Talk about the ability of America to produce pure unadulterated human trash.
America is insane. Totally and completely insane.
You're right.
SWR - I've had a subscription to the New Yorker the last few years but it's hard to keep up with. Was it this week?
P.s. I'd recommend the New Yorker to one and all - worth every penny - even if you can't get to all the articles.
SWR - I've had a subscription to the New Yorker the last few years but it's hard to keep up with. Was it this week?
It's the issue with the military officers training one another via the web.
Goldberg's piece is a must read. It's short but it will give you chills.
Lizard Watcher - jebus - never mind squeaky johnson - with those numbers, it's no wonder the print media is suddenly all over blogs.
Think about it. It's a marvelous synchronicity: blogs are taking revenue away from large, Republican-owned print and broadcast media, and Bush needs his agenda furthered. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.
Thanks SWR - luckily I'm afraid to throw any of them away - it's somewhere... creating quite a backlog around the bed, couch, etc. - luckily DH collects Sports Illustrated so he has the same problem at the respective end of couch and bed.
I'll grant that your vote was a consequence of blogs like eschaton. Your vote was matched and exceeded by people who don't read blogs and don't care about them. To clarify, I meant to say that no argument from a progressive blog really matters to conservative bloggers. "blogs" and "argument" to these people are not arenas for policy analysis and debate. They are just another weapon.
If all the sissies here would just stop...Oh, boo hoo, things aren't going our way. It's hard, and it looks hopeless. Too damn bad! Take a lesson from our fellow Americans of days gone by. They were enslaved. They were lynched. They were dehumanized. Yet here they are. They suffered greviously at the hands of people just like those in power today. But we are all African Americans now. And the sooner we realize this, the sooner we can overcome these souless tyrants who lord it over us all. We might want to draw on the lessons they learned the hard way--all the while never giving up hope even in the face of severe physical and mental torture, watching as people like Bush and Cheney and Gonzales practically ate their babies. Yet they got up each morning and fought on. We who are not the evil ones need each other, for only in solidarity do we stand a chance.
true wishful
one of the richest, best and brightest people to ever grace manikind's company realized that after losing his brother. He found a nation of brothers after his loss.
R.I.P. RFK, and MLK
I've taken The New Yorker since 1982. I've watched it go through a number of changes. Right now it is as good as I can remember it being. I miss the long articles on impossibly obscure subjects that it used to have. But it has become a wonderful refuge of sanity in Bush's America in the last year or so.
Apologies if anyone has said this already, but Digby's excellent-but-depressing post suggests to me the importance of liberal bloggers saying "I told you so" every chance they get. Take every Republican scandal they publicize or expose, and turn it into that same heroic bloggers-uncover-the-truth narrative that the Rathergate wankers used.
Hopefully it will be a little harder to marginalize the lefty blogs if they keep turning out to be right. So to speak. Of course, I say "hopefully", because we're still at the mercy of what the media chooses to report.
Does anyone know how to change a shop- vac from dry mode to wet mode?
And we have to call the American Nazis what they really are.
This will end very badly. Already, we are losing allies across the planet. Of all the people helping those poor tsunami survivors, we are being told to go away.
We are very unpopular.
And after one half of America sieg heiled Bush, this cold unpopularity is growing swiftly. In four years, we will probably be standing alone, watching the world dismantle our military power by denying us economic support of our industrial/military complex.
And taxes will be way up, social safety net gone, all in tatters.
This is our fate. Prepare for it. Note how, as Bush destroys SS, he and his minions tell us they will make us all millionaires.
Insane.
And Atrios: they hate you because you are a center attracting many and this hurts them, they can only herd, not attract.
Take a lesson from our fellow Americans of days gone by. They were enslaved. They were lynched. They were dehumanized. Yet here they are. They suffered greviously at the hands of people just like those in power today. But we are all African Americans now
============
What lesson is that? Sooner or later the white man will feel bad about it and set us free?
What lesson is that? Sooner or later the white man will feel bad about it and set us free?
Reality Break | Email | Homepage | 01.16.05 - 1:39 am | #
I think the lesson was that people in the past faced harder challenges than we do and still managed to "overcome".
Goldberg's piece is a must read. It's short but it will give you chills
It's the January 17 issue and the piece is in Talk of the Town. It's pretty amazing.
But the R.Crumb cartoon on the back page is excellent - the Inaugural Blues.
If you're interested in trying to restore the Fairness Doctrine, here's a site:
Link
Reality, as I see it, the lesson is that they are lying sacks of shit and will kill us and our kids as soon as look at us. Of course this time they are a little more careful to kill us indirectly through lack of access to health care, and dismantling of SS, proliferation of low wage jobs, poor public education, and severe reduction of the middle class in general. We are on our own. The stupid dems in office don't know or don't care that compromise is futile. The lesson is furthur that we must come together and define what it is we stand for, then we must effing stand for it. The lesson is even furthur that it may be painful, if we act, but especially if we don't act. Maybe it is better to go down fighting with a chance of changing things for our kids, than it is to give up and let them win by (our)default. But I'm sure I should study MLK Jr. more as his outlook is much better expressed, and is the one that I believe is the best way to proceed. I think that most don't really get how bad it is already.
"I think the lesson was that people in the past faced harder challenges than we do and still managed to "overcome".
SWR"
The problem is we are trying to avoid those hardships. Lessons learned should not have to be repeated. Right now, for the majority, we suffer no real hardship in comparison, but if this continues in the direction it seems to be going, it may make the past pale in comparison. There will be no one to have a moment of sanity, a pang of regret, an epiphany. And we keeping thinking we as this country. We hold the keys to the ability to destroy countries, societies and even civilization as whole. The Washington Post article which pushed my buttons earlier in this thread shook me up as it opened the door to seeing this president as a loose cannon, no fetters. I wonder how his radical christian base feels hearing what he said. At some point as I think about it all, I end up with a rush of vulgarity in my head that I cannot even verbalize properly.
The problem is we are trying to avoid those hardships. Lessons learned should not have to be repeated.
That's why the Jeffrey Goldberg article hit me like a ton of bricks.
The kind of pure evil that Killen represents is still very much alive and waiting its chance for a comeback.
this story was not in the US papers...hmmmmmmm...
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/sto...0501/
S00051.htm
"The Salvador Option’
The Pentagon may put Special-Forces-led assassination or kidnapping teams in Iraq"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802.../site/newsweek/
sounds like this is already happening...we can't have no stinkin UNION is Iraq...
"No Unions for Iraqi Workers
U.S. authorities keep Hussein's anti-union policies in place"
http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/...t?oid=oid:
51610
Anyone know where I can look to both verify this is true or not true as well as rebutte it?
"Dating as far back as 1862, when Lincoln was at war trying to free the slaves. Virtually every Democrat in Congress voted against eliminating slavery in the District of Colombia, and from prohibiting it in the territories."
The obvious argument is that in reality the Republican Party was closer to the Democratic Party of today and that most of these Dixiecrats left our party and joined the Republican Party after we passed civil rights legislation.
I'm trying to detemine the vote and if anyone has any other larger points to make i'd love to have them.
Steve Jandreau,
thanks for the link. passed it on to a goodly number of people.
this is how the internets works.
The Washington Post article which pushed my buttons earlier in this thread shook me up as it opened the door to seeing this president as a loose cannon, no fetters.
Could you please provide a link.
The Pentagon may put Special-Forces-led assassination or kidnapping teams in Iraq"
No Unions for Iraqi Workers
U.S. authorities keep Hussein's anti-union policies in place"
And now we know how they're going to "handle" activists in Iraq.
jesse
www.washintonpost.com
Front page First Paragraph, then read the rest.
Did anyone see this story about Ali G singing the National Anthem at a rodeo. Pretty funny.
www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/16655.html
And now we know how they're going to "handle" activists in Iraq.
--------------------
And they'd do it here too, if they thought they could get away with it.
Did anyone see this story about Ali G singing the National Anthem at a rodeo. Pretty funny.
www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/16655.html
scout prime | Email | Homepage | 01.16.05 - 2:07 am
Haven't seen that one yet. But I did see the one (as Barat) where he got a bunch of rednecks to sing the lyrics "throw the Jew down the well, so that my people can be free" at a country bar.
And they'd do it here too, if they thought they could get away with it.
Or, they'll
just use this.
I think the lesson was that people in the past faced harder challenges than we do and still managed to "overcome".
This is not about "personal" persecution of American citizens. I have no doubt there would be bravery and sacrifice and protest by many, that would equal or surpass that of our predecessors.
This is about living in the nuclear age in a connected global community and the real dangers we face, all of us, with an insane administration going wild. Powerful and destructive stuff, on a global scale.
There is a lot to fear in this new age...
gray,
My point is that what good does it do to have liberal think tanks, or good sound, rational arguments, if the media doesn't use them?
Look at the SS issue - there are plenty of liberal sources to counter the winger bushwa. Where are they? Do you see them on Sunday morning? Bush engages in egregious dissembling, lying to our young people, and there is barely a murmer in the press.
Bush is threatening to default on a fiduciary obligation of the US Government. An obligation owed to its own citizenry. Pretty damn big story if you ask me.
When was the last time you saw any major media point it out?
Look at all the energy the lefty blogs have had to spend on countering the utterly bogus smear on Kos and Jerome.
And do you think all this energy means a damn thing to the everyday consumers of media?
No. All they know is, the Republicans screwed up, but so did the Dems, so it's a wash. Next.
If we don't start owning the media, and soon, we're fucked.
Simple as that.
Watertiger,
You're welcome!
Dirk,
Yes, I know that most don't care about the facts. Heck, Freepers banned me for posting stats from www.bls.gov! But I have gotten into good e-mail debates with a few who have been mislead by the Noise Machine and they actually changed their minds.
It's not much, I admit, but it does take a few people out of the Lie Web.
"I have no doubt there would be bravery and sacrifice and protest by many, that would equal or surpass that of our predecessors."
Susan B., I think the time for the protest and sacrifice is now. We have been trying, but it is coming in fits and starts, and has been largely ineffective thus far. I do agree with you that we are fully capable, but we need a definition of what is going on, what we want, and how we will bridge the gap between the two.
Ek, is it the WaPo article with *this* gem in it?
As for perhaps the most notorious terrorist, Osama bin Laden, the administration has so far been unsuccessful in its attempt to locate the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Asked why, Bush said, "Because he's hiding."
Yah, no-one could have expected *that*... Man, those terrorists are cunning.
Did anyone see this story about Ali G singing the National Anthem at a rodeo. Pretty funny.
www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/16655.html
scout prime | Email | Homepage | 01.16.05 - 2:07 am
Haven't seen that one yet. But I did see the one (as Barat) where he got a bunch of rednecks to sing the lyrics "throw the Jew down the well, so that my people can be free" at a country bar.
Now could we please hit them with the chair? Please, now, the chair?
Hecate
I'd prefer to drop a house on them.
I'd prefer to drop a house on them.
I don't think Hecate specified that the chair couldn't be in a house.
Asked why, Bush said, "Because he's hiding."
He's gotta be the stupidest head of state ever.
I'd prefer to drop a house on them.
Bill Gates' house, if you please.
If you're gonna do it, you might as well do it right.
Eli, well okay.
As long as it's a really big house.
I've just about had enough of this bullshit.
CS, works for me.
I'm getting to where I can hardly read the news.
I think chimpy's little conversation in the WAPO is a signal that he feels debate over the war is over, never mind that 58 fucking million people voted AGAINST him, and that 53% of people now polled think the was was a mistake and a total clusterfuck.
America is insane.
From google news.
OracleSoft engulfed in pink slip cloud
It's been too waaaaaaay too long since I've had sex.
geoffrey household wrote a book. entitled rogue male. you can look it up. you can even read it.
for years many have wondered why the brits, the amerikans, refrained from extinguishing with prejudice ah. prior to 1939.
still puzzled?
fourlegsgood
America isn't insane, but a lot of its inhabitants are.
If you all haven't read this piece, it's truly incredible.
The Madness of George W. Bush: A Reflection of Our Collective Psychosis - Bush’s sickness is our own.
http://baltimorechronicle.com/
01...5PaulLevy.shtml
yo
It is not an exaggeration to say that, if you throw in the Oslo peace process, U.S. foreign policy for the last 15 years has been dominated by an effort to save Muslims - not from tsunamis, but from tyrannies, mostly their own theocratic or autocratic regimes. - Tom Friedman, truly the Nordstrom's of Muslim salvation.
German lawmakers seek European ban on Nazi insignia
60 years ago Germans would never have imagined this, eh? And to think, a spoiled British Prince set this into motion.
German lawmakers seek European ban on Nazi insignia
60 years ago Germans would never have imagined this, eh? And to think, a spoiled British Prince set this into motion.
Central Scrutinizer
==============
Thats just great. In an effort to quell the past they become exactly what they are trying to ban.
Lizard Watcher - jebus - never mind squeaky johnson - with those numbers, it's no wonder the print media is suddenly all over blogs.
Yup. And squeaky johnson is probably too busy squeaking his boyfriend's johnson. By the way is chuck johnson the catcher? He sure looks like the one to play the woman. So much hate can only come from someone that takes it in the pooper on a regular basis.
"German lawmakers seek European ban on Nazi insignia"
I do not know if this is still true or not, but in Germany there was a ban an using the Swastika on scale models and such. Basically you want to build a model tank or plane, you couldn't get the insignia that was appropriate. I imagine this went into other areas aas well.
So much hate can only come from someone that takes it in the pooper on a regular basis.
So tony, this sounds a bit like anti gay bigotry doesn’t it?
indulging one of my affections, i have been listening to some cuts in my enormous jazz collection. stan getz. chet baker.
so odd how it was that chet was selected to be the junkie. and yet, as should be well known, stan was every bit his equal as a heroin addict.
and the public bought into this fiction. as in chet baker = bad. stan getz = good.
how was that fictional characterization planted? it wasn't a black versus white thing in this instance.
how did stan become a good guy and chet become a bad guy?
i ask this because that is the essentially the question that caused me to be banned from dailykos. why was it that when i would equate john kerry with george bush, as in boner versus boner, i crossed some line. sort of like saying that stan getz was also a heroin addict.
i find that time is wonderful and horrible. yes, my assessment of john kerry has been confirmed. am i happy about being proven prophetic? not really. no happier than i was in learning that stan was a long-time junkie.
but there is a salient difference, here. in spite of being a junkie, stan made great music.
john kerry, being a boner, made only the usa go deeper into the toilet. i assume because that was the mission dictated to him by the brotherhood.
john kerry made no music. will never make any music. he is a badly-tuned bassoon. and will always be such a foul instrument.
and the party that imposed his tune on us will always be conducted by idiots and midgets.
it is time that we try to figure out how to create something new. the dnc, the dlc will never be our voice. they are just another voice of the imperium.
never forget it.
So tony, this sounds a bit like anti gay bigotry doesn’t it?
No, not at all. I ok with gay people.
But I have my issues with log cabin republicans and self hating homosexuals like andy sullivan, armstrong williams, and chuck johnson.
I really have a tough time trying to understand their incomprehensible positions, or the degree of their hypocrisy.
Thats okay albert, John Kerry is running again 2008 and the same morons are going to flock right back to him because "they just know he can win this time".
The more time I spend on things like "Kos is Armstrong Williams" is that much less time I can spend writing stuff like "Bush is a lying pissant."
susan b. anthony
That is a great and scary article. I am going to use this term sometime "malignant egophrenic"
Bush's sickness is our own.
When I read that - I almost felt goosebumps.
Some of us care, some of us don't. Depending on which camp you are in, you either sling XXX or rational facts to make your point.
But while we are doing battle with one another, Karl Rove figured out that he didn't have to convince anyone. He went straight for the (evangelical) votes.
While I firmly beleive that we must "push back" in the war of words, I'm also beginning to beleive that this may not have any effect on the final outcome.
I can't help but wonder if we need to copy Rove's playbook, and go directly for the votes ourselves. But the battle of words probably won't make it happen. "Convincing" new voters to go to the polls may be a marginal activity.
So with this said, how do we get out the vote in a massive way? I'm not sure but a few ideas would be be
1) 100 % vote by mail
2) A voting holiday
3) Colleges and universities to have no classes on election day
I wonder what Martin Luther King would be doing right now to stop this.
Whatever he tried to do, he would be labelled a "moonbat."
No, he'd be assassinated all over again.
So with this said, how do we get out the vote in a massive way?
Recession, 12-15% unemployment, $5.00 per gallon gas, sky high interest rates.....
I wonder what Martin Luther King would be doing right now to stop this.
Whatever he tried to do, he would be labelled a "moonbat."
No, he'd be assassinated all over again.
And speaking of not finding the Anthrax Terrorist:
No Conspiracy Here
cheney_usa
Thank you for posting that. I was listening to coasttocoast the other night and they were talking about the microbiologists being whacked. They were talking about the diseases that scientists enhance and also about how they can manipulate these viruses to go after a certain dna or type of people. The technology is so good, they can focus a virus on blue-eyed people, for instance.
I'm sick of progressive bloggers trying to discredit one another. Doing the neocons work for them
Thats just great. In an effort to quell the past they become exactly what they are trying to ban.
I don't know. I can see why Germany might be a little gun-shy about people running around with swastikas on.
I mean, look what happened last time.
What is the Bush equivalent of the swastika? I'm thinking those goddamned yellow ribbon thingies.
Years from now, yellow ribbons will have the same sinister conotations that the swastika does now.
And then, any reflection upon its origins ---a Tony Orlando song--- that one engages in will immediately blow out one's absurdity receptors.
What is the Bush equivalent of the swastika? I'm thinking those goddamned yellow ribbon thingies.
=================
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! Tonights award for Stupid Moonbat of the Day goes to Grey Psoda, for making what may very well be the dumbest statement uttered on the entire internet.
LOL!!!
What is the Bush equivalent of the swastika? I'm thinking those goddamned yellow ribbon thingies.
Years from now, yellow ribbons will have the same sinister conotations that the swastika does now.
===========
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!
Wow. Just WOW!! That has to be the stupidest thing I have seen printed at this website, and thats an impressive accomplishment. Congratulations!!
Update: Still laughing =D
In the meantime Armstrong Williams has been getting away with this kind of corruption for almost a decade. Read about him teaming up witn Malcom Wallop,
MALCOM WALLOP! to peddle their stuff to the tobacco industry.
http://www.prwatch.org/node/3185
There is a move in mainstream media to say that Armstrong Williams wasn't bound by any kind of ethics "because he isn't a journalist". How a person with a syndicated column printed by many allegedly real newspapers isn't a journalist isn't explained, nor is the fact that he regularly appears in the role of a journalist on TV and radio. This is an old ploy now, fill up the time or the columns with a complete whore and when he's caught say that it doesn't matter because he's "not a journalist".
And they wonder why there isn't much respect for the "news" media.
Here's a thought. Reporters who don't write commentary, whose personal oppinion we couldn't guess from their writing. Dump the "opinion journalists" except for the op-ed. Keep that to one page a day. Dump the editorials on other pages that hide behind the word "analysis". Get rid of the 24 hr. TV tabloid stations or treat them with the contempt they have earned. Twenty-four hours of right wing drivel is the best that cable will ever produce in the United States.
Deport the Aussi smut king. Don't send him to pollute yet another English speaking country. Axel Springer had more integrity than Rupert. Hell, Jerry Springer does.
As I understand it, Nazi insignia is illegal in both France and Germany. Has been since the war.
Avestus seems to be playing the role of Americas Memory tonight.
By James R. Carroll
and Michael A. Lindenberger
The Courier-Journal
Special to The C-J
Craig Williams, director of a citizen watchdog group in Madison County, said the fact that the Pentagon is not adhering to the original cleanup plan and appropriate funding is unacceptable. "We're now talking 2018 or 2020 before this is done, if this isn't changed," he said.
A new Pentagon proposal would delay the destruction of chemical weapons at the Blue Grass Army Depot. Also, the site's protection will be handled by private security and not National Guard troops.
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RICHMOND, Ky. — Citing potential risk to their community, Madison County officials yesterday denounced a plan to delay destruction of more than 500 tons of chemical weapons at the Blue Grass Army Depot.
In a related development, the National Guard has begun withdrawing troops from security duty at the site, ending a mission prompted by the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
The Guard also is withdrawing from Indiana's Newport Chemical Depot and six other chemical weapons storage sites.
The Pentagon has proposed cutting funding for the 15,500-acre depot in Kentucky to about $15million next year, from $105million.
http://www.courier-journal.com/l...s/2005/01/13ky/
B2-chemical01130-8542.html
In order for Bushco to steal Iraq's oil Bush is leaving weapons caches here inadequately guarded. Now we know why they didn't secure those stockpiles in Iraq. Not cost effective to do so. It will probably be caucasian neo-Nazis who raid them anyway, so why bother.
Now don't go getting any ideas Avestus.
Sorry about the bad edit on that last one. Go read the story, it's worth it.
albert-
art pepper as well.
as far as the chet/stan duality there must be some recognition that the gilbertos airbrushed some of the warts off through the miracle of record sales whereas chet's singing was too uncomfortably close to blossom dearie parody.
chet baker's "italian sessions" don't need to back up one step to anybody who wasn't miles davis.
So I got a call Thursday from the Jeanne Cummings, The Wall Street Journal reporter who covered the Dean campaign. By all accounts, she did a fine job -- covered all aspects of the campaign, even met the Web team and wrote a long story on their work. She was calling, she said, on behalf of some of her paper's reporters in Boston who were looking into a story about the campaign and the blogs.
She said she thought she knew what was going on, and we talked "on background" so she could "just clear things up once and for all" -- that is, not for attribution. By the end of the conversation she had confirmed what she thought -- that there was no news, that this was what she called a "dead story" -- and said that she didn't think there would be any article at all, much less one that mentioned Dean. She said that if for some reason she needed a quote she'd call me back.
Next thing I know there appears in the WSJ an article so sloppy and so inaccurate that I spent the morning trying to track Jeanne down to find out what happened. She called me back at 10:30 a.m. -- and actually apologized for the article (written by two colleagues). She said that she wouldn�t work with those reporters in the same capacity again, would only give them on-the-record quotes and assured me that she had notified her editors.
Jeanne's colleagues committed a journalistic no-no: they took her background conversation with me and made up a quote from "a Dean spokeswoman". Their fake quote had this spokeswoman apparently admitting that the bloggers were paid for promoting the campaign. They completely mischaracterized our conversation -- and Jeanne was rightly upset about it. I was, and am, too.
http://www.blogforamerica.com/
archives/005807.html#872865
Frank Rich on Armstrong Williams, Crossfire and CNN.
FRANK RICH
All the President's Newsmen
Published: January 16, 2005
ONE day after the co-host Tucker Carlson made his farewell appearance and two days after the new president of CNN made the admirable announcement that he would soon kill the program altogether, a television news miracle occurred: even as it staggered through its last nine yards to the network guillotine, "Crossfire" came up with the worst show in its fabled 23-year history.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/16/arts/
16rich.html?oref=login
Frank Rich sums up the entire media's undone job in his last sentence:
"If CNN, just under new management, wants to make amends for the sins of "Crossfire," it might dispatch some real reporters to find out just which "others" Mr. Williams is talking about and to follow his money all the way back to its source."
Our jobs are to light a fire under them and to poke around ourselves.
Maybe Harvard will get around to targeting us lowly blog commenters someday.
The media whores really hate the blogs. Make them have to leave the insider dinner party early some evenings.
Yea,it appears the Wingers and Republicans are way ahead of the game.
Simplify evere issue by repeating junk over and over; eventually you win with most of America.
The social security issue is one more example. The slow-witted Dems have once again let Bush define the issue and with the Wingerblogs and the SCLM's help the people in this once great country will buy the bullshit.
Don't know what the answer is. With a more dumbed down MTV generation emerging, can there be much hope?
Its sort of like the turd world countries trying catch up with wall street.
Anyone else just tired of the horseshit on teevee and the web?
Ain't it time to get off your ass and go monkey wrench the system?
What would the 60's "radicals" have accomplished if they had sat around all day being witty on some goddamn terminal?
go monkey wrench the system?
What would the 60's "radicals" have accomplished if they had sat around all day being witty on some goddamn terminal?
I was there. A lot more was accomplished before the monkey wrench stuff came in than after. It just gave the Republican press the ammunition they needed to get Nixon elected. Martin Luther King and the people he worked with got more done than anyone else in the 60s. Just about every major advance came out of their type of activism. It wasn't the most glamorous side of politics and has now been relegated to the Parson Weems school of "history" but the record is there under the crap.
If the blogs weren't having an effect they wouldn't be generating such an attempt to destroy or discredit them. And it's the oligarchs whores that are screaming the loudest.
What would the 60's "radicals" have accomplished if they had sat around all day being witty on some goddamn terminal?
==============
Like EPT, I was there. And what effect that made then just wouldn't happen now. It's a different world, and a world that is no longer surprised by those kind of tactics. Now they would be stuffed in a free speech zone where they could be easily ignored, and arrested if they leave it and the public would cheer the cops on. New times demand new thinking
The attempt to marginalize the blogs seems to have gained a lot of steam after the Sinclare boycott. Does anyone think that it didn't scare the rest of the Republican shills? They made good use of the Freep blogs for their boy but any sign that the left could organize itself into a boycott of a media brothel must have really shaken them.
One way that they marginalized the left in the 60s was to take the biggest, most self-centered, self-promoting jerks around the various movements and promote them as the face of leftism. They did it to liberalism in the 70s after they had disposed of the left. The various idiots who vied for the attention, coming up with increasingly stupid and violent attention-getting stunts didn't help at all. Lots of them were spoiled rich brats who had nothing to lose if the movement stopped. Some, like David Horowitz one guesses, were disappointed to find that they couldn't become the father of the revoloution and sold us out.
It worked so well for the oligarchs that they'll try it with whatever looks like it could be a danger to them.
Sure there was some marinalization, but wasn't the war effected? Wasn't blacks empowered to become part of this country. Sure we paid by the election of Nixon, but a lot was accomplished that moved the country forward in a progressive way.
I just don't know how you can wake up a complascent country to what is going on without some noise.
Sure there was some marinalization, but wasn't the war effected? Wasn't blacks empowered to become part of this country. Sure we paid by the election of Nixon, but a lot was accomplished that moved the country forward in a progressive way.
========================
Depends on what you mean by the war being affected. Once Nixon ended the draft, the protests dried up and the protester went straight to preparing to be the yuppies of the 80s. The war drug on for over another year.
"Noise" is great, but times change and new ways need to be found to make "noise". The old ways won't work anymore. Just look how effective all the anti-war protests were a couple of years back. Nobody cared, and they didn't influence a single American. Those kinds of efforts are old hat, and viewed as little more than block parties for kids to rebel at. They don't even get media coverage anymore.
A couple of good points you guys bring up, that suggests this:
Why does the movie title 'Ernest: Scared Stupid' - fit so well within this picture?
It screams volumes about the American psyche.
Here's a medium the right can't control. And it is pissing them off.
They need to throw the shit that sticks to them back to this side--and hope it sticks.
Either that, or they want to distract everyone with this sort of nonsense (Dean paid people to say good things about him. Ya? so?)so we don't focus on Social Security, the war, etc.
You're right. Ultimately, the right-wing will want to silence or censor blogs like these, based on trumped-up charges. The fascists have to be fought every step of the way.
in a case like this you hope reason will win out. you know, the truth vs. the "let us repeat it enough times and it will BECOME the truth" but for most people, and I have my suspicions why, they like someone to do their thinkin for them, and if they hear something enough, it becomes the truth for them.
her eyes -
Exactly what Ornicus said - the right wing throws the shit at the wall and sees what sticks. They start from that point.
I'm in relative agreement - this is nothing more than a distraction to the Social Security issue.
That being the case - wheres the advocates for keeping it where it stands $50 million+ for advertizing?
Oh. That's right. It doesn't exist. They're too bizy standing around with their thumbs in their asses or arguing about innane bullshit.
Morons.
hey this is a bit o/t but check it out.
bushjinx
The media is a very powerful tool. MSM is run by big business. Republicans are for big business. The logical conclusion is that it is controlled by the right. And, I can't think of any way to fix that.
I mean, what we do here, which is dispute and argue any crap they throw out is a good first step, but how to reach John Q. Public so he/she doesn't vote stupidly the next time, is beyond my scope.
You quash it, toss it in the trash and move the fuck forward. Find the manner in which to help them into their own echo chamber.
I've been kind of effective by planting little bait piles for the trolls, getting them to react and throwing them off their game. Fuck it. Why was time with them?
Psyops. It's just not for Marines anymore. LOL
Hmmm...
1. We can't have a civil discourse with the opposite party in order to resolve major issues because of their incompetence, stubborness, willingness to lie and ignore facts.
and...
2. We can't have a civil discourse amongst our own "party line" bloggers to discuss a differing viewpoint on how to approach or ignore the tactics of the right?
Is it too dark to see that we are falling into shadow?
Just asking.
DUBYA, the war probably would have ended a lot earlier if Nixon and Kissinger hadn't gotten into power. And it would have been a lot less awful. Humphrey had many shortcomings but he never would have extended the war into Cambodia. Millions of people wouldn't have gotten killed. While the media ignored the demonstrations around the Republican convention in 1968 they sensationalized those around the Democratic convention. There was enough blame to go around for that one, the Democratic establishment in Chicago first among them, but it was bad strategy for the left to help them elect Nixon.
It was almost certainly his opposition to the war that got Martin Luther King killed. He knew that it was not only going to kill off any progress in civil rights and anti-poverty struggles but that it was a moral catastrophe in itself. If he had gone along to get along he'd probably be alive today.
Nixon threw a few cookies to liberals but as Demosthenes says these were mostly to enable him to passify them. He relived a lot of the pressure on him with his draft lottery, those with high numbers suddenly became a lot less interested in demonstrating to end the war, and even more when he ended the draft itself. But the war continued. It wasn't until it became impossible to continue it that the U.S. pulled out. That was probably more due to Henry Kissinger figuring out how he could work the situation with the war ended for his own proft than anything else. He probably wanted to get the Peace Prize too.
The oligarchs are a lot more scared by continued hard work for progress than they are by monkey wrenching. That's why King was killed while some flashier figures from that era went on to sell out in the coming decades.
MSM is run by big business. That's why adopting Linux or some other opperating system seems more like a revoloutionary act.
Is this naieve of me?
That Washington Post story:
dear sweet jebus. L'état, c'est moi is in the motherfucking house.
Chimpy now thinks that he's bulletproof.
It's getting to the point when one wonders in flickering moments whether it's time for someone to test that out.
We are here. We will be shrill. Shrill is tons better than quiesent and moronic drooling.
Time is flying! The world has turned its back on us except for a few allies who try desperately to stop this madness and soon they will give up.
This madness has only one ending :WWIII and the Apocalypse. At no time in the past has a desperate, bankrupt, dying empire have access to such a weapon as the nukes and hydrogen bombs that are a million times worse than Hiroshima.
We can and might just eliminate most life forms.
Thus the real need for urgency. There is a battle for minds and hearts here, and 40% of America wants WWIII.
Reason #1008 why dems always lose:
From a WP editorial written by Michael Kinsley:
"And, yes, some of Thomas's opponents may have been as demagogic and dishonest as he was. When Anita Hill is nominated for chief justice, we can consider her qualifications."
The rest of the article is good but why do libersal always have to act like they are being fair to conservatives, when they NEVER, EVER return the favor. Its like liberals have a genetic dispostion towards weekness. It is like saying I really like George Bush as a person, but I think his policies are wrong, instead of saying he is an evil bastard trying to destroy the planet.
Any other Randy Moss fans out there? Go Vikes -- I know its been years, but I don't want to watch them loose another Superbowl, however. They disillusioned me as a child.
And what's this I read about him rubbing his butt on the goalpost. I saw and heard about the "moon" incident, did anyone else see this? I am sure fox didn't show it. Any videos?
The pack fans deserved it -- I happened to be in Green Bay the year they won the Superbowl. You should have heard the derogatory things that were said about Reggie White and the racial slurs I regularly heard. Yup, in many ways, John Madden is right - its like going back to the fifties. Not as bad in the south, but certainly not an "enlightened" community; especially if you consider everything that African American players have given them (including sacrificing their health so the locals can have a drinking bash).
Randy is not the biggest problem in the NFL, nor is he the biggest problem in sports. Those with such "moral values" that they are offended should be screaming about the lying liars that got us into Iraq and the destruction of a city that was considered the most holy in the world. Now theres a bad example for our kids that is costing them their lives.
I doubt they will win today and am sure they cannot beat Alanta. Next best thing for me it so see the Falcons win it all. There defensive quarterback was the scapegoat for the pack last year -- boy genius coach Sherman might have his merits, but he is out of his league and that bush league stunt proved it. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree...
It's important to fight back, as Atrios said so that only 60% of the people believe the bushit, instead of 85%. In addition, the blogs give the left their talking points since we don't have an organization faxing background and facts as the right wing does. Let's face it, we can't be experts in everything, so we turn to people who are to provide the background.
The other reason is history. There needs to be a record that we did not give up without a fight. It is why I am so happy that Conyers and Boxer contested the election. Yes, it was an exercise in futility, but at least it is on the record that there were irregularities concerning both elections and Bush.
Gore thought, when he OKed his defeat, this would lead to him running again, successfully.
Instead, the press doubled their attacks on him and they literally drove him out of public life. He can't dare show his face in public anymore, note how they rose up to attack him when he supported Dean.
Dean's resiliance is beacon to us all: despite the Howler Monkey press, he continues to talk to us, directly to us! He wants to talk to us and he patiently goes around America, even red America, talking to us.
The screams and uuulations of the legion of Darkness is deafening yet we can still hear his strong voice even if he has to scream to get us to hear him over the din they are making.
He is so patient. I love the man. Wish he were our president.
Here'e a way to ruin your morning - from the WaPo - via Josh Marshall.
I am now going to either drink myself silly or to church to pray.
President Bush said the public's decision to reelect him was a ratification of his approach toward Iraq and that there was no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgments in prewar planning or managing the violent aftermath.
"We had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 elections," Bush said in an interview with The Washington Post. "The American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me."
We have all heard that the government is now staffing draft boards (http://www.aberdeennews.com/mld/aberdeennews/
news/10625260.htm?template=contentModules/
printstory.jsp)
If a military draft becomes necessary, approximately 2,000 local and appeal boards throughout the nation would decide which young men in each community receive deferments, postponements or exemptions from military service, based on federal guidelines and community standards.
Guess that explains chimpy's TANG thing -- what community of the "elite" (chimpster calls them his "base") sends their kids to fight in the trenches with the socio-economically disadvantaged. Its against their "standards."
Wonder why we had this whole "memogate" BS -- the simple (and evidently legal) answer to the chimperor's military service is simply that being a "grunt" did not meet his "standards."
Bush is satisfied with his war. So are the Milleniumists.
I got a fundraising email from James Carville and the DNC. I politely pointed out that I had donated over $500 during the last election cycle and was committed to working for supporting the election of progressives. However, I informed him, the DNC would not get one red cent from me it elects another repuke-lite type as its chairman. I recommended Dean, and told them I would be watching closely.
ha ha Had a response to my 'letter to the editor from a local wing nut. Love to needle them. Of course the crazy thing distorted what I wrote with his own distortion projection:
Previous writer crossed line with comments
(wing nut's name)
I feel compelled to respond to the Jan. 10 letter to the editor by (moi). I wish The Times still printed the Tell The Times feature since that is where this letter should have been printed. (moi) sounds like a Michael Moore wannabe, and his letter simply represents another way to whine because his candidate did not win the presidential election. I'm not concerned about that. However, I became incensed at the end of his diatribe.
(moi) crossed the line when he disparaged the intentions of Americans who show their support for the brave men and women who volunteered to serve our country by displaying yellow ribbon decals on their vehicles. All Americans should show support for the men and women who serve our country in the military, whether they support the war or not. These men and women did not make the decision to go to war, but they have the courage, honor and integrity to fulfill their duty. If Luther would ask, I believe he would find many people with yellow ribbon decals on their vehicles have family serving in the military. I know we do.
I am ashamed The Times would print a letter containing the vile, sarcastic, Michael Moore-ish distortions (moi) wrote. But then, The Times put the results of the People's Choice awards in the "news" section on page 4A, instead of the "entertainment" section where it belongs.
"We had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 elections," Bush said in an interview with The Washington Post. "The American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me."
It's only an accountability moment when it's announced ahead of time, not after the fact.
Ha! Go Incog!!
He is so patient. I love the man. Wish he were our president.
Elaine Supkis
Me too and he will be so they'll probably kill him soon.
w0w - missed this yesterday...
blogs are for intelligent people...that is why a right-wing blog is an oxymoron!
you need intelligence to wade through the DEEP feces spewed by all commenters - it is a non-PC open forum akin to the days of Sophocles and Plato!!!
there are ideas and there are attitudes - blogs are what it means to be human - not stopping at grammar and who can post, and who can post what...blogs are open forums where truth and lies and sarcasm and comedy and tragedy all intertwine.
I believe the diverse voices in blogs is what gives them strength.
"dear sweet jebus. L'état, c'est moi is in the motherfucking house.
Chimpy now thinks that he's bulletproof."
I'm starting to think that Bush's really terrible legacy is going to be the degree to which he's altered the line of acceptable presidential behavior. The man himself is such an ignorant dolt that his pretentions of royalty won't help him at all - he'll continue to fuck up and demand his MBA-level lack of accountability for it.
On the other hand what he's done cannot have escaped the notice of some genuine psychopaths out there - the president can nullify the constitution, can eliminate the rule of law, can do ANYTHING and still remain loved by legions of followers and lauded by the simpering press.
I fear for the monsters which may follow in Bush's wake. The next three or four Rethug candidates are people to watch very carefully. In particular someone who careens into first place from relative obscurity.
Thanks, Atrios, for putting me in my place and explaining why we have to fight back against the BS even though it gets tiring and diverts attention from more important concerns, like pointless death and destruction in Iraq. I guess that the conclusion is that the BS ultimately can lead to pointless death.
Thanks for helping me to see the connection.
I believe the diverse voices in blogs is what gives them strength.
mogwai
This is what used to give America it's strength and why Bush and his divisive policies are making us weak.
Two parties are not enough, maybe.
I'm Gonna Join My Local Draft Board (sung to a martial, patriotic, fight-song)
I wanna join my Local Draft Board
And send the young folks off to die.
I wanna join my Local Draft Board
And see their mommies and daddies cry.
I'm gonna send those young punks off to fight Iraq.
Where everybody's waiting for 'em to attack,
If they screw up, we ship 'em home in a sack.
So I don't have to worry if they're going to come back.
I wanna join my Local Draft Board
So I can show those commies
how they gotta leave their mommies
And go fight for liberty...
(I really mean it)
Go fight for George Bush and me...
(repeat whilst marching into the induction station)
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar (aka kono
Now work on one to the tune of "Please Mr. Custer.."
Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds —
The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Huh!
Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Just replace "vietnam" with "iraq" (yeah, it screws up the rhymes) and "commie" with "muslim"
speaking of DNC fund-raising, I got a call a couple of weeks ago from the DNC on my unlisted number, seeking funds.
I listened patiently while the guy went through his whole spiel--he was talking too fast for me to hear what he was saying, exactly, but it was something about how the Republicans were threatening this and that and so how critical it was that I give more money to the DNC.
He ended his pitch with the usual request for money, something like "So, can I put you down for $xxx today?" and I said, "No, I'm not prepared to contribute at this time, and please put me on your do-not-call list."
Now normally this sort of thing would end there, but then the guy proceeded to turn into a kibitzing bunghole. First he said "yes, we are calling your number because you've contributed to us before," probably referring to the federal law against telemarketing, and I said "I know that, but now I am asking you to put me on your do-not-call list. Thanks." He then goes on to ask "why don't you want to contribute?" and I say, you don't have to know that, I just don't want to. He then launches into another two- or three-minute pitch about how if we don't fight the Republicans we're going to blah blah blah, and (while I agree in principle), I say look, I just don't want to give any money right now, okay?
And he *still* won't let it go, and continues to argue, and invokes the fear factor, saying things like "do you really want the Republicans to get control of blah blah blah?". (As far as I'm concerned, these are pretty empty threats anyway, considering how the Repubs pretty much control everything in government anyway, generally as far as the eye can see.) So then I get mad and say you know, I think because of the way you're acting, I'm not only not going to give any money to the DNC, but I've just decided to give $100 to the RNC, and if you continue to pester me further, I am going to give even more.
And here is where he should have said "I'm sorry, sir, have a good day," but instead he says "yeah but you gotta give money because blah blah blah." And so I say "okay, I've just raised it to $200 to the RNC." He continues to argue. Now he's doing it just to spite me, 'cause I'm sure he knows he's not going to get any money to me. He's basically talking my ear off, not letting me get a word in. I shout "$300! $400!" into the phone, and he's still talking about me giving him money. So I just stop talking at one point. He talks for a while longer, and then there's silence on the phone. But he won't hang up. It's become an ego thing between me and him, to see which one of us will back down and hang up first. He wants me to hang up on him. I want him to say, "Thanks for your time, sir, have a good day." But he won't. I say, "I'm not going to hang up first" and don't you know, he starts talking AGAIN about what's happening in this or that Congress seat and how I gotta pitch in to give money, and how
whoop, over the 3000 char limit.
Here's the ending:
I say, "I'm not going to hang up first" and don't you know, he starts talking AGAIN about what's happening in this or that Congress seat and how I gotta pitch in to give money, and how terrible a world it will be when Repubs own everything (to paraphrase).
Finally I say, "what was your name again?" and he tells me, again. And I say, "After I hang up, I am going to go to dailykos.com and eschaton and report exactly what happened here, and I'm going to use your name, and I'm going to inform tens of thousands of people of the way that the DNC goes about recruiting for money." For whatever reason, this seemed to hit home, because in the next breath he says "Thank you for your time, sir, have a good day" and hangs up.
I would give the name, but it's not important and I forget it anyhow. But suffice to say that this was the most irritating telemarketing call I have ever got. I was on the phone for ten full minutes grappling with this guy. He continued to make a pest of himself long after it was clear that he'd be getting no money from me. And although up to that point I'd been certainly open to giving money to the DNC in the future, I don't think I will now, knowing that there are these kinds of assholes in the ranks. Jesus, I know my little pittance that I donated for the election doesn't mean that much in the total scheme of things, but christ, I never thought it would buy me such goddamn irritation from the very party I was trying to support.
And yes, I recognize that I was acting childish on the phone as well. It was an act of road rage. Figuratively speaking, this guy cut me off and gave me the finger, and I went after him. The weird thing is, he did this even though he had one of those "How's my driving?" stickers on the back of his truck. And it was like he was employed by UPS or something. Figuratively speaking.
I never thought it would buy me such goddamn irritation from the very party I was trying to support.
Don't ever give to the Human Rights Campaign, a gay advocacy organization, I guess. They will worry you to death to give to them the rest of your life. I have to move and change my phone number now. I got a call from Carville asking me to give about 3 times in the body of the letter. We gave more than repukes this past election and for what? They don't listen to us. Center/right democrats didn't give it was the left who gave yet the DNC and DLC want to move center/right.
call = email
I'm late to this discussion as always, but it's given me time to read August's clarification to Atrios's post.
I have to say I agree with August. Look, they own the echo chamber - and they're getting more brazen all the time. The only thing that can be done is ridicule. Sheer goddamn ridicule. And to counter their snark with our reality-based ridicule. If they say Al Gore invented the Internet, we could say well he didn't say that and he did secure funding for the Web or it might have died under the hapless Bush I, but what's the point? Reason doesn't work. So we just say ha ha ha well, and Bush doesn't even know what the Internet is, he calls it the Internets! What a fucking moron! And he said "Is our children learning!" And crawled around on the ground looking for WMD's under his bed! He thought they were under his own bed! (For all I know he really did think he could find them there.)
Hey, two can play at this game.
And it goes nicely with my new program of torturing Dominionists by talking to them about scripture until they have to disavow one part of the Bible or another contradictory one (in front of a group of people, ALWAYS). I'm at the point in life where I don't have to care what people think of me and someone has to do this dirty work.
I missed the 60s, but from reading about the decade it seems that what made protest effective then was the way they held the entire establishment culture up to ridicule and the establishment culture, worried about the bottom line, tried desperately to be "relevant". Funny how often that word pops up in reading about that decade, almost certainly because so many shouldabeens felt irrelevant. (Joan Didion has a great line about the Dick Cheneys of the world being lost in the 60s in one of her essays in the White Album: "It was supposed to be their time. It wasn't.")
That IS the decade Dick Cheney and his band of Dour Cronies are fighting still, isn't it?
I think this is the "elitism" they're always going on about. The elitism of the clueful tolerant against the hateful stupids. Well, as the punks said long ago, "we tried peace and love and look where that got us. Now we'll use hate." Tolerant of idiots no more. What Jon Stewart did to Tucker needs to be done to all of them.
swiffer - actually, the "elitism" they rant about is that some of us have brains and know how to use them. They aren't trying to turn the clock back to the 1950s, or even the McKinley era - they're trying to overturn the Enlightenment. Stupid people have always hated smart people, for "making" them feel stupid. Bush is their revenge. And in true stupid fashion, they don't care that Bush is screwing them, because he's screwing the smart people too, which is their goal.
I'm with you though, on throwing scripture back at the fundies. Whenever I catch one of them ranting about gays or the like, my favorite thing to say is, "wow, your lack of faith in the God you profess to follow is really appalling." Which provokes the intended reaction of foaming at the mouth and protestations of how that isn't true, to which I always reply that "if you really had faith in God, you would at least TRUST HIM to deal with whatever sins others commit - you wouldn't feel the need to do his job for him. Don't you think God is insulted by your very clear insinuation that he isn't capable of judging and punishing sin?" That's usually the end of the conversation. Sometimes it goes a bit further with recitations of scripture "proving" that God hates fags, which I counter by reciting scripture proving that he hates liars, gluttons, envy, etc., and for some reason they don't seem too concerned about punishing those sins on his behalf, probably because they are guilty of a few of them themselves. And wrap up by saying their lack of concern over enforcing God's will on these other transgressions more or less proves that they are using God to justify bigotry against people they fear, which must be an even bigger sin than being gay.
I'm sure it doesn't change many minds, but it sure is fun.
If dems dont like the media, they should buy the media. CNN anybody? Washington Post?
In one essential point the battle is very close to lost. I am referring to the use of the appellation (if appellation is the word I want, and spelled correctly, to boot) of ideas and programs as "left". The "left" has moved so far to the right, it now designates things which used to be just "the American way". After all, is anybody here calling for the nationalisation of industries? A government supplied minimum stipend? A major re-distribution of property? That's what "left" means to me. Since when is adhering to the Constitution and the laws of the land "left"?
The ideas and programs of the Democrats are the "traditional values" of Americans. Separating church and state is "leftist"? Equal rights for all citizens is a product of the left wing?
The Repubs have a far right agenda.
The term "left" has a teriible taint attached to it, and should be abandoned. And besides t'aint true.
" The term "left" has a teriible taint attached to it, and should be abandoned. "
Oh, yeah - MUSTN'T offend the neo-Nazi fucktards on the other side.
I'm sorry but to me, "left" represents everything progressive, liberal and caring.
The right, on the other hand, represents fascism, an "I've-got-mine-fuck-you" attitude, mean-spiritedness and hatred of everyone who they deem "different."
"Terrible taint" - yeah, put there by the wingnuts on the right.
Fuck them!
"I really think it's time for a few people on the left to say 'fuckit' and embrace lying, smearing and figuratively nuking the turd volcano of the right."
I agree. You cannot play nice with the other side, so it's time to get down and get dirty, just like them do.
Not admirable, but it seems the only way to stop these assholes!
Sorry, just like THEY do.
I'm even starting to TALK like Bush!
We're dealing with a cult mindset. We can use all the Lakoffian framing we want, it won't help till we realize that our fellow Americans have been absorbed into a cultic mindset.
This took a couple of decades to do, but it has happened.
All the truth and proof of the truth is meaningless to them because in their minds you are attacking the cult. They must defend the cult, and in particular the "leader" of the cult. That is why the first bad word about Bush, their minds shut down. That is what labeling us "Bush Hater's" was all about, protecting the cult leader at all costs.
Try studying Moon's cult. The similarities in rationalizing wrongdoing is amazing.
Moon's cult calls it "heavenly deception" - lying to save the world from the evil you have been TRAINED to fear.
I wish I was kidding.
"the "elitism" they rant about is that some of us have brains and know how to use them. They aren't trying to turn the clock back to the 1950s, or even the McKinley era - they're trying to overturn the Enlightenment. Stupid people have always hated smart people, for "making" them feel stupid. Bush is their revenge."
Well put - and the God's honest truth!
The sick thing is that these wingnuts are PROUD to be stupid - they consider being smart "unMURKAN."
"All Americans should show support for the men and women who serve our country in the military, whether they support the war or not."
Fuck you!
(God, I LOVE how these idiots think they have the right to tell the rest of us what we "should" do and how we "should" act!)
Who are the "brilliant women with the most clever minds for pop culture" who "force themselves to act stoopid for the sake of convincing themselves of the infallibility of recent foreign policy."???
Brittany Spears??
Who could ever forget TWITney's political admonishment in "Fahrenheit 911"?
Just what we need, folks: political advice from a white trash whore who thinks CANADA is an "overseas country."
Jennifer 01.16.05 - 10:55 am
-
One nice post there, Jennifer.
I'll try it for sure. If I know the person afterward I'm gonna send them
HERE
With instructions to play "DVD" and when they get it running click on "Holy Homosexuals."
BTW, Jennifer, do you really think there are stupid people out there?
One thing is for sure, we can't say they don't support the their president.
hah
Uh, I think you blogger prima donnas ought to go shopping for a new hat -- a much larger one, your heads are swelling way beyond recognition. Who gives a rat's ass what anybody thinks Kos did or didn't do? I assure you, my 78 year old mother will NOT be discussing it at her afternoon tea. The real reason you and the others are making this an issue is because you think it turns the national spotlight on you and enhances your celebrity. Y'all ain't reached Madonnahood yet. Get a life.
Thank you August and Atrios for saying it right. About rational discourse. That's the key.
Remember, buy nothing on January 20.
Jesus. What a snakepit. Hey, kids, kos lied. He said all he was doing was "technical assistance" when in fact he was being paid to shill for Dean.
Hey, whatever. By the way, there is and will continute to be much loud laughter in the world over the way you folks are yelling about how you were too well-mannered, honest, and ethical to win the election. Your manners as displayed in this discussion speak for themselves; you're one step below farm animals. You think you're "smart"? Only if "intelligence" is defined as a willingness to repeat talking points well beyond the point of numbness, with arbitrary obscenities inserted for emphasis. Ethics? Heh heh heh.
Some poor kid remarks above, "I really think it's time for a few people on the left to say 'fuckit' and embrace lying, smearing..."
"A few"? Yes. Couldn't have said it better. It's time to reduce the number from "virtually all" to only "a few". We'd like a viable, credible opposition, please.
There aren't enough grad students and tenured professors of Marxist gender studies to elect a dogcatcher. Your real electoral base is the urban working class and certain ethnic/racial minorities. That's why you did well in cities in November while (ask Ruy Teixeira) losing among smart, well-educated, competent people (those with incomes greater than US$50k). Well, there are powerful streams of religiosity and cultural conservatism among blue-colloar and minority folks, not to mention patriotism. The unions are keeping you alive. That's it. That's all you've got. You're seriously vulnerable and you're working to alienate the last meaningful base of support you've got.
Sweet dreams, kids. Nice knowin' ya.
You could, of course, choose to wake up, smell the coffee, and start offering the American people something worth voting for.
Terry C says, above "Not admirable, but it seems the only way to stop these assholes!", in advising that you all be even *more* dishonest, unethical, and ill-mannered.
In the very next post, noodles suggests the following: "Try studying Moon's cult. The similarities in rationalizing wrongdoing is [sic] amazing.
Moon's cult calls it 'heavenly deception' - lying to save the world from the evil you have been TRAINED to fear."
Read those both again, carefully. Hint: The similarity in rationalizing wrongdoing is amazing indeed.
The repulsive slug, Lava whines: "Can't we dig some links between right wing bloggers and the rethug party? Let them answer the accusations for a change?"...
No you can't be we can show how asinine lefite/liberal and parasitice scum that supported the PARTY OF THE SEDITIOUS & SLEAZY has always been closely aligned with the enemies of the U.S.
After all just look at TREASONOUS, LIBERAL, HYPOCRITICAL SWINE KERRY that you fools tried to foist off on the rest of the country...
PARTY OF THE SEDITIOUS & SLEAZY
It takes less effort to just type "Republicans" instead of that.
always been closely aligned with the enemies of the U.S.
Like George W. Bush's grandfather, who was a Nazi collaborator. The rotten apple doesn't fall far from the poisonous tree...
banning the swastika itself it the most stupid, useless, ignorant, counterproductive, German and, yes, Nazi-like thing they can do. Fucking retards urinate on numerous religions while making some stupid twenty-year-old feel like a martyr, and meanwhile, who requires a swastika to commit violence or graffitti? Gee, guess racism is over with because someone forbade a symbol.
The truth doesn't matter to them. That is, community and society and their neighbors and the US and the world for that matter means less to them than their desire to control and dominate. They're willing to kill hundreds of thousands of people without thought and you think "truth" means something?
GWB idiot is not your enemy; he doesn't even matter. Hitler didn't run the ovens – average Germans did. And they did it willingly. The people you pass everyday on the highway with the "W" stickers on their cars are the people who would just as soon see you disappear than have to consider your humanity.
When you’re declared an “enemy combatant” for your political beliefs do you think these folks, your friends and neighbors and wingnut brother-in-law are going to stand up for you? Fuck no they’re not. They already know the score. They may be weak and stupid and faithless but they know the safety of siding with power. It’ s the intellectuals who believe in reason. The wingnuts intuitively understand that there are ins and outs and don’t get caught on the wrong side of the line because the ovens are going to be built big enough for everyone this time.
Fair warning.
Whew. Time to lie down with a cold compress on your forehead. Then take a double dose of the medicine you take to calm down. George Orwell said there was nothing so stupid that an intellectual wouldn't believe. "Enemy combatants" are people with weapons. The only thing to do with them is shoot them down.
When you murder civilians in restaurants, fire at soldiers from Mosques, stockpile ammunition in hospitals, fire at soldiers while you hide behind women and children, and target election officials and aid workers you become an illegal combatant. At that point, the Geneva convention applies by its absence of protection for you. People who decide to be illegal combatants deserve torture if we can give it to them, and at the least, sudden death.
If you say "Bush is Hitler" a few hundred times, you get no credibility.
The good news, Atrios, the country agrees that you are nuts, and Bush should run the country.
Everyone knows it. Why are we even bothering trying to legitimately counter it? It's bullshit, we all know it's bullshit, the right-wingers all know it's bullshit.
Depends on who he means by 'everyone.' Maybe the right wing talking heads know it, maybe the chattering classes/media savvy types know it. But lots of people don't have access to blogs, read one local paper if that, and get most of their information from the 6:00 network "news". Just look at the studies that came out in the last year showing how radically misinformed a lot of Americans are. Pushback matters. It creates the momentum necessary to push information into popular circulation.
nascardaughter: Remember 50% of the uninformed are Democrats. Why do you assume the uninformed are all Bush voters?
Too many progressives presume that, because WE enter discussions in good faith, that the right-wing does so as well. It ain't so.
They are not engaged in "discussion".
They are engaged in PROPAGANDA.
They don't care whether it's true, false or anywhere in between. They only care that it's USEFUL in their endless war against all non-party-approved opinions. That's the ugly truth, and the sooner we wise up to it, the better.
MDN
"Enemy combatants" are whatever GWB says they are Jerry. Thousands of Jews were sent to their deaths because they believed it couldn't happen to them.
It did happen to them.
Again, the truth is meaningless. Morality is meaningless. Honor is meaningless. It's about power and nothing else - absolutely nothing.
Fight or die. You decide.
nascardaughter: Remember 50% of the uninformed are Democrats. Why do you assume the uninformed are all Bush voters?
Nope. A recent study found that Bush voters were much more likely to be misinformed on, for example, whether Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11, whether WMD had been found in Iraq, and whether there was a connection between Hussein's government and al-Qaeda.
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