I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Hey Hey Hey
I smell a platform war coming on.
This is remarkably similar to what I've been going through with my POS Dell laptop. I've wasted more time and money trying to get this sucker straightened out than I care to think about. Bastards.
Hey, I built mine.
4xs
but who is counting?
I will refrain from the urge to tell him he should have gotten a Mac.
Oops!
John,
For the life of me I have never understood why anyone would pay that kind of money for a computer. I have ALWAYS used generic computers of one sort or another. A couple of reasons: if a part fails, you simply buy a new one and slap it in. Secondly, there are no proprietary software issues. I think this is probably the source of your problem. Companies like Compaq and Sony think they are giving you something with their machine-specific software but in reality you can find other software that will do the job better and cheaper. At someone's suggestion I made knoppix disk and it now resides near my computer. I have not tried it yet, but it sounds like a good idea. Perhaps you should try this before panicking. It is self-booting version of Linux. With this you should be able to reference the stored data (such as Christmas pictures) and retrieve the same. Another word of caution: as a former comptuter consultant, I make back-ups everytime I add something. CDRs are about $.20 now and it only takes a little time to do the back up of the directories where you have changed things. Remember the hard disk is a physical device that will fail. It is only a matter of when.
Platform wars!!
As he suggested, I wrote from the Mac perspective.
Unfortunately, I've recently had to install VirtualPC and Windows so I could run some essential software on my Mac. Literally dozens of security fixes on every component.
Filkertom: See above. 
My next machine will be built by yours truly.
The new computer comes with an implied warranty of merchantability (that guarantees it can be used for its normal purposes). The warranty does not have to be written. If the new computer never worked right, the buyer should be able to return the computer for a new one or get a refund. There may be other warranties involved too.
DWD -- I don't follow that blog. Is it, by chance, a laptop? Because those are a lot harder to get replacement parts for.
Oh, I know what he is going through. I plunked down some decent money for a Toshiba laptop one year ago -- and about 2 months out of the box it started overheating and would shut right down. I sent it back -- they installed a new fan and a hard drive. Two months later - same thing. I send it back - they install a new fan and hardrive.
Guess what. The POS is doing the same thing.
And, my warranty has expired. So I am back to using my 6 year old Gateway laptop.
Sonyaction.com needs to be purchased.
Sony's North American technical support is housed in a bunker about 10 miles east of me. Their staff consists chiefly of psychotic misanthropes and immesurably bitter people that have failed at everything else in life. When there were other technical jobs to be had in the area, anyone not fitting the above categories would bail out of Sony within six months to find other work. Now they just flee the area, which only serves to deplete the population of the technically proficient even more, hence the poor quality of those remaining at Sony.
By the way, Sony support people are strongly encouraged not to fix problems, but to almost force the customer, through a low-key contest of wills, to use the "format-and-recover CD" to completely wipe and reinstall their system image. Probably two-thirds of the issues could be resolved in ten minutes or fewer of minor adjustments/changes, but format-and-recover is the prime directive.
He needs to go over the heads of the customer support people and call their customer relations or public relations dept. Mr. Karin had a problem with the transmission in a Mitsubishi, he couldn't get satisfaction from the dealership. He asked if there was someone higher up he could talk to, and they said, sort of facetiously, well, you can call Tokyo. So he DID call Mitsubishi in Japan, and the next day the dealer was falling all over himself to give us a new vehicle.
This is a true story.
No way I'm writing Sony -- this is his own damn fault.
Losing data is never the machine's fault -- BACK IT UP, DUMBASS!!!
As for paying $2000 for a computer -- only a Mac is worth that.
If you're going to have a computer, you really have two choices.
(1) Spend a few weeks learning the basics and build your own Windows or Linux box for less than $700.
(2) Spend a load of money and get a Mac.
People who do anything else are fools.
Filkertom, I am not sure. To tell the truth I don't think that much about laptops for that reason. If it is, then he should have the thing replace for free. Obviously something is screwed up and more recovery disks will not do it.
If I were him, I would just get a generic version of the OS and go from there. My experience with these proprietary programs is that they are a source of great evil.
I am pretty luck in my situation though, I have a friend who is top notch EE. If it don't work, he will MAKE it work. Guaranteed.
DWD -- roger that. I try to carefully screen everything that gets slapped on my hard drive (which is why I don't have SP2, for instance). And, having spent many years nursing an Amiga 4000 before I switched to PC, and doing over-the-phone tech for my lady friend's Mac, I've settled nicely into a whatever-you-want-as-long-as-it-works-and-isn't-
too-expensive state of mind.
blecht,
do you back up every night?
Platform wars!!
As he suggested, I wrote from the Mac perspective.
OMG -- is this what we are going to do today? The rest of the world kind of decided this a long time ago... but go ahead if you must.
Here is a great product review for the newest member of the Mac line:
http://
www.sidewalkbubblegum.com...eviewsjuly.html
Wow. It's true. Apple doesn't have a service department because they don't need one.
Amazing.
DWD, I'd second everything you said and add that I have a good tower, a laptop and an older tower. I keep backups for each of the other systems on each machine, including the drivers for each component. I just use xcopy bat files for moving most of the stuff, but I've never lost anything except time due to a drive crash. I'm always up and running on at least two systems. I also agree that buying or building generics is the best way to go for PC's. I had to convert an eMachine from XP Home to Windows 2000 Pro and it sucked trying to get all the drivers -- eMachine won't support that model with 2K Pro because they didn't plan on it ever being used with it. It's been fine, by the way, for more than two years now.
Anyway, the upshot is that you'll just get a bunch of garbage installed that you probably don't want, will get crappy support, and won't get any better PC than if you get a generic.
IMHO, of course.
Expecting every user to know proper sys/network admin procedure is like expecting every driver to be a mechanic, it ain't happenin'.
Karin: You have stated one of the great truths of our world. In any hierarchical organization, power flows from the top down. Trying to access the layers to find someone in a position to dictate is a waste of time and energy. If you are dealing with any organization, be certain the person you are dealing with actually has the "Power" to address the problem. (They will not tell you, BTW. That is what makes it imperitive that you do not spend too much time waiting for a response. If they cannot solve the problem then and there, assume they have to ask someone. If they have to ask, skip the middleman and go to the seat of power.)
Blecht -- I kind of agree with you; backups are not a habit everyone gets into, and certainly more people should. But Sony should be taking every step to make the customer happy. It is a $2,000 appliance, after all. Just because it's a computer, and people aren't necessarily computer literate, doesn't justify a blow-off.
Sorry to say it, but when you play ball with the "big boys" like Sony, they just don't give a damn about any one customer. Aren't these the same people that told us their CD technology would be so much better than records -- and that the cost would go down to a bucik, that we should all scrap our record players, so that we could enjoy cheap, perpetual music? LOL
Sony did end up paying a small, inconsequential fine for their monopolistic pricing policies -- but the cost of recorded music still never came down. Just another "cost of business."
An unhappy Sony customer? Obviously, its just another "cost of doing business" to them. Not really a lot of integrity with that organization.
Everything we've ever had from Sony from home stereo components through boomboxs to the good ol' Walkman, with the exception a pair of car speakers, looked good, performed phenomenally and broke within 2 years at the absolute outside.
So I don't buy Sony anymore. A shame, their laptops look good and no doubt perform...sigh.
Atrios,
If it's important, I backup every minute.
I have my family photos backed up on a CD-RW disk until its full, then I burn them onto a CD-R.
The videos I have are a little trickier -- I make sure I don't erase my miniDV tapes until I've gone through the whole process to get the movies to DVD.
Documents go onto a mail server and a jump drive until I can get them burned onto a CD-R.
(If you guessed that learned to do all this the hard way -- through losing some data by being a dumbass and not backing up my data -- you're correct.)
--Blecht
Wow. It's true. Apple doesn't have a service department because they don't need one.
Nope - not when you have less than 5% of the software market, no one wants to stock your product (so you sell it direct), and the software companies have quit writing programs for your platform. Service? Who needs it!
PC vs. Mac?
C'mon can't we go back to fighting our usual battle of
Good vs. Evil?
anyone who spends $2000 on a windows machine is an idiot. there is no cure for dumb.
The best product Sony makes is TV's.
I need some coffee -- It's still early here on the west coast.
Here I am sounding all high and mighty -- not my intention.
Sorry for the tone of my post ...
/me is not a troll!
What olaf said, doubled.
Atrios, Just get in the habit of doing it. You do not have to save every disk and in your situation, you could just use a multisession CDR or a CDRW to save the changes you make to the page each day. Once you start doing it, it is not hard.
I also have multiple computers with duplicated information. My kid's computers all have my essential information loaded in. I also keep backup copies both here and at my classroom. It is a hard lesson, but one that everyone will go through at one time or another.
I hate to tell the Mac Heads, but Apple is no better. My G4 Powerbook's optical drive crapped out about seven months after I bought it. Apple replaced the drive. Which then crapped out a month later. Apple replaced that drive. Which crapped out a couple months later. At this point, I demanded a new machine. Three drives replaced in the first 13 months? Should a consumer put up with that?? Apple refused. They replaced that THIRD drive instead. I still demanded a new machine, but they steadfastly refused, saying they fixed the problem. Needless to say, I don't trust that drive, so I bought an external CD/DVD drive. And now just bought a brand new G5. Which has crashing fan revving problems less than two weeks out of the box. I won't go into the other problem...but now I ain't gonna mess around with this machine and I'm demanding a different one.
Apple is no different from Dell. Expensive crap. Or as another disgruntled G5 owner with the same revving fans crashing noted in the Apple discussion forum, what to do with a $2000 hair dryer?
Apple thinks different? Feh. And uses bad grammar, to boot.
Olaf -- oh, it can make sense to spend even more. If you want to get one of the hand-crafted gaming machines from Alienware, Falcon Northwest, Voodoo, or one of those companies. But those are all absolute top-of-the-line parts tweaked to within an inch of their lives, as well as modded and painted cases and serious warranties and tech support.
That said, unless you absolutely need the beefiest gaming computer or multimedia workstation available, most everyone can get away with a lot less machine.
Losing data is never the machine's fault -- BACK IT UP, DUMBASS!!!
=======================
Mr. QuiltLady is one the kindest, most gentle people on the face of the earth. In 35 yrs of living together, I have heard him raise his voice less than a dozen times.
Once was to an employee who did not back up his work. Literally, I left the room, and tiptoed around him for the rest of the day. And I always back up everything.
What is it with you computer people.
I have a high end Dell laptop (bought through work) that I have had for less than 1.5 years and I'm on my 3rd motherboard.
Luckily anything we buy from Dell comes with the gold extended service plan - I can do anything I want to it for 4 years and they have to come to my office and fix it.
I've heard many stories about OSX machines crashing for no good reason.
It's all about what each user is comfortable with.
I'd have to disagree about the "$2K = idiot" argument, at least as a flat assertion. Depending on the requirements of the system, I think I could find a way to spend well over that. Of course, by then we're talking major processing power or speed and storage. High-end engineering or film-editing and animation computers can get up there. And so can the game machines, I suppose, though that might take you back to the "idiot" side of the equation.
A new PC should not be crashing. It should not require constant maintenance. You cannot expect all your customers to be tech whizzes.
And mr.bill, I disagree with you. Companies do care about bad word of mouth.
By the way, Sony support people are strongly encouraged not to fix problems,
My experience working with tech support people of any stripe, at any company, is that the support folks basically diagnose any and every problem customer has as a nail, thus they prescribe the same hammer to fix just about anything you call in to report.
The best resource I've ever found is consulting with my colleagues in the IT department.
It pays to be on good terms with those folks - for a myriad of reasons.
backing turns out to be easy and is essential. dont wait for the disaster.
just started that safeguard with an external drive that costs less than $120 bucks. In fact, it is running now. Real problem with so many electronic organizations is the incredibly long wait times to get to service on phone and the fact that written manuals are in geek speak.
the only dial-in service I have encountered that you actually get through to fast and get answers is Linksys.
it's easy to spend 2 grand if you get a high end monitor and a few extras.
I believe olaf was referring to the average user, not companies or film/audio professionals.
oh geez now some of you people are pissing all over macs, I gotta respond:
AppleCare is one of the best warranty programs EVAH.
You take in your ailing computer to the Apple Store, they determine what the problem is, they box it up and send it in. Usually you have your machine back in a week.
No interrogation, no endless runarounds, no BS.
You dropped your iBook? THEY WILL FIX IT.
I'm sure someone out there has had a bad experience with AppleCare - hell, I have - but generally speaking, you will never ever have an experience like John has with AppleCare.
And of course I don't have to worry about virii, any reasonably intelligent non-geek can learn to diagnose and fix most non-critical issues (good luck trying to figure out what Windows error messages mean!), and OS X is much, much more stable than Windows is or will ever be.
Plus when you buy a Mac you are not giving money to the GOP-loving Microsoft.
Finally I wish we could all be as perfect as the arrogant prick Mr. Blecht. Sounds like Sony's tech support is full of Blechts.
A,
your wish list includes a bigboy apple; you changing that?
i would never buy a brand name windows machine. if i were going to spend $2000 for something really powerful i could have it custom made for that kind of money.
I've heard many stories about OSX machines crashing for no good reason.
Probably because they never heard of 'repairing permissions'.
If you never (or infrequently) repair permissions in OS X, yes you can get screwy, sometimes machine-crippling behavior.
Repairing permissions is very easy, as easy as doing a disk defrag on a PC.
Stinky, you're absolutely right, although it's more the other way round. You don't want to get on our bad side. I can tell you that when we get an obnoxious clerk, we serve the clerk just as professionally as we can, but when the new computers get rolled out, guess who gets the last one in that department... If there are three urgent calls, and one from the jerk clerk, guess which one gets the last response...
Otherwise, we'd rather help our staff get their computers working right because it cuts down on our work too. If we can get the clerks to understand why they keep corrupting that particular file, then we don't have to keep restoring the damned thing. And so on.
4 weeks out of the box?
He should get his head out of his ass and take it back for a refund.
Some people want to click a button and get an out of the box appliance that works. Some people want to save some money and mess around. To each his/her own.
something about computers brings out the self-righteous wanker in everyone...
Renato, would you still be so enamoured of Apple if they wouldn't replace your new Powerbook after THREE optical drives crapped out in 13 months? Or your brand new G5 whiz bang crashes every time you put it to sleep? Or you get weird messages about "USB Over Current Notice" that even the Apple Care specialist had never heard of?
Apple doesn't think different. They just use bad grammar.
Ba'al recommends placing the computer on an altar in a high place and setting it on fire.
Nah, we're talking professionals who know their stuff. Believe me, OSX is no more of a "second coming" than XP is.
As I previously stated, it's all about what a user is comfortable with and what software is available.
As a former Dell tech support serf, I can tell ya that the only thing any of these mfrs. want is to get you off the phone. Fixing the computer is secondary, if it enters into the picture at all. John just got techs that sucked to help him with his problems. Ya can't fix a hardware problem by blowing out and reinstalling the software. If re-seating his memory didn't fix it(most likely diagnosis), he should run the HDD diagnostics from his hard drive mfr. to check that out. If that isn't the problem, then ya go to the next step, yanking everything but the video card, and so on. His first tech call they would have had him do the re-install of software (restore disks),when that didn't fix it, you move on to the next step, diagnosing the hardware problem.
I have a friend who has a little shop that does most of its business replacing hard drives and power supplies from compaqs, hps, and dells. The cheap power supplies eventually kill the drives. He always has a load of machines in the shop with linux on them as well. Macs are not immune to virii, I have been getting several emails from a friend with some kind of worm virus, keeps sending me viral attachments. Not sure how he got it, but its real.
Sony should just replace this guys box, that's all there is to it. Hardware problems can be notoriously hard to resolve.
"USB Over Current Notice"
I'm a tech who works at a computer school, and I've never even heard of this issue.
Quiltlady, No more firsting for a while, have to participate in the world for a while. Sucks, but necessary.
Honestly, I can live anyplace that has a good, reliable high speed connection and a decent grocery. . . .
"some people want to save money and mess around."
i never mess around with my computer. it was made by a guy in my neighborhood who builds them in his garage. if anything goes wrong he fixes it for free. it cost $375.
Ba'al- I don't think burning plastic gives off a "pleasing aroma" as such. At least I think it's nasty.
BlakNo1
The offering in this case is to YHWH.
Ba'al knows better.
BlakNo1--
"USB Over Current Notice"
I'm a tech who works at a computer school, and I've never even heard of this issue.
Neither did the "specialist" at Apple. And it's Apple's goddamned message!
Atrios,
I agree that people buy the Sonys and such as a push-button turn-key system, and that's the way they're marketed, but that's misleading and, again IMHO, a mistake that both users and support people are having to deal with. There ain't no such thing in the computer world and the more Microsoft tries to dumb down things to where it will work for the unenlightened, the more they break it for the rest of us. (See the Bob interface for an example.)
I've been doing computers since the Commodore 64 and am now a network admin, but there's still ways to break machines that I haven't seen before. Recently a clerk managed to corrupt the Tahoma font on her system and I never did figure out how to get Windows XP to turn loose of it. Wound up doing a complete reinstall.
As Han Solo put it, "This ain't like crop dusting, boy!"
Bottom line- No matter what the product is, if you spend that kind of money, it should work. If it doesn't, it should be replaced with a working model or a full refund plus an apology.
Nice to see the lack of an endless, nasty platform war. I agree with Atrios, whatever works for you. This guy has something that doesn't work and should be treated like a customer, whether it's a computer or a toaster!
Off to work, catch ya'll later...
i wouldn't accept a replacement. i would just make them return my money.
So, Atrios, bottom line: have everyone tell Apple they suck. Please. Thanks.
1st computer had 4 megs ram.I upgraded to 6..wow
now I run a gig.
Once I had to send in an iBook four, yes, four times to get it fixed because every time it was sent back something else was wrong.
You know what? Anytime you rely on any company's warranty program it's a roll of the dice. I am glad that Apple was at least not telling me that it was all my fault, giving me the endless tech support runaround, and generally refusing to fix it. They did, eventually, fix it right. At least I was getting somewhere with them!
As I wrote, I have had other occasions -yes more than one - where it was quite obvious that I was the one who damaged the computer. Apple fixed it (right, the first time), no questions asked!!!
I'm not saying Apple is perfect and I'm sorry you had issues with your optical drives. There are indeed instances where Apple has been ingloriously stubborn about certain issues. On the whole, I think they definitely try to do the right thing. They HAVE to! Look at the iPod battery issue for instance.
I had an experience with Nikon where it took 6 months to get a digital camera fixed. In the end they replaced it with a brand new, later model version of the original camera. Did it suck having to go through that experience, which took 3 pages to explain to the person who finally resolved the issue? Yeah. Did I remain patient, persistent and refuse to abuse every person I came in contact with at Nikon? Yeah. I kept at it until I found someone who cared about doing the right thing and had the authority to take care of matters.
There is a HUGE difference between companies that try to do the right thing (and occasionally fail), and those that just don't give a shit about customer support. I completely reject the notion that Apple is as uncaring as, say, Sony in this particular instance. One bad experience does not define the experience of the entire universe.
That USB over-current error probably indicates a hardware problem that might fry the peripheral or the USB bus, from what little I know of it.
OT:
The Arnold disease is starting national fundraising to fund his proposition campaigns in CA, including ending pensions for stateworkers and giving GOPs an edge in redistricting. LATimes lead story.
BlakNo1,
I stumped my computer tech yesterday with some sort of Buffer Violation notice in Dreamweaver.
Heh. I was oddly proud.
Will Apple also replace a dropped ipod, no questions asked?
Report from badag. Who has time to vote when there is no water!
Girl Blog from Iraq... let's talk war, politics and occupation.
Thursday, January 27, 2005
Water Anxiety...
I have to make this fast. We have about two hours of electricity- hopefully. The water came back yesterday evening. It's just a little drizzle but it's certainly better than nothing.
E. was the first to hear it. We were sitting in the living room and he suddenly jumped up, alert, "Do you hear that?" He asked. I strained my ears for either the sound of a plane or helicopter or gun shots. Nothing... except, wait... something... like a small stream of... water? Could it be? Was it back? We both ran into the bathroom where we had the faucets turned on for the last eight days in anticipation of water. Sure enough, there it was- a little stream of water that kept coming and going as if undecided. E. and I did a little victory dance in front of the sink with some celebratory hoots and clapping.
This was followed by a lot of work. We spent the rest of the evening filling anything that was fillable- pots, pans, cups, bottles and buckets. The formerly empty area under the staircase is now filled with big pots of water covered with trays and mismatching pot covers to keep out stray bugs and dust.
I almost didn't sleep last night. I kept worrying the water would be cut off again. I actually crept downstairs at 4 a.m. to see if it was still there and found E. standing in the bathroom doorway doing the same. My mother is calling the syndrome "water anxiety". We were hoping the flow would grow stronger at night but apparently the water pressure is really low. E. and I rose early this morning because we decided last night that should the water continue to flow, we'd attempt to fill up the big water tank on the roof. The water from this tank goes directly to the electric water heater but since we haven't been using that for a while now, we decided to close up the tank and use it as a sort of secondary storage. We cannot get caught off-guard again. Drinking water rose to almost 1,000 Dinars a liter this last week.
E. and I spent the day carrying up buckets of water. The water flow is so weak, it takes about 17 minutes to fill up a 10 liter plastic pail (I was timing it). We've carried up about 10 buckets until now. The water still doesn't reach the kitchen faucets so we've managed to move the dirty dishes to the bathroom and are washing them there.
Unfortunately, the electricity situation has deteriorated. We're getting about four hours for every twenty hours in our area- I'm not quite sure what's going on in the other areas. It feels like we're almost cut off from each other.
Baghdad has been unstable these last few days. We had several explosions this last week and although the number of explosions wasn't surprising, the force of a couple of them had us wincing. There's a real fear of the coming elections and what they might bring. I don't like the
Renato, I have had TWO bad series of experiences with Apple. Sure, they eventually "fix" things, but this after me spending accumulated hours into days on the telephone with various "specialists" who really don't know what to do except go nuclear: Erase the hard drive and start over. (I have been told that one twice.)
I should tell you that I have been a Mac user since 1990 and only started running into defective equipment and AppleCare runaround in the last two years. Something has changed there, and not for the better.
I've been using the same Mac Powerbook, with the no major failures since it's purchase in 2001. And I'm a "power user". I love trying out new shareware and use power hungry programs like Photoshop and Final Cut Pro 8 to 10 hours a day on average. My corporation issues me a new Wintel laptop like clockwork every two years as well (I use it to test cross platform creations). They constantly have to install patches and upgrades to fight the Gates gremlins, viruses, and other attacks.
Ultimately you have to ask yourself, "Why do Macs have such a great Rep for stability and quality?". Because the do. It's the truth.
Here's the machine to make the jump with. You can use your existing monitor and many of your newer peripherals with it. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Atablarasa- Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Perhaps the device attached to the port needed too much power.
NYMary- At least buffer under/overruns are a more typical issue. I could live with that.
BTW, does Apple offer in-house tech support?
From the post I can't tell if the problem is hardware or software. A sector scan on a huge drive can take a long time. Errors that it finds can be bad sectors (hardware) or bad entries in the FAT (software, but can be caused by hardware).
If John has bad sectors they need to replace the drive. If the FAT is constantly getting hozed it is bad memory (which can be tested with a memtest disk) or the IDE controller on the mobo. There should be a diagnostic utility to test that as well.
No company is going to replace the whole computer because of a bad drive. In any case, if John is this upset, Sony has done a piss poor job. Which doesn't surprise me. I've been pissed at Sony since I found out my DVD player, a high end one at the time, had an engineering flaw that caused it to become a rock after a year and a half.
Computers are complex. Thinking of them as an appliance is bound to be frustrating.
Honestly, I can live anyplace that has a good, reliable high speed connection and a decent grocery. . . .
============
That's the conclusion we have come to. Going down to check out Philly next month, then to Oregon in the Spring. We don't need to be in NYC to do what we want to do.
A computer is a computer is a computer.
I would love to get a Mac. However, as the system I was is $3,000+ I will stick with a PC.
That said, I have never heard a good thing about Sony PC's or Laptops, other than their integration with other Sony components. Camera's DVD players, etc. for digital media manipulation.
What John went through, he never should have had to go through. It does take being a bit forceful on the phone with the support jockey.
They have a goal of getting you off the phone. Run Diagnostics and call back tomorrow (or similar) is the usual response from Dell, HP/Compaq(Same company), Gateway etc, and probably Apple as well.
You, as the end user calling for support, have to be clear, and insistent that, that answer is not the correct one.
You will probably get shunted to second level support, which will put you back into a phone queue, but you will get someone who does not have the same time constraints as the first level support phone jockey.
Part of purchasing a computer from a Brand name company, is the support you get. If you are not getting it from the first level support, demand to speak with a supervisor.
As far as the Mac vs PC debate, someone send me a Power Mac G5 dual, with lots of RAM, big HD, big monitor, and I will perform a comparison with my PC and report which is better.
Gone are the days of the intrepid technical experts that would listen to a client, ask questions germaine to the problem, and use his/her knowledge of hardware/software and diagnostic tools to determine the cause of a particular problem and what it would take to repair the item.
Nowadays, people who carry the title "technicians" are too busy resolving minor symptoms with band-aid fixes...they never think that the symptom is just a part of a larger problem. That's from the "old" school that no one has time for nowadays.
Businesses no longer hire real technicians because we cost too much. Rather, they prefer those who are "certified" on specific hardware/software platforms.
Unfortunately for the average consumer, mediocre performance in the areas of platforms, software, and maintenance in now the norm.
I have ran into too many "technical experts" that while they may be good at a specific platform running a specific OS with specific applications, they are dumber that dirt once they step outside their narrow niche of expertise.
Unless you are willing to put the time and effort into resolving your own problems down to the core component failure, your at the mercy of the corporate business behemonth..what they say goes, regardless...thank you for your patronage.
regards
.
I recently bought a refurbished Apple PowerMac G5 from the Apple Store online and it has been nothing but trouble. I'm generally a big fan of Apple products, but I think people are going overboard on this thread praising Apple. Just my two cents.
QuiltLady,
I have a friend in Philly who loves it. He says it's a small enough city for one person to get actively involved (he's on the boards of some cultural organizations), though big enough to be a real city.
Computers are complex, but they are TOOLS. Perhaps that's why a Mac/PC flame war holds the exact same appeal as listening to two people debate brands of lawnmowers. Yawn.
-
"If you had your way, Saddam would still be in power." Yes, if I had my way, Saddam would probably still be in power. And ten thousand American families would not be suffering. That's an easy call.
Max says it eloquently don't he? I wish the Democrats had the nerve to say the same.
As fer the Pro fesser, he's the guy we have to fight - he and a couple of others of his ilk get away with making specious, lying arguments that make their way into the mainstream - this crap should be refuted non-stop - there have to be letter writing campaigns to the media - this bile/drivel cannot be allowed to be thought of as conventional wisdom - It's the right that is imploding (as Christine Todd-Whitman notes in her book), not the left as Reynolds suggests - and what's the big deal about Moore anyway? He's the equivalent of an op-ed opinion writer; why should he be shunned for expressing his opinions? These people hate free speech when they disagree with what was said. Cheney hangs out with Rush for pity's sake. Now that's scandalous!
wrong thread - never mind - (The ghost of Emily Litella)
I work as a help desk tech for a large financial institution. Our policy is "first call resolution", which is, if we can walk the caller through to a solution on the first call, then we need to do it. Talking to me is cheaper than sending out a tech to fix something. Since many of the machines we support are locked down in one way or another, most of the problems can be fixed on the first call.
My biggest frustration as a tech is when someone calls up, doesn't want to do basic troubleshooting like a cold reboot (you'd be amazed how many "problems" this clears up) and wants me to open a ticket. Now I can get in trouble for just opening a ticket. So, when I occasionally get these people, I put in the ticket something like, "user did not want to perform troubleshooting" or "user had to go to meeting" or "user calling for her manager, who was not around to troubleshoot PC" etc.
Then there are the guys who call up and they have tickets open already that are in the process of being resolved, but they are sure there is a "third way" to do something that will resolve the issue faster. I had a guy call me, he had two tickets open, one to his helpdesk for the hardware and one to the mail group for the user's profile and he was sure there was another group I could open a ticket to. Well there wasn't and I told him that. He wasn't buying it and he dropped the phone on his desk with a huge *CLUNK* but did not hang up. Ten minutes later (during which time I talked to one of my supervisors about how to handle a customer who was obviously uncooperative) he came back on the line and said he didn't need me. I documented the hell out of that ticket in case this guy called one of the managers to rant about me.
But even at our job we get hardware failures on the computers we support. Hard drives go bad more than anything else, and then there are the people whose network connections go down, you troubleshoot the hell out of it and then send up a ticket, and it turns out that the port was turned off by a tech onsite doing something else.
I do like my job, because I'm not under pressure to get off the call when the troubleshooting is going to take a while.
argh, I have no problem with apples. I have a problem with people who, no matter what the computer problem, inform the victim that if they'd only bought an apple they wouldn't have any problems.
john bought a bum computer and is getting hosed by the company. Now, if you think the problem is "john's an idiot because he should have (insert pet preference here)" then you're just being an asshole.
Some people like apples. some don't. some have had great customer care service. some haven't. some people have had no problems with their apples. some have had lots.
all of this is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
I like my job because most of it is person to person. I want to know why a computer is failing, because it is likely to happen to others sooner or later. I mostly address freaking ad and spyware these days. It's like being paid to solve puzzles.
Oh, I should add that we get calls from everyone in our organization, and while most people are on managed LANs, a lot aren't, and troubleshooting those machines is way fun (not in a good way). Then, when get to the end of troubleshooting, have determined that software may need to be installed or there's a problem with the hardware, and then you ask, "who is your tech support" and get a tremendous silence from the other end, you know that the computer probably has all sorts of junk on it or hooked up to it which is either disapproved or outright banned. Fun times, fun times....
I'd rather deal with tellers and bankers, who, in the main, are barely computer literate.
This makes me glad that I build all of my machines. If something breaks, I replace it; if the software or OS starts acting flaky, I know what to do to correct the problem. None of this proprietary shit for me. Should I ever feel the need for a laptop, a simple vanilla model will suffice (who needs a 2000.00 desktop replacement, especially out on the road?). I feel the dude's pain, but this is standard operating procedure for ALL computer manufacturers. What they make is crap, and they don't support it once they've got your money. Fuck that!
Speaking of certifications, my CCNA(Cisco Certified Network Associate) certificate came in the mail just now. Hooray!
I do like my job, because I'm not under pressure to get off the call when the troubleshooting is going to take a while.
Well, internal tech support is a lot different than manufacturer tech support. For one thing, you don't have an ulterior motive to try to prevent refunds or returns, and for another, technical problems cost *your* company money in lost productivity, so getting it fixed and fixed right is actually your prime directive.
I pretty much gave up on technical support, built my own PC, and if I have any problems I just search for information online. It's worked so far, and the only parts I've had to replace were defective hard drives and a possibly defective video card (it might just be that ATI's driver install is completely fucked up - unfortunately, nVidia seems to be largely abandoning AGP in favor of PCI Express...).
I have been using Macs for 15 years and have NEVER had one problem. I do not "back up" my work and have never lost anything. Apple makes a fantastic, reliable product. end of story.
OK...
I'm off my orange crate.....
I re-read John's lament and I can see that his computer is dead; he re-installs windows and it works; then its dead again.......
uuuuuuhhhhh........
Please describe "dead"?
Just what does the OS/Windows say when it dies?
Does it even load windows?
What Windows are we talking about? 95/98/ME/2000/XP?
If there was some clues as to what the problem is, people may be able to offer assistance. I've been thru hell and high-water on 95/98/2000/XP/Solaris-UNIX/SGI-UNIX and know a few insider tips, but need more info.
regards
.
For the record:
I've bought tens of thousands of dollars of Sony hardware (never computers) over the years and I've never had a problem except ONCE. My 10 year old 30in Trinitron XBR^2 blew its power supply, cost me about $175 to replace it. BFD. This particular TV is widely considered to be the best TV ever made. I buy Sony because the hardware is so good it rarely fails. BUT you MUST make sure you're buying product manufactured in Japan, not outsourced to their Mexican or Korean factories. The difference in quality is astonishing.
And there's the problem. Sony laptops are well known to be pieces of crap, except for a few of their premium units that are manufactured in Japan. If you're buying a $2k unit, you're buying one of the piece of crap units.
Now I want everyone to notice how I passed up the opportunity to say "you should've got a Mac." Although I will note that the "USB Over Current Notice" is not Apple's fault, it's caused by plugging in a USB-powered device that draws too much current for any USB device. Either he has a USB extension cord that is longer than the max 6 feet, or he's pluggin the device in through a non-powered USB hub and he needs a powered hub. This would have been a problem regardless of platform.
igneous -
sorry, but I call bullshit on your mac story.
I'm not going to list my credentials, just my experiences. I've been on both sides of the service call, and I've worked in customer service. I'll leave it at that.
From a business standpoint, technical support is not a profit center. This means it's done as cheaply as possible. By and large most of the "techs" are not anything more than call center operators. Few have any technical experience. All they know is what is on the script, which was more than likely written by someone who has only slightly more technical knowledge than they do. In addition in our outsourced technical world, it's possible that operator takes support calls for more than one manufacturer and is not located in the US. Until someone takes on these companies for not providing promised support and honoring their warranties, it will continue.
I have a business idea in this area I'll be glad to share with anyone who has the resources to actually make it happen. All I want is a small royalty from the profits and an equity share of the business.
More than half of our consumer electronics are Sony in our household, from the crappy little AM/FM battery radio in my bathroom to the XBR450 HDTV. My only experience with Sony service was a DVD burner I got for xmas last year that came pre-broken. Shipped it off to their service center in Iowa, and two weeks later got a new one which works perfectly.
But I'd NEVER buy PC from anyone. I build my own. Only way to get the exact components you need/want. God bless Fry's Electronics, those magnificent bastards.
I do recommend Dells to friends and family, just so I can minmize my time spent as their tech support.
But I'd NEVER buy PC from anyone. I build my own. Only way to get the exact components you need/want.
Amen. I paid a little extra on some things, but it's nice piece of mind to know I don't have Brand X crap memory, motherboard or power supply.
Well, when a couple posters here write that OS X crashes all the time, I have to write and say, Bullshit.
My post has nothing to do w/ what platform or computer is better, it is to counter the Bullshit posts that spread misinfo that pros say OS X crashes a lot.
OS X is a stable, user friendly OS.
My school just received a bunch of higher end routers and switches as well as PIX firewalls, hubs, etc, intended for CCIE practice labs that we're starting to offer. All that lovely equipment that I get to play around with and accumulate more "hands-on" experience with. No more rooty-poo 1900 Catalysts and 2500s for this kid.
You want a platform war that damned near no one here will care about? Cisco Vs Juniper. I'll have to get some hands-on with Junos OS before I can even have an opinion on that.
One alternative would be to go to one of those websites where you can configure-your-own down at the individual component level. The reason I didn't do that, apart from itching to try my hand it building a PC, was that I wanted to be able to buy it in installments (processor last, to take advantage of any price drops, which worked out nicely).
Sent my email. Tremendously satisfying, I must say. Mr. TJ's going to send one too.
God, Mac people are such self-righeous twits.
Please,Black #1,
Your attempts to prop up your tech cred is pathetic.
For consideration on John's lost data and files....
First, memory sticks are relatively cheap now. If you have any important info, that's the way to go.
Secondly, Partition Magic is useful to create 2 separate/logical drives from a single hard-drive. If the OS side goes Tango-Uniform, you have to rebuilt it, BUT, the other logical side is safe and is never lost on a re-build.
It doesn't resolve John's issue, however, it will help him and others to protect themselves and their data if they experience troubles such as John's in the future. The only real issue then would be the platform not working.
regards
.
"righteous", that is.
I think infallibility is part of the Mac mythology. Hell, any platform is infallible, right up until the point at which it fails.
Your attempts to prop up your tech cred is pathetic.
Who the fuck are you exactly?
Gee, my first computer's main memory was 64K and I upgraded to 128 . . . (I am old, right?)
What is pathetic is your attitude, blackie numero uno.
Your projection is similar to a lot of right wing bloggers.
Secondly, Partition Magic is useful to create 2 separate/logical drives from a single hard-drive. If the OS side goes Tango-Uniform, you have to rebuilt it, BUT, the other logical side is safe and is never lost on a re-build.
I enthusiastically second this recommendation. I always make sure to have a separate system partition and data partition(s), and would have been screwed many times over if I did not.
BlakNo1,
Don't do it, buddy. Really.
not to harp. but this is just one of the benefits of a mac...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/2...&
partner=rssnyt
of course you seem to have some problem with macs so it does not matter...
God, Mac people are such self-righeous twits.
Yeah, sometimes we are. Unlike non-Mac people, of course.
I think infallibility is part of the Mac mythology. Hell, any platform is infallible, right up until the point at which it fails.
Eli
I've probably noted this elsewhere, and of course I'm currently in mp3 debt to you, but damn, I like you, Eli.
Ha! good luck! Sony is notorious for bad tech support. He should have known this before he purchased one of their products. Find the receipt and take the damn thing back to the store for a refund. Then never buy Sony again.
>But I'd NEVER buy PC from anyone. I build my own. Only way to get the exact components you need/want.
Yep.. you can do that... all get all the adware and spyware and secuirty breaches that go along with it...
(let me guess you you use linux but to back to windows just for turbo tax. sure)
Oh, just to clarify, my insult was only meant for my new best friend. I think I stated my OS opinions adequately enough.
Aw, shucks, thanks, Mary - I likes ya too. I figured the only response to that one was going to be "WTF???"
Here's a question that has yet to be asked....what is the problem? The platform or the OS?
There could be a hardware malfunction, there could be a software glitch, there could be a third-party device that once attached to the laptop is conflicting with the on-board hardware that's causing the OS to up-chuck the enire platform.
There's a lot of variables here and has nothing to do with PC vs MAC because a MAC would do the same under the same set of circumstances.
Real tech's have to disassociate themselves of their preferences and deal strictly with the task at hand and not quibble about what someone should have done...they already did it.
regards
.
pretty thin skin, mr. blak.
filkertom: That said, unless you absolutely need the beefiest gaming computer or multimedia workstation available, most everyone can get away with a lot less machine.
I just "built" a brand new 3.0Ghz P4 Prescott box for under $500 -- the only thing I didn't have to buy new was HDDs, mouse, keyboard, monitor. I put "built" in quotes 'cause the place I bought from actually assembled and tested the whole thing, sans drives. When it got here, I installed my removeable drive bays, a couple of fat HDDs, my CD-R and DVD+R, installed WinXP, and life is good.
.
>God, Mac people are such self-righeous twits.
self righteout twits that use computers that DON"T leave their systems wide open for people to spy on and rip off their bank account info..
how's that adware /spyware thing going for you?
Girlth, girlth...pleathe!
Anybody wanna bend me over an operate my thythtem?
Oh for fuck's sake, why should I care about some schmuck and his "Sony" computer?
Here's a question that has yet to be asked....what is the problem? The platform or the OS?
I'm thinking if he keeps reinstalling and it keeps dying, it's *not* the OS, unless their recovery CD itself is flawed. Which, I suppose, could be a possibility...
But admitting to that would cost Sony money, of course.
Those who talk about thin skins need to take a good, long look in their mirror.
To clarify, once again, anyone who claims that either OS is infallible is utterly, completely FULL OF SHIT.
I offer no opinions on Linux, since I'm not familiar with it.
igneous -
sorry, but I call bullshit on your mac story.
sweet poison 01.29.05 - 12:36 pm
?? Call bullshit? What do you mean? You don't believe my hassles? What can I say. Apple is NOT pure-D heaven. I used to be a Macolyte, too. As I said, I've had Macs since 1990 (LC), then to a 7100 and then to a G3 desktop. It wasn't until I bought the Powerbook when I started having extreme problems, which Apple would keep fixing, when they should have just finally replaced the whole damned machine. I told them (including a letter to Steve Jobs) that they were making a grave error by treating a previously loyal customer this way. It's very bad PR. I have told this story to many people. And now with the obviously defective G5, I will not sit down and take their BS. I have already spent hours unto days on hold and working through techs who would put me on hold to ask their supervisors what to do.
I hope you never have to spend hours unto days on hold and talking to a tech who doesn't know what to do either.
MAN, it's tetchy around here today.
Silleigh,
Don't check downstairs, then.... knee deep in troll shit.
The computer industry sucks. Everytime someone loses data, others will cluck their tongues and say "backup". But how? Is genuine backup software or hardware included on any machine? Backing up to CDs is a joke when you have 100 gigabyte hard disks. Backing up text documents is possible, but not everyone works solely with text. I, for example do a lot of work with movies. Photos, songs and pdfs can also be very large. Tell me about backup. The most reasonable solution is to back up to an external hard drive. An external disk mirror RAID solution for data disks would work nicely. Anybody you know do that for home computers? Any manufacturers suggest this or offer RAID as an option? I haven't seen it.
Computer manufacturers do not configure computers with realistic backup solutions. I agree with the post above that requiring everyone to be a computer technician is not realistic. But, for computer manufacturers to provide realistic backup would be a considerable additional cost. And with computers appearing to cost about $500, adding a fixed cost of several hundred dollars will make manufacturers appear uncompetitive.
As a mac user, I don't feel immune to these issues. I've been bit. Over the years I've found mac customer support to be excellent. But macs are not well set up for backup. It's easier to reinstall the operating system, but far from trivial. Even though I've gone through the trauma of broken and hard to diagnose machines, I've never ended up hating a computer or the manufacturer (well, there was one first generation iMac I almost threw out the window, but ...). I've also had terrible experiences with build-to-order pcs from small, reputable manufacturers. The whose industry hasn't figured out how to handle backup, warrantee and repair issues.
NYMary- It seems to be getting pretty thick around this thread as well.
BlakNo1: "USB Over Current Notice"
I'm a tech who works at a computer school, and I've never even heard of this issue.
Just a guess: It's complaining about a peripheral USB device that is drawing more current than it should... most likely an external HDD or a printer. Might be "fixable" by swapping USB devices and ports. A lot of USB devices that derive power via USB will complain/not work at all when plugged into a hub, for example.
.
MAN, it's tetchy around here today.
Well, it is a tetch support thread, after all...
john bought a bum computer and is getting hosed by the company. Now, if you think the problem is "john's an idiot because he should have (insert pet preference here)" then you're just being an asshole.
Atrios | 01.29.05 - 12:25 pm | #
Coulda, shoulda, woulda is pointless at this stage. It is easy to say Sony should just replace the machine, but that isn't going to happen. Any company that resolves a $100 issue with a $2000 fix isn't going to be around to get repeat business. They are going to find out what part is broken and fix that part.
Unfortunatly that is very hard to do over the phone when your only interface with the machine is with someone who is A) already pissed off and b) doesn't know what to look for.
I've spent a long time in troubleshooting hell, so I sympathise. He has two choices: Work with Sony to figure out the problem or tell them to fuck off and take it to a local repair shop. Then possibly send the bill to Sony via a lawyer.
"To clarify, once again, anyone who claims that either OS is infallible is utterly, completely FULL OF SHIT."
Hm, i read these posts, and I don't see any one claiming OS X is infallible.
?
Where did you get that?
I read some counters to your claim that pros that OS X crashes a lot.
That hasn't been my experience at all and I administer 25 newish macs running OS X.
My take from this thread is blak does have a thin skin, and is reading to much into the posts, or is this a hold over from some previous thread?
grytpype,
no one said you have to care. nor do you have to send an email. Some of us are regular readers of Americablog and do care about the troubles he's experienced. And some of us just like to fuck with corporate types.
Jeffraham- Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. I guess I'll find out when it happens.
Eli,
He may be attaching some old third-party device, probably DOS-based, that is not in the HAL for his version of Microsoft Windows and is ursurping an IRQ dedicated to some on-board system.
I say this because when he re-loads Windows, it sounds as if things are working for a time then all hell breaks loose and the platform dies. Tells me that he may have done something to upset the platform. Would be good to know the duration between failures and what he's attaching to the platform.
Best I can speculate without more data to go on.
regards
.
I don't see any one claiming OS X is infallible.
I suggest you either read the posts where people are being called "liars" for daring to say that Mac OS has problems, or stop posting under 2 differnet names. Either one is fine.
"different", that is.
Don't check downstairs, then.... knee deep in troll shit.
Oh, lovely. Platform Wars and Troll Shit to choose from. Decisions, decisions... If this keeps up, I might have to go wash the dishes and vacuum and stuff. Damn.
Can we just stipulate that almost everyone has had good and bad experiences with whatever they use? I have a PC at home and a Mac at work, and have had major problems with both. Currently, I rush to get home to the PC -- BUT THAT'S JUST ME.
Silleigh- That works for me just fine.
Fuck this shit. How about Galactica. New vs old?
Ba'al wonders how people can get so excited about what kind of computer they use. Ba'al suspects it is the same reason people get testy about what god they worship.
If the one you are using doesn't make you happy, change.
Not even Ba'al is infallible.
Some people are computer people (my brother is one, uses both platforms), some aren't (like me, I'm a musician, I know less than nothing about computers). My experience is that Macs are for idiots like me, Windows machines are for folks who have a clue about the technology. I've been using Macs since 1984, and the problems have been few, far-between and pretty easy to fix. My business partner is also the singer in my band, and he has had a constant stream of problems with his DOS machines, including custom-built ones, over the 7 years or so we have been working together. I don't understand why he's not on a Mac, since he's every bit as clueless as I am, computer-wise, and I do understand how tech-savvy folks are comfortable with Gatesworld. Apart from weird one-off problems that will ahppen with any consumer product, if you don't care about how a computer works, try a Mac, and you'll never have to. And back up regularly. I maintain three big hard drives, excellent investments, have lost virtually no info in three years. As far as the shortage of software, that's a canard, and with the new G5 models, it's pretty easy to translate Winspeak and MS stuff, if you have to. Initial investment is higher, but I've spent very little downtime over the years, and I feel that time is worth something.
"or stop posting under 2 differnet names."
Godwins law should be amended to include this turkey of a response.
If the one you are using doesn't make you happy, change.
Hear the words of Ba'aal and take heed!!
Man, my typos today. Egad.
Ba'al wonders how people can get so excited about what kind of computer they use. Ba'al suspects it is the same reason people get testy about what god they worship.
* * *
Imagine there's no countries
It isnt hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no computers, too...
Sony was and is still the major player in professional video, and their innovations usually make it to consumer video fairly fast. So if you're looking for good value in a TV or monitor, you can't do bad by them, imho.
Recently I've had to work with one of their tower systems, a Vaio, which will crash simply by moving the mouse the wrong way. We've backed-up the hard drive and reinstalled XP several times, to no avail. Even their 'proprietary' implementation of XP (a wrapper around XP home edition, which is crappy anyway) causes much agony. Lots of nifty free multi-media software included, much of it useless since the system has no video capture card installed. If you are a small business or other user and value your data, Vaio is a poor choice.
Someone upstream mentioned that blank recordable CDs are 20 cents each. That may be true, but stay away from them. The defect rates are very high. Most CD foundaries have re-tooled for DVD, so look for something in the $.80-$1.00 price/disc range. Otherwise you will have backups that can't be recovered.
Man, my typos today. Egad.
Now, Blak, if you'd just switch platforms, you wouldn't HAVE that problem...
Has any one given thought to this motivation for Bush wanting an expert in soviet study in his cabinet? The motivation is not to have an expert on tyranical government so that we'll know how to fight them, but more so that we'll know how to impliment one here.
John needs help, not insults. The computer should work; backups are wise but shouldn't be essential. The damn things should work and computer makers have been getting away with putting the onus on the user for far too long.
I have a car; I don't have a backup vehicle or have to spend a couple of hours every single day working on it to make sure it runs correctly. This attitude that it's the user's fault has filtered down through all kinds of IT departments, who persist in asking questions like, "did you reboot?" when you've called to point out that the machine won't even start up.
My first real computer at home was a Gateway, which I bought in 1995 for a ridiculous $2,700 (the price went down about a week later, of course.) The Gateway support people were wonderful and the machine ran fine for quite a while. Since then, I have never seen similar support, or even a friendly attitude, from any of these companies. Someone will clean these companies' clocks someday. Until then, we have to keep hammering away at them.
Don't ever buy Memorex blanks. They're horrible.
c'mon i feel like i'm sitting on the curb watching the boys trade baseball cards... borrrrrrriiinnnnnggg.
John needs help, not insults. The computer should work; backups are wise but shouldn't be essential. The damn things should work and computer makers have been getting away with putting the onus on the user for far too long.
I have a car; I don't have a backup vehicle or have to spend a couple of hours every single day working on it to make sure it runs correctly. This attitude that it's the user's fault has filtered down through all kinds of IT departments, who persist in asking questions like, "did you reboot?" when you've called to point out that the machine won't even start up.
My first real computer at home was a Gateway, which I bought in 1995 for a ridiculous $2,700 (the price went down about a week later, of course.) The Gateway support people were wonderful and the machine ran fine for quite a while. Since then, I have never seen similar support, or even a friendly attitude, from any of these companies. Someone will clean these companies' clocks someday. Until then, we have to keep hammering away at them.
Guys, I have a question.
Remember when a California gubernatorial candidate was accused of plotting some sort of extremist Aztec takeover of America because he'd been part of MeCha?
Then what about Alberto Gonzales's being backed by the National Council of La Raza?
wingnut link here
P.S. Mini Mac is the answer to everything. It is truly God's gift to computing.
Editoress- The car comparisons are right on the money. Not everyone is a geek or a techie. In fact, most aren't.
Silleigh- I blame Steve Jobs for my inability to type today. Perhaps I'll blame Bill Gates tomorrow.
honestly, I hit the button just once....
Ba'al would like to read some snark about wingnuts.
John G is getting things started.
Ba'al thanks you.
Editoress: honestly, I hit the button just once....
In Soviet Union, button hits you.
-Y.S.
.
Another rocket again in the Green Zone, 2 more Americans dead apparently, that's 9 today.
MSNBC follows this report with a story about "happy fun rebuilding Iraq time"
Doo Dah
Fuck that, I was trying to get a Galactica discussion started.
Sony's losing money bigtime according to this NYT story from yesterday...and only eked out a profit because of a big TAX BREAK on its US operations.
Their solution to the problem, of course, is to "cut costs" faster.
Personally I never buy Sony anything because they appear to be designed, right down to the plug level, to be incompatible with anything but other Sony products. Of course I learned this about 10 years ago during a brief stint working for a Radio Shack so things may have changed.
BlakNo1,
Fuck that, I was trying to get a Galactica discussion started.
Geek.
The computer industry sucks. Everytime someone loses data, others will cluck their tongues and say "backup". But how? Is genuine backup software or hardware included on any machine?
John Kubie | 01.29.05 - 1:00 pm | #
Windows comes with a backup program. Start=> Programs => Accessories = >System Tools => Backup. I'm not sure about a MAC.
Backup stratagies will varry depending on situation. On thing to consider is having two hard drives. Or a small LAN where data resides on two systems. That isn't cheap, but how much is your data worth?
BlakNo1: Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. I guess I'll find out when it happens.
I was duplicating so many others, sorry -- posting before reading, again.
.
I haven't read these comments, but I am sure what I am about to say will have been said many times:
You get what you deserve when you buy a PC. Use this situation as a life-lesson, and get a Mac (which work flawlessly out of the box). And if something ever goes wrong, you can bloody take it to an Apple Store and get face-to-face tech support, interaction, and corporate responsibility.
www.apple.com
I would be willing to bet that there exists exactly the same story of machine faliure, and human indifference, with respect to every kind of machine humans have ever created. I am positive there is precisely such an account in the vaults of Mac, Epson, Dell, Gateway, HP, and every other maker.
There is, practically speaking, no difference between a Dodge and a Ford and a Chevrolet and a GMC pick-up. In actual fact, there are vanishingly few differences between and among any such mass-produced artifacts.
There is a difference between any pick-up truck and a pine-tree. To believe there is a difference between two manufactures of practically the same artifact is to be seduced by public relations, advertizing, and propaganda (and the logic of consumerism, in which citizens are schooled to accept, indeed to endlessly pursue 'distinctions without difference,' versus what Gregory Bateson memorably called 'differences which make a differnce').
He keeps on calling Sony, one of them is going to ask him "that question". You know the one...
"Have you got the box it came in...?
As far as the Mac vs PC debate, someone send me a Power Mac G5 dual, with lots of RAM, big HD, big monitor, and I will perform a comparison with my PC and report which is better.
If that's what trips your trigger, a good computer is a person can comfortably use for the desired output. For most of us -- hardware has FAR SURPASSED the needs of th software we want to run.
I for one an glad that the days of constantly upgrading hardware to run decent application software are probably behind us - though I know Intel and Microsof would love to keep their game of "leapfrog" going.
Will the public ever quite playing this game? Stay tuned for this and more...
Scott N.,
A tip. Read the thread. Or at least run a search for your hobbyhorse first.
I mean that in the nicest way, honestly.
You know who I REALLY hate? People who use #3 pencils. What morons. Don't they know that #3 pencils don't work as well or last as long as #2 pencils?
Dingisses. Jackpuddings.
NYMary- Absolutely. You think it's "bad" now, wait until new Dr Who eps start. 
Tom Baker is the only true Doctor.
You get what you deserve when you buy a PC. Use this situation as a life-lesson, and get a Mac
I'm a Mac whore, but this is crap. So John should just blow off the $2,000 dollars he spent on a product that should be guaranteed to work reliably for at least a couple years, and he should go out and spend more money? You're quite sure he's bathing in disposable income?
That's bullshit. And you have no idea why John is using a pc -- much less a Sony pc -- and not a Mac.
Read the thread.
I haven't read these comments, but I am sure what I am about to say will have been said many times:...
(Hey, guys, to save a lot of effort, could I just copy and re-post a whole chunk of comments from the middle of this thread, instead of starting the whole argument again?)
dammit, i came over here for news after seeing that john had put up that permanent post...and of course it's here too. sigh.
anyone else notice the post over at corrente concerning halliburton pulling out the last of their cayman island subsid. business out of iran?
just like they did in iraq right before the invasion. wake up kids, pretty soon we will long for the days when we could snark at each over re mac vs. pc.
I do not "back up" my work
WOW, when someone wants to proclaim that ignorant practice to the world as "proof" that something is better than another...
I probably shouldn't have even posted this thought, however, to each his/her own.
Eli- As much as I adore Tom, check out some William Hartnell if you can. He takes some getting used to but he's great.
New eps start March 25th!!!
Scott N. |01.29.05 - 1:30 pm
and get a Mac (which work flawlessly out of the box). And if something ever goes wrong, you can bloody take it to an Apple Store and get face-to-face tech support, interaction, and corporate responsibility
Scott, dream on. I have had an awakening: Apple is a large corporation. Apple.corp. Did you not see my posts above where I described my brand new G5 NOT working "flawlessly out of the box"? That corporate responsibility might have included replacing a machine that had to have three optical drives replaced in 13 months? Face-to-face support/"interaction" for me is difficult, as the nearest Apple dealer/repair is 110 miles away, over two mountain passes. The next closest is 140 miles over one big mountain pass. So what's a computer user to do? No way I'm going over to the dark side. I know I couldn't abide that crap. It's worse crap. And worse corporate bling. I'm just saying, Apple is NOT pure-D infallible. It makes a product that sometimes is crap, but mostly not.
Silleigh, I bet it's because Blak is using that old qwerty keyboard. If he'd just convert to a different typing system he'd get better results.
:D
hate to tell the Mac Heads, but Apple is no better.
Nah, I do think Macs and Apple are better than Sony. Even so, the Mac I use at work crashes all the fucking time. Really; can't go four hours without that machine choking. That's mostly the fault of the company systems, of course, but any machine can be configured for failure.
God, Mac people are such self-righeous twits.
BlakNo1
BINGO!!!! You just nailed it and it has nothing to do with hardware or software.
My two cents w/r/t Mac/PC:
I'm not saying that PC's are necessarily better than Macs, but all I know is that every single Mac I've ever had has been nothing but problems, while I've never had a major problem with a PC.
Macs are great with programs like Adobe Illustrator or Photoshop, but they really seem to suck at navigating the internet, which is what I mostly use my computer for.
As much as I adore Tom, check out some William Hartnell if you can. He takes some getting used to but he's great.
I've seen at least a little bit of all of them - I think the only ones I don't like are Davidson and McGann. But Tom Baker really does rule. Pertwee was also pretty cool - the closest thing to a badass Doctor.
I advise anyone who hasn't yet to get a bunch of Galactica eps via p2p and watch them. It's the best Sci-Fi TV since TNG or B5, and it's 1st year is better than either of those shows were in their 1st seasons.
anyone else notice the post over at corrente concerning halliburton pulling out the last of their cayman island subsid. business out of iran?
Yeah, I saw that. They gotta get out so they can stand at the front of the line for "rebuilding contracts" in Iran.
NYMary:
Still here?
Did my mailers show up?
Colin Baker has to be my least favorite, although I haven't seen any Sly McCoy yet.
Face-to-face support/"interaction" for me is difficult, as the nearest Apple dealer/repair is 110 miles away, over two mountain passes. The next closest is 140 miles over one big mountain pass.
Well, now whose fault is that? How can you expect Apple to provide you with decent customer service if you're not willing to live right next to one of their stores?
No pleasing some people.
MAC
MAC
MAC
MAC
MAC
MAC
You know who I REALLY hate? People who use #3 pencils. What morons. Don't they know that #3 pencils don't work as well or last as long as #2 pencils?
Ah, c'mon, everyone who's anyone knows that the whole graphite/clay OS is inferior. Don't be so cheap, and buy a pen. Oh, and be sure to get the right kind of Wite-Out to go with it.
Go watch the first installment of Pencilman, upper right clicky-box.
I have a question about backing up.
Sometimes people act like it is this huge chore. But it seems relatively easy to me.
Now, all I am backing up is files like documents, pictures, and maybe some music.
Do I need to back up anything else? Don't I just need to worry about "irreplacable" stuff like docs and pics?
It makes me wonder if there is something I am missing since some people act like it is this huge pain in the ass to back up. For me it just involves burning a couple of CDs.
Again, it should be clarified that I only meant that snark for my new best friend, who seems to have either vanished or is being kept busy on the previous thread.
BlakNo1:
With all due respect, I agree
the new Galactica is pretty good.
However, either of the Stargate
shows are vastly better.
If only because they have a sense
of humor and are written in
vernacular English.
And they don't look as if they were
being photographed by strapping a
Panavision camera onto the head of
a hyper-active seal.
Really. The visuals on Galactica are
major league annoying.
steve,
haven't checked the mail. Hang on.
God, Mac people are such self-righeous twits.
BINGO!!!! You just nailed it and it has nothing to do with hardware or software.
Thanks very much. You're a peach.
Love,
Self-Righteous Twit
I was happy to contact Sony, and here's another good deed for the day:
Below is an alert from Scouting for All, a wonderful organization that fights Boy Scouts of America bigotry toward gays.
The City of Philadelphia supports discrimination on the part of the BSA. Please read alert below and send an appropriate message to the Philadelphia Mayor's Action Center:
renee.grundy@phila.gov
Action Alert
for Immediate Distribution
January 30, 2005
Contact
Perry Slone, Director
Beacon Fellowship Columbus, OH
Email: Beaconohio@aol.com
Scott Cozza, Pres.
Scouting for All
Email: cozzahived@aol.com
Boy Scouts of America's Simon Kenton Council
Attempts to Mislead the United Way of Central Ohio to Get Funding
"Some BSA scout council's will say they won't discriminate out of one side of their mouth to secure funding; to get reduced city owned/tax payer building space fees; use of public schools and government lands. Out of the other side of their mouth they say they won't discriminate and from the other side of their mouth they say they follow the Boy Scouts of America's national policy of discrimination against gay and atheist youth and adults. As one example of many, we see this with the Cradle of Liberty Council in Philadelphia. They have even kicked out an 18 year old scout for being gay and atheist and now tell the Mayor and city council they don't discriminate to secure rent free city owned building use. And both the mayor and city council have turned a deaf ear to those of us who have pointed out this hypocrisy and violation of the city of Philadelphia's own anti-discrimination regulations to them. Scouting for All is asking that we not allow ourselves to be deceived by the Boy Scouts of America. There is absolutely NO BSA Scout Council that has defied the BSA's national policy of discrimination. This means that no gay or atheist child or adult can feel safe as a member of the Boy Scouts of America nor can they join this youth outdoor program. They must hide who they are or be discovered and then kicked out. This is beyond belief, that this is occurring in America! Segments of American society have to hide who they are out of fear of retaliation! Let's STOP funding bigotry in America with tax payer money!
Let's support Beacon Fellowship of Columbus, Ohio, a Scouting for All Alliance for Human Rights member who calls for the United Way of Columbus, Ohio to STOP funding the Boy Scouts of America's Simon Kenton Council." Scott Cozza, Pres. Scouting for All
chicago dyke-i hear that.
Tom Baker is the only true Doctor.
Eli
Actually, I don't think you'd get a whole lot of disagreement on that one...
And no computers, too...
My guess is John would have loved the 'net -- but that is MHO -- really a pointless comment.
So many take for granted the corporate structure and influences in our culture -- we are just talking about a machine, what we choose to do with it is another issue as are the "social constructs" that we accept.
GP- Whatever you consider valuable, just burn it to CD. It sounds to me like you have your situation well in hand.
Thanks for those e-mail links, hawkseye.
SG-1 bores me to tears. I've tried.
mr. bill -
Nope. The fact that I don't "back up" has nothing to do with the superiority of the Mac. I was just saying that I'm lucky to have a Mac because it has never crashed AND I am not a person who is careful with back-ups.
Your attitude about the Mac and Mac Users is here for all to see.
#3 pencils
Damn -- you are spot on with that one. I have a #1 pencil and I never have to write anything twice or make a photocopy or carbon copy. It has a hard lead, so that it never makes my hand dirty and it is easy to erase too.
People that use #2 or #3 pencils are stupid.
steve,
Yes. Wow.
I'll write.
Okay, as long as we're on Dr Who:
How was the Paul McGann movie
Who movie from
the mid-90s?
Didn't see it, but have liked him
since Withnail and I.
Y'know, the main problem I find with people and computers (of any platform) is that people buy a computer not having a good idea of what they're going to do with it. Sure, there's the general "e-mail, surf the web, make greeting cards for grandma" schtick, but anything available should be able to do that without problem.
The problems start when folks start trying to load up their Toyota Celica with a pallet of 2x4s, and 600 lbs. of cement. "Hey, the commercials showed my computer ('my computer' -- heh!) being able to make full-length feature films! What is this 'Firewire' of which you speak?!?"
.
chicago dyke, I saw that too. If you want to be really freaked out, go check out rising hegemon. Attaturk has a link to a WaPo story about a reporter who was followed by "minders" throughout his coverage of one of the Inaugural balls:
Consider that the escorts weren't there to provide security; all of us had already been through two checkpoints and one metal detector. They weren't there to keep me away from, Heaven forbid, a Democrat or a protester; those folks were kept safely behind rings of fences and concrete barriers. Nor were the escorts there to admonish me for asking a rude question of the partying faithful, or to protect the paying customers from the prying media.
Their real purpose only occurred to me after I had gone home for the night, when I remembered a brief conversation with a woman I was interviewing. During the middle of our otherwise innocuous encounter, she suddenly noticed the presence of my minder. She stopped for a moment, glanced past me, then resumed talking.
No, the minders weren't there to monitor me. They were there to let the guests, my sources on inaugural night, know that any complaint, any unguarded statement, any off-the-reservation political observation, might be noted. But maybe someday they'll be monitoring something more important than an inaugural ball, and the source could be you.
This scares me. Seriously, go check it out.
You geek people are sheep to be shorn.
A computer is meant to view porn.
Trying out fancy shit
Will just get you bit.
Watch the ladies and eat your popcorn.
Who you calling a geek, Willis?
How was the Paul McGann movie
Who movie from
the mid-90s?
Absolutely godawful. I loved Withnail & I, but it was an abomination. It looked like it was written by someone who had read about Dr. Who, but never actually watched any.
Jellybabies? Check.
Sonic screwdriver (never mind that it was lost several Doctors ago)? Check.
Using TARDIS to go back in time to undo companion's death? WTF???
I am not going to email a company about something that I simply don't have first hand knowledge about.
In my experience, Sony does not suck, btw.
He mentions "repair disks". What in the world could this be? He seems to think that it is a hardware issue, so how would software help? Furthermore, I have a hard time believing that Sony would refuse to repair this, although it is likely you would need to drop it off somewhere.
I would add that 98% of the time when someone has come to me exasperated over a "crappy" computer that sucks and won't work, it has been user error.
Personally I prefer a Wintel dildo over a Mac dildo. But sometimes I am nostalgic break out the kerosene-powered one.
-Liddy Dole
Watch the ladies and eat your popcorn.
Mmm ... Freedom Ladies Porn™!
As always, with great flair, Lime Rickey:
You geek people are sheep to be shorn.
A computer is meant to view porn.
Trying out fancy shit
Will just get you bit.
Watch the ladies and eat your popcorn.
But hey -- someone's got to make the porn you so enjoy... which is why I ask again, "What is this 'Firewire' of which you speak? And where does it plug into my circa-1985 VHS-C camcorder? And why won't this 'Firewire' thingie plug into my USB hole?"
.
Can we all just agree that Blake's 7
was the best sci-fi show ever?
steve- It absolutely sucked. When you see Eric Roberts on the cast list, you know you have a loser. I still can't believe I was expected to actually buy him as "The Master".
The master of what exactly?
Yo! Geeks, lookie here:
One: If your car worked as well as your computer, you'd ride a fucking horse. It's a very immature technology.
Two: The reason you shouldn't hope for the best performance when building your own system is that "name-brand" machines are optimised at the component level, unless you've had experience with many different configs, parts and drivers, who may not get what you hope for, and
Three: There is no hope.
.
Lime Rickey-What if one prefers to watch the popcorn and eat the ladies?
They gotta get out so they can stand at the front of the line for "rebuilding contracts" in Iran.
Wait for the "rebuilding contract" -- no way, they will loot the treasury long before those come out. If we can assume that 300 Billion will (conservatively) have been spent in Iraq by the end of the year to support 130,000 troups -- it becomes clear that OVER $2.3 MILLION has been "spent" for each man or woman over there in our name.
We ALL KNOW that they did not recieve it nor did the troops get basic support like decent food and protective armour. Halliburton, on the otherhand made out like bandits and cannot account for billions.
When I was young, I was taughty that Hilter was an evil genius that took over Gemany -- best evidence today says he was just an ignorant puppet (read: smirking chimp) that did the dirty work for the military industrial machine and those that financed it.
But don't take my word for it, check it out yourself. Here is one place to start:
How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/
st...1312540,00.html
Can we all just agree that Blake's 7
was the best sci-fi show ever?
I don't know about "the best" but, if you click my homepage...
Hey, Hilter would have been a great leader if he'd hadn't been insane. Go easy on GW and his family, and his cult.
We have nothing to fear as long as they are sane and rational.
God, I feel better already!
(Please note that Krans is Snark spelled backwards)
Can we all just agree that Blake's 7
was the best sci-fi show ever?
Um, not sure I'd go quite *that* far...
Am I the only one who found it jarring to see Servilan as a secretary in How To Get Ahead In Advertising? (Great, great, movie BTW)
I had forgotten Eric Roberts was The Master in that thing. Lordhelp.
Your attitude about the Mac and Mac Users is here for all to see.
sweet poison
OH MY GOD!!!! AM I NAKED!!!!!! Sorry, just saying to proclaim that one platform is clearly supperior to another based on one's personal preferences is ridiculus -- IMHO, it has nothing to do with the hardware or software. I prefer to leave it at that -- just waiting for the next thread. Peace to all of cyberword!
Paul got the shaft, IMAO. I also enjoyed Withnail and was psyched to hear that he'd got the part. But, as soon as I heard those two little words, I knew it was doomed to utter failure.
BlakNo1:
Ah, you are a wise man indeed.b
You only had to read that the 'puter failed out of the box to know that it's a hardware failure. No software will fix it. Me, I'd wrap it up, find the actual address for Sony Japan, VP for Quality, take it to Fedex and using my amex card, send it to them.
Then, in the future, never buy anything that you can't either return in person or personally locate whoever screwed you over. It's cheaper to pitch a fit locally.
B7 is only beat by ST:TOC + Dr Who in my personal hall of Sci-Fi greatness.
OT: Rocket attack on US embassy in Baghdad kills 2 and wounds 4.
HEY BEBE -- glad you and liddy joined us. I will have to remember that dildo bit next time I am talking about "appropriate platforms!
And for whatever its worth -- I hear that if you run 'em off a Sears Diehard you will get amazing production off of either platform!
B7 is only beat by ST:TOC + Dr Who in my personal hall of Sci-Fi greatness.
I'm sorry, but I have to rank Babylon 5 ahead of it as well.
Do I need to back up anything else? Don't I just need to worry about "irreplacable" stuff like docs and pics?
I migrated from an old computer, to a used computer, to my new computer in a twelve month period.
My change to my new computer only took two hours, including the hour driving to and from Best Buy, and the time picking it out. I credit that to having good backups of what was important.
What you are leaving out is backing up your internet "favorites", and your email "address book". You may also want to back up your email. I also keep in my favorites a "computer" folder which has all the links of where to download Adaware, Spybot, MS downloads, and my virus protection.
Also, instead of CD backup for my most important stuff, I use a USB flashdrive since they are so cheap and backup faster. If you have a huge music or photo library, then yeah, CD backup makes sense.
Am I the only one who found it jarring to see Servilan as a secretary in How To Get Ahead In Advertising? (Great, great, movie
BTW)
Check her out in the opening of
"White Mischief" (great movie, BTW).
She's naked and her only dialogue
is (I'm paraphrasing from memory)
"What do I have to do to get somebody
to fuck me?"
Wow.
She's every bad actress who ever tried
to steal a scene with her hips.
And I mean that as a compliment.
Easy now, people. One kind of computer isn't the best thing for everyone. Not everyone likes Macs, and not everyone can build their own machine. I'm not going to claim my iBook G4 is the best computer EVER, but it is the best for me. Plus it runs Warcraft 3, so I'm set.
I think research is essential before any kind of major purchase to determine what you're getting for your money, but that doesn't excuse Sony's piss-poor behaviour toward John. Consider my letter sent.
Oh, and if anyone calls one of Mac's 1-800 numbers, you may just get people from my neck of the woods, Peterborough Ontario. Say hi to them for me.
bebe rebozo 1:59 re: kerosene powered dildo
now I know Mrs Leary's cow got a bum rap for burning Chicago down back in the day.
Yes, I can almost see it...Bob was at an Archer Daniels Midland board meeting, and Strommy was at a lynching back home, and, well, nature called...
TJ: that doesn't surprise me at all. if it looks like a fascist, talks like a fascist...besides, who knows what plans (LIHOP II) are already in the works that they didn't want any drunken thug slurring out carelessly to a reporter? not that it would be allowed to make the news...
count me in with the crowd that says SG is booooooooring. the movie was really stupid, and i felt even stupider for the two hours i wasted trying to get into the show.
ah, the Tom Baker days...how i miss them.
I'd heard of B7 since it was actually on the air, but I didn't start watching it until about 2 years ago via p2p. It took a few eps to get used to, but soon I was watching 2-3 eps a day.
"This scares me. Seriously, go check it out.
TJ "
We did win the cold war right? Cause it keeps seeming more like Kruschev was right.
I cannot understand my dad, this is the crap he always warned about. It is what he spent a lifetime fighting against. And he voted for these people.
These people are simply Corporate Communists. Using red for the Republican votes seemed far to appropriate. The Reds are coming.
Benefits are going away. Free Speech is being stifled. Wars are fought without scrutiny. The leaders are enriched and privileged. Academics are ostracized. Liberals are evil. The only difference is the establishment of a national religion that in reality is dogmatic propoganda. Rhetoric is agressive and jingoistic. Failures are vast successes, the incompetent heralded as geniuses. Jobs are servile and cheap. Imperialistic views are groovy. The dollar is shakey. The military complex is holy and people die for the "cause".
What more do we need to call this a communist country?
spinoza:
That'll work, too. Or you could combine the two.
I know between 50-100 people personally who use Macs (it's required in my grad school program, plus I'm friends with a lot of photographers, filmmakers, designers and musicians, and Mac is the standard in these fields) and I can't think of any of them that have had serious hardware problems with their computers in the last 3-4 years. And I'm the tech guy they all call when they have a question. I tell anyone that I meet if they have any questions about their Mac, they can contact me.
And you know what? It's not a big deal, since there are rarely problems. And when there are, the solutions are always real simple.
Someone saying "OS X crashes" is like someone saying "Windows crashes". Which one? Windows 3.1 or Windows 98?
OS X has been out for about 5 years. There have been four major releases, and each release has been refined about 8 times with free software updates. So unless you're using OS X 10.3.7, the latest release, you're asking for trouble. You might as well be using Windows ME.
I can pretty much assume that everyone who's complaining about Macs here is NOT using 10.3.7.
And you know what? If you know anyone that has the 10.3 discs, you can borrow them. Since Apple doesn't do ANY FORM of activation or serial number registration or anti-pirarcy protection of ANY KIND, it's a cinch to break the law and get your machine up-to-date. Apple will look the other way, as they always have. They trust their users.
Windows is ultimately a derivation of DOS. Mac OS X is derived from UNIX. Anyone who says DOS is better than UNIX, them's fightin' words.
Microsoft makes shitty software, and it encourages these box makers to make shitty boxes.
Two: The reason you shouldn't hope for the best performance when building your own system is that "name-brand" machines are optimised at the component level,
Stop my house with your Dell, we'll race.
My home built machines are far superior to a stock/mass market/over-priced system.
Eli- The Drazi Sunhawk is modeled after Liberator, the ship in B7. JMS is a huge fan. I think it's his favorite show.
'Scuse me ???
You are an idiot. Considering the fact that Mac can run the majority of open source software products, the fact that they have the MS office suite, and all of the Adobe products....
Your comment was idiotic. #1, the majority of software is useless. There are only say 5 programs that are truly useful and they run on macs. If you are into open source software, then some 98% of the software for open source will run on your mac if it runs os X.
The fact is this. Windows makes things difficult.... buy a Mac if you want an easy computer experience... else, STOP F-ING COMPLAINING!
Check her out in the opening of
"White Mischief" (great movie, BTW).
I *saw* White Mischief, and I totally do not remember that. Probably just as well, really...
I was just thinking, that this thread has certainly gotten to, or near to at least, Godwin's Point, and what do I see? mr. bill's post at 01.29.05 - 2:02 pm. YES!!! Thank you!
The end.
Not everyone likes Macs, and not everyone can build their own machine.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, that's kind of an understatment, isn't it? I think that platform represents less than 5% of the market. No, the rest of the world was not "forced" to buy PCs. I ain't saying that free markets are the solution for everything -- just saying...
Of course, I will try to be open minded about it and respectful -- maybe they do know more than the rest of us. I am just still waiting to see -- thanks!
What more do we need to call this a communist country?
EkCenTriK
Jammies. Them commies wear bitching jammies!
Windows is ultimately a derivation of DOS. Mac OS X is derived from UNIX. Anyone who says DOS is better than UNIX, them's fightin' words.
Yeah, maybe Windows 3.1 or Win 95, but modern Windows is NOT based on DOS.
To say so is just silly.
DOS has been out of the Windows picture since 2000 at least.
What more do we need to call this a communist country?
EkCenTriK | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 2:11 pm | #
gov't sponsored health insurance for everyone?
chicago dyke
I said Coummunist, not socialist.
Besides, we're not engaging in stupid platform wars anymore. This has now become Sci-Fi geekville, thank you very much.
FWIW, I just received this "scary" threat on the other thread:
Now I will steal your name, fucker.
ulrike meinhof
So, if any schizo posts show up in the next 3-4 hours purporting to defend the "mainstream" left (whatever that might be) by bashing Naomi Klein or something, it ain't me.
BTW, I don't namesteal, and whoever does it to pie (repeatedly) ought to be hung upside down and gutted.
-
Say Lukas (2:12 pm)-- what's your email? Can I contact you about my G5 hassles? That is, if I don't return it for another? Thanks! (I'm afraid that my Powerbook problems are too long in the past. Besides, its fourth drive hasn't crapped out yet.)
Okay let me rephrase that, when are we going to decide that is a despotic and debauched totalitarian regieme? I prefer calling them Communists by dint of their behavior, not necessarily their governmental system.
DOS has been out of the Windows picture since 2000 at least.
BlakNo1
Yep, may have even been Win 98.
Eli- The Drazi Sunhawk is modeled after Liberator, the ship in B7. JMS is a huge fan. I think it's his favorite show.
Cool! I did not know that. There were enough years between my B7 viewing and my B5 viewing, that I wouldn't have recognized the Liberator if it smacked me in the face.
atrios: john is getting a new machine tuesday. everyone go read his newest post.
collective action is POWER!!! LONG LIVE THE BLOGS!
The PsyCorps uniforms were definitely inspired by B7 Federation uniforms, that's for sure.
I adore Jackie Pearce!
MAXIMUM POWER!!!
Sorry -- I can't resist, but I probably should have refrained.
I just love it when people tell me how much better their mac is and how much better their OS is, and yet they need to run MS Office Suite to have decent productivity tools.
I ain't saying its wrong; I'm just saying.
On platform wars...
Hmmm I live in a Wintel world at work. the day I no longer have to support such, I go completely Mac and Linux.
My current pet is an IBook. I know so little about it, but it has been a comfort. And that is what I am looking for. It just does what I ask it, it doesn't send me into a night of fiddling, patch updates, configuration conflicts and general distress.
The day someone creates a true MS Access killer is the day the MS Office product becomes pedestrian.
everyone go read his newest post.
Uh oh.
I just read his post. Excellent!! Good for him!!
I'm just saying.
And saying, and saying, and saying.
The day someone creates a true MS Access killer is the day the MS Office product becomes pedestrian.
Yes. My ideal would be something just like MS Access, but with all the broken/sucky parts taken out and replaced with stuff that works.
when are we going to decide that is a despotic and debauched totalitarian regieme?
EkC: my advisor has been doing work in totalitarianism and religion for some time now, and i asked him recently, "are you willing to call them fascists yet?"
he said yes. he's the smartest man i know, and has studied plenty of regimes and even wrote a book comparing bush's and bin laden's use of religious rhetoric. he doesn't use his terms lightly or without serious consideration.
his advice to me: agitate.
I don't namesteal, and whoever does it to pie (repeatedly) ought to be hung upside down and gutted.
IMHO, kind of severe, but I guess it is a problem around here now. How about instead, we just force them to use a "you fill in this blank" computer platform with a "you fill in the blank" operating system.
See what gets done when we help each other out?
Totally OT, but I can't help it:
Sully the Pooh just declared what
would -- for him -- constitute
success in the Iraqi elections.
Drum roll:
Less than 500 voters murdered.
Words fail me.
OT, but the allegedly center-left Atlanta Journal-Constitution has published a story today about how misunderstood pooor pooor SpongeDob has been. (click homepage to link)
I had been wondering if we should, hereafter, refer to his organization as "Focus on the Sphincter."
Now I know it's the Right Thing To Do.
Less than 500 voters murdered.
What a douche!!
MS Office Suite to have decent productivity tools.
bullshit. the only reason i keep the MS suite on my mac is because occasionally i have to format someone else's work at home. for all other writing, i use appleworks. and it converts MS files well, has plenty of the same features, and hasn't given me a problem since i bought the machine.
it's the general laziness and cowardliness of most business managers that keeps MS in everyone's pie. any real analysis of productivity will demonstrate that there are almost always better products out there. it's the constant whining, 'but everyone uses it!' that is MS best protection. people can be such lemmings at times.
Less than 500 voters murdered.
In the grand Murkan tradition of a peaceful-enough transition of power. Those 499 dead will be heros, I tells ya!
"his advice to me: agitate."
Suggestions? So far most of what people do is put off as nostalgic nonsense from the 60's and/or unamerican values.
I have two people who have been becoming more distressed and their smugness is dying as I re-cap events and people. But I need something to put them over the top. We all need that. We need something to snap that Clarity of Vision into place. Something that shows them that the world of sports, beer commercials, DVD's and MP3's, golf and endless hours of TV, tabloid journalism and cheap gas, big cars, short skirts and once a week redemption is under threat.
Sully sure sets the bar high.
I see Hewitt is complaining that the left side blogs are not singing the praises of the Iraqi election, how dare they.
Bill Gates is ditching the dollar after helping Bush bankrupt America.
And Dell gave Bush tons of loot.
Sony? Don't know. Got to look up who they bankroll in the Leader of America game.
Finally I wish we could all be as perfect as the arrogant prick Mr. Blecht. Sounds like Sony's tech support is full of Blechts.
renato | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 11:38 am | #
Although I did apologize downthread from my first post for coming across as arrogant, I would much rather come across that way than snotty, Mr. Renato.
Asshole.
See what gets done when we help each other out?
BlakNo1 | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 2:30 pm | #
it's getting more and more clear that we are a force to be respected. we're starting to really trust and believe in each other, and ourselves, and our ability to get real shit done. sinclair, dean, lott- real truth to power kind of action. i hope everyone reflects upon this today.
Personally for Database-ing, I still use FoxPro. It is fast, quick to develop and rock solid. But it is not an end user tool. I trust nothing else on my systems at the office for mission critical work. MS Access, even as a SQL front end simply pisses me off in the long run.
Visual FoxPro that is....
Fuck this shit. How about Galactica. New vs old?
New, for now. But back in 4th grade I was a diehard old Galactica fan. I was actually a bit turned off at the concept of a new series. But must say it is damn good. I think I finally suckered my wife into liking it last night. Yehaa! Nothing like sharing geekiness with the lil' woman.
Suggestions? So far most of what people do is put off as nostalgic nonsense from the 60's and/or unamerican values.
1. turn off the tv
2. ask around, and find out who in your 'hood is 'on your side' politically. get to know them. build up the level of trust between you and your neighbors and friends, starting by discussing issues that affect you at home and locally.
3. join a party (but not the nazi party! go to meetings, make phone calls to party leaders, let them know you're watching and demand they do the right thing whenever a vote or proposal comes up.
4. write letters to your local publications, calling them out for their lies and obfuscations.
5. stop buying anything you don't honestly need, start saving and investing in local businesses if you have the extra income.
6. talk to people. strangers and coworkers. pick an issue you are most excited about, or most reasonable, and bring it up into the conversation whenever possible. be your own meme generator.
7. pass out the address of this and other liberal sites to everyone who'll take it.
it's the general laziness and cowardliness of most business managers that keeps MS in everyone's pie.
Oh, I see -- everyone else is wrong and if they would only "see the light." Glad you have access to the software you want, however, for whatever reason you want. Thanks for setting me straight
"the lil' woman"
When you say that, is it a mandatory night on the sofa?
In my world it is.
And my wife still won't let me call her "my old lady" despite the fact she is 11 years my senior and 1.5 years from 60.
No justice.
Tomorrow is January 30, which we can hope will mean a change in A&E's ad in the corner on Monday.
Thoughts:
Lime Ricky - Like that one! Good job.
Blak1 Hell, any show that features comely British ladies in leather as Blake's 7 did is all right in my book.
Backups: Unless you are loading new software, just save the directory where your work resides. Takes about a five minutes. Simply go to Window's Explorer and copy the directory to the CD Burner.
Atrios:If only computers were that simple. My engineer friend and I were talking about the fact that as much as they want to claim it: computers are not turn-key. It behooves the person to learn a little of the jargon and some of the tricks. Not that much either, enough to understand your basic file structure and how to burn a data CD seems little enough to ask for.
I can't be the only one getting a "404 - not found" error...
Original Galactica was on the air when I was 11. That age or younger was probably the best age for that show, as I find it unwatchable now. Needless to say, the new show is the opposite of the old in every way.
I can't wait for the new season!
Sony's suckage appears to have abated some; they're sending him a new drive Fedex. A little Eschatonian intimidation seems to have done the trick.
I click on the link to John's original post and Blogger can't find his blog.
Also, the AJC link (SpongeDob) invites me to search in the "paid archives" section. Perhaps my mouse should be on a different platform, er, mousepad.
Steve S: How does a sane person (we'll leave out Sully, naturally) arrive at such a number? 499 deaths = rousing success? 501 = shocking cock-up? And what's the conversion rate of Iraqi vs. American deaths?
Anybody know a cheaper brand of brain-bleach to stock up on?
stop buying anything you don't honestly need, start saving and investing in local businesses if you have the extra income.
Like MS Office Suite?
no- Just scroll down to the blogroll, that's what I did.
Macs I've known* & loved:
Centris 610 (built my first webserver on it, with Chuck Shotton's help)
Color Classic II (my 1st real PC purchase)
PowerMac 6100 (1st self-biz webserver)
Powerbook 520c (my 1st lappy!)
Several iMacs
My choices at home, now:
Homebrewed 3.0GHz P4 Prescott (MSI mobo, 1G/RAM; used primarily for audio/video work)
Toshiba Satellite 1.5GHz Celeron (all stuff Internets)
Both of the above on WinXP SP2.
*either owned or had at work
.
"the lil' woman"
When you say that, is it a mandatory night on the sofa?
Actually I use the term in an endearing way. Im 6'3 and my wife is 5' even. So she is my lil' woman.
BREAKING NEWS
Trapped Man Pees His Way Out Of Avalanche (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/
sm_1261997.html?menu)
More at 10...
Original Galactica was on the air when I was 11. That age or younger was probably the best age for that show, as I find it unwatchable now.
Agreed on that. I think you had to be very young or very baked to enjoy the old series. Sci-Fi ran some of the old episodes, and even by my cheeze-lovin standards it was awful (aside from minor nostalgia value). What the f*ck were they thinking with that robotic dog?
Apple products have flaws. PC products have flaws. Nobody is perfect. I think Macs are generally of higher quality (I've owned them for 15 years and they never crapped out on me) but they can also break sometimes.
So no, Macs are not perfect. Except when it comes to viruses. Then they do have a very clean record.
Mac tech support is pretty damn good, especially if you are near an Apple Store. The NY Times gushes about it here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/2...html?
oref=login
Since America's Memory lurks and reads every single post on these threads hoping to catch himself mentioned, I thought I would.
I see Hewitt is complaining that the left side blogs are not singing the praises of the Iraqi election, how dare they.
The Iraqis are having a real election?
Wow.
If that's happening at the same time as that tragic farce that Nero is dressing up as "democracy," that's going to get a lot of people confused.
"it's the general laziness and cowardliness of most business managers that keeps MS in everyone's pie. any real analysis of productivity will demonstrate that there are almost always better products out there. it's the constant whining, 'but everyone uses it!' that is MS best protection. people can be such lemmings at times."
Mr. Bill I agree with him to a great extent. of course there are good things in the MS world. The problem is a lot of bad shuffled in because of that very aspect. It is amazing how Microsoft can cut deals when their product is about to be ditched, or the freebies that show up. Then there is the simple force of the end user who has to have it at work because they have it at home. Then there are the stupid document standards, "I can't open this email attachment up" was a constant when the Word Perfect versus Word wars were on. Then there is the Bullshit IE versus Standards based browsers. Business people don't get it, if MS has stayed with standards and insinuated their hooks into IE, convinced people that what should be an open standard was deficient, then we would not have apps that require MS only for the desk top. I have an app that is going web based tools and because of the hooks, I have to maintain a lot of expensive to support MS machines in lieu of simply using a Linux system for simple web work. Disgusting. I am surprised people like the app developers haven't figured out that if the customer can toss the Wintel unit out with the all the hassles, upgrade costs, licenses (wrokstation and server) that their product may look very attractive price wise. I have no issue with spending solid money on a server based app, but I am getting tired of the MS aspect driving my desktop.
investing in local businesses
On a more serious note -- what makes people think that a local business person ALWAYS better to support than a chain. The politics that one ends up supporting with each dollar we spend is not based soley on size -- I can find local business people that use the profits from their business to support things that are just as bad or worse than some larger operations.
Please don't tell me the money stays local either -- definitely not always true. I do agree, however, that the only "vote" we have that really might count is how we choose to spend our money and whom we choose to support with it.
I can find local businesses that do no more for their community or the public good than the big box people -- after all, didn't some of these big box people start as local businesses?
Re: Terms of Endearment
Folks talk about their spouses as being their 'better half.' In the case of the last (in all respects) MrsWGG, however, i would be less than candid if i did not admit that she was far the larger fraction...
just sayin...
Sweet jesus people. There are 275 posts on this subject. Is it enough?
Like MS Office Suite?
And saying, and saying, and saying.
Except when it comes to viruses.
ummmmmmmmmmmmm, and why would anti-social, criminal types want to write a virus for a mac and, at best, infect less than 5% of the computers in the world -- kind of defeats the point, doesn't it.
No, this is not really a mac/pc issue either -- but go ahead if you must.
Wow, sorry for the typos, been doing some painting and I think the primer is hitting me a bit.
"What the f*ck were they thinking with that robotic dog?"
I liked that one episode when Starbuck, I think it was, got marooned on that desert planet with that Cyclon that shot him down and they reluctantly became friends and depended on each other to survive. I thought that was just about the best episode ever!
And saying, and saying, and saying.
'scuse me -- just waiting for the next thread out of this town. Didn't you see my posts about the man peeing his way our of the avalanche or the bush/hitler connection.
Just saying...
very young or very baked
Very young, trust me.
ok bill, you wanna go? i'm in a fightin' mood today.
Oh, I see -- everyone else is wrong and if they would only "see the light."
so i work in a big office that uses dells. my corporation (a university actually) has some kind of contract where we get new machines almost every year, but always dells. they work well enough i suppose, although our main piece of software relating to the work i do is shite and frequently crashes all machines upon which it is installed.
the most recent round of machines came installed with Windoze Media player. it replaced media player classic, with which i had come to enjoy the sounds of my favorite commercial free station, www.somafm.com. WMP will not open pls files, which is what they use at soma, and at the same time, WMP makes it somehow impossible to make MPclassic run after WMP is installed.
only our system admin can install new software, so i can't get real player or quicktime here at work. i sent the tech guys an email asking them wassup, and in that email i added a little snark. something like, "and thanks so much for the talking dog OS, it's not only slower, and buggier, but it's constantly popping up with unhelpful info about my oh-so-important toolbar and the like."
the next day, my boss, my boss' boss, and the office IT guy all got PHONE CALLS demanding to know why i was daring to ask a question about changing software. i'm a model employee, have been for 8 years, and these wankers were suggesting to my boss that i should lose my job for "improper use" of office machines.
never mind that my point was valid (the new OS is much slower) or that i really do need a player for the job (kids are sending music files more and more as part of their applications). never mind that this is supposed to be a place in which inquiry is free, and critical. the only thing that matters: don't piss off the IT guys. they are special.
you remind me of them.
"I see Hewitt is complaining that the left side blogs are not singing the praises of the Iraqi election, how dare they."
As I recall, they had elections in Vietnam too. It was just a way to try to legitimaze a war based on pure lies, same as today.
We tried converting to Appleworks at the office, because my MacWritePro won't work anymore and the other writer despises MSWord. Within a day we found that sending rtfs from Appleworks' word processor arrived at their destinations either (a) unopenable or (b) gibberish. To be fair, we've occasionally had similar problems with anything going between a Mac and a PC -- quotation marks being converted into superscript numerals, etc.
The entire business world, which many of us must interface with, is not gonna run out and refit with Macs that will run OSX. We're having a difficult enough time with converting to OSX in an all-Mac department because of the cost of the upgrade AND the updated software required.
darlings were are in the Model-T phase of computing machines. Goggles and cranks still required. Of course things go ~spronggg~.
Afternoon, freethinkers
PCs and virii? Not me, ever. Saw 'em in action at the last Fortune 500 outfit for which I worked, but they allowed far too many stupid users far too much freedom. After a few days downtime, that came to a screeching halt, heh. I've paid for my own Internets connection at home continually since 1994, much of it broadband, and the nastiest thing I've ever had to contend with is a tracking cookie.
But I will admit that I've probably got a few more IT smarts than your average Dell/Sony Vaio/Gateway consumer...
.
ok bill, you wanna go? i'm in a fightin' mood today.
Well, I am sure we could find lots of areas we agree on and try to extend that dialog -- but we can argue about platforms instead. IMHO, kind of like the coke-pepsi thing, but that one can be fun too.
I liked the comments you posted about halliburton and Iran (that was you, wasn't it -- I can't bring myself to reread this thread). There some IMPORTANT issues there - but I guess when I have computer problems, those are important to me too.
Do ya want to "fight" about the link I posted about pee?
Oh, BTW, Hillary Clinton just got herself reelected in 2006.
The contract for the presidential helicopter is big news upstate, and Hillary was very visibly involved in the lobbying for it.
Bringing back the pork is usually how Senators are really judged by constituents, so the GOP's already eroding upstate NY advantage just took another one on the chin. And since Holy Joe's Connecticut got beat out on the contract, that's tough luck for him.
Scuse me, I gotta go get baked with my guests now. I'll be back to derail another thread with geek talk later. Maybe, I'll start talking about Tomorrow People!
I am surprised people like the app developers haven't figured out that if the customer can toss the Wintel unit out with the all the hassles, upgrade costs, licenses (wrokstation and server) that their product may look very attractive price wise.
you mean like the gov't of china?
QuiltLady/ yes, why do people go out of their way to make things so difficult? i read a little here and there, went to an electronics store, had everything hooked up the next day without fuss or muss. and believe you me, i was/am tech challenged. but just like someone said up thread, i didn't buy a toyota expecting to use it like a hummer or f 350!
Good news, everyone: Sullypooh has revised his standards for success in the Iraqi elections to fewer than 200 murders.
Since some of you seemed interested, here's what Hewitt has to say:
What has Michael Moore got to say? A big picture of Saddam, an artilce on former Baathists running in the leections, and a letter about his 9/11 picture winning a People's Choice award --I kid you not.
Over at TalkingPointsMemo, silence. At The Daily Kos at this hour, the lead post is on Sadr shunning the vote. "So, not all Shias are happy with the Election it seems," is the conclusion. Matthew Ygleisas is posting on the vice president's parka, and is silent on the voting. Atrios has lots of cat-blogging and snippiness. Kevin Drum has nothing recent either. A few posts dow there is a link to a story on the ring around Zarqawi closing and the comment "We've heard this before from the Iraqis, and it hasn't been true yet. Still, here's hoping it pans out this time."
The party of Truman and JFK has a problem when its advance media guard does not celebrate the rise of a democracy from the ashes of a dictatorship. More than a problem, actually, a collapse at the core. It is now, at best, the party of Henry Wallace and Teddy Kennedy, and that's not a party remotely close to the American mainstream.
Seems like the guy could afford spellchecker. And the "rise of democracy from the ashes" line, he needs to put down the crack pipe.
I liked that one episode when Starbuck, I think it was, got marooned on that desert planet with that Cyclon that shot him down and they reluctantly became friends and depended on each other to survive. I thought that was just about the best episode ever!
Boomer
Why does that remind me of Barry B Longtear's Enemy Mine? (Great story, pretty good movie)
Good news, everyone: Sullypooh has revised his standards for success in the Iraqi elections to fewer than 200 murders.
Woohoo!!! The occupation *is* a success!
chicago dyke
it will please you to know than that Ba'al just fired one of the IT guys in our academic unit for not having a sufficiently "customer friendly" approach, faculty and postdocs being his customers.
Good news, everyone: Sullypooh has revised his standards for success in the Iraqi elections to fewer than 200 murders.
Grey Psoda | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 2:59 pm | #
Jesus mary and joseph.
What a tool he is....
bill, 'fighting' on a blog just means extra snark. get used to it around here.
On a more serious note -- what makes people think that a local business person ALWAYS better to support than a chain
i can't believe you really mean this as it sounds. when i say local, i mean local, owned and operated by people who live in your 'hood. hopefully, you can tell which ones take your money and give it to some big corporation overseas and which ones don't.
i don't really have a problem with big business, just the way they are draining this country dry at the moment. with regulation, i'm all for companies that are large, stable, and employ lots of americans. too bad we don't have those anymore.
Sullypooh has revised his standards for success in the Iraqi elections to fewer than 200 murders.
Sounds like typical propaganda -- through out a bad number and proclaim it is good. Then, backtrack on that number and say things are even better. Now, after the election, no matter what happens, they can tell us, "well we expected trouble."
Its chimpy's up-is-down world.
it will please you to know than that Ba'al just fired one of the IT guys in our academic unit for not having a sufficiently "customer friendly" approach, faculty and postdocs being his customers.
How was the aroma?
I think maybe the goal is to shift the measure of electoral success to body count instead of accuracy.
Which also makes our own elections look a lot better.
ba'al, i hope you can perceive the pleasing aroma of my fury and gratitude. one snotty, whining IT "support" tech sacrifice at a time, i say.
bill, 'fighting' on a blog just means extra snark. get used to it around here.
thanks, though I do know that. I am sure we can find better things for discourse, however.
New open thread.
Ew-nay ed-thray.
Mr. Bill / oh boy revise that list of things to carry in the car during the winter monthes; blanket,small shovel, jumper cables, snacks and water, flashlight, beer to piss your way out of an avalanche!
"And the "rise of democracy from the ashes" line, he needs to put down the crack pipe."
The only thing rising over there is the death toll. As for the "ashes" part, well, he's right about that. We created a lot of those. I liked them better when they were little boys and girls, though.
This election is a sham, just like the one they had in Vietnam. They are trying to bring legitimacy to a war based on lies. It will never work.
Stop the massacre. Bring the troops home. Let Iraq be free.
Silleigh, from the last thread:
Also, the AJC link (SpongeDob) invites me to search in the "paid archives" section. Perhaps my mouse should be on a different platform, er, mousepad.
I know the AJC requires registration but I didn't realize it required a paid subscription to access that article. Here's a coupla chunks:
'Family Feud'
Your questions answered: Dr. James Dobson didn't actually say SpongeBob is gay. Here's the real story.
Rodney Ho - Staff
Saturday, January 29, 2005
The American Family Association has nothing against SpongeBob SquarePants --- or his alleged sexual orientation.
"I love SpongeBob," said Ed Vitagliano, a researcher at the Tupelo, Miss., organization. "It's a very funny show. I watch it with my 15-year-old."
Vitagliano is the man who, indirectly, sparked the whole SpongeBob brouhaha with an article in the conservative Christian group's journal in mid-December.
About a month later, the whole mess became an official media frenzy when Dr. James Dobson, founder of a similarly conservative group called Focus on the Family, accused We Are Family Foundation of exploiting SpongeBob and other TV and cartoon characters in a "pro-homosexual video." From Fox News to "Good Morning America," from newspaper editorials to online blogs, the issue got twisted and flogged and joked about.
The story ended up being, "Is SpongeBob gay?"
But that isn't the story.
How did this controversy start?
The We Are Family Foundation announced plans in November to distribute a DVD version of the video to 61,000 elementary schools.
Vitagliano, an editor at American Family Foundation, saw an Associated Press story about the video Nov. 16. He spied the words "tolerance" and "diversity" in the story.
"Those are often code words to promote homosexuality when related to education," he said.
Vitagliano wrote a story for the AFA Journal that came out in mid-December. A few Christian news Web sites followed up, but no mainstream media outlets picked it up.
That probably would have ended it, but Focus on the Family's Dobson on Jan. 18 made a reference to the video at a black-tie dinner with congressional types and media --- including The New York Times.
Did Dobson say SpongeBob SquarePants is gay?
Not at all. He never even implied it. But SpongeBob was the only character in the video he mentioned at the dinner. In a Jan. 20 New York Times story, Dobson is quoted as asking, "Does anybody here know SpongeBob?" He accused We Are Family of hijacking SpongeBob to create a "pro-homosexual video." He cited a "tolerance pledge" on the We Are Family Web site that included tolerance of "sexual identity."
i can't believe you really mean this as it sounds. when i say local, i mean local, owned and operated by people who live in your 'hood.
Most of the local "business people" don't live in many of our "hoods" nor do they support progressive causes -- sure, I would support those that do in a heartbeat.
I am just trying to say that when some of the local business scream "KEEP OUT WALMART!" and "SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESS" they are sometimes just protecting their little "kingdom" and I don't get jobs that pay any better (certainly the benefits are not better, but that is another issue), nor do I see them support meaningful, positive change. But don't take my word for it -- find out what the manufacturers association and other business associations (usually not the small guys) are actively supporting.
oops. Meant to go in the new thread...
beer to piss your way out of an avalanche!
try to explain that one to the state trooper.
PCs and virii?
Ragger!
Ba'al
So what did the I.T. guy do or not do to put him on the fire?
Sony's suckage not addressed:
All this ragging on Sony degenerating into computer talk. Why is nobody upset that they Continue to push proprietary Media Formats un unwitting consumers. Rember Beta? I hate harping on about that old deal but they Keep Doing It. "Memory Stick" and "MiniDisc" and "Blu-Ray" are all annoying sony brands that _your_ data/music/videos and lock it down so you can only read it if sony says you can. Which, by the way, they assent to on much less favourable terms to do than any of the competition in the big media consolidation business. Wish I'd bought an iPod instead of a Minidisc!
Everyone makes shitty computers. Everybody adds proprietary bells and whistles to sell them. Sony is the best at pushing annoying new media formats that are bad for their customers.
End Rant.
COSTCO has a generous return policy for computers: 6 months, no questions asked.
(It used to be indefinite but freshmen would buy computers and then return them senior year and vacation on the refund! )
"I just love it when people tell me how much better their mac is and how much better their OS is, and yet they need to run MS Office Suite to have decent productivity tools.
I ain't saying its wrong; I'm just saying."
What's with these super lame justifications to snipe at Apple (or is it just the users you disdain?)?
That's about the weakest attempt yet.
It fails in so many ways.
Here's one-What does Office have to do with an OS?
sony still sucks tho.
"I ain't saying its wrong; I'm just saying."
and
"I just love it when people tell me how much better their mac is and how much better their OS is, and yet they need to run MS Office Suite to have decent productivity tools."
THIS IS JUST DILBERT MANAGEMENT STUPID!!
1. The Office suite hasn't added anything new that acutally helps its users since its inception. Its just plain crap. The only thing it has done has been to create new formats each year that make the previous year obsolete... and YOU MORONS KEEP BUYING THAT CRAP.
2. You can get free office tools (openoffice.org, and the kdeoffice ) that do just as good a job.
3. The only way that windows displays ANY superiority in terms of software is in GAMES.
Ask ANY gamer who does any serious online multiplayer environements what OS they run their games on and they will say windows. In addition, if you ask these serious gamers if they paid for that crappy windows they are running the majority will say no...and in addition, if you ask those gamers if they would prefer to run a FASTER OS like Linux the majority say YES as well.
4. All of the other software products run faster with less problems (crashes) on the Unix variants.
5. Windows F-ing crashes ALL THE TIME. Unix systems have gone through years of refinement that prevents page faults and memory access errors from bringing down the entire system. This is why Os x has so few probs , same with Free BSD (which OsX is based off of) , Linux, Solaris...etc. I installed a brand new win2k distribution and it crashed within 1 week.
Except for the high end graphics programs such as Maya, 3D max, autocad...the majority of the programs that you idiots go gaga about like foxpro and Access , have open source versions that kick the crap out of them in terms of performance, usability...etc.
You suck Sony!
There. You happy now?
Jimi: 5. Windows F-ing crashes ALL THE TIME.
Yeah, I used to have that problem, too. XP's treated me very nice. Completely crash-free since I've been using it. I do have a problem with the Toshiba laptop... after 5-8 hrs., it mysteriously is no longer able to establish a connection with my wireless access point. It looks like the connection is there, but ping won't find anything, browser can't find anything, etc. So, once a day, I have to reboot it, and life is back to being good again.
.
Yeah, well KOBOL totally rips BASIC a new one!! Put that sand in your ass and pound it, boyeeee!!!!!
TRS-80 is teh ROXXORRR!!!1LOL1!!!
> Tell Sony they suck
simple, concise, to the point.
Can't say anything good about Sony electronics anymore. As someone noted waay upthread, I've had Sony car stereos, vcr's and amps/tuners that have ALL developed some sort of bs problem that has needed service within a couple years of buying it.
Will never buy another Sony product until they can somehow begin to regain their once good reputation for quality.
I just love it when people tell me how much better their mac is and how much better their OS is, and yet they need to run MS Office Suite to have decent productivity tools.
Ha. Haha. Hahahahaha.
Here's why I'm laughing: Word and Excel and then the bundling package known as Office were originally created for MACINTOSH. Not PC. PC users were so jealous of them that they asked Gates to make PC versions of them. So, once again, Mac leads, PC follows.
And Mac is still ahead of the curve with Office goodies. We've had three full versions of Office since 2001. PC is still stuck with the old Office XP they've been using since then.
LJ -
You're funny. Just made me laugh too!
As far as the Mac vs PC debate, someone send me a Power Mac G5 dual, with lots of RAM, big HD, big monitor, and I will perform a comparison with my PC and report which is better.
David (Austin Tx)
Negative. I'm having way too much fun listening to y'all endlessly whine about the lastest security glitch in your spambot-riddled, virus-infested M$ bloatware...
BTW, I'm a tech support guy, and the first thing I thought when I read that is duh. Bad HD. Replace it. And I've NEVER done OEM support.
For those suggesting an Apple, while some of their stores have great service, their over-the-phone support is questionable, more deny deny deny and punt to 3rd party software makers.
And anybody who thinks that OS X is more stable...well...having a central file that controls all file extensions and permissions is risky at best, and to be honest is just asking for trouble with a capital T. And not just reinstall said application/OS type issues...
Format drive and call me in the morning type issues.
Windows is ultimately a derivation of DOS. Mac OS X is derived from UNIX. Anyone who says DOS is better than UNIX, them's fightin' words.
That used to be true on the consumer OS side through Windows ME. Actually the current versions of Windows from 2000 on are based on Windows NT which has a derivative of AIX (IBM's Unix) under the hood. It was born of a dispute between IBM and Microsoft over OS/2 (which started out as a joint IBM/Microsoft project).
Mac OSX is based on Darwin, an open source Unix derivative came from NeXt, Steve Jobs' other company when Apple acquired it. It has a BSD kernel and a lot of the framework but that's about all it shares with BSD.
Bottom line, it's all a Unix based world. The only real difference between them has to do with how easily you can tweak the underpinnings like recompiling the kernel and implement custom configurations like memory management. Windows is the most difficult, followed by MacOSX then Solaris with the easiest being the open source variants. The rest is all marketing, branding, & PR.
I've worked with pretty much all of them including some of the more obscure distributions of Linux (anyone heard of Slackware?) and all I can say is use the one that best suits YOUR needs & preferences and stop worrying about what everyone else is using.
At the end of the day John's problem was due to a combination of faulty hardware and Sony being cheap on support. He got the right ear to listen and reminded them that when someone is happy they tell one friend but when they're upset they tell thousands. I've used that argument in the past with great success in the days before blogs became all the rage.
Hey, I just got here, and I have nothing to add to the discussion, so I'll just say the link is bloggered.
WGG,
Excuse me, son.
Pickup and a pine tree? Um, kay.
But there is a WORLD of difference between my Dodges (and yeah, some of mine are old) and the POS being sold off the FoMazHonGMC lots these days.
Of course, the newest thing I have is a 1997 pickup.
Where else have we helped with elections?
Central America? VietNam? Iran's Shah?
Time to link up the historical comparisons and the companies (Halliburton, GE, IBM, etc.) that took part in some infrastructure support.
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