I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Reynolds for cum laude wanker!
first methinks
guess not
froth?
n70dd r0012.
woohoo-no more baseball cards!
I got nothin'.
.
Hey, over here, me, me, me, it's all about me...Yoo-Hoo...!
YAY! I plant the flag on this sixth-or-later thread and hereby declare this a troll-free, OS-free thread!
Andrew Sullivan is a sack of shit.
Admittedly, not funny, but heartfelt.
Attaturk, what have I always told you about blogwhoring?
Quick! Somebody denounce somebody before they get denounced first!
(Anybody ready for oatmeal/raisin/chocolate chip/hazelnut cookies?)
Yes he is Steve.
But today, it appears he is on an up cycle with his meds.
He's the Whitman's Sampler of Bloggers. You never know whether you are getting a good caramel or a maple creme.
Who was it last week talking about Jean-Luc Ponty? I asked about Holdsworth, and didn't see a reply. I might have been drunk. Maybe.
.
I denounce GWPDA for her oatmeal/raisin/chocochip/hazelnut cookies!
Quick! Somebody denounce somebody before they get denounced first!
Attaturk sucks!
There, that should do it.
Silleigh, from the last thread:
Also, the AJC link (SpongeDob) invites me to search in the "paid archives" section. Perhaps my mouse should be on a different platform, er, mousepad.
I know the AJC requires registration but I didn't realize it required a paid subscription to access that article. Here's a coupla chunks:
'Family Feud'
Your questions answered: Dr. James Dobson didn't actually say SpongeBob is gay. Here's the real story.
Rodney Ho - Staff
Saturday, January 29, 2005
The American Family Association has nothing against SpongeBob SquarePants --- or his alleged sexual orientation.
"I love SpongeBob," said Ed Vitagliano, a researcher at the Tupelo, Miss., organization. "It's a very funny show. I watch it with my 15-year-old."
Vitagliano is the man who, indirectly, sparked the whole SpongeBob brouhaha with an article in the conservative Christian group's journal in mid-December.
About a month later, the whole mess became an official media frenzy when Dr. James Dobson, founder of a similarly conservative group called Focus on the Family, accused We Are Family Foundation of exploiting SpongeBob and other TV and cartoon characters in a "pro-homosexual video." From Fox News to "Good Morning America," from newspaper editorials to online blogs, the issue got twisted and flogged and joked about.
The story ended up being, "Is SpongeBob gay?"
But that isn't the story.
How did this controversy start?
The We Are Family Foundation announced plans in November to distribute a DVD version of the video to 61,000 elementary schools.
Vitagliano, an editor at American Family Foundation, saw an Associated Press story about the video Nov. 16. He spied the words "tolerance" and "diversity" in the story.
"Those are often code words to promote homosexuality when related to education," he said.
Vitagliano wrote a story for the AFA Journal that came out in mid-December. A few Christian news Web sites followed up, but no mainstream media outlets picked it up.
That probably would have ended it, but Focus on the Family's Dobson on Jan. 18 made a reference to the video at a black-tie dinner with congressional types and media --- including The New York Times.
Did Dobson say SpongeBob SquarePants is gay?
Not at all. He never even implied it. But SpongeBob was the only character in the video he mentioned at the dinner. In a Jan. 20 New York Times story, Dobson is quoted as asking, "Does anybody here know SpongeBob?" He accused We Are Family of hijacking SpongeBob to create a "pro-homosexual video." He cited a "tolerance pledge" on the We Are Family Web site that included tolerance of "sexual identity."
NTodd, Hah! And again, I say HAH! You are indulging in counter-revolutionary cooking by such a denunciation. Next - gingerbread with spiced whipping cream!
I denounce NTodd for bad cookie sense.
Attaturk:
I hate to say this, but I'm actually
delighted the Freepers think his
anti-torture stance is the result
of AIDS dementia.
I know that's mean-spirited of me,
but I can't bring myself to care.
No Hey Hey Hey - good, feeling guilty
more spongedob, via today's AJC:
David Kirkpatrick, the Times reporter, also noted that SpongeBob "has become a well-known camp figure among adult gay men." That may have triggered the ensuing idea that Dobson tied SpongeBob with gayness.
Later, Dobson emphasized that "It was not about SpongeBob." He and his group believe the foundation and its Web site promote acceptance of homosexuality.
What's in the video?
We Are Family Foundation canvassed the children's media world, persuading creators of more than 100 characters to appear in a video singing the 1979 Sister Sledge hit "We Are Family." The purpose? ". . . to promote tolerance and diversity," a Nov. 10 press release stated.
Arthur, Barney, Clifford and the Muppets joined in. SpongeBob made three brief appearances and doesn't even sing. There are no overt gay or even sexual references in the video. (Liberal Whoopi Goldberg does make a cameo.) You can link to the video yourself via Keith Olbermann's blog at www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/.
What is the We Are Family Foundation?
The foundation is a nonprofit group formed after 9/11 to promote "our common humanity and the vision of a global family through the use of a simple song and message 'We Are Family,' " according to www.wearefamilyfoundation.org.
What is the tolerance pledge?
The foundation took the pledge from the Southern Poverty Law Center based in Montgomery. The left-leaning civil rights law firm designs tolerance education programs, among other activities. In part, the pledge says, "I pledge to have respect for people whose abilities, beliefs, culture, race, sexual identity or other characteristics are different from my own."
Why else do these groups think We Are Family promotes a gay lifestyle?
In the original New York Times story Jan. 20, Paul Batura, assistant to Dobson, called the video "classic bait and switch" given what's on the Web site.
Vitagliano had found teaching materials on the We Are Family Foundation Web site that introduce students to "concepts of homophobia and compulsory heterosexuality." The site included a reading list including the famous "Heather Has Two Mommies." Since Dobson's comments, all that has been taken off the site, though the pledge remains.
Though this material was only a minor part of the site, AFA representative Stephen Bennett told ABC's Peter Jennings, "It's almost adding, like, a little strychnine into the water --- it's enough to kill you."
What did the We Are Family Foundation do?
Nile Rodgers --- the group's founder and producer of "We Are Family" as well as hits by David Bowie, Madonna and Duran Duran --- told media outlets that conservative groups mistakenly took information off a gay and lesbian support Web site, www.wef.org. (AFA's Vitagliano denied that; he said he went to the correct Web site. )
Rodgers also said the Web site isn't targeting kids, and the pledge is not being sent to children. "I don't u
Damn you, Attaturk, leave Attaturk out of this, or I'll have to sic Attaturk on your ass.
I posted this in the last thread, but what the hell.
Hillary Clinton will be reelected easily in NY in '06; a very lucrative contract to develop & build the new presidential helicopter went to Lockheed Martin in upstate NY. This is big news in these parts, and means lots of new jobs. HRC was very involved in the lobbying & is getting tons of positive local media.
This probably means that since she already has the NYC vote locked up, she'll make serious inroads in about 5 relatively populous upstate counties that have long been repub (but have been trending Dem anyway: Kerry carried them & local Dems did pretty well in '04).
I discuss it more here. What this means for '08 I'm not sure, but she's pretty much a lock now for reelection.
last bit about SpongeDob:
Rodgers also said the Web site isn't targeting kids, and the pledge is not being sent to children. "I don't understand their motivation," he told the Associated Press of his critics. "Nothing could be more devastating to the people who believe in me and our organization than to imply there's an insidious undercurrent to it.
"As I grew older, I've grown to respect people with a different point of view," he added. "The problem with this whole thing is that people are forcing me to be confrontational."
So is there a gay and lesbian We Are Family group?
Yes, it's a South Carolina group to help gay and lesbians in that state. But it has no affiliation with the We Are Family Foundation. A story on conservative news Web site WorldNetDaily.com Jan. 6 accidentally linked to the gay Web site. Vitagliano said he even informed the site of the error, which has since been corrected.
What's next?
We Are Family still plans to send the DVD to schools March 11 as scheduled. Teaching materials attached with the DVD will have no references to sexual orientation at all, the group said.
Bottom line: Is SpongeBob gay?
His creator Stephen Hillenburg says no: SpongeBob's asexual.
YEAH!!!!! Some people are "ticklish" about computer platforms!
it's an open thread, and since i don't have a blog, let me whore for those of you in chicago.
tonight, at the club "berlin" my friends chester and greg, pros both of them, will be spinning the very first "vs" night. one song each, back and forth, all night long. look for some real fireworks.
/blushing/ it was my idea, and i'll be there with all my gang. i'm the tall blonde on the platform.
Does this post make me look fat?
I hate to say this, but I'm actually
delighted the Freepers think his
anti-torture stance is the result
of AIDS dementia.
I did not know that, but I can certainly see many of the asinine little pricks thinking that.
I think Sully is a jackass, but he's certainly still several evolutionary steps about the gill-breathers at Free Republic, or the invertebrates of LGF.
Next - gingerbread with spiced whipping cream!
I denounce gingerbread as a Islamofascist plot to get us portly and unable to respond to terrorism.
I denounce NTodd for bad cookie sense.
I denounce Attaturk for eating rancid cookies!
I hate to say this, but I'm actually
delighted the Freepers think his
anti-torture stance is the result
of AIDS dementia.
I did not know that, but I can certainly see many of the asinine little pricks thinking that.
I think Sully is a jackass, but he's certainly still several evolutionary steps above the gill-breathers at Free Republic, or the invertebrates of LGF.
I am sure many saw the "pee" story from the last thread -- here is breaking news:
Feces scandal undermines military
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/
SIT...00501270007.asp
...anger from the public for the "distressful" news that an Army captain responsible for training fresh draftees allegedly ordered his soldiers to eat human feces
I denounce all of this denunciation!
I denounce chicago dyke's -group- singing. Fests, it's all about fests and what is a fest without a festschrift?
speaking of fat:
http://www.personneltoday.com/Articles/2005/01/27/
27679...
The owner of a US company who forced his employees to quit smoking or leave their jobs has now said he also wants to tell fat workers to lose weight or else.
His ban on tobacco use, at home or in the workplace, led four employees to quit their jobs last week at Michigan-based Weyco, which handles insurance claims, reports Reuters.
Overweight workers are next in the firing line for Weyers. "We have to work on eating habits and getting people to exercise. But if you are obese, you are protected," he said.
He has brought in an eating disorder therapist to speak to workers, provided eating coaches, created a point system for employees to earn health-related $100 (£53) bonuses and plans to offer $45 (£24) vouchers for health club memberships.
look out fatties!
Fuck James Dobson and the wife he rode in on.
And in case it wasn't clear, my prob with the AJC artice pasted above is that they patiently take the time to debunk smears about a homophobic jerkoff.
OK, setting the record straight is a Good Thing, but I didn't see the AJC spend this much time sorting out Rathergate, for fuck's sake.
It's still an illuminating article. It speaks volumes about how FUBAR we are that there are powerful, influential people who go into a rage when they see the word "tolerance." And they aren't shy about letting the world know that.
oatmeal/raisin/chocolate chip/hazelnut cookies?
People that eat oatmeal/raisin/chocolate chip/hazelnut cookies are jerks. I have been eating sugar cookies for 15 years and....
I denounce all of this denunciation!
Thersites
Who was deposed and made you Censor?
I denounce you for your arbitrary denouncements or denouncements!
Harrump! 
My name is not Jeff Gannon. And this is my blog.
www.jeffgannon.blogspot.com
Sandy the squirrel, Fag hag?
I think Sully is a jackass, but he's certainly still several evolutionary steps about the gill-breathers at Free Republic, or the invertebrates of LGF.
Hmm. Dunno about that. The emmissions of Virtually Normal Fifth Columnist have more cultural currency, I'd guess, than those of the LGFuckers.
I denounce those people who are so closely allied with the corporatist structure as to not realise that all they have to do to make oatmeal/raisin/chocolate chip/hazelnut cookies work is to re-boot!
My name is not Jeff Gannon. And this is my blog.
www.jeffgannon.blogspot.com
damn, mr. bill. that's nasty. when i was in the Corps boot camp the DIs weren't even allowed to swear at us.
I denounce you for your arbitrary denouncements or denouncements!
I denounce my proofreading skills!
My name is not Jeff Gannon. And this is my blog.
www.jeffgannon.blogspot.com
I denounced Not Jeff Gannon for double posting!
Ooops! My bad....
It's denouements, not denouncements.....
I denounce Don Knotts!
(Technically, that is what is known as a dedonknottsiation.)
I denounce all of this denunciation!
You Bastard™!
I'd join in, but I'm afraid I might misdenounce something.
Good day eh?
Anyone see this?
Male Sexual Orientation Genes Identified
Seems as if the Human Genome Project is about to get a little more publicity than they already have.TO come out and tell the world what they should already knw,Homosexuality is not elective,the religious right is about to come unglued over this tidbit.
Hope the HGP is ready to defend itself.
and on a serious note:
By DAVID CRARY, AP National Writer
NEW YORK - The abortion bill most likely to become federal law this year would affect a relatively small number of pregnant teens, yet its impact on them could be dramatic — sharply reducing the options for girls in many states who dread telling their parents of their plight.
Supporters and opponents each offer vivid worst-case scenarios in debating the bill, which was included this week in the Senate Republicans' priority list. It would outlaw transporting a minor across state lines to obtain an abortion in order to evade parental consent or notification laws in the girl's home state.
The bill's advocates evoke the image of a girl being impregnated by an abusive older man who then drives them to an out-of-state abortion clinic so the girl's parents and the authorities won't find out about a relationship that might have been illegal because of age differences.
Opponents of the bill say it would criminalize the well-meaning acts of an aunt, older sister or other confidante who assist a girl terrified of being beaten or evicted from home if her parents learned of the pregnancy......
Titled the Child Custody Protection Act, and carrying a sentence of up to one year in prison, the bill has bounced around Congress for years, winning House approval three times but never reaching a vote on the Senate floor. Only now — after making the Senate GOP's Top 10 priority list — do supporters and foes believe its passage is probable........
Why hasn't that Cheap Bastard Atrios Smith™ denounced the denunciations?
i'm the tall blonde on the platform.
You wouldn't happen to be a Venezuelan with an evil-looking cat, would you?
The rumor is that Sully is a candidate to replace Safire on the NYT Op-Ed page. (When I went to the NYT online yesterday to be confronted with his bearded mug in a promo for some sort of online discussion of his review of the torture books I thought it had already happened). If it turns out to be true he'll have a much bigger forum for his bullshit. The thought of him and Babbling Brooks on the same page, twice-weekly, makes me sick.
Who was deposed and made you Censor?
I denounce you for your arbitrary denouncements or denouncements!
Harrump!
I denounce your denunciation of my denunciation of your denunciations!
Attaturk sucks!
===================
doubt it. Your blog is too funny for you to suck. Unless you're using the term literally, which would not be a bad thing.
Egad - just no more arguments about computers, please. Football would almost be better.
And they aren't shy about letting the world know that.
bunker buster
And now they're the victim.
anger from the public for the "distressful" news that an Army captain responsible for training fresh draftees allegedly ordered his soldiers to eat human feces
Do you think these captains are preparing the S. Korean troups for the fair they will get from Halliburton when we give them BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars to "supply the troups"?
Of course, like the rest of chimpy's bizarro world -- we will be told that the purpose of these no-bid contracts is to save money and do things more efficiently than the army can.
I discuss it more here. What this means for '08 I'm not sure, but she's pretty much a lock now for reelection.
Thersites
I heard last night that the consortium is out-sourcing like 30% of production, to Italy and Britain? Arent they, ummmmmmmmm, 'coalition members?' Think there's any connexion?
It sounds like you guys need a kitty fix. I have some cute kitten pictures on my homepage
warm fuzzy kittens... mmmmm...
I've been here at work all day, just trying to get some work done, but these darned Internets keep sucking me in.
Darned these eyes and these fingers... ok, now back to work.
Poor mistreated long-suffering James Dobson.
Bunker, thank you, that was kind.
I rather liked this column in the St. Pete Times yesterday -- about SpongeDob, framing, and code-words.
The Human Genome Project has a long history of un-American activities and mental instability.
hey smalfish! good to see you around again...how's the homelife?
hee hee, so when will the HGP discover the wingnut gene? it's probably somewhere on the loci which relates to small penis size...
oldwhitelady: Awwww!!!
Dobson certainly spends a lot of time and energy "researching" this blight upon the family, doesn't he?
On a "feces" note closer to home:
For the life of me I cannot stop my dog from eating his own feces. ... At times he will even pass up his food in favor of his feces! Any suggestions, doc?
http://www.montereyherald.com/ml...ng/
10608819.htm
Quick! Somebody denounce somebody before they get denounced first!
I rebuke you. I rebuke you all in the name of Our Mighty Leader. May you be sodomized by legions of cartoon characters in the darkest corners of Hell.
i'm the tall blonde on the platform.
You wouldn't happen to be a Venezuelan with an evil-looking cat, would you?
actually, my last name if Finnish. and my cat is beautiful, even if she can give some pretty evil looks when the food dish runs empty...
Are the public denouncements over? I'd like to trade in the cold pricklies for some warm fuzzies (ala oldwhitelady's kittenpimping).
WGG - my little weather alert programme has just offered this - "Scattered showers and isolated thunderstorms will begin to redevelop over the greater Phx area by 1pm and continue thru at least 3pm. Some of the stronger storms will produce small hail..."
Small hail in Phoenix, snow in Alburquerque!
I denounce small hail!
WaPo: Rocket attack kills 2 Americans at US Embassy in Baghdad.
Even the Green Zone is increasingly unsafe. Hope we've got enough helicopters to get everyone out at the end...
Just checking, CD. Atrios was very mysterious about his "tall blonde Venezuelan friend" when he did the Substitute Cat Blogging.
May you be sodomized by legions of cartoon characters in the darkest corners of Hell.
well, at least hell is warm. can i have jessica rabbit as my punisher? mmmmmm...cartoon sodomy.
Sully as the New Safire wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to the gray lady.
Just sayin'.
actually, my last name if Finnish.
I got stuck in an elevator once in Helsinki. Alas, there were no tall blonde Finns in sight.
(Anybody ready for oatmeal/raisin/chocolate chip/hazelnut cookies?)
~Looks up longlingly from brief and raises hand~
Me! Me! I am! Me! Me!
I got stuck in an elevator once in Helsinki. Alas, there were no tall blonde Finns in sight.
So what did you pry the doors open with?
chicago dyke -- is this the type of "local business" I should support?
A farmer's three-story manure pile and a nearby town are both STEAMING
David Dickinson, who makes his living in the cattle business in Nebraska, has an environmental problem on his hands that is vexing state officials: a 2,000-ton pile of burning cow manure.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/...10767012.htm?
1c
Bunker Buster:
You're an optimist.
out of the blue here...
some friends and I were discussing ways to think "out of the box" and affect some change (mostly disheartened, cynical and cold vermonters.) we started discussing the notion of a nation-wide general strike. half the work-force most likely reflects half the voting populous in terms of sentiment toward our vaunted leader and his "policies". just a bit of pleasant day-dreaming perhaps but it is fun to consider the effects on our economy and all if half the folks refused to show up for work on say... W's birthday (july 6th)
thoughts?
So what did you pry the doors open with?
My immensely large and strong...tall blonde Swede.
May you be sodomized by legions of cartoon characters in the darkest corners of Hell.
Yes, please, may we be?
"~Looks up longlingly from brief and raises hand~
Me! Me! I am! Me! Me!"
Check with the orange people - they know how the game is played.
Orange people! They all got mailed yesterday!
Must take cookies from oven.
I denounce those people who are so closely allied with the corporatist structure as to not realise that all they have to do to make oatmeal/raisin/chocolate chip/hazelnut cookies work is to re-boot!
Shit. Does this mean I have to set Spybot and AdAware to catch oatmeal raisin chocolate chip hazelnut cookies now???
Chicago Dyke: Would you take it personally if I said your posts in this thread are making me want to scream? 
Even the Green Zone is increasingly unsafe. Hope we've got enough helicopters to get everyone out at the end...
Well we wont if we pay 1.6 BILLION DOLLARS per each aircraft unit.
we started discussing the notion of a nation-wide general strike.
How about a national day of prayer and fasting?
Okay with all these denouncements going on we have to pick our teams...
I get to be Trostky, I'll bring the ice-pick.
Who wants to be Sergei Kirov?
Who wants to be Lev Kamenev? Gregory Zinoviev? Ivan Smirnov?
Glenn Reynolds can be Nikolai Yezhov, the malignant dwarf.
The game goes in 5-year plan increments.
BB...No, it wouldn't be the worst. But it's just one more example of how the NYT capitulates to the right, who have been demanding that Safire be replaced with another ring-winger. Brooks has eroded the quality of the op-ed page with his inane ranting. Sully would continue the trend with his schizoid mouthings.
Ever notice how the liberal media just recites DNC talking points?
hey smalfish! good to see you around again...how's the homelife?
It goes well enough to survive,thanks.
Tall blonde and liberal,eh?SOunds like a winner to me!
On a side note,my grandparents were both from Finland,we share some history!
some friends and I were discussing ways to think "out of the box" and affect some change (mostly disheartened, cynical and cold vermonters.)
BTW, why wasn't I invited to the party? I live in Fletcher...
bill:
i heard about that yesterday, funny! (sort of)
i guess i have it good- i live and work in a large city where there are many options for shopping. i buy my food from a collective of nice mexican-americans who sell organic produce and share the profits within a small circle of families, i buy my books for a collective supported by a large university, and i buy my clothes from a used clothing recycling group of young women who care about the environment. i have choices, not everyone does.
but the only way that will change is if we pressure each other and selves to do what you recommend downthread, and investigate businesses to make sure they are fair. i take the time to do so, and it looks like you do too. pass it on, my brother.
I heard last night that the consortium is out-sourcing like 30% of production, to Italy and Britain? Arent they, ummmmmmmmm, 'coalition members?' Think there's any connexion?
Wouldn't be surprised.
To be honest, the contract is rather on the absurd side; the Bushite committment to cutting spending apparently doesn't apply to superkool space age helicopters. But this boondoggle does benefit the local economy, no question...
I think Sully is a jackass, but he's certainly still several evolutionary steps about the gill-breathers at Free Republic, or the invertebrates of LGF.
=====================
Yeah, the guy can write, which is too bad for our side.
wingnuttery for Ba'al
The fact that Sully has denounced Bushboy's torture like a spurned lover means, not to mention his HIV+ status and gayness will mean he will never replace a decretin like Safire.
He may be an ass, but he's not a big enough one.
nation-wide general strike
I support this idea in principle, but I don't think it will work in the U.S. in practice. Countries in which general strikes are effective are those in which alternative, community-based media outlets are available to populations of poor and working-class people. Like radio. Internet-based alternatives in the U.S. don't provide the reach into communities that need to be involved.
the work-force most likely reflects half the voting populous in terms of sentiment toward our vaunted leader and his "policies".
My guess is that half the workforce is not part of chimpy's base -- did you see the chimperor's proclaimations in F911 as to whom his real base is?
Our challenge is to get that segment of his supporters whom are actually getting the biggest hose job from his policies to realize that when you pull large objects out of your anus, it actually starts to feel better.
Chicago Dyke: Would you take it personally if I said your posts in this thread are making me want to scream?
Silleigh | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 3:30 pm | #
only if you don't tell me why.
mr. bill: you are indeed *the shit* today.
What troubles me most about the dog post is that a product actually exists that "makes feces taste foul." ???
I mean, ???????
Did I post that? Oops, I hate computers.
GWPDA:
It's still sunny but chilly here. No wind. Forecast sez "rain/snow" tomorrow, depending. Low tonite 29-31. Hi tomorrow low 40s...
you never know...it does look like it's coming right down I-40...
The fact that Sully has denounced Bushboy's torture like a spurned lover means, not to mention his HIV+ status and gayness will mean he will never replace a decretin like Safire.
He may be an ass, but he's not a big enough one.
What about Jonah Goldberg? Could they get him?
Ooo, or Adam Yoshida!
Oh, be still, my heart...
I get to be Trostky, I'll bring the ice-pick.
Who wants to be Sergei Kirov?
Who wants to be Lev Kamenev? Gregory Zinoviev? Ivan Smirnov?
As long as I don;t have to be Jakov Smirnoff...
Yeah, the guy can write
Well, he can over-write purple prose, anyway. Will his first column denounce! queers and fifth-columnists?
i take the time to do so, and it looks like you do too. pass it on, my brother.
Currently, I don't have a lot of choices -- and neither do the people in Kansas where empty storefronts with "GOING OUT OF BUSINESS" signs are hung next to "BUSH CHENEY - 2004" signs. Unfortunately, IMHO, here is where we have to see the changes.
On a side note,my grandparents were both from Finland,we share some history!
smalfish | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 3:33 pm | #
my finnish-american grandfather went back to the motherland just before he died. in fact, he died in helsinki. all his kids chipped in to send him there, it was a very special family moment. my cousins who have been there went back to the villiage where our first ancestors came from, and the whole town came out to welcome them. they were so happy to see their american relations, and passed on a general invite to all of us to stay for free anytime.
which, if things keep going here the way they are, i may take them up on.
I've had a couple of e-mails run-ins
with Sully the Pooh.
My favorite was after he wrote
an unbelievably inane piece about
some friend of his who got
confirmed as an Anglican cleric or
something of the sort.
I e-mailed him to the effect I
thought the piece was the worst
sort of Victorian sentimentality.
He e-mailed me back saying "Well,
if you understood the concept of
faith, you couldn't mock me like that."
I replied "I'm not mocking your
faith, you nit. I'm mocking your
prose style."
If there is now evidence that homosexuality is Gene driven,does this mean that Genes are evil?
I rather liked this column in the St. Pete Times yesterday -- about SpongeDob, framing, and code-words.
Silleigh
Thanks for that link. Most also don't understand what a direct threat gays are to the religious right and their power. After decades of malaigning and demonizing us and I've seen the tortured results of their efforts, if we were to gain equal rights, it would destroy them. I know it. Dobson knows it, too.
only if you don't tell me why.
Well, y'know, the health-nazi company, and the law that criminalizes helping someone get around parental n/c laws to get an abortion...
I saw an interview with the head of that insurance company. He truly laments that he can't go ahead and sack his overweight workers because they're protected under ADA.
monica-nyc
that seems to be one of the predominant arguements we batted about last night in terms of feasability. counter-arguements were to cite the potent emergance of Dean/internetism, Boxer's appeal etc.
when all was said and done it seemed that there were many reasons why it couldn't happen but some put forth the notion that of course it would be difficult to organize and unprecedented but that is always the case with such "impossible causes."
mr. bill - the basic premise seemed to be "hit 'em where it hurts."
My guess is that half the workforce is not part of chimpy's base
OOPS -- MISKEY!!!! I meant that my guess is that chimpy's base is much less than half the workforce -- at least if we look at those that can actually think for themselves.
I know that this question is probably better suited for another thread, but here is where the action is (in the spirit of Willie Sutton)--
Re: Jeff Gannon
How does one get press credentials? Press credentials for the White House or anywhere else?
Anyone know? Attaturk? You got any? If so, can you tell a little about the process and the pain in the ass/invasion of privacy/relative ease of it?
Thanks in advance for any information.
Yeah, the guy can write, which is too bad for our side.
QuiltLady in NY
You can be eloquent and still be wrong.
Bunker Buster:
You're an optimist.
Steve Simels | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 3:29 pm | #
Not sure I'm following.
Sully is a schmuck who actually stated that Bush was "a guy I'd like to hang out with." He's a kneejerk Iraq war supporter, yadda yadda.
But I guess I'm comfortable with his stupidity. My tolerance comes from my many years of reading TNR (and occasionally wadding it up and firing it against the wall).
Of course the NYT should stop being a corporate media outlet and fire anyone who lies (like, say, David Brooks). But it ain't gonna happen.
As long as I don;t have to be Jakov Smirnoff...
In Russian, the Jakov Smirnoff chooses you.
And the Arizona parent found the images on the wall display as disturbing as its verbal message. "As I looked, I noticed there were only pictures of women together on this poster," she says, "and in one of the pictures, it's highly suggested that these women were going to kiss or had just kissed."
Because she has so much personal experience in "the look" that lesbians give each other. But wait - which is it? About to kiss or just kissed? Evidnely, AZ Mom doesn't know as much as she thinks.
mr. bill: My guess is that half the workforce is not part of chimpy's base -- did you see the chimperor's proclaimations in F911 as to whom his real base is?
Yeah, and it's a sore point for me right now. A longtime friend of mine tried to convince me that by using that clip, Moore was being fundamentally dishonest -- because Moore doesn't say that it was at the Al Smith dinner, in 2000.
When I asked him if it were not obvious that Bush was trying to make a self-effacing joke in front of a crowd of wealthy people, presumably to get them to part with some of their money, he got all flustered, deleted the conversation from his blog, and has now shut down his blog to all but invited "friends" (god, LiveJournal).
This is a guy who rubs everyone's face in the fact that he's perhaps the most politically astute person one will ever meet in person, and has worked on every losing Democratic presidential campaign since Dukakis. Hell, with Dems like him running things...
.
To whom it may concern...
I was having trouble getting several blogs to load, until I changed my lmhosts file thusly;
------------------
127.0.0.1 localhost
69.20.5.88 www.talkingpointsmemo.com
66.250.68.3 pandagon.net
66.151.149.10 ezraklein.typepad.com
66.102.15.101 atrios.blogspot.com
66.102.15.101 americablog.blogspot.com
66.102.15.101 backsliderswine.blogspot.com
66.102.15.101 blogspot.com
67.18.73.162 haloscan.com
66.102.15.100 blogger.com
---------------
The lmhosts file is in your c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc folder, if you wanna speriment with it. http://www.whois.sc can give you the IP of a site if you only know the name.
Are boobies bad?
You guys should visit TalkLeft more often. It's a good site and there are far too many trolls in attendance.
What troubles me most about the dog post is that a product actually exists that "makes feces taste foul." ???
I agree 100% but something like this might be useful in so-called "red states" and withing chimpy's "values voters." We do need some way to get people to realize that the manure that we are being fed from this administration is too awful to swallow!
Just wanted to say thanks again, America, for everything...
Tomorrow, I finally get my country back.
I was a hero in error. No hard feelings, ok?
Thank you.
Thank you.
-
Yeesh, for tags and typing today. lol
Hey Not Jeff Gannon .. There ARE NO DNC talking points. That's Dems' problem, moron. They don't have a well-oiled machine that disseminates the talking points at a Wednesday meeting in Grover Norquist's office the way the re-thugs do.
In Russian, the Jakov Smirnoff chooses you.
Close enough for Soviet work. Well done!
How does one get press credentials? Press credentials for the White House or anywhere else?
Anyone know? Attaturk? You got any? If so, can you tell a little about the process and the pain in the ass/invasion of privacy/relative ease of it?
I'm just internet blogboy with a not so big secret of being a law-talking guy in flyover land.
So I don't know.
It's totally different than their endless condemnations of abortion. People don't have a lot of sympathy for that. But when they're forced to continue maligning other people who get married, who want to be left alone and live their lives, that's another situation entirely. People will start looking at them to shut the fuck up.
So, I see that Halliburton has suddenly decided to bug out of their Iran contracts.
Think Cheney gave them the 'heads up' before the bombing begins?
The rumor is that Sully is a candidate to replace Safire on the NYT Op-Ed page.
What's really funny is the wingers are now calling Sully "left-wing" so they will just say that the Times has replaced a conservative with a liberal. And I agree with steve simels, I cannot begin to feel sorry for the fact that the LGFers and freepers are claiming that Sully is suffering from AIDS-related dementia. He chose to ally himself with the intolerant; he cannot now claim to be shocked, shocked! that they are turning on him.
that seems to be one of the predominant arguements we batted about last night in terms of feasability. counter-arguements were to cite the potent emergance of Dean/internetism, Boxer's appeal etc.
when all was said and done it seemed that there were many reasons why it couldn't happen but some put forth the notion that of course it would be difficult to organize and unprecedented but that is always the case with such "impossible causes."
Well, the Dean and Boxer rebellions mostly reach people who are already politically aware or who are financially able to access news and organizing tools electronically.
What would be required to reach poor and working class people is outreach of the type that went on in the 1960s. People are gonna have to get on the bus. Most of the organizing work would have to be done in person.
Currently, I don't have a lot of choices -- and neither do the people in Kansas where empty storefronts with "GOING OUT OF BUSINESS" signs are hung next to "BUSH CHENEY - 2004" signs. Unfortunately, IMHO, here is where we have to see the changes.
it's hard work, what we'll have to do in the coming economic collapse. i remember in my mom's small town all the BC banners that went up, big and shiny- you just knew that the farmers etc., weren't the ones paying for them. but they are the ones that bush is screwing hardest, and yet they still support him.
personally, i'm looking to the 30s for lessons about how to deal with what's coming. small businesses, collectives, "alternative" models of exchange. i've come to the conclusion that our democratic "leadership" is too fat and happy with their own portfolios to care about what happens to the rest of us. so we have to take the lead.
Most also don't understand what a direct threat gays are to the religious right and their power.
This should be true. And since the demographic is at least slowly changing -- younger people are far less likely to be knee-jerk homophobes than older people -- it should be inevitable that the Dobson-types will eventually be marginalized, like the people who couldn't "tolerate" racial equal rights. Ideally, it will happen a lot more quickly, but at least the bulk of the bigots will eventually die off.
Jakov Smirnoff?
as opposed to, say...
Copulative Stoli?
When I asked him if it were not obvious that Bush was trying to make a self-effacing joke in front of a crowd of wealthy people
Sorry, have to respectfully disagree -- might be the case, but obviously not so if you have paid attention to chimpy's politics. Do you remember the line about "rich people don't pay taxes anyhow?"
Gee, chimpy, guess we did not need the tax cuts then. I am not an apologies for Mr. Moore -- he speaks eloquently for himself.
We will have spent $300 billion (conservatively) by the end of the year in Iraq. Do the math -- that is 3.2 milion per each soldier that is risking their lives. Clearly that "support" did not translate to the "working people" in the army. Halliburton and others are making out like bandits -- THE SUPER RICH IS HIS BASE, regardless how you want to construe the context of that clip.
monica,
I agree - its where i came down on the arguement but many pointed out that these other tools could be a great augmentation. until "labor" and the "left" (which if defined by the demographics of those who participated in the demonstrations prior to the occupation is a mighty diverse lot) unite I fear we will be spinning our wheels for some time - or at least until the oil runs out.
Ideally, it will happen a lot more quickly, but at least the bulk of the bigots will eventually die off.
Silleigh
Right. It's telling that they're not concerned we're trying to "recruit" gays from schools or turn them queer. What they're only concerned with is greater tolerance in the future which will lead to equal rights and that strikes directly at the heart of their Church and their power. It is all about power with them fuck the damage they're doing to other human beings or what would Jesus do.
Couldn't Sully's recent pieces have been an attempt to seem more moderate until he gets the job?
Ideally, it will happen a lot more quickly, but at least the bulk of the bigots will eventually die off.
This is not going to be popular, but I will post it anyhow. I would like to see this happen to -- but the attitude of bigotry would "die off" a lot quicker if we did not hold the democratic party "hostage" to gay rights issues.
We can build coalitions and support for ALL HUMAN RIGHTS when we can elect more reasonable people. Right now, that ain't gonna happen if we take unpopular stands on the "wedge" issues.
I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS RIGHT, but we play right into Rove and Company's hands. We can support gay rights in other ways, at least until we throw the neocons out!
Just my humble opinion - I am merely concerned that we will all be very sorry if we do not get a grip on this thing.
I agree 100% but something like this might be useful in so-called "red states" and withing chimpy's "values voters." We do need some way to get people to realize that the manure that we are being fed from this administration is too awful to swallow!
We need an R&D team at work on this idea. NOW.
To round out the discussion: Police in Germany are hunting pranksters who have been sticking miniature US flags into piles of dog poo in public parks.
Jakov Smirnoff?
as opposed to, say...
Copulative Stoli?
Absolut Wank(er)(ing)(age).
Wanna see somethin' scary?
Go to Othersingles.com. It's a dating service for conservatives.
Funny search- look for "very conservative" men who are also "very fashionable."
They say that Sully's suffering from AIDs-related dementia? Did they really say that? Geez, even I wouldn't say that and I *loathe* Sullivan. Wolcott hit the nail on the head when he said that Sully is deep in an identity panic. It can't help when the wingers are screeching, "He's one of us!" "No, wait, he's one of them!" "Strike that, he's one of us!" Poor Silly Sully. But I still don't want him on the NYT Op-Ed page.
It's totally different than their endless condemnations of abortion.
incog, i want to add some complexity to your analysis. i tend to think of anti-choicers and homophobes as two sides of the same coin. they are penis-worshippers who are at the same tiime afraid to let women, gays, and minorities enjoy the full power and privileges of the White Penis.
they know that dykes can satisfy women better than any man, they know that people of color are slowly replacing them as a majority, they know that educated women without children can live happily on their own- they know all this and more, and fear it. as yoda says, fear->anger->hatred. their hatred consumes them by day as their secret desire to be free of the burden of the White Penis fills their dreams at night. everything in their culture comes back to the almighty-ness of the white penis myth, and they are desparate that the truth is becoming known by more and more with each new episode of spongebob.
Ba'al, would dobson's burning penis be a nice aroma?
But this is not an example of serious torture. The English language is demeaned and degraded by using such a word inappropriately, in the same way the language is degraded when creeps like Ted Rall call the US Army “indistinguishable from the SS.”
This is LGF's take on "torture" in Abu Graib. The issue isn't whether we tortured anyone, it's that we're degrading the English language. Thank god for true McPatriots who can set us straight.
I know I go on about gay issues it gets shrill. Most of you have been taught all your lives to be extremely dismissive of anything to do with gays. But if you look at everything that's happening now it all leads back to this one thing. It's like 'follow the money.' It's why the fundamentalists are so powerful. It's why the military supports Bush while they're being destroyed. It's what Bush was able to beat to get into the White House.
Mr. Bill:
I respectfully disagree. The idea
that people voted for Bush because
of gay marriage or whatever
is, from what I've seen, unsupported
by poll numbers.
Poor Silly Sully.
It must royally suck to be a gay conservative/Republican. Do I have the least bit of sympathy? Fuck no.
until "labor" and the "left" (which if defined by the demographics of those who participated in the demonstrations prior to the occupation is a mighty diverse lot) unite I fear we will be spinning our wheels for some time - or at least until the oil runs out.
But we don't have to be spinning our wheels, right? I mean, I've decided to do media-reform outreach instead of traditional voter and GOTV outreach from now on. After some 20 years of voting-related work, I've decided to ditch all that. Fuck it. I need to take a new direction and a new kind of action.
I'v met some of them, steve. "I voted for values", ad nauseum. Obviously, it's not the entire 51% but there are some who are too lazy/misinformed/easily swayed that they'll vote simply because Bush's platform was less "icky".
chicago dyke, you're right, of course. You went deeper into it. I was providing a crude outline.
We can build coalitions and support for ALL HUMAN RIGHTS when we can elect more reasonable people. Right now, that ain't gonna happen if we take unpopular stands on the "wedge" issues.
I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS RIGHT, but we play right into Rove and Company's hands. We can support gay rights in other ways, at least until we throw the neocons out!
gotta disagree bill. 1- bush stole the election, and didn't really get %51 voters/%25 population support. 2- human rights is a great way to reframe the debate, and by not doing so we play into rove's hands 3- they won't stop if we give an inch, you know this and any issue over the last four years proves it. don't fight them now, and soon someone you love will be next. 4-i love my friends too much not to fight for our rights, and nothing will make me any different.
the anti-gay forces are a shrinking minority, to believe otherwise is to buy into rove's BS.
Can I be Trofim Lysenko?
monica
right-on. exactly the starting point of our pow-wow last night. fuck GOTV was what sparked the whole melee.
Ripley:
I know what you mean, but isn't it
true that the percentage of people
who claim to have voted based on
"values" has been declining steadily
since '98? If I'm not mistaken, that
percentage was down by half in '04.
but the attitude of bigotry would "die off" a lot quicker if we did not hold the democratic party "hostage" to gay rights issues.
Another good reason to acknowledge that GOTV and voting are fucking worthless endeavors.
Democrats have got to find some way to confront this head-on or the repukes will continue using this issue to their advantage. Come out strong and forceful for equal rights for gays AND GODDAMN MEAN IT or they will continue to subvert and undermine the left with "icky" insinuations.
mr. bill: Sorry, have to respectfully disagree -- might be the case, but obviously not so if you have paid attention to chimpy's politics. Do you remember the line about "rich people don't pay taxes anyhow?"
Well, don't go away mad...
I don't think the fact that it's true that the rich elitist fascists are Bush's base makes it impossible for the average viewer of that clip in Fahrenheit 9/11 to understand the context -- that of a politician making a lame attempt at a joke, at a white-tie affair. That's what happened, and you'd have to be dense not to understand that clip in that context. To me, knowing the context, what he said wouldn't cause my outrage meter to twitch even if he were doing it to raise money for his campaign. All politicians make lame jokes like this... even more likely at a white-tie affair for charity.
Now, you wanna talk about lame-ass attempts at humor? "Nope -- no WMDs under there!" Grrrr!
.
1watt-Thanks for the linko lysenko. It's a very interesting analogy.
the global takeover of media begins...
he tiny state of Qatar is a crucial American ally in the Persian Gulf, where it provides a military base and warm support for American policies. Yet relations with Qatar are also strained over an awkward issue: Qatar's sponsorship of Al Jazeera, the provocative television station that is a big source of news in the Arab world.
Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and other Bush administration officials have complained heatedly to Qatari leaders that Al Jazeera's broadcasts have been inflammatory, misleading and occasionally false, especially on Iraq.
The pressure has been so intense, a senior Qatari official said, that the government is accelerating plans to put Al Jazeera on the market, though Bush administration officials counter that a privately owned station in the region may be no better from their point of view.
...
Administration officials have been nervous to talk about the station, being sensitive to charges that they are trying to suppress free expression. Officials at the State and Defense Departments and at the embassy in Qatar were reluctant to comment. However, some administration officials acknowledged that the well-publicized American pressure on the station - highlighted when Qatar was not invited to a summit meeting on the future of democracy in the Middle East last summer in Georgia - has drawn charges of hypocrisy, especially in light of President Bush's repeated calls for greater freedoms and democracy in the region.
from DU.
If I'm not mistaken, that
percentage was down by half in '04.
Steve Simels
That was all manufactured and put out by them and the media bought it.
Think Cheney gave them the 'heads up' before the bombing begins?
They warned some people not to fly on 9/11 too. I believe the record shows that some US businesses pulled out of Iraq before that invations.
This is not good news -- anyone else feel a draft. The professional military generals don't want one, but if chimpy gets his way, they will have no choice.
THIS IS ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!!! Billions and billions to the people that actually control chimpy. Many of these same interests made tons of money on WWII too.
Chicago Dyke "i'm the tall blonde on the platform."
Ah...you are not my lesbian co-worker. She'd be evanston dyke, anyway.
At my advanced dotage, going to a club like "Berlin" would make me feel like Don Knotts in "Three's Company." Probably make me act like him as well....
MR. BILL:
This has been discussed and discussed. Personally, if we cave in on such a fundamental issue as equal rights, we will stop being the Democratic Party, and accelerate the slide to repug lite.
The other problem is where will we stop. Will we next put choice on the line. School choice? Religion in the schools? No, we have to have a core set of beliefs, and equal protection is core.
Gregory Zinoviev?
Me! Me!
Co-optation is an almost miraculous thing, and once the process is fully underway, to speak leftishly, revolution is about the only thing that can counter-balance it. On a List the other day that specialises in discussing the various difficulties facing employees of one of the smaller US Govt agencies, someone posted the Wapo article detailing how the Shrubbery intend, starting with DHomelandSec, to gut the civil service. This includes of course making sure that civil servants must have their primary loyalty to their managers and to political appointees. For anyone actually aware, this represents something socially awful - civil servants, good, bad or indifferent, are meant to be invulnerable to political coercion so as to provide benefits to the citizenry whom they serve, not transient political masters.
And yet, over and over again, the various List members chimed in, in support of the great plan. They thought it best that only 'good' employees be employed - best for the agency, best for the careerists.
Co-optation is pretty far advanced.
Cookies!
Now, you wanna talk about lame-ass attempts at humor? "Nope -- no WMDs under there!" Grrrr!
100% agreement there! I do think that you make too much out of the context of that clip -- but reasonable people can disagree. The "twitch" that clip causes, IMHO, is not so much the moment, but the overall context of what chimpy has done and for whom the major beneficiaries are.
but isn't it
true that the percentage of people
who claim to have voted based on
"values" has been declining steadily
since '98? If I'm not mistaken, that
percentage was down by half in '04.
you're correct steve. not only that, but in a metastudy we do here every decade, our researchers found that religious belief itself is in serious decline, with major drops in the population for whom religion is 'very important' every decade since the 60s.
when the last yuppie is dead, the minority status of 'moralvalues' people will be very clear.
They say that Sully's suffering from AIDs-related dementia? Did they really say that?
A commenter on LGF wrote this:
"Is it still beyond the pale to suggest that Sully is in the throes of AIDS-related dementia? I mean, the evidence does keep piling up. Acknowledging that a person's apparent behavior may be the result of disease, when the person is known to have that disease, and when the disease (or its treatment) is known to produce a specific response, is not necessarily a smear."
Oh yes - and there's just been made a Tornado warning, good for Maricopa County (including Wittmann, where all the various junction boxes for the Southwest's telecoms are.) Whoopee! Back at ya, WGG!
May you be sodomized by legions of cartoon characters in the darkest corners of Hell.
well, at least hell is warm. can i have jessica rabbit as my punisher? mmmmmm...cartoon sodomy.
chicago dyke | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 3:28 pm | #
Sign me up for Betty Boop, then. Jessica Rabbit seems too high maintenance.
Also, sign me up in the group of folks who think it's interest, to say the least, how bent out of shape Dobson and his crowd get whenever someone mentions "diversity". I blogged about this - you can click the link if so inclined - and I've basically come to the decision that what they're really worried about is their kids won't hate and fear as much as they do, quite possibly forcing them to confront parts of themselves they've kept hidden for quite a while.
Kos nails it:
...In the feverish minds of the war apologists, it doesn't matter that no WMDs were found, that torture chambers are still open for business, that this war is now rivaling Saddam's brutality for sheer number of Iraqis killed, that the Army, Marines, and National Guard are all having trouble recruiting, that our equipment is degrading to the point where we're creating a hollow military, that the war is costing us $200 billion and counting, that Israel is not safer as a result of this war, that nearly 1,600 allied troops and counting have died on this fool's errand, that the US's original choice to lead Iraq -- Chalabi -- was an Iranian spy who told our enemies that we had cracked their communications code, that most of the Iraq is not under government control, that terrorists are now using the lawlessness in Iraq to recruit and train a whole new generation of terrorists, that our "Coalition of the Willing" is now a mere shell of its former self, that the world hates the United States, that the Euro is suddenly the hot currency, that Europe and Asia are both creating security organizations excluding the US, and that tens of thousands of our soldiers are coming home physically and mentally maimed.
None of that matters to them.
But they see the war getting out of hand. They've see our chances of victory go from little to nothing. And they've got to blame someone. Anyone. And of course, it can't be Saint George, because he's perfect and can do no wrong. So blame Kennedy. Blame Boxer. Blame France. Blame Canada. Blame anti-war bloggers. Because it is they who have botched up the Iraqi campaign to the point of no hope. If it wasn't for them, our troops would still be basking in a flood of rose petals.
The faith-based lunatics taking up residence in the White House and the Pentagon have ample ideological company in Tennessee law schools and other hidey holes of the wingnut blogosphere.
But at the end of the day, whether they'll ever admit it or not -- we were right, they were wrong. Reality isn't being too kind to their side.
Just my humble opinion - I am merely concerned that we will all be very sorry if we do not get a grip on this thing.
mr. bill
Why don't you go over to the DLC and ask if they have any odd-jobs you might do. Like taking out the trash or something.
At my advanced dotage, going to a club like "Berlin" would make me feel like Don Knotts in "Three's Company." Probably make me act like him as well....
actually, i'm getting a little long in the tooth to be dancing the night away with the kiddies, i'm lucky to look several years younger than my actual age. but it's a friend's birthday today, we're taking him out and this is a nice place to end the night.
and there are some 'old timers' who show up frequently. one guy has to be at least 60, he's little and ugly and follows around pretty women, ha ha, we call him "the troll."
not that you are like that in any way
This has been discussed and discussed. Personally, if we cave in on such a fundamental issue as equal rights, we will stop being the Democratic Party, and accelerate the slide to repug lite.
Respectfully diagree, this issue is not "discussed and discussed" because some will not accept that we cannot win elections on these issues at this point of time. Some refuse to accept that we can work for positive change in these areas in other ways. Some want to confuse the issue by bringing in a bunch of crap and saying, "but its all the same thing."
Resonable people can disagree if being put down because of your race -- especially in the context of slavery and segregation, is the same thing as the issues that gay people face.
Lets not kid ourselves -- there are gay people at the top of BOTH parties and they are well represented among the most powerful people in the world. If we want to play ball with these wedge issues, we will get NOTHING!
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
mr. bill: I do think that you make too much out of the context of that clip -- but reasonable people can disagree. The "twitch" that clip causes, IMHO, is not so much the moment, but the overall context of what chimpy has done and for whom the major beneficiaries are.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it was in any way misleading or dishonest for Michael Moore to not mention that the clip came from the Al Smith dinner of 2000. My censorious (former?) friend's argument seemed to imply that Bush's remarks about "his base" would be wholly palatable in that specific context, and unbelievably arrogant in any other. I disagree with that, absolutely.
.
Sun 12:06 AM
current Baghdad time
So voting starts about 7 hrs from now
.
Agave, I've already read reports of the "tears of joy and spontaneous applause" as ex-pat Iraqis vote - in North America.
WTF???
Re: The Tulsa Race Riot of 1921
When I was teaching in Norman, I used to do a little thought experiment in the importance of context: I'd toss out a common-place term, e.g., "race riot," and ask my students to write down the race of the rioters whose actions the term described. This was mid-late '90s.
The results were predictable, of course.
So were the results of a subsequent query designed to discover if these students, the overwhelming majority of whom were Oklahomans born and bred, had ever heard of the Tulsa Race Riot, in 1921; also called the Greenwood Race Riot; the race of the people who started it, and the costs--both human and economic--to its victims...read the link...
I was teaching classes--pre-service teacher-candidates, doing the required curriculum; my classes dealt with either the relation of school and culture, or with issues of literacy. They were composed of college sophomores and juniors, native spawn of the good red earth, and they were not only ignorant, but clueless about it in the vast majority of instances, and subsequently became offended to learn of this rancid blotch on the 'honor' of their state.
Now here's the thing: The law proposed before the Ohio legislature to protect the freedom of ignorance among the next generation of 'educated people' would, I am sure, have been invoked against me to prevent me from discussing this unpleasantness, and others, because a narrow understanding of the curriculum might be crafted to support its application, which is all the pretense needed, when one understands the purposes of the consors...
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
Wasn't that the motto of the Freedom Marchers?
one guy has to be at least 60, he's little and ugly and follows around pretty women, ha ha, we call him "the troll."
i am completely different; i am not actually ugly. More ruggedly handsome in a Freddie Prinze if he wasn't dead sort of way
Respectfully diagree, this issue is not "discussed and discussed" because some will not accept that we cannot win elections on these issues at this point of time.
What a fucking tool.
Resonable people can disagree if being put down because of your race -- especially in the context of slavery and segregation, is the same thing as the issues that gay people face.
Bigotry is bigotry, bigots are bigots - as you so blithely prove.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
Like listening to a bigot talk about who to throw to the wolves for the common good? Here, I agree.
Now blow it out your ass, brownshirt...
I must go. Stuff to do. Gentleman-friend and I have planned a hurricane party for the rest of the weekend, although there's nary a hurricane in sight.
We reason that since we had so much fun during the last 3 that didn't quite hit, it'd be MORE fun without looming thoughts of death and destruction. And this time, when nothing serious strikes and we tire of Beanie-Weenies and go out to find a restaurant, there will actually be a few open. And this time I won't be lugging gallons of water to his place.
Y'all have a good weekend, loves.
Now, you wanna talk about lame-ass attempts at humor? "Nope -- no WMDs under there!" Grrrr!
Besides, he already knew there were no WMDs under the desk/oval office/etc., and to (even pretend) look there is a waste of our taxpayer dollars!
"What's really funny is the wingers are now calling Sully "left-wing" so they will just say that the Times has replaced a conservative with a liberal."
That's because gayness (despite Sully's best efforts to have it otherwise) automatially defaults to the left.
I can see him at the NYT writing column after column about his stuffed up toilet, and handing out "Awards" to those who meet his disapproval. After that a monthly "The Horror of Howell Raines" screech or two. Then it's back to carrying water for Dubbya.
Sully's presence or absence from the NYT roster is of less concern than the continued sway Judy CIA "asset" Miller holds over the paper.
when the last yuppie is dead, the minority status of 'moralvalues' people will be very clear.
Please don't get me wrong, I agree with your statement. I just think we should be clear -- this yuppie thing was never about who was ACTUALLY young and upwardly mobile (relatively small group).
It was all about who WANTED to be young and upwardly mobile -- a much large group. It was all about TARGET MARKETING and using psychographics to get people to identify with certain lifestyles and the purchasing behavior (read: consumption) it takes to be part of that culture.
Once it served this purpose, marketers moved on to "greener" pastures.
Just remember:
No matter who you are or how old you
are, do not -- repeat do not --
take Ecstasy.
It makes you listen to really
awful music.
More ruggedly handsome in a Freddie Prinze if he wasn't dead sort of way
can i confess i don't really know who you're talking about? but not-dead handsome is always good, and several of my boys are single...c'mon by! we'll be there around midnight.
No matter who you are or how old you
are, do not -- repeat do not --
take Ecstasy.
It makes you listen to really
awful music.
Steve Simels | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 4:19 pm | #
Yeah, but you really don't care at the time, so it's okay.
To round out the discussion: Police in Germany are hunting pranksters who have been sticking miniature US flags into piles of dog poo in public parks.
HOT DAMN!!!! Silleigh, I saw that yesterday. I only wish I had remembered it when I was on my "feces" kick. Great link, thanks! Do you think this has anything to do with why profits of large US Multinationals like KRAFT are down and the profits of the multinational war machine are WAY WAY UP?
Sully's presence or absence from the NYT roster is of less concern than the continued sway Judy CIA "asset" Miller holds over the paper.
Bingo. Along with all the other bought-and-paid-for brownshirts on staff.
Must say I'm kind of taken aback that there isn't much interest in the story about Rumsfeld being sued in German courts for war crimes.
Apparently he's taking it seriously enough to cancel a trip to Munich.
See the Deutsche Welle web site for details.
More ruggedly handsome in a Freddie Prinze if he wasn't dead sort of way
can i confess i don't really know who you're talking about?
"Lookin' gooood..."
Freddie Prinze, the Hispanic Jimmy Walker.
Call me an optimist, but . . .
The gay rights movement WILL come to fruition, as do all civil rights movements eventually make progress. People simply do not deal well with any kind of apartheid- be it gender- based or race-based or orientation-based. It will be a long road but it will happen.
So, won't it be great when that day comes due to all of our hard work and people like Bush and Dobson and Fallwell and all of them look completely assinine? They will look like the same morons that opposed the black movements in the 1960s, they will look like the same idiots that opposed women's lib in the 70s. Someday, and I hope it is soon, George W. Bush, James Dobson and all the other names of people who "think" like them will be synonymous with "anti-gay neanderthal bigot."
there are gay people at the top of BOTH parties and they are well represented among the most powerful people in the world. If we want to play ball with these wedge issues, we will get NOTHING!
which is why outing is sooooo important. that's a wedge that will work, given enough time. i've said it before, i volunteer to go to DC and entrap hot republican closeted women in a LA Confidential style expose.
I respectfully disagree. The idea
that people voted for Bush because
of gay marriage or whatever
is, from what I've seen, unsupported
by poll numbers.
I will admit that my experience in research is limited, but it is a well accepted fact that asking people to describe the "why's and hows" of their behavior is WILDLY INACCURATE. If you want to learn the "whys and hows" you have to actually observe behavior.
Think what you will -- there is no evidence that the public is ready to embrace these issues in national elections. It is a wedge issue -- we haven't won on it yet and it certainly does get people on both sides up-in-arms.
Insanity is....
OT, but: Freevo!
mr. bill:
I hope I'm wrong, but.....
are you Ricky?
So, won't it be great when that day comes due to all of our hard work and people like Bush and Dobson and Fallwell and all of them look completely assinine? They will look like the same morons that opposed the black movements in the 1960s, they will look like the same idiots that opposed women's lib in the 70s. Someday, and I hope it is soon, George W. Bush, James Dobson and all the other names of people who "think" like them will be synonymous with "anti-gay neanderthal bigot."
Vestal Vespa
That's why they fear us so much. It will harm Christianty and their hold on power. Christianity was salvaged with black Civil Rights but not this time. That's why it's so dangerous for gays now. They'll see us go up in smoke before they'll let that happen and if they take complete control of this society, they will.
Now blow it out your ass, brownshirt...
I stated earlier, this was not going to be popular here.... guess I was right. Thanks -- I am sure we actually agree on all of the issues; just not on how to get there.
Gay people are represented in all walks of life -- some choose to support repugs because there are other issues that are more important to them. When we look at other groups of people that have been historically discriminated against -- THEY ARE STILL NOT distributeed throughout the socio-economic or political spectrum.
If you want to say, "but its the same thing!" I will have to disagree -- I will refrain from calling you a brownshirt, however.
another traitor speaks his mind:
Bill Gates, World's Richest Man, Bets Against Dollar (Update2)
Jan. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Bill Gates, the world's richest person with a net worth of $46.6 billion, is betting against the U.S. dollar.
``I'm short the dollar,'' Gates, chairman of Microsoft Corp., told Charlie Rose in an interview late yesterday at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. ``The ol' dollar, it's gonna go down.''
Gates's concern that widening U.S. budget and trade deficits are undermining the dollar was echoed in Davos by policymakers including European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.
The dollar fell 21 percent against a basket of six major currencies from the start of 2002 to the end of last year. The trade deficit swelled to a record $609.3 billion last year and total U.S. government debt rose 8.7 percent to $7.62 trillion in the past 12 months.
Joke I made up (actually it's Bush's sly joke on the Iraqis):
Did you hear that after voting, Iraqis must submit a fingerprint and have his name scratched off the voting list in order to prevent him from returning to the poll site to vote again?
Scroll down for the punch line...
which is why outing is sooooo important. that's a wedge that will work
100% agreement there! I am on your side -- just have seen this country change in ways that I could never have imagined when I was a young, idealistic hippie. These changes are not for the better. I just pray that we can find ways to work together and not become marginalized.
Think what you will -- there is no evidence that the public is ready to embrace these issues in national elections. It is a wedge issue -- we haven't won on it yet and it certainly does get people on both sides up-in-arms.
That's because the Democratic Party is so wishy-washy about it. They're going to get tarred with it anyway so take it and OWN IT because it is the right thing to do and history will bear that out.
The no. 1 reason people voted for w was security. no. 2 values. There was only one or two percentage points separating them. I would posit that those who voted values are the hard core right fundies who want to outlaw aborton, women's rights, birth control, etc. We aint never gonna get them, and we shouldn't even try as their platform is directly antithetical to that of the left. Some things we can compromise on, some we can't. Human rights is one of the ones we can't.
Birth control=baby pesticide - gawsh - best line I have read in a long time.
WGG -
"Oklahomans born and bred, had ever heard of the Tulsa Race Riot, in 1921;"
Funny you should mention this. My mum, born and bred Tulsa girl, had extremely vivid (albeit childishly formed) memories of the riot, right down to how the bodies were described as being laid out in the Armoury. Things were very, very bad indeed - so much so she recalled that her Daddy packed her and her Mama down to shirttail relatives in Chouteau. (Carrying another memory - they ran a little store there and used pneumatic tubes to send money back and forth. And she was bought a brand new pair of shiny black patent leather shoes too.)
The Tulsa race riot was, of course, only one of a series post WWI - and can justifiably be marked as the modern beginning of the fight for civil rights. A whole long of consequences folks didn't realise to the Great War.
Gotta shut down - there IS a by-God tornado brewing outside.
There you go Europe, it's up to you. I rest my case.
That's why they fear us so much. It will harm Christianty and their hold on power. Christianity was salvaged with black Civil Rights but not this time. That's why it's so dangerous for gays now. They'll see us go up in smoke before they'll let that happen and if they take complete control of this society, they will.
Ô¿Ô
Nonsense, Gene Robinson, The UCC (seen the Spongepants Bob Visits the UCC in Clevland yet?) There are millions of Christians who are entirely accepting of Christianity, millions of lesbians and gay men who are Christians.
If you're going to draw a line and say it's Christians on one side and gay people on the other we will get sent up a chimney. Fortunately it's not reality.
Like listening to a bigot talk about who to throw to the wolves for the common good?
You really are a hostile moron, however -- I support gay rights and will not throw anyone out. I am not doing anything that will enable that to happen and am just trying to humnly work towards positive change. I did not create any of these problems -- you are the fool that is willing to throw your companion to the wolves to accomplish nothing. Peace to all!
Gotta shut down - there IS a by-God tornado brewing outside.
GWPDA
Take care. I know exactly what it's like.
The gay rights movement WILL come to fruition, as do all civil rights movements eventually make progress. People simply do not deal well with any kind of apartheid- be it gender- based or race-based or orientation-based. It will be a long road but it will happen.
I agree. Pandora's box is not only opened, but it's seriously kickin' out the jams. After World War II, certain people were quite shocked that things didn't go back to "the way they were", and the large number of women in the workforce because of the war, the more intergrated Army (relatively speaking) and just plain ol' normal G.I.'s seeing the rest of the world outside whatever little hamlet they grew up in undoubtably had some sort of seeding effect on the massive Civil Rights changes in the '50s and '60s.
Same thing with the different issues we struggle with now. There'll come a time when we just won't fuckin' care who someone else fucks because we - meaning straight people, mostly, as them in power - know it doesn't really matter when all's said and done. I just wonder if we as a culture will pretend this earlier "unpleasentness" of anti-gay marriage amendments and dingbat preachers going after "diversity" via cartoon characters didn't happen like we pretend most of the pre-60s racial strife didn't happen.
Probably.
and for those of us who are online junkies...more good news! not.
An influential congressional committee has dropped a political bombshell by suggesting that a tax originally created to pay for the Spanish American War could be extended to all Internet and data connections this year.
The committee, deeply involved in writing U.S. tax laws, unexpectedly said in a report Thursday that the 3 percent telecommunications tax could be revised to cover "all data communications services to end users," including broadband; dial-up; fiber; cable modems; cellular; and DSL, or digital subscriber line, links.
Currently, the 3 percent excise tax applies only to traditional telephone service. But because of technological convergence and the dropping popularity of landlines, the Joint Committee on Taxation concluded in its review of tax law reforms that it might make sense to extend the 100-year old levy to new technologies. The committee did not take a position on whether Congress should approve such an extension and simply listed it as an "option."
from DU.
Agave, I've already read reports of the "tears of joy and spontaneous applause" as ex-pat Iraqis vote - in North America.
WTF???
Ripley
I'm sure they have a different view of the whole thing from here.
.
which is why outing is sooooo important. that's a wedge that will work, given enough time. i've said it before, i volunteer to go to DC and entrap hot republican closeted women in a LA Confidential style expose.
======================
I'm still of two minds about outing as how people enjoy their sexuality is highly personal. But...if the person in question is in any way denigrating gays then he/she deserves to be outed for his/her hypocrisy.
Go to it chicage dyke. You have my blessing.
If you're going to draw a line and say it's Christians on one side and gay people on the other we will get sent up a chimney. Fortunately it's not reality.
EPT
ha ha That was funny to me for some reason. But I think it's quite clear that homosexuality is condemened in the Bible and they've made anti-gay bigotry one of the 5 pillars of Christiantiy.
That's because the Democratic Party is so wishy-washy about it. They're going to get tarred with it anyway so take it and OWN IT because it is the right thing to do and history will bear that out.
Ô¿Ô
Gee, chimpy says the same thing about his "foreign policy" (kind of an oxymoron, huh?)
What I find interesting about the Uptight Right and neocons is that they're So obsessed and "affected" by what other people do. As if the knowledge itself somehow taints their purity and relationship to whatever god they believe in or somehow melts their personal values.
If you want to pray, pray. If you don't want to engage in anal sex with a man, don't. If you don't want to see 2 women orally pleasure each other, don't watch.
The "Right" seems to have a serious issue with engaging their own self-responsibility, and feel a need to have other people's behavior legislated for their own peace of mind.
As far as gay marriage is concerned, time is, as they say, on our side. Polls show that younger folks, even conservative ones, tend not to give a flying fuck (so to speak) about gay marriage.
And, when gay marriage was (briefly) legalized in ABQ, and New Paltz, and SF, the photos coming out of that, of happy same sex couples, generated a tremendous lack of outrage from the American people.
As a nation, we just don't get pissed off when we see people happy... so there's some hope yet.
Backslider-
I honestly don't know how most Republicans expect anything to "go back to how it was" at any point in history? Did they really think most women were going to happily give up a steady paycheck and a sense of autonomy to go back to their kitchens? Did they really think that Blacks were just going to sit back and keep taking it? And now, do they really think that gays are going to go quietly back in their closets and shut up about all that equal rights nonsense?
Liberals are idealists about what can be in the future. Conservatives are idealists who think we can go back to the past.
RUN Mr Bill!
RUN !
.
I'm with Quiltlady.
Any prominent closeted Republican
who's purusuing an anti-gay agenda
should be outed big time.
Starting with that fuckwad David
Dreier.
No. 1 reason, security and no. 2 reason, values--both are a myth. But don't ask me how to change their minds. Unless, and until both are shown to be a hoax, and they will be. The sad thing is is that it will effect us all.
When we look at other groups of people that have been historically discriminated against -- THEY ARE STILL NOT distributeed throughout the socio-economic or political spectrum.
If you want to say, "but its the same thing!" I will have to disagree -- I will refrain from calling you a brownshirt, however.
mr. bill | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 4:27 pm | #
But they're human beings, gay or straight, so it's the "same thing". Gay rights is human rights, and to quote the great philosopher Lemmy, just cause you got the power doesn't mean you got the right. I may be misunderstanding you, but couldn't you extrapolate your thought thusly: "Hey, black people are represented in all walks, and some support Republicans, so there's no need to put much emphasis on racial issues."
It just seems to me if we - as progressives and not neccessarily the Democratic Party - give up ground here just to placate the "moral public", it's gonna be that much harder down the line when we're actually ready to fight the fight.
But that's just the way I see things, and I don't call anyone a brownshirt.
But I think it's quite clear that homosexuality is condemened in the Bible and they've made anti-gay bigotry one of the 5 pillars of Christiantiy.
Ô¿Ô
Let's see, remarriage after divorce, eating shell fish, eating pork, being uncut, ..... Christianity has gotten over these and most difficult of all, usury. The bigots have made anti-gay bigotry one of the pillars of "christianity", to ignore good people who are Christians is no better or wiser than pretending that every Moslem is a blood thirsty misogynist or every resident of Lousiana is a drooling Republican.
You want to survive as a memeber of a small and deeply hated minority you've got to make alliances and have friends. We can't afford to give up on more than eighty percent of the population.
Motorhead pulled into poltical discussion - I love it! Eat the Rich
As far as gay marriage is concerned, time is, as they say, on our side. Polls show that younger folks, even conservative ones, tend not to give a flying fuck (so to speak) about gay marriage.
You may be right, but it would be foolish to think that people will not change their mind as they get older. If you remember the 60's and early 70/s -- you would have never guessed we would be in the mess we are in now.
The "Right" seems to have a serious issue with engaging their own self-responsibility, and feel a need to have other people's behavior legislated for their own peace of mind.
Ripley | Email | Homepage
It's that whole "freedom from" rather than "freedom to" thing.
The Mormon lady I worked with tried to explain to me that Christians believe you should be pure of mind, so if there is anything in a culture that promotes impurity, that means the culture is "imposing" sin upon others.
Which is positively ridiculous. Evangelist Christians need to take control of their lives and realize that they do have free agency, free will and the God-given ability to shut off the TV whenever they want.
You may be right
I am.
Gay, schmay...dissonance makes for great minds and lockstep harmony for the tiny narrow opposite.
Consider Leonardo diVinci and, a bit of sublime, today's announcement of a fresco-covered 500-year old set of rooms in central Florence, Italy that, possibly, were used by the Master as a studio and workshop.
As di Vinci discovered in 1476, homosexuality, even then, made a handy Big Lie accusation for the supposedly Christian power locksteppers missing the tiniest mental grains of understanding or, in diVinci's case, civic gratitude.
Starting with that fuckwad David
Dreier.
=======================
Smarmy, self-rightous prick. Two more seconds and I'll be calling him a motherfucker, a word I never used before the currect maladministration.
I'm sorry, but I strongly suspect Mr Bill
is Ricky.
You want to survive as a memeber of a small and deeply hated minority you've got to make alliances and have friends. We can't afford to give up on more than eighty percent of the population.
EPT
Nah, fuck them and their false belief of Christianity and fuck their "tolerance", too. I got their tolerance hanging.
That gene study on gayness doesn't look too strong to me. It sounds like a lot of other studies which appear to find something on a small sample of people, but then when others try to find the same thing they fail. So I'd wait to pass judgment.
I'm an expert in dogs who eat crap. I have one. She only eats the crap of my other dog, and has gotten really clever about it because she knows I don't allow it. She walks past the new steaming pile sort of nonchalantly, whistling and looking the other way, and then, in slow circles, sniffing here and there and NOT there, she just "happens" on the shit. Then I yell horribly and she jumps up in the air. Echidne one, Hank zero, until tomorrow.
An interesting point is that as I interpret the polls, a lot of people who voted for The Leader disagreed with him on particular issues. They voted for him because they felt he was clear on issues even if they didnt agree with him. The Democrats would be a lot better served by saying, "yea, we absolutely believe that people should not be discriminated against based on sexual preference, race or anything else. And the other side doesnt believe that. If you think discrimination is okay, dont vote for us." Not that many people actually care that much about the Democrats supporting gays. I think the wishy-washiness of the Democrats hurt them more than their actual position on the issue.
And by the way, check out my belated Friday cat blogging...
That's because the Democratic Party is so wishy-washy about it. They're going to get tarred with it anyway so take it and OWN IT because it is the right thing to do and history will bear that out.
Ô¿Ô
You're right. I didn't like the way we, as party tip-toed around it during the presidential campaign. It was one of many issues that we waffled on.
This is clearly a civil rights issue, and we're the party that stands up for people's civil rights.
oh -- and it is kind of hard to think of Cheney's lesbian daughter as a poor, disadvantaged person. Reasonable people can disagree on that one.
She chooses her issues "carefully," and so do TONS of other gays! Yet some want to scream "brownshirt" at people that agree with them 100% on issues of dignity and human rights. It just amazes me...
I'm still of two minds about outing as how people enjoy their sexuality is highly personal. But...if the person in question is in any way denigrating gays then he/she deserves to be outed for his/her hypocrisy.
QL- i've become militant since coming out on the outing issue. obviously, hypocrites deserve no consideration, ken mehlman being the prime example. self hating gays who make a living bashing gays like him really deserve the worst.
and i take it further. not that it's anyone business what anyone does in bed, but i do think that the continued option of the closet is part of the bigger problem. it supports the assertion that there is something to be ashamed of by being queer. there isn't, any more than there is to being black or poor or republican (see what an open mind i have!)- it's time we forced this country to accept that. if it means some gays are uncomfortable at work at times, or even unfairly targeted or fired, i'm sorry but that's the cost of real social change. freedom riders took a lot more shit than harsh words before they accomplished their goals, we shouldn't be any different.
oh -- and it is kind of hard to think of Cheney's lesbian daughter as a poor, disadvantaged person. Reasonable people can disagree on that one.
She chooses her issues "carefully," and so do TONS of other gays! Yet some want to scream "brownshirt" at people that agree with them 100% on issues of dignity and human rights. It just amazes me...
So? And Clarence Thomas is richer than I am. Does this mean we can just pretend racism doesn't exist?
Oh, hey, Hillary's a senator! What are all them feminists bitching (so to speak) about?
So bloody stupid.
It just seems to me if we - as progressives and not neccessarily the Democratic Party - give up ground here just to placate the "moral public", it's gonna be that much harder down the line when we're actually ready to fight the fight.
Totally agree. We should not back down on this issue. What we must to is find a way to frame it and make it more acceptable. Mostly, to those who *fear* that which they don't understand, figure out a way to help them see more clearly. Try to make them empathetic, something. If we're doing something wrong, it'a that we haven't found a way or some ways to present this more successfully.
I still think that most Americans don't have a problem with gays. Too many of us have gay friends and/or family.
Of course, this bit of logic always escapes them:
God created Satan, god created Man, god decided that all mankind after Adam and Eve would be born into sin, my sin doesn't affect your salvation not does my final destination affect yours, god's will is to be followed bcause god is omnitient and omnipotent. In summary, god is responsible for the sins of other people and there's nothing you can do about it.
Im in favor of not only outting Republican politicians who pursue an anti-gay agenda, I think those who provide money to them should be outted. Thats right Mr. Christian Businessman from Texas with the rent boy. Im talking about you. The people who give money to these hate mongers need to know that that level of hypocrisy will see the light of day.
Let's see, remarriage after divorce, eating shell fish, eating pork, being uncut, ..... Christianity has gotten over these and most difficult of all, usury.
Yeah, but that's heteros. They've always been very generous to themselves.
now THIS (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20030905-2.html) i found VERY interesting ...
alberto gonzales doing "ask the whitehouse" september 9, 2003.
what a scary guy!
I'm sorry, but I strongly suspect Mr Bill
is Ricky.
Steve Simels
Assuming you mean Valiant-- Mmmm, I dunno. Was RV ever that coherent? And he hasn't mentioned Jenna once...
Yup, he's Ricky.
By the by, don't know if this has been mentioned, but once again the US is proving that, as neighbors go, we're somewhat less pleasant than Homer Simpson:
American evangelists are urging Canadians to oppose same-sex marriage. The anti-gay groups are using Christian broadcasters to spread the message.
Earlier this week, James Dobson, chairman of the Colorado-based Focus on the Family, in a broadcast heard on 130 radio stations across Canada denounced the government of Prime Minister Paul Martin which will bring in a same-sex marriage bill next week.
bill, invoking mary cheney is a really stupid move. she's one of the worst examples one can bring up, hypocrite and selfhating fool that she is. just because she has rights doesn't mean that i do. obviously.
Backslider-
I honestly don't know how most Republicans expect anything to "go back to how it was" at any point in history?
My mother's all the time sending me those glurg emails that talk about how good things were when grandma was born and asks "how could it go so wrong". And country music - something I still dearly love, despite the current clut of lameness out of Nashvegas - is full of tunes that talk about how good the good ol' days were when being "down" with something meant you were sick.
I tell Momma, "Yeah, and when Mommaw was born, a black man could be hung from a tree on suspicion of 'looking' at a white woman. A battered wife had to shut up and take it. A father who was hurt on the job was up shit creek. The government lied to us constantly but we had no idea (unless someone pissed someone powerful off). A gay teenager in a small town basically had to resign him/herself to a life of living a lie or face getting the shit kicked out of him. Women died in childbirth at an alarming rate. A little girl who wanted to grow up to be a scientist or lawyer was laughed out of the room."
When I was about six months old, I had surgery to clip a stomach muscle that was blocking my esophagus. I couldn't take in solid foods, weighed next to nothing and damn near died. Had it been "the good ol' days" those emails and songs speak of, I would've died.
There was no "golden age" of either humanity or America. Things are better now across the board than they've ever been, and though they're not perfect, means neither we should give up nor that they won't get better.
And besides, it's conflict that, basically, means absolutely nothing. So, of course, Americans jump on it like a dog on a bone. People get all worked up over "going back to when things were good" - which they never were - will find themselves completely irrelevent in the future. Progress, not staticism, is the function of mankind and, indeed, life. However, progress scares people, and people who make progress happen - be they Gallelio or Dr. King - scare the living shit out of some people. Interestingly, them that are the most scared tend to have the most to "lose" when the monkeys shake the tree. It's almost always about holding on to that power in the end.
Later that week, 14,000,000 Candians said "Take off, Dobson, you fuckin hoser"
and i take it further. not that it's anyone business what anyone does in bed, but i do think that the continued option of the closet is part of the bigger problem. it supports the assertion that there is something to be ashamed of by being queer
Right, but most heteros believe that we were in the closet because we were ashamed. No, heteros, we were in there to hide from you.
somewhat OT, but here is a photo showing Family Values in action.
One thinks we need comment from FOF, Falwell, Robertson, Bob Jones U.
jenna%20and%20tonic-1.jpg (JG I
and this is interesting:
US prepares invasion of Venezuela: Venezuelan ambassador
www.chinaview.cn 2005-01-28
The United States is preparing a future invasion of Venezuela to control the petroleum of the South American country as it did in Iraq, said Venezuela's acting ambassador to Paraguay, Elmer Nino.
Nino, cited Thursday by local Paraguayan daily ABC Color, said the present diplomatic crisis between Venezuela and Colombia was created by the United States as part of its future plans for an invasion.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez froze his country's diplomatic and commercial ties with Colombia in early January to protest what he called Colombia's "kidnapping" of a rebel leader in Caracas, the Venezuelan capital, which he considered as a violation of Venezuelan national sovereignty.
The government of Colombia rejected Chavez's demand to make apologies to end the dispute.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/englis...28/
content_25...
Backslider:
Who was the LA punk band that got
really teed off about the Judds
song about "the good old days"?
Probably X, but I'm not sure.
Whoever,
I think they actually wrote an
answer song called "Sorry, Naomi."
Could, metaphorically of course, the names of other dogs who eat crap be the likes of Dreier, Mehlman, our little cuddily-wuddily Sully and maybe big pasty-white faux-butch faux-reporter Jeff Gannon???
Also--anybody see the Conan show clip of Triumph the Insult Dog's Presidential Debate bit in ifilm.com's Viral Video section? It's craptacular...a poopapalousa of political poop.
I'm sorry, but I strongly suspect Mr Bill
is Ricky.
Steve Simels
thanks for the innuendo and slander -- guess it says something about the thoughtful insight you have to contribute here.
We can stand up for gay rights without playing ball on the wedge issues -- guess that is to strong a statement here.
We could frame the issues in terms of "personal responsibility -- people being responsible to themselves and not the govenment -- people can make the choice and be responsible for their gay unions; it is no one else's business.
We could frame the issue as "get the government off our backs!" There are more important things for government to do. Being a bedroom cop is not one of them.
We could frame the issues as adequate healthcare for ALL regardless of marriage or employment.
Some prefer to frame it as "look at me, I am gay!" and "You have to give me what I want because I am part of a disadvantaged class" (Lynn Cheney certainly is not part of a disadvantaged class). This will not build any coalitions of support.
it is kind of hard to think of Cheney's lesbian daughter as a poor, disadvantaged person
Whaa? Is the working assumption that Dick Go Fuck Yourself Chenron's Lesbian Daughter™ is the lesbian exemplar?
Doesn't Dick Go Fuck Yourself Chenron's Lesbian Daughter™ have a name?
That See Arnold Run documentary blogad.
I don't think that is Arnold in that picture.
Anyone else notice that?
People get all worked up over "going back to when things were good" - which they never were - will find themselves completely irrelevent in the future.
heh. Just happened to catch that scene in The American President where the prez talks about his opponent recalling the *good ol' days* to fire up the sheeple.
That movie is on a lot. Wonder if it's making an impression on anyone.
The Mormon lady I worked with tried to explain to me that Christians believe you should be pure of mind, so if there is anything in a culture that promotes impurity, that means the culture is "imposing" sin upon others.
========================
Fuck. The Mormons also believe Jesus visited the new world and pockets of Mormons still practice multiple marriage with the head of one sect having about 80 wives. The old goat. Every time he sees a sweet young girl of 14 or 15, god tells him to wed her. Google it, is happening now. Mormons have absolutely no credibility. As to the the fundies, the Dominionists, of which Pat Robertson is one of the leaders, believe that since slavery is the Bible, it is okay. Do they really think entire populations are going to become slaves. Don't believe me. Read here.
I don't know what they are planning for NYC, but I bet it isn't pretty.
bill, invoking mary cheney is a really stupid move. she's one of the worst examples one can bring up, hypocrite and selfhating fool that she is. just because she has rights doesn't mean that i do. obviously.
she is one of many thousands -- tell me more what a disadvantaged class gays are. Their might be better ways to frame this issue.
Jeff Gannon Strikes Back at his Liberal Critics
Ô¿Ô, you have to do what you think is best, I'm not giving up my beliefs or my friends. There are many Christian denominations that are entirely welcoming to lesbians and gay men, I'm glad they're there. I suggest that all lesbian and gay members of bigoted denominations leave and join one. If this happened my guess is that there would be amazement at the growth of liberal Christian churches. If only lesbian and gay Roman Catholics left for a religon that wants them and not just their money and labor it would shake the establishment to their core.
We could frame the issues in terms of "personal responsibility -- people being responsible to themselves and not the govenment -- people can make the choice and be responsible for their gay unions; it is no one else's business.
We could frame the issue as "get the government off our backs!" There are more important things for government to do. Being a bedroom cop is not one of them.
We could frame the issues as adequate healthcare for ALL regardless of marriage or employment.
My God, do you have any awareness of the realities of the fight for equal rights?
You think this isn't already being done? If that's truly what you think, get off this comments board, and go educate yourself about the realities of this particular political fight.
Clarence Thomas is richer than I am. Does this mean we can just pretend racism doesn't exist?
of course not -- there are many fewer african americans in positions of power (politically or economically)in this group of "disadvantaged" people. If someone wants to say its the same thing -- their choice, obviously, others disagree.
There was no "golden age" of either humanity or America. Things are better now across the board than they've ever been, and though they're not perfect, means neither we should give up nor that they won't get better.
backslider- this is the heart of so many issues. life is hard, and then you die, and that's just a simple, ugly fact. when people become old enough to understand this, they are faced with a choice: live life to the fullest in the now, or deny life in all it's richness, joy and pain in favor of an imaginary world where everything is perfect.
think about it. religion, bigotry, wingnuttery- all of these are states of mind which allow one to suspend reality in favor of something more comfortable. in the end, people who don't have the personal, spiritual, or intellectual strength will choose the dreaming option. to the detriment of all. it's why they hate us so much, with our 'facts' and 'reason-' they are jealous of us for being able to do what they cannot.
The trolls always give the game
away, eventually. It's wondrous
to behold....
We can stand up for gay rights without playing ball on the wedge issues -- guess that is to strong a statement here.
Democrats can only take the issue and own it. Then confront the repukes with it and make them look like the intolerant bigots they are. They successfully avoided that label while attacking our struggle in the past election. Democrats either take and own this issue or throw us to Dobson. Being wishy-washy about it isn't helping them or us.
I am.
we'll see
Don't Mormons believe the universe is the result of God having a wet dream? And that all MEN, at least all Mormon men will become gods?
Please, don't hang Joseph Smith on Christianity. That won't help at all.
Lynn Cheney certainly is not part of a disadvantaged class
The lesbian's name is Mary.
The DLC's new campaign song:
If our values are what stops us from winning,
We'll denounce them and call them sinning.
Jeff Gannon Strikes Back at his Liberal Critics
Don't you mean strikes out? The man's a paid hack. He has the principles of a tsetse fly.
Shoo. You're a silly twit.
If you remember the 60's and early 70/s -- you would have never guessed we would be in the mess we are in now.
mr. bill
Read an interesting article in the Nation. It was about something I've thinking for awhile.
The mess we're in may have been predicable as is a direct result of the 60's and 70's. The sudden appearance of the hippies, the antiwar movement, free love, drugs all schocked and theatened conservative Americans. We are still experiencing the back lash. Liberal, the democratic party are now identified with all the "excesses" of that period.
Apparenttently the same happened after The Womens Sufferage and Temperance movements. The backlash lasted decades.
Part of me wishes I understood religion. The other part is glad it does not.
And Bill, what you suggest we do is what democrats have been doing all along. Has it helped any? Hell no, it hasn't.
Having witnessed mr bill's latest effort in subject-avoidance, I shall desist from addressing it any longer.
The day that mr bill is denied access to his partner in hospital because he isn't legally married to her, and cannot be, and thus she must die alone, then perhaps he will begin to reconsider all these posts about gays not being oppressed.
Some prefer to frame it as "look at me, I am gay!" and "You have to give me what I want because I am part of a disadvantaged class" (Lynn Cheney certainly is not part of a disadvantaged class). This will not build any coalitions of support.
mr. bill
But anyone with a shred of humanity, a hope of dignity, and a ragged chinchilla of conscience has to frame it as a matter of simple justice and equity. Coalitions with those who do not support or endorse simple justice, equity and humanity are bargains with the devils you don't want to know...
You are now free to move about the country, trool...
Some prefer to frame it as "look at me, I am gay!" and "You have to give me what I want because I am part of a disadvantaged class"
ok, now i really am starting to wonder if you're RV. exactly what is wrong with being out and proud? exactly what is wrong with demanding your rights, and demanding that others recognize that you are being denied those rights? am i just supposed to wait for the fundie god to stir their brains and get them to see the light?
you need to think this thru more carefully, bill.
Motorhead pulled into poltical discussion - I love it! Eat the Rich
Ripley | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 4:40 pm | #
Hey, I've got a role to play, I recognize that, and I've already made a crack about using drugs, so...it was inevitable.
You may be right, but it would be foolish to think that people will not change their mind as they get older. If you remember the 60's and early 70/s -- you would have never guessed we would be in the mess we are in now.
mr. bill | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 4:40 pm | #
Why not? Face it, amigos, humans bein' just loooove hatin' on each other. It's all a matter of who you can get away with hatin' on that's telling. These days, it's gays and Arabic people. Keep fuckin' till we're all the same color, destroy all national boundaries and everyone's bisexual, and we'll find ourselves in a holy war between blondes and redheads.
It's the journey, though, and not the arrival that's important. If you're basing actions on final success, you're pissing in the wind. Doesn't mean the fight stops, though.
Right, but most heteros believe that we were in the closet because we were ashamed. No, heteros, we were in there to hide from you.
Ô¿Ô | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 4:50 pm | #
And I for one don't blame you. Everytime I hear some dingaling say "gay people chose to be gay", I can't help but think, "Jay-sus, you mean there are actually people out there who willingly decided to be considered by the general run of society to be a demented pervert at best and the spawn of Satan at worst? You mean people are actually okay with the idea that, were they to get an Alabama ass-whuppin' by some brain-dead homophobic redneck, there's other, well-paid people who'll explain why it's okay? Why?"
None of the wingnuts I've ever met could ever explain to me why gay people would "chose" to be gay. There's no sense in it, because to be quite honest, humans are a cowardly, craven lot. We, as a general rule - and that goes double for Americans - take the easiest route. If people could "chose" the gay lifestyle, I mean really chose who they're attracted to and fall in love with, they wouldn't. Not for all the fabulously designed apartments in the world, or whatever the fuck reasoning is tripping drunkenly through the wingnut mind.
'slider; Dolly, at least, saw the past for what it was...
We'd get up before sun-up to get the work done up
We'd work in the fields till the sun had gone down
We've stood and we've cried as we have bristly watched
A hailstorm a' beatin' our crops to the ground
We've gone to bed hungry many nights in the past
In the good old days when times were bad
Chorus:
No amount of money could buy from me
The memories that i have of then
No amount of money could pay me
To go back and live through it again
I've seen daddy's hands break open and bleed
And i've seen him work till he's stiff as a board
An' i've seen momma layin' in suffer and sickness
In need of a doctor we couldn't afford
Anything at all was more than we had
In the good old days when times were bad
We've got up before and found ice on the floor
Where the wind would blow snow through the cracks in the wall
And i couldn't enjoy then, havin' a boyfriend
I had nothing decent to wear at all
So i long for a love that i never had
In the good old days when times were bad
Totally agree. We should not back down on this issue. What we must to is find a way to frame it and make it more acceptable.
Thanks for interjecting that point -- that is really all I have been tryin to say, but not so eloquently. We can support gay rights by building coalitions among broader groups and not playing ball on the wedge issues.
Many believe that Martin Luther King was assassinated because he was going to broaden his message to ALL EXONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGED AMERICANS. Arguing about the color of our skin or sexual orientation keeps us apart. Just look at this thread -- I agree with virtually ALL of the values expoused here, yet am called a "brownshirt."
I, for one, would sure have appreciated an opportunity to see how powerful this message would have been if Dr. King would have been allowed to broaden his coalition.
Just rec'd the following in an e-mail. Anyone know if it's true?
If you receive an email titled: "It Takes Guts to Say Jesus" DO NOT OPEN IT. It will erase everything on your hard drive. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa," and that there is NO Remedy for it at this time.
rupes--The Arnold movie is a docudrama, not a doc. The actor playing AS at age 25 is Roland Kickinger. Jurgen Prochnow plays the older AArnold. Just click the ad if you want more details.
It's the journey, though, and not the arrival that's important. If you're basing actions on final success, you're pissing in the wind. Doesn't mean the fight stops, though.
I know it's been said before, but it's always good to hear it.
Well, I'm off to make spinach gnocchi.
See ya later. Be nice.
Whoever,
I think they actually wrote an
answer song called "Sorry, Naomi."
Steve Simels | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 4:53 pm | #
Green On Red, maybe? It's been a long, long time since I listened to any of their stuff - it's more NYMary's baliwick - but I remember a song of that title by them. Dunno if it's the same tune you're thinking off. I'm pretty sure X never did a song of that title, or if they did, it's on Hey Zeus which is pretty dull.
That See Arnold Run documentary blogad.
I don't think that is Arnold in that picture.
Well, not this decade's Ahnuld, anyway.
I agree with virtually ALL of the values expoused here, yet am called a "brownshirt."
that's what, eight times you've said this? sigh. thanks for disrupting the thread so well, sir. obviously talking about gay issues all day has distracted most from the real news. well done.
trolls- getting more sophisticated all the time.
You think this isn't already being done? If that's truly what you think, get off this comments board, and go educate yourself about the realities of this particular political fight.
If what you are trying to say is that a person would have to look elsewhere for a more rational analysis of this issue, I wholeheartedly agree -- thanks!
a ragged chinchilla of conscience
I think I slept with her.
chicago dyke about outing, I'm in favor of outing active members of the Repulbican party, the hierarchy of any officially anti-gay church or institution, the non-estranged children and siblings of powerful gay bashers, and just about anyone else who has given up the right to a private life.
For example I've asked Olympia Snowe how she could have supported Margaret Sellings and the Bush Junta in general. Her being a lesbian has been an open secret in Maine for decades.
...there is NO Remedy for it at this time.
I suggest a laying-on of hands on the CPU.
That picture of the bodybuilder in the ad makes me sick, for some reason. I imagine all his veins bursting and his eyes bulging out and all his organs screaming for help.
I'm saying you need to get off your ass and get involved in gay activism before you start spouting off bullshit opinions about how the gay rights fight should be fought.
Go, boy.
And on that note, I take myself to dinner.
Well, I'm off to make spinach gnocchi.
i have yet to be able to make this successfully. and believe me, i've tried. come back and tell us how you do it- i've heard freezing helps.
a ragged chinchilla of conscience
I think I slept with her.
monica_nyc | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 5:08 pm | #
you and me both, honey.
Doozer-
As usual, Dolly Parton nails it.
That picture of the bodybuilder in the ad makes me sick
Shaved body. Yech. No one looks like that without chemical enhancement.
Please, don't hang Joseph Smith on Christianity.
Now that's funny Mr. Navoo!
obviously talking about gay issues all day has distracted most from the real news.
Spot on -- and we could resolve these issues by working together. Nothing I have posted says that gays don't deserve respect, dignity, and the rights that others expect (some still don't get them, however). To those that prefer to create discourse.... guess its just "business as usual"
WOW, and I thought the PC/MAC thread was "ticklish!"
None of the wingnuts I've ever met could ever explain to me why gay people would "chose" to be gay. There's no sense in it, because to be quite honest, humans are a cowardly, craven lot.
Yeah, and if they felt we were actual human beings too, and not subhuman "icky" fags anyway, they would be forced to take the next logical step in accepting that it's wrong to deny others equality. It's like Bush being asked the question if he thought it was a choice for gays and he said, "I don't know." Then he proceeded to bash us into the White House. You would think before you harmed others, you would be absolutely sure you were right. Regardless, it doesn't matter if it's a choice anyway. And fuck those who believe gays are bad and should be mistreated.
Please, don't hang Joseph Smith on Christianity.
Now that's funny Mr. Navoo!
spinoza
How about on a cross of gold?
Monica, the virus warnings always have some mention of AOL and IBM to lend legitimacy.
I'd be more concerned about Who was sending me Jesus Loves You e-mails than a virus. I do subscribe to the Falwell newsletter as a defensive tactic, though, and it contains a lot more "liberals are evil, and support Liberty University" than Jesus Loves You.
hard drive. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa," and that there is NO Remedy for it at this time.
monica_nyc
Um, foax?...it's a hoax
If you receive an email titled: "It Takes Guts to Say Jesus" DO NOT OPEN IT. It will erase everything on your hard drive. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa," and that there is NO Remedy for it at this time.
monica_nyc
Usually these are bogus.
Just opening an email can't do anything.
Jesus Loves You
(everyone else thinks you're an asshole)
Ingod, I WISH Bush could/would bash gays *into* the White House. What a sweet thought!!
"There are many Christian denominations that are entirely welcoming to lesbians and gay men, I'm glad they're there. I suggest that all lesbian and gay members of bigoted denominations leave and join one. If this happened my guess is that there would be amazement at the growth of liberal Christian churches."
Yeah, but I have to say it. If you migrate to the United Presbyterians for the justice, YOU'RE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR HELPING TO REPAIR THE ROOF.
I have been a United Presbyterian in many congregations in many places, and I swear to the Lord God Almighty that there is a conspiracy of anti-Christ roofers directed entirely toward us. I mean it. Damn, we never catch up and the roof repairs never work. So, just saying. You all come and join in fellowship, but don't forget to chip in on the collection.
That's right. I'm denouncing roofers. (Not mine at the moment tho - living in a brick house means I'm prepared to face down the weather, provided the winds stay mild. Milder.)
Ô¿Ô, you have to do what you think is best, I'm not giving up my beliefs or my friends. There are many Christian denominations that are entirely welcoming to lesbians and gay men, I'm glad they're there. I suggest that all lesbian and gay members of bigoted denominations leave and join one. If this happened my guess is that there would be amazement at the growth of liberal Christian churches. If only lesbian and gay Roman Catholics left for a religon that wants them and not just their money and labor it would shake the establishment to their core.
===================
I thiink the problem is that the fundies have co-opted the term "Christian" as their own. So anybody, to their way of thinking, who does not believe in their narrow proscribed definition of what a "Christian" is, is not a Christian. I have had fundies scoff at Quakers, for not being real "Christians." Using the fundie definition, I am with Incog. And believe me, today it is the gays that are demonized tomorrow it will be progressives, and after that Democrats. They won't stop and that is why we can't give in.
None of the wingnuts I've ever met could ever explain to me why gay people would "chose" to be gay
Well, it happened when they cancelled Queen for a Day. I figured I'd never own a Maytag washer unless I seduced the Maytag man. He was much younger in those days. In time my taste for high end washing machines diminished and I lost any interest in men in uniform. By that time I was in danger of getting drafted and sent to be cannon fodder. What confirmed it is when I found out about "fagging out" of the draft. I was afraid of heights and couldn't consider the Air National Guard. Besides I'd heard that they attracted a nasty class of rich boy.
And that's how it happened.
Steve Simels,
Yes, I too think it was X that wrote that song.
I've met John Doe at his shows several times. He's a really nice guy.
Exene on the other hand...not so much.
Regardless, it doesn't matter if it's a choice anyway. And fuck those who believe gays are bad and should be mistreated.
Ô¿Ô | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 5:12 pm | #
Not to blogwhore again - but I'm doing it anyway - I pretty much said the same thing there. That goofy-ass shit Margaret Spellings is pulling with "Postcards From Buster" nonsense is telling, because they're apparently afraid of "normal" kids seeing a gay-led house hold as "normal". For whatever reason, these people can't seem to handle the fact that the only place where gay folks are different is when it comes to the midnight hour, as the Wicked One would say. That is it. End of story.
And, you're right, even if it is a choice, what right does anyone has to say what two consenting adults do in a bedroom? None at all. We're just now shaking off all the anti-blow job laws and other goofy-ass sex laws of the previous century. If the wingnuts really meant what they said, they'd try to outlaw fuckin' standing up, since the Bible never said that was okay (it was always "So-and-so lay with so-and-so and someone saw it and his kids carried the curse" or some such balderdash).
If you receive an email titled: "It Takes Guts to Say Jesus" DO NOT OPEN IT.
ha ha Looks like somebody is sick of the fundies, too.
Cleveland Bob:
And he's a pretty good actor.
Don't Mormons believe the universe is the result of God having a wet dream? And that all MEN, at least all Mormon men will become gods?
======================
I didn't hang it on them. They consider themselves Christians. Read Under the Banner of Heaven.
I miss Tena.
That picture of the bodybuilder in the ad makes me sick
Shaved body. Yech. No one looks like that without chemical enhancement.
No one can look at that without chemical enhancement.
agave: Usually these are bogus.
Just opening an email can't do anything.
Unless you're using MS Outlook Express, that is. Some PC users really are like the "yeti" people in the AOL commercials...
.
On SNL didn't a car usually run over or a hammer squish mr. bill after only a few minutes of bill-esque kevetching?
here's some interesting news via DU:
13 minutes ago U.S. National - AP
By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - Harold Ickes, a leading Democratic activist and former aide to President Clinton (news - web sites), said Friday he is backing Howard Dean (news - web sites) to be chairman of the Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) — giving a powerful boost to the front-runner.
"I think all the candidates who are running have strong attributes, but Dean has more of the attributes than the others," said Ickes, who considered running for chairman himself before dropping out in early January. "Many people say Howard Dean is a northeastern liberal, he is progressive, but his tenure as governor of Vermont was that of a real moderate."
Ickes, who heads the political action committee of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (news - web sites), D-N.Y., said the endorsement was his alone and "does not reflect Sen. Clinton's opinion."
While Ickes would not comment on the Clintons' preferences, he is a close ally and would not be endorsing Dean against their strong objections. No one was immediately available in Sen. Clinton's office to comment.
I thiink the problem is that the fundies have co-opted the term "Christian" as their own.QuiltLady in NY
That is the problem, along with the desision of our "news" media to only use the word Christian to refer to neo-fascists. Absolutely no genuine Christians get called Christian in our media.
The fundies are "christians", liberal follwers of Jesus are Christians.
I miss Tena.
ditto. when does she come home?
arold Ickes, a leading Democratic activist and former aide to President Clinton (news - web sites), said Friday he is backing Howard Dean
Could mean that Dean has it sewn up. Harold Ickes is pretty smart and knows how to count. If so, hurray!
I miss Tena.
ditto. when does she come home?
Monday, I think.
No one can look at that without chemical enhancement.
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 5:20 pm | #
Doesn't help, trust me. And I think I've fill my quota with that one.
I didn't hang it on them. They consider themselves Christians. Read Under the Banner of Heaven.
I miss Tena.
QuiltLady in NY
That was a joke, I have respect for your posts. Where is Tena? Maybe she's changed her name to foil the Womanhater.
Using the fundie definition, I am with Incog. And believe me, today it is the gays that are demonized tomorrow it will be progressives, and after that Democrats. They won't stop and that is why we can't give in.
QuiltLady in NY
And first the came for the....
They're following the fascist Nazi model perfectly so far.
mr.bill, saying the same things over and over, expecting a different response... btw, steve loves your manly thighs.
.
Part of me wishes I understood religion. The other part is glad it does not.
Sarah Deere
I wish religion understood me. Religion isn't really about understanding, though, . It's Deus ex every-damn-thing, and fuck you if you want an explanation more complex than "It's a Mystery, my son". Reason? Isn't that a code word for Satan? Or maybe it's the other way around...
the wapo has an amazing story by a style reporter who was followed around by a minder at the inaugural event he attended.
link
Don't Mind Me. I'm Just Doing My Job
By Paul Farhi
Sunday, January 30, 2005; Page B02
Reporters who cover the White House are accustomed to being spun by administration officials. The modern presidential toolbox includes carefully rationed press conferences, say-nothing spokesmen, dead-of-night releases of unfavorable news, and phony "town hall" meetings composed solely of sycophantic supporters. ...
The Bush team has expanded the use of "minders," employees or volunteers who escort journalists from interview to interview within a venue or at a newsworthy event.
...
After cruising by the media pen -- a sectioned-off area apparently designed for corralling journalists -- a sharp-eyed volunteer spotted my media badge. "You're not supposed to go out there without an escort," she said.
I replied that I had been doing just fine without one, and walked over to a quiet corner of the hall to phone in some anecdotes to The Post's Style desk.
As I was dictating from my notes, something flashed across my face and neatly snatched my cell phone from of my hand. I looked up to confront a middle-aged woman, her face afire with rage. "You ignored the rules, and I'm throwing you out!" she barked, snapping my phone shut. "You told that girl you didn't need an escort. That's a lie! You're out of here!"
With the First Amendment on the line, my natural wit did not fail me. "Huh?" I answered.
Recovering quickly, I explained that I had been unaware of the escort policy. She was unbending and ordered a couple of security guards to hustle me out. I appealed to them, saying that I was more than happy to follow whatever ground rules had been laid down. They shrugged, and deposited me back in the media pen.
There I was assigned a pair of attractive young women, who, for the next hour or so, took turns following close at my heels.
One of the problems, I think, is that "regular" and liberal Xians are not being heard in TCM. I really believe there are a lot of people who have no objection to gays. I am really tired of wingnuts and fundies having the voice they do. I get so pissed at those who get "offended" by gay sex. Well, not their bidness. What I do in my "bedroom" is not their bidness, either. It has absolutely no bearing on the kind of person one is. There are ugly heteros as well as ugly gays, just as there are lovely, wonderful folks of either persuasion.
We have let them make it an issue instead of saying, what, are you kidding???? That's ridiculous.
Frame, frame, frame.
There I was assigned a pair of attractive young women, who, for the next hour or so, took turns following close at my heels.
Hmm.
monica_nyc: Hmm.
And, as someone else noted, they were both named Donna Moss.
.
I agree, Sarah - maybe the frame from now on needs to be, "Why are you always talking about sex, you pervert?"
I'm not gay, I just can't stand the fundies and I believe in a free and open America.
EPT - I didn't take it the wrong way. Tena is far more informed about the Mormons than I am. She mentioned that she was going to be away for the week.
Doozer --
I heart Dolly Parton.
And no, I wasn't trying to say that Mormons are necessarily representative of Christianity, but the Mormons are, at the root of it, fundamentalists who ally themselves politically with the likes of Dobson and believe collectively that our culture should be sterilized for our own damn good.
This woman also orders those horrible "clean" movies where all the naughty bits are taken out. They have no qualms about destroying art of any kind to fit their narrow world view.
GWPDA, if you're still here, I, too, find the President's assault on the concept of civil service very disturbing, and I'm appalled that the people who are going to be most directly affected by it think that it's a good idea to remove the protections that generations of reformers fought for.
I mentioned this on an earlier thread today; there's a reason we have civil servants who are not dependent on political vicissitudes in order to keep their jobs. It's clear that the people in charge right now either know nothing about history or know and don't give a shit.
God created Satan, god created Man, god decided that all mankind after Adam and Eve
Actually, it was Madam and Steve.
Ripley, currently there is no such thing as a "free and open America." Also, technically, we are the United States of America. As I have been gently reminded by Canadians, Mexicans, Central and South Americans, this is a big continent of which we are only a part. I realize it is awkward (but so are we, are we not???), but I have been referring to myself as a United Statesian lately....
I think we have been cowed by the loudest voices, and, because there is no countering, many believe themselves to be in the minority. Whereas, I honestly believe we are the new, the real, "Silent Majority."
Most people do not sit around thinking about the sex lives of other people. They really don't even want to.
npr just did a decent piece on senator boxer. she grew up in brooklyn, apparently. that explains a lot. I mean that in the best possible way.
Ô¿Ô: Actually, it was Madam and Steve.
I thought it was Madam and Waylon.
.
Man arrested for anti-Bush sign
From dkos
Nora, co-optation over a longish period of time produces this result. That longtime civil servants would so happily cave into the idea that what they do is somehow valueless is scary. Scary for the Republic anyway. But then, I still pick up commentary that is happy with the idea of outsourcing because it will make the system work better.
Welcome to the machine, folks.
(This storm's moved on to Flagstaff, just whimpering out now.)
The problem is that a religious Rite (marriage) has been used to bestow legal Rights (marriage license).
The argument should be everyone deserves equal treatment, under the law.
The struggle for gay marriage has been framed as forcing ALL churches to bestow their marriage Rites to any gay couple seeking the legal Rights marriage has come to afford. And nothing would be further from the truth. That's why they use it. Their (wingnuts) framing is always the furthest from the truth. Framing it as equal rights fits perfectly because it is true. And they hate those "liberal" facts!
Where is Sluggo when you need him Mr. Hands?
chicago dyke:
Go here, subtract 25 years from a few of these pix and you'd have my college graduation picture. And i am not even Hispanic.
BTW, for anyone in Chicago, i saw a play last night, "The Conversation," that i can recommend highly. It IS based on the Coppola film and is more apropos today than it was back in the Nizon era.
Ripley, Bursey's conviction sends chills up my spine. These miserable, conscienceless, hideous miscreants!!!!! This wretched little pissant who calls himself president. God-fucking damn.
And, yes, that's how I REALLY feel.
Fuck them all. We're toast if a court of law would actually side against Bursey.
No dissent allowed. It "threatens" the preznit. Yeah, well, apparently rational thought threatens this sonofabitch.
Jesus God.
thanks, cory. i remember him now.
I'm not gay, I just can't stand the fundies and I believe in a free and open America.
Ripley
I was lurking at a fundie blog last night. They were going on about SpongeBob and how they needed to do away with that and have "cleaner" and more "wholesome" entertainment. Then she went on to suggest "something like the Barney-cam from President Bush." Then she gushed, "That is so adorable."
I kid you not.
Actually, although I'm gay, I didn't know anything about SpongeBob Squarepants. But I've been watching it now and I'm hooked. It's hilarious. The characters do have a slight lisp.
Sarah Deere, Exactly. Except about times ten.
It happened in 2002 but the sentencing just occurred.... it can't be any better now that Bush is in a 2nd term.
A seldom seen photo from the Rice confirmation hearings. Here is a picture of Condi's response to Joe Biden's questions. Apparently edited from the official transcript, when Biden was finished someone asked Condi what she thought of "Little Joe's" manhood.
One of the problems, I think, is that "regular" and liberal Xians are not being heard in TCM.
For a very simple reason: they have no place in the marketplace.
Dobson (not a pastor) is big business. Same with Robertson, same with Falwell.
Name one "liberal Xian" pastor who has a radio show, a TV show, or who sells lots and lots of books.
Money talks. As Randy Newman said: "It's money that matters in the U.S.A."
Arg, try this.
A seldom seen photo from the Rice confirmation hearings.
Sentenza,
I thought Rice was making a variant of the shocker gesture in explaining how she pleasured Laura Bush.
everyone knows there's best blog stuff voting going on at wampum for the koufax, right? go vote for attaturk and some of our other friends.
Ô¿Ô - the funniest commentary I've read about SB was noting that his creator was trained originally as an oceanographer - and then proceeded to detail exactly how sponges behave in nature. Um, sponges have really good times!
I cut myself off too soon. It shouldn't be that way, of course. The Guardian of London regularly runs columns by very liberal churchmen in the CofE, and other denominations.
In America, only pastors or others backed by big $$ get a place at the media megaphone.
It's money that matters, and precious little else.
Time to go underground, y'all....
I'm going to cry. The link on my blog works fine for it. Sorry, I do wish I could edit here, not that can tell what the hell is wrong with it anyways. Please do look though, perhaps a chuckle for some to make the ugliness disappear if even briefly.
Wonder how petty all these arguements will seem in a decade?
In this new world, a mere 15 years away, the United States will remain "an important shaper of the international order"—probably the single most powerful country—but its "relative power position" will have "eroded." The new "arriviste powers"—not only China and India, but also Brazil, Indonesia, and perhaps others—will accelerate this erosion by pursuing "strategies designed to exclude or isolate the United States" in order to "force or cajole" us into playing by their rules.
America's current foreign policy is encouraging this trend, the NIC concluded. "U.S. preoccupation with the war on terrorism is largely irrelevant to the security concerns of most Asians," the report states. The authors don't dismiss the importance of the terror war—far from it. But they do write that a "key question" for the future of America's power and influence is whether U.S. policy-makers "can offer Asian states an appealing vision of regional security and order that will rival and perhaps exceed that offered by China." If not, "U.S. disengagement from what matters to U.S. Asian allies would increase the likelihood that they will climb on Beijing's bandwagon and allow China to create its own regional security that excludes the United States."
To the extent that these new powers seek others to emulate, they may look to the European Union, not the United States, as "a model of global and regional governance."
This shift to a multipolar world "will not be painless," the report goes on, "and will hit the middle classes of the developed world in particular" with further outsourcing of jobs and outflow of capital investment. In short, the NIC's forecast involves not merely a recalibration in the balance of world power, but also—as these things do—a loss of wealth, income, and, in every sense of the word, security.
The trends should already be apparent to anyone who reads a newspaper. Not a day goes by without another story about how we're mortgaging our future to the central banks of China and Japan. The U.S. budget deficit, approaching a half-trillion dollars, is financed by their purchase of Treasury notes. The U.S. trade deficit—much of it amassed by the purchase of Chinese-made goods—now exceeds $3 trillion. Meanwhile, China is displacing the United States all across Asia—in trade, investment, education, culture, and tourism. It's also cutting into the trade markets of Latin America. (China is now Chile's No. 1 export market and Brazil's No. 2 trade partner.) Asian engineering students who might once have gone to MIT or Cal Tech are now going to universities in Beijing.
Meanwhile, as the European Union becomes a coherent entity, the dollar's value against the euro has fallen by one-third in the past two years (one-eighth just since September). As the dollar's rate of return declines, currency inv
The Conservative Voice is just too much to believe. Good lord...
McDonalds Promotion: Have "Sex" with a Double-Cheeseburger
See what I mean about the sex obssession?
thanks for a fun afternoon, everyone! i'm off to dinner and dancing, i hope to see some of you there (it is sat night, after all).
Ripley, yes, I know it happened a while back. I honestly thought it was a no-brainer and that Bursey would be exonerated.
Shows how out of touch I am.
These people - and by that I mean the Party That Controls the Puppet-Strings of GWB - have been working on this stuff for YEARS. That's why they never sleep, it's why each day brings a fresh new horror to our doorstep that they have hatched during the drak hours.
The one thing that must be admitted is that they have their shit together. It's pure shit, but it's monstrously effective.
Some days I wonder what, short of revoilution, is going to be able to take the power away from them.
I try to remain hopeful, to be optimistic. But, honestly, other than here and some other blogs and emails with like-minded friends, I just see no comprehension at all of what is happening.
I don't understand how people can be so blind, but it seems to me that they just don't want to know. I have no idea how to break through that. I hate the fact that it all may have to come to some terrifying crescendo of catastrophes before people are slapped awake from their mindless dreams.
And, of course, it will take all of us down at the same time. Except for the neocons, who, no doubt, already have Swiss bank accounts and a ready escape route.
Wildly OT - though it is an open thread
Has anyone seen the 3rd Harry potter movie? Is it worth renting?
Azkaban is worth seeing at least once.
Thanks
I liked the first HP the best!
Name one "liberal Xian" pastor who has a radio show, a TV show, or who sells lots and lots of books.
Father Greeley?
Don't know about Spongepants Bob, didn't myself till he was outed. I'm told the cartoon is kind of brain dead, but then so were most of the theater PEOPLE I used to know.
This is a good intro and rather sweet.
http://www.ucc.org/news/r012505.htm
Hey, guess what!
I was at McDonald's with a friend--one of the few places you can take children and let them run in the winter--and the older son of my friend came in and tossed a Chick Tract on the table. "Where did you get that?" I asked. "This little kid gave it to me. His mom's got a whole pile of them on the table. He's giving them to everyone." This one, called Titanic, happened to not contain any anti-Catholic or anti-Muslim propaganda (the plot was about hubris and the smiting of God). But still.
I went to the manager, a large pimply fellow, and explained that someone was handing out propaganda in his store. I pointed her out, and he said he'd deal with it. Not only did he not deal with it, he mocked me to his employees after I left the counter.
Wow.
Chamber Of Secrets is my favorite HP movie to date.
BTW,
QuiltLady, I like the third Harry Potter best so far.
monica_nyc,
That's true about Greeley, but his politics often come in through the back door--he's most famous as a novelist.
I wonder if there are any US Senators who would hit a cheeseburger. There seems to be at least one who would hit a dog, so like how bad is a cheeseburger.
And no, McDonalds and their ad agency cannot not know what it means. But they sell burgers and know that those who know what it means will buy more burgers and those who would bother objecting wont know what it means.
QuiltLady, I like the third Harry Potter best so far.
NYMary
Absolutely. Have you read Inkheart by Cornelia Funke? It's quite good too. I'd love to find a cheap copy in the original German, Tintenherz.
to you, Blak
I like SpongeBob. Sue me. I like mild, kind expressions of happiness and jollity. So does Arthur - we've had enough of shouting, both of us.
I prefer Rocko's Modern Life to Spongebob.
her eyes- Wowsers, a whopping 32F today! I can almost feel my brain thawing out.
I like SpongeBob.
I can say I like SpongeBob Goes to Church (see address above). I like Buster because it showed positive image video footage of children who live in a trailer park.
Is liking SpongeBob grounds for a law suit? Maybe Olympia and Jock can make honest people of each other and use it for grounds for divorce.
I think my favorite was Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. It was only on for a short time really early on Sat mornings, and mostly it was total nonsense, but the humor in it was really dry.
James Dobson sure gives America something to be proud of, doesn't he? A national uproar over the sexual anchoring qualities of a cartoon talking sponge. Those snooty French have nothing on our highbrow ability to deconstruct art.
Okay, off for dinner.
Have fun, unless you're a troll!
SpongeBob is Nickelodeon, isn't it?
BlakNo1-yeah I went out and spent the day outside -- felt like spring.
i always thought a sponge was asexual.
NYMary, I have never seen a liberal politician capture the ethical issues of political policies as Greeley has. More people should be talking like him if for no other reason than to diffuse the right wing lock on "moral issues". Check out this Greeley column, it is as good as it gets in my opinion.
My blog entry linking to Greeleys column
i always thought a sponge was asexual.
As did I. I must be missing some thing.
"Mucha Lucha" is insane, try it! Flash, from what I'm told.
SpongeBob is Nickelodeon, isn't it?
BlakNo1
Yeah, and it comes on intermittently with reruns.
i always thought a sponge was asexual.
I always thought Jesus was pretty asexual. I don't recall the gospels referring to him having make-up sex or anything like that.
her eyes - you can't say that a sponge is asexual cos that would make it one of them scientific thingamajigs we don't believe in dammit!
mr jeffers has put a topic into play that deserves some mention....
over the last 4 years, a monstrous, hate-filled advertising campaign was waged against a dem and female judge on the ohio supreme court.
judge resnick won, but the excess of the advertising campaign waged against her provoked lawsuits[waged i think by the some of the same attys who have waged the fight against kenneth blackwell and the corruption in the recent ohio presidential voting] so as to find out who was financing such a nasty and expensive advertising campaign.
i am not completely knowledgeable of the entirety of the litigation, but apparently, at some stage, the financier of the advertising was discovered to be the ohio chamber of commerce.
apparently, after extensive litigation, the chamber of commerce was compelled to reveal the donors to this slush fund. major industrial corporations, major wingers, major banks, major insurance companies, etc.
you can find the list of these contributors at THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH. i think that ordinarily these contributions would be illegal. but by lumping them into a chamber of commerce honey pot, the donors appear to have attempted to skate around campaign contribution laws.
the story makes me wonder if other state chamber of commerce organizations were doing the same thing, facilitating widespread campaign contribution law violations so as to defeat dems.
somehow, i think this could be a big story. it needs legs. please help it along.
sic semper tyrannis
JesusSchmesus - what's important here is Have you ever seen a man's naked pee-pee???
waiting-- 
you are cracking me up!
As did I. I must be missing some thing.
BlakNo1
The fundies probably consider him ambiguously gay or closeted. He walks around holding other male character's hands, though. I don't think it's about a 'subversive gay agenda' they're concerned about. They know that's pap. Gays aren't trying to push a secret agenda and they know it. What they're concerned about is increasing tolerance and acceptance of gays and what eventual damage it will do to them and the Church that's in decline. Anything that would allows people to be conformable with gays is a threat to their power. Look, they've used their Christianity to beat gays down for a long time and increase their power by scaring people about us. And people are beginning to understand that was very wrong thing to do.
I always thought Jesus was pretty asexual. I don't recall the gospels referring to him having make-up sex or anything like that.
spinoza
Did Jesus have a penis?
Incog,
He was circumcized, so presumably yes.
I'm just ignorant about this stuff, but how do (the very existence of) gays threaten the church(es)?????
i always thought a sponge was asexual.
Except for the "Today"" sponge.
It's pretty much prosexual.
[...] he's little and ugly and follows around pretty women, ha ha, we call him "the troll."
not that you are like that in any way
chicago dyke - 4:11 pm
Well, cd, based on the image of you that I've gleaned from your comments, I would follow you around too.
Dobson, Don Wildmon, etc. have for years been vying for the big-time positions reserved for Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell. Eventually they'll be competing for the same 'markets' at which point Pat will screw them, much like he ruined Jimmy Swaggart & Jimmy Bakker. Don't mess with the Mid-Atlantic mob.
Hooray For Crime!
Cup O' Joe - Blog Of The Working Man!
monica_nyc | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 4:14 pm | #
I know this was from hours, and hours ago, but that quote is from Einstein.
Sorry, just catching up to the day's blogging now.
NYMary -
What's a Chick Tract?
Christians give Bush ultimatum to ban gay marriage
By Philip Sherwell in Washington
(Filed: 30/01/2005)
Conservative Christian leaders who played a key role in securing President George W Bush's re-election have given the White House an ultimatum over outlawing same-sex marriages.
Slacker that I am, the prospect of their self-destruction satisfies me, in a biblical sense.
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