I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
liddy!!!!!!!
No bronzed balls, bebe? No hooved lovers?
Quality control ain't what it used to be. Harumph.
Silly Atrios. It's not what was said, it's what was unsaid!
This equivalency thing is getting out of hand. Must be time for a glass of wine.
I think he implied that we'd be better off if John Kerry were elected president.
like rude pundit says, teddy has big ones and most of the rest are walking around with neuticles or no 'ticles at all.
Instahack draws a parallel because Kennedy isn't sufficiently "serious" enough on the war. Basically, if you have a brain, and use it, Instahack thinks you are not "serious" enough.
Yeah, I kinda missed the part in the speech where Kennedy says Byrd should've stayed in the Klan, for example...
.
You and Kos are two major reasons the Democrats are in the place they are right now.
How about turning off all the hate, all the sarcasm, all the BS, and actually listen to what he has to say.
I was at the inauguration protest in SF, and there were people openly supporting the intifida against Isreal, openly supporting the terrorists in Iraq, and openly supporting even North Vietnam after all these years.
Listening to Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, et all is just a reflection of how far off the rails this party has become. I have volunteered my time and money for almost 10 years with education and youth athletics. I have been involved in the environment and mildly in policics.
Honestly take a look in the mirror. I voted for Clinton twice, but this is not the same party anymore. I am not going to cheer Kos on when he says "screw them" to the deaths of Americans in Iraq. I am not going to listen to Barbara Boxer call out a Bay Area resident as being a liar, only to lie twice about the war resolution and the numbers of Californians who died in Iraq. I am not going to listen to Ted Kennedy say the war is lost, when the biggest day in Iraqi history is tomorrow. A day when they will finally get to vote after 30 years of a muderous dictatorship whose horros have been all but forgotten by the left and the media.
Wake up.
Slightly off topic
Hmmm. Feith resigning. W backing away from the hate amendment and overturning Roe. Now this. There is turmoil in the house of Bush. I wonder, does he lose sleep over these kinds of things. Nah. Probably not. He doesn't need these asswipes anymore, and so is just throwing them overboard like the trash they are.
I am not going to cheer Kos on when he says "screw them" to the deaths of Americans in Iraq
hey asshole, Kos apologized and retracted that impolitic remark so you don't have to cheer him on it.
sheez.
not to mention that they were mercenaries.
Off to dinner. Night all.
I don't think Sen. Boxer actually called Condi a liar, I think Sen. Dayton did. Sen. Boxer did quote some of Condi's contradictory statements and you can't be blamed from getting the distinct impression that Condi is a liar. But that's not Senator Boxer's fault. If thre is a problem with Condi's integrity, that's Condi's fault.
NO Trolls
when he says "screw them" to the deaths of Americans in Iraq
Since Kos never said that, you have nothing to worry about.
How about turning off all the hate, all the sarcasm, all the BS, and actually listen to what he has to say.
For us slow learners, please tell us where the hate and BS was in this post. I can see the sarcasm part for myself, but that doesn't negate the point. Oh, and what exactly does Reynolds have to say that's so damned worth listening to?
You know, I read Kos's statment on Mercenaries the day he wrote it. I was not offended. Every person has to perceive the world through their own eyes. In Kos's case, his memories of the mercs in his country was such that he learned to hate them. He was not condemning them without a background to do so. He did apologize, but I did not see the need. In truth, the presence of these "soldiers" is offensive.
hey An0nymous
I hear joe lieberman is hiring for his campaign -adios amigo
Screw you anonymous coward. You're ignorant & seem determined to stay that way. Please leave & don't come back.
Here's a bit of wisdom from Thersites' blog:
UPDATE: In Eschaton comments, the Kenosha Kid reminds me that one noxious subspecies of The Concerned Troll is The Used to Be a Democrat But You People Make Me Sick Troll.
This malignant variant usually just posts once or twice, aiming to bruise in a passive-aggressive "drive-by" fashion. The essential logic is the same, but the differing tactics warrant attention.
Hee hee. I'm blowing my own horn here. But doesn't it remind you of someone on this thread?
Kenosha Kid, One blows one's own horn cause they know the tune the best. (Hint: buy my book. 
)
Blah Blah Blah hate yadda yadda yadda bad democrats yaketty yaketty Iraqis biggest day evah wank wank wank etc etc ad nauseum.
Every day they trot out the same tired shit.
Anyone else get the impression that Instahack is more interested in winning the war against leftism than the war in Iraq?
The man's intellectual dishonesty is appalling.
Why would the Republicans care about what Ted Kennedy says? I've read them say a thousand times how irrelevant Kennedy is and how Massachusetts liberal he is and on and on. What more do they want? They have the power and yet they whine.
Reynolds is like a crack dealer who smokes his own shit.
There some equivilancy for ya'.
Listening to Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, et all is just a reflection of how far off the rails this party has become.
Pinhead, when the right starts repudiating Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter, give me a call.
Speaking of Massachusetts Senators...
Has anyone seen Swift Boat co-author Jerome "the Pope is a pedophile" Corsi's declaration that he is moving to MA to run against John Kerry in '08?
ahhahahhaaa They really are smoking their own shit....
They have the power and yet they whine.
I blogged about this around Xmas:
In every regard, we’re hopelessly in the majority. Ethnically, religiously, physically, economically, politically, educationally, sexually, and gender-wise… we’re in the solid majority. For crying out loud, we’re not even in the ‘Moral Majority’ minority. In fact, we’re as majority as you can get! And there’s darn few of us left!!
If Massachusetts "isn't really part of America anyway", why care what we do or say at all?
I was a Democrat, have worked for years on campaigns, donated my time and money, but the party has left me, yada, yada, yada...
Do I have it about right?
Looks like an astroturf comment to me.
Echidne ... In a moment he'll tell you that he cares because it's impossible to get away from Teddy Kennedy, because the liberal media gives him so much play and that he (An0nymous) is a long-suffering VICTIM of the vicious, liberal media ELITE. Or at least that's what Chimpy, Grover Norquist, Sean Hannity, and Instacracker told him to say.
An0nymous
You are a fool, but to help you understand that which is mysterious, you are directed to the following piece of history, in this case the history of (South) Vietnam.
At the beginning of November, 1963, President Ngo Dinh Diem of South Vietnam was overthrown by a military coup. After the generals had promised Diem that he would be allowed to leave the country they changed their mind and killed him.
Nguyen Van Thieu was appointed chairman of a 10-member military directorate, largely pibked by the US. He also became Minister of Defence and in 1967 was elected as President of South Vietnam. Vietnam's came later, and the US lost that war, in spite of this election, which was deeply flawed. Thieu was a puppet but ineffective. An election of the sort that brought Thieu to power is a sham. And so it is in Iraq.
Asshole, understand that from the beginning, people on this site, and througout most of the Democratic party, have opposed this current war because we predicted exactly the outcome that we now see.
Bush and his minions are entirely responsible for everything that has occurred. They have had complete control of our government, they planned and executed this fiasco.
Whatever blood that is shed over this is on their hands, and on your, since you support these insane fools.
It is not the fault of Kennedy, or Boxer or anyone on the Left. Of course, you will blame our loss on dissenting voices ogf the Left, the 5th column. That happened in Vietnam too. But it is Bush's war, and yours too. Not ours.
Fuck off and die.
Actually An0nymous I’d like to know what bothers you and have a chance to respond. I don’t think it’s all that constructive to throw out such a large laundry list of grievances so how about narrowing it down to this:
Listening to Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, et all is just a reflection of how far off the rails this party has become.
Could you be more specific?
turn the corner--fall of Baghdad
turn the corner--capture saddam
turn the corner--Iraqi sovereignty
turn the corne--elections
turn the corner and we are back where we started.
this is the another blind corner and there is no light in the tunnel.
we can hope this comes out right, but hoping this is the reality based community.
The Repiglicans rebuked Lott because they're trying to pretend they're not racists. We have no reason to rebuke liberals who speak out against the war-- we're not trying to pretend we're obedient to the "president". We don't want to be kiss asses like the Repigs.
Has anyone seen Swift Boat co-author Jerome "the Pope is a pedophile" Corsi's declaration that he is moving to MA to run against John Kerry in '08?
He can go ahead and waste his money if he likes.
I meant to type that Vietnam's worst years came later, after the election that brought them Thieu.
An0nymous is a joke and his manner convicts him as an "openly" fake doubting lefty...
Oooh, I'm a freedom-loving Dem teetering in my beliefs 'cause democracy's fire (or is that a car bomb) is burning brightly in Eye-rack and your reasoning is so fair and balanced? Hoo-eee, wanna buy a bridge, son? Or, better yet, an 8-track of Jeff Gannon singing covers of Bush greatest fits?
Listening to Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, et all
et all? tee hee.
Look you stupid moron, this is America. If you're unfamiliar with its founding, go read a history book.
People ARE ALLOWED TO DISAGREE HERE.
You Bushies are so ignorant.
Just as soon we bring Uday and Kusay to justice, those "dead-enders" will give up and admit we were right all along.
If you are still here "An0nymous," you must've missed Atrios' request. I'm going to put in bold italics since you apparently missed the last time:
Perhaps some of you trolls can point to the parts of Kennedy's speech that fit the bill. I couldn't find them...
Since you fit the classification of a troll (by Kenosha Kid standards), please answer the request. If you cannot or will not, please shut the fuck up and go suck on an artificial tit.
Thank you.
but hoping ' dont make it so;' this is the reality based community.
sorry for the dropped words.
Anonymouse:
What on earth gives you the impression that anyone who hangs out here gives two shits about your opinion of us?
Re-register as a rethug - our party will be better for your departure.
I was a Democrat, have worked for years on campaigns, donated my time and money, but the party has left me, yada, yada, yada...
Do I have it about right?
No, sorry, you forgot one part. It should go something like this:
I was a Democrat, have worked for years on campaigns, donated my time and money, but I was struck on the head by a meteor and have been an unthinking asshole ever since...
Corsi in Massachusetts? So close to me and my snakes! Now that would be fun.
If they had anything to say about Michael Moore, they would sue him (or perhaps they would say what it is that is so incredible). So instead they do this bullshit gossip attack. Prissy little girls they are. We hear that Michael Moore has a spider's egg sac growing in his hair and at the prom the baby spiders will all hatch and that'll show the leftists.
Ba'al? Didn't your momma tell you not to play with kids like him? Trying to point out historical precedent or tell him that anyone with half a brain saw bad things coming from our actions in Iraq, is probably a waste of time; no matter how sanguine the comments. Better to sacrifice the good perfessor on a high place at night, with very little wind. . . .
Support the troops, give 'em radio!!
Sen. Kennedy is right. the war is lost. lets pack up whats left of our shit and bring our troops home.
Have ya'll noticed how almost every troll now throws out Michael Moore's name like he is Clinton or something.
I don't really follow Moore much, or care for the movie F911 (was redundant with everything I already knew).
I have to give kudos to Moore, he's really jerking these guys strings based on the constant vitrol directed at him. Maybe he is on to something I have not picked up on yet.
Corsi link
Jerome will soon find out that anti Catholic bigots and revisonist liars get tossed in the Bay.
My only hope is that the state GOP is stupid enough to get behind him.
What on earth gives you the impression that anyone who hangs out here gives two shits about your opinion of us?
Gosh flory I just said I care about it and that it's worth discussing. So speak for yourself please.
"You and Kos are two major reasons the Democrats are in the place they are right now. "
Hurrah!
These guys are just such high canary-esque indicators of the fear level on the right.
All,
Arguing with Trolls is pointless. In any worthy argument, it is required that both sides have issues to present that are reasoned and well-stated. These people are just repeating talking points given to them by those whose allegience they adhere to. (Damned Prepostions always pop up at the end of sentences.)
Better to simply read their words and dismiss them as so much effluent. Or,do as I do: read the first line; if it is a troll simply move on. (See, it happened again. Damn!)
Let's see...daring to say that the war in Iraq was a mistake is now equivalent to supporting segregation?
This is why they shouldn't teach formal logic anymore. People are prone to forgetting that perfectly sensible truths can be used to form logical fallacies that are absolute bullsh*t. Human beings get married. I am a human. Ellen DeGeneres is a human. Therefore, I am married to Ellen DeGeneres! See how easy it is to f*ck with the English language?
Blak--would I be correct in the assumption that you have a penchant for music?
Please refer to IP by one of his approved names:
instashmuck
the wingnutty professor
eraserhead
tennessee tuxedo
alfalfa
Anonymouse:
Gosh flory I just said I care...
antiphone, are you anonymouse?
I was a Democrat, have worked for years on campaigns, donated my time and money, but the party has left me, yada, yada, yada...
Do I have it about right?
Looks like an astroturf comment to me.
chris/tx | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 6:36 pm | #
A-yep.
And of course, Idiot Boy didn't bother to respond to Atrios' actual post -- he instead posted a rambling bunch of non sequiturs which he then refused to come back and explain, much less defend.
See, the wingnuts know damned well that Atrios is right -- that there was no good reason for Instahack to say what he did. So they do what they ALWAYS do when their side is caught out: They try to change the subject -- usually through a cheap-ass trolling distraction, as we have just witnessed.
The point is not to rail at the coward "An0nymous". The point is to confront him, over and over again, with the question:
So what, EXACTLY, is it about Kennedy's speech that makes you agree with Instahack?
People are prone to forgetting that perfectly sensible truths can be used to form logical fallacies that are absolute bullsh*t. Human beings get married. I am a human. Ellen DeGeneres is a human. Therefore, I am married to Ellen DeGeneres! See how easy it is to f*ck with the English language?
Fallacy of instantiation? Or ambiguity? Whatever.
I was recently taken to task by a winger for posting 2 of my favorite mock syllogisms:
Fire is hot.
I am hot.
Therefore I'm on fire.
Nothing is better than sex.
A ham sandwich is better than nothing.
Therefore a ham sandwich is better than nothing.
Some people can't take a joke.
Bobo, You wouldn't believe the load of shit I got earlier for defending a rhetorical parallel of WGG's.
DWD, does your published work have all that softcore in it?
tennessee tuxedo
To quote chicago dyke: mmmmmm...cartoon sodomy
alfalfa?
monica_nyc, I haven't cooked the gnocchi yet. The mixture is chilling.
"I have volunteered my time and money for almost 10 years with education and youth athletics. I have been involved in the environment and mildly in policics."
Good for you, anonymous! So you played dodgeball and reycle your soda bottles - like we're supposed to give a fuck. You wingnuts are so fucking predictable; it's the same old shit, day in and day out: Ted Kennedy this and Michael Moore that. Fucking stop it, already! At least come up with some new goddamn talking points, please! By the way, Einstein, the people who are fighting against our troops are not terrorists, they're defending their homeland against an invading army -ours. And, in case you haven't received the blast fax from wingnut central, the US and North Vietnam have been working to normalize relations for a while now, courtesy of, among others, your boy John McCain. Do us a favor- beg, borrow, or steal a buck from your mom and buy a goddamn clue, will ya!
As a black person, as an American, and as someone with a brain, I find that so freaking insulting.
I know exactly what he means here. It's how casually dismissive the bigots are about very real injury. Bigots don't consider the recipients of their bigotry fully human so any deference to their emotions shouldn't even be a consideration. They do this unconsciously and that's the purest bigotry. The thing is, they don't even realize their bigotry is showing in examples like this. I see it all the time.
Can you imagine the noise that would erupt from the Republican Noise Machine if Michael Moore and Hilary Clinton (2 people whom I both respect) reproduced? The poor kid would be lynched 6 hours after birth as the spawn of Satan.
her eyes- Yep, I go to concerts whenever possible.
You and Kos are two major reasons the Democrats are in the place they are right now.
No, that would be OBL releasing a tape four days before the election and Ohio putting the gay hate vote on the ballot.
It sounds to me like Reynolds has stopped getting attention from the right, so he's just spewing to get attention from the left. Sad, really sad.
pie, the whole prospect of creating spinach gnocchi is chilling. I thought things like that were made by elves who came in, late at night, drinking all the whiskey and then rolling pasta til morning.
BlakNo1--what was your favorite?
Ntodd:
God is love
Love is blind
Stevie Wonder is blind
Therefore Stevie Wonder is God
Can you imagine the noise that would erupt from the Republican Noise Machine if Michael Moore and Hilary Clinton (2 people whom I both respect) reproduced? The poor kid would be lynched 6 hours after birth as the spawn of Satan.
Deja vu comment.
Nothing is better than sex.
A ham sandwich is better than nothing.
Therefore a ham sandwich is better than nothing.
Don't mock the mock syllogism.
Can you imagine the noise that would erupt from the Republican Noise Machine if Michael Moore and Hilary Clinton (2 people whom I both respect) reproduced?
I thot Hitlery was a lesbo? Didn't I hear that on Rush?
chris/tx,
Moore has his faults, certainly, but he's the only serious commentator in America who talks about class and what it means. For that, he gets a free pass from me for a lot. Many people were uncomfortable with the shift in F9/11, but it makes perfect sense in Moore's world, because this shit really is about sending poor kids to die. That scene with the Marine recruiters trolling for youth outside the mall in the poor district was chilling, perfect.
Anonymous: I've learned that if you don't follow the Party Line here they hut you down with withering witty commnets like "Fuck Off." Whoa, the intellect here, no wonder no ones listening to the Left. Except themselves of course. Now be a good little Nazi and agree with everything they say or it's the re-education camp for you!!!!
STEVIE WONDER IS GOD!
God is love
Love attracts opposites
Hence God prefers Windex.
Love means never having to say you're sorry.
Bush never says he's sorry.
Therefore, Bush is Love.
accckkkkk......
"re-education camp for you!!!!"
Incoming!
antiphone, are you anonymouse?
No pie, you’re paranoid. I think it’s important to have discussions with those I disagree with. I don’t think firing a volley of insults at people and calling them trolls is the best way to counter an argument you disagree with. I think it’s worth taking the time to solicit specific information from people and if it’s wrong to try to correct it.
Therefore a ham sandwich is better than nothing.
Erm...I thought the joke went "Therefore, a ham sandwich is better than sex."
Moore did devote a chapter in one of his books to Hilary as love object, in response to the insane wall of screaming against her (even then: this was like ten, fifteen years ago).
if you don't follow the Party Line here they hut you down with withering witty commnets like "Fuck Off." Whoa, the intellect here, no wonder no ones listening to the Left.
Pure gee-nee-us. Comedy Gold™!
God is love
Love is blind
Stevie Wonder is blind
Therefore Stevie Wonder is God
While that's not technically a categorical syllogism, I still believe you have a valid argument. I will now bow before the altar of Stevie Wonder (sorry, Ba'al).
Alfalfa patented by James Wolcott
That's tough, I can narrow it down to 3 or 4 I guess. Zeppelin, Floyd, Beatles, Sabbath plus various other dinosaur rock. I listen to lots o' stuff, but them's my favorites.
As you noticed the other day, I like Tool as well. If I like something new, it's because I'm reminded of something older most of the time.
I married Bob.
Bob does not know of my dildos.
My dildos are covered with santorum.
Hence Bob married a piece of santorum.
the whole prospect of creating spinach gnocchi is chilling
Well, the whole secret is chilling, I think.
Come on antiphone!!! You're supposed to come here with your position fully formed. They don't have time to waste helping seekers. That takes away from diddling their cats.
Erm...I thought the joke went "Therefore, a ham sandwich is better than sex."
Fuck. You're right. It's not my fault: I've only got turkey in the fridge and my wife's away.
Ba'als favorite quasi-syllogism:
In ancient Ugarit it is written
sm . bny . yw . ilt
which in ancient Canaanite translates to the "The name of the son of god, Yahweh"; In other words Yahweh is the son of
But Christians believe that Jeebus is both the son of Yahweh, and at the same time God.
Therefore, Jeebus is his own grandpa
monica: Thank you!!!
Moore has his faults, certainly, but he's the only serious commentator in America who talks about class and what it means.
Well, the one with the biggest megaphone, anyway. Certainly not the only.
Wow! Read Olbermann's blog today:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/
I especially liked this:
And not to let the facts get in the way of FOF’s prejudice, but I happen to be a religious man. I believe in God, I pray daily, and if I’ve ever gotten any direct instructions from my maker, they were that I’ll be judged by whether I tried to help other people, or hurt them. Also, that true belief should not be worn like a policeman’s club, nor used like one. And, finally, that I’m in big trouble for helping to introduce funny catchphrases into sportscasting.
God is Live
Live is Evil Spelled Backward
Therefore, God is Evil.
Okay, I'm outta here. Later!
spinach gnocchi
That's what Strom used to called my twat when I handed showered in a month or two. He just dove right in.
-Liddy Dole
Wow! you saw Zep? Must've been quite a show...who was the latest band you've seen?
I think it’s important to have discussions...
Ya missed the point.
flory was addressing anonymouse and you, apparently, responded to her.
Why?
Here's a witty comment for ya, suck my balls!!
I think it’s important to have discussions with those I disagree with.
Welcome to Earth, antiphone. We are friends. Friends. Not eat. Once you have been here for a while, you will realize that the point of distinguishing trolls from real commenters is that there is no rightist ideology, they hold no beliefs, they have no morality: they literally are just liars, the unimportant colonels in a third-world junta who think if only they can continue the fantasy they'll be rich. You try to argue with them and you find that they're never sorry, they never admit it when they're wrong, their position shifts instantly to whatever seems expedient, and they flatly refuse to read your responses. They think along Rovian lines, worrying about not what makes sense but what constitutes giving an inch.
They don't have time to waste helping seekers.
Whatcha in the market for? Whatcha seeking here at Mister Smith's gig?
NYMary,
Not really. The two books I have published are THE HAUNTING a kid's horror story and SILENT SCREAMS OF A SURVIVOR. (A holocaust survivor's story.) CHALLENGE is supposed to be out in the summer, but we shall see. CHALLENGE is a lot of fun, but does not include the so-called softcore.
Fuck. You're right. It's not my fault: I've only got turkey in the fridge and my wife's away.
No problemo.
Who wants to start the charity Turkee for NTodd?
Therefore, God is Evil.
Nope. The correct conclusion is "Dog is evil". But don't tell our dog.
monica_nyc,
I'll accept that as a friendly amendment. But that's obviously why they hate him. He threatens to drive a wedge between them and their socially conservative, largely poor, base. Therefore, he must be demonized.
I loved re-education camp. It's when I started smoking pot and having sex with boys.
her eyes- Oh no, communication problems!!
My favorite "concert" was the question, hold up. I'll get back to you about that.
Wait...I got one!
Kiss my hairy red balloon knot!
God is Live
Live is Evil Spelled Backward
Therefore, God is Evil.
watertiger, should the conclusion be dog is evil?
Who wants to start the charity Turkee for NTodd?
Please! I'm gonna need all the turkee I can get pretty soon.
Come on antiphone!!! You're supposed to come here with your position fully formed. They don't have time to waste helping seekers. That takes away from diddling their cats.
sorry
spinoza - rock on!
DWD,
Guess I'll just have to keep reading it here, then.
"The correct conclusion is "Dog is evil". But don't tell our dog."
Am not, either.
Just stopping by for a moment to let you guys know that "Ignore the Trolls Friday" has been held over by popular demand through Sunday.
This has been a public service announcement.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled snarking.
Blak--I was interested in the bands/groups you like too. I got the sense that you were into Goth, so I wondered.
Antiphone:
Gosh flory I just said I care about it and that it's worth discussing. So speak for yourself please.
I wrote my comment before your's posted.
Have you noticed Anonymouse's instantaneous reaction to your request for dialog? There's a reason we call them trolls.
"The correct conclusion is "Dog is evil". But don't tell our dog."
Am not, either.
EVIL!!! Evil, I tell you...
Well, looks like the troll is having another one of those converstions with himself.
Shhhhhh. Just let him talk.
Blak: If you had any I would!!!
Monica: Sorry I tried before under another name and was told that no one was willing to answer. "Figure it out for yourself." Oh, and "Fuck Off." That will work great for the Dems on the campaign trail in 06 and 08.
If Instahack claims there is some kind of parallel between these two speeches, then he's making himself the laughingstock of the internet.
= = =
Lott: "When Strom Thurmond ran for president {as a segregationist}, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years."
= = =
Kennedy: "We must learn from our mistakes. We must recognize what a large and growing number of Iraqis now believe. The war in Iraq has become a war against the American occupation.
We have reached the point that a prolonged American military presence in Iraq is no longer productive for either Iraq or the United States. The U.S. military presence has become part of the problem, not part of the solution.
No matter how many times the Administration denies it, there is no question they misled the nation and led us into a quagmire in Iraq. President Bush rushed to war on the basis of trumped up intelligence and a reckless argument that Iraq was a critical arena in the global war on terror, that somehow it was more important to start a war with Iraq than to finish the war in Afghanistan and capture Osama bin Laden, and that somehow the danger was so urgent that the U.N. weapons inspectors could not be allowed time to complete their search for weapons of mass destruction.
As in Vietnam, truth was the first casualty of this war. Nearly 1400 Americans have died. More than 10,000 have been wounded, and tens of thousands of Iraqi men, women, and children have been killed. The weapons of mass destruction weren’t there, but today 157,000 Americans are.
As a result of our actions in Iraq, our respect and credibility around the world have reached all-time lows. The President bungled the pre-war diplomacy on Iraq and wounded our alliances.
President Bush’s Iraq policy is not, as he said during last fall’s campaign, a “catastrophic success.” It is a catastrophic failure.
As former Coalition Provisional Authority adviser Larry Diamond recently said, “There is a fine line between Churchillian resolve and self-defeating obstinacy.” We must recognize that line and end the obstinate policy of the Administration.
We have the finest military in the world. But we cannot rely primarily on military action to end politically inspired violence. We can’t defeat the insurgents militarily if we don’t effectively address the political context in which the insurgency flourishes. Our military and the insurgents are fighting for the same thing – the hearts and minds of the people – and that is a battle we are not winning.
President Bush has left us with few good choices. There are costs to staying, and costs to leaving. There may well be violence as we disengage militarily from Iraq and Iraq disengages politically from us. But there will be much more serious violence if we continue our present dangerous and reckless course. It will not be easy to extricate ourselves from
Here's a bit of wisdom from Thersites' blog:
UPDATE: In Eschaton comments, the Kenosha Kid reminds me that one noxious subspecies of The Concerned Troll is The Used to Be a Democrat But You People Make Me Sick Troll.
All very true KKid!
Excellent cite of my cite of your post in the comments on my blog, which is about comments on other peoples' blogs, from your post in the comments to a post on this blog!
But that's obviously why they hate him. He threatens to drive a wedge between them and their socially conservative, largely poor, base. Therefore, he must be demonized.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
I want a cigarette.
I want Rachel Weisz.
Therefore, Rachel Weisz is a cigarette.
Well, the show I was most excited to see was, of course, Black Sabbath.
I've seen King Crimson a bunch of times, they were incredible.
antiphone: You're excused.
How about the part where he's a traitor (that would be the entire speech)? The analogy is that both speeches were expressions of utterly unacceptable sentiments that deserve to be shunned utterly. A healthy party would do it.
Kennedy: "...It will not be easy to extricate ourselves from Iraq, but we must begin.
Error is no excuse for its own perpetuation. Mindless determination doesn’t make a better outcome likely."
= = =
(part 2 of 2)
They don't have time to waste helping seekers.
seekers yes- suckers no
you useful idiots are the problem
Troll...mr. bill?
Don't you have a life?
I saw Mahavishnu Orchestra once.
Billy Cobham!
There's a reason we call them trolls.
Yes I know flory. There are many reasons, not the least of which is it’s easy.
Wow! you saw Zep? Must've been quite a show...
Her eyes - When I was about eleven, my friend asked me if I wanted to see Zep. His dad was the entertainment writer for the Houston rag, and he had two fourth row center tickets he was not using. Zep was just coming out with their second album. He dropped us off at the concert by ourselves. People were passing us joints (we passed). It was so loud I could not hear well for days, and my ears were making popping noises at the concert. They played all of the songs from their two albums.
Excellent cite of my cite of your post in the comments on my blog, which is about comments on other peoples' blogs, from your post in the comments to a post on this blog!
My metahead is gonna metaexplode.
I want a cigarette.
I want Rachel Weisz.
Therefore, Rachel Weisz is a cigarette.
I'd like to smoke Rachel Weisz. Sigh.
"EVIL!!! Evil, I tell you..."
AM NOT.
Not either.
Works for both sides Cat. Plenty of useful idiots on the Left.
Excellent cite of my cite of your post in the comments on my blog, which is about comments on other peoples' blogs, from your post in the comments to a post on this blog!
Okay. But what I really want to know is, what does big boy think we should do about trolls?
How about: "It's possible to be certain and be wrong, Mr. President"?
All ye seekers, why not begin here: How is Kennedy's speech akin to Lott's praising of Thurmond?
Please! I'm gonna need all the turkee I can get pretty soon.
Just ask your wife, you know, Ellen DeGeneres. She's pretty rich.
Pie: No, I have no life like most of the people who hang out on this blog!
'Bye now
As far as goth stuff goes, I've seen Bauhaus, Sisters Of Mercy, Type O Negative (of course!),Bowie, Alice Cooper, Manson(not a fan, he was opening for Sabbath).
Is A Perfect Circle considered goth? I've seen them a few times too.
No pie, you’re paranoid. I think it’s important to have discussions with those I disagree with.
That would be good if you were asking for a discussion with someone who was interested in hearing another side. Anon, on the other hand, is a drive by - dropping a comment, then running off snickering, thinking "boy, I sure told them off!"
REDRUM! REDRUM! REDRUM!
"Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance."
Okay, now I'm really outta here. Off to theeee-ay-ter.
Pie:
flory was addressing anonymouse and you, apparently, responded to her.
Why?
Thanks for the help. Methinks its not working, tho.
monica: Uhhh, it wasn't the same.
On the other hand no one named Mary Jo died because of Trent Lott!!!
How about: "It's possible to be certain and be wrong, Mr. President"?
Anyone who has ever spent much time in the company of small children knows that they are frequently certain, resolute, and utterly wrong.
I've tried to point this out to the wingnuttians I know when they say how they like chimpy's "resoluteness" cause it proves he's a "strong leader."
"EVIL!!! Evil, I tell you..."
AM NOT.
Oh, ye dupe of Satan! See ye not the Light of Evil in thy canine's eyes? Turn away from evil lest ye become, uh...something really bad.
The analogy is that both speeches were expressions of utterly unacceptable sentiments
What about Kennedy's speech is utterly unacceptable?
Turn away from evil lest ye become, uh...something really bad.
In your case I'm assuming the evilness you'd absorb from Cairo would be an unending obsession with sticks.
Oh the horrors!!
A Perfect Circle reminds me a lot of Tool.
How do you feel about The Cure?
Of course, Chester Thompson of mid-career Zappa's band was quite a monster.
Just ask your wife, you know, Ellen DeGeneres. She's pretty rich.
Confession: she's not my wife. But my wife's cousin is Sandra Bullock, so maybe I could ask her for turkee.
On the other hand no one named Mary Jo died because of Trent Lott!!!
Oh, THAT'S why Kennedy is a traitor. How logical...
NTodd?
Bite me?
(I have beautiful, caramel colored eyes. You're just mean.)
Okay, off to the gym. You guys play nice.
Yes I know flory. There are many reasons, not the least of which is it’s easy.
Ummm, Antiphone? Have ya got a response from Anon yet?
Actions speak louder than words.
I think I found it, Atrios:
Basic assertion of Kennedy's speech:
We wouldn't have all these problems the rest of Americans voted like the ones in Massachusetts.
Parallelism to Lott - Thurmond - segregation:
Kennedy - McGovern - not stumbling into more dumbfuck wars like Vietnam.
Apparently, segregation and peace are both bad, according to the professor.
How is Kennedy's speech akin to Lott's praising of Thurmond?
Silly Monica.
Haven't you heard that Liberals are Racists, Too?
I know it's true. LGF told me so.
(/snark)
Just ask your wife, you know, Ellen DeGeneres. She's pretty rich.
Confession: she's not my wife. But my wife's cousin is Sandra Bullock, so maybe I could ask her for turkee.
Sure, you're not married to Ellen DeGeneres. Riiiight. Next you're going to tell us that Stevie Wonder isn't a delicious ham sandwich.
That would be good if you were asking for a discussion with someone who was interested in hearing another side. Anon, on the other hand, is a drive by - dropping a comment, then running off snickering, thinking "boy, I sure told them off!"
Yes notadamsrib, sometimes that’s the case but it’s no reason to accuse me of being a troll.
Trent Lott!!!
Yeah, mention of that hater of liberty usually brings out exclamation points in me too!!!!!!!!!!
Alfalfa (which we still do not get) has no argument. Any more than they did for raping Iraq or for privatizing Social Security or for attacking the Clintons. That's the thing: they have nothing to say, but as long as they scream it furiously enough, they think it's an argument. This is why we call them our mental inferiors: these are not two comparable opinions, this is a person accepting reality and another denying it in the hope that they'll win the lottery.
In your case I'm assuming the evilness you'd absorb from Cairo would be an unending obsession with sticks.
That's not evil--i's a healthy hobby. My teeth are very clean, and so are my gums...
An0nymous...Wake up and smell the roses
You said:..."I am not going to listen to Ted Kennedy say the war is lost, when the biggest day in Iraqi history is tomorrow. "
Its all a fabricated farce...how can it be a free election when hardly anyone will be voting because on one side there are, what the Americans call "terrorists" are shooting at Iraqi civilians and on the other side there are the Americans shooting at all arabs because they look and act like "terrorist"?
How can "anyone hold a "fair" and "free" election where the voting public is in "fear" they will die by casting a vote or not voting because they fear the only force out there to protect them would kill them in a instant without a second thought?
All this republican tripe about "free democratic elections in Iraq" is in reality a death sentence for those who chose to participate. Death sentence, in that the American forces don't have an ounce of control outside their control points to their compounds. Once a "government" is installed, it will be attacked by those disenfranchised by the American forces.
The sad fact that the American republicans aren't allowing the people of Iraq to decide for themselves what type of governemnt they want is evident to all but the Americans. Iraq will have to fall into a civil war before it will evolve into a stable country with a stable government. And they will have to do it themselves.
By the way, you also said:..."A day when they will finally get to vote after 30 years of a muderous dictatorship whose horros have been all but forgotten by the left and the media."
Please don't be so stupid...the murders you are disgusted with occured during Reagan's term in office...its nothing new. It occured when Iraq declared war against Iran..the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Thus Iraq was on our side and "we" looked the other way. Not the media, but our President, who just happened to be a Republican.
Also, Musharff in Pakistan overthru the legitimately elected Democratic government. He has set himself up as a pseudo-dictator. And don't forget that the profileration of nuclear materials thru out the under-developed nations in the middle-east was at the hand of the Pakistanis under Musharff.
Only a fool would believe that democracy is florishing in Iraq or the middle-east.
Here's hoping that it blows up in your face. I hear the military medics are doing some amazing work with rebuilding faces...they've had a lot of practice in recent years. Your mother may still be able to recognize a subtle family resemblance.
regards
.
On the other hand no one named Mary Jo died because of Trent Lott!!!
Wrong.
Addie Mae Collins, Denise McNair, Carole Robertson, and Cynthia Wesley.
Oh, Trent didn't plant the bomb. But those of his ilk did.
Sorry it was screw 'em, not scew them. My apologies. Antiphone, I would but I think it would be wasted on this forum.
I have been running over an open letter I would write to the Democratic party, a return to a more moderate tone. I have been against almost every area of Bush policy except foreign policy. And even there I have major problems with how he has conducted his administration.
If you want to know my problem with Ted Kennedy's speech, it goes beyond what he said then, but if you want the problem with that particular speech I will tell you. Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale. He has a right to express himself but he is incapable of any reasonable measure of restraint. His words will be used by the insurgents and the Arab media to cause more damage, not less. If any of you read how Seymor Hersh's charges were distorted [US soldiers filming the rape of Iraqi boys at Abu Gharaib], it took less than a day for them to be posted on flyers and posters outside Abu Gharaib. That later morphed even furthur into women being raped by US soldiers encouraged attacks on the prison to prevent furthur abuse. That is how the Arab media works. I have been following it for about 5 years, and lately the Democratic party is sound more like Al Jazeera or Al Manaar than the party of people.
Whatever point Kennedy was trying to make, he served up a huge propaganda victory for the enemy two days before Iraqi elections. One that will not only hurt the future Iraqi government and Iraqi people, but one that directly endangers American and coalition troops.
There are an inordinate number of factual errors in Thursdays speech, but I will leave those as is. I am not going to get into a factual discussion with Michael Moore supporters.
But that is only the first in a long line of my problems with Kennedy. He is at the fringe left of the party, and having him in a leadership role drives moderate Democrats, independants and centrist Republicans away from the party.
The rest of my thoughts I will keep to myself.
What about Kennedy's speech is utterly unacceptable?
Monica, the facts are in contradiction to Dear Leader, therefore the facts are utterly unacceptable and should be totally shunned.
A Perfect Circle reminds me a lot of Tool.
There's a good reason for that.
I don't like Robert Smith's singing at all. The music isn't bad as such, but his singing kills me.
OT:
Father Ted: A very wise man once said, life is just a brief sliver of light between two great stretches of darkness. Really makes you think, doesn't it?
Father Dougal: Ah it does, yeah Ted, you're right. (Long pause.) About what?
NTodd?
Bite me?
(I have beautiful, caramel colored eyes. You're just mean.)
Is that a dog weenie I see? My eyes! My eyes!
Sure, you're not married to Ellen DeGeneres. Riiiight. Next you're going to tell us that Stevie Wonder isn't a delicious ham sandwich.
Mmm...Stevie Wonder...
"That's not evil--i's a healthy hobby. My teeth are very clean, and so are my gums..."
That's just cause Cairo lets you borrow his special, chicken-flavored toothpaste, just like the kind Arthur has. Sticks? Ha! Real doggies have rawhide chewy things, not nasty old sticks. And maybe a half-steer.
Antiphone:
Yes notadamsrib, sometimes that’s the case but it’s no reason to accuse me of being a troll.
What'd I miss? Who called you a troll?
That was a cold post, Moad-Dib.
I have often thought Stevie Wonder would go well on wheat with just a little mayo & mustard.
Ha! Real doggies have rawhide chewy things, not nasty old sticks. And maybe a half-steer.
Or hoofies!! my canine nephew Joey likes hoofies a lot.
Vietnam.
The rest of my thoughts I will keep to myself.
We didn't want your first "thoughts" either.
Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale.
Oh, for fuck's sake.
The war was lost the minute georgie invaded, you twit.
It's over. You were wrong, but it will never affect you personally.
People like you should probably be charged with criminally negligent homicide.
All those people who died...
FOR WHAT?
God, you're repulsive.
That's just cause Cairo lets you borrow his [sic] special, chicken-flavored toothpaste, just like the kind Arthur has.
We're organic here in Vermont.
Real doggies have rawhide chewy things, not nasty old sticks.
Reminds me of LOTR:
Ssspoiling nice fish! Give it to ussss raw and wwwriggling. You keep nasty chips!
Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale.
I just thought it was funny.
Hey guys, I'm all for a two-party system, so a little advice:
You're Democrats. Be on the side of democracy.
Addie Mae Collins, Denise McNair, Carole Robertson, and Cynthia Wesley.
Outstanding comeback, pie
The rest of my thoughts I will keep to myself.
well that will be different.
but he is incapable of any reasonable measure of restraint.
Sounds like an accurate description of Bush, to me.
I have often thought Stevie Wonder would go well on wheat with just a little mayo & mustard.
BlakNo1
Dehumanized objects usually do.
Twit.
"Or hoofies!! my canine nephew Joey likes hoofies a lot."
We tried those once. Arthur forgot his manners.
Be on the side of democracy.
Define a democracy, please.
Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale.
It ain't an implication. It's an objective fact and truth. We lost. Get over it.
You're Democrats. Be on the side of democracy.
We are. That's why we wanted to have a free and fair election at home and not impose our will on other people.
You're presumably a Republican. Be on the side of the republic.
It ain't an implication. It's an objective fact and truth. We lost. Get over it.
NTodd
ha ha Is it just me or are some of these posts hilarious?
Ssspoiling nice fish! Give it to ussss raw and wwwriggling. You keep nasty chips!
So -that's- what the gas man was screaming about when he left yesterday....
Also, you should keep people like "pie" safely locked away where moderate voters can't see or hear them. Putting them on the Sentae floor does not help your cause.
Every human being deserves liberty and democracy. God bless the Iraqi elections.
before the Iraqi elections
you calling whats gonna happen tomorrow an election?
ha!
Sorry it was screw 'em, not scew them. My apologies. Antiphone, I would but I think it would be wasted on this forum.
I have been running over an open letter I would write to the Democratic party, a return to a more moderate tone. I have been against almost every area of Bush policy except foreign policy. And even there I have major problems with how he has conducted his administration.
If you want to know my problem with Ted Kennedy's speech, it goes beyond what he said then, but if you want the problem with that particular speech I will tell you. Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale. He has a right to express himself but he is incapable of any reasonable measure of restraint. His words will be used by the insurgents and the Arab media to cause more damage, not less. If any of you read how Seymor Hersh's charges were distorted [US soldiers filming the rape of Iraqi boys at Abu Gharaib], it took less than a day for them to be posted on flyers and posters outside Abu Gharaib. That later morphed even furthur into women being raped by US soldiers encouraged attacks on the prison to prevent furthur abuse. That is how the Arab media works. I have been following it for about 5 years, and lately the Democratic party is sound more like Al Jazeera or Al Manaar than the party of people.
Whatever point Kennedy was trying to make, he served up a huge propaganda victory for the enemy two days before Iraqi elections. One that will not only hurt the future Iraqi government and Iraqi people, but one that directly endangers American and coalition troops.
There are an inordinate number of factual errors in Thursdays speech, but I will leave those as is. I am not going to get into a factual discussion with Michael Moore supporters.
But that is only the first in a long line of my problems with Kennedy. He is at the fringe left of the party, and having him in a leadership role drives moderate Democrats, independants and centrist Republicans away from the party.
The rest of my thoughts I will keep to myself.
jr, he was referring to the earlier posts about poorly driven logic. I'm pretty sure there was no-dehumanizing; it was an allusion to a ham sanwich.
i gotta tell ya, i just went by the polling place while dropping teens off at mall. it was kind of cool seeing zillions of signs in Arabic with pictures of Iraq and from what i could tell even a few with candidates pictures on them. course the parking lot was empty with only two giant trucks with mounted satellite stuff on it so maybe the poll closed....
I have often thought Stevie Wonder would go well on wheat with just a little mayo & mustard.
I have often wanted Rachel Weisz and a cigarette on rye with a little mustard.
I think I've seen this An0nymous character before, he thinks we're all morans.
http://daredevil_30.tripod.com/p...hics/
morans.jpg
Hey An0nymous, you should WAKE UP in boot camp at Parris Island. The Marines need fodder for more PNAC nation building. Don't worry, there are only about 30 more countries that need liberating from muderous dictatorships and we only lose about 1400 or so per invasion. Until you sign up, you are a hypocrite.
And don't worry, even if you are unlucky enough to be among the 1400, you'll have the honor of Bush and the GOP exploiting you on national TV in countless election campaigns to come.
I don't like this game.
Why don't we try to link Ted Kennedy to Trent Lott AND Kevin Bacon in less than 6 moves?
Ô¿Ô , yes. They are.
Notice that when you point out that the trolls are full of shit, they immediate begin name stealing?
Really, they are too stupid to live.
Later.
TallDave - I think you mean Allah bless the Iraqi election. We haven't converted them yet.
"Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale."
I'm sorry, did someone suggest that the current pre-emptive invasion of a neutral country was a war of some kind? There are several possible terms that are applicable but 'war' doesn't immediately come to mind.
(NB: Don't overdo the prissypants, faux hauteur Trolly. It's a giveaway.)
Hey. If the right wants to waste time and money trying to unseat Kennedy in Massachussetts, bring it on. It will drain resources from places they can have more effect (like the coming Senate races in New Jersey).
As for Kennedy being a traitor. I think the term you're looking for is "checks and balances." See also, Constitution, US. Disagreeing with the President on a war isn't something Senators are allowed to do. It's something their obligated to do, if their constituents feel it's right and if their conscience demands it.
Reynolds has no right to call anybody a traitor. He's a slimy little punk who Joe Kennedy would have had kneecapped and dangled over a bridge.
,Also, you should keep people like "pie" safely locked away where moderate voters can't see or hear them. Putting them on the Sentae floor does not help your cause.
I would be proud to have pie speak for me. a thousand times over.
God bless the Iraqi elections.
Whose god?
antiphone, they have nothing to offer and deserve a string of insults in response. Look at the situation they've got us in. Like they have anything constructive to suggest? And they're not going to leave us alone until we all act like Republicans and I have no intention of doing that.
We are [on the side of democracy]. That's why we wanted to have a free and fair election at home
Trust me, you're not on the side of democracy when you badmouth the efforts to bring democracy to Iraq on the eve of elections there, or slash tires on the eve of the election in Milwaukee here.
But if you don't want to listen, you can look forward to many more elections like this past November.
An0nymous has the right to tell lies but this does not mean he is not intolerably full of shit.
While there were sideways distortions comparable to lies seeking to capitalize on the Holocaust, the events at Abu Ghraib were horrific enough that a Jerzy Kosinski here or there cannot really have any effect on the little detail about
[say it with us]
RAPE ROOMS!!!!
In other words, degree matters, truth matters, and the false stories really were actually better than what the USA was doing. The only way for the distortions to matter would be if the essential charge of evil was itself distorted, and, sadly, it is not.
There are other, laughable things this idiot let slip, like how a Democratic Party that believes Israel has the right to defend itself against children and the elderly is so comparable to the Arab media. Yeah.
And again this magical trick with the errors being Soooooooo numerous, why, why, golly, you just can't begin to number them. Because there aren't any. He takes up a page with filler and every other clause is "but i'll leave it at that, because the evil of the Demoncrats is so pernicious..."
You and the registered Rethug who bemoaned the exact same things about the wayward ultra-liberal Demoncrats at a Dean rally ain't fooling anyone.
her eyes,
That's become apparent to most of America. Hence the election results.
I have often thought Stevie Wonder would go well on wheat with just a little mayo & mustard.
BlakNo1
Dehumanized objects usually do.
Teh funny...
Georgie bush, georgie bush,
Riding through the land,
Georgie bush, georgie bush,
Lots of neocons at hand,
He steals from the poor,
And gives to the rich,
Stupid bitch.
-
The latest CBS/New York Times poll shows 55 percent of Americans disapprove of Bush's handling of the situation in Iraq and only 40 approve, with 5 percent ...
Trust me
hee!
,Also, you should keep people like "pie" safely locked away where moderate voters can't see or hear them. Putting them on the Sentae floor does not help your cause.
Ok, so he made one valid point.
TallDave, are you referring to the "stolen" election?
We almost missed it! Here's where drooly messed up!
The fundamental charge is Kennedy's adcvocating withdrawal days before the fake elections.
Why on earth is that upsetting to a faith-based liar like An0nymous? We thought we'd turned a corner or six! We thought schools were getting painted! We thought Iraq was a sovereign stateand by tarnation sovereign means sovereign! What's former Baathist murderer Allawi got to worry about?
"the efforts to bring democracy to Iraq"
What are you talking about? Whose efforts? How the hell do you impose democracy externally? What's your grudge against Iraq?
Pfui. Doubletalk, nonsense and brainwashed fallacies.
Why do these clowns only talk in scripts?
Oh yes, the Iraqis are waiting with bated breath to see what Ted Kennedy has to say. They can't see with their own eyes what things are like in Iraq, and they are depending on his insights. The insurgents print his speeches on little pamphlets and slip them under people's doors.
An0n - point to us the constitutional amendment whereby we repealed the right to free speech, that is, to freely state our opinions, even if it makes the powerful uncomfortable, and you might have a point.
You jackholes aren't content with controlling everything; after years of whining about how the world was all fucked up because you didn't have total control, you now have what it was you claimed would set things right.
But instead of setting things right, you've fucked them up worse than ever. And now you're whining that having complete control isn't enough, that what is really required for you to fix things is for anyone who disagrees to just shut the hell up.
And if we did, it's a sure bet that after you fucked things up even worse, we'd hear you whining that what is really needed for you to be able to fix things is to get rid of anyone who might have ideas or opinions different from your own.
Those are the only two steps left for you and your ilk, since as we all know, you already control all the power of the government. Yet somehow even that isn't enough to satisfy you. All that's left for you to assauge your inferiority complex is 1) to sanction and punish those who disagree with you (thereby "making" you feel stupid or 2) offing them.
So pardon us for not meekly lining up for the cattle cars, you fascist twit.
or slash tires on the eve of the election in Milwaukee here
Oh, the troll who calls himself John Kerry is here.
There's something wrong with you, dude.
Get help.
Anonymous: What are you going to believe? Me, or your own lying eyes?
Talldog,
You think this is about bringing Democracy to Iraq? have another drink of the koolaid, buddy.
The only people who can bring Democracy to Iraq are the Iraqees, not us.
Did you see the stories this week on CNN and NBC: It used to be that the bad guys wore masks, now it is the pro-American Iraqi forces wearing the masks.
But if you don't want to listen, you can look forward to many more elections like this past November.
TallDave
Elections like that one began in 2000, were perfected in 2002, and--you're absolutely right--every subsequent election will be exactly like the last one: fixed!
Lmao Karin
So -that's- what the gas man was screaming about when he left yesterday....
Wow, and I thot our gas company employed weirdos!
Every human being deserves liberty and democracy.
Agreed. Now, let's let them achieve that the way we did: from within, not imposed from without.
Ripley- Some jackhole is just trying to stir up shit, ignore it.
But thanks.
The rest of my thoughts I will keep to myself.
We didn't want your first "thoughts" either.
ahhh... but they were not his; that spiel was the near ver-batim mantra
of bush's butt plug -hannity, he repeats constantly and even a Troll can mimic
Has anyone pointed out that the Iraqis are too busy trying not to get shot to pay attention to what happens on the floor of the US Senate? Moad-Dib has it right.
And I'd rather have pie represent my voice than most of the US government. She is quick to take offense, and not always right, but no one is perfect. She takes more shit here than anyone, and she's right the vast majority of the time. Pie's cool with me.
"Wow, and I thot our gas company employed weirdos!"
Well, to be fair, Arthur was following pretty closely, and at a pretty good clip.... I think there may have been some scent that caught his fancy. Can't live on rawhide chewy things along, after all.
Thats crap! it is high time somebody like pie spoke up and had the ovaries/gonads/balls whatever to do it. None of this middle of the road crap, it ain't working anyway.
The election was stolen
Trust me, you're not on the side of democracy when you badmouth the efforts to bring democracy to Iraq on the eve of elections there, or slash tires on the eve of the election in Milwaukee here.
Trust me, you're not on the side of democracy when you suggest we are against democracy on the eve of elections in a country we invaded not to liberate but because of WMD, or to suppress the minority vote in Florida and Ohio.
But it is written in history that when an autocracy is removed by powers other than the people themselves, that autocracy will be replaced by an autocracy even more vicious. Democracy has never been bestowed upon a people by a paternal outside hand.” – Joseph McCarthy
Momica, Ripley-
Well, technically, they're the same God. Islam, Judaism and Islam all worship the God of Abraham.
But when I say God bless the Iraqi elections, I am invoking my God. Islamic Iraqis are free to invoke Allah or anyone they choose, and should be. In fact, I believe that right is in their interim constitution, and will be in the new one as well. Isn't freedom great?
{{{{{pie}}}}}
Fielding Mellish,
Would that georgie bush only dealt in lupins....
Ripley --
Japan, Germany, Italy, Austria...
" Can't live on rawhide chewy things along, after all."
Can't live on them alone either.
Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale. He has a right to express himself but he is incapable of any reasonable measure of restraint.
Well, whaddya want him to do? Wait 'til Christmas?
Never mind that Kennedy's been saying this for
ahhh... but they were not his; that spiel was the near ver-batim mantra of bush's butt plug -hannity, he repeats constantly and even a Troll can mimic
astrotrollf
Pie's cool with me.
And she's making spinach gnocchi. What's not to like?
Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale. He has a right to express himself but he is incapable of any reasonable measure of restraint.
Well, whaddya want him to do? Wait 'til Christmas?
Never mind that Kennedy's been saying this for years.
His words will be used by the insurgents and the Arab media to cause more damage, not less.
Please explain how Ted Kennedy's words directly kill soldiers, civilians, or knock out infrastructure.
If any of you read how Seymor Hersh's charges were distorted [US soldiers filming the rape of Iraqi boys at Abu Gharaib], it took less than a day for them to be posted on flyers and posters outside Abu Gharaib. That later morphed even furthur into women being raped by US soldiers encouraged attacks on the prison to prevent furthur abuse. That is how the Arab media works. I have been following it for about 5 years, and lately the Democratic party is sound more like Al Jazeera or Al Manaar than the party of people.
Yes. Because this is not repeated anywhere else in the world. Especially NOT that shining beacon of journalism, "Fox 'News'."
And what are your credentials for knowing how "the Arab Media" works, anyway?
Whatever point Kennedy was trying to make, he served up a huge propaganda victory for the enemy two days before Iraqi elections. One that will not only hurt the future Iraqi government and Iraqi people, but one that directly endangers American and coalition troops.
Again, please explain how exactly Ted Kennedy's words directly "will not only hurt the future Iraqi government and Iraqi people, but one that directly endangers American and coalition troops."
There are an inordinate number of factual errors in Thursdays speech, but I will leave those as is. I am not going to get into a factual discussion with Michael Moore supporters.
What does supporting Michael Moore have do with the explanation, or this topic at all? (Rhetorical question)
But that is only the first in a long line of my problems with Kennedy. He is at the fringe left of the party, and having him in a leadership role drives moderate Democrats, independants and centrist Republicans away from the party.
Please define "fringe left" and how exactly he is responsible driving the above groups away. What does he do to drive them away, pray tell?
You still have not answered Atrios' request of "Perhaps some of you trolls can point to the parts of Kennedy's speech that [Ted Kennedy's speech=Trent Lott praising Thurmond's run for president as a segregationist]."
Because of this, please shut the fuck up and go suck on an artificial tit.
Thank you.
And I'd rather have pie represent my voice than most of the US government. She is quick to take offense, and not always right, but no one is perfect. She takes more shit here than anyone, and she's right the vast majority of the time. Pie's cool with me.
NYMary
Look, we all love pie but she does have some major flaws when it comes to using logic.
"Wow, and I thot our gas company employed weirdos!"
Well, to be fair, Arthur was following pretty closely, and at a pretty good clip.... I think there may have been some scent that caught his fancy. Can't live on rawhide chewy things along, after all.
Mmm...fresh gas man...
I have been against almost every area of Bush policy except foreign policy.
Now that's funny.
Ever hear of "winning the hearts and minds"? Ever read "the ugly American"? We have had a thousand chances to change the minds of Arabs, and have failed miserably on all of them. Now not just the Arabs hate us, but so does most of the rest of the world. And you support Bush's foreign policy, boggles the mind.
And I know BlakNo1 can take care of BlakNo1, but I'm in a feisty mood today, so if any one wants to fuck around, i'm ready.
Karin, good comeback,
pie--speak out, and loudly! for all of us!
An0n - point to us the constitutional amendment whereby we repealed the right to free speech, that is, to freely state our opinions, even if it makes the powerful uncomfortable, and you might have a point.
You jackholes aren't content with controlling everything; after years of whining about how the world was all fucked up because you didn't have total control, you now have what it was you claimed would set things right.
But instead of setting things right, you've fucked them up worse than ever. And now you're whining that having complete control isn't enough, that what is really required for you to fix things is for anyone who disagrees to just shut the hell up.
And if we did, it's a sure bet that after you fucked things up even worse, we'd hear you whining that what is really needed for you to be able to fix things is to get rid of anyone who might have ideas or opinions different from your own.
Those are the only two steps left for you and your ilk, since as we all know, you already control all the power of the government. Yet somehow even that isn't enough to satisfy you. All that's left for you to assauge your inferiority complex is 1) to sanction and punish those who disagree with you (thereby "making" you feel stupid or 2) offing them.
So pardon us for not meekly lining up for the cattle cars, you fascist twit.
Jennifer
Now that folks, is someone who really knows what's she's fucking talking about!
anybody see the nytimes piece about how bushco is pressuring Qatar to sell jazerra network cos its' news is slanted against them? wonder what bill and rush et al. will have to say about that and how would they spin the whole deal?
TallDave - after a war they were actively fighting in. Not after a testerone-and- oil-driven invasion without merit.
OT, surfdork, are you out there? I finally got a letter back from Mary Landrieu in the mail today (dated 1/14). If you can believe it, it's even MORE weaselly than the one you posted yesterday from your Senator:
Dear Ms. ____________,
Thank you for contacting me regarding the nominations of Condoleeza Rice and Alberto Gonzales to the respective positions of Secretary of State and Attorney General.
You're welcome.
As you may know, the Senate is responsible for confirming the President's appointees to various positions of leadership including those in his cabinet.
No shit, that's why I called.
While I share some of your concerns about the Administration and several of its key players, we must keep in mind that the President was re-elected and that he retains the right to surround himself with the advisors of his choosing provided that they are not guilty of gross malfeasance while in office.
I guess her definition of "gross malfeasance" is different than mine. Does this mean he can appoint Ken Lay as SoS if he wants? I mean, what the hell kind of standard is that?
I have not yet decided how I will vote on these nominations, but please be assured that I will keep your views in mind.
Translation: kiss my ass, your views mean bupkus compared to the priority of appearing Republican in a Southern state.
I appreciate hearing from you and hope you will continue to contact me on issues of mutual concern. Please visit my website...blah, blah
Don't worry, Mary, you'll continue to hear from me.
her eyes,
For your party's sake, I hope that more reasonable voices prevail. Some of us would vote Democrat if you gave us a chance.
Oh, what clever trolls. Not.
Hmmmm. I have to finish cooking.
See ya later.
pie *would* be cooler if she fed me spinach gnocchi, monica....
but that's about the only change I'd request.
Look, we all love pie but she does have some major flaws when it comes to using logic.
Such as?
Why is the most horrible thing they can imagine freedom of speech? Why is their glorious perpetual victory so tenuous it cannot endure any criticism at all? Could it be because...they're lying?
y'know, when you read the words of someone as stupid as Willis, you end up believing stupid things.
Reynolds' point is that Kennedy's comments are as unacceptable to mainstream voting Americans as Lott's and hence it is in his party's interest that these comments not be associated with the Democrats.
Reynolds' assertion can be empirically proved or disproved and can certainly be discussed in good faith.
Calling him a "wanker" and linking to some Willis drivel does not constitute good-faith discussion, now does it?
Whatever point Kennedy was trying to make, he served up a huge propaganda victory for the enemy two days before Iraqi elections. One that will not only hurt the future Iraqi government and Iraqi people, but one that directly endangers American and coalition troops.
Well An0nymous, your comments helps to clarify my understanding of your priorities and therefore on the root of the problem you have with the Democratic party. We may have to agree to disagree about some things, for example: I don’t think Kennedy’s speech was a “propaganda victory for the enemy” in any significant way. I think what’s going on right now would be happening regardless. On the other hand I think if we are prevented from discussing our future course of action because of considerations like that we will have ceased to be a democracy ourselves. That’s not a sacrifice I’m willing to make at all, let alone for such a marginal advantage as enforced public silence would bring. Consider this aspect, how can we expect other parties, anyone from European allies to the Iraqis themselves, to step froward if our willingness to carry the burden has no limit?
Fielding Mellish-
Do you a schedule for the lupin express?
You think this is about bringing Democracy to Iraq? have another drink of the koolaid, buddy.
Yeah. It's about setting up 14 military bases in Iraq so we can attack Iran and Syria.
Please yell at me 'cuz I'm supposed to be getting things done around here instead of reading Eschaton. But:
This deserves a hotlink -- someone posted it above. There's been an all-out war between SpongeDob's minions and Keith Olbermann, including an E-mail machine set up to blast him and other reporters, which he's been blogging for several entries now. I'm only partway through it, but click to read: here. He handles it quite well.
Now, having tiptoed through the little piles here, I'll go clean the damn catbox.
Kennedy's speech is not the equivelent of Lott praising Thurman, it is far far worse. On the very eve of a hugely sensitive election, Kennedy gives a speech for the sole purpose of undermining the both the effort of our forces and the Iraqis' who really do want a democratic country.
Like a dog returning to it's own vomit, Kennedy returns to undermining American soldiers, just like he did when they were fighting on Hamburger Hill. He is a traitor and a liar who doesn't even believe half the crap he spews, but does so for political points. He is an embarrassment as a US Senator, and needs to wander off to a tarpit and sink himself (or just build a bridge over one, and put an inconvienent girl in the car with him)
God bless the Iraqi elections.
Which God would that be? Theirs or yours?
I am not a Republican, faith-based or a facist. Just an FYI.
TallDave - ain't nobody stopping you from voting any way you like. See? That's pretty doggoned Amurkin.
"Mmm...fresh gas man..."
Live is best. Howcome you think Arthur's got those pretty scimitar eye-teeth? Yessssss, precioussssss....
Hullo Avestus, bang that crackwhore yet?
For your party's sake, I hope that more reasonable voices prevail. Some of us would vote Democrat if you gave us a chance.
TallDave
Hell, some of us used to vote for them regularly.
For your party's sake, I hope that more reasonable voices prevail. Some of us would vote Democrat if you gave us a chance.
What's unreasonable about rejecting a war based on lies that continues to kill US troops, Iraqi civilians, and has done nothing to provide security at home? Please, I'd love to hear your "reasonable" case.
Troll rule 5. claim you would vote Democratic if only the party's voices were "reasonable."
Oh, but you forgot--only Rethugs call it the Democrat Party. oooooooooooooops.
eat shit, you turd!
That takes away from diddling their cats.
Troll
Here Kitty, Here Kitty
.
And she's making spinach gnocchi. What's not to like?
Oh don't mention that again. I so miss Strom and his gumming me.
-Liddy Dole
Trust me, you're not on the side of democracy when you badmouth the efforts to bring democracy to Iraq on the eve of elections there...
Ah, the ol' Otter defense: "I'm not going to sit here while you badmouth the United States of America!"
May I remind our little brownshirt friends of another classic Otter-ism: "Hey, you fucked up - you trusted us!"
You pricks can go enlist now...
TallDave--nobody is stopping you from voting democrat.
Except for the republicans who are trying to disenfranchise you.
I believe that reasonable voices do prevail. It is the unreasonableness of the right that I can't digest. How can you run a platform based on intolerance, lies and thievery?
Isn't it fun hearing lectures on democracy from people who think elected American Senators do not have a right to free speech?
Kennedy is right. Michael Moore is right.
You can't create a democracy by fighting a war based on lies.
Reynolds' assertion can be empirically proved or disproved and can certainly be discussed in good faith.
Oh, I'm game: empirically prove Reynolds' assertion. Don't just assert. Prove it.
Look, Arthur, a swarm! PTA meeting's started, and Mummy and StepDaddy are out til at -least- 9!
Hey, want to bask in the glow of accomplishment known as the Iraq Occupation?
Check out all the great features.
But wait! There's more!
That's right, we'll also throw in sham elections and a free year's worth of carbombing!
Now, how much would you pay? Not 1000 billion, not 900 billion, not even 500 billion dollars!
That's right, you can have this clusterfuck for only 152 billion dollars!
Give or take. Umm, give actually. A lot.
Note: offer only valid if your leader is a warmongering fool. Prewar promises of rosestrewn parades may not apply.
Some of us would vote Democrat if you gave us a chance.
Dear Penthouse, I'm a blonde, blue-eyed cheerleader who never thought she'd be writing to Forum!...
I think plenty of people named Mary Jo and Joe and Mary and Fred and Ahmad have indeed died because of Trent Lott, and certainly because of Bush and Cheney...thousands and thousands of people have been murdered by the right, starting with 9/11. The left will never be as good at murder as the right, that's for sure. I mean, Laura Bush killed her ex-boyfriend, and wasn't charged, W financed his girlfriend's abortion, not a peep. Rightwing talk show hosts and guests call the opposition traitors, call for bombing and killing liberals (American citizens, by the way), when all the while our country is being sold to China and weakened from within and without through unnecessary and illegal foreign conflicts by a group of obviously insane power-grabbing cowards, supported by the ignorant rubes who conflate Ted Kennedy with Trent Lott. It would be good if they were to see the error of their ways in the future, except they are trying mightily to destroy the future, and the greatest country in history. All in the name of Party, just like the Nazis and Communists, absolutely no different. they are creating a Communist nation, National Socialism has risen again, with all the money and power going to the "owners". Want to point out rraitors? How abut a vice president who has made millions as a war profiteer? How about a president whose family was intimately involved with Hitler, and who espouses the same philosophy? How about Bush 1, in bed with the Saudis (remember them? 15 of them on passenger jets on 9/11) and the Chinese? How about a secretary of defense shaking hands with the great war criminal Saddam? How about a national security adviser who ignores intelligence warnigs of impending attacks that actually HAPPENED? And what kind of "CEO" president promotes such incompetence? A man who hates the American people, that's who. Bush hates America, and Bush supporters hate America. Or are they all just sick, twisted, driven insane by talk radio and vapid propoganda on the TV? Either way, they are the real traitors, who would destroy in the name of gawd. Fuckwits.
Thats a goood kitty.
.
Here's an example of what you should not be opposing by badmouthing the war effort. If you show America you don't care about democracy (and those putting their lives on the line for it), don't expect to win elections.
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Best regards to all. I'm out.
I am not a Republican, faith-based or a facist. Just an FYI.
FYI= Fuckin Youseful Idiot
Some of us would vote Democrat if you gave us a chance.
C'mon. You're not really trying anymore.
No! You may not have a chance to vote "Democrat"!
For your party's sake, I hope that more reasonable voices prevail. Some of us would vote Democrat if you gave us a chance.
We don't want you. Go away. Leave. You're not welcome. Out. Out. Out.
If you claim to be bringing "democracy" to Iraq and yet can't take a Senator representing his constituents against your cult leader (also known as "democracy") we don't need you. We could probably get Moonies and Neo Nazis too but we don't want them. Besides, you're probably ugly. You probably smell. You'd probably be no fun at parties and you probably have bad taste in furniture. Go away. Get lost. Scram.
Oh lord - they're All here. Do you guys plan your Saturday nights to come shine the light of intellect and freedom on the poor Eschaton community?
I can't speak for all the good liberals here, but I'm perfectly capable of reading, listening to the news and forming my own opinions on our gov't (such as it is) without hearing the ranting-points from the Uptight Right.
Iraq is having elections, yay! That doesn't feed the poor in America, does it? That doesn't resuscitate the dead soldiers and Iraqis, does it?
Please save your insufferable, illogical whining for LGF or Freep - thanks
Kennedy gives a speech for the sole purpose of undermining the both the effort of our forces and the Iraqis' who really do want a democratic country.
And this is worse than perpetuating segregation?
But we have yet to have it explained to us how it is that Dolchstosslegende is somehow the dominant policy doctrine. How can soldiers worry more about speeches than their own security concerns? We were there. Let us assure you, nobody gives a rat's ass what you think. Support the troops, ask that the troops be fried over a pit, they don't care. They have plenty to worry about handling the roses and songs Cheney promised. Your criticism, support, hatred or love has nothing whatever in the way of an effect on the soldiers. It means nothing in the Nazi (and we do mean to say Nazi) way that the rightists are using it to mean.
BTW, am I the only one who thinks Instacracker is undoubtedly benefitting from the reduction in brownshirt columnist payments? Less mouths mean a bigger pie, if you get my drift...
An0nymous ... Are you aware of the Framers' reason for including the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights? Their chief concern was that the people feel free to CRITICIZE THE GOVERNMENT. That's right. The idea behind freedom of speech wasn't to guarantee you 300 channels of cable porn to whack off to. They viewed criticism of the government as essential to a healthy democracy. Since you don't seem too down with either, why don't you go find a country with a form of government more to your liking? Sheesh. And the wingers always accuse US of being un-American.
{{{{{pie}}}}}
And let's not forget Jennifer - two female Atriots who can speak for me any day o' the week.
Avestus - Cite for us the US code pertaining to treason, and use it as a framework to lay out your "case" against Kennedy.
"Traitor" is a term defined by law. Look up the law and explain to us why and how Kennedy has violated it with his speech.
Otherwise, admit you're a shitbag throwing words around that he doesn't really understand.
-What- a funny swarm.
Now, let us pause to consider what precisely set them off.
Then, since that seems to be the fear centre, let's do it some more....
Avestus | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 7:43 pm | #
Avestus, you are an apologist for torture and death squads. You are evil and frankly the stench of you should give those "concerned Democrats" (if that's what they are) pause as they consider just who it is they've taken up with and whether your odious and obvious evil is worse than Ted Kennedy calling the Iraq adventure what it is, a failure.
Because, guess what, elections do not a free society make. Saddam Hussein had elections, for chrissakes. No, our failure in Iraq is from people like yo who do not understand that invading a country to impose Democracy on it is fucking incoherent. Especially when it is done without any sort of global consensus.
I think Kennedy gave that speech to get people to start EXPECTING troops to be moved out of Iraq -- hey what would come more naturally -- hold elections, then turn the country over to the Iraqis, right? Then, when Bush doesn't do that, they can begin to see the game he's playing over there. Bush isn't serious about peace in the Middle East. He just wants things to quiet down in Iraq so he can start sucking out the oil and start attacking Iran.
Best regards to all. I'm out.
Translation from brownshirtese: I'm getting my ass handed to me on a platter. It was never like this at Jack in the Box!
{{{{{Jennifer}}}}}
Besides, she always seems to like my Nader jokes.
I am not a Republican, faith-based or a facist. Just an FYI.
An0nymous
Ahhhh, sweetie. Ain't you cute?!? It's okay. Don't worry. A fair number of your sort drift by occasionally, like plankton. That's what they ALLLLLL say at first...
BTW, the challenge - Perhaps some of you trolls can point to the parts of Kennedy's speech that fit the bill - still stands.
If you moronic brownshirt fucks can take the time away from the circle jerk, that is...
Ow! Ow! OW!
Damn,
Shit, where's the freaking bandiads.
BAD kitty!
.
(yawn)...the trolls are boring me to tears.
Night all.
pie--i hear you...loud and clear!
Night, BlakNo1.
Res, tell me more of this "cable porn" you speak of....
SWR,
"bad taste in furniture"?
That's great!
"Consider this aspect, how can we expect other parties, anyone from European allies to the Iraqis themselves, to step froward if our willingness to carry the burden has no limit?" - antiphone
Consider this. Have pie keep his rantings to himself for a week, instead of make a run at the press circut saying the war is lost.
Try as best as possible to secure the election. 30 days after the election schedule a referendum for an up or down vote on whether Iraqis want the coalition to remain to provide security for another year.
If the vote is yes, then we stay another year, and the "occupation forces" bullshit rhetoric propigated by Michael Moore, the Arab Media, and Ted Kennedy is not longer believable.
If the vote is no, equip the Iraqi police, national guard, and army as best as possible, pack up and leave. Maybe work with neighboring countries to help lock down the borders, or work with other countries to prevent the preaching of violence and religious terrorist financing.
Only come back to specific Iraqi municipalities if they can demonstrate a majority of public support for their own security forces, and ours. And only provide security and rebuild the infrastructure of those who cooperate. That may create a split in the country, some Arab journalists believe that would be a slippery slope to a future civil war, but f them. Either cooperate with us or rebuild and protect your own cities yourself. This would probably not be an issue outside of the Sunni triangle.
This is a moderate approach. One that supports both the Iraqis and the coalition. This is a position that Michael Moore, Barbara Boxer and Ted Kennedy could not touch with a 10 foot pole.
Kennedy gives a speech for the sole purpose of undermining the both the effort of our forces and the Iraqis' who really do want a democratic country.
I love your ESP. Quick, tell me what I'm thinking.
Oh, but you forgot--only Rethugs call it the Democrat Party.
Did he really write that? (I don't read his posts.) That's a sure giveaway they've been listening to too much Limpballs and have absorbed the language of Repuke-speak.
Cult brainwashing complete.
What happened, freeperville breakdown again?
We don't want you. Go away. Leave. You're not welcome. Out. Out. Out.
This is the democratic party you guys have made. You own it.
It's the horse you will have to ride on.
Good luck.
A Perfect Circle reminds me a lot of Tool.
Um... Newsflash: Perfect Circle and Tool have the same frontman: Maynard James Keenan. Might explain why they sound alike.
Kennedy gives a speech for the sole purpose of undermining the both the effort of our forces and the Iraqis' who really do want a democratic country.
Really? Where in the speech does Kennedy express that intention? If he didn't speak it, how do you divine it?
The people in power absolutely WILL NOT acknowledge the existence of a loyal opposition in this country. They WILL NOT allow for the possibility of genuine disagreement.
That, and they can't give up their commitment to be victims.
Fucking cowards.
Consider this. Have pie keep his rantings to himself for a week, instead of make a run at the press circut saying the war is lost.
You mean lie?
What part of "the war is lost" don't you understand.
Is it the "the", the "war", the "is" or the "lost"?
LJ,
Wow, I had assumed that was a joke. But then I'm an optimistic soul.
pie: Re your 7:18 post
Lott did not directly plant the bomb.
Kennedy drove the car off the bridge and then didn't bother to help Mary Jo; he was directly involved. And then worried about this would affect him. Sorry try again!!!!!!!!
Monica: I do not equate Kennedy's speech with Trent Lotts's speech. They are both scum!!!!!!!!!
It's the horse you will have to ride on.
Good luck.
kls | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 7:54 pm | #
What part of "stick your head in a toilet Freeper scum" don't you understand?
The repugs use Teddy as a symbol and browbeat him every chance they get. Does anyone else wonder what "tricky dick" nixon meant when he was quoted on the White House tapes as saying, "If Kennedy had any idea of the beartrap he was walking into..."
Of course, the ties between chimpy's admin and tricky dicks run very deep. The repugs know they can stir up a lot of anti-democrat sentiment when they can make disparaging remarks about Kennedy.
He was the 3rd in the heir apparent to a "Kennedy Dynasty." That got taken care of in a hurry -- JFK was shot (perhaps a coup detat?) and when Bobby was going to threaten tricky dick's approach to the throne, we was taken out (has anyone else looked at the behavior of LAPD or the incontroverical evidence that sirhan sirhan did not fire the shots that killed RFK).
Teddy is worth more alive, because they can use him to demonize everything that liberals stand for. Isn' it interesting that a bush became the "family dynasty" instead of a Kennedy? Chimpy's grandfather brought nixon into politics -- nixon rode the assassinations of the 60's into the White House (Ike did not support nixon -- did not even want him on the ticket) and now we face the prospect of Jeb in '08.
I doubt that they can revive neil bush into a "respectable" candidate, but nothing would surprise me -- the propaganda that comes out of this administration is just too good. Neil, of course, is the poster boy for all the crooks in the Savings and Loan scandal. Is anyone else concerned what neil and his band of theives will do if they get their hands on Social Security?
I don't think we can take winning more wars like this.
Here's an example of what you should not be opposing by badmouthing the war effort. If you show America you don't care about democracy (and those putting their lives on the line for it), don't expect to win elections.
Caring about democracy=agreeing to every little thing that Bush does, however lunatic?
To put those who put their lives on the line in parentheses is both disrespectful of the military and causes a false equivalence between caring about democracy and putting an "I support the troops" sticker on the SUV while not giving one cent towards the needs of the military.
Badmouthing the war effort=treason, but starting a war on false pretenses, against the will of the rest of the world and then causing countless unnecessary deaths just to have Iraq end up a fundamentalist theocracy in the best scenario=patriotism.
"Are you aware of the Framers' reason for including the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights."
Learn the difference between free speech and sound judgement moron.
Has anyone here ever picked up an Arab paper or watched an Arab news broadcast?
Didnt think so. "Control Room" doesnt count.
Kennedy drove the car off the bridge and then didn't bother to help Mary Jo; he was directly involved. And then worried about this would affect him. Sorry try again!!!!!!!!
Funny how this doesn't bother you.
Five American soldiers have been accused of driving a 19-year-old Iraqi civilian to his death in the Tigris river in one of the main centers of resistance to the occupation.
Zeidun Fadhil and his cousin Marwan Fadhil were allegedly taken to a remote spot on the shore and ordered into the river at gunpoint. When they refused, the soldiers were said to have forced them into the river. Zeidun, who could not swim, drowned in the strong current. His cousin survived to tell the story.
Kennedy drove the car off the bridge and then didn't bother to help Mary Jo; he was directly involved. And then worried about this would affect him. Sorry try again!!!!!!!!
And how does that mean he's wrong about the fact that we lost the Iraq war?
Monica: I do not equate Kennedy's speech with Trent Lotts's speech. They are both scum!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like you equate them.
What part of "stick your head in a toilet Freeper scum" don't you understand?
SWR
Like I said, you broke the democratic party and now you own it.
Good luck.
WGG,
Hey, did you see the drubbing I took today for defending you? Proud to do it, but.... damn!
Anon, have you?
Either cooperate with us or rebuild and protect your own cities yourself. This would probably not be an issue outside of the Sunni triangle.
This is a moderate approach.
Comedy Gold™!
Learn the difference between free speech and sound judgement moron.
Learn the difference between sticking your hand in a meat grinder and sticking your dick in an electrical socket.
No really. Try it for yourself. Learn it.
(((((flory & BlakNo1)))))
thanks guys, that's nice of you. (And yes Blak I love your Nader jokes!)
Ah yes, we've entered (simultaneously) the incoherent, frothing stage and the pretentious, explanatory stage of the designated trolls. Rare to have them at the same time, but still, recognisable.
Soon, soon, we will resolve to the anti-female harangue level.
Tiresome. But it is true - we have discovered what the market is for those big ceramic lamps with the dark burlap shades that are so popular in furnished studio apartments.
Learn the difference between free speech and sound judgement moron.
Funny, I don't recall anything about 'sound judgement' in Amendment I.
Ripley ... I don't even have cable. My beau has about 1,000 channels, though. I just figured they weren't *all* carrying sports.
Like I said, you broke the democratic party and now you own it.
Good luck.
kls | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 7:58 pm | #
Nah. That was Daschle and Gephardt for supporting your cult leader's war.
"Are you aware of the Framers' reason for including the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights."
Learn the difference between free speech and sound judgement moron.
Has anyone here ever picked up an Arab paper or watched an Arab news broadcast?
Didnt think so. "Control Room" doesnt count.
Has anyone here ever picked up an Arab paper or watched an Arab news broadcast?
Yeah. So what?
Has anyone here ever picked up an Arab paper or watched an Arab news broadcast?
Yup. I read IslamOnline, PalestinianChron, Al Jaz, and a number of others online. I also watch Mosaic on LinkTV.
So fuck you, you anti-expression, anti-democracy asshat.
GWP, I'll start - "Condi Rice and Ann Coulter are feminazis!" Discuss, dittoheads....
Now Anonymous will return to LGF of Freeperville after getting his ass handed to him to get reaffirmation with other wing nuts like child molesters get affirmation from each other, and like a bulimic who can't control themselves, will return to puke more idiotic bile.
And the inane beat goes on.....
Sorry it was screw 'em, not scew them. My apologies. Antiphone, I would but I think it would be wasted on this forum.
I have been running over an open letter I would write to the Democratic party, a return to a more moderate tone. I have been against almost every area of Bush policy except foreign policy. And even there I have major problems with how he has conducted his administration.
If you want to know my problem with Ted Kennedy's speech, it goes beyond what he said then, but if you want the problem with that particular speech I will tell you. Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale. He has a right to express himself but he is incapable of any reasonable measure of restraint. His words will be used by the insurgents and the Arab media to cause more damage, not less. If any of you read how Seymor Hersh's charges were distorted [US soldiers filming the rape of Iraqi boys at Abu Gharaib], it took less than a day for them to be posted on flyers and posters outside Abu Gharaib. That later morphed even furthur into women being raped by US soldiers encouraged attacks on the prison to prevent furthur abuse. That is how the Arab media works. I have been following it for about 5 years, and lately the Democratic party is sound more like Al Jazeera or Al Manaar than the party of people.
Whatever point Kennedy was trying to make, he served up a huge propaganda victory for the enemy two days before Iraqi elections. One that will not only hurt the future Iraqi government and Iraqi people, but one that directly endangers American and coalition troops.
There are an inordinate number of factual errors in Thursdays speech, but I will leave those as is. I am not going to get into a factual discussion with Michael Moore supporters.
But that is only the first in a long line of my problems with Kennedy. He is at the fringe left of the party, and having him in a leadership role drives moderate Democrats, independants and centrist Republicans away from the party.
The rest of my thoughts I will keep to myself.
The rest of my thoughts I will keep to myself.
You're really doing a bad job at this.
Try harder.
we have discovered what the market is for those big ceramic lamps with the dark burlap shades that are so popular in furnished studio apartments.
So *that's* the bad furniture SWR was talking about! I though maybe we were talking hanging macrame chairs, or burnt-orange plush.
Has anyone here ever picked up an Arab paper or watched an Arab news broadcast?
All the time. What's your point?
I found both Al Jazeera and Al Manar to be more reality-based than Fox.
"Are you aware of the Framers' reason for including the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights."
Learn the difference between free speech and sound judgement moron.
Has anyone here ever picked up an Arab paper or watched an Arab news broadcast?
Didnt think so. "Control Room" doesnt count.
Hey GWPDA if you're around: my dad lives in East Mesa and they got a TON of hail this afternoon. (I live in West Mesa, where whatever hail we got melted off quickly.) He sent me some pictures, it was so thick it looked like a bit of a snowfall. Did you get hail in your part of town?>
Nah. That was Daschle and Gephardt for supporting your cult leader's war.
SWR
SWR, console yourself with the thought that that you have done to the democratic party may be undone (over time, of course).
Still, you broke it and now you own it.
Good luck.
!!!!!!!!!
Such moderation.
Implying the war is lost two days before the Iraqi elections is beyond the pale. He has a right to express himself but he is incapable of any reasonable measure of restraint.
Ted Kennedy has said nothing your average person with a brain hasn't known for the past 12 months. Bush fucked up, big time. And a hell of a lot of innocent people are dead for his little fuck up.
If you really want to get on someone's shit about their poor choice of words, you might want to focus on Bush, who at the beginning of the insurgency in July 2003, crowed "Bring it on!", basically inviting people to attack our troops.
I don't recall any "sound judgement" invading Iraq.
LJ- I think "her eyes" was aware of that fact. The subject has come up before.
One reason I'll be happy this year no matter what- new Tool CD/tour.
If the vote is yes, then we stay another year, and the "occupation forces" bullshit rhetoric propigated by Michael Moore, the Arab Media, and Ted Kennedy is not longer believable.
You read that right: if Saddamite baathist murderer Iyad Allawi consents a second time, then our occupation of Iraq cannot be considered "occupation."
SWR, console yourself with the thought that that you have done to the democratic party may be undone (over time, of course).
Still, you broke it and now you own it.
The needle on the record is stuck. Can somebody smack it on the back of the head so it either says something new or shuts up?
An0n...It's YOU who are the moron because you're ignorant like most wingnuts. If Kennedy can get his views accepted in the "marketplace of ideas" then so be it. And if you don't like it, tough shit. That's the idea behind democracy, dip shit. What sounds extreme, of "unsound judgment" to you sounds perfectly reasonable to others. Whether or not it's radical to call for withdrawal during a time of war or just before election is not the point. The point is that it's ESSENTIAL that he be able to say it just as it's essential that you be able to spout your drivel in forums where you're neither wanted nor respected.
Deanna - no, what we got was enough wind and wildness to persuade me that the tornado warning was justified. But I'm in the center of town and seriously crazy weather tends to head for the outskirts. Still getting bunches of rain tho, enough so that Arthur has decided to pack it in and have an early night.
Anon:
This is a moderate approach. One that supports both the Iraqis and the coalition.
All right. What you've described is a perfectly reasonable approach.
Now you've kindly pointed out how none of us traitorous, freedom hating liberals are willing to support such an approach. I'm sure you can direct us to the administration's enthusiastic support for your plan.
burnt-orange plush
Mmm... Burnt-Orange Plush Freedom™!
Still, you broke it and now you own it.
Kls, we could say the same thing about George Bush and America. Personally, I don't like the idea of George Bush owning America, but You voted for him, pallie.
... I've been workin' on my web site,
All the live long day,
Tryin' to make it really spiffy,
And to maybe make it pay.
I come visiting Eschaton,
Chat with all my clique,
But I find a bunch of troll boys,
Who can suck my [radio edit].
Avestus, won't you blow,
Avestus, won't you blow....
Lol, thanks to the person who keeps reposting my comments. Here is one from Al Jazeera that was particularly informative last week:
US soldiers raid Baghdad mosque
By Faleh Al-Khattab
Thursday 27 January 2005, 0:10 Makka Time, 21:10 GMT
Abd al-Hadi al-Darraji: They want to impose their culture on us
US soldiers attacked a mosque in Sadr City in Baghdad, arresting 25 Iraqis and violating the sanctity of the shrine, Iraqi sources said on Tuesday.
Shaikh Abd al-Hadi al-Darraji, a top aide of the Shia leader Muqtada al-Sadr, told Aljazeera.net that what happened in Masjid al-Rasul (The Prophet Mosque) reveals the real intentions of the US occupation forces.
He accused a US soldier of urinating on the Holy Quran and another of consuming alcohol within the chambers of the mosque.
"[This] is a great sin in Islam" al-Darraji said.
"The action of the US forces just days before Sunday's election is a serious provocation and it reveals that the US is serious in insulting the Islamic values and impose its culture on us" he said.
"They claim they are democratic people, but they are targeting us because we boycotted the elections and said it should not be held under occupation."
No comments
Another official in al-Sadr's movement, Naim al-Qaabi, too accused US and Iraqi forces of tearing Qurans during the operation and arresting 21 Sadr supporters.
However, neither claims could be immediately verified and the interim Iraqi government has issued a statement saying it was investigating the incident.
The US military has not yet commented on the incident.
Moqtada al-Sadr led a fierce anti-US uprising before toeing the pro-election line, then changed his position later and vowed to boycott the elections as long as foreign troops remain on Iraqi soil.
Earlier this month, thousands of al-Sadr supporters demonstrated in several cities to protest against petrol and electricity shortages, accusing the interim government of ignoring the people in favour of Sunday's elections.
Al-Sadr is an Iraqi Arab Shia Muslim family notable for delivering religious leaders such as Muhamad Baqir and Muhamad Sadiq.
An0nymous, haven’t I been polite enough? I’d appreciate it if you would respond to my question: How can we expect the Iraqi people, our allies etc. to step froward if our willingness to carry the burden has no limit? Do you see nothing useful, in a purely pragmatic sense, to a discussion of pulling out.
Nice NTodd. I see you left the first part of the post off regarding direct involvement. I guess the intelligent Left chrry picks too. Sorry try again. I said the speeches were different but I will equate their scumminess.
"The rest of my thoughts I will keep to myself."
Promises, promises ...
I usedta be one of the Democrat Party, but you guyz are no gud and Kenneday's a tratur!!!!!! You force me to use lots of exklamation points and stuf!!!!!!! DON'T MAKE ME REEL MAD OR I WILL TYPE IN ALL KAPITULS!!!!!
-
"burnt-orange plush."
Yes, I think they've cornered that market too. Also, gold leatherette and dark brown Formica(tm).
Iraq Bio Weapons Program Larger Threat Today Than in 1991
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, Dec. 16, 2002 -- The threat posed by Iraqi biological weapons is more serious today than U.S. forces faced in the Persian Gulf War.
"All elements of their program are more advanced despite U.N. sanctions, despite the U.N. embargo," a U.S. intelligence official said today. The official is an expert on Iraqi military capabilities and spoke on the condition he not be identified by name.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/
..._200212164.html
Another act I'm happy about this year is The Mars Volta (more absolutely un-hip dino-rock). I've heard an advance copy of their latest Frances The Mute, and it's great.
On the very eve of a hugely sensitive election
Excuse me.
HOW THE FUCK IS THE IRAQ "ELECTION" THE MOST. IMPORTANT. ELECTION. EVAR?!
I didn't know that whoever gets "elected" directly influences the US preznit's thoughts.
I must've missed the part of my life that Saddam had a vote in Congress, fought with the Tories and Labour on Downing Street, and returned to Iraq just in time to detail Venuzuelan economic policy in a teleconference.
When Iraq gets American-Style (read: crooked) "Democracy" on Jan. 31st, will the flowers come out, the sun shine, the Care Bears start singing, and everybody in Iraq whistles Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah out of their asses?
Or will the Same Old Shit™ of death, destruction, and violation of Geneva Conventions, humanity, and common sense still occur?
Please, enlighten me.
I really want to know.
/now I feel better
I can't help but notice that none of our chastising troll friends has a word to say about my first post regarding the final solution for dissenters.
By the way fikertom: You misquoted the Kinks on a thread a few days ago. It is 'I'm GLAD(not BET) I'm a man and so is Lola.' I do believe, as you might, that Ray Davies is an under appreciated genius.
So, protesting an obvious policy failure that leads to American soldiers being killed = longing for the good ol' days of Jim Crow.
Maybe I should just boot up Morrowind tonight.
OT-Atrios, how do you know Jeff Gannon is a pseudonym? Not asking for a name of your source, just generally.
Tow
So, what's everyone wearing right now? Me, I'm in my underwear and a paisley shirt.
Just thought I'd steer the conversation away from the trolls.
Blak,
What think you of Arcade Fire? It didn't catch me, but so many people gush I fear I'm missing something.
In the history of stupid shit posted on this site, I think we've reached a new low watermark. World class wankers have checked in, for sure.
Whew. Hello, sane ones. Good to see you.
You wear underwear???
So, protesting an obvious policy failure that leads to American soldiers being killed = longing for the good ol' days of Jim Crow.
Seems that's the "argument," alright.
Arcade Fire
Dunno. Guess I'll have to fire up WinMX and find out.
Hey An0nymous, since the US government officially suspended the search for WMD in Iraq, and since our reason for going to war was to "disarm Saddam", why are our troops still dying there?
I'm just curious. If the Democrats are so irrelevent because of Kennedy and Boxer, why is the right so afraid of them?
If these "elections" are going to bring "democracy" to Iraq and a shiny new, pro-Israel puppet state with a privatized oil industry and a monument to George Bush in the center of Baghdad is about to be born, then why are you worried about a puffy old Man up in Boston?
Hmm?
If the Republicans are such a moderate force for good that's bringing democracy to the world, why are you worried about anonymous posters on a message board dissing the war that's supposedly going so well?
Hmm?
By the way fikertom: You misquoted the Kinks on a thread a few days ago. It is 'I'm GLAD(not BET) I'm a man and so is Lola.' I do believe, as you might, that Ray Davies is an under appreciated genius.
Troll | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 8:08 pm
I did? If so, I apologize. If I remember that correctly, I was hurriedly cutting-and-pasting. I've noticed the past month or two that the accuracy of some of the online lyric sites is... what's that word...? Appalling. But when you're trying to get an on-topic joke, sometimes you work with what you've got, and then see where it's all FUBAR. Did that the other day with some Mojo Nixon.
Here is one from Al Jazeera that was particularly informative last week:
US soldiers raid Baghdad mosque
By Faleh Al-Khattab
Thursday 27 January 2005, 0:10 Makka Time, 21:10 GMT
Abd al-Hadi al-Darraji: They want to impose their culture on us
US soldiers attacked a mosque in Sadr City in Baghdad, arresting 25 Iraqis and violating the sanctity of the shrine, Iraqi sources said on Tuesday.
Shaikh Abd al-Hadi al-Darraji, a top aide of the Shia leader Muqtada al-Sadr, told Aljazeera.net that what happened in Masjid al-Rasul (The Prophet Mosque) reveals the real intentions of the US occupation forces.
He accused a US soldier of urinating on the Holy Quran and another of consuming alcohol within the chambers of the mosque.
"[This] is a great sin in Islam" al-Darraji said.
"The action of the US forces just days before Sunday's election is a serious provocation and it reveals that the US is serious in insulting the Islamic values and impose its culture on us" he said.
"They claim they are democratic people, but they are targeting us because we boycotted the elections and said it should not be held under occupation."
No comments
Another official in al-Sadr's movement, Naim al-Qaabi, too accused US and Iraqi forces of tearing Qurans during the operation and arresting 21 Sadr supporters.
However, neither claims could be immediately verified and the interim Iraqi government has issued a statement saying it was investigating the incident.
The US military has not yet commented on the incident.
Moqtada al-Sadr led a fierce anti-US uprising before toeing the pro-election line, then changed his position later and vowed to boycott the elections as long as foreign troops remain on Iraqi soil.
Earlier this month, thousands of al-Sadr supporters demonstrated in several cities to protest against petrol and electricity shortages, accusing the interim government of ignoring the people in favour of Sunday's elections.
Al-Sadr is an Iraqi Arab Shia Muslim family notable for delivering religious leaders such as Muhamad Baqir and Muhamad Sadiq.
"So, what's everyone wearing right now?"
Bellodgia. With just a soupcon of Hills "gourmet" chicken.
The important priorities for America:
1. Stopping nuke proliferation.
2. Preventing global warming and other environmental disasters.
3. Building an economy where all can make a decent living and balancing the federal budget.
Then there are Bushboy's priorities:
1. Enrich rich corporations and rich people.
2. Wreck Medicare, Medicaid & Social Security.
3. Kill "terrorists," which means anhyone we designate as a "terrorist", anytime we want, anywhere we want.
Which is why America is
Whew. Hello, sane ones. Good to see you.
bigvic
You missed it. It's been hysterically funny.
To me, anyway.
Two questions:
1. Was it was proper for Kennedy to run the gamut of press outlets and make a speech implying the US has lost in Iraq 2 days before the elections?
2. Will it make it more or less difficult for Iraqi Police, Iraqi National Guard and the Iraqi Army, in addition to coalition forces and volunteer election workers to ensure security after the headlines made by Kennedy that the war is lost?
Now is their any relationship between question 1 and question 2? Am I a nazi republican bushitler just for asking them? Am I infringing on anyones freedom of speech with the questions above? Should I be dismissed as a troll, maybe I live in a fly over state, maybe I actually am religious and I lied above, maybe I am really Michael Moore just in here playing with your head.
This thread should be printed and framed.
So, what's everyone wearing right now? Me, I'm in my underwear and a paisley shirt.
Just thought I'd steer the conversation away from the trolls.
Ripley
I'm wearing a pink boa and a jock strap from 12th grade.
After listening to and reading the completely illogical, fact-impaired foaming at the mouth from those who've drunk the Bush regime's Kool-Aid, I'm led to one logical but sorry conclusion:
The worst of the inmates have taken over the asylum.
You wear underwear???
Only until I turn my webcam on.
So, what's everyone wearing right now?
Some here are obviously sporting ass hats.
"Hey An0nymous, since the US government officially suspended the search for WMD in Iraq, and since our reason for going to war was to "disarm Saddam", why are our troops still dying there?"
Because we have focused the war on terror there, instead of on our homeland.
So, what's everyone wearing right now? Me, I'm in my underwear and a paisley shirt.
I'm dressed in epaulets, a dance belt, Romper-Stompers, and chain mail.
I did notice that, Jennifer. Hi there! And hi, everybody else. Sorry I haven't been around as much lately. It'll probably continue that way for a couple of weeks -- I'm putting some new stuff on my main web site soon, and I've gotta debug it.
So, what's everyone wearing right now?
My scales and an expression of virtuous outrage at this thread.
Hey filk!!
Because we have focused the war on terror there, instead of on our homeland.
So basically we invite the terrorists into someone else's house, let them fuck things up a bit, and come in with machine guns and bulldozers.
That should really help our repuation in the Arab World NOT.
So, what's everyone wearing right now?
My red LL Bean thermals and a Henley shirt.
Because we have focused the war on terror there, instead of on our homeland.
The ability of people to believe this shite is easily proof that if we could just get cars to run on stupid, we wouldn't have to be in the Middle East at all.
Gads, what an ugly, yet unfocused, flame war. Everybody stop this fighting now, and go to your rooms.
You heard me....
way the hell upthread, one of the visiting team claimed Seymour Hersch's articles were the first inkling the Iraqis had of our 'fun & games' in Abu Gharib.
That isn't true. Your average Iraqi knew about the goings on there before we did- months before, there were sculptures eerily reminiscent of the photos we've seen for sale in Baghdad.
Really- if democracy in Iraq was the main goal, why didn't we just buy Saddam off, a la Idi Amin, and let him go to Syria?
fikertom: No need to apoligize. Just thought you might care to know. Correct on the lyric sites, the can be terrible.
Full academic regalia, including tam and hood. Oh, and a garter belt.
Ah, so now there are 2 An0nymous's.
Lol.
So, what's everyone wearing right now? Me, I'm in my underwear and a paisley shirt.
I'm dressed in epaulets, a dance belt, Romper-Stompers, and chain mail.
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 8:13 pm
FTL and a blue Eddie Bauer shirt.
Really this thread reminds me of mac heads spouting how great their computers are, while in reality they're just a bunch of faggy, interior designer play toys.
Do you prefer your "stupid" in regular, unleaded or premium? We have it all here.
Anon, if you think the elections were going to be a big, fat peace-fest if Kennedy hadn't said anything, you're beyond gullible.
You don't think the fact that the polling place, candidates, etc. weren't announced until the last minute shows there's a great fear about security?
"So what's everyone wearing right now?"
I'm wearing a dress made entirely of American flags. I plan to burn it later in front of RNC HQ.
Quite the troll infestation. Someone must have hit a nerve
Trolls, what the fuck are you doing here arguing with a bunch of liberals. If your so sold on this war, help your preznit, and get over there and fight the evildoers! Put your money where your mouth is.
Hey Blak!
(Makes me think of Ded Bob. "HEY, AUDIENCE!" "HEY, WHAT?")
Back to the topic: I am so happy I have to idea who this Glen Reynolds idiot is. I had never heard of the Gannon character either until I heard his moronic question on the Daily Show.
As to the trolls; you can ignore them or mention guys' butts that usually gets rid of them. Mention of Dennis Franz' butt sends them screaming from the room.
Oh, what kind of sause will you be putting on the spinach gnochi?
Because we have focused the war on terror there, instead of on our homeland.
More astrotrollf.
1. Was it was proper for Kennedy to run the gamut of press outlets and make a speech implying the US has lost in Iraq 2 days before the elections?
2. Will it make it more or less difficult for Iraqi Police, Iraqi National Guard and the Iraqi Army, in addition to coalition forces and volunteer election workers to ensure security after the headlines made by Kennedy that the war is lost?
Yes.
No, not appreciably.
Thanks for keeping your promise not to offer any more of your "thoughts."
So, what's everyone wearing right
White guy dreads. Torn jeans. A Che shirt. A kaffiyeh.
My monitor is decorated with shreds of a burned American flag.
burnt-orange plush
More offerings for Ba'al?
Or is that what I'm wearing? I'm so confused.
No use, Hoyt. That would require what Mick Foley used to refer to as "testicular fortitude".
"n" is me, and I wasn't done yet. Dammit.
It would be a lot better having an election in a country we hadn't bombed to smithereens, and we didn't *have* to do that.
Because we have focused the war on terror there, instead of on our homeland.
For crying out loud, both the discredited flypaper strategy and the use of the Orwellian term "homeland" in one brief post pulls the mask completely off.
Here's a few hints. There isn't a finite set of terrorists. Also the set of terrorists is not limited to people from the Middle East. Use of the word homeland in conversation only makes sense if you are somehow severed form that peice of real estate and aren't planning on going back.
FOLEY!! FOLEY!! FOLEY!!
faggy, interior designer play toys.
Mah people!
Oo-o-o, the "homeland". We're fighting terror in Iraq to protect the "homeland". Fills me with pride, how 'bout you?
When will his radio show start? Where can I hear it?
I too want to know what kind of sauce goes on the spinach gnocchi. And what wine is being served. Also, what's for desert.
Because we have focused the war on terror there, instead of on our homeland.
An0nymous
We focused the war on terror in Iraq? Even though Osama was in Afghanistan?
Why would we "focus" on Iraq instead of bringing Osama to justice, "dead or alive" as our cowardly cowboy Bushboy promised?
It couldn't possibly be because Iraq has the second largest oil reserves on the planet - could it?
Nah! We wanted to spread "freedom and democracy."
Yeah. Right.
Anyway, just tell me now. If, after the election, Iraqis and Americans continue to die at aroudn the same rate they are now, could you please let me know if we'll be allowed to point that out, or if we'll have to wait until after some other turning point like, say, the writing of the constitution...
Anon? (Damn it, he has me doing it now!) When do you suggest that the American people be told that their leader is charleton and fool and that his exercise in futility is futile?
If enough people (in the administration) had the patriotism to tell this fool that he was being a fool, then we could have saved everyone the problems that he created by his pigheaded stupidity.
You missed it. It's been hysterically funny.
So I see. I just got back from a genuine Irish wake (deceased was 2nd generation Irish, his wife, 1st generation British)that I thought was something straight out of central casting only to read the high comedy here. Whew.
I think you guys should lay off Anon.
It'll be sunrise in Iraq in a few hours, and I'm sure he's got a big day tommorow, what with the elections and everything.
You are posting from Iran, right Anon?
I get misty when I think about the elections... and when I look directly into the sun.. and when Bush speaks.. and when I cut onions...
Thus, I have proved my love of the Fatherland...errr.. Homeland...
I've got on my south park T, my gunsnbabes trucker hat, and my Jenna Jameson used underwear (used by her!) I got on her website.
Blak, if I were wealthy, I would right now be down at Wrestle Reunion in FL. Awesome lineup, Foley among them.
bigvic, did they get the sineater in?
As Geoffrey R. Stone, former dean of the law school at the University of Chicago notes in his book "Perilous Times, Free Speech in Wartime, From the Sedition Act of 1798 to the War on Terrorism" people like Anonymous, Ann Coulter, the chickenhawk Bill O'Reilly, etc., have been around since this country's inception. Anonymous says that Kennedy picked a wrong time to call for the withdrawal of troops. I doubt if it would matter when Kennedy would have made this statement, Anonymous would most likely have criticized Kennedy for saying it.As The Nation states in this week's editorial "as long as the occupation continues, any Iraqi govt. or constitution will be tainted and incapable of producing the comprises necessary for a stable and unified Iraq".
I had wondered where were this country's Mike Mansfields and Eugene McCarthys and George McGoverns of today. Perhaps by having Ted Kennedy say what he has , in calling for a troop withdrawal, that others will not hesitate in following Kennedy's lead and not be concerned that they will be labeled unpatriotic americans.
You are posting from Iran, right Anon?
You mean the Muullaahs troll as Freepers?
faggy, interior designer play toys.
Mah people!
And good goddamn real American people, too.
They hate us for our sexual freedom. (Such as still remains, anyway.)
So, what's everyone wearing right
I'm wearing my read and white Arab head-dress I always wear to post.
The fact that Iraq is a chaotic, burned out shithole ruled by anarchy where people drink sewage and watch their neighbors get blown up every day has nothing to do with Bush's failure to implement a comprehensive post-war plan.
If the elections don't succeed, it's all Ted Kennedy's fault because of some speech he gave, even though we know the democrats are totally irrelevant and no one listens to them anymore anyway, and even though Bush encouraged insurgents to attack US troops when he urged them to "bring it on".
bigvic:
So I see. I just got back from a genuine Irish wake
Ahhh. If my family experience is anything to go by - you're in a state of mind to truly appreciate the loonier aspects of today's conversation.
If we started this war just to get the terrorists to attack us outside this country, why not pick France as the place to invade? Or Lichtenstein?
Or even Saudi Arabia, given that they may have in fact had something to do with 9/11.
No, the Iraq war plan was in the Republican books long before 2001. That is what is so callous about this whole argument by the right: that we are being unpatriotic for not dancing to their tune, whereas what they are doing: manufacturing wars and killing people for reasons which might include oil and the desire to stay in power in this country, these things are patriotic!
Because we have focused the war on terror there, instead of on our homeland.
What is it with this fucking nazi 'homeland' jargon?
Can't you do anything except spout meaningless cliches?
Explain how attacking Iraq was connected to the war on terror, if you can. Not rhetorically, but using real facts and cases.
bigvic, did they get the sineater in?
GWPDA
Yikes. Maybe? what is the sineater? If it's booze, the answer is yes. Hahaha.
I get misty when I think about the elections... and when I look directly into the sun.. and when Bush speaks.. and when I cut onions...
Thus, the elections are onions.
And, yeah, it would be great if the ruling powers and their minions would, in future, let us know when it's OK to express an opinion that differs from the approved script.
Is there a place where U.S. Senators can get permits for their free speech?
1. Was it was proper for Kennedy to run the gamut of press outlets and make a speech implying the US has lost in Iraq 2 days before the elections?
The timing does not matter and the issue of propriety is just not there. What, you think the elections'll be honest and national now? They were already desperately defining down "elections" and making it sound like more expats would vote than resident Iraqis.
2. Will it make it more or less difficult for Iraqi Police, Iraqi National Guard and the Iraqi Army, in addition to coalition forces and volunteer election workers to ensure security after the headlines made by Kennedy that the war is lost?
Hate to break this to you, you liar who wants our comrades to die, but when you really win a war, it isn't arguable. Crackpots can say all they want and meanwhile the Third Reich, or the French occupation of Algieria, or the American occupation of Vietnam, or whatever is fucking dead. The fact that you need Stalinist conformity in order to get Tinkerbell back proves the glory of your victories. As we've already stated from empirical sand in the teeth experience people over there cannot be bothered by this (unless they're indignation-addicted rightists).
My sister's into that wrestling shit, filker, but I love her anyway.
Atrois, what, are you nuts? We have to stay there because terrorists hate freedom. Or because they're gonna throw flowers. Or something.
By the way, I don't know if you saw this -- I made for public use, have fun:
Atrios' Wanker Of The Day .gif
Yes, Monica, but the paperwork is excruciating....
Would have been nice to go after the countries that actually had the terrorists, rather than the ones who didn't. If Bush had been President on December 7, 1941, he would have had us declare war China or Korea, rather than Japan. After all, couldn't go against Grandpa's bidness buddies in Germany, an ally of Japan, could we?
Well, our President has made this real clear and has repeatedly said we are fighting the terrorists on their land instead of here.
My god the ignorance here is incredible!
I didnt just make that up.
It's been said by our President himself!
spaghetti -- I used to be way more into it. But the current product stinks, mostly. Classic stuff for me.
Wow, serious wrestling convention.
I miss ECW. They had everything you could posssibly want in a federation, and more.
Boy you hit the nail on the head there Stinky.
Is there a place where U.S. Senators can get permits for their free speech?
monica_nyc | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 8:25 pm | #
I have to admit it would be interesting if Bush sent troops into the Capital to arrest Kennedy on some trumped up terrorism charge.
We'd all be able to say "at this moment fascism began in the USA" and I could buy a few shotguns and a waterproof tent and head for Southeast Alaska.
The official is an expert on Iraqi military capabilities and spoke on the condition he not be identified by name.
I never did, and still don't, understand something about this. Can anyone tell me why all these anonymous sources who burned assorted "reporters" (he called them, choking down vomit) with the lies they spun in order to justify a war of choice were never named AFTER the fact as accomplices to the murders of thousands?
What's the point of protecting a source who used you as a chump and whose word is worthless?
If it was me, I think I'd be a bit more indignant about being some evil prick's patsy. They lie to your face "under condition of anonymity", then fuck 'em. They broke the pact, let's hear who the warmongers are.
Yeah, trolls, fuck free speech, especially from an elected senator. He's giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Just who are the enemy? The Iraqis who would like our soldiers to stop massacreing them? The families of the children who died when our smart bombs lost their way? It's not the foreigners, they aren't there in the numbers you claim, if you do any research. A tiny percentage of foreign fighters, and I mean less than 1%, have been captured, killed or otherwise identified. So Kennedy is giving aid and comfort to...whom? The same people who we are killing on a daily basis in order to bring them freedom, that's who. All to make Cheny and Bush and Halliburton even more disgustingly rich. A crew of chickenhawks, cowards and cheap thieves who have shamed America and made us the equivalent, worldwide, of Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin and all of the other models of current American governance. And yet you continue to whine like a spoiled baby.
Blak -- they're threatening to make the June PPV an ECW event. You can follow the news with good analysis at pwtorch.com.
Of course, WE knew about this yesterday:
Journalists Say Their White House Advice Crossed No Line
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 29, 2005; Page C01
Columnist Charles Krauthammer heaped praise on President Bush's inaugural address. But, he says, he had nothing to do with shaping the speech.
Weekly Standard Editor Bill Kristol also lauded the speech. He says he did not consult on the speech itself but discussed with two White House officials "themes for the second term and included in that, themes for the inaugural.
(snip)
What filkertom said. TNA is the only mass market wrestling worth watching right now, and they have a long way to go.
You mean the Muullaahs troll as Freepers?
Whoops, typo.
Just imagine though, in a couple months or so it's likely my original post will be valid.
The Cadillac stood by the house
And the Yanks they were within
And the tinker boys they hissed advice
’hot-wire her with a pin’
We turned and shook as we had a look
In the room where the dead men lay
So big Jim Dwyer made his last trip
To the home where his father’s laid
Fifteen minutes later
We had our first taste of whiskey
There was uncles giving lectures
On ancient irish history
The men all started telling jokes
And the women they got frisky
By five o’clock in the evening - correction this line
Starts with by not at
Every bastard there was piskey
Fare thee well gone away
There’s nothing left to say
Farewell to New York City boys
To Boston and PA
He took them out
With a well-aimed clout
And was often heard to say
"I’m a free born man of the USA!"
Karen said:
Not rhetorically, but using real facts and cases.
Sorry their minds don't work that way.
I used to read pwtorch and 1 wrestling a lot. Since my interest has waned, I don't as much anymore.
1. Was it was proper for Kennedy to run the gamut of press outlets and make a speech implying the US has lost in Iraq 2 days before the elections?
A quote from Kennedy's speech:
The elections in Iraq this weekend provide an opportunity for a fresh and honest approach. We need a new plan that sets fair and realistic goals for self-government in Iraq, and works with the Iraqi government on a specific timetable for the honorable homecoming of our forces.
Doesn't sound too disrespectful of the election to me.
2. Will it make it more or less difficult for Iraqi Police, Iraqi National Guard and the Iraqi Army, in addition to coalition forces and volunteer election workers to ensure security after the headlines made by Kennedy that the war is lost?
Cupcake, the insurgents are three steps ahead of us. They have home turf advantage, tons of explosives and millions of pissed-off Iraqis; we have good fighters, incredible technology and no intelligence on the insurgents whatsoever. Simple facts. Kennedy's statements have absolutely no effect on the insurgent's ability to create chaos in Iraq; Bush and Rumsfeld's criminally negligent war planning, on the other hand, do.
We're losing. It's obvious to the entire planet except for delusional fools such as yourself. Wake up.
SWR
not mullahs
MOO-lahs
Well, our President has made this real clear and has repeatedly said we are fighting the terrorists on their land instead of here.
My god the ignorance here is incredible!
I didnt just make that up.
It's been said by our President himself!
"OK. Now let's try to get an answer from someone who's not a complete retard."
- Mr. Garrison, South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut
Trolls and freepers? what kind of elvish talk is this?
Will it make it more or less difficult for Iraqi Police, Iraqi National Guard and the Iraqi Army, in addition to coalition forces and volunteer election workers to ensure security after the headlines made by Kennedy that the war is lost?
Let's set up the scene - a terrorist cell in sitting around in their darkened den, on the verge of giving up, when suddenly -
Ahmed (Bursting in from SL): "All praises to Allah, the giver of all that is good! The latest copy of the New York Times reports that Kennedy says the American occupation is a mistake!"
Hikmat (looking up from his laptop): "Then what that devil Glenn Reynolds says is true! At last we have something to counter the effectiveness of the cold pricklies all of those brave warbloggers have been sending us!"
Saddam: "And we were on the verge of giving up! Come, let us smite the foe with the sword of righteousness! And all those explosives we trucked out of Al-QaaQaa."
Ahmed: "Truly, those who tried to deny THAT took place did us a great service. Onward, then!"
(They grab an assortment of weapons and charge off SR)
In other words, no.
-
just because the President says something doesn't make it so
I've been working on getting a dog turd to spout Rush Limpdick talking points. I've got it up off the lawn and uttering consonants, but vowels are the sticking point. I've propped Mr. Poopy in a cardboard box in front of the TV with Fox News on all day and I feel like I'm making progress. Every few minutes when the bobbleheads start ass kissing the Dear Leader, Mr. P. perks right up and his corn starts to glow, and he mumbles what sounds like the name Bob Novak.
Anybody else had any luck with animated rightwing turds?
Well, our President has made this real clear and has repeatedly said we are fighting the terrorists on their land instead of here.
My god the ignorance here is incredible!
I didnt just make that up.
It's been said by our President himself!
An0nymous | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 8:26 pm
And he is... what's that phrase...? A fucking moron.
Sure, there are terrorists there -- now. We gave 'em plenty of frightened, angry, injured people -- the ones left after we bombed them flat -- to recruit. Which is why we have an "insurgency", which is, as much as you may hate to (or be unable to) admit it, is mostly the people of Iraq trying to kick us out.
I realize facts and rationality aren't in the standard troll modus operandi, but give 'em a try, why don'tcha?
pie was elected to the Senate? Cool.
You know, somehow I don't think that little Iraqi girl who was covered in her mother's blood is going to be doing jumping jacks over a fake election to elect a council to elect a leader. An election where the candidates were scared to be indentified. In other words, a sham. But even if it were a great and good and valid election, I don't imagine it would make that little girl too happy or leave her loving the Americans who did that to her mother. But maybe that's just me.
BitTorrent-using wrestling fans should go here, by the way.
Hm. I'm supposed to believe the President as a repository of truth, not, you know, actual facts.
So I was supposed to believe Nixon when he said I am not a crook. Never mind the evidence that indicated otherwise.
Got it.
Isn't this believing anything somebody in authority tells you, just because he sez so, one of the hallmarks of cult of personality?
New thread, peeps.
On the other hand, I think "bring it on" worked pretty well for him, Nick.
We just got back from Faux News, which is runing its typical violence-porn ("Election Alert", with grainy predatorial footage of some kind of square thing). How is Kennedy worse than this? Why is noone lamenting Faux's lack of faith in Precious Leader?
Ah, bigvic, if the Sin Eater had been in, you'd have known it. But then, it's not much talked about, outside the community. Enough whiskey tho? As if there were such a thing.
Well, I'd rather believe our president than some person with a funny pen name posting on a left wing web site.
... His words will be used by the insurgents and the Arab media to cause more damage, not less ..
The insurgents don't need Kennedy's words. They've got tons of explosives and weapons we left unguarded because we didn't send enough troops to secure them.
The Arab media don't need Kennedy's words either. They've got the lack of WMD, the photos from Abu Ghraib, and the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians to draw upon.
I used to read pwtorch and 1 wrestling a lot. Since my interest has waned, I don't as much anymore.
BlakNo1 | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 8:29 pm
I've been a fan since I was eight, and they've driven it right out of me. I completely forgot about the last three pay-per-views until the day after, and I keep forgetting that the frickin' Royal Rumble is tomorrow.
That said, TNA will work out just fine, if Jerry Jarrett will convince his son to let go of the damn belt for awhile.
Errol, thanks. Dems are damned if they do and damned if they don't, so they might as well do and at least make their supporters happy. Plus, you get to piss off Republicans at the same time. What's not to like?
It's been said by our President himself!
The great and powerful Oz has spoken!
Thanks, Blak. That looks like a good site -- bookmarked it right away.
Hi, Hecate!
Well, I'd rather believe our president than some person with a funny pen name posting on a left wing web site.
Tool.
Y'know, funny how it's okay for the thugs to disbelieve a President they don't like, but not do the same for one they don't like.
Y'know, trollies, Clinton said he didn't have relations with that woman, and you didn't believe him. You didn't take his words for it. He was lying, but nobody died from those lies. Still, you guys considered your disagreement with him "patriotic."
Bush said the terrorists were in Iraq. We didn't believe him. We didn't take his word for it. He was lying. People died over his lies. And we've been proven right, time and again, too. But we're the traitorous ones.
Hypocricy, thy name is Republican.
Ew-nay ead-thray.
Well said, LJ.
Cincinnati, 1959. Big-Time Wrestling with the Rinks Bargain City Kids.
Now there's history, my friend.
You know, what is remarkable about anonymous' ramblings is that I used to be able to "vocalize" the same words with vaginal farts.
-Liddy Dole
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we
are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
~ Theodore Roosevelt
Says it all doesn't it?
Well, I'd rather believe our president than some person with a funny pen name posting on a left wing web site.
"Napoleon is always right."
-Boxer, Animal Farm
"Well, I'd rather believe our president than some person with a funny pen name posting on a left wing web site."
Whoop! C'mon, now, everybody has got to admit that this really is quintessential! Prime!
Chuy, I feel like having tokens engraved with it, and use it in lieu of pennies.
Well, I'd rather believe our president than some person with a funny pen name posting on a left wing web site.
Then why are you here instead of masturbating with your George Bush Mission Accomplished Sex Kit the way all your friends are?
"just because the President says something doesn't mean it's so."
In sad point of fact, when this president says something is so, you can pretty much assume that it isn't.
I'd rather believe the President myself- unfortunately, George W Bush and the truth have at best a long distance relationship.
I don't need to read a leftwing internet site to know this- careful reading of a good daily newspaper will get you there as well.
spaghetti -- before I was born. You win.
OTOH, when one has pics, it can cut the obfuscating BS to a minimum.
One picture shows three men in their VMI-issued black shirts and gray pants giving the Nazi salute to the camera. Two are wearing homemade swastika armbands. One is wearing a small Hitler-style mustache.
Another picture shows two men dressed in tiaras, wings, lipstick and eye shadow. One is holding a wand, and both are wearing underpants and tank tops that read, "I a man in uniform."
There are also pictures of a man smeared head-to-toe in dark makeup and wearing a loin clot h, and a man with a bull's-eye drawn with tape on the rear of his pants.
I'm sure it was all in the spirit of good, clean Christian fun.
-
GWPDA,
Ohhhh, sin eater. That would be one obese sucker at this wake. Hell, they had an open bar with 3 bartenders and they could barely keep up.
Anyway, just tell me now. If, after the election, Iraqis and Americans continue to die at aroudn the same rate they are now, could you please let me know if we'll be allowed to point that out, or if we'll have to wait until after some other turning point like, say, the writing of the constitution...
Atrios | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 8:20 pm | #
No, no, no, Atrios because we'll still be in a (sotto vocce) "time of war." Unpatriotic to criticize the administration during a (even more sotto vocce) "time of war."
Now, if one were a cynical bitch, one might imagine that this policy would encourage administrations to remain constantly in a (cynical bithc voice) TIME OF FUCKING WAR, but that would be mean. Or Orwellian, or something.
Remarks by the President and United Nations
July 14, 2003
The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/r...20030714-
3.html
"we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in"
Bush: Saddam has 48 hours to leave Iraq
U.N. personnel, including about 60 weapons inspectors, 75 support staff and nearly 200 humanitarian workers, began leaving Iraq early Tuesday.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/me.../sprj.irq.main/
"did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely"
President Bush Discusses Iraq Report
October 7, 2004
The Duelfer report showed that Saddam was systematically gaming the system, using the U.N. oil-for-food program to try to influence countries and companies in an effort to undermine sanctions. He was doing so with the intent of restarting his weapons program, once the world looked away.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/r...20041007-
6.html
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
Old Teddy's probably rolling over in his grave these days.
Erm...I thought the joke went "Therefore, a ham sandwich is better than sex."
Fuck. You're right. It's not my fault: I've only got turkey in the fridge and my wife's away.
So then I guess the real conclusion would be "A turkey sandwich is better than sex."
God is Live
Live is Evil Spelled Backward
Therefore, God is Evil.
Okay, I'm outta here. Later!
watertiger | Email | Homepage | 01.29.05 - 7:00 pm | #
I never even thought about live spelled backwords being evil.
Crrrazy!... the things I learn here!
Well, I'd rather believe our president than some person with a funny pen name posting on a left wing web site.
Yes, those are your only choices. No other sources of information exist on the Internets or elsewhere.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we
are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
~ Theodore Roosevelt
Maybe Ted Kennedy should have quoted TR instead of implying the war was lost 2 days before the Iraqi elections.
And if you notice in the same post where I said Ted Kennedy was abhorent in his rhetoric, I also criticized the president. So that fallacious argument does not play. Sorry, try spinning again.
And the freedom of criticism Theodore Roosevelt talks about also applies to congressional leadership.
OMG, the trolls are getting their last licks in before the great election.
But take heart, trollz. Once it's over, you get to blame Allawi and company (or the next victims) for failing to bring democracy to the great state of Iraq.
The spinach gnocchi were fab. Making sure the spinach was dry and chilling the mixture was the key to success.
Besides, Reggiano Parmesan makes everything taste good, doesn't it?
The spinach gnocchi were fab. Making sure the spinach was dry and chilling the mixture was the key to success.
Besides, Reggiano Parmesan makes everything taste good, doesn't it?
pie
pie, darling, the only dish you serve well is baloney.
"The insurgents don't need Kennedy's words. They've got tons of explosives and weapons we left unguarded because we didn't send enough troops to secure them."
But use them they did. On the day before Iraqi elections.
"The Arab media don't need Kennedy's words either. They've got the lack of WMD, the photos from Abu Ghraib, and the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians to draw upon."
But yet they used his words to discredit the elections and the coalition the day before the election. That will probably have a negative effect on voter turnout and increase attacks on voters. And this is a member of the Democratic leadership? And you blame me for pointing this out?
"They've got the lack of WMD"
Yes, a major mistake by the administration.
"the photos from Abu Ghraib"
Who are currently facing jail time. And thanks to the mainstream and Arab media for putting that in context to Abu Ghariab under Saddam. I never even read one story talk about the intensity of attacks on the prison during the period in question. Or have you already forgot there were a half dozen mortar attacks on the prison, including one that killed 22 Iraqi prisoners. Nothing to see here, move along. Whatever lies work.
"and the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians to draw upon"
Who is killing the innocent civilians? Ask BBC about this, I see they just had to clarify a report after reflexively jumping on the Americans are the root of all evil justification.
Bash Bush, bash the war, even bash the elections if you want. Just be honest and state the facts. And if you mention Michael Moore, it would be good for a laugh.
Kennedy said "Fukuyama." Has anybody looked into the FCC implications of this?
But yet they used his words to discredit the elections
Today, I've read editorials from Arab nations posted by the BBC. Ya think people in those countries are reading what Kennedy has to say?
Go away. You're making a fool of yourself.
Even more disturbing than his Orwellian selective quotations is this comment:
"We're losing. It's obvious to the entire planet except for delusional fools such as yourself. Wake up.
Bobo"
There you have it. Your Democratic party leadership nomination will be in the mail shortly.
But didnt Atrios ask the question, what was wrong with Ted's speech? I dont know what is wrong with it Atrios, everyone in here believed him.
I guess whatever Michael Moore says must be true. My apologies for being a bad Democrat.
from instapundit:
MONKEYS WILL PAY TO SEE MONKEY PORN: And they're into "celebrity gossip," too:
The rhesus macaque monkeys also splurged on photos of top-dog counterparts, the high-ranking primates. . . . The scientists actually had to pay these guys, in the form of extra juice, to get them to look at images of lower-ranking monkeys.
I guess that's why Oliver, Max and Duncan blog about InstaPundit so much more than the reverse . . . .
An0nymous, you backed the wrong horse.
Too bad for you.
Of course, you had nothing to lose except your credibility.
Anonymous. hahahahahaha!!!!
Mark Dayton redeemed Minn.'s honor.
or if we'll have to wait until after some other turning point like, say, the writing of the constitution...
Atrios
With our media anything can stand in for another turning point. I can imagaine them saying, "With Michael Jackson's conviction everything has changed. We must invade Iran."
i am at my studio zone and in the other room the kid is singing the following song line;
fuck george bush
fuck george bush
fuck george bush
and his son
just wanted to share that...
.
The bedrock principle of the American legal system is that a vigorous debate between two opposing sides (plantiff/prosecutor & defendent) generally allows thinking people (a jury) to reasonably acheive consensus on the truth.
Odd, then, that a law professor from Tennessee can become so unhinged at the prospect of a large groups of Americans who don't share his beliefs.
Poor Glenn Reynolds is intellectually incapable of engaging in a substantive debate with the people with whom he disagrees -- whom he derisively terms "the left" (as if that is a bad thing).
Instead, he stoops low into the mud and avoids substance, and directs words like "traitorus" "self-hatred" and "idiocy" at his opponents because he is so offended by those Democrats of principle would dare to speak of the multiple failures of the Iraqi adventure.
So intimidated by the opposing point of view is Glenn, that one wonders if the good "lawyer" would become unhinged in a courtroom should a presiding judge dare to allow opposing counsel to present a case.
What a sad little man....
An0nymous, "voted for Clinton twice".
Um,hum. I see.
On you, anus.
Unless you want to keep the troops in Iraq until 3005, nuke some 'rabs and take it to Syria and Iran you're a traitorfifthcolumnistmassachusettsliberaljanefonda
nottakingthewaronterrorseriouslyhatethetroopshatea
mericasecularhumanistgayloveraffirmativeactionopen
bordersislamofascistspongebobabortionondemandtokyo
roseappeasernevillechamberlainhippy
According to An0n's logic, if Ted hadn't made that speech, the Iraqis wouldn't have known they won.
Damn you Ted!
Shorter An0n: We lost the Iraq War because Ted Kennedy didn't cheer loud enough.
"Anon? (Damn it, he has me doing it now!) When do you suggest that the American people be told that their leader is charleton and fool and that his exercise in futility is futile?"
I have many problems with the Bush Administration. Just state them honestly and back them up. Barbara Boxers rants in front of the panel, Ted Kennedy's speech in front of my brothers former boss, Michael Moore comparing the insurgents chopping off the heads of aid workers to American revolutionaries, this is bullshit.
I have worked with 12 year olds that could dissect the logical fallacies and flat out falsehoods in those lines of rhetoric. And every time they are used, they discredit any serious individuals who take pains to base their opposition on facts.
"If enough people (in the administration) had the patriotism to tell this fool that he was being a fool, then we could have saved everyone the problems that he created by his pigheaded stupidity."
I would not tell him that he is a fool to his face. But I will tell them that he has made far too many errors, and severely underestimated one of the greatest undertakings this country has been a part of. Feel free to point me to the Arab historical context for a Democratic country that did not opress minorities, or take part in a laundry list of attrocities against its own people.
The best description of my position of the war came from an article from Turkey. The author asked a Kurdish taxi driver if he was for or against the war.
The taxi driver said he was against the war.
How could that be, Saddam has massacred your people? The author wrote. The taxi driver said he was against the war because it would be too hard.
There are dozens of tribal factions with disputes that span borders and ethnicities that go back centuries. He said that Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia would do whatever it takes to destabilize the Iraqi government the coalition would try to set up. And he said terrorists would use any deaths in Iraq as a recruiting tool up and down the Arab penninsula.
He nailed it for me. The war on Iraq would be too hard, and this administration severely underestimated what it would take to win.
But both of those facts does not make it an unjust, illegal or illegitimate war.
Saddam worked the UN resolutions to the point that they became meaningless. Not only did he not abide by the Safwan peace agreement, he got the coalition to agree to allow him to use military helicopters. Which he promptly used to massacre Kurds in the North and Shiites in the South. Saddam turned the UN-oil-for-food program into his personal ATM machine, and spent billions to upgrade his military. He also used smuggled oil profits to set up the financial wherewithal for the insurgency to flurish in case of an invasion. He actively supporting terrorism in Israel and elsewhere, both financially and otherwise. And finally, he attacked forces guarding the Southern and Northern no-fly zones over 100 times. The resul
Got cut off on the above post.
I was just going to add that it cost billions to keep the troops and equipment in place while we waited for Saddam to abide by UNSC resolutions.
An0nymous, blah, blah, bla, Kennedy, Saddam, elections, blah, blah, blah.
You're melting.
Your additions are subtractions, twit.
An0n: Well, I'd rather believe our president than some person with a funny pen name posting on a left wing web site.
I'd rather believe in the Publishers' Sweepstakes letter in my mailbox than my bank statement.
"According to An0n's logic, if Ted hadn't made that speech, the Iraqis wouldn't have known they won." - scottxyz
Actually that would be using Barbara Boxer logic.
OT- now playing at yahoo
"The Birth of an Auction"
yep lets export a little more USA
Bids Start on KKK Robes at Mich. Auction
By DAVID EGGERT, Associated Press Writer
HOWELL, Mich. - A Ku Klux Klan knife sold for $400 and a sweat shirt drew a $15 bid Saturday during an auction of KKK robes and other paraphernalia that critics have blasted as insensitive.
Auctioneer Gary Gray said a steady stream of people visited the auction house in Howell, about 55 miles west of Detroit, in the hours leading up to the auction. He planned to sell seven KKK robes and items including buttons, books, movies and a lantern.
An0nymous, blah, blah, bla, Kennedy, Saddam, elections, blah, blah, blah.
You're melting.
pie
===========
Wow, you really addressed all his points there, pie. Typical Eschatonian response to a repost that you can't rebut.....mock it like a fourth grader.
Not that anyone in here actually cares about the Iraqi elections or their freedom, but here are updates on the election from Iraqis:
http://reports.friendsofdemocracy.info/
An0n: Well, I'd rather believe our president than some person with a funny pen name posting on a left wing web site.
Why? The website has a better track record for accuracy.
Not that anyone in here actually cares about the Iraqi elections or their freedom, but here are updates on the election from Iraqis:
http://reports.friendsofdemocracy.info/
Hell ... saddam has told fewer lies than bush.
An0nymous, getting smaller.
Yeah, I read about the KKK auction, focus.
Fucking thugs.
They vote Republican.
pie, have you been checked for Alzheimer's yet?
I'm embarassed for you.
Go to bed.
www.friendsofdemocracy.com
How sweet.
What does it mean to you?
Wow, you really addressed all his points there, pie. Typical Eschatonian response to a repost that you can't rebut.....mock it like a fourth grader.
Avestus
We need to cut grandma a little slack.
She's drooling on herself as we speak.
Poor thing.
An0n: The war on Iraq would be too hard, and this administration severely underestimated what it would take to win.
But both of those facts does not make it an unjust, illegal or illegitimate war.
So... You've admitted that the Administration screwed up - and now we're quibbling over semantics.
Would you mind if we (or Mr. Kennedy) called this war unnecessary, ill-advised or just plain lost?
I was just going to add that it cost billions to keep the troops and equipment in place while we waited for Saddam to abide by UNSC resolutions.
An0nymous
And how much has it cost to rush into an invasion before the inspections were finished? In blood. After you answer that we can talk about the infinitely less important money.
That is if you can understand the difference.
Avestuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z z z z z.
You'd think with so many good reasons to remove saddam, this corrupt administration wouldn't have had to lie through their teeth about it.
... but there you go. hawks, hacks, and profiteers will say whatever they need to in order to sell this farce of an atrocity to average american suckers.
Yes the administration screwed up, no the war is not lost.
Not a really hard point to figure out, but for the Democratic leadership, Atrios or Kos it might as well be written down in Nepali.
I'm embarassed for you.
I'm embarrassed that you can't spell correctly and have no knowledge of history.
Really, you're a stupid boy.
I was just going to add that it cost billions to keep the troops and equipment in place while we waited for Saddam to abide by UNSC resolutions.
An0nymous
And yet, somehow, Clinton was able to pay for it AND run up the largets surplus in history. Maybe bush needs his cock sucked by some white trash ... it may improve his financial instincts.
Yes the administration screwed up, no the war is not lost.
If you say it just three more times, it becomes true.
How cute, Avestus. You change names more often than your underwear, which is often enough.
You lose.
Game over.
How cute, Avestus. You change names more often than your underwear, which is often enough.
You lose.
Game over.
pie
--------------
ROFLMAO!!! Yep, reasoned like a fourth grader =D
pie, it's bedtime for you. Put your teeth away and turn off the lights.
I'm sorry, tell the nurse to put your teeth away and turn off the lights.
It really is sad to see you waste the little time you have left.
How cute, Avestus. You change names more often than your underwear, which is often enough.
Does avestus change his underwear? I hear he'd be over in iraq right now if he didn't have to walk around in his own filth and ejaculate.
i like trolling the dumpsters outside of abortion clinics. malformed fetuses are so rich and tasty
squish squish ...
"And how much has it cost to rush into an invasion before the inspections were finished? In blood. After you answer that we can talk about the infinitely less important money." - EPT
1. Saddam never allowed the inspectors to do their job. That was one of the major reasons France, Germany, Britian, Australia, and the UN all thought he still had WMDs.
2. Saddam was responsible for the murder of a conservative estimate would be between 250-400,000 Iraqis. There are hundreds of thousands that are still missing, that number shocked me when I first heard it. I thought they would have been included in the first figure. Saddam was responsible for two wars which killed over a million people. He gassed his own, and set up institutionalized rape/torture to the point that it became routine for a large portion of the population.
I would like to think I have a good grasp on what the soldiers are fighting for, because I have spoken to many.
If you want to know what they are dying for, they are dying to help a country out from under the yoke of a murderous regieme that raped/murdered and tortured at will for close to 30 years.
"That is if you can understand the difference." - EPT
I think you smearing what is being accomplished as for profit is abhorent instead of being insightful or patriotic with your criticism. That is, if you can understand the difference.
Avestus, no date tonight?
Can't imagine why.
I never much minded Saddam when Reagan was president and arming him, though.
Vale, non ave.
If you want to know what they are dying for, they are dying to help a country...
That Bush invaded for no reason.
Stop with the platitudes.
Thousands of people have died so that the Bushies could get rich.
This never had anything to do with goodness and light.
I'm still kind of proud of "On you, anus."
pie, you're embarrassing your grandkids.
Go to bed.
Shoo.
Nor do I particularly care about the Sudan, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, or Uzbekistan. I'm easily controlled. I pay attention only to where I'm told.
If you want to know what they are dying for, they are dying to help a country.
Notice the word THEY in this sentence.
weed eater, thanks for sharing.
Heh heh. Old people are funny. Old, feeble people. Like that fuck Reagan. What a cunt he was.
What about Rwanda, An0n? Me, I thought that one was pretty funny. All them niggers killing each other.
1. Saddam never allowed the inspectors to do their job. That was one of the major reasons France, Germany, Britian, Australia, and the UN all thought he still had WMDs.
How is that? Because the inspectors never found weapons? The inspectors never found anything because there was nothing to find, as evidenced by the dramatic distancing away from wmds as the causus belli for invasion.
AMERICA didn't let the inspectors do their job, not saddam. AMERICA rushed them, tried to plant words in their mouth, called them liars for not finding anything, and rushed them out of Iraq when they attacked.
2. Saddam was responsible for the murder of a conservative estimate would be between 250-400,000 Iraqis. There are hundreds of thousands that are still missing, that number shocked me when I first heard it.
Prove it ... don't pull numbers from your ass, and don't throw a body count about people you knew nothing and cared nothing for until you were told to. America has ZERO moral authority or credibility in Iraq. Those body counts are OUR legacy to the iraqis ... the only thing we ever exported to them, OUR dictators and OUR sanctions.
Jesus fucking christ ... if the fascists running reagan's admin had listened to the lefties, then we would never have fucking aided and abetted saddam's regime in the first place.
He gassed his own, and set up institutionalized rape/torture to the point that it became routine for a large portion of the population.
and now, so have our troops. congratulations ... we remove saddam, we become saddam ourselves, and then we leave iraq at the hands of some other thug as bad as saddam.
who do you think you're kidding, you worthless git? this admin never cared about the plight of the iraqis, and neither do you.
Yes the administration screwed up, no the war is not lost.
If you say it just three more times, it becomes true.
Yes the administration screwed up, no the war is not lost.
Yes the administration screwed up, no the war is not lost.
Yes the administration screwed up, no the war is not lost.
Liar, it still hasn't come true.
I just ate a cheese sandwich.
Typical Eschatonian response to a repost that you can't rebut.....mock it like a fourth grader.
Avestus
We need to cut grandma a little slack.
She's drooling on herself as we speak.
Poor thing.
joan nc
Yeah, Avetus, save your strength, hun.
Heh heh. Old people are funny. Old, feeble people. Like that fuck Reagan. What a cunt he was.
jamie
pie, wouldn't your grandkids be ashamed to see you now?
Are you namestealing or can't you remember who you are?
Understandable, considering your age.
Keep the trolls busy here!
The more time they waste here, the less time they have to mail out anthrax or pipebombs.
Are you namestealing or can't you remember who you are?
Understandable, considering your age.
jamie
She's channeling reagan's senile ghost.
I'm having trouble keeping track, isn't Avestus the troll who claimed to be on active duty in some kind of intellegence unit in, was it eastern Europe or western Asia?
Who jamie is is fairly apparent.
embarrassing.
Your spelling is embarrassing.
I don't have grandchildren, but you need a mother.
pie, You need your butt kicked.
Kennedy admits: "The elections in Iraq this weekend provide an opportunity for a fresh and honest approach." So dumb-ass, when was that gonna happen under baby killer Saddam?
Like a dog returning to it's own vomit
Avestus, its, not it's.
I don't have grandchildren
pie
Oh, you poor thing, you have forgotten them.
Old age is a bitch, huh?
Kennedy admits: "The elections in Iraq this weekend provide an opportunity for a fresh and honest approach." So dumb-ass, when was that gonna happen under baby killer Saddam?
Right1
He would have killed fewer babies if you hadn't sold him the means. ...
Saddam killed babies because Reagan told him to.