I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Who's on Frist?
But but but Time Magazine made Powerline "Blog Of The Year"!
OOPS! Another wanker steps on his wanker.
Oh, yeah. Fuck Bush.
Fuck. That's some story.
OT: Lizard (LGF) Wanker Of The Day:
"Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades"
Cute name, huh? This sanctimonius little prick is one of Charles 'frequent posters', who cut-n-pastes long weather reports onto LGF (good, wasting bandwith). Like all the other Lizards, he never has anything remotely original to say, but nods along with all the other little lizards as Charles beats the hate-Muslim drum, day after day.
Should you start having a wanker of the hour rather than just a wanker a day? Does this wanker replace the previous WOTD? Does this wanker rise to the level of a WOTD?
Oh, yeah. Fuck Bush. Double duck the Fodgers.
bob,
where in cleveland?
I grew up in Brecksville, relatives in Lakewood, Parma...
went to akron U...
Steve,
Currently Avon Lake.
Grew up in Shaker Hts. and Aurora. Moved back in '97 from Eugene, OR.
Oh hell, We should just give up: move our asses to the nearest Pentacostal Church and beg forgiveness from the Lord of hate. Then we call go to debtor's prison to avoid making our financial institutions even mildly responsible for their own heinous activities. Then we can declare war on EVERYONE. Hell, I have had enough of Canadians with their logic and the Mexicans with their hubris: don't they know that North America belongs to God? Then we can all wear our uniforms that will tell the police what class we are in so that they know whether to arrest us and throw us in jail or simply pat our hands and say,"Don't do that." Then we can make our televisions two way communications machines so that the neighborhood watch can see what is going on in our homes and we can ban all public education and dictate how many children we must have -- more if you are white, none if you are not. Then we amend the Constitution to make it possible to . . . Hell, it is coming, people . . .
Where did all these wankers come from?
Those aren't wankers, they are Nazis.
Timothy McVeigh was a Muslim, but unless you visit the right wing blogs you wouldn't know this.
"Wank, Wank, Wank...
The boys go mar-ching!!"
-- MASH
Double duck the Fodgers.
Yes!!!
So little time.
All it will take to make Michelle Malkin switch sides is for someone to place a perfectly made call and say that Michelle is actually Indonesian.
They're all muslim down there aren't they?
MYOB'
.
I hereby nominate George W. Bush as wanker of the millenium. He'll win in a (cake) walk.
So little time.
MisterX
So many wankers...
This brings to mind the Rawandan genocide. It was fueled by racism hate radio.
Does someone have to die before Michele Malkin will shut-up?
OT, but here's Marshall on Tipsy McStagger's latest poll-driven lies...
Does someone have to die before Michele Malkin will shut-up?
Preferably Michele Malkin.
Sorry, Ted! I'm a bad, bad, hostile liberal, I am.
Three days ago, thanks to the huuuge ozone hole over the Arctic, it was -110.
Now it is snowing all over the planet.
90 injured, transport snarled in snowfall
The Asahi Shimbun
People hurry their ways to their offices in a heavy snow in Tokyo's Minato Ward in Friday morning.
With much of the Kanto region carpeted in white Friday, scores of people injured themselves in falls.
It was the heaviest snowfall of the season for the Tokyo area, officials said.
The snow played havoc with train and plane services.
Thousands of people were stranded at Tokyo's Haneda airport.
About 90 people were injured, mostly after losing their footing.
Re: Cleveland
my family moved to Lakewood in 1950, returned to New Mexico in 1960.
my dad used to like to fish, and we frequently went down to the lake for that purpose...i clearly recall seeing fish with oozing lesions and other biological defects from the earliest days.
i contracted rheumatic fever (and probably polio, too) either from Lake Erie or from the rivers flowing into it, especially the Rocky River, which was little better than an open sewer....
Not a wanker - Here's your weekly Greeley
DWD--you're wrong. Hell isn't coming. It's here.
It seems that in order to have validity, 'christianity' appears to require persecution of its members. Without it, it doesn't appear to have a reason to exist.
How is a raven like a writing-desk?
.
Is "wanker" rapidly becoming our equivalent of "moonbat?"
Hey! Gotta love those Republicans. They've been so busy finding room for those blacks and Latinos, it's comforting to know they can still take time out to denigrate and demean Native Americans:
http://lonestartimes.com/index.php?p=204
Sallyh,
I think that was my point. (sigh)I cannot believe that people are such regimented sheep. Hell, the time has past for us to take to the streets: now there are those who are saying that it will not do any good. Well, I guess that means there is no hope whatsoever and America is simply dead. Just waiting for the flies and creatures of the night to eat the bloated body.
I was watching Law & Order SVU this one time, and in the one episode a child from Nigeria was killed in New York. A fictionally perverted, fictionally cunning man used this fictional boy and made his fictional murder look like a ritual sacrifice of an obscure (fictional?) minority religion. The fictional Det. Odafin Tutuola (Ice-T), et al. get their man and he's fictionally put away forever.
(Upon investigation today, I see that unfortunately, it's "ripped from the headlines" out of the UK. Damn.)
Even as an Evangelical myself, I had only heard of the case tangentially. Reading over the articles on the Internet converning the case (from several ponts of view), I can see L&O ripping this story as well. Imagine: two conflicting motivations for the crime, both emotionally charged to the point as to cause reasonable doubt. Will there be a connection between those accused of performing the act and those bent on silencing the Evangelical? Or is there a hidden past? Tune in at 10/9 Central, folks. We'll have it wrapped up in an hour.
My point, if I have one (I'm not sure) is that only on L&O does an arrest equal a conviction, and even then it's iffy. We don't know how this plays out. The aforementioned "wankers" neglect this and we all would be wise to reserve judgement. And in the end, no matter what is decided or whether the story appears at 7/6 Central on the news or at 10/9 Central on L&O, the response should be the same.
Damn.
RE: Indonesia -- Isn't it ironic that Bush is calling for Assad to pull his troops out of Lebanon even as Bush is invading Indonesia with 13,000-plus US troops?
What, you didn't know Bush was doing this? Gee, it wouldn't be because the GOP/Media Axis was too busy demonizing Ward Churchill and Eason Jordan to pay attention now, would it?
Does someone have to die before Michele Malkin will shut-up?
If it weren't her, it would only encourage her to be more strident and disconnected from reality.
As for the Indonesians, Wolfowitz is restoring ties to the Indonesian military, who have a human rights record that would make the Colombians and Israelis blush.
But Indonesia is finally hitting back at the criticism on terror by the US and Australia. This is how the US treats allies in the war on terror
The US doesn't want judicial independence or fair trials abroad. Kangaroo courts for the world (except the one in The Hague and it'll be ostracised).
WoodyGsGuitar(aka konopelli,
It's much cleaner these days. People actually fly fish the Rocky River now.
www.clemetparks.com
There's a war on Christians in New Jersey
It's illeberal to refute that there is a war on Christians in NJ
These idiots should stay away from keyboards for the same reason drunks need to be steered away from bars: the results are never pretty, and innocent people may end up getting hurt.
Now that's a money shot.
Bryan,
You say you are an Evangelical?
Then you believe:
Hatred of all people except the chosen
Hatred of all poor people
Hatred of anyone of a different religion
Hatred of anyone who cares for the environment
Hatred of anyone who believes that a woman's body is her own
Hatred of anyone who can read
Hatred of anyone who can think
Hatred of all
Your God is a jealous God who delivers punishment to anyone not of your peculiar faith, right?
(I would be very careful here and re-read Matthew 25 again. How are you going to explain your sins to the Lord of Hosts?)
It's the Michael Moore/ Moveon.org crowd that is causing the war on Christians in New Jersey
...Tipsy McStagger's latest poll-driven lies.
Our Dear Leader cannot lie.
And even if he were 'lying', it's not 'lying', it's 'serving a Higher Truth'.
Praise Jesus!
powerline is big on perpetuation the myth that it was a Muslim hate crime. No wonder those mini-minds don't allow comments on their posts. What a bunch of neo-facist racists.
Grand Moff Texan:
"They both produce a few notes, all very flat, and are almost never turned the wrong way front."
The US doesn't want judicial independence or fair trials abroad. Kangaroo courts for the world (except the one in The Hague and it'll be ostracised).
Tom - Daai Tou Laam
This is the USA under Dear Leader, GWB. He has trashed the good name of America, made a mockery of truth and justice and calls his critics Un-American. Farce doesn't get and richer than this.
Hmmmm no response from Bryan- the Evangelical. Figures. Probably praying for my soul. (to be damned eternally)
i've actually met a number of Evangelicals who are deeply troubled by the hijacking of the term. These are people who are deeply concerned with social justice in the form of eliminating poverty, keeping government and citizenry honest, and separating church and state. To them, voting for Bush would have constituted an unconscionable act.
The wackfundies are under the gun.
Librul Christians even join the fun.
They're constantly "bashed,"
And verbally trashed.
A gay sponge might endanger their son.
powerline is big on perpetuation the myth that it was a Muslim hate crime. No wonder those mini-minds don't allow comments on their posts. What a bunch of neo-facist racists.
It's a coverup by the liberal police department
Sallyh,
Then where in the hell are they?
I still consider myself (marginally) a Christian. These people preaching hate in the name of the Prince of Peace are an anathema to Christian thought: but here they are preaching hatred and practicing a lust for war everywhere you go.
No, I do not believe in their peaceful intentions any more than I believe in the Tooth Fairy or the MSM.
It's much cleaner these days. People actually fly fish the Rocky River now.
www.clemetparks.com
Cleveland Bob
Never tried to catch flies in the river...gotta be pretty big critters even to take a line...whatcha use for bait?
Atrios posts cats, some post dogs...
I post the Saturday Morning Beauty
Yeah, and it turned out to be the non-Muslim neighbor down the street.
But how many times are we going to see and hear the meme that, "Muzzies kilt a Christian family in NJ?" (Wingnuts, like the Bourbon kings of France, learn nothing and forget nothing.) If I had a dime for each occurence, I predict i'd be so rich that the Rethugs would be sucking up to me.
my various duties call...a lot of time in movieland this week has necessitated postponing much to the weekend which, as i am sure some of you noticed, has arrived...
later, beloved moonbats...
DWD
Since you are marginal.....
It's time to get with the winning team.
It's time to worship Ba'al.
God hates New Jersey
Evening Ralph,
Evening Sam.
(If we have time later, we can argue to our heart's content about the meaning of protests in the sixties and seventies - not that it will make much difference)
DWD,
I mentioned my religious beliefs to indicate that I have an ear to the ground, you might say, to issues of actual (not perceived "woe is us") anti-Christian persecution to which others in the progressive movement may not be privy. And this issue didn't come across my screen until today, just sayin'.
I respect the passion of your post, and am not attempting to dissuade you from your own beliefs. I might point out that I really harbored
Hatred of all poor people
Hatred of anyone of a different religion
Hatred of anyone who cares for the environment
Hatred of anyone who can read
Hatred of anyone who can think
Hatred of all
Then my allegiance and membership in the Democratic party would be awful hard to explain whenever I converse with my God, as I know Him. It certainly is hard to explain to His other followers, my fellow congregants who sip the GOP Kool-Aid with regularity. But explain I will, as the chances arise.
Ba'al, I have been offering sacrifices here in Michigan. (One can never be too careful with deities) Just takes a while for the aromas to waft against the prevailing winds.
Watch out DWD - Elaine will get on your case for feeding.
Is "wanker" rapidly becoming our equivalent of "moonbat?"
An Enquiring Mind
Nah. Strictly Reality-Based. Moonbat is an insult, Wanker is a description.
Speaking of fundie nutjobs, how did Ellen Sauerbrey ever get the position of delegate at the UN Women's Conference--oh wait, she's a nutjob.
The NY Times article is here:
Catcalls and Jeers for US Delegate
And to read the bitch's positions, read here:
Warning: Idiot Blathering Ahead
No, I do not believe in their peaceful intentions any more than I believe in the Tooth Fairy or the MSM.
I don't either. History is rotten with examples of these evil fundies practicing hate in the name of the lord. It's only a matter of time before their extremism is exposed and they are shamed back into going *underground* where they belong.
What happens if the Judge in Chicagos family were murdered by someone other then the W's?
Will the lefty blogs apologise?
I am so sick of xians claiming that they're being "persecuted" when they run the whole damn country. They just absolutely orgasm over feeling persecuted. It would be merely pathetic if they weren't so goddamn busy actually persecuting everybody else.
Shame on whoever killed that family and for whatever reason. I hope they've caught the people who did it and that those people spend the rest of their lives in jail.
DWD--some of them are living quietly in my neighborhood 
None would condemn me for making offerings to Ba'al.
Not once have they preached to me. They speak of their church affiliation, but they don't preach.
Bryan,
Actions speak louder than words. I think, if I remember correctly, God judges actions: not words. " When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I prepare a lovely offering of Ellen Sauerbrey to Ba'al. I hope the aroma will be pleasing.
sallyh - that was idiotic blathering.
Oy.
The situation in New Jersey reminds me of nothing so much as the Ok City bombing - remember when everyone was looking for a brown person who just had to be responsible, and it turned out to be a fair-haired boy, in more ways than one?
Yeah, we're not racists; we don't discriminate against people who aren't christians.
Moonbat is an insult
It's not much of an insult. It's kinda cute.
It's only a matter of time before their extremism is exposed and they are shamed back into going *underground* where they belong.
================================
Oh good lord, I have been waiting over five years. It aint happening. I pray every day, but nothing seems to bring these people down.
QL in NY,
I was raised in the church: but my church did not preach hatred: they taught tolerance. They did not believe that killing was okay as long as the people you are killing are not Christians.
I do not feed trolls, I am just letting my righteous indignation at their usurptation of the God of Love for their Devil's work.
I am a Pascal Christian, btw. Blaise Pascal argued that whether or not the Christian God is real: living as a Christian is a good way to live so why take chances. I try everyday to live my life for love and kindness. I preach it endlessly to my children. I believe that we are all equal and entitled to the same priviledges and responsibilities. So, I do not believe I am feeding the trolls, just reminding them that when Judgement Day comes, they will have to explain their actions.
AAAAHHHH HELP! There's a new pikture of thet evil Zakowri demon on the CNN homepage. I just know he's gonna come to our town from Iraq and rape and then eat our little cristian babies. and them libruls are gunna just let him in. I'm reeeeeely ascared.
HELP ME PRESIDENT BUSH, SAVE US!!!
Tena--well, I did insert a disclaimer
OT -- any word on whether the Italian reporter, Sregena, is out of Iraq? I am so glad she lived -- and I hope she REPORTS and REPORTS and REPORTS on what really happened... and continues to happen in Mess=o'-potamia. I hope Italy gives Nicola Caripali the biggest hero's funeral, covered by the media like Princess Di's funeral. They won't, but they should. Great international tragedy.
I have to go to the vet...my cat needs to be put down. She is very old and something, maybe a stroke, happened in the last few days... she is dying. Small domestic tragedy... but devastating nonetheless.
powerline is big on perpetuation the myth that it was a Muslim hate crime. No wonder those mini-minds don't allow comments on their posts. What a bunch of neo-facist racists.
Robb | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 12:01 pm | #
Charles Johnson the ponytailed fuck has also been promoting this, with his idiot 'lizards', the scum of the internets.
Johnson really ought to be careful. He lives right next to a huge Saudi mosque. Now, just to be clear, I wish no violence on anyone. But if the "Muzzies" are everything he claims they are, he's either very brave or very stupid. Or maybe he doesn't believe his filthy hate-speech and is just 'in it' for the money. (Someone is funding LGF quite generously).
I am out of here for a while. Hope your day is a good one and you do not find the foul place I seem to have landed in. . . .
It's not much of an insult. It's kinda cute.
Another Moonbat Bruce
Well, I din' say it was a particularly effective one...
Fuck intolerence and fuck the nutjobs who spread it. How ironic that they use false reports of intolerent actions towards "Christians" to spead their own bigotry....
oh, dh, I'm so sorry. And I hope you're right about the funeral--and the truth.
Later, DWD.
DWD--many of the great minds in mathematics were deeply spiritual people. I think that's the source of my respect.
Some of us do not consider ourselves 'christian,' but we are still doing our level best to apply the principles of good in our lives. In the name of full disclosure, I'm deeply agnostic.
Drunken Hausfrau,
I am sorry to hear about your pet. It is devastating. I had to put my dog down fifteen years ago and still miss her. Best wishes.
drunken hausfrau - oh, I'm so sorry about your cat. I've had to do that for two of mine and it's so hard.
It will be alright - both times it hurt me terribly, but both cats seemed to understand and were very peaceful.
In the end it's always the kindest thing you can do and consequently one of the hardest.
More fun with Ann Coulter.
Drunken Hausfrau--my condolences to you. You know, when I had to do it for my cats, it was as if they knew it was time to go, and they were very peaceful about it. I, however, cried buckets.
May all of you find peace as your cat crosses the Rainbow Bridge.
Wow, great column by George Will today:
March 4, 2005 -- IN 1967 Lyndon Johnson added yet another piece to the jigsaw puzzle of national perfection: The Corporation for Public Broadcasting was born. Public television was a dubious idea even when concocted as a filigree on the Great Society. Why should government subsidize the production and distribution of entertainment and, even worse, journalism? Is it government's duty to address all cultural shortages?
sallyh - I'm deeply agnostic, as well. So many christians seem to think that agnostics have no moral framework in their lives. Heads up, fundies: religion is not the foundation for all moral principles.
Not by a long shot.
I am so sick of xians claiming that they're being "persecuted" when they run the whole damn country. They just absolutely orgasm over feeling persecuted. It would be merely pathetic if they weren't so goddamn busy actually persecuting everybody else.
Word up, sister.
Wow, great column by George Will today:
Sounds like the typical barely undead George Will column.
What happens if the Judge in Chicagos family were murdered by someone other then the W's?
Then the perps will be arrested, I suppose....
DH,
Awww, hell. So sorry to hear about your cat. Really.
Sregena is back in Italy and she IS talking. Her husband is too and Berlusconi is getting major hell about having 3,000 troops in Iraq. There was a public celebration planned for the journalist, but now it's expected to turn into huge protests.
Sregena is back in Italy and she IS talking.
Do you know what she's saying bigvic? Somehow that "speeding through the checkpoint" story sounds a little too pat.
If the poor, pathetic, abused Christians in this country would trypracticing the teachings of Jesus instead of blubbering all the time, we'd be in pretty good shape.
BTW, Reporters Without Borders is calling for a UN investigation into the shooting of the Sregena convoy.
morning, freethinkers. DH- so sorry to hear of your loss.
bigvic- got a link?
Yeah, I'm very sorry to hear about your cat too, DH. I know how it feels - like your guts have been torn out. Peace to you.....
Thank you all... the Friday cat blogging is one of my weekly treats! The boobies, too... more so after today, I guess.
DWD,
A debate as old as Christendom itself: how may the favor of God be obtained? The verses you site show a glimpse of a Heavenly sorting, those who do right by the least of humanity and those who are selfish and don't do right by other people. And from my perspective, it has to be true because it's in my Scripture.
As the Bible is available online, I'll link offsite to Romans 3:19-31. In summary, no one is justified in the eyes of God by their works, and it is only by faith that we can be made right with God.
So, where does this leave the verses you cite? Is Paul writing to the Romans more stuff you can't match with the words of Jesus (as some claim)? Nope, the faithful should be known by their love for the needy, their ministry to the downtrodden, as if Jesus were omnipresent with the poor. If as a Christian one isn't working beyond oneself, one should evaluate the level of faith one has - not that a saving faith can be lost, but that a sustaining faith can be neglected to the point of uselessness.
Oy I missed this. I know I love my cat, so sorry about your loss DH. Not really so minor, these domestic tradgedies.
If the poor, pathetic, abused Christians in this country would trypracticing the teachings of Jesus instead of blubbering all the time, we'd be in pretty good shape.
boy, that's the truth. I just want to scream: "shut up already and practice some of those christian virtues you talk about so much."
Somehow that "speeding through the checkpoint" story sounds a little too pat.
Another Bruce
Doesn't though? The whole thing stinks. I hope something good comes out of this tragedy, like the sinking their Bush-loving, currupt PM.....
Another Bruce,
She is saying that the gunfire seemed to come out of nowhere. She is devastated that Calipari died in her arms trying to save her. Oy. Terrible story.
So I'm sure, it couldn't not be, that the wingnut blogs are just as worked up over the Lefkow murders? Which seem, apparently, to be an actual case of terrorism, real, honest to good terrorism, as in using violence in an effort to cause terror?
We'll be seeing dozens and dozens of posts on this from our, ahem, good friends on the other side, right?
Frankly, I think everyone here is just terrific. The way everyone consoles each other when loss occurs as we have for Drunken Hausfrau this morning.
I got the same kind of affection in January over my wife's mom's passing.
You're all very nice people out there. There, I said it.
As for moonbatism...Here's Tennyson:
"In Memoriam"
And Bats flew round in fragrant skys
and wheel'd or lit the flimsy shapes
that haunt the dusk; with ermine capes
and wooly breasts, and beaded eyes.
boy, that's the truth. I just want to scream: "shut up already and practice some of those christian virtues you talk about so much."
which is why some where along the line, i decided that there was a huge and significant difference between 'religion' and 'spirituality.' religion is a way to control people, spirituality is a practice that is personal and individualized. sometimes, spirituality can even enrich your life, and the world, but most people don't do this.
DWD - I thought your explanation of a Pascal Xtian was excellent, and pretty much describes my belief. As you know, I was nominally raised a Quaker and was taught in First Day school that in each and everyone of us resides a ray of light that is our god and goodness. The real name of Quakers are Friends in Search of the Truth. Which again, I think, describes almost all of us at Eschaton. Because of that single ray, whether it be our god, or our goodness, killing, for any purpose is just wrong. As was slavery. Did you know that the Quakers were pretty much the abolitionists. Again that ray. While I am a confirmed agnostic, I do believe that in each us (except Boosh) is a ray of goodness and we should all strive to find that ray.
What the fundies have done is take the vengeful god of the old testament, slid right on by the new testament, and embraced the armageddon of Revelations.
"shut up already and practice some of those [C]hristian virtues you talk about so much."
Word. I better leave and find something tangible I can do today. Peace to all.
Chicago dyke, Bruce,
I 'll try to find the article and link to it. I read it early this morning. It was linked to an Italian newspaper.
Cleveland Bob--kindness, to my mind, is the ultimate strength and power.
Doesn't though? The whole thing stinks.
One of the reasons it stinks it because of how fast it came out as an explanation (excuse?). It would have been more honest to say "We're investigating what happened." I don't want to draw conclusions, but this was a pretty high profile hostage release. How could this happen?
Drunken hausfrau, I'm so sorry about your cat. My condolences.
SDF--it appears that the Lefkow murders are in connection with white supremacists, a group that Maximum Moron cherishes.
The FBI used to keep a close eye on these groups. Any word as to what policy is on them in this day and age?
Is it government's duty to address all cultural shortages?
Unfortunately, the government is RUN by a living "cultural shortage."
And to answer your question George, yes, the American people need cultural education in the worst of ways, as is evidendence but the subject of Atrio's "wankers" post here.
The real question is, what's up with Will's column? Is the ecochamber getting warmed up to attack PBS and the CPB? Because when that happens the RePubs in Congress and the Prez usually follow suit. I dare these MoFos to attack PBS. It will kill them politically....
If you can cat blog or dog blog why can't you blog this??
http://corrente.blogspot.com/200...ing-
friday.html
Conmment on a Non-Wanker:
Just when it looked like the GOP's Bring Back The Debtors' Prisons Bankruptcy bill was guaranteed smooth sailing, up comes Senator Schumer to throw a couple caltrops in the wheels of that juggernaut.
This is how he helped Paul Wellstone kill this crappy bill the last time the Republicans tried to ram it down our throats.
Does this guarantee that the bill is dead? No. Does it buy us some time to write letters to newspapers and make phone calls to radio and TV call-in shows, as well as to legislators? You bet your sweet bippy it does.
Go and do!
Wank the wankin' wankers!
sallyh - Cleveland Bob--kindness, to my mind, is the ultimate strength and power.
That's my philosophy as well -
Peace Bryan.
Great Moments in Punditry, Part XXXVII: Michelle Maglalang
But interestingly, the willingness and readiness of the MSM to aggressively scrutinize these right-wing hate sites stands in stark contrast to the way reporters have covered (or rather, not covered) Islamist hate-mongerers on the Internet in relation to the largely forgotten and chillingly cold-blooded Armanious murders in New Jersey.
This is not the article I read, but it's similar.
Italian Journalist returns home
One of the reasons it stinks it because of how fast it came out as an explanation (excuse?).
In an abstract way it reminds of the Admin's speedy response to the bombing in Lebanon - the blaming of Syria. It was just a little too fast. Sure, Syria might have been behind it or maybe not. Maybe it was an anti-Syrian group who know what would happen? Who really knows?
The FBI used to keep a close eye on these groups. Any word as to what policy is on them in this day and age?
see for yourself here and here.
The Lefkow murders might be connected to white supremacists, but Joan Lefkow's been a judge for some time. There may be other people in cases she decided that are behind this. And her husband was a lawyer who may have been the target.
All we know so far is that the murderers were really sloppy and left lots of evidence...
Oh wait, that does sound like white supremacists, doesn't it?
Oh, and though this seems to go against that philosophy, I find no inconsistency -
Here's a shout out to my girl, Maglaganglyskank:
You racist bitch - you are going to end up one of the most hated figures of the first half of the 21st century. Though to be sure, you are not going to be considered important; just another minor piece of dog shit offending decent people everywhere.
I dare these MoFos to attack PBS. It will kill them politically....
much like ss reform, fucking with sesame street is another "third rail" politically. but they're feeling the converapower flowing through their conservaveins and all public institutions are in their sights. once again the unholy alliance of the free-market fundamentalists and the christo-fascists seems to converge here. FMF get they're government-free society and CF get their culturally scrubbed society. after all sesame street is an active supporter of the "gay agenda." all that talk of tolerance and such, filthy egalitarians dragging down our uberculture.
Let's hear both sides in detail regarding the checkpoint shooting. Our soldiers are in an impossible situation. It's a classic case of if you don't shoot first especially at night, you might end up dead. So start shooting.
The driver's natural reaction after hearing the first shot is to "step on it" and get out of there fast. He may have been rushing towards the Americans 'cause he viewed them as safe. The soldiers viewed it as an attack. This whole thing probably occured in 5 seconds or less. Too much happening too fast.
Regardless there has been an unbelievable communication failure here with tragic results.
No doubt the WH and Pentagon will put the best possible face on it.
And as far as Foxnews, Rush and Co....they'll no doubt play the fact that "Il Manifesto is a commie anti-war paper so tough shit to you all."
Perhaps it would be helpful if we referred to Falwell/Phelps/Dobson/etc as "Kristians", to differentiate them from those who actually follow Jesus' teachings
Here is a story on the Italian hostage from Turkish press:
ROME - The companion of freed Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena on Saturday leveled serious accusations at US troops who fired at her convoy as it was nearing Baghdad airport, saying the shooting had been deliberate.
"The Americans and Italians knew about (her) car coming," Pier Scolari said on leaving Rome's Celio military hospital where Sgrena is to undergo surgery following her return home.
"They were 700 meters (yards) from the airport, which means that they had passed all checkpoints."
Falwell/Phelps/Dobson/etc as "Kristians", to differentiate them from those who actually follow Jesus' teachings
also appropriate:
chri$tian$
Yes, Phoenix Woman, our NY Schumer is doing a hero's job stopping the billious bill.
Agent Orange - And as far as Foxnews, Rush and Co....they'll no doubt play the fact that "Il Manifesto is a commie anti-war paper so tough shit to you all."
Oh hell yes - the trolls were already saying that yesterday.
Chris tx: the foreign press is amazed at this shooting since it doesn't make any sense at all.
But here in America it is all Martha Stewart wall to wall in between stories of chimps ripping off people's balls.
Ah, wank wank wank.
-Atrios 10:56 AM
The battle cry of the moonbat!
Good morning everyone.
The American right wing believes CNN is super liberal. They were, once, long ago. Alas.
much like ss reform, fucking with sesame street is another "third rail" politically. but they're feeling the converapower flowing through their conservaveins and all public institutions are in their sights. once again the unholy alliance of the free-market fundamentalists and the christo-fascists seems to converge here. FMF get they're government-free society and CF get their culturally scrubbed society. after all sesame street is an active supporter of the "gay agenda." all that talk of tolerance and such, filthy egalitarians dragging down our uberculture.
All very true. Like I said, I dare the motherfuckers....
I saw most of that thing with Schumer and Pantsuit and I didn't hear anything that I can remember. Did they have a plan, or was it all just faux-populist posturing and standard-issue demagoguery?
All very true. Like I said, I dare the motherfuckers....
wolf-man | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 12:59 pm | #
And what Wolf-man? What will you do then? Just curious.
You librul moonbats better stop crying for them eyetalian commies that attacked our heroic troops in Iraq. Most of them eyetalians look just like the sand niggers anyhow. Look there's a picture of a real life satan right on CNN right now prezdent Bush is gonna git im' and save us chosun peeples of Crist here in the homeland and all you care about is some commie writer almost got shot. figyurs
China and Japan launch race to the moon
Tokyo blasts back after setback in Asian space race as old enemies plan ambitious projects targeting the lunar surface
Justin McCurry in Tokyo and Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Saturday March 5, 2005
The Guardian
When a rocket carrying a weather satellite blasted into orbit last weekend it did more than restore confidence in Japan's battered space programme - it ignited talk of a space race with the country's old rival, China.
Forty years after the heyday of the US-Soviet space race, the emerging contest between these two Asian powers is already showing signs of ferocity.
Meanwhile, we haven't gotten our aging fleet of Space Shuttles off the ground...
To DH- In Memoriam-Leo: A Yellow Cat
Margaret Sherwood
...O Goddess of unnumbered dead,
Give one soft touch-if only one-
To that uplifted,pleading head!
Whisper some kindly word, to bless
A whistful soul who understands
That life is but one long caress
Of gentle words and gentle hands.
My sympathy to you.
Do y'all mind if I blogwhore just this once? I have an important question to ask...
Anything substantive you would like to add, Gordo?
Toby, why do you object to a woman wearing pants?
chris/tx - so some Italians believe that the Americans shot at the car on purpose to silence the woman? Jesus, whether true or not, it certainly makes a story that a lot of Europeans will believe.
There have been so many of these "checkpoint errors." Remember the parents who were murdered in front of their little girls several weeks ago?
Anything substantive you would like to add, Gordo?
Toby, why do you object to a woman wearing pants?
Snow | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:03 pm | #
Apparently not as much as you do by your snip to me and pointless question to Toby.
Hypocrite. You fit the moonbat mold well.
My question:
Would it be wrong for the Lebanese people and their friends and potential friends (including, most especially, George W. Bush) to use Hariri's violent death as a pretext for applying very high pressure on Bashar al-Assad if they knew they might be (or were) wrong in attributing that assassination to Syrian operatives?
And what Wolf-man? What will you do then? Just curious.
I wouldn't need to do anything, they will be doing it to themselves. Then, voters would whack these fools, just like they will over this SS bullshit.
From Pravada on the Potomac:
"so figures in both parties agreed yesterday that the top Senate Democrat's description of the Federal Reserve Board chairman as a "political hack" was a blunder."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...9-
2005Mar4.html
I wonder who the figures in the dem party that say Reid blunder are? I read the whole article and milbank and henderson do not name one dem that thinks Reid blundered. If figures in the dem party said Reid blundered why didn't the pampered and powdered pundits name names?
The first 2 paragraphs tell us the blundering frustrated dems are attacking greenspan. The rest of the article provides more blundering attacks by frustrated dems. No mention of the giant fiscal mess the US in.
Snow:
Toby, why do you object to a woman wearing pants?
I don't. I just want to see Hillary dress up like she did that time at her Whitewater grand jury testimony. Remember that? She was all decked out in black ---and a cape! Very hot.
Camille Paglia did a great piece on that. I love it.
No. He's on second.
regards
.
DH,
Condolences on your cat's passing. It really is the kindest thing to do, under the circumstances.
Toby, why do you object to a woman wearing pants?
I don't. I just want to see Hillary dress up like she did that time at her Whitewater grand jury testimony. Remember that? She was all decked out in black ---and a cape! Very hot.
Camille Paglia did a great piece on that. I love it.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:06 pm | #
All the sudden Liberals don't care about fashion? Such oppurtunists! Only last month they were tearing apart Cheney's choice of cold weather gear.
The world's most dangerous terrorist
Probing threats inside and out
By Henry Schuster
CNN
Friday, January 21, 2005 Posted: 2:21 PM EST (1921 GMT)
(CNN) -- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi pledges allegiance to Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden gives his blessing to al-Zarqawi. So which man is the most dangerous terrorist in the world?
This question seems as good a way as any to welcome you to Tracking Terror. I've been covering terrorism for CNN for more than a decade, and this weekly space will be aimed at reporting, analyzing and even provoking discussion on issues of terrorism and security
Looks like ole bin Laden is falling down the "terrorists to fear" ladder. Soon he will be totally forgotten. Incredible. Dead or forgotten.
The American right wing believes CNN is super liberal. They were, once, long ago. Alas.
===============================
I don't think they were ever liberal. They just reported the fucking news at one time. Now it is fluff pretty much all day. I used to turn them on and leave it on pretty much the entire day. Now, the fluff is too annoying even for background, so I keep the tv off most of the time.
Thanks for the links, Tena!
You know what I like to read
DH,
Condolences on your cat's passing. It really is the kindest thing to do, under the circumstances.
Wile E. Odysseus | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:07 pm | #
Agreed. I have three cats all going on ten and that'll be a tough call when it happens. You did the right thing.
Maybe Atrios should open a rightwing dating service. They could come here and find companions.
I don't think they were ever liberal. They just reported the fucking news at one time. Now it is fluff pretty much all day. I used to turn them on and leave it on pretty much the entire day. Now, the fluff is too annoying even for background, so I keep the tv off most of the time.
QL in NY | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:09 pm | #
True. I get most my news off the internet now from several sources. Whichever is fitting.
Maybe Atrios should open a rightwing dating service. They could come here and find companions.
Elaine Supkis | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:10 pm | #
Is that a proposal Elaine? I'm free tonight.
Not once have they preached to me. They speak of their church affiliation, but they don't preach.
Sallyh
There are a lot of those folks out there. Sadly, It doesn't play well on T.V.. Only the screamers, gnashers of teeth, and perpetually "victimized" types get on the air. The "lets try to get along" folks, not so much.
Tena - I'm not sure of what to make of the story. Why would a trained driver in the intelligence field not stop after supposedly several warnings? Or were they ambushed as the survivors in the car say? Why would a car be fired on after clearing the inner perimeter checkpoints, if they were as the story says only 700m from the airport? 700m would put you within any perimeters of an airport, ie, to stop firing of RPG's and shoulder fired missiles.
Think we will know more by tomorrow when the survivors have more opportunities to talk to the press.
Ladies and gentlemen, you're in the middle of an Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend!
And now, back to Bobby Ocean...
Check out the my homepage link for a great article about the wingnuts behind the Academic Bill of Rights scamsters.
snip
>Well then, what about the college professor who asked his class to write a mid-term essay on "Why George Bush is a war criminal," and then gave an "F" to a student who had been offended by the assignment and had instead turned in an essay on "Why Saddam Hussein is a war criminal"?
Heard that story yet? Maybe you read it in last Sunday's letters to the editor. The story is spreading rapidly because this professor has become the poster child for the nationwide movement that argues that college faculty are liberal ideologues who will go to any lengths to stifle opposing (i.e., conservative) views and thus indoctrinate students to think like them.
This movement, propelled by David Horowitz and the group Students for Academic Freedom, is using anecdotes like this to persuade state legislatures to put boundaries on what professors can and cannot teach, and what they should and should not be allowed to say in classes. Senate Bill 24 (the "academic bill of rights for higher education") is the signal that this battle has come to Ohio.
Looks like ole bin Laden is falling down the "terrorists to fear" ladder. Soon he will be totally forgotten. Incredible. Dead or forgotten.
Elaine Supkis | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:08 pm | #
You couldn't be more right. Keeping Bin Laden loose and trapped is the best. His CoC is inneffective and no one will take his power. Let him hide in a cave. If we kill him - he becomes a martyr.
I read the whole article and milbank and henderson do not name one dem that thinks Reid blundered. If figures in the dem party said Reid blundered why didn't the pampered and powdered pundits name names?
These assholes love making shit up. Harry told the truth and it sounded like HELL to them. Give 'em HELL, Harry.
hadenough, I read that too. There is no indication in the story rest of the story about the "political blunder". In fact the story mentions that more democrats were joining Reid in the criticism of Greenspan. It goes on to make criticisms of Greenspan's politicizing of the Fed position and then the story concludes that Greenspan's support of privitization schemes has had little influence on the debate. So the lead in is not supported by the rest of the story. Or anything else.
There's just an assumption that one can't criticize his holiness- Alan Greenspan.
must resist, must resist, must resist...
deep breaths
happy place, happy place, happy place...
what did ellen sauerbrey do this time, sallyh? i thought she was just a local maryland whacko.
Reading between the lines, they weren't at a checkpoint, they were fired at by a patrol that first 'lit them up' with a spotlight and then opened fire almost immediately. A scared kid, most likely. His life ruined as well. (Imagine living with the guilt of killing a non-enemy and embarrassing the Great Chimp).
Gordon, seriously: what's your 'nic' at LGF? Like to read some of your work there.
chris/tx - Yeah, I agree. It doesn't add up from either direction.
More Wankers of the Day: Victor Davis Hanson and the whole staff of CNN's "In The Money" are having a field day trashing liberals.
We are just about done. The NYT, WaPo, and even NPR are now nothing but shills for the rethugs.
I'm betting SS phase out turns into the American thing to do in the next few weeks.
This is a don't miss from buzzflash. Contains a nice chart to use when reading/watching the news:
Has the NYT become the White House newspaper? If not, why does it serve as a massive press release by reporting administration “news” like a house organ, omitting serious (or any) reference to persons or groups who are concerned or disagree with the administration’s latest statement or action? Is the role of the NYT to serve as a watchdog for the public interest--which entails critical writing, not flattering lip sync with the Bush administration? If not, the NYT should come clean and add a disclaimer at the top of every news article, for example: “Full Disclosure: This story was written solely from information provided by the Bush administration, omitting dissenting views or concerns.”
http://www.buzzflash.com/contrib...3/
con05073.html
Does this "Academic Rights"' bill have a chance? It's an unconstitutional limit on free speech and unAmerican in the extreme.
Hanson is fantastic. He knows his History ---and exactly how to beat you hippies over the head with it.
And when I say hippies, I mean totalitarian sympathizers.
The society has totally nutted up. Did anyone else follow the link to the American Jihad website? I don't see how to avoid it going off the deep end now.
Reading between the lines, they weren't at a checkpoint, they were fired at by a patrol that first 'lit them up' with a spotlight and then opened fire almost immediately. A scared kid, most likely. His life ruined as well. (Imagine living with the guilt of killing a non-enemy and embarrassing the Great Chimp).
Gordon, seriously: what's your 'nic' at LGF? Like to read some of your work there.
WTF? | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:16 pm | #
WTF?,
I think there's just way too much guessing work here at what really happened. Atrios, surprisingly enough, made a great point when he said it's a mistake to draw any conclusions at this point. Not a one of us has any fucking clue what really happened.
As for LGF, not me. I only visit about 5 blogs of internet friends and they're all small adventures. I don't enjoy going to large scale blogs like LGF - it's impersonal in addition to just a cheering chorus for their ideals. No offense intended, but kinda like here. I like coming here to see what other people are thinking. I spend FAR more time on liberal blogs than conservative. I just get bored with all the back patting and harrumping at conseravtive sites like LGF, etc, that's all.
Bluto--been following this closely. Two points:
a. The assignment was poorly stated. It should have been along the lines of "Is There Evidence That GWB Committed War Crimes?"
b. The student's paper, regardless of position, was atrociously written. I will grant that the student does not have English as a first language, but he did not defend his position. The paper was incoherent as well as stylistically horrible.
Disclosure: I'm a college instructor. I teach math, not writing, so those here who have been writing instructors would be better able to analyze this.
I do employ my political beliefs in teaching, but I do it in the form of math problems. Not only does it get the discussion going, it gives the students a better grip on the events that are occurring.
foobar,
I'm watching right now in utter disbelief. Those fucking halwits are at it again pretending it's no big deal that Bu$hCo lied their brains out to take us into Iraq for a hairbrained scheme the NeoCon-artists dreamed up. OMG.
Ripley and me are getting the fuck out to Canada.
Olaf--Ellen Sauerbrey was one of our delegates to the UN Conference on Women. I wish she was still simply a local whackjob.
no,no, NO!!!
disengage, disengage, DISENGAGE!!!
Tena--that never stopped the Repukes, did it? Lack of constitutionality doesn't seem to upset them.
must resist, must resist, must resist...
deep breaths
happy place, happy place, happy place...
steveeboy | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:16 pm | #
Serenity Now! Serenity Now!
I'm watching right now in utter disbelief. Those fucking halwits are at it again pretending it's no big deal that Bu$hCo lied their brains out to take us into Iraq for a hairbrained scheme the NeoCon-artists dreamed up. OMG.
Lied? Now half the world, including your own party, lied to you?
Talk about your straw men.
Without us, the Iraqi people would not have been able to hold free elections. And without the example of their courage and commitment, the other tyrannized peoples of the Middle East would not now be emboldened to take the reins of their own futures. Thus, George W. Bush is directly responsible for these great democratic movements ---and you people are once again on the wrong side of History and human liberty.
Ripley and me are getting the fuck out to Canada.
ÔżÔ | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:23 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Well there's some good news. Are you actually going to follow through or will you pull a Streisand or Redford?
Repukes, Sallyh?
That's intelligent talk.
Up next: another acknowledgment-free hour on your Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend!
Brought to you by 7-Uop - the Uncola!
question should have been
"some anti-war people say GW Bush is a War Criminal, some pro-war people say he is a liberator" using class readings, lectures, and other sources, discuss and evaluate the arguments on this topic."
Repukes, Sallyh?
That's intelligent talk.
What do the Democrats stand for? The welfare state? Tariffs? Unionization? Self-important (and self-defeating) multiculturalism?
Gordon - fair enough.
As to the patrol/vs checkpoint, yes of course it's speculation. Seems likely though. No reason for an Italian intelligence agent to try and speed through a checkpoint. Fog of War, in any event, saying it was deliberate is just stupid. But it does seem like a machinegun on a patrol vehicle (300 shots fired). It's amazing they weren't all killed.
DH,
So sorry to hear about your cat. Lost two a few years ago, and they do sneak into your soul. However -- and I humbly defer to Ba'al in these matters -- I believe it's policy that all cats get letters of transit straight into a Paradise full of slow, fat, nip-flavored mice and angels with fingers perfectly articulated to scratch them in the sweet spot behind the ear.
And if they have occasional hairballs, they are hawked harmlessly up, and then fall to Earth where they become Fox News anchors and Sentators from Pennsylvania.
Disclosure: I'm a college instructor. I teach math, not writing, so those here who have been writing instructors would be better able to analyze this.
Sally:
My stepfather was a professor until he retired. I seem to recall his telling one student, when grade-challenged, that his paper was so bad that even his algebra professor would have flunked him for it. If that answers your question.
I do employ my political beliefs in teaching, but I do it in the form of math problems. Not only does it get the discussion going, it gives the students a better grip on the events that are occurring.
Sallyh | Email |
i just had a student tell me the other day that this was how he came to decide to major in math. a teacher taught him upper level HS math as a way to better understand "ways in which to decrease human suffering" (jesuit school) and the kid found that highly motivating. i think politics belong in the classroom, but i suppose that's another discussion.
I love how all the capitalist pigs turn there "financial" shows into political garbage.
FUCKSNews has that stock show where they call it "the price of freedom" and half the time they talk about "how the war is going to help the market."
no shame among these people.
they need to start asking themselves what the borrow and spend policies of the big-government conservatives and their enabler Chimpy are going to do long term to the dollar, interest rates, and others aspects of the US economy.
Meanwhile, EU, China,Japan, India, et al are rapidly developing on their own, free of the "defense" costs imposed by the war mongers.
Hi Y'all!
I see that many of my favorite moonbats are gathered here this afternoon!
Sunshine here, good day, good time.
Drunken Hausfrau ~ you have my heart. Audrey and I put our Checkers down two years ago and it was indeed, a small domestic tragedy. He was a beautiful, reddish Golden Retriever. I was just thinking about him this morning.
You'll always have fond memories of your cat. Hold on to those.
Grrr. My stepfather was an English professor until he retired. Man, why do I need about 2 hours and 8 cups of green tea to wake up fully?
sallyh - I know it doesn't stop them. I was just wondering if it will go anywhere for real.
I and chris tx linked to the articles that quote Sregena directly. They were on the phone to the Prime Minister when their car was fired upon. Both the Prime Minister and Sregena claim that the U.S. and Italian's were notified that the car was one the way.
driftglass, my cat loves you. although i dare say, her life now is pretty close to that, minus the mutating hairballs. which is good, because i don't want a fox anchor sliming around on my floor...
Hello. Did anyonce catch this in the NYer this week, in a piece about new books devoted to Voltaire?
It was because [Voltaire} was for the execution [of would-be assassin of Louis XV, the mad Damiens] that the public torture [of Damiens] frightened him; it was a sign of how quickly civilities could disintegrate under threat. ("Enlightened times will only enlighten a small number of honest men," he wrote. "The common people will always be fanatical.") He coined hismost famous phrase, "Ecrazez l'infame--"Crush the horror"--and began to use it, in jauntily (and evasively) abbreviated form. Historians have fussed for centuries about exactly what Voltaire meant by it--the Catholic Church? the Court?--but it's clear. The horror was the alliance of religious fanaticisim with the instruments of the state, and the two combined for torture and official murder.
Crush the horror. CTH.
they need to start asking themselves what the borrow and spend policies of the big-government conservatives and their enabler Chimpy are going to do long term to the dollar, interest rates, and others aspects of the US economy.
created 262,000 last month. That was an easy question. Ask another.
Tena--I think most of us would just ignore the ruling.
I haven't seen a hairball yet except one of mine.
LJ--answers it fully
What do the Democrats stand for? The welfare state? Tariffs? Unionization? Self-important (and self-defeating) multiculturalism?
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:28 pm | #
I'll tell you what I'd like them to stand for:
1.) Civil Liberties: No patriot act.
2.) No multiculturalism/No Anyculturualism: Keep the government the fuck out of my culture and morals.
3.) Fiscal responsibity. No deficit funding of wars.
4.) Alternative energy/conservation (see also Carter James)
5.) "Evenhandedness" between the Arabs and Israelis.
6.) Canadian style health care.
sallyh - Tena--I think most of us would just ignore the ruling.
Good. Rather in the way that most libraries have either ignored the Patriot Act or pressured their city governments to repudiate it, I would expect serious academics to either ignore or repudiate a muzzle on what they are teaching. It's just flat not legal.
i think dwd was too rude to bryan. he seemed ok to me.
7. The rich funding the poor
8. Welfare state
9. Minority dependance
10. Public insecurity
11. Mandated Class Lines
SWR ~
I like your list. I agree.
I'd add fully funded public education with absolutely no infusion of religion in schools.
driftglass,
That was touching and VERY funny.
Hey, Vicki
Who else is cookin' this afternoon besides moi? I've got the Food Network going on for some ideas with a fairly stocked kitchen. Whatever it is, it will have bow-tie pasta in it.
SWR:
I agree with your list.
"Self-important (and self-defeating) multiculturalism?"
That doesn't even make sense. Is every MURKAN supposed to look the same, act the same, think the same.....?
No, thanks!
5.) "Evenhandedness" between the Arabs and Israelis.
"You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one."
Seriously, if that would have been the case over the last few decades, we probably would not have ever had a 9/11, among many other things.
I think if one does not bring the events of the world into the classroom, the lessons are devoid of meaning. Mathematics is like any powerful tool--it can be used as a force for wonderful discoveries or terrible abuses. Without context, one disables a person's ability to make those kinds of choices.
yeah you better use up all your pasta before O'Reiley calls for a boycot of Itailian food.
incog, I will be cooking. At least I will after I hit the market.
this is a serious question, people don't ask it:
does anyone really believe that israel has any kind of future? i honestly can't see things ever working out.
My wanker of the day - no, make that wanker of the YEAR, at the very least - is Jeffrey Rosen. My reason? The current issue of The Atlantic just arrived, with the following cover story: "Rehnquist the Great? History may judge him one of the century's most impressive judges." That story is by you know who.
Bllllleeeeeeccccchhhhh
For what it's worth, I know someone who once, briefly, dated Rosen. And according to her, he has demonstrated at least as much wank-tackularness in his personal life as in his professional one.
SWR:
5.) "Evenhandedness" between the Arabs and Israelis.
Judenhass? One more thing the New Left is becoming notorious for.
Vicki--amen to that. I discuss the beliefs of mathematicians who were spiritual, but do it for giving them insight as to how and why a particular system evolved.
It's typical of wingers to mouth a bunch of nonsense about the free market until it comes to freedom of information. If Horrorwitless is so concerned over balance in academia, wouldn't the market handle that? I mean, wouldn't people choose not to attend universities where the courses don't fit into their ideas about what is proper if in fact that many people are concerned about it?
If it's that big a deal, wouldn't those universities see declining enrollment?
Fuck a O'Reiley. I don't pay any attention that pimple head.
Funny you should mention Voltaire, a friend ended an e-mail to me with this little gem.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you comit atrocities"
Voltaire
I truly believe in the future of Israel. I think a country founded on principle rather than convenience by the powers that be has a better chance of surviving because of determination.
Fog of War, in any event, saying it was deliberate is just stupid. But it does seem like a machinegun on a patrol vehicle (300 shots fired). It's amazing they weren't all killed.
WTF? | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:28 pm | #
Fog of War, agreed. People get scared. They were probaly scared in the car, they were probably scared at the checkpoint. Either way, it's a tragedy.
Tena,
The difference being it's my tax dollars paying the salaries of the hate spewing anti-Americans. Would you like to see Government payrolled Pastors in all the local churches?
does anyone really believe that israel has any kind of future? i honestly can't see things ever working out.
Olaf glad and big |
personally, i'm with bartcop on this one. the only future of a 'pure' jewish state is found on the deserts of OK. holy sand is going to seem less and less of a reason to live in a permanent war zone as more time passes. the orthodox will try to hang on, but simple population demographics support the idea that jews will be a minority in their own state in less than a couple of generations.
7.) Repair/Construction of infrastracture. Public transit.
what principle was israel founded on?
I haven't seen a hairball yet except one of mine.
ÔżÔ
And if you groom String, with those nifty gloves or with a plain old comb, you won't see many.
And String will really like the attention, and it'll strengthen the bonding.
SWR:
Good list. I'd add a strong defense, but tightly governed by something close to the Powell Doctrine.
And the military has to be index funded 2-to-1 with basic alternative energy research: you want to spend two bucks on bombers, you gotta spend one on getting us off of crippling petro dependence and the geopolitical and environmental horrors that go with it.
I mean, wouldn't people choose not to attend universities where the courses don't fit into their ideas about what is proper
Exactly. More blubbering victim crap.
yeah you better use up all your pasta before O'Reiley calls for a boycot of Itailian food.
Footloose | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:43 pm | #
you don't understand the concept of supply and demand, do you?
Chris:
Seriously, if that would have been the case over the last few decades, we probably would not have ever had a 9/11, among many other things.
Why don't you just say what you mean?
incog, I will be cooking. At least I will after I hit the market.
Sallyh
I'm in one of those moods where I don't know exactly what I want to have so I'm just going to think about it for awhile and watch the Food Network in the background for an idea. Probably Italian something.
i've had lots of cats in my life and i have never seen a hairball. i never groomed them either
SWR:
5.) "Evenhandedness" between the Arabs and Israelis.
Judenhass? One more thing the New Left is becoming notorious for.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:45 pm | #
8.) The guts to stand up to cheap ethnic identity politics/baiting like this.
bigvic ... Then there's "Liberty of thoughts is the life of the soul."
Good roundup of current Italian reactions to the Sgrena shooting at Kos.
From Piero Scolari:
The Americans shut down the cell phones of our agents who were with Giuliana. They shut them off while they [the agents] were speaking with Silvio Berlusconi, they prevented the emergency medical technicians from approaching the wounded," Scolari recounts, basing himself on the eyewitness testimony of the Italian secret service agents at the scene. But how is it possible that all this was allowed to happen?"
In that moment I shouted at the premier [Berlusconi] that your war is to blame for this. This war is madness and these are the results that it produces.
If Bill O'Reilly calls for a boycott of Italian food, pasta will be flying off shelves.
i think dwd was too rude to bryan. he seemed ok to me.
Olaf glad and big
Agreed. DWD was a might too quick to administer the smackdown, IMHO.
What do the Democrats stand for? The welfare state? Tariffs? Unionization? Self-important (and self-defeating) multiculturalism?
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:28 pm | #
Let me help you out here:
There are many things that Democrats like and stand for. And if other Democrats here will forgive me for making assupmtions, I will list a few of them:
We like intelligent and thoughtful comments or questions that have at least a passing relationship to actual facts.
We like reading books, not banning them.
We like the constitution, just the way it is.
We like science and the arts.
We like reason and logic and respect for humanity.
We like a world-view that includes people other than Americans and Christians.
We like that activities involving God or sex lives are none of your business, or the government’s either.
We like the concept that healthy people are a boon to society, not a burden.
We like education and we'd like to see more of it happening regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, or ability to pay.
We like a decent living wage for a day's work.
We like the truth. And we'd like to hear some of it from our government sometime.
And,
We like peaceful coexistence to the extent that it is feasible and reasonable. Even with you.
Bryan seemed like one of the good guys to me. I really didn't want him tarred with the Falwell/Robertson/Dobson brush. Seemed unfair.
"Self-important (and self-defeating) multiculturalism?"
Terry, who is a girl, says:
That doesn't even make sense. Is every MURKAN supposed to look the same, act the same, think the same.....?
Why the contempt for The Other, Terry? What is your problem with Southerners? Sounds intolerant to me.
I do employ my political beliefs in teaching, but I do it in the form of math problems. Not only does it get the discussion going, it gives the students a better grip on the events that are occurring.
Sallyh | Email |
Vicki--amen to that. I discuss the beliefs of mathematicians who were spiritual, but do it for giving them insight as to how and why a particular system evolved.
Sallyh | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:45 pm | #
SallyH,
What place do politics and spirituality have in high school math?
I mean, wouldn't people choose not to attend universities where the courses don't fit into their ideas about what is proper if in fact that many people are concerned about it?
tena, i work in admissions and i think a lot of the attack on the academe stems from the fact that a lot of wingers can't get into top schools. the elite like bush can still be C+ agustii thru the end of harvard's mba program, but for most wingnuts, even the ones who can pay, elite schools are beyond their reach. simple truth: little wingnuts don't like to study, and have mediocre grades. their parents usually don't value education enough to know what matters and thus don't step in in time to correct that.
but even the ones who do get in are usually pissed off about the fact that not only are they outnumbered on campus, but by smarter and more fun people.
Would you like to see Government payrolled Pastors in all the local churches?
Oh, you mean all the faith-based initiatives my tax dollars are supporting?
Like that?
Uh huh.
but even the ones who do get in are usually pissed off about the fact that not only are they outnumbered on campus, but by smarter and more fun people.
chicago dyke | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:52 pm | #
I'm curious how else this dyke steroetypes people. Doesn't your mindframe go against the very fabric of liberalism?
And remember, kids - the Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend is brought to you this hour by your local 7-Up bottler!
Ignore and refresh with 7-Up - it's the UnCola!
i've had lots of cats in my life and i have never seen a hairball. i never groomed them either
Olaf glad and big
I don't think one has to, but, from my observations, cats seem to like it.
Would you like to see Government payrolled Pastors in all the local churches?
Oh, you mean all the faith-based initiatives my tax dollars are supporting?
Like that?
Uh huh.
Tena | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:53 pm | #
So Tena justifies her wrong doing based on other "proclaimed" wrong doing?
bigvic ... Here's one for the big sissy Patrician who passes for a leader:
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
genoasail - That was just about perfect and this liberal thanks you.
String's always bathing herself with the leg in the air right now and I haven't seen a hairball yet. I was worried about her yesterday because her left eye looked like it was bothering her. She seemed to be favoring it. I guess she might have poked it getting away from the bug man. It's fine now.
geno:
We like a world-view that includes people other than Americans and Christians.
That's just on paper. How about your real-world intolerance of Christian Americans? Everyone knows your brand of multiculturalism excludes their way of thinking.
I wasn't around during the late 1800's, but afaik, that's when the idea came into play. All I know is that when you had a bunch of hodge podge countries formed after the Ottoman Empire went bust or like how the Hungarian/Austrian Empire went haywire and places like Yugoslavia were formed only to go bonkers decades later after ironman Tito died...Believe me, I'm no history major but people who have fought for the right to live somewhere much less fought for the right to live will defend to the death imo.
Olaf big and glad,
I don't know. Are your cats outdoor or indoor. If outdoor, that may explain your not seeing hairballs.
Gordon--what place do politics and spirituality have in a high school math class?
1. How does the Social Security discussion affect you personally? If we were to examine the numbers, one could see that private accounts would not enhance one's retirement security in any meaningful way.
2. Why did mathematicians pursue the problems they did? What was their motivation? Why is this important to this day? What universal truths were addressed?
genoasail - That was just about perfect and this liberal thanks you.
Tena | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:55 pm | #
Holds no water today, I'm afraid. Dare to dream genosail. The modern liberal is angray, hateful, and more often that conservatives - prone to violence.
i've had lots of cats in my life and i have never seen a hairball.
Oh, the fun you've missed!
With our cats, they're not so much "balls" as "cigars"... is that a common experience?
SWR:
5.) "Evenhandedness" between the Arabs and Israelis.
Judenhass? One more thing the New Left is becoming notorious for.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:45 pm | #
8.) The guts to stand up to cheap ethnic identity politics/baiting like this.
SWR | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:50 pm | #
8b.) Whether it comes from Al Sharpton, Richard Perle, or the Christian Coalition.
Good list. I'd add a strong defense, but tightly governed by something close to the Powell Doctrine.
And the military has to be index funded 2-to-1 with basic alternative energy research: you want to spend two bucks on bombers, you gotta spend one on getting us off of crippling petro dependence and the geopolitical and environmental horrors that go with it.
driftglass | Email
ok, even given the mess chimpy has made of the international scene, i want to object to the notion that defense should outweight practically anything else in spending.
we've got enough bombs to crack the earth's crust. everyone on the planet knows this. there are cheap, sensible ways to protect our borders and decrease the desire to commit crime against america around the world; aid is much cheaper than the MIC.
americans are often too irrationally afraid of the rest of the world when in fact, most nonamericans just want us to leave them alone, and to return the favor to us. and sell us some stuff.
when i think of what i could do with the trillions spent on "defense" i just want to weep. i'm positive we could solve almost every problem we face in this nation today in a short time, and still be safe as houses.
Dave--yes, alas. It's the norm.
The Democratic Party's contempt for democracy is obvious. Don't like the results of the 2000 Election? Claim it was stolen? Don't like the results of the 2004 Election? Blame Diebold or Rove or the Trilateral Commission or whoever the fuck you need to.
Remember kids - you're in the middle of an Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend all weekend long!
Gordon--what place do politics and spirituality have in a high school math class?
1. How does the Social Security discussion affect you personally? If we were to examine the numbers, one could see that private accounts would not enhance one's retirement security in any meaningful way.
2. Why did mathematicians pursue the problems they did? What was their motivation? Why is this important to this day? What universal truths were addressed?
Sallyh | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:57 pm | #
Again, you showed me that you're dragging politics and spirituality into a place where it doesn't belong.
Were I in your school's PTA - you'd be on the street. Go to a private school and teach these things if you choose. Our kids DO NOT need your brainwashing.
Teach math, that's your job.
Incog - Well, it's spring here and I'm sure that's true in La, too. Cats get allergies just like humans and mine tends to get irritated eyes in the spring and fall.
Vet said it was likely allergies. I don't do anything about it - he can take care of it himself.
i do teach math, and apparently I do all right at it. Overall, my students do well.
but footloose, israel is exactly the type of country you are describing. it was part of the ottoman empire, too. israel was created with the permission of the victorious countries after wwii. i would call that "the powers that be."
I'm curious how else this dyke steroetypes people. Doesn't your mindframe go against the very fabric of liberalism?
Gordon the Magnificent | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:54 pm | #
The modern liberal is angray, hateful, and more often that conservatives - prone to violence.
Gordon the Magnificent | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:57 pm | #
Cats like to eat grass when they are outside. And then they usually throw it up. It must be a natural hairball cure. I had two cats who I would let outside often and never had to treat them for hairballs.
Don't like the results of the 2004 Election?
You mean like the Repugs claiming a "stolen" governor's race in Washington?
E mail the Michelle and let her know what you think of her lame response to the true story, rather than the one she hyped.
Toby's been spouting crap all over this thread. His post at 1:26pm is a monumental example of stupidity. How do you have a conversation with someone capable of believing such stupid crap? Best to ignore the dumbass.
OT, but over at First Draft, Holden highlights this week's Friday Document Dump:
A homemade video compiled by Florida National Guard soldiers in Iraq showed members of the unit kicking a bound prisoner and showing his bullet wounds to the camera, but no criminal charges were brought against them, according to military investigative files released Friday.
Investigators reported that the Iraqi in the video, which was titled "Ramadi Madness" and is now thought to have been destroyed, was believed to have died shortly after the incident. But the files indicated that the investigators had consulted with senior military lawyers and decided that the pictures showed "inappropriate rather than criminal behavior..."
The new batch of documents covers 13 cases that were investigated with no action taken against any soldier. The files included investigations of accounts from some Army soldiers presented in a May 2004 article in Playboy that soldiers in another unit had raped Iraqi women and shot unarmed Iraqis. Such actions would be war crimes...
In the case involving the Florida National Guard unit, the files said that a major who was a public affairs officer was sitting in the reserve infantry unit's headquarters in West Palm Beach as soldiers played the homemade video.
He reported that he was offended by what he saw, which included "a wounded enemy P.O.W. in pain on the ground." The major, whose name was blacked out, as were all names, said that some soldiers held the prisoner so his entry and exit wounds could be seen, "while the P.O.W. moaned in obvious pain." Another soldier kicked the P.O.W. in the face.
The files seemed to identify the soldier who kicked the P.O.W. as the company's first sergeant. He acknowledged to investigators that it appeared to be him, although he said he did not recall kicking the man, the files said.
Amrit Singh, a staff lawyer at the A.C.L.U., said that military investigators appeared to rush to end the investigation without bringing any charges. Ms. Singh said that the files showed that there was little doubt that the prisoner was abused and investigators seemed to identify the person who was responsible, yet the case was dropped.
"These are obvious violations of the Geneva Conventions rules about treating prisoners," Ms. Singh said. "The documents raise serious questions again as to whether U.S. forces were respecting the Geneva Conventions in handling prisoners of war and they call into question the government's repeated assertion that detainees were treated humanely."
just found this, but here's the first paragraph via TSC:
Washington, D.C. – The Democratic National Committee (DNC) announced the members of its Ohio Election Task Force. This group of seasoned professionals in the electoral and technology fields are taking an in-depth look into the issues of voter registration problems, long lines at the polls, the issuance and counting of provisional ballots and voting equipment irregularities that voters faced during the 2004 presidential election in Ohio. The team has been hard at work since January, conducting surveys and reviewing election data from all across the state. The task force will submit its report to the DNC with suggestions for moving forward.
"I am confident that Voting Rights Institute (VRI) Chair Donna Brazile and her team of experts will properly investigate what went wrong in the Ohio election process," said DNC Chairman Governor Howard Dean. "This investigation will ensure that every vote will be counted and everyone who is eligible to vote will be able to secure that right."
i love howard when he talks like this. and i hope he keeps a sharp eye on brazile, to make sure she doesn't fuck it up.
I read this interesting bit of logic in letters to the Editor of the Baltimore Sun. The writer claims to be a scientist:
"Paul R. Gross correctly points out that 'there is no scientific evidence for intelligent agency behind biological design'. [Citation for Gross letter omitted] But he and other have written recently to The Sun in defense of evolution miss a very important point: They fail to add that neither is there evidence against an intelligent agency (or creator)."
Nothing like a total disregard for scientific method
Oh, you mean all the faith-based initiatives my tax dollars are supporting?
Tena,
Why are you opposed to mentoring, transitional housing, after school programs, homeless shelters, Big Sister's program, and Sen. Clinton?
Cats like to eat grass when they are outside. And then they usually throw it up. It must be a natural hairball cure.
Yes - good for all sorts of "cleansing," which is why you sick cats will eat grass.
Or hay - one of our cats likes to chew on pieces of timothy hay we feed our rabbit, then hack it up. It's fun being a cat!
jase, i think that was a reply to an op ed piece in the same paper.
"Why are you opposed to mentoring, transitional housing, after school programs, homeless shelters, Big Sister's program, and Sen. Clinton?"
I'm not. But I don't think a certain flavor of faith in Jeebus should be a component of it.
Quien Es Mas Macho ... Jeff Gannon or Rip Taylor?: "Not that having a gay man in the White House Press Corp is a problem, but at this rate we might as well contact Howard Stern or Saturday Night Live for a correspondent. Maybe former SNL regular Tim Kazurinsky could re-introduce his line of ice cream delicacies from the Carvel sketch, including 'Jingle Buns', 'Santa Snowballs', and 'Peter, the Yule Log... in vanilla for $4.95, or chocolate for $19.95!'"
foobar - You mean like the Repugs claiming a "stolen" governor's race in Washington?
Not just claiming, whining so much that they could be heard all the way to Dallas.
Always depends on whose ox is being gored. But the right never admits that because: IOKIYAR!
my cats went outside. maybe that's why they didn't get hairballs. i never took very good care of any cat. they all seemed to thrive.
Ivy League schools are PRIVATE, they have large endowments.
They get tax dollars in the form of research grant money, and the lion share of this cash goes to science/engineering/agro/tech research
unless the fuck face trolls live in Colorado, their tax dollars pay little to nothing for Churchill.
And i love this "I don't want my tax dollars paying for x" whining
two can play at that game.
I don't want my tax dollars going to corrupt firms like Halliburton.
I don't want my tax dollars going for propaganda from Armstrong Williams.
I don't want my tax dollars going to Bush and his political trips on Air Force One as he tries to pimp his plan to destroy SSI.
I don't want my tax dollars going to ONDCP and their BS "if you smoke pot you're a terrorist" commercials.
I don't want ANY Tax dollars going to churches, etc/ etc.
Cons are just pussies, they want affirmative action in the academy, the one place they cannot takeover because they cannot meet the standards of scholarship, peer review, etc.
In the academy, they have to prove their arguments with evidence and they cannot rely on "common sense" or Bill O'Reilly to shill for them.
I love it when I get some baby right winger in my history class. All they ever do is parrot the lines they hear on TV, "this is biased," they say. then I say "prove it."
They then start whining about how I should respect their viewpoint even though they can never mount a coherent argument to support it beyond the usual shibboleths.
Pathetic.
A whole generation whose brains are non-functional cause all they ever hear are the rantings of idiots like Hannity, COulter, Limbaugh, etc.
And when you do for once get a good conservative student that can actually use evidence and logic to support their positions, they are the first ones to admit how pathetic their compatriots are...
They will discuss the racism, sexism, and homophobia with a sheepish grin and know they are in bed with a bunch of losers.
But you still PRAY for the classes where you get a non-pussy conservative that will actually argue his views rather than keeping quiet and then claiming he was "afraid for his grade" or "felt intimidated."
I had the niece of one of the biggest players in the Ohio GOP once in a class. The Hitler Youth used her to get to her uncle so they could get cash for their "fair and balanced" right wing student newspaper. Once they got their cash, they wouldn't let this girl, who was far more intelligent and a better writer than all of them put together, even publish her stories in the paper.
Instead they published their drivel attacking amnesty international, the sierra club, and greenpeace.
She wanted to write about Adam Smith and Edmund Burke, they wanted to be DInesh D-Souza.
THat shitty paper lasted about one year, unable to make any advertising dollars and totally dependent on the welfare provided by the right wing sugar daddies.
path
hee hee, americablog is so naughty. i wonder how this will play in KS:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Every heterosexual Republican man (and lesbian) out there can kiss my happy ass. You voted for these nuts, they spent years dehumanizing gays, other minorities, Christians they don't agree with, and Muslims, and you all sat back and thought "eh, doesn't concern me."
Well guess what. Now they're coming after your happy ass (well, or your favorite model's).
...The president of Michigan's American Decency Association is encouraging Christians not to stand by while disguised pornography gets a foothold through local checkout stands. Bill Johnson says now that the yearly Sports Illustrated "Swimsuit Edition" is in retail outlets everywhere, it is an opportunity to let those stores know the magazine's special edition does not agree with Christian standards and values. Johnson suggests believers ask store managers to remove the issue altogether or at least place it out of sight of young children coming through the stores. Also, he adds, "It's important to tell the manager you're a regular shopper and that you have other friends who, if they were made aware that the store is carrying this magazine, you're certain they would stand together with you." Johnson says the kind of exhibition of women as sex objects that takes place in the popular sports magazine's swimsuit issue should bother Christians, because that is the starting place for the lust that drives millions into eventual addiction to hardcore pornography.
I'm not. But I don't think a certain flavor of faith in Jeebus should be a component of it.
Then sleep somewhere else? Or would you prefer to deprive those that would like a faith-based alternative the ability to find one?
You'd cut off an avenue of support, simply because you don't agree with the faith?
We return you now to the Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend.
Take it away, Cousin Brucie!
After reading this thread I am convinced Toby, Geoffrey, and Gordon the Magnificent(the nom deplume in this case is wishful thinking) are not only full of themselves but full of fecal matter.
Folks, no sense in getting to a battle of wits with those who are obviously 1/2 armed.
Bryan seemed like one of the good guys to me. I really didn't want him tarred with the Falwell/Robertson/Dobson brush. Seemed unfair.
Sallyh
I agree, he express his views on faith in a reasonable (and enlightening) manner, and gave the other posters respect.
Problems with Bush's version of faith-based include
1. Money is being spent without any oversight and
2. They are using tax money to build churches.
Bush isn't interested in helping people. He is only interested in giving money to his supporters. This is cronyism. It seems two-pronged...tax cuts to his rich chums and faith-based kickbacks to his fundi chums. And both groups are famous for corrupt mishandling of funds.
Folks, no sense in getting to a battle of wits with those who are obviously 1/2 armed.
Phew. Good thing you're convinced. Excellent factual attack at a single thing I've posted, as well.
Oh wait. You ignored any argument I presented and opted for the blanket ad hom. Continue, then. You're good comic relief.
i suspect that a lot of money for faith based stuff goes directly back to the republican party, too.
i want to object to the notion that defense should outweight practically anything else in spending.
Right there with you, cd: We make ourselves safer by making alliances, better education, growing and exporting green tech, etc. etc.
I mean that our spending on the whole catalogue of things that will "make us safer" is wildly out of balance, and military spending specifically should be tied directly to progams that will make us safer and more competative in the long run.
And that a strong military needs to be used intelligently as one of many tools of statecraft and not as a flamethrower in the hands of delusional, empire-obsessed children.
olaf, ok it's not like i'm gonna go hunt my history book out of the basement but... wasn't there the Balfour Declaration around the 20's and this was after immigration for 30/40 years at that point and yeah country was LEGALLY created by UN vote or whatever. I'm just saying that the people have obviously chosen to live there and defend it obviously quite well.
Geoffrey--faith based alternatives are always available for those who desire them. But it's offensive for those seeking aid to only have access to it if they conform to the particular dogma of a group.
Try finding a secular based addiction treatment center these days, one that's grounded in science. It's not easy.
That's just on paper. How about your real-world intolerance of Christian Americans? Everyone knows your brand of multiculturalism excludes their way of thinking.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:56 pm | #
See, Toby, this is where your argument falls down every time I read your postings here. You don't know me, or my politics at all, and yet you generalize on what my brand of multiculturalism is. How could you possibly know what I exclude, when you have only requested a response as to what to include.
Sweeping generalizations are not rational argument. Demonstrable facts are called for, and it would seem you are lacking, in general, and quite more specifically, in the instance of talking about me.
Statements which include either the statement "all of you just hate, hate, hate", or what may be near that expression of emotion, are also not rational argument. Try giving facts next time.
And as regards Democrats being more prone to violence, that statement just has you contradicting yourself. Either we are pussies who don't want to go to war, or we are overly emotional and tending towrad violence at the drop of a hat. You can't have it both ways, Toby.
Make up your mind (assuming facts not heretofore in evidence).
i suspect that a lot of money for faith based stuff goes directly back to the republican party, too.
Of course you suspect that, Olaf. I bet you suspected Hanoi John had a good chance of winning the election, also.
Yes - good for all sorts of "cleansing," which is why you sick cats will eat grass.
I think that part of it is that they have a need for chlorophyll in their diet. Mine grazes fairly regularly.
They fail to add that neither is there evidence against an intelligent agency (or creator)."
fucking lunatic right-wing and their love of floppy, flaccid logic. yes, when the scientific method does not fit your ideology simply rearrange it. so now intead of basing scientific claims on empirical evidence, we now base scienitific claims on the fact that there is no evidence against something.
"hey kids, today we are going to be studying the anatomy of unicorns. of course no one has ever seen a unicorn, but since there is no evidence of suggesting unicorns don't exist we are going to study them"
how these imbeciles keep it together? one portion of the insane right claims that genetics differences inate in human brains are markers of their intelligence. the other portion claims that science is valid when it points to things that can't be disproven. more nonsense from the insane right-wing, the only that binds them is their eternal obedience and submission to the words of dear leader.
no dispute that the israelis have been very successful defending themselves in the past, footloose. i just wonder about the future.
i love howard when he talks like this. and i hope he keeps a sharp eye on brazile, to make sure she doesn't fuck it up.
chicago dyke
No doubt, why they insist on keeping her in the public eye is beyond me.
Geoffrey--faith based alternatives are always available for those who desire them. But it's offensive for those seeking aid to only have access to it if they conform to the particular dogma of a group.
Sallyh,
Unfortunately for your argument, that isn't the case. The groups must still meet the guidelines for funding as set by the overseeing institutions.
Check it out.
Olaf - i never took very good care of any cat. they all seemed to thrive.
I think cats do better if they are largely left alone. They are not dogs - they haven't been bred so selectively (up to now) that they have the kinds of health problems that a lot of dogs have.
I think cats are built to take care of themselves for the most part. It's one of their charms.
I have to say, I love his analysis. Sounds like something I would say, and I love it when people think like I do.
It means they're probably smart.
~A!
http://watchingthewatchers.org
I knew a cat who was into strategic vomit bombing. I was living in a college roominghouse with several others and everybody loved the cat with one exception. And it got to whenever he opened his door, she would dart in and puke on his desk.
I'm with sallyh and Olaf - Bryan was very reasonable and polite.
If he shows back up and morphs into less reasonable and polite, that's another story. But I liked his comments on this thread.
geoffrey, i'll go one better and say that i suspect that kerry did win the election.
Geoffrey--then why are the only programs getting money Protestant ones of a certain flavor?
Where is the money for pagan, Islamic, liberal Jewish, and nonconservative Catholic groups? What about money for mainline Protestant grous that eschew the vitriol of the Old Testament?
The modern liberal is angray, hateful, and more often that conservatives - prone to violence.
Gordon the Magnificent | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:57 pm | #
The modern liberal is angry (not 'angray' because they usually read what they are about to post and can generally read) at conservative wannabee non-thinking close minded children posing as knowledgeable adults. Hateful, because it is quite difficult not to mirror the emotions of one's attacker, the attacker being a close-minded opportunistic cowardly practitioner of hate crimes. More prone to violence than their counterparts because of the need for self-preservation as they find themselves and their intellect constantly attacked by zealots of now cause or clue.
well, i'm out for a while. if you see any more comments from me it's a name stealer.
Yeah, what Getson said, I think.
genoasail - That was just about perfect and this liberal thanks you.
Tena | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:55 pm | #
Thanks, Tena. 
geoffrey, i'll go one better and say that i suspect that kerry did win the election.
Of course you will Olaf. Of course you will.
Geoffrey--then why are the only programs getting money Protestant ones of a certain flavor?
Where is the money for pagan, Islamic, liberal Jewish, and nonconservative Catholic groups? What about money for mainline Protestant grous that eschew the vitriol of the Old Testament?
Sally, I haven't seen the list of organizations that have received funding. Could you show me where you found it?
That's just on paper. How about your real-world intolerance of Christian Americans? Everyone knows your brand of multiculturalism excludes their way of thinking.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:56 pm | #
If you mean "Christian Americans" I would probably qualify (having been born in the US and confirmed as a Lutheran).
If you mean "Evangelical Christian Americans," I'll tolerate everything about them except for their desire to use the government to impose cultural restrictions on secular Americans.
Geoffrey--check out Esther Kaplan's "With God on Their Side." Very good insight into the faith based initiatives. She's done her homework.
Johnson says the kind of exhibition of women as sex objects that takes place in the popular sports magazine's swimsuit issue should bother Christians, because that is the starting place for the lust that drives millions into eventual addiction to hardcore pornography.
I guess there's gotta be some explanation when the wife catches hubby with a jism-stained copy of Juggs - "It was SI! Gateway porn!"
L@@K at my spelling! Missed that 'w'.....and fyi that's Gets'e'n not Gets'o'n.....
sallyh, SWR, getsen- you all know better. what is the theme for today?
Go check out CNN. What is it with all these perfectly worded (in English) professionally printed signs showing up in Lebanon every day?
Plus for you cat lovers, there's a video story about some cat that went for a ride on the roof of someone's car. You need to subscribe to Real Player Plus or whatever they call it to see it.
Stinky--these must be guys with no sense of self discipline at all.
I myself prefer the Weekly World News while in the cash line.
Geoffrey--check out Esther Kaplan's "With God on Their Side." Very good insight into the faith based initiatives. She's done her homework.
How about instead you just provide me with the list of all the Charities that have received funds under this program?
Chicago Dyke--you are absolutely correct. I was trying to clean up the excrement on the floor, as the smell was bothering me.
My bad.
cereal breath - more nonsense from the insane right-wing, the only that binds them is their eternal obedience and submission to the words of dear leader.
The other thing that binds them is their willingness to redefine any and everything that doesn't fit into their POV. I mean, look at the attempts to redefine "torture," or what the constitution actually says.
A prime example of that is the idjit who is proposing changes in the wording of Virginia state constitution that was written by founders. His entire rationale is that the words must be changed to better reflect what the founders meant.
Change the words in order to better reflect the meanings of those original words - that's what I'm talking about.
SWR- great answer and one that should be used by all of us that were brought up in traditional religious training and somehow figured out it was our God given right to actually use our brains.
sallyh, SWR, getsen- you all know better. what is the theme for today?
chicago dyke | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:24 pm | #
Ignore the hall monitors?
Geoffrey--check the CBO website.
The fundies say when you tell them you don't like paying for thier church and their discrimination, that they don't like having to pay for governmental abortions. I've tried to research the amount spent on abortion for the low-income or women in the miltary and how it compary to faith-pork but I can't find anything. Just like everything with the fundies, any website on certain topic, you have to wade through a gazillion of their disinformation websites. Try researching gay history and fundies know all about it including the "fact" Roman soldiers "would run their sword through any man who came on to him."
Oh wait. You ignored any argument I presented and opted for the blanket ad hom. Continue, then. You're good comic relief.
Geoffrey
Whoa, it's that ToysRUs giraffe.
"Chicago Dyke".
Toby asked a legimate question.
"What do the Democrats stand for?"
You're only being a hall monitor.
Yes, he followed up with some trolling and baiting but that question was perfectly resonable.
Fuck you if you want to control who I can talk to and who I can't.
OT: The Great Chimp can't be thrilled with Porter Goss.
COLLEGE STATION, Texas (AP) - Former CIA Director Robert Gates says he never felt overwhelmed by the job - something current chief Porter Goss has complained about.
Gates spoke to an audience gathered Friday for a counterintelligence conference at Texas A&M University, where he is president. "While being DCI (director of central intelligence) certainly kept me busy, I never felt overwhelmed by the job," he said.
"In fact, I find being president of the seventh largest university in the country more demanding in some ways than being DCI, although I would have to say the stakes are different," said Gates, who led the CIA from November 1991 to January 1993.
Goss said Wednesday he was "amazed at the workload" of the job he has had since September.
"The jobs I'm being asked to do, the five hats that I wear, are too much for this mortal," he said.
See, if (when) there's another intel failure, it can be said that Goss warned Chimpy he wasn't up to it.
Simple solution: split the job up. Have one person whose only job it is to prepare the Chimps intel briefings.
Sallyh,
Do you have the information or don't you?
Stinky,
Holy 3rd Grade humor batman. I thought liberals were "progressive"? All I've gotten from half of you, after offering debate, is insults.
OT: The Great Chimp can't be thrilled with Porter Goss.
COLLEGE STATION, Texas (AP) - Former CIA Director Robert Gates says he never felt overwhelmed by the job - something current chief Porter Goss has complained about.
Gates spoke to an audience gathered Friday for a counterintelligence conference at Texas A&M University, where he is president. "While being DCI (director of central intelligence) certainly kept me busy, I never felt overwhelmed by the job," he said.
"In fact, I find being president of the seventh largest university in the country more demanding in some ways than being DCI, although I would have to say the stakes are different," said Gates, who led the CIA from November 1991 to January 1993.
Goss said Wednesday he was "amazed at the workload" of the job he has had since September.
"The jobs I'm being asked to do, the five hats that I wear, are too much for this mortal," he said.
See, if (when) there's another intel failure, it can be said that Goss warned Chimpy he wasn't up to it.
Simple solution: split the job up. Have one person whose only job it is to prepare the Chimps intel briefings.
It's the teacher in me, Chicago Dyke. I can't help myself
Off for a while.
SWR - If you mean "Evangelical Christian Americans," I'll tolerate everything about them except for their desire to use the government to impose cultural restrictions on secular Americans.
Basically, I don't care at all what people choose to believe in. I would never give a moment's thought to evangelicals if they just minded their own business. They are determined, however, to mind everyone else's business.
And that's where I stop being tolerant.
SWR, on the Evangelicals:
I'll tolerate everything about them except for their desire to use the government to impose cultural restrictions on secular Americans.
You mean, like imposing granite monuments with the Ten Commandments on them on state property? Do you regard that as an intolerable imposition? If so, then I would have to ask why you hate America's heritage.
oops sorry about the double post
Faith-based initiative funding:
http://www.thememoryhole.org/
pol..._based_2003.htm
Off for a while.
Sallyh,
Of course you are. After you make a completely bogus claim and get called on it.
Seriously, that would be a good question for Scotty though, wouldn't it?
"The head of the CIA has said the job is 'too much' for him. Doesn't that suggest a serious problem, if the person running the agency says he's not capable of doin g it?"
Think that question will be asked?
RoyalWickedness,
Thank you.
Sallyh,
There you go. Notice the groups you specifically listed as not receiving funds.
You mean, like imposing granite monuments with the Ten Commandments on them on state property? Do you regard that as an intolerable imposition? If so, then I would have to ask why you hate America's heritage.
Now you're trolling.
Personally I don't give a rat's ass aboute monuments to the ten commandments or school prayer or any kind of bullshit like that.
The problem is the larger agenda behind it.
If Roy Moore's willing to to legalize pot and gay marriage, I'll personally buy him two granite tablets of the ten commandments for the courthouse of his choice.
WTF - The Dallas Morning News, in reporting on that counterintelligence conference, included a little inset with some very cranky statements from Poppy. He said he's really tired of the intelligence community getting blamed from everything. And he further said that he didn't have a clue how Goss and Negroponte were supposed to divide their duties or what they were supposed to do. He said: "I wish someone would tell me if they figure it out."
Poppy sounded way less than happy with Junior. I'll shoosh over to the Dallas paper and get a link. The News is a registration required web site, unfortunately.
If so, then I would have to ask why you hate America's heritage.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:32 pm | #
Toby, let's see some factual argument for saying that America's heritage is so based. Factual, with real historical evidence and everything, please.
geoffrey...I am notsure what your problem is but I will bet a week of your allowance that it is hard to pronounce.
Olaf,
I know it was a reply. However, I guess I was trying to say that absence of evidence against ID doesn't make it legitimate.
blamed for everything.
My brain says: "for", my fingers type "from".
Damn.
Yeah, but, Tena, if you don't even recognize the legitimacy of their right to practice their faith, you give them Giant Jesus-Loving Hard-Ons. You validate their martyr complexes.
How about realizing that your so-called principled opposition to things like school prayer and the posting of the Decalogue in public spaces is anatagonizing them? Stop trying to sanitize the whole goddamned country just because Earl Warren said that's how it's gonna be.
SWR:
Now you're trolling.
Ah. Right. Now I'm a nigger and you want my seat. Got it.
Well, thanks to the modern republican party, discrimination is becoming legal; as long as it's faith based.
Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
"No law" doesn't mean "except for this law". Why don't the wingnuts understand that the principle of seperation of church and state is for the protection of churches?
Why do wingnuts hate the constitution?
Genoasail:
Do you think the US Congress should employ clergy to bless their activities?
Blogwhore:
A Bad Situation Just got worse.
From upthread:
Why should government subsidize the production and distribution of entertainment and, even worse, journalism?
Because of lying hypocritical assholes like you, George Will.
Why is the word "hatred" used anytime a question of legality or ethics is brought up regarding any issue where difference of opinion by citizens is expressed? Isn't that one of our basic rights- the freedom in this country to express yourself without fear of being hunted down in the middle of the night or thrown into a speeding cab?
More to the Giuliana Sgrena story:
Oops, Cosě Spiacenti, Il Nostro Errore
....
Way back there, drunken hausfrau, very sorry about your cat. Had to do it myself recently.
If so, then I would have to ask why you hate America's heritage.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:32 pm | #
Toby, let's see some factual argument for saying that America's heritage is so based. Factual, with real historical evidence and everything, please.
Another Bruce:
You are correct. What these folks fail to realize is that the separation of Church and State, well thought-out and quite intentional, is intended to protect both entities from the influence of each other. How will they feel when a government not in line with their agenda is in power, and begins to dictate what can or cannot be preached from their pulpits?
Where did all the trolls come from? This is terrible!
To revisit the deaths of that poor Coptic family in NJ, as a sympathizer to the plight of the Copts (who are persecuted & murdered regularly in Egypt & who have fled to this country to avoid persecution) I have followed this story closely. The reason that comunity reacted with fear is because they are afraid with good reason. Even the right wing American Coptic Association (which most of the persecuted Copts in Egypt wish would shut up -- they just make things worse) has acknowledged that the murders were not religiously motivated & that they are glad of it.
The word "Christian" was pretty much ruined in the Reagan years -- it usen't to be a term to be so ashamed of. I'm still happy to be on Archbishop Tutu's side!
Toby, let's see some factual argument for saying that America's heritage is so based. Factual, with real historical evidence and everything, please.
genoasail | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:37 pm | #
"America's Heritage" include a lot, some of it good, some of it bad.
Good: The idea that the government should keep its hands off my morals.
Bad: Slavery.
Good: The ability to assimilate immigrants, the idea that anybody can be an American.
Bad: The treatment of the native Americans.
"America's Heritage" includes both Christian fundamentalism and Christian liberalism (see also Emerson, Ralph Waldo).
I'm supposed to take political advice from Gordon, who posts his penchant for little boys in the thread below? I think not.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
Which means that secularists are denying Christians their right to practice their religion. Forget your tyranny of the minority, Bruce. You can't construe any sort of prohibition of the expression of Christian belief of the elected representatives of this society. You are not Constitutionally shielded from the fact of religious belief in this country.
Yeah, but, Tena, if you don't even recognize the legitimacy of their right to practice their faith, you give them Giant Jesus-Loving Hard-Ons. You validate their martyr complexes.
Name one piece of evidence where anyone ANYONE stopped a Christian in this country from practicing his/her religion in his/her church or home or walking down the street and praying to him/herself. Show me the evidence. Or STFU.
okay?
Toby,
Please define clergy more narrowly.
Petzold:
Yeah, but, Tena, if you don't even recognize the legitimacy of their right to practice their faith, you give them Giant Jesus-Loving Hard-Ons. You validate their martyr complexes.
They have every right to practice their faith in church. What the fuck is so hard to understand about that? And fuck their martyr complexes. They feel that way because they know the tide has at long last turned against their evangelical fascism.
We're gonna go to church when we feel like it -- or not at all -- and we're getting creationist nonsense out of our science classes, and we're gonna watch what we wanna fucking watch, and listen to what we want to listen to. And all the pearl-clutching Gladys Kravitzes of the Jesus H. Christ Party can't do a goddamned thing about it. That's what gets their stupid martyr complexes up.
How about realizing that your so-called principled opposition to things like school prayer and the posting of the Decalogue in public spaces is anatagonizing them?
You know, it occurs to me that maybe sanctimonious assholes deserve to be antagonized, whenever and wherever possible. Politics do not belong in their religion, and their religion does not belong in our politics. The sooner they get that through their thick skulls, the better off we'll all be.
then I would have to ask why you hate America's heritage.
i propose a statue in G.W.B. square, honoring the beautific legacy of slavery. after all it is america's heritage and all. if you object to this proposal you are de facto "hating america's heritage."
amazing how that right-wing logic circulates.
tena:
i would also hasten to add that another of the bonding elements for the right-wing seems to be their hatred towards the "totlaitarian-liberal-communist-hippie."
that rarest of beasts who seems to lurk in the mind of all right-wing demagogues. notice how none of our trolling buddies countered SWR's vision of the democratic party. no, they just tacked on a few silly, blathering points on the end to show how liberals really think. they can't even fathom that maybe the monsters in their mind are phantoms and not based in any reality. but hey, whatever keeps it together for you, right?
Shaw wants to pretend that Christians don't have the right to pray at public events or in public spaces. He pretends that Christians don't have a right to see the symbols of their religion on government property.
Principles, eh? Can't eat them. Can't pay the bills with your theoretical conceits, comrade.
Toby, America's Christian "heritage" existed since this country's founding. True. Its fervor has waxed and waned. The Puritans were very creative and innovative but they also burned women at the stake. The Shakers made some beautiful furniture when they weren't bouncing off the walls and pews with self-induced convulsions. The history of human beings is that religion can lead to terrible things like flying planes into office buildings. Human beings can believe something is so wonderful they will put you to the sword to follow it, too. The fundamentalists are rising now and eyeing power and that's frightening. I would be first on their list. You see, my existence directly contradicts their beliefs so I would have to be removed from the scenery. For 2000 years, Christians had the bible but there was never a government like this during that entire time. America exists because of its ideas from the Enlightenment which was a tearing away from Christian religious dogmas of the ancient past. That you don't understand that and most Americans don't, is scary to us. It's like you're smothering us all with your dumbness.
Genoa:
Please define clergy more narrowly.
No points for timidity, weasel.
Wankers to religious mao maoing.
The faith-based thing in Georgia is sorta funny, but then again, socio-politics in Georgia is pretty funny on a general basis. Georgia has stronger laws preventing government funding of religious organizations than the federal government, but the state's generally turned a blind eye to the practice. There's a bill up in discussion - only one page long, too - to completely eliminate the barriars. What's funny - to me, anyway - is the bill's set up with very little oversight into how the money's spent (which is doubly funny, considering more than one recent case of serious financial shennanigans at a big church). Plus, the sponsor of the bill says he wants it to be taken in such a way that would increase church-type activities in public schools and direct funding of church-based schools. He wants it that you have to hear the preachin' before you get the bed at the shelter. At least he's honest about it.
But, like I said, politics in Georgia is pretty goddamn goofy from the get-go. The state Congress actually spent tax payer dollars to create and pass legislation that legalized catfish grabblin', and they're probably gonna pass a ban on smoking in public restaurants and bars.
So, here is the gist of the LA Times article;
The House on Wednesday approved a job-training bill that would allow faith-based organizations receiving federal funds to consider a person's religious beliefs in making employment decisions.
Under current law, religious groups that receive federal money for job-training programs must obey civil rights laws that prohibit discrimination in hiring or firing.
Passage of the bill, on a largely party-line vote of 224-200, came a day after President Bush told a group of religious leaders that he would attempt to institute the faith-based employment policies through an executive order if Congress did not approve them this year.
So let's say that there is a faith based charity in Tulsa Oklahoma. Let us also say that a qualified person of Jewish faith wanted to apply for a job managing that charity. The church can now deny that person a job that uses federal funding based purely on his religious faith. Does it not ever occur to these hypocrites that the shoe could be on the other foot some day?
Trying to argue with Toby that the truth is anything other than what he says it is, is pointless.
This argument about the Founding Fathers being these ultra-religious, Christian Fundamentalists has been done time and time again, with Toby, and those just like him.
People who like to make this argument like to ignore the real history, and live in this world of made up history, that the Religious Right have created, in order to further their goal of a fundamentalist state.
They will happily trash the constitution (except for thier translation of the 2nd amendment), especially when it comes to the establishment of a national religion.
They pretend the Treaty of Tripoli does not exist.
I really is pointless trying to engage them in a discussion about the 10 commandments as well, as it is just part of thier goal.
One good sign that a culture is under siege or believing it is under siege is when it demands that its "values" be given a special public airing. A good example is when they started putting the confederate flag on the state flags during the 1950's. There are many other examples throughout history. Digby did a very good post on this recently on how conservatives are eternally angry and resentful. The Ten Commandments is just a rather large chip on their shoulder that they dare others to knock off so they can have an excuse to scream in rage and howl that they are oppressed.
Another Bruce - thank you for that comment about what the constitution says.
Since that is what it says, no further comment is necessary.
Sigh.
Today, four Marines "died" in Iraq. Once again, American soldiers shot up a reporter, one that was being carefully returned to Italy.
And today, Bush is traveling around at taxpayer expense trying to con us into destroying our retirement programs.
What a fine day.
Is it government's duty to address all cultural shortages?
It is the government's duty to see to it that social goods to which all citizens contribute are equitably distributed. To the extent that the State has hitherto been respponsible for inequitable distributions of common, social goods, it is the responsibility of government to rectify past injustices.
Got that? or is that too deep fer ya, kid?
Change the words in order to better reflect the meanings of those original words - that's what I'm talking about.
Tena
Remember when neocon hotness was all about debunking deconstructionism and lamenting over perceived stridency and so-called "political correctness" (urg)?
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us." - Marshall McLuhan
I think the becoming is now complete. As someone in here recently observed, we now have "patriotic correctness," and a new form of deconstruction.
-
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
The idea of a vicious, amoral, foul-mouthed, anger-crippled, bloodthirsty thug like Putzold supposing that he's a staunch defender of religion is pretty classic.
See, all the law says is that the government can't legislate churches (or mosques, or synangogues) out of business, or tell people what religion they can or can't be. And that - wonder of wonders - is why the government can't give the Ten Commandments special treatment (as though divine commandments so desperately need the government's seal of approval).
It's not just to prevent the government from being ruined by religion, it's also to prevent religion from being ruined by government.
Putzold is one of the stupidest things on two legs.
geoffrey...I am notsure what your problem is but I will bet a week of your allowance that it is hard to pronounce.
Only for you. You obviously have a hard time wrapping your brain around anything more than a syllable.
Shaw wants to pretend that Christians don't have the right to pray at public events or in public spaces.
Tobey, they have that right. Why do they want to do it OUT LOUD??? Doesn't the Lord hear them when they pray to themselves? Do you think their insistence on FORCING OTHER PEOPLE TO OBSERVE THEIR RELIGION is based in some sort of AGENDA?? Tell me why they can't pray to their Lord privately and be satisfied with it.
He pretends that Christians don't have a right to see the symbols of their religion on government property.
Tobey, the "symbols of their religion" ARE everywhere. Why aren't they happy? And BTW. Those who wish to have them removed are as justified in that pursuit as those Xtians who work to keep them.
They WANT to be victims and they want to establish a theocracy. We don't cotton to that, pal.
PS. I'm a she.
Perusing the thread. These trolls are boring, stupid, and obnoxious ~ no use flirting with the disaster they clearly are.
So follow Dave's advice, Ingore.
Re: Patriotic Correctness
You must wear a US flag pin or else it means you support death and destruction of our troops.
That applies to anyone regularly in the public eye...starting with Chimpy, all politicians down to local news readers on TV.
Shaw wants to pretend that Christians don't have the right to pray at public events or in public spaces.
They have a perfect right to do it. They just don't have them right to make a public spectacle of themselves, and insist that everyone join them.
Jesus had some harsh words for people who prayed flamboyantly in public spaces. He called them hypocrites, among other things.
Christians can't pray in public? Since when? I work in a restaurant, and I see folks saying grace all the time. No stormtroopers come busting in to arrest them. Now, Christians can't make other people pray in public, but that's a different kettle of fish, innit?
What's the official code that police use for a Prayer In Progress? Would it fall under Public Decency statutes or Assault & Piety? Hellfire, I life in a college town; walk around on a nice Saturday night and there's plenty of folks who'll pray at you. They get all excited, too, boy, you've never seen someone get as wound up as a corner preacherman. Never heard of one getting arrested for it, though.
Perusing the thread. These trolls are boring, stupid, and obnoxious ~ no use flirting with the disaster they clearly are.
So follow Dave's advice, Ingore.
Vicki | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:56 pm | #
Translation:
I don't have anything intelligent to add, some I'll just cry a little and "Ingore".
Just viewed this:
Is WalMart Good For America?
It starkly confirms what anybody with a modicum of common sense realized years ago.
Just one stat from the report is all you need to know. The opening of trade with China was *supposed* to provide a *vast* market for products and services from the U.S. Last year in the port of Long Beach, CA, $120 billion worth of electonics, clothing, and consumer goods came *from* China. $3 billion worth of raw materials went from the U.S. *to* China.
And spearheading this astoundingly bad turn of events was none other than....WalMart.
We've become a third world nation.
I need to go get drunk.
Does it not ever occur to these hypocrites that the shoe could be on the other foot some day?
Another Bruce
They can't understand they're removing the layers that will eventually lead to them.
i haven't read all the posts down here at the end.
but it makes me sad that i see Tena, Backslider, Woody, Phila, Elaine, other excellent posters, and spread throught out i keep seeing toby putzholders name.
sad it is.
Which means that secularists are denying Christians their right to practice their religion.
This statement is absolute bullshit, founded at the Michael Savage/Sean Hannity/Rush Limbaugh School of Dumbfucks.
Why is it that the right continues to push lies like this on the American people?
I don't know of any secularists who would even consider denying Christians their right to worship freely.
God, statements like the one made above are inane.
Bryan and anyone else interested:
I am sorry if I seemed a little brusk this morning, it is not you: it is culmination of these people taking a beautiful religion based upon love and tolerance and turning it into a hate-filled brickbat to whack anyone who does not agree with them.
Two points more:
Bryan, I am telling you that unless the believers tell these people to stop lying and hating in the name of the Lord, there will be a backlash. Our country was founded upon tolerance and understanding. I read a poster who said that God was mentioned in two of the Federalist Papers and then only as an exclamation. If you are a Christian who believes in the Word: it is your obligation to defy these devil-inspired fools.
Secondly: If I have a choice between the word of God and the word of Paul: Paul will lose everytime. In many ways Pauline Theology is responsible for the hate that Christianity seems to stand for now.
In short, tolerance and love are not hatred and domination. The Word tells us to love us neighbors as ourselves. Not to hate and defile them. Please, the next time some "Christian" speaks hatred to you: pray for them.
Shaw:
PS. I'm a she.
Damn. I keep doing that.
He pretends that Christians don't have a right to see the symbols of their religion on government property.
This is so loopy that I'd think it came from the Onion if I hadn't just seen Putzy vomit it forth.
They don't have the "right" to mark government property with these symbols (like a pack of piss-spraying hounds) because...get this...it's not theirs.
cereal breath - i would also hasten to add that another of the bonding elements for the right-wing seems to be their hatred towards the "totlaitarian-liberal-communist-hippie."
No shit. And that's like soooo 60's, man.
And it's so typical of deeply dumb Americans that we have the exact same model of Nazi Germany to see what's happening and we still don't get it.
Putzold is one of the stupidest things on two legs.
is true, but he does provide a window into the atrophied brain of the right-wing intellectual masturbator.
Putzold logical maze:
-preventing people from displaying a symbol of their religion on government property is a violation of the first amendment
-islamist judges should therefore be able to post the koran on the walls of their court, or erect staues celebrating the islamic religion
-but wait, it is really about cultual heritage and celebrating the founding of a christian america.
-but, then you are denying islamic judges the right to erect islamic statues, and thereby violating the first principle of the logical maze
repeat endlessly.
the argument is about "religious freedom" until it is about "cultural heritage." the mind reels.
C’mon don’t insult American Heritage.
I distinctly remember that glorious day when Cecil B. DeMille came down from heaven and gave Charleton Heston the Constitution of the United States on the back lot of the MGM Sutdios. Carved by His Holy Fanger into the Living Granite, it said:
Blahblahblah
Everybody Gets Guns-N-Stuff !
Blahblahblah
Except the Negroes!
Buncha other stuff
And Chicks!
And then the damned liberal courts got ahold of it and fucked it all up.
And Christ wept.
Christians can't pray in public? Since when?
Actually Christians don't have to really. Muslims and Jews have to pray as part of a group. Christians don't.
But that's neither here nor there. For whatever reason, Evangelical Christians (as opposed to "Christians") feel persecuted because we don't want them establishing their own version of Sharia Law.
Too bad. They can practice their religion but not if it involves a religious state. Same with Muslims and Jews.
I have come to HATE those flag pins. Who has the courage *not* to wear one?
Which means that secularists are denying Christians their right to practice their religion. Forget your tyranny of the minority, Bruce. You can't construe any sort of prohibition of the expression of Christian belief of the elected representatives of this society. You are not Constitutionally shielded from the fact of religious belief in this country.
Toby Petzold
Who mentioned anything about trying to deny Christians their right to deny their religion? Who is trying to prohibit their expression? There is nothing in that post that states that. That's why I left the part in that says "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Churches recieve tax exempt status, I'm ok with that but if they want to keep that status, they should keep their hands off of federal funds.
Germans can at least say today, they didn't know it would lead to that. There was never another incidence prior. We don't have that excuse.
God, statements like the one made above are inane.
Vicki
This is their way of continuing their victimhood. They LOVE it. They think they're victims for Jaysus.
They are not. These types of "Christians" are hateful hypocrites. Hateful=full of hate.
They can't think three blocks past a cow.
I think it's funny that Shaw mocks a person's religious beliefs in the same breath she denounces hate speach.
Phila:
See, all the law says is that the government can't legislate churches (or mosques, or synangogues) out of business, or tell people what religion they can or can't be.
Nor can Government be used by secularists to deny the existence of the religion of the majority of Americans. Christians pay taxes on the schools where their kids go and, yet, the kids can't pray to their God. Why is that?
And that - wonder of wonders - is why the government can't give the Ten Commandments special treatment (as though divine commandments so desperately need the government's seal of approval).
"Special treatment" is acknowledging the importance of those tenets in the lives of the people whom they represent and serve? Your theoretical opposition to that is absurd.
I have come to HATE those flag pins. Who has the courage *not* to wear one?
WTF
I wear a Canadian flag pin on my hat...
it annoys me that the folks whom i consider the most anti-american people on the planet have appropriated the symbol. more than anything else, it's why i don't have any problem with burning the flag as a political demonstration...the motherfuckers who i'm talking to KNOW who's being addressed, and what it's saying: FUCK 'EM...
Churches recieve tax exempt status, I'm ok with that but if they want to keep that status, they should keep their hands off of federal funds.
Another Bruce
My sentiments exactly.
Remember the video of the Christian fundaments bowing and praying toward the two-ton idolatrous rock in Alabama?
Of course, the thing is that fundis always get carried away. They used to have public prayers over the loudspeaker at the Mississippi high school I went to. One day, the girl doing it got so worked up that she went on for 15 minutes and that was the end of prayers over the loudspeaker. These people will always end up alienating the more rational because they are never satisfied. They are totalitarians and regard everything non-fundi as evil. And there will be a tipping point. It happened in my small Mississippi town. The fundis tried to pass a law forbidding people from shopping on Sunday and the local preachers screeched that Sunday shoppers were evil atheists. And the ordinance lost big time.
Fielding - I think the becoming is now complete. As someone in here recently observed, we now have "patriotic correctness," and a new form of deconstruction.
I couldn't agree more and for an example of that "patriotic correctness," see any troll comment the minute someone points out a fact about the middle east that does not fit the winger picture of Dear Leader's "accomplishments."
Also see - any thread in which geo-politics is under discussion and Israel is mentioned. That one will always - always - bring accusations of anti-semitism.
They are going to drown themselves in all this "correctness."
Fuck you if you want to control who I can talk to and who I can't.
SWR | Email
well, i go out for lunch and come back to find this thread has really improved since my last post. take a pill, SWR, all i was saying is that it's a waste of your time and the common space, but feel free to waste in any way you like.
Bruce:
Churches recieve tax exempt status, I'm ok with that but if they want to keep that status, they should keep their hands off of federal funds.
That's the exact same argument anti-choice Christians use for banning birth control information in Government-funded clinics.
cereal breath:
staues celebrating the islamic religion
Did you mean to write that?
Fun fact: those who filed the lawsuit banning prayers at Texas football games were not atheists, but Catholic and Mormon parents who were tired of their tax dollars paying for protestant indoctrination.
This goes to the heart of the problem: if the state, in whatever form it takes (hint: taxpayer-supported schools are the state), presents only one view of religion, then it implies the state's support of that religious viewpoint. People of other religious viewpoints don't exactly want the state telling them what their view of religion must be.
With so many beliefs operating, with so many divisions, even within the same belief systems (ask a Landmark Baptist if a Southern Baptist is a real Baptist), it's better to have the state stay out of religion entirely and let people make up their own minds. Hence, the policy of separation of church and state.
Perusing the thread. These trolls are boring, stupid, and obnoxious ~ no use flirting with the disaster they clearly are.
So follow Dave's advice, Ingore.
Vicki | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:56 pm | #
Translation:
I don't have anything intelligent to add, some I'll just cry a little and "Ingore".
Geoffrey
No, actually, you fucking asshole, no translation required. My statement stands. Your arguments are weak, and I note that you've insulted several people throughout the course of this thread. Some of whom have tried to engage politely with you. You have clearly shown us that you don't deserve to participate in this discussion. You are certainly no decoration on the table or ornament to the conversation.
Fuck off and die a painful death.
Toby,
Shut up, already. You are stating outright lies here, and you pretend to be "concerned" for the plight of Christians.
Provide proof of one incident where a Christian praying to themselves without prostelyzing in a school was silenced.
Provide proof where a Christian was denied his ability to practice his religion, without prostelyzing in a school or government instution.
I am willing to bet you cannot
Muslims and Jews have to pray as part of a group.
not true. when i was living in n.y. i saw a guy pull over on the side of the road and remove a carpet from his van. he placed the carpet on the ground and prayed towards mecca, by himself.
Churches recieve tax exempt status, I'm ok with that but if they want to keep that status, they should keep their hands off of federal funds.
i'm not ok with tax exempt status. we tax sporting events, entertainment entities that make movies and celebrities, why should the equally irrational area of religion be exempt? i know, the first amd. has something to say about that, but if i were to have a chance to change taxation of churches, i would do it in a heartbeat.
I was under the impression that statuary of humans was forbidden in Islamic law.
No, actually, you fucking asshole, no translation required. My statement stands. Your arguments are weak, and I note that you've insulted several people throughout the course of this thread. Some of whom have tried to engage politely with you. You have clearly shown us that you don't deserve to participate in this discussion. You are certainly no decoration on the table or ornament to the conversation.
Fuck off and die a painful death.
Vicki | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:12 pm | #
If my argument was so weak, why haven't you destroyed it even yet? Perhaps because my initial translation was pretty accurate.
While your at it, how about providing a few examples of people I've insulted without instigation?
I'll wait.
I don't believe in special rights for Christians.
I don't smoke pot, but I'd pay good money to see a group of Rastafarians protesting outside a courthouse, demanding that their giant bronze doobie be prominently placed in the rotunda.
I'm just sayin...
America exists because of its ideas from the Enlightenment which was a tearing away from Christian religious dogmas of the ancient past. That you don't understand that and most Americans don't, is scary to us. It's like you're smothering us all with your dumbness.
ÔżÔ | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:49 pm | #
fuck'n well said, go incog.
And as I refresh the page, my comment was #420. What are the odds? rofl
Go check out CNN. What is it with all these perfectly worded (in English) professionally printed signs showing up in Lebanon every day?
Lebanon has the 2nd highest literacy rate in the world about 99.7%. Before their stupid civil war the country was held up as a model of development and stability for the Arab world. Since Syria imposed a peace the country has slowly been climbing back to where it was before.
My best friend is Lebanese American. When his family members come to visit, to a man and woman, they speak almost flawless if heavily accented English.
I was under the impression that statuary of humans was forbidden in Islamic law.
Sallyh | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:15 pm | #
You're back. Or did you just not post until you thought everyone had forgotten that you tried to pass off a sham argument and got caught?
Although I have strong political views (as some of you may know), I am prevented from certain political acts (viz., contirbuting to or working for a political campaign) which would jeopardize the tax-exempt status of the monastery (both as a religious prganization & as a non-profit corporation -- BTW, we pay a lot of taxes -- just not property tax on the church building & no individualy income taxes since we have no individual incomes)
One thing that we have noticed in the battles in the Episcopal Church over sexuality issues (both the ordination of women & the full inclusion of gays & lesbians) is that the MBFs yell "persecution" when what they really mean is that the bishop doesn't agree with them.
Ripley--hope you're feeling better today. Good to see you.
How does one stop someone from praying at school? I thought praying was a convorsation with God, any convorsation, even if you do it silently to yourself. I mean, you don't have to make a big spectacle of yourself, do you? I mean, yeah, some religions do have certain rituals they have to perform in certain ways at certain times, but I was under the impression that most schools systems made allowances for students of those faiths, Christian or not. I don't think the school itself should be leading prayers over the intercom, but that's a different argument and not really the same thing as personal prayer.
So...how does one stop someone else from praying, if God hears all thoughts, spoken or silent?
That's the exact same argument anti-choice Christians use for banning birth control information in Government-funded clinics.
Toby Petzold
Say what??? Dude, put the crack pipe down, and slowly walk away from the keyboard. Anti-choice Christians want to ban birth control because it conflicts with their notion that every sperm is sacred; they don't want the government funding practices that are antithetical to their beliefs, despite the fact that the Government should not be in the business of catering to a particular religion's ideology. What are you on?
Germans can at least say today, they didn't know it would lead to that. There was never another incidence prior. We don't have that excuse.
--------------------------------
Excellent point. BTW peeps, I'm beginning to agree with Elaine, this entire thread has now been turned over to responding to the moronic brownshirts.
Life is sure strange for us hairless monkeys, isn't Sally? I'm still ready to blow off this society of ours, though, and move to the woods.
Excellent point. BTW peeps, I'm beginning to agree with Elaine, this entire thread has now been turned over to responding to the moronic brownshirts.
QL in NY | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:19 pm | #
Why are liberals so intolerant of open debate?
He pretends that Christians don't have a right to see the symbols of their religion on government property.
Phila:
This is so loopy that I'd think it came from the Onion if I hadn't just seen Putzy vomit it forth.
They don't have the "right" to mark government property with these symbols (like a pack of piss-spraying hounds) because...get this...it's not theirs.
If you look at the edifice of the Supreme Court, it is adorned with the names of great religious leaders and philosophers from throughout History.
What makes you think that your little secular moment in the Sun is enough to erase the Historical fact of these great figures' influence on our justice system?
Don't think for a moment that you are, in any way, a tolerant person. You are a goddamned iconoclast, like some beer-soaked Lutheran smashing up the pretties in a Catholic church 500 years ago.
Phia:
BTW, how are you doing?
sekmet - don't believe in special rights for Christians
Nor do I. But the christians sure do. One the one hand they insist constantly that this is a "christian country." On the other, they insist, constantly and loudly, that they are being discriminated against and suppressed, which is, frankly, hilarious.
Mutually exclusive positions - but when did that ever stop the right?
Geoffrey,
You're not worth my time or energy.
Since this thread has basically been derailed by assholes like you, I'm outta here. I'd rather fold laundry than read your vitriolic and taunting comments to people like sallyh, et al.
Again, I invite you to fuck off and die a painful death.
Have a nice afternoon, liberals.
I don't smoke pot, but I'd pay good money to see a group of Rastafarians...
And the chemical formula for mescaline prominently displayed in every classroom.
I'm just sayin...
Salma Hayek is half Lebanese. 'Nuff said.
It's not just to prevent the government from being ruined by religion, it's also to prevent religion from being ruined by government.
Phila
As usual, you've expressed the crucial point in the entire discussion. Einstein and others had the same concern about the establishment of a political nation based on Judaism.
Their contention was that the business of running a state, that business being inherently messy and brutish, would corrupt and weaken the faith.
Regardless of your opinion on whether or not this is correct, it makes for interesting reading on the question of church/state separation.
Please note, I most emphatically do NOT question "Israel's right to exist."
-
Geoffrey--I feel that I have listened to you and treated you with respect. You have not returned the favor. I do not have to defend my activities to you, or to anyone else, for that matter.
Please do not feed the trolls.
Hi Vicki!
The sun is out -- the snow is melting off the roads -- I plan to run tomorrow & hope the snow holds off unilt after that!
Hope you're all recovered from that flu bug (it can hold on forever)
Geoffrey,
You're not worth my time or energy.
Since this thread has basically been derailed by assholes like you, I'm outta here. I'd rather fold laundry than read your vitriolic and taunting comments to people like sallyh, et al.
Again, I invite you to fuck off and die a painful death.
Have a nice afternoon, liberals.
Vicki | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:20 pm | #
Of course you're out of here. I asked your repeatedly for examples to back up your ridiculous insulting claims and you respond with more insults then scamper off.
You've been exposed.
The NY Times, Jan 12:
Facing Facts About Iraq's Election
When the United States was debating whether to invade Iraq, there was one outcome that everyone agreed had to be avoided at all costs: a civil war between Sunni and Shiite Muslims that would create instability throughout the Middle East and give terrorists a new, ungoverned region that they could use as a base of operations. The coming elections - long touted as the beginning of a new, democratic Iraq - are looking more and more like the beginning of that worst-case scenario.
It's time to talk about postponing the elections.
Ripley--the only problem with moving to the woods is the cuisine. Fresh air and solitude, really good. Restaurants? Not so much
The NYTimes March 1:
Mideast Climate Change
It's not even spring yet, but a long-frozen political order seems to be cracking all over the Middle East. Cautious hopes for something new and better are stirring along the Tigris and the Nile, the elegant boulevards of Beirut, and the impoverished towns of the Gaza Strip...
Still, this has so far been a year of heartening surprises - each one remarkable in itself, and taken together truly astonishing. The Bush administration is entitled to claim a healthy share of the credit for many of these advances. It boldly proclaimed the cause of Middle East democracy at a time when few in the West thought it had any realistic chance. And for all the negative consequences that flowed from the American invasion of Iraq, there could have been no democratic elections there this January if Saddam Hussein had still been in power...
ÔżÔ,
the USG banned abortions on military bases or paying for abortions for servicemembers YEARS ago.
you cannot find evidence of money spent becasue tere is no fed money spent to provide abortions for women.
THis makes it nice for them, cause then when teh women get pregnant and cannot get an abortion--for example, if they are stationed overseas in some 3rd world country--the right wing can bitch about "all the pregnant women in the military."
When I was in the service in the 1980s I knew a woman that had to take leave and spend her own cash to get an abortion--and this was in North Carolina.
Jeebus knows what airmen stationed in Korea, or the P.I., or say, Diego Garcia did if they got pregnant and wanted an abortion.
I believe, but am not 100% sure, that federal funding for abortions for the poor in the US was also banned a long time ago.
Geoffrey is Gordon to Moron if anyone hasn't figured that out yet.
If he isn't, he is just a moronic and as much of a fuckwit.
Almost all not-for-profits are required to file a Form 990 with IRS outlining how much money they received and how it was spent on an annual basis. Including director's salaries. You can access these forms at the BBB website.
Religious organizations are exempt from these requirements because the government does not interfere in religious matters. If they get federal funds they should be held to the same reporting requirements as all other charities. Or FOAD. I'm really pissed that they want to take my tax dollar and not be held accountable. To say nothing of the fact that they want to teach the total subjugation of women to their husbands with public funds. We are becoming second class citizens again. Are the last fifty years really gonna be remembered as the apex of American society.
Geoffrey--I feel that I have listened to you and treated you with respect. You have not returned the favor. I do not have to defend my activities to you, or to anyone else, for that matter.
Sallyh | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:22 pm | #
When did I treat you with a lack of respect? I defended my argument, you made a claim. I asked for evidence. You failed to provide it. I found the evidence and it completely disproved your claim. Rather than acknowledge it, you ignored it and too up the:
"I don't have to answer you" defense. Why are you afraid of discussion? Does being wrong bother you that much?
sekmet - I wish you could have heard the dittohead I sat next to on the plane rant about how Christmas was being suppressed.
That's just so fucking hilarious that it's one of my favorite fundie claims. Oh yeah, it's so suppressed. It only starts the day after Halloween, when they start playing Christian Christmas carols on the muzak in every single store in the country. Then all the angels and the stars and the little baby Jesuses appear everywhere and we're off and running into the longest and most in-your-face fucking holiday on earth.
Bring Back The Colisseum: A Modest Proposal
Apparently, Christians cannot be fulfilled unless they are being persecuted. Their lore reflects back on the sacrifices of their early martyrs with adulation near idolatry.
In the absence of official persecution, Christian Talibangelists have been forced to fall back upon a strategy which, interstingly, resembles that of a spoiled child thwarted in some particularly stupid, but seemingly desireable practice. they INVENT persecutors, upon whom they may then turn their brave, selfless sacrificial instincts in opposition.
It seems to me that in this arrangement, as in most other aspects of their faith, they are cheating.
Their ancestors actually had to face death, torture, agony, humiliation and assorted indignities to affirm their faith.
Not today.
When was the last time a Christian in the US suffered any of those consequences as a consequence of their faith? Shit, today, all they have to do is to swindle a sufficient number of brain-deadened consumerist drones to donate a few bucks and proclaim their 'message' into the void.
So what I am suggesting is that we bring back the Colisseum. We rebuilt the London Bridge over a lake in Arizona. Let's rebuild the Colisseum somewher out in the great salt desert in Utah.
See, every week, we ask for volunteers from among the faithful who want to sacrifice and face martyrdom for their faith.
Then there's a reality-game-show during which each person in the select group is selected for the Arena. They get to choose which animal they must face. The last one gets to go free and preach the gospel.
We charge admission, sell ads, and get the whole thing on Fox.
Brilliant! Fucking Brilliant, if I do say so myself...
Big Daddy--seems to be more propaganda than fact there, would you say?
I agree that change is taking place, but evidence doesn't support that it's of the sort The Regime would like, no matter how they color it.
I didn't know I had to defend balancing my checkbook.
Geoffrey is Gordon to Moron if anyone hasn't figured that out yet.
If he isn't, he is just a moronic and as much of a fuckwit.
David (Austin Tx) | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:25 pm | #
Actually, no, I'm not. I don't expect you to be smart enough to figure that out, though.
Nor do I expect you to be smart enough to engage me in debate without turning into a quivering cry baby. You could have at least attempted the former before resorting to the latter, though.
WoodyG--great idea. And fun for the whole family, too.
Phila, you raging iconoclast you. Are you destroying statues and not telling us? Somehow, I think not. Who would, though? Hm... Let's look at recent events.
How about the guy who smashed statues in San Antonio's newly restored San Fernando Cathedral only last year, to "save" them from idolatry? An iconoclast...or a fundie loony?
Funny how some things never change, isn't it?
...more than anything else, it's why i don't have any problem with burning the flag as a political demonstration - WGG
Right Arm!
I always told everyone that I joined the corp to protect their right to burn the U.S. flag if they felt like doing so.
I distinctly remember the day flag burning became illegal. Thought Faulkner's barn burner types were behind it then. Slack-jawed morons -couldn't wipe their ass with a fuckin' bedsheet, let alone grasp the fact that it was the first step down the slippery slope...
/apopletic fit
I didn't know I had to defend balancing my checkbook.
Sallyh | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:27 pm | #
Neither did I.
Of course, that's just a straw man defense to avoid the topic.
Carry on, though.
Look, asshole, I'm "exposed" ~ for what? To what? Your bullshit? No thanks. You asked me once, not repeatedly ~ just proves you're a liar. But we already knew that. Reread the thread for all the proof you need, jerk. These people here know me, they've known me for a long time ~ they know what I'm capable of posting, they know about my passions. No one here expects me to cherry pick statements in this thread to disprove your idiotic statements.
And I don't have to prove anything to you. Reread the thread yourself. I'm done with you and your bullshit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And on a completely different note:
Hi Prior! Hi NY QL!
Hiya, Vicki - how's the other side of the lake today?
But that's neither here nor there. For whatever reason, Evangelical Christians (as opposed to "Christians") feel persecuted because we don't want them establishing their own version of Sharia Law.SWR
also because the are specifically told that they will be persecuted in the end times. which they believe are upon us (can't argue with that, self fulfilling prophecy?)
i say fuck 'em all, NUKE 'em to glass, which if incogs' speculation is correct, and i suspect it is, would be a just end for the dumbmonkeys.
anyone else notice that, that stormfront group wears a W logo on their hats? coincidence, hmmm....?
I went to a fundi church and had to listen to sermons where the Pope was called the Anti-Christ. And hear that Catholics were going to violently overthrow America and kept guns in the basements of Catholic churches. And then there were the constant attacks on other Protestant denominations. Too many fundis are dangerous, paranoid, and have this persecution complex that they are being besieged. And now they own the federal government and the gop and still they howl and scream that they are the victims. I live in a college town that has a Buddhist monastery and the fundis have whipped themselves up into such a frenzy that the monastery got vandalized a few years ago.
Look, asshole, I'm "exposed" ~ for what? To what? Your bullshit? No thanks. You asked me once, not repeatedly ~ just proves you're a liar. But we already knew that. Reread the thread for all the proof you need, jerk. These people here know me, they've known me for a long time ~ they know what I'm capable of posting, they know about my passions. No one here expects me to cherry pick statements in this thread to disprove your idiotic statements.
And I don't have to prove anything to you. Reread the thread yourself. I'm done with you and your bullshit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And on a completely different note:
Hi Prior! Hi NY QL!
Vicki | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:29 pm | #
Speaking of liars, how many times are you going to be "done with this"?
You're right, you don't have to prove a thing. As I stated originally, your inability to provide an example or answer with anything more than grade 3 whining is evidence in and of itself.
Hiya, Driftglass.
Hi Ripley!
We're looking at 38 degrees and sunshine!
So things are good, things are very good. How's everything with you?
Ladies and gentlemen, you're in the middle of an Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend!
Remember, kids - every ignored taunt is a little less money in your favorite brownshirt's paycheck! The lighter the paycheck, the sooner they're back dropping fries at Jack-in-the-Box!
Do the fast-food industry a favor - ignore a moronic brownshirt fuck today!
And now, back to Humble Harv...
Ever notice there's nothing in the 10 Suggestions about love or peace or helping your neighbor?
Nope, just loyalty and property protection. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
If any population deserved to have a functioning country, it's the Iraqis. I sincerely hope that things do work out and that the elections do have a good result.
I don't know what's going to happen yet. I'm waiting to see.
And hoping to see something good come out of all the horror. I'm skeptical because good things generally don't flow from lies and wholesale slaughter. But I still have hopes for the Iraqis.
I got such a chuckle that the link has the words "this shithead" then go to the comments section and find this:
If you think what I wrote was a "sham apology", Mithras, then I suggest the term "shithead" fits you much better than me, pal.
Posted by: Charles Bird | March 5, 2005 12:29 PM
Ha ha! Good times - no matter what anyone else says, there's lot of funny stuff on the internet.
That's the exact same argument anti-choice Christians use for banning birth control information in Government-funded clinics.
You're right, and there are Christians and non Christians who do favor birth control information in government funded clinics. My point is that it's dangerous for churches to get involved with government funding. I do favor church tax exemption as a way to keep the principle of seperation of church and state intact.
toby:
thanks for addressing the point of my post. i know it's hard for you to face but which argument are you making? at one point you are claiming "religious freedom" as a basis for the 10 commandments and the next moment you are basing your argument on "american christian heritage." do you not see how the two are logically inconsistent?
if it isn't about "american christian heritage," then under your "religious freedom" argument any display of religion on government property is sanctioned by the first amendment. fine, that is an argument you could make and i'd listen to the reasons. but then you claim that it is under the rubric of "american christian heritiage" that we allow the 10 commandments to be displayed. if the argument is indeed "american christian heritage" then your first argument is contradicted because you are no longer adhering to "religious freedom" but instead recommending special dispensation for "christian heritage."
dig? or do you need further clarification?
Hiya, Res Ipsa Loquitor,
Lotta weather today
I'm off to the gym and errands but perhaps a little something from Mr. Paul Anka first?
Hey, Eschatonia! Are you suffering from the heartbreak
of...brownshirtitis? Then take a tip from Mr. Paul Anka!
To stop those trollies 1-2-3,
Here's a fresh new way that's trouble-free,
It's got Paul Anka's guarantee...
(Guarantee void in Tennessee.)
Just don't look! Just don't look!
.
Somebody should compile a list of all the financial scandals of the churches for the last couple of decades. Not just PTL. One big tv church in California took the money it had raised for the starving children of Ethiopia in the 1980's and used it to buy the church leader's son a luxurious mansion. And then had the arrogance to defend this. And Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have both been involved in some funny money transactions.
If any population deserved to have a functioning country, it's the Iraqis.
I'd add Haiti to that list. Those poor people live in perpetual squalor owing, in great regard to the multitude of times they have been fucked with by us among others.
same trolls, same shit, different day.
-J.T.
sic gorgeamus allos subjectatos nunc.
sekmet ... There was a recent NYer article about a guy in TX who makes it his full-time job to expose financial misdeeds and scandales of the televangelista. I can find it for you if you want.
This just in: at the half, the score is: Freedom to Think 1, Moronic Brownshirt Fucks 0.
We return you now to the Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend, brought to you by Cal Worthington Motors.
Somebody should compile a list of all the financial scandals of the churches for the last couple of decades. Not just PTL. One big tv church in California took the money it had raised for the starving children of Ethiopia in the 1980's and used it to buy the church leader's son a luxurious mansion. And then had the arrogance to defend this. And Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have both been involved in some funny money transactions.
sekmet | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:38 pm | #
Why? What point are you trying to make?
Sekmet--check out the Church on the Way in Van Nuys. Admittedly, CA's laundry list of whackjob churches is very, very long.
(Guarantee void in Tennessee.)
Think we know who's responsible for that!
Hey, Vicki. How's it going. In between reading the thread, which goes pretty quickly when you scroll on by the shit for brains' comments, I've been working on a challenge quilt. But it aint going well.
How bout you?
I'm tempted to go to the mini-Eschaton meet up tonight, but almost would rather not meet some of my favorite posters. I still have an hour or two to make up my mind.
Oh, oh.. I was looking at the comments above - reading my way up and I see there's been a troll feeding frenzy. Time to stop feeding them, again. They can go elsewhere to get their chow.
It's not just to prevent the government from being ruined by religion, it's also to prevent religion from being ruined by government.
Phila
indeed a very good point, even my fundie whacked brother vaguely understands this concept.
unfortunately, he holds no political power. then there is the whole mob rule aspect.
slip slid'n away... i hate paul simon.
Sorry I’m feeding the trolls. But if they are not faced up to, they’ll simply go back to wherever it is they came from and claim that we could not address their arguments, which is simply not the case.
>Geoffrey#1 (responding to criciism [sic] of the Iraq war)
>Lied? Now half the world, including your own party, lied to you?
>Talk about your straw men.
Democrats who voted for the Iraq resolution assumed Bush had ironclad evidence of WMD. They did not know they were being deceived at the time. Also, they assumed the post-hostilities and post-Saddam situation had been well planned for. Had they been able to predict the resultant mess that actually happened, they wouldn’t have supported the resolution.
>Geoffrey#2
>created 262,000 [jobs] last month. That was an easy question. Ask
>another.
Yeah, not a bad number. Still, many analysts were disappointed with some of the other numbers that came out.
“But all of the details were not as strong as the headline number suggested. The unemployment rate rose to 5.4 percent in February from January's 5.2 percent. The length of the average workweek was unchanged at 33.7 hours, and so were hourly earnings at $15.90, after a five-cent gain in January.”
Link: http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/04/...bonds/
index.htm
We’ll see if the jobs growth is sustainable. If it is, it will be great for American workers. But there are a lot of bad fundamental numbers in this economy: debt, trade-deficit, interest rates rising, high oil, health care and education costs spiraling upward. Not the peachiest scenario…
>Geoffrey#3
>7. The rich funding the poor
>8. Welfare state
>9. Minority dependance [sic]
7-9 are the same meme. Old whines about having to live in an actual society. I thought welfare reform largely solved item 9. I guess when you are a right winger, when you see a minority you automatically assume that the person is dependent on the state. You should ask them sometime before you make such assumptions.
>10. Public insecurity
>11. Mandated Class Lines
I don’t know what either of these two things is supposed to refer to. If you are talking about class warfare, all I can say is that the existence of people who are working their asses off and still in poverty is evidence that a class war of some kind is already occurring.
>Geoffrey#4 (and follow ups on same topic)
>The difference being it's my tax dollars paying the salaries of the hate
>spewing anti-Americans. Would you like to see Government payrolled
>Pastors in all the local churches?
Universities are marketplaces of ideas where participants are free to bring up whatever ideas they want to. However, these ideas need to stand up to logic and evidence or they are not going to go very far. Even networks of like-minded academics are not going to last long if their ideas do not stand up to scrutiny. History has shown this again and again (e.g. vitalism, eugenics, objections to plate tectonics)
Hi QL NY...Is that meet-up open to all, or is it invite-only? If the former, where/when is it?
P.S. I may want to keep the mystery going for while, too, maybe until EschaCon.
I often wonder if we need to go to fundie churches on sundays and stand outside them, blockade them, and yell at the kooks "there is no god" "you are suffering from a delusion" etc. so they could get a taste of their own medicine.
They like to stand at abortion clinics and tell women they are going to hell, they like to show up at gay pride events and yell nasty things, I wonder how far we'd get if we engaged in similar tactics, not too far I'd wager.
I have never once heard of anyone being denied the right to pray anywhere, anytime in the US, one can bow one's head and say a prayer 24/7. But they kooks want the chance to force everyone else to deal with their religion by making public displays, skirting the law via right wing groups like the ACLJ, and making an official religion out of a narrow sectarian form of christianity.
Were the chrsitians to wholeheartedly support the right of pagans to display pagan symbols and such on public property they would have a stronger case, but rememebr the stink the nuts made a few years ago about the pagans in the military holding rituals on bases?
On a different note, I wonder what the reaction of the right wing nutjobs would be were the IRaqi insurgents to capture some GIs and subject them to the various Bush-junta approved "not torture" methods, videotape it, and then run the tape via the media.
You know, some good ol' water boarding, some stress positions, some hooded beatings, some "simulated" blow jobs, some long term sleep deprivation, some canine bites, etc.
Maybe the insurgents could ship their POWs off to Syria for some real torture and then claim they were not engaging in torture?
Oh, I am sure we would see nukes deployed then...
METEOROLOGICAL REPORT: Albuquerque, NM, Sat, March 5, 2005, 1:30 pm, MST
Mostly cloudy, scattered sunshine.
Temp: 52 F
Precip since midnight: @.10 inch
Pollen counts are climbing rapidly, especially mulberry, juniper & cedar as the weather moderates.
We could get a frost above 6000 feet until mid-May...just sayin
If we can't make a deal, i'll eat a bug!
Tena;
you got it right -- it's the missionary zeal and busybody in the evangelicals that drives me nuts.
remainder of comments:
Professors who say stupid things that they cannot substantiate suffer the consequences in many ways (declining enrollment in classes, papers rejected from prestigious publications, low book sales, lack of promotions) but they have academic freedom, which is fundamental to a university. Any university that fires professors because of public pressure regarding something that professor said (provided the statement itself wasn’t illegal such as unauthorized transmission of classified documents) has no academic integrity at all.
Sorry, academia is different from churches. In order for universities to get public money they have to write grants that will demonstrate that the money is going toward the greater public good, irrespective of peoples’ religious beliefs. Legislation that sends taxpayer money to universities has to demonstrate the same thing or it will not pass. Faith based charities are too tied to specific religious beliefs to be able to guarantee this, in my opinion. Note that many colleges with religious founding and ongoing religious operation (e.g. Notre Dame, Baylor) do receive public grant money for academic/research projects that are in the broad public interest. I have no problem with this.
Sorry I’m feeding the trolls. But if they are not faced up to, they’ll simply go back to wherever it is they came from and claim that we could not address their arguments, which is simply not the case.
They'll do that no matter what. That's what they're paid for.
Get hip, baby!
Just don't look! Just don't look!
Res Ipsa Loquitor, I would love here about this guy. This is going to be very important real soon. Bush wants to give millions of dollars to people who have a history of stealing funds and violating their followers' trust. I mean using fed funds to build churches is just disgusting. They are supposed to help people not blow dough on some megachurch building. And how much you bet that the contractors won't be in on the loot too.
QL in NY ~
All is well. Life moves along gracefully for me.
Pssst ~ go to the meet-up! You'll enjoy yourself!
Res Ipsa - His name is Ole Anthony. He has a ministry of his own - but his main task is exposing the liars, frauds and conmen that evangelism keeps producing.
And I agree with you about Haiti.
sekmet ... Hold on. Will find it for you. Back in a few.
From TomDispatch, the state of "journalism" in Iraq.
Deborah Amos, threw up her hands and declared that, between escalating dangers and American military control over reporting, the state of Iraq was essentially an unreportable story for American journalists. "When you read a news report, look at the second line. More and more you will find it reads: ‘according to the U.S. military' or ‘according to officials.'" She added, "You can no longer just rely on your news du jour, whether it's NPR or the New York Times," and went on to describe NPR's offices in Iraq in this way: "She said most NPR reporters are holed up in a compound on a hilltop that resembles a base for a Colombian drug lord. The guarded compound has a vault that journalists can step into if ‘they' come to get them."
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index...?emx=x&
pid=2241
When Chimpy McAWOL is doing bad, the trolls start to swarm, so I think all this slime is a good thing.
Remember how quite they were after the election?
So, can anybody explain to me how "Look! We have pictures of Zarqawi!" can in any way be considered "news"?
Troll shields, activate.
Dave--I confess. I love Cal Worthington and his dog Spot
Res - I wasn't invited, but I understand it was kind of loose arrangement and 17 are going, including some whose names are not recognizable, so I imagine that pretty much anyone could go. We may not be allowed to sit with the "in" group, but could probably wrangle a table close by. The menu looks like it is an informal type of restaurant.
What happens when Bush really focuses on something....
UN Inspectors:
90 Dangerous Sites Looted in Iraq
Sat Mar 5, 6:54 AM
By Evelyn Leopold
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Some 90 sites in Iraq that the United Nations had monitored for unconventional arms materials have been razed or looted since the U.S. intervention, according to a new U.N. inspection report.
The U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), created to track Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, based its conclusion in a Friday report on satellite imagery from sites with material that had weapons potential.
Archibald--well said.
sekmet ... Found it. Article is called, "God Doesn't Need Ole Anthony," by Burkhard Bilger. It appeared in the 12/06/04 issue of the NYer.
Hey, Tena. Every time I see photos from Haiti I want to crawl under a table. Recent set I saw showed a woman making "bread" out of flour, water, and (seriously) dirt.
And as I refresh the page, my comment was #420. What are the odds? rofl
Ripley
It's a sign from god!
I confess. I love Cal Worthington and his dog Spot.
Go see Cal, go see Cal, go see Cal!
And as I refresh the page, my comment was #420.
Farm out, man...
The New Yorker did a profile of Anthony a month or so ago. It's probably available on their web site.
Anthony and a columnist for the Dallas Morning News spearheaded the drive to run Robert Tilton out of Dallas. He was running a huge televangelist conjob here. He had people sending prayer requests to him wrapped in dollar bills and the requests went straight into the trash. Robert didn't know one fucking thing about the Bible and lived in a mansion on an estate and collected expensive cars.
Archibald:
Democrats who voted for the Iraq resolution assumed Bush had ironclad evidence of WMD. They did not know they were being deceived at the time. Also, they assumed the post-hostilities and post-Saddam situation had been well planned for. Had they been able to predict the resultant mess that actually happened, they wouldn’t have supported the resolution.
That's dishonest. I'm sure you realize that. It's also two seperate comments. First, just about every intelligence resource thought Saddam had WMD. The Democrats who saw the intelligence thought Saddam had WMD. You can easily call Bush wrong, but to call him a liar isn't accurate. Second, If most people knew what the resultant mess was going to be they wouldn't have supported it. I wouldn't have, anyway, and I'd think differently of anyone who did.
Yeah, not a bad number. Still, many analysts were disappointed with some of the other numbers that came out.
Disappointment is far different than the doom and gloom portrayal I responded to.
I guess when you are a right winger, when you see a minority you automatically assume that the person is dependent on the state. You should ask them sometime before you make such assumptions.
Actually, that wasn't my assumption. Either you read into it, or I didn't express myself clearly. I was referring to the left's attempt to make it so, not accusing them of being so.
Universities are marketplaces of ideas where participants are free to bring up whatever ideas they want to. However, these ideas need to stand up to logic and evidence or they are not going to go very far. Even networks of like-minded academics are not going to last long if their ideas do not stand up to scrutiny. History has shown this again and again (e.g. vitalism, eugenics, objections to plate tectonics)
I agree. So what is the problem with the taxpayers removing the proponents of ideas that don't stand up?
Good afternoon, fellow moonbats! How's stuff all 'round?
QL in NY, I don't think you were "not invited." NTodd had a post on his site the other day saying he was going to be in NYC and wondered who would like to get together. I wouldn't take it personally.
I'm sure you would have been welcomed. You are an "in" person.
Well, lookie here . . . Been off watching "Bambi" with my kid and come in and find trolls name stealing. What a surprise. Looks like the trolls are really out of control, 'cause lately they seem crazier than shithouse rats when it comes to getting their "point" across.
Anyway . . . trolls, rethugs, Nazis--they're all scumbags. Can't stand change, so they gotta stick with what they know. Only problem is they're dumber than shit, so what they know ain't a hell of a lot. Why they have to try and force their ignorance on us is beyond me, though. Must make them feel like they're important.
Scumbags . . . all of them.
Since this thread has basically been derailed by assholes like you, I'm outta here.
And, that being one of their primary goals, they are well-fed and happy. I acknowledge that there is the occasional troll who attempts to engage in some sort of debate or discussion (and thus is not really a troll in my book), but he or she is a rare species. The vast majority seem to come either to stir up lefties for the sheer joy of it or to be a disruptive presence to keep anything from being accomplished (or so I infer, based on their common behaviors.)
In any case, we collectively seem unable to resist the baiting. I also think that usually there is only so much to say on a given topic; hence the always enjoyable digressions into music, movies, pets, family, and so on. But I wonder whether that's also when people start engaging the trolls.
So my suggestion is that we exercise some kind of self-restraint for the first X number of comments, after which argue with whom you will. I don't know what X should be, and it likely varies quite a bit by topic. I do know that many threads in the past week seem to have been rendered unreadable by people arguing with trolls. There is no way to win that fight; even by engaging in it you have lost. People, did we learn nothing from War Games?
A typical troll response to this perspective is "Wah wah wah - you liberals are so close-minded and insecure you can't even debate your beliefs." Let them bloviate; just remember, they don't want or engage in anything resembling honest debate- your words have no effect on their thinking or behavior; that's what makes them trolls.
All I'm suggesting is that we all hold off on the attacks and responses till after some time has passed for actual discussion. Yes it requires skipping over and ignoring certain posts, but I do that now anyway. Other ideas?
If we can't make a deal, i'll eat a bug!
Cal | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:44 pm | #
What type of bug are you willing to eat? Also, is this a way to practice for your tryout for some "reality show?"
And hoping to see something good come out of all the horror. I'm skeptical because good things generally don't flow from lies and wholesale slaughter. But I still have hopes for the Iraqis.
Tena
well said, and i don't care how beautiful it could turn out(not likely), but george bush, will still be a torturing, moral fuckwit, willing to subvert the constitution for personal power, and to continue his reign based on FEAR!
i resent that.
On a different note, I wonder what the reaction of the right wing nutjobs would be were the IRaqi insurgents to capture some GIs and subject them to the various Bush-junta approved "not torture" methods, videotape it, and then run the tape via the media.
Steveboy,
I'd prefer that to their current practice of cutting their heads off.
Tena ... Wasn't he the one who said he need "his 'n her" jets for he and the missus?
Your tax $$ hard at work:
Bush Sets Up Social Security 'War Room'
By LAURA MECKLER, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - A new Social Security war room inside the Treasury Department is pumping out information to sell President Bush's plan, much like any political campaign might do. It's part of a coordinated effort by the Bush administration.
The internal, taxpayer-funded campaigning is backed up by television advertisements, grass-roots organizing and lobbying from business and other groups that support the Bush plan.
(snip)
[This is my favorite line - Ed.]
"The uber purpose is to centralize and coordinate the administration's public affairs and communication activities," said chief Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols. "Standing up this office demonstrates how important fixing Social Security is."
more here
Old White Lady--Cal has been a staple of late night TV in LA for only about forever. His 'dog Spot' changes constantly, and his famous 'I'll eat a bug' is local folklore.
QL ... Thanks, I think I will wait for EschaCon. What's a quilt challenge?
BTW -- I read a few months back that not a single Jewish or Muslim group had been given "Faith Based" funding -- don't know if that it is still true, but I suspect it is
A lot of Episcopal Churches in the cities run soup kitchens -- if we had a decent government they wouldn't have to -- but the Episcopal Church that the preznit attends (when he goes to church in DC it is usually St. John's, across the street from the White House) locks its dumpsters to keep the homeless away -- your compassionate conservative faith based intiative at work
"The uber purpose is to centralize and coordinate the administration's public affairs and communication activities," said chief Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols. "Standing up this office demonstrates how important fixing Social Security is."
So say the Ubermench. These guys really need to get out of the basement. Then again, maybe not.
We may not be allowed to sit with the "in" group, but could probably wrangle a table close by.
QLinNY:
what the hell?
Just show-up! Usually, participants here (of whom you are and seem to me to have been a valued voice) are most noticed (and noticeable) in their absences....
'Sides, if anybody on this board starts getting uppity, pretentin' they're somehow 'superior' to others whose interests, passions and/or politics they share, it's probably time to search out a new forum.
I know I would...who wants to hang around with that kind of jerk?
Not saying any of the folks so implicated are even in that class of folks...i doubt they are, actually...
just sayin...
...they don't want or engage in anything resembling honest debate- your words have no effect on their thinking or behavior; that's what makes them trolls.
And that's what the Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend is all about, Charlie Brown!
Back to you, Chuck Cannon!
Cereal Breath (eeww) I also saw a local Muslim who was waiting for fireworks display take out prayer rug and pray solo.
Sorry - Res Ipsa - we must have crossed posts on the New Yorker article.
What gets me and always has is the huge number of people willing to let themselves be conned. That's always been true, which is why the religious con game is so fucking profitable. And it's a learned art - there are literally people in parts of the country who pass the elements of the con on to the next generation. They also use the same handful of unscrupulous lawyers.
"The uber purpose is to centralize and coordinate the administration's public affairs and communication activities," said chief Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols. "Standing up this office demonstrates how important fixing Social Security is."
Bwahahahahaha!!!
Ah-yup. By crackie, when you want to show you're serious about doing something, coordinate your P.R.
These fools couldn't tell truth if their money depended on it. Let's hope ultimately that it does.
Thanks, Res Ipsa Loquitor. I will look at it.
We may not be allowed to sit with the "in" group, but could probably wrangle a table close by.
Hey, QL,
I'm sure the restaurant can pull up another chair or two! From what Steve Simels (who lives upstairs) says, they don't usually have large groups. I'm sure they'd love to accommodate us.
Come on in, the water's fine!
BTW -- I read a few months back that not a single Jewish or Muslim group had been given "Faith Based" funding -- don't know if that it is still true, but I suspect it is
A lot of Episcopal Churches in the cities run soup kitchens -- if we had a decent government they wouldn't have to -- but the Episcopal Church that the preznit attends (when he goes to church in DC it is usually St. John's, across the street from the White House) locks its dumpsters to keep the homeless away -- your compassionate conservative faith based intiative at work
Prior Aelred | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:57 pm | #
What you should have said was "I oh so badly want it to be true so it will prove my point".
Unfortunately, it isn't. If you'd bothered to educate yourself before you spoke, you'd have seen Muslim and Jewish groups have received funding.
and what WGG said!
Res Ipsa,
Where in NYC are you?
What will happen with faith based charities is that only the faithful will be helped. Starving and cold but Catholic, sorry, don't even bother requesting help from a fundie group. Right now they are able to discriminate in hiring, soon it will be in their program activities. With no government oversight.
Res - everyone is given a quarter yard of the same fabric and comes up with their own design. The store displays the mini-quilts for a month and people vote on the best, which usually means she with the most friends wins. But, it is fun and a stretch.
Old White Lady--Cal has been a staple of late night TV in LA for only about forever. His 'dog Spot' changes constantly, and his famous 'I'll eat a bug' is local folklore.
Sallyh | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 3:57 pm | #
Excellent! I enjoyed the phrase. It's really funny.
prior- i should know but i've not researched it: how does one qualify for funding? i'm serious. they can't turn someone down because they're not xtian, i'm sure that's got to be true. is it competitive, like academic funding? or just the usual cronyism that we've come to know and love from chimpy?
hi to all freethinkers and fellow eschatonians! i have good news today.
charley - Oh I don't credit that cretin Bush with anything other than lies, damn lies and wholesale looting and slaughter. Anything good that comes out of all of it will have been created by the people themselves, making the most of a nightmare.
Hell, in Baghdad they still only have electricity for 2 hours out of every 4 during the day. And we've occupied that country for how long now?
BTW -- I read a few months back that not a single Jewish or Muslim group had been given "Faith Based" funding -- don't know if that it is still true, but I suspect it is
=================================
I read this too. To bad we don't have a media that is interested in investigating this.
...if anybody on this board starts getting uppity, pretentin' they're somehow 'superior' to others whose interests, passions and/or politics they share, it's probably time to search out a new forum.
I think she's more concerned about squeezing into the restaurant than being shunned by the meet-uppers.
However, according to Steve Simels, said restaurant hasn't really been packing 'em in lately... so go for it!
watertiger ... Capital of the liberal elite: Manhattan.
Hey, her eyes! What good news?
her eyes - I want to hear the good news! What is it?
hi to all freethinkers and fellow eschatonians! i have good news today.
Do say, then.
I read this too. To bad we don't have a media that is interested in investigating this.
QL in NY | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 4:04 pm | #
We do, and it's been posted in this thread.
If we can't make a deal, i'll eat a bug!
Cal
Great. Now I can't get that stupid jingle out of my head.
steveeboy - Good points.
When it comes to fundies, we are dealing with a group that by their very nature denies the right of others to exist. Buddhist? Pagan? Muslim? Hop on the conveyor belt to Hell, buddy! (see the Jack Chick cartoon linked by kei&yuri)
Fundamentalist anything (be it Christianity, Islam, or Blue Bunny Worship) that denies other groups the status of worthy and complete human beings is persecutory.
Yet if denied the opportunity to place a spiritually significant rock on government grounds, the cry is "come see the persecution inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being opressed!"
Dickriculous.
-
I like spot's dung beetles best!
Res Ipsa,
Uptown or downtown? I'm thinking about starting up a NYC Blogger's alliance, just for the hell of it.
i'm so happy! my nephew is home from his stint in iraq. safe and sound. we are so fortunate to have him home with us. he's been over there since the beginning.
I'm sure you would have been welcomed. You are an "in" person
==============================
Thanks, I really am not insulted, just kind of amused. These things are best kept loose. I'll catch y'all the next time.
Fielding Mellish--Blue Bunny Ice Cream worship: is it wrong?
ai-yah, I have to go get my clothes out of the dryer. spill, her eyes, spill!
clean sheets.
her eyes,
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
Her Eyes--wonderful news. I'm so grateful to hear this.
QL... Being "crafty," as Rosie O'Donnell would say, you will appreciate this ...
I got some yarn and knitted a scarf. Really beautiful color, but the sides rolled so that it was more like a tube than a scarf. My friend Adrienne, who is *really* crafty, tells me how I screwed up. So I unfurl the whole thing and re-knit it. Still rolls like a tube. I think I'll stick to needlepoint.
Just refreshed. New thread above. What if everyone ignored the trolls for one solid thread?
Good news always pleasing to Ba'al.
More pleasing when he knows what it is.
so happy for our family...so sad for 1500 others.
Fielding Mellish--Blue Bunny Ice Cream worship: is it wrong?
Sallyh
No, not wrong...never...
Of course not...
Follow your joy, even a Blue Bunny...
but it CAN get messy...
watertiger ... uptown. westside.
That's great to hear, her eyes.
Just refreshed. New thread above. What if everyone ignored the trolls for one solid thread?
mer | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 4:08 pm | #
Heh. You guys say that every thread. You never do it, though.
It's funny that you label anyone that thinks differently than you a "troll", though.
That's pretty tolerant.
Res Ipsa - on the his and hers jets - I don't remember. I wouldn't be surprised, since he and his wife "Marty" were partners in the con. She left him when he got run out of town, IIRC.
thanks everyone! we're giving him a week to be home with his parents and then the whole family will descend!
oh, lighten up geofrey.
i have an idea! you and jeff guckert!
geofrey and jeffy! what cute couple!
maybe you, gordo and jeff! you and gordo could split the cost of jeffy's weekend fee!
sorry toby, but they won't be taking you with them! because you are a loser!
that is the way that it is.
A toast to her eyes!
Some excellent remarks, JeffCo.
It's clear that some people here only exist (in the virtual, online sense) to boast of their own intolerance of the heterodoxy. This is because these people are saddled with second-rate minds and the only thought that occurs to them is that they must shout down people whom they are conditioned to reject. So they lash out with "Troll!" because they are incapable of doing more.
It's boring. It's worse than someone coming in and taking a dump on the buffet. Which, in practically all cases, would go unnoticed if the second-rate minds infesting Eschaton had better sense. Not just the sense to know not to engage puerile bullshit, but the sense to know when they have a good opportunity to show their stuff. Most of the losers around here don't even have the sense to recognize mere shit-flingers.
So all we get is "Frist!" and "Buck Fush!"?
And I'm the problem? Get the fuck out of here!
All the boss jocks at the Ignore the Moronic Brownshirt Fucks Million-Dollar Weekend extend best wishes to her eyes and her family!
Tena ... Just looked at the article. It was someone named Kenneth Copeland who required the jets. Do you know of him?
oh, lighten up geofrey.
i have an idea! you and jeff guckert!
geofrey and jeffy! what cute couple!
maybe you, gordo and jeff! you and gordo could split the cost of jeffy's weekend fee!
sorry toby, but they won't be taking you with them! because you are a loser!
that is the way that it is.
your friend | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 4:13 pm | #
You fantasize about me far more than is healthy.
If we can't make a deal, i'll eat a bug!
Cal
Great. Now I can't get that stupid jingle out of my head.
Fielding Mellish | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 4:05 pm
Has this ever happened to you? Here at the Brain-Paralyzing Song Institute, we can help.
Please choose one of our fine options:
1. It's A Small World After All (the well-beloved classic)
2. My name is Yon Yohnson, I vas born in Visconsin....
3. My Baby Takes The Morning Train
4. Crimson and Clover, over and over....
5. The Irish Ballad (sing rickety, tickety, tin)
6. Ice Ice Baby
7. Any "happy birthday" song, from any restaurant chain, that isn't actually "Happy Birthday", especially if there's lots of hand-clapping involved, which there always is
8. Dancin' With Myself, oh-oh-oh...
9. Mah-nah-mah-nah (deet-deee-de-dee-dee)
10. The theme from The Jetsons (BPSI expressly avoids using the themes from the Flintstones, the Beverly Hillbillies, Gilligan's Island, and Green Acres, because they're, well, good)
For all your brain-paralyzing song needs, there's only one place to call: Brain-Paralyzing Song Institute! And if you act now, we'll throw in "Can You Feel The Love Tonight?" from Disney's The Lion King at no extra cost!
Call 1-800-MAKEITSTOP! That's 1-800-MAKEITSTOP! Call today!
her eyes - Yay! I'm so happy for y'all. That is wonderful.
her eyes, that's great. Big sigh of relief and hugs all 'round.
Catch you on the clean sheets, all.
For all you Cal Worthington fans...!
He's still at it, btw...
tough to get a straight answer on the FBI funding by sect.
Conveniently, the WH keeps no records that break down the money by sect.
Ampel evidence exists that jewish groups get cash, coudl not find evidence vis a vis muslims or pagans, or any otehr group.
Also, some cash goes to groups that do not include their religious views in the program, some cash goes to groups that were funded for years, and some cash goes to groups that sound religious, but are not chruch affiliated.
Also, in the typical GOP scam, it appears that some cash is being placed into FBI programs while at the same time other, larger, more longstanding funding is being cut drastically.
The only info I could find on muslims was related to the controversy surround the NOI and whether or not they should get money for security work and such.
Call 1-800-MAKEITSTOP! That's 1-800-MAKEITSTOP! Call today!
filkertom
I'm glad that's a toll free number, because now I've got all of those songs in my head.
Genoa:
Please define clergy more narrowly.
No points for timidity, weasel.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:50 pm | #
I beg your pardon? What does timidity have to do with anything? I am asking for a clarification of the question you asked, and your response is to be insulting?
Toby, that is trolling.
Maybe Atrios should open a rightwing dating service. They could come here and find companions.
Elaine Supkis | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 1:10 pm | #
Is that a proposal Elaine? I'm free tonight.
Gordon the Magnificent
"Because tonight is just like any other night, that's why you're on your own tonight..."
Genoa:
I beg your pardon? What does timidity have to do with anything? I am asking for a clarification of the question you asked, and your response is to be insulting?
Horseshit. You don't want to answer the question I originally posted because the only outcome for you is to be proved wrong. So, you obfuscate with bite-sized questions that somewhat mimic the logical progression of a rebuttal. Sorry. No sale.
Toby, that is trolling.
Okay.
Filkertom, how could you leave out The Munsters? That song gets me for days at a time.
her eyes
That's great news!
Fielding Mellish--Blue Bunny Ice Cream worship: is it wrong?
Sallyh
Only if you deviate from the accepted flavors, use a heretical utensil, or post graven images of the Blue Bunny. In which case, Jack Chick draws a pamphlet about you.
WGG - I hear you were in Catch-22? Too Cool! Which scenes - I'd love to watch for you, if you don't mind.
-
Another Bruce -- no, no, no need to thank me.
funny that on FR or LGF any contrary view is immediately pulled and erased.
All done with pics of kitties and lightning bolts, people screaming "ZOT," and immediately contacting the moderator to get the thread pulled, etc.
funny too that if you post anything there that in the least challenges the party line you get all sorts of paranoid remarks challenging when you signed up, if you are a lib, whether you can be "trusted," etc.
At one point I asked for proof that GW Bush ever signed the legendary Form 180 to release all his military records--the same form teh swift boat liars were harping on kerry to sign. I got told that Bush did, I asked for documentation, perhaps a copy of the form form online? All I got was a transcript of rush limbaugh and Hannity saying he signed it. Or, I got told over and over that "the president said to release all his records so they were released." I asked again for real proof, in response I got banned and the thread was pulled.
The coverage of Jeff Gannon/Suckert over there was quite illustrative, they refused to post the photos and text from suckert's gay whore web sites, they claimed it was all a set up, they claimed he was planted by the LIBERALS, etc.
Totally divorced from reality.
They brook no contrary views there, they just send it all down the "memory hall" like the fascists they truly are...
so, you closeted bear leather daddies are lucky to exist long enough here to be told "Fuck off."
your kook pals provide no such forum for contrarians on their sites.
i aln't fantasizing about you geoffy! i'm trying to help! and this is the thanks i get! a snide putdown!
man, try to help a conservative and you just make an enemy. fuck, it ain't worth it!
but toby, they still aren't going to take you with!
It's rob again, innit?
It's (Brownshirt R) again, innit?
All three - at least!
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 4:28 pm | #
Your language and level of civility are deteriorating, Toby. You may want to watch that temper. It tends to further undermine the credibility of your not yet credible argument.
You don't want to answer the question I originally posted because the only outcome for you is to be proved wrong.
This statement is illogical because if you will refer to the original question you asked me -here is a reminder for youDo you think the US Congress should employ clergy to bless their activities?
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.05.05 - 2:41 pm | # --the question asked what I think Toby, and therefore, no matter what I answer, I cannot be wrong.
So again, I would ask you to clarify your question, as I don't traffic in sweeping generalizations.
And try to answer the question without being insulting this time. It's hard to carry on civilized discourse in the face of such incivility bent in my direction.
Thank you.
Genoasail:
the question asked what I think Toby, and therefore, no matter what I answer, I cannot be wrong.
Is this how moral relativism starts?
Both houses of Congress employ chaplains, Genoa. That's with your tax dollars.
Your money has had "In God We Trust" on every denomination I know of since the Civil War.
The Supreme Court invokes God's blessing at the opening of each session.
Every President since Washington has invoked God in the course of taking the Oath of Office.
Our greatest Presidents have openly called on God's blessings. Lincoln certainly did. FDR, Reagan, Wilson, McKinley ---they all did.
Are you saying that all of these things are extraconstitutional? Are you really put upon by the practice of others' religion? I'm not ---and I'm an atheist.
I'll be honest. I don't like how Islam operates. I think it is a menace. And, as far as I'm concerned, if Christianity serves some purpose in my country's hegemonic plans, I am all for it.
But Christianity is really a cultural and historical fact in this country. It is ignorant and silly to deny that it has a right to be expressed wherever appropriate.
And, as far as I'm concerned, if Christianity serves some purpose in my country's hegemonic plans, I am all for it.
What a good little German you are.
Seraphiel:
What a good little German you are.
What a dhimmi dumbass you are. Tell me something about Islam that you find personally beneficial.
Sallyh – Thanks!
Geoffrey:
That's dishonest. I'm sure you realize that. It's also two seperate [sic] comments.
First, just about every intelligence resource thought Saddam had WMD. The
Democrats who saw the intelligence thought Saddam had WMD. You can
easily call Bush wrong, but to call him a liar isn't accurate. Second, If most
people knew what the resultant mess was going to be they wouldn't have
supported it. I wouldn't have, anyway, and I'd think differently of anyone
who did.
my response:
I doubt that even Dems on the intelligence committees had access to all of the “intelligence.” Especially when Cheney had an office set up in the Pentagon to interpret intelligence in the way it saw fit, which served to promote attacking Iraq.
Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/
S...,999737,00.html
And many many others (Google: Office of Special Plans Iraq)
Are you telling me that everything the OSP had was communicated to House and Senate Democrats? Very doubtful. It’s also doubtful that the congressional committees saw the raw intelligence. Most likely it was carefully cooked in whichever way the briefers (WH and Pentagon) saw fit. Also, there were many people questioning the “cakewalk” concept that Wolfowitz et al. were promulgating about both the war and the peace during the runup to the invasion. If the Senators had known (like the OSP must have) just how thready the “intelligence” was, they would have questioned the war and postwar plans much more closely.
Geoffrey:
Actually, that wasn't my assumption. Either you read into it, or I didn't express myself clearly. I was referring to the left's attempt to make it so, not accusing them of being so.
my response:
It’s dishonest to claim that people on the left want to create dependency. The idea of welfare, Medicaid, and other programs is to help people through rough times. The left also supports efforts to eliminate root causes of poverty, which are also routinely opposed by the Social Darwinists on the right.
Geoffrey:
I agree. So what is the problem with the taxpayers removing the proponents of ideas that don't stand up?
my response:
It’s not done by firing professors. It’s done by becoming a trained member of the appropriate academic community and advancing your argument in the discourse of the field, with peer-review of data and analysis. Academic freedom means you are free to advance your views without fear of losing your job. If professors had to worry about losing their jobs for advancing an unpopular argument or pursuing unpopular hypotheses, research would be stifled, and intellectual, technological, and economic decline would soon follow. (Google: Lysenkoism)
Tell me something about Islam that you find personally beneficial.
About as much as I find personally beneficial about any other religion.
Which is to say, not much.
But when you say this:
And, as far as I'm concerned, if Christianity serves some purpose in my country's hegemonic plans, I am all for it.
it is no different at all from Osama bin Laden shrouding his hateful messages in the trappings of Islam, nor any different from Hitler using Christian religious references to rally the German people behind his cause.
Your money has had "In God We Trust" on every denomination I know of since the Civil War.
The Civil War was still going in 1966?
http://www.treas.gov/education/f...-we-
trust.shtml
Just about every intelligence resource thought Saddam had WMD.
Oh yes, the Animal House defence - "You fucked up - you trusted us."
Believing the lie makes you as guilty as the liar in RepublicanWorld. And 'Ownership Society' Bush has yet to hold himself accountable for this giant fuckup. Just as no-one was ever fired for the gross-negligence security failures of 9/11.
Thanks for the correction and the excellent link, Turbonium.
But I think my larger point stands: for as long as this country has existed, the notion of God has been acknowledged by the Government itself. That would be the Judeo-Christian God, except maybe to early citizens like Jefferson and Franklin.
The anti-Christian Left ought to just give the Christians these small tokens unless they can offer up a reasonable case that such concessions actually lead to the diminution of their own secular rights.
But Christianity is really a cultural and historical fact in this country. It is ignorant and silly to deny that it has a right to be expressed wherever appropriate.
The native Indians were Christians?
In fact, the founding fathers wanted religion to have nothing to do with the country, or at the very least the running of it. How long ago was the "under God" bullshit added?
You've been lied to if you believe that the US is somehow "based" on Christianity.
Reagan hardly fits on a list of our "greatest" presidents.
PUH-leese!
for as long as this country has existed, the notion of God has been acknowledged by the Government itself
Flat out lie.
"Self-important (and self-defeating) multiculturalism?"
Terry, who is a girl, says
:That doesn't even make sense. Is every MURKAN supposed to look the same, act the same, think the same.....?
Why the contempt for The Other, Terry? What is your problem with Southerners? Sounds intolerant to me.
Toby Petzold
(a) It's WOMAN, not GIRL.
(b) I said nothing about Southerners. If you are talking about the "MURKAN" thing, that's the way the pseudo-Texas, Preznit Jerkoff, pronounces it.
And fuck Bush!
With O'Liely's vibrator!
Is this how moral relativism starts?
No, I believe how moral relativism started was with the Greeks, but I could be mistaken. Maybe if you define what you mean by moral relativism I could address that question more precisely.
Both houses of Congress employ chaplains, Genoa.
Toby, how does that come about? How does it come about each session that both houses employ chaplains? Does the chaplain show up as deemed in the constitution? Please enlighten me as to where in the constitution this is mandated. I will need to have a specific sighting before I am willing to give up the idea that what you claim is anything other than extraconstitutional.
Further, I never raised this subject. You did. You asked me what I thought about a matter. I asked for a clarification of the question. You were insulting. Then before I could answer a question which I am still lloking for specifics on, you went ahead with a diatribe, assuming a multitude of facts not in evidence about my beliefs regarding the expression of God, and supporting your ideas, which I have yet to fully discern their relavence, with a set of dubious observations, presented as fact.
But Christianity is really a cultural and historical fact in this country. It is ignorant and silly to deny that it has a right to be expressed wherever appropriate.
Praytell, Toby, when and where did I suggest either regarding the cultrual and historical facts of Christianity in this country, or denied anyone anywhere, a right to express that belief when, as you said, not I, it is appropriate.
Honestly, Toby, you are having a discussion with yourself here, as I have yet to find a topic in your previous post which has anything whatsoever to do with the origianl topic at hand, which was, what do democrats like.
As a democrat, I gave you a list of what I like, and you somehow thought yourself capable of grading it, as if that were possible. The fact of the matter is clear. I was speaking, with the permission of the deomcrats on this board, and begged the exclusion of those democrats on this board who disagreed, a list of what we liked. For you to go on and on having a discussion of your opinion of what democrats really do like and dislike is absurd. For you to launch off into another realm entirely for the sole purpose of posturing a platitudinizing is at the least boorish, and at the most, beyond your current argumentation capabilities.
Clearly, you are only interested in discussing whatever it is you feel like discussing, whether it is relevant to the the issue on the table or not. That's not discourse, Toby. I have tried for three posts to put you back on tipis, each time with less and less success.
Now, You are only succeeding in boring me.
Come back after you have taken a couple of more college courses. You have a decent mind, Toby, but it suffers from an inability to submit itself to the tests that only reason and logic and a temporary displaceme
temporary displacement of ego can provide. So finish your education and then com back to play with us. In the meantime, you are dismissed.
Good night, Toby.
And apoligies for the typos. It's getting rather late for me.
Again, good night.
Magnum:
The native Indians were Christians?
Who was talking about the aborigines?
In fact, the founding fathers wanted religion to have nothing to do with the country, or at the very least the running of it.
If that were true, then how do you explain all the examples I gave above? This nation's government has always associated itself with the Judeo-Christian God. If that makes you uncomfortable, then your tolerance training apparently didn't take hold.
How long ago was the "under God" bullshit added?
To the Pledge of Allegiance? I read somewhere it was during the Eisenhower Administration.
You've been lied to if you believe that the US is somehow "based" on Christianity.
Be specific, if you are able. Our Government isn't "based" on Christianity; it associates itself with it. Obviously.
Go anywhere in the world and ask someone what is the dominant religion in the United States. What do you think the answer will be?
Terry:
(a) It's WOMAN, not GIRL.
No, it's bait. For you. Thanks for biting.
(b) I said nothing about Southerners. If you are talking about the "MURKAN" thing, that's the way the pseudo-Texas, Preznit Jerkoff, pronounces it.
The President has been here since he was a little boy. The accent is genuine. Therefore, you are lying when you say you weren't talking about Southerners.
Both houses of Congress employ chaplains, Genoa.
Toby, how does that come about? How does it come about each session that both houses employ chaplains?
By virtue of precedent. It's a traditional thing ---as are a lot of aspects of Government rule that aren't enumerated in the Constitution.
(Who knew you liberal clowns were such strict constructionists?)
Does the chaplain show up as deemed in the constitution?
No. Are you opposed to state funerals, too, with all that sickening religiosity on the taxpayers' dime? Do you want to go deface the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorials with their disgusting references ---right out there for everyone to see!--- to God?
Please enlighten me as to where in the constitution this is mandated.
I think it's in the same section with Social Security and Medicare.
I will need to have a specific sighting before I am willing to give up the idea that what you claim is anything other than extraconstitutional.
As I say, for a liberal to demand that the Constitution in and of itself be all the law that rules us is absurd.
Toby, how does that come about? How does it come about each session that both houses employ chaplains?
By virtue of precedent. It's a traditional thing ---as are a lot of aspects of Government rule that aren't enumerated in the Constitution.
That answer is incorrect, Toby. They don't just walk into the beginning session of Congress and say, "Okay, so where's the Chaplain."
Now, Toby, you are just being lazy. Go and do some actual research and find out how each session a Chaplain comes to be employed and you will have a fair understanding of why I don't have a problem with it.
Again, after you take some classes and have an actual education, then come back.
Again, your lack of facts bores and is boorish. Insults to others and passion of beliefs are not a substitute for facts, Toby.
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