I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Fuck Bush!
I bet I'm second.
(head spins off its axis)
Whoo-Hoo! What an honor. Man, I'm dambed near breathless.
Every time I think I've hit the very bottom of my well of outrage, you go and post something else.
"I can't stand it. I just can't stand it."
--Charlie Brown
Don't get mad, some of the commentors here will take offense.
Uhhh...Terri Schaivo? WTF? Isn't this kind of a...contradiction?
Just make up your minds to by-God die when you're ready.
"If there is agreement on the part of all the physicians that the patient does have an irreversible, terminal illness," he said, "we're not going to drag this on forever ...
I noticed that inability to pay was the primary condition. Not that this shocks me.
Has T. Schiavo's feeding tube been reinserted yet?
Okay, now I get it: Republicans simply automatically oppose whatever it is the family wants. They're not inconsistent at all!
I was going to link to this one in the thread below, but the Chron notoriously takes forever to load, even on my broadband connection.
Once again, stepping in to take over what should be a private decision.
and let me guess, Terri Schiavo doesn't meet these criteria in the eyes of the Republicans.
I'm shocked. SHOCKED.
George W. Bush is a hypocrite.
And on that issue, the Republicans remained...
...
...silent.
If there's anything the fundies love more than bigotry, it's money. Goddess forbid private facilities not make as much profit as they and their stockholders should.
One more way to take power from the citizens.
Damn those paper trails! Why haven't they been scrubbed yet?
Want government out of your ...
Bedroom?
Marraige?
Death bed?
Vote Democrat in '06!
Gee, wonder if thar "excites their base."
No hypocrisy from the GOP there. After all, Bush is God's chosen, incapable of mistakes.
But I'm sure DeLay and Frist will be denouncing Bush and St. Luke's on the steps of the Capitol Building first thing Monday, right? If their schedules allow, of course.
Here's a link to when it's okay for the government to decide when to kill your child. Note the mother in the picture.
thar=that. Too much spring wine....
Yeah, but the law has a stipulation that it gets suspended if there's any political benefits of keeping the person alive. Learn to read, Atrios.
I posted this earlier but check out a post on billmon. Scroll down to the picture of a mom holding her baby. Hospital in TX got permission to disconnect against the mom's wishes.
Wow!
Uh... 9/11 changed everything?
What just kills me, almost more than anyone else, is that in a moral sanctified holy perfect hetero marriage, the kind the rethugs like so much, the SPOUSE is the NEXT OF KIN and so who the FUCK are the parents to get involved anyway?
My husband is having back surgery in the next week or so. You bet your ass we're signing the appropriate legal paperwork asap. When I heard what Congress was doing, I called the attorney who did our wills & let him know what was up. He was outraged and said he'll draw the paperwork up immediately. WILL IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF THE WORST HAPPENS? I DON'T FUCKING KNOW.
/shout
LJ
IF Schiavo were black we would never have heard of her.
Who says Rethugs can't believe two contradictory things at the same time.
Hint: It wasn't me.
tinfoil hattie ...
You both need:
1) Will
2) Durable power of attorney
3) Living will
4) Health care proxy
Good luck w/the operation.
Igor, dig up more corpses!
Scout Prime, if she were Muslim, she would be sent to Gitmo and tortured.
Scout:
No, we wouldn't have. It's sickening that it came to this, for anyone.
NTodd--I see you're just in time for the chocolate chip cookies(just coming out of the oven).
Tinfoil Hattie--wishing your beloved and you all the very best next week. I'll light a candle for you--I have confidence things will be well.
Elaine--that's Eyegor 
Sometimes, I think the Republicans live to say, "Yes, we won't kill 'em in the womb, but we sure will kill 'em when they come out! Especially if they're brown. Or not Xian."
So, the baby in Texas was black.
NO SURPRISE. The baby, if Scalia had his ways, would have been tortured and executed for wasting Texas tax dollars.
tinfoil hattie,
Sending health and luck to Mr. hattie.
Remember Robin Cook's book "Coma"? In it, they were harvesting parts from less important people for the rich. Hmmm.. why would I bring that up? It just flew into my mind for some reason.
So, you think this new revelation will hit the networks and the cable news shows tomorrow.
I'm sure tweety will be all over it.
A white corpse is worth more than a black one in Bushworld.
I posted this earlier but check out a post on billmon. Scroll down to the picture of a mom holding her baby. Hospital in TX got permission to disconnect against the mom's wishes.
Duh. Baby's black. In Texas.
Hmmmmm, where's religious redstater?????
Solyent Green also comes to mind here.
Old white Lady--wow, didn't think of that. I guess a rightie whitie might object to an organ from a person of color, however.
Res -- thanks for the "411" as the hip young kids say.
We have wills & the attorney is drawing up the living will & medical power of attorney/durable power of attorney (whichever is appropriate in VA). I will ask about the health care proxy. I think it may be rolled in to the medical power of attorney but I'll make sure. Also I guess we should add a 3rd party in case we are both injured together & neither can make decisions.
This whole thing just f-ing sucks & I think it's just the Republicans' way of reminding every person living in the U.S.: "All your freedoms are belong to us."
NTodd--I see you're just in time for the chocolate chip cookies(just coming out of the oven).
Damn, I wish I hadn't had all those Chips Ahoys...
I wonder where all the trolls are?
Fucking idiots.
That poor mother (on Billmon).
Have I mentioned tonight how much I hate these people?
Another thing, this guy here is named "Spiro" like in Spiro Agnew!
Another reason to pull the plug, eh?
watertiger
I must be spending too much time here.
We pulled into a burger place today and I momentarily read their sign as Wateriger, instead of Whataburger!
My girl friend even noticed my double take.
.
Depressing. I was born in that hospital. Now it seems to be some symbol of conservative hypocricy. Great.
So why aren’t Dems running to all the media outlets in the country , and shouting this from the hilltops?
The Republicans, and Bush are hypocrites, why not point it out to the people?
Res Ipsa--shhh. We don't want them to know we're here.
Two thoughts.
First, where the hell were all these hypocritical fucks last week when that baby in Texas had its life support pulled? All that was needed then was money to airlift that kid and his mom (who wanted the baby to live and was his only guardian) to decent hospital and pay the bills until ... whenever. But apparently no one was willing to to that. Gosh, I wonder why.
Second, there are people all over the country is situations similar to Schiavo's -- on necessary life support and about to have that life support pulled so they can die. Since Congress is going to such great lengths, why not "save" all those people too?
Between the fundamentalist creationist shit and the fundamentalist "we own pregnant women" shit and the fundamentalist "you must suffer until bacteria eat you inside out" shit, I'm beginning to suspect it's getting near the time when the non-fundies amongst us need to exercise our 2nd Amendment Rights. The First Amendment isn't going to be worth a pile of shit if this theocratic garbage doesn't stop.
wasting Texas tax dollars.
Elaine, a correction if I may.
"wasting Republican tax dollars"
The only folks who are entitled to government largesse specifically and the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness in general, are named Richard White.
Better they should die and decrease the surplus population. *hic* 'scuse me. ;
sally--I think the Democrats might want to treat this in a dignified, low key manner.
tinfoil hattie ...
Yeah, they could call it something different in VA. Here, you get a living will, which outlines what treatments you do -- and do not -- want and the health care proxy empowers someone to effect those wishes if you are out of it.
I've had this stuff for years, having watched both parents suffer long drawn-out painful illnesses. Everyone should have them. Everyone.
The pope said that vacinations were clearly against God's will -- if God wants a bug to kil you it is unnatural to get in His way! The pope was also opposed to street lighting (I guess if God wants it to be dark...)
Of course the pope in question was Gregory XVI back in the early 19th century when an early term abortion was not yet a mortal sin
These unchanging verities get me so confused!
For some reason, I'm reminded of one of my favorite lines from the movie "North Dallas Forty":
"When somebody as rich as your daddy dies of cancer, you know they haven't found a cure."
Sallyh -- Re: organ from a person of color --
Well, isn't that what the little people are for -- spare parts.
What's the name of that little girl that was a subject of attention on Eschaton a while back that was going to have her life support pulled? She was some black child who had every ailment in the book but her health insurance dried up, which forced a sort of internet response that ended up getting her put back on life support? I know I'm not making this up, but what's her name?
Oh, okay! I see the republican wisdom in all of this Schiavo stuff. Terri must be kept alive until all the available money is gone that is spent to care for her.
Once that's tapped out, she must die because sheis no longer profitable to anyone.
Now I get it. Huh. Sometimes I'm just too slow.
So, you think this new revelation will hit the networks and the cable news shows tomorrow.
Yeah, yeah, sure, whatever.
Now, let's talk politics. Sen. Biden, will Hillary Clinton run for president in 2008?
Do you think Illinois will go all the way this year?
So why didn't this come out before the election?
The worse the leader, the luckier they are.
I must be spending too much time here.
We pulled into a burger place today and I momentarily read their sign as Wateriger, instead of Whataburger!
I am omnipresent. Bwa-hahahahahaha!
God, yes, the "rotting to death" plan is great if you are a zombie.
Prior A--wonderful to see you this evening! I was thinking of you yesterday while eating Marie Callender's potato cheese soup.
NTodd--you eat chips Ahoy? The least you could do is go to the dairy case and grab a tube of Pillsbury Slice & Bakes.
Baking them is, of course, optional.
Re the baby, I understood that the baby had a rare condition in that the 'trunk'/chest would never grow and be able to allow the lungs to expand, thus the baby would die a rather horrible death.
This could get really dicey if someone is suffering from a terminal illness, but not yet in its later stages.
They catch a cold - whatever - physicians could decide to withhold treatment, I suppose.
( Maybe a tad far-fetched - as of today. Nothing's too far out of the question for the current libertine kooks running the country.)
Let me amend that - physicians/care facilities could decide to withhold treatment if the patient is indigent. A very slippery slope, if you ask me.
We don't want precedent-setting cases where physicians decide to terminate treatment. Such should be decided by patient advocate/guardian/attorney-in-fact in consultation w/ physicians.
Humanity means nothing to the neo-fascists among us.
Watertiger--NTodd says you're a lot more than omnipresent...he means that in a good way, of course
Sarah D.,
Bingo.
I must be spending too much time here.
We pulled into a burger place today and I momentarily read their sign as Wateriger, instead of Whataburger!
I am omnipresent. Bwa-hahahahahaha!
watertiger | Email | Homepage | 03.19.05 - 9:11 pm | #
Geeze. no one ever mistakes my name for anything, not even road kill.
From the DFW Startlegram, regarding the Wanda Hudson case:
Sun was born with thanatophoric dysplasia, a form of dwarfism characterized by short arms, short legs and tiny lungs, doctors said. Nearly all babies born with the incurable condition, often diagnosed in utero, die shortly after birth, genetic counselors say.
Sun was delivered full-term at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, but Hudson, 33, said she had no prenatal care during which his condition might have been discovered. He was put on a ventilator while doctors figured out what was wrong, and Hudson refused when doctors recommended withdrawing treatment.
And where were all those upstanding pro-life people in the state of Texas when Wanda Hudson needed prenatal care and screening?
Oh dear, if she'd known she was having a deformed child, she might have--gasp!--aborted! Oh my mercy me!
ben ... Here name is Lauren Rainey.
Cosmic Ray--really, it's all about the Benjamins.
health insurance dried up, which forced a sort of internet response that ended up getting her put back on life support? I know I'm not making this up, but what's her name?
ben
Her Medicaid was being pulled, if I remember right, not health insurance.
.
Tonight is the last night of winter. Yeah!!!!!!
About the baby: it is OK to kill them when they are born for Baby Jesus loves them. if they are fetuses they go to the devil. See? So simple if you are born again.
Re the baby, I understood that the baby had a rare condition in that the 'trunk'/chest would never grow and be able to allow the lungs to expand, thus the baby would die a rather horrible death.
Des, that may very well have been, but remember that the anti-abortionists are telling women they don't have a right to terminate a child over birth defects. How dare they interfere with God's will?!
If a woman decides to carry to term anyway, she's a heroine to these people. But when her child becomes a "drain" on resources, despite a mother who wants to keep that child alive, then you turn on the mother? That's seriously messed up.
Re the baby, I understood that the baby had a rare condition in that the 'trunk'/chest would never grow and be able to allow the lungs to expand, thus the baby would die a rather horrible death.
There's always that chance of a miracle. If your going to believe, you can't pick and choose.
I'm sure this story will be all over the Sunday news shows. And I'm sure our intrepid media won't rest 'til they get an explanation from whatever wingnut demogogues are making the rounds this week.
Another thing I'm not seeing sufficient coverage of is this story about the attempted frame-up of defense analyst Bill Arkin, which sure looks to me like it's coming out of Rumsfeld's office.
I believe in Virginia it is called an Advanced Medical Directive
You know those pics of Schiavo they play on TV ad nauseum? The ones where she's supposedly laughing, etc.? Those pics are from 2001. God only knows what condition the poor woman is in today.
i do recommend that you acquire your .50 caliber weapons as soon as you can.
as much as you might want to ignore reality, war has been declared on you by the thugs in the exec branch and the congress. and the democrat party.
and there will be no moderating their evil ways by non-violent means. i know, you think that this is an extreme pov, but in light of the demsenators who are really thugs, how willing are you to lie down and allow this new nazi party to destroy your country? will you go meekly to your demise?
the ironic thing is that the fascist bastids in this episode are jews. joe and hadassah lieberman, paul wolfowitz, eliot abrams, richard perle, douglas feith, etc, etc.
much as i hate to say it, didn't ah get it right? and wasn't his major flaw not moving fast enough?
decades after ww2, amerikans are still being sacrificed for zionist zealots.
can that reality be arrested, now?
i think not. this country is doomed. and doomed because the israeli intell services have captured the entirety of the usg.
some may think me way out of line in saying this. fine. but i know what i have been watching over the last 50 years. and it is clear to me that the state of israel is/has been the real enemy of the united states.
but israel's control over the usg will not be terminating non-violently. unless and until you can eliminate the israeli gangsters who have bought the amerikan pols, and turn-out those pols, the usa will be investing its capital and manpower into the zionist games forever.
does anyone in this peanut gallery disagree with my assessment?
Right in time for tomorrows Sunday talk shows.
Someone had better email this out to all those who will be on the air tomorrow.
MYOB'
.
Res Ipsa--and I understand that the tapes are heavily edited.
much as i hate to say it, didn't ah get it right? and wasn't his major flaw not moving fast enough?
Hmmmm. I've disagreed with albertchampion before, Lord knows. But this is a whole new ball game.
What Res Ipsa Loquitor said at 8:55 pm
"thar=that. Too much spring wine....Hecate | Email | Homepage | 03.19.05 - 8:57 pm | #"
Oxymoron
If there were a Fourth Estate (why doesn't George Soros buy out Rupert Murdoch?)
SIGH!
Des, that may very well have been, but remember that the anti-abortionists are telling women they don't have a right to terminate a child over birth defects. How dare they interfere with God's will?!
Ah, who listens to those freaks anywho?
The Incredibles is on, gotta go. Maybe catch y'all later if anyone is still around. Have a good one. Or two . . .
I am omnipresent. Bwa-hahahahahaha!
Pfft. You're taking up too much room on the couch. And I don't wanna watch your stupidy shows, you've had the TV all night.
How much money do the parents of Shiavo have?
What was their campaign contribution to the Repugnants in the last election?
Anyone know this?
There's always that chance of a miracle. If your going to believe, you can't pick and choose.
Hoyt C. | Email | Homepage | 03.19.05 - 9:17 pm | #
In a nutshell!
Ah, who listens to those freaks anywho?
Unfortunately, too many people who will use it to their own advantage against what's best for anyone else.
Thersites--Aguatigre? Taking up too much room?
One gives the queen her due, y'know
BTW, what are you and the boy watching?
Nearly all babies born with the incurable condition, often diagnosed in utero, die shortly after birth, genetic counselors say.
Nearly all isn't all. NTodd, where's the formula for that one...?
Hey, everyone, thanks for the good wishes for Mr. Hattie. He is okay one minute & freaking out the next. Anyone here ever have surgery for a ruptured disk? Nobody we know has back problems. His main worry is that he won't be able to do yoga, work out, etc. afterward. We're all in a tizzy here, and grateful that we pay $748 per month health insurance, so that our out of pocket expenses for this should "only" be a $1k or so. Plus missing 3 weeks of (self employed) work.
Still rather be us than the Schiavos. That poor man. Can you imagine what he's going through? All he wanted to do was to help his wife peacefully through her final journey. I bet in his wildest dreams he never imagined CONGRESS would be interfering. It's just so outrageous. (I'm running out of other adjectives.)
BTW, what are you and the boy watching?
The first Harry Potter movie, at his request.
Trying to talk someone into making popcorn...
the ironic thing is that the fascist bastids in this episode are jews. joe and hadassah lieberman, paul wolfowitz, eliot abrams, richard perle, douglas feith, etc, etc.
much as i hate to say it, didn't ah get it right? and wasn't his major flaw not moving fast enough?
Shut the fuck you putrid Nazi piece of shit
bet in his wildest dreams he never imagined CONGRESS would be interfering.
I bet he didn't imagine FReepers and their ilk would be fantasizing about gunning him down, either.
Ban that motherfucker Albert Champion immediately. Fuck you, asshole.
the ironic thing is that the fascist bastids in this episode are jews. joe and hadassah lieberman...
Hey, I may be an irrational Bush-lover, but that anti-semetic bullshit is uncalled for.
Nazis are NOT cool.
Ban that motherfucker Albert Champion immediately. Fuck you, asshole.
Old Hat
I think Old Hat may be onto something here.
Anyone here ever have surgery for a ruptured disk?
My sister did. She was pretty OK in a couple of months, and she was in lousy shape to start with.
Positive energy beaming your way!
So who in tomorrow's talking heads will discuss this fact first?
I jsut visited Kos cause they usually have the layout of the Sunday morning atrocity lineup but it wasn't up because they were covering more of the Schiavo story.
But we all know this story is going to be what they all talk about tomorrow?
What better way to really toss a bomb at this pathetic excuse of president by talking about the hypocrisy of the administration in that they are more than willing to pull the plug on someone if it helps their insurance buddies. That the current fight over Terri Schiavo is about politics and getting to score some PR points by appearing more pro-life in front of the idiot christian masses?
MYOB'
.
does anyone in this peanut gallery disagree with my assessment?
Rhetorical, correct?
BTW, what are you and the boy watching?
The first Harry Potter movie, at his request.
I've never read the books (I know, I know...), so I'm not sure which book title that one belonged to.
My son calls one of the books Harry's a Pothead and the Sorcerer's Stoned.
Adult Video MegaPlexxx called it Harry Pottymouth and the Sorcerer's Bone.
Email Atrios and ask him to boot that motherfucker.
Old hat, people name steal.....
Albert Champion you are the biggest scumbag to grace these comments in the 1-1/2 years I've been reading them, bar none. That includes all the worst trolls we love to hate, even Karen Schnell.
TOODLES, Albert. you piece of shit
Why doesn't George Soros buy out Rupert Murdoch?
Prior A ...
According to a DKos post of a few weeks back "big money" is working on a liberal/progressive alternative to the Faux News Network. Not sure who the players are, but it's in the works.
...anti-semetic bullshit...
...anti-semitic bullshit is not cool either.
I bet he didn't imagine FReepers and their ilk would be fantasizing about gunning him down, either.
So letting the brain dead wife die is bad but shooting the healthy husband id good? I'm confused.
they are more than willing to pull the plug on someone if it helps their insurance buddies.
My mother was on life support for five days. After the first 24 hours, I had people from the hospital calling me a couple times a day, urging me to unhook her. I couldn't do it until I'd cleared up some legal stuff, and I had to fight them tooth and nail over it.
I guess this constitutes the "cracking the knuckles" portion of the lead-up to Iran, Syria, wherever:
Policy OKs First Strike to Protect U.S.
By John Hendren Times Staff Writer
WASHINGTON — Two years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the Pentagon has formally included in key strategic plans provisions for launching preemptive strikes against nations thought to pose a threat to the United States.
The doctrine also now stipulates that the U.S. will use "active deterrence" in concert with its allies "if we can" but could act unilaterally otherwise, Defense officials said.
The changes codify the more assertive defense policy adopted by the Bush administration since the Sept. 11 attacks and are included in a "National Military Strategy" and "National Defense Strategy," reports that are part of a comprehensive review of military strategy conducted every four years.
"The president has the obligation to protect the country," said Douglas J. Feith, the Defense Department's undersecretary for policy. "And I don't think that there's anything in our Constitution that says that the president should not protect the country unless he gets some non-American's participation or approval of that."
(snip)
does anyone in this peanut gallery disagree with my assessment?
albertchampion
I can not publicly agree with you advocating violence.
.
And of course all this talk about reverence for "life" is undercut by his record as governor and by the relish with which he sacrificed life in Iraq when a peaceful solution was available.
Old hat, people name steal.....
No, that's him.
A couple of months ago he said he watches "Triumph of the Will" every now and then. He's some LaRouche nutjob.
If you don't think he's a Nazi fascist fuck by now, you're either stupid or naive or both.
So letting the brain dead wife die is bad but shooting the healthy husband id good? I'm confused.
Hecate
Compassion without bloodshed is gay, apparently.
Rosie --
Go fix Daddy some popcorn
So letting the brain dead wife die is bad but shooting the healthy husband id good? I'm confused.
9/11 Changed Everything©
I believe it is a troll. Please understand, on other threads=trolls.
Here, none until someone took Albert's name (it seems so out of character).
Dang, now I really AM confused. I thought the family got to decide when to stop the treatment for an obviously terminally ill person who will never recover.
Then I see Congress step in and say, "Nope, we get to intervene."
Then I read that hospitals and doctors get to decide because they can refuse treatment if there's no money to pay for it.
Here we have the most heartbreaking decision human beings have to face and there doesn't seem to be any kind of consistent guidelines to help them.
I'm shaking my head, but I have a hunch I won't be any clearer on this awful ethical dilemma any time soon.
id=is. Or maybe that was a freudian slip...
One gives the queen her due, y'know
Well, if someone wasn't hoggin' the frigging remote, maybe I'd make room.
(dentalizing the "d"s) And I don't do popcorn.
I've always hated Albert Champion and his horseshit LaRouchite Nazi ravings but he crossed a line this time. You can shove your .50 caliber Jew killing guns up your ass, you Nazi shithead.
Boot him, folks:
atrios@comcast.net
Check out dailykos.com.
Senator Reid got snookered by the GOP. Now this ghoulish bill to keep Schiavo alive no matter what, opposed by a clear majority of the public, is not a GOP creation. It's "bipartisan" now and we will have to share and shoulder the blame for it.
Kos is right when he says that Democrats snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They simply have no political sense.
Why do so many Democrats have a tin ear for politics?
A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined ...
Stone Age barbarism. And they wonder why so much of the rest of the world looks at us with contempt?
If Albert is a "Nazi" type, then his own word do him in.
Anyway, MY name is abused by trolls about once a day if not more often. Other posters here have this happen, too. Almost like clockwork.
So I tend to ignore flame out stuff figuring it is trolls at work.
Adult Video MegaPlexxx called it Harry Pottymouth and the Sorcerer's Bone.
Do you think the kids will like that one?
My son's joke is "Hairy Pooper." This is 5-Year-Old humor at its most refined.
Douglas J. Feith
SPIT!
.
Kos is dead wrong about this.
Taking a stand to keep people alive means the GOP is nasty for letting OTHER people die.
Geeze, do I have to keep spelling this out?
Email Atrios and ask him to boot that motherfucker.
Old Hat,
you may strenuously dissagree with AC's positions, but I think censorship might be a bit much. You don't have to read what he posts, if in fact that was him.
Otherwise where does it end. One might argue for the banning of folks that use profanity
Tonight is the last night of winter. Yeah!!!!!!
Thank God. Winter in all its forms is awful.
Soon, or soonish, after Passover anyway, my grocery store will put all the really kuhl stuff on sale, at like half price and -even a quarter off-. Manischevitz chocolate meringues! Chopped liver! Mazto balls in broth! Thank the Good Lord, my pantry's getting skimpy. (Cherry preserves!)
I don't think that there's anything in our Constitution that says that the president should not protect the country unless he gets some non-American's participation or approval of that.
Arguing with chimera again, Mister Feith.
Well, if someone wasn't hoggin' the frigging remote, maybe I'd make room.
(dentalizing the "d"s) And I don't do popcorn.
MOM!
If Kos and others want us to be the Death Party of Abortionists, we can but that would be brain dead.
I say again: there is NO HARM in keeping this woman alive IF the GOP wants to keep ALL such people alive if their families want this.
This means extending MEDICAID much more. The GOP hates this idea. We will hammer them on this.
I dunno, Theri. haven't seen it. Stuff like that bores me. But the title was as least amusing.
My son's joke is "Hairy Pooper." This is 5-Year-Old humor at its most refined.
I was about to ask if that were the inspiration for Wingnut Theri's comedic skill, until I realized that 5 was a bit long in the tooth for it...
GWPDA,
Oh, I would kill for good chopped liver on rye bread with onions.
My coven celebrated Ostara today. There are cherry blossoms in bloom at the Congressional Cemetary! I'm glad to say goodbye to winter!
I believe I have seen medical cases in which ongoing life isn't really a function of "life," but rather a function of electricity.
And it does seem like the lawyer for the family understands this, as he's said that if the situation is truly terminal they don't want it to "drag on forever."
There are families that say they want everything done for their terminal loved ones, but if they are unable to pay for it, then would you?
I have seen families very much in denial about their loved one's condition, unable to grieve or even see the situation realistically, as might experienced medical professionals.
A hospital I worked at in New York, years ago, spent hundreds of thousands of gratis dollars caring for a woman in an irreversible persistant vegetative state. I cared for the woman many weeks myself. I never saw her make any voluntary movements, nor respond in any way to her enviroment, and this was demonstrated to the family numerous times, but to them she was "alive." Neurologists be damned, I guess.
All the medical staff wanted to let the woman go. Eventually she was transferred to a long-term facility that took ventilated patients. The family fought that, too, because it required that they travel to see her.
For me, the creepiest part would be when they brought their young children in to "talk to grandma." Convinced (like a famous set of parents in the news,) that the involuntary twitches and scrambled random eye movements were "recognition," the adults would coo and chatter while the children would look at each other and me with baffled expressions, horrified by the family's denial and the electric wheezing of the ventilator.
I'd hustle them all out of the room sometimes because though she was brain-dead, of course her bowels worked just fine. Tube feedings tend to make a patient have loose stools. And she weighed almost 300 lbs. so cleaning her was a real chore that sometimes took three nurses and aides. I do not think I will describe those situations any further.
To the adult family members that was a sign of "life" and they would openly joke and congratulate the patient for "making a good one" as they left me to that dismal task.
When maybe I could've been caring for some sick kid instead...
you may strenuously dissagree with AC's positions, but I think censorship might be a bit much. You don't have to read what he posts, if in fact that was him.
Oh, so arguing that people should stock up on .50 caliber guns and get ready for the race war against the Jews is totally cool? And Adolph Hitler was right?
Spare me your kumbayah bullshit.
you may strenuously dissagree with AC's positions, but I think censorship might be a bit much.
When you're saying that Hitler's biggest problem was dragging his feet vis a vis the Holocaust, I don't think censorship is "a bit much."
I will say that I've seen AC rave about Nazis in the South America often enough that I find this outright Jew-hating somewhat out of character. But who knows.
I bet if some woman stepped forward and said she was Schiavo's lover before and during her marriage that feeding tube would be ripped out of her quicker than you could say "Gavin Newsome."
Compassion without bloodshed
The whole Schiavo feeding frenzy reaks of rightwing bloodlust.
I say again: there is NO HARM in keeping this woman alive IF the GOP wants to keep ALL such people alive if their families want this.
The harm is that it's her body and she didn't want this done to her body. And everyone who isn't a slave gets to control what other people can and can't do to thier bodies.
I will say that I've seen AC rave about Nazis in the South America often enough that I find this outright Jew-hating somewhat out of character.
It's not out of character if you're a LaRouchite, which he is.
I say again: there is NO HARM in keeping this woman alive IF the GOP wants to keep ALL such people alive if their families want this.
This means extending MEDICAID much more. The GOP hates this idea. We will hammer them on this.
Yeah, right. Just as soon as the regime has finished taking out all "dictators who kill their own people". Cuz that was the deal after the invasion and occupation of Iraq, right? No special cases?
Taking a stand to keep people alive means the GOP is nasty for letting OTHER people die. Geeze, do I have to keep spelling this out?
Geez, you have a tin ear for politics too!
You should stop wasting your time with this argument. It may be true but it's a heavily nuanced position that nobody with an IQ below 100 will understand. So you'd better get used to spelling it out!
Most people don't understand that the GOP lets other people die, it's something they aren't going to learn or accept anytime soon, and even if they do learn it they would have to overcome their own cognitive dissonance and make the connection.
But even stupid people can see what's wrong with ghoulishly keeping someone alive like this. No cognitive dissonance to overcome. The GOP wants to take over your medical decisions. Oops, now it's "both sides do it".
Your argument will not translate into any sort of political advantage. You should stop wasting your breath explaining it.
Well, I must be about the 23rd person here to note the hypocrisy exuded next to their spinning of Terri Schiavo: these absolute freaking scum are fighting to keep TS alive even though she is barely aware and probably wouldn't want to have been kept like that, but to save hospitals money, they'd let perfectly awake people who wanted a bit more time to slide down the abyss, *even if their families wanted to keep them alive.*
So the point is, none of their clients are losing money keeping Terri Schiavo alive, so she can be used as an agitprop scheme in complete contradiction to their real concerns.
NTodd--you eat chips Ahoy? The least you could do is go to the dairy case and grab a tube of Pillsbury Slice & Bakes.
Well, to be fair, I do eat Ben and Jerry's cookie dough ice-cream.
I say again: there is NO HARM in keeping this woman alive IF the GOP wants to keep ALL such people alive if their families want this.
There's harm in using a human being - even a brain-dead one - as a political football. I don't like your plan to score points off the situation any better than I like the Right's.
I also happen to think that her husband has - just maybe - suffered enough at this point.
you may strenuously dissagree with AC's positions, but I think censorship might be a bit much.
It's not "censorship," either. Read a dictionary.
It's not out of character if you're a LaRouchite, which he is.
Old Hat
Is he? I didn't know that! I'll take your word for it. And yes, that would explain a hell of a lot.
Oh, I would kill for good chopped liver on rye bread with onions.
My coven celebrated Ostara today. There are cherry blossoms in bloom at the Congressional Cemetary! I'm glad to say goodbye to winter!
Hecate
Oooh, Hecate, I wanted to tell you, if you ever get a chance, did you know that Dashiell Hammett is buried in Arlington? A good visit, with a small nip of whiskey.... But, funny you should think of chopped liver - On my Saturday errands I did stop at my deli to see if their chopped liver had improved. I'm happy to say that it had. Arthur and I are sitting here tucking into a nice bit of it, thiiiiiin sliced Maui onions and a dark, sweet rye. (Arthur doesn't get the onions.) And I've got herring in wine sauce in the ice box! And I'm telling you, the almond tree is loaded with almonds, the Desert Gold peach tree is loaded with peaches and finally, thank the Good Lord, the pink lemon is coming back to life with leaves and blossoms and a general air of joy. Even the green beans are green beaning. Winter stinks! Spring is good!
Albert, here's the horrible core of this apple:
"much as i hate to say it, didn't ah get it right? and wasn't his major flaw not moving fast enough?"
My response would be a huge negative.
Genocide as an answer? Come on.....
Which is not to say that I don't have my concerns about Israel. I get irritated that being critical of Israel's politics somehow constitutes anti-semitism. It's lie what Bush et al are trying for here: criticize the Prez and oyu criticize Merricuh, our Troops, Jesus Christ yadda yadda yadda.
That's patent bullshit.
Advocating the slaughter of all people of a certain race or a certain religion is morally bereft and, frankly, nuts.
I bet if some woman stepped forward and said she was Schiavo's lover before and during her marriage that feeding tube would be ripped out of her quicker than you could say "Gavin Newsome."
Fuck, that's funny. Give that gent a mint!
I like winter in the wintertime and spring in the spring time. Summer when it's not too hot or humid but fall is best of all.
As I type this my old mother is watching The Ten Commandments. At the most absurd moments she keeps saying, "Oh, brother,". Isn't it just like Hollywood to discover the real reason for the whole thing was sexual jealousy? I've got to believe that Yule Brenner, at least, must have known what a silly piece of overblown kitsch they were producing. Charlton Heston, though, seemed to think it was the story of his life.
"Oh, Moses.... He, he, he,"
Having a shrunken cerebral cortex and a head full of spinal fluid does not automatically make one a vegetable. Terri may very well be gone, I'm not arguing otherwise, but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that someone in her condition could be aware of their surroundings and respond to stimuli. The brain can do some pretty freaky things. For example here are a few cases of several apparently normal
people with almost no brain.
Advocating the slaughter of all people of a certain race or a certain religion is morally bereft and, frankly, nuts.
Wow, it really took courage for you to say that.
There's harm in using a human being - even a brain-dead one - as a political football.
Phila,
Great wisdom.
Otherwise where does it end. One might argue for the banning of folks that use profanity
kent_....
And that would fucking suck.
But I think the guy is interesting to read.
He always makes me go; does that make sense, what is this strange writing style, is he insane?
But, yeah, I agree, Israel, not Jewish people, have way too much influence in our government.
.
As I type this my old mother is watching The Ten Commandments. At the most absurd moments she keeps saying, "Oh, brother,"
Anne Baxter as Nefertiri!!!
"Moses, Moses, Moses! Are her lips red like pomegranates?"
Say, about 'Albert Champion'? Here I am, the greatest Margery Allingham fan in the world, wondering why he'd take, sort of, the name of the great Albert Campion and make it not very nice, at all.
Wow, it really took courage for you to say that.
Old Hat
Sarah's a good person, Old Hat, and relatively new here. I'd save your anger for AC.
Charlton Heston, though, seemed to think it was the story of his life.
You'll have to pry my people from my cold, dead hands!
There's harm in using a human being - even a brain-dead one - as a political football.
Indeed.
This immense media and political intrusion upon private grief is profoundly vulgar and grotesque.
But I think the guy is interesting to read.
You're gullible.
EPT - go make your mummy some popcorn and then cuddle. I'm telling you. Do this.
The question was asked "So why aren’t Dems running to all the media outlets in the country, and shouting this from the hilltops?"
Because they're scared shitless to stand up to the Rethugs. Harry Reid et al. cut a deal last night to let "Delay of Death" have his way w/ us, and the Sugarland Satan will be strutting around again tomorrow, on Palm Sunday of all days, while the Senate, w/ sick-making Dem complicity, votes to allow this travesty to go forward. And "Resurrection Day" (= Easter) is only a week away...the symbolism is just TOO-TOO rich!
But here's the kicker, folks: Rove now has the Dems right where he wants them--compromised and complicit. The courts will inevitably throw out this monstrous overreaching by the federal legislative branch into a state judiciary...and then the right wing will be in full hue and cry against those EEEEVilLLL librul judges (never mind that the Supremes will eventually throw out the case or refuse to intervene, as they already have done by refusing to accept an earlier Schiavo-related case). The Dems will, as usual, be cowering in the corner and chugging Bush Lite, wondering what hit them. Anyone who even thinks about voting against a "loving Christian" Bush judicial nominee will be crucified...just you wait and see.
It's surprising that no one has ever Rocky Horrored The Ten Commandments. So many opportunities to say the silly lines and throw stuff around. Edward G. Robinson's lines alone would provide enough material.
And those burning bush jokes. Yeah, a burning bush like the flaming one we've got today.
The whole Schiavo feeding frenzy reaks of rightwing bloodlust.
They do have a bizarre, psychotic bloodlust.
But, to be technical, the Schiavo hoopla is more a demonstration of their necrophilia.
Just like The Passion of the Christ, this is a symptom of their elevation of the corpse to a pornographic symbol.
EPT - go make your mummy some popcorn and then cuddle. I'm telling you. Do this.
GWPDA
I think she's fallen asleep because she's not groaning anymore. Either that or she's gone to take a shower.
But I think the guy is interesting to read.
William Turner is "interesting" to read too. But one usually prefers to read despicable racist madmen at a time and place of one's own choosing. Also, apart from being loathsome in and of themselves, comments like AC's can cause political headaches if left unchallenged.
GWPDA --
You'll have to wait a while -- Passover is not until 24 April this year -- Easter (1st Sunday after the 1st full moon after the equinox) is VERY early this year (27 March)
Completely OT (maybe a good thing)
Montana Bill Would Use Tax on Big-Box Stores to Offset Welfare Expenses Paid to Low-Wage, Part-Time Employees
Montana taxpayers are tired of subsidies for big-box stores, whose low prices and big profits depend on their low wages and public assistance for their workers, says state Democratic Senator Ken Toole, sponsor of a bill that would offset these welfare costs by charging Wal-Mart, Target, Costco and similar stores a 1 percent tax on more than $20 million in sales, 1.5 percent on more than $30 million and 2 percent on more than $40 million.
The tax, reports Reuters from Montana, would apply to stores more than 25 percent of whose employees work part time and whose full-time employees make less than $22,000 a year. Citing research that found state taxpayers spend about $421,000 a year for every Wal-Mart store with 200 employees, Senator Toole estimates that the tax would affect 160 stores -- about half of Montana retail -- and raise some $20 million annually.
monabelle - thank you, well put
I hope pie & elaine read your comment.
My dad was diagnosed with stomach cancer a few weeks ago and this shit is freaking me out.
Not William Turner, William Pierce.
There's harm in using a human being - even a brain-dead one - as a political football.
It is especially shameful that the person who is the object of the media's and the politicians' fetish is a woman who is unable to speak for and defend herself.
We have no business knowing about Schiavo's private live and the lives of those around her.
Republican hypocrisy knows no bounds!
Why doesn't Schiavo's husband divorce her and just let her parents take care of her if they want? That would seem to be the obvious choice. Is he morally against divorce or something?
Is there a big insurance check waiting for him at her death?
By the way, I am against all this legislative bullshit but these I think are valid questions.
Hot damn, monabelle.
You nailed it!
You're gullible.
Old Hat
In no way is that true in this instance.
He's just always made me go Hmmmmm, what is up with this guy.
Never swayed me one way or the other.
I take it you have no problem with us arming and sending 1,000,000s of dollars a day to Israel while they perpetuate the travesty they have rained down on the Palestian people.
.
You'll have to wait a while -- Passover is not until 24 April this year -- Easter (1st Sunday after the 1st full moon after the equinox) is VERY early this year (27 March)
Yes, Prior, I know. I've got my eye on things - mercifully in my part of Phoenix, we have a sufficiently large Orthodox population so that the local merchants notice and prepare. As for Easter being early, it's this early every eleven years thereabouts. I know. I remember calculating this back about 1966....
Night all - Arthur needs to go to bed.
I say again: there is NO HARM in keeping this woman alive IF the GOP wants to keep ALL such people alive if their families want this.
I disagree- this woman wouldn't have wanted this. It's obscene to do this to her to score political points.
It's also obscene to keep torturing the husband this way.
The GOP should keep their fucking paws off of peoples private griefs and decisions.
Bush is returning to Washington "to be in place" for signing the legislation on the Schivao compromise. Scott McClellan said, "This is about defending life." So what about repealing the legislation that give hospitals the right to unplug life support when the family is against it?
We are ALL political footballs. And some are more brain dead than others.
But the gnashing of teeth over this matter puzzles me. We have no "policies" concerning near death conditions. Why worry about the brain dead? They don't feel anything.
The soul: it fled long ago. If people want to keep a body around, let them. Some people keep corpses of family members around for years and years, even.
What bothers me is all the dying people who have no one paying attention. Not even to bury them.
Like in IRAQ.
Old Hat is right, Albert has got to go. There's no room to tolerate this shit.
much as i hate to say it, didn't ah get it right? and wasn't his major flaw not moving fast enough?
You didn't hate to say it enough you nazi fuck.
If this really isn't AC then Atrios should at least ban the IP address of whoever is spewing this vomit.
For example here are a few cases of several apparently normal
people with almost no brain.
A few examples? We've been given to understand that 51% of voters fall into this category...
Oh, so arguing that people should stock up on .50 caliber guns and get ready for the race war against the Jews is totally cool? And Adolph Hitler was right?
I did not read his rant as starting a race war or starting up a pogram, but rather as a government fearing survivalist who is gonna go down fighting if he percieves the shit hitting the fan, and has issues with the US/Isreali relationship.
It is possible though, that I have severe issues with reading comprehension.
When you're saying that Hitler's biggest problem was dragging his feet vis a vis the Holocaust, I don't think censorship is "a bit much."
Phil,
I have to admit that I usually scroll on past alberts screeds so I have not noticed his position vis a vis Hitler not moving fast enough, unless you are referring to this:
much as i hate to say it, didn't ah get it right? and wasn't his major flaw not moving fast enough?
Considering I may lack the proper context to decifer the identity of the person "his major flaw" refers to I can't assume he is talking about hitler.
In any event the ultimate decision rests with our host.
anyhoo, nice to see you around Mandibranchsquito.
Great post monabelle.
Republican hypocrisy knows no bounds!
Monica A
The key to it is that everything and everyone is an object for their use. That is the bedrock of conservatism and the primary difference between it and liberalism. Conservatism is a degree of sociopathy, or several. DeLay definitly has no capacity for empathy but a small ability to mimic something like it. For Frist it's a business opportunity. He's trying to figure out an angle to make money out of it. George Bush thinks he's the Burning Bush. We will know it's gotten out of hand when he demands people take off their shoes in his presence. The media whores will do it without question.
I just can't post this enough:
“I am pleased Senator Frist and I were able to pass the bill that protects the life of Terri Schiavo by allowing her parents to go to federal court.
If the House Republicans refuse to pass our bipartisan bill, they bear responsibility for the consequences.”
Harry Reid.
Thanks Harry! I'm sure Bush, Rove, Frist and Delay are all glad you're on-board!!
By the way, I am against all this legislative bullshit but these I think are valid questions.
No. We have no business asking about any of individuals' motives in this case -- except the motives of people in government who insist on intervening and contravening the judiciary.
A few examples? We've been given to understand that 51% of voters fall into this category...
C'mon, folks: a beverage warning is only polite. I'm running out of paper towels and my monitor is beginning to blink back at me.
Is there a big insurance check waiting for him at her death?
According to a friend that's been following this, yes.
I'd be happy to see him give that money to charity.
Bush is showboating.
Next: the budget. Once again, we have to cut it. We won't cut military. We won't cut medicine. where do we cut? Amtrak is only 1.5 billion.
We are running $500 billion in the red. What do we cut?
This battle is about to explode in everyone's faces. And Bush is preparing us for WWIII. The "Unilateral right to attack POTENTIAL enemies" is an open declaration of war against the world.
Hahaha. Reid is FORCING THE REPUBLICANS to stop bloviating and save Terry. And by extention, save ALL the people losing medical care.
See?
Geeze.
Why doesn't Schiavo's husband divorce her and just let her parents take care of her if they want? That would seem to be the obvious choice. Is he morally against divorce or something?
Is there a big insurance check waiting for him at her death?
Why can't he just be protecting his wife's wishes?
Considering I may lack the proper context to decifer the identity of the person "his major flaw" refers to I can't assume he is talking about hitler.
Your caution does you credit, Kent! But I think it's pretty plain, myself. Still, you're right...it's Atrios's call, of course.
I was under the impression AC had been banned at least once before, actually...
Is there a big insurance check waiting for him at her death?
According to a friend that's been following this, yes.
That's fucking bullshit and you know it, troll.
Considering I may lack the proper context to decifer the identity of the person "his major flaw" refers to I can't assume he is talking about hitler.
This is a serious question: How stupid are you?
You're gullible.
I'm not.
Look, just ignore him if you disagree.
For the record, the fact that Wolfowitz and crew are jewish just proves that assholes and war criminals are common to every single ethnicity, not any single one in particular. That's my opinion.
The Democrats need to back away from this shit so they won't seem to be as big oppurtunists and hypocrites. Leave this to DeLay and his ghouls.
Next: the budget.Elaine Supkis
James Wolcott is excellent reading today. He goes into the economy quite a bit.
I'm going to bed. Good night. I hope the morning brings an end to the circus in Florida.
Just to be clear--I have been a lifelong loyal Democrat "no matter what"...but I think my party is dead to me now, after the Terrible Trifecta of the past few days--18 Dems rolling over on the bankruptcy bill**, 3 Dems selling out on ANWR, and now this Schiavo debacle. (**Keep in mind: If Terri's hubby or parents can't afford to keep the gelatinous goo gushing through that tube, it will be nigh impossible for them to get out from under that mountain o' lovin' debt, thanks to the new bankruptcy law.) ANYway, I'm in mourning and near tears as I type this. I couldn't grasp what a friend was going through when she experienced what she described as "loss of faith" in her church, but now I know how it feels.
HoneyBearKelly - dearie, you need to concentrate on your Pop. All I can tell you is that this comes to us all - ignore the foolishness you're reading, and pay attention to what you have to deal with. Honest. You'll help your Pop much more holding his hand than worrying about anything else.
It's not "censorship," either. Read a dictionary.
You sir are correct, and I am an idiot.
But I believe that you caught my drift, generally speaking.
Is there a big insurance check waiting for him at her death?
According to a friend that's been following this, yes.
Oh for crying out loud.
If this was about the money he'd have taken one of those mega-dollar offers.
Maybe he just wants to do what his wife would have wanted.
But, to be technical, the Schiavo hoopla is more a demonstration of their necrophilia.
Just like The Passion of the Christ, this is a symptom of their elevation of the corpse to a pornographic symbol.
Point taken, but don't let's forget the elevation of the corpse as a symbol of total control.
Ok, ok, ok…. I have NEVER posted here… In fact, I pretty much stay quiet on almost everything. The only one that get to hear my rants are my family and friend.
But all this is just tooooooo much.
Why will congress work on the weekend to keep ONE person alive… but will not to anything for our troops?
Why have they not worked day and night to get the body armor our troops needed?
When did they work weekends to make sure the Humvies meet the requirements needed to protect our troops?
Why have they not spent this time…and all the weekends in the past 2 years working on plans to save the lives of our now 1,520 dead or the over 100,000 Iraqis?
I think these should be our “talking points” Why is Terri Schiavo’s life more important that the lives of our troops and the people in Afghanistan and Iraq?
It woud be FATAL if the Democrats were silent. TRUST ME ON THIS.
If people object to the GOP grandstanding on this, they will punish the GOP. But we can't pretend to have no opinion.
In this case, the woman had NO WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS so it is anyone's guess what she wanted and frankly, bodies, once they are not occupied by the forebrain's ability to be an entity, it doesn't matter much what happens. Like my body, I don't care if my carcass is left to the flies and the dogs. I really don't care. I won't be here to be bothered.
My kids can do what they want. Fertilize the garden! Hey, I don't care.
Graves are just so grave robbers and archeologists can dig you up and use you like the Yalie Skull and Bones people.
Question ... Could some sort of cure for Schiavo have be developed had stem cell research been allowed to go forward by this backwards-fuck-of-a-president?
HoneyBearKelly, sorry to hear about your father.
We are ALL political footballs. And some are more brain dead than others.
Forgive me, but I'm really not in the mood for this kind of glib bullshit.
I think your idea is useless and venal. And if the Democrats choose this "clever strategy," I don't believe it'll deliver any of the benefits you're daydreaming about.
And you know what? I manage to be bothered by cynical hijinks with a braindead woman, and by the people dying in Iraq.
If you're absolutely in love with your little scheme, that's fine. But stop pretending that anyone who's not on board with it is clueless or naive, OK? I find it obnoxious.
Madmad, you are 100% right.
It is worse than that.
Congress won't spend five minutes debating the "unilateral preemptive strike" bill! This is life and death of MILLIONS if not billions.
WWIII is very serious.
Res Ipsa--I'm glad you asked that question!!!
Chances are, one would not have been developed in time to help Ms. Schiavo, but to disallow research into cures that could help those in her situation is criminal.
It woud be FATAL if the Democrats were silent. TRUST ME ON THIS.
Nah. You present the choices as silence or complicity. There was another option.
Christ, Santorum spewing on CNN...
Phila, I am glad you want to be the "Death" party but this is America and we have elections and believe me, we will be slaughtered in one with that label.
We cannot afford this.
You don't care because you are not a politician. I dare you to organize on this basis. Try it.
I'd be happy to see him give that money to charity.
Why? why should he have to? just because a bunch of fucking right wing wankers got into his family's business?
That's bullshit.
MadMadJE, write to your local paper and say that!
Or you can write here:
letters@nytimes.com
Meanwhile, here's another link mentioning Bush's role in passing that 1999 law.
Elaine Supkis, the broken record...
America confirms the right to live.
Well, logically, this means the GOP can't cut Medicare and medicaid. My husband is disabled. If they cut all the disability stuff HE DIES.
So I have a vested interest in keeping the GOP on the "let them live" side of the ledger. I track this. I will hammer them on this.
NOW DO YOU ALL UNDERSTAND?
Hecate - to-morrow, will you go look at the cherry blossoms again? Maybe reach up and flick at them, so they'll set? I went around and did that to all my fruit trees, feeling like a little nerd, but doing it anyway.... Will you go look at them again?
I am glad you want to be the "Death" party but this is America and we have elections and believe me, we will be slaughtered in one with that label.
You're claiming the rightwing's argument for your own here.
Old Hat,
Just to set the record straight...
In a way, yes, it did take courage for me to say what I said because of the very strong emotions about Israel. I deplore the Holocaust and every vile and insane thing Hitler did to people (and not all of them were Jews, were they?).
But...I also deplore what Irael has done to the Palestinians.
And, I can't deny that so many neocons are, in fact, of Jewish origin. It's a damn fact.
I resent the hell out of it that I can't be critical of Israeli politics without being accused of being anti-semitic or somehow a lover of Hitler.
That's utter bullshit and the same sort of tactic the right wingers take.
One's religion does not make one's actions above reproof or examination.
You know what I'm saying here???
Elaine
The CNN poll was 80/20, not even close!
That's fucking bullshit and you know it, troll.
Hoyt C.,
I'm not a troll, this is what my good friend told me.
She's an R.N., and attended a conference last weekend where this very issue was addressed.
Makes me happy to be living in Canada.
If this really isn't AC then Atrios should at least ban the IP address of whoever is spewing this vomit.
Another Bruce
They call to violence was out of bounds, as was the antisemetic tone.
But pointing out the undo influence of Israel on our country was not.
the ironic thing is that the fascist bastids in this episode are jews. joe and hadassah lieberman, paul wolfowitz, eliot abrams, richard perle, douglas feith, etc, etc
Do you really think any of these guys are doing good for this country?
What do you think the Neocons are all about?
.
For those going on about Michael Schiavo's insurance benefits, it's none of your business. I doubt he'll see any money anyway.
NOW DO YOU ALL UNDERSTAND?
Stop fucking shouting. I understand perfectly well. I disagree with you, and I think you are wrong.
Can't make room for that in your thinking?
I resent the hell out of it that I can't be critical of Israeli politics without being accused of being anti-semitic or somehow a lover of Hitler.
Bravo.
Phila, I am glad you want to be the "Death" party but this is America and we have elections and believe me, we will be slaughtered in one with that label.
No. I think he wants to be the "privacy" party and the "government should keep the fuck out of my family's medical decisions" party.
It's not that hard to understand.
As for what Terry would have wanted, the courts have determined that Terry WOULDn't have wanted to be kept alive this way.
Phila, I am glad you want to be the "Death" party but this is America and we have elections and believe me, we will be slaughtered in one with that label.
Give me open-source voting machines with a paper trail, and I'll take my chances.
It's useless to debate what will get us or cost us votes until that little inconvenience is straightened out.
HBK, sorry about your dad, my sister recently was diagnosed also.
Mrs. Schindler has truly gone mad.
No. I think he wants to be the "privacy" party and the "government should keep the fuck out of my family's medical decisions" party.
That's about the size of it, 4LG. Thanks.
Sallyh, I think everybody here needs one of your cookies and some milk, STAT!
Thanks GWPDA and fourlegs.
The first thing my sister called me up crying about was that he didn't have a living will. My mom is in pretty frail health as well and what if his treatment eats up all their savings and they lose the house and on and on. You all know the story. And now with all these horror stories coming up I can't help but be freaked out.
She's an R.N., and attended a conference last weekend where this very issue was addressed.
A nursing conference was discussing those patients' private lives? That's disgusting.
I'm not a troll, this is what my good friend told me.
Well then your good friend is full of shit. Why don't you look stuff up before you jump in and start spouting RNC talking points.
While I might find the comments of certain individuals odious (and there are only a few of them), I'm not about to advocate banning them. It is, after all, an open bar.
That isn't Albert Champion. It's not quite his pace and tone and more importantly, he would have responded. Champion doesn't drop a bomb and then leave. It is not him.
She's an R.N., and attended a conference last weekend where this very issue was addressed.
It's none of their FUCKING business whether he has a life insurance policy or not.
"A nursing conference was discussing those patients' private lives? That's disgusting."
Also a violation of professional ethics and possibly a legal problem as well.
HoneyBear ... If he is still of sound mind he can make a living will now.
Hey, Old Hat, I am older than you.
Want to see broken records?
WWIII is going to break all records. Do you worry about this? Do you have a bomb shelter? No?
BUSH SPENT TONS OF MONEY ON HIS.
This dust up is sheer silliness but no point in the Dems losing political capital fighting the madness.
the oil vote: GEEZE. Of course we will pump the damn oil. The Dems won't vote to raise CAFE standards, either. They are as short sighted as the Repubs.
BUT WHO WANTED THIS????
Me! Did you? Who pressured congress about that? The unions! They wanted no standards. Gas guzzlers galore. Yup.
WWIII will be about oil.
Old Hat makes an ass out of himself from time to time. Remember when he tried to shout EVERYBODY down when it was suggested that Bushco might have stole the election.
GWPDA,
Tomorrow, I've got to go to work. I didn't know about flicking the blossoms. We're still about two weeks away from the cherry blossoms at the tidal basin blooming, but it was wonderful to see these ones in bloom today.
Ok, ok, ok…. I have NEVER posted here… In fact, I pretty much stay quiet on almost everything. The only one that get to hear my rants are my family and friend.
But all this is just tooooooo much.
Why will congress work on the weekend to keep ONE person alive… but will not to anything for our troops?
Why have they not worked day and night to get the body armor our troops needed?
When did they work weekends to make sure the Humvies meet the requirements needed to protect our troops?
Why have they not spent this time…and all the weekends in the past 2 years working on plans to save the lives of our now 1,520 dead or the over 100,000 Iraqis?
I think these should be our “talking points” Why is Terri Schiavo’s life more important that the lives of our troops and the people in Afghanistan and Iraq?
You're boring, Elaine.
HoneyBearKelly - well, this is where you get to have the chance to make things be okay. You get to hold your Pop's hand and figure out what he wants and what the story is. You get to talk to lawyers and mortgage brokers and financial planners and insurance companies and figure out all of that. You get to gather your Mummy and your Sister in your HoneyBearKelly arms and help them feel safe. It's the other end of all the things they did for you when you were a little tiny HoneyBearKelly and needed them. You can do this. That's why you're there.
I just can't make room for thinking that anyone should be even thinking of the political angles on this. It's the husband's decision and nobody else has the legal or moral right to do more than hope he does what is ultimately right.
The rest is silence. Or fucking should be.
Elaine's thoughtful deployment of capital letters has convinced me, as has her frequent recourse to the word GEEZE.
Worst thread ever. I think I'll go do some actual work.
Cheers!
Don't make me stop this car, kids.
That's about the size of it, 4LG. Thanks.
You're welcome, oh purveyor of the marvelous nudibranch.
For the record, my father died of cancer 2 years ago. It would have pissed me off royally if the government had gotten involved in any of the decisions at the end.
He went into a hospice with a "do not recusitate" policy and died peacefully.
Very few people have living wills.
Do you? Does your family? Do your friends?
So...it ends up guess work. Insurance; when it runs out they kick you out. In the hospital for mental health reasons? The hour the insurance ends, out the door!
See?
So where is our battle now? Kill people? Or talk insurance and public health?
Tonight is the last night of winter. Yeah!!!!!!
But tomorrow we will be a day closer to winter. sigh.....
Completely OT (I really don't want to be on topic): Thers, you've got mail.
Do you really think any of these guys are doing good for this country?
No I don't, so what the fuck does that have to do with the fact that AC doesn't think that Hitler killed jews fast enough? Am I supposed to defend that shit? Are you?
What did they do tonight? Is that a law they passed? What is it? How stupid!
Old Hat makes an ass out of himself from time to time. Remember when he tried to shout EVERYBODY down when it was suggested that Bushco might have stole the election.
Yeah, I remember that.
Remember when Atrios took a week off after being hounded by the Bev Harrises of the world, then he came back and told the Diebold Conspiracy Crew to shut the fuck up?
G'night one 'n'all
See you in the morning when I have a nice new palm to keep away the ghosties and the ghoulies (also a good prophalactic against tragedy in storms, or so they tell me)
I was under the impression AC had been banned at least once before, actually...
Of this I am unaware, but I know that kono was temporarily banned for a rather strident comment, but in that case, he was specifically advocating the use of violence, and whether hyperbole or otherwise, it could have put our host in a spot of bother or worse.
I don't see the same in AC's comment above. Anyway enough of that.
Republicans wear hypocracy like a diamond tiara.
There is a piece in tomorrow's NYT about the difficulties families have in accepting that their loved ones in persistent vegetative states are not coming back. Excerpts ...
"The vegitative state can be described as a state of wakeful unresponsiveness... When the eyes are open, we associate that naturally with sentient awareness, when it is not. And this paradox feeds into the denial that a catastrophic medical event has taken place."
Especially when a patient's eyes open on emergence from a coma, Dr. Fins said, family members are likely to assume that this is evidence of recovery. In fact, he said, it can augur poorly for the patient. When the eyes open but there is no quick return to mental responsiveness, it suggests that the primitive brain stem is reasserting itself, without engaging the higher brain; the cortex and other parts that are involved in thought and emotion.
Why will congress work on the weekend to keep ONE person alive… but will not to anything for our troops?
Because they're fucking asshats, that's why.
Old hat, you're being an ass. Sometimes you really demonstrate that you're 20 something.
Ntodd, it IS time to stop the car and go back there.
See you in the morning when I have a nice new palm to keep away the ghosties and the ghoulies
Just be careful of the damned hooks!
Thers, you've got mail.
Holy Crap!
I do have mail.
This is weird... man, are you a... a... sorceror?
To HoneyBear and all the rest of us out there who have, are, and will go through the death of someone we love....
My very best wishes.
Remember to care for yourself as you care for the one who is dying.
It happens to all of us, sooner or later, and one is never too young to be an orphan (if it's your parents who are passing away).
It's hard - (and DAMN it, I don't mean that in the fucking George Bush "it's hard work" whining sense!!!) - but, really, it is a privilege to attend the death of any human, and most especially that of someone whom you hold dear. Really.
Odd that the GW can't do anything to prevent the death of Karla Faye Tucker, but can do everything in his power to save Schiavo.
If everyone here and 80% of Americans are against keeping this woman alive, I strongly suggest all these people file 'living wills' that clearly state they set limits on medical care.
This would be a good thing, as Martha would say.
Expend your energy and time doing this. I asked earlier how many here have such a thing and there was near dead silence.
Do you have a living will? I do.
I don't see the same in AC's comment above. Anyway enough of that.
1. Buy guns.
2. Jews are the enemy.
3. Hitler didn't kill Jews fast enough.
I'd be happy to see him give that money to charity.
"Why? why should he have to? just because a bunch of fucking right wing wankers got into his family's business?"
No, because that would prove that he wasn't trying to profit from this tragedy.
And those "right wing wankers" would happen to describe her mother and father. Regardless of how delusional they might be in their hopes for their daughter's recovery, they are still her parents, and are suffering greatly.
It's a horrible situation, and I feel compassion for everyone involved.
Ntodd, it IS time to stop the car and go back there.
Could you do it? I'm actually a pretty shitty disciplinarian.
This is weird... man, are you a... a... sorceror?
I knew you were going to ask that. And yes, before anybody else asks, I AM a sorceror. But if there's anything I learned from Spiderb...ah, you know.
Do you have a living will?
Yes, and my brother has specific instructions as to my wishes.
If everyone here and 80% of Americans are against keeping this woman alive, I strongly suggest all these people file 'living wills' that clearly state they set limits on medical care.
Yeah, I believe Atrios made that point on the front page a couple days ago, under the heading "Living Wills."
No, because that would prove that he wasn't trying to profit from this tragedy.
Why does he have to prove anything to you?
OT
normal bob smith is god (you don't appreciate the irony until you've seen the costume)
albert campion peering over the edge of a .50 cal anything (a desert eagle, dare we guess?) is a truly terrifying sight. you don't need to get within three feet with those. albert campion always reminded us of that joke image on Matt Groening from one of the Simpsons clip shows, a gun-polishing hermit hiding from the CIA/Mexicans/ATF/UN/ZOG and angry to be phgotographed.
Anyhoo, we weren't paying attention, and there's this thing on C-Span. It smelled like one of these historical revisionist attempts the Rand-followers have essentially treaded water with since the 40s. Guy refers to a DiLorenzo who "proved" that monopolistic structures didn't exist in the age of Carnegie (ahem. IN THE AGE OF CARNEGIE.) because (quick slight of hand we're sure matters not at all: he slips in a reference to a particular redefinition of monopoly. Of course, Rand-followers always insist on a completely preposterous definition which could never exist to "prove" the impossibility of monopoly, but never mind.) of a "neoclassical" redefinition dependent on what happens to prices. Because DiLorenzo found prices invariably fell (joke exception: castor oil), no monopoly/monopoly good (Rand-followers have to have it both ways). It seems to us there is an awful lot wrong with this, but we have no expertise in late 19th century economics, and a lot of frequenters here are so qualified.
Do you have a living will?
Yes, since I was old enough to have one (18 in NY).
I have sat death watch more than once. And I have watched families panic in the last hours and force the medical staff to "save" people by keeping them alive longer than they should be alive. Usually, the poor people fall into a coma and don't feel anything as the tubes are stuck all over the place. A humilatating death.
Almost always, when someone turns their face to the wall, if left alone, they die.
But this scares people who fear death. Only the living are scared of death. The dying usually embrace it because it stops the pain.
Terry is already pretty much dead. She doesn't feel the pain.
No, because that would prove that he wasn't trying to profit from this tragedy.
Um...so none of us should ever have insurance because it just might look like we're "profiting"? I'd better talk to my wife--I always tell Stef I'm worth more dead than alive...
much as i hate to say it, didn't ah get it right? and wasn't his major flaw not moving fast enough?
Ok, Im missed what ah meant.
I saw an antisemetic tone, but didn't see that.
Sorry, old hat, didn't see where you where coming from.
.
And those "right wing wankers" would happen to describe her mother and father. Regardless of how delusional they might be in their hopes for their daughter's recovery, they are still her parents, and are suffering greatly.
They're caught up in the middle of a rather sordid case of mass hysteria and they are right wing wankers. Sometimes the truth is unpleasant.
And why should the husband have to prove a fucking thing to anyone? Nothing he does is going to satisfy the rabid zealots on the other side.
Let the man honor his wife's wishes without the whole fucking world watching. Christ almighty.
Which network will get the rights to the television move about the heroes in Congress?
A bit late, what with all the curves and detours in this thread, but once again, here is a link to S653, the bill proposed by Reid and Frist on the Schiavo circus:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/qu...y/z?c109:S.653:
I think what this is intended to do is to foreclose the House from executing the subpoenae on Michael and Terri Schiavo and to give the Schindlers one last shot in the court room, this time in Federal District Court.
I know this is a compromise, but if it shuts down the ghastly promise of a hearing room in which a brain-dead woman is wheeled in, I can live with that compromise.
Thanks Bruce. Sorry about your sister.
Cancer is just demonic.
Res Ipsa yeah. He made one out now. But keeping it under control with the chemo but I don't know how long my dad's going to put up with that. Everytime I talk to him he says it makes him so sick and he's lost so much weight. God I hate this. I just have a feeling that he's going to want out and I'm scared that some dickhead won't let him do what he wants to.
I'm getting morose.
Sorry to lay this on y'all.
Good night.
I don't think it has been said in awhile....
The scandal plagued Bush administration.
White House hooker.
Remember when Atrios took a week off after being hounded by the Bev Harrises of the world, then he came back and told the Diebold Conspiracy Crew to shut the fuck up?
I hate to break it to you, but Atrios is actually wrong from time to time.
And so are you.
That isn't Albert Champion. It's not quite his pace and tone and more importantly, he would have responded. Champion doesn't drop a bomb and then leave. It is not him.
Anonymous
Hmmmmm... I dunno. I thought he was a troll a few times in the past, but I don't think he is in the true sense of the word. Sometimes I enjoy picking through his posts, sometimes I skip them completely. As I do with others.
Old Hat makes an ass out of himself from time to time. Remember when he tried to shout EVERYBODY down when it was suggested that Bushco might have stole the election.
Anonymous
Word.
Personally, I like to read a spirited debate on a topic from varied sources... much more interesting than "personal chatter" posts, if you ask me.
STANDARD BOILERPLATE: I deplore anti-Semites and Nazis. Actually, I deplore ALL haters.
I have a friend who did medicare/medicaid billing for a hospital, who told me that it was really common for a family to make the decision to pull the plug on grandma once the benefits were exhausted.
Don't flame me, I'm not being crass here, but this is just good common sense and actually the way things should be. Certain nomadic cultures would simply leave the elderly and infirm behind, when remaining with them was not an option due to lack of resources or when continuing to help them along endangered the survival of the entire group. (the original "Left Behind" crowd)
These people were what is known as "realists". They recognized that death is a part of life, accepted it, and went on doing what they needed to do to continue living.
Trying to divine the will of a sky buddy with regard to prolonging an individual life, whatever its limitations, is a luxury that very few in the world even today can afford to indulge. It's one the Shiavo parents can't afford to indulge on their own dime, in fact. The medical trust set up by the husband has shielded the parents from facing the hard facts about the situation. Should they succeed in their goal, it will be interesting to see how long Shiavo remains on the feeding tube once the trust for her care runs out.
Is there anyone with a national platform who will raise the Nikolouzos case? I believe that Mr. Delay and Congress must intervene here. The whole family wants this man kept on life support. While he may be ventilator-dependent this is not a bar to a long life: see Christopher Reed.
Surely Mr. Delay would not suggest that Spiro Nikolouzos is too old? Who of us can say how long he will live with good supportive care?
The fact that his Medicaid is reaching its limit only means that Mr. Delay's relief bill should include an extension of benefits, since Terri Schiavo is on Medicaid. Protection of life is paramount. I'm surprised that Mr. Delay was not aware that Texas has forgotten that.
Somebody needs to ask Mr Delay about Spiro Nikolouzos.
If he suggests that the courts should speak first, remind him that the deadline is Friday and an emergency bill must be passed beforehand, in case the court verdict is adverse, because ventilator dependent patients don't have time to wait.
By making Terri Schiavo a federal case Mr. Delay has made it impossible to discriminate against this Texas patient if a Florida patient is receiving special relief.
Let's get the videotapes of Spiro Nikolouzos rolling and blog this onto the national stage. Spiro Nikolouzos should have as much chance to recover than Terri Schiavo!
And none of this "We only wanted to address feeding tubes." Ventilator patients can be cared for in nursing homes or even at home. What is more basic than breathing?
I am quite serious about this. If Congress wishes to intervene in all this cases, as it seems they do, let's make damn sure that they intervene in all of them.
Why worry about the brain dead? They don't feel anything.
The soul: it fled long ago.
I don't know this. You don't know this. Nobody knows this.
Maybe she's trapped in that body. Maybe this obscenity has gone on at LEAST a decade too long. At any rate, it's just plain wrong.
I don't know if the Dems have some super-secret strategy that's going to win the day and force universal health care or some other miracle, but I doubt it. NOTHING will force the Repugs to do what they don't want to do. Atrios has dug up a whole wheelbarrow full of their hypocrisy on this issue just in the last few hours -- and none of it's going to make the national press, except maybe Olbermann.
That's my skepticism and my outrage, and I'm stickin' to it.
Can this country really have managed to vote for and assemble such a collection vulgar little rubes? How? They are chumps and punks, assholes who break wind whenever they wish and for the grins of it, acting as if it was someone else. And then people defend them? Who are these people who have opened the flood gates to allow an average citizen to consider and defend aberrant and cruel behavior? Try to defend them trolls, have fun, enjoy, you are right there riding shot gun with the most depraved assemblage of trash we have ever elected. How people can call themselves good christians and then talk of torture as a necessary option is beyond me, just as everything they have done escapes me as sound and just. Shiavo is one more notch in their belt of bitter chaos.
Just saw Sometime In April on HBO. About Rwanda. May be the most horrifying movie I have ever seen. And they left quite a bit to the imagination.
So to end tonight: don't hate the Democratic party for trying to tread water here. It is beyond pointless. If you are all so fired up, well, DEMONSTRATE. Go door to door telling people your ideas. Build a party (ahem).
Or give the Democrats a break.
If you want to really make a difference, go around talking about the Hubbert Oil Peak. To your neighbors, to strangers, to schools, at work, talk about what it is and what it means and how we have very little time left to prepare for it.
Gads.
That is life and death.
ONLY YESTERDAY did a Congressman mention the Hubbert Oil Peak! For the very first time on the Congressional Record! Amazing, isn't it?
I gave my first speech about this thirty years ago.
I know this is a compromise, but if it shuts down the ghastly promise of a hearing room in which a brain-dead woman is wheeled in, I can live with that compromise.
Well, that's conceding the Congress's right to decide INSTEAD OF the judiciary. And that's conceding that Congress has a vested interested in the details of every one of our deaths -- individually.
I hate to break it to you, but Atrios is actually wrong from time to time.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!
What's that apple smell?
If everyone here and 80% of Americans are against keeping this woman alive, I strongly suggest all these people file 'living wills' that clearly state they set limits on medical care.
Schiavo's husband has had numerous court judgements in his favor that concluded he was right in determining that she would not want to be kept alive.
Even if the woman in question had filed a "living will" I doubt it would have made a difference at all to her parents or their insane Republican supporters.
The scandal-plagued Bush administration.
White House hooker.
Snow ... I just shot you an email. Just wanted to give you a heads up in case it winds up in your junk mail folder.
Heck Duncan may be wrong at times, but he is more right in his wrongness compared to some of his critics. 
Ok, ok, ok…. I have NEVER posted here… In fact, I pretty much stay quiet on almost everything. The only one that get to hear my rants are my family and friend.
But all this is just tooooooo much.
Why will congress work on the weekend to keep ONE person alive… but will not to anything for our troops?
Why have they not worked day and night to get the body armor our troops needed?
When did they work weekends to make sure the Humvies meet the requirements needed to protect our troops?
Why have they not spent this time…and all the weekends in the past 2 years working on plans to save the lives of our now 1,520 dead or the over 100,000 Iraqis?
I think these should be our “talking points” Why is Terri Schiavo’s life more important that the lives of our troops and the people in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Can this country really have managed to vote for and assemble such a collection vulgar little rubes?
Yep, they did it and they knew they were doing it.
Assholes. Everyone who voted for bush should be smacked for making us endure this bullshit.
Quick, someone notify Tom Delay of this outrage!
Shorter Tom Delay: Never you mind about my ethics. They're trying to kill a white lady!!
For example here are a few cases of several apparently normal
people with almost no brain.
A few examples? We've been given to understand that 51% of voters fall into this category...
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 03.19.05 - 10:02 pm | #
Haw Haw Haw! Great line!
I know this is a compromise, but if it shuts down the ghastly promise of a hearing room in which a brain-dead woman is wheeled in, I can live with that compromise.
Diane |
Diane, agreed.
Speaking of "left behind", isn't the Tribulation supposed to last 7 years?
By my count, we're now in year 5.
Elaine
Agreed.
The main reason to have a living will is to avoid putting your family through hell.
Terri would not want her family fighting like this.
She probably wanted her family to accept and love her husband the way she accepted nd loved her family and husband.
Now we have her family torn apart by the fucking media and the fucking Congress.
Why would any caring individual want Tome Delay as an advocate?
Get the living will, the health care prox and if a previous marriage and kids, consider a living trust.
Above all have a simple will to keep your assets out of probate,.
Don't do it for you. Do it for the family which will get torn apart
when the shit hits te fan.
Just saw Sometime In April on HBO. About Rwanda.
Haven't seen that. How about "Hotel Rwanda"?
Also, about Kenya, has anyone read "Histories of the Hanged: The Dirty War in Kenya and the End of Empire"?
__________
If you want to really make a difference
If you want to reach people, stop fucking condescending to them and telling them what to do.
Good night, Elaine.
...if it shuts down the ghastly promise of a hearing room in which a brain dead woman is wheeled in ...
Diane,
I respectfully dissent. Having that woman wheeled into a hearing room on live national TV would be excellent because it would make the REpublicans look like exactly what they are: revolting ghouls using a brain dead woman as a political football.
Wheel her in NOW!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
As are we all.
Except for Sam. Sam is perfect and godlike in his furry goodness.
It will be monday before the house and senate pass the bill and president signs it. Then they have to shop around for a federal judge, file motions and hear the case. It will take 2 or 3 more days.
There may not be enough time for Terri and the whole effort may be for nought.
But then the repub effort is not at saving her, but saving their butts with their base.
Well, that's conceding the Congress's right to decide INSTEAD OF the judiciary. And that's conceding that Congress has a vested interested in the details of every one of our deaths -- individually.
monica_nyc
I know that, Monica. Like I said, it's a compromise, one that should never have HAD to be made. However, given the current make-up of the Congress, and the strict limits of jurisdiction within the federal court system, the compromise moves the case BACK to the courts and out of the Congress.
I completely agree that DeLie and Frist bringing the whole issue into the Congress in the first place was horrifyingly wrong. But they did.
Regardless of how delusional they might be in their hopes for their daughter's recovery, they are still her parents, and are suffering greatly.
Here's the mother at her brownshirt-sponsored press conference this morning:
"My daughter is in the building behind me, starving to death," Mary Schindler said. "We laugh together, we cry together, we smile together, we talk together. She is my life.
"I am begging Governor [Jeb] Bush and the politicians in Tallahassee, President Bush and the politicians in Washington: Please, please, please save my little girl..."
The "family" has had 15 years to make their peace with this. According to any standards I'm aware of, the husband has the legal power in this matter - case closed.
As far as I'm concerned, the mother and the father are just delusional fucking wingnuts, desperately in need of therapy, pushing an agenda and riding a gravy train.
PS: in twenty years, we will all die at home just like in the Victorian era.
This battle is a temporary artifact of this time and age, it is a luxury we won't be able to afford in the long run....
STANDARD BOILERPLATE: I deplore anti-Semites and Nazis. Actually, I deplore ALL haters.
MisterX
MisterX, me, too, when I'm being my better self.
Unfortunately, I have days when I hate the BFEE and the neocons, among others.
I'm not proud of it.
Shorter Tom Delay: Never you mind about my ethics. They're trying to kill a white lady!!
Quick, to the Gnat Mobile!
Clearly this is only in the realm of speculation, but does anyone suspect the relationship between Ms. Schiavo and her parents might not have been exactly roses and hearts? Seems to me they're trying to compensate mightily here.
"Why? why should he have to? just because a bunch of fucking right wing wankers got into his family's business?"
No, because that would prove that he wasn't trying to profit from this tragedy.
Um, unless you know when he acquired the policy, of if he's even the person who took out the policy, it's rather pointless to assert that it was purely for profit.
Is everyone who has a spouse with a life insurance policy trying to profit from a tragedy? I thought insurance was there to help defray the costs of death and insure some stable income for your survivors after the loss of an income or an accumulation of medical bills after a prolonged illness.
Sigh.
[Opening mouth to speak, then thinking better of it...]
Sigh.
Wheel her in NOW!
Res Ipsa Loquitor
I confess that I just don't have the stomach for that. I suspect that my waistline notwithstanding, I don't have the guts to push it that far.
I warned the fucking catholic church about the approaching genocide in 1983.
They, like the goddamn americans under Reagan did nothing.
3 - 4 million innocent died while the bishops got drunk on communion wine and the US foreign service waited for a new posting to a more civilized post.
The blood of Rwanda is on the catholic church and all the fucking diplomats who were warned and did nothing.
Um, unless you know when he acquired the policy, of if he's even the person who took out the policy, it's rather pointless to assert that it was purely for profit.
There's not a chance he got a policy for her after her heart attack.
But keeping it under control with the chemo but I don't know how long my dad's going to put up with that.
My mother and her sister both went through the cancer scare in recent years. The most important thing is to be there for them. The physicians will be able to provide the appropriate imformation. You need to be supportive and positive. Mom was happy and cheerful throughout. She put up a brave front. But I could tell she needed us to be optimistic for her because she was really scared. She's doing fine now.
"Except for Sam. Sam is perfect and godlike in his furry goodness."
Sam truly remembers when cats were worshiped as gods...like now.
Ok, ok, ok…. I have NEVER posted here…
MadMadJE
Haw haw haw! That's the THIRD time you posted here now. It's hard to stop once you start, isn't it?
Am I missing something?
These rethug christofacists are usually completely anti-science and now they want medical science to keep this brain dead woman alive?
BTW, via Kos, here's the CAT scan photos...
since when does albert campion abbreviate everything like a web-hip twentysomething? the more we look at that comment the less it looks like albert.
My daughter is in the building behind me, starving to death," Mary Schindler said. "We laugh together, we cry together, we smile together. She is my life."
From the NYT article I mentioned upthread:
"For all our talk about souls and what is the essence of a person, we are far more attached to the body than we know, I think. It is kind of a physical fear, that the person will be out of sight forever out of mind."
These feelings are especially intense in parents who take care of a brain-damaged child. For mothers in particular, said Dr. Elaine Rodino, a clinical psychologist in Santa Monica, Calif., there can be genuine comfort in sustaining even so one-sided a relationship. "Mothers are used to doing a lot of caretaking, it comes so natural," Dr. Rodino said. "It can be filling their time so much that, to them, it really doe sfeel like another person is there -- someone they love, someone they remember caring for dearly. And to admit they're gone, well, it really does change the mother's life."
Sam truly remembers when cats were worshiped as gods...like now.
Which is why we're nabbing him.
He needs to be where he's properly worshipped.
Sigh.
[Opening mouth to speak, then thinking better of it...]
Sigh.
Thank you. I have always thought the text of Samuel Beckett's last play quite moving myself.
I know this is a compromise, but if it shuts down the ghastly promise of a hearing room in which a brain-dead woman is wheeled in, I can live with that compromise.
I understood from a couple of news reports earlier in the day that calling the hearing was simply a delaying (pardon pun) tactic. This is a hearing Congress would have canceled. They wanted to intimidate Judge Greer with the threat of contempt of Congress for interfering with a federal witness, if he stuck with his position that the feeding tube be removed. He bravely blew 'em a big fat raspberry.
Oh, and about lecturing people: this is a forum. It is also a chat room.
But everyone lectures here. Because I dare to disagree with a certain group here doesn't make me evil or the group good.
People post here off and on. No one owns this forum. If any dissenters to the wailing and keening crew get driven off of here, just remember: it is an excellent way to lose.
IF YOU are all so bent up over this stuff, why don't you put your money where your mouths are: attack your politicians demanding they put this woman to death.
See? You will look pretty sour.
"Kill Terry" will sound...sour. If you think otherwise, then do it! Just remember, you may think this will make you popular. It won't but who cares?
We are going into a horrible situation that will make this circus look beyond trivial, it will look fantastic since no one will get terminal health care in 20 years. We won't have SS, either. Probably, not even the USA will exist.
Oil.
War.
Think. Choose your battles wisely.
oh, christ almighty damn.
we've become a country stuck in Philo 101 in a Groundhog's Day movie.
the more we look at that comment the less it looks like albert.
Well, it is spring break. Brownshirts a-plenty on the loose!
And a certain "someone" has been awfully quiet today...
MisterX, me, too, when I'm being my better self. Unfortunately, I have days when I hate the BFEE and the neocons, among others. I'm not proud of it.
Sarah Deere
I know what you mean. I just don't want to become like them. And they make it so difficult.
Gregor Samsa ... Yep. But not stem cells. NEVER EVER stem cells.
4LG:
That's true, he probably didn't take one out on her then because who would grant him one?
Again, we don't know the details about any insurance policy. We don't know how any of it worked. Better yet, it's not any of our damned business, just like it's not any of our business what he does after he gets his check.
After 15 years of this nonsense, the guy deserves a damn life of his own.
since when does albert campion abbreviate everything like a web-hip twentysomething? the more we look at that comment the less it looks like albert.
I think you're right.
I hate to break it to you, but Atrios is actually wrong from time to time.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
Indeed.
The true scandal of out time is Atrios's failure to give me link on his blogroll. He is, on this Important Issue, deeply wrong.
This is what it sounds like, when kittens cry.
oh, christ almighty damn.
we've become a country stuck in Philo 101 in a Groundhog's Day movie.
Sarah Deere
You rang?
(Finally! I'm ready for my closeup!)
I thought AC routinely used abbreviations in his rants.
During the OJ stupidity, I would irritate people by talking about the comet hitting Jupiter. That was a cosmic warning, a shot across our earthly prow!
It could have hit US! If it did, we would all be dead, every living creature, probably dead!
I want a space program that can do something about comets and meteors!
Instead, we are spending money on war toys.
And SUVs.
OJ made not one whit of difference but it entertained people like crazy and everyone was all up in arms about it. It was very divisive.
As this crap is.
And POINTLESS. Utterly pointless. The earth is shaking this winter, it is shaking today, in odd and distrubing ways. The earth just wiped out a quarter million people in a matter of hours. This is getting worse.
Am I missing something?
These rethug christofacists are usually completely anti-science and now they want medical science to keep this brain dead woman alive?
Worse. They want medical science to perform a miracle. This woman has no brain; she has only a brain stem, and a skull full of spinal fluid.
They want science to replace her brain. Or teach her to function without one.
IOW, they want to make her into a GOP politician.
Theri:
According to the Atrios, the reason he usually blogrolls someone is because the people campaign for it, so to speak. You want on his site, promote yourself to him.
Off Topic: Click homepage for link
"Wolfowitz: Won't Impose U.S. Agenda on Bank"
(Reuters) - After helping lead the United States to war in Afghanistan and Iraq, Paul Wolfowitz is fighting a different kind of fight -- to secure approval as the next World Bank president by portraying himself as a consensus builder. From his spacious but cluttered office, the Pentagon's No. 2 official this week waged a campaign to ease fears in Europe and elsewhere that he would change policies at the bank to reflect the conservative Bush administration's foreign and social priorities.
So Wolfowitz says he won't impose The U.S. neoconservative agenda on the Wolrd Bank?
These people think 'old' Europe doesn't know it's dick from it's nose. They don't know the dire needs of the post 9/11 times. They don't know how to act against dictators in Iraq, Iran, and Syria.
Everything this administration has done as part of PNAC has been to undermind the rest of the world and exert total U.S hegemony over those it's neocon masters think are nothing more than children in the U.S adult world.
Wolfowitz *WILL* impose the U.S. necon agenda on the Wolrd Bank. Count on it!
MYOB'
.
(Finally! I'm ready for my closeup!)
Uh, no, sorry, there's a little speck... sort of over there. On the right.
I never understood why the majorleague blogers didn't go after the voter fraud. It's not like it wasn't obvious, it's been pretty much proven now that the unedited exit polls have been released. (check my homepage sometime)
I'm sorry. You can see how sick I am of this, that I would make that kind of joke.
I have always thought the text of Samuel Beckett's last play quite moving myself.
What?
Where?
That should be undermine, not undermind
MYOB'
.
Enough Terry Schiavo for me.
Going to bed in the relative peace of my decadent coastal enclave.
Bon soir, liberal elitists!
FLG,
Did you get a new feline?
If that's fake "albert champion", just think how long it took some schmuck troll to craft that missive. That would've kept his hand out of his pants for a while, at least.
We could always play sleuth and do this:
albert, if you're out there, you once told a story in which you served your dinner guests a dessert with a special added ingredient... what was it?
I understood from a couple of news reports earlier in the day that calling the hearing was simply a delaying (pardon pun) tactic. This is a hearing Congress would have canceled. They wanted to intimidate Judge Greer with the threat of contempt of Congress for interfering with a federal witness, if he stuck with his position that the feeding tube be removed. He bravely blew 'em a big fat raspberry.
Either/Or...they're monsters.
Hey, Res (or Hecate or Snow): if the Schindlers go into Federal Court under S653, is there collateral estoppel from the state court decisions?
Let's worry about Prince Charles and his bride to be. And the queen. Bet her majesty would love to put Charlie's lover into a coma.
Regarding money: It was reported that Michael Schiavo was offered $1 million to walk away. He refused.
He added in an interview the other day, first one he's given, that someone recently offered him TEN million to walk away. He responded with outrage. "You have $10 million? Start a foundation. Teach people about dying and about living wills."
I see absolutely zip that indicates he's out to profit in any way from any of this. The money from the malpractice suit is nearly gone, after however many years post-suit her care has gone on. He wants his wife's wishes respected. He also has said he will NEVER turn her over to her parents, who have said they'd gladly amputate her limbs if necessary to keep her alive -- that comment outraged him.
Send it all to the supreme court.
Scalia wants to execute kids.
According to the Atrios, the reason he usually blogrolls someone is because the people campaign for it, so to speak. You want on his site, promote yourself to him.
(I was trying mostly to invite witty abuse my way so as to change the topic a bit, because I can't bear the thought of much more traipsing around in this man's private pain. If I were him, and this was my wife, I would have flipped out totally by now. I actually don't care about being on Atrios's blogroll, as I'm very happy with where my blog is & what it is.)
Everyone write to Atrios right now demanding he blogroll Metacomments, or I drown KITTENS!
Silleigh:
Oh dear Lord--amputate to keep her alive? Gladly?
I just don't understand people who can't accept that sometimes you have to let go. I really don't.
Heck Duncan may be wrong at times, but he is more right in his wrongness compared to some of his critics.
EkCenTriK
Well my GF is NEVER wrong.
Just ask her.
And I love her to death.
.
What court hasn't had this or refused it for christ sake!
albert was always longer, older (stylistically), hopeless, and really kind of like abraham simpson. he has never been that cleanly blunt about anti-Semitism. that comment got straight to Jew-killing and hitler praise, and it was like a half to a third of the normal size of a campion rant (which itself is only worth ľ of a DAS).
THANK YOU ALL so much for your help with the laissez faire bit. We haven't found an explanation of DiLorenzo, but we have found this, which along with the link at the top to a sort of attempted question-answering for leftish ideology, is interesting.
I just don't understand people who can't accept that sometimes you have to let go. I really don't.
Insecurity, plain and simple.
Theri:
I'm about to reach the space Phila did with this one.
In addition, you won't drown the kitties. You're a great big teddy bear. We know this.
You'll have to try something else.
Diane,
This is the relevant language of the Senate bill: "In such a suit, the District Court shall determine de novo any claim of a violation of any right of Theresa Marie Schiavo within the scope of this Act, notwithstanding any prior State court determination and regardless of whether such a claim has previously been raised, considered, or decided in State court proceedings."
Hoyt:
I'll remember that one the next time a therapist tells me I'm insecure.
Speaking of "left behind", isn't the Tribulation supposed to last 7 years?
By my count, we're now in year 5.
Jennifer | Email | Homepage | 03.19.05 - 10:46 pm | #
According to most of the nutcases in charge of the religious right, Falwell, Robertson, etc, the antichrist was supposed to come into power during the Clinton years.
MYOB'
.
Where the hell is Tom DeLay on these Texas cases? A wee little baby dies after a hospital removes the breathing tube against the mother's wishes. Case was decided by an activist judge FOR the hospital and AGAINST the family.
Well, Mr. Hammer? Where are you? Why is Terry's life worth saving and not the little black baby's life? We're all awaiting your answer. Waiting to hear you grease your rhetoric up to new heights of complete unmitigated gall you worthless sack of shit.
I have always thought the text of Samuel Beckett's last play quite moving myself.
What?
Where?
Good one. But ultimately, it Fizzles.
Diane and Snow
Can you translate that for us???
Wolfowitz *WILL* impose the U.S. necon agenda on the Wolrd Bank. Count on it!
MYOB'
First stop for Condi in South Korea was Command Post Tango (link to Pravda on the Hudson).
Sec of State's first stop is a military command bunker built in to a mountain. A chip off the ol' Bolton block. And the Busheviks wonder why the North Koreans and Chinese scoff at US claims of wanting a peaceful and diplomatic solution to the North Korean situation.
RMJ,
How's this for emotionally exhausted/punchy?
I could while away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head, I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain.
I'd unravel ev'ry riddle
For any individ'le
In trouble or in pain
With the thoughts you'd be thinkin'
You could be another Lincoln,
If you only had a brain.
Hoyt C--I really believe they're compensating for something. I truly do. the parents, I mean.
From Wikipedia:
Preparations for genocide
During this period the rhetoric of Hutu nationalism escalated. Radio stations, particularly Radio-Television Libre des Mille Collines (RTLM) and newspapers spewed hatred describing the Tutsi as subhuman, and pushing veiled calls for violence as radical Hutu groups amassed weapons. The nation became increasingly polarized as neighbourhoods became exclusively populated by only one group.
By the time the genocide started, the militia in Rwanda was 30,000 strong and organized nationwide with representatives in every neighborhood -- one militia member for every ten families.
In order to finance the genocide, money was siphoned from international funding -- the funding provided by the World Bank and the IMF under a Structural Adjustment Program. It is estimated that in Rwanda, one of the poorest and most troubled nations on Earth, $134 million was spent on genocide preparation. Some $4.6 million was spent on machetes, hoes, axes, razors, and hammers. There was one new machete for every three Hutu males.
...
Did this give Karl some new ideas?
I want to run Waiting for Godot through the Shizzalater.
flg, sallyh - I've just talked to DeLay and right after he gets through with this Schiavo nonsense, he's going to push through the Sam The Action Kitten Protection Act.
Everyone write to Atrios right now demanding he blogroll Metacomments, or I drown KITTENS!
More hostage-taking. It'll end in tears.
[Here comes the parting of the Red Sea -- y'know, the part where the Woman causes the Cuckold to chase her Lover out of "bondidge].
On that pyramid prophecy special they had when we were in high school it was clearly stated that May 5th, 2005 is closing time.
Re Scout Prime's plea--we're not lawyers! But we know some around here
Where the hell is Tom DeLay on these Texas cases?
In London, probably, on some Indian tribe's dime.
MYOB
He did, then he went from Texas to Washington.
Well, he also supported the Texas "patients' bill of rights."
Or rather, he told everyone to say that he did after he got his little pussy ass kicked opposing it. Oh yeah, he supported it all along.
Then, after he'd decided that he supported it, he got to be preznit, and told the Attourney General to oppose all filings under said "patients' bill of rights."
When he wasn't chasing down stone tits and calico cats, that is.
Drooling superstitious freaks.
.
But everyone lectures here. Because I dare to disagree with a certain group here doesn't make me evil or the group good.
There's no "certain group." And pretending to be a victim of "Eschatonian groupthink" is one of the lamest dodges out there.
You're not being "lectured"; you're being informed, by a variety of people, who disagree about some things and agree about others, that your argument isn't all that compelling or coherent.
Old Hat and I disagree on lots of stuff. Chomsky, Diebold, you name it. And in this thread, he's made himself even less congenial to my way of thinking by insulting good people like Sarah Deere and Kent. And yet, Old Hat and I seem to agree that you're being tiresome.
HoneyBear -
I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. But I have a suggestion/question...
How well do you know your dad's doctors? That can be very important.
My dad died of inoperable lung cancer. My mom, normally the strong fortress of the family, was crumbling and became confused by all the medical details.
My dad's oncologist (whom I had made it a point to remain in contact with throughout the whole ordeal), toward the very end, took me out in the hallway. He said, "look, we have a choice here. If your father remains conscious, he will be in serious pain. If he is only lightly 'asleep' from the morphine drip -- as he is now-- , he still shows some signs of pain. If I increase the morphine to still his pain completely...well, morphine, in an unintended side effect, slows respiration." He paused and looked at me, then said, "Do you understand?" I said yes. He asked what I wanted. I said, "Stop his pain." He said, "Good, I think that's the right choice. Your mother is in no shape to make this decision now. Thank you."
My dad died very shortly thereafter. Peacefully. He surprised everyone by opening his eyes one last time, and smiling at my mom.
Since then I've discovered that this type of "decision" happens every day, between family members and compassionate doctors. In addition to seeing to the advanced care directives and any other documents necessary, try to be close to the doctors. If recovery for your dad is out of the question, your relationship with the doctors can help make the outcome as peaceful as possible. And make sure that you speak about the final morphine-type scenario IN CODE. Never utter the word "euthanasia." Doctors can help as long as they are not put in legal jeopardy.
Night Moonbats, Fresh out of outrage. Maybe tomorrow. You know what I mean?
On that pyramid prophecy special they had when we were in high school it was clearly stated that May 5th, 2005 is closing time.
Please explain...
Sallyh
I use to work with women with eating disorders. The parents were invariably very controlling and a real mess. And this is a big part underlying the disorder. So I'm sure they are compensating and my hunch is Teri didn't have a very good relationship with them and the husband is well aware of it all.
ED families are the most screwed up and bizarre of any I ever dealt with.
NEWS: 6.4 earthquake hits Japan near Tokyo.
This is the third one today on our planet. Wow. Just wow.
Amazing. The world trembles and shakes and jerks amazingly. No explanation right now for this.
Wow.
Thanks, Snow. I was pretty sure that was the case.
Scout, it means the parents get a clean slate and can re-try all of the issues previously decided in the state court against them.
I can see the District Court judge rolling his eyes from here (left coast).
'Night DWD.
I liked your book, did I tell you?
Of course, the little flip flopping pampered pussy used to support abortion rights, too.
Then, he was told to change his mind.
He did.
It's called "moral clarity." Also known as "our former tobacco spokesmen will sell you your own fucking grandmother as a goddamn matching lampshade and wristband set, because you're an ignorant fucking drooling cracker."
Different day. Same marketing strategy.
.
Maybe you can suggest something. As a matter of fact, you do suggest something. To me you suggest a baboon.
What?
I, uh, I'm sorry I said that; it isn't fair to the rest of the baboons.
For fuck's sake, can't these assholes just rapture themselves already and rid us of their stupidity?
I probably shouldn't have used the word "gladly," but here it is:
link from which this was lifted:
"Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive . . . at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open-heart surgery. Within the testimony, as part of the hypothetical presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."
Wolfson [T. Schiavo's guardian ad litem] told me that when Michael heard this, he said: "That's it. I'm never going to let that happen to her."
Wolfson says the Schindlers later recanted their testimony.
BTW, if you want to see a wild horror movie, Mario Bava's "Bay of Blood" is on IFC right now... some Eye-talian hottie is skinny-dipping as I speak!
May 5th, 2005
Rats, thats a Thursday, can they make it say the 9th? Really messes up the weekend.
And the Busheviks wonder why the North Koreans and Chinese scoff at US claims of wanting a peaceful and diplomatic solution to the North Korean situation.
I'm kinda scoffin' about that myself...
NEWS: 6.4 earthquake hits Japan near Tokyo.
This is the third one today on our planet. Wow. Just wow.
Where were the other two?
Oh, and when are you going to get your own blog? You rule the fucking earth and sky. Do it.
.
Well, that covers a lot of ground. Say, you cover a lot of ground yourself. You better beat it - I hear they're going to tear you down and put up an office building where you're standing. You can leave in a taxi. If you can't get a taxi, you can leave in a huff. If that's too soon, you can leave in a minute and a huff. You know, you haven't stopped talking since I came here? You must have been vaccinated with a phonograph needle.
He also has said he will NEVER turn her over to her parents, who have said they'd gladly amputate her limbs if necessary to keep her alive -- that comment outraged him.
Jesus fucking Christ almighty. I'll bet it did.
Diane
Thanks
And those poor fucking judges.
Tiresome Elaine. Talking about the tiresome planet.
Unlike the scintillating experience of talking here...heh.
See ya all later, I suppose.
Boring Elaine and her talk about shit.
some Eye-talian hottie is skinny-dipping as I speak!
I beg your pardon!
The correct pronunciation is "Eye - tRalian."
"6.4 earthquake hits Japan near Tokyo."
Its those Chinese, burrowing through to the center of the earth. Moving their war machines into place to attack the innocent neo-con as he sleeps in his bed.
There's nothing in Catholic doctrine that requires the extension of life by heroic measures. Nothing at all.
I got a good mind to join a club and beat you over the head with it.
BTW, Hail Hail Freedonia!
Tomorrow on TCM at noon (EST).
Just sayin'.
Silleigh:
Hon, it's still sick. They know what's coming--the doctors are telling them, flat-out, and still they will let their own child suffer that way. For what?
Sallyh, I think you're onto something with that schism theory.
Scout Prime--wow, that's interesting. I was rather under the impression eating disorders were a form of OCD, but maybe you can enlighten me.
On that pyramid prophecy special they had when we were in high school it was clearly stated that May 5th, 2005 is closing time.
That would dovetail rather nicely with the release of The Hitchhiker's Guide movie. You'd have one week to see it.
Tena nails it:
...if this whole carnival proves nothing else, it proves that the Religious Right and the Republicans care nothing about the real pain that real people suffer. Because the 108 people who have died violently in U.S. custody in Afghanistan and Iraq have engendered no outcry whatsoever from the Republicans and the Religious Right. Those were people with functioning brains. They died in terror and agony. Most were tortured to death by Americans. link.
So I want everyone to take a good damn long hard look at the morals of the "moral values" crowd. Then ask yourself what kind of morals dictate lying about and harassing Michael Shiavo, who by all accounts has unstintingly tried to do everything he could for his wife, including having experimental brain stimulation therapy done to try to restore her consciousness. And then ask yourself what kind of morals dictate utter silence over the torturing to death of 108 living, feeling human beings. When you can answer those questions honestly, you will begin to understand just how perverted the "moral values" of the Republicans and the Religious Right really are.
Silleigh
Hell, that just takes the cake, trying to get tickets for a good night to see the film or getting off the planet before the intergalatic road crew shows up.
Don't leave me, Elaine!!!
Elaine!!!
ELAINE!!!
.
Boring Elaine and her talk about shit.
Elaine Supkis
The visionary thinkers around here are awfully prone to self-pity.
There's nothing in Catholic doctrine that requires the extension of life by heroic measures. Nothing at all.
Indeed. While the Catholic Church has a lot to answer for, the number of Catholic hospitals which have moved to a compassionate palliative care model stands to its credit.
Or to be more precise the attempt of a certain group within the Church to do this stands to their credit...
More boring news: the quake was a 7.0.
Ho hum.
Geeze. Did you know a meteor fell near Seattle and at the same time there was a black out and a minor earthquake? Humdee dum.
And all the other rotten news. Oh, look, Reid! He isn't brave like the posters here! Why does he do the things he does?
Ahem.
Attack all Democrats! circular firing squads work!
Wolfowitz *WILL* impose the U.S. necon agenda on the Wolrd Bank. Count on it!
MYOB'
Fuck, it's a Neocon wet dream cum true.
World military domination.
World economic domination.
World monetary domination.
and BTW, a neocon is not just some right winger, as I have seen it used here by some.
.
Old Hat was an original Eschatonian and is consistantly valuable; while he has also told us to go fuck ourselves a few times, his reaction upthread was to somebody opining that Hitler didn't do enough. Our only objection is to the identity of the offender; we see nothing unreasonable in being pissed about some inbred Nazi fuck trying to make leftists lokk like anti-Semites with that crap about all Neo-Cons being Jews.
I want to run Waiting for Godot through the Shizzalater.
I want to run Jabberwocky through the Shizzalater. That would be fucked up. Excuse me a minue...
Phila?
Thanks for standing up for me re: Old Hat/Albert posts.
I apologize for not having thanked you immediately.
I'm not the brightest porch light, but I try to think th ings through and do what I think is right.
I'm certainly open to criticism!!
SD
Sallyh
ED's are a distinct disorder but you often see other disorders co-existing with it, most often depression but can be others. The worst case of OCD I ever saw was in the father of one ED woman. Extreme behavior and this family had lived under it for years.
Parents usually see these women as children. It really is something. They really are not able to let go and let their child grow up, face life in all it's hardships and make mistakes.. So it is not surprising to see Teri's parents holding on the way they are now.
I figured Reid was forcing the white trash to go public.
Maybe I'm just cynical.
.
Good one. But ultimately, it Fizzles. -Thersites
Honestly, I'm stunned you didn't jump srtaight to the story of the blogosphere: More Pricks Than Kicks!
Different day. Same marketing strategy.
Ding Ding Ding
Good Nite all
leftists lokk like anti-Semites with that crap about all Neo-Cons being Jews.
I thought they were Schactmanites.
Trostyites?
Help he out here. Where does "Jew" enter into it?
.
Heh.
I know.
Fast typing sucks.
A note to all: I joke most of the time. Then I get serious. There is reason to be serious sometimes.
Some things are much more serious than others. Wailing at Congress over this matter isn't serious. Congress isn't serious, the whole smear isn't serious. This is a carnival tonight. Even as serious stuff happens all around us, some of it pretty scary.
Carnivals are fun. So are jokes. Here is one:
'Bring out your dead"---'he isn't dead yet'---etc. Monty Python always had it right on.
Clean sheets in the Land of Eternal Springtime.
I use to work with women with eating disorders. The parents were invariably very controlling and a real mess.
Teh 2 girls I've known in my lifetime had extremely controling fathers and fucked up mothers. I'm sure there are many combinations of the situation, but that was mine. I've always heard that ED was more about control than weight. But the, I am a sykiatrist, after all.
Oh, Good evening, free thinking Moonbats.
Thank you Kent, I'm going to name a kind of hops after you.
Oh, shit. Someone beat me to it.
Oh, well. It's the thought that counts.
.
i sincerely hope terri schiavo strokes out or has a PE or something. Jeezuz H. Krist. Let the woman die. Oh, and i hope TommyBoyDelay and all the other numbnuts who voted for this crap end up like Terri at the end of their lives. It's only fair.
bigvic
You are right it is definitely about control.
Oh, crud.
Last night, watertigerblogged a pic of Babs Bush, and I gave a passing snarky caption. But sitting here, watching Outlaw of Gor, the MST version, with clan Thersites. I relize I missed my caption.
*Ahem!*
"Oh, It's breastacaboobical, chesticalmammical, pendular, globular fun!"
Damn.
http://derenegade.blogspot.com/2...tion-it-
im.html
Phila?
Thanks for standing up for me re: Old Hat/Albert posts.
No problem!
I gotta say, this thread has not been a bed of roses for anyone. And in retrospect, I do think the AC post probably was a forgery. He's out there...but I don't think a guy who worships Victor Jara's going to be all that gung-ho for Hitler. Who fucking knows.
Old Hat's heart's in the right place, I think, but he's a bit prone to take an emotional position and...uh...run with it. I can relate, I guess.
Carnivals are fun. So are jokes. Here is one:
Did you hear the one about the Creationist Solar Probe?
It's supposed to land at night.
.
Grand Moff Texan
Ooooh. Oh. So bad. So so bad.
Good one. But ultimately, it Fizzles.
Thersites
No, no, that was his novel.
And NYMarisquito--thanks for the first good (although sick, truly twisted) laugh of the day.
Got a headache. Off to bed.
God be with ye all....
Rats, thats a Thursday, can they make it say the 9th? Really messes up the weekend.
Friend, that would be the day of my birth, maybe we can cut a deal, and call it late on the evening of the 8th? Then I can remain forever young at the age of 29.
EkCenTriK,
Yeah, well. I'm drunk. You get what you paid for. [soundtrack: Black Sabbath]
Elaine, we love you!
.
OK, change in soundtrack: Zeppelin: How Many more Times?
Elaine: I've found Japanese and Tennesseean earthquakes.
Where was the 3rd one?
.
Whassamatter? Wheredeverybodygo?
I bathed and everything!
[hic!]
.
Grand Moff Texan
You are drunk? Good! I am stealing that joke. You will never remember the theft later. Hah!!
Where are you finding stuff about earthquakes today?
I guess I'm not not as drunk as I think I was.
Shit.
What was all that ESB I paid for?
We love you, Elaine!
I'll take you
home again,
Elaine!
Ok, it's too late for soggy Star Trek St. Paddy's Day references.
.
Mrs K8
Word.
SD
EkCenTriK,
What joke?
Where's my fucking beer?
Fuck you, you stole my fucking beer.
Fucking fuck holes! Stealing fucking fuck beer!
Fuck.
[hic]
.
Elaine, I appreciate your posts!!
SD
Where was the 3rd one?
.
Grand Moff Texan
There was a small one in South Korea.
A fun fact to know and tell: there are roughly 37,300 earthquakes per year in California alone.
Elaine!
[knocks over guitarists' amps]
[steps in American 'beer']
we looooooove you!
.
Old Hat's heart's in the right place, I think, but he's a bit prone to take an emotional position and...uh...run with it. I can relate, I guess.
Phila,
well, yeah!!!
SD
Boring Elaine and her talk about shit.
Elaine Supkis
Why do you guys do this?
She wasn't out of line and had a good and debatable point.
Maybe I missed something in the past and it's obvious to everyone but me that she's an asshole.
But really, you guys come across, sometimes as some high school clique.
Thinking you’re just SO cool, and anyone that isn’t in lock step with you must be derided.
Call this my mini incog rant.
(damn, i did a spell check with Word on this and the only thing it caught me on was incog! SHIT!)
agave
Hear, hear.
"F***ing f*** holes! Stealing f***ing f*** beer! "
Yep sounds like a Texan. I learned a long time ago when they get all soggy eyed over the Alamo and start singing the Yellow Rose of Texas it is time close the bar.
Elaine [hic] we love you!
I dunno even what they're [hic] talking about!
Come [hic] back!
.
Alamo!
Fuckin' A fuckin' right, dude.
It's only like the fucking Thermopylae of Texas an' shit!
[hic]
You may talk about your...
[hic]
[swallow]
[nearly hurl]
[privately selling Buicks]
beats the belles of Tennessee!
.
She wasn't out of line and had a good and debatable point.
Her point was debated, it seems to me.
It's obvious you don't like some of the people who post here. That's fine.
The "clique" you're talking about includes me and Old Hat - two people who agree on very little, and have argued about stuff many times. Sarah Deere said she appreciated Elaine's post; did I yell at her about it. Kei and Yuri defended Old Hat, who's argued with 'em any number of times, as they themselves point out. Kent argued that Albert's post wasn't necessarilyu offensive...I don't know if AC actually wrote it, but I do think what it said was perfectly clear. In other words, I disagreed strongly with Kent, but there was no problem.
I really don't understand this kind of talk.
Well, I popped in for a long-ish comment a bit earlier, and have been reading this thread with interest, but now that I have to get off the computer again, I don't want to leave without saying:
Hey, dear fellow moonbats! I've missed y'all and wish I could hang out here as much as I used to. Life has intervened, although I do try to at least read the A-Man's main thread postings, even if I can't keep up with the comments.
I had a medical procedure this week myself, and hope to be back to participate more soon.
Keep faith! The news has been truly dreadful, but just reminding myself of this community of thoughtful people has helped me keep my sense of resistance strong.
Thanks!
Oh, by the way: just yesterday I was on the phone with a credit card customer service rep (who hadn't yet been outsourced!) and when I said, "I don't know how you feel about the Bushies, but they're driving this country over a cliff," he said, "Well, I think I'm not allowed to say anything, but...I'm with you. And I think the revolution is inevitable." It surprised the hell out of me, and cheered me.
Neo-Cons being Jews.
kei & yuri
The core group IS.
Do I read you wrong?
.
P.S. Mr. K8 checked out the USGS website a few minutes ago. Holy shit! Numerous large earthquakes. Tonga, Fiji, Bolivia, and more. The links leading out of that website? He couldn't get any to work, and now it seems like the USGS site is also down.
Fucking weird. Gonna check the news.
The core group IS.
Do I read you wrong?
No, but it's about as meaningful as their bloodtype.
.
The thing that gets me is that families have no ability to end their loved one's suffering quickly through an injection. Everyone has to wait for the person to starve to death for upwards of two weeks. Maybe the person is suffering, maybe not. But the family sure as hell suffers quite a bit during that time frame, I'm sure. Watching a loved one waste away slowly. That's just...horrible.
Watching a loved one waste away slowly. That's just...horrible.
san antone rose
I completely agree. It's a nightmare. But then, euthanasia's problematic too. It certainly would be in this situation...can you imagine trying to give Ms. Schiavo a lethal injection in the current climate?
There are no easy answers here, that's for sure.
The core group IS.
Do I read you wrong?
No, but it's about as meaningful as their bloodtype.
.
Grand Moff Texan
That is just plain stupid.
Type O blood types have no agenda.
Don't have hugely funded PACS.
Shit, are you defending PNAC and all they stand for?
.
Thinking you’re just SO cool, and anyone that isn’t in lock step with you must be derided.
Oh, fer heaven's sakes. If we can't take diffgering viewpoints and debate them seriously and responsibly, what hope is there?
If you get more than two chimpanzees in a setting, there's gonna be trouble.
Sometimes, all it takes is two of us to disagree.
We need to live w/this, people!!! We need to honestly, and with our intellects intact, debate/discuss the issues we are confronting.
Anything else would be...well, stupid.
And profitless (and I don't mean money).
"Well, I think I'm not allowed to say anything, but...I'm with you. And I think the revolution is inevitable." It surprised the hell out of me, and cheered me.
Mrs. K8 |
See? It comes from the most unexpected places. I, too, have had such experiences, which is why I am hopeful!!
We're as weird about death as we are about sex.
WTF
SD
Agave, I asked you a reasonable question....would you mind answering it? You've obviously got a problem with me, and that's alright. I don't think people are obligated to like me. Hell, I don't much like myself, a lot of the time.
But when you talk about "you guys," I find it sort of disturbing. I don't see much evidence of some "clique" attacking Elaine, let alone refusing to debate her points. What gives?
Oh, fer heaven's sakes. If we can't take diffgering viewpoints and debate them seriously and responsibly, what hope is there?
I agree with you. I don't understand any of this stuff. It's supposed to be important to debate things, because if you don't, you have groupthink. But then, disagreements somehow become evidence of groupthink. I don't really see how anyone can win in a set-up like that.
All right... I'm sorry, my bad...
You are all the children of Thersites. You may all give unto me gifts. As the Alligator King said unto his Seventh Son, especially.
Florida State sucks ass, tho. Uh, sorta...
I'm going to weigh in one last time and then pull the plug on an annoying fucking day.
Earlier tonight, those refusing to view today's Schiavo developments through rose-colored glasses were called at best naive and at worst trolls. The shoe was on the other foot at that point. Check the Red Alert thread after 8pm or so.
In this thread (among other problems), we got lectured basically for being ON TOPIC. Anything, everything, was more important than the subject of the freakin' thread -- oil, war, earthquakes, comets. Apparently it's not okay for the host to decide the topic.
I normally love Elaine's posts but she played the same note for hours. It gets tiresome, especially when someone assumes you don't understand them -- when you DO understand them, and simply don't agree. It's okay to disagree. It's not okay to beat someone over the head with it, not between people posting in good faith.
</rant> Tomorrow will be a better day.
Day Two and that bitch is still alive in Florida? God, think of the pain her husband and lawyer must be feeling waiting for the settlement check to finally arrive. They are the ones really suffering.
I agree with that guy on PBS the other night. He said, in effect, that he was delighted that she was going to die. We all should be. Get the ovens and the champaigne ready.
I normally love Elaine's posts but she played the same note for hours. It gets tiresome, especially when someone assumes you don't understand them -- when you DO understand them, and simply don't agree.
I don't know. I don't want to come across as a jerk, but I think I'm within my rights to feel that we don't need to score cynical political points off this stuff. I don't recall ever having had a problem with anything Elaine said in the past, but after listening to these GOP jackals exploit this situation for weeks, the last thing I want to hear is "We need to be more like them!"
Tomorrow will be a better day.
Silleigh
Here's hoping!
The thing that gets me is that families have no ability to end their loved one's suffering quickly through an injection. Everyone has to wait for the person to starve to death for upwards of two weeks. Maybe the person is suffering,
She is not suffering. The court said she is brain dead . Her husband, his common law wife, and his lawyer are ones suffering. They have bills to pay and boats to buy for God's sake. They are decent people and have waited long enough. End it now, I say, so they can get the money and be done with it.
My grannie is suffering too. I am going to have her euthanized soon to put her out of her misery. Her million dollar estate has nothing to do with my decision. Trust me. We should have to right in this country to kill (rich) family members any time we feel like it because we know when they are suffering don't we?
Watching a loved one waste away slowly. That's just...horrible.
san antone rose
I completely agree. It's a nightmare. But then, euthanasia's problematic too. It certainly would be in this situation...can you imagine trying to give Ms. Schiavo a lethal injection in the current climate?
There are no easy answers here, that's for sure.
Phila | Email | Homepage | 03.20.05 - 12:10 am | #
Phila, why should individual decisions re: confronting one's own death be open to discussion among strangers?
Talk about obscenities.....
And, oh, Just a Guy,
Fuck you.
Phila, why should individual decisions re: confronting one's own death be open to discussion among strangers?
Sarah, that's exactly what I find most disturbing about it. The entire thing is a huge invasion of privacy. I just don't feel comfortable debating the "course of action," like it has anything to do with any of us.
Fuck you.
Sarah Deere
Amen to that. What a fucking jackal. May he reap what he's sowing a thousandfold.
Re the Teaxas baby case:
Hudson said she wants an autopsy to determine if her baby really had a fatal genetic disorder.
Not necessary. The baby obviously had Excess Melanin Syndrome.
Do you want to die with dignity? What is THE definition of life? Both good questions. Sure, the first one is a resounding YES! And, the second one has a legal definition.
Please forgive my long-windedness, but , we need perspective.
In contrast to the widespread disagreement over when human life begins, there is a broad social and legal consensus regarding when human life ends. Rarely has the point been made that the definition of human death can be applied to the question of when life commences with compelling symmetry. The definition of when life ends is both scientific and objective, and does not depend on personal belief or moral viewpoint. The current medical and legal understanding of death unambiguously defines both when human life ends and when it begins in a manner that is widely accepted and consistent with the legal and moral status of human beings at all stages of life.
Death is something most people readily recognize when they see it. People express very little confusion about the difference between a living person and a corpse. Surprisingly, however, the distinction is not as clear from a medical and scientific perspective. There is very little biologic difference between a living person in the instant before death and the body of that person an instant after death. Yet some property has clearly departed from the body in death, and that property is precisely the element that defines “human life.” What, then, is the difference between live persons and dead ones? How is death defined medically and scientifically?
The question of when and under precisely what conditions people are viewed as “dead” has itself been the subject of considerable debate. Traditionally, the medical profession considered a person dead when his heart stopped beating—a condition that rapidly results in the death of the cells of the body due to loss of blood flow. As the life-saving potential of organ transplants became increasingly apparent in the 1960s, the medical community undertook a reexamination of the medical standards for death. Waiting until the heart stops beating results in considerable damage to otherwise transplantable organs. After a long and contentious debate, a new standard of death was proposed in 1968 that defined “brain death” as the critical difference between living persons and corpses, a standard that is now widely (although not universally) accepted throughout the world.
Brain death occurs when there has been irreversible damage to the brain, resulting in failure of brain functions.
This was written in 2003 by Dr. Maureen L. Condic.
Sure, this appears on the surface to be just another point-of-view. However, it is based on our laws and design. We have accepted these terms. We understand these terms. It's impossible to argue these terms. Unless you are a sociopath who enjoys inflicting silent pain and anguish on someone who cannot express their distress. This poor woman is locked in a cage with no way of asking to get out. People, we need to let her get out. She is SHITTING herself daily. She has NO motor skills at all. No control over her bladder. No ability to converse with another human being. And, quite likely, no understanding of what is hapenning to her. I disagree with the starving. Even convicted murderers are allowed a quicker and less painful death by injecton. What constitutes life? In a nutshell, i believe they are telling us that life is defined by living. What is living? Being capable of a large amount of your functions at the very least. What functions does Terry have? We know she can smile, she can digest the food she is being given through a machine, she can... lay in a hospital bed for more than a dozen years and only show signs of getting worse. No signs of improvement. NOW THAT'S LIVING!! Am i right? And, lastly, we should be ashamed of ourselves for all of this. We have no right to intervene in a family case like this and enforce our opinions in the first place. Political figure heads, GET THE FUCK OUT. This is disgusting. Leave the family to use the ACTUAL law to deal with this. Not the congress, who has no right to intervene in the first place. Nuff said.
The whole "through sickness and health" thing was just a bit of facetiousness right?
Just a Guy:
There is no money left, $50k out of an original $750k. The remainder was promised to charity, but you idiots have seen to it that lawyers get it all.
HREF="http://floridahealthinfo.hsc.usf.edu/
TheresaSchiavoFinalReport1Decemb
er2003.pdf">Click Here For Link To 38 Page Report
**ALSO**
Click
Here For Interesting Article w/links
sorry abut that--click on this link for teri shiavo 38 pg. report that jeb bush got from a court guardian he appointed to find out terri's status--it is pdf. file
HREF="http://floridahealthinfo.hsc.usf.edu/
TheresaSchiavoFinalReport1Decemb
er2003.pdf">Click Here For Link To 38 Page Report
**ALSO**
Click
Here For Interesting Article w/links
here is is again hopefully the hyperlink will come out
HREF="http://floridahealthinfo.hsc.usf.edu/
TheresaSchiavoFinalReport1Decemb
er2003.pdf">Click Here For Link To 38 Page Report
**ALSO**
Click
Here For Interesting Article w/links
Cute young WASP girl - do everything to save her.
Old Greek guy? Pull the plug! What? He's just sleeping? Pull the plug anyhow!
The racism of the radical right.
These people are freaks. Always on the lookout for some banner to wave. How likely do you think it is that some poor sap is on life support who lacks insurance, who didn't have anyone to file a lawsuit and they are pulling the plug on that person today? These cretins aren't interested in finding that person. They are just looking for another poor soul to put on their "culture of life" flag, while in the back room they are designing new treaty breaking weapons each day.
I know we have a tendency as humans to reduce the world to us and them to good and evil but one of these days I swear Frist's eyes are going to start to glow red on the Senate floor.
http://tinyurl.com/ebrl
Right to Life backed law that irks wife
I suspect that Dr. Pate's comment was misrepresented in the original article posted, and that what he was saying was that the hospital makes the decision on grounds of medical ethics, but that the (for-profit) receiving institution takes finances very much into consideration (surprise, surprise). I'd be surprised if St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital based their decision on financial considerations. The committee includes medical ethicists and chaplains. Continuing care in both these cases was judged to be not only futile but actually inhumane.
george w bush is a flip-flopping coulter.
--ghw bush
p.s.:he was a moron when babs farted him out of her coulter. he's been a moron ever since. though we are thugs, we sincerely apologise for his existence--even we didn't think we could fuck the world into such evil. thank god we didn't lynch condi's pop when we could--who'd know the little uncle thomassina would be of such help and lie through her gaped teeth for our lil moron...
Sorry bad link Try this:
http://tinyurl.com/5ny82
i hope 'just a guy' will come up to nyc. many terminally ill people on the street; hospitals overflowing with uninsured people seeking medical care; maybe he can give them life support. if he doesn't believe me, he can meet me in nyc; i'll gladly paralyze him [don't have to worry about making him braindead]; o 'just a guy' will be begging me to pull the plug...
Here are some of the medical ethicists, physicians, and nurses who serve on the St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital Medical Ethics Committee:
http://www.bcm.edu/ethics/faculty.htm
If you click on their names, I think you will see from their qualifications that the people who are stuck with having to make these tough decisions are the kind of people you would want involved if your own family were in this situation.
Hypocritical as hell. Funny how money tends to distort judgment, isn't it?
I'd have no objection to this law if the ethics committees making the decision to unplug were prohibited by law from having any connection to the hospital, but when they are paid by the same entity whose actions they sanction, conflict of interest is inevitable.
I can't find the reference that says this is a law that Bush signed, just that it is "state law" in Texas.
Anybody?
I can't find the reference that says this is a law that Bush signed, just that it is "state law" in Texas.
Anybody?
According to this, the original version of the bill that made this change to the state law (at the time applicable to adults) was made law in 1999.
George W. Bush was "governor" of Texas in 1999. He signed the law.
Another bill went through in 2003, expanding the provision to cover minors.
It would be really helpful to have a link to an article about the law Bush signed. I need backup for a major middle-ground bbs argument!
When it comes to rifles, you'll see the Repubs filling their mouth saying that being an American is about being free to have a rifle, and that freedom is a sacred right, above anything else.
When the issue is abortion, or the right to a quiet death they get so very much interventionist...
since the fundies believe in souls and heaven, doesn't it disturb them that if they keep a soul inside a living but unfunctional body, it will be like trapping a soul inside a motionless prison without being able to move on?
From spiritual point of view, it can seem like a very sick way of torture.
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