I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
What's that sound?
Oh yeah... crickets.
It wouldn't have suited the campaign for this to have gotten out. Chimpy's earpiece would have melted during the debates.
Liars? They were lying?
Uh oh...
Holy god, that's....stupid. FUBAR. something.
Hooray for our incompetent shadow government.
Slutty Pakistan.
Kind of gives new meaning to triangulation...or a three-way, you think?
Lara killed Marlenus!
If only Kim Jung Il would wear a blue dress from the GAP.
Then, maybe, just maybe, people would care.
Meanwhile, sane people all over the world despise the american people just a little more, for letting this go on.
Hooray for our incompetent shadow government.
Thersites
I'd agree with you, but that'd be groupthink.
Meanwhile, sane people all over the world despise the american people just a little more, for letting this go on.
mena
And laughing their asses off at our buying into the lies.
The scandal-plagued Bush administration.
White House hooker.
Right wing zealots.
I'd agree with you, but that'd be groupthink.
I am, indeed, a group.
And laughing their asses off at our buying into the lies.
Diane
==
Yep. Ouch.
Pakistan's role as both the buyer and the seller was concealed to cover up the part played by Washington's partner in the hunt for al Qaeda leaders, according to the officials, who discussed the issue on the condition of anonymity.
So whose ox are the anonymous sources after?
[Speaking of Asia, was the boy king in the Philippines this weekend?]
The constant lying is nothing short of pathological.
The sun in the meadow is summery warm.
The stag in the forest runs free,
and somewhere a glory awaits unseen,
tomorrow belongs to me!
Sing along, folks!
Fatherland, Fatherland, give us a sign!
Your children are waiting to see...
The morning will come when the world is mine!
Tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs to me!
And you better believe it or Rummy and Condi'll come kick some ass!
World News]: Islamabad, March 19 : Pakistan Saturday carried out a successful test firing of its nuclear-capable long-range surface-to-surface missile Shaheen-2 also known as Hatf VI, an official statement said.This missile system, which incorporates an advanced two-stage solid motor technology, can carry all types of conventional and nuclear warheads to a range of 2,000 kilometers, it said.
It seems like one of these revelations comes along every week to 10 days. How many are there now that would have sunk Clinton (and mind you this is the Big Dog I'm talking about, nearly unsinkable). But since Katie and Matt aren't talking about it the average American has no idea. It goes nowhere.
So what *is* the solution? Maybe there is a liberal counterpart to Fox in the works but until then how does this information make it past the right's firewall?
Since the Dems don't have the ability to carry these stories forward maybe it is left to us.
Isn't this how it works on the right - talking points come down from Rove and the media outlets are barraged?
How many people would it really take to flood select outlets and make a difference? Not many I suspect.
This place and others like it are a refuge for all of us for sure but what is the point of all this bitching without some results? We have a lot of smart, industrious, motivated people here. We could organize our efforts and at least have an effect on the media and Congress- maybe. Just my thoughts this last night of this long, long winter.
Meanwhile, sane people all over the world despise the american people just a little more, for letting this go on.
It isn't all of us.
There is some sanity left in the U.S.
Insurgencies are built from less.
The truth will make you free.
That would not help the program, so better lie. It's always worked for them before.
-
I think it's at this point that Bugs holds up the little sign with a large screw above a baseball, and slants his eyes rightward.
The constant lying is nothing short of pathological.
Technically, it's the demonstration of our Commitment to Democracy.
Umm...
Slutty Pakistan.
We got 'em beat. We're pimps, whores, AND johns. U-S-A! U-S-A!
May I throw up, now?
I realize that politics and politicians have been beyond conscience for many, many yrs.
So, why, now, do I raise my slumbering head and up and go "WAIT A MINUTE!!!"
I don't know. I just know that I do, and that I feel more threatened by my gov't than ever before.
Oh, and re: Pakistan, you lay down with dogs, you get fleas.
I'm beginning to think the Bush Administration killed Laura Palmer.
Sarah, is it that before we've had incompetent government and now we have incompetent government alloyed with a truly fearful competence in evil?
It is pathological, dave. We've shown the world our collective ass, and that doesn't just go away when this admin finally, thankfully, goes down(may that day fly toward us on winged feet). This breed of "conservative" seems to have no problem with burning ALL our bridges.
Pakistan.
Greatest. Ally. Ever.
There should be more of an acknowledgement of how important a victory it was for Bush to keep Pakistan on our side of things from the start. He never gets the credit for that that he deserves.
Twin Peaks.
Pakistan.
Greatest. Ally. Ever.
Old Hat
I think you're shortchanging our Saudi friends, don't you?
Pakistan's role as both the buyer and the seller was concealed to cover up the part played by Washington's partner in the hunt for al Qaeda leaders, according to the officials, who discussed the issue on the condition of anonymity.
They're lying to you. Again.
Get them on the record.
They're lying to you. Again.
Get them on the record.
They're lying to you. Again.
Get them on the record.
I'm pretty sure that when this story about the Norks supplying Libya, the Norks said clearly that it wasn't them.
Sort of like Saddam saying he didn't have WMD. Furious George stood there and said, who are ya gonna trust?
Well after so many lies from the Busheviks, who are ya gonna trust? The Liar In Chief in the White House?
He never gets the credit for that that he deserves.
Toby Petzold
You are correct in that what Shrub deserves bears absolutely no relation to what he has received in his life.
There should be more of an acknowledgement of how important a victory it was for Bush to keep Pakistan on our side of things from the start. He never gets the credit for that that he deserves.
There should be an acknowledgment that this is a fucking abysmally stupid thing to say and that Toby is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
Well after so many lies from the Busheviks, who are ya gonna trust? The Liar In Chief in the White House?
It's not easy to have less credibility than Kim Jong Il or Saddam Hussein, but Bush has managed to pull it off.
U-S-A! U-S-A!
Vas, love the handle. Keith Laumer fan?
And absolutely correct about the Boy Blunder.
Fat. Don't forget he's fat, too.
Toby, go fuck yourself.
Just go fuck yourself.
Oh, and enlist while you're at it.
Thanks for your anticipated cooperation in both endeavors.
Jeebus, I hate feeding trolls. But I just ain't in the mood tonight.
He never gets the credit for that that he deserves.
Yes, selling nuclear technology to Libya and Egypt was surely a good thing. In the long run. As long as it wasn't proliferation. No, it wasn't so good after all.
No, no, it's true. w to date hasn't received anything remotely like what he deserves.
The one consistent rule of Bush's foreign policy: never attack or even threaten any country that has any real power. Even North Korea and Iran are probably too formidable for these blowhards—not that I'm completely unhappy about that. We might as well get some benefit from Bush's yellow streak.
There should be an acknowledgment that this is a fucking abysmally stupid thing to say and that Toby is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
Thersites
That's no fair. If we can't trust a military dictator who presides over a snake-pit of Islamic fundamentalism, and gives nuke secrets to our enemies, who can we trust?
You'd probably rather we were fagging it up with those socialist fags in Canada, right?
Man, that was awkward. But, you know..
Didn't we attack Iraq because they had WMD's and if they didn't have WMD's then because Saddam was supporting terrorists or because Saddam was an evil dictator and besides we had to bring Democracy™ to the Middle East?
Gee, who do we know that supports terrorists, has WMD's, has a dictator and is Bush's best bud besides the Sauds? Good thing we kept them on our side, eh? I'll be glad to give Bush credit for sucking up to "good" dictators. You bet'cha, Toby.
When did these sales happen, anyway?
North Koreans = "Norks"?
My Cute-O-Meter just redlined, Tom. Wrapped the needle around the peg, and shattered the glass. Should I buy a new one? Or is it a waste of time? I mean, that's the 4th in about a year...
Jeepers H. Farking Christmas. What fresh hell/outrage awaits? There is too much dirt from this admin to digest.
If we can't trust a military dictator who presides over a snake-pit of Islamic fundamentalism, and gives nuke secrets to our enemies, who can we trust?
Watch it, Yuri.
Why, the next thing you know, you'll be snarking at our secular democratic pals in Jordan. And Uzbekistan.
Commie.
socialist fags in Canada
Glenn Gould-loving, pacifist-welcoming northerners. Thank god for Mexico.
Oops.
Toby, you'll recall, is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
Fox News Story from 23 May 2004
""""Now, we believe that it might have been" North Korea who supplied the substance, said one of the diplomats. "It's a definite possibility."
The diplomat said the evidence from the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency (search) was based on interviews with members of the clandestine network headed by Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Pakistani scientist implicated in selling his country's nuclear secrets to Libya, North Korea, Iran, and possibly other countries."""
So you see the allegations about North Korean involvement came originally from members of the Pakistani proliferation profiteers. Of course the Busheviks would run with this info... or if you dig perhaps you'll find that they encouraged the lie by Khan's network to further Bushevik goals in exchange for the US forgetting about Khan and democracy in Pakistan.
You know what the apologists are going to say? That Bush is doing his best, and trying really hard. Swear to God that's what you're going to hear. Despite how fucked up his plans always turn out, we Americans need to get behind Bush because he tries really hard.
I'm so goddamn tired of the presidency being The Special Olympics.
And I apologize for any offense taken at the reference to The Special Olympics, of which I am a supporter.
But COme The Fuck On. After September 11, why wasn't the overall tone: "Somebody really fucked up."? All we hear from Bush and his apologists is they try real hard. Well, goddammit, as a citizen, I'm the boss of these people and I expect some results!
I'm still celebrating St. Pats day, so it may be the Guinness talking.
Responsibility and We, the People are so 2000, Drunkee.
The Bush administration's approach, intended to isolate North Korea, instead left allies increasingly doubtful as they began to learn that the briefings omitted essential details about the transaction, U.S. officials and foreign diplomats said in interviews.
No one in this entire world (outside 45% of U.S crazies) trusts or believes Bu$Co about ANYTHING. He is a proven liar.
Wait till they get a load of Bolten and Karen Hughes. That'll help! Hahahahaha.
I am, indeed, a group.
Does that make me a groupie?
we Americans need to get behind Bush because he tries really hard.
Riiight.
WaPo:
a North Korea-Pakistan transfer would not have been news to the U.S. allies, which have known of such transfers for years and viewed them as a business matter between sovereign states.
So the gist of this article is that our allies feel used because we claimed that uranium hexafluoride shipped from North Korea was actually transshipped to Libya via Pakistan?
Again, when did these sales take place?
Lies, so what else is new?
War is Peace!
Does that make me a groupie?
Only if someone groups you.
''Although the briefings did not mention Pakistan by name, the official said they made it clear that the sale went through the illicit network operated by Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, Abdel Qadeer Khan....''
That would be the A.Q. Khan network Bush claimed repeatedly in the campaign had been rolled up.
We couldn't give a rats ass about Korea and their puny handful of nukes. MAD works when it is one sided. We are more worried about the alliance between China and Russia and the other one between Germany and France. Looks like keeping that monopolar moment doesn't jive well with the decline of the dollar. So many plates to spin at the same time...
Drunkee,
Oh, it's not just you. Bush has fucked up everything he touched his entire life. He just moved on from failure to failure. Well he's got almost 4 years to deal with the consequences this time, and he can't walk away.
There should be more of an acknowledgement of how important a victory it was for Bush to keep Pakistan on our side of things from the start.
Pakistan the military dictatorship? Pakistan the world's greatest nuculear proliferator? Pakistan the protector of Osama bin Laden? That Pakistan?
Only if someone groups you.
No, dear, you're confusing "groupie" with "gropee".
Phila.... Do you know much about liquid natural gas (LNG) containers infesting the coastal ports?
I can't get the comment sections to work for me. Calpine is based in San Jose, and I guess Eureka stopped it and we are trying to stop it in Warrenton, on the mouth of the Columbia. (but the port there gave them a 65 year lease-sooo they have property rights) The port their tricked the citizens by informing them a mere 2 days before the lease was signed.
Buenas noches, moonbats.
Formula One is calling.
Hasta mañana
Remember:
Toby is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
Big Vic,
I just wish I could walk away from his fuckups.
OT, and forgive me for harping on this yet again, but everyone here does realize that a forged DIA document was fed to the Wash Times, which claimed that journalist Bill Arkin of "Code Words" fame was a spy for Saddam Hussein?
Tob, did you miss Logic 101? Just wondering...
"...the Bush administration told its Asian allies in briefings earlier this year that Pyongyang had exported nuclear material to Libya."
That's not the same as "we claimed that uranium hexafluoride shipped from North Korea was actually transshipped to Libya via Pakistan?"
But you knew that, didn'tcha?
We couldn't give a rats ass about Korea and their puny handful of nukes
But that won't stop the IncuBush from using N. Korea as an excuse to continue pumping millions into the StarWars program.
Drunkee:
You know what the apologists are going to say? That Bush is doing his best, and trying really hard.
Would you attribute any part of the exposure of the A.Q. Khan network to Bush's pressure on Musharraf?
My my, the tranzis at work again. Busy with their clever bushitler sloganeering. Alright crackpots, I'm game. Which of you leftist America hating homos is gonna be my first meal?
No, dear, you're confusing "groupie" with "gropee".
Are you sure?
I've set up a little demonstration over here to help you figure it out...
No, dear, you're confusing "groupie" with "gropee".
Or *am* I?
*rub stubble meaningfully*
Groupie or Grope-ee?
Either way, the mental picture is delicious
Phila, that's the second forged DIA document fed to the Moonie Times, IIRC.
Would you attribute any part of the exposure of the A.Q. Khan network to Bush's pressure on Musharraf?
No.
Only an idiot would say otherwise.
Phila.... Do you know much about liquid natural gas (LNG) containers infesting the coastal ports?
I try to keep up on it, but it's hard. It wears your brain down! I blogged on the one they're trying to do in Louisiana, that'll take thousands of acre-feet of warm water and chill it to near-freezing temperatures. And if memory serves, the British want to build one virtually atop a very unstable WWII munitions graveyard.
If you're talking about my comments being down, I know it. Blogger-based commenting has sucked for the last couple of weeks.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I mean, really.
There are so many lies and travesties with this administration and yet nothing ever happens to them in terms of consequences.
Thus, the collective snoring sound you hear is the sound of the American public and the corporate media responding to the continually deceitful and outrageous actions and pronouncements of the Bush Aministration.
For example, will this revelation even be talked about tomorrow on the Sunday morning talking head TV shows?
I mean, in a relatively healthy society, the public would have been calling for Bush's head after the revelations about his and his Administration's derelictions of duty that led to the catastrophe of 9-11 started to come to light.
Instead of doing so, they let him lie them into a quagmire of a war over non-existant WMDs and then, after that rationale was shown to be bullshit, and after revelations about torture policies came to light, went so far as to reward him with a second term.
And the members of the Democratic "opposition" Party rejected the one viable candidate that somewhat stood up to Bush's shit (Howard Dean) and chose "electable" Vichy collaborator John Kerry to run against Bush.
The problem is the majority of the American citizenry. They just don't care enough to be informed and/or to act upon what they find out.
So, if the majority of the rest of America doesn't care enough about all of this stuff to do anything about it, why shouldn't I just go ahead with my plans to permanently leave this fucked-up country?
Isn't Libya the country with the dangerous mustard gas turkey farm?
Toby:
No.
Now go enlist.
Pakistan's role as both the buyer and the seller was concealed to cover up the part played by Washington's partner in the hunt for al Qaeda leaders,
No fucking Duh!
This is news?
Did we miss the whole Khan thing?
Jesus, it was obvious from the get go, that we let Pakistan and Khan slide cause of their efforts to get OSBL, or so they say.
.
Phila, that's the second forged DIA document fed to the Moonie Times, IIRC.
Old Hat
Really? Do you happen to remember the details of the other one, offhand?
"...the Bush administration told its Asian allies in briefings earlier this year that Pyongyang had exported nuclear material to Libya."
Ata:
That's not the same as "we claimed that uranium hexafluoride shipped from North Korea was actually transshipped to Libya via Pakistan?"
But you knew that, didn'tcha?
AQK facilitated it. Bush isn't holding Musharraf responsible for that, so I don't see what the difference is, effectively.
Again, when did these sales take place?
Sometime within the last two years it appears from reading the article.
you guys.
is it hot in here or is it me? (fanning face with hand)
Only an idiot would say otherwise.
I think one just did.
Phila
thanks
is it hot in here or is it me? (fanning face with hand)
watertiger
Both!
There should be an acknowledgment that this is a fucking abysmally stupid thing to say and that Toby is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
I'll acknowledge it.
In fact, I believe Toby has grown even uglier in the past hour.
is it hot in here or is it me? (fanning face with hand)
It is definitely you that is hot.
Would you attribute any part of the exposure of the A.Q. Khan network to Bush's pressure on Musharraf?>/i>
Toby is stupid and ugly and ugly and stupid.
a) It's not a lie, because the intelligence could be interpreted in a way that suggests that the connections existed, because certain witnesses can't refute the refutation of the original story, and if you had access to the same intelligence that Our Administration has, you would conclude that it absolutely shows what we said it did.
b) We never said Pyongyang had exported nuclear material to Libya. That was a lie reported by the liberal media. And it was taken out of context.
c) OK, maybe we did say it and maybe the evidence is not as solid as we first thought, but that is definitely SOMEONE ELSE'S fault. Possibly the interpreter's. Probably the intelligence community's.
d) OK, so we said it, and we knew it wasn't true. What the hell you gonna do about it? We aren't gonna quit and nobody will give a rat's ass about this because it's something only ivory tower liberal elite pinheads care about. It has nothing to do with Survivor or steroids or American Idol or a blowjob from an intern SO I GUESS YER JUST SHIT OUTTA LUCK AINCHA.
Magnolia,
Actually, now that I think of it, there's an excellent energy-related blog that just had an LNG story...
Link.
It's pretty gruesome.
I still say Jeff Gannon's tied up in this somehow.
Police said 45,000 people were taking part in the march which wound from Hyde Park Corner past the US embassy to a rally in central London's Trafalgar Square.
A coffin was placed in front of
the US embassy in London As the coffin was laid down, the crowd chanted:
"George Bush ... Uncle Sam. Iraq will be your Vietnam."
Has a nice ring
My Cute-O-Meter just redlined, Tom. Wrapped the needle around the peg, and shattered the glass. Should I buy a new one? Or is it a waste of time? I mean, that's the 4th in about a year...
doozer
Should I tell ya 'bout Little Elvis, the Dear Leader of the Norks? Gotta love his haircut and the jump suits.
watertiger,
Look for lower thread for improbably better Babs Bush caption.
Better straight black skirt? or lace?
For example, will this revelation even be talked about tomorrow on the Sunday morning talking head TV shows?
Well, to be fair, the Bushies lying doesn't really qualify as "news" any more...
" A.Q. Khan network "
Surely no-one seriously believes that Kahn could proliferate nuclear technology throughout the world without the Pakistani government knowing about it?
Would you attribute any part of the exposure of the A.Q. Khan network to Bush's pressure on Musharraf?
No, you dunce, we wouldn't.
Chimpy's minions did everything they could to keep the whole thing from coming to light.
The didn't want to jeapardize the alliance with Pakistan in the WOT.
Toby.
Gaddafi has been a major league demon since the days of Reagan, at least according to the Tom Clancy set in charge in the 80's and now back in charge today.
He got some potentially nuclear material. Bush's administration lied and said it came from the NK's, when instead it was originally sent to our ally Pakistan, who then resold it to Libya.
Doesn't that last paragraph set off all manner of alarm bells to you that somebody somewhere isn't doing his job?
I can break it down further if need be.
Better straight black skirt? or lace?
Black lace?
Ho-Hum. Wake me up when the bush admin doesn't lie about something.
Those of you in the eastern time zone are ahead of us, but from one from the midwest a Happy Vernal Equinox to all Freethinkers and Moonbats.
And keep thinking Spring bigvic!
Better straight black skirt? or lace?
Allright! Can we stay on topic now, now that the topic is pretty hot?
Except, of course, that Toby is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
Black lace?
Give to me your leather.
The didn't want to jeapardize the alliance with Pakistan in the WOT.
fourlegsgood
Well, it's not like they totally let AQ off the hook. My understanding is that a couple of rooms in his villa are a little drafty in the colder months.
Really? Do you happen to remember the details of the other one, offhand?
Here.
Here.
Old Hat
Excellent, OH...thanks a million!
I opens the doors, and they walks right through.
(kissy face to you all)
GODDAMN IT, TOBY!!
WHEN ARE YOU GONNA STOP AVOIDING THIS CHALLENGE?!?!?
Here it is again, for the umpteenth time:
WHY AREN'T YOU IN IN UNIFORM AND IN IRAQ, MOTHERFUCKER?
If only Kim Jung Il would wear a blue dress from the GAP.
Devil with the blue dresss, blue dress on,
Devil with the blue dress on,
Devil with the blue dresss.....
OT, but while Aravosis isn't happy with it, this Times Magazine drive-by with JimmyJeff is deliciously snarky. Here's one of my faves:
Q. What are we supposed to make of the fact that before reporting for Talon News, you had never had a job in journalism and apparently earned your living running a gay escort service?
JJ. Don't let that confuse the issue. We have driven so many good people from public service through the politics of personal destruction. People on the left who disagreed with me decided that I needed to be punished by any means necessary.
Surely no-one seriously believes that Kahn could proliferate nuclear technology throughout the world without the Pakistani government knowing about it?
If he could terrorize the galaxy and drive Kirk crazy I guess it's possible.
So the gist of this article is that our allies feel used because we claimed that uranium hexafluoride shipped from North Korea was actually transshipped to Libya via Pakistan?
Toby Petzold
Nothing in the article suggests the uranium was transshipped.
Wrong terminology from someone who has lived his entire life far far away from ports and never done a day's work near international trade.
Simply put North Koreans sold their used car to the used car dealer, Pakistan. The used car dealer then sold this used car to the Libyans. The US comes along and blames the Norks for having their former used car ending up in the Libyans' driveway.
It's another deliberate lie on the part of the Busheviks to BUmruSH allies in to signing on to bogus Bushevik foreign policy strategies.
NYMary,
You wear the lace, I'll wear the leather. Deal?
If he could terrorize the galaxy and drive Kirk crazy I guess it's possible.
Kahn! KHAAAAAANNNNN!
SP.......OCKKKKKK! RED......Al....ERT!
WHY AREN'T YOU IN IN UNIFORM AND IN IRAQ, MOTHERFUCKER?
Jeremiah Elias
My understanding is they wouldn't let him in 'cause he's ugly and stupid and no one likes him.
On the other hand, there are rumors that he does have a small unit under his command.
[lounge lizard voice]
It's Gettting Hotttt in Heeeerreee..
So Take off all your clothes......
{/lounge lizard voice]
My understanding is that a couple of rooms in his villa are a little drafty in the colder months.
They hardly ever let him see nudibranch either.
It's a tragic existence.
Toby?
The important thing isn't what the trolls think, their microthoughts are irrelvant.
Now who's left among our allies just assume we're lying. For God's sake, Canada delivered a mighty bitchslap to us over the Star Wars thing. Canada. Like, our closest ally ever.
you had never had a job in journalism and apparently earned your living running a gay escort service?
JJ. Don't let that confuse the issue.
Ooooh, good comeback!
You wear the lace, I'll wear the leather. Deal?
watertiger
So we'll know who is who at Eshacon.
hello, late night atriobots. i'm checking in now that mom, sis, and nephew are asleep.
man. i'm clearly in the 'marginal' culture in this country, that's for sure.
So we'll know who is who at Eshacon.
FeralLiberal
Even with our blindfolds.
Drunkee,
I'd like to walk away from Bu$hCo too.
Howdy, Eli. Have fun this evening? I had a good Sat. night till I started reading some of the horseshit on this thread and the last one. Aww, hell, I'm still having fun dreaming of Babylon and shit. Heh.
You wear the lace, I'll wear the leather. Deal?
To steal your earlier question, 'is it hot in here or is it just me?' BTW, I'm melting.
Toby?
Still too stupid to live.
I still don't think anyone likes him either.
Another tragic existence.
dreaming of Babylon and shit. Heh.
bigvic
Did you get some bullets for your gun?
That picture of Shrub on Eschaton almost looks as if he has two noses.
Circus material.
So we'll know who is who at Eshacon.
I'm gonna confuse the fuck out of ALL of you and wear both.
Hiya, vic! Been a pretty decent evening, although I'm rather peeved at the MVP Baseball 2005...
weeeel. after reading this thread, i now feel less in the margins. ahem.
personally, i think lace and leather go nicely together, but that's just me.
"According to recent published reports, CIA analysts felt these visits were designed to put pressure on them to tailor their analyses more to the liking of administration hawks.
In some cases, NESA and OSP even prepared memos specifically for Cheney and Libby, something unheard of in previous administration because the lines of authority in the vice president's office and the Pentagon are entirely separate. "Luti sometimes would say, "'I've got to do this for Scooter'," said Kwiatkowski. "It looked like Cheney's office was pulling the strings."
"Rather than working with the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, its Near Eastern Affairs bureau, or even its Iraq desk, for example, they preferred to work through Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security (and former AEI Executive Vice President) John Bolton; Michael Wurmser (another Perle protégé at AEI who staffed the predecessor to OSP); and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs Elizabeth Cheney, the daughter of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney."
Old Man:
Surely no-one seriously believes that Kahn could proliferate nuclear technology throughout the world without the Pakistani government knowing about it?
That's true. Musharraf would have known. But he's saving his own ass and responding to the demands of domestic politics by going easy on Khan. The bottom line is that they both got busted. So Bush is in a position to buddy up to Musharraf for the immediate gain of having an ally on Afghanistan's border. If Bush lets him off the hook, Musharraf will be more helpful to us.
So I guess the big beef now is that Bush is covering for Musharraf by making North Korea out to be the bad guys. Well, guess what, comrades: they are the bad guys.
If he could terrorize the galaxy and drive Kirk crazy I guess it's possible.
As opposed to the neokhans, who just terrorize the one planet and drive *us* crazy.
chicago, tell us all about your favourite dead can dance record.
fourlegsgood
One in Leather, one in Lace, one in both.
No confusion and we'll all know who you are.
personally, i think lace and leather go nicely together, but that's just me.
Me too.
I shall be a goth, punk centaur.
Wearing a nudibranch hat.
Phila,
Got the bullets AND the Walther. (sp?) I loved "The Detective."
This nuke proliferation story is the Dep't of Energy work.
Cheney daughter has Mideast role
February 15, 2005
"WASHINGTON – Elizabeth Cheney, the daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney, will become the second-ranking U.S. diplomat for the Middle East, the State Department said yesterday. "
"Cheney, who previously worked in the department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs and left to work on her father's 2004 re-election campaign, will become the bureau's principal deputy assistant secretary of state."
Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs
The Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, headed by Assistant Secretary William Joseph Burns, deals with U.S. foreign policy and U.S. diplomatic relations with these countries and geographic entities: Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.
Major Burns from M*A*S*H revisited?
No confusion and we'll all know who you are.
Plus, y'know, the whole four legs thing.
North Korea out to be the bad guys. Well, guess what, comrades: they are the bad guys.
Toby Petzold
You are irretrievably stupid.
We've been asking why bush hasn't been more interested in NK for fucking years now.
I wash my hands of you.
So I guess the big beef now is that Bush is covering for Musharraf by making North Korea out to be the bad guys. Well, guess what, comrades: they are the bad guys.
Then we shouldn't need to get creative with the truth in order to convince other nations to support our goals with respect to N.Korea then, right?
But I guess since North Korea are the bad guys, it's OK to lie to other countries, since we - who dislike the bad guys - must necessarily be the good guys.
We are not North Korea, therefore we are above reproach.
Ironclad.
As opposed to the neokhans, who just terrorize the one planet and drive *us* crazy.
Indeed.
And toby is still too stupid to live. Give it up, Toby. Do something useful, like enlist.
Oh, Toby is stupid and ugly. Nobody likes him.
Wait you mean Cheney's daughter ran near Eastern affairs- Morrocco.
Hmmm, Madrid?
Marge tutwiler (NYSE's VP) was the ambassador to Morocco on the staging timeline too... aside from her director of Iraq's Communications post during the inital war stages...
Tom:
The US comes along and blames the Norks
Right. Because the great offense of it all didn't come when North Korea shipped nuclear materials to Pakistan, but when North Korea was unconscionably blamed by Bu$hitler for supplying Libya. Ha, ha, ha. You fucking people are a joke.
Plus, y'know, the whole four legs thing.
Eli
==
4LG, sagittarius?
Wearing a nudibranch hat.
fourlegsgood
I think they ought to make nudibranch slippers...
Eli,
Don't know what MVP Baseball is. A game? Heh. We had seafood (and sobbed about ((((BUBBA))) and watched basketball. Double overtime in the Wake Forrest/W. Va. game. Whew!
chicago, tell us all about your favourite dead can dance record.
gob | Email
yearhgh! i hate foreign computers...
um, they are all cool? in their own way? including the lisa gerrard stuff, the mirror pool etc. DCD is not about anyting for me except beauty. i admit to being wholly uncritical with them. that's just because i love them so much, and they are good to dance and drive to.
Just ignore the moronic brownshirt fuck.
Eh, back to work for me. Goodnight, you moon-free bat-thinkers!
So I guess the big beef now is that Bush is covering for Musharraf by making North Korea out to be the bad guys. Well, guess what, comrades: they are the bad guys.
Nim:
Then we shouldn't need to get creative with the truth in order to convince other nations to support our goals with respect to N.Korea then, right?
The other members of the sexpartite talks know very well what kind of a place North Korea is. The only people who don't are assholes like Clinton, Holbrooke, Albright, and Kerry who think we should be bribing them into compliance.
This country will never survive if its foreign policy comes again under the control of such Democratic shitheadedness.
Right. Because the great offense of it all didn't come when North Korea shipped nuclear materials to Pakistan, but when North Korea was unconscionably blamed by Bu$hitler for supplying Libya. Ha, ha, ha. You fucking people are a joke.
God-damn are you stupid. Insanely stupid. Ugly, too. And nobody likes you.
mena, libra actually.
Phila, slippers would work, though do you think they'd be squishy?
Don't know what MVP Baseball is. A game? Heh. We had seafood (and sobbed about ((((BUBBA))) and watched basketball. Double overtime in the Wake Forrest/W. Va. game. Whew!
Yep. My game of choice (High Heat) has been discontinued, alas. I haven't been able to get into basketball since college. My friends were all big fans and knew their stuff, so it kinda rubbed off temporarily, but without their influence, I just can't bring myself to give a damn.
Poor Bubba. I never even got a chance to meet him.
2. Testimony of Sen. Bob Graham, Intelligence Oversight and the Joint Inquiry, Hearing of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, May 22, 2003, online at http://www.9-11commission.gov/ar..._2003-05-
22.pdf at pp. 53-54
Rats. I thought I had solved your name.
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
___________________________________
STEVEN AFTERGOOD )
Plaintiff, )
) Case No. 02-1146 (RMU)
v. )
)
CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
although I'm rather peeved at the MVP Baseball 2005...
Eli
Does the game self-destruct when it realizes that 360 people could live comfortably off the salary that Roger Clemens is paid to play a child's game for part of the year?
Much to do in the morning. Sleep well all (when you choose to) and a Wonderful Vernal Equinox to All!
The Department of Energy is a cabinet-level agency whose mission it is to foster a secure and reliable energy system that is environmentally and economically sustainable, to be a responsible steward of the Nation's nuclear weapons, and to support continued United States leadership in science and technology. Its Office of Intelligence, as a member of the Intelligence Community, brings the broader Department's unique capabilities and perspectives to bear on intelligence problems and challenges.
Mr. Murder,
Since we have no free press these days, I'm surprised you found this.
Cheney daughter has Mideast role
Wow. This should be part of open government, right? JHC.
DCD is not about anyting for me except beauty. i admit to being wholly uncritical with them. that's just because i love them so much, and they are good to dance and drive to.
Their good stuff is *really* good, like some of their instrumentals, and "Spirit". I think my current top choice for "beauty" has to be Delerium, though. There's some good Enya as well.
Troby will continue to deny Shrubbery's involvement until the cows come home. At which point, Troby will molest the cows and continue to deny Shrubbery's involvement.
But keep on blaming Clinton, Troby. It will make you feel better.
Rats. I thought I had solved your name.
My name is a mystery?
Really?
"DOE's Contribution to Intelligence
The Department of Energy’s Office of Intelligence (IN) is the Intelligence Community's premier technical intelligence resource in four core areas: nuclear weapons and nonproliferation; energy security; science and technology; and nuclear energy, safety, and waste. Tapping the broad technology base of DOE’s national laboratories and the international reach of the DOE complex as a whole"
My friends were all big fans and knew their stuff, so it kinda rubbed off temporarily, but without their influence, I just can't bring myself to give a damn.
So when it comes to college football, you like the Miami Hurricanes.
Yes, you do. You are getting sleepy. The problems on the O-line are solved. Sleeeepy.....
Nighty-night, Feral. Dream of Spring.
Oh. My. God.
Just saw a commercial for It's Just Lunch dating service for busy professionals. Not sure why it gave me the creeps, but it sure did.
Leadership of the Intelligence
The Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) leads the Intelligence Community. He serves as the President’s principal advisor for intelligence matters related to national security. He is assisted by the Deputy DCI for Community Management (DDCI/CM), the National Intelligence Council (NIC), the Associate DCI for Military Support (ADCI/MS), and the National Counterintelligence Executive (NCIX
My name is a mystery?
==
Maybe just to me. 
Does the game self-destruct when it realizes that 360 people could live comfortably off the salary that Roger Clemens is paid to play a child's game for part of the year?
No, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened to High Heat.
The problems on the O-line are solved.
But what about the groove-line?
ha ha, flG, you're educating so many here...
eli: yes. you're right. delerium rocks. what are they up to? 25 albums? but enya: no. i'll go with locust over enya any day. and many others. sorry.
So when it comes to college football, you like the Miami Hurricanes.
Sorry dude. They're my least favorite college football team on the planet. They're like the Baltimore Ravens of the NCAA.
Chicago
you probably are familiar with it, but if not, you should purchase This Mortal Coil immediately.
What are your feelings, if any, for the Cocteau Twins, particularly Blue Bell Knoll and earlier?
My name is a mystery?
Hahaaha. 4 leggers, you are an ANIMAL!
Mr. Petzold:
If you want to understand why it is not helpful to be lying to other nations when we are negotiating policy with them - even if the country being lied about is in fact doing Bad Things - there is a treatise that may be of help.
ha ha, flG, you're educating so many here...
Now what did I do?
Foreign Policy In Focus | Global Affairs Commentary | Pentagon ...
... Bureau of Intelligence and Research, its Near Eastern Affairs bureau, ...
Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs Elizabeth Cheney, ...
www.fpif.org/commentary/2003/0309feith_body.html
eli: yes. you're right. delerium rocks. what are they up to? 25 albums? but enya: no. i'll go with locust over enya any day. and many others. sorry.
Have not heard of Locust, will have to check them out.
bigvic, I can't help it I tell ya!!
The problems on the O-line are solved.
But what about the groove-line?
Winston will anchor a great line. If it holds Wright should have the targets. Go 'Canes!
Sorry, yes, I do care about this shit...
Pentagon Office Base for Neoconservative Network Manipulating Iraq Intelligence
Pentagon Office Base for Neoconservative Network Manipulating Iraq Intelligence
By Jim Lobe | September 15, 2003
"An ad hoc office under U.S. Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith appears to have acted as the key base for an informal network of mostly neoconservative political appointees that circumvented normal interagency channels to lead the push for war against Iraq."
They're my least favorite college football team on the planet. They're like the Baltimore Ravens of the NCAA.
Eli
The Oakland Raiders used to thrive on being reviled. But going 0-49 for the last few years hasn't helped their image as a team to be feared. Oh, to be hated once more!
I must say I rather enjoy being mysterious.
i am a big 4ad fan, as if it wasn't obvious.
And the Wolfgang Press album Queer was the best album of the 90's. Or extremely close to it.
WaPo:
The Bush administration's approach, intended to isolate North Korea, instead left allies increasingly doubtful as they began to learn that the briefings omitted essential details about the transaction, U.S. officials and foreign diplomats said in interviews.
No names, eh? Just a lot of sniveling shit about the lie of the Administration's "approach."
Who else is there to convince that North Korea is a bad actor and needs to be fixed? Even a lot of you anti-Bush out-patients used to say how much more important it is that we deal with the North Koreans than the Iraqis.
Are you surprised that North Korean nuclear materials wound up in Libya?
Rather than working with the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, its Near Eastern Affairs bureau, or even its Iraq desk, for example, they preferred to work through Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security (and former AEI Executive Vice President) John Bolton; Michael Wurmser (another Perle protégé at AEI who staffed the predecessor to OSP); and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs Elizabeth Cheney, the daughter of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney.
Aww..see, I guess I thought it was something other than a dumb sexual reference. Don't know where I got that.. 
"She added that OSP and MESA personnel were already discussing the possibility last January of "going after Iran" after the war in Iraq, and that articles by Michael Ledeen, another AEI fellow and Perle associate who has been calling for the United States to work for "regime change" in Tehran since late 2001, were given much attention in the two offices."
Sorry, yes, I do care about this shit...
Leave your worries behind.....
So when it comes to college football, you like the Miami Hurricanes.
Sorry dude. They're my least favorite college football team on the planet. They're like the Baltimore Ravens of the NCAA.
My beloved 'Canes. My... school. Indeed. (I did go there.)
PUNS AT FIFTY.
"According to recent published reports, CIA analysts felt these visits were designed to put pressure on them to tailor their analyses more to the liking of administration hawks."
Interesting
'In some cases, NESA and OSP even prepared memos specifically for Cheney and Libby, something unheard of in previous administration because the lines of authority in the vice president's office and the Pentagon are entirely separate. "Luti sometimes would say, "'I've got to do this for Scooter'," said Kwiatkowski. "It looked like Cheney's office was pulling the strings."'
Indeed.
Toby is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
Aww..see, I guess I thought it was something other than a dumb sexual reference. Don't know where I got that..
Not about sex.
The Oakland Raiders used to thrive on being reviled. But going 0-49 for the last few years hasn't helped their image as a team to be feared. Oh, to be hated once more!
They're pretty far up my list, but it's more for Al Davis than the players (except Romanowski, and I think it's Ron Middleton who's the obnoxious loudmouth). Also the 49ers, from having them shoved in my face through four years of college (I pretty much hate *all* Bay Area teams)...
Nim:
If you want to understand why it is not helpful to be lying to other nations when we are negotiating policy with them - even if the country being lied about is in fact doing Bad Things - there is a treatise that may be of help.
Good stuff there, Nim. However, since there's no wolf on Earth that can eat the Boy without dying, too, it doesn't really matter how often he has to cry out to get his way.
"I've got to do this for Scooter"
These words should never be uttered by or about our government officials.
My beloved 'Canes. My... school. Indeed. (I did go there.)
I know, dude. Y'all have some very talented, very obnoxious players down there. Blech.
(Ray Lewis. 'Nuff said.)
hicago
you probably are familiar with it, but if not, you should purchase This Mortal Coil immediately.
What are your feelings, if any, for the Cocteau Twins, particularly Blue Bell Knoll and earlier?
gob | Email | Homepage | 03.20.05 - 1:44 am | #
blah! bad connection during a 4ad discussion! blahd!
ok: locust: ultra. same phase as the pixees, in their own way. um, CT- yes and no. the earlier stuf is excellent, the later (las vegas)) not so much. This Mortal C- they are among the greatest. ha ha, who doesn't steal from them now, among the electronic? there are others of course.
imho: r.smith is the one true god.
John R. Bolton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... Before joining the GW Bush administration, John Bolton was Senior Vice ... Announcement of Nomination of John Bolton as US Ambassador to the UN ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton - 28k - Mar 18, 2005
John R. Bolton was sworn in as Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security on May 11, 2001.
Prior to his appointment, Mr. Bolton was Senior Vice President of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). AEI is a nonprofit public policy center dedicated to preserving and strengthening the foundations of freedom through research education, and open debate.
Now, "I've got to do this for cooter" is something else altogether.
when I was one I was just begun
when I was was two I was barely new
when I was three I was hardly me
when I was four I was not much more
when I was five I was just alive
but now I'm six and clever as clever
so I think I'll be six forever and ever.
(*Held in great contempt by Dorothy Parker)
Even a lot of you anti-Bush out-patients used to say how much more important it is that we deal with the North Koreans than the Iraqis.
Are you surprised that North Korean nuclear materials wound up in Libya?
Toby Petzold
Toby. Give up.
If, as you yourself just said, Bush had dealt with NK when our original objections were made, instead of shooting his wad down his leg in Iraq, then Libya and Ba'al only knows who else wouldn't also have the bomb.
That was our point then, and that's why we're pissed about it now.
What trolls don't get is that we're not anti-America.
We're anti-people and policies who would make this great country into the second rate superpower that current leadership seems determined to lead it into.
Jesus died roughly 2000 years ago. It's a pretty fair bet that the global complexities of today are a might bit more advanced than anyone of that era could fathom.
Evening rebels. Quick drive by. I see the Tiny Terror of Eschatown is hard at work dancing in poo-poo and furiously running his hind legs together.
I must say I rather enjoy being mysterious.
4LG,
No disrespect, but I like two legs better Especially when they're all nicely leathered-n'-laced up.
I was gonna miss Eschacon, but its sounding better and better.
Gob:
Jesus died roughly 2000 years ago. It's a pretty fair bet that the global complexities of today are a might bit more advanced than anyone of that era could fathom.
What does that mean?
Four legs,
If they gotta guess about your handle, literature is dead in public education. Sigh.
gob - there was something Thersites wanted folks to remember..
I write for raiderfans.net and have written posts on forums at phinheaven.com, giants.com
They pulled the poltiics forum at one of those boards. One of the Phinheaven members was a former aide to the ass't gov. of NJ (Rep).
He paid membership there to moderate and scrubbed vloumes of information I put up there on the neocns. Guess he took it personally when I asked why they closed down 4 area VA hospitals then bragged about opening extra beds at one location.
And they cut so many VA funds in NJ and NYC that manhattan was getting bleedovers from NJ and vice versa for downsizing.
Was my first experience with censorship at the public level after dealing with the same in the communications industry at the University level.
I know, dude. Y'all have some very talented, very obnoxious players down there. Blech.
Um, and some good ones. Jon Vilma: over a 3.5, fun to watch, great hits.
The 'Canes have a better graduation rate than any other team in DI that ever contends. The rep you have is out of date.
No disrespect, but I like two legs better Especially when they're all nicely leathered-n'-laced up.
How do you know?
"mite bit"
dammit I hate it when I do that.
"rubbing" not "running". Jeez, all the naughty-bad-talk has me rattled, but in a friendly, big-pants kinda way.
i hated the ravens the first year they were here, just on principle. i am into them now. their best players actually came out of u of miami, btw.
and ray lewis didn't do anything anyway. they had to let him go because they couldn't think of anything to charge him with. jamal lewis smokes weed. big fucking deal.
What does that mean?
It means Toby is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
Jesus never existed, This is a myth, one of many.
Um, and some good ones. Jon Vilma: over a 3.5, fun to watch, great hits.
I like the Jon Vilma, and the Santana Moss. But not the Brock Berlin, nooo.
I should theoretically not hate the 49ers now that they're pitiful, all the players that irritated me are gone, and I don't have to hear about how great they are every day. And yet I still do.
I hold sports grudges for a long, long time.
was gonna miss Eschacon, but its sounding better and better.
i have to go to bed soon, but i want y'all to know: i'm taking suggestions about the better part. tell me, and we'll make it happen. hee hee, seriously.
Oh, Bigvic.
Oink.
Thers,
I'm about to start sobbing and shoving gobs of Dove Bars into my face. Is it Bubba, moronic trolls or just needy needy needy? Boo Hoo Hoo. Get me my Dove bars!
and ray lewis didn't do anything anyway. they had to let him go because they couldn't think of anything to charge him with. jamal lewis smokes weed. big fucking deal.
It's not the criminality, it's the loudmouthed smack talk and showboating, including the coach. Alas, they're more the rule than the exception now.
Oh, and how about Kellen Winslow II as another great role model out of UM?
i hope the ravens kick pitt's ass next year.
Ny'tall.
and, thanks for the excellent company.
I just trolled the troll.
heh
goodnight all
Mmm, Dove bars...
the ravens don't do any more showboating than any other team.
How do you know?
Well...you got me there.
I have no evidence on which to base that opinion. Nothing but parochial bigotry and ignorant rumor, so I'll have to back off making up my mind 'til I do.
Else I'd be a...well...Republican.
in fact they probably do less showboating than most because they rarely score touchdowns.
Gob:
If, as you yourself just said, Bush had dealt with NK when our original objections were made, instead of shooting his wad down his leg in Iraq, then Libya and Ba'al only knows who else wouldn't also have the bomb.
First of all, there is no military solution to the problem of North Korea. Therefore, it would have been stupid of Bush to have invaded that country. That is never going to happen. Kim is going to have to die before that place can recover.
Second, the biggest terrorist threat to us comes from Muslim Arabs. That is part of why we are in Iraq. Iraq wasn't nuclearized, which I think had been known for a very long time. North Korea, on the other hand, is nuclearized, thanks in part to the idiots in the Clinton Administration ---a reality that will continue to grow and sink in as time passes.
You change what you can by military force and accept that there are some things you cannot change by force. Iraq was able to be turned and to give us a place from which we could project even more force against our most immediate enemies: Islamofascists.
Pyongyang is something else altogether. None of you nitwits ever knew what you were talking about with respect to it, but you brought it up anyway because it made you sound like you actually cared to confront tyranny.
Step away for a bit again and DuncAtrios posts something new. And it is insane. Everything has gone insane. I would cringe to look at the Sunday paper tomorrow. However, I do not see the shit there that I get here. So I will read the comics in bliss, laugh at the local letters to the editor and cringe at bringing the system up afterward. When I was 10 no one told my life decisions would be which blog and when to read. No one.
The caoch is the raven's problem. Boller sucks and he's Billik's baby.
Edgerton Hartwell is the best ILB on the market if they don't bring him back they're going to miss out.
Lucky they play in the North, less comp on average there...
the ravens don't do any more showboating than any other team.
Ray Lewis is entirely too manic and full of himself, and Tony Siragusa was a creep. This is really not something you can talk anyone out of...
When I was 10 no one told my life decisions would be which blog and when to read. No one.
EkCenTriK
==
This is true.
coach even
in fact they probably do less showboating than most because they rarely score touchdowns.
Oddly enough, I've never much minded their offensive players. It's always been their defenders who rub me the wrong way.
ray lewis does a creepy dance prior to kickoff and that is pretty much the extent of it.
i'm biased. i watch every game while wearing a ray lewis jersey.
You hate the Brock Berlin! Eeeeeeyugh.
KEII should always be appreciated for his sheer entertainment value. What a dick, but if he gets the chance, he really is the shit. He actually IS that good.
Vilma is fantastic. A bit light, but damn fun to watch.
"You change what you can by military force and accept that there are some things you cannot change by force."
Yeah, basically you are saying if we are too chickenshit to take on someone like North Korea head on, find a little guy and make him the patsy. Oooh the Islamo Fascist is out there in the dark. Lets just shock and awe them and count the innocents later.
Yeah, I can see you stand by our flag proudly you dip. Fricking piece of crap you be.
eli hates the ravens defense for the same reason everyone else does:
hard to score against.
i have to go to bed soon, but i want y'all to know: i'm taking suggestions about the better part. tell me, and we'll make it happen. hee hee, seriously.
Hmm. A match-the-name contest might be interesting. Troll-pinata. Well-stocked bar. Midnight MST3K-style screening of "Mansquito".
Oh and lots of hot Eschababes. Lots and lots.
Gob:
I just trolled the troll.
That's an interesting new usage of "troll." Actual intellectual engagement is something akin to trickery or being quarrelsome. Which means that the usual level of engagement here is more like circle-jerking. No troubling thoughts: we'll just call anyone who questions us a troll.
KEII should always be appreciated for his sheer entertainment value. What a dick, but if he gets the chance, he really is the shit. He actually IS that good.
Oh, he is absolutely spectacular as a player, no question about it. Still waiting to see Shockey (roll eyes) live up to his college success or, y'know, catch the ball...
the ravens offense has never bothered anyone. anyone outside of baltimore anyway.
Toby Petzold
Fine you are not a troll. You are a miserable excuse of human flesh.
EkCEnTrik, over at Wolcott, there seems to be a conclusion that a tipping point of sorts has been reached. And that seems to make about as much sense as anything else. We're in for some crazy times, to put lightly an existential dread.
eli hates the ravens defense for the same reason everyone else does:
hard to score against.
No, I hate them 'cuz they're pricks. I don't hate the Steelers defense, or the Patriots defense, or the '85 Bears defense, or the Bucs defense before they got old, etc., etc.
Mr.Murder,
You might be interested in an article from today on a new DoD policy via Mr. Doglas Feith.
"Pre-emptive" becomes "preventive", is now DoD policy
Pentagon Strategy Aims to Block Internal Threats to Foreign Forces
A new national defense strategy issued by the Pentagon calls for greater U.S. military efforts to keep foreign nations from becoming havens for terrorism or being undermined internally by such additional threats as insurgency, drugs and organized crime.
While U.S. forces have long helped to bolster foreign militaries through a variety of assistance programs, the new emphasis on aiding them against internal threats marks a significant departure from the traditional focus on guarding against potential cross-border aggression.
---
If that doesn't sound exactly like a green light for a New Contra program....
Ek:
Oooh the Islamo Fascist is out there in the dark.
This is why you and the rest of the Kerrion are not to be trusted to keep this country safe. You're like Michael Moore, who is a traitor, saying that it's all manufactured to keep us down and in fear.
Instead, the problem of Islamofascist terrorism is one that our best and bravest are meeting head-on.
I mean, you're not pulling for them, are you?
Anyway, sports just isn't as much fun without villains. I am well stocked in that regard.
Hmm, I see Toby is still about 20 pages behind. Just as well.
Midnight MST3K-style screening of "Mansquito".
I had the exact same idea, actually. I think that would be awesome.
North Korea only has a few weapons as a whole. The neocons want them to be a presence so they can justify their bases in Asia.
Watch when this downsizing occurs on bases what closes there. it will be of concern.
They wish to walk a tightwire, have enough vested there to eventually act, but not ona scale that first strike could not arguably disable them.
They are roughly a hedge on China and Japan. They'll sick us on Korea since they hold our debt. A sick development on every count awaits.
We cannot act until the warranty on Bechtel's nuke equipment runs out. After all Rummy would be liable to service it...
Goodnight all. Happy Vernal Equinox.
Night, mena!
Toby, why are our best and bravest then decided not to re-enlist? 2006 is going to be a fun year.
"sports just isn't as much fun without villains."
true. as a baltimoron i am required by law to hate the indianapolis colts. it is a lot more fun to hate them when they don't suck.
KEII should always be appreciated for his sheer entertainment value. What a dick, but if he gets the chance, he really is the shit. He actually IS that good.
Oh, he is absolutely spectacular as a player, no question about it. Still waiting to see Shockey (roll eyes) live up to his college success or, y'know, catch the ball...
Hee hee. What it is with tight ends, I dunno.
Look, all I will say for my 'Canes, is for the past 2 years it's been impossible to build a national champ teem because of all the talent leaving.
That means I deserve a cookie.
Pyongyang is something else altogether. None of you nitwits ever knew what you were talking about with respect to it, but you brought it up anyway because it made you sound like you actually cared to confront tyranny.
This is hilarious.
"Confronting tyranny."
That's what we liberals do, pal. Ever since Madison, Washington, Franklin, Jefferson et al., liberals have confronted tyranny. We're doing it at home now, and in not too many years we will chase you tories back under the rocks you crawled from before you can re-establish the feudal system we fought a war to break away from a couple hundred years ago.
I would remind you that in the last century you tories didn't think the nazis were that bad and FDR had to drag you kicking and screaming into the great confronting of tyranny that was world war 2. I note that your dear leader's granddaddy was doing lots of the kicking and screaming.
as a baltimoron i am required by law to hate the indianapolis colts.
Can't blame you for that. Damn shame you had to get your team the same way - Modell is another reason I can't stand them, actually.
That means I deserve a cookie.
Where *is* Sallyh?
Shit. Haloscan ate my post. I really haven't had that happen before now on Foxfire. Hmmm.
Anyhoo,
mena, Yep. bigvic is an oinker.
Mr. Murder,
Dear one, I worry about your blood pressure. I agree with your outrage and share your horror over the Bu$hCo insanity. Just don't let it ruin your sanity. We need all the smart folks we can get.
Bigvic is getting.....sleeeeeepy.
yeah, eli. that's why i hated them for the first year just on general principles.
Ever since Madison, Washington, Franklin, Jefferson et al., liberals have confronted tyranny. We're doing it at home now
No, no, when it's at home it's called "patriotism" and "strong leadership."
yeah, eli. that's why i hated them for the first year just on general principles.
Yeah, I kinda suspected as much (and you might have mentioned it during the playoffs). Good on ya.
i guess toby doesn't like football.
Heh. I see Atrios has an ad up for W Ketchup, the Ketchup that doesn't support democrats. Not that I'm complaining, neccessarily. Let them spend ad money for a site that will produce no revenue.
Actual intellectual engagement is something akin to trickery or being quarrelsome. Which means that the usual level of engagement here is more like circle-jerking.
Which is why I'm so glad the Preznit hasn't resorted to surrounding himself with nothing but ass-licking sycophants and yes-men. Or screening out every single opposing view from his "public" events, no matter how mild. Or rehearsing the "spontaneous" questions a these events the night before. Or planting fake reporters to ask fake questions. Or manufacturing fake news. Or bribing reporters to regurgitate the Parti Line.
Yes, a Hero of Robust Public Debate is our Brave Brave Preznit, leaping fearlessly into intellectual breach on SS that opened up between his hired 8-year-old and his own Mommy.
Good thing too, 'cause given his longstanding reputation as a idjit drunk and coward and egomaniacal waterhead, were he to ring himself with nothing but echoing toadies, one might conclude that his bullshit is now so terribly thin and fragile that it would shatter in the face of one honest question.
"I mean, you're not pulling for them, are you?
Toby Petzold" Just fucking stop with your stupid little turns of a phrase and head games. You have come to a point in which all you have are tactics and little turns of a knife.
the second year the ravens were here i accidentally joined the marching band, which at the time was still called the baltimore colts marching band. that was how i got over hating them.
one might conclude that his bullshit is now so terribly thin and fragile that it would shatter in the face of one honest question.
More than one. Many, many more than one.
(referring to the "might conclude" part, of course...)
" accidentally joined the marching band"
Okay, how? I have got to hear this.
" accidentally joined the marching band"
Okay, how? I have got to hear this.
Amen. Did you trip and fall out of the window into them while playing your tuba or something?
Everything has gone insane. I would cringe to look at the Sunday paper tomorrow. However, I do not see the shit there that I get here. So I will read the comics in bliss, laugh at the local letters to the editor and cringe at bringing the system up afterward
Word. Too many in the U.S. Have gone mad. I think our allies are mostly sane but confused by GWB. He's fucked up everything.
yeah, i know, i don't know anything.
completely disgusted with the course of amerika, i was moved to contemplate the recollection of the evil.
so i picked up this photo essay in my library. entitled 100 suns.
if you don't know it, know it.
ekcentrik, i was watching a preseason game and i saw an ad for the baltimore colts marching band. they were looking for members. so i dug around in all the closets until i located my trumpet which i hadn't played in probably 15 years and went and auditioned kind of just for the hell of it. i didn't think i would get in. but i did. it was fun. i only did it for a year though.
that was the last year that the baltimore colts marching band existed. it is now called the baltimore ravens marching band. they took a group picture of us at the end of the season and sent it to the nfl hall of fame. so i am actually in the nfl hall of fame.
Where *is* Sallyh?
Oh, Eli you just want to hear about her pink (hopefully braless) cashmere sweater. Hahaha. True, though.
Peace out dear ones. Nity nite.
Olaf glad and big
Okay, that sounded almost normal. I was expecting something like a wrong turn, a club to the head, a year on a tramp freighter and some sort of indentured servitude to the marching band to get you back home.
i'm sure the picture is not prominently displayed anywhere at the hall of fame. it is probably forgotten in an archive. still counts, though. sort of.
Oh, Eli you just want to hear about her pink (hopefully braless) cashmere sweater. Hahaha. True, though.
Well, I *do* like cookies, but never let it be said that I don't have my braorities in order.
Night, vic!
Is Haloscan screwing up. It is hard to maintain a reasonable level of rage when it is experienced in a stop start fashion.
i'm sure the picture is not prominently displayed anywhere at the hall of fame. it is probably forgotten in an archive. still counts, though. sort of.
That is pretty cool. I'm in a forgotten SNL commercial for about a second or two, and that's pretty much it for my posterity.
at that time, the band probably preferred people who could play pretty well, but i think they were settling for people who owned their own horns.
Unilateral, Preemptive Strikes
Is Haloscan screwing up. It is hard to maintain a reasonable level of rage when it is experienced in a stop start fashion.
I d n' k w what y 're ta king abo t. Ever hin eems per ect y no mal t me.
I know nothing about sports. Heh.
Well it is either dead slow or it is messing up. So I will call it a nite.
Later folks
Lebanon is a staging point, same as it was the 80s. This and Columbia, their "aid" to COlumbia will be countercovert to undermine Venezuela.
Follow the money- Dep't of Energy policy, Venezuelan Oil.
Sanctions starve out the OPEC memberws who do not agree with Saud efforts past peak. Sanction Iran and Syria to control market share and inflate pricing supply-based paradigms.
The aid money of course will go along a vertical transfer line from the State Dep't in accord with World Bank underwriting.
Cheney's daughter oversees it in the MidEast and probably gets technical input for OPEC. So shell be the fulcrum of pushing policy against Venezuela and coordinating it.
Bolton and Negroponte are ready for it.
Imagine that- OPEC meets in Detriot.
Must be something up with the electric auto scrap efforts.
Paging Spencer Abraham...
'nite all.
Night, Ek, drifty, John Boy.
ty vic
Toby is a Nazi . . . as in National Socialist.
Seig heil, Toby.
Only a lot of the first Nazis had more balls and interity than Toby does. At least they fought for what they believed in.
Toby, on the other hand, . . . . .
place your bets on whether Schiavo's tube goes back in.
Is stupid and ugly, and nobody likes him.
Well, this seems to be an opportune time to call it a night.
It's a night, everybody!
Spring ahead!
Toby thinks that calling him a troll is the equivalent of calling a black person a nigger.
No joke.
Poor Toby. Stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
I'm off to bed, after carefully checking under it and the closets for Islamabadafascists.
Right. Because the great offense of it all didn't come when North Korea shipped nuclear materials to Pakistan, but when North Korea was unconscionably blamed by Bu$hitler for supplying Libya. Ha, ha, ha. You fucking people are a joke.
Toby Petzold
Actually you keep showing yourself to be a joke, Toby. Unable to understand the very basics of nuclear proliferation.
First, Pakistan has the bomb and is NOT a signatory to the NPT.
North Korea was a signatory to the NPT, but withdrew (as per the treaty's perogatives).
Libya is not a nuclear power. North Korea may or may not have the bomb.
There is no offense when North Korea sells uranium to Pakistan. NONE! Zilch! That's why the Busheviks knew about this and said nada. No raised eyebrows.
The sale of the nuclear material to a non-nuclear power violates the NPT and is an offense (if you're a signatory). But it wasn't the Norks violating the treaty. In fact NOBODY violated the NPT, since you can't violate a treaty that you never signed.
But the simple fact is that if anyone is the bad guys, it's the military dictatorship in Pakistan (and of course the Busheviks as accomplices).
Guess all that hot air propaganda about "democracy on the march" just flew out the window. Which is just one more reason why American war bloggers are jokes.
Actual intellectual engagement is something akin to trickery or being quarrelsome.
Toby Petzold
When you show some actual intellect, we'll stop calling you a troll.
Now run off to that non-family member you allege to share your home with.
"We know for a fact there are weapons there." - Ari Fleischer, Jan. 9, 2003
Unfortunately, no one is going to give a fuck and no journalists will dig deep enough.
It's just the way of the piss poor, goddamned world at the moment.
The other members of the sexpartite talks know very well what kind of a place North Korea is. The only people who don't are assholes like Clinton, Holbrooke, Albright, and Kerry who think we should be bribing them into compliance.
This country will never survive if its foreign policy comes again under the control of such Democratic shitheadedness.
Toby Petzold
Toby, you are the asshole, because you don't know what kind of place North Korea is. Obviously the only knowledge Toby has of North Korea comes from reading other war bloggers and Bushevik propaganda.
(Propaganda... ya know, deliberately told lies to try and spread disinformation... like selling nuclear material to a country that has sponsored terrorism.)
As for me I've been quite intrigued by Ari's first hand account of his travel to North Korea during his jaunt around Asia.
So let's summarise Democratic foreign policy versus Republican foreign policy in North Korea.
Democrats have the North Koreans lock up all of their nukes and let the IAEA do regular inspections to verify
Republicans have the North Koreans unlock all of their nukes and get the IAEA kicked out to ensure no verification is happening.
I'm not sure which country Toby is talking about that won't survive if the Democrats are left in charge of foreign policy again, but he isn't talking about the US.
Democrats: Peace and Prosperity
Busheviks: War, Death, and Pestilence
BTW- Toby Petzold (i.e. pseudo-intellectual/conservative crackpot) calling Iraq a "islamofacist" state that had to be invaded ASAP to save us from "the terrorists" is Looney Toons.
morning free, clear, sane thinkers.
(this excludes the trolls)
spring arrives at 7:23 am EST IIRC.
the vernal equinox.
maybe with it, will come hope.
Morning all. From the thread below, w's ratings are down to 45%. It occurred to me that people started paying a bit of attention to politics back in October, but of course, were only exposed to campaign rhetroic and distortion. Remember, NY Times not running the story about w being wired for the debate. Despite this, Kerry won.
Having become somewhat engaged, people have continued to look at politics and don't like what they see. I look for w's ratings to continue to tank because he is a stubborn asshole and won't let go of destroying SS. I also look for repukes to start deserting the sinking ship that is this maladministration. We just need to keep people engaged til the midterms.
On a less optimistic note: they can't lose. They know that if they do, all their crimes will be exposed and jail is not out of the question. Hence, they will fight Hillary's bill for paper trails in all federal elections tooth and nail. That's where the real fight will be.
noodge nails it. They're fucking Tories.
And nobody likes them.
House bill to count every vote and and the Senate bill
Hope linkies work so early in the morn.
BBC broadcast 'fake' news reports
David Miller, 15 March 2005
A Spinwatch investigation has revealed that journalists working for the Services Sound and Vision Corporation (SSVC) have been commissioned to provide news reports to the BBC. The BBC has been using these reports as if they were genuine news. In fact, the SSVC is entirely funded by the Ministry of Defence as a propaganda operation, which according to its own website makes a 'considerable contribution' to the 'morale' of the armed forces.
In the US, Washington has been rocked by the scandal of fake journalists. The Bush administration has been paying actors to produce news, paying journalists to write propaganda, and paying Republican party members to pose as journalists. In the UK this has been reported with our customary shake of the head at the bizarre nature of US politics and media. Implicitly we are relieved that, however bad things are here, at least we are not as bad as they are.
But Spinwatch can reveal that we have our very own fake journalists operating in the UK. The government pays for their wages and they provide news as if they were normal journalists rather than paid propagandists. Normally they work in a little known outfit with the acronym BFBS, which stands for British Forces Broadcasting Service. BFBS exists to ‘entertain and inform’ British armed forces around the world and is entirely funded by the British Ministry of Defence. BFBS is run by the SSVC. But on this occasion no mention of Ministry of defence funding was made. She was introduced simply as a reporter 'from the British Forces Broadcasting Service' who 'has been embedded with the Scots Guards'. As one wag inside the BBC puts it, this suggests a process of 'double embedding', first working for the MoD and second embedding with a regiment. The report began:
'Route 6 is the main road North out of Basra. It runs through the badlands of Iraq’s marsh Arabs They make a living from crime - carjackings, smuggling and murder are common place. It’s also the scene of an age old feud between two warring tribes.' (25 November 2004)
Naturally enough, we are told that the regiment in which the reporter is 'embedded' has resolved these tribal problems by negotiating 'a ceasefire' following which ' the two tribes had had their first nights sleep in several months'.
http://spinwatch.server101.com/m...howpage&
pid=342
It will be interesting to see if the press and the people in Britan will react differently to revelations of their governement propagandizing them through the "news".
As a frequent listener to BBC's News Update (only thing on at 5AM) I've often had occasion to wonder if it was carrying water for the Bush administration. Unlike sevral of their other programs. It seems as if it's geared to what they imagine an American audience to be.
And here is Frank Rich's companion piece.
Enron: Patron Saint of Bush's Fake News
Published: March 20, 2005
JUST when Americans are being told it's safe to hand over their savings to Wall Street again, he's baaaack! Looking not unlike Chucky, the demented doll of perennial B-horror-movie renown, Ken Lay has crawled out of Houston's shadows for a media curtain call.
His trial is still months away, but there he was last Sunday on "60 Minutes," saying he knew nothin' 'bout nothin' that went down at Enron. This week he is heading toward the best-seller list, as an involuntary star of "Conspiracy of Fools," the New York Times reporter Kurt Eichenwald's epic account of the multibillion-dollar Ponzi scheme anointed America's "most innovative company" (six years in a row by Fortune magazine). Coming soon, the feature film: Alex Gibney's "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room," a documentary seen at Sundance, goes into national release next month. As long as you're not among those whose 401(k)'s and pensions were wiped out, it's morbidly entertaining. In one surreal high point, Mr. Lay likens investigations of Enron to terrorist attacks on America. For farce, there's the sight of a beaming Alan Greenspan as he accepts the "Enron Award for Distinguished Public Service" only days after Enron has confessed to filing five years of bogus financial reports. Then again, given the implicit quid pro quo in this smarmy tableau, maybe that's the Enron drama's answer to a sex scene.
http://nytimes.com/2005/03/20/ar...Rich.html?
8hpib
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice suggested Sunday that European governments are irresponsible if they sell sophisticated weaponry to China that might one day be used against U.S. forces in the Pacific."
But it's OK for us to sell them the tools to make more nukes.
London Sunday Times
MI6 chief told PM: Americans ‘fixed’ case for war
THE HEAD of MI6 told Tony Blair that the case for war against Iraq was being “fixed” by the Americans to suit the policy, according to a BBC documentary that will reignite its battle with the government.
Blair followed the US lead by failing to reveal publicly doubts about the quality of intelligence that he had requested to support the case for war, the programme claims.
Sir Richard Dearlove, head of MI6, briefed Blair and a select group of ministers on America’s determination to press ahead with the war nine months before hostilities began.
After attending a briefing in Washington, he told the meeting that war was “inevitable”. Dearlove said “the facts and intelligence” were being “fixed round the policy” by George W Bush’s administration.
The allegations against Blair just weeks before a general election are likely to reopen the feud between the government and the BBC that came to a head over the death of Dr David Kelly, the former weapons inspector. It led to the resignations of Gavyn Davies, its chairman, and Greg Dyke, its director-general.
The documentary — to be shown on BBC1’s Panorama tonight — reveals that Britain and America were anxious to present a united front on Iraq despite a paucity of new data on Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction (WMD).
It quotes from a leaked memo on the presentation of intelligence sent by Peter Ricketts, political director of the Foreign Office, to Jack Straw, foreign secretary, in March 2002.
The memo says: “There is more work to ensure that the figures are accurate and consistent with the US. But even the best survey of Iraq’s WMD programmes will not show much advance in recent years.”
The programme argues that Blair had signed up to follow Bush’s plans for regime change in Iraq as early as April 2002. It quotes Robin Cook, the former foreign secretary who resigned as leader of the Commons over Iraq, arguing that the threat of WMD was not Blair’s true reason for going to war.
Cook says: “What was propelling the prime minister was a determination that he would be the closest ally to George Bush and they would prove to the United States administration that Britain was their closest ally. His problem is that George Bush’s motivation was regime change. It was not disarmament. Tony Blair knew perfectly well what he was doing.
“His problem was that he could not be honest about that with either the British people or Labour MPs, hence the stress on disarmament.”
The intelligence services had little evidence to show that Iraq was a serious threat. At the meeting with Dearlove in July, Straw was still not entirely convinced. But, the programme claims, Blair had to keep talking up the threat posed by Iraq to justify his policy of supporting Bush. MI6 was then tasked to seek new information from its limited Iraqi network to make the case for war.
Full report at
Sunday Times
Good Morning and Happy Spring.
Quilts, thanks for the links to the two bills on paper trails.
Here's what I don't get: ATMs are able to print receipts which include account balances even when the user has an account at a different bank.
If they have that kind of technology for ATMs, why can't Diebold et al come up with something similar for voting machines? Well, I mean, besides the obvious answer.
"unless they sell through United States intermediaries who can make sure the weapons don't work"
Why is Condi so worried. We sell billions of dollars of stuff that does not work to the Chinese and they send us back quality goods for Walmart.
And besides, she only suggested.
in a relatively healthy society, the public would have been calling for Bush's head after the revelations about his and his Administration's derelictions of duty that led to the catastrophe of 9-11 started to come to light.
Look around you.
We have been, since 9-11.
But if a tree falls in the forest and the MSM won't report it, does it make a sound?
Diane, Particularly since the ATM machine at my local bank is a Diebold. Ask for a receipt, get a receipt.
It's the same old game - world domination.
The documentary — to be shown on BBC1’s Panorama tonight — reveals that Britain and America were anxious to present a united front on Iraq despite a paucity of new data on Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction (WMD).
ecoast,
I'd love to see that show, wouldn't you? Thanks for all the great posts and links, btw.
All electronic voting machines are owned by two companies. these two companies are owned by two brothers, who just so happen to be staunch republicans. I have been late to this issue, assuming that the election should never have been so close to have been stolen in the first place. I'm not so sure now. I think this is a winning issue for us, and that we should start making a lot of noise. We don't even have to accuse anyone of stealing the election. We just have to ask why repukes are against counting votes.
since there's no wolf on Earth that can eat the Boy without dying, too, it doesn't really matter how often he has to cry out to get his way.
Tell that to Saudi Arabia and the Carlyle Group.
Oh, and by the way, do a head count on the Chinese.
Figure a thermonuclear war would kill 90% of both US and them before both sides decided to shift to conventional weapons.
Count the survivors.
They have 350 million of them. Mostly male. Quite capable of invading and holding territory- like what remains of your charred and burned ass.
Idiot.
I see that both of the bills are in Committee. I wonder if, in this Congress, they will get out of committee and to the floors for votes.
This time we should start applying the pressure now, rather than having to play catch-up the way we did on the Bankruptcy bill.
It may be even worse than we thought.
If they have that kind of technology for ATMs, why can't Diebold et al come up with something similar for voting machines? Well, I mean, besides the obvious answer.
Rhetorical questions remain valid, simply because sooner or later the Chimperor's supporters will accidently add 1 + 1 to get a real integral solution.
Hey! Spring is sprung.
And, BTW - fuck all the rest of this inconsequential horseshit.
I wish our Congress-people would come up with some useful legislation for a change, like perhaps, a Barbecue Bill. I could really go for some this morning for some strange reason.
We have already invaded Amerika and we will win.
Our Chinese Buffets, subsidized by Peking, deliver a form of chemical warfare that bloated Amerikans can not resist. MSG = Cancer
We make cheap plastic shit for the Walmarts of your country. Even your turkey smokers are made in China.
We even make the Condi Rice doll, so popular on your liberal websites.
We don't need conventional weapons to destroy you.
The seeds of self-destruction are already planted and your evil empire will implode.
1 (one) 22" Weber kettle grill, 1 (one) bag of Kingsford charcoal, wood chips and a suitable ignition device.
Suitable product for barbecue. Commercially produced BBQ sauce of your choosing, or manufacture your own.
There. Fuck using congress. Them stupid asswipes couldn't do that in less than 3500 pages and 3 fucking years.
You can buy your kettle grill, your charcoal and the barbecue sauce for half price at Walmart.
With savings like this, you can buy twice the steak at our super center.
BTW, we have been secretly buying Walmart stock for years.
You only think it's Amerikan.
We (China) now own controlling interest in many of your major corporations.
You deserve a break today.
Yankee Imperialist - Hah
I'd love to see that show, wouldn't you? Thanks for all the great posts and links, btw.
portia
portia,
have you seen the documentary "The Power of Nightmares" shown on BBC.
Documents the long history of lies and fear mongering by the Busheviks... dating back to the Reagan era for nuts like Ledeen and back to Nixon/Ford era for guys like Cheney/Rumsfailed.
have you seen the documentary "The Power of Nightmares" shown on BBC.
I've seen it and it's pretty good, although there are some problems with it.
But one question they raised intrigues me and I've never been able to get more information about it or start a discussion about it.
Supposedly, in the late 1980s, Gorbachev came to Bush I and pretty much said "we have to pull out of Afghanistan. But unless you help us stablize it, an Islamist government will take over and it will be disasterous". And he was rebuffed.
Does anybody have more information on this?
have you seen the documentary "The Power of Nightmares" shown on BBC
Tom,
No, I haven't seen it. It sounds great - is it available anywhere?
"is it that before we've had incompetent government and now we have incompetent government alloyed with a truly fearful competence in evil?"
I believe that we have a truly incompetent voting public who has produced a ruling class which is a fearful competence in evil.
Toby is stupid and ugly and nobody likes him.
Thersites
Is this what David Horowitz does in his spare time?
Good morning everyone.
See Toby's been an ass once more. Surprise, surprise.
World's still fucked up. Sometimes you'd wish you'd never wake up.
okra nails it.
BTW, how did you get out of that batch of gumbo I made a week ago?
Sneaky bastard.
If they have that kind of technology for ATMs, why can't Diebold et al come up with something similar for voting machines?
As I understand it, it's not difficult to come up with a machine like an ATM that can remember information. It would be a simple thing to come up with a voting machine that would remember all the voters with their names and addresses and whom each voted for. Simple, but rather scary, and detrimental to the secret ballot.
The trick is coming up with a machine that will forget certain information and yet have a paper trail.
If any you all want to never sleep again, read Incog's link above.
It seems every morning starts with me saying, we are truly fucked.
1 (one) 22" Weber kettle grill, 1 (one) bag of Kingsford charcoal, wood chips and a suitable ignition device.
Suitable product for barbecue. Commercially produced BBQ sauce of your choosing, or manufacture your own.
There. Fuck using congress. Them stupid asswipes couldn't do that in less than 3500 pages and 3 fucking years.
This is one bill I'll get behind. And you're giving Congress too much credit, Barndog. This would likely never make it out of committee.
I guess if y'all want to keep buying the fear campaign, then by all means go right ahead.
Those who can't think for themselves, usually fall prey to mind control tactics.
SWR - So what problems did you have with The Power of Nightmares?
and portia - go check the right hand column at vaara's silt3. Has all 3 parts as well as transcripts.
My follow-on is about the infiltration of the Algerian militants to cause more terrorism as a method of breaking public support for them. What role did the US have in this and has this policy been pursued by the US or proxies since then?
Barndog, it's not buying into a fear campaign we're "buying into." I want to know worst case scenarios of what we know is happening. Besides, how does our concern over this help the Powers that Be?
Condi is selling fear. You better fear her. She has nuclear bombs. She also allowed bin Laden to attack America and then covered up the fact that she knew he was going to attack.
Morning Moonbats, (Perhaps I can find some more outrage, my supply was exhausted yesterday)
If there isn't a simple paper ballot which is marked by the voter I don't trust that the election is honest beyond doubt. There is absolutely no excuse for not having one form of ballot for the President, Vice President, Senate and Congress. These are the offices that have an effect on the entire country (and world) so everyone in every state has a right to know that these offices are filled honestly. There should be one form for the entire country, on paper and marked and countable by hand.
If anyone wants to see how an honest election system works read about Elections Canada:
http://www.elections.ca/home.asp...?
textonly=false
But wait Sportsfans, there's more!
http://tinyurl.com/549h4
This lands right on Hillary desk. Expect that to come out during her National Campaign to replace Slick as the Most Corrupt President in History!
So, Boy George only has a 45% approval rating. Are you thinking what I am? 45% of Americans are either unbelievably stupid or unconsciounably evil. Damn.
When will our news media wake up? (oh, nevermind.)
PS - Lying under oath, AKA Perjury - A Felony.
Why is it that Libs always leave that part out?
.. but doesn't Condi look smashing in her jack-boots?!?
Please try to stay focused on the media important points for the day.
Tom - Daai Tou Laam,
Thanks for the link - I look forward to watching it later.
I looked it up on imdb.com and found the following quote under viewer comments:
"1 out of 28 people found the following comment useful:-
Britain's Answer To Michael Moore's Conspiracy Fantasies, 3 November 2004"
I love MM!
Hey Marcie (Ô¿Ô),
Any luck on the marriage thing yet?
The trick is coming up with a machine that will forget certain information and yet have a paper trail.
Wile E. Odysseus
But surely that can be done, can't it? I mean, designing software that has the voter list, remembers that a particular voter voted, and then keeps a blind tally of the votes?
And before you ask, no, I am not a software engineer.
Slick as the Most Corrupt President in History!
Funny, I don't remember anyone ever calling Ronald Reagan "Slick". Ronnie had what was objectively the most corrupt administration to date by memebers convicted. But the crimes of the Bush junta will easily out do him.
I'll be right back. I have to strangle String running up my expensive cloth curtains right now.
So, Boy George only has a 45% approval rating. Are you thinking what I am? 45% of Americans are either unbelievably stupid or unconsciounably evil. Damn.
I'd say part of that group is stupid, and part evil, with a smaller group that's both.
I see Condi's looking spectacular in yellow. And still talking shit.
I just made a connection David Horowitz superannuated "student leader", the obvious fact that our trolls are largly pizza and mountain dew swilling College Republicans. A coincidence? I don't think so.
I wonder if Condomnsleezy wearing those jackboots was meant to send a message like Chimpy sitting in the photo-op in Stalin's position in that famous Yalta photo?
I wonder if Condi is from anothe planet. That hair! It reminds me of the plastic play wigs they used to sell in the Sears Christmas catalogue in the early 60s. Literally helmet hair. I think she tests it in a wind tunnel.
Yeah, I would say that by this point, 45% is the threshold of knuckle-dragging drooling stupidity in this country now.
Funny, I don't remember anyone ever calling Ronald Reagan "Slick".
EPTropy
Actually it was "teflon". Though it really was a culture of "plausible deniability" that allowed all those people around him to be convicted, but leaving the Mob boss untouched.
WIth the Busheviks, they've tried to eliminate Congressional and Judicial oversite, so they can try to skip the jail time that is due each and every one of them.
Actually it was "teflon".
Very good. Wish I'd thought of it.
Got to bring my mother to mass. See you later.
I wonder if Condi is from anothe planet. That hair! It reminds me of the plastic play wigs they used to sell in the Sears Christmas catalogue in the early 60s. Literally helmet hair. I think she tests it in a wind tunnel.
A while back I'd see a photoshop job someone had done on an old movie poster for "Devil Girl from Mars" (or some such flick). They put Condi's head on the said Devil Girl--who was dressed all in leather, it should be said--and it was a perfect match. Now I can't get that image out of my head. Don't know if that's bad or good.
I see Condi's looking spectacular in yellow. And still talking shit.
Big Daddy Mars
You saw that outfit in Beijing? Ick! Little miss bumblebee... At least she met with Premier Wen this time around. Didn't even meet with him when she dropped through last summer. Incompetent Miss Rice.
LIIIIIIIAAAAAAAARRRS Remember folks, it's not the sex it's the lying...
9/11 Changed Everything©
Read the end of this report on Condi's time in South Korea *lmao*
"""In contrast to the closed society of North Korea, Rice said, "you can come here and think what you want and ask me anything _ the United States secretary of state _ and what a wonderful thing that is.""""
""""Miss Rice, the North Korean people are dying and they are crying for your help," yelled the activist, German physician and former aid worker Norbert Vollertsen. He held up a poster that read "Freedom for North Korea: 50 Years Overdue," until a State Department employee ripped the poster in half.
As Rice took her seat for the news conference, security officers literally muffled Vollertsen while wrestling him to the carpeted floor. He had talked his way into the event before Rice arrived, but a U.S. Embassy public affairs officer recognized him at the last moment and demanded he be removed."""
Heh heh... ask anything, but anything you do say may be used against you in a court of law... unless we decide that you'll never see a court of law or the outside world again. Heh heh.
I would say the marriage thing is going pretty well in California, Mass, Canada, Spain etc. How's your Iraq war going? You signed up yet? You still can now if you're under 40. I already did the Iraq war thing the first time around although those like you don't want me to be able to marry.
see Condi's looking spectacular in yellow. And still talking shit.
Big Daddy Mars
You saw that outfit in Beijing? Ick! Little miss bumblebee... At least she met with Premier Wen this time around. Didn't even meet with him when she dropped through last summer. Incompetent Miss Rice.
Tom - Daai Tou Laam | Email | Homepage | 03.20.05 - 9:00 am | #
She met with Wen and yapped at him and snapped orders at him and I bet he smiled all the way through her diatribe.
We are so fucking fucked. The Chinese never say in your face what they plan to do to you. Despite all the movies where the bad guy does this.
So, it's come to this: Reality as a Seinfeld episode.
"North Korea sold nuclear material ... yadda yadda yadda ... to Libya."
Look! Smug, lazy media! A flabby pop culture reference! It's your lede! It's easier than a pun!
This is a Steinfucked episode.
Irony
Has anyone been trying to deal with this evil stepsister of sentient thought like me? In Iraq, we are demanding that the new government have two thirds majority in order to form a government: while in the United States the Repukes are telling the Democrats to go and Cheney themselves because they received 51% of the popular vote. (A "fact" I simply refuse to believe, btw)
If we had "our" plan that we are trying to impose on Iraq, we would not have to put up with the certifiable craziness that is passing for American Government at this juncture. The Repukes would have to find a block of 11 or more senators to endorse their insanity. In the house they would have to find a substantial portion of Democrats in order to govern. What price could we extract for our participation?
I guess it is do as we say, not as we do again. Damn!
Does Free Speech even matter anymore when one side willfully ignores undeniable facts in a debate while many others don't want to be bothered?
Rumsfeld lied to George S. about this matter this morning.
Response to Elaine's post:
You are so right!
"China's economic threat to the US: At $150 billion dollars, China holds the most substantial portion of the US trade deficit. China also holds $190 billion in US treasury bonds and notes, or fully 10% of our treasury debt. Finally, China's central bank holds $449 billion in US dollar reserves. As noted back in 2002, the Chinese Yuan is still backed by gold, and so would stand to gain from the rising price of gold and devaluation of the US dollar.
To bring this home I offer two poignant quotes from a treatise written in 1999 by People's Liberation Army Colonels, Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui on how to win a war against the US: "Financial war is a form of nonmilitary warfare which is just as terribly destructive as a bloody war, but in which no blood is actually shed…" And the aggressor nation… "must adjust its own financial strategy, use currency revaluation or devaluation as primary weapons… to make financial turbulence and economic crisis appear in the targeted country or area, weakening its overall power, including its military strength."
Just saying
And DWD, there are a lot of other anomolies that would occur if the US was voting for a list and then used proportional representation...
and Elaine, the evening news here didn't make it seem like Condi was completely out of her mind in Beijing. I think less so in China than elsewhere, since the US can't get North Korea back to the bargaining table without the Chinese. So she bitched about the Chinese while in Japan and South Korea pretending that the Chinese might not notice when she showed up with her cap in hand begging for favours.
Speaking of never-ending lies:
President Bush frequently says he wants to solve big problems like Social Security's finances, not pass them on to future generations. It appears unavoidable, however, that Bush will leave a painful legacy of staggering government debt.
What was once expected to be a $5.6 trillion surplus over 10 years is now projected to be at least a $4 trillion deficit by 2015, if Bush's tax cuts are made permanent and his Social Security suggestions adopted.
Analysts suggest one-party dominance of the government is working against serious efforts to address the red ink, providing little incentive for bipartisan compromises on difficult choices to narrow the deficit.
``Everybody recognizes that deficits are unsustainable. And I don't think anybody takes the current deficit-reduction effort serious,'' said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a bipartisan group that advocates eliminating federal deficits.
Bixby said it might take some major outside force -- a financial market collapse, foreign investors deciding to flee U.S. government securities -- to force action.
At least the sun is shining here this morning.
That's the only good news I have.
Speaking if liars, check this interview out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/
2...0QUESTIONS.html
Facts: China holds about half a TRILLION of American debt. This is a heap of money.
Fact: the deficit in our budget the last four years was nearly TWO TRILLION.
If the GOP runs a two trillion red ink debt every four years, this mean in 2009 we will be 12 trillion in debt.
Ronnie Reagan ran up our debts to 1.5 trillion. He is the creep who ran against Carter complaining about the red ink which was an overwhelming 725 billion at the time!
God, are we fucked good.
Tom and Elaine,
It almost looks like (on the one hand), this Administration is setting up the Japanese to be the water carriers in SE Asia for American policy, and (on the other hand)trying to set up China to complete the isolation of North Korea.
What happens if SEATO suddenly re-emerges, invites both China and North Korea in, and suddenly a second counter-weight to US Hegemony (the EU being the first)?
Is this possible?
The only thing that can replace Free Speech in that situation is forcing your will on the other side which has always been a feature of human history except the last few hundred years blip in the West.
I predict the Schiavo farce will end in them ignoring the court's ruling. Which will lead to ignoring other court ruling's that side doesn't agree with while fiercly enforcing court ruling's we may not agree with but they do.
She met with Wen and yapped at him and snapped orders at him and I bet he smiled all the way through her diatribe.
We are so fucking fucked. The Chinese never say in your face what they plan to do to you. Despite all the movies where the bad guy does this.
The Chinese only have a few thousand years of experience backing them up when it comes to never giving a sucker an even break. Wen was probably thinking, "Who does this dumb-ass gwei-po think she is? Man, are we gonna show her and her idiot boss."
Omigod, I agree with George Will on ABC right now about the Terri Shiavo case and the filabuster issue.
Cute and sad parrot story:
The Roman Catholic Church and activists have joined forces in an initiative for Palm Sunday celebrations - to save a unique species of parrot in Colombia.
Only some 540 yellow-eared parrots are thought to survive, living in wax palms on the slopes of the Andes.
For decades fronds from the trees have been cut for Palm Sunday services, which mark Jesus' entry into Jerusalem before his betrayal and crucifixion.
Now the church is urging worshippers to use the leaves of another species.
It is handing out thousands of seedlings to promote the cultivation of other palms.
A top Colombian cleric backed the moves.
"We have a slogan: God pardons always, man pardons sometimes, but nature never does," Monsignor Fabian Marulanda told the Associated Press.
"Every abuse of nature you pay for, sooner or later," he added.
But it is not clear how many Colombians will stop using wax palm fronds.
"We cannot expect that such a strongly-held tradition will change overnight," campaign organiser Luz Mery Cortes said.
"But if we don't do something, the wax palm and the yellow-eared parrot will disappear from the planet."
I wish the Christians in America were sensitive about nature.
Spinoza
details...
Rice is incompetent. You think we're going to survive 4 more years of this crap from these nitwits?
Normally, the Chinese call us "white ghosts" but I guess they call Condi "black (fill in the blank)"
The Chinese invented the concept of the yin/yang. The Bush junta thinks if they blow hot and cold all the time this will confuse the Chinese.
It does not confuse them at all. They have their eye on the ball. One ball---our nuclear war shield and how fast Bush is building bomb shelters and how effective are the Russian nukes and how soon will America under Bush do a sneak attack with the Japanese who are known for sneak attacks...
the other ball is the money in the bank. The closer it gets to a trillion, the more the government in China itches to dump this on world markets and bankrupt America.
Well I do not know about uranium hexafluoride up my ass, but god knows there is enough santorum lying around here to satisfy all the anal fantasies of all the catamites page boys in the senate.
What happens if SEATO suddenly re-emerges, invites both China and North Korea in, and suddenly a second counter-weight to US Hegemony (the EU being the first)?
Is this possible?
Diane
SEATO is dead. Has been dead for a long time. It was superseded by ASEAN. ASEAN has not invited China to join, but it was an observer at the last ASEAN conference.
As a whole ASEAN was running a positive trade balance with China (as opposed to the US' trade deficit with China) and trade continues to grow.
And Big Daddy, I doubt Wen was thinking anything like that. She'll probably be meeting with others who will think this, though probably not Wen. He's the "squeaky clean" "face man"/"good cop" for the CCP.
China and India have been quietly dumping dollars for oil and gold since Nov '04. From Pravda: Russian has ousted the dollar from national policy. Even the drug dealers are switching to euros! If we lose the arms dealers we're f*#cked!
Just sayin'
b0313-Georgie Will basically said that congress was doing something unconstitutional in the Siavo issue (see Marbury vs. Madison). He also said that eliminating the filabuster would harm the way the senate worked.
By the way, China isn't pure unadulterated "evil" for its actions. From what I understand, it's in their national interests to do what they're doing. This country has always done the same thing.
Elaine. You know, I essentially agree with your "take" on things. The problem I have is a simple one: why does anyone think our current policies are the correct ones.
You say that our debt is screwing for generations: I agree, but why isn't this being reported? It just does not make sense. I don't care what kind of a self-serving asshole you are, you can still love America.
Please, why would anyone want to follow these crazy policies that these cretinous creeps come up with?
And Big Daddy, I doubt Wen was thinking anything like that. She'll probably be meeting with others who will think this, though probably not Wen. He's the "squeaky clean" "face man"/"good cop" for the CCP.
Ah, didn't know that bit of information. Let's hope he liked her outfit.
Tom, last month China took over ASEAN. It was all over the Asian news. It was rather funny. They forbade the ASEAN nations from talking about what China told them but then Japan blurted out that it involved dumping American debt if America disobeys China.
So Bush sent envoys to Japan to make a deal for a co prosperity sphere that is Japan/American and will be hostile to China!
This is WWIII!!!!! Japan started WWII by attacking China. Many Chinese are alive today who remember WWII very vividly. And many Japanese remember, too and are hysterical their leader is driving them into WWIII.
Gimme an N. Gimme an E. Gimme a W. Gimme a T. Gimme a H. Gimme a R. Gimme an E. Gimme an A. Gimme a D.
What's that spell? What's that spell?
Yay.
As a protest to Republican lies and subterfuge, I will not be sending Easter lillies to Ken Mehlman. In fact, I may crush the order with my bare hands---and the chocolates, too.
DWD, greed is short sighted. Our rulers are greedy humans who think the consequences of their choices won't really hurt that much because the slot machine will always be three cherries.
Evil is when people yield to greed rather than being careful.
Thanks spinoza
as my daddy would say - even a blind pig finds the acrons once in a while...
Georgie WIll said that congress was doing something unconstitutional in the Siavo issue (Marbury v. Madison).
Marbury v. Madison?
That's sooooooo September 10th.
You say that our debt is screwing for generations: I agree, but why isn't this being reported? It just does not make sense. I don't care what kind of a self-serving asshole you are, you can still love America.
Most people don't believe and have never even ever considered that America isn't indestructible. They think it will continue rolling along the way they've always known, apace.
The acorns..
Elaine - ya lost me there. Really.
China did not take over ASEAN. Really.
I know there are Chinese who remember WWII very vividly. I get lectured once in a while at family dinners about eating every grain of rice because of the deprivations during that time.
And if you wanted the hot spot for discontent with the Japanese right now, try South Korea for the last week.
and Big Daddy, did ya know that gweilo is in the latest Oxford English Dictionary?
My grammar sucks this morning.
SEATO is dead. Has been dead for a long time. It was superseded by ASEAN.
Sheesh! I knew that but forgot. More coffee, please, and this time put some caffeine in it.
I am amazed at the trade balance those countries have with China. It sounds like they're doing something right.
and Big Daddy, did ya know that gweilo is in the latest Oxford English Dictionary?
No, I hadn't seen that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Only got called a gweilo once, by an old begger in the old part of Shekou. Acutally made me laugh.
Most people don't believe and have never even ever considered that America isn't indestructible. They think it will continue rolling along the way they've always known, apace.
Ô¿Ô
Most people don't believe or understand that America is destructible....
So Bush sent envoys to Japan to make a deal for a co prosperity sphere that is Japan/American and will be hostile to China!
===============================
Remember middle school social studies. All the secret alliances that led to WWI. Well, we are faced with the same thing now.
What I don't get is why we are trying to accelerate the coming war? Cheney doesn't believe in the end times crap. Is he so deluded that he thinks he can control it all? Is that what we are dealing with? A meglomaniac?
Hey, Yak, you magnificent bastard, it's lilies, one L in the middle.
Quiltsuito:
Think Peak Oil, Fiat money, and petrodollars....
Just sayin'
Wing nuts have no comprehension that their continued hammering away at the institutional foundations of this country can lead to something very different than even they would want as a result because they're mostly dumb and have been propagandized to the point of derangement. Wing nut radio host don't understand that, either. They believe America is akin to a law of physics; something immutable in the Milky Way.
I still say Jeff Gannon's tied up in this somehow.
Well, OK, but that'll cost you another $200.
Why blame China?
What would you do if you were holding the bag for a few billion (heh) in loans that everyone knows the borrower can't, and has no intention, of ever paying back?
America has become a bankrupt deadbeat.
Once again, the rest of the world cannot fucking believe what you people are doing.
He's your president...time to get off your asses and do something about it.
Elaine Supkis - And many Japanese remember, too and are hysterical their leader is driving them into WWIII.
I heard some interesting things about Japan the other day on BBCs The World. Japan is getting nationalistic again. They have resurrected the old rising sun flag, which hasn't been used since WWII. There's a strong anti-immigration movement there that has racial overtones, according to the report.
Everything is in place for another world wide convulsion.
Tena, read this and you'll hear about the latest pot stirring in Asia caused by the neo-imperialists in Japan being backed by the Busehviks.
Am I stilled banned?
I guess not, for now.
Tom - Daai Tou Laam - your link took me to a page with two Japanese ads on it, and nothing else, I'm afraid.
whoops. sorry about that tena. Take two on dokdo
Oh... this link works... and the ads are Korean not Japanese... just to be pedantic.
Tom - Daai Tou Laam - sorry about that. I usually catch the difference in the language but I wasn't looking that closely. Thanks for pointing that out.
And thanks for the link - that's very interesting and very disturbing.
Toby Petzhold is a piece of shit.
Any questions?
What the hell is this - a chatroom?
since Ben Ladin (or is it Bin Laden? Whatever) is in Pakistan, and that was the same reason we can't get to him, I'm not surprise about this lie.
However, I'm not saying what the US govt did was wrong. I wouldn't mess with Pakistan, especially at a time like this. That country oversea policy is cuba's on coccaine.
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