HULK SMASH!!!
FUCK HIM AND BUSH
Liars? Frist 'em
I just read that article and believe that the end times are near if the other media outlets do not pick up on this story and the one from the Miami Herald. DAMN THE SO CALLED LIBERAL MEDIA!
Why isn't anyone trying to feed me?
DNR Delay.
well, well, well. I'm shocked. So shocked if I knew how to do italics, I would.
If this past week and a half could bring down DeLay, things would start looking a lot more hopeful.
If only DeLay had an honest job, like being a drilling contractor.
Oh, wait, I guess he IS trying to drill us all....
Thanks for the link, Atrios. It puts everything in context, don't it?
I wish I thought this would do it. The cynicism is reaching alarming levels.
Too bad Tommy didn't go for a tram ride that day.
I'd say "Unbelievable!", but the Unveiling Of These Truths doesn't surprise me in the least anymore.
I've come to expect it.
OT sort of. I went to a wedding this evening and spent some time with my friend's son who just returned from Iraq. We were talking about the lack of power, phone service, the lack of fuel for the Iraqis, the daily bombings and all of the stuff that the reality based community is aware of: the other people standing there had their mouths drop down to the knees. They knew NOTHING of what is actually going on there. He told me that they were losing power more than ten times a day and each time the generators kicked on and burned up the computers and such because of power surges. It was his job to repair or replace them. Damn the So Called Unbiased Media (SCUM)
I will not sully the new TV with images of rightie whities.
But what about the schools, DWD. Damn you, the schools! The schools! The schools!
I wish I thought this would do it. The cynicism is reaching alarming levels.
mena
Mine, too, Mena. This crap just keeps piling up and still we see they're all still charging forward with whatever is the agenda of the week.
And despite articles like this, I don't expect anything will happen to get the bugman out of our faces.
You would think a situation like what he went through with his father would have created some empathy in him for what is going on with the Schiavo case.
But I am convinced to be a hard core radical republican require a lack of the empathy gene. Oh, and unmitigated greed.
Seems Delay has both in spades.
He had no consciousness that I could see," Braddick said. "He did a bit of moaning and groaning, I guess, but you could see there was no way he was coming back."
hmmmm. That sounds somehow familiar . . .
How much do you want to bet that President Bush will respond within hours, if not minutes, to the Schindlers in the tragic Terri Schiavo case upon receiving word that Mrs. Schiavo has passed?
He won't wait for days and days as he did after the tsunami and the Minnesota tragedies to say something "from his heart". And I doubt if he'll express his condolences directly to Michael Schiavo.
Karl Rove's policy is always play to your base and tsunami and American-Indian victims are not President Bush's base, while Christian religious fanatics are. So, wanna bet on Bush's ?heart-felt? response in the next several days?
Maybe someone should start an on-line contest where people can guess how many minutes/hours it will take for Bush to speak up after Mrs. Schiavo's passing. Maybe he'll even hold a press conference.
My entry: four hours and fifteen minutes.
Puts me in the mind of the repetition compulsion, by which the psychoanalytically inclined try to explain why some people seem unconsciously to recreate traumatic situations and relationships over and again. There is a driving desire to get it to turn out the right way this time, but it never really does and they move on to try again somewhere else. More recently such behavior has been traced to the overfunctioning of the amygdala.
OTOH, DeLay could just be a hypocritical jerkass fascist.
Emily - it's been going on for so long now, I'm afraid of what happens when enough people lose the ability to be shocked. I don't reallywant to live in the sun king's court.
DeLie is a fucking HACTACULAR lying, stinking, frad. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
I have no idea what we're watching, but there is a big fluffy cat on the screen. It appears to be about the size of a panther.
And not only did the son-of-a-bitch have the nerve to hire a TRIAL LAWYER to SUE because his father was an inept amateur engineer, he got a $250K JUDGMENT and then rewrote the law so that no one else could benefit the way he did.
Have I mentioned tonight just how much I loathe these people?
I bet CNN a.k.a. Christian News Network will forget to mention this juicy little tidbit
One reason DeLay, et. als., decision wrt Schiavo is so opposed in the polls is that just about every family has now gone through this in one fashion or another. So it is clear to the people how they themselves have probably had to let someone go....
Anyway, that's why I feel this may just be a temporary setback for the President of Darkness.
He'll be in safer territory once he's screwing over OTHER people again.
Remind me why the 1/25 sociopath thing is just nonsense, now?
so does this mean that tom delay is a murderer?
One of the guys I play poker with has a step-son who (I hope) will be coming back from Iraq at the end of April. He's a stockbroker and thus a huge Bushite -- and maddeningly condescending when I can't stand it anymore and go off on one of my rants. He's thoroughly convinced the rebuilding is moving apace in Iraq and that we're turning the corner on the war. The step-son's at whatever that big camp is close to what's left of Fallujah (luckily, because of specialized training, he wasn't there for the "liberation" of Fallujah). I'm hoping my poker pal will learn a little something talking to his step son when he gets back.
so the delay family sues the manufacturer of the tram, collects $250k and:
"Three years later, DeLay cosponsored a bill specifically designed to override state laws on product liability such as the one cited in his family's lawsuit. The legislation provided sweeping exemptions for sellers of such products."
wow. that's pretty fucked up.
He'll probably just disown his stepson as a traitor, Toonscribe. Can't let the illusion die.
How much do you want to bet that President Bush will respond within hours, if not minutes, to the Schindlers in the tragic Terri Schiavo case upon receiving word that Mrs. Schiavo has passed?
Yep. It took him 5 days to respond to the worst school shooting since Colombine. I guess red people don't want our freedoms.
Toonscribe--not only do I hope he learns something from his stepson, but I hope he loses all his money to you.
"The situation faced by the congressman's family was entirely different than Terri Schiavo's," said a spokesman for DeLay, who declined requests for an interview.
"The only thing keeping her alive is the food and water we all need to survive. His father was on a ventilator and other machines to sustain him," said Dan Allen, DeLay's news aide.
So...one is hooked up to a machine that pumps protein goo directly into her stomach, the other was hooked up to a machine that pumped oxgen into his lungs.
I honestly do not understand the qualitative difference here. If you can't live without the insertion of a tube into your abdomen and the pumping of nutrition through that tube by a third party....the only difference between you and a guy on a ventilator is that he'll (probably) die faster when his is removed.
Technically, if we've been turning the corner so long, we've gone around 180 degrees and we're now technically backtracking.
I'm beginning to wonder. Can anyone name any single aspect of his life in which Tom Delay is not the biggest hypocritical bastard anyone here's ever seen?
badly injured in a freak accident at his home
Norman Bates,........anyone.
Toonscribe - WWIII, brown people, Islam is a religion of terror. Hopeless to try and change those minds.
Nim--there are qualitative differences, but not in terms of quality of life.
Maybe someone should start an on-line contest where people can guess how many minutes/hours it will take for Bush to speak up after Mrs. Schiavo's passing. Maybe he'll even hold a press conference.
My entry: four hours and fifteen minutes.
The Oracle
My money is on one hour or less.
so does this mean that tom delay is a murderer?
To be fair to Delay (gagh!), I believe this means rather that he is only an accessory to murder in the first degree.
-
I've been following the two concurrent "Death Watches" ongoing on cable news--name Terry Schiavo & the Pope and got to wondering what would happen if they just happened to leave us on the same day.
Click the link to find out.
http://www.filehigh.com/viewimg....p?f=1260&
i=4775
"Maybe someone should start an on-line contest where people can guess how many minutes/hours it will take for Bush to speak up after Mrs. Schiavo's passing. Maybe he'll even hold a press conference."
Cretainly. And he'll appoint a 'blue ribbon panel' of RW moralists, fake scientists and rw clergy to look into this further. It might even lead to 'Terri's Law'.
if I knew how to do italics, I would.
jdw
Comment areas on some blogs have that info
Try
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/
for one.
Disclaimer:
Fuck you if you think I give a shit if you think I have any thing to do with leftcoaster.
.
When can we officially say "big darkness, here now"?
First, I predict Terri Schiavo dies tomorrow, on Easter, just to make 'em go crazy.
Second, is there going to be a funeral? Boy, that would be a circus, now wouldn't it? Poor Mr. Schaivo. If he doesn't have a funeral, they will attack him for not letting the parents say good bye. If he does have one, oh my Gawd, what a circus.
Three years later, DeLay cosponsored a bill specifically designed to override state laws on product liability such as the one cited in his family's lawsuit. The legislation provided sweeping exemptions for sellers of such products.
Was it just a campaign contribution disguised as a legal settlement?
Even more important is the lawsuit information. Tort reform...DeLay-icious.
i hate to be crass, but did anyone notice that the senior delay literally died driving off a cliff.
it's in the genes.
so does this mean that tom delay is a murderer?
To be fair to Delay (gagh!), I believe this means rather that he is only an accessory to murder in the first degree.
actually, wouldn't this be criminal conspiracy since he was working with others?
"There was no point to even really talking about it," Maxine DeLay, the congressman's 81-year-old mother, recalled in an interview last week. "There was no way he (Charles) wanted to live like that. Tom knew, we all knew, his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way."
That was then. Grandstanding blowhard DeLie is on the record pimping the Shiavo matter in purely political benifit terms. He's outta there.
Maybe Tom is reliving his past. DNR-remorse?
One wonders how many oil worker deaths happened as a result of asbestos. The kind of case Big Dick is trying to absolve his company of.
Sorry, hate to disappoint you, but DeLay isn't up for national election. His stupid district will probably re-elect him. I live there.
Shirty--I'm so sorry.
bnky,
Hahahaha. Yep. They want to delay (hint) the rapture till they drive America over a cliff.
What do you expect from a city where 50% of the elementary school talent show acts were lip synching to Lee Greenwood's "Proud to Be an American."
Completely OT: what time is it now on the east coast of the US: is it 11 pm on a Saturday evening and when does daylight saving time in the US start? Eastern Australia put its clocks back one hour this morning. Just wondering ..
Thanks in advance 
So let me get this straight. Tom Delay & family supported "murder" and then sued but he doesn't think an ordinary citizen has the same right!! Also, Rick Santorum & family used the courts to sue, but doesn't think we should!!
Maybe we should try and make a list of all these politicians who ever supported "murder" in their own families and/or sued for gain and won. I'm sure we could generate a lot interest, especially if the list is long, and I expect it would be.
Sallyh
Unfortunately, he's a very good poker player. I am reasonably good -- win a little or break even most of the time and occasionally win big (or what passes for big in our friendly quarter ante game).
The thing with my poker buddy that bothers me the most is a lack of real empathy for people. He seems like a reasonably nice guy most of the time, but he really just doesn't have any clue that maybe people who are struggling to get by didn't have this problem because of some character flaw. How hard is it to figure out that sometimes people are just unlucky, especially unlucky enough to be born without advantages and connections?
Shirty--did you do something terrible in your childhood to deserve this?
I take it back. Not many kids could have met those qualifications. GWB being a notable exception.
"I honestly do not understand the qualitative difference here."
Well, there is a definitional difference, I think.(not that it matters in some respects)
If I understand correctly, life is defined as ending when all brain function ceases. That means if brain stem functions are present...breathing, heartbeat, eye movement... even in the absense higher level responces, a person is still 'alive' in some sense.
The Schindlers have told everyone to go home. It must be condition Red at Fox. Their story is dying faster than Terri. I am really dreading their next spin. We can think poorly of the Schindlers or on the other hand, of Michael. I just hope both sides can heal from this when Terri takes her last breath. We should never have been privey to this tragedy. But people such as Delay and Frist, coupled with the enabling power of a media one side calls liberal and the other calls wingnut are truly responsible.
Toonscribe:
He's thoroughly convinced the rebuilding is moving apace in Iraq and that we're turning the corner on the war.
Oh, but you know better, right?
Sorry, but I have answered my own question - the eastern seaboard of the US is now 15 hours behind Australia which means you are only going to introduce daylight saving time next weekend.
Luckily I was naive to the broader implications of all of this. I sat there, innocently, while teachers told their classes about how they hoped we were all virgins and how abortion was popularized to thin down the ranks of brown people.
My entry: four hours and fifteen minutes.
The Oracle
My money is on one hour or less.
RoyalWickedness
I'm guessing his heartfelt message will be an hour 15 minutes after her death. They'd probably want it sooner, but we have to account for the "where's aWol" factor.
Charles DeLay sounds like a certifiable idiot. How embarrassing. Not something a 65 year-old man would do unless he was drunk.
Hey, want to ride on my all new, personally designed (untested) tram that will take you 200 feet straight do to the lake at the bottom of this canyon?
Hell no! Who wants to end up like Terry Schiavo, in some kind of permanent vegetative state or worse?
Poppa DeLay must have had one of those bumper sticker that claims to the world that he is a, “Redneck, and proud of it”.
Maybe poppa DeLay was always in a vegetative state to being with. And just how did Tom get that defective, crooked eye of his anyways? Did poppa DeLay slap junior around a little bit or did junior develop some kind of stupid contraption of his own. Maybe DeLay accidentally sprayed his eye with some scorpion strength killer inspected when he could figure out which end of his wand was the nozzle.
Gosh, talk about the shallow end of the gene pool.
The Schindlers have told everyone to go home? Why don't I think it'll be that easy.
Disclaimer: Fuck you if you think I give a shit if you think I have any thing to do with leftcoaster.
Where did that come from? That's a really good blog. And there ain't no assholes there yipping about "Frist!"
April 3rd.
Hitchens VS Scarborough on Terri Schiavo coverage:
http://movies.crooksandliars.com...ens.mov\">CLICK HERE TO SEE SCARBOROUGH GET REAMED
I give the Schindlers credit for telling everyone to leave and just leave them alone. Let it be as it should have been--privacy for all those close to her to be with her as she passes.
er....that should be,
"scorpion strength killer insecticide."
Poppa DeLay must have had one of those bumper sticker that claims to the world that he is a, “Redneck, and proud of it”.
Ever hear the redneck joke punchline that ends with, "Hey! Watch this!"
Oops.
http://movies.crooksandliars.com....mov\">HITCHENS VS SCARBOROUGH VIDEO
What were the redneck's famous last words?
"Hold my beer and watch this!"
But this, and all his other evil ways like the Mexican whorehouse, pimping his daughter in the hot tub with lobbyists, these were things in his past, BEFORE he found Jeebus. Well, ok, before he REALLY found Jeebus, later, you know. Now he is washed clean as snow, and none of that stuff matters anymore; and no fair digging it up either, with your politics of personal destruction.
As far as how long after Terri Schiavo's death Bush will say something?
I bet he has already has a statement written, if not an already recorded video.
When can we officially say "big darkness, here now"? -Seebach
Big darkness vs. Big Science. Hard to tell who'll win. Just don't forget your mittens.
Big Science. Hallelujah.
Every man, every man for himself.
Big Science. Hallelujah. Yodellayheehoo.
Toonscribe, your friend sounds like my classic definition of a republican when my kids ask what this difference between dems and repubs. I tell them repubs think anybody that needs help isn't trying hard enough or trying to get away with something (like they would given the opportunity). Dems realize sometimes people have hardships through no fault of their own and are willing to take the chance somebody might game the system so people who truly need help get it.
I thought we were supposed to err on the side of life!
JeffCO--I'm voting for Big Science myself
And if you'd been my little brother, I most assuredly would have made you change the channels. As a firstborn, it is my solemn obligation and privilege to beat up on the laterborns
"Disclaimer:
Fuck you if you think I give a shit if you think I have any thing to do with leftcoaster."
What was that all about? Took a quick look, looks good enuf to me. Nonetheless, thanks!
Cheryl | Email | Homepage | 03.26.05 - 11:08 pm |
I give the Schindlers credit for telling everyone to leave and just leave them alone. Let it be as it should have been--privacy for all those close to her to be with her as she passes.
Sallyh
Buddy, are you tripping? [/snark] Those dumbasses have orchesrtated this entire circus. Moments after they asked for *privacy*, their idiot son gave an interview on Faux "News."
"Avid tinkerers" build a 200 foot tram down the cliff in their backyard...the thing fucks up on its "maiden voyage", they sue the bearing company and win $250,000?
$250,000 is chump change...that's a "go away" settlement. A kinda "we all know the bearings had nothing to do with it, but here's some cash so stop bothering us with the bad publicity". "Avid tinkerers" pretty much says it all.
Bugman obviously inherited the reckless gene..or was it a life choice?
"I give the Schindlers credit for telling everyone to leave and just leave them alone. Let it be as it should have been--privacy for all those close to her to be with her as she passes."
Yeah, credit. They seem to be real big on privacy.
Oh, but you know better, right?
Toby Petzold |
Yes, Toby, I do.
Okay. I misinterpreted their statement about wanting everyone to go home for Easter. I'd like to think some reality is checking in on them at this point, but I, too, am skeptical.
Christ, they're worse than the trolls if they gave the interview after declaring no more. Eventually even the trolls sleep.
I give the Schindlers credit for telling everyone to leave and just leave them alone. Let it be as it should have been--privacy for all those close to her to be with her as she passes.
Q. Who's the fastest man in America?
A. The man who can get between a Schindler and a camera.
Oh, and Bigvic? I think i'm just overly optimistic. It makes you think strange thoughts.
Now he is washed clean as snow,
Not!
Disclaimer: Fuck you if you think I give a shit if you think I have any thing to do with leftcoaster.
Where did that come from? That's a really good blog. And there ain't no assholes there yipping about "Frist!"
Toby Petzold
Sorry if I confused you.
I was making fun of disclaimers.
Actually, I'm not so sorry, I think I'll try to do it again, you know, troll like.
.
Maybe it's the 60" TV. What in the hell are we doing with a 60" TV, anyway?
""Avid tinkerers" build a 200 foot tram down the cliff in their backyard...the thing fucks up on its "maiden voyage", they sue the bearing company and win $250,000?"
Hey, anyone wanna ride in my homemade Saturn V rocket?
House Majority Leader Tom Delay is a complete and utter asshole.
There. I said it.
So, do the Schindlers have to give back all the payoffs from their wingnut handlers?
If the story gets any broader coverage, I wonder how many seconds it will take for someone on the knee-jerk right to whine that DeLay's private life should be left private.
I mean...they have such a talent for irony and all.
"Avid tinkerers" build a 200 foot tram down the cliff in their backyard...the thing fucks up on its "maiden voyage", they sue the bearing company and win $250,000?
Sounds like a frivolous shakedown lawsuit filed by the tax and spend liberal trial lawyers if you ask me.
Sallyh
I guess those payoffs would be on Schindlers list
Google "schiavo" then hit "feeling lucky"
then BARF.
Oh, and FUCK the Useless Timewasters™.
You all know who they are...
My question... what does this revert to when this is over? Social Security? Or Iraq?
And if you'd been my little brother, I most assuredly would have made you change the channels. - Sallyh
And had you been my big sister I'd be in your living room right now, eating your snacks and making you watch American Splendor in 60" hi-def wonder.
My question... what does this revert to when this is over? Social Security? Or Iraq?
Whoever Brad Pitt is fucking right now.
"Maybe it's the 60" TV. What in the hell are we doing with a 60" TV, anyway?"
I thought it was gonna be 42"?
Avid tinkerers" build a 200 foot tram down the cliff in their backyard...the thing fucks up on its "maiden voyage"
Did they get a Darwin Award?
Italics =
Bold =
Just remember to close your tags.
Now If I could only learn the Tiny URL for my links all would be coolio.
Happy Easter everyone. Peeps for all my friends.
Papa DeLay rode down a homemade tram?
There's video of that somewhere.
A Darwin Award.
Exactly what I was thinking, 'cept the base don't believe in no Darwin.
Wow I thought they would be in there.
Italics =
Bold = >/b>
What was that all about? Took a quick look, looks good enuf to me. Nonetheless, thanks!
jdw
Sorry, was just being sarcastic, looks like I confused more than you. Should a done a 
My bad.
Neighbor Braddick visited the hospital and said it seemed very clear to everyone there was little prospect of recovery.
"He had no consciousness that I could see," Braddick said. "He did a bit of moaning and groaning, I guess, but you could see there was no way he was coming back."
I'm wondering if big Daddy was SCREAMING Awwwwww Waaaaaa!
shirty ...
Is DeLay's district one giant freak show? Or are there a few sane folks there in addition to you?
There are a few sane people. But it's hard to know. I mean, do you want to put up a bumper sticker saying you're against DeLay and be shot? Not saying this has happened, but do you want to risk it?
Everyone in town carries concealed handguns. Even in church.
I'm guessing they never saw the delightful 1986 Australian film Malcolm, in which a clever young man (successfully) builds his own tram, among other contraptions.
Unrepentant Fenian: you are not making me feel very confident about trying italics and bold.
Of course, considering the recent church shootings, maybe that isn't such a bad idea...
"I give the Schindlers credit for telling everyone to leave and just leave them alone. Let it be as it should have been--privacy for all those close to her to be with her as she passes."
How nice of them. Tell that to the barefoot woman who got frisked at the gate that couldn't say goodbye to her grandfather due to the wingnuts causing a ruckus.
There are supposedly 50 some people in that hospice with families dealing with one of the hardest times in their lives being crapped on.
I'm sorry whats going on with their daughter but that comment proves to me they are living in some kind of bubble oblivious to the outside world.
I said before on these threads I just watched my sister in law at the age of 32 pass away from cancer and we as a family had to make the decision to pull life support.
If I had been turned away at the gate her last day because of some government instigated act of insanity I would have gone postal.
I would love to hear what all of the family members who have had to deal with that hospice feel and if they appreciate being called murderers by a Congressman and the media should they had been in the position to pull life support. I guess our family party to a crime according to Delay.
Odd how you havn't seen a second of Michael Schiavo in days yet the family has been plastered all over the news 24/7.
Here is a handy link to using handy HTML tags. Just a click away. Good luck.
shirty ...
Where in TX is his district?
Delay's dad rode the homemade sugarland express?
Where in TX is his district?
If you where to give TX an enema, that's were you would plug it in.
Around Houston. Originally it was Sugarland. I used to be in Ken Bentsen's district, and he was pretty liberal, since the Rice University area was included. After the 2000 census, my right wing little suburb got hooked into DeLay's cesspool.
got my where were backwards...
Duhlay is an asshole.
Thanks, bigvic
drat.
Another area of Houston has his disciple, John Culberson.
Heh. In high school, they had Earth Day music festivals in Houston, sponsored by this little-heard-of company called Enron.
Damn, Shirty ... My congressman -- the the congressman in the adjacent district -- are some of the good guys: Charlie Rangel and Jerry Nadler, respectively.
Thanks, Jeb 667,
Still getting a 404. Maybe it just doesn't like my computer. 
"The thing with my poker buddy that bothers me the most is a lack of real empathy for people. He seems like a reasonably nice guy most of the time, but he really just doesn't have any clue that maybe people who are struggling to get by didn't have this problem because of some character flaw. How hard is it to figure out that sometimes people are just unlucky, especially unlucky enough to be born without advantages and connections?
Toonscribe | Email | Homepage | 03.26.05 - 11:06 pm | # "
Do you play poker with Bush?
The Rice University-containing district I was cut out of became Chris Bell's district, which was destroyed by the redistricting, I believe.
See that the NYT (via Kos) is sticking another fork in DeLay.
If this past week and a half could bring down DeLay, things would start looking a lot more hopeful.
I know I'd throw a big party.
Hey sallyh, you got talked into a 60" TV?
Is there any legal reason that this country could NOT offer people in prison reduced sentences in exchange for enlisting in the military?
Not that *I* know of, Res, but that sounds like a bad idea. You wouldn't want racists and people who enjoy killing and torturing people to be in the military.
Is there any legal reason that this country could NOT offer people in prison reduced sentences in exchange for enlisting in the military?
Yes, you don't want convicted felons in the military. Ooops, you wanted a legal reason.
Is there any legal reason that this country could NOT offer people in prison reduced sentences in exchange for enlisting in the military?
Because giving felons who've been reading Chairman Mao and the Final Call machine guns, Apache helicopters and cruise missiles is a bad idea?
You wouldn't want racists and people who enjoy killing and torturing people to be in the military.
==
Umm,..Shirty.......
Old Hat ... I understand that. That's why I asked if there was a "legal reason."
I was thinking of what lengths the government will go to to avoid a draft. I wondered if they would take people in on non-violent felonies and offer them early release in exchange for enlistment.
"I don't care if it rains or freezes,"
Long as I got my plastic Jesus,
Sittin on the dashboard of my car."
It's reassuring the know not much has changed since Paul Newman sang this little diddy in "Cool Hand Luke."
It's as timely now as it was then.
Virgin birth...
I mean, you wouldn't want to send the message that we approve of soldiers that have no respect for human dignity and life.
PT Barnum was right.
As I recall from the old draft days, being a convicted felon was one of the things that could keep you OUT of the military. I also remember that sometimes, if you were busted for something, they'd drop the charges IF you enlisted -- so technically you weren't a convicted felon at the time of enlistment.
There wasn't enough delay in the tram.
OT: can someone with experience in burning cd's email me to answer a few questions I have? I bought a Memorex burner with Nero today and am trying to burn my first cd.
thanks.
my email is: sandraw1 - at - mindspring.com
I can't see how a draft is off the table, even if it is politically impossible.
" I also remember that sometimes, if you were busted for something, they'd drop the charges IF you enlisted"
Paging Michael Jackson, paging Michael Jackson.
OT, but very special Easter Bunny-blogging!
I wondered if they would take people in on non-violent felonies and offer them early release in exchange for enlistment.
Since most non-violent felonies are drug possession charges, I don't know how well that would work out either.
Do you really want ex coke heads manning checkpoints? I wonder what that would do to the number of "friendly fire" incidents.
sandra...sent ya an email. I gots Nero, too.
Res Ispa,
Your law education is paying off in spades. I'm proud of your vigorous mental exercise. The law is not always an ass. HA!
I also remember that sometimes, if you were busted for something, they'd drop the charges IF you enlisted -- so technically you weren't a convicted felon at the time of enlistment.
My high school biology teacher was a punk as a teenager. After he was busted stealing car radios, the judge said either he could join the Army or go to jail. He went on to become a Ranger and a Korean war veteran.
bigvic ... Thanks. But I'm sure there's something I haven't considered. To be clear: I would not be in favor of such a policy. But I did think that the government would consider it before it would resort to a draft. I think a draft would put thousands of kids into the streets in protest.
Just use Windows' CD writer, at least if you're using a newer version. Mount the blank CD. Double click on the drive to open the disk window and drag your files onto it. At the upper left you'll see the Write files to CD link (in XP Pro anyway).
Nero can be a little daunting at first. If you're just starting out, use the wizard and experiment once you've done what you have to do.
I wondered if they would take people in on non-violent felonies and offer them early release in exchange for enlistment.
I don't know if the military would allow convicted felons to serve in exchange for reduced sentences. However, there are very many reasons for opposition to such a proposal. You might find a few crimes that could be forgiven in return for service, but they would be very few. Drug crimes are obviously unsuitable. As are embezzlement related crimes.
" I think a draft would put thousands of kids into the streets in protest.".
..where they could be arrested and given the option to enlist...
Hey fouleggers,
I seem to miss you in the comming and goings here. Did you catch filker's stuffed bear pic? Hoo boy. Most cute.
Old Hat ... Well, I wonder if judges still do that? If they don't, I wonder if they'd start. Geez, thousands of people must be in front of judges every day. A lot of them have to be young males. And a lot of them would probably do just about anything to avoid prison.
>I think a draft would put thousands of kids into the streets in protest.
I agree with this, Res Ipsa, but since I was one of those kids out on the streets, I must retort: so the fuck what?
Protests can be ignored, if the media gods so dictate.
>" I think a draft would put thousands of kids into the streets in protest.".
>..where they could be arrested and given the option to enlist...
Ha, I was gonna say that.
Once upon a time, a long time ago when I was a girl, Easter was when you got a new dress (pastels, of course), a new hat, gloves, amd you got to wear white and/or patent leather shoes for the first time since the previous Labor Day. Even now, I can't bring myself to wear pastels/patent leather shoes during that time from Sept - March/April.
I think the last time I wore a hat in church was my senior yr in HS. (Well, I wore one for graduation, but that was diff)
Interesting why women have to wear hats in church (or used to), but men were committing a terrible breach by wearing one indoors. The women having to keep their heads covered is a reflection of the wretched Paul, a woman-fearing whacko who did more to fuck up the messages of the alleged Jesus Christ than any other.
It's so sad that Jesus's words - and, as I have said before, I give Xians the 4 books of the Gospels, no more - are so rountinely turned to shit by his so-called followers. Because of Paul, Xianity has turned into one big Ponzi scheme.
The killing and resurrection of the Christ, of course, is an age-old myth that has appeared in so many religions. Spring is, of course, the manifestation of resurrection of life from the death of winter. The beauty of it gives us all hope, and the cycle begins anew. Washed clean by the spring rains, we set about our tasks once again to plant, fertilize, tend, and, finally, havest, before winter comes and we go "underground" to rest until we are reborn once more when the light returns at Imbalc.
So too, too bad that the Jesus myth got captured and savaged by the power-hungry. The self-serving distorters, the vampires who have no lives of their own but must try to suck whatever they can out of those who do.
Anyroad, good fortune to us all this "Easter". May we rise up saner, more courageous, more sane, more compassionate than ever before - and ever more determined to stand against the evil that has so much out of balance in this beautiful world we have been fortunate to be born into.
my very best regards to you all. What a pleasure and privilege to visit here among you fine people.
SD
" I think a draft would put thousands of kids into the streets in protest.".
..where they could be arrested and given the option to enlist...
I've thought a lot about this. I personally don't think they're going to try a draft (at least not before the next congressional election).
But if it's serious enough that they need need one, I don't think you'll see much protest. They're going to raise the terror alert level in all of the major cities and pre-emptively arrest protesters the way they did during the RNC.
The media will cooperate by ignoring it.
The draft is on my mind a lot now b/c I have a cousin who is about to turn 17. I don't want this kid to get hurt or killed. I am just nuts about the kid.
Or the government can just find the anthrax killers, who are obviously Americans, and ask them to send out more letters. Then 'America is under attack' again, and there we go.
i just shotgunned it but it doesn't look good for delay. on the other hand these guys get away with murder all the time.
i think Christian Bunkshot called it. Tom has been washed and rewashed in the blood of jebus, and you liberal commies better leave him alone.
god forbid we be allowed to hang him out to dry.
And Vichycrats like Lieberman will be pro-draft, too, so it won't just be a matter of voting the GOP out. A draft would be easy, if the government wants.
And if it comes to a draft, or forfeiting Iraqi oil, it's easy to guess which one wins.
There was a time (Vietnam war especially) when enlistment could save you jail time, at least for petty crimes.
Once you were convicted, however, it was a different story. It was a form of plea bargain. You enlisted to avoid conviction.
Had a friend who did it. Was about to go away for 18 months for assorted driving offenses. Ended up in the Marines (no one else would take him by then). Spent 2 years at Pendleton. The training wouldn't take. Then they bunked him with a vet who wanted to go back so he could "kill a gook with an entrenching tool." Three months of that and he was gone.
Served in the DMZ during the Tet Offensive. Brought back uncensored pictures in a photo album, along with a fragging story about his company. Those pictures were the most horrifying things I've ever seen. I can still see some of them.
Or the government can just find the anthrax killers, who are obviously Americans, and ask them to send out more letters. Then 'America is under attack' again, and there we go.
There's nothing even remotely conspiratorial or far out about speculating about how they'll use terror alerts to stop protests.
They raised the terror alert in NYC on Feburary 15th in 2003 to prevent the anti-war march from going past the UN.
There have been far too many dry runs in NYC for a state of semi martial law to ignore that they've got plans to stop mass protests if they want to or need to. Think about the RNC, Feburary 15th, the Critical Mass Rides.
There will be no mass anti-draft protests unless there are enough very determined people willing to get arrested, enough to grind their system of processing people to a halt.
Sandraw1: I sent ya an email and would be happy to help ya with Nero. I'm off to bed now and will check in the a.m.
G'night, moonbats.
Do you really want ex coke heads manning checkpoints? /i>
Why not? We've got one in the White House.
Why not? We've got one in the White House.
RoyalWickedness | Email | Homepage | 03.27.05 - 12:17 am | #
And how's that working out?
SWR ... Are you in NYC? If so, where?
Touche.
Rumsfeld doesn't want a draft. He wants lots of spooks, lots of money to pay foreign agents with and lots of Special Forces units.
During the '04 election, (my ass) I kept a load of voter registration forms in my glove box. I handed them out to all the young men and some young women I had an encounter with. Without a doubt, most of them thought a draft would never happen. The more aware youngsters were alarmed and snapped up the voter form, signed it in my presence and I turned it in to the Dem headquarters. Lots of Rethugs in the area destroyed voter reg. forms signed by dems. True story.
The draft is on my mind a lot now b/c I have a cousin who is about to turn 17.
What about the Air Force Academy? It's a good school.
Very kind and thoughtful words, Sarah Deere.
SWR ... Are you in NYC? If so, where?
Res Ipsa Loquitor | Email | Homepage | 03.27.05 - 12:21 am | #
New Jersey
Snow ... He certainly has the grades. But I don't think he is the military school type. He's pretty suspicious of authority. I am way more worried about it than he is. He's 17, after all. Mostly he's worried about his grades and his girlfriend.
Nite jwd.
Okay, time to find a pillow. Good night, folks. Happy Easter to those of you who observe.
And of course it's not only NYC.
They can stop protests in DC as a matter of course by appealing to security.
In NYC, this shows you how important it is to beat Bloomberg. Ferrer's less likely to send the NYPD out to pre-emptively arrest protesters.
College campuses are media blackout areas. Anybody ever read the history of the Columbia strike in 1968? It didn't make the New York Times while it was going on (guess which owner of which paper sat on the board of trustees at Columbia?).
So they can do a lot to stop a critical mass of protest against a draft from building by using terror alert levels.
Mostly he's worried about his grades and his girlfriend.
Res Ipsa Loquitor
which is as it should be. i think i agree with Old Hat, and i bet Rumsfeld is getting all he wants.
of course that doesn't preclude the draft, i hate what these bastards are doing to this country.
poll at cnn.com:
Do you believe Terri Schiavo is suffering?
Yes 35% 86,949 votes
No 65% 162,342 votes
Total: 249,291 votes
There have been far too many dry runs in NYC for a state of semi martial law to ignore that they've got plans to stop mass protests if they want to or need to. Think about the RNC, Feburary 15th, the Critical Mass Rides.
A-farking-men. These brownshirts have used a paranoid amount of fake "security" concerns to wall off public discussion, protest and freedom of expression. They are fascists, pure and simple. Only the dumbest minds in Amurika buy it.
These brownshirts have used a paranoid amount of fake "security" concerns to wall off public discussion, protest and freedom of expression. They are fascists, pure and simple
Getting rid of Bloomberg is incredibly important this election.
It throws a wildcard into the deck as far as stopping protests in NYC. They can probably still do it but there will be that little bit of doubt.
The Republicans have controlled the Mayor's office in New York for a decade now. But I don't think they've built up enough permanent institutional base to do very much if a Democrat is back in office.
Andy et al: I think I spoke poorly when I made the comment about the Schindlers. I was thinking more along of the lines of, they're finally getting in touch with reality, but alas, that does not appear to be the case.
And I was horrified upon hearing about the young woman who was not able to be there for her grandfather's death.
I'm not sure we issue formal retractions on blogs, but this is mine. Mea maxima culpa, all.
How is it that Republicans get in as mayors of NYC?
I think this is the magic code you need: <i>italics</i> <b>bold</b>
Oh, and if you want to link, it goes like this: <a href="http://juancole.com/">Informed Comment</a>
Extra points to anybody who can figure out what I needed to type to get that to display!
Night, free thinkers and Moonbats. This free thinker is hitting the hay.
Peace out.
Evening, freethinkers
holy crap the sunday nytimes has a photoessay on wounded us troops in iraq
http://tinyurl.com/3pkng
I've got my nicest suit laid out for the Easter Sunday church service.
Rudy Giuliani is such a slimy prick if I passed him on the street, I couldn't help but punch him.
Ripley--how are you tonight?
It throws a wildcard into the deck as far as stopping protests in NYC. They can probably still do it but there will be that little bit of doubt.
As a flaky Californian, it seems like all NY mayors strive to accomplish two goals during their tenures: a) creating an environment where businessmen can make gobs and gobs of money and b) keeping the random stabbings to a minimum.
I think Koch, Dinkens, Guiliani and Bloomberg were all New York politicians first and Democrats and Republicans second. Doesn't seem like there's much difference between them. Wall Street, and the police and firefighter unions call the shots in that town.
night bigvic.
What is "American Splendor"?
Pretty good, Sally, and you?
I've been watching Daily Show clips for the last hour or so. Good stuff... lol
Nur-al Cube--that's got to be a first.
Oh, and if you want to link, it goes like this: Informed Comment
American Splendor is a movie about Harvey Pekar, author of the American Splendor comic book. Good movie.
splendor concerns underground cartoonist r. crumb i think
Here's a new toy, courtest of metafilter and netdisaster:
Checkout Fox News
oh it's pekar, sorry.
Hey there Ripeley. Really, peace out for me now that my work is done correcting a funky link. Nytal!
Oh my.....The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is on. The greatest western, and best soundtrack of all time.
Thanks, Shirty. JeffCO threatened to come over to my house, sit on my sofa, eat popcorn, and watch "American Splendor." I've suggested to my husband that it might be a better program than Adult Swim. He's not buying in.
NewsFlash: Come and see the destruction at RNC headquarters
The husband says Adult Swim looks just fine when it's on a 60" screen. I beg to disagree.
I loved the first episodes of Aqua Team Hunger Force and Sealab 2021, but it just went downhill from there, in my opinion.
Oh my.....The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is on. The greatest western, and best soundtrack of all time.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 03.27.05 - 12:50 am | #
==
Whoever you are, you got that almost right. It's the greatest movie ever.
Mena--cable or satellite?
Charles DeLay sounds like a certifiable idiot. How embarrassing. Not something a 65 year-old man would do unless he was drunk.
Hey, want to ride on my all new, personally designed (untested) tram that will take you 200 feet straight do to the lake at the bottom of this canyon?
Hell no! Who wants to end up like Terry Schiavo, in some kind of permanent vegetative state or worse?
Poppa DeLay must have had one of those bumper sticker that claims to the world that he is a, “Redneck, and proud of it”.
Maybe poppa DeLay was always in a vegetative state to being with. And just how did Tom get that defective, crooked eye of his anyways? Did poppa DeLay slap junior around a little bit or did junior develop some kind of stupid contraption of his own. Maybe DeLay accidentally sprayed his eye with some scorpion strength killer insecticide when he could figure out which end of his wand was the nozzle.
Gosh, talk about the shallow end of the gene pool."
Sounds like Texas has families that REALLY pass it on.
cable and satellite are soooo like trapped meek consumer pussies.
Fucking verizon over here, Sally. Why?
Ah, Texas ... I've always said that only one good thing ever came out of Texas: Shiner Bock.
My good friend (about whom more later) frequently corrects me ... her daughter was born in Texas. So, okay, two things.
Apologies to anyone else from Texas. But, you understand my position.
I love Shiner Bock. Best beer on the planet.
No, I meant where 'The Good, the Bad and the Ugly' was showing
I need to parse myself better. This seems to happen whenever I take Benadryl.
Foo -- that's pretty damned entertaining!
Rhetorical question, I guess -- what's with the skeevy eagle graphic? It looks like it has some kind of wasting disease.
Oh, wait ... never mind.
About that friend ... she is a liberal Democrat - probably even more liberal than I, if that's possible (she's lifelong, whereas I {gulp} voted for Reagan in '84, before I knew better) - married to a Texas Republican Navy vet now working ... get this ... for KBR/Halliburton in Baghdad.
I have absolutely no idea how she stays married to the guy ... and they've been together for ten years. The mind boggles.
Heh. It's not on near me, tired Sally. It was anonymous. Benadryl,eh?
I am drinking a Shiner Bock and enjoying a cigar at this very moment.
Despite the wingnuts, I love living in Florida. Especially this time of year, when it's warm enough outdoors to sit on my patio with a Shiner Bock and a cigar.
Mena--Benadryl lays my ass in the ground. But it's the only thing that works when the allergies get fierce.
Sallay, Cable...Starz Encore Westerns.
Anonymous--no premium channels, alas. I went for the 60" TV. Premium channels, eh, not so much.
Sallyh- be sure to tune in to Robot Chicken tomorrow night!
And I'd be happy to drop by for a marathon viewing of all 17 episodes of The Prisoner, which is seeming more and more relevant these days. I'll even work the remote! Does the couch fold out? I've also got Fawlty Towers. Maybe we should invite Eli.
Remember, with great screenwidth comes great responsibility - for hosting movie parties.
The Quiet Man is on AMC. The greatest John Wayne movie outside True Grit ever!
MYOB'
.
More Texas: I have an overnight business trip to Texas at the end of April. To, of all places, /Abilene/. I've never been there. Wish me luck. I'm guessing the locals won't dig my Democracy for America gear.
I should be more sympathetic. My sister and son get them bad. I never have. Sorry.
Crap - forgot that there's no quickie tags on here. Read: /Abilene/.
To celebrate Easter, I am just starting "Donnie Darko", which has a bunny rabbit in it that would give Harvey quite a run for his money...
AARGH.
Abilene.
Bite me, Haloscan.
oh, foo - that's wunnerful!!!!!
Sinfonian....give everyone a chance, always. You'd be surprised. We think we know Red Amuricah, but we don't, really. Lots of level heads out there!!!
No foolin'. Just go to neutral, as one of my I Ching books would have it.
JeffCO--seems this could be deja vu (I have a baby brother who periodically comes to LA and ties up my sofa, kitchen, and car). We don't have a fold out sofa in the living room, but the sofa in the living room is comfy. As for munchies, right now it's Goldfish Crackers and butterscotch oatmeal bars (homemade).
My husband, however, controls the remote. As you do have a Y chromosome, he'll take requests, but the remote is sacrosanct, since it is the only thing in the house he has control over.
JeffCO,
All 17 Prisoner episodes?!? I'm sooo jealous. Gotta admit--if I won the lottery, I'd also buy every available episode of Dangerman/Secret Agent, also. Dating myself. Again.
I do, Sarah, never fear. I am quite open-minded. Actually, I rather enjoy traveling to Texas ... although I could do without ever going back to Houston, for many, many reasons. I heart Austin, though.
To celebrate Easter, I am just starting "Donnie Darko", which has a bunny rabbit in it that would give Harvey quite a run for his money... -MisterX
Is that the original or (reportedly worsened) Director's Cut? I loved the original, but I'm ambivalent about the new version. Either makes a great double feature with Primer though.
JeffCO--husband has stuck in the original "Avengers" series. I think he spent his early adolescence fantasizing about Diana Riggs in a tight jumpsuit.
Did anybody see Fox News... around 9:15? They showed a picture of the U.S. Supreme Court with the caption underneath: Florida Supreme Court (refuses to hear appeal)
I have the show on TiVO but am having trouble capturing it to the computer to get a screenshot.
Sarah--I think the red/blue divide is fallacious. And I appreciate your kind and good words.
Sinfonian--I actually have enjoyed all my visits to TX. I love Austin and Dallas. I enjoyed the people I met in Houston. The climate, not so much.
My husband, however, controls the remote.
Fear not Sallyh, we all know you never touch another man's horse, woman, or remote (not necessarily in that order).
oh, Sinfonian, sorry to have had the bad manners to preach to trhe converted. My bad.
Yeah, Houston has a real water table problem. When I lived there some 40 yrs ago, it was still an okay place, except for the wretched climate.
The night before Easter Sunday is the biggest bar night of the year.
Anonymous--wouldn't surprise me.
" since it is the only thing in the house he has control over."
He needs to write a book. Tell us how he did it. He was able to pry one thing, but the most important thing away. If he writes it, men around the world will lay down their weapons, extinguish their thoughts of world domination, cancel their Maxim subscriptions to acheive this one, simple and humble goal.
I think he spent his early adolescence fantasizing about Diana Riggs in a tight jumpsuit.
Forget Bond, Diana Rigg is the only one with M appeal.
Sorry.
JeffCO,
All 17 Prisoner episodes?!? I'm sooo jealous. Gotta admit--if I won the lottery, I'd also buy every available episode of Dangerman/Secret Agent, also. Dating myself. Again.
Soprano
Got 'em! Shit, I belonged to the Six of One fan club back before the show looked like a prediction.
And JeffCO, I'm giving the director's cut a spin tonight... we'll see.
.
As a flaky Californian, it seems like all NY mayors strive to accomplish two goals during their tenures: a) creating an environment where businessmen can make gobs and gobs of money and b) keeping the random stabbings to a minimum.
For the most part yes.
But Bloomberg seriously changed the rules of the game by using the NYPD and his own personal money to destroy the protests around the RNC.
I don't buy the line that he's a liberal Democrat in Republican clothing. I think that he's a genuine right-wing authoritarian statist.
Remember, he comes out of Wall Street itself. Koch turned Republican because of Israel but he still had a past as a liberal from the Village.
Dinkins came out of the Democratic machine and, if anything, he was too responsive to his consituents (for example, his weak response around Crown Heights).
But Bloomberg sees himself as above the city itself. He doesn't like the street culture of New York. He doesn't like disorder. Guiliani was kind of a suburban Catholic right-wing asshole in Manhattan but Bloomberg is pure statist. He wants to run New York like you'd run Goldman Sachs. That's why he's so dangerous as far as stoppig any mass movement that could build against the draft.
SWR, is there hope of getting rid of Bloomberg??
thanks, Sallyh.
SWR, is there hope of getting rid of Bloomberg??
Sarah Deere | Email | Homepage | 03.27.05 - 1:26 am | #
Yes. More than hope. He's probably going to lose this time.
Unless the Republicans give enough $$$ to Al Sharpton and he finds some way to fuck it up.
All 17 Prisoner episodes?!? I'm sooo jealous.... Dating myself. Again.
Soprano
Please, if we won't date ourselves, why would anyone else?
Regarding The Prisoner, all I can say is TGFC: Thank God For Costco! BTW, you might also be interested in this!
I'd say of poor Terri Schiavo that odds are she won't live to see tomorrow, but that would be crass.
It took him 5 days to respond to the worst school shooting since Colombine.
Oh, it wasn't chimpy's fault -- he kept getting an answering machine. Do you blame them for not calling the chimperor back?
Taking a break from coloring eggs and had a horrible thought. Has the funeral been pre-planned? I don't know if I can take an after death custody battle.
Church cuts ties to food pantry because of Catholics
The Associated Press
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A church has withdrawn its support for a food pantry serving the needy because the pantry works with Roman Catholics.
Central Church of God explained its decision in a letter March 1 from minister of evangelism Shannon Burton to Loaves & Fishes in Charlotte.
"As a Christian church, we feel it is our responsibility to follow closely the (principles) and commands of Scripture," the letter said.
"To do this best, we feel we should abstain from any ministry that partners with or promotes Catholicism, or for that matter, any other denomination promoting a works-based salvation."
Loaves & Fishes isn't the only ministry with which the large church has cut ties, and Catholics have not been the only reason they've given.
The Rev. Tony Marciano, executive director of Charlotte Rescue Mission, said Burton told him the church could no longer support the agency after it allowed three Muslim students from UNC Charlotte to help serve a meal.
Doug Hartjes, director of development for Crisis Assistance Ministry in Charlotte, said Central Church of God told them it will not provide financial support this year. Crisis Assistance provides emergency financial aid and other help to people.
...The church also ended funding for Love Inc., which provides services for the poor, elderly and disabled in Mecklenburg County.
Anna Burton, a spokesperson for Central Church of God and the minister's wife, said church leaders decline comment, letting the letter speak for itself. She said there was no animosity toward any of the organizations.
The Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte released a statement Friday, saying, "This apparent attempt to divide the faith community is most unfortunate."
With some 6,000 members, Central Church of God is known for its huge crowds and electrifying sermons by the Rev. Loran Livingston.
EkCenTrik--asked him. He said he staged a coup early in our relationship when it became apparent that I was a very picky TV viewer. He figured that if he didn't take control of the remote, he'd never get to watch bad TV, and what fun would that be?
He claims that encoded on the Y chromosome is a gene that compels its human to watch and even enjoy terrible TV.
BKNY--I think Christ would be pissed as hell to learn of this.
SWR, is there hope of getting rid of Bloomberg??
Ferrer is leading Bloomberg in the polls.
JeffCO--hell, I was waiting for someone to call out the dead pool.
Yes. More than hope. He's probably going to lose this time.
Unless the Republicans give enough $$$ to Al Sharpton and he finds some way to fuck it up.
SWR
though bitterly.
Well, let us hope.
I refute that. I watch impeccably wonderful TV, as much as such a thing exists.
The Rev. Tony Marciano, executive director of Charlotte Rescue Mission, said Burton told him the church could no longer support the agency after it allowed three Muslim students from UNC Charlotte to help serve a meal.
These guys are the modern American Bund Party. Disgusting.
Shirty--could you enlighten me as to what there is worth watching these years? I'm pretty much down to TDS and the Simpsons.
Church cuts ties to food pantry because of Catholics
well, bkny, that's just real, you know, overwhelmingly "Christian" of them.
Fuck these idiots. Sideways.
Well... THESE DAYS? Um... the Daily Show and the Simpsons?
JeffCO--Secret Agent? That was a cool show!
We all knew that "moral values" horseshit back in November from the TV shitheads was tripe. It was just code for "anything goes except gay".
sarah -- yea, i thought it was a lovely easter story.
I hear the Office, British version is pretty good, though I have yet to see it, and my brother showed me an outtake from Tha Ali G show that was so funny I nearly asphyxiated, but I don't watch much these days.
Shirty--my point exactly.
He's marveling at how wonderful the commercials look. Okay, I confess. I like the Whiskas one where Watertiger lets her clan loose.
Church cuts ties to food pantry because of Catholics
well, bkny, that's just real, you know, overwhelmingly "Christian" of them.
Fuck these idiots. Sideways.
Yeah but it's irrelevent.
Catholics and Evangelicals are close allies against "secularism".
They push the same issues. They tend to vote Republcan. They believe in the same authoritarian control.
This little incident is nothing. They're on the same side.
I don't know if someone has already posted this, but it's apparently from an email that's going around:
18 Things We Learned From the Schiavo case
1. Jeb Bush, George W. Bush, and Tom Delay are all world renowned neurologists.
2. 22 successive court battles that all ended in exactly the same way means there is something wrong with the courts, not the Schindler's case.
3. Michael Schiavo is after money which is why he turned down 1 million dollars and 10 million dollars to sign over guardianship.
4. Congress and the State Legislature of Florida has nothing better to do than pry into the private medical affairs of others.
5. Pulling life support is bad in Florida when authorized by the legal next-of-kin, but pulling life support is good in Texas when you run out of money and the mother pleads not to pull the plug on her baby.
6. Medical diagnoses are best performed by watching highly editted videotape made by Randall Terry rather than in person by trained physicians.
7. Minimum wage making nursing assistants are more qualified to diagnose a persistant vegetative state than experienced neurologists.
8. Cerebral spinal fluid is a magical potion that can mimic the entire functions of a missing cerebral cortex.
9. 15 years in the same persistant state is not really enough time to make an accurate diagnosis.
10. A feeding tube that infuses yellow nutritional goop is not really "life support".
11. Jesus was wrong when he said that a man and woman should leave their parents and cleave only to each other.
12. Marriage is the most sacred of all unions, except when it isn't.
13. Interfering in a family's private tragedy is a great reason to cut short a vacation, but getting a memo that warns a known terrorist is determined to strike inside the US is cause to relax and finish up some R&R.
14. Pro-lifers are really compassionate people, which is why they are hoping that Michael Schiavo dies a horrible, painful death.
15. The Supreme Court of the United States and the State Supreme Court of Florida mean "Maybe" when they are saying "No!".
16. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia is a bleeding heart liberal.
17. 7 Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republican Presidents, so it's obviously Clinton's fault.
18. A judge who makes rulings based on the law is obviously an atheist, liberal, democratic activist even though he is a Conservative, Republican, Southern Baptist.
I think at some point in the not too distant future US Catholics will regret their alliance with the Evangelicals.
I've watched so little TV, whenever I'm around my family, and I see commercials, I literally swear at the TV.
Actually, because I had never seen Law and Order before three months ago, I do enjoy Law and Order: Special Victims Unit. Y'know, as much as you can enjoy a show about horror and depravity.
Ah, who am I kidding? I don't mind being crass.
There's a man who loves his wife despite danger
That loving Xian nuts would kill a stranger
At every appearance he makes
They still insist he fakes
But odds are she won't live to see tomorrow
Vegetative brain, vegetative brain
They're making her a martyr
And keeping him in pain
Or really, a show about good people trying to stay sane in the face of horror and depravity. Which has appeals for obvious reasons.
And the 15 minutes I saw of Curb Your Enthusiasm were pretty funny.
I think at some point in the not too distant future US Catholics will regret their alliance with the Evangelicals.
I don't think so. I think there's a permentant divide now between Evangelicals/Catholics/Pro-Israel Jews on one hand and Mainline Protestants/Secular Jews/Secularists on the other hand.
The real divide is conservative vs. liberal. Not Protestant/Catholic/Jews.
That alliance is permanent. Look at the way the Evangelicals are having so much success recruiting in the Hispanic population. Yes, the Catholics might regret this eventually but part of the reason is also the fact that the Catholic church (while anti-gay in theory) has been associated with the pedophile priest issue and is perceived in certain immigrant communities as being gay.
Res Ipsa (if you're still out there) -
I worked with Marine Corps Recruiting Station Raleigh, NC for 13 years, and the practice of judges going "military or jail" is now a no-no. In fact, it's an instant lifetime bar to enlistment if it comes up that you or your recruiter talked to a judge and effected that sort of "plea bargain".
As to legal reasons for giving non-violent offenders the option of military service, well, it would take a big re-write of the current rules. Right now if you have anything other than minor traffic offenses on your record, you really have to jump thru hoops to get the military to accept you; generally, you have to show that you're a really great person who made a mistake in your past.
Of course, the recruiters (and the staff at the RS Headquaters, where I was) are really good at jumping thru hoops - I remember a case of a pizza delivery guy that shot and killed a customer who "pretended" to rob him and still got in. I'll leave to your imagination the jokes that went around the office about "at least we know he can handle a gun."
Freedom FROM religion, please.
Oh, please.
I don't ask this to be vulgar or vicious, but on what legal basis could the State object to Michael Schiavo attempting to have carnal relations with his wife at this very hour? Would he be charged with spousal rape? Would the State charge him with this, saying that she is unable to consent?
Umm.... Toby? What are you talking about? You're not serious, are you?
Toby, why would you even ask such a question?
Honestly.
'Freedom FROM religion' indeed, Sarah Deere!
I don't ask this to be vulgar or vicious,....
Fuck off, scumbag.
Have you no sense of decency, at all?
I don't ask this to be vulgar or vicious, but on what legal basis could the State object to Michael Schiavo attempting to have carnal relations with his wife at this very hour?
Toby. Assuming you're not a name stealer, a husband can't rape his wife and an unconscious woman can't consent to sex.
Figure out the rest.
And, oh yeah, eeeeeeew.
SWR,eeeeeew...word.
Now I've seen everything -- an LGF thread with numerous perfectly level-headed comments, including by Charles himself, on both sides of the TS issue. Some extremism mixed in but a trivial amount by LGF standards.
SWR, My entire family is entrenched Catholics, the twice-a-week to church kind. The church is separated into two groups, about 50/50. My parents belong to the Kerry-voting half, the one that wants good works done for others.
Everyone in my family voted for Kerry, my father calls Santorum "Hitler."
So much for religious stereotypes. My parents regularly keep their mouths shut at church when the other 50% start harping on "the liberals."
SWR:
Assuming you're not a name stealer, a husband can't rape his wife
That isn't true.
and an unconscious woman can't consent to sex.
But, according to the Schindlers, she is conscious.
HELL-o! Ignore the Useless Timewasting™ Trolls!
Pass.
.
But, basically, if you read further, the LGF folks are as insane as ever. And as vicious.
I have lived long enough to finally be sable to say..."there are two kinds of people..."
Jeebus H Christ in a prom dress. WTF is the MATTER w/people.
The more I live, the more I despise the LGFers among us.
I want to backhand them into the next century.
I don't WANT to get along with them. I want to chain them up somewhere they can't harm the rest of us.
Have you no sense of decency, at all?
No, it's Toby, the necrophiliac troll. He's masturbating now just thinking about it.
What kind of sick fuck would even think such a thing?
Reality Check Bouncer--growing up in the burbs of Boston, which is a heavily Catholic area, voters tended to be Democratic and liberal. Many of them were extremely churchgoing and devout.
I'm curious as to what you're trying to get at, Toby. Is this some kind of thought experiment?
that bastard
Spot the "Toby Petzold"-troll amongst the Eschatonians:
Everyone in my family voted for Kerry, my father calls Santorum "Hitler."
My father's family is Catholic and none of them (even the non practicing ones) would admit that Kerry could be a "real Catholic" (since he was divorced).
But it's more than religious stereotypes. I'm talking about real political issues.
1.) Abortion
2.) Gay Marriage
3.) This Schiavo mess
The Vatican and the Christian coalition side with each other more than they oppose each other.
Man, that little toby fucker just about had everyone here fooled, including me. Jesus. What a nasty piece of work.
Sarah--the day after the election, I was in no mood to compromise and work with the rightie whities. I'm not feeling any more conciliatory these days.
I still dream about the whole cabal being hauled off in leg irons and orange jumpsuits. Preferably to Gitmo.
We can tell by the commentary that this IS the real Toby. Begrudgingly, he's making a point on the right side here, that if the minions of DeLay keep harping that she's "conscious" then he can have a "normal" relationship with Terry.
OMG, I just agreed with Toby the necrophiliac troll!!!
Not on the sex, on the principle.
Sallyh,
what you just said.
I hate these fuckers.
But, according to the Schindlers, she is conscious.
Toby Petzold | Email | Homepage | 03.27.05 - 2:14 am | #
Well you're "conscious" when someone's slipped you a date rape drug too.
Or at least that's what Toby tells himself.......
Sarah--the optimist in me refuses to die, but lately, I think that might be simply delusion.
They shouldn't have lied and said that Schiavo's death would be serene and peaceful. It was on the news tonight that they are giving her morphine to ease her pain. Morphine is given for extreme pain.
I was just thinking aloud about Terri Schindler Schiavo's incapacity to consent to such a thing and how that bears on the notion of her own consciousness in a legal sense.
SWR--I could see it becoming more permanent should Jozef Cardinal Ratzinger be JPII's successor.
Sallyh,
We must NOT give up. It;s how they always win...they wear us down.
Rally, babe: we have to.
At least, that's how it is for me. I am old enough thyat I have this responsibility to my son and my grandchildren to hold the line as best I can. I will NOT give up.
SD
I was just thinking aloud about Terri Schindler Schiavo's incapacity to consent to such a thing and how that bears on the notion of her own consciousness in a legal sense.
Toby do you see why your comparison makes no sense.
Terri Schiavo is brain dead.
There are states in between being brain dead and being fully conscious where you'd be unable to consent to sex.
For example, someone who's been drugged. Nobody's saying someone who's been drugged is brain dead. But nobody's seeing he/she can consent to sex either.
Gosh! What a surprise. All the craphounds come out at night, sniffing at the crotch of my purpose.
Sarah--I'm ridiculous to think that I'd give it up. For one thing, I hate losing. Probably more than anything, I hate losing.
I want the country I was born in to be a nice place to live.
A question for the peanut gallery... Didn't JPII support Bush for reelection? Didn't JPII also plead for peace?
If this is so, then he's been senile for quite some time.
Sallyh is very right in her comment about catholics and evangelicals being together. The evangelical protestants have always considered the catholic church as foriegn and thus its members untrustworthy americans. So as catholics in order to protect our freedom we must shun the right-wing evangelicals who try to suduce us with anti-abortion rehtoric and instead we must make a society that values life so that abortions are not nessacery(sp). Remember it was the protestant control of public schools that gave the imputance(sp) for parochial schools, and in 1884 the republican nomminie Jame G. Blaine failure to repudiate a protestant minister speach on how the democrats were the party of"Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion" that gave the election to Grover Cleaveland.
oh, jerry, just about everyone who dies gets morphine.
the body doesn;t want to give up, and whoever said death was painless was about as much a liar as said birth - and, for that matter, life - is painless.
Please: know what is fairy tale and what is truth, and be adult enough to accept it.
Really.
It IS (!!!!) the real Toby. Toby, your purpose is to be an asshole, and we can smell the shit a mile away, we don't have to sniff.
SWR--I could see it becoming more permanent should Jozef Cardinal Ratzinger be JPII's successor.
Interestingly enough, most of my right-wing Bush voting Catholic relatives don't go to Church.
But I get the sense that if any decided to get religion any time soon, they'd probably become evangelicals, not go back to the Catholic Church or join some mainline protestant church.
That's the real strength the evangelicals have. If you're Catholic, you're out if you get divorced. The Evangelicals hate divorce but they'll pretty much take anybody (who isn't gay).
A lot of my mainline Protestant (non church going) relatives are also pretty right wing.
I don't really think there's much of a correlation between churchgoing and conservatism or lack of churchgoing and liberalism.
American popular culture is basically right, wing, puritanical and based on punishment, a sense of sin. Look at the slasher movies where you get whacked for having sex. The cop shows and the family court and advice for the lovelorn shows.
It's all one big popular culture of sadism and guilt that helps the evangelicals and the Vatican.
I have no inner optimist. Actually, I find the more hopeless things become, the happier I am. Hope is just depressing.
Reality Check Bouncer--JPII most assuredly did not support GWB's theft of the elections, either time. He was intensely critical of Bush's involvement in Iraq. Apparently Bush's audience with the Pope involved a great deal of scolding.
Reality Check Bouncer--JPII most assuredly did not support GWB's theft of the elections, either time. He was intensely critical of Bush's involvement in Iraq. Apparently Bush's audience with the Pope involved a great deal of scolding.
The Pope obviously won't come out and endorse a presidential candidate but the Catholic hierarchy in the US actively campaigned for Bush against Kerry.
Remember all of that talk about how Kerry was going to be denied communion? I'm sure most of it had the Vatican's blessing.
SWR--remember that traditionally, RCs did not vote Republican. That's a fairly recent phenomenon.
SWR--can't swear to whether or not the behavior of the US bishops was Vatican sanctioned or not. The clergy in Europe was very critical of their actions.
Shirty--my husband's inner pessimist would like your inner pessimist to come join him in watching the new TV.
I still can't believe we bought that thing.
I don't ask this to be vulgar or vicious, but on what legal basis could the State object to Michael Schiavo attempting to have carnal relations with his wife at this very hour? Would he be charged with spousal rape? Would the State charge him with this, saying that she is unable to consent?
I worry when the reality of the Terri Schiavo case is not weird enough for people so that they have to come up with even more ridiculous scenarios.
To give a serious answer to an assinine question, it should considered the same as necrophilia, which is becoming illegal now.
SWR--remember that traditionally, RCs did not vote Republican. That's a fairly recent phenomenon.
I can see it in my own family. Most of them voted for Bush. 30 years ago, they were Democrats.
And in their case, it's not even abortion or gay marriage that did it.
It was affirmative action, the war, and race. But these issues also work with (white) Evangelicals.
I won't say that most of my Catholic relatives look at Evangelicals as anything but freaks they laugh at.
But they still voted for the same president.
Sallyh,
This country used to be a nice place to live, and it can be again.
Thhis country is currently in the foul grip, of fear, thanks to the BFEE. And thanks to the obscenely rich who seek to control how/what we think and feel.
Fuck them.
We can take it back. Not without a lot of work, but...think about people you have known in your life with whom you did not necessarily agree....but who were still decent folks.
There are a LOT of them out there who who not want the world made over in the foul image of the Bush's politics.
It's gonna be okay. It really is. Hold on to your positive thoughts, counter the negative.
What;s that goddamned song?
"You've got to...ACCENTUATE the positive....."
(loved it than Clint E sang that for the soundtrack of "Midnight in the Garden of...")
The SCUM certainly did make it confusing.
I'm thinking bringing down DeLay would be a wonderful opening shot to dismantling the whole crazy band.
Actually, I find the more hopeless things become, the happier I am. Hope is just depressing.
shirty
Shirty, I am once more reminded of John Cleese, I believe in Fawlty Towers, something to the effect of, "I can take the despair - it's the hope I can't stand!!!"
OT but I was wondering if anyone else heard there was a shooting at the hospice where Schiavo is being kept? 27 year old receptionist for the hospice being shot in the face but will survive? They got the license plate apparently. I heard it on NPR or Air America in the car, but can't find anything on the net.
SWR--It's sort of strange that they would vote similarly, isn't it?
I wonder if this is an aberration. Some of the points you raise suggest it's not.
It's harder for us younger folks. All of the America I've seen has been pretty much disgusting, living in the maw of Tom DeLay country. And after the election, my capacity for empathy and idealism just became dessicated. I could easily leave and not come back.
I hope you're kidding, ellroon, but I know you're not, and have been expecting this.
Whoa, Ellroon--gotta find that. Keep us posted, could you?
Shirty--I think it is harder for the younger ones. We tell our daughter about the visions that we used to have for this country, what things were like when we were younger (not all good--I mean, we did have Nixon).
I'm ready for some liberal good times myself. In the meantime, I don't think we did well by the younger generation (I suspect my 19 year old daughter is closer to your age than I am.)
Can't find it anywhere, would like to validate it first. But it isn't the kind of thing our news would run. Will post whatever I find.
Might be about this:
Houston police were still searching Saturday for a man accused of shooting his wife in the face in the parking lot of Memorial Hermann Hospital, where she worked as a valet.
Yeah. I'm 22. And I don't think it's the fault of a previous generation. I just think it's the awesome power of the conscienceless to trick those with ideals.
About three, six months ago, I was talking about how if the Christian right ever gets the feeling that their voice isn't heard through the political process, they will turn to violence.
And if ellroon is right, it will be yet another prediction of mine that has come true.
You guys are so interesting. I've been lurking since before the election, but never have commented. Just wanted to say thanks for all your spirit. Husband, 4 year old daughter/goddess and I are off to Costa Rica in a week for an undetermined period of time. I'll be checking in here to keep connected. I just really need a break from the insanity.
Shirty--I'm afraid we're not blameless. One of the most shameful things I can say of many of my peers is that so many of them supported Ronald Reagan.
You guys are so interesting. I've been lurking since before the election, but never have commented. Just wanted to say thanks for all your spirit. Husband, 4 year old daughter/goddess and I are off to Costa Rica in a week for an undetermined period of time. I'll be checking in here to keep connected. I just really need a break from the insanity.
squish
Have a nice trip, and be sure to look for nudibranchs down there!
Squish--good call! Be safe and have a wonderful time there. Hope to hear from you soon.
Shirty, this was once a loveky country.
Yes, there was always corruption, because we are human beings, after all.
Please, young one, fight for what's right. Believe me: there is no where you can go. The best was conceived here, and must be defended here.
Everywhere on this sweet earth there are monsters and vicious, vicious people who would warp, for their own benefit, the freedom that we have tried to develop and perfect these 200+ yrs.
It is ever thus.
Take a stand. Every now and then, freedom needs defending. The "founding fathers" suffered significantly. Look it up.
We all play a part in history determined by when we are born. For myself, I had a brief period in my childhood where stuff was pretty cool. However, from my early adulthood, things have been "iffy" and now I find myself in one of the biggest battles of my life. \
You will be part of this battle, if you so choose, and I hope you will.
People like GW Bush are so inimicable to the ideal of human governance that it is beyond the obscene. He needs to go into the dumpster of history!!
And, SHirty, goddess bless you, where you gonna go??? Might as well stand and fight it where you find it.
Unfortunately, this battle is never permanently won. Evil is like a hydra. Fortunately, so is Good. Work/fight to keep the balance. The choice is yours. You can never turn your back on it, because, by not choosing, you choose anyway.
Phila!
Are nudibranches your study organism of choice?
Actually, I find the more hopeless things become, the happier I am. Hope is just depressing.
shirty
Shirty, you must be the happiest person in the world, things are looking pretty damned hopeless right now.
But, take to heart the election, not its outcome. I was the most Anti-American person around before the campaigning started, then at the end, the efforts, the eloquent speeches, the reactions of the losers... not one of defeat, but of resignation, nonacceptance, and no apology for it. We lost our country in 2000, and got it back in 2004. Its soul, anyway, came forth in true color. Millions didn't vote, they are the hopeless... and they could have turned the tide.
Thanks Seraphiel! That is it. Still horrific but of a different sort. I only heard the tail end of the news article.
At least it isn't a righteous rapturizer smiting out of spite because we have denied his mighty will.
Phila!
Are nudibranches your study organism of choice?
Sallyh
No, I just like 'em! Although I initially learned about 'em in a marine biology class in college...so I guess they were my organism of study, for a week or two...
Shirty--I hold a British passport (my parents were born in No.Ireland, and I was eligible for one). It's in the safe, and I've sworn that unless it comes to martial law, it will never be used.
Phila--are your subjects now mammalian, fungal, bacterial, viral or otherwise?
Phila,
Kevin Mitnick. Any opinions/thoughts?
Shirty--I hold a British passport (my parents were born in No.Ireland, and I was eligible for one). It's in the safe, and I've sworn that unless it comes to martial law, it will never be used.
Sallyh
Me too. It's definitely a comfort...though sometimes it's hard to imagine us going down without taking everyone else with us...
Hey Backslider, how are you this fine morning?
I feel for all of you who live in the deepy red areas. Since we sold our house last fall, we've been half travelling and half living with my parents in NE Texas. Yikes! It's positively stifling here! We just try to avoid the teevee news (at least they don't have cable) and ANY mention of politics with my deeply embedded conservative family.
Shirty, we've already got dead abortion clinic personnel.
Phila--are your subjects now mammalian, fungal, bacterial, viral or otherwise?
Sallyh
I get it...you're mistaking me for a biologist. Actually, I'm just interested in it. At this point I'm a writer / researcher / editor / consultant, depending on who's paying me for what. Closest thing I have to expertise is in industrial hygiene / hazmat chemistry, and I gave that up a bunch of years back because I was tired of breathing the fumes.
Yeah... I figure that if we go down, nowhere else is safe. But it's just if the American ethic is it's too much a bother to get up and vote, because it's hopeless, or me me me me, it's all about myself and if you make me uncomfortable FUCK YOU and die and be tortured because my way of life is sacred... how can I deny the allure of that? Just get up and go and leave the rapturists to persecute each other for the rest of their lives.
Squish, you're lucky to be able to leave. I couldn't, so settled for relocation to a blue state.
Sallyh,
High, therefore, good. Also saw some good local bands this evening, so it's been a nice night. It's also raining and I dig the rain.
How're you?
Kevin Mitnick. Any opinions/thoughts?
Backslider
I don't know much about him. When I lived in NYC, I remember hearing a long radio program about him that was pretty fascinating...some pro-hacker program on WBAI, I think. Kind of seemed like they made an example of him, to say the least.
Any particular reason you're asking? Something new happening?
Phila--I'm sorry! My background is in biostatistics, specifically in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics, but also in safety trials of medications. I also worked on antibiotic resistance studies. So the world looks scientific to me. No wonder I feel a bit out of place these years.
shirty - I feel you (in that non-literal way). We decided to get some distance, expose the little one to a different way. It's not easy to know which way to turn sometimes. It's good to look for answers, though. Don't let yourself get emotionally involved with the depressing stuff.
Backslider--my brother's band stayed at my home a few years back for a week. It was an...interesting experience. They were actually very nice and deeply appreciative of being fed, but I think I was finding roaches in the furniture for a month. Also had a record number of empties for the recycler that week.
Phila,
Nah, no reason. Just drifted across the radar, and it got me to thinkin' how Americans going completely apeshit nuts unneccessarily over what they don't understand and the tendency of the mainstream media - particularly the NYT - to pour Everclear on the fire isn't exactly a brand-new thing.
Just get up and go and leave the rapturists to persecute each other for the rest of their lives.
This is probably completely trivial, but it popped into my head earlier tonight: given that virtually every scene from the Bible was painted repeatedly in the centuries running up to, say, 1820...does it ever strike fundies as odd that the Rapture is never depicted? And that there are no songs or hymns dealing with it? And no church writings?
A rhetorical question, obviously. Even if they knew it, they wouldn't care...
I don't intend to flee while there's still hope. But if the rule of law and Bill of Rights are forfeit, then America is simply a country, and in the true Republican spirit, myself and my money become paramount and loyalty is dissolved.
Sallyh,
If they were road musicians, I wouldn't doubt it. There's nothing in this world sweeter than the same sleeping arrangements for consecutive nights when you're out on the road.
RCB - After years of being the cash-poorest folk we knew, we decided to sell our money-pit house and strike out on an adventure. All those years of rehab weren't for nothing, thank the goddess! The Husband says he's just doing his mid-life crisis early and with me. I always appreciated living in blue, blue Baltimore, but maybe not enough!
Well, Shirty, if you ever get the urge to visit a 'blue' state (and don't let Ahhnuld fool you), stop on in. If for nothing else, my husband purchased a giant TV today. He is very proud of this. JeffCO claims that with large TVs come large responsibilities, such as inviting friends over for viewing and providing lots of beer and popcorn.
Oh! House rehab as opposed to something much less fun!
Phila--I'm sorry! My background is in biostatistics, specifically in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics, but also in safety trials of medications.
No need to apologize...it's flattering that you seem to think I occasionally sound like I know what I'm talking about! But whatever I know about biology comes from college classes in biology, marine biology, microbiology, and anatomy...plus a bunch of the toxicology stuff that inescapbly goes along with hazmat / environmental chemistry. Other than that, I just read a lot, 'cause I'm so interested in it.
Backslider--in those days, they were. I was wondering why they were so grateful to have sleeping bags on my living room floor. Maybe it was the food. I never left the kitchen that week.
"Just get up and go and leave the rapturists to persecute each other for the rest of their lives."
The problem is...they'll be persecuting us, not each other. The rest of us will be stuck here.
Oh, and Backslider? I allowed my husband to talk me into a 60" flat screen TV. I still can't believe I let this happen.
And there's still nothing good on.
Phila,
Nah, no reason. Just drifted across the radar, and it got me to thinkin' how Americans going completely apeshit nuts unneccessarily over what they don't understand
I hear ya. And the Mitnick case was one of those things that made me realize how easy it is to sort of soak up the official story by osmosis. Because I knew very little about hacking, or what he'd been accused of, I simply assumed he was a serious criminal whom they'd gotten dead to rights. When I heard the thing on the radio, it seemed much more like he'd been railroaded...he seemed eccentric, sure, but not dangerous.
The problem is...they'll be persecuting us, not each other. The rest of us will be stuck here.
I know. That's the problem. It would seem a mass exodus would be preferable. Then after 6 months, when the US is turned into a 3rd world country, we could come back.... or... something.
Shirty, there is always hope.
The battle we face is not confined to the borders of the USA, y'know?
There are stinkers everywhere.
You pay your money, and you take your choice, as they say.
The battle is global. It is archtypal. It is forever.
I do not get it. What is it about men and their electronics? And does size really matter, or is it all about features?
Squish, Costa Rica sounds marvelous. It's not really on the invasion list yet, so you should be OK. Regardless of other comments on this thread, I think most places will be OK if we break down. Even Mexico will look good, trust me.
I'd really hate to have to leave the US. Belfast is undergoing major urban renewal, but no matter what they do, the weather will always suck. I've gotten spoiled after a quarter century in LA.
Sarah Deere - Archetypal. Somehow that makes me feel better. It's so easy to view the attacks on decency and goodness as personal.
My background is in biostatistics, specifically in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics, but also in safety trials of medications.
I'd love to pick your brains on ecotoxicology sometime. I just wrote something the other day on the effects of human drug excretion on biosystems, which as I'm sure you know is an increasing problem. I was reading the other day about some city harbor that was measurably caffeinated!
Shirty, you're in the dregs of the dregs. A strong consideration should be made about relocating to a saner area. I pulled the plug on Arizona (my beloved spiritual home) because it just got too acidic, society there went from kindly conservative (1983) to hateful in 20 years.
Ecosystems, I mean.
I bought the biggest MP3 player you can get. It weighs 70 pounds and comes with a huge hand truck. The tires on that thing must be 14" inches in diameter. And the handles...we're talking zuchinis there.
RCB - Yeah, you've got to love a country that will educate its populace before even paving roads!
Phila--in Britain, a high concentration of antidepressant drugs is being found in some of the water supplies. I have to confess that I have never studied environmental toxicology, so as to measuring it, I'm not familiar with the parameters involved.
I fear I am cursed. Even at the University of Texas, my teacher is the head of Bush's election and re-election campaigns in 2000 and 2004. Right under Karl Rove. I fear I would bring it with me.
do not get it. What is it about men and their electronics? And does size really matter, or is it all about features?
Sallyh,
well, it's both, I fear....
SD
Shirty--nah, no way could you be traveling under a black cloud. That honor belongs to my second brother, who is a CPA. The poor guy's had the black cloud on his ass for most of his 43 years.
A very high percentage of the salmon in the last free-flowing strtch of the Columbia are female. Ther believe the fry may be switching genders because of the phermones used to disrupt insect reproduction in the local orchards and vinyards.
Proves beyond the shadow of doubt...stupidity is a family trait.
regards
.
Black clouds are for real...it's called "bad karma." Some people really do have it, you can see it happening to the same people over and over and over. Like the USA right now.
Phila--in Britain, a high concentration of antidepressant drugs is being found in some of the water supplies. I have to confess that I have never studied environmental toxicology, so as to measuring it, I'm not familiar with the parameters involved.
Sallyh
I'm mostly interested in what pharma companies are doing about it. I blogged the other day on the situation with carbamazepine , and in researching it I was flabbergasted to learn about some of the loopholes for pharmaceutrical contamination.
Time to turn in. 'Night, all!
I simply don't think any of this is sustainable. Politically, culturally, environmentally... and I can figure a thing to do about it.
Erm... I can't. Otherwise, there'd be no problem.
Reality Check Bouncer,
"I pulled the plug on Arizona...because it just got too acidic, society there went from kindly conservative (1983) to hateful in 20 years.
Same thing in Las Vegas too and in the same time frame as well. Repugs ruined the valley. Housing is skyrocketing, congestion on the side streets and every street off the main avenues are cul-de-sacs. Did I forget to mention that your power bill is rated by the amount of electricity you use, and its variable, they have a water patrol to make sure you're not wasting water, they put in catch-basins to pool the rain when it happens but the water just flows by it when it does.
Yeah, one party rule is great if you live on a parcel of land you access by dirt road and you pump your own well water. Oppps...the water district has all claim to water resources both above and below the ground.
regards
.
I don't belive it.
Meble kuchenne
Shirty - I recommend finding some good liberal folk. Then drink, or do whatever makes you feel better. Follow with venting and particularly good music and food. Keep looking for ways to make it better and enjoy yourself. Oh! And sleep is good, too.
You're correct, shirty. This is definitely not sustainable. Worst of all, I predict if things worsen, it's the places like Southeast Texas that will have the most shootings.
I'm not completely maudlin about what will happen, but I am convinced that the red states and the empowered attitudes in them will make them less civil if a really bad recession hits.
Maybe David Brooks will trade lives with me, since he loves the red state way of life so much.
Moad-Dib, it wasn't the water rules that got me, it was the foaming-at-the-mouth in everyday living that got me, the cutting in line, the scowls, the almost-run-down in parking lots, and the political rants CONSTANTLY by the wingnuts and their guns 'n Jesus hellfire crap. I just had it by early last year, and left.
Shirty and Squish,
Always hope. Never, never lose hope.
Really.
Read yourselves some Studs Terkel.
Truth is, Life has always been this way. TV gives us the Kraft Cheese, air-brushed version, which is such a FUCKING BIG LIE.
Life is not smooth, it is not perfect. It is full of lumps and bumps, and imperfect complexions. It ain't air-brushed. It is real. It's difficult, and full of contradictions, and choices, and failures, and successes. Ugliness and beauty. Opposites, always. And, poor humans suspended between them.
Embrace, love, live, keep fear as distant as you can, except when it's appropriate.
Hang in, children. It's a bumpy ride!! But, basically, a wonderful one.
I am grateful every day for (for example) color vision!!
Sallyh--
like that discourse on Y chromosone and remotes and ability to watch any kind of tv.
But let me ask: why did you allow the big screen in the house?
Sarah - Thanks! I guess we are half in escape mode and half in seek mode. I know I won't be able to disengage myself politically, even when I'm not physically in the US. Sure is hard to witness some things, though. With a 4 year old daughter, I'm seeking myself some truth and feel like maybe I can open up my soul a little bit more without the constant din of the US-culture war in my ears.
Squish, you'll find that the other countries are more like each other and the USA not.
They see us as outsiders messing up the earth. Make certain that you learn Spanish if not already speaking it, integrate with the locals, make SURE they know you're not one of "them."
Squish,
I know what you mean. In have grandchildren, ages 7 and 10, and I worry daily. Minute by minute, actually!
This culture war can be laid directly at the feet of the morally bereft GW Bush et al.
We will survive them, and it will woor out. Nature despises imbalance, and we will surface from these dark and foul waters, really!
Just have to hang in and do what we can do to turn the tide, if I may be so steeped in cliche!!
Now, it's time for bed. Hope you are headed that way yourself, and that your dreams are deep and sweet.
Best,
SD
Sweet dreams, free thinkers!
back at ya, Squish!!!
gnite SD
"but what if excess of love
bewildered them 'til they died"
but that was another easter, before the poets down here don't say nothin' at all (they just stand back and let it all be). we're toastin' the boys in the post office and the rebel countess.
power to the people (because only peolple know the power needs of the people).
OK, so let me recap the score:
Conservatives have killed:
Dan Rather
Eason Jordan
Tom Daschle
(And Soon to Be) Kofi Annan - http://tinyurl.com/5mk53
Liberals have killed:
(Soon to Be) Terri Schiavo
We understand your enthusiasm for her death. Nice to wine one every once in a while.
Way to be "Progressive." Keep up the good woork. There are infirms all over the Country that need to be put out of their misery.
Hmmmmm.....wonder what's in store for "Judge" Greer?
um, oops, peolple=people, and vice versa.
("i write it out in a verse
macdonough and mcbride
and connolly and pearse
now and in times to be
wherever green is worn
are changed, changed utterly
a terrible beauty is born")
Fox News 'Blocker' For Sale--A 'NY Times' Filter Next?
By The Associated Press
Published: March 25, 2005 6:00 PM ET
It's not that Sam Kimery objects to the views expressed on Fox News. The creator of the "Fox Blocker" contends the channel is not news at all.
Kimery figures he's sold about 100 of the little silver bits of metal that screw into the back of most televisions, allowing people to filter Fox News from their sets, since its August debut.
The Tulsa, Okla., resident also has received thousands of e-mails, both angry and complimentary — as well as a few death threats.
"Apparently the making of terroristic threats against those who don't share your views is a high art form among a certain core audience," said Kimery, 45.
Formerly a registered Republican, even a precinct captain, Kimery became an independent in the 1990s when he said the state party stopped taking input from its everyday members.
http://
www.editorandpublisher.co...t_id=1000855753
DIRECTIVE: ANY INTERFERENCE WITH THE WALL SCREEN IN THE HOME IS A CLASS A CRIME. ATTACHING ANY DIVICE INTERFERING WITH THE OPERATION OF THE WALL SCREEN IN THE HOME WILL BE PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.
For those of us who have pointed out the parallels between Islamic fundamentalists and "christian" fundamentalists consider the matter of forced divorce.
Google Nawal El-Saddaawi and Abu Zaid for more information.
SUGGESTION FOR CATHOLIC CHURCH OFFICIALS REGARDING SCHIAVO CASE
Michael Schiavo enjoys legal guardianship of Terri Schiavo because they are "married." But "Marriage," when performed in a church, is a religious sacrament - not a civil ceremony.
SInce Michael Schiavo has been living with another woman instead of his wife Terri for the past ten years he is, according to church doctrine, committing "Adultery."
SInce the church bestowed the sacrament of Marriage, the church can revoke it. I suggest the Catholic Church declare the marriage of Michael and Terri Schiavo to be ANNULLED
http://www.halturnershow.com/
ot --
Babylon's destruction, according to The Guardian, "must rank as one of the most reckless acts of cultural vandalism in recent memory."
Cheney chief of staff in running for Defense post?
RAW STORY
“A new candidate has emerged for the deputy secretary of defense post being vacated by Paul Wolfowitz. He is Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby, currently the chief of staff and national security adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney,” the Washington Times revealed in a somewhat overlooked paragraph earlier this week. “Other candidates include Stephen Cambone, the undersecretary of defense for intelligence, and Gordon England, the current Navy secretary.”
Libby, a close Cheney confidant, ranks at the top of the list of those believed to have leaked the name of undercover CIA operative Valerie Plame to conservative columnist Robert Novak. Plame was “outed” by Novak in a column in what critics saw as retribution for her husband’s refusal to toe the party line on nuclear fuel that the Bush Administration falsely claimed had been supplied to Iraq.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/in...index.php?
p=222
Somehow Stephen Cambone doesn't give me a warm cosy feeling either.
In the Bush Crime Family you can't rise until you're a "made man".
Speaking of Repub hypocrits and I'm sure this has been covered on this board, but what about Imus?
This fucking ole ex-druggie has the balls to bitch about a WSJ story that questions his Imus Ranch holdings and he goes off the deep end about the Journals unfair treatment of him.
This after the I-Whore got a nut daily over the Bill and Hilliary hatchet job done by the press and himself. What a disturbing coutry we live in.
EPT,
He's not only breaking Church Law, he's breaking Florida State Law.
Your hatred of God has blinded you to objective analysis.
There's more than anecdotal evidence that he has wanted her to die for quite some time. Additionally, his lawyer's donations to Greer will come back to haunt them both.
His behavior is crooked from the start: Schiavo's and Greer's. This is far from done, even after she dies.
tort reformist AFTER his own lawsuit - what a hypocrite
Fuck Imus.
Why that racist alchoholic is the "go-to" guy for every media whore is a mystery to me.
(I think I responded to my self with that.)
.
BTW EPT, there was no crime committed in the Plame Kerfuffle according to the NY Times.
Of course the Liberal Times will say anything to divert yet another scandal.
Good morning. Haven't perused the papers yet. Any word on Wolfie's girlfriend and her connection to Chalabi?
morning all liberals. oh, i said that nasty "l" word again!
There's more than anecdotal evidence that he has wanted her to die for quite some time.
That's why on Feb. 14, 1993 when his father in law burst into his daughter's room to demand a share of the money awareded to Michael Schiavo for loss of consort, Michael Schiavo was busy studying to become a nurse so he could take care of her himself.
Sunday Driver, haven't you ever been told it's a sin to tell a lie?
And you must be entirely ignorant of Cannon Law. At least one memeber of the marriage has to request an annulment and the other has to give evidence to prove that there wasn't a marriage to begin with. Stupid fundamentalists, you should go back to calling the Pope the Whore of Babylon. You will be as soon as the Catholic curch doesn't serve your temporary purpose anyway. Why not start now.
And last time I looked the nyt wasn't a criminal investigative unit of the federal government.
Hope you're not driving anywhere till you've sobered up a bit.
Does this mean I have to start drinking Starbucks.
We stopped listening to Imus years ago because he stopped being funny. Think of the millions he has raised for that ranch, then think they take, what 20 kids for a few weeks in the summer. Imagine what else could been done with that money. It is a monument to himself, and a lame attempt at some kind of atonement for past sins.
from Quiltsquito's starbuck's article:
"There are a lot of great conservative quotes, but oh well," she said. "I'm not surprised. I'm used to being under-represented."
damn that liberal media again!
In honor of Easter, I present an "inside baseball" meta-meta-meta sermon on the Death and Resurrection of Atrios.
And her eyes, I sent you an e-mail answering your question from yesterday!
Oh, and Sunday Driver, hope you caught this from last night. I'm rather proud of it.
If Terry Schiavo divorced her husband and married Randall Terry, she'd be Terri Terry!
Ha Ha (burp!)
Sweet Sue
If Terri Schiavo divorced Micael and married Randal Terry, she'd be the brains in that marriage.
EPTropy
Sorry, noraml people. I just had to get that off my chest. Now I've got to go feed the animals. Good morning.
NTodd--blogwhoring? so early in the am?
and will check email now.
MOrning Moonbats
If Terri Schiavo divorced Micael and married Randal Terry, she'd be the brains in that marriage. -
And here I've been trying for years to build that rimshot machine.
Greetings Moonbats and keepers of reality. Happy Easter.
NTodd--blogwhoring? so early in the am?
Dog woke me up with her "I think somebody I know is outside and I want to play" bark. Might as well whore!
NTodd - Uhm, you know you have been blogging too long when you start comparing Atrios to Jesus.
Barndog - don't mention the "G" word whatever you do.
NTodd - Uhm, you know you have been blogging too long when you start comparing Atrios to Jesus.
Boo-hiss! You're clearly a troll. How dare you criticize Atrios in his House?!
I kid you not. Clean sheets up.
Gotcha Quiltsquito.
Oh... oohney edthray.
Ach, I'm going back to bed. Fear not! I shall rise again...
I kid you not. Clean sheets up.
And the commenters were afraid but filled with joy...
How soon they forget!
"But, given the vehemence with which he has been fighting to prolong Terri's life, it is a little surprising to learn that Robert decided to turn off the life-support system for his mother. She was 79 at the time, and had been ill with pneumonia for a week, when her kidneys gave out. "I can remember like yesterday the doctors said she had a good life. I asked, 'If you put her on a ventilator does she have a chance of surviving, of coming out of this thing?'" Robert says. "I was very angry with God because I didn't want to make those decisions."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/
st...1077219,00.html
I wasn't going to revisit this but Atrios, check out Sunday Driver a couple of threads down. If you can track him you might be able to prevent a crime. He sounds like he's planning something.
Does anyone on the left understand the difference between a ventilator and a feeding tube? And if you do, do you understand the significance of that difference? Or are all of you too shallow and full of rage and hatred?
<I>Italics</I>
<B>Bold</B>
CJ, of course we do. Go see "Get Your War On" from last week. It's a perfect example.
Sue, thanks for the link. The more I read about Michael Schiavo the more convinced I am that he kept his hopes up as long as he could but that despite the deep love he obviously feels for Terri that he had to face the fact that she is hopelessly lost. No one, least of all a right wing greed ball, would have supported her through her severe eating disorder and kept up hope several years into her persistant vegetative state without deep love. I think his refusal to expose her condition to the publicity process speaks volumes too. He has my respect.
The more I find out about the Schindlers the more they seem like they've turned their daughter into a fixation and a money machine. I hope I'm wrong but it is how it looks.
The Republican Terri Schiavo Corporation are bottom sucking scum. Nothing more.
Charles Delay was not eligible for the Darwin Award because he had already reproduced and passed along the defective genes.
All of you who celebrate the death of Terry and compare this to Delay's father are sick. Karma comes around, just know when it happens, why it happens.
bkny:CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A church has withdrawn its support for a food pantry
Great comment - thanx! This is a perfect wedge issue for us. Someone should tell Dean.
Kat, the only people who are going to celebrate Terri Schiavo's death are the Republican-religio-fascists who will turn her into a fundraising trademark.
I am a caregiver of people with severe cerebral palsy and brain injuries. I have read some of the most insensitive garbage in some of these posts. Ms. Shiavo is not on a respirator and by all means is alive. An infant can't feed itself and until the late 80's it was thought that they did not have mature pain receptors. There were doctors that performed surgeries with only paralyzing medicines, no pain medications. Many of these babies died. You can't tell me that dehydrating a living being to death is not painful. This women is not "terminally ill" we are killing her. If this were my daughter, I would be fighting with every breath in my body.
Now I've seen everything -- an LGF thread with numerous perfectly level-headed comments, including by Charles himself, on both sides of the TS issue. Some extremism mixed in but a trivial amount by LGF standards.
William Provocative Hedgehog
I also went through that thread & I think it's a great sign for us that they aren't in lockstep with Frist, DeLay and Bush on this one.
mj, if you haven't been working even harder to defeat the Republicans' attack on everything decent around the world and thus saving people who have some hope of leading a real life, suck a catheter.
Good morning all, and happy easter -- in sd's sense of the holiday --
and amen to that, too, EPT.
But it's more than religious stereotypes. I'm talking about real political issues.
1.) Abortion
2.) Gay Marriage
3.) This Schiavo mess
The Vatican and the Christian coalition side with each other more than they oppose each other.
SWR
This is a good point but how many Catholics know that Fundies think Catholics are cult members?
I heard on NPR the answer to James Wolcott's question about how many people were in the throng of fascist vultures outside the hospice, most of the week it was a few dozen, it peaked at "about a hundred" yesterday. Not the turba that the cabloids were leading us to believe.
Those "franciscans" and Cardinal "close the churches" in Boston have done nothing for my opinion of the brown robes.
Hey, MJ, let's see your living will or directive which says you want every possible means used to keep you alive no matter what condition you are in or how poor your quality of life is. Come on, let's see it.
In fact, let's see every single one of these motherfuckers on TV produce their own living wills which state that they are to be kept alive by artificial means indefinitely, no matter what the cost to their family and society.
If they won't do it, then they should shut the fuck up.
You would think a situation like what he went through with his father would have created some empathy in him for what is going on with the Schiavo case.
I'm sure his father would have wanted DeLay to be a complete hypocrite:
"No pussyfooting around, Tom. Go for power and money, full speed ahead. I'll be dead. Lie through your teeth. Foment all manner of insane dissension. Just get the money. Best wishes, son. And don't die without making a complete Act of Contrition."
This is a good point but how many Catholics know that Fundies think Catholics are cult members?
I'm pretty sure lots of Catholics feel that Fundies are snake handling bigots. And worse. Snake handling bigots who are going to hell because they aren't members of the Church. Remember Mel Gibson's remarks about his wife? Mel doesn't want his wife to go to Hell, but until she gives up her Episcopal faith and joins the Catholic Church, well, it isn't Mel's call, but that's her fate.
The thing about DeLay's behavior is that it's a hypocrisy twofer:
Not only did he pull the plug on Dear Old Dad, Charles DeLay (who had more of his cerebrum left at the time than Terri does, by the way), but he later sued the company that made the couplings on the backyard tram that DeLay's dad and DeLay's uncle Jerry had built.
Then he turns around and, in finest Republican "I got mine, you can't get yours" fashion, tries to outlaw the very sort of laws his family used to get compensation from the coupling maker!
Waiting for MJ's comments condemning Tom DeLay and Robert for pulling the plugs on their daddies.
Oh, I forgot: It's OK, since they're Republicans.
Ms. Shiavo is not on a respirator and by all means is alive.
By all means?
Her brain activity has been flatlining for over a decade.
I guess if you dwell in RepublicanWorld then brain activity is an optional extra, if not actively discouraged.
CJ:
A ventilator provides O2 and the pressure to inflate the lungs...it gives someone oxygen when they are incapable of breathing on their own.
A feeding tube provides nourishment directly to the stomach (or the intestine...I'm not sure which type Mrs. Shaivo has) for someone incapable of swallowing/eating on their own.
Both provide requirements for life. There are specific physiological differences, but the bottom line is lack of either will cause death.
The main difference is how quickly death occurs.
Generally speaking, allowing someone to die who has a terminal illness, absent brain activity or a negligible quality of life is considered compassionate or humane. Hatred generally has little to do with it.
Did i miss anything?
Ms. Shiavo is not on a respirator and by all means is alive.
Disconnect the respirator, and it takes 2-5 minutes for the patient to die. For those few minutes the patient is by all means alive.
Disconnect the feeding tube, and it takes 1-2 weeks for the patient to die. For those few weeks the patient is by all means alive.
So...this is about timing?
OT
But I saw the "Sucker Delay is Such a Liar"...annd immediately thought "Sucker Mcs call me sire...i won't stop rockin til, i retire"
"freak accident", I know a friend of a friend who knows a cousin of a grocery clerk...............of a neighbour, that overheard Tom Delay say that he wish his dad dead. Tom Delay is a killer.....you get my drift.
I think it a perfect opportunity to make Dec. 14, Death with Dignity Day.
wow. just
wow
if ever there was just more reason for the families of people who are profoundly disabled to worry about being declared "not true human beings" then the post and some of the comments here that think a dying brain dead man on life support = a non-terminal/non-brain dead woman given food and water just underline the fear
who's next, people, on your list of candidates eligible for euthanasia due to having an "incovenient life?" Severely autistic? Low functioning Down's Syndrome? Quadraplegics?
Anyone you declare incapable of a "rich inner life"?
feh
I think we should all pony up and order a bunch of these coffee mugs to be sent to Tom DeLay's office as our gift to him:
http://www.giftmugs.com/sampler/...pocrite-
Mug.htm
Unfortunately, the order form on this website is ridiculously complex. And they're kinda expensive. Still, it would be a nice gesture...
Meadows
Darleen
A feeding tube inserted in the stomach or intestine is just as, if not more invasive as a respirator.
This case isn't about with-holding food to a disabled person, this is about an discontinuing an invasive medical proceedure that is prolonging biological functions of a woman that for all intents and purposes died about 15 years ago.
Now if your definition of severely disabled = 15 years in a vegetative state absent of brain function, then we have nothing to talk about. Your're simply wrong. Its not about a rich inner life...there is no inner life.
To assume any statements made here would in any way apply to the disabled is an outright lie.
What did Delay lie about exactly? Looks like little kids in a sandbox screaming "Liar, Liar!' again.
And all the wishing him dead - more fine examples of liberal/left tolerance and compassion.
Sick stuff.
If she was "absent brain function" then she would not be able to breath. Looks like the one absent brain function is poor Chuck there.
Let me explain.
DeLay, in at least two occasions documented in this thread, has made a decision in his personal life that directly contradicts the things he has said in public.
He joined with his family in a decision to disconnect his father's life-support, and then he viciously attacked Michael Schiavo for making the same decision.
He sued the company that made the bearings for his father's project, and then worked to limit anyone else's right to file such suits, or gain compensation for damages.
He's a hypocrite. It's not the lies; it's the hypocrisy.
"It's not the lies; it's the hypocrisy."
So then we agree - When Atrios said, "Delay is such a liar" the liar was Atrios. Thanks for confirming that his statement was nothing but a dishonest juvenile outburst. Par for the course.
As for the alleged "hypocrisy" (it's difficult to find a person on the left who really knows what that word means, it's simply used as an empty epithet) Delay's father was dying, Shiavo was not dying, until her feeding tube was pulled. The cases are not similar, you're comparing apples to oranges to score cheap political points.
You hate-mongers are really sick people.
Ah Ken...time to go read your neuro-anatomy and neuro-physiology notes again.
When someone uses the term "brain dead" or "absent brain function" they're usually refering to cortical or higher brain function. That's what's measured on an electroencephalogram (EEG), and from what I've read in the media, Mrs. Shiavo's has been flat (absent) for a long time (As well, I believe there was an MRI that shows she has virtually no cortex). This is the measure of conscious function, self awareness, experience, thought, and pain.
Now the brainstem can go on functioning long after the cortex is effectively dead, just as in Mrs. Shiavo's case. This can happen in ischemic injuries to the brain (which was what happened in the Shiavo case). The cortex needs a lot of O2, and a minor disruption of the supply can do irrepairable damage. The brainstem is a fair bit tougher.
The brainstem's function is purely mechanical...metabolic functions, heart rate, breathing...stuff like that. No pain, no thought, no awareness, no "experience", no suffering, nothing that could be called "thinking". The shell is functioning, but she's not "in there".
There is another type of coma. A blow to the head can cause the opposite to happen...the brainstem is severely injurred but the cortex can be relatively spared (but usually both are damaged). In this case control of breathing shuts down, but the conscious faculties may still be present, but dimished. These patients will need a respirator to breath, but despite appearing "unconscious" might be dimly conscious of what's going on, feel some pain etc...Sometimes this is called "locked in". Most of these patients die regardless of ventilator use, because the body can't deal with the injury, but as they expire, they might still be "in there" while functions shut down, unable to communicate with their care-givers.
It must be a horrible way to go.
Obviously, I can't say for certain, but that sounds like a possible description of the Delay case to me. I wonder if he knew his family OK'd the decision to withdraw the ventilator? I wonder if he "felt" (even dimly) his last breath?
I sincerely hope not, I can't imagine how frightening that might be, but it sure is more likely that Mr. Delay "experienced" his death a lot more than than Mrs. Shiavo ever will.
You're right though...how absent brain functioned of me for not making that explicitly clear.
Delay's father was dying, Shiavo was not dying
More lies from the Republican apologists.
According to the article:
The man in a coma, kept alive by intravenous lines and oxygen equipment, was DeLay's father, Charles Ray DeLay.
...
Doctors advised that he would "basically be a vegetable," said the congressman's aunt, JoAnne DeLay.
DeLay's father and Schiavo were both connected to life-support equipment.
The only difference is, no government official wedged himself into the decision made by DeLay's family, but DeLay jumped into the Schiavo case with slanderous, wild enthusiasm.
You hate-mongers are really sick people.
You're right, the Republicans are pretty sick. We're trying to show them the light though.
Its true that a ventilator is more advanced form of life support than a tube feeding but if Delay had given his father a chance and continued the ventilation he may have recovered from the acute phase to go on living in a vegetative state for another 15 or so years.
Someone with alot of time needs to search Public Records only, and match those Representatives who voted to pull the Schiavo case into Federal court (by overriding States Rights and trashing the Constitution) to their own 'right to life' issues. Mr. Schindler himself OK'd life support to be taken away from his mother. This is just too much. These people who are trying to make us pay for their personal problems and tell us what to do with our own bodies need to be shown their own hypocrisy.
"no government official wedged himself into the decision made by DeLay's family"
Delay's family reached consensus. Terri Shiavo's family did not, there is a dispute.
And the fact you apparently don't consider all the judges who have wedged themselves into the Shiavo-Shindler family dispute to be government officials is just plain loony.
The viscious hate-mongering of the left is just unparalleled. And from those who are always preaching about tolerance and compassion, the hypocrisy is thick.
The statement, "Delay's father was dying, Shiavo was not dying" remains true.
Let's see, Steve Talbert thinks it "trashes the constitution" to protect the constitutionally protected right to life in federal courts.
But I'll bet Steve does NOT think it "trashes the constitution" to protect 'rights' in federals courts that exist nowhere in the constitution, like Roe v. Wade, for example.
Congress is given specific authority in the constitution for regulation of the courts.
And all you liberals now preaching 'states rights'? Talk about hypocrisy! *lol*
Chuck Feney,
Thank you for your excellent description on the issue of cortical vs. brainstem function. However, the brain has more than the cortex and the brainstem. There is, in particular more to the cerebrum than the cortex.
Ms. Schiavo may still have a functioning midbrain in which case she still can feel emotions, etc., although she would not be concious in any way we cortically dependent concious folk can appreciate.
In that sense, the Rethugs are right (although her 'emotional responses' could also be automatically generated by the pons and cerebellum without any concious activity): she is, in some sense, concious and it is not ours to judge her quality of life. Moreover a feeding tube is not a ventilator: in some ways, it is more invasive, but it is also less "extra-ordinary".
That being said, the same principles that would make it wrong to remove a feeding tube if the patient would have wanted it otherwise (btw - where are the keep Terri alive crowd on the Texas Futile Care law?) also make it wrong to judge the patient's requests not to live in a PVS.
If we are to respect Terri Schiavo's right to live in whatever state of conciousness in which she now is, we ought to respect any previously communicated desire of hers not to live in such a state. While we may not agree with that desire from a moral perspective, they certainly are not the business of the state. Indeed, by not respecting the moral autonomy of a person to make decisions about their own bodies and lives, a state is anti-moral and taking away freedom in a most fundamental way.
It is fair for government to have gotten involved in the Schiavo case but not the DeLay case as in the Schiavo case there was a dispute as to what Terri Schiavo's wishes actually were. But it is the role of courts, not legislative bodies, to handle such disputes. The courts have weighed the evidence and the relevent case law many times and decided that Terri Schiavo would not have wanted to live indefinitely in a PVS.
As such, it is wrong for government to legislatively interfere with Terri Schiavo's wishes, especially with a private law. Indeed, it can be argued that such a law is a bill of attainder, one of the things over which we fought a revolution (is the pro-life crowd that un-American?).
I might say it is wrong for someone who has midbrain function to not have a feeding tube. Ken might think it is wrong. But what matters is how the due process of law determined what Terri Schiavo thought.
To not respect that decision is to not respect the law of the land or the moral autonomy of individuals. To not respect that position is hardly being pro-life.
And all you liberals now preaching 'states rights'? Talk about hypocrisy! *lol* - Ken
To be fair, neither side is being hypocritical on states rights.
Each side just has a different view of the concept.
Liberals believe, in accordance with the 9th and 10th ammendments, that states can expand rights and privaleges (e.g. gay marriage, right to toke up) beyond those protected by the federal government and moreover there are certain aspects of law which the feds have to keep their hands out of -- although the federal government, having the power of the purse over the states and power over interstate commerce is generally able to enforce its will over the states. The fed brow beating of states using these powers (which is how most federal laws beyond the scope of the feds' official constitutional powers are justified) is certainly not unconstitutional, no matter how much libertarians complain about it.
Conservatives, OTOH, seem to have an articles of confederation view of states' rights -- that it isn't the right of states to extend privaleges but rather that states have rights just as people do. Of course this view is not supported by the preamble of the constitution nor by the fact that the Union won the frickin' civil war, but neither is it inconstistent with a support of fed. involvement in the Schiavo case.
In general, on states' rights, both Rethugs and Dems. support them where it is convinient and oppose them otherwise. But neither of our views are hypocritical or even as ad hoc as they appear as we have a consistent philosophical framework in which they are embedded.
Of course, the Rethug view is one that is all about raw power and trying to reverse the result of the civil war, but it is actually not so hypocritical as one might think ...
BTW - on the issue of abortion - how come nobody brings up how restricting any ability of a person to make moral choices interferes with a person's ability to be moral? Isn't there a moral autonomy issue with abortion? Even if you do think abortion is wrong?
I mean WWKD? (What Would Kant Do?)
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clicked the link - leads to "Sorry, the page you requested is not available."
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