I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
right. people always vote against their self-interest...(wait...Bush...???)
No, an economist arguing that people would vote for policies which go against their own self-interest is a truly indoctrinated Republican hack.
Third, unsurprisingly.
Glad to know I'll be able to take a class from him next year. And just like when I had the chance to take a class from Summers, Sandel, and Tom Friedman this year... I'll do something more useful with my time.
as it stands, that's a good description of the rethug lower-end white base...voting out of their economic interest, voting for hatred uber alles.
Most people don't even know what their self-interest truly is.
the moon must be in tapioca..or fruit salad.....
I certainly have no gravitas, and those who do? Perhaps they are asleep or having Other Lives!
All economists are truly bizarre.
Except home-economists.
Most people don't even know what their self-interest truly is.
When in doubt, I just go with "Brand-name items at LOW, LOW PRICES!"
And, of course I just vote for the candidate who loves Jaysus more. Makes things cut-and-dried.
My question is this: if the retirement age is to be raised, wouldn't that necessitate more jobs? But if no new jobs are being created, and there's no SS, then what are we supposed to live on?
I'd like to think this is an appropriate question for an economist.
Maybe it's me or the websites I visit, but is ANYONE thinking the US economy is doing well or is likely to recover in any way that helps an average person out in the near future? Also, since I don't have the kind of brain that functions properly when contemplating economics, will rising fuel costs dramatically increase the chances of inflation making the economy much worse?
Squish--I don't think the economy is doing well at all. I certainly am not seeing any indications of recovery. According to St. Paul Krugman, when oil reaches $68+ per barrel, it's crying time.
squish, I think the thinking people probably don't think the economy is doing well. As far as the fuel prices increase, the big oil companies are probably having a field day. I doubt anyone else is enjoying it. The poor lackies at the gas stations have to take the flak as people come in complaining, yet they have to increase because of the companies that sell them the gas. It's just an ugly cycle. I filled up tonite at $2.07 a gallon and it cost me $19.75. I had to fill up before it goes up again... which I think it will.
Yup, Sallyh, I'm thinking about crying... soon.
OldWhiteLady--it's up to $2.47 in my LA neighborhood. Almost $24 to fill my Toyota Corolla.
Most people don't even know what their self-interest truly is.
I do, however, know what my Special Purpose is...
sallyh,
That's what I seem to be hearing all over, yet noone really seems to be talking about it. I just find that puzzling. And I read projections of $105 per barrel during the summer. One of my sisters, a teacher, said she's not even going to bother getting a summer job because she won't be able to afford to drive to it even if she gets one. Where's the tipping point? I'm getting scared that by the time folks realize it's so bad, it will be all but over.
Today here in small town northeast Texas, the lady at the local gas station told my brother-in-law to fill up midday because (after the 8 cent rise in price overnight) it was going up later in the day. I've been here 2 weeks and I think gas prices have risen 25 cents.
Squish--I don't know what the tipping point is going to be, but I've stopped asking how low the floor can sink. Every time I think we've sunk as low as we can go, the Republicans turn around and surprise me.
I hate surprises.
squish,
IEA to call for an emergency oil plan
In a draft of the report circulated to governments and seen by Expansión, the Financial Times' Spanish partner, it suggests dramatic measures, such as reducing motorway speed limits by 25 per cent, shortening the working week, imposing driving bans on certain days, providing free public transport and promoting car pooling schemes.
I can't see bush implementing any of these proposals.
We're fucked.
I've tried to eliminate the word "unbelievable" from my vocabulary because I noticed that I was using it all the time. At some point, everything becomes believable.
April 1 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil and gasoline surged to all- time highs on speculation that rising demand may outpace U.S. refinery production this summer and strain global oil supplies.
Increasing fuel use and refinery maintenance have cut U.S. gasoline supplies during the last four weeks. Oil surged yesterday after Goldman Sachs Group Inc. analysts predicted that oil could touch $105 a barrel. Petroleos de Venezuela SA said yesterday that it would shut the world's biggest refinery for as much as a week.
``Prices have been rising because of the overall tightness of the market,'' said Aaron Kildow, a broker at Prudential Financial Derivatives, LLC in New York. ``OPEC has boosted production to meet growing demand, leaving little spare capacity. The Goldman Sachs report and the refinery news from Venezuela have scared traders, adding to the rally.
Gasoline riots anyone?
Central--no, only sissy Democrats implement such measures. Not big he-man Republicans.
CS -
I read that article, too. Sort of amazing that something like that is so under-the-radar for everyone I encounter on a daily basis. I just know that it will devastate so many families to have fuel prices jump so quickly.
While we're discussing fuel, has anyone been foodshopping lately? I can't believe how much food prices have shot up in recent months.
I can barely remember the gas lines in the 70s. I can't imagine how it will be now, given how people seem so much more volatile if/when real controls must be implemented.
Please, sages, tell me it can all serve some greater good. On a bright note, the city of Denton, Texas, has begun to use biodeisel for its fleet and actually plans to use methane from the local landfill to fuel the biodiesel production facility they are building. On a dark note, too little, too late?
Speaking of self interest, do you think that people will be smart enough to make a connection between rising oil prices and profits and the gang of oil bandits that run the country?
Nope.
The ironic thing is that Mankiw's Principles text really is quite excellent.
sallyh-
Well, if fuel costs go up, the transportation charges will increase. That's the inflation thingy again, right? Everything becomes more and more expensive.
I've been telling my dad to get busy on that garden.
we are surprised by all these rising prices.....why?
This is what Bush hath wrought, and will continue to.
It was clear as could be, what would happen.
But, God-DAMN, is he tough on terrarists, or what????
sporty-
I don't know. This is my first time living in small town America (red state, even) in a long, long time (read: not long enough). Everyone here seems to be too busy with work, kids, etc. to pay attention to anything that is not pushed in their faces. It's really quite frightening to me. I don't think they will make that connection, though they might take it out on "the government" verbally. I just hope they realize who is in control of "the government".
Not to mention that the classical economic model of rent control is based upon a bunch of silly assumptions.
The more realistic Lee Friedman model shows rent control isn't as bad as most economists are trained to believe.
Sporty--no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the US populace.
no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the US populace.
Sallyh, Countess Aerohen
It's funny...because it's true! Or, it's sad because it's true. I just don't know.
ha ha - Sarah, you're a riot
While we're discussing fuel, has anyone been foodshopping lately? I can't believe how much food prices have shot up in recent months.
Sallyh, Countess Aerohen | Email | Homepage | 04.02.05 - 2:15 am | #
Sallyh - I can't say that I have. I did notice that the Pizza buffet that we go to for lunch once in a while has increased their price for buffet, twice, within the last 6 months.
and speaking of gas prices - I have to admit, now, how happy I am that I don't have an SUV.
I just hope they realize who is in control of "the government".
squish
It won't hurt to remind them. Make the connection for them. Point out that it's not a coincidence that we elected oily men to run the country and now the oil companies are going to profit while the rest of the nation suffers.
Don't drive me. I'm an SUV!
If there's market power on the supply side of rental housing then rent control is not necessarily a bad thing even from an efficiency point of view, though that depends on the numbers. It's supported from the equity or fairness point of view, rather than the efficiency point, in any case.
But people do indeed choose against their own narrow self-interests sometimes. Economists tend not to believe that but it happens, though often to benefit someone else the person loves.
A bunch of green onions has reached $.69 here in San Francisco. I don't know if the price of green onions is an infallible harbinger of catastrophic inflation, but I think it's just the sort of significant detail that indicates that the economy is not acting quite as it should.
I'm off to bed Moonbats.
Be well ya'll.
Oily men.
heh.
Hey batties--ready to conk out.
I've got $10 on 2.30 p.m. Rome time tomorrow for JPII's final journey.
I'm not certain it has to do w/intelligence of the US populace. I think it has more to do with how peoples' lives are structured. And how we still have way too much to lose to start questioning gov't, which is time-consuming beyond imagination. It takes a great deal of time and effort to question and bring to heel our so-called "elected" representatives.
I do believe it has to do w/the "how much do we have to lose" thing. People rarely act until they have nothing left to defend, nothing left to hoarde, nothing left to protect, besides their families and their own person.
Loss tends to be slowly incremental, like the frog put in cold water and gradually brought to boil, and to eventual death.
This is where I believe we are now.
And I despise those in "power" who have brought us here. Despise, because we invested them w/our trust, and they have betrayed us profoundly.
SD
Bibamus makes an excellent point about Mankiw's skewed assumptions and political tin ear in his casual and indifferent acknowledgement that under the Bush SocSec plan, people actually won't do better, in terms of cash return, than they would under the current system. But it's interesting--check this out from that nauseating NYTimes article this week about our "impishly fun" president:
At an event in Denver last Monday, [Bush] mused that sending out quarterly statements for the individual investment accounts he wants to add to Social Security could encourage people to pay more attention to government but then chuckled that investors might conclude from tepid returns that "maybe we ought to change presidents or something."
Setting aside the many other revealing, and insane-making, aspects of that asinine statement, note how it also seems to be a sideways acknowledgement, almost as if Bush can't help himself from revealing the truth his propaganda labors to keep hidden, of Mankiw's assumption--that investment returns in fact will probably be lower than current social security payments. He also suggests, again almost despite himself, that people will probably be pissed about it when they find out. Though of course by then it'll be some other president's problem.
So in a way, Bush is actually telling the truth: vote for my plan, he tells his hand-picked crowds, even though we both know it makes no economic sense. But at least you'll have the satisfaction of owning that decline in your personal income.
I was thinking of the "frog in increasingly hot water" analogy all day while holding all this in my mind. It seems so apt.
I guess I am going to at least be able to enjoy a bit of schandenfreude watching hummers pull up to the gas pumps this summers and paying triple figures to fill up their armored vehicles. But only a bit, it's going to hurt (almost) everybody.
WendellGee-
How crazy is that? He can actually tell the truth and people STILL don't get how much he really, truly, madly, deeply doesn't give a flying fig about them or their families? Astonishing, but not unbelievable.
Bush has so many land mines laid down for his successor (that is, after he himself is long gone), that we will be reeling from what he hath wrought for a very long time to come.
And we will be kept busy blaming the wrong person - which will be the prez at the time these bombs explode.
If there were a photograph of Evil, it would be that of the BFEE.
I wish them perpetually bleeding and itching hemorrhoids, among other mundane horrors.
Econ refresher?
If I felt the need to get an econ refresher -- and it wouldn't be a bad idea, if only to combat the likes of Greg Mankiw and his fellow suupply siders, a good place to start would be Paul Krugman's new textbook, Microeconomics (October 2004), and avaiable at amazon.com, but pricey at $85.
Krugman's tome on macroeconomics will be forthcoming sometime in the near future.
In the meantime, the following (less pricey) Krugman books are worthy of the reader'r attention:
The Great Unraveling: Losing Our Way in the New Century
Peddling Prosperity: Economic Sense and Nonsense in an Age of Diminishing Expectations
Krugman does a wonderful job of deconstructing econ theory and statistics for the lawperson.
And supply-side econ is simple -- just take gobs of taxpayer dollars and supply the rich and super rich with more than they could possibly want and then some...and then some more!
Sweet...if you're in the investor class.
I am, at least, holding out hope that History will recognize the awful, craven, soulless nature of this administration.
Maybe I can handle some econ after 5 weeks (or much longer) in Costa Rica. I'm taking something by David Sedaris and "Reading Lolita in Tehran" this time. Any other recommendations? I'm desperate for something more uplifting thoughts that the US economy going down the toilet.
I wager the Pope pulls through with a complete recovery and continues to linger.
yeah, history will reveal. Fat lot of good it does us all living through it.
Call you represntatives in congress. Write them. E-mail them.
It's not totally an exercise in futility.
And send prayers up that GWB will reveal himself on film as being the soulless piece of shit that he is.
Sarah Deere-
I feel like I'm living in DC again. I don't really have a home in the US anymore. We were living in Maryland and I was usually proud of my reps. Now we're using my parents' address while we're living outside the US. Who represents me now? I'm thinking that I should at least take up some staffer time of the Texas crowd, but blech!
and, oh, yeah, may the pope die in relative peace, which is more than the old fucker deserves.
Get it on.
There are so many more, who are so much more deserving than he is.
Dancing around in rich robes for who knows how long. Silk undies? Who knows what kind of skivvies the pope wears?
Fer chrissakes. Blind nuns stitching gold and silver threads into papal vestments. For centuries.
And our payback has been.....what???
Oh, Jesus in a soap opera. What in the world have we been thinking?
So tired. Parents live in Texas, of course.
Ô¿Ô
Well, he's "clinging to life", doncha know.......
there will be no bush successor for many years...the imposition of martial law will suspend all presidential elections.
much as i hate the unfolding scenario, boy do i relish the idea of all the rethug bubbas going to the poorhouse because they were too ignorant to figure out that they bushits were gangsters and deep into their pockets. well, no sanctuary now.
their children will eventually become cannon fodder. their pockets will have been picked. they will have no socsec.
but the demented will probably still be voting for the bushits because they avow support for anti-abortion, because they want to repudiate nature's way - death.
utopian dementia.
dear lord, please give us a good dose of global thermonuclear war. the only way i can see that we shall roust the cockroaches from the system.
squish...there are some fine places (and people) in TX, like anywhere else.
Rally.
Fight for the US, wherever, wherever the opportunity presents. But fight for the US that is inclusive, that perhaps has never before publicly acknowledged that it is inclusive.
Know that GW Bush and the entire BFEE is so anti-US, that it is shameful and perhaps traitorous.
These fucking people are criminals, and I hope heads roll (figuratively, on my better days) soon.
You are young. You must hold to your courage and your rage.
I'm an old fuck. I've got plenty of rage, but not so much time left, and not as much energy.
I've given up all hope. For the last 3 years, you guys have came up with one after another that, 'finally, the American people have to wake up after this one.' And.they.never.do. So I don't think they ever will anymore. But you can bet they'll be causing us grief when the shit hits the fan. I've never had a lower opinion of them.
Well...Thomas Frank explained and documented it well in "What's the Matter with Kansas?" and Karl Rove has made an incredible career out of getting people to vote against their own self-interests.
But not altruistically of course.
Pretty disappointing US jobs report this morning - just 110k new jobs, with Feb's gain revised down. The long-term average would be about 220k, and the long-term expansion average (excluding recession periods, that is) is around 360k. Gains weren't broadly distributed across industries, either. Factories lost jobs - as did temp firms, not a good sign. (Temp employment frequently leads broad employment trends.) Wages gained slightly after stagnating last month, but now they're just keeping up with inflation rather than lagging it. The household survey numbers looked better - unemployment dropped to 5.2%, the employment/population ratio (EPR) rose 0.2 points (but is still well below its 2000 peak). But there too, gains weren't broadly distributed; women did worse than men, and most educational groupings were flat or down on their EPRs.
Really! How long must we wait for the pendulum to swing back to the left? God! I'd settle for center at this point. Honestly, the thing that scares and befuddles me the most is that people are not paying attention or simply don't care.
I care so much that it's frustrating, which is why I spend all this late-night/early-am time here, just to realize that I'm not the only one. I'm actually hoping to convince The Husband to return to the US to volunteer for a campaign next year. I might explode if Dems don't make some headway.
Ô¿Ô and Albert,
Believe me, please. I understand the seductive pull of the undertow.
However, I believe in balance. I think there's a reason that positive/negative is apparent in nature, and I believe that has relevance to human life, human behavior.
It is, of course, always possible that human beans will be the ones to fuck this completely up by going so off-balance as as to cause the complete collapse of life as we have known it on this poor planet.
But, precisely because I do believe in balance, I can't indulge in the seduction of negativism. I happen to believe it's my responsibility to hold up the end of life, of survival, of...what??? Prevaling over the sheer nastiness and destructiveness of the BFEE, for only one example.
I can't, in any conscience, give up.
Please, don't you give up, either. Might as well go down swinging, eh?
SD
'finally, the American people have to wake up after this one.' And.they.never.do. So I don't think they ever will anymore.
I am so with you on that.
I don't think they'll ever wake up.
However, I believe in balance. I think there's a reason that positive/negative is apparent in nature, and I believe that has relevance to human life, human behavior.
I think if things don't change quickly we're going to see something really terrible happen.
I keep having visions of post-war Berlin.
Agreed, will never wake up.
Raise hell, do not go quietly into the night.
Die with the weight of a mountain.
Fatalistic, I know.
Well, goodnight beautiful moonbats. I'll miss you guys for the next few weeks. Maybe I can nudibranch-blog from Costa Rica in a couple of weeks. Sleep well.
yeah right -- it we only taught more economics in school...
Children, it has ever been thus. Sometimes, in history, we get a Hitler, we get a GWB. We will survive this - or we will not. In the meantime, live.
Maintain your sense of humor.
Don't let these wretched fucks take away from you any more than you are willing to give or unable to keep them from taking.
Hold tight what you can. Continue to do what you can do.
Love each other. Love (not to be facile) is the greatest enemy of what these fucks hope to accomplish. No lie.
Hang tough.
SD
squish, enjoy Costa Rica.
Blessings on your head.
SD
Do ya think chimpy would have an easier "sell" of his Social Security scam and bamboozle tour if more people took an economics class?
Based on my experience with this curriculum and the way it is presented in high school textbooks -- most certainly!!!!
Here's a 'letter to the editor' that's in this morning's paper. I'm so sick of fundies, the same DeLay ones who rubber-stamped torture at Abu Garib, lecturing me about anything.
Denying water, food to Schiavo was wrong
Jewell Douglas
Shreveport
I was reading in the Bible that Jesus said, "I was hungry and you gave me no meat; I was thirsty and you gave me no drink," that what was done to the least, was done to him. Those responsible for allowing Terri Schiavo to die by denying her food and water need to know they will pay for their actions. The Bible teaches that whatever you reap, you will sow. What goes around comes around. All of that comes fresh from the Bible. That was mighty wrong what they did to her. People go to prison for doing all sorts of things, and they are given three meals a day and water. This lady couldn't even get water and food, and she had done nothing but become sick.
Why aren't Delay, chimpy and jeb proclaiming we need to stick feeding tubes and use extraordinary means to save the Pope? Do they need to wait until his brain is more fully atrophic? Shouldn't someone be suing? Where are the mobs of people protesting? Why isn't congress taking action"? WHERE SHOULD I BE SENDING MONEY?!?!?!?!?!?!
Inquiring minds want to know...
The Pope just needs to be bled and have the leach treatment.
" This lady couldn't even get water and food, and she had done nothing but become sick."
This lady was bulemic. She had a heart attack. She, for all intents and purposes, died. She was kept alive artificially, for 15 yrs.
These fucking people wouldn't know Jesus if he came up and bit them on each nipple.
Fuck them. You know?
(sigh) I am up late, and no one else is. Ah, well, I'll go talk to my cats!
If anyone else is up, sleep well when it pleases you to do so.
SD
I think the ignorant fundies have been emboldened. Their obvious idiocy doesn't seem to bother them anymore. They believe their superstition is supreme, now. They've built up a huge fundie culture and infrastructure out there under the radar. It will take at least 2 decades to counter it even if we had the American people's attention, which we don't, and I know we don't have the time.
Ô¿Ô ,
I hate to say this because it sounds stupid and ridiculously optimistic. But, I'll say it anyway (more fool, me).
Fundies do NOT make up the majority of the peeps in the US of A. They are just the most vocal, the squeakiest wheel, currently.
I honestly believe their fundie hysteria is going to scare most people to pieces, and that most people will ultimately shun and reject them.
What are they really offering? Whatever it is, it ain't much fun in this life - which, really, is the only life we know - and that pertains to all of us. No one has yet come back from the dead and said, wow, you oughta see Heaven!!! What a trip!!!
Nope....
No wonder I'm in bed at this time even on a fri/sat nite/morn.
well, before...nevermind
So serious and full of your sorrow and worry. IT'S the weekend. Time to enjoy.
Take a break, breath the air, listen to the birds, enjoy the spring wild flowers. Anything but this obsession with how fucked up things are. THINGS HAVE ALWAYS AND WILL ALWAYS BE FUCKED UP! Doesn't mean you have to fix it or wallow in it.
Get a happy life, dammit!
If you're waiting till everything is just the way it's supposed to be and it's all good and fair till your gonna feel OK, well you're fucked.
So get over it.
.
Ô¿Ô ,
g'night.
May you sleep in sweet slumber and have only the very best of dreams.
SD
(apologies for raving on)
Totally OT, but...
When did CNN become the All-Religion Channel? Surely there is SOMETHING going on SOMEWHERE in the world...but all the talk about is the pope, and all that's on the ticker on the bottom of the screen is recycled Terri-news.
*sigh*
Sarah Deere
Rants are good. Wait I'llcome to bed with you...
Good early morning, all. I think I'm awake.
People go to prison for doing all sorts of things, and they are given three meals a day and water.
Ô¿Ô, you can pair this up with "if you starve an animal to death you go to jail but it's ok to do this to Saint Terri..." as two Rove talking points I've heard in my red-state rag LTE section at least a half-dozen times in the last two weeks.
They're just fuckin' robots, these people.
I wanna get in on the dead pool!!!
My pick is twilight, sound of the Angelus, Rome time.
Thanks for everthing JP2...glad ya finally woke up about South American Death Squads. Better late than never.
Good morning moonbats.
Wonder what egregious news was ignored during the all pope death watch last night. Usually I can pick it up here. But other that oil possibly rising to over $100.00 as per Bear Stearns, there does not seem to have been a Friday night news dump. Hmmmm. I don't believe it.
QL, sometimes one is simply afraid to look.
I don't know. It seems that people often vote against what an impartial observer would assume to be their self=interest, especially if they can use their vote to hurt someone else. It doesn't improve the life of some poor slob in Ohio or Kansas one whit to vote against letting gay people get married, yet some did exactly that. I'd vote to raise taxes on upper income brackets and to raise the cap on SS taxes, even though that would, at least in the short run, result in my bringing home a smaller paycheck.
Kudlow thinks people not gobbling up stocks are morons. The country and the markets are in great shape and he just doesn't understand why we should worry about our wonderful capitalist country.
Interesting article from the LA Times, here, re how the xtian right isn't running the repuke party, the neoconservatives instead are playing the xtian right for fools.
The article explains the Abramowitz broohaha thusley. Two Indian tribes. Tribe 1 is making gobs of money from a casino. Tribe 2 is poor and decides they want gobs of money too, so they apply for a casino license. Tribe 1 says, uh oh, there goes our profits, so they hire Abromowitz to convince the state legislature not to issue a license to Tribe 2. Abramowitz hires the devil, Ralph Reed. Reed gets his fundies in a dither about the evils of gambling, and the xtian loons start a letter writing campaign to their reps telling them not to give Tribe 2 a license. Bobo claims this is going to be huge. I don't see it yet.
You know Hecate, we have frequently had to pay the ATM and never particularly minded. We were just happy to to be making the bucks and figured the taxes were only fair if we wanted to leave a workable nation to our offspring.
Moonbats,
I am STILL trying to rectify the White House inspired whitewashing of their egregious behavior leading up to war.
I REMEMBER what they did and said: I was shocked at the time and am still in awe of the whore press for their failure to confront them the first time; then to let them do it again via this report is simply unexcuseable.
This - and this alone - will be the death of freedom in this country. For if the people are not informed of what their government is doing; then there is little chance of them ever understanding what is happening. Without understanding, we are no more than lambs being led to slaughter.
Now if we had any kind of press at all, there would be major stories about the hike in oil prices and how that is going to impact the economy. Instead, we have the pope death watch following immediately on the heels of the Schiavo circus. Amy Goodman had it right. Three to 5 dozen protesters received the full press treatment, dominating the airwaves for almost two weeks, while millions of protesters against the illegal, unjustified war in Iraq hardly merit a mention.
First let me say what a wonderful thoughtful insightful thread this has been, reading every single posting since rising at 4:12 a.m. CST. Good writing on serious topics.
Now for my two cents worth. The news on the show trials (Jacko, Miss Savannah, et al) and the death watches (Johnny Cochran, Mrs. Schaivo, Pope) and the coming battle over Judges (nuclear option) are nothing but preliminary bouts for the main event...Ta Da! We have the economic collapse of Bush's Um-airika.
My little mantra is this. Nothing will ever shake the faith of the born againers in St. Boy George and Republicans. Denial of reality is in their DNA. George is their invisible man in the sky brought to earth. So be it.
But the mass non-voting middle is about to rise up. When they can't afford to buy their made-in-China trinkets at Wal-Mart anymore, nor put food on their families, well, that's when they vote. About every 50 to 75 years, when greedy Rethug policies have spent all the assets and borrowed to the hilt and it all comes crashing down. They vote. Same as it ever was. And none of us escapes the pain when Cap'n Bush sinks his fiscal Titanic with all on board.
The only silver lining is George, like that other lyin' Texass president, LBJ, will spend his after- presidency-life in shame and internal exile. And the neocon thugs will be buried in a political cave for another 40 years.
I saw a hint in 1992, when the union halls were filled with guys sitting around (and a few ladies) no work to be found, who were only too glad to register to vote and then spend the day walking precincts for a fun lunch of beer and pizza and 20 bucks. Sent them out in groups of two and three, one driver, two walkers. They came back tired but thrilled that they were striking back.
Those days uphold my faith in American democracy, the economic common sense of our people. too many have the luxury right now of voting social issues like Teri and family values because they're stil living on the fiscal float. They won't have any luxuries in '06 and '08. they'll be voting the economy, again, stupid. It almost makes me feel sorry for Bush and the political deluge he's about to face. Well not really. any way, that's my 200 words, worth about two cents.
'
Good post daver9.
I still believe we need a leader and I don't see one. Where is John Kerry for christ's sake. He's gonna have to do more than send out a few emails if he wants me to get excited about his presidential ambitions.
daver9,
Good post, I only hope it is not too late when people realize they have been sold a bill of goods.
The problem is that they have really and truly hurt our country and our financial situation.
And the difference between now and when you referenced is that the media is still reporting that everything is fine in America. (and Iraq for that matter) Until people realize the dire straits they have entered, there will be no change.
morning all...
but, but, but...won't people finally wake up and see that what they are reporting and what is actually happening are polar opposites?
i mean, i realized it, and i'm not the brightest bulb on the tree.
i'm just afraid, that if & when people do finally realize, this will be a third world country and we will have no way of climbing out of the shithole they put us in.
Her Eyes,
Sadly, I think you are mistaken; as is daver9. Look around you and see what you see. At my school the Republican Bitch is trying her best to get everyone excited about American Idol. People are still posting little messages about how Michael killed Terri and on and on.
They have no ability to discern information. They do not feel confident in their own ability to perceive and so they are marching to the coporate media's happy tune.
The list of wrongs committed by these cretins is amazing: yet none are even being seriously questioned. Look at the Plame Affair if you doubt this.
I wish and hope that things will get better, but I do not believe that the current regime will relinquish their hold on America without a fight. Look at Ohio, I believe they stole the election again. Does anyone care? Is this being reported?
But on the bright side of things, I seem to have managed to get the computer free of that heinous spyware my kid allowed on and it seems to be humming merrily at this point.
I don't think it will matter what the media says once all prices start to increase due to the rising cost of oil. When folks can't afford to pay their monthly cable bill because food, energy, etc. prices shoot through the roof, things will begin to change. I'm not saying it's going to be pretty for any of us, but I agree with daver9.
well, folks, i like to be hopeful. i like to feel optimistic. good feelings, those.
however, it is getting harder and harder.
i understand daver9's point of view, and history has shown us this course in the past. this is probably the best of the outcomes i have pictured: that the masses will wake up, smell the chickens, and realize that we have been royally fucked.
on the other hand, i also see dwd's perspective. people find it easier to not think, and let the teevee do their thinking for them. they are more interested in the ghoulishness of death than in the raping of social security because they don't understand the economic ramifications of such a proposal. so rather than stretch the brain cells to think a little, it is easier to watch reality teevee, and gasp over the pope.
mer
I sincerely hope that are right: but for now I remain skeptical and depressed.
I wish and hope that things will get better, but I do not believe that the current regime will relinquish their hold on America without a fight. Look at Ohio, I believe they stole the election again. Does anyone care? Is this being reported?
=================================
No doubt in my mind but that the election was stolen. I lurked a lot yesterday at work. Usually when I do that I get pissed that I am restrained from posting. Not yesterday. Everything that needed to be said was being said. I really had nothing new to add. Alas, I feel that way today. We are preaching to the choir here (and TS). Still I suppose it is important to keep on stating what should and would be obvious if we had a decent press. But it sure does feel like we are pissing the wind sometimes.
I must say I'm kind of perplexed at claims that rising gasoline prices will cause the US economy to "tank" (boom-boom). Gas prices here in Australia are much higher in real terms than in the USA (although the gap is shrinking because of the falling US dollar). When I visited the USA a few years ago I was shocked how cheap petrol was. I know that oil underlies more in the economy than just personal commuting, but the same holds for us too. Why would it be such a huge problem if you started paying as much for petrol as the rest of the world?
Anybody think that history will repeat itself with a wave of antisemitism in the US or is that finally an argument that is gone forever?
Culturally "most everything" is being viewed through the eyes of the fundamentalist Christians.
So as the economic picture deteriorates and the Middle East flares up will the public look at the Bush administration, see the face of the jewish neocon as instigating and profiting, and place the blame there?
Australian Reader,
Yes, I believe our economy is based upon cheap fuel. If the oil prices continue to rise, it will result in a massive depression. There is no doubt of that in my mind.
Listen, there is only so much money available. When fuel rises dramatically, that amount of money available is reduced correspondingly. I guess it is the perception of America that might be causing you this question. In truth, yes there are people with lots of money who will not be hurt. But many many Americans are barely hanging on financially with their lifestyles paid for on borrowed money. If they cannot pay the piper . . . .
australian reader, most Americans feel it is a god-given right not to have to pay much for a gallon of gas.
Why would it be such a huge problem if you started paying as much for petrol as the rest of the world?
=======================
Part of the reason your gas is so expensive is because of taxes. The US doesn't tax gas at the same high rates as most other countries. The taxes in turn are used to pay for services. Instead, our high prices serve only to enrich the already obscenely rich.
back later--errands.
have a lovely morning.
But on a beautiful Saturday Morning, let's just relax a bit.
Spring
As the winter's winds lose their fury and the light breezes begin their flight from the south to the north, the sound of the season's change is the drip, drip, drip of spring. In Michigan, the change of the seasons is always accompanied by some sound. In the autumn it is the rustle of dry leaves as the bitter winter wind - the hawk - begins its restless wanderings. In the winter it is the sweep of the shifting snows mingling and twisting in the air as they drift down to cover the earth. The sound of the whispering winds colored with the downy flake is unforgettable. In the spring it is the constant sound of winter melting away, The incessant drip heralding the change.
The snow piles, which only a few days ago were as strong and impressive as mountains, are quietly transformed into broken remnants of the mighty storms. Objects which were left out in the cold before the storm's onslaught are recovered. As the piles drift away, flotsam from the winter's storms appear: a lost shovel, a child's ball, and various other remnants of the fall season. On my street the six bags of leaves my neighbor attempted to forget about, suddenly made their appearance last week. Sitting squat and black against the earth, they served as a reminder of unfulfilled promises.
White snow which once drifted immaculately down, pure and pristine, has been sullied and muddied with the earth in a variety of ways. Now, it is black and feeble. Not really snow at all but some permutation which belies its once dominating strength. It sits there impotent, as it slowly drips into the storm drains to be cast onto the land for purification. Drip, drip, drip: the sound of spring.
Now, the night is alive with the sounds of promises. Promises of warm days, green grass, and colorful flowers to dot the landscape again. Soon the pale brown of the dead vegetation will be replaced with the verdant succulence of fine greenery. The time is nearly here for the asparagus to launch its missiles of shoots through the reluctant earth striving to reach the warmth of the sun. It will not be long before strawberries will be everywhere. Each restaurant placing a placard on their menu touting their strawberry shortcake as the best. It is a wondrous time of discovery and renewal.
At the shore of Lake Michigan, the mighty mountains of ice which battered the shoreline have been reduced to cocktail ice cubes floating in a blue sea. The red of the lighthouses is visible again, no longer obstructed by the coating of ice which masked their beauty. If the winter is the time of drabness and monotony, the spring is a festival of colors and imagination. Imagination leading to the bonfire on the beach as the sun drifts into the lake with nary a sound. Magnificent in its splendor and remarkable in its speed of departure. The waves lap the shore again, no longer obstructed by the ice; free to drip and wash the shore clean once more.
Well that did it DWD.
You drove everyone away.
Works everytime! (I hope not)
Not.
Every spring when Mr. QL and I take a walk, I wax poetic about the reawakening of the trees and flowers. DWD just does it better.
Heavy rain predicted all weekend, chance of snow showers here.
Morning everyone.
The weekend here is suppose to be nicer than last week. Some sun and warmer temps. No more snow in any form.
Aw DWD.
You forgot some of the other lovely sights of Spring in Michigan (always the pessim... realist).
The awareness that your car has developed cancer over the Winter as you view a new rusted out salt spot on your longtime family member.
Don't put away your Winter things 'til Memorial Day 'cause the ice stays on lakes 'til then and a snowstorm in May is not rare.
Please everyone, just take 3 minutes to sign this Petition. By doing so you may one day be able to tell your children you helped restore sanity when our Country was in very serious danger from within.
Maybey not, maybey it's too late. But let's just TRY, ok???
Sign it, and email a few friends with the link to do the same. Many hands make light work. This is OUR USA, and right now we can still do this, so lets DO it; let's DO at least this.
Imagine if each and every Democrat, Independent, and Progressive in the US
had DONE just this much before the election.
It may have made it impossible to steal. But we didn't ALL DO this much then, so again I appeal to each and every Eschatonian: PLEASE Sign This Petition NOW, and Please eMail the link to AT LEAST 3 friends NOW.
Thank You And May God Save Our Beloved
Nation
http://johnkerry.com/petition/us...on/
usatoday.php
thanks for the responses, I've often wondered about this. appreciated
Spring leads into summer. Summer leads to loads of flatlander motorhomes CRAWLING up into the mountains.
God I love winter time.
Good morning. Just having come back from an inspirational Wolcott, I must ask the following questions. Is it just a coincidence that the first papal election in over 25 years will be held just months after the successful Iraqi election? Will the invasion of Iraq inspire brave Catholic cardinals from around the world to choose a new pope--even though such an election is a guaranteed death sentence for the winner?
I hate reading comment threads with my shoes on. Hold on - (long pause while he removes shoes, fetches cup of coffee and lights a cigarette) okay, that's better.
I think the thrust here is that people will vote against their own interests only until that can't ignore that they are anymore. When they have to choose between Cocoa Puffs for the kids or a second mortgage for a tank of gas for the Excursion, the light bulb starts to flicker.
I voted for Kerry, but face it, he's a policy wonk. A damn good one and a damn fine prosecutor to boot. A very smart guy, with whom I'd be hesitant to sit down at a poker table with. But, he was too "wonkish" for the great unwashed. They didn't see him as "leaderly". Even though he understood the ins and outs of DC and politics far better than W could in two lifetimes.
People voted for Bush instead, I think largely out of fear, yes, but also because Kerry hadn't figured out how to appear "Presidential". In other words, they voted against their best interests based on appearances. Nothing more.
Someone should ask Mankiw if, applying his treatise, the Bush Pioneers would start voting against their economic interests and politicians that promise copious tax cuts, knowing the Bush administration tax policies are fiscally irresponsible and economically unsound.
"When in doubt, I just go with 'Brand-name items at LOW, LOW PRICES!'"
J Carolina 04.02.05 - 1:48 am
And remember J, the "more you shop, the more you save."
Wiat a damn minute here. All the people that voted for King George voted against their own self interest, right?
Bush promises lower taxes but they dont get down to the people because all other government must raise taxes to gain revenue.
Bush raids social security, raids the highway tax, the pension guaranty fund and that is certainly against the voters economic interest.
I am starting a rumor that Bush II will be working (working hard cause it's hard work) to raise the price of gasoline to over $100/barrel - $3 to $4 at the pump - in an effort to save Amtrak.
>An economist arguing that people would
>vote for policies which go against
>their own self-interest is truly a
>bizarre economist.
This logic always irks me because sometimes its honorable when someone casts a vote against one's own self interest for the sake of others or their beliefs.
For example, a wealthy person may vote in support of keeping a progressive tax structure because he/she feels it it fair, even though it is against their own self-interest.
Principles only matter when you're willing to stand by them when it's inconvenient.
Of course, since economics tends to be concerned with increasing total wealth and not so much with its fair distribution, its questionable if the arguments against rent control remain valid outside the economist viewpoint.
All economists are truly bizarre.
And then there's John Kenneth Galbraith, Paul Krugman, and some lesser-known non-bizarre economists. The good news is that the Chicago School has lost its stranglehold on economic orthodoxy.
I've been believing for a long time that the moneyed interests have been playing the religious conservatives for fools. The super-rich have the money but not the votes (even Bill Gates has only one vote). The religious conservatives have the votes but not the money.
I like what someone said upthread about people voting against their own self-interests, but not altruistically.
And apropos of the title of this thread, does anyone know how to pronounce Mankiw? The NYT won't tell me.
I think I keep coming back to Atrios and the comments because I find it comforting to know that I am not alone in the Bush universe.
I once worked for a conservative lawyer married to a doctor.
He constantly ranted and raved about welfare, rent control, social security, the brown hordes sucking up his tax dollars and his having to pay for public schools (he HATED public school; he went to Dartmouth).
As we talked of these things one day he let slip that since his his wife was in med school at the time (and he was a practising attorney) they lived in subsidised housing - even though they were more than able to afford the rent on his income.
When I jumped on his "obvious" hypocracy he laughed and laughed at how I didn't understand economics and how I would always be an employee.
I suggested that he whould probably always be a dick.
He proved himself wrong a moment later when he fired me, and I'm sure he's still a dick so my viewpoint was ultimately vindicated.
"This logic always irks me because sometimes its honorable when someone casts a vote against one's own self interest for the sake of others or their beliefs." - IANAE
Exactly, IANAE. And we don't always have to couch it as 'honorable'. It may just be a more sophisticated understanding of where one's interests lie in a large and complex society.
"Am I really better off receiving a tax reduction of $x,000's, which I have been comfortably managing without for years, if it results in a society less able to support my activities due to: reduced health, education and welfare coupled with increased crime."
My very Rep mother-in-law is amazed that my wife and I, who are both fairly successful (certainly doing better financially than she ever did), aren't ardent supporters of this administration's tax policy. You won't believe how hard it is to explain to her that the supposed tax benefits we've received are vastly outweighed by what we foresee as the damage it's doing to both 'society' and the financial underpinnings of the country. We know we and our children are going to be the poorer for it.
This ain't irrational. It ain't complicated. It's enlightened self-interest.
"Of course, since economics tends to be concerned with increasing total wealth and not so much with its fair distribution, its questionable if the arguments against rent control remain valid outside the economist viewpoint."
I've lived in a rent controlled apartment in SF for the last 12 years, and I would definintely vote to remove it.
My degree in economics aside, I can tell you that rent control in San Francisco has led to higher rents for a majority of renters while benefitting a few renters like me.
Developers have had scant incentive to build new residential rental units, and instead focus on commercial development, lofts, and condominums. Landlords and new apartment buyers have a strong incentive to legally oust tenants whenever possible, while renters have an incentive to dig in and never move. Landlords will also hold back a unit, or leave it vacant. For some, the potential burden of having a rent controlled tenant for life is just not worth it. All of these factors produce the result that we have far fewer units available for rent than we would in a non-controlled system. This perptual constriction on supply has kept rents for the few units that are available much higher than they should be.
I've listened to stories from old timers in SF. Before we had rent control, one could always find an affordable place. Renters used to move around more, and try out different neighborhoods. I believe that we should have certain restrictions to protect the elderly, and that landlords should have to give a lot longer notice if they want to vacate their unit in some cases, but I am steadfastly against the control of rents.
A lot of my fellow renters are coming to the conclusion that 30+ years of rent control has resulted in a more expensive city. It has a perverse side effect which benefits landlords by increasing real estate value and keeping demand for available units artificially high.
oddly, i have to agree with his assertion--that more people ought to have some background in economics. but i think that they ought to take a broader view of the field of economics than that to which mankiw is referring.
it has been alluded to a few times in this discussion, but it's important to note that the 'economic argument against rent control' is not the economic argument on the subject. though mainstream orthodox economists like to pretend that their school of economics is the entire field, they are wrong. they have succeeded in pushing these voices out of most of the academic and policy worlds, but nonetheless there are many other competing ideas about how capitalism works, most of which are far more realistic than the orthodox neoclassical school.
it is the neoclassicals who will blather on about liberating the market. in their minds, and in their highly unrealistic model, capitalism is inherently and absolutely perfect. any attempt to fiddle around with it, like rent control, is going to mess up the perfect god-given machine that is the economy. economists from other schools of thought, the broad heterodox tradition, tend to see the economy as the human construct that it is, and therefore not inherently perfect.
it is the neoclassical school which believes that people not only do but should act solely based upon self interest. so it is strange to hear one of their number claiming that people ought to do so, but not all economists take such a nuance-free view of reality.
Yeah, but we'll get rid of them in the NEXT election!
What? THEY control the electoral process now? The Dems are either cowed, accidentally dead or Skull-n-Bonesmen?
Sigh.
Bartendrix, I'll have a triple shot of alcoholic oblivion. And leave the bottle....
greg mankiw: nobel prize nominee!
maybe econs need to take some psych courses
Rufusfyrefly, this neoclassical bashing doesn't cut it. Post war neoclassical economists include paul samuelson and james tobin. These two are some of the best and most constructive liberal economists the country has ever seen.
mim:
Just a quick response to your question:
Mankiw is pronounced [Man Kew]
It rhymes with "Man Screw"
Need I say more?
Actually, I do have one more thing to say: Isn't it lovely to have somewhere reliable to go for basic factual information besides the New York Times?
Bloggers really know how to give it up -- and graciously, too.
While we're discussing fuel, has anyone been foodshopping lately? I can't believe how much food prices have shot up in recent months.
I bought larger portions today because we have a relative coming to stay with us. I just about passed out when the check out clerk said, "$187...." Yikes!
That's a jump in grocery prices like Grandma Carter and Grandma Ford used to make.
Economists are dab hands for the tautological argument. Then, when (to their surprise) the tautology holds they proclaim: Look, Ma! Science!
No, an economist arguing that people would vote for policies which go against their own self-interest is a truly indoctrinated Republican hack.
Or a Democrat.
If people know more about a "science" based on the idea of "rational self-interest" they would vote against their own self-interest.
Yes, Atrios - I believe you have discovered a winner in the cognitive dissonance contest.
So who gets to award Mankiw the "exploding head" statuette he gets for winning?
But the tautology -- much like the much-vaunted "center" -- will not hold.... So why is it that so many economists -- and here I refer to the University of Chicago School and their Ayn Rand want-to-be acolytes -- are blind to this well-documented reality?
Unless, of course, their economic vision of an ideal world is one in which there is a small ruling, property-owning, corporate-managing, media-controlling, and market-manipulating investor class -- of which the economists see themselves as a natural and indispensable part.
And these well-positioned scions of the rich and super rich arrive on third base and advance to home plate as the result of another batter's base on balls -- no matter how successfully they can affect the "common touch" vis-a-vis George W. Bush and his fake Texas twang!
These titans of industry, property, markets, and media -- and let's not forget the importance of legacies and inheritance! -- continue to wield their power over the lives of those of us who labor on their behalf, whether those minions include the Ivy League-educated fortunate few who manage their offices and create their money-making innovations and sit on their boards, or the maids who make their beds, do their laundry, and clean their toilets.
And all is designed to maintain these beneficiaries of the private and public trust so as to ensure that they will remain rich, comfortable, trust-funded, tax-sheltered, and no longer engaged in the "pursuit" of happiness because they have have attained it and they're damned-well determined to keep it that way.
Are you listening, Alan Greenspan?
Actually, it's quite a good gig until enough people catch on finally and say: "Enough!"
Hopefully, the excluded majority will achieve social, political, and economic change with the pen, the blog, and the voting booth -- oh, yes, I should add that it must be a voting booth without corporate-owned, secretly-encoded, electronic voting machines provided by one of the two major parties and whose corporate CEOs have sworn to "deliver" the votes to their own (Republican) candidates through the preposterous gimmick of offering no votor-verified paper ballot, thus preventing a recount in a close race.
Who would have thought?
I'd say that we on the progressive left have a lot of work ahead of us, but you imagine a more worthy endeavor?
Finally, I'm not suggesting anything more radical than a European-style democracy with a strong and vital social safety net -- on the order of those enjoyed by France, the Netherlands, and Scandanavia -- and coupled with a vigorous market-based economy in which the wealth is more evenly distributed.
Is that such a terrible vision?
Yet here we are in the United States with no national single-payer health care system, a slate of elected officials who waltz to the tunes of their corporate masters, and now, at the dawn of the 21st century, we are fighting to keep our Social Security!
Biden, Lieberman, Kerry, Clinton, and the rest of you fair-weather Republicrats, are you listening?
But, in all fairness, we do offer gigantic tax cuts for the rich and super rich -- $134 billion brand-spanking new ones in the 2006 budget!
And in case you've been too busy or depressed to notice: "Freedom is on the march"....
Actually, I do have one more thing to say: Isn't it lovely to have somewhere reliable to go for basic factual information besides the New York Times?
I mention the NY Times because it's often very good at telling you how to pronounce puzzling names. But I had to listen to the radio to find out how to pronounce SHY-vo.
My question is this: if the retirement age is to be raised, wouldn't that necessitate more jobs? But if no new jobs are being created, and there's no SS, then what are we supposed to live on?
I'd like to think this is an appropriate question for an economist. - Sallyh, Countess Aerohen
Not really appropriate as one would hope considering what passes for economic thought in certain arenas - an underlying assumption of the Econs 101 / Uncle Miltie Friedman style of econs that "informs" political debate is that all economic transactions are "voluntary": a person doesn't have "needs" in Econs 101, they have "wants". If your income goes down 'cause you are unemployed or underemployed, you just have to give up a few wants you would otherwise have satisfied.
Much Econs 101 style economics seems to either assume that basic needs can be met by many sources (e.g. there are a bunch of small farmers who can sell food at an arbitrarily low cost) or that there is some sort of safety net and subsidy net so people are purchasing / selling based on wants rather than needs: in other words Econs 101 style market theory assumes either a quasi-socialist safety net or that the economy occurs among oligarchs with an underlying layer of serfs!
Certainly, Friedman and his ilk all seem to make economic propositions that don't make any sense unless you assume everyone has a rather large trust fund. Their economic "logic" is by and for the rich.
Seriously, Sallyh - that's a good question. That nobody in the media is asking it make one wonder: is our pundits learning?
this is why economists make lousy politicians.
and vice versa.
The most lasting concept I learned in graduate study of economics is this:
economists are remarkably malleable when influenced by financial considerations.
[An economist arguing that people would vote for policies which go against their own self-interest is truly a bizarre economist.]
What's the matter with Kansas?
I hope like hell this was an ironic comment on your part, Atrios. If it wasn't, Janeane will probably not be offering up any more blowjobs.
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