I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
I love Joe Klein. He knows his bug spray very well.
He shoulda stayed "Anonymous."
It occurs to me that if Republicans pay no attention to "responsible conservatives," why does it fall to the Democrats to do so?
Put 'em in foster care.
He's on our side like Vichy France was on our side.
I took money from Vichy France. Chirac's France is now a bunch of pussies.
Klein's another of those dolts on my retroactive birth control list.
What part of "the government should stay the hell out of my private life" does he not understand?
Yes, spending the rest of your life confined to a bed, in a vegetative state, completely unaware of the world outside and unable to appreciate the things that make life worth living and having your shell of a body tended to by your aging parents.
That's a life most 20-somethings I know would aspire to.
Fucken-a, Joe.
Nope - Klein is a pundit and thus to be ignored. Wanker of the day stays with Blitzer, who is supposedly a reporter.
"Joe Klein is the worst pundit in Washington. And, of course, he's on "our side." "
Burned my mouth ..funny
I am not a fan of censorship. But I think it's time to delegitimize the voices of those on the far right, and not permit them to take part in the discussion. We have accommodated them for far too long. Telling them to go back to their snake cages (with apologies to Echidne) and not allowing them voice would be the best way, I think, to put them back where they belong.
You want to censor my minions? You will never be able to do that.
I am not a fan of censorship.
Well, are you talking about censorship or censureship? Ain't nothin' wrong with the latter. Or maybe some fun in the shun.
Shit - CSPAN running the Constitution Restoration crap.
Eli--you're such a love 
Have no idea who this dude is so I got nuthin. Off to play-later dudes!
Joe is not a liberal pundit. He is not "on our side" on many issues - including SS - an issue that Democrats will win!!
Joe Klein went after Paul Krugman on Meet the Press, because Paul is not in favor of Private Accounts. How clueless is Joe Klein? He attacked Paul, and let Kate O'Beirne spin Bushco talking points incessantly without a challenge. Why? Because he likes the idea of private accounts.
He's just another loose cannon. He's not a liberal. Like Joe Lieberman, Klein straddles the line, and cannot be trusted.
He's hoping for a guest appearance on the IMUS show or some other of MSCRAP ..probably with the Mayor of Looneyville
gotta stay with the party line
Joe wants us to listen to Phylis Schlafly because if we do not the Democratic party is doomed. Doomed.
"Joe wants us to listen to Phylis Schlafly because if we do not the Democratic party is doomed. Doomed."
Ba'al
How about if we all just listen to Ba'al instead?
"Joe wants us to listen to Phylis Schlafly because if we do not the Democratic party is doomed. Doomed."
Ba'al
How about if we all just listen to Ba'al instead?
How about if we make *everyone else* listen to Phyllis Schlafly?
Esp. liked this from Digby:
There must be some kind of computer program you can buy in DC that scolds Democrats like a drunk and bitter stepmother no matter what the circumstances. If there isn't, I'm going to invent one so that Joe Klein can spend even more time kissing the flatulent asses of sanctimonious Republican gasbags who insist that James Dobson and his zombie nation represent "real" America...
He shoots, he scores!!!
Telling them to go back to their snake cages (with apologies to Echidne) and not allowing them voice would be the best way, I think, to put them back where they belong.
Haven't we been telling them that for over 4 years now? Getting them to listen is the problem.
Ba'al now speaks!
All head the words of Ba'al.
The word for today is "sloth".
Ba'al has spoken.
He's hoping for a guest appearance on the IMUS show or some other of MSCRAP ..probably with the Mayor of Looneyville
It's funny (peculier not ha ha) how many of our so called liberals pander to Imus.
They don't want to sound too liberal, and they don't buy the rethugs 100% either.
Joe L., Joe B., Matthews, russert, even Harold Ford Jr. all get the call from Don in the am.
(I haven't listened to Imus since Air America came to Boston)
Mmm... sloth...
I am not a fan of censorship. But I think it's time to delegitimize the voices of those on the far right, and not permit them to take part in the discussion.
Now, how do we do that, with an almost completely uncooperative media? Fortunately these voices are beginning to delegitimize themselves. What happened with Schaivo is making that clearer. THAT got everybody's attention. It's galling that anyone, Klein included, would still be trying to spin Schiavo as anything but a buttinsky tragedy.
Did anybody happen to watch Real Time last night? It was surprisingly good. (I thought Scaryborough was supposed to be on, but he wasn't.) Arianna Huffington kicked ass, and so did Ian McShane, who is apparently worthy of devout adoration. He knew more about the Schiavo case (and a bunch of other stuff) than Maher did.
Maher had opened by saying he was a huge fan of Deadwood and would be honored to be called a "cocksucker" by McShane. McShane accommodated him later, after Maher started on about "what if, even though they fucked up the war, they DO manage to bring democracy to the Middle East?" It was a magic moment. Maher did, however, make some sense, getting in a decent hit at "Pharmacists for Life," at the crackpot legislators threatening the judiciary, and a few other issues.
There was also a cringeworthy interview with Richard Perle.
The word for today is "sloth".
Ba'al has spoken.
Well, shit. I have waaaay too much to do today to indulge in the word.
Sorry, Ba'al. Maybe next time.
Hows about a nice burnt offering instead?
sorry for the spelling peculiar
There was also a cringeworthy interview with Richard Perle.
There's another kind?
Eli, I plead guilty to redundancy.
I heart Digby. He always takes the time to really nail the bastards, but good.
And I loved this line: "He has the political instincts of a dead cat." Hee hee.
Whew!
I didn't watch Real Time last night because I thought Scaryborough was going to be there. I'll give it a shot tonight. I've loved McShane since "If it's Tuesday this must be Belgium" and Lovejoy.
Once and asshole, always an asshole.
I saw him speak in the early '90s. (It was free.) Almost no one in the audience. He said nothing of any substance. Even when he liked Clinton I thought he was a jerk. Whenever I see him on TV I turn to another station.
...aside from everything else, I just cannot fathom that anyone believes that there is this vast movement of people who want to give their in-laws the legal right to interfere with their decisions.
It is right here that all of this really really gets me. Adults do not want their parents or their in-laws running their lives. But beyond that, recognizing some special rights in parents over their adult children completely unhinges our legal system.
Completely.
I heart Digby. He always takes the time to really nail the bastards, but good.
And this was damn good Digby, wasn't it? At moments he seemed to be channeling Rude Pundit.
>people who want to give their in-laws the legal right to interfere with their decisions.
Inlaws, hell. How many here even want their parents to have a say over, or even equal to, somebody that you have made an adult commitment to?
HoneyBear: Prepare to fall head over heels, if you have not already done so. As if his performance last night weren't enough, he also has a charming accent.
Haven't been able to pick up the thread of Deadwood. I've gotta rent the first season or something. The one I've paid any attention to had Swearingen (?) having a stone dug out of his nether regions, and it was kind of excruciating to watch.
Ok, Tena, that was eerie. Great minds and all that, I guess!
There was also a cringeworthy interview with Richard Perle.
Man, Perle has a face that is evil as that of one of The Borgias...
But beyond that, recognizing some special rights in parents over their adult children completely unhinges our legal system.
We were seeing something similar awhile back with the "grandparents' rights" movement, if I recall. Visitation issues and the like. Thorny issues, completely unviable.
Klein asked something like, "What would you do if you were T. Schiavo's parents?" Well, damn, I HOPE I'd have had enough heart, enough lack of selfishness, to let her go!
doesn't matter - well, I'll take the "great minds" part, but to me this is so self-evident that I'm not surprised the two of us thought of it at the same time.
Can you imagine? Seriously - if you stop to think about the ramifications of giving parents some sort of permanent control over their offspring, it is just the most incredible thing I have ever heard pundits trying support.
McShane was a lot of fun on RealTime. The more Arianna spoke, the more McShane turned his chair in her direction. Then he began lounging with an open body in her direction - I think he was smitten.
Hard not to be. She has really turned out to be an asset. She's not only sharp, she's sexy. She's my kind of feminist. I don't even think about her past silliness anymore.
Digby writes: There must be some kind of computer program you can buy in DC that scolds Democrats like a drunk and bitter stepmother no matter what the circumstances.
Yes, it's called "the mainstream media."
Best,
Tena (went away, hauled out garbage, threw sheets in the washer, etc.) -- Yep. I thought they both might have been a bit smitten. Hell, had I been sitting between the two of 'em, I'd have been in deep smit.
I was lucky enough not to have been paying much attention during Huffington's previous incarnation. If she's written or said anything in recent years that would have pissed me off, I didn't catch it. I remember the segments with her in bed, literally, with Al Franken (was it Franken?) on Maher's old show -- seems like she was coming around, even then.
God, I hate Blogger, or my browser, or something. Two new posts up there; NFW they were showing up HERE at 2:03 and 2:16... and I was wondering why it was so quiet here this afternoon.
Joe's always a good candidate for the Hickory Hall of Fame, and a personal introduction to my friend, the Louisville Slugger...
Mr.K's patellas need to snap like spring peas...
.
I think both you and Digby need to relax.
Joe Klein expressed a thoughtful opinion, and he didn't undermine his 'side' by doing so.
I'm tired of hearing liberals attacking the liberalism of others. You don't define liberalism, Atrios, and neither do your friends.
"Responsible conservatives"???? Ain't no such political animal in the USA. Is Klein living in Bizarro USA, where up is down, down is up, black is white, white is black, and "responsible conservatives" actually exist?
Sorry, in the reality-based USA, the one we actually live in, the only significant group you'll see over on the right is foaming-at-the-mouth, irrational, factless, logicless right wingnuts.
Fuck off, theperegrine, Klein has no real liberalism to offer. He's just another media whore looking for face time to jack up his speaking fees. And you certainy don't define liberalism if you're assigning it to Klein.
ronjazz,
Yeah, who cares about anyone if they don't think the same way you do about everything?
They're all just part of the problem, and you'd be the solution if only you were fucking king.
"responsible conservatives" actually exist?
Yup, they do...but not among the ranks of the theo-fascist, anarchist GOPhux who now have the reins of power...
they're mostly in the Democratic party to the exztent that they are in any party apparatus at all any more...
Where's that blue-tail fly when you need it most?
Klei's idea of a responsible conservative
James Watt, President Reagan’s first Secretary of the Interior … told the U.S. Congress that protecting natural resources was unimportant in light of the imminent return of Jesus Christ. In public testimony he said, “after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back.
with all the blogs and bloggers it is getting harder and harder for turkeys like klein to think of things to say....so don't say anything is good advice...
There's nothing conservative about the notion that parents should have some sort of legal say in their adult children's lives and decisions. That's radical.
There's certainly nothing liberal about it - it imposes another layer of control over people. Klein is an idiot.
Silleigh - I went away too and got caught up posting over at First-Draft. I see your comment and I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that Ian was getting quite passionately interested in Ariana on RealTime. Personally I find her so enjoyable that I was also enjoying his attitude.
theperegrine: Joe Klein expressed a thoughtful opinion, and he didn't undermine his 'side' by doing so. I'm tired of hearing liberals attacking the liberalism of others.
For what it's worth, I did not find Klein's piece thoughtful.
But I'm curious to know what you make of Armando's take on the matter.
Best,
Klein is truly, truly an asshole. Deeply, madly, truly. Mr. "Mob Rule."
Fuckwad.
OT-Real time was great last night. Huffington was spectacular. And, right in front of him, Maher introduced Perle as "the Prince of Darkness". Hi-larious!
Also Bill's jabs at pharmacists who won't fill birth control RXs was wicked funny. "You're not a doctor! You're a guy in a pretend doctor's smock who just got promoted from the area where people drop off their film!"
By the way:
Even as Joe Klein was telling the Democrats to kneel down and let Tom DeLay trash the judiciary (even after Dick Cheney and Bill Frist spent most of last week distancing themselves from DeLay's comments), we find an actual reporter, the WP's Charles Babington, telling us about the Big Ass Rift that DeLay's opened up in the GOP:
">GOP Is Fracturing Over Power of Judiciary
Democrats Say Conservatives Are Targeting Filibuster Rules on Court Nominees
By Charles Babington
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 7, 2005; Page A04
The Terri Schiavo case has reinvigorated a drive by congressional conservatives to discipline and curtail the power of federal judges, just as Senate Republicans are trying to repel Democratic claims that the GOP is extremist and overreaching in its bid to shape the federal judiciary.
The debate is causing tensions within the Republican Party, whose Senate leaders distanced themselves this week from an attack on judges leveled by House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.).
Party insiders say Congress is unlikely to impeach judges or dramatically limit the courts' jurisdiction, as DeLay has repeatedly threatened to do. But Democrats, sensing a political opening, have pounced on DeLay's comments -- and similar remarks made by other conservatives -- in their campaign to prevent Senate Republicans from changing filibuster rules that have enabled Democrats to block several of President Bush's appellate court nominees.
"If they don't get what they want, they attack whoever's around," Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) told reporters this week. "Now they're after the courts, and I think it goes back to this arrogance of power."
[...]
Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) said yesterday, "The Schiavo case cast a bright light on the dark forces behind the . . . campaign" to change Senate rules and bar judicial filibusters. Noting that federal judges are asking Congress for an extra $12 million for security systems in most of their homes, Kennedy said: "I urge President Bush and [Senate Majority Leader Bill] Frist to call a halt to the reckless Republican rhetoric that is endangering judges' lives."
Frist (R-Tenn.) played a central role in Congress's Palm Sunday legislation directing a federal court to step into the Schiavo case, but this week he distanced himself from criticisms such as DeLay's and Cornyn's. "I believe we have a fair and independent judiciary," he said.
DeLay and his allies, however, remain infuriated that the Atlanta-based Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit refused Congress's orders to take control of Schiavo's case from Florida courts. Judge Stanley F. Birch Jr., who was appointed to the appellate court by President George H.W. Bush, criticized Congress's actions as being "at odds" with the Constitution.
Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa), a Judiciary Committee member and DeLay ally, said in an interview: "That kind of judge needs to be worried about what kind of role Congress will play in his future." King said it is not clear what steps his committee might take, but he said most people do not realize the power Congress can exert over courts if it chooses.
[...]
GOP attacks on the federal judiciary could prove politically tricky. Well more than half of the nation's 266 U.S. appellate court judges and approximately 1,000 district court judges were appointed by Republican presidents.
Senate Democrats cite such facts to depict Republican activists as extremists who will stop at nothing to turn the federal judiciary into a conservative bastion. "Apparently, it's not enough for Republicans to rule the White House and the Congress," Kennedy said. "They want power over the independent judiciary, too. The checks and balances so vital to our democracy are for them merely an inconvenience."
Democratic-affiliated groups are spending millions of dollars on TV ads and collecting thousands of petitions to oppose Frist's threat to change the filibuster rules for judicial nominees. Frist and others say the Democrats' use of the filibuster is an unconstitutional strategy that prevents senators from providing the president "advice and consent" on judges.
I'm tired of hearing liberals attacking the liberalism of others. You don't define liberalism, Atrios, and neither do your friends.
theperegrine
Well, it's obvious that someone who spends their professional life slamming liberals and praising Republicans doesn't define liberalism. I know liberals are a generous people willing to allow people to have their own opinions but to allow a media whore to the oligarchs to define us goes too far, even for us. When is he going to pay a price for lying to his colleagues about not having written that stupid book he wrote slamming Clinton?
>I'm tired of hearing liberals attacking the liberalism of others. You don't define liberalism, Atrios, and neither do your friends.
theperegrine
EXCUSE ME, but Joe Klein has never been a liberal.
And if you are tired of liberals slamming Vichy Democrats, call Al From and cry on his fucking shoulder. He needs all the friends he can get.
The reference to Vichy France was a good one. So, if we're to listen to Klein, Bush should get the Nobel Peace Prize if things go right in Iraq.
Give me a break...
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Did anyone else catch Lawrence O'Donnell (Dem pundit) on McLaughlin a week or so ago making exactly this argument -- ie that he cannot understand why he as a parent would lose the right to make medical decisions for his child if s/he was married. I could not believe my ears. He was really emphatic about it, like this was a burning problem of out of control assertive son/daughter in laws making medical decisions without their in-laws'say so that needed to be solved ASAP. ye gads!
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