I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
freedom
sure it is
The new Dancing Queen: Wal-Mart
Lots of creepy things about this.
My wife miscarried back in 1985 due to physician negligence. We could NOT sue the doctor for misdiagnosis / malpractice because we could not sue on behalf of the fetus -- it was not considered a legal entity.
And yes, on my wife's medical records, it was recorded as a spontaneous abortion.
So, Sen and Mrs. Santorii were just test-marketing the forthcoming bill, right?
Pfui.
LOL. Watching William Shatner's Rocketman, and then Stewie Griffin's cover... it's like heaven.
Oh, wow. Sorry, rather grim thread to be frivolous on. What I get for not paying attention.
But hey, dead child tax deduction. It combines the two favorite GOP priorities.
CN Todd, your blog looks good. I've added it and will delve into it a bit later. Thanks
Whups - love that hell-o-scan - my old homepage was retained in the previous comment. For my new homepage, click on link below.
The key graf:
"I don't see this as a big issue; physicians are going to do what's appropriate," said Grimes, who now practices in North Carolina. "It's all rhetoric from persons with political views they want to advance."
Leavitt's aides refused to say who made the inquiries or whether the government had received any complaints of abuse or neglect involving a just-born or aborted fetus.
Only when they're left in the dumpster.
Does anyone know any gynecologists well or have you read any articles about their concerns? What are they saying about this crap?
Are Social Security numbers issued?
Can't ya just pick and chose which law applies when? After all the repug just make shit up all the time:
The former Democratic state attorney general lashed back, suggesting that Focus on the Family was "hijacking" Christianity, becoming an appendage of the Republican Party and trying to turn the U.S. into a religion-dominated "theocracy."
That drew an angry response from Focus on the Family founder James Dobson. In an open letter to Salazar on Thursday, he said "the excuses and personal attacks must stop."
"The real 'abuse of power' in the Senate is coming not from the Republicans, but from Democrats who are defying 200 years of Senate tradition in an attempt to hold on to the only power base they have left: the courts," Dobson wrote. "Isn't it time you stopped hijacking a process that has served us well throughout our nation's history?"
A Virginia group called The Judicial Confirmation Network created a Web site, www.salazarwaffles.com, highlighting Salazar's pre-election statement saying he supported giving qualified judicial nominees an up-or-down vote.
"If we can't trust Ken Salazar to stick to his word on the most important issue of the day," it said, "how can we trust his word on any other issue important to the people of Colorado."
Since Wednesday's news conference, Salazar's Denver office tallied 416 phone calls supporting Salazar's stand and 2,218 calls opposing him.
Many of those were repeat calls from people reading the same prepared scripts, spokesman Cody Wertz said.
Thanks Ripley.
In a telephone briefing with reporters, Smith refused to elaborate on the definition of "alive" or to describe specific cases in which doctors would be legally required to treat a "baby," in his words.
Shorter CMS - we know this is a stupid fucking law with no way to enforce it, but we have to keep the fundie wingnuts happy somehow, so deal.
My sister's an OB/GYN but I haven't talked politics with her. I'd guess she'd lean liberal - being a feminazi, pointyheaded, liberal elitist physician and all.... I mean, really... women need their own special, womany doctors? Come onnnnnn.... /snark
She really is an OB/GYN, though.
So, basically, couples now have a financial incentive to conceive and abort once a year in order to claim a deduction . . .
Anyone who thinks its a coincidence these 'guidelines' were issued two days before Wingnut Judiciary Day, raise your hand.
Damn, didn't even think about that one, Eligere - nice catch.
That's beyond creepy.
This fetish of the baby has got to stop.
Does this law have any connection to the necrophile Santorum?
Friends of ours lost twins this year at 21 weeks. She had an infection, one baby died in the uterus, the other about five minutes after (induced) birth. It took them over a day to convince the (Catholic) hospital to allow them to allow the second baby to die without intervention, and their doctor had to appear before the ethics committee in order to do so.
I would not have wished their experience on anyone, but apparently it's law.
Under the new provision, it is recorded as a live birth followed by a neonatal death.
See? These women are murdering their children, just like Andrea Yates.
The Uptight Right - fascinated by gay sex and death since God knows when.
May I suggest a hobby? Maybe checkers... or stamp collecting - wait, "philatelist" sounds dirty. How bout pine wood derbies? dollies? ant farms? rock collecting? ummm... cross stitching? something....
Cult of the dead baby. Creepy. I wonder if any besides Santorum have an actual dead baby fetish.
Under the new provision, it is recorded as a live birth followed by a neonatal death.
That's one way to get our infant mortality rate up to third world standards.
WooHoo! It's a race to the bottom!
that's just weird.
I still think there's HOAP* for SpongeDob Tinypants...
*HOAP™: Head On A Pike
I smell Santorum's greasy paws all over this one...
So, basically, couples now have a financial incentive to conceive and abort once a year in order to claim a deduction . . .
Eligere
Half credit for periods?
What about spermies? A lot of them have died under my supervision.
Er.
*blushes*, runs away
I would not have wished their experience on anyone, but apparently it's law.
I would have told the Catholic Church to get stuffed and never looked back. Or asked them to pay for all the bills, what with their intense involvement in every aspect of my Life.
Bollocks....
MisterX,
Masterbation is Murder, if you did not know.......
Texas is trying to pass a damn law that would make it mandatory for doctors to try to save fetuses that survived miscarriages and abortions.
It's a full-court press, guys. It's just the beginning of the onslaught. They've been planning this for a long damn time.
Let us all be grateful that phase I, Terri Schiavo, didn't pan out as they envisioned it would.
That was a significant fucking thing. A very big deal, IMO. That's when we began to stop losing.
MisterX,
Masterbation is Murder, if you did not know.......
As Gilbert Gottfried might say, "Then I'd be on death row!"
i hate all these religious cocksuckers. they spent the entire decde of the 90's bawling like little children even though absolutely nothing particularly bad happening. now the whole world is going straight to hell and they couldn't be happier. they are even fucking proud of it.
"It's my weiner, I'll touch it as long as I want to."
Dick Whithers
Nice reporting Ceci Connally, too bad you could not have done that in 1999 and 2000 when it would have made a difference.
NYMary, if it's the law, would it have mattered that it was a Catholic hospital, or is their staff just more likely to closely follow the letter of the law?
Jebus, these people can make a bad experience about a thousand times worse.
I'm sure people who lose a pregnancy are going to be really concerned about getting that tax break.
As if the wife's miscarriage is really something you want to be discussing with your fucking accountant. Maybe I just don't understand republicans.
Well, on the bright side, Bush is now a lame duck(TM).
This is how they will go after abortion providers. It is beyond sick. Seriously, I spoke to my older daughter and suggested she consider grad school in Canada. It is going to take years to clear up the messes the fundies are creating.
i hate all these religious cocksuckers. they spent the entire decde of the 90's bawling like little children even though absolutely nothing particularly bad happening. now the whole world is going straight to hell and they couldn't be happier. they are even fucking proud of it.
It makes them feel closer to God, to know they are bringing about the End Times that will get their asses Raptured up into Heaven.
Rather than fuck it up for the rest of us who'd rather make the world a better place, may I suguest using a BFR on yourselves? I'm sure your fucking God will understand.
"jebus, these people can make a bad experience about a thousand times worse."
-pie
the religious cocksuckers do that on purpose. their solution to any problem is to maximize the damage that it causes. think about it. it really is true.
>This fetish of the baby has got to stop.
I'm still working on the MIA fetish-- that damned black silhouette banner. Every time I see one of those, I was to puke.
It makes them feel closer to God, to know they are bringing about the End Times that will get their asses Raptured up into Heaven
I wish they'd just fucking GO already. Go to that Much Better Place. Soon. Please.
Some wag somewhere suggested that the Rapture had already happened, and we're stuck with the crappy Christians that didn't get called up...
QL, I'm not sure any country is really safe from these people right now.
I would have told the Catholic Church to get stuffed and never looked back.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I read an article a few years ago that pointed out that the Catholic church has been buying up hospitals, and in some areas is the only hospital provider left. They have been forced to set up separate clinics for birth control and abortion services in areas where there are no other hospitals. Bet that gets stopped pretty soon.
And what man on dog did with his dead fetus almost had me wretching. I bet he beats his wife. He seems like the controlling type.
I think the video of Jenna doing the "butt" dance should find its way into mass circulation. I think that would be advisable, indeed.
religion kills...
Tax cuts now for all Feotus-Americans.
their solution to any problem is to maximize the damage that it causes.
To say nothing of the GUILT they're trying to foist on those who are suffering.
They're evil, inhuman monsters.
anyway, i just got the new harper's. the cover story is about the religious cocksuckers war on america. i think i will go read it and get more outraged.
Stinky:
As if the wife's miscarriage is really something you want to be discussing with your fucking accountant.
Ick. Good point.
pie:
QL, I'm not sure any country is really safe from these people right now.
One of the less appreciated joys of globalization.
Still - some are safer than others.
Big Daddy Mars -
BFR?? Pardon my ignorance.
And, just for the record, I don't take miscarriages lightly... me and mine have been down that road. The last thing I would want is unnecessary interference at a difficult time. Get you hands off my (wife's) womb, asshole.
Blogwhore: click homepage to read about our Social Security Town Hall with Tom Harking (D-IA).
I want a deduction for each sperm I produce!
OT.
It's Lucy's Cat Blogging! Come say hi to Jags and Theo!
http://stickandballguy.blogspot....t-
blogging.html
I want a deduction for each sperm I produce!
Gender bias!! Boys get millions of deductions - girls get one/month.
Here ya go.
This has to stop somewhere. While we can laugh about every sperm wasted in masturbation, women are being seriously hurt by this crap.
I want a deduction for each sperm I produce!
Gender bias!! Boys get millions of deductions - girls get one/month.
Perhaps we could claim a deduction for each sperm we swallow?
QL, I'm not sure any country is really safe from these people right now.
If the steely-eyed missile men get their way, you're right.
Speaking of Justice Sunday (earlier), did you see this?
A group of ministers representing about 17 Baptist churches in the Louisville area and a national Baptist committee that supports separation of church and state yesterday called on a Louisville church to cancel its planned "Justice Sunday" tomorrow.
"We see 'Justice Sunday' as part of a larger effort to link church and state in ways not seen in America since the Puritans were hanging Quakers on Boston Commons and exiling Baptists to Rhode Island," the Rev. Joe Phelps, pastor of Highland Baptist Church, said during a news conference yesterday.
If Lucy can cat blog I can dog hore.
got 2 different photos up.
I just can't seem to take that moutain sunset photo down tho.
Damn I love it out there.
Look, people. Miscarriage is horrific. Some women who have had them name the babies, call them their "angels," etc. I, having had four, never did so, but I can see why people do. Hell, I can even see why the man-on-dog family did what they did with baby 4. It's creepy, but I'm sure it provided closure. Probably scared the hell out of the kids, though.
Miscarriage rates are also climbing all the time. Why? No one is sure. My ob/gyn (who's seen me through 3 of my 4) thinks that women, especially older women with careers, pay so much more attention to their fertility now, particularly if they're trying to conceive, that they know almost from the word go that they're expecting. Our mothers would not have even known they were pregnant until 10 or 12 weeks, long after most miscarriages, but the article is unclear when, exactly, this live-birth reporting would begin.
And the cult of pregnancy is strong. To have your body forcibly eject you from the cult is one of the most devastating experiences a person can have. The later it is (ie the more time you spend "inside"), the worse. It makes those with successful pregnancies feel guilty and weird, and the one's who've lost their pregnancies feel like they're the only people on earth who can't have a baby.
And it doesn't help that late miscarriage is a painful, bloody business which looks and feels a lot like birth. Once you've conceived, there's no way to get un-pregnant that isn't painful and bloody, frankly. To have nothing at the end of the process but your own destroyed wish--that's awful.
All I'm saying is that this is a lot more complicated than the cult of the fetus, trust me.
Oops. Harkin.
Let's take it to the next level. Since the "pre-born" are such a hot topic and taxes are anathema to the Uptight Right, let's just allow 100% tax amnesty to any couple that suffers a miscarriage at Any stage of pregnancy.
What???? How could you take it as a tax deduction? It was not alive outside of the womb, right? If it's dead when born, it is not a LIVE birth!
Big Daddy Mars -
BFR?? Pardon my ignorance.
BFR is an actual trademark by Magnum Research, the makers of the Desert Eagle. They claim it means "Biggest Finest Revolver", but those of us who are game geeks know BFR and BFG mean something completely diffrent.
We're talking about a pistol that could put a round through a engine block. Just the right thing to get a fundie's ass to Heaven in short order.
FWIW, my friends went to the Catholic hospital because they had no idea her preterm labor was anything other than an annoyance to be stopped by medication, as often happens with twin pregnancies. Also, it's a much nicer, cleaner, more modern birthing center than the corporate hospital down the road, Byt the time the situation was clear, it was impossible to move her, plus they were afraid that if they did, the corporate hospital, having a much more sophisticated Neonatal Intensive Care Unit, would also struggle with them about intervening with the living twin.
Olaf - I got the new Harper's today, too. It's good.
Well, I'm off to dinner. Have a nice evening, everyone. It has been snowing all day, but none of it has stuck...yet.
And another thing, if we all didn't know about this, who the fuck did? I mean we spend half our lives following the news. And this went right under the radar.
Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers.Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers.Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers. Cocksuckers.
(Too much Deadwood)
Ahh, thank you. Relating that to "BFG" cleared that right up. Having a sixteen year-old very much into gaming, I am quite familiar with that term
And the cult of pregnancy is strong.
Having been through infertility, which is weirder than miscarriage and in some ways just a painful (but not above it, please note), I can only say: "Amen, Sister."
Whence comes this cult, though, is my question. What is missing from us, that we've developed this cult?
Hmmm....
Anyone listening to "Ring of Fire" re "Dead Peasants Insurance?"
I am seething over here.
4? Oh, NYMary, I am soo sorry. That's an enormous amount of grieving to do in one life.
I didn't know rates were increasing. But it sounds reasonable that one reason is that the knowledge of the pregnancy is so early now.
Res: What's that about?
(Too much Deadwood)
No, just the right amount, although I'm sure Al would say you're going too easy on the motherfucking cocksuckers.
Aristotle maintained that women have fewer teeth than men; although he was twice married, it never occurred to him to verify this statement by examining his wives' mouths. --Bertrand Russell
Here's the significant graf IMHO:
HHS officials distributed news of its decision to advocacy groups before the media briefing
Why? Why did National Right to Life Committee, et al. get notified before the media? How much lead time did they get to craft their response?
Other significant sentence:
Under the new provision, it is recorded as a live birth followed by a neonatal death, and parents can claim the child as a tax deduction for that year, he said.
Is this part of the tax code, or is this going to be part of the "tax code simplification" they are planning.
Further, suppose you undergo an audit? What will suffice as proof under a physical audit? Should you save a bone or perhaps photographs of the dead fetus will suffice for the IRS.
Will the IRS be issuing guidelines for how long you should keep the fetal bones around for?
And how about "life" insurance? Will you now be able to pop into your agents office with the still wet EPT stick and demand life insurance for the unorganized collection of cells in your uterus?
But most important, do you think any of the asshole reporters thought about asking any of these questions?
underwhelm ...
Corporation allowed to take out life insurance policy on employee w/o his knowledge. Typically taken out on employees working in high-risk jobs.
RMJ,
Not sure whence the cult comes.
I suspect it's at least partly a marketing thing ("we've got seven or eight months to sell you these ugly clothes and these belly supporters and these 700 must-have books, and damn it! we're going to make you buy them all!") but also has something to do with women who seek to do pregnancy right because they know they've only got one or two shots at best ("no salmon! no hot dogs! I have to eat kale!"). My mother, who did it seven times starting at age 19, smoked and drank coffee and alcohol and had seven basically healthy children. When I had my first miscarriage, she was stunned. We have so many fewer children now that each is an event.
genoa:
Further, suppose you undergo an audit? What will suffice as proof under a physical audit?
If its a live birth followed by a neonatal death, you'd have a death certificate.
genosail, Life Insurance for dependents generally doesn't kick in for 14 days or so, depending on the insurer.
I'm not sure if that's a holdover from days of poor neo-natal care or if the actuaries noticed a trend in the last few decades.
underwhelm ...
Corporation allowed to take out life insurance policy on employee w/o his knowledge. Typically taken out on employees working in high-risk jobs.
Res Ipsa Loquitor
And Wal-Mart employees. I reckon they're making a killing on all those senior citizen greeters. God, I hate Wal-Mart. I know there are several lawyers here; isn't it illegal to take out a life insurance policy on someone without their knowledge and/or consent?
I shold clarify - Life Insurance for newborns, not dependents as a whole.
I know there are several lawyers here; isn't it illegal to take out a life insurance policy on someone without their knowledge and/or consent?
Bobby Kennedy said this was something he learned in his 1st year of law school (it's called "wagering"). The repukes made it okay by statute.
A miscarriage would have medical records. My earliest was at 7 weeks, and even that required an outpatient D&C.
We have so many fewer children now that each is an event.
Yep. Plus its all part of the fundie yearning for yesteryear. Big families, nuclear families, women at home with the kiddies etc etc etc
Are Social Security numbers issued?
Laura | Email | Homepage | 04.23.05 - 5:42 pm | #
Miscarriage is generally horrific, as noted above, but what about blastocysts that never implant?
Isn't finding one of these in menstrual discharge worth big bucks now? (Child tax credit plus the exemption; lather, rinse, & repeat.)
NY Mary--not to mention the fact that your body still thinks it's pregnant for the next nine months and goes through all of the hormone shit whether the fetus is still there or not.
clean sheets upstairs, folks
RMJ,
Sorry to hear about the infertility issues: I know they're painful. In my economically depressed town, the sight of numerous pregnant teens always felt like a slap in the face to me when I was either trying to conceive or had just lost one.
On the other hand, you have freaks like the McCaugheys, whose doctor was apparently giving her fertility drugs when she had an infant under one in the house. (Their daughter was 18 months when the sextuplets were born.) How long could they have even been trying?
It isn't topsy-turvy at all if you just look at the intent behind this all. The intent is not to give parents more power or to value life more. The intent is to make abortions illegal. Then the whole thing is perfectly logical.
I'm going to start looking into what is required for immigrating into Iran. Need to find some place more liberal than the U.S..
"now the whole world is going straight to hell and they couldn't be happier. they are even fucking proud of it.
Olaf glad and big"
Olaf I am sure someone here can put the name to it, but that does seem to be an identifiable behavior. You see it in the one to one as well as in groups. Suddenly, when chaos reigns, they step forward. I know someone like that, at the most depressing of times, when a sober tone is best, I will find him smiling and humming merrily about as he attends to the problems of all involved. In his case, I do not see it as we do with the fundies, but it is still a bit bizzare at times.
genoasail,
Absolutely. And in my case, hangs onto weight like you're still growing a baby. It seriously fucks with your system.
And I've bummed out Atrios so much he opened a new thread! Wow!
NYMary--Not all of them have medical records. Only two of mine did and that's because they had to call 911, those were at 9 weeks. The others that were earlier in the pregnancies happened at home.
Yeah, I helped you bum Atrios out. Sorry about that gang.
The good news, is that I have a beautiful healthy child and the story has a happy ending.
In other news, I would have killed anyone who fucked with me during any of the miscarriage times or afterward about death certificates, live birth, and all that shit and you all would be introduced to me by that harpy Grace who runs the cult of cabledeathnews watch.
NYMary - That's interesting - my mother had 3 miscarriages and the doctor told her that probably she was miscarrying so early that she didn't realize that it was a miscarriage. Which bears out what you were saying your doctor had said.
genoasail,
Good point. I always chose the D&C as soon as I knew we weren't viable, having a pathological fear of starting to bleed in front of a class or something. (That's how it happened, the first time.) But you're right, of course.
What genoa said. The idea of more paperwork or any government intervention at that point would have had me suicidal.
When I had my first miscarriage, she was stunned. We have so many fewer children now that each is an event.
Augustine was "engaged" to a 14 year old, the age at which girls became eligible for marriage (and pregnancy, I presume).
So perhaps its all technology's fault. Again.
And yes, that's a subtle blogwhore.
Creepy is an understatement, It's downright morbid.
Aha! In vitro fertilization to create blastocysts galore to get many many many child tax credits!
I'll be rich!!!
All I'm saying is that this is a lot more complicated than the cult of the fetus, trust me.
NYMary
NYMary, I have not had a miscarriage, but certainly have had close friends who have had. Also have a cousin who lost two babies to SIDS. (They went on, with courage I can't imagine) to have three children who still live.
That having been said, why is this a subject of public debate? Why are personal tragedies fodder for other people's opinions, especially when those opinions are predicated on their own religious views?
Again, this makes me very angry. I honestly believe most people do their very best to be moral and ethical, and that others need to mind their own business.
We seem to always default to the lowest common denominator, and this is wrong - and it is lazy.
SD
Sarah,
I agree completely. Who would want a tax break for a tragedy?
Life insurance for the unborn?
Makes me want to cry.
Is everything about $$ now? So, really, nothing is sacred.
Sarah Deere,
Yes, you are right. It's sad and horrifying at the same time.
In this day where the wingnuts have made everything about religion, that have managed to make nothing sacred.
genoasail and NYMary....
Surely this will appall moderates as well as liberals.
When most people think/speak of "middle ground" they just mean common sense and decency.
I have - HAVE - to believe that religious extremists will get their walking papers sooner thnan later.
SD
i hate to be crude about this, but if it's a requirement to keep these fetuses alive, how long before the insurance industry steps in. keeping a premature baby alive costs hundreds of thousands of dollars; then compound that with the likely care that will be required for the rest of the child's life (should it live).
this is so fucking irrational and grotesque.
bkny,
"grotesque" is the operative word.
SD
I propose property tax levies in every county across the country to pay for life support of miscarried babies.
If the taxpayers (reactionary wingnuts) learn that there are thousands of 20 week old brain dead fetuses on ventilators and feeding tubes around the country and that they are footing the bill I think the greedy bastards will oppose this law like a school levy. Keeping babies alive is ok with them as long as they don't have to pay for it.
bkny,
And if the baby does, improbably, live, care for life will be fiercely, fiercely expensive.
In order to claim a child as a tax deduction, don't you have to give its social security number? How will that work here?
R. McGeddon,
SSN's are assigned as soon as birth is certified. Our Rosie's birth certificate was wrong the first time, and we went to hunt for her SSN to do taxes, it turned out to be attached to her first, wrong, birth cert, rather than the corrected one.
Starting at the bottom again. Surely, someone has mentioned the Social Security factor. You can't take a deduction unless you have a SS no. for your child. Are these people getting SS nos. for dead children?
Now, I'll read.
if i was one of these women that had this done to me, i would give custody of the child to the state, who would then be responsible for the medical care that i would never be able to adequately provide. a couple of those bills coming due every month will put a stop to this bullshit immediately.
repugs don't give a shit about women but they sure as hell pay attention to the bottom line.
I'm going to start looking into what is required for immigrating into Iran. Need to find some place more liberal than the U.S..
Under the new provision, it is recorded as a live birth followed by a neonatal death, and parents can claim the child as a tax deduction for that year, he said.
This is fucking creepy!
Corporation allowed to take out life insurance policy on employee w/o his knowledge. Typically taken out on employees working in high-risk jobs.
Ah, the much beloved 'Dead Peasant' policy. Yes that's a pip. Most recently, it was used, I believe, to insure two thirds of the Texas Teachers Association Members.....
May I suggest a hobby? Maybe checkers... or stamp collecting - wait, "philatelist" sounds dirty. How bout pine wood derbies? dollies? ant farms? rock collecting? ummm... cross stitching? something....
Ripley
How about MY hobby - genealogy?
Maybe if they did some research into their family history, they might get a clue as to WHY they are such Neanderthal assholes!
"repugs don't give a shit about women but they sure as hell pay attention to the bottom line."
--bkny
Not anymore evidently.
Augustine was "engaged" to a 14 year old, the age at which girls became eligible for marriage (and pregnancy, I presume).
Um, no, probably not. The onset of menses and potential conception in that time period appears to have been somewhere around 17 or 18. Marriage, sure. Conception, not very likely.
I just read where the court in England ruled that an 18 month old child be allowed to die the next time she stops breathing.
This child was born way premature, only weighed a pound, is blind, deaf and severely brain-damaged. Her brain and other internal organs are so severely damaged that all she feels is constant pain.
The motion was filed by a group of doctors.
The parents, unbelievably, fought to keep this poor kid in her hell.
Call me cynical, call me a bitch, but why do I have the feeling that the parents don't want this child to be let go because there would an autopsy and maybe a reason why this child was born so early and with all the damge to her organs.
Something doesn't sound right!
Leavitt's aides refused to say who made the inquiries or whether the government had received any complaints of abuse or neglect involving a just-born or aborted fetus.
Only when they're left in the dumpster.
And there are going to be MANY of those if these fuckers succeed in criminalizing abortion!
This is one of the reasons why the international infant mortality comparison which "atrios" quoted a couple of weeks ago was bogus.
This thread has made me cry. Damn anyone who wants to add to a woman's emotional pain at this heartbreaking time with these insane new laws. Damn them to hell.
We had two miscarriages after our first daughter was born, but up here in Canada we can't claim tax deductions on such thing. Not that we would have even thought about such things. When you are dealing with the emotional reprecussions of a miscarriage it's not a time when you think about tax deductions. Well, maybe it is if you are a cold, heartless, slimeball Republican, but when we were experiencing it I could never have even thought about money. I guess the Repukes think about nothing else but money.
Incidentally, after the miscarriages we went on to have twins, and then had an unplanned fourth child.
Ewwww. Someone (s)hat.
So this means women who've had a miscarriage since 2002 have a tax refund coming? It seems they would.
Maybe at tax time, not necessarily the time of the miscarriage, people WILL find the tax deduction irresistable. The right can then point to all the taxpayers who believe that a fetus is a living child. Maybe they calculated that a tax break would bring about this very result.
one day, women will be worth more than their ability to bear a child.
One day.
WOW I'm UNBANNED again! I never know when I'm banned or unbanned or what the reason is, as there's never any notice.
This is a bad policy. People should at least be notified if and when they're banned and why.
-----------------------
The whole fetus thing in TX shows just how opportunistic the whole manipuation of laws concerning fetuses to promote antiChoice politics is; standing on a high moral ground when it's all about demagogy.
And, on the subject, if the Church is so concerned about "life" (let alone the Bush Administration) how come they never place the same emphasis on its PROGRESSIVE pro-life agenda like on the environment, social justice, and peace. Again, it's all about political opportunism trumping true principle in practice.
He also denied that Highview is a "sister church," saying they were more like "very, very distant cousins," with different beliefs, different congregations, and in different branches of the Baptist faith.
Ya see? Even the xians admit that not all xians are the same. How can they have different beliefs if they all claim to be xians?
This quote should be framed and posted on every church in the world.
For shame.
They blinded me with NON-SCIENCE!
"Good heavens, Mr. Bush - you're an idiot!"
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I called the Social Security Office about a month ago and asked if I could get a SS# for my yet to be born child and was told that the SS rule is you have to be "BORN"and live in order to be recognized as a person.If the SS doesn't recognize any fetus until its born I imagine that a fetus doesn't become a person until it's born,right?So if your not a person you don't have the rights given to everyone at birth?What's the big fuss about abortion?
Controlling the female has been a theme to greater and lesser degrees in social groups since time began. Why? "That's the way," my friend's two year old used to say with an uncertain shrug whenever I'd ask him the answer to some nonsensical condition in our interactions. Consider established religions: Christianity, Islam...don't know about Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism. "Primitive" societies: reading in last weeks New Yorker about Papua New Guinea...the women aren't allowed to sleep in the tree house; the Forest People book by Colin Turnbull: the women aren't allowed to see some sacred musical horn. I guess I regard all the piffle about "protecting the unborn" as just another example.
The whole thing is creepy of course, apparently in theory requiring doctors to provide treatment to unviable fetuses...
No it's actually worse than that. It's a step closer to the day when a pregnant woman who has a miscarriage will be charged with MURDER!
There have already been a couple of instances in the USA within the past year, when women gave birth to stillborn children and found themselves charged with murder.
screw integrity-- I'm sexually active and my period was definitely 2 weeks late at some point this year. I'm gonna claim the dependent child deduction, and also claim it retroactively back for every year I filed taxes and had a late period. I never understood pro-lifers' motivation until now--what a windfall!
Miscarriage rates are also climbing all the time. Why? No one is sure. My ob/gyn (who's seen me through 3 of my 4) thinks that women, especially older women with careers, pay so much more attention to their fertility now, particularly if they're trying to conceive, that they know almost from the word go that they're expecting. Our mothers would not have even known they were pregnant until 10 or 12 weeks, long after most miscarriages, but the article is unclear when, exactly, this live-birth reporting would begin. - NYMary
Before I was conceived, shortly after my parents decided that they were ready to have a kid, my mom missed a couple of periods and then has a real "bad" period. It was likely a miscarriage, but no-one really wanted to investigate.
Would this law force people to investigate all such situations? What a horrible outcome: although if you believe killing a fetus/embryo is homocide, you ought to believe such miscarriages should be investigated. What we on the left need to do is confront people with the consequences of their beliefs: you believe killing an embryo is homocide? Do you want every potential miscarriage investigated? I thought not - you must not really believe that killing an embryo is homocide.
Most people are pro-choice. We just gotta make sure they realize it.
As to the issue of "spontaneous abortion" vs. "miscarriage" -- this usage change is a victory for the anti-abortion crowd because it pulls the wind out of our arguments. If people see the link between miscarriages and abortions, they are more likely to see where "pro-life" laws would take us. By obscuring that link, the "pro-life" crowd is able to convince people that abortion is murder without people thinking "if induced abortion is murder, isn't spontaneous abortion involuntary manslaughter?".
Unfortunately, most Americans think so sloppily they don't realize logical consequences of their beliefs. The Rethugs have done quite well exploiting this ignorance in general: not only on abortion but on econs issues as well.
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