I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Hah!
Yeah, but it is too late. They already had the vote. Now if this had happened before the vote...
It'll be another year before it comes up again, from what I understand.
A boycott of Microsoft? ROFLMAO
Then every theocrat in the country would have to switch to Apple...ain't they lefties too?
Heh..um..
The article notes that in an effort to contact the pastor in question, they called the emergency assistance number but noone answered.
*g*
They already had the vote.
You know, I was going to respond with the same old trite about how things are getting better. But I wont. I am bitterly angry at you heteros, (not you personally) for what you've done and continue to do to those like me. I fucking hate all your guts with such and an intensity it's really had to describe my entire life what we've endured. You'll all get yours one day and it looks like that's coming to pass.
I hate it when cool places like this become so popular and populated that you can't move, you can't take it all in, there's like 796 comments on some post from two hours ago. Things like this always happen and it's just some fact of the universe and what can you do.
I wonder if the fundie preacher will go through with his threatened boycott and put M'soft front and center in the culture wars. That would be interesting ... even though Gates & Balmer did the right thing, can anybody really crank up a lot of enthusiasm for defending them. Course, easy for me to say here in Mac land.
Pass the popcorn.
Ô¿Ô, I know that you feel very angry like that, but it's not really fair to hate all heteros. For one thing, we didn't choose to be what we are. For another thing, not all of us are against you. For a third thing, maybe I was gay in my last life and you were a hetero burning me to crisp? For the final thing, we are all human beings.
Incog, as a fellow same-sexer I always find your anger pure and bracing. Regards to String.
The one good thing about Apple is that it has a "HIGH" learning curve. And that's if you are a semi-pro at DOS, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, Win 2000, and Win XP. I just got mine a few months ago and I'm finally getting the feel of it. It doesn't work or feel like a PC. Applications are never where you expect them. Files aren't save where you thought. And so forth. It's a whole new learning experience.
Without any intelligent documentation, the "average' PC user will be completely lost if they purchase an Apple. Intelligent documentation is available...for a price at your local bookstore.
So, It would be hallarious if staunch, anti-gay types dump their PCs for Apples. It'll force them to repurchase use a PC and associated software products from a company that endorses something they are totally against.
regards
.
Whenever I'm forced to use a PC I feel like it's a bad joke. There is no comparison between Macs and Gatescrap. None. Oh OK, I'll venture one: Katharine Hepburn as compared to Lynndie England.
"I fucking hate all your guts with such and an intensity it's really had to describe my entire life what we've endured. You'll all get yours one day and it looks like that's coming to pass."
Can I watch?
.
Fred Astaire as compared to Ronald McDonald.
Katharine Hepburn as compared to Lynndie England.
Ouch! So true.
The Beatles as compared to Cheetos.
um
katherine hebpurn as compared to lala bush.
Eric Severeid compared to Matt Lauer?
This is the third and final time I will post this.
From Chris Hedges' article in the May, 2005 Harpers (sorry I couldn't find it online):
Then as now, Adams (Professor James Luther Admams, ethics professor at Harvard Divinity School, speaking 25 yrs. ago when Jerry Falwell started his rise) said too many liberals failed to understand the power and allure of evil, and when the radical Christians came, these people would undoubtedly play by the old, polite rules of democracy long after those in power had begun to dismantle the democratic state. Adams had watched German academics fall silent or conform. He knew how desperately people want to believe the comfortable lies told by totalitarian movements, how easily those lies lull moderates into passivity.
Adams told us to watch closely the Christian right's persecution of homosexuals and lesbians. Hitler, he reminded us, promised to restore moral values not long after he took power in 1933, then imposed a ban on all homosexual and lesbian organizations and publications. Then came raids on the places where homosexuals gathered, culminating on May 6, 1933, with the ransacking of the Institute for Sexual Science in Berlin. Twelve thousand volumes from the institute's library were tossed into a public bonfire. Homosexuals and lesbians, Adams said, would be the first 'deviants' singled out by the Christian right. We would be the next.
I think we are just about there.
Let's face it, Incog is the canary in the mine. They're already kicking dems out of congregations, the word "liberal" has been totally demonized. I watched Gandolfolo on "Now" last night. The right has managed to change the vocabulary to where "progressive" = "socialist".
We are fucked.
Any breathing human above the age of five who can read and write, as compared to George Bush.
OK, I could go on all morning. Time for bed. Good saturday, sweet 'bats.
Did you know that bats practise altruism of a kind? After a night's hunting a lucky bat might share food with a bat who didn't do so well, even if the two are unrelated by blood.
Then the roles are expected to be reversed if luck goes the other way round. If, however, the second bat refuses to reciprocate, the first donor bat will never donate to that specific bat again. Interesting.
One thing for certain, you surely don't want John pissed off at you. I really admire his work over there.
For the final thing, we are all human beings.
Echidne of the snakes
Look, I'm the lead in homosexual thinking these days. I've got to voice for them all.
QL, I've been meaning to buy that Harper's but seriously wondered if I could stand it. I decided to take the plunge the other day in the bookstore with only a five-spot in my pocket - and the cover price said $6.50. Six the fuck fifty?!
I'll still go back and buy it eventually, but damn! That was some fresh sticker shock.
I know, Incog. I'm just saying what I feel.
The right has managed to change the vocabulary to where "progressive" = "socialist".
We are fucked.
QL in NY
AMEN. I'm really sweatin' down here in the land o' Jeb.
QL sez:
We are fucked.
_____________________
yes, we are. truly and surely. and this is just the beginning.
i had been thinking about yesterday's post about NPR, and the comments made by hagerty at the end of her broadcast.
the simple phrase of "and other religions" was left out.
a small, subtle distinction--yet powerful in meaning.
this is how it starts.
dems kicked out of churches, "moral values" (whatever the fuck that means) instituted, liberals disallowed from teaching at colleges. one change here, a little of somthing over here, the media not expressing outrage, but acting complacent.
and the fascist regime's tentacles begin to grasp, then tighten.
This is a really interesting once-a-week read, for a good perspective on things.
http://kunstler.com/mags_diary13.html
It's called "The Clusterfuck Nation Chronicle."
Echidne,
Yes, J. Wilkinson's work. And some bats just cheat. They hang out in the cave all night. Then when everyone comes back, they ask for a feeding. When cheating gets above around 10% in the population, the altruism ends.
I'm not surprised at any new cool thing I learn about bats.
Btw I finally have my two new baby goats. Incredibly smart, agile, fast, and they're little gymnasts too. We built them a makeshift climbing station, and they love to jump and play and show off their moves on it.
bats rock.
moonbats are the species i like best. 
OK, the damn sun is up, it's light out, good night, I mean it!
I know, Incog. I'm just saying what I feel.
Echidne of the snakes
I'm only saying what I feel, too. If anyone wants to challenge what I write, go ahead on.
Sharkbabe
I thought it important enough to buy a second copy (as I was eating when I read the firstt and was rather messy) and photocopied the three articles having to do with the xtian right. I am handing them out to my friends and colleagues as fast as I can. Which I'm sure pisses Harper's off no end, but they are really important.
And I'll bust a cap in they ass, by the way.
My local library gets the Harper's. I should go and read it but I'm too unwell to go out.
With a secret election ballot, how does the East Baptist Church in Waynesville know that all the Democrats are gone?
but I'm too unwell to go out.
What's a matter for you?
What's a mattah for moi?
Incog, I have a sinus infection which appears to have spread to bronchitis. I'm on antibiotics but they haven't started working yet. I feel a little like someone has skinned my insides.
I feel a little like someone has skinned my insides.
omg! i do hope you feel better soon, Echidne.
Ô¿Ô, I know that you feel very angry like that, but it's not really fair to hate all heteros. For one thing, we didn't choose to be what we are. For another thing, not all of us are against you. For a third thing, maybe I was gay in my last life and you were a hetero burning me to crisp? For the final thing, we are all human beings.
Echidne of the snakes | Email | Homepage | 05.07.05 - 5:59 am | #
I'm not quite sure what the point of this is.
Incog says he hates all straights. If I were gay in the current political climate, I probably would to.
So what good does coming back with something like "oh not all straights are bad" or "in the end we're all human" do anybody, gay or straight?
Why not acknowledge the crisis American culture is in, acknowledge that, for whatever reason, gays are being scapegoated now in a way they haven't in a long time, and move on.
Or would you rather be liked than informed about how someone really feels about you? Does it really bother you that much to know that there are people in the world who have a lot of rage against you.
Jeez. If liberals are talking this way, no wonder we don't really understand the way George Bush manipulated 9/11 or the reasons behind why "they" hate us.
Echidne of the snakes
Sorry bout that. Several people at work seem to be having the same problem. Feel better.
... During a 1990 hearing on AIDS education, West proposed that teen sex be criminalized.
The bill, written by the abstinence group Teen Aid, would have made sexual contact – not just sexual intercourse – a misdemeanor for unmarried teenagers 18 or younger. It defined sexual contact as “any touching of the sexual or other intimate parts of a person.”
The bill was ridiculed and got West a lot of negative press, including a National Lampoon Magazine spoof. “Get a Life, Sen. West!” a Seattle newspaper editorialized. But West said he was serious and would push it as far as he could.
“You know, there are a lot of kids out there that want a reason to say no,” he said. The bill died in the Senate on Feb. 1, 1990.
West’s bill was “stupid,” said James Duree, a former Pacific County prosecutor and Democrat who recently retired from private practice. Duree said he wrote to West in 1990, suggesting facetiously that the Legislature pass a law making it a crime for legislators to have sex with one another. “I thought they should stop doing sex in Olympia,” Duree said.
Politicians who take extreme positions on sex are not always what they seem, said Duree, 87.
“I saw people like West when I was a prosecuting attorney,” said Duree. “These people who were so goosy towards sex.….. They’re the ones you’ve got to watch,” he added.
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/
j...5_west_politics
A long story about the Spokane mayor who was recently outed. You know I can't pass up a good line and the last one quoted is pretty good.
The whole story is interesting too. One question is why people waited so long before they outed the two-faced fascist.
The Beatles as compared to Cheetos.
Sharkbabe
I like the way that sounds. Crack me up.
Give 'em hell, Incog. We need more anger.
Harpers is worth the $14.97 a year or so for a subscription. Mine gets read to tatters.
Give 'em hell, Incog. We need more anger.
We don't need more anger. We need less phoniness about the anger that already exists.
That was me. I have no idea who Eva is. Is there an Eva here or anywhere else I've missed?
Does anyone else have odd names thrown up by Haloscan? What does it mean?
Echidne of the snakes, I hope you are feeling better soon. Take care of yourself.
Why not acknowledge the crisis American culture is in, acknowledge that, for whatever reason, gays are being scapegoated now in a way they haven't in a long time, and move on.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good point. Only I would say, don't move on. It is imperative that people begin to understand just what is going on. A friend at work keeps telling me he is surprised at the hate on the liberal blogs. I keep saying, it wouldn't be normal not to have the hate. When I have been called unpatriotic, when Incog and my daughter have been singled out for hate, when liberals are told to give up their citizenship and go back from whence they came. We can't stop hating because then we will be become part of the complacent majority and allow the country to go completely fascist. At the very least we can leave a record for future generations how it happened.
I fucking hate all your guts with such and an intensity it's really had to describe my entire life what we've endured.
Uhh, this homo doesn't share those sentiments at all, and seriously suspects that was/is a "Ô¿Ô" namestealer. I, for one, am relieved to have folks like all of you on our side in this fight against the fascist fundie whackjobs.
If that really was Ô¿Ô and Ô¿Ô feels that way, Ô¿Ô can fuck off.
And Hello here as well. I am alwasy confused by multiple threads. Cannot seem to untangle them, you know?
Uhh, this homo doesn't share those sentiments at all, and seriously suspects that was/is a "Ô¿Ô" namestealer. I, for one, am relieved to have folks like all of you on our side in this fight against the fascist fundie whackjobs.
And yet I remember people absolutely bending over backwards to understand black anger against whites in the late 80s.
Right now almost nobody, even liberals, want to risk being called an "anti-semite" by offending conservative Jews. So even "liberal" democrats sweep any discussion about Israel under the rug.
If any of us used the word "oriental" instead of Asian, everybody would be all over it in a second.
It's just funny how gays, unlike all these other groups, have to suck it up and deal with the fact that "liberal" understanding is now something we've moved beyond. Nope, unlike blacks in the late 80s or conservative Jews, we're perfectly willing to offend gays.
That says a lot about how internalized our bigotry against homosexuality is. Tbby Putzhold was able to hang up a whole discussion by mentioning that nobody who posts here seems to be black. It never came up that half the people on the list might be gay.
55 accusations of anit-semitism at the Air Force Academy. The Third Circuit holding that only "Judeo-Christian" (read Old Testament) prayers be read. Jailing drug addicted women who are pregnant. Where does it end?
I kept asking awhile ago, what the fundies plan on doing with a place like NYC when they take over. Never believed all the conspiracy stuff, but now I wouldn't be surprised if NYC took another, bigger hit. Sure would solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.
Or would you rather be liked than informed about how someone really feels about you? Does it really bother you that much to know that there are people in the world who have a lot of rage against you.
I understand your point, SWR, but Incog's hatred of straights is not only unproductive, it's downright hypocritical and dangerous.
I admit, I hate some people too. But they are the likes of Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, etc. Hating people who are wholeheartedly on your side just because they share the same sexual orientation as some people who hate you is just lashing out with childish reactionary rage, and no wisdom.
Thanks, Incog, for hating the very people bolstering our ranks in the fight against our enemies. I guess that kind of makes you a force against our cause.
SWR, I was reaching for some human contact, not giving a political speech.
I guess this wasn't the time or place for that.
QL in NY, you are so right.
One thing liberals have to get over is their reluctance to speak up. If we don't push our ideas as hard as we can we will never overcome the right's money and their willingness to tell lies and to live them (see above). The truth has to run as fast as it can to catch a lie.
Hate now. Well, anyone who has turned on their TV or radio or gone to any right wing web site knows that there is a a difference between the hate of the right and that of the left. The right will hate you from your skin to your bones and it doesn't stop there. They really would kill us all if they could. That's HATE. Oklahoma City bombing style hate, Tulsa 1921 hate.
The hatred of the left is mostly a reaction to the greed and violence of the right. It is righteous indignation and it is often on behalf of a third party. It is often not on behalf of the person who is feeling it.
And there isn't a mass killing to back up the charge of "hatred on the left".
Ô¿Ô,
There isn't a soul on this earth without some kinda of baggage to carry. This is a place where one can let it out when the frustration builds. Regardlees, we all have common cause to look beyond our petty differences.
The fact that "liberals" are being tossed out of church because of political views is fantastic, in my view. Once it starts then it will escalate to a point where "people" will realize there is s systemic problem "with" church and state.
I just hope it happens before the mid-term elections.
regards
.
In other news, Reid called Bush a loser last night in a speech to a bunch of high school kids....unfortunately, he later called the white house and apologized to Karl.
Morning DWD - No more quiet mornings for a while with our host in a different time zone. Let's see, he said no more cat-blogging for a month, then left the next day for Spain. I figure we've got three more weeks of this upside down schedule.
I understand your point, SWR, but Incog's hatred of straights is not only unproductive, it's downright hypocritical and dangerous.
His mind is stuck in a loop where people won't acknowledge him because he's (admittedly) annoying and repetative and he gets more annoying and repetative because people won't acknowledge him.
Right now, the two most acceptable forms of bigotry are anti-gay and anti-arab. If Incog we're Jewish or black, we'd all look past his being annoying and avail ourselves of the opportunity to "understand him". I'm not saying that there's no bigotry against Jews or blacks just that American culture acknowledges both to exist.
I'm not sure if even liberals acknowledge just how severe anti-gay bigotry is (althouth I have to admit Bob Herbert's column on Emile Griffith seemed to indicate that he gets it).
It's just funny how gays, unlike all these other groups, have to suck it up and deal with the fact that "liberal" understanding is now something we've moved beyond. Nope, unlike blacks in the late 80s or conservative Jews, we're perfectly willing to offend gays.
I agree with your point. We are truly the last demograph it is acceptable to malign and throw to the curb or the wolves. But that in no way justifies hatred of our most staunch defenders of our civil rights (many straight liberals).
The hatred of the left is also tempered by the fact that so many of us have better things to do with our day.
Hate now. Well, anyone who has turned on their TV or radio or gone to any right wing web site knows that there is a a difference between the hate of the right and that of the left.
There's a difference between "hate" and "anger".
It is disconcerting. I sort of like the tail end of the last thread for comfort purposes. After a quick perusal of a few papers: it seems the outrage really is starting a bit. Eighty eight members of congress want to know why Bush lied. MoDo has decided to state the obvious, the bastards running the show now are pretty evil. (Poorly written as always) Father Greeley is calling the bastards sinners for the war. And Tierney in the Times is embarassing himself once again. The abstract say, "The stock market slot machine vs. Washington's i.o.u.'s." Well, then there, asshole. One is a guaranteed benefit and the other is a gamble: what part of that do you not understand?
Much as I'd love to hail John for this announcement, it's awfully convenient for Microsoft to find their moral values after the bill died.
As much as I dislike that former President, "Trust, but verify" is some useful advice to judge whether Microsoft really has reaffirmed its committment, or if it's selling the gay community a sack of magic beans.
I agree with your point. We are truly the last demograph it is acceptable to malign and throw to the curb or the wolves. But that in no way justifies hatred of our most staunch defenders of our civil rights (many straight liberals).
The city government of New York bent over backwards *not* to offend black anti-white activists like Sonny Carson.
The Democratic part bends over backwards not to offend Jewish anti-Arab bigots.
Why are gays different. Why not do the same bending?
True, we eventually got Guiliani in NYC beacause the city government coddled the sister souljah segment of the black community and we'll eventually get a Pat Buchanesque backlash against Jews when the casualty rates in Iraq mount up.
But I'm just amused that we've learned our lessons and decided to be "fair across the board" with gays. Maybe it's because we all know more gays than Jews or blacks, or because we acknowledge the possibility that we could be gay or because we buy into the right's line that it's a "choice."
Dunno. I'm not gay but I sort of identify instinctively with people who are being scapegoated and right now it's gays and Arabs.
Much as I'd love to hail John for this announcement, it's awfully convenient for Microsoft to find their moral values after the bill died.
And now the fundis get to say "look how that mean gay elite victimized Microsoft. No wonder they're able to perscute Christians."
I'm not sure if even liberals acknowledge just how severe anti-gay bigotry is (althouth I have to admit Bob Herbert's column on Emile Griffith seemed to indicate that he gets it).
I think many more liberals actually "get it" than will actually stand up and call it for what it is. It goes to show how little principle so many Democrats in Congress actually have.
By the way, today is 5FREE COMIC BOOK DAY!
WOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!
Just stop by your local comic book shop and pick up some ABSOLUTELY FREE comic books! Bring the kids, grandma, your parole officer, whatever!
Note: This message was brought to you by Eschaton's premiere comic book retailer. (Not a "blogwhore", more like an "industry whoring".)
OK, back to the ranting...
The kicker from Greeley, "The American public is still supine, uneasy about the war, but not willing yet to turn decisively against it. Will that still be the case next year when we "celebrate" the third anniversary of the war? Is the patience of the American people that long-suffering? Is there no outrage left in the country? How many people have to die before the public realizes that American foreign policy is a tissue of lies?
"5FREE"?
WTF?
Damn you, Haloscan!
The only strategy that ever works for minority who are trying to gain rights is to ally itself with other groups. Both other minority groups with different and similar issues and with majority groups who want to help.
One of the worst things that has happened to the gay rights movement was that it became acceptable to express racism and other kinds of bigotry. In some New York City and Boston circles it was almost considered stylish to do so in the late 70s and 80s. And this was AS AIDS was making it imperative to save everyone.
Dividing minority groups from each other and to divide us from members of the majority has only one benefit. And the benefit isn't ours, it is those who want to divide and destroy us. All of us.
I keep hearing the word "HATE" being tossed about, but never any explaiations as to why.
HATRED - Intense animosity or hostility
ENMITY - Deep-seated, often mutual hatred
HOSTILITY - implies the clear expression of enmity;
ANTAGONISM - is hostility that quickly results in active resistance, opposition, or contentiousness;
ANIMOSITY - often triggers bitter resentment or punitive action;
RANCOR - suggests vengeful hatred and resentment;
ANTIPATHY - is deep-seated aversion or repugnance;
ANIMUS - is distinctively personal, often based on one's prejudices or temperament: an inexplicable animus against intellectuals.
It's true that religious wing-nuts pratice Animus with relish. They also have a lot of Antipathy towards anything they consider to be Liberal. They put Animosity to great use as a tool to punish with. And they have learned they can Antagonize the liberals with realtive ease.
That leaves us with Hatred, Enmity, Hostility, and Rancor.
We're even loosing the Hate game too, by all accounts.
Perhaps it may be better to phase "hate" into specific "dislikes" that are easily understandable and identifiable that can't be associated with liberals causes or whining. Who knows, it may nake a difference during the mid-term elections.
regards
.
or because we buy into the right's line that it's a "choice."
That might be more prevalent than I had considered.
Dunno. I'm not gay but I sort of identify instinctively with people who are being scapegoated and right now it's gays and Arabs.
And that's why hatred of straights on our side is lunacy. If Incog wants to hate people who have no actual "dog" in this fight, but instead can't avoid their conscience and take a stand for other people, Incog might as well go take a teaching job at "Liberty" "University", because only there will he/she feel at home with the hatred for people who support gay rights.
I admit that I hate Republicans. I used to make an exception for moderate Republicans but after five years of Bush II there is no denying that Jeffords was the last moderate Republican. There won't be any after this.
The Republican party in 2005 is pretty much the worst and most powerful party in the history of the United States. It is actively killing people and could end up getting us all killed so it can satisfy its greed on a continuing basis.
Dividing minority groups from each other and to divide us from members of the majority has only one benefit. And the benefit isn't ours, it is those who want to divide and destroy us. All of us.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And that is why the left cannot drop gay marriage as so many mainstream dems seem to want to do. If for no other reason than it is pointless as it will still be used to stir up hate and will alienate many dems who may be gay, or have a gay friend or relative. Let's remember kids, Kerry most probably won the election. The fact that 100% of voting machines are owned by two brothers who are committed to getting the vote for the repukes played a big part in the last election.
And here are, nicely playing by the rules when the rules have been thrown out.
So what kind of hatred is it not acceptable to express on these threads? I recall at least one incident where people quickly pointed out that one particular type of anger born out of experiences of oppression should not be generalized here.
QL, Isn't that just it! We play by the rules and they do not. We need to extend the rules in the same manner. Instead of worrying about gays and such, we should show the Repugnicans at their worst: Bob Jones, KKK, Environmental devastation, hate speech, class warfare (they initiated it, we could extrapolate from it) and so on.
And that is why the left cannot drop gay marriage as so many mainstream dems seem to want to do.
And that is why we are relieved to have good people like you on our side.
Fuck Incog, and anyone else who hates the very people bolstering our ranks in this struggle, and doing so only out of their concern for others.
Good morning. The correspondence on this thread is very enlightening, which is one of the reasons I am addicted to this site. Really, that is not the case - I just enjoy all of your 'virtual' company (for lack of a better phrase) so much that I spend a hell of a lot of time reading here and feel all the better for it.
Thanks, Ted, for identifying the "stake" heteros have in the fight. We love our gay friends and relatives and look forward to them obtaining full citizenship in the so-called Land of the Free. If we lacked this empathy, we would be, well, Republicans. Ewwwwww.
Incog lives in La., right?
Now, where else but here can he express his feelings without literally getting hung up?
give a feller a break.
Well Billie:
I enjoy the company and find enlightenment. Most of the posters here make my little ole BA look like a high school diploma. I find I really have to stretch to keep up. Which is usally a good thing, but not necessarily so early in the morning.
I'm always surprised at the enmity Incog draws here. I'm sure there are several people at work who feel the same way about me. I can see them start to roll their eyes when I start a rant. And I consider myself fairly moderate, by NYC standards that is.
Who invented the myth that Microsoft is a such a wonderfully hip place?
They stole all of their early patents
and presented themselves as outlaws.
We were dumb enough to accept this as cool.
They, like Walmart, have squashed thousands of small business, Many of these businesses might have made a positive difference.
Gates pretends to be a philanthropist
It's all a tax writeoff. Most of the organizations he supports have good intentions and zero follw-through (ie UNICEF).
And..keep in mind that charitable tax write-offs are replaced by your taxes.
Microsoft is a stock company. It is controlled by a small group of share holders (Gates, Allen, Balmer etc.) and by large money managers. If they are homophobic, if they have social issues, guess who wins?
We have bought into the idea that Microsoft is something it is not.
Good advertising and marketing.
Image manipultion.
Wake-up !
I find I really have to stretch to keep up
Quilt Lady, you are so right about that.
I've always been fairly well-read and the like, but I really have to think about any point I am going to try to make here and the manner in which I articulate said point. If logic doesn't support said point, then one will certainly be called on this.
One other real bonus is the diversity of experience here. We have folks like yourself that were personally affected by the 9/11 attacks, university professors, rock and rollers, folks from across the pond, and on and on. Makes for a really cool experience.
QL, totally OT: Do you ever do quilts with Drunkard's Path or similar patterns? If so, how do you get the pieces to stay flat?
Cowards. One week too late.
Q.L.
The B.A. is great.
It's the BS we worry about.
QL, totally OT: Do you ever do quilts with Drunkard's Path or similar patterns? If so, how do you get the pieces to stay flat?
Echidne of the snakes
+++++++++++++++++=
Wait five minutes.
Wait five minutes.
? Do the pieces get tired and lie down, then?
We have bought into the idea that Microsoft is something it is not.
Curly,
I agree for the most part. However, what Microsoft actually IS is a major US corp with a lot more power in this country and the world than GM ever had, even in its heyday when it was said "What's good for GM is good for America."
Last night I was still pretty pissed with MS because they conveniently announced their change of heart AFTER the Washington Gay Rights bill was defeated by one freaking vote.
However, the press is really onto this change of heart, and if MS is really serious in its commitment, it will bring pressure to bear on other companies across the board, and then on the rest of the country.
If this is the case, than Ballmer's email message to employees may become an extremely important document.
Yay on John vs. MS.
Boo on Incong's anger management.
Hey gang. I'm going to go off topic for a question.
Can someone explain to me what in the hell "intellectual dishonesty" means?
Or, more to the point, what the dullards on the right mean when they accuse the good folks on the left of "intellectual dishonesty"?
Fuck Incog, and anyone else who hates the very people bolstering our ranks in this struggle, and doing so only out of their concern for others.
You know, whenever I start getting a little weary of our resident drama queen's bitter rantings, some prick like this comes along to snap me out of it...
This is a modified drunkard's path. Mark off the middle and quarter points, then pin. Lotsa pins. Snip in between the points, then practice. By the time you have done a couple hundred they will be flat as pancakes!
When people on the right use it, it means they're projecting.
When serious, uncynical people use it, it means someone is being disingenuous or wilfully ignorant.
Can someone explain to me what in the hell "intellectual dishonesty" means?
Billy B - it's like this: we all, of course, know the indisputable, objective truth that gay marriage will destroy the very fabric of our society, but we pretend that's not the case and keep talking about crap like "civil rights". See, we're being dishonest about something we intellectually understand because we have an agenda. We suck.
Morning NTodd. How's my favorite Friend this morning.
Your pic really does you justice.
QL - morning! I'm sleepy, still suffering from allergies, and am too lazy to get out of bed to make some coffee. But actually I'm doing quite well. It's Spring!
And how are you?
Oh, I'm glad you like my pic. My friend Bill shot that with my camera--he's a filmmaker, but used to do photog and is quite good at capturing the essence of people.
Echidne of the snakes
Speaking of pics, did you do that yourself? It is one of your best! Maybe at Eschcon you give me some pointers on needle point and I can give you some on quilting, though judging by what I have seen, you probably don't need any. I especially liked how you had your snake slivering through the quilting. I have used that on a quilt with birds. Good show!
Good Morning. I saw this last night, excellent. He is good.
Thanks, Barndog for that link up top.
And thanks, Moad Dib for the breakdown of hatred. I guess what I feel for the right and the fundies is best described as ANTIPATHY.
I don't take Incog's rants personally. Maybe I'm just thick skinned, but he's talking about heteros in general, not us personally. His pessimism about the election outcome was correct, and most of us were wrong, so we're in no position to accuse him of being over dramatic.
NTodd and underwhelm -
Thanks for the primer.
Basically we are saying that the phrase, as used by the right, has no meaning.
When people on the right use it, it means they're projecting.
"indisputable, objective truth"
You cats are funny. That, in itself, is the main reason I spend way too much time at Eschaton.
And I have asked this before, QL, but maybe you didn't see it. Do you have any use for a Singer foot treadle machine? I have one I'm trying to give away.
I let incog's anger roll off me as well. I know he's not talking about me because he doesn't know me. I think his anger as expressed here is unconstructive at best, but at least he knows this is a safe place to express it.
incog is right - do you heteros REALLY understand what being gay in Merica is like?
(not that i'd know - being hetero)
It has to be worse than being a black woman, or a muslim -
once the mouthbreathing-idiot public finds out you are gay...the ridicule has no end...worse than the ridicule thrown at women, blacks, muslims, etc.
Worse than ridicule thrown at ANYBODY else!
So all in all in this FREE forum, Incog is spot-on - gay people are truly misunderstood and spoken about like blacks were in the 1850's!!!
I let the ranting get to me once, never again. If someone wants to hate me without knowing me then, whatever.
There's an interesting panel on CSPAN2. Some Iraq vets, a couple of journalists, and Chalmers Johnson.
One vet just said "The draft is great, because then you(the audience) will start to get serious about the war, and how we use the military, because your kids will be the ones dying".
It also didn't help that I'd gone close to a week without puffin'
I don't dispute the essential things Incog rants about. He really just needs to focus his anger where it truly belongs and not on people who are on his team. And really, he drinks way too fucking much, and I say that as somebody who drinks way too fucking much. He's been going off a lot more than before, and it seems he's always got a can of beer in his hand after his night shift when he does.
Blak - congrats on a week of being smoke free!
Can someone explain to me what in the hell "intellectual dishonesty" means?
Example: I know 2+2=4, but I make an elaborate case to you that 2+2=blueberry waffles.
Or maybe it's Saturday morning and I haven't had breakfast yet. Same difference.
You know, whenever I start getting a little weary of our resident drama queen's bitter rantings, some prick like this comes along to snap me out of it...
I'm going to assume Dave didn't read all of this thread. Or, I assume he did, and he meant to say that Incog hating all straight people is fine. But my saying "Fuck Incog, and anyone else who hates the very people [fellow Atriots] bolstering our ranks in this fight [gay rights]" is "prick"-ish.
Here's to shit-stirrers like John A. Microsoft was too late, but at least they have made this public committment for the future.
And I have asked this before, QL, but maybe you didn't see it. Do you have any use for a Singer foot treadle machine? I have one I'm trying to give away.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
I must have missed it. Thanks, but I am in a small apartment and would have no place to put it. Have you tried ebay?
congrats on a week of being smoke free!
Feh. I gave up cigarettes 8 years ago, that's the best you'll get out of me.
If I had to face the world sober 24/7, I'd be dead or in jail by now.
What does it mean when your PC goes down on you?
Is it a gay PC?
If it is, does that mean I'm gay, too?
.
Blak - oh, gotcha. And don't bogart it, okay...
The End - it's not gay if you use a laptop.
And just the fact that Dave used the term "drama queen" makes Incog's point. 
This is the first time Incog has gone off in a few weeks (that I have seen), and some of his recent posts could have been written by RMJ, seems to me.
Posting Remotely:
C-Span has a scientist and an "intellegent design" wackjob on. Guess who is getting the hard questions from the "host"? I suppose it's fair considering that the scientist is probably used to rigorous thought.
Why do those "intellegent design" guys always look like the dorkiest, former YAF member substitute teacher you made fun of in the 1960s? "Intellegent", yeah, sure.
Science, like other forms of truth, is harder to transmitt than superstition and lies. That so many Americans are suckers for pseudo-science is proof of the failure of science teaching in the United States. I'd imagine it causes a lot of smiling in other countries.
I like incognito and I won't judge him but it's counterproductive to dwell on hatred of all heterosexuals. First it isn't right since heterosexuals as a group aren't guilty for the sins of some of them. Second, as pointed out a couple of hours ago, it is damaging to the struggle for justice. Third, it turns off a lot of people who would probably like to listen to other things he has to say.
He has to judge whether it is worth it for himself but it seems like an unskillful practice to me.
NTodd- You may, or may not, have noticed that I disappeared for a while in March/April. I figured if I couldn't let shit like that roll off my back, especially from one of our own, I needed to step aside for a bit.
I don't have a digital camera. I just thought I would check with you before I gave the Singer away to anyone else. I don't want any money, just want to find it a good home.
Is our children and pets just objects,
To be abused by subhuman sects?
As the Lumpster explained,
Even horses are shamed.
Lord, please stomp on these fucking insects.
QL-
I'll pick up that Harper's issue today. Have you ever read his book "War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning"? I've bought several copies to give to friends.
EPTXoloitzcuintle -flip your dial to CSPAN2.
I think his anger as expressed here is unconstructive at best, but at least he knows this is a safe place to express it.
This queer has trouble tolerating other queers who hate all straight people out of spite, including the ones who are on our side and crucial to our political defense. I understand the frustration perfectly, but for gay people to condemn the hatred against them, and then turn around and hate people who are trying to help them, is just schizophrenic and stupid.
Seriously, if Toby Pretzeldick came in here expressing outright hatred for an entire segment of the population (which I believe he's done before), he would be rightly and roundly bashed. But Incog starts off a new thread condemning and hating all straight people, and some express sympathy towards that attitude.
UT heckling arrest raises hackles — and concern over school policy
A student who cursed, gestured after Ann Coulter's speech is escorted out in handcuffs
By JEFFREY GILBERT and TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle
AUSTIN - Note to hecklers at the University of Texas: When jeering, keep it clean or face possible arrest.
Ajai Raj, a 19-year-old English major, thought he was exercising his right to free speech when he quizzed conservative pundit Ann Coulter on her definition of marriage after a lecture she delivered at the LBJ Library.
Trouble was, he used profanity and then made obscene gestures while walking away from a microphone set up for the question-and-answer portion of Tuesday's event.
Moments later, university police were inside the library's auditorium, handcuffing Raj.
He first thought they were there to tell him to leave, Raj said. Instead, he was told he was under arrest.
"That's the scary part of it ... I asked them what for?" he said Friday. "I kind of recoiled a little bit. They said they didn't know actually. They were just following orders from I don't know who. They were just following orders."
Can someone explain to me what in the hell "intellectual dishonesty" means?
Using the form of rational argument to promote what is patently false especially for unstated motives unrelated to the search to find the truth of the argument.
"Intellegent design" deserves to be the model of intellectual dishonesty.
For example, "intellegent design" is not primarily a search for the truth about the origins and mechanism of the universe and life on earth. It is a ruse to promote biblical fundamentalism but only secondarily. It's primary motive is to put a religio-fascist oligarchy in power in order to destroy democracy and other products of the enlightenment.
What does it mean when your PC goes down on you?
It thinks you're hot.
Is it a gay PC?
Dunno. How do you "sex" a PC to learn its gender?
There is another picture of Fredo holding hands with a furr-in-er on the cover of today's NYT. This time it's the president of Latvia, a very stern, solidly built early 60-something woman.
Fredo looks as though his grandma was leading him off Air Force One.
Last word on Incog - Doesn't he kind of bring it home that all this crap has real meaning? I live in NYC so dems being thrown out of church, or kids being made to feel bad because they don't worship the same way the majority does, just doesn't happen here. But there are real world consequences for what has been going on and Incog is a perfect example of what happens when one group is not only marginalized but maligned for who and what they are. And see my post at 6:17. Fascism is definitely on the rise in this country. It only begins with gays and lesbians. If they get away with this, they'll just move on to another group that can be identified and seperated from the pack.
GD MRNNG!
MPCH BSH!
FCK BSH!
FCK MRSFT!
FCK BLL GTS!
HV NC DY!
Blak - ahhhhhhh. I thought mebbe you were just wicked busy.
Intelligent design is another attempt to bring meaning to a complex world by substituting the courage to accecpt what experience demonstrates with superstition.
My Tiki told me so.
.
What does it mean when your PC goes down on you?
We are talking lap top?
I've got to confess that I'm going to switch to one of those mini-Macs as soon as it comes. The PC I bought sucks.
I heard the speech Hedges gave at a college commencement, back at the beginning of the Iraq war, that caused him to get booed by the pro-war crowd. I guess I'll have to pick up Harper's too, but I've already got a 3 month backlog of New Yorker issues to read. Right now they're doing an excellent 3 part series on global warming, very detailed and scientific.
I can't wait for the fundies to boycott Microsoft. There's no way they'll use an Apple, so it's straight to Linux.
Good luck with that guys.
Real Texan: No I haven''t, but after your recommendation, you can bet I will be right there at the bookstore come Monday morning.
I've got to confess that I'm going to switch to one of those mini-Macs as soon as it comes.
I bought a Mac Mini a few weeks ago, and I love it! I still haven't sent in my coupon for Tiger (I just made the cutoff date for a $10 upgrade instead of $120), but I so very much love being back in the Mac world. I still use my Dell Latitude (am right now), but I'm slowly moving more and more over to the Mac when I'm home--all my podcasts are produced on it, for example. Just need to pick up my Airport/Bluetooth card so I can use our satellite Internet and I'm golden.
How to sex a PC:
Perhaps it's a hardware issue, rather than one of software...
How big is your hard drive?
In what looks like a similar attempt by the Christo-fascists to force everyone into their theocratic mold, check out the BBC story on Starbucks' banning the new Springsteen CD from their stores.
Info here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/enter...ent/
4520531.stm
If they get away with this, they'll just move on to another group that can be identified and seperated from the pack.
This has been borne out by history, of course. So I guess I can't take the fascist hatred too personally (being gay), since I'm just on the top of a very long list.
As soon as more file-sharing programs and games have versions for Linux, bye bye windows.
Can Linux do DVD yet?
How big is your hard drive?
It's not the size of the hard drive that matters, it's the quality of data on it. And how fast you can access it. And it's mean time to failure.
Boy, this is almost as much fun as Star Wanking...
This is a pretty good interview with Hedges about the book
http://tinyurl.com/88m64
How to sex a PC:
Do people still say "female" and "male" plugs? Mine has both. It is as stupid as a rooster or a buck goat after it reaches sexual maturity so I'd have to say it's a Republican frat boy.
Can Linux do DVD yet?
Wasn't DeCSS a Linux app?
"We are truly the last demograph it is acceptable to malign and throw to the curb or the wolves."
HA! Except for women, of course.
But it's so ingrained in our culture no one sees it anymore.
Wasn't DeCSS a Linux app?
Dunno...
Sometimes it is tough to know what to think.
One way to look at incogis rants is to substitute the word "blacks" or "n-word" for his use of "heteros" and see how it sounds. By that standard a lot of what he writes is pretty offensive. (Along the same lines, a normally sane Atriotte once posted a comment to the effect that half the population [men] can only think with the lower half of their body, which if you had substituted the word black people would be beyond the pale. To her credit, she saw the point once it was mentioned. And in her defence, there are biological reasons why what she said is actually true to some extent, and true for many species, not just ours)
On the other hand, as was noted upthread, there is very likely no single group, with the possible exception of Arabs, who are the target of more bigotry than gays, especially gay males, in the US.
That can explain a lot, but how much I can't possibly know because I have never had to deal with what he deals with.
So I just ignore incog when he gets going.
EPT - male/female is still used, but mostly it's pin/socket now. I had to relearn the terminology because I taught at a place that had a very stringent pluralism policy, to the point where you couldn't say pretty much anything--terms like "whiteboard", "blackhole", "reverse polish notation", and "male/female connectors" were verboten.
Anyway, most computers these days are hermaphrodites. Handy, that.
BlakNo1: MythTV is just one media-jukebox type application on Linux that'll play DVDs. (It's actually a front end for your choice of DVD apps. I use Xine.)
I can't wait for the fundies to boycott Microsoft. There's no way they'll use an Apple, so it's straight to Linux.
Boycott, schmoycott. They launched a "boycott" against Disney. That went well, didn't it? Some of these boycotters are so stupid they declare they are no longer taking their kids to DisneyWorld, and then plop them down in front of a TV playing a movie produced by Buena Vista, Touchstone, or many other Disney-owned outfits. Then they sit down for ABC's Tuesday night lineup, and call it wholesome family entertainment. It's hilarious.
Perhaps it's a hardware issue, rather than one of software...
How big is your hard drive?
10.2......
Actually DeCSS was a windows app that was a proof of concept (and probably a deliberately provocative gedankenexperiment) for the technology that would go into a linux app.
But Incog starts off a new thread condemning and hating all straight people, and some express sympathy towards that attitude.
Ted - 9:21 am
it is the duty of progressives to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted...
whom would you judge 'afflicted'?
ask yourself with whom you'd rather change places, given all you know about either of them: Toby or Incog?
Ba'al - well said, as usual.
I like playing with Incog almost as much as I like playing with trolls, much to everybody's chagrin. You'll all be happy to know that I don't pick at scabs any more, though.
QL, thanks for the advice on Drunkard's Path. I was afraid that it is up to practice...
My PC is metrosexual, I think. Or it likes dust.
Heh. Wolcott:
"Bush has the privileged soul of an inveterate ingrate."
Can someone explain to me what in the hell "intellectual dishonesty" means?
Doing a so-called inquiry when you have a pre-determined answer in mind, and then bending all of your observations and arguments to make sure you get the predetermined result.
David Brooks is a good example of intellectual dishonesty.
Or he might just be unable to use evidence and logic for some odd wingnut reason.
Good point (and well said), WGG.
How big is your hard drive?
It's not the size of the hard drive that matters, it's the quality of data on it.
I got your hard drive/data hanging. Hhahahaha. I don't know if anyone saw this little gem yet, but Pope Ratzi fired the Jusuit priest who edits a weekly, moderate to liberal Catholic magazine because he dares publish both sides of sensitive issues in his mag. Stunned co-workers are shocked that such a moderate man would be stripped of his position for his temperate views. Not me!
In what looks like a similar attempt by the Christo-fascists to force everyone into their theocratic mold, check out the BBC story on Starbucks' banning the new Springsteen CD from their stores.
Ha,ha, like he needs Starbucks to sell his albums. I'm at the Boss Central here in Monmouth Cty, NJ. I wonder if my local rag knows about this.
Bush has the privileged soul of an invetebrate intestine.
Well, I read the whole thread, and exclaimed "D'oh!" when Dave wrote pretty much what I was thinking!
Dontcha hate that? But isn't it fun, too, like when two people exclaim the same thing at the same time? This site is good for eliciting those kinds of doublefeelings. Another common one, which I commented upon recently, is yielding to the urge to comment at the end of a dying thread, and while doing so feeling stupid and frustrated for ranting on when everyone else has seemingly left the room.
Anyway, like Dave and others, I am OK with Incog's rants, though I admit that I don't particularly welcome them because most of us have heard the rant so often that it gets old.
But his authenticity and legitimate righteousness doesn't. And I find that I am hostile to those who would kick Incog off the bar stool and toss his persecuted ass out into the night to make room for their comfort.
BTW, I wonder if there were occasions when miners died because they got so fed up with the goddamn canary chirping that they just squashed the bugger with a shovel or something, so they could keep working with a little peace and quiet.
I can imagine a Python or Beyond the Fringe skit including this detail:
"Eh, whot'd y'do that for? How will we be able to tell when the poison gas builds up?"
"Oh yeh, right. I forgot. I just got so tired of that bloody bird noise... ah well, I'm in for it now!"
I bought a Mac Mini a few weeks ago, and I love it!
Me too, great little box. Got out the putty knife and completed a memory upgrade have Xwindows running so's I can use my Linux applications, And am waiting patiently for Apple to ship Tiger (allready purchaced, as I too unwittingly made the cut-off date for upgrade).
Another happy mac user.
"Intelligent design" can't be sound,
Or we wouldn't have Chimpy around.
What kind of half-assed god
Would create such a clod.
The Chimp wriggles beneath horse and hound.
bigvic, is the weekly magazine America, by any chance?
It's one of the few things that makes me want to continue to be Catholic; if the Pope is fucking with that, it's one more brick in the wall.
Speaking of intellectual dishonesty, Tierney is fucking horrible. He admits in this column that his column about how his rich whiteman ass would be better off if he lived in Chile, wasn't really a good column because he neglected to discuss an important part of the debate: " the numbers were impressive....but they're not as important as another consideration: which type of pension is riskier".
Then he uses this column to finish his hack job on SS by spouting more bullshit: “In theory, there is a trust fund to cover this shortfall”, Democrats haven’t offered a plan and are “just following the first rule of politics: get re-elected”. Blah blah blah…
I hate this guy.
There's an interesting panel on CSPAN2. Some Iraq vets, a couple of journalists, and Chalmers Johnson...
Chalmers Johnson is one of the most percipient critics writing today...
he is so smart and knows so much, and knows where to look for what he doesn't already know...
He may exercise his tonsils and make concerned noises, but he will dedicate himself no more vigorously to global warming than he has done for the last four pissed-away years.
Oh, how I love me some Wolcott. The man is a great wit.
ask yourself with whom you'd rather change places, given all you know about either of them: Toby or Incog?
And what, exactly, does this have to do with Incog hating all straight people, and some posters here (including yourself) expressing sympathy for that hatred?
I'm gay, so I can speak with some knowledge of the situation: hating straight people, especially those who are actively helping to win your civil rights, is stupid, self-destructive, and should be no more tolerated than Ted Smith or Toby Pretzeldick posting about their own particular hated people.
Pluralism is evident in all things the Intelligent Designer has made.
Black/White; Gay/Not Gay; Republican/Democrat; Birds/Bees...
Even in the digital world where, clearly, ones are male and zeros, female...
Ted, I fundamentally agree with you. Being straight, I don't feel entirely comfortable being the one saying it.
Sean Tierney is so lame and predictible I could write his column for him and be dead on. He just types up the weekly GOP talking points to a word and calls it a column. He doesn't bother to throw one or two reasonable statements in to gum up the works like Bobo does.
I don't know if anyone saw this little gem yet, but Pope Ratzi fired the Jusuit priest who edits a weekly, moderate to liberal Catholic magazine because he dares publish both sides of sensitive issues in his mag.
Yeah, I just saw that. I decided not to blog it because I got Popapalooza out of my system a couple weeks ago. But it's nice to see that every time I think I'm being too critical of the One True Church (not the lay people, mind, but the hierarchy), it does something that confirms I'm being too nice by half.
Sorry that was supposed to be Sean, Tier...
In the course of a discussion on filibusters and Senate rules, Washington's top Democrat gave the 60 juniors a lesson in partisan politics, particularly about the commander in chief. "The man's father is a wonderful human being," Reid said in response to a question about President Bush's policies. "I think this guy is a loser.
Reid later phoned the Review-Journal to acknowledge he thought he crossed the line.
"You know the president is in Europe," Reid said in an interview this afternoon. "But I called (Karl) Rove and apologized for what I said."
Own you, bitches.
Ted - Amen, bro.
OT: Couple more USer mercenaries killed in Bagdhad today
when mercenaries kill for profit, they sell their rights...
all i'm sayin...
Thank you Little Brøther that I never had.
Biggest laugh of the day (so far):
From the Sunday NYT Magazine "Quesions For" interview of Christopher Shays (R-CT):
Have you ever considered becoming a Democrat?
Never. The Democratic Part is the party of a collection of special interests.
It's not as if the Republicans are impervious to special interests. What about the oil companies?
Yeah, but we don't add up our special interests and then have them define us. When we vote the way some demployers want us to vote, that's the way we fell. It's a part of what we believe in.
Oh, and he also has the requisite "Bu-bu-bu-but CLINTON" moment...
IN response to a previous question...
Jesuit Magazine Editor Quits Amid Conflict
By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 7, 2005; Page A02
The Rev. Thomas J. Reese, editor of the Jesuit magazine America and one of the nation's foremost commentators on Roman Catholicism, has resigned from the publication after years of tension with the Vatican.
The New York-based weekly announced that its new editor will be the Rev. Drew Christiansen, a fellow Jesuit who was recruited as a writer and editor by Reese in 2002.
The magazine's statement did not give any explanation for Reese's departure, effective June 1. But the National Catholic Reporter, an independent publication, said he resigned at the request of the Jesuit order after five years of pressure from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican department formerly headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XV
"You know the president is in Europe," Reid said in an interview this afternoon. "But I called (Karl) Rove and apologized for what I said."
Own you, bitches.
I think Reid pwns the GOP. What a brilliant move: say what's on everybody's mind then pre-emptively call Rove, the true preznit, to apologize before the wingers are up in arms. The story stays alive a little longer, plants another seed, and shows that Reid ain't afraid to speak his mind. He uses kid gloves, with a brick inside. I love that man.
Nora,
Yes! America, out of NY. This pope is a lying bastard. He promisses to reach out to all the faithful one day and acts like a complete thug the next.
But his authenticity and legitimate righteousness doesn't.
I see. Well, the next time some racist bigoted troll comes in here espousing hatred for a group of people, I hope, Little Brother, that you'll equally admire the troll's "authenticity and legitimate righteousness." I, for one, don't find hating huge segments of the population out of spite to be "righteous."
And I find that I am hostile to those who would kick Incog off the bar stool and toss his persecuted ass out into the night to make room for their comfort
Uhh, I'm gay as well, which includes the persecution. Calling Incog on his ridiculous hatred of all straight people isn't for my own "comfort." It's to point out crap that is unproductive and damaging to my segment of the population.
I can't believe the apologetics going on in here from a very few people for some gay guy declaring he hates all straight people.
Hey NTodd - I just listened to your podcast. Not bad, my man. You have a really nice voice for radio, and your points were well delivered, well thought out, and well laid out. Sheeet. I will have to start thinking of you as one of them intellectuals I'm always hearing about.
Seriously, I will make it a point to find time to listen to the rest.
NTodd ...
I thought exactly the same thing when I saw that story. Reid is no dummy. He called Fredo a "loser" knowing full well he would call Rove immediately afterward. I'm willing to bet that they had a good laugh over it, too.
he resigned at the request of the Jesuit order after five years of pressure from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican department formerly headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XV
proving again that nobody--not even the Jesuits themselves,apparently-- ever expects the Inquisition...
Lobbyist's team found welcome at White House
Abramoff's ties to Bush go as far back as 1997, documents show
By SHARON THEIMER
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - During President Bush's first year in the White House, the administration had roughly 200 contacts with Republican fund-raiser Jack Abramoff and his lobbying team as they sought to influence Bush's hires and pressed him to keep the Northern Mariana Islands free from the minimum wage law, documents show.
During the Clinton years Abramoff, then at the Preston Gates law firm, scored few meetings with White House aides as the lobbyist and the islands opposed the Clinton administration's attempts to extend U.S. labor laws to the territory's clothing factories.
...two of Abramoff's lobbying colleagues on the Marianas won political appointments to federal agencies: Patrick Pizzella, named an assistant secretary of labor by Bush, and David Safavian, chosen by Bush to oversee federal procurement policy in the Office of Management and Budget.
In all, the records show at least 195 contacts between Abramoff's Marianas lobbying team and the Bush administration from February through November 2001.
The thing about the victory with Microsoft is that it wasn't just us gays screaming at that company, it was a huge chunk of liberals/progressives howling and putting the pressure on by way of press releases and the like.
And that is why I think Ted's comments are dead on. I decided a long time ago that playing victim was hazardous to my health and that getting like minded people's attention and empathy was far more effective.
I suspect Incog is close to that point, at least I hope so.
On Topic: Congratulations Microsoft on choosing human progress over bigotry.
Off Topic: Speaking of Chalmers Johnston ((and by association Empire), Check out what these guys are up to (found via Max Speak).
American Enterprise Institute is sponsoring the following book forum to discuss the following:
"In Praise of Empires Print Mail
Globalization and Order"
Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:00 AM
Wohlstetter Conference Center, Twelfth Floor, AEI
1150 Seventeenth Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20036
Next time you run into a strick constructionist ask them how American Empire fits in with the founders intent. Oh, and about that blowback thingy.....
The voice mail Friday at Hutcherson's church did not allow for messages, and a call to an emergency assistance number went unanswered. There is no listing for his home.
It would be pretty cool if they kept hounding the church folk, since the church folk keep hounding the lawmakers to not allow gay marriages, etc...
QL - thanks very much!
For the most part I think I've found my voice, but I'm still tweaking and learning. Particularly with the Gaggle shows, where I need to stop getting into "lecture mode" and keep the focus on Scottie's shuck and jive, I want to keep things flowing more smoothly. Sarah Deere had admonished me to slow down (another difficult thing for me, but something I've always been aware of), and I'm working on that as well.
Only been doing it for a few weeks, and it's been a hoot. I was so disappointed when I couldn't get back into college radio when I moved to VT (long, annoying story), so it's nice that I can now combine some of my DJ stuff with blogging.
Issuing public apologies is my gameplan. Makes me look strong.
I'm a genius.
In the course of a discussion on filibusters and Senate rules, Washington's top Democrat gave the 60 juniors a lesson in partisan politics, particularly about the commander in chief. "The man's father is a wonderful human being," Reid said in response to a question about President Bush's policies. "I think this guy is a loser.
Holy shite. That is sheer genius. I think I shall write Mr. Reid a letter of thanks.
The Times article explicitly describes the firing as "under orders from the Vatican." The former cardinal Ratzi had *issues* with the mag. before he became pope and wasted no time firing the priest.
I think Harry is trying to provoke him into a fist fight. He needs to use his other skills and really kick some ass. He can start w/ Lieberman.
This from the "Now I feel very reassured" department....
U.S. Tells U.N. It Remains Opposed to Torture, Abuse
By Colum Lynch
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 7, 2005; Page A09
UNITED NATIONS, May 6 -- The Bush administration reaffirmed its commitment to prohibiting torture in a report Friday to the U.N. Committee on Torture, citing the prosecution and punishment of U.S. troops accused of abusing detainees at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.
But the 95-page report, which focused primarily on police abuses within the United States, avoided any discussion of the CIA's role in transferring secret "ghost detainees" to foreign countries for interrogation. It also sidestepped the question of whether U.S. authorities are obligated to bar the mistreatment of detainees held outside the United States.
RIL - yeah, this Reid feller shoulda been in charge long ago. Did ya ever hear his rabbit filibuster from 2003? I whored this over at First Draft a coupla months ago, but people might not have seen it. I watched it live on CSPAN and it still kills me--ooh, wonder if I can find some audio and include it in a podcast...
"But I called (Karl) Rove and apologized for what I said."
OK. So Reid called the president and apologized for what he said about his puppet. Sometimes I think it's not fair to criticize Bush. He's only doing what he's told to do by the president.
The only thing anyone should be saying to Rove is "Fuck You".
U.S. Tells U.N. It Remains Opposed to Torture, Abuse
Well, that should start a groundswell of reassurances from people everywhere. For the record, I am still opposed to kicking puppies, eating babies, and burning people alive in ovens.
More fund-o wack-o angst brought to you by Ba'al.
Hello. I am new to these forums. I am of Baptist religion, but am converting into Catholic soon. I have a major question I have been needing an answer to. First let me tell you my story. A few years ago at about the age of 11 I was baptised Baptist. I knew nothing of any other religions. At around age 12 to 13 I started to commit adultery. My religion teacher likes to call it the big M [masturbation]. Anyways, I had no idea what mortal sin or anything of that matter was back then. So, it was impossible for me to commit mortal sin back then because I didn't have full knowledge about it. I am in 9th grade, and this is the first year I have started studying theology and the Catholic religion. I still commit the big M [masturbation] and I know that it is wrong. Therefore, I did commit a mortal sin. I have had many chances to go to confession, but had been scared because I'm not Catholic and I didn't want to mess up or anything. It has been a few months into school, and I can't possibly remember all the mortal sins I've commited. I commit so many, the big M [masturbation] is on my mind more and more and more. My question is, how do you get rid of mortal sin that you can't remember, or can you? Please help me, I am starting to feel dirty, and I am tired of going to sleep on wet sheets.
...this Reid feller shoulda been in charge long ago.
One thing that is so disarming about Reid is that he looks and sounds like everyone's granddad. I think that plays in his favor, especially when Harry is giving 'em hell.
Ted, I fundamentally agree with you. Being straight, I don't feel entirely comfortable being the one saying it.
Ba'al is neither straight, nor gay, neither male, nor female. It is just Ba'al.
U.S. Tells U.N. It Remains Opposed to Torture, Abuse
My ass. Sorry. Too late to shut the barn door after torturing, killing and shipping suspects off to secret locations to be tortured. I hate Bu$hCo.
For those of you who actually sleep in on Saturday morning:
fresh madeleines in ten minutes. Coffee and tea will be available as well.
I am starting to feel dirty, and I am tired of going to sleep on wet sheets.
Ba'al -- 10:13 am
Lord Ba'al, where did you find Toby's diary?
Lord Ba'al, where did you find Toby's diary?
WoodyGuthriesGuitar (aka...) | Email | Homepage | 05.07.05 - 10:16 am | #
Hahahahahaha - that was soo damned funny!
RMJ,
only been up for about 1/2 hour or so - already on second cup of coffee and working on one of my own grand marnier brownies.
i'm getting old - one lousy pint of beer and i'm hung over. pisses me off. i used to be able to hold my liquor...
Res,
I agree. Grandpa Reid does give 'em hell in a softspoken manner. Hoo boy, calling Shrub a loser was killer good.
...grand marnier brownies.
watertiger ... You selling these baked treats around town anyplace?
Ted
The Canaanites attibuted a wife to me, Ba'al, named Asherah or Astarte, depending on which of them you read, but of course, you are right. Think of me as one giant olfactory organ.
i'm getting old - one lousy pint of beer and i'm hung over. pisses me off. i used to be able to hold my liquor...
watertiger
Me, too. Now I spill so much of it, it's take twice as much to even get buzzed.
Oops! Problem with madeleines: they cook fast!
Think of me as one giant olfactory organ.
That's how I've always thought of you.
...this Reid feller shoulda been in charge long ago.
Now if we could get someone like Reid for the leadership position in the House. With all due respect to her fans, I am not a Pelosi fan. She was positively awful on Little Georgie last week and I don't think she's great in general.
One thing that is so disarming about Reid is that he looks and sounds like everyone's granddad
I think he does an excellent job in interviews and giving a speech and it's b/c of this. I'm easily distracted when watching or listening to something but his tone and presentation of the issues hooks me. Maybe some people get turned off by it, but not me.
watertiger ... You selling these baked treats around town anyplace?
res, pop me an email and we can talk!
i'm getting old - one lousy pint of beer and i'm hung over. pisses me off. i used to be able to hold my liquor...
watertiger
Geez. I hope this doesn't happen to me. I saw watertiger's pic, too. Not too old at all. Now, it takes putting away a case of beer myself at a party to get me hungover.
I don't know what the big deal is about that Baptist church in North Carolina expelling members. Landover has been doing it ... and worse .. for years.
You could wave a drink under my nose and I'd be hung over.
Oh, I just love madeleines. Belly rumbling. Off to the bakery.
Go visit www.bloggytainment.blogspot.com!
For those of you who actually sleep in on Saturday morning
No sleep on Sat. mornings when you have active cats in the house.
i'm getting old - one lousy pint of beer and i'm hung over. pisses me off. i used to be able to hold my liquor...
++++++++++++++++++++++
Best thing about menopause - I can drink. I swear, I would just walk by and smell red wine, and I would wake up with the worst hangover. Believe me, I am making up for lost time. I have 2 and sometimes 3 glasses every night!
Go visit www.bloggytainment.blogspot.com!
Bloggytainment! | Email | Homepage | 05.07.05 - 10:29 am | #
That was the laziest, most crappy blogwhoring I've ever seen. Didn't make the address a URL, didn't include a URL in the Homepage, nothing. I guess this blog's good enough for the copy and past I'd have to do.
Also, the worst blog name I've ever heard of.
Reminds me of the stupid crap I did when I was 16 to promote my BBS.
Think of me as one giant olfactory organ.
++++++++++++++++++
heehee, you said organ.
ted,
while i still LOOK young, the years of moderation take their toll...
and bless your heart, darlin'.
Watertiger,
I developed the same problem. My take on it was that I was drinking alcohol too late in the day, and going to sleep mucked up the metabolizing of all the sugars in alcohol.
I switched to having my martinis earlier in the day.
Can I just re-state the obvious about how much haloscan SUCKS?
Often, when I re-open comments, it will only show a portion of the comments - not the end of the thread. And for the past several days, whenever I try to refresh comments, it locks up.
A, I know you have your reasons for sticking with haloscan and have cited them on a number of occasions - I'm just wondering how bad it has to suck before you dump it.
fellow NYers -
any of you listen to WNYC? Is it me or didn't they just fucking HAVE a pledge drive?
No sleep on Sat. mornings when you have active cats in the house.
FeralLiberal
Je comprends. Fortunately, ours are old and lazy now.
Diane,
I wouldn't mind a vodka & tonic for breakfast. But chores to do...
More wack-o fund-o angst.
When I agreed to follow the direction of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and take His message of divine Justice to the sinners of this wretched world I had no idea the kinds of mockery and rebellion and outright refusal to obey the Voice of the Lord I would be met with by sinners who are so intent on diving headfirst into HELL that they will stop at nothing to defeat God's Message (as if!) but I admit I was no more prepared for the types of homosexuals and prostitutes and liberal Democrats than were Moses or Jonah or John the Baptist and so I can only thank the Lord God who sent me on this Holy Mission for putting me into such good company of whom I mean of course Moses and Jonah and John the Baptist and not these wicked sin-supping perverts whom I have been sent to save by delivering to them the Gospel of Truth which is the Truth that they will all BURN IN HELL if they do not heed the Message God has given to me to deliver to them. Amen.
Unfortunately for me the mission field God has given me is that of a pornographic message board and I have for your edification continued posting the Words of the Lord delivered through me and the unmitigated rejection of that Message. Amen.
My dear sweet cherub angelbecca2000 I am sorry you moved in with your boyfriend just so you could have wild passionate sex all the time which is no different than a dog eating its own vomit according to Proverbs 26:11 but there is still hope for both you and your illicit lover as you can both pray the sinner's prayer at http://777.nventure.com/
sinnersp...nnersprayer.htm and avoid HELL which you both so clearly seem to be intent upon arriving at as quickly as possible with your fleshly lusts.
WT - yeah, the drives seem to be coming more often. I will not donate again while they have that haggerty bitch shilling for the fundies.
All a good piece of beef needs is a little bit of cooking and a sprinkling of salt and pepper. Of course, you can get more elaborate - whiskey makes a nice marinade.
.....Did anyone catch that Angus that was wandering through?
and in case anyone is still feeling a little sleepy, let this minor blogwhore give you a wake-up call.
That Baptist Church in NC should expel all of their Windows users or make the congregation convert to using Macs. If you support Bush, then you can't support Microsoft.
Can I just re-state the obvious about how much haloscan SUCKS?
Often, when I re-open comments, it will only show a portion of the comments - not the end of the thread. And for the past several days, whenever I try to refresh comments, it locks up.
What Jennifer said, many times over. Aargh.
Fortunately, ours are old and lazy now.
Middle aged and demanding here, I gave up and got up at 6:30, but at least I got the new light fixture wired and working already this AM.
Okay Ba'al, you making this shit up?
Ba'al,
I hope someone told that poor young man about Depends. Good sleepwear for young 21st century Christian men. It will help save is immortal soul.
Excuse me, I will go pray for him now.
Yeah, Jennifer, Haloscan ate my last post with a 404 "page not found". I'd copied the text, though, and tried a second time. Then Haloscan "accepted" my post, but lovingly exclaimed that it was a "duplicate post".
I considered "third time's a charm", but didn't want to risk all three suddenly popping up. Neither the original post nor the putative "duplicate" ever showed up.
Sometimes it ain't worth all the agro.
Gays all use Apples anyway
Jennifer and emd. Just out of curiousity, are you both on dial up? I have that problem here at home, but not at work with the dsl
This one of my best finds yet.+++++++
I was raised southern Baptist. I was raised god fearing and subservient. I still am. Im not one of those women. One of those barefoot and pregnant type girls. But when I see those uppity women on the television talking about getting to the white house or being CEOs… where’s their sense of place? Or structure. I was a happy kid. When I was in jr. high school, a boy asked me out. My father said I couldn’t date him until I had a personal relationship with Jesus. I didn’t understand. I’d gone to church all my life. I prayed before eating my bag lunch at school. Everynight I thanked Jesus for the good and apologized for my sins. I was a model Christian. I even had an oil painting of Jesus over my bed. What was I doing wrong? So it was one night, looking up into his milky white skin, flowing brown looks, big blue eyes, and muscular upper body that I got this idea. I was taught in that sex ed class they made us take in 6th grade that my body is my temple. And I was taught in Sunday school that you worship in your temple. So I let Jesus in. Everynight, before going to sleep, I would pray and then proceed to masturbate like a wild animal to thoughts of the risen Christ. I would let Jesus fill me over and over. And this went on for a few years. Until my father caught me. He pulled me off the bed by my hair and screamed ‘For God’s sake, Mary, what are you doing?’ I tried to explain, but he wouldn’t listen. In the end, it wasn’t that he yelled at me, it was the fact that he had used my god’s name in vain that hurt. Well, that stopped my Jesus masturbation. And slowly, I began to feel farther and farther away from God. And then I went to college to find myself a husband. I went to the Christian prayer circle my first week there to meet good moral people like me. I met J there. He was tall. And I swear upon a stack of bibles that he looked exactly like Jesus. So I let J touch me. And while I lay there, feeling his nakedness all over me, I yelled ‘oh jesus’… over and over and over. And my faith was restored. They say you can see a bit of God in everyone. The secret is, if you try, you don’t have to even look that hard. He is the only man whose name you can call out in bed when you are supposed to be thinking about someone else and no one notices. Now, I know its wrong. I know it’s a sin. But after they roll off of me, pull on their shorts and go home. I ask my risen lord to restore my holy virginity. Because after all, if you are giving your body over to Jesus, it doesn’t matter whose on top of you… does it? I mean, everyone finds faith in their own ways. I mean, how could any good Christian resist- in a religion where the iconography itself sets up my saviour as a sex symbol slash superhero- what’s wrong with a little reverence.
So I ask you again, my brothers and sisters-
Have you been saved?
I have a most unique cat. She doesn't wake me up in the morning - in fact, she often stays in bed for an hour or more after I get up.
Never seen a cat like this before.
QL
I only wish I would write that well.
Dialup here, but yesterday at work with DSL the haloscan window started reproducing like rabbits when I refreshed and I could only stop it by rebooting.
megisi,
That link was hilarious!
any of you listen to WNYC? Is it me or didn't they just fucking HAVE a pledge drive?
I don't remember, but they do seem to have a lot of them. I just turn them off for a week. There are better places for my donations, such as John Aravosis.
What do you guys think of WBAI? I keep hoping they will bring Robert Knight back to Wakeup Call, he saved my sanity back in the early days of the war.
"any of you listen to WNYC? Is it me or didn't they just fucking HAVE a pledge drive?"
watertiger 05.07.05 - 10:34 am
Now that they're under conservative Republican control they need much more cash to plunder.
I have that problem here at home, but not at work with the dsl
I have it more often on dialup at home, particularly on long threads, but still get it occasionally with the T1 at work.
Have you been saved?
Ba'al -- 10:44 am
Couldn't one entitle this little essay
Kingdom Cum: Diddling for the Lord?
Not that I ever post at work (heh)
Hmmm....
Then Haloscan can't use the 'bandwidth' excuse. You'd think that given the traffic this site gets, it would tweak the program a bit to handle it.
I've got highspeed cable and the last few days I've also been getting truncated threads, and comments that don't post.
Haloscam has been screwing w/me for 5 days. Thought something was wrong with my system.
In case I can't get back in today, will say Bye-Bye for a while. Closing on the store Wed. & moving to the woods. Hope to have a satellite & new computer in a few weeks. Keep up the good fight.
Methinks this poor thing could use help from a higher order.
http://tinyurl.com/537k2
Vic, I think Landover (with apologies to The Onion) is the best parody site on the Web ... so far. I've never laughed so long.
On the subject of finding hope in the littlest things.
There's a house along my route to the grocery store that maintained a a John Kerry for the longest time. For the longest time there was a house a few doors down that had a Bush/Cheney sign up. It was like a contest of wills. The Bush/Cheney sign is now down and the Kerry sign is still going strong.
I am thinking of leaving a small tribute this weekend.
I blame the fact that Atrios is in Spain, so he hasn't been giving Haloscan its daily beating.
Holy Rollers at it again:
Editor of Jesuit weekly is ousted
Vatican reportedly vowed to set oversight
By Mary Voboril, Newsday
May 7, 2005
The editor of America, an influential Jesuit weekly magazine, has resigned under orders from the Vatican, which threatened to impose a ''board of censors" to oversee the magazine if he stayed, according to the National Catholic Reporter.
(posted at Boston.com)
Them damn Jesuits, always thinking. Serves 'em right.
Ba'al I don't know if you saw this but The Rude Pundit gave you a shout out yesterday.
"Intelligent design" is such a cutely ironic name, in the "Clear Skies Initiative" school of obfuscative rhetoric, because you have to be a complete fucking moron to believe in it. It's Christianity without mentioning Christ, because, if, say, the universe was really just shat out of the anus of a dark Baal-like deity, it'd totally fuck-up the whole "intelligent design" thing (but, goddamn, what a laugh we could all have, no?).
Re: HAL-O-Scan
is getting more and more dictatorial...
the notice that HAL thinks your post is spam gets my fucking teeth grinding...
however, if you right-click and 'back' out of the dead screen, you can recapture what you wrote... that notwithstanding, HAL seems to recognize certain stgructures and may continue to refuse to post...
I wanna hit HAL with a fucking chair sometimes...
the message that you've duped can be circumvented by changing a few characters and re-posting...
Morning everybody. Fresh coffee! Hooray!
If I may chime in on Reid, IMHO what he said outweighs his apology. You can't unring a bell, as it were... and a mighty fine bell it was.
Wolcott was supremely right-on yet again. As TBogg said, count the lines you wish you'd written!
I need more yogourt...
Ba'al @ 10:44 a.m. 
Did ja see Countdown with Keith Olbermann last night? During the story about The Runaway Bride, KO mentioned that the groom was "a born again virgin." All thru the remaining broadcast KO kept asking, "When did they change the rules on that?" Monday, KO is going to do an entire segment on "born again virginity." It looks like it's gonna be a goddamn hoot. Also, MSGOP Question of the day is "did the fiance's abstinence cause the bride to runaway?"
Excerpt from Jerry Falwell's 1987 autobiography "Strength for the Journey". A passage about his father. About dear old Dad:
There were times that Dad’s pranks bordered on cruelty. One of his oil-company workers, a one-legged man he nicknamed “Crip” Smith, complained about everything. Dad and Crip’s co-workers got tired of the old man’s bellyaching and decided to take revenge. One morning Crip called in sick and Dad volunteered to send by lunch to his grateful but suspicious employee. Dad and his chums caught Crip’s old black tomcat, killed it, skinned it, and cooked it in the kitchen of one of Dad’s little restaurants. They called it squirrel meat and delivered it to Crip on a linen-covered tray. When Crip returned to work the next morning, Dad and his co-conspirators asked him how he liked his meal. They knew he would complain even about a free home-cooked lunch, and when Crip called it “the toughest squirrel meat” he had ever eaten, they were glad to tell him why.
About the forced resignation of the editor of America.
How long are people going to ignore the fact that The Rat was an active fascist during the entire rule of JPII? In the end it is going to be undeniable and the evidence has been there since the mid-1980s, Ratzinger is a fascist who has a thirst for power unseen in the papacy since the death of the deeply mentally ill Pius XII. Perhaps you have to go back to Pius X to find someone as power thirsty.
Catholics who give financial support to The Rat and his hacks in the palaces of the princes of the church are only hastening the end of the whole thing. I predict that these sleazy cowards will loot every group doing worthwhile charity work to keep themselves. They will hollow out the church. Only give money to groups within the church who they can't rob.
megisi,
Don't forget Jesus' General. OMG that site is a riot.
Ba'al - that snip from Falwell's book is probably one of the most disturbing things I've ever read by a religious wacko.
One last comment before I head out. I love the Guardian's letters to the editor, because the Brits seem to have a knack for getting the message across in one sentence. Here's an example today:
What a campaign, all those politicians talking money! As an environmentalist, it was like watching shove-halfpenny on the Titanic.
Rev John Miller
Reading
They will hollow out the church. Only give money to groups within the church who they can't rob.
EPT | Email
Dead on, EPT. That's why I say:
"Hail the popenfuhrer! He sacrifices himself to kill the church!"
File this in the Hypocrisy of the Year Nominations file (which fills its own cabinet)
Bush said the agreement in 1945 at Yalta among President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Soviet leader Josef Stalin and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill "followed in the unjust tradition of Munich and the Molotov-Ribbontrop pact." The decisions at Yalta led to the Soviet annexation and occupation of the Baltic countries for nearly half a century.
"Once again, when powerful governments negotiated, the freedom of small nations was somehow expendable," the president said, opening a four-nation trip to mark the 60th anniversary of Nazi Germany's defeat. "Yet this attempt to sacrifice freedom for the sake of stability left a continent divided and unstable."
"We will not repeat the mistakes of other generations — appeasing or excusing tyranny, and sacrificing freedom in the vain pursuit of stability."
NTodd,
My thoughts exactly, if he thinks that little "prank" of "Dad's" "bordered" on cruelty, one wonders what he thinks would have actually crossed the line.
How long are people going to ignore the fact that The Rat was an active fascist during the entire rule of JPII? In the end it is going to be undeniable and the evidence has been there since the mid-1980s, Ratzinger is a fascist
We were breaking bad on Ratzi the Natzi earlier. Don't even get Elaine going on him. It appears that Cardinal Ratzi had been hating on the "America" magazine for the simple fact that they published both sides of an issue and that was unacceptable to Rat bastard.
bordered on cruelty?
I imagine Falwell and Frist get along famously.
Haloscan has been eating my comments and then when I post a similar comment to make up for the one that disappeared, they both post. Tricksy.
Morning, moonbats.
No wonder Falwell has no problems with Frist. From his childhood experience, he knows that slaughtering someone's pet is all just good fun.
Dad's pranks...
Ba'al , if you can contact Bast, there's a bit of karma that needs rectifying...
I got only one thing to say about Jerry Falwell: PTMDAS©*
*
Push The Mutherfocker Down A Stairwell©
OK, Dianne,
I'm gonna throw up now. Does Bu$h even begin to comprehend what he's reading? I think not.
Question, since I never read anything Falwell put out, how did he feel about this behavior in context in the long term. Did he have a 'god' relationship with his dad or was it an issue of an abusive parent etc?
And now I feel bad finding that link I posted above funny.
correction
"Did he have a 'good' relationship "
NTodd - Thanks for swapping out my photo, I'm still looking for a decent pic where I'm Not wearing a work shirt. Don't want to be pemanently tagged by my corporate identity (gaaahhh).
I salute the General ... I also have to bolt.
Remember: Be a patriot ... don't kill their cats!
"born again virginity." It looks like it's gonna be a goddamn hoot.
Yep. I think we know why the bride ran. The fundie thing scared the shit out of her.
Bush and the rest have a big problem with the way WW II turned out: that is, the fact that without Stalin and the 20-30 MILLION Soviet casualties, Hitler would have won the fucking war...
Bush doesn't see the irony in essentially condemning the Allies for their exploitation of the Eastern Front, of course...
but he's just dumber than dogshit...
Fux News: "Republican woman changes political affiliation after sexual encounter with Democratic male. 'My party lied to me,' said Holly Hotspur, of Macon, Ga. "They told me there were only two types of male members: limp and inert. Now I see where Monica was coming from.'"
Let her message be clearly stated:
Repuke women can be converted.
They needn't be birdbrains.
They can throw off their chains,
If the proper tool is inserted.
Ba'al - that story was just astonishing. Really funny to feed someone their own cat because he complains. And of course, he's one legged, so Falwell senior called him "Crip" -
"bordered on cruelty"? Jayzuz.
Back in the glory days of Queer Nation, a poster went up all over New York delcaring "I Hate Straights" -- going into considerable detail as to why.
In his film The Making of Monsters John Greyson made a song of it, using the melody of "Mack the Knife."
Those in power not only do not understand those that aren't -- they can't even see the nature of their own power!
Christopher Isherwood called in "The Heterosexual Dictatorship." As usual he was right on the money.
Straights don't have to think about their lives at all. Their existence is a "given." Gays and lesbians have to justify themselves every damned minute of day.
And for many of us it's just fucking exhausting.
I can't wait for Bush to head for Moscow after this speech in Latvia. I'm sure Mr. Putin will be even more 'annoyed' with the preznit than he was before the speech.
Bush says elections don't guarantee democracy.
Now he tells us.
Awwwww, hell. Just saw Shrub on TV shaming America before the entire world. He was verbally staggering all over the place yammering about freedom being etched in everyone's souls. Next clip was of Putin slamming Shrub for the notion of exporting *freedom* from the end of a gun. Hahahahahaha. Another 1 fingered salute to the Chimp.
Straights don't have to think about their lives at all. Their existence is a "given."
Oh?
bigvic,
But...but...I thought George and Pooty-Poot were soul brothers.
Morning Everybody--
My best results with Haloscan on my eMac are by going to Internet Explorer 5 on "classic OS 9" -- the threads open to the end almost every time (& a second try has always made it so far) -- Safari (usually great) is hopeless on long threads but so is the newest version of I.E. -- as Jesus said, "The old is better, they say!"
"Oh?
GWPDA, Irate Scholar "
Yeah , "oh."
I'm 58 years old. I can recall a time when standing too close to another man in a bar was grounds for arrest.
I just finished reading about Bush's stopover in the the Baltics (which I only half understood) in the Nation.
Serves to re-enforce the idea that we are medlling into areas of which we have absolutely no understanding, or we are deliberately trying to start WWIII.
GWPDA - Thanks, you beat me to it.
Excuse me, David, but that's a bit much. I find public discussions of my sexuality to be about as common as discussions of yours. If not more so.
In fact, women are getting hit from all sides. We have to justify every single decision we make - whether to marry, have a career or have children. Then we have to explain why we didn't do those things if we decide not to. We have to worry about not being seen publicly doing something people disapprove of when we're pregnant now, or risk going to jail for it.
And furthermore, all things else being equal, you still make more money than a straight woman can make. And when I was interviewing with law firms back when I was a 2d year student, every single interviewer asked me if I wanted children. I doubt you've been asked that or have had to explain why or why not and how that would effect your career.
So any of the ease with which you believe straight people move through society is really not necessarily there for straight women.
I thought we were all in this together. That's the way I felt about it. I'd be damned sorry to find out that isn't the case.
I know this is of ZERO interest to anyone but me (and possibly my bosses at the school district) but my kids - in my area of responsibility - increased their state test scores by 33.7% (Yep, I am kind of chuffed!)
Straights don't have to think about their lives at all. Their existence is a "given." Gays and lesbians have to justify themselves every damned minute of day.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Listening to my daughter and her SO discuss tactics for taking a cross-country car trip was a real eye opener for me.
Chimpy, your Vlad-meer's out of control.
Get a fix on his slippery soul.
You saw it, we know.
Where in hell did it go?
Look again through his beady eyehole.
Diane,
We all know bu$h is a moron, but I guess Putin looked into Bu$h's soul and saw a very dark place.
ncreased their state test scores by 33.7%
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hoo boy. Sounds to me like you probably turned at least a few of those kids into life long readers.
Congratulations!
David - you might want to take a look at this to provide some perspective. It isn't of course that gay folks don't have constant harassment of one kind or another - but rather that non-conforming straight folks* may well have as well.
-----------
*Non-conforming: eg non-white, male, educated, adequately compensated etc....
Bush should just STFU.
Baltics 'should move on from war'
President Bush and Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga
Bush is to focus on the theme of freedom during his trip
US President George W Bush has told the leaders of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia that he understands their history, but it is time to move on.
Just move on?
Did this idiot even bother to find out what happened to these people during and after WW 2?
Gonzales: Prisoner abuse doesn't qualify as torture
U.S. attorney general says legal definition not met
By HARVEY RICE
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle
Despite reports of widespread abuse of prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on Friday said much of the abuse falls short of the legal definition of torture.
Gonzales, who grew up in Houston, said many of the widely publicized incidents of abuse by the military and civilian contractors cannot be prosecuted as torture.
"Torture, as a matter of prosecution, is defined by Congress as the intentional infliction of severe physical and mental pain or suffering," Gonzales said in an interview at the offices of Houston U.S. Attorney Michael Shelby.
"Congress intended a very high bar here in order to be prosecuted for engaging in torture," he said. "There may be conduct that you may find offensive that falls far short of torture."
Nevertheless, he said his office would prosecute anyone who has engaged in torture.
"This president has said consistently that the United States does not condone torture and does not as a matter of policy engage in torture, and if anyone is in violation of the president's directive or the law, they will be held accountable," he said.
Gonzales, who took office Feb. 3, was criticized by Democrats during his confirmation hearing for approving a memo in August 2002 while he was White House counsel saying that laws prohibiting torture do "not apply to the president's detention and interrogation of enemy combatants."
The memo also said that to qualify as torture, the pain must include "injury such as death, organ failure, or serious impairment of body functions."
A January 2002 memo by Gonzales said the war against terrorism "renders obsolete" the Geneva Convention treatment of prisoners of war.
He said thwarting domestic terrorism remains the top priority of the U.S. Justice Department and that its policies struck the right balance between protecting the country from threats and protecting civil liberties.
"We live in a new world now, post 9/11, where in order to successfully deal with the war on terror we have to win the war of information and get as much information as we can and do it in a way that is consistent with our values and consistent with our obligations under the law," Gonzales said.
DWD--quite honestly, I think that's a powerful statement. I think that can only be attributed to excellent teaching and not to regulations.
I have very serious misgivings about No Child Left Alive, as does every teacher I've had the chance to speak with.
Ba'al--yep. he's even worse than Asscrap. I hate what's become of my nation--I barely recognize it anymore.
BTW, how's the R01 coming along?
Reid Calls Bush 'A Loser, ' Then Apologizes
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 7, 2005
Filed at 9:23 a.m. ET
LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid called President Bush ''a loser'' during a civics discussion with a group of teenagers at a high school on Friday.
''The man's father is a wonderful human being,'' Reid, D-Nev., told students at Del Sol High School when asked about the president's policies. ''I think this guy is a loser.''
Shortly after the event Reid called the White House to apologize, his spokeswoman Tessa Hafen said. Reid spoke with Bush adviser Karl Rove, asking him to convey the apology to Bush, who was traveling in Europe.
The Nevada Democrat expressed ''regret for the comments, that it was inappropriate,'' Hafen said. Reid was giving a late speech in Salt Lake City and was unavailable for comment, she said.
Asked for comment, a White House spokeswoman referred to a statement issued by the Republican National Committee. RNC spokesman Brian Jones called Reid's statement ''a sad development but not surprising from the leader of a party devoid of optimism, ideas or solutions to the issues people care about most.''
Reid visited the school to discuss Congress and the debate over judicial filibusters. He repeated that the Senate will be brought to a standstill if Republicans change the rules regarding filibusters to hasten the approval of Bush's judicial nominees.
Hafen said Reid told the teenagers that if Republicans change the filibuster rules, then they can ''no longer count on Senator Reid working with them on the president's agenda.''
Reid's comments were first reported by the Las Vegas Review-Journal on its Web site.
Serves to re-enforce the idea that we are medlling into areas of which we have absolutely no understanding, or we are deliberately trying to start WWIII.
The standard Bush foreign policy, IOW.
DWD,
That is actually the best news I have heard today. Way to go, sport!
(and what Sallyh said)
Don't get me wrong, I think Putin is an evil creature heading in the opposite direction of demomcracy, but it cracks me up seeing him slam Bu$h for having the nerve to lecture him on freedom.
I'm really starting to appreciate Harry Reid. I'm not about to hold his apology against him--I suspect he'd prefer not to find a severed horse head in his bed.Especially this being Derby Day.
Every teacher is both damned and helped by the students they are given. I have gone from being a genius to being an idiot in one year.
But thanks for the compliments. (Maybe I will get a big bonus this year? Nope. Never happen because we have no money, we spent it all killing people in Iraq)
Sallh
RO1 is slowly becoming a thing of beauty.
Background + Significance done
Progress report done,
About half way through Experimental designs.
Folks in my lab need to crank out a few more bits of preliminary data to finish the rest, and then I have to cut back my prose a bit to meet the 25 page limit.
I feel pretty good about it, over the years I have learned how to write effective applications that ususally get funded.
But of course, the pay line is shit these days. I will get the money sooner or later.
Argh. I get so tired of this "who is more put upon by society" crap. While acknowledging that never married, childless adult females above a certain age probably do not get beaten up because we've not fulfilled the Prime Directive of Woman, we also get crap as well.
Remember all that nonsense back in the 80s about how it was much more likely for a single adult female older than her mid-30s to be killed by a terrorist than to find a man? Or the regular crap that gets dished out from various and sundry about how women who never get married and have children are not fulfilled in some way?
I'm for GLBT rights for two reasons: first of all, it's RIGHT for all people to have the same protections under law and second, it's purely selfish. Because I know that if GLBT persons are shoved back into the closet (or worse), then the christofascist zombie brigade is going to look for someone else as their scapegoat, and that will be us independent wimmen, unnatural folks that we are.
We have more in common than you'd think.
DWD - the kids you teach increased their test scores by 37% - that's fantastic. Congratulations.
DWD--bonuses? In this regime? Hell, we're supposed to be grateful to be able to hold on to any sort of job.
I'm really tired of being told I need to be happy with crumbs from the table. Apparently, this is where Bush et al would like us to be.
Sallyh,
I use to wonder why Reid did not want Dean to trash Bush. Now I realize it is so Reid personally can do the job.
Serves to re-enforce the idea that we are medlling into areas of which we have absolutely no understanding, or we are deliberately trying to start WWIII.
The standard Bush foreign policy, IOW.
Domestic policy, too.
I support GLBT for the simple reason that it makes no sense not to do otherwise. Humans are indeed endowed with certain inalienable rights. I noticed that in the Preamble, no one said anything about excluding gays, other racial-ethnic groups, women, etc.
Hey, Thersistes!
I love you, man!
"I come to you as the son of a pig-headed father.
Let there be a commerce between us."
[just wanted everybody else to know you don't really piss me off. 
]
Live Free or Die--that may be part of it. Senator Reid needs an outlet for all that anger, no doubt.
I support GLBT for the simple reason that it makes no sense not to do otherwise. Humans are indeed endowed with certain inalienable rights. I noticed that in the Preamble, no one said anything about excluding gays, other racial-ethnic groups, women, etc.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
That is because you are unaware of the original intent.
It says "all men." Hem hem.
The rest of you just got stuck behind the door when the inalienable rights were being handed out.
Robert Bork told me so.
RMJ--riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
The rest of you just got stuck behind the door when the inalienable rights were being handed out.
I was washing the damned floor and couldn't get up fast enough. Sorry!
A reminder, people:
This bill comes up before the Washington State Legislature EVERY FREAKING YEAR. And is killed EVERY FREAKING YEAR.
But wait! There's more!
This year, it came within a vote of passing -- the best the bill has ever done. And that was without Gates backing it.
Next year, with Gates backing it again, it WILL pass.
And you know why?
Because John Aravosis, instead of just sitting around and getting drunk and moaning theatrically about how we are all DOOOOOOMED, actually put his histrionics to good use.
Because of John Aravosis, a bill that was a perennial loser is now assured of passage next year.
Perhaps this is because Aravosis, as a former Republican, doesn't seem to have the innate distrust of the democratic process that lots of lefties have. When things don't break a Republican's way, does he/she sit around whining about it? No. He/she tries to do something about it.
Look at 1964. The Republicans and Goldwater went down in flames in an asskicking exceeded only by that administered by FDR and the Democrats in the 1936 elections.
Did they sit around and piss and moan? Did a third of them say "fuck this, I'm forming a third party"? Did a third of them decide to quit activism altogether and just moan from the sidelines?
No.
Instead, they committed themselves to stay together and work to change the situation, knowing that it was going to take a long time.
By their own diseased lights, they were given a boon in the form of LBJ's pushing for both civil rights and the Vietnam War. But they still had to work to take over the media; that was accomplished in the late 1970s. With the media in hand, things went more smoothly for them.
Now, we can reverse this, but only if we commit ourselves to our good goals the same way that they did to their evil ones. DFA and the Meetups are a good start. So is getting AirAmerica and Democracy Radio off the ground, which are grabbing a segment of the radio audience that Pacifica can't reach. We haven't been fighting back effectively for very long, and we're already doing better than I thought we would.
Don't get me wrong, I think Putin is an evil creature heading in the opposite direction of demomcracy, but it cracks me up seeing him slam Bu$h for having the nerve to lecture him on freedom.
bigvic
Sadly, the irony is lost on Bush.
Now I have take my daughter to the mall.
Pray for me. Or burn an offering for Ba'al, or something. Send up smoke signals, for all I care.
A teenager at the mall. I may not come back alive....
Phoenix Woman speaks, and we listen.
RMJ--you may come back, but your wallet will not.
A teenager at the mall. I may not come back alive....
I take it you haven't reached the detente stage yet.
Y'know, recognizing each other's right to exist and all.
We haven't been fighting back effectively for very long, and we're already doing better than I thought we would.
Phoenix Woman
Hear hear!
Phoenix Woman
amen!
some marching in the streets might even help, although my sense of the undergraduate species these days is that they are not prone to deep thoughts about justice.
I have no faith in a generation that cannot say anything without using the the word "like" -- many times.
Ok, Atrios. Too much tapas not enough typing.
Jay Carolina--when it comes to teenaged girls and the mall, there is no detente.
RMJ--you may come back, but your wallet will not.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
Well, we are very close to one another.
A teenager at the mall. I may not come back alive....
I take it you haven't reached the detente stage yet.
Y'know, recognizing each other's right to exist and all.
Oh, I have a right to exist. Just in another building, on another planet.
So long as I drive her to the mall first.
rmj
have fun at the mall. Galleria?
EPTX--no such thing as too much tapas. Tapas muy bueno.
I have no faith in a generation that cannot say anything without using the the word "like" -- many times.
Ba'al
Like, dude! Like, you're all up in my grill and, like, dissin' me! Like, back off!
Dude.
[boy. Glad I was never like that! Like, bummer!]
Straights don't have to think about their lives at all. Their existence is a "given." Gays and lesbians have to justify themselves every damned minute of day.
And for many of us it's just fucking exhausting.
David Ehrenstein --11:20 am
Peggy McIntosh's "Knapsack" of White/Male privilege descries the whole portmanteau of hetero privilege as well:
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
Phoenix Woman - That comment rocked.
Just rocked. Thank you very much - I agree completely.
have fun at the mall. Galleria?
Ba'al
I don't go down there at 3 a.m. on a Wednesday night.
Fortunately, we live just across the freeway (well not so fortunately, as they are turning that free way into 22 lanes) from Memorial City.
So it's a short drive.
I wouldn't go to the Galleria if I had my own helicopter.
They have inventeed a new grammatical construct -- the "quotative", a word (like) that indicates they are quoting another.
"And he was, like, no way, and I was, lik,e for sure man,......"
My last cat blogging before my wedding! And we have a misbehaving cat!
http://stickandballguy.blogspot....is-bad-
cat.html
rmj
Memorial City will not be quite as punishing, I am of like mind and have no helicopter. Sory to hear you live so close to the Katy monstrosity.
I am a confirmed Innerloopster myself, fortunately bought there back when it was still feasible.
I'll repeat. On my own dime, I bought an extra copy of the May Harper's issue, photocopied the articles having to do with the theocons and passed them on to good liberals who are too tired from raising kids, holding down a job, and just generally trying to survive to spend hours on the internet trying to get information. The expression of one of my friends was of weary resignation. She knew now she was going to have to read about it.
I'm for GLBT rights for two reasons: first of all, it's RIGHT for all people to have the same protections under law and second, it's purely selfish. Because I know that if GLBT persons are shoved back into the closet (or worse), then the christofascist zombie brigade is going to look for someone else as their scapegoat, and that will be us independent wimmen, unnatural folks that we are.
Exactly.
In fact, it's no accident that homophobia and gynophobia are linked.
Going back to ancient Greece, where Western Civ got much if not most of its ideas on gender, we run across the concept that translates into modern American vernacular as "Fuckers good, fuckees bad" or "It's not 'gay' if you're the guy."
In Greece, anyone who was known to have been penetrated by a man at least once in his/her life -- whether male, female, girl, boy, or goat -- was not allowed anything resembling civic rights. Didn't matter if the penetrating wasn't consensual: You simply weren't a citizen. And since women were viewed only as things to be penetrated, and not possible penetrators (guess the concept of strap-ons didn't count), they were reviled -- as was any male Greek who took on "the woman's role", whether by choice or compulsion.
Ba'al loves long lists. Here is a good one.
The anti-Christian bias in our society has reached absurd proportions. Consider:
1. During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that Christians should not be considered patriots or real American citizens.
2. Bill Clinton steadfastly refused to give any speeches at local churches.
3. Both major political parties are dominated by anti-Christians. The Republican party, for example, gave us such hard-core atheists as Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Phyllis Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. And the Democrats have given us such personalities as the Rev. Martin Luther King and the Rev. Jesse Jackson-- both noted for their vicious attacks on all forms of Christianity.
4. Let's talk about the media. On Sunday mornings, nearly all major television channels broadcast pro-atheist shows; it is nearly impossible to find religious programming during that time period. Further, Madalyn Murray O'Hair has her own cable TV channel, while Pat Robertson has been unable to obtain one for himself.
5. Most major newspapers run a special weekly section devoted to atheism. There are no equivalent sections for religious news.
6. Anti-Christian shows such as the American Atheist Forum are broadcast by major national networks. Meanwhile, Billy Graham is only able to get on the air through public access TV, which is watched by few people.
7. On news programs and "reality" TV shows such as Rescue 911, nobody is ever shown giving thanks to God after surviving a disaster.
8. It is almost impossible to find a shopping mall with a Christian Armory book store, while Atheist Book Centers are featured prominently on every corner.
9. While atheists couples who marry rarely have any difficulty finding a place to do so, it is nearly impossible for Christian couples to find a church where they can marry.
10. For that matter, churches themselves are extremely rare, while atheist meeting centers can be found every few blocks.
11. Jurors must take an oath upon a copy of the Skeptical Inquirer before they can serve. There have even been court cases thrown out because one of the jury members was a Christian who insisted on swearing on a Bible.
12. Christians often find it nearly impossible to get time off work for religious holidays such as Christmas.
13. Even our language reflects the radical anti-Christian bias that pervades our society. For example, when somebody sneezes, most people say "Darwin bless you". Similarly, "Voltaire dammit!" is a common cussword.
14. All of our money has the atheistic slogan "We do not trust in God" printed on it.
15. In school, our children are made to recite the pledge, "One nation, anti-God, indivisible...."
16. One cannot rent a hotel room without finding a copy of Nietzsche's The Anti-Christ in the room.
17. Organizations such as the Boy Scouts deny membership to Christians.
18. In the military, it is nearly impossible to obtain Conscientious Objector status for religious reasons, even though those with philosophical reasons can obtain C.O. status relatively easily.
19. Christian churches are forced to pay exorbitant taxes.
20. You can't drive anywhere without seeing a Darwin fish or a "Jesus Was A Fraud" bumper sticker stuck to a car.
21. Georgia recently passed a new law requiring schools to have a "moment of noise" during which children are encouraged to degrade Christianity.
22. College campuses usually have dozens of atheist organizations, but few if any for Christians.
23. Many Christians are afraid to admit their Christianity to their parents and friends, for fear their kin will consider them immoral Christian scum and want nothing to do with them.
24. At presidential inauguration ceremonies, Madalyn Murray-O'Hair (that well-known friend of several presidents) gives a short pro-atheism speech.
25. For decades, high school and college commencement ceremonies have included brief speeches at the beginning and end of the ceremony in which atheism is praised and Christians deemed irrational. Christians who object to the practice, or who ask for an opening prayer instead, are regarded as cranks at best and subversives at worst.
26. "There are no Christians in foxholes" is a popular slogan in our society.
27. Communities set up atheist brainwashing facilities, and apply social pressure to citizens to report to these facilities every Sunday morning. Furthermore, attendees are expected to contribute money to support these facilities, and to build others through "outreach" programs.
28. At baseball games, you can often spot people carrying signs that read "Origin Of Species, page 34".
29. Businesses often refuse to admit that they are Christian owned and operated, for fear of being boycotted by their atheist customers. Meanwhile, atheist-owned businesses often feature Darwin-fish logos in their ads.
30. Atheists have often invented "deathbed deconversion" stories about famous Christians, claiming they became atheists just before they died.
31. Insurance companies refer to natural disasters as "Acts of Darwin".
32. Forms for job applications, government aid and so forth often ask what type of atheist you are, with checkboxes for "atheist", "agnostic", "humanist" and so forth. If you are a Christian, the only thing you can do is check the "other" box-- if one is provided.
33. Sports teams often read from the Humanist Manifesto prior to the game, in the hopes that doing so will increase their chances of winning.
34. Atheists constantly threaten television and movies producers with boycotts whenever they portray Christianity in a positive light.
35. Well-known atheists like Michael Martin and Quentin Smith have set up ministries to witness to Christians, but it is virtually impossible to find Christians who specialize in debating atheists.
36. The word "Christian" is recognized as a term which represents the worst of human attributes: cynicism, pessimism, selfishness, and moral turpitude. The word "Atheist," on the other hand, is used to signify all that is virtuous, as in, "That's mighty Atheist of you!"
37. On sitcoms and movies of the week, the parents make references to how their lack of faith in God helps them get through life's troubles. Meanwhile, Christians are portrayed as pathetic folks who end up converting to atheism.
38. Atheists who convert to christianity are often told by their parents "It's just a rebellious phase. Once you move through this stage of life you'll realize that you never really believed in God." Similarly, people who are raised as Christians are condesended to, and told that if they would give atheism a chance, it would fill the empty hole that Chistianity must be leaving in their lives.
39. Most people assume everyone else is an Atheist and are unbelievers as they are. It makes for uncomfortable social situations for Christians and other religious types.
40. Despite the overwhelming number of Atheists in the general population and in powerful legislative positions, when they don't get their own way, Atheists whine that this is an anti-Atheistic country.
41. Atheists constantly cite, out of context, books of philosophy by noted Atheists to prove that Christians live irrational lives.
42. Atheists do everything possible to get laws passed that will prevent irrational Christians from making their own choices in matters of sex, procreation, life-styles, family units, etc.
43. In small towns and communities all over the U.S. Atheist horns awake Christians at midnight on Saturdays preventing them from getting a good night's sleep before their Sabbath. Fortunately for much of the population, few church bells wake Atheists who want to sleep in on Sundays.
44. Atheist Army (and other Freethought) soup kitchens force homeless Christians to listen to Atheist propaganda before serving them a meal.
45. Hundreds of self-help groups replace codependence with the 12 Steps of A.B.A. (Atheist Brainwashing Anonymous), convincing people they don't have the power to help themselves but must rely on the power of Darwin to overcome addiction.
46. U.S. Atheist organizations send missionaries to underdeveloped countries to convince people to renounce long-held local religious beliefs and become Atheists.
47. All prisons have a resident atheist philosopher, and inmates are encouraged to participate in weekly philophical dicussions on Bible Contradictions. This is often reported to parole board, who consider it a good indication of contritenes on the prisoner's part.
48. A political candidate who declares himself a Christian will have far less chance of winning an election than one who flaunts his atheism.
49. Whenever an atheist commits a crime, invariably people will argue that this is not a sign that teaching atheism might not guarantee a better society, because anyone who would act that way "isn't a true atheist."
50. One often sees bumper stickers like, "Thomas Paine said it, I believe it, that settles it," but seldom sees Christian bumper stickers.
WGG - I agree with most of that portmanteau, but with regard to women (and I realize it is about white male rights) this one stands out for me right now:
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
My race won't work against me, true, but my gender does. When there are hospitals that will only dispense to or even inform a rape victim about emergency contraception after it has been determined that the victim doesn't need it because she hasn't ovulated - well... And then there is the whole birth control and pharmacists' "conscience laws" situation.
Woody--that's an amazing articulation of white privilege.
Look! Over here! Jennifer Wilbanks Runaway Bride found on man's toast!
Where else but on ebay. Haw haw!
Hey, Thersistes!
I love you, man!
Excellent! For I am human and I need to be loved. Just like anybody else does.
That list seems quite comprehensive, Woody.
My argument with Incognito isn't that he doesn't have a point about our mutual oppression it's that his reaction to it isn't always productive or fair. Though living in even this, the only New England State WITHOUT secure rights for lesbians and gay men is probabaly a lot less oppressive than LA.
Before opening up a potentially divisive discussion it's always worth looking at the direction it could take and evaluating the potential for damage to more imporatant things. I don't see the "my oppression is bigger than yours" argument as being helpful to the goals of
1. Securing the protections necessary to live and live reasonably comfortably.
2. Securing equal rights in other matters.
3. Securing the security.
I agree that being gay can be extremely difficult and that being a member of a targeted minority is ALWAYS something that you have to deal with. That can seem like the weight of the world some days if now always. Bringing it up is legitimate but not necessarily the most productive use of time. Depending on how the discussion goes it could make the problems worse.
Maybe it's something better discussed internally.
From ebay comments on the Runaway Toast Bride:
"What is next for a piece of toast? Wonder who Larry King has booked for tonight? Could you imagine Larry sitting across from a piece of toast? it could happen."
"Imagine losing your job because your boss caught you bidding on a piece of toast from your desk? If this has happened to you email me."
And Ba'al--send that one off to Focus on the Family, Catholic League, etc. On second thought, forget it--irony is not their strong suit.
Thanks Woody!
Now y'all imagine just how much fun I have being both black AND gay.
Tena, with all due respect, it's not against the law for you to be a woman. Up until Lawrence vs. Texas I was against the law just by existing.
I'll see you the runaway toast and raise you Ratzinger's old Volkswagen. A heavenly ride for only $250K!
Love it when liberals fight and win. Here is somebody who got arrested for doing a Scalia to Ann Coulter during right-wing circle jerk at UT Texas:
You say that you believe in the sanctity of marriage," said Ajai Raj, an English sophomore. "How do you feel about marriages where the man does nothing but fuck his wife up the ass?"
His notes on the event and his arrest
Tena,
wingnuts are nuts who degrade everybody.
Remove the wingnut context, and I will agree with you more completely about your last post when I see a race for a cure -- for prostate cancer, which kills more people than breast cancer and ovarian cancer combined.
Not trying to be hostile, just saying that the tone of some of the thread is not entirely productive.
Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.
East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.
Also, MSGOP Question of the day is "did the fiance's abstinence cause the bride to runaway?"
Hmmm. Well, if she wasn't a virgin, then perhaps they were encouraging her to have that surgery to replace the hymen. So on the wedding night they could...pretend?
*rolling eyes*
it's not against the law for you to be a woman.
Um, David, up until the 28th of April, it was 'against the law' for me to hold a particular type of job. As a female.
I'm not trying to be snarky about this - but it is important to realise that bigotry is actually not as specific as it sometimes feels - and perhaps ought not be clutched quite so closely as the property of one ilk or another.
At least that's why I told myself up until the 28th.
I think it better to assume great commonality than to compare oppression. Let's face it, virtually none of us conform to the model of what constitutes a proper 'citizen.' I let that be my guide here.
''The man's father is a wonderful human being,'' Reid, D-Nev., told students at Del Sol High School when asked about the president's policies. ''I think this guy is a loser.''
I've got to say, this guy Reid REALLY knows how to push someone's buttons. Could he have said anything more likely to make Bush go apeshit?
He's seriously fucking with Bush's head.
"that's why I told myself"
that's what I told myself.
GWPDA nails it
Thanks, y'all.
I really do think that's what's hindering the left is that while the fringe righties have no qualms at all about staying within the democratic process whilst working to subvert it, the fringe left is still affected to one degree or another by the backwash left by neo-Communist disdain for democracy as a capitalist tool. (Which is interesting, since Marx himself thought that democracy was essential to achieving a true Communist state. He would have been horrified at the idea of Communists trying to impose it on feudalistic places like Russia or China.)
I'm on a gazillion different mailing lists, including a couple Socialist ones. You wouldn't believe the flack that somebody like David McReynolds gets for -- gasp! -- sullying himself by running for office, even as a symbolic candidate.
I think that traces of this mindset are why Nader got nearly 4% in 2000, while Pat Buchanan only got .5%. The Christian right disagrees as much if not more with the corporate right than DFA does with the DLC, yet they stick together.
Here's my take.
The first step in asserting one's humanity if part of an oppressed group is to recognize and truly face the oppression.
The second step is to get royally pissed at the oppression and to let folks know about it.
The third step is to let go of the victim stance and move into action, both by acting personally and meeting up with like-minded and sympathetic indivisuals.
Until we get out of the 'poor me' victim role, we don't do anything to change the situation.
Phoenix Lady has it right.
As far as discrimination goes: you can alter the order of operations, and different variables can be in different places, but ultimately, it's the same equation, with the same result.
DAvid - I grant you that, my dear. I never claimed to be anything other than a child of privilege - I'm white and I'm straight and I am not about to try to argue that I have it so rough.
But women do face discrimination and some of it is not so subtle.
I am not trying to get into a "who is more harmed" argument with you or anyone else. I'm simply trying to point out that the power structure is hard on women, too, and at least give us a point or two for empathy.
OK? I love you David. I have supported the rights of gay and lesbian Americans since I was a teenager. I think it is disgusting the way the culture maligns and segregates you.
But women couldn't vote, David, when men, even black men, could. We're in this together. Please don't be offended by my comment.
28. At baseball games, you can often spot people carrying signs that read "Origin Of Species, page 34".
Are people holding up signs at baseball games that reference pages of the bible dealing with "creation?" Sheesh.
GWPDA ... What happened on April 28th?
''The man's father is a wonderful human being,'' Reid, D-Nev., told students at Del Sol High School when asked about the president's policies. ''I think this guy is a loser.''
I've got to say, this guy Reid REALLY knows how to push someone's buttons. Could he have said anything more likely to make Bush go apeshit?
He's seriously fucking with Bush's head.
frankly0 | Email | Homepage | 05.07.05 - 12:18 pm | #
Reid was a boxer in his youth. He must have been a VERY good one.
I almost wonder if he's studied bujitsu. He certainly has the right mindset for it.
cure--for prostate cancer, which kills more people than breast cancer and ovarian cancer combined.
Lord B:
isn't it true that prostate cancer usually killsmuch alter in life?
i thought i read somewhere that, if you live long enough, virtually every male alive will be afflicted by prostate cancer of more or lesser malignancy?
i have recently begun to regard prostate cancer as nature's reminder to males not to get too cocky about long life...
.
A preview of Eschacon 2005!
Bring a scarf.
MSGOP's Truly Stupid Post of the Day: Does Motherhood Make You Smarter?
Can we crank up the propaganda, please?
Okay. Nancy Pelosi still has a fantastic rack!
Res - you were finishing your finals. And I was getting this after ten years.
as nature's reminder to males not to get too cocky about long life...
heh heh
San Antone Rose--drat! They found us out!
Are we all awoken and boken?
Awaken! Be baken!
David Ehrenstein, Would you agree with the argument made earlier in the morning that the expression of racism by white gay men in the late 70s onward was one of the things that hurt both groups? Especially as both communities were dealing with the early days of the AIDS crisis?
Now all groups that were targets are being targeted again we can't risk being divided in a similar way. Even white women, numerically the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action are targeted too. White women outside the circles of the ruling class are pretty close to losing control of their reproductive systems, afterall.
We should insist on all being heard within the groups that will have to unite for mutual protection and to promote our issues. All issues vital to protecting and ensuring our equal status have to be insisted on. All members of all minorities have to have a voice that is LISTENED TO. It won't always be easy and there will be lapses in fairness, just as there always are. But coming together is the only way to protect ourselves.
We lack the overall unification that the right gets from their persuit of greed. We have to work around that.
Gotta love Old Europe - people gathering in freezing weather nude for an art project.
Yeah, that would happen here. LOL!
Is this country ever going to get the chance to grow up, I wonder?
I think I'm enjoying HGTV too much lately. I always hang around for "The Reveal."
I'm not offended at all, Tena. And it's not a question of "property," GWPDA.
My experience is very different from yours in that it's ontological. Until very recently gays and lesbians were required to will themselves into being in the face of a status quo that DEMANDED we un-exist.
Do you see what I'm driving at?
Here's the danger:
Gays are oppressed, and with an hysteria that is truly horrifying. And that bigotry and oppression has to be confronted with both anger and dedicated action.
However, they're (you're) not the only ones. Try being an Arab-American right about now, fo example.
Doing a gay-versus-straight us-versus-them clean Aristotelian cut runs the risk of saying "our oppression is the only one that matters." Straights don't have to think about their lives? To return to my example, straight Arab Americans sure as shit do.
There is a 'them'--but they're anti-sex in ALL forms. Abstinence only! They're the Rich White Tribe, and they're against the poor, the non-white, the gay, the Jew, the immigrant, the Okie, the woman--anybody who's not in the Tribe. And they're in charge.
THAT's the division. It's not a clean line, which makes it complicated emotionally. Us versus Them works real well--which is why THEY use it.
Yeah, during the Sixties, trying to forge an alliance between Black Power and the anti-war movement and other groups left progressives open to the "you gonna start singing Kum-ba-ya now?" charge. And a lot of folks had that soppy-touchy-feely way about them.
But behind that is simply reality. The simple model, while powerful and attractive, just doesn't describe the situation. And intelligence is not as much fun as emotion--but it works.
So no, straights can't understand how gays feel. And whites can't understand how blacks feel. And men can't understand how women feel. And I'm not out to build any campfires and link any hands around them.
But I am saying build alliances against the common enemy. Organize. Strategize. and Fight . Together.
Company dismissed.
Hey, aguatigre! Today is Fiesta Del Agua in Phoenix! Food, water sports, and the pools are open! Come on out!
''The man's father is a wonderful human being,'' Reid, D-Nev., told students at Del Sol High School when asked about the president's policies. ''I think this guy is a loser.''
Yea Reid is on fire. I had my doubts about him, but not anymore.
"David Ehrenstein, Would you agree with the argument made earlier in the morning that the expression of racism by white gay men in the late 70s onward was one of the things that hurt both groups? Especially as both communities were dealing with the early days of the AIDS crisis?"
And straight black homphobia didn't exactly help either, now did it?
I have been despised by FAR more black straight men than I ever have by white gay ones.
Prostate cancer, is the research that tomatoes fight prostate cancer still true? I hope so because I've got about a hundred to plant the end of the month.
I think gay rights groups should get together and fund a big TV/print ad campaign featuring Great Gays through History. Maybe not that ham-handedly, but they have to turn Mr. and Mrs. America if they want to make inroads. Which they will, anyway, but it's all in the way of salesmanship.
actually wgg you are correct about that, it does usually kill later in late, and if you live long enough, you will have it.
There are really fulminating forms that kill much earlier.
Anyway, my main point was that most of uson this page are on the same side and that comparing our degrees of opression is not entirely useful, but being a member of the least opressed group, I am probably not the right person to say it, but say it anyway.
Frankly, if I was told I could only work for one rights issue, I would choose GLT rights over women's.
They are closely aligned in the first place, and in the second place, I do think that gays and lesbians and transgendered people are fighting a tougher battle and it's past time for changes.
I don't expect awards for my attitude, but I also don't expect to be lumped in with bigoted straights. I'm not. Don't give any pats on the back - just don't kick me.
For me, the naked and the nude
(By lexicographers construed
As synonyms that should express
The same deficiency of dress
Or shelter) stand as wide apart
As love from lies, or truth from art.
Lovers without reproach will gaze
On bodies naked and ablaze;
The Hippocratic eye will see
In nakedness, anatomy;
And naked shines the Goddess when
She mounts her lion among men.
The nude are bold, the nude are sly
To hold each treasonable eye.
While draping by a showman's trick
Their dishabille in rhetoric,
They grin a mock-religious grin
Of scorn at those of naked skin.
The naked, therefore, who compete
Against the nude may know defeat;
Yet when they both together tread
The briary pastures of the dead,
By Gorgons with long whips pursued,
How naked go the sometime nude!
by Robert Graves...
Good afternoon Atriot.
Isn't it amazing, how accurate exit polls are, everywhere but here.
Excellent! For I am human and I need to be loved. Just like anybody else does.
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 05.07.05 - 12:12 pm | #
Gah! Now I have Morrisey going through my mind. And I'm going to have go listen to Horse With No Name or Wildfire to get it out. Damn you, Thers!
Whoops, Atriot = Atriots
No, straight black homophobia doesn't help. We won't be able to work with people who hate us. But we've got to work with straight people who will work with us. Who WANT to work with us.
I've got a lesson. Mikrokosmos vol. 5. Someday I'll get to teach the whole thing. From The Diary of a Fly. Major Sevenths Minor Seconds.
Gays are oppressed, and with an hysteria that is truly horrifying.
Question re this FDA thing about not accepting sperm donations from gay men.
It's obvious that this rule was not crafted to combat disease, otherwise it would have been equally applied. Therefore, the implication here is that "gayness" is "catching," i.e., there's a gay gene.
Doesn't this go against everything anti-gay bigots have been saying for years, i.e., that being gay is "conduct" and not a biologically determined orientation?
Why do these fuckers think they can have it both ways?
Gah! Now I have Morrisey going through my mind.
I've been locked in Morrissey-mode since the UK elections- that clickable BBC map brings it all to life.
Panic on the streets of Carlisle...
.
PBG is correct. The model would be very complex for examining bias.
The idea is to change from a Brownian motion equation to a linear one with more variables, which is what equal rights are about.
I'm hashing out an equation now...sorry, this is not only my line of work, it's my nature.
Ba'al - Well, women started the whole race to the cure for breast cancer, so if you're concerned, perhaps men need to get active about pushing for a cure for prostate cancer.
Seriously - the Susan Komen Foundation is largely responsible for the whole public awareness of breast cancer. Start a foundation - make it a big deal. Raise money - that's how Susan Komen's sister did it.
Tena
you don't have to make the choice, it is formally all ONE issue.
Equal rights and justice for ALL.
Regardless of ________________________.
In case I forget anyone.
Why do these fuckers think they can have it both ways?
Res Ipsa Loquitor --12:34 pm
ummmmm, isn't that what being 'bi' means?
(/smartass)
real answer: because of the privileges to which i alluded (and Lord B, tambien) earlier...
it is privilege, unearned and undeserved, top to bottom...
.
Until very recently gays and lesbians were required to will themselves into being in the face of a status quo that DEMANDED we un-exist.
And yes, David, I see what you're driving at - as I have also been in the position of having it made clear that if I only were not what I am, then I would be permitted to exist. It's a distinction that is unwanted by any of us. You cannot become unblack or ungay in order to suit - nor I unfemale. It's a variant, not unique. The bigotry is always forced into being something that the recipient is responsible for - if only -you- weren't something that -I- find improper/distasteful/wrong/offensive. It's not good. Neither is it all that singular I'm afraid.
Sallyh-go from Brownian motion to 1/f noise.
This just in...well, as of yesterday:
GREENBELT, Maryland (AP) -- A federal judge on Thursday blocked a county school system from instituting a health curriculum that includes discussions of homosexuality.
U.S. District Judge Alexander Williams agreed with two groups that sued contending such discussions gave preference of religions that are tolerant of homosexuality over those that reject it.
Williams issued a temporary restraining order that prevents the Montgomery County school system in suburban Washington, D.C., from using the pilot health program in six schools. The program was set to begin Monday.
During the 10-day restraining order, another hearing will be held on whether to extend it, according to the judge's decision.
Williams said the curriculum juxtaposes faiths such as Quakers that support full rights for gays and lesbians with groups such as Baptists, who are painted as "intolerant and Biblically misguided."
A hell of a lot of Baptists are intolerant. This is in dispute? I had no idea Quakers support full rights for homosexuals. Is this true?
I think gay rights groups and everyone else with a brain should tell people that when they vote for bigots with a radical agenda they are abetting radical bigotry, even if they pretend otherwise because they enjoy wars predicated on bigoted justifications.
So Toby is a bigot, and also stupid and ugly and held in universl contempt.
P = place of birth
F = familial beliefs
E = education (early)
G = education (post high school)
R = religious beliefs
T = ethnicity
W = work environment
I need to know what variables I'm missing.
Spinoza--that might work.
Separating signal to noise, that's the difficult part in these times.
Also, I would have to come up with a weighting system, and my social science research skills are nonexistent.
Gah! Now I have Morrisey going through my mind. And I'm going to have go listen to Horse With No Name or Wildfire to get it out. Damn you, Thers!
Well, don't do anything crazy. Don't hang the DJ!
Why do these fuckers think they can have it both ways?
Res Ipsa Loquitor --12:34 pm
ummmmm, isn't that what being 'bi' means?
(/smartass)
real answer: probably because of the privileges to which i alluded (and Lord B, tambien) earlier...
it is privilege, unearned and undeserved, top to bottom...
.
Why do these fuckers think they can have it both ways?
Res Ipsa Loquitor
==
Because they can.
Morning you guys.
Hey GWPDA. (again congratulations) Let's do a book this summer - might be fun.
Separating signal to noise...
Sallyh-
Conceptually, I can imagine using Signal Detection to see how much people respond to various prejudices under different situations. That ratio of hits to false alarms should vary, possibly producing different d primes for different prejudices.
Therefore, the implication here is that "gayness" is "catching," i.e., there's a gay gene.
Doesn't this go against everything anti-gay bigots have been saying for years, i.e., that being gay is "conduct" and not a biologically determined orientation?
Why do these fuckers think they can have it both ways?
Res Ipsa Loquitor
but res, you're using "rational" thought.
I had no idea Quakers support full rights for homosexuals. Is this true?
You can ask NTodd when he's around. he's a Quaker. I think they also support taking lots of pictures of cats, too.
Ba'al - Oh I know I don't have to make a choice. I couldn't agree more - equal rights and justice for every person in this country is the goal. Everyone.
That was the whole idea - and without real equal rights and justice for everyone, it will remain no more than an idea.
Morning, Mena!
By the way - I know very well that I don't know what it is like to be gay or lesbian in this culture. I know I have no idea what it is really like to be nonwhite in this culture.
I understand that.
Ba'al - Well, women started the whole race to the cure for breast cancer, so if you're concerned, perhaps men need to get active about pushing for a cure for prostate cancer.
Haloscan ate this (or will burp it out later).
so, again...
Pardon the inevitable ironic comment: this in a culture where showing female breasts in a movie will earn an "R" rating, but showing the parts nearest the prostate gland will earn triple "X" and banishment from decent society.
It's a strange world.
Harry Reid is really growing some balls:
Harry Reid Blasts Orrin Hatch
but res, you're using "rational" thought.
san antone rose ...
Oh, shit. /smacks self HARD/
I forgot.
That rule makes perfect sense to me!
Tena
ok. As it turns out, a lot of research on breast cancer applies to prostate cancer (mechanisms at molecular level are often similar).
One larger issue is that issues of men's health get much less coverage in the media than women's health issues.
This in spite of the fact that men have a significantly lower life expectancy. Quite significantly.
My only reason for mentioning this is that it is possible to "score points" based on one's membership in a group.
My pointing out that men have a lower life expectancy will undoubtedly raise howls of outrage from some whose basic argument will be that as a white male and therefore guilty of the sins of my group, I have no right to claim any sort of holy vitim status.
Fine.
But this white male happens to support women's issues, and a host of GLBST issues. But at a point resent getting resented.
U.S. District Judge Alexander Williams agreed with two groups that sued contending such discussions gave preference of religions that are tolerant of homosexuality over those that reject it.
Ah, the typical fiendish fundie argument: you bigots are trying to take away our right to be bigoted.
Isn't it amazing, how accurate exit polls are, everywhere but here.
Hoyt C.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
What I've been saying for a while.
And don't forget: Dionne (the colomnist)
found, based on July 2004 Census Bureau figures, that the 44 Democratic
Senators represent 148,026,027 people, while the 55 Republican Senators
represent 144,765,157. (Independent Vermont Senator Jim Jeffords, who
votes with the Democrats on such issues, represents 310,697, making the
gap even greater.)
We are not in the fucking minority here. And with the way the the theocons have been behaving, and w's insistance on gutting SS, our numbers are even greater now. But as long as two brothers, both staunch repukes, own 100% of the voting machines, we won't have a chance at a fair fight.
Spinoza--the temptation to work on this all day and not get anything done is overpowering.
Excellent! For I am human and I need to be loved. Just like anybody else does.
Thersites
When am I gonna learn to curb my enthusiasm?
Mornin' Mena...
congrats on the job situation resolving in your favor...
gotta take Hannah-Stella to the vet to have her stitches removed...
almost 3 weeks from the date of the event...
she's much better now, thanks...
later, gaiters...
.
QL - I know the Left is not the minority in this country, despite how hard the Repugs have worked to make us the minority. And they've had all the help they could possibly have wanted from the media. It works overtime trying to convince everyone that the Right is the majority.
What brought this on, people? Why are we comparing scars? EVERYBODY gets shit on in this culture, except the guys at the top. The rest of us have to jockey for position. People, being what we are, look for any advantage, and use it with relish. We here are fighting for the better side of humanity. Don't forget that.
"When am I gonna learn to curb my enthusiasm?"
Well, I could fire up the Kingsford...
By the way - I know very well that I don't know what it is like to be gay or lesbian in this culture. I know I have no idea what it is really like to be nonwhite in this culture.
Tena- I once had an hispanic lesbian student who told me she had just read a great novel that concerned an hispanic lesbian. I asked for the name of the novel so I could read it. Her response? "Oh, you would never understand it unless you were hispanic and a lesbian."
That brought up a very odd difference of opinion. My response was to say that I thought one of the purposes of literature was to allow the reader to explore experiences beyond himself or herself. I will never be a female in 19th Russia, but Tolstoy is presumably telling me something about what it might be like to be Anna Karenina. An even better example to my mind is Malraux's La Condition Humaine, which seems to have been written explicitly to make this point- the human condition which we all experience. But my student apparently saw each human's (or group of human's) condition as sort of like Leibniz's monad, and so we end up more with a mosaic than a commonality.
RMJ - It's a strange country. Nudity is sexual in America and I don't think that is necessarily so elsewhere.
But I understand your point - it's a bit harder to launch a public effort about the prostate. Cute graphics which can portray breasts in non-threatening ways are not so able to do the same thing with prostates.
Compare and contrast to Harry Reid:
A Missive from Pat Robertson to Frank Lautenberg
Thanks woody. Remember what kissinger is supposed to have said about university politics, that it's so vicious precisely because the stakes are so low? I teach high school, so just try to imagine....
I had no idea Quakers support full rights for homosexuals. Is this true?
++++++++++++++++=
Yes. And abortion rights. "If god intends for a soul to come into being, then neither a coat hanger, nor an abortionists scalpel will prevent it." As noted by one of the elders at a Meeting I used to attend.
And oh yeah, we are also anti-war and anti-racial discrimination. I was eleven when my meeting marched to the local Woolworth's to protest the fact that African-Americans were not served in the South. My first protest march.
Harry Reid Blasts Orrin Hatch
I love it the Mormon-on-Mormon catfights!
spinoza - I may have inadvertently started this with my answer to David E's comment, and if so, then perhaps it needed to be talked about.
It makes me uncomfortable, too, and I don't believe in comparative misery, so I didn't intend for my comment to go that way. I just wanted to point out that we have more in common than not.
Perhaps I'm wrong about that - at this point, I no longer know. LOL!
Spinoza--almost as much fun as fundoid on fundoid catfights
We are not in the fucking minority here. And with the way the the theocons have been behaving, and w's insistance on gutting SS, our numbers are even greater now. But as long as two brothers, both staunch repukes, own 100% of the voting machines, we won't have a chance at a fair fight.
QL in NY | Email | Homepage | 05.07.05 - 12:46 pm | #
Better watch it, the Kewl Kids on the left will think your wearing a tin foil hat.
Spinoza, I've had this argument many times, and have honed it (as is my wont) down to word-balloon size:
"Of course we can't share or duplicate how others feel. That's what we have intelligence for."
We Take Any Good News We Can Dept:
Bush's Dwindling 'Coalition'
"Of course we can't share or duplicate how others feel. That's what we have intelligence for."
pbg
===
Well said.
pbg-Interesting. I worry about the word, "intelligence," given that the Herrnsteins and Murrays of the world would then think they with their bloviating IQs are (were) more tuned to the human condition than, oh, say certain minorities.
Hell-o-scan is acting like it is going to have a breakdown any second now.
sallyh - the most fun fundoid fight I've seen lately is the one between Fred Phelps and SpongeDobStickyPants. I think it is utterly hilarious that Phelps traveled up to the Springs to protest SpongeDob's "tolerant" attitude toward homosexuality because SpongDob still believes God loves everyone and Fred doesn't think so. Fred's people told the Rocky Mountain news that SpongeDob's people were all going to hell "and there's not a thing they can do about it." Oh that had me ROFLMFAO.
Before someone mentions Nixon being a Quaker, I have to point out that each Meeting is autonomous. His Meeting voted to allow him to stay, even though he was waging war. My Meeting voted to write a letter to the draft board of any young man who attended just once, in an attempt to get that young man CO status since Quakers were automatically recognized as being COs.
If you go to the American Friends Service Committee website, you will see that the Quakers support every type of human rights and empowerment.
The AFSC supports gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender rights.
spinoza - I don't really believe the monad idea, because I believe in commonality. I think the barriers are totally artificial.
And I think you're understanding of literature is exactly right.
Tena--that one was even better than Celebrity Death Match.
Well, don't do anything crazy. Don't hang the DJ!
Thersites
Yeah but hold on to your friends.
your understanding...
I really hate making that error so often.
pbg-Interesting. I worry about the word, "intelligence," given that the Herrnsteins and Murrays of the world would then think they with their bloviating IQs are (were) more tuned to the human condition than, oh, say certain minorities.
===
You think they don't already? In an intelligent world, these guys would be cleaning toilets. Alas, I don't think we'll ever have that world, but that doesn't mean we can't reassert some actual meaning for the word.
My family came here in 1680 looking for religious freedom, and finally settled in what is now Ohio, but was then a part of PA. That's why I laugh when the theocons tell me I should go back to where I came from. LOL. These days that doesn't sound like such a bad idea. If the Brits would have us, we'd be gone in a NY minute.
I knew there was a reason I hated that shill Barbara Bradley Hagerty:
Barbara Bradley Hagerty: Shill for the Fundoids
Does anyone know if she bears any relation to Lynde & Harry Bradley, whose foundation supports a myriad of right wing causes?
Since I am unlikely to stop using microsoft products I will instead put aside my libertarian stance and urge crippling interference with the Microsoft business practices.
Ask Senator John Kerry if he will run again for president in 2008, and the answer comes back swift and sure: "I don't have any clue."
yeah, that's Kerry for you, swift and sure :p
way to give a direct, frank answer there Honest John- no wonder you have such a rep for being a straight shooter.
btw, speaking of "swift" and sure, 97 days ago, John Kerry promised, on national TV, to sign form SF-180 and release his military records. He has yet to do so.
Of course just to show you I'm not blindly partisan the way you liberals are, I'd also like to see Bush explain the following:
has anyone seen:
Any pages from Bush's flight log
Records from the Flight Inquiry Board convened after Bush was suspended as a pilot
Any evidence of Bush's reclassification into another AFSC after suspension as a pilot
Any photos of George Bush in a military uniform after 1972
Anything at all from any Alabama unit with Bush's name on it
Any copies of form 44a from the Alabama National Guard certifying attendance
Air Force Form 142 (Aviation Service Audit Worksheet)
Anything proving service (not just receipt of pay) by Bush between May 1972 and May 1973?
Spinoza:
Well, if I used the word 'reason' it would sound kinda 18th century....
But to get semantic about it, 'intelligence' is about right. Intelligence (IMHO) is a skill, not a talent or an attribute--the ability to find things out. You can be 'smart' and have 'brain power', but unless you kn ow how to use it, you ain't 'intelligent.' And that has as much to do with avoiding traps and bad habits as having horsepower.
As my sensei Stan Lee once put it: "What? You mean I have to waste my highly powered brain on plain ordinary thinking?"
Perhaps GWB should release HIS military records.
Hmm...10:03, PDT (1:03, EDT)
I guess the Saturday afternoon shift has arrived. A bit late, I might add, but hey, it's Saturday
And I guess I'd have to admit that it's more important for Bush to release this information since he's actually president and Kerry is not.
Since Bush is actually ordering people to go to Iraq and die, I do think it's incumbant upon him to be upfront about his guard service.
From the comments at the ebay link that san antoine rose posted at 12:11pm...
On May-05-05 at 10:22:17 PDT, seller added the following information:
This was a great email i thought you all would enjoy
"No matter how you slice it, I think what you are doing is crummy. I don't mean to sound stale but you should try to do more with your time besides loafing off at your computer".
This reeks of Eli.
Fucking Puppets, smelling up the room again.
I guess some of our trolls don't realize that the campaign is over.
Or else they just don't have one damned thing to say in support of their preznit anymore, so they are all busy knocking Kerry, like it still mattered all that much.
I can understand their dilemma - the Repugs are insupportable at this point.
Perhaps GWB should release HIS military records.
Agree. See my previous posts. As I said, I'll have to admit the media hasn't been quite as insistent that Bush release all his records as they have about Kerry.
I think that's because the media wanted to see Bush re-elected for obvious reasons (freedom on the march in Iraq) but now that Bush is president again, I think he should release everything that's being asked of him.
Well, C-SPAN3 booknotes for this afternoon:
Interview with the bloviating George Schultz
Tour of the Reagan Library (the one book is kept in a shoebox)
1994 Interview with Nancy Reagan reading her whoroscope-Just say No!
followed by the sounds of C-SPAN3 staff wretching
Bush lied and will continue to lie, and nothing will be revealed. If that were the case, he'd be in Leavenworth and he knows it.
Central--are you sure Eli didn't compose that?
puppets makes a good point, and why don't we as Democrats demand Kerry be more forthcoming about his military service, as critical as we were of Bush. After all, you don't have 200+ of Bush's comrades and superior officers coming forward saying he's unfit for service. We are being as hypocritical as we were about Clinton's abuse of women if we do.
and here's some news from Iraq
Iraq Update
Iraq’s democratically-elected government filled those cabinet posts about which the liberal media was complaining.
And, yes, lo and behold, they chose a Sunni for the job of Defense Minister.
Which probably makes the Iraqi government more “inclusive” than the modern-day version of the Democratic Party.
John Kerry cannot sign Form 180 without everyone finding out that he's a liar.
He obviously did a cost-benefit anlysis during the election and decided against disclosure.
He would have lost by an even wider margin had he given up his full record.
pbg- I guess I am sensitized to the word, intelligence. Psychology's use of the term is one of the great evils of the discipline. SJ Gould did a masterly job of trashing things like "little g" and such in The Mismeasure of Intelligence. So I think we agree.
Sally - how's the ankle?
hey, if you guys are going to post using my handle in a cowardly, typical Democrat/liberal lame play, I'm just going to start posting as random liberals. Really mess with your minds!
Shame you can't debate me with facts, you have to resort to name-stealing because you have no ideas or intellect- oh wait, that's like the national Dem party! Never mind, the trope is explained.
:D
Mena--was the knee, and it's fine. Thanks. Now I have no excuse for not cleaning today.
Post at 1.24 is not mine.
Sallyh,
Do you know something about this that I don't? I haven't been around much in the last several days.
It certainly looks like Eli's handiwork to me.
I think all you liberals you should look at this comparison of Bush's and Kerry's records and decide for yourselves.
And stop stealing my name or I'm going to steal yours.
I'm off, so any subsequent posts are not mine.
Glad to hear it, Sallyh. I've got domestic stuff to do today too. I'm off now to take Petey to the vet. See you guys later on.
This is an absolutely must read for anybody thinking about Bush's and Kerry's military records.
From Sallyh's link quoting Haggerty:
Journalism informed by a Christian worldview will glorify Christ and make an eternal impact, said Barbara Bradley Hagerty. ... "When you or I as Christ-followers go to work each day, we have to perform our jobs in a fundamentally different way from other people because our employer is Christ and everything we do has to be run through the filter of this question: How does Jesus Christ view my performance? It raises the bar higher than the most demanding editor or supervisor could possibly do," she said. ... Christian journalists must decide to make God their primary audience.
How did she get a job on NPR. I don't mind someone being religious, but journalists are supposed to be neutral, or at least make a stab at giving the appearance of being neutral.
It you compare which Republicans and Democrats served, it's easy to see who it favors.
Prominent Democrats
Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71. (1, 2)
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72 (1, 2)
Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72 (1, 2)
Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon. More facts about Gore's Service
Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam (1, 2)
Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two (1, 2)
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat (1)
Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea (1, 2)
Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam (1, 2)
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953. (1)
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. (1, 2)
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91 (1)
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. (1)
Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal. (1, 2)
Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit. (1, 2)
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart. (1, 2)
Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V." (1)
Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. (1)
Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career.
Prominent Republicans
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve (1). "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume, but not such a friend to cats in Boston.)
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve (1)
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (1)
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. (1) Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh?
VP Cheney - several deferments (1, 2), the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service") (1)
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1, 2); received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve. (1)
Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve (1), too busy being a Republican.
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve (1, 2)
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments
Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so? At least Senators Cleland (D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE) defended him.
Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man. http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php
Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam. http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/Inf...rmation/
bio.htm
Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations http://www.house.gov/cunningham/
...e.htm#Biography
Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves, 1973-1986
Colin Powell. What are we to make of Powell? On the one hand, a long career as a military manager. On the other hand, accused of covering up the My Lai massacre. Back on that first hand, one of the seemingly sane voices in this administration when it comes to Iraq (or at least he used to be). On the other hand, a clear hypocrite ("I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...")
Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.
btw, speaking of "swift" and sure, 97 days ago, John Kerry promised, on national TV, to sign form SF-180 and release his military records. He has yet to do so.
Allow me be the first to borrow a phrase you asshats coined: get over it.
At this point, I don't really care that much about anyone's service records.
What the hell difference would it make now? Bush is in the WH.
S, I agree completely with the abuse of the term intelligence.
From racism and fascism down to dealing with assholes who think they're 'intelligent' because they scored high on a test and therefore feel their arguments are automatically better--it's caused immense amounts of societal damage.
Hey Atriots, if you haven't read Stephen Jay Gould's The Mismeasure of Man, run, do not walk to the bookstore or library and read it. It's one of the most appalling books you'll ever read. And SJG delivers the smackdown like the thunderbolts of Jove.
What the hell difference would it make now? Bush is in the WH.
That's why, to be fair, I think it's important we release Bush's records too.
I think it's also very importan to release all of John O'Neil's connection to the Nixon administration (as well as the financial records of prominent Swift Boat supporters).
For example, Felix Rodriguez? Is his hostility towards Kerry based on principle or the fact that Kerry invistigated his shady financial dealings in the 1980s.
I'm not sure why the media didn't talk about that. Does anybody else have any ideas?
Wow, serious copy-paster wingnuttery here. Anyone still digging that swift boat nonsense is a deranged cretin.
Hey fellow ocelots!
Just dropped by to say FUCK BUSH!
*and I mean it this time...
Have a great day, ya'll!
Hack may be down, but we still have the estimable Joe Galloway.
Rand report underscores failings in Iraq
By Joe Galloway
05-07-2005
WASHINGTON — It isn’t all that often that a think tank dependent on government contracts dares tell the emperor that he is naked, and that makes a recent Rand Corp. report to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on lessons learned in Iraq all the more remarkable.
The Rand report puts the finger on what went wrong there and makes “a case for change, and even urgency” in fixing those problems in a brief and frank distillation of what its researchers found in more than 20 studies focused on the Iraq invasion and what has followed.
snip
Again putting a finger on a major problem, the Rand study sharply criticized the Pentagon for failure to plan in detail for postwar stabilization and reconstruction “largely because of the prevailing view that the task would not be difficult.”
snip
The Rand study added, with understatement, “Some process for exposing senior officials to possibilities other than those being assumed in their planning also needs to be introduced.”
etc.
---------------
Sometimes the 2 x 4 process works with mules, so I suggest a pilot program be authorized, targeting leadership in the Pentagon, WH, and Congress.
Damn.
Did Atrios escape to Ibiza or something?
I read recently, somewhere wish I could remember, that part of the reason the repukes are having so much trouble putting across their plan to destroy SS and other matters is that the dems are acting like they are still in campaign mode and fighting them every inch of the way. As GWPDA pointed out we are beginning not to lose, and this is a good thing.
Gotta love Old Europe - people gathering in freezing weather nude for an art project.
Yeah, that would happen here. LOL!
er, Tena sweetie, Spencer Tunick has conducted naked shoots all over the USA.
behold:
http://www.i-20.com/artist.php?a...ges&
work_id=294
What the hell difference would it make now? Bush is in the WH.
Tena
It only makes a difference to assholes who have to find something else to hate.
Their boy Bush is nothing to cheer about, so they have to hate on Kerry.
weltschmerz = Ted Smith
weltshcmerz - well, that just shuts me right up about that, doesn't it? LOL!
Thanks for the link.
When we're living in a culture that insists on covering the bronze breasts of a statue of Justice, forgive me for thinking that America isn't very mature about nudity.
Remember what kissinger is supposed to have said about university politics, that it's so vicious precisely because the stakes are so low? I teach high school, so just try to imagine....
mena |- - 12:53 pm
intramural spats in college and university faculties can be stupid and small-minded...but i think Kissinger was repeating a canard.
The real reason why REAL academic disputes are so fierce is more related to the fact that academia has both the largest share and the largest stake in the MOST important debates in our society: What counts as evidence, and who says...
hence the firey, ferocious disputes between empiricism and interpretivism, for instance, are not about office space and grad students (though those may be the terms in which they are fought), but are instead about truth conditions, a much more relevant concern...
imho, i mean...
.
Fed Up - ah.
didn't see it, see it now.
Another Bruce - just what I was saying earlier. There's nothing left of the Bush administration that can be cheered about, so the irrelevant is all the trolls have.
It boils down to Kerry and liberal blogs -
Fuck - Kerry, liberal blogs and of course the omnipotent Clenis™
Fred Astaire as compared to Ronald McDonald.
Sharkbabe
Bill Clinton as compared to Fuckwad Bush!
Hey Atriots, if you haven't read Stephen Jay Gould's The Mismeasure of Man, run, do not walk to the bookstore or library and read it.
pbg, you're preaching to the choir here, i believe...and i'd hazard to guess that most, if not all, of those who regularly comment have read it...
you're among friends here, brotha...
The real reason why REAL academic disputes are so fierce is more related to the fact that academia has both the largest share and the largest stake in the MOST important debates in our society: What counts as evidence, and who says...
I've worked in offices and academia, and saw nothing to lead me to believe that visiousness and drama are any worse in the one than the other. Pettiness and vindictiveness, and brown-nosing and false smarm are hardly in short supply anywhere. In academia, though, people have tenure, so the battles can last decades.
And someone can tell Kissinger from me that academic politics are not really nastier than the politics of the fucking NIXON WHITE HOUSE.
OT (or was this an open thread already???)
anyway, here's some more shit from the Busheviks:
Dick Cheney's Incredible, Imperial, Infallible Vice Presidency: White House Defies Biden and Lugar on Bolton Intercepts
The word is out.
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee will not get the much-wanted National Security Agency intercepts in which John Bolton expressed so much interest during his tenure as Under Secretary of State for International Security and Arms Control. Under Secretaries with questionable intentions can get the transcripts -- but Senators with Constitutional oversight responsibilities seemingly cannot.
Dick Cheney and John Bolton's protectors are ever more committed to an imperial presidency -- unchallenged by other institutions of the U.S. government.
------------More at the link-------------
Like a toadstool, they spawn in shit pools:
These Repukes, and their cocksucking "rules."
Their souls are dark pits.
They're just fucking misfits.
Would the Lord make such monstrous ghouls?
Hey, my latest (short) podcast is posted.
It boils down to Kerry and liberal blogs -
Tena
True, that.
But I'm in the anti-Kerry camp myself at this point, due to his offensive opposition to gay marriage in MA. Almost unforgivable...
Hey NTodd--hate to ask you to stay on shift, but Larry's off translating French again--would you mind keeping the nail gun for the moment?
Hey, my latest (short) podcast is posted.
NTodd
Hey, NTodd--Miriam and I listened to your HG2G podcast last night and loved it!
I think one of the reasons those on the right find academic politics so vicious is that they can't hope to compete in that environment. And based on Horror Stories from the Private Sector that Monsieur relates on a daily basis, I have to believe that it might be better in academia than in other places.
Tena, it wasn't our culture that wanted those bronze boobies covered. It was John Asscroft.
I think one of the reasons those on the right find academic politics so vicious is that they can't hope to compete in that environment.
Heh. That hadn't occurred to me...
"We're out of our league; therefore, y'all are 'vicious.'"
Under Secretaries with questionable intentions can get the transcripts -- but Senators with Constitutional oversight responsibilities seemingly cannot.
That's so September tenth©.
And as for vicious individuals, I suspect more of them reside in MBA programs than in certain other specialties.
Sallyh - no sweat.
rory - yay! Are you going to see the flick this weekend?
NTodd - I really enjoyed that - that was the first podcast I've listened to and it was great.
You rock, baby!
I'm busy inventing a new Rapture© OS in my pajamas even as we speak!
...
...I mean in my basement.
NTodd--will you take triple overtime in the form of triple chocolate brownies?
rory - yay! Are you going to see the flick this weekend?
NTodd
No time, alas. Packing today, flying to Germany tomorrow...
Good afternoon, Moonbats! It's a gorgeous day here in DC. I've been putting in tarragon and coleus. And mulching like a madwoman.
And as for vicious individuals, I suspect more of them reside in MBA programs than in certain other specialties.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere-2:20 pm
i can cite five tenets the understanding of which will provide the learner with the entire philosophical framework for the 'academic' specialty of 'Business':
1) Three things matter in 'Bidness': Location, location, and location
2) Buy low, sell high.
3) Never give a sucker an even break.
4) The fool and his money are soon parted
4a) There's a fool born every minute.
5) Nobody ever lost money underestimating the taste of average Americans.
if you internalize these five maxims, you can 1) get an MBA from any school in the country and 2) get hired by any GOPhuque Corporation in the world afterwards...
Any 'business' degree is a fucking JOKE!
just sayin...
rorschach - yeah, I don't agree with Kerry's statement about homosexual rights, either, and it bothers me deeply that he is more in line with Bush's view than with what I believe the Democrats' position should be.
I think he was wrong and it disturbs me.
sanantone - so are you arguing that Americans are mature about nudity here, and that only Ashcroft has a problem? Because I don't think that's correct.
Instead of the statue, let's use Janet Jackson's tit as an example, then.
Hecate--were I a gardener, I'd say it sounds lovely. Alas, I get my regeneration via baking. But I'm happy to hear you've been out in the soil, and it's lovely to see you.
Under Secretaries with questionable intentions can get the transcripts -- but Senators with Constitutional oversight responsibilities seemingly cannot.
That's so September tenth©.
I think Tena is on point here. While Asscrap took the extreme measure of covering Justice's boobs (and Christ on biscuits and gravy, could he have gotten a worse designer?), but we have a large cultural element that fears anything related to the body and its functions and structure.
Did anyone else read the recent three-part series on global warming in the New Yorker? If not, you definitely should run, not walk, to the library and read it. Especially the second part that deals with global drought; it should scare every single sentinent being into action.
Hecate--you are right in that it will scare every sentient being, but regrettably, about 50 percent of the US population has lost that attribute.
New thread- Atrios Gone Wild!
I think Tena is on point here. While Asscrap took the extreme measure of covering Justice's boobs (and Christ on biscuits and gravy, could he have gotten a worse designer?), but we have a large cultural element that fears anything related to the body and its functions and structure.
Sallyh
Yep. I wonder what this country would look like without that broad Puritan streak that runs through it.
It'd be much better. More nudity, fewer neuroses. Maybe even a siesta...
Then again, it takes the sexual repression of the entire Bible Belt to generate the libidinal outburst of a New Orleans, so there's always a silver lining.
Sallyh,
You are right; at least 50 percent has been lulled into a waking sleep where they worry about American Idol and runaway brides while we careen straight for global disaster. It just drives me nuts.
Why is anybody surprised that Kerry is selling out the glbt folks?
He's a DLC kinda guy, one of them who believes the more like a fascist fuckwit one becomes, the better chance one has of being elected to whatsoever it is to which one desires to be elected...
For me, Kerry never demonstrated a single principle for which he would go to the wall...
and he fucking quit coming out of the club-house turn...
i'm soooooo over mr. kerry as a viable candidate...nevermore...
Rorschach--you'd get page 3 naked girls in the paper, just like in Europe
tena - i'm glad you liked it, and welcome to the wonderful world of podcasting!
ror - oh yeah, i forgot you were travelling. bummer. hope you get back in time to see it in the theater.
sallyh - your offer of overtime pay is unnecessary and appreciated.
Why is anybody surprised that Kerry is selling out the glbt folks?
That tone in my voice is not surprise. Just righteous anger...
Hecate, et al...
it's been a kind of article of conscience among the left/enviro-squads for the last 10-15 years that the next REAL crisis is not gonna be over the lack of fuel, but over the pollution, corruption of potable water resources...
ENRON's most heinous crime was/is not its almost comically easy manipulation of the USer power grid for its own profit; rather it is its grossly cynical plans to coopt potable water distribution networks in mostly defenseless third-world locales...to, in effect, privatize public water systems and sell the resource to the highest bidder...
for this, if for no other reason, the company--and any other like or similar enterprise--deserves to die.
.
Hecate & sallyh - I just don't understand why Americas refuse to believe that global warming is a problem.
I get the newspaper from Lake City and the guy there who is head of our little astronomical association has been running comparisons of high and low temperature averages from 50 and more years ago and today. The temperature has gone up across the board. Day and nighttime temps are averaging higher than they used to. It's just so damned obvious.
The temperature has gone up across the board. Day and nighttime temps are averaging higher than they used to.
Well, at least they're making it easier on us, once we all have to move to Canada to escape the tyranny!
You are right; at least 50 percent has been lulled into a waking sleep where they worry about American Idol and runaway brides while we careen straight for global disaster. It just drives me nuts.
actually, it's closer to 75 percent, a testament to the incredible success of the US School System (public AND private) over the last century...
Atrios says "No one knows how to stir up shit and get stuff to happen better than John Aravosis" yet doesn't link to his site. Here is the best web log for political updates.
http://americablog.blogspot.com/
Geez Atrios, put a link on your plug..
not the same john
WGG,
I knew there was a reason I loved you. Enron's short-lived attempt to corner the world's water scared the shit out of me. I've always believed that the next real world-wide war will be fought over water. It may already be too late, but Goddess, I wish we'd gotten a president who believed in science instead of that mad cowboy dominionist we're stuck with.
About the dcss comments above this one.
Uhh, dcss, IS a linux library to play DVDs & can be installed in Debian varients, from one of the debian-marillat sites, which can be found if not already in your /etc/apt/sources.list by searching "apt-get.org".
RPM or other types of linux distros can also install the dcss libs, but get the dcss libs in other ways.
sanantone - so are you arguing that Americans are mature about nudity here, and that only Ashcroft has a problem? Because I don't think that's correct.
Instead of the statue, let's use Janet Jackson's tit as an example, then.
Tena
I'm saying that on the bronze boobie issue, no one gave a flying doughnut about it until Asscroft made his prurient feelings known. And even then I don't think anyone really cared. We just all rolled our eyes.
Nope, not arguing that Americans can handle a little T&A. Because we can't. Or rather, when the media or our politicians get lathered up about an issue we can't. Janet's boob, being a live, pierced, and therefore threatening boob, was latched on to by the media and was milked for all...well, you know.
I think our "moral outrage" over these issues is fueled more by the media than individuals, and then groupthink takes over and we all behave as if we don't like sexy cheerleaders and shirtless Aberzombie boys at the mall.
It may already be too late, but Goddess, I wish we'd gotten a president who believed in science instead of that mad cowboy dominionist we're stuck with.
Hecate |- 3:06 pm
goddess, i bask in your approval as a crocodile on a midday mudbank...
being a Westerner, i've been sensitive to water issues for dog-years...
.
mogwai: Do you think being gay in America is worse than say... Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or Iran?
hey, if you guys are going to post using my handle in a cowardly, typical Democrat/liberal lame play, I'm just going to start posting as random liberals. Really mess with your minds!
Shame you can't debate me with facts, you have to resort to name-stealing because you have no ideas or intellect- oh wait, that's like the national Dem party! Never mind, the trope is explained.
:D
Actually Kerry's military records are relevant because he's running again. I have to say I think its actually very lucky for the country Bush was elected and not Kerry. Kerry would have been a disaster. Bush makes mistakes, but honestly like any human might do. Kerry is truly evil and malicious. I trust Bush, and actually the Iraq sitation is improving and looks like the entire Arab world is going through a democratic revolution, and Bush deserves the credit. Kerry would have cut and run.
fellow NYers -
any of you listen to WNYC? Is it me or didn't they just fucking HAVE a pledge drive
You must remember that Laura Walker makes upwards of $300k per year (that was the figure several years ago), and I assume there are other bloated salaries there, as well.
I have another mission for John: get that Christ-bitten creep Ralph Reed off the Microsoft payroll.
Incog
Not all "liberal" Dems have forgotten to stand up for those scapegoated groups, including gay & lesbian, that you list.
Hate a straight with your narrow arrow. Feel free. But don't eliminate all your allies. Wouldn't be prudent. Consider:
"First they came for Tinky-Winky -- and I said something." [Liberal Dems didn't.]
Anybody else get an odd feeling on Sept 11, 2001, when the second World Trade Center tower got hit, that what we were really seeing then was a pillar of smoke and a pillar of flame?
I ask because I'm sure a lot of the fundamentalists would have instantly seen it that way. And remember the United Church of Christ are full of liberal Dems -- see the article: "SpongeBob receives 'unequivocal welcome' from United Church of Christ" at:
http://www.ucc.org/news/r012405.htm
Pup, stop name-stealing Thersites.
Thank you.
Said Rev. John H. Thomas, the UCC's general minister and president, said, only partly in jest. "Jesus didn't turn people away. Neither do we."
btw -- that brilliant stroke of actually having Spongebob visit the UCC's "pope" actually made it to politically inactive places like the GamersNook website, which posted this:
CLEVELAND -- Joining the animated fray, the United Church of Christ today (Jan. 24) said that Jesus' message of extravagant welcome extends to all, including SpongeBob Squarepants - the cartoon character that has come under fire for allegedly holding hands with a starfish.
"Absolutely, the UCC extends an unequivocal welcome to SpongeBob," the Rev. John H. Thomas, the UCC's general minister and president, said, only partly in jest. "Jesus didn't turn people away. Neither do we."
For that matter, Thomas explained, the 1.3-million-member church, if given the opportunity, would warmly receive Barney, Big Bird, Tinky-Winky, Clifford the Big Red Dog or, for that matter, any who have experienced the Christian message as a harsh word of judgment rather than Jesus' offering of grace.
The UCC's welcome comes in the wake of laughable accusations by James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, that the popular SpongeBob and other well-known cartoon characters are crossing "a moral line" by stressing tolerance in a national We Are Family Foundation-sponsored video that will be distributed to U.S. schools on March 11, 2005.
http://www.gamersnook.com/blog/h...led/
003030.html
Oh my, the ARROGANCE of bloggers!
Microsoft reversed its position because Microsoft employees, particularly GLEAM (Gay and Lesbian Employees At Microsoft), but other employees as well, Equal Rights Washington (the state's largest GLBT political advocacy organization), HRC (the nation's largest GLBT political advocacy organization), prominent local activists, and local and federal legislators (including Jay Inslee, Patty Murray, and Maria Cantwell) organized campaigns, wrote letters, issued press releases, made statements, and otherwise brought pressure to bear on the company for their decision.
They organized online petitions, held town hall meetings, mobilized people through earned media resulting from press releases and action alerts, and spoke to Microsoft representatives directly. And I can assure you that most of the people who did all that work never heard of John Aravosis. All John did was link to a story in a local paper that is widely read by the gay community in Seattle. In fact, HRC and ERW and our state legislators had been working on the problem before John even knew it existed.
So pardon me if I take the slightest offense to your statement. You do people no favor by making a comment that suggests that the key to changing the world is sitting in a reclining chair and posting snipes online with your donated laptop, while making a king's ransom off of blog ads. It actually takes a bit more than that to affect change in reality land.
In reality land, people bust their butts 20 and 30 hours a week in a volunteer capacity on top of their full time jobs to make these things happen. And we struggle to raise the kind of funding that bloggers get just sitting there preaching to a choir also glued to their computer chairs -- something that does very little to affect any real change. Perhaps you should sign up with the 101st flying keyboarders. You appear to have a very similar mentality.
The interesting thing about this controversy, from the perspective of somebody who is not too worked up over it one way or the other, is that we have the spectacle of the left pushing a huge corporation to manipulate the political system. This seems to be a dangerous point of view for people who generally are not big fans of corporate power. Recognizing that you can't keep corporations from taking steps to defend their specific business interests (see Microsoft try to pressure the federal government to take action against software piracy, for example), isn't it a little dangerous to suggest that they get involved in matters that are only tenuously related to their own mission?
Indeed, as a Microsoft stockholder, I would have thought that the most sensible position for Microsoft would be neutrality. After all, Microsoft has more gay-friendly policies than those required under Washington law, so it stands to reason that Microsoft has been able to recruit good gay employees that were, in effect, segregated into Microsoft by more hostile employers. Isn't this to MSFT's advantage?
Victory?
War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
...and now...
Defeat is Victory.
Brilliant.
I'm with RJ. Microsoft employees, both gay and straight, went BALLISTIC over this, deluging Ballmer with email.
The very principled and courageous Jeff Koertzen, a MSFT employee and secretary-treasurer for GLEAM, quit his job over it.
Not to say that when its employees say jump, Ballmer asks how high, but management pays a great deal more attention its employees' opinions than it does to that of the blogosphere.
This is leaving aside the point that the core of AmericaBlog's work was based on original reporting done by Sandeep Kaushik at the Stranger.
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