I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Just ine more in a long list of hypocracies from Bush.
Fuck (cough, cough) Bush!
Better to ask about all those fertility treatments, with the embryos "harvested" from the womb, and the petri dishes tossed away.
If it's bad to destroy life to save life, isn't it still worse, even blasphemnous, to take life in order to create it?
BLOGWHORE
It looks like there may be some cracks in the wall of Republican solidarity.
Another desperate and pathetic liberal lie! Only guilty life has been destroyed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
That of course includes some who are guilty by association.
..
C'mon, it's not hypocrisy. He's against destroying life to save life. Ok. He didn't say he was against destroying life for profit.
Well, I don't think anyone could do a better job of illustrating the idiotic duplicity of that particular statement than Digby did. My hat's off.
Let us all keep in mind also that the embryonic lives of which Mr. Bush speaks were destined to be destroyed anyway, as what they are is leftover 8-cell or so embryos from in vitro fertilization procedures. If the couple from whom they were made already has the desired number of offspring, those embryos are headed down the drain anyway, but thanks to the Madness of King George, they must be destroyed completely in vain, rather than in an effort to save and/or improve countless lives. The idiocy of it is just staggering.
This, I think is a double-plus STRONG Democratice talking point. We should harp on it constantly.
Bush is hypocrisy personified.
How does he keep up this incredible pace? Every day he just gets more and more stupid.
Errrr... excuse me, I meant "stoopid."
Better to ask about all those fertility treatments, with the embryos "harvested" from the womb, and the petri dishes tossed away.
If it's bad to destroy life to save life, isn't it still worse, even blasphemnous, to take life in order to create it?
Jay
Jay,
the Vatican agrees with you. Of course, they don't exactly publicize this loudly, and the media rarely, if ever, mentions. Gee, I wonder why?
I don't want Bush dead,
i want him crippled and dying of Lou Gehrig's Disease...
i want his daughters to come down with ms, both of 'em...
i want his dad lapsing into senile dementia and shitting all over mama babs...
i want that simpering, swaggering, scampering, stuttering, smirking, sycophantic Chimp to pay BIG TIME...
just hopin'
.
Fux News: "Recent tests by Intelligent Designers reveal that the world will end in 2006. They also indicate that the Earth is not flat, as previously supposed, but wingnut-shaped. 'Sure, we made a few minor errors,' admitted Cedric McNutley, president of the Rapture Readiness Society, 'but we were a damn sight closer than the so-called evolutionists. By rights, though, the world should have gone belly up 1000 years after Christ was born. We'll have to recheck the Scriptures.
It's probably just some ciphering boo-boo. Who the hell knows what a cubit is anyway?'"
When genius strikes, you can feel the spark.
No longer must we curse the dark.
Our future is clear:
We have but a year.
Get your ass on that heavenly Ark.
Jay,
RE:Better to ask about all those fertility treatments, with the embryos "harvested" from the womb, and the petri dishes tossed away.
Indeed. That would be the only logically consistent position that the wingers could take on this -- to outlaw in vitro fertilization and its attendant destruction of potentially viable embryos. I sure hope that they go ahead and try that, because it would be to grasp the third rail with both hands. But they won't. Logical consistency is obviously not high on their list of priorities.
Yowsers. That kind of cognitive dissonance must be painful.
Woooooohooooooooo
eleventyfrist!!!!!!
Bush is a freaking idiot.
"Well, I don't think anyone could do a better job of illustrating the idiotic duplicity of that particular statement than Digby did. My hat's off."
Digby is fucking incredible, but almost every day I visit his site I get sad.
What makes me sad is that virtually every day here Atrios finds examples of Wanker of the Day. Talentless hacks that lack the ability to reason and write. They get paid good $, obscene money, for their shit 'work product'.
The few hacks that do represent 'our side' in the MSM are weak, apologists, enablers, wimps. Why can't we get a single columnist with the talent and passion of a Digby in the MSM? Why doesn't 'our side' nurture that talent and provide a place for it, pay it well? Why are so many toiling away in the relative obscurity of the blogosphere?
Yowsers. That kind of cognitive dissonance must be painful.
radsaq -1:05 pm
doubtful, as the Chimperor seems to be too stupid, and too insulated, to have moments of cognitive dissonance...
You know, I think an honest pastor in one of those megachurches should stand up in church one Sunday and say
1) OK all those of you who are gay have to leave.
2) Now all of you who have had an abortion (and men whose lovers have had abortions) you have to leave too.
3) Now all of you who have been divorced, you have to go.
4) Now everyone who has been to a fertility clinic (where unused embryos
are thrown away) you have to leave.
How many folks would he have left in his congregation. About 17%?
I posted on this story here yesterday and it seemed to be roundly misinterpreted by many. There are two issues here: Cloning and stem cell research. The point that many misunderstood was that in order to generate mass quantities of "embryonic stem cells", the most versatile type, cloning must be employed. This means that a whole embryo must be created but not taken to term. Many seemed to think that this was immoral... I had later realized that I had failed to ask those same people what their stance on abortion was.
Woody,
RE:I don't want Bush dead,
I think Cary Elwes summarized that treatment as "to the pain" in Princess Bride. But leave his daughters out of it. They can't help who their asshole daddy is, and we have to wait and see what they turn into when they grow up before condemning them to a horrible fate. Look at Ron Reagan, after all. He's not so bad.
GP: Doesn't work that way.
all ya gots ta do is repent and invite Jeezis into your life again...
over and over and over...
these cheesy, greedy, fascist talibornagains and talibangelist ministers sell salvation with the collection plate...
luther's SOOOOOOO pissed...
.
blerb,
I think actually that Georgie has a brilliant strategy...
once the fundie takeover is complete, these left-over embryos will be implanted in teenage female wards of the state.
These babies will be called "freedom babies" and will be given to loving Xtian couples who can't have children otherwise.
They will be raised to hate us and to become the vanguard of elite units of "freedom soldiers" who will hunt us liberals down in our wireless coffee houses, tapas bars and sundry hangouts.
They will take us to reeducation camps where glowsticks up the ass will be a prominent teaching method.
This, of course, will only occur after they have subjected the brown peoples of the earth. and the french and germans.
I hear that such efforts to produce these sweet little x-tian babies are being tested in Jeb's Florida Department of Families and Children.
President Bush on Friday condemned stem cell research advances in South Korea..
Just when you think it can't get any worse the pretzelnit condemns fucking research advances.
To you suppose we have to regress all the way past the Magna Carta to satisfy the neobarbarians or will just reversing history to pre-Voltaire be enough?
-
This means that a whole embryo must be created but not taken to term. Many seemed to think that this was immoral... I had later realized that I had failed to ask those same people what their stance on abortion was.
DA
What do you mean by "a whole embryo"?
This is a sincere (not snarky) question.
DA--cloning embryonic cells, however, is not the same as cloning a human being to be slain for its organs. We're discussing creating totipotent cells here through the technique of cloning, which is already widespread in most biolabs.
I blogged about the stem cell story the other day.
The only people who support shutting down this research are the crazy people. This is a win win issue for the Democrats. The public likes advances in medical science - they want to fight disease and I think they know this research has incredible potential.
Bush is such a fucking idiot.
Speaking of the Bush spawn, how's that teaching gig going for Jenna? A charter school in DC, wasn't it?
If she ever started that job, the parents of kids in her class must have LOVED reading all about her butt dance on some bar.
What a great role model!
But leave his daughters out of it. They can't help who their asshole daddy is, and we have to wait and see what they turn into when they grow up before condemning them to a horrible fate.
blerb
none of the pain and suffering, none 0f the horror and fear, none of the death and destruction in the policies which Bush advances will ever register until it strikes him personally...he doesn't care a whit about other people's kids, or parents, or spouses. If the only to make him pay (and, insulated with money and power, there's is ONLY one way) is for terrible diseases to strike his children, then let the good times roll...and fuck 'em...
Diane--the only way these cells can be maximally useful is to take them before differentiation has occurred. That's pretty early on in the process.
As I've said repeatedly today and yesterday, HR810, a reasonable (and bi-partisan) bill to promote embryonic stem cell research is coming up for a vote sometime next week. If two-thirds of the House vote for it, it's veto proof.
We need to be burning telephone lines to the Congress Critters.
"In mammals, the expression totipotent stem cells is a misnomer: these" Link
Sallyh,
Thanks for the clarification.
I'll have one of those mimosas now, if you please.
Sorry, DA, I meant pluripotent.
DA:
RE:The point that many misunderstood was that in order to generate mass quantities of "embryonic stem cells", the most versatile type, cloning must be employed. This means that a whole embryo must be created but not taken to term
Huh? I am going to be blunt. You don't seem to know what you are talking about. The only difference between ES cells that are generated via IVF and those that are generated via cloning is the source of the genomic DNA of the embro that is generated. Everything else about it is the same. With IVF, you put an egg and a sperm together in a petri dish, and let the resultant embryo get to somewhere around 64 cells before dissociationg it into individual cells and plating it on a feeder cell layer in hopes of getting immortalized ES cells. With cloning, you yank the haploid nucleus out of an unferilized oocyte from one donor, replace it with the diploid nucleus of a somatic cell from another donor, speak some arcane magical incantations and add a pinch of Eye of Newt, and then let that resultant embryo grow to exactly the same stage and proceed as above. That is the only difference between ES cells generated by cloning or not. The only other difference, I guess, might be that if you let the IVF embryo go to term, it would be a new and unique individual, whereas if you let the cloned embro go to term, it would be an identical twin to the somatic cell donor. But we're not talking about that.
Diane--there be extra champagne in them there mimosas today.
Well, I despise the Bushes - all of them. But I don't wish terrible illnesses on them or anyone else. All I want is to get them out of our government for good.
Once they're gone, I don't give a shit about what happens to any of them. I just wish I never had to hear their names again.
I'll swim against the tide a little bit here and offer this opinion: Bush isn't an idiot.
It's worse than that- he's lazy and he doesn't care- the pedigree and the money insulated him from these kind of worries long ago.
If he or a member of his family get sick, the money's there to seek out whatever cure wherever it may be. And there won't be any questions asked about stem cells or cloning along the way, either- it'll be "Will this work?" He'll never make the connection, because for people like him, there's two sets of rules: one for them, one for us.
Nick--he's not an idiot. He's cunning and without conscience, and that's a dangerous combination. He willingly engages in ignorance.
What a great role model!
TheOtherWashington
Sorry, but if a person is a great teacher in the classroom I give less than a gnat's crap what she or he does in their off time. They can do butt dances till the damn things fall off.
Not to say the bushspawn meets the criteria, but I'm not going to advocate privacy rights and decry the stupidity of reality pop culture while using the same culture to skewer bush's idiot kid.
-
Damn a new thread before I finished my filibuster. Go to thread and read if you like.
blerb I wouldn't bring his daughters into it if they hadn't proved to be gigantic assholes in their own right.
Once they're gone, I don't give a shit about what happens to any of them. I just wish I never had to hear their names again.
Tena -- 1:21 pm
yeah, well, T, everybody knows you're a lot nicer person than am I...
i want to watch 'em rot in a gibbet...
Matt Damon?
WGG - I ain't all that nice.
What I really want are war crimes trials. I want that more than anything I can say, but I'm not going to get it.
So it wouldn't bother me one bit if the Bushes ended up being shunned by decent people, rather as Nixon was after he left.
blerb:
You might want to re-read your post...
Also you might want to think specifically about the impact of the differences between the DNA in IVF and cloned cells in respect too future therapeutic applications.
Sall...good morning ,please check your mail
*to*
Tena,
did you see the photoshopped nazi war crimes tribunal pic with w and his cronies that is circulating the internet?
I think Billmon did it.
How many folks would he have left in his congregation. About 17%?
GP
Mega churches are not about offending people. They're about marketing.
The biggest one here in Houston puts up billboards that say: "WE BELIEVE IN YOU!" And their "pastor" publishes best-sellers about You're Best Life Now!
Can't publish stuff like that and be judgmental. About anything. Because it's not about you in the world; it's about you as the world. The center of the world.
Bill McKibben described it correctly. Modern advertising is about making you, the individual consumer, the moral center of the universe, the still point around which everything revolves. Mega-churches are all about appealing to the "modern consumer."
They are interchangeable with Coca-Cola or Ford Motor Company. It's all about product, and selling product is all about "you."
honeyBearKelley:
REblerb I wouldn't bring his daughters into it if they hadn't proved to be gigantic assholes in their own right.
Um, maybe you should read my post again. That's precisely what I was saying to Woody's guitar...
The only people who support shutting down this research are the crazy people. This is a win win issue for the Democrats. The public likes advances in medical science - they want to fight disease and I think they know this research has incredible potential."
It's also a win-win for the goopers. They know the large majority of the public is for cures that can be derived from stem cell science, etc. They can pass all the symbolic bills they want, knowing full well chimp is gonna veto them. The end result is they can say they are for something they know will never pass the desk of the chimp.
Cynical bastards.
Podcast whore: speaking of a more lethal military and winning the war...
Sittenpretty--got it, thanks.
My father has Alzheimers, so a big FUCK YOU to Bush and his so-call "Culture of Life." I guess they have determined that a blob of cells are more important than my war hero father's life.....
blerb a thousand pardons.
I've had a knish and put my glasses back on.
DA:
REblerb:
You might want to re-read your post...
Also you might want to think specifically about the impact of the differences between the DNA in IVF and cloned cells in respect too future therapeutic applications.
If you want to have a meaning ful converstaion about this, you will have to refrain from equivocating. WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU SAYING? Why should I re-read my post? I know exactly what I said. What is the moral difference between dissociating a blastocyst generated by IVF and dissociating one generated by putting a somatic nucleus into an enucleate egg? That was my point. As to the therapeutic implications, I think it behooves you to list some credentials before telling me, a PhD academic molecular biology researcher at one of the world's best biomedical universities, what I need to consider. I have never actully made ES cells, but I think I do in fact know what I am talking about here. The main therapeutic implication of cloned ES cells is the huge one that being MHC-identical to the somatic cell donor, they would not be rejected by his/her immune system. That makes them MUCH better from a practical standpoint than IVF ES cells, but no different from a moral standpoint by my lights. I have never actully made ES cells, but I think I do in fact know what I am talking about here.
whats next sall? are you still concerned?
Sittenpretty--probably going to call a pastor in his area to make sure he's okay.
Oops,
That last post had a little editing problem. Please disregard the repetitious last sentence.
Sall Im worried about the cat,if in a moment of fear he gives him away,or
For stem cell research the obvious issue is that expedient research is the heart of the issue and the doctor's oath.
Time is the most valuable resource and Bush squanders it.
Time is the most valuable resource and Bush squanders it.
Very true, and he also gives other countries like South Korea a head start over the U.S. It's the same with alternative energy research.
Boy,
You post a new thread around here and everybody just runs for the exits. Sheesh!
Speaking of the Bush spawn, how's that teaching gig going for Jenna? A charter school in DC, wasn't it?
First Twins Employment Rate: 0%
A year of partying after college: priceless.
Send them to Iraq. Or at least to a military academy. Prince Harry's off to Sandhurst...
head now exploding.
The MOAB was done a long time ago, you can already see them in museums: i.e Air Force Armament Museum in Florida. You probably mean the nuclear bunker buster. It is a metaphor for the culture of life AND for the NPT...
If Bush will veto anything that would allow funding of embryonic stem cell research, why is that not sufficient grounds to impeach him?
Digby's post prompted me to say something.
blerb:
The Bushes fancy themselves to be a royal family, a dyansty, appointed by some imaginaary sky buddy to rule.
They get the full Bourbon/Romanov treatment as a result. That means the daughters get it, too.
But the death penalty saves lives.
*thud*
so is bush going to veto defense bills. after all the purpose of military organisations are to destroy innocent life. i guess the busheviks think that life begins at conception and ends at birth.
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