I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
because who wants a slightly used, "born" child?
Ahhhhhhhh, that's so sweet.
I'm sure that all the five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten and so on old EXISTING children whom no one will adopt 'cause they're inconveniently not infants will agree.
Let's all let DHHS know how much we appreciate our tax dollars at work for this.
Do you get a progress report and handwritten letter from "your" embryo every month? 
oh my god.
al franken was goofing on this yesterday, and i thought it was a joke.
Ummmm.... "embryo adoption"? Oh dear.
So is this going to blur the line between "adoptive mother" and "biological mother" into a Heisenbergian Quantum Probabilistic No-Man's Land of What the Fuck, or what?
Truly idiotic.
And my fucking taxes are paying for this?
And my fucking taxes are paying for this?
mer
Are they taxing that now, too?
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
considering all of the cuts made in the social support network, it would be interesting to compare what cuts were made in adoption outreach programs vs funding for this bullshit.
OMG,
How many time does my poor aching head have to explode?
Please help me - I can't tell satire from reality anymore... AAAAAAAAAAGH!! (slams head intio desk) ah now I see...
You can't make fun of what's going on anymore - give it a week and your weirdest right wing fantasy will have become reality.
I recently re read 1984 and it seemed all too real.
Oh my frigging God. I hope this is a joke -- but I suppose it isn't.
If human cloning becomes a reality, does this mean that every cell of every piece of tissue becomes "potential life" and that every cell will have to be found a suitable uterus or kept in perpetual suspension?
Doesn't it mean that? At least can't you befuddle a thumper with the question?
Sorry Echidne, didn't see you posting at the same time I was.
This is just another way to put an end to stem cell research. People have argued that there is nothing wrong with doing stem cell research on unused embryos, since they will end up being destroyed anyway. Now the wingnuts can claim "No they're not, we can find adoptive parents for them".
So whatever happened to the magic of the marketplace?
How many time does my poor aching head have to explode?
I'm considering getting one of those epilepsy helmets, like the girl had in Garden State, to hold my head together or at least control the spatter.
It's because they HAVE NO ANSWER to the concept of donated, unused IVF embryos used in stem-cell research. That's what this is all about. The idea that folks would use the science, have their baby, and then want to help others is beyond the capacity of these dipshits to understand.
How about a sperm adoption program for when guys masturbate? Billions upon billions of sperm die horrible deaths on soiled Kleenex because of the tragic shortage of woman willing to be sperm adoptees.
Frederick,
Do you *really* want a rousing chorus of "Every Sperm is Sacred"?
Now, if we had an advanced civilization (like in Europe, for example) those extra embryos could be donated for stem cell research but, Noooooooooooooooooooooooo! Here in the United States of Dumbfuckistan, while thousands of children languish if foster "care" until they turn 18 (or die a premature death at the hands of some freak foster "parents"), childless couples can have the opportunity to adopt a test tube of cells. Man, there are moments when I feel the End Times can't get here fast enough.
"This is just another way to put an end to stem cell research. People have argued that there is nothing wrong with doing stem cell research on unused embryos, since they will end up being destroyed anyway. Now the wingnuts can claim "No they're not, we can find adoptive parents for them"."
Like I said - at one time I would have thought "nah they can't go that far" but now - middle of next week tops before the spin machine is beating this drum.
After that what? Masturbation becomes a felony? Monthly funeral services for unfertilized eggs? Damn now I did it... (reaches for the scotch bottle) my head hurts!
NYMary,
Hahahahaha. I need one a them things, too.
(DHHS) announces the availability of funds for FY 2005 and requests applications for grants for public awareness campaigns on embryo adoption.
More fucking taxpayer money to fund idiocy. Where's the outrage, indeedy.
"can't you befuddle a thumper with the question?"
I wonder - has anyone ever been able to use logic to confuse a bible thumper?
About the stem cell question, if a fertilized cell is the same thing as a human being, and especially considering the Terri Schiavo stuff, if the cell is kept alive in a cell line or inside a donor hasn't the "life" been kept going? It isn't destroyed in the research or the use. It's the only way to keep them "alive".
Questions that theologians don't consider.
I wonder - has anyone ever been able to use logic to confuse a bible thumper?
Wtlodge40
Plead guilty. I've got the distinction of having the only house on my road the JoHos won't go to anymore. I'm blackballed.
Sorry Echidne, didn't see you posting at the same time I was.
Attaturk
Ask Dr. Atta J. Turk: Dear Dr. Atta, why do you hate the goddess of the snakes? Thank you. Signed, Dr. Bigvic, sykiatrist.
After that what? Masturbation becomes a felony?
Sure, I can see it now. You'll be charged with depraved indifference to potential human life, and receive the death penalty (because we value life so highly, you see).
Jesus the fuck christ.
I am speechless.
This has GOT to be the Onion, right? Right?
After that what? Masturbation becomes a felony?
If they stoned all of the onanists to death it would certainly take care of the population problem.
I can't remember, what did happen to Onan when he "spilled his seed on the ground"?
I wonder - has anyone ever been able to use logic to confuse a bible thumper?
Wtlodge40
Bible Thumpers are absolutely, 100%, logic proof. Guaranteed. Your money back if not satisfied.
These people believe! That's all they do. They don't think. They have been taught not to. Remember, "Reason" is another name for Satan...
Masturbation becomes a felony?
Only human masturbation. Animals are ok.
"Plead guilty. I've got the distinction of having the only house on my road the JoHos won't go to anymore. I'm blackballed."
EPT - You are my hero. I suggest you write a book detailing your greatest hits.
I know I'd buy it. Somehow "fuck off" dosn't say enough.
Oh boy! Lucky me! I can adopt an embryo!!
I'll keep it in my freezer and I will take it out now and then so I can love it and hug it and squeeze it and call it George. . .
Oh, precious, precious embryo!
from juan cole, 5/20. little did he know...:
"A blastocyte is not a human being and it is not a person. It is a blastocyte. It may or may not develop into a human being. Large numbers of fertilized eggs never get attached to the uterine wall and just get flushed down the toilet. Shall we hold a funeral for each of them? The poor deluded fundamentalists who know about this even think they will meet brothers and sisters in heaven that they never knew about. And on such irrational and frankly stupid bases (who told them they were going to heaven?), they want to forbid us to cure Alzheimers, and want to force raped women to give birth to the babies of their rapists. It makes a person want to tear hair out, thinking about it."
women are mainly just breeders
RR
"can't you befuddle a thumper with the question?"
Just ask them to help you with the following:
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.
Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
Please help me - I can't tell satire from reality anymore
Please...I haven't been able to tell the Onion from a real news website, or the Daily Show from a real news program, for several years now...
"Masturbation becomes a felony?"
"Only human masturbation. Animals are ok."
Especially Mules, I bet.
A reporter friend of mine did a story about a woman that had an implant from an adopted embryo. The crazy bitch was going on about how every baby had a right to live. Yes, she was talking embryos.
My reporter friend is adopted. She wasn't too supportive. Felt it was really about the need to experience child birth to feel complete.
Attaturk, no, I posted at the same time as you! And I just said I wasn't going to post! But then I saw this long gap and thought that I should. And so on.
The General will have a hay day with this.
I volunteer to adopt all those little embryos. Maybe I can get some of my tax dollars back.
Oh boy! Lucky me! I can adopt an embryo!!
Maybe they can sell them for five dollars like they used to sell "pagan babies".
My advice would be to read the bible, especially the "historical" books. They are very entertaining and they provide endless material.
I got one JoHo going with asking him about Elisha cursing the boys who were then torn apart by the bears (she bears if I remember correctly). I asked why it was all right for him to use black magic to kill the boys who were only mocking him for being bald. The guy had a thinning hairline so he might have been a bit touchy about the subject.
Monthly funeral services for unfertilized eggs?
Hey, I could get to like people bringing each other casseroles to mark a period.
Having been throught the infertility wars, this is an attractive option for a lot of people.
There are women who just don't feel complete without experiencing a birth.
Me? I was C-section all the way, never needed the experience, just wanted a child with my husband. But, there are women with legitimate understandable needs.
It is easy to tell infertile couples to adopt older children, but until you have been in their shoes, I don't think anyone should criticize their decisions.
Oh Jeez! The Snowflake Loonies. I bloggeed about the Far Right wanting womb space for every frozen bit awhile back.
Can someone tell the OPHS that the "Evening Thread' is beating the hell out of this one? Now, what's more important--Star Wars or embryos?
Vote Now. See Results.
Hey, I could get to like people bringing each other casseroles to mark a period.
NYMary/Lissadell
Throw in mourning sperm and it could be a party every day.
when do they start awarding grants for sperm adoption?
Several folks have mentioned that this is an intentional trick to stop stem cell research, and I tend to agree.
Stem cell research is a personal hobby horse of mine. My grandfather, father, and brother all died of complications of Alzheimers. Maybe stem cell research won't help for that disease, but there are a lot of diseases ravaging families (juvenile diabetes, for example) that clearly WOULD be helped.
I am outraged by this.
Wait a minute. They pay you for this and what's to keep someone from using an IUD to double, triple, etc. dip?
Diane--Alzheimers' is one of the diseases that can most likely be targeted by this therapy. We need better diagnostics as well.
Mer--we do have an awful lot of boys in the crowd...
mer, no thread stays OT for long. They all evolve.
Any of you folks ever tried to have a baby? My wife and I have just gone through IVF and happily are expecting a new arrival in November, our first.
We have learned a lot. Embryo "adoption" is available today, and can be a godsend for couples looking to have kids.
What's the problem? Maybe you can argue whether fed $ should be used for its promotion, but I would not, considering the amount of $ wasted in so many other places.
My two cents...
Can you have an abortion of an adopted embryo if the adopted father/husband/boyfriend dumps you? Can you have an abortion if you find out the embryo you accepted was non-caucasian?
Will there be new laws to protect the unborn adopted embryos?
Our goverment is really depressing me lately.
JJF, considering that they are cutting money to WIC and other programs that keep pregnant women and children from starving and sickness, to pay people to have more children would seem to be rather at cross purposes.
This is not about helping people with fertility problems, it's political, and hypocritical and cynical.
By the way, Digby's posting is very much relevant to this issue.
We have learned a lot. Embryo "adoption" is available today, and can be a godsend for couples looking to have kids.
jjf
Jjf, I have no objection to infertile couples having access to those embryos, far from it.
What I object to is the sudden interest in pushing this the weekend before an important stem cell research bill (that the Resident has promised to veto) comes to a vote in the House.
And for you and your family, Mazeltov!
Will they allow gay couples to adopt the embryos? What a dilemna for Christian fundamentalists--let the embryo die or let it be raised by gays. What will they do?
What's the problem? Maybe you can argue whether fed $ should be used for its promotion, but I would not, considering the amount of $ wasted in so many other places.
Congrats. The problem is when tax money is being used to have folks *adopt* an embryo to *save* it from research purposed when the embryos that are not needed will be destroyed to make room for new ones.
Will they allow gay couples to adopt the embryos? What a dilemna for Christian fundamentalists--let the embryo die or let it be raised by gays. What will they do?
Dave
They let the embryos be destroyed. Some cells in a dish are hardly *human* and the wingnuts detest gay folks, so you have the answer.
Another thought, considering how well Jeb looks after the born children in foster care now isn't it rather outrageous for them to be considering this nonsense?
With the coming laws no same sex couples would be allowed silly goose! ...and lesbians would be given the choice of either becoming an incubater for good christian straight white couples who can't carry to term or being put to work in the colonies.
i wonder if i can adopt 10 or 12 and claim my unborn as dependents on my income tax next year?
My 10 cents' worth: These people only care about the UNBORN life!
Wtlodge40, re masturbation: didn't Antonin Scalia once speak out in favour of outlawing the 'intoxicating rhythms'? And I don't think that was satire!?
'How about a sperm adoption program for when guys masturbate? Billions upon billions of sperm die horrible deaths on soiled Kleenex because of the tragic shortage of women willing to be sperm adoptees.'
Thanks for making me laugh, Frederick!
What a nightmare. Every day there is some new jaw-droppingly bizarre news.
While it is laudable that some couples may be able to become parents though use of these Infintesimal Americans, the ploy here is obvious. It was trumpeted on CNN yesterday during a discussion between Castle, one of the proponents of the latest stem cell bills, and some hyperventilating guy who was so nuclear over the right to life side that he wouldn't even let Castle talk. This guy burbled on about "adopting" these embryos - (AHA) now it becomes clear what his push was about. Hopefully, couples could decide for themselves whether to dispose of the embryos, donate them for science, or to "put them up for adoption" - but I'm sure that the right to lifers would come up with some reason why such a choice "for science" could be invalidated.
Essentially, what this push would do is immediately hobble any steps forward in legalizing stem cell research on new lines here - they can tie it all up in litigation and endless crap regardless of any bill that passes making research easier.
Example - financing in California for the stem cell research bill they passed is already tied up because of lawsuits by the religious right.
Every day that passes I become more determined to just get the hell out of here.
OK, it's ok to freeze the little swimmers and recievers and all them embros, but ya can't kill 'em.
Using that logic, if these embryos are "sentient human beings with all the inalienable rights afforded to everyone" then why don't we just freeze all the unwanted "born" children until Mr. and Mrs. I. M. Christian want to adopt them?
And don't let it stop there...if you have problem children, children from a divorce (can't decide who gets custody), pregnant teens and preteens, why not freeze them until the Religious Right comes up with a solution?
Oh and since some couples may have a few, uh thousand extra embryos, why not sell them? Think of the money the government can get from this. And the best part is that none of the little "people" has to be aborted. Why in just a few short years, we could over populate the rest of the world(but pay for Iraq!)
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