I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
First.... and sad.
Second? And yes.
real men hate bush.
Don't make me cry ~ I just rolled out of bed.
What NYMary said
Apologists keep saying we can't compare Iraq to Vietnam because "only" ~1700 troops have died. When does a quagmire become a quagmire? Can we realize we're in one and get out before it gets worse?
Third. And fuck Bush.
Ok, not third. Fuck Bush anyway.
Ummm. I think Iraq will actually end up being worse than VietNam. In this particular war: everyone hates us. At least the South Vietnamese were not actively working against us.
And we had an army to fight: here we only have people. And there they wanted us there, here they do not. Anyone have anymore?
Ni-ni-ni-nineteen.
Besides, haven't we suffered more casualties than we did at the 2-year point in Nam?
The Strib rules. Except that they give Likeks a regular paycheck. But on the upside they don't print his wingnuttery.
When does a quagmire become a quagmire?
they have to start out as muddy puddles of ooze, right?
er... Lileks.
And there they wanted us there,
Nonsense.
All colonial wars of occupation are the same, only in detail does anything change. Going out of your way, in the face of certain knowledge that empire building and colonisation are not wanted, to mimic antique and ill-understood political theory is simply, insane.
I hope Nixon is fluffing up the pillows for GWB.
My only respite in hell will be seeing him there.
With young soldiers dying in another distant war today, the echoes of 1970 can seem as fresh and as painful as ever.
Ain't it the truth! I never thought we'd repeat Viet Nam in my lifetime. Bullshit, BUSHCO gets all the blame. I wanted nothing to do with this fiasco.
Good morning...what a fucking disaster.
GWPDA, if you say so: it is early here and I always defer . . .
Says his dad: "I didn't think he was in much danger. That was dumb on my part."
It's hard to know what to say to that. I'm sure people thought the troops sent to Iraq would be well-protected because they were obviously part of a superior fighting force, better-trained, better-armed, better led.
Didn't turn out to be the case, did it.
I hate Bush and his warmongering already, but I will personally hold him responsible if anything happens to my cousin's husband (who is currently serving in Iraq as a gunner on a Blackhawk helicopter). Grrrrrrrrr. I hate this.
BTW, I just got back from my vacation in flyover country (Oklahoma City, OK) and let me tell you it was like being in another country. People are rah-rah patriotic, they don't question anything except whatever Democrats have to say. I finally lost my cool and told my uncle (retired Air Force) that I thought Bush was a war criminal and pointed out that we're still fighting the quick, easy war two years later. (I stayed with them during the start of the war 2 years ago.) My father told me that he'd have my hide if my uncle had heart palpitations, but he lived.
We did agree on one thing: the new bankruptcy law is evil.
haven't we suffered more casualties than we did at the 2-year point in Nam?
Depends on when you date the start of Vietnam. I looked at the data last May and decided to consider the first arrival of combat troops in country in '65 as the start, though you could arguably go back to '61.
Fluffy Halifax, do you want the copy of the letter you published in the AZ Republic? I've still got it here.
At least the South Vietnamese were not actively working against us.
ummmm, that's not entirely true. the VC were ALL south Vietnamese 'insurgents.'
Mainly, the folks who really wanted the US there were the satraps and functionaries of whatever Vietnamese regime we had placed in power, and the merchants and whoremasters who profitted handsomely...
US forces were 'invited' into the country by an illegitimate junta placed in power after the plebiscite in the '50s, whichg that showed the people wanted a unified nation, was rejected by Washington (Pres. Eisenhower, btw, lest we forget who actually STARTED the fucking thing)...
just sayin...
The article comes up just fine, Attaturk. Good grief, 10:00 am and it's not to early to cry. I detest these warmongers. Bu$h and company need to be hauled to the Hague in CHAINS!
When does a quagmire become a quagmire?
"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam -– How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a insane clusterfuck of a* mistake?”
*emphasis my own words, but I'm sure you all know who said this.
*emphasis my own words, but I'm sure you all know who said this.
Not a cokewhore draft dodger?
The sheep won’t rebel till they’re shorn.
It’s somebody else’s firstborn.
It can’t happen to me,
They say airily.
Their blindness evokes fucking scorn.
Apologists keep saying we can't compare Iraq to Vietnam because "only" ~1700 troops have died.
Key word is in quotes. Gen. Turgedson in the warroom for 500 Alex.
Answer- What is an asshole.
GWPDA,
in the face of certain knowledge that empire building and colonisation are not wanted, to mimic antique and ill-understood political theory is simply, insane.
And there you have Monkey Boy in a nutshell. Damnit! I wish you could have knocked some history lessons into that moronic skull of his. This situation in the ME was entirely predictable. Actual scholars laid it all out before the invasion and they were 100% correct.
Hey, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed...
And the GOP is so-o-o-o supportive of our troops: go here for a list of the atrocities the soldiers can expect to face when/if they return home.
WGG and GWPDA, yes, what you are saying is true: but at least it had an arguable defense for our presence. This *is* different: we just went in without any support (Other than the vapors in the minds of the neocons) I think that is a legitimate difference.
This was purely a war of agression for a tangible asset. Quite a difference, in the end.
Not off topic at all:
Rep. Conyers is on fire again over at Daily Kos. God, I love him. I wish he were my congressman istead of that Tom DeLay kiss ass Vern Ehlers. Click on the diary, and then click on Conyer's link to sign the petition.
100,000 Signatures Needed on Downing Street Letter
Since Vietnam, how many troops have died fighting? Very few in Gulf War I, which only lasted a few weeks. Any in Grenada? (don't remember, but couldn't have been very many.) Yes, a couple hundred when the marine barracks were bombed in Beirut. Kosovo? Nope, none of our troops died there. In Somalia there were some deaths.
I'd have to look up the numbers to be exact, but there have probably been more military deaths from March 2003 until now, than from 1975 to early 2003.
OH GOODY!! ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THREADS WHERE WE PRETEND WE CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS! I LOVE THOSE THREADS!!
Prayer for the 70s
Norman Corwin
"We print your name on dollars
And are sure you stand over everything we say is under God
And all nations assume you are on their side and always
have been, war in and war out,
And every religion understands you better than every other religion,
and you in turn lean toward each with special inclinations.
You are called upon to bless babies and aircraft carriers
And you are ceremoniously and endlessly praised on the basis that
flattery will get us somewhere.
But there are those who pray as though tendering a bribe payable
on installments
So as to accumulate years in this life and credits in the next.
Some of us make you out a broker who supplieth needs and wants;
Attorney who defendeth against hard claims;
Expunger of guilts who cleareth the conscience so we may be free
to muck it up again;
Housekeeper of the soul who cometh in to clean once a week;
King of accountants auditing our secret selves,
Liquidating our trespasses as we liquidate those who trespass against us,
Keeping batteries of books filled with fateful identifications,
Entering as much the fall of a sparrow as the crash of a plane.
We have heard it said you are not so smart after all, since it is
unlikely you could add as fast as a computer or remember half
so much;
And although you are known to be more than generous in the number and
variety of species, there seems to be little rationale for the
mosquito, and less for plague bacilli.
There have been complaints against you, charges of malfeasance,
Implications of sleeping on the job, trigger temper, pronenesss
to vengeance,
Tantrums of wrath that have consumed too many of the innocent with
too few of the heinous.
Some of your public begrudge you the benefit of doubt, and doubt
your beneficence
Protesting that it was antic of you to have sponsored us to begin
with, if we are to swarm like maggots on a rind too meager to
support our duplicating billions.
Some say the noblest ideas were set down by man
And that you have been served by holy ghost writers beyond your
desserts.
They say that the whole conspicuous distance between the worm and
Einstein, the drone of the bee and Beethoven,
The entire interval, has been filled with struggles trailing blood:
Ages of frightened proto-men, heavy with ignorance, recoiling from
fangs of fire, drowning in profligate floods, perishing in temblors,
staggering into the unknown,
Their wails and brute chants and broken grunts fructifying at last
into songs and sonnets and hallelujahs to your glory.
Well, dissidants suggest that during this grand span you sat it
out; that in the vast meanwhile you went off to fish in deeper
currents.
Lately it is announced that you are dead
Which means several things besides the receiver being off the hook
when we dial you.
It means that time must carry on by itself
And stars pinwheel through incandescent deserts and bottomless voids,
all on an orderly hunch;
It means the arching upward from the mud has been a drunken course,
and purposeless, and hardly worth the trip;
It means the very mansion of existence has no windows, and is just
a big white elephant, boarded up and haunted by your mistakes;
It means that springtime is a come-on and a put-on, and not at all
a show of dogged life, a riot of chlorophyll, a surge of sap and
elixers from wells so deep no radar can ever return to tell what
and where it touched;
It means that the love of man and woman is a table of percentages,
and their desire a disease of the id;
It means that birth is a happening between pills
And old age a phase held together by plastic parts;
It means the heart of a man is replaceable as soon as the donor is legally dead
And death is a package deal with the best advertised mortuary.
So, God: if you are alive in that heaven we have come to know is
spotty with systems of gravity, each pulling for itself,
Then perhaps you must flex the muscle of divine authority to get
back into office
Because your antique miracles have been trumped by solemn science;
Daily the patent office registers intenser magic than the burning bush:
The serpent from the rod becomes a ruby laser;
The leper is healed by mycins;
The blind draw vision from an eye bank.
That being the case, dear busy God, please manifest thyself again
through one superlative, new-minted covenant:
Create for the lot of us -- all nations indivisible -- an Act of God
more stupendous than mere parting waters or a standing sun
A miracle harder to come by, that would, if consummated, cause dry
bones from all the hundred holocausts to meet and dance,
And charter stars to sing together in the brightest chancel of
imponderable space.
And this is what that miracle would be:
That man should love his kind in all his skins and pigments,
And kill no more.
Repeat:
That we should love our kind
And kill no more.
Yes, granted, such a miracle is asking very much of you
But it is long past time to ask."
Any news on the fleet actions of yesterday? F-117As heading for the Middle East was the last I heard. Of course we would never know what is actually going on in the warroom, thats a secret(shh). I wonder what outfits they wear?
This was purely a war of agression for a tangible asset.
I used to think it was waged for the oil and to establish a military presence there.
Now I believe it truly was for one reason only: oil.
Nah, FreeRepublic + Little Goat Fuckers would be the place where crocodile tears are shed daily over the troops.
Iraq was about oil and Afghanistan was about smack.
Nah, FreeRepublic + Little Goat Fuckers would be the place where crocodile tears are shed daily over the troops.
BlakNo1
--------------
OH NO, WE DO IT ALL THE TIME!! WE LOVE IT WHEN THOSE BABYKILLERS DIE. IT GIVE US SOMETHING TO PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT, AND IT MEANS ANOTHER FASCIST IS DEAD IN THE GROUND!! YAHOO!!!
I picture Condi in a kind of Rollerball outfit. Second hand and little big for her. Cheney, hmm..need to think for a bit on that one
Good morning, all.
That was beautiful, GWPDA.
I also bring something to uplift your spirits, Howard Zinn's recent commencement address at Spelman College.
Against Discouragement
OH GOODY!! ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THREADS WHERE WE PRETEND WE CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS!
...said the moronic brownshirt fuck who refuses to enlist.
Yep, cowards, every last one of the goatfuckers, cowards.
"Eschatonian" ...
Enlisted yet?
Meanwhile, be sure to tune into our next episode, kids: Bush Lies, Soldiers Die, or You Can't Spell "Qwagmire" Without "Dubya"!
Project much, Eschatonian?
This was purely a war of agression for a tangible asset. Quite a difference, in the end.
DWD
Yep. And there was no match for the incompetence of Rummy. Remember his 10-30-30 projection? Ten days to "liberate" Baghdad, 30 days to liberate the rest of the country and 30 to install Democracy. What an arrogant fucking lunatic.
Re: Republican Coingate
Even the state's highest court has been touched by the case. When a series of lawsuits seeking an inventory of Mr. Noe's coin investments was brought before the Ohio Supreme Court recently, five of seven justices recused themselves. All had received campaign contributions from Mr. Noe.
You can't trust Republicans with your money!
WOO HOO!! WE CAN ALSO USE THAT "ENLIST YET?" CANARD TO SUBSTITUTE FOR HAVING AN ACTUAL ARGUMENT!! IT MAKES US FEEL SO...SO...RIGHTEOUS!! JUST LIKE WHEN WE SPIT ON SOLDIERS GRAVES WHEN NOBODY IS LOOKING!!
Minn. Democratic State Senator Becky Lourey's son died in Iraq.... Much sadness in Minn today...another front story in Star Tribune.
The photo is fading? This gives me an idea. I suck at painting, but it seems that some enterprising artist could render some of these faded photographs on canvas for a reasonable fee, thus keeping these people's memories alive for centuries. No doubt the picture this article was talking about was printed using the prevailing technology, which wasn't all that good. Most snapshots I've seen from the 60's and 70's are faded nearly to the point of being unrecognizable. It's a shame.
When The War Started
most folks put the start of major operations in Nam after the alleged attacks on US destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin. That was early August of '64. It was then that the big build-up began.
acording to one site, LINK, almost as many GIs were killed in the first 26 months of the Iraq Conquest as were killed in Nam beginning in 1960 with the first US combat fatalities and through 1965...
Bush is a much more efficient, better killer of his fellow countryfellows...the fucking mutherfocker: i wanna see his head on a fucking pike...
.
WOO HOO!! WE CAN ALSO USE THAT "ENLIST YET?" CA--
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
...
That is, the prevailing technology for COLOR prints.
I think that I shall never sea
A troll with a brain larger than a pea.
OH GOODY!! ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THREADS WHERE WE PRETEND WE CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS! I LOVE THOSE THREADS!!
Oh boy, another troll who pretends (or even worse, thinks) they are "supporting the troops" by supporting Bush and his idiotic, elective war that has killed over 1,700 American troops and counting.
I think that I shall never sea
A troll with a brain larger than a pea.
For "brain" substitute "dick" and I think you've got something!
"Eshatonian" ...
Enlisted yet?
If not, why not?
In other words, you're a fucking coward.
Thanks for the note, Attaturk. I've added the paper to my favs...
In other words, you're a fucking coward.
Now, now... be nice to Jonah! His mommy might breathe on you...
wrt the number of war dead: I don't quite understand why everyone (i.e. the press, the talking heads, ...us...) keep using the 1600 to 1700 number for US dead in this war. The soldiers who live just long enough to be shipped to Germany and then die there number something like three times that. It has been reported that the lower number is just those that are pronounced dead while in Iraq. Now I wouldn't countanance pumping up the number with deaths by other causes that are just in some temporal proximity (traffic accidents on leave, that sort of thing) but wounded who expire in Germany or even Walter Reed -- I just think those should be logicaly included.
Karin,
Excellent link! Thanks.
The lesson of that history is that you must not despair, that if you are right, and you persist, things will change. The government may try to deceive the people, and the newspapers and television may do the same, but the truth has a way of coming out.
I believe this with every fiber of my being. It's only a matter of time. Back in the 60's and 70's it looked like the country was being blown apart but real progress was made, until Raygun. Now Bu$h has ripped up the Constitution and must be stopped.
His mommy might breathe on you...
It's okay, I'm wearing a gas mask.
Said troll is probably in the business of making money off of those stupid and disgusting "Support our Troops" car magnets.
With all of the evidence out there that Bush took our soldiers to a war based on lies, said troll either has huge mote in his eye, is completely without reason or intellect, or is profiting from the loss of our soldiers.
DEATH TO ALL THOSE FASCIST, BABYKILLING FUCKS TRYING TO OPPRESS OUR ARAB FRIENDS!! THEY ARE JUST GOONS FOR THE MAN!!
NO BLOOD FOR OIL!! NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!
The Troll/RW Creed:
"Support the Troops: Send them to their deaths for no good reason."
Eschatonian
Unlike you, I'm a veteran [1964-68].
I knew men who were killed in Nam, and served there myself, briefly.
If you wish to impugn my concern for the safety of the troops, I invite you to do so in person. Please, do do in person. Please. Come to Albuquerque, and make your case to me personally.
You'll then forgive me when i rip off your fucking head and shit down your throat...
have a nice day, shitwit...
.
Now I believe it truly was for one reason only: oil.
++++++++++++++++++
And to attain the oil we needed a presence in the ME. We invaded Iraq precisely because we knew there were no WMD and knew we could. After all, they were the country where there had been sanctions in place for ten years and the weapons inspectors could not find any weapons. It's the oil. And it makes me sick.
Keep shouting, coward...
Co-sponsor a licensed public showing; call 413-773-7427.
Order video on-line for private, home use. http://www.traprockpeace.org
_______________________
"The Doctor, the Depleted Uranium and the Dying Children"
by Freider Wagner and Valentin Thurn
This award-winning, 54-minute, German Public television documentary
exposes uranium contamination on the streets of Baghdad. It documents
the use and health effects of uranium weapons in Gulf Wars
I and II.
Filmmakers followed on-the-scene investigations in Iraq by
Dr. Siegwart Horst-Gunther, the German physician who first brought out
hard evidence of the US use of so-called 'depleted' uranium (DU) weapons
during the Gulf War.
Filmmakers also interviewed the
German researcher Axel Gerdes, **who found DU contamination in the New
York reservists** tested by the NY Daily News, as reported in April and
September, 2004.
____________
NOT FUN but incidents of leukemia in Iraqi children at epidemic proportions. Worth checking out, our soldiers contaminated too.
Perhaps you should go OD on some of that tasty, tasty smack our soldiers died to liberate, fucking coward.
"Eschatonian" ...
"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
Two things the troll will never know anything about:
Valor
Shakespeare
Enlist now, Pussy!
Please don't feed the chickenshit trolls. I loves to watch them die, writhing in inattention. My drill sgt taught me to bayonet them and save a round, and the same principle applies.
OH YEAH!! SOME OF US PRETEND TO BE VETERANS TOO!! I WAS A GENERAL IN VIETNAM AND PERSONALLY KILLED 300 GOOKS AND BURNED DOWN 40 VILLAGES BEFORE I LEARNED TO LOVE MY FELLOW MAN AND EXPOSE MY COMPATRIOTS FOR THE BABYKILLING SCUM THEY ARE...OH WAIT, I CAN'T SAY THAT NOWADAYS...I MEAN HONOR MY "BROTHERS".
OT-
In today's NYT Bolton article (the one in which they suck up to McCain) they note that TWO repukes will vote no on Bolton. Voino is one, who is the second? Specter? Collins?
Powerful article. Just a reminder that "Bugmenot.com" allows you to bypass nearly all registration for free...There really should be a link to it somewhere on this page, doncha think?
troll-kabobs?
Freedom's just another word for dodging tough questions
May 27, 2005
BY DEBRA PICKETT SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST
The news from Washington is like a bad Broadway show, the kind that promises to make you laugh and cry and be better than "Cats."
The comedy came first. On Monday, President Bush stood beside Afghan President Hamid Karzai for a "Joint Press Availability."
Asked if the Iraqi insurgency was getting more difficult to defeat militarily, Bush answered with a classic Dubya-ism.
"No, I don't think so," he said, "I think they're being defeated. And that's why they continue to fight."
It's the sort of answer that makes you pause and scratch your head for just long enough to give him a chance to change the subject. He's quite masterful at doing this, which made me wonder if he hadn't taken Karzai aside before the press conference and whispered in his ear, "Listen, Hammie, these reporters are tricky. You better let me handle 'em. I've got 'em wrapped around my finger with this whole newspeak war-is-peace idea Karl found in some book from the 1980s."
But Bush's Orwellian logic -- good for only a cynical chuckle -- was definitely not the comic high point of the afternoon. Instead, for sheer free press-thwarting brilliance, Karzai easily won the day.
After the two men made some opening remarks, talking about the glories of bringing democracy to Afghanistan, Bush announced, "And in the spirit of the free press, we'll answer a couple of questions."
Afghanistan's 'free' press
The first question dealt with the military's treatment of Afghan prisoners of war. It was full of facts and details and built-in follow-ups, so you could tell the reporter asking it would probably never get called on again. And, after this rocky start, Bush decided to let the American reporters cool their heels for a while.
"Somebody from the Afghan press?" he asked next.
There was an awkward silence, which Karzai gamely tried to fill in by asking, "Anybody from the Afghan press? Do we have an Afghan press?"
Then he spotted the single reporter his government had permitted to travel outside Afghanistan.
"Oh, here he is," Karzai said, as the room filled with the not-quite-warm laughter of people who suspect they might actually be the butt of a joke but aren't sure.
It turned out, National Public Radio journalist David Greene reported later, there were nine other Afghan reporters who were to have followed Karzai on his U.S. visit but, at the last minute, the Karzai government decided to withhold their travel permits for fear the journalists might try to escape their troubled homeland.
Bush seemed genuinely surprised that the Afghan reporters weren't there -- American journalists had been asked to fill in their empty seats -- so it seems that Karzai forgot to mention to his good friend that the whole free press thing has a slightly different meaning in the burgeoning democracy that is Afghanistan.
I imagine they had a pretty good laugh about that one.
And I bet Bush was jealous.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/p...-
pickett27.html
Oorah!
-
puss puss puss....
"Eschatonian" ...
You die a little every day, don't you, coward?
Save yourself from dying a pathetic coward: Enlist now!
We all have a schroll key, let's put it to good use. Keeps the thread more tidy.
Just as the "Moral Majority" was neither, "Eschatonian" is not.
No more need be said on the subject. Except that this thread is about honoring the dead. Which is not done through irony.
Effing haloscan ate my post.
Attaturk et al.-- The stories from Minnesota get worse and worse. The helicpoter that went down earlier this week both pilots killed, one was the sone of a MN state senator who has been a vocal opponent of the war since the beginning.
Fucking tragic.
I'll get the link. Minnesota has now lost 22 of its citizens to the war based on a lie.
The father in that story is obviously a proponent of the Bush War of Aggression.
He was obviously wrong about his son ("I didn't think he was in much danger") and he will eventually come to realize that this present war, based on a pack of lies, and all the fresh blood and all the newly dead and all the fresh grief, is on his shoulders as well, and he bears responsibility, along with his President, for the war crimes that are, right now, being committed with his support and in his name.
-
Golly, Saturday morning and I have nothing to do. I know, I'll go harass some people. That's an upstanding, American way to kill some time.
bush was probably jealous because the afghan press consisted of one reporter. think how much easier it would be for him to manage the news if he only had to deal with one reporter. the hard part would be picking one; there are so many suckups.
The wingers are so unconcerned
‘Cause their stinking asses ain’t burned.
Their cowardly cheers
Hide their pants-shitting fears.
Their phony “pride” surely ain’t earned.
WHEN I WAS IN THE WAR I EARNED SO MANY MEDALS I HAD TO PUSH THEM AROUND IN A WHEELBARROW. SO I THREW THEM OVER THE WHITE HOUSE FENCE!! WELL, I ACTUALLY THREW A BUNCH OF OTHER GUYS MEDALS. BUT IT WAS MY WHEELBARROW I THREW THEM IN!!
Here's the link to the diary over at Kos.
This weekend of all weekends, they should move this diary to the front page. Go and recommend, and no, I don't know the writer of the diary.
There is another article in this morning's Star Tribune about another kid killed in Iraq.
This one is about Matthew Lourey, son of Becky Lourey, was one of two U.S. soldiers killed when their helicopter was shot down and crashed in central Iraq, the military said Friday.
Becky Lourey is a State Senator from Minnesota.
and yes, she is a Democrat.
Attaturk et al,
Jim Boyd is the editor of the newspaper you linked to in this post. He is a very good editor, very fair, and utterly uncorruptable.
Unfortunately, he is also in the minority of editors who still retain their common sense and don't but this fair and balanced shit and instead, opts for writing and publishing the truth.
NOTHING LIKE A ROUSING SPELL OF CROCODILE TEARS TO START THE MORNING RIGHT!!
Don't buy, that should have been...not fully caffienated.
From that Kos diary:
Co-authored by Sen. Betsy Wergin, R-Princeton, the resolution stated the "Senate pledges its support to and confidence in the United States of America and its President," among other things.
Sen. Becky Lourey, DFL-Kerrick, offered an amendment to strike three words -- including the word "president" -- from the resolution.
A-fucking-men.
Wow. The armchair patriots are freaking out. They must be watching all their local Memorial Day commemorations and feeling guilty that they're sitting on their fat asses instead of fighting for their country.
Now, I'm sure the Resident will find time to go to Arlington National Cemetary to commemmorate Memorial Day on Monday, but it may take a little extra satellite navigation.
See, he doesn't get to that cemetary very often. Just on Memorial Day. He doesn't go to any funerals for soldiers who died in action on his watch, so he's not too familiar with that part of Virginia.
I love Zinn, and continue to be amazed at his positive attitude. His "Peoples History" threw me into a serious funk after finishing it.
Something about the realization that not much has changed since the days of the code of Hammurabi.
However it has been brought to my attention that Lindsay Lohan is too thin, Sharon Stone has a new Baby and Oprah threw a party.
woohoo.
AND THEN THERE WAS THAT TIME I WAS AT THAT PROTEST AND SPITTING ON RETURNING SOLDIERS FROM VIETNAM...OH WAIT, WE DECIDED THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN NOW!! SO ANYWAYS, I WAS AT THAT PROTEST BUT CHEERING THE BABYKILLERS COMING HOME AND I GOT JANE FONDA'S AUTOGRAPH, SO I GAVE HER SOME OF MY MEDALS!! IT WAS REALLY GROOVY!!
Also from that great article by Debra Pickett:
"I know some of my friends say, 'Let it go, George. It's going to work out,' " Voinovich said. "I don't want to take the risk. I came back here and ran for a second term because I'm worried about my kids and my grandchildren."
It was also clear that Voinovich was worried for his political life. Conservative groups are already running ads against him, and Bush allies have been busily trashing him to anyone who'll listen.
Listening to Voinovich's desperately cracking voice was utterly heartbreaking. And so was this line, written by Cleveland Plain Dealer reporter Sabrina Eaton after the close of the senator's speech: "With that, Voinovich returned to his seat and fidgeted with a yellow highlighting pen until he regained his composure."
...
I think we heard the Bush administration in full voice this week, laughing at those who ask questions, wringing tears from those who would dare dissent.
If it were a Broadway show, you could buy a ticket, watch the show and then walk out into the open air. But this is our real life, and there are not even fire exits.
There's plenty of blame to go around, not just the administration that sends troops to die in a useless war, but their families who swallowed the lies hook, line and sinker, because thinking for themselves is just too difficult.
Here's what bugs the crap out of me about the coverage of the Iraq FUBAR: The media constantly interview current and former military brass for their "expert advise" on how the "war" is going. What a waste. These guys are pro military industrial complex robots and never tell the truth about the situation. Why the fuck don't they put Juan Cole on or interview Middle East scholars if they were actually interested in reporting and getting at the truth?
Morning, Moonbats. It's sad to think of all the young people, both American and Iraqi, lost to this senseless war. What did Iraq ever do to us?
AND THERE WAS THAT TIME I WAS FLOATING MY BOAT DOWN THE MEKONG AND I WAS HIGH ON DRUGS AND HAD THIS REALLY HOT GOOK PROSTITUTE AND LIFE WAS REALLY GOOD. SO I BURNED DOWN A VILLAGE TO IMPRESS THE WHORE, AND KILLED 50 VIETCONG WITH MY BARE HANDS, AND SMOKED 2 WHOLE POUNDS OF POT WHILE DOING IT!!! THEN I CAME HOME AND BECAME A HIPPY BECAUSE I WAS ALL ENLIGHTENED AND STUFF!! IT WAS REALLY COOL!
I thought this link might be OT, but it's not really:
http://www.collegedowntime.com/
m...wninafghanistan
this is a video of what our proxies do in Afghanistan, and what is aired on TV in other countries. Great. Just fucking great. Of course, everyone seems to be salivating over it as if it's a good thing it happens. innocent until proven guilty, indeed.
Good morning. I think of Iraq in terms of Vietnam, but raised several powers. We appear to be intent on destroying the ME, hoping to rebuild it in our image. It will never work.
If it were a Broadway show, you could buy a ticket, watch the show and then walk out into the open air. But this is our real life, and there are not even fire exits.
QuentinCompson
If it were a broadway show, it would be Richard III starring Tommy Smothers.
No offense to Tommy Smothers, who is a brilliant comedian, but, at least with Tommy - it's an act.
What did Iraq ever do to us?
Um, duh! They had WMD!
/smacks self/
Oh yeah: they didn't.
I think of Iraq in terms of Vietnam, but raised several powers.
----------
Wow, you are really stupid.
Morning, Moonbats. It's sad to think of all the young people, both American and Iraqi, lost to this senseless war. What did Iraq ever do to us?
Hecate
It is, after all, the weekend of Memorial Day.
And with that shameless blogwhore, I wish you all a good weekend.
What did Iraq ever do to us?
Well, there was that whole Cradle of Civilisation thing. And you -know- what that lead to.
No one cares what you think, Avestus.
No one.
And stop childishly typing in caps. Are old are you anyway? Little boy.
i for one, actually spit on soldiers. i don't wait for them to die to do it. i go to iraq to do it. i also piss on the local population if i can. it makes me feel better. when i get home (i go every weekend), i burn effigies of christ on my front lawn, and i make sure that the flag is wrapped up in there. because the two are inextricably linked. god and america. the two things i hate more in the world. i truly lament the fact that china hasn't taken us over by now. i also want the economy to keep tanking, because that way the downfall of my country will be complete. yeah. cuz i hate america. hate it with a seething passion.
seriously, though. how the fuck do you dream that shit up? why are you stuck in vietnam? i can't even comprehend your imagination. it's fascinating. by the way, why do you use all caps? it's retarded.
Actually Vietnam started in the 50's under DDE. We had a lot of "peacekeepers" working out of Laos during that time. My late husband went into the Navy in mid 1961 and spent 6 years in and around Vietnam, with breaks for time in Japan, Phillipines, etc. until he got out during the Nixon pullout. He did time in DaNang & Quaviet on land & was also ship based. He was a cook, therefore not considered "combat" and could serve multiple tours. His first tour of Vietnam was in 1962. Some day history will actually decide when it really started, but don't hold your breath. Also, even though South Vietnamese worked in the kitchen areas, they were not all that friendly and would set traps for soldiers. He said their favorite was grenades in the latrines. Seems a shame many deaths were caused just because the soldiers had to use the latrine. It got to the point where guards were assigned specifically to do "latrine guard duty".
I found a pic. that fits right in with this.
It's at my home page album.
For the third straight day a different arm of the military has found another officer NOT GUILTY in the death of an Iraqi prisoner in their custody. Whitewash afer whitwash. This time it was a navy officer. Nobody gives a shit about all the dead prisoners who are tortured to death. There's going to be hell to pay when our soldiers start getting captured.
you know, it's kind of funny. this troll is obviously obsessed by what he sees as John Kerry's lies. but why not focus your lie-detesting rage at someone who is relevant? like Bush? but to do that would require him to be un-hypocrical, and we all know there isnt a christo-fascist out there that isn't un-hypopcritical.
Hey, if any of you Liberal Elitists are in NYC any time soon, I highly recommend "Doubt" at the Walter Kerr. It's ostensibly about a nun who suspects a priest of sexually abusing a student, but it's really about the perils of certainty.
And check out "Thom Pain: Based on Nothing" if you're here, too.
Ah, the serial killer reveals itself at last!
Have you banged that crackwhore yet?
I have posted this Amichai poem here before. I post it again today because my son returned safely recently from a tour in al Anbar's Wild Wild West, but a close friend of his was killed there, leaving wife and kids behind. And also for my father's captain who fought beside him in the Battle of the Bulge and was killed there, and of whom to this day my father, a very tough old bird, cannot speak without tearing up.
A Poem That I Wrote In A High Fever
You who are lengthening your lives
with the best doctors and the best medicines
remember those who are shortening their lives
with the wars
that you in your long lives are not
preventing.
You who are again screwing
the younger generations
and winking at each other
the winking of your eyelids
is like the chill of the swinging shutters
in an empty house.
-- Yehuda Amichai
-
Maybe this year Rumsfeld and Bush won't treat the Memorial Day ceremonies at Arlington as a campaign rally like last year. Screaming and cheering at a cemetary is wrong. Just wrong.
Kent, if you are interested in Howard Zinn, there's a podcast with him at my place.
Just click on podcasts under listen on the front page.
Things are going so well in Bushworld that we can just close down some embassies. Nope, don't need them anymore.
Four days after thousands of Indonesian Muslims protested the alleged U.S. desecration of Islam's Holy Quran, the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta has closed until further notice, the State Department has said.
Meanwhile, back in the Americas:
The U.S. Department of State issued a Travel Warning for Haiti on 26 May 2005. The statement reads as follows: "This Travel Warning is being issued to warn American citizens of the continued dangers of travel to Haiti. Due to the volatile security situation, the Department has ordered the departure of non-emergency personnel and all family members of U.S. Embassy personnel.
AND THEN THERE WAS THAT TIME MY SQUAD WAS FIGHTING IN THE TET OFFENSIVE AND SOME GOOK THREW A GRENADE AT US AND THE GUYS THOUGHT WE WERE ALL GONNA DIE, BUT I GRABBED THE GRENADE AND ATE IT, AND FARTED SHAPNEL BACK AT THE ENEMY AND WON THE BATTLE, AND THEN WENT BACK TO SAIGON AND HAD 10 WHORES TO CELEBRATE! THEN I CAME BACK TO THE STATES AND TURNED IN MY UNIFORM FOR PAISLEYS AND GOT COOL AND STUFF, AND LEARNED THE EVIL OF MY WAYS AND SPIT THE WORLDS BIGGEST LOOGY ON THOSE BABYKILLERS WHO CAME HOME AFTER ME!!
For the third straight day a different arm of the military has found another officer NOT GUILTY in the death of an Iraqi prisoner in their custody. Whitewash afer whitwash. This time it was a navy officer. Nobody gives a shit about all the dead prisoners who are tortured to death. There's going to be hell to pay when our soldiers start getting captured.
no. no. no. repeat after me. we don't torture people. we just don't. the president's spokesperson says so. so we don't. thus, we should not be surprised at the acquittal, because obviously nothing happened. nothing happens in bush's america, because he says it is all great. get it through your skull! i love the president. he is infallible. he never tells lies. we don't do bad things. ever. and anyone who disagrees, should be tortured just like those brown fucks at gitmo and abu ghraib.
OH GOODY!! ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THREADS WHERE WE PRETEND WE CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS!
fool
Shit, Quentin. Now I'm crying. Just, shit. My dad, dead two years this month, fought in the Pacific. He joined the Navy just after graduating from high school. He hated war with a passion.
pat tillman's father has a lte in the washpost today. a must read.
i don't know how to supply a link.
"There's going to be hell to pay when our soldiers start getting captured."
Think McLeader will start invoking the 4th Geneva Convention? It'd be rich.
Wonder if there's a market for rare Vietnam medals?
From the Columbus Dispatch (won't bother to link, paid subscription only)
Ohio Gov. Taft claims he knew nothing of the rare coins deal until the Toledo Blade story came out on April 3rd.
He then denied ever seeing the memo that ex-WBC administrator James Conrad sent him on March 18th warning that the story was likely to surface soon.
Says Sen. Marc Dann (D-Youngstown): "Either he's incompetant or he's a liar."
Text of Tillman's father's letter to the WaPO:
I'd like to offer a few clarifications to the May 23 front-page story "Tillman's Parents Are Critical of Army; Family Questions Reversal on Cause of Ranger's Death."
First, the word "critical" in the headline is an understatement.
Second, I characterized the second and third investigations as "shams." The first one -- a homicide investigation -- may have been accurate, but the results were changed by superiors after the investigating officer refused to alter them. I did not say the Army "botched" the investigation. I said it deliberately falsified baseline facts, -- e.g., distance, light conditions, details perceived before and while firing, and the identification of "friendlies."
The story said my son was "killed in a barrage of gunfire." Actually, there were three barrages: one from 78 yards and two from 60 yards. Pat survived a machine gun burst to the torso from the second barrage, but not the third.
The story also said the "soldiers in Afghanistan knew almost immediately that they had killed [Pat]." Approximately 14 soldiers witnessed the shooting.
Staff writer Josh White reported that soldiers burned my son's uniform and body armor, but he did not report that all physical evidence was destroyed on instructions from superiors.
The Army reported that information "was slow to make it back to the United States." To the contrary, the information was sent almost immediately, but there was one set of "facts" for the military and another for my family.
As to the military's claim that it kept the family informed, I was briefed three times with a sales pitch of made-up "facts" and assurances of investigative integrity.
With respect to the Army's reference to "mistakes in reporting the circumstances of [my son's] death": those "mistakes" were deliberate, calculated, ordered (repeatedly) and disgraceful -- conduct well beneath the standard to which every soldier in the field is held.
I have absolute respect and admiration for Army Rangers acting as such. As to their superior officers, the West Point-Army honor code is: "I will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tolerate those that do." They should reissue the booklet.
PAT TILLMAN SR.
San Jose
I work with a dittohead that always writes his memos or documents in caps. The reason became apparent when he didn't once. He doesn't know when capitalization is appropriate.
He hated war with a passion.
The scum who troll here pale in comparison with a true American like your father. I will think of him on the 30th.
There is no way that the figure of ~1.89 US deaths per day will remain constant. Projections are that it will rise to +2 each day. Consider what has to happen in order for that figure to rise. And that's not even counting the deaths of Iraqis. The figures for that are in the realm of genocide.
"I think they're being defeated. And that's why they continue to fight."
Lord... hey my diet must be working cause I can't see my feet.
Question - I'd check myself but you can't make me, and I am running low on scotch - do leftists go to righie blogs and troll like that idiot? And why do they ALL say the same three or four things?
Do these trolls get how much of the blame they share for this mess? (no - facts counter to their ideology mean nothing) Can they say anything besides some version of "AMERICA - FUCK YEAH!" (No)
According to them I'm going to hell - see you there, I suppose. It's ok - if they're going to be there i don't want to go anyway.
AND THEN THERE WAS THAT TIME MY SQUAD WAS FIGHTING IN THE TET OFFENSIVE AND SOME GOOK THREW A GRENADE AT US AND THE GUYS THOUGHT WE WERE ALL GONNA DIE, BUT I GRABBED THE GRENADE AND ATE IT, AND FARTED SHAPNEL BACK AT THE ENEMY AND WON THE BATTLE, AND THEN WENT BACK TO SAIGON AND HAD 10 WHORES TO CELEBRATE! THEN I CAME BACK TO THE STATES AND TURNED IN MY UNIFORM FOR PAISLEYS AND GOT COOL AND STUFF, AND LEARNED THE EVIL OF MY WAYS AND SPIT THE WORLDS BIGGEST LOOGY ON THOSE BABYKILLERS WHO CAME HOME AFTER ME!!
this is fun. let me try. *ahem*
AND I'M THE BIGEST HERRO THE JESUS STATES OF AMERICA HAS EVR CREETED. ONCE THERE WAS A BROWNSKIN FUCIKER WALKING DOWN THE STREET TAKING PICTERS. I NEW HE WUZ A TERRIST SO I KICKED HIS ASS. AS I WUZ BEETING HIOM HE DROPED HIS STOOPUD KORRIN AND THATS WEN I NEW HE DID THE RIGHT THING CUZ ONLY THE BIBLE NEEDS TO BE READ. SO I TERNED HIM IN TO THE FBI AND THEY TOOK HIM TO GITMO AND TORTURED HIM SO HARD HIS RECTUM BLED!!! HAHAHA! I FELT SO FUILL OF PRIDE AT BEING ONE OF JESUS'S COMMANDOS THAT I STARTED HANGING AROUND NEER THE MOSK AND NOW I AM ONE OF THE BIGEST PERVIDERS OF PRISONERS. I THINK I WILL START TAKING OUT LEFTY FUCKERS NEXT. I WILL HANG OUT NEER COFFFEEESHOPS AND START HITTING PEOPLE WITH LONG HAIR CUZ IF JESUS DIDNT NEED LONG HAIR SO SHOULDNT AMERICANS. THEY NEED TO SHAVE THEIR HEADS LIKE I SHAVED MINE.
this is very fun!! i can make up reality too!
Hecate--my father in law was in the Pacific theatre during WWII (Guadalcanal). He, too, hated the war, and forever after, was very critical of the actions of those that sent our citizens to bleed and die.
I'm sorry for the parents. Do they still believe the war was necessary? It's hard for me to know how to judge Republicans these days , because I think they have to be dishonest, if only with themselves, to continue to support Bush's policies in general and the Iraq war in particular. I have to deal with repubs regularly (even some of my relatives are repubs)and they are, outside politics, as reasonable as most folks. Some of them even have grave doubts about Bush--but they are still hooked on the ideology, and if Bush choked on a pretzel tomorrow, it would only reduce their cognitive dissonance. They aren't going to start questioning their assumptions.
GWPDA is absolutely right!
There might be a few deluded "liberal hawks" around who thought our invasion of Iraq was a liberation, but everyone else has always seen at as American imperialism (including those who engineered it)
Was it Steve Gilliard who pointed out that in WWII the sight of an American helmet was a sign of liberation (insert all the caveats)? -- basically people knew that we were not showing up to replace Japanese or German occupation with American colonialism (insert more caveats) -- essentially this was true -- not any more -- Bush has made us the most hated & feared nation on the planet (& rightly so)
"do leftists go to righie blogs and troll like that idiot?"
No, because you'd be banned instantly. And there is the filthy feeling one gets afterwards.
Analysts Behind Iraq Intelligence Were Rewarded
By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 28, 2005
Two Army analysts whose work has been cited as part of a key intelligence failure on Iraq -- the claim that aluminum tubes sought by the Baghdad government were most likely meant for a nuclear weapons program rather than for rockets -- have received job performance awards in each of the past three years, officials said.
A-tennn-HUT!
Pat Tillman, Sr. - SALUTE!
Why would I want to troll right-wing blogs? What possible satisfaction would I get out of it?
No, because you'd be banned instantly. And there is the filthy feeling one gets afterwards.
there was some kind of link i found a week or two ago from one of the people at powerline. he said it was absolutely essential that people be forced to register to comment so that you can control the message. in truth, that's part of the reason why i don't go to dKos. I don't agree with moderating comments. either don't allow comments or accept the inevitable. ah well. funny thing, though. i am logged in as Kos at the LAtimes website by using BugMeNot.
Why would I want to troll right-wing blogs? What possible satisfaction would I get out of it?
That really depends on how enamoured you are with hot gas.
I think someone was wondering earlier about the numbers of wounded US soldiers, in addition to those killed. (We don't count the hundreds of thousands of dead, wounded and orphaned civilians, of course.) Here are some numbers I received this morning:
1,653 soldiers have died in the past 26 months in Iraq.
Another 12,348 have been maimed, and tens of thousands are suffering from PTSD.
And things are only getting worse, not better: the majority of those killed (903) died in the 12 short months since Memorial Day 2004.
And things are only getting worse, not better: the majority of those killed (903) died in the 12 short months since Memorial Day 2004.
hey, only 50,000 died in vietnam, and that was a perfectly honorable war where nothing bad ever happened.
seriously, though, i tend to agree that it will get worse before it gets better. i mean, if you still can't drive to the airport safely, how long will it take before there is this so-called stability we're there for? cuz, remember, it wasn't the WMDs. it was the freedom.
*barf*
"Why would I want to troll right-wing blogs? What possible satisfaction would I get out of it?"
What do THEY get out of it? Something, cause they do it all the time. What baffles me is having once had my own personal troll- the word choices, the attitudes and the arguments were all the same as I see here. I mean, I used to understand why someone would be a republican back in the day (1970 - 1985 or so)but I do NOT get this neocon stuff. How is it possible to send the troops off without armor to die and call THAT supporting the troops? Without having diminished mental capacity that is and I am not being sarcastic. Are they nuts?
"there is the filthy feeling one gets afterwards."
Yep - which is why I can't do it - won't do it. I read the freeper board once and it mande me depressed for humanity.
we don't do bad things. ever. and anyone who disagrees, should be tortured just like those brown fucks at gitmo and abu ghraib.
PoppieProng
Very good imitation of the Fux News crowd. Heh. You could be rich!
genoasail
I will check it out, thanks.
The composure maintained by Tillmans father in the lte is astonishing.
I feel as though I have absorbed a blow to the solar plexus by a battering ram of propaganda, and the morning started out so favorably.
trip to the store to secure some fine bacon, awe inspiring sky, a return trip for some pictures, and then the sucker punch.
Time to work on the milling attachment and think about incognito's plantation on the bayou, Arthur and his Yellow Ball, Trout, and all of the fine people that hang out in this room.
see ya'll in a couple of hours.
Very good imitation of the Fux News crowd. Heh. You could be rich!
bigvic | Email | Homepage | 05.28.05 - 11:43 am | #
thanks. i have decided to stop letting the cognitive dissonance affect me. i figure, I shouldn't let it make me cross-eyed when they are the ones who should blow up. so i have embraced it. 
and, hey, of it's all entertainment, it's not like it's real, right? i can merely act a part.
basically people knew that we were not showing up to replace Japanese or German occupation with American colonialism (insert more caveats)
Padre, this may have been true of the 'liberation' of the white-skinned world in Europe, it was emphatically NOT true in the brown-skinned former colonies of white-skinned folks in Asia, Africa, and the ME. Think Vietnam, for example; but there were others: the Philippnes, New Guinea...in all those places, and dozens more, we were showing up--and the people KNEW it--to reinstall their former colonial masters, or just simply to take over anew...US influence since 1945 has NEVER been about national or peoples' liberation, but about maintaining US influence, pressing for US trade and military hegemony by hook or by crook...
i figgered you for knowing that, your caveats notwithstanding...
jis' sighin'...
.
just sayin...
I'll check out your podcast too, genoasail. I loves me some Zinn. Plus, with the poetry, this looks like a thread worth saving.
All the better that the troll uses caps, makes it easier to scroll past.
Now I'm off to do some gardening.
"This is what you shall do: love the earth and the Sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to everyone that asks, stand up for the stupid and the crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence towards the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown, or to any man or number of men, go freely with powerful uneducated persons and with the young and mothers of families, re-examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul; and your very flesh shall be a great poem, and have the richest fluency, not only in its words, but in the silent lines of its lips and face, and between the lashes of your eyes, and in every motion and joint of your body."
Walt Whitman
1,653 soldiers have died in the past 26 months in Iraq.
While that may be 'true,' in some sense, it is patently false to the facts on the ground, where more hundreds--perhaps thousands--of mortally wounded soldiers and marines who have been injured in Iraq are whisked away to die in Qatar, Germany, or DC; and thereby not get into the 'official' Iraq Deathwatch...
.
Shrub is forever 19 as well.
Fucker.
trip to the store to secure some fine bacon, awe inspiring sky, a return trip for some pictures, and then the sucker punch.
yeah, my wife said it was beautiful in b-town this morning. too bad, i cannot say the same about h-town. but, i too, am impressed with Tillman Sr. it takes a lot of courage to take on the military like that.
Karin,
I saw that piece about all hell breaking out in Haiti. WTF? 700 people killed in political attacks and Americans ordered to leave the country. I suppose the run away bride is more compelling.
While that may be 'true,' in some sense, it is patently false to the facts on the ground, where more hundreds--perhaps thousands--of mortally wounded soldiers and marines who have been injured in Iraq are whisked away to die in Qatar, Germany, or DC; and thereby not get into the 'official' Iraq Deathwatch...
WGG -- do you know where and/or how those deaths get reported (if at all)?
speaking of other news we didnt hear about: Apparently there is a terror alert in Indonesia. How come we didn't hear about that? One would think that the political moment would be right to skeer people, wouldnt it?
Woody, yes, the US did its poor share of colonialism, certainly - remember the Maine? But we weren't very good at it. It never formed a way of life, being an Empire or trying to be an Empire - always as a country we were edgy about the whole thing, remember that we began as a country as opposed to being part of someone else's Empire. Even when, as in VietNam, we seemed to be turning up to replace the French, we weren't really able to assert it well enough to make it so. Our Colonial ambitions have always been strongest the closest to us - almost among our neighbors. There is something that is fundamentally isolationist in character about Americans - which makes us ineffective in Empire and half-assed in aggression. We never believe we have anything at all to learn from anything or anyone, and instead are stunned to discover that what we do is neither new nor successful, only bolixed from the start.
It's something that we are learning again, I suppose.
Jezebel:
In Nam, they were reported under the quaint euphemism "Out-of-Theater deaths," iirc.
.
GWPDA:
Re: US Colonialism
Two Words: Chalmers Johnson
Our tactics have been different, but the strategy is the same. We do it like militaristic theme parks, called bases, which are spread over the globe, over 800 of them...
"The base world is complex. It has its own airline. It has 234 golf courses around the world. It has something like 70 Lear jet luxury airplanes to fly generals and admirals to the golf courses, to the armed forces ski resort at Garmisch in the Bavarian Alps. Inside the bases, the military does everything in their power to make them look like Little America. I mean, Burger King has just opened at Baghdad International Airport.
There are large numbers of women in the armed forces today, [yet] you can't get an abortion at a military hospital abroad. Sexual assaults are not at all uncommon in the armed forces. If you were a young woman in the armed forces today and you were based in Iraq, and you woke up one morning and found that you were pregnant, you have no choice but to go on the open market in Baghdad looking for an abortion, which is not a very happy thought. These places are enclosed, self-sealed.
Militarism is not defense of the country. By militarism, I mean corporate interest in a military way of life. It derives above all from the fact that service in the armed forces is, today, not an obligation of citizenship. It is a career choice. It has been since 1973. I thought it was wonderful when PFC Jessica Lynch, who was wounded at Nasiriyah, was asked by the press, "Why did you join the Army?" She said, "I come from Palestine, West Virginia; I couldn't get a job at Wal-Mart." She said, "I joined the Army to get out of Palestine, West Virginia" -- a perfectly logical answer on her part. And it's true of a great many people in the ranks today. They do not expect to be shot at. That's one of the points you should understand; it's a career choice, like a kid deciding to work his way up to Berkeley by going through a community college, and a state college, and then transferring in at the last minute or something like that.
Standing behind it is the military-industrial complex. We must, once again, bear in mind the powerful warnings of probably the two most prominent generals in our history. George Washington, in his farewell address, warns about the threat of standing armies to liberty, and particularly republican liberty. He was not an isolationist; he's talking about what moves power toward the imperial presidency, toward the state. It requires more taxes. Everything else which he said has come true. The other, perhaps more famous one was Dwight Eisenhower in his farewell address, where he invented the phrase "military-industrial complex." We now know that he intended to say "military-industrial-congressional complex," but he was advised not to go that far. They're here. They're real. And we haven't been paying attention to them. If you were a politically well-connected capitalist in recent times, the best way to make money was in the petroleum industry, Enron and things like that, or in telecoms. Now the best way to make money is in the military-industrial complex."
WGG: do they report them at all now? Do we still have that euphemistic category?
That's some cool Whitman sampler.
jezebel"
google/dogpile "out-of-theater deaths" and discover This startling site:
"...There is excellent reason to believe that the Department of Defense is deliberately not reporting a significant number of the dead in Iraq. We have received copies of manifests from the MATS that show far more bodies shipped into Dover AFP than are reported officially. The educated rumor is that the actual death toll is in excess of 7,000. Given the officially acknowledged number of over 15,000 seriously wounded, this elevated death toll is far more realistic than the current 1,400+ now being officially published. When our research is complete, and watertight, we will publish the results along with the sources In addition to the evident falsification of the death rolls, at least 5,500 American military personnel have deserted, most in Ireland but more have escaped to Canada and other European countries, none of whom are inclined to cooperate with vengeful American authorities. (See TBR News of 18 February for full coverage on the mass desertions) This means that of the 158,000 U.S. military shipped to Iraq, 26,000 either deserted, were killed or seriously wounded. Ed ----------------- A lot of detail here, including soldiers names, they do have names, even though bushco can't be bothered with that."
waddafukdeweyegno, ya gno?
Chalmers Johnson went to school on John S. Galbraith, Woody....
He never has, however, fully come to terms with the difference between empire and militarism. Empire has, as one of its agents, a controlled military which functions entirely at the command of the civil, metropolitan authority.....
What we have is an uncontrolled militarism which has come to demand autonomy to create its own structures, proto-political entities and survival mechanisms.
It hasn't happened by accident. But don't conceal it under the term empire.
GWPDA sez: Empire has, as one of its agents, a controlled military which functions entirely at the command of the civil, metropolitan authority.....
What we have is an uncontrolled militarism which has come to demand autonomy to create its own structures, proto-political entities and survival mechanisms.
I think I disagree. What we have, as Johnson argues, is the complete absorbtion of civil authority by the 'military/industrial/congressional' complex...this does not mean it is an 'uncontrolled military'; it means the military operates at the whim, and under the explicit direction of the imperial militarists whose goals have been imposed and are borne by corrupted civil authority...it doesn't make it any less of an empire...imho
QL in NY,
RE:Now I believe it truly was for one reason only: oil.
Naaah. I mean, not if you mean it in the sense of "the US wanted to secure its oil supply". There was no problem getting oil from Iraq before the war, and now it's pretty hard, although I guess what they can in fact get out constitutes a pretty nice little slush fund for them. However, our top 5 countries from which we import oil, in order, are Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuela, and Nigeria. Notice that only one of those is in the Persian Gulf, and what we get from there is only a tiny bit more than what we get from Mexico. And given the vast reserves of now-economicall extractable oil represented by the Canadian tar sands, there is no compelling argument that energy national security was a reason to invade Iraq. To be honest, if that really had been the reason, crass and imperialistic as it is, I'd be a little bit less outraged by this war, because at least that would have represented a compelling US interest.
Before you get the wrong idea about me, though, I'll say that it's also a no-brainer that our ostensible motives were bullshit, too. Obviously, we didn't invade Iraq to get rid of any WMD or for the sake of democracy, either. The former is clear from the fact that the troops were given a verry perfunctory level of NBC warfare training, as David Hackworth (RIP) repeatedtly pointed out. Hell, in the climactic conditions prevalent in that country, a chemical warfare suit is as likely to kill you as a VX bomb, anyway! As to the ridiculous idea that we care a lot about democracy, I trust that that canard is obvious enough to everyone here that no examples are required.
So why did we do it? I think it was
partially because of an insane vision of total world domination, championed by Wolfowitz, et al. and set forth in the PNAC manifesto. In that scenario, I guess the oil plays a role there in terms of controlling the access of our main forseeable geostrategic rivals, China and India to the oil.
I think it was also because the Afghanistan invasion was not going to be enough to maintain the jingoistic fever pitch that these guys needed in order to maintain their political powere here. I think that in that they were successful.
And of course, there are all the Halliburton-type corrupt crony deals that the "reconstruction" has made possible, and the fact that people were walking on Dim Son's dad's face every day in Bhagdad.
Not that the mere grabbing of oil for energy security is a great reason, but all of these reasons are much worse than that....
blerb:
the most compelling reason for the US conquest of Iraq was illustrated the other day by the agreement signed between China and Iran that Iran would supply energy resources for China in return for assistance with nuclear technology.
that is, World Real-politik.
the Busheviks proceed from the understanding that if they are to retain their central role in world affairs, they must exert power in regions where there is a natural arena for conflict. THis is the vastly energy-rich region between the Caspian Sea and the Chinese border...
Iraq presents the US with a platform from which to launch long-range bomber aircraft which have enough range to cover the entire central Asian steppe...think of it as a base for air-borne US cossacks...
.
Woody'd guitar,
RE:think of it as a base for air-borne US cossacks
Yeah, I guess, but I think that Afghanistan would work just as weell for that. But if you put together Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and a number of the former Soviet republics we're cozying up to, like Uzbekistan, you've got yourself a pretty effective cordon sanitaire to control the flow of Caspian oil into China and India, thus exerting control over both them as importers and over Russia as an exporter....
My girlfriend went for an interview there a few weeks ago (the Star Tribune) and she said that each person had up in their little office space a card that read "Less News, More Truth."
The Iraq war is indeed becoming more and more like 'Nam every day.
The key issue in both is our failure to identify properly who/what we are fighting against.
Everytime I hear someone on the MSM derisively talking about "insurgents" -- I cringe. Who are these insurgents?
The lines start sounding earily like the Vietnam war: "these insurgents are foreigners and Baathist dead-enders" (cf. "the VietCong are part of Ho Chi Minh's army"). But what if the insurgents are a genuine popular movement like it turned out, in large part, the VietCong were? What is the cost of burning villages in order to save them?
Let's face it: the number of us who predicted -- if the invasion of Iraq were easy, the occupation would be hard -- were right. Not to defend the Baathists, but they were really the only Iraqi nationalists. That Iraq "fell" so quickly was a sure sign that nobody cares about Iraq. In such a circumstance, how would any central government, especially one propped up by the Americans, hold? How could the country not fall into civil war?
They say "truth is the first casualty of war". But it is the failure of our high level leadership to face the truth (why doesn't our so-called Christian CiC understand "you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free"?) about who our enemies would be in Iraq and why they would fight (why don't righty-tighties who, if we were liberated from a commie dictator by foreigners, would fight the liberators and their "black helecopters" as hard as they would fight the commies they would loath, understand why some Iraqis might take arms against us?) that is loosing the war.
Just like in 'Nam, they'll blame the media, the protestors, etc. But the fact remains the loss off the war will be because of a failure of empathy. Too often we confuse empathy with sympathy -- but, while we might not want to sympathize with "terrorists" and "insurgents", we do need to know where they are coming from.
The converse of "know thy enemies and you will win a thousand battles" is also true.
Right below the the Tillman letter in the Post is this one:
Ann Scott Tyson["For Female GIs, Combat Is a Fact; Many Duties in Iraq Put Women at Risk Despite Restrictive Policy," front page, May 13] wrote a great article about women in the military in Iraq, but she did not have to travel to the combat zone to see the facts of women in combat.
Among our wounded warriors at Walter Reed Army Medical Center you will find female patients as well as male. Bullets, explosives and warfare in general do not differentiate by gender.
JAMES BAPPLE
The Washington Post has two stories listed under "Politics"
Bush Pushes Base Closure Plan
• Rice Well Received in Calif.
The Bush story discusses what Bush said and says that the graduates cheered each other. (The graduates offered loud cheers for one another as their names were called to receive their diplomas, with the loudest cheers reserved for colleagues who made it despite borderline grade-point averages or other setbacks.) There was no indication that Bush was ever applauded or cheered. It did say that he "delighted" the crowd by putting on a "blue and gold sweat suit jacket" given to him.
The Rice Story includes Rice was greeted with a standing ovation. She was interrupted by applause several times and was asked questions about as challenging as those at a presidential town hall meeting.
I think we can pretty much assume that Bush bombed at Annapolis.
"I think people worry that Iraq will turn out the same as Vietnam," says Luella. "It seems such a waste. You can't print what I think about it."
MAY turn out the same as Viet Nam?????
"OH GOODY!! ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THREADS WHERE WE PRETEND WE CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS! I LOVE THOSE THREADS!!
Eschatonian"
And YOU are posting from IRAQ????
If not, STFU and go onto a freeper board with the rest of those valiant uber-patriot keyboarders.
Any Viet Nam vet whose child or grandchild talks about enlisting should lock said child or grandchild in their room until this is over!
Bu$h and company need to be hauled to the Hague in CHAINS!
bigvic
Can I play the Lyndie Englund part there?
HOW is wanting this war to end "spitting on the troops' graves"?
This is the same old tired shit that the fascist uber-patriots spouted during Viet Nam!
"AND THEN THERE WAS THAT TIME MY SQUAD WAS FIGHTING IN THE TET OFFENSIVE AND SOME GOOK THREW A GRENADE AT US AND THE GUYS THOUGHT WE WERE ALL GONNA DIE, BUT I GRABBED THE GRENADE AND ATE IT, AND FARTED SHAPNEL BACK AT THE ENEMY AND WON THE BATTLE, AND THEN WENT BACK TO SAIGON AND HAD 10 WHORES TO CELEBRATE! THEN I CAME BACK TO THE STATES AND TURNED IN MY UNIFORM FOR PAISLEYS AND GOT COOL AND STUFF, AND LEARNED THE EVIL OF MY WAYS AND SPIT THE WORLDS BIGGEST LOOGY ON THOSE BABYKILLERS WHO CAME HOME AFTER ME!!
Eschatonian"
Are you not aware that typing in all caps is rude?
And why do people like you persist in the belief that the louder they speak, the more credibility their bullshit will have?
(Wrong)
"There was no problem getting oil from Iraq before the war"
Sure there was, Saddam was selling his oil for Euros for one. The sanctions were coming down and the french and russians were licking their chops at getting back in.
Canadian tar sands are a marginal thing that will help cover rising demand and falling production in the non-OPEC world, but NOT that significant overall. For one, it takes a lot of engineering, energy, and infrastructure to get that stuff to market, while the Persian Gulf just runs the pumps and gets its oil at ~$2/bbl.
Going into Iraq as we did was a master play. Kudos to the architects. Too bad they didn't have a winning plan, but one must respect their heuvos.
"And YOU are posting from IRAQ????
"If not, STFU and go onto a freeper board with the rest of those valiant uber-patriot keyboarders."
Amen to that... all those "support OUR troops" -- "support the troops" when all they really mean is support the f'ing fascist policy that put them there. If the repugs truly wanted to support the troops, they wouldn't, in the midst of TWO wars, have attempted to cut veterans pay (last year), cut benefits to vets (in the House this or last week), and refuse to pass legislation actually increasing death benefits for soldiers (still stands at $12,000 because some repug in the House blocked it over the winter or last fall). So for the repug sheeple who think they're fighting the good fight here, go enlist, or indeed, STFU.
Well how do you do, young Willie McBride
Do yeh mind if I sit here down by your grave side
And rest for a while in the warm summer sun
I've been walkin' all day, and I'm nearly done
I can see by your grave stone you were only nineteen
When you joined the brave fallen in 1916
I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean
Or young Willie McBride was it slow and obscene?
There was a guy in town whose son left to Viet Nam and never made it back alive.
His Chevelle sat in the driveway untouched, driven the weekend before he left as a graduation present.
It. Sat. There. For. Decades.
Good old boys would ask to buy the hot rod and fix it up, wash it and get the leaves out of the hood's eaves and air up the near rotted through tires.
Still sitting on its Ohio radials, dust caked and rusting, a spiderweb spun window on one side.
Even the obligatory used car dealer would stop by from time to time. Or air jocks would inquire, wanting their chance to soup up the Chevy and cruise it for an honest offer.
That father would cuss them and tell them to get off his property. That car was something no one could ever have, like the good life his son lost in service and could never share with others. He only made people leave, but the way he said so let you know why he did, if you knew the rest of the story.
I remember going for a walk after 9-11 and passing that place. The car was gone, the old man was as well. It's hard to let go of some things, and so you hold on desperately knowing that it will not change an events' outcome.
Realizing that others rendered void prices paid already. I hope the old man wasn't of sound mind to grasp the full impact of these final years. He probably was though, he kept the sharp faculties of the best and brightest his boy embodied alive in his world the only way he could, by holding the dream he had near.
Every day was his Memorial Day. he couldn't see a picture in his house, pass by his namesake's room or walk the driveway without reminders of his all American boy.
I always had a sort of penance or prayer as a passed his place, never disturbed his world. The hallowed rustle of leaves from under that auto for most of the year or its frozen poze or the hot dusty rusted choked watch that car kept watch of. Awaiting a return that would never come as seasons passed.
I think about that when I think about this war. A new generation knows this kind of quiet. Something beyond words that can be said between blood even, a chasm.
Where were they when they died? Their last thoughts, words, actions? Did they think of me? Did they say my name? No answers to await, and still you wait.
No one should be asked to do that. Thousands face this silence today. They'll never get those answers in the same way.
The leadership should answer all questions before we send them. It is their obligation. Because unless we have answers entrusted in full ahead of departure, those who endure loss will wait for the answers in kind that can never come.
Atrios,
I have long loved your site, and I check it daily. The somewhat obscure reference to Eric Bogle's "Green Fields of France" is particularly apt, and an example of why I think you are a particularly good blogger. That song and his other "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" are the two most moving anti-war songs I've ever heared. Folks should look them up to see some powerful words on the absurdity and horror of this pointless war.
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