I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
first!!
(breathes in deeply the fresh thread)
Argh.
This Manjoo person is supposedly a liberal? I weep.
(1) Style over substance is something to be admired.
(2) Defamatory surprise attacks are no longer unprofessional or frowned upon -- they are "cheeky."
It's going to take a long time to reclaim the media, if it can be done at all.
our "super power" military is stuck in iraq...iraq...
Farqwaad is clearly unfamiliar with the "concerned troll" concept.
Don't know who this Manjoo person is, but Krugman has a lot more "style" (and substance) than he does.
Who bought him off?
Thees Manjoo, who joo speek of, he ees a how-you-say "Wankerrr", yes?(kitty scrunching claw air quotes)
aiyyayay Santos Juan y Paolo y Santo Domingo y Maria, so many wankerrrs, too few keeties, yes?
Eef I, El Gato Negro, saw thees wankerrr, I would say to heem:
"Halloo, I am El Gato Negro!
You arrre a "Wankerrrr", preparrre to be clawed."
So.
Possibly OT -- does the Howler always hate Dean (or am I misreading him?)
I doubt that most Democrats actually want Gandhi leading the party at the moment (maybe "Gandhi II -- no more Mr Passive Resistance." -- ref. "UHF" w/ Weird Al)
Manjoo doesn't know the dif between "fork-tongued" and "sharp-tongued." Why did no editor notice? Predictable that such a person would prefer Okrent's "style."
Possibly OT -- does the Howler always hate Dean (or am I misreading him?)
My read on that item was that he was describing the spin, but I could be wrong.
Manjoo is usually more sensible? He's hardly ever more sensible if ever. Why I don't subscribe to Salon.
It's money that matters.
And NYT is a much better place to work than Salon.
Male menopause.
Between this and the glowing farewell letters to the editor, I feel like I've been transported to some bizarro parallel universe where Okrent *isn't* a stupid, petulant little prick.
Or any other stupid, petulant little pricks, for that matter.
Ugh...that made me sick.
If I read the link correctly, Manjoo said Krugman was correct, he just didn't like the way he said it?
Holy shit! That was disgusting. Maybe Manjoo fell on his head recently...
-
If I read the link correctly, Manjoo said Krugman was correct, he just didn't like the way he said it?
Yes, while Okrent was mostly wrong, he was soooo much cooler about it that pissy old Krugman.
Eli --
Thanks for the comment -- I confess that I don't much look at the Howler anymore -- I find it hard going -- the style rather than the substance (OTOH, I always read mark A. R. Kleiman because he is so clear)
Must rush to Vespers
OT--Have you heard the latest from our glorious War on Terror?
The Guardian has reported that--while gays, of course, are still banned--battalion commanders can no longer dismiss new recruits for alcohol, drug abuse, or physical unfitness!
Beautiful. How many more Abu Ghraibs are we setting up?
Remember, kids: Defending yourself against slander is waaaay uncool, and makes your butt look big.
Unless you're a Republican, of course.
Don't think Somerby hates Dean, but has never been keen on him.
Any he misquotes Dean, Dean said he doesn't hate Republicans, he hates what they are doing to the country.
I confess that I don't much look at the Howler anymore -- I find it hard going -- the style rather than the substance
Uh-oh!
Manjoo is just padding his resume. With lies, so the repigs will identify with him. Fucking loser brown-nose kissass.
The Guardian has reported that--while gays, of course, are still banned--battalion commanders can no longer dismiss new recruits for alcohol, drug abuse, or physical unfitness!
Anything - ANYTHING! - to avoid a draft.
Rmj sez: And NYT is a much better place to work than Salon.
-5:04 pm
yeah, bucking for promotion's what i thought immediately, too, robert...
ps: how's the coffee holdinup?
"--while gays, of course, are still banned--battalion commanders can no longer dismiss new recruits for alcohol, drug abuse, or physical unfitness!
--rorschach
I don't know why I'm laughing, I should be crying.
Each revelation becomes more absurd than the last. We're way beyond "Catch 22."
But as we’ve watched “TV liberals” for the past dozen years, we have rarely seen any sign that they actually care very much about outcomes. In the present day, most of them wouldn’t enact the Bush agenda themselves, but they show no sign of actually caring about whether or not the agenda wins. And there’s nothing you can do to make them mad; they proved that in their acquiescence to the two-year press corps war that finally brought Candidate Bush to the White House.
{snip}
Simple explanation—they aren’t really liberals. As we’ve noted before, they’re the Washington Generals. They’re just paid to play libs on TV.
Exactly, The only members of our team that actually breathes fire on TV are Clark, and Dean. Which means if we are lucky, they'll be on 4 times a year, mop up the floor with PumpkinHead, or with Blitzers beard, reminding them why they don't like to have the good Doctor, or former General, on TV.
Farhad Manjoo seems to like the idea of riling up his liberal readers. I don't usually spend much time on his stuff because I think this is a purposeful thing in his writing and I resent that.
Yes, while Okrent was mostly wrong, he was soooo much cooler about it that pissy old Krugman.
Sadly, it ain't just this particular wanker. I hear this kind of shit constantly, and it never fails to set my teeth on edge. Like the time I bitched at a friend of mine for forwarding me some typical e-glurge, which was demonstrable bullshit. His response basically boiled down to, "Who cares if it's true? You're being cranky, that's all..."
So fucking many idiots really believe that the truth doesn't matter. God, how I HATE this shit.
ps: how's the coffee holdinup?
WoodyGuthriesGuitar (aka...)
Lying dormant in the freezer at the moment, as other coffees equally frozen claimed my attention.
But it's day is coming soon....
If I didn't know the author I'd have guessed it was a Cokie Roberts column.
Dean is going to be a big magnet of critics. His flypoaper theory works brilliantly!
Because if you can hang Dean on every last comma printed or extended reply he makes on live topics-
The natural conclusion is that the same thing sholud be done to Bush and the entire Republican platform in Congress. not to mention comments certain judicial Nominees made.
Go for it Howard- watch how you say it. Don't let the emotion reply get ahead of the content that is with it.
Take a second to reply. The energy cannot overtake the execution. You don't scalpel with jackhammers. 
OT:Barb Boxer on CSPan is soooo sssssssultry. 
I, too, do not know this Manjoo.
But the piece reads like a whiney pander-to-the-boss kind of thing.
His response basically boiled down to, "Who cares if it's true? You're being cranky, that's all..."
Yeah, we liberals are so tetchy about our country being flushed down the toilet. We should all just lie back and enjoy it...
The only members of our team that actually breathes fire on TV are Clark, and Dean.
The one who bugs me the most is Carville. If he is such a goddamn genius at knowing how to win elections, he should go win elections and not yuk it up on TV with the Kool Kidz.
There's nothing too underhanded for these creeps and their enablers -- like Manjoo (who reminds me of Evelyn Varden in The Night of the Hunter)
Hit them fast, hit them hard, and hit them repeatedly.
"--while gays, of course, are still banned--battalion commanders can no longer dismiss new recruits for alcohol, drug abuse, or physical unfitness!
--rorschach
I don't know why I'm laughing, I should be crying.
Each revelation becomes more absurd than the last. We're way beyond "Catch 22."
I know what you mean, mer...
More ludicrous and disgusting by the minute...
But, it's essential to maintaining our energy indepence, right?
America's unquenched thirst for gasoline is stretching the nation's refineries to their limits. Even so, no new refineries are likely to be built soon, and that helps ensure that gas prices will stay high as America becomes increasingly dependent on foreign-made gasoline.
Exactly, The only members of our team that actually breathes fire on TV are Clark, and Dean. Which means if we are lucky, they'll be on 4 times a year
Yes, Dean and Clark kick it. There are so many others that I'd love to see - like Bob Herbert, Joe Conanson, Al Franken, Amy Goodman, etc. - of that quality. IOW, folks who have a passion for what they're talking about.
The one who bugs me the most is Carville. If he is such a goddamn genius at knowing how to win elections, he should go win elections and not yuk it up on TV with the Kool Kidz.
Thersites
These guys are parasites. The politicians win or lose. The "advisers" take the credit and cash in.
It's money that matters.
"Must rush to Vespers
Prior Aelred"
Does Prior Aelred have Clippy in a white mitre popping up on his screen reminding him of prayer hours?
What a weasel that guy is.
Sorry that's neither particularly
insightful or witty, but reading
that drivel just blew my tiny mind.
I can see Shrub reprising his "letter sweater" cheerleading, megaphoned Andover halcyon days each night at his last 9:30 PM thoughts before his satin-protected slumber:
Iraq!
Iraq!
There's no turning back!
There is some competition with Shrub as the worst US President in history coming from James Buchanan and Warren G. Harding and Richard Milhous Nixon.
But George W. Bush proudly receives the winner's laurels as the most embarrassing US President in history.
By popular demand.
simels--
I'm with you. Nothing say but "bullshit."
Eli--I sent the same guy a piece (in a Mississippi newspaper, no less) about the Iraq profiteers getting paid to drive empty trucks back and forth across the desert. Of course, he told me to stop sending him such disturbing fare.
I know people this willfully blind have always been around. Given that, how have we ever had a government that cared about doing the right thing?
The one who bugs me the most is Carville. If he is such a goddamn genius at
knowing how to win elections, he should go win elections and not yuk it up on TV
with the Kool Kidz.
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 06.04.05 - 5:20 pm | #
Fuck Carville.
He threw a hissy fit after Jon
Stewart bitchslapped "Crossfire."
Does Prior Aelred have Clippy in a white mitre popping up on his screen reminding him of prayer hours?
Draco - 5:23 pm
i reckon when you've been at it long enough, it becomes pretty much second nature...like your body clock, except in latin: matins, lauds, compline, vespers, etc...
I know people this willfully blind have always been around. Given that, how have we ever had a government that cared about doing the right thing?
Sure, they've always been around. But have they ever before been the majority before?
Stewart "bitchslaps" Crossfire...
Crossfire quits after 25 years...
Daily Show ratings go up...
The writing's on the wall, if we can get people to slow down and read it.
Obviously, I like saying "before"...
What made my head explode was the Manjoo line, "Though we give the win to Krugman, who seems to have more of the facts on his side, Okrent gets points for style....that's not to say Okrent is the clear loser in this fight. Okrent's got a gift for the lethal personal attack, and he wields it handily in this fight." Since when are "lethal personal attacks" more substantive than THE FUCKING TRUTH?!
ARRRRGHGHHH!
Farhad Manjoo is a JERK.
I second Wankhammer. Manjoo is one of the reasons I am not going to renew my Salon subscription. Joan Walsh's promotion is the other.
Given that, how have we ever had a government that cared about doing the right thing?
It starts with a government comprised of people who admit that they weren't born already equipped with the knowledge of what the "right thing" really is, but that they will strive to determine and implement it.
The one who bugs me the most is Carville. If he is such a goddamn genius at knowing how to win elections, he should go win elections and not yuk it up on TV with the Kool Kidz.
I was at the bank yesterday, and they had the TV on CNN (first time I've seen any of that network in 8 months) and I guess it was the 25th anniversary of CrossFire, or CNN, or whatever. But they were showing clips Carville and Novak just Yukking it up, and a bit came up with Carville wearing a rubbish bin on his head (dated 7 November '04).
Point is, I am not sure who's ass I would have beaten first, If I could have magically made my way to the set, through the TV.
upon further thought, I'd have to stomp Carville's ass first, as I figure he can run faster than Novack.
Now if they were both tied down, I still think I'd have to flip a coin.
/rant
"Push out the jive ------ Bring in the Love" Monty Burns.
It starts with a government comprised of people who admit that they weren't born already equipped with the knowledge of what the "right thing" really is, but that they will strive to determine and implement it.
Zach Wheat
That's no way to win elections, these days!
More's the pity.
Did anyone hear GOP strategist Matthew Dowd on NPR yesterday morning? The reporter asked him about the Thomas Frank book "what's the Matter with Kansas?" and Frank's contention that many GOP voters were voting against their own interests.
Dowd said, amazingly, that he agreed, even echoing the "against their own interests{ part, "but I think that's a good thing" because they were voting "the national interest."
I'd never heard such absurd reification before, as if the national interest were seperate from the people living in the nation. I was reminded of Bush 41 saying the economy was good, but most Americans hadn't seen the benefits yet.
It was on Friday 6-3's Morning Edition, if you want to look it up and hear it at npr.org archives
Hit them fast, hit them hard, and hit them repeatedly.
David Ehrenstein
Damn Dave,
That sounds like my "Punch a Pundit Daily" Program, which has since morphed into "Trip a Pundit Daily".
Eli--I sent the same guy a piece (in a Mississippi newspaper, no less) about the Iraq profiteers getting paid to drive empty trucks back and forth across the desert. Of course, he told me to stop sending him such disturbing fare.
I know people this willfully blind have always been around. Given that, how have we ever had a government that cared about doing the right thing?
Captain Goto, sort-of goombah |
Halliburton did a lot of hiring out of Mississippi.
Used to have some guy go into yahoo poltiics and cuss everyone and brag about working for halliburotn.
Was nice to see his ass walked on the desert dry and disheveled and thankful to live.
He didn't really cuss on onlie when he got home after that time.
That sounds like my "Punch a Pundit Daily" Program, which has since morphed into "Trip a Pundit Daily".
kent
You've been slipping these pundits LSD?
That explains a lot, actually.
Manjoo wrote that stupid piece in Salon accusing Bill Clinton of gay bashing last April, too. Not sure he's that sensible.
WGG--Of course I was joking about Prior Aelred and Clippy, but I'm wondering if his place might use something as old-fashioned and pleasant as a bell tower, or something as horrible as bell music played over the intercom.
You've been slipping these pundits LSD?
Uhm, No.But you knew that.
I think that Potential Energy should be released from time to time. Sacrifices must be made to the gods of gravity after all.
I remember right after the election that Manjoo was one of the first to come out and call Democrats cry-babies for wanting a recount in Ohio because Bush had clearly won a mandate. He annoyed me then, and he continues to annoy me today.
As for peak oil refinery crisis- it's propaganda rosrs,
don't carry Bush's water for him. They have scaled back refinery capacity about 20% purposefully to drive up market prices.
We cap oil imports to keep prices high but America can take more in and process it.
The effort to drive down refinery competition and push pay levels down with non unuion temp help that does'nt meet OSHA guidelines is something being ignored.
We've had a lot of refinery fires resulting for underskilled, underpaid crews. This in turn allows wonderful insurance bailouts and drives market prices up further when the logistically inferior crews meet funneled demand at the facility.
They want us to pay for the oil upgrades that the market capacity already has.
By the time we add this unecessary overburdened Halliburotn subsidized oil capacity the rest of the world will near a 20% renewable model and we'll still be burning oil and driving up industry bottom lines as a result.
Since when do industry publicity hounds from houston become proponents of wise energy policy and get cited as credible sourrces for market expansion?
Ohhhh soory, I forgot, K street starts in Houston.
The reason they push the refinery meme is that people are finding out about price caps placed upon oil to make gas higher here.
We can tell OPEC to kiss our ass. Venezuela has more Oil than the Sauds and doesn't like OPEC's interference with their country's product.
The Iran COntra was not just about drugs and laundering funds. It involved establishing mideast counteroperatives who took out opposition to establishment of people not playing the gameplan.
It helped establish a string of puppet gov't in the hemisphere willing to let OPEC come in and decide energy policy.
I's why they hate Chavez so, he is a threat to the post peak push for oil concessions the Saus need. We're their by proxy police force in this, because it fuels our economy and oil interests as well.
I'd never heard such absurd reification before, as if the national interest were seperate from the people living in the nation. I was reminded of Bush 41 saying the economy was good, but most Americans hadn't seen the benefits yet.
"What's good for General Motors is good for the country."
The reification, IOW, is an old standard of American capitalism. Why do you think unions were not in the best interest of the laborers?
As for peak oil refinery crisis- it's propaganda rosrs,
don't carry Bush's water for him.
No need to be rude.
Refineries are running near top capacity now, and this fact is making the refinery owners millions in profits.
I am well aware of the horrific safety conditions in refineries, living as I do in Texas and having blogged on a number of fatal explosions in the past year.
Please feel free to add whatever info you have to the conversation. But there doesn't seem much reason to say I'm aiding Bush by noting reports of insufficient refinery capacity and the consequent reliance on foreign sources.
If I'm inaccurate, simply correct me, and cite your source.
We have a bell tower -- four strokes of the bell ten minutes before the office -- three strokes five minutes before -- the bell for meals is for the immediate assmebly of the community in the refectory
(we also have a PA system -- that really sucks)
Farhad Manjoo is usually a lot more sensible than this.
Where the fuck did you get this idea?
The guy's clueless about everything: tech, politics, you name it.
He's an idiot.
Haven't you guys heard? The truth no longer has any credibility...
Your piece even shows the deliberate scaling down of capacity to meter supply for high target rates. "The total refining capacity of the 149 U.S. refineries was 16.8 billion barrels a day last year, down from 17.9 billion barrels a day in 1981. In 1981, there were 324 refineries, but many closed between 1981 and 1996, when refining capacity exceeded the demand for gasoline."
They stopped expanding the capacity to meet demand? Over two decades worth?
The numbers don't lie. And acting like oil money is afraid to expand over money is an abusrd proposition.
The refinery capacity went up 45% compared with ARACMO's listed USA capacity of 10.3 mill per day from 1959. They put it to a crawl by design.
Really if aggressive expansion in every secotr isn't the design then eliminate the oil depreciation allowance because that is what it is there for.
We pay for the costs of every well including the dry one AWOL left to be bought out by the Bath/Bin Laddeen crew.
Think about it- they cap 27.5% of all oil drilled domestically as is to allow for their costs of maintaining business.
Also they are reimbursed costs. This sounds like another excuse to ramp up their market at our expense.
Eliminate a portion of the cap and make it concurrent. Use that money to afford the increase.
Apologies for being so forward, being called a Bush supporter by accident of presenting media is a side affect.
No slight to you, the atriot community is much richer with your contributions and blog.
I was disgusted when I saw that Manjoo piece. Glad Somerby addressed it, in his usual incomparable fashion.
Manjoo is hit and miss. Mostly miss. Rarely click on his articles, especially the tech ones. Feh.
Farhad Manjoo seems to like the idea of riling up his liberal readers. I don't usually spend much time on his stuff because I think this is a purposeful thing in his writing and I resent that.
Ditto. He lumps people together almost as bad as a wingnut, maybe worse.
NO!
Manjoo is NOT usually better than this! He is a fucking complete lightweight -- compared to Bohlert, for instance.
Yeah, I was surprised to see even that much of a tip of the hat from Atrios.
Farhad Manjoo is a lite-liberal, techno-libertarian Pangloss who's still partying like it's 1999.
He's such a starry-eyed little suckup that his paean to the Macintosh made me sick, and I'm a 20-year, die-hard Mac user.
I really wish Somerby would hire an editor. He's usually spot on, and occasionally quite funny, but I get the impression that he's trying to fill space sometimes.
Left or right, mass market journalism is indifferent to truth. By the rules of journalism, Krugman is just a bad sport. We should get over the notion that "good" journalists will be signficantly better than "bad" ones. The institution is vicious.
A funny thing; until I read this thread, I had no idea that Manjoo was supposed to be a Liberal. I always equated him with Harwood of the WSJ for some reason - someone that the Sunday political shows will put on to banter with the roundtable of a fundie preacher, the hard right repub, and the MOR repub.
Silly douchebag.
And fuck Tim Russert in his melon head.
The real question is this:
How can Somerby be promoted? I'm talking maybe next DNC chair. The cat needs to be out there speaking where more people can hear.
|
What are you talking about?
Farhad Manjoo is not usually that bad only because there is no way to dig below rock bottom.
He's usually close.
Last night I finally got around to watching Bill Maher's last HBO show before his summer hiatus and was amazed: His panel was actually discussing some of the issues prominent in the liberal blogosphere -- and among real liberals in the real world! Usually, however, these topics are verboten anywhere in the media.
The panel comprised Al Franken, Gore Vidal and some newswoman from ABC -- 2 real liberals (as opposed to Somerby's TV liberals) and a typical media whore from the SCLM.
There was actually a substantive discussion about how many liberals now sense, with very good reasons and logic, that there's something seriously crooked in our electoral process.
At one point Maher was talking about how all the electronic "glitches" seemed to favor the Shrub, and the media whore piped up to say something like, "Well, you know, Republicans complained about things like voting the dead..."
Talk about lame... I mean, How many votes can you steal by voting the dead as opposed to hacking into central tabulators?
Sometimes Maher ticks me off when his shallowness takes over, but his show is one of the few places in the media where actual liberals are welcomed.
And I'm looking forward to the return of the TV version of Al Franken's radio show on the Sundance Channel.
Salon: Infested with inside politics and sinking, sinking slowly into the abyss.
does anyone know Farhad Manjo email address so we can (as if he hasn't heard it already) inform him that he basically lost all credibility ?
I simply repeat what others have said. Manjuice has been insensible nearly every time he appears in print. He is the archetype to me of the journalist who thinks up some random shit, then goes out and looks for things to support that shit, then writes about it uncritically.
Pure wooly-headed garbage. I could get that from sophomores at any university cafe.
I'm not surprised at Manjoo's poor journalism on this topic. You should read his numerous technology stories at Salon - a classic example of the "Microsoft Press Release Reprinting Service" which dominates much of the technology media.
It only took two or three of Manjoo's pieces to convince me that he's a dick, not to put too fine a point on it.
I feel validated, gratified, vindicated, and encouraged by the virtual consensus on this thread, partly because Atrios' generous introduction made me wonder if it was only me who had no use for the Forehead.
hmm, i'm not surprised. when i see the byline "farhad manjoo" on salon, i've learned that means "the author of this technology article managed to get everything exactly wrong."
apparently, a lot of people agree with me.
I'm disagree. Manjoo is not usually more sensible than this. When Manjoo started he was a technology section writer at Salon and he should have been fired from that job. His descriptions and analysis of the complex issues surrounding technology in our society were shallow, conventional, and poorly written. His promotion to being Salon's main writer (or at least very prominent) shows the continuing degeneration of the online magazine. Salon should have and could have done better after Jake Tapper left for ABC than Manjoo. In my mind, Manjoo's as useless as Ayelet Waldman.
Mancow is usually more sensible than this
In another great moment in "liberals in the media," today's San Francisco Chron featured E.J. Dionne making the exact same point as Republican spinpoint typist Debra Saunders: that the real problem with this whole massive, systematic violation of human rights thing was the word that Amnesty International chose to describe it. You go, fiery liberals!
I mailed jwalsh@salon.com and farhad@salon.com, linked to the Howler piece, and let them know that Farhad's column was crap and that I wouldn't be renewing my premium subscription. It expired last week.
I thought Salon was a place where the truth mattered, but that's obviously no longer the case.
Nothing new umder the sun. I terminated my subscription to Salon as soon as I saw they hired Andrew Sullivan in the days after 9/11. When I want to read liberalism, I prefer to read it straight. And nothing since then has made me regret my decision. I'm more than happy to, I'll gleefully sit through the ad and stiff Salon whenever they do have something I want to read.
I won't be played with by these jerks.
Atrios was much too kind, insisting that Manjoo was "usually more sensible" than this. Uh, yeah, if by "usually" you mean "never." Manjoo has long been known among lefties to be a weaselly tool.
Salon has really built itself a handbasket under its new editor, Joan Walsh. She got rid of the best movie writer and one of the best writers on any topic , Charles Taylor, has pushed Ayelet Waldman's horrifying maternal screeds and Manjoo's faith-based natterings. The "news" section is now dominated by "entertainment," which mostly consists of Heather Havrilesky's TV reviews (she's good, but I don't want to read five of her pieces a week)...oh, and now there is a new weekly feature on wonderful, useless, expensive, consumer items we're all dying to buy...disgusting.
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