I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
"Were the hospice workers and all of the other patients and their families just irrelevant?"
Yeah, pretty much. None of them had Tom DeLay talking about them. So F 'em.
Fuck Bush with that stogie DeLay's suckin' on.
MPCH BSH!
FCK BSH!
I'll Buy a Vowel, Pat
Pt, whch BSH?
JB r GRG
My heart broke for the woman who could not get through security at the hospice to be with her dying father. Were I her, I'd sue Randall Terry's sorry ass till he's bone dry broke.
Tom Daai--the whole family is soulless and depraved. I say put them on a desert island a la Lord of the Flies and let them have at it.
Fuck Bush with that stogie DeLay's suckin' on.
Fuck Bush with Delay's head and the stogie he has in his lie-hole. After the chainsaw makes some room of course.
.
Sadly, workers just tend to be irrelevant in today's media, no matter what the story is. The protesters got the bully pulpit because they were he loudest and weirdest. They got to claim some sort of weird allegiance with life, never mind the people who trudged through the throngs in order to spend a day caring for the ailing, truly affirming life through their efforts.
And here's a funny thing. When Star Wars III came out, I saw a few stories about the impact to the economy and productivity caused by people cutting work to watch the movie. Theme: Workers = lazy and out for themselves.
Where was the similar Schiavo story? Where was the reporter trying to figure out if the protesters out there even, you know, had jobs. If they did, why were they cutting work to hold signs outside a hospice? If they didn't, why weren't they exposed as a bunch of jobless rednecks?
Pt, whch BSH?
JB r GRG
BTH.
Tom Daai--the whole family is soulless and depraved. I say put them on a desert island a la Lord of the Flies and let them have at it.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
That's a reality show I'd watch religiously.
Tom Daai--the whole family is soulless and depraved. I say put them on a desert island a la Lord of the Flies and let them have at it.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
That's a reality show I'd watch religiously.
I think I would actually prefer to watch a reality show we're they're cut off from all their power and influence and name recognition, and have to make a living completely on their own merits.
Amen. The farking media seem to have adopted a new policy. Only report reality after letting the insane extremists have their way until the public reaches the breaking point of disgust. The press then *reports* on how the extremist hijacked the national discourse. Worked for Iraq and it worked for the sad Shiavo affair.
Um, we're = where.
Sigh.
And the second season of this reality series would be putting the Dobsons and Robertsons and Randall Terrys of the US on an island.
But instead of miking them always and filming them all of the time, just turn on the cameras and mics for 10 minutes randomly every day. Then watch them tear each other apart trying to get face time in front of the camera.
Then watch them tear each other apart trying to get face time in front of the camera.
Yeeeeesssssss. 
.
one of the really sad things about the Schiavo episode... I was abroad in Europe due to the death of a family member during the height (depth?) of this matter, and a lot of the TV news coverage images of the Schiavo case over there focused on the nutcases and their horrible signs (I guess it makes good video), so that the Italian viewer might have thought that these people represented a significant faction of American opinion, rather than a very noisy, very small minority.
-the whole family is soulless and depraved. I say put them on a desert island a la Lord of the Flies and let them have at it.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
Word. I find it hysterical that they pretend to moral and are of superior values. Hahahahahahahaha.
And here's a funny thing. When Star Wars III came out, I saw a few stories about the impact to the economy and productivity caused by people cutting work to watch the movie. Theme: Workers = lazy and out for themselves.
Where was the similar Schiavo story? Where was the reporter trying to figure out if the protesters out there even, you know, had jobs. If they did, why were they cutting work to hold signs outside a hospice? If they didn't, why weren't they exposed as a bunch of jobless rednecks?
Good questions. I had not made that connection, but you're right, I saw the Star Wars stories as well. It is a Republican mantra--if you'd just work hard enough, you too would be wealthy.
Good points, Mike M.
From the Bush-fluffing Post's perspective, the hospice workers weren't irrelevant; they were suspects.
The Post's cowardice knows no bounds.
Sally Quinn and David Broder will never invite those families or hospice workers to dinner, so why should we care about them?
/snarky media
Back to reality: it really is an excellent piece.
But what about Jebbie's continuing the attack on Michael Sciavo?
Eli--how many minutes till Hammerhead Shark Frenzy?
jeb calling for an investigation of Michael Schiavo made the papers down here today. Jeb! is a fucking monster, and I hope this asshole has an albatross of vindictive pestulence hung around his neck for the next 3 election cycles.
it might play to his fundie base, but once he campaigns outside Florida I hope this assholular toadying to the wingnuts sticks to him like glue.
at least the papers had the decency to report that if Michael S had in fact waited 40 minutes to call 911 she would have been DOA when the ambulance showed up.
Jeb!=total scumbag
Ivory Bill--I think he's trying to score points with the fundie base, which is absurd--69 percent of them indicated that they felt the government should stay out of the matter.
Eli--how many minutes till Hammerhead Shark Frenzy?
And is no one watching "Blood Surf" ?
.
Those nut cases and the MSM are all part of the same reality based commumnity under the leadership of BushCo. Jeb Bush's letter today shows how one of their leaders thinks. So rather than attack the messenger, attack the message. Show John Q. Public how to read and think critically so we can turn this misguided country around.
By Colin Brown, The Independent
American officials lied to British ministers over the use of "internationally reviled" napalm-type firebombs in Iraq.
Yesterday's disclosure led to calls by MPs for a full statement to the Commons and opened ministers to allegations that they held back the facts until after the general election.
I read about the use of napalm last year, including the military's lies about it to the press.
Yet another war crime by BushCo in Iraq.....
Kent--is Blood Surf on now?
Eli--how many minutes till Hammerhead Shark Frenzy?
About 600 by my reckoning.
And is no one watching "Blood Surf" ?
.
But what about Jebbie's continuing the attack on Michael Sciavo?
ivory bill - 11:50 am
Factual evidence discredits the notion that Terri could have been rehabilitated.
The wingnuts retreat to an area that can never be factually resolved so that the interpretation is left to "faith".
Here's what Floridians think of Jebbie's digging back at the Schiavo case:
Give it Up, Jeb
Kent--is Blood Surf on now?
Indeedly doodly neighborino.
Sorry aboot the double.
.
557, by my reckoning.
I agree that the facts are all in favor of Michael Sciavo.
But meanwhile, he's going to be subject to a criminal investigation. At least that's what it sounds like when a county prosecutor is asked by the governor to investigate a death.
renato -- That's a very interesting observation. The right constantly points its finger at us for "harming the troops" and "aiding the enemy" for demanding the truth about Afghanistan and Iraq.
We should do more to point out how cable news coverage feeds "ugly American" views overseas. Given our ugly administration and its foreign policies, cable news reinforces many things they justifiably think about us . . .
Maybe it's good Jeb Bush is doing what he is. It might diminish the chances of yet another amoral prince on the throne.
"One also has to wonder why the Post waited until after the autopsy results to print this story"
The reason? Cowardice.
I think the 24/7 coverage would have been great had it been approached from the opposite direction.
The media had the power to show the world these freakshow extremists in all their glory, but of course we know that didn't happen.
Liberal media my ass.
Off to go fishing moonbats, have a great day!
Who should I approach to pitch my pilot
"CSI: Missing White Women"?
This is sick. Support the troops? Not this regime.
National Guardsmen Not Paid
it might play to his fundie base, but once he campaigns outside Florida I hope this assholular toadying to the wingnuts sticks to him like glue.
Yep, this is turkee for his wackaloon base. Jeb's running, and the field will be cleared for him. Eight years of Shrub and we won't have seen nuthin' yet. Arm yourselves and store canned goods.
Stencil--thought they were all about missing white women
""We've got to establish the message of the Democratic Party: that we're not against America, that we're not immoral people," Sandra Brown, a committed Democrat from Galveston County, said." - Austin American-Statesman
Going to awfully hard to do with treasonous swine like Conyers, Dean, Durbin, Kennedy, et al frothing at the mouth. Will be fun to watch though.
Jeb's running,
Of course he is. That's why Cheney was veep. I've always thought that was the deal.
she knows the “people out front were extremists,” but she cannot reconcile how self-professed Christians—many wearing robes—could have been so “degrading, hurtful . . . misguided.”
“This is sacred ground,” she says.
I hate our media. They treated the Siege as though they were mainstream Merika instead of the vipers they really are. Ditto for Rumsfeld and his spectacular military failure.
Jeb's running,
Of course he is. That's why Cheney was veep. I've always thought that was the deal.
I'm always mystified whenever anyone acts like that's not a done deal...
We've got to establish the message of the Democratic Party: that we're not against America, that we're not immoral people,
No, that would be playing into their hands.
AJC, you is one funny assed troll. Pull down your skirt, the bigotry is showing.
.
Letter to Dana Milbank:
How do you sleep at night ?
You've fallen , from a high place to a new low.
Apologise to the people who are genuinely concerned about their nation. Don't belittle them .
You are a coward , and history will judge you on the wrong side .
Call Senator Conyers and say you are sorry . Call Cindy Sheehan and tell her you are sorry .
Then write another article called Second Thought.
The president can't admit a mistake . Can you ?
A.Scott
Bigvic--I got the feeling that the media were actually contemptuous of the actual mission of the hospice, which is to provide death with dignity to those who pass through its doors. It was as if by not supporting the extremists, we were made to feel that we were supporting death mongers, instead of people trying to do their job in a professional, dignified manner, and allowing families some peace and time in the final days of their loved ones.
It was as if we were all the criminals, not the nutcakes out in front.
The AJC story today quoted Jeb as saying that the probe into discrepancies on the 911 call times was "not intended to imply wrongdoing on the part of Michael Schiavo." If you could be prosecuted for hypocrisy, that lie alone ought to be good for consecutive life terms.
No, Sallyh, I think you're confusing the CSI franchise with cable news. The CSIs I've watched -- admittedly not many -- actually dealt with all kinds of murders.
I say get rid of the clutter.
"Going to awfully hard to do with treasonous swine like Conyers, Dean, Durbin, Kennedy, et al frothing at the mouth. Will be fun to watch though."
By right-wing "logic," isn't it treasonous to question the patriotism of duly elected American Congresspeople?
Just askin' . . .
I'm always mystified whenever anyone acts like that's not a done deal...
I think you may be forgetting about the Mexican wife, brown kids, and the bug-eyed bigotude of the GOP.
Other than that, sure. As long as he treats his family, like Cheney did, his gay daughter, on the last night of the RNC.
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"We've got to establish the message of the Democratic Party: that we're not against America, that we're not immoral people,"
Fucking wimpy. Get out there and yell, 'you, the Republicans, are immoral people!'
Treasonous swine are not halal, which is why Chimpy McFurious will one day have to pay for his crimes against the US Constitution.
off to the Hague with all the GOP War Criminals!
By right-wing "logic," isn't it treasonous to question the patriotism of duly elected American Congresspeople?
Only if they're Republican.
Stencil--you're right. I haven't seen that many eps this year; we're now just catching up on the reruns.
The press' job is to make sure the Popular Wartime Preznit™ stays that way. Same as how the Times wrote a big article on that fruitcake Janice Rogers Brown, the day after her appointment.
Methinks Stencil is hot for Lady Heather
A.Scott,
Trying to appeal to the better natures of "people" like Milbank is like trying to reason with a virus: The requisite gear ain't there.
I think you may be forgetting about the Mexican wife, brown kids, and the bug-eyed bigotude of the GOP.
I think "The Bushes Are The Anointed Presidential Family Of God" will trump all of that. Easily.
Unless of course W. continues to tank. Jeb's presidential chances are tied very closely to how people feel about George as his term winds down.
"off to the Hague with all the GOP War Criminals!"
When that happens, I'm proposing a road trip to Amsterdam for the Eschatonians (only a short train ride to Den Haag). I think we could have a lot of...fun in Amsterdam
Jeb! is a Catholic. Believes in the supremacy of the Pope. Worships the Roman AntiChrist.
How can any god-fearing Merikan Protestant Christian vote for a Papist, much less one with a ferriner for a wife? His treatment of his drug-addicted daughter was not exactly what you would call Christian charity, either.
Lots of fun to be had with Jeb! and his piss poor record in Florida.
I think you may be forgetting about the Mexican wife, brown kids, and the bug-eyed bigotude of the GOP.
IOKIYAR. In fact, they'll use this to pump up the Hispanic vote.
The farking media seem to have adopted a new policy: Only report reality after letting the insane extremists have their way until the public reaches the breaking point of disgust. The press then *reports* on how the extremist hijacked the national discourse. Worked for Iraq and it worked for the sad Shiavo affair.
That's what they do for EVERYTHING.
If the extremists are conservatives/Republicans, they're treated as "good guys" no matter what.
If the extremists are lefties, they're attacked and treated as marginals.
The press was shocked to find out that the vast majority of Americans -- including most FOX viewers! -- sided with Michael Schiavo. That's how out of it they are.
I think he's trying to score points with the fundie base, which is absurd--69 percent of them indicated that they felt the government should stay out of the matter.
The mullahs won't bring up the Schiavo mess when he runs, but they'll sabotage him in other ways if he doesn't prove his loyalty now. They know that their minions, like most Americans, have short attention spans, so they're demanding fealty in this short-term matter in exchange for support in two years.
Good questions. I had not made that connection, but you're right, I saw the Star Wars stories as well. It is a Republican mantra--if you'd just work hard enough, you too would be wealthy.
Yes, sure. If you work hard enough, like George W. Bush and Paris Hilton, you too can be wealthy.
What a sick fucking joke. These fucktards NEED the Place de la Concorde treatment, and as soon as possible.
As for the theme of "workers = lazy and out for themselves", I really wish that "journalists" would stop projecting their own habits on to others.
Mrs. Ibrahim--Jeb's not a real Catholic. Not even close. His Calvinist beliefs come through at every movement and word.
I think you may be forgetting about the Mexican wife, brown kids, and the bug-eyed bigotude of the GOP.
IOKIYAR. In fact, they'll use this to pump up the Hispanic vote.
I didn't even think of that.
Big Tent, bitches!!!
I will, however, sit back with popcorn and relish watching Frist and McCain get utterly destroyed by the Bush machine, even if the end result is that Jeb will be the nominee, which will be truly horrifying.
Get out there and yell, 'you, the Republicans, are immoral people!'
That's what Howard Dean does, and he's right -- which is why the press and the Vichy Dems attack him for it.
My campaign slogan for Dean still stands:
HOWARD DEAN. Because he has a pair.
(Note: Ovaries count, too, for those who fear this is sexist!)
If things run true to form, we'll get a Democratic Congress and President who will spend their first term or so cleaning up Bush's diarrheic (sp?) messes, then usher in an era of prosperity just long enough for the Repugs to gin up a new scandal machine. Then they'll trot Jeb out as a man of "moral clarity" and he'll get his chance to drive the US into the ground.
"Where was the similar Schiavo story? Where was the reporter trying to figure out if the protesters out there even, you know, had jobs. If they did, why were they cutting work to hold signs outside a hospice? If they didn't, why weren't they exposed as a bunch of jobless rednecks?"
A buddy of mine used to work for an absolute tyrant who owns a small business here in Toronto. This asshole was practically a cartoon caricature of every bad boss you've ever heard of: Stupid, mean, bullying, loud-mouthed, self-pitying. He's also an anti-abortion nut and religious fanatic (and the man's an Italian Catholic, so not technically a fundie per se...but really, we're talking tomato/tahmato here).
Why is this relevant, you ask? My friend happened to be changing channels one evening while the Schiavo circus was at full froth, and he abruptly paused and gaped at the television screen in amazement: His former boss was among the crowd of lunatics protesting. The blustering fat fucker even got a brief interview, raving about how "important" it was for him to be there! When my friend told me this little tale a week or so later, he still wore this expression that clearly said he couldn't fucking believe his eyes, and I didn't blame him. Talk about surreal...
You can still have a pair even if they've been snipped, can't you?
Jeb is certainly qualified on the basis of neck fat alone.
the Press is out of touch. last night I saw the rerun of the GOP Newshour with Gwen Ifill. funny to watch Bobo and Shields talk about the Quagmire. Bobo kept insisting that the people who signed Conyers petition weren't "serious" people. Bobo was concerned, however, that the "serious people" were in fact concerned about the Quagmire, citing his delusional cohort, Flathead. heavy emphasis on "serious" people, as opposed to the lunatic fringe of Pelosi et. al.
Shields response: "I don't know what Tom Friedman is smoking, but where will the troops come from to double the boots on the ground?"
If things run true to form, we'll get a Democratic Congress and President who will spend their first term or so cleaning up Bush's diarrheic (sp?) messes, then usher in an era of prosperity just long enough for the Repugs to gin up a new scandal machine.
Actually, I think it's more likely that they'll *try* and fail, and be blamed for all the economic turmoil resulting from 8 years of Republican recklessness.
And of course, whatever tax-raising or other draconian measures they attempt will be used as proof once again that Democrats are tax-and-spend, big government oppressors.
In short, blame for the sins of the Republicans will be laid squarely at the feet of the Democrats.
Well so far, every viable repuke candidate mentioned will get his ass whupped by Hillary.
After the disastrous presidency of w, anyone named Bush is destined to utter defeat. Condi? Give me a break. The fundies may accept a latina as a wife of a candidate, but an African American woman as the candidate. No way. Frist? It's not so much that he is ugly (think Nixon) but that he is positively ghoulish. Plus, his ties to hospital corps will be a big minus as fewer and fewer people can afford health care.
Someone needs to tell the Republicans that wearing suits does not make them grownups.
I suppose we're fortunate that action at the hospice didn't turn violent, though it might have been an interesting spectacle: Brother Jeb frantically looking for some Florida National Guard troops who hadn't been sent to Iraq to put down a full-scale riot by the Legion of Goober.
IOKIYAR. In fact, they'll use this to pump up the Hispanic vote.
I didn't even think of that.
Big Tent, bitches!!!
Good points, but I think having a mexican first lady is gonna stick in more than a few craws.
But who knows....I have always wondered why they didn't float Jeb out first, being smart and all, and having about the same political experience and less baggage than big bro.
.
One also has to wonder why the Post waited until after the autopsy results to print this story (which clearly they did).
HarePie, right. It was cowardice, no more no less. Never once during the media extravaganza did we get the views of those inside the hospice, doing their everyday work of compassionately caring for the dying.
What was Dana Milbank's article on Rep. Conyers's hearings about? He ridiculed those of us who take the Downing Street Memos seriously. How he could watch Cindy Sheehan testify about her son, Casey, who died in a war based on a pack of lies, and write the piece he wrote is beyond me. I suppose it was CYA for not covering the memos properly when they were released. The hearings couldn't be treated seriously, because the WP didn't cover the memos in a serious way.
It's time for a hearing on blogger ethics again.
more evidence of the insurgents' last throes:
Is worst yet to come in Iraq?
Senior Bush official says insurgents likely to step up attacks as terrorists try to derail constitution, elections
BY TIMOTHY M. PHELPS AND KATIE THOMAS
STAFF WRITERS; Phelps is Washington bureau chief. The story was supplemen- ted with wire service reports.
June 17, 2005
WASHINGTON -- During a terrible week for violence in Iraq, a senior administration official yesterday warned that the worst is yet to come.
Five Marines and a sailor were killed Wednesday in attacks west of Baghdad, the U.S. military announced yesterday, a day that also brought news of a suicide bomber in Baghdad who killed at least eight police officers and wounded 25 others.
"I think you'll see it continuing up, because the terrorists know what's coming," said the official, speaking as peace demonstrators chanted outside the White House.
He said that militants are "once again trying to derail" progress in Iraq, in this case the writing of a constitution and holding of elections tentatively scheduled for later this year.
"We have a rough road ahead of us," the official said in an unusual moment of openness by the Bush administration on the war. His comments appeared aimed at preparing a public - that polls show is increasingly disillusioned by the war - for even more bad news.
...He said the administration remains convinced that its strategy is working, with progress on the political front as well as in training and equipping Iraqi soldiers to take over the fight themselves.
"There is a timeline, and we're still on it," he said.
But he came back to the new, realistic tone about Iraq.
"Nobody denies the loss of life and the carnage that is being wreaked on the Iraqi people and on us by the terrorists," he said.
Amid the violence, Iraqi lawmakers yesterday celebrated a political breakthrough: After weeks of back-and-forth, Shia politicians reached a compromise that will include Sunni Arabs, who largely boycotted January's elections, in drafting Iraq's new constitution. The stalemate over who should be allowed to draft it had threatened Iraq's political process as it was entering its final stretch, with two key nationwide votes planned for later this year: a referendum on the constitution in October and, if it passes, a general election in December.
Under the compromise announced yesterday, the new panel will include the existing members, 15 additional Sunni Arabs with full voting rights and 10 more Sunnis in an advisory, nonvoting role.
Adnan Janabi, head of a subcommittee that has been negotiating for weeks to involve more Sunnis in the process, called the compromise "the best we could reach. It was unanimously agreed upon by both sides."
But Salih Mutlak, who leads a Sunni coalition known as the National Dialogue Council, said: "We bitterly agreed on the decision. The country is in a critical situation, and if we don't agree, the political process will be delayed."
Nearly 1,100 people have died in violence since the Shia-led government took office seven weeks ago. The American deaths announced yesterday occurred in volatile Anbar province, a longtime hotspot. The Marines died after their vehicle was attacked near Ramadi, the military said. A sailor attached to the Marines' unit, the 2nd Marine Division's II Marine Expeditionary Force, was killed in Ramadi by gunfire, the military said.
In Baghdad yesterday, the suicide bomber plowed his black sedan into a truck carrying police officers on the road connecting Baghdad with its airport.
In other developments:
A judge and his bodyguard were killed by gunmen in eastern Mosul.
A roadside bomb in Mosul killed an Iraqi police officer, officials said.
Police found the bodies of 11 people in two towns in the so-called Triangle of Death area south of Baghdad, an official said.
If Jeb gets within sniffing distance of the nomination, the campaign against him should keep it real simple...how he, with all his power, went after a private citizen, and how anyone could wind up in Michael Schiavo's shoes someday, with someone like Jeb, from on high, bent on destroying them, using all the resources of his office available to him.
QL -
Frist may go for some plastic surgery.
Nixon actually looked good in his retirement years, don't you think?
Hillary will be hard to beat, if the repub is Frist, George Allen, Hagel, Romney, Jeb and so on. McCain has a chance, but can he get the nomination?
"But who knows....I have always wondered why they didn't float Jeb out first,..."
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--Kent™ Embigulator
Probably because w is easier to manipulate.
...in the so-called Triangle of Death area south of ...
I refuse to make a Barbara Bush joke here.
...He said the administration remains convinced that its strategy is working, with progress on the political front as well as in training and equipping Iraqi soldiers to take over the fight themselves.
Isn't it a sign of insanity when you keep doing the same things expecting a different outcome?
4morewars--I'm betting that a Jeb run would bring Michael Schiavo out of seclusion, and he'd go after him, full tilt boogie.
Zach W--aww, why not? Make us laugh
Isn't it a sign of insanity when you keep doing the same things expecting a different outcome?
Insane, resolute, potato, potahto...
Hillary/Clark will be a great ticket.
Also, by that time, people will be tired of wars and they want someone to fix the economy, healthcare and so on.
So '08 will be good fro Hillary.
And Clark can take care of terrorism stuff.
Lots of fun to be had with Jeb! and his piss poor record in Florida.
Mrs. Ibrahim al-Jaafari
That whole Bush family is a piece of work - drug addicts, drunks, skanks, criminals and sociopaths.
Hillary/Clark will be a great ticket.
Also, by that time, people will be tired of wars and they want someone to fix the economy, healthcare and so on.
So '08 will be good fro Hillary.
And Clark can take care of terrorism stuff.
"Clinton/Clark '08: Remember When The Country Was Run By Grown-Ups?"
That whole Bush family is a piece of work - drug addicts, drunks, skanks, criminals and sociopaths.
And that's just the twins!
Probably because w is easier to manipulate.
True, but I always thought they were taking a big chance with the lexicon mangling idiot. In fact, if the States Righters on the SCOTUS hadn't bailed his ass out...........well, you get the picture.
.
And Clark can take care of terrorism stuff.
Nah, let's leave the domestic stuff to Clark. I'm willing to bet Hillary's ovaries are bigger than Clark's balls.
Okay, that was mean-spirited and personal but --
aw fuck it, that family is destroying my world. I'm not apologizing for anything.
BJ--I wouldn't apologize, either.
Think the twins will ever hold paying, responsible jobs?
Nah, didn't think so.
You owe no apologies, BJ.
I have always wondered why they didn't float Jeb out first
Because his name wasn't George Bush. Didn't the Repubs run some focus group testing in the late 90s and W got high ratings among the right-wing faithful because they confused him with his dad?
Think the twins will ever hold paying, responsible jobs?
Yes and no...
I'm still convinced that the wingers will come out in droves to vote against Hillary. I'm also convinced that McCain would easily win if Hillary were the candidate.
Then again, I'm a Boxer/Waters booster myself.
Impeachment fever: it's spreading.
Democrats Talk Impeachment
hi moonbats
I think the longer the Iranian runoff takes the better. ya know?!
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/
...024360FCFEB.htm
BlakNo1--my dream ticket.
And what's Dudley up to this morning?
Do you think there are women -- swing voters, fence-sitters, whatever -- that would vote for Hillary just because she's a woman, i.e., to make history?
I still think a push for impeachment without public sentiment behind it would be a catastrophic mistake, especially without the cushion of a sympathetic media.
Eli--appearing in Internet porn videos does not count as a responsible job.
Thanks, folks!
And Sallyh, your question leads to some interesting ideas --
Note to any FUX execs looking for a way to pump up the ratings on The Simple Life....
Eli--i don't think we're ready for actual impeachment at this time--I think it would be impossible. Right now, we're sticking our toes in the water to see what the temperature is. I don't think anyone would run for it until public sentiment has worked in that direction to a multitude.
New on Yahoo's front page:
By THOMAS WAGNER, Associated Press Writer
13 minutes ago
LONDON - When Prime Minister Tony Blair's chief foreign policy adviser dined with Condoleezza Rice six months after Sept. 11, the then-U.S. national security adviser didn't want to discuss Osama bin Laden or al-Qaida. She wanted to talk about "regime change" in Iraq, setting the stage for the U.S.-led invasion more than a year later.
President Bush wanted Blair's support, but British officials worried the White House was rushing to war, according to a series of leaked secret Downing Street memos that have renewed questions and debate about Washington's motives for ousting Saddam Hussein.
In one of the memos, British Foreign Office political director Peter Ricketts openly asks whether the Bush administration had a clear and compelling military reason for war.
"U.S. scrambling to establish a link between Iraq and al-Qaida is so far frankly unconvincing," Ricketts says in the memo. "For Iraq, `regime change' does not stack up. It sounds like a grudge between Bush and Saddam."
When are the impeachment trials again????
Eli--appearing in Internet porn videos does not count as a responsible job.
Well, it's some kind of ____job...
No, I think they'll get some cushy do-nothing jobs with Daddy's friends' oil companies, or they could get jobs with oil lobbyists, as fluffers or something.
Dudley, wisely enough, is still sleeping.
Want to know why they waited, for the storm to blow over.
While the media could care less about public opinion and the wingnuts, they're very sensitive to the fact that most Americans got a good look at the long line of media vans, elbowing camera crews and preening personalities, not to mention the ubiqutous satellite dishes, all fronting the hospice for as far as the eye could see.
Now that is an image you don't want to evoke when the dying complain about the inconsideration of the Schiavo mess.
Res Ipsa--that depends. In the last election, the only group Bush was able to carry among women were uneducated, married Caucasian women. I don't know how large of a group they are, and if they'd be inclined to vote for a woman at all.
Do you think there are women -- swing voters, fence-sitters, whatever -- that would vote for Hillary just because she's a woman, i.e., to make history?
Not only no, but there are way too many Stepford women out there who'd vote against her just because she's a woman, or because she's Hillary "Satan" Clinton, or both.
A lotta fucked-up people in the good ol' US of A....
Eli--i don't think we're ready for actual impeachment at this time--I think it would be impossible. Right now, we're sticking our toes in the water to see what the temperature is. I don't think anyone would run for it until public sentiment has worked in that direction to a multitude.
I'd definitely like to see us try to work up the demand first, while mentioning impeachment sparingly and reluctantly, as a last resort.
Hm, that sounds kinda familiar, but I can't... quite... put my finger on it...
Blak--I always say that Dudley's a smart cat.
Think the twins will ever hold paying, responsible jobs?
The only thing they have going for them is the name "Bush", because those are two ugly-assed stupid skanky drunken bitches.
4morewars--I'm betting that a Jeb run would bring Michael Schiavo out of seclusion, and he'd go after him, full tilt boogie.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere | Email | Homepage | 06.18.05 - 12:26 pm | #
The Dems should get as many ordinary-housewife, factory-husband types as possible on camera, honestly stating their fears, the legitimate fears of all ordinary people, of what a government in the hands of malicious people can do to individuals.
Wouldn't hurt if every single one of these people on camera were from the Midwest heartland and/or the South, either. Why not? Drive the point home that NOBODY in America, no matter their political beliefs, is unwilling to stand up to the arrogance of power.
Meanwhile, Senator Frothy Mixture defends his role in the fiasco.
Speaking of the dead girl and her rotting corpse, I understand the FL's ghoul in chief is eating his way down to the genitalia.
Could someone drive a stake through his heart before he gets there and begins to speculate whether poor Terry was killed because the husband found out she was pregnant and she refused to have an abortion.
4morewars--that'd be a great strategy. Working people, disgusted with the so-called family values crowd, voicing their anger.
Sallyh ... Is that true? I was at a party on New Year's day with all these Ivy league women who quit work when they had kids and they'd all vote Bush "because of the Russian school." They were obsessed with it.
In any case, those uneducated caucasion women that vote for Bush? I'm willing to bet they weren't fence-sitters anyway.
The Dems should get as many ordinary-housewife, factory-husband types as possible on camera, honestly stating their fears, the legitimate fears of all ordinary people, of what a government in the hands of malicious people can do to individuals.
And while the pocketbook stuff is good, I think the military recruitment angle could be hugely effective as well. Make goddamn sure that everyone knows that Army recruiters are cozying up to their kids' scoutmasters and football coaches.
fourmorewars --
A wonderful, simple, easy-to-grasp and very effective idea for a compaign.
So I suppose the Dems will never do it.
Maybe you could bring it to moveon.org or a similar group?
Because I agree with you -- nothing would bring home the danger of the theocratic fascism breaking down our doors than ordinary people expressing their fears of being the next Michael Schiavo. Especially since Jeb STILL doesn't get it. Or just doesn't care.
It was as if we were all the criminals, not the nutcakes out in front.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
It's upside down-world all the time now. The sane are declared insane by the scary clowns who are fucking everything up. The anti-war crowd is declared un-American by the gansters that started an illegal war based on piles of lies and distortions. Top it all off with the GOP hysterics over the choice of language used to describe the horrible torture of prison suspects rather than the acts of torture and homicide and you have the perfect world of 1984. Of course if anyone were to point out that ChimpCo is nothing but a fascist regime, they'd be tried for treason.
How did Hillary vote on the Bankruptcy Bill? How did she vote on the Credit Card ammendments? How did she vote on the War?
the last thing the D's need to do in '08 is run a pro-Business, pro-War carpetbagger candidate.
An imperfectly-remembered Mark Twain comment comes to mind, in which he justly denounced the Roman Catholic church for repressing enlightened, progressive thought and action, then "scrambling to the head of the procession" to take credit for them once the idea takes hold and becomes generally-accepted in spite of the efforts to quash it.
I wish I could remember the specific topic and context, but I can't. At any rate, I agree with Atrios' suggestion that this is exactly what the elite media outlets do.
Instead of searching for the truth of a matter, as far as it is possible to detect and disclose, the Post and its ilk keep that finger in the air, and tack and turn according to the prevailing wind-- regardless of how rank and foul that wind may be.
To lift another anachronistic image, this time from our latter-day Twain, Kurt Vonnegut, it is like driving at top speed with one's eyes fixed on the hood ornament at all times.
Such conduct from ostensive professionals is vile and despicable at best. I doubt if it will improve, though. So I suppose we must be grateful for the occasional accidental responsible reporting, even from an unlikely source, and give credit where it's due.
Wow, that memo story didn't last long in Yahoo's front page....
Wahooo! Jeb, W, Cheney, Rumsfeld, freedom medals for all! The fuckin' loonies are running the bin!
And while the pocketbook stuff is good, I think the military recruitment angle could be hugely effective as well.
I finally saw the new Army recruitment commercials. Whoever said they are now directly appealing to parents got it right. It's all about trying to make parents believe that the Army will turn their bratty teenagers into responsible, respectful (think Wally Cleaver)young adults (and nevermind the possibility of death or dismemberment).
I'd definitely like to see us try to work up the demand first, while mentioning impeachment sparingly and reluctantly, as a last resort.
Forget about impeachment. It works against us. Too many bad memories about Clinton. Better to use all the bad news about lies and deception to drive Republican approvals down, and negatives up.
The smell of fear is in the air over at the House. Another big setback and we could see a turnover next year, and they know it. Over reaching on impeachment makes Dems look too much like the Republicans who created the mess we're in.
Ah, sorry, 4MW - I'm kinda locked into What's Wrong With Kansas mode, so I automatically thought economic self-interest. I still think the recruiter angle is important, though.
Res Ipsa--I'm not sure I live in a part of the country where you can always take a pulse accurately. LA is very blue, and you don't find many single-earner families here--just too freaking expensive.
there are way too many Stepford women out there who'd vote against her just because she's a woman, or because she's Hillary "Satan" Clinton, or both.
Those women are exurban mega-church going chumps who think their over-priced megamansion is an ATM. Wait til hubby's job moves to Bangalore, interest rates go up, and they're upside down in their mortgages - even still, they'd vote for Rethugs because, well, a democrat might allow gay marriage.
(and nevermind the possibility of death or dismemberment)
Hey, at least the dead ones don't talk back!
No, really, I'm in a good mood today, really I am...
I finally saw the new Army recruitment commercials. Whoever said they are now directly appealing to parents got it right. It's all about trying to make parents believe that the Army will turn their bratty teenagers into responsible, respectful (think Wally Cleaver)young adults (and nevermind the possibility of death or dismemberment).
The one where Dad is so proud of his son for shaking his hand and looking him in the eye?
Fucking ugh.
Dana Milbank is a freeper-
just sayin'
Mornin, freethinkers
Mrs. Ibrahim al-Jaafari:
Hillary voted against the bankruptcy bill. She didn't have a say on cloture. But, yeah... I don't trust her either.
We as parents are not buying into the new wave of commercials the military has out there.
Wish me luck on Monday. I'm visiting a district where I'm not supposed to criticize the military. I'm going to do it anyway. It's too important.
Forget about impeachment. It works against us. Too many bad memories about Clinton. Better to use all the bad news about lies and deception to drive Republican approvals down, and negatives up.
The smell of fear is in the air over at the House. Another big setback and we could see a turnover next year, and they know it. Over reaching on impeachment makes Dems look too much like the Republicans who created the mess we're in.
Believe me, I actually agree completely. But if it's a foregone conclusion that impeachment is the way the Dems want to go (and I don't think it is yet), they have to at least be smart about it.
A large part of the reason the Clinton impeachment backfired so badly is that there was virtually no demand for it.
Mornin' Rip.
.
Not to mention that it was an incredibly trivial, unserious thing to try to impeach a president for. Unlike, say, lying us into a disastrous war.
I finally saw the new Army recruitment commercials. Whoever said they are now directly appealing to parents got it right. It's all about trying to make parents believe that the Army will turn their bratty teenagers into responsible, respectful (think Wally Cleaver)young adults (and nevermind the possibility of death or dismemberment).
TJ
Jeebus, there's enough troubles in the military right now without trying to make it the new Nanny 911.
Wait til hubby's job moves to Bangalore, interest rates go up, and they're upside down in their mortgages
i was reading something yesterday that was saying look for 2006-07 to be the time period for the financial meltdown that's hovering. that's when these interest only payments start to kick in with the principal due.
It's all about trying to make parents believe that the Army will turn their bratty teenagers into responsible, respectful (think Wally Cleaver)young adults..
Spare me. If the army thinks that Mr. & Mrs. McMansion are going to send little "Chase" or "Carter" or "Taylor" off to Iraq to get his face shot off the army is deluding itself.
The one where Dad is so proud of his son for shaking his hand and looking him in the eye?
Yep, that's it. Fucking ugh is right.
Hope the Dems are smarter than that, bj, but Moveon certainly would pick up any ball they dropped. Reid appears to have an eye for the telling point, as far as that goes.
Eli, no kidding on the recruitment angle.
Cya later, keep the trollspray handy.
Jeebus, there's enough troubles in the military right now without trying to make it the new Nanny 911.
Jeebus is right! Good one, stinky.
.
"Jeb! is a Catholic. Believes in the supremacy of the Pope. Worships the Roman AntiChrist.
How can any god-fearing Merikan Protestant Christian vote for a Papist,..."
Just this week there was a blurb in the paper that the Pope's highest priority is to heal the rift between Catholics and the Xtian fundies.
And remember that Ratzinger and Jebbie met a few years ago in Europe--we don't know what was discussed, but expect the new Pope, Benedict Arnold, to come out in full support of Jebbie.
I'm askeered, are you?
I think if we're still electing presidents in 2008 it will be Kerry by a landslide.
BKNY--wouldn't surprise me. I just hope we can swing the 2006 elections in the other direction.
I say that because at this time, all the normal laws of cause and effect appear to have been suspended, and I think we'll really have to work to get good candidates out there and taking seats away from the rightie whities.
In my humble bumble
Re: Hillary's votes in Congress (playing moneyed side of the aisle when the vote wouldn't make a difference?)
Hillary and Bill are Politicians with a capital P., and that's a good thing. They are on the side of the people when it comes down to it.
(besides first lady Bill Clinton is maybe what the world needs)
I think if we're still electing presidents in 2008
You mean if we go back to electing presidents, don't you? 
Sometimes you want to just grab these foolish, deluded souls and either shake them very hard or cave their heads in with a baseball bat. My dad was under hospice care for the last year of his life and I would literally lay my life down for the excellent people who staff hospice and those who volunteer. The fascist scum like Delay don't deserve to be on the same planet as them.
(besides first lady Bill Clinton is maybe what the world needs)
Yeah, but damn, he scared me the other night on "Letterman" and then the next day on "Franken." He sounded just like my dad when he was really ill. I was afraid we'd lose him. I wish he would take the summer off and rest. The guy got out of bed campaigned for Kerry 6 weeks after that surgery and then goes jetting off to Indonesia and all over the place.
Joel--I'm sorry about your dad. I'm grateful that he had hospice care that allowed him a peaceful end.
I agree about the workers and volunteers in hospice. It's extremely demanding and difficult work. How they can do it with creeps all around them is beyond me.
I'm askeered, are you?
given that it was Catholic voters in NM, CO, and FL who gave the election to Chimpy, yes, very scared.
which is why stirring up the latent anti-Catholicism of the fundies is a job for the Swift Boat Liars for Jeb! attack attack attack, and replay endlessly the anti-Catholic statements of Dobson and Falwell in Catholic heavy districts of FL, CO, and NM.
Believe me, I actually agree completely. But if it's a foregone conclusion that impeachment is the way the Dems want to go (and I don't think it is yet), they have to at least be smart about it.
A large part of the reason the Clinton impeachment backfired so badly is that there was virtually no demand for it.
Dems, smart? That's an oxymoron. Even the gooss-stepping Republicans couldn't get it right. The rag-tag coaltions that make up the historical Democratic Party are probably not capable of being smart about it. That would mean putting Barney Frank in charge.
I think the worst thing we having going against us is John Conyers, Maxine Waters, Dennis K. and in a different context, Pelosi. Although I respect what the first three are trying to do, the public perception of them is not good. We won't win back a majority with that segment of the party fronting us I'm afraid, and I largely agree with most of what they have to say. It's simply a PR thing.
So, if they lead the charge I think we're doomed. Clinton's impeachment was so unseemly, and the Reps had a majority in the House. I don't think the country would stand for it absent a wholesale disaster in Iraq. They'd punish the prosecutors.
Similarly, I have little doubt that the Machiavellists in the WH are capable of turning a blind eye to a terrorists attack if they felt it would help secure their hold on power by undermining the "President's war on terror."
Mrs. Ibrahim--I'd read over at Crooks and Liars the other day that Catholic support for Bush has dropped sharply. Those of us who are Catholic, however uncertain we are in our beliefs, need to drive that spike into the ground.
bj -- Yeah, that's more accurate. But I think if we're conducting elections in 2008 they will be relatively honest ones. And if that's the case it will because we have passed through such a crucible of truth-telling that voters will be thirsting for a mature and dignified president to represent who we are to the world. And that's Kerry.
W has a big lock on the wh gate and doesn't have to answer 560,000 petitions to reply to a letter from congress.
sallyh,
i'm actually beginning to feel good about 2006 prospects for dems. what with the dukester's troubles and the assorted scandals that are just beginning to sink in to the public (the exxon guy rewriting enviro studies; the tobacco giveback). people don't know the details, but they are certainly picking up the whiff of utter lying and corruption that permeates this administration.
"One also has to wonder why the Post waited until after the autopsy results to print this story..."
They did not know which version of their story to report until the autopsy results were known.
BTW folks... impeachment, even of Dubya, = bad.
It just looks like you're trying to undo an election. It hurt the Repgs when they tried it against Clinton and we should be above that. Winning in 2008 is a better long term bet, I think. Impeachments, though sanctioned and, in my opininion, justified against out current President, seem to most people to be "outside of our Democracy." Absent something as blatant as what Nixon's CREEP did, there's so much ambiguity that it makes an impeachment look like a coup.
BP--excellent point of view. Thanks.
Similarly, I have little doubt that the Machiavellists in the WH are capable of turning a blind eye to a terrorists attack if they felt it would help secure their hold on power by undermining the "President's war on terror."
I think they've kinda proven that already...
Eli -- "But if it's a foregone conclusion that impeachment is the way the Dems want to go (and I don't think it is yet), they have to at least be smart about it.
A large part of the reason the Clinton impeachment backfired so badly is that there was virtually no demand for it"
D'accord. The terrain for the battle is still being laid. We've a long way to go.
by undermining the "President's war on terror."
errata: By creating the appearance of the Dems undermining the WOT.
Yeah, that's more accurate. But I think if we're conducting elections in 2008 they will be relatively honest ones.
Really? I fear that election reform has gone the way of campaign finance reform - indifferently backed, and riddled with exploitable loopholes whenever it does get passed. If we don't get some serious, hard-nosed reform, clean elections will become a quaint anachronism.
Mike M--there's a lot more evidence and public support that needs to be gathered to gain that kind of momentum.
And Bush was not elected. It's almost mathematically impossible that that occurred. There is no election to undo.
A large part of the reason the Clinton impeachment backfired so badly is that there was virtually no demand for it"
calls and emails to Sen. Roberts of the Intelligence committee is what Joe Wilson recommends.
Wish me luck on Monday. I'm visiting a district where I'm not supposed to criticize the military. I'm going to do it anyway. It's too important.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
We've got a big brouhaha in Seattle with parents protesting recruiters in high schools. Be prepared for an angry onslaught of "our volunteer military fought for your right to speak out and protest blah blah blah." and "Go back to Russia!" and so on.
The military does offer great opportunities for schooling and career, but the reality is that a lof of times, it doesn't. Especially now with a bloody war going on in the Middle East.
With combat-wounded being forced to pay for their own meals and phone calls at Walter Reed, the chances of some kid getting a $40k scholarship to play drums in a military band are between slim and none - and slim's out of town, as my dad would say.
"The smell of fear is in the air over at the House. Another big setback and we could see a turnover next year, and they know it. Over reaching on impeachment makes Dems look too much like the Republicans who created the mess we're in.
BP"
Agreed. dems can't on one hand be calling for the truth to come out, and impeachment on the other...just as you can't claim airing the dsm is non-political and then doing your best to make it so.
Focusing on impeachment turns this into a partisan affair, and I think that's the wrong move at this time.
And IF anything is gonna come of this, dems have got to stop with the missteps. Durbin's comments stepped all over the Conyers hearing, which is probably just as well when it's reported that antisemetic literature was being passed out.
I see Jeb Bush and I see manna from Heaven. He reminds me of that old Tubes relic "White Punks on Dope," the pertinent line being, "gonna hang myself when I get enough rope."
His pandering on the Schiavo theme is makes him the quintessential "have you no shame" symbol for the Republican Party. I'd like to see the Dems turn him and his efforts into the reason Americans should vote Democrat in 2006.
It hurt the Repgs when they tried it against Clinton and we should be above that.
We are above that. The repukes blew it because they were trying to get Clinton out of office on a trivial offence. Lying about a war that has gotten well over 1,700 soldiers killed and 100,000's of Iraqis killed and horribly injured is hardly a trite matter, as, say a few blow jobs. It's a ridiculous comparason. Bu$h is destroying our country and shaming everything we stand for.
Stinky--what I do is talk to young women about scientific careers. Most of them are poor, and financing education is a huge issue for them. The military as a means to pay for college inevitably rises. Some districts require you to leave that open as an option when you talk to them. However, right now it's a terrible option, and I plan to make that clear.
As someone who's active in LeaveMyChildAlone, i think I have a responsibility to be truthful with the kids.
This is a good and very well written article. Makes you wonder if other journalist tried, they could also write good and informative articles. Yes, I am surprised at how good the article is. I am surprised it was published at all. And that is one of the saddest things I can think of, that the media is so capable and yet so indifferent to truth.
If the constitution calls for impeachment when the president lies to congress then it must happen.
In defense of Paris Hilton -- and Goddess, I thought I'd never say that since I personally find her rather disgusting and without her connections, money, and all the accoutrements that can buy, I think she'd just be thought of as some skinny, weasel-faced skank by most people who wouldn't give her a second thought -- but, unlike the Bush Twins, she does at least work (though it is more as a hobby than as, like the rest of us, making a living). The "value" of her work might be open to question, but since one of my best Dem friends is a working actor who makes his living doing commercials and small parts in TV and films, I consider it work. I've never seen The Simple Life, but once again, unlike the Bush Twins, she has at least experienced something that isn't part of her priviledged existence. And she was Marshal (or whatever you call it) of the Gay Pride Parade. To sum it up, I can only express my ambivalence thusly:
The Hilton Sisters: Not as bad as the Bush Sisters
Wish me luck on Monday. I'm visiting a district where I'm not supposed to criticize the military. I'm going to do it anyway. It's too important.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
Think what you're going to say through _very carefully_ Sally. Turn your statement into a talking point (brief, positive and concise), then stay on message, particularly if you expect antipathy.
BP -- I disagree. The black caucus is playing a terribly important role in this. Many in the African American community are being forced to ask themselves what's more important: a party that opposes gay marriage and abortion or one that thumbs its nose at longest-sitting black representatives Congress.
The black caucus needs acknowledgment from Pelosi and others, but having them tactically launch the first salvos is exactly right.
John Bonifaz, who laid out the Constitutional questions and the process, beginnning with the Resolution of Inquiry, is also the founding director of the National Voting Rights Institute and as such, the attorney for the still-waging recount fraud case here in Ohio. In the black community, what happened here is viewed as a neverending effort to restrict minority voting rights. Minority and voting rights advocates are trying to link those issues with BushCo's lies about the Iraq war -- as well they should.
Why has no one on the good guys' side come out with a public statement about the misguided (at best) nature of the FL Governor's call for a criminal investigation of of one of his constituants on the shakiest of pieces of so-called "new evidence", which is neither?
BP--what I'm going to say is, they provide educational benefits, but you have to weigh the risks against them. Right now it's a risky proposition, so think really carefully.
And Bush was not elected. It's almost mathematically impossible that that occurred. There is no election to undo.
If we still had an INDEPENDENT council that would fully and fairly look into both elections and the phoney evidence used to invade Iraq there would be no choice BUT to impeach Bu$h. For crying out loud, if you can't be impeached for stealing elections and starting phoney wars, what is the point of having the option?
She's one of us!
http://www.azcentral.com/arizona...pinions/benson/
Pope Benedict Arnold?
Hey, I kind of like that. Should I switch over from "Ratzi the Nazi?"
So many decisions to make these days . . .
Clinton/Clarke 2008: Because now we know competence does matter!
cs: The black caucus is playing a terribly important role in this.
I agree, but Maxine Waters, John Conyers and that segment of the party are too compromised by public perception. They are not who we want pointing our political spear. We don't even want give the Republicans the opportunity to say that they are. That stops us dead in our tracks, and they would probably agree with that assessment, although excessive ego isn't the exclusive domain of Republicanism.
For crying out loud, if you can't be impeached for stealing elections and starting phoney wars, what is the point of having the option?
bigvic -- 1:25 pm
public relations, vic...it looks good to pretend there's an option to throw out real crooks and criminals...it keeps the Sheeple complacent and compliant,...
As someone who's active in LeaveMyChildAlone, i think I have a responsibility to be truthful with the kids.
Sallyh, La Poissoniere
I absolutely agree, and completely agree that someone needs to be honest with kids about what the military is really about.
Back to "grammar" school for me.
Sally... sounds good to me. Make sure your political "slip" isn't showing when you offer that sage advice, however.
They are not who we want pointing our political spear.
why not? how are they compromised?
cuz they're black? 'special interests'?
fuck, man, the black caucus is just about the only organization in DC with any stones at fucking all--and i exclude Young Yaller Obama from that group with reason...
I don't think our country can survive until '08 if Bush is not impeached. The entire operation of the Repub. majority in power is to rape this country dry of all resources, sell off for pennies on the dollar government operations that should be government operations, so on and so forth. The groundswell of support for impeachment should lead to a Democratic majority in '06, with full impeachment hearings following. With a Democratic majority in the house, and impeachment of Bush AND Cheney, the line of succession puts the Speaker of The House next in line. President Pelousi ?
BP -- I'm not sure what you're trying to say. What portion of "the public perception" are you talking about?
IMO, you front Waters, Conyers or Kucinich as the voice and direction of the Democratic Party and we won't win any of the next four election cycles.
They're too much on record. The Republican PR machine would beat us to death with them. You think the SBVFT stuff was mean. They'd make that look like just another Winnie the Pooh bedtime story.
WoodyGuthriesGuitar (aka...) -- Thank you! Anyone who doesn't think black folk and white folk who support them aren't familiar with meetings held in cramped, basement rooms, that scenes like Conyers' hearing don't resonate with us, is historically naive and doesn't realize that the audience Conyers, Waters, Bonifaz, etc., are trying to reach.
Forget about impeachment. It works against us.
Yeah, I think it's just bad political strategy, for the same reason I want Delay to twist in the wind for a long time... if it worked, people would think that the bad GOPers were gone & they'd be safe voting for the ones who survived, and if it didn't, it would make Dubya into a victim & backfire on us, as you said. I want GWB to hang around, with every proposal failing, immobilized by scandal, and most importantly, hanging like a millstone around the neck of every congressional & gubernatorial Republican. The whole party needs to be ruined by their corruption, deceit, and lousy policies, and that means keeping it all at the forefront indefinitely. Sometimes swift, principled actions don't do enough to prevent future crises... better to let this stuff bubble up slowly IMO.
With Jeb Bush looking into prosecuting Michael Schiavo, it is so obvious that these Rethugs are incapable of admitting they are wrong about anything. Don't get in their way, or call them "wrong" or they will go to any lengths to keep the battle going, and even more people will get hurt. Isn't it strange how many propective candidates for 2008 are involved in this? They will never stop playing to the fundies.
BP -- I think you're being a bit myopic. For one thing, Kucinich's positions on Iraq during the primaries are the ones that actually make sense, more so every day. And if you notice, Kucinich is not front and center on this . . .
Again, much of what's happening now is part of a strategy of determining the battleground.
You may be afraid of the swiftboaters; I'm not. I think we're seeing great strategy unfold between a bunch of gamers on the right and real warriors on our side.
I don't think impeachment has the chance of a snowball in hell with the Republicans owning all branches of the government, but I think hearings like the one Conyers had are a good thing. I learned by watching them, and maybe a few others did too. It keeps attention focused on all the bad stuff perpetrated by the Bush administration.
I think we're seeing great strategy unfold between a bunch of gamers on the right and real warriors on our side.
cs, you're right. Isn't it time that Dems showed some fight? Remember, we're fighting terra, and we have to look strong. Impeachment will very likely not happen, but the fight is good, and I am proud of the House members who are part of this.
janeboatler -- Yes, it is. What troubles me are folks who see it as tilting at windmills instead of larger strategy. We have been so honed to just react in a panic or a whirl of criticism over whatever our leaders say and do.
BP -- I think you're being a bit myopic. For one thing, Kucinich's positions on Iraq during the primaries are the ones that actually make sense
Since when does making sense get anyone elected?
That said, I'm moderate averse. I think the Dems moderate positioning is just about as bad strategically. It's more of the filibuster agreement kind of stuff, weak and ineffective cosmetic solutions instead of the real deal.
Or, as Bill Walsh once said of an early quarterback, they "play[s] just well enough to get you beat."
The Dems have to position themselves as the party of the responsible, head of household adults IMO. It's classic Roosevelt stuff.
Clinton had it, but he fucked us when he fucked with Monica. We're still paying for that one.
Dean just about had it in the primaries, whether he won or not, but the media fucked him with the yell. He's since added to the yell perception IMO.
That was Kerry's appeal too. Absent some unnecessary hesitation and missteps, not to mention the 9/11 fears, Kerry would be president.
I don't think 9/11 plays the same way in the next congressional cycle, however, as poll number seem to indicate.
The Dems have to position themselves as the party of the responsible, head of household adults IMO. It's classic Roosevelt stuff.
BP, are you sent from the DLC? Sorry, I can't agree; look where trying to be safe and responsible has got us. The media will smear us anyway. Not that we should be irresponsible, but if you can't mention the word "impeachment" about this administration, then you can never mention it.
White people are fucked-up.
look where trying to be safe and responsible has got us.
Who said anything about safe? That aside, what do you propose as an alternative to responsible leadership?
I don't think there's anything wrong with the responsible-adult approach, as long as it's the stronger, righteous-anger version... "how dare you" instead of "I'm disappointed." It can be done without bullying & hypocrisy.
what do you propose as an alternative to responsible leadership?
I said that we should not be irresponsible. "Responsible" has connotations of "careful" and "safe" to me. I'm looking for boldness, a fighting spirit. Has any administration been more irresponsible than this administration? They won!
It's about the issues we choose to put first, issues voters care about, and about framing the issues in a simple, punchy way. It's about playing the game in a way that is smart. We have got to change our game plan. We are on the right side in all the important issues, but our gamesmanship is poor. I'm sorry, "responsible" doesn't work for me. Remember the "war on terra". We have to look tough. It's not that we don't have to be responsible; it's that defining ourselves that way is not the path to electoral victory in these times.
I said that we should not be irresponsible. "Responsible" has connotations of "careful" and "safe" to me. I'm looking for boldness, a fighting spirit!
Well, that's why invoked Roosevelt. You sure can't call the New Deal safe. He was very careful too, however. I like that. Of course, the only way he could make that happen was with by instilling the belief that a responsible "head-of-household" adult had taken charge, that an a Democrat congress.
Of course, he was that responsible adult and his policies reflected the care and consideration of all family members much we expect from the head of household.
Those fireside chats went a long way towards changing the course of American social policy, and soothing a substantial segment of the population that was nearing the brink of it's patience. Rich and priviledged as he was, people rightly beleived that he had their best interests at heart.
It may be too soon for that, assuming there's a leader of his caliber out there (and that's one big assumption). Big movements in social policy often require troubled times. My sense is we're still walking the tightrope. Time is against us, however.
Those are my opinions anyway...
Mike Schiavo should sue Jeb Bush for impugning his character.
Mike Schiavo should sue Jeb Bush for impugning his character.
I like him better in the role of martyr. It's a dirty job, and with no end of travail. But, the public was disgusted by the Repbulican Schiavo circus, and Jeb was the ringleader.
If Jeb and friends are seen as mean-spirited losers vindictively persecuting the husband, well you can stick a fork in them because they'll be just about done.
The Terri Schiavo case is not the first time the Right wing has been wrong about a medical issue in Florida. In this case, it involved false testimony, a tragic young woman, and brought out a chorus of homophobes who did nothing but distort the case. Kimberly Bergalis was a young woman in Florida who alleged that her dentist, Dr. David Acer, had given her AIDS. She won a million dollar lawsuit against his estate. Jesse Helms thundered in the Senate and all over the country about the public health threat of homosexual medical practitioners. After her death in 1991 she had parks and streets in Florida named in her memory. Unfortunately, her autopsy revealed she had contracted a number of sexually transmitted diseases, none of them from Dr. Acer. Kimberly Bergalis got AIDS the old-fashioned way, by having unprotected sex with an infected partner. Yet, most of the country still believes she died an innocent virgin, infected and killed by her gay dentist. She and her circle of friends practiced anal and oral sex as a means of protecting against pregnancy. Maybe she took the abstinence pledge, so like Bill Clinton, she did not technically have sex. Shouldn’t her family return the money?
Most of the people protesting at the hospice were, as they are rightly called by the hospice's chaplain, extremists. Many were clearly, by many standards, nuts. Opinion polls were overwhelmingly against them,
They're the same bottom feeders who protest outside family planning clinics.
I always think "Don't they have jobs? Don't they have lives? Don't they have families of their own - or did their families get sick of their sanity and tell them to get fucked?"
SOrry - did their families get sick of their INSANITY
Kimberly Bergalis was a young woman in Florida who alleged that her dentist, Dr. David Acer, had given her AIDS. She won a million dollar lawsuit against his estate. Jesse Helms thundered in the Senate and all over the country about the public health threat of homosexual medical practitioners. After her death in 1991 she had parks and streets in Florida named in her memory. Unfortunately, her autopsy revealed she had contracted a number of sexually transmitted diseases, none of them from Dr. Acer. Kimberly Bergalis got AIDS the old-fashioned way, by having unprotected sex with an infected partner
CT, I never KNEW that!
That fucking lying bitch.
White people are fucked-up.
Miles
Charming...and your POINT is?
"It is a callous, arrogant, defiant act by a stubborn governor who can't accept facts at odds with his own views."
That's a family trait.
They can't be wrong!
It hurt the Repgs when they tried it against Clinton and we should be above that.
We are above that. The repukes blew it because they were trying to get Clinton out of office on a trivial offence. Lying about a war that has gotten well over 1,700 soldiers killed and 100,000's of Iraqis killed and horribly injured is hardly a trite matter, as, say a few blow jobs. It's a ridiculous comparason. Bu$h is destroying our country and shaming everything we stand for.
bigvic
Hear hear, vic!
Hospice workers have the worst job in the world. Those who do good work under those conditions are truly saints, if saints there be.
The Washington Post should have published more about the work of hospices, the sheer volume of patients in hospice care, and the bitter fact that many of us will want hospice care before we leave this world.
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