I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Refresh and presso!
"If there was a need presented." Priceless.
Oh, and Frist?
As was frequently said by the politically incorrect of the Civil War "It's a rich man's war, and a poor man's fight."
You know, there's a sick logic to it- if you really think that criticism of the war is worse than poor military planning, then it would make more sense to stay behind and work on slanderous political campaigns than to actually pick up a gun. Captain Rove struck a blow for America this week- give him a silver star.
This is why I can almost get behind Rangel's concept for a draft.
Poor kids go and get their arms and legs blown off, while Viv and Chris get to sit on their asses at Young Republicans conventions and not get their shoes dirty.
I think they should have the next Young Repubs convention in Tikrit. Might open their eyes and put a thought in their pretty, empty heads.
BRAAAAAWWWWWWKKK!!! BRAAAAAAAWWWWWKKKK!!!
Cluck cluck cluck...
"dire troop shortage"
I thought we already had one of those.
"another September 11"
just one isn't good enough for you?
Maybe they can get some quotes from WWII vets who waited til there was 'another Pearl Harbor' before they signed up.
No doubt the chickenhawks blame their problem on "chemical imbalances." I'm sure, according to the research papers I've read, with the proper exercise and vitamins the U.S. military can supply, the chickenhawks can become real clear just like the "Admiral."
And the shade of Pat Tillman weeps. . . .
Poor kids go and get their arms and legs blown off, while Viv and Chris get to sit on their asses at Young Republicans conventions and not get their shoes dirty.
BTW, just for clarity's sake, that story isn't from the current College Brownshirt convention... it actually came out last summer.
The sentiments, however, are timeless!
And that was almost a year ago. Imagine their enthusiasm now that the "insurgency" is in its "last throes." Heh.
I diaried over at Kos about a group of College Republicans that are serving their country by--staging a Social Security paperwork shredding festival on the Capitol Steps.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/20...6/25/9326/
40316
The group calls itself nonpartisan and accepts contributions without any FEC disclosure information. Everyone involved has a connection to either the Young Republicans or the College Republicans.
I hate reading this freakin' story. Mostly because with some variations in spelling, the 17-year-old halfwit shares part of my actual name.
Oh, BTW, my previous remarks don't apply to guys who play Top Guns in the movies.
This young women is hollow.
"As long as there's a steady stream of volunteers, I don't see why I necessarily should volunteer," said Lee, who has a cousin deployed in the Middle East.
And her excuse now is....?
Baghdad-A suicide car bomb and ensuing small-arms fire killed at least two Marines, and four others were missing and presumed dead. At least one woman was killed and 11 of 13 wounded were female.
The attack was on a convoy taking women Marines to checkpoints where they pat down Iraqi women. I think this is the largest incidence of casualty of females since WWII.
"If there was a need presented, I would go," said Chris Cusmano, a 21-year-old member of the College Republicans organization from Rocky Point, N.Y. But he said he hasn't really considered volunteering.
Hey, Chris. Here's a need. WE ARE LOSING TO THE INSURGENTS.
Now will you consider volunteering?
Uh-huh, uh-huh. Thought so.
Somewhere in Iraq, al-quaida operatives monitor american newspapers.
Why do these Young Republicans give aid and comfort to the enemy with their seditious statements to the press? If they will not set an example, and join, how will we win?
Obviously, due to these statements, the evil doers know that they can wait out the occupation, oops!.. liberation of Iraq.
Why do the Young Republicans hate America so much that make statements meant to give aid and comfort to the enemy?
I'm talkin' cheap chocolate easter bunny hollow, an empty shell. What kind of parents, schools, churches, raise vacuous nits like these?
I esp. like this prick:
"I'm in college right now, but who knows?" said Matthew Vail, a 25-year-old from Huntsville, Ala., who works with Students for Bush. He said he might consider enlisting after he finishes his degree at the University of North Carolina, but not until then.
"The bug may get me after college," he said.
"Until then, let the lower classes die for my stupid opinions. Now watch this drive!"
Here is the link to the "Conventioneer" that is inside the young republicans convention doing undercover. Interesting read (for a slow day of news).
That little prick Cusmano is an outright coward.
Just like his Dear Leader.
Face it, war is fun when your contribution is running the Fox News Fan Club.
Breaking News:
Benjamin 'Virgin Ben' Shapiro has just announced that in order to show his personal solidarity with the fighting men and women in Afghanistan and Iraq, he will consent to lose his virginity with a female member of the US Armed Forces.
However, Mr. Shapiro did add one slight qualification: "She's got to have big boobs and at least a decent face and body", he cautioned. "I don't want it to be with some bowser like that Lyndie Englund."
Who says chivalry is dead?
..
I suppose it comes from reading they NYT too early in the morning:
With polls showing that Americans' support for the war in Iraq is declining, Mr. Bush's insistence that he will stay the course sets up a delicate political task for Tuesday night, when the president has asked the major networks to broadcast a prime-time address from Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, N.C. The speech is timed to mark the first anniversary of the end of the American occupation and the transfer of power to the Iraqis.
But does this make any sense? "End of the occupation?" "Transfer of power?"
Are we really supposed to be that stupid?
OT: Lavender
If anyone happens to need distraction, today, the annual Corrales Lavendar Festival is today, in the big field behind the Rec Center, across from the Farmers' Market...ceteris paribus, the fellow in the long white beard making the public announcements over the PA system will be yours truly.
have a good day, and if you see a young republican, trip the slimy little fucker under a bus!@!@!@
There's really some hope for the future in this. Cowardice is a short step from pacifism.... What was shocking to me, and still is, is the lack of imagination war supporters have, or lack of sympathy, that they couldn't put themselves in Iraqis' place as we shock 'n' awed them with our gigantic bombs. Or that they can't even imagine the fear our own troops must feel, or the pain of having their legs blown off, or the mess that killing people makes of your psyche....
L.-F. Céline said something like, "For people with no imagination, the thought of death is no big thing. For one with an imagination, it's too much."
Can imagination be taught? Can compassion?
Peace.
Are we really supposed to be that stupid?- Rmj, Wandering Aengus
Considering the state of affairs in this country, sure seems that way.
Are we really supposed to be that stupid?
What? I don't see any problem with what the NYT says, it is, in fact, the paper of record. And that Judith can really write...
"If there was a need presented, I would go," said Chris Cusmano, a 21-year-old member of the College Republicans organization from Rocky Point, N.Y. But he said he hasn't really considered volunteering.
I guess George W. Bush saying repeatedly "Our nation is at WAR! See...WAR...And I'm the WARTIME preznit, see?" hasn't sunk in with the Kinder Kollege Korner crowd.
I wonder what would constitute a need to join the military, since apparently Mr. Cusmano doesn't consider war a pressing issue.
RMJ - Bush will approach and all but speak of the beginning of troop withdrawals. He will allege that we've turned a corner, of course, and do more dancing in the direction of bringing troops home and then, he won't. In other words he will lie Tuesday and continue to lie Wednesday and from then forward, lie more.
Polls show the majority of the country, not Dems, not Republics - everyone - want to wind this war down. Bush will respond to that Tuesday. But he'll be lying.
f'n shit. is our childrens learning?
i had been helping a guy install carpet. he's sort of a pro war liberal, redneck hippie, hell i don't know.
a garrulous type, said one day he was talking to a 18 year old female store clerk who excitedly told him how she was joining the gaurd, all the advantages it would provide her. he pointed out that she would no doubt be deployed to iraq. her response "no the recruiter said that would not happen"
i think it's time for some of these "smarter" boys and girls to step up and bite the bullet.
better yet, maybe some of these older pro war intellectuals who couldn't find either end of a gun, who dodged vietnam, but plunged us into this fiasco could suit up.
If I were the Kingngngngg of the Forrrrreeeeesssttuh
Well it's been 10 months since those young repubs so charitably expressed themselves. Anyone contact them recently to see if they have had a change of heart?
"no the recruiter said that would not happen"
Is that the "low hanging fruit" they speak of?
I'm talkin' cheap chocolate easter bunny hollow, an empty shell. What kind of parents, schools, churches, raise vacuous nits like these?
cs
a post by gimlet in one of the lower open threads as edited by WGG.
Mr. President America's youth idolize you and the VP. When they consider both yours and the VP's service record for the Vietnam years they see no reason to put themselves in harm's way in a combat zone.
They also see how foolish Sen. Kerry was to risk life and limb and be trashed for it later along with Sen. McCain who according to your campaign suffered a nervous breakdown as a POW and never fully recovered.
What do you say to America's youth to get them to enlist?
It does prove the claim that the ones who do go are our best and brightest.
These asshats can't hold a candle to the kids who actually serve.
Charley - I spent Thursday night trying to help an 18-year old girl talk her 19-year old boyfriend out of enlisting. He was promised a "non-deployable" Reserves unit. Eventually I appealed to the Atriots to help me supply her with persuasive arguments and for a few minutes, we had the kid posting and reading here. We did DELAY his imminent enlistment and make him promise to TAKE HIS DAD with him to the recruiter's office. He's had one year of college, can't afford the second and can't really think of what to do next but join. For all these college Repubs who have better things to do, there are still teenagers with no further imagination of their future than what happens tomorrow, and recruiters will find them.
Drinking Robitussin and playing with my GI Joe dolls doesn't count?
"I'm talkin' cheap chocolate easter bunny hollow, an empty shell. What kind of parents, schools, churches, raise vacuous nits like these?"
Born again parents living in the exurbs, driving their SUVs and living in their McMansions, who believe the stock market will save them. I have a few in my classes. It takes a great deal of self-restraint not to lay into them daily.
"Frankly, I want to be a politician. I'd like to survive to see that," said Vivian Lee, 17, a war supporter visiting the convention from Los Angeles.
In the coming decades, your political future will be determined by whether you supported (as yet undetermined) plans to bring troops home, supported increased and enhanced benefits for vets, or actually served.
What do you say to America's youth to get them to enlist?
Re-release "Top Gun?"
Lee said she supports the war but would volunteer only if the United States faced a dire troop shortage or "if there's another Sept. 11."
What, the first Sept. 11 wasn't big enough for ya?
a post by gimlet in one of the lower open threads as edited by WGG.
Mr. President America's youth idolize you and the VP. When they consider both yours and the VP's service record for the Vietnam years they see no reason to put themselves in harm's way in a combat zone.
They also see how foolish Sen. Kerry was to risk life and limb and be trashed for it later along with Sen. McCain who according to your campaign suffered a nervous breakdown as a POW and never fully recovered.
What do you say to America's youth to get them to enlist?
We should send these questions to every member of the press corps. Indeed, after the way Kerry was villified for his service, why would anyone enlist. Indeed, why would anyone admit to earning a purple heart?
"Frankly, I want to be a politician. I'd like to survive to see that," said Vivian Lee, 17, a war supporter visiting the convention from Los Angeles"
I can see it all now, Vivian will be the Republican politician distancing herself in front of the cameras from the Humvee Veterans for Truth group out slandering her opponent's honorable service in Iraq. Looking forward to it.
One of the things that galls me most is Rumsfeld's smugly arrogant and totally unapologetic demeanor. I mean, the man has been so wrong, so many times, in his inacurate predictions and stratigem, and yet continues to put forward to the world a sneeringly condescending demeanor.
This guy's a fucking piece of work.
.
From the San Diego Union (via the freeps):
Neighbors got their first inkling that something was going on at Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham's Del Mar-area home when they saw him packing. Next door neighbor Kent Greene asked: "Are you selling your house?"
"Already sold," Cunningham answered.
When neighbors later learned the $1,675,000 price, they were even more astonished.
Quiet murmurings eventually became an uproar on quiet Mercado Drive, where people routinely meet for Friday night cocktails and take out one another's trash during vacations.
Located just outside Del Mar, in the San Diego city limits, it's not the kind of place homeowners ever expected FBI agents to snoop around.
But Cunningham is being investigated by the FBI and a federal grand jury because he sold the home for what seemed to be an exorbitant price to a defense contractor who got tens of millions of dollars in federal contracts.
Sorry to go off-topic, but today's Howler is particularly stunning.
.
What do you say to America's youth to get them to enlist?
Perhaps he could arrange for another Sept. 11
Some folks were born, made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
But when the band plays Hail To The Cheif,
They point the cannon at you.
I guess it's a good thing we don't have massive anti-war protests going on. I'm sure Bush and his fire-breathing chickenhawk brigades would not hesitate to gun down the protesters en masse.
I can't think of a single comment on that article. All I keep coming up with is a maniacal laugh worthy of Vincent Price.
Here's a question for you all. One of the quoted students says that if there were another terrorist attack on the scale of 9/11, she would join.
Would any of you do so? And if not, what are YOUR reasons?
To forestall the emptyheaded, been there, done that, too old to reenlist.
More vivian:
September 02, 2004
Vivian Lee, a 17-year-old high school senior from Los Angeles, said her concerns focused more on abortion, stem cell research and gay rights.
"For me," she said, "It's all about morals."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/
0,2...,131203,00.html
Aaaaah... the morals thing.
"It's as much fun to scare as to be scared."
-- Vincent Price
"Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism".
No offence, but F.U., buddy. There's self awareness and there's enlightenment, and there's a huge gulf spiritual between the two states.
mag,
well one things pretty clear, you sign up, you're going.
which is of course why so many are not signing up.
course it's very easy to trick kids.
what i don't get is how these bastards dishonor the troops ie. cheney, bush, rumsfeld etc... in myriad ways and they still get support. tho, perhaps that is waning. nonetheless, the damage is done.
IOKYAR - wars are supposed to be fought by the hoi polloi - thus the Repugs are above the sordid business of picking up a gun and actually fighting.
That's for poor kids, rural kids and Democrats.
Here's a question for you all. One of the quoted students says that if there were another terrorist attack on the scale of 9/11, she would join.
Hilarious.
One 9/11? Nah. I'm only really needed if there are TWO 9/11s...
Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism".
Tell it to Gandhi, fuckhead.
QL, I'm female, I don't condone fighting and I've never hit anyone, but re: the Swift Boat lies - I do think Kerry missed a completely defensible opportunity just to walk up to the Swift Boat leader and start swinging. There is a actually a time and place (such as Rove's remarks this week) to push your chair up, stand up and say "what the hell did you say?!" and throw a punch. I think McCain should've stood up in the debate where he called Bush out for lying about his wife, and kicked his ass. It should take only about 5 seconds to respond to a lie that impugns one's character.
Fucking cowards, every last one of them.
The only way there will be another Sept 11 is if it's allowed to happen again, so the question is pointless.
Besides, we would just invade another country that had nothing to do with it anyway, Iran perhaps.
JPT - tell you what, let's just see if she does join up if there is another attack, first, ok?
Cause I think it's an excuse and she'd never join. Never. If she was going to, she would have.
Me - no fucking way.
Terrorists are criminals and should be treated as such. You can't make war on an abstract idea or a stateless enemy.
"Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism".
Oh really? What would you call Martin Luther King and Gandhi?
Sallyh, La Poissoniere--since you are an educator, i thought you might enjoy this article in the New Yorker, annals of education: GOD AND COUNTRY about Patrick Henry College. Scary that these may be our future leaders.
Hadenough
Have you ever had an original thought? I detect smoke coming out of your empty head from all that cutting a pasting. You’re nothing but a snarky little parrot.
Besides, enlistment is down by 30-40% across the board. Troops are needed now, not later.
Anyone who believes in this useless war and doesn't enlist is a fucking coward, plain and simple.
Which of the quotes in the article wins the prize for most naively and self-righteously callous?
Here's my pick: "We don't have to be there physically to fight it," she said.
Cause I think it's an excuse and she'd never join. Never. If she was going to, she would have.
Wait, do you mean that Jenna and notJenna are not actually going to go to the 3rd World and help the needy?
My entire worldview is crumbling around me.
Mr Bush will attempt to persuade an increasingly sceptical public to maintain support for the war in a speech on Tuesday evening at the Fort Bragg army base in North Carolina.
Hmm. Wasn't Bragg a Confederate general? This speech is directed south of the Mason-Dixon. The rest of us can tune out.
Bush should give the speech from Arlington National Cemetery. Heh. Buncha dead people, y'all give it up for the USA. Earn your spot.
No imag--gracias for the link. I'm starting now.
Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism".
Your cowardice is void of principle. My desires for peace that extend to pacifism are founded in the principles of Christianity, something you seem to know very little about.
The rest of us can tune out.
But, but... it's the one year anniversary of the historic Transfer of Sovereignty in Iraq! Clearly, an important occasion!
Anyway, none of this matters. We've already lost the War on Terror, for there are bare boobies back in the Justice Department!!!
Jeez, people. I didn't equate pacifism and enlightenment, did I? Haven't many of you said that our warmonger president can't have his crusade if people are too scared to fight? And isn't that a GOOD thing?
Sorry to offend you.
Heh, remember this shit from J. Edgar Hoover?
The Party's attack is geared to the wide variety of American life. Communism has something to sell to everybody.
Thus the Party, through its specialized and immediate demands, is able to gain entree into various groups and create favorable working conditions for future revolutionary action. Very quickly, for example:
-- a veterans' meeting endorses "peace."
-- a nationality festival passes a resolution for "peace."
-- a youth affair favors "peace."
-- a neighborhood group comes out for "peace."
-- a women's rally fights for "peace."
Whatever its composition, the group, once under communist control, is switched to the Party line. The feigned interest in legitimate demands is merely a trap.
Yesterday a suicide bomber blew up a vehicle full of female marines. One is dead, 10 or 11 are "missing," (read blown to bits, bodies not identified, families not yet notified.) What do you think recruiters are going to do with THAT?
We currently have the most pampered wartime citizenry in our history. If there were actually scrap/rubber/nylon drives, airraid drills, food rations etc, happening now, people would demand, as they are already starting to, some kind of exit strategy, which Bush has already said he refuses to even discuss.
OK-I'm going to flame dems-just a warning.
I read an article in the WP about how repubs never apologize, and it got me thinking. Why are dems such pussies. As soon as FOX manufactures a scandal-the dems line up to bash each other and then a apology is next? from the WP:
They Don't Apologize
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Friday, June 24, 2005; 1:54 PM
There are at least two reasons why no one should expect any apologies from Karl Rove or the White House for Rove's controversial comments Tuesday night, in which he described the liberal approach to national security as being weak and possibly even treasonous.
1) This White House doesn't apologize.
2) Why apologize when you said exactly what you meant to say?
Karl Rove didn't get George W. Bush this far just by luck. Rove has a brilliant and so far unbeatable strategy when it comes to political warfare: He doesn't defend his candidate's weaknesses, he attacks his opponent's strengths. Unapologetically.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...log/2005/06/24/
BL2005062400894.html
Here's a question for you all. One of the quoted students says that if there were another terrorist attack on the scale of 9/11, she would join.
Would any of you do so? And if not, what are YOUR reasons?
No. But unlike Ms. Lee, I'm not an able-bodied 17-year old who views war as something cool to cheerlead on TV from the comfort of my living room while making lame excuses about why I support a war I wouldn't myself fight.
Oh so revealing.
Ignorance really is bliss. Who knew? Wow.
http://www.asilentcacophony.blogspot.com
The wingnuts had a saying: A conservative is a liberal whose has been mugged.
I wonder what one would call a young republican who has actually smelled cordite and heard shots fired in anger? At them?
A converted Dem, perhaps?
And her excuse now is....?
Rmj, Wandering Aengus
Minorities took all the good slots.
Morning batses.
Well the first question is if there is another 9/11 level attack, who exactly are we going to go after?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHSAHAHAHAHAHAH (gasp....) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (gasp, choke)
SPLUTTERINGHAHAHAHASPLUTTERING, gasp, choke, hahahahahahhah hahhahh hah ha...
Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism
Wow! A cliche like that belongs in the movies. Kinda like "I feel the need for speed."
You can't make war on an abstract idea or a stateless enemy.
I have yet to understand how a tank can stop a shadow. You have to see an enemy to stop him.
Only international cooperation in criminal investigation can fight terrorism.
If a terrorist believes he is acting to fight against our use of military force, how exactly is military force supposed to reduce his desire for destruction?
The aim of this administration is not to prevent terror, but to increase and enhance it.
MLK took a bullet for his beliefs, doesn't sound like cowardice to me.
Speedy,
I, for one, find nothing wrong with fighting. It's just that we've got a tremendous case of barking up the wrong tree.
But yes, even if we would rather see all the soldiers brought home tomorrow, or at least assigned to more porductive missions, if you support the war that is causing our all-volunteer army to dwindle away, you must fight.
Now get gone, you shrink-nutted coward.
Well the first question is if there is another 9/11 level attack, who exactly are we going to go after?
EkCenTriK
I for one am torn between blaming Canada and blaming Eli.
Sallyh, you're welcome. The article was both scary and funny, in a non-ha ha sort of way.
"White House Stands Behind Rove Comments"
"Democrats critisize Chairman"
"Durbin apologizes"
Ok lay off Speedy's comment. Speedy clarified it: isn't it a good thing if potential recruits are too scared to go?
"If there was a need presented, I would go,"
There is; as long as you think your Dear Leader didn't lie from the get go, then go already...
I for one am torn between blaming Canada and blaming Eli.
Don't forget Poland
Re-release "Top Gun?"
Tom Cruz
i did notice the history channel played "Apocalypse Now" the other nite.
some say this is not a movie that is true to the vietnam experience. i have no real meter by which to judge that. but it's not the point, as it very accurately reflects the "Heart of Darkness"
so if there was another 9/11, no, i would not sign up. in fact i think the war in Iraq virtually assures there will be another 9/11. now, had we stayed in afghanistan, where we might have contained and cut off the head of the snake, it might all be different. instead we have a million little vipers slithering about. some right in our very midst.
chanelling dick cheney.
No imag--this article proves why homeschooling is often a terrible thing. I realize that I have professional bias, but I've always been against homeschooling, especially in the atmosphere of theofascism. These kids don't have a clue.
Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism.
Moronic brownshirt fucks like yourself are also pacifists? Who knew???
Wait, do you mean that Jenna and notJenna are not actually going to go to the 3rd World and help the needy?
Thank god. People in developing countries have enough problems.
Kinda OT:
Sounds like KDKA's taken off Mr. Chris Moore, a Vietnam vet who kicked chickenhawk ass and took names.
One group is quite particular about who dies for their freedoms:
http://tinyurl.com/8k49b
This is unbelievable.
"Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism"
Republicans are a short step from pond scum.
Here's a question for you all. One of the quoted students says that if there were another terrorist attack on the scale of 9/11, she would join.
Would any of you do so? And if not, what are YOUR reasons?
Nope, wouldn't do it. Even if I wasn't 50-plus. Here's why.
The military is supposed to be there to defend the country, a noble mission.
This military is being used as nothing more than George W. Bush's Goon Squad.
It's not the fault of the military. It's the fault of the corrupt motherfuckers who are sending them off to die.
If I were of the age to be of use, I'd go CO until a responsible and honorable leader took over as CinC.
Bush lies, to everyone, all the time, and treats the military like his toy. I wouldn't fight for a fucking coward.
So far all the answers are oblique and dodge the two questions. The only one that even comes close to addressing one is:
" Well the first question is if there is another 9/11 level attack, who exactly are we going to go after?"
Actually, this is not the first question as Ms Lee seems to see it. She seems to be saying that if she saw the need now (this being last summer remember) or there were another attack, she would enlist in the military. She's not placing any conditions on who we would go after.
About enlisting, Andrew Sullivan wrote at one point on his blog, maybe about six months ago or so, the military's job is to fight and he's paying them to do just that. So no complaints. That is the consequence of a volunteer military, which is in fact a professional military, possibly a mercenary one, divorced from the attitudes of duty and service applying equally to all citizens. Some enlist, they are paid; others don't enlist, they or their daddies and mommies help pay those who do. So you see, everyone gets what he wants and is happy. I'm sure many Republican kids, like Bush and Cheney, find the argument highly tantalizing. The U.S. aggression against Iraq is, in all senses, the biggest tactical and moral mistake the U.S. has ever made, and Mr. G.W. Bush is personally responsible for the consequences, though many members of congress who did and still do seem to support it are highly culpable. You can fill in the names yourself. The attitude of most Democrats is more than disappointing.
I must have missed something -- why are we alla sudden blaming Eli for stuff?
(Actually, come to think of it: If it has anything whatsoever to do with Creepy Jesus, I'm in.)
This is unbelievable.
parsec
Well, as we all recently learned, Fred Phelps is an American-hating liberal.
...sn't it a good thing if potential recruits are too scared to go?
Not if they still want others to go - just not them.
Not if they still support, loudly and shrilly, a war they know they will never, ever, ever volunteer to fight.
Not if they denigrate the patriotism of anyone who doesn't support the war they won't fight.
Not if they refuse to denounce the lies that got us into the war they won't fight.
Pricks like that are motherfucking fascist cowards, and should be tagged as such every fucking time they show their faces.
Sorry to go off-topic, but today's Howler is particularly stunning.
.
nobody
Got that right. Wow.
"White House Stands Behind Rove Comments"
LFoD
White House says it meant Michael Moore and MoveOn when it said Liberals.
Santorum says Rove doesn't speak for him.
And on the 7th day, the news cycle rested.
(Repeat from thread below)
Media Notes:
1) Saw the Air America interview with Klein (smear book on Hillary) below. Loved it. Conason, who I saw speak when he was in Philly 2 years ago, tore Klein a new one. Conason's approach is exactly how progressives should respond to right wing attacks. He must have called him a liar at least half a dozen times.
2)Watched Leher news hour yesterday, which had Tom Olliphant (the Boston Globe cartoonist) as the liberal & a conservative as the guest weekly commentators. Regarding the Rove controversy: Olliphant was pathetic, saying Rove was wrong & it weakened the ability of moderates, from both parties, to find a common solution to the Iraq War. The conservative just kept repeating the mime that Rove was referring to liberal groups like Move On & Moore. This was a great opportunity to go after Rove/Bush by saying it was a lie, was divisive by pitting Americans against each other & thus hurting the War effort (that FDR or George Washington would never have done anything like this), that Rove should resign to maintain the harmony of the American people against the terrorists, that Rove evaded serving in Nam & that he should now redeem himself by going to fight in Iraq or, at least, getting his kids to go.
sallyh:
there was a great observation made by one of the students at patrick henry that i thought was a hoot. isn't it interesting that none of those big-shot beltway reporters ever made the connection that real cowboys don't have soft hands.
"Once, she shook hands with George Bush and noticed that his hands were soft, not real rancher’s hands, like her dad’s."
Hey Troll-Bitch, take your false argument and go play in someone elses sandbox, fuckface.
isn't it a good thing if potential recruits are too scared to go
Indeed--despite the neocon fixation on the undemocratic philosophy of Leo Strauss, and his contempt for rationality, reason will prevail.
Self-preservation is rational.
We are not at war to preserve ourselves, but to preserve corporate tyrannies and the entrenchment of "Great White Father" rulership.
Stop
Killing
Our
Young
Now
We have becom murderers of our own posterity for short-term geopolitical gains.
Stop
Now
why are we alla sudden blaming Eli for stuff?
Because Eli must be stopped. Or something like that.
Oh really? What would you call Martin Luther King and Gandhi?
you forgot jesus. jesus was a bad ass. he'd fuck'n hate george bush. i'm pretty sure he's against torture too, and he would know.
what we really needed was a more "sensitive" (look it up, has 11 different meanings)intelligent, effective war on terrorism. it's too late now.
The Young Repub protests against SS in DC is an excellent time to ring them with people urging them to enlist in the army. Bring the forms, go after them personally urging them to do their patriotic duty & fight the terrorists before they enter our doorstep.
At a minimum, it would make great political theater for TV news.
DSM
DSM
DSM
DSM
DSM
DSM
DSM
DSM
DSM
DSM
DSM
OT: Taiwan Reimposes Ban on U.S. Beef Imports
http://tinyurl.com/am9gr
Only a $76 million market, but sends a clear message.
I think I'll be grilling turkey dogs tonight.
BKNY--Chimp has to be the laziest person in the US. What with his short work days, his workouts, and his naps, he's got a cake job. He's utterly insulated from both the press and the public. No criticism of him is permitted. The only ones I know who have this kind of life are my cats.
"I physically probably couldn't do a whole lot" in Iraq, said Tiffanee Hokel, 18, of Webster City, Iowa, who called the war a moral imperative.
Lori Piestewa, Pfc., U.S. Army (Died Apr. 4) Lori Piestewa, 23, was classified as missing in action after enemy soldiers ambushed her unit in MArch 2003. She was declared dead on April 4, 2003. Piestewa (pronounced pee-ESS-tuh-wah) was a member of the Hopi Tribe, whose reservation is near the Navajo Reservation community of Tuba City. She was a single mother raising two toddlers.
Alyssa R. Peterson, Spc., U.S. Army (Died Sep. 15) Alyssa Peterson, 27, was killed near Tel Afar, Iraq, by a gunshot wound to the head from a non-combat weapons discharge. Peterson, of Flagstaff, Ariz., was fluent in Arabic and conducted interrogations and translated enemy documents. She was assigned to C Company, 311th Military Intelligence Battalion of the 101st Airborne Division.
Sam W. Huff, Pfc., U.S. Army (Died Apr. 1
Samantha Huff, 18, of Tucson, Ariz., died in Baghdad, Iraq, of injuries sustained on April 17 in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device detonated near her Humvee. Huff was assigned to the 170th Military Police Company, 504th Military Police Battalion, 42nd Military Police Brigade, Fort Lewis, Wash.
Tina S. Time, Sgt., U.S. Army (Died Dec. 13) Tina S. Time, 22, from Tucson, Ariz., was killed near Cedar, Iraq, when she was involved in a vehicle accident. Time, assigned to the Army Reserve's 208th Transportation Co., was killed in a head-on crash during a dust storm in southeast Iraq. She is believed to be the first female American Samoan killed while serving in the conflict. Her tour was set to end in two months.
Tiffanee? Maybe there's something you could 'physically do'. Maybe?
Uncle Smokes - this administration doesn't give a rat's ass about terrorism.
It has done exactly nothing to combat terrorism. Nothing.
They fucking do not care. At all. Never have. Aren't concerned.
Jenna Bush: "I didn't volunteer because there are plenty of darkies enlisting already. I didn't want to shower in the same room with them, ickkk!!!"
Mary Cheney: "I tried to enlist and mom told me to bring back as many shower stories as I could. But dad wouldn't let me. Dad said shower stories sounded nice but he had too many bloody plans for the military to let me take the chance."
Noelle Bush: "Sounds great! I love Hawaii! Ice skating's fun! So is the nice variety of animals! Oh man you shouldn't be asking me questions when I'm on this shit!"
George P. Bush: "Get that f*cking thing out of my face, you almost wrinkled my shirt biatch! F*ck with me again and my homeboys are going to cop a plug in your ass!"
John Bush: "Sure I'll join up! As soon as I get out of the joint. The ass in Iraq sure looks better than the ass in this place!"
Barbara Bush: "Nawww! I'd never join. Daddy would never let me. Says joining's for dickheads. He says the real challenge is to get out of it and make others go fight for you. Dad usually knows about these sorts of things."
MYOB'
.
Thanks mag.
Someone judging my knowledge of "the principles of Christianity" is pretty laughable. You don't know me, bill. And you misread my post. (You weren't the only one.)
I AM a pacifist. There might be "just" wars; I don't know.... I won't boast about being enlightened, and I'll keep my faith to myself for now.
I am not pro-cowardice, however so many of you might have read my post. I'm sorry if I was unclear. You don't know me, or how cowardly or brave I might have ever been in my life.
Peace.
They should publish that article in Stars and Stripes. It might cause a revolt.
Little snot nosed psychopath bastard children of the GOP.
" We don't have to be there physically to fight it
The motto of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders, as well as Internet Tough Guys such as Toby/ether/Gordo et al, etc, ad nauseum.
Each and every one of them, cast from the same mold (spelling intentional!) as Dear Leader, who bravely went and hid, while John Kerry, John McCain, Al Gore, Max Cleland, Jimmy Carter, et al cowardly went and did.
Demand a full and thorough investigation into the Downing Street Memo (DSM).
"I physically probably couldn't do a whole lot" in Iraq, said Tiffanee Hokel, 18, of Webster City, Iowa, who called the war a moral imperative.
I guess "moral imperatives" have changed a lot since I was a kid...
Earth to "liberal media":
O'Donnell: But Dan, Karl said liberal, not liberal extremist, was he referring to Sen. Clinton and others when he said that they demanded indictments and to offer therapy to the terrorists?
Bartlett: Well Norah, in the next sentence, I believe, right after that, his citation as an example of liberals was he cited MoveOn.org. He didn't cite certain Democrats he didn't cite Sen. Clinton or others, he said MoveOn.org specifically because that is where the citation was issued from, this organization, so like I said, I think there might be some attempts by the Democrats to kind of get the glare off of Sen. Durbin, I just don't understand why they'd want to defend this organization, when in fact they voted to support President Bush and the war on terror.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8347159/
How Liberal is John Kerry?
A new RNC ad claims Kerry is "the most liberal man in the Senate." Actually, his lifetime rating is 11th or lower, depending
http://www.factcheck.org/
article...rticle284m.html
bush debate II:
BUSH: Let me see where to start here.
First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that took a lot of hard work.
[ the moron misspoke, he meant Kerry was the most liberal not Kennedy ]
...
That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't.
...
BUSH: They don't name him the most liberal in the United States Senate because he hasn't shown up to many meetings. They named him because of his votes. And it's reality.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...ebate_1008.html
There is a lot more. Dean is a big fat liberal. Hillary? Yup.
Carter,
this is why dems always lose. They wantto be nice and reasonable. See, if I were the dem spokesperson,I would say that Rove's comments illustrate the pathetic desperation of the losing liar's lame duck presidency crashing to the ground. I would say that since Bush cant fix America's problems, he has to attack the liberal democrats serving in the quagmire he created. Not this bullshit nicey nicy talk
"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
-- Jesus of Nazareth (bad-ass troublemaker)
"I physically probably couldn't do a whole lot" in Iraq, said Tiffanee Hokel, 18, of Webster City, Iowa, who called the war a moral imperative.
No, I think the plan for these young ladies is to stay home, breed like rabbits, and homeschool the next generation of cowards.
We don't have to be there physically to fight it
Too bad Babs and GWH Bush didn't feel that way about fucking.
It has done exactly nothing to combat terrorism. Nothing.
Less than zero. They can't get enough of the stuff. Hell, it's just another commodity that they can make a profit on.
Pretty crass statement? Who profited the most from 9-11?
There's a need to get in the MSM whether W is going to ask his daughters to do their patriotic duty & enlist in the army.
I remember before the election, Jenna & not Jenna were going to teach in a ghetto school in DC & do aid work in Africa. Does passing out in bars constitute partial fulfillment of these missions?
When Jenna talked about helping poor black kids, I wondered about that. Having orgies with black men does not constitute doing non-profit work.
" Well the first question is if there is another 9/11 level attack, who exactly are we going to go after?
EkCenTriK
I for one am torn between blaming Canada and blaming Eli.
rorschach "
The special forces/seals/CIA will take care of Eli, but what about the pernicious Canucks? Remember what happened last time?
http://
www.eyewitnesstohistory.c...hingtonsack.htm
And let us not be too harsh on the 17-year-old for saying stupid things about why she hasn't enlisted yet (probably can't until she's 1 of course the other yellow fucking elephants have no such excuse.
"That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't."
That's because you're a fucking idiot!!!
"Frankly, I want to be a politician. I'd like to survive to see that," said Vivian Lee, 17, a war supporter visiting the convention from Los Angeles
Gee, Clinton is still being vilified for writing something close to that. Can we remember this if she ever does become a politician. These college Republicans are beyond gutless.
Sallyh, yes, the student body as a whole has led a sheltered life far away from the reality on the ground, indoctrinated from the beginning, never having had their world view challenged, unable to argue or support their positions save by spouting superficial or non-existent claims, and yet somehow they are being tapped by Repubs, expected to be our future leaders. Scares the crap out of me. However, it does prove, at least to me, that liberals really need to organize institutionally, to create pipelines and programs to get students involved in the political process. Democrats do not have the funding or equivalent of the young republicans, Scaife money backing right wing college newspapers, think tanks etc. This is something I think we sorely need.
Toot-toot
Beep-beep
!
.
From Le Monde
17:11 Istanbul. The World Tribunal on Iraq established by NGOs to protest the war and occupation in Iraq continued its sessions on Saturday in Istanbul with testimony from Iraqis which painted a somber portrait of the attitude of US troops.
"Today Iraq is a vast prison" said Iraqi lawyer Amal Sawadi, before describing in detail the arrest procedure used by US troops. They come into your house at night when everyone is asleep, blow open the door with explosives. They point their gunbarrels in people's faces. They frisk women in front of their families and break everything inside the home.
Lawyers have difficulties in obtaining information on imprisoned women. Citing the difficulty in gathering such information, Ms. Sawadi narrated numerous instances of rape and humiliation inside US detention camps. Ms. Sawadi says torture is systematic.
The fifteen jurors heard live and recorded testimony and viewed shocking photos of pockets of resistance such as Fallujah. At night, there was so much bombardment that it could have been daylight, recounts Fadhil Al Bedrani, correspondant for al-Jazeera TV and the only journalist to have been on the scene during two US assaults on Fallujah in April and November 2004. Al-Bedrani told the story of a 70 year-old woman who died because it was impossible to find medication inside the besieged city, suffocating in the stink of abandoned corpses, half-devoured by animals. Al-Bedrani called the assault on the city of 150,000 "genocide".
Participants in the World Tribunal on Iraq observed two minutes of silence for the victims of the occupation in Iraq, while militants unfurled a banner hundreds of meters long with photos of Iraqi children killed or wounded in the war.
Established by 200 NGOs and intellectuals after the start of the war in 2003, the WTI has organizaed twenty sessions throughout the world. The session in Istanbul started on Thursday.
"Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism"
No, it isn't. Cowardice is cowardice.
Pacifism is a principled, moral stand on the valuelessness of war. War is man's most futile endeavor - what has any war accomplished that lasted?
Nothing.
I would have volunteered in WWII, if I had been alive, though as a woman, I would not have been allowed in combat. That was a clear case of the US being attacked and an enemy who, if it won, would have changed everything about the world.
Iraq is George Bush's personal vendetta and oil and war profiteering venture.
I wouldn't spit on someone for Bush - I'd spit on Bush, but not on someone Bush asked me to spit on, let alone kill.
"I for one am torn between blaming Canada and blaming Eli."
Rorschach--we blame Eli for everything. It's always Eli's fault.
I had to leave suddenly last night, so I wasn't able to tell everyone that I wasn't fishing for belated b-day wishes. I was just having a Happy Friday. 
.
Jeffraham and Curly! How're my boys today?
The motto of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders, as well as Internet Tough Guys such as Toby/ether/Gordo et al, etc, ad nauseum.
Although I heard some rumor that Rester Jester was thinking of signing up after he learned there were sailors in Fallujah....
GWPDA - First cherries were out at market. But it will prolly be next week till they are available in bounty. I have not forgotten.
I have two nephews who are Marines. Both have been to Iraq in the middle of this shit. If the chicken shit chickenhawk assholes don't have the balls to put their pretty little asses on the line then they well....
Not that it makes any dif I guess. Look who we have for prez..the chickenhawk in chief who defeated a Navy war hero in the last campaign. I guess the Republicans are the national chickenhawk christofascist party.
Hey! NCLB is working just great! Well, maybe at providing cannon fodder, but not much else:
Analysis Alleges Graduation Rate Inflation
Little snot nosed psychopath bastard children of the GOP
so good i had to see it in bold.
Sallyh: Jeffraham and Curly! How're my boys today?
One is furry, the other, tired and sweaty. Lots of low-pay video headaches from yesterday to Monday night, which may or may not culminate in anything usable. My main PC is dead, and so far, no suitable replacement has been found, thusfar!
.
"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
-- Jesus of Nazareth (bad-ass troublemaker)
Uncle Smokes
-------------------------
Is there a place for
the hopeless sinner, Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own beliefs?
-- Bob Marley (bad-ass troublemaker)
"Too bad Babs and GWH Bush didn't feel that way about fucking."
Spinoza wins the coffee-all-over-the-keyboard award for this morning.
I like the way Spinoza thinks. I'm not sure this is a healthy thing
this is why dems always lose. They wantto be nice and reasonable... Not this bullshit nicey nicy talk
LFoD
Exactly. Olliphant & most Democrats are such wimps. They don't see the big picture & become frightened by any negative media coverage. Plus, they don't have other Democrats defending their statements. So, they apologize to get it off the front page, not realizing that this creates a permanent impression they were wrong & appear weak.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
Ronald Reagan
40th president of US (1911 - 2004)
"Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism"
Too bad you can't tell that to Ghandi and Martin Luther King, asshole.
Cowardice is a short step from pacifism...
I took this to mean that if people are afraid to fight, it might get them thinking about the necessity of war, especially this one, and result in a more pacifist viewpoint.
The problem is a lot of these people don't think about the horror of war. They just wave the flag and mouth the ingrained, patriotic-sounding bullshit. Empathy is NOT their strong suit.
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.co...e-2004-
pew.html
51% of dems thought 9/11 was America's fault.
No, really, that's what it says.
and ghod knows the last thing the US needs is universal healthcare, how the hell would HMO's make money while denying people proper care?
Hey rev.paperboy, good bit of history.
Here's an excerpt from the commentary of George Gelig, part of the British force that attacked and burned Washington:
"...the horse of the General himself, who accompanied them, killed. You will easily believe that conduct so unjustifiable, so direct a breach of the law of nations, roused the indignation of every individual, from the General himself down to the private soldier.
All thoughts of accommodation were instantly laid aside; the troops advanced forth with into the town, and having first put to the sword all who were found in the house from which the shots were fired, and reduced it to ashes, they proceeded, without 'a moment's delay, to burn and destroy everything in the most distant degree connected with government."
And lo, we are still here!
Is "winning" in Iraq like the British "winning" in 1814?
What is "winning," save for the total obliteration of a country and its people?
Sallyh, well there's a surprise 
Because of NCLB many school districts are also inflating their overall scores for the standardized tests, neglecting to report drop outs, etc.
Chris Cusmano's email:
runner1050@aol.com
His nearest recruitment center:
322 East Main St.
Riverhead, NY 11901
631-727-4830
...one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
Ronald Reagan
the faltering edge of a golden age
a precipice before the abyss
look down from on high to where posterity dies
where great grandchildren whisper of your lost everlasting wonder
martial might and magical powers
tales told around campfires of how we founded the golden cage
of their new dark age
Gordo the Imaginary Vet has it wrong. The poll, which is from 2004, indicated that 51 percent of Democrats polled felt that the US government had something to do with 9/11.
God is in the details. And, it's all details.
I teach at SMU, a Republican bastion of privilege and pusillanimy. I hear these same arguments from yellow Republicans every day.
I love the argument -- whether misguided or cowardly -- that there's not a need for volunteers.
I pressed one of my 18 yo students -- although I have no desire to see any 18 yo go to Iraq -- and asked him why he didn't volunteer, after he made a bold statement that he would gladly "fight for our country." "Why not do it now?" I prodded. "Well, my parents say I have to finish college first."
...one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
And women were not.
Funniest, and most infuriating graf in the piece:
Similarly, 20-year-old Jeff Shafer, a University of Pennsylvania student, said vital work needs to be done in the United States. There are Republican policies to maintain and protect and an economy to sustain, Shafer said.
Yes indeed. Republican Youth, ever vigilant protecting Republican policies on the home front! Have no fear! Your tax cuts are safe!
No imag--in some states, there's a huge push to get underperforming students to drop out. Those numbers go consistently unrecorded.
"indicated that 51 percent of Democrats polled felt that the US government had something to do with 9/11."
it does? I dont think so!! thats even worse! but the poll definitely doesnt say that!!!
"Cowardice is a short step from Pacifism"
Tell that to Mahatma Ghandi as he stood there and let the British guards beat him and his followers again and again and kept going back for more until he shamed them into stopping. He never once raised a fist to stop them. He just stood there and let them beat him with rods until the blood poored from across his face and head.
You call that a small step away from cowardice?
But let's bring it closer to conservatism for your tastes.
Jesus.
Did he raise a sword?
Did he bare a knife?
Did he take up arms of any kind?
No.
He just stood there and let them take him and based on your own mythology he allowed himself to be crucified for others.
So tell me....
Is pacifism just a small step from cowardice or in the face of danger the greatest courage a man could possibly muster?
Therefore you are an idiot.
Now leave before us liberals sodomize you, sacrifice your babies to satan, give your money away to lazy bums, gang bang you with a pack of ravenous piggish fags, convert you to islam, and make your white, blonde daughters have sex with black men.
MYOB'
.
sallyh is so dumb she doesnt even get the criticism of the poll right.
51% of dems think the US had something to do with 9/11? thats far worse than even my deliberately outrageous and incorrect paraphrase
God is in the details. And, it's all details.
That asshole and others like him can't differentiate between the Bush administration and thew United States of America.
Come to think of it, standing up to your government can mean standing up for your country.”
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.co...e-2004-
pew.html
try again:
51% of dems thought 9/11 was america's fault.
SallyH has struck out. who can help her?
MYOB - I agree with everything you just posted, but I have to stick up again for Speedy. He/she misspoke, and merely wanted to raise the question: if people are afraid to fight, won't that reduce enlistment and be a good thing?
We can all continue to defend principled pacifism without attacking Speedy, who did clarify his statement.
"Similarly, 20-year-old Jeff Shafer, a University of Pennsylvania student, said vital work needs to be done in the United States. There are Republican policies to maintain and protect and an economy to sustain, Shafer said."
2 years ago, I overheard a hawkish student debating some others on why one didn't need to volunteer if one favored the war. He said, "I'm too smart to go. I'd be depriving society of my abilities if I went to fight."
Being an instructor = tremendous self control at times. Fortunately, when the going gets tough, the tough get a beer.
So, they apologize to get it off the front page, not realizing that this creates a permanent impression they were wrong & appear weak.
Carter
Portraying a caricature of a John Wayne movie character and "looking tough" is not a policy goal unless you're a Bushevik with nothing positive to sell the country.
Circular firing squads though should be avoided. Especially when you have a troll in your midst trying to start liberals on one as a distraction.
A distraction from tarring and feathering Karl Rove and the Busheviks who refuse to apologise for making outrageous statements that are demonstrably false and divide America and make it weaker in a time of war.
Sallyh, the NCLB is one of the worst things to happen in education, and because of it, teaching to the test is one of the biggest crimes. It sickens me that critical thinking is not being nurtured and that classes such as social studies are being marginalized.
"
That asshole and others like him can't differentiate between the Bush administration and thew United States of America."
lol another one who cant read. another one who didnt bother to read the poll. pie thinks the bush administration caused 9/11 and that 51% of dems agree with her. lol. so sad. i weep for you.
No imag--I'm in a few working groups that attempt to help those going into education. One of the scariest things I heard from an ed prof in one of the classes I sat in on was, "Well, the reality is you have to teach to the test, and there's not much time for science. But maybe you could have like a science Friday, say, once a month."
We had words after this class.
God forbid that the US should admit that it made mistakes - can't be having with that, for all love.
Idiots. Morons. Simpletons.
I hope to hell that Bush continues to refuse to acknowledge errors and refuses to apologize for them.
Please, keep that shit up - it's going over really well. Over 60% of Americans are against this FUBAR mess Bush has created in Iraq. So let's see how much further his arrogant refusal to ever apologize for anything is going to take him.
"I'm too smart to go. I'd be depriving society of my abilities if I went to fight."
And he was Rupert Brooke, come back to us home and safe, this time?
OK, one more try:
When conservative cowards' asses are on the line, they could become "pacifists" in a heartbeat. And if that slows down the Crusade, good.
Oh fuck it, I give up.
Peace.
I smell a conspiracy.
Given the latency before BSE shows up in humans, does the business friendly Bush administration think they can hide an existing problem or quietly dispose of infected stock while standards are put in place behind the scenes?
This article was from March a year ago.
From USA Today 3-25-04
Creekstone Farms Premium Beef is a small producer of high-quality beef in Kansas. But it's making a big point about mad cow disease. It wants to privately test all of the cattle it slaughters for the illness, which can cause a fatal brain disease in humans who eat infected meat.
The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) currently does not allow such private testing for mad cow disease. And it claims that a new government testing system it approved this month is perfectly adequate.
Other beef producers and the USDA say going beyond the new system is unnecessary. But hundreds of seemingly healthy cattle in Europe have tested positive for mad cow disease.
Americans are willing to fund a higher level of reassurance. A January poll by the Consumers Union showed that 95% of adults would pay 10 cents more a pound for tested beef. Testing every slaughtered cow would cost about six cents per pound.
The poll asks: US Wrongdoing Might Have Motivated 9/11 Attacks?
51% of Dems agreed with that in 2004.
All this means is that... US wrongdoing might have motivated the 9/11 attacks. Nothing more nor less.
It does means "America is to blame" as the troll would like to have us believe.
All it means is that half of Dems are smart enough to think: "Hm. Maybe heavy-handed interventionist US policies pissed some of these fundies off enough that they got these crazy murderous evil plans in their heads..."
I'm not one of those ready to condemn Durbin for his apology on the floor. How do we know he and/or his family were not threatened if he didn't do it? We know that pressure is applied in these times, and rather forcefully.
i like speedy, leave speedy alone.
circular firing squads and all that rot.
i just really wish jesus would come back and kick george bush's ass.
I said that, Gordo?
I'll tell you what. You stop putting words in my mouth, and I'll not write what a fucking asshole you are for doing it.
Hear me: an unconscious people, an indoctrinated people, a people fed only partisan information and opinion that confirm their own bias, a people made morbidly obese in mind and spirit by the junk food of propaganda is less inclined to put up a fight, ask questions and be skeptical. And just as a democracy can die of too many lies, that kind of orthodoxy can kill us, too.
Someday, we may learn the truth about the events leading up to 9/11. Until then, I'll hardly take the word of an administration which has lied about almost everything.
LIARS.
When conservative cowards' asses are on the line, they could become "pacifists" in a heartbeat. And if that slows down the Crusade, good.
Oh fuck it, I give up.
Peace.
Just quit smearing the word "pacifist" by misusing it so egregiously.
That is your fundamental error.
>>Vivian Lee, 17, a war supporter visiting the convention from Los Angeles,
Lee said she supports the war but would volunteer only if the United States faced a dire troop shortage or "if there's another Sept. 11."
C'mon, is that her real name? (I know the actress was Leigh, but still)
And what the F*, the first 9/11 wasn't good enough for you. I thought Rove said the libruls were the ones who didn't get 9/11!
Atrios,
You should propose a new rule for elcted dems:
1) No Apologies allowed
2) No Attacking anybody with a D next to their name.
IF Dean said Bush=Hitler, Dems need to say nothing.
How do we know he and/or his family were not threatened if he didn't do it?
This is why we need fewer Durbins and more MLKs.
"Why not do it now?" I prodded. "Well, my parents say I have to finish college first."
Precisely. These are just kids who have been raised in a bubble. At 18 I knew everything and was perfectly willing to lecture my mother on all the mistakes she had ever made. By 25 I knew better. These kids are nothing more than tools right now for this fascist regime.
As for speedy, I think he was trying to say that once someone becomes afraid he/she will be able view the true import of our war and be less likely to indulge in any war merely because someone waves the flag. I think you guys are being too hard on him/her.
Gordo the Imaginary Iraq Veteran and his best pal Pete have more noble and important tasks here on the homefront.
still no word on when Gordo's sorority sisters are gonna sign up.
Yah, Speedy, I love you and I understand what you are trying to say, but it isn't working when you use pacifism that way.
It isn't a product of cowardice but of ethics.
"We don't have to be there physically to fight it," she said."
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
pissant repukelicans.
"And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead "
=
Peace, Speedy.
It's perfectly clear what you meant.
Speedy, you got yourself into this by clumsily suggesting a cause and effect relationship between cowardice and pacifism.
I thought you might be trying to make a more thoughtful point, i.e. that "cowardice" (feeling afraid) may simply be a pejorative term for an entirely appropriate response to the notion of becoming a combatant, and that such feelings are as good a starting place as any to nourish pacifistic inclinations.
That is, I thought you might be suggesting that examining one's "cowardice" could ultimately help one find the courage to embrace pacifism-- a philosophy easily rejected and despised by brute Yahoos and the warmongering Ruling Class alike.
But that's a stretch from what you wrote, which implied either the cause and effect relationship noted above, or the backhanded compliment that cowardice is pacifism's natural ally.
Your clarification didn't speak to this implication, which understandably put people's backs up.
I'm a coward and a pacifist, so I personally don't get all huffy about having my courage questioned. But of course you're going to get flak for embracing a pro-chickenshit stance.
It's not worth kicking up more dust over, except that I'm annoyed by your suggestion that your critics "misread" what you miswrote.
Don't go away mad, though.
51% of Dems agreed with that in 2004.
as ridiculous as i think religion is, it's their holy land, it ain't our oil.
all depends on what altar you worship at.
so yeah, no greed for oil, no 9/11
Since late September 2001, a growing number of Democrats (51%) and independents (45%) believe that U.S. wrongdoing in dealings with other countries might have motivated the 9/11 attacks.
Source, Pew Poll, pg 7
Get the facts straight trool
CNN.COM headline: "Graham kicks off last U.S. Crusade"
Hmm, reminds me of that scene in IAMMMMW with Jimmy Durante kicking the bucket.
Goddamnit, by the time I organize my verbose thoughts and post my comment, fifty other people have slipped past and rendered me redundant!
Does that ever happen to you?
"IF Dean said Bush=Hitler, Dems need to say nothing."
Dems should say: 'here, here'
=
And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him.
And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
(Matthew 26:50-52)
By the way, I'm an agnostic (an atheist with an option to buy), but I like to quote Jesus.
If one were to keep to most of the teachings attributed to Jesus, particularly The Sermon on the Mount, one would probably be a decent person.
51% of dems thought 9/11 was america's fault.
100% of heads of CIA know where Osama is but aren't trying to get him. Fasinating.
Someday, we may learn the truth about the events leading up to 9/11. Until then, I'll hardly take the word of an administration which has lied about almost everything.
And that should be the mantra. They have demonstrably lied from the day they took office, and nothing they say can be believed, on any subject.
"Goddamnit, by the time I organize my verbose thoughts and post my comment, fifty other people have slipped past and rendered me redundant!
Does that ever happen to you?"
Little Bro--story of my life
C'mon, is that her real name? (I know the actress was Leigh, but still)
Swear to Jebus, but i one had a student whose name was "Leigh Atwater."
Some people just hate their children...
Goddamnit, by the time I organize my verbose thoughts and post my comment, fifty other people have slipped past and rendered me redundant!
Fuck. I was just going to say that.
Lee said she supports the war but would volunteer only if the United States faced a dire troop shortage or "if there's another Sept. 11."
oh, those red state republicans "get" the meaning of IX/XI perfectly well. even Gordo's pals down at the local Young Fascists Club get it.
still no word on when the sisters of Delta Chi are gonna sign up, but let's all have a toast to Gordo's pals in the Yellow Republican Movement.
Oh, and SallyH I know a great deal about the NCLB because many of my friends teach at the Junior and High School levels--they have no time for anything other than teaching to the test. However, the lucky few who teach in the tony public school districts have no such worries, they don't need any stinckin funds from the feds or state--their kids have music, languages--like Japanese, chinese, Russian, history courses galore to choose from, environmental sci, and hosts of advanced classes of which to partake. Yet another class divide.
"Are we really supposed to be that stupid?"
absolutely, 51% proved without a doubt nov 2004.
=
And what the F*, the first 9/11 wasn't good enough for you. I thought Rove said the libruls were the ones who didn't get 9/11!
lutton 06.25.05 - 12:42 pm
Just a reminder. The fighting in Iraq has nothing to do with the 9/11 attack.
Let's look at that Pew Poll:
Republicans and Democrats now hold sharply divergent views on a range of foreign policy attitudes, including the use of torture, the proper balance between fighting terrorism and protecting civil liberties, and even
the root causes of the 9/11 attacks. Since late September 2001, a growing number of Democrats (51%) and
independents (45%) believe that U.S. wrongdoing in dealings with other countries might have motivated the
9/11 attacks. Republicans reject that view even more decisively than three years ago (76% now, 65% in late
September 2001).
So - Democrats AND Independents think there might have been a "motivation" for the 9/11 attacks, while Republicans (as usual) put their hands over their eyes and refuse to accept any information that might help prevent future attacks on the commonwealth if it doesn't fit in to their preconceived, already-proven-wrong notions on how the world works.
This makes the Republicans look good exactly how???
"as long as they have a steady stream of volunteers"
"If there's a need presented, I would go"
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Profiles in excuse-making.
absolutely, 51% proved without a doubt nov 2004.
=
zoot
At least try to keep up...
Gordo's first name is Cabeza.
Draft the contented chickens. Send them to get their asses shot off in the war they favor other peoples' asses getting shot off in. No exemptions, no favored treatment. Deployment to Iraq guaranteed. Draft the chickenhawks up to the age of 65.
All it means is that half of Dems are smart enough to think: "Hm. Maybe heavy-handed interventionist US policies pissed some of these fundies off enough that they got these crazy murderous evil plans in their heads..."
I'd also interpret "wrongdoing" as incompetence. It didn't take a genius to recognize the Islamicist threat, yet the GOP idiots got themselves so tangled in their own idiotic jihads that they couldn't see it and still have no clue how to deal with it.
Rove is a dick for many reasons, but him admitting that "conservatives prepared for war after 9/11" is stunning. They weren't prepared beforehand, meaning they're stupid. Then they started a war that had NOTHING to do with 9/11, botched it, and made the original threat worse! That's criminal.
GOP = wankers.
No imag--I hear you on that. And it's getting worse all the time. The whole motivation appears to be dismantling public education. Without public education, it's nearly impossible to have a democratic society. No wonder the Republicans are so hot on this.
Sallyh... I'm not one of those ready to condemn Durbin for his apology on the floor. How do we know he and/or his family were not threatened if he didn't do it? We know that pressure is applied in these times, and rather forcefully.
The problem for progressives is that this has become a revolving door:
1) Democrats say anything critical & the right wing echo chamber smears them. This is part of a larger, successful effort to shout down anyone that criticizes the Repubs.
2)Democrats become hesitant to say anything critical. As a result, they appear to the public to be wishy washy.
3) As a result, the American voters are reluctant to put them in power.
REPEAT ENDLESSLY
BTW, I looked at Durbin's actual statements. All he said was that, looking at the transcripts of the torture taking place at Git, if one didn't know, they'd think they were talking about the nazis or Russian communists.
This is a pretty innocuous statement.
dave--who are our sponsors for this segment?
New gems from Wolcott now available for your Liberal Elitist reading pleasure.
Draft the chickenhawks up to the age of 65.
EPT
Don't most of those pricks support SS reforms like raising the retirement age? Hell, draft em up to 70!!
Carter--if you're not a Republican, you can't even make innocuous statements anymore. I think you're not supposed to make ANY statements.
"I'm not one of those ready to condemn Durbin for his apology on the floor. How do we know he and/or his family were not threatened if he didn't do it? We know that pressure is applied in these times, and rather forcefully"
Then what to stop him from resigning when he had the chance? His supposed crime would, in the minds of some, be grounds enough to resign so had he done so it would not have been a shock enough to consider whether he had been threatened.
No. This had nothing to do with it.
Durbin chickened out.
MYOB'
.
Thersites - I still say that neither Rove, nor Bush nor Cheney nor any of the rest of them give one good goddamn about terrorism.
They fucking do not care. They are not concerned at all. They have done exactly 0 about it.
It was always about the Iraq War and the attack was a fucking excuse. They don't care about terrorism - it's the biggest lie they tell.
In NYC, by intensive, narrow teaching to the test, the Board of Ed managed to raise reading and math scores a few percentage points. But 85% of eight graders failed the Social Studies exam. In a school district of 1,100,000+ students, that is a lot kids failing.
MYOB--I'm just saying that I'll give people the benefit of the doubt at first.
GOP chickenhawks wear T-Shirts, and let the darker people's actually fight the war.
Gordo's pals are a case in point.
PS: using images from Gordo's own directory gives me, the author of the moniker "Gordo The Imaginary Iraq Veteran" great and good pleasure.
fuck the chickenhawks and their cowardly huzzah's.
these people have no shame, do they?
Can someone give me their addresses, I'd like to drag their white butts down to the recruiting offices. Maybe I can work out a deal with the Army; I bring in 2 of these Republican elitists and they'll lift the 2yr+ stop loss order on my Godson who should have been able to leave the service after 8yrs of enlistment in late 2002.
These people are the true heirs of Cheney, DeLay and Boosh. Cowards all. Elitists pricks all.
The report that Gordo keeps pushing says the following:
"Since late September 2001, a growing number of Democrats (51%) and independents (45%) believe that U.S. wrongdoing in dealings with other countries might have motivated the 9/11 attacks."
So we're playing with emotionally charged words here.
America = the people
or
America = foreign policy
The poll question does not say Democrats and independents blame America for 9/11. It says to me that appointed officials, with little or no democratic accountability to the people of America, have persistently pursued policies that motivated the attack.
I know these subtlies don't make for good bumper stickers.
Now I must turn to Noam Chomsky for clarification:
September 11 shocked many Americans into an awareness that they had better pay much closer attention to what the US government does in the world and how it is perceived. Many issues have been opened for discussion that were not on the agenda before. That's all to the good.
It is also the merest sanity, if we hope to reduce the likelihood of future atrocities. It may be comforting to pretend that our enemies "hate our freedoms," as President Bush stated, but it is hardly wise to ignore the real world, which conveys different lessons.
The president is not the first to ask: "Why do they hate us?" In a staff discussion 44 years ago, President Eisenhower described "the campaign of hatred against us [in the Arab world], not by the governments but by the people". His National Security Council outlined the basic reasons: the US supports corrupt and oppressive governments and is "opposing political or economic progress" because of its interest in controlling the oil resources of the region.
Post-September 11 surveys in the Arab world reveal that the same reasons hold today, compounded with resentment over specific policies. Strikingly, that is even true of privileged, western-oriented sectors in the region. To cite just one recent example: in the August 1 issue of Far Eastern Economic Review, the internationally recognised regional specialist Ahmed Rashid writes that in Pakistan "there is growing anger that US support is allowing [Musharraf's] military regime to delay the promise of democracy". Today we do ourselves few favours by choosing to believe that "they hate us" and "hate our freedoms". On the contrary, these are attitudes of people who like Americans and admire much about the US, including its freedoms. What they hate is official policies that deny them the freedoms to which they too aspire.
http://humanities.psydeshow.org/...l/chomsky-
4.htm
NMRed--I believe the correct expression is 'fat white butts.'
Once again, this story was printed Sept. 1, 2004. So a lot of the excuses the youth give -- i.e., "as long as volunteers are pouring in there's no need" -- obviously no longer applies.
I would LOVE to know what the current excuses these kids are giving. They can't get away with saying "they don't need us" anymore.
...who are our sponsors for this segment?
Your local 7-Up bottler and distributor!
"Turn Un" to the "Uncola"!!!
i think it's good to stay away from hitler comparisons, godwins law and all that.
but durbin was 100 percent right, if you didn't know, you would have thought it something from a totalitarian regime.
problem is a lot of people seem to be ok with that. they want revenge, and frighteningly they don't seem to care from whom they exact it.
problem is a lot of people seem to be ok with that. they want revenge, and frighteningly they don't seem to care from whom they exact it.
charley more pissed off by the | Homepage | 06.25.05 - 1:07 pm | #
The ritual sexual humiliation of Arabs is very important to the right. We have to get our own back after 9/11.
It's a sort of mass, slow-motion lynching. Murka approves. Old times there are not forgotten.
.
Chickenhawks want another 9/11. They crave war. They *need* an enemy. They will invent one. It's what they are all about.
Jeff Shafer's Email (most likely):
jshafer@wharton.upenn.edu
.
Once again, this story was printed Sept. 1, 2004.
Well, shoot. I didn't notice that when I clicked on the link.
I would LOVE to know what the current excuses these kids are giving. They can't get away with saying "they don't need us" anymore.
I guess that leaves them with the old "I can contribute more here at home!" excuse.
Sallyh - you're right - I need to drag their fat white butts to the recruiting office.
Need more caffiene. Nurse! A new IV please!
I guess that leaves them with the old "I can contribute more here at home!" excuse.
Sure, cuz ya know, nothing says I Love America like slapping a "Support The Troops" magnet on the back of your Hummer.
Chickenhawks want another 9/11. They crave war. They *need* an enemy. They will invent one. It's what they are all about.
It's the widsom of the ages:
"This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs: when he first appears, he is a protector." -- PLATO, The Republic
chickenhawks sure did miss their old red nemesis
you can't teach cold warriors new tactics
once upon a time they could do any crime
just say "communist" we got in line
the cold war is over what have we won
the killers we trained turned around their guns
you know that wingnuts called it the third world war
they should wear foil so we know who they are
global hegemony requires an evil enemy
and from the sky came blessed infamy
rummy and wolfy thanked their lucky stars
the towers went down and they got war
another terror war so what will we win
a primo place on top of history's dustbin
you know that wingnuts call this the fourth world war
they should wear foil so we know who they are
the fix is on at the pentagon
so rally the morons we need billions
it's just like old times a blank check for crime
just say "terrorist" we'll get in line
the meek inherit earth that's what they say
cuz in the end the strong will blow themselves away
you know that wingnuts want this to be a holy war
they should wear foil so we know who they are
The ritual sexual humiliation of Arabs is very important to the right. We have to get our own back after 9/11.
GMT-
it's not just that, it's a whole different mindset between those running our country and the rest of the world. the council of europe has wondered publicly if extraditing an american criminal home may be a violation of his/her human rights, since the us exercises the death penalty as most of europe looks on with horror.
That kid who said "I think I could do more here" is right in the tradition of Dick Cheney, who didn't join up in the Vietnam War because "I had other priorities."
I'd enlist if I thought I could be a suicide bomber.
Encourage all members of the military forces to frag their commanders.
NAJAF, Iraq (Reuters) - Students in the Shi'ite Muslim religious Iraqi city of Najaf said that police recently arrested and beat several of them for wearing jeans and having long hair.
"They arrested us because of our hair and because we were wearing jeans," said student Mohammed Jasim, adding that the arrests took place two weeks ago
yay Bush's democracy!
We know the true extent of Republican "patriotism": "Someone has to go die to carry out the policies of Dear Leader - but not me!"
I'd enlist if I thought I could be a suicide bomber.
Liberal Islamist
Yeah, those wacky liberal Islamists! Stoning women to death for adultery while supporting women's rights, supporting gay marriage while railing against the decadent permissiveness of the West, worshipping Allah while hating religion...we're all mixed up!
NAJAF, Iraq (Reuters) - Students in the Shi'ite Muslim religious Iraqi city of Najaf said that police recently arrested and beat several of them for wearing jeans and having long hair.
The schools! Remember the schools we're building! Come on, you unpatriotic liberal commie scum! Can't you see all the schools we're building over there?
I dunno, I have to admit to being a coward too. I mean, I supported the war in Afghanistan after 9-11, I thought it kind of had to happen and I'd wished it was done better, but, figure that if I were President, I'd have done the same.
I still wasn't about to sign up.
I understand the frustration with outright war mongers who won't fight. But this is a good thing about our system, in a way. You don't have to be military to have an opinion on the use of the military. It's meant to serve the civilian government.
Every sane citizen ought to be writing letters to local papers and TV stations. Mock the shit out of all Republicans, young and old, the mommies and the daddies who keep their spawn out of combat. The simpering "Christians" who say anything goes in the Middle East except them, the teenage girls doing high fives and flashing their starry eyes at images of Bush. The lawyers and accountants and the newscasters who hide behind their families and the jobs and their privileges. Mock them till they are sick to their stomachs. That's the American Way!
"Frankly, I want to be a politician. I'd like to survive to see that," said Vivian Lee, 17, a war supporter visiting the convention from Los Angeles,
Oh, so you'd like to be a lying, sack of shit, sociopath? Well Viv, good news! You're well on your way. I say that we should arrange a nice field trip for these pathetic little scumbags. I've got it, let's bus them all down to the military morgue at Dover Air Force base; let 'em get a real good look at what their heroes Bush, Rove, Mehlman et al have done; let these little fat assed chicken shit bastards see the REAL cost of the war. If a field trip isn't possible, how about assembling a town hall type meeting with an audience made up of family members who have lost loved ones in the war. The little darlings can stand at the podium and give a presentation about why they support the war (but won't actually go and fight, of course). How about it, chickenhawk bastards? You wanna grow up to be politicians just like Unka Karl and Georgie? Here's your shout. One thing though, unlike George and Karl, you don't get to pick and choose your audience.
Should be "here's your shot" Damn! Typos suck!!
How do you spell republican?
C-H-I-C-K-E-N-S-H-I-T
I assume with that logic Atrios will be joining the UN or the Baath party shortly.
"I'm all for the war, so long as someone else goes to fight it.
Preferably someone with less money that my family has!"
"the Young Republicans or the College Republicans."
The latter day Hitler Youth.
"the teenage girls doing high fives and flashing their starry eyes at images of Bush"
You have to be kidding!
Any woman who would find THAT sack of shit the LEAST bit attractive is as empty-headed as HE is!
Sorry to go off-topic, but today's Howler is particularly stunning.
.
nobody | Homepage | 06.25.05 - 11:30 am | #
Reading the linked article gave me the strange feeling that the whole thing was a setup--Tenant and Powell served only to 'take the bullet' for Cheney and Bush
Cowardice is a short step from pacifism..
This is exactly the kind of stuff Republicans are so happpy to find here in the comments.
Comments like this are the product of knee-jerk liberalism, that three-day old fish of short-sighted thinking.
Your comment that pacifism is a progression from cowardice is ridiculous. The criticisms above noting Ghandi and MLK are true; Pacifism most often results from the wisdom borne of war and conflict.
Pacifism is the intelligent and constructive outcome of unecessarily destructive conflict. It is what smart people learn after war has destroyed.
Cowardice is exemplified in the comments of people like Karl Rove, who never fought from anywhere but the top of the hill, who never looked another soldier in the eye, preferring instead to firebomb villages from aircraft to deny a single enemy soldier shelter. That is cowardice and it DOES NOT breed pacifism, but only more cowardly acts.
I think a "white feather" campaign is in order. Start sending white feathers to any and every young repug until they get the message. Better yet, send a shitload to Congress...
Here I find myself in Florida, surrounded by these types. Rah-rah and magnetic car ribbons everywhere.
I'm thinking of making myself a t-shirt that says simply "ENLIST or STFU."
"The schools! Remember the schools we're building!"
nobody said anything about BUILDING schools; we're just PAINTING them for a couple billion.
=
"Pacifism is the intelligent and constructive outcome of unecessarily destructive conflict. It is what smart people learn after war has destroyed."
Bullshit. Pacifism in the face of injustice along the lines of Ghandi or MLK worked because the systems they were defying were essentially just. Their pacifism counterpointed the injustices and enabled free societies to react favorably through public opinion. Pacifism along the same lines always has and always will fail against any autocratic system.
Pacifism is an enabled philosophy. It exists by the sufferance of the opponent or because those willing to defend the pacifists through strength of arms do so.
Peace at all costs does NOT work. Peace through strength of arms does.
"Frankly, I want to be a politician. I'd like to survive to see that," said Vivian Lee, 17, a war supporter visiting the convention from Los Angeles,
Doesn't she know that her duty as a good little Repugnican is to get married, stay in the kitchen and pump out more little Repugnicans - preferably one a year?
"Peace at all costs does NOT work. Peace through strength of arms does.
JPT"
???????????????????
"That's what liberals do. They create government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't."
Oh, it only makes sense for the RICH to have health care.
I'd enlist if I thought I could be a suicide bomber.
Liberal Islamist
Ya wanna start with Bush and his cabinet?
Bullshit. Pacifism in the face of injustice along the lines of Ghandi or MLK worked because the systems they were defying were essentially just.
JPT
Ah... thank you, radical right troll for saying that apartheid and Jim Crow is essentially just. You have just proven all of those allegations about racism on the radical right true.
(You did realise that Gandhi started his career in apartheid South Africa.)
As for the British colonialists being just and not being autocratic... I guess you forgot to poll all of the Indians and Pakistanis and Burmese and Hong Kongers that got to vote for Governor. What? There were none? Oh, that's because the British Empire even in to the 1990s was an autocratic one-sided affair. {Long live Fatty Patten and his institution of direct voting for LegCo!}
Goo goo ga joob.
Terry - ask the Swiss.
Tom, moron, NOTHING but their owns deaths would have been gained by MLK or Gandhi had they been dealing with anything other than a just society. The injustices they fought were PART of those societies, but both men knew that damn well that the societies at large - the SYSTEMS of those particular polities - offered the chance of change using their methods. You want to know how pacifism fairs in other circumstances? Ask the Buddhists in Cambodia under Pol Pot. Oh...wait.
"Ah... thank you, radical right troll for saying that apartheid and Jim Crow is essentially just. You have just proven all of those allegations about racism on the radical right true."
Now this is a perfect example of an ignorant asshole with poor reading comprehension.
JPT is right.
George Orwell wrote that if Gandhi was up against the Nazis, he would have been run over by a tank. It's in one of his wartime essays or broadcasts to India.
Orwell also wrote during the war that pacifists were "objectively pro-fascist," because he knew that if you weren't willing to fight the Nazis, the Nazis would win.
Of course Orwell was no chickhawk, having taken a bullet in the neck during the Spanish Civil War fighting for the POUM militia against Franco.
This is not a commentary on the present war, which is a bloody fiasco, but rather pointing out that pacifism as an inflexible rule is ridiculous.
These creeps speak for themselves.
Reminds me of that great film "If" by Lindsay Anderson, in which Malcolm MacDowell plays a young boarding school cut-up who turns radical and ends up machine-gunning parents, teachers, administrators, fellow students at the school convocation.
Great stuff. Wish I had thought of it myself (the movie, that is, not the carnage).
The link only had this: "The requested article was not found." Too embarrassing for the overly sensitive young Republican elite?
I've considered enlisting but I could never work for Bush. If it had been Gore, I would have.
Yeah, the article seems to have been pulled from Knight Ridder's site. What was its title? If I know that, I can Google for it in Google News.
ON PFC. SAMANTHA HUFF
(Buried Arlington National Cemetary
April 28, 2005)
The color guard is in state array,
And the muffled sound of martial feet
In our sorrows did meet
As quietly in demise you lay--
That you could not wait
In time too late,
Your appointment with duty, kept you,
To the last heartbeat true;
And we knew, that you could not stay.
--Michael John Beisch
Tucson, AZ
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