I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Liberals hat their country first and foremost.
.
dunno...think I saw it's 6 months vs 4..
OOOOhhhhhhh!
Can I guess?
C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y ?
I know what visceral contempt is... I've been experiencing recurring waves of it recently, especially when I think.
Note to self: Try to avoid that.
USDOJ Criminal Resource Manual part the 754, Criminal versus Civil Contempt.
Liberals hat their country first and foremost.
Actually, I usually hat my children first, and then put on their mittens. Only then do I hat my country.
I love my country. But I think we need to start seeing other people.
They should steal her wig.
Imagine her wigless with Richard Perle...
Liberals hat their country first and foremost.
Yeah Dave, us liberals hat our country.
Or do we hat the liars in the WH who are ruining our country? Maybe we hat it that conservatives hat the truth? Perhaps we hat the asshats in the press for allowing BushCo to get away with lie after lie after lie.
Maybe in your haste to post yet another moronic comment, you neglected to look it over before you sent it.
Cooper's giving an exclusive interview with Dan Abrams on Monday, and one presumes that he's filing for TIME on his grand jury appointment this weekend.
I just want to see how many versions of ridiculousness the Wingnut Veterans For Unka Karl go through by the time we get to the Sunday gasbags.
Hmmmm, if I had to guess, I would say that the line between "civil" contempt and "criminal" contempt occurs at the point where a person's refusal to testify puts them in the category of obstructing justice or complicit in covering for a criminal.
Which seems to be Fitzpatrick's thinking. Judy isn't protecting a source; she's refusing to testify about witnessing a crime - which is in itself a criminal action.
Hey David, let me be the first to tell you to shut the fuck up, and take it like a man.
Have a nice day.
Civil contempt would be a judge deciding that she is not cooperating with a grand jury, and putting her in jail in order to get her to talk. It is something that the judge can do by fiat,without a trail. In the case of the Grand Jury, she can only be jailed for the term of the grand jury - which in this case is until October.
Criminal contempt would be punishment, not cooersion. It would involve a trail, and more jail time...
If thats the case Fitzgerald is really serious...
I see that after I went to bed, the NYT's broke the state dept memo.
This is obviously the first story that isn't spin/bullshit leaked by rove/luskin.
What I'm wondering, moonbats, is who leaked the stuff in the article to the NY slimes..
No David Patterson.
We hate God first and foremost.
Then we hate our country.
Then we hate motherhood.
In that order.
Didn't you get the memo? Can't you keep your story straight?
Anyone want to explain where the line beteween civil and criminal contempt is?
No, I'm still working on my online degree.
Give me a few.
Liberals hat their country first and foremost.
We have to - prevents sunstroke and cancer.
hats? Hittites?
Mr. Patterson,
Your are as lacking in manners and common sense as you are in spelling.
I will make sure I wear a hat while on holiday in Tunisia so I don't suffer sun stroke or get sunburn.
I wear a hat a great deal of the time.
Either that or a do-rag.
Cooper's giving an exclusive interview with Dan Abrams on Monday, and one presumes that he's filing for TIME on his grand jury appointment this weekend.
I read somewhere today that Cooper is on Meet the Press and Reliable Sources tomorrow morning. Can't wait to hear Howie pimping for Rove.
"In that order.
Didn't you get the memo? Can't you keep your story straight?
Ba'a"
Don't leave out apple pie!
Some quotes from the DOJ site:
Because different substantive and procedural rules apply to civil and criminal contempts, distinctions between the two forms of contempt are important. "Criminal contempt is a crime in the ordinary sense,"
A contempt is criminal when punishment by way of fine or imprisonment is deemed imperative to vindicate the authority of the court. In contrast, civil contempt is remedial rather than punitive, serves only the purpose of the party litigant, and is intended to coerce compliance with an order of the court or to compensate for losses or damages caused by noncompliance.
A proceeding in criminal contempt is a separate and independent proceeding at law from the main cause, with the public on one side and the defendant on the other.
Because the primary aim of a criminal contempt action is vindication of the authority of the court and punishment for disobedience already accomplished, the general rule is that purging of contempt is not a complete defense in a criminal contempt action. Consequently, a person found guilty of criminal contempt may be sentenced to a fixed and definite term of imprisonment, or be required to pay an unconditional fine.
D to the fucking P is here again?
It has to be an attempt at humor.
In times like these, I turn to the lord....now where's that bourbon?
terminate the bitch. /kidding/.
but it is criminal, and uncivil what this administration has done to this country.
hat 
Thanks to those who've explained Atrios' question. I'm not so conversant with the law, and would just as soon throw Judy into Abu Ghraib.
My question is this: would a judgment against Ms. Miller for criminal contempt make her a felon?
And if so, if Ms. Miller remained in the employ of the Times, could the Times claim "felony convinction" as a legitimate reason for denying someone employment?
the Bush junta are criminals of the first degree.
Bush and his cronies are singlehandly destroying America laughing while they do it.
He can't think without his hat.
top hat?
bowler hats?
[Draco would} just as soon throw Judy into Abu Ghraib.
I'd prefer to see her in the DC jail, but then I'm a truly nasty and vindictive sumbitch.
Looks like Judy is gonna be singing the prison blues. And it also looks like Fitzgerald has completed the puzzle.
Judy could be outsourced to a foregin jail.
I wear my hat for my country at a jaunty angle.
.
Liberals hat their country first and foremost.
Yes, a nice gatsby or newboy at a jaunty angle...snappy fedoras and wide-brimmed porkpies...we want our country to look its best!
Looks like Judy is gonna be singing the prison blues. And it also looks like Fitzgerald has completed the puzzle.
Couldn't happen to a more deserving "reporter".
Moonbootica,
For "interrogation of an unknown nature", perhaps? After all, our Middle East allies would never torture prisoners in our care; I'm sure Ms. Miller would have nothing to be worried about.
Moonbootica sez:
Judy could be outsourced to a foregin jail.
Extraordinary rendition for Judy!
.
New TV reality show:
Miller Time: Extreme Rendition
Hey, don't laugh. I Want to be a Hilton proves that anything has a shot these days.
top hat?
bowler hats?
ass hat
Of course, you can expect some trouble getting a job later, with such a dissertation on your record.
Uncle Smokes - Actually, you can expect trouble getting a job if you have any dissertation as part of your record. Even one dealing with, oh, military intelligence in North Persia, Iraq and Russia. It's just one of those things.
I hat my country, but I heart New York.
Judy's column could be 'Tails from a Prision Cell'
Anybody know how much Miller's jail time could be lengthened? Months? Years?
Abrams "Any resort to criminal law would constitute a sad, even tragic, escalation of this controversy," he said.
It has to be revealing that Abrams was chosen as the attorney here as his past reveals so much crap with the republican party. They all have something on the other.
The tragic part (the criminal act)has already occurred. A bigger tragedy would be to let all these elected, and appointed repuglican crooks continue to destroy the country. The preznit should never be allowed to especially appoint anybody to the Supreme Court--just for a start. Unless these people are properly disposed (jailed I would hope) we will never again have anything that looks like a democracy and I say that with the knowledge that it never has been one anyway.
Let's hope the criminal contempt moves forward at a fast pace.
D. Patterson: gives a whole new meaning to ass-hat.
good morning!
yeah, what's the point of "extraordinary rendition" to non-U.S. interrogators except to soften-up recalcitrant witnesses like Judy if they won't squeal about their anti-American activities?
I had to read all the way to the last paragraph to get to this:
But [the account given in the State Department memo] appears to differ in at least one way, raising questions about whether it was the original source of the material that ultimately made its way to Mr. Novak. In his July 14, 2003, column, Mr. Novak referred to Ms. Wilson as Valerie Plame. The State Department memorandum referred to her as Valerie Wilson, according to the government official who reread it on Friday.
maybe Jud could investigate what happened to the prisoners who were outsourced to places like Syria and Uzbeistan
Seriously --
Anybody have a theory about why
Judy went to jail?
Obviously, she's not protecting
some kind of journalistic
privilege.......
Ba'al --
I hate baseball and apple pie, too. At least baseball with steroids and apple pie with raisins.
Got my Phillies hat on right now... Gotta love Kaus: "So, it's entirely possible, and it'll be another case if it all fizzles out. It will be another case of the left, you know, going crazy about something, and having it fizzle, which has been their tendency of late."
new thread up stairs
David P. --
You better stop beret-ing liberals before you get a cap in you ass.
.
Conservatives should be introduced to the helmet. Beats a hat in certain situations.
Just a thought...
What's going to happen after the GJ hands down indictments to Ari, Scooter, Rove, et al? By that time the truth will be out. Will the wingnuts still defend them?
I'm guessing they will.
davey is doing the best he can.
-J.T.
Does anyone think Rummy might have been the leak to Judith Miller
Our country's great. It's just diseased by selfish pigs abusing ignorant Christians to take money away from the lower and middle classes. These leaders could give a shit about the country.
It's been years since I was involved in a criminal contempt case on the federal level (pre-sentencing guidelines) but here's what I remember about it. Back then, it was neither a felony nor a misdemenor, it just was. The sentence was open ended. I was involved in two such cases. In one, the guy got 5 years. What the guy did was lie to a federal judge about not having certain records that were subpoenaed. There was a search warrant and the records were in his garage. The same judge he lied to is the one that he was tried before. The other thing about criminal contempt, which isn't as relevant anymore because you do 85% of your federal time now, not 1/3, like it used to be, is that what you get is what you serve. If you get 5 years, you do 5 years.
GWPDA - see, that "dissertation" and, worse yet, that "PhD" make you one o' them overedumacated interlekshuls, who are all pinko commie liberals who hat our glorious homeland. And even worse, you're a woman who should never have overheated your frilly little brain with tha overedumacation. /wingnut
Yeah, nail Judy's lying ass with a criminal charge!
What's going to happen after the GJ hands down indictments to Ari, Scooter, Rove, et al? By that time the truth will be out. Will the wingnuts still defend them?
I'm guessing they will.
cynicalgirl
It will just prove how "partisan" this whole process is...That meddling liberal Fitzgerald! What? He's what? Not a dem? Well then HE is a TRAITOR!
.
Obviously, she's not protecting
some kind of journalistic
privilege.......
steve simels
steve, my brother, whassup?
Five will get you ten that the old girl is a'fearin' for her life.
I think Judy was let in on some real big secrets in the past few years. The kind that if you divulge, you get dead.
GWPDA - see, that "dissertation" and, worse yet, that "PhD" make you one o' them overedumacated interlekshuls, who are all pinko commie liberals who hat our glorious homeland. And even worse, you're a woman who should never have overheated your frilly little brain with tha overedumacation. /wingnut
You forgot the part about taking a job away from a man who needs one! 
Conservatives should be introduced to the helmet. Beats a hat in certain situations.
LR -
Would that be the big purple helmet?
The following descriptions of elements for a finding of criminal contempt of court are taken from N.C. state statutes, but these elements are essentially the same in federal law:
Contempt of Court Statutes
Click on a statute title for the full text. For statutes on other topics, choose from the drop-down menu.
Absolute Divorce Alimony Child Custody Child Support Collaborative Divorce Contempt of Court Domestic Violence Local Rules Mediation and Other Alternatives Property Division Separation Agreement
§ 5A-11. Criminal contempt
§ 5A-12. Punishment; circumstances for fine or imprisonment; reduction of punishment; other measures
§ 5A-13. Direct and indirect criminal contempt; proceedings required
§ 5A-14. Summary proceedings for contempt
§ 5A-15. Plenary proceedings for contempt
§ 5A-16. Custody of person charged with criminal contempt
§ 5A-21. Civil contempt; imprisonment to compel compliance
§ 5A-22. Release when civil contempt no longer continues
§ 5A-23. Proceedings for civil contempt
§ 5A-24. Appeals
§ 5A-25. Proceedings as for contempt and civil contempt
Contempt Statutes
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
§ 5A-11. Criminal contempt
(a) Except as provided in subsection (b), each of the following is criminal contempt:
(1) Willful behavior committed during the sitting of a court and directly tending to interrupt its proceedings.
(2) Willful behavior committed during the sitting of a court in its immediate view and presence and directly tending to impair the respect due its authority.
(3) Willful disobedience of, resistance to, or interference with a court's lawful process, order, directive, or instruction or its execution.
(4) Willful refusal to be sworn or affirmed as a witness, or, when so sworn or affirmed, willful refusal to answer any legal and proper question when the refusal is not legally justified.
(5) Willful publication of a report of the proceedings in a court that is grossly inaccurate and presents a clear and present danger of imminent and serious threat to the administration of justice, made with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false. No person, however, may be punished for publishing a truthful report of proceedings in a court.
(6) Willful or grossly negligent failure by an officer of the court to perform his duties in an official transaction.
(7) Willful or grossly negligent failure to comply with schedules and practices of the court resulting in substantial interference with the business of the court.
(
Willful refusal to testify or produce other information upon the order of a judge acting pursuant to Article 61 of Chapter 15A, Granting of Immunity to Witnesses.
(9) Willful communication with a juror in an improper attempt to influence his deliberations.
(9a) Willful refusal by a defendant to comply with a condition of probation.
IMHO, Miller is toast if Fitzgerald pursues a charge of criminal contempt.
This whole saga would make a great movie, with Warren Beatty as POTUS/drunken pimp, and Julie Christie as the NYT reporter/worldly-whore. I'd call it "McChimp and Mrs. Miller."
Contempt is a very unusual charge. It is the only legal situation where you can be pronounced guilty without being tried - that's civil contempt. All a judge has to do is to find you in contempt, and you're guilty.
I have never heard of criminal contempt before, but I suppose that there would be a trial involved and the findings would have to be that there is willful contempt occurring.
I'm surprised he didn't choose to prosecute her with obstruction of justice, which would seem more a propos.
Eternal summer gilds them yet, but all except their son is set.
Seriously --
Anybody have a theory about why
Judy went to jail?
Obviously, she's not protecting
some kind of journalistic
privilege.......
Book deal?
Martyr complex?
Needs to prove what a tough cookie she is?
Your guess is as good as mine.
No David Patterson.
We hate God first and foremost.
Then we hate our country.
Then we hate motherhood.
In that order.
And puppies. You forgot puppies.
Civil contempt: The failure to obey a court order that was issued for another party's benefit. (Coercive)
Criminal contempt: An act that obstructs justice or attacks the integrity of the court. (Punitive)
---Black's Law Dictionary, 7th ed.
Considering the only "leaks" in the investigation so far have come from Luskin/Rove, this should probably be taken with a grain of salt. Sympathy play for poor, poor Judy Miller.
Fitzgerald doesn't leak.
What if Judy Miller herself is a NOC ?
fitzgerald's ability to keep such control of the investigation is a wonderful contrast to that exhibited by ken starr.
there have been fuck all leaks coming out of this grand jury -- no steno sue's this time around.
if there is any further evidence needed of what a partisan witchhunt starr was a part of, the conduct of this investigations should settle it.
What if Judy Miller herself is a NOC ?
Agents with NOC are not permitted to pose as journalists.
What's going to happen after the GJ hands down indictments to Ari, Scooter, Rove, et al? By that time the truth will be out. Will the wingnuts still defend them?
Absolutely. That's why they're called brownshirts.
That's why they should all be treated as traitors and collaborators.
What if Judy Miller herself is a NOC ?
"...as always, should you or any of your IM force be caught or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions..."
Bwaaak! Liberals hate their country.
Bwaaak! Terrorists!
Bwaaak! Smoking gun mushroom cloud!
Bwaaak! Gimme a cracker Uncle Karl!
The difference benn watergate and plamegate is this:
When wapo was doing watergate, there was no one else looking at it besides wapo. Special prosecutor and senate committees came much later. On Plamegate, we have had an aggressive special prosecutor for 2 yrs. And 3-judge circuit court panel and district judge Hogan are with the prosecutor all the way. Fitz must have showed some explosive stuff to the judges and the judges have been hinting, some times explicitly, that they saw some national security stufff. So the case is not reporters and leaks. Some serious stuff is going on. The prosecutor would not be wasting his time and reputation on chicken feed stuff.
He wants Judy Miller for something big. Even if he doesn't get her, he must have enough of a case. Otherwise, judges wouldn't be taking his side. This is American legal system at its finest. Let the case build itself. We just have to wait.
Rove is doing what he does best - doing PR war. This is much more than PR and newspaper leaks.
Dontcha' just LOVE the way that sentence from the WP story is phrased?
"Lawyers in the CIA leaks investigation are concerned that special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald may seek criminal contempt charges against New York Times reporter Judith Miller, a rare move that could significantly lengthen her time in jail."
Hey, dickweeds! (In this case, none other than Howard "Mistah" Kurtz and Carol D. Leonnig.) Why don't you just fucking say that MILLER's attorney (and perhaps Karl Rove's attorney) are upset about this?
As you admit, halfway into the article, Matt Cooper's attorney doesn't think Fitz is being overly harsh at all:
Matthew Cooper, a Time magazine reporter also subpoenaed in the case, avoided Miller's fate July 6 by agreeing to testify about his conversations with Rove. But three days earlier, Cooper's attorney, Richard Sauber, said in an interview yesterday, Fitzgerald told him during negotiations over Cooper's testimony that his client could well face criminal contempt charges.
Fitzgerald was playing "hardball" and "was trying to get Matt and Judy to comply with the judge's order," Sauber said, adding that he did not consider the threat "over the top."
"Fitzgerald indicated personally to me that was one of his options," Sauber said of their July 3 conversation. He quoted Fitzgerald as telling him: "I'm going to ask the judge to remind these people they risk criminal contempt and it is certainly an option for me." Sauber said he is "convinced" that Fitzgerald "still might" file criminal charges against Miller.
And further on, we find this:
...Criminal contempt findings are very rare, legal experts said, because prosecutors usually seek them only in extreme circumstances or when a person engages in a pattern of defying the law.
Or when the prosecutor knows that at least one person involved is lying out his or her ass. But I digress.
...Sauber said the tactic was not unexpected in light of a recent case involving Rhode Island television reporter Jim Taricani, who was convicted in December of criminal contempt for refusing to reveal the name of the person who gave him an FBI videotape in a corruption investigation.
Again, Cooper's lawyer is saying that this is not the horrible miscarriage of justice that Miller's (and again, probably Rove's) lawyer is claiming it to be.
And here's the key thing: Fitzgerald's judicial bosses agree with him and are backing him to the hilt.
But in this closely held investigation, federal appeals court judges of very different ideological stripes and Hogan have reviewed secret evidence and have agreed that Miller's and Cooper's claims of a right to protect their sources is outweighed by the public interest in investigating a possible breach of national security.
"National security", boyos. Not a goddamned stained dress.
The collective genitalia of the damned GOP/Media Axis just get stiff as hell at the mere suggestion of wrongdoing on the part of politically successful Democrats, or at the mindless invasion of a country with tons of oil and no nukes, or the "patriotic" destruction of our civil liberties in the false pretense of preserving our national security.
But let somebody like Patrick Fitzgerald do something that really DOES aid our national security, and watch the corporate media lackeys howl.
Which is why the following doesn't make me feel anything for Judy Miller, other than the urge to laugh in her Junta-protecting, Chalabi-loving, PNAC-pimping face:
Legal experts who have monitored the public twists of Fitzgerald's investigation say the prosecutor has been relentless in running down every fact, an approach that may increase the chances he would seek criminal contempt.
"I think Judith Miller is in much graver danger than she might be otherwise, because this prosecutor seems to want to pursue every avenue with a vengeance," said Mary Cheh, a professor of criminal law at George Washington University. "I'd be very worried."
Awwwww. Pooooor baaaabeeeee Judy-Woody.
English Translation: She lied like a rug to save herself and her White House/PNAC buddies, Fitz knows it, and is going to nail her for it.
Awwww.
Heh! Ecoast said what I just said, only much more succinctly and without the cuss words. 
If Judith Miller is charged with criminal contempt or another felony (passing an agent's name, obstruction of justice), wouldn't she be let out of jail? At that point, as an indictee, she is entitled to the fifth amendment of course, and her not revealing a source likely is covered by her right against self-incrimination.
Of course, she would face the possibility of considerably more prison time, but wouldn't she be out on bail at that point?
Heh! Ecoast said what I just said, only much more succinctly and without the cuss words.
Phoenix Woman
i totally agree. and the best thing about this is that the great majority of americans have more faith in the judicial istitutions of this country than they do the press or the legislative. and then add in chimpy's plunging 'truthfulness' numbers.
fitzgerald's report is bad news regardless of the level of treachery he charges against bushco.
Here is what I think I grasp after reading the comments.
Miller is now being held for refusal to speak in an investigation. She is not a defendent. There are no charges against her . As soon as she speaks or as soon as the investigation is over she can leave.
If Fitzgerald files criminal contempt against her it is a new case. She is the defendent. Her crime is refusing to speak in the original case. She will get a judge and jury and if found guilty be given sentence she must serve.
Is that it?
It's fun to speculate on the fate of Miller, but I think the most important story is that Rove's email does not contain anything about Wilson's wife in his conversation with Cooper, whereas Cooper's email does.
I think Rove's testimony followed his own email, and since Cooper's contradicts the Turd Blossom's account, he is going to be indicted for lying to the grand jury.
Can't we all just move on and leave Judith alone?
What did she do to deserve such a fate If anyone should be i jail, it's me.
Ha ha. Just kidding.
-
This is American legal system at its finest. Let the case build itself. We just have to wait.
Especially since, unlike Watergate, we can't assume the Senate will act like anything other than the WH's whores.
Makes me proud of those "activist" judges!
Thanks to those who've explained Atrios' question. I'm not so conversant with the law, and would just as soon throw Judy into Abu Ghraib.
But, please... in the name of humanity, don't publish the pictures of her in naked human pyramids.
Judy, don't be a hero,
Don't be a fool with your life...
(Sorry, too late)
I think he meant to say "heart" and was just typing too fast.
"Liberals HEART their country first and foremost."
That has to be it. I just can't think of any other word that fits the sentence.
Garampani:
A-yep.
My theory:
Judith Miller is claiming reporter's privilege to cover her complicity in the conspiracy. Fitz knows this and it's pissing him off. She should be in front of the Jury and claiming the Fifth Amendment instead - in which case Fitzgerald would grant her immunity and compel her to testify against the others.
He seems to have enough of a case that he's threatening to put her in criminal jeopardy anyway. In other words, "criminal if she don't, and criminal if she does" -- but the latter choice at least gives her a Fifth amendment right and the possibility of a grant of immunity.
The downside is that everybody would then know she's a criminal. She has too much pride.
I'm not so conversant with the law, and would just as soon throw Judy into Abu Ghraib.
Well, she was a cheerleader for the war, let her go get a taste of what she shamelessly promoted - along with the lemon chicken and Froot Loops, of course, which I hear conservatives say are simply divine.
If Judy ever gives in, all hell will break lose because she knows where all the bodies are buried.
Think of her as a sort of Woodward&Berstein but in a parallel universe wher right is wrong and wrong is right.
never mind
Liberals hat their country first and foremost
Then we have brownshirt slime like Patterson who loathe the Enlightenment and its fruit, the Constitution of the United States.
They loathe the ideals of Jefferson, of Madison, of Franklin, of Washington, of Hancock, of Adams. There greatest wish to to bring back the horrors of Divine Right of Kings in the person of a sociopath deserter from the Texas Air National Guard who in alcohol and cocaine fueled stupor drove several companies into the ground, only to be bailed out by his family's wealthy friends. Well, it's going to be very hard for his family to bail him out of his current nosedive directly into the ground.
Now that the sociopath's "brain" is about to receive his comeuppance for naked thuggery and outright treason, the bleating of slime like Patterson grows more and more shrill. Forgive me as I enjoy watching their mewlings of desperation in defense of that bag of mendacious pigshit as he prepares for his frogmarch out of the White House and into a prison cell for a long, long time.
Well everybody with sense knows she's a criminal, dear.
"fitzgerald's ability to keep such control of the investigation is a wonderful contrast to that exhibited by ken starr."
And that's the heart of the matter. Note how no one in the "mainstream" has taken the trouble to explain what Fitzgerald is doing. Why? Because informing the public that the investigation is done in absolute leak-free secrecy exposes the "mainstream" game of proffering information handed over by supposedly secret "sources" known to all withoin the beltway -- and shielded from the suckers, ie. us, the "general public."
"Mainstream" news today is nothing but gossip promulgated by corrupt, lazy-ass hacks. The notion that reporters "can't function without unnamed sources" is a fucking lie -- and central to their hackdom
Oh, the the murder one can get away with by attributing information to anonymous sources.
Really, how much actual truth has been reported this way, especially in the past few decades?
Suite: Judy's blue lies
I suppose this has been covered many times, but i am convinced Judy's claiming protection under the 1st Amendment so she does NOT have to claim (revokable, via grants of immunity) protection under the 5th...
Speaking of Judy, WaPo took a swipe at her in it's review of Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka:
"And that hair--a lacquered pageboy with wisps of Mamie Eisenhower bangs -- that hair can bring to mind only one person these days, and that's the currently incarcerated New York Times reporter Judith Miller."
I hat to hate the asshats that don't know shit!
You can impose either a fine or a prison term for a single act of criminal contempt as per 18 USC 401. I'd put Judith Miller's hefty salary on Fitzgerald attempting to get a punitive fine levied against Miller, rather than further imprisonment. Hit 'em where it hurts.
The biggest difference I see is the F word; Felony. Ms. Miller could damn well forget getting any passes into any secure government building again as a reporter.
I just can't shake the feeling that Judy is more than a journalists who was leaked to, because she never printed anything about any of it. I suspect she helped spread the manure.
Can someone sling me a link to the WaPo article in question? Is it from today?
TIA, gang.
Oops, never mind, LOL.
We hate God first and foremost.
.
.
.
Didn't you get the memo?
i don't hate god so much, but that cult of the baby jesus sure is annoying. but then i prob'ly just missed the memo cause i never read my email. thx for the update.
Susan McDougal was indicted and tried for criminal contempt after she served her time for civil contempt.
I wonder if any of the media whores remember how they cheered on Starr's persecution of Susan McD.
I couldn't agree more with ecoast and Phoenix Woman. Fitzgerald has played it by the book and gotten enthusiastic agreement from judges that the reporters need to testify, so he's been following the guidelines.
Cooper's lawyer, clearly no fool, understands this and turned Luskin's offhand public statement into a get out of jail free card for Cooper.
But Miller's refusal is a stick in the eye of the entire judicial system operating by the rules. This is why Fitzgerald would want criminal contempt instead of obstruction. Or in addition to, maybe.
I think the real target here is how the white house handles classified information in general. More specifically, how it's so often been handed over to the political people who don't have security clearances and then gets shoveled into the media through shills like Miller. It isn't just this memo and this specific piece of information, but almost everything that was leaked pre-war about what Saddam had. It's the political operation of the white house and the VP's office.
I just can't shake the feeling that Judy is more than a journalists who was leaked to, because she never printed anything about any of it. I suspect she helped spread the manure.
winterfire
Hell yeah, and don't forget the suspicions that she tipped off a charity Fitzgerald was investigating a few years ago for links to terrorism. I wonder if this factors into Fitzgerald's willingness to punish her with a criminal contempt indictment for the Rovegate case.
well said, David E and Altoid
One of the main differences between civil and criminal is the purpose behind imprisonment. In civil contempt, the jail is used to coerce testimony. That is why Fitzgerald specifically stated it appears reasonably possible jail would force the testimony. Once it is clear the jailing will not be sufficient to compel compliance with the court order, she must be let out. Criminal contempt can be punitive. Of course, criminal contempt requires all of the protections a criminal trial gets, i.e., an indictment, a trial by jury, proof beyond reasonable doubt, and unanimous jury.
agreed altoid- Cheney ran the circus.
>Liberals hat their country first and foremost.
At last, a brownshirt who has figured out the truth! For a long time we have figure that that a big giant hat covering the entire contiguous United States would be a rather nice substitute for a space based missile defense system, and so we are covering our country with a nice sized John Deere hat, which will not only protect us from nukes, but keep terrorists and other swarthy people out!
Because, as it turned out...that, after the revelations of the Wilson Affair, the real patriots turned out to be liberals....who actually wear many hats!
in terms of basic law, civil contempt can be and is punished by confinement for some act (ordered by a court) that one refuses to perform (or performs an act prohibited by the court)and therefore one can be held until one performs the act and the contempt can then be said to have been purged.
with civil contempt the prosecutor or whatever party is seeking one's punishment need not prove intent, just that that one has contravened the court's order.
criminal contempt is punishable by confinement for some act (ordered by a court or prohibited by the court) that has already been done. criminal contempt cannot be purged by rectifying the situation. the damage has already been done.
with criminal contempt, of course, the prosecutor must prove an intentional act that contravenes the court's order.
lawtalking- I'm a layman here, no specialty or practice in said field.
Suppose Miller is held in TWO counts of contempt- civil and criminial?
She can get civil for the leak, criminal for the breach of encryption(Chalabi) and the charity sting tip to help possible terror laundering.
She must of had reason to leak the latter- part of the source trail for false INTEL plants?
You think she would not of let it go down otherwise to be the inside scoop? She only protects things she is involved in, the rest is all copy.
vd- the criminal contempt can apply specifically to CHalabi and the charity raid warning...
twice over she can perhaps get back to let more information be known
...anyone care to guess how much patriot act wiretaps caught some of this shit?
I want Russert to ask Cooper tommorrow of he heard the source was the PatriotII provision to break down walls in security and share info...
Liberals hat their country first and foremost.
I live in a country called "Judy"?
Help me find my keys, and we'll drive my jeep out of here.
.
Seriously --
Anybody have a theory about why
Judy went to jail?
Obviously, she's not protecting
some kind of journalistic
privilege.......
steve simels
Supposedly because she has not received a super duper, double dip, triple scoop deep background waiver from her source, and until she does, she's going to stay in jail because the source is sacrosanct!
That means until she hears the okay from the Dickster, she's got to stay in jail. And of course, we all know Tricky Dick is saying, "Better her than me. I'm far too rich to go to jail."
Altoid,
Who was it a few years ago that famously described the Bush White House as the "Mayberry Machiavelis" - that the political arm ran everything, that there was no government arm?
Their present predicament follows from this. Politics drives all, trumping even the national security interest. Rove et al only know how to shape an image. They've honed their craft selling soap and junk food, etc. That's their forte. Like evyone else on the planet, they place inordinate importance on what they do best. SO, they go around saying that they control what reality is. And they don't see that reality is coming up to bite them in the ass.
I think he meant to say "heart" and was just typing too fast.
I disagree with everyone on this one -- I am sure he meant "hat."
As in a covering that protects and comforts -- we where hats to protect us from the elements and they make us more comfortable and stylish.
I think he is on our side -- just trying to pay homage to the way those that defy the chimporer are standing up to the lies and crimes of this administrationl.
I believe we owe this poor fool an apalogy -- he isn't a troll, he is one of us!
Suite: Judy's blue lies
It's getting to the point, where I am no fun any more. I am lying....
Sometimes it hurts so badly I must lie out loud....
I am loathsome,
I am god, you are fools; I'll tell you how things are.
But you make it hard...
Ivory Bill do you see a difference between covering up sex and covering up a conspiracy to out a CIA operative. Let's assume for a second, that you are right- that both are reprehensible, do you accept that sometimes things are a matter of degrees, or do you as my Evangelical friend does, not allow for degree in your moral judgement? Just curious because I notice a tendency by both the left and right to assume if something is the same quality, we are to ignore the degree to which they differ
I'm becoming convinced that she'll talk sooner or later. Over at Digby's he's saying that her lawyers are essentially asking publically for a waiver.
I tend to agree. It's only a matter of time.
In "civil contempt", the witness has refused to comply with a court order, but the court still believes that there is some hope of compelling the witness to comply. The witness can be sentenced to jail, or virtually any other penalty (for example, $100.00 a day fine), that the court reasonably believes will cause compliance. The jailing is called "conditional commitment", and the witness always has the keys to get himself or herself out of jail. The maximum is 6 months.
Criminal contempt is an "in your face" disrespect to the court, that happens in the courtroom. For example, Abby Hoffman was charged with criminal contempt in 1968 for suggesting that Judge Hoffman perform a sex act on himself.
I haven't seen or heard anything in this case that rises to the level of criminal contempt. I sure wouldn't be surprised if she finds herself charged with Obstruction of Justice, though.
bjm,esq
Maybe fitzgerald needs to check her bank account and see just whose payroll she is really on.
Miller is definitely the type to get turned out if she goes to a "real" prison. All that attitude? Forget it; she'll somebody's bitch by the end of the first day.
nameless bob,
Yeah, I think that was the guy in the faith-based initiatives office, John something, who gave Esquire an interview. I don't remember his name offhand. But he was really shocked and was the first big-time interview to talk about how politics is everything and policy is nowhere.
I think you're right that all these guys care about is politics and they really believe that "perception *is* reality." Everything they do is aimed at perception management, and as Digby constantly points out, the conduits (media) either don't understand this or are happy to be used this way. Miller seems pretty happy, for one. Must have made her feel important.
The trick has to be to catch them out in black-and-white in something so basic that even some of the kool-aid drinkers choke. This might be it.
bjm-- are you sure there's no criminal contempt here? I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me she's wilfully refusing to obey a court order that followed all the guidelines protecting reporter confidentiality. Also, suppose she's been subpoenaed about her own actions and is trying to use this instead of pleading the fifth? Would that be criminal contempt?
John DiIulio.
Liberals hat their country first and foremost.
.
David Patterson
Hello?
Is there anybody IN there?
Nod if you can hear me!
Is there anybody home?
Of course, we HAT our country. We can't let it go around bareheaded. It might get sunburned!
Gary Frazier | Email | 07.16.05 - 11:39 am | #
Well said!
John DiIlulio quoted in Ron Suskind's Jan 2003 Esquire article.
DiIulio defines the Mayberry Machiavellis as political staff, Karl Rove and his people, "who consistently talked and acted as if the height of political sophistication consisted in reducing every issue to its simplest black-and-white terms for public consumption, then steering legislative initiatives or policy proposals as far right as possible. These folks have their predecessors in previous administrations (left and right, Democrat and Republican), but in the Bush administration, they were particularly unfettered."
Mr. Murder.
Actually, I think she get both civil and criminal contempt for the same conduct, not testifying when ordered. Even though she is jailed in the civil contempt, double jeopardy would not bar a later prosecution for criminal contempt on the same violation, becuase the first jailing would not be "punishment".
There is a subtlety here. A reporter should almost always have the right to protect his/her sources. This is necessary for a free press. But the subtlety in this case is that the reporter is part of the crime; not merely an impartial observer/reporter.
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