I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Billmon is the best
I second the Billmon (and third the thread?)
I wonder how much of the heat over Rove is reaching through Bush's bubble? He's been looking a bit peaked the last few days.
More creepy details about Treasongate.
This is lifted from TPM cafe, a post by "cs," in a discussion about the Butler inquiry from Britain.
"In the UK, the David Kelly story unfolded during a time frame that overlapped Wilson's op-ed and the outing of Plame. Dr. Kelly was outed on July 9, Plame on the 14, and on July 17 Dr. Kelly went missing and ended up dead."
cs goes on to say that Kelly had contacted Miller before he died, and wonders about the phone record.
We're pondering some mean motherfuckers here. I certainly am withholding any judgement on whether Miller deserves to be let out of prison or not.
Interesting speculations to be found about Cheney's role in this.
Scooter Libby has been named in all the discussion of sources, persons questioned, etc., but little has been made of it in the focus on Rove.
Will be interesting to see what Fitzgerald finally does.
Absolutely wonderful, too bad this offering cannot be shoved in the face of every journalist in this country and then force them to read it and give thought. Billman has hit that old nail smack dab on the head.
dont wanna be an american idiot
one nation controlled by the media
What would actually happen to Bush if Rove quit/got fired? Would Bush flail around ruddelessly? Would he just consult with Rove over the phone instead of in person? Would he not be able to get out of bed in the morning? Would it not matter because Bush isn't going to be a candidate anymore? Has anybody speculated about a post-Rove Bush.
"Who shall watch the watchers?"
As Homer Simpson once said, "I dunno... Coast Guard?"
Has anybody speculated about a post-Rove Bush.
I'm sure he would dedicate his life to building homes for poor people.
Oh man. This is getting scarey.
Will it ever come out what Valerie Wilson actually did for the CIA? I ask this because of all the crap that is being thrown out there by the Bushies and their cronies in the media. It seems to me that they can claim anything they want about what she actually did for the CIA, because if her work there was truly classified, it probably won't be declassified for a very long time, meaning the talking heads on Faux can say anything without it being officially refuted, since people who actually know what she did aren't allowed to comment on it.
Do you think the Bush administration will work to declassify her work at the CIA as fast as they did to declassify the material they used to smear Richard Clarke?
itty bitty question--is everyone else getting back spaces where the gravatars should be showing?
i knew there must be new threads, i was suddenly talkin to myself
I may be off-base because I tend to tune out self-serving bullshit from talking heads, but I haven't seen even a fraction of the tortured soul-searching and self-righteous pronouncements from the media on the Armstrong Williams payoff scandal, which seems to me to be an ethical problem of similar dimensions, as I've seen on this thing.
Granted, no one went to jail in the Williams affair, but it still speaks to the absolute core of what ethical journalism ought to be about, IMHO.
so what i was sayin was:
i'm pretty sure outing Plame was not so much to threaten Wilson, but to threaten someone else who may have even more damning evidence from coming forward.
What would actually happen to Bush if Rove quit/got fired?
The Bush robot's eyes would flicker, smoke would shoot out the top of it's head, then it would slowly keel over as all the brains and life go out of it.
I'm not sure I agree with Billimon's analysis, or his results. But he proves one thing: change the facts, change the outcome.
The "ethical thing to do" doesn't depend on the situation, but what is ethical in any given situation does depend on the facts.
At this point, Fitzgerald has more facts than any of us, which is why I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as to what should be done, and to whom.
His actions will be scrutinized when all is revealed, and he knows it. All of this tells me he understands another old adage: "If you would strike at a king, you had better kill him."
Do you think the Bush administration will work to declassify her work at the CIA as fast as they did to declassify the material they used to smear Richard Clarke?
MouseThatRoared
That information has got to be damning, because you can bet your immortal soul that if it had helped Rove in any way, it would have been "leaked" so fast the White House doors would still be flapping.
Really, is there any doubt that Rove will always be in the picture, even if it is from a prison cell and they have to schedule important decisions around his visiting/call hours?
I'm looking for the collateral damage...
.
Bill Keller: Conspiracy to Commit
send that fucker up the river. Pravda on the Hudson, even more than WaPo, bears responsibility for the propogation of the misinformation campaign.
feh!
Has anybody speculated about a post-Rove Bush.
I'm sure he would dedicate his life to building homes for poor people.
Eli
And wind up on Bernie Goldberg's list of 100 people who are hurting America?
Doesn't Karl have enough problems?
Even if Rove is only forced to resign in disgrace and "retire" to his McMansion somewhere, I'd say we ought to keep a 24-hour watch on him to document which Republicans went to him for advice and help, then tar them with it as hard as possible.
And wind up on Bernie Goldberg's list of 100 people who are hurting America?
Good point.
Okay, he'll dedicate his life to building homes for *rich* people.
I don't know what I was thinking...
Enough With the Judith Miller Defending (none / 0)
Journalists don't give other journalists stories with their own "unnamed" sources, while not printing the story themselves. Why anyone would think that Judith Miller is a journalist at this point is beyond me. She is a journalist like Goebbels was a journalist. Propaganda is not journalism. Clearly, she is working for the neocons and the Bush Administration and posing as a journalist. Whether the New York Times is aware of this or just completely bamboozled is a question for the history books. Judith Miller knew her WMD stories were bogus, knew the sources for those stories were bogus and knew that she was just helping to promote the boguse rationale for the war. That isn't fucking journalism. Judith Miller knew that the point of giving up Plame was to discredit an obviously true report from Plame's husband (or is someone trying to say that the Niger uranium story is true?). She gave the story to someone else so that she would not be fingered for more disinformation. Novak is little better than Miller.
Can anyone say that at any time they believe that Miller was trying to get to the truth of the matter regarding WMD's or Wilson? Of course not, only journalists seek the truth, even if they get caught up in their own biases. But this goes beyond even biased journalism. Judith Miller is not a journalist!
Even if Rove is only forced to resign in disgrace and "retire" to his McMansion somewhere, I'd say we ought to keep a 24-hour watch on him to document which Republicans went to him for advice and help, then tar them with it as hard as possible.
And be sure to always refer to him as "disgraced traitor Karl Rove" whenever such contacts are reported...
That information has got to be damning, because you can bet your immortal soul that if it had helped Rove in any way, it would have been "leaked" so fast the White House doors would still be flapping.
I have to agree with you. If she really was deeply involved in nuclear nonproliferation and was NOC, if this information came out, and was accepted by the public, they would be furious that the Bush administration outed her, which is why the righties are working so hard to make the public believe that she didn't have a prominent role in anything.
Eli, Bush has already dedicated his life to buying homes, vacations, luxury cars, and diamond tiaras for the rich. It's called tax cuts.
Anyone wanna watch me cut the landlord's front yard?
.
I wish Rove had called Tom Friedman
My Rove-leak recipient wish list would have to include Cal Thomas and Charles Krauthammer. Those two could truly benefit from a couple months of paying in cigarettes for their soap-on-a-rope.
What would actually happen to Bush if Rove quit/got fired?
the same thing that happened to mortimer snerd when edgar bergen pulled the hand out of his ass.
Drat. I missed the cooking Karl Rove thread.
What would actually happen to Bush if Rove quit/got fired? Would Bush flail around ruddelessly?
Well, he wouldn't step up to the plate, that's for sure.
Remember how everyone seemed to snicker about him when he was selected? His performance on 9/11?
pathetic.
Then the *SCLM* went into overdrive.
Fuck them all.
I can't believe anyone bought into the media portrayal.
Jeffraham--I'll watch, and hand you homemade lemonade!
yeah, what kind of work was Brewster, Jennings and Associates doing before the thugs blew their cover? more info please. what part of the CIA's counterproliferation operations were compromised by Chimpy's minions?
more importantly, why the fuck aren't the pro-war, rightwing hawk DINO's being rounded up and put on the Sunday gabfests screaming about how Chimpy's minions are FUCKING UP the global war on terra?
what, the 2 Joe's have nothing to say about this treasonous compromise of America's intelligence capabilities? where are the "Security Democrats" and why ain't they on the ramparts?
Of course, the lie behind this whole "reporters right to protect sources" is the outdated belief that we have any meaningful competition in America's traditional media (papers, radio, TV).
Today, the notion that the press acts as a "watchdog" is laughable on its face.
When the media becomes one-and-the-same as the ruling elite (read: neocon repugs) that gerrymander our election system so that they can falsely proclaim mandates, all bets are off.
IMHO, all of this was enabled by the lies that many of us were taught in school about the role of the press and the myth of "objective reporting."
Of course, billions and billions of dollars pouring into the war-machine (which much of the MSM has its hands into) did not help.
what, the 2 Joe's have nothing to say about this treasonous compromise of America's intelligence capabilities? where are the "Security Democrats" and why ain't they on the ramparts?
You don't speak for the Democratic party.
n69n,
as i said in the previous post, only this time in the words of ed mcmahon, "you are correct, sir!"
intimidation is a tool this administration is all to comfortable with.
I wish Rove had called Tom Friedman
Well, there are phone records, although Tommy was already drinking the kool-aid.
Prolly not necessary.
Since Fitzgerald was appointed by Ashcroft's DOJ, what are the chances that the White House has a highly placed mole in the investigation?
I know little about Grand Juries and how the information is collected or how it is shared.
Do all the lawyers get to see all the testimony beyond their own clients. If not how far up the investigative chain would someone have to be to see everything said and collected.
I can't believe the White House is operating blindly, with their fingers crossed hoping to dodge indictments.
Planting a mole would have been the obvious thing to do to get a heads up on things.
Any ideas?
Will be interesting to see what Fitzgerald finally does.
If I were a betting man, I would bet that one day, Fitzgerald just mysteriously announces that he is going to Disney World and that is the end of it.
You don't speak for the Democratic party.
allahu ahkbar for that
Mrs. Ibrahim al-Jaafari, no way do I want them to join this fray.
One question: When is a source not a source?
Haloscan sucks, and so, apparently, does Gravatar.
yes, bot for different reasons. gravatar's problem seems to actually be a problem with their host - polarphase.com. dns devilry.
Sallyh: Jeffraham--I'll watch, and hand you homemade lemonade!
Deal! 
.
shoved in the face of every journalist
Don't kid yourself, they know what the opposition is saying, that's how they create and disseminate the next lie.
Today, "objective journalism" means that if someone reports something negative, but true, about a republican; it has to be "balanced" with lies and innuendo about those that dare to question the official story.
Sallyh: Jeffraham--I'll watch, and hand you homemade lemonade!
Deal!
I'm picturing some kind of shirtless poolboy scenario here...
Is Mrs. a troll?
Seems so.
Today, "objective journalism" means that if someone reports something negative, but true, about a republican; it has to be "balanced" with lies and innuendo about those that dare to question the official story.
Yep. 'Cuz the truth is only *one* side of the story.
LEEDS, England - Amear Ali remembers how the film images clicked by in rapid-fire sequence to a soundtrack of pounding drums: dead Iraqi children, Palestinians under siege, Guantanamo prisoners, snippets of President Bush repeating the word "crusade." "You could see how it could turn someone to raw hate," said Ali, recalling his brush last year with the hard-edged marketing of extremism at an Islamic bookstore operated by his brother-in-law. "It even started working on me. Then I said to myself, `Get out. This stuff is poison.'"
George W. Bush - The Greatest Recuitment Tool for Al Queda, ever.
Thanks George.......
Drat. I missed the cooking Karl Rove thread.
Sallyh | Email | Homepage | 07.16.05 - 6:50 pm | #
sorry, sallyh. but i just stuck a fork in him - he's done.
I Was Disappointed
not to have made Bernie Goldberg's list of the 100 worst people in america. i'm putting it on my list of accomplishments i'll look into in my retirement, along with becoming heir apparent to the title 'sexiset, blue-eyed, over-60, male, film actor."
in that regard: Into the West tonight, Custer gets it...he was hunting Crazy Horse, the 1876 equivalent of Osama, as the Natives were regarded with the same fear and loathing as are Arabs and Muslims today...he got what was coming to him, no more and no less...his men carried his lifeless body for their last 20 yards...
just sayin
i might be visible panning for gold...and in town scenes, an older, dignifiedly dressed citizen weating a high-crowned bowler and carrying a cane...
What would actually happen to Bush if Rove quit/got fired?
Don't worry, there is no shortage of slimy creatures with an IQ higher than the chimperor.
Rove gets too much credit; its really the media "echo chamber" and the absence of open and fair elections that created this administration.
They did not win in 2000 and probably did not in 2004, but this time they own the voting machines and got rid of the ballots.
No wonder chimpy talks about "accountability moments" and "political capital."
I don't see any of them as "geniuses" or even key players -- those folks make sure they stay quietly behind the scenes.
PAY NOT ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!!!
Go over and check online NYT==New Frank Rich column on the big picture issues. Very good.
If this were '73-'74, we'd be hearing a litany of past Rove "dirty tricks," plus a profile of the College Republicans...yet hope springs eternal.
This case is a bellwether.
The varied business community, which holds the leashes of the media and most of Congress, reached the consensus that Nixon was a liability, the floodgates opened and a botched burglary led to one revelation after another.
I believe I am seeing somewhat the same thing, now. There must be folks in the corporate world who see the need to cut losses.
Hence more stories, more investigations…
There are still some corporate types who want to squeeze a little more out of what has been the most corporate-obeying president ever.
Hence the floodgates are not quite open.
Bush will probably ultimately be saved by all the goodies he's handed out. However, the consequences of those hand-outs, and the bungled foreign policy, will make the corporate world start to shut him down.
Don't kid yourselves about where the true power lies: The private tyrannies of the corporate world, tightly knit and amorally committed to the bottom line.
PAY NOT ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!!!
Anonymous | 07.16.05 - 7:00 pm | #
wolfowitz. perl. cheney. murdoch. and names we don't know on the corporate side. yet.
!!!!!!
Eli: I'm picturing some kind of shirtless poolboy scenario here...
If you're picturing me as the poolboy in that scenario, I hope you have a wastebasket within projectile vomiting range...
.
Has anybody speculated about a post-Rove Bush.
I think they will open a McDonalds -- you know, one of the theme restaurant, perhaps with a "Shock and Awe" decor.
I would love to see either one of those bozos ask me if I want fries with my sandwich -- well, if I actually ate that tasteless, cold stuff.
As I stated earlier.
You Dems seem to think that Karl Rove is the entree to possibly impeach Bush (and that is the ultimate goal here). They're angry because their desire for an independent counsel --- something they loved for Reagan and Bush, hated for Clinton, love for Bush II (but, no, the Liberal Media doesn't have an agenda. Don't be silly) --- backfired and led to journalists being imprisoned.
It's even more ironic since we KNOW Karl Rove gave Judith Miller his permission to discuss anything they discussed on this issue and the NY Times had her refuse --- which means that, most likely, Rove WASN'T THE MAIN SOURCE OF THE STORY.
Rove wasn't even a remotely tertiary source. He's just the bogeyman the press wants to crucify because one of their own is being thrust upon the patard created by the press.
Let's face a few facts:
1) No law was broken, whatsoever. The woman who WROTE the law (Victoria Toensing) has said the law was not broken and, odds are, she knows more about it than the media.
2) Since the reporters have Rove's permission to talk, he isn't the primary source. Not least of which, the press would NEVER keep anything incriminating about him quiet. Something would have leaked out more damaging than the emails (which only show that Rove didn't know her name nor did he have clearance to read Wilson's report. He simply told Cooper to not go over the edge covering Wilson's story as it didn't hold up)
Rove DID see George Tenet's statement before George issued it and saw how much it undercut most of Wilson's story. He gave Time a friendly warning.
Rove didn't know she was ever an agent (he didn't have access to that info) and didn't read Wilson's report (or else he would have utterly undressed Wilson's op-ed).
The person who "outed" Plame was not Rove. Odds are, it was another reporter, as her working for the CIA was as big a secret in Washington as Santa Claus not actually existing.
3) The more the press plays this, the more it'll end up backfiring. The press is so screwed here it is not comical. No harm will come to Rove because he didn't actually do anything. Bush is spotless here.
BUT, the press is neck-deep. The reporters know who told them everything and they aren't talking. Which means that the sources aren't on "their side" (Rove's attorney has pointed out that Cooper's article actually completely mischaracterizes what Rove actually told him). In fact, as Luskin pointed out, Rove didn't call Cooper (it was vice versa) and the conversation dealt with welfare reform for the most part.
Not exactly a campaign to out anybody.
In fact, the conservative contingent is in no apparent danger whatsoever. Novak has already testified and isn't even in the crosshairs. Rove has given all reporters permission to speak. But the only people in legal hot water are the reporters, not any political figures.
4) Valerie Plame's actual standing as a covert agent is shaky. Agents undercover don't often have deskjobs at Langley. She may have been once, but there is zero evidence she was one at the time of the "leak".
And her posing for pictures in Vanity Fair did more to make her public than anything else.
which is why the righties are working so hard to make the public believe that she didn't have a prominent role in anything.
MouseThatRoared
Yup.
They don't want to note that she traveled under a regular passport (not a "black" diplomatic one), worked on WMD issues (oh, the ironies!), and that this little "oops!" exposed not only her, but a CIA front co.
Nor any discussion of whether she was a valuable agent, or not (but since most CIA travel under "black" passports, which identifies them as government agents if not CIA....)
Into the West tonight, Custer gets it...he was hunting Crazy Horse, the 1876 equivalent of Osama, as the Natives were regarded with the same fear and loathing as are Arabs and Muslims today...he got what was coming to him, no more and no less
It'll be interesting to see if they relate how Custer's body was treated and that the Indians stuck an arrow into Custer's penis for some spiritual purpose.
If they do I think I'll be sleeping on my stomach tonight.
If you're picturing me as the poolboy in that scenario, I hope you have a wastebasket within projectile vomiting range...
I don't know if you ever saw the Sportscenter commercial where ESPN traded Charley Steiner to Melrose Place for Andrew Shue...
I'm luvin' it!
In American law, reporters have no absolute right to protect their sources, though the law does recognize their professional interest in keeping them secret, at least where secrecy furthers the public good of open government. I've got to believe that judges are clever enough to come up with some test that disinguishes between the use of secrecy to protect whistleblowers and the use of secrecy to further illicit government actions.
Judith Miller should be indicted on charges of Murder One.
She killed my only child, my son!
take heart, moonbats.
for every tyranny, there is eventually a revolution to overthrow it.
the sad part is, it's called a revolution becasue it ends up coming back to the same old thing.
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday,
Then I get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again!
What would actually happen to Bush if Rove quit/got fired?
Chimpy would no longer have to hide his drinking and coke snortin'
One question: When is a source not a source?
PeskyFly
That depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
WGG-Sorry you didn't make Bernie Goldberg's list. My list includes a few hundred million spermatazoa the Bush 41 left in Babs cookie jar. Too bad she was too much of a princess to eat the protein.
I don't normally agree with anything posted in the NYT but Tierney really hits the nail on the head.
"What do you call a scandal that's not scandalous?
Nadagate"
1) No law was broken, whatsoever. The woman who WROTE the law (Victoria Toensing) has said the law was not broken and, odds are, she knows more about it than the media.
One simple rebuttal to knock over this house of cards:
a) Toensing knows no more evidence than the rest of us do. Fitzgerald knows A LOT more evidence than any of us do. And even U.S. Attorneys do not seek jail time for journalists lightly.
b) There are many more federal criminal statutes that could be involved than the one Toensing helped write. Hanging your hat on what she says, IOW, is hanging your hat on air.
She's got nothing. Fitzgerald, on the other hand, may have a winning hand.
We won't know until he puts his cards on the table. But the way he's playing, I wouldn't count on him to be bluffing.
Eli: I don't know if you ever saw the Sportscenter commercial where ESPN traded Charley Steiner to Melrose Place for Andrew Shue...
No. In fact, if you had written that whole statement in Portugese, it would have made exactly the same impact on me. Well, I do know what ESPN is...
.
Who watches the Watchers?
Why, the blogsphere, of course!! :D
Then, who watches these Watchers?
I don't know!!!
(Will the madness ever end???)
And her posing for pictures in Vanity Fair did more to make her public than anything else.
R.C. Richards
Come to think of it before she did the Vanity Fair photo she wore a brown paper shopping bag over her head like the unknown comic.
Once again RC you radiate devastaing geometric logic. I'm impressed!
Valerie Plame's picture in Vanity Fair.
agent orange: good question you are raising. In fact, the article that came out last night in the Times made me wonder about who the sources were. It seemed to me that Fitz has been beyond reproach wrt leaks from his office. So, I thought a lot of the leaks in that article must have come from people at the DOJ who have been monitoring his investigation...I'm sure he has to report to them and I'm certain that they keep a very close eye on what's happening.
"what, the 2 Joe's have nothing to say about this treasonous compromise of America's intelligence capabilities? where are the "Security Democrats" and why ain't they on the ramparts?
Mrs. Ibrahim al-Jaafari"
The reason you hear nothing is because the 'security dem' bullshit is trademarked by the dlc. The dlc, above all else, = sucking up to corporate power.
It's the same reason why you didn't hear holy joe when the enron scandal broke. His allegience to dlc-corporate money grubbing was more important then to protecting citizens from being ripped off by them.
Really, is there any doubt that Rove will always be in the picture, even if it is from a prison cell and they have to schedule important decisions around his visiting/call hours?
You mean like the 2 dudes that sit in prison and tell the "people" and the "crips" what to do?
damn, there's that buzzing noise again. pests!
well, probably not important.
i am so curious about what kind of messages judy doody's gettin @ her website....
i cant imagine that shes getting messages of support (tho im sure some are)...im sure its got to be mostly delicious snark!
Jeffro - First video in the middle column.
And her posing for pictures in Vanity Fair did more to make her public than anything else.
R.C. Richards
She was no longer a CIA operative when that ran in Vanity Fair, you stupid fucktard. It didn't matter if anybody on the street knew the name Valerie Plame before the Vanity Fair piece. Every embassy and intelligence agency in the world knew her name from Novak's article, though.
Did ANYTHING in the Vanity Fair article link Ms Plame with the CIA?
if so, i've never seen reference to it. so tyhe whole Vanity Fair shuck-and-jive- is nothing more than smokescreen/spin.
it made no difference if she were known to be Joe Wilson's beautiful, accomplished, educated, devoted wife. Lots of brilliant, accomplished, intelligent women are married to socially prominent men. They get their faces and names in the papers...
none of it matters two drippy shitz if there is nothing in the publicity attendant upon the couple which links her with the CIA...and there was nothing...
until that revolting slug nofax, acting on a tip from rove, libby, and abramns, published the fact.
bang...
smoking gun...
i do sincerely desire to be present when the trool's own relative turns up deceased because some fuckwitted political operative needed to go all Sopranos on a rival...
just sayin...
.
Is anyone else listening to the BRAD SHOW (Raw Radio) -- Greg Palast is on, one of the few real reporters left.
http://ibcradio.com/CMN.htm
Oh, and woodward is not one of them -- actually never was. The whole watergate thing was just the establishment bringing a rogue alcoholic down before he started talking to more than the paintings on the wall.
Hey, do you think there are any similarities here?
First video in the middle column.
Wanna rub some cocoa oil on my back?
actually, before the Vanity Fair article she played lead guitar for various rock bands under the nickname "Buckethead."
Will it ever come out what Valerie Wilson actually did for the CIA? I ask this because of all the crap that is being thrown out there by the Bushies and their cronies in the media..... MouseThatRoared | 07.16.05 - 6:37 pm | #
(This is not directed at the poster, obviously) -- To the Repub 'she was a desk jockey'-spinning mental midgets, I have this to say...I must've missed the memo where the rest of America gave you worthless treasonous cocksuckers the right to out a CIA employee when you decided he/she didn't fit your criteria for protection. FUCK YOU.
George Bush is the handsomest, sexiest, cowboyist, dick-lickinist President the galaxy as ever seen. I bet his cock is stupendous and tasty. And I knows me a tasty coke when I taste one. I want mustard on mine, please.
buckethead! lmao!
hee hee.
Was Disappointed
not to have made Bernie Goldberg's list of the 100 worst people in america. - WGG
Just another example of Bernie's ineptness.
Bust when it goes to the street and the Singing Louisville Slugger is unleashed, he'll understand.
BOBO LAUDE RC gets paid by the paragraph
To the Repub 'she was a desk jockey'
who was mysteriously able to authorize sending her husband to niger on a very sensative mission for the VP's office.
(I should mention that the Y2K Test commercial at the top of the first row, also featuring Steiner, is one of my all-time favorites)
Bernie Goldberg's list of the 100 worst people in america
Seriously, what exactly is the point of such an exercise?
R C Richards sounds suspiciously like Toby.
Appeared on here just after Toby got banned Too.
I thought Toby would return in some distorted disguise sooner or later.
Stef: actually, before the Vanity Fair article she played lead guitar for various rock bands under the nickname "Buckethead."
Ah, I loved her work on the first Praxis CD.
.
R C Richards sounds suspiciously like Toby.
Toby was before my time - did he sound like a broken record, too? a scratched up, noisy, inarticulate broken record?
R C Richards sounds suspiciously like Toby.
Appeared on here just after Toby got banned Too.
I dunno - he doesn't make the same pathetic attempts to look "cool". He seems awfully familiar, but then, they all look alike to me.
R.C. Richards | Homepage | 07.16.05 - 7:03 pm | #
Oh yay! I'm not the dumbest! I'm not the dumbest! I'm not the dumbest one here!
Trolls are the most uninteresting people.
Joe Wilson's EXACTLY the kind of guy whom the Bushevik twins, Georgalr, would have detested: a smart, good-looking (Stewart Granger?) kind of way, a guy with casual competence who just naturally takes over a situation...
bushrover gottsa HATE dat mofo...
.
Shbinga--Toby was a little basement boy fascist who had an intense dislike of women. Come to think of it, most of the troll types do.
I loved Stewart totally embarrassing Goldberg on TDS - fish in a barrel. Am I correct in believing that Franken had Goldberg on? I didn't hear it. If so, how did that go?
My daughter has just informed me who the half-blood prince is and who he kills. Anyone want to know?
And her posing for pictures in Vanity Fair did more to make her public than anything else.
I will wait until she starts appearing in magazines without her clothes on.
WGG--not only that, he married a classy, smart blonde
Back to defending Judith Fucking Chalabi again, the Times are. What she did was way worse than Jayson Blair did. His stories didn't help start a phony war. Reading those articles from the Post today about bizarre behavior while in Iraq.
Toby was before my time - did he sound like a broken record, too? a scratched up, noisy, inarticulate broken record?
well yeah. but he wasnt that long ago, i havent been here for a few days and now hes gone. sic transit stupida, or something like that.
Toby was before my time
His standard MO was the final paragraph or sentence would be a celebration of how "clever" he was.
wheres Algonquin t. Cockholster?
Eli -- Heh! They have a great ad agency, don't they?
(I noticed dude had the good taste to leave the shirt on, though)
My favorite ESPN commercial is the one where the horse walks behind the dude who's washing his hands, in the restroom. So many angles to play that...
.
When do we get to see a Judith Miller mug shot - or do they not take those for civil contempt?
Uncle Smokes--no cocoa oil here. I'm an Irish girl. But I've got some great SPF 30 I'll liberally apply...
Toby was a little basement boy fascist who had an intense dislike of women. Come to think of it, most of the troll types do.
Can't get any. No one with a brain would go anywhere near their ugliness and stupidity.
Toby was a little basement boy fascist who had an intense dislike of women.
hmmm. perhaps he had some "issues". i presume he was a homophobe, too, then? why can't these guys make up their ....
oh, never mind. i see.
diddley squat, don't you dare spoil it!
Oh, Algonquin J. Cockholster; sorry
Back to defending Judith Fucking Chalabi again, the Times are.
They hitched to the wrong fucking horse.
That idiot Toby was always typing, "all right, I leaving now" for a full 2 hours before he really left. His attempts to sound reasonable were pathetic.
Can't get any. No one with a brain would go anywhere near their ugliness and stupidity.
I'm not so sure about that - it's not like people without brains are in short supply.
Homemade lemonade for anyone who wants. In about an hour, some Grey Goose can be added for additional refreshment.
pie: Can't get any. No one with a brain would go anywhere near their ugliness and stupidity.
Oh, I've seen righteous babes all over both the ugly and the stupid. I think it's actually the false bravado that's the biggest turnoff about the Yeller Elephants.
.
WGG--not only that, he married a classy, smart blonde
Sallyh - 7:20 pm
well, Il Douche has a tight little blonde with whom to cuddle, too...
only trouble--to the extent that it is any trouble to such as he--might be she's his daughter...
or not...
just sayin...
but you know those girls are acting out major (given their perhaps limited repertoire, even some trifle, of course, could have tripped the tenuous balance) trauma...
.
I see pie is getting back to her regular form...
What she did was way worse than Jayson Blair did."
my thoughts exactly. The only difference, from the slime's viewpoint, is that where JB just made shit up, JM gets assistance making shit up thru her contacts in chimpco.
But the end result is the same, no sentient being will believe a fucking thing she writes from now on. However, chimpco members will still be able to say about her propoganda, "why, even the liberal nyt's says...."
That idiot Toby was always typing, "all right, I leaving now" for a full 2 hours before he really left. His attempts to sound reasonable were pathetic.
I thought that was Ted. I wonder, where *is* Ted? I don't think he's RCR. Or AJC.
That idiot Toby was always typing, "all right, I leaving now" for a full 2 hours before he really left. His attempts to sound reasonable were pathetic.
bigvic
I thought that was me.
Now I'm leaving.
I'm sorry, Billmon is way too sensitve to the poor dears. They've been getting away with murder the last ten years or so.
These press whores have been running a little racket and at long last are having their tickets punched.
Good for Patrick Fitzgerald (product of a Jesuit high school, AMDG).
.
actually, i think i arrived the same day toby was banned. there seemed to be a lot of celebration going on, guess i'm happy to have missed him.
Clark Barr,
Very sorry for your unimaginable loss.
off.
scallops for the Masses!
It's ridiculous for the trolls to assert *anyone* is off the hook until Fitzgerald lays out whatever case he has.
Doesn't matter what Rove is currently leaking to his pets, doesn't matter what the NYT or Washington Times or *we* & our pet trools say. We aren't the grand jury.
Fitzgerald had better make a convincing case either way, so that when it's over, *somebody* has got to shut up.
years. When the fall rolls around the propaganda monster wakes up again.
sdt
But why? That's what I really don't understand. Her pre and post invasion reporting was a huge embarassment To the Times and instead of firing her they act like she's a martyr. Crikey.
only trouble--to the extent that it is any trouble to such as he--might be she's his daughter...
or not...
No, just looking at her, she's very clearly his daughter, or at least that of a sibling...
Congressional Democrats asking the Congressional Research Service for a legal opinion as to whether Karl Rove can be IMPEACHED.
Now we're cookin' with gas.
.
well, Il Douche has a tight little blonde with whom to cuddle, too...
i didn't know condi was blond. good dye job.
Damn the lemonade, full speed ahead to the Grey Goose!
diddley squat, don't you dare spoil it!
I will say this - I was very surprised by both surprises; but I'm waiting for Lemony Snicket #12. Oh, that reminds me - you've gotta see Daniel Handler delivering for UPS: Comedy Gold.
Bo--is it past 5 p.m. where you are? There's no Grey Goose before 5 p.m.
But as my da always said, it's 5 p.m. somewhere in the world.
"But why? That's what I really don't understand. Her pre and post invasion reporting was a huge embarassment To the Times and instead of firing her they act like she's a martyr. Crikey."
because the times respects her rolodex/access to insiders, and the stories they can get as a result of it. They don't care whether they are actually true or not..
Uncle Smokes--no cocoa oil here. I'm an Irish girl.
Begosh and begorra! Hit me in the shin with a shillely!
Me too! I mean I'm an Irish boy...then again, er, well, you know what I mean, dearie!
You'd best be keeping dat SPF fer y'self, lass, but a wee glass o' dat dere lemonade would suffice!
Well,
you know that Toby will be back on here in some sort of perverted disguise. It is only a matter of time. His ego would demand that he returns.
might be visible panning for gold...
Woody,
Where, pray tell, is this series that you speak of broadcast? Any chance for us East Coasters to check out yr. thespic prowess?
Left to their own devices, corporate journalists seem increasingly inclined to act as an arm of the government, not a watchdog of it.
Ahhhh... vertical integration. Well done.
-
We won't know until he puts his cards on the table. But the way he's playing, I wouldn't count on him to be bluffing.
Rmj, Wandering Aengus
always the voice of reason.
and Patrick Buchanan, not always the voice of reason
What is causing the early signs of a press feeding frenzy is a sense –probably correct –something big is coming down. After all, Patrick J. Fitzgerald has probably not spent two years turning over rocks without finding a lizard. And he and Judge Tom Hogan would probably not be sending journalists to jail unless they were onto something serious.
And if Judy Miller went to jail rather than reveal a source, why did the source not release her? Is she covering for a high White House aide with a serious criminal liability?
"there is something going on here and you don't know what it is, do you, mr jones." sorry, the anticipation is killing me. on the other hand these evil bastards could get away with it. they will still be guilty.
BTW, Bo, I got fresh imPEACHes at the farm--we're going to try those delicious Halliburton pork chops out tonight!
Leave Rove alone FIRE Bush. Start at the top and work down.
Poor New York Times.
They have to take Judy everywhere twice, once to apologize.
Those who do not learn for the past are doomed to repeat it.
Sallyh
6:30 here
And I'm off to the store!
.
I'm with you, charley. The suspence is killing me. Is this really going to go on for 4 more months?
Does anyone else wonder how the smirking chimp "won" an "accountability" moment in november, and by july has an approval rating of 42% and a 56% disapproval rating -- AND THIS IS EVEN WHEN THE MSM IS STILL GIVING THE CHIMPEROR WITH A FREE PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What would happen if the MSM reported even 1/2 the stuff on blogs like this, buzzflash, TPM, whatreallyhappened, and project for the old american century?
I really am curious what Patrick Fitzgerald has. The charges that have been discussed are very serious, but likely difficult to make stick. My theory is that he's got something huge and he's going to be damn sure it clings to the players like flies on shit.
" After all, Patrick J. Fitzgerald has probably not spent two years turning over rocks without finding a lizard. And he and Judge Tom Hogan would probably not be sending journalists to jail unless they were onto something serious."
actually, IIRC, he's been at this case for less then two years, and of that, 10 fucking months were wasted by cooper and miller fighting testifying. He knew what he needed very quickly.
To the Times and instead of firing her they act like she's a martyr. Crikey.
bigvic
What's the problem? This is the same newspaper that employs Brooks, Tierney and formerly Safire.
Anonymous--he didn't win it. He stole it.
"This suspense is terrible. I hope it will last."
-- Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest
1) Wilson is a homo and Rove, although partly responsible for the deaths of 1800 Americans and tens of thousands of innocint iraqis, is a bush loving hetero
2) You are terra wrist lovers
3) What's specious mean?
4) How do you get jizz out from between the cracks of a keyboard?
5) No important law was broken 'cept by that libural judy miller
6) you don't like the prizident and are disloyal
7) cliton did it!
And if Judy Miller went to jail rather than reveal a source, why did the source not release her? Is she covering for a high White House aide with a serious criminal liability?
Nah. Judith Miller is covering her own ass. She does nothing except for her own aggrandizement. I believe she, too, was a paid "journalist" by the pnacs.
Fuck her. I hope she rots in jail.
She betrayed America.
I've always been an absolute supporter of the duty -- not the right, but the duty
You have a duty to do what's right.
What's right is the fulfillment of sexual pleasure.
Therefore you have a duty to fuck.
Leave Rove alone FIRE Bush. Start at the top and work down.
I believe this is just a variation of the "cut off the head (brain) and the tail dies...
Does anyone really believe that the moron that goes around the country on a Social Security Bamboozle Tour, proclaiming tha the trust fund he blew on tax cuts and an illegal war is in charge?
They just trot this fool out for the dog and pony show -- the real action is somewhere else.
If there was any reason to believe chimpy was competent, you would be right -- remember his performance in the debates and the mysterious box on his back?
Chimpy is actually the least of our problems -- its the masters that manipulate him and give him orders that are the problem.
2 must-reads on the Plame affair (well, one is a must-listen):
http://www.davidcorn.com/2005/
07...ve_scanda_1.php
http://www.kcrw.com/cgi-bin/db/
k...tmplt_type=show
In the first, David Corn points us to a Cliff May article which shows May is either incredibly fucking stupid, or incredibly dishonest, or both.
In the second, Lawrence O'Donnell (anyone know how I can buy him a nice dinner or something -- I love the guy -- everytime I see him on TV he blows his opponents out of the water) -- O'Donnell makes Tony Blankley stutter and stammer and sound like the fucking idiot he is.
I'm with you, charley. The suspense is killing me. Is this really going to go on for 4 more months?
I also thought this was interesting:
Finally, if Plame herself was a confidential source of Miller's, and Judy betrayed her to the Rovians, then she doesn't deserve prison -- she deserves to be drawn and quartered, at least from the perspective of journalistic ethics.
The possibilities seem endless. I'm more interested in the memo Powell was reading on Air Force 1. Hoo boy!
I wonder what Cooper is gonna tell little Timmeh tomorrow.
Hope it's something juicy. I hope he's pissed that Rove's lawyer's been going after him most of the week.
Nuckin' futs, man!
Is this really going to go on for 4 more months?
bigvic
more like 12 bigvic! Enjoy, it's like the death of a thousand cuts until they strike a big vein - that's how watergate worked
Is this really going to go on for 4 more months?
bigvic
more like 12 bigvic! Enjoy, it's like the death of a thousand cuts until they strike a big vein - that's how watergate worked
Late summer/early fall 2006 would suit me just fine...
I bet Ari Fleischer was on the plane to Africa with Colin Powell, the Neocons, Rove, etc. and heard and saw everything as they plotted the War on Joe Wilson. When Patrick Fitzgerald puts the squeeze on Ari, Ari's gonna start singing like a canary.
What a beautiful voice little Ari has.
Sallyh,
Do use your own culinary descretion. The chef was pretty well marinated the night it was concocted, but it seemed pretty good.
Bloggers. End of Cycle, since when Atrios goes corporate (as he has with his Eschaton Magazine) or Kos goes commerical, there will be new faces to spring up to watch them and others.
Perfection, thy name is Blog.
Sallyh,
Anonymous | 07.16.05 - 7:41 pm | #
That was me.
Patrick J. Fitzgerald statement
October 2, 2005, 10am:
"Col. Mustard, in the Library, with the candlestick."
I bet Ari Fleischer was on the plane to Africa with Colin Powell, the Neocons, Rove, etc. and heard and saw everything as they plotted the War on Joe Wilson. When Patrick Fitzgerald puts the squeeze on Ari, Ari's gonna start singing like a canary.
I believe I read, a propos that memo and Fitzgerald's request for AF1 phone logs, that Rove and Cheney were home on that trip. Thus the need to look at those phone logs...
I wonder what Cooper is gonna tell little Timmeh tomorrow.
General Electric, Timmeh's employer has made billions of dollars on the Iraq War. Pumpkinhead gets at least 5 million of those dollars every year.
What do you think he might do..fuck up?
whew - had to run out an pick up my daughter at the mall. then i get back and see the grey goose refs - think i'll head back out and get one.
later, batses. maybe my new gravatar will be up and working by the time i return.....
all i'm saying is Pat has experience in these things. he knows how it works.
meanwhile it will probably be awhile. pres. dipwit will get to further ruin the nation with a SCOTUS nomination, possibly two.
much to my chagrin someone in here once reminded me that kent state had happened before that loathsome bastard nixon was re-elected.
there is something very damaged about the american psyche.
"Col. Mustard, in the Library, with the candlestick."
The Average Kreskin
2 out of 3, try again.
"a Cliff May article which shows May is either incredibly fucking stupid, or incredibly dishonest, or both".. I go with both!
Bo--all great chefs are well marinated
more like 12 bigvic! Enjoy, it's like the death of a thousand cuts until they strike a big vein - that's how watergate worked
Archibald Tuttle
IIeeeeee! As long as they get every last one of these rat bastards, I can wait. I like the timing Eli suggests, but hope the scandal lingers deep into the fall of '08
all great chefs are well marinated
mmmmmMMMM. a nice tender chef.
all great chefs are well marinated - sallyh
I will drink to that! [/kid shaleen]
Fitzgerald could very well have the same thing that the idiot Starr had, absolutely nothing. I'm having nightmares about how all of this hoopla gets turned around and the Dems look like fools. I'm going to watch for a while and then I'll get crazy when something concrete appears.
The Half-Blood Prince is . . . .
(spoiler alert)
Count Olaf.
.
My theory is that he's got something huge and he's going to be damn sure it clings to the players like flies on shit.
Of course he will, if he actually follows through on this -- after all, he was suppose to be chimpy's boy, a republican lawyer with a reputation for being a bulldog -- just the right man to make this whole problem go away.
Can you imagine what Fitzgerald's life (and career path) will be like if he creates all of this ruckus and cannot deliver the goods?
On the other hand, it might be the perfect way to make the downing street memo story go away -- just look what they did to dan rather.
Into The West
On TNT, but only once tonight, i think...
twice tomorrow night, though, local times might vary...it's 6 and 8 pm MDT tomorrow, though only once at 6 pm tonight...
Anonymous--he didn't win it. He stole it.
Sallyh | Email | Homepage | 07.16.05 - 7:36 pm | #
This anonymous has been saying that all through the theads this afternoon.
a republican lawyer with a reputation for being a bulldog -- just the right man to make this whole problem go away.
A registered Independent, IIRC.
Gym,
Not to worry, comparing this to Whitewater is "apples-and-oranges". This out-watergates Watergate. I have visions of Bush in the Hauge.That's going to take years, but this is where it starts.
WOuld it be considered mean to say that I have no sympathy for Judy Miller?
When I hear the name Judith Miller I automatically think of Chalabi and his gang of thugs working with Cheney. If Miller is in jail its because she is defending Cheney or someone in his office. I doubt this investigation is only about Rove. Miller worked as a press agent for Cheney so she is likely hiding something for the Office of Special Plans.
Bo,
I certainly hope you're right. Taking these people out would do a lot to bringing civility back into our discourse.
The end of Bush will remind us of the scene in Fargo when they nab William H. Macy in the motel squealing like a pig in his underwear.
WOuld it be considered mean to say that I have no sympathy for Judy Miller?
Yes, if you're talking about a statistical average.
MTP should be good tomorrow
from MSNBC:
Sunday, July 17
Matthew Cooper on his grand jury testimony. Then, RNC chair Ken Mehlman & John Podesta, fmr. Clinton Chief of Staff on CIA leak. Plus Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein.
Bush can't fire Rove. He needs him too much.
I mean, Rove is the one who works Chimpy's strings while Cheney makes his mouth move.
General Electric, Timmeh's employer has made billions of dollars on the Iraq War. Pumpkinhead gets at least 5 million of those dollars every year.
What do you think he might do..fuck up?
i love that guy in here who does the parody of dick calling up the CEO of GE, letting him know which side his bread is buttered on. well, don't actually love it, since it is probably closer to truth than parody.
The end of Bush will remind us of the scene in Fargo when they nab William H. Macy in the motel squealing like a pig in his underwear.
It will remind me of dorothy throwing water on the witch.
"I'M MELTING!!!!! MELTING!!!!!! OHHHHHH!!! MELTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The douchbag BoBo has done it again. Reading his stuff is like watching an avalanche...once it starts, it's just a question of how bad will it be.
Giuliani didn't just take on urban liberalism, he offered a set of reforms that emphasized competition, accountability, hard work and upward mobility. He not only challenged the entrenched civil service, but had an alternative way to manage the welfare state, which he absorbed from the Manhattan Institute and books like David Osborne's "Reinventing Government."
Are we to assume that urban liberalism rejects competition, accountability and hard work. What an absolute jerk off!
A registered Independent, IIRC.
Central Scrutinizer
He dropped that, too once he realized it was a political party as well. He now has no party identity at all. He was appointed by a thug, is all.
Are we to assume that urban liberalism rejects competition, accountability and hard work.
And encourages pedophile priests!
The end of Bush will remind us of the scene in Fargo when they nab William H. Macy in the motel squealing like a pig in his underwear.
I'm hoping for a Jim Baker type whimpering meltdown.
If Miller is in jail its because she is defending Cheney or someone in his office. I doubt this investigation is only about Rove. Miller worked as a press agent for Cheney so she is likely hiding something for the Office of Special Plans.
Bluto W Bush
I'm dying to find out what her role is in this whole mess. She must be very involved to go to jail, instead of testifying. Who is she covering for??
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the new Harry Potter starts bashing Bush on the first page. Calls him "a wretched man." Then someone pops out of Tony Blair's fireplace.
Are we to assume that urban liberalism rejects competition, accountability and hard work.
And enables terrorists.
Here's my own pet theory:
Miller's source on Plame is the same one she had for all the other bullshit: Chalabi.
The only way this whole thing could get any worse for Bushco would be if they outed a CIA operative to a guy now suspected (though still on the US payroll) of spying for the Iranians - who then passed on the word, as Rove intended.
Ok, so it's not likely. I just like imagining how much worse it could be for them.
A registered Independent, IIRC.
Central Scrutinizer | Email | 07.16.05 - 7:52 pm | #
Thanks for the correct -- but it was reported that he was a republican when this all started.
I did not look into it closely myself, I have to respect the way it is working out so far, but many thought that chimpy was toast when the real story of his guard came out too.
Instead, they just turned it around and made him out to be the "victim."
Chimpy has never been successful at anything -- including his presidential campagnes, but friends of the family's war-machine made sure that they "pulled him through"
Then again, a lot of liberals (Hillary Clinton, John Kerry) did enable a terrorist (George Bush) by giving him the go ahead to stick his flypaper in Iraq.
So maybe it does.........
Ok, I admit it.
Miller has been covering for me.
Chimpy has never been successful at anything -- including his presidential campagnes, but friends of the family's war-machine made sure that they "pulled him through"
He's living proof that actual success is nowhere near as important as the *appearance* of success.
Giuliani didn't just take on urban liberalism, he offered a set of reforms that emphasized competition, accountability, hard work and upward mobility.
Hahahahahaha. Epitomized by the fine, upstanding, hard working Bernie Kerik. Such great pals and bibnez buds.
I'm hoping for a Jim Baker type whimpering meltdown.
That's what I'm visualizing.
Besides the death and destruction, they're not too different.
Fucking con men.
Giuliani didn't just take on urban liberalism, he offered a set of reforms that emphasized competition, accountability, hard work and upward mobility.
And shined Bernie's head.
Exactly right Billmon. I was never conflicted about this situation. It's as if Woodward and Bernstein were part of the cover up. Miller and Cooper aren't journalists, they're tools.
He's the ultimate archetypal example of the principle of "failing upwards" or "rising to the level of one's own incompetence."
On second thought, he surpassed his level of incompetence some 35 years or so ago.
Chalabi.
The only way this whole thing could get any worse for Bushco would be if they outed a CIA operative to a guy now suspected (though still on the US payroll) of spying for the Iranians - who then passed on the word, as Rove intended.
Remember the Bush cabal "convinced" the King of Jordan to drop embezzlement charges against Chalabi. That was $300,000,000 that disappeared from the Bank of Jordan.
Little known fact:
Rove once actually met Valerie Plame.
It was in the middle of the night on a fog-enshrouded bridge in Moscow. Valerie was standing beneath a streetlight, wearing a trenchcoat with the collar turned up. A broad-brimmed hat was pulled down low across her face, touching her dark sunglasses.
Rove approached her.
"Are you an undercover CIA agent?" he asked.
"Yes," she whispered back.
"Well, if you're undercover, what are you doing here dressed like that?"
"It's my day off," Valerie answered.
Oh, Woot! What a disapointment that you are the party responsable for St. Judith Fucking Chalabi's stint in the pokey. *Sigh*
Frank Rich has been eating his Wheaties lately. Today is no exception.
The difference is that this time Mr. Rove got caught.
Even so, we shouldn't get hung up on him - or on most of the other supposed leading figures in this scandal thus far. Not Matt Cooper or Judy Miller or the Wilsons or the bad guy everyone loves to hate, the former CNN star Robert Novak. This scandal is not about them in the end, any more than Watergate was about Dwight Chapin and Donald Segretti or Woodward and Bernstein. It is about the president of the United States. It is about a plot that was hatched at the top of the administration and in which everyone else, Mr. Rove included, are at most secondary players.
http://www.nytimes.com
OT: The perfect venue for memorializing the accomplishments of Little Bitch George and his malministration is in Plano, Texas.
Then again, a lot of liberals (Hillary Clinton, John Kerry) did enable a terrorist (George Bush) by giving him the go ahead to stick his flypaper in Iraq.
I'm sick and tired of listening to you blame them for the mess we're in now.
Go Fuck yourself.
OT: The perfect venue for memorializing the accomplishments of Little Bitch George and his malministration is in Plano, Texas.
Oh, wow. I think a pilgrimage is necessary.
It is about the president of the United States.
Pray with me Karl.
I'm sick and tired of listening to you blame them for the mess we're in now.
Go Fuck yourself.
They voted for he "flypaper" in Iraq.
They're partially resposible for the 58 people who died today.
Go fuck yourself.
They voted for he "flypaper" in Iraq.
Bullshit.
Thanks DWD for the link to Frank Rich
I loved this:
Next to White House courtiers of their rank, Mr. Wilson is at most a Rosencrantz or Guildenstern. The brief against the administration's drumbeat for war would be just as damning if he'd never gone to Africa. But by overreacting in panic to his single Op-Ed piece of two years ago, the White House has opened a Pandora's box it can't slam shut. Seasoned audiences of presidential scandal know that there's only one certainty ahead: the timing of a Karl Rove resignation. As always in this genre, the knight takes the fall at exactly that moment when it's essential to protect the king.
Beautifully put!
It is about the president of the United States. It is about a plot that was hatched at the top of the administration and in which everyone else, Mr. Rove included, are at most secondary players.
Word. Bush personally chose and promoted these rat bastard players, 'cause he relates to them and their sleazy tactics and policies. Boosh is *not a good man.*
Wow...was just over at Crooks & Liars, and I learned a bit of history I was unaware of:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Coup.htm
Just wanted to pass it along....
I would like to see this end like "Fried Green Tomatoes."
Bush: Look, Karl would never just disappear.
Laura: it's very strange honey. Want some more ribs?
Bush: You bet.
Thanks DWD for the link to Frank Rich
Thanks again. He's a necessary voice of clarity through these insane times.
Fuck all those who helped select Chimpy in 2000.
I will never forgive or forget them.
"I'm dying to find out what her role is in this whole mess. She must be very involved to go to jail, instead of testifying. Who is she covering for??
portia"
first, her source. remember that cooper got an unconditional waver from rove's attny, but whoever JM's source is, she didn't get that same waver.
Second, she is covering her own ass for probably both professional and personal culpability. If she squaks without the waver, her career may be toast, but if it doesn't expose any lianility to a neocon, she'll be taken care of by them forever. If she is the leaker of Plame's ID, she in legal deep shit, too.
Her best bet is to serve her 4 months, then pray that fitz doesn't press criminal contempt charges. If he does, he can grant her immunity, but then she's gotta blow the whistle. If she still doesn't blow the whistle despite an offer of immunity, you know this is at the very highest levels of gvt, and that this is 10x worse then watergate.
Laura: it's very strange honey. Want some more ribs?
And can I have some of those BUSH Baked Beans?
when does rove get the brain cancer justice like lee?
Spinoza--my favorite line in the movie?
"It's hog killin' time."
If she still doesn't blow the whistle despite an offer of immunity, you know this is at the very highest levels of gvt, and that this is 10x worse then watergate.
jdw |
Their only diversion to a political if not a legal "out" will be another terrorist attack. Remember Clinton tried to get the sexual harassment thing delayed until after he left office. BushCo will claim how can we be distracted while the Nation is under attack.
They voted for he "flypaper" in Iraq.
Bullshit.
pie | Email | Homepage | 07.16.05 - 8:18 pm | #
OK. Kerry and Hillary only voted to "give Bush the authority to go to war in Iraq". He never thought Bush would actually use it.
How could I have forgotten that.
Look you dumb as a fucking stone cultist. You brainwashed fool.
If Muslims have to accept responsbility for London, then we Americans had better fucking accept responsibiity for what happened today. I'm not giving John Kerry a pass on voting for the war (oh. I'm sorry. Voting for giving Bush the resposibility to start the war in Iraq without thinking he'd actuall use it). I guess you are.
Countdown until "Pie" starts accusing me of being a "name stealer"
10,9,8,7......
If she still doesn't blow the whistle despite an offer of immunity, you know this is at the very highest levels of gvt, and that this is 10x worse then watergate.
jdw
I think we all know what the highest levels of this admin are capable of. I just want to see them caught for a change. They covered their tracks too well with the Diebold voting machines, at least for now. They got cocky and thought they were invincable. Heh. We'll see.
It's become obvious to me over the past few days that Plamegate is much, much bigger than simply Karl Rove telling whoever that Plame was a CIA operative.
Yes, that is a crime. A felony. But the big story is who ALL was involved in its planning, execution, and now cover up. My guess is Dick Cheney and George Bush (along with the usual suspects).
Karl Rove is the field general. He's playing/doing his part. Protecting the kings. But he's not Fitzpatrick's target.
George Bush and Dick Cheney are involved in - as define by American law - treason. They have betrayed their country.
Fitzpatrick knows this is bigger than Rove. He knows Miller has much more to offer than simply confirming Rove's role. In fact, she may be an active participant in the outing and smear campaign.
The question nows does Fitzpatrick have the resolve, support and tools needed to see this investigation through to the end?
For America's sake, I hope so.
How could I have forgotten that.
Because it wasn't true to begin with?
You have a problem. Get help.
bigvic - I think Ohio's far from over. We've had the revelations about Republican funny-money shenanigans there; the pot's on simmer in those cases but the Plame Affair could in fact help it come to a boil.
one of the interesting issues about judy, judy, judy[and maybe even matt] is who does she really work for?
has she been a spook seconded to the nyt? was matt a spook seconded to time?
additionally, you might want to ask, how many intell services ran her? israeli intell[putting her into a similar role as jonathan pollard] as well as amerikan intell[putting her into the category of yeoman radford].
we know that walter pincus was/is a part of the outfit. and we know that the outfit operated hundreds of us journalists.
judy, matt, and robert dracula - all spooks? or on spook payrolls?
I'm torn over all of this Cooper-Miller-Rove hoopla. One, I support Miller for not telling who her sources are, and I was appalled at Time for capitulating. However, what has come to light with Rove is illuminating.
Thus, I have concluded that what Rove did wasn't illegal, though it was unethical. That means there is no obstruction of justice. However, it is clear that he did it for political reasons. I'm just not too quick to shout for his ouster over this because of the ill-begotten means that the information came to light. So really, it's more of the political see-saw by the Left and the Right that controls American political discourse nowadays.
The yard is done. Are we having fun?
.
You want a non-denial denial? Try this on for size: I don't know where the WMD aren't. How's that?
-
The landlord's neighbors are having a party. A massive party. If I leave to get beer, I may not have a place to park when I get back!
.
The yard is done. Are we having fun?
Well, now we have albertchampion and a reincarnation of Adam 4-4-2.
Whatever.
bigvic - I think Ohio's far from over. We've had the revelations about Republican funny-money shenanigans there; the pot's on simmer in those cases but the Plame Affair could in fact help it come to a boil.
Can we get the Toledo Blade on it?
Please?
pie: Well, now we have albertchampion and a reincarnation of Adam 4-4-2.
I didn't see anything out of character with either.
.
Jennifer,
Oh please please PLEASE be right about that. Hopefully the rare coins crap will have folks way less inclined to think their dear GOP is pure as the driven snow.
when does rove get the brain cancer justice like lee?
peterboy
Watch - you may have your post removed like one of mine was earlier.
Can't offend the fascists, you know!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Joi...es_Against_Iraq
There's a whole bunch of misery to spread around on that hideous vote. Picking on the favorite punching bags, Kerry and Clinton, is pointless.
This was a new Tonkin resolution, aznd there were plenty in power who knew their history and should have known better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Gul...nkin_Resolution
The Tonkin resolution was opposed by only 2 senators. At least there were more "Nays" this time:
http://www.senate.gov/
legislativ...=00237#position
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/...2/
roll455.xml#N
Why does EVERYONE in Jeepers Creepers act like idiots?
when does rove get the brain cancer justice like lee?
That'd be what we call "Karlma".
Then again, a lot of liberals (Hillary Clinton, John Kerry) did enable a terrorist (George Bush) by giving him the go ahead to stick his flypaper in Iraq.
Who was the commander in chief?
Thus, I have concluded that what Rove did wasn't illegal, though it was unethical. That means there is no obstruction of justice. However, it is clear that he did it for political reasons. I'm just not too quick to shout for his ouster over this because of the ill-begotten means that the information came to light.
rove looks like a traitor to me. i mean if you believe his accounts, maybe you conclude that he didnt break the law. thats a big if.
Can we get the Toledo Blade on it?
Word. Let them show the lazy assed fools from the "big papers" how much they forgot about investigative reporting. It's become a lost art.
Flashback...
"What administration officials have been saying since the weekend, basically, that Richard Clarke from their vantage point was a disgruntled former government official, angry because he didn't get a certain promotion. He's got a hot new book out now that he wants to promote. He wants to make a few bucks, and that his own personal life, they're also suggesting there are some weird aspects in his life."
-- Wolf Blitzer, March 2004
A funny thing happened to David Letterman this week. Actually, it only started out funny. And the unfunny ending fits into a disturbing pattern.
On Monday, Mr. Letterman ran a video clip of a boy yawning and fidgeting during a speech by George Bush. It was harmless stuff; a White House that thinks it's cute to have Mr. Bush make jokes about missing W.M.D. should be able to handle a little ribbing about boring speeches.
CNN ran the Letterman clip on Tuesday, just before a commercial. Then the CNN anchor Daryn Kagan came back to inform viewers that the clip was a fake: "We're being told by the White House that the kid, as funny as he was, was edited into that video." Later in the day, another anchor amended that: the boy was at the rally, but not where he was shown in the video.
On his Tuesday night show, Mr. Letterman was not amused: "That is an out and out 100 percent absolute lie. The kid absolutely was there, and he absolutely was doing everything we pictured via the videotape."
But here's the really interesting part: CNN backed down, but it told Mr. Letterman that Ms. Kagan "misspoke," that the White House was not the source of the false claim. (So who was? And if the claim didn't come from the White House, why did CNN run with it without checking?)
In short, CNN passed along a smear that it attributed to the White House. When the smear backfired, it declared its previous statements inoperative and said the White House wasn't responsible. Sound familiar?
From St. Paul
Shbinga--Toby was a little basement boy fascist who had an intense dislike of women. Come to think of it, most of the troll types do.
Sallyh
Oh, he's still around.
He just uses different names.
Who was the commander in chief?
On the other hand, to quote Married With Children, "If you give a gun to an ape, and the ape shoots someone, you don't blame the ape!"
"hey covered their tracks too well with the Diebold voting machines, at least for now. They got cocky and thought they were invincable. Heh. We'll see.
bigvic "
I'm just unable to get the dieboldsoftwareriggedohio stuff. i just can't.
however, there was a story in the columbus disgrace about diebold today. It seems that a diebold agent walked into the franklin co boe(headed by a gooper) and wrote out a check for $10,000. the dumbshit gooper co. boe head said the check couldn't be made out to him, but the franklin county gop would be glad to accept it. he accepted the check then mailed it to the franklin co gop.
So, we have the first instance in ohio of diebold reputedly paying off an official for favors in selecting their voting machines. this is huge, of course, but could get much bigger.
The reason it can get much bigger is that it's reported that coingate broke when bernadette noe suspected a fellow boe employee in toledo of taking kickbacks from diebold. she reported him to the prosecutor, but the prosecuter ended up going after her. I've wondered all along...why did she even suspect that diebold was paying kickbacks?
looks like we now know why...
I didn't see anything out of character with either.
I haven't seen the latter for months.
Well, have a nice evening.
I'm sure you're doing your part to save America.
Adam - your analysis is flawed. While there might be nothing out there right now that proves that Rove did something illegal, the facts aren't all in. IMO, even Rove telling someone "that's the same story I'm hearing" to push the idea that Plame was a CIA operative violates the law, because anyone with a security clearance to know the information is sworn to protect it. That would include remaining mum when queried about it by parties who do not have the clearance to know.
By not being "too quick to shout for his ouster over this" you are implicitly saying the following:
"I'm ok with having a threat to national security operating at the highest levels of government, out of the White House, with free access to virtually every piece of sensitive information needed to protect the nation. I'm ok with the idea that he can remain in that position, even as it costs us the cooperation of every foreign intelligence agency in the world, who put a higher value on protecting intelligence and know not to share it with people who will use it for partisan gain, even when it enables terrorists to evade capture at the expense of the safety of the world's civilian population."
Let's just be clear about what it is you're saying when you claim it's just a big political mudfight.
R.C. Richards: Let's face a few facts
Facts?
Trolls are allergic to facts!
Who was the commander in chief?
On the other hand, to quote Married With Children, "If you give a gun to an ape, and the ape shoots someone, you don't blame the ape!"
Eli |
Yeah, that's true.
But don't you think Chimpy would have gone ahead and did what he wanted anyway?
He thinks he's king, you know!
Don't get me wrong. He should be ousted. I just don't like how the information came out. Now that it is, he should be gone just based on what is known. It's unclear whether he broke a law.
I only want to advise caution not to go into a feeding frenzy over this, that's all.
Oh, and pie. I posted a few days ago.
Giuliani didn't just take on urban liberalism, he offered a set of reforms that emphasized competition, accountability, hard work and upward mobility
and let's not forget his championing of family values!
But don't you think Chimpy would have gone ahead and did what he wanted anyway?
He thinks he's king, you know!
I'm sure he would have. But at least the Democrats' hands would be clean.
I wonder if the only reason he even let it be put to a vote was for this exact reason - to make it harder for Dems to criticize the war later.
Adam - repetitive recitation of the stuff I posted, in response to every GOP whine about mean Dems and poor poor Karl and Joe Wilson's a liar and his wife was a secretary is all that's needed. Of course it would be characterized as a "feeding frenzy" by the Republicans and the press, but who cares? It's all that needs be said.
I make that observation on my own, thank you very much.
I guess the real question is, will Bush fire his Goebbels?
. It seems that a diebold agent walked into the franklin co boe(headed by a gooper) and wrote out a check for $10,000. the dumbshit gooper co. boe head said the check couldn't be made out to him, but the franklin county gop would be glad to accept it. he accepted the check then mailed it to the franklin co gop.
I saw that too, jdw. Stunning how brazen they are,
"I wonder if the only reason he even let it be put to a vote was for this exact reason - to make it harder for Dems to criticize the war later.
Eli"
Oh, I'm SURE that why Rove and Cheney told him to do!
I've seen Adam 4-4-2 post in here before.
One of the less obvious trolls.
This is a good argument for Kuttner's proposed "public interest test" in journalistic privelege cases. The judge could actually talk to the reporter in chambers, promising not to reveal anything, if he needed to know who the source being protected was to determine whether or not disclosure was in the public interest. Then if the judge ruled against the reporter, she could still refuse to testify if she were willing to do the time.
My daughter has just informed me who the half-blood prince is and who he kills. Anyone want to know?
Diddley Squat | 07.16.05 - 7:19 pm | #
YES. would you email me, pls.
What, pray tell, makes me a troll? That I sometimes have a differing opinion on something? I thought this was a forum for discussion, not choir preaching.
For the record, I probably agree 75-80% of the time with the posters here.
What I don't understand here is the claim that Miller is somehow "protecting your source" so that "whistle-blowers" are willing to blow the whistle in the future, but it's one thing for Rove to tell Miller "Joe Wilson is highly partisan and I don't trust him" but quite another to say "his wife is a covert op". Once this happens, I have no problem with Miller or any journalist from not narcing on the source, but if someone asks you a question specifically saying "Did Rove say this to you?" you should answer truthfully. As far as I'm concerned it's not narcing if they're already on to him. In fact, to go full circle, isn't it just confirming the fact that is already out that Rove is a prick?
A devout Christian liberal friend of mine just pointed out that Rove looks like the Nazi with glasses in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Yeah... put a black hat on that motherfucker, and they're spitting images.
So, in an era of corporate journalists you would sacrifice the idea of confidential sources for all future iterations of journalists? If you think we're ever going to return to professional, aggressive and productive journalism without shield laws and the principle of cofidentiality in place you're straight out of your minds.
See Kevin Drum's site for an update on the chilling effect already under way at Time Magazine. Remember, while you're rightfully bashing their accommodating stance toward the right winf, that Time Magazine, through sources, produced the never-denied ``Fuck Saddam'' quote from Bush.
Looks like a slow night around the Eschaton. I wonder if Walter Neff is watching his namesake right now on TCM.
Isn't this getting a little pathetic? Tom DeLay should be in jail. Karl Rove belongs in jail. George W. Bush should be impeached. Rumsfeld is a war criminal. Gonzales is a torturer.
What a positive agenda!
Bill Clinton built a bridge to the 21st century and all his party finds there is seething hatred and rage.
This "hatriol" may serve your short-term therapeutic needs, but you have to know that it is inevitably self-defeating.
In a moment of awful self-knowledge Richard Nixon described the ultimate end-result of such hate. Go back and read his insight.
The Vietnam template isn't going to work. The Watergate/Iran-Contra one isn't going to either.
Do I have to point out the obvious?
You can't beat something with nothing.
What was the "Embeded Journalist" role in the disposition of this "Weekend War"?
Let's not forget that that is how this bloody tragedy was marketed to US.
There was abundant thought and insight devoted to the manipulation of the so-called-journalists.
They are a bunch of chumps! They ALL have a moral obligations to right thier wrongs. That is, if they have any interest in redeeming thier reputations and their souls.
OUT !!!!!!!!!
NOW !!!!!!!!!!!
You guys are freakin' idiots
Maybe it's time for journalists to organize and and get a license-to-journalist thing going. With some initials to tag onto their bylines to identify themselves as licensed. And a journalist review board that revokes licenses (and intials) from, say, liars and such.
why is it that you think that judy, judy, judy wasn't/isn't an intell asset?
just think on her access.
i equate her with those other c*nts, laurie mylroie[sic], who i also think to have been an asset. along with steno sue, nedra the pickled, jodi wilgoren. et alia.
of what intell agency? rumsfield's osp? mossad? shin beth? dia? nsc[lovers of condi]?
i insist that you cannot decipher this tale until you learn who the puppeteers were. who manipulated judy, judy, judy? who manipulates judy, judy, judy? who manipulates the nyt? the wapo?
the moonster?
fitzgerald is cui. guy's set up to become the new spitzer. corruption be gone!
The key to remember in all of this is the phrase "corporate media" or "corporate journalism". That's the problem folks. The so-called journalists are just everyday schmoes like everyone elese--out to make a buck, afraid to rock the boat, gotta feed the kids, climb the corporate ladder and so on. They ain't there to inform the public or to perform a watch dog role over government. Far from it.
Why aren't people asking more questions about Mike Allen and Dana Priest, who wrote the first Washington Post Rovegate story?
They say they talked to a Bushco official who specifically stated that the leaking was orchestrated and had the express purpose of gaining revenge.
Why haven't Allen and Priest been hauled in front of the grand jury to find out who this knowledgable source is? Anyone got a clue?
look, i go back to that other 11/09. 1973. the us-directed overthrow of the elected govt of chile.
and the us-directed assassinations of general carlos prats, general rene schneider - both opposed to the nixon-kissinger authorized coup.
republicans overthrowing governments. but dems overthrew them too. think on lbj in the dominican republic. let alone vietnam.
the story i think that should be remembered is how the repthugs dealt with chilean terrorism. orlando letelier and two us citizens, blown up by dina on embassy row. gerald ford was the unelected resident, ghwbush was his dci.
just to refresh you memory, the usa did nothing to avenge this act of terrorism. it was almost as if we had orchestrated it.
and we did.
and you need to go back to that era, approx 30 years ago to read how the us press dealt with the assassination of allende, the murders of letelier and moffit[sic].
doing the research, you would have to conclude that the press was in the pocket of the secret state.
i did my thesis on the kennedy/johnson dod and its weapons system procurements. suffice it to say, i encountered few journalists who didn't have their noses buried up the rectums of the state. izzie stone was different. and eventually, barron's broke with the pack.
but in my encounters concerning the tfx,f111 reporting, most of the press - mcgraw-hill specifially, preferred to rimjob the state.
nothing has changed.
if you think i have it wrong, just ask bob parry, sy hersh, syd schanberg.
i am a chilean, perhaps.
listening to inti-illimani tonight, my blood boils. i want justice for the victims of the bushits. and i want it soon. the sooner the better.
ok, it is a bad night. costa-gavras MISSING.
guzman's BATTLE FOR CHILE.
who wants to be a citizen of this country?
not me. but where is the better place?
fascinating(/Lt.Spock)
It's been a long time since high school Latin, but shouldn't that be "Quis custodiet..." and not "quid"?
From her end, I see Judith Miller having three options.
1) She refuses to appear before the grand jury and talk. (What she is currently doing).
2) She does show up at the grand jury, but only to assert her Fifth Amendment right...which means she refuses to talk to the grand jury and implies that she may be culpable in some manner.
3) She shows up at the grand jury and talks, not staying away, not invoking the Fifth Amendment.
I'm no lawyer, but I've read that once a person shows up to testify before a grand jury...and doesn't just state their name prior to invoking the Fifth Amendment, then the door opens and the grand jury can ask them any question about what they are investigating...about anyone.
Apparently, one of Judith Miller's sources has given her the green light to testify, but she instead has chosen to tough-it-out by going to jail.
Which means to me that another source, or other sources, has not given her permission to testify and thus reveal their name to the grand jury, because once Miller mentions one source, then she will be compelled to mention them all.
Conclusion: Miller is protecting someone very high up in the Bush administration. Someone who prefers, like Rove, to pull the strings of government without revealing they are doing the pulling. A corrupt, manipulative person who knows that their political career (and thus their political power) either will be over or greatly reduced if Miller rats them out. Hell, this person may even end up in jail for being a traitor to our national security by letting their "loose lips" sink the undercover status of Valerie Plame.
Therefore, we will know just how serious Patrick Fitzgerald is really taking this outing of a covert CIA agent when he does one of the two following things: 1) He lets the present grand jury end it's term, Judith Miller is released and then Fitzgerald issues a ?final? report, or 2) the present grand jury ends with Judith Miller still in jail not testifying...and Fitzgerald calls her to testify before the next grand jury. She refuses and ends up in jail again. Or Fitzgerald files criminal charges against Miller, thus upping the ante from the current civil charges against her.
In other words, I believe Fitzgerald now knows that Miller is covering up for one of the Bad Boys on top at the White House. Cheney? Rumsfeld? Bush, himself? Miller is aware that her career as a Republican Party insider and mouthpiece will be over if she rats out one of these fine neo-con examples of patriotism who put their country before partisan politics. (HaHa).
So, everyone is intimately aware of the high stakes involved in Miller testifying...and telling the truth about her involvement in the Valerie Plame case, as well as who her insider contacts are at the White House.
If Fitzgerald follows the second option above and keeps the pressure on Miller, then I'll know that he is taking very seriously the blatant endangerment of all members of our intelligence community who were also attacked when Valerie Plame was outed as a covert CIA operative.
If Fitzgerald follows the first option above, then I'll know that he has decided to side with the Republican cretins in the White House, and could care less about what damage the leak did to our intelligence gathering and processing capabilities, thus being no different than the person for whom Judith Miller is covering, and thus just as much a national security risk as them.
We will know shortly.
I think the Federal judge clearly pinned this one: the journalist's shield cannot be used to protect lawbreakers.
Whistleblowers should remain protected, but Karl Rove was no whistleblower: by telling Miller and Cooper and Novak that Plame was working for the CIA, he broke the law.
Judith Miller deserves to stay in jail until she identifies who broke the law by telling her the identity of a covert CIA agent, if that's the 'source' she's 'shielding'.
there has to be a distinction made between protecting a source that reveals information and protecting a source that reveals information for the purpose of misleading the public and disparaging someone.
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
