I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
HA-HA!
gOD HATES fags.
Amen to the Left Behind review. Scary stuff.
And hey kids, don't forget to take the poll!
What unit of currency would be most appropriate for Dubya?
Shellfish are and abomination. Homos are an abomination according to the Old Testiment. Lots of "Christians eat shrimp, so are they as evil as queers in the eyes of God?
I think he's really on to something here. The same purpose would be served by decrying the evil of left-handedness or different skin color, or living somewhere other than the US , etc. Asisde from the natural tendency to identify your own group as good there is this religious satisfaction element that I hadn't though of.
Fred Clark probably doesn't understand what the queers are doing to the soil.
Interesting that Walmart won't carry 'America, the Book' but stocks the 'Left Behind' crap in droves.
Lots of "Christians" eat shrimp
well, they're comitting the sin of shellfishness.
Sen. Man on dog and the LB crowd pick and choose what they believe in literally in the Bible. Should we call them cafeteria Christians?
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.
Evil Walter--take your meds now, okay? Sounds like your schizophrenia is acting up again.
Don't you have to leave your clothes behind when you're Raptured? Is it permissible to run around bare-assed naked in Heaven?
my son in law asked me if i had that crap. i told him i don't money to moonies. he was shocked to learn that moon publishes those books.
well, they're comitting the sin of shellfishness.
Pere Ubu
Heh heh heh.
Interesting that Walmart won't carry 'America, the Book' but stocks the 'Left Behind' crap in droves.
the "Left Behind" series, the "Left Behind: The Kids" series, the Nicolae prequel, the "Left Behind" boardgame, both "Left Behind" movies, the "Left Behind" coloring book...
(no, I don't know if there's a coloring book, but it sure as pshitt wouldn't suprise me.)
It's FUN living in the Religious South!
Lime Rickey--I was thinking the same thing. All the whackos get raptured out of their clothes, hence nudity, and in the JS book, the Supremes just need their clothes put on. A ridiculous standard, indeed.
Left behind?
Go ahead.
-
although I am a sodomite, I don't even plan on reading this Cliff Notes version of Left Behind.
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, anyhow 
Does anyone know if any of the protagonists in the LB series make freaking tons of money?
Renato--then you're in the right bar
You've found the ideal target for self-exempting, self-justifying self-righteousness.
Judgment is for Other People.
Could also be the theme of the Bu$h pResidency.
BTW, for those of you who don't know, the "online magazine" Slacktivist does regular Friday analysis of "Left Behind"... a couple pages at a time. But his comments are really incisive.
I work for an organization providing books on tape for the blind and dyslexic, so we have a lot of folks who are rather older... It is disturbing how popular the Left Behind books are...
Is it permissible to run around bare-assed naked in Heaven?
let's hope not. jerry falwell...eww.
i believe you will be adorned in your new spirit body with pure white raiments.
oh, and no sex in heaven.
and no animals, i never did quite get that.
no matter, i'm surely going to hell. where i'll be much happier i'm sure.
oh, duh.
I didn't realize Atrios' posting was a LINK to Slacktivist.
Stu-pid baby! *smack*
charley--not to mention that in hell, all your friends will be there.
i got the left behind thong
my sister is now a texas religious right wingnut (she's a transplant there) -- very strict husband, he's the head of the household.
I do have to say this -- her children are some of the nicest kids I ever met. Huge contrast between the attitude of those kids and my other nieces and nephews -- but kids will be kids, they are all OK.
Guess I am trying to say I can accept anyone elses religion if they will accept my spirituality (I am not "religious).
Oh, but I with the religious right would change the world through prayers to their god and not go to the polls and vote.
I'm sorry, but it takes a special kind of fool to believe that the bible, largely passed along through oral history is literlly the word of God. It's bullshit sold to the rubes to keep them in line.
If asked, I would imagine God prefers 'Catch-22' to anything in the LB series.
looks like one of the kings or queens around here got pissed off!!!!!
Talkin' about action and the money trail will do it every time!
OT: Late but badass kittie blogging.
Fred Clark also believes that salvation comes through faith, not works.
Which makes him an enemy, not a friend.
Bigvic--what is astonishing is that this whole movement of biblical literalism is only about 200 years old.
looks like one of the kings or queens around here got pissed off!!!!!
Pardonnez-moi?
Care to unpack that there for us, son?
Kenosha Kid--that kitten is too cute for words. When will he be arriving at my home?
oh, and no sex in heaven.
and no animals, i never did quite get that.
no matter, i'm surely going to hell. where i'll be much happier i'm sure.
charley | Email | Homepage | 07.23.05 - 12:53 pm | #
I understand there's no beer in Heaven, either. No mention of the harder stuff.
Judgment is for Other People.
Judgement is for sodomites.
Full disclosure: I'm NOT a sodomite.
Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Flory--maybe we should keep our lack of sodomite-ness under wraps. At least till Eschacon
Sallyh, where do you live? I have five of these and you are welcome to them.
Bigvic--what is astonishing is that this whole movement of biblical literalism is only about 200 years old.
Sallyh
It's contemporaneous with, and an interesting side-effect of, literacy in general.
The Bible says, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
And once the mechanical process ( and now the digital) of printing came into being, the word "Word" took on a whole new meaning.
Is a moonie press really behind the LB series? I hadn't heard that.
Kenosha Kid--wish I could. I'm in LA, and Monsieur would be tres upset.
I work for an organization providing books on tape for the blind and dyslexic, so we have a lot of folks who are rather older... It is disturbing how popular the Left Behind books are...
rorschaach, that's so cool! My dad has macular degeneration, so he gets the NLS catalog, and I am always ordering reading material for him.
Do you have any input on the book selection? Because there are some books I really wanted to order for him that were not in their collection.
Is it permissible to run around bare-assed naked in Heaven?
let's hope not. jerry falwell...eww.
Jerry Falwell in heaven? Not likely.
Now bare-assed nekkid in hell?
Jerry, Karl, Rush, Ariel -- yeah that works.
Judgment is for Other People.
This is the mantra for the entire religious right, isn't it? They want laws to tell other people how to live their lives, school prayer is about forcing other people's kids to join in prayer. Republican Taliban in action...
I am only willing to go as far as Hoboken to deliver these kitties.
charley--not to mention that in hell, all your friends will be there.
what, the animals? all the animals are my freinds.
and the devil better damn sight have a cold heine wait'n for me when i arrive or there'll be real hell to pay.
You guys are getting me in biiiiiiig trouble with Mr. QL. I posited that since we had just put our 17 year old cat down, it would be nice to get a kitten. He wants no part of any more pets for a long time. Wants to travel without the hassle of making arrangements. He's tired of cleaning cat puke, and the pan. You know. But the kitties posted here are so cute and loveable. Oh, whatever will I do?
Karin--I'm glad to hear he's getting such things. The choice of books recorded is way out of my hands, alas.
OMG-Kenosha, I think I'm in love.
what is astonishing is that this whole movement of biblical literalism is only about 200 years old.
Sallyh
It makes my head hurt. Religious nuts have any number of ways to keep the masses under the thumb of "the Church." Fear of women's rights and fear of hell seem particularly effective tools. If folks can't look around and see the tragedy and futility of trying to take the world back 2000 years, I don't know what will.
Full disclosure: I'm NOT a sodomite.
flory, Contributing Editor
We are all sodomites.
Flory--maybe we should keep our lack of sodomite-ness under wraps. At least till Eschacon
Sallyh
Hmmmm....I'll take it under advisment.
I read this line from a poster from DK.
"Its about MY money and YOUR behavior."
sums up these rethuglicans very well me thinks.
But, Karin, where is he at and what does he want?
E-mail me.
The Gospel According To Matthew
-- 10:34
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword."
just sayin'
I want a burrow owl.
OK, QL gets one kittie. Sweet Sue gets another if she lives in or around NYC.
I have five of these and you are welcome to them.
The Kenosha Kid
Hey! Go read your comments. I just saved a kitten from a terrible death. Do I get one?
Jeff Gannon is the spokesmodel for Left Behind™-brand condoms.
looks like one of the kings or queens around here got pissed off!!!!!
OFF WISH HIS HEAD!
If someone were to ask me to sod, I might.
Matthew--I've always sort of taken that verse in the context of, I'm not here to make you content with the status quo, but to help you change it in your lives.
Everyone who comments gets a kittie, provided they live in public transportation distance of NYC.
1. Quilt Lady
2. Sweet Sue
3. Flory
4. ?
5. ?
We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you . . .
Do you think that I'm crazy?
Out of my mind?
Do you think that I creep in the night
And sleep in a phone booth?
Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show,
Think you better know
I'm another person
Do you think that my pants are too tight?
Do you think that I'm creepy?
Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show
Think you better know
I'm another person
Better look around before you say you don't care
Shut your fuckin' mouth about the length of my hair
How would you survive
If you were alive
Shitty little person?
We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you
We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you
Do you think that I love you . . .
Stupid & blind?
Do you think that I dream through the night
Of holding you near me?
Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show
Think you better know
I'm another person
WalterNeff--do you know if he's tried the product, or is he strictly bareback?
Unfortunately, in Ohio--and I do mean unfortunately. But thanks for the thought, Kenosha.
I want a burrow owl.
I knew you would get it.
Jerry Falwell in heaven? Not likely.
flory, Contributing Editor
no, let him have it. who want's that?
i realize there are some decent honorable christians who come to this board (in other words not whack job crazies) but i was pumped so full of this nonsense in my young 20s that i just reject it all out of hand.
the notion that there may be an 'Other' is appealing to me, and perhaps. but what i tell people when they ask me if i believe in God these days. "not like you do"
i just think of this downs syndrome girl i saw wearing a GOD DONT MAKE MISTAKES! tshirt
NTodd--are you bringing your Sparkle Pony to Eschacon?
Everyone who comments gets a kittie, provided they live in public transportation distance of NYC.
How far west does that subway thingie go again?
Uhm, no. Especially not while he's around. He's a real bully.
Total BS on "Even if we accept..." nonsense.
The Bible is wrong. It's just a collection of ancient patriarchal superstitions. Haven't you heard?
I refuse to grant the slightest tolerance to any superstition-beased social policy. That's it, no further argument.
Tell these fundies that gov't is not for them. Tell them to roll in the mud chanting Jeebus Jeebus Jeebus, and we secularists can handle the day-to-day
Kenosha Kid,
Beautiful, sweet kitten!
what is astonishing is that this whole movement of biblical literalism is only about 200 years old.
Sallyh
I can't remember the name of the book right now but It's contention was that the rise of end times was caused by the social upheaval of the Industrial Revolution.
Are the kitties - chinchilla?
NTodd--are you bringing your Sparkle Pony to Eschacon?
Just bringing me and my charm.
I'm good like that.
I'm willing to take a PATH train, so if you live in Jersey City, Hoboken, or Newark, I can get you one of these kittens.
n69n:
I think if there is a God, he/she/it/them takes an awful lot of coffee breaks.
(uh, oh - Gary Merrill has found himself in . . . The Twilight Zone)
It has gotten to this. I was describing my daughter's work with AIDS prevention in Africa to a new employee. I was looking forward to getting to know her since she is about my age and looks kind of interesting. She said "Well, your daughter is doing God's work." For me, that was the end of the discussion, and other than talk of the weather, I will probably never engage this woman in conversation again. Really, really sad.
Charley--The Jeebus nuts are always working the lines at the Mens Central Jail. When one of their minions came up to me for like the nth time and asked if I wanted to know Jesus, being hot, tired and irritated, I said, rather too loudly, I'd rather boink Satan in the parking lot, than you. For some reason, I got a round of applause.
Weird times.
I did this yesterday but if you didn't see Pinky, the unadoptable cat, here's a second chance
Crazy cat cementing his fate
Karin--I'm glad to hear he's getting such things. The choice of books recorded is way out of my hands, alas.
Oh, that's OK, there are lots of good books in the catalogue. But I had a few particular favorites to recommend. He also gets "The Nation" on a cassette tape every week, to keep up on current events.
It was funny, around the time the Iraq war started, I was lamenting to him that it was a shame he wasn't able to get the "real news" I was getting on the Internet. He only has network TV, no cable.
Anyway, he said "That's OK, I'm good at reading between the lines."
(he lived in Germany right up until May of 1939)
Just bringing me and my charm.
NTodd
I'm really tempted to say something like "NTodd's coming empty-handed" but that would be mean (not to mention what you folks will do with the double entendre).
So I'll restrain myself and not say anything.
BlakNo1--well, you do have a great cat. How's my boy Dudley today?
Just a reminder: not all Christians are judgmental, narrow-minded, and uncaring.
Hereare some who are trying to reclaim and reframe the conversation.
End of homily.
Hegemony.
And the struggle against it.
Choose your side!
More fun from the Book of Deuteronomy
21:18
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
I got news for the Left Behind fundies:
Jesus is not coming down here to wipe your ass and clean up the mess you made of God's creation. And he sure as hell isn't going to reward your fuck-ups with a Rapture ride to eternal paradise.
I gay-ron-tee it.
Oh, those Left Behind guys can go lick a donkey's balls.
NTodd--does this mean I have to bring the Sparkle Pony?
If the Fristians are correct, I guess I'll be meeting all of you at some future EschaHellicon. I'll bring the air conditioners and crushed ice - who will bring the marshmallows?
although I am a sodomite, I hope that when I am judged for it I am judged that I did it well
NTodd--I hope you'll bring a change of undies along with yourself and your charm...
I'm willing to take a PATH train, so if you live in Jersey City, Hoboken, or Newark, I can get you one of these kittens.
The Kenosha Kid
So these PATH trains of which you speak? They don't go to California?
No kitty for me.
Boo Hoo.
I'm willing to take a PATH train, so if you live in Jersey City, Hoboken, or Newark, I can get you one of these kittens.
I don't know what made me think the Kenosha Kid was in Wisconsin!
I did this yesterday but if you didn't see Pinky, the unadoptable cat, here's a second chance
Go Pinky!
LONDON - Police said Saturday that a man shot and killed on a subway car had nothing to do with an investigation into a series of bombing attacks Thursday on London's transit system.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20050...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Diane--we're speaking of a particular group of theofascists, not Christians at large.
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
You too can be a stubborn, rebellious glutton and drunkard and still be president of the United States!
flory - I appreciate your restraint.
Pinky NOOO!!
OK, SweetSue is out, QL is out, NTodd has big dogs so he is out, I guess I will be giving all these kittens to watertiger and steve simels, who live nearby and aren't present on this thread.
WalterNeff--I have the supplies all ready for EschaHellacon for s'mores.
i wanna go where the animals go.
wherever the animals are will be heaven for me.
I said, rather too loudly, I'd rather boink Satan in the parking lot, than you. For some reason, I got a round of applause.
Hee.
Atriots rule!!!
Can I just say that I love my bumper sticker, " In Case of the Rapture, Can I Have Your Car?"
Dudley is wedged between the couch and the wall in the living room. He likes sleeping there, despite the fact that 2 comfy chairs and a couch are within reach.
QL in NY: your daughter is a lot closer to "doing God's work" than these fake Christians we've got running around screeching about the Rapture.
I have no idea what this place is for
I don't care what kind of stupid stuff other people believe. What I believe sounds really stupid to most people. I just don't want their values shoved onto me, anymore than they'd want me forcing them to get naked and dance in the woods on a full moon.
sallyh - I was thinking of going commando. It has a lot of advantages.
NTodd--remember, Stef will receive a full report on your 'activities.'
gOD HATES fags.
bigvic | Email | 07.23.05 - 12:42 pm
Let me clarify, flesh out my previous statement, before someone sees it and thinks I've gone off the deep-end. (I havn't).
The part that Atrios posted is correct..well..about 90% correct (I really don't care what Paul said). And you guys are also correct. It's a HUGE problem. It's not a huge problem. It's THE problem. It's the seed that all other problems bloom from.
So he's right.
But...
The REASON why this problem exists, is that modern-day religion believes that your value as a human being is determined by what you believe. It's faith, not works. And this goes for most denomonations, most believers.
And because faith trumps works, then works really don't matter to these people. As long as you BELIEVE, then you're good as gold. You can be rightous as you want to be. It really is a peversion of the ideals of the religion....
And in a previous LB article, FC mentions that he actually agrees with that. So without realizing it, he's part of the problem, not part of the solution. Yes, he has different political, and even moral views than the LB group, but in the end they don't matter because the faith comes before any of that.
Can I just say that I love my bumper sticker, " In Case of the Rapture, Can I Have Your Car?"
rorschach
I once saw a Sylvia comic where a voice came from the cockpit of a plane: "In the event some of our first class passengers are Raptured in flight, no, the coach passengers cannot switch their seats. Thank you."
Hecate--the difference here is that a person's belief system should cause others no harm. Dancing naked under a full moon in the woods never hurt anyone (save for the mosquito bites).
flory - I appreciate your restraint.
NTodd
Anything for you darlin'. 
Karin: "You never did the Kenosha Kid"
Oh, that's OK, there are lots of good books in the catalogue. But I had a few particular favorites to recommend. He also gets "The Nation" on a cassette tape every week, to keep up on current events.
It was funny, around the time the Iraq war started, I was lamenting to him that it was a shame he wasn't able to get the "real news" I was getting on the Internet. He only has network TV, no cable.
Anyway, he said "That's OK, I'm good at reading between the lines."
(he lived in Germany right up until May of 1939)
Karin
Good for him! And I must confess that whenever people ask for magazines on tape, I alway say, "Like, The Nation"?
WalterNeff--I have the supplies all ready for EschaHellacon for s'mores.
Sallyh
I'll bring the champagne.
"Shellfish are and abomination. Homos are an abomination according to the Old Testiment. Lots of "Christians eat shrimp, so are they as evil as queers in the eyes of God?"
What's a lobster-loving homophobe to do?
Can I just say that I love my bumper sticker, " In Case of the Rapture, Can I Have Your Car?"
rorschach | Email | Homepage | 07.23.05 - 1:22 pm | #
You must like living on the edge. Better get bulletproof windows.
The popularity of the LB series is really significant evidence of the mass hypnosis that has taken hold in this country. Truly astounding and, needless to say, utterly frightening since, of course, they vote.
Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Not to mention throwing first stones. If this crew had been around, that adulterous woman would have been dead inside ten seconds, even and especially with what Jesus said about "being without sin."
-- Stu
Brian Schwatrz at 1:22 says "I have no idea what this place is for." I clicked the jackass' homepage to find what this place is for. It's to provide links for his graphic design company. Somebody zap this spamming parasite.
Hecate--the difference here is that a person's belief system should cause others no harm
A belief system also shouldn't be shoved in my face every time I turn around.
If I want to know about your Invisible Cloud Being - I'll fucking ask. M'kay?
Hecate, check the latest item on rorschach's blog. It's exactly what you were saying last night.
A group of anti-war senior citizens calling themselves the "Tucson Raging Grannies" say they want to enlist in the U.S. Army and go to Iraq so that their children and grandchildren can come home. Five members of the group -- which is associated with the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom -- are due in court Monday to face trespassing charges after trying to enlist at a military recruitment center last week.
The popularity of the LB series is really significant evidence of the mass hypnosis that has taken hold in this country.
Does anyone know if they're selling anywhere else? Or is this yet another example of American exceptionalism.
Can I just say that I love my bumper sticker, " In Case of the Rapture, Can I Have Your Car?"
rorschach | Email | Homepage | 07.23.05 - 1:22 pm | #
You must like living on the edge. Better get bulletproof windows.
Lime Rickey
Shit, I work on the capitol grounds and have had two of my "Bush is a PunkAss Chump" stickers
I wish the hell they would hurry up and leave the rest of us behind.
The trouble is, we've been there and done this many times over the years. The last time it was supposed to happen was October 23rd, 1997:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/gerg...ould_12-
31.html
.
ripped off in the parking complex.
Goo morning, all!
ripped off in the parking complex.
rorschach
Look on the bright side. Maybe someone *really* liked the sentiment.
Rorschach--Mademoiselle had her windows smashed out and her doors keyed for having anti-Bush stickers on her car.
The insurance company, a huge Republican donor, said that she shouldn't put bumper stickers on her car that inflame others. I said, so do you think people shouldn't sport Bush-Cheney stickers? She didn't know what to say.
D'oh! I'll have to come back after a virus scan. That good morning took about 3 minutes to post. Dammit!
Are there any rules on your site that prohibits discussion about chairman Dean. I dont like being banned for speaking the truth about him.
I guess Chairman Dean is the new "Great Helmsman" of the democratic party and all of his words are divine and true based on his mandate from heaven. No criticism of his words are permitted from mere mortals.
Why dont you deaniacs dig out your orange beanies and run another Perfect Storm campaign. Maybe you will be as successful as you were the last time you tried.
How can I be unbanned. Do I have to confess my eternal love for Chairman Dean and mend my errant ways.
Do you have any rules I can examine to help me change my conduct. Or do you just believe in censorship?
wd
Shit, I work on the capitol grounds and have had two of my "Bush is a PunkAss Chump" stickers
rorschach | Email | Homepage | 07.23.05 - 1:31 pm | #
Still, sometimes Jesus freaks and gun wackos are one and the same.
wd--if you were banned, it wasn't for criticizing Dr. Dean.
The raging grannies remind me of the Israeli women of Checkpoint Watch who intercede to stop troops abusing those passing through the checkpoints.
The REASON why this problem exists, is that modern-day religion believes that your value as a human being is determined by what you believe. It's faith, not works. And this goes for most denomonations, most believers.
Karmakin | Email | 07.23.05 - 1:24 pm
---------------
And this too is a relatively modern (and certainly non-biblical) tradition based more on Paul than on Jesus.
There is an interesting corollary, a political one. If one is a Liberal, is that sufficient? Shouldn't we be as active as possible, doing works that promote the welfare of those who need our help?
:::shrug:::
Just thinking out loud.
Mmm...I think wd wandered over here from DKos by mistake.
Homer: Well, I admit it looks bad, Flanders, but haven't you heard of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?
[Homer gets hit in the head with a rock.]
Todd: Got him, dad!
Or do you just believe in censorship?
there's less censorship here than at, oh, say, "Free"Republic.
try dissenting there and you'll be out on your virtual ass before you can hit the Return key.
The fundies deserve zero patience and zero civility. They think nothing of saying "You will burn in hell for eternity" and they think nothing of bombing anyone who might get in the way of W's greatness.
They care nothing for life, as their life will be in heaven. Nor do they care for the earth, since ditto.
Time to take the respectful kid gloves off and insult these assholes every time they dare spout their fundie idiocy.
I criticize a lot of prominent dems here often, I just don't make an annoying habit out of it.
How can I be unbanned.
you have to eat worms & pick all our noses.
why is wd whining?
wd,
I am among the most patient of those who frequent this board. I am getting annoyed with you. If you wish to remain, please refrain from the ad hominem attacks and instead argue cogently on behalf of the Green Party, particularly on the issues being discussed at the time.
That might get you further.
Just saying.
I'd rather boink Satan in the parking lot, than you. For some reason, I got a round of applause.
Weird times.
Sallyh
you guys is too fast for me, but glad i didn't miss that one.
i don't give a rats ass what anyone believes, but it should be left out of politics. and 25 years ago when i was a born again that was the prevailing notion amongst the groups i was around. now politics, in the groups themselves that was a different matter. it's also what helped me determine it was a load.
why is wd whining?
rorschach
Whining about being banned in a post that apparently....WASN'T BANNED!!
Wingnut logic.
Are there any rules on your site that prohibits discussion about chairman Dean. I dont like being banned for speaking the truth about him.
Nope. Go ahead and speak your "truth". Preferably when it's on topic.
why is wd whining?
wd = whining dumbass. Gott be true to him/herself.
Oh, and Rorschach?
Your current gravator reminds me of the ESSO tiger of years ago before ESSO became Standard Oil.
"Put a TIGER in your tank."
NTodd--
How would it be if asked you to comment to me on a draft of a paper on a local poet? Rather presumptuous, I would think.
The fundies deserve zero patience and zero civility.
I once had a Wiccan (mind you!) yell at me for "Christain bashing".
"Tolerant" is not a synonym for "gullible".
Do you have any rules I can examine to help me change my conduct. Or do you just believe in censorship?
We just belive in not being whiney assholes. But we'd never impose those beliefs on you. I am, however, going to start insisting that everyone learn to recite the Wiccan rede and demand that it be posted on all courthouse grounds. Otherwise, I will believe myself to be discriminated against.
i don't think complaining about howard dean could be problem. i've done that since i started coming to this blog.
horrible canidate, great chairman.
somebody has to stand up and say what's wrong with this country. it ain't always pretty, but i can not think of one of his "crazy" pronouncements that has been proven wrong.
Jeff Gannon is the spokesmodel for Left Behind™-brand condoms.
WalterNeff | Email | 07.23.05 - 1:08 pm
shouldn't that be "RIGHT Behind™" Brand?
I seriously think all those BA Christians hope to go to hell, secretly.
They know singing praises to Jesus while naked is not only boring but they have to listen to him lecture them for all eternity about the evils of the death penalty and torture. He will illustrate his homilies by selecting various members of the audience to reenact various executions and tortures.
He will even bring up devils from hell to do the dirty work. Everyone will watch and then Jesus will patiently explain to them why he is against the death penalty.
The Popes do NOT get the comfy chair torture.
How would it be if asked you to comment to me on a draft of a paper on a local poet? Rather presumptuous, I would think.
No prob.
I am, however, going to start insisting that everyone learn to recite the Wiccan rede and demand that it be posted on all courthouse grounds. Otherwise, I will believe myself to be discriminated against.
Hecate
And on all state and federal building grounds. It might save us all a lot of trouble.
What about Ba'al?
Sacrifices at all football games, for example?
"Judgement is for other people" neatly disposes of Mary Cheney, Jeff Gannon, the Mayor of Spokane Washington, Ricky Santorum and his "Down Low" boytoy, Miguel Estrada, etc., etc.
Just another version of IT'S OK IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN.
GODDAMNED HALOSCAN!!
gOD HATES fags.
bigvic | Email | 07.23.05 - 12:42 pm
Lucifer | Email | Homepage | 07.23.05 - 1:24 pm |
NON SERVIAM.
When are schools and government buildings going to put up the pictures of "Bob"?
I feel discriminated against.
My guess is that during the rapture they will make for easy target practice.
Pere Ubu - America has always been anti-Slack.
Fairly on topic, I saw an interesting book talk last night by a philosopher and expert on Gnosticism (generally, not just the Xian kind), Timothy Freke. He's got a new book out called The Laughing Jesus. Aside from espousing the increasingly common idea that all our religions as currently constituted have become so ossified as to be worse than useless, he went even further, declaring that there is virtually no historical evidence for pretty much anything at all in either Old or New Testaments, that Islam became corrupted even within Mohammed's lifetime, and that pretty much every major tenet of these three religious traditions derives from far older pagan traditions, in many cases more or less verbatim.
He also noted that the New Testament was put together under the auspices of the Holy Roman Empire, a thoroughly fascist state, to justify what they were already doing, just as the Old Testament canon had been by others, and the Quran would be later. So why some self-serving points are made a lot and others more universal seem to have been left out entirely is not very surprising.
His primary focus though was on the idea that there have always been those describing a transcendent truth beyond the limitations of word and dogma that is purely experiential. That is, in the common metaphor, all the various hands are pointing fingers at the same moon. And then others come along and become devotees of a particular hand and codify every line and freckle and eventually seek to kill anyone following a different hand. And eventually creak and groan and collapse under the weight of their own belief systems.
The bottom line for him is that although the experience is available to all, there never seems to be very many all that interested in seeking it out. Thus: lather, rinse, repeat.
Warning, long post:
Religion is more than belief and more than works, it is the careful putting together of the two. I go crazy when I hear the term "sodomite." I did a sermon about it and went back the rabbis who were spending centuries debating every line of the text. From the sermon and a long quote. If the idiots on the right really cared one whit, they would shut up and start being generous as a way of life, period. from sermon:
The mere mention of the word “Sodom” is used to conjure up images of the sinfulness of gay sex—at least that’s what the self-righteous religious right would have you think. Sodom and Gomorrah had to be destroyed by God because of the rampant sins of debauchery being committed. What did the rabbis have to say about this, we wondered in our study group. So we looked to the rabbis and what we found was not what we expected!
"Our masters taught: The people of Sodom were arrogant because of the bounty the Holy One had bestowed upon them. How is Sodom described in Scripture? "As for [Sodom's] earth, out of it cometh bread [in abundance]. The stones of it are the place of sapphires; and it hath dust of gold. Its paths no bird of prey knoweth, and no falcon's eye hath seen" (Job 28:6-7). There was not a path in Sodom that did not have the foliage of seven trees over it, each shading the one below it: foliage of the vine, fig, pomegranate, walnut and almond, apple, and peach, so that each path was fully sheltered. H. Levi said in the name of H. Yohanan: There is a species of falcon [so keensighted] that even when it soars eighteen mil in the sky, it can sight its food. Yet when that falcon stood upon Sodom's trees, it could not see the ground below because of the massive foliage of those trees.
More. When a man would go to a gardener and say to him, "Give me an issar's worth of greens," and the gardener would rinse the greens in water, he would shake down gold flakes out of the soil clinging to their roots.
So the [inhabitants of] Sodom said, "We live in peace and plenty-food can be got from our land, gold and silver can be mined from our land, precious stones and pearls can be obtained from our land. What need have we to look after wayfarers, who come to us only to deprive us? Come, let us see to it that the duty of entertaining foot travelers be forgotten in our land, as is said, "They who keep aloof from [wayfaring] men, turning away [in disdain] from them, had come to forget utterly [their duty toward] foot travelers" (Job 28:4).
So the Holy One said: Because of the bounty I bestowed upon you, you would make the very memory of wayfarers' feet forgotten in your midst-therefore I will cause the memory of [anything good in you] to be utterly forgotten in the world.
Rava expounded: What is meant by the verse "How long will ye imagine mischief against men, all of you plan murder by devices such as a leaning wall or a tottering
fence" (Ps. 62:4)? The verse intimates that the Sodomites would cast envious eyes upon a wealthy man. So they would seat him in the shadow of a leaning wall, push the wall down on him, and then seize his money.
What is meant by "In the dark they dig into houses, which they had marked for themselves in the daytime" (Job 24:16)? This verse likewise shows that the Sodomites used to cast envious eyes upon men of wealth. In order to mark the exact place where the wealthy men stored their valuables, Sodomites would deposit their precious scented oil (ostensibly for safekeeping) with the wealthy men, who would store this oil with their own valuables. Then later, in the dark of night, these Sodomites would come and, like dogs, sniff out the oil's whereabouts, dig there, and haul away the wealthy men's valuables.
[Their rules were calculated to do injury to the poor.] Thus they said, "He who has an ox is obliged to render one day's herding service; but he who has no ox has to give two day's service. . . . .
When a poor man came to the land of Sodom, each Sodomite would give him a denar with the Sodomite’s name inscribed on it, but not one of them would sell him a morsel of bread to eat. Eventually, when the poor man died of hunger, each Sodomite would come to claim his denar." 1
----
1 Bialik, Hayim Nahman, and Ravnitzky, Yehoshua Hana, Sefer HaAggadah, the Book of Legends, Legends from the Talmud and Midrash, (New York: Schocken Books:1992) pp. 36, 37.
..
and while the Paulist Fathers are known for some very fine film making, the Paulist creed is deeply unhinged and nasty and not much to do with what we used to call Christian dogma.
America has always been anti-Slack.
as the Pamphlet says, "No modern industrial death-culture can really afford a population of unpredictables!"
"Judgement is for other people" neatly disposes of Mary Cheney, Jeff Gannon, the Mayor of Spokane Washington, Ricky Santorum and his "Down Low" boytoy, Miguel Estrada, etc., etc.
Just another version of IT'S OK IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN.
David Ehrenstein
what would saul alinsky do?
Jeffco:
He also noted that the New Testament was put together under the auspices of the Holy Roman Empire, a thoroughly fascist state, to justify what they were already doing, just as the Old Testament canon had been by others, and the Quran would be later.
Did he really say the Holy Roman Empire? That was a medieval European state (think Charlemagne), not the "original" Roman Empire. The NT canon was finalized in about 397 AD, during the actual Roman empire.
And FWIW, all the books in the NT have been determined by modern researchers to have been written by about 100 AD, maybe 120 AD at the outside. It's just that for several centuries, different regional Christian groups were using slightly different collections of books. The council that the Emperor called to establish the NT canon chose which books to endorse from among all of those floating around at the time.
why is wd whining?
rorschach
It isn't easy, being Green...
Seriously, though, some Greens seem to have a problem with the fact that most of the Left gets along just fine without them. Kinda like the Republicans and the Libertarian Party. Many if not most Rs harbor Libertarian feelings to a degree, (hell, so do I)but look upon the LP, not entirely unreasonably, as besuited Anarchists.
To Green rank-and-filers (in the manner of followers everywhere) the rest of the Left might as well be the Right.
Hell is other people.
The bottom line for him is that although the experience is available to all, there never seems to be very many all that interested in seeking it out. Thus: lather, rinse, repeat.
JeffCO
The same can be said for Freke's analysis, basically.
A few new twists, or attempted twists, but still the same old tale.
Hey, as long as it ain't between two of the same sex, sodomy rocks!!!
To Green rank-and-filers (in the manner of followers everywhere) the rest of the Left might as well be the Right.
I concur there is no real big difference in America's two corporate parties. You have Rebuplicans and Rebublican-Lite(Democrats).
Vote Green and not Dean
Must be nice to have a built in group of brain dead fucks by the millions that will be your shitty literature and make you a billionaire.
Almost makes you want to become a preacher in the mold of Dobson and the like. Good money, all the chicken you can eat and occasional pussy.
My local CBS affiliate starts the day with Dr Dobsons horsheshit.
My local Wall Mart used to play the Nazi Dobson over their pa system.
Hey, as long as it ain't between two of the same sex, sodomy rocks!!!
Michigan | Email | Homepage | 07.23.05 - 3:07 pm | #
You like a woman with a strap-on Mich?
Whatever floats your boats I always say. Never knew what was up with St.Augustine - damn fool went bonkers on sodomites in his Confessions.
The average Left-wing Liberal is chickenshit but that has nothing to do with sexual orientation - most of 'em are heteros.
Re: Frekes - I'm sure he didn't say HRE since he identified the correct time period - just my sloppiness. And he did not suggest he was saying anything new - quite the opposite in fact. I don't really know anything about him - it just looked like an interesting talk - but he has several other books on similar topics.
He was taken to task by an audience member who loudly disputed the lack of historical evidence he was asserting (and a perceived attack on pretty much all religion). I'm in no position to judge the archeological record, and I haven't read his books, so I don't know how strongly he was trying to make that point. What I took from him was that it was not necessary for there to have been historical figures as described in holy books because the stories about them have an archetypal, mythological quality that far predate their historical epochs.
He wasn't actually dismissing the utility of religion - rather his issue is that treating it as mythological truth rather than Divine Revelation allows one to come to a personal awareness and experience - a gnosis if you prefer - that the over-reliance on text tends to preclude.
Not to mention the problem that the moment people declare this set of words to be holy and everything else not they tend to feel justified doing whatever the hell they want.
And you, dw, and the greens, have less than 5% of the vote. So your main job is to insure that the repigs, not the repigs-lite, stay in power so they may consolidate and destroy any chance of freedom and democracy, as they are now doing. Good thinking.
I e-mailed the LaHayes and other members of the Corporation of Revelations and asked them why they preach so heavily about Revelations (which, after all, was a dream of the apostle John) and Old Testament prophets to promote their version of the End Times when Christ himself addresses the issue more than once in the New Testament. Christ reveals that his return and the Apocalyptic times would be much sooner than this continuing carrot being dangled in front of Christians about some nebulous future time.
In Matthew 16, Christ said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct. AMEN, I SAY TO YOU, THERE ARE SOME STANDING HERE WHO WILL NOT TASTE DEATH UNTIL THEY SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN HIS KINGDOM."
In Matthew 24, Christ is asked about the tribulations by his disciples and Jesus points to the Temple in Jerusalem and says, "You see all these things, do you not? Amen, I say to you, there will not be left here a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down." As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, "Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Christ describes the terrible times ahead and says, "In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. AMEN, I SAY TO YOU, THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS AWAY UNTIL ALL THESE THINGS HAVE TAKEN PLACE. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."
I theorize that Christ was referencing the Romans attack on Jerusalem in the year 70 AD when they destroyed the Temple and destroyed the Ark of the Covenant and the Jews were banned from living in Jerusalem and Judea.
Falwell naked! Eeeeew.
It is always enlightening to see that the LB people are as ignorant of Christianity as the majority of atheists, and less I be remiss, most Christians.
No wonder the worlds so screwed. I think Billmon may be right, people are either stupid or ignorant, which produces the same results. I think Bill proves that given enough time evolutionists may finally catch up to what the Bible actually has been saying all this time. People don't have a clue what their doing.
in my mind's eye, i see a mob of Christian Literalists storming a Red Lobster, and angrily stoning to death anyone who is eating shellfish and wearing a crucifix...
the fundies are so hypocritical and inconsistent in their application of biblical law that eventually they'll do themselves in...it's just a matter of having patience and enough tequilla
Down at the bottom again......sigh...
Just think...when the rapture comes we get all their stuff!! Woo-hoo!!!
to NotEZ--Christians who think evolutionists will catch up to what the Bible says may be true but not in the way Christians would hope. The religious need to be led like sheep to the truth and below is perhaps a start:
______________
The story of creation had been passed down for untold generations before Moses wrote it down. Before the invention of writing human stories and concepts were passed down orally. For example: Native Americans and Africans (remember "Roots?")have passed stories down for several Millennia.
If humanity could be seen as a single entity then when the creation story started, in essence, the human species was comparable to a small child. Ask a three or year old about our adult construct of time. The child has a very limited concept of time. In turn, the very young human species also had a limited concept of time.
Perhaps an understaning that the first concept of time for our species
would have been a day--meaning sunset to sunset or sunrise to sunrise. For a modern 3-4 year old human child a day seems like an very long period of time. The same could be said for our early ancestors who wondered about the earth, sky, sun, and stars and the brightest of the bunch explained how it all happened.
Since the longest concept of time would have been a day that seemed to be nearly an eternity to the early humans as it does with a very young modern child, perhaps the story of creation could be understood in this way.
Could this be how the story of creation began as first told by our very young human ancestors? Could it have been how they tried to explain the world using their limited knowledge and concept of time?
anyways...Hope this is clearer than mud and it is only IMHO
I have a question about the Left Behind cosmology. During the Rapture all children under 12 are taken up. What happens to children born after that? Are the remaining adults all sterile? Or are new children condemned to suffer with us sinners because they were born too late? Maybe they are zapped up right upon birth? Or maybe (according to stem cell opponents) at the moment of union between sperm and egg?
Here's my opinion - I think Jesus was gay. In the Greek version of John's Gospel, the word used is agapé - really big love - and not amartia - normal love. John's doxographer wanted to get across the idea that Jesus REALLY prefered John to the others. Christ was gay - but I don't think he was big on expressing his sexuality - wasn't his thang.
regardless of what anyone who writes fictional novels about the end of the world thinks (as well as people who review those books), there are two main rules for christians..
love god with all your heart, soul and mind.
love your neighbor as yourself.
Matthew 22:37,39
plain and simple. there is no room for hatred or judgement. none.
anyone who wants to promote any kind of bigotry within that context is not practicing the commandments of jesus.
a favorite verse that runs counter to this instinct of distancing oneself and making enemy of "the other":
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
inherent within this is the message that "there is neither heterosexual nor homosexual..."
or in other words:
jesus: i'm a uniter, not a divider.
I'd rather live next to a gay couple than bible thumping haters any day.
I've always loved that bumper sticker that says:
"After the Rapture, Can I have you car?"
YOUR car
"The average Left-wing Liberal is chickenshit"
The troll says from the safety of his keyboard.
Ever see Tim LaHaye's wife?
The winner who founded Concerned Women of America?
She looks like a fucked out old hooker. Wears as much makeup as Dr. Laura does.
I wish these people would hurry up and leave, already.
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