I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Fresh thread!!
Y'all come over and see my guest post on maximum wage...I swear I am not a socialist. Just looking for feedback and blog-whoring.
http://thinkingwomanslife.blogspot.com/2005/07/
sinegal-of-hope.html
He must be guilty of something?
Un.
Fucking.
Believable.
My guess is Mr. Gibson was composing that piece with one hand, if y'know what I mean.
If it looks like a fascist and sounds like a fascist and celebrates the Manly Powerful Use of Force like a fascist...
Let's hear Gibson backpedal out of this one. It'll be a textbook classic.
Right guy-Wrong guy who cares? As long as they are brown then everything is peachy
Shorter Gibson: Good form old boy to put some English on those bullets. Talley Ho. We're off to hunt some terrorist foxes.
Oh.. they have cameras in the loo too, I have seen the website!!
And Tom Friedman cries out to shed light on hate speech?
How about turning those klieg lights on our own fucking press?
(wrote a letter this morning to the NYT about Tancredo's comments)
Gibson will be here all week, folks. Try the veal and don't forget to tip the waitstaff.
I'm really glad that I have no freakin' idea who John Gibson is.
.. and after a statement like that I'd sure like to keep it that way.
What a putz.
Besides if they had let that guy live, he might some day listen to the wrong sermon in a mosque and could think about considering becoming a suibomber
It's all a carefully manicured persona. Be obnoxious, divisive vicious then occasionally be polite. That way the morons who watch FOXNews will know you're like them but "political corrrectness" requires you be be "fair and balanced".
Can't wait till Bill Hemmer takes on this type of bluster.
10,000 quatloos says John Gibson sits in his office at Faux News with WWII model airplanes making machine gun and dive bomber noises.
Now to mow the landlord's back 40... hothothot.
.
What a tragedy and waste.
And I really feel bad for the poor guy who got shot by the Brits, too.
10,000 quatloos says John Gibson sits in his office at Faux News with WWII model airplanes making machine gun and dive bomber noises.
Linc Case
You forgot the leather cap and goggles.
hmmm theres at least one junior nazi officer in every nazi flick ever made that looks like john gibson. hes usually kissing the doughy butt of the nazi that looks like karl rove. just saying.
Eh... didn't he jump the turnstile and start running? Gibson sounds like a douche, but I can't blame the bobbies for this one.
But I hate punchlines like that.
"Five in the noggin is fine."
The height of intellectualism.
You forgot the leather cap and goggles.
You KNOW this guy is a Plushie.
You just KNOW it.
I say the Brits acted correctly and it was a tragedy. It would have been a tragedy of sorts if the guy was wearing a bomb.
The ugly American, celebrated by Fox.
Eh... didn't he jump the turnstile and start running?
Reason enough to kill someone, I guess. /sarcasm
hmmm theres at least one junior nazi officer in every nazi flick ever made that looks like john gibson.
Yeah at at the end of the movie when his cowardly buddies surrender, he shoots himself in the head.
So. Turns out the dead guy was entirely unconnected to the bombings. There will be consequences, I suppose.
But still. The marksmanship of the Brits - you have to admire it. Five in the noggin! Incredible accuracy, folks! A thing of beauty! And I didn't even think the limeys had guns.
Yes, five in the noggin is A-OK with me. You have to fight barbarism with barbarism. Sometimes the wrong noggin gets pierced. But if five in an innocent noggin will make just one terrorist think twice, I'm all for it.
"Don't complain that sounds barbaric. We're fighting barbaric."
Ah, a perennial classic. Couldn't enter the Gestapo if you didn't accept that one. Good times.
I studied all the news and eyewitness reports carefully. What I emerged with was a typical story in the annals of cops-shooting-innocents. Imagine it's you. Some in street clothes comes up to you with guns drawn. You do what any sane person would do: you run.
Predictable results.
But the law-and-order types, the very ones who claim to be about the right to self defense, will always maintain that you should have known as if by magic that the guys who looked like they were about to shoot you were cops.
Gibson continues to be a sick fuck. Wonder if he'll express anything resembling sorrow and outrage for the man if he turns out to be innocent (which he probably was)? Nahh..
OT - Thanks for the kitties yestersday, everyone! I won't be posting or lurking much this weekend, as it's my 1st anniversary. Don't have too much fun without me 
Eh... didn't he jump the turnstile and start running?
You ever ride in NYC subways?
That would be a whole lotta dead people.
Wouldn't it have been smarter to get the guy alive so they could interrogate him?
When I heard they shot the guy AFTER he had tripped and fallen, I thought "grrrreaaat... now the London police are taking their cues from Rudy Giuliani's tactics."
The Brits did not need to bullshit the public. They screwed up and admitted it.
They did not lie to the public.
How unusual.
Charlotte Smith: congrats for your anniversary!
You KNOW this guy is a Plushie.
Manly masculine men like that wouldn't be boinking no stuffed animals.
They'd be out in the clean forest air blowing away animals, hikers, beer cans, squirrels, trees, birds, and anything else that moved. Then back home for a cold shower and a quick wank to their DVD of "The Green Berets".
10,000 quatloos says John Gibson sits in his office at Faux News with WWII model airplanes making machine gun and dive bomber noises.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
But if five in an innocent noggin will make just one terrorist think twice, I'm all for it.
As a deterrent, police threatening suicide bombers with death...??? Let me think about that for a while.
...I have no words. The juxtaposition of Gibson's nauseating glee and Atrios' "punch line"...just makes me feel like throwing up.
well, last nite i repeated the vest meme. i guess it got implanted. thought i heard it on olberman.
at any rate this does not bode well.
seriously, i can't understand why some of these asshats should not be arrested for hate speech.
then again when you have an administration that defends torture policy i guess anything goes.
Let's see...
He was wearing a bulky, heavy coat on a hot summer day. He was being trailed after leaving a house under surveillance because of its connection to the 7/7 bombings. He refused to stop when called upon to do so. He ran into a subway station, vaulted over the turnstile, entered a car and tried to grab a hostage. All this after eight subway bombings (four successful) by middle eastern/south asian men.
...If I were a London cop I wouldn't think twice. The guy's dead.
Well, you can't spell "not guilty" without "guilty." Close enough.
Congrats, Charlotte! Get out of here and get busy... 
For Gibson, like all the wingnuts, it's about acting tough, not about doing anything to actually solve a problem.
Everything for them is about not getting called gay, I'm convinced of that...
This is what happens when you mix hysteria with a brown man racing to catch a subway car.
As far as the crime of his jumping the turnstile, wonder how long 'til that story gets backtracked.
There's an excellent commentary in The Times (UK) today about how most of what the Brit. gov't and media keeps reporting in the initial stages of these panic headlines turns out to be utterly bogus...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
art...1704834,00.html
Shoot first, ask questions later.
If I were a London cop I wouldn't think twice. The guy's dead.
Does that make Gibson a cool guy?
These yahoos at Fox are the kind of people Charles Manson would back away slowly from.
"Get him away from me... he's CRAZY!"
These London cops remind me of some of the other great tackle and exucute teams of the past like Schultz and Grüber; and the Soviet greats, Radoslav and Baturin.
They did not lie to the public
Yea RJJ were Americans we are not used to that kind of press release from any accountable office. It has to be flogged out in the open until it is old news when the truth hits.
Congratulations Charlotte, and many more!
I'm kinda surprised that there's still any noggin left to shoot after the first 2-3 shots...
Anyway, I read that John Gibson bit as "Why don't *we* have cool death squads that shoot people in the head five times if they look suspicious? Waaaahhh!!!"
....If I were a London cop I wouldn't think twice. The guy's dead.
Yeah, don't bother trying to immobilize the guy after he's fallen down. Just pump 5 bullets into his skull.
When I heard they shot the guy AFTER he had tripped and fallen, I thought "grrrreaaat... now the London police are taking their cues from Rudy Giuliani's tactics."
Yes, and what I thought of when I first heard this was the Amadou Diallo case and Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink". The officer may not have even realized he was firing five shots. Yet another case in which the law enforcement establishment ignores solid experiment psychological findings (the other prevalent one being Zimbardo's work on prisoner abuse). But everyone instead listens to the hooting noises of Giuliani and Gibson. Can't wait to hear what that drug-addled pustule, Limbaugh, has to say.
...If I were a London cop I wouldn't think twice. The guy's dead.
if you were a London cop or an American cop, your duty would be to arrest those suspected of criminal behavior, not act as judge, jury and executioner.
You would be protecting the public far more by getting the guy alive and interrogating him so that you could find his associates (if in fact he was connected to terrorist plots).
On the other hand, if you simply want to get your rocks off by killing people, you're just a vigilante.
Now, please... go fuck yourself.
Charlotte,
May you and Mr. Smith enjoy many more!
What was wrong with it? I thought it was pretty cool.
spinoza,
thought the same thing - "Blink".
He was wearing a bulky, heavy coat on a hot summer day.
I had a freind who insisted on wearing a parka year-round.
entered a car and tried to grab a hostage.
citation for that, please?
Who the Cheney was saying that "the Brits weren't making the right noises about fighting terror"? Anyone who made such an asshole comment deserves "five in the noggin."
THIS TIME WITH FEELING, BRITS! You were just bombed, let's make some NOOOOOOOISE! Now, just the ladies ... I can't hear you!
Oh, and from the linked story:
"1: Witnesses report seeing up to 20 plain clothes police officers chase a man into Stockwell Tube station from the street
2: One person says the man vaulted the automatic ticket barriers as he made his way to the platforms"
If he did not speak English very well and could not understand that the plainclothes men were police officers, from his perspective he was being chased by a gang of strange people, and his turnstile-jumping becomes more understandable.
Wouldn't it have been smarter to get the guy alive so they could interrogate him?
Yah, my take on it was that in a civilized democracy like the US, we would have captured him alive and then imprisoned him in Gitmo his entire life without legal recourse.
But hey, those British, they're just out of control.
He was wearing a bulky, heavy coat on a hot summer day. He was being trailed after leaving a house under surveillance because of its connection to the 7/7 bombings. He refused to stop when called upon to do so. He ran into a subway station, vaulted over the turnstile, entered a car and tried to grab a hostage. All this after eight subway bombings (four successful) by middle eastern/south asian men.
How much of this will turn out to be true after the investigation..very little I'll bet.
Kinda like Jessica Lynch firing her weapon until she ran out of bullets.
Todd Beamer, "Let's roll" turned out to be BS as well according to 9/11 commission.
Saddam Hussein had WMDs.
ZZZzzzz...
>If I were a London cop I wouldn't think twice
Thank goodness, most London cops aren't you.
Anyway, I read that John Gibson bit as "Why don't *we* have cool death squads that shoot people in the head five times if they look suspicious? Waaaahhh!!!"
Yeah, that's how I took it. Damn, the Brits and Israelis are fucking BADASSES! And I want a jauty beret! What, I can't wear that if I'm going to be a plainclothes cop? Fuck that, just gimme the gun!
I'm looking forward to seeing a tackle and execute team named Gibson and O'Reilly. Wouldn't that be cool. Especially if O'Reilly was allowed to eat his kills.
Chuck and those who would defend the cops: explain why the shot was necessary after he was subdued? Why immobilizing his hands was not sufficient? And tell me what you would do if a mysterious figure pulled a gun on you.
YIKES! Should have read the punchline before that last post.
I wondered whether this was another case of suicide-by-cop, London edition, but I haven't heard anything to support that.
Gibson is an exceedingly poor example of whatever the hell he is, or a really good one. Didn't he start out on CNN too? I remember finding him odious and unwatchable years ago, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't on Fox.
You know, side affect of the war on terrorism is that it sure makes it a lot easier spot racist scum parading around like they are great patriots, even as they excuse the traitorous behavior of most of the President's men.
And if it turns out ultimately that he had nothing to do with anything, no doubt there will be hell to pay
You left out the part where Gibson quietly chuckles and thinks to himself, but I won't be the bastard paying for screw up so I can say whatever the hell I want. It's a dirty job I have, but someones gotta do it.
If I were a London cop I wouldn't think twice
HEEEEEE-YAWH! 'Cause y'see only manly men of action can fight the new war against EVIL! Gotta shoot first 'cause they're all barbarians, y'know. I hears them Islamofascists can set off their suicider bombs even AFTER they're dead!
Hmm, let's see -- wearing a parka during summer is a crime now? Then I guess we better start rounding up schizophrenics and shooting them too, 'cos there's tens of bloody thousands of 'em in New York and London, and that's exactly what they do, wear parks in summer.
I sure wouldn't like to go hunting with those guys.
God I wish ER doctors operated the same way. In the midst of a crisis, forget any semblance of rules or things you learned in in medical school. Just start cutting. I mean, it's fine to use Gray's Anatomy when things are routine. But in a pinch you can't damn a surgeon for accidentally sewing the guy's leg on backwards.
In 2003-4, the total number of shots fired by Met officers was... 8. As a friend commented yesterday, that's fewer than in many single episodes of US cop shows.
This doesn't help at all. Wearing a puffa jacket in the summer with, god knows, perhaps a headphone cord trailing down... while Asian = target? That's what the real bombers want. Something like this demolishes years of community policing.
I'd want to know who the police shooters were. SO19, probably, which is the specialist firearms unit rather than regular Met officers with firearms licensing. Almost always, apart from guard duty or airport security, you need express authorisation from the chief constable in order to carry a gun.
And I want to see some high-ups taking steps to show genuine fucking remorse.
Now, just the ladies ... I can't hear you!
"All you Beyonces and Lucy Lius..."
Shake it, shake it, shake it...
Chuck and those who would defend the cops: explain why the shot was necessary after he was subdued? Why immobilizing his hands was not sufficient?
The defense is already being bantered that if he was wearing explosives, only shots to the head would kill him instantly before he could detonate them....that's the defense to come. Guaranteed!
exactly what the terorists want us to do. become so paranoid out of fear that we start turning on each other, and violence and chaos runs through the streets.
if this sort of stuff continues, if mosques continue to be vandalized, muslims viewed with suspicion, innocent people beaten or shot dead because they were the wrong color or looked suspicious, if we keep giving up our civil liberties for some percieved increase in safety, then it's sad to say, but the terrorists will have won.
Read it:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
art...1704834,00.html
Read it:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
art...1704834,00.html
READ IT!!!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
art...1704834,00.html
Thank you.
"You would be protecting the public far more by getting the guy alive and interrogating him so that you could find his associates (if in fact he was connected to terrorist plots).
On the other hand, if you simply want to get your rocks off by killing people, you're just a vigilante."
You can't arrest suicide bombers! You can't capture them and interrogate them! The normal rules don't apply here, and it sucks for everyone involved.
Do you really think those cops are going to go home and wank off because they were happy to kill a brown person? Brag about it to their buddies at the pub? Take pictures of themselves with the body? They're still probably shaking from the fear of the moment, sick with regret and fear for killing an innocent man. They aren't monsters, they're just humans doing what humans would do in a godawful situation like that.
But in a pinch you can't damn a surgeon for accidentally sewing the guy's leg on backwards.
"If it isn't my old friend, Mr. McClegg..."
Oh, and you just know that Gibson masturbates to the photos in Soldier of Fortune magazine. The sick fuck.
I posted a thread about the fact that the poor schmuck who got killed didn't have a bomb and wasn't one of the bombers at Daily Kos.
I got disgusted by the masturbating of the so-called progressives over there who defended the London police for their actions. Remember, London police don't use guns. Secondly, they changed the shoot to kill policy without telling anybody. It's a secret policy!!
And, this poor schmuck, who probably has spent 2 weeks in the company of people who don't speak Urdu, gets told to stop by police who usually don't wear guns. He makes a run for it, which many people who are afraid of cops will. And, he pays for it with his life.
And all the Kossians can do is cheer and sympathise with the poor cops!!!
That's the stae of progressive thinking in the good old USA.
sometimes i get too depressed to be properly pissed off.
I can't wait for the capture of the bomber and during interrogation reveal the evil plot...
BOMBER: "We received the bombs and a suitcase full of cash, along with our orders from this fat, balding white guy with glasses.." (Looks at picture of KKKarl Rove) "Yeah, that's him. That's they guy who gave us the cash."
Yah, my take on it was that in a civilized democracy like the US, we would have captured him alive and then imprisoned him in Gitmo his entire life without legal recourse.
Yeah.
I really don't want cops acting like judge, Cheney, and executioner.
with, god knows, perhaps a headphone cord trailing down... while Asian = target?
pshitt, as if the muggers weren't bad enough; now the police'll shoot you for your IPod.
"Wall I saw all them wires and y'know it just HADDA be some kinda bomb type thing... just hadda shoot!"
This doesn't help at all. Wearing a puffa jacket in the summer with, god knows, perhaps a headphone cord trailing down... while Asian = target? That's what the real bombers want. Something like this demolishes years of community policing.
Exactly. If terrorists attacks didn't lead to hysteria and overreacting, no-one would use them as a tactic.
NTodd-I must be tired. I read your new extended moniker as "Walking Sodomite", and thought, "How the hell does one do that?"
Then I guess we better start rounding up schizophrenics and shooting them too,
Happened in Philly last week. Naked possibly psychotic homeless guy grabbed a police car and was shot by cop and later died.
Eh... didn't he jump the turnstile and start running? Gibson sounds like a douche, but I can't blame the bobbies for this one.
yeah, we should shoot everyone who runs away from twenty people chasing them. how do you know they're cops if they're in plainclothes?
yah, dissenter makes a very good point. In a country where you don't expect cops to have guns, running from them is potentially a perfectly rational thing to do (though, of course, add in the plain clothes element and who knows what the guy was thinking).
The defense is already being bantered that if he was wearing explosives, only shots to the head would kill him instantly before he could detonate them....that's the defense to come. Guaranteed!
I'm sure it is, but if he had a detonator, why wouldn't he have triggered it *before* the cops got to him?
"Five in the noggin" for the Gibson girl. Keep America free - eliminate a fascist today.
What a nut, Gibson loves “the way the Brits have 10 million cameras sticking up the nose of every citizen no matter where they are, except in the loo.” Frickin' Orwellian all that, no thanks!
It's no brainer you chickenshit liberals are aghast only at the summary shooting of the "five noggin fella" - until we get a further hold of all the circumstances (we never will), just let this story rest.
You're all such a lovely portrait of pusillanimous piety.
Everything for them is about not getting called gay, I'm convinced of that...
Thersites
And exhibiting intense man-love for Marion Morrison.
Do you really think those cops are going to go home and wank off because they were happy to kill a brown person? Brag about it to their buddies at the pub? Take pictures of themselves with the body?
No, that's what military police in Iraq do.
"I love the way the Brits have 10 million cameras sticking up the nose of every citizen no matter where they are, except in the loo."
Please let me in on the secret--why would anybody love this? The only way I would love it would be if they are stuck up his whatsis.
if this sort of stuff continues, if mosques continue to be vandalized, muslims viewed with suspicion, innocent people beaten or shot dead because they were the wrong color or looked suspicious, if we keep giving up our civil liberties for some percieved increase in safety, then it's sad to say, but the terrorists will have won.
I hate to break it to you, but the terrorists have already won. Nov. 2004 is proof.
When I heard they shot the guy AFTER he had tripped and fallen
That's going to be something for the CC cameras and inquiry to determine. You can't always trust eye-witness reports because you hear the gunshot a split-second after it does its damage.
Ugh. Yes, the officers involved are going to be in counselling after this, as standard practice. And probably won't touch a gun again.
The BBC has a brief description of the shooting policy here.
It's no brainer you chickenshit liberals are aghast only at the summary shooting of the "five noggin fella"
what part of "innocent man" do we have trouble understanding, here?
The guy was probably mentally ill judging from the way he was dressed and his reaction to being chased by half the cops in London. Can't imagine why anybody would be scared.
Jimmy Jim Jim Billy Joe Bob jr -- And here's something else I don't get. Reports say the bombs that didn't go off the other day are like the ones that did on the 7th -- which either had or didn't have timers and made from military grade explosive -- or not.
NTodd-I must be tired. I read your new extended moniker as "Walking Sodomite", and thought, "How the hell does one do that?
Just don't ask him to chew gum.
What the fuck are you doing running around in a goddamn parka in the subway in summer? That's acting suspicious especially after the recent attacks. Wear a goddamn t-shirt. Am I getting this right? Just looks like more 'thinning the herd' to me.
Everything for them is about not getting called gay, I'm convinced of that...
What do you mean by that? What are you insinuating.
I'm married and I enjoy, bitching about the French, beating up people, and shooting things, so you can go to hell, you rotten traitorous bastard.
Just don't ask him to chew gum.
Do you mean "Gumby"?
/duck
Just looks like more 'thinning the herd' to me.
Ô¿Ô
Cool! Just as long as your ID says "Official Herd Thinner" and not "Herd".
The guajolote con chile verde is simmering nicely, for enchiladas; the carne adovada is marinating in salsa colorado in the ice box, the calabacitas is in the oven, along with Arthur's plain chicken and my Dijon turkey for turkey salad later on.
So, what'd I miss?
So. Is anyone here even remotely surprised that this guy turned out to be completely innocent?
Humph - posted this below but all the kewl kids had already left.
OT
Steve:
Kent will be in town mid-August. WT is putting together a drinky, maybe dinner thingy. I was just getting my butt in gear to organize when low and behold, she was right on it. She's a Leo you know.
QL in NY | 07.23.05 - 3:54 pm | #
On topic
Remember about ten years ago, a young girl 14 or 15 snuck out of her house to meet the landscaper who raped and killed her. The papers were full of how her parents should have controlled her, and she never should have snuck out in the first place yada,yada, yade. That's what this reminds me of. Refusing to stop for unidentified strangers who are holding guns on you, then jumping a turnstile so you are not slowed down when running for your life, hardly deserves the death penalty.
Most salient part of the article:
He said he expected officers to face criminal charges, and other officers could even refuse to carry weapons.
What happened after Amadou or Louima. Blue wall of silence with the farking mayor defending the offending officers.
In a country where you don't expect cops to have guns, running from them is potentially a perfectly rational thing to do
British police rules of engagement require officers to declare that they're armed and 'give sufficient time for warnings to be observed' unless extreme circumstances make that unfeasible. That link I posted upthread provides more details.
The Police Complaints Authority will have already opened a file on this one.
What the fuck are you doing running around in a goddamn parka in the subway in summer? That's acting suspicious especially after the recent attacks. Wear a goddamn t-shirt. Am I getting this right? Just looks like more 'thinning the herd' to me
Yeah, we should execute those who don't conform to accepted norms.
Every time there's been a new weapon, at least some people say "this will make war unthinkable". It hasn't so far.
Maybe terrorism will finally be the "ultimate weapon" to do this.
Keep the politicians and citizens who vote for them shaking in their boots.
When people are finally thinking that their personal and goverments behavior has consequences, peacemaking might have a chance for once.
ot--when are the rest of the abu ghraib photos being released? I wonder how many of the pusbags will defend abusing an 8 year old girl.
That's going to be something for the CC cameras and inquiry to determine.
I'm going to be skeptical of the official videotape if there is a dancing baby in the background.
Wait, now if we understand the cops' position, we're not progressive? Jesus, I can't win for losing these days.
And if it turns out ultimately that he had nothing to do with anything, no doubt there will be hell to pay. But the police say he was linked to the terror probe, so let's wait and see.
and of course if he WAS innocent of anything Gibson and his ilk will just shrug their shoulders, mutter something about "one less brown person" and go on to the next Manly Display of Power And Might.
What was all that the Repugs were blathering about a while back about "personal responsibility" and "words mean things"?
What the fuck are you doing running around in the subway in a parka these days? Wear a goddamn close fitting t-shirt. That's what I would do and I wouldn't run off but lie on the ground if police came up on me.
What is this, another country or something?!
John O'Connor, former commander of the Met Police, told the BBC the consequences of the shooting were likely to be "quite horrendous".
He said he expected officers to face criminal charges, and other officers could even refuse to carry weapons.
I'm married and I enjoy, bitching about the French, beating up people, and shooting things, so you can go to hell, you rotten traitorous bastard.
All those things are more fun when you're naked.
You can't arrest suicide bombers! You can't capture them and interrogate them!
If you manage to pin the bomber's arms down and get them in a position where the person cannot detonate the explosives, you can.
Yeah, we should execute those who don't conform to accepted norms.
That's what I have been saying for years.
-Bizarro World Thomas Szasz
oh oh -- I see atrios is doing the "thought control" thing again. Dare to think for yourself and talk about true liberal ideas at your own risk!
Is anyone here even remotely surprised that this guy turned out to be completely innocent?
I am surprised because I thought they would be more apt to get it right than the buncha trigger-happy dudes we've got running around here.
Their *new* philosphy sure came back to bite them in the ass big time.
Rock and a hard spot, really. Let's think about the situation from the point of view of the man on the ground.
Last week we had these really nasty bombs. This week we had these bombs that weren't nasty solely because the detonators weren't set correctly. Today, I see a gentleman in a heavy coat (remember, all, it's the height of summer in the UK) jump a turnstile and go running for the tubes, refusing to stop when yelled at by you and your fellow officers.
You charge him and tackle him, but you're still in the midst of a large crowd. If he's a bomber then he can still kill lots and lots of people by popping the bomb.
Now with that situation in mind, two very important questions must be answered:
1) How do you reliably stop him before he pulls the trigger?
2) Assuming the only solution you can find is to kill him, how do you give him the opportunity to surrender without simultaneously giving him the opportunity to pull the trigger?
Remember that you do not have time. You have a man in heavy coat who jumped turnstiles and refused to stop.
FWIW, let me ask it as a hypothetical. What if what the witnesses were saying was: The man jumped the turnstiles, he was tackled, and while police with guns were standing near him demanding his surrender his bomb went off. Or perhaps the intermediate hypothetical: Man jumped, tackled, shot, and it turned out that beneath his coat was a suicide bomb.
I'm afraid I can't accept the simple condemnation I'm seeing here. Not for this circumstance, regretful as it is. Not unless someone can present a solution that would have prevented multiple deaths if the individual HAD been a bomber.
Yeah, we should execute those who don't conform to accepted norms.
Christ, General, don't give 'em any ideas!
Please tell me that's some sick parody. Please.
General, your book is coming--eventually. Been meaning to get to the post office, then my car died.
Seeing your new command vehicle, I'm guessing you understand.
You're just full of Christian understanding.
And you look reeeeeal cute in that robe, big fella...
C'meer.
I vaguely remember back in the 60's there was an organization for unhinged, McCarthy-ite wingnuts called the John Birch Society. Proper Republicans considered Birchers to be extremist wackos on a par with Ku Kluxers or American Nazis.
How times have changed! Nowadays, the Birchers' spiritual descendents have their own teevee network, and they in fact more or less define the criteria of what qualifies as a proper Republican.
I'm still trying to figure out how the fuck things went so far downhill so fast between then and now. Hell, if anything Gibson and his ilk are to the right of the Birch Society. As best I remember, Birchers tended to be isolationist, and were generally quite sympathetic to the Presidential candidacy of Barry Goldwater in '64. Who would qualify as a screaming liberal by modern wingnut standards.
Scary to think if the US continues its rightward drift at the same rate it has since the 60's, it may not be that long before we find ourselves at a place that makes Gilead seem like a pastoral utopia by comparison.
..
So. Is anyone here even remotely surprised that this guy turned out to be completely innocent?
Eli
A little, actually. Call me Anglophile, but I thought generally the British police were cautious enough about the use of their intelligence not to clusterbungle.
Yeah, we should execute those who don't conform to accepted norms.
Gen. JC Christian, patriot
Well, sure.
This is a matter of national security. And we can't be secure until all the abnormal people are dead.
If you do not parrot the "artiot" party line, the eschaton goons will be released!
Do you really think those cops are going to go home and wank off because they were happy to kill a brown person? Brag about it to their buddies at the pub? Take pictures of themselves with the body? They're still probably shaking from the fear of the moment, sick with regret and fear for killing an innocent man. They aren't monsters, they're just humans doing what humans would do in a godawful situation like that.
You're right, the cops are probably traumatized.
The real monsters are people like John Gibson who cheer on and defend this travesty of justice. Anyone who justifies summary executions by the police because of fear of "terrorist bombers" is a monster, not a cop who makes the biggest fuckup of his life.
I feel sorry for the cop. I fear the people who say his actions were RIGHT.
What the fuck are you doing running around in a goddamn parka in the subway in summer?
London ain't Louisiana, Incog. People wear puffa jackets in summer, and t-shirts in mid-winter if they want. Not to mention all those Americans in pink nylon tracksuits.
In case anybody cares:
MTP Sunday, July 24, 2005
Fred Thompson, Dick Durbin, David Gregory, William Safire, Stuart Taylor & Nina Totenberg
Face the nation
Joseph Biden
Fox
We'll question two of the key senators in the confirmation battle: Sens. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. and John Cornyn, R-Texas.
Plus, terrorists threaten London again. What are the lessons to be learned by officials here? And the Patriot Act (search): Does it do enough to protect civil liberties and help authorities prevent an attack?
We'll tackle these issues and the administration's plan to win approval for the new Supreme Court nominee with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
This Week
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., on the London bombings, the nomination of John Roberts to the Supreme Court and the White House leak investigation.
Also, on our roundtable: Former presidential adviser David Gergen, Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne and ABC News congressional correspondent Linda Douglass.
In other Ohio news . . .
I'm going to be skeptical of the official videotape if there is a dancing baby in the background.
Linc Case
Only if it's a brown skinned dancing baby.
Seems to me he was acting a fool and paid the consequences. These days you got to tighten up about it. I hope those officers don't suffer anything.
Dare to think for yourself and talk about true liberal ideas at your own risk!
WTF?
British police rules of engagement require officers to declare that they're armed
9/11 changed 7/7.
and what did you do with this cookie now that IE will not support? What kind of spyware are you trying to put on my computer?
What the fuck are you doing running around in a goddamn parka in the subway in summer? That's acting suspicious especially after the recent attacks. Wear a goddamn t-shirt. Am I getting this right? Just looks like more 'thinning the herd' to me.
Yeah, he deserved to die for a fashion crime. George Orwell would have loved this.
All those things are more fun when you're naked.
Thersites - The Doukhobors Welcome You.
What is the probability that Biden would be on at least 1 sunday show? How Many times will biden be on for the next 5.25 months
What the fuck are you doing running around in a goddamn parka in the subway in summer?
Well if we are going to target people who were parkas at inappropriate times, what about Cheney's antics at Auschwitz?
OMG. This troll is batshit crazy.
London ain't Louisiana, Incog.
Well, they need to stop acting stoopid like that these days. I don't blame the officers for nothing.
So. Is anyone here even remotely surprised that this guy turned out to be completely innocent?
Eli
From the eye-witness account of the shooting BBC kept playing over and over again yesterday...
...no. I'm not surprised. This is precisely what I feared. Stranger in town panics, runs, cops assume the worst, gun him down ASAP.
As the General said, the standard here was: kill anyone who doesn't conform to accepted norms.
Can't take any chances, after all.
That, at least, would be the American attitude. The attitude reported in that BBC article Atrios linked to gives me hope for civilization.
Just not for American "civilization."
The BBC has a brief description of the shooting policy here.
JeffCO
Helpful article, JeffCO. Thanks
I'm not condemning the cops. I wasn't there. I don't know what they knew or thought they knew.
But I'm certainly not cheering on vigilante justice. cops are cops, not executioners.
A little, actually. Call me Anglophile, but I thought generally the British police were cautious enough about the use of their intelligence not to clusterbungle.
I admit, it did seem a bit out of character for the Brits (I didn't even know their cops carried guns now), but as someone pointed out yesterday, if the guy had had explosives, that would unquestionably have been part of the original story.
atrios has released the hounds on those that will not proclaim that bigvic and the usual regulars are god -- everyone else is here to agree with them or be declared a troll
Even when you are supporting the liberal cause and working against the war machine
If you do not parrot the "artiot" party line, the eschaton goons will be released!
oh, yeah, migod, the "goons".
They might say bad words to you and ask you hard questions that take all kinds of thinking and stuff and you'll have to go running back to LGF whining about how the bad liberals were mean to you.
Wear a goddamn close fitting t-shirt.
Should we all feather our hair and become a patriotic army of Vinnie Barbarino's?
Tennessee Jed,
Iv'e been banging drums about a maximum wage for some 10 years now, I guess I will accept yer invitation.
Dammit, my new thread radar is completely broken.
My feeling is that this John Gibson fellow is overcompensating for a lack of mass in the anterior pantal area.
I bet he drives a Hummer.
.
Wear a goddamn close-fitting t-shirt and don't run from the police with a walkman hanging off you. Lie down on the ground with your arms and legs outstretched if they want to detain you. Don't act like a fucking idiot.
Also, the police shoot to kill policy was secret. They didn't announce it.
So, plain clothes cops with guns (police don't have any in the UK) chasing down a "Paki" and he makes a run for it.
He may not even have spoken English.
He might have had the coat on for a variety of reasons - all the clothes he had in the world, he was a shop lifter, he felt cold, he was homeless, etc.
And they shoot him down like a dog.
Oops, sorry, the Brits are too PC to shoot dogs.
I hope Blair et al resign after this one. It shows how stupid and ineffective their anti-terror tactics are.
For years, they allowed the terrorists who financed the 1995 bombings in Paris not to be extradited to France because they said that the French would "mistreat" him. Now that the Brits have a taste of terrorism, they act like the worst type of thugs.
The Irish could have told you that that's what the Brits would do, no matter how fucking newspapers say "Brits remain calm" after terror attacks.
Today, I see a gentleman in a heavy coat (remember, all, it's the height of summer in the UK) jump a turnstile and go running for the tubes, refusing to stop when yelled at by you and your fellow officers.
You left out "plainclothes".
With all due respect to those running through their Jack Bauer fantasies, I'd rather take the risk of having a suicide bomber blow himself up than have any more Asian kids taken out by coppers for wearing puffa jackets in warm weather. The latter does deep, long-term damage.
Ffs, this is Stockwell. He might have had an ounce of gear or a few dodgy DVDs in his jacket, which would explain why he ran off.
This is a matter of national security. And we can't be secure until all the abnormal people are dead.
I recommend having squads of plainclothes cops run after people with their guns drawn, and then shoot everyone who runs.
too bad for gibson the guy was brazilian, not french. then he could have really celebrated.
now if it were a suicide bomber being chased by 20 cops in the subway, i think i'd stop and wait for them all to gather around me. just sayin.
what kind of cosmic debris is it that turns our response to the death of innocent people into killing innocent people? and how do we know who is even innocent?
remember: they are only terrorists if you are terrified.
I thought generally the British police were cautious enough about the use of their intelligence not to clusterbungle.
Um, not really, no....
My favorite punchline now is that unconfirmed reports say he was Brazilian. Thank God! Now we can feel sorry for the poor Christian dude and his family, whereas if he was some S. Asian Muslim, then he deserved it just by being born and we don't have to say we're sorry.
atrios has released the hounds on those that will not proclaim that bigvic and the usual regulars are god
hounds... ooo-kay.
more like slobbery Labrador Retrievers.
Be responsible about yourself. The police here will blow you away for much less, believe me. And it don't matter if you're black or white.
From the Guardian:
"The man emerged from a block of flats in the Stockwell area that were under police surveillance as part of the investigation into the incidents on Thursday July 21.
"He was then followed by surveillance officers to the underground station. His clothing and behaviour added to their suspicions."
Scotland Yard said the circumstances of the man's death were being investigated by the Met's directorate of professional standards, and will be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.
The fatal shooting at Stockwell happened at 10am yesterday when armed plain clothes police officers shot a man as he tried to board a train at the underground station.
The Asian man then bolted down an escalator and tried to get on a train before he was, according to witnesses, shot five times in the head by an officer with an automatic pistol.
Train passenger Mark Whitby said: "As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified.
"He sort of tripped but they were hotly pursuing him and couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time.
"They unloaded five shots into him. I saw it. He's dead, five shots, he's dead."
I recommend having squads of plainclothes cops run after people with their guns drawn, and then shoot everyone who runs.
Just like they do in South Central Los Angeles.
I'm afraid I can't accept the simple condemnation I'm seeing here. Not for this circumstance, regretful as it is. Not unless someone can present a solution that would have prevented multiple deaths if the individual HAD been a bomber.
Kirk Spencer
No simple condemnation, here.
But how many innocent people are you willing to kill on the basis of that concluding premise of yours? The former head of the Met police said: "...he expected officers to face criminal charges, and other officers could even refuse to carry weapons."
Sounds like a rational response to me.
christ, most london summers, including this one, are barely warm.
Last time I was in London and Scotland it was the beginning of June, 2000? We had to wear coats (heavy coats) it was so cold in the mornings and evenings. If this guy was from a southern clime, he may have felt a puff jacket was appropriate. But all of this is beside the point.
I vaguely remember back in the 60's there was an organization for unhinged, McCarthy-ite wingnuts called the John Birch Society.
You just noticed! I forget who it is but one of the current neoCon notables is the son of the guy who founded the John Birch society.
Back in the sixties we use to laugh at the mention of these people. Now they're running the country.
I've said it before but had he lived and had the FOXNews echo machine been in existence in the 1950s, Joe McCarthy would have been the 1960 Republican Presidential candidate.
i dont know what the cops should have done, but what sickens me is the glee pusbags like gibson feel. it is barbaric.
Well, they need to stop acting stoopid like that these days.
Well, mate, you should make sure you don't need to take a piss in a public toilet, because gays + public toilets means just one thing, doesn't it?
Stop being such a fuckwit.
christ, most london summers, including this one, are barely warm.
Atrios
Particularly to someone from Brazil.
Or, say, Phoenix.
what kind of cosmic debris is it that turns our response to the death of innocent people into killing innocent people?
What a mind-blowing question that is.
I recommend having squads of plainclothes cops run after people with their guns drawn, and then shoot everyone who runs.
Eli
I have bad knees and wear cowboy boots.
Even though that's a fashion disaster most of the time, it will keep me safe. Run, I cannot.
What I find so interesting is this quote from today's news article: "John O'Connor, former commander of the Met Police, told the BBC the consequences of the shooting were likely to be "quite horrendous".
Note he didn't say the shooting was horrendous but was only worried about the CONSEQUENCES from the shooting being horrendous. Just tough crap for the innocent dead guy and his family though, right.
I'm afraid I can't accept the simple condemnation I'm seeing here. Not for this circumstance, regretful as it is. Not unless someone can present a solution that would have prevented multiple deaths if the individual HAD been a bomber.
Kill 'em all and let Yahweh sort it out.
Yeah Booooooy.
.
It's probably already been said, but why wouldn't you run from people chasing you with guns? Why did they let him anywhere near people if they had him under surveillance at home? Why did they let him get on a fucking bus? What the fuck is going on here?
Seems to me he was acting a fool and paid the consequences.
that is one of the most stupid, heartless, evil things i've seen posted in a while.
maybe one day, specs, you'll be wearing the wrong clothes or have the wrong color skin or live in the wrong house. when a bunch of strangers chase you into the underground, i hope you don't do anything to arouse their further ire.
christ, most london summers, including this one, are barely warm.
Atrios
Particularly to someone from Brazil.
Or, say, Phoenix.
GWPDA, Irate Scholar
Hadn't even considered that. I know some people here in Houston up from Ecuador. To them, the Houston winter is miserably cold.
Of course, to people from Chicago, Houston has no winter.
Well, mate, you should make sure you don't need to take a piss in a public toilet, because gays + public toilets means just one thing, doesn't it?
Yeah, same difference in the age of terrorism.
"As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified.
Kirk Spencer?
London, Friday: max 69F, min 55F.
Shreveport, LA, Friday: max 93F, min 75F.
christ, most london summers, including this one, are barely warm.
I thought that was just me. Londoners walking around in sleeveless shirts while my teeth are chattering because it's hovering around 60 degrees.
The guy is brown and getting chased by a mob of undercover cops. Gee, I wonder why he ran? Might he have heard about this:
FAR RIGHT AND FOOTBALL GANGS PLOT 'REVENGE'
Plans by an alliance of rightwing extremists and football hooligans to exact "revenge" on Muslims after last week's bomb attacks are being monitored by police.
The Guardian has learned that extremists are keen to cause widespread fear and injury with attacks on mosques and high-profile "anti-Muslim" events in the capital.
Football hooligans communicating over the internet have spoken of the need to put aside partisan support for teams and unite against Muslims. Hooligans from West Ham, Millwall, Crystal Palace and Arsenal are among those seeking to establish common cause. ...
Hmm, I wonder.
Shoot to kill first, ask questions later.
I'm afraid I can't accept the simple condemnation I'm seeing here. Not for this circumstance, regretful as it is. Not unless someone can present a solution that would have prevented multiple deaths if the individual HAD been a bomber.
We live in a free society. We can't condone actions like Gibson describes. There is no justification for tackling a person and executing him on the spot with five shots to the head. It violates everything we're supposed to believe in.
It's probably already been said, but why wouldn't you run from people chasing you with guns?
There's been a number of articles I've seen in passing the last couple weeks about Britisn Muslims and their increasing uneasiness, if not justified paranoia.
Seems logical to me to run away from what you could assume to be a lynch mob out for your blood. But then again, being a white guy what do I know?
That's nothing, wt. The Bigg Market, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, is packed of a Saturday night with slightly inebriated people in either shirt-sleeves, soccer team shirts, or very skimpy outfits, in 40s F.
I have bad knees and wear cowboy boots.
Are they sheer?
Football hooligans communicating over the internet have spoken of the need to put aside partisan support for teams and unite against Muslims. Hooligans from West Ham, Millwall, Crystal Palace and Arsenal are among those seeking to establish common cause. ...
So touching to see enemies united by a common tragedy like that...
Please visit my new line of "5 in Da Noggin" novelties and apparel (but don't forget our other "Club Gitmo" line of products). Ho ho ho, it's great to be on the right side of history. Ho ho ho! I'm so clever. Ho ho ho.
Are they sheer?
Thersites
I should have mentioned "with support hose," huh?
It's probably already been said, but why wouldn't you run from people chasing you with guns?
Yeah, but after this, if you see people running at you with guns, WHAT DO YOU DO NOW???
and what did you do with this cookie now that IE will not support? What kind of spyware are you trying to put on my computer?
Mom...the trollbot's coming unglued again!
Wear a goddamn close fitting t-shirt.
Uhm, at my age, in my condition. Not. A. Good. Idea. Trust me on this one.
God, skinhead BNP bastards from east London getting ready for a bit of gratuitous Paki-bashing, and Jonah Fucking Goldberg writes a column about why Britain is failing because it doesn't wave the flag? He's probably the first Jewish honorary member of the National Front.
I can't imagine what it must feel like to be Arab or have some sort of colouring that would suggest Muslim origins and live in the UK.
I just convinced a friend of mine from Egypt to move to London for a job. He liked it quite a bit until yesterday.
Now, I feel really very bad. I hope I haven't put him in harm's way.
London, Friday: max 69F, min 55F.
Again: in Houston, we call that "winter," and drag out heavy coats.
And this guy was from Brazil.
Just sayin'....
I thought that was just me. Londoners walking around in sleeveless shirts while my teeth are chattering because it's hovering around 60 degrees.
That does make Mr Costello's Central Park in July jacket-wearing rather more mysterious, actually... verrry suspicious....
He was linked to the terror probe because he came out of a building where a suspected terrorist lived. There were problably other people who lived in that building as well, if it was in the poorer parts of London.
I'm not condemning the cops. I wasn't there. I don't know what they knew or thought they knew.
But I'm certainly not cheering on vigilante justice. cops are cops, not executioners.
Atrios | 07.23.05 - 4:18 pm | #
That sums it up quite well IMO. I don't think it's time to condemn the cops, but it certainly wasn't time to congratulate them when all we knew was that they killed a brown-skinned person.
I can certainly think of circumstances where it would be justified to do what they did. For instance, if they reasonably believed that he was about to set off a bomb.
As a matter of fact, that is the standard or self defense and defense of others in American law. If you reasonably believe that your life is in danger, you are excused... not justified, because that implies that it was a good thing to do... but being excused means that you aren't responsible as long as your fear was reasonable.
Rmj: I have bad knees and wear cowboy boots.
Even though that's a fashion disaster most of the time, it will keep me safe. Run, I cannot.
Y'know, I don't mind the boots... but do you have to wear them with that Speedo?
.
hounds... ooo-kay.
more like slobbery Labrador Retrievers.
i thought they'd be kitties.
Officers are human beings, too. They are under a great deal of stress these days especially there and probably here soon. These people want to die and take them out as well. I'll err on the side of caution on their side so far. I don't think that they had a grudge against dark skinned people. It just so happens that those who are blowing the legs and arms off ordinary folks are brown skinned people.
And don't throw up McVeigh.
London, Friday: max 69F, min 55F.
There are people here in South Carolina who will bundle themselves up like Richard Peary on an Arctic expedition if the temprature falls below 70.
Makes wearing a parka in 60 degree weather a little more understandable.
There are people here in South Carolina who will bundle themselves up like Richard Peary on an Arctic expedition if the temprature falls below 70.
I see you've met my girlfriend.
The main use for sleeves on t-shirts in the Bigg Market is for lads to store their packets of tabs on a Friday night. Women with steam-breath and skin turned blue by the cold, gathering under the Fat Slags billboard.
The British don't fucking dress for the weather.
If you took a poll of the Fox news anchors and asked them what their favorite film is, I'd bet "Caligula" would win hands down. I could imagine them wupping and cheering during every sadistic scene.
Presumably US cops will know enough carry a "throw-down" bomb in the event of the unfortunate innocent swarthy noggin being blown open.
High in London today 73 degrees, Low 57.
Yeah, I'm with you spiritraveller, it's tragic in the extreme but so far it does appear to be misplaced self-defense, and it is being investigated.
So touching to see enemies united by a common tragedy like that...
well isn't that what they were saying should happen on FAUX&Freinds the morning of 7/7?
"Football hooligans communicating over the internet have spoken of the need to put aside partisan support for teams and unite against Muslims".
It would be almost funny that the only thing they take more seriously than their football riots are the Muslims.
I take a little consolation in the thought that these guys are more likely to blow themselves up making a bomb than anyone else.
Mr. Anonymous, I don't care if you want to complain about anything, but putting all that blankspace in your post to get attention was in poor taste. I wasted the best two seconds of my life scrolling through it.
Up here in Canada, I remember a local family from Sudan that regularly wore sweaters and/or heavy coats in anything under 75 degrees F.
We used to laugh at them.
"It's cold," they protested.
We laughed.
But we sure didn't reach for our revolvers.
Shoot to kill first, ask questions later.
I mean, aren't the London cops merely tearing a page outta the "pre-emptive doctrine" and shooting anything that scares them. Oooga-booga, look over there, mushroom clouds in 45 minutes!!!!
The terms 'British' and 'weather' in the same sentence must always be used cautiously, so as to cause as little offence as possible.
maybe one day, specs, you'll be wearing the wrong clothes or have the wrong color skin or live in the wrong house. when a bunch of strangers chase you into the underground, i hope you don't do anything to arouse their further ire.
Oh, I hope s/he does.
WHAT DO YOU DO NOW???
Eli | Email | Homepage | 07.23.05 - 4:28 pm | #
===
No fucking shit, Eli. Actually, what exactly could this guy have done to not get killed? How many cops pile on someone they think might explode?
I can't imagine what it must feel like to be Arab or have some sort of colouring that would suggest Muslim origins and live in the UK.
A lot of Iranians attended Utah State University during the Hostage Crisis. A Latino friend of mine was mistaken for one at a local bar and severely beaten by a bunch of rednecks. The funny thing about it is that even the people who were pissed off about my friend being beaten, seemed to think it would have been OK if he was actually an Iranian.
He was linked to the terror probe because he came out of a building where a suspected terrorist lived.
that is the same rational that condi gave for attacking saddam - 'from the same region....'
I don't think it's time to condemn the cops, but it certainly wasn't time to congratulate them when all we knew was that they killed a brown-skinned person.
Bingo.
It seems kinda funny that they were worried about him setting off a bomb, but they were two to three feet from him when they shot him, according to that eyewitness.
"The man emerged from a block of flats in the Stockwell area that were under police surveillance
A block of flats! The wingnuts make it seem like he emerged from a known safe house.
This seems to be a new interpretation of
MIND THE GAP.
London, Friday: max 69F, min 55F.
I live in Tucson, Arizona, and I've spent all my life in the desert.
I would fucking FREEZE in 69 degree weather.
I would wear a jacket, yes indeedy. Especially if I only had one jacket with me, and it happened to be a puffy one.
Jesus.
It was his fault.
Can you believe there are assholes
who would even suggest that?
Well, it just goes to show that nobody outside Louisiana have any sense.
Can you believe there are assholes
who would even suggest that?
Sadly, yes. I'm not the least bit surprised, and deep down, I don't think you are either.
Officers are human beings, too. They are under a great deal of stress these days especially there and probably here soon.
Well, boo hoo hoo. Newflash: that's their job. That's what they're paid for. They're professionals. They should act like it.
I'll err on the side of caution on their side so far.
Ha-ha-ha -- this truly is Bizarro World, where shooting first and asking questions later passes for "erring on the side of caution."
Betcha just love those 25,000 dead Iraqi civilians -- killed because of "Heroes in Error."
WANKER.
remember: they are only terrorists if you are terrified.
shbinga | Email | 07.23.05 - 4:20 pm | #
bin laden sitting outside the cave, stroking his beard, with a big smile.
Yeah, but after this, if you see people running at you with guns, WHAT DO YOU DO NOW???
Go back to doing the crossword puzzle.
And this guy was from Brazil.
It's heartless to say it, but I'm sure the Met will be secretly relieved if that's true.
Oraibi! You're in the wrong part of the state, you trickster, you! Tena was just asking about how things are going in the San Francisco Peaks and here you show up....
These people want to die and take them out as well. I'll err on the side of caution on their side so far. I don't think that they had a grudge against dark skinned people. It just so happens that those who are blowing the legs and arms off ordinary folks are brown skinned people.
And don't throw up McVeigh.
Kill 'em all and let Yahweh sort it out.
Yeah Booooooy.
And as a person who has a coloring that could in some mind be suggestive of origin from an islamic country, I bow to the fear of the poor terrified white folks.
Kill 'em alll. I'm jhungry and need to make a big omelette.
.
.
It just so happens that those who are blowing the legs and arms off ordinary folks are brown skinned people.
And don't throw up McVeigh.
'cause white terrorists are an abberation! Not like Those People who are just itchin' to kill someone from the second they pop outta the womb.
It's like some bad parody of Klingons or Orcs or something.
It was an obvious mistake, but Fox should not be dancing in the streets over it. What if it was Juan Williams' kid that was shot. Isnt he brown too?
Officers are human beings, too. They are under a great deal of stress these days especially there
specs -
yes, and so are brown skinned people. i understand the cops may have over-reacted, which happens less often in the UK than in say, LA. Mostly because only cops with special training/need have guns.
but
EVEN IF THE GUY HAD BEEN GUILTY, I'll bet the cops involved wouldn't be taking the same glee as Count von Gibson.
Go ahead. Defend him.
oh, almost forgot to say: rove is a douche.
A block of flats! The wingnuts make it seem like he emerged from a known safe house.
Yeah, but they were *council* flats.
Ha-ha-ha -- this truly is Bizarro World, where shooting first and asking questions later passes for "erring on the side of caution."
Betcha just love those 25,000 dead Iraqi civilians -- killed because of "Heroes in Error."
Wanna know what's *really* scary? American citizens carry guns, not just cops - what's to stop some yahoo or gang of yahoos from performing a "citizen's quintuple-tap" on someone they think looks dodgy? You know, just to err on the side of caution?
And don't tell me "The Law", because in their minds, they'd think they're heroes and will get medals. And probably would.
I was in London during the heat wave that the 101st fighting keyboarders chuckled about because French people were dying and the temps were in the 80's.
I didn't take a jacket with me but ended up having to buy one because the breeze at night was so cool.
Can you believe there are assholes
who would even suggest that?
steve simels | Email | 07.23.05 - 4:35 pm |
==
It makes me want to cry from the futility.
Incognito, don't consider me one of your supporters here any longer.
Give pie a gun and have her watching terrorists, then.
He was linked to the terror probe because he came out of a building where a suspected terrorist lived.
Many of the "anti-terrorist" techniques originate with Israeli counter terrorism consultants. The shots to the head business is what they teach.
If you live in the same building as a suspected terrorist in occupied West Bank or Gaza the Israelis reserve the right to level the entire building to get that one individual. They've done it.
Expect a lot more of this and wait till a suicide bomber strikes in the US. FOXNews is so primed to lead this country into mass hysteria that they were complaining that the Brits weren't acting angry enough.
putting all that blankspace in your post to get attention was in poor taste. I wasted the best two seconds of my life scrolling through it.
hell, that whitespace was the best part of any of the postings he's made today.
And don't throw up McVeigh.
Not sure I can do that. I'm devouring him daily, but those militia guys sure are gamey -- up he comes every morning.
So, how's the heat treatin' yer meat, today?
.
Jesus.
It was his fault.
The wingers are blaming Jesus?
And don't throw up McVeigh.
Ô¿Ô | 07.23.05 - 4:30 pm | #
why would mcveigh throw up, and why would you try and stop him?
So, how's the heat treatin' yer meat, today?
Just... great.
Personally, I find Gibson's attitude as a human being repellant precisely for his 'screw everybody that's not me and mine' ideology. And, I might add, I also find the occasional calls for people who can be difficult to deal with, like Incog, to meet with painful or violent comeuppances nothing to feel superior about.
And yet, I have no fear of reprisals or Atriotic retributions. Huh.
... don't consider me one of your supporters here any longer.
Same here, pal. Take a fucking hike.
Solomon was wrong, he should have cut the baby in two, along with an onion (so they could wear it on a belt, as was the style in the day), that way both mothers have half a baby and half an onion.
.
Expect a lot more of this and wait till a suicide bomber strikes in the US. FOXNews is so primed to lead this country into mass hysteria
exactly.
Mmm... onion-baby...
Incognito, don't consider me one of your supporters here any longer.
mena
I don't consider anyone here a "supporter" of mine. But you don't run around, from what I understand, in a parka, in the subway which has been recently bombed acting suspiciously. We live in the goddamn age of terrorism. Act responsible. I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot. It's up to everybody to give the police the least amount of shit these days.
Give pie a gun and have her watching terrorists, then.
I'm too busy watching someone try to goad others into a certain desired reaction.
Very interesting.
Shit, I thought he was kidding. The asshole is serious. What a dickhead.
Go back to doing the crossword puzzle.
watertiger
What I'm saying. Never make eye contact.
And don't throw up McVeigh.
Fine...
Eric Rudolph
the Columbine Kids
Wanna know what's *really* scary? American citizens carry guns, not just cops - what's to stop some yahoo or gang of yahoos from performing a "citizen's quintuple-tap" on someone they think looks dodgy? You know, just to err on the side of caution?
here in Florida, they passed a law to that effect. if you feel threatened, feel free to pop a cap in their ass.
I'm *pretty* sure Incog is being ironic throughout this thread, but not enough to bet money on it.
Oraibi! You're in the wrong part of the state, you trickster, you!
Well, yeah. I really should be up by, you know, Oraibi.
But I like the name so much, so I hope you'll excuse me for living down in Tucson... while you're at it, check out my new blog, Just Deserts. Lotta shit going on in our desert here to be concerned about, such as Raging Grannies and humanitarians being threatened with criminal punishment...
GWPDA - I noticed Kiva Oraibi when I was scrolling through.
It is quite the coincedence.
Well, if he turns out to be a Christian Brazilian I wonder if the faux-libertarians cheering on this appropriate use of state power will switch gears and say that the problem here is that the UK's strict control laws prevented this guy from defending himself against a tyrannical state.
nah.
A good anti-terror measure is to have police with bomb sniffing dogs in the subway station and other public areas.
AQ wants successes, not many arrested would-be bombers, so they would have to think of another way to attack.
The French had a long string of terror attacks in 1995, and then, nothing.
Maybe they are doing something right.
The London police, by their actions yesterday, just recruited another 50 suicide bombers for AQ.
MTP Sunday, July 24, 2005
Fred Thompson, Dick Durbin, David Gregory, William Safire, Stuart Taylor & Nina Totenberg
Face the nation
Joseph Biden
Fox
We'll question two of the key senators in the confirmation battle: Sens. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. and John Cornyn, R-Texas.
Plus, terrorists threaten London again. What are the lessons to be learned by officials here? And the Patriot Act (search): Does it do enough to protect civil liberties and help authorities prevent an attack?
We'll tackle these issues and the administration's plan to win approval for the new Supreme Court nominee with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
This Week
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., on the London bombings, the nomination of John Roberts to the Supreme Court and the White House leak investigation.
Also, on our roundtable: Former presidential adviser David Gergen, Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne and ABC News congressional correspondent Linda Douglass.
So the "coppers" are always wrong? Is that part of what it means to be a "liberal"?
...you don't run around, from what I understand, in a parka, in the subway which has been recently bombed acting suspiciously.
By the same token, faggots shouldn't come within 1000 feet of a child that's been molested. We all know "those" people are the culprits.
End. Of. Story.
Well, it's you LIBERALS who can take a hike. I don't want no part of that.
It's up to everybody to give the police the least amount of shit these days.
Damn straight! After all, they are only following orders.
So - lemme get this straight.
When it's dark-skinned people in the 'hood or other countries acting all "barbaric", it's proof of their subhuman nature and all they understand is force and we gotta kill them before they kill us.
BUT -
when it's white guys in Britain or the U.S. who're acting "barbaric", it's considered heroic and brave and incredible and something we gotta do now 'cause 9/11 changed everything and we gotta fight dirty to be pure&clean.
Is that about right?
I don't consider anyone here a "supporter" of mine. But you don't run around, from what I understand, in a parka, in the subway which has been recently bombed acting suspiciously. We live in the goddamn age of terrorism. Act responsible. I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot.
Didn't I hear this same thing stated word for word on Fox or was it Starship Trooper.
Eli - no, he's serious. And that's just..so...sad.
Give pie a gun and have her watching terrorists, then.
Ô¿Ô | 07.23.05 - 4:38 pm | #
you meed a new perscription, specs. 'cause you just can't see it.
THE GUY WASN'T A TERRORIST.
when the one innocent who is accidently killed in the name of stopping the terrorists is someone you love, perhaps you will understand. it's just so easy to not care about someone you've never met and never would because of some phony concern for other people you've never met and never will.
but let me tell you something that i hope you never have to learn: dying is easy. its the survivors who really suffer.
If you live in the same building as a suspected terrorist in occupied West Bank or Gaza the Israelis reserve the right to level the entire building to get that one individual. They've done it.
It's a bit different in the West where I daresay, most of us in apartments hardly even know our neighbors to say good morning to. Unlike in other cultures where families tend to live clustered together.
Oh, we're on "faggots" now in the age of terrorism. Never heard about a fag blowing himself up, the officers and ordinary folks going about their lives going to work.
Yeah, Eli. Incog's got a humongous blinds spot when it comes to terrorism.
Yeah, Eli. Incog's got a humongous blinds spot when it comes to terrorism.
I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot.
Applicable to so many situations.
Eli - no, he's serious. And that's just..so...sad.
I'm not an Incog fan, but lines like "It's up to everybody to give the police the least amount of shit these days", and "I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot" sound like parody to me.
Give pie a gun and have her watching terrorists, then.
Ô¿Ô
probably not incog
Many of the "anti-terrorist" techniques originate with Israeli counter terrorism consultants. The shots to the head business is what they teach.
Yep. I just read this Guardian story which describes the Israeli anti-terrorism training.
Note to self:
Wait until police confirm circumstances of shocking police shooting before celebrating the event in print.
Well, if he turns out to be a Christian Brazilian I wonder if the faux-libertarians cheering on this appropriate use of state power will switch gears and say
"he shoulda stayed home where he belongs. It's still his fault."
Incognito, don't consider me one of your supporters here any longer.
And I though I was the last one on that train, managed to hop on just before it left the station.
.
Carpbasman: Yeah, Eli. Incog's got a humongous blinds spot when it comes to terrorism.
... and where sexuality not being a choice is concerned.
... and general social interactions, personal skills...
.
After all, they are only following orders.
Brains not in working order?
I'm not an Incog fan, but lines like "It's up to everybody to give the police the least amount of shit these days", and "I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot" sound like parody to me.
or maybe a namestealer?
Todd Beamer, "Let's roll" turned out to be BS as well according to 9/11 commission.
Can't help but wonder how ol' Neil Young feels about that...
i'm going to be contrary. just because.
pu.
-J.T.
here in Florida, they passed a law to that effect. if you feel threatened, feel free to pop a cap in their ass.
WOOHOO!
no offense, but between hurricanes, JEB!, Cuban exiles, Broward County police, Disney and this, I have more than enough reasons to stay outta Florida. Oh, and creepy old New Yorker snowbirds.
I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot. It's up to everybody to give the police the least amount of shit these days.
scariest statement you can make, and most dangerous to a free society: if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear.
corallary: do what you are told or be very afraid.
or maybe a namestealer?
To me it sounds more like Incog being ironic than a troll trying to make him look bad. Granted, it's a fine line...
Well, if he turns out to be a Christian Brazilian I wonder if the faux-libertarians cheering on this appropriate use of state power will switch gears and say that the problem here is that the UK's strict control laws prevented this guy from defending himself against a tyrannical state.
nah.
They'll just demand that Britain return the Falkland Islands...
Atrios,
He was dark-skin. The wingers dont care about those people-Christian or not. Also can the DNC passs a resolution barring Biden from speaking on Sunday?
when the one innocent who is accidently killed in the name of stopping the terrorists is someone you love, perhaps you will understand. it's just so easy to not care about someone you've never met and never would because of some phony concern for other people you've never met and never will.
but let me tell you something that i hope you never have to learn: dying is easy. its the survivors who really suffer.
shbinga
This is insane. We live in the GODDAMN AGE OF TERRORISM. Get it? I'll err on the officers involved. I do not think they had a personal racist grudge against brown-skinned people.
So the "coppers" are always wrong? Is that part of what it means to be a "liberal"?
Hey, asshole, the British cops have admitted it was a collossal screw-up, probably one of the worst they've done in recent memory.
It's only idiot Americans who are DEFENDING and CHEERING the guy. The British cops are HORRIFIED at what happened and they certainly aren't EXCUSING and JUSTIFYING it.
i am ***SO SURE*** that if someone pulls a gun on john gibson or "chuck", their first thought will be "i'd better comply, it might be a plain-clothes officer!"
Ô¿Ô | 07.23.05 - 4:47 pm | #
Nice segue.
Knew it was coming.
Why did that post twice?
Eli, he went on a irrational tirade about muslims after the first London bombings. It's best just to ignore him when he gets like this, because even if he doesn't mean to be, he becaomes the functional equivalent of a troll.
(and yes, I know - it's Argentina.)
So the "coppers" are always wrong? Is that part of what it means to be a "liberal"?
I see you picked up a bunch of the "really big paintbrushes" at the arts&crafts store today, bub.
.
i am ***SO SURE*** that if someone pulls a gun on john gibson or "chuck", their first thought will be "i'd better comply, it might be a plain-clothes officer!"
Anyone want to put it to the test?
You liberals are really walking off the deep-end here.
I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot
if all those Soviets during the 30's just wouldn't have criticized Unca Joe, they wouldn't have ended up in the Gulag.
The heat wave has broken up here. Something rolled in and there are clouds and it's only in the low 60's.
Thank you, Hopis and Jeebus.
The story here is so awful I can hardly stand to think about it. The whole world has turned into the West Bank, apparently, as we all adopt the tactics that are working so very well for the Israelis.
*sigh*
Wanna know what's *really* scary? American citizens carry guns, not just cops - what's to stop some yahoo or gang of yahoos from performing a "citizen's quintuple-tap" on someone they think looks dodgy? You know, just to err on the side of caution?
Where have you been, Eli? After 9/11, many darker-skinned people were killed in the US by yahoos like these. Some victims were Hispanic, some were Sikhs, some were various nationalities from the Middle East and Asia, etc.
But I like the name so much, so I hope you'll excuse me for living down in Tucson...
Works for me - lots easier to say than, oh, Kiva Second Mesa, or Kiva Just to the right of Third Mesa by the New French Restaurant. Or mine, GWPDA By A Low Fence or Quicksand Bog.
Things are jumping in Tucson - thanks for kicking out the Minutemen btw.
I'm not an Incog fan, but lines like "It's up to everybody to give the police the least amount of shit these days", and "I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot" sound like parody to me.
Same here.
You liberals are really walking off the deep-end here.
Maybe we should be shot for not conforming to the norm.
here in Florida, they passed a law to that effect. if you feel threatened, feel free to pop a cap in their ass.
i love that.
because i feel threatened by noelle bush.
Beatles fans will know that Brits look down on these type of stupid police shootings.
Beatles assistant Mal Evans was gunned down in LA by trigger-happy cops.
You might not know who Mal Evans was, but you know the song "Let It Be." When Paul McC was first writing the song, the operative agent was "Mal Evans," not "Mother Mary."
You'd be right to say that "Mal Evans" doesn't scan the same as "
Mother Mary." but the melody changed too.
But trigger-happy police don't change much
Not my style, but okay, fine — as long as they get the five in the noggin of the right bomber boy. They do that and I'm fine.
Your style would be to shit your pants, you weaselly spook-haired fuck.
Eli, he went on a irrational tirade about muslims after the first London bombings. It's best just to ignore him when he gets like this, because even if he doesn't mean to be, he becaomes the functional equivalent of a troll.
I actually consider him a functional troll most of the time as well, and usually ignore him accordingly. But I never exactly pegged him as pro-cop or pro-authority, ya know?
the secret to great comedy? timing.
let us not forget that gibson is the same toad who, on 7/6, lamented that paris had not gotten the olympics becasue they would be so much better a target for bombers.
This guy broke into my grandparent's home. He started stealing my grandmother's jewels, wedding band, etc. My grandfather woke up, saw what was happening and grabbed his hunting rifle.
As the intruder made his way through their home he grabbed my grandmother and put his arm around her neck, along with a gun in his other hand up to the temple of her head.
My grandfather, knowing you have to be tough on crime in order to stop it put two .22 slugs through my grandmother's head. As they passed through her skull and out out the other side of her cranium they slammed into the intruder's eyesockets.
As my grandmother lay there, her brains spewed out all over the face of the intruder, my grandfather thought back to those words of wisdom he learned on Fox news about how pussy-like the liberals were on crime.
"Bet those liberal bastards will think twice about breaking into my home heh ma?! Ma? Ma?! Hey wake up?!"
Yeah. Grandpa's tough on crime! Make sure they don't escape is the number one priority!!
MYOB'
.
The whole world has turned into the West Bank, apparently, as we all adopt the tactics that are working so very well for the Israelis.
Very nice to see you, Tena.
Off to the library, and farmers market. to get some reading and grub.
Gibson's room at Bellevue is waiting for him. Seriously, this guy is unbound.
Act
responsible. I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have
been shot. It's up to everybody to give the police the least amount of shit these
days.
Ô¿Ô | 07.23.05 - 4:42 pm | #
Fuck you.
You know what? The stupid beret
I wore to the Atrios meet and
greet a while back? Some of the
folks here thought it was cute.
I personally didn't get it.
But my mom freaked -- she told
me yesterday don't wear it -- you
look like a Muslim. You'll get
into trouble.
Fuck you.....
I see you picked up a bunch of the "really big paintbrushes" at the arts&crafts store today, bub.
And that same broad brush hasn't been applied to me? I don't think "coppers" are always wrong. I do not think they were racist and wanted to blow away a brown-skinned person wearing a parka.
Act responsible. I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have been shot.
Oh yeah, innocent people never get killed by the cops. Huh uh, never happens. Act right and you never have to worry. Unless you look like someone who might have done something, and it might have been something really wrong that the person did. Maybe.
Jayzuz.
This is insane. We live in the GODDAMN AGE OF TERRORISM. Get it? I'll err on the officers involved.
Oh, right.
This is the age of COPS ARE ALLOWED TO SUMMARILY EXECUTE PEOPLE FOR WEARING JACKETS.
You make no fucking sense.
God. Get some post-9/11 therapy, please. It's clear that there are a bunch of people who either became unhinged after the WTC attack, or finally felt liberated to express their inner psychopath.
In either case, sorry, throwing out the FOUNDATIONS OUR LEGAL SYSTEMS, such as innocent until proven guilty and no excessive force, is not an appropriate response to terrorism, you idiot.
Why is it "the age of terrorism" anyway, you naive fool? Terrorism has existed around the globe for decades, if not centuries. It only fucking counts now since it happened to New York, the Pentagon, and London's train system?
Goddamn self-centered blindered lunatic. Terrorism isn't something that was created on September 11, 2001 and which only happens to Americans. If your "age of terrorism" really exists, please, do tell us when it began, you cowardly, snivelling terrorism victim.
We live in the AGE OF TERRORISM
Dude has been spoonfed bullshit for so long, he cries out for more...
"More pleese mummy, tastes just like chocolate ice-cream!!"
The "age of terrorism" is just a bunch of recycled garbage primed to scare you and make you feel impotent and get you accepting a police state and our leaders as "Saviors."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
art...1704834,00.html
Read it dweeb.
Three-quarters of the crap the terror-scared writes sounds like parody to me, but it's not.
But my mom freaked -- she told
me yesterday don't wear it -- you
look like a Muslim. You'll get
into trouble.
Fuck you.....
steve simels
That's my fault?
(and yes, I know - it's Argentina.)
Don't cry for wt, it's Argentina...
Where have you been, Eli? After 9/11, many darker-skinned people were killed in the US by yahoos like these. Some victims were Hispanic, some were Sikhs, some were various nationalities from the Middle East and Asia, etc.
Well, that was more misguided payback bullshit. But now I'm worried that Gibson and similar cheerleaders are going to implicitly encourage gun-toting troglodytes to take terrorism prevention into their own hands. Kinda like the present-day Minutemen.
Maybe we should be shot for not conforming to the norm.
Not again!
[/Daffy Duck]
maybe this explains why the man was running from 20 (mostly) white guys chasing him:
http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.c...-
name_page.html
So - lemme get this straight.
When it's dark-skinned people in the 'hood or other countries acting all "barbaric", it's proof of their subhuman nature and all they understand is force and we gotta kill them before they kill us.
BUT -
when it's white guys in Britain or the U.S. who're acting "barbaric", it's considered heroic and brave and incredible and something we gotta do now 'cause 9/11 changed everything and we gotta fight dirty to be pure&clean.
Is that about right?
Pere Ubu
-Stay close to your mailbox, a contract from Fox News is on its way to you!
This is insane. We live in the GODDAMN AGE OF TERRORISM. Get it?
Damn. Seem like only yesterday that we were being told how we lived in the Age of Aids, so all good xtian white men should go out and beat the shit out of those damned faggots who spread it.
Gonna suck for all sort of people (lie me) if Fox ever announces that we are living in the Age of Angry Psychotic Dangerous White Guys....
And that same broad brush hasn't been applied to me? I don't think "coppers" are always wrong.
Who said that?
I didn't know who John Gibson is so I googled his image. This is one of his images that came up...Weird guy.
How did I miss this?
Five in the noggin is fine. Don't complain that sounds barbaric. We're fighting barbaric.
And we all know, the only civilized response to barbarians, is to be more barbaric than they are.
That's how we prove they're barbaric, and we're civilized.
maybe this explains why the man was running from 20 (mostly) white guys chasing him:
http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.c...- name_page.html
I wonder if the mob were Millwall or Arsenal fans??
"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005," police said on Saturday.
Glad they're satisfied, though a tad too late.
"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."
Remember Eric von Stroheim as the German prison commander, telling the French prisoner that got shot "Je regrette, monsieur"?
Tena - I was thinking something very similar, about turning us all into Palestinians, everywhere. There isn't anywhere left to go to escape this madness, either.
So now the British police are chasing down brown-skinned people and executing them out of racism? I don't buy it.
To keep Biden off the Sunday morning gasbag shows, I propose the DNC pass the "Healthy Hair Transplant and Capped Teeth Speech Limitation Initiative 2005" or something like that.
Don't cry for wt, it's Argentina...
Satan
Dad, is that you?
Oh yeah, innocent people never get killed by the cops. Huh uh, never happens
Paging Amidou Diallo.
Oh yeah, innocent people never get killed by the cops. Huh uh, never happens
Paging Amidou Diallo.
Incog, c'mon, go back and *read* the post, and *read* the comments. Think about how, in the heat of the moment, when the adrenalin kicks in, how easy it is to make the *wrong* split-second decision- police and suspect alike.
Gibson doesn't have that excuse- he's in an airconditioned office where the odds of him ever being in a similar situation are nil, playing tough guy before he knows all the facts.
He's the real problem.
Click here for Malkin's round of the rightwing response.
I almost miss the days of randy weaver.
Things are jumping in Tucson - thanks for kicking out the Minutemen btw.
Well, I can't take any credit for that personally.
So now the British police are chasing down brown-skinned people and executing them out of racism? I don't buy it.
I doubt it, but I have to wonder how many white people left that block of flats that day without getting executed.
Whoa--did I ever venture into a shitstorm of troll-fueled fast posting
I just thought that my little comment on cops being not-so-trigger happy made sense.
But that now seems disputable--cops should be even more rigger-happy.
I'm old and out of the times
AO:
I think that I will vote for Biden in the primaries. He seems reasonable, and wont offend the swing voter
if Fox ever announces that we are living in the Age of Angry Psychotic Dangerous White Guys....
It IS the Age of Angry Psychotic Dangerous White Guys. But they're the ones setting the agenda for who the enemy is.
pie - thanks. I survived the two HOA annual meetings, back to back. I had considered just hiring someone to beat the shit out of me instead. But I have to admit that the meetings went better than the ones we've had the last 5 years did because a lot of the jackasses we had out here have sold.
However, I did end up secretary of one HOA despite begging not to be, since I'm secretary of Friends of the Library and secretary of the PAC in Dallas. No one else would do it. *sigh*
Maybe we should be shot for not conforming to the norm.
patriotboy
Fuckin' A! Arright, everbody line up!
I'm a little uneasy about this perceived "liberal" knee-jerk response blaming police officers. I don't want to be associated with that.
my mom freaked -- she told
me yesterday don't wear it -- you
look like a Muslim.
Or rather, you'll look like Richard Thompson, who is, indeed, a beret-wearing Muslim.
Btw, I have a very nice MP3 of Richard & Linda doing 'Dimming of the Day' from an '81 BBC session...
When is Rove going to be tackled?
Granted the pressure they were under, I can understand the cops shooting the Brazilian man. Gibson, I can't understand. I'm mortally certain that the British police are absolutely mortified about this tragic event and not just because they may be in legal trouble. Decent people don't go around celebrating the killing of human beings.
how to conform to the norm:
when he comes into the bar yell: "norm!"
ask "what would you say to a beer?"
he will reply: "hello, beautiful."
all will be well.
So now the British police are chasing down brown-skinned people and executing them out of racism? I don't buy it.
Oh, okay, so why ARE they chasing down and executing innocent brown-skinned people?
No one else would do it. *sigh*
Sounds familiar.
Well, I can't take any credit for that personally.
Kiva Oraibi - No, I reckon they were unprepared for the heat. And the itchy stuff. And the dryness. And the sun. Probably didn't like the take-out much either.
Speaking of which, time to make the enchiladas.
Particularly depressing that the wingnuts need to be told that 'Asian' means 'South Asian' in British parlance. Yes, Michelle and Jesse, just think of them as 'Pakis'. Ugh.
Decent people don't go around celebrating the killing of human beings.
Or making excuses for the error.
I'm a little uneasy about this perceived "liberal" knee-jerk response blaming police officers.
Me too. It might make them hesitate the next time they tackle someone and summarily execute him with 5 well placed shots to the head.
Act
responsible. I swear, I just know if he would have acted right, he wouldn't have
been shot. It's up to everybody to give the police the least amount of shit these
days.
Ô¿Ô | 07.23.05 - 4:42 pm | #
If this is actually you -- i.e,
you're not being name-stolen --
then go fuck yourself.
Fuckin' A! Arright, everbody line up!
Yeah, go ahead, act a fool these days. Wear a parka and run from the police in the subway.
And if it turns out ultimately that he had nothing to do with anything, no doubt there will be hell to pay. But the police say he was linked to the terror probe, so let's wait and see.
Still waiting, John. Still waiting.
I'm a little uneasy about this perceived "liberal" knee-jerk response blaming police officers. I don't want to be associated with that.
Ô¿Ô | 07.23.05 - 5:01 pm | #
because you are not paying attention. this is primarily about gibson and people of his ilk.
ilk. i like that word.
all in all, the british police have done a pretty good job, and at least officially have come out pretty quickly and labeled this mistake as the tragedy it is. for wich, i'm sure, gibson considers them pussies. "All of this trumps any of my other complaints that the Brits weren't making the right noises about fighting terror."
please, let me hear you defend him. please. please. or just shut up, specs.
Ô¿Ô , how was he supposed to know they were police?
This is insane. We are allowing a small band of jihadists to completely undo what we always considered civilized societies with civil rights that we fought for over hundreds of years. Illegal searches, rounding up and illegal detention of citizens exercising their right to assemble, illegal detention and torture of suspected terrorists (including children), execution without due process for wearing a parka. What's next.
No doubt in my mind but OBL has won.
Decent people don't go around celebrating the killing of human beings.
Or making excuses for the error.
or work for faux news.
Tena - I was thinking something very similar, about turning us all into Palestinians, everywhere. There isn't anywhere left to go to escape this madness, either.
mena
This has been a fantasy of the right wing Likud Party in Israel and AIPAC and the conservative pro-Israeli lobby in the US.
The idea that we could be led by the nose into a sustained land war in the MIddle East is something I thought I would never see. Blame it on the US neoCons and the most dangerously simple minded President in the History of the US.
As Brent Scowcroft said "George W Bush is wrapped around Ariel Sharon's little finger".
Every "terrorist" has said the attacks are about US Middle East Policy but that can't even be addressed in this country without being called an anti-Semite. No, all we hear is "they hate us because they hate our freedom BS".
Look forward to 30 years or more of endless and deadly tit for tat warfare.
No doubt in my mind but OBL has won.
Looks like it.
...go ahead, act a f--
ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Ô¿Ô , how was he supposed to know they were police?
WHy, they were running after him waving guns and yelling.
They HAD to be police. Or, maybe, a lynch mob. Nah, lynch mobs are all polite and stuff. Only police run after you and yell.
I'm still waiting for someone to give pie a gun and charge her with preventing suicide bombers.
Thats right cory. Using this "logic" all those gays should have had their heads blown off.
All them brown folk better not do anything suspicous or the poor under pressure police will be perfectly justified in shooting them. Am I right folks? WE LIVE IN THE AGE OF TERRRORISM!!!!!!!
And don't anybody blame those poor cops!
General, sir, you are without peer.
Don't think of it as an unlawful execution. Think of it as the police freeing him from the tyranny of an intact cranium
Give dave a gun and put him in charge of protecting us.
I'm a little uneasy about this perceived "liberal" knee-jerk response blaming police officers.
No-one's 'blaming' them. We're pointing out that Urban Warrior John Gibson is taking glee in it, when the officers involved are probably being reassigned to counselling and have been suspended from gun authorisation, regardless of who the person shot happened to be.
Gibson is yer classic chickenhawk fuckhead. I bet he got a stiffy just thinking about it, when in truth he'd crap himself on the spot if he faced such a situation.
A handful of shots are fired by London officers every year. There have been a handful of mistaken shootings in the past decade. Every incident involving armed police in the UK is regarded as a subject for inquiry, whether or not it's mistaken or the situation demands it. It's considered, in most cases, as a failure: the aim is never to have to use the damn things.
We are allowing a small band of jihadists to completely undo what we always considered civilized societies with civil rights that we fought for over hundreds of years.
or to put it more succintly, one shitty day in September and over 200 years of liberal democracy goes down the drain.
I'm still waiting for someone to give pie a gun and charge her with preventing suicide bombers.
see, that is the simplemindedness we are talking about. giving anyone a gun is not going to prevent suicide bombings.
sigh. lost cause. complete lack of understanding, intelligence, practicallity and humanity, all hiding behind a dumb pair of specs.
Yeah, we wouldn't want to sully any liberal rep by implying that UK cops might be a bit too trigger-happy.
That would imply that they're more like NYC cops than they are, or Florida cops with Tasers.
Ask the Irish in the Six Counties just how sensible the Brit cops are, absent any clear provocation. Not
Btw, I have a very nice MP3 of Richard & Linda doing 'Dimming of the Day' from
an '81 BBC session...
pseudonymous in nc | 07.23.05 - 5:01 pm | #
Well, if you want to send it to
me I probably wouldn't say no....
Now the officers were a "lynch mob"?
Give me a fucking break.
Okey-doke -- gotta rawk awn. Shower and feedbag are due, then off to party with strangers this evening.
.
shorter specs: kill everyone, i'm scared shitless.
To keep Biden off the Sunday morning gasbag shows, I propose the DNC pass the "Healthy Hair Transplant and Capped Teeth Speech Limitation Initiative 2005" or something like that.
Ah, Biden, the Great Capitulator.
And that same broad brush hasn't been applied to me?
I see, since on some occasions someone has made inaccurate wildly sweeping generalizations about you, that it is OK for you to do the same.
But then what do I know, I am just a liberal, hetero male. But one of my best friends who happens to be gay is sitting in my livingroom, so what do I know.
.
You know, there is no such thing as "other people" anymore... just strawmen to hate and boogeymen to fear...
OT - Dan Savage has a great piece from his forthcoming book on this week's This American Life on NPR. It's about the discussion he had with his 6-year-old about why he and his partner aren't married even though they love each other and how he probably won't grow up to be gay like his dads even if he really wants to. It's funny and sweet - check your local listings or download it later.
Now, back to the arguments.
1) Gibson is a supercilious, and disengenuous, tool
2) The shooting appears to be a completely predictable consequence of the adopted policy. The Brits are likely to address whether it should continue in a much more reasonable manner than we would.
3) Based on the available information, the only conclusion I can reach for sure is that the whole situation sucks up one side and down the other.
ONE FOR THE WINGNUTS……………….
Your Dear leader is very friendly with the Italian’s. But the wing nuts are going to be ape shit when they hear the news out of Italy today.
Inter Milan, one of Italy’s biggest football teams have cancelled their tour of England because of the bombings in London. Mayor Ken Livingstone (not from wing nut central) has accused the Italians of letting the terrorists win.
So, stand by for an O’Riley special on dumping Italian wine and pasta. Will the wing nuts stop buying their Ferraris?
If you are a brown person acting suspicously, you deserve to get shot. Sorry, but it's the age we live in.
Ô¿Ô , how was he supposed to know they were police?
Dodging the question, mate?
I'm not worried about suicide bombers. But I'm not so naive to think that we're any less likely to have another attack than any other country. What grieves me is that the actions of Dear Leader have contributed to thousands of needless deaths and a bigger threat.
It really grieves me. But it also infuriates me. I have no patience for little men like you.
Now the officers were a "lynch mob"?
Give me a fucking break.
Good point. A bunch of white guys takling a brown person and then shooting him in the head five times can hardly be called a "lynch mob."
But if five in an innocent noggin will make just one terrorist think twice, I'm all for it.
John Gibson |
Unlikely though it is that this is really "John Gibson", I just appreciate him volunteering to be the next innocent one shot to further this theory. Alway nice to see people willing to walk the talk, or whatever that saying is.
Name released:
A police spokesman named the dead man as Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year-old electrician who had been living in London for the last three years.
Wait -- why would an ELECTRICIAN have WIRES in his pockets?
Must be a SUICIDE BOMBER.
A.
Click here for Malkin's round of the rightwing response.
I almost miss the days of randy weaver.
Atrios
What's even more entertaining are the ads for the anti-Commie T shirts down the left column on her homepage.
Am I to understand that mainland Chinese Commies are not cool and that the ACLU likes Commies more than the vast majority of American CEO who outsource their jobs to those same Commies in China. God are these people insane!
I have nothing to do with "Urban Warrior John Gibson."
I don't know anything about him. I don't like the first response to blame officers which I've seen here. I once considered myself a liberal but y'all are going off the deep end.
shorter specs: kill everyone, i'm scared shitless.
And here I thought I was a misanthrope.
Based on what I've read so far, I suspect (even under UK laws) the officers won't be criminally cited. Note, please, that I've not got access to all the information so I could be mistaken. But the key is "reason to believe".
The officers were observing a block of flats in regard to the prior bombings - both sets.
-- A person emerged who bore general resemblance to previous bombers. (Please, I know Brazilians aren't Pakistani. I've also, locally, watched many friends from the Middle East tell folk they're Mexican, usually with little further difficulty. It's like differentiating Koreans from Chinese or Nords from Celts - easy if you've familiarity and time, elsewise difficult. end of this digression.)
-- The person who emerged is wearing a heavy coat and carrying (allegedly) a large backpack. Yes, I know the UK isn't like Texas in the summer. But MOST of the locals are NOT wearing heavy parkas. And the heavy parka/backpack combination matches the MO of the previous suicide bombers.
The officers attempt to stop the individual. Now things get shaky. First, nowhere do I see any claims that they had guns drawn at the time, which means all such claims are overbearing noise. Second, however, it was allegedly more than one individual. Thus it's quite possible the individual feared for his person and/or property if not life and fled. EXCEPT: some of those trying to stop him were wearing uniforms. So we've a mix of uniform and non-uniformed personnel. So despite the presence of obvious official he ran.
So, the attempt to stop him failed, and he's running, and police are trying to stop him. He runs down the stairs, jumps the turnstile, and dashes toward a crowded train. We now have a conflict in reports. Some say he was still on the platform, others say he was in the train. He tripped, or he was thrown to the ground after being cornered (and having time to look around, frightened and desparate). Pardon, but I cannot and will not defend multiple actions. What I gather of all this is, however, that he was NOT stopping - not until he was either tackled or individuals threw themselves upon him.
Now someone (implied sneeringly) asked why the police would be hot on his tail (two or three steps away) if they thought he might have a bomb. It's called responsibility. In some circumstances it becomes labeled as heroism - doing what you feel must be done despite fear of the consequences.
At this instant the perception was that they had a bomber who was trying to get into a place to maximize his bomb's effectiveness, and that they had to try to stop him. It is, and can be no less than, perception. And that will be the defense, and it is likely to be sufficient based upon the facts at hand. I'll give an unknown for example that would change the equation, though. If the observing officers knew the suspicious flat and the victim came from another flat, some officer or officers are going to face various charges - it's their failure that led to the individual's death.
I'd like to respond to two items above before I go, even though they're a touch of a digression. First, someone quoted how the person looked around desparately seeking escape. I would ask how someone wanting to escape to blow up a bomb would appear differently. People wanting to escape capture are probably going to look pretty much the same regardless of their reason for wanting the escape.
Second was a remark from anonymous in nc. That he would have been willing to accept a suicide bomb if it meant no more asian youths would be killed. I assume he means no more non-white individuals would be shot and is not being racist himself here, but that's secondary. Instead I find myself amazed at the callousness that would be willing to allow another 56 dead if it meant the police hadn't fired.
Again I note it was not an easy decision. I'm disappointed - no, I'm frustrated and angered - that the police were unable to stop the individual before he entered a crowd. I'm equally frustrated and angered that they hadn't been able to narrow the suspicious origin to a single or even a few flats instead of a block. But accepting those points, I'm afraid that the certain belief that the individual was trying to kill a lot of citizens the officers were sworn to protect made the use of the gun defensible. Not acceptable. Not "right". Defensible.
I still await a suggestion of a policy that accomplishes two mutually contradictory objectives: 1) prevent a suspected suicide bomber in the midst of a potential target from triggering his device, while; 2) not killing the suspected suicide bomber. Remember that a large proportion of bombs don't require reaching in any way, but merely squeezing something already in the hand, so the solution to part one needs to cope with this point as well. Me, I'm too unimaginative. I'll applaud workable solutions, but will simply ignore the implausible.
Maybe I'm the dumbest rock in the garden, but why, if there was a potential bombing threat, would the cops have let this guy anywhere near the station? There should have been a containment plan that would have blocked the suspect from any egress from the building at all.
More to the point, why weren't there officers in uniform available for the containment? The plan, if there was one, was FUBAR. Too late for the unfortunate suspect, though maybe there will be some better procedures that come out of this tragedy.
Shorter douchebag - I mean, John Gibson - "I used to think the Brits were pussies, but when they shot that guy five times - whoa! Five in the noggin' - HELL YEAH!"
First of all, do ya think FUX could spare a few bucks and send their trained monkeys to school for some remedial grammar(They go about things a lot more quietly than us?)? As for the fact that it turned out the dead guy was innocent, well, FUX will just refer this to the Dept of Change the Subject, and Gibson will move on to the next "Missing White Woman" story - or something.
I don't think "coppers" are always wrong. I do not think they were racist and wanted to blow away a brown-skinned person wearing a parka.
Ô¿Ô
OK, this has all the earmarks of a fake Incog, but I'll bite.
Umm, if the victim wasn't a "brown skinned man" but a "known homosexual", your attitude would change in how many nanoseconds? 10? That many, hmm? I mean, those cops are like 90%+ heterosexual, right? Some of 'em maybe even more than that. Would seem pretty cut & dried, no?
Oh, never mind.
No doubt in my mind but OBL has won.
==
Panic is what seems to be being demanded of us. We joke about taking to the streets. My fear is that we will be forced to, by events. Idiotic, ignorant attitudes like those Incognito is expressing will do nothing to help this situation. Forgetting our basic decency and humanity, and that of other people, will only result in chaos. Then the *terrorists* really do win. Fuck this.
Even if the guy had been one of the bombers, killing him would have done exactly nothing about terrorism.
Turning into barbarians is not helping the situation - that's what the Israelis have let happen to them and so far - how many years now? - it has done not one thing to stop the bombings. I wish to hell that people in power would look for some new ideas, because the old ones are just getting us nothing but a lot of innocent dead people.
Oh, John Gibson, the guy who wrote that. I thought it was funny. I read the "punchline" and sobered up some. He probably did, too. He's just being a dumb guy.
Jean Charles de Menezes? That almost sounds French. Close enough.
Kirk Spencer, read the next post after yours.
If this guy was perceived as a threat, why in God's name didn't they stop him as soon as he left the flat?
This actually is beginning to really smell.
Am I to understand that mainland Chinese Commies are not cool and that the ACLU likes Commies more than the vast majority of American CEO who outsource their jobs to those same Commies in China.
I made a comment the other day on a NPR story that mentioned China's "booming" economy.
And here I thought Communism destroyed economies, not made them "boom"! More up-is-downism, I guess...
Open Season on Brazilians?
Granted the pressure they were under, I can understand the cops shooting the Brazilian man.
What's one Brazilian, more or less, but:
"Sky News television said there were unconfirmed reports the man may have been Brazilian. But police declined to give any immediate details of the man's identity."
What if he was from Omaha? Or Flushing?
specs is being deliberately obtuse. he must be, no one could be accidently that stupid.
sigh.
let's get back to the two main points:
1. gibson takes unholy glee in the death of other human beings. victims of bombings make his network more popular. victims of wrongful shootings by cops show we mean business. public execution of terror suspects is just plain fun.
2. rove is a douche.
I am particularly interested in and supportive of the nomination of Karen Hughes to be undersecretary of state for public diplomacy ... I believe that she is highly qualified because of her professional background, and, importantly, enjoys the full confidence of the president and the secretary of state.
thanks joe biden. with democrats like you...
I'll applaud workable solutions, but will simply ignore the implausible.
So you agree with John Gibson?
Whom are you arguing with?
Instead I find myself amazed at the callousness that would be willing to allow another 56 dead if it meant the police hadn't fired.
Read The Bonfire of the Vanities. And fuck right off. Have you spent any time in London at all?
I was driving along I-75 yesterday.
This van passed me by with a confederate battle flag sticker on it's back window, and a "The South will rise again! sticker on it's bumper"
I was getting pretty sick and tired of all these liberal traitors sporting anti-american stickers on their vehicles so I drove up along side the van and slammed into his lane, driving him off the road.
Naturally he survived the crash, as if any liberal confederate wannabe is smart enough to know when to die when they're told to. He pulls his fat ass out of his van, greesy white t-shirt and worn bluejeans, spoiled with his own blodd, and starts screaming at me! I told him that this all-american yankee is tired of traitorous confederates spitting on our flag by sporting confederate battle flags on their cars and trucks. So I pulled out my gun and shot him.
When the police arrived I had him tied to the hood of my car. Camera in hand, I had some Japanese tourists use it to take the photo which I fully intend to send to the Department of Homeland security as proof of my citizenship and dedication to protecting the country from the returning confederate south.
Once the japanese tourists finished taking my photo's, I took my camera, remarked that it was AMERICAN MADE, and then shot them too screaming "When you're nuked you STAY nuked Got it slanty?!!!!"
The cops were naturally pissed and pulled their guns, that is, until I showed them my NRA membership card which they then gave me the secret hand signal for 'thumbs up' and let me go my way.
Let this be a warning to all you people sporting dreams of seeing the south rise again. Never! Ever! Gonna happen when this all american soldier is on the job!
MYOB'
.
Umm, if the victim wasn't a "brown skinned man" but a "known homosexual", your attitude would change in how many nanoseconds?
Thanks "Norm" for asking. So gays are blowing the limbs off folks these days? It's that serious?
At times like this I,with some effort, recall the way I felt when Jimmy Carter and his wife walked, not rode, down Penn. Ave. at their inauguration.
Sooner or later, such an event will crystallize for a few hundred million people their recovered hope that tomorrow will improve upon, rather than mirror, yesterday. It will happen. It'll be out of the blue, as likely as not. And it'll bring tears to your eyes. COunt on it; perhaps even work for it.
re: john gibson and how he felt after reading the punchline:
he probably didn't read it. he is a vampire.
on 7/6, he wrote an article saying he wished that france had gotten the olympics because he would enjoy seeing terroist attacks in paris.
on 7/8 or so, he wrote an article not apologizing, but re-enforcing his first pile of dung - why should the brits have all the fun, lets see some frenchies blown up!
And here I thought Communism destroyed economies, not made them "boom"! More up-is-downism, I guess...
Pere Ubu
Don't forget that Republicans know how to run the Economy and Democrats don't!
I believe that she is highly qualified because of her professional background, and, importantly, enjoys the full confidence of the president and the secretary of state.
Actually, I think that's pretty funny and telling...
hee hee.
Ask the Irish in the Six Counties just how sensible the Brit cops are, absent any clear provocation. Not.
Bloody Sunday
Oh, John Gibson, the guy who wrote that. I thought it was funny.
i rest my case.
a public execution is never funny. not to humans.
The scary thing about living in "The Age of Terror" is that it is brought to us and orchestrated by our own government, with the able assistance of such luminaries as John Gibson and his buddies.
Maybe I'm the dumbest rock in the garden, but why, if there was a potential bombing threat, would the cops have let this guy anywhere near the station?
==
I asked this up above. I also asked if it's usual for police to tackle someone they think has a bomb. Yeah, it stinks, pie.
Good point. A bunch of white guys takling a brown person and then shooting him in the head five times can hardly be called a "lynch mob."
Gen. JC Christian, patriot
Right.
For it to be a lynch mob they would have had to have hung him.
/snark
This guy was probably just an illegal alien. I see lots more of this type of fuck up in our futures.
Good point. A bunch of white guys takling a brown person and then shooting him in the head five times can hardly be called a "lynch mob."
Gen. JC Christian, patriot
Right.
For it to be a lynch mob they would have had to have hung him.
/snark
This guy was probably just an illegal alien. I see lots more of this type of fuck up in our futures.
At times like this I,with some effort, recall the way I felt when Jimmy Carter and his wife walked, not rode, down Penn. Ave. at their inauguration.
then they did to carter what they later did to clinton.
Hey, asshole, the British cops have admitted it was a collossal screw-up, probably one of the worst they've done in recent memory.
You mean law enforcement/government spokesmen in other countries apologize when they screw up? Sissies. If this happened in 'Murica, the cops and BushCo would not back down, apologize or feel a second of remorse.
Let this be a warning to all you people sporting dreams of seeing the south rise again. Never! Ever! Gonna happen when this all american soldier is on the job!
A blast from the Past...
Save your Dixie cups, the South shall rise again!
.
Also, if Gibson thinks he's being oh-so-British with 'noggin', then I hope that he spends eternity having to watch a rolling loop of Dick van Dyke in 'Mary Poppins'.
Hey steve simels--I'm getting very envious of all the stuff you send to others after I read your columns in the 70s and even bought or avoided at your behest (Well, not too much--I never bought Bad Company, and I did buy Ramones, but you get the point).
So how do I get one of those burned CDs you hand out to flirty ladies? I want one filled with Dylan Attic tapes, Springsteen in a depressive mode and Debby Harry stutter-singing because steve simels is in the audience.
At times like this I,with some effort, recall the way I felt when Jimmy Carter and his wife walked, not rode, down Penn. Ave. at their inauguration.
back when we had delusions that Presidents were the servants of the people, not some sort of royalty who just happened to get elected.
Why does it always keep gravitating toward fags with you liberals? I'm leaving liberalism behind. I see now with you heteros that you're now putting a hetero fundie on the SCOTUS. We will never have equal rights and this country is spiraling down the crapper so what the fuck. WHOO HOO! Let's all go down together.
ProfWombat, I hope you are right. But I'm not that hopeful.
back when we had delusions that Presidents were the servants of the people, not some sort of royalty who just happened to get elected.
Pere Ubu
Or a carefully managed and manicured mascot. Started with Reagan, perfected with Bush II.
So gays are blowing the limbs off folks these days? It's that serious?
somebody missed The Electric Company the day they covered the word "analogy".
Good point. A bunch of white guys takling a brown person and then shooting him in the head five times can hardly be called a "lynch mob."
Gen. JC Christian, patriot
More like a Mississippi tea party!
MYOB'
.
Why does it always keep gravitating toward fags with you liberals?
Because you combine a persecution complex the size of Alaska with a ridiculous lack of empathy towards other minorities that, say, mistakenly get shot in Tube stations?
"He's just being a dumb guy"
For crying out loud... Incog, there's situations where I KNOW you would never accept that excuse.
Just for a lark I Gooooogled "Kratos" and "dead man switch". Kratos by itself gives articles about the 5 in the noggin tactic, but nobody seems to join the two. How the hell is any number of bullets in any part of the body going to stop a suicider with a dead man switch? Maybe the Israelis just like it up close & personal?
mr. simels: you have post.
Leave it to Atrios to be more upset with Gibson or the British police than he is for the people that murdered 88 people yesterday and injured scores more.
Leave it to Atrios to be more upset with Gibson or the....
yaawwwwwwwwn. snore.
You know, Matthew Shepard shouldn't have acted all faggy in that bar. He was just asking for it.
</rolls eyes>
Kirk, I agree with what you're saying 100% but what pisses me off (and a lot of other people on this board, I would think) is the "Hell yeah, shoot 'em in the head!" cheerleading by the trained monkeys in the AmeriKKKan media. What happened was, as it turns out, was a tragedy (whether or not it will have prevented an even bigger tragedy is something we'll never know). What we do know is that an innocent man is dead, and that's the way the story should be treated. I guess I should be grateful Gibson didn't say "bust a cap in his ass!" - I really hate it when lame white guys use hip hop gangsta slang!
Do you suppose we'd get in trouble if we mailed a similar vest to Gibson and a fake ticket to London?
"Leave it to Atrios to be more upset with Gibson or the British police than he is for the people that murdered 88 people yesterday and injured scores more."
I suggest you donate your body to the cause and allow the police to shoot you five times in the head. You may be innocent, but if you complain as the bullet splatters your brain on the pavement then it proves you're not american, hate freedom, and are undermining the war on terror by opposing the brit police the right to shoot you dead without probable cause.
MYOB'
.
Leave it to Cog to be totally fricken irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Leave it to Atrios to be more upset with Gibson or the British police than he is for the people that murdered 88 people yesterday and injured scores more
I'm sure you're just oozing with sympathy for those Egyptians.
Not that you could find Egypt on a map, though.
Because you combine a persecution complex the size of Alaska with a ridiculous lack of empathy towards other minorities that, say, mistakenly get shot in Tube stations?
pseudonymous in nc
That's bullshit. I have all the empathy in the world for everybody else. I don't have a problem with any group. I don't like those, because of their culture, society and monothiesm, are killing people in the West for those reasons.
And quite frankly, your attitude that those views should be tolerated, as we might "tolerate fags" is insulting.
I don't like those, because of their culture, society and monothiesm, are killing people in the West for those reasons.
They must be really stupid. After all, there are a billion of them sharing that culture, society and monothiesm and this is the best they can do.
Just when you think Haloscan is never going to be right again...the cookies are back!
And it's odd, I removed my email for the first "Norm" post, and it showed the Gravatar anyway. But who among us understands Haloscan, anyway?
Just don't run around in a parka in the Tube acting a fool. These officers are human beings, too.
Gen. Christian would you care to comment on the "London Flypaper Strategy"?
They must be really stupid. After all, there are a billion of them sharing that culture, society and monothiesm and this is the best they can do.
Gen. JC Christian, patriot
No, hold...
I'm a little uneasy about this perceived "liberal" knee-jerk response blaming police officers.
As opposed to what? The ACTUAL knee-jerk insane reaction from the extreme nutcase right freaktards like Gibson? Holy jebus b christ! Fuck already. These guys piss their pants and call for nuking religeous shrines for god's sake. These chicken hawk yellow pieces of diaper excrement get spooked and worked up by thier own whining and hooha over an innocent civilian having his brain matter forcebly removed - against his will I might add - and they want more.
These fucks are quivering with fear and they don't care what or who gets taken down - a nation or as many individuals as it takes for them to sleep snuggypoo in their little soldier boy pajamas at night.
It must have been a terrifying experience when they first realized that thier mommies could no longer protect them from all happenings in the world around them. It must have been sooooo fucking frightening to discover that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny weren't real that they lost their fucking minds.
And now they're in charge and every time they soil their Huggies - which is often - someone somewhere is gonna have to pay with a life. They are rabid bat shit fucking crazy with fear! Crazy with fear! Crazy!
And they mock you and they mock me and they ridicule everyone that won't share in their panic and histeria...because they don't, can't or won't stop to hammer out a sane response. And, because they're rabid bat shit fucking crazy!
They are unable to form a rational thought they are so paralyzed with fear. And, in their creeped out little world, if you don't understand it you must fear it and if you fear it then by god someone somewhere sure as hell better be giving up a life.
So, stop fearing the "perceived" and stand against the insane world of irrational fear and retribution these frightened little bastards are leading us into.
Gen. Christian would you care to comment on the "London Flypaper Strategy"?
That's a good point. If we don't fight the brown people there, we'll have to fight them here.
Good fucking grief.
Can someone please fire that nutcase Gibson now?
He's completely off his rocker.
just don't be a fool and run around on the Tube being all brown and foreign and stuff.
Just don't run around in a parka in the Tube acting a fool.
This doesn't sound like something a Louisiana boy would say.
Just sayin'.
Not all muslim countries do this. Most of those billions outside the middle east dont do that. Click on an enlargement of that picture and see that gay Iranian teen sobbing as he's murdered for being gay.
not some sort of royalty who just happened to get elected.
Or a carefully managed and manicured mascot.
That's what royalty IS! Haven't you been paying attention to Britain's royals?
General
I'm told Neidermeyer's son is in your officer corps. Is he a credit to his old man?
Thanks "Norm" for asking. So gays are blowing the limbs off folks these days? It's that serious?
Ô¿Ô
Ummm...Oh, never mind. Again. But thank you for answering. I think.
Maybe we should be shot for not conforming to the norm.
Norm -- the fat guy from Cheers? We all gotta act like him, now?
Oh, and it's always been the age of terrorism... The news out of London reminds me to go re-read Conrad's The Secret Agent.
Murdered for being a homosexual because of monotheism in the middle east.
Not all muslim countries do this.
That's certainly true.
Matthew Shepard.
They were murdered this week.
Just don't run around in a parka in the Tube acting a fool.
This doesn't sound like something a Louisiana boy would say.
Just sayin'.
pie
Just so.How many Louisiana boys even know what a parka is? Or the Tube, for that matter.
Draco:
Funny you should ask....
I was actually just burning
a comp for DWD of Dylan outtakes
and the Monks.....
They were murdered for being gay July 21 which was last Thursday.
They were murdered this week.
Then they join the countless other innocents that were also murdered this week.
The one gay Iranian teen was sobbing. This culture is what y'all defend? The "coppers" are to blame. Leave me the FUCK out of that.
This culture is what y'all defend? The "coppers" are to blame.
"fallacy of the undistributed middle", unless I'm mistaken.
Ô¿Ô, when you show as much *concern* for the mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters who have been murdered in Iraq because of the Bush/Blair wrongheaded policy, then we can talk.
For now, my outrage meter is pegged.
Sorry that my concerns for all people are not your concerns for a few.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with a number of you on some aspects of this one.
First, however, let me agree with you on a couple of the basic fundamentals of this situation. It was an absolutely tragic event, and a colossal mistake by the London police to kill a man who later turned out to be innocent.
Furthermore, it's horrible for people like Gibson to be cheering on this sort of behavior. I absolutely don't defend or condone that sort of thing. Gibson's article is really reprehensible, and calls to mind the sort of YEE HAW Wild West frontier justice mindset that people like him have.
However, here is where my opinion has to break away. One of the foremost things that stood out to me was not the man's apparent nationality or the clothing he was wearing, but the fact that he emerged from a flat that was already being monitored for possible connection to the events which had already occurred. This means that the police already had some reason to believe that individuals who lived in or frequented the building may have been involved already in the attacks.
Also, I'm hearing a lot about how the police were plainclothes officers. Do you really believe that the police never identified themselves once during the chase, or that they were acting wildly, or waving their weapons around?
One of the biggest questions I have is why the individual began to run in the first place. I can understand if he was scared, certainly, if a crowd of people came at me, I would be, too. But again, I can't imagine that twenty police officers all initially approached the man at once in a hostile manner.
Also, the police are required to act in the defense of the general public. In this situation, the police were faced with an unknown situation, with an unknown individual, who had already attempted to evade them, and who had emerged from suspicious circumstances, and exhibited suspicious behavior. When he stepped onto that subway train, the police were now faced with a situation in which the safety of the general public was called into immediate question.
It is regrettable, and it may seem wrong to many, but in those circumstances, an officer is called upon to put the safety of the general public over that of the suspect. Unfortunately, this does not leave many options open to the officers. The suspect must be removed from the area as quickly as possible. If the police believe, as it appears they did in this circumstance, that the suspect poses an imminent threat to the health of those around him, then the course of action which they took was the one they are required to take.
It pains me to think of it in these terms, but unfortunately, that is the way it is.
Let's take a moment to think of the alternative, wherein police are required to give every benefit of the doubt to the suspect, no matter the circumstance.
In this situation, yes, tackling and handcuffs would have certainly sufficed. But the police didn't know that, the other passengers on the subway didn't know that, and until the whole story came out, we didn't know that. Had he turned out to be a bomber, more people than him almost certainly would have died as a result, when the police tackled him and he detonated.
Think back to news reports and stories you've read or heard about in which there are tragedies similar to this one, in which innocent people are killed as a result of the police following protocol. The vast majority of these accidents could have been avoided if the suspects had simply complied with officers' instructions to them.
Likewise, think back to those stories you've heard wherein officers, by following protocol, have prevented a situation from becoming much worse than it already was. It's the worst sort of catch-22 for the police, and a situation that nobody should ever have to face.
Leave it to Atrios to be more upset with Gibson or the British police than he is for
the people that murdered 88 people yesterday and injured scores more.
Cog | Email | Homepage | 07.23.05 - 5:27 pm | #
Leave to Cog to be the biggest
fucking moral retard on the planet.
Get lost, shit stain.
Ok folks, NOW do you see what Incognito is really all about? How many more quotation marks around "Liberals" are you going to see before you realise that Incognito is not and never has been a left leaning poster? I still state he's a deliberate false identity created to try and discredit you all, to get racist and plainly stupid comments on the boards here.
As for the shooting, don't let him distract you from the main argument; That this has occured is understandable, if sad. Cheering that it has occured however is the work of an asshole... See how popular such words will be in Brazil right now. And that means we lose another battle in the fight against terrorism to the terrorists, as we make ourselves look uglier and uglier world wide.
So yeah, fuck you Incognito... liar and terrorism enabler.
OMGWTFBBQ, then why didn't they stop him before he got to the subway.
They could have diffused the situation the minute he left the flat.
Incidentally, Gibson's a total asshole for writing that dreck.
And then America's Nemesis shows up.
I'll see you all later.
That's very possible, pie, I want to know what happened there. What specifically caused him to start running?
All I can say, after reading this thread, is that fear can fuck up the nicest people, as well as the middlin' to not so.
Over used, I know, but chill, take a deep breath, yada, yada, yada.
An terrified innocent man was put to death by terrified armed men acting as arms of the law. Adrenaline and testerone overload? Who knows.
But, killing innocents, even those who run from the police, is not ususally accepted in civilized societies.
But, fear can make barbarians of us all.
I could think of a number of folks where five in the noggin would be all right.
John Gibson is one sick pup. In a just world, he will get his due.
If the Bush Crime family is really interested in fighting terrorism, how come a former terrorist from the al Dawa party is now the prime minister of Iraq.
Go back twenty years and Al Dawa was a terrorist organization that bombed american consulates and business interests in the Gulf States. They were closely allllied wth the other Iranian organization Hezbollah.
I guess they must have become freedom fighters sometime in the intervening years. They gave up bombs and mainly concentrated on throwing acid at woman's faces and leg that were not properly covered. This activity is still common in Iraq but we knowthat freedom is on the march
Mr. Gibson,
You are a Jerk Ass.
The dead man was Brazilian, and not connected in any way to the bombings, nor was he, himself, a bomber. Totally innocent.
You, Mr. Gibson, are NOT the Judge and jury in these things. Do you still stand behind those horrible words, Mr. Gibson?
‘Your Word,’ is sounding and smelling an awful lot like Fascism to me.
How ‘bout keeping your word to yourself from now on, you pig. We can surely do better without the likes.
How the fuck can you look yourself in the mirror, everyday? Let’s talk when you grow a conscience.
Sincerely yours,
Tony B.
Think about the sheer terror this man faced in his final minutes of life.
Well the guy was from Brazil so that might explain the parka (summer in London can be in the 60s).
A suicide bomber will likely use a deadman's switch so that killing him will set the bomb off. That negates the whole purpose of killing a suicide bomber to stop the bomb. Better to use a taser to force his muscles to contract so that he can't release the deadman's switch. (Think I saw this in a bad movie once.)
It is a waste of time to mention Gibson, much less watch him.
The Israelis rarely make this sort of catastrophic mistake. They must be very, very skilled at identifying terrorists. Perhaps they only teach that in the Advanced training course. A lot of condemnation for this screw up will give the Brits an incentive to learn just how that's done.
My Word: Look, if those students at Kent State didn't want to get shot down like dogs they shouldn't have been attending the university. And, to make matters worse, they were looking on to see what was happening. They should have known better than to have been looking on to see what was happening while attending their university. And, to make matters even more worse, they were standing out in the open between classes. Practically like waving a red cape in front of a bull.
Instead of standing in the open looking on to see what was happening while attending their university they should have assumed a surrender position and given themselves up to the law like any normal and good citizen should have.
So I say bravo Ohio National Guardsmen. You showed the world you had balls the size of Texas. Better safe than sorry. I'd rather have seen a few innocent students plugged than run the risk of having been overun by god knows what. Hell, it was scary scary - I mean really scary - times.
Now, I have to go change my Underoos - they seem to be all wet with piss.
Well the guy was from Brazil so that might explain the parka (summer in London can be in the 60s).
on a trip to hanoi a few years ago, driving in from the airport, many people were wearing parkas that i associate with minnesota when at most i had a jean jacket.
The Israelis rarely make this sort of catastrophic mistake. They must be very, very skilled at identifying terrorists.
Oh puhleeeeeeeeeeze.
Yah, the Israelis are just unbelievably successful in their fight against the Palestinian suicide bombers. Huge victories there, alright. Let them show us how it's done, so we can be just as much at risk as they are. Can't fucking wait.
moron.
If only Gibson could have the experience of being in another country and being chased by police and being...
I would say more, but I don't want to be like that sack of shit Gibson.
I want to know what happened there. What specifically caused him to start running?
OMGWTFBBQ | Email | 07.23.05 - 6:06 pm | #
maybe stories like this:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/ar...-
tension21.html
AND I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN...!!
pie - read my post, the one you referenced for me to read 'right after yours', and you'll see I had the same remark within it. The answer is we don't know why. I can come up with possibilities that work - such as "Just started the surveillance and he came out before everyone was in place" - but the reality is that I do not know why a containment plan wasn't in place. Neither does anyone else on this list that I've read at this point.
It was a tragedy. Agreed. It was also, however, human, and as I'm not a rightwinger I'll not insist that God should have Spoken and Told Them the man was innocent. Instead I'll grieve that people with best intentions and following rules meant to prevent worst cases suffered under the fact that mistakes happen.
Yes, condemn those celebrating his death. But I'm seeing a crapload of folk condemning the officers wholesale, and that grieves me just as much -- it speaks to a willing blindness I see far too frequently on the right.
wrt tena's post at 6:42 PM
tena, dear, clearly you can spell s-a-n-c-t-i-m-o-n-y, can you spell i-r-o-n-y ??
This is what I love about wingnuts...they are so fucking nonchalant about violence and death..as long as it is someone elses.
These are the same babies that whine about "the press" too...
Some weird dichotomy going on there. Old "five in the noggin"...sheeit.
Yeah, Sharon is soooo successuful getting those bad a-rabs, so successful that just a few days ago they killed some terr'ists and 12 innocent by-standers!
Collateral damage you know.
501st!
Jeebus with an AK-47! This is disgusting! - How big is this guys audience?
a la Ward Churchill, I sincerely believe the majority of the right think this way (if you can call it thinking).
the Brits will be out of Iraq and off al-queda's radar very shortly I suspect - who'll be left as a target?
On to the next thread...
...If I were a London cop I wouldn't think twice. The guy's dead.
Chuck
So at what point WOULD you think twice before taking a life?
I mean, we could just start shooting anyone not dressed appropriately for the season.
Burn down suspicious houses.
Where is it over the line for you?
I wasn't there...but from the early reports til now, it always sounded like the guy was under control.
If you think a second, if THIS becomes SOP for the police, all they have to do is have the bombers use "dead mans switches", then this same action would actually trip a bomb.
It is definitely tough being a cop in London right now, and I believe they had the right intentions, and according to their rules of engagement they were in bounds of it...but still, a life is lost. Who knows why he ran, could be he didn't know they were cops, could be he had some other motive, could be he was nuts.
The fuckhead Gibson though...I imagine those cops are probably going through hell right now, knowing they ended a life of someone that wasn't a terrorist. I imagine they probably wouldn't find this poor excuse for a human being all that funny with his little "wit".
The problem is cops don't have a great sense of smell. But bears do.
does anybody have any doubt that if there were an emergency situation occurring in John Gibson's presence, that he would be the first person to run the other way in total fear? I'm sure the guy is a fucking coward through and through, and like O"Reilly, tries to overcome his own feelings of inadequacy by talking tough. What a fucking idiot and low-life he is.
Gibson seem unusually fascinated with "cojones." He worshipped Roves "cojones" in his Rove rant, and now he bows before the "cojones" of the British cops who killed an innocent person. I'm seeing a pattern and it involves an absence of Gibson's "cojones." Perhaps he's sending out a secret message: He wants someone to share their "cojones" with him so he can have some? Sheesh John, this is getting embarrassing...enough with the "cojones" already...man worships man, ..what's next, John? Man on dog?
I am fascinated with cojones because mine fell off when my mommy told me I was going to a new and faroff place called kindergarten. Man, those were really really frightening times. Ever since, I've had to compensate the best I can.
Hannity beats me up in the hallway. O jeez, I just scart myself...time for new Pampers.
Gison is a cowardly fuck.
I'll bet he's never been around people shot and bleeding, let alone pulled the trigger on aother human being.
Wheterh or not they are prosecuted, those cops have to be going through hell right now and will probably be in therapy for years.
Shooting a human being at close range is a messy, gut-wrenching, mind-fucking act for police, even when the person 'deserves it' in their minds.
No-one but a psychopath finds it anything but revolting and extremely traumatic. And no-one but a sick, cowardly fuck would cheer it on.
Wait and see?? John Gibson is 12 hours behind. They fellow was an innocent, executed in public.
Being in England right now, I have to say that the British concept of "hot and humid" that drove the large-cajone'ed policeman to unload the contents of his weapon into the poor Brazilian man is definitely skewed. It's hit 30 C (that's... 90 F?) once or twice I think. And the humidity is nothing.
Sure not like those West Virginia summers I used to have, what with 105 F and 98% humidity.
Anyway, this whole thing is a fricking mess.
Interesting. Righties like Gibson weren't so gung-ho about the gummint summarily executing innocent civilians when it was Janet Reno giving the orders....
Incog, if you're having trouble grasping why we find your reasoning not only specioous, but offensive, consider:
"And jsut look at the way she was dressed! She was out drinking, and had a reputation as being promiscous! SHe was asking for it!"
Because that's exactly waht you're saying.
Do I think those cops are racists? no. rapists? no. Do I think that there could possibly have been another alternative? I wasn't there, I'm not a cop. But if the words "(X) was asking for it" are uttered in mey presence... well, let's just say that if you act right and keep a civil tounge in your head, you'll be fine.
So I'm saying they were asking for it now?
whatever
Its long past time to put the adults in charge. Team Bush has bankrupted itself and has ham stringed its allied leadership. Team Bush must go.
Yeah, but! The bravery! I mean, come on!
...my other complaints that the Brits weren't making the right noises about fighting terror.
Note Gibson's priorities, which being on Fox-Pravda, slavishly follow Bush-approved groupthink.
Who cares about effective counter-terrorism *actions*, what counts is making the right *noises* - hee haw rootin' tootin' borderline-retarded rhetoric about "resolve", "evildoers" and "Freedom-haters".
The Bush MalAdministration -- too stupid to fight terrorism.
I almost wrote the clueless mouth piece: Do you want a bandage for that? You're hemorhagging stupidity.
But then I thought- I really don't care to give that stupid git the time of day.
I copied the first story I read on this because somehow, I knew that they had nothing on this man. Maybe if Faux spent their time going after the "root" of the recent IED problem: Bush. Pull out the Bushes.
John Gibson and Carl Cameron
John Gibson shares the distinction of being the ugliest news presenter on American television with his fellow ugly journalist Carl Cameron.
And, yet, between the two of them, I find it difficult to discern which is the uglier -- Gibson or Cameron?
I would, nevertheless, have to vote for Carl Cameron, whose soft-boiled-egg eyes inspire little to zero confidence that anything he could possibly say might be true and accurate, let along "fair and balanced."
But, then there is Gibson's hair treatment...why do they make it so difficult?
I ask you!
~~~~~~~~~~
Dear god...the poor bloke was a Brazilian.
"The man emerged from a block of flats...."
Life for a PIZZA delivery guy can be a real bitch.....
From what I've read, everyone was in a panic. The British cops panicked. The guy being chased panicked. But when guys with guns panic...watch out. "Shoot first, and ask questions later" doesn't just refer to sex, you know.
I just wonder what Winter in London will be like? All those people wearing bulky, heavy overcoats to ward off the London chill, boarding the subways, in a hurry to get home...bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.
To say nothing to the London flashers.
British security needs scanning machines at subway entrances like the recent one unveiled in the U.S. that can literally see under a person's clothes, no matter how thick or bulky. Yes, it would cost a lot of money, but if less money were being wasted on "police actions" overseas, more money would be freed to actually protect the British better at home.
The same can be said for security here in the U.S.. The hundreds of billions of dollars (with hundreds of billions still to go) spent on Bush invading Iraq could have gone far to make the U.S. more secure.
If any attacks occur again in the U.S., therefore, Bush and his pals will be the one's solely responsible!!
John Gibson = monkey spunk.
gibson seemed kind of happy that an inocent was killed. one less inocent ya gotta kill before you get to the bomber.
We lived through a particularly nasty period in NYC, under our former mayor, Jesus H. Giuliani, in which it was simply open season on Black males by cops.
The most heinous example was this one undercover scumbag, who was trolling a club one night, looking to make a drug sting. He confronted a young Black man about selling him some drugs, and the man wasn't interested. The undercover guy persisted, and apparently this led to words. Well, when a street fight escalates, and you're a roided-up scumbag with the "double-oh" license to kill, one more dead nigger isn't gonna mean much to you, is it?
Now, in a normal society, there would be repercussions and atonement. Not in Giuliani's New York. Before the cries of "How could this happen?" could even rise to an audible level, St. Rudy was out in front of the cameras, reading the press this dead young man's suppodedly sealed juvie record. And quipping, "This was not exactly a choir boy!"
I recount this story to make a few larger points. Our city, over a period of time, was conditioned by the media to believe that the semi-regular murder of innocent citizens (much like lynchings in another era) is an acceptable everyday occurrence. You did NOT turn on your TV and see news packages teased, "Could your iPod get you killed?" or, "Could pulling your wallet out of your pocket get you shot by a cop?"
Nope. Shamefully, the moral of every TV or newspaper story was always: it's all just part of the brave cop doing his dangerous job. Subliminal message: if shit happens, well, what would you rather have.. anarchy? Or a few dead niggers?
I always believed that in Great Britain, such cowboy, racist sociology is abhorrent to British society at large, because they haven't gone nuts, like we have. Nice to see that under Bush's poodle, they're importing our unique brand of modern American fascism. I'm wagering that despite the bursts of British outrage we're currently reading about over this incident, the Gibson/Magalong-type apologists and their meme of the "brave cop doing his job" will soon, with the help of American neocon think tanks, be proliferating in England.
Because, after all, the London bombings changed everything.
These guys just take the bait....
Rebecca Hamilton, 34, from Chiswick, who works in the arches directly underneath the Shepherds Bush station:
"We work underneath the station in the arches and police came in and kind of told us to get out basically, just to drop everything and get out. We have left all our cars and everything in there.
"We didn't hear any noise but we didn't hear trains for about a good half-an-hour before and they just told us to get out and we ran out. When we first came out of the arches we just mingled around but now they are telling us to get back (to the moving police cordon)."
Paul Williamson, 19, a bank worker who was in a tattoo parlour 20 yards away from the number 26 bus in East London:
"The first I knew of it there were people running about and running around in the street. I saw a blonde lady in her 20s who had been on the bus. I think she was American or Australian. She was quite scared and shaken and I think she was in a state of shock.
"She said it was a minor explosion and there were no injuries but she smelled smoke on the bus. I think she was just getting off the bus when it happened. It can't have been a very loud explosion because we didn't hear anything where we were. The police were very quick, they came in and just said for everyone to get out of the area because there was a possibility of an explosion.
"As I came out I saw the bus but it didn't look like there was any damage to the bus. I didn't see any glass in the street."
A Stagecoach spokesperson on an incident on the incident on the number 26 bus:
"The driver heard a bang which appeared to come from the upper deck. When he went upstairs to investigate, the windows on the upper deck were blown out. The bus is structurally intact and we don't have any reports of injuries."
· Reports from the Press Association, Sky News and the BBC
Well, here you have it folks; the Earth has officially turned into BizarroWorld; up is down, black is white, insanity is normality, George Tenet gets a medal, Shinseki resigns in disgrace, and Bush wins a 2nd term based on his unending pack of lies, an innocent man is shot to death with 3 cops pinning him down. Shit do I feel safer.
'That's bullshit. I have all the empathy in the world for everybody else. I don't have a problem with any group. I don't like those, because of their culture, society and monothiesm, are killing people in the West for those reasons.'
Uh huh....and what exactly is going on in Iraq?
He died of being "insufficently white." What's the problem?
In the unlikely event that anyone looks in here, I just want to remind you that the British have been picking off the Irish for generations. In fact, they brought an astonishingly callous attitude to the cold-blooded murder of children coming home from an errand to the grocery store, and a retarded youth who'd already been stopped and interviewed, and was known to be unthreatening. In fact, when Bush started promoting the worst performing people in the the military, it was no surprise at all, as the Brits had done that two decades ago. Anyone remember Bloody Sunday?
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