I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
ahh yeah
People would have forgiven Clinton his indiscretions if he'd kept Hillary quiet and at home, IMO.
Get out.
DING DING DING DING!!!!
We have a WINNER!
Sorry, email addy...
I am crushed.
That's why every little bit of their hypocrisy must be exposed. St. Patrick's rector who inveighs against homosexuality and liberalism gets caught banging his secretary? Doors wide open -- Larry Flynt Style! Faux-pious congressman chokes his not-29-year-old mistress? Doors wide open -- Larry Flynt Style! Win an election by whipping up fear of evil homosexuals and frequent gay chat rooms on the side? Doors wide open -- Larry Flynt style!
As pie would say, "Popcorn."
The burka is not an Arab tradition. MoDo probably means hijab or abaya. Burkas are found in Afghanistan, which is not an Arab country.
Jesus said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." But then he said, "Blessed are the peacemakers."
Flip-flopper!
Jesus said, "If your enemy strikes you, turn the other cheek."
Soft on terrorism!
Jesus said we should sell all our goods and give everything to the poor.
Socialist!
Jesus overturned the tables of the money-changers. He also said, "It is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of God."
Communist!
Jesus consorted with prostitutes and tax-collecters and the homeless. He was born to a mother who was impregnated by a man who was not her husband.
Jesus is opposed to Christian family values! What will we tell the children?
Jesus Christ.
Flip-flopper. Soft on terrorism. Socialist. Communist. Against family values.
We just can't trust him. He's wrong for America.
This message was brought to you by the Republican National Committee.
I think they would love to make women have to answer to their "male" relatives.
Actually I think that's what probably makes them so mad about Cindy Sheehan.
There she is, out on the side of the road, and her husband isn't controlling her.
It's pretty damn easy to be moral when all it requires is worrying about the morality of other people and not actually adjusting one's own behavior.
A Muslim student of mine insists that this is the real meaning of "jihad," the inner struggle to purify oneself. Outside Wahabbism, that's its generally accepted meaning. But once you externalize it, as the Wahabbists do, you can apply jihad to all kinds of crap. And the same goes for the Holy Warriors here in the US, as Atrios notes.
In fact, for the most part, individual behavior is no longer all that important, at least not more important than policy.
It is absolutely un-important. It no longer has any standing at all - matters that we once understood to constitute honor, truthfulness, fairness - they now are defined as anything that advances whatever someone wants advancing. Profoundly hostile and bitter personal attacks - not mere opposition or disagreement - form the basis of policy, a quarter of an inch thick in value and acres wide in effect. Morality, understood in what used to be termed ethics and quite comprehensible outside any form of religiosity and thus something to be considered by secular governmental structures, has vanished entirely.
It is the Busybody Nation - the land where one person's long nosed enquiry is given exactly the same merit as law.
DWD does the Bible!
Matthew 7:3 - And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:4 - Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:5 - Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Read it.
About time she got back to work. The NYT op/ed page has become thin gruel.
Burkas are found in Afghanistan, which is not an Arab country.
Afghan burkas are found in Afghanistan, of course. Other places call them something else, I suppose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burka
I think they would love to make women have to answer to their "male" relatives.
I can't understand men who are this afraid of women. What cowards they are; what simple, lowly punks.
Maybe it would be better if they just hasten their journey to see their god. And leave the rest of us the hell alone.
Allright--it's terribly long winded, and it's blogwhoring, but...
As I was (more or less) saying...
Individual responsibility? What fun is that? Far more fun to blame someone else for our "problems."
Which brings us back to the moral courage of Cindy Sheehan (in the post, at my blog, above the one I just blogwhored. Wow! 2 blogwhores in one comment! Must be some kind of record....)
President Bush signed into law a bill to create electronic monitoring programs to prevent the abuse of prescription drugs in all 50 states.
The new law creates a grant program for states to create databases and enhance existing ones in hopes of ending the practice of "doctor shopping" by drug abusers seeking multiple prescriptions. It would authorize $60 million for the program through fiscal 2010.
would like to know which democrats voted for this.
never mind...they all did...
"...The bill passed the House by voice vote and the Senate by unanimous consent in July..."
MORAL, adj.
Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having the quality of general expediency.
It is sayd there be a raunge of mountaynes in the Easte, on
one syde of the which certayn conducts are immorall, yet on the other syde they are holden in good esteeme; wherebye the mountayneer is much conveenyenced, for it is given to him to goe downe eyther way and act as it shall suite his moode, withouten offence.
Gooke's Meditations
Ambrose Beirce
The Devil's Dictionary
modo's using burka as a broader metaphor here
BTW, when are we going to have a media that will simply herald the truth with as much fervor as they promote their lies.
I have read that the USA is considering amnesty for "terrorists" in Iraq: If you couple this fact with the other observation that we will have to pull troops out because we cannot sustain that level, isn't it pretty obvious that we have lost? And if we have lost, why is the nincompoop threatening war against Iran? He really is a simple son of a bitch, isn't he?
I say go Old Testament on these chimpco bastards and smite them all.
I can't understand men who are this afraid of women.
They're not afraid. They're enraged. Ya'll used to be able to tell us what to do -- and you had all the money. Not so any more. You dig deep into any wingnut's rant about women (or gays) and it's all about a yearning for the "way things used to be."
Some loon wrote Avarosis a few months ago. Full of homophobic venom of the worst kind. "Faggot this," "Faggot that," and all the rest. At the end of his letter he said (paraphrasing), "You fags and women take a good man's job. Make it impossible for him to earn a decent living."
That's it. Get out of the workforce. Stop taking our money. We'll give you money when we think you need it. And things will be wonderful -- the way they used to be.
It's pretty damn easy to be moral when all it requires is worrying about the morality of other people and not actually adjusting one's own behavior.
Hence,
The never-ending chonricle of church-related crime
Dowd forgot to mention Gore's or Kerry's Turtlenecks. What's with her?
MYOB'
.
It's pretty damn easy to be moral when all it requires is worrying about the morality of other people and not actually adjusting one's own behavior.
Now where I have seen that before?....Oh Yeah!
Matt 7:3-5
7:3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? 7:4 Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye.
In fact, for the most part, individual behavior is no longer all that important, at least not more important than policy.
Well, I won't blogwhore again (3! In a row! And he muffs it!), but probably repeat what I've already said on the web:
"Christianity" today, as Bill McKibben has pointed out recently, is more and more about the importance of the individual, which is to say the self-importance of ME! Individual accountability is impossible when God wants me to be rich, happy, (white?), and exremely comfortable.
Camels, rich men, eyes of needles! Away with that Gospel of Pessimism! Bring us the Gospel of Prosperity!
It's what's driving Joel Osteen and Rick Warren. It's what's driven Latin Americans away from Liberation Theology (well, that and JPII) and into Pentecostal "Gospel of Wealth" churches.
And it only gets worse before it gets better.
The meaning of hijab or burka could logically be extended to nun's hablts, and the "Plain Dress" of Amish and Mennonites in our own culture. I mean, a mantilla is just a lacy, pretty burka.
And things will be wonderful -- the way they used to be.
res ipsa loquitur
Yeah. Back when men worked the coal mines and came home drunk with no pay left, and despised art and beauty and love and everything that makes life worth living.
Get these people some D.H. Lawrence! Maybe it's not too late!
I know how to spell "chronicle" of course. Fingers are ahead of brain today.
I've been saying this for a long time - especially when it comes to "prayer in school" - they don't want it so THEIR kids can pray in school (anyone can fucking pray in school at any time they choose) it's about making your kids pray in school.
THEIR kids aren't the problem - YOUR kids are the problem.
Never them, always someone else.
It's pretty damn easy to be moral when all it requires is worrying about the morality of other people and not actually adjusting one's own behavior.
Now you got me all excited!!!
The GOP on war, then and now... Funny how times have changed, eh?
THEIR kids aren't the problem - YOUR kids are the problem.
Never them, always someone else.
SalParadise
"I know you smoke, I know you drink that brew,
You know, I just can't abide a sinner like you,
God can't either, that's why I know it to be true, that
Jesus loves me, but he can't stand you!"--The Austin Lounge Lizards
They're not afraid. They're enraged.
Point taken. I reconize that this is fear driven by rage that the times have changed, and they no longer have the "control" they once believed they did.
Ah, all that think like this are assholes.
DWD, you did the Bible right. When I read the Bible the message is for ME, to show me the way, not to point the way for others.
Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:12
You'd think that those who shout the loudest about the morality of others - Msgr. Clark, of St. Patrick's Cathedral as the latest example - would be more careful about their personal behavior if they are going to call attention to the transgressions of others.
It's pretty damn easy to be moral when all it requires is worrying about the morality of other people and not actually adjusting one's own behavior.
well actually (and seriously) it's easy to understand why they act this way even though it makes no sense to us folks:
Protestants, whether Baptists or Pentecostals or what-have-you, believe that we are saved by faith alone, not works.
So, you don't actually have to be a good person to get into God's little Neverland in the sky. In fact you are wasting your time doing so. You are saved by the grace of God alone.
And of course, all white Republican Christians are saved.
How convenient.
These peoples' religion is very primitive. It consists of appeasing their vengeful god. The appeasement of this god is made through adopting certain beliefs. Once you believe, then you are saved from the punishment of the god. It doesn't matter what you do, it only matters what you believe. You must surrender your intellect and conscience to the movement. No cheaper lie will do.
Um, as much as I respect MoDo, I have o disagree a little.
Karen Hughes is not a woman.
She is a sweating hog in size 14 pumps with man-hands, who clomps around soaked in as much blood as the rest of the clan of murderers she works with.
So I would appreciate it if MoDo would henceforth use that quote to describe her.
I think a lot of fundie Christians seem to believe that just going through the motions of being Christians makes them virtuous and good by definition, and that's *why* their actual behavior is irrelevant.
Example #2,945:
Kentucky Minister's Moral Breach
(AgapePress) - A retired conservative United Methodist pastor and Christian author who has been a major contributor to the denomination's debates on the integrity and sanctity of marriage has admitted to having a longtime adulterous affair with a woman in his church.
Recently, Pastor David Seamands apologized to his former church in Wilmore, Kentucky, for what he termed "a breach of trust and moral failure." The 83-year-old minister admitted to "abusing the trust" of his family and friends by engaging in sexual misconduct over "a number of years" with a member of Wilmore United Methodist Church, where he had been pastor from 1962 to 1984.
Seamands is a best-selling author of books on emotional healing, who was one of the pioneers of the field of Christian counseling and who served as a professor and dean at Asbury Theological Seminary in Kentucky until his retirement in 1992. According to ChristianityToday.com, he and his wife Helen were leading figures in the Marriage Enrichment and Engaged Discovery movements and have counseled more than 2,200 couples during those weekend programs.
Their attitude towards Bush being a prime example - no matter how much he lies and fucks up, he's still a Good Christian Man, and that's all that matters.
All of this kinda of distills down to the ever popular "Do as I say, not as I do." hypocrites. I have to wonder who would be driving the first spike through his wrist if Jesus came back right now; Falwell, Dobson, ????
Joanboatler,
Too often, on this blog and others, people dismiss the wisdom contained in the Bible. Even if you do not accept that Jesus Christ was the son of God or revel in the Old Testament: there still are great stores of wisdom that are accessible.
For me, I tend to hang around the gospels and Ecclesiastes as they are full of tempered thought.
Actually I think that's what probably makes them so mad about Cindy Sheehan.
There she is, out on the side of the road, and her husband isn't controlling her.
Word. The farking media refer to her as "Ms. Sheehan" since her hubby is not in charge of her cause. What a load of tripe. The respectful title of *Mrs. Sheehan* is denied her 'cause she is not a wingnut.
The meaning of hijab or burka could logically be extended to nun's hablts, and the "Plain Dress" of Amish and Mennonites in our own culture. I mean, a mantilla is just a lacy, pretty burka.
plantsman - Um, no, not really. The habit, plain dress, head cloths, all these were merely modifications of ordinary womens dress for centuries. The British 'nursing sister's' head dress that was in use thruout the Great War, became the nurse's cap in the Second war and now is gone altogether - because it no longer had any connexion to ordinary daily life. A nun's habit of the mid-20th century is a relic of ordinary women's clothing from fifty or a hundred years before. In other words, the evolution and changes in women's clothing were, until comparatively recently parallelled by special purpose women's clothing - long skirts with ruffles and lace were re-interpreted as plain, no ruffles and no lace for religious. Women's hats, absolute necessities among the civilian population, were made as plain caps or simple veils for the religious. The hijab and burka are relics of ordinary womens clothing that are being -reimposed- outside the evolutionary path. It was ordinary for a countrywoman in Nejh or Kurdistan or Oman to wear a headcovering and a cloak while outdoors, just as it was customary for an Irish countrywoman to wear a shawl draped around her head and shoulders. But times changed and an Irish countrywoman is not going to be censored for forgetting her shawl, nor a nursing sister for omitting her headdress. Imposition of the burqa is a way to make life stand still. It was already gone and away long ago. That and the hijab are as purely political impositions as the requirement for facial hair in Afghanistan or chino pants and blue shirts among IT workers.
I have to wonder who would be driving the first spike through his wrist if Jesus came back right now; Falwell, Dobson, ????
Rove.
Protestants, whether Baptists or Pentecostals or what-have-you, believe that we are saved by faith alone, not works.
So, you don't actually have to be a good person to get into God's little Neverland in the sky. In fact you are wasting your time doing so. You are saved by the grace of God alone.
----
So that explains why I hate the rich that dont share. Class warfare with a little reglion in your cool aid.
*sigh*
I think a lot of fundie Christians seem to believe that just going through the motions of being Christians makes them virtuous and good by definition, and that's *why* their actual behavior is irrelevant.
Eli
I'm sure the church they go to gives them a "pass" as long as they've given the proper money.
GOD NEEDS MONEY!
Just like the most painless way to prove how Christian you are is to focus on the sin you're least likely to commit: homosexuality.
I'm sure the church they go to gives them a "pass" as long as they've given the proper money.
I'm sure they're all buried clutching tightly to their Get Out Of Hell Free cards.
(not really "free", of course...)
another mans burden is much easier to carry.
Protestants, whether Baptists or Pentecostals or what-have-you, believe that we are saved by faith alone, not works.
The morons around Searcy, Arkansas had a saying: "once saved, always saved."
The most painless way for Muslim men to prove that they have not abandoned Arab culture and adopted Western ways is to tighten the burka.
What would be the most painless way for American men to prove that they have not abandoned American culture and adopted, um, un-American ways?
Just like the most painless way to prove how Christian you are is to focus on the sin you're least likely to commit: homosexuality.
If it was adultery, they'd be in some seeeeerious trouble.
DWD,
I have taught a Bible for Liberals class at my Unitarian Universalist church for about 8 months. I have a few regular attenders, but I get a lot of people who say, "I'd love to know more about the Bible. Thanks for teaching the class. I'll try to come." But they never do. I think what I'm hearing is that people wish the Bible was relevant to them. They feel like maybe it shoudl be. But their non-attendance makes it clear to me that the Bible has finally lost its relevance to most modern-minded people . To get anything out of it requires so much study of the ancient context, that it is not worth peoples' effort. I don't know if I'm going to keep offering the class.
Just like the most painless way to prove how Christian you are is to focus on the sin you're least likely to commit: homosexuality.
Rick Perlstein - true enough. Particularly since t'aint a sin. Now, gluttony, sloth, envy.... Those are sins!
Rmj, Wandering Aengus,
You kick ASS for an old guy.
Heh. We are partners in oldness.
Their attitude towards Bush being a prime example - no matter how much he lies and fucks up, he's still a Good Christian Man, and that's all that matters.
Long, long time ago I worked for an antique dealer who's business was managed by a fundie. (The guy who owned the business lived about 200 miles away and managed another store.) My boss used to "borrow" furniture (his phrase) from the store, fix it up and sell it off, then report said furniture as either destroyed, or sold for about half of what he got for it. I asked him one time if what he was doing didn't go against his religious beliefs, and his comment was, "As long as I believe in Jesus, all is forgiven." I asked him if that went for everything, even killing someone. He gave me a funny look and said, "Jesus would know that I did that (kill someone) because it was necessary."
I quit a few days later and have stayed clear of these fools every since.
. 16 Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard. 17 The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.
BartCop yesterday also quoted MoDo, seemingly with approval; then he launched into a profanity-laced tirade about how she smugly helped defeat Gore and Kerry with her Wultitzer-driven gossip presented as fact. He was really mad, especially since MoDo can be smart and insightful when she feels like it. But she's plagued by schoolgirl bitchiness, isn't she?
"Just like the most painless way to prove how Christian you are is to focus on the sin you're least likely to commit: homosexuality"
Or in Santorum's case, since he is a closet homosexual and deeply ashamed by it, equate your "sin" with something that is even more deviant, in his case, bestiality. That way you distance yourself even further from your own sin rhetorically.
What would be the most painless way for American men to prove that they have not abandoned American culture and adopted, um, un-American ways?
res ipsa loquitur
Hate homosexuality. The "sin," ya know, not the 'sinner.'
And make damn sure no homsexuals can be priests/ministers/pastors.
Just like the most painless way to prove how Christian you are is to focus on the sin you're least likely to commit: homosexuality.
Do trannies count?
Yep, that's pretty much it, BDM. They just don't understand, or they don't want to understand. Christianity is a religion of convenience for them, and that's not what it was ever supposed to be about.
Long, long time ago I worked for an antique dealer who's business was managed by a fundie. (The guy who owned the business lived about 200 miles away and managed another store.) My boss used to "borrow" furniture (his phrase) from the store, fix it up and sell it off, then report said furniture as either destroyed, or sold for about half of what he got for it. I asked him one time if what he was doing didn't go against his religious beliefs, and his comment was, "As long as I believe in Jesus, all is forgiven." I asked him if that went for everything, even killing someone. He gave me a funny look and said, "Jesus would know that I did that (kill someone) because it was necessary."
Paul spends about half the first letter to the Corinthians talking about this very problem (people thinking that since they "believe," "anthing goes!").
Conveniently, that entire quite cogent discussion is seldom brought up. Or, if it is, the congregation clearly understands it doesn't apply to them. Their neighbor? Surely. But not them.
Same as it ever was.
I don't know. MoDo is confused about burkas, Atrios about tanks... there are real credibillity issues here.
/snark
I have to wonder who would be driving the first spike through his wrist if Jesus came back right now; Falwell, Dobson, ????
Rove.
Rove would be orginizing a BBQ down at the Ranch so the GOP fat cats could pony up some money while watching some crazy, long-haired "librul" get nailed to a cross.
RMJ, being a Christian isn't *supposed* to be super-easy, right?
Just like the most painless way to prove how Christian you are is to focus on the sin you're least likely to commit: homosexuality. Actually, I think that for most of those who focus on homosexuality, it is probably the sin that they unconsciously want to commit. In a bizarre way they are drawn to what they think is the most craven, or heinous act they can think of, short of killing something.
But she's plagued by schoolgirl bitchiness, isn't she?
John Kerry has MoDo to thank for the "Who among us does not love NASCAR?" lie.
But they never do. I think what I'm hearing is that people wish the Bible was relevant to them. They feel like maybe it shoudl be. But their non-attendance makes it clear to me that the Bible has finally lost its relevance to most modern-minded people . To get anything out of it requires so much study of the ancient context, that it is not worth peoples' effort. I don't know if I'm going to keep offering the class.
Pendulum, swinging. At the turn of the 20th century, mail-order Greek courses were all the rage in America. People wanted to read the New Testament in the original language.
Today? They won't read it if you turn it into a comic book.
The pendulum cuts a very large arc.
Um, as much as I respect MoDo, I have o disagree a little.
Karen Hughes is not a woman.
That horrible creature is a toxic shock syndrome to the free world.
Today? They won't read it if you turn it into a comic book.
Fundies especially. Not the New Testament, anyway.
(You know, the one that puts the "Christ" into "Christianity"...)
RMJ, being a Christian isn't *supposed* to be super-easy, right?
Eli
More and more, Eli, my sympathies are with the Desert Fathers of the 4th century, (and the Irish monks, of about the same time), who understood that the only person you could be responsible for was yourself, and as a servant you were responsible to everyone else.
Keeps you humble, and focussed on what you do wrong, rather than what everyone else is doing to you, or without you.
And yes, it's very hard.
And yes, it's very hard.
And rare.
But their non-attendance makes it clear to me that the Bible has finally lost its relevance to most modern-minded people . To get anything out of it requires so much study of the ancient context, that it is not worth peoples' effort. I don't know if I'm going to keep offering the class.
AB^3
AB I don't mean to give offense, but simply state a fact:
I fail to understand what relevance the vast part of a 2000 year old text which belongs to a relatively primitive, agricultural society has to living one's life in the urban, technologically advanced 21st century.
Yes, there is timeless wisdom in the Bible. The Psalms can be quite beautiful. But it's all sandwiched in between a lot of angry smiting of other tribes whose only sin seems to be not being of Abrahamic descent; this-guy-begat-that-guy-begat-the-other; outdated dietary strictures; animal sacrifice; justifications for slavery; ridiculous fairy tales like creation of the world in six days and the Great Flood/Noah's Ark; and of course the inevitable incest, adultery and random violence.
Rmj,
I do feel like I'm out of sync. By at least a century. :-(
Rmj,
I do feel like I'm out of sync. By at least a century. :-(
AB^3
Well, so do I.
And I'm supposed to be making my living at this.
Yep, that's pretty much it, BDM. They just don't understand, or they don't want to understand. Christianity is a religion of convenience for them, and that's not what it was ever supposed to be about.
Eli
Agreed. I rest my case. Jesus would be crucified all over again by the current crop of wingnuttery.
Today? They won't read it if you turn it into a comic book.
But, Frank Miller's suppose to be working on a kick-ass version, a modern day re-telling done as a twelve-part graphic novel. The Fundies will love it!
Yes, there is timeless wisdom in the Bible. The Psalms can be quite beautiful. But it's all sandwiched in between a lot of angry smiting of other tribes whose only sin seems to be not being of Abrahamic descent; this-guy-begat-that-guy-begat-the-other; outdated dietary strictures; animal sacrifice; justifications for slavery; ridiculous fairy tales like creation of the world in six days and the Great Flood/Noah's Ark; and of course the inevitable incest, adultery and random violence.
Isn't that all the Old Testament? Shouldn't the so-called Christians be focusing more on the New Testament? And how come they never do?
renato--
obviously, (applying Occam's razor here), if that's all it was, it wouldn't be the important part of Western culture it is today.
If for no other reason, you could say the same about the dialogues of Plato (all that pederastry!), The Iliad and The Odyssey, and a great deal of classical literature.
I don't give those the same importance as Scriptures, but a reductio ad absurdum argument is not really a sound argument.
I think the New Testament is a fine basis for a religion. The Old Testament, eh, not so much.
But, Frank Miller's suppose to be working on a kick-ass version, a modern day re-telling done as a twelve-part graphic novel. The Fundies will love it!
Big Daddy Mars
Quit getting my hopes up!
Eli--both Hebrew Scriptures and NT are accepted as "holy" by Christians, but you are right: they should be guided by the Gospels and Paul's letters.
That would be enough to do, just studying those and trying to apply them to yourself and your life. But it's more fun to meddle in other people's lives, where you have no control and, so, no responsibility, either.
renato,
I totally agree with your point. The Bible teaches as much by counterexample as by anything else. This is all making me wonder why I still find it so fascinating. I guess it connects me to an ancient people. And I find that no matter how much religious "fashions" change, people are still pretty much the same. I read the Bible a lot as a youth, and now I find that that knowledge has been useful to me as an "on-ramp" to the study of history, archaeology, anthropology, linguistics, comparative religion, mythology, etc. That's what I find compelling.
Isn't that all the Old Testament? Shouldn't the so-called Christians be focusing more on the New Testament? And how come they never do?
Eli
Odd, how the followers of Jesus focus so HARD on the hateful passages of the Old Testament, isn't it?
Odd, how the followers of Jesus focus so HARD on the hateful passages of the Old Testament, isn't it?
I'm sure the New Testament bores them to tears, plus it has all that namby-pamby love & compassion crap.
Not talking about you, of course, RMJ - just your many many Bizarro counterparts.
Isn't that all the Old Testament? Shouldn't the so-called Christians be focusing more on the New Testament? And how come they never do?
Eli
I think because to do so honestly would force them into the very uncomfortable position of having to take a long, hard look at themselves and the way they live their own lives, rather than, as Atrios has pointed out, take the easy way out and worry about everyone else's morality.
I think the New Testament is a fine basis for a religion. The Old Testament, eh, not so much. Yeah, the only problem is that most who claim to be Christian, either don't want to follow the tenets of the NT, but will pick and choose which ones they want to follow. That, or as said before here, just showing up at church is their supposed "Get out of Hell Free Card". My single biggest problem with those who profess to be religious is those who have to wear it on their sleeve, shove it in your face, believing that if you don't believe as they do, you're doomed. Too many forget about being judged by their deeds.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft is no longer supporting the NT anyway...
The N.T. has been used to justify a lot of hatred toward other races, homosexuals, women, jews, non-believers etc. It is evident to me that the writers of the Gospels not only never knew Jesus, but completely misunderstood him. But the beauty of his teachings can still be discerned in spite of them. Moreover, most of the rest of the N.T. was written pseudonymously. The genuine Paul stuff is pretty interesting, however.
Yah, I know the NT's not perfect, but it's still got a helluva lot more admirable stuff in it than the OT, which works better as an epic than a source of moral wisdom.
I can't remember where I ran across this on the net or even whether it was a tee shirt or a cartoon, but it struck me as profound:
"No, I don't mind that you're a Christian, but I do expect you to act like one in public."
I can live with that.
Re: the use of "Ms."-- it ain't necessarily so, bigvic.
That is, it may well be that the reactionary media chooses that appellation for the insidious purpose you describe. But here's my basis for using "Ms.", imparted to me during the early 1970s. Perhaps the thinking has changed since then, and I have become old-fashioned and recreant.
I learned that "Mrs." was a contraction for "Mistress of", and that the correct use of the term was, e.g., "Mrs. Archibald Bunker", i.e. "Mistress of Archibald Bunker".
My mother and other women of her generation and previous generations certainly accepted and used that construction. I think it's fair to say that they took it for granted, without considering the embedded social dynamic.
In this vein, I remember my ardent feminist sister et al scorning the modified usage, "Mrs. Edith Bunker", which purported to confer individuality on the user by substituting the woman's own first name. In my sister et al's eyes, this was a pernicious attempt to have it both ways, i.e. conferring autonomy and individuality while still defining the woman in terms of her spouse. "Mrs. 'Edith' Bunker doesn't exist! A person can't be their own mistress!" went the critique.
Thus, "Ms.", a universal honorific, was offered as an alternative. (Probably by some feminist icon, but the source escapes me.) It was promoted as a way to respectfully refer to women without reference to marital status.
When I began my state worker career, mingling with people who were not particularly progressive, I certainly encountered women who scorned and despised "Ms." "I ain't no Mizz," I'm married, dammit!" These women embraced the "Mrs. Edith" option, preferred to be called "Missus", and thought the "Mizz" business was some kind of politically correct folderol.
So it goes. I've looked at life from both sides now, and stick with the universal "Ms." usage for the reasons noted above.
All that said, I don't always buy into the kerfuffle about the alleged malign use of code words. Recently, I happened to watch a bit of an interview on NJ public TV with a local politician, a proud progressive lesbian. She consistently used the term "Democrat" instead of "Democratic", e.g. "... the Democrat politicians have to reach out to the grass roots..."
She was obviously unaware that her usage would be considered suspect and biased. Likewise, I still say "black" on occasion instead of "African-American", and so do many black interlocutors, without incident.
Just sayin'.
"No, I don't mind that you're a Christian, but I do expect you to act like one in public."
I can live with that. Amen.
But this is hypocrisy and the book of rules they choose to follow is full of clear statements that hypocrites can never get into heaven.
Note to Rmj, Wandering Aengus:
The Taco Bell boycott was a success, and we're eating a taco there every now and then.
I learned that "Mrs." was a contraction for "Mistress of", and that the correct use of the term was, e.g., "Mrs. Archibald Bunker", i.e. "Mistress of Archibald Bunker".
I'm afraid you've mis-remembered. The term Mistress is exactly co-equal to that of Master. The word Mistress indicated a woman of a certain age - that is a grown woman, not an infant or a girl. Just as Master was shortened to Mr. (or Senor to Sr. or Monsieur to M.), so did Mistress become Mrs. (Sra., Mme.) The term Mistress was used to denote any woman of 'une age certaine', whether married, widowed, or single. In the era of the contracted designations, the terms Mrs. and Miss came to signal married status/adult status in English (not however, in the Romance language countries). The terms Mr. and Master diverged as well and flipped, with Mister or Mr. denoting an adult male and Master being used for a boy. Thus, the final contraction of Mistress to Ms. is nothing more nor less than an attempt to exactly mimic the same two letter construction and as well eliminate the distinction made between an adult and child (which given societal presumptions marked adulthood by the married state). The confusion of course is why I just went ahead and earned a doctorate.
Now. Isn't that simple?
I've read the King James Bible front to back twice. My main problem with it is that it's mind-numbingly reptitive. The second time I read it, I was bored to tears about halfway through the OT; that's why I have to get the Jefferson version where he cuts out all the begats and tedious reminders to Love God or Else and just concentrates on what is attributed to Jesus. The Queen James Version could seriously do with some pruning.
Re Ms & Mrs -- I recall the provenance of Ms about the same as Little Brother (sorry, L.B., I can't figure out how to make that o/slash character).
And here's what I was taught lo, these many years ago -- a married woman of a certain class in mid-century America would sign her name either Mrs. Archibald Bunker or Mrs. Archibald (Edith) Bunker. If she was a *widow,* she'd sign it Mrs. Edith Bunker. When I get cards from my sister-in-law addressed to Mrs. Straw Hat I nudge the spouse and tell him she just killed him off.
Since I got married for the first time past the age of forty (nobody's happier than a forty-year-old bride, nobody), I like to be called Mrs.
But back to the topic. If Cindy calls herself Mrs. Sheehan, the commentators should too.
Eli, rmj, AB^3, I find that reading the whole Bible through the lens of the Gospels works for me. Though the Gospels may be an imperfect account of the life and words of Jesus, it as close as we can get, and the wisdom comes through, IMHO.
For me, the Gospels are fairly simple reading, and not having a knowledge of the original language and the ancient texts is not a drawback. What's hard is taking the message to heart and trying to live it out.
I appreciate the input and clarification. There's still the asymmetrical aspect of the traditional usage to which I referred, i.e. that it was considered proper to use "Mrs. Archibald Bunker", but no one would even think of using "Mr. Edith Bunker", except facetiously or sarcastically. We children of the Sixties hoped to decouple the power relationship implied in this usage once and for all, hoping this would promote parity and equality.
I think this issue also makes that point that there's no entirely safe and predictable way to address people, since the issue is always complicated by issues noted-- the intent of the user, the preference of the individual being addressed, the eye of each beholder, und so weiter.
As the Slacktivist put it not that long ago: Judgement for thee, and not for me.
AB^3 - "The Bible teaches as much by counterexample as by anything else.
I disagree. The OT examples of polygamy, incest and lying were NOT claimed to be sins.
As for the Mrs./Ms. argument you are not adressing the linguistic similarity of 'Miss' as an abreviation of 'Misstress'.
Every possible reference is the same in structure and origin.
It is about intent(/deepak) and the context from which we derive standard usage connotation.
Ladies call the shots in this. Their approval merits the designation.
For that matter Mister has the same root. Miss-ter? They are all designation of title attached to relations deemed proprietal.
Thus the entire subjugation of mankind's spirit is codified within the standard fundamental precepts of every language know.
This was the fall from grace Eden's symbol represents. Because the apple was property within the hands of either. The failure to account for this before another jealous stingy being(G-d) is the root of this.
If someone offered G-d a bite of the apple She would have most likely said "It's All Good" and mankind could still party naked in gardens with a bunch of diverse pets not killing one another.
But jealousy kicked the mortals out of thise realm and denied them diverse interaction of Creation and each struggled to find a niche.
Strangely enough (s)he loved the world enough to drown everybody(including newborns) except for one family (once again codifies the i-word into accepted societal contexts) and then left a rainbow as its promise not to do so again.
So the symbol of a movement that the christo-fascists and islamo-fascists villify and call ungodly is the same promise made never to judge the Whole of humankind with hatred.
The most painless way for Muslim men to prove that they have not abandoned Arab culture and adopted Western ways is to tighten the burka.
Then let THEM wear it!
I think they would love to make women have to answer to their "male" relatives.
four legs good
Fuck THAT!
I can't understand men who are this afraid of women. What cowards they are; what simple, lowly punks.
Describes the vast majority of our trolls!
I could never understand that shit where married women have to be Mrs. John Smith.
Not their first name.
It's like you cease to be an individual and that you're some male's property.
The 23 years I was married I never allowed that and I corrected anyone who did that to me.
I made sure I took my maiden name back after the divorce.
It's not modern Republicanism. It's modern religion. It's WHY IT EXISTS. Sorry if I offend you people, but when the modern translations of the Bible were formed, they were done in such a way to make this sort of stuff not only possible.
It's the real "reason for the season".
I'm not saying that all religious people are bad people. There are lots of great people. But they are great in SPITE of their religious views, not because of it.
Except in the military:
"HE SHOULD HAVE ORDERED TORTURE: Yesterday [08/10/05], Army chief of staff Peter Schoomaker relieved General Kevin Byrnes of the Army's Training and Doctrine Command of his duties on the eve of Byrnes's retirement. The four-star general, who never before had so much as a blemish on his record, is accused of cheating on his (now-ex) wife."
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