HULK SMASH!!!
Fuck Bush.
Too bad about Ms. Figueroa. My heart goes out to her family.
What is it about pregnancy that weirds guys out so much that murder is the answer?
Sure, a lot of men split rather than deal with or help pay for children, but killing? What do they think they are defending/protecting/punishing?
<moment of silence>
</moment of silence>
OT: According to Reuters this morning, the US has now agreed to allow Iraq to become an Islamist theocracy. No comment from US officials, and no word yet on how soon the US itself will become a Christian theocracy...
U.S. "concession" on Islam said to turn Iraq talks
The media were actually shamed into finally giving this 1/10th the coverage of Aruba Day 83. I feel for this woman's family. Hope the boyfriend gets convicted swiftly.
Bill Maher, who many here including me get annoyed by, last week commented on this as being the proof that vestiges of racism are alive and well in this country.
OT: If that (previous post) is the case, then Democrats rejoice. This is spectacular, on the scale of "Read my lips, no new Islamist states." There will be a massive Dem sweep of the 2006 elections, after which we can get busy impeaching and convicting the felons in the White House.
Bill Maher, who many here including me get annoyed by, last week commented on this as being the proof that vestiges of racism are alive and well in this country.
trifecta -- 11:16 am
racism has vestiges in the US, the same way the insurgency in iraq has 'last throes'...
What is it about pregnancy that weirds guys out so much that murder is the answer?
Ask Scott Peterson.
OT: If that (previous post) is the case, then Democrats rejoice. This is spectacular, on the scale of "Read my lips, no new Islamist states." There will be a massive Dem sweep of the 2006 elections, after which we can get busy impeaching and convicting the felons in the White House.
Only if the Dems make a stink about it and it gets reported. Otherwise no-one will notice, and the story will be the Great Triumph of bringing democracy ('cuz Constitution = Democracy, don'tcha know) to this troubled land. Mission accomplished!
Let's see...
There they have Taliban, Shi'ites, and Sunnis.
Here we have neocons, Robertsons, Falwells and Dobsons.
They're all religious nuts whose attempted self suppression of humanity for ideology fails.
They're failure causes self-hatred which emerges as anger against "infidels",
i.e. Christians, or liberals, depending on your geography.
The outcome is predictable, suicide bombings, abortion clinic bombings etc etc etc.
What changes their politics over there? I haven't a clue.
Here, political change comes from (wait for it)...
$4 gas. Who'da thunk it?
racism has vestiges in the US, the same way the insurgency in iraq has 'last throes'...
Dude, we're so totally turning the corner on racism. It'll be completely gone a-ny day now.
It's not so much racism as crass capitalism; the same 'news values' that, for once, had me agreeing with Jack Cafferty when he went apeshit over the coverage devoted to BTK.
Sigh.
They're all religious nuts whose attempted self suppression of humanity for ideology fails.
Gee, I thought they all suppressed their humanity pretty damn successfully, actually.
ther will be a massive Dem sweep of the 2006 elections, after which we can get busy impeaching and convicting the felons in the White House.
Libby Sosume - 11:19 am
i'd be willing to bet, right now, that the GOPhascists will have net gains in both houses in 2006...Hackett's race in ohio provided the template...
Close, but no cigar
close enough to be tantalizing, too close to call for a recount, and besides no recount possible because of electronically miscounted or pilfered votes...
sign me
Cassandro (aka)
close enough to be tantalizing, too close to call for a recount, and besides no recount possible because of electronically miscounted or pilfered votes...
Damn, it's a shame how we keep losing elections, but we're always so close. Oh well, at least we gave it our best. It's a moral victory. We'll get 'em next time...
WHATEVER did she SEE in HIM?
From all indications, the guy is a THUG!
rip
&
deep sympathy for her friends & family
Bill Maher, who many here including me get annoyed by, last week commented on this as being the proof that vestiges of racism are alive and well in this country.
trifecta
Maher was also kissing Bush's ass again last night.
May she be in peace. May her family find peace.
What is it about pregnancy that weirds guys out so much that murder is the answer?
Ask Scott Peterson.
pie
I guess BartCop.com will yelling about Poaches being railroaded like Scotty boy was.
I like Bart, but sometimes he can be ridiculous.
Earlier, I read (and now cannot find) a story about Bob Costas refusing to guest host Larry King Thursday because the topic was going to be Natalee Holloway.
Pretty sad when a former sports announcer is the only one with the balls to say "bullshit" on "the most trusted name in news" channel...
$4 gas. Who'da thunk it?
Daver9
That's right, and a capable opposition party would make the link between the Oil administration and obscene Oil industry profits and prices.
WHATEVER did she SEE in HIM?
From all indications, the guy is a THUG!
This is a classic question, since as we all know this sort of thing is not exactly rare.
I would love to hear a cogent explanation for this phenomenon. Maybe the answer is in evolutionary biology - perhaps it's a manifestation of some sort of redemptive mothering / healing / Florence Nightingale trait endemic in women that backfires on them from time to time.
I don't know.
Earlier, I read (and now cannot find) a story about Bob Costas refusing to guest host Larry King Thursday because the topic was going to be Natalee Holloway.
Pretty sad when a former sports announcer is the only one with the balls to say "bullshit" on "the most trusted name in news" channel...
dave™©®
===============================
I wonder if her mother would have been granted a meeting with the prime minister of Aruba if she had a member of a minority?
And, geez, where are all our trolls calling Latoyia a "whore"?
We know how much they love women!
Costas told Blitzer that he didn't particularly want to do a BTK show, either. He's really bloody good as a stand-in. And so will be passed over in favour of Mad Nancy.
As someone once said, it's interesting when sports guys get into political coverage, because they're used to a field where they expect answers and aren't scared to call bullshit.
RIP, Latoyia. And may your family get justice.
"perhaps it's a manifestation of some sort of redemptive mothering / healing / Florence Nightingale trait endemic in women that backfires on them from time to time."
I think you're right.
9 times out of ten it backfires on us - big time!
It was heartbreaking to see her father on TV. I guess I should have realized it would turn out like this.
I really don't see the problem is with Nancy Grace.
Maybe it's me.
I just don't think that every criminal has been "unjustly accused."
She's abrasive, yes, but it seems as though women have to be in order to get ahead.
Blame society, not her!
This is a classic question, since as we all know this sort of thing is not exactly rare.
I would love to hear a cogent explanation for this phenomenon. Maybe the answer is in evolutionary biology - perhaps it's a manifestation of some sort of redemptive mothering / healing / Florence Nightingale trait endemic in women that backfires on them from time to time.
Perhaps. But I see a lot of environmental influences for this type of behavior, too. For one thing, it's often women who grew up in violent families who do this, and women who in general have very low self-esteem. For another thing, even fairy tales advocate "goodness and submission" as devices for changing a man, and the popular culture is fairly similar. And for one more thing, I know men who behave in a very similar manner, though this is more hidden in the society. The guys I know who have this problem also have low self-esteem and look for someone to decide for them. But women are somewhat less likely to kill so the men who are victims tend not to become dead.
I guess BartCop.com will yelling about Poaches being railroaded like Scotty boy was.
Whhhaaaaaaa?
This guy thinks he's figured out what caused Scott to murder his wife and child.
FWIW, which may not be much...
9 times out of ten it backfires on us - big time!
If I had a dollar for every female friend or acquaintance who had qualms about a guy but decided they could "fix" him, I'd have several dollars.
"The media were actually shamed into finally giving this 1/10th the coverage of Aruba Day 83."
Bob costas was so shamed the other day that he decided not to show up as guest host of Larry King Live when it became appearent that he'd have to cover the Natalee Holloway story. I've no idea about his reasoning for the decision, but applaud him for it.
http://allspinzone.com/blog/inde...php?
itemid=1170
For another thing, even fairy tales advocate "goodness and submission" as devices for changing a man, and the popular culture is fairly similar. And for one more thing, I know men who behave in a very similar manner, though this is more hidden in the society. The guys I know who have this problem also have low self-esteem and look for someone to decide for them.
I see what you're saying as regards being submissive, but more specifically I'm talking about the tendency to "hang in there" despite the obvious signs that the mate is seriously fucked up.
I think men are more apt to drop someone just for being "a pain in the ass" whereas women are more likely to rationalize and see the good in someone who's not worth a damn.
I had a cousin serve time in prison and he used to marvel at the number of women who'd take that long trip, bringing goodies and some of them had met these guys online or through correspondence.
I just don't think that sort of thing happens on the other side. Whether it's genetic or social, I guess it's hard to tell.
The nature/nurture split may be a false dichotomy anyway. I've seen some interesting articles saying there seems to be growing evidence that some genes flip switches in response to external environmental factors.
I guess BartCop.com will yelling about Poaches being railroaded like Scotty boy was.
Frankly, I think he has a point.
No weapon, no crime scene, no witnesses, no history of abuse does not equal first degree murder in my book.
"I think men are more apt to drop someone just for being "a pain in the ass" whereas women are more likely to rationalize and see the good in someone who's not worth a damn."
I did that in my marriage. I stuck around LONG after I should have split.
I guess BartCop.com will yelling about Poaches being railroaded like Scotty boy was.
Frankly, I think he has a point.
No weapon, no crime scene, no witnesses, no history of abuse does not equal first degree murder in my book.
dave™©®
If what they say is true and they caught the SOB moving the body, his ass is dead meat.
And if he's convicted, the boys in the Big House are just gonna LOVE him!
So I'm sure we can expect roughly 18 months of wall-to-wall CNN/MSNBC/Faux/CourtTV coverage of the boyfriends trial and sentencing?
The nature/nurture split may be a false dichotomy anyway. I've seen some interesting articles saying there seems to be growing evidence that some genes flip switches in response to external environmental factors.
I've read about this, too. Makes sense.
About the hanging on for longer than necessary, there may be a sex difference there. Partly it could be the greater difficulty women who don't have earnings have in leaving. I remember reading that a large number of victims of domestic violence are stay-at-home parents, and that one reason why they don't leave is lack of money. But it could be something deeper, of course.
I have never had a boyfriend like that and I have never been attracted to men of that type, and I don't have any friends who would, either. So my observations are based on more distant acquaintances and someone in my family.
I did that in my marriage. I stuck around LONG after I should have split.
Yeah, that's too bad but at least it's over.
And Echidne is right, it happens to guys too sometimes - I had a girlfriend I stuck with way too long. Luckily, I didn't have to deal with a divorce situation and I'm in a very good relationship right now. Every time I contrast how my current girlfriend treats me with what I used to put up with, I shake my head.
But since we're speaking generally, I still say women tend to fall into this trap more often.
Eli, WGG - I live in OH-2, and campaigned for Hackett. The Rethugs didn't have to cheat to win this one. Coming that close was a fucking miracle.
We vote on punch cards in my county. I think Clermont County was the only one that didn't, and iirc they were using optical scan machines. Paper trails everywhere if a recount was justified.
7 weeks before the special election I voted in the primary - for Victoria Wulsin, not Paul Hackett. I'd looked at what little I could find on the candidates, figured he'd probably win and I wouldn't mind voting for him, but since it didn't really matter which sacrificial lamb we served up I punched the hole for the most liberal one. It wasn't easy to find out about the Dems - almost all the coverage was on the Rethugs, given that the CW was that their primary was effectively the election.
After the primary, hearing Paul's positions, I gradually caught fire. I got in contact with the local Dems, signed up for campaign work, went out and pounded the pavement to turn out the vote for Paul. So did a bunch of other people. Seeing that much activity in our little backwater, I can't imagine what it must have been like in Hamilton and Clermont counties.
So on Tuesday evening, 45 minutes brfore the polls closed, I finished my last swing through my home precinct and headed back to the Plumbers and Pipefitters union hall to suck up some water and turn in my voter list. Sitting around in a haze of exhaustion, nothing more to be done, we concluded that we had a chance. You have no idea what a difference that was in OH-2, nor how much effort it took to get that far.
Yeah, I'd rather Paul had won. Would you rather I sat on my hands next time around, or went out and pounded the pavement again? If the only advice you have is the counsel of despair, just STFU.
MOM!!!!
I said hi and welcome back on the lower thread but I think you'd already moved up here.
Glad gramma is doing ok.
Partly it could be the greater difficulty women who don't have earnings have in leaving.
And let's not forget the kids. Being preggers and having another child to worry about feeding doesn't make the decision any easier.
And if he's convicted, the boys in the Big House are just gonna LOVE him!
The concept of prisoners enforcing their own moral code is strange, but it does happen.
People who whine about "moral relativism" never seem to explain why different people at different times and in different enviroments come up with different answers regarding what's over the line and what is not.
Atrios, thank you for the attention you gave to this case.
If the only advice you have is the counsel of despair, just STFU.
Ahianne
Ahianne:
I thanked you then and I'll thank you again for everything you did for Hackett. And I hope you're out there again in '06.
But let's not jump down each other's throats here.
Cynicism and despair are understandable emotions after the last 15 years or so.
One of the great things about this blog is we can all come here and vent when those feelings get too big.
Partly it could be the greater difficulty women who don't have earnings have in leaving.
And let's not forget the kids. Being preggers and having another child to worry about feeding doesn't make the decision any easier.
flory, Business Manager
I've always noticed that the guys who beat their chests and say "No wife of MINE is going to WORK!" are the first ones who ditch the wife and kids down the line and leave them with shit!
I did that in my marriage. I stuck around LONG after I should have split.
Yeah, that's too bad but at least it's over.
Yeah, but you can't get 24 years back.
Oh well...........
Cynicism is fine by me. Despair? Vent only if you must. Preaching that we should all despair, as WGG does frequently? STFU!
Maybe we're doomed anyway, but giving up guarantees our doom, does our enemies' work for them.
Uh, Hi, Anne?
tantalizingly close
heartbreakingly close
unbelievably close
amazingly close
close only counts in hand grenades, horse shoes and (now, spinoza tells me) trailer hitches...
i admire and support and praise you for your efforts...in your place i'da done the same (well, i DID the same, for MoveOn GOTV, in Nov.)
still, i have no hope for the franchise...it is hopelessly, and probably irremediably corrupted, and will never be cleasned, because to do so would require elected officials to create and endorse programs which might threaten their seats, and you know as sure as dinosaurs make little green footballs, that won't happen...ever...
you got no choice but to work it, but do it for love, not results, cuz they're not gonna happen...
we had one chance, in the Congress, in january, 2000. the rich, white, complacent Dumbocraps shit all over it, despite the furious pleadings of their constituents and the heroic activity of the black caucus...
most times we only get one chance...
i'm afraid we had ours, and the shit-lickers blew it...
.
WGG - This is exactly the kind of post that I wish you would keep to yourself. You're saying we're going to lose, no matter what we do.You recall Ted Strickland, Congressman for OH-6? Used to be my representative till the 2001 gerrymandering? He lost one race in the old OH-6, as an incumbent. Was replaced by one of the stupidest Rethug congressmen in the country. Ran again next time around and retook the seat.
OK, I know you're not the enemy. You're a memmber of the community here. But your little sermons of despair aren't helping a damn thing. Maybe YOU can keep fighting with no hope, but how many people's wills are you wearing down?
Me? I live in Fucking OH-2. I know that coming this close is a sign of hope. If you have none, please do the rest of us a favor and put a cork in it.
Not sure if it was already stated but one of the means by which the police catch such criminals is by assuming that the less professional, almost iceman-like killers will return to the scene of a crime to inspect their acts for signs they can be liked back to them; in this case Miss Figueroa's body(RIP).
I should think this will be an open and shut case. No chance of parole, no chance of a light sentence. Some will suggest that this case is evidence for need of a death penalty but I think the best thing for all involved is to have this punk go into prison for the rest of his life and become someone's bitch.
MYOB'
.
I think people like Peterson, and this fellow who killed Figueroa, do act selfishly. Most murder is done with either rage, selfishness, or they are mentally disturbed.
As far as murdering someone because they are carrying a child that you did not want, I'll say why? Even if the mother wants the child, you can either duck your responsibilities ( child support ) and run. Or accept them. Murder should not be an option.
I mean look at me, I don't believe in bringing new life into a world as sad, corrupt, and evil as this one is. So I don't have children, that's my perogative. I care about the people already here however, I wish to help them. Plus, the way mankind acts, i'm seriously debating whether the human race should continue. Not that it's up to me, or whether it's in my power, because it's not. Futhermore, I would not do anything to bring about it's demise.
Alas about children, people think otherwise and they will procreate.
But ff you did not want them, don't have them. To kill afterwards is selfish, evil and only reinforces my theory on the creulty of mankind.
Why do women do it? One reason I've been given is that, as pointed out, the inherant violence is a sign of insecurity. "Oh, he's just an insecure little boy!" she squeeled. But let's not kid ourselves... there's a vicarious enjoyment of that violence too. People fear that man. His name is known. Thus he's an alpha male, at least in human social terms. So is the man with money who can buy and sell your ass. And each one is, theortically, able to protect your children, and yourself, from other men. Yes, it may mean beatings for you too, but it's always the Stranger women seem to fear; Most rapes, most violence happen at the hands of someone you know, but it's the imaginary man who might be in the bushes that terrifies you, not the partner who comes home and punches you every night.
And of course, danger is just plain sexy to many people, men and women... It's a cliche, but nice is boring, nice is considered wet. Anyone who ever tells you "I've got a nice partner", is someone who's had the danger and wants to disaassociate themselves with that word. It doesn't mean that their partner is considerate and sensitive and decent ALL the time. Because no one actually wants that.
And people whispering "he's bad for her" just exagerates that sense of sexiness. All these risks, and I yet stay with him, I'll bet they must think he's really good in some other way! Besides, they are all just jealous they aren't with him, and aren't wise enough to see his hidden specialness, like me...
No, many, many women do like bastards. Not trolls, because they are just sad, destructive little failures. But the macho, charismatic, selfish bastard, the one who is that way because from a very early age he was succesful with women and proceeded to learn how to be even more succesful with women, he's a hero to women. The one who has slept with fifty women, many at the same time, and is now sleeping with you... Well, you tell yourself that makes you 1st out of 50, when really, you are only the 51st. But as long as you still have him in a small way, you can imagine he's all yours. And he KNOWS this, which is why he does it.
But sometimes, sadly, they turn out to be more than calculatingly cruel and selfish. Sometimes they genuinely are monsters rather than gigalo's. But nature doesn't care. The children are usually born by then, and the violent male gene is already passed on... and the once more the pattern will repeat.
The children are usually born by then, and the violent male gene is already passed on... and the once more the pattern will repeat.
'Cause it's scientifically proven, you know, all behaviour has a genetic cause.
YOU DON'T GET IT, TerryC. BartCop does. Poaches, like OJ, has evidence behind him. PETERSON NEVER DID, and only had hysteria behind him.
God, this legal system makes me sick somethime.
YOU DON'T GET IT, TerryC. BartCop does. Poaches, like OJ, has evidence behind him. PETERSON NEVER DID, and only had hysteria behind him.
God, this legal system makes me sick somethime.
OneTopJob6
Oh, please!
Scotty Boy had motive and opportunity.
And, no, I don't buy the Satanic cult shit.
"many, many women do like bastards"
I never got that.
But ff you did not want them, don't have them. To kill afterwards is selfish, evil and only reinforces my theory on the creulty of mankind.
Jason Gooljar |
If they want to be daddies, tell the women so.
Then use a condom.
Why is it always the women's responsibility, anyway, to do the contraception thing?
Sorry - If they DON'T want to be daddies, they should tell the women so.
"Sad, though not unexpected. At least it seems that the perp has been caught." - Atrios
What, you are not blaming it on Bush? Surprising.
Hows about some more focus on why the guy thought murdering her was a great option, rather than why she liked a guy like him?
Echidne, you've really surprised me with your comments that you would never go for a "guy like that", and niether would your friends....You can't always tell, you know.
As to why women don't up and leave, come on!!!!! You people are smarter than that! It's not like the guy smacks you on your first date. It's slow, it's subtle. By the time you realize how deep you're in, it's quite dangerous to leave. We all know leaving an abuser is a very dangerous time for a woman.
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