HULK SMASH!!!
frist?
omg, that's like the 2nd time in all of my commenting life! 
Two years at most.
go forth!
And I was thaaaat close.
5 years= amount of time for KBR etc to drain national coffers dry and overextend US credit completely.
dead guardsmen...not really their concern.
Cindy Sheehan puts it nicely in a diary over at kos:
"I got an email the other day and it said, `Cindy if you didn't use so much profanity .... there's people on the fence that get offended.'
"And you know what I said? `You know what? You know what, god damn it? How in the world is anybody still sitting on that fence?'
"If you fall on the side that is pro-George and pro-war, you get your ass over to Iraq, and take the place of somebody who wants to come home. And if you fall on the side that is against this war and against George Bush, stand up and speak out."
"It's our only hope"
Aaaaah, the soft bigotry of low expectations again rears its ugly head.
I got nothing.....
I've always enjoyed reading Matt's stuff, and was kinda put off by the 'Mega-blog' thing at first -- but, I think he's really found his niche there at TPM. Always great stuff.
Do you think any of the folks making these decisions have the slightest regard for what takes place in Iraq any time after January 21, 2009 ?
"And you know what I said? `You know what? You know what, god damn it? How in the world is anybody still sitting on that fence?'
Word.
Chidyke, how the hell are ya?
This guard meltdown - If Fla. has a bad hurricane year will it leave residents to fend for themselves mostly?
I've been wondering what happens to real home security when you ship the guard out of country. There will be less preparedness for any emergency, right?
How in the world is anybody still sitting on that fence?
She shoots! She scores!!
Most of those "still on the fence" are the press... who don't want to be on record one way or another.
21st Century Mugwumps: Mugs on one side of the fence, and 'wumps' on the other.
This man, facing off against thousands, is surely no chickenhawk. He's a Holy Warrior, after all.
He could limit himself to killing only fag insurgents.
5 years= amount of time for KBR etc to drain national coffers dry and overextend US credit completely.
dead guardsmen...not really their concern.
chicago dyke
He's got to get on with his life. Didn't you hear him?
chicago dyke has gotten the entire set of the Republican new ideas into one sentence. Since it also includes the entire message of the commercial media this is a feat comparable to Hillel's condensation of the Torah.
I wish my name was chicago. It's got a certain something that EPT just lacks.
Bring home the troops - send in the chickenhawks!
This man, facing off against thousands, is surely no chickenhawk. He's a Holy Warrior, after all.
Let's see how he does with a bunch of La Leche League members. Then we'll see how courageous he really is.
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Seriously......
And remember, kids: You don't "support the troops" by supporting the LIES that KILL THEM!
We're in Iraq for decades. Let's start accepting that, debating that, and making that common knowledge.
For decades we're going to have body bags, instability, graft, corruption, rising fuel prices and increased economic instability.
Until we all accept there's a turd on the table, we're not going to do anything about it. We're just going to complain about the smell.
Permanent bases in Iraq mean that we intend to remain in control of Iraq, permanently. They'll have autnomy when we've stolen all of their oil.
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Crawl into his spiderhole with a case of vodka?
This guard meltdown - If Fla. has a bad hurricane year will it leave residents to fend for themselves mostly?
LADYSMITH, Wis. (AP) — The damage estimate from a Labor Day tornado that tore through this northwestern Wisconsin town topped the $20 million mark as state officials promised immediate help in money, loans and National Guard troops to rebuild the community. "You just thank God nobody was killed," Gov. Scott McCallum said after touring the area Tuesday.
This was from a 2002 article. Wonder how many Guardsmen there are to help clean up after the latest round of tornadoes?
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
I wouldn't allow him within the same zipcode of any management position.
How in the world is anybody still sitting on that fence?
Is there any word on her mother and on when/if she is going back to Crawford?
I wouldn't allow him within the same zipcode of any management position.
He'll be on a whole bunch of Boards of Directors, operating controls that aren't attached to anything.
Kind of like now.
"What will GW do as ex-president?"
Time.
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Reality TV. Make him eat weird shit then kick him off the whatever
Bushie and Daddie can fly to the same Carlyle meetings, look inappropriate at any gathering of ex-presidents, etc.
Cindy Sheehan puts it nicely in a diary over at kos:
"I got an email the other day and it said, `Cindy if you didn't use so much profanity .... there's people on the fence that get offended.'
Oh, please - they need to get their asses OFF the "fence."
They don't think the war is "offensive."
Gutless nitwits!
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Drive more businesses into the ground?
my fondest hope is that Bush & Cheney do a reality show called "Baghdad Vice"...
Summer 2006, we will be having to send a bunch of people on their 3rd tours of Iraq. A whole bunch. I know some are scheduled for tour #3 this December. It's going to break the Army.
THIS IS FUCKING STUPID:
Bush links Iraq war with Sept. 11 attacks
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9020634/
Write, e-mail tell your buddies - He cannot stop lying about the Iraq wa - It's surreal
Fuck this man with the truth!
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Whatever it is - I guaran-damn-tee it WON'T be in Crawford.
What I find strange, is there is no talk of a draft! With the Army and Reserves nearly broken already, and not getting better in the next 36 months, how is it possible that there is no congress critter or Brookings Institute/Heritage Foundation talking head pushing the idea?
Or are they waiting for disaster to strike, for the right moment - new products never get rolled out in August, as it's been said.
This guard meltdown - If Fla. has a bad hurricane year will it leave residents to fend for themselves mostly?
Yes.
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Baseball commissioner?
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Reagan's first ex year, picking up his payments for selling the country to the highest bidder, only many times over.
I don't think that the press will be looking when his den of thieves pick up their gift watches this time.
Strange how people like Bill O'Reilly want us to "win" in Iraq but can't define what victory means beyond the now unattainable goal of leaving behind some sort of stable government that will hold Iraq together and will sell us oil real cheap.
If that's going to happen, you need a huge increase in manpower and a massive occupational footprint that imposes a structure on those people. As Papa Bush used to say, "Na ga hapn"
Oops -- looks like another "aluminum tubes" story:
U.N. nuclear agency tests have concluded that traces of highly enriched uranium on centrifuge parts were from imported equipment _ rather than from any enrichment activities by Iran, a senior Western diplomat said Saturday.
The findings support Iran's claims that the material entered the country together with centrifuge parts provided by Pakistan. ...
"The source of contamination was not related to Iran," said Iran Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi. "We are sure the source is not internal."
The United States has alleged the material was produced by Tehran and the particles were evidence that Iran was experimenting with producing highly enriched uranium, which is only used in nuclear weapons.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...5082000616.html
What I find strange, is there is no talk of a draft!
They can't talk about a draft- a draft might affect their little overpriviledged darlings.
res -- she said yesterday on her Kos diary that her mom is still in ICU and can't speak, but they got a couple of laughs out of her so she seems to be cognitively together, at least to some degree.
I'd be surprised if she was able to leave before the end of August.
About that CENTCOM assessment: Let me see if I understand this.
The American people need to stay behind Operation Enduring Clusterfuck for another TWO TO FIVE YEARS, in spite of the fact that the Guard and Reserves are EXPECTED to melt down in the next year and a half. Are the G&R not a very significant portion of deployed forces? And if they're no longer deployable, with what fucking army are we going to continue to fight this pointless exercise? Do they imagine that the people will stay behind this if there's a draft? Or even if not?
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
I would insert pithy comment here about a certain television commercial about pace picante sauce and the new jerseyians who make it. But that might be considered a threat. So I'll just make the implication of said pithy comment.
More from Cindy Sheehan's diary:
One thing I haven't noticed or become aware of though is an increased number of pro-war, pro-Bush people on the other side of the fence enlisting to go and fight George Bush's war for imperialism and insatiable greed. The pro-peace side has gotten off their apathetic butts to be warriors for peace and justice. Where are the pro-war people? Everyday at Camp Casey we have a couple of anti-peace people on the other side of the road holding up signs that remind me that "Freedom isn't Free" but I don't see them putting their money where their mouths are. I don't think they are willing to pay even a small down payment for freedom by sacrificing their own blood or the flesh of their children. I still challenge them to go to Iraq and let another soldier come home. Perhaps a soldier that is on his/her third tour of duty, or one that has been stop-lossed after serving his/her country nobly and selflessly, only to be held hostage in Iraq by power mad hypocrites who have a long history of avoiding putting their own skin in the game.
Contrary to what the main stream media thinks, I did not just fall off a pumpkin truck in Crawford, Tx. on that scorchingly hot day two weeks ago. I have been writing, speaking, testifying in front of Congressional committees, lobbying Congress, and doing interviews for over a year now. I have been pretty well known in the progressive, peace community and I had many, many supporters before I even left California. The people who supported me did so because they know that I uncompromisingly tell the truth about this war. I have stood up and said: "My son died for NOTHING, and George Bush and his evil cabal and their reckless policies killed him. My son was sent to fight in a war that had no basis in reality and was killed for it." I have never said "pretty please" or "thank you." I have never said anything wishy-washy like he uses "Patriotic Rhetoric." I say my son died for LIES. George Bush LIED to us and he knew he was LYING. The Downing Street Memos dated 23 July, 2002 prove that he knew that Saddam didn't have WMD's or any ties to Al Qaeda. I believe that George lied and he knew he was lying. He didn't use patriotic rhetoric. He lied and made us afraid of ghosts that weren't there. Now he is using patriotic rhetoric to keep the U.S. military presence in Iraq: Patriotic rhetoric that is based on greed and nothing else.
Now I am being vilified and dragged through the mud by the righties and so-called "fair and balanced" main stream media who are afraid of the truth and can't face someone who tells it by telling any truth of their own. Now they have to twist, distort, lie, and scrutinize anything I have ever said when they never scrutinize anything that George Bush said or is saying. Instead of asking George or Scotty McClellan if he will meet with me, why aren't they asking the questions they should have been asking all along: "Why are our young people fighting, dying, and killing in Iraq? What is this noble cause you are sending our young people to Iraq for? What do you hope to accomplish there? Why did you tell us there were WMD's and ties to Al Qaeda when you knew there weren't? Why did you lie to us? Why did you lie to the American people? Why did you lie to the world? Why are our nation's children still in harm's way and dying everyday when we all know you lied? Why do you continually say we have to `complete the mission' when you know damn well you have no idea what that mission is and you can change it at will like you change your cowboy shirts?"
No wonder all the brownshirts crap in their pants when she walks into the room!
Baseball commissioner?
Wonder if Jose Canseco and Raffy Palmeiro ever hooked their ex-boss up with any of those good anabolic steroids?
Mr. 45-beat Resting Heart Rate, and all...
Summer 2006, we will be having to send a bunch of people on their 3rd tours of Iraq. A whole bunch. I know some are scheduled for tour #3 this December. It's going to break the Army.
trifecta
When I was at DFW last week there was a whole bunch of troops there rotating thru on a two-week R&R. I bought a couple of them a beer and talked for awhile.
One guy was going to see his baby girl for the second time since she was born - she was almost 1 year old. He's going back to finish his second tour and is already scheduled for his third deployment. You could see the utter despair in his eyes when he talked about that third deployment. 1000 yard stare, indeed.
What, me worry about the future? I mean; the rapture is comin' enny day now...
heh-heh
/GWB
FLG -
I suppose they can't just say "draft the poor people" or "You must earn over $xx,xxx" to become exempt from the draft". Too blatant, wouldn't play well in Jeebusland with the rural/"red state" rubes.
Catching up on this weeks Daily Shows.
High-larious bit with Carrell and Stewart imitating Pirro's announcement gaffe.
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
All kidding aside. I really do want to know and I can't stand the wait. Lets get him started on that tomorrow.
Reality TV. Make him eat weird shit then kick him off the whatever
bill
Sears Tower?
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
(Have I mentioned today that the only thing I hate more than Bush is Hell-o-freaking-scan?)
Anyway, he'll be a teevee preacher, for sure.
Sears Tower?
Virginia
That works.
Mr. 45-beat Resting Heart Rate, and all...
Once he's done trouncing Lance Armnstrong in a sprint, and miraculously clearing out the brush and stables like Hercules, Bush should really play some golf with Kim Jong-Il.
The media response would be interesting. - matching scores of 18? We can do this.
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Pretty much what he does now, I suppose. Vacation, and fuck with people.
Sheehan is awesome.
"They know that if we do not confront these evil men abroad, we will have to face them one day in our own cities and streets, and they know that the safety and security of every American is at stake in this war, and they know we will prevail," he said.
One of Little Boots' speachifiers ought to give the boy a new line. This one has become a hackneyed cliche.
Really, that's OK by me tho since folks is hip to his BS now.
Instead, we seem to have a plan that calls for the deployment of forces that we do not expect will exist.
Haven't you heard about the force multiplers?
Poll of the day.
Did I say: GO!
The thing that irritates me the most are the idiots, including the media and service members, who claim those fighting in Iraq are fighting for our *freedoms.* Bullshit! Our freedom never depended on ridding Iraq of Saddam and even a child knows that. Proof positive that Chimp's propaganda campaign works.
What I find strange, is there is no talk of a draft! With the Army and Reserves nearly broken already, and not getting better in the next 36 months, how is it possible that there is no congress critter or Brookings Institute/Heritage Foundation talking head pushing the idea?
Like all other Bush Crime Family 'policies' they're assuming they can create their own reality.
A draft will destroy their chances in 2006 -- unless they can find a Dem stupid enough to introduce the idea. Their plan is to draw down enough troops in summer/fall 2006 to be able to claim victory and win the elections, then worry about Iraq afterwards. Georgie won't EVER push for a draft -- that would require admitting he and Dummy were wrong in planning this war. And Bunnypants is never farking wrong.
Until then, Jeebus and the Invisible Cloud Being will keep things going for them.
Shorter AT:
THIS IS FUCKING STUPID:
Bush
Have to run, have some music y'all:
http://greatscat.blogspot.com/20...y-
music_19.html
Have a great day.
Chimp boy and Pickles will go into the comedy business after a hilarious impromto afternoon of slapstick construction shenanigans on a habitat building site. Reporters on the scene were surprised at the way the Chimpster kept at it after cutting off three fingers with a skill saw. Of course Pickles was still screaming and spurting blood from her mangled hand during the interview, so she was not available for comments.
When things are “fucked up,” say so openly and not just to a Rolling Stone interviewer. If personally attacked, challenge the accusers immediately and forcefully with withering contempt. Temper that frankness with an ounce of self-deprecating humor, a dash of laughter at the expense of the sitting President and the national press Corps, and voila, you have a winning recipe.
i don't know if this fits the thread, but too good not to share, SWNS. Sudden Withdrawal of Nutsack Syndrome
i think howard dean and paul hackett prove the point. and god knows things are only sure to get more fucked up in the future. 5 year plan my ass. i want my country back NOW!
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
oh, i don't think you have to worry about him. although hs stint as prezwit will end, he'll be anti-christ for life. maybe longer.
The law for the public under this administration:
Ask a ridiculously obvious question, get no answer.
Fun!
Reagan's first ex year, picking up his payments for selling the country to the highest bidder, only many times over.
I don't think that the press will be looking when his den of thieves pick up their gift watches this time.
EPT
I was wondering about this recently. There was a minor shitstorm about St. Ronnie's incredibly tacky first year post-presidency. The not-quite completely sold out press corpse were disgusted enough to cover it.
What are the chances the press will even notice this time 'round? Unless you've got the Clenis™ and Poppy heading up disaster relief while Bunnypants is busy shilling for Halliburton. Then they might notice.
Dave,
I took that poll you linked to and nearly passed out that 24% of those who took the poll voted that they were neutral. WTF?
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
perhaps he can get a job with a horse breeder. he's certainly got experience.
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
He invaded Iraq so as to import massive quantities of brush, which he will then clear.
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Don't know, but one thing is for certain, with his business background Cheney, sure as hell doesn't want him at Halliburton.
I think George Bush will just play video games, nap, and ride his bike, just like he does now.
Are the G&R not a very significant portion of deployed forces? 40%
And if they're no longer deployable, with what fucking army are we going to continue to fight this pointless exercise? Prayer.
Don't know, but one thing is for certain, with his business background Cheney, sure as hell doesn't want him at Halliburton.
The guy's like a divining rod for failure. A dowser for fuckups.
Fuck this man with the truth!
And the truth is that none of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi. 15 Suadis, 2 United Arab Emirates, 1 Egyptian and 1 Lebanese ( I might be wrong on the Lebanese one) 15 Saudis to 0 Iraqis. Look at who Bush is holding hands with.
I took that poll you linked to and nearly passed out that 24% of those who took the poll voted that they were neutral. WTF?
bigvic | Email | 08.20.05 - 1:01 pm | #
um, i saw 26 PEOPLE voted neutral, not 26%.
although i wonder why they would bother voting?
bush radio address: stay the course! 9/11! terror! freedom! be afraid!
just played on cnn.
. The not-quite completely sold out press corpse were disgusted enough to cover it.
What are the chances the press will even notice this time 'round?
Hahahahahaha. Quite the joker today.
And if they're no longer deployable, with what fucking army are we going to continue to fight this pointless exercise? Prayer.
Dear GOD (or jeebus, or whoever the fuck) Please kill and maim our enemies over there so we don't have to fight them here (except the liberals, we want to do that ourselves---hehehe). Oh and, while I got yer ear, can you send me another bottle of whiskey, mines about to run out.
In yer name.
Heyman.
cnn reporting on iraqi constitution deadline. i think they just re-ran last week's report. hasn't changed a bit.
How is it, exactly, that we're supposed to prevail over a five year timeline if the Reserve and Guard components of the Army "melt-down" over the next 36 months?
the 250,000 iraqi national army which were building.
==============
A SOUTHERN IRAQ MILITARY FACILITY, Feb. 15, 2005 – Between 8,000 and 10,000 men arrived by foot, bus and other means by sun-up Feb. 14 at an airfield outside an Iraqi army base to join the Iraq's army, officials said.
Of that, about 5,000 made it through a screening process that led them onto the base, which is home to several thousand Iraqi soldiers and a contingent of U.S. servicemembers. Most will be transferred to other bases in Iraq to supplement existing units, officials said.
The process was a result of the largest recruitment effort for the Iraqi army to date, said U.S. Navy Lt. Cmdr. Anthony Woodley of Multinational Security Transition Command Iraq.
Many recruits showed up with proof that they were serving when Saddam Hussein's regime fell and were subsequently released from duty. Former Iraqi army Maj. Hussien Ali Kadhun, 48, traveled about an hour and a half by bus to rejoin.
"I want to serve my country and fight the terrorists," he said through a translator. Ali Kadhun said he graduated from a military college in 1979 with a bachelor's degree in military science. He returned to school to study law shortly after his release from the army in 2003.
Another former soldier, Hakeem Shaial Hassan, 27, worked as a farmer after his first stint in the Army. It took him nearly four hours to get to the airfield with a group of friends. His quest for service would provide him and his family with a better income. New recruits earn 420,380 dinars a month, about $212 in U.S. dollars, officials said.
"I am proud that I made it," Shaial Hassan said through an interpreter.
http://www.pentagon.mil/news/
Feb...2005021501.html
Hahahahahaha. Quite the joker today.
bigvic
Laughter.
It's my gift to Left Blogistan. 
Dear GOD (or jeebus, or whoever the fuck) Please kill and maim our enemies over there so we don't have to fight them here (except the liberals, we want to do that ourselves---hehehe).
Smallfish is full of piss and vinegar today. That is HIGHlarious.
cnn reporting on iraqi constitution deadline. i think they just re-ran last week's report. hasn't changed a bit.
dirk gently
For the real scoop on that situation, you should check here.
I suppose they can't just say "draft the poor people" or "You must earn over $xx,xxx" to become exempt from the draft". Too blatant, wouldn't play well in Jeebusland with the rural/"red state" rubes.
foilhatgrrl | 08.20.05 - 12:51 pm | # .........................................Heres how they do it:The bush team announces a draft to replace the National Guard in Iraq and it once again becomes the safe haven for the children of the aristocrats.Just like how bush beat combat duty.Same as it ever was.Same as it ever was.
I like Gilliard's idea: the 'Ronald Reagan Brigade'. If the intellectual advocates of Operation Iraqi Clusterfuck really believe that they're facing fascism, then they ought to follow the model of the Spanish Civil War.
On second thought maybe Cheney should hire him to run Halliburton. Then we could all sit back and watch Halliburton go bankrupt.
Don't know, but one thing is for certain, with his business background Cheney, sure as hell doesn't want him at Halliburton
Talked to a guy at a party couple weeks ago that had been one of the players at Halliburton. Apparently Cheney left things in a little bit of a mess. Don't think he will be invited back.
My son was sent to fight in a war that had no basis in reality and was killed for it." I have never said "pretty please" or "thank you." I have never said anything wishy-washy like he uses "Patriotic Rhetoric." I say my son died for LIES. George Bush LIED to us and he knew he was LYING.
whoa, i mentioned howard and paul, but i forgot Cindy no Sudden Withdrawal of Nutsack Syndrome there.
http://www.pentagon.mil/news/ Feb...2005021501.html
Oh, now thats a reliable source.
I'm scratching my head at a segment I caught part of on Faux just now. Tony Snow (who seems to have hit fifth gear in the rapid aging process) was talking to former ambassador Mark Ginsberg and ret. Marine Col. Bill Cowans about Eyerack. Cowans was noting that most of the military "advisors" we are embedding with Iraqi forces are not trained to be advisors, may not know the language or anything about the people they are advising, and may even have *no experience* in the topic on which they are advising. He said a few of the Marine advisors get a short, "Advising 101" course before going over, and the Army guys get zilch. He was pretty much saying the security handover thing is not gonna work as undertaken. Ginsberg said in effect that the civil war has already begun and that we can do nothing about it, that we are not even hearing about in media headlines, the action mostly outside Baghdad with the settling of old scores and the starting of "new scores", mainly Sunni/Shia mayhem of major proportions, unreported in the US.
Tony Snow was like, "Gosh! That bad? OK, we'll be right back."
I was like, "Who hit these guys with the reality stick?".
-
I don't think the Iraq debacle will itself cause a draft.
But something else will. These dipshits are gunslingers and they haven't sated their bloodlust yet.
And the ~20,000 private company Hessians now in Iraq aren't going to make up the slack.
Oh, fuck Reuters:
Critics say Iraq had nothing to do with the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington and that the administration has tried to tie Iraq to terrorism since the war to justify its actions.
Critics say?
How about this line:
'Iraq had nothing to do with the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, and critics say that the administration has tried to tie Iraq to terrorism since the war to justify its actions'?
Or this:
'Iraq had nothing to do with the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, but the administration has tried to tie Iraq to terrorism since the war to justify its actions'?
Apparently Cheney left things in a little bit of a mess. Don't think he will be invited back.
chris/tx
The last guy is always blamed for what's wrong today.
Cheney doesn't need to go back. With his deferred compensation, his great-grandchildren are set for life.
First!
.
Dear GOD (or jeebus, or whoever the fuck) Please kill and maim our enemies over there so we don't have to fight them here
and lord, don't forget about justices stephens, breyer, and ginsburg.
in thy homicidal name we prey [sic],
amen.
Thomas Hammes, a retired Marine colonel who has written a book on anti-insurgency tactics, said ground commanders have been saying that they don't have enough troops to cover the country, despite the Pentagon's insistence that they do.
Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita said Sunday, “I don't doubt every colonel wishes he had more in his area, but the decisions about how troops are (deployed) are made by the commanders above them.”
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said that he would authorize an increase in the number of troops in Iraq if top commanders asked for them. The Pentagon says that so far they haven't.
I guess they wanta keep their top commander jobs.
what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Reality TV. Make him eat weird shit then kick him off the whatever
I vote we leave him on the island -- and burn all the boats.
Y'know, Iraq might do better without a written constitution.
I always thought it was bizarre that GOP wingers were always so rah rah for war. I guess after W kills off enough red state soldiers they may want to reconsider their position. then blame the Dems for the whole damned thing.
Tony Snow was like, "Gosh! That bad? OK, we'll be right back."
Snow [off camera]: who booked those pansey liberal surrender monkeys on my show?
may not know the language or anything about the people they are advising, and may even have *no experience* in the topic on which they are advising.
And this news, why? How?
I know. It's intended as... Oh fuck! Nevermind.
I vote we leave him on the island -- and burn all the boats.
Toonscribe | Email | 08.20.05 - 1:18 pm | #
it's been a long time since i've seen a good old fashioned viking funeral.
/thor
flory - Cheney decided to buy the company with all the asbestos liability which has turned out to be much greater than they estimated. It has been a real albatross around Halliburtons neck, and still is. Probably one of the biggest fiasco's in recent M&A's corporate history.
TO be fair. Fox does have to let their viwers down off their bubble slowly, so as to not endanger the lives of millions of the cult followers.
He was pretty much saying the security handover thing is not gonna work as undertaken.
Who cares? Once our troops are outa there, its not like the media are gonna be writing any stories about it.
most unnecessary "newz" report of the day: Merk Appeals Vioxx Verdict
Afternoon all.
I didn't catch where Yglesias addresses what the "plan" was in the first place. Can HE summarize what our military is supposed to be accomplishing in Iraq, specifically?
It has been a real albatross around Halliburtons neck, and still is. Probably one of the biggest fiasco's in recent M&A's corporate history.
chris/tx
So naturally, that makes him attractive to Shrub. The moron found a bigger fuck-up than himself and promoted him. You cannot make this shit UP!
I didn't catch where Yglesias addresses what the "plan" was in the first place. Can HE summarize what our military is supposed to be accomplishing in Iraq, specifically?
9/11! terrorists! yellowcake! white icing! freeeeeeeee-dom!
real patriots don't ask questions! stay the course!
This is the inevitable result you can always expect from a trigger- happy, fantasyland commander-in-chief, who regards reading anything of greater substance than People magazine as the mark of a pussy.
it has been a real albatross around Halliburtons neck, and still is.
Yeah - I know. That's why they were trying to slip the 'freedom from asbestos liability' legislation thru.
My point was just that all the people now blaming Cheney for the fuck-up were undoubtedly writing detailed analyses in support of it back in the day.
It's always the last guys fault. Absolves anyone still employed of blame.
It has been a real albatross around Halliburtons neck, and still is
ALBATROSS! ALBATROSS!
ok, my battery is at 21%, rehearsal is in 15 minutes, and i've been reduced to shouting sentance fragments and single words. time to go. see youse later, yeah?
Merk Appeals Vioxx Verdict
Well DUH!
Before I get off on a rant, does anyone know if that 250 million dollar judgement was for a single ligitaor or was it for a whole buncha people?
I'm thinking it's for one person.
Ithink that that amount really is excessive. 250 million dollars in damages really helps make the claim that tort reform is a necessity (which I dont believe). I don't know what the answer is, but I can believe that there are many who should share in this "award". Surely it was not only one person who died asa result of this drug.
I do understand that the jury was sending a message. But there should be other factors in deciding how much "settlement should be awarded.
I guess I'm talking both sides of the argument. But this is absurdly ridiculous.
A SOUTHERN IRAQ MILITARY FACILITY, Feb. 15, 2005 – Between 8,000 and 10,000 men arrived by foot, bus and other means by sun-up Feb. 14 at an airfield outside an Iraqi army base to join the Iraq's army, officials said.
How do they separate the evil Iraqis from the nonevil ones? An evil Iraqi might pretend to be nonevil, and lower the morale of the whole unit.
My point was just that all the people now blaming Cheney for the fuck-up were undoubtedly writing detailed analyses in support of it back in the day.
True. As the story goes, they all thought Cheney would get legislation passed (as you noted) after they bought the company (Dresser?) to limit the liability on asbestos damage.
The evil ones have autographed copies of Rick Santorum's new book?
May I nominate Norah O'Donnell to be the Wanker of the Day?
For explanation, go to today's Daily Howler and scroll down a bit . . .
I haven't posted in a while, and I need another cup of coffee this morning, but I do want to echo this:
Sheehan is incredibly good. That bit that dave quoted above is magnificent. The anti-war movement could not ask for a better spokesperson.
Personally, I think there is much to be said of democrats or anyone to argue that the national guards are not to be used in any military operations that take place outside U.S borders.
They're called the 'National' Guard for a reason, and to use them merely as an extension of the two main branches of the military belies their original intent based upon what I know it to have been. But since the downgrading of the military in the 90's as part of the so-called 'peace dividend' the national guard was made more of a supplement to the army and navy as many men and women wanted to serve their country should it be directly attacked, rather than be part of an invasion force. Some might suggest that 9/11 was such an attack, and the iraq war is our counter attack, but that still remains a duty for the army and navy, not the national guard.
The same thing can also be said of the army reserves. When the reserves are called up from the get-go then serious questions need to be asked whether they really are 'reserves' and not just another supplement to the army. In that case they should decide to stop using the name reserves and simply call them front line troops for the army rather than real 'reserves'.
MYOB'
.
How do they separate the evil Iraqis from the nonevil ones? An evil Iraqi might pretend to be nonevil, and lower the morale of the whole unit.
I'd be more worried about the "evil" Iraqis taking military training and then using it for the resistance, which is evidently just what's been happening with about 50% of the trainees (can't recall where I saw that statistic, unfortunately)
Tony Snow was like, "Gosh! That bad? OK, we'll be right back."
I was like, "Who hit these guys with the reality stick?".
I wonder if anyone ever died from a reality stick. It has to be a deadly weapon to the non-reality based Bus$Co and friends.
Right now, Halliburton is paid to pump, ship and sell Iraqi Oil. Halliburton is also paid to keep the oil infrastructure working.
No civilian authority in Iraq has asked Halliburton for a penny of the oil profits. So Halliburton keeps all the profits from the oil sales. Oil who's costs plus bonuses are covered completely by the US taxpayer.
This means big bucks to Halliburton's bottom line. If a Civilian government did require Halliburton to give up any of the oil profits, it would be a loss to the corporation and a loss to the shareholders.
It is therefore Halliburton's corporate duty to prevent an Iraqi government from forming.
If an Iraqi government did gain authority over Halliburton, it would cost Halliburton many millions a month in profits.
250 million dollars in damages really helps make the claim that tort reform is a necessity (which I dont believe)
I believe in tort reform. And I assume we're all focusing on punitive, rather than compensatory damages.
My suggestion is that a personal recovery ceiling be established for puntive damages. A single litigant could receive, say 20 million maximum.
But the jury would have the leeway to hit the motherfucker trillion dollar offender in the nads in an amount that would cause some behavior modification.
The remainder would be placed in escrow and be paid out to bona fide future complainants, whether they be persons, states or municipalities.
Before I get off on a rant, does anyone know if that 250 million dollar judgement was for a single ligitaor or was it for a whole buncha people?
one person. actually, one person and her lawyers, so even if upheld (which it can't be under texas law), she wouldn't really get the whole amount.
3 questions to answer before decrying that the award was too much:
1) how liable was merck? mostly based on how dangerous they knew the drug to be in advance, and what they might have done to conceal that.
2) as a punitive damage, how would a smaller award affected them? $25 million, for example, would be a lot to me, but only the cost of an ad campaign for merck.
3) how much is a life worth?
I wonder if anyone ever died from a reality stick.
Naa, they just give em pacemakers.
OT, but today on Daily Catblogging, special guest star Rex Rabbit!
now i'm late for rehearsal, and only 10% of my ba-
aaaaaaaaaaaargh.
3) how much is a life worth?
Much more than a mere 250 million dollars.
Texas tort reform means that widow's award will be reduced to $2 million, tops. For punitive damages anyway. They don't tell the jury that before deliberations.
Before I get off on a rant, does anyone know if that 250 million dollar judgement was for a single ligitaor or was it for a whole buncha people?
One widow only. Better dump your Merk stock pronto.
Ya, I goota go and get a new power supply for one of my (bad) machines (bad bad bad). And take my daughter to a birthday party.
Be back later, batties.
I believe in tort reform.
Then you are a sucker.
The interesting aside on the Merk lawsuit is the guy that died ran marathons and taught aerobics. Merk was claiming he had a bad valve etc.
The interesting aside on the Merk lawsuit is the guy that died ran marathons and taught aerobics. Merk was claiming he had a bad valve etc.
maybe he meant the castle 'aaaaaaaaargh'
Two of the jurors were on CNN last night. They said the amount was detemined from the amount of money Merck made from Vioxx sales after stonewalling changing the labeling of the drug. It was specifically tied to the money made after they were obviously hiding the problem.
The drug companies are paying way more in advertising than researcch. They cut money from R&D to bring us ads showing that they do R&D. Perhaps we should treat them like tobacco and ban them from the airwaves.
I took that poll you linked to and nearly passed out that 24% of those who took the poll voted that they were neutral. WTF?
The 24 (now 26) was the number of votes, not the percentage. Here's the latest numbers:
I support her effort to meet with Pres. Bush: 2236 Votes, or 67.65%
She's doing more harm than good: 1043 Votes, or 31.55%
I'm neutral on both her and the war: 26 Votes, or 0.786%
And if you haven't voted yet...
I'd be more worried about the "evil" Iraqis taking military training and then using it for the resistance, which is evidently just what's been happening with about 50% of the trainees (can't recall where I saw that statistic, unfortunately)
Pere Ubu | Email | Homepage | 08.20.05 - 1:33 pm | #
Do our lie detectors work in Arabic?
Then you are a sucker.
rorschach
C'mon ror, aren't you going to address the three succeeding paragraphs?
You're not a drive-by dude.
I'm surprised, actually.
Do our lie detectors work in Arabic?
One presumes so, since the leading lie detector people are all based in Israel. No, really. You'd be surprised. So would Larry Franklin, I imagine.
Texas tort reform means that widow's award will be reduced to $2 million, tops. For punitive damages anyway. They don't tell the jury that before deliberations.
TheOtherWashington
Well, you know, it's punitive damages that keep drug companies from investing in new drugs.
Or getting even richer off Americans, since drug prices are regulated in Europe. Where they seem to have plenty of drugs, and pay much less for them.
But only the free market allows the research of new drugs. You see.
Or do you?
the 250,000 iraqi national army which were building.
Yo, brownshirt, that number was debunked long, long ago. I know Unka Karl hasn't been in the boilerroom much lately, what with all the attorney meetings, but you really should try and keep up with the memos. Use of old, inoperative talking points just makes you look like an even bigger asshole (and could be grounds for sending your ass back to the fry station at Jack in the Box)...
U.S. conceding to Iraqi Islamists, negotiators say
Sat Aug 20, 5:20 AM ET
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Islam will be "the main source" of Iraq's law and parliament will observe religious principles, negotiators said on Saturday after what some called a major turn in talks on the constitution and a shift in the U.S. position.
If agreed by Monday's parliamentary deadline, it would appear to be a major concession to Islamist leaders from the Shi'ite Muslim majority and sit uneasily with U.S. insistence on the primacy of democracy and human rights in the new Iraq.
U.S. diplomats, who have been shepherding the process closely, declined immediate comment and at least one secular Kurdish politician said Kurds would try to block such a deal.
But an official from one of the main Shi'ite Islamist parties and a leading Sunni Arab negotiator said agreement had been reached, reversing an understanding reached earlier in the recent talks that Islam would simply be "a main source" of law.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/
20050...nstitution_dc_1
Iraq is, at last, toast.
-
But the jury would have the leeway to hit the motherfucker trillion dollar offender in the nads in an amount that would cause some behavior modification.
The remainder would be placed in escrow and be paid out to bona fide future complainants, whether they be persons, states or municipalities.
Max Planck
Um...the first paragraph states the very purpose of punitive damages.
Now, why the state, or municipality, has any interest in that money, is, frankly, beyond me. "Bona fide" complainants would have to be decided by a court of law. In a civil trial. (That's where we do these things). And if they get a punitive damage award, it should come from the same pocket.
Thus ensuring, in theory, a change in behavior.
If Operation Yellow Elephant is our only hope, I believe that I will go ahead and get addicted to crack, spend all my savings on expensive booze and cheap men, and start eating chocolates for breakfast. Because it will all be over long before I'd have to face the consequences of my actions. Just sayin'
Not much publicity but this is the recruitment story for July. Haven't checked the numbers for consistency.
The active-duty Army reached its recruiting target for the second straight month in July...
The Army National Guard, meanwhile, missed its recruiting goal again, recruiting only 4,712 of 5,920. The Guard has hit its target only once in the last 19 months.
The U.S. Army Reserve also fell short of its target, recruiting 2,131 of 2,585
The active-duty Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps are at or slightly ahead of their year-to-date goals. The Marine and Air Force reserves are also at their goals, but the Air National Guard is behind
Okay, Max. I didn't mean to be flip. But the whole "juries are just giving money away" notion, that was epitomized in the McDonalds coffee incident (which left that woman permanently scarred), is fostered assiduously by the right wing, so as to shut down one of the very few avenues individuals have to address injustices enacted upon them by corporations.
This amount will, of course, not be paid. But it is, as others have pointed out, a huge signal to big pharma not to market dangerous drugs.
It's a good deal, all 'round.
One presumes so, since the leading lie detector people are all based in Israel. No, really. You'd be surprised. So would Larry Franklin, I imagine.
pseudonymous in nc | 08.20.05 - 1:43 pm | #
I hear if you rub brown soap under your armpits, you can beat a lie detector. That's probably just an urban myth, though.
"Homosexuality is Sin, Christ Can Set you Free." The multitudes he displayed the sign for were gay, and included the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus singing the National Anthem.
Oh, boy, if this jerk can protest gays, he can certainly qualify as a good troop!
and in other news...
Blogwhoring alert*
Two Minutes of Hate
Get your hate on
Taking a break.
Have fun, all!
Perhaps we should treat them like tobacco and ban them from the airwaves.
No DTC advertising of prescription medications in the UK. It feels very good. Perhaps your own doctor isn't up to speed with the latest and greatest, but I'm prepared to take that risk over being 'persuaded' by soft-focus ads on TV or in print.
My suggestion is that a personal recovery ceiling be established for puntive damages. A single litigant could receive, say 20 million maximum.
Ummmm... why?
Frankly,I have absolutely no problem with a company being hit with enough punitive damages to drive it out of business. The point of "punitive" damages is to be "punitive."
If, as in the case of Merck, it's shown that defendant did nothing to change its behavior after being advised its actions were causing irreparable harm (i.e., death of its customers), then the sky's the fucking limit. Don't do the crime if etc...
Of course, if you want to argue its decision makers should also be brought up on criminal charges - like murder one - I'm open to that, too.
"Homosexuality is Sin, Christ Can Set you Free." The multitudes he displayed the sign for were gay, and included the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus singing the National Anthem.
But Batman and Robin are straight, dammit!
Gimlet, how are the monthly recruitment goals established? Have they been adjusted downwards recently, for example?
spend all my savings on expensive booze and cheap men
The line starts behind me guys...
But only the free market allows the research of new drugs. You see.
Because we all know that the world's health depends upon having three different stiffy-pills.
My suggestion is that a personal recovery ceiling be established for puntive damages. A single litigant could receive, say 20 million maximum.
I'm with dave.
This is arbitrary, based on nothing.
Do you think any of the folks making these decisions have the slightest regard for what takes place in Iraq any time after January 21, 2009 ?
Yes, insofar as they fully plan on still being in power (with whatever hand-picked successor to Commander Cuckoo Bananas they decide upon).
There is a problem with the medical malpractise system in the U.S., but abolishing it is not the answer, and that is what Bush is trying to do. For what else is there to keep the providers under some kind of control? Pretty much nothing. AMA is supposed to self-police but they hardly ever do, and the same goes for the other organizations. We need a system which punishes for medical malpractice and we also need a system which compensates the victims. Maybe the two should be separate.
There was an article in USAToday this week about the six colleges in Texas that are vying to be the Bush Presidential Library. The frontrunners are Baylor and SMU, both religious institutions. This, the article said, would tie in with W's post-presidential plans of "faith-based activities."
I bet the closest W will get to a "faith-based activity" is polishing off a bottle of Christian Brothers brandy.
Of course, if you want to argue its decision makers should also be brought up on criminal charges - like murder one - I'm open to that, too.
I'd like for some amusing punitive damages: for instance, Merck losing its patent protection on other drugs. Open the market to generics based on Zocor or Fosomax. If you can't be trusted to do your own R&D, let others do it.
BTW, whatever came of that "chemical factory" they found in Baghdad last week? I'm assuming it was nothing significant or else the trolls would be all over crowing about the "smoking gun of WMD we just found".
Gimlet, how are the monthly recruitment goals established? Have they been adjusted downwards recently, for example?
Yep. And they can't meet those goals either.
I'm with dave.
This is arbitrary, based on nothing.
rorschach
There have always been arbitrary limits to punitive damages. It is always a multiplier of actual damages, The sky has never been the limit. Appellate courts usually link it to the injury, which means, in practice, to actual damages shown at trial.
Um...the first paragraph states the very purpose of punitive damages.
Now, why the state, or municipality, has any interest in that money, is, frankly, beyond me. "Bona fide" complainants would have to be decided by a court of law. In a civil trial. (That's where we do these things). And if they get a punitive damage award, it should come from the same pocket.
My suggestion is merely to facilitate the result that I believe we're both advocating.
We agree on the purpose of punitive damages.
I'm not taking the position that entities other than the litigant will always receive monies in a civil proceeding. I really don't think I was that unclear on that point. It's just that in many of these cases, tobacco, pharmaceuticals, pollution, the states and municipalities have clearly substantial standing.
The process of establishing "bona fides" in a civil cause, especially class action suits, is not a case of first impression to US courts, nor is the concept of receiving controlled and audited benefit from an escrow or trust account. I'm puzzled by your wariness of this mechanism's efficacy.
And the ponying up will come from the same pocket!
Your "In a civil trial. (That's where we do these things). " I will write off as angry snark.
The crux of the problem I have with large punitive damages is exemplified with the Catholic Church scandal.
All these little old blue haired ladies that tithe 10% of their SS checks are essentially paying for these huge settlements.
I would much rather treat them as criminal conduct, including the Bishops and Cardinals that moved these priest around the country after they were aware of their criminal activity.
Yes, the victims deserve restitution, but should it be to the point of bringing the whole Catholic church to it's knees?
BTW, whatever came of that "chemical factory" they found in Baghdad last week?
In Mosul, you mean? Accelerants for explosives.
Why build any more Presidential Libraries? Didn't Chimpy forbid the release of any Presidential Documents?
I'm with dave.
This is arbitrary, based on nothing.
rorschach
All right!
Once and for all!
Fuck the 20 million!
I never said that 20 million would be the offending company's complete liability!
*ONE* person would receive 20 million! Or 50 million, adjusted periodically.
The COMMUNITY would receive the remainder of an UNLIMITED PUNISHMENT
JUDGEMENT!
BTW, any recover when one has lost a human or part of a human is arbitrary.
Your "In a civil trial. (That's where we do these things). " I will write off as angry snark.
Max Planck
Not snark at all. Class action suits have limited value. They were not used, for example, in the asbestos litigation (which I worked on, for the defense, back in the day). Most people get damages by proving their injuries in civil court. My point was to underline that we have a mechanism for establishing the "bona fides" or one's claim for compensation. What you advocate, seems to me to merely add multiple layers to the situation, and limit recovery, as the amount awarded often is less than would be awarded in individual trials.
That may improve judicial efficiency (i.e., fewer civil trials), but it does not, in practice, increase the amount awarded to any one individual. Indeed, it usually (again, in practice) decreases it.
When was the last time any member of a class action won a multi-million $$ award? Usually that amount is split among members of the class, and it ends up being a few $$ each.
If agreed by Monday's parliamentary deadline, it would appear to be a major concession to Islamist leaders from the Shi'ite Muslim majority and sit uneasily with U.S. insistence on the primacy of democracy and human rights in the new Iraq.
We don't need no stinkin' human rights for brown folks. Jeepers, how many times do you need to be reminded.
Good God!
Petroleum V. Nasby
My frustration conjured up a LONG unused alias.
That is fucking weird!
Appellate courts usually link it to the injury, which means, in practice, to actual damages shown at trial.
That's my point. Setting some arbitrary limit means that, in practice, one may not be able to link it to actual damages shown at trial.
just looking at merck's 2004 earnings statement and thought this would help put things in perspective. it's the 2005 projected net earnings from
WORLDWIDE
2005 NET SALES
ZOCOR (Cholesterol modifying) $4.2 to $4.5 billion
FOSAMAX (Osteoporosis) $3.3 to $3.6 billion
COZAAR/HYZAAR (Hypertension) $2.9 to $3.2 billion
SINGULAIR (Respiratory) $2.9 to $3.2 billion
Other reported products* $5.9 to $6.2 billion
All right!
Once and for all!
Fuck the 20 million!
You seem very upset about all this.
Here's my theory: Rummy's deliberating destroying the traditional military, replacing it with privatized mercenary armies recruited from former US special ops, soldiers of fortune and former right-wing paramilitaries from Africa and South America. Here in the Fatherland decimating the National Guard and Reserves makes it easier for "deputized" vigilantes like the Minute Men to do their thing.
Yes, I know I sound paranoid. But it's just that, even knowing something of Cheney, Rumsfeld et alias' careers, I can't fathom anyone being quite so incompetent as this team has been.
We don't need no stinkin' human rights for brown folks. Jeepers, how many times do you need to be reminded.
bigvic | Email | 08.20.05 - 2:05 pm | #
Chimpy will deem any Iraqi constitution a success, no matter how oppressive it is.
That's my point. Setting some arbitrary limit means that, in practice, one may not be able to link it to actual damages shown at trial.
rorschach
Which brings us back to "tort reform," as practiced in most state legislatures.
But how are we going to fight a five year war with an army that is broken after only two? Last I heard, the military didn't want to send people back for a third hitch, and most are finishing up their second.
Oh, where, oh where have our soldier boys gone? Oh where, Oh where can they be?
Said it before, I'll say it again: Iraq is Vietnam on speed.
bkny--that award is not hurting them, is it?
Dammit, Jim! It's hot in Gnashvegas!
.
bkny--that award is not hurting them, is it?
Due to the precedent it set, Merk's stock (as a company) lost about five billion in value yesterday.
The sky has never been the limit.
Smacked down by RMJ???
I'm crushed!!! 
Just better stand back when I take over...!
When was the last time any member of a class action won a multi-million $$ award? Usually that amount is split among members of the class, and it ends up being a few $$ each.
Exactly. For many, especially in stock purchase fraud related class actions, it's more trouble than it is worth.
I want to monetarily inconvenience these bastards! I'm only looking for a way for juries to hit them hard without reservation that all the money will go to one recipient.
Said it before, I'll say it again: Iraq is Vietnam on speed.
Anybody know if even Regular Army (i.e. non-draftees) had to do more than one tour of duty in Vietnam? I know some did -- IIRC Schwartzkopf did -- but I thought they volunteered for 2nd and 3rd tours.
BTW, good one from Ailes on Tierney's latest atrocity.
Racism, sexism, plagarism - this one's got it all, effendi!
Re: Tort Reform
I do not understand why it is permissible to deliver excessive punishments upon individual citizens in the name of making a point or teaching a lesson; but when the punishment--no matter how deserved, or how egregious the crime--falls upon corporations, this is taken as excessive zeal by juries???
jeezis...
.
You seem very upset about all this.
rorschach
I'm recovering.
For a minute, I thought I was being boxed in as a corporatist.
I'm most assuredly not in that class.
the 250,000 iraqi national army which were building.
"Further, I was a trainer of soldiers at one time. (For two years after I returned from Vietnam, in fact.) And I state without fear of contradiction by any professional that the Iraqi army will not be in any shape to operate effectively for many, many years, given the present training program, such as it is.
There was no pre-war planning for establishment of a new Iraqi army, and Rumsfeld has been fooled by pathetic yes-men generals to believe that an Iraqi army can be trained from scratch to be a useful force in a couple of years. This is nonsense. (Just as it is nonsense to say that the Afghan National Army is anywhere near being effective.) Let me tell you what it takes to train a soldier who comes off the streets and into barracks:
We have to presuppose clean barrack-room accommodation, including decent beds, lavatories, mess halls and showers; arrangements for pay that result in families receiving cash on time; and a welfare system that caters for both recruits and their families. There must be padres for all religious denominations. (Please stop laughing.)"
Much, much more, from someone who appears to know something about the subject.
I want to monetarily inconvenience these bastards! I'm only looking for a way for juries to hit them hard without reservation that all the money will go to one recipient.
Here's the thing--and it used to happen fairly regularly...
Corporations can be dissolved by the state. If deemed grossly harmful to the well-being of the community, the charter for the corporation can simply be revoked.
We need to get back to our roots and start doing that again.
I know, I'm a dreamer.
(I hope I've redeemed myself in your eyes, Max, from my earlier remark.)
Sigh.
Haloscan just ate a long (and brilliant!) post.
Punitives are one of the few tools we have to get a large corporation to settle a case brought by a private citizen.
The citizen's hurt, out of work, with doctor bills piling up. The corporation's not. Why would the corporation settle with the citizen for anything more than a paltry amount -- at least any time prior to the morning of a trial that the corporation has done everything possible to delay for months and years?
Because they want to avoid punitives and get out now before their dilatory behavior pisses off a jury even more.
Otherwise, the corporation can offer the citizen almost nothing and the citizen will, like as not, take it because he's/she's out of work and desperate.
Re: Ru-upping for Nam
draftees, ofcourse, with only a two-year active requirement, would seldom have had time to serve more than one hitch in-country, since the deployment time was one year...
i'm sure career types--lifer officers and ncos--would have been sent back, whether they wanted to go or not...they wouldn't have had to volunteer for it, depending on their training...
.
Vote "I support what Cindy Sheehan is doing in Texas"
at:
http://www.thereporter.com/
(I hope I've redeemed myself in your eyes, Max, from my earlier remark.)
rorschach
You had me at hello.
that award is not hurting them, is it?
Rmj, Wandering Aengus
yea, and isn't it interesting that in all of the tv coverage i saw of the judgement, this was never pointed out.
just another point that always aggravates the hell out of me -- the vast majority of (or at least a huge chunk) of any award goes to the attorneys. in that statement merck also states the amount they've set aside for defense purposes:
"Merck Reserves an Additional $604 Million in the Fourth Quarter Solely for Future Legal Defense Costs for VIOXX, Bringing Total Reserve to $675 Million "
http://www.merck.com/newsroom/pr.../
2005_0125.html
Too many threads soil the spoup.
Yes, the victims deserve restitution, but should it be to the point of bringing the whole Catholic church to it's knees?
Why, yes, yes it should. I understand that they advocate kneeling and poverty and humility anyway. About time for them to start practicing it and quit parading around in red shoes.
Jeffraham, what is the tricorder reading?
Yes, the victims deserve restitution, but should it be to the point of bringing the whole Catholic church to it's knees?
Why, yes, yes it should.
I second the opinion of Hecate, who is Wiccan and yet does not worship Satan.
Rumsfeld has been fooled by pathetic yes-men generals to believe that an Iraqi army can be trained from scratch to be a useful force in a couple of years.
Like Hackett said last night, it's hard to fault the generals when every one that comments on the need for more troops gets the can.
Rummy created his own echo chamber, he hasn't been fooled by anyone.
Virginia-
The neocon argument for training the troops goes along the lines of, "Well look how quickly George Washington put together a continental army." Of course this argument, even if possessing a scintilla of truth, speaks more to the mustering of the insurgents.
nick carraway: Jeffraham, what is the tricorder reading?
94F in the shade; 44% humdidity. Heat index = 100F.
H.O.T.
.
Tierney's column is filled with "evolutionary psychology" mumbo-jumbo purporting to show that golf is a manifestation of mens' hunting instinct.
Whenever I play golf, I spend a lot of time hunting for my balls. Is that what he means?
Corporations can be dissolved by the state. If deemed grossly harmful to the well-being of the community, the charter for the corporation can simply be revoked
just out of curiousity:
can anyone remember the last time a big corporation had its charter revoked for ANY criminal behavior and was permitted/forced to dissolve?
i cannot...
.
OT, but got a kick out of this from that batshit craze RedState.org site:
...the last couple of days, amidst the backdrop of the pathetic spectacle of a grieving mother (and lunatic moonbat, who just happens to be surrounded by dozens of the Usual Suspects who must think it’s still 1969) requesting – nay, demanding – an second audience with the President of the United States over the death of her 24-year old “child”, I have found that my desire to continue to defend Mr. Bush has declined notably. It has not been a conscious decision on my part to “stand-down” some of my support – and, in fact, my support for the war has only grown since I wrote a rather pessimistic-sounding diary entry some time ago. So why the loss of “fire” to defend the CinC?
Finally, it dawned on me this morning – why am I defending the President when he does not seem interested in doing it himself?
Awwwwwww... poow widdle bwonshiwts!
Other amusing items from BatshitcrazyState.org: they track down the TRUTH - TRUTH, goddammit - about that "anti-semitic" email Cindy Sheehan never sent, but someone on the internets told us she did, really, so THERE!, and the shocking truth the liberals don't want you to know: Bill Clinton was responsible for 9/11!!!
Look it up yourself, I'm just not gonna bother...
i'm sure career types--lifer officers and ncos--would have been sent back, whether they wanted to go or not...they wouldn't have had to volunteer for it, depending on their training...
WGG
I'm sure you're probably right, but I was just curious since I've never seen it spelled out anywhere. I have, however, heard it mentioned that someone did 2 or 3 tours in Nam as though it were a mark of special commitment to the Vietnam War -- not just a way of saying I served in the Army long enough to have been rotated in and out several times. I've also heard it said that someone "volunteered" for a second or third tour in Nam. I'm just curious about the exact policy.
When I play golf I take a viagra, then lie down on the green and put my putter in the hole.
Whenever I play golf, I spend a lot of time hunting for my balls. Is that what he means?
Lime Rickey -- 2:29 pm
whenever Liddy Dole plays 'gulp,' she spends a lotta time looking for Bob's balls...
just sayin'
.
spinoza
Also, he wasted almost no resources on petroleum products, and his troops did their jobs with absolutely no kevlar! It's a good analogy.
JP: mid eighties & sticky here, but w/ a nice breeze (if youre in the right place)... & since I was just doing a driveby, not up to speed on tort reform, & unwilling to risk the Wrath of Hesiod--- later, 'bats
And it just occurred to me: He was TANG, but W did get to check the box that said he was not willing to serve outside the country.
Okay, since no one liked my Catholic Church example...
What about a small school district?
IIRC their was a very small school district in south TX, hired bad teacher, things went very wrong where a student was injured or killed.
Parents sue, win more in damages than the whole school district is worth.
School district is faced with bankruptcy and tripling school taxes on the citizens of the county.
I know if I lived their I would not be happy about having my school taxes tripled due to the actions of one bad apple.
Not advocating any one solution, just pointing out what I see as a problem.
Anyway, off to lunch...
can anyone remember the last time a big corporation had its charter revoked for ANY criminal behavior and was permitted/forced to dissolve?
Nah, nowadays, they just declare bankruptcy and emerge to do it all over again (Enron, anyone?). Funny the Vichy Dems weren't interested in making it more difficult for corporations to declare bankruptcy, only private folks.
Why, yes, yes it should. I understand that they advocate kneeling and poverty and humility anyway. About time for them to start practicing it and quit parading around in red shoes.
Hecate - 2:24 pm
i witchew, keed,
if i may say so...
It's getting pretty crowded here. I think me and the gerbil will just watch for a while. BTW, Liddy is such a contortionist she can use her auxiliary nipple as a tee. Watch this drive!
I'm just curious about the exact policy.
Toonscribe
My brother was an AF pilot; he served one tour by assignment and then volunteered for another. I'm not sure, but I don't think infantry, at least, were sent for more than one tour. I'd ask him, but we're not on speaking terms at the moment. Told him I'd call him during the impeachment hearings, so it'll probably be a couple of years, at least.
There is a big problem with the "as Iraqis step up we will step down" plan. What is growing faster? The insurgency or the pro-US army?
Last I heard we had about 3,000 who could show up for a fight. Last I heard the insurgancy had between 20,000 and 25,000. What are the trend lines looking like?
bebe rebozo: BTW, Liddy is such a contortionist she can use her auxiliary nipple as a tee. Watch this drive!
Ravenous concavenous.
.
golf is a manifestation of mens' hunting instinct.
Bwhahah. Because (1) no women ever play golf and (2) golfing is much more like hunting and gathering than it is like hunting an animal.
But, hey, everything's explainable by the notion that men used to hunt animals and women used to gather nuts and berries, right? Right?
More high-larity from BatshitcrazyState.org:
Liberals! They are whiny and, as November 2004 demostrated, losers.
Pow! Take that, Michael Moore!
Also, they're really in a tizzy over this.
When this site started, the Kos group was actually giving them props. I know they've cooled to them since, but why, in God's name, did they ever think it would be anything but the brownshirt cesspool it is?
More on the Na Gah Hapn Iraqi Troop Preparedness Plan:
"In a recruit training battalion of a thousand or so young men (in Iraq it will be only men) there must be a headquarters staffed by skilled administrators and experts in imparting military skills. Then the requirement for each company of 200 (or so) is for a dedicated staff of six officers, a sergeant major and 4 company office staff, a quartermaster sergeant (and staff), five sergeant instructors, and about 12 corporal instructors. All of these soldiers must have been specially selected for their expertise in administration and instruction. (Not every skilled and brave soldier is by definition either an administrator or an instructor : some of the most courageous soldiers I have ever known have found it impossible to convey their knowledge to others or even understand how they are administered. This tends to frustrate personnel selectors. Mind you : How many personnel selectors has the Iraqi army got?)
All these instructors work their asses off for 12 weeks, for at least 12 hours a day, to produce a basic soldier. And let me emphasize that what they produce is the absolute BASIC soldier -- no more. The product is not a fighting man. He is incapable of employing his individual skills immediately in a team -- a fighting platoon - because there is much more to learn before joining his battalion.
The soldier (we are talking infantry, here ; forget the much longer training for technical arms and the administrative services) then has to go off to specialist training to fit him for his unit. This takes another two months or so. Then his theoretical knowledge is put into practice in the battalion, in which he is a member of a platoon. --- But he will only function reasonably if he joins a trained platoon of skilled soldiers who are themselves a team and who trust their commander and non-commissioned leaders."
why, in God's name, did they ever think it would be anything but the brownshirt cesspool it is?
Kapersky (or whatever his name is) is actually an active poster on DKos, and mucks in with it all. Trained by Morton Blackwell's Brownshirt Institute, but fairly savvy.
But, you launch a community site with the 'community' you have.
I have, however, heard it mentioned that someone did 2 or 3 tours in Nam as though it were a mark of special commitment to the Vietnam War -- not just a way of saying I served in the Army long enough to have been rotated in and out several times.
iirc (this was USAF), if you did one tour in-country, they'd give you a two-year billet elsewhere (three, sometimes, but with reservations), with the understanding you'd probably be going back if the shit was still flying...
so, say, you re-upped for e-5, after one year in-country, and got, say europe, or Japan, or even stateside (you could also have gotten remote Turkey, or an aleutian island or Fairbanks), in two years, about half way through your second enlistment, you'd be likely to be sent back, if you were like a jet or chopper mechanic, armorer, loadmaster, fac, or any of the critical job dewscriptions...so, one year in, two years (if you were lucky) out, then another in, then another (if you were lucky) two years out...
of course, absolutely NONE of this was in any sense 'guaranteed'. the "Needs of the Service" were pre-eminent...
they offered me e-5 to re-up....
then we all had a little laugh...
.
Hecate @ 2:21: YES
Hecate @ 2:24: Word.
Hecate: I know that polluters consistently budget for their fines, because it's more economical than cleaning their shit up.
The same principle applies to Merck here. They pissed in the well, and they ought to drink from it.
Remove their patents. Open their big bucks drugs to generic manufacturers.
Won't someone go an' fawn over Soprano's lovely kitties in the comments?
.
Whenever I play golf, I spend a lot of time hunting for my balls. Is that what he means?
Lime Rickey
Why do I even try to sip tea when reading the comments.
Jeffraham Prestonian
The black kitty made the grey kitty spaz! Is he jealous because the black kitty is getting all the action?
Why do I even try to sip tea when reading the comments.
Antioxidants?
And you hate your computer?
Thanks for the info on multiple tours of Nam, Virginia and WGG.
Virginia: The black kitty made the grey kitty spaz! Is he jealous because the black kitty is getting all the action?
No; Tom Thumb spazzed because he realized he was on-camera. This'll make more sense when I post the next clip.
.
OT: I read for a part today
in a bunch of training videos, for mental health/substance abouse providers...both as the doc and the patient...dunno if i'll get the gig; but i nailed the readings...foookin nailed 'em...
.
foookin nailed 'em...
Good luck.
clean sheets
Finally, it dawned on me this morning – why am I defending the President when he does not seem interested in doing it himself?
Was that before or after you blew your goat bed partner?
WGG--Hope ya broke a leg!
They don't need a draft. There are plenty of unfortunate Mexicans who are getting arrested and given the choice of jail or Irag I suspect. Also our tax money is very generously going to all kinds of very expensive mercenaries over whom we have no control or law or authority of any kind. They have created a horror of chaos. Who is it I wonder who is mutilating all those dead Iraqis (1100 in July)? They can't even identify them they are so mutilated and there are so many of them they are stacked ceiling high in the mortuaries.
The thing that really agravates me is the corporate lawyers who have done much to screw up our laws and government and the huge salaries, etc. they take.
And the people who go around griping about the trial lawyers who are really the only thing standing between us and total oblivion for the people.
Rmj, Wandering Aengus:
When was the last time any member of a class action won a multi-million $$ award? Usually that amount is split among members of the class, and it ends up being a few $$ each.
**************
Do you mean after the lawyers get their share? Aren't the lawyers paid first?
In my lawsuit, the lawyer took his share out first, then gave me the balance. He said "That's how it works".
The US hopes to put bases in Lebanon as it nurses it's grudge against Lebanese Hizbollah. State and DoD doing their best to intimidate the Siniora government.
There are plenty of unfortunate Mexicans who are getting arrested and given the choice of jail or Irag I suspect
La docena sucia?
"There are plenty of unfortunate Mexicans who are getting arrested and given the choice of jail or Irag I suspect".
It must be the legal ones then, because I damn sure don't see any illegal ones being arrested.
Talk about Operation Yellow Elephant -
There is nothing more funny than
"PAUL HACKETT HUNTING FOR RINOS AND YELLOW-BELLY ELEPHANTS"
Thus, the Coming Draft Debate.
Last BITCHES!
Yes, the victims deserve restitution, but should it be to the point of bringing the whole Catholic church to it's knees?
When they act like some in vestments version of the Corelone family, yes, you do.
There are individuals who have engaged in a criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice. They need to be dealt with.
How is it, exactly, that we're supposed to prevail over a five year timeline if the Reserve and Guard components of the Army "melt-down" over the next 36 months?
You know, it would be a lot easier if the Democrats summarized "news" like this (and other news like it) down to "The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!!" At least, it would save you a lot of typing.
Just a driveby on a semi-dead thread to see if the new gravatar has been successfully unpacked & installed....
Hey, I didn't know it would work in Preview!
**shamelessly pats self on back for Photoshop work which one hopes will avoid plagiarism charges from the nice folks at allposters.com***
Yes, the victims deserve restitution, but should it be to the point of bringing the whole Catholic church to it's knees?
If that's what it takes to make them stop aiding and abetting the rape of children?
Yes. Absolutely.
You know, it would be a lot easier if the Democrats summarized "news" like this (and other news like it) down to "The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!!" At least, it would save you a lot of typing.
What makes that comment funny is that the opponents of this war have been right about every single aspect of it from the start, while the war's apologists (like yourself) have been consistently and shamefully wrong at every turn.
Your hatred for reality is having a severe detrimental effect on your capacity to learn and absorb new information.
Yes, the victims deserve restitution, but should it be to the point of bringing the whole Catholic church to it's knees?
Er, yep!
You know, it would be a lot easier if the Democrats summarized "news"
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzz!
I wonder who is mutilating all those dead Iraqis (1100 in July)? They can't even identify them they are so mutilated and there are so many of them they are stacked ceiling high in the mortuaries.
Luke
Luke, Luke...what's wrong with you, man!
Don't you know that it's anti-American to consider the Iraqis human beings?
Their lives don't count!
Why, yes, yes it should. I understand that they advocate kneeling and poverty and humility anyway. About time for them to start practicing it and quit parading around in red shoes.
Hecate
Their attitude towards women is enough for me to want them to go down in flames!
All these instructors work their asses off for 12 weeks, for at least 12 hours a day, to produce a basic soldier. And let me emphasize that what they produce is the absolute BASIC soldier -- no more.
the iraqis are getting on the job training fighting along side the americans.
====================
The friendly forces in Iraq are also an amalgamation. In Iraq as a whole, the Coalition is comprised of soldiers from many countries. But here in Mosul, the "Coalition" is almost entirely US, charged with building the Iraqi Security Forces (ISF), while simultaneously keeping the insurgents at bay until the ISF can take over. Building the ISF is part of a larger plan that will allow our people to come home, without leaving a wounded Iraq victim to septic fundamentalism from within, or invasion from opportunistic neighbors.
Some definitions: The ISF includes the Iraqi Police (IP), Iraqi Army (IA), Iraqi National Guard (ING), Border Patrol (BP), and sundry other groups, each with their own initials. Every month, the ISF becomes a greater and more proximate threat to FRE and extremists groups throughout Iraq. This is borne out in a most ironic fashion; evidence of the growing competence and capability of ISF shouts from the headlines as the Iraqi government itself becomes the primary focus of insurgent attacks.
Gone are the days when the FREs and extremists in Mosul chased police from their stations and ravaged entire neighborhoods at will. Today, the ISF kills and captures enemy every day in Mosul, something that seldom makes news.
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/
cs,
Enron.
Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity.
Atrios supports the troops!
Anybody have any ideas what GWB
will do as an ex-president?
Hopefully a War Crimes Tribunal will decide that.
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