HULK SMASHED
Good morning liberals!
Undermined the troops lately?
Undermining the troops is so 1969! Why the right is trying to emulate the mistakes of the left from that era is mindboggling. A few malcontents on the left went around spitting on soldies in the 1960s, while the leaders turned a blind eye. The difference now is that in 2005 the leadering right wing pundits are spitting on the mother of a dead soldier.
Why Pat Jehlen is the Best Choice on August 30th
Let me be the first to say, FUCK BUSH!
Greetings from Soviet Canuckistan! It's so late it's early here, but I'm still awake. Why? Well, that's for me to know and for you not to figure out. 
The "leading" right wing pundits are spitting on the mother of a dead war hero, not just the "leadering" ones.
(must remeber to proof)
Why Pat Jehlen is the Best Choice on August 30th
Good morning liberals!
Undermined the troops lately?
Sloth | 08.27.05 - 3:47 am | #
***************
sloth, how lame do you imagine that the troops are? do you actually believe that there is anything i could do to "undermine" them, even if i wanted to? any problems they are having are due to poor planning and poor leadership.
How-joo-say Oracle Agnostico...
that storrr about the trrroops being spat upon, eet ees a myth, a lie.
so.
preemptive blow me.
that is all.
744 on the last thread? wow.
munchers must be out in full force.
sloth:
You can kiss my veteran ass, fascist asswipe.
What could you all be doing up AT THIS 'ungodly' hour ?
jimmy? why? wtf r u up to now?
Oh, and what El Gato Negro said.
With salsa.
Jim Hightower spoke at Jo's coffee in Austin tonight. He rocks.
What could you all be doing up AT THIS 'ungodly' hour ?
Jim Florio
I'm up reading articles while a hot British guy is cooking on the Food Network in the background.
Good morning liberals!
Undermined the troops lately?
Sloth
So most Americans are liberals? Thanks for clarifying that.
Greetings from Soviet Canuckistan! It's so late it's early here, but I'm still awake. Why? Well, that's for me to know and for you not to figure out.
Interrobang, Irate Observer
You little scamp.
incog...
undermine=troop support?
explain.
Listening to NPR tonight I heard that Cheney was against the invasion before he was for it. The Republicans have a term for that...
flip-flopper!
Thanks for bringing it to the public's attention nearly 1 year after the election, NPR.
Backwoods Johnny
Backwoods Johnny was a wrestlin' fool.
He wrestled alligators on his way toschool.
He'd stroke their bellies and throw'em in a sack,
and run off to school with a gator on his back.
Teacher seen him coming, jump on a chair.
She yelled at Johnny, "Get your gator outta here!"
Johnny replied as he took his seat,
"You better mind your manners 'cause mygator wants some meat!
Thanks for bringing it to the public's attention nearly 1 year after the election, NPR.
George Johnston
You see how sorry they are? Now after all the blood and guts, they're going to clear their own culpability like it's all right.
Sorry sick fuckers.
troll Boy
troll Boy Fat Boy where've you been,
Downtown pizza hut eating again.
Had a pepperoni, sausage and extra cheese,
got a big old' belly hanging to your knees.
Force Recon
Paint my face black and green
You won't see me I'm a Recon Marine.
I slip and slither into the night
You won't see me till I'm ready to fight.
You'll run in the bushes you'll try to hide
But that's where I live- you're sure to die.
You won't see me till it's too late
A flash of my bang will be your fate.
Oh, I'm also up because I'm a night worker and slept all day. Was almost late for work over-sleeping skidding in there with only 2 minutes to spare at 8pm.
Since Sloth is currently staring blanking at his screen, I figured I would give him something to read from this morning's local newspaper:
GUEST COLUMN: "All people deserve to be treated with dignity"
August 27, 2005
What are we afraid of?
That is the question that I want to ask all the people who are having a hard time with the whole idea of gay marriage. I will be honest with you, I don't understand homosexuality, but maybe I am not supposed to. Maybe they don't understand some heterosexuals, and I can understand that. But before a person is a homosexual or a heterosexual, he or she is first a human being.
All people deserve to be treated with dignity, even those whose lifestyle some of us may not understand or agree with. I don't believe people who are homosexual have any choice in the way they are. I also do not believe they are any different from those of us who are heterosexual, except for the fact that they are attracted to the same sex.
That is a big difference, but in my mind that is the only difference, and these people should not be castigated for being themselves.
The real problem for homosexuals is they want to use the word marriage to describe their unions. That scares people, and in this overwhelmingly Christian country it is an anathema. People are put off by it, and they believe it to be perverted and unnatural. But what these same people who go to church on Sunday fail to realize is that these people are our brothers and our sisters, they are our fathers and our mothers and they are our friends.
Many families have been touched by homosexuality. I have known many people who happen to be homosexual, but they were no different from the heterosexuals I knew. They wanted the same things I wanted. They wanted to work, they wanted to worship, they wanted to enjoy their lives, and they wanted to love and be loved. The ones I knew were some of the best people in the world, and I could not be party to anything that is going to deny them the same freedoms I enjoy.
I enjoy those freedoms because of the blood that was shed for me in the racial struggle by my forefathers, who at one time were not able to marry a white person because it was against the law for blacks and whites to marry. That was 40 years ago, and today those sentiments are in the trash heap of discrimination, where they belong. My point is people thought they were doing the right thing then also, but it was wrong then, and it is wrong now. People are people, regardless of their sexual orientation.
President Bush, being the Christian he says he is, now wants to put an amendment in the Constitution that takes rights away from his fellow Americans. He wants to codify intolerance and bigotry in the Constitution. Outside of the Bible for most Americans, the Constitution of the United States is the most important document in the world. It is the living, breathing apparatus that allows us to thrive in freedom and equality. Those are the values the Constitution states unequivocally. The Declaration of Independence states "we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights -- those being life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." It is a wonderful thing, and we should rejoice in it.
Homosexuals are human beings who only want to be treated like every other human being. I don't know whether they will be able to legally get married, but I do know people who spend their lives together in loving relationships should have the rights to be involved in every aspect of their partners life. Maybe it won't be marriage, but something very close to it -- something that will allow all of us to move on to the real things that matter in our lives: education of our children, providing good care for our elderly parents, providing health care for all of our citizens, and being good to the world that feeds us and sustains us. In other words, taking care of our environment.
Homosexual marriage has become a divisive issue in this country, and it is a shame. People are fearful of the unknown. But for the most part, most people are fair and tolerant. Tolerance for those things that are different is part of the American fabric. We are a big country, and we can accommodate all people.
Prentiss Smith lives in Shreveport.
After the third hour of constant "Girls Gone Wild" infomerchials,it starts to get a little old.A LITTLE old.
I never thought I'd say this but
where is the damn remote?
From Our Soldiers Are Victims:
"...The Pro-Bush caravans will be arriving on Saturday, bringing some extremely courageous Americans into town who are eager to defend their President from the plaintive cries of a grieving mother. They know that national media attention will be focused on their dispute with Cindy and they are going to try to put their own spin on what is happening. Opponents of the war need to realize the great opportunity this confrontation is going to provide them to answer that spin.
Bush’s defenders will refer to the comments Cindy has made that accuse him of being responsible for the needless deaths of thousands of American soldiers. She has said that they died for nothing. The pro-Bush demonstrators will say loudly and repeatedly that this kind of talk actually dishonors the soldiers that Cindy is trying to save. Our challenge is to point out the logical errors of this argument.
Soldiers who have been victimized by inept leadership, who have been sent into harm’s way because of the “faulty reasoning” and/or reckless actions of their Commander-in-Chief, are not stripped of their honor when that embarrassing truth is finally revealed. They are simply victims who deserve our sympathy as well as our respect and gratitude for their willingness to take risks for the sake of others.
A soldier’s honor is never dependent on the sanity or the rationality of his or her commanders. Soldiers never deserve blame for the wars they fight or for the failure of their efforts to achieve the fairy tale war aims of an incompetent leader. They are completely dependent on their leaders for wise direction. Given their willingness to put themselves in harm’s way on command, they have a right to competent leadership, leadership that will not put their lives at risk unnecessarily. America’s soldiers have been deprived of that basic right by George W. Bush.
During World War II, German soldiers regularly served with honor in spite of the fact that their nation and their personal lives were ruined by a Leader who spoke to them often about Noble Causes. One of those soldiers would even become Pope one day. Hitler may have been criminally misguided, but he was just as adept as George Bush is at defining his foolish and ultimately futile military adventures as a supremely Noble Cause.
Soldiers do not need to win wars in order to serve with honor. Robert E. Lee earned great honor as a soldier—-and the respect of those whom he fought against—-not because his ‘country’ (Virginia) was fighting for a truly noble and rational cause, but because of his performance as a soldier on the battlefield. Lee ultimately fought all of his battles in vain, but that fact did not strip him of the honor he deserved.
Cindy is no enemy of those who serve their nation with noble intentions; she is in fact their friend. When Cindy asks the President what the Noble Cause was that her son died for, she is not dishonoring any soldier; she is simply trying to help save them from continued victimization by their inept Commander-in-Chief. Our soldiers cannot help the fact that they have been misused and misled by their President, a man who has done more to ruin America’s reputation in the world in recent years than any other.
If our soldiers come to realize that they have been sent into battle by an incompetent fool, then they will lose no honor upon discovering that truth. Instead of losing honor, they gain the sympathy of the American people. That means that they will gain in stature when all of the truth comes out. They are our heroes, but they are also victims who need our help and support. They need our help to protect them from George Bush.
In speaking the truth, we are helping to restore some of the honor that George Bush took from them when he ruined America’s reptutation around the world with his unwise, politically-motivated war..."
Morning Moonbats.
Was there a news dump last night. So far I see no sign of one.
Good morning liberals!
Undermined the troops lately?
Sloth
If by "undermine" you mean staked out 138,000 of them in the desert as live bait with inadequate body armor and inadequately armored vehicles for the purpose of creating yet another Islamic Republic or for the purpose of letting them die there so we won't have to die here (or in London), -- uh, no.
How about you?
Morning!
(this is riduculous - 5 am on a Sat - but I can't sleep)
Looking for news dump now...
Nope, no news dump I can see. Thune's ass is out of trouble, and a hurricane is heading my way...
Silly me, they've changed the news dump to 9:00 p.m., Saturday.
I'm glad Cindy is moving to D.C.
Hah hah. I am up AT WORK but this is my "Friday". I'm out of here in 2 and a half hours. Yeh haw!
If there was any spitting, etc. at returning Viet Nam troops I missed it all and I was attending the University of California in the middle to late 60's for graduate classes??????? That propaganda always puzzled me greatly.
"I'm glad Cindy is moving to D.C."
She has a lot of guts that lady!! Blessed be her little broken heart.
Good morning liberals!
Undermined the troops lately?
Sloth | 08.27.05 - 3:47 am
Good morning, fucko!
I undermined a troop of boy scouts by not purchasing the fund-raising candy bars that they were hawking door-to-door.
Does that count?
"I undermined a troop of boy scouts by not purchasing the fund-raising candy bars that they were hawking door to door."
Good for you. In the first place how terrible it is that they send the kids out to make money for the corporations. In the second place I was always so horrified that people couldn't understand how terrible it would be for a young boy to be refused membership in this supposedly good boys' organization for any reason let alone for his sexual orientation (for chrissakes). Discrimination is the world's first order of evil and we about to see a huge cauldron of it boiled up.
You don't "support the troops" when you support the LIES that KILL THEM!
"Howard Stern in trouble again with porn actresses"?
I thought by now he is on satellite radio. But not yet.
Cindy got skilz.She's a gangsta.
And I dont care what the movies portray,a gangsta can whoop a cowboys ass with ease.OOps,I mean with eazeese!
whoa, check this out. any xfiles fans:
Farmer May Have Caught Legendary 'Chupacabra'
Mysterious Animal Kills Chickens, Turkeys
POSTED: 9:31 am CDT August 25, 2005
UPDATED: 9:47 am CDT August 25, 2005
COLEMAN, Texas -- A Texas farmer may have found what some would call a "chupacabra," a legendary animal known for sucking the blood out of goats.
http://www.click2houston.com/new...017/
detail.html
Good morning Early Bats.
I am up AT WORK but this is my "Friday". I'm out of here in 2 and a half hours.
I'm at work too but my day's just beginning 
So help me out here..."The early bat gets the ?..."
And, of course, it is the singling out of one group for discrimination that is the sure bet that the repukes will not be happy until they have turned our republic into a fascist state. If people do not wake up to the fact that if the repukes can get away with singling out one group, it is only a matter of time before they will single out another.
So far they have been successful with singling out gays. Where I think they are making their mistake is going after liberals next. They have framed the issue into one of pro-war good, anti-war, eeeek, you're a liberal. How many fine, moderate Republicans are out there scratching their heads, wondering when they became liberals. Just because they understand this war was totally unnecessary and are opposed to it, they have now become persona non grata in their own party. Intelligent design, bah. Keep it up repukes, you are losing by your own actions. Very little help from dems is required.
Hey Lab Coat Larry, are you zipped or unzipped around those boy scouts?
I thought they had a restraining order against?
Hey Lab Coat Larry, are you zipped or unzipped around those boy scouts?
I thought they had a restraining order against?
bdg | Email | 08.27.05 - 7:14 am
You must have me confused with their good-Christian molestin' Scoutmasters.
Hey Lab Coat Larry, are you zipped or unzipped around those boy scouts?
I thought they had a restraining order against?
bdg | Email | 08.27.05 - 7:14 am
You must have me confused with their good-christian, molestin' scoutmaster.
Morning, all. A voice of reason in the whole fake-kid-whose-fake-dad-died-in-Iraq-and-student-
newspaper-published-all-the-fake-details story:
Kim Treger, owner of a women's shoe and accessories store, said she followed the story from the start but was not surprised to learn it was fake.
"As long as people dig those sentimental stories and have that yellow-ribbon mentality, there are going to be these hoaxes," she said.
You must have me confused with their good-christian, molestin' scoutmaster.
Lab Coat Larry
You mean this guy?
Boy Scout leader arrested on molestation accusations
LOS ALTOS, Calif. - A Boy Scout leader was arrested Thursday on accusations that he molested a scout over a five-year period beginning in the 1980s.
Gregory Allen Wagner, 42, was arrested Thursday morning in his Los Altos home by the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office. He is being held in jail for continuous molestation of a child, lewd acts on a child under 14 and distributing pornography to a child.
The victim told authorities that the molestations began in 1987 when he was a 12-year-old Boy Scout and continued until 1992, Deputy Terrance Helm said. The unidentified victim told authorities that Wagner molested other children as well.
"We will investigate until we find every victim," Helms said.
Wagner's family declined to comment Thursday to the San Jose Mercury News.
Wagner had been associated with Troop 31 since 1986.
Found this upstream:
A few malcontents on the left went around spitting on soldies in the 1960s...
Actually, though, that never happened at all. Here's Jerry Lembcke :
STORIES ABOUT spat-upon Vietnam veterans are like mercury: Smash one and six more appear. It's hard to say where they come from. For a book I wrote in 1998 I looked back to the time when the spit was supposedly flying, the late 1960s and early 1970s. I found nothing. No news reports or even claims that someone was being spat on.
What I did find is that around 1980, scores of Vietnam-generation men were saying they were greeted by spitters when they came home from Vietnam. There is an element of urban legend in the stories in that their point of origin in time and place is obscure, and, yet, they have very similar details. The story told by the man who spat on Jane Fonda at a book signing in Kansas City recently is typical. Michael Smith said he came back through Los Angeles airport where ''people were lined up to spit on us."
Like many stories of the spat-upon veteran genre, Smith's lacks credulity. GIs landed at military airbases, not civilian airports, and protesters could not have gotten onto the bases and anywhere near deplaning troops. There may have been exceptions, of course, but in those cases how would protesters have known in advance that a plane was being diverted to a civilian site? And even then, returnees would have been immediately bused to nearby military installations and processed for reassignment or discharge.
The exaggerations in Smith's story are characteristic of those told by others. ''Most Vietnam veterans were spat on when we came back," he said. That's not true. A 1971 Harris poll conducted for the Veterans Administration found over 90 percent of Vietnam veterans reporting a friendly homecoming. Far from spitting on veterans, the antiwar movement welcomed them into its ranks and thousands of veterans joined the opposition to the war.
The persistence of spat-upon Vietnam veteran stories suggests that they continue to fill a need in American culture. The image of spat-upon veterans is the icon through which many people remember the loss of the war, the centerpiece of a betrayal narrative that understands the war to have been lost because of treason on the home front. Jane Fonda's noisiest detractors insist she should have been prosecuted for giving aid and comfort to the enemy, in conformity with the law of the land.
But the psychological dimensions of the betrayal mentality are far more interesting than the legal. Betrayal is about fear, and the specter of self-betrayal is the hardest to dispel. The likelihood that the real danger to America lurks not outside but inside the gates is unsettling. The possibility that it was failure of masculinity itself, the meltdown of the core component of warrior culture, that cost the nation its victory in Vietnam has haunted us ever since.
Many tellers of the spitting tales identify the culprits as girls, a curious quality to the stories that gives away their gendered subtext. Moreover, the spitting images that emerged a decade after the troops had come home from Vietnam are similar enough to the legends of defeated German soldiers defiled by women upon their return from World War I, and the rejection from women felt by French soldiers when they returned from their lost war in Indochina, to suggest something universal and troubling at work in their making. One can reject the presence of a collective subconscious in the projection of those anxieties, as many scholars would, but there is little comfort in the prospect that memories of group spit-ins, like Smith has, are just fantasies conjured in the imaginations of aging veterans.
Remembering the war in Vietnam through the images of betrayal is dangerous because it rekindles the hope that wars like it, in countries where we are not welcomed, can be won. It disparages the reputation of those who opposed that war and intimidates a new generation of activists now finding the courage to resist Vietnam-type ventures in the 21st century.
Today, on the 30th anniversary of the end of the war in Vietnam, new stories of spat-upon veterans appear faster than they can be challenged. Debunking them one by one is unlikely to slow their proliferation but, by contesting them where and when we can, we engage the historical record in a way that helps all of us remember that, in the end, soldiers and veterans joined with civilians to stop a war that should have never been fought.
"And, of course, it is the singling out of one group for discrimination that is the sure bet that the repukes will not be happy until they have turned our republic into a fascist state. If people do not wake up to the fact that if the repukes can get away with singling out one group, it is only a matter of time before they will single out another."
Yes, QL. Rove and thugs have read and studied the fascist handbooks very diligently. Create religious division, regional division, social division, which they have done very efficiently, and every other division they can find (immigrant division which they do nothing to form policies to do anything sensible, homosexuality division--Class divisions--I guess these are social)--and you have the country in chaos and ripe for their doing anything they want--like war forever--while they steal us blind and dismantle all freedoms and then you have fascist state. It is all about whipping up discrimination and using it to their advantage.
Interesting comment above...I, too, am old enough to remember Viet Nam quite clearly (had a brother in Saigon during) and while there certainly were folks who were antagonistic towards returning vets...and some who served who did not behave HONORABLY...I think this is another media revision over time that creates the myth that AMERICA disparaged their Vietnam vets...so, one has just got to wonder what the history my children and grandchildren hear in the future will be??? And is this administration really honoring the service of our troops once they get home...I don't think so.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/...27/
ixworld.html
Myers admits that his war has made things worse in the middle east.
In re: Fake spitting stories
I've heard many of these stories, usually from a wingnut who heard it from a friend who had a cousin's uncle's nephew who was a nam' vet who got spit upon by a "faggot hippy."
The deliverers of said stories usually segue into the obligatory rant about Fonda and pinko commies.
I find it beyond silly to think that not one of these poor vets in full military dress would just take such abuse without striking back, and thus create a public record by the way of a police report of a member of the military beating the shit out of a person who spit on them. Not one such record exists.
It's funny how wingnuts buy into the silliest horseshit stories . . .
"Moe Szyslak"
Thank you for that on the spitting and Viet Nam issue. That makes me feel a lot better about something I didn't ever see and couldn't imagine or justify.
Mornin', QL. Sheets upstairs.
"American pull-out 'would destabilise Middle East"
Tht may be true but it looks to me that staying has perhaps destabilized it faster. One thing I know is that this mob can't solve it whatever they do. They are institutionally, emotionally, motivationally, and morally incapable "Big Time". They have really put the cat amongst the pigeons, as my old pappy used to say.
"American pull-out 'would destabilise Middle East"
Tht may be true but it looks to me that staying has perhaps destabilized it faster. One thing I know is that this mob can't solve it whatever they do. They are institutionally, emotionally, motivationally, and morally incapable "Big Time". They have really put the cat amongst the pigeons, as my old pappy used to say.
Luke-- glad to have helped.
I just realized that I've been citing Lembke and his book -- "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam" -- for years now and don't actually own it, so I went over to Amazon and bought a copy. (Only four in stock...)
He doesn't mention it in the op-ed piece I reprinted above, but elsewhere he traces back people's "memories" of seeing the spitting on vets on TV. Turns out most-- almost all of them, actually -- "remember" a Sylvestor Stallone film-- "First Blood" I think? -- where fence-rattling Vietnam War protestors spit on Stallone. In other words, they "remember" complete fiction....
Read Dear Leader's daily thought... today's thought is on the value of loyalty.
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