I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Yowza!
One.
Rats! tWO, THREE.
Fore!
This ought to help up the death count when the bombers strike the subway and bus systems.
My brothers live in MN and I cannot ever see them giving up their SUVs for the train, but if the rest of the Minnesotans can get this going - more power to them.
Oil companies won't like that. Need to do something to fix it.
I'm on the bus
When will we start demanding sportier, more rugged and less efficient trains?
Eli - they'll demand that the transit authorities raise the ticket prices so that they won't be at an unfair competitive advantage.
I would rather see bigger demands for energy regulation. The whole country is getting ass raped by the oil industry. On top of their record profits they got a fat juicy tax break. I say we knock those fuckers off their high horse by massive grassroots campaigns for nationalization of oil companies through eminent domain. It will never happen, but it will drive them bat shit.
Eli - they'll demand that the transit authorities raise the ticket prices so that they won't be at an unfair competitive advantage.
Or maybe they can get some government subsidies to help them out...
This is good news. We spent a fortune in Dallas on DART. Thank god people are using it. Finally.
Yeah, we need more parking - definitely.
Will government surplus gas be sold in large blocks like cheese?
Since a lot of suburbanites rarely use public transit, they probably don't have much of an idea of how good or bad it is. Here in Atlanta, we have one of the most expensive fares in the country ($1.75), yet the service isn't as good as it could be. Why? Because unlike other states, Georgia refuses to fund it. It's that "it has to show it can make a profit" bullshit attitude that clouds the thinking of middle-class trailer trash.
I saw a white gy reading that stupid-assed flat-tax book by that scumbag Boortz while waiting for the train, I wanted to smack him. As far as I'm concerned, if ATlanta wants to be taken seriously and take the next step towards being a really big city with a big city attitude, they have to do public transportation the right way. Otherwise they ought to just shut it down and let the suburbs pretend that they're better off giving dollars to the gas companies or pennies to the state.
Cup O' Joe - Blog Of The Working Man!
But the oil company ads show them working with brown people, and coaching kids in Little League- why do you all hate Little League?
In Dallas...a growing number of complaints from motorists demanding to know why the system doesn't serve their destinations
As a former rider of DART, the routes were designed to help poor folk get around. The freeway system in Dallas allows people zip by the widespread poverty, never knowing it's there.
I'm mightily amused at their sense of entitlement: Not rich enough to continue to fill up their as-yet-paid-off SUVs, and now the indiginity of rubbing elbows with the working poor and having to look out the bus window at the hovels they have to live in.
Intimations of the collapse of suburbia, exurbia, and the middle class...
Now is the time to start building and expanding mass transit rail systems. I realize that it is a chicken and egg situation. To get ridership you must have reliable, frequent service. There must be overnight service. People are not going to give up their cars unless they *know* that they will be able to get home if they work late. We need to make it patriotic to use mass transit. The other thing to remember is that if you are building light rail (trolleys) you don't need to overbuild as if you're going to be running heavy trains at 100 miles an hour. We also will need government guarantees for insurance. This way local governments can band together and run a trolley system on abandoned right of ways. Mass transit is a government responsibility. Mass transit needs the same subsidies that the roads and airports get. We can move orders of magnitude more people per dollar spent with mass transit than with building more roads which would just fill up very quickly.
Yeah Joe Vecchio, I caught my brother reading the Boortz book. For him it had the fascination of a car wreck.
He suggested it might as well be called the "magical unicorn tax book."
Here in Atlanta, we have one of the most expensive fares in the country ($1.75), yet the service isn't as good as it could be.
Wow, I didn't know Pittsburgh had a twin!
they'll demand that the transit authorities raise the ticket prices so that they won't be at an unfair competitive advantage
Looks like they already did.
As a former rider of DART, the routes were designed to help poor folk get around.
On the other hand, the spiffy light rail in Pittsburgh seems to service only the middle- and upper-income areas. Buses only for us plebes.
The fun thing to consider is that public transit systems across the nation were purchased and dismantled to encourage private car ownership and the consumption of gasoline.
The fun thing to consider is that public transit systems across the nation were purchased and dismantled to encourage private car ownership and the consumption of gasoline.
Didn't Ronnie Raygun's mentor out in LA have something to do with that? The car dealer fella.
I love the Hiawatha Line. I take it every time I'm in the Minneapple. It's always packed, and there are plans to expand it here to St. Paul.
The nutjobs in the state said that building amounted to "social engineering", and that they were declaring war on the combustable engine (which I guess isn't a bad thing).
I get a chuckle every morning when I see the traffic reports of those suburban fuckers coming in here; driving an hour an a half to get to work.
Te he he.
Now is the time to start building and expanding mass transit rail systems.
Do they use enough oil, though? Why on earth would we want to expand anything that doesn't use lots of sweet, sweet oil?
We have to kill off the ReTHUGlican idea that autos and airlines "pay for themselves" when the truth is they're federally subsidized up the wazoo!
Public rail transit makes sense!
Our local paper reported a huge increase bus ridership yesterday.
My son walks almost everywhere these days because of the cost of gas. Just under $3 a gallon.
I think more people (esp. bizmen) have traveled to places with decent mass transit (like NYC, DC, Chicago, Europe, even Atlanta, etc...) in the past 20 years, and realize trains usually beat sitting in traffic. Being from a redneck red state, my first exposure to the NY subways in 1986 was such a revelation I ended up moving here. Driving sucks.
I get a chuckle every morning when I see the traffic reports of those suburban fuckers coming in here; driving an hour an a half to get to work.
I moved to an apartment that's a ten-minute walk to work. Best decision I ever made.
How about this?
Take back the government General Strike.
In order to further message against the war and the terrible consequences of government inaction in New Orleans, we are calling a General Strike for Friday, September 23 through Monday September 26. If you do not make in excess of $60K per year (or if you are sympathetic to the cause) please do not work these days.
Uncle Smokes,
I heart your gravatar!
Hey Tena--you live in Dallas?
I have a couple of friends moving there soon, and I was reminding them that, unlike South Dakota, there's auto inspections there with emissions standards).
Does Dallas still issue ozone alerts?
I remember on those days, the DART bus was only 50 cents (a bugger for folks like me who had a monthly pass).
Latest FaBlog: It's Buffle Time
Being from a redneck red state, my first exposure to the NY subways in 1986 was such a revelation I ended up moving here. Driving sucks.
I was a bit of a "I like to have my car" hayseed until I lived in London for a while. Back here now, driving does indeed suck.
OT
The St. Patrick's Four face six years inside and $250,000 fines for protesting war. Again. And they will not be allowed to present their defence this time.
Kangaroo court starts Monday in Binghamton, NY.
http://stpatricksfour.com/
http://www.thedailystar.com/opin.../09/
lt0916.html
-
A reliable authority (help me out here, someone smart) has predicted that PEAK OIL will will come within 3 weels either side of this year's ASmerican Thanksgiving. So traiuns should be designed to run electrically or on some as yet -- no RePUGs , not COAL-- undiscovered fuel!
Thanks, Big Vic.
Big Vic!
I like saying, "Big Vic!"
A friend in Dallas emailed me that she has started riding mass transit to work in downtown. She probably makes 60k/year, so gas prices are starting to have an effect on the middle class. Can't imagine what it is doing to the "median income" people making 40k or less.
Houston is fucked, thank you DeLay. He has worked in Washington to shaft any money for Houston mass transit. His answer to traffic problems is to build more roads.
Houston had a perfect way to solve the massive growth in west Houston. They took over land from a railroad that ran from almost downtown to the farthest west subdivisions. They could have used these existing rails and the surrounding land to make stations and parking. Instead, they pulled up the tracks and are going to make some massively wide freeway with a toll road down the middle.
Instead, they pulled up the tracks and are going to make some massively wide freeway with a toll road down the middle.
The only time I ever talk to some of my family in Houston is when they're stuck in traffic. That offers them the 5:30-7:00 window for catching up with family. Just horrible.
I like saying, "Big Vic!"
Uncle Smokes
I know you do, buddy. 
My community has a respectable free bus service from the University to outlying areas. Bloody free! When I first began riding, in the 70s, it was so crowded by the fourth stop (out of about ten scheduled stops on the route), you couldn't get a seat.
Then as we drifted through the 80s and into the 90s, ridership was down so low, I was afraid they'd cancel the bus. All of a sudden, it's up again. So there is a silver lining, however thin.
Now to get the buses to use biodiesel to reduce the stench they emit.
The other issue is that a city can be evacuated much more quickly with good public transit than with everyone getting in their Chevy Yukons and hitting the highway. Or at least those that have Chevy Yukons.
Light rail around the Twin Cities was initially scoffed at, but having used it... well, it's brilliant. It's helped revitalise downtown Mpls to some degree, and makes it really easy to get to the Metrodome for games.
I remember reading that the Mall of America didn't actually want a light rail stop, and then had to eat a large amout of crow.
They are also starting to build a commuter rail line that will connect the northwest suburbs to Minneapolis in the next few years. And even more plans to build bus-only lanes in another part of town.
Say what you want about Minnesota (yeah, I know it's cold), but we've been fighting the right for years to make this happen.
You can't argue with results.
The only time I ever talk to some of my family in Houston is when they're stuck in traffic.
You to? Most of my friends call around 5:30, I finally realized they are all bored in their cars looking for a way to pass the time.
First they yank us outta the trains, then they pull us back in again.
Just last night I took the Hiawatha train from the Mall of America to the Metrodome to watch the Twins play the White Sox. It was a joyous experience (which I've done before), the ride is about 20 minutes and it's relaxing. No hassles with parking downtown. And my fare was $1.50 each way.
After the game we took the train in the opposite direction from home to go get ice cream, spending more money downtown. Then we got on the train and headed home.
If we had driven to the game we would have paid about $5 to park and would most assuredly not gone to get ice cream downtown, which is a long walk from the Metrodome.
The St. Patrick 4 story sends a chill up my spine. The thuggery of the GOP operatives is mind blowing.
The big problem with MARTA in Atlanta is that a lot of white suburbs simply didn't want train lines that also stopped in the black districts They'd rather sit in traffic on 75/85 or GA400 than contemplate a supposed horde of black Atlantans making a quick getaway on the train after robbing them of their plasma screen TVs.
Just my opinion, and I'm sure Atrios himself isn't included in this huge generalization, but I find that a lot of people want light rail and trains because they don't want to sit on buses with poor brown people.
Buses often make much more sense than trains, at way less the cost. But suburbanites don't like buses.
Take back the government General Strike.
In order to further message against the war and the terrible consequences of government inaction in New Orleans, we are calling a General Strike for Friday, September 23 through Monday September 26. If you do not make in excess of $60K per year (or if you are sympathetic to the cause) please do not work these days.
DWD
I think it's a great idea in theory, but unfortunately, too many people are without any job security at all - no sick time, no vacation, no benefits. If they don't work, they don't get paid. Not many people in that instance can afford to miss a day's work. And these are the people who are so consumed by the immediate pressures to work and keep food on the table that they don't think about bigger picture politics. If they do, they think there's no way to make a difference so they don't bother.
The Dems really need to get serious about doing some grassroots outreach to these folks, to convince them to get out and vote because they can make a huge difference in how policies are carried out.
There's a hell of a lot more people earning less than 60k a year than there are Halliburton CEOs.
I remember reading that the Mall of America didn't actually want a light rail stop, and then had to eat a large amout of crow.
pseudonymous in nc | 09.17.05 - 12:34 pm | #
Correct. They were afraid of more crime (re: the kids that work at all the food courts in that gosh forsaken heck hole).
Now that it's such a success, they're developing all of the land around the MOA with new office space, condos, etc.
And yes, in parts of the US, population density does work against mass transit.
But in cities and metro areas? It's a failure of imagination and a matter of NIMBYism, not a problem with demographics or population density.
Just last night I took the Hiawatha train from the Mall of America to the Metrodome to watch the Twins play the White Sox. It was a joyous experience (which I've done before), the ride is about 20 minutes and it's relaxing. No hassles with parking downtown. And my fare was $1.50 each way.
Hey, I was at the game last night, too!!
Bummer, huh?
"incredibly creative parking at some outlying stations,"
Heh heh heh. Starting to look like Walmart parking lots?
Fucking MBTA stopped "night owl" service back in June(Fri-Sat buses run until 2:30AM, as opposed to 1AM as normal).
Other than that, can't really complain. It would be nice if they could run the Providence-Boston line a little longer like the Worcester-Boston one, but oh well.
One of my most joyous memories from college was sprinting out of the Kenmore T station just in time for the start of a Red Sox playoff game.
And noticing the "Parking: $50" signs around the neighborhood. Suckers.
The Worcester-Boston line saved my ass several times.
Now that it's such a success, they're developing all of the land around the MOA with new office space, condos, etc.
Heh. When I worked in A'dam, the office was actually based in a business park near Schiphol -- more land, easier to build larger and higher, etc -- but to get from the centre of town to Schiphol-Rijk took about 40 minutes, all with public transport. Tram to train to bus. Piece of piss.
But it's amazing what proximity to mass transit can do to development. Heck, every rental and house for sale in London advertises how far it is from the nearest Tube or train station.
who cares baby???
nobody!
were going to invade venezuela...
chavez says so.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20050...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
OT,
The Moron-in chief made the ludicrous claim that his admin is about to undertake the largest reconstruction effort the world has ever seen.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. WWII?
Ha ha again. Another spike in the Republican coffin. Hi gas prices will cause the middle class to seek mass transit which the Repugs have done everything in their power to thwart, right in front of everyones's eyes. Like the FEMA disaster, this is the end of Republican rule unless martial law is declaired and elections are cancelled. The Diebold machines will not be rigged in 06 because it will be so obvious this time that the dumbfucks in the media will start to look back at 04 and 08. Bush: always was a failure. Always will be.
I find that a lot of people want light rail and trains because they don't want to sit on buses with poor brown people.
In Minneapolis the LRT is integrated with the bus system, and you can transfer between them. Everyone rides the train. Commuter rail may have different demographics than LRT/subway.
The biggest reason, I think, that LRT is a success over buses is that buses have choke points for getting on and off. One tiny door in the front to board and pay your fair which causes queuing and long delays at the stops. The trains let people get on and off through multiple doors simultaneously so the time the trains wait at each stop is dramatically lower than buses.
The Moron-in chief made the ludicrous claim that his admin is about to undertake the largest reconstruction effort the world has ever seen.
No more outrageous than his claim that he was going to restore honor and dignity to the WH.
Mass transit is the nightmare of Big Oil. But, they only have themselves to blame.
it was ten years ago when I lived in Dallas, that I gave up driving.
I did not expect the transformation of consciousness that resulted.
A car lets you flit around from destination to destination, and while you're at you're destination, it waits in the lot almost demanding you hop back in and speed off to the next desination.
If you miss the bus, you have half an hour or an hour to kill, to walk around a check things out.
I called it Bus Buddhism--where the bus leaves you, there you are.
What was a 20-minute, white-knuckled commute, became a 90-minute relaxed ride.
I read more books than I did in school.
I saw more of the city and encountered the human diversity that my white collar job did not offer.
Public transit has a democratizing effect, and enhances the sense of community.
Of course, that is yet another reason for the powers that be to resist it.
The Worcester-Boston line saved my ass several times.
It's great! Between the red line and the purple line, I get from my house in Somerville to the Centrum(I won't call it that other name unless I have to)without breaking a sweat.
It probably did not make the national news, but Astroworld/Six Flags theme park in Houston is shutting down.
Why? It sits on a hundred acres at the end of Houston's light rail system which goes into downtown.
Buses often make much more sense than trains, at way less the cost. But suburbanites don't like buses.
That might be changing already.
In the DC area, I'd swag that the ridership on the commuter bus I use is up about 20% post-Katrina. That being said, the buses are falling apart, and the schedule, ehm, irregularities are driving me nuts.
Yes, it would be great to see a change in the way people behave regarding the use of private vehicles. But it won't last if it's more painful to use public transit. And I'm not sure there's money enough to maintain, let alone expand, the public transport infrastructure.
Because why should government actually work well and provide an essential public service?
Is closing time still Midnight in Cambridge and 1am in Boston? I guess it'd be nice if it ran for another hour so the bartenders and waitresses could ride home too.
I know, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
I lived in London shortly after they instituted the Congestion charge. All the barristers/soliciters I spoke with were despondent that they had to haul around files all day, necessitating a car.
a lot of people want light rail and trains because they don't want to sit on buses with poor brown people.
My problem with public transit is the obnoxious asshole who splays himself/herself out like it's a private club car, having completely inane conversations (at about 90 decibles) on a cell phone and hogging up more than half of your seat.
A General strike does not have to be a painful thing: doing it over two days would enable almost everyone to take one day off. If we did this, the message would be loud and clear for the bosses of both parties.
I am sick of the Republicans, but sickened by the anemic response of the Democrats; they literally will not stand up for the people anymore. My own Senator Stabenow voted for that ridiculous credit card slave bill. Why?
Shit, maybe it would be inconvenient but what is the alternative, bitching on the blog? Crying over the abuse of our resources?
People ask what they can do: they can do a general strike.
The Greenline T fare into town from the Western suburbs (Newton on out) is $3.00 ($1.25 back out). That's on a subway car only 7 miles from the center of Boston. Most people out here can afford to pay that. But not all.
I love trains. Soon we shall have one all thru the Phx metro area. A lot of folks are crying and whimpering, but the vote for was solid, solid, solid, something like nearly 70% of the residents wanted light rail. If I weren't on sabbatical, I'd be more than willing to take a bus into work - it's a snap, you can drink coffee, read the paper and finish waking up without causing imminent death.
I called it Bus Buddhism--where the bus leaves you, there you are.
One reason why Japan pushed ahead with mobile phone services -- games, text messaging, etc -- is that there's much more 'downtime' when you commute by train. (Plus, it's prohibited -- and worse, rude -- to talk on mobiles when commuting.)
I'm not sure whether there's a 'community' since you do tend to be protective of your personal space. But there's a sense of being in public space, too. I know commuters to Atlanta whose encounter with the downtown area is limited to the parking lot.
As one who works for a company involved with both transit authorities, I can only say "amen to that!"
Is closing time still Midnight in Cambridge and 1am in Boston?
Last call at 1, closing at 130 last I checked. I don't drink much, so I could be wrong. That's in Boston as well as everywhere else.
One day, we will have decent public transportn in the South.
Buses often make much more sense than trains, at way less the cost. But suburbanites don't like buses.
Class/Race again. Trains are for suburban commuters, buses are for Driving Africans 'Round Town...
Mass transit? What's that?
I'm not sure whether there's a 'community' since you do tend to be protective of your personal space. But there's a sense of being in public space, too
I guess that's what I meant--whether or not you like the people around you or speak to them, you are forced to acknowledge their existence.
Cars provide an existential bubble that isolates and sanitizes ones life.
I've taken the special MBTA Patriots Train to Foxboro. Good time, if you have people to meet at the stadium to *adequately* tailgate beforehand...
Here in Atlanta, we have one of the most expensive fares in the country ($1.75), yet the service isn't as good as it could be.
Wow, I didn't know Pittsburgh had a twin!
Eli
Last time I got on BART -- and on a weekend, no less -- the fare was $2.50 each way.
The funny thing is, a round trip on the Worcester-Boston line is $12. That's what, a 90 mile round trip?
I've actually looked into public transit for my 50 mile commute, but it would involve driving to the next county (5 miles or so) parking, taking one bus and then another, then a bus betqween jobs, then two home again to my car.
No idea why there's no direct train; there used to be.
When I lived in San Francisco, I didn't have a car. Didn't need one, couldn't afford one. In fact, a car was something of a liability. Took buses everywhere. Got a lot more reading done, since I not only read on the bus, I read while waiting for the bus. I also got more exercise walking between stops, and sprinting for that bus that was just slowing down to my stop while I was still halfway up the block.
Now I live in Los Angeles. Every few years I take the buses, but not out of necessity. F'rinstance, a few months back I decide I didn't want to pay for parking downtown, so I took mass transit from Canoga Park to the Staples Center. And every time I use mass transit in LA, I remember why I don't use mass transit in LA. (Hint: It has nothing to do with brown people.)
If LA had mass transit that was more reliable and convenient, I'd make more use of it.
Up until just after the Second War, Phoenix had a fully functioning, honest-to-pete trolly system - the real kind, the jolly little trolly with the clanging bell kind. All thru downtown, all the way out to the Indian School at Central. Everybody used it - whole districts were developed along its path. It defined the town's growth. I wish we'd been able to return to trollies rather than light rail, but close is better than nothing.
Clang! Clang!
I'd love public transportation because it would give me another productive hour of work.
Or maybe just decent transport. Without the extra n.
Tony Blair was shocked by the BBC's coverage of Hurricane Katrina, describing it as "full of hatred of America", Rupert Murdoch, chairman and chief executive of News Corporation, said last night.
Mr Murdoch, a long-time critic of the BBC who controls rival Sky News, said the prime minister recounted his feelings in a private conversation this week in New York.
Bill Clinton, the former US president, and Sir Howard Stringer, chief executive of Sony Corporation, also criticised the tone of the BBC's coverage during a seminar on the media at the Clinton Global Initiative conference in New York.
Mr Murdoch said Mr Blair was in New Delhi when he turned on the BBC coverage of New Orleans: "He said it was just full of hatred of America and gloating at our troubles."
Mr Clinton said the corporation's coverage had been "stacked up" to criticise the federal government's slow response.
Sir Howard, a former head of CBS News, said he had been "nervous about the slight level of gloating" in the BBC coverage.
Mr Clinton invited Sir Howard and Mr Murdoch to discuss the media in a global economy as part of a three-day gathering.
Somehow, riding the subway when the platform is well over 100 degrees and there are thousands of commuters cramming into the trains doesn't leave me waxing poetic about the glories of mass transit.
OTH - we have been car free for five years now. What a treat.
The funny thing is, a round trip on the Worcester-Boston line is $12. That's what, a 90 mile round trip?
I just met up with a few uncles and cousins of mine from Shrewsbury and Worcester. They all drive to the financial district in Boston, and all want to go on a killing spree by the end of the week. Considering it's a toll road to get there anyway, why not save some wrinkles?
When I'm Dallas, I very very rarely go anywhere outside my own neighborhood. I just avoid the parts of town that are traffic intense - like north Dallas.
I wouldn't mind finding an alternative around Lakewood. Wish I could get 6 or 8 bag of groceries onto a Vespa.
Up here - driving is heavenly. All roads run through beautiful landscape and there isn't much traffic. Unfortunately, everything is miles and miles and miles apart - there's no other way to get to a grocery store of any size, or a doctor or vet, for that matter, than to drive at least 55 miles up to Gunnison.
Lessons for the rebuilding of NOLA -- Poor Planning and Corruption Hobble Reconstruction of Iraq:
Reconstruction efforts are being delayed by corrupt contractors and a lack of continuity among the officers who oversee spending...
Somehow, riding the subway when the platform is well over 100 degrees and there are thousands of commuters
Open air trolly rides, QL! Open windows, ears flowing in the breeze.... No snow of course, you're shaded so the heat's no big deal, when it rains, the windows go up.... Clang!
Related to fuel economy, LAT polled a number of people, and found that 7 in 10 wanted viable mass transit. We have mass transit in LA, but the term is nearly meaningless here.
Makes me sad reading about other cities' successful mass transit systems. In Seattle, we're stuck paying billions for a system that's now probably never going to be built:
http://
seattletimes.nwsource.com...onorail17m.html
I voted "Yes" on the damned thing three times. Then they just pissed away all the money.
Get ready for Hurricane Phillipe.
People ask what they can do: they can do a general strike.
DWD
In America? What kinda mushrooms you put in that omelet this morning?
Related to fuel economy, LAT polled a number of people, and found that 7 in 10 wanted viable mass transit. We have mass transit in LA, but the term is nearly meaningless here.
My aunt in LA said the empty subway cars in "Collateral" weren't just an artistic device...
Come visit San Francisco Arthur. We still have trolleys out here.
Clang....
It's ironic.
Fifty years ago, the auto industry conspired with Big oil to tear up mass transit systems around the nation; Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Rochester, and Baltimore.
Now, everyone is trying to get it back.
I'm just old enough to remember when the green line was much more trolley-like. The only drawback, I get nauseous reading in moving vehicles. 
I wouldn't mind finding an alternative around Lakewood. Wish I could get 6 or 8 bag of groceries onto a Vespa.
Tena - That's funny. Told my wife I wanted the nice Vespa to run my errands since they are all on surface streets and most are within three miles. I could get two grocery sacks on it. Since I go every other day anyway, I seldom buy over two bags. Plus it gets like 90 miles to the gallon.
Bring back the club cars, where civilized people can smoke and drink.
It's quite a shock to some people where the Green line rides in the middle of Comm Ave out past the BU stops. Always fun catching one of the last trains and watching it dodge everyone streaming out of the bars.
Dartanyon - we used to have trollies that ran from Dallas out to the suburbs.
They tore those tracks up long ago - fools.
Damn fools.
The MetroLink Blue Line is across the street from my subdivision, and yet it doesn't go to anywhere I work. Both places are large universities. I'm puzzled as to why ridership to said places wouldn't be considered.
Prices are also very, very high--a 10-minute ride to Burbank is $9 one way.
Come visit San Francisco Arthur. We still have trolleys out here.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I used to take the bus in LA, down Santa Monica Boulevard. There were so many buses so often they didn't even print a schedule-- I never had to wait more than two minutes. I'm sure it's different in other parts of town.
Hmmm...will the age of the whistle-stop politcal campaign return?
The biggest reason, I think, that LRT is a success over buses is that buses have choke points for getting on and off. One tiny door in the front to board and pay your fair which causes queuing and long delays at the stops. The trains let people get on and off through multiple doors simultaneously so the time the trains wait at each stop is dramatically lower than buses.
Yeah. And it's also a LOT easier to get luggage and other cargo onto the train, since there are no steps to clumb. I've seen restaurant caterers literally wheeling their metal carts onto the train to get their food from one part of downtown to another, quickly and safely, without the hassle of loading it into a truck and then trying to park the thing at the destination point.
The LRT has got a lot of suburbanites and their families to go to downtown over the weekends and even during weekdays. The Old Chicago restaurant near the Warehouse District stop has invested in high chairs and crayons for the new influx of families!
And yes, it's also the preferred way to get to the airport from downtown Minneapolis. Furthermore, since a lot of national training companies hold their training sessions at hotels near the airport, getting to them is a snap now.
Here we go:
Transportation & Light Rail
The new $1.3 billion 20-mile METRO light rail line will soon connect central Phoenix with Tempe and west Mesa. Now that final design of the initial METRO light rail transit (LRT) line is concluding, major LRT construction activities have begun along corridor. The LRT system is scheduled to be open in December 2008... The light rail system will connect many of the Valley’s premier destinations, including Downtown—a hub of major valley entertainment and sports facilities, Central Avenue, Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport, parks, museums, medical and research centers, universities and colleges, charming historic neighborhoods to new mixed-urban living projects and the region’s largest employment centers. The City of Phoenix, Downtown Development Office is working to maximize the investment in light rail transit by promoting and attracting high quality mixed-use transit-oriented development near light rail stations. Below are some facts and figures about light rail:
* The light rail system will operate at street level in its own lane separated from auto traffic and will have some priority at traffic signals
* Light rail will operate on two sets of tracks, with trains of up to three cars traveling in both directions
* Light rail is truly mass transportation, with the ability to carry up to 600 passengers in a single three-car train and as many as 12,000-15,000 passengers per hour
* Light rail will run 18 to 20 hours per day, every day of the week, stopping at stations approximately every 10 minutes during peak hours
* Light rail vehicles are extremely quiet, making about as much noise as an automobile
* Light rail will travel at posted speed limits on city streets and can reach 55 mph in future freeway corridors
Three years! I can hardly wait!
Uncle Smokes sez:
Hmmm...will the age of the whistle-stop politcal campaign return?
If Glorious Leader campaigns for Congressional thugs next year it will be more like a "whistle-ass" campaign.
.
Come on, Doozer, we bitch here day after day. We watch people being starved to death in New Orleans. We watch the killing continuing in Iraq in a war predicate on lies and greed. We are staggering under unbelievable government policies that threaten our freedom. We watch our savings and equity disappearing as we struggle to survive the cost of the ineffective and ridiculous policies of this government and we cannot even take a day off work in protest?
Bullshit. I am calling it that because that is what it is. Spineless Democrats. Insipid liberals. You ask what you can do that would get the message of our discontent through: this would do it, and you call the suggestion that WE SHOULD SPEAK UP AND SAY NO, a mushroom induced fantasy. What the fuck do you want to do: wait until everyone is owned by the gentry? Until you are a wage slave for the richest 1%?
Hell, your post makes me despair.
Just did some research: there is absolutely no way that I could take public transportation to work. Damn.
Moe--I need three buses to get to CSUN, and the ones near my house run once an hour.
Prices are also very, very high--a 10-minute ride to Burbank is $9 one way.
Sallyh
Ouch.
Suddenly my $5 roundtrip BART ride doesn't seem so ridiculous.
I'd just like to say, "Fuck SEPTA."
I am supposed to go where Never Will Be Mrs Snow will be. I don't think I should go. But my absence will be noted and I will hear about it. I don't know what to do.
I now work at home, so riding the bus would kinda get in the way of things. But I take the bus to, yes, the gym.
But I take the bus to, yes, the gym.
Moe Szyslak
Hee.
I walk. Which I'm going to do right now.
Later batses.
Fifty years ago, the auto industry conspired with Big oil to tear up mass transit systems around the nation
They paid for their crime, though. Cost 'em a pretty penny, too!
A hunnert of 'em...
Well folks, I'm out of smokes.
Gotta walk to the grocery store for a fix.
Take care of your good selves, and don't forget to ask, "Is this trip really necessary?"
Thanks Atrios!
Bringing back and supporting rail travel is a part time calling for me. I read lots of white papers and attend meetings here in Cleveburg and around the state.
There is an incredibly long row to hoe on this front, but there are also a lot of resources and good folks trying to turn things around in the next 20 years.
And with that, I humbly submit:
http://tinyurl.com/dee58
http://tinyurl.com/d89yn
http://tinyurl.com/dnzyv
http://tinyurl.com/9rtf6
Semi-OT, but there's a great, if long, transcript of a speech by RFK Jr. at Smirking Chimp. You probably know he's an environmental activist, but he goes out of his way to appeal to sympathetic goopers who get their green news from Faux and Limbaugh.
In any case, there are a lot of things I didn't know, such as
A couple of months ago EPA announced that in 19 states it is now unsafe to eat any freshwater fish in the state for mercury contamination. We know where the mercury is coming from, those same coal burning power plants. In 48 states at least some of the fish are unsafe to eat. In fact, the only two states where all of the fish are still safe to eat are Alaska and Wyoming where republican controlled legislatures have refused to appropriate the money to test the fish.
Isn't that how Chimpy eliminated water pollution in TX?
Otherwise crusty and scary Brother Edmund's exchange with freshman typing class student, c. 1969:
B. Edmund: Do ya take the bus home?
Terrified Student: Yes, Brother.
B. Edmund: What do ya do with the bus when you get it home?
(long pause, nervous giggles)
DWD - the logistics of a nation-wide strike are impossible.
It would only register with the government if a significant number of people cooperated and that's just going to be logistically impossible. There are close to 300 million people in this country.
And a civil war? Come on - Jeebus. The entire idea makes my blood run cold. I don't want to see Americans killing each other over the goddamned Repugs of all things, and especially not over Bush.
You seem to think the outcome would be in our favor. There is no way in hell to tell what would be the result of a civil war or another revolution, but chances are very high that it wouldn't be good.
Sorry--forgot to give the Smirking Chimp link:
RFK Jr. Speech
We have no way whatsoever of choosing public transportation. That's life in the sticks. Even carpooling isn't really an option -- there's no one around to carpool with, except the cows, and they never do their share of the driving.
Thers - yep - that's the way it is up here and all over the western slope. Towns and resources are miles apart and there is no choice about it - drive or you don't go there.
I lived in Phoenix from my middle school all through high school years (graduated from Camelback) In those days the towns were renowned for wide "Mormon" streets and a simple grid design that suited the massive sprawl. The idea that light rail could flourish there is amazing. Are ther any plans for a line through West Phoenix looping back through the northern neighborhoods to Scottsdale?
The university provides bus service where the students pay a "transportation fee". The fee was low so many students still drove their cars onto campus and the buses ran half empty. This semester with gas so high, the buses are like cattle cars. Only problem is that the university is slow, kind of like FEMA, and is not putting on more buses. Even the city buses are running completely packed because people realize that they can go and do errands and not spend a small fortune to tank up the suv.
It's a golden opportunity for city and university planners to increase ridership and I expect that they will ignore it.
Did anyone catch the Seattle Town Hall event last night with Joe Conason? Transcript?
Couldn't make it but was glued to the Ron Reagan interview with state repubs, "Mainstream or Extreme. The Future of the Republican Party" on the Seattle Channel. Actually detected repub concern for the out of control spending and arrogance and even a bit of humility...
Transcripts? Comments from anyone attending last night?
DWD; Methinks you misunderstood me just a trifle. A general strike would wake up the PTB bigtime, mostly, I think, because of it's utter unlikeliness in the good ol' USofA. The idea itself is probably a very good one, it's just that we don't do that around here like they do in Europe. The sheer scope of a GS in a country this big is one barrier, and the Phil Ochs Liberals are another. The right wing and the Soft Chewy Center™ can be left out of the equation, unless things get real bad.
Thew only thing that I can think of that argues in favor of a GS is that to be effective, it has to shut down the big cities--or at least slow them down real good--and the big cities are mostly Blue strongholds. Don't look for much out of places like Houston, though...
Jeepers, Vandy is in danger of going 3-0 in the SEC.
That's life in the sticks
Here too. My location and schedule make it a non-option. But although I drive a pickup, I choose a 2WD 4cyl/5sp model that gets 27mpg. An SUV would be rediculous as far as I'm concered, I know how to handle snow and ice and don't need an overpriced, overweight vehicle to compensate for any lack of driving skills.
urban and regional planners love news like this.
Even if the ridership levels don't hold, maybe people will at least be more aware of the MPG ratings of their five ton SUVs and demand to get at least 5MPG
We have been debating between Philly and Portland as a semi-retirement stop, and right now Portland is winning cause it has the light rail that runs every eight minutes. Philly has the regional rail line, but on the line we were looking at,it only runs every hour.
It took gas prices around $3.00 a gallon to get the people who live in Avondale, Glendale, west Phoenix, etc. to decide that they needed to vanpool to Chandler (Queen Creek and Price, for you GWPDA). They got 11 people to sign up: now they're trying to get their schedules arranged so it will work. It's a bit tough when you work in a tech support call center.
As for myself, I live in west Mesa, AZ, about half a mile from the 101 Freeway. It's 11 miles to work one way. I keep thinking about moving, but if I move further south, into Chandler, it only makes that trip to Mom and Dad's out in east Mesa even longer. Of course, there are no buses plying this route--it's Phoenix, we love our cars!
I'd rather be able to buy a VW Lupo TDI - 75MPG - Banned in the USA - and convert my local chinese restaurant's grease to Biodiesel @ about 40c per Gal.
It's a golden opportunity for city and university planners to increase ridership and I expect that they will ignore it.
sekmet - 1:31 pm
Or else they will begin by raising those low transportation fees in order to pay for the additional overhead of extra buses, drivers, fuel, etc.
And people will get pissed off at being asked to pay more to ride in cattle cars, and the slightest decrease in gas prices will inspire the newest "converts" to desert in droves.
Public transit never seems to be able to break through the glass ceiling of crappiness into genuine respectability.
I've mentioned a few times that the Simpsons episode aired many years ago in which Marge mentions that Homer "thinks public transportation is for losers" perfectly captures the low estate to which public transit has tragically fallen in Amerika.
Uncle Smokes - Does Dallas still issue ozone alerts?
I'm more than an hour late with this - but oh baby. Do they ever. It's gotten really bad the last several years. We had Bush as gov, remember? Now north Texas is so polluted that childhood asthma is almost epidemic. It's one ozone alert after another, all summer, Mr. Tena tells me.
Joe Barton is directly responsible for the problem. He sits on the finance committee for the EPA and protects the 3 cement plants in counties that abut Dallas. They are literally killing us.
Dammit, I was misled. Vandy is in danger of going 2-0 in the SEC. Wake Forest is not an SEC team.
My institution offers free bus service as a benefit- but since they moved my office off campus it no longer makes sense to take it (takes way to long to get the the office).
I wish they'd offer more routes, but the ones they do have are okay.
They've also started adding hybrid buses to the fleet, which is a good thing.
I've mentioned a few times that the Simpsons episode aired many years ago in which Marge mentions that Homer "thinks public transportation is for losers" perfectly captures the low estate to which public transit has tragically fallen in Amerika.
That's true. Down here what kind of car you drive is a status symbol. What kind of loser rides the bus?? /snark.
THe problem I have with buses is not the people that are on them. I've lived many places sans car and had to use buses. The problem is that you have to ride them like 10-20 times to figure out the fucking schedule, and for a while you're going to find yourself off in some random direction. It especially sucks if you're someplace new and you don't know the roads. The most fun is when you stand at a stop for an hour before realizing the schedule must be messed up/outdated and the line you're looking for isn't coming. It's also a blast when you don't have exact change and no one will help you out.
The situation has slightly improved with the web and the ticket machines, but dang if it doesn't take research to figure out.
A train or light rail is a line. Maybe with a couple of forks. Pretty hard to screw up going from point A to B. And lots of people are usually at each stop, so you know if something's up with the schedule.
Not everything is racism.
I'd rather be able to buy a VW Lupo TDI - 75MPG - Banned in the USA - and convert my local chinese restaurant's grease to Biodiesel @ about 40c per Gal.
BS Detector
Just out of curioiity, has anyone done any emissions research on the various forms of biodiesel? Diesels are dirty to start with--and the TDI doesn't pass even our withering EPA standards--and I wonder what effect things like chicken fat would have on exhaust emissions.
There's a group here in Los Angeles called The Bus Riders Union. They want more buses to serve poor areas--cool, that's not a problem. Which is a problem is that they get the Feds involved and all sorts of decrees are issued.
The result is that the increasingly overburdened surface streets have fleets of mostly empty buses barreling down them--slowing down car traffic and chewing up the streets. It's too late for Los Angeles to have a viable rail system that would effectively serve the sprawl here, but almost everyone I know would *love* a system like London or NY or [insert most major European cities here] that has a train/subway infrastructure that actually goes to places that people want live, work and play at, not which City Council member got the pork directed to their district. *SIGH*
This ought to help up the death count when the bombers strike the subway and bus systems.
ootpoot
Like they can't strike bridges and expressways.
Give me a break!
What kind of loser rides the bus?? /snark.
fourlegsgood
Hey, never learned how to drive.
Never had any desire to learn.
Give me directions and a bus or train schedule and I will get there.
If it can't be reached by mass transmit, it's not worth the trouble.
I lived in Minneapolis for 20 years, during which time light rail was continually defeated by Repub legislators. They said over and over again that nobody would ride a light rail line. It took Jesse Ventura as guv. to finally cut through the BS and get the first line built. What are those naysayers saying now???
I lived in Minneapolis for 20 years, during which time light rail was continually defeated by Repub legislators. They said over and over again that nobody would ride a light rail line. It took Jesse Ventura as guv. to finally cut through the BS and get the first line built. What are those naysayers saying now???
David in Midwest | 09.17.05 - 7:05 pm | #
David: The smart ones aren't saying diddly. You still get the occasional moron who is all for ripping up the Hiawatha Line, but if he tried that, half the business interests along the line would take turns kicking his ass into next week.
It helps that Minnesota's state lege is now a lot less Republican than it used to be. In 2004, the Republicans went from something like a thirty-seat advantage to a one-seat advantage, and if the recount in one district had gone a hundred votes the other way, the Democrats would now control both state legislative chambers, thus making Pretty Boy Pawlenty the lamest of lame ducks. As it is, a lot of the worst GOP clowns went down in defeat.
It won't take long for mass transit prices to exceed gas prices. I am lucky in that I can work from home. I have worked from home for the last few weeks although I still have an office where I work. I have 2 gas guzzlers and I am thinking about selling them and buying 1 economy car, cash. I can save as much as $1500.00 a month! I can't help but think of the dammage this can have on the economy. Immagine if a few million decided to do the same thing. Cars that wouldn't be sold, roads that can't be built or maintained, garages out of buisiness. I can work for a company in California as well as a company in DC. An Asian can do the same at 1/2 the salary. The economic impact is astounding! Fuel prices had better be as low as possible. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not reality based!
All the good stuff about LRT in Mpls does not matter. Bringing families downtown, businesses to MOA, etc.
It doesn't matter because there are now laws against smoking in bars. Bars are closing down. The rethugs are hopping mad as they declare that people will flee the state to regain their rights.
I can't believe I missed a transit discussion! Waaaaahhhh!!!!
The Minnesota Rethugs -- Phil Krinkie and his ilk -- didn't say nobody will ride the Hiawatha line. What they said was that there was no way the line would break even on costs, which is true. This fact wouldn't be so bad if there were not already a means of public transportation that followed the Hiawatha line -- the 180 bus, which was a grand total of 5 minutes slower and already carried tons of folks to and from the Megamall. LRT hasn't been a boon for anyone except the construction companies.
Remember, the number that matters isn't how many folks ride the line, it's how many folks rode the line who would not have ridden the 180 route.
Another thing to note is that the drivers hate the LRT. One told me that the state got the specific trains from Sweden cheaply because they were beta models. Whether these have been updated or phased out since then, I have no idea, but apparently the Teamsters' Union was more than a little worried about its drivers.
Anyone who has ridden the Green Line in Boston knows that Light Rail can be egailitarian.
LRT is faster than busses, can run more frequently, and despite the high start up costs, costs less to run and maintain (electric motors, bein more efficient, last longer, and breakdown less frequently than deisal.)
The Minneapolis buses were manufactured in Canada, not Europe. They were made specifically for the LRT, not beta models. There is no possible way the 180 bus line was only five minutes slower. Driving along the road the parallels the LRT, one very quickly gets left behind the train. 800,000 people did not ride the 180. 80,000 maybe.
All that said, the increase in Hiawatha line ridership is inflated by the fact that it is still very new and people are only coming to use it. Gas prices are probably only a minor contributor to the increase.
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