I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
First?
i'm retired...
unless bedlam doesn't count
The Republican Nemesis
Every democrat must read.
Generous benefit? I'll tell you a generous benefit, its the ridiculous tax breaks the rich get and DONT EARN in America.
Why dont they pay their fair share.
It just isn't that generous a benefit, but we've been programmed to perceive defined benefit plans as a "gift" from companies...
It's called "manufacturing consent."
But I just referrenced Chomsky, so I must be a crazed, wild-eyed liberal. So don't pay any attention to me.
Well, that would be lovely. But in my case with all the corporate shuffling I never stayed in a company long enough to vest in the money. 2 years here, 2 years there--through no fault or no choice of my own.
I have left corporate America now, and my money is my own. But the screwing continues for everyone else I know....
But all this pension stuff was back when the worker had a contract with the employer. In exchange for labor the worker was promised enough money to live on during his working life and that he/she would not be reduced to eating cat food in their old age.
How quaint.
Where's the shock over golden parachute plans for execs? Over annual bonuses for execs that total tens and tens of millions? Where's the shock over that?
Yeah, it's pretty rude of workers to expect as part of their compensation for working their asses off that they get some, you know, compensation.
But I just referrenced Chomsky, so I must be a crazed, wild-eyed liberal. So don't pay any attention to me.
res ipsa loquitur
*PHEW* I thought I was the only one...
-
"Feds Monitor Muslims Without Warrants; Search For Nukes"
Allahu Akbar! Finally, the feds get some balls.
Hecate ...
How did you break your ankle? Was it those Manolos?
P.S. Executives deserve those golden parachutes because they work hard!
we are all living longer!
Why dont they pay their fair share.
Hubris Sonic -- 9:48 am
they'll tell you they pay more than their fare share...
they'd be lying, but wtf, it's what they'd tell ya...
.
Now that the corporatists have done away with pensions, w can really get to work on doing away with Social Security. They really won't be happy til we're living in company conclaves, forced to work for nothing more than food and safety. They'll educate our kids just enough so that they will be able to handle the machinery.
will the companies start recycling their workers?
I was a little shocked at Drum's post too. The bias against defined benefit plans probably comes from the same sources as those who think of social security as an "entitlement".
Don't bite the hook. These talking points are from our corporate masters who would love nothing more than raiding their pensions and dropping the FICA contribution.
Questions: What were your modest investment return expectations?
Would the same be true for a 7.5% split between ee and er? (Sorry, I'm really math challenged)
Thank you - that's a very interesting analysis to me!
Add onto that the big reason why defined benefit pensions have been phased out, and cast as being over-generous.
That is, the raiding and under-funding of pension funds. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is nearly broke, because so many pension trustees got 'creative' with their investments and had to have their funds bailed out.
Look, the corporate GOP's ideal world is to have people work till they're unable, as many hours as possible, always worrying about the stroke of bad luck that might fuck them over big time. And show some sense of gratitude towards their feudal lords for such generosity.
After all, you're meant to be thankful that your job exists, and that you're in it.
Trading salary increases for better retirement benefits
Just goes to show that's a bad strategy for Unions. It allows companies to lower overall compensation in 2 steps: 1st the salaries, and then the retirement benefits. And they'll have the full support of the Washington-Monthly-Liberals.
Where's the shock over golden parachute plans for execs? Over annual bonuses for execs that total tens and tens of millions? Where's the shock over that?
Where's the shock over the remunerations committee circlejerk, where executives vote one another the 'going rate' they plucked from the sky?
Moonbootica,
Did you see my posts before, I got the wizardreplica Chloe purse I ordered. Very nice. Soft supple leather, detail impeccable. My sister will be pleased.
SSquirrel
Atrios,
You are missing the point.
Bus drivers are supposed to be the have nots. Remember Ralph Kramden? And he was white!
Executives, NYT reporters, and other college educated white men should be the haves. And they should not have to sit around and endure this situation where swarthy or worse bus drivers get to retire at age 55 with $27,500 when they have to wat till 59 1/2 to retire with no guaranteed salary (but a million in the bank).
It's unconscionable, that's what it is.
Retire at 55?
Not in Bush's Murika. Look at 68 to 75 realistically. If that doesn't work for you, Home Depot hires seniors for $8 an hour.
Better than going hungry.
.
Where's the shock over golden parachute plans for execs? Over annual bonuses for execs that total tens and tens of millions? Where's the shock over that?
thank you, goddess. if I may provide an example:
the CEO of an unnamed company decided, probably as he was chauffeured into the office, that he wouldn't compensate his workers for struggling to get into work this week.
We're talking about a good many people who are only making $30K in NYC, and who are being forced to either get up three hours early and walk in from outer Brooklyn or Queens, or be gouged by the cabbies. And this fuckwit, whose annual salary is somewhere around $500K, his attitude is "well, they work for a living, they should find a way to get here."
CEO salary and benefits compared to average employee pay is like 500:1 now isn't it?
Isn't there a ceiling on that ratio in Japan?
And as well, contributing to 'retirement plans' that in fact do not exist until vesting - which for most people, in the last round of economic debacles, means never. The 'contributions' then are returned to the company without pain or difficulty. Shell games.
Benjamin Franklin:
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
The Founding Fathers would puke on Bush.
At least Stalin could havew a beer.
Pensions? The Indians and Chinese and Mexicans don't need no stinkin' pensions. The MTA is a closed system though, no competition, and will get an elite wage for it's service. But industries that compete on a global scale will have to adjust to global bennie packages. I wonder if you still have to pay for the bullet in China if your being executed?
If that doesn't work for you, Home Depot hires seniors for $8 an hour.
And when big retailers hire seniors, you're meant to think 'oh, isn't that good of them?'
CEO salary and benefits compared to average employee pay is like 500:1 now isn't it?
Isn't there a ceiling on that ratio in Japan?
Yup. And yup.
Bastards
Where's the shock over golden parachute plans for execs? Over annual bonuses for execs that total tens and tens of millions? Where's the shock over that?
Oh, well, see, they worked hard for that.
pseudonymous ...
You are one cranky Brit.
And I am in love with you for it.
That is all.
sounds marvellous SSquirrel 
If you as a worker owned a share of the means of production
all this kvetching would be unnecessary...
absent a truly socialist economy, nobody who works for a boss should be without union; especially no worker who labors for a corporate/government entity...
You are one cranky Brit.
And I am in love with you for it.
That is all.
Hear, hear!
And this fuckwit, whose annual salary is somewhere around $500K, his attitude is "well, they work for a living, they should find a way to get here."
You know, it's going to take making very scary examples out of a few of these fuckwits. I'm sorry, but that's what I think. Maybe when Merkins can't pay for the electricity to watch tv any more....
Wow,
Drum knows jack-shit about pensions doesn't he?
God what a douche -- it is like he channelled Donald Luskin.
pseudonymous ...
You are one cranky Brit.
And I am in love with you for it.
You mean he's an immigrant?
Should he be allowed to post here?
I know that England isn't one of "those countries" (Lady Di was so nice) but how do we know he isn't black?
He could be a terorist.
Like many Americans I will cobble together a retirement based on a contribution to a tax sheltered annuity and the pissy 5% or 6% my employer contributes to a TIAA-CREF. That and the realization that I will NOT retire at 55 makes me hope I won't have dog food.
I wanted to fucking thrash Fred Barnes when he dismissed the strike in NYC saying that he could be a "bus driver" in NYC. Really motherfucker well go try it then. Everybody is making retiring at 55 with a half salary such an elite perk. Why the fuck shouldn't the average Joe be able to do that?
By the way, Merry Christmas everybody (please consider this a warm wish for happiness and not a challenge of any beliefs). I hope the New Year brings happiness, prosperity and peace.
Listen to this:
More than half the nation's largest companies are giving their top executives extra money to pay taxes due on corporate perks such as luxury cars and even on capital gains, according to a published report.
The Wall Street Journal reports that a study the paper ordered from compensation-research firm Equilar Inc. found that 52 percent of the nation's 100 largest public companies revealed that they gave the extra payments to cover taxes, known in the industry as "gross-ups," to one or more top executives last year.
Most of those disclosures are buried in footnotes or attachments of other filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission and are not easily apparent, according to the report.
That practice is spreading, the paper reports, as only 38 percent of the companies made those kinds of payments in 2000.
While some of the payments were only a small portion of executives' pay, other senior managers received millions.
It's from CNN.
and then there are the people who really are too stupid to live.
They even begrudge poor their pittance, it's sad really, and tragic.
If you as a worker owned a share of the means of production
all this kvetching would be unnecessary...
absent a truly socialist economy, nobody who works for a boss should be without union; especially no worker who labors for a corporate/government entity...
You know I'm in love with you, right?
Unions accuse Provident of closing pension by back door
Door-to-door loan specialist Provident Financial yesterday became the latest employer to inform staff they needed to increase contributions or face cuts in benefits after a review found its final salary pension scheme was "unaffordable".
The company said it paid a quarter of net profits to its pension fund last year and needed to cap future liabilities before they ate further into profits. It told staff they must double their contributions to 14% or leave the scheme. Few employees are asked to pay more than 10% of their salary into an occupational scheme and most pay between 4% and 8%.
I've never had this dilema before. I usually write Merry Christmas on Christmas presents without thinking.
Now I'm struggling not to write "Happy Holidays from Satan and Chairman Mao".
But I guess that's how Fox wants it. Republicans gain from polarization.
retirement?
on what?
Being now, slightly over 103 years old, I can tell you that when I retired, 52 years ago, my retirement pension of $86 a month looked mighty luxe. 'Course, I've had to take a second job now.
It's from CNN.
Echidne of the snakes- 10:04 am
i would take it as a positive sign if it were to occur that a large number--say 500 or so--of the top executives of US/International corporations were captured and slaughtered, wholesale--decapitated would work for me--on world-wide tv...
I read in "Making Light" that the members of the TWU have a life expectancy 10 years shorter than the norm, because of their lousy working conditions.
An extra 15%? Whoopee! A drop in the bucket. (The rule of thumb is that salary/wages is ONE-THIRD of the 'cost' of an employee.)
3.5% raise. Gee, I've worked in companies where you had to be a white man to get that high a raise. Sigh.
Echidne,
i read that yesterday, and nearly had an aneurysm.
So, on top of making a salary that has absolutely NO bearing on performance, one doesn't have to pay taxes?
Steve Martin was right.
Good Christmas Eve morning, dear friends.
Retirement? Are we going to be able to?
I'm never retiring. If I get too sick to work they can give me a poison pill.
the chairman mao book story was rather silly considering the student could have purchased the book easily at a 2nd hand bookstore without any data recording whatsoever
wait
wasn't winston smith monitered in a bookstore or am i misremembering
The days of pretending to care about workers are over. It's sink or swim now, with no help from the 'Pukes.
It's a return to the system of lords and vassals, thanks to the red-state rubes who "hate" socialism, and who vote for creatures like Chimpy and crew.
Steve Martin was right.
watertiger
???
So, on top of making a salary that has absolutely NO bearing on performance, one doesn't have to pay taxes?
Yup. I heard about a study which showed that several firms raised their management salaries when the firms were doing especially poorly.
Generous benefit? I'll tell you a generous benefit, its the ridiculous tax breaks the rich get and DONT EARN in America.
Earning is for the little people.
You know I'm in love with you, right?
Hecate Malificent 10:06 am
first i heard of it, but, okay, and thanks!!!
and the feelings are reciprocal, goddess...
Morning bats.
Forgive the OT, but if you're near an NPR station and you like good choral singing, Kings College's ceremony of lessons and carols is on now.
Blessed holidays.
wasn't winston smith monitered in a bookstore or am i misremembering
It was an antiquarian's shop.
I have a vague memory from the one tax law class that I took that when the company pays the exec's taxes the exec had to count that as income, which was, of course, taxable. Thus, it was exorbitantly expenseive for a company to pay the exec's taxes. Maybe they changed the law under Bush.
res,
"How to make a million dollars and not pay taxes. First, get a million dollars. Then...don't pay taxes."
The rest of the routine:
"and when the IRS comes around and asks you why you didn't pay taxes, just say, 'I . . . FORGOT!'"
CEO salary and benefits compared to average employee pay is like 500:1 now isn't it?
Up until a few years ago, Ben and Jerry's had a policy that the folks at the top could make only 7x what the lowest-paid worker did. But when they went hunting for a pro CEO, they had to get rid of that restriction. Now they're a Unilever company...
yes, as their companies were tanking airline executives were demanding retention bonuses, because there's such an incredible demand for executives of failing airline companies
Being now, slightly over 103 years old, I can tell you that when I retired, 52 years ago, my retirement pension of $86 a month looked mighty luxe. 'Course, I've had to take a second job now.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar
'older' counterperson asks, 'would you like fries with that?' and turns towards the kitchen gently pushing walker in front of herself while teenager's mouth drops open at the prospect of having to wait an entire 3 minutes longer
retiring at 55 with a half salary
Seems mutually exclusive to me. Many will still have a sizable mortgage payment and childrens' college tuitions to pay at 55. They're going to have to continue working somewhere.
A sweet deal I've seen at our school district though, is fractional-pay retirees at 55 immediately returning to the same job as consultants at full pay. Often never even changing offices.
wasn't winston smith monitered in a bookstore or am i misremembering
It was an antiquarian's shop.
Echidne of the snakes | Email | Homepage | 12.24.05 - 10:12 am | #
Christopher Hitchens has made it impossible for me to read Orwell any more.
georg3e--I've downloaded the album. Wonderful. It's one of the few collections that contains 'Once in David's Royal City,' a traditional Irish song I was raised on.
I don't know what the hell Kevin Drum is thinking. $55,000 a year including overtime? You couldn't raise a family well on this salary in Philadelphia, much less NYC. And why do people with middle-class salaries who control their own income expect other people to work for nothing? When did it become okay to insist that workers subsidize the cost of transportation (or fire fighting, or policing, or nursing, or teaching, or whatever) by taking very low salaries? The deal is supposed to be that you put in a full day's work, you get paid a wage you can live on. When Kevin Drum agrees to limit his salary to $55,000 with a 1/2 salary retirement benefit, I'll try to work up some sympathy for his lack of sympathy.
We Northerners don't like to admit it, but there is a deep undercurrent of racism running through many issues like this one.
I used to go to a supermarket where they had old people packing the groceries, some too wobbly to stand. I couldn't let them pack mine.
yes, as their companies were tanking airline executives were demanding retention bonuses, because there's such an incredible demand for executives of failing airline companies
Atrios
we here at 'art in the air inc.' have hired some 250+ former airline executives to market our new product 'ZEN SWIRL AURA HARMONY BALANCING SYSTEMS'
My dad was one of those rare corp. execs who believed the business of business was to create jobs. But he always told me unions were bargaining away workers' futures much of the time because corps will promise anything in the short term, then when the going gets tough, pull up stakes in the middle of the night.
Eligere--the LA Daily News, not exactly a publication with a liberal pedigree, ran a story recently on what it would take for a family of 4 to get by in LA (used cars, no vacations, renting). $70K was the number they came up with.
I couldn't let them pack mine.
Yes - well, they were fired for poor customer service anyway....
When Kevin Drum agrees to limit his salary to $55,000 with a 1/2 salary retirement benefit, I'll try to work up some sympathy for his lack of sympathy.
I'd like to see him pay some union dues out of that $55,000, too. Union workers pay for the benefits they get, often with weeks on a picket line in addition to their dues. Fuck Kevin Drum.
I couldn't let them pack mine.
Yes - well, they were fired for poor customer service anyway....
Yes, the ethical dilemma had no good solutions.
This would all be moot if we just returned to an agrarian, slave-based economy.
Hi bats.
Nothin goin on here Chaz Dickens hasn't explained for us.
This would all be moot if we just returned to an agrarian, slave-based economy.
I could use a love slave.
Just sayin.'
This would all be moot if we just returned to an agrarian, slave-based economy.
Or if we just killed anybody over 60 with an income of less than 200,000 a year.
America's cruelest capitalists. A show you won't see on Fox.
I could use a love slave.
Attaturk believes in slavery...
'Once in David's Royal City,'
They open with that every year. Sublime.
I could use a love slave.
Just sayin.'
watertiger -10:18 am
(waves beguilingly, slavishly...)
Or if we just killed anybody over 60 with an income of less than 200,000 a year.
I'm liking the Logan's Run idea.
After all, women aren't sexually desireable once they hit puberty...
I could use a love slave.
Does the job come with health benes?
Or if we just killed anybody over 60 with an income of less than 200,000 a year.
I don't think NTodd's Pa would like that, come January.
women aren't sexually desireable once they hit puberty...
Truer words were never spoken aloud.
Christopher Hitchens has made it impossible for me to read Orwell any more.
You should. Orwell has quite a few choice words for fucks like Hitchens.
It's also interesting to think about how many industries have simply externalized their labor costs to us. I now pump my own gas, do my banking on a machine, make my own travel arrangements on line, spend hours on recorded phone do-loops before getting to talk to a real person. The labor costs just got transferred from the company to me and I pay them with my time.
My dad used to refuse to bus his own table at fast food places. His theory was that the restaurant should create a job and pay someone to do that. And if some exec made a little less in order for that to happen, so much the better.
Retirement would be far less of a problem if we could make smoking popular again.
I'm liking the Logan's Run idea.
I'm 34. I'd be dead.
NTodd--has NTodd's Pa gotten to the Fortress yet?
Corporate culture has already successfully made health insurance and retirement benefits seem like "gifty" components of compensation, subject to immediate and arbitrary suspension.
And real wages have been basically frozen for years now. I wonder when corps will heroically allow workers to pay the corps for the right to come to work for them?
Does the job come with health benes?
It's way too early in the day to tell you how I first read that.
You should. Orwell has quite a few choice words for fucks like Hitchens.
pseudonymous in nc | Email | 12.24.05 - 10:21 am | #
I read most of Orwell's books in college.
But the degree to which Orwell's been used to justify the right has made me go back and look at the reactionary side of him.
He's got some of the most inane quotes like "socialism's never written a song worth singing" and stuff about Jews and gays.
Max P--that's coming soon.
Hey Woody? Maybe you and Olaf can come down to the Valle del Sol and spend your retirement building my ramada?
OT
Has the pregame hype started yet?
NTodd--has NTodd's Pa gotten to the Fortress yet?
They left the house around 10 (assuming NTodd's Pa's Wife was motivated) and should be here by noonish. Even though I cancelled Christmas, I suspect the vehicle will have a bunch of presents, which annoys me to no end.
You should. Orwell has quite a few choice words for fucks like Hitchens.
I'm embarassed to say I've read only 1984. If I was going to "do" Orwell, where should I start?
It's way too early in the day to tell you how I first read that.
I'll just use my active imagination.
NTodd--does your family celebrate Orthodox Christmas instead?
res, tigre: thanks. The MTA dispute brings out the old lefty in me, and I sorta like how it feels.
i would take it as a positive sign if it were to occur that a large number--say 500 or so--of the top executives of US/International corporations were captured and slaughtered, wholesale--decapitated would work for me--on world-wide tv...
Oh, harsh. Though the Fortune 500 Pillory would suit me just fine.
res - _Shooting An Elephant_
And off to tread. These old bones don't keep working without a lot of exercise.
RIL:
Homage to Catalonia...
no one who has not read it should call themselves well-read...
on killing an elephant is also compelling; Road to Wigan Pier, too; butr start with "...Catalonia"...
"It's from CNN." Consider the source. Now, if it was mentioned on Fox I might give it some credibility. Everyone knows CNN is a tool of the liberal Democrat-Socialist faction of the country.
re: agrarian society
Seeing some indonesian guy *carving*!!! his new boat after the tsunami made me realize the *post-breakdown* society isn't going to exactly be, uh, 'woodstock nation'
i tell my girlfriend we have to get to the country and learn to 'can' food etc... she says I have to buy her a 'canning' outfit...
If I was going to "do" Orwell, where should I start?
Oh, it depends. If you're interested in social stuff, then The Road To Wigan Pier. On war and politics, Homage to Catalonia. To understand what Orwell would think of Hitchens, read the latter.
They're all online here.
You'll find good stuff in Wigan Pier about the working class in Britain between the wars.
NTodd--does your family celebrate Orthodox Christmas instead?
Heh, I used to force every fucking holiday I could down my folks' throat. We celebrated St Nick's Day, Epiphany, whatever I could use as an excuse to get presents, just so I could approximate Chanukah (damn Ken Weiss and his longer holiday!).
But I have to say, I really am much more into the Xmas spirit this year without the burden of shopping for presents. I just want to hang out with the family by a roaring fire as the snow falls outside. We are still doing our traditional Xmas Eve dinner out, but Mom won't let me pay this year--she's concerned I don't have enough money to buy Cairo and Sam their kibble. Silly mom...
Woody, pseud - May we please note just exactly how co-incident with our academic fields our recommendations are of various Orwells?
Funny!
Wow. Orwell died young. I did not know that.
Thanks, psedo. Bookmarked it.
Didn't they run a survey showing that a surprisingly large percentage of middle-class individuals thought that, income-wise, they were in the upper 10%?
Porky the Pig Buchanan on MSNBC still pushing the lie that "there isn't time for warrants" in defense of the chimp's spying.
If I was going to "do" Orwell, where should I start?
Start at the beginning. Down and Out in Paris and London is one of the greatest -- and most important -- books of all time.
imho, natch.
He's got some of the most inane quotes like "socialism's never written a song worth singing" and stuff about Jews and gays.
SWR
i cant comment on anything orwell said regarding jews and gays but regarding socialism i think he was probably just commenting on the 'left' of his day explaining away the stalinist nightmare
although I may be wrong because i haven't been into 'art in the air inc' today for my ZEN SWIRL PAST LIFE AURA REBALANCING session
Orwell is hard to read. I always get so hungry reading his writing. The same with Dostoyevsky. He is good to read when you need to put on pounds.
I would recomment starting here on Orwell.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.c....uk/
Jorwell.htm
Down and Out in Paris and London
I read this quite recently. He was very young when he wrote it, wasn't he?
Personally I am sinking my retirement money into collectable Elvis and Wizard of Oz plates.
GWPDA: Orwell is like that. So many places to start, depending on where you're coming from. For lit-crit, I'd recommend Inside the Whale, too.
Reading Orwell is never a chore. And often a delight: 'A Nice Cup of Tea' is very very wonderful.
Porky the Pig Buchanan on MSNBC still pushing the lie that "there isn't time for warrants" in defense of the chimp's spying.
JT
But there's plenty of time to fly back to DC for a midnight signing of a bill to attempt to keep a tube jammed into a breathing corpse.
I think its just a matter of time management. We should get them some Franklin planners for XMas.
i cant comment on anything orwell said regarding jews and gays but regarding socialism i think he was probably just commenting on the 'left' of his day explaining away the stalinist nightmare
So Orwell was kind of the Ralph Nader of his day. Sure the Soviet Union beat Hitler but you couldn't fight fascism unless you did it in a pure way?
decapitated would work for me--on world-wide tv...
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar
That's shocking and disgusting.
When hanging them from lamp posts would work just as well, pour encourager les autres.
Leave 'em up there, oh, about a month.
I could use a love slave.
(slaps forehead) What was I thinking? Eli's going to be staying at my apartment next week!
Orwell is hard to read. I always get so hungry reading his writing. The same with Dostoyevsky. He is good to read when you need to put on pounds.
Echidne of the snakes
I always say 'one plate of food per page'
that way one keeps their physical strength AND mental agility at top level
Or if we just killed anybody over 60 with an income of less than 200,000 a year.
I'm liking the Logan's Run idea.
After all, women aren't sexually desireable once they hit puberty...
watertiger
Unless their taking pictures of their feet in the tub of course. 
Wow. Orwell died young. I did not know that.
Too young. In my last year at Oxford, I did a kind of pilgrimage with a friend down to Sutton Courtney, where Orwell is buried. The archetypal English village: thatched cottages, vilage green, small church. He's there with Lord Asquith, the great Liberal reforming PM.
There are always flowers.
Porky continues his suckup to the chimp: against the impeachment of Bush, Porky says the chimp didn't lie to the people.
Have you seen the video of his press conference from 2004, Porky?
Personally I am sinking my retirement money into collectable Elvis and Wizard of Oz plates.
John Gillnitz
The "Franklin Mint" and that collection I have of "State Quarters" will save me!
Unless their taking pictures of their feet in the tub of course.
*happy sigh*
I have to say, I'm a little disappointed Merkin's not been around. He was bugging me for more pix of my feet.
Porky the Pig Buchanan on MSNBC still pushing the lie that "there isn't time for warrants" in defense of the chimp's spying.
JT
But there's plenty of time to fly back to DC for a midnight signing of a bill to attempt to keep a tube jammed into a breathing corpse.
I think its just a matter of time management. We should get them some Franklin planners for XMas.
Max Planck | Email | 12.24.05 - 10:33 am
Aside from the fact that the law allows them to start the wiretap so long as they get the warrant in a few days.
(slaps forehead) What was I thinking? Eli's going to be staying at my apartment next week!
I hate him.
Sure the Soviet Union beat Hitler but you couldn't fight fascism unless you did it in a pure way?
Oh, c'mon. He went to Spain looking to fight fascism, and found out that the socialists, Leninists, Stalinists, Trotskyists, and anarcho-syndicalists were all busily denouncing one another while Franco got the Luftwaffe on the phone.
And we're talking about the 30s here, which is a very very hard decade to grasp intellectually. At least, it used to be.
Hecate those are very good points (10:21).
I am very much in agreement.
So Orwell was kind of the Ralph Nader of his day. Sure the Soviet Union beat Hitler but you couldn't fight fascism unless you did it in a pure way?
SWR
er SWR, I don't think that's *exactly* what I was trying to say
but as I mentioned
my aura is sort of 'off balance' today what with
past life tinsel, ornaments and gift wrap jamming up the cosmic consciousness wavelength...
I think maybe orwell had 'issues' with stalin because even though russia defeated hitler (probably in spite of stalin) stalin just wasn't very
um
'groovy'
He's there with Lord Asquith, the great Liberal reforming PM.
HH Asquith, the guy who brought England into WWI?
Aside from the fact that the law allows them to start the wiretap so long as they get the warrant in a few days.
Yes, but even 72 hours isn't enough when you're tapping hundreds and thousands of calls. Takes a while to assemble the paperwork, y'know. Can't put 'EVERYONE' in the 'subject' field.
I think maybe orwell had 'issues' with stalin because even though russia defeated hitler (probably in spite of stalin) stalin just wasn't very
um
'groovy'
Yeah but I do think that Orwell's anti-communist leftism has a tinge of purism to it.
I'll give him credit for actually going to fight fascism in Spain but most of the people fighting fascism in Spain were Communists.
The country that beat the Nazis was the Soviet Union.
So what happens is that outside of any historical context (and a guy with a British accent like Hitchens can work this) you can drop the history and keep the anti-communism.
Orwell is just too easy and morally self-indulgent, or, rather, he appeals to the morally self-indulgent.
(slaps forehead) What was I thinking? Eli's going to be staying at my apartment next week!
I hate him.
NTodd
Fuck him, we're taking him out!
Oh, c'mon. He went to Spain looking to fight fascism, and found out that the socialists, Leninists, Stalinists, Trotskyists, and anarcho-syndicalists were all busily denouncing one another while Franco got the Luftwaffe on the phone.
one of the oddest things about the spanish civil war I've read was (this is no joke) prison run by the communists BASED ON PRINCIPLES OF CUB IST ART:
they designed a room AT ODD ANGLES where the prisoner could never really stand properly or put their feet down on a level floor
like bending a person into uncomfortable shapes
bizarre but apparently factually true
HH Asquith, the guy who brought England into WWI?
Well, that's one way of putting it. GWPDA will be along in a moment.
Also responsible for National Insurance and and old-age pensions.
Orwell was a buoy on the great sea of British leftism following WWI.
Oh, c'mon. He went to Spain looking to fight fascism, and found out that the socialists, Leninists, Stalinists, Trotskyists, and anarcho-syndicalists were all busily denouncing one another while Franco got the Luftwaffe on the phone.
I dunno. Lack of unity let the fascists win in Spain?
I doubt that. I think it had more to do with the fact that the British and Americans didn't come to the aid of the Republicans and Hitler came to the aid of the fascists.
Also responsible for National Insurance and and old-age pensions.
pseudonymous in nc | Email | 12.24.05 - 10:43 am | #
I bet old age pensions were cheap in the aftermath of the great war.
Orwell is just too easy and morally self-indulgent, or, rather, he appeals to the morally self-indulgent.
SWR
was it orwell who had the essay about being down and out and having to put up with being fed in a 'christian' mission and the sanctimonious airs of the 'charity givers?'
"Politics and the English Language" is a personal favorite.
Oh, and "Why I Write."
why is everyone talk'n about Orwell?
oh jebus, SAVE us.
was it orwell who had the essay about being down and out and having to put up with being fed in a 'christian' mission and the sanctimonious airs of the 'charity givers?'
And this kind of thing can be easily spun to bash "liberal do gooders".
He's questioning the motives of people who are doing the right thing.
And if you take it out of a context, it lets the Ayn Rand instinct flow right into the vacuum.
Orwell was a buoy on the great sea of British leftism following WWI.
Nûr al-Cubicle
that's a pretty sentence
I'll take HL Mencken over Orwell any day.
If the Brits had had the balls, they could have taught fascism a severe lesson in Republican Spain. In stead, the government cheered them on.
why is everyone talk'n about Orwell?
I'm a nasty Stalinist dragon who's trying to kill St. George.
SWR, you win this game of Leftier Than Thou. Congratulations.
SWR, you win this game of Leftier Than Thou. Congratulations.
pseudonymous in nc | Email | 12.24.05 - 10:48 am | #
But isn't that the game Orwell started? Isn't "leftier than thou" what I'm criticizing?
If the Brits had had the balls, they could have taught fascism a severe lesson in Republican Spain. In stead, the government cheered them on.
Many, many Brits had the balls. Many of them were from my home town. The government? F'n useless.
was it orwell who had the essay about being down and out and having to put up with being fed in a 'christian' mission and the sanctimonious airs of the 'charity givers?'
And this kind of thing can be easily spun to bash "liberal do gooders".
He's questioning the motives of people who are doing the right thing.
And if you take it out of a context, it lets the Ayn Rand instinct flow right into the vacuum.
SWR
huh?
i thought it just had to do with keeping one's dignity while the people with food were shoving religion down his throat
Many, many Brits had the balls. Many of them were from my home town.
Same with the USA. But most of the people who volunteered to fight in Spain were communists and Jews and after WWII were persecuted by some of St. George's minions.
the Arabs in the ME were badly let down by the imperial powers of the day.
they were promised so much yet the imperial powers failed to deliever.
you could argue the turmoil that the ME suffers from the end of WW1.
huh?
i thought it just had to do with keeping one's dignity while the people with food were shoving religion down his throat
earl flags a cab | 12.24.05 - 10:50 am | #
I'd need to see the exact passage.
Follow-Up: Vulgar Liberalism Watch
If I am more left than you
then you are on my right
and I am on your left
unless we turn and face the
mirror in a magritte painting
time to turn the computer off
best wishes to all of you for a nice holday
bye for now
The retire at 55 came from corps wanting to get rid of higher paid employees. Now its outrageous that anyone could retire at 55. Hmmm...
you could argue the turmoil that the ME suffers from the end of WW1.
Moonbootica
Indeed you could.
I'm off to the PO to see if my copy of Fisk's new book has arrived, for Christmas. He starts, bless his heart, with the Armenian Genocide....
Make me hang around even a little bit longer and I'll give you the horror story of AJ Balfour, the War Cabinet, Woodrow Wilson and Henry Ford and how it all turned out to screw the Armenians and nearly acquire Baku.
Thank You, Atrios, for finally putting the argument in terms most people can understand. Another thing that you might mention is that if unions agree to take a lower salary increase in favor of better retirement benefits, it may not really add up to much in the end. Defined benefit plans rely on what you make in salary. By keeping the salary low, employers win again.
Shit, good point. Do you have some numbers or examples to back it up? I want this to become the "meme" of choice for media sympathetic to organized labor.
Not only did Britain and America not come to the aid of Republican Spain, but Socialist France under Leon Blum didn't come to the aid of Republican Spain, throwing many otherwise moderate leftists into the Communist camp.
I appreciate 1984 -- I predicted that it would be realized in this administration (at Hesiod --- no longer extant) -- I like Orwell & thanks for that site!
But -- monks never retire -- we stay in harness & as we slow down (or can't sing on key any more or lift heavy loads or whatever) those in charge try to adapt the jobs one does to one's abilities ("From each according to his ability, to each according to his need," was our method centuries before Marx) -- when one is no longer capable of looking after oneself, we look after them -- nor do any of us have pensions (& yes, we pay taxes & don't have sex -- no wonder there are so few of us)
So, I can start working at 30, work until 55, and retire at half salary. I'll take it.
The one-sided yellow journalism of the NYC tabloids is incredible, particularly here in the bluest area of a blue state.
Only Juan Gonzalez of the Daily News told the workers' side of this strike. While there are certainly those worse off than the transit workers, it's simply idiotic to contemplate that worsening things for them will somehow improve things for everyone, or indeed anyone else.
Can I just say that I absolutely loathe Rachel Ray.
So why, for the love of the gods, can I not stop watching her?
Several years ago, my employer ended the pension plan. There was already a 401(k), and they calculated how much you'd "accrued" in your pension, then paid that into your 401(k).
Recently, an executive left the company, and in those pesky little SEC papers, it was clear the extra special big wig pension plan had NOT been closed out. This person will get thousands of dollars a month after reaching retirement age, unlike the peons.
When United screwed their retirees earlier this year, wasn't there a mention of the executive pension plan that WAS fully funded? They couldn't bother with the employees pension, but heaven forbid the corporastocracy be affected in any way. Bastards.
Companies owned by employees, by policyholders (mutual companies0 or structured as partnerships often have "responsible: defined benefit plans which deliver guarantees.
Why is it that the biggest stock companies seem to have the biggest problems with their pensions?
Why is it that they shift most of their profits overseas and don't pay taxes to the US?
They "rent' their space in the US and shift their resaponsibilities to the pension benefit guarantee corp.
Wall Street loves Bush. They screw the people because they cab get away with it.
Isn't capitalism great?
Atrios I love you but you don't live in the same country I do.
Pensions like these require 2 things: working for 1 company your whole life and trusting that that company will remain in 1 piece until you and your spouse die. AS for the "trading wage increses for pensions" argument, are these public employees underpaid? Or do politicians promise more today knowing they'll be out of office when the bill comes due? Sounds like our buddy in the White House.
I just vested in my public employee pension. It is a good deal IF I work for the state for another 25 years and retire at 60. Though the chances of this happening are slim, I would get about half my average salary until I die. The health plan is also pretty good compared to the private sector.
The trade off - I make roughly 18% less than I would doing the same job in the private sector. Also in lieu of raises for the past four years, the state has contributed 2% more to my retirement plan. If you are debating just pensions and health care government employees do have it better than mmany in the private sector. If you examine total compensation however private sector employees do at least as well.
As a New York City teacher, I'm paid well less than my suburban counterparts, and right now my pension benefits are not equal to those of the transit workers. But it would be idiotic to advocate worsening their pensions--we should make ours better. We should make working conditions better for all Americans.
How the hell do reporters get tracktion saying that folks like NYC transit workers have it too good? Will they not be satisfied until eeach and every US citizen is a Wal-Mart associate?
oops--traction
War, (as in carnage, chainsaws, shotguns) is the answer.
We are moving toward a system where once 1 or 2 jobs in a lifetime was the norm to where 20+ jobs in a lifetime is not unusual.
It's loyalty to no one / People opting out at first chance.
No cooperation, that's for suckers.
This is capitalism/civilization in it's death throwes, Kali-yuga. There is no solution other to let it run its course.
The CEOs follow this rule. Get "it" while you still can, then get out. I can't blame them when everyone else has this mentality. Enrich yourself. Who's to judge it morally wrong, when America holds no moral standards as long as anything is not "bigoted", "hateful", or "evil"? (all meaning does not follow the televised path)
Our team at netpowersoft studied what a loan seeker want from the internet.
Mean what type of firm is most suitable for him.
Which will provide you the human edited information in most relavent and organised way.
We have gone though companies who deals with loan and mortgage stuff.
We found some information about them from their websites and few by writing emails to them.
Home Equity Loan
Loanskey
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
