I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Fucking gay haters!
ok?
-
Awww, dangit! I wanted to be a BrokeBack Frist!
Can't have Christians with love in their hearts, don'tcha know?
-
Oy! This is gonna be another "race to the top" days, innit?
.
I prefer Bare Back Mountin'.
esp. when you consider the unmarried 30 year old Jesus and his gang of 12 elegible bachelors.
Jesus weeps.
I mean, who's to say Jesus wasn't a little light in the sandals?
Jesus and his gang of hot disciples.
What a concept, he said, with a Paul Lynde sneer.
Jesus wouldn't recognize any of these whackjobs.
Heterosexual sandals. Big sandals. Big, big feet.
Oh, Christianity isn't just about gay hating. It's about hating, period.
Well, the gays and their friends got Ford to back down, maybe a little pressure from them will also get Disney's attention.
Of course, this only works if the issue gets aired in the media and enough people understand what's going on.
How did Christianity get reduced to this? I don't get it.
It's simple, Atrios. Christianity's undercutting of materialism and call for self-sacrifice are anathema to tyranny. Christianity has been the single most powerful challenge to authority in the history of western civilization.
That's why any tyranny has to neuter Christianity.
But you can't do that by simply oppressing them. Outside of feudal Japan, that never worked. So you have to co-opt it. You have to offer a bogus Christianity to drain off the people you'd otherwise have to fight.
Right wingers' pseudo-Christianity ignores what Christ preached, preaches what he never preached, and cherry-picks the Old Testament for whatever helps them make a scapegoat. It's not even the whole Old Testament.
Conservative Christians aren't Christians at all. They're basically just a half-assed Hebrew Recreation Society.
They serve a vacuous materialism. They are merely the tools and cover for a nihilistic class of pampered parasites. They are no different from the people who threw the real Christians to the lions. As we all know, they don't practise their supposed morality, it's just an excuse to shit on other people.
But it's easy to say anything when you believe nothing.
.
I just did a search at yahoo news (yeah, I know, now the NSA knows I know that they know I know) on "gay." Interesting readings - especially Md news. Did the same thing at Google and found the tidbit below. It's what these types of Christians are all about. It's how they support our troops:
"Anti-gay group to protest at soldier's funeral" :
http://www.heraldtribune.com/app.../NEWS/
601210405
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10947488/
Has Google's refusal to comply with a government subpoena seeking its search records improved your opinion of the company? * 15108 responses
Yes. I'm impressed with their commitment to users' privacy.
77%
Not really. I was a fan before and still am.
9%
Not really. It's just grandstanding.
3%
No, it's worsened it. They should comply with the subpoena.
5%
Don't care. It's not like we have any real privacy anymore.
5%
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Jesus wouldn't recognize any of these whackjobs.
Yes, he would Dr. Wu and he'd call them Pharisees.
I wonder if Jesus coming to town was like ChiChi LaRue comging to town with his travelling band of hot porn stars.
Nah, some of them think they are better than Jesus. Jesus actually ate and partied with the sinners. These people think they are above it all.
Well said, GMT.
Fact is, they've lost the war against gays, and they know it. Just as Alito can't come out and say he's against abortion--they've lost that war, too. There will be battles for years, and no shortage of bigotry to overcome, but the movement towards acceptance of gays and lesbians has been amazing.
Which is precisely why they should be hit with the chair when they try to pull this kind of crap. We should fear neither them nor the chair...
THe American Fundementalist Christians are in a quandry becasue if you paid attention to the actual teachings and message of Jesus, their whole philosophy of life as right wing capitalists war mingers would be condemmed. There is nothing "Christian" about American Political Christian lifestyles. So they have to divert attention from reality and find a scapegoat to distract people from thinking about things critcally. I would say they will all go to Hell for their beliefs, but that supposes either there really is such a thing as hell and G-d and Chist his Son, or that they are secretly guilty about this duplicity and will face the hell of regret as their lives come to an end. I think neither is true. Hell is the reality they create for others to suffer through on this earth.
Thanks, pie.
Speaking of pie, I haven't even had breakfast yet. I'm FUNGRY! (as in "fuking hungry")
Bye.
.
You dirty war minger!
ProfWombat - amen.
Speaking of pie, I haven't even had breakfast yet. I'm FUNGRY! (as in "fuking hungry")
I am too, and it's because of this thread, though not pie: any discussion of gays now makes me think of soup. I don't know why.
Fortunately, I have leftover stroganoff.
But all the IRS-sanctioned Denominations hate gays, don't they?
Jesus wouldn't recognize any of these whackjobs.
Oh, yes he would. Sadducees and Pharisees. And he wouldn't be terribly happy to see them.
Ohio Christians under attack from secular 'Nazis'
http://tinyurl.com/ccl5p
Sweet Sue,
You NAILED IT!
when the religious rightards found out God was Dead, they went into politics.
bad for religion, bad for politics.
not so good for any oppressed minority either. uniformed maddness.
As we all know, they don't practise their supposed morality, it's just an excuse to shit on other people.
But it's easy to say anything when you believe nothing.
.
Grand Moff Texan
Perfect. Thanks for that wonderful post.
Jesus just left Chicago and he's bound for New Orleans.
Took a jump through Mississippi, well, muddy water turned to wine.
Then out to California through the forests and the pines.
You might not see him in person but he'll see you just the same.
Jesus just left Chicago and he's bound for New Orleans.
Took a jump through Mississippi, well, muddy water turned to wine.
Then out to California through the forests and the pines.
You might not see him in person but he'll see you just the same.
Christianity is NOT reduced to that. The problem is reasonable Christians can't get on TV even if we are will to buy the time.
How did Christianity get reduced to this?
Ooooh, I know! I know! Because so many of the mainstream religions implicitly, if not explicitly, endorse and encourage homophobia, while the ones that don't are actively marginalized!
Of course, if the mainstream Christian denominations who aren't openly endorsing and encouraging homophobia would all stand up and scream at once, they might get some notice... but we can't have that, now, can we?
If you don't open your fucking trap, your opponents are the ones that get heard.
Word GMT, I agree totally.
Good morning, moonbats!
GMT and SweetSue: Word. Fucking WORD!
Whoops -- you beat me to it, Sweet Sue.
Holy moley!
Grand Moff is on his game this morning!! He's working some Allen Ginsburg, Neal Cassady, kind of voodoo on us. Nice.
BTW, Can I use that rant later today at the hardware store? I gotta go get wood glue and they like my performance pieces down at the old Ace.
Fungry... that should be a word! Like, the state of hunger that kids have when they play with their food. Or, the weird enjoyment that freepers get spewing their anger and hatred. Or when you crave mushrooms. Or... jeez, so many possibilities...
As we all know, they don't practise their supposed morality, it's just an excuse to shit on other people.
But it's easy to say anything when you believe nothing.
Christian Nihilism?
it seems rather petty.
Fortunately, I have leftover stroganoff.
How many times a month do you make that?
(Saw your deleted comment at DKos. Ms. Howell didn't like that you said her pants were on fire? Geez, you were only trying to help avoid conflagration. Ingrate.)
Jesus wouldn't recognize any of these whackjobs.
Oh, yes he would. Sadducees and Pharisees. And he wouldn't be terribly happy to see them.
And he would say so. Then the would kill him.
Here's another photo of my dead, gay cat, btw. In this one, you can see where he shaves his legs.
.
The religious right objected especially to the fact that real Christians embraced their gay neighbors.
If that makes them "unreal" Christians, you should stop picking their pockets.
it really annoys me when the Christian right whine about a tv show (e.g. jerry springer the opera) and when asked whether they had watched it say No.
plus everytime they kick up a fuss its just free publicity.
morons.
And he would say so. Then the would kill him.
On behalf of all Jews, of course. Don't forget that part.
NTODD HAS A RECIPE FOR LOBBYISTS,
HE'S MAKEING SUM RECIPES FOR GRAFT WITH A BOWL FULL OF JACK STOKINOFF"S MONIES
someone had to get you with a Merkinisn, you can't do it 24/7...
How many times a month do you make that?
More often than I should. It's my comfort food.
(Saw your deleted comment at DKos. Ms. Howell didn't like that you said her pants were on fire? Geez, you were only trying to help avoid conflagration. Ingrate.)
Holy shit, I didn't know it was deleted. Jesus fucking Christ humping an ombudsman's leg. Such a delicate flower.
I'm sorry you didn't get the memo. That's now to be referred to always as Christianity™ . It's new!
the language used against homosexuals in America is frightently simliar to what language Nazi Germany used against the Jews.
where does this hate stem from?
Here's another photo of my dead, gay cat, btw. In this one, you can see where he shaves his legs.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian
Awwwww -- makes me think of our late, lamented Riley, who was not gay, but a dog at heart.
I would just add one more element to Grand Moff Texan's brilliant post:
the day the snake oil salesmen invented the gospel of prosperity in the middle of the 20th century.
the language used against homosexuals in America is frightently simliar to what language Nazi Germany used against the Jews.
And homosexuals. They started with the homosexuals.
Jesus just left Chicago
Tres Hombres is one fucking good album.
Moonbootica, Venusberg,
Lenny Bruce (you might have to look him up) said that it was because everyone needs someone to hate to make our own pitiful lives a little less meaningless. I do not disagree.
Jeff has a Heathers cat?
In Medieval times the King and the Church worked together to shame the masses into oppression. It didn't make any difference if they spoke the truth. The laws of the land became what the King and Church decided them to be.
Similarities?
Seriously, if you think the MSM is in love with homosexuality, just remind yourself of the exchange between Tweety and Imus about Brokeback mnt. It's in to gay bash if you're a powerful strapping white male.
Or, have a real close look at the types of gay characters on tv. We always appear with some extra special ability (heightened funny bone, super fashion sense, ultra cooking abilities, etc.) to make up for our homosexuality. It pisses me off to no end. It's the same as having one token black character into gangster rap on a show.
Here's another photo of my dead, gay cat
Did he play football? Do you love your dead, gay cat?
The New Testament are the holy scriptures moved us out from the fringes of Jewish sectarianism. The four Gospels and their presentation have nothing to say on the matter of homosexuality. Impossible to conceive of Jesus of Nazareth as being a gay basher. Peter, James, John...in the catholic epistles have nothing to say about homosexuality. It simply wasn't a concern of theirs.
It was Pauline Christianity all along. This interloper, whose only claimed interaction with Christ was the posthumous appearance on the Road to Damascus, is the only voice raised in censure against homosexuality. Needless to say, Catholicism follows a generally Petrine and Johannie tack...while the Protestant Reformation brought a SAVAGE Paulinity to the forefront of Christianity. It is the virulent strain that settled this country in the form of the Puritans. It never went away.
...and he's bound for New Orleans.
it really annoys me when the Christian right whine about a tv show (e.g. jerry springer the opera) and when asked whether they had watched it say No.
Yes, and the same thing happened with wingers and Fahrenheit 911.
Jesus has left the building.
I accepted him "into my heart" as my "personal Savior" at age 12, three years after my father was killed. I had asked the heavens if my life would always be so painful and if Jesus was real, would he please show himself. Had an ecstatic experience. He became my secret and dearest friend. THEN i went to church and found, even in my teens, some of the most loving AND some of the most judgemental, harsh people i've ever known. Cherry on the top was when my saintly, gay brother came 'out' and I watched his ex-communication experience in accordance with the good book.
So, Jesus, my brother and I left the building together.
I have found some great evidence of the fusion of the Jewish Messiah, Christian Savior and Greek return of the SUN schools of thought through David Fideler's work as well as Thomas Cahill's writings. ( Out of the many who really do understand this stuff.)
Sure do wish our super educated America public would do some basic research.
Mr.Murder: Jeff has a Heathers cat?
I love my dead, gay cat.
.
As a person with "the Gay", what bugs me is the assumption of some people of faith that belief in a partiular God imbues them with the right to play Him.
Hate and anger motivates much better than love (if you're a certain kind of xtian). People generally aren't motivated to run to the poles with love in their hearts. Rubes.
So fuck the love...let's see more hate!
Jesus is in the back seat with Hitler, discussing the recruiting sergeant.
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"...Grand Moff Texan's brilliant post..."
I thought so too. Enough to go visit his blog.
n8nyc,
Why stop there? There are many many examples of stereotypes that are not only promoted by the white establishment, they are also affirmed by the actions of the minority being pilloried. I have never understood this one at all.
The greatest film ever made about the life of Christ was written and directed by a gay athiest.
Teh funny upstairs.
We seem to have a plague of owls.
David, you mean Jethith ChristhT Super Star, don't you?
Curly's got that "inside/outside" fever, today. I let him out, he wants right back in. I let him in, he wants right back out. Crazy furball.
.
Mel Gibson's a gay atheist? No wonder he's suing the blogger.
It is a strange thing. I've never understoond what is gained by the exlpoitation myself. I can only figure that it causes a contrast that lets the homogenous feel... well homogenous since there aren't people like that in their lives (because there aren't really many people like that anywhere).
Citizen Seattle,
Wonderful post. Jesus was a liberal. The fundies have missed the entire message - Love.
As Christians, they have embraced their total depravity.
Good Lord. We can't have a TV show that shows gay people to be good people deserving of respect and trust, because that would cut into the fund raising of right wackos who make lots of money out of demonizing gays. Fuck em'. If anyone deserves to be burned at the stake, it's those evil bastards who are using religion to divide America.
I love my dead gay son!
Tres Hombres is one fucking good album.
You should have been there for the band's tour for the album 32 years ago...
Seattle and and Halfdan, Jesus loves your brother and sons too. He always did. It is unfortunate that the perversion of the logos causes so much pain.
JJR, actually modern (liberal) academic interpretations of St. Paul say he was talking not about "man-man love" or 'woman-woman-love", but the kind of sodomist of the ancient Greek nature that was a "Man-on-boy" exploitive/domination nature. He was condemning something more like the recent Cathoic Priest child molestation type of relationship. Who wouldn't.
Good Lord. We can't have a TV show that shows gay people to be good people deserving of respect and trust, because that would cut into the fund raising of right wackos who make lots of money out of demonizing gays. Fuck em'. If anyone deserves to be burned at the stake, it's those evil bastards who are using religion to divide America.
Mark B.
yeah and tax exempt too
You are right Bad Art, but of course, we both know that "modern liberal interpretations" aren't widely disseminated down at the local Baptist, Methodist, and yes, even Catholic churches.
Romans and Corinthians inspires the gay bashing of modern Amerikan Christians, despite whatever Paul's intentions were.
n8nyc: we don't disagree; there's still a lot of work to do. But the change from, say, my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s has been astonishing. Socarides and the DSM were still defining homosexuality as a disease to be treated back then. Any gay person came out at risk of being fired. Gay marriage, even in a single state, much less whole countries of the European Union, would have been inconceivable.
Which is why, when Tweety says anything about Michael Savage other than cooking directions, he should be hit with the chair.
Since when does the religious right's support for a movie determine if it'll succeed or fail? Brokeback Mountain obviously didn't get any support from the Bible-humpers and that's breaking box office records from coast to coast and is racking up awards.
These cocksuckers have 'way too much power. They're trying to set policy over prescription cancer drugs, education, the judiciary and even government. And I don't even know any of these assholes. Where do they cluster, in the woodwork of churches like silverfish?
GMT --
Very well put -- I join with the others in so acknowledging
DAVEtm --
Actually, the scandal about the Episcopal Church being gay friendly leading to a split in the USA as well as the World Wide Anglican Communion is all over the news if you look for it
JJR --
I'm not sure that it is quite that neat, but it certainly is true that those who preach inclusion refer to the Gospels & those who don't, rely on St Paul (actually a misunderstanding of what Paul is getting at, IMHO) & Leviticus (omitting the command to stone gays -- even the fundies draw the line at too much literalism, I guess)
Brokeback won't be #1 this weekend - the new film Underworld - Evolution will be around $25 million, and with it being a weekend, a different dynamic will come into play. Expect Brokeback to be around 5th (2-5 will be fairly close) doing around $7.5 million. It will end up over $100 million domestically.
I have access to daily box office figures. There is a huge story going on week after week that the media really are not yet covering - the success of the film in Bible belt America. Yesterday was the most interesting day yet. An indy evangelical company made a film about a missionary in South America - End of the Spear (ironically starring Chad Allen, an out gay actor). It is grossing very well in the South and elsewhere.
Both Brokeback and Spear opened yesterday in a number of large megaplexes in places like Fayetteville Arkansas and Columbia SC - and were the two largest grossers in some of the theatres, both with very good figures. The dynamic of having these two films both do well, side by side, overlapping audiences in the popcorn lines, must be fascinating.
As for the reality show - Disney might sell it to Logo (the new gay cable network), but they won't broadcast it - too embarassing, plus the winner will already be known. But this story will just help Brokeback will win the best picture Oscar, not that there is much doubt about that now.
OOPs -- forgot to mention
David Ehrenstein -- Pasolini's Matthew is indeed regarded as the best film version of the life of Christ -- you left out that he was a communist (Pasolini, that is -- well, maybe Jesus, too)
"How did Christiantiy get reduced to this?" Jeez, I'm just happy they no longer own slaves, are out lynching blacks, burning witches, or claiming rule by divine right.
Oh, wait. They're working their way back to that last one.
But all the IRS-sanctioned Denominations hate gays, don't they?
kelley b.
I knew a Dominionist once. She looked great in her leather corset, holding a whip. Oh, wait, that was a Dominatrix. Never mind.
Both Brokeback and Spear opened yesterday in a number of large megaplexes in places like Fayetteville Arkansas and Columbia SC - and were the two largest grossers in some of the theatres, both with very good figures. The dynamic of having these two films both do well, side by side, overlapping audiences in the popcorn lines, must be fascinating.
Jeeze, the next thing you know, we'll find out that the "culture war" is just a myth exploited to keep gullible voters occupied while the political establishment raids the treasury for the benefit of themselves and their corporate masters.
Nah, never mind. Couldn't happen.
Actually, there's a sense in which hating gays is _the_ most central virtue in Christianity. The context of the famous anti-gay prooftext in Romans 1 is Romans 2. Paul is getting around to making the point that unless they're in denial of God, people naturally and instinctively know what God requires of them - they are "a law unto themselves". Thus the highly codified Jewish law is unnecessary. Gay sex and gay lust are Paul's primary examples, ahead even of murder, of things that he thinks Christians should know instinctively to be sinful. Now I happen to think he was a self-loathing closet case who was full of shit on this issue. But Christians aren't so free to disagree, because if Paul was so spectacularly wrong on this key issue, it puts his whole theology, on which Christianity-as-we-know-it is squarely based) into doubt. Maybe his instincts and those of other "God-fearing" people aren't so good. Maybe we do need a detailed law code and Paul was wrong to break away from Judaism.
Mark B.--
I suppose this is a dead thread, but the clever rhetorical power of Paul's argument in Romans is his description of "the pagans" (which sounds like a description of Nero's court & that may well be the intention) which leads up to, "and you are no better than they are."
Which is a part the fundies don't read (of course).
I attended a Roman Catholic parish in Rochester, NY that I would call 'cutting edge liberal'--at lest as far as Catholism goes. They had a gay & lesbian support group, which really was about as inclusive as they could get without just outright okaying homosexuality.
Even when the vatican decreed that there would be no more discussion of women entering the priesthood, our clergy did continue to discuss it openly, at the pulpit.
People came from miles and miles, many communities away to attend this church.
I think the interesting thing is that this church is in downtown Rochester, where there is virtually no residential area. They only way this parish could survive was to offer something to entice people to come from other areas to attend. And that enticement: treating people with love, compassion, dignity, equality, acceptance and fairness. Finding ways to unite instead of divide, to offer redemption instead of damnation.
Lenny Bruce (look him up) gave us
The Easter It Yourself Kit:
Take two boards
Three Nails
and a Jew
I'd much rather have gay folks next door to me than bible-thumping haters.
I like the one quote on BartCop yesterday. One dude says "Anytime someone tells me they're a Christian, I imagine them with horns and a tail!"
On another note:
I woke up this morning, put the TV on, fell back to sleep.
Woke up and Al Gore is on CSpan.
I said "Oh, the last five years have been a bad dream. There's the president."
Then I realized the sad, sick reality.
"Even when the vatican decreed that there would be no more discussion of women entering the priesthood, our clergy did continue to discuss it openly, at the pulpit."
"if we don't talk about it, it will go away!"
How fucking stupid ARE those people?
Like everyone is going to shut up because they say so.
Terry C:"I'd much rather have gay folks next door to me than bible-thumping haters."
That's big of you, Terry. We homos are so touched.
Believe me, as a Catholic who is a Democratic on the basis of Catholic teachings about social justice, I am deeply offended by the wackos who have hijacked Christianity for their selfish, angry, intolerant agenda. Not unlike what the Baathists have done to Islam.
Legislation may not change the heart, but it will restrain the heartless.
anyone know who spoke those words (or ones similar to them)?
Reduced to this? What makes you think this is some new development for the Love Thy Neighbour crowd? The focus should be on the craven lickspittles at Disney, for caving in.
C'mon Atrios. How did Christianity get reduced to this? This is the same outfit that found religious justification for burning and drowning women in Salem, for chattel slavery, for plundering the Middle East (several times), for massacring the indigenous populations of America (and everywhere else), for unrelenting resistance to scientific progress, and for the droit de seigneur and other, less creative, ways to subjugate women.
And you think they've sunk to some new low because they get a TV show cancelled? They're just warming up.
http://
www.christianalliance.org...nd_Lesbians.htm
Lutton:
Would that be Corpus Christi (now Spiritus Christi)?
A very interesting (and popular) church. Rome broke with them a few years back after years of tension over their blessings of gay marriages and the fact that they had a woman perform the Communion ceremony. Now they still identify as Catholic (although making it clear that they have broken with Rome), and have officially ordained that same woman...
I agree with the larger point that the media consistently portrays the rantings of superstitious bigots and their corporate overlords as the "Christian perspective," and that this is annoying. However, Disney didn't pull this because they were afraid of offending "Christian morals" as an abstract; they did it because they were afraid of pissing off a highly organized right-wing political machine that could make economic trouble for them. Make no mistake about what Dobson's family bullshit group and the Southern Baptist Convention are... Christian belief has little or nothing to do with their agenda or their tactics. Hatemongering, division, financial gain, and continued political domination has EVERYthing to do with it.
I'm aware of hate driven Christians (Falwell, Dobson, etc.), Muslims (Osama and the like), and Jews (Likud party). But to make a leap and say that Christianity itself is hateful? Are you not unfair to those who strive to be loving, like Mother Theresa? I am not Christian, but I ask that you pay attention to what you say. Don't stoop to the level of the Bush Republicans and the Dobson Christians or the Osama Muslims to make your point.
And by the hateful language you all are using, can you place yourselves into the 'loving' catagory?
It's just marketing. They didn't want fundies pissed off when they released Narnia. Disney's happy to take anyone's money.
aye!
If those who truly follow Jesus' preachings of love and acceptance don't want to be lumped in with those who are only using that religion for their own personal gains, then they need to clean house and oust those who are usurping their supposed benign beliefs. Much as osama has hijacked islam, so too is bush and his ilk hijacking christianity. Btw - I am neither christian nor muslim. Both are too patriarcal and filled with violaence to be of any use to me.
Come on, Don't be silly. With all those Unwed soon to abort welfare queens out there. Of course we have lots and lots of people to hate. Black people, brown peeople, gays, woman. There are plenty of people to demonize because by demonizing them we don't have to think about our sorry lives. We can blame all those bad people instead of ourselves. Hate is the new black.
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