I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Is switchgrass icky?
tadaAAAAAA!
Third?
Saletan's a boogerhead.
I'm too headachy to come up with more than that.
Check out a blog we link on our "News Blogs" page, Abortion Clinic Days.
A boogerhead is pretty icky.
IMPEACH BUSH
Having Saletan use you to support his arguments is icky.
Figging.
Icky?
"Republicans" is just a theory...
I'd have to say most medical procedures occuring anywhere in the "south end" are pretty icky.
If there was a Simpsons episode on abortions. miscarriages and D&Cs , would it be called "Icky and Scratchy"?
yeah ,icky, not, whatever- who's the babe on the right?
also try
Susie Bright
Wow. I believe that I have delivered that exact "abortion is good" rant on several occasions! Great minds traveling in the same direction.
Iraqmire is icky, too.
who's the babe on the right?
That's Edward R. Murrow
Saletan's a boogerhead.
I'm too headachy to come up with more than that
I think it's enough: Accurate, Brief, and Clear. ABC.
If there was a Simpsons episode on abortions. miscarriages and D&Cs , would it be called "Icky and Scratchy"?
spinoza
Actually, one episode briefly mentioned a Krusty Home Pregnancy Test with a disclaimer "May Cause Birth Defects".
hecate,
yes, I'd thought I'd heard it before.
yeah ,icky, not, whatever- who's the babe on the right?
Lil' Liberal Girl there ain't icky, even if I STILL get nervous looking at her.
"Icky"?
"Icky"?
We're talking about people's lives and the word is "icky"?
Wow. I believe that I have delivered that exact "abortion is good" rant on several occasions! Great minds traveling in the same direction.
Hecate-I thought of you when I read it. But you are a better writer. A Struck & White kind of wiccan.
We're talking about people's lives and the word is "icky"?
That's those deep intellectual wingnut arguements for you.
That's Edward R. Murrow
spinoza
really, well he's smokin'
A-fucking-men, Katha.
Hello, Hello anybody there? Does this thing work?
Think we can get George Deutsch at NASA to put out a memo on this icky thing being about religion, not science?
Saletan using Atrios' comments out of context ees "Eecky".
No to mention thees: "Nobody else seems to talk this way, so let me be the one to say it: Legal abortion is a good thing, and not just because it prevents illegal operations."
Nobody talks thees way? Where the fuck have joo been, wanker?
so.
And yet, my anger at holding this conversation, hearing these arguments, clicking thru these statements in the year 2006 is absolutely overwhelming.
The last paragraph is beautiful. And I believe life begins at conception. Hell, before conception.
Life is a big concept and encompasses a lot.
For those of us without moral certainty on the status of a fetus, an abortion is always regretable.
its a personal choice, but since I can't say for sure whether a fetus is a human life or not, I would prefer the decision were never made to terminate a pregnancy.
I'm too headachy to come up with more than that.
watertiger
Yeah, what the fuck is going on? I usually love this kind of weather, but right now I feel like jumping off the roof.
atrios had a lot of words stored up!
Captain first to flee sunk ferry
I would hunt this clown down and get to bin Laden later.
Bloggers are icky.
Bloggers are icky.
Lots of so-called icky stuff out there. Plastic surgery is icky. Penile implants: icky. Pap smears : icky. Chemotherapy: icky. Pierced tongues, nipples, and penises: kinda icky in my opinion. Baby poop: icky. Baby spit-up: icky. SUVs: icky. Killing wild animans for sport: icky. McMansions: definitely icky.
Do we run around announcing that all of these things should be "safe, legal, and rare"? I don't think so.
Reptiles are Icke.
Abortion. Oh, that's a paddlin'.
For those of us without moral certainty on the status of a fetus, an abortion is always regretable.
Christ, I'm a frickin' guy -
-wait a minute- *checks*
-yeah, a frickin' GUY and I know it's a damn tough decision that should be left to the person responsible for carrying/not carrying the whatever you want to call it. Is that so hard to understand?
Killing wild animans for sport: icky. McMansions: definitely icky.
Hecate Malificent
I know "animans" is a typo, but I nominate it for the replacement and/or adjunct to "manimal."
I'd outlaw fertility drugs before abortion, at least which ever one it is that creates those tragic human litters that Katie Couric likes to get her picture took with.
Before Dennis Miller went nuts, he had a good take on abortion: One cock=no vote.
Abortion. Oh, that's a paddlin'.
Dribnif
Doing the naughty without a ring on your finger. You'd better believe that's a paddlin'.
Is Abortion Icky? I think that expresses rather well how lots of people feel about abortion: They may not find it immoral or want to see it made illegal, but it disturbs them. It just seems like a bad thing. ("Icky" is an interesting word choice too—that messy female body!).
Oh, si, Atrios' use of thees word een a tongue-een-cheek way, ees says so much...
Lord Saletan, we salute joo, our half inflated dark lord.
so.
those tragic human litters that Katie Couric likes to get her picture took with
My bet is they're mostly Mormon.
Mormons breed like frickin' rabbits. (And their sons all have this weird pasty doughy yet thin look to them.)
In fact, that whole moist, sticky female body, that goes around leaking blood and milk and vaginal fluid and babies and orgasms and Goddess knows what: totally icky according to Aquinas and his buds. Not nearly as "governable" as a male body.
this guy is icky http://www.bushisantichrist.com/ - abortion is just a difficult choice
Captain first to flee sunk ferry
Pussy Captains are icky.
Although, to be fair, the saying is "women and children first...to drown."
i drive by a planned parenthood clinic every day. you know who is out there marching up and down holding the cross over their heads?
a bunch of old men that's who.
men who have never ever been pregnant, have never known what it's like, and never will.
protest is a wonderful thing, very american. protest all you want.
but having never been in my shoes, don't make moral judgments for me.
Getting an abortion in the Haloscan canoe. That's a major paddlin'.
I'd outlaw sex.
Given what happened in the Twenties during Prohibition, just imagine the wild orgies that would ensue.
Notice that whatever the "culture of life" crowd touches turns to bloody brutality.
Hecate - you had me at 'moist'.
men having any say so at all over a woman's body is icky.
just like my grammar and spelling and sentence structure.
icky.
My bet is they're mostly Mormon.
Mormons breed like frickin' rabbits
Having been raised Catholic, I can't judge the Mormons. I have a good friend who's a Mormon, and I can honestly say I've never met a Mormon who wasn't very nice.
But he did take me to the Mormon I-Max movie in Salt Lake, that was weird, when the movie was over we were the only ones who weren't crying.
And yet, my anger at holding this conversation, hearing these arguments, clicking thru these statements in the year 2006 is absolutely overwhelming.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar
==
I absolutely agree with you on this. Why should we be obligated to convince people who will not be convinced. Get over it, primitives. We had the argument, it got settled. Catch up before you shoot off your big mouths.
I'd outlaw sex.
Given what happened in the Twenties during Prohibition, just imagine the wild orgies that would ensue.
Cool! Then I'd finally get laid...
Outrage is a word that is supposed to describe the upper limits of credulity. Hell we passed outrageous so long ago it seems a distant memory. Every day we are treated to the decline of our country and culture at the hands of these assholes. Honestly, is there a word beyond outrage that works. We could do modiers I suppose: Incredible outrage is strong - but nearly strong enough for these fools.
Basically, anything that could be shown on Discovery Health network is icky.
Except brain surgery. That's like a McDonald's commercial for me.
.
Mormons breed like frickin' rabbits
They eat their own poop, too.
Given what happened in the Twenties during Prohibition, just imagine the wild orgies that would ensue.
Cool! Then I'd finally get laid...
Well, it would add new meaning to an Feds called The Untouchables
Not outrage but blind rage, DWD.
Mormons breed like frickin' rabbits. (And their sons all have this weird pasty doughy yet thin look to them.)
Pere Ubu
To be fair (and god knows I'm all about being fair), my daughter saw a hot Morman proselytizing the other day. It really pissed her off. She hates wastefulness.
To be fair (and god knows I'm all about being fair), my daughter saw a hot Morman proselytizing the other day. It really pissed her off. She hates wastefulness.
Marcia Brady
She shoulda oughta gone for it...maybe brought one over to our side.
Just so we are clear, Saletan refers to a word used satirically, or tongue in cheek, then says: "yes, thees ees what the peeples theenk" then makes passive-voice Freudian tsk-tsk sounds at the usage, after eet was taken out of context.
wankerrr.
so.
Not nearly as "governable" as a male body. -Hecate Malificent
That's right, nobody can stick it to ya like The Man.
Hi everyone. Is this thread supposed to be hush-hush and on the q.t.?
I have a good friend who's a Mormon, and I can honestly say I've never met a Mormon who wasn't very nice.
Well, I do have to admit Mormons are, indeed, generally nice people. Pretty much introverted religiously; you probably are more likely to get prostletyzed by a regular Protestant than a Mormon. (Unless you give some evidence of being a backslid Mormon yourself, in which case the gloves seem to come off.)
But they still reproduce in huge batches and their male offspring still have that weird pasty Mid-Western gape-mouthed look to them.
Maybe we can get some of the Muslim fundies upset with CartoonAllah to make a pile of shit in the shape of Brigham Young, and then have the fundies on both sides wipe each other out.
"Hot Mormon" would be pretty cool name for a punk band.
Wasn't Saletan Lieberman's biggest booster in the 04 primaries?
Rage. Agreed but with assholes like the Senate Democrats leading the way - well, I guess we deserve what we get for not rioting in December of 2000
And yet, my anger at holding this conversation, hearing these arguments, clicking thru these statements in the year 2006 is absolutely overwhelming.
Absolutely. I said the same the during the March for Women's lives in 2004: it was great to have my grown son marching by my side along w/ his lovely wife. And, yet, I'd have given quite a bit for it not to have been necessary. Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation?
She shoulda oughta gone for it...maybe brought one over to our side.
.
No, then MB's daughter would have had to given up her career, to bring many more little mormons into the world.
lewis black put it best:
"30 years later I can believe we still have to raise money for this shit."
ICUs are icky. Delivery rooms are icky. A throat culture is icky, managing a ventilated patient is icky, insering pins into a broken bone is uber icky, emptying a bedpan is icky.
Medical procedures are not clean, they are icky. The squeamish need not apply.
If you don't like it, DON'T LOOK.
rage--which brings up once again the image of pitchforks and torches.
I guess we deserve what we get for not rioting in December of 2000
It's never too late for us to go Ukranian on their asses.
Like Hecate and Mena, I am stunned that this discussion is still going on.
To the allegedly religious whack jobs who disagree, I suggest they just pray for the soul of the woman who has to make that decision. That's about all they are entitled to do.
Fuckin' morons.
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation? ~ Hecate Malificent
Unfortunately, si.
so.
Just for once I'd like to have a debate on the ickiness of aborting a four-week old embryo--1/10th of an inch long and closely resembling a booger.
She shoulda oughta gone for it...maybe brought one over to our side.
DemByDefault
Well, she is only 14. But she has a connoisseur's eye.
"30 years later I can believe we still have to raise money for this shit."
NARAL can.
Lewis Black for the Senate. I'd love to see him go apeshit on Chambliss or Cornyn.
He hasn't on TDS in a hundred years...is he touring, or did he move on?
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation?
It does seem as if everyone forgets over the course of about thirty years or so.
People have forgotten about Nixon, people have forgotten about the reproductive enslavement of women.
Maybe that's the lesson of history.
Too few people ever learn the lessons of history.
lewis black put it best:
"30 years later I can believe we still have to raise money for this shit."
I do love Lewis Black.
So abortion has added emphasis to our social and moral values that were either not present or ignored. It elevated our conscience to the plight of women and decisions they have to face alone and live with that their male counterpart does not acknowledge or deal with.
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
Meaning of course that the debate would be on the terms of the pro-choicer and not always on the terms of the wuss.
"30 years later I can believe we still have to raise money for this shit."
In a way it makes me depressed to read stuff from the 60's and early 70's.
What the fuck happened to that sense of political potential? Why ARE we re-hashing shit that should have been settled decades ago like abortion and gay rights and voting rights and illegal wars?
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation? ~ Hecate Malificent
++++++++++++++++++++
Unfortunately, si.
so.
¡El Gato Negro! |- 4:56 pm
=======
more often even than that...every five years, approximately...
It's never too late for us to go Ukranian on their asses.
The window of accountability has been boarded over.
er, that should've been "can't believe"
ICUs are icky. Delivery rooms are icky. A throat culture is icky, managing a ventilated patient is icky, insering pins into a broken bone is uber icky, emptying a bedpan is icky.
Medical procedures are not clean, they are icky. The squeamish need not apply.
To make it ickier, nurses put adhesive tape everywhere, so if you are ever under their care in a hospital, it will take weeks before you finally wash off the sticky adhesive black marks off. (you wash one off and another will show up elsewhere the next day)
Well, she is only 14. But she has a connoisseur's eye.
oops-Sorry Marcia Marcia Marcia
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation? ~ Hecate Malificent
Actually, I think before Bush is done we're going to have to re-fight a lot of other battles people think are settled and won.
Mine safety, fercrissake!
I don't get why the fundies seem to tie everything to abortion.
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation?
Yes.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
1/10th of an inch long and closely resembling a booger
Are you talking about wingnut genetalia again?
No, then MB's daughter would have had to given up her career, to bring many more little mormons into the world.
doug, *strange*
I'm not sure my little (5'9") Wicca would fit in so well. She would be shunned instead of paddeled in short order.
next we'll be fighting over whether or not women should be able to vote.
Too few people ever learn the lessons of history.
Seems to me Satayana warned us about that.
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
Push this issue, and you'll scare the crap out of the red staters. Newt Gingrich is the first example of this that comes to mind for me.
It's never too late for us to go Ukranian on their asses.
==
Unfortunately Hecate, at some point it certainly could be. I sure don't want to think we've passed that point.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
and let us strangle the last DinoCrat with the entrails of the last fundie preacher!!
i can't quite put it into words but how will one woman's abortion effect a fundie's life personally?
why are they throwing hissy fits over something that is clearly not their business.
Pere Ubu:
so.
next we'll be fighting over whether or not women should be able to vote.
I thought we'd settled that: no!
Nicely put, Diane
K&Y -- Susie Bright is brill
We've been through this so many times -- OK --- I agree w/ Lewis Black
All the statistics show that outlkawing the proceedure increases the numbers of abortions -- I've posted aboit it time & again -- BECAUSE it is not about "saving babies" but about the overall wqorld view of preserving patriarchy
And I have to go to church (Vespers)
Later bats
Hi everyone. Is this thread supposed to be hush-hush and on the q.t.?
Dr. smarty jones, pirate
i guess this was too obscure a reference.
I don't get why the fundies seem to tie everything to abortion.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 4:59 pm | #
and yet they:
believe and agree with the death penalty...
want to keep brain dead people alive, instead of letting them die decently...
and start unnecessary wars where thousands are killed and maimed...
hypocrisy.
it will take weeks before you finally wash off the sticky adhesive black marks off. (you wash one off and another will show up elsewhere the next day)
doug, *strange*
And if you take the "st" off of "sticky" it becomes, well, icky.
Life is one big miraculous icky, sticky web.
several times in my own country our home grown fundies keep trying to make abortion into a political matter.
not that they succeed.
i can't quite put it into words but how will one woman's abortion effect a fundie's life personally?
'cause it's the CULTURE OF LIIIIIIIIFFE! and they're oh so concerned about the taking of a cute lil' innocent life.
Unless, of course, it's Iraqi.
Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
Fix the fact that 30% of the US population regards sexual penetration as an act of ultimate domination, to be triumphally enjoyed by the male and experienced as abject humiliation by the female?
Why do you think misogyny and homophobia go hand in hand? It's all about penetration.
We are going to need a ton of shrinks.
Blogger is being really odd today. Bad Blogger!
Hi everyone. Is this thread supposed to be hush-hush and on the q.t.?
Dr. smarty jones, pirate
i guess this was too obscure a reference.
You will please to explain!
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
I may be mistaken, but I believe that a large percentages of abortions are performed on married women. So while I agree that, for example, vigorously enforcing child support laws, would help prevent abortions, I'm not sure it would eliminate them. Just as fire safety measures could reduce plastic surgery operations but certainly wouldn't eliminate them. And, why should we want to eliminate either?
next we'll be fighting over whether or not women should be able to vote.
I thought we'd settled that: no!
NTodd, Land Shark
But I was going to vote for NTodd as the hottest land shark in the blogosphere. Oh, well...maybe I can get some man to do it for me.
I don't get why the fundies seem to tie everything to abortion.
Moonbootica
It works like this, baby girl - they have that hammered into their heads week after week after week by their preachers. They hook it all together - abortion, teh gay, intellectuals, all the way up to teh gay, homosexual intellectual Jews who perform abortions on white girls and the white race is dying out.
That's how it goes in a lot of those fundie churches.
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
Half Fast Skier
Not necessarily. What about the woman trapped in a marriage with an abusive husband and more kids than she can manage?
What about a woman with a decent husband with more kids than she can manage?
What about a woman who simply cannot bear and raise a child right now for any reason?
In this culture, it's the woman who has to bear the child, and usually has to raise it.
But I was going to vote for NTodd as the hottest land shark in the blogosphere. Oh, well...maybe I can get some man to do it for me.
Honey, your intention has been noted. Now get back to the kitchen and fix me a sandwich...
I looked at Lynn Swann's website today: He's all about the Culture of Life, with Tweety's brother by his side.
Hi everyone. Is this thread supposed to be hush-hush and on the q.t.?
Dr. smarty jones, pirate
i guess this was too obscure a reference.
You will please to explain!
LA Confidential.
I'm not sure my little (5'9") Wicca would fit in so well. She would be shunned instead of paddeled in short order.
Marcia Brady ∞, which proves to me that they are unredeemably stupid. You showed us a picture of her sometime ago, and I still remember how beautiful she is. If she is in any way as beautiful inside, then she's a goddess.
"sciencey" or science-like?
The fair and balanced debate continues.
LA Confidential.
Thats a great movie!! To Netflix....
Betty Friedan passed away and yet Kevin Federline is allowed to walk the Earth unencumbered by the chains of death. What a world!
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp.
They do not want to eliminate abortion, they want to reinforce the hierachical structure of society. They don't care about the fetus, they care that a woman may have sex outside marriage, may ENJOY it (I know, shocking though that is), and may be able to make a decision that does not involve a husband or father.
Women having enjoyable sex scares the bejeebus out of them.
I am not helping with the general mood around here, am I?
Sorry, while this day has been pleasant there is the nagging cesspool always waiting for the unsuspecting thinker. Instead of some crazy snake handling fundies: it has gone mainstream; supported in the media and by the government.
Sometimes I just wish I could wake up from this bad dream. Nothing is sacred to them except telling other people what to do. They do not actually believe this stuff, they just pontificate to ease their own sin. It is a sad situation brought about by the indifference of Americans and the complete victory of money over reason.
Shit.
the fundies must realise that banning abortion won't stop 'em happening.
the rich won't give shit, they will just send their daughters to foregin clinics.
and the less well off will be forced to turn to desperate measures.
all they are doing is causing more deaths.
fucking tossers!
Betty Friedan passed away and yet Kevin Federline is allowed to walk the Earth unencumbered by the chains of death. What a world!
Monica_A, One Bad Motherf***er
Monica_A, I officially love you. That gave me the first real belly laugh of the day.
a lot of it is control as well. they want to be able to control women.
Betty Friedan passed away and yet Kevin Federline is allowed to walk the Earth unencumbered by the chains of death. What a world!
But he does have to lug around the chains of Britany. Some things are worse than death.
.
"Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death."
Half Fast Skier
Not necessarily. What about the woman trapped in a marriage with an abusive husband and more kids than she can manage?
What about a woman with a decent husband with more kids than she can manage?
What about a woman who simply cannot bear and raise a child right now for any reason?
In this culture, it's the woman who has to bear the child, and usually has to raise it.
Diane, there's nothing wrong with the basic concept that Half Fast Skier came up with. It just needs to be tuned better to reflect the real responsibilities, and needs of women, children, and the family.
Here is the hush-hush on the q.t reference:
(from today's NYT on Scooter)
In his opinion, Judge Tatel said that Mr. Fleischer said that Mr. Libby had told him that Ms. Wilson sent had her husband on a trip to Africa to examine intelligence reports indicating that Iraq had sought to buy uranium ore from Niger.
Judge Tatel wrote that Mr. Fleischer had described the lunch to prosecutors as having been "kind of weird" and had noted that Mr. Libby typically "operated in a very closed-lip fashion." Judge Tatel added: "Fleischer recalled that Libby 'added something along the lines of, you know, this is hush hush, nobody knows about this. This is on the q.t.' "
i've said this time and again but i think before a Fundie opens their trap they should watch Vera Drake.
et Kevin Federline is allowed to walk the Earth unencumbered by the chains of death. What a world!
Seems the Fundies have their knickers in a twist because Britnee "We should all just be quiet and do what the prezinninit says" Spears is going to be on will and grace.
Tucker Carlson should've been kicked out of the club for sitting there with a straight face.
And you don't have to rub it in, I'm already embarrassed to admit I know who Kevin Federline is.
Now get back to the kitchen and fix me a sandwich...
NTodd, Land Shark
I got your sandwich right here, baby. Try and find it.
I love you too, Marcia Brady!
more vacay pix, for those who are interested.
As Barry Goldwater said………..
“Woman have been aborting from the beginning of time, and they will be aborting till the end of time”
The issue is….. will it be legal or illegal. The fundies love the, ‘sweep it under the carpet’ hypocrisy of the Victorians. Everything on the surface looks fine and moral.
But underneath, sex, prostitution, back street abortions are numerous. As usual with the right, it’s the image that counts.
OT: Wall St Week Ahead: Stocks to face new rate fears
NEW YORK, Feb 3 - U.S. stock investors head into next week with fresh concerns about inflation and interest rates after Friday's payrolls report showed robust job and wage growth, while a less-than-stellar earnings picture could add to weaker sentiment.
Oil prices above $65 a barrel also could dampen the mood for bulls on Wall Street, as worries over possible United Nations sanctions against No. 4 oil exporter Iran over its nuclear program continue.
Friday's report from the Labor Department tripped the market, helping push stocks down for a second straight day.
Life is icky.
The women I know who have had abortions have felt nothing but PROFOUND RELIEF that they were no longer pregnant. I've said it a million times, it's all about punishing women for having sex. Fetus, schmetus, that whore will pay.
But, it all we got.
Women having enjoyable sex scares the bejeebus out of them.
Well of course, the unsaid thing here is the unbalanced capacities for enjoyable sex, men vs women.
It makes their peckers shrink if they do consider this for very long.
If she is in any way as beautiful inside, then she's a goddess.
doug, *strange*
She is, and she's smart and mouthy as well. Definately not fundy material.
Watertiger, are you a Geena Davis type pirate now? (Lovely pictures, BTW)
Al Lewis is gone and yet the dark shadow of Cheney still looms over the land.
It's a scary world when you find yourself intellectually aligned with Barry Goldwater against the President of the United Fucking States.
"...you probably are more likely to get prostletyzed by a regular Protestant than a Mormon."
What? Mormons go door to door trying to convert people. I've never had another religion show up at my door trying to convert me.
I got your sandwich right here, baby. Try and find it.
Oh, uh, you weren't going to bring it to me?
i've said this time and again but i think before a Fundie opens their trap they should watch Vera Drake.
That tactic will only work because the film moves so slowly they will be lulled into a near comatose state.
.
Patriarchial, fundie thinking:
Women are objects to be penetrated. They can not defend themselves from penetration.
Therefore, they need -they require- someone to control their lives. Control is defense; weak objects are unable to defend themselves; therefore, weak objects require control. Because these are MY weak objects, I will control, and thus defend, them.
Patriarchy at its finest.
Diane, there's nothing wrong with the basic concept that Half Fast Skier came up with. It just needs to be tuned better to reflect the real responsibilities, and needs of women, children, and the family.
doug, *strange*
Doug, I didn't mean to imply that Half Fast was wrong, and if that's how it came across, I apologize to him and to you.
My point is, however, that since it's the woman who carries the child, it's her decision, and no one else's.
Of course, the Times article started off by saying that Cheney himself told Libby of Plame's identity.
The media should be all over this.
Watertiger, are you a Geena Davis type pirate now?
Only if Renny Harlin ISN'T directing.
Now get back to the kitchen and fix me a sandwich...
If he really loved you, he'd be demanding an eclair.
"...you probably are more likely to get prostletyzed by a regular Protestant than a Mormon."
What? Mormons go door to door trying to convert people. I've never had another religion show up at my door trying to convert me.
I've heard if you tell Jehovah's Witnesses "I'm apostate" they'll run like you just told them you're coughing bird flu. I just told the Mormons to have a nice day.
the fundies must realise that banning abortion won't stop 'em happening.
==
Moon - fundies are hysterically insecure people who want two things, as far as I can see: 1. Control over anyone weaker, and 2. Lotsa hillbilly Melodrama. It's like a perpetual motion machine.
Dr. smarty jones, pirate,
The best part of the article was in the second paragraph...
"The newly released pages were part of a legal opinion written in February 2005 by Judge David S. Tatel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. His opinion disclosed that the former chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby Jr., acknowledged to prosecutors that he had heard directly from Mr. Cheney about the Central Intelligence Agency officer, Valerie Wilson, more than a month before her identity was first publicly disclosed on July 14, 2003, by a newspaper columnist..."
I wonder how they're gonna lie their way out of this?
Women having enjoyable sex scares the bejeebus out of them. ~ Marcia Brady ∞
Then ¡El Gato Negro! has a plan wheech should send them rrrunning, no? 
so.
Women having enjoyable sex scares the bejeebus out of them. ~ Marcia Brady ∞
Then ¡El Gato Negro! has a plan wheech should send them rrrunning, no?
so.
Well of course, the unsaid thing here is the unbalanced capacities for enjoyable sex, men vs women.
It makes their peckers shrink if they do consider this for very long.
doug, *strange*
Yes. Multiple orgasms v. refractory period. Men, I feel a little sorry for you. But that whole "world power" should compensate, right?
Barry Goldwater against the President of the United Fucking States.
Well, Barry had strong and reasonable beliefs. Also, his first wife, Peggy, was with Margaret Sanger, a founding member of Planned Parenthood of Arizona.
This is off base but I'm celebrating the life of Coretta Scott King this weekend...
http://katrinamemo.blogspot.com/...retta-
king.html
you had the mysterious Etruscan civilization, where families were organised around the Matriarch and lineage had to follow the maternal line.
The women I know who have had abortions have felt nothing but PROFOUND RELIEF that they were no longer pregnant.
God, don't say THAT! Why, ALL women want to carry lil' feti in their tummies just like those wonderful 1950's sitcom mothers who somehow had big families yet were never pregnant. And, see, that proves pregancy ain't no big deal!
Sheet, next you'll be claiming women have orgasms or something equally as ridiculous.
Barry Goldwater against the President of the United Fucking States.
Well, Barry had strong and reasonable beliefs. Also, his first wife, Peggy, was with Margaret Sanger, a founding member of Planned Parenthood of Arizona.
Yeah, I just meant that it's so absurd that opposing Bush is considered, by the Tweeties, to be radical leftishness.
It's never too late for us to go Ukranian on their asses.
the time for that was 2000...
besides, it might interfer with the superbowl
in all honesty, i really don't give a flying fuck what any man has to say about abortion.
it's my body -- it's my decision.
end of discussion.
"...you probably are more likely to get prostletyzed by a regular Protestant than a Mormon."
What? Mormons go door to door trying to convert people. I've never had another religion show up at my door trying to convert me.
They all show up at my door, generally when I'm in the middle of a beautiful nap.
"Here is the hush-hush on the q.t reference..."
I've been off the internets. Can someone tell me what "q.t." means?
Thank you.
I wonder how they're gonna lie their way out of this?
Half Fast Skier
In a sane world the Cheney revelation would lead to media frenzy. I doubt this will even get on the evening news.
WGG, looks like Michigan is doing a job on the elite. 
DemByDefault,
When I was growing up in Mobile, Alabama in the 60's, them Southern Babtist weren't going door-to-door but they had their hands in everything else, making you wish they were so you could slam the door in their faces.
If he really loved you, he'd be demanding an eclair.
Well, I wanted to eat something substantial first before I demanded dessert...
the mysterious Etruscan civilization
You know, given the way things are going, it might be a good thing if folks in the future couldn't read our language and just had a list of names & stuff.
hey halfdan,
The thread below died while I was calculating this, so if you're up here, I'm posting this again:
Assuming that switchgrass is economically viable, you'd still need millions of acres just to replace a small percentage of our gasoline. And that's just not realistic.
well, what I heard on NPR was that you could get about 1,500 gallons of ethanol per acre of switchgrass. So at 626 acres/sq. mi., that's 973,000 gallons per square mile, 9.73 million gallons/10 sq. mi, 97.3 million gallons per 100 square miles, 973 million gallons, 1,000 square miles, 9.73 billion gallons/10,000 square miles, and 97.3 billion gallons per 100,000 square miles.
So in theory we could meet approximately 75% of our gasoline consumption (131 bn gal/yr)requirement by putting 100,000 square miles of land under switchgrass cultivation. That might seem insane, until you find out that we already have almost 700,000 square miles of land under cultivation in this country. So that would be 15% of the land we have under cultivation converted to switchgrass. That's quite an investment, but compared to the collapse of civilization, it's not so bad.
in all honesty, i really don't give a flying fuck what any man has to say about abortion.
it's my body -- it's my decision.
end of discussion.
bkny | 02.04.06 - 5:14 pm | #
'sactly!
Oh, uh, you weren't going to bring it to me?
NTodd, Land Shark
My love, you sit right there -- get comfy -- and wait for it. Don't move. Close your eyes. I'm sure you'll get your sandwich annnnny minute....
When I was growing up in Mobile, Alabama in the 60's, them Southern Babtist weren't going door-to-door but they had their hands in everything else, making you wish they were so you could slam the door in their faces.
Half Fast Skier
Why does this put me in mind of a zombie movie? Shaun of the dead in Mobile.
Off to dinner with my better half (who believes Rex The Mountain Lion mascot for DHS is going to break into "YMCA" or that "Milkshake" song at any moment).
I've been off the internets. Can someone tell me what "q.t." means?
Thank you.
mer
I'm not exactly sure, but when scooter said it to Ari i'm sure it was implicating scandal.
To make it ickier, nurses put adhesive tape everywhere, so if you are ever under their care in a hospital, it will take weeks before you finally wash off the sticky adhesive black marks off. (you wash one off and another will show up elsewhere the next day)
doug, *strange* | 02.04.06 - 4:59 pm | #
vegetable or mineraloil followed by nail polish remover will fix that problem.
Yes. Multiple orgasms v. refractory period. Men, I feel a little sorry for you.
Don't be. Sane men know about this and spend about as much worrying on it as the interesting movement of the hair from the top of their head to their shoulders as they grow older.
(actually a pretty funny cosmic joke in my view.)
On February 18, 1937, Margaret Sanger addressed a group of socially prominent Phoenix women. At the time, Arizona was reporting the second highest maternal and infant mortality rate in the nation. Sanger said the statistics in Arizona were "ridiculous and unnecessary".
Both horrified and inspired by Ms. Sanger' speech, Mrs. Barry Goldwater, Mrs. H.T. Cuthbert, Mrs. Waltern Bimson, Mrs. Dwight B. Heard and Mrs. John Adams Rockwell took immediate action and began to raise funds to open the Mother's Health Clinic.
The doors opened on October 1, 1937. The clinic, which provided diaphragm fittings and family planning counseling for married women, was packed on a daily basis. By 1942, Phoenix' Mother's Health Clinic had become an affiliate of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America and was eventually renamed Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona.
the whole idea of Patriarchial rule only became established with the event of farming.
when we settle down, securing ones land and legacy became paramount.
Off topic, but, hey:
NEW YORK - Al Lewis, the cigar-chomping patriarch of "The Munsters" whose work as a basketball scout, restaurateur and political candidate never eclipsed his role as Grandpa from the television sitcom, died after years of failing health. He was 95.
Lewis, with his wife at his bedside, passed away Friday night, said Bernard White, program director at WBAI-FM, where the actor hosted a weekly radio program. White made the announcement on the air during the Saturday slot where Lewis usually appeared.
"To say that we will miss his generous, cantankerous, engaging spirit is a profound understatement," White said.
Lewis, sporting a somewhat cheesy Dracula outfit, became a pop culture icon playing the irascible father-in-law to Fred Gwynne's ever-bumbling Herman Munster on the 1964-66 television show. He was also one of the stars of another classic TV comedy, playing Officer Leo Schnauzer on "Car 54, Where Are You?"
But Lewis' life off the small screen ranged far beyond his acting antics. A former ballplayer at Thomas Jefferson High School, he achieved notoriety as a basketball talent scout familiar to coaching greats like Jerry Tarkanian and Red Auerbach.
He operated a successful Greenwich Village restaurant, Grandpa's, where he was a regular presence _ chatting with customers, posing for pictures, signing autographs.
Just two years short of his 90th birthday, a ponytailed Lewis ran as the Green Party candidate against incumbent Gov. George Pataki. Lewis campaigned against draconian drug laws and the death penalty, while going to court in a losing battle to have his name appear on the ballot as "Grandpa Al Lewis."
He didn't defeat Pataki, but managed to collect more 52,000 votes.
Lewis was born Alexander Meister in upstate New York before his family moved to Brooklyn, where the 6-foot-1 teen began a lifelong love affair with basketball. He later became a vaudeville and circus performer, but his career didn't take off until television did the same.
Lewis, as Officer Schnauzer, played opposite Gwynne's Officer Francis Muldoon in "Car 54, Where Are You?" _ a comedy about a Bronx police precinct that aired from 1961-63. One year later, the duo appeared together in "The Munsters," taking up residence at the fictional 1313 Mockingbird Lane.
The series, about a family of clueless creatures plunked down in middle America, was a success and ran through 1966. It forever locked Lewis in as the memorably twisted character; decades later, strangers would greet him on the street with shouts of "Grandpa!"
Unlike some television stars, Lewis never complained about getting typecast and made appearances in character for decades.
"Why would I mind?" he asked in a 1997 interview. "It pays my mortgage."
Lewis rarely slowed down, opening his restaurant and hosting his WBAI radio program.
In October 2005, Mr. Deutsch sent an e-mail message to Flint Wild, a NASA contractor working on a set of Web presentations about Einstein for middle-school students. The message said the word "theory" needed to be added after every mention of the Big Bang.
In the God theory we trust.
One nation under the God theory.
God: "not proven fact; it is opinion"
--
My love, you sit right there -- get comfy -- and wait for it. Don't move. Close your eyes. I'm sure you'll get your sandwich annnnny minute....
I'd also appreciate a happy ending...
I wonder how they're gonna lie their way out of this?
Half Fast Skier - 5:12 pm
offer fitz a judgeship?
worked with Hillman, the Abramoff prosecutor...
Did everyone Freep the Vote
I've had Mormons come to my door once, maybe twice.
Jehovah Witnesses have followed me through three moves since 1978. Now, those folkes show up.
Mr. Cheney about the Central Intelligence Agency officer, Valerie Wilson, more than a month before her identity was first publicly disclosed on July 14, 2003, by a newspaper columnist..."
I wonder how they're gonna lie their way out of this?
The sad thing is, they won't have to, no one will ask them the question. Hillary said "Plantation" or whatever the bullshit "issue" is for the Beltway this week.
Grandpa Munster is dead and yet George Bush and Dick Cheney...you all know the rest.
At one point during the '90s, he was a frequent guest on the Howard Stern radio show, once sending the shock jock diving for the delay button by leading an undeniably obscene chant against the Federal Communications Commission.
He also popped up in a number of movies, including the acclaimed "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" and "Married to the Mob." Lewis reprised his role of Schnauzer in the movie remake of "Car 54," and appeared as a guest star on television shows such as "Taxi," "Green Acres" and "Lost in Space."
But in 2003, Lewis was hospitalized for an angioplasty. Complications during surgery led to an emergency bypass and the amputation of his right leg below the knee and all the toes on his left foot. Lewis spent the next month in a coma.
A year later, he was back offering his recollections of a seminal punk band on the DVD "Ramones Raw."
He is survived by his wife, Karen Ingenthron-Lewis, three sons and four grandchildren.
What? Mormons go door to door trying to convert people. I've never had another religion show up at my door trying to convert me.
Yes, but they're generally polite about it. (And you've never had Jehovah's Witnesses come by?) I was thinking of the kind of leaning-over-to-the-next-table kind of witnessing I remember from college. Mormons usually don't do that kind of in-your-face stuff.
If he really loved you, he'd be demanding an eclair.
Hecate Malificent
Oh, he doesn't. I'm just the trampy type that would get an abortion or something. Certainly not the type you'd take home to momma.
vegetable or mineraloil followed by nail polish remover will fix that problem.
as I said the nurses put the adhesive tape everywhere. You'd have to take a shower in the solvent to get it all off. All you can do is to wash frequently, and work extra hard on the marks when you find them.
Yes. Multiple orgasms v. refractory period. Men, I feel a little sorry for you. But that whole "world power" should compensate, right?
Marcia Brady ?
hehhahahahaha...ahem. Yeah, poor babies. They sure carry a grudge, don't they?
and to pick up on the previous thread, i just want to point out that once idiot son is gone, these agencies are still going to be polluted with his appointees. between all of the career professionals who have been forced out during the bush regime and the political hacks being appointed now, there's some very wicked times ahead rebuilding these agencies -- not to mention the rebuilding public trust.
you really have to wonder sometimes, if these people aren't the ultimate manchurian candidates..
Dr. smarty jones, pirate
Sad that irony trumps the truth, especially when a sitting Judge is the author and what he says has no bearing.
Thanks for that GWPDA.
That's terrible news about Al Lewis and Betty Friedan. *sigh*
Seems the Fundies have their knickers in a twist because Britnee "We should all just be quiet and do what the prezinninit says" Spears is going to be on will and grace.
...
DemByDefault
NBC caved again to the AFA and axed the Britney Spears "cruci-fixins" gag.
Seemed like a lame joke anyway, and that's the problem with defending the First Amendment. Who can get all fired up over defending a silly joke grafted around a (perceived) commercial-selling cameo?
The fact that this gives Wildmon something else to crow about is...well...icky.
We hear a lot now about regret and sorrow, and I know some women who have abortions feel that way, but we don't hear about the regrets and sorrow women feel who went ahead and had the baby, and we don't hear much from women who are just completely relieved and thankful that the clinic was there for them and they can get on with their lives—lives that are good and moral.
I'm sick of those commercials.
They're "sorry" so no one else should be permitted to have an abortion.
bkny--it really boggles the mind when one realizes it is as bad as all that.
and all because of the boyking.
On The Q.T.
the phrase, on the QT, meaning "off the record or in confidence"
On the Q.T.
According to Robert Hendrickson, in The Facts on File Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, the first reference is from a British ballad of 1870, which contained the line “Whatever I tell you is on the QT”. It seems to have been just an abbreviated spelling, using the first and last letters of the word quiet, the mild obfuscation also suggesting a meaning for the expression. The Oxford English Dictionary has a first sighting from 1884: “It will be possible to have one spree on the strict q.t.”. Mr Hendrickson points out that it also occurs in a famous London ditty of 1891, sung by Lottie Collins, which also introduced the famous chorus line “Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay”:
A sweet Tuxedo girl you see,
Queen of swell society,
Fond of fun as fun can be,
When it's on the strict Q.T.
I can hardly even bear to participate in this discussion. With Alito on the bench Roe is toast. Whether they do it in one fell sweep, or if they pick at it around the edges til there is nothing left to pick at, it is toast.
And I can seem to get young women connected to the subject. Too icky I suppose.
Stocks to face new rate fears
A stamp tax would clear that right up.
I see WGG is adept at Shao-Lin Google as well.
*bows*
it's my body -- it's my decision.
end of discussion.
bkny
Perzackly!
Morons.
They're "sorry" so no one else should be permitted to have an abortion.
How cynical is it that the religionists are trotting out these women who they have brainwashed with guilt to testify about their guiltiness?
It's rape, really.
can seem=can't seem
but y'all knew that.
One the best arguments I've heard lately against the anti-choice crowd was made here the other day, we can't go back to a time when poor women threw themselves down the stairs rather than face another birth in an already poor family.
i've said this time and again but i think before a Fundie opens their trap they should watch Vera Drake.
Moonbootica,
Sadly, I doubt it would make any difference. Hard core fundies are taught and believe that Satan is out there all the time trying to trap 'em and they'd just shut their minds off.
in all honesty, i really don't give a flying fuck what any man has to say about abortion.
it's my body -- it's my decision.
end of discussion.
bkny | 02.04.06 - 5:14 pm | #
'sactly!
her eyes
And you have never seen, nor will you ever, voice thoughts about abortion other than it is an individual's choice. Even I am smart enough to figure that one out.
Grandpa Munster is dead and yet George Bush and Dick Cheney...you all know the rest.
Monica_A, One Bad Motherf***er
It's weird. I had the same sort of thought when JFK, Jr. died and Ronald Reagan was still drawing breath.
Hard core fundies are taught and believe that Satan is out there all the time trying to trap 'em and they'd just shut their minds off.
Tena
Shut their WHATS off?
"The newly released pages were part of a legal opinion written in February 2005 by Judge David S. Tatel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. His opinion disclosed that the former chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby Jr., acknowledged to prosecutors that he had heard directly from Mr. Cheney about the Central Intelligence Agency officer, Valerie Wilson, more than a month before her identity was first publicly disclosed on July 14, 2003, by a newspaper columnist..."
I don't have a comment. I just wanted to see that one more time. NOW will Bush fire him?
the phrase, on the QT, meaning "off the record or in confidence"
Pere Ubu
thanks Pere. I learn something new everyday by coming here! Actually, I thought it was most likely modern slang, and surprised to see its been with us for some time.
you really have to wonder sometimes, if these people aren't the ultimate manchurian candidates..
bkny | 02.04.06 - 5:19 pm
nothing EVER gets fixed
nothing EVER gets repaired or returned to its previous state...
what happens is that shit gets papered over, and pardons are issued, and the fascists crawl under their rocks again and wait til the NEXT time they can emerge and fuck things up...
and liberal democracies ALWAYS seem to let it happen...
Yes. Multiple orgasms v. refractory period. Men, I feel a little sorry for you. But that whole "world power" should compensate, right?
Marcia Brady ?
hehhahahahaha...ahem. Yeah, poor babies. They sure carry a grudge, don't they?
Only a foolish woman underestimates the orgasmic capabilities of a 21 year old male.
"And I can seem to get young women connected to the subject. Too icky I suppose."
--ql in ny
I haven't read abortion statistics in this country lately (maybe they are being aborted). I do remember abortions had dropped during the Clinton administration. My gut feeling is they are up now.
I agree, as do most people, that abortion is 'icky', but if I had a nickel for every pro-choice person who made the "women's rights" argument of abortion, as the second of these two paragraphs does, I'd have 10 cents. And the writer said it - 'nobody else seems to talk this way'.
True. True.
I gather that most people don't actually understand the argument. Charles Barkley was on tv with that incredibly fuckin annoying pseudo-sportscaster-type the other day (Deutch, or something?), and Barkley was like, "I just have to get my daughter through college without being pregnant so at least she'll have a chance."
Why can't more pro-choice people talk like that? Incompetence - played out daily, for the people of America. Pathetic.
One the best arguments I've heard lately against the anti-choice crowd was made here the other day, we can't go back to a time when poor women threw themselves down the stairs rather than face another birth in an already poor family.
DemByDefault
They'll just say what Margaret Sanger heard a doctor tell a woman in that position.
To make her husband sleep on the roof.
And I can't seem to get young women connected to the subject. Too icky I suppose
And class is another complication, "Republican for choice" types know that the law will never really affect them, even if ScAlito and Roberts do their thing.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar
"offer fitz a judgeship?"
If I'm not mistaken, a prosecutor was taken down a notch or two because of Abramoff and it's being investigated,
Also, there are a few raised eyebrows over Bush offering Judgeships to prosectors running highly publicized court cases that would have detrimental consequences to the GOP and his Admin.
The Congress is starting to get wise to these headhunting expeditions by Bush to incapicitate Justice Dept investigations.
Geez... Archives, Jeffraham, Archives!
.
It is hilarious how the fundies always refer to any form of science as……..“just another theory.”
And yet, a book that was written 2000 years ago by, who knows…… is taken as a proven.
The funniest I once heard, was a Christian fundie who explained that……because she could go to Jerusalem , and NOT find the body of Christ, proves that he must have ascended into heaven.
It would be like a scientist claiming……..
Hey, I have just discovered a cure for cancer, but the fact that I can’t show it to you proves it is true.
Why is Charles Barkley a fucking Republican?
He's a black guy from Alabama for Chrissakes!
Oy vey: another abortion thread.
My two cents:
If abortion is "icky," then WTF is the death penalty?
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
I don't have a comment. I just wanted to see that one more time. NOW will Bush fire him?
Hecate Malificent
The most revealing thing about all this is that the headlines are a meek "New Details Emerge on Plame Invetigation" with no hint of the immense significance of this.
VP Gore would have been crucified by the press.
Matrilineality
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
I wrote a paper about how Circe and Kalypso represented the matrilineal traditions that were being destroyed in The Odessey, while Penelope represented the patriarchal "good wife." The teacher thought I was wacky, but she still gave me an A.
Charles Barkley was on tv with that incredibly fuckin annoying pseudo-sportscaster-type the other day (Deutch, or something?),
I call him Donnie Douchebag.
I do remember abortions had dropped during the Clinton administration. My gut feeling is they are up now.
Oh, that's true. I don't have the exact numbers, but that's the fact, jack.
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
Dustin Ridgeway
Doesn't have a clue.
Only a foolish woman underestimates the orgasmic capabilities of a 21 year old male.
Muad 'Dib
Well, hello, Muad 'Dib...
USer women who have children, but regret it, and say so
get called really baaad names...they are objects of even more opprobrium than women who abort rather than regret...
Why is Charles Barkley a fucking Republican?
He's a black guy from Alabama for Chrissakes!
When his mother told him the Rebublicans were only for the rich, he said, I know, and I'm rich.
But I seem to remember reading he defected to the Bright Side in 2000
I wrote a paper about how Circe and Calypso represented the matrilineal traditions that were being destroyed in The Odyssey, while Penelope represented the patriarchal "good wife." The teacher thought I was wacky, but she still gave me an A.
Marcia Brady ∞
I think you're right.
My two cents:
If abortion is "icky," then WTF is the death penalty?
res ipsa loquitur | 02.04.06 - 5:26 pm | #
um, hypocrisy?
not to mention all the killing that during war! why aren't they as zealous about that?
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
==
May I just repeat my earlier remark about hillbilly melodrama? Please? It fits this guy to a tee.
If abortion is "icky," then WTF is the death penalty?
res ipsa loquitur
Icky-er. My ex made me watch The Green Mile. I still haven't forgiven him.
But I seem to remember reading he defected to the Bright Side in 2000
DemByDefault
I would hope so.
He was talking about getting into politics in Alabama as a Repuke.
My daughter said "Yeah, with a white wife. That'll work with the folks in Jebusland!"
Whether matriarchal societies might have existed at some time in the distant past is controversial. The controversy began in reaction to the book by Johann Jakob Bachofen Mother Right: An Investigation of the Religious and Juridical Character of Matriarchy in the Ancient World in 1861. Several generations of ethnologists were inspired by his pseudo-evolutionary theory of archaic matriarchy. Following him and Jane Ellen Harrison, several generations of scholars, arguing usually from myths or oral traditions and neolithic female cult-figures, suggested that many ancient societies were matriarchal, or even that there existed a wide-ranging matriarchal society prior to the ancient cultures of which we are aware (see for example The White Goddess by Robert Graves).
More recent archaeologists like Marija Gimbutas have argued for a widespread matriarchal culture in pre-Indo-European Old Europe of the Neolithic.
The old Moad-Dib took a pilgramage into the desert some time ago. I know not this Muad 'Dib
USer women who have children, but regret it, and say so
get called really baaad names...they are objects of even more opprobrium than women who abort rather than regret...
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar (aka | Email | 02.04.06 - 5:28 pm | #
oh bigtime word on that Woody!
And class is another complication, "Republican for choice" types know that the law will never really affect them, even if ScAlito and Roberts do their thing.
DemByDefault
ya know, there's a part of me that would be happy to see that kansas law the insane a.g. wants enforced -- the one that all teenagers under 16 evidencing sexual activity are to be reported to state authorities. it'd be righteous to see the son of the local gop, who happens to be the football captain, get nailed (so to speak) for something like this. .
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
But not much of one. The concept of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd term abortions and how many and for what reason they happen, I'm sure excapes you.
It fits this guy to a tee.
mena
A real know-nothing, that one is!
May I make a brief point: A good education has to effect of freeing the mind of misconceptions and allowing an individual to truly understand how little they know of the world.
As the cat would say, "So"
So, as I was saying... I had a nice li'l 3-hr. nap, but had the weirdest dreams.
.
people against abortion are 100% in favor of having absolute control over women and their bodies. they do not love the fetus. they do not love the baby - they do want women barefoot, pregnant and very PUNISHED in a permanent way for daring to have sex in any way shape or form (including married women who have already have many children - see the big gay pope, who not only forbids abortion, but birth control).
if you know their motivation, then you won't fall for all their muddying the waters over "ickiness" that the "open minders" seem to have fallen for.
One area where written myths are available from an early period is the Aegean culture-zone, where the Minoan Great Goddess was worshipped in a society where women and men were apparently equals. Gender equality is a typical characteristic of matriarchy, according to the claims of modern Matriarchal Studies.
Modern 'Goddess women' are sometimes too quick to assume that any culture that worships a Mother Goddess must be matriarchal. But there are traces, under the insistently patriarchal Olympian mythology of classical Greece, of earlier matrilineal and matrifocal systems. See the entries for Alcimede or for Hyas for examples.
The concept of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd term abortions and how many and for what reason they happen, I'm sure excapes you.
doug, *strange*
A blastocyst is "holy" to the troll.
Fuck women's lives.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar (aka | Email | 02.04.06 - 5:20 pm | #
just about as much fun as "sub rosa"
Why is Charles Barkley a fucking Republican?
He's a black guy from Alabama for Chrissakes!
Terry C, Coldplayer
he very actively campaigned with john edwards. i think that republican tag was more joke than real; he's disavowed it.
I have a real problem with abortion. How can I on one hand condemn the death penalty or the useless loss of soldiers' lives in Iraq but, on the other hand, condone abortions?
To me the destruction of a human life is an abomination whether it occurs in utero or on the battlefield. What we really need is a sane national policy with respect to birth control and a system of placing unwanted babies with families that will want them and take good care of them.
It sorrows me to live in a nation so lacking in love and compassion that we would rather destroy lives than save them.
May I make a brief point: A good education has to effect of freeing the mind of misconceptions and allowing an individual to truly understand how little they know of the world.
and yet, some people don't know what they don't know!
"they do not love the fetus. they do not love the baby - they do want women barefoot, pregnant and very PUNISHED in a permanent way for daring to have sex in any way shape or form"
Well, if ya can't keep 'em barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, how can ya control them?
Well, hello, Muad 'Dib...
Marcia Brady ∞
Usul to you baby.
Later, 'Bats. Keep up the outrage as long as possible.
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
Dustin Ridgeway
And fuck you sideways with Barndog's rusty chain saw, you cretin with a gelatinous goo for a brain.
I have a real problem with abortion. How can I on one hand condemn the death penalty or the useless loss of soldiers' lives in Iraq but, on the other hand, condone abortions?
With all due respect, it's not YOUR choice.
If you have a problem with abortion, no one is forcing you to have one!
it'd be righteous to see the son of the local gop, who happens to be the football captain
If that law passes, I'll bet 20 grand against a boy ever being arrested
COP: now son, you go on home, and next time you feel that way, go over the state line to missouri and find yerself a hoo-er.
[The best tribute is her work, so here goes.]
The problem lay buried, unspoken, for many years in the minds of American women. It was a strange stirring, a sense of dissatisfaction, a yearning that women suffered in the middle of the twentieth century in the United States. Each suburban wife struggled with it alone. As she made the beds, shopped for groceries, matched slipcover material, ate peanut butter sandwiches with her children, chauffeured Cub Scouts and Brownies, lay beside her husband at night--she was afraid to ask even of herself the silent question--"Is this all?"
...
But on an April morning in 1959, I heard a mother of four, having coffee with four other mothers in a suburban development fifteen miles from New York, say in a tone of quiet desperation, "the problem." And the others knew, without words, that she was not talking about a problem with her husband, or her children, or her home. Suddenly they realized they all shared the same problem, the problem that has no name. They began, hesitantly, to talk about it. Later, after they had picked up their children at nursery school and taken them home to nap, two of the women cried, in sheer relief, just to know they were not alone.
...
If I am right, the problem that has no name stirring in the minds of so many American women today is not a matter of loss of femininity or too much education, or the demands of domesticity. It is far more important than anyone recognizes. It is the key to these other new and old problems which have been torturing women and their husbands and children, and puzzling their doctors and educators for years. It may well be the key to our future as a nation and a culture. We can no longer ignore that voice within women that says: "I want something more than my husband and my children and my home."
-- Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique, Chapter 1.
Bless her soul, and never let the door she opened be closed again.
Dustin's parents, methinks, threw out the baby and kept the afterbirth.
Just like Chimpy's parental unit.
If abortion is "icky," then WTF is the death penalty?
Oh, well, they're totally different. Abortion happens in bloodsoaked charnel houses of murder, done by giggling sadistic doctors and crazed lesbian nurses, while death penalty killings happen in nice clean quiet rooms with responsible medical personnel present.
Oh, and death penalty is done by the State, and fuck knows the State never messes anything up.
"we don't hear much from women who are just completely relieved and thankful that the clinic was there for them and they can get on with their lives"
nobody asks because it doesn't fit into the narrative that the right has hammered (and people like Hilary Clinton have fallen into) that abortion is "regrettable".
and there is shame heaped upon that decision, which means any counterposing viewpoint becomes silenced, because culturally it is not seen as a valid viewpoint. abortion that turns out good is seen as "selfish" because everyone knows women exist to sacrifice themselves for others.
"Yes, but they're generally polite about it. (And you've never had Jehovah's Witnesses come by?)"
Yeah, I'd forgotten (thankfuly) about the Witnesses. My sister lives in Utah and her kid was constantly hassled by Morman kids and adults trying to convert her. Maybe it's a lot worse when they are dominant religion in the area.
Bless her soul, and never let the door she opened be closed again.
Uncle Smokes
Word!
The Ancient Egyptians often married their sisters (or another female relative) because they followed the Matrilineality system.
the Ptolemies carried on this tradition.
Oh, and death penalty is done by the State, and fuck knows the State never messes anything up.
You forgot closure, and deterrance, Haven't you noticed how the crime rates have plummeted since 1973?
Only a foolish woman underestimates the orgasmic capabilities of a 21 year old male.
Muad 'Dib
Come sit over here by me.
abortion that turns out good is seen as "selfish" because everyone knows women exist to sacrifice themselves for others.
MadEye Moody |
Oh, yes - and once a woman gets pregnant, she ceases to be an individual with rights.
THAT is what these anti-choice assholes want.
I've always believed that I was entitled to have a life.
the Ancients had a rather active sex life if Nigel Cawthorne's Sex Life of the Roman Emperors is anything to go by.
male, female - all the same to them!
I have a real problem with abortion. How can I on one hand condemn the death penalty or the useless loss of soldiers' lives in Iraq but, on the other hand, condone abortions?
When there seems to be more genuine soul-searching by a woman over whether or not to have an abortion, than was the case in the decision to send us to "war", I'd say that's your problem right there.
Moonie,
I was thirty-five years old and the proud possessor of a bachelors and a masters degree before I ever heard of Bachafocen, Gimbutas, Graves, or Carol Christ. You are an amazing scholar.
he Ancients had a rather active sex life if Nigel Cawthorne's Sex Life of the Roman Emperors is anything to go by.
male, female - all the same to them!
Have you penetrated anyone yet?
Atia of the Julii
Usul to you baby.
Muad'Dib
Is that better or worse? Really, I read Dune some time ago...
-- Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique
My bible.
Hecate Malificent well i still hope to learn a lot more thats for sure!
Moonie,
I was thirty-five years old and the proud possessor of a bachelors and a masters degree before I ever heard of Bachafocen, Gimbutas, Graves, or Carol Christ. You are an amazing scholar.
Hecate Malificent
Yes, she is.
Her posts are very educational and enlightening!
The support for state sanctioned violence by most anti-abortion people is what tells you they are liars, on what they say they believe. If I start hearing them talk about unnecessary war, and the use there of bombs, gases, land mines, and white phosphorus weapons, then I might listen to their arguments more.
But they don't, so in my view what they say is the meaningless chatter of holler mockery tribes.
I think I will go take a walk and cool off.
Later, rational people.
Oops...I may have messed the previous link up: Here's Chapter 1 of The Feminine Mystique.
[I got kind of emotional contemplating Friedan's legacy.]
You forgot closure, and deterrance, Haven't you noticed how the crime rates have plummeted since 1973?
Murder rates are actually higher in states with a death penalty than without. (The research was done a couple years ago and I forget the details.)
Bachafocen, Gimbutas, Graves, or Carol Christ. You are an amazing scholar.
Hecate Malificent
I self-educated on those, as well as Merlin Stone and Z. Budapest and Starhawke. But I haven't experienced Bachafocen.
Only a foolish woman underestimates the orgasmic capabilities of a 21 year old male. ~ Muad 'Dib
When thees perrito speaks of "orgasmic capabilities" of 21 yr olds, he ees speaking of hees orgasms.
Oh, si, they can have sex twenty times een thirty minutes.
Eet sounds like a lot of fun, for 45 seconds at a time, no?
so.
"Without abortion, women would be less healthy, less educated, less able to realize their gifts and talents, less able to choose their mates; children would be cared for worse and provided for less well; sex would be blighted by fear of pregnancy, as it used to be back in the good old days; families would be even more screwed up than they already are; there would be more single mothers who can't cope, more divorce, more poverty, and more unhappy people feeling sandbagged by circumstance"
Amazing how these morons believe that WOMEN should be made to pay for having sex.
The men should walk away scott-free.
Sexism to the extreme.
Murder rates are actually higher in states with a death penalty than without. (The research was done a couple years ago and I forget the details.)
I always suspected this. Just look at Texas: Hasn't the murder rate sky-rocketed there in the last twenty years? And all those years that NY's was declining was under Cuomo, wasn't it?
Here -
http://www.commondreams.org/head...s/092200-
01.htm
Published on Fridya, September 22, 2000 in the San Francisco Chronicle
States Without Death Penalty Have Lower Homicide Rates
by Raymond Bonner, Ford Fessenden, New York Times
The dozen states that have chosen not to enact the death penalty since the Supreme Court ruled in 1976 that it was constitutionally permissible have not had higher homicide rates than states with the death penalty, statistics and analysis show.
Elagabalus was obessed with huge penises, he actually sent scouts out to visit the provinces and find a prized specimen.
Men who were well attired could rise to high positions, they were appointed purely for the size of their organ.
a saying from Petronius did the rounds "It profits a man more to develope his penis than to develop his mind"
I took a couple of semesters of Modern European History - as a portion of my philsophy studies.
I've lost track of most of it, but I do recall some of the more important issues and events.
mockery tribes/monkey tribes
geez, what a spell checker can do to you if you don't pay close attention to it.
When thees perrito speaks of "orgasmic capabilities" of 21 yr olds, he ees speaking of hees orgasms.
Oh, si, they can have sex twenty times een thirty minutes.
Eet sounds like a lot of fun, for 45 seconds at a time, no?
so.
¡El Gato Negro! | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 5:43 pm | #
Rather puts one in mind of the mating capacity of the male shrew iirc.
These anti-abortion nitwits see nothing wrong with the murder of Iraqi children via our bombs, etc.
Reminds me of some folks in my area who demonstrated outside family planning clinics and wrote letters to the paper expressing their screwed up views while contributing money to the IRA.
Amazing how these morons believe that WOMEN should be made to pay for having sex.
The Bible tells them so, right up front.
Wind and haloscan acting up again.
I'll be back.
Just like 150 ago it was my choice whether I wanted to own slaves or not?
My personal choice may or may not have been right but society as a whole decided the practice was abhorrent except for the south. The result: 600,000 dead and racial anomosity that continues to this day.
We need to come to a much more rational solution to the abortion problem. Absolutism will get us nowhere.
Men who were well attired could rise to high positions, they were appointed purely for the size of their organ.
always milinium late and a dinari short I am
Just like 150 ago it was my choice whether I wanted to own slaves or not?
That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long time. Sorry, but it is.
Finding a mentulae magnae would earn the discoverer an enourmous finders fee.
Elagabalus then inspected the goods, if the man measure up, he would be inivited to share the imperial bed, if he satisifed the emperors lust he would earn a performance-related bonus.
These anti-abortion nitwits see nothing wrong with the murder of Iraqi children via our bombs, etc.
I saw a docs seminar on one of the university channels on emergency care in wartime. What they said about the damage done to a human body by the tools of war sickens me to this day.
abortion problem
Abortion isn't a problem; it's a medical procedure. Unwanted pregnancies are a problem.
Men who were well attired could rise to high positions, they were appointed purely for the size of their organ.
Ah, the joys of having an Italian husband.
And all those years that NY's was declining was under Cuomo, wasn't it?
DemByDefault
I believe it still is. NYC is the safest big city in the US. I feel perfectly safe (as I ever will) walking here at night.
Not so much in the other states where I've lived.
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
Was it Ken Burns' Civil War series where they showed the forensic tests measuring the damage caused to the body by the different kinds of weaponry? And that was 150 years ago.
Bunker busters. Bunkers my ass.
Just like 150 ago it was my choice whether I wanted to own slaves or not?
Only relationship between the two subjects is that women are supposed to be the new property, as far as the Reich is concerned.
My bible.
Terry C,
Well, I had a real problem with it. She seemed to be advocating trickle down feminism. That arm of the woman's movement never took into account the needs of poor working women, including daycare. And what has resulted is a hodge podge of desperate parents making individual arrangements that are often fraught with danger. They just assumed these matters would be attended to, but they never have been.
I can't access blogs from a new window.
Welp, maybe I need to lay low.
.
Ah, the joys of having an Italian husband.
Rage Time
Italian foreplay: "Hey, you awake?"
I apologize in advance for any offence the preceding joke may have caused.
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
That comment right there is enough for you to be shunned by any sane person.
the Ancients owned slaves too but they had a very different code as such (if you get what I mean).
a slave would often be a prisoner of war or somebody who owed a debt.
often slaves in the Roman empire could buy their freedom.
not that cruelty didn't go on just its not really the best way to compare the slavery we know today and the slavery they had back then.
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
When you show me a blastocyst that can exist independently of another human being, I'll buy into your argument. Slaves were individuals. I just find your comparison offensive, really.
Oh, si, they can have sex twenty times een thirty minutes.
Si, when the gatito pequeño requires más corto y más rápidamente.
Abortion isn't a problem; it's a medical procedure. Unwanted pregnancies are a problem.
masculine_monica_nyc
Not to mention lack of teaching about impulse control combined with a culturally reinforced sense of sexual entitlement in men--Jocelyn Elders is sorely missed.
heh its one reason why the Romans did not really invent stuff to replace slaves.
why go to that expense and hassle when you could simply invade and plunder another country and get endless ammounts of slaves?
Amigos, yesterday een thees comment section ¡El Gato Negro! learned a word that perrrfectly describes thees "hontlia".
Thees word, she ees "Ultracrepidarian".
so.
At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
Most slaves were human beings with a life behind them, not a fetus.
And killing a slave demanded compensation for the loss of valued property. I don't think it'd be out of character for some anti-abortionist to start demanding women pay compensation for having an abortion, possibly on the grounds of the taxes the child would have paid. As I said, it's still a matter of property.
Italian foreplay: "Hey, you awake?"
Not at my house! ;D
Tiberius wanted to reduced the reliance on slaves and restore the old system of yeoman farmers.
slaves revolted several times.
can anyone tell me if Geena Davis' Commander in Chief has been cancelled?
I am speculating that she was making someone look bad....
it certainly seems the Ancients were not hung up about sex.
between birth control and plan b, abortions should not be necessary any longer. why are fundamentalists and republicans against plan b? birth control? answer please: trolls? other protozoa? anyone?
women should be able to choose when they want to bear a child. end of fucking argument.
and i hope science finds a way to impregnate men (and hopefully bless them with menstruation and menopause) soon so this arguement can go into the historical wastebin along with "will the world really end when the next solar eclise happens?"
heh its one reason why the Romans did not really invent stuff to replace slaves.
why go to that expense and hassle when you could simply invade and plunder another country and get endless ammounts of slaves?
And one way where slavery eventually was a trap for Rome. When they got to the end of their tethers, on how far they could command conquered coutries, Rome began to decline.
can anyone tell me if Geena Davis' Commander in Chief has been cancelled?
I am speculating that she was making someone look bad....
Geena Davis would make watching the SOTU worth it.
Australian foreplay:
"Brace yourself, Shelia."
I apologize in advance for any offense the preceding joke may have given.
can anyone tell me if Geena Davis' Commander in Chief has been cancelled?
I am speculating that she was making someone look bad... ~ SHG
Si, she was making Geena Davis look bad.
so.
uh, oh. this won't load now.
http://atrios.blogspot.com/
Well, I had a real problem with it. She seemed to be advocating trickle down feminism. That arm of the woman's movement never took into account the needs of poor working women, including daycare. And what has resulted is a hodge podge of desperate parents making individual arrangements that are often fraught with danger. They just assumed these matters would be attended to, but they never have been.
ql in ny
Time to renew the spirit of Emma Goldman.
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
Not really. That thought was aborted, as just a blob of hillbilly-itis. Why don't you head off to Iraq, and rip the arms, legs and heads off a few 8-year-olds?
and i hope science finds a way to impregnate men
Easier to develop birth control pills for males to take -- and to allow birth control to be paid for as viagra is paid for.
Hadrian of course fixed the boundaries of the Roman Empire.
which is why despite being a good military man is often regulated to second place to Trajan.
Under Trajan the Roman Empire reached its greatest extent. Hadrian, upon becoming ruler, returned Mesopotamia to Parthian rule. However, all the other territories conquered by Trajan were retained.
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
That comment right there is enough for you to be shunned by any sane person.
doug, *strange*
For me, being forced to use one's body to support the life of another is slavery. You have a garden that brings you pleasure? Good. You have a field of cotton that you have no choice in working? Slavery.
A human cannot be legally forced to use his/her body to support the life or wellbeing or finances of another person.
The only real freedom we have is the freedom to use our physical bodies as we see fit. All other freedom is a mirage without that.
you see the Romans loved military glory and the loot which they gained but they did not like the responbility of running a province.
its why in the more peaceful provinces their present was miminal.
the local elites would often be left to rule.
PBS did a very good doc on the Roman invasion of Britain and Bodicea's last stand, very good historical reenactments, I thought.
Easier to develop birth control pills for males to take -- and to allow birth control to be paid for as viagra is paid for.
There have been some experimental ones. The problem so far with them is that what's been tried, as methods to lower the sperm count, also lowers the libido in men.
being proficient in military matters was an important way for a Roman Emperor to establish his creditentials.
its why Claudius (a unmilitary Emperor) invaded Britain, there was no real reason to but he needed to prove he was a military man and not show weakness.
Australian foreplay:
"Brace yourself, Shelia."
I apologize in advance for any offense the preceding joke may have given.
Rage Time
I'm utterly offended/amused by that joke...
ts why Claudius (a unmilitary Emperor) invaded Britain, there was no real reason to but he needed to prove he was a military man and not show weakness.
I hear tell that sometimes history repeats itself.
Super Bowl Broadcast to Have Tape Delay By LYNN ELBER, AP Television Writer
LOS ANGELES - ABC is putting a five-second defensive line between the Super Bowl and television viewers.
The tape delay, for the game itself as well as the pre-game, halftime and post-game entertainment, is an apparent echo of the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction" that marred the 2004 broadcast on CBS.
The delay, according to ABC, is the first-ever in the 40-year history of the Super Bowl
I am so sick of this chickenshit. every-fucking-day some little push backwards
Cladius 3rd wife Messalina has a very poor repudation.
A number of Roman historians (mainly Tacitus and Suetonius) portray her as a cruel, avaricious, foolish nymphomaniac who had many wild affairs and once challenged a notorious Roman prostitute named Scylla to an all-night sex competition. (Scylla gave up at dawn when both women had each had 25 lovers, but Messalina continued well into the morning.) She duped Claudius and manipulated him into executing those who displeased or spurned her. She is also recorded as a lover of parties and festivities as well as an enthusiastic player of court politics who sold her influence to Roman nobles and foreign notables. Her name is now used as a synonym for others with her supposed vices.
Victorian foreplay "close your eyes and think of England"
With apologies to Moonbootica and any and all who might be offended by that comment etc....
I am so sick of this chickenshit. every-fucking-day some little push backwards
It's the nanny state, and the regime is the nanny.
And really the discussion we should be having is providing affordable, safe child care for working women. Instead we are fighting battles with nitwits that were decided over thirty years ago. 68% of Americans want Roe left alone.
(insert southern state of your choice here) foreplay:
"Hey sis, you awake?"
I apologize in advance for any offense the preceding joke may have given.
Or not.
I'm sorry that you find the comparison offensive. But to me, there really is no difference. The blastocyst you refer to will, if left unmolested, most likely grow into a human being.
At what point do you deny that collection of cells its humanity?
2 cells? 8? 64? 128? Millions?
The sanctity of human life begins right from the start or it has no meaning later on.
I'll say it again, we need a sane policy of birth control and comprehensive programs to care for ALL babies no matter what their circumstance of birth.
Caligua's vices are infamous of course (tho when considering sources you have to take into account that the author might have an agenda and may of exaggerated the stores).
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
Most slaves were not living in someone else's body.
--
The only real freedom we have is the freedom to use our physical bodies as we see fit. All other freedom is a mirage without that.
Marcia Brady
Well said.
I'm utterly offended/amused by that joke...
Whereas , when the rabid little men come frothing about making remarks about scientists and women, you are not amused?
I know I'm not, except insofar as such droolers are in fact fit to be a playtoy.
a saying from Petronius did the rounds "It profits a man more to develope his penis than to develop his mind"
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Well. I'm glad i'm on the right track.
And I'm sorry our anti-abortion troll hasn't any concept of "law", which states, by majority rule, that a fetus isn't a person. That's the law, you fucking twit. And the lying hypocrites that make electoral hay by demonizing a legal medical procedure have had 5 years to do somethng about it, and haven't made a move. So STFU.
Uncle Smokes foreplay: Soap and water
[That joke was for Jocelyn Elders. ]
The problem so far with them is that what's been tried, as methods to lower the sperm count, also lowers the libido in men.
doug, *strange*
So a combination of birth control/Cialis? Huh? Huh?
I should go into marketing.
Caligua was origially quite popular because his predcessor Tiberius was loathed.
too boost his popularity he empitied the vast treasury of the penny pinching Tiberius and squanded it on games.
Caligua loved to show off and make a spectucle of himself, he would proudly show off the size of his penis and he used the games as a chance to expose himself to the crowds.
Fundie foreplay:
BOHICA
Caligua's vices are infamous of course
Calligula means Li'l Boots, doesn't it? Where else have I seen that name....?
[I wish our version would get laid. and we'd be better off with horses in our Senate. Replace Lieberman with Mr Ed. Somebody start and ActBlue page!!]
The blastocyst you refer to will, if left unmolested, most likely grow into a human being.
Wrong, which illustrates your basic ignorance of the subject matter.
Most pregnancies self abort (yes that's where the signal for this is issued from) due to some issue with it's own viability.
So a combination of birth control/Cialis? Huh? Huh?
I should go into marketing.
Marcia Brady ∞, If I remember correctly, I think the libido went to zero. The Cialis, has to amplify something that has some life.
he would proudly show off the size of his penis
Finally, the two Calligulas diverge...
I'll say it again, we need a sane policy of birth control and comprehensive programs to care for ALL babies no matter what their circumstance of birth.
hontlia
You can keep on saying it til you are blue in the face. I too advocate birth control, but I'm also old enough to know that people make mistakes, and birth control sometimes fails.
I'm also old enough to mind my own fucking business and not try to force my own personal beliefs onto others.
nitwit.
yeah Caligula means little boots.
hard to believe someone like Germanicus could of spawned someone like Caligua!
Well, this has been both uplifting and silly.
'Tis a joyful banter, but it's time for some chow.
By for now, and take care of your good selves (the bad selves seem to do just fine on their own)!
It's the nanny state, and the regime is the nanny.
masculine_monica_nyc
limited personal responsibility?
this Country needs to grow the fuck up.
I'm thinking hontlia shouldn't get an abortion if she doesn't want to.
Aggripina is my favorite Roman. I hope the HBO series gets to her.
[I wish our version would get laid. and we'd be better off with horses in our Senate. Replace Lieberman with Mr Ed. Somebody start and ActBlue page!!]
DemByDefault
They can't sneak jimmy/jeff in anymore. More's the pity for the rest of us.
Caligula with no shame flaunted his incestuous relationship with his sister Drusilla.
Caligula was often seen riding through the seedier quaters of the city of Rome with Drusilla, masturbating with one hand and throwing gold coins with the other.
No, the blastocyst, if left alone, will NOT "most likely grow into a human being." It has at least a 50% chance of being spontaneously expelled from the uterus (some scientist say a 2/3 chance, or 66%).
So the blastocyst has at best a 50-50 chance of surviving God (or nature), the most prolific abortionist of all time.
What this all comes down to is you arguing that a clump of cells with at best a 50% chance of becoming an individual human being should have rights that take precedence over the woman, who is a de facto human being with billions or trillions of cells.
If you think the rights of the unborn take precedence over the rights of people already living, you need to get to work outlawing pollution, the depletion of resources, and deficit spending. Because by your own reckoning, we are all the slaves of the not-yet-born.
And really the discussion we should be having is providing affordable, safe child care for working women.
ql, we couldn't possibly be having that discussion because we all know that women with children shouldn't be working. heavens no!
they should all be married to rick sanitarium and bring their fetuses home in a glass jar.
That's the law, you fucking twit. And the lying hypocrites that make electoral hay by demonizing a legal medical procedure have had 5 years to do somethng about it, and haven't made a move. So STFU.
ronjazz, formerly free
And always been. If I remember estate law, a fetus cannot inherit if the parent dies intestate.
Caligula was often seen riding through the seedier quaters of the city of Rome with Drusilla, masturbating with one hand and throwing gold coins with the other.
Well, Shrub would do this in some tasteful neighborhood of MacMansions and Hummers...
They can't sneak jimmy/jeff in anymore. More's the pity for the rest of us.
I'm sure they've found a young republican staffer to replace Jimmy/Jeff. He's just not as visible as the Guckert, so he's not been noticed yet.
The problem so far with them is that what's been tried, as methods to lower the sperm count, also lowers the libido in men.
doug, *strange*
If there's no one to plant the seed, there's no need to worry about a crop.
My Lord!!!! Just accept that you lost for cryin' out loud!!!! You put up your best, Al Gore then John Kerry and you lost!!!! The country knew plenty about Bush after 4 years but they choose to re-elect him. And they gave him majorities in both houses of Congress to boot. Now quit your whining and accept the fact that despite Hollyweird and the media's best attempts, mainstream America wants an America that stands for strong morals and democracy, not some socialist bs you all spew here. Most of you are way too young to understand what you're talking about, you deal in idealism when this is a time for dynamic leadership. You will see when you are older, many of us Republicans started out just like you.
p.s. Why all the name calling by Dems??? Real effective way to communicate.
Marcia Brady ∞, If I remember correctly, I think the libido went to zero. The Cialis, has to amplify something that has some life.
doug, *strange*
I'm sorry. I was kidding. I wasn't implying that I know anything about the subject.
For me, being forced to use one's body to support the life of another is slavery. You have a garden that brings you pleasure? Good. You have a field of cotton that you have no choice in working? Slavery.
A human cannot be legally forced to use his/her body to support the life or wellbeing or finances of another person.
The only real freedom we have is the freedom to use our physical bodies as we see fit. All other freedom is a mirage without that.
Marcia Brady ?
( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
I'm sure they've found a young republican staffer to replace Jimmy/Jeff. He's just not as visible as the Guckert, so he's not been noticed yet.
Are you referring to young Master Deutsch, of the previous discussion?
Caligula's reign was filled with pointless brutality, petty criminals were fed to the lions, on the grounds they were cheaper than buchers meat. After an oratory competition, he forced the losers to erase their wax tablets with their tongues, on pain of death.
I'm sure they've found a young republican staffer to replace Jimmy/Jeff. He's just not as visible as the Guckert, so he's not been noticed yet.
Sprechen die Deutsch?
And always been. If I remember estate law, a fetus cannot inherit if the parent dies intestate.
ql in ny
See, this may be usful.
hard to believe someone like Germanicus could of spawned someone like Caligua!
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Moonbotica, you very lovely, extraordinarily well-read, curious and brilliant young lady, please take note that the phrase "could of" is correctly stated as "could have". At least here in the colonies. I only raise the issue because it jars my think-bone, since I read most of your comments, and learn much.
We now return you to your Saturday Evening Feature, The History Of The Roman Empire.
It is not enough to say we believe in freedom for if we asked people if they do, I am certain the answer would be a unanimous and resounding yes. But, do they really?
This is where I differ from most others. For I believe there are very few of us who truly believe in freedom. Take the abortion question. When I consider the question of abortion it is not a question of religion or morality it becomes a simple test of freedom. Do I have the right to tell someone else what they must do? I would no more be in favor of forced abortion than I would be in prohibiting abortion. It is a question of freedom. We have to live with our own consciences and because of this I would prefer to have the individual make the decision. When I take the responsibility of deciding for someone else I limit my own freedom for I am no longer considering the individual and am instead considering something greater.
Freedom is, by necessity, a personal goal -- not a societal goal. Certainly the society can permit individual freedom but cannot demand it. Look at the way we live. If we valued freedom, why in the world would we sign on for a 30 year mortgage? It makes little sense, for the more our obligations increase the more our freedom decreases. It is a bargain we all deal with at some point. Some seek obligation and responsibility and some do not. Some of us are forced to accept reality and because of this constantly live our lives in a quandary between knowing the beauty and joy of freedom and the bourgeois feeling of knowing and accepting obligation. It always comes to a sort of weird balance scale. On one side we measure the amount of freedom we require and on the other we mount our limits to freedom. Hopefully the scales will balance -- at least tenuously. But sometimes the obligations become more important than the freedom and there is a sort of dissonance that can have an effect on the individual.
After an oratory competition, he forced the losers to erase their wax tablets with their tongues, on pain of death.
Sounds like the Jesuits.
Aggripina is my favorite Roman. I hope the HBO series gets to her.
The little slut.
I'm sorry. I was kidding. I wasn't implying that I know anything about the subject.
Marcia Brady ∞, nothing to apologize for, my libido is just fine, and without any chemical amplifiers.
I miss my wife very much, who's out of town now.
Incest was Caligua's vitium. Denying his descent from a commoner like his grandfather Agrippa, he boasted instead that his mother had been concieved from Augustus incest with his daughter Juila.
the phrase "could of" is correctly stated as "could have".
I was so happy to a Brit do that. I have suffered much condescension at the hands of Europeans.
If humans really believed in the sanctity of life, there would be no wars.
The problem so far with them is that what's been tried, as methods to lower the sperm count, also lowers the libido in men.
doug, *strange*
If there's no one to plant the seed, there's no need to worry about a crop.
Muad'Dib
Yeah, but somebody still has to pull the weeds every now and then.
--
psst tena, over here.
what's the significance of your signoff above?
don't tell anyone I asked, i don't want everyone to think i'm square.
See, this may be usful.
Marcia Brady ∞
or "useful" to those among us who can type...
( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
At what point do you deny that collection of cells its humanity?
When it's viable outside my uterus. Until then, its a parasite living off me.
Aggripina is my favorite Roman. I hope the HBO series gets to her.
The little slut.
Didn't Graves characterize her as banging the Palace Guard in some sort of contest?
Since blogger still won't load up, I'm thinking it is going to be pretty lonely around here this evening.
damn, i guess i don't care if i'm square or whatever...what's it mean...???
( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
I thought they had to do with the three stages of women's breast.
its why Claudius (a unmilitary Emperor) invaded Britain, there was no real reason to but he needed to prove he was a military man and not show weakness.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Just plug in Bush and Iraq and we've come full circle.
Caligula was often seen riding through the seedier quaters of the city of Rome with Drusilla, masturbating with one hand and throwing gold coins with the other.
Moonbootica, do you know this Titian painting?
http://www.artchive.com/
artchive..._danae.jpg.html
I can't get blogger to refresh. Is anyone else having this problem?
Now hold on a minute, I am no "troll". I have posted here before on may subjects. There's no need to be mean just because I disagree with you.
The bottom line issue is one of when a human life begins and when that life is entitled to protection under the due process clause of the Constitution.
Nobody has been able to prove one way or the other when a process I call "ensoulment" or the humanity of a baby actually begins.
Absent such proof I would prefer to take the cautious approach and treat every life as a human being no matter how young.
As for those who are critical of the notion that existing precedent can be overturned I would commend to their reading the Supreme Court decision in Brown vs. The Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas.
I realize that my opinion with respect to this issue is not popular but I feel that all life is precious and must be nurtured. Not just at the convenience of a few.
Drusilla was Caligua's favourite sister and when she died suddently at the age of 23 a large space had been left, the doctors diagnosed "a surfeit of buggery", she had just finished a marathon 24 hour session with Caligula and several well-endowed lads freshly arrived from Caesariensis (modern day Algeria).
Caligula berated the doctors for not resuscitating her, even though she was stiff and cold, he sodomised her corpse one more time and declared her a godddess.
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
it looked to me like she was going to sleep...
My Lord!!!! Just accept that you lost for cryin' out loud!!!! You put up your best, Al Gore then John Kerry and you lost!!!!
Now HERE'S someone who knows history, to the extent he lives in the past.
Grow up.
Wingnut FEAR alert! People talking about freedom! People pointing out Little Boots' inability to speak a full sentence! People wondering why the administration has so much trouble following the law! Wingnuts, get on the case justifying stolen elections, lying to Congress, and mass murder! Whatever you do, even if you're a fake Texan, don't go fight the enemy! Stay here in your comfy chair and yell at patriots from the sidelines, that'll show them!
TCB, FOAD. Worthless sack of pigshit.
I can't get blogger to refresh. Is anyone else having this problem?
Yep.
Blogger is bloggered.
HaloScam seems to be working but blogger is not. And Jason and the Argonauts set to begin in forty minutes too.
I can't get blogger to refresh. Is anyone else having this problem?
mer
Blogger's buggered.
Again.
they should all be married to rick sanitarium and bring their fetuses home in a glass jar.
her eyes
I think if we can keep our children in glass jars until they're able to support themselves, all these issues are automatically solve.
Ipso fatso. (/Bart)
It is a question of freedom. We have to live with our own consciences and because of this I would prefer to have the individual make the decision. When I take the responsibility of deciding for someone else I limit my own freedom for I am no longer considering the individual and am instead considering something greater.
DWD - I think most of us feel just this way, but no one else could put it so beautifully.
That is what this is about. Just this and nothing more. Are we going to the Mullah model of society - with a social conscience? Or are we going to follow the vision of our founders - that conscience is an individual matter?
I can't get blogger to refresh. Is anyone else having this problem?
mer
yes.
At what point do you deny that collection of cells its humanity?
Until it can breathe on its own.
When the air goes in, the life goes in with it .
When the air ceases to go in, the life goes out.
End of story.
When it's viable outside my uterus. Until then, its a parasite living off me.
One interesting advance in medical science is how far they've extended the viability of neonate births with the assist of life support. If I remember the number correctly, it's approaching 6 months, if every thing works out well, though it does not in many cases. Many of the premies, are such because of some basic problem with them, that had nothing to do with the mother, what she did or her state of health and nutrition.
(neo-nat life support machinery was one thing I used to do.)
"Since blogger still won't load up, I'm thinking it is going to be pretty lonely around here this evening."
--ql in ny
Maybe this could be the first 3,000 comment thread!
I can't get it to work either.
Muad'Dib that would be Cladius 3rd wife Messalina', she competed with a Roman prositute called Scylla in an all night sex compeition (Scylla gave up at dawn when both women had each had 25 lovers, but Messalina continued well into the morning)
all life is precious and must be nurtured
And women's lives are at the least-valued end of your continuum of concern.
Gee, I thought we'd been rather polite. It's just that when you start imposing your views on my body, I kind of resent it.
nitwit.
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Makes perfect sense if you believe you're a god.
hontlia,
Okay, then consider this suppostion:
Resolved: no child may be brought to term unless the parents can prove that they will be effective parents and have the necessary means and temperment to raise child. Otherwise the fetus must be aborted.
You would not like this antithesis, eh?
Think, please: it is not too hard and you may enjoy the process.
her eyes - ( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
the equivalent in Japanese smileys of "I bow in your general direction", or, "that was a great comment and I agree", or "Word."
I realize that my opinion with respect to this issue is not popular but I feel that all life is precious and must be nurtured. Not just at the convenience of a few.
hontlia
hontlia, I believe that life begins before conception. Yet I still support abortion on demand. If you had seen the ways that life has been treated that I have seen, abortion would be the least of your concerns.
hontlia, your opinion is worthless, since you don't seem to understand the LAW. If gawd gave everyone a "Soul" upon conception, then She would probably not abort 50% of pregnancies Herself. Your opinion is based on ignorance and fear, and your dismissal of the rights of the "few" confer trollness upon you. It's not unlike Our Leaders regretting "collateral damage".
Can't refresh here either. For the last 1/2 hour at least.
after the death of Drusilla, Caligula took his two suriving sisters, Agrippina and Livilla as lovers - even tho it was said that he did not love them as much as he had loved Drusilla and that he prostitued them to his catamites.
...when this is a time for dynamic leadership.
hey chilibeant,
Why did bush refuse to testy under oath and insist cheney accompany him in front of the republican controlled 9/11 commission?
more moral or dynamic?
Tena (blushing) thanks.
If you are interested, that is an excerpt from my book Declaration and Testament. The entire thing is filled with stuff like that. (no publisher though)
Muad'Dib that would be Cladius 3rd wife Messalina', she competed with a Roman prositute called Scylla in an all night sex compeition (Scylla gave up at dawn when both women had each had 25 lovers, but Messalina continued well into the morning)
Thanks Moon, that's right. I always admired her her victory over a skilled professional. Shows you can accomplish most anything if you set your mind to it.
Caligula took his two suriving sisters, Agrippina and Livilla as lovers - Caligula took his two suriving sisters, Agrippina and Livilla as lovers -
And that Agrippina was Nero's mother?
One interesting advance in medical science is how far they've extended the viability of neonate births with the assist of life support. If I remember the number correctly, it's approaching 6 months
Yep. 26 weeks is about the earliest premature birth they can feasibly save without having brain stem issues. They have to often be put on assisted breathing machines (EKMO?). I think the smallest they have saved are about one pound (they actually measure in grams).
An interesting aside, girls are usually much more fighters to live than boys.
Tena, you never answered our questions.
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
I'm having a hard time believing that this didn't work...
The main page just refreshed for me.
I realize that my opinion with respect to this issue is not popular but I feel that all life is precious and must be nurtured. Not just at the convenience of a few.
hontlia
You insist upon your own goddamned definition of "life" - that's just for starters.
You can't impose your fucking frame of reference on the discussion and then get pissed when you are called on it. You presume way too much.
Tena--wow! teh kewl!
but because of my fascination with eyes, i thought you might nodding off, and i thought marcia's comment was a good one!
When he married his sisters off, he attended the wedding and then he took them back to his house, warning their new husbands "not to take liberties with my wife". He also openly had sex with then in front of their husbands. Later he banished them.
QL, yes she did.
"her eyes - ( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
the equivalent in Japanese smileys of "I bow in your general direction", or, "that was a great comment and I agree", or "Word."
Tena"
An interesting aside, girls are usually much more fighters to live than boys.
chris/tx
It has to do with the surfactants in the lungs. If you have a preemie, hope for a girl.
DemByDefault yep the very same one
The main page just refreshed for me.
DemByDefault
Any new posts?
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
I'm having a hard time believing that this didn't work...
Marcia Brady ∞
Got some ashes?
When the air goes in, the life goes in with it .
When the air ceases to go in, the life goes out.
End of story.
Rage Time
WORD! How elegant...
I'm having a hard time believing that this didn't work...
Marcia Brady ∞
Got some ashes?
Can I watch?
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Talk about getting your ashes hauled!
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Talk about getting your ashes hauled!
Blogger is on the wacky tabaccy tonight.
"niece and wife of Claudius"...so they had a healthy thing going.
Next time somebody talks to me about the 2000 year old sacred tradition of marriage, I'm going to go all Classical and Cesarian on their ass
(EKMO?).
ECMO
Extracorporeal Membrane oxygenation.
Very like a heart lung machine used in heart surgeries,butECMO is used forlonger periodsof time. The blood leaves the body through a cannula,is run through a semipermeable membrane, cleansed ,oxygenated and pumped back into the body.
Very, very, very icky.
Any new posts?
Nope, and now it won't load again.
I'm having a hard time believing that this didn't work...
Marcia Brady ∞
Got some ashes?
Can I watch?
Mind if I contribute?
Caligua ate and drank to excess and had sex with any man or woman who took his fancy. None dared refuse him. He would then publicly recount in detail the performance of his lover. He counted the beautiful pantomine actor, Marcus Lepidus Mnester, among his gave lovers and kissed him in public, even - scanalously - in the theatre. He also had an affair with his own brother-in-law and hostages were forced to have sex with him.
When the air ceases to go in, the life goes out.
Does assisted ventilation count?
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Talk about getting your ashes hauled!
Bravo!! Bravissimo!!
Said with a cheesy Italian accent.
(or Brava, as the case may be...)
Tena, you never answered our questions.
ql in ny
I must not have seen your questions - I've been here and gone again all day -
Care to re-ask?
Caligula's passion for Pyrallis, a common prostitue, was even more notorious. And there was no women of rank with whom he did not make free. He would invite a bunch of senators to dinner and would assess their wives as though he was purchasing a slave. If any dropped her head modestly, he would reach out and lift it again. Some were sent divorce papers in the name of their husbands, which were then filed in the public records.
About 30+ minutes ago I couldn't use http://atrios.blogspot.com/ to get back here. I played thru multiple site urls and finally go here. While scrolling up I noticed someone else having the same issue. Is there an east coast issue or serve/hub issue?
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W For Wanker Bush on 9/11, and during Katrina, not to mention the successful taking down of Al Qaeda and Osama, and his very strong stance against the oil producers' price gouging, where he "jawboned" them to make sure that, for instance, ExxonMobil kept their profits for last year to below 40 billions.
Some dynamic fucking leadership. Let them successfully attack us, then let them get away, then pay them for it. Very nice. TCB, I have to admit it, you may be even less intelligent than Chimpy McCokespoon.
i think i am having troubles as well refreshing blogger.
i think all the problems with halosuck and blogger today are the repukes attempt to silence the one true voice left, that of the online news.
and it is failing miserably, like everything else they've tried...
Ok - We all square on Q & A?
My dinner has arrived and none too soon. Caligula is beginning to make me queasy.
Night bats. Let's hope blogger fixes itself.
i think talking about the emperors sex lives has scared off the trolls!
Caligula's passion ...
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Now was it Caligula that did the big wife-swapping party with the Roman hoity-toity, which pretty much pushed them over the edge?
Muad'Dib yep!
i think talking about the emperors sex lives has scared off the trolls!
Well, you did convince me my sex life has been rather tame compared to Caligula.
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W
that troll's turned tail. the question about needing cheney at hearings is like vaginas to them-
shall I move onto Chimpy's other model - Nero?
mmmmm. vaginas!
Tena--
you are a goddess, and you rock, imho.
shall I move onto Chimpy's other model - Nero?
Moonbootica
Please do!
Now was it Caligula that did the big wife-swapping party with the Roman hoity-toity, which pretty much pushed them over the edge?
One of the patricians wound up with Kevin Kline instead of Sigourney Weaver, and they decided Li'l Boots had to go.
I'm now picturing the Bush admiinistration at a key party. Loser get Lynn Cheney. By definition.
What about this blogger...just came on about an hour ago.
If I'm not mistaken, I would say we're experiencing a denial of service attack...someone hitting this site faster than it can acknowledge which slows it down to a point where its totally useless.
Here is my final thought on abortion, so after this, all controversy should reasonably cease.
There was a man in Texas, I believe, some years ago who was sued by the mother of his son (10-yrs-old) to be tested as a kidney donor or bone marrow donor or something like that. He refused. The courts sided with the father's choice to use his body as he saw fit, even to the detriment of a child he produced.
Do I think he should have provided anything to help his son live? Of course. Would I offer my own heart as a transplant to either of my daughters, both biological or adopted? No question.
Should there be a law requiring me to use my body to support the life of another human? Absolutely not.
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W
In terms of masturbating into the ashes of his presidency in vainglorious effort to revive it?
I'm now picturing the Bush admiinistration at a key party. Loser get Lynn Cheney. By definition.
Or Liddy Dole and a gerbil.
I'm now picturing the Bush admiinistration at a key party. Loser get Lynn Cheney. By definition.
Or Liddy Dole and a gerbil.
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W
In terms of masturbating into the ashes of his presidency in vainglorious effort to revive it?
There's a great blooper reel at C&L
cont. with tales of Caligula....
his behaviour became increasingly inhuman, he would close the graneries so that the people would go hungry or he would scatter free tickets among the crowds, causing stampedes in which many people died. He put on contests between mangy beasts and people who were cripple and infirm. When one contestant complained he had their tongue cut out before being made to return back to the arena.
I must not have seen your questions - I've been here and gone again all day -
Care to re-ask?
Tena
Should the proper term be "manimal" or "animan"?
What about this blogger...just came on about an hour ago.
anonymous,
It's been on and off squirrely since yesterday.
If I'm not mistaken, I would say we're experiencing a denial of service attack
Wondered about that given the topic.
Mind if I contribute?
Muad'Dib
I'll need a resume...
Who runs blogger? Do I need to contribute some dollars to blogger so it can function correctly?
This is icky.
I would say we're experiencing a denial of service attack...
It's all the blogger sites, though. Mine is having trouble too.
I worry about my dozen of fans.
her eyes - oh my.
thanks
The anagram of blogger is National Security Administration.
Probably.
It's been on and off squirrely since yesterday.
digby's out too- freeperville loads instantly though
bebe rebozo: Or Liddy Dole and a gerbil.
Would it be a faux pas to simply request the gerbil?
.
Wow. I have to admit to being taken aback by the viciousness of the attacks on me simply because I advocate the caring option.
I have yet to see a reasonable argument against the notion that ensoulment (and thus humanity and, therefore Constitutional protection) begins at conception.
Those that point out that as many as 50% of blastocysts self-abort as a reason why very young life is unworthy of protection ignore the proposition that all life is fragile and can die for any number of reasons.
Earthquakes, hurricanes and tsunamis also claim lives, apparently at random. The logical extension of the arguments of the pro-abortion advocates is that those lives were for some reason not worth preserving.
What a lack of compassion!
Should there be a law requiring me to use my body to support the life of another human? Absolutely not
What bums me out totally is the gutting of basic research and education (or what was that 40billiong reduction in education and other entitlements about?) of all kinds.
A clearer understanding of human reproduction, could make much of this debate moot, but the fundies don't want that.
Even being sure that teenagers had a basic working knowledge of how pregnancy happens and what to do so that it does not is anathema to them.
Imagine the screams if a "health" class had a model of a womans anatomy so that the guys would know how to place a diaphram accurately. (all young guys should know about this and other birth control methods.)
right thats enuff about Caligula - you get the idea
now onto Nero the last of the Julio-Claudian dynasty.
now Nero did not stand a chance of developing as a normal human being. His father Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus was renown to brutality (the gens Domitia had produced many Generals over the years), and he was no exception. Augustus actually had to reprimand him for the bloodthirsty games he put on and prosecuted him. He ran over a child on the Appian Way for fun, killed one of his freedmen for not drinking as much as he was told and ripped out another man's eye in the Forum.
Sounds like a server/software issue...perhaps a microsoft server upgrade that still had a few kinks to be ironed out. it's not only this url, Edicine, Hecate, and a few others I tried had the same issue, server resetting itself before the page loaded. Sounds like they are all using the same ISP or something of a similiar nature.
I got the main page to open, no new posts.
Tried again and it's FUBARed.
cont. with tales of Caligula....
his behaviour became increasingly inhuman
The interesting thing about the Romans, and other civilizations too, was the ease with which harsh injury was inflicted on others.
Does assisted ventilation count?
Yes, I woud say so. Many preemies would not be able to sustain themselves without a vent or ECMO. They try to breathe, the stimulus to breathe is there but the muscle strength to maintain respiration and the volume of air they are able to move is insufficient to life. They are humans who need life support. My opinion.
But a blastocyte is not. It is not breathing for itself, and it can not breathe for itself.
The fact remains that when a person expires, it literally means he has ceased to respire or breathe.
What a lack of compassion!
Indeed. Your lack of empathy is rather startling.
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W
In terms of masturbating into the ashes of his presidency in vainglorious effort to revive it?
Imagine a Bush motorcade where protesters were masturbating on it from the tops of buildings?
His handlers would have to tell him it was snowing.
Mind if I contribute?
Muad'Dib
I'll need a resume...
Marcia Brady ∞
Where should I send it?
Imagine the screams if a "health" class had a model of a womans anatomy so that the guys would know how to place a diaphram accurately. (all young guys should know about this and other birth control methods.)
doug, *strange*
In my daughter's health class, she saw a picture of a penis she said looked like a potato with eyes -- from venereal warts.
I'm pretty sure she'll be entering a convent.
"viciousness of the attacks on me simply because I advocate the caring option."
But nasty, condescending passive aggression is okay in your book...
I just don't respond well to emotional arguments, and your comparison of the abortion question to slavery was stupid and offensive.
Under Tiberius he was charged with treason, adultery and incest with his sister - and was only spared due to the accession of the like minded Caligula. Fortunately Ahenobarbus died when Nero was three, leaving the child to learn everything he needed to know about murder, cruelty and sexual peversion from his wicked mother.
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
let me ask you about compassion, how do you "nuture" the life of a 90 year old cancer patient who begs you everyday to let her die because the pain is unbearable?
hontlia,
[]:::::::: You have just been sprayed with Troll-Be-Gone.
I asked a legitimate question: You failed to answer instead descending into a diatribe of self-pity. If you will not answer questions or consider, then fuck you.
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
Forcing a rape victim to bring her attacker's child to term is VERY compassionate.
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
Forcing a rape victim to bring her attacker's child to term is VERY compassionate.
Rage Time --
That was actually a part of my sermon of the Feast of the Baptism of our Lord -- the breath is the Spirit of life -- that Baptism is our new birth into Christ -- I didn't come right out and say, "So abortion is okay, get it?" -- I expect a certain level of sophistication from our congregations (we are Episcopalians after all)
Tena -- I suspected that was the meaning of your caligraphy, but was assuming everybody knew but me (frequently the case)
Muad'Dib its not suprising the Romans were about violence and sex.
the history of Rome began with a famous rape - the rape of the Sabine women.
cont. with tales of Caligula....
his behaviour became increasingly inhuman
The interesting thing about the Romans, and other civilizations too, was the ease with which harsh injury was inflicted on others.
The tales of debauchery are more interesting. Let's hear more Messalina stories Moon.
then fuck you.
Whooo, DWD, is a much more gentle person then me and many others. You've screwed up big time to have that honor.
the history of Rome began with a famous rape - the rape of the Sabine women.
Yes, but that had more to do with geo-politics as I recall, and as you point out led to the formation of the greatest of early western civilzations. Our legal system does have its origin in ancient Rome, does it not?
Prior,
Pneuma
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
I have already said that I would gladly give up my life to save either of my children. I may even be willing to give up my life or wellbeing to save your children.
But I don't believe that there should be a law requiring me to do so.
I'm done now.
Doug,
What makes America so different is its religious view of sex. Here in Europe, it's nothing. You see it every day in print and on the TV. Not in your face sex, but the appearance of sexual pleasure and fantasy are played out in all sorts of advertising. Hell, if you go the the public swimming pool, everyone strips to the buff and puts on their bathing suits in public..no modesty allowed.
If one can't get past the sight of a naked body of the opposite sex in public then the society's view on abortion will be a roller-coaster ride.
hontlia | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 6:49
Why don't you go have a baby and take care of it? Wish you well. I don't see anyone here trying to stop you.
Messalina was very young when she married Claudius (she was 17, he was 4 and she proved too hot to handle. She had an over-active libido
She was so horny, that at night she would visit Rome's brothels and hire herself out as a whore.
Even that did not sastify her and it was said she sent out scouts to find "men capable of assuaging her instiable lubricity", but in the end none really could sastify her.
Ummm. Romulus and Remus? (I love mythology, you know?)
(I still cannot believe I made a perfectly good Audhumla joke the other day and no one laughed. )
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
what
ever.
Told you - the troll lives behind the Xian curtain - she is in purdah from the truth.
Rage Time --
Ruach
I feel shame for my lack of compassion.
Messalina was not the only high-born woman to hire herself out as a whore.
Many Roman matrons found it a creative way to get round the strict laws on adultery, which forbid them to have sex with with anyone except their husbands, getting caught would result in loss of property.
Suetonius said "Married women from well known families were escaping punishment for their adulteries by renouching the priveleges of their rank in society"
Half Fastskier--where in europe are you?
I have already said that I would gladly give up my life to save either of my children. I may even be willing to give up my life or wellbeing to save your children.
But I don't believe that there should be a law requiring me to do so.
I'm done now.
Marcia Brady ∞
Fortunately, you don't have to today. Now let's pay attention to Moon because she's a veritable wellspring of important information.
(So where do I send my resume?)
Marcia Brady, very astute. I have always compared mandatory pregnancy-completion to the Lack of a Duty to enable another's survival by, say, kidney donation. When we make it a law that anyone who has two kidneys is required to donate one to anyone who needs it, then mandatory pregnancy-completion makes at least some sense. But I certainly don't want that. (although I have always made my intent to be an organ donor, either after death or if anyone needs my living organ, perfectly clear to family and the DMV).
Another little point on respiration. When I was in Brazil 35 years ago and birth control was absolutely forbidden in that RC country, I was told that there were certain midwives who would, upon request, close the legs of the birthing mother so that the baby would never draw breath and thus be stillborn, with no guilt or penalty to the mother. Kind of crude as an abortifacient, but acceptable there and in that time. There probably were herbal abortifacients, etc., but I didn't get to hear about them.
Marcia Brady,
I agree with your point of view. No one has trhe right to determine what you can or cannot do with your own body regardless of the circumstances...you own it.
If the individual did not have that exclusive right, then a panel of Judges could decide that you must donate a specific organ to save the life of another regardless of your own personal view on the matter. People are not organ farms to be harvested because someone is in need.
Debating this here is a waste. Atrios is not smart on this. It's all vaguely defined demogogery.
You might as well debate drinking or sex. Without any clearer definitions all these arguments are BS.
hontlia, your silly "ensoulment" argument is based on your opinion that god exists. Those who disagree with that premise are necessarily having a difficult time with your followup. Besides the fact that it's a totally emotional take, irrationally so in my opinion, it (I repeat) has nothing to do with the law. I oppose the death penalty, I consider war and violence evidence of great failure, and I consider humans who can condone the violent taking of a life for any reason to be far behind on the evolutionary trail. I honor life, even unto the animals (I eat no meat). And yet, i fully support a woman's right to choose abortion on demand. Why? Because i'm a reasonable, fully-evolved human who understands that a fetus is a potential human at best. A mother is a fully-realized human. In all cases, human feti that survive to birth do so at the choice of the mother. Be thankful, even in your unenlightened state.
Human life is way overrated.
her eyes,
at the moment, Germany...soon to be off to Italy. where are you?
Messalina was very young when she married Claudius (she was 17, he was 4 and she proved too hot to handle. She had an over-active libido
First, you give good history Moon.
Next, consider the plight of poor Messalina. She's just flowering and look what she's stuck with, a stammering cripple who just happens to be emperor. What young girl riding the crest of Roman society would be satisfied with that, particularly once she grew into a woman, with a woman's needs?
Messalina had one goal in life and that was to ensure her son would be put on the throne.
so she began bumping off the potential rivals.
first she had Caligula's sister Livilla killed. Next she denouched Julia, the daughter of Tiberius dead son Drusus for immorality. A bonus was destroying the repduation of the prefect of the Praetorian Guard, who was about to tell Claudius about what she got up too at night, this had another postive development for her because it left a position to be filled by one of her lovers, therefore strengthening her position even more.
she sent out scouts to find "men capable of assuaging her instiable lubricity", but in the end none really could sastify her.
See, there's probably something else going on there.
her eyes,
at the moment, Germany...soon to be off to Italy. where are you?
Half FastSkier | 02.04.06 - 7:07 pm | #
i'm in central ma, and quite jealous of you right now..
she sent out scouts to find "men capable of assuaging her instiable lubricity", but in the end none really could sastify her.
I don't understand. Was she 30w40?
Messalina was not the only high-born woman to hire herself out as a whore.
Many Roman matrons found it a creative way to get round the strict laws on adultery, which forbid them to have sex with with anyone except their husbands, getting caught would result in loss of property.
Girls just wanna have fun.
Interesting about the gladiators though. Again, the well born women of Rome would patronize the gladiators for favors, although there was more to it than just the sex. There always is.
Interesting about the gladiators though. Again, the well born women of Rome would patronize the gladiators for favors, although there was more to it than just the sex. There always is.
Gladiators were good listeners.
Interesting about the gladiators though. Again, the well born women of Rome would patronize the gladiators for favors, although there was more to it than just the sex. There always is.
Gladiators were good listeners.
Jeez, who kidnapped chucky and made him come here? Believe it or not, chuck, you're free to go.
her eyes,
Yeah, I'm off to Italy once I get my paperwork straighten out and my work visa. Gonna be near Venice in a small rural area at the foothills of the Italian Alps. Life is hard, but I'm up to the task.
Abortion, by definition, IS an emotional issue. If you can't respond to my arguments in an adult and analytical way, that is not my problem.
Thank the Goddess. It's as if Blogger left me all alone on an island away from my pipple. How weird is that?
OK -- I'm late for recreation, so I'm off & then to Compline, then I'll check back in -- please get blogger fixed while I'm out
While Claudius was busy in Britain, Messalina contiued her affairs.
However not all fell to her charm, the imperious Appian Silanus rejected her, so when Cladius got back she took her revenge with one of his freedmen Narcissus.
Claudius later informed the senate that Narcissus had burst into his room and told him he had had a dream that Silanus was plotting to murder him. th dream was presented as prima facie aganist him.
Messalina sent a message to Silanus summoning him to meet the emperor, then told Claudius that she had dreamt about Silanus assassniated him several nights in a row, then omg! Silanus turned up in the middle of the night. Case closed, he was arrested and executed.
ooops.
i b'lieve bloggers bloggered again...
Gonna be near Venice in a small rural area at the foothills of the Italian Alps. Life is hard, but I'm up to the task.
oh, how lovely for you...
do you speak many languages?
Gladiators were good listeners.
spinoza
My thinking too.
Hecate,
I tried to get to your site earlier nd got a no response...hope you get a rebate for the time loss.
What do you call a smiling Roman with pubic hair in his teeth?
Gladiator.
Where does it say that the definition of abortion is emotional? You're again being irrational. And now you've added troll projection.
A shame, really. You want the law to force everybody to think like you, while I would like humans to lawfully be free to make their own decisions. How childish of me.
I think Blogger is on drugs. I have no other explanation. Must have been my amazing post on why we don't really have a volunteer Army.
So Moon, she must have had something going for her. You think? I mean it never pays to screw around with the emperor's wife, particularly when it's the Roman emporer.
her eyes,
barely. it's easy to catch on what people are saying, if they don't get too excited. everyone speaks english nowaday in europe.
once in Italy, i'll have lots of time to kick back and catch up. need to relearn my italian, french and german. that rosetta stone language software is suppose to be the best and i have a language tutor set up to re-introduce me back into italian culture once i get down there.
Messalina could neither curb her ambition or sexual appetite, still in her mid-20s and married to a man in his late 50s, she fell for the handsome and young consul-designate Gaius Suilius.
While Claudius was in Ostia, she married Silius in a Bacchic ceremony.
it all ended in tears, Clauidus was informed of her bad behaviour by Narcissus and well she ended up being stabbed to death.
Repost your volunteer army post if you can, please, Hecate. I like it when you carry on.
Hecate,
you don't think its a denial of service attack?
What do you call a smiling Roman with pubic hair in his teeth?
Gladiator.
Central Scrutinizer
No comment.
Muad'Dib well she was sex crazed and married to a older man which was combined with a burning ambition.
it is not suprising what she did and how she ended up well dead.
ooops.
i b'lieve bloggers bloggered again...
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka
I believe you may be right. Although we can have a party here, but I'm out of red wine.
BTW, what is the "aka" for?
here probably were herbal abortifacients,
Of course there are.
"Must have been my amazing post on why we don't really have a volunteer Army."
--Hecate Malificent
Blogger is bogged. I went to clean up the kitchen, looking for a refresh when I returned.
Hopefully, it's not permanent.
perhaps blogger needs to get laid or something?
No comment.
Muad'Dib
None neccesary.
best of luck to you Half FastSkier!
i love other languages and regret i didn't learn more of them. when you are young is the time to do it. but heck, i may just take a class in something this summer, if i can find something interesting close by.
mainpage just reloaded, but noo new posts.
mainpage just reloaded, but noo new posts.
Abortion, by definition, IS an emotional issue. If you can't respond to my arguments in an adult and analytical way, that is not my problem.
hontlia
I feel like hontlia is ignoring me. I'm sure I'm just being emotional, though.
it's 1:18 am here. nite all
you don't think its a denial of service attack?
If it is, then it's against blogspot.
I've ran several tests on random blogspot sites and eventually it comes back with that xyz.blogspot.com site not being avalible.
Perhaps I should take this opportunity to go buy beer.
While Claudius was in Ostia, she married Silius in a Bacchic ceremony.
Before we bid adieu to fair Messalina, can you offer some background on just what a Bacchic ceremony might have entailed?
The Romans. See, you should only be able to get away with that stuff in a dictatorship. The biggest dif between those folks and today's pretenders of the GOP is that our current overlords seem to hate fun, especially ours. Georgie only throws games that involve him inconveniencing the US military for a couple of days so he can land on a carrier to lie. His reaction to the Dems standing O on SS was to let them know that "entitlements" were on the table, like a cheap capo hood.
Give me the Romans any day. Where would we be without Italians, and, on the other hand, how did we get stuck wth these bleach-white waspy sociopaths?
here probably were herbal abortifacients,
Of course there are.
Hecate Malificent
And there still are. The internets can be a wonderful source of dissemination of information, if you get my meaning.
I kept getting messages stating that the page requested was re-written as it was loading.
whatever.
good nite all.
it's 1:18 am here. nite all
Half FastSkier
I want to be where you are, or thereabouts.
Muad'Dib a Bacchic ceremony invovles lots of orgies and wine basically.
tho its not the same as the Bacchanalia., which was only attended by women on three days in the year at the he grove of Simila near the Aventine Hill.
well gang, i've enjoyed this tremendously, but i must get ready for my long night of sleeplessness, although i'm going to try Woody's recipe of focusing on relaxing different body parts tonight, and see if that helps...
night all!
remember: if it ain't broke, a repuke hasn't been near it yet.
Perhaps I should take this opportunity to go buy beer.
Marcia Brady ∞
Grab some rubbers while you're there, this could be a long night.
Prior-
Ruach/Pneuma
I'm afraid my southern mediterranean roots are showing.
IMO, pneuma is among the most glorious of words
well its only 12:25 am here in Great Britain.
Where would we be without Italians
Donegal?