I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Is switchgrass icky?
tadaAAAAAA!
Third?
Saletan's a boogerhead.
I'm too headachy to come up with more than that.
Check out a blog we link on our "News Blogs" page, Abortion Clinic Days.
A boogerhead is pretty icky.
IMPEACH BUSH
Having Saletan use you to support his arguments is icky.
Figging.
Icky?
"Republicans" is just a theory...
I'd have to say most medical procedures occuring anywhere in the "south end" are pretty icky.
If there was a Simpsons episode on abortions. miscarriages and D&Cs , would it be called "Icky and Scratchy"?
yeah ,icky, not, whatever- who's the babe on the right?
also try
Susie Bright
Wow. I believe that I have delivered that exact "abortion is good" rant on several occasions! Great minds traveling in the same direction.
Iraqmire is icky, too.
who's the babe on the right?
That's Edward R. Murrow
Saletan's a boogerhead.
I'm too headachy to come up with more than that
I think it's enough: Accurate, Brief, and Clear. ABC.
If there was a Simpsons episode on abortions. miscarriages and D&Cs , would it be called "Icky and Scratchy"?
spinoza
Actually, one episode briefly mentioned a Krusty Home Pregnancy Test with a disclaimer "May Cause Birth Defects".
hecate,
yes, I'd thought I'd heard it before.
yeah ,icky, not, whatever- who's the babe on the right?
Lil' Liberal Girl there ain't icky, even if I STILL get nervous looking at her.
"Icky"?
"Icky"?
We're talking about people's lives and the word is "icky"?
Wow. I believe that I have delivered that exact "abortion is good" rant on several occasions! Great minds traveling in the same direction.
Hecate-I thought of you when I read it. But you are a better writer. A Struck & White kind of wiccan.
We're talking about people's lives and the word is "icky"?
That's those deep intellectual wingnut arguements for you.
That's Edward R. Murrow
spinoza
really, well he's smokin'
A-fucking-men, Katha.
Hello, Hello anybody there? Does this thing work?
Think we can get George Deutsch at NASA to put out a memo on this icky thing being about religion, not science?
Saletan using Atrios' comments out of context ees "Eecky".
No to mention thees: "Nobody else seems to talk this way, so let me be the one to say it: Legal abortion is a good thing, and not just because it prevents illegal operations."
Nobody talks thees way? Where the fuck have joo been, wanker?
so.
And yet, my anger at holding this conversation, hearing these arguments, clicking thru these statements in the year 2006 is absolutely overwhelming.
The last paragraph is beautiful. And I believe life begins at conception. Hell, before conception.
Life is a big concept and encompasses a lot.
For those of us without moral certainty on the status of a fetus, an abortion is always regretable.
its a personal choice, but since I can't say for sure whether a fetus is a human life or not, I would prefer the decision were never made to terminate a pregnancy.
I'm too headachy to come up with more than that.
watertiger
Yeah, what the fuck is going on? I usually love this kind of weather, but right now I feel like jumping off the roof.
atrios had a lot of words stored up!
Captain first to flee sunk ferry
I would hunt this clown down and get to bin Laden later.
Bloggers are icky.
Bloggers are icky.
Lots of so-called icky stuff out there. Plastic surgery is icky. Penile implants: icky. Pap smears : icky. Chemotherapy: icky. Pierced tongues, nipples, and penises: kinda icky in my opinion. Baby poop: icky. Baby spit-up: icky. SUVs: icky. Killing wild animans for sport: icky. McMansions: definitely icky.
Do we run around announcing that all of these things should be "safe, legal, and rare"? I don't think so.
Reptiles are Icke.
Abortion. Oh, that's a paddlin'.
For those of us without moral certainty on the status of a fetus, an abortion is always regretable.
Christ, I'm a frickin' guy -
-wait a minute- *checks*
-yeah, a frickin' GUY and I know it's a damn tough decision that should be left to the person responsible for carrying/not carrying the whatever you want to call it. Is that so hard to understand?
Killing wild animans for sport: icky. McMansions: definitely icky.
Hecate Malificent
I know "animans" is a typo, but I nominate it for the replacement and/or adjunct to "manimal."
I'd outlaw fertility drugs before abortion, at least which ever one it is that creates those tragic human litters that Katie Couric likes to get her picture took with.
Before Dennis Miller went nuts, he had a good take on abortion: One cock=no vote.
Abortion. Oh, that's a paddlin'.
Dribnif
Doing the naughty without a ring on your finger. You'd better believe that's a paddlin'.
Is Abortion Icky? I think that expresses rather well how lots of people feel about abortion: They may not find it immoral or want to see it made illegal, but it disturbs them. It just seems like a bad thing. ("Icky" is an interesting word choice too—that messy female body!).
Oh, si, Atrios' use of thees word een a tongue-een-cheek way, ees says so much...
Lord Saletan, we salute joo, our half inflated dark lord.
so.
those tragic human litters that Katie Couric likes to get her picture took with
My bet is they're mostly Mormon.
Mormons breed like frickin' rabbits. (And their sons all have this weird pasty doughy yet thin look to them.)
In fact, that whole moist, sticky female body, that goes around leaking blood and milk and vaginal fluid and babies and orgasms and Goddess knows what: totally icky according to Aquinas and his buds. Not nearly as "governable" as a male body.
this guy is icky http://www.bushisantichrist.com/ - abortion is just a difficult choice
Captain first to flee sunk ferry
Pussy Captains are icky.
Although, to be fair, the saying is "women and children first...to drown."
i drive by a planned parenthood clinic every day. you know who is out there marching up and down holding the cross over their heads?
a bunch of old men that's who.
men who have never ever been pregnant, have never known what it's like, and never will.
protest is a wonderful thing, very american. protest all you want.
but having never been in my shoes, don't make moral judgments for me.
Getting an abortion in the Haloscan canoe. That's a major paddlin'.
I'd outlaw sex.
Given what happened in the Twenties during Prohibition, just imagine the wild orgies that would ensue.
Notice that whatever the "culture of life" crowd touches turns to bloody brutality.
Hecate - you had me at 'moist'.
men having any say so at all over a woman's body is icky.
just like my grammar and spelling and sentence structure.
icky.
My bet is they're mostly Mormon.
Mormons breed like frickin' rabbits
Having been raised Catholic, I can't judge the Mormons. I have a good friend who's a Mormon, and I can honestly say I've never met a Mormon who wasn't very nice.
But he did take me to the Mormon I-Max movie in Salt Lake, that was weird, when the movie was over we were the only ones who weren't crying.
And yet, my anger at holding this conversation, hearing these arguments, clicking thru these statements in the year 2006 is absolutely overwhelming.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar
==
I absolutely agree with you on this. Why should we be obligated to convince people who will not be convinced. Get over it, primitives. We had the argument, it got settled. Catch up before you shoot off your big mouths.
I'd outlaw sex.
Given what happened in the Twenties during Prohibition, just imagine the wild orgies that would ensue.
Cool! Then I'd finally get laid...
Outrage is a word that is supposed to describe the upper limits of credulity. Hell we passed outrageous so long ago it seems a distant memory. Every day we are treated to the decline of our country and culture at the hands of these assholes. Honestly, is there a word beyond outrage that works. We could do modiers I suppose: Incredible outrage is strong - but nearly strong enough for these fools.
Basically, anything that could be shown on Discovery Health network is icky.
Except brain surgery. That's like a McDonald's commercial for me.
.
Mormons breed like frickin' rabbits
They eat their own poop, too.
Given what happened in the Twenties during Prohibition, just imagine the wild orgies that would ensue.
Cool! Then I'd finally get laid...
Well, it would add new meaning to an Feds called The Untouchables
Not outrage but blind rage, DWD.
Mormons breed like frickin' rabbits. (And their sons all have this weird pasty doughy yet thin look to them.)
Pere Ubu
To be fair (and god knows I'm all about being fair), my daughter saw a hot Morman proselytizing the other day. It really pissed her off. She hates wastefulness.
To be fair (and god knows I'm all about being fair), my daughter saw a hot Morman proselytizing the other day. It really pissed her off. She hates wastefulness.
Marcia Brady
She shoulda oughta gone for it...maybe brought one over to our side.
Just so we are clear, Saletan refers to a word used satirically, or tongue in cheek, then says: "yes, thees ees what the peeples theenk" then makes passive-voice Freudian tsk-tsk sounds at the usage, after eet was taken out of context.
wankerrr.
so.
Not nearly as "governable" as a male body. -Hecate Malificent
That's right, nobody can stick it to ya like The Man.
Hi everyone. Is this thread supposed to be hush-hush and on the q.t.?
I have a good friend who's a Mormon, and I can honestly say I've never met a Mormon who wasn't very nice.
Well, I do have to admit Mormons are, indeed, generally nice people. Pretty much introverted religiously; you probably are more likely to get prostletyzed by a regular Protestant than a Mormon. (Unless you give some evidence of being a backslid Mormon yourself, in which case the gloves seem to come off.)
But they still reproduce in huge batches and their male offspring still have that weird pasty Mid-Western gape-mouthed look to them.
Maybe we can get some of the Muslim fundies upset with CartoonAllah to make a pile of shit in the shape of Brigham Young, and then have the fundies on both sides wipe each other out.
"Hot Mormon" would be pretty cool name for a punk band.
Wasn't Saletan Lieberman's biggest booster in the 04 primaries?
Rage. Agreed but with assholes like the Senate Democrats leading the way - well, I guess we deserve what we get for not rioting in December of 2000
And yet, my anger at holding this conversation, hearing these arguments, clicking thru these statements in the year 2006 is absolutely overwhelming.
Absolutely. I said the same the during the March for Women's lives in 2004: it was great to have my grown son marching by my side along w/ his lovely wife. And, yet, I'd have given quite a bit for it not to have been necessary. Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation?
She shoulda oughta gone for it...maybe brought one over to our side.
.
No, then MB's daughter would have had to given up her career, to bring many more little mormons into the world.
lewis black put it best:
"30 years later I can believe we still have to raise money for this shit."
ICUs are icky. Delivery rooms are icky. A throat culture is icky, managing a ventilated patient is icky, insering pins into a broken bone is uber icky, emptying a bedpan is icky.
Medical procedures are not clean, they are icky. The squeamish need not apply.
If you don't like it, DON'T LOOK.
rage--which brings up once again the image of pitchforks and torches.
I guess we deserve what we get for not rioting in December of 2000
It's never too late for us to go Ukranian on their asses.
Like Hecate and Mena, I am stunned that this discussion is still going on.
To the allegedly religious whack jobs who disagree, I suggest they just pray for the soul of the woman who has to make that decision. That's about all they are entitled to do.
Fuckin' morons.
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation? ~ Hecate Malificent
Unfortunately, si.
so.
Just for once I'd like to have a debate on the ickiness of aborting a four-week old embryo--1/10th of an inch long and closely resembling a booger.
She shoulda oughta gone for it...maybe brought one over to our side.
DemByDefault
Well, she is only 14. But she has a connoisseur's eye.
"30 years later I can believe we still have to raise money for this shit."
NARAL can.
Lewis Black for the Senate. I'd love to see him go apeshit on Chambliss or Cornyn.
He hasn't on TDS in a hundred years...is he touring, or did he move on?
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation?
It does seem as if everyone forgets over the course of about thirty years or so.
People have forgotten about Nixon, people have forgotten about the reproductive enslavement of women.
Maybe that's the lesson of history.
Too few people ever learn the lessons of history.
lewis black put it best:
"30 years later I can believe we still have to raise money for this shit."
I do love Lewis Black.
So abortion has added emphasis to our social and moral values that were either not present or ignored. It elevated our conscience to the plight of women and decisions they have to face alone and live with that their male counterpart does not acknowledge or deal with.
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
Meaning of course that the debate would be on the terms of the pro-choicer and not always on the terms of the wuss.
"30 years later I can believe we still have to raise money for this shit."
In a way it makes me depressed to read stuff from the 60's and early 70's.
What the fuck happened to that sense of political potential? Why ARE we re-hashing shit that should have been settled decades ago like abortion and gay rights and voting rights and illegal wars?
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation? ~ Hecate Malificent
++++++++++++++++++++
Unfortunately, si.
so.
¡El Gato Negro! |- 4:56 pm
=======
more often even than that...every five years, approximately...
It's never too late for us to go Ukranian on their asses.
The window of accountability has been boarded over.
er, that should've been "can't believe"
ICUs are icky. Delivery rooms are icky. A throat culture is icky, managing a ventilated patient is icky, insering pins into a broken bone is uber icky, emptying a bedpan is icky.
Medical procedures are not clean, they are icky. The squeamish need not apply.
To make it ickier, nurses put adhesive tape everywhere, so if you are ever under their care in a hospital, it will take weeks before you finally wash off the sticky adhesive black marks off. (you wash one off and another will show up elsewhere the next day)
Well, she is only 14. But she has a connoisseur's eye.
oops-Sorry Marcia Marcia Marcia
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation? ~ Hecate Malificent
Actually, I think before Bush is done we're going to have to re-fight a lot of other battles people think are settled and won.
Mine safety, fercrissake!
I don't get why the fundies seem to tie everything to abortion.
Do we have to re-fight every single battle for justice every generation?
Yes.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
1/10th of an inch long and closely resembling a booger
Are you talking about wingnut genetalia again?
No, then MB's daughter would have had to given up her career, to bring many more little mormons into the world.
doug, *strange*
I'm not sure my little (5'9") Wicca would fit in so well. She would be shunned instead of paddeled in short order.
next we'll be fighting over whether or not women should be able to vote.
Too few people ever learn the lessons of history.
Seems to me Satayana warned us about that.
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
Push this issue, and you'll scare the crap out of the red staters. Newt Gingrich is the first example of this that comes to mind for me.
It's never too late for us to go Ukranian on their asses.
==
Unfortunately Hecate, at some point it certainly could be. I sure don't want to think we've passed that point.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
and let us strangle the last DinoCrat with the entrails of the last fundie preacher!!
i can't quite put it into words but how will one woman's abortion effect a fundie's life personally?
why are they throwing hissy fits over something that is clearly not their business.
Pere Ubu:
so.
next we'll be fighting over whether or not women should be able to vote.
I thought we'd settled that: no!
Nicely put, Diane
K&Y -- Susie Bright is brill
We've been through this so many times -- OK --- I agree w/ Lewis Black
All the statistics show that outlkawing the proceedure increases the numbers of abortions -- I've posted aboit it time & again -- BECAUSE it is not about "saving babies" but about the overall wqorld view of preserving patriarchy
And I have to go to church (Vespers)
Later bats
Hi everyone. Is this thread supposed to be hush-hush and on the q.t.?
Dr. smarty jones, pirate
i guess this was too obscure a reference.
I don't get why the fundies seem to tie everything to abortion.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 4:59 pm | #
and yet they:
believe and agree with the death penalty...
want to keep brain dead people alive, instead of letting them die decently...
and start unnecessary wars where thousands are killed and maimed...
hypocrisy.
it will take weeks before you finally wash off the sticky adhesive black marks off. (you wash one off and another will show up elsewhere the next day)
doug, *strange*
And if you take the "st" off of "sticky" it becomes, well, icky.
Life is one big miraculous icky, sticky web.
several times in my own country our home grown fundies keep trying to make abortion into a political matter.
not that they succeed.
i can't quite put it into words but how will one woman's abortion effect a fundie's life personally?
'cause it's the CULTURE OF LIIIIIIIIFFE! and they're oh so concerned about the taking of a cute lil' innocent life.
Unless, of course, it's Iraqi.
Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
Fix the fact that 30% of the US population regards sexual penetration as an act of ultimate domination, to be triumphally enjoyed by the male and experienced as abject humiliation by the female?
Why do you think misogyny and homophobia go hand in hand? It's all about penetration.
We are going to need a ton of shrinks.
Blogger is being really odd today. Bad Blogger!
Hi everyone. Is this thread supposed to be hush-hush and on the q.t.?
Dr. smarty jones, pirate
i guess this was too obscure a reference.
You will please to explain!
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
I may be mistaken, but I believe that a large percentages of abortions are performed on married women. So while I agree that, for example, vigorously enforcing child support laws, would help prevent abortions, I'm not sure it would eliminate them. Just as fire safety measures could reduce plastic surgery operations but certainly wouldn't eliminate them. And, why should we want to eliminate either?
next we'll be fighting over whether or not women should be able to vote.
I thought we'd settled that: no!
NTodd, Land Shark
But I was going to vote for NTodd as the hottest land shark in the blogosphere. Oh, well...maybe I can get some man to do it for me.
I don't get why the fundies seem to tie everything to abortion.
Moonbootica
It works like this, baby girl - they have that hammered into their heads week after week after week by their preachers. They hook it all together - abortion, teh gay, intellectuals, all the way up to teh gay, homosexual intellectual Jews who perform abortions on white girls and the white race is dying out.
That's how it goes in a lot of those fundie churches.
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death.
Half Fast Skier
Not necessarily. What about the woman trapped in a marriage with an abusive husband and more kids than she can manage?
What about a woman with a decent husband with more kids than she can manage?
What about a woman who simply cannot bear and raise a child right now for any reason?
In this culture, it's the woman who has to bear the child, and usually has to raise it.
But I was going to vote for NTodd as the hottest land shark in the blogosphere. Oh, well...maybe I can get some man to do it for me.
Honey, your intention has been noted. Now get back to the kitchen and fix me a sandwich...
I looked at Lynn Swann's website today: He's all about the Culture of Life, with Tweety's brother by his side.
Hi everyone. Is this thread supposed to be hush-hush and on the q.t.?
Dr. smarty jones, pirate
i guess this was too obscure a reference.
You will please to explain!
LA Confidential.
I'm not sure my little (5'9") Wicca would fit in so well. She would be shunned instead of paddeled in short order.
Marcia Brady ∞, which proves to me that they are unredeemably stupid. You showed us a picture of her sometime ago, and I still remember how beautiful she is. If she is in any way as beautiful inside, then she's a goddess.
"sciencey" or science-like?
The fair and balanced debate continues.
LA Confidential.
Thats a great movie!! To Netflix....
Betty Friedan passed away and yet Kevin Federline is allowed to walk the Earth unencumbered by the chains of death. What a world!
Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp.
They do not want to eliminate abortion, they want to reinforce the hierachical structure of society. They don't care about the fetus, they care that a woman may have sex outside marriage, may ENJOY it (I know, shocking though that is), and may be able to make a decision that does not involve a husband or father.
Women having enjoyable sex scares the bejeebus out of them.
I am not helping with the general mood around here, am I?
Sorry, while this day has been pleasant there is the nagging cesspool always waiting for the unsuspecting thinker. Instead of some crazy snake handling fundies: it has gone mainstream; supported in the media and by the government.
Sometimes I just wish I could wake up from this bad dream. Nothing is sacred to them except telling other people what to do. They do not actually believe this stuff, they just pontificate to ease their own sin. It is a sad situation brought about by the indifference of Americans and the complete victory of money over reason.
Shit.
the fundies must realise that banning abortion won't stop 'em happening.
the rich won't give shit, they will just send their daughters to foregin clinics.
and the less well off will be forced to turn to desperate measures.
all they are doing is causing more deaths.
fucking tossers!
Betty Friedan passed away and yet Kevin Federline is allowed to walk the Earth unencumbered by the chains of death. What a world!
Monica_A, One Bad Motherf***er
Monica_A, I officially love you. That gave me the first real belly laugh of the day.
a lot of it is control as well. they want to be able to control women.
Betty Friedan passed away and yet Kevin Federline is allowed to walk the Earth unencumbered by the chains of death. What a world!
But he does have to lug around the chains of Britany. Some things are worse than death.
.
"Seems to me, if the fundy's what to eliminate abortion, they need to focus on the absent male role, not the evil woman tramp. It's not about sex. It's about the absent male role. Fix that and the abortion issue pretty much dies a silent death."
Half Fast Skier
Not necessarily. What about the woman trapped in a marriage with an abusive husband and more kids than she can manage?
What about a woman with a decent husband with more kids than she can manage?
What about a woman who simply cannot bear and raise a child right now for any reason?
In this culture, it's the woman who has to bear the child, and usually has to raise it.
Diane, there's nothing wrong with the basic concept that Half Fast Skier came up with. It just needs to be tuned better to reflect the real responsibilities, and needs of women, children, and the family.
Here is the hush-hush on the q.t reference:
(from today's NYT on Scooter)
In his opinion, Judge Tatel said that Mr. Fleischer said that Mr. Libby had told him that Ms. Wilson sent had her husband on a trip to Africa to examine intelligence reports indicating that Iraq had sought to buy uranium ore from Niger.
Judge Tatel wrote that Mr. Fleischer had described the lunch to prosecutors as having been "kind of weird" and had noted that Mr. Libby typically "operated in a very closed-lip fashion." Judge Tatel added: "Fleischer recalled that Libby 'added something along the lines of, you know, this is hush hush, nobody knows about this. This is on the q.t.' "
i've said this time and again but i think before a Fundie opens their trap they should watch Vera Drake.
et Kevin Federline is allowed to walk the Earth unencumbered by the chains of death. What a world!
Seems the Fundies have their knickers in a twist because Britnee "We should all just be quiet and do what the prezinninit says" Spears is going to be on will and grace.
Tucker Carlson should've been kicked out of the club for sitting there with a straight face.
And you don't have to rub it in, I'm already embarrassed to admit I know who Kevin Federline is.
Now get back to the kitchen and fix me a sandwich...
NTodd, Land Shark
I got your sandwich right here, baby. Try and find it.
I love you too, Marcia Brady!
more vacay pix, for those who are interested.
As Barry Goldwater said………..
“Woman have been aborting from the beginning of time, and they will be aborting till the end of time”
The issue is….. will it be legal or illegal. The fundies love the, ‘sweep it under the carpet’ hypocrisy of the Victorians. Everything on the surface looks fine and moral.
But underneath, sex, prostitution, back street abortions are numerous. As usual with the right, it’s the image that counts.
OT: Wall St Week Ahead: Stocks to face new rate fears
NEW YORK, Feb 3 - U.S. stock investors head into next week with fresh concerns about inflation and interest rates after Friday's payrolls report showed robust job and wage growth, while a less-than-stellar earnings picture could add to weaker sentiment.
Oil prices above $65 a barrel also could dampen the mood for bulls on Wall Street, as worries over possible United Nations sanctions against No. 4 oil exporter Iran over its nuclear program continue.
Friday's report from the Labor Department tripped the market, helping push stocks down for a second straight day.
Life is icky.
The women I know who have had abortions have felt nothing but PROFOUND RELIEF that they were no longer pregnant. I've said it a million times, it's all about punishing women for having sex. Fetus, schmetus, that whore will pay.
But, it all we got.
Women having enjoyable sex scares the bejeebus out of them.
Well of course, the unsaid thing here is the unbalanced capacities for enjoyable sex, men vs women.
It makes their peckers shrink if they do consider this for very long.
If she is in any way as beautiful inside, then she's a goddess.
doug, *strange*
She is, and she's smart and mouthy as well. Definately not fundy material.
Watertiger, are you a Geena Davis type pirate now? (Lovely pictures, BTW)
Al Lewis is gone and yet the dark shadow of Cheney still looms over the land.
It's a scary world when you find yourself intellectually aligned with Barry Goldwater against the President of the United Fucking States.
"...you probably are more likely to get prostletyzed by a regular Protestant than a Mormon."
What? Mormons go door to door trying to convert people. I've never had another religion show up at my door trying to convert me.
I got your sandwich right here, baby. Try and find it.
Oh, uh, you weren't going to bring it to me?
i've said this time and again but i think before a Fundie opens their trap they should watch Vera Drake.
That tactic will only work because the film moves so slowly they will be lulled into a near comatose state.
.
Patriarchial, fundie thinking:
Women are objects to be penetrated. They can not defend themselves from penetration.
Therefore, they need -they require- someone to control their lives. Control is defense; weak objects are unable to defend themselves; therefore, weak objects require control. Because these are MY weak objects, I will control, and thus defend, them.
Patriarchy at its finest.
Diane, there's nothing wrong with the basic concept that Half Fast Skier came up with. It just needs to be tuned better to reflect the real responsibilities, and needs of women, children, and the family.
doug, *strange*
Doug, I didn't mean to imply that Half Fast was wrong, and if that's how it came across, I apologize to him and to you.
My point is, however, that since it's the woman who carries the child, it's her decision, and no one else's.
Of course, the Times article started off by saying that Cheney himself told Libby of Plame's identity.
The media should be all over this.
Watertiger, are you a Geena Davis type pirate now?
Only if Renny Harlin ISN'T directing.
Now get back to the kitchen and fix me a sandwich...
If he really loved you, he'd be demanding an eclair.
"...you probably are more likely to get prostletyzed by a regular Protestant than a Mormon."
What? Mormons go door to door trying to convert people. I've never had another religion show up at my door trying to convert me.
I've heard if you tell Jehovah's Witnesses "I'm apostate" they'll run like you just told them you're coughing bird flu. I just told the Mormons to have a nice day.
the fundies must realise that banning abortion won't stop 'em happening.
==
Moon - fundies are hysterically insecure people who want two things, as far as I can see: 1. Control over anyone weaker, and 2. Lotsa hillbilly Melodrama. It's like a perpetual motion machine.
Dr. smarty jones, pirate,
The best part of the article was in the second paragraph...
"The newly released pages were part of a legal opinion written in February 2005 by Judge David S. Tatel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. His opinion disclosed that the former chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby Jr., acknowledged to prosecutors that he had heard directly from Mr. Cheney about the Central Intelligence Agency officer, Valerie Wilson, more than a month before her identity was first publicly disclosed on July 14, 2003, by a newspaper columnist..."
I wonder how they're gonna lie their way out of this?
Women having enjoyable sex scares the bejeebus out of them. ~ Marcia Brady ∞
Then ¡El Gato Negro! has a plan wheech should send them rrrunning, no? 
so.
Women having enjoyable sex scares the bejeebus out of them. ~ Marcia Brady ∞
Then ¡El Gato Negro! has a plan wheech should send them rrrunning, no?
so.
Well of course, the unsaid thing here is the unbalanced capacities for enjoyable sex, men vs women.
It makes their peckers shrink if they do consider this for very long.
doug, *strange*
Yes. Multiple orgasms v. refractory period. Men, I feel a little sorry for you. But that whole "world power" should compensate, right?
Barry Goldwater against the President of the United Fucking States.
Well, Barry had strong and reasonable beliefs. Also, his first wife, Peggy, was with Margaret Sanger, a founding member of Planned Parenthood of Arizona.
This is off base but I'm celebrating the life of Coretta Scott King this weekend...
http://katrinamemo.blogspot.com/...retta-
king.html
you had the mysterious Etruscan civilization, where families were organised around the Matriarch and lineage had to follow the maternal line.
The women I know who have had abortions have felt nothing but PROFOUND RELIEF that they were no longer pregnant.
God, don't say THAT! Why, ALL women want to carry lil' feti in their tummies just like those wonderful 1950's sitcom mothers who somehow had big families yet were never pregnant. And, see, that proves pregancy ain't no big deal!
Sheet, next you'll be claiming women have orgasms or something equally as ridiculous.
Barry Goldwater against the President of the United Fucking States.
Well, Barry had strong and reasonable beliefs. Also, his first wife, Peggy, was with Margaret Sanger, a founding member of Planned Parenthood of Arizona.
Yeah, I just meant that it's so absurd that opposing Bush is considered, by the Tweeties, to be radical leftishness.
It's never too late for us to go Ukranian on their asses.
the time for that was 2000...
besides, it might interfer with the superbowl
in all honesty, i really don't give a flying fuck what any man has to say about abortion.
it's my body -- it's my decision.
end of discussion.
"...you probably are more likely to get prostletyzed by a regular Protestant than a Mormon."
What? Mormons go door to door trying to convert people. I've never had another religion show up at my door trying to convert me.
They all show up at my door, generally when I'm in the middle of a beautiful nap.
"Here is the hush-hush on the q.t reference..."
I've been off the internets. Can someone tell me what "q.t." means?
Thank you.
I wonder how they're gonna lie their way out of this?
Half Fast Skier
In a sane world the Cheney revelation would lead to media frenzy. I doubt this will even get on the evening news.
WGG, looks like Michigan is doing a job on the elite. 
DemByDefault,
When I was growing up in Mobile, Alabama in the 60's, them Southern Babtist weren't going door-to-door but they had their hands in everything else, making you wish they were so you could slam the door in their faces.
If he really loved you, he'd be demanding an eclair.
Well, I wanted to eat something substantial first before I demanded dessert...
the mysterious Etruscan civilization
You know, given the way things are going, it might be a good thing if folks in the future couldn't read our language and just had a list of names & stuff.
hey halfdan,
The thread below died while I was calculating this, so if you're up here, I'm posting this again:
Assuming that switchgrass is economically viable, you'd still need millions of acres just to replace a small percentage of our gasoline. And that's just not realistic.
well, what I heard on NPR was that you could get about 1,500 gallons of ethanol per acre of switchgrass. So at 626 acres/sq. mi., that's 973,000 gallons per square mile, 9.73 million gallons/10 sq. mi, 97.3 million gallons per 100 square miles, 973 million gallons, 1,000 square miles, 9.73 billion gallons/10,000 square miles, and 97.3 billion gallons per 100,000 square miles.
So in theory we could meet approximately 75% of our gasoline consumption (131 bn gal/yr)requirement by putting 100,000 square miles of land under switchgrass cultivation. That might seem insane, until you find out that we already have almost 700,000 square miles of land under cultivation in this country. So that would be 15% of the land we have under cultivation converted to switchgrass. That's quite an investment, but compared to the collapse of civilization, it's not so bad.
in all honesty, i really don't give a flying fuck what any man has to say about abortion.
it's my body -- it's my decision.
end of discussion.
bkny | 02.04.06 - 5:14 pm | #
'sactly!
Oh, uh, you weren't going to bring it to me?
NTodd, Land Shark
My love, you sit right there -- get comfy -- and wait for it. Don't move. Close your eyes. I'm sure you'll get your sandwich annnnny minute....
When I was growing up in Mobile, Alabama in the 60's, them Southern Babtist weren't going door-to-door but they had their hands in everything else, making you wish they were so you could slam the door in their faces.
Half Fast Skier
Why does this put me in mind of a zombie movie? Shaun of the dead in Mobile.
Off to dinner with my better half (who believes Rex The Mountain Lion mascot for DHS is going to break into "YMCA" or that "Milkshake" song at any moment).
I've been off the internets. Can someone tell me what "q.t." means?
Thank you.
mer
I'm not exactly sure, but when scooter said it to Ari i'm sure it was implicating scandal.
To make it ickier, nurses put adhesive tape everywhere, so if you are ever under their care in a hospital, it will take weeks before you finally wash off the sticky adhesive black marks off. (you wash one off and another will show up elsewhere the next day)
doug, *strange* | 02.04.06 - 4:59 pm | #
vegetable or mineraloil followed by nail polish remover will fix that problem.
Yes. Multiple orgasms v. refractory period. Men, I feel a little sorry for you.
Don't be. Sane men know about this and spend about as much worrying on it as the interesting movement of the hair from the top of their head to their shoulders as they grow older.
(actually a pretty funny cosmic joke in my view.)
On February 18, 1937, Margaret Sanger addressed a group of socially prominent Phoenix women. At the time, Arizona was reporting the second highest maternal and infant mortality rate in the nation. Sanger said the statistics in Arizona were "ridiculous and unnecessary".
Both horrified and inspired by Ms. Sanger' speech, Mrs. Barry Goldwater, Mrs. H.T. Cuthbert, Mrs. Waltern Bimson, Mrs. Dwight B. Heard and Mrs. John Adams Rockwell took immediate action and began to raise funds to open the Mother's Health Clinic.
The doors opened on October 1, 1937. The clinic, which provided diaphragm fittings and family planning counseling for married women, was packed on a daily basis. By 1942, Phoenix' Mother's Health Clinic had become an affiliate of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America and was eventually renamed Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona.
the whole idea of Patriarchial rule only became established with the event of farming.
when we settle down, securing ones land and legacy became paramount.
Off topic, but, hey:
NEW YORK - Al Lewis, the cigar-chomping patriarch of "The Munsters" whose work as a basketball scout, restaurateur and political candidate never eclipsed his role as Grandpa from the television sitcom, died after years of failing health. He was 95.
Lewis, with his wife at his bedside, passed away Friday night, said Bernard White, program director at WBAI-FM, where the actor hosted a weekly radio program. White made the announcement on the air during the Saturday slot where Lewis usually appeared.
"To say that we will miss his generous, cantankerous, engaging spirit is a profound understatement," White said.
Lewis, sporting a somewhat cheesy Dracula outfit, became a pop culture icon playing the irascible father-in-law to Fred Gwynne's ever-bumbling Herman Munster on the 1964-66 television show. He was also one of the stars of another classic TV comedy, playing Officer Leo Schnauzer on "Car 54, Where Are You?"
But Lewis' life off the small screen ranged far beyond his acting antics. A former ballplayer at Thomas Jefferson High School, he achieved notoriety as a basketball talent scout familiar to coaching greats like Jerry Tarkanian and Red Auerbach.
He operated a successful Greenwich Village restaurant, Grandpa's, where he was a regular presence _ chatting with customers, posing for pictures, signing autographs.
Just two years short of his 90th birthday, a ponytailed Lewis ran as the Green Party candidate against incumbent Gov. George Pataki. Lewis campaigned against draconian drug laws and the death penalty, while going to court in a losing battle to have his name appear on the ballot as "Grandpa Al Lewis."
He didn't defeat Pataki, but managed to collect more 52,000 votes.
Lewis was born Alexander Meister in upstate New York before his family moved to Brooklyn, where the 6-foot-1 teen began a lifelong love affair with basketball. He later became a vaudeville and circus performer, but his career didn't take off until television did the same.
Lewis, as Officer Schnauzer, played opposite Gwynne's Officer Francis Muldoon in "Car 54, Where Are You?" _ a comedy about a Bronx police precinct that aired from 1961-63. One year later, the duo appeared together in "The Munsters," taking up residence at the fictional 1313 Mockingbird Lane.
The series, about a family of clueless creatures plunked down in middle America, was a success and ran through 1966. It forever locked Lewis in as the memorably twisted character; decades later, strangers would greet him on the street with shouts of "Grandpa!"
Unlike some television stars, Lewis never complained about getting typecast and made appearances in character for decades.
"Why would I mind?" he asked in a 1997 interview. "It pays my mortgage."
Lewis rarely slowed down, opening his restaurant and hosting his WBAI radio program.
In October 2005, Mr. Deutsch sent an e-mail message to Flint Wild, a NASA contractor working on a set of Web presentations about Einstein for middle-school students. The message said the word "theory" needed to be added after every mention of the Big Bang.
In the God theory we trust.
One nation under the God theory.
God: "not proven fact; it is opinion"
--
My love, you sit right there -- get comfy -- and wait for it. Don't move. Close your eyes. I'm sure you'll get your sandwich annnnny minute....
I'd also appreciate a happy ending...
I wonder how they're gonna lie their way out of this?
Half Fast Skier - 5:12 pm
offer fitz a judgeship?
worked with Hillman, the Abramoff prosecutor...
Did everyone Freep the Vote
I've had Mormons come to my door once, maybe twice.
Jehovah Witnesses have followed me through three moves since 1978. Now, those folkes show up.
Mr. Cheney about the Central Intelligence Agency officer, Valerie Wilson, more than a month before her identity was first publicly disclosed on July 14, 2003, by a newspaper columnist..."
I wonder how they're gonna lie their way out of this?
The sad thing is, they won't have to, no one will ask them the question. Hillary said "Plantation" or whatever the bullshit "issue" is for the Beltway this week.
Grandpa Munster is dead and yet George Bush and Dick Cheney...you all know the rest.
At one point during the '90s, he was a frequent guest on the Howard Stern radio show, once sending the shock jock diving for the delay button by leading an undeniably obscene chant against the Federal Communications Commission.
He also popped up in a number of movies, including the acclaimed "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" and "Married to the Mob." Lewis reprised his role of Schnauzer in the movie remake of "Car 54," and appeared as a guest star on television shows such as "Taxi," "Green Acres" and "Lost in Space."
But in 2003, Lewis was hospitalized for an angioplasty. Complications during surgery led to an emergency bypass and the amputation of his right leg below the knee and all the toes on his left foot. Lewis spent the next month in a coma.
A year later, he was back offering his recollections of a seminal punk band on the DVD "Ramones Raw."
He is survived by his wife, Karen Ingenthron-Lewis, three sons and four grandchildren.
What? Mormons go door to door trying to convert people. I've never had another religion show up at my door trying to convert me.
Yes, but they're generally polite about it. (And you've never had Jehovah's Witnesses come by?) I was thinking of the kind of leaning-over-to-the-next-table kind of witnessing I remember from college. Mormons usually don't do that kind of in-your-face stuff.
If he really loved you, he'd be demanding an eclair.
Hecate Malificent
Oh, he doesn't. I'm just the trampy type that would get an abortion or something. Certainly not the type you'd take home to momma.
vegetable or mineraloil followed by nail polish remover will fix that problem.
as I said the nurses put the adhesive tape everywhere. You'd have to take a shower in the solvent to get it all off. All you can do is to wash frequently, and work extra hard on the marks when you find them.
Yes. Multiple orgasms v. refractory period. Men, I feel a little sorry for you. But that whole "world power" should compensate, right?
Marcia Brady ?
hehhahahahaha...ahem. Yeah, poor babies. They sure carry a grudge, don't they?
and to pick up on the previous thread, i just want to point out that once idiot son is gone, these agencies are still going to be polluted with his appointees. between all of the career professionals who have been forced out during the bush regime and the political hacks being appointed now, there's some very wicked times ahead rebuilding these agencies -- not to mention the rebuilding public trust.
you really have to wonder sometimes, if these people aren't the ultimate manchurian candidates..
Dr. smarty jones, pirate
Sad that irony trumps the truth, especially when a sitting Judge is the author and what he says has no bearing.
Thanks for that GWPDA.
That's terrible news about Al Lewis and Betty Friedan. *sigh*
Seems the Fundies have their knickers in a twist because Britnee "We should all just be quiet and do what the prezinninit says" Spears is going to be on will and grace.
...
DemByDefault
NBC caved again to the AFA and axed the Britney Spears "cruci-fixins" gag.
Seemed like a lame joke anyway, and that's the problem with defending the First Amendment. Who can get all fired up over defending a silly joke grafted around a (perceived) commercial-selling cameo?
The fact that this gives Wildmon something else to crow about is...well...icky.
We hear a lot now about regret and sorrow, and I know some women who have abortions feel that way, but we don't hear about the regrets and sorrow women feel who went ahead and had the baby, and we don't hear much from women who are just completely relieved and thankful that the clinic was there for them and they can get on with their lives—lives that are good and moral.
I'm sick of those commercials.
They're "sorry" so no one else should be permitted to have an abortion.
bkny--it really boggles the mind when one realizes it is as bad as all that.
and all because of the boyking.
On The Q.T.
the phrase, on the QT, meaning "off the record or in confidence"
On the Q.T.
According to Robert Hendrickson, in The Facts on File Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, the first reference is from a British ballad of 1870, which contained the line “Whatever I tell you is on the QT”. It seems to have been just an abbreviated spelling, using the first and last letters of the word quiet, the mild obfuscation also suggesting a meaning for the expression. The Oxford English Dictionary has a first sighting from 1884: “It will be possible to have one spree on the strict q.t.”. Mr Hendrickson points out that it also occurs in a famous London ditty of 1891, sung by Lottie Collins, which also introduced the famous chorus line “Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay”:
A sweet Tuxedo girl you see,
Queen of swell society,
Fond of fun as fun can be,
When it's on the strict Q.T.
I can hardly even bear to participate in this discussion. With Alito on the bench Roe is toast. Whether they do it in one fell sweep, or if they pick at it around the edges til there is nothing left to pick at, it is toast.
And I can seem to get young women connected to the subject. Too icky I suppose.
Stocks to face new rate fears
A stamp tax would clear that right up.
I see WGG is adept at Shao-Lin Google as well.
*bows*
it's my body -- it's my decision.
end of discussion.
bkny
Perzackly!
Morons.
They're "sorry" so no one else should be permitted to have an abortion.
How cynical is it that the religionists are trotting out these women who they have brainwashed with guilt to testify about their guiltiness?
It's rape, really.
can seem=can't seem
but y'all knew that.
One the best arguments I've heard lately against the anti-choice crowd was made here the other day, we can't go back to a time when poor women threw themselves down the stairs rather than face another birth in an already poor family.
i've said this time and again but i think before a Fundie opens their trap they should watch Vera Drake.
Moonbootica,
Sadly, I doubt it would make any difference. Hard core fundies are taught and believe that Satan is out there all the time trying to trap 'em and they'd just shut their minds off.
in all honesty, i really don't give a flying fuck what any man has to say about abortion.
it's my body -- it's my decision.
end of discussion.
bkny | 02.04.06 - 5:14 pm | #
'sactly!
her eyes
And you have never seen, nor will you ever, voice thoughts about abortion other than it is an individual's choice. Even I am smart enough to figure that one out.
Grandpa Munster is dead and yet George Bush and Dick Cheney...you all know the rest.
Monica_A, One Bad Motherf***er
It's weird. I had the same sort of thought when JFK, Jr. died and Ronald Reagan was still drawing breath.
Hard core fundies are taught and believe that Satan is out there all the time trying to trap 'em and they'd just shut their minds off.
Tena
Shut their WHATS off?
"The newly released pages were part of a legal opinion written in February 2005 by Judge David S. Tatel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. His opinion disclosed that the former chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby Jr., acknowledged to prosecutors that he had heard directly from Mr. Cheney about the Central Intelligence Agency officer, Valerie Wilson, more than a month before her identity was first publicly disclosed on July 14, 2003, by a newspaper columnist..."
I don't have a comment. I just wanted to see that one more time. NOW will Bush fire him?
the phrase, on the QT, meaning "off the record or in confidence"
Pere Ubu
thanks Pere. I learn something new everyday by coming here! Actually, I thought it was most likely modern slang, and surprised to see its been with us for some time.
you really have to wonder sometimes, if these people aren't the ultimate manchurian candidates..
bkny | 02.04.06 - 5:19 pm
nothing EVER gets fixed
nothing EVER gets repaired or returned to its previous state...
what happens is that shit gets papered over, and pardons are issued, and the fascists crawl under their rocks again and wait til the NEXT time they can emerge and fuck things up...
and liberal democracies ALWAYS seem to let it happen...
Yes. Multiple orgasms v. refractory period. Men, I feel a little sorry for you. But that whole "world power" should compensate, right?
Marcia Brady ?
hehhahahahaha...ahem. Yeah, poor babies. They sure carry a grudge, don't they?
Only a foolish woman underestimates the orgasmic capabilities of a 21 year old male.
"And I can seem to get young women connected to the subject. Too icky I suppose."
--ql in ny
I haven't read abortion statistics in this country lately (maybe they are being aborted). I do remember abortions had dropped during the Clinton administration. My gut feeling is they are up now.
I agree, as do most people, that abortion is 'icky', but if I had a nickel for every pro-choice person who made the "women's rights" argument of abortion, as the second of these two paragraphs does, I'd have 10 cents. And the writer said it - 'nobody else seems to talk this way'.
True. True.
I gather that most people don't actually understand the argument. Charles Barkley was on tv with that incredibly fuckin annoying pseudo-sportscaster-type the other day (Deutch, or something?), and Barkley was like, "I just have to get my daughter through college without being pregnant so at least she'll have a chance."
Why can't more pro-choice people talk like that? Incompetence - played out daily, for the people of America. Pathetic.
One the best arguments I've heard lately against the anti-choice crowd was made here the other day, we can't go back to a time when poor women threw themselves down the stairs rather than face another birth in an already poor family.
DemByDefault
They'll just say what Margaret Sanger heard a doctor tell a woman in that position.
To make her husband sleep on the roof.
And I can't seem to get young women connected to the subject. Too icky I suppose
And class is another complication, "Republican for choice" types know that the law will never really affect them, even if ScAlito and Roberts do their thing.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar
"offer fitz a judgeship?"
If I'm not mistaken, a prosecutor was taken down a notch or two because of Abramoff and it's being investigated,
Also, there are a few raised eyebrows over Bush offering Judgeships to prosectors running highly publicized court cases that would have detrimental consequences to the GOP and his Admin.
The Congress is starting to get wise to these headhunting expeditions by Bush to incapicitate Justice Dept investigations.
Geez... Archives, Jeffraham, Archives!
.
It is hilarious how the fundies always refer to any form of science as……..“just another theory.”
And yet, a book that was written 2000 years ago by, who knows…… is taken as a proven.
The funniest I once heard, was a Christian fundie who explained that……because she could go to Jerusalem , and NOT find the body of Christ, proves that he must have ascended into heaven.
It would be like a scientist claiming……..
Hey, I have just discovered a cure for cancer, but the fact that I can’t show it to you proves it is true.
Why is Charles Barkley a fucking Republican?
He's a black guy from Alabama for Chrissakes!
Oy vey: another abortion thread.
My two cents:
If abortion is "icky," then WTF is the death penalty?
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
I don't have a comment. I just wanted to see that one more time. NOW will Bush fire him?
Hecate Malificent
The most revealing thing about all this is that the headlines are a meek "New Details Emerge on Plame Invetigation" with no hint of the immense significance of this.
VP Gore would have been crucified by the press.
Matrilineality
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
I wrote a paper about how Circe and Kalypso represented the matrilineal traditions that were being destroyed in The Odessey, while Penelope represented the patriarchal "good wife." The teacher thought I was wacky, but she still gave me an A.
Charles Barkley was on tv with that incredibly fuckin annoying pseudo-sportscaster-type the other day (Deutch, or something?),
I call him Donnie Douchebag.
I do remember abortions had dropped during the Clinton administration. My gut feeling is they are up now.
Oh, that's true. I don't have the exact numbers, but that's the fact, jack.
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
Dustin Ridgeway
Doesn't have a clue.
Only a foolish woman underestimates the orgasmic capabilities of a 21 year old male.
Muad 'Dib
Well, hello, Muad 'Dib...
USer women who have children, but regret it, and say so
get called really baaad names...they are objects of even more opprobrium than women who abort rather than regret...
Why is Charles Barkley a fucking Republican?
He's a black guy from Alabama for Chrissakes!
When his mother told him the Rebublicans were only for the rich, he said, I know, and I'm rich.
But I seem to remember reading he defected to the Bright Side in 2000
I wrote a paper about how Circe and Calypso represented the matrilineal traditions that were being destroyed in The Odyssey, while Penelope represented the patriarchal "good wife." The teacher thought I was wacky, but she still gave me an A.
Marcia Brady ∞
I think you're right.
My two cents:
If abortion is "icky," then WTF is the death penalty?
res ipsa loquitur | 02.04.06 - 5:26 pm | #
um, hypocrisy?
not to mention all the killing that during war! why aren't they as zealous about that?
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
==
May I just repeat my earlier remark about hillbilly melodrama? Please? It fits this guy to a tee.
If abortion is "icky," then WTF is the death penalty?
res ipsa loquitur
Icky-er. My ex made me watch The Green Mile. I still haven't forgiven him.
But I seem to remember reading he defected to the Bright Side in 2000
DemByDefault
I would hope so.
He was talking about getting into politics in Alabama as a Repuke.
My daughter said "Yeah, with a white wife. That'll work with the folks in Jebusland!"
Whether matriarchal societies might have existed at some time in the distant past is controversial. The controversy began in reaction to the book by Johann Jakob Bachofen Mother Right: An Investigation of the Religious and Juridical Character of Matriarchy in the Ancient World in 1861. Several generations of ethnologists were inspired by his pseudo-evolutionary theory of archaic matriarchy. Following him and Jane Ellen Harrison, several generations of scholars, arguing usually from myths or oral traditions and neolithic female cult-figures, suggested that many ancient societies were matriarchal, or even that there existed a wide-ranging matriarchal society prior to the ancient cultures of which we are aware (see for example The White Goddess by Robert Graves).
More recent archaeologists like Marija Gimbutas have argued for a widespread matriarchal culture in pre-Indo-European Old Europe of the Neolithic.
The old Moad-Dib took a pilgramage into the desert some time ago. I know not this Muad 'Dib
USer women who have children, but regret it, and say so
get called really baaad names...they are objects of even more opprobrium than women who abort rather than regret...
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar (aka | Email | 02.04.06 - 5:28 pm | #
oh bigtime word on that Woody!
And class is another complication, "Republican for choice" types know that the law will never really affect them, even if ScAlito and Roberts do their thing.
DemByDefault
ya know, there's a part of me that would be happy to see that kansas law the insane a.g. wants enforced -- the one that all teenagers under 16 evidencing sexual activity are to be reported to state authorities. it'd be righteous to see the son of the local gop, who happens to be the football captain, get nailed (so to speak) for something like this. .
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
But not much of one. The concept of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd term abortions and how many and for what reason they happen, I'm sure excapes you.
It fits this guy to a tee.
mena
A real know-nothing, that one is!
May I make a brief point: A good education has to effect of freeing the mind of misconceptions and allowing an individual to truly understand how little they know of the world.
As the cat would say, "So"
So, as I was saying... I had a nice li'l 3-hr. nap, but had the weirdest dreams.
.
people against abortion are 100% in favor of having absolute control over women and their bodies. they do not love the fetus. they do not love the baby - they do want women barefoot, pregnant and very PUNISHED in a permanent way for daring to have sex in any way shape or form (including married women who have already have many children - see the big gay pope, who not only forbids abortion, but birth control).
if you know their motivation, then you won't fall for all their muddying the waters over "ickiness" that the "open minders" seem to have fallen for.
One area where written myths are available from an early period is the Aegean culture-zone, where the Minoan Great Goddess was worshipped in a society where women and men were apparently equals. Gender equality is a typical characteristic of matriarchy, according to the claims of modern Matriarchal Studies.
Modern 'Goddess women' are sometimes too quick to assume that any culture that worships a Mother Goddess must be matriarchal. But there are traces, under the insistently patriarchal Olympian mythology of classical Greece, of earlier matrilineal and matrifocal systems. See the entries for Alcimede or for Hyas for examples.
The concept of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd term abortions and how many and for what reason they happen, I'm sure excapes you.
doug, *strange*
A blastocyst is "holy" to the troll.
Fuck women's lives.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar (aka | Email | 02.04.06 - 5:20 pm | #
just about as much fun as "sub rosa"
Why is Charles Barkley a fucking Republican?
He's a black guy from Alabama for Chrissakes!
Terry C, Coldplayer
he very actively campaigned with john edwards. i think that republican tag was more joke than real; he's disavowed it.
I have a real problem with abortion. How can I on one hand condemn the death penalty or the useless loss of soldiers' lives in Iraq but, on the other hand, condone abortions?
To me the destruction of a human life is an abomination whether it occurs in utero or on the battlefield. What we really need is a sane national policy with respect to birth control and a system of placing unwanted babies with families that will want them and take good care of them.
It sorrows me to live in a nation so lacking in love and compassion that we would rather destroy lives than save them.
May I make a brief point: A good education has to effect of freeing the mind of misconceptions and allowing an individual to truly understand how little they know of the world.
and yet, some people don't know what they don't know!
"they do not love the fetus. they do not love the baby - they do want women barefoot, pregnant and very PUNISHED in a permanent way for daring to have sex in any way shape or form"
Well, if ya can't keep 'em barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, how can ya control them?
Well, hello, Muad 'Dib...
Marcia Brady ∞
Usul to you baby.
Later, 'Bats. Keep up the outrage as long as possible.
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
Dustin Ridgeway
And fuck you sideways with Barndog's rusty chain saw, you cretin with a gelatinous goo for a brain.
I have a real problem with abortion. How can I on one hand condemn the death penalty or the useless loss of soldiers' lives in Iraq but, on the other hand, condone abortions?
With all due respect, it's not YOUR choice.
If you have a problem with abortion, no one is forcing you to have one!
it'd be righteous to see the son of the local gop, who happens to be the football captain
If that law passes, I'll bet 20 grand against a boy ever being arrested
COP: now son, you go on home, and next time you feel that way, go over the state line to missouri and find yerself a hoo-er.
[The best tribute is her work, so here goes.]
The problem lay buried, unspoken, for many years in the minds of American women. It was a strange stirring, a sense of dissatisfaction, a yearning that women suffered in the middle of the twentieth century in the United States. Each suburban wife struggled with it alone. As she made the beds, shopped for groceries, matched slipcover material, ate peanut butter sandwiches with her children, chauffeured Cub Scouts and Brownies, lay beside her husband at night--she was afraid to ask even of herself the silent question--"Is this all?"
...
But on an April morning in 1959, I heard a mother of four, having coffee with four other mothers in a suburban development fifteen miles from New York, say in a tone of quiet desperation, "the problem." And the others knew, without words, that she was not talking about a problem with her husband, or her children, or her home. Suddenly they realized they all shared the same problem, the problem that has no name. They began, hesitantly, to talk about it. Later, after they had picked up their children at nursery school and taken them home to nap, two of the women cried, in sheer relief, just to know they were not alone.
...
If I am right, the problem that has no name stirring in the minds of so many American women today is not a matter of loss of femininity or too much education, or the demands of domesticity. It is far more important than anyone recognizes. It is the key to these other new and old problems which have been torturing women and their husbands and children, and puzzling their doctors and educators for years. It may well be the key to our future as a nation and a culture. We can no longer ignore that voice within women that says: "I want something more than my husband and my children and my home."
-- Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique, Chapter 1.
Bless her soul, and never let the door she opened be closed again.
Dustin's parents, methinks, threw out the baby and kept the afterbirth.
Just like Chimpy's parental unit.
If abortion is "icky," then WTF is the death penalty?
Oh, well, they're totally different. Abortion happens in bloodsoaked charnel houses of murder, done by giggling sadistic doctors and crazed lesbian nurses, while death penalty killings happen in nice clean quiet rooms with responsible medical personnel present.
Oh, and death penalty is done by the State, and fuck knows the State never messes anything up.
"we don't hear much from women who are just completely relieved and thankful that the clinic was there for them and they can get on with their lives"
nobody asks because it doesn't fit into the narrative that the right has hammered (and people like Hilary Clinton have fallen into) that abortion is "regrettable".
and there is shame heaped upon that decision, which means any counterposing viewpoint becomes silenced, because culturally it is not seen as a valid viewpoint. abortion that turns out good is seen as "selfish" because everyone knows women exist to sacrifice themselves for others.
"Yes, but they're generally polite about it. (And you've never had Jehovah's Witnesses come by?)"
Yeah, I'd forgotten (thankfuly) about the Witnesses. My sister lives in Utah and her kid was constantly hassled by Morman kids and adults trying to convert her. Maybe it's a lot worse when they are dominant religion in the area.
Bless her soul, and never let the door she opened be closed again.
Uncle Smokes
Word!
The Ancient Egyptians often married their sisters (or another female relative) because they followed the Matrilineality system.
the Ptolemies carried on this tradition.
Oh, and death penalty is done by the State, and fuck knows the State never messes anything up.
You forgot closure, and deterrance, Haven't you noticed how the crime rates have plummeted since 1973?
Only a foolish woman underestimates the orgasmic capabilities of a 21 year old male.
Muad 'Dib
Come sit over here by me.
abortion that turns out good is seen as "selfish" because everyone knows women exist to sacrifice themselves for others.
MadEye Moody |
Oh, yes - and once a woman gets pregnant, she ceases to be an individual with rights.
THAT is what these anti-choice assholes want.
I've always believed that I was entitled to have a life.
the Ancients had a rather active sex life if Nigel Cawthorne's Sex Life of the Roman Emperors is anything to go by.
male, female - all the same to them!
I have a real problem with abortion. How can I on one hand condemn the death penalty or the useless loss of soldiers' lives in Iraq but, on the other hand, condone abortions?
When there seems to be more genuine soul-searching by a woman over whether or not to have an abortion, than was the case in the decision to send us to "war", I'd say that's your problem right there.
Moonie,
I was thirty-five years old and the proud possessor of a bachelors and a masters degree before I ever heard of Bachafocen, Gimbutas, Graves, or Carol Christ. You are an amazing scholar.
he Ancients had a rather active sex life if Nigel Cawthorne's Sex Life of the Roman Emperors is anything to go by.
male, female - all the same to them!
Have you penetrated anyone yet?
Atia of the Julii
Usul to you baby.
Muad'Dib
Is that better or worse? Really, I read Dune some time ago...
-- Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique
My bible.
Hecate Malificent well i still hope to learn a lot more thats for sure!
Moonie,
I was thirty-five years old and the proud possessor of a bachelors and a masters degree before I ever heard of Bachafocen, Gimbutas, Graves, or Carol Christ. You are an amazing scholar.
Hecate Malificent
Yes, she is.
Her posts are very educational and enlightening!
The support for state sanctioned violence by most anti-abortion people is what tells you they are liars, on what they say they believe. If I start hearing them talk about unnecessary war, and the use there of bombs, gases, land mines, and white phosphorus weapons, then I might listen to their arguments more.
But they don't, so in my view what they say is the meaningless chatter of holler mockery tribes.
I think I will go take a walk and cool off.
Later, rational people.
Oops...I may have messed the previous link up: Here's Chapter 1 of The Feminine Mystique.
[I got kind of emotional contemplating Friedan's legacy.]
You forgot closure, and deterrance, Haven't you noticed how the crime rates have plummeted since 1973?
Murder rates are actually higher in states with a death penalty than without. (The research was done a couple years ago and I forget the details.)
Bachafocen, Gimbutas, Graves, or Carol Christ. You are an amazing scholar.
Hecate Malificent
I self-educated on those, as well as Merlin Stone and Z. Budapest and Starhawke. But I haven't experienced Bachafocen.
Only a foolish woman underestimates the orgasmic capabilities of a 21 year old male. ~ Muad 'Dib
When thees perrito speaks of "orgasmic capabilities" of 21 yr olds, he ees speaking of hees orgasms.
Oh, si, they can have sex twenty times een thirty minutes.
Eet sounds like a lot of fun, for 45 seconds at a time, no?
so.
"Without abortion, women would be less healthy, less educated, less able to realize their gifts and talents, less able to choose their mates; children would be cared for worse and provided for less well; sex would be blighted by fear of pregnancy, as it used to be back in the good old days; families would be even more screwed up than they already are; there would be more single mothers who can't cope, more divorce, more poverty, and more unhappy people feeling sandbagged by circumstance"
Amazing how these morons believe that WOMEN should be made to pay for having sex.
The men should walk away scott-free.
Sexism to the extreme.
Murder rates are actually higher in states with a death penalty than without. (The research was done a couple years ago and I forget the details.)
I always suspected this. Just look at Texas: Hasn't the murder rate sky-rocketed there in the last twenty years? And all those years that NY's was declining was under Cuomo, wasn't it?
Here -
http://www.commondreams.org/head...s/092200-
01.htm
Published on Fridya, September 22, 2000 in the San Francisco Chronicle
States Without Death Penalty Have Lower Homicide Rates
by Raymond Bonner, Ford Fessenden, New York Times
The dozen states that have chosen not to enact the death penalty since the Supreme Court ruled in 1976 that it was constitutionally permissible have not had higher homicide rates than states with the death penalty, statistics and analysis show.
Elagabalus was obessed with huge penises, he actually sent scouts out to visit the provinces and find a prized specimen.
Men who were well attired could rise to high positions, they were appointed purely for the size of their organ.
a saying from Petronius did the rounds "It profits a man more to develope his penis than to develop his mind"
I took a couple of semesters of Modern European History - as a portion of my philsophy studies.
I've lost track of most of it, but I do recall some of the more important issues and events.
mockery tribes/monkey tribes
geez, what a spell checker can do to you if you don't pay close attention to it.
When thees perrito speaks of "orgasmic capabilities" of 21 yr olds, he ees speaking of hees orgasms.
Oh, si, they can have sex twenty times een thirty minutes.
Eet sounds like a lot of fun, for 45 seconds at a time, no?
so.
¡El Gato Negro! | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 5:43 pm | #
Rather puts one in mind of the mating capacity of the male shrew iirc.
These anti-abortion nitwits see nothing wrong with the murder of Iraqi children via our bombs, etc.
Reminds me of some folks in my area who demonstrated outside family planning clinics and wrote letters to the paper expressing their screwed up views while contributing money to the IRA.
Amazing how these morons believe that WOMEN should be made to pay for having sex.
The Bible tells them so, right up front.
Wind and haloscan acting up again.
I'll be back.
Just like 150 ago it was my choice whether I wanted to own slaves or not?
My personal choice may or may not have been right but society as a whole decided the practice was abhorrent except for the south. The result: 600,000 dead and racial anomosity that continues to this day.
We need to come to a much more rational solution to the abortion problem. Absolutism will get us nowhere.
Men who were well attired could rise to high positions, they were appointed purely for the size of their organ.
always milinium late and a dinari short I am
Just like 150 ago it was my choice whether I wanted to own slaves or not?
That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long time. Sorry, but it is.
Finding a mentulae magnae would earn the discoverer an enourmous finders fee.
Elagabalus then inspected the goods, if the man measure up, he would be inivited to share the imperial bed, if he satisifed the emperors lust he would earn a performance-related bonus.
These anti-abortion nitwits see nothing wrong with the murder of Iraqi children via our bombs, etc.
I saw a docs seminar on one of the university channels on emergency care in wartime. What they said about the damage done to a human body by the tools of war sickens me to this day.
abortion problem
Abortion isn't a problem; it's a medical procedure. Unwanted pregnancies are a problem.
Men who were well attired could rise to high positions, they were appointed purely for the size of their organ.
Ah, the joys of having an Italian husband.
And all those years that NY's was declining was under Cuomo, wasn't it?
DemByDefault
I believe it still is. NYC is the safest big city in the US. I feel perfectly safe (as I ever will) walking here at night.
Not so much in the other states where I've lived.
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
Was it Ken Burns' Civil War series where they showed the forensic tests measuring the damage caused to the body by the different kinds of weaponry? And that was 150 years ago.
Bunker busters. Bunkers my ass.
Just like 150 ago it was my choice whether I wanted to own slaves or not?
Only relationship between the two subjects is that women are supposed to be the new property, as far as the Reich is concerned.
My bible.
Terry C,
Well, I had a real problem with it. She seemed to be advocating trickle down feminism. That arm of the woman's movement never took into account the needs of poor working women, including daycare. And what has resulted is a hodge podge of desperate parents making individual arrangements that are often fraught with danger. They just assumed these matters would be attended to, but they never have been.
I can't access blogs from a new window.
Welp, maybe I need to lay low.
.
Ah, the joys of having an Italian husband.
Rage Time
Italian foreplay: "Hey, you awake?"
I apologize in advance for any offence the preceding joke may have caused.
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
That comment right there is enough for you to be shunned by any sane person.
the Ancients owned slaves too but they had a very different code as such (if you get what I mean).
a slave would often be a prisoner of war or somebody who owed a debt.
often slaves in the Roman empire could buy their freedom.
not that cruelty didn't go on just its not really the best way to compare the slavery we know today and the slavery they had back then.
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
When you show me a blastocyst that can exist independently of another human being, I'll buy into your argument. Slaves were individuals. I just find your comparison offensive, really.
Oh, si, they can have sex twenty times een thirty minutes.
Si, when the gatito pequeño requires más corto y más rápidamente.
Abortion isn't a problem; it's a medical procedure. Unwanted pregnancies are a problem.
masculine_monica_nyc
Not to mention lack of teaching about impulse control combined with a culturally reinforced sense of sexual entitlement in men--Jocelyn Elders is sorely missed.
heh its one reason why the Romans did not really invent stuff to replace slaves.
why go to that expense and hassle when you could simply invade and plunder another country and get endless ammounts of slaves?
Amigos, yesterday een thees comment section ¡El Gato Negro! learned a word that perrrfectly describes thees "hontlia".
Thees word, she ees "Ultracrepidarian".
so.
At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
Most slaves were human beings with a life behind them, not a fetus.
And killing a slave demanded compensation for the loss of valued property. I don't think it'd be out of character for some anti-abortionist to start demanding women pay compensation for having an abortion, possibly on the grounds of the taxes the child would have paid. As I said, it's still a matter of property.
Italian foreplay: "Hey, you awake?"
Not at my house! ;D
Tiberius wanted to reduced the reliance on slaves and restore the old system of yeoman farmers.
slaves revolted several times.
can anyone tell me if Geena Davis' Commander in Chief has been cancelled?
I am speculating that she was making someone look bad....
it certainly seems the Ancients were not hung up about sex.
between birth control and plan b, abortions should not be necessary any longer. why are fundamentalists and republicans against plan b? birth control? answer please: trolls? other protozoa? anyone?
women should be able to choose when they want to bear a child. end of fucking argument.
and i hope science finds a way to impregnate men (and hopefully bless them with menstruation and menopause) soon so this arguement can go into the historical wastebin along with "will the world really end when the next solar eclise happens?"
heh its one reason why the Romans did not really invent stuff to replace slaves.
why go to that expense and hassle when you could simply invade and plunder another country and get endless ammounts of slaves?
And one way where slavery eventually was a trap for Rome. When they got to the end of their tethers, on how far they could command conquered coutries, Rome began to decline.
can anyone tell me if Geena Davis' Commander in Chief has been cancelled?
I am speculating that she was making someone look bad....
Geena Davis would make watching the SOTU worth it.
Australian foreplay:
"Brace yourself, Shelia."
I apologize in advance for any offense the preceding joke may have given.
can anyone tell me if Geena Davis' Commander in Chief has been cancelled?
I am speculating that she was making someone look bad... ~ SHG
Si, she was making Geena Davis look bad.
so.
uh, oh. this won't load now.
http://atrios.blogspot.com/
Well, I had a real problem with it. She seemed to be advocating trickle down feminism. That arm of the woman's movement never took into account the needs of poor working women, including daycare. And what has resulted is a hodge podge of desperate parents making individual arrangements that are often fraught with danger. They just assumed these matters would be attended to, but they never have been.
ql in ny
Time to renew the spirit of Emma Goldman.
May the 'icky' factor have less to do with women's bodies and more to do with say, ripping a fetus with arms, legs and a head out of a womb?
Just a thought.
Not really. That thought was aborted, as just a blob of hillbilly-itis. Why don't you head off to Iraq, and rip the arms, legs and heads off a few 8-year-olds?
and i hope science finds a way to impregnate men
Easier to develop birth control pills for males to take -- and to allow birth control to be paid for as viagra is paid for.
Hadrian of course fixed the boundaries of the Roman Empire.
which is why despite being a good military man is often regulated to second place to Trajan.
Under Trajan the Roman Empire reached its greatest extent. Hadrian, upon becoming ruler, returned Mesopotamia to Parthian rule. However, all the other territories conquered by Trajan were retained.
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
That comment right there is enough for you to be shunned by any sane person.
doug, *strange*
For me, being forced to use one's body to support the life of another is slavery. You have a garden that brings you pleasure? Good. You have a field of cotton that you have no choice in working? Slavery.
A human cannot be legally forced to use his/her body to support the life or wellbeing or finances of another person.
The only real freedom we have is the freedom to use our physical bodies as we see fit. All other freedom is a mirage without that.
you see the Romans loved military glory and the loot which they gained but they did not like the responbility of running a province.
its why in the more peaceful provinces their present was miminal.
the local elites would often be left to rule.
PBS did a very good doc on the Roman invasion of Britain and Bodicea's last stand, very good historical reenactments, I thought.
Easier to develop birth control pills for males to take -- and to allow birth control to be paid for as viagra is paid for.
There have been some experimental ones. The problem so far with them is that what's been tried, as methods to lower the sperm count, also lowers the libido in men.
being proficient in military matters was an important way for a Roman Emperor to establish his creditentials.
its why Claudius (a unmilitary Emperor) invaded Britain, there was no real reason to but he needed to prove he was a military man and not show weakness.
Australian foreplay:
"Brace yourself, Shelia."
I apologize in advance for any offense the preceding joke may have given.
Rage Time
I'm utterly offended/amused by that joke...
ts why Claudius (a unmilitary Emperor) invaded Britain, there was no real reason to but he needed to prove he was a military man and not show weakness.
I hear tell that sometimes history repeats itself.
Super Bowl Broadcast to Have Tape Delay By LYNN ELBER, AP Television Writer
LOS ANGELES - ABC is putting a five-second defensive line between the Super Bowl and television viewers.
The tape delay, for the game itself as well as the pre-game, halftime and post-game entertainment, is an apparent echo of the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction" that marred the 2004 broadcast on CBS.
The delay, according to ABC, is the first-ever in the 40-year history of the Super Bowl
I am so sick of this chickenshit. every-fucking-day some little push backwards
Cladius 3rd wife Messalina has a very poor repudation.
A number of Roman historians (mainly Tacitus and Suetonius) portray her as a cruel, avaricious, foolish nymphomaniac who had many wild affairs and once challenged a notorious Roman prostitute named Scylla to an all-night sex competition. (Scylla gave up at dawn when both women had each had 25 lovers, but Messalina continued well into the morning.) She duped Claudius and manipulated him into executing those who displeased or spurned her. She is also recorded as a lover of parties and festivities as well as an enthusiastic player of court politics who sold her influence to Roman nobles and foreign notables. Her name is now used as a synonym for others with her supposed vices.
Victorian foreplay "close your eyes and think of England"
With apologies to Moonbootica and any and all who might be offended by that comment etc....
I am so sick of this chickenshit. every-fucking-day some little push backwards
It's the nanny state, and the regime is the nanny.
And really the discussion we should be having is providing affordable, safe child care for working women. Instead we are fighting battles with nitwits that were decided over thirty years ago. 68% of Americans want Roe left alone.
(insert southern state of your choice here) foreplay:
"Hey sis, you awake?"
I apologize in advance for any offense the preceding joke may have given.
Or not.
I'm sorry that you find the comparison offensive. But to me, there really is no difference. The blastocyst you refer to will, if left unmolested, most likely grow into a human being.
At what point do you deny that collection of cells its humanity?
2 cells? 8? 64? 128? Millions?
The sanctity of human life begins right from the start or it has no meaning later on.
I'll say it again, we need a sane policy of birth control and comprehensive programs to care for ALL babies no matter what their circumstance of birth.
Caligua's vices are infamous of course (tho when considering sources you have to take into account that the author might have an agenda and may of exaggerated the stores).
Why do you find my thought ridiculous? At least most slaves weren't killed outright with no chance of appeal.
Most slaves were not living in someone else's body.
--
The only real freedom we have is the freedom to use our physical bodies as we see fit. All other freedom is a mirage without that.
Marcia Brady
Well said.
I'm utterly offended/amused by that joke...
Whereas , when the rabid little men come frothing about making remarks about scientists and women, you are not amused?
I know I'm not, except insofar as such droolers are in fact fit to be a playtoy.
a saying from Petronius did the rounds "It profits a man more to develope his penis than to develop his mind"
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Well. I'm glad i'm on the right track.
And I'm sorry our anti-abortion troll hasn't any concept of "law", which states, by majority rule, that a fetus isn't a person. That's the law, you fucking twit. And the lying hypocrites that make electoral hay by demonizing a legal medical procedure have had 5 years to do somethng about it, and haven't made a move. So STFU.
Uncle Smokes foreplay: Soap and water
[That joke was for Jocelyn Elders. ]
The problem so far with them is that what's been tried, as methods to lower the sperm count, also lowers the libido in men.
doug, *strange*
So a combination of birth control/Cialis? Huh? Huh?
I should go into marketing.
Caligua was origially quite popular because his predcessor Tiberius was loathed.
too boost his popularity he empitied the vast treasury of the penny pinching Tiberius and squanded it on games.
Caligua loved to show off and make a spectucle of himself, he would proudly show off the size of his penis and he used the games as a chance to expose himself to the crowds.
Fundie foreplay:
BOHICA
Caligua's vices are infamous of course
Calligula means Li'l Boots, doesn't it? Where else have I seen that name....?
[I wish our version would get laid. and we'd be better off with horses in our Senate. Replace Lieberman with Mr Ed. Somebody start and ActBlue page!!]
The blastocyst you refer to will, if left unmolested, most likely grow into a human being.
Wrong, which illustrates your basic ignorance of the subject matter.
Most pregnancies self abort (yes that's where the signal for this is issued from) due to some issue with it's own viability.
So a combination of birth control/Cialis? Huh? Huh?
I should go into marketing.
Marcia Brady ∞, If I remember correctly, I think the libido went to zero. The Cialis, has to amplify something that has some life.
he would proudly show off the size of his penis
Finally, the two Calligulas diverge...
I'll say it again, we need a sane policy of birth control and comprehensive programs to care for ALL babies no matter what their circumstance of birth.
hontlia
You can keep on saying it til you are blue in the face. I too advocate birth control, but I'm also old enough to know that people make mistakes, and birth control sometimes fails.
I'm also old enough to mind my own fucking business and not try to force my own personal beliefs onto others.
nitwit.
yeah Caligula means little boots.
hard to believe someone like Germanicus could of spawned someone like Caligua!
Well, this has been both uplifting and silly.
'Tis a joyful banter, but it's time for some chow.
By for now, and take care of your good selves (the bad selves seem to do just fine on their own)!
It's the nanny state, and the regime is the nanny.
masculine_monica_nyc
limited personal responsibility?
this Country needs to grow the fuck up.
I'm thinking hontlia shouldn't get an abortion if she doesn't want to.
Aggripina is my favorite Roman. I hope the HBO series gets to her.
[I wish our version would get laid. and we'd be better off with horses in our Senate. Replace Lieberman with Mr Ed. Somebody start and ActBlue page!!]
DemByDefault
They can't sneak jimmy/jeff in anymore. More's the pity for the rest of us.
Caligula with no shame flaunted his incestuous relationship with his sister Drusilla.
Caligula was often seen riding through the seedier quaters of the city of Rome with Drusilla, masturbating with one hand and throwing gold coins with the other.
No, the blastocyst, if left alone, will NOT "most likely grow into a human being." It has at least a 50% chance of being spontaneously expelled from the uterus (some scientist say a 2/3 chance, or 66%).
So the blastocyst has at best a 50-50 chance of surviving God (or nature), the most prolific abortionist of all time.
What this all comes down to is you arguing that a clump of cells with at best a 50% chance of becoming an individual human being should have rights that take precedence over the woman, who is a de facto human being with billions or trillions of cells.
If you think the rights of the unborn take precedence over the rights of people already living, you need to get to work outlawing pollution, the depletion of resources, and deficit spending. Because by your own reckoning, we are all the slaves of the not-yet-born.
And really the discussion we should be having is providing affordable, safe child care for working women.
ql, we couldn't possibly be having that discussion because we all know that women with children shouldn't be working. heavens no!
they should all be married to rick sanitarium and bring their fetuses home in a glass jar.
That's the law, you fucking twit. And the lying hypocrites that make electoral hay by demonizing a legal medical procedure have had 5 years to do somethng about it, and haven't made a move. So STFU.
ronjazz, formerly free
And always been. If I remember estate law, a fetus cannot inherit if the parent dies intestate.
Caligula was often seen riding through the seedier quaters of the city of Rome with Drusilla, masturbating with one hand and throwing gold coins with the other.
Well, Shrub would do this in some tasteful neighborhood of MacMansions and Hummers...
They can't sneak jimmy/jeff in anymore. More's the pity for the rest of us.
I'm sure they've found a young republican staffer to replace Jimmy/Jeff. He's just not as visible as the Guckert, so he's not been noticed yet.
The problem so far with them is that what's been tried, as methods to lower the sperm count, also lowers the libido in men.
doug, *strange*
If there's no one to plant the seed, there's no need to worry about a crop.
My Lord!!!! Just accept that you lost for cryin' out loud!!!! You put up your best, Al Gore then John Kerry and you lost!!!! The country knew plenty about Bush after 4 years but they choose to re-elect him. And they gave him majorities in both houses of Congress to boot. Now quit your whining and accept the fact that despite Hollyweird and the media's best attempts, mainstream America wants an America that stands for strong morals and democracy, not some socialist bs you all spew here. Most of you are way too young to understand what you're talking about, you deal in idealism when this is a time for dynamic leadership. You will see when you are older, many of us Republicans started out just like you.
p.s. Why all the name calling by Dems??? Real effective way to communicate.
Marcia Brady ∞, If I remember correctly, I think the libido went to zero. The Cialis, has to amplify something that has some life.
doug, *strange*
I'm sorry. I was kidding. I wasn't implying that I know anything about the subject.
For me, being forced to use one's body to support the life of another is slavery. You have a garden that brings you pleasure? Good. You have a field of cotton that you have no choice in working? Slavery.
A human cannot be legally forced to use his/her body to support the life or wellbeing or finances of another person.
The only real freedom we have is the freedom to use our physical bodies as we see fit. All other freedom is a mirage without that.
Marcia Brady ?
( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
I'm sure they've found a young republican staffer to replace Jimmy/Jeff. He's just not as visible as the Guckert, so he's not been noticed yet.
Are you referring to young Master Deutsch, of the previous discussion?
Caligula's reign was filled with pointless brutality, petty criminals were fed to the lions, on the grounds they were cheaper than buchers meat. After an oratory competition, he forced the losers to erase their wax tablets with their tongues, on pain of death.
I'm sure they've found a young republican staffer to replace Jimmy/Jeff. He's just not as visible as the Guckert, so he's not been noticed yet.
Sprechen die Deutsch?
And always been. If I remember estate law, a fetus cannot inherit if the parent dies intestate.
ql in ny
See, this may be usful.
hard to believe someone like Germanicus could of spawned someone like Caligua!
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Moonbotica, you very lovely, extraordinarily well-read, curious and brilliant young lady, please take note that the phrase "could of" is correctly stated as "could have". At least here in the colonies. I only raise the issue because it jars my think-bone, since I read most of your comments, and learn much.
We now return you to your Saturday Evening Feature, The History Of The Roman Empire.
It is not enough to say we believe in freedom for if we asked people if they do, I am certain the answer would be a unanimous and resounding yes. But, do they really?
This is where I differ from most others. For I believe there are very few of us who truly believe in freedom. Take the abortion question. When I consider the question of abortion it is not a question of religion or morality it becomes a simple test of freedom. Do I have the right to tell someone else what they must do? I would no more be in favor of forced abortion than I would be in prohibiting abortion. It is a question of freedom. We have to live with our own consciences and because of this I would prefer to have the individual make the decision. When I take the responsibility of deciding for someone else I limit my own freedom for I am no longer considering the individual and am instead considering something greater.
Freedom is, by necessity, a personal goal -- not a societal goal. Certainly the society can permit individual freedom but cannot demand it. Look at the way we live. If we valued freedom, why in the world would we sign on for a 30 year mortgage? It makes little sense, for the more our obligations increase the more our freedom decreases. It is a bargain we all deal with at some point. Some seek obligation and responsibility and some do not. Some of us are forced to accept reality and because of this constantly live our lives in a quandary between knowing the beauty and joy of freedom and the bourgeois feeling of knowing and accepting obligation. It always comes to a sort of weird balance scale. On one side we measure the amount of freedom we require and on the other we mount our limits to freedom. Hopefully the scales will balance -- at least tenuously. But sometimes the obligations become more important than the freedom and there is a sort of dissonance that can have an effect on the individual.
After an oratory competition, he forced the losers to erase their wax tablets with their tongues, on pain of death.
Sounds like the Jesuits.
Aggripina is my favorite Roman. I hope the HBO series gets to her.
The little slut.
I'm sorry. I was kidding. I wasn't implying that I know anything about the subject.
Marcia Brady ∞, nothing to apologize for, my libido is just fine, and without any chemical amplifiers.
I miss my wife very much, who's out of town now.
Incest was Caligua's vitium. Denying his descent from a commoner like his grandfather Agrippa, he boasted instead that his mother had been concieved from Augustus incest with his daughter Juila.
the phrase "could of" is correctly stated as "could have".
I was so happy to a Brit do that. I have suffered much condescension at the hands of Europeans.
If humans really believed in the sanctity of life, there would be no wars.
The problem so far with them is that what's been tried, as methods to lower the sperm count, also lowers the libido in men.
doug, *strange*
If there's no one to plant the seed, there's no need to worry about a crop.
Muad'Dib
Yeah, but somebody still has to pull the weeds every now and then.
--
psst tena, over here.
what's the significance of your signoff above?
don't tell anyone I asked, i don't want everyone to think i'm square.
See, this may be usful.
Marcia Brady ∞
or "useful" to those among us who can type...
( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
At what point do you deny that collection of cells its humanity?
When it's viable outside my uterus. Until then, its a parasite living off me.
Aggripina is my favorite Roman. I hope the HBO series gets to her.
The little slut.
Didn't Graves characterize her as banging the Palace Guard in some sort of contest?
Since blogger still won't load up, I'm thinking it is going to be pretty lonely around here this evening.
damn, i guess i don't care if i'm square or whatever...what's it mean...???
( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
I thought they had to do with the three stages of women's breast.
its why Claudius (a unmilitary Emperor) invaded Britain, there was no real reason to but he needed to prove he was a military man and not show weakness.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Just plug in Bush and Iraq and we've come full circle.
Caligula was often seen riding through the seedier quaters of the city of Rome with Drusilla, masturbating with one hand and throwing gold coins with the other.
Moonbootica, do you know this Titian painting?
http://www.artchive.com/
artchive..._danae.jpg.html
I can't get blogger to refresh. Is anyone else having this problem?
Now hold on a minute, I am no "troll". I have posted here before on may subjects. There's no need to be mean just because I disagree with you.
The bottom line issue is one of when a human life begins and when that life is entitled to protection under the due process clause of the Constitution.
Nobody has been able to prove one way or the other when a process I call "ensoulment" or the humanity of a baby actually begins.
Absent such proof I would prefer to take the cautious approach and treat every life as a human being no matter how young.
As for those who are critical of the notion that existing precedent can be overturned I would commend to their reading the Supreme Court decision in Brown vs. The Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas.
I realize that my opinion with respect to this issue is not popular but I feel that all life is precious and must be nurtured. Not just at the convenience of a few.
Drusilla was Caligua's favourite sister and when she died suddently at the age of 23 a large space had been left, the doctors diagnosed "a surfeit of buggery", she had just finished a marathon 24 hour session with Caligula and several well-endowed lads freshly arrived from Caesariensis (modern day Algeria).
Caligula berated the doctors for not resuscitating her, even though she was stiff and cold, he sodomised her corpse one more time and declared her a godddess.
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
it looked to me like she was going to sleep...
My Lord!!!! Just accept that you lost for cryin' out loud!!!! You put up your best, Al Gore then John Kerry and you lost!!!!
Now HERE'S someone who knows history, to the extent he lives in the past.
Grow up.
Wingnut FEAR alert! People talking about freedom! People pointing out Little Boots' inability to speak a full sentence! People wondering why the administration has so much trouble following the law! Wingnuts, get on the case justifying stolen elections, lying to Congress, and mass murder! Whatever you do, even if you're a fake Texan, don't go fight the enemy! Stay here in your comfy chair and yell at patriots from the sidelines, that'll show them!
TCB, FOAD. Worthless sack of pigshit.
I can't get blogger to refresh. Is anyone else having this problem?
Yep.
Blogger is bloggered.
HaloScam seems to be working but blogger is not. And Jason and the Argonauts set to begin in forty minutes too.
I can't get blogger to refresh. Is anyone else having this problem?
mer
Blogger's buggered.
Again.
they should all be married to rick sanitarium and bring their fetuses home in a glass jar.
her eyes
I think if we can keep our children in glass jars until they're able to support themselves, all these issues are automatically solve.
Ipso fatso. (/Bart)
It is a question of freedom. We have to live with our own consciences and because of this I would prefer to have the individual make the decision. When I take the responsibility of deciding for someone else I limit my own freedom for I am no longer considering the individual and am instead considering something greater.
DWD - I think most of us feel just this way, but no one else could put it so beautifully.
That is what this is about. Just this and nothing more. Are we going to the Mullah model of society - with a social conscience? Or are we going to follow the vision of our founders - that conscience is an individual matter?
I can't get blogger to refresh. Is anyone else having this problem?
mer
yes.
At what point do you deny that collection of cells its humanity?
Until it can breathe on its own.
When the air goes in, the life goes in with it .
When the air ceases to go in, the life goes out.
End of story.
When it's viable outside my uterus. Until then, its a parasite living off me.
One interesting advance in medical science is how far they've extended the viability of neonate births with the assist of life support. If I remember the number correctly, it's approaching 6 months, if every thing works out well, though it does not in many cases. Many of the premies, are such because of some basic problem with them, that had nothing to do with the mother, what she did or her state of health and nutrition.
(neo-nat life support machinery was one thing I used to do.)
"Since blogger still won't load up, I'm thinking it is going to be pretty lonely around here this evening."
--ql in ny
Maybe this could be the first 3,000 comment thread!
I can't get it to work either.
Muad'Dib that would be Cladius 3rd wife Messalina', she competed with a Roman prositute called Scylla in an all night sex compeition (Scylla gave up at dawn when both women had each had 25 lovers, but Messalina continued well into the morning)
all life is precious and must be nurtured
And women's lives are at the least-valued end of your continuum of concern.
Gee, I thought we'd been rather polite. It's just that when you start imposing your views on my body, I kind of resent it.
nitwit.
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Makes perfect sense if you believe you're a god.
hontlia,
Okay, then consider this suppostion:
Resolved: no child may be brought to term unless the parents can prove that they will be effective parents and have the necessary means and temperment to raise child. Otherwise the fetus must be aborted.
You would not like this antithesis, eh?
Think, please: it is not too hard and you may enjoy the process.
her eyes - ( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
the equivalent in Japanese smileys of "I bow in your general direction", or, "that was a great comment and I agree", or "Word."
I realize that my opinion with respect to this issue is not popular but I feel that all life is precious and must be nurtured. Not just at the convenience of a few.
hontlia
hontlia, I believe that life begins before conception. Yet I still support abortion on demand. If you had seen the ways that life has been treated that I have seen, abortion would be the least of your concerns.
hontlia, your opinion is worthless, since you don't seem to understand the LAW. If gawd gave everyone a "Soul" upon conception, then She would probably not abort 50% of pregnancies Herself. Your opinion is based on ignorance and fear, and your dismissal of the rights of the "few" confer trollness upon you. It's not unlike Our Leaders regretting "collateral damage".
Can't refresh here either. For the last 1/2 hour at least.
after the death of Drusilla, Caligula took his two suriving sisters, Agrippina and Livilla as lovers - even tho it was said that he did not love them as much as he had loved Drusilla and that he prostitued them to his catamites.
...when this is a time for dynamic leadership.
hey chilibeant,
Why did bush refuse to testy under oath and insist cheney accompany him in front of the republican controlled 9/11 commission?
more moral or dynamic?
Tena (blushing) thanks.
If you are interested, that is an excerpt from my book Declaration and Testament. The entire thing is filled with stuff like that. (no publisher though)
Muad'Dib that would be Cladius 3rd wife Messalina', she competed with a Roman prositute called Scylla in an all night sex compeition (Scylla gave up at dawn when both women had each had 25 lovers, but Messalina continued well into the morning)
Thanks Moon, that's right. I always admired her her victory over a skilled professional. Shows you can accomplish most anything if you set your mind to it.
Caligula took his two suriving sisters, Agrippina and Livilla as lovers - Caligula took his two suriving sisters, Agrippina and Livilla as lovers -
And that Agrippina was Nero's mother?
One interesting advance in medical science is how far they've extended the viability of neonate births with the assist of life support. If I remember the number correctly, it's approaching 6 months
Yep. 26 weeks is about the earliest premature birth they can feasibly save without having brain stem issues. They have to often be put on assisted breathing machines (EKMO?). I think the smallest they have saved are about one pound (they actually measure in grams).
An interesting aside, girls are usually much more fighters to live than boys.
Tena, you never answered our questions.
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
I'm having a hard time believing that this didn't work...
The main page just refreshed for me.
I realize that my opinion with respect to this issue is not popular but I feel that all life is precious and must be nurtured. Not just at the convenience of a few.
hontlia
You insist upon your own goddamned definition of "life" - that's just for starters.
You can't impose your fucking frame of reference on the discussion and then get pissed when you are called on it. You presume way too much.
Tena--wow! teh kewl!
but because of my fascination with eyes, i thought you might nodding off, and i thought marcia's comment was a good one!
When he married his sisters off, he attended the wedding and then he took them back to his house, warning their new husbands "not to take liberties with my wife". He also openly had sex with then in front of their husbands. Later he banished them.
QL, yes she did.
"her eyes - ( ^.^)( -.-)( _ _)
the equivalent in Japanese smileys of "I bow in your general direction", or, "that was a great comment and I agree", or "Word."
Tena"
An interesting aside, girls are usually much more fighters to live than boys.
chris/tx
It has to do with the surfactants in the lungs. If you have a preemie, hope for a girl.
DemByDefault yep the very same one
The main page just refreshed for me.
DemByDefault
Any new posts?
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
I'm having a hard time believing that this didn't work...
Marcia Brady ∞
Got some ashes?
When the air goes in, the life goes in with it .
When the air ceases to go in, the life goes out.
End of story.
Rage Time
WORD! How elegant...
I'm having a hard time believing that this didn't work...
Marcia Brady ∞
Got some ashes?
Can I watch?
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Talk about getting your ashes hauled!
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Talk about getting your ashes hauled!
Blogger is on the wacky tabaccy tonight.
"niece and wife of Claudius"...so they had a healthy thing going.
Next time somebody talks to me about the 2000 year old sacred tradition of marriage, I'm going to go all Classical and Cesarian on their ass
(EKMO?).
ECMO
Extracorporeal Membrane oxygenation.
Very like a heart lung machine used in heart surgeries,butECMO is used forlonger periodsof time. The blood leaves the body through a cannula,is run through a semipermeable membrane, cleansed ,oxygenated and pumped back into the body.
Very, very, very icky.
Any new posts?
Nope, and now it won't load again.
I'm having a hard time believing that this didn't work...
Marcia Brady ∞
Got some ashes?
Can I watch?
Mind if I contribute?
Caligua ate and drank to excess and had sex with any man or woman who took his fancy. None dared refuse him. He would then publicly recount in detail the performance of his lover. He counted the beautiful pantomine actor, Marcus Lepidus Mnester, among his gave lovers and kissed him in public, even - scanalously - in the theatre. He also had an affair with his own brother-in-law and hostages were forced to have sex with him.
When the air ceases to go in, the life goes out.
Does assisted ventilation count?
even tho she was cremated, he tried to revive her by masturbating into her ashes.
Talk about getting your ashes hauled!
Bravo!! Bravissimo!!
Said with a cheesy Italian accent.
(or Brava, as the case may be...)
Tena, you never answered our questions.
ql in ny
I must not have seen your questions - I've been here and gone again all day -
Care to re-ask?
Caligula's passion for Pyrallis, a common prostitue, was even more notorious. And there was no women of rank with whom he did not make free. He would invite a bunch of senators to dinner and would assess their wives as though he was purchasing a slave. If any dropped her head modestly, he would reach out and lift it again. Some were sent divorce papers in the name of their husbands, which were then filed in the public records.
About 30+ minutes ago I couldn't use http://atrios.blogspot.com/ to get back here. I played thru multiple site urls and finally go here. While scrolling up I noticed someone else having the same issue. Is there an east coast issue or serve/hub issue?
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W For Wanker Bush on 9/11, and during Katrina, not to mention the successful taking down of Al Qaeda and Osama, and his very strong stance against the oil producers' price gouging, where he "jawboned" them to make sure that, for instance, ExxonMobil kept their profits for last year to below 40 billions.
Some dynamic fucking leadership. Let them successfully attack us, then let them get away, then pay them for it. Very nice. TCB, I have to admit it, you may be even less intelligent than Chimpy McCokespoon.
i think i am having troubles as well refreshing blogger.
i think all the problems with halosuck and blogger today are the repukes attempt to silence the one true voice left, that of the online news.
and it is failing miserably, like everything else they've tried...
Ok - We all square on Q & A?
My dinner has arrived and none too soon. Caligula is beginning to make me queasy.
Night bats. Let's hope blogger fixes itself.
i think talking about the emperors sex lives has scared off the trolls!
Caligula's passion ...
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Now was it Caligula that did the big wife-swapping party with the Roman hoity-toity, which pretty much pushed them over the edge?
Muad'Dib yep!
i think talking about the emperors sex lives has scared off the trolls!
Well, you did convince me my sex life has been rather tame compared to Caligula.
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W
that troll's turned tail. the question about needing cheney at hearings is like vaginas to them-
shall I move onto Chimpy's other model - Nero?
mmmmm. vaginas!
Tena--
you are a goddess, and you rock, imho.
shall I move onto Chimpy's other model - Nero?
Moonbootica
Please do!
Now was it Caligula that did the big wife-swapping party with the Roman hoity-toity, which pretty much pushed them over the edge?
One of the patricians wound up with Kevin Kline instead of Sigourney Weaver, and they decided Li'l Boots had to go.
I'm now picturing the Bush admiinistration at a key party. Loser get Lynn Cheney. By definition.
What about this blogger...just came on about an hour ago.
If I'm not mistaken, I would say we're experiencing a denial of service attack...someone hitting this site faster than it can acknowledge which slows it down to a point where its totally useless.
Here is my final thought on abortion, so after this, all controversy should reasonably cease.
There was a man in Texas, I believe, some years ago who was sued by the mother of his son (10-yrs-old) to be tested as a kidney donor or bone marrow donor or something like that. He refused. The courts sided with the father's choice to use his body as he saw fit, even to the detriment of a child he produced.
Do I think he should have provided anything to help his son live? Of course. Would I offer my own heart as a transplant to either of my daughters, both biological or adopted? No question.
Should there be a law requiring me to use my body to support the life of another human? Absolutely not.
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W
In terms of masturbating into the ashes of his presidency in vainglorious effort to revive it?
I'm now picturing the Bush admiinistration at a key party. Loser get Lynn Cheney. By definition.
Or Liddy Dole and a gerbil.
I'm now picturing the Bush admiinistration at a key party. Loser get Lynn Cheney. By definition.
Or Liddy Dole and a gerbil.
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W
In terms of masturbating into the ashes of his presidency in vainglorious effort to revive it?
There's a great blooper reel at C&L
cont. with tales of Caligula....
his behaviour became increasingly inhuman, he would close the graneries so that the people would go hungry or he would scatter free tickets among the crowds, causing stampedes in which many people died. He put on contests between mangy beasts and people who were cripple and infirm. When one contestant complained he had their tongue cut out before being made to return back to the arena.
I must not have seen your questions - I've been here and gone again all day -
Care to re-ask?
Tena
Should the proper term be "manimal" or "animan"?
What about this blogger...just came on about an hour ago.
anonymous,
It's been on and off squirrely since yesterday.
If I'm not mistaken, I would say we're experiencing a denial of service attack
Wondered about that given the topic.
Mind if I contribute?
Muad'Dib
I'll need a resume...
Who runs blogger? Do I need to contribute some dollars to blogger so it can function correctly?
This is icky.
I would say we're experiencing a denial of service attack...
It's all the blogger sites, though. Mine is having trouble too.
I worry about my dozen of fans.
her eyes - oh my.
thanks
The anagram of blogger is National Security Administration.
Probably.
It's been on and off squirrely since yesterday.
digby's out too- freeperville loads instantly though
bebe rebozo: Or Liddy Dole and a gerbil.
Would it be a faux pas to simply request the gerbil?
.
Wow. I have to admit to being taken aback by the viciousness of the attacks on me simply because I advocate the caring option.
I have yet to see a reasonable argument against the notion that ensoulment (and thus humanity and, therefore Constitutional protection) begins at conception.
Those that point out that as many as 50% of blastocysts self-abort as a reason why very young life is unworthy of protection ignore the proposition that all life is fragile and can die for any number of reasons.
Earthquakes, hurricanes and tsunamis also claim lives, apparently at random. The logical extension of the arguments of the pro-abortion advocates is that those lives were for some reason not worth preserving.
What a lack of compassion!
Should there be a law requiring me to use my body to support the life of another human? Absolutely not
What bums me out totally is the gutting of basic research and education (or what was that 40billiong reduction in education and other entitlements about?) of all kinds.
A clearer understanding of human reproduction, could make much of this debate moot, but the fundies don't want that.
Even being sure that teenagers had a basic working knowledge of how pregnancy happens and what to do so that it does not is anathema to them.
Imagine the screams if a "health" class had a model of a womans anatomy so that the guys would know how to place a diaphram accurately. (all young guys should know about this and other birth control methods.)
right thats enuff about Caligula - you get the idea
now onto Nero the last of the Julio-Claudian dynasty.
now Nero did not stand a chance of developing as a normal human being. His father Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus was renown to brutality (the gens Domitia had produced many Generals over the years), and he was no exception. Augustus actually had to reprimand him for the bloodthirsty games he put on and prosecuted him. He ran over a child on the Appian Way for fun, killed one of his freedmen for not drinking as much as he was told and ripped out another man's eye in the Forum.
Sounds like a server/software issue...perhaps a microsoft server upgrade that still had a few kinks to be ironed out. it's not only this url, Edicine, Hecate, and a few others I tried had the same issue, server resetting itself before the page loaded. Sounds like they are all using the same ISP or something of a similiar nature.
I got the main page to open, no new posts.
Tried again and it's FUBARed.
cont. with tales of Caligula....
his behaviour became increasingly inhuman
The interesting thing about the Romans, and other civilizations too, was the ease with which harsh injury was inflicted on others.
Does assisted ventilation count?
Yes, I woud say so. Many preemies would not be able to sustain themselves without a vent or ECMO. They try to breathe, the stimulus to breathe is there but the muscle strength to maintain respiration and the volume of air they are able to move is insufficient to life. They are humans who need life support. My opinion.
But a blastocyte is not. It is not breathing for itself, and it can not breathe for itself.
The fact remains that when a person expires, it literally means he has ceased to respire or breathe.
What a lack of compassion!
Indeed. Your lack of empathy is rather startling.
I'm now reminded of the Dynamic Leadership of W
In terms of masturbating into the ashes of his presidency in vainglorious effort to revive it?
Imagine a Bush motorcade where protesters were masturbating on it from the tops of buildings?
His handlers would have to tell him it was snowing.
Mind if I contribute?
Muad'Dib
I'll need a resume...
Marcia Brady ∞
Where should I send it?
Imagine the screams if a "health" class had a model of a womans anatomy so that the guys would know how to place a diaphram accurately. (all young guys should know about this and other birth control methods.)
doug, *strange*
In my daughter's health class, she saw a picture of a penis she said looked like a potato with eyes -- from venereal warts.
I'm pretty sure she'll be entering a convent.
"viciousness of the attacks on me simply because I advocate the caring option."
But nasty, condescending passive aggression is okay in your book...
I just don't respond well to emotional arguments, and your comparison of the abortion question to slavery was stupid and offensive.
Under Tiberius he was charged with treason, adultery and incest with his sister - and was only spared due to the accession of the like minded Caligula. Fortunately Ahenobarbus died when Nero was three, leaving the child to learn everything he needed to know about murder, cruelty and sexual peversion from his wicked mother.
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
let me ask you about compassion, how do you "nuture" the life of a 90 year old cancer patient who begs you everyday to let her die because the pain is unbearable?
hontlia,
[]:::::::: You have just been sprayed with Troll-Be-Gone.
I asked a legitimate question: You failed to answer instead descending into a diatribe of self-pity. If you will not answer questions or consider, then fuck you.
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
Forcing a rape victim to bring her attacker's child to term is VERY compassionate.
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
Forcing a rape victim to bring her attacker's child to term is VERY compassionate.
Rage Time --
That was actually a part of my sermon of the Feast of the Baptism of our Lord -- the breath is the Spirit of life -- that Baptism is our new birth into Christ -- I didn't come right out and say, "So abortion is okay, get it?" -- I expect a certain level of sophistication from our congregations (we are Episcopalians after all)
Tena -- I suspected that was the meaning of your caligraphy, but was assuming everybody knew but me (frequently the case)
Muad'Dib its not suprising the Romans were about violence and sex.
the history of Rome began with a famous rape - the rape of the Sabine women.
cont. with tales of Caligula....
his behaviour became increasingly inhuman
The interesting thing about the Romans, and other civilizations too, was the ease with which harsh injury was inflicted on others.
The tales of debauchery are more interesting. Let's hear more Messalina stories Moon.
then fuck you.
Whooo, DWD, is a much more gentle person then me and many others. You've screwed up big time to have that honor.
the history of Rome began with a famous rape - the rape of the Sabine women.
Yes, but that had more to do with geo-politics as I recall, and as you point out led to the formation of the greatest of early western civilzations. Our legal system does have its origin in ancient Rome, does it not?
Prior,
Pneuma
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
I have already said that I would gladly give up my life to save either of my children. I may even be willing to give up my life or wellbeing to save your children.
But I don't believe that there should be a law requiring me to do so.
I'm done now.
Doug,
What makes America so different is its religious view of sex. Here in Europe, it's nothing. You see it every day in print and on the TV. Not in your face sex, but the appearance of sexual pleasure and fantasy are played out in all sorts of advertising. Hell, if you go the the public swimming pool, everyone strips to the buff and puts on their bathing suits in public..no modesty allowed.
If one can't get past the sight of a naked body of the opposite sex in public then the society's view on abortion will be a roller-coaster ride.
hontlia | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 6:49
Why don't you go have a baby and take care of it? Wish you well. I don't see anyone here trying to stop you.
Messalina was very young when she married Claudius (she was 17, he was 4 and she proved too hot to handle. She had an over-active libido
She was so horny, that at night she would visit Rome's brothels and hire herself out as a whore.
Even that did not sastify her and it was said she sent out scouts to find "men capable of assuaging her instiable lubricity", but in the end none really could sastify her.
Ummm. Romulus and Remus? (I love mythology, you know?)
(I still cannot believe I made a perfectly good Audhumla joke the other day and no one laughed. )
What a lack of compassion!
hontlia
what
ever.
Told you - the troll lives behind the Xian curtain - she is in purdah from the truth.
Rage Time --
Ruach
I feel shame for my lack of compassion.
Messalina was not the only high-born woman to hire herself out as a whore.
Many Roman matrons found it a creative way to get round the strict laws on adultery, which forbid them to have sex with with anyone except their husbands, getting caught would result in loss of property.
Suetonius said "Married women from well known families were escaping punishment for their adulteries by renouching the priveleges of their rank in society"
Half Fastskier--where in europe are you?
I have already said that I would gladly give up my life to save either of my children. I may even be willing to give up my life or wellbeing to save your children.
But I don't believe that there should be a law requiring me to do so.
I'm done now.
Marcia Brady ∞
Fortunately, you don't have to today. Now let's pay attention to Moon because she's a veritable wellspring of important information.
(So where do I send my resume?)
Marcia Brady, very astute. I have always compared mandatory pregnancy-completion to the Lack of a Duty to enable another's survival by, say, kidney donation. When we make it a law that anyone who has two kidneys is required to donate one to anyone who needs it, then mandatory pregnancy-completion makes at least some sense. But I certainly don't want that. (although I have always made my intent to be an organ donor, either after death or if anyone needs my living organ, perfectly clear to family and the DMV).
Another little point on respiration. When I was in Brazil 35 years ago and birth control was absolutely forbidden in that RC country, I was told that there were certain midwives who would, upon request, close the legs of the birthing mother so that the baby would never draw breath and thus be stillborn, with no guilt or penalty to the mother. Kind of crude as an abortifacient, but acceptable there and in that time. There probably were herbal abortifacients, etc., but I didn't get to hear about them.
Marcia Brady,
I agree with your point of view. No one has trhe right to determine what you can or cannot do with your own body regardless of the circumstances...you own it.
If the individual did not have that exclusive right, then a panel of Judges could decide that you must donate a specific organ to save the life of another regardless of your own personal view on the matter. People are not organ farms to be harvested because someone is in need.
Debating this here is a waste. Atrios is not smart on this. It's all vaguely defined demogogery.
You might as well debate drinking or sex. Without any clearer definitions all these arguments are BS.
hontlia, your silly "ensoulment" argument is based on your opinion that god exists. Those who disagree with that premise are necessarily having a difficult time with your followup. Besides the fact that it's a totally emotional take, irrationally so in my opinion, it (I repeat) has nothing to do with the law. I oppose the death penalty, I consider war and violence evidence of great failure, and I consider humans who can condone the violent taking of a life for any reason to be far behind on the evolutionary trail. I honor life, even unto the animals (I eat no meat). And yet, i fully support a woman's right to choose abortion on demand. Why? Because i'm a reasonable, fully-evolved human who understands that a fetus is a potential human at best. A mother is a fully-realized human. In all cases, human feti that survive to birth do so at the choice of the mother. Be thankful, even in your unenlightened state.
Human life is way overrated.
her eyes,
at the moment, Germany...soon to be off to Italy. where are you?
Messalina was very young when she married Claudius (she was 17, he was 4 and she proved too hot to handle. She had an over-active libido
First, you give good history Moon.
Next, consider the plight of poor Messalina. She's just flowering and look what she's stuck with, a stammering cripple who just happens to be emperor. What young girl riding the crest of Roman society would be satisfied with that, particularly once she grew into a woman, with a woman's needs?
Messalina had one goal in life and that was to ensure her son would be put on the throne.
so she began bumping off the potential rivals.
first she had Caligula's sister Livilla killed. Next she denouched Julia, the daughter of Tiberius dead son Drusus for immorality. A bonus was destroying the repduation of the prefect of the Praetorian Guard, who was about to tell Claudius about what she got up too at night, this had another postive development for her because it left a position to be filled by one of her lovers, therefore strengthening her position even more.
she sent out scouts to find "men capable of assuaging her instiable lubricity", but in the end none really could sastify her.
See, there's probably something else going on there.
her eyes,
at the moment, Germany...soon to be off to Italy. where are you?
Half FastSkier | 02.04.06 - 7:07 pm | #
i'm in central ma, and quite jealous of you right now..
she sent out scouts to find "men capable of assuaging her instiable lubricity", but in the end none really could sastify her.
I don't understand. Was she 30w40?
Messalina was not the only high-born woman to hire herself out as a whore.
Many Roman matrons found it a creative way to get round the strict laws on adultery, which forbid them to have sex with with anyone except their husbands, getting caught would result in loss of property.
Girls just wanna have fun.
Interesting about the gladiators though. Again, the well born women of Rome would patronize the gladiators for favors, although there was more to it than just the sex. There always is.
Interesting about the gladiators though. Again, the well born women of Rome would patronize the gladiators for favors, although there was more to it than just the sex. There always is.
Gladiators were good listeners.
Interesting about the gladiators though. Again, the well born women of Rome would patronize the gladiators for favors, although there was more to it than just the sex. There always is.
Gladiators were good listeners.
Jeez, who kidnapped chucky and made him come here? Believe it or not, chuck, you're free to go.
her eyes,
Yeah, I'm off to Italy once I get my paperwork straighten out and my work visa. Gonna be near Venice in a small rural area at the foothills of the Italian Alps. Life is hard, but I'm up to the task.
Abortion, by definition, IS an emotional issue. If you can't respond to my arguments in an adult and analytical way, that is not my problem.
Thank the Goddess. It's as if Blogger left me all alone on an island away from my pipple. How weird is that?
OK -- I'm late for recreation, so I'm off & then to Compline, then I'll check back in -- please get blogger fixed while I'm out
While Claudius was busy in Britain, Messalina contiued her affairs.
However not all fell to her charm, the imperious Appian Silanus rejected her, so when Cladius got back she took her revenge with one of his freedmen Narcissus.
Claudius later informed the senate that Narcissus had burst into his room and told him he had had a dream that Silanus was plotting to murder him. th dream was presented as prima facie aganist him.
Messalina sent a message to Silanus summoning him to meet the emperor, then told Claudius that she had dreamt about Silanus assassniated him several nights in a row, then omg! Silanus turned up in the middle of the night. Case closed, he was arrested and executed.
ooops.
i b'lieve bloggers bloggered again...
Gonna be near Venice in a small rural area at the foothills of the Italian Alps. Life is hard, but I'm up to the task.
oh, how lovely for you...
do you speak many languages?
Gladiators were good listeners.
spinoza
My thinking too.
Hecate,
I tried to get to your site earlier nd got a no response...hope you get a rebate for the time loss.
What do you call a smiling Roman with pubic hair in his teeth?
Gladiator.
Where does it say that the definition of abortion is emotional? You're again being irrational. And now you've added troll projection.
A shame, really. You want the law to force everybody to think like you, while I would like humans to lawfully be free to make their own decisions. How childish of me.
I think Blogger is on drugs. I have no other explanation. Must have been my amazing post on why we don't really have a volunteer Army.
So Moon, she must have had something going for her. You think? I mean it never pays to screw around with the emperor's wife, particularly when it's the Roman emporer.
her eyes,
barely. it's easy to catch on what people are saying, if they don't get too excited. everyone speaks english nowaday in europe.
once in Italy, i'll have lots of time to kick back and catch up. need to relearn my italian, french and german. that rosetta stone language software is suppose to be the best and i have a language tutor set up to re-introduce me back into italian culture once i get down there.
Messalina could neither curb her ambition or sexual appetite, still in her mid-20s and married to a man in his late 50s, she fell for the handsome and young consul-designate Gaius Suilius.
While Claudius was in Ostia, she married Silius in a Bacchic ceremony.
it all ended in tears, Clauidus was informed of her bad behaviour by Narcissus and well she ended up being stabbed to death.
Repost your volunteer army post if you can, please, Hecate. I like it when you carry on.
Hecate,
you don't think its a denial of service attack?
What do you call a smiling Roman with pubic hair in his teeth?
Gladiator.
Central Scrutinizer
No comment.
Muad'Dib well she was sex crazed and married to a older man which was combined with a burning ambition.
it is not suprising what she did and how she ended up well dead.
ooops.
i b'lieve bloggers bloggered again...
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka
I believe you may be right. Although we can have a party here, but I'm out of red wine.
BTW, what is the "aka" for?
here probably were herbal abortifacients,
Of course there are.
"Must have been my amazing post on why we don't really have a volunteer Army."
--Hecate Malificent
Blogger is bogged. I went to clean up the kitchen, looking for a refresh when I returned.
Hopefully, it's not permanent.
perhaps blogger needs to get laid or something?
No comment.
Muad'Dib
None neccesary.
best of luck to you Half FastSkier!
i love other languages and regret i didn't learn more of them. when you are young is the time to do it. but heck, i may just take a class in something this summer, if i can find something interesting close by.
mainpage just reloaded, but noo new posts.
mainpage just reloaded, but noo new posts.
Abortion, by definition, IS an emotional issue. If you can't respond to my arguments in an adult and analytical way, that is not my problem.
hontlia
I feel like hontlia is ignoring me. I'm sure I'm just being emotional, though.
it's 1:18 am here. nite all
you don't think its a denial of service attack?
If it is, then it's against blogspot.
I've ran several tests on random blogspot sites and eventually it comes back with that xyz.blogspot.com site not being avalible.
Perhaps I should take this opportunity to go buy beer.
While Claudius was in Ostia, she married Silius in a Bacchic ceremony.
Before we bid adieu to fair Messalina, can you offer some background on just what a Bacchic ceremony might have entailed?
The Romans. See, you should only be able to get away with that stuff in a dictatorship. The biggest dif between those folks and today's pretenders of the GOP is that our current overlords seem to hate fun, especially ours. Georgie only throws games that involve him inconveniencing the US military for a couple of days so he can land on a carrier to lie. His reaction to the Dems standing O on SS was to let them know that "entitlements" were on the table, like a cheap capo hood.
Give me the Romans any day. Where would we be without Italians, and, on the other hand, how did we get stuck wth these bleach-white waspy sociopaths?
here probably were herbal abortifacients,
Of course there are.
Hecate Malificent
And there still are. The internets can be a wonderful source of dissemination of information, if you get my meaning.
I kept getting messages stating that the page requested was re-written as it was loading.
whatever.
good nite all.
it's 1:18 am here. nite all
Half FastSkier
I want to be where you are, or thereabouts.
Muad'Dib a Bacchic ceremony invovles lots of orgies and wine basically.
tho its not the same as the Bacchanalia., which was only attended by women on three days in the year at the he grove of Simila near the Aventine Hill.
well gang, i've enjoyed this tremendously, but i must get ready for my long night of sleeplessness, although i'm going to try Woody's recipe of focusing on relaxing different body parts tonight, and see if that helps...
night all!
remember: if it ain't broke, a repuke hasn't been near it yet.
Perhaps I should take this opportunity to go buy beer.
Marcia Brady ∞
Grab some rubbers while you're there, this could be a long night.
Prior-
Ruach/Pneuma
I'm afraid my southern mediterranean roots are showing.
IMO, pneuma is among the most glorious of words
well its only 12:25 am here in Great Britain.
Where would we be without Italians
Donegal?
Grab some rubbers while you're there, this could be a long night.
Muad'Dib
Anything else?
Where would we be without Italians
Donegal?
Thers, Insolent Partisan (F)
Etruscia?
So what would have become of you if your grandmother aborted your mother?
Muad'Dib well she was sex crazed and married to a older man which was combined with a burning ambition.
it is not suprising what she did and how she ended up well dead.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Maybe I'm a little more understanding. I think the sex was more acting out than hedonism. The Romans understood hedonism though, and that was the weapon she chose doubtless because it cut deepest.
I'm trying to recall, but didn't she have a thing for someone else before the Claudius marriage was arranged?
Abortion, by definition, IS an emotional issue. If you can't respond to my arguments in an adult and analytical way, that is not my problem.
No, your problem, at least in the sentence above seems to be reconciling things that can't be reconciled, ie, emotion and analysis.
If it's emotional, then by definition, it's not rational and therefore not subject to analytics.
Seems to me the one who is emotional and relying on faith....is you.
her eyes, Ambien CR works for me
I am not ignoring you. n Just too many comments to respond to. I'm fixing dinner for my family now
returning to Nero.
without a male figure in his life, he naturally turned to his mother, where he developed an incesteous passion for her and so she had great influence over him which worried her enemies.
Nero was 17 when Claudius died in AD 54 but his mother ruled as regent.
She aimed to control her son by putting him under the control of Sextus Afranius Burrus, who owed his position as prefect of the Praetorian Guard to her and the Stoic philospher Lucius Annaeus Seneca, who was a protégé of Agrippinia the Younger, even though Caligula had wanted to kill him.
So what would have become of you if your grandmother aborted your mother?
I'd have missed a whole lot of grief and I would never have known it.
Anything else?
Marcia Brady ∞
KY
Been gone awhile.
Glad I kept this open.
Blogspot is hosed?
.
Muad'Dib i'm not sure.
Messalina was closely related to the Julio-Claudian dynasty and had been a regular at the court of Caligula.
So what would have become of you if your grandmother aborted your mother?
Hey-yo!
I am not ignoring you. n Just too many comments to respond to. I'm fixing dinner for my family now
hontlia
Sure you are, sweetie, but that's okay. Go make dinner for your family. My baby helps me make dinner.
I'm pretty much finished, anyway.
Been gone awhile.
Glad I kept this open.
Blogspot is hosed?
Haiku?
KY
Muad'Dib
Really? Okay...
tho its not the same as the Bacchanalia., which was only attended by women on three days in the year at the he grove of Simila near the Aventine Hill.
Derived from the Greek Dionysian rites yes? See, I'll google after. I'm working from memory here.
Now as I recall, if you were a man you didn't want to get caught near where the girls were partying in homage to Dionysus as it could cost you your life. Sound near correct?
Although Stoic philosphy insisted that man should not be moved by earthly passion this did not stop Seneca the Younger from having an eye to see through women's fashions and was a expert on Roman sex toys. He loved describing the sale of naked slave girls. He made himself even more rich by lending out money.
If my grandmother had aborted my mother, she wouldn't have had to have four children she didn't really want with a man who didn't have much respect for her, only to die of breast cancer when she was only 58.
How about you?
Now as I recall, if you were a man you didn't want to get caught near where the girls were partying in homage to Dionysus as it could cost you your life. Sound near correct?
Muad'Dib
Yes. "Eat me" had a whole different meaning.
Haiku?
Thers, Insolent Partisan (F)
Holy shit!
Unintentional HAIKU!!
.
KY
Muad'Dib
Really? Okay...
Marcia Brady ∞
Think we'll need it?
Muad'Dib not quite.
originally it was just for women but later the admission was extended to men as well.
you are probaly thinking of the Bona Dea
In Roman mythology, Bona Dea ("the good goddess") was a goddess of fertility, healing, virginity and women. She was a daughter of Faunus and was sometimes called Fauna.
(snip)
Her public festival took place on May 1. No men were allowed to participate.
During the Later Roman Republic a huge scandal was caused when a former patrican Clodius infiltrated the ceremony dresses as a woman in Ceasar's wife house.
cause no end of embarrassment and so Caesar divorced his wife Pompeia Sulla because his wife has to be 'above suspicsion.
Although Stoic philosphy insisted that man should not be moved by earthly passion this did not stop Seneca the Younger from having an eye to see through women's fashions and was a expert on Roman sex toys
What's an "eye to see through woman's fashions"?
Can such an eye be purchased on ebay?
Yes. "Eat me" had a whole different meaning.
Marcia Brady ∞
Are you claiming authority on Greek rituals?
Clodius was a thug, he had himself adopted into a Plebian familiy so he would be elected as a tribune of the people (Patricians were barred from this position).
his gang terrorized Cicero (Clodius had a vendetta against him), they burnt down his house.
...secretive women's rituals in particular?
Clear and Present Danger is on.
One of the Clancey books I liked.
I learned how a Claymore works.
Point this way.
.
Ah, but where do faith and rationalism intersect? For a long time physicists and chemists recognized that there were sub-atomic particles although there existence hadn't yet been proven.
How can you prove to me that there isn't a human soul in those clusters of cells that you want to kill? Wouldn't you rather give them the benefit of the doubt before employing the deadly saline injection?
Ah, but where do faith and rationalism intersect? For a long time physicists and chemists recognized that there were sub-atomic particles although there existence hadn't yet been proven.
How can you prove to me that there isn't a human soul in those clusters of cells that you want to kill? Wouldn't you rather give them the benefit of the doubt before employing the deadly saline injection?
His sister, Clodia, was notorious for her numberous affairs.
Are you claiming authority on Greek rituals?
Muad'Dib
I pretty much claim authority on everything. It's up to you whether or not you agree.
Although The Bacchae makes fun reading.
Well this makes up for the lack of a good flick on scifi tonight and presents a good argument for evolution as well. Surprised Eli hasn't jumped on this.
http://tinyurl.com/92sxw
Yes. "Eat me" had a whole different meaning.
Marcia Brady ∞
Are you claiming authority on Greek rituals?
Muad'Dib
Doesn't matter, so long as you smile when you say it.
gradually Nero's darker side took over and he would go out at night and mug passers-by, if they offered reistence, he would stab them and drop their bodies down the sewers.
he would slum it in the taverns and brothels of the Subura on one of this nocturnal trips and would violate both women and boys. He was soon idulging himself in sexual acts with married women and freeborn boys. He also raped the Vestal Virigin Rubia; a very serious matter - they attended to the scared fire of the goddess Vesta.
Muad'Dib not quite.
originally it was just for women but later the admission was extended to men as well.
you are probaly thinking of the Bona Dea
I was thinking something related to this, although with a pagan streak that parsed no quarter for males during the days of ritual, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Dio...ysian_Mysteries
How can you prove to me that there isn't a human soul in those clusters of cells that you want to kill? Wouldn't you rather give them the benefit of the doubt before employing the deadly saline injection?
hontlia
I believe there is a soul that predates the cluster of cells. I also believe that a person has the responsibility to choose the best use for his or her body.
Would you legally require the father in Texas to give up his kidney or bone marrow to save the life of his 10-year-old son? This is a sentient person we are discussing, not a collection of soul-infused cells with no self-awareness.
Ah, but where do faith and rationalism intersect? For a long time physicists and chemists recognized that there were sub-atomic particles although there existence hadn't yet been proven.
Yeah, but as soon as scientists began speculating about sub-atomic particles they began devising experiments that would prove or disprove their existence. As soon as you provide an experiment that will support or refute your claim of a human soul, I will give your argument some credence.
--
Marcia, don't bother: brain dead. Will not answer an argument without self-pity, useless.
you want wacky cults?
check out Cybele
Cybele's most ecstatic followers were males who ritually castrated themselves, after which they were given women's clothing and assumed female identities, who were referred to by contemporary commentator Callimachus in the feminine Gallai, and who other contemporary commetators in ancient Greece and Rome reffered to as Gallos or Galli. Her priestesses led the people in orgiastic ceremonies with wild music, drumming, dancing and drink. She was associated with the mystery religion concerning her son, Attis, who was castrated and resurrected. The dactyls were part of her retinue. Other followers of Cybele, Phrygian kurbantes or Corybantes, expressed her ecstatic and orgiastic cult in music, especially drumming, clashing of shields and spears, dancing, singing and shouts, all at night.
EkCenTriK, are you saying this is what's happening here?
slips her stinger through the roach's exoskeleton and directly into its brain. She apparently use ssensors along the sides of the stinger to guide it through the brain, a bit like a surgeon snaking his way to an appendix with a laparoscope. She continues to probe the roach's brain until she reaches one particular spot that appears to control the escape reflex. She injects a second venom that influences these neurons in such a way that the escape reflex disappears.
From the outside, the effect is surreal. The wasp does not paralyze the cockroach. In fact, the roach is able to lift up its front legs again and walk. But now it cannot move of its own accord. The wasp takes hold of one of the roach's antennae and leads it--in the words of Israeli scientists who study Ampulex--like a dog on a leash.
I learned how a Claymore works.
Point this way.
.
Don't be close to a claymore mine, when they go off. The back blast from a claymore may still kill you even if the BB's are not going in your direction.
Soul infused cells? Subatomic particles?
Do we then charge someone with murder then when he or she says "Not tonight Honey, I have a headache?" The speaker could have destroyed the possibility of a new sentient being being conceived that night.
Marcia, don't bother: brain dead. Will not answer an argument without self-pity, useless.
DWD - Challenged
Thanks, DWD. It's really just exercise. I've thought about why I have such opposing opinions, and it is rather amusing to articulate them.
What would have happened if she had adoption as an option?
Hey, moonbats!
Muad'Dib -- sounds like what a typical Saturday date night would be like doesn't it.
How can you prove to me that there isn't a human soul in those clusters of cells that you want to kill?
Silly rhetorical trick asking someone to prove the negative. Proving the affirmative is the foundation of reasoned thought, however. So, prove a soul exists in the presence of a cluster or cells, or a human body for that matter. When you think you can, come on back.
Souls?
Oh, please.
.
After the rape of the Vestal Virgin, Nero saw little reason to hide his vices.
he held huge public feasts where prostitues and dancing girls were invited.
during he jounrnyed down the Tiber to Ostia, temporary brothels would be set up on the banks when he stopped for a rest.
Doesn't matter, so long as you smile when you say it.
Muad'Dib
I pretty much always smile.
You?
For a long time physicists and chemists recognized that there were sub-atomic particles although there existence hadn't yet been proven.
Sub-atomic particles are scientific concepts, not religious ones. An experiment to prove the existence of a sub-atomic particle could be devised. You can't scientifically prove the existence of a soul.
he would slum it in the taverns and brothels of the Subura on one of this nocturnal trips and would violate both women and boys. He was soon idulging himself in sexual acts with married women and freeborn boys. He also raped the Vestal Virigin Rubia; a very serious matter - they attended to the scared fire of the goddess Vesta.
Sounds liek our new King, but instead of fucking women & boys he fucks the entire country.
What would have happened if she had adoption as an option?
hontlia
I adopted a crack-addicted baby, who spent the first seven-months of her life puking and moaning from cocaine gut.
You?
Muad'Dib -- sounds like what a typical Saturday date night would be like doesn't it.
EkCenTriK
Marcia's got the quickest stinger of all I hear.
Well, getting here was sure difficult. I take it the blogger problems are still in effect, i.e. blogger is bloggered.
What would have happened if she had adoption as an option?
She would have ended up like
this
Nero also as fast as he could plundered the coffers left by Claudius.
Nero spent eight hundred thousand sesterces (the equivalent of $32 000) a day entertaning the exiled Parthian king Tiridates and gave him a parting gift of a hundred million ($4 million).
Tactius says in all Nero gave away over 2 200 million sesterces or $88 million.
Marcia's got the quickest stinger of all I hear.
Muad'Dib
Hmmm, it's almost like you know me already...
check out Cybele
Cybele's most ecstatic followers were males who ritually castrated themselves,
Thanks, but this is about as close as I want to come.
Don't be close to a claymore mine, when they go off. The back blast from a claymore may still kill you even if the BB's are not going in your direction.
doug, *strange*
Shit, you wait this long to tell me that!?
I'm gonna leave a note on the frig for Melissa.
Don't be close to a claymore mine, when they go off. The back blast from a claymore may still kill you even if the BB's are not going in your direction.
doug, *strange*
Shit, you wait this long to tell me that!?
I'm gonna leave a note on the frig for Melissa.
during he jounrnyed down the Tiber to Ostia, temporary brothels would be set up on the banks when he stopped for a rest.
Triple-A can set you up with that.
Sub-atomic particles are scientific concepts, not religious ones. An experiment to prove the existence of a sub-atomic particle could be devised.
Exactly. Sub atomic particles are deduced by mathematics from observations of experiments. Once the existence of type of particle has been deduced, experiments are devised to determine whether it exists or not.
And guess what, either they find what they are looking for (such as the W & Z Boson) or they re-think the existence of the particle.
February 4, 2006
Halliburton Subsidiary Gets Contract to Add Temporary Immigration Detention Centers
By RACHEL L. SWARNS
WASHINGTON, Feb. 3 — The Army Corps of Engineers has awarded a contract worth up to $385 million for building temporary immigration detention centers to Kellogg Brown & Root, the Halliburton subsidiary that has been criticized for overcharging the Pentagon for its work in Iraq.
KBR would build the centers for the Homeland Security Department for an unexpected influx of immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for new programs that require additional detention space, company executives said. KBR, which announced the contract last month, had a similar contract with immigration agencies from 2000 to last year.
The contract with the Corps of Engineers runs one year, with four optional one-year extensions. Officials of the corps said that they had solicited bids and that KBR was the lone responder.
A spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Jamie Zuieback, said KBR would build the centers only in an emergency like the one when thousands of Cubans floated on rafts to the United States. She emphasized that the centers might never be built if such an emergency did not arise.
"It's the type of contract that could be used in some kind of mass migration," Ms. Zuieback said.
A spokesman for the corps, Clayton Church, said that the centers could be at unused military sites or temporary structures and that each one would hold up to 5,000 people.
more here;
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/
0...agewanted=print
I'm sorry, I just get a little pissed when someone says, "adoption is an option" yet doesn't adopt. Open your heart, your home, before you make such a claim.
Makes me nauseous, as a matter of fact.
After the rape of the Vestal Virgin, Nero saw little reason to hide his vices.
And who wouldn't?
What would have happened if she had adoption as an option?
hontlia
You do not want to go there, believe me.
Ah, but where do faith and rationalism intersect? For a long time physicists and chemists recognized that there were sub-atomic particles although there existence hadn't yet been proven
You are confusing emotion (yours) with reason again.
during he jounrnyed down the Tiber to Ostia, temporary brothels would be set up on the banks when he stopped for a rest.
Like I've always said, I was born a millenia too late.
So what would have become of you if your grandmother aborted your mother?
And what if your grandmother had wheels? Then she'd be a bike, and you could pedal the hell away from here.
You do not want to go there, believe me.
((((((((((((((((()))))))))))
during he jounrnyed down the Tiber to Ostia, temporary brothels would be set up on the banks when he stopped for a rest.
Triple-A can set you up with that.
Yeah, but they always stick you with an extra charge if you have to travel more then 30 strokes.
Nero grew bored of his wife Octavia, he banished her to the island of Pandataria, where she was later murdered.
he grew weary as well of his mother's constant strangehold and his interested turned to Poppaea Sabina, a rich girl from Pompeii.
Poppaea was not nearly as wicked as Messalinia or Agrippina. But mater carus was jealous of the affair, this time she did not get her own way as Nero tried to conceal the affair by marrying Poppaea to his friend Otho.
Poppaea accused him of being 'momma's boy, who was bound to obey orders'. This stung.
And what if your grandmother had wheels? Then she'd be a bike, and you could pedal the hell away from here.
rofl
And what would happen to our economy if we abolished slavery?
Despite the best efforts of the regressive elements of our society we over came it.
I will submit that a truly progressive agenda will include the elimination of abortion, except in extreme circumstances, with a comprehensive program of birth control education and adoption assistance as the norm in this country.
Rather than waste lives through death we celebrate them through life. Indeed we should seek to celebrate life in all of its forms through opposition to the death penalty and serious attention to our God-given role as stewards of this planet.
Thanks, but this is about as close as I want to come.
Muad'Dib
Aww, Muad'Dib, Usul, what's a little snip amongst friends?
As an aside, my ex used to call our daughter a Fremen (sp?) because her eyes and her eye whites were blue when she was an infant.
Ah, but where do faith and rationalism intersect? For a long time physicists and chemists recognized that there were sub-atomic particles although there existence hadn't yet been proven
They don't.
Just because physicists predicted the existence of sub atomic particles didn't mean they had "faith" that they existed. Quite the opposite, the constructed experiments intended to either demonstrate their existence or to show that the didn't exist. try doing that with souls, angels & spirits.
Marcia's got the quickest stinger of all I hear.
Muad'Dib
Hmmm, it's almost like you know me already...
Marcia Brady ∞
I've seen your prey, Eli in particular.
Moon's giving you a run today though, libidinous brainy types are always dangerous.
Then there's Vicki, who's been known to sting anything that moves.
mater carus
Translation, please? carus?
rofl
Translation, please?
I was born in Dusseldorf
And that is why they calle me Rolf.
If my grandmother were a martini she would have been drunk.
Marcia Brady, again I bow to your eloquence. I have often thought at how presumptuous it is to think that an abortion anaihilates a soul. Souls are eternal and therefore exist before sperm meets egg. Fertilization is a knock at the door--you can answer and open the door, or you can decline. In either case the caller can go on to another door or return later at another time. If I choose to not open the door at that knock, I've done no harm to any soul. I may answer another knock or that knock may never come again, but it is my choice to open the door or not. My thought is that the soul inhabits the zygote or fetus or whatever at some point when sentience and consent have joined: i.e., when there is viability, or respiration, or birth. When my two children were born I felt like they were guest aliens sent to me to teach and nurture them to live in our world, they came fully equipped but immature from someplace and were fully sui generis, complete but dependent on me for their orientation.
If my grandmother were a martini she would have been drunk.
I laughed out loud and woke up my dog.
I want to be banished to Capri. They can send guards to make sure I don't escape and supply me with fish, bread, wine & olives. Thank you.
"So what would have become of you if your grandmother aborted your mother?"
The only way that question can be answered is if the person it is directed at existed. If that person did not exist, it would never have been asked.
Maud'Dib, call these folks first.
ATHANOR CONSULTING
Paranormal investigation and protection services
"Ancient arts - modern perspectives"
Athanor Consulting offer a variety of discrete and personal paranormal protective services, ranging from cleansing houses/businesses of malign paranormal influences to curse protection and exorcism, combining tested ancient wisdom with modern scientific and philosophical perspectives, backed by over 20 years of practical experience in this unusual area of expertise.
http://athanor.firedrake.org/
God-given r
Okay, you just lost me for good.
Aww, Muad'Dib, Usul, what's a little snip amongst friends? Marcia Brady
Usul is the thick base of a pillar or column.
Nero stripped his mother of all her powers, refusing to live with her anymore, he had her ejected from the palace.
Knowing his mother's murderous nature, Nero became afraid. Egged on by Poppaea, he decided she would have to go once and for all.
He pretended to make peace with his mother and invited her to celebrate the feast of Minerva with him at Baiae. As her ship was comming up to the jetty, he had one of his captains ram her, damaging her boat. The feast was over and Nero offered Agrippina one of his ships, which had been built by his old friend Anicetus so it would collapse at sea.
even that did not kill her as his mother was a strong swimmer and swam to shore where she was prompely stabbed to death.
adoption assistance as the norm in this country.
Note:
Not assistance to young mothers and fathers, but adoption assistance. Placing healthy white infants (Note: not sick infants of color,or sibling groups, or older children,or true orphans. I exempt them from these comments.)Placing healthy white newborns FOR PROFIT and doing it on the backs of women forced into pregnancy.
A fundie dream, just like the good old days, eh?
I'm warnin ya folks...
hontlia, I am speaking directly to you, asking you directly a very direct question.
How many unwanted, drug-exposed babies have you adopted?
Please stop your convenient preaching and go away now. Convenient morality makes me want to heave.
I don't believe I have ever said that before.
I laughed out loud and woke up my dog.
DemByDefault
Amusing yourself first is the greatest good.
You made me giggle, too.
"A fundie dream, just like the good old days, eh? "
Well while they set up their basement RailRoad Diorama they are lusting for the first Tyco Orphan Train edition.
As her ship was comming up to the jetty, he had one of his captains ram her.
WARNING:
History averse readers may experience heavy breathing. This is normal.
Usul is the thick base of a pillar or column.
Muad'Dib
Okay, a big snip.
In AD 62 Nero married his mistress Poppea, making her Augusta, just 12 days after he had Octavia murdered.
The same year Burrus died and Seneca retired.
the two restraning influences on his life were finally gone.
Unions in New York City are masters of psychological warfare. When they set up a giant blow-up rat (seasonally decked in Christmas tree lights) in front of your business and start singing union songs and chanting chants, well, it's not a pleasant experience.
http://www.deadprogrammer.com/?p=1795
You're gonna jump on me, just like Nero jumped on Pompeia.
Who?
Nero, he jumped on Pompeia! She was his wife and she was unfatihful to him and he jumped up and down on her...
I"M NOT GONNA JUMP ON YA!!!
Greatest movie ever.
I've seen your prey, Eli in particular.
Muad'Dib
Funny, I'm not a predator. I'm completely vegetarian.
Rather than waste lives through death we celebrate them through life. Indeed we should seek to celebrate life in all of its forms through opposition to the death penalty and serious attention to our God-given role as stewards of this planet.
Thers, your grandma was an old Irish lady from Queens. What do you mean she would nave been drunk? She was.
Where did hontlia go? Fixing dinner?
"Where did hontlia go? Fixing dinner?"
Or getting fixed?
Usul is the thick base of a pillar or column.
Muad'Dib
Okay, a big snip.
Marcia Brady
Hence the KY.
I've seen your prey, Eli in particular.
Muad'Dib
Funny, I'm not a predator. I'm completely vegetarian.
Marcia Brady ∞
So's the wasp. She uses him for breeding.
Thers, your grandma was an old Irish lady from Queens. What do you mean she would nave been drunk? She was.
NYMary
I think someone should get Thers some ice for that bruise.
In AD 62 Nero married his mistress Poppea, making her Augusta, just 12 days after he had Octavia murdered.
Kinda like a Vegas divorce, only without all the pomp and ceremony.
LIVERMORE, California (AP) -- Officials at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory have added a new weapon to their armory: a high-powered machine gun that can fire more than 50 rounds per second.
picture of gun;
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/US/
0...hinegun1.ap.jpg
article;
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/02...e.ap/
index.html
They've done the same on top of the local NIH LAB, RML. I'd get pictures but I'm afraid that I'd be arrested.
folks have long said that if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament...
that need not be the only case of sacralizing the act...
if the sanctity of the soul is befouled by its incorporation in flesh, abortion--by limiting the exposure of the soul to the flesh--presents the soul directly to its Creator, almost undefiled...
.
Burrus was replaced by the infamous Tigellinus who had been expelled in AD 39 by Caligua for adultery with Agrippina, his sister and a number of other Roman matrons.
doug I saw that yesterday. The article noted there were suburban homes all around the lab. A gun like would take a house apart as well as anyone in it.
Maybe the Pentagon is practicing psy-ops on Atrios.blogspot.
So's the wasp. She uses him for breeding.
Muad'Dib
I am a WASP, but perfectly nice and I don't use males for anything they object to.
You'll have to trust me on this, I guess.
Tigellinus egged on Nero to new scales of debauchery and Tacitus left a vivid description of a feast held by Tigellinus in Nero's honour.
The most notorious and profilgate of these entertainments were those given in Rome by Tigellinus. A banquet was set out upon a barge built for the purpose on a lake, and this barge towed about by a vessel picked out in gold and ivory and rowed by naked, debauched youths who were assorted according to their age and proficency in libidinous pratices...On the banks of the lake were brothels, filled with women of rank and opposite them naked prostitues, indluging in indecent gestures and lewd posterings. At nightfall, the nearby woods and houses echoed with songs and were ablazed with lights and Nero disgraced himself with every kind of abomination, natural and unnatural, leaving no further depths of debaucery into which he could sink
Things would be simpler if mammals were like birds and laid eggs. If a couple wanted to keep an offspring, they could just put the egg under a heat lamp. Otherwise, they could invite friends over for a large omelettte.
if the sanctity of the soul is befouled by its incorporation in flesh, abortion--by limiting the exposure of the soul to the flesh--presents the soul directly to its Creator, almost undefiled...
.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar (aka
And now that limbo no longer exists, it's a slam dunk.
Even tho Nero doted on Poppea she nagged too much for his taste so when he came back from the races he kicked her to death. She was ill and pregant at the time. Their only daughter Claudia Augustua died in infancy.
I think someone should get Thers some ice for that bruise.
Yes please. Surround the ice in a protective layer of vodka.
Tigellinus egged on Nero to new scales of debauchery and Tacitus left a vivid description of a feast held by Tigellinus in Nero's honour.
The most notorious and profilgate of these entertainments were those given in Rome by Tigellinus. A banquet was set out upon a barge built for the purpose on a lake, and this barge towed about by a vessel picked out in gold and ivory and rowed by naked, debauched youths who were assorted according to their age and proficency in libidinous pratices...On the banks of the lake were brothels, filled with women of rank and opposite them naked prostitues, indluging in indecent gestures and lewd posterings. At nightfall, the nearby woods and houses echoed with songs and were ablazed with lights and Nero disgraced himself with every kind of abomination, natural and unnatural, leaving no further depths of debaucery into which he could sink
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Anyone know if they're open tonight?
A banquet was set out upon a barge built for the purpose on a lake, and this barge towed about by a vessel picked out in gold and ivory and rowed by naked, debauched youths who were assorted according to their age and proficency in libidinous pratices...On the banks of the lake were brothels, filled with women of rank and opposite them naked prostitues, indluging in indecent gestures and lewd posterings.
When I read this sort of thing (e.g. Suetonius) I wonder how much of the debauchery was real and how much was swiftboating.
Maybe the Pentagon is practicing psy-ops on Atrios.blogspot.
Then they are feeling pretty frustrated, this and at least one other thread have been going merrily away even though blogspot.com is hosed.
Nero was upset by Poppea's death but he did not mend his ways and beacame even worse.
Instead he took on a young boy called Sporus-who looked like her-and had him castrated. All other signs of his mascuilinity was removed. An incision was made where his scrotum had been in an attempt to turn him into a woman and Nero called him Sabina.
Things would be simpler if mammals were like birds and laid eggs.
spinoza
It's all too apparent how this would end. First thing you know, people would be sneaking their eggs into other peoples nests, or is that what Moon's been referring to?
"Then they are feeling pretty frustrated, this and at least one other thread have been going merrily away even though blogspot.com is hosed.
doug, psyop resistanto "
Life always finds a way.
Yes please. Surround the ice in a protective layer of vodka.
NYMary
Of course. You wouldn't want him to get frostbite, would you?
On a trip to Greece he married Sporus/Sabina in a proper marriage ceremony, with Sporus/Sabina wearing a rose tinted veil. There was even a marriage settlement and the reception was well attended.
Thank the FSM for Haloscan (for a change)
Has blogger been teh fux0red all afternoon?
At nightfall, the nearby woods and houses echoed with songs and were ablazed with lights and Nero disgraced himself with every kind of abomination, natural and unnatural, leaving no further depths of debaucery into which he could sink
Little know fact: this celebration prompted the first novelty souvenir: The "I went to Nero's party and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" T-Shirt.
.
There was even a marriage settlement and the reception was well attended.
Did they have puffed shrimp at the reception?
There was even a marriage settlement and the reception was well attended.
Did they have puffed shrimp at the reception?
Many Apps Misconfigure Security Settings
"In the old days, operating systems had simple access control mechanisms. In Unix, each file belonged to an owner and a (single) group of users. The owner had the option to give the other group members read and/or write permission, and the option to give everybody read and/or write permission. That was pretty much it.
Over time, things have gotten more complicated. Windows controls access to about fifteen types of objects, with about thirty different flavors of privileges that can each be granted or denied, for any object, to any user or group of users. Privileges can be managed with great precision. In theory, this lets people grant others the absolute minimum privileges they need to do their jobs, which is good security practice. "
Sudhakar and Andrew’s research. They built an automated tool to analyze the access control settings on files, registry entries, and other objects on a Windows machine. The tool looks at the settings on the machine and applies a set of inference rules that encode the various ways a user could try to leverage his privileges improperly. For example, one rule says that if Alice has the privilege to modify a program, and Bob runs that program, then Alice can use any of Bob’s privileges. (She can do this by adding code to the program that does what she wants; when Bob runs the program, that code will run with Bob’s privileges.) The tool looks for privilege escalation attacks, or ways for a relatively unprivileged user to gain more privilege.
"Sudhakar and Andrew ran the tool on professionally-managed Windows systems, and the results were sobering. Several popular applications, from companies like Adobe, AOL, Macromedia, and Microsoft, had misconfigured their access control in ways that allowed relatively unprivileged users — in some cases even the lowliest Guest account — to gain full control of the system."
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/
I will answer you very directly, without insulting you by asking you the same question.
My wife and I are well beyond our child bearing years but have raised four children (including a premee, who, by your definition of life, should have been left to die and damn the doctor's heroic efforts to save her) and are looking forward to watching all of them grow and prosper.
You tell me to go away. Well, I am not going to go away. It is wrong of you to accuse me of convenient morality. Why is that addicted baby being born? It is because of a social structure that marginalizes the poor. If those women had access to decent health care the crack-addicted babies wouldn't be an issue.
There are too may so-called "progressives" who want to do no more than preserve the existing social structure just so they can have a ready base of the disaffected that they can count on in the next election. Sure we'll throw them a bone or two in the form of food stamps or (poorly) subsidized day care, but we will do nothing to address the root probhlem.
Unless we can achive economic equality for all there will always exist problems like abortion. The inability to recognize this is what is wrong with too many ideologues on the left.
I will answer you very directly, without insulting you by asking you the same question.
My wife and I are well beyond our child bearing years but have raised four children (including a premee, who, by your definition of life, should have been left to die and damn the doctor's heroic efforts to save her) and are looking forward to watching all of them grow and prosper.
You tell me to go away. Well, I am not going to go away. It is wrong of you to accuse me of convenient morality. Why is that addicted baby being born? It is because of a social structure that marginalizes the poor. If those women had access to decent health care the crack-addicted babies wouldn't be an issue.
There are too may so-called "progressives" who want to do no more than preserve the existing social structure just so they can have a ready base of the disaffected that they can count on in the next election. Sure we'll throw them a bone or two in the form of food stamps or (poorly) subsidized day care, but we will do nothing to address the root probhlem.
Unless we can achive economic equality for all there will always exist problems like abortion. The inability to recognize this is what is wrong with too many ideologues on the left.
NYMary, how are you feeling?
Would you like to weigh in on the abortion issue if hontlia is still around?
On a trip to Greece he married Sporus/Sabina in a proper marriage ceremony, with Sporus/Sabina wearing a rose tinted veil. There was even a marriage settlement and the reception was well attended.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Now I'm liberal to a degree. I have no problem with trannies, so long as it's a voluntary thing. Having your testes arbitrarily removed and a incision left where they once were so you can be married by the emperor, well that's going a little too far.
They travelled together in Nero's litter and he dressed Sporus in the finest robes of an empress. They attended Greek events and fairs together, and were seen kissing openly in the streets when they returned to Rome.
Despite his mutilation, Sporus seem geniue in his affection for Nero and he stuck by him after he had been deserted by nearly everyone else.
There are too may so-called "progressives" who want to do no more than preserve the existing social structure just so they can have a ready base of the disaffected that they can count on in the next election.
Bullshit.
Hi Vicki!
How was the thing?
Haloscan ate my post & you guys didn't fix Blogger while I was at Compline -- I'm going to call it a day (& hope I can find a way in tomorrow!)
heh its the Ancient History porn hour!
There are too may so-called "progressives" who want to do no more than preserve the existing social structure just so they can have a ready base of the disaffected that they can count on in the next election.
Personally, I like to keep the underclass around for the steady supply of brains I can harvest without attracting too much attention. When I went after the well-to-do white women or the newlyweds on the cruise ships it was all over the news.
.
You are the problem,
"There are too may so-called "progressives" who want to do no more than preserve the existing social structure just so they can have a ready base of the disaffected that they can count on in the next election."
So progressivism is a plot to keep people poor because we all love abortion so much?
its the Ancient History porn hour!
Keep it er.... "coming".
Why is that addicted baby being born? It is because of a social structure that marginalizes the poor.
You're close here Attila. Substitute economic for social and you're just about there.
Of course, once you do that you nullify yourself since its your ilk that exaserbate the problem by voting for class system oligarchs.
So progressivism is a plot to keep people poor because we all love abortion so much?
Exactly. That and you all like hand-wringing. It's the same reason we Christians would be lost without the Muslims, athiests and other sinners. If we couldn't bitch about the sinners and pray for the eternal damnation of their souls, what would we have to keep us going?
.
Mr Chief Justice,
Do you ever run into Strom Thurmond?
Nero himself was fond of dressing up as a woman.
Shortly before his death, Petronius the author of the wild and pornographic Satyricon, wrote a "list of Nero's acts of lechery, with the names of the youths and the women whom he had debauched, detailing all the lustful novelties in each case" and sent it to the emperor.
Effin bloger
How does one test for the absence of angels?
In 'Science,' as i learned it, experimentation does not prove anything. Experimentation is typically designed to disprove the nul hypothesis: that is you test the assertion that something does NOT exist or occur.
There are too may so-called "progressives" who want to do no more than preserve the existing social structure just so they can have a ready base of the disaffected that they can count on in the next election.
Oh, get bent.
Unless we can achive economic equality for all there will always exist problems like abortion. The inability to recognize this is what is wrong with too many ideologues on the left.
hontlia
I have no problem discussing the economic issues involved in drug addiction/abortion/family structure.
All I am saying is that if you provide adoption as an option to a mother who wants her baby to go to a family rather than have an abortion, yet don't feel the need to open your heart or your home to that baby, then you are practicing convenient morality.
I am a progressive that supports abortion rights, yet I felt that abortion for myself was wrong. I support abortion rights, yet if my second daughter's birth mother had chosen abortion rather than being forced into giving up her baby because she was a drug-addicted prostitute, that would have been her decision.
My sister is a neonatal intensive care unit nurse. I believe that any baby that comes into the world breathing should be given all the medical care in the world, regardless of race, economic status, or the marital status of it's parents. I also believe that a woman's body belongs to her alone, and your, yes, convenient morality does not hold any sway in her decisions as to what to do with her body.
I am speaking to you as both a biological parent and a foster/adoptive parent. If you are able and you believe in it, open your home to a baby who has no one to care for it.
Otherwise, I don't have a lot more use for your convenient morality than I do for the warmongers who don't enlist. Judging from the sidelines is relatively painless.
Jeez, cant you guys read? n I said "so-called". progressives. You cant honestly tell me that there aren't democrats in the House and Senate who only want to preserve the societal status quo?
Am I the only one being bloggered by blogger?
Nero was livid when he read the letter and was even more pissed of because Petronius was dead and could not be punished.
heh its the Ancient History porn hour!
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
I haven't got this horny over history since Odysseus encountered the Sirens.
How does one test for the absence of angels?
In 'Science,' as i learned it, experimentation does not prove anything. Experimentation is typically designed to disprove the nul hypothesis: that is you test the assertion that something does NOT exist or occur.
Now where is that white crow?
How does one test for the absence of angels?
In 'Science,' as i learned it, experimentation does not prove anything. Experimentation is typically designed to disprove the nul hypothesis: that is you test the assertion that something does NOT exist or occur.
Now where is that white crow?
Mr Chief Justice,
Do you ever run into Strom Thurmond?
I don't associate with any more after I found out he was a hypocritical race mixer.
.
There are too may so-called "progressives" who want to do no more than preserve the existing social structure just so they can have a ready base of the disaffected that they can count on in the next election.
Oh, get bent.
Thers, Insolent Partisan (F)
Or what Thers says.
Would you like to weigh in on the abortion issue if hontlia is still around?
She went up... probably not, though. This one is not especially bright.
In AD 67 with Rome in crisis, Nero left on a wasteful tour of Greece. Increasinl paranoid he commanded the popular General Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo to kill himself.
Fearing for their own lives, the governors of the Roman provinces went into open revolt.
Their leader, Gaius Julius Vindex said contemptusly of Nero "I have seen him on stage playing pregnant women and slaves about to be executed"
I haven't got this horny over history since Odysseus encountered the Sirens.
Muad'Dib
Yeah, well, it doesn't take much with 21-year-old boys...
Nero himself was fond of dressing up as a woman.
You gotta like a guy who's willing to experiment.
Shortly before his death, Petronius the author of the wild and pornographic Satyricon
I'm going to have to rent Felini's interpretation again. I saw it when it came out but was disappointed relative to La Dolce Vita and 8 1/2.
Unless we can achive economic equality for all there will always exist problems like abortion.
That's only part of it. Unless we can achieve free, safe, effective, and easy-to-use birth control, abortion will always exist. Even then, we'll need abortion for times when parents realize they are carrying a child who for reasons of sex, defects, etc. they don't want.
Why do you say "problems like abortion"? Would you say "problems like plastic surgery" or "problems like Viagara prescriptions"????
Am I the only one being bloggered by blogger?
Hecate Malificent | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 8:45 pm
=================
nope, goddess, yaint...it's been fucked all day
How does one test for the absence of angels?
You use the Nielson Rating System. A few years ago, a low Nielson Rating proved that angels no longer touched us.
.
Nero himself was fond of dressing up as a woman.
You gotta like a guy who's willing to experiment.
Muad'Dib
Always.
Effin blogger.
Nero ignored the revolt and was more interested in watching young men in the gymnasium. His response to the rebellion was quite deluded "I have to only appear and sing to have peace once more in Gaul". Graffiti dabbed on the columns in Rome answered this by saying that his crowing had even awoken the Galli - which means both "cocks" and "Gauls".
I haven't got this horny over history since Odysseus encountered the Sirens.
Muad'Dib
Yeah, well, it doesn't take much with 21-year-old boys...
Sing it for me baby.
effing wingnuts
Thank you WGG. Sometimes, I think it is just me.
Nero ignored the revolt and was more interested in watching young men in the gymnasium.
Clearly he had politically conservative inclinations.
Sing it for me baby.
Muad'Dib
Trust me. I have voice perfectly suited to blog comments...
Nero ignored the revolt and was more interested in watching young men in the gymnasium. His response to the rebellion was quite deluded "I have to only appear and sing to have peace once more in Gaul".
Gaulback Mountain.
.
Galli - which means both "cocks" and "Gauls".
He, he. Synchronicity.
Yeah, well, it doesn't take much with 21-year-old boys... Marcia Brady
Would you like to meet my friend Usul?
Is this really going to be the 3000 commment thread because that's all we've got going for us tonight?
Thank you WGG. Sometimes, I think it is just me.
Hecate Malificent -- 8:52 pm
yr obdt svnt...
Test
The legions proclaimed Servius Sulpicius Galba, then the governor of Spain, emperor.
The Senate then condemed Nero to die a slave's death - first whipped and then crucified. The Praetorian Guards turned against him and he fled with Sporus to Antium, modern day Anzio in southern Italy.
There are 2 versions of his death. In one told by Suetonius, with the help of a servant, he stabbed himself through the throat with a dagger on 9 June AD 68 at the age of 31. His last words were "What an artist dies with me"
It's not just http://atrios.blogspot.com/
that's broken, it appears to be on any blogspot.com site.
Is this really going to be the 3000 commment thread because that's all we've got going for us tonight?
Sharpened Screwdriver of Peace
Pretty much, I guess. I drank a bottle of wine and came here because I didn't want to inflict my pissedness on any one else, and what do I go and do?
Would you like to meet my friend Usul?
Muad'Dib
His last words were "What an artist dies with me"
Yes, I remember that line.
the second version is by Tacitus, according to him, Nero escaped and reached the Greek islands, where he turned up in the guise of a red-haired prophet and the leader of the poor.
this didn't fool the govenor of Cynthos, who reconised him straight away, had him arrested and carried out the sentence passed by the Senate.
I drank a bottle of wine and came here because I didn't want to inflict my pissedness on any one else
How thoughtful of humanity.
doug,
I think you're right. Can't even get into my own site from blogger.
I drank a bottle of wine and came here because I didn't want to inflict my pissedness on any one else
You must not have a boyfriend yet.
Nero escaped and reached the Greek islands, where he turned up in the guise of a red-haired prophet and the leader of the poor.
Evidently, the same thing happened a few years ago with Carrot Top.
.
It's not just http://atrios.blogspot.com/
that's broken, it appears to be on any blogspot.com site.
doug, curiously lazy | 02.04.06 - 8:57 pm | #
it's been spotty...
it has taken me as much as half an hour to reconnect at times...
.
How thoughtful of humanity.
Muad'Dib
You would think, wouldn't you? Then I get all judgmental on hontlia...
Oh, well. Where is that boy with my latte?
Plastic surgery and viagra don't involve killing unborn babies. I'm surprised at you Hecate. Normally your posts are intelligent and well-reasoned.
I rather resent the suggestion that I am cheerleading from the sidelines. We all have a stake in this. How does one know that one isn't killing the next Ghandi, Einstein or Mother Theresa?
Nero was the last emperor of the Caesarean dynasty which could trace its ancestry all the way back to Julius Caesar's father.
After Nero came AD 69 - the "Year of the Four Emperors". In rapid succession came the rebel provincial chiefs Galba, Otho and Vitellius all of whom reigned for only a few months each and all met violent ends.
How does one know that one isn't killing the next Ghandi, Einstein or Mother Theresa?
Or the next contestant on the Price is Right.
.
Just another comment. If slaves were people why weren't they granted any greater rights than a blastocyst has today?
After Nero came AD 69 - the "Year of the Four Emperors".
I'm waiting for Honarius, but we've got a ways to go yet. Marcus Aurelius is one of may faves, hear that Hontlia?
So, hontila, let me get this straight:
Abortion should be illegal, because of your belief in a human soul - a belief we should note that you cannot prove to be true.
So because of your belief in something that cannot be demonstrated to be true, my life, my freedoms, my rights must take a back seat to a small group of cells in my uterus - which do not in any way resemble a human being other than in their DNA - and which, at best, have a 50% chance of growing into an individual human life.
In other words, my entire being is subject to the whims of your personal beliefs.
This sums it up, yes?
How does one know that one isn't killing the next Ghandi, Einstein or Mother Theresa?
Hontlia the beleagured - 9:02 pm
or hitler, or bush, or bin laden...
nature is fertile; fecund, even. it takes hundreds of billions of small chances. some pay off; others don't...
.
We all have a stake in this. How does one know that one isn't killing the next Ghandi, Einstein or Mother Theresa?
Hontlia the beleagured
Or Hitler or Pol Pot or Ceaucescu or Stalin or Idi Amin Dada or Caligula or Pinochet or ...
If the woman chooses not to use her body to support the life of another human, then that is her choice. Judge it as you wish, but don't legislate against it.
Where is that boy with my latte?
Marcia Brady ∞
How would you like that served, up or over?
How does one know that one isn't killing the next Ghandi, Einstein or Mother Theresa?
Bite me.
Where is that boy with my latte?
Marcia Brady ∞
How would you like that served, up or over?
Muad'Dib
... or with a splash?
well i can dicuss Marcus Aurelius's son Commodus
Just another comment. If slaves were people why weren't they granted any greater rights than a blastocyst has today?
Don't get us started on a history of slavery tonight. My hand hurts from taking notes on Nero and I'm pretty sure I'm going to fail the test anyway.
.
How does one know that one isn't killing the next Ghandi, Einstein or Mother Theresa?
Bite me.
Hecate Malificent
Or that.
Just another comment. If slaves were people why weren't they granted any greater rights than a blastocyst has today?
You don't know much history, do you? Are you really this stupid? Do two wrongs really make a right in your simple little world? I wish your mother had aborted you.
How would you like that served, up or over?
Muad'Dib
Over what? I want to weigh my options.
Mother Theresa?
Not you best argument, the woman who said that birth control was murder, and who said her happiest moment was when babies died in her arms for Jesus, IIRC.
Don't get us started on a history of slavery tonight. My hand hurts from taking notes on Nero and I'm pretty sure I'm going to fail the test anyway.
.
William H. Rehnquist
You'll do better on the test if you think in terms of context rather than detail.
Don't get us started on a history of slavery tonight. My hand hurts from taking notes on Nero and I'm pretty sure I'm going to fail the test anyway.
.
William H. Rehnquist
Besides, it's going to be an oral exam.
Plastic surgery and viagra don't involve killing unborn babies.
Neither does abortion. There is no such thing as an unborn baby, you twitless excuse for protoplasm.
OK, so I'm not gone yet & I don't believe in feeding trolls, but (besides the list of bads guys) the "how do you know you are not killing the next..." is also an argument against contraception & was used as such, "Ben Franklin was the thirteenth child" -- it could also be used as an argument against celibacy
Of course, the fact that the world already has a population three times what is sustainable at a decent standard of living could be used to argue in a different direction
Hecate -- you are not alone -- never alone!
If slaves were people
My ancestors and I would like to formally invite you to fuck right off.
well i can dicuss Marcus Aurelius's son Commodus
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
You could.
Just another comment. If slaves were people why weren't they granted any greater rights than a blastocyst has today?
Because you could force slaves to work. Blastocysts are just plain lazy. They are nothing but a drain on society.
.
If slaves were people
My ancestors and I would like to formally invite you to fuck right off.
masculine_monica_nyc
And my love for you increases.
"Of course, the fact that the world already has a population three times what is sustainable at a decent standard of living could be used to argue in a different direction"
The Prior said what I was thinking with facts and more clarity than I could muster.
Do you honestly believe that there are too few people on this groaning planet?
Son of a diddly....!
Has anyone called tech support?
Commodus was the first emperor born "into the purple", his dad had tried to teach him how to govern but he was bored sensless.
Commodus cruel streak first showed itself when he was aged 12 when he found his bath water was tepid; he ordered the bath-keeper to be thrown in the furnace.
Fortunaly for the bath-keeper, the man in charge of the slaves had a little more compassion and threw in a sheepskin into the furnace, the smell was enough to convince Commodus that his order had been given.
If slaves were people
This character is one of those Falwell debate grads. Note the clever twisting of context, as though slaves could be something other than people.
I support abortion rights, yet if my second daughter's birth mother had chosen abortion rather than being forced into giving up her baby because she was a drug-addicted prostitute, that would have been her decision.
I just want to be clear with you, Marcia,that I don't believe women should ever be forced into giving babies up. I have heard all too often that mom was a drug addicted prostitute, when in fact it wasn't true. I have no doubt that in your case the baby was a cocaine baby,
and that you have done a great good thing by adopting her.
OTOH the picture of a woman as a drug addicted prostitute is a stereotype,and adoptionland is rife with such myths. OTOH, I do not deny at all that there are children who are better off adopted. Many,many,many children better off adopted. Most of them are considered special needs kids or even unadoptablekids, and I laud anyone who is loving and giving enough to devote a good chunk of their life to such a child.
It's just important, I think, to differentiate the truths about what kind of women lose children, why they lost the child, and who profitted from the loss.
I also want to point out that
the anti choice people have formed a most unholy alliance with those who want to profit from enforced
pregnancy. I am not inclined to give these people any quarter. None. They are just the same as any one else who does violence to women, imo.
The fact that they wrap their violence up in a baby blanket does not make it any less egregious.
I hope it's clear where I stand on adoption.
Of course, the fact that the world already has a population three times what is sustainable at a decent standard of living could be used to argue in a different direction
You know I love you, right?
Besides, it's going to be an oral exam.
Muad'Dib
Crap, I'm always afraid I'll flunk those...
Besides, it's going to be an oral exam.
That's ok. I only take oral exams, I don't give them.
.
Just another comment. If slaves were people why weren't they granted any greater rights than a blastocyst has today?
Hontlia
Because the bible says it is okay to have slaves. What do I win?
--
Just another comment. If slaves were people why weren't they granted any greater rights than a blastocyst has today?
Hontlia
Because the bible says it is okay to have slaves. What do I win?
--
Or Hitler or Pol Pot or Ceaucescu or Stalin or Idi Amin Dada or Caligula or Pinochet or ...
If the woman chooses not to use her body to support the life of another human, then that is her choice. Judge it as you wish, but don't legislate against it.
Marcia Brady ∞ | 02.04.06 - 9:05 pm
+++++++++++++++
or hitler, or bush, or bin laden...
nature is fertile; fecund, even. it takes hundreds of billions of small chances. some pay off; others don't...
.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar (aka | Email | 02.04.06 - 9:05 pm
------------------------------------
heh
A pretty youth with bright eyes and curly golden hair, he comitted incest with his sisters even before he came to power. He married Bruttia Crispina, the granddaughter of a friend of Hadrian but he had little or no time for her at all.
"Just another comment. If slaves were people why weren't they granted any greater rights than a blastocyst has today?
Hontlia"
I didn't think it was possible for your arguments to get worse. This is utterly incoherent. Is there a bottle of something emptying itself as you post?
I hope it's clear where I stand on adoption.
Rage Time
Kind of.
But in my case, my daughter's birth mother was a cocaine and alcohol addicted prostitute who sued me to overturn the adoption, but afterward went to prison for mentally, physically, and sexually abusing the son she did get back, so there's that.
I hope my position on adoption and abortion is clear.
Besides, it's going to be an oral exam.
Muad'Dib
Crap, I'm always afraid I'll flunk those...
Marcia Brady ∞
Study, practice; study, practice; study, practice...
If slaves were people why weren't they granted any greater rights than a blastocyst has today
Why, you are so right Slaves weren't people at all.
How could anyone make such a stupid mistake as to think they were?
The issue is that you, in turn, cannot disprove the existence of a soul in the unborn.
My opinion is born of an abundance of caution as well as my faith tradition.
Gee, wouldn't it be nice if our government had a bias toward life and refrained from killing thousands of Iraquis based on imaginary weapons of mass destruction? (Talk about an article of faith!)
Moonie,
How on earth do you know all of this? I am amazed at your knoledge of Rome.
Besides, it's going to be an oral exam.
That's ok. I only take oral exams, I don't give them.
.
William H. Rehnquist
Indeed, tis more blessed to give than too receive.
A pretty youth with bright eyes and curly golden hair, he comitted incest with his sisters even before he came to power.
That's just a rumor. There was never any concrete evidence. Besides, I didn't know they were my sisters, there was no abortion at the time so there were like 57 chidren in my family.
.
I hope it's clear where I stand on adoption.
Rage Time - - 9:13 pm
a subtle, nuanced position...quite comprehensible...
as well as my faith tradition.
In my faith tradition, abortion is noble.
Now, please bite me.
Hecate --
Talk is cheap!
Come over here and "sit" by me...
Moonie,
How on earth do you know all of this? I am amazed at your knoledge of Rome.
Hecate Malificent
It's her incisive understanding of what will capture her audience's attention that has me fascinated.
Is there a bottle of something emptying itself as you post?
DemByDefault
Why are you saying this like it's a bad thing? I'm feeling so judged right now...
geez, this blogger breakdown is booooorrrrrriiiiinnnnngggggggggggggggg
The issue is that you, in turn, cannot disprove the existence of a soul in the unborn.
But what if it rang up a reading of "zero" on the Soul-o-meter?
.
What if it was "College Republican Dance Party". Having participated in many of these, I can assure you, there is no soul there.
.
Hecate --
Talk is cheap!
Come over here and "sit" by me..
~picks up drink and moves over to Prior's lap~
And my love for you increases.
Right back atcha, babe.
Why do you say that? A slave could be bought and sold, or killed at his master's whim. If you accept, as I do that the blastocyst is a human being, why ought I not draw the analogy?
See also the 4th, 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution.
In AD 177, at the age of 16, Marcus Aurelius made Commodus his co-ruler.
His accession was marked by the martydom of St Blandina. Her offence was to celebrate Easter in comepeition with the orgastic rights of Cybele. Blandia and her followers were rounded up and subjected to a six day death in the Arena. They were stripped naked and tied to stakes, then attacked by wild animals. Many of the creatures were trained to violate their victims sexually or do sodomise them before eating them.
Women were covered in grease made from the musk organs of a civet and were raped half to death bu a pack of wild dogs or were buggered by baboons while spectaors looked on. Victims were then consumed alive. Blandina herself was bundled up in a net and thrown in front of maddened bulls. Once she had been trampled to a bloody pulp, she had her head hacked off.
I'm feeling so judged right now...
==
*validating Marcia, while miffed that no one noticed her hilarious tech support joke amongst the 9000+ posts....*
Hecate Malificent too much spare time after all i am a slacker student
Study, practice; study, practice; study, practice...
Muad'Dib
I may need a tutor. Maybe Sylvan Learning Centers...
Many of the creatures were trained to violate their victims sexually or do sodomise them before eating them.
Wait, wait! I read this book! It involves bears, cages, and sticks, right???
A slave could be bought and sold, or killed at his master's whim. If you accept, as I do that the blastocyst is a human being, why ought I not draw the analogy?
You could also talk to a slave, make them act like a chicken just for fun, or have a drink with them when you were trying to seduce them. Let's face it, blastocysts just aren't that much fun. This obsession with them is a fad. Kind of like pet rocks used to be. Or cabbabge patch kids.
.
geez, this blogger breakdown is booooorrrrrriiiiinnnnngggggggggggggggg
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar (aka
Damn it, I'm dancing as fast as I can. Judger.
If you accept, as I do that the blastocyst is a human being, why ought I not draw the analogy?
You've almost got it Honey. Nobody here accepts that a blastocyst is a human being. Nobody. No one. Nada. Get it?
It's like the end of some old cartoon: The sun sets; they're still at it.
Wow, I come back after three hours and the same stuff is flying around!
Well...enough about abortion...let's talk about acid and amnesty!
Oh yes, and Hecate, where would you like to be bitten? I am an expert clitoris nibbler if you are into that kind of thing.
Is there a bottle of something emptying itself as you post?
DemByDefault
Why are you saying this like it's a bad thing? I'm feeling so judged right now...
Marcia Brady ?
I will throw no stone, nor empty Cabernet bottle, from within my house of glass....
The issue is that you, in turn, cannot disprove the existence of a soul in the unborn.
no the issue is: how do you search for it, test for it, recognize evidence of the opposite of what you are testing to disprove...
i know this is confusing for ya, cully. take a deep breath...calm yourself..
~picks up drink and moves over to Prior's lap~
Hecate Malificent
Hey, knock that off! I'm judging you...
All I got to say after reading this thread is that the rapture cannot come soon enough for me.
See also the 4th, 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution
Chimpy canceled the 4th. Didn't you get the memo?
--
See also the 4th, 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution
Chimpy canceled the 4th. Didn't you get the memo?
--
They were stripped naked and tied to stakes, then attacked by wild animals. Many of the creatures were trained to violate their victims sexually or do sodomise them before eating them.
You're making this stuff up.
The issue is that you, in turn, cannot disprove the existence of a soul in the unborn.
Anymore than you can disprove the fact that invisible gnomes live in my garden and sometimes break into my house and steal my socks one at a time.
In fact I think your life should be controlled by my belief in the invisible gnomes.
Is the troll's point that we should allow all blastocysts to grow into slaves? Or does it just not have a point?
Commodus adored the brutality of the gladitorial games.
the ones he staged were as bloodthirsty as anything that had been held under Caligula. He extended his palace so that the balaconies of his private apartments overlooked the arena which enabled him to watch the games day and night. Then in the early morning he would go chariot racing round the streets of Rome and crushing any hapless pedestrian who got in his way.
Many of the creatures were trained to violate their victims sexually or to sodomise them before eating them.
Does this strike any one else as perhaps an embellishment?
*validating Marcia, while miffed that no one noticed her hilarious tech support joke amongst the 9000+ posts....*
mena
Thank you for your support. And I thought you were serious about tech support. But then I've been rather busy judging...
I'm also having trouble deciding who is the funniest parody troll; Rehnquist or Merkin Patriot.
I may need a tutor. Maybe Sylvan Learning Centers...
Marcia Brady ∞
Got any grease made from the musk organs of a civet? On second thought, don't answer that.
Muad'Dib well of course the sources may of been exhagerating but Commodus was quite insane and was certanly given to excess.
and his father perscuted Christians a lot.
Women were covered in grease made from the musk organs of a civet and were raped half to death bu a pack of wild dogs or were buggered by baboons while spectaors looked on. Victims were then consumed alive. Blandina herself was bundled up in a net and thrown in front of maddened bulls. Once she had been trampled to a bloody pulp, she had her head hacked off.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre 9:21 pm
this guy was a republican before being republican was cool
If you accept, as I do that the blastocyst is a human being,
Well in that case they should get jobs and become productive members of society, or at least grow a fucking central nervous system.
still makes for a better story
Many of the creatures were trained to violate their victims sexually or to sodomise them before eating them.
Which means they were sodomizing on an empty stomach, which Drs. no longer recommend. And remember kids: wait 15 miuntes after eating before you sodomize, otherwise you'll get cramps and drown.
.
But in my case, my daughter's birth mother was a cocaine and alcohol addicted prostitute who sued me to overturn the adoption, but afterward went to prison for mentally, physically, and sexually abusing the son she did get back, so there's that.
As I have already said, I believe you.
As I also already said, the stereotype is very often abused. There are many myths in adoption, and the story of the crack ***** is one. That's the story my daughter's adoptors told her about me, in fact. That I was a big haired, coke using, bustier wearing ho.
If you knew me, you'd know just how hilarious that is.
And we both (at least I hope we both know) that child abuse crosses all known demographic boundaries.
Where I stand on adoption: I'm for adoption generally. However, I am against the practices of the adoption industry which coerce, market to, lie to, brainwash with guilt and otherwise coercively persuade or force young, mostly white, women into parting with their newborns so they can be adopted for profit.
I am against the commodification of children and the exploitation of women in this way.
Forced pregnancy is going to lead to a huge increase in these kinds of adoptions, and I am here to tell you that the psychological damage is enormous for the woman who loses her child, as well as for her future husband and children.
Healthy white infant adoption is just not the way the media and the industry portray it. It is devastating. We lost two women to suicide alone in the last twelve months - despondent over losing their newborns to "open" adoptions which closed immediately upon finalization.
And you know what? I'm willing to believe that you don't approve of such abusive practices, either.
sorry, but these cut and paste wiki entries are boring and aren't indicative of any knowledge or understanding.
Boooorrriiinngg!!!
The thread... she LIVES!!!
.
ou've almost got it Honey. Nobody here accepts that a blastocyst is a human being. Nobody. No one. Nada. Get it?
So, in other words, there is no room for a dissenting point of view on this blog?
and his father perscuted Christians a lot.
Marcus Aurelius? And I was going to buy his book.
Actually I own it already, in a crappy translation entitled "the Emperor's Handbook", and the intro reads like it was written for MBA candidates, but I was thinking of looking for a better one.
why do I think Blandina was a boring self-righteous twit?
and his father perscuted Christians a lot.
Moonbootica
Yeah, as Hontlia was ranting I was beginning to admire his father.
Have you read him?
The thread... she LIVES!!!
Actually we're debating that right now. Some say the thread is alive, others say its a blastocyst without a soul.
.
DemByDefault well Commodus stopped the perscution of Christians - started by his father - believe it or not.
How many posts we at? anybody have an inkling?
Is the troll's point that we should allow all blastocysts to grow into slaves? Or does it just not have a point?
Hecate Malificent
==
Nope. No apparent point, after scrolling through what looked like many hours of tedium while catching up. Except maybe that sunshine and puppies are good things.
well stopped the perscution of the Christians for the time being
Is the troll's point that we should allow all blastocysts to grow into slaves?
The secondary point seems to be that black folks are the equivalent of blastocysts.
So, in other words, there is no room for a dissenting point of view on this blog?
If your "point of view" is that your completely unproven beliefs get to control other peoples' lives, you're exactly right. Honey, I've got unproven beliefs that would curl your toenails. The difference it that I don't think my unproven beliefs should control your life. Capice?
Is this thing on?
Does this strike any one else as perhaps an embellishment?
Some of it I'm sure was the original Swiftboating... That Tiberius, he likes to fuck little boys and wounds he says he got in Gaul? mere scratches when he dropped his sowrd while cleaning it.
"DemByDefault well Commodus stopped the perscution of Christians - started by his father - believe it or not."
Just goes to show you should NOT get your history from Russell Crowe movies. And I don't care who hears me say it!! or well, reads it when I post it under a fake name...
On my way out the door; will you all still be here in the morning?
DemByDefault: How many posts we at? anybody have an inkling?
The one where you asked was #957.
.
If you accept, as I do that the blastocyst is a human being,
Well in that case they should get jobs and become productive members of society.
Right on, I'm tired of my tax dollars going to support lazy assed, do nothing blastocysts that are little more that parasites feeding off productive memebers of society. Welfare cells.
The secondary point seems to be that black folks are the equivalent of blastocysts
Yeah, funny how the very same people who were in favor of slavery are now totally interested in turning women into slaves, isn't it? And bugger all what sort of convoluted analogies they have to use to get there.
So, in other words, there is no room for a dissenting point of view on this blog
Your POV has taken up plenty of room tonight.
It's just that you simply have failed to persuade anyone.
well stopped the perscution of the Christians for the time being
Which reminds me, I'm accepting donations for my Lion Breeding Association.
Commodus had imment passion for his mistress Marcia, who had been recused as a baby (having been abanoned like most unwanted Roman babies) by a Christian called Hycinthus. He was said to be a eunch and a priest, he certainly brought up Marcia as a Christian.
Marcia acted as a go between the emperor and Pope Victor I.
The secondary point seems to be that black folks are the equivalent of blastocysts.
No no. You miss his point entirely. He was only saying that black folks who were slaves were the equivalent of blastocysts. It's a completely different thing. Right honti?
.
nd you know what? I'm willing to believe that you don't approve of such abusive practices, either.
Absolutely not. Hence my call for sane education regarding birth control
Oh come on, Old Man from Scene 24, there are no invisible gnomes.
They are homunculi.
One day the truth will set you free.
So, in other words, there is no room for a dissenting point of view on this blog?
Hontlia - 9:30 pm
rightee-oh, mate...
but look at it this way: why would you wanna hang around with folks with whom you had so little in common??? our way sez: honey, it's hard but it's your choice.
your way subjects all women to your personal whim; faith-based or not, it's still YOUR whim and THEIR bodies...
you just waste bandwidth around here, sport...your opinions are stupid, worthless, ill-thought, unoriginal, hackneyed, and spurious.
.
Women were covered in grease made from the musk organs of a civet and were raped half to death bu a pack of wild dogs or were buggered by baboons while spectaors looked on.
==
Moon - reminds me of an antique Chinese print I saw once - "Punishment by Horse Cock". It was included in an 'erotic art' show. *sigh*
Women were covered in grease made from the musk organs of a civet and were raped half to death bu a pack of wild dogs or were buggered by baboons while spectaors looked on.
==
Moon - reminds me of an antique Chinese print I saw once - "Punishment by Horse Cock". It was included in an 'erotic art' show. *sigh*
That anon comment was from me. Haloscan erased my info before I hit send, somehow.
Yeah, funny how the very same people who were in favor of slavery are now totally interested in turning women into slaves, isn't it?
Not women. Just their uteri. Sheesh, can't any of you understand the subtle distinctions?
.
This blogger issue has been going on for hours and hours. WTF? Google's search engine servers are fine...don't they own blogger/blogspot? Why are their blog servers down? smells like something was purposefully done.
And you know what? I'm willing to believe that you don't approve of such abusive practices, either.
Rage Time
Actually, I told my daughter that her birth mother loved her so much that she gave her to me because I could take good care of her.
It kind of got ruined when her birth mother got visitation rights that she fucked up before going to jail. So there's that.
And my baby was a drug-addicted black baby who is now a wonderful, annoying, mouthy, brilliant, talented teenager.
To say that adoption is a viable option for a black mother, especially one who has used drugs, is laughable. The number of black babies in permanent foster care is staggering.
A woman who chooses to abort her baby deserves all support possible. A woman who chooses to keep her baby and raise it on her own deserves all support possible. A woman who chooses to put her baby up for adoption deserves all support possible.
But the woman chooses.
Hyacinthus made a living by selling unwanted children he had found into harems or brothels, once they were old enough to serve in that capacity.
Marcia was lucky however, she was good looking and would reach a good price, so when she reached puberty she was sold as a sex slave to a Roman nobleman, who was a good friend of Commodus sister Livilla.
I'm feeling so judged right now...
*validating Marcia, while miffed that no one noticed her hilarious tech support joke amongst the 9000+ posts....*
mena
I'd like to violate Marcia too. She's had a rough go of it with Attila
Not women. Just their uteri. Sheesh, can't any of you understand the subtle distinctions?
.
William H. Rehnquist
Yeah, and I hate it when my uterus runs around doing things without me.
I've got an old book (printed in 1701) on Roman History covering Marcus Aurelius & Commodus (also Elagabalus & others) called "Wooton's History of Rome".
I've got an old book (printed in 1701) on Roman History covering Marcus Aurelius & Commodus (also Elagabalus & others) called "Wooton's History of Rome".
Opps! Validate. I meant validate.
They are homunculi.
That's unpossible!
The Old Man From Scene 24 cool.
i've brought a lot of books for my various modules (and some out of my own interests heh).
builds up to a nice little library thats for sure.
*Lucilla.
sorry it is 2:36am here and I think my brain is going......
hontila, you're dissenting, I'm arguing. Where's the problem?
Argue your point, take the criticism, do what you want, make your own judgements. It's a free wild and wacky world. Live according to your own lights.
Yeah, and I hate it when my uterus runs around doing things without me.
That's why I support uteri curfews and and notification laws that compel your uterus to notify you before doing anything related to reproduction. Some say that cramps and moodiness are enough of a warning. But I think that's not enough.
.
Opps! Validate. I meant validate.
Muad'Dib
===
Hmmmm.............
builds up to a nice little library thats for sure.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre - 9:41 pm
betcha there's a couple of decent bookstores in swansea, a University town, and port city, and close to ireland and all...
sorry it is 2:36am here and I think my brain is going......
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
No excuses! I'm feeling judgemental.
No luck refreshing. This a refreshment-free zone today.
satchel: smells like something was purposefully done.
Unlikely. Probably just groaning under its own weight. Imagine, if you can, how many servers it actually takes to provide millions of blogs with web serving, comments and storage.
.
Imagine, if you can, how many servers it actually takes to provide millions of blogs with web serving, comments and storage.
11 no wait 16. Crap. I forgot to study.
.
betcha there's a couple of decent bookstores in swansea, a University town, and port city, and close to ireland and all...
I'd be a wealthier woman today if I'd never wandered into a bookstore. Let my sad tale be a warning to you, Moonie.
Opps! Validate. I meant validate.
Muad'Dib
===
Hmmmm.............
mena
No really. Besides, it's Moon's fault. I've always fancied myself a Roman nobleman in a prior life. So naturally when she said,
Marcia was lucky however, she was good looking and would reach a good price, so when she reached puberty she was sold as a sex slave to a Roman nobleman
I got a little confused.
In AD 182, Lucilla had a huge falling out with Commodus wife Crispina, who it appeared at the time to be pregant, even tho she never produced an heir. According to Cassio Dio, Lucilla was "no more modest or chaste than her brother Commodus and detested her husband, Claudius Pompeianus".
She got her lover Marcus Ummidius Quadratus to persuade her daughters fiancé Claudius Pompeianus Quintianus, a young memeber of the senate to assassinate Commodus. He bungled it badly.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar yeah, well on campus we have Waterstones.
so most of our course texts can be found there, otherwise I order off Amazon if Waterstone doesn't stock it.
Rumor has it that blogger will be bloggered until Tuesday. That would be strange, indeed.
My post counter is stuck on 651
what about all y'alls'???
Opps! Validate. I meant validate.
Muad'Dib
Much better.
Probably.
my counter is stuck at 466
They are homunculi.
That's unpossible!
Hecate Malificent
I nonconcede: It's disimprobable, and I will post for over three hours to unreprove this truthitological disuncertainty!
My post counter is stuck on 651
==
You told me your counter was stuck on 420.
Marcia was lucky however, she was good looking and would reach a good price, so when she reached puberty she was sold as a sex slave to a Roman nobleman
I got a little confused.
Muad'Dib
I have never been sold as a sex slave to any nobleman, Roman or no.
Commodus never appeared in public after the attempt on his life and he quickly killed off those who opposed him and turned over political power to his new mistress Marcia and a series of advisors.
I have never been sold as a sex slave to any nobleman, Roman or no.
Which is why no one can make parallels between you and a blastocyst.
.
Well Moon was talking bout Roman times and I was trying to learn, then you said something about Usul and someone said homunculi and next thing you know there was violate.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar: what about all y'alls'???
Here's the secret: Look at the number on the first post (that's the value at the end of the "#" URL), and subtract that from the number of the last post.
.
Actually, I told my daughter that her birth mother loved her so much that she gave her to me because I could take good care of her.
That is what people usually do say to their kids,and many times it is the case that a pregnant woman has somehow been convinced that another person would be a better parent. Sometimes, like in your case, it is probably true, and sometimes it is probably not true.
I am very concerned that in the current climate, many,many more young women are going to fall into the trap of forced adoption where it is probably not true that the child is better off with someone else. I worry very much about young women of child bearing age and those approaching child bearing age.
The industry makes enormous profits from the placement of healthy white newborns. An increase in the baby supply or inventory, as they like to call it, represents an unmeasurable increase in the amount of misery vulnerable young women will experience in the future.
I nonconcede: It's disimprobable, and I will post for over three hours to unreprove this truthitological disuncertainty!
Uncle Smokes | Email | Homepage
===
I am so going to steal unreprove. It could mean about ten different things.
I'd be a wealthier woman today if I'd never wandered into a bookstore. Let my sad tale be a warning to you, Moonie.
Hecate Malificent - 9:47 pm
word, goddess...
when i left the professoriate, i parted with in excess of 3000 books (kept about 300, the essential stuff; it's funny, i havent read most of 'em in years, but they're there like accessible memory).
especially in foreign or strange cities, i cannot walk past a bookstore without wandering in...
especially those which handle 'perused' merchandise...
I have never been sold as a sex slave to any nobleman, Roman or no.
Marcia Brady ∞
Never fantasized about it either I'm sure.
Moonie,
Oh, well, Amazon; I see you're already a fallen woman. But, mind me, it won't end well.
Unlikely. Probably just groaning under its own weight. Imagine, if you can, how many servers it actually takes to provide millions of blogs with web serving, comments and storage.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian
Especially my blog, which would have hundreds of hits if it actually existed .
Although there is always Annie Angel's. She has naked pictures on hers. Nice Christian naked pictures.
I seem to be having trouble getting my salient points accross.
Every human being, born or unborn is precious.
We should do nothing to harm them.
We must create a just and equitable society that will ensure the dignity and welfare of all of its members.
Nobody knows when a baby becomes human. Why act recklessly and kill one before it gets a fair chance to live?
By some people's definition of life, my daughter should have been killed because she couldn't breathe on her own at birth. I find this deeply offensive and morally repugnant.
We argue so much about abortion while deeper moral issues like Darfur, Iraq and the spread of AIDS are of much grater importance.
We need to adopt a culture of life. Plain and simple.
Never fantasized about it either I'm sure.
Muad'Dib
No, really, do I know you?
Wow, we've blown past 1,000 posts.
Think how long it'd take to load with gravatars!
[Mena: What?! "Truthitological" and "disuncertainty" aren't good enough?! ]
especially those which handle 'perused' merchandise...
Oh, WGG, I agree. Those are the worst. I can walk past a B. Dalton's, but never a used book store. Or a small one. You know. With kind of small, many-paned windows and a cat sunning itself in the door.
I have never been sold as a sex slave to any nobleman, Roman or no.
Marcia Brady ∞
Never fantasized about it either I'm sure.
Muad'Dib
Maybe we should discuss this misunderstanding later, privately.
we just went over a Kilo
wheeeeeeeeee
the attempted murder pushed Commodus even further into erotomania.
Marcia organised a harem for him in the palace and "recruited both married women and whores". In total his seraglio consisted of 300 beautiful women and three hundred "ripe youths...plucked from every rank and every province, chosen for their beauty and their sexual accomplisments" in vain hope that this would deal with his lust. Then it is said he "abandoned himself without interuption to the most shameless and beastly debaucery and wallowed in every sensua filth".
The orgies were staged managed by his mistress Marcia who enjoyed showing off her opulent figure, wearing revealing clothing even when the Pope visted her.
very human being, born or unborn is precious.
There is no such thing as an unborn baby, you simple twat.
Although there is always Annie Angel's. She has naked pictures on hers. Nice Christian naked pictures.
Marcia Brady ? | 02.04.06 - 9:55 pm |
Is that icky or IXTHUS?
Although there is always Annie Angel's. She has naked pictures on hers. Nice Christian naked pictures.
Marcia Brady ? | 02.04.06 - 9:55 pm |
Is that icky or IXTHUS?
Commodus never appeared in public after the attempt on his life and he quickly killed off those who opposed him and turned over political power to his new mistress Marcia and a series of advisors.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
See, now that sounds much more like me. Except for the series of advisors stuff.
Think how long it'd take to load with gravatars!
I never got to use my gravatar. Atrios killed gravatars before before mine could be born, just like all those blastocysts.
.
especially those which handle 'perused' merchandise...
==
Or quirky independents. Or specialists. I have friend who don't get book lust. Why don't you just get them from the library, they ask. Because I'd have to give them back, I say.
spinoza: Is that icky or IXTHUS?
No, man -- it's Super Bowl XL.
.
We need to adopt a culture of life.
I'm not interested in becoming a whore to your culturalists.
Marcia organised a harem for him in the palace and "recruited both married women and whores". In total his seraglio consisted of 300 beautiful women and three hundred "ripe youths...plucked from every rank and every province, chosen for their beauty and their sexual accomplisments" in vain hope that this would deal with his lust. Then it is said he "abandoned himself without interuption to the most shameless and beastly debaucery and wallowed in every sensua filth".
The orgies were staged managed by his mistress Marcia who enjoyed showing off her opulent figure, wearing revealing clothing even when the Pope visted her.
Moonbootica,
I'm beginning to think of Commodus as a symathetic figure driven to erotomania by Marcia, how about you?
Is that icky or IXTHUS?
spinoza
A little from column A, a little from column B.
Not to say she's not physically hot, mind you.
It certainly had to be mentioned that even the most virile man is surely going to be exhausted by six hundred active young lovers - so he could not pay any sexual attention to Marcia. When Commodus virilitas flaccidus est. he would get boys and girls to perform an exoitic tableaux for him until he could get it up again and rejoin the orgy
Ah, forget the made-up words (neologisms!), my word for the day is "erotomania"!
Thanks, Moonbootica!
I love 3.5 hour arguments that no one could possible ever hope to "win," don't you?
.
There is no such thing as an unborn baby, you simple twat.
Evidently they are not simple. Because I have heard many a time, "Bill you don't understand the first thing about [female private parts reference].
.
Muad'Dib well it certanly did not help him recover heh.
just made him even more sex crazed!
On one occasion Commodus made the prefect of the Praetorian Guard strip and dance totally naked to the accompiments of cymbals in front of his concubines and catamites, who clapped loudly.
I love 3.5 hour arguments that no one could possible ever hope to "win," don't you?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian 10:02 pm
beats clipping your nails...
I love 3.5 hour arguments that no one could possible ever hope to "win," don't you?
==
Especially the paunchy, middle-aged kind!
Muad'Dib well it certanly did not help him recover heh.
just made him even more sex crazed!
Moonbootica,
What is it with people named Marcia anyway?
Do we have a designated owltender, yet? Do we have a volunteer, or do I need to pass out straws?
.
Do we have a designated owltender, yet?
==
Are there news threads? I can't even get the main page now.
What is it with people named Marcia anyway?
Muad'Dib
It's a curse, I guess.
Are there news threads? I can't even get the main page now.
mena
I can get the main page, but I can't get in through archives.
mena: Are there news threads? I can't even get the main page now.
Neither can I (or anyone else, most likely), but if one person "takes one for the team," checking every so often, then...
.
"Boy these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn, but once you're born, you're on your own! Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus, from conception to 9 months. After that they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you, no nothin'! No neo-natal care, no day care, no HeadStart, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothin'! If you're preborn you're fine, if you're preschool, you're fucked! You're fucked! Conservatives don't care about you until you reach military age. Then they think you are just fine. Just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies, so they can raise them to be dead soldiers."
-- George Carlin
My weakness is for old books, the older the better. I have lots of the other kind of books as well though.
I'm afraid to refresh. What if twenty years from now, we're still here talking on this thread kind of like those Japanese soldiers hiding out in the tropical forests for years after WWII???
Commodus had exahuasted his sisters and moved onto his cousins.
Beside enjoying non stop orgies, banquets and baths, he fought in the arena as a gladiator and among his chamberlains with sword points uncovered. He also had some pecuilar habits when it came to eating, he had two mishapped hunchbacks served up on a dish covered covered in mustard, it is said, mixed human excretment in rich food and ate it.
blogger is still quiescent...
no refreshment in sight...
who said something about tuesday?
fuck, i might just get sumpin done by then...
On one occasion Commodus made the prefect of the Praetorian Guard strip and dance totally naked to the accompiments of cymbals in front of his concubines and catamites, who clapped loudly.
Yeah, well Marcia was probably behind that too, especially if there were catamites involved.
this is a thread trapped in time and space!
Neither can I (or anyone else, most likely), but if one person "takes one for the team," checking every so often, then...
I've been checking regularly, and I can't get the page to load.
Ah, well.
I'm not interested in becoming a whore to your culturalists
there is no such thing as an unborn baby, you simple twat.
I haven't called you mean names, why should you be so uncivil to me?
He also had some pecuilar habits when it came to eating, he had two mishapped hunchbacks served up on a dish covered covered in mustard, it is said, mixed human excretment in rich food and ate it.
Ewwwww... now that's "icky" Lets hear more about depraved sex orgies.
two mishapped hunchbacks served up on a dish covered covered in mustard,
Let's move on to Honorius.
Bill O'reilly's about to get blotchier.
Haha!
"The Dodgeville School District, accused in December of launching an "attack on Christmas," has counterattacked the accusers. In a sharply worded letter from its lawyer, the district this week demanded a widely distributed apology, a retraction of claims the school's policies are "hostile" to the U.S. Constitution, and $23,899.48 in damages from the Liberty Counsel...
i would be happy to contriue my tales of depraved sex orgies but it is 3:05am here and I really must get some sleep.
you may have to wait till tomorrow for the next exicting chapter on ancient history porn
Hontlia: I haven't called you mean names, why should you be so uncivil to me?
Really! I mean, if you're not going to see Hontlia's point after over 3.5 hours, why not just ignore Hontlia altogether, instead of calling Hontlia names?
.
I'm not interested in becoming a whore to your culturalists
there is no such thing as an unborn baby, you simple twat.
I haven't called you mean names, why should you be so uncivil to me?
Are you under the misimpression that imposing your unproven beliefs on other people is civil? It's not. It's rude and it's not done in modern society. You've been farting and then sniffing loudly all evening long.
Hontlia you would not of had a choice under Caligula or Nero
if one person "takes one for the team," checking every so often, then...
==
Oh, okay, I just did and still no go. But I love Hecate's idea of hiding out on this thread for thirty years or so - we could create a whole new society! Of course, it would be completely defense-from-morons-based, so maybe the world could use something a little more positive. Or maybe not.
Really! I mean, if you're not going to see Hontlia's point after over 3.5 hours, why not just ignore Hontlia altogether, instead of calling Hontlia names?
.
Jeffraham Prestonian
I'm sorry. In my defense, I don't usually do that. I claim weakness. I'll try to do better.
if you're not going to see Hontlia's point after over 3.5 hours, why not just ignore Hontlia altogether, instead of calling Hontlia names?
It might start on about how the Earth is Really Flat or Intelligent Design or something.
I'm afraid to refresh. What if twenty years from now, we're still here talking on this thread kind of like those Japanese soldiers hiding out in the tropical forests for years after WWII???
Hecate Malificent
Submitted for your approval: Witness one Hecate Malificent. She merely wishes to banter with fellow posters on a popular blog. The internet is a wonderful place to trade ideas and recipes and cat photos, but what Hecate did not expect was to be trapped on a thread unwinding to...
The Twilight Zone.
[DingDahDingDongDingDahDingDongDingDahDingDong...]
Bush would not of lasted 1 second if he had lived during the Roman Empire.
he would of ended up a catamite i'll bet.
i would be happy to contriue my tales of depraved sex orgies but it is 3:05am here and I really must get some sleep.
you may have to wait till tomorrow for the next exicting chapter on ancient history porn
Moonbootica,
You've done a yeoman's job on a thankless task Moon. My hat's off to you.
I haven't called you mean names, why should you be so uncivil to me?
Hontlia | 02.04.06 - 10:09 pm
it is because you are so assured in your obdurate stupidity. there is no 'common' ground between those who believe a woman has the absolute right to determine the outcome of a pregnancy, and thos such as yourself who cannot grant them the sovereignty of their reproductive choices.
so by calling you names, we're doing the rhetorical equivalent of throwing shit and sticks and trash at you, saying go away, shit nozzle, go away.
.
Of course, it would be completely defense-from-morons-based, so maybe the world could use something a little more positive. Or maybe not.
mena
No, no, trolls would forget about us, the intelligentsia would be busy yelling "Frist"...
We could create our own society of Roman debauchery and stuff.
Bush would not of lasted 1 second if he had lived during the Roman Empire.
he would of ended up a catamite i'll bet.
To use an ancient axiom, water seeks its own level.
Muad'Dib as long as I have entertained you
Sigh
"I seem to be having trouble getting my salient points accross."
no, it's just that most people here disagree with you and don't think your points are salient, or sensible
"Every human being, born or unborn is precious."
Most people here think "unborn person" is an oxymoron.
"By some people's definition of life, my daughter should have been killed because she couldn't breathe on her own at birth. I find this deeply offensive and morally repugnant."
This is the most thoroughly dishonest thing you've said yet. Setting up a strawman in an attempt to emotionally undermine those who don't agree with you. You really ought to be ashamed of resorting to such a cheap tactic.
"We argue so much about abortion while deeper moral issues like Darfur, Iraq and the spread of AIDS are of much grater importance."
You're the one who keeps the argument going. You are not going to change anyone's mind on abortion, so why not discuss Darfur or Iraq if you have something to say on those topics?
"We need to adopt a culture of life. Plain and simple."
according to you terms, beliefs and definitions. There's nothing plain or simple about this.
You choose to be beleaguered, so the only pity you're going to get is that you obviously have for yourself.
Good night, good bye
On one occasion Commodus made the prefect of the Praetorian Guard strip and dance totally naked to the accompiments of cymbals in front of his concubines and catamites, who clapped loudly.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 10:04 pm | #
Hmmm, that might make House sessions or future SOTUs much more interesting. Might get CSPAN onto pay-per-view adults only as well.
On one occasion Commodus made the prefect of the Praetorian Guard strip and dance totally naked to the accompiments of cymbals in front of his concubines and catamites, who clapped loudly.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre | Email | Homepage | 02.04.06 - 10:04 pm | #
Hmmm, that might make House sessions or future SOTUs much more interesting. Might get CSPAN onto pay-per-view adults only as well.
thread orgies?
You've been farting and then sniffing loudly all evening long.
That was me. Sorry. I had no idea you could tell that sort of thing over the internets.
.
he would of ended up a catamite i'll bet.
Insert Bush is an asshole joke here.
Marcia Brady ∞: I'm sorry. In my defense, I don't usually do that. I claim weakness. I'll try to do better.
Well, you know, I was being a bit facetious, there. I'm just a bit entertained at someone who would spend 3.5+ hrs. (and yeah -- I had to check, since I've been in and out of this thread all day) barking up the same tree for so little reward.
.
thread orgies?
Moonbootica
I'll bring the dip.
god its like an addiction i want to tear myself away but i'm having such a good time!
Hontlia you would not of had a choice under Caligula or Nero
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
Please, no Caligula. I saw that movie....Yikes.
mena: Oh, okay, I just did and still no go. But I love Hecate's idea of hiding out on this thread for thirty years or so - we could create a whole new society! Of course, it would be completely defense-from-morons-based, so maybe the world could use something a little more positive. Or maybe not.
I'm betting the Haloscan't database would take a watery dump before the middle of Day Three, though.
.
we cling onto this thread like a life raft.
You've been farting and then sniffing loudly all evening long.
Hecate...thanks for the laugh. Most excellent.
This blogger issue is starting to bother me more and more. I know it's across the board with all blogspots but...I'm going to save our current haloscan url for tomorrow.
We could create our own society of Roman debauchery and stuff.
Marcia Brady ∞
Judging from tonight's history lesson your namesake was a vertiable Walmart of debauchery, which explains a great deal IMO.
[DingDahDingDongDingDahDingDongDingDahDingDong...]
==
Funniest transcription EVER!!
Oh, and in your intro, you left something out:
Submitted for your approval: Witness one Hecate Malificent. A simple litigation attorney and Wiccan priestess living a simple, quiet life in Washington, D.C.
I'll bring the dip.
Oh, for orgies, I want flavored condoms and pomegranate seeds, at the least. An orgy ought to be better than a Super Bowl (speaking of bread and circuses) party.
Judging from tonight's history lesson your namesake was a vertiable Walmart of debauchery, which explains a great deal IMO.
Muad'Dib
I'm not sure what you're implying. I don't patronize WalMart...
Oh, for orgies, I want flavored condoms and pomegranate seeds, at the least. An orgy ought to be better than a Super Bowl (speaking of bread and circuses) party.
Hecate Malificent
Yay! Pomegranate seeds and orange sections and dark grapes and wine and big, long loaves of fresh bread.
I'm so there...
We could create our own society of Roman debauchery and stuff.
Marcia Brady ∞
==
I call NOT being a slave. I think I can prove I'm not a blastocyst.
Oh, for orgies, I want flavored condoms and pomegranate seeds
condoms and pomegranite seeds?
izzat a kind of impromptu french tickler?,
well perhaps i can fit one more tale
the tale of Valerian the only Roman Emperor taken captive.
Oh, for orgies, I want flavored condoms and pomegranate seeds, at the least. An orgy ought to be better than a Super Bowl (speaking of bread and circuses) party.
Hecate
Can there be breast cupping with gentle nipple twisting too?
Judging from tonight's history lesson your namesake was a vertiable Walmart of debauchery, which explains a great deal IMO.
Muad'Dib
I like the debauchery at Walmart because even though it's low-quality debauchery, I can get a lot of it at a low low price.
.
Can there be breast cupping with gentle nipple twisting too?
Muad'Dib
I knew it. You bastard.
we cling onto this thread like a life raft.
Moonbootica,
It's like our own little fallout shelter.
n the beginning of his reign the affairs in Europe went from bad to worse and the whole West fell into disorder.
This reminds me of somone.
I call NOT being a slave. I think I can prove I'm not a blastocyst.
mena
Go ahead. I want to see this.
I like the debauchery at Walmart because even though it's low-quality debauchery, I can get a lot of it at a low low price.
I'm liking the dead chief justice's legal opinions more and more.
thread orgies?
Moonbootica
I'll bring the dip.
Uncle Smokes
==
It wouldn't be an orgy without it! And if there'll be pomegranates, then I want lark's tongues. In fact, I want to demand them, and stamp my little foot.
Oh, and Moon. You're young, you can make up the sleep.
I'll bring the dip.
Oh, for orgies, I want flavored condoms and pomegranate seeds, at the least. An orgy ought to be better than a Super Bowl (speaking of bread and circuses) party.
Hecate Malificent
Strawberry-flavored condoms filled to bursting with crushed pomegranate seed dip, piled like shiny pink homemade sausages--Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
after Valerian was captured he was made to go on all fours so that Shapur I could step on his back.
With Valerian in that positino, Sharpur ruled that any citizen in his kingdom, down the lowest begger or leper had the right to sodomise the captured emperor, it has also been suggested dogs were were allowed to mount him from behind.
Valerian's wife Mariniana waas treated much the same way, often within sight of her husband.
I call NOT being a slave. I think I can prove I'm not a blastocyst.
But you are female so ... sorry -- no freedom for you!
It's like our own little fallout shelter.
I bet I still have links to other comment threads from earlier today. We might have to harvest our history caches if this thread gets iffy.
We need to be wary of the Stockholm syndrome...
and the life boat synddrome...
and tourrette's goddamit to fuckinghellshitpisscunt syndrome
and tourrette's goddamit to fuckinghellshitpisscunt syndrome
This went on for many years until Valerian died of old age. His skin was then stripped from his body and decorated with coloured inks and hung in the Persian emperors apartments. By this time Marianiana had been relieved of her sufferings.
Only after Persian defeat in last Persia-Roman war three and a half centuries later was his skin destroyed.
and the life boat synddrome...
And the Tallulah Bankhead syndrome.
izzat a kind of impromptu french tickler?,
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar
==
Wait. I thought it was obvious that our orgies should be more seemly. Along with recognizing the utter sanctity of life, and shit.
Go ahead. I want to see this.
Marcia Brady ∞
==
Too easy. Can a blastocyst do THIS?
Can there be breast cupping with gentle nipple twisting too?
Muad'Dib
I knew it. You bastard.
Marcia Brady ∞
Does that mean you like it?
Has the silly blostocysts-are-people-too loon gone home?
I suffer from petite-tourette: flipping-heck-poop-weewee-woowoo!
[Movie geek note: the last one comes from Mel Brooks' High Anxiety.]
I am very tired after all this arguing.
I'm going to bed.
We need to come up with a centrist position on abortion. I think mine is fair to everyone.
Good Night
Too easy. Can a blastocyst do THIS?
mena
Maybe. I've never met a blastocyst.
Has the silly blostocysts-are-people-too loon gone home?
Our plans to hide out on this thread forever, eat dip, larks tongues, and pomegranates, while Moonie tells us stories of Roman porn appear to have scared it off.
We need to come up with a centrist position on abortion. I think mine is fair to everyone.
I assume that was a royal "we."
Followed by a royal flush.
[Thank you Yes, Prime Minister]
Maximian, was co-Emperor with Diocletian and according to the Christian historian Lactatinus Firmius, who was alive at the time, said in his On The Deaths of Perscutors that Diocletian best mate "plunged into the vices of the worst tyrants".
We need to come up with a centrist position on abortion. I think mine is fair to everyone.
Except to the blastocysts, my friend. They have neither the right to vote nor drink even though they are called on to fight for their country.
.
Boy whoever that is, they sure cannot take a hint. She has been trolling for HOURS and never answered my damned question. Oh well
"He did not scruple to carry off by force any young girls whom he took a fancy to, even in the sight of their parents, whom he compelled to witness their dishonour" said Firmius.
Does that mean you like it?
Muad'Dib
I think you need to go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.
But you are female so ... sorry -- no freedom for you!
---------
Maybe. I've never met a blastocyst.
=====
*unbelieveably frustrated*
We need to come up with a centrist position on abortion. I think mine is fair to everyone.
Sure. And a centrist position on slavery.
And a centrist postition between your naive belief that you own your home and my belief that I can move it and take over.
And a centrist position between the notion that war is hell and the notion that war is good for the economy.
Let's come up with centrist positions on everything! Bollox fair or just or right! Centrism uber alles.
I just sent an e-mail to Eli & NTodd, lettin' them know where to find us, btw.
.
Maximian was a couraegous and violent man, he struck terror into the hearts of his opponents.
"His incontience made it not less so than to women of virtue in those places through which he passed" said Lacatius
*unbelieveably frustrated*
mena
Here, have a drink, you little fetus, you...
"He did not scruple to carry off by force any young girls whom he took a fancy to, even in the sight of their parents, whom he compelled to witness their dishonour" said Firmius.
And about 15 minutes later Firmius was Flaccidus.
.
strangly, refresh has brought an open thread time stamped from 9:24 this evening.
I am very tired after all this arguing.
===
Your head must hurt pretty bad.
Too easy. Can a blastocyst do THIS?
mena
New funding for education: Wireless laptops for blastocysts to regain our competitive edge.
(Now that I think about it--no laps, so I guess it would be membrane-tops?)
Gah. Someone whack 'em with an oar, willya? It's still flopping around.
"Boy whoever that is, they sure cannot take a hint. She has been trolling for HOURS and never answered my damned question. Oh well"
She was a he. He weaselled out on Marcia's direct question, too. But then she is having an affair with that Commodius gomer.
I think "centrist position" means "everybody do it my way and we'll get along fine". So he's a uniter, not a divider.
and tourrette's goddamit to fuckinghellshitpisscunt syndrome
Hecate Malificent - 10:30 pm
shaq played at lsu. when he was a freshman, there was a kid named chris jackson (later played for denver as Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf) was point guard. he had tourrettes, and it was just funnier than shit to listen while chris brought the ball up-court, mumbling curses, profanities, obscenities indiscriminately ... and apparently unconsciously...
.
Together Diocletian and Maximian had one final push of perscuting the christians. After all paganism as praticised back then was way more fun.
We need to come up with a centrist position on abortion. I think mine is fair to everyone.
Good Night
Hontlia
No, it's not.
I just sent an e-mail to Eli & NTodd, lettin' them know where to find us, btw.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian
Did you tell them to bring pomegranates or young boys?
You know what's yummy? Christian blostocysts. On toast. Like caviar.
What's up?
1000 posts, damn.
This place is nuts.
Any FDL regs in here?
Having a problem getting into the lake tonight.
Let me know,
T-
For those who don't already know, the home page just loaded, and there's an open owl here.
I think you need to go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.
Marcia Brady ∞
Am I going to be punished, and if so will you be wearing anything special?
I believe we are all just blastocysts inside.
Owl blastocysts are being served.
"His incontience made it not less so than to women of virtue in those places through which he passed" said Lacatius
Huh, he was Lacatius intolerant and that made him incontinent?
"Gah. Someone whack 'em with an oar, willya? It's still flopping around."
Thers, that's the second time you've made me laugh out loud. My poor dog has now woken up twice. He'll be lucky to get twenty-three hours of solid shut eye if this keeps up.
Together Diocletian and Maximian had one final push of perscuting the christians. After all paganism as praticised back then was way more fun.
Moonbootica, Die Walküre
==
I'm pretty sure that's why they were called the Dark Ages.
N'mind, got in.
Later.
Peace, ya'll.
N'mind, got in.
Later.
Peace, ya'll.
Maximian was a big ugly man with a huge black beard despite this he managed to marry the very pretty Galeria Valeria Eutropia who was related to his co-emperor Constantius.
HELL, THE DAMNED SITE JUST LOADED!
i think blogger's settled for a while
quick jump before it crashes again
Fresh thread upstairs, if it works for you. If not, How do I get the address for the fresh thread?
We need to adopt a culture of life. Plain and simple.
Hontlia the beleagured
Take your Repuke beliefs over to Freeperville.
"Without abortion, women would be less healthy, less educated, less able to realize their gifts and talents, less able to choose their mates; children would be cared for worse and provided for less well; sex would be blighted by fear of pregnancy, as it used to be back in the good old days; families would be even more screwed up than they already are; there would be more single mothers who can't cope, more divorce, more poverty, and more unhappy people feeling sandbagged by circumstance"
Pretty much sums up the entire Republican platform...
" We need to adopt a culture of life. Plain and simple."
nothing wrong with that. But it does mean differnet things to different people.
For liberals, culture of life has everything to do with: QUALITY OF LIFE, which means that in the unfortunate case of an unwanted pregancy, the woman has a difficult choice to make.
For repukelicans, their so-called "culture of life" has nothing to do with life, but has everything to do with manipulating people's lives.
.
Katha Pollitt rocks my world.
My wife and I don't have any kids, but we did have one abortion a year after we got married. The pregnancy was my idea; the abortion was hers. Three weeks later she called me from a workshop she was attending in California to tell me she was pregnant. I was overjoyed. Then she told me she was going to abort. I told her it was her decision and I tried to convince her to change her mind, but I was there for her a few weeks later in the waiting room before and after the procedure. That was nearly twenty years ago and we're still married. Many of our friends now have kids in college and it is a source of some regret, mostly for me, though not in the least unmanageable. The name that unborn child would have carried can now be traced in a direct line of descent to an individual born near Leipzig in 1672 who was instrumental (a church organist) in bringing about the Enlightenment. Records had not been available until quite recently due to Cold War politics. How useful are pedigrees in college admissions these days anyway? Sperm samples are available upon request.
I had an abortion almost 20 years ago and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I have never felt regret or guilty and I thank my lucky stars I had a choice.
Personally, I don't take seriously any man's perspective on abortion because they aren't able to truly understand what it's like to be in a position of having to make that choice.
Well,ViacomSux:
Go ahead and write off half of the human race. Phillip K. Dick said it well, to paraphrase: "Abortion is the sacrement of selfish bitches, who will not have anything interfere with their convenience, even it requires the murder of those least able to protect themselves." or abortion is simply the murder of the inconvenient.
So take your "you're a man and wouldn't understand" attitude and get fucked.
Snowball, I'm sure you are very receptive to new legislation mandating that men who are involved in unwanted pregnancies or fall behind on their child support payments get a snip job, hmmn? After all, not wanting to pay child support or take responsibility for your sperm is just selfish, right? It's a very simple proceedure - day surgery - and serves such an important social purpose.
Kim,
I fathered four children, three of which are still living. I loved, supported and reared all of them. I had my snip job after my twins were born in 1997. I don't quite see the point that you are making. I do not see much reason to disagree with you. I do find it ironic, though, that someone like ViacomSux absolutely rejects any male input into choice, but by her own deserts, why should the man have to support a child that he does not want? It may not gestate inside his body, but an unwanted child can be just as disruptive for a man as for a woman. Choice is such an innocuous word. Too bad that about thousands of times a year, viable fetuses, aka babies end up dead in a bucket. Third trimester abortions on healthy fetuses is a monstrosity, but hey the idea of psychological health allows the abortion of any fetus up to the time of birth. ViacomSux's aborted fetus may have felt regret, but was unavailable for comment. Just to be clear, my own personal view is that abortion on demand should be available thru the first trimester, and not at all later except for documented serious birth defects. It's the It's the "I have no guilt or regret" mantra that pisses me off. Abortion is a serious affair, and comments like ViacomSux's serve only to trivialize it.
Also,
Prochoice people are aborting themselves out of existence. Since Roe v Wade, about 45 million abortions have been performed in the US, almost all as a matter of choice. About 20+ million of these would be potential voters today, if they only existed. In the meantime, all the prolife babies that were not aborted and turned 18 in 1991 and later go to the polls and vote much like their prolife parents. Demographics are against the prochoice cohort. Besides, overturning Roe would have little real impact. Prochoice states would still provide easy access to abortions, and prolife states would not. In prolife states, it is difficult to get an elective abortion in any case. The whole issue would go back to the states where it belongs. It is only a SCOTUS that substituted it view of correct public policy for that of individual state legislatures that screwed this up so badly. Had they left it alone, the issue would have resolved itself by now.
Snowball, sorry to hear about the loss of one of your children. While I applaud your responsible decision regarding your own reproduction, the point I was trying to make is that YOU can best make those decisions. There are certainly a lot of people who are irresponsible with their reproductive capacity, but though it seems seductive for society to subtitute our judgment for theirs, ultimately either forcing someone to carry a preganancy to term (which is a very big deal medically) OR forcing a man to have a snip job is not such a good idea. As bad as individual judgment can be at times, giving the goverment the ability to make the decision instead leads to the potential for mistakes made on a large scale and enforced by violence and imprisionment. Whether it is a Chineese one child one family policy or a pop out more kids we need cannon fodder policy, no one's reproduction should be part of a national scheme, and if you take the decision away from individuals, that is what it has the potential to be.
Sorry but I'll only let men who take part in my "what it's like to be pregnant" program have any say over a woman's pregnancy. You have to take drugs to induce morning sickness, go to doctor's appointments, gain 20 pounds, not drink or smoke, and stick your hand in a jar to see if you "win" one of the grand prizes: serious medical complications possibly including death, losing your job (my mom was fired for being pregnant - her boss told her flat out, and don't think it does not still happen), having to raise the child with no finanical support, having to raise a special needs child, and perhaps all while battling poverty, drug addiction, or serious mental health problems. If you aren't willing to sign up, I'm not going to be terribly persuaded by your opinion.
I don't thnk third trimester abortion is legal in any state except to save the mother's life or health.
Finally, don't fool yourself about leaving this to the states. This is going to be like the Fugitive Slave Act, with women fleeing from Utah to New York for an abortion, Utah trying to criminalize going out of state for the proceedure, trying to enforce its statute in New York courts and extradite the woman back to Utah, New York refusing . . . . See where I am going with this? In the meantime Utah teenagers going on the internet and buying snake oil from Mexico that is supposed to induce an abortion, giving some to a friend, going to jail for it . . . . and on and on.
I've done a lot a charitable work in child abuse prevention, and if that were not so necessary, maybe I could get a little more worried about the fate of the unborn, but I can't. Ironically, the rabid anti-choice folks (which you don't seem to be though your tone is a bit strident) just don't impress me as caring much about the non-invitro in this world.
Snowball,
My opninion doesn't trivilize the seriousness of deciding to have an abortion. Even though I have no regrets whatsoever doesn't mean I didn't struggle with the choice in the first place.
It's people like you that continue to make abortion so taboo that women like myself can't admit to having an abortion without being attacked for making that choice.
And, you have no clue as to my opinion of fathers and child support, unless you've learned to read minds. If that's the case, I hear the NSA is hiring.
ViacomSux and bmc90:
First, the psychological "health" exception to limits on third trimester abortions is a loophole big enough to legally allow the abortion of a healthy 39 week fetus.
Second, you don't want my tolerance for abortion. I already do that because I know hard situations make for hard choices. Rather, you want my approval, which depends on the circumstances.
Third, as to your opinion on men and child support, I do not know, and I did not ask. I merely commented that the man is on the hook if the woman wants him to be. To make the argument that it is your body and that you are the one that goes thru pregnancy and labor is one thing, but to make the argument that abortion is justified in that it limits post natal choices can just as easily be used to excuse the man from support because he did not want the child and objects to restricting his choices because he has to pay for child rearing.
Again, your flat absolute rejection of male input on abortion trivializes a non trivial issue. Men have cares and concerns too. To ignore this fact says the: "Only I am importants, you are nothing".
One thing bmc90 that has always disturbed me. I tend to refer to the opposites on the issue of abortion by their selfprofessed descriptions. By the prochoice side's invariant referral to the right to lifers as "antichoice", it is just as legitimate for the prolife crowd to refer to you as prodeath, but I haven't seen this.
I think the possibilty of a fugitive slave law is silly. We have learned something in the past 150 years.
BTY, thanks for your compassion about the loss of my firstborn. She was killed by a drunk driver in 1992 and I miss her every day.
Best to each of you
Tom
"Again, your flat absolute rejection of male input on abortion trivializes a non trivial issue. Men have cares and concerns too. To ignore this fact says the: "Only I am importants, you are nothing"."
If you're talking about men caring and being concerned for the fetus over the mother then I will reject everything that comes out of their mouths.
I know this upsets you, but your opinion on abortion means nothing to me. And, when it comes to *my* body, I will be as selfish as I want to be. If that gets your panties in a wad then you need to ask yourself why you feel so strongly about controlling a woman you don't even know.
FWIW, nice try attempting to pass yourself as a moderate pro-lifer but you've got the radical talking points scattered throughout all your posts.
Mark me down as one of the grateful and relieved women! 16 years later, I'm still peeved that, at the time, RU-486 was still banned, so I had to wait 6.5 weeks for the procedure.
That is why I fight for abortion rights and to let women and their doctors make the decisions, not religious nuts and legislators. I shouldn't have had to wait. I shouldn't have had to take the extra risk to my health. I'm glad that pill is now a legal option for women.
Let's get Plan B made OTC next! And let's make sure abortion stays legal and safe!
ViacomSux:
To put this in terms that your give no quarter to any man little mind can follow, consider the following. My wife and I have been married for 17 years. She is to the prochoice side of neutral. I am to the prolife side, but do understand what I said earlier, that hard situations make for hard choices. If I were fertile and she were to accidently become pregnant, we would discuss it and probably have a very early abortion. If however she went well into the pregnancy, particularly the third trimester, and decided to have an elective abortion, no matter what I thought, her actions would probably destroy our marriage. This would not happen becasuse she is not a self absorbed, "fuck anyone else's concerns or feelings" person like you seem to be. I am not trying to pass myself off as a moderate prolifer. I have simply described my own coming to terms with the reality of abortion. In any case, I am not trying to appeal to your moderate side, as by your own declarations, you have none. My twins were born at 29 weeks gestation. They are now normal healthy girls. I find it monstrous that they could have been legally aborted in any abortion clinic in the US, if a physician could certify that the mother's psychological health would be damaged by carrying them to term. If you have a partner that feels that it's OK to abort his fetus at any time for any reason without any concern or consideration of their views, then good for you. If they are content to be sperm donors and nothing else, then good for them.
Again, best of luck to you.
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