I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Jeez you gotta be quick around here!
Good for her.
thrid!
furth
5th
how can they critique pre-emptive war, 9/11 changed everything.
I work near the New School and one day chatted with some students who wanted their school to rescind its invitation to McCain. They were a smart bunch, mostly concerned that people on the center-left give McCain such a pass that we don't even treat him like what he is... a conservative.
I figured their effort to get the speaking engagement cancelled was doomed to failure, but it's nice to see that they tempered McCain's speech with an effective and pre-emptive rebuttal.
Has Malkin stroked out about this impertinence?
The world's worst comic strip...not named Mallard Fillmore
Hope Ms. Rohe likes lemon chicken and two kinds of fruit.
"I am young, and although I don't profess to possess the wisdom that time affords us, I do know that pre-emptive war is dangerous and wrong," she said.
Johnnie Angel's halo appears to be askew.
I'd like to bring something from below regarding the virtual "Iranian Incubator" story and note how Fucktards and enablers like the Doughy Pantload still beat the war drum EVEN when proved wrong...
LIKE FUCKING CLOCKWORK COMES THE DOUGHY PANTLOAD!!!!
Not A Law Yet [Jonah Goldberg]
That story about Iran forcing Jews and other minorities to wear badges seems to have overstated things. But it certainly sounds like something some Iranians were talking about.
Posted at 7:02 AM
There is simply no deflecting people from their desire to demonize as much as possible to justify the death of more folks at the wrong end our our bombs.
OhFerCryingOutLoud:
"Mr. Kerrey, on stage, had accused the protesters of 'heckling from the audience where no bravery is required.'"
As opposed to the bravery of haranguing an audience, there to receieve their worked-and-paid-for diplomas, from behind a podium mike, safely fixed in the office of University President while the audience faces an uncertain future.
Haloscan keeps saying to me 'no username'
oh it seems to of corrected itself
for people like me who were slow wakin up,
amy sedaris' cspan2 appearance will repeat tonight @ 10pm
Nice comic, Atta!
all the bugs of haloscam seem to have sprung at one time!
Nice comic, Atta!
plantsman, lowercase
Thanks.
Tragically for all of you, there are two more panels (and blogwhores) to come.
I apologize in advance.
Justify my Love: Chimpy.
OT: Students take to the streets as lecturers' pay row deadlocks
· Vice chancellors insist their 12.6% offer is final
· Protesting students claim they are pawns in dispute
Hundreds of students took to the streets yesterday after an emergency meeting of vice-chancellors failed to break the deadlock in a long running pay dispute that is bringing chaos to university campuses around the country.
More than 300,000 final year students face not having exams or coursework marked and some still do not know whether they will have any exams to sit because of industrial action.
Yesterday the prospect of a settlement receded after the employers' association said there was no prospect of increasing its offer of a 12.6% increase over three years.
"This is at the very limits - and for some institutions beyond - what is affordable," Geoffrey Copland, chairman of the universities employers group Ucea said following yesterday's meeting.
"I paid for this microphone!"
-- Ronald Reagan
More please.
McCain is the real threat now. And if we don't recognize this fact and focus our efforts on exposing him he will be our next president.
Here's an impertinent protester at LSU yesterday taking an awful chance Cheney would shoot her in the face. (just pic)
"I paid for this microphone!"
shame you can't remember who you are.
say it to hillary and schumer.
As opposed to the bravery of haranguing an audience, there to receieve their worked-and-paid-for diplomas, from behind a podium mike, safely fixed in the office of University President while the audience faces an uncertain future.
Uncle Smokes
brilliant!!
Kerrey = centrist. Centrists are not known for their "bravery".
Wow!! Good for her!
I feel myself getting angry that he would dismiss the opinions of a younger person. I certainly wouldn't have tolerated it then any more than I tolerate it now.
And you know what? If he feels so superior, he should freaking know better than to wage war pre-emptively and one like this, because he actually experienced the horrors of such a war.
What does it say about Senator McCain that he didn't learn from that mistake? He sets a very poor example for the younger generation, he's wrong, and they're calling him on it.
Bravo!
I for one intend to everything I can tarnish Johnnie Angel's reputation.
/looks for shelley fabares 45's
Supposedly he is to speak at the Columbia graduation as well - after this will he give the same speech? Unfortunate for the graduates and the families that want to celebrate if he does.
kerrey's a bigger wanker than mccain, actually
Are these commencement speeches compensated?
GOOD ON HER
read this on bartcop
The War on Jim McDermott
Link
Excerpt:
McDermott tells me the story of how Boehner came to be his political nemesis. It's a long, slightly bizarre story
that begins in 1996 and involves leaks and litigation, plus a cast of characters that includes former Gingrich, Clinton,
a nosy Florida couple with a police scanner, and nearly 20 major media organizations. The story has its roots in a
previous Republican ethics scandal in Congress, but at its core it is about take-no-prisoners politics and a challenge
to First Amendment freedoms—a challenge that has alarmed free-speech advocates.
What concerns McDermott most these days is the story's ending, which is still unwritten.
Remember when Gingrich got caught plotting an illegal comeback?
The whore press focused on how the evidence that proved he was guilty was obtained.
Someone illegally pressed "Record" and caught the crime in progress, so that made it OK.
kerrey's a bigger wanker than mccain, actually
but, but, they're veterans!
kerrey's a bigger wanker than mccain, actually
Atrios
McCain dropped his bombs safely from the sky where war crimes are hard to finger and you drop 'em because you are ordered to by a higher class of war criminal.
Kerry committed his first hand, at ground level, where he could see 'em committed from his machine gun firin' hands.
wankerism is a derivative art.
Actually pre-emptive war is sometimes required for national survival, and accepted as such under international law. But Iraq was NOT a pre-emptive war, since Iraq wasn't about to attack us. And that's another kettle of blood entirely.
"Now, now, children, you need to settle down.
W"hat you did was very cute, but you simply don't understand. Go away now, and let the grown-ups talk."
John McCain, Maverick and Senior Citizen (anybody else hear echoes of Vietnam in this?)
How 'bout some fresh ideas, Johnnie?
kerrey's a bigger wanker than mccain, actually
There's a wanker scale? Is it logarithmic? If it's like the Richter scale, I would put both McCain and Kerrey about 5.8. Our trolls are 1.5-2.5.
makes me proud to be a New Yorker.
Go fuck yourself, McCain.
kerrey's a bigger wanker than mccain, actually
Atrios
Bob Kerrey?
Or John Kerry?
As I recall (and just typing those names, now they both look wrong) they spell it differently.
Did anybody notice that a "war on the catholic church" is playing at theatres nationwide?
yeah, bob kerrey. correct spelling.
What does it say about Senator McCain that he didn't learn from that mistake? He sets a very poor example for the younger generation, he's wrong, and they're calling him on it.
Bravo!
pie | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 9:50 am | #
**********************************
you are so silleigh pie
they should be DESIGNATED CANNON FODDER
without dissent
During the 2008 campaign for the nominations to the presidency, you can rest assured that McCain will, once again, be the darling of the MSM.
They will paint him as a moderate, a war hero and a man with an open mind and scruples.
But in fact, the only thing he can truly claim is acting bravely while in the Vietnam war, and that doesn't entitle you to the presidency as John Kerry found out.
And by giving the same speech to graduates at Liberty, Columbia University and the New School, Mr. McCain appeared intent on restoring his reputation as a straight talker
Wouldn't that be a repetitious talker?
Did anybody notice that a "war on the catholic church" is playing at theatres nationwide?
plantsman, lowercase
Does that have Crazy Bill Donohue lecturing in front of a giant bleeding cross?
Is bill donohue ever not in a lather?
Did anybody notice that a "war on the catholic church" is playing at theatres nationwide?
You mean the Caligula remake starring Cardinal Spellman?
The racy 'Caligula' with the fisting scene?
Is bill donohue ever not in a lather?
plantsman, lowercase
Only after rinse, and repeat.
wow, Mary Cheney says the GWOT means that changing the constitution to embody prejudice is okay.
Clamping down on sex, complaining about permissive music, videogames, and other pop culture, stumping for unpopular agressive war while trying to evoke World War II sentiments, denigrating the youth that is caught in the crosshairs: Welcome to the beginnings of a new Generation Gap.
Bow tie daddy don'tcha blow your top
Everything's under control
Bow tie daddy don'tcha blow your top
'Cause you think you're gettin' too old
Don't try to do no thinkin'
Just go on with your drinkin'
Just have your fun, you old son of a gun
Then drive home in your Lincoln
-- The Mothers of Invention
kerrey's a bigger wanker than mccain, actually
Atrios
Again, another big talker on the 9/11 Commission who eventually caved to the Silencers.
Another kentucky coal mine disaster.
/osha, anyone?
The Catholic Church has a dismal record with regard to human rights and common decency, but this is true of every entity that people concede power to.
The problem is that humans are corrupted by power, which is why no one or one-party should ever be allowed to have a monopoly on it.
Whether the Church or a fascist government or the Taliban, whenever there are no checks and balances on power you can be sure people will be murdered unless they obey the Authority like good little slaves.
wow, Mary Cheney says the GWOT means that changing the constitution to embody prejudice is okay.
ah, the endless parade of self-hating gays!
A needs to fix the linky in the post below.
The problem is that humans are corrupted by power, which is why no one or one-party should ever be allowed to have a monopoly on it.
That's why Eli must be stopped.
and that doesn't entitle you to the presidency as John Kerry found out
The problem with McCain is he somehow keeps the appearance of a maverick. He publicly disagrees with Bush often enough to look like something different or new. For the people who simply don't know the details he's going to look like a good candidate.
Kissing up on Jerry Falwell is downright distateful.
'endless parade of self-hating gays!
plantsman, lowercase'
oh, and polls showed that everyone tho't Kerry was in appropriate. They 'gasped'. This one sure has no pride. When does she get to where Clinton did it?
That's why Eli must be stopped.
spinoza
_____________________
Who else would I be talking about?
But Iraq was NOT a pre-emptive war,
You're right, of course. It was a preventive war. Not the same thing in terms of a threat level.
Kissing up on Jerry Falwell is downright distateful
Though I catch shit for it here I maintain that kissing up to Robertson is no different.
NANA!!!
watertiger | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 10:00 am | #
i would have captioned this:
"it's a good thing jeff was there, or i would have looked like this."
That's why Eli must be stopped.
spinoza
Engage the preemptive bombing -- Eli hates us for our freedom, etc.
think clusterfuck. think "unity government."
Another kentucky coal mine disaster.
/osha, anyone?
plantsman, lowercase
It angers me to consider that the long and bloody history of the Labor Movement in this country started with coal miners, and what they died for continues to happen.
I'm enjoying a weekend after five 8-hour work days because of lives put on the line to challenge the brutality of profits before people.
Union now. Union forever.
but, robertson, he CRAZY!
It's the complete lack of self-awareness I can't abide:
After yesterday's event, Mr. McCain told reporters he felt "fine" about his reception. "I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't listen to the views of others," he said.
One of the striking facts that emerges if you read enough of Media Matters is that it's what the Media doesn't say that is often far more important than what it does say.
What they leave out is often crucial data about a Gooper or some Gooper policies.
What they choose to tell you is often misleading because of the missing context.
and we have enough coal for hundreds more years of this senseless slaughter!
But Iraq was NOT a pre-emptive war,
You're right, of course. It was a preventive war. Not the same thing in terms of a threat level.
pie - 10:06 am
it is neither...
it certainly prevented nothing...
it is an imperial war, a neo-colonial war, an illegal, and immoral, and criminal war. there is and was no possible rationale for it which would withstand even the minutest scrutiny...
.
http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com...ry-not-
war.html
'robertson, he CRAZY!
plantsman, lowercase'
used to be called senile.
Word, watertiger. that's stunningly oblivious!
"I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't listen to the views of others," he said.
watertiger | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 10:08 am | #
i would feel sorry to live in a dull world where every graduation ceremony featured the same speaker making the same tired old speech.
Hey everybody!...(voice of Hank Azaria as Dr. Nick),
I'll be with my friend, who is oddly enough named Nick, to go see Sherrod Brown and Harry Reid at 1:00 this afternoon.
http://tinyurl.com/n45pd
Any shout outs or ideas you'd like me to pass along?...
Mo Do takes her usual saturday morning swipe, this time at McCain for this very same thing. Good reading, as usual.
"I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't listen to the views of others," he said.
They are listening...
to a broken record.
After yesterday's event, Mr. McCain told reporters he felt "fine" about his reception. "I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't listen to the views of others," he said.
watertiger
And promptly dismiss them for being young and stupid.
After yesterday's event, Mr. McCain told reporters he felt "fine" about his reception. "I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't listen to the views of others," he said.
watertiger
Oh yes, because we have NOT has to listen to the views of John McCain ad naseum the last 5 years as he consistently apologizes for Bush.
The ONLY real thing McCain ever criticizes Bush for is NOT being warlike enough.
The guy is Curtis LeMay in an antiseptic package.
Fuck me and my bad grammar!
What is this "broken record" of which you speak?
Morning, all.
I just want to say that I'm in
love with that Rohe woman.
If I was thirty-five years younger...
OT - have you seen this?
Ex-deputy secretary of state new figure in CIA leak probe
WASHINGTON - Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage has emerged as a key witness in the CIA leak probe, the Daily News has learned.
Armitage has been questioned several times, but is not expected to be indicted by the federal grand jury investigating who outed CIA spy Valerie Plame to journalists in 2003, sources said.
Armitage's testimony could hurt Vice President Cheney's indicted former chief aide Lewis (Scooter) Libby, or President Bush's political guru, Karl Rove.
Two sources familiar with the case said Armitage, Rove and Libby all had contacts with the press about Plame. Unlike Rove and Libby, Armitage appears to have tried to dissuade reporters from writing about her.
Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald recently had to sneak Armitage into a Washington courthouse to get past reporters - a sign of his value in the case, according to one source.
"Rich has been cooperating with Fitzgerald since day one," said another source, who has close ties to Armitage. "He was one of the first people to offer his testimony."
Armitage's office said he was was not available to comment.
After yesterday's bombing run over North Vietnam during which he killed hundreds of civilians, Mr. McCain, eating steak and eggs, told reporters he felt "fine" about any reception he might get from their relatives. "I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't accept the views of others," he said.
McCain dropped his bombs safely from the sky where war crimes are hard to finger and you drop 'em because you are ordered to by a higher class of war criminal.
Kerry committed his first hand, at ground level, where he could see 'em committed from his machine gun firin' hands.
Maybe this was too harsh?
...
NAH!
used to be called senile.
Ruth
__________________________
Reminds me that when a poor person act irrationally, they call him crazy. When a rich or powerful person acts nuts, they say, "He's eccentric."
And so Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. are given public platforms over and over again despite the fact that they and their ilk are certifiably insane.
it's hard to sneak richard armitage in anywhere!
it is an imperial war, a neo-colonial war, an illegal, and immoral, and criminal war. there is and was no possible rationale for it which would withstand even the minutest scrutiny...
Well, if you want to get technical...
It's funny that the war has been described in almost as many ways as the reasons for waging it.
Tony, you oughta write some speeches for McCain. Thrown a few Black Sambo gags in. That always tickles the wingers.
simels, you can love her now.
it's hard to sneak richard armitage in anywhere!
I would pay to see him and Bill Bennett sumo wrestle.
And by giving the same speech to graduates at Liberty, Columbia University and the New School, Mr. McCain appeared intent on restoring his reputation as a straight talker
Wouldn't that be a repetitious talker?
Lime Rickey | 05.20.06 - 9:58 am
i promise you McStain charged the sme fee of all three schools for the exact same speech, so he's still a thieving, cheapjack motherfucker, too...
I feel sorry for people who are so scared of hearing dissent that they resort to censorship.
Even if Rove escapes indictment, he could still be forced to resign for talking about Plame with a Time magazine reporter.
"People don't seem to want to talk about the possibility that Karl could be named an unindicted co-conspirator," a third source close to the case said. "Can an unindicted co-conspirator remain at the White House? Personally, I don't think so."
Howard Dean has called Bush on this. It's time for all of our reps to call for Rove's resignation!!
it's hard to sneak richard armitage in anywhere!
plantsman, lowercase
Maybe at a "George the Animal Steele" fan convention. (just pic)
robertson's "revenge weather predictions' have never come to fruition -- but now he has the weather channel.
They paid him to speak? I thought people did university commencement speeches for the honor of it, and for the fake degree.
Woody-
There was a great interview on NPR with Pete Seeger about Woody yesterday. Don't know if you're a real fan or you just like machines that kill fascists.
Even if Rove escapes indictment
Bite your tongue!
jurassicpork,
Thanks for the Mo-Do. Good stuff.
Johnny Angel big into recycling.
Reminds me that when a poor person act irrationally, they call him crazy. When a rich or powerful person acts nuts, they say, "He's eccentric."
And so Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. are given public platforms over and over again despite the fact that they and their ilk are certifiably insane.
Rudy
"It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independant mind, you are eccentric, he is round the twist."
-- Bernard Woolley (Derek Fowlds), Yes, Prime Minister, "One of Us"
I feel sorry for people who are so scared of hearing dissent that they resort to censorship.
watertiger |
i feel sorry for myself.
sorry, that was a complete non-sequitor
I just come by to flirt with the pretty Eschacon girls.
Attaturk,
Are you sure that picture of George "The Animal" Steele is not actually a shot of Karen Huge?
If I had my say in a college commencement speaker, I'd push to have it given by Karen Finley.
Attaturk,
Are you sure that picture of George "The Animal" Steele is not actually a shot of Karen Huge?
Cleveland Bob
If I had the stomach for it, I'd go back and double-check.
good MoDo? gotta go.
If I had my say in a college commencement speaker, I'd push to have it given by Karen Finley.
Pete Seeger.
Did Telcos Hire "Scapegoat" To Give NSA Phone Records?
I just dropped by to flirt with Vicki.
cnn has made a bold prediction in the NOLA mayoral race:
whoever gets the most votes will win.
or maybe it was nagin who said that. tv is behind me.
My commencement speaker in '81 was,(I can't believe I'm owning up to this)
...Erma Bombeck
"our passion for self-expression sometimes overwhelms our civility."
Bad First Amendment!
As for John McCain, he spoke about how the "passion for self-expression sometimes overwhelms our civility."
Per MoDo.
You see, kids; it's okay to be passionate about your self-expression. Just be civil about it.
Because, after all, no one is really listening to you express yourself (note he didn't diss political expression, but "self-expression"), because you are young and stupid.
When you are older and wiser, you will be able to form political opinions. This is the lesson McCain learned from Vietnam (I'm tellin' ya, that's exactly what he's gettin' at!)
If I had my say in a college commencement speaker, I'd push to have it given by Karen Finley.
Gore Vidal or Howard Zinn.
There was a great interview on NPR with Pete Seeger about Woody yesterday. Don't know if you're a real fan or you just like machines that kill fascists.
littoral | 05.20.06 - 10:18 am
heard it...
i'm a HUGE fan of both Woody and Pete...
my moniker is my homage to a GREAT American...
.
Excellent job Ms. Rohe!
Now how do we get Democrats in generally to start preparing to counterpunch Republican criticisms? You are very right Atrios to admire her "...pre-emptive war on his little rhetorical trick." This device can be used more often to very great effect.
don't bring that shit to the big town jesus boy.
Stephen Colbert.
heard it...
i'm a HUGE fan of both Woody and Pete...
and don't forget arlo.
'Any shout outs or ideas you'd like me to pass along?...
Cleveland Bob'
How 'bout signing onto the Geneva conventions and actually enforcing them?
Rudy, Unca Smokes, their handlers need to have leashes - or muzzles.
There was a great interview on NPR with Pete Seeger about Woody yesterday. Don't know if you're a real fan or you just like machines that kill fascists.
Link, anyone?
If I had my say in a college commencement speaker, I'd push to have it given by Karen Finley.
Attaturk
Mmmmmm...chocolate! Those were the days, my friend....
""I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't listen to the views of others," he said."
God what an asshole. Can anyone in the GOP make a point without fighting strawmen?
You see, if you disagree with John McCain, you're not listening to him. You hate free speech, or something. It can't possibly be the case that you listened to him, weighed the evidence yourself, and concluded that he's full of shit.
No...you're a shrill child who doesn't listen to the grownup voice of reason.
Condescending prick.
I'd vote for Stephen Colbert to give the commencement address.
that Karen Finley! sprung a neuron!
damn you, planstman! *shakes fist*
no fair. I was making a pot of coffee.
St. John has gotten used to being worshipped by the media.
My commencement speaker in '81 was,(I can't believe I'm owning up to this)
Vartan Gregorian. Then head of the New York Public Library.
Positively scintilla...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
damn you, planstman! *shakes fist*
I never beat you, m'dear!
and don't forget arlo.
dirk gently,maladjusted - 10:26 am
of COURSE...
i got high with Arlo once, way back in the day....
It's the complete lack of self-awareness I can't abide:
After yesterday's event, Mr. McCain told reporters he felt "fine" about his reception. "I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't listen to the views of others," he said.
watertiger | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 10:08 am | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
thats it!!!,MCain died in Nam...he is a zombie that never gazes in a mirror (lost his soul) that is all
Condescending prick.
Nim, ham hock of liberty
Yup. Pretty much.
i promise you McStain charged the sme fee of all three schools for the exact same speech, so he's still a thieving, cheapjack motherfucker, too...
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka..
he's plagiarizing himself.
i got high with Arlo once, way back in the day....
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka...
i've seen arlo in concert three times as many times as i've seen melanie.
snappy students at the new school!
i got high with Arlo once, way back in the day....
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka...
Were y'all coming into Los Angeles, bringing in a couple of keys?
And then there is Ms. Dowd. I am sorry, everytime I even see her name I remember her scathing columns on Gore. Naomi Wolf (or somebody) dressing him to be an alpha male.
There are crimes for which there simply is no forgiveness. So, the simple woman wants to make amends for her egregious actions: tough shit.
Just remember, Maureen, every hometown burial of a soldier who served has a footnote with your bloody name on it.
Bitch.
Condescending prick.
Nim, ham hock of liberty
Everyone knows they don't teach critical thinking at Columbia University.
- watertiger, Barnard/Columbia '84
Condescending prick.
He's loathsome, which will make it easy to work against him if he runs for preznit.
Hell no, John!
melanie? melanie safka?
now that chich has ovaries. good on her. reminds me a bit of Hillary Cliinton's graduation address. i hope mccain had the grace to be embarassed.
That dope McCain probably thought these students would roll over and play dead like the twits in Virginia. You're in NY now, Senator. We have functioning brains here.
Were y'all coming into Los Angeles, bringing in a couple of keys?
Uncle Smokes - 10:31 am
love that song...
my meeting w/him was sometime after THAT fact, however...
My college speaker at my satellite of the University of Minnesota was C. Peter McGrath, the Chancellor of the big college...
i.e. "Nobody gave a shit about your little podunk U. to get a fuckin' speaker, kay?"
For law school is was Geneva Overholser, then of the DSM Register, who threatened to out our names and bar exam scores.
McCain dropped his bombs safely from the sky where war crimes are hard to finger and you drop 'em because you are ordered to by a higher class of war criminal.
C'mon. There was nothing safe about flying a fighter jet over North Vietnam. It's actually one of the more dangerous things you can do in any war, at least until our air superiority became so overwhelming that nothing could shoot our planes down anymore. In fact, I'm sure you know he then got shot down and toughed out a few years at the Hanoi Hilton, actually turning down an opportunity to get released because his dad was an admiral.
He may be an asshole now, but I think that impugning his bravery in Viet Nam is sleazy, just like it was when they did it to Kerry.
McCain dropped his bombs safely from the sky where war crimes are hard to finger and you drop 'em because you are ordered to by a higher class of war criminal.
C'mon. There was nothing safe about flying a fighter jet over North Vietnam. It's actually one of the more dangerous things you can do in any war, at least until our air superiority became so overwhelming that nothing could shoot our planes down anymore. In fact, I'm sure you know he then got shot down and toughed out a few years at the Hanoi Hilton, actually turning down an opportunity to get released because his dad was an admiral.
He may be an asshole now, but I think that impugning his bravery in Viet Nam is sleazy, just like it was when they did it to Kerry.
speaking of the genius of woody guthrie -
grapes of wrath was a great book, but took me ten hours to read.
it was a tremendous movie and only took 90 minutes.
but the ballad of tom joad was better than both, and in a mere 2 minutes and change.
Link, anyone?
Karin
Think this is it
once again f-me and my editing.
John McCain is not a nice man. There are many, many stories of his rude and crude bevavior and language in private...in sharp contrast to his public face. Back during the Clinton era a truly tasteless joke he told at a republican fund raiser made the rounds. But the majority of the corporate MSM in a typical John McCain self censuring moment didn't report it. The "joke" gives a very clear look at the sick and disgusting mind that resides in the head of this jerk extraordinaire.
What was the joke?
John McCain: "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno."
Don't laugh too hard.
DWD, on the Gore columns, i am in agreement.
Although i am not a christian, i forgive her - and salute her ability to vent my spleen.
melanie? melanie safka?
plantsman, lowercase
before she went disco (she recovered).
yes, that melanie. too bad her dopiest song is the one everyone remmebers.
anyone else know "baby guitar?"
Turtle Ben shoulda wrote the speech. He coulda tossed in some of Teddy R's
old lines.
and for those who worried with me, my kid survived the floods in ME and is back in civilization, or rather, the total lack of it. I'm gone.
Blerb,
I'm not impugning his BRAVERY. I'm impugning the bombing of civilians and the dropping of napalm.
I'm not impugning Bob Kerrey's fucking bravery either.
Jeebus, I know my editing's bad, but you might want to work on your reading comprehension.
plantsman, lowercase,
Nope: never forgive, if she had helped or at least ignored, it might have made a difference. She did not.
I saw Arlo's first public performance of Alice's Restaurant. No one had any idea what was going on. Just some guy known only as the son of a famous folkie, rambling on and on, we're thinking, when is he going to sing already? About 5-10 minutes into it, the audience started to catch on.
You see, if you disagree with John McCain, you're not listening to him. You hate free speech, or something. It can't possibly be the case that you listened to him, weighed the evidence yourself, and concluded that he's full of shit.
Nim
its been too long since anyone said this. again.
I'm sorry, but the post header below this one keeps making me think of Squeeze.
yes, that melanie. too bad her dopiest song is the one everyone remmebers.
Thomas Dolby suffers from the same affliction. I call it "the novelty song that ate my career."
I put the amazing Willis Alan Ramsey on the same list... if you have to ask which song, I'm not about to remind you.
Thanks for the link, littoral.
I'm sorry, but the post header below this one keeps making me think of
Squeeze.
watertiger | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 10:37 am | #
You are one kooky broad.
OT: HPV vaccine ready to go.
Enjoy this quote:
"The HPV vaccine does not, in any circumstances, negate or substitute God's plan for sexuality, which is sexual abstinence until marriage and sexual faithfulness within marriage," said Focus on the Family spokeswoman Linda Klepacki in a statement on the organization's Web site."
God's plan for sexuality.
There's about 40 pounds of madness crammed into those 4 words.
God's plan for sexuality.
""Professor, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?"
"Yes I would, Kent."
Nope: never forgive, if she had helped or at least ignored, it might have made a difference. She did not.
Du hast recht. She must not repeat these transgressions.
I put the amazing Willis Alan Ramsey on the same list... if you have to ask which song, I'm not about to remind you.
SteveLG | 05.20.06 - 10:38 am
when o when will he release that SECOND album????
I'm sorry, but the post header below this one keeps making me think of Squeeze.
watertiger
Pulling Mullahs from a Cell?
Morning Batsies - what it do?
yes, that melanie. too bad her dopiest song is the one everyone remmebers.
anyone else know "baby guitar?"
dirk gently,maladjusted
I'm fond of "Animal Crackers."
Once I went on a diet
A carbohydrate diet ain't nice
'Cause you can't eat animal crackers.
So, I'm gonna stay a fatty for all of my life,
Hahaha hahaha.
But some people think that fatties are nice, yeah.
I'm sorry, but the post header below this one keeps making me think of
Squeeze.
watertiger | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 10:37 am | #
You are one kooky broad.
steve simels
I know I shouldn't be laughing, but I am anyway. Good job out of both of you!
""Professor, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?"
Indiana Jones and............
I put the amazing Willis Alan Ramsey on the same list... if you have to ask
which song, I'm not about to remind you.
SteveLG | 05.20.06 - 10:38 am | #
"Muskrat Love."
Poor bastard.
Thank gawd we're safe....... thanks george.........
Fifteen Saudi prisoners detained in the US Guantanamo Bay prison have arrived in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, after their release from US custody.
The men were freed after US officials said they had been given assurances by Saudi authorities that the men would not be mistreated or allowed to become involved in "terrorism".
"We were able to assure ourselves that if these people were returned to Saudi Arabia that they wouldn't be tortured and they would be treated humanely," said Sean McCormack, a state department spokesman.
"They'll be under the control of the Saudi government."
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/
...4914A85CD48.htm
"Those NorthEast Texas women
and their Cotton-candy hair"
one of the great lines of 1971...
.
For fun -- Listen to the real John Kerry -- not the one framed for you by the Rovian msm -- in this clip from Stephanie Miller's show.
He explains so much that many of us who followed closely understood then, but many more failed to understand because of all the white noise -- the opposition and, regrettably, our own.
.
From The Nation's version of the New School event:
The Senator spoke in a dull monotone, without his usual charisma or charm. He was noticeably deflated by the crowd's harsh reception towards him. Remarks such as "I supported the decision to go to war in Iraq," were met with loud boos.
I've said this before, but we discount McCain to our peril. We think he's a sleezebag, but lots of "reasonably well-informed people," the kind we were talking about last night who read the NYT and the WSJ, think he's a straight-shooting moderate. They'd love to vote for him.
"Muskrat Love."
Poor bastard.
steve simels
Ssh. Let's call it "Muskrat Candlelight," like Willis does.
Yeah, "poor bastard" except he'll never have to work another day in his life, I bet.
I better act like I'm at work.
ciao, pipistrelli.
I know I shouldn't be laughing, but I am anyway. Good job out of both of you!
Ohhhh, Riiiiiiii-cky!
I don't think John Renbourn ever did any better work than Faro Annie, either
just sayin'
.
I've said this before, but we discount McCain to our peril. We think he's a sleezebag, but lots of "reasonably well-informed people," the kind we were talking about last night who read the NYT and the WSJ, think he's a straight-shooting moderate. They'd love to vote for him.
you got a spell that could change that?
I've said this before, but we discount McCain to our peril.
NOW how much would you pay?
God's plan for sexuality.
Um, if God didn't want us to enjoy sex, he wouldn't have packed all those silly nerve endings in there.
Hey Watertiger,
Have you seen this little film?
http://tinyurl.com/zaaww
If you haven't seen Glenn Tilbrook, in concert in the past several years do yourself a favor GO SEE HIM the next time he's in NYC.
"I've said this before, but we discount McCain to our peril."
Hmmm. I don't who here is discounting him. Which is why we're beating the drum to point out that he's a mendacious, craven opportunist, and a condescending prick to boot.
Unfortunately, we don't have access to the wurlitzer that has seized on the "straight shooter" narrative like a pitbull with rigor mortis.
I've seen Arlo a number of times -- every single time simultaneously fun and transcendant -- took the lid off Finney Chapel at Oberlin with his version of Amazing Grace.
"Those NorthEast Texas women
and their Cotton-candy hair"
one of the great lines of 1971...
.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka...
Mr. Tena and I were talking about this the other night. I was trying to figure out what possessed us to go through that phase of huge hair and massive amounts of hairspray. When I was in the ninth grade, I must have gone through a can of Spray Net every other day.
Madness, I tells ya!
and that Wurlitzer has a big-ass Leslie attached to it!
is QL around?
the diary I posted earlier, about taking a stand, well, somebody has responded, stirring up quite the debate at DKos:
Get the Whiners out of the way of the Winners.
Little too pollyannaish for me to agree with, but thought I'd throw it out there, since I linked earlier to the diary it is responding to...
we made dangerous torches with matches and cans of Aqua-net!
Um, if God didn't want us to enjoy sex, he wouldn't have packed all those silly nerve endings in there.
watertiger
or made all a'yall so damn cute.
There are a couple of albums with Pete Seeger & Arlo Guthrie together in concert, which are great.
There are a couple of albums with Pete Seeger & Arlo Guthrie together in concert, which are great.
If you haven't seen Glenn Tilbrook, in concert in the past several years do yourself a favor GO SEE HIM the next time he's in NYC.
Cleveland Bob
I missed the solo show at IOTA (Arlington, VA) a few years back where he led the audience out into the parking lot for a sing-along, but saw the next couple which were nearly as wonderful (turning over his guitar to an audience member to accompany him while he roamed the audience, etc etc -- the audience guy was pretty good, by the way).
He's moved to somewhat larger venues in our area, unfortunately, but I enthusiastically second the endorsement.
NOW I gotta get to work.
NOW I gotta get to work.
SteveLG | 05.20.06 - 10:49 am | #
"every time i try to get out, the keep pulling me back IN!"
I was trying to figure out what possessed us to go through that phase of huge hair and massive amounts of hairspray.
The same Willis Alan song makes reference to "cast iron curls."
Just sayin'...
So McCain thinks ethnic cleansing is a great idea.
How to piss-off the ladies, in just a few, short paras---
http://tinyurl.com/j984u
Rate this piece of bile down now-
Um, if God didn't want us to enjoy sex, he wouldn't have packed all those silly nerve endings in there.
watertiger
As with fossils, you know the standard response: Put there to test us.
A neverending kindergarten game of godly gotcha--when I read the Apostle Paul say, "Put away childish things," I agreed and tossed that book and never looked back.
e made dangerous torches with matches and cans of Aqua-net!
plantsman, lowercase |
Yep. You could make quite a blowtorch out of a can of Spray Net and a match and we frequently did.
Um, if God didn't want us to enjoy sex, he wouldn't have packed all those silly nerve endings in there.
watertiger
or made all a'yall so damn cute.
dirk gently,maladjusted
This logic, nerve endings down there = cute allows us to make the following conclusions:
Lacking nerve endings are,
- Karen Hughes
- K-Lo
- Peggy Noonan
- Ann Coulter (I've checked a penis normally has 'em)
Okay, back to Aristotle.
ethnic cleansing sounds all swiffery; genocide, not so much.
I was trying to figure out what possessed us to go through that phase of huge hair and massive amounts of hairspray.
The same logic that told men...
Hey, Mutton-Chops, the ladies will love those!
Mmmmmm.........Mutton!
It's interesting to see how CNN reports the same story. Note the use of the verb "inject" below, as though to suggest that Rohe was being rude or inappropriate by "injecting" her beliefs in the graduation ceremony. And did McCain "inject" anything?
And note how Bob Kerrey gets the last word here, as though he put those slacker ruffians in their proper place....
---------------------
From Mary Snow
CNN
[...]
One student speaker, Jean Sara Rohe, tossed her prepared remarks to inject her own political beliefs.
[...]
"You heard and saw two acts of bravery," the former senator said after the speeches of McCain and Rohe. "There will come a time when you will have to answer the question -- will you stand -- not heckling from an audience where no bravery is required -- but will you stand and say what you believe when you know that heckling and laughter and boos will arise?"
Um, if God didn't want us to enjoy sex, he wouldn't have packed all those silly nerve endings in there.
watertiger
Had another interesting talk with a church-going cab driver the other day. He said his pastor -- a woman! -- said if god didn't expect sex to be fun he wouldn't have given us all those zones of pleasure. The caveat is who you're having the fun with . . . fidelity's the trick.
.
Hey, Mutton-Chops, the ladies will love those!
Attaturk |
That was much later. When I had big hair, it was all madras shirts and wheat jeans and the boys still had short hair - some still had crew cuts.
They didn't start growing their hair until I got to high school.
Hecate & I are in accord on this one -- people WANT to like John McCain -- go figure
Remember the buzz about him as Kerry VP pick?
& Good morning!
"Um, if God didn't want us to enjoy sex, he wouldn't have packed all those silly nerve endings in there.
watertiger"
God is omnipotent, right? If it's got a plan for sexuality, maybe it should just go ahead and make it happen.
Instead of creating a universe and a species that will not get on board with his plan. Which they have to guess at first. With the help of helpful helpers like fundie think tanks.
Is it a 3-year plan? A 5-year plan? Does God have a mission statement? Is God going to leverage its core competencies to position itself proactively to be a market leader?
Maybe Occam's Razor is helpful here.
a) God is an omnipotent being who happens to get very cross when other creatures that God created behave the way they were created to behave. And fundie think tanks have to explain God's plan to the rest of us, based on their interpretation of a book written by other humans. Because God needs them for his PR.
b) Fundie think tanks are full of people who don't like other people having sex except on terms they feel comfortable with.
And did McCain "inject" anything?
I think those are questions only he and Bush can answer.
I've said this before, but we discount McCain to our peril."
Hmmm. I don't who here is discounting him. Which is why we're beating the drum to point out that he's a mendacious, craven opportunist, and a condescending prick to boot.
Unfortunately, we don't have access to the wurlitzer that has seized on the "straight shooter" narrative like a pitbull with rigor mortis.
Nim, ham hock of liberty | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 10:45 am | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
isnt it time to post the OTHER kiss?
but where is it?
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-cont...6/03/
bushmc.jpg
yes, that melanie. too bad her dopiest song is the one everyone remmebers.
i LOVE melanie...i was raised on her carnegie hall album.
a few years ago she released an "unplugged" album & she explained what she felt was the MEANINGFUL part of "brand new key":
i ride my bike
i rollerskate
dont drive no car
dont go very fast but i go pretty far
for somebody who dont drive
ive been all around the world
some people say
ive dont all right "for a girl"
lots of people want a daddy. wastrel sons bring that out in people.
They didn't start growing their hair until I got to high school.
Tena
Hey, I didn't start growing hair until I got to high school either.
But I've said to much.
Hecate & I are in accord on this one -- people WANT to like John McCain -- go figure
Remember the buzz about him as Kerry VP pick?
I agree and I don't know why that is. He's really not likable - I've never liked him.
*sigh*
Unfortunately, we don't have access to the wurlitzer that has seized on the "straight shooter" narrative like a pitbull with rigor mortis.
Love it!
too much, too much, not "to" much.
Okay, I've got to go before I ruin another joke with bad grammar. Later all.
Aw, crap. Stanley Kunitz died? How the hell did I miss that?
meme him as craven buttkisser, flip-flopper, and less likeable. start now.
meme him as craven buttkisser, flip-flopper, and less likeable. start now.
plantsman, lowercase
works for me; but I wish we could get the MSM to cooperate.
If McStain is 'elected', i shall liquidate all my assets and leave this fucking country for fucking ever.
if the people of this country are stupid enough to allow that travesty to occur--by either legitemate or criminal means--i cannot live among them...
you think bush is dreadful?
jeeeeezis fucking christ!
Thanks for the bath.
I was feeling scungy.
works for me; but I wish we could get the MSM to cooperate.
ya gotta start somewhere. here is good.
"According to Foster, each single drink hits a woman like a double. A woman's body contains less water and more fatty tissue—which increases alcohol absorption—compared to a male body. "
isn't foster australian for "beer?"
SAY!
I had mutton chops (& a handle bar mustache) when I first arrived at the monastery (I guess you can figure out how long I've been here...)
T-SHIRTS PLEASE
http://www.iraqtimeline.com/
grap...ainbushcake.jpg
" people WANT to like John McCain"
He looks like a good guy. Suffers a disability, ex-pow, fighter jock and so on. His surface credentials make him palatable. Since he is wishy washy about his support for various ideas, frequently taking an adverse stance but cloaking it with conciliatory terms, the full impact gets lost.
I would have voted for him in the past, but information as developed with emphasis on blogs, destroyed that view point. To stop Mccain, you have to rip his mask off, not simply poke at him with pictures of him hugging Bush and the like.
I was feeling scungy.
now there's a surprise.
she explained what she felt was the MEANINGFUL part of "brand new key":
i thought it was the bit about wanting his key being slipped into her skate - and having the balls to say so
i LOVE the carnegie hall album. one of my all time favorites.
um, kissing bush.
Tena --
The secret is to get the MSM to turn on McCain --- wish I knew the answer
BTW -- I sent you a link about a troubling legal precedent (IMHO) -- if courtsd are saying that Bush can imprison any innocent foreigner & not be held accountable for national security reasons, what protects the citizenry?
"According to Foster, each single drink hits a woman like a double. A woman's body contains less water and more fatty tissue—which increases alcohol absorption—compared to a male body. "
Said this yesterday - they've been pushing this hard ever since they found out that the number of women smokers had gone up. Now us pre- and inter-pregnant people must always behave as though we were pregnant. Therefore, they tell us that everything fun is twice as bad for us as it is for men.
And they can get fucked. I don't care. If men are left alone to go to hell in their own ways, then I want the same damn privilege.
right on, tena. i wear my gin blossoms as badges of honor.
And they can get fucked.
probably not until they get their dates good and drunk.
Prior - I will look for the email.
I also said yesterday that they have been geniuses at exploiting legal loopholes and limbos. They have been. I'm impressed, frankly.
They have found just about every loophole and legal limbo that exists in our system.
I had mutton chops (& a handle bar mustache) when I first arrived at the monastery (I guess you can figure out how long I've been here...)
Prior Aelred
I'm picturing Asimov meets Dali.
people are zany 'round here this morning!
Falseballs has given McCain his stamp of approval: RAPTURE READY!
Is Simels still here?
And they can get fucked. I don't care. If men are left alone to go to hell in their own ways, then I want the same damn privilege.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:04 am | #
********************************
YEEHA!
I loved Melanie
I even listened to some songs
EkCenTriK -- M'Kay -- HOW do we do that? I think the MSM is the problem (well, about a LOT of things) -- if they would turn on him -- but why should they -- I am baffled
But if it were McCain v Hillery, it is McCain in a landslide of '72 proportions!
..........Johnny Angel, how i love him
and i pray someday that he'll love me..............
I hate McCain's guts, but I don't think he'd be worse than Chimpy.
McCain at least has a brain.
No one could possibly be as bad as Commander CooCoo Bananas - he is quite simply The Worst President Ever.
Pat, kin I have your gold and diamond mines after you're kicked upstairs?
Tena --
Look at it this way, you can get drunk at halfd the price!
Uncle Smokes -- more like the Earl of Caridagan (I'll have to look for a pic online)
Blerb,
I'm not impugning his BRAVERY... you might want to work on your reading comprehension.
Look, I don't want to spend my morning defending John McCain of all people, but there is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. Your whole comment was basically snark anyway, so I don't suppose there was really much point in disputing it. It just strikes me as unfair that you described what McCain did as "safe". He nearly got killed half a dozen times during the Vietnam war, before he even became a POW. Anyway, whatever. It's not really that important....
But if it were McCain v Hillery, it is McCain in a landslide of '72 proportions!
Prior Aelred
Yeah, but even then I'd bet on a paranoid burglary of DNC headquarters just to make sure.
Watertiger's gem of a quote revealing McCain's utter lack of self-awareness is worth reading.
They have found just about every loophole and legal limbo that exists in our system.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:06 am | #
********************************
this was always the path...great legal minds to fool the rubes, then put chimpy out front and center to look all folksy and kinda dumb
I loved Melanie
I even listened to some songs
thanks to the lovely mrs gently (and the fact music videos did not yet exist) i heard her long before i ever saw her.
but i know what you mean. and in person she is even more lovely. we saw her at a coffee house in sayerville nj once, which was the perfect venue. she really shone in such an intimate setting, completely owned the room.
Uncle Smokes -- more like the Earl of Caridagan (I'll have to look for a pic online)
Prior Aelred
Be still my beating heart!
I want to know when they're going to amend the constitution to make the Right of the Fetus to be Healthy a constitutional right.
That's what this crap about women is all about. We're just vessels.
all folksy and kinda dumb
/kinda?
Uncle Smokes -- more like the Earl of Caridagan (I'll have to look for a pic online)
Prior Aelred
Be still my beating heart!
Uncle Smokes
Is that what "Muskrat Love" was about?
this was always the path...great legal minds to fool the rubes, then put chimpy out front and center to look all folksy and kinda dumb
sittenpretty
Must have been, because that's just exactly what they've done.
I wouldn't get so dirty but jack keeps putting his hands down here.
That's what this crap about women is all about. We're just vessels.
y'know, there's this movie out now, the Da........
That's what this crap about women is all about. We're just vessels.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:12 am | #******************
*************************
like princess Di...just brood mares
It just strikes me as unfair that you described what McCain did as "safe". He nearly got killed half a dozen times during the Vietnam war, before he even became a POW. Anyway, whatever. It's not really that important....
I have to agree that it isn't fair to McCain to discount what he went through in Vietnam. You can't take that from McCain - he went through hell and that's a fact.
I hate him, but you can't ignore what he went through and say it doesn't matter.
One of my favorite lines from Blackadder II comes from Tom Baker as Captain Redbeard Rum, saying he had "a beard you could lose a badger in."
I hate McCain's guts, but I don't think he'd be worse than Chimpy.
McCain at least has a brain.
Hmm. It hink the beauty of Chimpy's brainlessness is that it has caused him to fail to fully implement his fascist agenda, because nobody wants to go goose-stepping along behind a total nincompoop. In McCain's case, for the reasons you stated, I think that mitigating mechanism would not be operative, and that kind of scares me.....
brood mare and clothes horse.
I also said yesterday that they have been geniuses at exploiting legal loopholes and limbos. They have been. I'm impressed, frankly.
They have found just about every loophole and legal limbo that exists in our system.
We still have a legal system?
You're stuck in a pre-9/11 mindframe, Tena. Islamofascist!
Tena --
Look at it this way, you can get drunk at half the price!
diane, valerie, sue, rena, linda - just some of the names of women i know who kept up with my drinking volumes just fine, thanks. (which as you probably know is no mean feat).
karen could drink me (or you or anyone else) under a table.
all generalizations are wrong.
i got high with Arlo once, way back in the day....
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka... - 10:28 am
Were chickens flyin' everywhere 'round the plane? 
Prior
If I knew, I guess I would be doing something bold and exciting in the land of politics.
But a small story. I have a fellow dem. liberal type in my office. We speak of many things, but McCain has not been much of a topic. In the past, she was very favorable towards McCain. This person does not spend the hours each day reading blogs or newspapers that I do. Her focus is on specific issues normally. We did discuss Mccain again recently. I was very surprised that she was negative about McCain and for all the reasons people discuss here. Somehow, what he is has trickled down into the populace. We did not get to finish the conversation, but I am going to follow up on where she developed her opinion. The news is showing up somewhere.
Were chickens flyin' everywhere 'round the plane?
snakes.
One of my favorite lines from Blackadder II comes from Tom Baker as Captain Redbeard Rum, saying he had "a beard you could lose a badger in."
Uncle Smokes makes a Laaaaaaady's TV reference!
Must have been, because that's just exactly what they've done.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:13 am | #
*********************************
they can steal more with the folksy style
the rubes are a little stirred over $3 dollar gas though
He nearly got killed half a dozen times during the Vietnam war
so did dubya.
then his daddy got him a chauffer.
karen could drink me (or you or anyone else) under a table.
That the one with the wooden leg and the parrot on her shoulder?
Saw McCain at a rally in Balboa Park in San Diego in 2000. Lackluster candidate, really dull and ohsovery careful. And then the 500 or so folks gathered - really scary no-nothings who figured waving a flag was the height of patriotism. He's poison!
McCain is typical of Repukes:
Different day, same old shit.
McCain, the thinking ape's candidate.
Hmm. It hink the beauty of Chimpy's brainlessness is that it has caused him to fail to fully implement his fascist agenda, because nobody wants to go goose-stepping along behind a total nincompoop. In McCain's case, for the reasons you stated, I think that mitigating mechanism would not be operative, and that kind of scares me.....
blerb
That's a valid point, but it's hard for me to imagine anyone else pushing fascism as hard as Chimpy has. I can't predict what McCain would do, and he does scare me. But I still say he is not the same kind of politician that Bush is.
I'd crawl on my hands and knees to have Eisenhower back. I'd prefer Nixon to Bush, so it's not really possible for me to say McCain would be worse. No one could possibly be worse than Bush, unless the person just jerked the constitution altogether and I can't see McCain doing it.
That the one with the wooden leg and the parrot on her shoulder?
Lime Rickey | 05.20.06 - 11:18 am | #
no, a wooden parrot and a ...
i've said too much.
by 2008, the constitution could well be jerked.
But i've said too much.
Uncle Smokes --
I was thinking more like this
1975
Why watertiger will never go hungry as long as her desk holds up.
Why watertiger will never go hungry as long as her desk holds up.
" "I feel sorry for people living in a dull world where they can't listen to the views of others," he said."
sanctimonious prick. foad.
brood mare and clothes horse.
plantsman, lowercase | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:16 am | #
****************************
ooya bitch forgot her place
Oh god, have I got an embarassing
Melanie story.
One Saturday afternoon -- mid 80s,
if I recall -- I was having drinks
with friends at a then fashionable
NYC joint. One of the women at the
table (whose name was Paula) got up to go to the ladies
room, and when she came back -- some
twenty minutes later -- she was with
this sort of suburban housewife-looking
gal in her early 40s.
Paula: "Hey everybody, this is my
new friend Melanie. I met her in
the ladies room."
Me: (being snarky) "Melanie? Damn,
I loved your song 'Brand New Chastity
Belt.'"
Then I realized -- ohmigod, it actually
was THE real Melanie.
I wanted to crawl under a rock.
by 2008, the constitution could well be jerked.
But i've said too much.
plantsman, lowercase
Like you really know?
Anything can happen at any time, but I don't think this is right.
Uncle Smokes makes a Laaaaaaady's TV reference!
Thers
"Aaah! You have a woman's homepage, my lord! I wager those HTML musings have never been used to chew through the side of a ship, to escape the dreadful spindly killer fish."
[Okay...I'll stop...nothing more tedious to others than two British comedy fans geeking out.]
EkCenTriK @ 11:16 am
This is encouraging!
More stories like this, please!
You can't take that from McCain - he went through hell and that's a fact.
I hate him, but you can't ignore what he went through and say it doesn't matter.
Tena |
He went through hell, yes...but he has no problem with another generation being fucked up in an illegal war.
In that he's worse than Chimpy because he knows what it's like to have been there.
Good morning, all. Is the McCain lovefest in full swing?
In good news, Chinese ships report rescuing 97 Vietnamese fishermen who were missing in the middle of Typhoon Chanchu. Also recover 18 other bodies.
Oh... and the Saturday night movie on TV is The Perfect Storm.
Anything can happen at any time, but I don't think this is right.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:23 am | #
"right's got nothing to do with it."
-- clint eastwood to gene hackman, "unforgiven"
Why watertiger will never go hungry as long as her desk holds up.
Hecate, Grammar Fag
That is frustrating.
Like you really know?
of course not. tasteless sexu/political snark.
nice post, hecate.
that he's worse than Chimpy because he knows what it's like to have been there.
Terry C, Politikal Girl | 05.20.06 - 11:24 am | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
word
McCain is also typical of his party in that he is right and all who oppose him are wrong.
Off to church -- later bats!
AEL -- who once looked like a young Earl of Cardigan but no more resembles Rasputin on a bad day -- maybe Gandalf is in my future)
Cogito ergo sum Episcopalian
We did discuss Mccain again recently. I was very surprised that she was negative about McCain and for all the reasons people discuss here.
I don't really think McCain will be such a strong candidate either. He's all old, hobbled, and decrepit, and Americans like to see somebody with vigor. I think his Janet Reno joke and his "gook" comments are also going to hurt him a lot. ANd then there's the fact that he has repeatedly called for a larger troop commitment in Iraq. I don't think the country is in the mood for that now. Also, almost all of his political appeal was built on posturing himself a a maverick with integrity. With his numerous recent public fellations of Little Boots, he has basically self-immolated that image.
So I think it would be pretty easy for even Hillary (oy!) to tar him as old, dangerously bellicose, out of touch with the people, racist, and disingenuous.
That's a valid point, but it's hard for me to imagine anyone else pushing
fascism as hard as Chimpy has. I can't predict what McCain would do, and he
does scare me. But I still say he is not the same kind of politician that Bush is.
Tena --
See, this is why I believe McCain
hasn't got a chance to get the nod as
the GOP candidate in 08. The fascist
powers that be who run the Republican
Party won't tolerate a nominee who
isn't a compliant Chauncy Gardiner
type moron they can install as a
George Bush-like figurehead.
Hence: George Allen will be the
nominee. IMHO.
[Okay...I'll stop...nothing more tedious to others than two British comedy fans geeking out.]
Uncle Smokes
No, it isn't.
Yes, it is.
Oh, wait - is this the five minute argument or the whole half hour?
deserve's got nothing to do with it.
I swear I didn't double post. Haloscan just hates me.
Oh... and the Saturday night movie on TV is The Perfect Storm.
Hurricane season is starting soon. Do you know where your levees are?
The fascist
powers that be who run the Republican
Party won't tolerate a nominee who
isn't a compliant Chauncy Gardiner
type moron they can install as a
George Bush-like figurehead
Awesome - I hope you're right.
deserve's got nothing to do with it.
Johnny Drama |
i was afrain i'd gotten that wrong, but it fit so well.
"look through my mail slot, and if you can see my........"
He went through hell, yes...but he has no problem with another generation being fucked up in an illegal war.
Hey, pick on the man as he is now all you want. I think he's loathsome.
"think his Janet Reno joke and his "gook" comments are also going to hurt him a lot."
I've always loved how these fascist fucks had so much to say about Janet Reno.
Calling her "Butch", etc.
Because we know the right is so full of great beauties like Karen Hughes and Mann Coulter.
mccain: everyone wants him to be a winner, but no one really wants him to win.
Why watertiger will never go hungry as long as her desk holds up.
Hecate, Grammar Fag
Saturday to do:
1. Buy wood filler
2. Buy scraper
3. Recharge sander
So I think it would be pretty easy for even Hillary (oy!) to tar him as old, dangerously bellicose, out of touch with the people, racist, and disingenuous.
blerb | 05.20.06 - 11:26 am | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
doesnt he chanel the dreaded GOLDWATER?
Hence: George Allen will be the
nominee. IMHO.
The one I ph33r the most is Giuliani.
goldwater was kryptonite.
"With his numerous recent public fellations of Little Boots, he has basically self-immolated that image."
You have a point. That applies to both parties. My take is that smart Republicans are beginning to distance themselves from Bush. Plastering yourself to him in not in your best interest if you want to be the next Republican president.
Oh, wait - is this the five minute argument or the whole half hour?
Terry C, Politikal Girl
I was going to break my promise and launch into "getting hit on the head lessons," but instead I'll bid y'all goodbye for now--take care of your good selves.
[BONK! Waaaaah!]
doesnt he chanel the dreaded GOLDWATER?
Precisely.
Yep. You could make quite a blowtorch out of a can of Spray Net and a match and we frequently did. | Tena - 10:50 am
I found out about this little trick when I was about 10, and shortly thereafter obtained an experimental can from my mom's vanity, and snuck down the back stairs to the basement to conduct extensive testing. I already had the matches.
I had a glorious time in our little laundry room by the back door, one of those doors with four panes of frosted or patterned glass that one can't clearly see through.
About fifteen minutes later my parents came charging down the stairs and caught me red-handed. Turns out that a neighbor in the next street looked out her back door, saw what appeared to be a raging fire in our laundry room, and rushed over to tell my parents.
I wasn't in "flame on" mode when discovered, but the scorch rings on the wall spoke for themselves, even with my parents' limited forensic skills.
I guess I'm glad she didn't just call the fire department.
the Republican
Party won't tolerate a nominee who
isn't a compliant Chauncy Gardiner
type moron
hey! you leave chauncy ALONE!
bush ain't worthy to loosen his sandles.
McCain is going to defend the country...
.......when he didn't have to stones to defend his own family from Rove's attacks.
What kind of man is he?
Chimpy is doing a heckuva job in fighting off those pesky mine safety regulations.
George Allen has a fatal flaw. He looks like a demented clown.
Blerb
I do not even think Giuliani is a player anymore.
And Allen would be the perfect Republican candidate. Just perfect.
My take is that smart Republicans are beginning to distance themselves from Bush.
There's such a thing as a smart Repugnican?
1. Buy wood filler
2. Buy scraper
3. Recharge sander
For desk or forehead?
The wingers ain't too happy with McCain. Of course, the little screws in their heads can be readjusted.
Fucking haloscan is eating comments.
TerryC - I agree that from the standpoint of McCain's knowing what combat is like, he is far worse about sending people to a war of choice - he definitely knows better or did at one time. I agree completely.
All the fuck I'm saying, people, is that McCain is a vet, he was a POW and you cannot take that from him. It happened and I think you have to respect it. You don't have to necessarily respect him - but you do have to have some feeling for what he went through. It doesn't entitle him to anything - except respect for his service.
blerb, good points at 11:26.
Plus, he's not a favorite with the winger evangelicals.
McCain is also typical of his party in that he is right and all who oppose him are wrong.
Isn't America sick of this one-sided attitude from those in power?
Isn't that what's really angered most of us? The lack of debate, the total control by one-party? The refusal to listen to us, the people?
This dictatorship by which we're ruled?
We want representative government.
"There's such a thing as a smart Repugnican?
Terry C"
Yes, don't go getting all petty now
Now, that doesn't make them good people that I would invite over for dinner however.
I do not even think Giuliani is a player anymore.
Why not? Did his prostate cancer come back?
George Allen has a fatal flaw. He looks like a demented clown.
plantsman, lowercase | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:31 am | #
As opposed to Bush?
What kind of man is he?
Terry C, Politikal Girl |
Although I laugh and I act like a clown
Beneath this mask I am wearing a frown
My tears are falling like rain from the sky
Is it for rove or myself that I cry
I'm a loser
And I lost something that's dear to me
I'm a loser
And I'm not what I appear to be
(apologies to y'all know who)
For desk or forehead?
Wood filler for desk.
Sander for forehead.
Hey, how's everyone doing up there, matey?
Hope springs eternal
Why not? Did his prostate cancer come back?
he's stumping for ralph reed, earning fundy creds.
All the fuck I'm saying, people, is that McCain is a vet, he was a POW and you cannot take that from him. It happened and I think you have to respect it. You don't have to necessarily respect him - but you do have to have some feeling for what he went through. It doesn't entitle him to anything - except respect for his service.
Tena
I'm only quoting a fellow Atriot from yesterday but "if he had been a better pilot then, no one today would know who he is."
No surprise to me that most, if not all, of the Iraq vets running for office are Democrats.
It doesn't entitle him to anything - except respect for his service.
And just where was his respect and the respect of other republicans when Kerry's service in Vietnam was attacked?
It seems to be that if he wants to be treated with respect, then he must respect others.
George Allen has a fatal flaw. He looks like a demented clown.
plantsman, lowercase | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:31 am | #
same for so many of them...abu gonzales?
cs - Uhm, Thanks for the link to the Kerry interview. Makes me want to cry all over again over what could have been.
She's not a kid, she's an adult.
I beg to differ, McCain was never in "combat". He dropped bombs from way up in the sky, then he was shot down and captured.
Speaking of honoring those who are war veterans, looks like we're going to do a fine job of it:
The nightmare of Iraq was bad enough for Vanessa Gamboa. Unprepared for combat beyond her basic training, the supply specialist soon found herself in a firefight, commanding a handful of clerks.
"They promoted me to sergeant. I knew my job but I didn't know anything about combat. So I'm responsible for all these people and I don't know what to tell them but to duck," Gamboa said.
The battle, on a supply delivery run, ended without casualties, and it did little to steel Gamboa for what awaited her back home in Brooklyn.
When the single mother was discharged in April, after her second tour in Iraq, she was 24 and had little money and no place to live. She slept in her son's day-care center.
As opposed to Bush?
John Wayne Gacy demented clown.
Oh, and Tena:
The right have showed NO respect for John Kerry.
But that's because Kerry came back and opposed the war while McCain goes around and calls the people whose land we invaded "gooks."
Is Simels still here? | Kim Wilde - 11:07 am
Leave Simels alone, you vicious, heartless bitch!
He's through with you, understand? Through! What part of "through" don't you understand? 
This dictatorship by which we're ruled?
We want representative government.
pie
Amen.
In '04 there were a number of people here on the threads pushing the idea of McCain as a VP candidate for us. I fought that up one side and down the other. I didn't want to see his name again ever. I still feel that way. I hate the son of a bitch.
Honor Tammy Duckworth.
I agree Allen is more the sort of compliant buffoon the corporatists prefer. And the fundies will eat his shit up. Looking like a clown is no problem -- Bush looks like a chimp and they still put him in power. Neither Hitler nor Mussolini (bite me, Godwin) were gorgeous guys, either.
I beg to differ, McCain was never in "combat". He dropped bombs from way up in the sky, then he was shot down and captured.
Karin
True. Dropped them on women and children.
he's stumping for ralph reed, earning fundy creds.
plantsman, lowercase
yes, but he isn't anti-choice enough and he cheated on then divorced his wife. and he's from NEW YAWK CITY!
fucking liberal elitist.
Blerb
1. I do not think he has the presence to impress people 24/7 into voting for him. His 9/11 accomplished have drifted away.
2. Unless they are from up east or pay attention to him specifically, most folks in the prime Republican territories likely do not have a clue as to who he is.
3. His name is hard to remember how to spell right.
4. The Democrats only have to play that gushing rave that he did for Bush at the 2004 convention to totally destroy him.
abu gonzales?
sittenpretty |
He sets my gaydar off.
yes, but he isn't anti-choice enough and he cheated on then divorced his wife. and he's from NEW YAWK CITY!
and a cross-dressing friend of homos to boot!
In '04 there were a number of people here on the threads pushing the idea of McCain as a VP candidate for us. I fought that up one side and down the other.
True. Wasn't that the most fucked up shit? Drove me nuts!
Let's not confuse refusing to stoop to impugning McCain's service in Vietnam with actually defending him as a politician or even as a human being now. You can do one without doing the other.
All the fuck I'm saying, people, is that McCain is a vet, he was a POW and you cannot take that from him. It happened and I think you have to respect it. You don't have to necessarily respect him - but you do have to have some feeling for what he went through. It doesn't entitle him to anything - except respect for his service.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:32 am | #
*******************************
i dont respect him
1 cause he learned nothing from it
2 because he USES his hero-hood for nefarious purpose
Is Simels still here? | Kim Wilde - 11:07 am
Leave Simels alone, you vicious, heartless bitch!
He's through with you, understand? Through! What part of "through" don't you understand?
But, but, but.... she's a kid! In America! Where everybody lives on a music-go-round!
5. Rudy the Lisp is TOO comfortable in women's clothing.
picantee.
How many of our Democratic Iraq vet candidates killed Iraqis, I wonder?
We can't go down that road - that all the military are war criminals - that isn't going to work and it isn't fair. They are sent to do these things by the people in charge - let's concentrate on them.
Why watertiger will never go hungry as long as her desk holds up.
Hecate, Grammar Fag - 11:22 am
Goddess, i think that the mainstream Dems think they cannot afford to seem to accept or validate the 'stolen election' meme without themselves being subject to the same accusations when (in the unlikely event) they are again 'elected' to positions of power.
because you know, for all the reticence the establishment Dems have about broaching the subject, the Pukes will have no such scruples...
.
Off to run errands. Later, Bats!
Sorry, that was me at 11:39.
(It doesn't ask "You know what your name is, right?" anymore.)
The more people se of Giuliani, the less they'll like him. He does not work and play well with others.
i dont respect him
1 cause he learned nothing from it
2 because he USES his hero-hood for nefarious purpose
sittenpretty
And he's Bush's bitch, domestic.
Blair's Bush's international bitch.
He sets my gaydar off.
Terry C, Politikal Girl | 05.20.06 - 11:38 am | #
******************************
his winky musta hurt after viewing the prisonporn...such a sweet voice though
abu gonzales?
sittenpretty |
He sets my gaydar off.
Terry C, Politikal Girl
and too brown to be at the top. someone has to keep an eye on him.
i dont respect him
1 cause he learned nothing from it
2 because he USES his hero-hood for nefarious purpose
sittenpretty
YES!!! i don't respect anyone's vietnam service who did not come back and speak the truth.
How are things today, NYMary?
Tena, agreed. Duckworth had an RPG explode in her lap, necessitating the amputation of both legs, and managed to land the chopper anyway. She's someone to focus on.
When the single mother was discharged in April, after her second tour in Iraq, she was 24 and had little money and no place to live. She slept in her son's day-care center.
rorschach
Well, that's what that slut gets for being a single mother and trying to do things for herself.
Instead of having some man take care of her.........like the bible says it should be.
/wingnut fundie idiot
because you know, for all the reticence the establishment Dems have about broaching the subject, the Pukes will have no such scruples...
That may well be true. I can't understand what the reluctance is otherwise. It's been a bitter disappointment to me that the Democratic Party has been silent on this. Our elections are being manipulated as if we lived in Iran. The Democrats ought to stand up for the integrity of our elections and I can't see any reason for them not to - one would think that would be a winner. So maybe this is the reason, Woody. I have no idea what the fucking problem is there.
pie,
We're good, thanks. I swear it's been 25 years since I was in any part of a hospital except an emergency room or a maternity ward.
He sets my gaydar off.
Terry C, Politikal Girl | 05.20.06 - 11:38 am | #
******************************
his winky musta hurt after viewing the prisonporn...such a sweet voice though
sittenpretty
That voice of his is what has my daughter convinced that he's yet another of the Repukes' self-hating closet cases.
She swears Alan Keyes is, too!
Duckworth had an RPG explode in her lap, necessitating the amputation of both legs, and managed to land the chopper anyway. She's someone to focus on.
like that fella who jumped on a grenade and lost both legs and one arm to protect his fellow soldiers? seems like someone concentrated on him pretty good, too.
"I beg to differ, McCain was never in "combat". He dropped bombs from way up in the sky, then he was shot down and captured.
Karin "
This is why people give us a hard time. The man was shot down. That implies "Combat". Everytime he flew a mission, he had the potential of or was under fire. The act of flying an aircraft in combat conditions is not a drive to the corner store. The landings he made were not sane little touch downs but full slams to the deck. He may not have been in the mud but his life hung on the line every single time.
You do not like the man, fine, but he did his service with honors. What time, age and greed may have done afterwards cannot diminish that he did his duty.
It is also why a person like McCain or Cunningham are so poignant when they walk off the edge of a sane and responsible life.
I never said you had to respect McCain the man. But I do think it's letting ideology get the upper hand to insist that McCain's service is not worthy of respect.
That just bothers me - it instinctively seems wrong to me after he spent all those years in a goddamned bamboo cage.
Blerb
1. I do not think he has the presence to impress people 24/7 into voting for him. His 9/11 accomplished have drifted away...
EkCenTriK
Well, I hope you and NY Mary are right. I think that his relatively moderate stance, northeastern provenance, 9/11 creds, decent appearance, and record of cleanng up NYC all work in his favor as a Repug candidate. But I guess that he's pretty alien to the knuckle-dragging base, so perhaps he could never really get off the ground.
YES!!! i don't respect anyone's vietnam service who did not come back and speak the truth.
He has no special knowledge about what went on, on the ground in Vietnam, probably less the average person who was in the US watching TV and reading the paper. He was a POW, completely cut off from the news during all those years.
I agree Allen is more the sort of compliant buffoon the corporatists prefer. And the fundies will eat his shit up.
I can hear Tweety now: "Allen's the kinda guy you'd like to have a beer with. And his daddy coached the 'Skins, y'know."
YES!!! i don't respect anyone's vietnam service who did not come back and speak the truth.
dirk gently,maladjusted | 05.20.06 - 11:42 am | #
***************************
thats why i loves me some WGG
I swear it's been 25 years since I was in any part of a hospital except an emergency room or a maternity ward.
Certainly not one of my favorite places.
Try to stay away from one for a while, hear?
Very glad to hear things are better.
That just bothers me - it instinctively seems wrong to me after he spent all those years in a goddamned bamboo cage.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:45 am | #
which he now knows (thanks to macnamara) was for nothing. you'd think he'd realize that and relate it to what is happening now.
"How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do"
PS: I'm surprised no one else posted this-- either it's just too On-Topic, or that damn dith has put everyone off Dylan quotes.
For a woman like Duckworth to become a viable
dem candidate in a "safe" GOP district is rather impressive, too.
I'd like to do this down in Crawford at the PIG farm:
http://www.comcast.net/news/
stra...qh=itn_neighbor
giving the presidency to someone based on the fact he was a pow in a cage seems wrong. compelling narrative, but still.
which he now knows (thanks to macnamara) was for nothing. you'd think he'd realize that and relate it to what is happening now.
dirk gently,maladjusted | 05.20.06 - 11:47 am | #
One of the hallmarks of the present-day Republican: Every single event is discrete and utterly unrelated to any other event.
Everything is an aberration. There are no patterns, no similarities.
Abu Ghraib? Katrina? Singular, inexplicable events.
That just bothers me - it instinctively seems wrong to me after he spent all those years in a goddamned bamboo cage.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:45 am | #
which he now knows (thanks to macnamara) was for nothing. you'd think he'd realize that and relate it to what is happening now.
dirk gently,maladjusted
He just doesn't get it.
Sees nothing wrong with another senseless war, even after what he went through.
McCain, like Spester, likes to wrin his hands in public. But he does what he's told in the end.
No one focused on this, but that was one of the nastiest things Colbert said in my opinion. McCain might eat salad with a spoon, but he won't take a "maverick" path when it matters.
And I don't denigrate his military service, but, in itself, it's no qualification for office.
Flying in enemy territory is absolutely combat. SAMs kill just as surely as a bullet.
That just bothers me - it instinctively seems wrong to me after he spent all those years in a goddamned bamboo cage.
Tena | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:45 am | #
******************************
counselor,,,,,,,please answer this
from all thatHORRIBLE greif for 7 years
what did he learn from it 
And I don't denigrate his military service, but, in itself, it's no qualification for office.
NYMary
That's what I've always said.
He was a POW, but how does that qualify you for public office?
I'm not saying I don't respect what McCain suffered as a POW. But he never understood what America went through during those years he was locked up, the years when Americans turned against the Vietnam war. It was like he was in a time warp.
He was a POW, completely cut off from the news during all those years.
Karin |
and has learned nothing since? i have no idea what his views were at the time, he may very well have thought he was defending america from the yellow menace, and no doubt protected his comrades in arms as best he could under interrogation.
but there have been more years since than he spent there and he is COMPLICATE in putting others - americans and iraqis alike - through the same pointless hell for the sake of lying, crimanal, murderous self-important thugs. he should know better. if his service is to mean anything, it has to mean it in the light of the truth.
or maybe that's just me.
BTW, Terry (I'm OT again, natch), I posted this last night, but I think you'd left by then. Please check it out and respond, if it's not a bother. 
from all thatHORRIBLE greif for 7 years
what did he learn from it
sittenpretty
Not a fucking thing.
And what really kills me is his campaigning for Bush.
What was Chimpy doing those 7 years?
Living it up on DaDa's $$$!
Tweety on Allen: Her's a good-looking guy! Women love him! And he's not too smart!
He was a POW, but how does that qualify you for public office
To many it's a pariotism test.
demented clown.
grief too
Terry, speaking of Cardinal Spellman-- did you ever catch Jimmy Breslin's columns about the Catholic Church when he was writing regularly for Newsday?
Because Breslin is a man who cuts exactly zero slack for self-satisfied middle-manager prelates; his terse narrative is like a hacksaw slicing through pretense and hypocrisy. And he's not shy about expressing the considerable depth and range of his righteous scorn.
I guarantee you'd appreciate him-- he's a man after your own heart. Maybe there's an archive somewhere, I haven't checked.
Little Brøther | 05.19.06 - 10:42 pm |
I have and read Jimmy Breslin's book, "The Church That Forgot Christ."
Love Breslin - he always saw Rudy the Lisp for the self-promoting phoney mother fucker that he is!
Hey, I don't see anybody here actually supporting his candidacy.
It's not McStain's war record to which i object...
it's his post-war record which troubles me. that and his Arizona mob connections (ask GWPDA next time she's on)...
.
That's "COMPLICIT," dirk.
From your friendly neighborhood English prof.
Just passing through today, but I have to second Tena and blerb on the whole hate-McCain-but-leave-his-service-out-of-it-
thing.
My father got drafted into Vietnam out of law school. He and my mother both opposed the war -- marches, sit-ins, you name it. They seriously considered heading to Canada, but he decided he couldn't do it. His cousin, with whom he was very close and who also opposed the war, had also been drafted, and was killed after just a few days in country. My father couldn't justify running from something that his cousin hadn't run from.
He wound up enlisting with the Marines because that was the only unit that would let him take his final exams before heading off to training. (If he didn't take his exams, his whole first year of law school wouldn't count.) He decided to try for every advanced training program he could get, partly in hopes that the war might end before he actually had to go. Got into flight school. Then discovered that whoever graduated top in his class could pick their assignments -- bombers or recon. For the first time in his life, he studied his ass off, desperate to take top honors so he could sign up for recon. It was the only way he'd be able to avoid dropping bombs on people and he thought he'd go mad if he had to do that.
Came in second in his class, and was devastated. Then the top guy picked a bombing assignment, and my dad got recon. He served two tours. I've seen a few of the letters he wrote home to my mother, talking about the anguish he felt at knowing he was doing recon which would be used to plan bombing runs that would kill women and children. Said all he could think of was my mother and me down there somewhere. (I was born while he was doing basic training in Quantico.)
He came home. Never talked about his experience so far as I know. Was never able to watch the Deer Hunter. Just tried to get on with his life. Most generous, loving man I've ever known...till mr. jezebel.
He served, he hated every minute of it and it scarred him forever. None of us knows what McCain thought as he was doing his bombing runs. I hope none of us ever has the opportunity to find out.
I think McCain is an uber-consertative, scary fuck for a lot of reasons. But I've got nothing to say about his time in Vietnam.
My favorite Breslin book-"Table Money". God, can that man write.
Tweety on Allen: Her's a good-looking guy! Women love him! And he's not too smart!
NYMary |
WHERE does Tweety get the idea that women find STUPID men attractive?
Allen is like Bush - bovine face with nothing in the eyes.
That's "COMPLICIT," dirk.
somtymes i git so madd i kant even tipe!
To many it's a pariotism test.
littoral- 11:52 am
true, dat...
prob'ly Kerry woulda carried the day if he'd been killed in Nam....
/snark
Allen is like Bush - bovine face with nothing in the eyes.
tiny confederate flag lapel pin reflections.
I saw this correction in the Washington Post. I found it allegorical.
Correction to This Article
A May 12 KidsPost article incorrectly identified cartoon spies Boris and Nastasha as Russian. They were from the fictional Pottsylvania.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...6051101759.html
Many of the Viet Nam vets I know don't want to talk about it.
One fella wants nothing to do with guns because "I left that shit over in Nam."
Others - oh, it was so terrible but they act as though they were SO special for going....like they're better than everyone else who went and better than the guys who want to move on with their lives and not talk about all the time.
I beg to differ, McCain was never in "combat". He dropped bombs from way up in the sky, then he was shot down and captured.
Karin "
I think dodging SAM's probably counts as being in combat in the military's eyes.
i dont respect him
1 cause he learned nothing from it
2 because he USES his hero-hood for nefarious purpose
sittenpretty
Thta pretty much says it all when one considers whether or not McCain deserves respect.
"This is why people give us a hard time."
What people?
Right wing assholes?
Hey, I don't see anybody here actually supporting his candidacy.
Nope. But based on what I know of the present Democratic party I have a feeling that somehow McCain is going to win in '08.
prob'ly Kerry woulda carried the day if he'd been killed in Nam....
Or come back raving about "gooks" and "killing a Commie for Christ."
Correction to This Article
A May 12 KidsPost article incorrectly identified cartoon spies Boris and Nastasha as Russian. They were from the fictional Pottsylvania.
*These* mistakes they fix.
Wait! one better: "A May 12 KidsPost article incorrectly identified cartoon spies Boris and Nastasha as Russian. They were Democrats."
I think McCain is an uber-consertative, scary fuck for a lot of reasons. But I've got nothing to say about his time in Vietnam.
jezebel | 05.20.06 - 11:54 am | #
*****************************
jezey
YOUR DAD LEARNED SOMETHING
McCain did not
polar opposites imho
But based on what I know of the present Democratic party I have a feeling that somehow McCain is going to win in '08.
littoral
He's not even going to get the Repuke nomination.
He's stupid if he thinks he is.
jezebel:
That's a hell of a story about
your dad. He sounds amazing....
don't hear much from Bob Dole anymore about those "Democrat Wars."
jezey
YOUR DAD LEARNED SOMETHING
McCain did not
polar opposites imho
sittenpretty
A lot of them didn't learn anything.
The ones who supported Prince Fuckwit in 2004 to mention a few.
I feel bad for your father, jezebel. I don't understand his train of logic (I would have gone to Canada) but I'm sorry he had to go through what he did.
McCain was always pro-war, and still is.
Correction to This Article
A May 12 KidsPost article incorrectly identified cartoon spies Boris and Nastasha as Russian. They were from the fictional Pottsylvania.
my alltime favorite nyt correction waas 'the rapper identified as Ice-T was, in fact, Ice Cube.'
jezey
YOUR DAD LEARNED SOMETHING
McCain did not
polar opposites imho
sittenpretty | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 11:58 am | #
**************************
forgot to add McCainis dangerous for the lessons NOT learned, no?
McCain was always pro-war, and still is.
Karin |
Which is one reason I can't stand the asshole.
That and the fact that he not only didn't defend his family in 2000, but he's been bending over and spreading them for Bush, Rove, etc. ever since then.
my alltime favorite nyt correction waas 'the rapper identified as Ice-T was, in fact, Ice Cube.'
At least it wasn't Vanilla Ice.
my alltime favorite nyt correction waas 'the rapper identified as Ice-T was, in fact, Ice Cube.'
Another kentucky coal mine disaster.
/osha, anyone?
This looks like a job for the Ken. OSHA Kid.
jezebel,
now your father's service, i respect. i wasn't implying (i hope) that every soldier should follow up his tour with a life of public protests. i can certainly see where that would be extremely painful to someone like your dad.
of course, he is probably not sending anyone else to a war of choice, a war of lies, in short "a war" today.
To many it's a pariotism test.
littoral
Nope, many claim it's a priotism test, but after what they did to slime Kerry, I'll believe the mofos again.
And let's remember, in the early sixties you did what your government told you to. A lot of people who were against the war went because they felt they had to do what America told them to do. There was also a feeling that the guys in charge knew more than the plebes so it was better to trust them. We're talking a time when people expected to spend their working lives with one corporation that would take care of them. So McCain went not necessarily to defend America but because not going after having been called would have been akin to becoming an outlaw.
WHERE does Tweety get the idea that women find STUPID men attractive?
Allen is like Bush - bovine face with nothing in the eyes.
Terry C, Politikal Girl | 05.20.06 - 11:54 am | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
he is OH SO HANDSSSSSSOME
standing on top of his monaie$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$
This looks like a job for the Ken. OSHA Kid.
Do you look like a Ken doll all over, TKK?
A propos of McCain and his support of the Iraq War is Kipling:
"Common Form
If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied. "
Or perhaps Wilfred Owen:
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori."
But based on what I know of the present Democratic party I have a feeling that somehow McCain is going to win in '08.
littoral
i'm afraid that it's going to be jeb.
jezebel --
Thanks for that story -- I was on a carrier in the Gulf of Tonkin
There are no good wars
We are all complicit
Some of us are more complicit than others
NYMary -- not sure that not having been in a hospital except for maternity wards & emergency rooms is a +
lunch bell -- later
"The rapper in question was in fact Ice-Cube. Mr. Cube's spokesman categorically denied....."
Mine deaths up from 3 to 5.
He's not even going to get the Repuke nomination
If nothing drastic happens McCain will get the nomination. Bet on it. Republicans hate losing more than anything.
McStain's military through and through.
fucker's dad was a fucking admiral; he's never seemed to regret what he was a part of in Nam, never seemed to have a moment's regret for the death and destruction he delivered from his A-4 onto the innocents of Hanoi, Haiphong, etc...
he never seems to have admitted he wouldn't have undergone all those terrible torments of captivity if he hadn't been killing innocent people in the fucking first place...
i detest these 'warriors': loathe, detest, and honestly, fear them...they have no fucking soul...
./
An e-mail I just got from a buddy of mine:
"As for Bushie and the rest of the clowns in Washington, why am I reminded of the Rev. Jim Jones and Jonestown, Guyana? It is just exactly what they are doing. My guess is that the electorate will turn out in serious numbers in November and kick ass like never before, but before their terms expire, they'll gut the economy and everything else."
heya moonbats
Ewwwwww.
I just took a look at "The Kiss."
Where is the Barf Bag?
I don't think people in the early sixties were any more conformist or obedient to the government, than they are now. Avoidance of military service during Vietnam was widespread and cut across all classes, races, and political persuasions.
How much you wanna bet that the mine
in Kentucky where they just had
the explosion was a non-union shop?
At the next Q & A McCain endures, I'd like to have someone ask him why he voted to legalise torture and the fruits of it.
Do you look like a Ken doll all over, TKK?
Good zinger, NYBritney
Coal: the killer energy source.
Prior
I don't feel complicit at all. Not for this war, nor for the earlier one.
Guilt is an interesting drug.
i'm afraid that it's going to be jeb.
dirk gently,noncomplicit
Oh, I hope they're that stupid. He's got as much chance at winning as his post-consumer product girlfriend, Katie.
sittenpretty --
I love you dearly, but I really don't know what my father learned, if anything, except maybe that the reality was even worse than what he feared. Like I said, he never talked about it.
I don't know what McCain took from his experience either. Maybe he's talked about it or written about it or something -- I don't know. I just would far rather judge him by his post-Vietnam record than by what he did or thought in, or learned from, Vietnam. And his post-Vietnam record gives me more than enough reasons to hope he never gets anywhere near the presidency.
Anyway, I've got to run now. Sorry to drop the long post and go -- carry on!
p.s. to steve simels -- yep, he was a good man. Far from perfect, but a good man. Children and animals adored him. Seriously -- little kids would run up and hug him in stores. And he was always bringing home stray dogs, to my mother's chagrin. Far from perfect, but he was my father and I loved him for sure.
Anyway, now I'm off -- enjoy your weekend, all!
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka...
McCain's love of war comes naturally, it would seem.
Top priest told to retire as Pope toughens stand on child abuse
Pope Benedict threw his authority behind a new and uncompromising approach to sex abuse in the Roman Catholic church yesterday when he ordered one of its most influential figures, who faces multiple allegations, to give up his ministry and retire to a life of "prayer and repentance".
A statement issued by the Vatican said 86-year-old Father Marcial Maciel, the founder of the ultra-orthodox Legion of Christ, had only escaped a full trial in an ecclesiastical court because of his "advanced age [and] frail health".
Father Maciel's case had been repeatedly shelved by church leaders over a period of 30 years.
The statement made a point of noting that the sanctions against the priest had been personally endorsed by the pontiff.
His landmark ruling astonished and delighted campaigners for the victims of abuse. It represented a clear departure from the timorous policy of John Paul II, and appeared to be a first step toward fulfilling the new pontiff's vow to sweep "filth" from the church.
Do you look like a Ken doll all over, TKK?
Only when wearing a hat.
it's his post-war record which troubles me. that and his Arizona mob connections (ask GWPDA next time she's on)...
Abso-fucking-lutely. You have it exactly right, IMO.
lunch bell -- later
Prior Aelred | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 12:05 pm | #
****************************
dearest Prior ,so glad you are here safe and sound and able to fight the wingnuts from here..you2 WGG
We are all complicit
Some of us are more complicit than others
i fought my part of the war from an air-conditioned trailer atop a high peak overlooking China Beach, providing tactical target information--bridges, railyards, vital road intersections, dams that fed irrigation systems, etc. to USAF F-105s...
i do not look back with any pride at all...but with profound regret...
.
i'm afraid that it's going to be jeb.
dirk gently,noncomplicit
I hope the hell it's Frist.
As I've said before, I have heard diehard, batshit crazy fundies refer to Cat Killer Billy as "boring."
h, I hope they're that stupid. He's got as much chance at winning as his post-consumer product girlfriend, Katie.
NYMary |
Oh word up!
I'm gonna bounce for about 15.
Monsieur and I applauded when we read this.
I'm working on more baby pics. I may be doing heavy MaddiBlogging for a while now.
We are all complicit
Some of us are more complicit than others
Amen.
i do not look back with any pride at all...but with profound regret...
.
WoodyGuthrie'sGuitar(aka... |
YOU have a heart and a conscience.
The enforcer
Colonel Tim Spicer is effectively in charge of the second largest military force in Iraq - some 20,000 private soldiers. Just don't call him a mercenary
Stephen Armstrong
Colonel Tim Spicer is the future of warfare. Immaculately dressed, effortlessly charming, a keen Eric Clapton fan with tickets for most of Slowhand's gigs over the summer, he is also effectively in charge of the second largest military force in Iraq: the estimated 20,000 private security personnel who outnumber the British army by almost three to one. Spicer's company Aegis has a contract with the Pentagon worth almost $300m to oversee the 16 private security companies providing personnel, security, military training and reconstruction. As Bush's poll ratings fall, it looks as if these private soldiers will only increase.
All you need to know about McCain is in this Rude Pundit post.
Alas, John McCain
Yes, yes, we know that you were a real soldier of a nation's military, a real prisoner of a real war so that the breaking of the Geneva Convention was more clear-cut. But, in the end, what happened to you meets the boundaries of legal torture laid out in the memo that Alberto Gonzales requested: you were never brought to organ failure or, indeed, death. If you support Gonzales or the President on this, what you will say is that others deserve what you went through, that your torture at the hands of your captors will be simply the average, expected behavior of our nation towards those we pre-deem evil. Like the North Vietnamese believed you were.
And you will have contradicted yourself with your amendment to the Intelligence Reform Bill, the amendment you put forth with Joe Lieberman outlawing "extreme interrogation measures." It passed with 96 votes in the Senate and was cut in conference committee, with the advice of the Bush adminstration involved. These fuckers don't care about your pain, your torture. They only believe in power, like every torturing nation in history.
You know that the Geneva Convention is a golden rule agreement: do unto others as blah, blah, blah. So by voting for Gonzales, you and anyone else will be saying that it's okay for others to waterboard American soldiers, tying them to a board and plunging their heads under until they "think" they're going to drown. You'll say it's okay for American POWs to have wet towels wrapped around their heads so that they begin to suffocate. And you'll be saying, really, truly, that America, this country, which you represent, believes it's just fine that American soldiers may be placed into solitary confinement for years, questioned by using violence and threats of violence, forced to stand until their muscles tear.
All those nightmare things that happened to you, you poor bastard, all those aches that you feel on humid days, whenever you walk to a podium to speak. Vote yes on Gonzales, Senator McCain, and no one should give a shit about your story and your pain ever again.
We all know how he voted.
i meant i am afraind that jeb is actually going to be appointed. by scotus, diebold, the nsa, exxon, whoever.
I'm working on more baby pics. I may be doing heavy MaddiBlogging for a while now.
YAY! She's a cutey. Really, not at all like a lizard, but a real beauty. Lucky grandma!
How much you wanna bet that the mine
in Kentucky where they just had
the explosion was a non-union shop?
steve simels
And that it has a history of violations with MSHA that were never fully investigated or properly fined.
We all know how he voted.
HoneyBearKelly
Yep!
when The Rude One shoots, he's lethal.
Hamas accused over Gaza blast
The chief of Palestinian intelligence services has been taken to a hospital in Israel after being seriously injured in a blast at his Gaza headquarters.
Tareq Abu Rajab, the overall head of the Palestinian Authority intelligence services, was with several of his bodyguards in a lift when an explosion ripped through the building in Gaza City on Saturday.
Palestinian security sources accused Hamas, the Islamist movement in government, of being behind what it said was an assassination attempt. Hamas called for calm and said that people should not jump to conclusions about what had happened.
Ali Abu Hassira, Abu Rajab's bodyguard and nephew, died of his wounds shortly after the explosion, and at least 15 other people were wounded in the blast and when shots were fired on the convoy transporting Abu Rajab to hospital.
At the risk of channeling Somerby, it's the media scripts generated by our media-script gentleperson farmers that will make McCain viable as a presidential candidate. Not surprisingly, I had the same reaction to McCain as Tena from the get-go-- i.e., whatever his history, I always saw through that lame, phony "straight-shooter/maverick" spin that propelled McCain to national prominence.
But he's clearly exactly the type of celebrity politician that make our white, bright, and polite cadre of political infotainers quiver in adulation. Forget the Unitard™-- McCain is the "down-to-earth" man's man they pant to have a beer with.
Once the DC/political beat infotainers generate that McCainmania groupthink, the memes will flourish like the heads of Hydra. He can easily ride such gusts of hot helium to present the public with, as it were, a new, improved version of the Unitary Executive.
The fact that he is essentially a poser and a bullshitter will be buried further down than Jimmy Hoffa.
ok, time to go outside and pretend i am part of reality.
later, bats.
I don't think people in the early sixties were any more conformist or obedient to
the government, than they are now. Avoidance of military service during Vietnam
was widespread and cut across all classes, races, and political persuasions.
Karin | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 12:06 pm | #
Actually, they were. Trust me, I
was there.
It took Vietnam to disabuse people
of the idea that the government might
lie to you and that America might not
live up to its rhetoric.
Oh sure some people knew that earlier --
Mort Sahl, Joseph Heller, Richard
Condon -- come to mind. But by and
large the
mainstream culture totally bought the
schoolboy myths of American democracy.
Until Vietnam.
a keen Eric Clapton fan with tickets for most of Slowhand's gigs over the summer, he is also effectively in charge of the second largest military force in Iraq:
I hope Clapton speaks loudly and clearly against the war and its profiteers at every concert....
NTodd-how do you like being an uncle?
We are all complicit
I don't know about that. If we in fact lived in a democracy, then yes, each American would bear some share of responsibility. However, if the democracy is a sham, then the sense of complicity is nothing more than another sham perpetrated by the warlike government upon its own people.
His landmark ruling astonished and delighted campaigners for the victims of abuse. It represented a clear departure from the timorous policy of John Paul II, and appeared to be a first step toward fulfilling the new pontiff's vow to sweep "filth" from the church.
Moonbootica, Buffy Geek
To quote a song title from the 1970s:
One Monkey Don't Stop No Show.
So he makes an example of one 86 year old perv.
BFD.
HoneyBear has it right.
HoneyBear has it right.
HoneyBear usually does.
Sallyh,
Are the Maddy pics posted at someplace other than your homepage?
Witty, confident, relaxed - yes, it's Al Gore
Speculation mounts that former presidential hopeful will run again
Al Gore has had plenty of time to develop a self-deprecating sense of humour over the past six years, and it shows. "My name is Al Gore, and I used to be the next president of the United States," the broad-shouldered 58-year-old tells audiences wherever he goes.
The line has replaced an earlier joke - "You win some, you lose some, and then there's that little-known third category" - but the message in both cases is the same: laugh along with me, please, because otherwise, imagining how different things could have been, we might have to cry.
It is a wry kind of wit, of a sort that might have helped the former vice-president in the 2000 election campaign, when he was widely lambasted as wooden and robotic. And it is tinged with an anger that might have come in handy during the supreme court battle with George Bush, when many of Mr Gore's own supporters felt he acted spinelessly. But the Gore of 2006 is a different person and, it appears, Americans have begun to take notice.
However, if the democracy is a sham, then the sense of complicity is nothing more than another sham perpetrated by the warlike government upon its own people.
We are all complicit because we are all bacteria.
Thanks for telling your father's story, jezebel. I totally understand why he did what he did. You must be very proud of him.
Yes, the war was wrong, but it was impossible for many to turn their backs on it until it got so bad, it became indefensible. Those who continued to support it deliberately blinded themselves to the horror.
I don't believe for one minute that McCain really thinks we're doing anything to actually fight terrorism by being in Iraq. This makes him even more repugnant.
"he not only didn't defend his family in 2000"
That alone tells me that for whatever he was a soldier, it is gone now. You can discuss whether he learned something from his time in the air and in captivity or not, But how he dealt with that situation (and still does) tells you the measure of the man now.
If he will not defend his family and try to remove those who pulled such a vulgar stunt, how can we expect him to defend the country and constitution?
We are all complicit because we are all bacteria.
Thers | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 12:15 pm | #
Swimming in a fascist soup.
However, if the democracy is a sham, then the sense of complicity is nothing more than another sham perpetrated by the warlike government upon its own people
We got what we deserved. I believe that.
Smart kid. She's right of course" - Here's the good news that's not in your paper today:
So many bodies arrive at the morgue each day - 40 is not unusual on a "quiet" day - that it is impossible to let relatives in to identify them. Hence the slideshow in the yard outside. The bodies are dumped in sewage plants or irrigation canals, or just in the middle of the street. Many show signs of torture. Every morning a procession of pickup trucks, minibuses and cars line up with their coffins outside the concrete blast walls of the ministry of health to pick up their cargo. One death often courts another. Many Sunnis say the mourners are attacked en route. When they go to retrieve the body of a relative, family members often wait in the car clutching their weapons in anticipation.
I'm working on more baby pics. I may be doing heavy MaddiBlogging for a while now.
posted this yesterday, and I'll say it again - she's gorgeous!
I will pay one dollar for a photoshopped "The Kiss" with tongues extended.
Swimming in a fascist soup.
hetero puke soup, served chilled with a parsley garni.
Rorshcach does not speak for soup!
I don't think people in the early sixties were any more conformist or obedient to the government, than they are now. Avoidance of military service during Vietnam was widespread and cut across all classes, races, and political persuasions.
Karin
that was later in the sixties. The early sixties were about like the fifties. Incredily conformist.
Swimming in a fascist soup.
hetero puke soup, served chilled with a parsley garni.
watertiger | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 12:17 pm | #
It's kinda stringy.
Beautiful infink, sallyh!
I may be doing heavy MaddiBlogging for a while now.
We love baby pictures!!
previous Iraq post was mine - here's more good news from Iraq not in your newspaper"
Is Liberal Mountain recovering from that nasty virus?
And how is SP?
Um...where are you folks finding the pics of Sallyh's grandchild?
sallyh ...
Vôus etes une grandmere maitenant? Félicitations, madame!
As for Jeb I think there's something in his past that he knows will be dug up if he runs for president.
Something to do with the heirs to Domino Sugar, cocaine and Cubans.
I've been trying to dig up this old Vanity Fair article I read about it without success.
Wish I had a Lexis/Nexis account.
watertiger, We're back on our feet, more or less. It'll take some time before we're ourselves again, though.
Latest Hitler: how lies become news.
Hardly ever the question is asked "Are the American people learning?"
"Look over there! Ileagal aliens!"
God won't help us - we've got to help ourselves.
NTodd-how do you like being an uncle?
It's nice, though I haven't gotten as many presents as I expected...
If we in fact lived in a democracy, then yes, each American would bear some share of responsibility. However, if the democracy is a sham, then the sense of complicity is nothing more than another sham perpetrated by the warlike government upon its own people.
All regimes require the consent of the people. While we may not be as directly responsible as Bush and his supporters, we obviously did not do enough to stop the war. What sacrifices did we really make to slow down the machine, to convince our fellow citizens of the rightness of our cause, etc? Not enough, and that is, whether we like it or not, a failure on our part. The blood is on all of our hands.
NTodd-how do you like being an uncle?
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 12:12 pm | #
************************8
sall........did ya get my email?
Big politio panel from the Book Expo on CSPAN 2: Pat Buchanan, Silly Sully, Arianna, and Frank Rich.
ii>In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. - Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We got what we deserved. I believe that.
Well, I don't. And the fact that no one has been able to stop the Bush machine as yet shows how powerless we've been.
I blame Bush and the media for this. The American people, not so much. Most didn't deserve this or ask that it be done in our name.
Managing, Somehow, to Survive Without Parasites
NYMary - Be sure to rest up to keep on producing the nectar that SP is going desire to make up for lost ground.
Latest Hitler: how lies become news.
The driver of my car service yesterday was listening to 1010 WINS and they had the story. It was all I could do to keep from blurting out, "that's a fucking lie!"
NYMary ...
Did you all have a virus en masse, a la "The Secret Lives of Dentists?"
I have no doubt there's lots to dig up on Jeb.
God bless Ms. Rohe.
And Mr. Fish.
http://www.harpers.org/art/
carto...Moammar_504.jpg
-
Split emerges in West's front against Iran: diplomats
BERLIN (Reuters) - The European Union and Washington are split over an EU proposal to offer Iran a generous package of incentives including nuclear reactors and security pledges if it stops enriching uranium, diplomats said on Saturday.
The EU draft offer of a package of incentives in exchange for a suspension of enrichment has caused a split in the West's previously united position on Iran since Washington has serious reservations about the European plan, EU diplomats said.
The plan will be discussed in London on Wednesday by senior officials from the "EU3", the United States, Russia and China, an EU diplomat familiar with the EU3's preliminary draft proposal told Reuters.
"We agreed to offer Iran a nuclear power plant and possibly more along with support for an international (nuclear) fuel consortium to guarantee fuel for civilian nuclear activity," the diplomat said on condition of anonymity.
All regimes require the consent of the people. While we may not be as directly responsible as Bush and his supporters, we obviously did not do enough to stop the war. What sacrifices did we really make to slow down the machine, to convince our fellow citizens of the rightness of our cause, etc? Not enough, and that is, whether we like it or not, a failure on our part. The blood is on all of our hands.
I agree, NTodd. What's being done is being done in our name, with our tax dollars, and because we are not out in the streets shutting the country down. We are many. They are few.
Did you all have a virus en masse, a la "The Secret Lives of Dentists?"
res ipsa loq
More like "Little House on the Prairie."
The early sixties were about like the fifties. Incredily conformist.
ofmrql in ny
Yes, it was.
I have no doubt there's lots to dig up on Jeb.
Karin
He fucked himself with the Schiavo fiasco.
Hi everyone!
Hope you're all well today!
I think my stomach flu is finally on the way out!
Yay!
Iraq is disintegrating as ethnic cleansing takes hold
Across central Iraq, there is an exodus of people fleeing for their lives as sectarian assassins and death squads hunt them down. At ground level, Iraq is disintegrating as ethnic cleansing takes hold on a massive scale.
The state of Iraq now resembles Bosnia at the height of the fighting in the 1990s when each community fled to places where its members were a majority and were able to defend themselves. "Be gone by evening prayers or we will kill you," warned one of four men who called at the house of Leila Mohammed, a pregnant mother of three children in the city of Baquba, in Diyala province north-east of Baghdad. He offered chocolate to one of her children to try to find out the names of the men in the family.
Mrs Mohammed is a Kurd and a Shia in Baquba, which has a majority of Sunni Arabs. Her husband, Ahmed, who traded fruit in the local market, said: "They threatened the Kurds and the Shia and told them to get out. Later I went back to try to get our furniture but there was too much shooting and I was trapped in our house. I came away with nothing." He and his wife now live with nine other relatives in a three-room hovel in Khanaqin.
The same pattern of intimidation, flight and death is being repeated in mixed provinces all over Iraq. By now Iraqis do not have to be reminded of the consequences of ignoring threats.
i'm proud to say my daughter goes to the New School and she said the students were beyond incensed at Johnny M coming there
McCain is and always was a tool. I was eligible for the same war, and knew it was wrong, and spent a lot of time and energy fighting against it, and refusing to be drafted. Muhammad Ali put it best when he stated that no Viet Cong had attacked him. mcCain is a war criminal, plain and simple, and that "heroism" of his is just stupidity, AFAIC. Talk about planning your political career from a war zone, he's the most cynical son of a bitch that has ever achieved office. Kerry has nothing on him for political ambition.
I think Jeb's non-Anglo wife and kids are a little more than the base could handle. Plus, there's a fair few arrests in the immediate family, IIRC. McCain is much more of a threat, IMO.
NTodd--I see your point, but at the same time I feel that anger directed at those most immediately responsible for this bullshit war much more useful than any generalized sense of complicity among the antiwar folks.
On a related note, I have a hard time blaming people who've been victimized by poverty and mis-education for all their lives for supporting the bullshit war, or winding up fighting in it.
On one level, sure, but when the deck is so thoroughly stacked against common sense and reason, the guilt borne by the average American (and the average soldier) is greatly reduced...
We're back on our feet, more or less. It'll take some time before we're ourselves again, though.
Well, stay off those feet for a while! You guys are owed some serious rest and recuperation.
Why Sunni are key in sectarian warfare
The Sunni Arabs of Iraq feel they are fighting for their very existence. Some 5 million strong, they see themselves as fighting against a foreign occupation and impending Shia and Kurdish domination.
The past three years have brought nothing but disasters. When Saddam Hussein was overthrown many Sunni reviled him as a disastrous ruler. They scarcely fought for him during the US and British invasion, despite dominating the officer corps and security services. But as foreign occupation was established and the army dissolved, they launched a guerrilla war.
The Sunni insurgency proved highly effective. They could not drive the Americans out, but neither could the US stabilise its rule. This still remains true.
"The Kurds were able to destabilise Iraq for 50 years," said the Iraqi commentator Ghassan Attiyah. "The Sunni can certainly do the same."
NYMary,
You were sick, too?
Ohhhh...damn! I'm double sorry to hear that. Sounds like the baby is on the mend, though.
God bless you.
The early sixties were about like the fifties. Incredily conformist.
ofmrql in ny
The fifties were much, much less conformist than we are led to believe.
McCain is and always was a tool. I was eligible for the same war, and knew it was wrong, and spent a lot of time and energy fighting against it, and refusing to be drafted. Muhammad Ali put it best when he stated that no Viet Cong had attacked him. mcCain is a war criminal, plain and simple, and that "heroism" of his is just stupidity, AFAIC. Talk about planning your political career from a war zone, he's the most cynical son of a bitch that has ever achieved office. Kerry has nothing on him for political ambition.
ronjazz, formerly free
ronjazz always gets to the heart of the matter and expresses it beautifully.
I agree, NTodd. What's being done is being done in our name, with our tax dollars, and because we are not out in the streets shutting the country down. We are many. They are few.
Hecate, Grammar Fag
Me too also.
I suspect part of the problem is too many of us are working long hours at more than one job and are just trying to survive and put food on our families.
At this point, I think the most we can hope for is the kind of anti-incumbent fever which Lamont's numbers could very well indicate.
Hamas official is caught trying to smuggle £440,000 into Gaza
A senior Hamas official on Friday tried to sneak 639,000 euros (£434,000) into the Gaza Strip, hiding 500-euro bills in a white pouch tucked under his shirt in the first major cash smuggling attempt by an increasingly desperate Hamas government choked by Western economic sanctions.
Palestinian security forces confiscated the cash at the Egypt-Gaza border and moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Hamas' main political rival, ordered a criminal investigation. Abbas' decision was bound to further heighten tensions, after police loyal to Abbas and a new Hamas militia exchanged fire earlier Friday.
Hamas demanded that the money be returned, saying it was collected among private donors abroad and intended for Gaza's poor. The alleged smuggler, Hamas spokesman Abu Zuhri, "resorted to this way ... when all other ways were blocked," said government official Ghazi Hamad.
don't know about that. If we in fact lived in a democracy, then yes, each American would bear some share of responsibility. However, if the democracy is a sham, then the sense of complicity is nothing more than another sham perpetrated by the warlike government upon its own people.
rorschach
Well said.
And thank you. I feel complicit in Iraq. I didn't in Vietnam. I was opposed to Iraq, but I feel terrible about it.
Al Gore has had plenty of time to develop a self-deprecating sense of humour over the past six years, and it shows.
What, Brazile and Begala told him the focus groups said he needed a sense of humor? Jeeeeezus. Here we go again.
The fifties were much, much less conformist than we are led to believe.
Yes, indeed. I prefer to refer to the 50's and early 60's as the time of silent secrets. Everybody had one, but it was taboo to discuss anything other than Pleasantville.
Pulled from the bowels of The Kiss thread...
Electioneering at the Connecticut Convention from today's New Haven Independent
:::I’m supporting Joe Lieberman,” said Voigt. Not that Joe is perfect. The senator’s support for anti-abortion Supreme Court nominees like Sam Alito and especially his pro-Iraq war stance had even his supporters frowning Friday evening. “But he’s a straight shooter,” said Voigt. “I may be more liberal, but I know I don’t represent the whole party.”:::
Lamont: The Debate Is On
:::Anti-war and pro-war chants soon clashed in the foyer of Hartford’s Connecticut Expo Center. :::
:::The two have not yet done so, but Lamont says he’s ready to face off. “I’d be delighted to talk about the issues.”:::
I suspect part of the problem is too many of us are working long hours at more than one job and are just trying to survive and put food on our families.
We aren't college students and the counter-culture
any more. It's fucking hard when you have kids and payments and all the rest.
I suspect part of the problem is too many of us are working long hours at more than one job and are just trying to survive and put food on our families.
I think there's a lot to that. I dream of having the time and leisure to actually get involved.
Exposed: No. 10 is worst offender in Government for wasting water
Tony Blair has been accused of pouring water down the drain after figures showed Downing Street wastes thousands of gallons a year.
Figures released by the Government's green watchdog showed the Cabinet offices, including Downing Street, use 31.07 cubic metres of water, or 6,834 gallons, for each full-time employee a year, even though it is one of the smallest offices in Whitehall.
Their consumption in 2004-05 amounted to 9,300,000gal for 1,546 staff. It represents nearly twice the consumption of the next most thirsty Whitehall department and four times the Government's own target for Whitehall water use.
Yesterday the Cabinet Office insisted it had cut its consumption by more than three per cent during the last financial year. But officials admitted they still used 6,615gal of water per person in 2005-06.
“But he’s a straight shooter,” said Voigt. “I may be more liberal, but I know I don’t represent the whole party.”:::
You stupid shit!
Professor Stone quotes Justice Louis Brandeis, who wrote "Those who won our independence … knew that … fear breeds repression and that courage is the secret of liberty." There is no such courage in the Bush and Cheney presidency.
~John W. Dean
i must admit none of my friends I hang out with do not show any interest in politics.
its quite depressing actually.
well surely by now,
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul
bob should write another one, i at least hope he has this one in rotation.
What, Brazile and Begala told him the focus groups said he needed a sense of humor? Jeeeeezus. Here we go again.
I'd be very, very surprised if either of them supported him doinmg anything ever again. He was bad for their image.
I suspect part of the problem is too many of us are working long hours at more than one job and are just trying to survive and put food on our families.,
QL was saying this at dinner the other night. The thugs have taken advantage of the fact that most people are now too busy trying not to get sick and "uniquely" working three jobs that the most they can do at the end of a day is sit in front of the telly and watch "American Idol" because they're too tired to do anything else.
I think Jeb's non-Anglo wife and kids are a little more than the base could handle. Plus, there's a fair few arrests in the immediate family, IIRC. McCain is much more of a threat, IMO.
I agree.
He does scare me. I'm encouraged that there has already been so much resistance to him.
Part 2 of Pulled from the bowels of The Kiss thread {which I didn't post in the Ned thread due to be out to dinner}...
Stamford Advocate on the vote
::: A Stamford native, Lieberman dominated the urban vote, winning 37 of 50 delegates in Stamford, 57 of 69 in his current hometown of New Haven and 43 of 54 in Hartford.
"I've known him forever," said Ellen Camhi, chairman of the Stamford Democratic Town Committee and a Lieberman supporter. "He's a good friend. He still has integrity. I'm very loath to throw out an incumbent unless he's done something egregious."
Lamont, who won 19 of Greenwich's 22 delegates, fared well in rural areas with fewer delegates. He won several small towns, including Kent, Bridgewater and Roxbury.
"The official Democratic Party is behind Lieberman," said Edward Krumeich Jr., a Greenwich delegate who supported Lamont. "It's the grass roots that are the Lamont supporters."
Lamont also made a strong showing in medium-sized cities such as New Britain (24 delegates to Lieberman's seven) and Norwalk (14 to eight).
Former Norwalk mayor Alex Knopp voted with the minority in that city, however, saying it was more important to keep the sitting Democrat in Washington.:::
As I said before 2450 dead Americans isn't egregious, I guess.
Roadside bomb targets UK troops
Two British soldiers have been injured in a roadside bombing in southern Iraq, the Ministry of Defence has said.
An MoD spokesman said British-led troops were on a routine patrol north west of Basra when they were attacked.
The wounded soldiers sustained light injuries and have been taken back to their base in the city, he added.
BBC correspondent Paul Wood said their Land Rover was set alight after being targeted by a group who gathered at the site after the explosion.
Our correspondent said the tempo of roadside bomb attacks against British troops has increased in recent weeks.
The fifties were much, much less conformist than we are led to believe.
Coming from a family that were non-conformers, that's my view also.
And there are degrees of complicity. My father lived in Germany till 1939 and nothing pisses him off more than people saying the average German was cowardly, or did not speak up against Hitler enough, when it could have cost you your life.
How many people here (I mean Americans, not people here, specifically)are afraid to speak up when the risk is so much lower, just to avoid losing a job, an argument with a friend or family member, or just a moment of discomfort?
he fifties were much, much less conformist than we are led to believe.
rorschach
jebus, not for girls they weren't. This is prepill days we're talking about.
But the Gore of 2006 is a different person and, it appears, Americans have begun to take notice.
Moonbootica, Buffy Geek
GORE2006. Some assembly required.
Rampant conformism can be a valuable backdrop at times. The thing we think of as the fifties was apparently a necessary precedent to the Beat Generation. Struggle needs a target.
-
there is a definative sense of disllusionment amongst my peer group I think or at least get a feel off.
a sense of being let down by the main political parties.
that the most they can do at the end of a day is sit in front of the telly and watch "American Idol" because they're too tired to do anything else.
watertiger
The day I get tired enough to watch THAT dreck is the day they can take me out and shoot me.
jebus, not for girls they weren't. This is prepill days we're talking about.
ofmrql in ny
I understand where you're coming from. I don't want to put words in rorschach's mouth, but the way I read his post was that there was a bit of a counter culture in the 50's, and the Ward and June Cleaver lifestyle wasn't what it appeared to be.
i think at elections there should be a 'none of the above' option.
heh the establishment would soon get the message if none of the above won.
OT, so humor me.
Has anyone heard from GWPDA in the last day and a half?
I suspect part of the problem is too many of us are working long hours at more than one job and are just trying to survive and put food on our families.
Certainly that was part of it.
But if people like Joe Wilson, and Scott Ritter and Hans Blix and countless others who offered sound reasons why Iraq was not a threat could not stop the war, how could we? They had their media time, and they were ignored. And frankly, enough people believed the WMD claims. No one was really sure something wasn't going to be found, which would have given them their justification.
jebus, not for girls they weren't. This is prepill days we're talking about.
ofmrql in ny | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 12:35 pm | #
Women, liberated by WWII from the home, did return to the home in large numbers after the war. But the changes wrought in American gender relations could not be undone.
Yes, things were much less conformist for men and women in the 50s than we are led to believe. Pill or no pill.
The Feminine Mystique came out in 1963, and it did not emerge from a vacuum.
jebus, not for girls they weren't. This is prepill days we're talking about.
ofmrql in ny
Well, yes and no.
There was more pressure to conform and it was more dangerous to take sexual risks, but that doesn't mean they weren't.
They were.
The thing we think of as the fifties was apparently a necessary precedent to the Beat Generation. Struggle needs a target.
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QuentinCompson | Homepage | 05.20.06 - 12:36 pm | #
The Beat Generation was, itself, rather a conformist sort of counterculture, based strongly in consumption...
See what a liberal rag the New York Times is, for covering this student's impertinent remarks? I'm declaring war on the NY Times.
[/Bill O'Reilly]
Well, I have to run. Despite y'all's recommendations, the fact is that I missed three work days this week and have to make up the work.
Bleah.
Has anyone heard from GWPDA in the last day and a half?
I got an email from her last night.
The Feminine Mystique came out in 1963, and it did not emerge from a vacuum.
There was a Christian book that came out somewhat later...was it The Complete Woman?...can't remember, as a counter to The Feminine Mystique.
My best friend, who grew up in the Dutch Christian Reformed Church here, was telling me how it was all the rage with good Christian ladies back in the 70s.