I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Fuck Bush!
And let Fritz frisk Frist first!
Now I'll go read the post.
crackhead media, you mean.
this whole thing smells to high heaven.
just one thing: i love this Eschaton community. That's all
And it's odd that they're Muslims who study the Bible and call themselves "The Seas of David." There must be a Buddhist angle somewhere...
Our crack media sucks, frankly.
plum - and we love you right back.
But I fucking hate hate hate ISPs. Goddamn earthlink DSL went down, reconfigured my network, made me redo the configuration and is not taking calls at this time.
Fucking goddamned ISPs.
At least I finally got back.
Re-RE-HICA?!?
.
I haven't gotten around to reading the indictment, but I have this gut feeling that the FBI and Justice Department is going to come out of this looking really foolish.
And as much as we can all seriously disagree with Lou Dobbs, I loved him yesterday in the lead up to his program on the "alleged" home-grown terrrists. He could barely keep the sarcasm out of his voice. Hell, I don't know if he was even trying.
The same doubts are appearing in Canada with the Toronto arrests of a few weeks ago. That smells bad as well. And the canadian arrests happened just a couple days before some in London. And the british medias are asking lots of question about that one oo. The timing.... funny innit? I think we might get a huge "attentat terroriste" but the spooks are not looking in the right places at all. It will blow in their faces
Tena: At least I finally got back.
Baby Got Back!
(sorry; if you feel sufficiently recovered from your Eurovirus, feel free to slap me)
.
Jeffraham: what does HICA means anyway?
Jeffraham - Alas, baby doesn't. Baby is too thin to have back and I really hate it.
I'm feeling better every day. But I still run out of steam by late afternoon.
Is it just me, or does Alberto Gonzales sound totally gay? Not that that is a bad thing, mind you....
Well plum p, I read somewhere yesterday on one of these internets that some are becoming concerned that these early "October" surprises may get old by the time October actually comes around.
plum p -- All is explained...
.
"Our crack media."
Yeah, emphasis on "crack."
aiiight, makin' a break for it.
later, peeps.
I haven't gotten around to reading the indictment, but I have this gut feeling that the FBI and Justice Department is going to come out of this looking really foolish.
Diane
Yep.
Kind of like the way everyone touting the WMDs again should feel - way foolish.
The GWOT is a sham, folks. It doesn't exist.
Montréal Grand Prix qualifications on right now. I guess i'm staying here one more hour before i go out for a bit of Saint-Jean-Baptiste day, the National Holiday of Québec
"the leader of the group, Narseal Batiste, as a "Moses-like figure" who would roam the streets in a cape or bathrobe, toting a crooked wooden cane and looking for young men to join his group."
Hmmm. So we need to declare war on really deluded religious people who wear bathrobes and use canes.
Sounds good to me!
just one thing: i love this Eschaton community. That's all
plum p | Homepage | 06.24.06 - 1:19 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Me too!
some are becoming concerned that these early "October" surprises may get old by the time October actually comes around.
They were old in 2004. I really really hate campaign season. People on the internets run around screaming about how Karl Rove is going to do something!
It drives me nuts.
Coming up on MSNBC - net neutrality.
Coming up on MSNBC - net neutrality.
We literally are running out of troops.
plum p -- All is explained...
.
Jeffraham Prestonian
merci
Interesting how in such a short space of time there are terrorist busts in Canada, the US, Britain, Saudi Arabia, all while Congress is "debating" the proper course in Iraq.
Tena: I'm feeling better every day. But I still run out of steam by late afternoon.
I'm glad you're making progress, and feeling better. An, you don't have to be physically restrained in order to get your rest, unlike certain others we know and love...! 
Soon, that diet I prescribed of bacon cheeseburgers and ice cream will have you back to fightin' weight.
.
Is it just me, or does Alberto Gonzales sound totally gay? Not that that is a bad thing, mind you....
Anonymous | 06.24.06 - 1:25 pm | #
It's not just you. He sets off my gaydar when he talks.
So, which west coast blue state will Bush/Cheney let be attacked so a draft can be called? And how soon after that will we blame and bomb Iran?
Those poor kids. Did everyone see what a hell-hole that Liberty City neighborhood in Miami looks like? No wonder they're bored/crazy.
Arnie To Bush: Bite Me. I've Got An Election Of My Own Coming Up, You Moron
great title Hecate!
I really think these guys are not doing themselves any good by rounding up a bunch of goofball freaks like this and then claiming they have broken a terrorist cell. To me, it says more than anything else that they have no clue whatsoever who the real terrorists are, if they even exist.
But wait, this is a war on terror; it shouldn't be treated only as a crime, with law enforcement efforts, we need to kick some ass...../wingnut imitation
We literally are running out of troops.
Hecate, Brightly-Coiffed | Homepage | 06.24.06 - 1:27 pm | #
they done raised up the age limit to 42. Too late for me still, dammit, but I told my youngin' husband (3
and my little brother (40) to sign up toot sweet!
I believe that Juan Cole has a pretty good take on who these people are and what religion they practiced. They appeared to be a cult with Christian, Jewish, a very little Islam and some Haitian traditions to boot.
I am hoping BIG TIME that there is a Moony angle, now wouldn't that make interesting reading in the Washington Times!
Is it just me, or does Alberto Gonzales sound totally gay? Not that that is a bad thing, mind you....
Anonymous | 06.24.06 - 1:25 pm | #
It's not just you. He sets off my gaydar when he talks.
Another PTowner
He sets off my slimey graven toadie radar.
ellroon - I wish we would have the draft back. It would put a stop to this militaristic nonsense. IT did last time.
They won't do it - they know that's what finally stopped Vietnam.
Bastards.
Tena, I haven't been around much lately. You've been ill? Nothing serious, I hope?
Hey- @ NYTimes website, AdNags finally wrote something not so nice about the repugnicans!
I'm for the draft too Tena. It would stop the war. totally agree
BRING BACK THE DRAFT!
Abu Gonzales sets my gaydar, such as it is, off too in a big big way.
God I hate that little shit. He should be disbarred forthwith.
Is it just me, or does Alberto Gonzales sound totally gay? Not that that is a bad thing, mind you....
Anonymous
Even if not a closet case I truly believe these guys are so sexually repressed that the emotion has to be expelled in other ways.
Is it just me, or does Alberto Gonzales sound totally gay? Not that that is a bad thing, mind you....
Anonymous
Even if not a closet case I truly believe these guys are so sexually repressed that the emotion has to be expelled in other ways.
This is what happens when your nickname is sunny. You become a Muslim automatically (at least in the eyes of an unintelligent FBI-agent).
I wish we would have the draft back. It would put a stop to this militaristic nonsense.
I understand what you are saying Tena, but I am not for a draft as I have a 16 year old son that I want to have nothing to do with this shit.
I wish we would have the draft back. It would put a stop to this militaristic nonsense. IT did last time.
They won't do it - they know that's what finally stopped Vietnam.
Bastards.
Tena
I hear you but freak at the thought. My son is 23, my daughter is 15.
But a draft would sure focus the nation though. It would be hilarious to see the 101 keyboarders have a shitfit trying to explain why they couldn't sign up.
Maybe they're just Irish, like me.
This is what happens when your nickname is sunny. You become a Muslim automatically (at least in the eyes of an unintelligent FBI-agent).
Gandhi |
Or Sonny.
The late Mr. Bono would have had a heckuva time with that.
And how about knocking the N. Korean sub out of the sky?
It makes me very scared. My son-in-law is on a submarine somewhere in sea of japan right now (last we heard). I want him home with my daughter and not running around at the whim of Cheney who still wants to kill commies.
The ersatz Certificates and Diplomas on the walls of the warehouse were almost sad.
Can I just say how much I've missed all of you this week? I seem to have a herniated disk, and by the end of the workday all I can do I lie down. I don't have a laptop, yet, so sitting at my desk and cruising the blogs didn't happen much lately.
If I feel up to it tomorrow I might just go buy a laptop. My computer is over 5 years old, so it's time for a new one anyway. Right?
That way I could lie on my bed, reading and commenting away.
Even if not a closet case I truly believe these guys are so sexually repressed that the emotion has to be expelled in other ways.
ql in ny
nah, i say later signs of syphilis. It gives you demencia at the end
These are young directionless kids with nothing left to do but go jihadi and witlessly becoming a terror plan for the Media to hype the current "Red" menace while Shrub gets another easy claim of 'victory' in his terror war. All the while ignoring more dangerous fundies who are gaining traction in America with the Christians v. everybody hysteria being kicked up for the past 60 years.
As Daniel Schorr said this morning, even the threat of terrorism is enough to condemn people as terrorists.
Or something like that. He agreed with Ray Suarez that the government has to arrest people who talk about this stuff, because if they didn't and something happened, the government would take the blame.
We are all guilty until proven innocent. It's the only way to be safe!
Phila - Yah, I have. I got sick on the way home from Italy, though I was already working on it about halfway through the trip.
The trip was glorious for many reasons, but I will not travel like that again. Example of schedule: we got into Rome by bus at 3AM. We had a 5:30AM wake up call for a walking tour. Whole trip was like that and I was exhausted by about the 6th day. I also lost close to 10 pounds. We walked and we walked and we barely had time to eat most of the time.
Like Jose Padilla, these yahoos didn't actually do anything illegal. This is being arrested for thoughtcrime. So much for innocent until proven guilty.
Hey, my 25,000th hit was from someone in Brockville, Ontario.
.
Nobody's said whether the combat boots and offical turrist uniforms were actually delivered.
Gonzalez is as unimpressive a legal intellect as he is an appalling choice for the chief law enforcement official of a government founded on a constitution guaranteeing fundamental rights in part by requiring separation of powers. He wouldn't know a Federalist Paper if he were wiping his ass with it...
God I hate that little shit. He should be disbarred forthwith.
Tena
Oh, I don't know...there must be someplace for him...very, very small claims court?
"Your Honor, my client, in his role as Head of the Household, inherently has the right to the big piece of chicken."
Why aren't you bastards writing more about Ann Coulter. Are you scared, Atrios? Wanker.
How are we going to knock her down if we don't write about her all the time?
Thank you.
Wankers.
From where to you hail, Jeff?
I understand what you are saying Tena, but I am not for a draft as I have a 16 year old son that I want to have nothing to do with this shit.
billy b
exactly. all the parents like yourself would go berzerk and not one incumbant could vote for the draft. Imagine the mess in congress and Bush.
Nobody's said whether the combat boots and offical turrist uniforms were actually delivered.
Lime Rickey
I thought an official turrist uniform could just be pulled off the bed?
He wouldn't know a Federalist Paper if he were wiping his ass with it...
ProfWombat | 06.24.06 - 1:38 pm | #
Um, he is
Is it just me, or does Alberto Gonzales sound totally gay? Not that that is a bad thing, mind you....
Anonymous
I think it's been apparent for some time that this administration is bursting with closet cases, including possibly Il Duce.
Well they were doing suspicious stuff, like trying to clean up the neighborhood.
I understand what you are saying Tena, but I am not for a draft as I have a 16 year old son that I want to have nothing to do with this shit.
billy b | 06.24.06 - 1:33 pm | #
That's understandable. But if a draft could help to put an end to this nightmare...
I don't know. I don't have a kid. I'd like to think I'd support the draft regardless. But who knows...
Starting the draft would only imply that they really meant this fucking war in the first place!
It's only to make corporate profit kickbacks into their pockets, haven't you figured it out yet?
War Is A Racket - Smedley Butler, USMC
Try reading it sometime.
Brockville, Ontario.
.
Jeffraham
maybe olexicon?
Abu Gonzales Al-Dondi is effeminate, in that macho way Meskins can have, but he's not gay, i hope.
Phila - Yah, I have. I got sick on the way home from Italy, though I was already working on it about halfway through the trip.
Sorry to hear it...glad you're on the mend.
exactly. all the parents like yourself would go berzerk and not one incumbant could vote for the draft. Imagine the mess in congress and Bush.
plum p
This is true.
Billy b - I hear ya and I feel ya but the way things are now are not right. We've got grandmothers over there and people who have been all but enslaved due to stop/loss. That's how they are able to pull this off as long as they have.
We need the draft back. It is the only thing that will get people's attention, I'm afraid.
.glad you're on the mend.
YOu and me both. I got some flu bug and a couple of opportunistic infections on top of that.
I really was sick when I got home.
I'm waiting for Bush and FoxNews to tell us that we aren't safe because of our legal system.
It's the next logical step.
In case you hadn't noticed yet, thats why the right wingers are so vapidly after Jack Murtha - he comes from the Smedley Butler school of thought.
Wingers don't like Marines who think for themselves, and speak out of content, from the talking points from which they are given.
gimmeabreak: From where to you hail, Jeff?
Originally from the "city" where coal meets iron -- Ashland, KY. Now residing in Nashville, TN.
.
Draft scared the hell out of me until my lottery number was pulled.
Tena, glad you're feeling better. Last time I was here, you'd just gotten back from the trip. It's no wonder you got sick with a schedule like that! What were they thinking?
There's just no way to get really sick like a long flight!
Absolutely nothing new about this. For a while we called it 'American imperialism', and we were right to do so. Guantanamo Bay's existence as a military base is an anachronistic vestige of those times.
Here's a link to Smedley Butler on his Marine career:
http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
Abu Gonzales Al-Dondi is effeminate, in that macho way Meskins can have, but he's not gay, i hope.
plantsman, lowercase
"Chure, maing. I sleep with the guys some time, but that don' make me no maricon, joo know?"
plum p: maybe olexicon?
Could be. Is the humpty-one an Ontarian?
.
They probably weren't all that dangerous but, on the theory that even the blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while, round 'em up.
At Agitprop, lined up the wingnut sites here on the bank surveillance program - note that the WSJ hates America too!
his sister says her brother is Roman Catholic, and that his nickname since childhood was "Sunny."
There's a song in there somewhere.
Like Jose Padilla, these yahoos didn't actually do anything illegal. This is being arrested for thoughtcrime
I tend to agree with this, but, giving voice to criminal plans is indeed a crime because it sets the crime into motion. It is a little more than a thought crime but far less than a real crime. At least, more so than Padilla who was arrested for little more than a thought crime. Too bad we don't have the precogs, though.
right ... that was the critisism of Kerry by Bush in his campaign ... that he "merely" wanted the detecting and thwarting of terror in this country to be a law enforcement issue as opposed to a Halliburton Holiday of free for all deficit spending. Whether true or not (note to self: things they say are never true)we see from "their" alternative that making it a global super-market sweepstakes of shrink wrapped pallets of american "hunnert" dollar bills isnt doing much beyond the continued tail wagging the by now used to it dog.
Three quotes, for your edification:
"We're as puzzled as everyone else," said Howard Simon, the director of the Florida chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. "There's no weapons, no explosives, but this major announcement."
...
"This group was more aspirational than operational," said John Pistole, the FBI's deputy director.
...
Vice President Dick Cheney later hailed the arrests Friday afternoon at a fundraiser for an Illinois congressional candidate, calling the group a "very real threat.
"There are still people out there who are trying to do everything they can to kill Americans,' Cheney said. "We have to defend ourselves against that threat."
We are all guilty until proven innocent.
"Chure, maing. I sleep with the guys some time, but that don' make me no maricon, joo know?"
El Gato Negro would have been hard-pressed to do better!
So!
TOW - What were they thinking?
That's a good question. They definitely fucked up more than once.
Pompeii was another major fuck up. We went down by bus - it's almost 4 hours from Rome. We had exactly 90 minutes in Pompeii. It takes 3 days to even see it in a rudimentay fashion.
I was not happy about that at all. We barely saw anything.
BRING BACK THE DRAFT!
plum p
It's a tempting idea in that all those people with draft-age kids (and the kids themselves) who voted for Bush, cavalierly assuming that other people would have to pay the price for Bush's aggression, would finally get to taste the bitter poison that they helped unleash on the world. But it will never happen, not while Bush is president, anyway. Even Rove couldn't make the Red State rubes vote for that.
I tend to agree with this, but, giving voice to criminal plans is indeed a crime because it sets the crime into motion. It is a little more than a thought crime but far less than a real crime. At least, more so than Padilla who was arrested for little more than a thought crime. Too bad we don't have the precogs, though.
Snow, Stupid Grammar Nazi
From my link, above:
Some suggested that hinging the case on conspiracy charges robs a potential jury of the hard evidence of a crime.
"This is the sort of early strike strategy that will invite possible Bill of Rights violations," said Nathan Clark, an attorney for one of the defendants Rotschild Augustine. "If a group doesn't have the means than its less likely the government will have enough evidence to sustain the burden of proof."
As I said, when do they announce taht the courts are a threat to our national security?
Could be. Is the humpty-one an Ontarian?
Jeffraham
oui, i think so
rudimentary.
Sorry
An interesting notion occurred to me the other day. Given that a method for dealing with troop numbers is to use private contractors, how does that fit in the "Commander-In-Chief" role?
I wonder, if tested in a Constitional showdown, whether such contracted security forces would come not under ever-expanding umbrella of executive authority, but rather Congress, with its role of regulating interstate commerce?
his sister says her brother is Roman Catholic, and that his nickname since childhood was "Sunny."
There's a song in there somewhere.
Lime Rickey
Shawn Colvin's "A Few Small Repairs," or Paul Simon's "The Obvious Child".
Take your pick.
MSNBC did an investigation of LAX security and found the airport as porous as a swiss cheese.
Gates leading to the runways are unlocked and often wide open. Fences are in disrepair or completely deteriorated. The fuel supply for LAX has a link fence surrounding it but a dumpster parked right next to it makes vaulting the fence very easy and putting all that kerosene at risk for an explosive device.
When apprised of MSNBC's investigation did LAX get alarmed and promise to address the security breaches? Of course not.
They claimed that they just reviewed their security measures with the TSA and found that everything was in place and working!!!
It scares me to think that my son is flying out of that place on Friday!!!
Through The Looking Glass, as distorted by Dick Cheney.
As I commented elsewhere, it seems that fear and stupidity prevents We the Sheeple from seeing the very existence of the Department of Homeland Security and our intrepid law enforcement "success stories" in the GWOT as top-down enterprises in massive fraud and deception.
So I'm not sure that highly-touted arrests of hapless lunatic-fringers will be seen through as readily by the Yahoo masses as it is by those of us with two brain cells to rub together.
The Yahoos, encouraged as always by the corporate media, may well be mollified by the fallback position: even if these guys prove to be bumbling looney-tunes, it's still a "win" in the GWOT because, 1.) even seemingly hapless amateurs and lunatics can succeed in their mission, e.g. the nuts who shot Garfield and RFK and Reagan and the Pope, and 2.) it shows the public at large that we are taking care of bidness.
This is exactly the kind of thinking that US attorneys glibly expound, except maybe for Fitz-- and, frankly, I'm not so sure about him any more, either.
Given that a method for dealing with troop numbers is to use private contractors, how does that fit in the "Commander-In-Chief" role?
That position has already been outsourced to the former CEO of Halliburton.
You are not supposed to be prosecuted strictly for your intent in this country. A crime requires two elements. Intent is only one of them.
At Agitprop, lined up the wingnut sites here on the bank surveillance program - note that the WSJ hates America too!
blogenfreude
Well, it's the government; trust them.
I wonder, if tested in a Constitional showdown, whether such contracted security forces would come not under ever-expanding umbrella of executive authority, but rather Congress, with its role of regulating interstate commerce?
Congress controls the purse strings. Or allegedly it still does.
It scares me to think that my son is flying out of that place on Friday!!!
Rudy
I sympathize, but I also feel really confident that terrorists are not going to hijack another plane anytime soon. Been there, done that.
They aren't going to repeat it now.
I learned that a conspiracy conviction required "an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy."
But I was never a very good law student.
Tena, that's horrible. If I ever go to Italy, I'll get the name of the tour group to make sure I don't use them.
As I said, when do they announce taht the courts are a threat to our national security?
When the NSA, phone company cases start discovery motions. 'Round October. I reckon.
As the Department of Homeland Security devolves ever further into the Stasi, Skeletor holds conclaves
with folks from TV's "24" at the American Enterprise Institute. Can't make this stuff up.
I have a son of draft age. I know they military would like to get their hooks in him. I was the one who was on this board last year asking for help on how to get the USMC and USArmy off his back. (we were getting at least a phone call a day from the recuiters).
Hell no, I'm not in favor of the draft. Are you people daft?
You are not supposed to be prosecuted strictly for your intent in this country. A crime requires two elements. Intent is only one of them.
Tena
What little I remember from CrimLaw is that conspiracy is an inchoate crime.
This one's beginning to sound so inchoate it's almost non-existent. Even the FBI's deputy director says: "This group was more aspirational than operational." It doesn't sound like there's enough to hang a case on, here.
Methinks the government is counting on their inability to hire defense counsel.
You are not supposed to be prosecuted strictly for your intent in this country. A crime requires two elements. Intent is only one of them.
Tena | Homepage | 06.24.06 - 1:49 pm | #
Absolutely, Tena. That's what's scary to me. All of us here right now would be convicted of badthink. Who among us has not wished bodily harm on the assholes in power?
We are all guilty until proven innocent.
Rmj, Uncredentialed
cept scooter Rmj ... gotta remember Shoot 'em in the face just recently said Libby was had the finest ass ...er I mean was the finest man he ever knew. and that above all else scooper was innocent until pardoned er ... proven guilty.
Robert - are you still there? Why are you mad at me?
I've tried to talk to you here since I got back online and you haven't acknowledged that I'm even alive.
That's not like you - what did I do to offend?
They aren't going to repeat it now.
Tena
i agree (again!) with Tena. next attcks will be low-fi, like train ou subway stations. easier to organized, less training needed. Like in London or Madrid
It is an inchoate crime, but there has to be something going on more than a group of guys talking about doing something and hoping a terrorist group will take them seriously. That's not enough.
I learned that a conspiracy conviction required "an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy."
But I was never a very good law student.
SteveLG
They bought uniforms!!!!!
Through all the haze and fog of blurry, accusatory rhetoric, one fact must not be neglected: No terrorist attacks in this country since 9/11.
London, Spain, Saudi Arabia all had theor WORST Al Queda attacks since then, but not the USA. Surely, attacks were planned and foiled.
The job theBush Administration has done in preventing a terror attack has clearly surpassed that of European governments.
That lauditory fact deserves recognition on this board!
The Liberty City seven will be getting hots and cots for some time.
Hell no, I'm not in favor of the draft. Are you people daft?
I have a 24 year old daughter also. Until now, it didn't dawn on me that she would be eligible for Selective Service also. And note that Boots is the first in this country's history to send women into combat to get killed.
We'll have to think of a better way to stop this war than reinstitution of the draft.
Robert - are you still there? Why are you mad at me?
I've tried to talk to you here since I got back online and you haven't acknowledged that I'm even alive.
That's not like you - what did I do to offend?
Tena
Actually, I've been bouncing in and out and missed the personal missives in all the static.
These comments are a lousy way to communicate.
As for conspiracy, I agree with you. As I was saying, this one sounds so inchoate, I don't think there's any there there.
The government must be counting on incompetent court-appointed counsel (been there, done that; believe me, it happens. Was appointed to defend a gun-possession by felon case, once. Had no idea what I was doing, nor did the "lead" attorney. We were both civil lawyers, not crim. practitioners.)
TCB: perhaps, but the fight we took over there has gotten very messy.
plantsman: As the Department of Homeland Security devolves ever further into the Stasi, Skeletor holds conclaves
with folks from TV's "24" at the American Enterprise Institute. Can't make this stuff up.
With Limbaugh hosting! Loved this quote:
Later, Limbaugh went back to the program's creation, saying: "You got lucky with 9/11 happening shortly after the show started." He quickly stopped himself, saying: "Sorry — not got lucky — bad choice of words."
.
Hell no, I'm not in favor of the draft. Are you people daft?
Doug
Well, we're more for the idea on Them trying to get the draft back than the draft itself
Absolutely, Tena. That's what's scary to me. All of us here right now would be convicted of badthink. Who among us has not wished bodily harm on the assholes in power?
gimmeabreak
and it's making its way into the media. noron odonnell last night had an ex-gitmo detainee on, followed by a former dod hack. noron was particularly agitated that the former detainee had called bush a 'terrorist' and her comment to the dod hack was 'what's someone like that doing on the streets of london'...
TCB - enlist or shut the fuck up.
Readers of Counterpunch knew as soon as they heard it what had happened here; it is almost exactly the same as another case in California where a paid government informant -- a man whose lifestyle depends on finding arrest-worthy people -- tried to screw two Pakistani immigrants. Both told fanciful, contradictory tales of a variously-located single alQayda base in Pakistan and also (the same base) in America, atop a mountain but also under the ground. The Florida story as told by that far leftist stalwart CBC News sounds exactly alike, with the paid informant supplying a phony oath and trying to push his "friends" further toward careless gestures no real terrorist would attempt. This is also what happened in Toronto and London. Paid informants are good for only one thing, their own profits. They always turn out this way. The men in Florida are totally innocent of anything serious and the time spent persecuting them is time donated in a wrapped Faberge box to the real murderers.
Tena, that's horrible. If I ever go to Italy, I'll get the name of the tour group to make sure I don't use them.
TheOtherWA
Let me explain it - it wasn't the Italian group. Our guide, Niccola, was getting annoyed with the American tour company who put it together because time was too short.
The Italian company was fabulous. IT was the American tour company that organized the trip - that's who is to blame.
Nice one, Jeffraham.
Tena,
I'm not so concerned about another airliner hijacking, but with easy access to the runways, terrorists or just plain crazies, can drive right out there and attack or damage aircraft that is taking off or landing.
The MSNBC reporters were able to move about the airport at will with little or no obstructions or security forces to counter.
Not a good situation and I thought that 9/11 was supposed to "change everything?" Or was that just another Bushboy lie?
and it's making its way into the media. noron odonnell last night had an ex-gitmo detainee on, followed by a former dod hack. noron was particularly agitated that the former detainee had called bush a 'terrorist' and her comment to the dod hack was 'what's someone like that doing on the streets of london'...
linda
Rude statements are proof of terrorist tendencies which indicate a possible conspiracy to harm the US or its interests.
The entire world is guilty until proven innocent! Lock 'em all up!
Looks like I'm wrong about the "overt act" requirement. Wikipedia sez:
In United States v. Shabani, 513 U.S. 10 (1994) the United States Supreme Court ruled: U.S. Congress intended to adopt the common law definition of conspiracy, which does not make the doing of any act other than the act of conspiring a condition of liability" at least in so far as to establish a violation of a narcotics conspiracy under 21 U.S.C. § 846. Therefore, the Government need not prove the commission of any overt acts in furtherance of those narcotics conspiracies prohibited by 21 U.S.C. § 846. The Shabani case illustrates that it is a matter of legislative prerogative whether to require an overt step, or not to require an overt step in any conspiracy statute. The court compares the need to prove an overt step to be criminally liable under the conspiracy provision of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970, while there is no such requirement under 21 U.S.C. § 846.
The Supreme Court pointed out that common law did not require proof of an overt step, and the need to prove it for a federal conspiracy conviction requires Congress to specifically require proof of an overt step to accomplish the conspiracy. It is a legislative choice on a statute by statute basis.
Surely, attacks were planned and foiled.
Why, surely? We should be discussing your irrelevant speculation why? And you continually miss the fact the we were attacked on Sept 11. How does this escape you?
I thought we were fighting them over there so we didn't have to fight them over here. If that is true, then how could they be over here if our plan is working? Which is it dumbfuck?
Or was that just another Bushboy lie?
Yes
right you are linda. That DoD-bot was a piece of scary work, wasn't he?
RMJ- They've been counting on that all along then, because the government has certainly been incompetent as shit in prosecuting any fucking terrorists under this DOJ.
They are just a joke, frankly.
I'm sorry you are kind of down on the internet as a communications medium. I still love it. But I'm glad you aren't upset with me.
The men in Florida are totally innocent of anything serious and the time spent persecuting them is time donated in a wrapped Faberge box to the real murderers.
k&y
But...they bought shoes!!!!!
Let's see, an editorial in the WSJ on Wednesday calling for blowing up a North Korean missile on the launchpad-written by two former members of Democratic administrations-and on Thursday we get hinky turrist arrests.
See? No more talk from Dems being strong on defense! Like magic it is.
(not that I'm going to debate the "blow it up on the pad" idea, but it was a strong message and the Bush regime freaked and over reacted, again.)
Surely, attacks were planned and foiled.
Just as surely there is no reason for you to prove you've ever had sex with a sentient organism.
But...they bought shoes!!!!!
Rmj, Uncredentialed
Were they Nikes?
Homer: Yep, the bear patrol is sure doing a great job at keeping bears away!
Lisa: Dad, your logic is flawed.
Homer: Hehe, thanks.
Lisa: Dad, this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, that's silly!
Lisa: Do you see any tigers around?
Homer: How much does the rock cost?!
-- Dan Castellaneta and Yeardley Smith, The Simpsons
SteveLG - yes, but usually there is something along the lines of "manner and means" to carry out what is the subject of the alleged conspiracy. Otherwise, those statutes are overly broad. In some cases they are - RICO is classic for being overly broad.
But there has to be something besides talking about it. Manner and means of actually doing something is one of the things that shows up in state statutes on conspiracy.
"Well, we're more for the idea on Them trying to get the draft back than the draft itself"
Bad strategy. With the current congress, I can't guarantee what would happened if a draft amendment would be introduced by anyone but Rangel (there is one by him floating in the current session)
My personal experience with the "Moors" (as the Miami men are supposed to be connected to) - are not an Islamic group, but more of a gang type orgnanization. My close to six years working at the prison, found that many of the Moors kept Holy Qu`rans, however never even came close to following the precipts of the religion.
I'm sorry you are kind of down on the internet as a communications medium. I still love it. But I'm glad you aren't upset with me.
Tena
Not down on it; just easy to miss messages here (I seldom scroll back very far, or read very carefully).
Looks like I'm wrong about the "overt act" requirement. Wikipedia sez:
In theory maybe. But a prosecutor is going to want the most tangible of overt acts at trial. Paying someone to kill your spouse, or giving them a gun, is much better than just asking them to do it even if asking is enough to be charged with the crime.
The Clueless Seven; or
Dog's Day Afternoon Goes to Miami.
I'd be good in it.
Ann Coulter is so old, her vagina wears dentures.
I'll be here all week...
Who among us has not wished bodily harm on the assholes in power?
gimmeabreak
we all have our death fantasies
Sex with a sentient organism? What about teledildonics?
That DoD-bot was a piece of scary work, wasn't he?
plantsman, lowercase
yes he was. did you also catch his comment that he had no intention of seeing The Road to Guantanamo because he didn't know what that money would go to support (HINT HINT). truly an ugly piece of work.
This particular group of "terrorists" was actually a gang of mildly insane homeless men who would've been institutionalized had it not been for Ronald Reagan and the late '60s fashion of populating our streets with cop-shooting nutcases.
linda,
Noron O'Donnell is a moron.
She actually thinks the US is entitled to invade anywhere in the world that a fool like Bushboy deems necessary.
She probably also thinks that Iraq becoming a democracy is right around the corner.
Yeah....right!
Surely, attacks were planned and foiled.
Why, surely? We should be discussing your irrelevant speculation why? And you continually miss the fact the we were attacked on Sept 11. How does this escape you?
We're from the government. Trust us.
(Remember when that was meant ironically, as a critique of liberals and the government? And now the same people use it sans irony.
Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?)
Nothing new about government misuse of conspiracy law, either. Labor organizers were often targeted. Clarence Darrow was appalled by conspiracy law; he'd seen it used so often as an instrument of oppression rather than justice...
Snow writes:
"I thought we were fighting them over there so we didn't have to fight them over here. If that is true, then how could they be over here if our plan is working? Which is it dumbfuck?"
You are easily confused, aren't you? One does not negate the other. Yes, "we" are fighting them over there, and here.
But you, Snow, with your divisive rhetoric, disdain and contempt for our elected leaders, you, sir, ought not invoke use of the word "we" in connection with anything the Bush Adminstration has accomplished.
I'm not sure what to think...A group of people talking trash about blowing things up is one thing, but to have the feds install an informant that may have pushed them on to do more is something else. They didn't even have a camera...the informant had to provide them with a digital camera to photograph "targets".
The job theBush Administration has done in preventing a terror attack has clearly surpassed that of European governments.
Please. The idiots have bankrupted the country and decimated the military while sitting on their asses doing nothing but giving pep talks to themselves and half-wit dumbasses like you that believe every single lie the bastards care to tell.
You think that all of this wasn't part of bin Laden's plan? You are the type of idiot that Krushchev was speaking of when he said the US would be taken without a shot being fired.
Yes, "we" are fighting them over there, and here.
Who's this "we", you and the lice on your head?
Rmj: Not down on it; just easy to miss messages here (I seldom scroll back very far, or read very carefully).
Even worse is that Haloscan't still inserts comments out of order, all the time. I'll refresh, scroll up to get to where I left off, and find several comments that weren't there the last time I refreshed.
.
She probably also thinks that Iraq becoming a democracy is right around the corner.
rudy,
just give it another six months ...
contempt for our elected leaders,
So it's wrong to display contempt for elected leaders, huh?
Duly noted.
The government, since 9/11, has had between 500 and 1000 US residents tapped at any one time. Of the thousands of US residents who were tapped by the government, one was arrested. For talking to someone about cutting down the Brooklyn Bridge with a blowtorch.
You are not supposed to be prosecuted strictly for your intent in this country. A crime requires two elements. Intent is only one of them.
Tena - 1:49 pm
Tena, Tena, Tena-- that is such a pre-9/11 idea!
Don't you know there's a war on?
We're from the government. Trust us.
This might be the only thing positive to come out of the years since 2000. Maybe citizens will be suspicious of their elected officials and those who do the news.
"we" are American citizens here, to a large degree, TCB. Things done on our dime and in our names
include us as surely as they do you.
Phila - get with the North Korean program here. It's Dear Leader, and we must love every hair on the pissant's balls, according to the brainless fuckwits who worship him as Little Tin God.
Who's this "we" -
He and the gerbil crawling up his ass.
Hardball had a mindless ditz on in place of Tweety, interviewing Michael Winterbottom. He had his way with her like the new global warming mutated breed of hurricanes wrecks a city.
She: Well, you know, Bush has said he wants to actually close Gitmo down.
Michael: Oh, good, why doesn't he then?
Later, she turned to the other guy, gracefully conceding that he wasn't a terrorist but demanding he admit some of the imprisoned were "bad bad people" (she literally repeated the adjective "bad" like a child). He did not point out that the logic of such a defense would allow us to annihilate every black, Jewish, Armenian or whatever person, because after all some of the people we'd be killing would statistically have to be criminals.
As usual, when it comes to anything MidEastern Juan Cole, a man who knows and UNDRSTANDS the region and all its complexities, gives a clear and honest take on these terifying Miami terrorists.
http://www.juancole.com/
One can only hope they don't spend the rest of their lives in an American gulag out of political necessity. Stalin and his communists have found modern day brethern in Bush and his republicans.
Scarboy just had a big ad on MSNBC that his guest next week is none other than Annthrax Coulter.
The ad showed her making her usually outrageous comments and infuriating lies. They even use the metaphor of a fuse being lit so those who view the Scarboy/Coulter exchange can expect an explosion!
All of this must titillate and thrill the demented Annthrax. It also sells her books and makes her richer.
She should be ignored, including any TV program on which she appears.
(Remember when that was meant ironically, as a critique of liberals and the government? And now the same people use it sans irony.
Ah yes. Privacy concerns as related to black helicopters. But only when Clinton himself was in the cockpit.
It's as if America is the frog and Bush is the water bug.
Little Brother - Alas, my thinking is hopelessly stuck back in the democracy I used to live in and for some reason I cannot get my brain and my heart to let go of the constitution I fell in love with.
The poor thing is on life-support, but still I beg it to breathe.
contempt for our elected leaders,
So it's wrong to display contempt for elected leaders, huh?
Duly noted.
Phila
Except Hillary. Or Ted Kennedy or John Kerry...
June 22 2004
In a chance meeting between Vice-President Dick Cheney and Senator Patrick Leahy, the pair argue about Halliburton's no-bid Iraq contracts. The "frank exchange of views" ends, Cheney says this to Leahy: Fuck yourself! Cheney's spokesman does not deny the VP dropped the f-bomb.
Jacob's bad luck: Is it . . . Satan?
By Robert Gehrke
The Salt Lake Tribune
As if beating a five-term congressman wasn't hard enough, John Jacob said he has another foe working against him: the devil. "There's another force that wants to keep us from going to Washington, D.C.," Jacob said. "It's the devil is what it is. I don't want you to print that, but it feels like that's what it is."
Jacob said Thursday that since he decided to run for Congress against Rep. Chris Cannon, Satan has bollixed his business deals, preventing him from putting as much money into the race as he had hoped.
Numerous business deals he had lined up have
been delayed, freezing money he was counting on to finance his race.
"You know, you plan, you organize, you put your budget together and when you have 10 things fall through, not just one, there's some other, something else that is happening," Jacob said.
Asked if he actually believed that "something else" was indeed Satan, Jacob said: "I don't know who else it would be if it wasn't him. Now when that gets out in the paper, I'm going to be one of the screw-loose people."
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3970622...0622?
source=rss
Brother Sunny, Brother Sunni . . .
Wordsworth and Coleridge were once investigated as French spies because they were overheard talking about Spinoza, which someone heard as codename "Spy Nosy."
I think that may be a true story.
But you, Snow, with your divisive rhetoric, disdain and contempt for our elected leaders, you, sir, ought not invoke use of the word "we" in connection with anything the Bush Adminstration has accomplished.
Bill Clinton, dumbfuck. Contemplate the disdain and contempt displayed to that elected leader. Who also had no terrorist attacks in America during his two years in office. No divisive rhetoric involved, huh?
But you're right. I shouldn't use we. You have never done a damn thing for your country.
Watching Michael Winterbottom pummel that dalek bitch, we could not help recalling Harvey Milk destroy some stupid crossworshippers in a televised debate. These people have nothing to say, so following Cicero's advice (or was it Tullius'?) they abuse the plaintiff.
Snow, two words, Shoe Bomber.
Or, perhaps you prefer Jose Padilla.
Al Zarkowi???
Take your pick, but innocent lives were saved.
And, not one terrorist attack.
I would say the mouse trap seems to be working. As they say, if it ain't broken ....
Between this and clitoral and vaginal mutilation, African patriarchy must be utterly and violently destroyed
BBC | Submitted by: studgerbil
"A nationwide campaign is under way in Cameroon to discourage the widespread practice of breast ironing. This involves pounding and massaging the developing breasts of young girls with hot objects to try to make them disappear."
[I've posted the following here countless times, but it bears repeating as the genuine article of original, vital American democratic doctrine that seems to be lost by the trolls.]
"You see my kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions or its office-holders. The country is the real thing, the substantial thing, the eternal thing; it is the thing to watch over, and care for, and be loyal to; institutions are extraneous, they are its mere clothing, and clothing can wear out, become ragged, cease to be comfortable, cease to protect the body from winter, disease, and death. To be loyal to rags, to shout for rags, to worship rags, to die for rags--that is a loyalty of unreason, it is pure animal; it belongs to monarchy, was invented by monarchy; let monarchy keep it."
-- Mark Twain A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
plum p,
These people really really are batshit crazy, aren't they? It's as if we should start producing straightjakcets morning, noon, and night.
And, not one terrorist attack.
Other than the World Trade Center. And the Pentagon.
And the anthrax mailer.
And the D.C. snipers.
.
Hey moonbats,
Listening to the Dixie Chicks new CD, doing laundry and cleaning the crib.
It's a beautiful afternoon here in the Great Lakes State.
One Thousand Rats
San Francisco Chronicle | Submitted by: Popein
"Petaluma animal control workers expected to find a horde of cats when they knocked on the door of a 67-year-old man whose neighbor complained of a stench. Instead, they stumbled onto a scene straight out of the movie Willard."
One does not negate the other. Yes, "we" are fighting them over there, and here.
And admittedly, I am a dunbass. Please enlighten me as to how "we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here" includes fighting them over fucking here.
See, I am such a dumbass, I cannot even spell dumbass.
Snow, two words, Shoe Bomber.
Yo, Chili Krushchev, the feds had nothing to do with taking down the shoe bomber. That was the passengers on the plane.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore | 06.24.06 - 2:13 pm |
Vicki, how were you about a half week ago in those storms? Aren't you by Ann Arbor?
And, not one terrorist attack.
Well, except for, you know. That one that no one anticipated. You know. The one that, well, um, brought down the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon. There was that one.
In fact it is hard to believe the Show Bomber was a serious threat.
This involves pounding and massaging the developing breasts of young girls with hot objects to try to make them disappear."
k&y
that is atrocious. I have never heard of that before. I'm speechless
Hecate: yes, i don't have to sell my soul, he's already in me
Vicki: did you miss Al Gore on Letterman last night?
k&y,
In Grand Rapids. We didn't get those storms - Barndog did, though, and I'm pretty sure pie was in the thick of it.
Anonymous | 06.24.06 - 2:08 pm | #
yes, he's right, must read juan cole link for the real skinny on these dudes.
as one who has seen the crushing poverty, and violent crime that liberty city is, i agree whole heartedly that this band of clowns is the least of americas' problems in that neck of the woods.
shoes and boots indeed.
i'm not even buying the terrorist thing, at the very least it's been ridiculously overamped. well, i guess that's obvious.
Tell me what a patriot looks like. This is what a patriot looks like.
Vicki: did you miss Al Gore on Letterman last night?
plum p
plum p, yes, I did. I was hoping Atrios would You Tube it. 
I went to bed early last night - long week, I needed to take it easy.
Witness the power of my Adidas, bitches!!
Hecate: yes, i don't have to sell my soul, he's already in me
A Stone Roses reference out of the bleu!
A Stone Roses reference out of the bleu!
Jay C
oui! I'm happy somebody got it
Snow writes: "Please enlighten me."
If Zarkowi, second most powerful and influential Al Queda leader was bogged down in Iraq, he was not expending energy trying to inliftrate America. Now, he has been eliminated (and with that, the threat to innocent Iraqis and US troops).
Fighting Al Queda in Iraq surely doesn't eliminate the US domestic terror threat, but Al Zarkowi is proof that it has lessened it.
Snow writes: "Please enlighten me."
If Zarkowi, second most powerful and influential Al Queda leader was bogged down in Iraq, he was not expending energy trying to inliftrate America. Now, he has been eliminated (and with that, the threat to innocent Iraqis and US troops).
Fighting Al Queda in Iraq surely doesn't eliminate the US domestic terror threat, but Al Zarkowi is proof that it has lessened it.
I would say the mouse trap seems to be working. As they say, if it ain't broken ....
TexasChiliBean
Why should terrorist make it a priority to attack here in the USA again anytime soon, when Bushboy has made it a hell of lot easier to get their jihadist rocks off by blowing up Americans in Iraq?
And for those dimwits who think that the war in Iraq is making us safer, just consider if Spain or England would agree, since they've had terrorist attacks after they joined "the war on terror" in Iraq.
It is also estimated that the insurgent forces in Iraq number about 20,000 and that the worldwide Muslim community numbers nearly 1.5 billion.
Does anyone in their right mind think terrorist couldn't put together another cell of 20 or 30 "martyrs" to attack NYC or Washington with some nasty devices?
Or that they aren't here already?
Okay, I'm about to nuke some coffee, so WiFi outage in 5... 4... 3...
.
sheets
oui! I'm happy somebody got it
plum p
By pure chance- I had to cancel some plans last night, so out of boredom I went through my catalogue of Brit music from a certain era- Stone Roses, My Bloody Valentine, etc. Atypical happy friday night stuff, but good tunes.
Republicans are patriots when the price is right.
If Zarkowi, second most powerful and influential Al Queda leader was bogged down in Iraq, he was not expending energy trying to inliftrate America. Now, he has been eliminated (and with that, the threat to innocent Iraqis and US troops).
God, you are a stupid motherfucker. Zarkawi was a PR creation of the Boots Regime. He was one of many. He's been replaced.
Answer this: What say you about the US soldiers killed this week by Iraqi army personnel?
The poor thing is on life-support, but still I beg it to breathe.
Tena - 2:09 pm
Indeed, we are both hovering at the bedside of our moribund democratic republic, its collective brain all but liquefied, as it slowly descends into death. 
If only Dr. Frist were here!
PS: More Kos-fuffle owls, of marginal interest to YHN.
By pure chance- I had to cancel some plans last night, so out of boredom I went through my catalogue of Brit music from a certain era- Stone Roses, My Bloody Valentine, etc. Atypical happy friday night stuff, but good tunes.
Jay C.
do you know i have my own indie british pop music radio show? I think you do, they repaired the Real Audio feed. www.cibl.cam.org. on tuesdays at 10pm. I played the track recently. I love my Roses!
I'm not sure what to think...A group of people talking trash about blowing things up is one thing, but to have the feds install an informant that may have pushed them on to do more is something else.
I didn't read below this comment, so if someone beat me to this, sorry, but there's a name for that:
Entrapment.
Sounds to me like they're a gang of nutcases that probably needed to be stopped because even nutcases can do real damage. The FBI learned about them when they said they wanted to contact Al Quada to blow up buildings or some bullshit. So why not arrange one meeting with "al quada" when they show up they're all busted. End of story. why drag it out over all this time with all this ellaborate entrapment.
Rover or some other evil Gooper prick thinks up some dumbass slogan or specious reason why the Iraq war is "justified" or serving some useful purpose and it's put out to the Gooper faithful by the MSM and their various rightwingnut punditocracy.
So they say that the war in Iraq is preventing attacks on America, when most terrorist experts like Richard Clarke, think the war is increasing the liklihood of domestic attacks.
The conclusion that there haven't been any attacks in America since 9/11 means only that the terrorists haven't gotten around to it yet.
America is too target rich and too vulnerable to ignore for much longer.
And it only cost us another 3000 lives to just get rid of one fucking terrorist - Zarkawi.
The price is too goddamned high, you nitwit. We could have done the right thing and used the DOJ to go after the terrorists - they are criminals.
But nooooo - we dignified their cause by going to war with them.
Texaschiliass - you are too fucking stupid to breathe.
"Sunni, yesterday my life was filled with rain
Sunni, you smiled at me and really eased the pain
Oh, the dark days are done
The bright days are here
My sunny one shines so sincere
Sunni one so true
I love you"
"Sunni, thank you for that sunshine bouquet
Sunni, thank you for the love you brought my way
You gave to me your all and all
Now I feel ten feet tall
Sunni one so true
I love you."
"Sunni, thank you for the truth you let me see
Sunni, thank you for the facts from a to z
My life was torn like windblown sand
And then a rock was formed when we held hands
Sunni one so true
I love you"
but Al Zarkowi is proof that it has lessened it.
That is rich. Except Zarqawi was no threat to us inside the US at any time in his brief and miserable life. And I never heard that we were fighting Zarqawi over there so we didn't have to fight Zarqawi over here. It is terrorists we are fighting over there so we don't have to fight terrorists over here. But apparently that ain't working out so well. So, if we are fighting them over there and over here . . . what does Iraq have to do with this?
"Sunni, thank for that smile upon your face
Sunni, thank you for that gleam that flows with grace
Youre my spark of natures fire
Youre my sweet complete desire
Sunni one so true
I love you."
"Sunni, yesterday my life was filled with rain
Sunni, you smiled at me and really eased the pain
The dark days are done
The bright days are here
My sunny one shines so sincere
Sunni one so true
Sunni one so true
Sunni one so true
I love you"
Hey -- mabe they meant Soon Yi!
Woody married a terrorist!!!!!!
I was ... slippin' into darkness .. as they took my friend away
you know ... he loved to drink good whiskey ... while barkin' at the moon
What gets me is that the reason for the early arrest was,in part, due to the fact that many members were rethinking what they were doing and were backing off. I have to wonder how much of the "radicalizing" was done by the informant and the FBI handler.
"Sounds to me like they're a gang of nutcases that probably needed to be stopped because even nutcases can do real damage."
Oh Please!!!
Well, we surely do have a lot of "nutcases" already in Murkin prisons. It might be a good thing to think about having a national healthcare system that could give these folks some medical care instead of allowing this asshole gub'mint to have more scapegoats. If as you say, now we can lock 'em up before they do anything. This is just more lies and bullshit for the giggling murderers.
To be perfectly fair, I grew up in that area, and every time someone was caught trying to be a gangsta killa or was stopped with lethal force during a robbery, the family would ALWAYS claim that they were a Good Boy and were Turning Their Life Around. Every. Single. Freaking. Time. Like the same blindness that makes Republicans ignore Bush crimes. So take the family claims with a grain of salt.
OK, Sunni Boy, climb upon my knee and tell me about this gang that couldn't conspire straight.
But that doesn't mean the Atrios crowd should belittle their impulses.
Ridicule Gonzales, Mueller and their associates if you may, but don't let Short-Kimmel lassitude affect the need to keep an eye on the ramparts.
Alberto Gharib is saying he can now come after you for thought crimes.
Intent fueled by the informant? Isn't that a hint of entrapment? The initial headlines read "Black Muslims". If Sunny is indeed Catholic, this will be a big stink bomb.
Or, should be. There will be those who applaud thought policing.
oh look at me I;m aspiring to blow up the united states although i have no actuality!
shooot me in the head because i;'nm a threat
oh puke
and why is there a fuking ad at the top of this page?
I swear I will never never never never never never never never
post here again if there is a fuking ad at the top of the page
GOOD NEWS TO ALL!
I expect
I realize I'm getting in on this thread kinda late, but I've had some serious thoughts about this group.
At first, I was quite interested to hear about this so called "plot" and to learn more about the "perps". When I saw the first interviews on CNN and the rest of the MSM the next day, I quickly realized there were some serious misinterpretations of the kind of English these people were speaking. These folks are obviously poor and poorly educated and thus, have extreme difficulties in expressing themselves intellegently to some of us. For obvious reasons, mainly their station in life, they are a frustrated group. Most appear homeless, or one step from it, but have seem to have found a sense of hope and salvation in a religious tenent that has some local appeal. Juan Cole recently had some keen insight to this point, but even he misinterpreted their path of identity, as did the MSM, as "the Seas of David". The correct interpretation is The Seeds of David. Google the Seeds of David and you'll quickly find a number of links to the basic tenents which are all about the struggles and trials in the face of oppression and adversity, religious as well as political, in order to overcome them all and rise to power and greatness.
Misinterpreting Sunny as Sunni further sterotypes this group.
Considering that the American Dream has left these guys behind a long time ago, I can understand that they might have some legitimate grievenaces, but I can't wait to see how the MSM and Executive Enforcement Teams further twist and misinterprete language for their own cause.
The Seeds of David might probably have a legitimate beef and might probably wanted to take some kind of action against the evils they saw impacting them, but so it seems does the likes of Coulter, Limbaugh, and Rush. All have conspired; the latter have even been publicly vocal about their brand of violent retribution. The former, however, were obvioulsy suckered-in by a sting operation.
Interesting.
Wear a star of David, and call yourselves the Seas of David and your beliefs are a mix of Christian and Muslim. Is it politically incorrect to include the 1st major monotheistic religion of the area of which Christian and Islam are deriviative despite using that religion's core symbols?
=my2c
The groups leader is Clarence Page- see how he bombed Bill O' Falafalooey,
people who believe in the flypaper theory have maggots in the head, Norah O'Donnell must be good in the sack because she sure ain't good on a news program. It's been proven that Osama was last seen at the Miami Heat-Dallas Maverick game telling his friend Cuban the game was rigged against him. Ricky Santiless has been promised a tv show on Fox "Don't Get Your Bloomers in a Knot !"
This is a test case for the administration. Kind of like in Germany in WWII. Start with the people you think no one will defend. Ummm in this case, black, ooooh dred locks, dirt poor, strange religious rites and an illegal from Haiti. Who's gonna complain if the govt. hauls these kids off. After all if you can establish that it's an act of terror to even think about certain things you've cleared the way to go after other people who have ideas that are unacceptable to the govt. It's just a test of what the society is willing to tolerate in the post 9/11 era. Will there be the proper scrutiny and oversight? It seems that even the media is having a hard time swallowing this exaggerated nonsense.
It is despicable when the govt. brings its massive weight against those in the least position to defend against it. Even if these were trash talken and thinking kids, what has befallen them seams hugely out of proportion to anything they actually did or had the capacity to do. Alberto Gonzales just made a huge ass of himself by dignifying this mess.
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