I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
They dont know what they are talking about.
Take the time to do some research, dont just spout out the latest flash or youtube video you see.
Here is a real you tube video on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l...h?
v=lctfUWnlo4I
Secundo?
The biggest 9/11 conspiracy theorists are the lunatics in the administration who kept pushing an Iraq/9/11 connection and a news media who have failed to communicate to large numbers of the American people that Saddam Hussein was not, in fact, behind 9/11.
A-fucking-men!!!
Not to mention the fact that Saddam Hussein wasn't exactly enamored with OBL.
But they both talk funny! Bush ran for President intending to go to war with as much of the Arab world as he could.
It was so fucking obvious at the time that the Onion did a classic piece on it, which was funny only because it was true.
But the media, Satan praise them, mock the truth and give credence to lies.
Then they act SHOCKED when polls show the American people are misinformed on any number of issues related to 9-11 and Bush's War on Terra.
Crikey!
Time for an oldie but goodie from Tom Tomorrow.
Clenis owls
Not that I include Iran in the Arab world.
Our illustrious Pres isn't the only one who's CON-fident, ya know.
I sent the following message to ABC this morning. Kind of blunt at the end, but ended up using exactly the 500 character limit allowed.
"9/11 was national tradgedy that affected ALL Americans deeply - and 5 years later is still a wound that will take some time to heal.
As such, I find it extremely troubling that ABC/Disney sees fit to air "Path to 9/11".
This "FICTIONALIZED" account serves no purpose other than muddying the historical facts and further dividing this country.
My friend and I watch Charles "Charlie" Gibson and ABC News every weeknight - it's a quality broadcast. But your pursuit of corp profits = no more!"
All films concerning events of the late 20th and early 21st centuries with the title "The Path To..." should open with The Triumph of the Will.
A dkos diarist (now on rec list) made an excellent case that the defamation suits may cost Disney
upto a billion dollars. This weekend is shit in pants time for Disney execs and lawyers.
My own feeling is that ABC will do heavy duty edits this weekend and throw out all objectional parts, show it to Clinton/Dem lawyers and some participants, get their okay
and show it. But then Wapo's Tom Shales says - even cinematographically, the drama is awful. He opens his column thusly: " Factually shaky, politically inflammatory and photographically a mess...".
He started with that and did not relent. Sentence after sentence, he was just brutal.
Like this for example...
In an attempt to layer a coat of visual veracity over the film, it's shot in the style of some news footage -- the hand-held camera jerking, bouncing, panning wildly. Faces are framed in absurdly intense close-up, so intense it's not always easy to tell whom you're looking at. The gratuitous camera movement and the insistence on reducing people to eyes or noses or mouths become oppressive after only two hours, much less five. This isn't cinematography; it's vivisection.
I guess his goal was to get the even rightwingers away from ABC tomorrow.
Was never interested in watching this TV event to begin with so haven't followed the info all that much. That said, I'm sure none who is protesting this now thought the protests of the right against the CBS mini-series on Reagan a few years ago were legit either. No?
You are rather arrogant Duncan. You think that what you know is true because you have been told it so many times. A BYU physics prof has hard scientific evidence that explosives were used at the WTC. http://
worldtradecentertruth.com...ysicsDepartment
You might also try watching the 9/11: Press for Truth documentary. Do you think the Jersey girls are pushing horseshit about 9/11 Duncan? Why don't you exert a little bit of effort to inform yourself before you make such statements? It can't hurt. But then you already know exactly what happened on 9/11, don't you?
http://video.google.com/videopla...+prof+WTC&
hl=en
http://video.google.com/videopla...+prof+WTC&
hl=en
Lincoln's great, great grandson, stands at the banquet table to declaim, "Apologies from the Lincoln family, ladies and gentlemen. It turns out that my forefather's aphorism was tragically, fatally flawed. It now appears that you can, in fact, fool enough of the people, enough of the time, to run this country off a cliff. Best of luck with those brakes on the way down."
Two comments: one, I think conspiracy theories exist for the same reason religion exists: when people don't understand something, they tend to create explanations that are personally satisfying to them.
two: that said, there are two things about 9/11 that always bugged me before there were any conspiracy theories. First the fact that the pentagon plane almost completely disintegrated to the point that no debris was recovered. I kept thinking, "where is the plane debris". It just seems physically very improbable. Second, by all accounts multiple cell phone calls were made from flight 93. Ever turned on your phone in flight? There is no service available. How did they make all of those cell phone calls?
Sam, FWIW that's how I react to knowing dismissive statements about what really happened on 9/11, too. The repugnance that people express in their blanket rejections of "wild" "tinfoil-hat" "conspiracy nut" critiques is matched by my repugnance for a certain affected "rational","no-nonsense" refusal to acknowledge that the events of that day are not explained by the Official Version. This includes the corollary view that even though there are some puzzling inconsistencies and anomalies in the OV, that the basic analysis is viable.
Put the other way round, the Official Version(s) provide plausible cover for those to whom skepticism does not come naturally, or who find it painful. "Occam's Razor" is invoked in a sage, knowing manner. And after all, both NOVA and Popular Mechanics have given their imprimatur to the simple story lines: 19 guys with boxcutters expertly flew planes into their targets; the WTC towers pancaked neatly solely as a result of the collisions; WTC7 disintegrated because it was sad at seeing its twin brothers die.
OK, that last bit isn't part of the Official Version. Why not? Occam's Razor, you know. Anyway, Sam, I don't know if the hard-line against "horseshit" arises solely, even chiefly, from arrogance. I think it's more a matter of people's individual tolerance for chaos, conflict, and uncertainty.
Keeping an open mind about 9/11 is just too hard on some folks. BTW, Atrios and other bloggers recoiled similarly from the vote fraud issue. Don't be too put off by the face-saving posture of snippily dismissing lines of inquiry that the posturer is simply unwilling or unable to confront. Career academics are particularly prone to this reaction; for all of their theoretical commitment to radical intellectual inquiry, their profession encourages complacency and orthodoxy-- otherwise one might end up like, say, Ward Churchill.
Although I must admit that I started taking Aravosis with a boulder of salt after reading his smug, self-sealing manifesto explaining that "he doesn't 'do' conspiracy theories". He doesn't know what really happened on 9/11 any more than you and I do-- his coping mechanism is to make a virtue of complacent acquiescence to the least painful accepted view.
Both bad guys, but other than that they didn't exactly have much in common.
Other than their scary, brown-skinned, foreign-ness.
Hey if you dont like america, you can leave.
You dont like this? Email me and ill come get you.
You cant touch deepak!
Deepak owns you all!
http://www.deepakgopi.blogspot.com/
"I don't like people pushing any horseshit about 9/11"
It gets me crazy too. the denial of the motives for 9/11 is disgusting and it endagers out lives.
"a news media who have failed to communicate to large numbers of the American people"
they also failed as far as the motives for 9/11. WHen this FBI specialist answered the question about What motivated the 9/11 hijackers to attack the US (see video) the evening news was silent. when the 9/11 Commsiion omitted the testimiony they were silent again. Plese pass this video on to everyone you know. Here is my areticle too: What motivated the 9/11 hijackers to attack the US? (read article)
Blaming Clinton for 9-11 requires a bit of tinfoil too.
[I'll repost a comment made here a few months back, on the occasion of the release of more video of the Pentagon attack.]
Indeed, there are anomalies in all the flights that struck (the flash before impact at the WTC, the damage at the Pentagon inconsistent with the supposed amount of ignited jet fuel, etc.) that make one wonder, but it is too easy to leap to conclusions.
The level of disinformation at work in our society means that you will never know the whole story...period. Even taking the official 9/11 version of events at face value, we have long learned that facts themselves are mere tools of misdirection to conceal other crimes.
What you choose to believe becomes a barometer of your world view of power and the kind of country you think you live in and the kind you would rather have.
There are days when I think, "Sure! A plane-like cruise missile struck the Pentagon, Flight 77 was taken away and repainted, and the passengers were done away with, just as with the airliners that hit the WTC, which were replaced with military cargo planes fitted underneath with a missile." That's crazy, right?
Yes. It is. I must not believe such a thing because there madness lies, a paralysis of paranoia. The CIA found that releases tidbits of "evidence" and disinformation concerning the JFK assassination kept people distracted from covert crimes occurring under their noses.
Expect the same with 9/11. This video release is a conjuring trick in the exercise of Government by Shell Game. The only conclusion that I can't shake is that the attacks, if not the details, then mere foreknowledge, were expected and desired. Perhaps they thought it'd something like the attack on the USS Cole or another bombing like the 1993 WTC garage. The Executive Branch did seem caught somewhat off guard by the scope and success of the attacks.
However, as with the Reichstag Fire, which may or may not have been set by the Nazis (again, we'll never know for sure), the Executive Branch certainly knew what to do after--expand and consolidate power.
It isn't just "The Path to 911." It's the path the mainstream media took to "The Path to 911"
ABC made that turd because ABC knew it could get away with it; that the mainstream media wwouldnn't call them out on it unless the liberals got uppity and stormed the fortress with torches and pitchforks.
All this is, is wagging the dog. They said Clinton was doing it but they are the masters of it. They throw us Path to 9/11, finding oil in the gulf, Carr and the JonBenet murder, the secret prisons, and have you notice how all of a sudden we have all thes video tapes from Al Qaeda? They look like they were filmed in some cheap studio, like a porno film. Yeah, I'm waiting for another attack so Bushy can ride in on a horse and save us all.
Everyone has forgotten that all this happened right after Bush was told it was illegal to wire tap American citizens.
Air America reported that the Dept of Homeland Security notified Boulder, Co. District Atty.
to have Carr picked up and to do it within 4 hrs
thus swaying the press away from the real story of how Bush ignored the Constitution yet again.
This has been one major smoke screen while the real story is buried. Classic wag the dog.
This would make a great movie...hmmmm
The truth about 9/11 is that we don’t KNOW the truth about 9/11, and we should...
If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding everything?
Why are they hiding audiotapes of FAA and NORAD controllers? Why are they hiding videotapes of whatever hit the Pentagon? Why are they hiding the black boxes? Why did they destroy most of the forensic evidence showing that three buildings at the World Trade Center were brought down by thermite demolition charges?
If the thermite residue found on severed steel beams didn’t bring down the towers, what did? (Never before in history did steel skyscrapers fall because of fire, and THREE of them did on the same day … one of which wasn’t even hit by an airplane!)
Why did four hijacked airliners fly around for up to an hour and 45 minutes without being intercepted? Why were normal procedures not followed? (If normal procedures HAD been followed, the aircraft would have been intercepted with 20 minutes to spare, the twin towers would still be standing, and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive.)
If it was massive incompetence, why has no one been fired? … or demoted? … or court martialed? (Instead they were promoted or given the medal of freedom!)
If Osama bin Laden was really suspected, why did our government violate its own “no-fly” order to hurriedly fly the bin Laden family out of the United States before they could be questioned? Why does the “Osama bin Laden” in the “confession” videotape have a nose about an inch shorter than the real Osama bin Laden?
Why have half a dozen of the 19 “hijackers” turned up in other countries … alive and well? Were there really any hijackers at all, and if there were, were they patsies?
Who made millions on short sales of United and American Airlines? Where is the tens of billions of dollars worth of missing gold that was stored in the World Trade Center?
The American people and the families of those who died on 9/11 deserve the truth, and we do not yet have it. The above are but a tiny fraction of the unanswered questions not even raised by those who “investigated” the 9/11 tragedy.
The most unbelievable of all the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 is the OFFICIAL conspiracy theory told us by our government. The Kean-Hamilton commission report was a whitewash, a cover-up, and a bundle of deception.
If a new investigation identifies those responsible, they should be indicted for treason. And those who covered up the treason should themselves be indicted as accessories after the fact.-Robert Bowman
How crazy is it to associate Saddam Hussein with Osama bin Laden?
Listen up, people. The Penguin, the Riddler and the Joker all got together. Doctor Octopus and Kraven the Hunter got together. It was just a matter of time before Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein got together.
Maybe you liberals are content to wait until Saddam and Osama actually traveled to the Mirror Universe and brought back antimatter weapons. But some of us have to take these sorts of threats seriously in order to protect Amurika...
The anti-conspiracy theory crowd is too caught up in their belief that there is something morally wrong about considering the possibility of government complicity in 9/11, that in so doing gives offense to the dead and their surviving families. So they dismiss the para-political research out of hand.
But history is a cold art, which is why it happens at a distance of centuries.
We may not know the whole story about 9/11 for a few generations.
as with the Reichstag Fire, which may or may not have been set by the Nazis (again, we'll never know for sure)
We do. That incident is historically noncontroversial now. The fire was set by a Dutch anarchist, a historical wild card. Hitler exploited it with brilliant amorality; he did not originate it.
The trouble with 9/11 theories is that all of the alternative conspiracy theories (at least the ones about the mechanics of the attacks themselves) raise a shitload more questions than they answer. Three disappearing planes, to begin with.
Even the idea that "Bush knew," while not impossible, is made improbable by his cowardly reaction to the attacks. If he'd been at the WTC in two hours scrabbling at the rubble with one hand and mind-melding OBL with Saddam through a bullhorn held in the other, then I'd think they were stage-managing it. Instead, it's days before they can keep his diaper dry long enough to trust him in public.
The sheer level of ad hominum attacks evident in the conspiracy supporters posting above is pretty revealing as well. Switch a few words around and you'd have a defence of the Rapture or some right-wing blovitating on how Saddam smuggled his WMDs into Syria or Iran.
Face it, if the Bush crew were that fucking good we wouldn't be having this conversation.....
I don't think anyone can be sure what is "horseshit" about 9/11 yet. I personally would be cautious about trusting in the story given to you by the men you claim to distrust so much.
http://bestestblogofalltime.blog...e.blogspot.com/
The fact that you cannot grasp the idea of your gov't being behind 9/11 is evidence that you yourselves are far too indoctrinated into the belief system to question it.
If this happened to another country, especially in light of what's happening now, most americans would be screaming it was an inside job.
But not the good ol USA, they wouldn't do something like that. Not the country that wiped out the indians, a-bombed the japanese and have run countless coups on countries that wouldn't cooperate when we wanted their natural resources.
Pull your head.
Tin foiled again?
try me BUSHCO I am everywoman and you can't set everyone into Siberian styled gitmo.....
paranoid much? fuckin A.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.
ROBERTS: As you know, Michael, President Bush has been out there, giving all of these speeches, just ahead of the 9/11 fifth anniversary, talking a lot about Iraq and how it's the central front in the war on terror. How are those speeches going over among Iraqis?
HOLMES: Well, funnily enough, I spent today with several Iraqis, just ordinary Iraqis, an academic, a journalist, and others, preparing for another story.
Those speeches, it has to be said, among those I have spoken with, do not go down very well at all. When -- when you say, and they hear, the president say that Iraq is central to the war on terror, well, they say, well, it wasn't until you invaded us.
When they say that -- the president says that this is now a haven for terrorists, they again say, well, well, it wasn't until you invaded us.
And -- and those I spoke with today also expressed real dismay that -- that CNN poll showed that 43 percent of Americans still believe that -- that Saddam Hussein caused 9/11. And -- and they are stunned at that level of -- of ignorance. So, yes, they are not real impressed -- John.
ROBERTS: All right, Michael Holmes for us, live from Baghdad -- Michael, thanks. Appreciate it.
We Americans are so stupid!
personally, I choose to believe the government's conspiracy theory that some dudes who lives in caves brought down the twin towers - without inside help. if that makes me a 'conspiracy theorist', then so be it. i don't see why people have to make fun of me for it, though.
A healthy interest in conspiracy isn't a bad thing, and those that want to pursue government involvement in 9/11 are certainly free to do so.
I have high standards for conspiracies though, and there are a few major pieces missing from this one. The weakest point of this conspiracy theory is the underlying premise that the administration needed this event to initiate invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Why should they have gone through all of that trouble? Every administration since Franklin Roosevelt has invaded countries without declaring war (that requires the cooperation of Congress, a body designed to not get things done) or having much, if any, popular support. Bush would of had no trouble provoking an incident in the Middle East to justify action.
Another big problem is that if the government was actively involved in the 9/11 attacks, they would be carefully monitoring anyone investigating their actions. For instance, anyone who got close to the truth of the JFK assassination was rendered ineffective by the FBI in a manner of days, and that was when conspiracy investigators kept a very low profile compared to todays enthusiasts who shout their unformed theories on blogs for the world (and the Justice Department) to see. I have yet to read of the arrest, or disappearance of, a conspiracy nut.
The idea that the Trade Towers were expertly rigged with demolition charges has been ridiculed by those in the building demolition business, but promoted heavily by some academics in a few unrelated fields. As long as the only professors who trumpet the conspiracy theories are from unrelated disciplines, their opinions don't matter any more than that of the next guy at the bar. Psychology, physics, history, and humanities professors have no more knowledge of building demolition than a music teacher would. If I see a professor of architecture join in, I will carefully read what he has to say.
I love reading the conspiracy theories, and encourage those interested to pursue them, but better methodology than I have seen so far is needed.
People keep repeating the dangerous line, "Ha ha, they are TOO INCOMPOTATNETE" (bush spelling) I mean, they lied us into Iraq, right? They got elected twice right? They get by daily committing crimes, and nothing happens to them, correct? How many here would bet 100% of their future income that Cheney couldn't initiate/allow/gently direct/etc. something like 9/11?
Errr.....Atrios? Are you actually casting the belief in a conspiracy that lies outside of the official story as "horseshit"? Because you really ought to take a look at these two links:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/
...icle_1015.shtml
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/
...icle_1047.shtml
I recognize that this is utterly mindblowing but that's a hellova series of coincidences, no? Needless to say, the "9/11 commission" didn't ask any important questions (they weren't allowed to) and that alone ought to get you wondering why. I think that most sensible people can agree that we need to do the whole thing over again, this time without any restrictions on who can be asked what...right?
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