I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
No! I was enjoying the Obama announcement thread!
Like I said once: there is no God. There is only us, so it would behoove us to be nice to each other.
Nevermind all that.
I just watched Tweety on teevee sounding sane.
Unbelievable.
Sam Harris V. Bareback Sully on religion
via C&L:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/
2...tory_20904.html
I dunno, I'm looking at this kitten and it's hard to think there's not some element of divinity in the universe.
Impeach Preznit Scumbag and his crazed messianic obsession.
I dunno, I'm looking at this kitten and it's hard to think there's not some element of divinity in the universe.
fourlegsgood
DNA is God.
Nevermind all that.
I just watched Tweety on teevee sounding sane.
Unbelievable.
fourlegsgood
Moments of lucidity among the insane are common. Unfortunately, tehy don't last.
Do you have a kitty??
If there is a god, which I do not grant, it is definitely in the form of a cat.
I dunno, I'm looking at this kitten and it's hard to think there's not some element of divinity in the universe.
What happens if the kitty dies a horrible death from, say, feline leukemia? What does that say about the universe?
"Now is not the time to be making new enemies."
--Voltaire, on his deathbed, after being asked to renounce the devil
While I respect religious folks, and generally try to tread lightly around disagreements I may have with, say, Orthodox Jews or Jains, but I've generally got the good sense to be respectful. But there are points where I simply won't play nice.
It may well be because I'm a gay man, but part of me refuses to treat the GOP seriously if it keeps talking about me like I'm an alcoholic kleptomaniac, or as if they are out to cure my disease. For them to drag that kind of dog's vomit into the public sphere makes it impossible for me to listen to a debate they'd want about just about anything.
In part its the post-Enlightenment deal that takes religion out of the state, but also, it's the fact that they want negative freedom that upsets me, and makes me think they're as petty as a pack of teenage girls.
Like I said once: there is no God.
You'd have to have the wisdom of the almighty to know that, and, well, you're no god...
If we want to have a discussing about biogtry on religion, let's talk about the biogotry these days against people who AREN'T religious.
wow! early to a thread...what a way to start the weekend.
4lg, cute kat.
Do you have a kitty??
I do indeed.
http://plush-life.blogspot.com/2...t-
madeline.html
I believe in carnival barkers.
Dressed in the finest threads and dwarfed by the big top.
Dirty junkie loser too stoned to fuck the bearded lady.
Thanks to the Bush administration, the Republican Party and the conservative ascendancy, Americans need not travel to Kandahar to learn about the perils of theocratic rule. Right here in the United States, a network of politicians, religious leaders, “faith-based” organizations and (literally) their amen corner are working overtime to make a particularly onerous concept of Christianity the de facto law of the land. Armed with the Bible in one hand and the Patriot Act in the other, George W. Bush and his GOP jihadists threaten to fundamentally change the role of government in monitoring Americans’ lives, liberties and even bodies.
For the details, see:
"The American Taliban."
The ancient God of the Hebrews, who later became part of the holy Trinity, is a nasty SOB. Nicely reflecting the world the ancients lived in.
I conclude this is no coincidence, but it is difficult for some to assign the correct roles to cause and effect.
I do indeed.
http://plush-life.blogspot.com/2...t- madeline.html
fourlegsgood
I am so happy for you!
I'm all for people being religious if that's what rocks their boat.
But I cannot stand for them trying to push their beliefs on me, or on anyone else.
I think there is an element of divinity in the universe, but I don't believe in a personal god, or a god that involves themself in the minute issues of our everyday lives.
Preach it, brother.
Dawkins has a good discussion of the supposed "off limits to criticism" status that organized religion claims for itself, in The God Delusion.
I recommend it.
Where LarryElvis and Curly?
I dunno, I'm looking at this kitten and it's hard to think there's not some element of divinity in the universe.
fourlegsgood
OOOOOOOOOO - when did you get home with the kitten and how is everything?
Word! It boils down to 'government of the divine' vs 'government of man' (people, that is). As far the former is concerned, keep it to your fucking self unless I ask. All our laws are based on the concept of the latter, there is no mention of bringing divine laws (or someone's interpretation thereof) to our government, and frankly, they are not welcome here. And as far as 'moral superiority' is concerned, I've got the moralizer right here in my pants
Often there is a subtle undertone of, "well, at least we all agree those atheists aren't welcome."
You have deeply offended us and our god, and our god is a god of vengeance...and horror.
- And action!
Our god can turn into a wolf.
- Uh, that's Wolfen, man.
Well the...the Wolfen will come for you with his razor.
I am so happy for you!
Thanks! she is so sweet she could be a sugarcube.
I dunno, I'm looking at this kitten and it's hard to think there's not some element of divinity in the universe.
LOOK at those eyes!!!
Oh, god, she's adorable.
OT, but via Kos, the genius of the American insurance industry in action!
Some have postulated that the Jews' reverence for the current life stems from lack of faith in another one.
Repeat from below:
No slur on southern progressives meant, Tena. Just sick of people making calculations based on what a certain type of white Southerners will accept.
was it obama's church references that set this off?
I find all attempts to insert religion into my government and American politics offensive.
It's unconstitutional, unAmerican and wrong and it offends me deeply.
Beyond that - I don't give a fuck what anyone believes. That's their business.
As far as god goes, I think there is one since we're almost certainly living in a simulation.
"...at least one of the following propositions is true: (1) the human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a “posthuman” stage; (2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof); (3) we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation."
http://www.simulation-argument.com/
"People of Faith" constantly demand a respect for their ideas that they have not earned. Unfortunately, they tend to get it. I am there to mock them every step of the way (as I have been at the Washington Post lately) and I do not apologize for it.
However, speaking practically, I do not intend to run for office and no candidate should hire me to blog for them.
4LG, this is gonna sound weird, but...
Look at the markings on her head. They form an "M".
Nice post, Duncan. Thanks a lot.
Madeline is adorable FLG!!!
I am so happy that you have each other.
So alert-looking!
Where I am currently employed, there are quite a few people that are overtly religious. Wether it be talking the good book; or playing some lame christian rock on their stereo.
I personally find it uncomfortable (being an athiest), but I'm not going to get in their face about it because they don't get in my face about their business.
Just leave the kids out of it and you've got no problem for me...
Adam Hominem--perhaps you've read Terry Pratchett: "There's no justice. There's just you."
I'm still in bed. I may not leave it today. I was hoping I'd be over this crap already.
OOOOOOOOOO - when did you get home with the kitten and how is everything?
I got home yesterday about 5. (damn, what a long drive)
She's doing wonderful. I was worried that she would miss the other kitties but she seems just fine.
The breeder adores the kittens and they were all spoiled and petted and snuggled from day one. She's a sweet, social little thing.
Sam Harris is right.
Religion is to blame.
i don't mind when politicians make religious references.
DNA is God.
1watt Hermit
Damn, 1watt, want to join my church?
WELCOME MADELEINE, YOU MOST BEAUTIFUL OF PLUSHY KITTENS!!!!
When the Roman God Mars visited Greece, he would change his name to Ares. Nobody seems to know why.
Also, there is no such thing as a "Christian child" or a "Muslim child".
They are all simply children, who may or may not end up infected with their parents' ideas, but are too young to know what they really believe.
4LG, this is gonna sound weird, but...
Look at the markings on her head. They form an "M".
Oh, it gets weirder. Her dad's name is.... yes, you guessed it.
Max.
Thanks! she is so sweet she could be a sugarcube.
fourlegsgood
oh wow fourlegs she is gorgeous.
I am so so happy for you both. How lucky she is to have you!
LOOK at those eyes!!!
Oh, god, she's adorable.
Showing there is an evolutionary advantage to people finding immature mammals adorable (and for immature mammals to be adorable).
4Legs--she is a complete beauty.
She reminds us that despite the silliness and scariness of it all, it really is a wonderful world.
i don't mind when politicians make religious references.
Atrios
It would be nice if an atheist had a shot at high office.
Oh, crap, a religion thread.
I'm out.
I find this post to be offensive and demand Biden fires Atrios.
Oh, it gets weirder. Her dad's name is.... yes, you guessed it.
Max.
Cue "Twilight Zone" music...
My favorite religious folks are the ones that spend 6.9 days per week scheming to rip everybody they know off and the rest of the time talking about the glory of god.
If I ever met one truly devout, I'd be so in shock I'd probably convert on the spot...
i don't mind when politicians make religious references.
I don't either, as long as they don't proclaim the superiority of one flavor over another.
When I hear Obama talk about his faith, it sounds like he's inspired by the best parts of christianity.
I'm going on pony rides with Jesus and Grandma up in heaven while the rest of you burn in hell.
downstairs, i meant edwards accused howard dean of being condescending towards southerners, when he wasn't. edwards was preying upon southerners distrust of northerners, exploiting regional prejudices. that's no different from exploiting bigotry.
Good one from Greenwald: New York Times Returns to Pre-Iraq-War Journalism.
Starring Judy Fucking Miller's butt boy!
Often I think folks are so alarmed and scared of the simulation theory that they feel compelled to avoid discussing it.
And Dawkins is, sadly, simply having to rehash 17th and 18th cnetury arguments by people like Hobbes and Locke regarding "enthusiasm" and revealed religion.
Ironically, Protestantism was seen as a remedy, because it relied on individual conscience and interpretation -- that is, "common sense."
Of course, once it was institutionalized like the medieval and early modern Catholic Church whose excesses it set out to rectify, it became in some ways all the worse for it. And so from Darby to Scofield, and finally to the pseudo-Protestantism of Pat Robertson and Falwell.
And also to what might be termed a pseudo-Catholicism practiced by the likes of Donohue in which common sense and theology are both bent to the purpose of Dominionist exceptionalism.
In all cases, religion, whatever its status, is used to lend some irrational aura of immunity to quite worldly -- if terrifying -- political aims.
Showing there is an evolutionary advantage to people finding immature mammals adorable (and for immature mammals to be adorable).
Hard to want to kill that, no?
It would be nice if an atheist had a shot at high office.
Gomez
This is largely a product of the Cold War and fighting the "godless Commies," not a steady state of US History.
Otherwise Jefferson would never have been President, or still be so widely admired.
I find all attempts to insert religion into my government and American politics offensive.
It's unconstitutional, unAmerican and wrong and it offends me deeply.
Beyond that - I don't give a fuck what anyone believes. That's their business.
Well said.
Cue "Twilight Zone" music...
watertiger
I think "Get Smart" music would be more appropriate here.
Big heads in relation to body size adorable!
Heretic! Unbeliever! Apostate!
Or is that "a prostate"? I've never been sure....
.
For people like me with a sadistic streak, if you like to torture People of Faith, here is an invaluable resource:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
SDomepbody put an incredible amount of work into this, with annotated cross listings of all of the inconsistencies, contradictions, etc. I enjoy it greatly (and it has helped me renew my acquaintance with the Bible as a beautiful piece of literature).
OT, but MSNBC is still flogging the "bloggers" story.
I wonder what those faint hearts would think if they read some on MY posts?
LOL.
What a bunch of pussies.
If God could knit a doily big enough to envelop the Earth, could He do so without dropping a stitch?
RMJ--what, you're going to leave it to the amateurs?
In all cases, religion, whatever its status, is used to lend some irrational aura of immunity to quite worldly -- if terrifying -- political aims.
Joe Propinka
Hey! I like this guy!
bloggergate on MSNBC-weird timing
Joe Propinka is wrong. Many of the arguments in Dawkins' book are new. The old ones remain because they were never refuted.
Republican strategist.
Flabbergasted!!
he's got the vapors.
moral outrage!!!!
flecks of spittle
Rmj...is that good or bad?
Often I think folks are so alarmed and scared of the simulation theory that they feel compelled to avoid discussing it.
Or you could be like me, and just think that it's nonsense.
I tend to ignore nonsense.
Part of me would love to be able to hold religion, and part of me just won't let me.
Ba'al--I'll confess that 'The God Delusion' is on my night table, but I've not yet started it.
fourlegs- she's a vision!!!
squeeeeeeeeeee 10X
Democratic strategist is asking whether McCain should fire HIS blogger.
LOL.
More of this, please.
I saw The Matrix. I don't drive one.
And MSNBC's Weekend Blonde Host rakes over the Edwards coals again. The Democrat is very good at sticking it to the GOPper about McCain. She's on the Cliff Schecter juice.
Donohue's really having a shit-fit about this, comparing Edwards to David Duke. Which is fucking hilarious. Please, someone, grab this opportunity to shut the bigoted fuck up for good.
Otherwise Jefferson would never have been President, or still be so widely admired.
Or Lincoln:
"The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Imagine a Republican saying that today.
Ba'al, far be it from me to offend thee, I merely wished to draw a perhaps inapt historical analogy; Dawkins is battlign the descendants of certain of those other fellows' opponents.
Oops, sorry Joe Propinka, I should have read all of your post and read it more carefully and not mis characterized it.
Part of me would love to be able to hold religion, and part of me just won't let me.
plantsman
I feel ya- that's just where I've been for some time.
Don't the death threats come exclusively from right-wing bloggers?
Or you could be like me, and just think that it's nonsense.
I tend to ignore nonsense.
Zap Rowsdower, Sorta | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 12:18 pm | #
I don't necesarily agree with it, and having it be true may not affect one's decisions in life, but it clearly isn't nonsense.
Sally, I'll pledge to post cute kitty pictures all day long to make you feel better.
And damn, can fucking Obama give a speech or what?
the dem strategist on MSNBC won that hands down.
the Republican looked like a priggish ninny
i don't mind when politicians make religious references.
plus, it polls so well.
Nonsense, Ba'al, I may have made my comparison inaptly, as I said. Onwards and upwards, says I. (Or perhaps outwards and forwards?)
"Cue "Twilight Zone" music..."
I think "Get Smart" music would be more appropriate here.
I'll go with this.
Ba'al--I'll confess that 'The God Delusion' is on my night table, but I've not yet started it.
Me too:
I need to finish Roger Penrose's The Road to Reality : A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe...
I never believed in Santa Claus. I knew my parents were lying to me, right from the start.
FYI, what I think is new in Dawkin's book are some of the evolutionary arguments about childhood indoctrination being especially effective. It is an interesting explanation for the rigidity of religious belief in otherwise rational people.
4Legs--it does not appear that there will be a shortage of Cute Kitten Pictures for a long time to come!
Hallelujah!
Well said.
Certified Mutant Enemy
Thanks.
Showing there is an evolutionary advantage to people finding immature mammals adorable (and for immature mammals to be adorable).
Hard to want to kill that, no?
Frist is apparently the missing link in evolution, then.
Religion is not part of my life. I don't deny it to others, by any means, but I also don't want it foisted on me.
Unfortunately, in today's political climate, candidates are pretty much forced to pledge their allegiance to God (by which I mean, the Judeo-Christian dude), even if they aren't especially religious. Which I find even more fraudulent than coming out and saying, "I am not religious, but I do not condemn religion."
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
SDomepbody put an incredible amount of work into this, with annotated cross listings of all of the inconsistencies, contradictions, etc. I enjoy it greatly (and it has helped me renew my acquaintance with the Bible as a beautiful piece of literature).
Ba'al
That is one hell of a resource.
Thank you.
Alex Witless has her politics showing like a bad slip, usually. Then, "Headliners and Legends" starts up.
I never believed in Santa Claus. I knew my parents were lying to me, right from the start.
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Oh, was that the 'Brad' that MSNBC Generic Daytime Woman promised to give a more 'fair and balanced' heading next time, when he was on with Dangerstein?
Yes it was. He got pwn3d.
She's just wonderful, fourlegsgood - what an intelligent little sweet face.
O she' going to be so much fun for you and for us!
And damn, can fucking Obama give a speech or what?
During the speech I was imagining an Obama-McCain debate.
In which McCain is crushed like a bug.
.
No Joe, I didn't bother to even read your post to the end before I flew off the handle. I think the fund-os are getting to me.
Man, does Hillary suddenly look whiter, or what?
CME--I just started that one. I've also got 'American Fascists' waiting for me.
I'm such a slug that when I'm done grading, prepping and reading journal articles, all I want is brain dead fun.
Good one Atrios.
I don't believe that John Edwards was offended by what the bloggers. Rather the coarseness of the language, he would have found "offensive", if it were a dinner party, or a piece of official campaign literature. Which makes sense. I also find it curious that is shold be self-evident that the Catholic League is prejudiced against all other religions, by definition.
MSNBC covering this story right now.
This Republican jerk on right now is grinning smugly saying statements made by McCain bloggers aren't relevant because they're not being covered by the media.
Two many words.
"Showing there is an evolutionary advantage to people finding immature mammals adorable (and for immature mammals to be adorable)."
Early man killed all the scaly, ugly mammals.
I believed in Santa Claus until I was forced to concede he did not insist.
I want some magic in the world.
In all cases, religion, whatever its status, is used to lend some irrational aura of immunity to quite worldly -- if terrifying -- political aims.
Joe Propinka
Well stated, my friend.
Well stated.
I am reading about Samarkand, and the Rubaiyat of Omar Kayyam.
The feared reign of Hassan Sabbah, original grand master of religiously driven suicide attacks, was ended when his successor decreed that Paradise was at hand. "What was forbidden is now required, and what was required is now forbidden."
What followed was one awesome party.
Donohue's really having a shit-fit about this...
Good Lord, are the fucking news shows still booking that bigot?
Can't someone just say to him right out of the gate, "So, Bill, the buttfucking Jews control Hollywood - have I got that right?"
I guess you can pretend to have faith even when you don't in order to convince the dimwits that think you do that you are just like them.
Probably most of them are just putting you on too.
I never believed in Santa Claus. I knew my parents were lying to me, right from the start.
Moe Szyslak
Was it the sled without runners that tipped you off?
4Legs--magic lives in your home now
Is Hillary next to Boehner, or what?
I believed in Santa Claus until I was forced to concede he did not insist.
I actually pretended to believe in Santa Claus for a long time so as not to hurt my parent's feelings.
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Oh, dear. He's going to be disconsolate all day.
I don't care what religion someone chooses as long as they demonstrate a complete understanding of the separation of church and state (or any other of your lame personal beliefs --like loser Norm Coleman who opposes choice because he has an adopted child. and won't discuss the issue because it is too personal for him.)
It would be nice if an atheist had a shot at high office.
Gomez
i've wondered if mccain was a closet atheist. bet there are a few on the right.
CME--I just started that one. I've also got 'American Fascists' waiting for me.
I'm such a slug that when I'm done grading, prepping and reading journal articles, all I want is brain dead fun.
Sallyh
Did you ever get your book back from the TSA?
Santa exists, he just don't bring prezzies.
From Digby's comments:
Well, I used to be a Democrat, but these foul-mouthed liberal bloggers have left me no choice but to join forces with Bill Donohue and Dick Cheney. I'm looking forward to the restoration of civil discourse in the public sphere, and might I add, now that I've decided not to hate America any more, I'm really angry about Chappaquiddick.
Oh, yeah, almost forgot: I didn't leave the left blogosphere -- it left me.
Michael Bérubé
I dunno, I'm looking at this kitten and it's hard to think there's not some element of divinity in the universe.
fourlegsgood |
I've had some near-spiritual experiences with pussy, too.
Tena--no, I did not. Not even a check, even though I did request replacement value.
I just really wish that folks could find inner-peace without having to resort to ritualism.
(and no, I don't have inner-peace...but I'm working on it sans-spirituality)
Ah well, this all makes me pull out my old favorite bumpersticker, which actually expresses my real feelings toward the matter pretty succinctly:
"Militant Agnostic: I Don't Know -- And You Don't Either!"
Tena--no, I did not. Not even a check, even though I did request replacement value.
Sallyh,
That just stuns me.
I've had some near-spiritual experiences with pussy, too.
wÒÓ†
Man. That is funnier than I could ever hope to be.
If Bérubé didn't exist, we would have to invent him.
"Militant Agnostic: I Don't Know -- And You Don't Either!"
sdf (Stu)
Oo Oo - I want one.
YES!
My sports team is better than yours, and so's my religion.
In which McCain is crushed like a bug.
.
Gee
obama didn't crush him last time mccain attacked him.
I go to chruch evry Sunday, and my wife is even in divinity school studying to become a minister. It'll be her third career but she was divine well before this. Anyway, by my religion I am allowed to believe in anyhting I want or need to believe in. I believe there is something meaningful in the Universe, mostly because of things like the sound of Emy Lou Harris' voice, or how the night sky looks on a clear moonless night in the wilderness. All the rest of religion is just a room full of monkeys in front of keyboards who occasionally type a recognizable phrase.
Okay then, West-Coast diabetic insomniac lunchtime!
I actually pretended to believe in Santa Claus for a long time so as not to hurt my parent's feelings.
The way the old man put it to me when I was about 6 and figgered out there was no Santy Claws, was that if I didn't believe in him, then I would be getting no presents from the old boy.
I found that I could believe in Santy for quite a while longer once the old man put it that way...
Look, if these people really believed that their religious differences were life-and-death-and-afterlife important, they'd be fighting wars over them. Otherwise, their path to salvation is in danger.
So we've accepted the 17th-century principle of denominational toleration. But the US is still not quite the step on, where atheism is tolerated. Thomas Paine found that one out, and it's all to do with tribal politics.
You know what I found really fucking offensive? Bill Donohue saying that teenage victims of sex abuse should have been able to fend off the advances of paedophile priests. That's the kind of thing that isn't hoary old bigotry. That's a very individuated offensiveness.
If Bérubé didn't exist, we would have to invent him.
melior
I adore Berube - one of my strongest blog crushes and then he goes and shuts it down. Dammit.
Stu--that would describe me perfectly.
I don't discount the possibility that the divine exists; I just can't establish that it does.
Good Lord, are the fucking news shows still booking that bigot?
Can't someone just say to him right out of the gate, "So, Bill, the buttfucking Jews control Hollywood - have I got that right?"
LOL.
Donohue wasn't on, some dem strategist vs. a rethug one.
She reduces him to a furious, spitting mess. Hilarious.
By the way, since when does Atrios post four paragraph analytic discourses?
This blogpamphlet was so much better when it was just the "Rock On" open threads.
Good morning Virgotex, Ba'al, Tena and all y'all. (Is that Texan enough?)
I work for a small, religiously diverse company where no one attempts to convert anyone else. My boss is a Jehova's Witness but you would not know it other than the fact that our "Christmas" celebration was a thank you dinner for the whole company. I did suggest to her the other day that in lieu of a traditional gift exchange we should swap a new pair of argyle socks for wearing at Easter. I think she liked that idea...I almost had to buy her a new monitor.
I dunno. I think there is a "third way" which is how I typically tend to approach the true believers. This is a way that acknowledges that there are important insights and great truths in the Bible, Koran, whatever but that you only get at those truths by reflection, not from a passive literal reading. As the Christ of the Gnostics said, the "rock" or cornerstone of religion or true faith is found within. You don't get it by having some preacher tell you what he thinks it means. You have to decide what it means.
Of course, this is at the crux of why there is such a parallel between fundamentalists of any religion and authoritarianism. Fundamentalism is more comforting since it claims to have all the answers, no need to think, no need for the discomfort of not being sure what is right...just the requirement of submission and acceptance of what the hierarchy tells you you should believe, and the promise (and the promises of the clergy are worth about as much as the promises of the authoritarian regime...that is, by the time you find out if they were sincere or correct or not, the game's over) that all will be for the best if you just submit and follow their lead.
I fear this is an unhealable rift, at least for those who most stubbornly cling to their right not to have to do anything for themselves - including saving their eternal soul.
Man. That is funnier than I could ever hope to be.
Gomez
I aspire to be a less well-known tbogg.
That guy cracks my shit up.
My sports team is better than yours, and so's my religion.
My god can beat up your god.
Anyway, by my religion I am allowed to believe in anyhting I want or need to believe in.
Most Christians are with you this far. Everyone else is allowed to believe what they believe too.
like loser Norm Coleman who opposes choice because he has an adopted child
your portrait of Coleman as loser wouldn't be complete without a mention of the two children he lost because of chromosomal abnormalities
pseudonymous--what really offends me is that Donohue represents himself as a Catholic voice.
"having contempt for actual religious beliefs isn't by any reasonable definition "bigotry.""
That is the definition of bigotry. Not a reasonable definition but THE definition of bigotry.
"It's simply heated disagreement, and as with disagreements about politics, or sports, or whatever"
Disagreeing with somebody does not mean you have contemp (despise, lack of respect or reverence for something) for somebody. Having contemp for someone or goup of someones because of their religous beliefs makes you a bigot (one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance).
I've had some near-spiritual experiences with pussy, too.
wÒÓ†
I thought your Mac made you teh gay?
(maybe there's hope for the rest of us)
Chimpy's own party is losing patients with him, I see:
http://progressive.org/node/4252
they are taking calls
I just really wish that folks could find inner-peace without having to resort to ritualism.
you mean like the pagans, or the buddhists?
Can't someone just say to him right out of the gate, "So, Bill, the buttfucking Jews control Hollywood - have I got that right?"
I heard that he was in full gobshite mode on Kudlow's show yesterday, asking Peter Beinart something like 'well, do the Chinese run Hollywood?'
Also, he apparently called an Asian student a 'gook' on Phil Donahue's MSNBC show some years ago. But we'd need Lexis/Nexis for that.
I just really wish that folks could find inner-peace without having to resort to ritualism.
I quite agree, but I think there's such a thing as religion without ritualism. (It's obscured by the etymology of the word "religion" itself, of course.)
It's the "-ism" that causes a lot of the trouble, really, when the ritual and not its end becomes the purpose of the exercise. Critical thought can be termed a kind of ritual, since the steps involved tend to be repeatable. But the steps aren't the end of the process in that case.
It's sort of like confusing the flag with the things it represents, a confusion, uh, ritually reenacted whenever someone in Congress wants to look "patriotic."
your portrait of Coleman as loser wouldn't be complete without a mention of the two children he lost because of chromosomal abnormalities
St. Paul Dem
God put those abnormalities right where he wanted them to be.
Sorry, just got up.
lOSING PATIENCE
Oo Oo - I want one.
YES!
Tena
You can still get 'em: if you google it, they have it all over the place -- at cafepress, even Amazon.
"I thought your Mac made you teh gay?"
I use a mac, but my policeman within arrested my homosexual within.
Madeline - What a cute kitten.
Disagreeing with somebody does not mean you have contemp (despise, lack of respect or reverence for something) for somebody. Having contemp for someone or goup of someones because of their religous beliefs makes you a bigot
Not necessarily. I have contempt for people who are so silly that they think the world is 6,000 years old.
I wouldn't be rude to them in public though.
I've had some near-spiritual experiences with pussy, too.
Doesn't top my totally spiritual experience with near-pussy
Who's Mike Allen ?...and on a sad note three more soldiers died today in an explosion.
Fundamentalism is more comforting since it claims to have all the answers, no need to think, no need for the discomfort of not being sure what is right...just the requirement of submission and acceptance of what the hierarchy tells you you should believe, and the promise (and the promises of the clergy are worth about as much as the promises of the authoritarian regime...that is, by the time you find out if they were sincere or correct or not, the game's over) that all will be for the best if you just submit and follow their lead.
I hate to say it, but this is not confined to xian fundamentalism. This is pretty much the way all religions work, Jennifer. It's exactly what caused me to run as fast as I could from the Buddhist sect I belonged to.
I've lost my mother to religion. She was a brilliant woman during the 70s, reading every sort of book, educated. Then she got religion in the early 80s and it seemed like everything turned off. Now she obsesses over the details of Anna Nicole. She belongs to a mega-church. She touches lightly and around the edges on her children now because we're not christian fundamentalists. We and her children exist in different worlds now.
I totally despise religion now.
HICA!
The Sopranos Season 6 is purty good, so far...
.
like loser Norm Coleman who opposes choice because he has an adopted child
your portrait of Coleman as loser wouldn't be complete without a mention of the two children he lost because of chromosomal abnormalities
St. Paul Dem
I'm sorry that happened to him but that does't excuse his anti-choice attitude.
Excuse me, I have to go perform my atheist ritual.
It involves bloody mary mix, ice, and vodka.
Shorter Sam Harris:
In the old days we could stand idly by while people professed their religious beliefs and humor them.
Now with the advent of nuclear waapons and the still no compromise attitude of religion and faith, we can no longer stand idly by.
Religion and faith need to be confronted and discredited for our own survival.
Bonjour
i just woke up, clicked on Eschaton...what the hell is this catholic league advert just bellow the Eschaton logo? What's happening here? Please tell me, i'm in shocked!
Good morning Virgotex, Ba'al, Tena and all y'all. (Is that Texan enough?)
hey, neighbor.
remember, we're some of the 'good ones'
/sarcasm
Everything I learned about the spiritual plain I learned from Dr. Strange...
"Passion"
"Twisting faith into violence"
"In the name of God".
You know what I found really fucking offensive? Bill Donohue saying that teenage victims of sex abuse should have been able to fend off the advances of paedophile priests. That's the kind of thing that isn't hoary old bigotry. That's a very individuated offensiveness.
pseudonymous in nc
it's always a good thing when the true face of ugly rightwing insanity gets exposed.
God put those abnormalities right where he wanted them to be.
melior
And I suppose in time God will reveal why you were made such an asshole...
I wouldn't be rude to them in public though.
fourlegsgood '
Being rude to people in public is not the best way to go through life, I've found.
[smile]
.what the hell is this catholic league advert just bellow the Eschaton logo?
I thought it was a real ad too, Plum.
Atrios put up a Catholic League subway ad for '94 to show what they really stand for.
okay, i just clicked on the link...phew. i was really scared for a moment that the blog had been hacked!
Plummy--click on it. No, you'll be glad you did.
Remember where you are
i just woke up, clicked on Eschaton...what the hell is this catholic league advert just bellow the Eschaton logo? What's happening here? Please tell me, i'm in shocked!
It's an ironic joke.
Well stated, Master Atrios! Better to concentrate on a trenchant and succinct comment than to post a half-dozen thread in succession, I always say.
Your comment especially resonated with me because it complements my personal experience: my brother joined an interdenominational Christian monastic community decades ago, and in the course of spending time with him I occasionally hung out with the brethren or friends of the community.
I like my brother, and respect and appreciate the community as far as possible given that I'm a freethinker and soft agnostic. But in my limited participation and perusal of their published articles, I was bothered by their references to "non-believers".
They seem to want to be open to "non-believers", and welcome their participation. But they also presume that non-believers ought to, or simply will, participate in prayers or other religious activity during visits. I felt a real disconnect in their attitude toward "non-believers"-- that there was a distinct element of condescension which the community is unwilling or unable to accept, including the unfortunate possibility that even a well-intended descriptive distinction between "believer" and "non-believer" imposed a one-up/one-down dichotomy.
As a friendly non-believer, admittedly a guest rather than a visitor to the community, I could never find a foothold for my non-belief, whatever that was construed to be.
I'm not meaning to bitch about this; they are very kind, pleasant, and polite people who seem to have a vibrant connection to people worldwide. But for this "non-believer", the snake oil of my skepticism and cynicism didn't emulsify with the holy water of the community. And I typically felt like the odd man out.
Good morning Virgotex, Ba'al, Tena and all y'all. (Is that Texan enough?)
hey, neighbor.
remember, we're some of the 'good ones'
/sarcasm
virgotex
Good morning!
I dunno, virgotex - I'm not sure I am one of the "good ones." Cause I'm not sure what the criteria are and I suspect what they are is "not being from the south." Too late for me.
Even K-Lo thinks Obama is teh hot.
I totally despise religion now.
I always have.
Religion is just another name for slavery.
FY'sI:
I'm a different St. Paul Dem.
Being rude to people in public is not the best way to go through life, I've found.
Now she fucking tells me.
what really offends me is that Donohue represents himself as a Catholic voice.
Only because of two things:
1. He's a convenient body for media bookers.
2. Not enough Cathoics have made the efforts needed to shut him down. They just pretend he's not out there, speaking as if for them.
It does expose the fundamental laziness of the cable stations. I know I keep harping on about this, but he keeps getting booked mostly because he works half a dozen blocks from the studios.
But it also proves the efficacy of the wingnut Wurlitzer, which pre-dates blogs. Donohue has a nice stream of income, but he has about the same resources as a blogger.
He made the move to New York when he took over the League in order to get closer to the cameras.
I use a mac, but my policeman within arrested my homosexual within.
Ted Haggard would like a word with you.
Donohue might be subscribing to a very strict version of the so-called "just world hypthoesis."
More likely, though, he's just a socipath with a nice racket and a nasty tendency to inadvertantly out himself.
Disagreeing with somebody does not mean you have contempt (despise, lack of respect or reverence for something) for somebody. Having contempt for someone or gtoup of someones because of their religous beliefs makes you a bigot (one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance).
hadenough
As I have said many times, people can believe (or not believe) whatever they want. I have no problem with that.
When they start trying to forcefeed other people those beliefs, then I have a problem with them AND their beliefs.
I cannot abide ANY fundies, no matter what religion they claim to represent.
Who's Mike Allen ?...and on a sad note three more soldiers died today in an explosion.
Andy
Mike Allen is a eager little beagle (media lapdog). He LOVES himself some chimpy mcpretzel and can be counted on by RoveInc to breathlessly spew White House talking points.
your portrait of Coleman as loser wouldn't be complete without a mention of the two children he lost because of chromosomal abnormalities
St. Paul Dem
so fucking what --so he gets to choose what he wants but he won't even discuss it. That's exactly the stunt he pulled in the debates with Mondale --if he is so sensitive that he cannot bear to discuss it then he is not fit for public office
well he's not fit in any case
I don't discount the possibility that the divine exists; I just can't establish that it does.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere |
Yep, that's me too. I actually moved from my younger atheism to agnosticism when I gradully realized that although my brian tells me that it's unlikely that there is an Invisible Cloud Being, my brain is also very limited.
Which is to say that the FSM or some other Divine Being could very well exist even though my limited faithabilities cannot convince me of this.
Of course, Kant explained this to us a couple of centuries ago, when he proved that you cannot prove that God does or doesn't exist (yes, irony is inherent there, and not the Alanis kind of irony), but who reads Kant anymore?
He made the move to New York when he took over the League in order to get closer to the cameras.
And where better to wage the "war against sin" than New York City?
I mean, Las Vegas wouldn't have him, I bet.
And I suppose in time God will reveal why you were made such an asshole...
St. Paul Dem
I wasn't born this way, years of Catholic indoctrination carefully cultivated my scorn and derision.
I hope eventually to offend everyone who still believes this bullcrap so much that their brain sputters and begins to function again.
It's the least I can do to repay them.
I like that New Yorker cartoon, of a dog looking up at the stars and moon. The caption: "Dogs sometimes contemplate a higher power, without getting worked up about it."
4LG: i just checked Madeline! She's already so photogenic! I want one too! Does she purr loudly?
I hate to say it, but this is not confined to xian fundamentalism.
fundamentalism crosses many cultures, and wreaks destruction in all of them.
In India, for example: the Shiv Sena movement.
A grand jury in Cleveland returned a 17-count indictment Wednesday against 32-year-old Michael Flory, including charges of rape, kidnapping and aggravated burglary. Flory is chairman of the Michigan Federation of Young Republicans, an organization for members of the party between 18 and 40.
Being rude to people in public is not the best way to go through life, I've found.
Now she fucking tells me.
NTodd, Sex Panther
'
Honey, you're the exception that proves all of life's little rules.
[winky]
and I hate tags bitterly.
Stu--my guess is that RMJ has read him extensively.
Slevin from WaPo managed to describe Obama twice in less than 3 minutes as very liberal by any measure. Is that by the measure of your Repuke talking points?
And where better to wage the "war against sin" than New York City?
Some place fucking warm, if you ask me.
FYI, what I think is new in Dawkin's book are some of the evolutionary arguments about childhood indoctrination being especially effective. It is an interesting explanation for the rigidity of religious belief in otherwise rational people.
Ba'al | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 12:22 pm
This may explain my boss.
If you're referring to William Donohue, I don't think he cares about anti-Catholic bigotry either (or he'd be going after those holy joes on the Right who think of the RCC as a form of Satanism).
He does what he does because he gets paid for he'd do for free: be a bully and anti-Semite. The general welfare of Catholics is nothing to him.
I've lost my mother to religion. She was a brilliant woman during the 70s, reading every sort of book, educated. Then she got religion in the early 80s and it seemed like everything turned off. Now she obsesses over the details of Anna Nicole. She belongs to a mega-church. She touches lightly and around the edges on her children now because we're not christian fundamentalists. We and her children exist in different worlds now.
I'm so sorry about that. There's really nothing you can do but hope she comes to her senses.
The whole Vite Spatafore thang is playin' out quite differently than I thought it would... no spoilers...
.
fundamentalism crosses many cultures, and wreaks destruction in all of them.
In India, for example: the Shiv Sena movement.
virgote
This is true - the New Kadampas are a very fundamentalist Buddhist sect.
Drove me crazy, they did.
The thing about religions is that they do help people get through the daily grind. I haven't been a practicing Quaker for over forty years, yet as I grow older I find the tenets more and more relevant. i don't need the deity. It really is not a bad prescription for living your life, especially the part about not making war.
A grand jury in Cleveland returned a 17-count indictment Wednesday against 32-year-old Michael Flory, including charges of rape, kidnapping and aggravated burglary. Flory is chairman of the Michigan Federation of Young Republicans, an organization for members of the party between 18 and 40.
1watt Hermit
Why am I not surprised?
hey, neighbor.
remember, we're some of the 'good ones'
/sarcasm
virgotex | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 12:33 pm | #
we were discussing the grammatical correctness of "y'all" the other day at work, a very humorous discussion I might add....It's really fun to be with literate people all day when I can't be here.
Molly--I wish our voice was Catholic Worker or Pax Christi. Now that's Catholicism in action.
FYI, what I think is new in Dawkin's book are some of the evolutionary arguments about childhood indoctrination being especially effective.
They bury the shit deep in your psyche while you are young.
NTodd: i like to see your cats' teeth!
why can't the Punkz can't go outside? It's a bit cruel for them to watch the rest of the ménagerie go outside but not them, non?
I didn't like being lied to about Columbus either.
4LG: i just checked Madeline! She's already so photogenic! I want one too! Does she purr loudly?
She does, and she's already 'trilling.'
Lawyers, try this on for size: A. Nicole Smith's baby may be the result of the dead billionaire's frozen sperm.
Stu--my guess is that RMJ has read him extensively.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere |
You're probably quite right.
Needless to say, this country would be a much better place if there were more RMJs in it.
Well put, Atrios.
And that ad made my jaw drop. Was just about to write an irate comment, good thing I read the other commenters first. 
I don't discount the possibility that the divine exists; I just can't establish that it does.
Divinity, IMO, would not let abject ignorance of human rights issues persist.
And I don't susbscribe to the theory of "faith testing" any more than I do the idea that "war brings peace".
"fundamentalism crosses many cultures, and wreaks destruction in all of them"
True dat.
Flory is chairman of the Michigan Federation of Young Republicans, an organization for members of the party between 18 and 40.
1watt Hermit
nice!
As a friendly non-believer, admittedly a guest rather than a visitor to the community, I could never find a foothold for my non-belief, whatever that was construed to be.
Well, you have two models. You're a guest, but you're also under their roof. If it's a community living under a monastic rule, then it's just easier to adapt to the schedule.
I'm in the weird position -- a bit like Molly Ivors @ PowerPop -- of remaining attached to the traditions and community of Catholicism while disengaged from the theology. There a certain social value in ritual, and one of the things that I find puzzling about many Protestant denominations is how detached from tradition they can be. No real church calendar, no real shared liturgy, etc.
It's nice to walk into a Catholic church in a foreign country and hear the same cadences in a language you don't understand: it usually takes me about 15 seconds to work out where they are in the Mass.
(This is something I've discussed here with RMJ.)
They bury the shit deep in your psyche while you are young.
Gomez | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 12:39 pm | #
I'll say. I have a fear of goat corpses and buckets of blood to this very day.
4lg:
You got your kitty??????????
I don't discount the possibility that the divine exists; I just can't establish that it does.
That's where I sit.
The thing about religions is that they do help people get through the daily grind. I haven't been a practicing Quaker for over forty years, yet as I grow older I find the tenets more and more relevant. i don't need the deity. It really is not a bad prescription for living your life, especially the part about not making war.
ql in ny
Of course they do help or people would not continue to cling to them. We've all seen what happens with a governmental system tries to outlaw religion - it goes underground and gets more fanatical adherents.
There is a need, apparently, to believe in something that many people feel very deeply.
I loves me some Sam.
Sam always looks like he's thinking deep thoughts.
I hate to say it, but this is not confined to xian fundamentalism. This is pretty much the way all religions work, Jennifer.
Oh, absolutely. Which is why I didn't say "Christian fundamentalists". We've all seen the same dynamic at work in Islam, and some like you in other religions as well. But in all cases, the root cause is the same.
It's simply heated disagreement, and as with disagreements about politics, or sports, or whatever, sometimes people who disagree with each other use mockery and insults in their discourse. Religious people may think that their beliefs about religion are on a different level than these things, but, you know, I don't really agree with that.
Neither did Douglas Adams and Carl Sagan. Nor does Richard Dawkins, Steven Weinberg, Lawrence Krauss, Anne Druyan (Sagan's widow) and a host of incredibly smart people who happen to be nontheists.
As we learned in the last election campaign, you can only be a legitimate Catholic spokesman as far as the SCLM is concerned if you are adamantly anti-choice and anti- Gay.
It's okay, of course, to be pro-death peanlty or for a war that the Pope has spoken out against.
Talk about cafeteria Catholicism!
A grand jury in Cleveland returned a 17-count indictment Wednesday against 32-year-old Michael Flory, including charges of rape, kidnapping and aggravated burglary. Flory is chairman of the Michigan Federation of Young Republicans, an organization for members of the party between 18 and 40.
o my Patrick McHenry's friend
Really, what's the use of wondering about all this?
why can't the Punkz can't go outside? It's a bit cruel for them to watch the rest of the ménagerie go outside but not them, non?
I don't want their little bodies to lose heat and stuff. They'll go out in the spring.
Lawyers, try this on for size: A. Nicole Smith's baby may be the result of the dead billionaire's frozen sperm.
And media outlets across the country orgasm simultaneously.
I'm so sorry about that. There's really nothing you can do but hope she comes to her senses.
fourlegsgood
No hope there.
Ain't religion grand?
NTodd, Sex Panther | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 12:35 pm |
Your name reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t...h?
v=teLAI_Utp0A
The new kitten looks like a real charmer, fourlegs.
You got your kitty??????????
I did. Pics at homepage. She has outrages whiskers and eyebrows.
She does, and she's already 'trilling.'
fourlegsgood
she looks a little thin? But maybe it's the trauma of the travelling? We will enjoy watching her grow up. merci for sharing Madeline with us. Nice french name! (but "Madeleine" is more common than "Madeline"). Why did you end up chosing that name?
There was a heavy-handed religious subtext in the 4th episode of Season 6, where a fundie preacher (with Janice's ex-boyfriend -- the one who was narcoleptic) comes to see Tony in the horsepistol. Funny.
.
I just checked out Madeline.
The name suits her to a "t". She is a gorgeous little kitty.
I think one thing that drives a lot of people into the arms of a fixed religion is the concept of existance with some sort of an overall narrative vs the starkness of pure existance with no narrative. Some people just can't live with the feeling that there is no ultimate "meaning" to everything. To those who can live with it, the fear is a childlike insecurity. When you are a child your mommy and daddy provide the narrative to what you experience. When you get older lots and lots of people will always need a figurative "Mommy or Daddy" to be that guide through their life. Those who don't need it can't help but feel pity/contempt for those who do.
Oh, absolutely. Which is why I didn't say "Christian fundamentalists". We've all seen the same dynamic at work in Islam, and some like you in other religions as well. But in all cases, the root cause is the same.
Jennife
Yes, true. I just always like to jump on any opportunity to diss the fucking New Kadamapas cause they drove me so damn crazy.
4LG - Madeline is teh cute. Huge, huge ears that she needs to grow into.
Daily Kitten awaits her.
(Our fuzzball is a chirper. Or rather, a 'brooper', which may be down to Siberian genes.)
Agreed. So sick of being labelled a "person of no faith."
I did. Pics at homepage. She has outrages whiskers and eyebrows.
i was going to note the length of her whiskers! Teh faaaaaaabulous!
I get freaked out by any kind of certainty.
Larry Johnson on "the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth!"
Morning all.
My fervent hope is that the one true god is some idol on an island in the Pacific that has never been visited by civilized man, and thus that all mankind, since the dawn of time, having thus not worshipped that idol are damned for all eternity.
But that's just the kind of guy I am.
There was a heavy-handed religious subtext in the 4th episode of Season 6, where a fundie preacher (with Janice's ex-boyfriend -- the one who was narcoleptic) comes to see Tony in the horsepistol. Funny.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian
I saw that...an ex druggie who liked to frequent strip clubs.
Preaching against birth control, but when Tony asked him why he wasn't against Viagra, he handed him some bullshit about it being for procreation and thus good.
My daughter said "Five will get you ten he was a helluva lot more fun when he was on drugs and going to strip clubs!"
Faith Kills Reality Saves.......
"I looked into his soul and he is a good man" G W Bush (soul man)
"God tells me what to do" G W Bush (Mojo soul Man)
Lawyers, try this on for size: A. Nicole Smith's baby may be the result of the dead billionaire's frozen sperm.
And media outlets across the country orgasm simultaneously.
watertiger
"They just don't want you to think about the war!"
--Chris Rock
There was a heavy-handed religious subtext in the 4th episode of Season 6, where a fundie preacher (with Janice's ex-boyfriend -- the one who was narcoleptic) comes to see Tony in the horsepistol.
"You mean dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time like the Flintstones?"
4LG: what's "trilling"?
pseudonymous--I'm where you are. I'm a Catholic as a way of identifying my traditions, how I was brought up, and where I came from. And yes, no matter what language it's said in, I know what place in Mass the speakers are.
I don't discount the possibility that the divine exists; I just can't establish that it does.
This is about where I'm at, in addition to getting frustrated that we spend more time on the question than we spend being decent fucking human beings. I mean, look, I get that some people need the threat of punishment or hope of reward to scare them into behaving decently, but without either you can be a good and moral person, and why can't we go feed some poor people instead of debating theology already.
When I do find myself hostile to "religion," it's hostility to the conflation of pop culture with spirituality, spirituality with doctrine, doctrine with virtuousness and virtuousness with achievement.
I get hostile to religion because I get hostile to things that are in the way of my understanding. I have no problem with religion when it's not being used to keep my mind away from something.
A.
I would also like it on the record that the fact that many wise and good people down through history have believed in god does not make the idea any less silly.
My fervent hope is that the one true god is some idol on an island in the Pacific that has never been visited by civilized man, and thus that all mankind, since the dawn of time, having thus not worshipped that idol are damned for all eternity.
He'd just get voted off the island.
I'll say. I have a fear of goat corpses and buckets of blood to this very day.
Mike
OK. That's creepy.
Ned: [over PA] Well, cockly-doodly-doo, little buddies. Let's
thank the Lord for another beautiful school day.
Chalmers: Thank the Lor -- thank the Lord? That sounded like a prayer.
A prayer. A prayer in a public school! God has no place
within these walls, just like facts have no place within
organized religion.
Agreed. So sick of being labelled a "person of no faith."
mcgannimal
My daughter and I are sick of being looked at like we just announced we're serial killers when we say we're agnostic (me) and atheist (her).
We were waiting for a bus about a month ago in Woodbury, NJ coming home from the mall and these two Mormon "missionaries" approached us. When we told them we don't have much faith (no pun intended) in organized religion, one of them said "Sorry to hear that."
I said "Why? I don't feel sorry that you're a Mormon!"
And I say that having grown up Catholic, still attending Mass and occsionally saying the rosary.
Because I haven't given up wrestling with it, exactly.
A.
fourlegsgood:
Mazel tov!!!!!
where in the F does CNN get it's alleged DemocratIC strategists? Not one minute ago on the Craphole Network they had some ineffectual hackey Whoreshington type named Jenny Bachus "debating" Amy Holmes (one of the 2% of African Americans who still support the Chimperor). Holmes brought up the Obama/Madrassa story saying it came from Hillary's camp and Bachus, the alleged Dem meekly mumbled "I think that's not true." It boggles the mind. The alleged Dem didn't scream at her that she's a big fat liar and should go back to her church and pray for forgiveness. Of course the "anchor" Fredericka Whitfield sat there like a bump on a log herself. Fair and balanced...
My fervent hope is that the one true god is some idol on an island in the Pacific that has never been visited by civilized man, and thus that all mankind, since the dawn of time, having thus not worshipped that idol are damned for all eternity.
serves us right.
I said "Why? I don't feel sorry that you're a Mormon!"
Terry C, Pelosi Fan
Excellent answer, Terry C. Just excellent.
And media outlets across the country orgasm simultaneously.
watertiger
Throaty McHuskington loves the smell of dead bimbo in the morning
So, I've only seen the first six episodes of Season 6, so far... don't spoil anything for me!
.
Unfortunately, in today's political climate, candidates are pretty much forced to pledge their allegiance to God (by which I mean, the Judeo-Christian dude), even if they aren't especially religious. Which I find even more fraudulent than coming out and saying, "I am not religious, but I do not condemn religion."
watertiger
This is the ironic part. Before WWII, American flags in the sanctuary were almost never seen (in fact, I'd venture "never" is the best word for the situation). Separation of church and state was bred in the bone (despite lapses like Prohibition). Of course, MLK was cursed for a fool when he crossed over from civil rights to being anti-war, based on his religious beliefs. But that's another story.
Anyway, after WWII, and the "Red Scare" by the "godless communists," we have to trust in God on our coins, pledge allegiance to a nation "Under God," and put flags behind the pulpit.
Try to remove them now. Take it from this pastor, that's a hill I don't want to die on.
Only Catholic and Episcopal churches, which are very ritualistic (or rely on ritual, which I like, personally) seem immune from this trend. Had a German pastor (younger than me) visit my last church, and express concern about seeing a state flag in the sanctuary. She remembered Nazism, if only as a childhood teaching. Her chaperone, a WWII generation man, defended the practice vociferously as a symbol of "those who died so we could worship freely."
I agreed with her. It was worst on Scout Sunday, when the flag was paraded in (a la the processional of the cross in Episcopal and RC services) and everyone stood to "pledge allegiance." I stood, politely. I refused to pledge. But no one noticed.
Gonna be a long time correcting this mistake.
Sin City or Watchmen?
...amazing that persons who know Obama have made it through on the phone line...
Oh, and I was also quite pleased, while watching 'Our Friends In The North' for the first time in ages, to see that they used a church where a friend got married some years later. (If you haven't seen it, try to rent it: Christopher Eccleston and Daniel Craig before fame.)
Now that was a Catholic wedding. Three priests, full Nuptial Mass, huge pissup afterwards including all three priests.
Jamie Lynn Siegler was supposed to speak at Vandy this spring on eating disorders... she canceled for the 2nd time.
.
Athenae--I accept that my capabilities are limited, and I am convinced that if God does exist, his will is unknowable.
And speaking of religions, since Atrios won't link --
Please visit my deeply spiritual new website
http://www.heygodwouldyoujustblowme.com
Rev. Ted has visited many times, so what are you guys waiting for?
If you want to check out the utter cluelessness of faith, I shall direct you to our very own Athenae, who has authored a text on the subject.
"Lawyers, try this on for size: A. Nicole Smith's baby may be the result of the dead billionaire's frozen sperm."
no, let's try this instead: the baby's father was her dead son's and he killed himself after the birth and then she killed herself because the DNA test was coming up. THAT'S a movie of the week for you.
4LG: what's "trilling"?
It's like trolling, but nice.
Sallyh, I like that.
A.
4LG, this is gonna sound weird, but...
Look at the markings on her head. They form an "M".
watertiger
I hope she isn't one of those superhero kittys. 4legs could be stuck in the roll of Alfred, bringing out her little cowl a cape as required.
JP: somebody stole your scooter??? THE BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!
Only Catholic and Episcopal churches, which are very ritualistic (or rely on ritual, which I like, personally)
I loved the ritual of the high church Episcopal church I grew up in. I loved the 1929 prayer book. When they fucked that all up, they took out all the stuff that made me want to go to mass on Sundays.
I loved our sung high mass on Sundays and I loved the deep reverence for the mystery that was reflected in the 1929 service. They kilt it!
Anyway, after WWII, and the "Red Scare" by the "godless communists," we have to trust in God on our coins, pledge allegiance to a nation "Under God," and put flags behind the pulpit.
Thus was jingoism born in this country.
Now I have visions of the Waponi Tribe from "Joe vs. the Volcano"
Athenae--I accept that my capabilities are limited, and I am convinced that if God does exist, his will is unknowable.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere
You and Annie Dillard. And me, much of the time.
Really, what's the use of wondering about all this?
Apart from the general interest of thinking about systems of belief, it addresses the omnipresence of people like Donohue in the media and their influence on U.S. politics.
irritated,
there was a pretty decent Dem "strategist' on MSNBC about half hour ago- I don't know her name but she completely shut down her Republ counterpart in a discussion of bloggergate. Game,set,match. it was fun to watch
I have LittleShit on the balcony, and BigShit on the back of the sofa.
Hey, the sun's out -- I should git some eye pixels.
.
Nice french name! (but "Madeleine" is more common than "Madeline"). Why did you end up chosing that name?
Madeleine it is then.
It just popped into my head. Trilling is what they call the noises maine coons make. It sounds like they're making a little trillling noise in their throats.
Teh cute.
There is no point having "an honest discussion" about religion. Religion is inherently dishonest, unprovable and useless. An honest discussion about reality would serve everyone in this demented slaughterhouse of a world.
This is too much sugar for one man. That's why god puts it in those tiny little packets; and lives on a plantation in Hawaii.
/Homer
Aargh!!! Athenae, I meant FEITH!!!
T3's don't help with one's writing skills.
"Amy Holmes (one of the 2% of African Americans who still support the Chimperor)"
Had she lived about 150 years ago, she probably would have been calling Abraham Lincoln a troublemaker for stirring things up.
Thus was jingoism born in this country.
smalfis
smalfish, we already had jingoism. We always had it because every country has its share.
Think about the discrimination against American Germans in WWI. That was serious jingoism and it's been around since countries were invented.
4legs, beebeh kitteeeeee!
So fucking cute. I wants one of my very own.
All right, bats. Gotta get some work done today. This is a good thread, though.
A.
"When they start trying to forcefeed other people those beliefs, then I have a problem with them AND their beliefs.
I cannot abide ANY fundies, no matter what religion they claim to represent.
Terry C, Pelosi Fan"
I hate nazis and the kkk and a lot of other groups. If that means I'm bigoted against nazis OK. I think there has to be a "reasonable standard" that needs to apply. If the pope wants to wear a funny hate that's OK with me. If Catholics want to be virgins till marriage Ok with me. I'm not gonna hate Catholics because of the popes funny hat or virgins. Now if they want to kill me or force me to do something then not so OK.
no, let's try this instead: the baby's father was her dead son's and he killed himself after the birth and then she killed herself because the DNA test was coming up. THAT'S a movie of the week for you.
Plum P |
As long as there's tits, I'll watch it.
we spend more time on the question than we spend being decent fucking human beings
Amen.
If George Bush is the example of the faithful then bring on the faithless
There is no point having "an honest discussion" about religion. Religion is inherently dishonest, unprovable and useless. An honest discussion about reality would serve everyone in this demented slaughterhouse of a world.
Pechorin
Ah, another open mind.
So refreshing. Uncluttered by any information or knowledge. How nice.
Sin City or Watchmen?
Watchmen.
I am convinced that if God does exist, his will is unknowable.
I suspect God is simply winging it.
Now I have visions of the Waponi Tribe from "Joe vs. the Volcano"
I flashbacked on the KITH Dog/God sketch.
Sallyh -- T3s hurt my tum-tum. Cain't do 'em.
.
RMJ--I do get upset when scientists say that the divine does not exist because it lacks empiricism, and since it can't be established empirically, it isn't worth reflecting on. I don't believe you can apply tools for understanding the natural world to understanding the divine.
Don't mind me, I'm just a clueless biostatistician.
I think we have to start from the assumption that every living male from age 18 to 90 may have fucked Anna Nicole Smith and work backwards from that.
About ritual, even though I don't believe, I still love the catholic mass.
Had a German pastor (younger than me) visit my last church, and express concern about seeing a state flag in the sanctuary. She remembered Nazism, if only as a childhood teaching.
The most Catholic bits of Germany never voted for the Nazis when they had a choice. They mostly voted for conservative Catholic parties (and still do) or leftist parties (in the Polish enclaves).
But I think of Franco and mainland Italy, and to a lesser extent Ireland in the heyday of clerical influence, where the priests had no role in government apart from making sure no politician ever went against them.
(My uncle's father fought the Fascists in Sardinia, wearing an identity locket with the name of his parish priest and Communist Party secretary as emergency contacts.)
Religion is a cult with enough members
I have no god in this fight.
.
Gonna be a long time correcting this mistake.
Rmj
the church i attended when i was young didn't even believe in displaying a cross.
Sandman, issues 1-12, or Watchmen?
I'm thinking of starting a blog.
Think about the discrimination against American Germans in WWI. That was serious jingoism and it's been around since countries were invented.
Tena
My denomination has deep German roots. Many of the churches conducted services in German up until WWI. They abandoned it because, in some churches, especially in the Chicago area (and Wisconsin), the KKK would drag German speaking pastors from their pulpits on Sunday morning and beat them in the street.
Many a worshipper wondered how God would hear their prayers in a foreign tongue.
If you cain't run with the big gods, stay on the porch!
.
I have no god in this fight.
Heh!!!
I'm thinking of starting a blog.
God
Just don't be a wanker.
Think about the discrimination against American Germans in WWI. That was serious jingoism and it's been around since countries were invented.
Maybe I have my definition of jingoism fucked up, but does it not mean the marrying of ideals and symbolism?
How can the internship of Germans be jingistic under this interpretation? And where in history has that idea been so prevelant as in todays America?
RMJ--I do get upset when scientists say that the divine does not exist because it lacks empiricism, and since it can't be established empirically, it isn't worth reflecting on. I don't believe you can apply tools for understanding the natural world to understanding the divine.
Same with ghosts.
People tell me they can't exist, yet I know they do. I can't prove it, since most people don't have the faculties to perceive them.
Luckyily for me, I don't really give a fuck.
God--you may be the divine, but you still have to register your domain name.
Sandman, issues 1-12, or Watchmen?
wÒÓ†
O please - Neil Gaiman is god.
Sandman - all of it.
I'm thinking of starting a blog.
And thus the blogrolling issue commences anew.
I have sabre-toothed tiger pictures.
Biscuits and gravy are on the way...
.
Sandman, issues 1-12, or Watchmen?
Oh, Sandman.
No contest.
no, let's try this instead: the baby's father was her dead son's and he killed himself after the birth and then she killed herself because the DNA test was coming up. THAT'S a movie of the week for you.
Plum P
I'm more inclined to believe that the little girl's father is the not-Howard K Stern person.
My denomination has deep German roots. Many of the churches conducted services in German up until WWI. They abandoned it because, in some churches, especially in the Chicago area (and Wisconsin), the KKK would drag German speaking pastors from their pulpits on Sunday morning and beat them in the street.
Many a worshipper wondered how God would hear their prayers in a foreign tongue.
Rmj
smalfish - this is what I'm talking about.
Giggles Crawford shocked that Obama's speech was really really liberal liberal!!!!
Luckyily for me, I don't really give a fuck.
fourlegsgood
Just don't look under the bed or behind the closet door.
That's where they usually hide.
"If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever."
--Woody Allen
Y'all are gonna keep bringing up Germans until I get all misty about my last fling (the gal who looked like LeAnn RImes), aren't ya?
.
no, let's try this instead: the baby's father was her dead son's and he killed himself after the birth and then she killed herself because the DNA test was coming up. THAT'S a movie of the week for you.
Plum P
I'm more inclined to believe that the little girl's father is the not-Howard K Stern person.
Terry C, Pelosi Fan
Ok, if the baby was the old man's from his frozen sperm, I doubt very much that she would have killed herself, because that would have been a hell of a clincher in court in her fight for the fortune.
RMJ--I do get upset when scientists say that the divine does not exist because it lacks empiricism, and since it can't be established empirically, it isn't worth reflecting on. I don't believe you can apply tools for understanding the natural world to understanding the divine.
Don't mind me, I'm just a clueless biostatistician.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere
I like to ask them how they can empirically establish why, or even that, I love my wife.
When they resort to biological explanations that are basically a reductio ad absurdum argument, I laugh and walk away.
O please - Neil Gaiman is god.
Sandman - all of it.
Tena
Neil Gaiman: American God.
Except he's British.
I suspect God is simply winging it.
I suspect humans are just winging it. They use faith as a susbsititute for thinking and reasoning.
I suspect God is simply winging it.
watertiger
God is my copilot. If we crash in the mountains I will eat her.
I have sabre-toothed tiger pictures.
I think you need to post photos of men riding on the backs of dinosaurs.
that'd bring the masses around.
no, let's try this instead: the baby's father was her dead son's and he killed himself after the birth and then she killed herself because the DNA test was coming up. THAT'S a movie of the week for you.
Plum P
I think this is the real story, too. What a freak show!
Other journalist sets him straight but giggles isn't having it.
I thought originally she claimed the babydaddy was her lawyer.
I guess the lawyer was fighting that idea.
Plum P -- If you're just learning of the pilfered CDM, you've missed a lot of cat pixels.
.
no, let's try this instead: the baby's father was her dead son's and he killed himself after the birth and then she killed herself because the DNA test was coming up. THAT'S a movie of the week for you.
Plum P
Works for me.
RMJ--it's my one quibble with PZ Myers. He does excellent science, no question about it. But he will not acknowledge the possibility that something might exist that we empirically have no grasp on.
It's the ultimate arrogance.
I'm thinking of starting a blog.
And thus the blogrolling issue commences anew.
watertiger
If I'm not on it, I'm gonna be pissed!
I think Robert Kirkman could end up giving Gaiman a run for his money.
I really dig The Walking Dead.
Agreed. So sick of being labelled a "person of no faith."
You are a man of reaso
About ritual, even though I don't believe, I still love the catholic mass.
fourlegsgood
Whatever for? I would prefer any trappings of religion be removed. I and my brothers have really suffered it more than all of you.
Oh, good girl!!
Using her litterbox like a champ.
Neil Gaiman: American God.
Except he's British.
wÒÓ†
Read that one and the follow up.
He was living in Minnesota last I heard.
I suspect God is simply winging it.
watertiger
mmm..wings...
Beliefs cloaked in religion shouldn't be granted automatic immunity from scrutiny, and nor should the sometimes powerful institutions run by people, not angels or saints, around which the various religions are organized.
Amen. (To coin a phrase). Also, some people's religious beliefs are offensive to me, but, until they try to impose those beliefs on me, I'm generally willing to live and let live. If you go back and look at what Amanda and Shakes wrote, it had to do with people who want to impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us. That, in and of itself, is offensive. And we should be willing to say so.
I love all humanity.
You will all be on my blogroll.
Except that steve simels guy.
It sounds like they're making a little trillling noise in their throats.
Teh cute.
fourlegsgood
you will have to record it and put it on your blog!
Madeleine is a french version of Magdala, the hebrew name....a christian name!
http://www.babyhold.com/list/Fre...eleine/details/
If you cain't run with the big gods, stay on the porch!
"Don't forget that even though I won't be president, I'll always be with you until the last god dies."
I think Robert Kirkman could end up giving Gaiman a run for his money.
I really dig The Walking Dead.
wÒÓ
O yeah? I better get myself up to the comics store. I've been wondering if there wasn't something else out there I might really dig.
Thanks.
The lawyer Howard K Stern is on the birth certificate and they had a nonbinding committment ceremony but were planning on marrying later this month.
Rita Cosby and her sources at Star are trying to make the guy with the money hungry lawyer the dad. Since when do you take a custody case on contingency unless the custody comes with a big payout. She's why people think lawyers are slime
Ok, if the baby was the old man's from his frozen sperm, I doubt very much that she would have killed herself, because that would have been a hell of a clincher in court in her fight for the fortune.
Tena |
Tena, when I first heard that theory, I was taken aback, but then I realized it makes sense!
Noron sighting via Wonkette:
During the DNC meetings at the Hinckley Hilton last week, I witnessed the very pregnant Norah O’Donnell ensuring her twins have especially low birth weight by smoking like a chimney walking between the hotel and the NBC stand-up.
I and my brothers have really suffered it more than all of you.
Where is this pulpit that you speak from?
It's the ultimate arrogance.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere
Even Hume, who limited all possible answers to empirical ones, admitted there were no possible answers to the most important questions (he divided the questions into those empiricism could answer, and those it couldn't).
He decided we should take up raising sheep and quit worrying about it. It took Kant's idealism to re-establish a framework in which we could continue the discussion.
Ironic, no?
Rmj, is well meaning, but he promotes it, and it all has that capacity to harm.
I would rather discuss The Sopranos than theological matters, but mine is not to wonder why...
.
God speaks every language except Icelandic.
MSNBC Close Captioning:
"Senator Bomber Announces
that he is running for President"
Watch...Rmj, is homosexuality sinful?
answer
Simple words. Easy to understand.
God speaks every language except Icelandic.
What about Hopelandic?
O yeah? I better get myself up to the comics store. I've been wondering if there wasn't something else out there I might really dig.
Thanks.
Tena
Get the TPB's. I'm into zombie comics in general, so I'm biased in favor of Kirkman.
I hear his work on Invincible is entertaining, if you're into the spandex-clad superhero stuff.
Oh, good girl!!
Using her litterbox like a champ.
fourlegsgood
O this is too much - we get to go through the whole kitten stage with you and Madeline.
What fun!
She's so adorable - damn, I had no idea she was just over in Ft.Worth. I might have been tempted to run over there ahead of you. [winky]
If you go back and look at what Amanda and Shakes wrote, it had to do with people who want to impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us. That, in and of itself, is offensive. And we should be willing to say so.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Yep.
I'm offended that there's a Catholic League ad at the top of the page claiming that condoms don't save lives.
Pardon my obsession with Mike Allen's obsession with Obama, but given the opportunity to ask a local Illinois journalist who has been following Obama's career, Allen asked (paraphrasing) how does Sen. Obama act with the press? is he easygoing and chatty? Like Straighttalking Maverick McCain I guess. Inside the beltway pundits like inside the beltway candidates because they'll 'chat' with them. What small, small people.
Lime Rickey: God speaks every language except Icelandic.
Real tongue-twisters in that that language. Plus, they stay drunk, dawn to dusk.
.
Madeleine is a french version of Magdala, the hebrew name....a christian name!
Actually, I was thinking of the cookie.
I speak Icelandic.
I'm out, again.
Things to see, people to do. So if you don't hear from me, don't consider it evidence that I don't exist.
m'kay?
I'm offended that there's a Catholic League ad at the top of the page claiming that condoms don't save lives.
cay
er, try clicking on it.
All will be revealed.
God loves all the little corksoakers.
.
Saturday God talk. How refreshing.
How about this: God is one of our last regnant myths (in Karl Popper's sense of "all science begins with myth and the criticism of myth"), in this case, the myth of value. Explicitly, God is an anthropomorphism of value. This is not to say that either God or value don't exist -- to the contrary, it's to point out that value, in and of itself and in relation to others, is a still a very contested, poorly understood, and wild concept. You could also say something similar about Heaven as an ecomorphism of freedom. These are some of the kinds of ideas that make axiology (value theory) attractive to me. FWIW.
Heavens to Betsy, I hope that's not too earnest.
Jeffraham Prestonian: i haven't been here a lot this last week, but i check on the boys almost daily. Sittenpretty is indeed very pretty! Is she "your" Watertiger?
no, let's try this instead: the baby's father was her dead son's and he killed himself after the birth and then she killed herself because the DNA test was coming up. THAT'S a movie of the week for you.
Plum P |
As long as there's tits, I'll watch it.
wÒÓ† | 02.10.07 - 12:55 pm |
even Denny Hastert's tits?
Has anyone gone to Iceland for vacation? IS it a cool place to visit? (pun not intended)
Watch...Rmj, is homosexuality sinful?
Damn, I hate this question.
Sin is a manmade idea, and as such has a multitude of interpertations. Subject to one's own ideology. Fuck everyone's idea of what sin is. Let us get over the idea that one's sin is another persons heaven.
RMJ--I think the conflict originated for me out of Newton's statement that to understand the calculus was to know the mind of God.
I kept thinking, no, it was to understand Newton's thought process.
I'm not a philosopher, and I'm easily out of my depth on such matters.
Rita Cosby and her sources at Star are trying to make the guy with the money hungry lawyer the dad. Since when do you take a custody case on contingency unless the custody comes with a big payout. She's why people think lawyers are slime
Liars for Bush
That was the story originally - the lawyer was the babydaddy.
I didn't realize that that had been disputed.
Okay, I needs me some eggs.
Hating on the religious makes me hungry. Back later with some more baby-blogging blitz.
I speak jive, esperanto, the language of love....
what did the billionaire's son, the one fighting ana smith in court, die from?
I guess nobody here is a Sigur Ros fan.
Iceland's answer to Radiohead!
Sin is a manmade idea, and as such has a multitude of interpertations. Subject to one's own ideology. Fuck everyone's idea of what sin is. Let us get over the idea that one's sin is another persons heaven.
smalfish
Standing ovation.
I'm out, again.
Things to see, people to do. So if you don't hear from me, don't consider it evidence that I don't exist.
m'kay?
Rmj, Curiously Refreshing
See? They will eternally doom us with their dogma. We're not going to accept that. Because they want to believe they'll live forever with Jayzus by bashing us.
Iceland rocks, go there! Some of my best work.
Also, I would like to add that I am NOT the father of Anna's baby.
Plum P: Is she "your" Watertiger?
Did she make fancy desserts for me, and knock me out with a roundhouse kick to the head?
I guess I don't understand the question...
.
Watch...Rmj, is homosexuality sinful?
No. Sex is not inherently sinful.
Oh, wait, you weren't talking to me. But I'm guessing RMJ would say no.
I'm out, again.
Things to see, people to do. So if you don't hear from me, don't consider it evidence that I don't exist.
m'kay?
Rmj,
Did y'all hear something?
Has anyone gone to Iceland for vacation? IS it a cool place to visit? (pun not intended)
Bad Art
Hang by the volcanos.
what did the billionaire's son, the one fighting ana smith in court, die from?
jello
Pierce?
Heart attack, IIRC.
Newton's statement that to understand the calculus was to know the mind of God.
Well they say that Euclid alone has looked on beauty bare.
Thye pull me back in....
I kept thinking, no, it was to understand Newton's thought process.
I'm not a philosopher, and I'm easily out of my depth on such matters.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere
Wittgenstein would agree with you.
And most mathematicians are closet Platonists. So they'd agree with Newton.
Clear as mud now?
One of the things I find hard about being an atheist is that it is impossible to explain to a believer the entire thinking and assumptions and worldview without completely wrecking that believer's belief.
Of course, that assumes they would listen.
So, my wife knows I'm an atheist and doesn't understand it and I have never explained it to her. It would basically carpetbomb her mind if she listened to the whole thing and understood it.
Oswego, NY is sinful in my eyes.
Did she make fancy desserts for me, and knock me out with a roundhouse kick to the head?
I guess I don't understand the question...
Oh, for fuck's sake.
Are you guys an item or not?
Well said, Fred.
I'd really feel a lot better about things if there were more Robert Jeffers in this country, and fewer people convinced they are victims.
RMJ--it's always muddy for my tiny brain.
Watch...Rmj, is homosexuality sinful?
oh, good question. rmj, is it true the historical definition of sodomy has changed through time? that the original meaning was quite different from what is it today?
what did the billionaire's son, the one fighting ana smith in court, die from?
jello
Someone thought somebody died from eating jello?
Oh, wait, you weren't talking to me. But I'm guessing RMJ would say no.
fourlegsgood | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 1:10 pm | #
I just asked him. Ask him yourself.
I'd like to go to Iceland; my brother-in-law's been and he says it's gorgeous.
Speaking of belief. I hate NPR's "This I Believe". It's like being forced to sit through a high school sophmore English class and having to listen to the student's read essays.
I guess nobody here is a Sigur Ros fan.
Iceland's answer to Radiohead!
Zap Rowsdower, Sorta
hey! I've got into them since the Svenfn-g-englar EP on Fatcat. Some of us do know them!
Hecate, go see the baby.
http://plush-life.blogspot.com/
I'm more inclined to believe that the little girl's father is the not-Howard K Stern person.
Terry C, Pelosi Fan
I hope you're right. He strikes me as a really creepy user who was at least partly resposible for her death. The nurse called him instead of 911 when she wasn't breathing? Something was up there.
Newton's statement that to understand the calculus was to know the mind of God.
Right away with the math shit.
Drunky's really desperate for attention, isn't he?
Makes me laugh...
See? They will eternally doom us with their dogma. We're not going to accept that. Because they want to believe they'll live forever with Jayzus by bashing us.
Ô¿Ô
Lighten up, Francis!
All this porn is fucking up my Photoshop scratch disk.
rmj is just a creation of the people of Texas, invented to keep the rest of us oppressed.
I guess nobody here is a Sigur Ros fan.
*raises hand*
I guess I don't understand the question...
Oh, for fuck's sake.
Are you guys an item or not?
fourlegsgood
exactly!
I speak Icelandic.
Barbara Billingsly | 02.10.07 - 1:07 pm | #
As well as Jive?
Damn, you're one Renaissance Broad.
I just asked him. Ask him yourself.
Okay, I will later.
I think I remember him saying he supported gay marriage though.
I don't think he has much interest in oppressing anyone.
...the baby's father was her dead son and he killed himself after the birth and then she killed herself because the DNA test was coming up. THAT'S a movie of the week for you.
That's ten years on a soap opera!
fourlegsgood: Are you guys an item or not?
Are you implying I would be interested in ladies who rescue ugly dogs?
.
CSPAN LIVE......
THE STATE OF BLACK AMERICA.
OMG 4LG, that is THE cutest kitten in the world! She's so precious! And I love her name, too. Does she like to cuddle, yet? Damn, that cat is cuuuuuuuute!
Someone thought somebody died from eating jello?
Bad Art
i don't recommend it.
Fuck off. I asked Rmj a question and he split. Email him about it or something. According to him, I'm going to hell because of his religious dogma because I'm gay.
Go fuck yourself, fertilizer spreader.
90 year old sperm, baby!
I believe it is possible to die from eating jello. Especially the jello in my college cafeteria, which contained yesterday's leftover vegetables. Beet jello? Nooooooooooooooo
Hecate, go see the baby.
Hunh... you couldn't find a cute one?
; )
Congrats!
Praise GEB, the Eternal.
Such a cute kitten. I wish I'd had a blog and camera when Tiger was little.
Oswego, NY is sinful in my eyes.
God | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 1:11 pm | #
I've been meaning to have a word with you about Mount Kisco as well.
So, my wife knows I'm an atheist and doesn't understand it and I have never explained it to her. It would basically carpetbomb her mind if she listened to the whole thing and understood it.
My househoold has the same issues. Yet, my wife has never inquired as to why I am an atiest. Even if she did, she would not hear my explanation. Closed mind provided by the church of any god.
And speaking of that. I get the thrill of going to my Brother In Law's wedding today. He is a born again fundy, and I dread going to that place he calls a church. I feel violated when I am forced into these situations. Yet, civility requires that I attend these functions.
Oh, the things we do to be human.
Mike Allen (I'm late):
The Politico: Barack Obama’s free ride is ending.... Obama’s about to endure a going-over that would make a proctologist blush. Why has he sometimes said his first name is Arabic, and other times Swahili?... [T]he long knives will be out for Obama.... Officials at the top of both parties calculate that Obama has risen too fast...
Shorter Mike Allen: Uppity Negro needs to learn his place.
Daniel Beaty on C-SPAN. Check it out!
Are you implying I would be interested in ladies who rescue ugly dogs?
You know, that's just uncalled for.
Sin is a manmade idea, and as such has a multitude of interpertations. Subject to one's own ideology. Fuck everyone's idea of what sin is. Let us get over the idea that one's sin is another persons heaven.
smalfish
I don't understand. It seems you're pointing out the necessary relativism of the notion of sin in your first three sentences, then it seems you reject relativism in the last sentence. Please explain?
By the way, I do have an idea of sin, after a fashion, in order to handle the idea of evil. Basically, I have an hypothesis that evil, the absence of value, is the same thing as domination, the absence of freedom. Domination is evil, aka the "DIE" hypothesis. I like my idea because I can discriminate readily and empirically instances of domination, whereas more subjective concepts of evil and sin seem to be purely matters of taste where they're not already examples of domination, and therefore legitimate.
He's my father! My brother! My father! My brother!
14 foot snow drifts. How much clearer do I have to be?
Playwright on Cspan claims Ancient Pyramid Architects were the same color as modern American blacks.
Faith and religion are not interchangeable concepts.
fourlegsgood: You know, that's just uncalled for.
Oh, c'mon -- I'm just ribbin' ya.
We talked a lot about you at Blackstone. Were you male, female, etc.
.
Duncan, stop trying to figure all this out. Just sit quietly, focus on your breathing, and watch your thoughts.
Gee: who is having those thoughts?
He's my father! My brother! My father! My brother!
SteveLG
Forget it Steve, it's Chinatown.
The fact is, liberals are intolerant of anyone who has faith, and seek to deny them there rights.
There isn't a god. If anyone believes there is one, needs to have their heads examined.
Fuck off. I asked Rmj a question and he split. Email him about it or something. According to him, I'm going to hell because of his religious dogma because I'm gay.
Why are you attacking me?
You know I'm on your side. I'm pretty sure RMJ is as well, but I'll let him speak for himself.
Peace, okay?
Liberals like to lock up those who contribute to the delinquency of minors, I hear.
Who's got the Thumbsnap? I've lost a lot of data...
.
The fact is, liberals are intolerant of anyone who has faith, and seek to deny them there rights.
The fact is, you're wrong. Shocking, I know.
We talked a lot about you at Blackstone. Were you male, female, etc.
I'm a centaur.
fourlegsgood:
Oh god, your kitty is ultra adorable.
Again, mazel tov.
Domination is evil, aka the "DIE" hypothesis.
common dedominator
Of course it is. That worm, Rove, pays good money for that kind of thing.
Duncan, stop trying to figure all this out. Just sit quietly, focus on your breathing, and watch your thoughts.
Gee: who is having those thoughts?
John H. Farr
meditation snobs.
[rolls eyes]
OT question for you politicos: Can Congress cut the budget for the Justice Department?? Since it seems the JD is counselling agencies to resist cooperatio from Congressional oversight by the Dems, can't they just slash the JD's budget in half?
The fact is, liberals are intolerant of anyone who has faith, and seek to deny them there rights.
Gary Ruppert
Holy crap dude, I thought you were dead!
What's up, man?
The fact is, liberals are intolerant of anyone who has faith, and seek to deny them there rights.
THERE rights????????????????
I miss the laughing emoticons.
fourlegsgood: I'm a centaur.
Centaurs have no gender?
We also wondered why you weren't at the conference that Sinfonian and my boss attended.
.
Heaven is "Eternity Floating Around On A Cloud With Gary Ruppert And Invisible Sky Being,"
and seek to deny them there rights.
What are "there" rights?
Is that a form of property right? Or is it more of an existential thing?
just thought I'd share
FOCUS | Another White House Aide Fingers Cheney
http://www.truthout.org/docs_200...6/
021007Y.shtml
David Addington, chief legal adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney, says he was taken aback when the White House started making public pronouncements about the CIA leak investigation. "Why are you making these statements?" Addington asked White House communications director Dan Bartlett. "Your boss is the one who wanted" them, Bartlett replied, referring to Cheney. With that, "I shut up," Addington recalled recently for jurors in Libby's CIA leak trial, which begins its fourth week on Monday with Libby's lawyers calling their first witnesses.
fourlegs, I just went back for seconds.
zoomed the pic.
oh my- she's amazing--
whiskers!!!
the eye rings!!!
ear tuftiness!!
She's stunning.
Perfect example of Stephen Jay Gould's description of the juvenile visage that triggers an "automatic urge of disarming tenderness"
I love all humanity.
You will all be on my blogroll.
Except that steve simels guy.
God
Yeah, well, Lord of Creation, Mighty Father, the Alpha and the Omega-- as far as steve is concerned, You can just Blow him.
THERE rights????????????????
Wererights?
On CNN's In the Money: Is integrity something that we as a nation forgot about when we strated with these rock star CEOs.
Yes, it's the nation's fault. It couldn't be: (1) the scoundrels themselves; (2) the mindless cheerleaders of the media.
fourlegsgood: I'm a centaur.
Centaurs have no gender?
I've accepted the fact, finally, that centaurs, or at least, our centaur, has no gender.
[smile]
There is a God. Mankind is building him. Men are building a body for God. In another 100 thousand years no one will ever question the existence of God, he will be as real as the sun and the earth.
http://thumbsnap.com/v/DD4cql02.jpg
I see Gary, our favorite mouthbreather, is here.
The fact is, liberals are intolerant of anyone who has faith, and seek to deny them there rights.
Spoon me, baby!
There is a God. Mankind is building him. Men are building a body for God. In another 100 thousand years no one will ever question the existence of God, he will be as real as the sun and the earth.
sonia
That's nice, dear. Now run along.
The fact is, liberals are intolerant of anyone who has faith, and seek to deny them there rights.
Gary Ruppert | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 1:19 pm | #
Even worse, liberals refuse to admit what's obvious to all other sentient mammals in the 37 known galaxies -- that for sheer satiny sheen and volcanic power, nothing -- I say nothing -- compares 2 my groinal area.
Prince is writing a song about it at this very moment.
There is a God. Mankind is building him. Men are building a body for God. In another 100 thousand years no one will ever question the existence of God, he will be as real as the sun and the earth.
sonia
And then faith will die because there will be no need for it.
don't understand. It seems you're pointing out the necessary relativism of the notion of sin in your first three sentences, then it seems you reject relativism in the last sentence. Please explain?
Sin, IMO, is driving a big fucking four wheel drive with knobby tires around the city streets while the Earth is burning up from unnecessary fuel consumption. Or sin is watching idly by, while places like Darfur die a meaningless death as the world watches in unamused apathy.
I don't know relativism from relationships.
After all, I believe in my own irrationallism. And that is ok in my book.
The Seven Contrary Virtues:
humility, kindness, abstinence, chastity, patience, liberality, diligence
We also wondered why you weren't at the conference that Sinfonian and my boss attended.
Which one?
There's too fucking many of them. If I went to all of them I'd never get any work done.
Tena: I've accepted the fact, finally, that centaurs, or at least, our centaur, has no gender.
I'm trying to work through the personal pronouns. See, to my people, "it" is just... rude.
.
Speaking of someone who is trying to deny people THEIR rights:
http://www.comcast.net/news/
nati...h=itn_robertson
There is a God. Mankind is building him. Men are building a body for God. In another 100 thousand years no one will ever question the existence of God, he will be as real as the sun and the earth.
Longfellow? Poe?
thinkprogress:
Evidence Grows That White House Planned To Release Cooked Intel On Iran
UPDATE: U.S. officials leak the intelligence to Joe Lieberman, who says he approves:
U.S. military commanders in Iraq have shown members of Congress explosive devices that bear Iranian markings as evidence Tehran is supplying Iraqi militants with bombs, a senior U.S. government official said Saturday.
One of the lawmakers, independent Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, said he has seen some of the evidence, though he would not be specific. “I’m convinced from what I’ve seen that the Iranians are supplying and are giving assistance to the people in Iraq who are killing American soldiers,” said Lieberman, who was attending an international security conference in Munich.
he will be as real as the sun and the earth.
sonia
Where does Pluto fit in?
Hey, he started it!
And, if I were to blow him, the experience would be amazingly transcendent, I can tell you that.
Perfect example of Stephen Jay Gould's description of the juvenile visage that triggers an "automatic urge of disarming tenderness"
Yepper, the "awwwww" factor.
brb
hygienic metters to attend
brb
.
If the fundie xians ever thought about anything, they might understand that if Jesus did actually reappear, they would not be superior to anyone else anymore because doubt and faith would disappear and people would no longer be on that kind of footing - it would be concrete.
And they would become just faces in the crowd. No more victimhood, no more superiority.
37 known galaxie
Rupaul, you are dumber than two bulls fucking.
You know I'm on your side. I'm pretty sure RMJ is as well, but I'll let him speak for himself.
Peace, okay?
fourlegsgood
Hi Rmj.
I'm not going to let it pass with him and his religious crappy religious dogma. He pushes what hurts me and those like me. It's crap, wrapped in a nice package. It's mircobial. I don't give a shit about it.
New Repuke topic for discussion: them there rights.
I hope you're right. He strikes me as a really creepy user who was at least partly resposible for her death. The nurse called him instead of 911 when she wasn't breathing? Something was up there.
fact check please
that story came from the Star who also claimed she had illegal drugs in the room
they called 9/11 righaway and begin cpa
I've accepted the fact, finally, that centaurs, or at least, our centaur, has no gender.
[smile]
Tena | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 1:23 pm | #
The ones on XENA WARRIOR PRINCESS did.
And I think we can safely say that show is the last word on the subject, no?
"The fact is, liberals are intolerant of anyone who has faith, and seek to deny them there rights."
Gary Ruppert
"Holy crap dude, I thought you were dead!"
It does seem like his brain expired.
Man.
At least with dith, you got your money's worth...
Where does Pluto fit in?
Pluto means "God's kidney stone."
Watch...Rmj, is homosexuality sinful?
answer
Ô¿Ô
Take the high road if you must, rmj, but next time consider keeping the ball in play by responding: "It is the way you do it!" just to see what happens.
I'll take RMJ over fucking Incog any day. Christ, Incog's shit is tired. Fucking troll.
'mout.
I asked Rmj is being gay was sinful and he took off like a religious coward.
"Holy crap dude, I thought you were dead!"
It does seem like his brain expired.
I've diagnosed him via video and I can say unequivocally that the fucker's toast.
I'm not going to let it pass with him and his religious crappy religious dogma. He pushes what hurts me and those like me. It's crap, wrapped in a nice package. It's mircobial. I don't give a shit about it.
Ô¿Ô
Rmj isn't "PUSHING" anything.
Ya wanna take that chip off your shoulder, please?
I spent my high school years in an all female catholic school. At the end of it, i was - and still am - an atheist. I guess their teaching made me reach to the "dark side"!
I'm being unmercifully required to attend this wedding.
Later.
begin cpa err no
cpr although with all the money involved cpa might have been more appropriate
There is a God. Mankind is building him.
fuck, Haliburton is gonna is gonna so screw this contract...
D R A P E S
I'm not going to let it pass with him and his religious crappy religious dogma. He pushes what hurts me and those like me. It's crap, wrapped in a nice package. It's mircobial. I don't give a shit about it.
You are way off base. Jeffers is a very gentle individual that wouldn't hurt a flea.
You, on the other hand, are a nasty sort that has worn your welcome out here long ago.
And, if I were to blow him, the experience would be amazingly transcendent, I can tell you that.
So you've seen "Angels in America"?
I'm out, too.
And Incog, you're as fucking intolerant and dogmatic as they come.
Peace.
smallfish: did you watch the Office this week? Hope your wedding is as entertaining as that one was.
I spent my high school years in an all female catholic school.
You and me both.
Got sick of being told that my only use was as a breeder.
Where does Pluto fit in?
Pluto means "God's kidney stone."
NTodd, Sex Panther
It doesn't mean "God's planet" anymore, anyway.
I am still chuckling over those Catholics who do believe the pope is infallible and so believe it when the pope decides to change the way heaven is structured, like he recently did when he declared that Limbo no longer exists. I can't believe some people just say: OK.
Do they really think the pope is god, and he can just decide what parts of the afterlife are real and what aren't? I have never understood this.
The fact is, liberals are intolerant of anyone who has faith, and seek to deny them there rights.
Actually GOD loves me but he HATES you. Now go away.
I'm God. I see all.
But my cable reception comes and goes.
I'll take RMJ over fucking Incog any day. Christ, Incog's shit is tired. Fucking troll.
'mout.
Thers
Me, too.
The "poor me" shit is tiresome.
sheets.
this has been a prerecorded message.
You, on the other hand, are a nasty sort that has worn your welcome out here long ago.
billy b;
For three fucking years, the same fucking goddamned shit about Robert Jeffers. Three years of this shit.
I would give a lot to not have to deal with these lies and this whining and this perpetual victimhood any more.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.
Rmj, we gays are naturally going to fight your institution forever and we will win and bury you. You will be buried in the scrap heap of history with our bodies, which we've done since the beginning of this. We will win. You know why? Because we're human beings and will always be. You just have old dusty bibles written by tripping in the desert that are false.
I am still chuckling over those Catholics who do believe the pope is infallible
Catholics don't believe the Pope is infallible -- common misconception. The doctrine of Papal infallability is a 19th century invention and only applies when the Pope speaks ex cathedra on a matter of doctrine, and that's never actually happened.
Incidentally, you know the Pope is speaking "ex cathedra" when he does that "air quotation marks" thing with his fingers.
FOCUS | Another White House Aide Fingers Cheney
We need to rewrite that headline. Ick.
For three fucking years, the same fucking goddamned shit about Robert Jeffers. Three years of this shit.
Yes, dear. The galasses trool isn't fit to clean Jeffers' commode.
Incog:
You're a sad, miserable, hateful person.
You see slights and insults where none exist.
Your "professional victim" act is tiresome.
Sin, IMO, is driving a big fucking four wheel drive with knobby tires around the city streets while the Earth is burning up from unnecessary fuel consumption. Or sin is watching idly by, while places like Darfur die a meaningless death as the world watches in unamused apathy.
All of your examples of sin are also examples of domination, i.e. environmental domination; genocide, surely an extreme of domination along with extinction; and intentional neglect of the dominated by the so-called "free" world, which created the conditions aforementioned.
I don't know relativism from relationships. Wonderful!
After all, I believe in my own irrationallism. And that is ok in my book.
Irrationalism has frequently become the rationalism of the more enlightened.
I'll take RMJ over fucking Incog any day. Christ, Incog's shit is tired. Fucking troll.
'mout.
Thers
Me, too.
The "poor me" shit is tiresome.
Terry C, Pelosi Fan
Rmj is there. I suppose you already know that, fake ass. I haven't written anything I would ever take back. He can take his bible, and what it's done to us for thousands of years, and shove it up his ass, and the rest of you, also.
Doesn't matter if this or that is a sin -- 'ccording to the Man himself, "All have sinned, all have fallen short..."
So calling this or that a sin doesn't mean quite what many fundamentalists seem to think it does.
Fuck off. I asked Rmj a question and he split. Email him about it or something. According to him, I'm going to hell because of his religious dogma because I'm gay.
WHEN did HE say THAT?
You're bonkers!
Rmj is there. I suppose you already know that, fake ass. I haven't written anything I would ever take back. He can take his bible, and what it's done to us for thousands of years, and shove it up his ass, and the rest of you, also.
Ô¿Ô
Then why do you bother to show up here, you rude, ignorant little phoney?
Incog:
You're a sad, miserable, hateful person.
You see slights and insults where none exist.
Your "professional victim" act is tiresome.
Terry C, Pelosi Fan | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 1:36 pm | #
Oh, OK, I'm glad you cleared that up.
RMJ, EXPLAIN YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEF ABOUT THOSE LIKE ME AND NOT SPLIT LIKE A FUCKING COWARD.
Rmj is there. I suppose you already know that, fake ass. I haven't written anything I would ever take back. He can take his bible, and what it's done to
You want some cheese with that whine?
Dipshit.
RMJ, EXPLAIN YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEF ABOUT THOSE LIKE ME AND NOT SPLIT LIKE A FUCKING COWARD.
Are all queers like you?
Rmj is there. I suppose you already know that, fake ass. I haven't written anything I would ever take back. He can take his bible, and what it's done to
You want some cheese with that whine?
Dipshit.
billy b; west coast blues
Hey, guess what. He's reading all this. How brave, huh?
RMJ, YOU FUCKING RELIGIOUS FUCK, TAKE PEOPLE'S MONEY WITH YOUR JAYZUZ SCHITICK, FUCK OFF.
I find all attempts to insert religion into my government and American politics offensive.
It's unconstitutional, unAmerican and wrong and it offends me deeply.
Beyond that - I don't give a fuck what anyone believes. That's their business.
Tena | Homepage | 02.10.07 - 12:12 pm | #
Y'know, this pretty much sums it up for me too. Keep government and politics secular, and to each his or her own belief system.
er, try clicking on it.
All will be revealed.
Terry C, Pelosi Fan
Unfortunately many like me would not automatically click on the ad, perpetuating the lie and promoting the religious right's warped ideas. It reminds me of a National Geographic front page, "Was Darwin Wrong?" You had to open it for the obvious answer ("No.), but how many people just saw the cover and thought that his ideas were being questioned?
Is it okay to be pissed off by offensive drunks, even if they're gay?
Just wondering.
Hey nose job!
you gonna freak out this weekend too?
you gotta check your meds man....
Catholics don't believe the Pope is infallible -- common misconception. The doctrine of Papal infallability is a 19th century invention and only applies when the Pope speaks ex cathedra on a matter of doctrine, and that's never actually happened.
I think the Immaculate Conception of Mary is held to be an infallible papal ruling.
very well said. what?
Yes, I believe the Pope has only asserted infallibility twice, both on doctrines about Mary -- stuff that can't be proven in this life, so why not do it up bigtime?
BTW, most Catholics in America don't pay much attention to the pope or the bishops, unless they do or say something egregious (which they do on a regular basis) and then we curse them and cut off the donations, and then we go back to ignoring them. We pay some attention to our parish priest, unless he's an idiot, and then we don't pay much attention to him, either.
That's why Pope Benny was so surprised that something he said got people worked up -- he's used to being ignored.
My religion is boundless and timeless, because it's Humanity. As Little Crow (Lakota/Dakota) says, We are all sacred, we are all connected, and we are all accountable, forever. Everything I think, say and do is not for me, it's for all my relations, past, present and future.
For the present, let's boycott Exxon/Mobile into the forseeable future, and respect everyone as if they are our own children.
Is it okay to be pissed off by offensive drunks, even if they're gay?
Just wondering.
pseudonymous in nc
Y'mean, people who are suffering far worse than you are? Check your own tendency towards arrogance...
I dunno, I'm looking at this kitten and it's hard to think there's not some element of divinity in the universe.
fourlegsgood
If that magnificent and perrrfect divinity is not already a reflection of the purity of your own heart, fourlegsgood, then what is it?
To me, one of the biggest barriers to having any kind of honest discussion about the religion generally and religion in politics specifically has been in the rise of ecumenical and interfaith alliances of all kinds.
Really? That part, I don't get. What am I missing?
If anything, it seems to me more that a particular, minority brand of religion has been treated as if it defines "religion" in general -- blurring the tremendous variety in belief systems in this country by treating them as if they were all one particular belief system.
In part its the post-Enlightenment deal that takes religion out of the state, but also, it's the fact that they want negative freedom that upsets me, and makes me think they're as petty as a pack of teenage girls.
Luke
Luke, we might as well call intolerance what it really is, and pity the deluded for the harsh errors in judgement they continue to make.
In the Lotus Sutra, as well as in the Declaratiion of Indendence, all people are declared to be equal, and therefore equally worthy of profound respect.
Let's live that.
Really? That part, I don't get. What am I missing?
If anything, it seems to me more that a particular, minority brand of religion has been treated as if it defines "religion" in general -- blurring the tremendous variety in belief systems in this country by treating them as if they were all one particular belief system.
nascardaughter
I guess what we're all calling 'religion' today boils down to no longer just the "theory," but more to the point, the "practice." In other words, how does what we believe translate itself directly into what we think, say and do, how we relate to each other.
As my Great Teacher Nichiren says, "A Buddha is known in this world by his behavior as a human being."
To me, one of the biggest barriers to having any kind of honest discussion about the religion generally and religion in politics specifically has been in the rise of ecumenical and interfaith alliances of all kinds.
As a Chinese Buddhist sage said a thousand years ago, "All rivers flow to the sea."
Our tears are salty, our common faith is in Humanity, ourselves. The hill we are to climb is within, for all of us.
wear you faith
respect my face
one of the smartest things i've ever read about religion. oooh.
Not everyone does believe in many paths to God, but ecumenical people do. Stick to writing about what you know.
Not everyone does believe in many paths to God, but ecumenical people do. Stick to writing about what you know.
DelRPCV
Then it's obvious that at the very least, those that believe in many paths to the Creator are a bit more tolerant and open-minded than those who don't.
Agreed?
"I can understand the desire to get along and work together where possible, but it seems to have, to a great degree, led to the obscuring ofthe differences which exist and turned religion - at least its representation in our public discourse - into a bland and undefinable thing. "
Hate to disagree, but to me there are precisely zero differences between one religion and another - unless you mean all that trival bullshit they seem to love to gasbag and shoot each other about - "My one-true-god wears a pointy hat but you filthy pigs false-god wears a round hat, thus you must burn!" - kind of stuff...
I have no argument with "god", but religions suck ass. Windy fraidycats with big ideas about their special place in things, and an un-earned claim to moral superiority.
.
Despite the differences among religions, it is a fact that two religious people of different religion have something verge in common which they DON'T have in common with a non-believer, and almost every religious person will tell you that.
You claim that the differences are minimized by ecumenicism. In reality, they are exaggerated by those who aren't religious, and the COMMONALITIES are minimized.
Perhaps non-religious people should stop telling religious people what they're all about, and what their beliefs are.
Religious folks of different religions DO have a bond. You can't see it; they can't miss it.
Let me 'splain it to ya, big A, it's really very, very simple. "Religion," "faith," "belief," "spirituality," "sin," "eternal fucking damnation," etc., are all exactly what annieangel says they are; no more, no less. See? Really, really simple.
Most religious people who act offended *are* genuinely offended. Unfortunately, they've been trained from a young age to be offended by even resepectful criticism of their religious beliefs; it's part of the brainwashing which is so popular among many religions.
"I think the Immaculate Conception of Mary is held to be an infallible papal ruling."
Right -- there's one other, as well.
The Pope's declaration of his own infalliability was also, if I'm not very much mistaken, considered infalliable. (It was supposed to be a direct revelation from God.) Rather self-aggrandizing that one. Necessary in order for the infalliability not to be ignored, though.
I think no pope subsequent to the one who invented the concept has actually used it.
I find all attempts to insert religion into my government and American politics offensive. It's unconstitutional, unAmerican and wrong and it offends me deeply.
The above post highlights the utter ridiculousness ideas some liberals have on religion and politics.
Religion is inserted in to American politics on a daily basis often by Democrats and occassionally by liberals. Do you remember John Kerry speaking about why he supported certain domestic programs - 'we are judged not just on our beliefs but on our works.' Straight out of Catholicism 101. Do Dennis Kucinich, John Lewis, Dave Bonoir, Bob Drinan, the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. ring any bells?
Secondly religion in politics is not unconstitutional. In regards to religion the Constitution guarantees two things - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." That is it. Separation of church and state is not explicity laid out in the text but arrived at via an interpretation of the establishment clause. Read the damn thing. Thirdly, religion in politics is certainly not unAmerican. The second permanent white settlement was founded by religious dissidents fleeing persecution and two early colonies were created specifically as refuges for specific religious denominations? Religion has been part of American politics ever since and has been used by both abolitionists and segregationists to justify their conduct.
Why don't we all just say what we mean - I don't like it when people use religion to enact policies I disapprove of and some religious figures are sanctimonious bigots.
Plum P - If you attended a Jesuit school that fact you turned out to be an atheist was not a flaw but a design.
Tena - I am not superior to you just smarter and better looking.
And you know, there are certain songs from the 70s that really offend me. You know that one about Tim, and how his companions ATE HIM? Boy, that offended me-- cannibalism on the radio, and the singer pretending he couldn't remember eating Tim--
My point is-- even if you are offended without the quote marks, what does that mean? That doesn't mean I'm wrong, or that I shouldn't do what I'm doing, or that your being offended has the weight of moral law.
This is not martyrdom, having your religious doctrine criticized or even satirized. You can criticize or satirize my atheism all you like-- I promise not to call the police on you. But then, I'm not insecure about my own beliefs.
Pippen is absolutely correct about satire and that should hold him/her in good stead while he/she is tormented for eternity in hell.
I'm still looking for a discussion of the pros and cons of inter-faith alliances in this discussion thread. I don't see any. Did I miss something or was the thread derailed from the get-go?
Marcus Aurelius (Roman Emperor 161 - 180),
Ten Counsels in Response to Being Offended. (History of Ethics, 30 BC to 1300 AD - The Age of Belief, pg. 251)
First, remember your close bond with all humans.
Second, consider their characters.
Third, if their action is not right, it can only be unintentional or ignorant.
Fourth, you offend in various ways and are not different.
Fifth, you can not be sure they are doing wrong, for there may be other motives.
Sixth, remind yourself that mortal life is brief.
Seventh, it is not their actions that annoys, but your interpretation of it.
Eighth, our anger is more detrimental to us than what causes the anger.
Ninth, Genuine kindness is irresistible; a gentle word of admonition often is enough.
Tenth, to expect bad people never to do bad things is impossible; to tolerate their offenses against others and expect none against yourself is irrational.
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