I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
first?
second?
triple?
in the park home run?
Oh, stop.
It's just nice to share something with Ichiro!
I can imagine.
Congrats, doug r
They won't feel bad cause they'll have that Republican cock in their mouths that makes them feel warm and safe at night.
I'd call sheets downstairs, but I find some bugs creepy...
No regrets.
Only smart move for a Democratic president is to immediately dismantle all the pieces of the GOP power grab.
Fresh thread and the daughter "needs" the computer for her game. I guess sharing will set a nice example...sigh...
That would be an epic irk.
-
"Candidate Obama Unveils His Own Presidential Seal, Featuring A Winged Black Escalade Hovering Over The Bust Of Minister Farrakhan..."
you g-g-g-g-go, Ob-b-b-b-bama dude!
Voting is for masochists.
Atrios FTW!!!
All of those powers which were necessary to prevent the instant destruction of the country will instantly become impeachable offenses.
But the Republicans are honorable people! They would never chide the Democrats for threatening a filibuster as dishonorable cheating and then use it routinely themselves.
There is no answer for this. At least at this time. I have no wisdom to share.
You all are smarter than I am.
Carry on.
Hello moonbats 
I believe....
Blow jobs are neccessary to prevent the destruction of the country?
Who knew?
If you can't imagine how such a pivot can take place then you haven't been paying attention.
Yep.
Wow, talk about hitting a nail right on the head.
Good call Atrios. And personally I will be laughing my ass off when it happens.
From below -
But after a century, it's time.
Not a Brewer's fan?
Ralphie
Not since Selig and Bando went to the cash-management side of the ledger and let Molitor go.
I actually dreamed of Molitor last night. And Don Money.
I predict it will be about November 10th or so, when Broder et al will be demanding that the democrats share power with the Republican minority in congress, and for Obama to put half Republicans in his cabinet.
I do worry that with all the new powers which have come in with Labour will end up being abused even more horribly by an even more unscrupulous government
I tell ya Britain is sleeping walking into a totalitarian future
And personally I will be laughing my ass off when it happens.
Also known as wearescrewedenfreude.
its crazy, the 28 days detention has not even been used yet and the British government has increased it to 42 days!
and 'just in case' is total bollocks
Nap time...later.
Goddamnit! I was born 30 years too early.
the government has run out of ideas so much so that they have resorted to micromanaging everything
they need to be told to back the fuck off sometimes
All of those powers which were necessary to prevent the instant destruction of the country will instantly become impeachable offenses. If you can't imagine how such a pivot can take place then you haven't been paying attention.
The dastardly Repukkkes are capable of any outrage. That's why almost every one should be defeated, leaving just enough for a losing bowling team.
regrets? I've had a few ...
its crazy, the 28 days detention has not even been used yet and the British government has increased it to 42 days! and 'just in case' is total bollocks -Moonbootica
You'll be singing a different tune when the streets are overrun with zombies.
Britain really is going to the dogs thats for sure
fucking venal government
regrets? I've had a few ...
focus
I did it MYYYY way.
June 21, 2008. Atrios called it.
He's absolutely right. This is precisely what the Republicans and their media allies are going to do to Obama. The only question is whether they'll time it for the 2010 or 2012 elections.
And yet again Democrats show how monumentally stupid they are.
Atrios is confused here. The Republicans do not need the pretext of expanded presidential powers for such an attack. Check the outrage that they generated when Clinton sacked the non-civil service White House employees in the travel office!
Britain really is going to the dogs thats for sure
fucking venal government
Moonbootica, Latitude 2008
Good thing you have that Dog Training lady.
I've been trying as hard as I can not to pay attention, but unfortunately I see exactly what you're talking about.
So blow jobs are still OK?
Walkies!
Gordon Brown is to urge oil-rich nations to invest some of their trillions of dollars in profits into Britain's nuclear power projects.
The prime minister will fly to Jeddah in Saudi Arabia later in a bid to secure a "new deal" between oil producers and consumers in the West.
Mr Brown said he wants them to help reduce reliance on fossil fuels.
His efforts come as the government seeks to increase the UK's use of nuclear and renewable energy sources.
Energy Minister Malcolm Wicks told BBC Radio 4's Today programme Britain could not lower fuel prices on its own.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_po...ics/
7467151.stm
Good thing you have that Dog Training lady.
Gomez
Can we hire her to housebreak Pelosi and Hoyer?
my dad has again over a 100 bottles of wine
Thinking we might give them the benefit of the doubt, being honorable men and all, I mean with the lovely examples we have been treated to these past 16 years, and even here, in our very midst, by their loyal representatives who embark on making helpful comments to further the debate and share their wisdom with us....I'm sure this is all a tempest in a teapot, and the good people in Washington are looking out for what is best for all of us....pass the kool aid please bugs?
Dems surrender on FISA with not a shot fired, and worse, they cover up for Bush.
I just dont understand it. Bush is worse than Nixon and the Dems enable him instead of challenging.
Truly, we need to make an example of the Steny.
"my dad has again over a 100 bottles of wine"
Moonbootica, Latitude 2008
(Makes a note to invite him to the next Eschacon...)
Nigerian militants have blown up an oil pipeline near US corporation Chevron's Escravos oilfields, the Nigerian military says.
Chevron said the attack prompted it to shut down onshore oil production.
The loss equates to about 120,000 barrels per day, about 6.6% of Nigeria's total daily crude production.
Earlier this week Nigeria's president ordered tighter security in the Niger Delta, after an attack on Shell's main offshore facility.
According to the BBC's Alex Last, in Lagos, sources in the western Niger Delta believe the latest attack is the work of illegal oil
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ica/
7467331.stm
my dad has again over a 100 bottles of wine
Good for your Dad. StevenLG would like to meet him.
Gomez seems to have blow jobs on his mind.
Jimmy/Jeff isn't really affiliated with the National Press Club. He just wants you to think he is. Heh.
(Digby)
fired up and
disappointed.
fired up and
let down.
fired up and
triangulated.
thanks, OB.
The original two-edged sword.
Agreed.
Agreed.
I predict it will be about November 10th or so, when Broder et al will be demanding that the democrats share power with the Republican minority in congress, and for Obama to put half Republicans in his cabinet.
trifecta
very good, trifecta!
Matt Y has a post up about Broder's buckraking gigs:
http://
matthewyglesias.theatlant...oders_bucks.php
Ken Silverstein has been writing about them this week, too.
Broder broke the rules!
"I am embarrassed by these mistakes and the embarrassment it has caused the paper,'' Broder said.
Now lets hear from Bob Woodward, too.
I did it MYYYY way.
noblejoanie
hey, ol' green eyes is back ...
Britain's No1 - A controversial deal with Saudi Arabia catapulted Britain to the top of the world arms export league last year, as UK firms won a record £10bn in orders from overseas, official figures show.
The figure amounts to a third of all worldwide export orders for military equipment, ministers and arms companies reported. An essentially political, government-to-government contract - the sale of 72 Eurofighter/Typhoon aircraft, for £4.4bn, to the Saudis - accounted for Britain's number one position, the figures make clear.
The Ministry of Defence says the terms of the contract - called Salam, Arabic for peace - and the total expenditure involved are confidential. But officials make it clear that when upkeep, spares and training were included, the deal could amount to £20bn spread over many years. The figures last year were also boosted by orders placed by Oman and Trinidad and Tobago for patrol boats.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/
...ade.saudiarabia
Britain might not be the power it once was but it still can export death
Gomez seems to have blow jobs on his mind.
We were discussing impeachment. That always involves a blow job.
Our party's so afraid of being labeled "weak" by the same media they enabled in the Telecommunications Act of 1996
wow, finally atrios has gone of the deep-end.
wtf is wrong with people? If he strips immunity, what is wrong with this bill?
Gomez seems to have blow jobs on his mind.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
chrisnyc....go see glenn greenwald and get educated.
"Will" regret?
I've regretted the expansion of executive power since the invocation of the 'state secret' nonsense in what, 1946?
The twinning of increased executive power and war is ineluctable. In the case of the Shrubbery there is some suspicion that one may have been the ambition of the other.
Here's a nice picture of the feral kitty who's living on my front porch these days. http://www.gwpda.org/little.jpg
Fuel tanker drivers who went on strike over pay have formally accepted a 14% wage rise, bringing an end to their bitter dispute, it was announced today.
Unite said its members at Hoyer and Suckling - the two haulage firms which deliver fuel to Shell garages - had overwhelmingly voted in favour of the two-year deal.
Hundreds of drivers staged a four-day walkout over last weekend, hitting supplies to Shell garages across the UK.
Gerry McKenna, lead negotiator for Hoyer welcomed the announcement, adding: "We are pleased our drivers have accepted this competitive pay deal and the threat of industrial action has been lifted."
Unite said its members voted by 453 to 56 in favour of the deal which will give drivers a 9% pay rise this year and a further 5% next year.
The union said the basic pay of drivers will be lifted to £36,000 for a 48-hour week although the companies maintained their average pay will be over £40,000.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/
200...ort.tradeunions
For all the consternation about forgiving the telecoms, there is the fact that the compromise attempts to restore the 4th Amendment and stop the government from doing what they were doing. The telecoms are not getting immunity.
Glenn Greenwald needs an editor.
wtf is wrong with people? chrisnyc
little arms, broken hearts, and they don't copulate enough ...
temporary powers granted in times of war usually end up as permanent
not all do of course but its such a good excuse to introduce more draconian laws
You bloggers could GET control of Obama ANYTIME you feel like it.
I advocate letting the money well run dry to get Obama's attention. Stop the flow of money - since Obama decide against public money - ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LET THE FLOW OF MONEY RUN DRY.
Just put the word out. Make Obama beg - "what do I got-a-do".
Obama might not be able to control a corrupt congress - but no reason to tolerate Obama's latest cowardly act in the agreeing to the event. Just put the word out- no money dipshit. Either come around or else.
Call it bribery, extortion, whatever you want but why would you pay the bill to a landlord this insist on trashing the US Constitution? Really, it's just business. We pay Obama money for doing a job - but he isn't doing it. So if Obama is foregoing public financing, you guys are holding the purse strings, you are holding the keys - I would darn sure make use of that control.
Put the word out, no retroactive immunity OR NO money because, you know, money doesn't grow on trees son. You bloggers have control - you have control - USE IT. Damn USE IT. Stop complaining and use it.
Aunty, cute picture.
In NYC, if you feed a cat for so many days, you are considered the cat's owner and are responsible for said cat. I think the number is 30, but am not certain.
and i hate those people who talk about it being for our own good and that its necessary
no it fucking isn't
Too bad that nice Reagan man isn't still alive. He made sense to me. ever since then it has been waaaaaay over my head.
Tennis?
Atrios makes a good point. The methods now in practice in the bureacracy are in the process of being institutionalized.
That means, in practical terms, that the spying programs, et al, will go on without Obama's first-hand knowledge, unless he goes to extraordinary lengths to root it all out--with the full cooperation of Congress--along with removing the ideologues the Bushies have planted in the civil service.
What the Bushies do not want revealed right now--and is the reason why immunity for telecoms is so very important to them--is that they have been using the national security apparatus for political purposes and to manage the press.
If such has become standard practice in government, Obama becomes the unwitting victim of that the moment the `pugs finds evidence of that practice in his administration.
No shit.
and you know politicians act like WATB, complaning about how the population doesn't trust them
why should we trust them when they introduce 42 days detention?
or stick up for someone they are supposed to dislike
politicians - fuck them
if they don't trust us why should we invest any trust in them?
If he strips immunity, what is wrong with this bill?
You don't get it do you?
for Snow - watch this video!
Get the most MPGs out of your Prius
If the telecoms get immunity for breaking the law, what of Qwest? They refused to go along and were passed over for lucrative contracts with the government. There would have to be some justice.
Obama becomes the unwitting victim of that the moment the `pugs finds evidence of that practice in his administration.
montag
e.g. what do you hear about McCain violating the law about taking funds for the primary before he didn't - under his own ethics leg. Listen to that ! nothing. Now Obama ....
hah i read somewhere that Politicians are just above estate agents in being loathed
The methods now in practice in the bureacracy are in the process of being institutionalized.
The merger of business and government is virtually complete.
The merger of business and government is virtually complete.
Snow
And isn't that the very definition of fascism?
In NYC, if you feed a cat for so many days..
I ain't feeding these katz. Water - yes. In this heat, not to would be criminal. But their on their own for dinner. And, I will be paying for their neutering.
Belgium of course has not had a political government in quite awhile
oh its still being run but not in the way you think it would
i imagine there is a broad consensus by the population should be run and so it continues to work
The 'bush legacy' is happening right now in TX you know.
see http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com/
try that if you;re a Dem
http://www.gwpda.org/little.jpg
GWPDA
Cute kitty. Its eyes look very blue. That kitty would never grant immunity to telcos, I can tell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z...h?
v=ZFT5CBvGa7c
All my regrets.
For all the consternation about forgiving the telecoms, there is the fact that the compromise attempts to restore the 4th Amendment and stop the government from doing what they were doing. The telecoms are not getting immunity.
Snow (WF-SC
Please explain, snow.
Hopefully after the election the republic delegation in congress will be too tiny and impotent to do anything really destructive.
How to win friends and influence people
The merger of business and government is virtually complete.
Umm, may be true, but, that's not my point. I'm speaking, specifically, of the misuse of the intelligence services for the purposes of discrediting or intimidating political opponents.
The corporate influence is serious, but is a means to an end, in this instance.
Has anyone noticed, that the Oil industry doesn't need a 'refinery fire' anymore, as a pretense to raise gasoline prices?
That kitty would never grant immunity to telcos, I can tell.
That kitty took down her first pidgeon the other day.
Obama becomes the unwitting victim of that the moment the `pugs finds evidence of that practice in his administration.
montag
Oh come on. They'll accuse him of abuse of power for painting the family quarters of the white house without authorization. They'll insist that he does not have the right to fire generals or to appoint prosecutors. They will scream about checks and balances if he signs an executive order mandating use of recycled paper or recognizing gay scouts or in appreciation of the fire department of greenville kansas or ...
For some reason, I'd never heard of this, but what an interesting life:
Anne C. Martindell, who entered politics in her 50s, found true love as ambassador to New Zealand in her 60s, earned a college degree in her 80s and published a memoir titled “Never Too Late” in her 90s, died on Wednesday in Princeton, N.J. She was 93.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/
1...agewanted=print
Out to function in meatspace.
Be nice to the fledglings.
All my regrets.
Ralphie
I prefer The Sex Pistols
My prediction: you'll see Judicial Watch or other orgs pushing for the juicy details. And all the GOP Judiciary Committee types who kept their cakeholes shut will discover a passion for civil liberties.
But there's an alternative scenario: more better Dems take advantage of expanded majorities. Yeah, I know.
Yes we can trust anyone tomorrow to cure something their cowardice and lack of leadership allowed them to screw up today.
Yes we can continue rejoice and praise the current slate dems that betrayed the voters that put them in power in '06.
Yes we can continue to allow the government(with the able and now soon to be immune efforts of the telcos) to violate and eviscerate the 4th Amendment with due respect for the people.
Yes we can believe Obama is not another fucking fraud in a long line of the same.
Yes we can go to work everyday and pay taxes to proudly fund a government that can and does spy on us in violation of the Constituion with impunity.
Yes we can stay in Iraq until 2108.
Yes we can.
The ACLU rep on WashJournal this a.m. says they're filing charges against the telecoms anyway.
If the telecoms get immunity for breaking the law, what of Qwest? They refused to go along and were passed over for lucrative contracts with the government. There would have to be some justice.
qlª
Wouldn't it be something if Qwest got penalized for not having gone along with the fascists?
That kitty took down her first pidgeon the other day.
GWPDA
Mighty hunter kitty.
Oh come on. They'll accuse him of abuse of power for painting the family quarters of the white house without authorization. They'll insist that he does not have the right to fire generals or to appoint prosecutors. They will scream about checks and balances if he signs an executive order mandating use of recycled paper or recognizing gay scouts or in appreciation of the fire department of greenville kansas or ...
Ah, well, as fond as I am of hyperbole, you know that none of that would prompt impeachment with a Democratic Congress. Spying for illicit purposes, however indefinitely defined, would. Democrats would have no choice but to go along to separate themselves from the perceived illegality. Note that this was precisely the mechanism which pushed Nixon's impeachment forward in 1974.
I prefer The Sex Pistols
We differ.
And isn't that the very definition of fascism?
Yes.
We differ.
Ralphie
And, I will be paying for their neutering.
GWPDA
Never doubted that for a second.
Goddess, I would love to get another kitten. They are so much fun.
I wonder if my lack of disappointment in Obama is because I'm so old and cynical I never expected all that much to begin with.
We differ.
Ralphie
The only compliment today, Thank you.
Why Tony Benn is wrong to back David Davis
Yes we ca--
Your concern is noted.
I wonder if my lack of disappointment in Obama is because I'm so old and cynical I never expected all that much to begin with.
If by "old and cynical" you mean "intelligent and not easily snowed", you'd be right.
Wouldn't it be something if Qwest got penalized for not having gone along with the fascists?
Bobby St. Chomsky
From what I've read they were. They may be suing or something cause they're the ones who broke the story that the regime was doing all this illicit wiretapping before 9/11. I believe it was in a depo, but I'm not sure.
I wonder if my lack of disappointment in Obama is because I'm so old and cynical I never expected all that much to begin with.
Expect what you wish. As I said earlier, Oh, I forgot what I said.
Celebrating solstice? not much next to the Big Muddy,
at http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com/
I prefer The Sex Pistols.
Think that was actually post-Pistols...
i'm currently reading The Gods That Failed: How Blind Faith in Markets Has Cost Us Of Future by Larry Elliot and Dan Atkinson (also authors of Fantasy Island: Waking up to the Incredible Economic, Political and Social illusions of the Blair Legacy)
good stuff!
From what I've read they were. They may be suing or something cause they're the ones who broke the story that the regime was doing all this illicit wiretapping before 9/11. I believe it was in a depo, but I'm not sure.
qlª
But we need illegal spying to prevent another 9/11! Are you saying it didn't?
FReeper plans trip to Iraq:
A year or two from now, Iraq will be a normally functioning democracy.
Five years or so from now, I and a few others plan to return as tourists and wander around with no body armor on and no weapons on our hips.
I want to see that museum in Baghdad and the ancient ruins at Babylon, Ur and Nineveh.
I'd at least have a concealed weapon if I were you. You could flash it to the rug merchant and get some great discounts.
Glenn Greenwald has asked people to write to this address complaining of Barack Obama's FISA position. If you are of a mind,
bburton@barackobama.com
Five years or so from now, I and a few others plan to return as tourists
Return? When were you there?
And isn't that the very definition of fascism?
Yes.
Snow (WF-SC)
It is an old dictionary definition, circa 19 something or other. It;s is one aspect of the phenomenon. Orwell felt the term had become meaningless. Neiwert has written on the subject and I like what he's done with the latest studies and research.
For all the consternation about forgiving the telecoms, there is the fact that the compromise attempts to restore the 4th Amendment and stop the government from doing what they were doing. The telecoms are not getting immunity.
Snow (WF-SC
I sort of think that remains to be seen but I hope you are correct. Non lawyers and those who are not students of legal history don't realize that the fourth was never enforced in federal courts until the exclusionary rule in Week, 1914. And state courts didn't get around to it until Mapp v. Ohio in 1960. So it's not like 200 plus years of liberty has been swept away by the stroke of a pen. More like 50 to not quite 100.
FReeper plans trip to Iraq
Hey, the little asshole can bop right down to his enlistment office now
He doesn't have to wait.
Obama is a wimp and will never ever get my vote now! hope and change (what a joke)!
DWD This is for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7...h?
v=7sXGT0WhFnU
http://www.gwpda.org/little.jpg
GWPDA
Cute kitty. Its eyes look very blue. That kitty would never grant immunity to telcos, I can tell.
Willendorf Venus | 06.21.08 - 3:25 pm |
My Spike won't be granting immunity, either.
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
2...096501088UfCzDZ
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/
2...096501088rZjpdD
Five years or so from now, I and a few others plan to return as tourists
Return? When were you there?
Snow (WF-SC)
In his head.
He dreamed it all up while he was watching "Red Dawn."
Weeks v. US,
And Don King, the fight promoter with the wacky hair was the informant who called the cops on Dolly Mapp.
I did not know that.
Think that was actually post-Pistols...
dave™©
OK. It was just the first one that came up on YouTube. I watched a documentary video on there last week where everyone involved was dogging ol' sid for not being able to play an instrument & stuff. I thought that was the whole point.
Oh I only hope they DO eavesdrop on my calls! That way, I might be able to figure out if I ordered that extra fifth of Johnny Walker form the New Canaan package store or not...how HELPful!
WHAT will they think of next?!
OT Doesn't Nancy sport those Hermes Scarves just marvelously?
Obama is a wimp and will never ever get my vote now! hope and change (what a joke)!
DEMON SEED
Yeah..............and?
Atrios-- a bit of a twist on your point in the post: yesterday I condemned BHO on FISA. Today the dark thought entered my mind that perhaps the Dems have "softened" on FISA, to the benefit of the executive power-grab, becuase they are feeling good about their chances to take power in Nov/Jan, & they want the dark sode of the force available to them, too!
I sort of think that remains to be seen but I hope you are correct.
I ain't feeding these katz. Water - yes. In this heat, not to would be criminal. But their on their own for dinner. And, I will be paying for their neutering.
U should feed them.
In return, they will control those pesky rodents for you.
Haloscam SUCKS today. It's those bloody gravatars.
I wonder if my lack of disappointment in Obama is because I'm so old and cynical I never expected all that much to begin with.
I read his policy platforms which are fairly centrist. And campaigns always move towards the opponent's point in the general election, so I wasn't at all surprised that a centrist candidate would come across as looking somewhat right at this point.
Much of the discussion about change was done by his campaign creator earlier here in Massachusetts, and I was aware of that as well as what has actually changed since then.
am glad to see a lot of the young getting active in politics, but gawd are the naive. duncan has a good grasp of the true republican slash and burn style politics. guess the new to this game have a lot to learn, but at what cost?
I sort of think that remains to be seen but I hope you are correct.
I tried to say, I hope I am correct too. They make it very difficult to believe.
I sort of think that remains to be seen but I hope you are correct.
Snow (WF-SC)
It really sucks. I am really interested in your take. I'll be patient.
;p
fourlegs, Maxxine at http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com/
...atblogging.html
That kitty took down her first pidgeon the other day.
How is her brother doing?
I tried to say, I hope I am correct too. They make it very difficult to believe.
Snow (WF-SC)
Absolutely. I think Greenwald's point is that it is better not to just sit back and believe in the the better angels of politicians. They must be minded, herded and cajoled.
Not for nothing, but isn't it a little silly to assume that Obama is completely unaware of how the republicans operate?
Atrios, I think you're right about this, but I have to admit I am not imaginative enough to consider how their could ever ever be any such thing as an impeachable offense ever again.
Reg Dwight, I was trying to take Obama's word for it. I really want to believe they think they are doing the right thing.
I personally think FISA should be repealed.
Exactly right.
In fact, I expect serious impeachment talk before May 1, 2009 if Obama is elected.
You know, for GWD (governing while Democratic.)
I watch hawks take down doves every day. It's nature people ,
.
that is a sweet little kitten
Jerry: Being a Democrat and in the White House is a prima facie case for impeachment.
Surely this is obvious...
Absolutely. I think Greenwald's point is that it is better not to just sit back and believe in the the better angels of politicians. They must be minded, herded and cajoled.
Well, that is one reason I am running. Did run. Will run. Whatever I am doing right now.
Snow, where are you in the election thing? I heard it was reeeeeallly close, but what happens now?
Let's see, Impeachment off the table, Complete
destruction of the Constitution, A free pass for
any thug in the White House. Fuck 'em all.
Pelosi and Reid should look for new jobs and some
new spines. mofo might be correct about the dark side. I hear real estte is cheap on the Mexican coast.
i'm sure the kitten needs to be wormed too
Republicans are going to be screeching about a lot of things.
But they're going to be in such a minority it's not going to matter.
They were able to pull off their bullshit against Clinton because they controlled the house.
Well, that is one reason I am running. Did run. Will run. Whatever I am doing right now.
My belated congratulations on your good showing. Way to go! One day we can all say that we knew you then....
Dems have "softened" on FISA, to the benefit of the executive power-grab,
*
HIGH DEMs are mostly all culpable to the FISA abuse - those who were privy to the Bush intel, anyway.
This is about CYA now. The telecom lobby $$ is no small part of it.
BHO is probably needing to line up the ducks to get safely in office.
Well, that is one reason I am running. Did run. Will run. Whatever I am doing right now.
Snow (WF-SC)
What's the latest word on that, btw. Recount automatic? And congrats, that is too close not to be considered a victory in some sense.
Atrios, I think you're right about this, but I have to admit I am not imaginative enough to consider how their could ever ever be any such thing as an impeachable offense ever again.
Ah, you've forgotten: IOKIYAR.
The contrast between the last seven years and change and the Clinton years ought to be extreme enough to show exactly how the process works when the `pugs want to work that process....
Thks, moi, she's WarOnWarOff's, and a treat .... very playful.
sheety sheets
broderish owls!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's actually going to rain here.
YAY!!
Well, that is one reason I am running. Did run. Will run. Whatever I am doing right now.
My belated congratulations on your good showing.
*
Sounds like you are doing well, Snow.
I personally think FISA should be repealed.
I don't think you mean what you're saying here.
The original FISA was instituted to prevent the very abuses which are now being legalized by amendment to FISA.
Not for nothing, but isn't it a little silly to assume that Obama is completely unaware of how the republicans operate?
fourlegsgood, shambler | Homepage | 06.21.08 - 3:52 pm | #
Yes, it is. He knows how to play political hardball.
Also ...
Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004).[20]
In 1993 Obama joined Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 12-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development, where he was an associate for three years from 1993 to 1996, then of counsel from 1996 to 2004, with his law license becoming inactive in 2002.[8][21]
Not that that means anything, but it's not like the guy was a corporate litigator.
controlled the house.
fourlegsgood, shambler
You are right, don't shamble so much.
It is my belief that all people are born equal and are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights. I believe that governments are established with the consent of the governed but are limited from taking certain actions. The Bill of Rights does not create a bunch of rights granted to US citizens by their government. It is a set of restrictions imposed by those citizens upon that government.
Greenwald with a quote a poster left in comments
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." - John Adams [1772].
It is my belief that all people are born equal and are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights. I believe that governments are established with the consent of the governed but are limited from taking certain actions. The Bill of Rights does not create a bunch of rights granted to US citizens by their government. It is a set of restrictions imposed by those citizens upon that government.
Snow (WF-SC)
yep.
I don't think you mean what you're saying here.
I most certainly do. Our government is not authorized to search anyone but upon a showing of probable cause.
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." - John Adams [1772].
qlª
Yeah but, then Adams turned right around and gave us the Alien and Sedition Acts, as if to prove his point.
Reg Dwight:
And isn't that the very definition of fascism?
Yes.
Snow (WF-SC)
It is an old dictionary definition, circa 19 something or other.
It was Mussolini's definition.
qlª | Homepage | 06.21.08 - 3:59 pm | #
That quote is as true today as it was in the 18th century.
The problem is DC has become entirely too pwerful and the thought of being in control of real time all the time ability to search the e-mail and phone traffic of all citizens gives politicians a power woodrow.
DC needs to lose an enormous amount of power before things will change.
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Soprano
sheets everybody
Hi, ErinPDX!
Hope all is well with you.
I think everyone has gone upstairs.
obama should use bush's powers to spy on republicans and throw them in all concentration camps without habeus corpus. what's good for the arab goose is good for the american gander.
I just re-read the Fourth Amendment.
Says that the redcoats/cops can't kick down your door and look at your personal stuff without a warrant.
With a warrant, they can.
I just don't see ANYTHING that says if you pick up a telephone to chit-chat with whomever OUTSIDE the four walls of your house, it's a violation of any right for anybody to listen in.
Government creeps included.
I'm actually amazed that some judge somewhere construed this thing to protect the "privacy" of telephone conversations, and that a warrant was ever required to tap anyone's telephone!
yup.
Snow (WF-SC)"...restoring the 4th Amendment...".
And that is exactly the problem - the 4th Amendment was never revoked! All this is, is about enforcing the law! And the Democrats in the House; and apparently the Senate, too, refuse to enforce the law. I understand money and fear are involved.
FISA is not now, and has never been, broken. FISA, the opnly legal way to carry out intelligence wiretaps, has simply been ignored by the present administration - a flagrant crime in itself. There is also the question of why it has been ignored. Is it just an attempt to aggrandize presidential power? Or is it because Bush and his cronies were doing the same things that got Nixon impeached? The "immunity" clauses in the Bill will prevent us from ever finding out.
And there is the complete revocation of the 4th Amendment privileges to privacy - the government is authorized to spy on anyone simply on the President's say-so. That last may not stand up to court scrutiny,but it should never have been in there at all!
The anger at Sen. Obama is because he is apparently willing to put politics above the Constitution; just as the cowardly Democrats in the House have done.
On another blog (with a lot of orange colored trimmings), someone was posting about how we just had to calm down and let Obama win the White House and then everything would be okay! It doesn't work that way - Sen. Obama, as well as Hoyer, et al, took an oath to defend the Constitution when they took their seats in Congress. Well, we now know where Hoyer and Pelosi stand concerning the Constitution and I guess we're about to find out where the Senator from Illinois stands.
I hope to God it's with the Constitution!
Atrios is 100% right here. Just watch.
wobbly, the 4th amendment was always intended to make your papers and effects safe from government intrusion. do you honestly believe that e-mail aren't part of your personal papers? retard. if you weren't a moran - and you are - you would realize that long before the telephone or the internet, we had mail; there would be ample legal precedent if, as in your theory, the 4th amendment didn't apply to interpersonal communications.
if you don't believe me, just go ahead and fuck with the mail. hope it works out for you.
or better yet, move to a country, like China, that is more in tune with your idea of individual rights. since you don't love America, please leave.
I have written a over a thousand times in a few places what I think of nobama and crew. I'm probably the only one on this planet, besides my sister, who saw this coming. Now, so that you, Atrios, can be at the top of the list, I'm going to tell you not to worry. Nobama isn't going to vote for this bill. He's going to do what he always does. Not be present and not vote at all. As anyone who has done a little research knows, this is usually his modus operandi. As for fixing it when he's installed as king purple pee? Puhlease! Don't make me laugh! What a bunch of gullabulls! Hoodwinked and bamboozled by the Flimflam Man from Nowhere, Bamboozle. What a hoot, what a riot!
Obama was against the war but not against the presidential power expansion.
He isn't going to root anything out. He is going to use the power to spy on his enemies. He isn't going to disable the expansion of power, he is going to use it.
David Brooks was wrong. There aren't two Obamas. There is one. The one that will throw you under a bus for a vote.
Bloggers don't control this candidate who isn't "new" and "improved." He is the same as the old boss. He will be the Democrats very own George W. It is about him, not anything but him. Bloggers will make excuses for their fearless leader. Obama isn't concerned about bloggers and drying up money--most are still too blinded by his ability to cloud men's minds. He is voting with a special interest group--corporate telecommunications--which is a huge special interest group.
Bloggers have simply funded Obama and served their purpose. He is in the arms of success now and will be as conventional as any other political type.
Let me share with you all my predicted new Republican/MSM catchphrase, circa about six weeks from now: "the many Obama scandals and missteps."
Duncan nails it as always. I lot of younger people don't recall 1992 and the way the Reublicans behaved (and bullied the weak-minded MSM into behaving.)
I believe there's a current "awakening" in the press that maybe they've been a bit soft on old GWB, and they are preparing to come roaring after BHO with renewed vigor, "never again" to let a President get a pass.
It'll be interesting to see what differences there will be this time around. After all, Bill Clinton was different than Jimmy Carter, in terms of smear jobs...
Of course, it's also IOKIYAO.
I'm sure Pelosi will have impeachment out on the table big time with all the trimmings for Obama.
The one thing the R's don't realize is that for the first time in a long time, in Obama they face a cunning opponent even better at playing the media than they are. It's going to be an interesting race.
As I've written before, Democrats will regret embracing the expansion of executive power because a President Obama will find his administration undone by an "abuse of power" scandal. All of those powers which were necessary to prevent the instant destruction of the country will instantly become impeachable offenses. If you can't imagine how such a pivot can take place then you haven't been paying attention
Thanks for coming around to my exact position. It speaks very well of your political acuity.
I don't agree. Bill Clinton wasn't impeached over Waco, he was impeached over a blow job. Impeachment for unconstitutional excesses of executive power is off the table, for both parties.
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