I did call sheets.
Ralphie |
04.12.08 - 7:58 am | #
Maybe not loud enough.
Ralphie |
04.12.08 - 7:58 am | #
It's true, he did. I heard him.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 7:58 am | #
Atrios is determined to bury my blogwhore.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 7:58 am | #
38 visitor online on the wall...
MP |
04.12.08 - 7:58 am | #
I heard.
Moe Szyslak, cold |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 7:58 am | #
SteveNS,
Going to see TNP tomorrow. Woohoo!
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 7:59 am | #
Good post, Molly.
Ralphie |
04.12.08 - 7:59 am | #
38 visitor online on the wall...
I'm in the bushes, being accosted by numerous cats.
Well, it's actually my office (of olden days...).
Barndog, not currently fishing |
04.12.08 - 8:00 am | #
I agree. Good post Molly. Triangulation, and Ratzo both suck.
trifecta |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:00 am | #
You just want to see his penis.
He's a very cute boy.
Molly Ivors | Homepage | 04.12.08 - 7:58 am |
A little young for me, now, but yes he is a cute boy.
Buckeye. Dealer of Rare Coins |
04.12.08 - 8:01 am | #
stop the presses: obama drinks juice!
SHUSTER: Well, here's the other thing that we saw on the tape, Chris, is that, when Obama went in, he was offered coffee, and he said, "I'll have orange juice."
MATTHEWS: No.
SHUSTER: He did.
one million iraqui widows concur: something is wrong that must be redressed when a man chooses juice over coffee.
juan non o |
04.12.08 - 8:01 am | #
Aw man, lucky! Have a blast, Molly!
What time's the show? I will bounce up and down remotely.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:01 am | #
Molly, we have a Dallas morning news reporter who did an op ed recently about how covering the abuse scandals turned him away from the catholic church. I posted on it, and one of my commenters had known the reporter in HS. funny.
Ruth |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:01 am | #
MATTHEWS: No.
SHUSTER: He did.
Hardball: MSNBC's answer to the National Enquirer.
Barndog, not currently fishing |
04.12.08 - 8:02 am | #
SteveNS,
Tomorrow at 8, in Ithaca.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:02 am | #
Obama went in, he was offered coffee, and he said, "I'll have orange juice."
MATTHEWS: No.
SHUSTER: He did.
In no way is this NOT the stupidest exchange I ever read.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:02 am | #
SHUSTER: Well, here's the other thing that we saw on the tape, Chris, is that, when Obama went in, he was offered coffee, and he said, "I'll have orange juice."
MATTHEWS: No.
SHUSTER: He did.
Jesus christ.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:03 am | #
Hardball: MSNBC's answer to the National Enquirer.
I do not miss cable TV one iota.
Ralphie |
04.12.08 - 8:03 am | #
get out the tar and feathers.
candidate drinks orange juice.
mobs meet at 8:00 p.m. behind the dept. store parking lot.
Oh, that's Ithaca, Michigan.
Barndog, not currently fishing |
04.12.08 - 8:03 am | #
Ruth are you talking about Rod Dreher? He's a tool. He has converted to eastern orthodox. He is a former National Review idiot.
trifecta |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:03 am | #
Wait, maybe the underlying message is about OJ... SiMPSON!!!
Honestly, you couldn't make a parody any more extreme than what passes for political discourse.
My German wife was asked by her students what she thought of US politics. She said there's no political discourse here, only show/performance and economics.
Also, Chris Matthews needs to be shot into the sun.
Buckeye. Dealer of Rare Coins |
04.12.08 - 8:03 am | #
Chris Matthews needs to be shot into the sun
What did the sun do to deserve that punishment?
Barndog, not currently fishing |
04.12.08 - 8:04 am | #
Also, Chris Matthews needs to be shot into the sun.
He aspires to be Maureen Dowd.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:04 am | #
Tomorrow at 8, in Ithaca.
Shweet.
They're damn prolific; I wonder if Carl's got the next album written yet?
I know Dan Bejar just released a new Destroyer album, but he's not really my thing outside the confines of the group.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:04 am | #
Not going to hold my breath waiting for Keith to pounce on this one.
Gimlet |
04.12.08 - 8:04 am | #
Matthews thinks he's come a long way from being a capitol hill cop. I don't think so.
Ralphie |
04.12.08 - 8:05 am | #
My German wife was asked by her students what she thought of US politics. She said there's no political discourse here, only show/performance and economics.
Right again.
tubino | 04.12.08 - 8:03 am | #
insanity all dressed up as rationality.
juan non o |
04.12.08 - 8:05 am | #
trifecta, yes, dreher. It was a good op ed. formerly, I did use a quote from him to the effect that he was being such an advocate of the natural that he would be buying only from local christian farmers. really. yep, usually a tool, but when a tool does something right I will give them credit.
Ruth |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:05 am | #
See, that's the difference between Molly and me. She: sober writing, deep thinking, profound insight. Me: drunk writing, off the top of my head, sotty jokes.
Moe Szyslak, cold |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:05 am | #
All that air time that could be educating people about why 60% of Iraqis think attacks on the US are justified, or any of a 1000 worthwhile topics...
Imagine a system where public service was part of the requirement for getting/renewing a license for the airwaves.
tubino |
04.12.08 - 8:06 am | #
Half the time, I think Matthews talks to hear himself breathe.
Barndog, not currently fishing |
04.12.08 - 8:06 am | #
In case anyone is curious, no, Scrabulous does not play Arabic words.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:06 am | #
There was nothing in that post I didn't already know, but seeing it all in one place depressed me.
The real "elitists", of course, are the media types who simply assume that these exotic "ordinary" people for whom they like to speak couldn't possibly know anything about arugula or green tea and would never ask for something they wanted at a restaurant but would simply accept what they were offered.
SteveLG, one house to the left |
04.12.08 - 8:06 am | #
people on food stamps in ohio aren't bitter. they're americans rolling up their sleeves and getting the job done.
heh.
hillary is such a slag heap of crap.
juan non o |
04.12.08 - 8:06 am | #
Also, Chris Matthews needs to be shot into the sun.
He needs a bib. that's certain.
MP |
04.12.08 - 8:06 am | #
Scrabulous does not play Arabic words
Racist games anyway.
Barndog, not currently fishing |
04.12.08 - 8:07 am | #
mccain is of course a slag heap of fossilized crap.
juan non o |
04.12.08 - 8:07 am | #
Obama could kick my lardy ass at bowling, I know that.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:08 am | #
Me: drunk writing, off the top of my head, sotty jokes.
Now, there's nothing wrong with that per se. It worked for a LOT of writers in the past. And Christopher Hitchens has certainly grabbed the torch and run with it.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:08 am | #
Interesting. George Bush admits to knowing that his cabinet were having secret meetings about illegal torture, and we are misdirected by the jackass Chris Matthews, surprisingly acting like...a jackass.
No wonder Bush and Cheney and all of the others don't care about bragging about their illegal activities to the world. They always have Chris Matthews to distract us. I think the entire American population must have attention deficit disorder.
George Bush admitted to knowing about torture meetings, OH LOOK Obama ordered orange juice!!!!!
We've gotten what we deserve.
foolme1ns |
04.12.08 - 8:08 am | #
hillary is such a slag heap of crap.
Classy. Don't you have a new contract with Sirius to fulfill?
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:09 am | #
enjoy, you with the right ideas and stuff. elitist chardonnay to all. I go do breakfast,
Moe,
I just don't have an interesting birthday.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:09 am | #
And Christopher Hitchens has certainly grabbed the torch and run with it.
SteveNS
I'm so fucking weird, that I just pictured Hitchens running slo-mo on a beach with a cigarette and a scotch, his man boobs flopping around, to the tune of Chariots of Fire.
MP |
04.12.08 - 8:10 am | #
Classy. Don't you have a new contract with Sirius to fulfill?
Molly Ivors | Homepage | 04.12.08 - 8:09 am | #
I think my dig at hillary was far more accurate than your dig at me.
juan non o |
04.12.08 - 8:10 am | #
Molly, there is, alas, enough misery and mayhem to fill the calendar.
Moe Szyslak, cold |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:11 am | #
I just pictured Hitchens running slo-mo on a beach with a cigarette and a scotch, his man boobs flopping around, to the tune of Chariots of Fire.
Excuse me, while I go laugh the remainder of my fucking head off.
Barndog, not currently fishing |
04.12.08 - 8:11 am | #
Hitchens gives drinkers a bad name. I mean, seriously.
Moe Szyslak, cold |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:11 am | #
I think my dig at hillary was far more accurate than your dig at me.
How delightful for you.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:12 am | #
Joan Walsh is all over every side of the Obama San Francisco story over at Salon today... she was going to defend him then she was going to criticize him, then she was blown away by his response.
I'm not sure where she wound up.
SteveLG, one house to the left |
04.12.08 - 8:12 am | #
This is how utterly lame they are. The Village media only know one way to depict the candidates through their pathetic little funhouse lenses, and they'll go to embarrassing lengths to "prove" their case.
Narrative number one: Democrats are phony elitists! How do we know? Because Obama doesn't bowl and drinks orange juice!
For fuck's sake, what a degraded process.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:12 am | #
I'm so fucking weird, that I just pictured Hitchens running slo-mo on a beach with a cigarette and a scotch, his man boobs flopping around, to the tune of Chariots of Fire.
MP
Weaving, stumbling... dropping to his knees and puking in the surf.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:13 am | #
Molly, there is, alas, enough misery and mayhem to fill the calendar.
Just a drive by, but when I heard about the BHO flap this morning, the first thing that came to my mind was Atticus Finch defending Tom Robinson. paraphrasing, but he said Tom had the temerity to feel sorry for a white woman. That was his crime. Same here. Obama didn't say anything that anyone who has read "What's the Matter With Kansas" would say. But he feels sorry for these poor white folks who are being played.
qlª bitch |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:15 am | #
There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
Couldn't put it any better than that.
aangus: This space for hire. |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:15 am | #
Read your comments below, Moe, and must add that I can think of at least one (possibly two, foolme1se) good thing that happened on April 14.
And as another lapsed Catholic, I very much concur with your piece, Molly. Well written, as always.
noblejoanie |
04.12.08 - 8:18 am | #
Tap, tap, tap???
aangus: Now with SPRING! |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:19 am | #
C'mon, Tweety. Just call him a nigger. A dirty, elitist, terrorist, Muslim, America-hating, orange juice drinking nigger. You know you want to.
Dr. Wu |
04.12.08 - 8:19 am | #
slag-heaps of crap
marionettes themselves
all dressed up in brooks brother suits
and pantsuits
playing the conservatives and liberals like suckers
juan non o |
04.12.08 - 8:19 am | #
Has everyone watched Obama's response to all this idiocy (specifically Clinton's and McCain's criticism of him?
It's pretty damn impressive. He doesn't back off an inch and really wows an audience in Terre Haute, Indiana which appears to be comprised largely of the kind of people he's been talking about.
Actually, it's not "pretty damn impressive" at all... it's freakin' awesome.
SteveLG |
04.12.08 - 8:20 am | #
Thanks, noblejoanie. You're a voice of sanity, always.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:21 am | #
Molly!
1977 - 39 people were killed when an earthen dam burst, sending a wall of water through the campus of Toccoa Falls Bible College in Georgia.
Why does God hate Bible colleges?
Moe Szyslak, cold |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:22 am | #
C'mon, Tweety. Just call him a nigger. A dirty, elitist, terrorist, Muslim, America-hating, orange juice drinking nigger. You know you want to.
Dr. Wu
Please Jebus let Matthews slip and call him "uppity". Pleasepleaseplease.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:23 am | #
Why does God hate Bible colleges?
I think I answered that in my post today.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:23 am | #
I hate YouTube comments. Does that make me an elitist?
SteveLG |
04.12.08 - 8:23 am | #
*mwah* Molly and Moe
noblejoanie |
04.12.08 - 8:24 am | #
I hate YouTube comments. Does that make me an elitist?
Well, that and the chardonnay.
But YouTube comments are living proof that there are people on the internets even dumber than our trolls.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:24 am | #
I hate YouTube comments. Does that make me an elitist?
SteveLG
You're no man of the people! Snob! I declare you unelectable!
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:24 am | #
But YouTube comments are living proof that there are people on the internets even dumber than our trolls.
That's just not possible.
Ralphie |
04.12.08 - 8:25 am | #
Have a good day at work, Molly.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:25 am | #
Please Jebus let Matthews slip and call him "uppity". Pleasepleaseplease.
SteveNS
He'll use "finger quotes".
SteveLG |
04.12.08 - 8:25 am | #
Moe Szyslak, cold
At least there isn't snow in your forcast this weekend. You're gonna be warmer than us!
aangus: Now with SPRING! |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:25 am | #
Now if Obama had declined the OJ because it wasn't fresh squeezed, the criticism might be valid..
noblejoanie |
04.12.08 - 8:26 am | #
Baby Tait's birthday is next Sunday. It's Hitler's birthday and the Oklahoma City bombing.
trifecta |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:26 am | #
i'm so old i remember when fresh squeezed OJ wasn't elitist.
Atrios |
04.12.08 - 8:27 am | #
At least there isn't snow in your forcast this weekend. You're gonna be warmer than us!
aangus
I just took pictures out in the garden. I'll post them anon.
Moe Szyslak, cold |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:27 am | #
I bet nobody else in that diner even noticed or if they did they didn't give a shit. It's not a story but to fill air time these morons start making shit up. One problem is that these people aren't journalists. Another problem is that Matthews is an asshole.
tim |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:28 am | #
I can't vote for a man who's afraid of scurvy.
Or rickets, for that matter.
I can't. I won't.
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:28 am | #
One problem is that these people aren't journalists. Another problem is that Matthews is an asshole.
Assholes are everywhere, we just have to get them off the air.
*cough*GlennBeck*cough*
SteveNS |
04.12.08 - 8:30 am | #
On the other hand, thank the Jeebus for YouTube because it's the only place where people can see videos as long as Obama's response to his critics.
The news shows will spend hours on end every evening characterizing what he said, analyzing his motivations, speculating about what its political effect will be, but they can't show a three minute clip in its entirety because "it's too long."
SteveLG |
04.12.08 - 8:30 am | #
Good morning.
I'm having coffee and a cigarette.
That's why IMO he didn't have the coffee cause it would make him want a cigarette and he's trying to quit.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:31 am | #
I see I'm not the only one failing to come up with the amusing simels story, maybe about fresh squeeezed OJ made from oranges picked in the garden of eden.
noblejoanie |
04.12.08 - 8:31 am | #
Off to the city.
Talk to you all tonight...
steve hussein simels |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:31 am | #
SHUSTER: Well, here's the other thing that we saw on the tape, Chris, is that, when Obama went in, he was offered coffee, and he said, "I'll have orange juice."
MATTHEWS: No.
SHUSTER: He did.
"The terrorists think we are shallow and all we care about is money"-george bush,shortly after 911.
george had a rare personal insight.
R.Mutt |
04.12.08 - 8:34 am | #
I was confused by Snow's response to my post below. Maybe I need to include a legend with my posts.
Feingold = good.
WaPo = neocon hacks.
I also need to post a notice to folks: Don't try to friend me on Facebook, my confirm button for the app doesn't work. If you want to friend me, send me a message and I'll send you a friend invite instead.
Avedon, still not really awake |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:36 am | #
A Nexis search for "John Edwards AND Pink Sapphire" returns 71 hits. One news report available on Nexis mentions McCain's visit to the salon. One.
If McCain had sued them for malpractice it might have gotten more mention.
SteveLG |
04.12.08 - 8:37 am | #
I coulda had a V-8!
Elitist Tea Baggers 4 Obama |
04.12.08 - 8:39 am | #
SteveLG, thanks for posting the youtube link on Obama.
I explained to someone that I thought Obama was a better choice than Clinton because he stands up and directly refutes criticism and attacks. He does it clearly and with a little humor, and he does it very well.
The videos make the point very well.
tubino |
04.12.08 - 8:40 am | #
i'm so old that buying unfreshly squeezed orange juice was a thrill. You don't need a juicer! You don't need the milk man delivery, just pop it in your freezer and make it when you want!
Stormysu |
04.12.08 - 8:40 am | #
Morning HBK, on my screened porch doin' the same...
Stormysu |
04.12.08 - 8:42 am | #
I explained to someone that I thought Obama was a better choice than Clinton because he stands up and directly refutes criticism and attacks. He does it clearly and with a little humor, and he does it very well.
I agree.
After DWD linked to the clip last night I noted that Obama did not learn nothing from ten years spent dealing with smart-ass law students.
SteveLG |
04.12.08 - 8:42 am | #
Unfortunately, the agreement has become entangled in political jockeying between the White House and Democrats. The Democrats are right to demand assistance for American workers, and the Bush administration should work with Congress to expand the safety net for workers displaced by globalization. But this should not stop the Colombian trade pact from coming to fruition.
Ditto.
aangus: Now with SPRING!® |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:43 am | #
Yes, the GOP is gonna try to do to Barack (or Hillary, if she's the nominee, which alas I doubt) what they did to Al Gore and John Kerry.
Even if Barack were a latte-sippin' elitist, even if he were guilty of all those baaaaaad, baaaaaad things that Karl Rove is gonna try to smear him with, it won't matter.
This country is hungrier for change today than it was in 1968. It didn't get change in 1968, and look where we wound up: Nixon, Watergate, five more years of Viet Nam, Ronald Reagan, etc.
It's going to be a rout of the GOP. They may be out of power for the next twenty-five years.
Suck. On. That., o ye mighty Red Staters.
DDerbes, writin' demon |
04.12.08 - 8:44 am | #
(Sorry about the sigh above but that is EXACTLY what has brought us to the sorry state. They - the government and the news organizations and congress - SAY they are going to address the concerns of the workers and their families, but they NEVER do. They pass their trade bills, take the jobs, make the money for Wall Street and Washington and the rich and then simply forget about the people who get screwed.)
I forgot how to do thumbnails and such, for my web page.
Moe Szyslak, cold |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:51 am | #
Anybody know if actual or proposed financial remedies have the government buying devalued paper held by pension funds or are they buying only Wall Street and Bank paper?
Gimlet |
04.12.08 - 8:51 am | #
They pass their trade bills, take the jobs, make the money for Wall Street and Washington and the rich and then simply forget about the people who get screwed.
Imagine if we had a news media that thought it newsworthy that income inequality has increased to the point that social scientists and economists consider socially/politically unstable.
Instead, it's about orange juice, and whether it is condescending to point out that middle-class voters are bitter.
tubino |
04.12.08 - 8:52 am | #
Mm... I overhear some morning chatterbox giving the very sound advice that travelers try to avoid hub airports.
This will be difficult, of course, since they're... you know, hubs.
SteveLG |
04.12.08 - 8:52 am | #
I don't care if he ordered a cranberry juice with soda water and a twist of lemon. I don't want another "regular" guy in charge of the military, making economic decisions and making a general mess of things.
tim |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:53 am | #
It's going to be a rout of the GOP. They may be out of power for the next twenty-five years.
Suck. On. That., o ye mighty Red Staters.
DDerbes, writin' demon
Lucky us.
We get the Lieberdems, Pelosi, Reid, the FISA immunity Dems...
Still not the government we want and need.
Gimlet |
04.12.08 - 8:54 am | #
i'd pay to hear a chris matthews guest react to one of these with
at least he doesn't slather on makeup like a trollop, you c__t.
rootless-e |
04.12.08 - 8:56 am | #
Damn! Bob Herbert is getting my blood boiling. I will read it later. Too early to be this pissed.
DWD |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:57 am | #
Imagine if we had a news media that thought it newsworthy that income inequality has increased to the point that social scientists and economists consider socially/politically unstable.
Instead, it's about orange juice, and whether it is condescending to point out that middle-class voters are bitter.
tubino
Imagine if we had a news media that thought its job was to report what people who are running for office say instead of telling people what to think.
I could live with the editorialization (and fact-checking) if they actually gave the candidates a voice in the first place, but they don't.
When Obama gave his "race speech" I was struck by the fact that they could have shown the speech dozens of times in the time they spent analyzing its motivations, speculating about its political impact and showing the *occasional* six second sound bite.
Hillary is at least as unfairly treated, in much the same way, and John Edwards couldn't even get discussed until he quit the race.
SteveLG |
04.12.08 - 8:57 am | #
Maybe Dick Cavett's inanity will help - Patreaus and Crocker don't crack enough jokes? (Maybe there is really NOTHING funny about Iraq, you fucking Dick!)
DWD |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:58 am | #
someone i work with who is very straight-laced and proper, was uncomfortable with my repeated references to 'tweety'; he insisted on calling him matthews.
i forwarded this exchange to him yesterday and included a reference to the beer-drinking meme tweets so loved and he replied 'tweety is the last person i'd want to have a beer with'
i thought that was too funny.
nona |
04.12.08 - 8:59 am | #
When Obama gave his "race speech" I was struck by the fact that they could have shown the speech dozens of times in the time they spent analyzing its motivations, speculating about its political impact and showing the *occasional* six second sound bite.
Hillary is at least as unfairly treated, in much the same way, and John Edwards couldn't even get discussed until he quit the race.
SteveLG
and the speech was thirty some minutes long: not a minute and a half.
DWD |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 8:59 am | #
Unfortunately, the agreement has become entangled in political jockeying between the White House and Democrats. The Democrats are right to demand assistance for American workers, and the Bush administration should work with Congress to expand the safety net for workers displaced by globalization. But this should not stop the Colombian trade pact from coming to fruition, because American workers need the competition of terror state labor in order to work hard enough to fund bailouts for wall street.
explicated the implicit in the nyt editoria.
rootless-e |
04.12.08 - 8:59 am | #
And another thing I'd really like to see on Hardball: imagine Matthews or any other bobbing head being pressed to name who got it most right on the Iraq invasion/occupation, and who got it most wrong. Imagine the furrowed brows as they try to name someone who got it right -- and they can't name anyone they ever had on the show.
tubino |
04.12.08 - 9:00 am | #
Maybe Dick Cavett's inanity will help - Patreaus and Crocker don't crack enough jokes? (Maybe there is really NOTHING funny about Iraq, you fucking Dick!)
DWD
"orange juice is ivy league"-Gail Collins
jr |
04.12.08 - 9:42 am | #
Which product is "All American, grown and produced at home", and which is an import product from foreigners?
OJ is elitist? Don't tell that to the wang of America, Florida.
No wonder your country is in the toilet....
No Wonder..... |
04.12.08 - 10:46 am | #
I renovated a very old 2 family house in Salem MA a few years ago. The oddest electrical layout ever. Some rooms had no outlets just ceiling light. Great house though.
tim |
Homepage |
04.12.08 - 12:05 pm | #
Well, I have to tell you, a candidate's choice of beverage is important to me. I could never vote for anyone who doesn't drink lattes...
Roddy McCorley |
04.12.08 - 2:39 pm | #