I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
mine!
Yours!
yes we can!
si se puede!
Man do I like Obama. I wish we'd all vote for him. I don't understand those who don't like him, who apparently are the majority.
very nice...
Simels is a critic.
Oh, and very old.
you rang?
congrats, racy.
I was plugging for you.
'
I guess I don't have the latest Flash.
its original, and thats a big thing for young voters
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Man do I like Obama. I wish we'd all vote for him.
__
he's too advanced for the average murkin to comprehend
Man do I like Obama. I wish we'd all vote for him. I don't understand those who don't like him, who apparently are the majority.
jeff
It depends on what you want a president to do. If you want one to inspire you, Obama's pretty good. If you're interested in policies, maybe not.
I hasten to add that Hillary isn't any better as far as policies are concerned; my personal preference is for the wonk over the guiding light, but that's just me.
It's not a perfect world.
Was the woman from "America's Next Top Model" who has Apsberger's in that video?
i know it won't happen, but i would just love to have edwards as the dem nominee and obama as v.p.
hrc and obama were both very very good last night.
Interesting.
i know it won't happen, but i would just love to have edwards as the dem nominee and obama as v.p.
TEBB, uppity female
I'd like a ham sandwich.
A former Arizona rodeo beauty queen and daughter of a millionaire Phoenix businessman, Cindy McCain was 25 when she met her future husband at a cocktail party in Hawaii. John McCain was a 43-year-old naval liaison officer travelling with a congressional delegation, his sights already set on a political career.
.
.
Cindy McCain, now 53, claims she has no interest in policy making - “I am not the legislator in this family. He is” - and that she intends to keep busy running her charities and her family’s company. As first lady, it is clear that she would play a key role. Acknowledging that McCain had made many enemies in Republican ranks, she added: “The only person my husband can trust is me.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
tol...icle3295472.ece
.
Is the link Atriosed, yet?
Adam - on white bread with mayo? reminds me of childhood
Well after watching that I just feel like a jerky dinosaur for not enthusiastically jumping on the obama bandwagon.
i like hillary's chances better mostly in as much as she will bite mccain's ears off
.
Obama is inspirational. If he brings progressives to his cabinet, I'm all for him.
Right now, I'm on the fence.
It depends on what you want a president to do. If you want one to inspire you, Obama's pretty good. If you're interested in policies, maybe not.
Well, the Bully Pulpit is pretty powerful. And I want an ascendant Congress with a descendant Executive...
ja wohl, mein thread fuhrer!
Obama/Garage 08!
We've got a real POTUS on our hands!
i know it won't happen, but i would just love to have edwards as the dem nominee and obama as v.p.
TEBB, uppity female
No reason it couldn't work 'tother way.
jeff - i don't think there are a lot of people who dislike obama, i think there are a lot of people who aren't convinced he's the best choice. however, a lot of us who feel that way will absolutely vote for him if he gets the nomination because he's not incompetent and we can't survive another rethug administration.
Well after watching that I just feel like a jerky dinosaur for not enthusiastically jumping on the obama bandwagon.
JeffCO
No; you're probably just over 40.
A good friend, years ago, worked his heart out for a guy named Walker, who was running for governor of Illinois.
Walker was another inspiring figure, at least to my friend.
Walker went to jail for corruption, years later.
Don't trust leaders, follow parking meters.
i like our chances with clinton/obama vs. mccain/huckabee
.
Don't trust leaders, follow parking meters.
I will never understand people who get emotionally involved with political candidates.
i like our chances with clinton/obama vs. mccain/huckabee
.
Tacitus Voltaire
------
i'd like to feel confident, but living in the south and seeing lots of ignorant xian fundamentalists, and racial bigots, and good old boys who dont' like assertive women i'm nervous.
ja wohl, mein thread fuhrer!
Ja, gut, now fetchen me eine sammitch auf.
I will never understand people who get emotionally involved with political candidates.
cahuenga
Yeah.
I made that mistake years ago, more than once.
The only one I'm not ashamed of is George McGovern, who Robert F. Kennedy called "the most decent man in the Senate". And he was, too.
Well, for sure I don't wanna be a bum.
[starts to chew gum]
Jeffoco, you ain't the only one. It's a beautiful song. So is
this one, , which oddly enough also promotes unity.
NTodd - go EAT. dinner at casa Tebb was a bowl of ravioli stuffed with gorgonzola and walnuts, with a basil tomato sauce.
it was yummy.
After seven years of Chimpy the Pejorator,
It's good at least to have a decent orator.
i'd like to feel confident, but living in the south and seeing lots of ignorant xian fundamentalists, and racial bigots, and good old boys who dont' like assertive women i'm nervous.
TEBB, uppity female
I'm with you. You forgot to mention the influence of a totally corrupt national media. And Diebold voting.
I can't believe I missed Jon Swift, my favorite conservative blogger.
As far as his Blogroll Amnesty Day idea goes, I can't link to a blog that has less traffic than mine, because there aren't any.
We may be Valee readers but the SciFi show Ghost Hunters strikes us as more sad without being more funny as To Catch A Predator. It seems to us that the "nuts and bolts school" quest to prove Nessie or ghosts or whatever not only exist, but exist in the same mundane way that you or us do, is an unintentional outgrowth (or "schpeedle") of Wm Moulton Marston's "lie detector," which actually was a lie generator that pretended to science by genuinely examining certain physiological processes. Provided your pulse, your breathing, the electrical activity of your skin and so on had anything to do with lying, which they don't necessarily, the lie detector notices these and therefore spots the lie. Except that a million little extenuating circumstances apply, such as the fact that being a basically competant lie detector proctor is extremely difficult. The measurement of physiological response starts all over for each subject. A cough, a dropped wastebasket or a stray sexual thought can mean the difference between truth and deceit. As for ghosts, this demented idea that they can be "measured" like lies leads to misguided attempts to scientifically validate what amount to whole cities of straw men. The science might be there but the ghosts still aren't.
Well, one thing about Barack Obama, unlike John Kerry, he won't let himself be marginalized.
That's a good starting trait in a politician.
"senator mccain, you have proposed lowering the business tax, keeping bush's tax cut, eliminating the alternative minimum tax, staying in iraq forever, expanding the military, and bringing down the budget deficit. if you're such a straight talker, would you mind telling us where the hell you intend to get the money from?"
.
NTodd - go EAT.
Actually, I just got some food and vino. Now I'm fessin' to essen!
First they came for the social studies teacher.... How long before they come for the rest of us?
Now I'm fessin' to essen!
---------------------------
fessin' to fressen?
what Tacitus said
I can't believe I missed Jon Swift, my favorite conservative blogger.
Jon Swift is awesome, isn't he? He totally nailed the son of Lucianne Moneymountain.
I thought it was good, and would probably be very appealing to many younger voters. In general reliance on celebrity endorsements obviously have their drawbacks, although I only recognized three people so maybe those people weren't very famous? (Or maybe I'm just out of it) It definitely tapped into that spirit that was going around right after Iowa, which I will say resonated with me personally, but I've also read people say that's why he lost NH: to much focus on lofty rhetoric and too little on meat and potato issues.
I had to watch it again
Right now, I'm on the fence.
mer
don't be on the fence jump right in.
obama is a risk. but a quality individual.
i think this this guy makes some salient points too.
But another factor that plays to Obama’s advantage as the prospective nominee – when compared to Hillary Clinton – is that the Right’s powerful media apparatus and the Republican attack strategies appear less successful against Democrats with strong oratorical skills and the ability to inspire enthusiasm and passion.
who knows, if he makes it maybe he'll suck worse than carter. you know who is impressive? michelle obama.
I was talking to some 20-somethings this week - they were all over Obama and aghast that I somewhat preferred Hillary more. The fact that they could not articulate anything rational in their dislike of her told me that they grew up unaware of a time when Hillary was not the focal point of every rightwing imaginary evil. Their entire awareness of her has been filtered such that they believe she is somehow awful with no awareness that their basis for that is not reasoned.
Not saying there aren't clear reasons to be less than thrilled - I'm well aware of them - only that they think Obama is the Great Black Hope and Hillary is the Great Satan. I suppose to the extent that people don't vote on a rational basis, Obama wins.
I will never understand people who get emotionally involved with political candidates.
Neither do I. Which is funny, of course, since trolls loved to make fun of me for my support of Dean, and people here (I assume jokingly) put me on suicide watch when DK dropped. There's a difference between being passionate about the ideals and trying to get play for the candidate who best matches those at the time and identifying personally with the candidate.
I also don't get how people get wrapped up in movie stars and musicians. They produce a product, and yeah they're sometimes sexy and rich, but they ain't my family.
Me likee.
obama is a risk.
All candidates are a risk.
What JeffCo just said.
i'd like to feel confident, but living in the south and seeing lots of ignorant xian fundamentalists, and racial bigots, and good old boys who dont' like assertive women i'm nervous.
TEBB, uppity female | 02.02.08 - 8:13 pm |
i think you're seeing the worst of it down there
it looks much better in other parts of the country
reading voting results the last 30 years, i am reluctantly forced to conclude that we would have been better off letting the south remain independant... well, not really but they are the biggest republican voting bloc
but it's too late to vote for general mcclellan now...
.
It was amazing how the candidates on both sides made an abrupt as fuck move toward "change", well into the campaign.
It was because Obama and Huckleberry did well in Iowa.
From down thread:
"Any new development with 5 or more units needs to address parking, but single lot development doesn't."
But how many developers develop single lots? Here in Nashville, developers almost always build multi-unit developments. That's how they make their money.
JeffCO - I think another factor, at least for young women, is that they have no idea how hard it was to be a career woman until about 10 years ago. They have no appreciation for feminism in general and the hard efforts so many older women made to carve out places for themselves in politics and business. They take it all for granted.
si se puede!
Dolores Huerta endorsed Hillary Clinton.
Oh, but adding: there are zoning laws around here that require garages to be in the back, not the front.
Well done......yes we can WHAT? Get Obama elected?
That's what he is most passionate about.
At the risk of sounding like Broder, I swung out of my tree today and went to the local barber shop, a notorious and well known repbli-den: happy talk about Hil, fuck me, happy talk about Hil and Obama! fuck me blind and call me Martha.
i think you're seeing the worst of it down there
tacitusL read my "First they came for the social studies teacher" link, then get back to me....
I suppose to the extent that people don't vote on a rational basis, Obama wins.
In that case, Obama wins! It's kind of like saying in 2004, 'to the extent that people don't vote on a rational basis, Bush wins.'
totally OT but March of the Penguins in on the Science channel.
They have no appreciation for feminism in general and the hard efforts
so many older women made to carve out places for themselves in politics
and business.
This is definitely our sense of the brats. Kei drew gasps when she explained that the real reason for abortion legalization had nothing to do with babykilling and everything to do with stopping the brutal practices that took place in back alley ways; nobody but the teacher had even heard of this stuff.
Obama could make a decent President.
If the nation is as pissed off as I think it is, he has the potential to be a great President, if he listens to them instead of the cash people.
CarShare/LightRail '08
I suppose to the extent that people don't vote on a rational basis, Obama wins.
And a reminder of my experience driving little old ladies to the polls last week ....
Obama is a risk. Republican Hillary is a sure thing.
I was 17 when Bill was elected, and I remember being really excited about his victory. We watched the inauguration in our civics class, and there was just a great, general sense of relief. It felt really good.
I miss that feeling. It's been so long since I've been excited about our prospects. I'm still not there...but dammit if the current occupant hasn't almost worn me down to a nub.
Obama doesn't even pretend to want a National Health Care System and the one he proposes will set us back many years. This may be the only chance to get the people a healthcare system for a long time. A viable system does not give people a choice whether or not they can pay into it. As usual he hasn't a clue or else he is pandering to the right wing who would do anything to avoid a National Healtcare System. His is a total betrayal of the people.
Springtime for Hitler on Meat The Press tomorrow:
: Mary Matalin and Mike Murphy, Republican strategists, facing off against James Carville and Bob Shrum, Democratic strategists.
sb,
i'm talking about downtown rehabs/teardowns. there are block-clearing complexes built at times, and they have to have parking, but a lot of the development is lot-by-lot.
Republican Hillary is a sure thing.
Obama's and Clinton's policy positions are well within the Democratic norm.
this is wonderful, and inspiration is certainly necessary to motivate people. But it is going to take a hell of a lot more than rhetoric to accomplish change and so far at least the policies and actions of the change prophet are not anywhere near as inspirational as the rhetoric, and are in fact substantially and significantly disconcerting in their dissonance with the rhetoric.
.
I was 17 when Bill was elected, and I remember being really excited about his victory.
I shook his hand in BTV, Sept92. I came into the office the next Monday and proclaimed that I'd shaken the hand of our next president.
Certainly it was exciting, and he is definitely a charmer. But I'm only going to suck his cock if he gives me universal health care.
JeffCO - I think another factor, at least for young women, is that they have no idea how hard it was to be a career woman until about 10 years ago. They have no appreciation for feminism in general and the hard efforts so many older women made to carve out places for themselves in politics and business. They take it all for granted. TEBB, uppity female
I confess sometimes I feel like more of a feminist than many young women I've known, but not having been born with a uterus I tend to keep such feelings to myself.
tacitusL read my "First they came for the social studies teacher" link, then get back to me....
Southern Beale | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 8:22 pm | #
I was talking to some 20-somethings this week - they were all over Obama and aghast that I somewhat preferred Hillary more. The fact that they could not articulate anything rational in their dislike of her told me that they grew up unaware of a time when Hillary was not the focal point of every rightwing imaginary evil
anybody got any of that laudanum left over? for some reason i feel a little depressed...
.
Mary Matalin and Mike Murphy, Asshole strategists, facing off against James Carville and Bob Shrum, Asshole strategists.
anybody got any of that laudanum left over? for some reason i feel a little depressed
Me too Kemo Sabe!
I will never understand people who get emotionally involved with political candidates.
we're probably all a bit too emotional about this upcoming election. then again, you know... people are fucking dying.
we're only gonna get one whack at it...
Mary Matalin and Mike Murphy, Republican strategists, facing off against James Carville and Bob Shrum, Democratic strategists.
Dear falling satellite,
Aim here.
Thanks,
Earth
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Man do I like Obama. I wish we'd all vote for him. I don't understand those who don't like him, who apparently are the majority.
jeff
I like him alright, I just think I'd like him better with 8 years as vp under his belt. It would bolster his foriegn policy credentials, etc.
Dang. I was kind of hoping he'd signify on Ross Perot's famous campaign theme from 1992.
I will never understand people who get emotionally involved with political candidates.
I understand it intuitively. Our elected leaders define who we are as a nation.
i'm talking about downtown rehabs/teardowns.
OK, I was too. I guess it's different here in Nashville. No one builds just one unit here. Even if it's a one-lot tear down, they always put a minimum of 4 units back where the one used to stand.
But be that as it may, why don't y'all have some zoning mandating the garages be put in the back? That's what several towns here have done.
His is a total betrayal of the people.
plus, he eats babies and poops them out, each morning after he kills a puppy.
the man is a monster.
i'm starting to get that hopeful feeling that i haven't had since i heard dr dean talk.
that was cool - I'm headed straight to The Gap!
I mentioned on an earlier thread that Obama was in town today, and got about 20K at the rally, with another 10K people turned away.
I haven't seen anything like that (politically) in a long time...if ever.
Videos like this are usually the first sign a movement has jumped the shark.
Sorry.
-
the man is a monster.
You are good at putting words into people's mouth.
Actually, any leader who refuses to see that the people have healthcare is a monster.
this is wonderful, and inspiration is certainly necessary to motivate people.
I'm not getting this big "inspirational" thing, I'm just not. To be honest, this mantra of "hope!" and "inspiration!" is starting to sound like cultish fanaticism.
I read some celebrity, I think Vanessa Williams, saying she just finished reading his second book after plowing through the first one and her comment was, "he makes me feel hopeful!"
Obama fans are bordering on self-parody.
The very first thing I hope whoever the new Chief Executive happens to be, is to do whatever it takes to stop this nation from torturing people.
The very first thing I hope whoever the new Chief Executive happens to be, is to do whatever it takes to stop this nation from torturing people.
MP | 02.02.08 - 8:35 pm | #
we dont torture heh heh heh
When you think John Legend can bring you to the promiseland, you are in trouble.
Sorry to say.
-
I mentioned on an earlier thread that Obama was in town today, and got about 20K at the rally, with another 10K people turned away.
Bush or Cheney arrive in town and they need to break the law to keep 10K people from storming the site.
I haven't seen anything like that (politically) in a long time...if ever.
Cuomo came close for awhile.
Then we decided we liked bloodless wonks better.
And got slaughtered like hogs.
All candidates are a risk.
NTodd, Thread Führer
that's why you don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters.
i've determined not to say anything negative about hillary. as my wife pointed out today, even mccain would be better than what we have now.
i may not have been a voter but i've followed politics since nixon. when he's on no one is as inspirational as obama. i don't know if that makes a good leader, but as he pointed out to hillary, the words do matter.
we're probably all a bit too emotional about this upcoming election. then again, you know... people are fucking dying.
People are dying? Is that really something to get upset about? Perhaps you're being too sanctimonious.
Obama fans are bordering on self-parody.
"Fans"?
Great...we've celebratized everything that hasn't been militarized yet.
I'm not getting this big "inspirational" thing, I'm just not. To be honest, this mantra of "hope!" and "inspiration!" is starting to sound like cultish fanaticism.
Well then, just fuck it, it's no use to try.
I mentioned on an earlier thread that Obama was in town today, and got about 20K at the rally, with another 10K people turned away.
You know that's so funny because John McCain was in Nashville today, and he drew a similar crowd, minus about 19,500 folks.
laters, 'bats - off to the video store...
.
See, here's the thing. When was the last time you had a political speech really enter the public consciousness? And not as joke? Bush's bullhorn moment will be remembered, but as a soundbite, not a speech. Clinton got some soundbites -- and maybe that's the best this Obama speech will end up being, but really. A full speech as pop-culture phenomenon -- this is pretty remarkable.
Great...we've celebratized everything that hasn't been militarized yet.
Welcome to the era of Shock and...E!.
if obama makes some folks in here a little nervous... imagine the head exploding realization that is going on over there on the starboard side of the political equation.
"Fans"?
Oh, I meant SUPPORTERS excuse the fuck out of me.
Our elected leaders define who we are as a nation.
I think that's true for some coming from an older more clannish perspective. But for others farther out on their own, I don't think it is as much any more. The GOP embodies that kind of heirarchical structure that holds Tweety and Timmeh in thrall to their imagined memories of big leather chairs and Aqua Velva.
I think the Dems may do so slightly less, but Obama is nothing if not the latest hero questing to fulfill the promise of the people through his personal achievement. I'm sure Joe Campbell could explain it.
i'm starting to get that hopeful feeling that i haven't had since i heard dr dean talk.
Then you're fucking nuts! YEARRARRRAGHAGH!!
i'd like to feel confident, but living in the south and seeing lots of ignorant xian fundamentalists, and racial bigots, and good old boys who dont' like assertive women i'm nervous.
TEBB, uppity female
------------------------
Thats the beauty of us as candidates. We come with our own built in excuses if we lose.
Obama doesn't make me "nervous" except for the little old ladies I know who are convinced he's Muslim and all, and living in the South I have serious doubts about his electability. I mean, with the choice between him and Hillary, I'm just glad I already voted for John Edwards before he dropped out.
I just want to see a little more substance to go along with the bumper sticker slogans.
Is anyone else as hypnotized as I am by that smoke plume in the ad over on the right side of the page?
The thing is, I don't need my president to be a preacher. I can go back to church if I want that. I want a president who has the know-how and drive to get changes made.
My doubts about Clinton weren't about her drive, but her objectives. This primary season has reassured me somewhat about them.
On the other hand, I have increasing doubts about Obama. There is his constant religious pandering. There was his willingness to engage an anti-gay activist for his campaign. And there's his talk of "reaching out" that belies his theme of change.
We don't need bury the Rethugs' ideas, not accommodate them.
I think that's true for some coming from an older more clannish perspective.
I think it's modern as fuck. We torture, and we spy on our own citizens, and we lock them up without access to a lwayer.
Ain't nothing non-current about it.
The right wing will do anything they can to prevent Clinton from being elected so she can't put a decent healthcare system in place. If the people once again want to vote for fantasy over substance, go ahead. What the heck. More people will die, go broke, live under bridges, and give up.
i'm starting to get that hopeful feeling ....
Oh, keee-rirst.
Wow. That is absolutely beautiful.
But it's exactly what's wrong with the campaign. All brilliant style and no substance.
It's also brilliant propaganda.
"We" includes the audiences. And yet nothing is promised beyond the feel good reinforcement of inclusion.
If you contrast this with an actual speech for change. You can see that while sounding good ALL OF THE MEANINGFUL SUBSTANCE IS MISSING.
This is a real call for change.
http://
www.informationclearingho...article2564.htm
What we have just watched is exactly the picture of a delicious meal, substituted for the meal itself.
It is the promise of salvation without accepting the sacrifice required to achieve that salvation.
It's MLK reduced to a Cinnabon.
Our elected leaders define who we are as a nation.
"Iron John -- Poet, Warrior, Alderman"
"when he's on no one is as inspirational as obama."
dunno. saw a bit of his wife on cspan today. i'm still stunned.
My prediction:
Clinton wins Dems
Clinton loses big to McCain
McCain leads the country into further ruin...
With American hanging by a thread, in 2012, Gore/Obama win a landslide, plus a 60 seat majority in the Senate and America finally saves itself.
Obama becomes Preznit in 2016.
That's what I think.
-
Repeat from far below:
*SNURF*
Hello, peoples.
*SNURF*
Now I know why I felt "weird" last night.
*SNURF*
WARNING: Stoned on antihistamines!
Please handle with care & ignore all (or almost all) tasteless remarks!
*SNURF*
Thank you.
*SNURF*
I'm watching the dog show on Animal Planet. Makes me want a dog in my home again something fierce.
It's MLK reduced to a Cinnabon.
Well, that's one way of putting it.
The thing is, I don't need my president to be a preacher.
Yet we ask for an FDR or JFK or even MLK who gave good speech, which is a form of preach.
I want a president who has the know-how and drive to get changes made.
I want a president who will allow Congress to reassert itself as a co-equal branch with certain powers that have been neglected of late. I don't want a powerful Executive.
"It is the promise of salvation without accepting the sacrifice required to achieve that salvation."
bullshit. watch the speech tonight. 9:30.
A full speech as pop-culture phenomenon -- this is pretty remarkable.
Or would be if it were possible for it to happen organically. But my appreciation of the amazing grassrootiness of it all is strained slightly by the appearance of big name celebs and the high quality production values. Not saying they aren't sincere, but you can't have it both ways.
It's got a nice beat and you can vote to it, but that video is good marketing, not a spontaneous expression of the people's joy.
Our elected leaders define who we are as a nation.
Our leadership has successfully divorced the people completely -- they're not even really in control of it except through the crudest means, hence the deliberate ramping up of taser usage, the absolute disregard of protesters -- and represents only their virtual green zone.
My prediction:
Clinton wins Dems
Clinton loses big to McCain
McCain leads the country into further ruin...
With American hanging by a thread, in 2012, Gore/Obama win a landslide, plus a 60 seat majority in the Senate and America finally saves itself.
Obama becomes Preznit in 2016.
--------------
The problem being that McCain put two more conservatives on the Supreme Court and solidified their grip for a generation.
Makes me want a dog in my home again something fierce.
I happen to have one that needs a good home. He's a little incontinent, but it's controlled with medication. He's also not very bright but he makes up for it by being sweet.
Interested?
"I think the Dems may do so slightly less, but Obama is nothing if not the latest hero questing to fulfill the promise of the people through his personal achievement."
I think we would do better with some real policies and not so much charisma and change BS.
You are good at putting words into people's mouth.
Obama doesn't even pretend to want a National Health Care System and the one he proposes ....
most local community colleges offer course in Introductory Logic. very affordable, plus a great way to meet new people.
He's a little incontinent, but it's controlled with medication. He's also not very bright but he makes up for it by being sweet.
I HAVE A NAME, DAMMIT!
"We" includes the audiences. And yet nothing is promised beyond the feel good reinforcement of inclusion.
Inclusion's actually a pretty big fucking part of the equation in a democracy. And GOTV is an important part of winning.
My prediction:
Clinton wins Dems
Clinton loses big to McCain
You know what would be cooler than predictions? People standing up and saying what they're going to do to guarantee victory.
McCain cannot win his own party by definition. We will be totally shocked if McCain gets a nomination.
The thing is, I don't need my president to be a preacher.
--------------------------
After Gore, and then Kerry, I'll take anybody who knows how to act like they are alive in front of a crowd...or even on camara.
McCain leads the country into further ruin...
We get the government we deserve.
Southern Beale - no, I really can't get another dog these days because I'm single and once I get a job again (hopefully within the next month) will be travelling on business quite a bit. I've told all my neighbors they need to find me a nice man to marry, preferably one that works from home, so I can get a dog again.
I think it's modern as fuck. We torture, and we spy on our own citizens, and we lock them up without access to a lwayer. Ain't nothing non-current about it.
I'm not saying it's not current. I'm saying the identification of the leader as the embodiment of his or her people's hopes, dreams, power, etc is not modern, it's ancient, and it's dated.
Arn't all non-incumbent politicians in favour of CHANGE?
Why is this supposed to be so new and exciting?
McCain cannot win his own party by definition
The GOPers will come around. They always do. Nothing is more important than retaining power.
Just as nothing is more important to the Dems than trying to win the White House.
No matter what happens in the Presidential race, I do think the Dems will win more seats in Congress and maybe, just maybe, we'll be fillibustesr-proof.
I think we would do better with some real policies and not so much charisma and change BS.
That would be nice...if human beings could be induced to charge the barricades yelling "Slightly Higher CAFE Standards or Death!"
Unfortunately we are not wired that way.
Which is why when Dems nominate bloodless wonks they tend to get slaughtered like hogs.
I want a president who will allow Congress to reassert itself as a co-equal branch with certain powers that have been neglected of late. I don't want a powerful Executive.
NTodd, Thread Führer
Yes. The Oval Office is already uber powerful. I want a President who will work with the Congress to help this nation. Not bullrush it, or openly threaten it, like Chimpy does.
The whole world's watching, baby.
That should, of course, have been "we need to bury the Rethugs' ideas."
Arn't all non-incumbent politicians in favour of CHANGE?
Heh. Just a few weeks ago, Bush said if he were running for President right now, he too would be running in favor of CHANGE.
Kinda defies logic, but that's our Bush!
tomorrow is the 10 year anniversary of one many deaths directly attributable to UU.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/noto...n/tucker/
5.html
(15 years before that, she helped kill Jerry Dean and Deborah Thornton with an axe)
"But my appreciation of the amazing grassrootiness of it all is strained slightly by the appearance of big name celebs and the high quality production values."
well, there is that. but if it was a grunge video made in someone's basement wtf would wanna watch it?
but this is from a story at kos the other day about fundraising:
"On the other end of the donating spectrum, Obama raised a remarkable 47% of his individual contributions in the fourth quarter from donors who gave unitemized contributions of $200 or less."
I want a nominee that's going to win big and bring more Dems with 'em.
That's more likely to be Obama than Clinton.
Nothing against her, but it's time for the Democrats to win a god damned landslide.
McCain cannot win his own party by definition.
By definition? Oh, jesus.
He might not win, but I suspect he will because it's "his turn," just as it was Bob Dole's turn in '96.
Yes. The Oval Office is already uber powerful. I want a President who will work with the Congress to help this nation. Not bullrush it, or openly threaten it, like Chimpy does.
MP
On that note, I delight in the knowledge that anyone will be an enormous improvement over the current boob
Yes. The Oval Office is already uber powerful. I want a President who will work with the Congress to help this nation. Not bullrush it, or openly threaten it, like Chimpy does.
MP
--------------
The sad part being I don't see McCain, Hillary, or even Obama relinquishing any of that power that Bush has gathered into the presidency.
it's time for the Democrats to win a god damned landslide.
Most likely they won't, no matter who's the nom. Unless everybody works really, really hard. But I'll settle for a W that kicks W out, whatever the final score.
Watching an old Lyndon Johnson news conference on ABC-World News now (from Feb. 1967).
Jesus fuck, the distance in intellect between Johnson & Bush is staggering.
if human beings could be induced to charge the barricades yelling "Slightly Higher CAFE Standards or Death!"
Are you being obtuse on purpose? What about the issues that people really DO care about: the war. Healthcare. The economy. These are issues that have people in this country by the balls and tits. We need to know what our candidates intend to do about them. The media isn't doing its job in asking these questions, but at the very least the FANS (yes, I said it) at these rallies should be told this information, not a bunch of pablum about hope and inspiration.
You know what makes me hopeful? UNIVERSAL FUCKING HEALTHCARE. And the troops out of Iraq.
time to shoot wolf into the sun
I admit I really don't get this argument that somehow McCain pulls so many votes. Why would he be preferred over Hillary?
My opinion has been for the past two years that McCain will be the GOP nominee for the same reason BobDole was - it's his turn. The GOP money guys made obscenely wealthy by Bush will steadfastly reward his years of loyal asskissing, knowing full well he has almost no chance of winning because Bush has driven people's willingness to support the GOP into the ground. By design. The stink from the many big shitpiles is reaching the suburbs and they will retire to their villas, more than happy to let the Dems tell the people that they're fucked.
it's time for the Democrats to win a god damned landslide.
Why?
I have increasing doubts about Obama. There is his constant religious pandering. There was his willingness to engage an anti-gay activist for his campaign. And there's his talk of "reaching out" that belies his theme of change.
You're old and irrelevant.
Now gimme the car keys! And I need $50, too!
Hey, anything that gets out the vote...
-
Jesus fuck, the distance in intellect between Johnson & Bush is staggering.
The distance in intellect between my johnson & Bush is staggering.
I just want to see a little more substance to go along with the bumper sticker slogans.
Southern Beale
I'm sure a Jeff Davis/Nathan Bedford Forrest ticket would sweep teh South. Clean up your own room or get the fuck out of our house.
The sad part being I don't see McCain, Hillary, or even Obama relinquishing any of that power that Bush has gathered into the presidency.
It's not theirs to relinquish. It's Congress' to reclaim.
LBJ was one of the more amazing people of recent history.
Jesus fuck, the distance in intellect between Johnson & Bush is staggering.
attaturk
I love listening to his old phone tapes. He was one tough old bird
My opinion has been for the past two years that McCain will be the GOP nominee for the same reason BobDole was - it's his turn.
And may he suffer the same fate as Dole did in 1996.
He got buried.
"The GOPers will come around. They always do. Nothing is more important than retaining power."
sure they will. remember 1996? we ran our best retail politician(clinton) against a corpse(dole) who was widely hated by the gop as the 'tax collector for the welfare state'.
still clinton lost states he had won in 1992, and only won nationally by 8 pts.
this race will be much closer, maybe 5 pts at the most, and as usual will come down to a handful of swing states.
I want a president who will allow Congress to reassert itself as a co-equal branch with certain powers that have been neglected of late.
I don't disagree with you there. I suppose I should have said that part of that know-how would include being able to work with Congress.
Unfortunately I fear that if Clinton or perhaps even Obama gets in, the Dem Congress will suddenly envision itself as the opposition party it wasn't before, not to engage in the needed give-and-take to enact good policies, but to gum up the works for its own sake.
time to shoot wolf into the sun
*Thunderous round of applause*
I admit I really don't get this argument that somehow McCain pulls so many votes. Why would he be preferred over Hillary?
Because there ain't a Democrat alive who can come close to the mass popularity of a manly man lik Fred Thomps-- er, Rudy Giulia-- er, John McCain!
The media isn't doing its job in asking these questions, but at the very least the FANS (yes, I said it) at these rallies should be told this information, not a bunch of pablum about hope and inspiration.
Well, what the wholly fuck do think they're doing at these rallies? Just getting in for the free glo-sticks??
Of course, there's starry-eyed people in every movement; but don't dismiss that they, you know, might know stuff about the issues and have formed opinions.
SteveNS
Lol
I love listening to his old phone tapes. He was one tough old bird
bill |
I love the call about the tailor.
Needed room for his nuts and his bunghole.
LBJ was nothing if not earthy.
My opinion has been for the past two years that McCain will be the GOP nominee for the same reason BobDole was - it's his turn.
Coke, bitch.
Or a bingo.
Certainly it was exciting, and he is definitely a charmer. But I'm only going to suck his cock if he gives me universal health care.
NTodd, Thread Führer
yeah, well he already had his chance, and he already got his cock sucked.
In the last quarter Ron Paul raised more money than McCain and Romney combined. I can't imagine McCain winning a national election.
The sad part being I don't see McCain, Hillary, or even Obama relinquishing any of that power that Bush has gathered into the presidency.
It's not theirs to relinquish. It's Congress' to reclaim.
NTodd, Thread Führer
-------------------
Yeah, don't hold your breath for that. At least until you get a Democrat President and a Republican controlled congress. The Reps might not be all that smart, but they got the nuts to do what it takes to be in charge. Someday with modern medical advances we will create new and improved Democrat congressmen with spines.
What JeffCO Johnson said.
I think HRC/Obama is can't lose and would Obama the on the job training he needs.
Plus he would be an automatic in 2016.
If HRC wins and chooses Obama for VP I'll know she really means it when she says she wants to move this country in a new direction.
I'm sure a Jeff Davis/Nathan Bedford Forrest ticket would sweep teh South. Clean up your own room or get the fuck out of our house.
You suggesting the South secede from the Union again, or are you asking me to leave the blog?
But I'm only going to suck his cock if he gives me universal health care.
Universal Tastee Freeze!
I think HRC/Obama is can't lose and would Obama the on the job training he needs.
Even Simels likes that concept.
I've gotta go. BBL.
Because there ain't a Democrat alive who can come close to the mass popularity of a manly man lik Fred Thomps-- er, Rudy Giulia-- er, John McCain! dave™©
[smacks forehead] Of course! I have *got* to start watching more mainstream media!
"Even Simels likes that concept."
wow.
“I didn’t come of age in the ’60s. I’m not invested in them.”
http://correntewire.com/
bush_lat...ism_and_clarity
Yes, I know he's charismatic and excites some people, gives a good speech, but he can also be an arrogant prick.
-
Yeah, don't hold your breath for that. At least until you get a Democrat President and a Republican controlled congress.
Democratic Congresses haven't been all that supportive of Democratic Presidents. And I look forward to the return of split government in 2010.
Secede away.
Well, Sadly No! has this hilarious medley of John McCain disses from over at Townhall.com, including this one:
"Is it any wonder McCain is a poster child for Democrats and EDS [Erectile Dysfunction Syndrome]? Apparently, he has always needed a little artificial help to get the job done."
Chart: Polls In Super Tuesday States Show McCain Has It Made
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/
20...al_overview.php
Also dem polls in the right hand margin.
Yes, I know he's charismatic and excites some people, gives a good speech, but he can also be an arrogant prick.
-
QuentinCompson
Comes with the territory. Presidents can"t ever be everything we hope for. That would require an honest person who is really good at lying, among other things. Arrogance often accompanies many critical characteristics ie confidence.
Secede away.
a. hooliganensis
What a fucking wonderful neighbor you are.
Secede away.
Hey we tried once, y'all wouldn't let us. You had your chance. Now you want a do-over? I don't THINK so.
Everytime you read a poster (and this is on all the boards) who complains that Obama has too much charisma and his supporters are too enthusiastic, you are hearing the voice of another victim of The Dark Year, of the Bush Administration.
Folks, they really did a number on you.
If Romney bows out, it wil be all about the US Senators.
First time since 1960.
Secede away.
Hey we tried once, y'all wouldn't let us. You had your chance. Now you want a do-over? I don't THINK so.
The Constitution doesn't really allow for secession or dissolution. Contrast to the Articles.
Hey we tried once, y'all wouldn't let us. You had your chance. Now you want a do-over? I don't THINK so.
If at first you don't secede, try, try again.
And I want an ascendant Congress with a descendant Executive...
NTodd, Thread Führer
...and Venus in the house of Pluto or something like that...
Big mistake. Should have let you go. Your a drag.
If at first you don't secede, try, try again.
OK, that was a good one!
...and Venus in the house of Pluto or something like that...
elkal
I think Pluto got evicted
Coke, bitch. Or a bingo. NTodd
Hey, I just took longer to hit Publish. But being a fair guy, how about my last Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale?
"Is Paul Volcker the new Robert Rubin? Is it possible that Mr. Volcker is somehow tutoring Obama? Is it possible that Obama is more financially conservative than originally believed?" - Larry 'Breathless' Kudlow
http://kudlowsmoneypolitics.blog...bert-
rubin.html
Grab your wallet.
-
Big mistake. Should have let you go. Your a drag.
Yes this is true, we are. We hate taxes but we sure love that federal government money.
Which is why when Dems nominate bloodless wonks they tend to get slaughtered like hogs.
driftglass
always worth repeating, this guy.
I been going to the same thread for twenty years, praising Jesus
...and Venus in the house of Pluto or something like that...
elkal
-----------
Pluto doesn't have a house anymore. Just a cot and a blanket.
Folks, they really did a number on you.
Every time I hard someone refer to me as "folks" I check for my wallet.
If at first you don't secede, try, try again.
Not funny to us Quebecois.
Meanwhile, Orange Satan takes a break from their new all-Obama-all-the-time format to point out what a batshit insane piece of fucking shit Michael Wiener is.
Addison owes me an RC Cola on ice, with a slice of lime.
The Constitution doesn't really allow for secession or dissolution. Contrast to the Articles.
NTodd, Thread Führer
I have heard that Texas can divideitself into 5 states, something about when they were admitted to the Union.
Big mistake. Should have let you go. Your a drag.
Very astute.
Addison owes me an RC Cola on ice, with a slice of lime.
bill
--------------------
Ah, RC Cola. It's been a while. Now I want one.....
Not funny to us Quebecois.
aangus
Trust me, it was funny! Your ailment is affecting the humour centre of your brain.
"Everytime you read a poster (and this is on all the boards) who complains that Obama has too much charisma and his supporters are too enthusiastic, you are hearing the voice of another victim of The Dark Year, of the Bush Administration.
Folks, they really did a number on you.
Carol"
Ha! If they didn't exist you couldn't make them up.
Every time I hear someone refer to me as "folks" I check for my wallet.
I reach for my "Killfile" button, personally...
wow
This country has a case of fallen principles and needs to see Dr. Obama, Puediatrist
I have heard that Texas can divideitself into 5 states, something about when they were admitted to the Union.
God help us all.
Yes this is true, we are. We hate taxes but we sure love that federal government money.
Southern Beale
We don't have a really big national project that grabs the attention of the nation. No enormous space rocket to the Moon, no winning WWII, no Marshall plan, no Hoover Dam, no curing polio, no US highway system.
We're bored with the "Experiment", I think.
I have heard that Texas can divideitself into 5 states, something about when they were admitted to the Union.
But where will they put the extra stars on the flag?
Silly season is upon us and people are being silly. I hate it when that happens. 
I have heard that Texas can divideitself into 5 states, something about when they were admitted to the Union.
Yes, although Congress would still need to approve thanks to Article IV.
We might as well go back to the suspicion of those dirty Jews who have deposited 9 dog turds on my lawn this week.
... what a batshit insane piece of fucking shit Michael Wiener is.
Oh lord, do I have to look?
We don't have a really big national project that grabs the attention of the nation.
In the right hands, energy self-sufficiency or national healthcare could be such a big national project.
I have heard that Texas can divideitself into 5 states, something about when they were admitted to the Union.
---------------
I think its "up to" 5 states. Regardless, I don't see them doing that...unless Austin were to secede.
I have heard that Texas can divideitself into 5 states, something about when they were admitted to the Union.
Adding: that's not the same as secession. In fact, it's a Constitutional process.
Trust me, it was funny!
Shouldn't take me too seroiously.
It is funny to me.
I'm always using the South Carolina example vs seperatists.
Thay usually arn't very amused with it.
But where will they put the extra stars on the flag?
SteveNS
On the back
We don't have a really big national project that grabs the attention of the nation.
We were supposed to go to Mars, remember?
Oh lord, do I have to look?
It's actually pretty similar to some of the older Howard Stern stuff, but without any of Howard's wit.
I have heard that Texas can divideitself into 5 states,
Texformers!!
“I didn’t come of age in the ’60s. I’m not invested in them.”
Oooooooooooh.....well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse ME!
repub Maine caucuses look like:
51% romney
21% mccain
18% paul
5% huckabee
We don't have a really big national project that grabs the attention of the nation.
Yeah, it's so easy tp forget about the rape of Iraq, let alone that one country that isn't even Arab over in those Russian mountains...
We don't have a really big national project that grabs the attention of the nation.
What about the National Corporate Engorgement Race between Halliburton and Blackwater? America loves an underdog.
-
If veterans sleeping and starving under bridges who do not have healthcare or any means of support doesn't "grab" the people, nothing will.
This may be controversial, but so be it:
IT WAS PERFECTLY LEGAL TO FIRE UPON FORT SUMTER!
There - I've said it, and I'm glad!!!
We were supposed to go to Mars, remember?
Southern Beale
Sorry! Something came up at the last minute, I had to cancel - I meant to call... really!
I look forward to the return of split government in 2010.
Why? Just on principle? Sorry, it's going to be hard enough to get a Blue-Dog riddled Dem Congress to address universal health care, climate change and other urgent problems. With Rethugs back in, progressives lose any leverage to enact change.
I have heard that Texas can divideitself into 5 states,
Texformers!!
elkal
---------------
More like "Textron!!!"
A giant cowboy robot composed of five smaller robots....including a longhorn, a couger, a horse, a pickup, and a high school football player.
Thay usually arn't very amused with it.
Never make fun of someone's delusion of being oppressed.
We don't have a really big national project that grabs the attention of the nation.
We were supposed to go to Mars, remember?
Well, before that, we're supposed to return to the moon by 2018. But right now the command module will be destroyed by the launch vehicle, thanks to vibrations from the rocket engines. We are assured that NASA will fix that problem...
Nullification?
I look forward to the return of split government in 2010.
Why? Just on principle? Sorry, it's going to be hard enough to get a Blue-Dog riddled Dem Congress to address universal health care, climate change and other urgent problems. With Rethugs back in, progressives lose any leverage to enact change.
Because single-party rule is always dangerous, no matter who's in charge. And the threat of split government is the leverage we have against the Democrats so they'll actually do what needs to be done.
A giant cowboy robot composed of five smaller robots....including a longhorn, a couger, a horse, a pickup, and a high school football player.
Addison
Which one is the cheerleader?
Hillary and Bill at 23 years old would despise the people they've become. Hell their 1992 selves would hate what they've done to their ideals.
Bill's been flying off to cozy up with
dictators and trading favors for multi million dollar checks for his foundation and library/monument to himself. When asked during the last debate "if she can't control him on the campaign trail how will she control in the White House" she let loose with another one of those, "I'm being unfairly attacked" dogwhistle laughs meant to get anyone sympathetic to her to ignore the question and her nonanswer.
Look up those NY Times articles about Bill that have gotten no play. If she gets the nomination Repubs will crucify us with this stuff. Any liberal/progressive who votes for Hillary is going to be suffering buyers remorse before long.
We have a chance to nominate the real heir to RFK and JFK folks. I'm 52 years old. I remember what it was like. It's not only ok to be idealistic again it's the only practical way to save this country. Obama is the real deal. Look up his bio. Read his books. If we don't elect him we are blowing our last best chance.
Presidents can"t ever be everything we hope for. That would require an honest person who is really good at lying, among other things. Arrogance often accompanies many critical characteristics ie confidence.
bill
they tell me you want a arrogant bastard in an airline pilot. i can say they certainly don't disappoint.
when it's crash landing time i want the bastard to know he's going to pull it off. and it's crash landing time in america.
oh jebus, why am i think'n of monkey boys flight suit?
the legality of secessiton turned out to be a military question.
If veterans sleeping and starving under bridges who do not have healthcare or any means of support doesn't "grab" the people, nothing will.
Shorter Conservative response: They volunteered so fuck 'em.
Yeah, it's so easy tp forget about the rape of Iraq, let alone that one country that isn't even Arab over in those Russian mountains...
k&y,nothingbutmammals
Yep, k&y, our Tamerlane-like invasion of Iraq was completely blacked out of network signal.
markg8 | 02.02.08 - 9:19 pm
Talk about laying it on thick!
Hillary and Bill at 23 years old would despise the people they've become.
Oh hell, let's be honest, Southern Beale at 23 would despise the person she's become. I was picketing the Canadian embassy hollering "Stop the slaughter! Save the seals!" at 23. Now I want to emigrate.
Hillary and Bill at 23 years old would despise the people they've become. Hell their 1992 selves would hate what they've done to their ideals.
I love mindreaders. What am I thinking now?
when it's crash landing time i want the bastard to know he's going to pull it off. and it's crash landing time in america.
W thought he was going to pull of the Iraqrash landing too...
Because single-party rule is always dangerous, no matter who's in charge. And the threat of split government is the leverage we have against the Democrats so they'll actually do what needs to be done.
From the "Collected Sayings of President Nader".
I look forward to the return of split government in 2010.
I don't want another 1994!
Presidents can't ever be anything we hope for. That's how we come to fight over a Republican pro-tirture hawk, a Nazi pro-torture hawk, a Democratic pro-torture hawk and a ... uh ... Oprahnomic feel-good ineptly but nonthreateningly dancing pro-torture hawk.
I love mindreaders. What am I thinking now?
NTodd, Thread Führer
Isn't this a family blog?
I love mindreaders. What am I thinking now?
NTodd, Thread Führer
Hermione Granger is fucking hot?
I love mindreaders. What am I thinking now?
NTodd, Thread Führer
I'm getting a "T" and an "F".... what does ice cream and parking lot mean to anyone here?
It does look like an iPod ad.
Hillary and Bill at 23 years old would despise the people they've b--
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
If veterans sleeping and starving under bridges who do not have healthcare or any means of support doesn't "grab" the people, nothing will.
Bill O'Reilly tells them these stories are false and when John Edwards talks about homeless vets in New Orleans, Bill O'Reilly says he "calls the campaign to find out where they are" but the campaign "refuses to tell him" or some such made up BS.
As if.
I eagerly await Bill O'Reilly's spectacular flameout. If the falafel talk couldn't do it, though, I fear nothing will.
the legality of secessiton turned out to be a military question.
Well, the legal question *practically* became a military question, but the reason the military was mobilized is because Lincoln made the correct legal decision: secession was not Constitutional.
'course, I disagree with the military solution to the problem, but he didn't ask me.
We have a chance to nominate the real heir to RFK and JFK folks.
This is not a fucking aristocracy. Political offices are not inherited.
Nuclear Leaks and Response Tested Obama in Senate
Since 2003, executives and employees of Exelon, which is based in Illinois, have contributed at least $227,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaigns for the United States Senate and for president. Two top Exelon officials, Frank M. Clark, executive vice president, and John W. Rogers Jr., a director, are among his largest fund-raisers.
Another Obama donor, John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon, is also chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute, the nuclear power industry’s lobbying group, based in Washington. Exelon’s support for Mr. Obama far exceeds its support for any other presidential candidate.
In addition, Mr. Obama’s chief political strategist, David Axelrod, has worked as a consultant to Exelon. A spokeswoman for Exelon said Mr. Axelrod’s company had helped an Exelon subsidiary, Commonwealth Edison, with communications strategy periodically since 2002, but had no involvement in the leak controversy or other nuclear issues.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/0...int&
oref=slogin
We have a chance to nominate the real heir to RFK and JFK folks.
Very happy that you feel that way.
Next, please!
I love mindreaders. What am I thinking now?
"Gonna take off my pants!"
if liin coln lost the war he would have lost the legal argument. that was my minor point.
Evening, Moonbats!
What does it mean, "the real deal?"
hey hecate
On the other hand, I have increasing doubts about Obama.
sister of ye | 02.02.08 - 8:40 pm | #
Why do people who have been consistently against Obama say this kind of thing so often?
Because single-party rule is always dangerous, no matter who's in
charge. And the threat of split government is the leverage we have
against the Democrats so they'll actually do what needs to be done.
Holy shit, it's actually a sentiment that's not totally offensive to the founding principles of the nation.
I'm falling asleep sitting here.
Crap. Saturday night and I'm too tired to go out and play.
Presidents can't ever be anything we hope for.
Sometimes, they, on balance, are much wiser than we ever deserved.
Because single-party rule is always dangerous, no matter who's in charge. And the threat of split government is the leverage we have against the Democrats so they'll actually do what needs to be done.
From the "Collected Sayings of President Nader".
Nope, not even close. But thanks for playing.
When 2010 comes around, if the Democrats haven't done their jobs, it's most likely because they have still allowed themselves to be distracted by silliness like condemning MoveOn, "protecting" Christmas and other bullshit. Further, they will feel empowered to do whatever the hell they want, which is not necessarily what the People elected them to do.
If you don't accept the notion of leverage that scares incumbents, then you've effectively given up any control over our representation. Incumbents right now don't really fear for their jobs, which is the major check built into the Constitution.
So don't pull that Naderite bullshit on me, thanks.
Lots of poetry at the homepage.
Y'know, most of us, were we to be honest, were pieces of work at 23. I'm not talking of the storied move to the right alleged to be the inevitable detritus of maturity. I'm talking about a move away from the narcissism and egocentricity of adolescence, a recognition that the world is more complex than it appears to the young.
"the real deal?"
Madison Ave. doublespeak!
if liin coln lost the war--
Well, being a Klingon, he would hopefully have died in battle...
Hillary and Bill at 23 years old would despise the people they've become.
People get older.
No one has the same mindset in their 50s and 60s that they had at 23.
Get real!
Okay, so asking people to guess what I'm thinking is a bad idea...
My S-I-L don't know what we think yet. It's interesting. Remember: she is no longer the gimp. Her new nickname is "Little B". Also, I gave the baby back to her parents. It was hard, but I did it.
Hi, trifecta! How's it going?
if liin coln lost the war he would have lost the legal argument. that was my minor point.
euphronius, Day Job
------------------
Anytime something reaches the point of armed warfare...all legal, constitutional, and other points become military questions. Thats just the way it is. The only laws that exist are the ones that are enforced, and the winner does the enforcing.
I'll say this for trollie, at least he's switched to new characters. Even if they still put Trademark Dave to sleep.
the world is more complex than it appears to the young
That's where they get you.
-
Okay, so asking people to guess what I'm thinking is a bad idea...
No shit!!!
going great Hecate.
How about yourself?
I changed my mind. S-I-L will always be known as the gimp.
Y'know, most of us, were we to be honest, were pieces of work at 23.
Raises hand.
liin coln, heh eh eh
Oh yeah:
SteveNS
NTodd: agreed, in that the Democrats, when trying to prove themselves acceptable to their enemies, invariably fail, while succeeding in proving themselves unacceptable to their friends. I'd also add that they might fail by uncritically embracing a pusillanimous incrementalism. There are clear, clean breaks that need to be made with the immediate Bushist past. The Democrats come into power and don't do that, they're in trouble, as are we all.
Y'know, most of us, were we to be honest, were pieces of work at 23.
I often tell the kidsthesedays I consider myself to have had my head firmly up my ass at least into my late 20s.
The sudden appearance of oppo-stories here on our little blog doesn't feel the slightest bit forced does it boys and girls? I'm sure they aren't the slightest bit concern trollish at all.
I was still in school at 23. I knew everything then.
evening bats
so people on ebay are pretty silly. I got $172 for an AMD motherboard and processor that I was about to throw in the garbage. and $25 for an old VPN router
Y'know, most of us, were we to be honest, were pieces of work at 23.
I wish I'd had more sex at 23.
I am much more liberal than in my younger years...
Y'know, most of us, were we to be honest, were pieces of work at 23.
Raises hand.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
the real deal=searly shaquille o'neil nickname
Y'know, most of us, were we to be honest, were pieces of work at 23. I'm not talking of the storied move to the right alleged to be the inevitable detritus of maturity. I'm talking about a move away from the narcissism and egocentricity of adolescence, a recognition that the world is more complex than it appears to the young.
ProfWombat
-------------------
I happened to be wise and mature beyond my years back in the 80's, and any stories that may surface about me at hair band concerts are a bunch of damned lies.
How about yourself?
I am wonderful. It was sunny and in the 50s today. Cleaned this morning and had a houseful of witches for Imbolc. Just got them out and the dishes in the diswasher. Martini in hand and Miss Thing on my lap. Life is v. good.
if liin coln lost the war--
Well, being a Klingon, he would hopefully have died in battle...
dave™©
"Heeelppp mmmeeeeee, Kiiiirk!"
I read a coupla Christmas gift books on Lincoln recently. One was looking at Booth's assassination and manhunt.
It was startling, that Lincoln would regularly walk down the streets of DC, by himself, down to the signal office, to get the latest bulletins from the battlefield.
Jesus Christ.
Okay, so asking people to guess what I'm thinking is a bad idea...
----------
Perhaps you should start smaller and just ask them to pull your finger.
I beg to differ i shall change my own nickname, and yes i no longer am the g, now the little b have taken over monica's computer and she to shall get a very new nice nickname!
"the real deal=searly shaquille o'neil nickname"
Does that mean Obama will give us a real healthcare system in between playing basketball er what?
I was 23 when I entered the monastery -- I was in a serious mode
And the 1860 policy for seeing the President, consisted largely of being equipped with a proper calling card.
I was still in school at 23. I knew everything then.
Reminds me of the old saying:
Every time that I learn something new it raises three more questions. As time goes by it seems that I know less and less about anything.
I wish that I was 18 again and knew everything!
"Because single-party rule is always dangerous, no matter who's in charge. And the threat of split government is the leverage we have against the Democrats so they'll actually do what needs to be done.
NTodd, Thread Führer"
Oh really?
How so?
I recall that when the Dems held both the Congress and Executive branch (not to mention a more balanced Supreme Court) in the early 90s, nothing was done to reverse Reaganomics...
Unless you consider inaction dangerous, then maybe you have a point...
!
uh... WTF?
“Even when you discuss war, the frame of reference is always Viet Nam. That’s not my frame of reference. My frame of reference is ’what works.’ Even when I first opposed the war in Iraq, my first line was ’I don’t oppose all wars, I just oppose dumb wars’ specifically to make clear that this is not just some anti-military ’70’s love in approach.”
http://correntewire.com/
bush_lat...ism_and_clarity
And this guy hides behind Dr. King's skirt when it suits him? Arrogant, manipulative prick.
-
I'm sure they aren't the slightest bit concern trollish at all. catalexis
Folks, let's face it, if we're honest with ourselves, there really is no other way to think about it than what I'm about to expound on at length and under several different nyms.
Even if they still put Trademark Dave to sleep.
Try as they might, they can't keep my Matlock-Sense from "ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz"-ing!
Romney Wins Maine Caucuses
AUGUSTA, Maine (AP) - Mitt Romney won the presidential preference voting context by Maine Republicans on Saturday in the party's municipal caucuses, which were heavily attended across the state.
Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, had a little over half of the vote with about two-thirds of the towns holding caucuses reporting. John McCain worked to keep his vote above 20 percent, trailed by Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee.
Hilarious Ann Coulter post at Orcinus. Apparently Ann won't be addressing the CPAC conference next week for the first time in something like 10 years:
"The Young Americans for Freedom, one of CPAC's three main sponsors, has invited her to speak at a separate YAF event that will take place at the conference. So she will have her moment to spew -- but she won't be having it on the main stage, in front of the national TV cameras. In fact, off in that corner, she'll be delightfully easy to ignore.
"What we should not ignore is the victory this represents for both progressives -- who decided some time back that it was time to cut off Coulter's oxygen supply -- and for principled conservatives, who in the past year also began agitating for CPAC to shut her out, saying that her moment was over and her continued presence was actually hurting the party.
"Apparently, the pressure built to the point where De Pasquale, who also counted herself as a close personal friend of Ann's, finally had to pull the plug."
The dems had control for two years, hardly breathtaking.
NTodd needs to put has pants on
Thers is obsessed with bacon
Moscowitz can't find a rhyme for orange
And I can't find a finish for this bit.
I am much more liberal than in my younger years...
Politically I've always been liberal. But personally I'm more willing to give myself a break.
I recall that when the Dems held both the Congress and Executive branch (not to mention a more balanced Supreme Court) in the early 90s, nothing was done to reverse Reaganomics...
Indeed, thank you for proving my fucking point.
Yet we still have some semblance of peace and prosperity, not to mention SCOTUS appointments that weren't totally heinous.
"Apparently, the pressure built to the point where De Pasquale, who also counted herself as a close personal friend of Ann's, finally had to pull the plug."
I was hoping this was about Coulter and euthanasia.
"I recall that when the Dems held both the Congress and Executive branch (not to mention a more balanced Supreme Court) in the early 90s, nothing was done to reverse Reaganomics...
Unless you consider inaction dangerous, then maybe you have a point...
!
Elias"
Interesting. What planet did you say you were on?
And this guy hides behind Dr. King's skirt when it suits him? Arrogant, manipulative prick.
Duh, he's a politician. But he harkens more to Malcom X (before he transformed, just before he was assassinated).
:Try as they might, they can't keep my Matlock-Sense from "ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz"-ing! dave™©
Goddam prince among men, he is!
mrs. ibrahim al-jafaari:
warondandruff's wording might be a little imprecise (although his point was still clear to anyone who wasn't attempting to twist his meaning); but at least he didn't stoop to put words in your mouth.
I'll take imprecision over overt dishonesty any day. Asshole.
I was still in school at 23. I knew everything then.
Actually now that I think about it, at 23 I was working my very first job at a federal recreation area. I was dating a hot wildlife biologist and was having plenty of hot sex.
Good times, good times.
I understand that Coulter says she will vote for Hillary if McCain wins the Republican nomination (I think I saw that on the Carpetbagger Report)
I was hoping this was about Coulter and euthanasia.
SteveNS
My daughter was over at Crooks and Liars earlier.
Boy, did they trash her!
I recall that when the Dems held both the Congress and Executive branch (not to mention a more balanced Supreme Court) in the early 90s, nothing was done to reverse Reaganomics...
Unless you consider inaction dangerous, then maybe you have a point...
What did your Greens do?
And this guy hides behind Dr. King's skirt when it suits him? Arrogant, manipulative prick.
-
QuentinCompson | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 9:33 pm | #
You and the correntwire people are bitterly arguing a position which defies logic and sense and that requires us to belived that everyone from Ted Kennedy to Jesse Jackson Jr. to Barbara Lee are moronic and naive children who need the corrective of your mature insight.
I smell socks. And puppets!
“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not, and a way that Bill Clinton did not,” he said, describing Reagan as appealing to a sentiment that, “We want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.”
Turn up your iPod, and dance.
Moscowitz can't find a rhyme for orange
HINT A RHYME DOESN"T HAVE TO BE ONE WORD
"What we should not ignore is the victory this represents for both progressives -- who decided some time back that it was time to cut off Coulter's oxygen supply
Not to burst their ebulliance, but I'm pretty sure Culter is anaerobic.
I understand that Coulter says she will vote for Hillary
Will she be permitted to vote at all?
I mean, wasn't she having problems about that?
“Even when you discuss war, the frame of reference is always Viet Nam. That’s not my frame of reference. My frame of reference is ’what works.’
Most of the crap spewed by the Left and the Right is a bunch of theoretical garbage that never has, and never will, become operational.
So I hardly think Obama talking about war this way is arrogant. Quite the opposite.
"Interesting"? It's AWESOME.
W thought he was going to pull of the Iraqrash landing too...
elkal
yeah, but that was a kamikaze mission.
what my daddy used to say to me was "if i was as smart as you when i was 18 i'd be somebody by now." yeah, yeah, what ever old man.
now i understand.
I understand that Coulter says she will vote for Hillary if McCain wins the Republican nomination
Providing she remembers the proper place to vote!
I understand that Coulter says she will vote for Hillary if McCain wins the Republican nomination (I think I saw that on the Carpetbagger Report)
Oh, that's just Ann being outrageous, trying to grab whatever shred of attention she can. She was being sarcastic.
Prior,
Wow; I didn't know you entered the monastery that young.
How's your ankle feeling?
Doggril, are you saying I am imprecise. The nerve!! Heh!
MMMMAAAAAATTTTLLLOOOOCCCCCKKKK
I recall that when the Dems held both the Congress and Executive branch (not to mention a more balanced Supreme Court) in the early 90s, nothing was done to reverse Reaganomics...
Indeed, thank you for proving my fucking point.
Yet we still have some semblance of peace and prosperity, not to mention SCOTUS appointments that weren't totally heinous.
NTodd, Thread Führer
Thanks for leaving this out of my original post:
"Unless you consider inaction dangerous, then maybe you have a point..."
...which makes things a bit less confrontational...
...but I see that's not what you prefer.
?
some scumbag republican push poller called me this afternoon. fortunately I wasn't around to hear it ring...
looks like anything in the vicinity of (202)552-19xx is a GOP phonespamming operation. anybody know whether david bossie and dick morris are working together these days?
arguing a position which defies logic and sense and that requires us to belived that everyone from Ted Kennedy to Jesse Jackson Jr. to Barbara Lee are moronic and naive children
So it's you're contention that pols *only* support other pols publicly out of deep-seated conviction and belief?
I mean, wasn't she having problems about that?
Yeah, funny how that worked out. Something about an ex-boyfriend in the FBI pressuring the DA in whatever county in Florida it was and POOF! Problem solved!
“Even when you discuss war, the frame of reference is always Viet Nam. That’s not my frame of reference. My frame of reference is ’what works.’
"What works?" is a good question. War is not the answer.
Dammit, your, not you're. Must eat.
Atrios said he thought Romney would be the hardest for a Dem to beat.
Even after the Lincoln and Garfield assassinations, and the assassination of the Mayor of Miami in 1933, with FDR seated next to him, US Presidents didn't really fuck with up-close Secret Service protection, until the assassination attempt on Harry Truman.
After that, you had a phalanx, anywhere the President, or any of his family, happenned to be.
Hecate --
Yes -- I've been in the monastery most of my life
My ankle is usually a dull ache -- it is just hard to get comfortable to get to sleep
Monday is "hump day" -- halfway between having the fiberglass cast put on to having it cut off -- even though a removable walking cast comes next, it has to be a major improvement!
That should be gone by Maundy Thursday -- this will be one Lent when I am REALLY looking forward to Easter! (To say nothing of the fact that Low Sunday is EschaCon08 weekend!)
Hecate: war often works quite well, if your goal is to aggrandize power in an unaccountable executive...
I smell socks. And puppets!
Trollie's puppets sew socks that smell!
Thanks for leaving this out of my original post:
"Unless you consider inaction dangerous, then maybe you have a point..."
...which makes things a bit less confrontational...
Given your previous history, I assume you are just going to bitch about any response. So fuck off.
"What works?" is a good question. War is not the answer.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
What's it good for?
Dammit, your, not you're. Must eat.
JeffCO
me fail english that's unpossible
War is not the answer.
DING, DING, DING, DING!!!
We have a winner!
So it's you're contention that pols *only* support other pols publicly out of deep-seated conviction and belief?
JeffCO | 02.02.08 - 9:40 pm | #
So politicians who have devoted their lives to social justice and progressive causes are supporting Obama because ?
david bossie...
Funny you should mention that. Bossie's in Romney's camp:
“He tries to talk the [conservative] talk, but he has never walked the walk,” said David Bossie, president of Citizens United, a right-wing pressure group running anti-McCain television advertisements describing the senator as “surprisingly liberal”. Amid warnings that no Republican can hope to reach the White House without the support of conservative voters, the party’s evangelical wing has become embroiled in a fratricidal debate over McCain’s perceived ideological failings.
Something about an ex-boyfriend in the FBI
She might have a lot of those. In my mind's eye I see a really scummy motel in the vicinity of Quantico.
not to mention SCOTUS appointments that weren't totally heinous.
The Rethugs held up quite a number of appointments on other levels, however. They created a backlog of unfilled judicial positions, which they then pointed to as a crisis to push thru their reactionary picks when Bush got into office.
There has been a lot of injustice taking place on those levels since 2001.
I know a WWII veteran who is a democrat and a union member whose eyes glaze over at the thought of McCain being president. The veterans often just roll the hell over belly up to be gutten when he comes in view.
Trollies answer questions with questions. Just sayin'.
do whatever it takes to stop this nation from torturing people.
MP | 02.02.08 - 8:35 pm | #
.....yes, that would be nice.....extraordinary rendition too......maybe we could stop indefinite detention as well.
And maybe..just maybe...we'd quit spending $200 billion a year to fuckin kill Iraqis!
Hecate: war often works quite well, if your goal is to aggrandize power in an unaccountable executive...
In a related vein:
"It is not a myth that violence can alter events. It is a myth that it gives power to the people."
the party’s evangelical wing has become embroiled in a fratricidal debate over McCain’s perceived ideological failings.
Fratricidal. I like the sound of that. Could not happen to a nicer bunch of people.
I watched The Wind That Shakes The Barley earlier and now I'm kinda watching Ghandi.
Man the Brits were some sons of bitches.
GravatarTrollies answer questions with questions. Just sayin'.
JeffCO | 02.02.08 - 9:45 pm | #
Dipshits with no arguments call people trolls for showing them up.
After that, you had a phalanx, anywhere the President, or any of his family, happenned to be.
Unless your last name starts with a "K." The Secret Service is very strict about the alphabet.
Hecate --
You can get T-shirts & tote bags with this burka cartoon (& although it might seem more appropriate for guys, the burka-ed characters are acx-tually Jesus & Mo)
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2007/0...07/02/22/hijab/
I understand the cartoon is banned in Pakistan, but don't know how the cartoonist survives in the UK!
Hecate: war often works quite well, if your goal is to aggrandize power in an unaccountable executive...
Only in the short term. War literally never works, never solves the real problems. It's a failure of politics and other systems.
now I'm kinda watching Ghandi.
Man the Brits were some sons of bitches.
Indeed. You up to the massacre at Amritsa yet? Gen Dyer was a special kind of asshole.
Still doesn't answer my question.
"So politicians who have devoted their lives to social justice and progressive causes are supporting Obama because ?"
Mesmerized by a trickster?
Atrios said he thought the recession wouldn't be that bad.
Thing I greatly admire about the Secret Service White House detail, is that they are bored out of their minds, most of the time. But these people will actually put their body in front of a bullet not intended for them, if it comes to that.
Good God, that is one hell of a job to have.
"Given your previous history, I assume you are just going to bitch about any response. So fuck off.
NTodd, Thread Führer"
What's wrong? Do you feel intimidated?
Oh, I think I know what this is about...
I remember you now.
Speaking of the Vietnam War and a possible comparison to Iraq, you're the one who insisted that the term "terrorism" was never used by US officials to describe the NLF until I posted quotes from people like Henry Cabot Lodge showing precisely that...
Now I remember you.
?
It's a failure of politics and other systems.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
I thought it was an extension of policy by other means?
I watched The Wind That Shakes The Barley ...
We saw that movie.
I'm embarrassed to say I didn't understand it.
Even though we all speak the same English, sometimes I need subtitles in these Irish and British movies.
NTodd: yup, agreed entirely.
Hecate: it continues to boggle my mind that McCain is thought dangerously to the left by so many Republicans. They just don't perceive the world as do I; there's no getting around it.
What's it good for?
Absolutely, positively nothing!
Still doesn't answer my question.
Perhaps Rosencrantz has forgotten the question?
I understand the cartoon is banned in Pakistan,
No kidding.
Jeebus, I have not been in here once over the past three days where NTodd isn't arguing with someone.
re-HICA!
I got a new hat.
.
War -- like other forms of coercion, can "work" if the other party doesn't care -- non-violent resistance is essentially more cost effective than armed conflict -- the argument that if you don't fight back you might be killed is true, but seems to assume that no one gets killed in wars -- non-cooperation is really hard to overcome
Southern Beale: Jeebus, I have not been in here once over the past three days where NTodd isn't arguing with someone.
Hey, howawya? You should hang out with us locals, more.
.
Funny you should mention that. Bossie's in Romney's camp:
well, it gets me kind of ticked off when I get unsolicited calls to my mobile, because the number I publish shunts directly to voicemail. So I did a little googling around the number that called me and came up with the following CID strings:
David Bossie
Dick Morris
Citizens United
Faith & Family
GOPAC
Pres Coalition
Michael Reagan
Voter Roll Call
ACLJ
AICR/Cancer Research
the number that called me CIDs as "NEWS 3 POLL", so I assume it's a push poller. I live in a UHF market, and there doesn't seem to be a channel 3 in Birmingham, which is 100 miles away anyhow.
What's wrong? Do you feel intimidated?
No. I feel annoyed. Not unlike my cats do when they have to scoot across the floor.
Speaking of the Vietnam War and a possible comparison to Iraq, you're the one who insisted that the term "terrorism" was never used by US officials to describe the NLF until I posted quotes from people like Henry Cabot Lodge showing precisely that...
Um...no, that wasn't me. But please do keep trying.
Mesmerized by a trickster?
warondandruff | 02.02.08 - 9:47 pm | #
That's exactly it: the theory that Barbara Lee, for example, is just some naive fool who needs the embittered clarity of some commentator on a blog.
It would be one thing if you were making a fact based rational argument, but your arguments, those on Correntewire and others here only make sense if Obama is obviously a Reagan right winger who has somehow hypnotized a large collection of saavy people. The level of condescension required to make that argument is remarkable.
"Jeebus, I have not been in here once over the past three days where NTodd isn't arguing with someone.
Southern Beale"
Just a bad case of sour grapes...
.
Here's a freebie - Kennedy supported Obama b/c he *doesn't like Hillary* or Bill for that matter, and Obama is a viable alternative. Nothing more or less. Go back and look at Kennedy's involvment in Hillary's healthcare reform, or Kennedy's capitulation to Bush over senior care, or education, then explain to me again why I should read anything into his endorsement other than politics.
MP |
02.02.08 - 9:48 pm |
And they have to deal with irritating questions from off-work taxi drivers!
Yeah, I know, rhymes can be very complex, suggested even. I always admired Eminem's rhyming ability -- I just wish he wasn't such a mysogonist jerk.
looks like anything in the vicinity of (202)552-19xx is a GOP phonespamming operation.
That's the phone number at the RNC.
One thing that gives me enough confidence in Barack Obama to risk voting for him in the VA primary on the twelfth is that I truly believe that Michelle will not let him get all squirrelly on us.
I feel the same way about Elizabeth Edwards, of course.
Bill Clinton, not so much.
YMMV.
Even though we all speak the same English, sometimes I need subtitles in these Irish and British movies.
I sorta had a conversation with a guy in Dublin several years ago, and I understood maybe one out of every four words he said.
Granted, he was pretty drunk. But I'm sure the communication gap would have been there sober, too.
Elitist snobs can get like that...
*
War -- like other forms of coercion, can "work" if the other party doesn't care -- non-violent resistance is essentially more cost effective than armed conflict -- the argument that if you don't fight back you might be killed is true, but seems to assume that no one gets killed in wars -- non-cooperation is really hard to overcome
Starhawk wrote a great book about that exact concept called "The Fifth Sacred Thing." It's one of my very favorite books ever and I re-read it every couple of years.
Evening,
I dunno, the problem with being occupiers of any place other than your own is that the people there don't much like you. If you want to succeed you must either be really really nice or really really not nice.
If you are really really nice, they still will not much like you but they will take advantage of you. If you are a really really not nice, they will still not like you but will learn to fear you.
There's your choices: be taken advantage of and thought a fool or be a prick. That is why intelligent countries shy away from trying to occupy places, you know?
Hey, howawya? You should hang out with us locals, more.
Hey, Jeff! How you doing? You know I saw my first McCain bumper sticker today ... at the WHOLE FOODS!!!!
He would be very foolish to be "obviously" a right winger, Rootless. I never said he was foolish or stupid.
There is actually a thing that war is perfectly, naturally, necessarily good for. It is an international situation that the United States has only been in once.
David Bossie, president of Citizens United, a right-wing pressure group running anti-McCain television advertisements describing the senator as “surprisingly liberal”.
These fuckers would have considered Hitler "surprisingly liberal."
What a bunch of losers!
I'm with Hecate. I've occasionally proposed here, in recognition of the fact--I consider it an absolute fact--that war is per se evidence of the failure of prior policy, amending the Constitution to require that, within thirty days of any deployment of American troops into harm's way, the President, Vice President, Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State all be removed from office as a matter of law, unless a two-thirds majority of a special joint session of Congress votes to retain their services...
non-cooperation is really hard to overcome
Man, now that you mention it, I am really getting to dread bundling up my kids to go outside...
Southern Beale: Hey, Jeff! How you doing? You know I saw my first McCain bumper sticker today ... at the WHOLE FOODS!!!!
Had a bang-up day, me. Test-riding that People S200 was a nice touch to a groovy Saturday.
.
Still doesn't answer my question.
JeffCO | 02.02.08 - 9:47 pm | #
The answer to your question is that I trust Obama's progressive endorsers not to betray the main goals of their political lives. Barbara Lee is an enormously principled person. I would not automatically agree with anything she said, but I would give it a lot of credence.
requires us to belived that everyone from Ted Kennedy to Jesse Jackson Jr. to Barbara Lee are moronic and naive children who need the corrective of your mature insight.
rootless-e | 02.02.08 - 9:37 pm
Nope. You're bringing in something entirely else, something at least presented in a way that allows no dissent or disagreement in the matter once certain 'authorities' have spoken. About an election for crissakes, a thing that exists because of the legitimacy of disagreements.
Those are Obama's words quoted, and I disagree. And I object. And I reject the received wisdom from Ted Kennedy and Jesse Jackson and Paul Volcker etc.
This is Merka after all.
-
Jeebus, I have not been in here once over the past three days where NTodd isn't arguing with someone.
I have not been in here once over the past 5 years where NTodd isn't arguing with someone. Your point?
"I truly believe that Michelle will not let him get all squirrelly on us."
Does that mean he WILL give us a decent healthcare system or not?
Well, it is getting late & even though today was a holiday (Presentation of Our Lord or Purification of Our Lady of Candlemas) & tomorrow is Sunday (two holidays in a row -- well, Lent is coming soon!) I had better turn in -- be good bats!
Isn't GOPAC Newt Gingrich's thing?
It is an international situation that the United States has only been in once.
K&Y,
If you mean WWII, that didn't solve the underlying problems. The Marshall Plan solved the underlying problems and we could have done those things w/o going to war. Or maybe you mean a different war?
explain to me again why I should read anything into his endorsement other than politics.
Politics is dirty, and you're a dirty bird.
Even though we all speak the same English, sometimes I need subtitles in these Irish and British movies.
That's why closed captioning is so handy. It's on most dvd's now, except a few really old movies. It's rare to find one without it.
Jeebus, I have not been in here once over the past three days where NTodd isn't arguing with someone.
Southern Beale | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 9:49 pm | #
He enjoys it.
You look at the Reagan/Hickley clip. Those around him who didn't take a round immediately,their first instinct was to stand in the way of the gunfire.
How do you teach that?
Does that mean he WILL give us a decent healthcare system or not?
warondandruff
Why not? In due time he can steal Edwards' plan, just like Hillary.
It is hilarious to me that r-e can only make his argument by mischaracterizing others' and by a less than surprising insistence that his is the *only possible* interpretation that makes sense!!! That he has to mindread everyone else to prop up an argument that is easily made without resorting to cheap tricks has once again left me with a slightly strained credulity. Now where's my ice bag?
It is an international situation that the United States has only been in once.
When the aliens invaded on Independence Day? Otherwise, you're still pretty much wrong.
If you are a really really not nice, they will still not like you but will learn to fear you.
Or it makes the occupied more determined to strike back, which is what is happening in Iraq.
Prior,
You say Candlemas, I say Imbolc. You say po-tay-to, I say po tat o. Blessed dreams.
Test-riding that People S200 was a nice touch to a groovy Saturday.
It was a nice day for riding today. You know it's supposed to be 70 on Tuesday! And then crash down into the 30s the next day. This up and down with the temperatures is killing me.
Go back and look at Kennedy's involvment in Hillary's healthcare reform, or Kennedy's capitulation to Bush over senior care, or education, then explain to me again why I should read anything into his endorsement other than politics.
JeffCO | 02.02.08 - 9:51 pm | #
Well, you pick only one of Obama's endorsers, and your claim if true does not support the case. The Correntewire argument, requires you to believe that Kennedy picked a right wing candidate for President. That is, according to you, not only did he chose a candidate for spite, but he chose someone who is opposed to the core values he has championed throughout his political career.
Jeebus, I have not been in here once over the past three days where NTodd isn't arguing with someone.
I find NTodd and arguing to be one and the same.
Unless you have a thing for hanging out in the snow behind the Tastee Freeze.
Evening dear friends,
How I need your friendship this night.
If you mean WWII, that didn't solve the underlying problems. The Marshall Plan solved the underlying problems and we could have done those things w/o going to war. Or maybe you mean a different war?
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 9:55 pm
I'm confused.
We can; we must; we will.
We've been asked. What will we answer.
How I need your friendship this night.
Shaw Kenawe
'sup?
Steve, Obama has already he doesn't think it is fair to make everybody pay for healthcare when they don't want it.
How I need your friendship this night.
What's up?
*waves to Shaw*
What's shakin'?
It is an international situation that the United States has only been in once.
I think they refer to our insurrection against the British.
How I need your friendship this night.
Shaw! What's wrong?
He would be very foolish to be "obviously" a right winger, Rootless. I never said he was foolish or stupid.
warondandruff | 02.02.08 - 9:52 pm | #
Again, if I understand your argument it is that you are smart enough to see through Obama's deceit, but that he has hoodwinked not only dumb supporters like me, but Conyers, Jackson, Lee, and others.
Is that it?
How I need your friendship this night.
What's up, babe?
Or it makes the occupied more determined to strike back, which is what is happening in Iraq.
pie
Yes. I know that is true. The problem is that in order to succeed from this point it is necessary to become even nastier. The regimes that successfully occupied countries did this. Group punishment, torture, disappearances, segregation of segments of the population, eradication of segments of the population: these are the next steps. The Romans learned this. The Germans certainly did. We know it, but are unwilling to do it. (Thank GOODNESS!)
That is why our plan of occupying Iraq was such a piss-poor idea from its inception.
SoBeale -- Yeah. I get spoiled when it partly warms up, then crashes down, again. But I know, soon enough, my time is approaching.
Shaw -- How may we be of service?
.
It is an international situation that the United States has only been in once.
I think they refer to our insurrection against the British.
Cougarhutch | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 9:59 pm |
We weren't really the US then, more of annoying, rebellious colony.
If you mean WWII
A little bit before that old man, don't you know. With as it would happen one of our allies of WWII.
My niece, who was like my daughter, killed herself, and her service was today.
I am so drained. I've been on tranquilizers for 5 days.
I feel as though our family has been run over by a train.
How I need your friendship this night.
What's up?
You look at the Reagan/Hickley clip. Those around him who didn't take a round immediately,their first instinct was to stand in the way of the gunfire.
How do you teach that?
MP
It's called training. The same training that gets soldiers to walk into a firefight.
Some kid shot me with a round jammed into the end of the barrel of his weapon.
Rather than run away, I limped after him to kick his fucking ass.
That is what proper training will do for soldiers, and Secret Service agents.
How I need your friendship this night.
Shaw Kenawe
I am here.
One of the most basic requirements for a solution to the health care mess is universal coverage. The risk must be spread as widely as possible, ending the pernicious practice of community rating, a practice which rends the social contract and is absolutely basic to the insurance industry. The widest spread, of course, is to cover everybody--rich, poor, healthy, sick, black, white, every last goddamned citizen of the richest country on the goddamned planet.
Yes. I know that is true. The problem is that in order to succeed from this point it is necessary to become even nastier. The regimes that successfully occupied countries did this. Group punishment, torture, disappearances, segregation of segments of the population, eradication of segments of the population: these are the next steps. The Romans learned this. The Germans certainly did. We know it, but are unwilling to do it. (Thank GOODNESS!)
That is why our plan of occupying Iraq was such a piss-poor idea from its inception.
DWD - January is gone? | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 10:00 pm
Define 'succeed'.
Isn't GOPAC Newt Gingrich's thing?
I believe so. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that these numbers are a contract call center belonging to Viguerie or someone like that.
not that I care all that much.
That is why our plan of occupying Iraq was such a piss-poor idea from its inception.
It was a bad idea because it was illegal and immoral.
FLaw students protest Bybee’s torture memo
Audience members place trash bags on heads during talk by former chief of Bush’s Office of Legal Counsel
(At Yale -- Bush's alma mater, no less)
I never know the appropriate response to grief and horrid events.
.
aw Shaw...thinking of you
How do you teach that?
MP
At body armor training school.
-
My niece, who was like my daughter, killed herself, and her service was today.
Oh, sweetheart, I am so sorry, I can't imagine how horrible that must be. I am going to go off now and light some incense for her and a candle for you.
May the Goddess guard your niece. May she find her way to the Summerlands. May her friends and family know peace.
You need to be their with and for your family and know that everyone around you is a stand for all of you to get through this.
That he has to mindread everyone else to prop up an argument that is easily made without resorting to cheap tricks has once again left me with a slightly strained credulity. Now where's my ice bag?
JeffCO | 02.02.08 - 9:56 pm | #
I don't see how else to read Correntewires argument. They say, as I understand it, that Obama is essentially a republican.
Wouldn’t it be simpler for Obama just to run on the Republican ticket? They really need a decent candidate over there, and I think Obama is just as adept and far more eloquent than Romney, has better hair, a better baritone—and he doesn’t have the funny underwear thing the Mittster has, either. I’d call it a win-win situation.
Well, he doesn't seem like a Republican to me, but I'm just some chump on the internet. So look at his endorsers. If he really is a Republican, either some of the best and most dedicated progressive leaders of the last 30 years have been suckered or bought off. Right? What other explanation can there be?
Shaw Kenawe
My condolences.
Oh, Shaw that's terrible news. I'm so sorry to hear it. What a horrible thing to deal with.
Rootless, do you want a healthcare system or not?? is what I am saying. Do you want somebody to privatize Social Security, do you want to be non partisan with assholes who believe in torture, destroy the constitution, the agencies, the military, the schools, the laws, allow the cops to arrest you without legal respresentation and lock you up forever and on and on?Don't ask hat I am saying. Just read.
t
"Jackson, Lee, and others.
Is that it?
rootless-e"
I hate to get in to this but which Lee and which Jackson are talking about?
Shaw,
I am sorry. It is hard to understand the sadness of others. Peace.
Steve, Obama has already he doesn't think it is fair to make everybody pay for healthcare when they don't want it.
warondandruff
Okay, if that's your basis for deciding who should be president, then by all means go for it, and vote accordingly.
Personally, I have little doubt that if a Democrat is elected with a decent majority in both houses that the health care plan which will ultimately be enacted will be more or less the same regardless of which of the current candidates is the President.
Probably you disagree. But I don't find differences with regard to the minutiae of a particular policy issue to be the best guide, for me.
Oh, Shaw. I am so sorry.
Bummer:
Cartoonist Gus Arriola, whose long-running "Gordo" was one of the first syndicated comic strips to celebrate Hispanic culture, died Saturday following a lengthy illness, according to his publicist. He was 90 years old.
Arriola, who had suffered from Parkinson's disease for some time, died at home in Carmel Saturday with his wife, Mary Frances, by his side, according to publicist Alan Richman.
Arriola, who was born in Arizona but of Mexican-American descent, started drawing "Gordo" in 1941 and his strip about a bean farmer-turned-tour guide who taught Americans about life south of the border ran for 44 years in as many as 270 newspapers. He retired in 1995.
Fellow cartoonists praised Arriola's skill as an artist, which was also recognized last month by the Arts Council for Monterey. He was also praised for helping to break down anti-Mexican stereotypes and educating readers about life in a neighboring country.
"He became an accidental ambassador. I didn't intend for him to be, but the readers made him that," Arriola said of his main character during a 2002 interview with The Associated Press. "People would write and tell me that they went to Mexico because of reading about it in the strip."
Early in his career, when Arriola worked as an animator for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer's, his talent with pen and ink were put to use reinforcing the popular image of Mexican banditos, and his original incarnation of Gordo featured a lazy scoundrel taking siestas under a tree.
He remade the strip after a few readers complained that his work was a disservice to fellow Hispanics.
"I was going to do a Mexican Li'l Abner," Arriola said. "I was just going to be funny, then I realized that I'm depicting a real group of people here. I was caught, and I had to go with what I had created."
One of the true greats. Here's a minor sample of his later work, though his Sunday pages from the late 60s-70s are really works of art.
Shaw - I am so very sorry for what has happened to your family. If we were physically there we'd hold you in our arms and cry with you.
That is what proper training will do for soldiers, and Secret Service agents.
David (Austin Tx)
I guess, I should say, that I was in the Army, and was planning on applying to the Secret Service, after I got out, but couldn't, in good conscience be a guard for George H.W. Bush.
If Clinton were President, things would have been different.
The Obama ad is cool but it would have been even cooler if the background music was one of Ash Ra Tempel's SCHWINGUNGEN LP.
Now he's mindreading me and conflating my simple suggestion that perhaps pols endorse other pols during primary season for reasons that may include other motivations than deep-seated conviction that their guy is the one true heir with some other argument that he is also misinterpreting for his own reasons.
I am beginning to suspect r-e is very silly indeed. Also not serious.
Even though we all speak the same English, sometimes I need subtitles in these Irish and British movies.
Daniel Craig is mumbling through "The Ice House" on my tv. Wait, is he Scottish?
shaw
our condolences to you and your entire family.
My niece, who was like my daughter, killed herself, and her service was today.
Fuck. I'm so, so sorry. Having had 2 suicides in my family in the last 2 years, I understand kinda, though obviously it ain't the same.
Peace be with you and your fam.
'night, bats, and hugs to shaw.
I believe that Obama's positions are to the right of HRC's but that doesn't mean that either will govern that way.
I think they'd do better together but what do I know.
Shaw, I'm so sorry.
I hate to get in to this but which Lee and which Jackson are talking about?
hadenough | 02.02.08 - 10:03 pm | #
Barbara Lee
Jesse Jackson Jr.
warondandruff |
02.02.08 - 10:03 pm |
Right Understood. Why is it you don't think Hillary would do that to us at the first opportunity, considering who her sponsors are? Exactly what reason is there for us to believe this person is on our side?
"Oh, Shaw. I am so sorry.
pie"
Same here man...
.
If we were physically there we'd hold you in our arms and cry with you.
TEBB, uppity female
What TEBB said.
Even though we all speak the same English, sometimes I need subtitles in these Irish and British movies.
Daniel Craig is mumbling through "The Ice House" on my tv. Wait, is he Scottish?
Endeavour Morse | 02.02.08 - 10:04 pm |
Just plain old English. Maybe he was drunk?
I've been staying with my sister and her husband. I'm so afraid this will be the end of both of them.
When someone takes their own life, it kills everyone around them as well.
We're all like the walking dead.
I came here to share this because you've all been such great friends to me and to others to have gone through tragedies.
Thank you all for those comforting words. It means a lot to me to know you're all out there.
Daniel Craig is mumbling through "The Ice House" on my tv. Wait, is he Scottish?
Endeavour Morse
Watch LayerCake. He speaks proper English, but some of the other characters need a translator.
Oh Shaw Kenawee.
Words seem so inadequate.
My deepest sympathy to you and your family.
Bummer, Shaw.
Peace.
-
Buckeye,
I am pretty sure that a case can be made for the Romans successfully occupying countries for many years.
The Germans, if they had been willing to settle for what they had conquered in Europe might have succeeded. It was Hitler who pushed them into attack the the UK and Russia. (I am not an expert) But I believe if Stalin and Hitler had abided by their agreement to divide Poland, they never would have fought.
In my book the German methods of controlling the local population are dealt with quite extensively: deprivation, banning of all meetings, group punishment, public torture, complete lack of jurisprudence, and a myriad of other methods of keeping down the population.
But the problem was not in their methods, it was in their ambition.
I guess.
They say, as I understand it, that Obama is essentially a republican.
I've been saying that about Hillary for a long time now.
Face it, neither Hillary nor Obama are really from our end of the party. But that's all we've got left.
Rootless, do you want a healthcare system or not?? is what I am saying. Do you want somebody to privatize Social Security, do you want to be non partisan with assholes who believe in torture, destroy the constitution, the agencies, the military, the schools, the laws, allow the cops to arrest you without legal respresentation and lock you up forever and on and on?Don't ask hat I am saying. Just read.
t
warondandruff | 02.02.08 - 10:03 pm | #
Sigh. Even Krugman says that Obama's health insurance plan is good - he prefers Clinton's and I think he is wrong, but Obama has a perfectly reasonable health insurance plan.
Obama is against privatizing Social Security. During the debates, John Edwards attacked Clinton for her plan which he categorized as less progressive than the plan he and Obama advocated.
Obama has consistently said that he is reaching out to Republican voters, not to DC operatives. And if playing nice with Republicans is unforgivable in your book, then you must hate both Democratic candidates.
BTW, is this the post that has r-e so knickertwisted?
When debating with Obama supporters, including an ongoing exchange with a smart and swell fellow who isn’t glazy eyed, I often hear my concerns about Obama’s accommodationist rhetoric characterized like I’m expecting Obama to be foaming-at-the-mouth assaultive. As if there is no possible posture other than that and The Likable One’s full-frontal embrace of GOP frames.
Pointing out that on several occasions Obama's rhetoric makes use of GOP frames = he's a covert GOP operative?
Not only is he a mindreader, he sucks at it!
wtf happened at lane bryant?
Shaw, blessings on you.
I have no words.
Puts it all into perspective doesn't it?
.
Grief.
It has a bad name in our culture. If you can help your sister and BIL 'let it out,' well... what more can you do.
But be sure you're being taken care of, too... for what it's worth, we're here and we're not nothing.
Shaw Kenawe,
What HoneyBearKelly said.
{{{Shaw and her sister and brother-in-law}}}
I'm so very sorry for your pain.
Just plain old English. Maybe he was drunk?
Well, his character is a bit of an alcoholic, and maybe the character is supposed to be Scottish. But he's definitely mumbling.
When someone takes their own life, it kills everyone around them as well.
It does at first, and will become a permanent condition if people let it. Eventually, hopefully, everybody hurt by the act will realize that sometimes our loved ones' ability to handle pain exceeds the pain and there's nothing really evil about it. And then we discover that life carries on.
Shaw, having been not so much close to as somewhat past your position we can assure you absolutely that this comes from an inability to perceive positivity and the hole they leave is not intentional (if anything they think it'll be better for others).
The Germans, if they had been willing to settle for what they had conquered in Europe might have succeeded. It was Hitler who pushed them into attack the the UK and Russia.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the French might've had some problems with Vichy...
Shaw, I'm very sorry for your loss.
It does at first, and will become a permanent condition if people let it. Eventually, hopefully, everybody hurt by the act will realize that sometimes our loved ones' ability to handle pain exceeds the pain and there's nothing really evil about it. And then we discover that life carries on.
Yes, or the way someone once put it to me: Other fish don't get why the one who swallowed the bait seems to be going crazy.
Healthcare numbers
But the big conclusion, relevant to current debates, is on the role of mandates. Gruber compares a program of mandate-less subsidies to help people pay for insurance — broadly similar to the Obama plan — with a program that combines subsidies with mandates — broadly similar to the Edwards and Clinton plans.
The table below summarizes the key results. The mandate-less plan covers only about half the uninsured. The plan with mandates gets almost everyone, at an additional cost of $22 billion — about $1,000 per additional person covered.
Next time you hear someone telling you that the dispute over mandates is unimportant, remember this table.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com...thcare-numbers/
germany would have run out of oil eventually.
Oh, Shaw, I pray your family finds peace. I hope you all can lean on each other right now and be loving with one other.
My best friend committed suicide a few years ago. It's so hard to understand why someone would do that, so hard for those left behind to forgive themselves for not seeing "warning signs." But the truth is, there's nothing anyone could have done.
God. So sorry, Shaw.
Buckeye,
I am pretty sure that a case can be made for the Romans successfully occupying countries for many years.
The Germans, if they had been willing to settle for what they had conquered in Europe might have succeeded. It was Hitler who pushed them into attack the the UK and Russia. (I am not an expert) But I believe if Stalin and Hitler had abided by their agreement to divide Poland, they never would have fought.
In my book the German methods of controlling the local population are dealt with quite extensively: deprivation, banning of all meetings, group punishment, public torture, complete lack of jurisprudence, and a myriad of other methods of keeping down the population. ..
DWD - January is gone? | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 10:09 pm
You were mentioning succeeding in terms of being more brutal, at least that is how I was reading it. Not a an expert on the Romans, but they didn't really govern that way, as a whole.
The Germans were too brutal and overextended themselves.
I like the Obama Yes We Can video, but I'm Fucking Matt Damon is better.
Shaw Kenawee, condolences to you and your family. How old was your niece? (Please excuse me if this is too personal a question.)
I've been staying with my sister and her husband. I'm so afraid this will be the end of both of them.
They need to get into a counseling group as soon as they have the energy to do it.
I can only imagine how horrible it is for all of you.
Hugs. I wish there were something we could do to lessen the grief.
sometimes our loved ones' ability to handle pain exceeds the pain
scuse me, that should read "is exceeded by the pain."
I need to hire jdw as my editor.
The Suicide's Room
I'll bet you think the room was empty.
Wrong. There were three chairs with sturdy backs.
A lamp, good for fighting the dark.
A desk, and on the desk a wallet, some newspapers.
A carefree Buddha and a worried Christ.
Seven lucky elephants, a notebook in a drawer.
You think our addresses weren't in it?
(more)
Now he's mindreading me and conflating my simple suggestion that perhaps pols endorse other pols during primary season for reasons that may include other motivations than deep-seated conviction that their guy is the one true heir with some other argument that he is also misinterpreting for his own reasons.
[...]
JeffCO | 02.02.08 - 10:04 pm | #
God forbid I would even try to read your mind. If your point is that politicians sometimes act for less than principled reasons, color me surprised and shocked. But such a claim is not sufficient for the argument made by Lambert. He requires that not only are these progressive politicians acting tactically, but that they are actively supporting someone who is deeply antagonistic to the core values of the Democratic Party.
I've been staying with my sister and her husband. I'm so afraid this will be the end of both of them.
You are in my prayers.
"It does at first, and will become a permanent condition if people let it. Eventually, hopefully, everybody hurt by the act will realize that sometimes our loved ones' ability to handle pain exceeds the pain and there's nothing really evil about it. And then we discover that life carries on.
NTodd, Thread Führer"
Maybe you aren't the tin man I thought you were...
.
No books, no pictures, no records, you guess?
Wrong. A comforting trumpet poised in black hands.
Saskia and her cordial little flower.
Joy the spark of gods.
Odysseus stretched on the shelf in life-giving sleep
after the labors of Book Five.
The moralists
with the golden syllables of their names
inscribed on finely tanned spines.
Next to them, the politicians braced their backs.
(more)
No way out? But what about the door?
No prospects? The window had other views.
His glasses
lay on the windowsill.
And one fly buzzed -- that is, was still alive.
You think at least the note must tell us something.
But what if I say there was no note --
and he had so many friends, but all of us fit neatly
inside the empty envelope propped up against a cup.
Wislawa Szymborska
I have a sneaking suspicion that the French might've had some problems with Vichy...
NTodd, Thread Führer
Yes, and the Polish Underground was active as well. Again, I specified that I am not an expert in such things but I do believe that if Hitler had NOT tried the Eastern Front and not spent so much of his military might trying to attack the UK he would have had considerably more manpower to solidify the positions he had conquered.
I like the Obama Yes We Can video
If we don't put Obama in the White House, we are going to miss some fanfuckingtastic speeches.
just saying.
The Germans were too brutal and overextended themselves.
Which tends to happen to all empires over time.
Thank you again everyone for your comfort. Especially to those of you who have gone through this ordeal and come out whole again.
Time and courage, I guess, is what I and my family need to recover.
I'm going to try to get some sleep without pills tonight.
G'night you loving people. You are all the best.
Just plain old English. Maybe he was drunk?
Well, his character is a bit of an alcoholic, and maybe the character is supposed to be Scottish. But he's definitely mumbling.
Endeavour Morse | 02.02.08 - 10:10 pm
Probably 'acting', he's understandable in Casino Royale.
sorry for your trouble shaw. best wishes.
Maybe you aren't the tin man I thought you were...
No... you can take that to the bank.
I like the Obama Yes We Can video, but I'm Fucking Matt Damon is better.
I would pay to see it remade with Obama taking Sarah's part.
The Germans were too brutal and overextended themselves.
Which tends to happen to all empires over time.
NTodd, Thread Führer | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 10:15 pm
Yeppers.
And I'm really out of here.
I'm gone, too. 'Nite.
Brevity is also powerful
Suicide's Note
The calm cool
face of the river
asked me for a kiss
Langston Hughes
It was Hitler who pushed them into attack the the UK and Russia.
The UK attacked Germany as part of a belated and clumsy but ultimately triumphant part of its treaty with Poland. Germany probably could not get around attacking Poland, which the Germans have always felt was theirs, and with Poland came the UK. Their view of all that perfectly good farmland and piling of natural resources, marred only by a handful of inconveniently located Slavs, made the SU pretty much an extension of Poland or the Sudetenland for that matter. Really the key was the United States, which was more important in suppling and supporting our allies than in our direct fighting in the finishing blow. Consider our material aid to Stalin. Had Hitler somehow made peace with the US and UK he would have a great new empire in the center of the world, but his draconian methods, which enjoyed none of the evil pragmatism of the Romans, would still require a significant calming for any long-term sustainability.
they still would have run out of oil.
shaw: i hope that you and your family find peace and comfort.
hang in there...
I've been staying with my sister and her husband. I'm so afraid this will be the end of both of them.
{{{HUGE HUG}}}
Hang in there, they really need you now!
Goodnight, all.
Seriously though, what exactly is your dispute with this:
NOTE * Do I really have to explain why using right wing talking points matters? A year from now, nobody except policy wonks is going to remember the white papers on any candidate’s site. Rhetoric and talking points count, because they are what people will remember in a year. The talking points and the rhetoric are what the candidates are campaigning on, what people are hearing, and the kind of mandate the candidates are going to get.
So, if Obama campaigns on right wing talking points — that is, on poison pill after poison pill for progressive policies — he’s going to get a mandate for right wing talking points.
And I don’t believe the Phonebooth Theory, where Obama runs from the right, and then, once elected, jumps into a phone booth, loses the Clark Kent glasses and the suit, and emerges, garbed as Progressive Superman. That may have worked for Bush, but that’s because the Village was happy to have him go right. It won’t work for Obama, because the Village would not be happy to have him go left. And in any case, he was no mandate to go left, because he campaigned on right wing talking points. If indeed he does want to go left, which at this point I regard as at best unproven, vehement statements by the Oborg notwithstanding. The great thing about vacuous rhetoric is that you can project whatever you want into it.
Yes, and the Polish Underground was active as well. Again, I specified that I am not an expert in such things but I do believe that if Hitler had NOT tried the Eastern Front and not spent so much of his military might trying to attack the UK he would have had considerably more manpower to solidify the positions he had conquered.
Yes, and the Danes, and the Dutch, and the Czechs...
Given how much manpower was wasted on dealing with the Final Solution, I suspect you'd see things collapse in the end. The Nazis had a lot of myths to maintain which would be impossible to do forever. Just witness what happened at the Rosenstrasse...
ProfWomb,
I know that poem. Thank you for reminding me of it. Beautiful.
I posted The Lake Isle of Innisfree on the collage of pictures that the family made for her.
She was in her 40s, and very active in community theater in Winter Haven, Fla., in fact, the theater will have plaque in her honor placed in the lobby. She was quite a talented singer and actress. And so beautiful. If I have the energy, I'll post her picture on my website in a day or two as a memorial to her.
Take her and cut her out in little stars, And she will make the face of Heaven so fine That all the world will be in love with night, And pay no worship to the garish sun.
aangus, sinusitis: et tu? Seems like the only production that's up is snot production.
bo on cspan. now!
Yes We Can Fuck Matt Damon
Pointing out that on several occasions Obama's rhetoric makes use of GOP frames = he's a covert GOP operative?
Not only is he a mindreader, he sucks at it!
JeffCO | 02.02.08 - 10:10 pm | #
Try the first sentence of the story.
Wouldn’t it be simpler for Obama just to run on the Republican ticket?
Getting late and getting tired. I'm going to call it a night.
The Nazis had a lot of myths to maintain which would be impossible to do forever.
Absolutly!!!
Wow !! Did you see all of the nice HOOTERS in that video !??! WOW !!
what is it with women showing so much cleavage and boob ??? look at my implants daddy ???
jeebus
I like the Obama Yes We Can video...
Maybe I'd like it better if there was a cameo from that limo driver in "Spinal Tap"...
It was Hitler who pushed them into attack the the UK and Russia.
The UK attacked Germany as part of a belated and clumsy but ultimately triumphant part of its treaty with Poland.
Yes, but the question remained as to whether Germany needed to launch Operation Sea Lion. Goering assured Hitler that the Luftwaffe could kick ass, not unlike Rummy convinced people that we'd be out of Iraq in 30 femtoseconds thanks to his ersatz "transformation" shit.
'The Nazis had a lot of myths to maintain which would be impossible to do forever.'
Hardly unique to the Nazis. The same could be said, with some justice, of the Untied States.
She was quite a talented singer and actress. And so beautiful. If I have the energy, I'll post her picture on my website in a day or two as a memorial to her.
Please do.
limo driver: poor Bruno Kirby
Germany would have run out of oil eventually.
It did almost from the beginning!! It's really shocking to learn, after all this History Channel Hitler-worshipping garbage, how weak the Nazis really were.
When they reoccupied lands which had been held by the French since WWI, they went without ammunition and with orders to retreat at the first sign of trouble. They just got satanically lucky. Nazi Germany actually used horses --<i>horses</i>-- to transport a lot of their stuff, especially on the Eastern Front. The real idea behind the Blitzkrieg was that they weren't <i>capable</i> of fighting a long set piece (for example at Kursk and various long sieges), so they needed to be quick, to leap over their own stamina weakness and just as importantly to grab the other fellow's resources.
what is it with women showing so much cleavage and boob ??? look at my implants daddy ???
You got a problem with that?
i hoped in one hand
then i sh*t in the other hand
which filled up faster ??
and oh yeah
hope ain't a plan
'The Nazis had a lot of myths to maintain which would be impossible to do forever.'
Hardly unique to the Nazis. The same could be said, with some justice, of the Untied States.
That sounds like just a point I might've made...
Try the first sentence of the story.
Try reading beyond the first sentence of the story and respond to the specific points that are raised to justify the rhetorical first sentence.
Looking up at the stars, I know quite well
That, for all they care, I can go to hell,
But on earth indifference is the least
We have to dread from man or beast.
How should we like it were stars to burn
With a passion for us we could not return?
If equal affection cannot be,
Let the more loving one be me.
(more)
Admirer as I think I am
Of stars that do not give a damn,
I cannot, now I see them, say
I missed one terribly all day.
Were all stars to disappear or die,
I should learn to look at an empty sky
And feel its total dark sublime,
Though this might take me a little time.
Auden
Seriously though, what exactly is your dispute with this:
NOTE * Do I really have to explain why using right wing talking points matters?
[...]
JeffCO | 02.02.08 - 10:20 pm | #
I dispute that Obama uses right wing talking points. I think an argument that includes
Then there was calling unions “special interests”, a right wing talking point. Then there was tax cuts as a panacea, a right wing talking point. Meanwhile, the Oborg consistently leverage right wing talking points like “trial lawyers” to trash Edwards, not to mention Hillary hatred, all the while explaining what Obama “really means,” and airily denying it all. Then there was the trashing of Gore.
and
And now Obama wants to cram Reagan’s bullshit down our throats again?
is sloppy with the facts and not too smart with the conclusions.
Obama is clearly doing something more than appealing to Reagan supporters. If you don't want to understand what he is doing, fine. But that's not clarity or insight.
exactly ky. hence stalingrad = oil = doomed from the start.
even if they stopped at poland the economic blockade would have doomed them.
assuming an economic blockade.
Here is Lakoff on What counts as an "issue" in the Clinton-Obama Race I think he might be exactly wrong about confusing "values with programs".
There is a reason that Obama recently spoke of Reagan. Reagan understood that you win elections by drawing support from independents and the opposite side. He understood what unified the country so that he could lead it according to his vision. His vision was a radical conservative one, a vision devastating for the country and contradicted by his economic policies.
Obama understands the importance of values, connection, authenticity, trust, and identity.
But his vision is deeply progressive. He proposes to lead in a very different direction than Reagan. Crucially, he adds to that vision a streetwise pragmatism: his policies have to do more than look good on paper; they have to bring concrete material results to millions of struggling Americans in the lower and middle classes. They have to meet the criteria of a community organizer.
The Clintonian policy wonks don't seem to understand any of this. They have trivialized Reagan's political acumen as an illegitimate triumph of personality over policy. They confuse values with programs. They have underestimated authenticity and trust.
So do the pundits who pose the questions in the debates.
and I'm out of time.
The Nazis had a lot of myths to maintain which would be impossible to do forever.
Absolutly!!!
Yes, I agree of course. But it would have taken much longer I think. Or not. It is conjecture. I do know that occupying a country that does not want you there is a lose/lose proposition and the Bush Misadminstration SHOULD have figured this out.
My niece, who was like my daughter, killed herself, and her service was today.
I am so terribly sorry. My condolences to you and your family.
what is it with women showing so much cleavage and boob ??? look at my implants daddy ???
So you assume women should not be proud of their bodies and in any case only dress to attract men who become replacement daddies?
I am fascinated by your opinions and hope to read further in your newsletter.
"'The Nazis had a lot of myths to maintain which would be impossible to do forever.'
Hardly unique to the Nazis. The same could be said, with some justice, of the Untied States.
ProfWombat"
Precisely.
I've often wondered if time should be a mitigating factor in judging the atrocities committed by a nation.
What I mean is, what if the Nazis had slaughtered all of their victims and waged their aggression over,say, a 60, 70, or even 150 yr period?
During that period, they had numerous elections and changes in governments and were considered a relatively stable democracy.
Would the fact that this all occurred over a long period make it less evil?
See where I'm going?
?
4Legs, kittehs luvs furntyur.
Ruff on Riplee 2 amazng.
There were probably something like 30,000 slave ship voyages across the Atlantic over several hundred years.
I am fascinated by your opinions and hope to read further in your newsletter.
If there are boobies in it, I'll subscribe.
Truthful poems, wombat.
My mother sent me a poem when I was going through a bad patch but I don't think it has been translated anywhere., but I'm going to try here.
---
Don't fear life.
Don't fear life.
Let it enter your house
Or meet it on the road if you
are homeless.
Do not hide from life in graveyards.
The gate of death is always ajar.
---
That's the beginning.
The Clintonian policy wonks don't seem to understand any of this. They have trivialized Reagan's political acumen as an illegitimate triumph of personality over policy.
Hello?
It WAS an illegitimate triumph of personality over policy.
NTodd, Mlle has boobies. You just have to find her and the baby first.
I am fascinated by your opinions and hope to read further in your newsletter.
If there are boobies in it, I'll subscribe.
Though if there are words, I might have to pass.
boobie ships attacking stalingrad reading langston hughes.
See what you lost when you left this world, this sweet old world
The breath from your own lips, the touch of fingertips /A sweet and tender kiss
The sound of a midnight train, wearing someone's ring /Someone calling your name
Somebody so warm cradled in your arm
Didn't you think you were worth anything
See what you lost when you left this world, this sweet old world
Millions of us in love, promises made good
Your own flesh and blood
Looking for some truth, dancing with no shoes
The beat, the rhythm, the blues
The pounding of your heart's drum together with another one
Didn't you think anyone loved you
See what you lost when you left this world, this sweet old world
/lucinda williams
There were probably something like 30,000 slave ship voyages across the Atlantic over several hundred years.
Heard an interview with a guy who'd just written a book about the Atlantic slave trade. Speaking of myths, there are a lot we hold about slavery, even today...
It continues:
Fly as birds do
Don't take the ruins of the past
for this living moment.
Let the dead bury the dead
Let you greet the living future.
Stay free, without chains, as the wind
The gates of death are always open.
To continue...
And what if the US waged all of it's aggressions over a 5-10 yr period so that the Native American genocide, the invasions and occupations throughout our hemisphere, the Phillipines, Vietnam, Iraq, and the use of 2 atom bombs which in total slaughtered millions of people occurred in a very short period of time?
How would we be judged?
?
sloppy with the facts and not too smart with the conclusions.
Are you really actualy this un self-aware? I notice you once again failed to provide any argument against any of the points raised other than your opinion that they're wrong. And this: "I dispute that Obama uses right wing talking points" is simply hilarious. Are you disputing that what he says echoes RW talking points (a fact which has already been demonstrated) or that even though he is saying the same things as Republicans his words don't *mean* the same things as when the GOP says them?
So, is it worth opening a second bottle of wine or not?
NTodd, Mlle has boobies. You just have to find her and the baby first.
She might need to activate The Emergency Beacon.
So, is it worth opening a second bottle of wine or not?
Always. Unless you're at work.
And the ending:
Never say: This is mine forever
Get drunk from the bowl of life
but give it up as freely.
The riches of the world are yours
when you don't demand them.
Live fearlessly, playing the one card.
The door of death is always open.
Kaarlo Sarkia
NTodd, Thread Führer |
Homepage |
02.02.08 - 10:32 pm |
One of Brion Gysin's failed but would've-been-brilliant projects, for which he did secure a MacArthur Genius grant, was an attempt to research the <i>French</i> slave trade. He never did get anyone to talk to him about their ancestors but they sure as hell didn't build their estates from wine wealth. This was back in the 50s or 60s.
"So, is it worth opening a second bottle of wine or not?
David (Austin Tx)"
Always.
Always. Unless you're at work.
NTodd, Thread Führer
If I am at work, I am drinking tequila. But don't tell my boss, as alcohol is banned in the office now.
Always. Unless you're at work.
NTodd, Thread Führer,
Took the words directly from my mouth.
NTodd: Marcus Rediker? Book, 'The Slave Ship', reviewed (harrowingly, brilliantly) in the Nation this week (not up on line yet, alas)...
what is it with women showing so much cleavage and boob ???
Do you find breasts frightening?
How would we be judged?
Macchiavellie says that's how you should do it. Get it over with. In practice it turns out you always get stuck in that mode.
Whooops!
Gotta go.
bbs
Echidne: that's beautiful and quite striking, and could be from many traditions other than the European...
Obama is clearly doing something more than appealing to Reagan supporters.
"Clearly?" Another tag for "take my word for it, I've thought about this and reached the only possible conclusion and honest person could reach. Therefore, if you reach another conclusion, you're either a liar, stupid, or a stupid liar."
Yet again I note you haven't provided even one example to back up your opinion, whereas the Corrente writer provided a great many.
And this: "I dispute that Obama uses right wing talking points" is simply hilarious.
dude, you're ranting.
you're trying to force your opponent to deal with your strawman arguments through ridicule.
stop it.
And what if the US waged all of it's aggressions over a 5-10 yr period so that the Native American genocide, the invasions and occupations throughout our hemisphere, the Phillipines, Vietnam, Iraq, and the use of 2 atom bombs which in total slaughtered millions of people occurred in a very short period of time?
I forgot to include the victims of slavery.
So how does this all compare to what the Nazis did within a 5-10 yr period?
Begins to take on a new perspective doesn't it?
.
NTodd: Marcus Rediker? Book, 'The Slave Ship', reviewed (harrowingly, brilliantly) in the Nation this week (not up on line yet, alas)...
That sounds right.
4Legs, kittehs luvs furntyur.
Ruff on Riplee 2 amazng.
THanks- yes they love their furniture- and they even (gasp!!) sharpen their claws on it.
It's like a miracle.
eliash, u are preaching to the choir.
So, is it worth opening a second bottle of wine or not?
David (Austin Tx)"
I just poured a very nice John Jameson's over ice. I say pull that cork. Anything yummy? (I'm no wine expert - just curious)
But it's saturday night and nobody gives a shit and i'm outta here...
.
exactly ky. hence stalingrad = oil = doomed from the start.
even if they stopped at poland the economic blockade would have doomed them.
assuming an economic blockade.
Obama is clearly doing something more than appealing to Reagan supporters. If you don't want to understand what he is doing, fine. But that's not clarity or insight.
Oh, dear. JeffCo, you don't get it. What's wrong with you?
During that period, they had numerous elections and changes in governments and were considered a relatively stable democracy.
If you're really interested in studying this the example to use is Meiji through Imperial Japan until the American occupiers imposed a de-Nazifying constitution on they asses.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with everything at the correntewire link I posted. That was simply one of the very few hits I googled up when I looked for his exact quotes about the sixties and love-ins etc.
Very very few. Which points up to me how easy the corporate media have been on Obama - and I mean extremely easy. Some of the reporters traveling with him have visible stars in their eyes.
That link aside, I gots big problems with him on his policies, strategy and tactics. His worst aspect for me is his tendency to pre-compromise things before he gets to the compromising. I accept that ultimate governing success may require support from R's and I's, but the Democratic primaries are not the place to do that imo. That's for the general election, to get in, and after winning, to govern. Now is the time to be Democrats, not Smurfs, and I ain't at all impressed with his being the Democrat, Cameloteers notwithstanding.
-
stop it. theodoric
Feel free to make r-e's arguments for him, since I've yet to see him say anything other than endless versions of "I'm right and anyone who disagrees is a dipshit."
Shaw, if you're still here, my deep condolences.
When I was 20 a slightly older friend whom I admired enormously shot herself. To this day I still puzzle why her, not me. Finally I decided that the best I could do was emulate the good in her in my own small way.
The beauty that was her will live on in you and everyone who knew her. I hope in time that will bring comfort to you and all your family.
But it's saturday night and nobody gives a shit and i'm outta here...
Thank the Goddess.
THanks- yes they love their furniture- and they even (gasp!!) sharpen their claws on it.
It's like a miracle.
I noticed some claw marks in your drapes...
"Clearly?" Another tag for "take my word for it, I've thought about this and reached the only possible conclusion and honest person could reach. Therefore, if you reach another conclusion, you're either a liar, stupid, or a stupid liar."
I don't want to get in the middle of this stupid fight, but if you can't recognize that Obama is hitting some kind of deep seated, emotional chord out there, you are being willfully blind.
I've been wondering this week if John F. Kennedy was greeted with this much suspicion from old cynics like myself?
I just poured a very nice John Jameson's over ice. I say pull that cork. Anything yummy? (I'm no wine expert - just curious)
Jill
Oh yes, I keep between 15 to 20 different wines in the house at any given time.
Right now, I am finishing up my case of Humbug, which is a Christmas special wine, from Woot Cellars.
The question I have to answer is whether to open another bottle, or maybe the Root:1 which is a Chilean wine that I like.
Echidne: that's beautiful and quite striking, and could be from many traditions other than the European...
Yes, I was struck by that when I translated it. I carried the poem with me for a year or so.
Oh, dear. JeffCo, you don't get it. What's wrong with you? pie
Don't pay me no nevermind. These days I am much given to mindless rants to all my strawmen.
I noticed some claw marks in your drapes...
That would be Maddie.
Last night I actually threw something at her. She's getting better, but she still does it a little.
It's fucking annoying, especially since I DO see her scratching on the new kitty tree.
The question I have to answer is whether to open another bottle, or maybe the Root:1 which is a Chilean wine that I like.
I say go for it.
"If you're really interested in studying this the example to use is Meiji through Imperial Japan until the American occupiers imposed a de-Nazifying constitution on they asses."
Yes, but I don't believe Imperial Japan was ever a functioning democracy but I could be wrong. I guess my point goes back to the Bush doctrine that "democracies don't go to war", or "don't commit aggression", etc.
We are the example that destroys that bit of inanity, and that's the sad irony...
.
I don't want to get in the middle of this stupid fight, but if you can't recognize that Obama is hitting some kind of deep seated, emotional chord out there, you are being willfully blind.
That's not what r-e was arguing, nor what I was responding to.
I've yet to see him say anything other than endless versions of "I'm right and anyone who disagrees is a dipshit."
For which he owes me royalties.
I noticed some claw marks in your drapes...
That would be Maddie.
Last night I actually threw something at her. She's getting better, but she still does it a little.
At least you don't have doggie paths permanently marked in the wooden floors.
I don't want to get in the middle of this stupid fight, but if you
can't recognize that Obama is hitting some kind of deep seated,
emotional chord out there, you are being willfully blind.
We sure see him shooting for it, it's just that it strikes us as highly suspicious to have to do so much work considering W is a IX/XI-like godsend for a true opposition; your work is pretty much cut out for you and labeled with instructions. It's as if FDR is facing Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini -- so he starts singing about how important it is to smile at everyone you meet.
"Thank the Goddess."
Nice to know who my true friends are...
The question I have to answer is whether to open another bottle, or maybe the Root:1 which is a Chilean wine that I like.
So the question isn't whether or not to open a 2nd bottle, it's which bottle to open. That's different. My vote is for the Chilean, fwiw.
Nice to know who my true friends are...
They ain't here, that's for damned sure.
Nice to know who my true friends are..
Weren't you just leaving? Dude, you are mega boring.
I just fucking love how the the Beatles managed,one again, to disrupt the workaday London sensibility.
It's as if FDR is facing Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini -- so he starts singing about how important it is to smile at everyone you meet.
That's about my reaction, and I can't say I find that approach as inspirational as others seem to.
it's just that it strikes us as highly suspicious to have to do so much work considering W is a IX/XI-like godsend for a true opposition
Well, you're ignoring the deep identity branding the republican party has done.
For which he owes me royalties. NTodd
You've run circles round me logically!
I'm still trying to figure out when that optimistic, unified 1980s happened, because it sure isn't what I lived.
So the question isn't whether or not to open a 2nd bottle, it's which bottle to open
Tonight the witches were v. much enjoying some champagne SteveLG recommended to me that tastes like rocks & gravel. It went v. well w/ Chinese.
the problem is a lot people would vote for hitlojolini.
the problem is a lot people would vote for hitlojolini.
Right now, I am finishing up my case of Humbug, which is a Christmas special wine, from Woot Cellars.
We have some nice wine stores nearby and usually buy bottles based on what we're eating - Mr. Jill really only likes reds though. I utilize Chardonnay though for my hour plus calls with my sisters.
Yes, but I don't believe Imperial Japan was ever a functioning democracy but I could be wrong.
It was an Israeli-style democracy -- democracy for one race given the further stipulation that you do not question The Program for the region which God, with whom we enjoy a unique relationship, has delivered to us like a great contentious pizza -- but it is noted among Japan scholars that imperialism was enormously, sincerely popular and was almost totally seen as strengthening the nation, not just as theft. It's wrong to talk about a cabal of conspirators leading Japan astray; its actions were very much what the people wanted. Think about Imperialist America or Germany without the snag of WWI, everything always progress, expansion, another victory, no meanigful memory of defeat in anyone's lifetime.
You've run circles round me logically!
Of course. I am tall.
Tonight the witches were v. much enjoying some champagne SteveLG recommended to me that tastes like rocks & gravel. It went v. well w/ Chinese.
Eh, can't drink champagne at all anymore.
(I was just cruising and found this tidbit)
Ann and Thomas Friedman live in Bethesda, Maryland, a suburb of Washington, D.C. The July 2006 issue of Washingtonian reported that they own "a palatial 11,400-square-foot house, currently valued at $9.3 million, on a 7½-acre parcel just blocks from I-495 and Bethesda Country Club." They have two daughters: Orly Friedman (b. 1985), who attends Yale University; and Natalie Friedman (b. 198
, who attends Williams College. Both were born in Israel while Friedman served as a correspondent for The New York Times.[42] Friedman has dedicated many of his published works to his daughters.
11,400 square feet! Damn!
Nice to know who my true friends are...
"They ain't here, that's for damned sure."
It's even nicer to see that you wouldn't know sarcasm if it smacked you in the face!
.
So are they making him into something he is not? Projecting onto him what we need.
I wonder if we can make him into that projected image.
Can he be made willing to listen and follow through.
Can we follow through on the idea they are projecting onto him?
I mean it's a swell video and all but that is all it is.
I'm still trying to figure out when that optimistic, unified 1980s happened, because it sure isn't what I lived.
Me neither - must have been when Timmeh decided to paint all the stated red. Look - they're all the same! Everyone loves Ronnie!
I just fucking love how the the Beatles
I still love that long hair.And, the young George Harrison, had he played his cards right . . . .
Goddess, I am old.
Tonight the witches were v. much enjoying some champagne SteveLG recommended to me that tastes like rocks & gravel. It went v. well w/ Chinese.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Foreau "Clos Naudin" Sparkling Vouvray, for the record.
I had beer tonight... wine tomorrow. Maybe Chablis.
11,400 square feet! Damn!
I know I'm not of the upper classes when my first reaction to news like these is not to want to clean that much.
I've been wondering this week if John F. Kennedy was greeted with this much suspicion from old cynics like myself?
I'm not sure the two can be compared much at all. Different time. Different place. Different political backgrounds.
11,400 square feet! Damn!
You should see his mustache waxing studio.
brilliant fucking video.
Goddess, I am old.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Nah. we're all here with ya.
I know I'm not of the upper classes when my first reaction to news like these is not to want to clean that much.
Friedman has maids.
And he needs that much space to throw his cocktail weenie parties.
So the question isn't whether or not to open a 2nd bottle, it's which bottle to open. That's different. My vote is for the Chilean, fwiw.
TheOtherWA
Well, I waffled a bit on whether or not I wanted a second bottle. Even if I don't finish it tonight, with the "Big Game" tomorrow, I will be consumed.
At that point, it was merely down to choosing which poison I wanted.
I went with the Root:1
I wonder if we can make him into that projected image.
No. He is who he is or who he has decided to be.
I know, fourlegs. But I don't want to have strangers in the house, even to clean for me.
this is really cheesy.
I wonder if we can make him into that projected image.
Can he be made willing to listen and follow through.
Can we follow through on the idea they are projecting onto him?
These are very good questions, pigboy.
I say... listen to his wife. If the things she says are any indication (maybe they are, and maybe they aren't) then we'll be headed in the right direction with him.
Casa DWD is a decent house (all I really want and need and probably more than I need when the boys leave) and it is 2400 sq ft. We had twenty two over for Thanksgiving: we managed.
I know I'm not of the upper classes when my first reaction to news like these is not to want to clean that much.
Hecate:
Though we are not now that strength
That once mov'd Earth and Heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, yet strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield.
Tennyson, from 'Ulysses'
I'm not sure the two can be compared much at all. Different time. Different place. Different political backgrounds.
Of course.
I'm not suggesting the men themselves are at all comparable.
I'm suggesting the phenomenon might be similar, and wondering how old farts reacted to JFK's "ask not what your country can do for you" rhetoric.
If clearly inspired a whole generation of young americans into public service. But I'll bet all the old fogeys were rolling their eyes and muttering.
Foreau "Clos Naudin" Sparkling Vouvray,
And v. nice it was, too.
I know, fourlegs. But I don't want to have strangers in the house, even to clean for me.
Me either.
Though I'll bet the Friedman's butler and housekeeper are live-ins.
But I'll bet all the old fogeys were rolling their eyes and muttering.
Get off my lawn (which actually would be true given that this is the time when the footprints become permanent).
Think about Imperialist America or Germany without the snag of WWI, everything always progress, expansion, another victory, no meanigful memory of defeat in anyone's lifetime.
But just as the "Vietnam Syndrome" led us to war with Iraq to show that we were once again NOT the impotent power the Doves made us then, will we now have the "Iraq Syndrome" to dispel with another war of aggression in 20yrs, especially if Prez Clinton or Obama is perceived to have "lost" Iraq?
.
Tennyson, from 'Ulysses'
Damn, I love that. There's so much amazing poetry.
I wonder if we can make him into that projected image.
No. He is who he is or who he has decided to be.
pie | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 10:52 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Thom Hartmann always says that Roosavelt was not the person that was elected he changed with the times and the will of the people. He said that Roosevelt said something like ,'those are wonderful progessive ideas but you will have to make me do them'. I wonder if he will be a leader of that mold rather than the mold of a corporate lacky.
Get off my lawn (which actually would be true given that this is the time when the footprints become permanent).
Exactly.
It's even nicer to see that you wouldn't know sarcasm if it smacked you in the face!
You are pretty fucking stupid.
Though I'll bet the Friedman's butler and housekeeper are live-ins.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
I am willing to bet that they have more than two on their staff. Probably groundskeepers, a cook or two, housekeeper, butler, secretary. . . .
Goddess, I am old.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
My favorite old B&W TV clip is still, and will probabl;y always be, the Beatles opening song on Ed Sullivan, All My Lovin'
Scoot over, Grannie...
I'm still trying to figure out when that optimistic, unified 1980s happened, because it sure isn't what I lived.
sister of ye
I thought the 1980s sucked.
I really don't care whether the next Pres asserts power through a deep understanding borne of experience of how to wield power or by dint of a charismatic personality so powerful it bends the will of weaker pols. All I care is that whichever one it is grasps that she or he take a fucking high pressure hose to the Executive branch and clean out every goddam Cheney apparatchik and does what it takes to pressure a lily-livered Democratic Congress to finally do what's right by us the citizens even though they will be attacked by the GOP and subject to endless media rants.
That's all I'm asking - is that so much?
DWD, probably so.
No two people, or four people, need a home that large.
It's obscene.
I'm suggesting the phenomenon might be similar, and wondering how old farts reacted to JFK's "ask not what your country can do for you" rhetoric.
Torch passing and all that? Sure. Oh, and he was Catlick, so he got it from that side, too. I suspect the old folks were more skeptical of that than the younger types, though I have no data to back that up.
I'm suggesting the phenomenon might be similar, and wondering how old farts reacted to JFK's "ask not what your country can do for you" rhetoric.
I say... listen to his wife. If the things she says are any indication (maybe they are, and maybe they aren't) then we'll be headed in the right direction with him.
SteveLG | 02.02.08 - 10:53 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
We'll have to see if he gets in and then see what happens. One thing for sure this corporate media will attack who ever gets into office making our support and his desire to follow through very important.
That's all I'm asking - is that so much?
Nope.
Elias,
The reason that no one is answering is that you are reasoning like a child. You think you are following logic when you are taking different circumstances and drawing the wrong conclusions from mixed data and then asking people what they think. What do we think?
That your reasoning is faulty. Your powers of reasoning are minimal and that conclusions are bullshit.
Night.
And v. nice it was, too.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
I appreciate that you take my recommendations and am glad that they often seem to work out well for you.
Were you around late last night when I mentioned that I sold a couple of cases of wine to a guy who turned out to be Al and Tipper Gore's "residence manager," who was stocking their Arlington pantry?
Come, my friends,
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
Read the whole thing:
http://quotations.about.com/cs/p...s/a/
Ulysses.htm
That's all I'm asking - is that so much?
I hope not. But it probably is unless someone loses their polite faces soon.
I've been wondering this week if John F. Kennedy was greeted with this much suspicion from old cynics like myself?
He was greeted with so much suspicion, that his camp felt the overriding need to take on LBJ as his VP.
The 1960 Kennedy campaign is fascinating. There is a somewhat famous picture of the two young Kennedy brothers in their white shirts and blacks ties, with their heads down, taking a breather, campaigning in West Virginia.
yeah interesting that some gangsta thug endorses oreobama.
Torch passing and all that? Sure. Oh, and he was Catlick, so he got it from that side, too. I suspect the old folks were more skeptical of that than the younger types, though I have no data to back that up.
I just don't know.
a trip to Trader Joes allows for opening bottle #3 without remorse. viva la $3 chuck!
That's all I'm asking - is that so much?
Yes. The Harkonnen stench will take more than a good hosing.
Well, my dad wasn't impressed with John Kennedy. You could say it related to him being an "old fart" to the extent that he knew Joe Kennedy's record as a crook and a fascist supporter, and had doubts about the scion of the old man's political machine.
Kennedy may have inspired youth into public service, but it wouldn't have done anything if society wasn't ready for the message. 15 years later Carter asked for people to consider the common good and got laughed at.
One indicator about Obama and Clinton will be how they vote on FISA on Monday and will they support a Dodd filabuster if one takes place.
Reason #69832 why I love New York:
The guy on the corner of 14th and University shouting "Suck my black dick!" at each and every passerby.
There is a somewhat famous picture of the two young Kennedy brothers in their white shirts and blacks ties, with their heads down, taking a breather, campaigning in West Virginia.
Yes, that one's kinda iconic.
The guy on the corner of 14th and University shouting "Suck my black dick!" at each and every passerby.
So, did you?
Well, my dad wasn't impressed with John Kennedy.
The culture ate him up. They lurved them some "Camelot", even though the election was close as could be.
Can I just say that my mother is an idiot.?
oh, and BTW:
Two thumbs up for "Juno".
obama is on C span right now. live, a rally. this guy rocks.
I've been wondering this week if John F. Kennedy was greeted with this much suspicion from old cynics like myself?
The problem today, is the instantaneous nature of the news cycle. I suspect that Kennedy made some speeches and said somethings that evoked the same reaction in people that some of Obama's speeches do today. Only those reactions were generally limited to the people in the venue, then.
Obama's easy to support. If I go with my head, it's Obama. Hillary has too much baggage to win the general. Period. (And her biggest bag is Bill. Any idea who he's been fucking since 2000? Me neither, but if Hillary wins the nomination, we'll know soon enough.)
And if I go with my heart, it's Obama. See video.
Reason #69832 why I love New York:
The guy on the corner of 14th and University shouting "Suck my black dick!" at each and every passerby.
Excellent.
So, did you?
I told him that while I appreciated the offer, it was a little too chilly out.
Obama over any repuke any day.
Again.
I'm suggesting the phenomenon might be similar, and wondering how old farts reacted to JFK's "ask not what your country can do for you" rhetoric.
Obama can be inspirational. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a good leader, only a good talker.
We don't have much to go on. Only one way to find out, but I'm not convinced he's ready.
The guy on the corner of 14th and University shouting "Suck my black dick!" at each and every passerby.
You gotta respect someone who'll straight out ask for what he wants.
They lurved them some "Camelot"
A mythical thing pretty much manufactured after his death...
You gotta respect someone who'll straight out ask for what he wants.
word.
I prefer Obama over Hillary at this point because I think Hillary will excite the wingnuts to get out and vote for their dinosaurs.
Additionally, Obama has a better chance of winning the South. Repukes are only able to control the South's electoral votes because of voter suppression. There aren't enough fat sheriffs and white sheeted hoodlums in the world to keep black Americans voting for a black President.
I see our sociopathic troll is here.
With all his racist ramblings.
"That your reasoning is faulty. Your powers of reasoning are minimal and that conclusions are bullshit. "
Then, by all means, REPUTE what I said!
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
!
He was greeted with so much suspicion, that his camp felt the overriding need to take on LBJ as his VP.
The 1960 Kennedy campaign is fascinating. There is a somewhat famous picture of the two young Kennedy brothers in their white shirts and blacks ties, with their heads down, taking a breather, campaigning in West Virginia.
Yep.
When are the primaries over in terms of debating Clinton vs. Obama?
Then, by all means, REPUTE what I said!
Oh, you want an argument. Arguments are down the hall on the left.
Any idea who he's been fucking since 2000?
I don't give a fuck.
I prefer Obama over Hillary at this point because I think Hillary will excite the wingnuts to get out and vote for their dinosaurs.
Additionally, Obama has a better chance of winning the South. Repukes are only able to control the South's electoral votes because of voter suppression. There aren't enough fat sheriffs and white sheeted hoodlums in the world to keep black Americans voting for a black President.
Or the mexicans and other latins.
The GOP has fucked them selves silly over that issue.
There aren't enough fat sheriffs and white sheeted hoodlums in the world to keep black Americans voting for a black President.
George Johnston
This is stated facetiously, but I think it's absolutely true.
Wasn't Elias leaving like an hour ago or something?
obama is on C span right now. live, a rally. this guy rocks.
mrs. ibrahim al-jafaari
got March of the Penguins starting now as well - what to watch, what to watch?
When are the primaries over in terms of debating Clinton vs. Obama?
I think it may go down to the wire.
Or maybe not.
I'm fairly certain that Obama will win Texas easily (in the primary)
I dunno if JFK really said this, but knowing of that powerful clan, mebbe so.
After the '60 squeaker, JFK supoosedly said that his dad was such a tightwad, that he would only buy enough influence to get JFK the Oval Office, and not a vote more.
"I'm suggesting the phenomenon might be similar, and wondering how old farts reacted to JFK's "ask not what your country can do for you" rhetoric."
Does this mean that we'll be tortured with endless replays of Beyonce singing,
"Happy Birthday Mister President"?
>
Can I just say that my mother is an idiot.?
Uh oh. What'd she do? If you don't mind my asking....
I hope not. But it probably is unless someone loses their polite faces soon.
I acknowledge that my bias here is my belief that the GOP is so fucking evil it has corrupted most of the bureacracy and rendered many of the Congressional Dems little more than pusillanimous pencil pushers so that the only route to achieving the goals so many of us ache for is by definition a confrontational one. At the very least I want an admission that the two sides are *not* coming from different but equally vaild positions. That the GOP treats 'compromise' as a sure sign of weakness and goes for the jugular every single goddam time. That Chimpy's standard of behavior has been "Do what I want and fuck you."
I don't want them to follow his example. I want them to scream from the rooftops that the Bush administration and every one of its goddam bootlicking toady cultists and accomodationists are fucking assholes and will henceforth be left out of any political process. And have the spine and the authority to make it stick.
My admitted bias is that anything less and the next Pres is toast.
When are the primaries over in terms of debating Clinton vs. Obama?
Generally, the answer would be: After Feb. 5th, but the Chesapeake primary on Feb. 12th may actually count this time. I put my Hillary sign in my yard today.
RFK and JFK
http://thumbsnap.com/v/2rpFrs4c.jpg
I dunno if JFK really said this, but knowing of that powerful clan, mebbe so.
After the '60 squeaker, JFK supoosedly said that his dad was such a tightwad, that he would only buy enough influence to get JFK the Oval Office, and not a vote more.
Old Joe was a corrupt bastard, true enough.
But one thing you have to respect about the family, is that they really do believe in public service.
When are the primaries over in terms of debating Clinton vs. Obama?
Echidne
My predictions are notoriously bad, but I imagine things will be more muddled on Wednesday morning, rather than less.
Does this mean that we'll be tortured with endless replays of Beyonce singing, "Happy Birthday Mister President"?
Noooooooooo!!!!
besides Iraq, the concept that Obama could lead an imprtessive tidal wave of NEW voters to vote D is what excites me.
down ticket races will only benefit, and more and better Democrats is what's needed right now.
two more years of House Majority Leader Boehner and Senate Majority Leader McConnell is not very appealing to me, personally.
Reason #69832 why I love New York:
The guy on the corner of 14th and University shouting "Suck my black dick!" at each and every passerby.
Excellent.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
best town in North America, that's for sure...
Wasn't Elias leaving like an hour ago or something?
Yes, but he's in desperate need of friends, so he sticks around here screaming, ""Suck my black dick!"
With all his racist ramblings.
Terry C - HATES Republicans | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 11:05 pm | #
What's so racist about pointing out the Obama is dangerously unqualified to be President.
Hell, he's dangerously unqualified to be my busboy.
Can I just say that my mother is an idiot.?
Uh oh. What'd she do? If you don't mind my asking....
I did nothing!
What happened. Did the nut house just let out?
I'm fairly certain that Obama will win Texas easily (in the primary)
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
Hillary is polling 7 to 10 points higher than Barack right now.
The guy on the corner of 14th and University shouting "Suck my black dick!" at each and every passerby.
They took away his name, and gave him a number. And a black dick...
Obviously a lost and disoriented Secret Agent shouting the only code words he can remember. Is 14th and U near the water? Can the sub get close enough?
I don't want them to follow his example. I want them to scream from the rooftops that the Bush administration and every one of its goddam bootlicking toady cultists and accomodationists are fucking assholes and will henceforth be left out of any political process. And have the spine and the authority to make it stick.
[hands JeffCO a towel and a piece of cake]
Kennedy may have inspired youth into public service, but it wouldn't have done anything if society wasn't ready for the message.
They're even more ready now. But Obama isn't JFK. And JFK had his problems like every oter politician. I would have liked to see the rest of his presidency.
Obama isn't going to save us, so the starry-eyed optimism is crap. And it certainly muddies the waters.
Whatever. I don't get to decide anyway.
Good night.
Uh oh. What'd she do? If you don't mind my asking....
Oh, she just emails me nonsense.
Drives me crazy.
With annoying little cutsie pie graphics everywhere.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE STOP!!
I think Hillary will excite the wingnuts to get out and vote for their dinosaurs.
The wingers don't like any of the dinosaurs running.
And there is no one who will keep this WOMAN from voting.
I don't give a fuck.
Well shit, Terry, me neither. But it's Saturday night, and you and I are typing on the internets about politics. WE are not the kind of people deciding this election.
If Hillary wins the nomination, the GOP will make it Monica Lewinsky, 24-7. Blue dress. She stood by him. BLowjobs. Etc. That's just a fact. I don't care how qualified Hillary is. (And she is.) There is just no fucking way she can win.
My admitted bias is that anything less and the next Pres is toast.
I agree, and I'm very nice and non-confontational. "Anything less" will just fill the government money boxes for the next cycle of Repub raiding.
I don't want them to follow his example. I want them to scream from the rooftops that the Bush administration and every one of its goddam bootlicking toady cultists and accomodationists are fucking assholes and will henceforth be left out of any political process. And have the spine and the authority to make it stick.
I want the next president to shoot those assholes into the sun.
It's the only way to be sure.
(holds hand out to Watertiger for slice of cake)
got March of the Penguins starting now as well - what to watch, what to watch?
go with the penguins, he just concluded with the boffo ending.
There is just no fucking way she can win.
Bull.
Fucking.
Shit.
Since when did they start having busboys at McDonalds?
15 years later Carter asked for people to consider the common good and got laughed at.
To be fair, he *did* wear those sweaters made in malaisia.
If Hillary wins the nomination, the GOP will make it Monica Lewinsky, 24-7. Blue dress. She stood by him.
yeah, but if we just nominate a war hero and a former DA and a nice guy, they'll leave him alone. Oh, wait, that was last election and they fucking crucified the guy and he wasn't ready to handle it.
the concept that Obama could lead an imprtessive tidal wave of NEW voters to vote D is what excites me.
I'd be more confident of this if Obama weren't playing his "maybe my supporters will vote for Clinton, maybe not" game. Doesn't make it sound like he's much interested in building the party.
"Wasn't Elias leaving like an hour ago or something?
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator"
No, the correct thing to say would be something like, "Elias, please don't go, stay and discuss, even though we detest you, we respect your opinion."
Now THAT would be the way to get rid of me...
And there is no one who will keep this WOMAN from voting.
Terry C - HATES Republicans | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 11:11 pm | #
too bad. Women haven't exactly shown the most brilliant judgemend when it comes to picking presidents.
got March of the Penguins starting now as well - what to watch, what to watch?
a dingo ate the baby
Torchwood on BBC America.
pud, you ARE a racist.'
Why don't you mosey on over to Stormfront with the rest of the haters and leave the adults alone?
I did nothing!
Sorry! not U Mom.
My, ahem, other mom.
What's so racist about pointing out the Obama is dangerously unqualified to be President.
He's perfectly qualified. And you're a racist, as you've shown again and again. So you're clearly just making up justifications for your racist inability to vote for a qualified black man.
I loved JFK's Twain-like take on Washington, DC.
"It is a city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm."
With annoying little cutsie pie graphics everywhere.
I have a cousin that sends me that stuff too. Annoying but harmless. I just delete them.
The lying political emails get a "reply to all" response with the facts. Most people stopped sending me those. Can't imagine why.
too bad. Women haven't exactly shown the most brilliant judgemend when it comes to picking presidents.
Too fucking bad for people like you.
We have the right to vote.
Okeedoke, Ntodd. Can't argue with that logic.
Meanwhile, my Republican friends are considering voting for Obama.
"Wasn't Elias leaving like an hour ago or something?
Yes, but he's in desperate need of friends, so he sticks around here screaming, ""Suck my black dick!"
NTodd, Thread Führer"
Oh this is the best one so far! Without proper context, this could look really ugly! Thank God Atrios is pretty lax on those archives of late...
)))
(holds hand out to Watertiger for slice of cake)
[cuts generous slice of cake for 4LG]
Holy crap.
Is that SPike?
[hands JeffCO a towel and a piece of cake] watertiger
Thanks! I also very much want to see the next Pres address the GOP's concerns over his or her being unfair to them by stating very succinctly, "Suck my black dick!"
I just think I would enjoy it more if Hillary says it.
We have the right to vote.
Terry C - HATES Republicans | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 11:14 pm | #
They could give monkey's the rigth to vote. It doesn't mean its a good idea.
They could give monkey's the rigth to vote
Yeah, you DO have the right, don't you?
And there is no one who will keep this WOMAN from voting.
Last week my friend R. flew down to Atlanta to take her grandma out for her 87th birthday. Her grandma asked R who she was voting for. R. said something to the effect of, "let's not talk politics because we always disagree." Grandma says, "Not this time. I'm fixing to die soon, and I'm going to see me a woman in the WH." Lotta women who are definitely not going to be kept from voting this time.
judgemend?
what the fuck is that, some robe tailoring business?
To be fair, he *did* wear those sweaters made in malaisia.
[golf clap on pun]
All made from bunny hair.
My admitted bias is that anything less and the next Pres is toast.
JeffCO
Burn their villages and salt their fields, otherwise they'll be back.
sister of ye
I am impressed by the GOTV effort the Obama camp have put up so far. as to party building, I'm not sure how a corporate shill who hires union busters will expand the party in a way most of us would find satisfying.
They could give monkey's the rigth to vote. It doesn't mean its a good idea.
You're right. We should probably have a spelling test instead.
I don't want them to follow his example. I want them to scream from the rooftops that the Bush administration and every one of its goddam bootlicking toady cultists and accomodationists are fucking assholes and will henceforth be left out of any political process. And have the spine and the authority to make it stick.
I want the next president to shoot those assholes into the sun.
It's the only way to be sure.
(holds hand out to Watertiger for slice of cake)
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
4LG, any space left on that rocket you built? 'cause I got some folks I want to join the ride...
Meanwhile, my Republican friends are considering voting for Obama.
He's already converted some of my republican friends.
But not a one of them would vote for Hillary. The hatred there is just crazy and irrational.
I'm back.
By the way, Elias:
FOAD!
Thank you!
I just think I would enjoy it more if Hillary says it.
But Hillary has CANKLES!!!
Okeedoke, Ntodd. Can't argue with that logic.
Given that you provided no logic, I felt no compulsion to do so.
Meanwhile, my Republican friends are considering voting for Obama.
Good for them.
And you're a racist, as you've shown again and again. So you're clearly just making up justifications for your racist inability to vote for a qualified black man.
NTodd, Thread Führer
Well, in his world, African-Americans and women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Maybe someone needs to build him a Wayback Machine.
Sorry, shaw.
I have some experience with this.
The hardest but best thing is to not blame yourself.
[cuts generous slice of cake for 4LG]
Woo hoo!!
They could give monkey's the rigth to vote. It doesn't mean its a good idea.
You're right. We should probably have a spelling test instead.
Echidne
and in his case, a sanity test.
"aangus: acute sinusitis"
Identity problems?
.
They could give monkey's the rigth to vote. It doesn't mean its a good idea.
Oddly, humans are a bit different than monkeys, so your analogy seems as inapt as one comparing, say...apples to oranges.
I am impressed by the GOTV effort the Obama camp have put up so far.
Signage all over town here that bear Obama's likeness and just say: VOTE.
And her biggest bag is Bill
That's why he's still overwhelmingly popular and beloved by most of the public. I swear it cracks me up every time I hear one of these pundits solemnly intoning that Hillary better shut Bill up if she knows what's good for her. The same pundits of course that eagerly lap up every drop of W's piss and fight for the privilege to get to shake the dewy excess from his dick.
got March of the Penguins starting now as well - what to watch, what to watch?
go with the penguins, he just concluded with the boffo ending.
mrs. ibrahim al-jafaari
penguins are good so far - mostly they walk. occasionally they slide, but mostly, walk. beautiful scenery, a bit cold for my liking though -
My big concern throughout this dem primary is who the republicans want to win the dem nomination.
You're right. We should probably have a spelling test instead
I love you.
There aren't enough fat sheriffs and white sheeted hoodlums in the world to keep black Americans voting for a black President.
This statement makes me sad on many levels.
One of them is that you're making it sound like black people would vote for anybody just because they're black.
Untrue.
trust me, if there's one subject pud actually knows about it is monkeys.
My big concern throughout this dem primary is who the republicans want to win the dem nomination.
That's a pretty silly thing to be focusing on.
They're wrong about everything.
You're right. We should probably have a spelling test instead.
Echidne
Sawbuck sez he don't get it...
I am impressed by the GOTV effort the Obama camp have put up so far.
Signage all over town here that bear Obama's likeness and just say: VOTE.
Vote? Fuck that, voting never works.
As we all did, Hillary
If Hillary wins the nomination, the GOP will make it Monica Lewinsky, 24-7. Blue dress. She stood by him. BLowjobs. Etc. That's just a fact. I don't care how qualified Hillary is. (And she is.) There is just no fucking way she can win.
That's silly. Why give in to your fear of the opposition?
This statement makes me sad on many levels.
One of them is that you're making it sound like black people would vote for anybody just because they're black.
Untrue.
I think that's untrue as well, but I do think they will turn out for Obama.
trust me, if there's one subject pud actually knows about it is monkeys.
fwapfwapfwapfwapfwap...
There aren't enough fat sheriffs and white sheeted hoodlums in the world
A fact that drives the mouthbreathers even more crazy than they already are.
Obama over any repuke any day.
left field, 99.9% dirty hippie
I'm down with that.
Any pain to any Puke anytime anywhere. It's 30°F and clear in Fallujah.
-
Haven't you always wanted a monKEY?
If super Tuesday doesn't clearly show one leading candidate, the WA caucus on Sat the 9th might actually matter. I intend to go, but don't know who I'll support. It was going to be Edwards, but that didn't pan out.
I would love to see the contrast between Obama and old guy McLumpyhaid.
There is just no fucking way she can win.
So you have psychic powers.
If Hillary wins the nomination, the GOP will make it Monica Lewinsky, 24-7. Blue dress. She stood by him. BLowjobs. Etc. That's just a fact. I don't care how qualified Hillary is. (And she is.) There is just no fucking way she can win.
That's silly. Why give in to your fear of the opposition?
The Republicans will do this to any candidate. If they have nothing real they will manufacture something, and we will all be fed up with the shit soon enough in any case.
Identity problems?
I am who I am!
"Who are you?"
"My big concern throughout this dem primary is who the republicans want to win the dem nomination.
That's a pretty silly thing to be focusing on.
They're wrong about everything.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?"
That was snark. I should used tags. Anyway some who are here right now use that argument as a reason for voting for their favorite candidate.
if there's one subject pud actually knows about it is monkeys
And? Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
Oh they'll come out for Obama but that statement made it seem like they'd come out for Alan Keyes too.
Damn, I meant:
80s Hillary.
You have to remember, Loverboy was big back then.
Haven't you always wanted a monKEY?
NTodd, Thread Führer
We had Bush for seven years.
One of them is that you're making it sound like black people would vote for anybody just because they're black.
Untrue.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants
What I heard in that statement was that those who commonly suppress the black vote and have done so for years will be on notice that this time they don't get away with it. And that the whole world will be watching.
Given that you provided no logic, I felt no compulsion to do so.
NTodd,
Here's the logic: Americans did not particularly enjoy blowjobintheovaloffice-gate. If you give the GOP a chance to take us back there again, they will take it. FUrthermore, Hillary has extremely high negatives because many people just don't seem to like her. Therefore, through no fault of her own, Hillary is at a disadvantage in the general.
I do like Hillary. But on the other hand, I have a candidate who has nearly the same positions as Hillary, more credibility on the war, and has demonstrated the ability to attract independents and republicans--which (logically!) means he stands a better chance in the general.
So, now's your chance to post a reply other than "Bull fucking shit" and "nanny nanny boo boo."
Oh they'll come out for Obama but that statement made it seem like they'd come out for Alan Keyes too.
Hell, no one will come out for Keyes, not even crazy people.
"My big concern throughout this dem primary is who the republicans want to win the dem nomination."
I think they're licking their chops at both possibilities...I mean, take a step back for a moment and see the forest for the trees...
It's a "Clinton" and "a black guy".
And this is still the United States of America and it's only been 20yrs since Willie Horton and it's only been 10 since, "I did not have sexual relations...", and it's only been 4 since the Swift Boat campaign, get the picture?
.
Fuck that, voting never works.
NTodd, Thread Führer |
Strange women lying in ponds is no way to form a system of governemnt
Haven't you always wanted a monKEY?
But not a real green monkey, that's cruel.
Oh they'll come out for Obama but that statement made it seem like they'd come out for Alan Keyes too.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants
Alan Keyes is no more black than Michelle Malkin is Asian.
Didn't you get the memo?
JeffCO owes me yet another beer.
the concept that Obama could lead an imprtessive tidal wave of NEW voters to vote D is what excites me.
To vote for him, yes. To vote for any other Democrats? He isn't pushing that.
for me, I want to be excited about the candidate from our side, rather than having to hold my nose while I fill in the oval on the ballot.
I can understand why folks might support a female candidate, and if it was anyone besides HRC I would be just as excited.
get the picture?
.
Elias |
I thought you were leaving.
They could give monkey's the rigth to vote. It doesn't mean its a good idea.
Oddly, humans are a bit different than monkeys, so your analogy seems as inapt as one comparing, say...apples to oranges.
NTodd, Thread Führer
didn't monkeys beat a bunch of Harvard students in some repetitive selection test lately? or did I dream it?
/terry jones as mary magdelene
- Meanwhile, my Republican friends are considering voting for Obama.
- Good for them.
No, actually, good for US. (If we nominate Obama.)
:
80s Hillary.
I really love how she's gotten BETTER looking with age. She's a lot more comfortable in her own skin now, and it shows.
Obama has the guts and smarts and passion and he very well can rise to greatness in office. Others have done this before him, as was pointed out upthread.
With Hillary it's the same old/same old. Boring, uninspiring. If the folks here don't think that a leader who inspires people to dream, who inspires people to be their best, is not important, then that's just sad.
Hillary can't win against McCain because the kids will stay home on voting day, for one thing. This country is in such a sinkhole we need a shakeup.
Fuck. Nobody could be stupider or more amoral than Bush. Obama is not that much of a risk. Let's have a little faith in something not readily apparent, how about it.
They're wrong about everything.
If we can't trust Bill and Newt and Rush and Pat and Trent and Chris and Tim and George and Karl and all their pals to tell us whom we should run against them, who can we trut?
I think they're licking their chops at both possibilities...I mean, take a step back for a moment and see the forest for the trees...
Oh, give me a fucking break.
They're about to nominate a candidate who has voluntarily and enthusiastically hung the current hated president around his neck like a rotting chicken.
All we have to do is point out that the chicken, is indeed, rotting. And that old man McLumpyhaid likes the stench.
hardy | 02.02.08 - 11:28 pm
Another psychic?
SHOCK THE MONKEY
JeffCO owes me yet another beer.
Ok, but not a real green beer; that's cruel.
No matter what happens in Washington, and more importantly no matter how bad things get for us out here in the hinterlands, Friedman wins. Unless something fundamentally changes about the political-corporate-military-media complex...
I've had my reservations about Clinton which I've stated in the past, Mark Penn being one of them.
Obama is attracting crowds - to support him. Which is the nature of campaigning. But he's also playing this coy little game, making noises that if he's not the nominee, he'll take his ball and go home. If that turns out to be so, there go those voters who were pulled in by his charisma alone.
I understand Clinton has quite a GOTV effort herself, which should hopefully also benefit other Dems.
To vote for him, yes. To vote for any other Democrats? He isn't pushing that.
your not just wrong, you are really really wrong. but keep listening to what Tweety and Co. tells ya, it's a free country.
get the picture?
Weren't you leaving?
80s Hillary.
I really love how she's gotten BETTER looking with age. She's a lot more comfortable in her own skin now, and it shows.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
She's aged well.
Ok, but not a real green beer; that's cruel.
just make sure it's prewrapped.
NTODD Yerup
"So, now's your chance to post a reply other than "Bull fucking shit" and "nanny nanny boo boo.""
I think he prefers "nanny nanny I'm an arrogant, elitist prick", but I could be wrong...
.
As for my rocket to the sun, I'm still working on a fleet.
Johnny A-List,
Take a breath. Wipe the dew outa your eyes.
There. OK.
The party of white can't wait to get their hands on a black dem nominee for president.
Obama is a criminal.
Drudge has had a picture of Hillary in a 'Hiel Hitler" pose up on his front page for 12 hours. Gotta love them apples. The man is not subtle but he gets the job done.
Voting for Hillary because she's a woman is fucking idiotic. Voting for Obama because he's black is fucking idiotic. Get real. Vote for the person, not the color or the gender, for chrissake. We're in too much trouble to get all politically correct -- we're long past that point.
Ari Fleischman's PAC has a quarter of a billion dollars that they will spend to smear whoever gets nominated.
They haven't spent any of it yet.
HRC or Obama is going to get the business.
Trust me.
It's only between two candidates in the Democratic nominee process.
Whoever it is, just win in November, goddamn it.
8 years of Rethug Presidential crap is quite plenty, thank you.
He might drop the "nanny nanny" at times...
Johnny A-List | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 11:25 pm
Horseshit.
-
With Hillary it's the same old/same old. Boring, uninspiring
She inspires the hell out of me. And, she does more than just "inspire." We need someone who can clean up a mess, not just "inspire."
Ari Fleishman?
pud and auggie = between the two of them they don't have the IQ of a hamster.
is everyone ecited about the ass whooping the NE Patriots will be handing out to the NY Midgets Sunday night?
Ari Fleischman's PAC has a quarter of a billion dollars that they will spend to smear whoever gets nominated.
They haven't spent any of it yet.
HRC or Obama is going to get the business.
Trust me.
He's one of the first ones on the rocket.
I hate that smarmy fucker.
Here's the logic: Americans did not particularly enjoy blowjobintheovaloffice-gate.
They disliked the media and the Republicans. The popularity of the Clintons wasn't particularly negatively affected.
I thought you were leaving.
Terry C - HATES Republicans
I thought you had a cogent thought.
Once.
?
So, now's your chance to post a reply other than "Bull fucking shit" and "nanny nanny boo boo."
1) Hillary is her own person. She is not Bill's BJ.
2) Hillary is within a few points of the prospective GOP nominee.
3) It's fucking February, and electability is a bogus criterion, as illustrated by one John Kerry.
So. Bull. Fucking. Shit.
She can lose, of course, but it is no more guaranteed than her win, or Obama's win or loss.
Obama's speech was good now cspan is running Hillary.
Drives me nuts when she comes and and walks around and randomly points at someone in the crowd like she just spotted her best friend in a sea of thousands.
With Hillary it's the same old/same old. Boring, uninspiring
She inspires the hell out of me. And, she does more than just "inspire." We need someone who can clean up a mess, not just "inspire."
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Really. I don't know what the hell THAT guy is watching and/or listening to.
Strange women lying in ponds is no way to form a system of governemnt
olexicon,
supreme executive power is derived from a mandate of the masses, not some vestigial aquatic ceremony!
Americans did not particularly enjoy blowjobintheovaloffice-gate. If you give the GOP a chance to take us back there again, they will take it.
Damn right they didn't. They wanted the media and the Reps to STFU, but they wouldn't. Remember, Bush didn't actually WIN in '00, Gore did. I think you have to credit that at least in part to the bad taste that crap left in the electorate's collective mouth. The GOP always plays dirty, no matter who they're up against. Nothing new there.
McCain will be the Republican nominee and his entire campaign will be VICTORY IN IRAQ... I TOLD YOU ALL THE SURGE WOULD WORK. From now to November.
I think Senator Obama is in a better position to put this lie to rest once and for all than Senator Clinton, who will have to temporize and explain her previous positions away, rather like Senator Kerry.
Damn it, I can't watch TV and follow the thread!
I love watching all the shithead women trash Obama. It is like watching your two worst enemies beat the shit out of each other.
Voting for Hillary because she's a woman is fucking idiotic
I'm voting for Hillary in large part because she's a woman. We'll be "past that point" when we've had a few women presidents. Not until. I've been living all my life in America w/ a vagina and I assure you, we are not "past that point." You might consider not calling the people you're courting idiots. Just saying.
I thought you were leaving.
Terry C - HATES Republicans
I thought you had a cogent thought.
Once.
GO the fuck away. Moron.
I thought you had a cogent thought.
Once.
?
Elias
Yeah, yeah.....bye!
so, pud is afraid of black men and white women, fucking pansy ass bitch
obama is the kinda guy ya wanna have a beer with.
It is like watching your two worst enemies beat the shit out of each other.
You must be one LONELY guy.
What, with all that hate in you.
The man is not subtle but he gets the job done.
speaking of getting the job done, have you found the churritos vendor the trabajadores on your job site keep asking ffor? fetching stale Krispy Kremes just ain't cutting it, Auggie.
and given your long time support for Senator Kathleen Harris, your electoral acumen is, how we say, suspect.
As for my rocket to the sun, I'm still working on a fleet.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
we're all interested in your progress. please hurry.
The Republicans will do this to any candidate. If they have nothing real they will manufacture something, and we will all be fed up with the shit soon enough in any case.
Absolutely.
your not just wrong, you are really really wrong. but keep listening to what Tweety and Co. tells ya, it's a free country.
I don't have or watch cable television, and I follow the mainstream media only through criticism of it on the internet.
My disagreement with you obviously is unacceptable, though, I understand.
fwapfwapfwapfwapfwapfwap goes the monkey spanker...
supreme executive power is derived from a mandate of the masses, not some vestigial aquatic ceremony!
I say if Hillary weighs as much as a duck, she should be preznit.
obama is the kinda guy ya wanna have a beer with.
hadenough
Time for you to get your won blog to rant on.
I fail to the find the logic in blaming Hillary for Bill's blowjob, especially considering the fact the his approval never waned even as he was being fucking impeached. Why would anyone who didn't care then suddenly care now?
And my counter argument is that there is not one goddam new thing you can find for anyone to attack Hillary about that has not been done already. People who made up their minds to vote for the GOP over her are damn sure not going to vote for a different Dem, IMHO.
HRC or Obama is going to get the business.
Trust me.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants
Very simple solution: fight back.
If we can't fight them back and win, then we don't deserve the prize. We fight because it's worth it.
-
Hillary is "her own person"? Then why won't Bill get off my teevee?
Any rumors on Obama's VP choice? He'd be pretty wise to snatch up Jim Webb right about now. Not the most progressive set of candidates, but let's take the White House first and work from there.
and given your long time support for Senator Kathleen Harris, your electoral acumen is, how we say, suspect.
mrs. ibrahim al-jafaari | 02.02.08 - 11:35 pm | #
Bwahahaha.
Sorry, I can't help laughing every time I hear her name. Worst. Candidate. Ever.
"They're about to nominate a candidate who has voluntarily and enthusiastically hung the current hated president around his neck like a rotting chicken."
Yes! And that hated president was elected TWICE!!!
Compared to Bush the jerk-y, McCain is freakin prime rib!!! Don't you get it? McCain will get the Reagan Democrats and this country is still racist and sexist to the core!!!
I'm sorry, but that's the truth and it's better we admit it and develop a strategy to fight it!
.
we're all interested in your progress. please hurry.
THe gurlz have been goofing off.
Progress is slow.
fwapfwapfwapfwapfwapfwap goes the monkey spanker...
Peter Gabriel did some good shit in the 80s.
I fail to the find the logic in blaming Hillary for Bill's blowjob
Well, she was TOO independent, too much her own person.
Had she been a good little Stepford Creature like all the Repugnican women, that never would have happened.
You know....like Mrs. Vitter, Mrs. Craig.....
When Fleischman's pack does their smear, you go out on the stump, and on TV, refute the bullshit (which it surely will be) and personally rub Ari's face in it. 24/7 for however long it takes. That's how you deal with it.
Obama is a criminal.
Wouldn't you like one day to be a grown-up?
Any rumors on Obama's VP choice? He'd be pretty wise to snatch up Jim Webb right about now. Not the most progressive set of candidates, but let's take the White House first and work from there.
Shawn Fassett | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 11:36 pm | #
Tawana Brawley
pack=PAC above
McCain will get the Reagan Democrats
Well, if you're voting for Clinton on the basis of her gender then you're a dinosaur. Sorry. It would've been exciting in 1969 but now it's just stoopid. And I'm not courting you. I could give a fuck.
Elias:
Still waiting for your answer.
Kathleen Harris was instrumental in making sure that Al Gore would not sit in the Big Chair.
"obama is the kinda guy ya wanna have a beer with.
hadenough
Time for you to get your won blog to rant on.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?"
Thanks for the tip.
Yes! And that hated president was elected TWICE!!!
He was elected ONCE you moron.
And his approval rating wasn't 30% before the last election.
"As for my rocket to the sun, I'm still working on a fleet."
looks like we're gonna need it.
but I could be wrong...
.
Elias
You are. And keep yer mitts off my ellipsis...
Hillary is "her own person"? Then why won't Bill get off my teevee?
And that goddamn Mrs. McCain! Why's he always gotta have her by his side? Can't the looser campaign on his own?? And why's Michelle Obama out there giving speeches? Can't Obama stand up for himself?
Wouldn't you like one day to be a grown-up?
Endeavour Morse
Too busy hating the entire world.
Pud's Dream Ticket
David Duke/Adolf Hitler 08
Hillary is "her own person"? Then why won't Bill get off my teevee?
Golly, I've never seen any other spouse campaign for a candidate.
whatthehell happened to threadbot?
Hillary is "her own person"? Then why won't Bill get off my teevee?
Because he's the most successful Dem politician alive? Because he's the only living 2-term serving ex Dem president? Because people love him? Because he's one of the smartest goddam pols in the country? Because he's her fucking spouse?
Pick any one you like.
Hillary is "her own person"? Then why won't Bill get off my teevee?
And that goddamn Mrs. McCain! Why's he always gotta have her by his side? Can't the looser campaign on his own?? And why's Michelle Obama out there giving speeches? Can't Obama stand up for himself?
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
I love you!
When Fleischman's pack does their smear, you go out on the stump, and on TV, refute the bullshit (which it surely will be) and personally rub Ari's face in it. 24/7 for however long it takes. That's how you deal with it.
Yes.
Cockroaches never like the light.
you'll have to forgive pud. he's still tired from being forced to lick clean his mother's bed sores.
Well, if you're voting for Clinton on the basis of her gender then you're a dinosaur.
Yeah, whatever. Were you and Elias going to leave?
Peter Gabriel did some good shit in the 80s.
His Spank The Monkey tour had a nice laser light show.
Hillary is "her own person"? Then why won't Bill get off my teevee?
Yet we've had people saying we should vote for Obama because his wife gave a kick-ass speech. Well, which is it? Should spouses shut up or not?
Mitt RoMney/ The reanimated Strom THurmond
"Keeping the white house white in 08"
Well, if you're voting for Clinton on the basis of her gender then you're a dinosaur. Sorry. It would've been exciting in 1969 but now it's just stoopid. And I'm not courting you. I could give a fuck.
It would be stupid to have a woman president? Why would it have been exciting forty years ago and nothing now, given that there hasn't been a single woman president in this country?
I know what you are saying when you argue against voting for gender or race. But it's also important to understand the symbolic meaning of a woman president or a black president in a country where there are still many who believe that neither women nor blacks are quite human beings.
I, for one, welcome the masterful comedic stylings of the trolls and market research people
They're not as good as Floyd Alvis Cooper but no one is.
Their droll, deadpan impressions of completely unimaginative, humorless, loveless, joyless and meritless human beings is masterful satire.
Could you people talk about the moral superiority of Conservative Republicans again?
It's a personal favorite.
Thanks.
I'm voting for Hillary in large part because she's a woman. We'll be "past that point" when we've had a few women presidents. Not until. I've been living all my life in America w/ a vagina and I assure you, we are not "past that point." You might consider not calling the people you're courting idiots. Just saying.
A. fucking . men.
Don't lecture me on why I may be voting for Hillary or Obama. Their positions as people of a gender or a race do matter to me. And if you don't like that that's too fucking bad. I've seen one too many barely literate, rarely sober whiteboys elected to the office of the Presidency precisely because of of winkie in their pants, the color of their skin and the money in their Daddy's bank account. So - if I decide that it is high time to vote for a woman or an black man because of who THEY are you can just STFU and enjoy your shit sammich
And that goddamn Mrs. McCain! Why's he always gotta have her by his side? Can't the looser campaign on his own?? And why's Michelle Obama out there giving speeches? Can't Obama stand up for himself?
Uh huh.
I'm off to bed.
Buenas noches.
Yet for helping install Chimpy into the Oval Office in 2000, the Bush Clan wanted nothing to do with Kathleen Harris, from thereafter.
1. Hillary Clinton is her own person.
2. Bill Clinton is his own person.
These two simple facts explain much. It isn't as hard as all that.
His Spank The Monkey tour had a nice laser light show.
NTodd, Thread Führer
it took weeks to get that crap off my adidas tracksuit
And that goddamn Mrs. McCain! Why's he always gotta have her by his side? Can't the looser campaign on his own?? And why's Michelle Obama out there giving speeches? Can't Obama stand up for himself?
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
I don't mind Bill campaigning for HIllary.
WHat I want to know is why McLumphaid doesn't have his very dark bangladeshi daughter on the campaign trail?
" he's still tired from being forced to lick clean his mother's bed sores."
oh man
Well, if you're voting for Clinton on the basis of her gender then you're a dinosaur.
One component can certainly be gender. Why not? Breaking the status quo of white male domination is a fairly significant and powerful notion.
Oh, she's also smart, competent and experienced, so she's got that going for her.
This waltz, this waltz, this waltz With its very own breath
Of brandy and death
Dragging its tail in the sea
I swear, that sounds like it oughtta mean something, but I'll be damned if I can figure what...
There are no "Reagan Democrats." There are only former Democrats who bought into a con man and cut their own economic throats.
WHat I want to know is why McLumphaid doesn't have his very dark bangladeshi daughter on the campaign trail?
the "flaxen haired" daughter is certainly making her fair share of appearances.
Well, if you're voting for Clinton on the basis of her gender then you're a dinosaur. Sorry. It would've been exciting in 1969 but now it's just stoopid.
You're male, of course.
Oh, she's also smart, competent and experienced, so she's got that going for her.
NTodd, Thread Führer | Homepage | 02.02.08 - 11:41 pm | #
and she's a lezbo with cankles.
Don't lecture me on why I may be voting for Hillary or Obama. Their positions as people of a gender or a race do matter to me. And if you don't like that that's too fucking bad.
Bitch.
I've been living all my life in America w/ a vagina and I assure you, we are not "past that point."
Just when you thought there was progress, you get the whackjobs in charge and they try and drag us back to a time that only exists in their imaginations.
Because he's the most successful Dem politician alive?
In fairness, he's an amazing politician whose success in getting himself elected and re-elected did not translate into success for his party as a whole.
I trace the current weakness of the Democratic party, which is on display daily in the halls of Congress, to weird afflictions acquired during the Clinton years.
Soi pud likes his women to look exactlky like JohN McCain
or Divine
I will enthusiastically support whoever is the eventual nominee.
so sayeth the guy who's simply one giant cankle.
swollen from head to toe from polyunsaturated fats, high fructose corn syrup and stupidity.
There are no "Reagan Democrats." There are only former Democrats who bought into a con man and cut their own economic throats.
sister of ye | 02.02.08 - 11:42 pm | #
Truth.
WHat I want to know is why McLumphaid doesn't have his very dark bangladeshi daughter on the campaign trail?
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
The same reason that the senior Bushes didn't have their "little brown grandchildren" on the campaign trail with THEM in 1988 and 1992.
1) Hillary is her own person. She is not Bill's BJ.
2) Hillary is within a few points of the prospective GOP nominee.
3) It's fucking February, and electibility is a bogus criterion, as illustrated by one John Kerry.
So. Bull. Fucking. Shit.
Oh, that's right, this isn't a bastion of Clinton apologists.
And being the expert historian you claim to be, let's look at the 2 times over the past 40yrs this nation had an election while it was at war.
In 68, with the country turned solidly against the war, it elected who? The conservative hawk.
In 04, with the country turning against the war, it elected who?
So, my dear Tacitus, why should we expect this trend to change?
.
we're all interested in your progress. please hurry.
THe gurlz have been goofing off.
Progress is slow.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
might the prize of a trip to teh Tastee Freeze sweeten the offer for der fraulein?
Don't let your fear and caution overrule your common sense. How many of you if you had the vote in 1968 would have gladly voted for Humphrey? Well? Don't throw away this chance to get it right. Your children are voting overwhelmingly for Obama. They have more vested in the future than you do.
All they need if YOUR vote.
Do you really want to vote for a candidate who stood up and cheered when Bush said the surge was working at the SOTU? Do you really want a president who refuses to talk to our "enemies"? Do you really want a president who believes in coercive diplomacy? In case you haven't noticed
our economy and military isn't in any position to "coerce" anybody.
you'll have to forgive pud. he's still tired from being forced to lick clean his mother's bed sores.
watertiger
[golf clap]
Yeah, Bill is just some other spouse. It totally normal for him to go yapping through South Carolina about Jesse Jackson...
You know, I don't hang out here much, but this crowd is wacked. You need to get out a little. John Kerry? You're comparing Barack Obama to JOHN KERRY? Turn on c-span, have a drink, and allow yourself to see what's happening in America right now.
Obama just closed a 20 point gap, and you dismiss it with "Hillary's leading! She's the frontrunner!" Yeah, keep hanging on. That's where the future is. Just keep hanging on.
Keep telling yourself that just because people didn't want to IMPEACH a president over blowjobs means they want to plunk down money for Clintons: The Return.
the "flaxen haired" daughter is certainly making her fair share of appearances.
Yes, isn't that odd?
Yet for helping install Chimpy into the Oval Office in 2000, the Bush Clan wanted nothing to do with Kathleen Harris, from thereafter.
MP
Loyalty, like class warfare, is always upward...
It would be stupid to have a woman president?
UH, NO. It's stupid to vote for her BECAUSE she's a woman. Of course it would be nice. But it's not top of the list. Unfortunately it's not as important as being a great leader. We don't need competence right now. We need fucking greatness. Maybe Obama won't achieve that. But I don't think Hillary can. Plus I don't think she can inspire enough young dems to the polls. We need something extra-ordinary and that could (I'm not sure) but just maybe could be Obama.
I'd love to see a woman president. Are you kidding me? Sure I would. Just not a corporate cautious shill. Wrong woman for today.
Far out - Ron Dellums!
I cast my first vote for Ron.
-
The tipoff, of course, is when it's said that voting for a woman, taking into account the fact that she's a woman, is 'politically correct'.
I've seen one too many barely literate, rarely sober whiteboys elected to the office of the Presidency precisely because of of winkie in their pants, the color of their skin and the money in their Daddy's bank account. So - if I decide that it is high time to vote for a woman or an black man because of who THEY are you can just STFU and enjoy your shit sammich
What Jill said. It's time. The good news is that this time around, either a woman or an African American very likely will win. And maybe then you can come around and tell me how it's time for me to "just get over it." Or maybe that should wait, oh, I don't know, until we've had 230+ years of women and African Americans and then we'll all just call ourselves even steven, ok?
Well, if you're voting for Clinton on the basis of her gender then
you're a dinosaur. Sorry. It would've been exciting in 1969 but now
it's just stoopid. And I'm not courting you. I could give a fuck.
You, dear boy, are among the reasons we aren't where we should be. I suggest you take your own stupidity and insert it into one of your bodily orifices.
[golf clap]
shawk
from you, my laconic friend, that is high praise indeed!
so sayeth the guy who's simply one giant cankle.
swollen from head to toe from polyunsaturated fats, high fructose corn syrup and stupidity.
watertiger
He and Tweety have the same problem with women.
might the prize of a trip to teh Tastee Freeze sweeten the offer for der fraulein?
The gurlz are not tempted by such a tawdry offer.
Anyhoo, they're napping.
and she's a lezbo with cankles.
Well, that's really compelling.
Oh yeah - another reason: because Al Gore distanced himself from Bill and we all got fucked for it. And not in the good way.
The 'thugs only want to win.
The Dems get their message all wound up all around the axle.
Just win, Dems. Just fucking win, for once in a decade. Then we'll fine tune.
I'm 19. You're McCain. Tell me why I should vote for you.
I will enthusiastically support whoever is the eventual nominee.
Edwards made me fall in love. Whoever ends up as the nominee, I'll fall in line. And work like hell to make sure we don't see the likes of another Republican in my lifetime.
Sheets above but TKK soiled them already (sigh)
I suggest you take your own stupidity and insert it into one of your bodily orifices.
*giggle*
[golf clap]
shawk
from you, my laconic friend, that is high praise indeed!
watertiger
How you been?
I'm 19. You're McCain. Tell me why I should vote for you.
Because if you don't I won't let you on MY LAWN!!!
You, dear boy, are among the reasons we aren't where we should be. I suggest you take your own stupidity and insert it into one of your bodily orifices.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere | 02.02.08 - 11:45 pm | #
how bout we use yours instead. just the way you like it.
Johnny A-List,
Playing the race card becomes you. No really it does.
Did the giant orange stupid break down. Is that where they are coimng from.
the video:
form over function
perhaps that's what we need
(translation: Obama vs Hillary)
perhaps?
I don't know. But the video makes one think.
Many other advanced nations have had women as their leaders... their experience doesn't convince me that merely changing the gender of those in charge counts for all that much.
One Ron Dellums = a lot of Kennedys, progressive-wise
-
As for my rocket to the sun, I'm still working on a fleet.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
we're all interested in your progress. please hurry.
a dingo ate the baby
The Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom Planet might help you with some of the technical preblems encountered in building a plywood spaceship in your backyard...
I'm 19. You're McCain. Tell me why I should vote for you.
a. hooliganensis
Because you're an American and you want to WIN in Iraq, not LOSE. Go, team, Go. Rah Rah.
The other guys want to LOOOOOOSE. BOOOOO!
Simple as that.
hadenough | 02.02.08 - 11:48 pm | #
I didn't play the race card, BILL CLINTON did! Use the Google, my friend!
Y'know, I haven't thought of the Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom Planet, or Mr Bass' Planetoid, for 50 years...
Many other advanced nations have had women as their leaders... their experience doesn't convince me that merely changing the gender of those in charge counts for all that much.
Elizabeth I, Catharine the Great and so on?
It may not matter for how well things are done, but it matters greatly when your little niece asks you tell her about famous women.
Let's repeat this one more time, kiddies - Al Gore won!
how bout we use yours instead. just the way you like it.
pud
If your dick is as little as your brain is, no wonder you can't get any.
And you won't get any from the women in this community.
Now, get lost, you fucking little pig!
UMmmm, sheets.
I remember being so excited to have Bill and Hillary going to the WH--my friends and I talked about 8 years of Bill, 8 years of Al Gore, then 8 years of Hillary. I met Ron Brown at some NJ political gathering, and I was thrilled--he was brilliant, handsome, together. There seemed to be endless potential. No Reagan, no Bush. Good things would happen for the country.
Then Sam Nunn kneecapped Clinton with his promise to bring him down if he let gays stay in the military. Suddenly the press (I didn' realize at the time it was the MCM-Mainstream Corporate Media) was sniping, carping, snarking (and I didn't know about snark at the time, either).
I also remember that as his inauguration approached, some writer began collecting dreams people had about Bill Clinton. Wrote a book about them, iirc. Amazing! I recall dreaming about healthcare.... Honest! Plenty of women dreamed they had sex with Bill. Don't know anything about dreams about Hill.
And then the ReThugs did nothing but obstruct, Dems argued among themselves, Clinton was blamed for not having all his appointees ready to put in place really fast, his AG nominee had nanny problems, Lanie Guinier was character assassinated by the ReThugs who told Clinton she would never get through. And the NYTimes went back to its pre-election attempt to tie the Clintons to an Arkansas land deal scandal.
Not fun.
May this year be better: May our nominee win and have a decent Democratic majority. May the MCM be skeptical but fair, report without the usual Dem bashing. May the ReThugs be smushed (that's civil, right?).
Simple as that.
SteveLG
Please, Mr. Custer, I don't wanna go.
I am slayer of threads!
Oh, that's right, this isn't a bastion of Clinton apologists. - Keep moving the goalposts. You asserted that from the beginning this place was a den of Clintonistas, when nothing is further from the truth. I'm not a Clinton supporter, nor an apologist. I simply observe that saying she's definitely going to lose is bullshit.
And being the expert historian you claim to be - I'm squinting real hard and can't seem to find the place where I ever claimed to be an expert historian.
In 68, with the country turned solidly against the war, it elected who? The conservative hawk.
In 04, with the country turning against the war, it elected who?
So, my dear Tacitus, why should we expect this trend to change? - 1) Then no Democrat will win, Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Kucinich or Wes fucking Clark.
2) TurnING against the war is not the same as turnED, and Kerry ran a piss poor campaign.
3) You might want to check you assertion that the country had turned against the war in 68. The under-30 crowd was still in support, and there are often other issues decided during an election, oddly enough.
4) Today 70% are against the war, Bush is polling significantly lower than Nixon was during Watergate, the Democrats owned the Vietnam war, etc.
5) The Principle of Induction might work WRT to the sun rising in the east, but this is politics.
SteveLG--The Congressional Dems were quite nicely messed up before Clinton took office. If they'd backed him better on his programs, maybe the public wouldn't have been pissed off at them for messing up out chance at national healthcare (which could not speak its name as such).
I think I'm not expressing my point clearly. I'm going to try one more time and then go to bed, where I should have been an hour ago. God, I hate the internet sometimes.
I like Bill Clinton. He was great for this country. Blowjobs from intern was a bad decision for him to make. Republicans were snakes, vicious, horrible, and made the whole episode WORSE for the country. At that time, they actually managed to make people feel sorry for Clinton. That's what kept his favorables up.
Fast-forward to '08. People remember the drama. They attach it to one name: Clinton.
If she's our nominee, it's all coming back, and independents will prefer to vote for a war hero.
I mean, if you were the GOP, isn't that what you'd do?
N todd,
I truly hope you are right! But my gut feeling says something differently. I listened to C-span everyday and the callers from both the independent lines and the republican phone lines are voting for barack Obama because they are against the war. Not one anti-war republican or independent has said they would vote for Hillary, This truly worries me. We need new voters, and definitely independents to win this thing. I'm leaning Barack because I think he has a chance to win the overall election. I can't bear to see another rethug in the WH.
Oh, that's right, this isn't a bastion of Clinton apologists. - Keep moving the goalposts. You asserted that from the beginning this place was a den of Clintonistas, when nothing is further from the truth. I'm not a Clinton supporter, nor an apologist. I simply observe that saying she's definitely going to lose is bullshit.
And being the expert historian you claim to be - I'm squinting real hard and can't seem to find the place where I ever claimed to be an expert historian.
In 68, with the country turned solidly against the war, it elected who? The conservative hawk.
In 04, with the country turning against the war, it elected who?
So, my dear Tacitus, why should we expect this trend to change? - 1) Then no Democrat will win, Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Kucinich or Wes fucking Clark.
2) TurnING against the war is not the same as turnED, and Kerry ran a piss poor campaign.
3) You might want to check you assertion that the country had turned against the war in 68. The under-30 crowd was still in support, and there are often other issues decided during an election, oddly enough.
4) Today 70% are against the war, Bush is polling significantly lower than Nixon was during Watergate, the Democrats owned the Vietnam war, etc.
5) The Principle of Induction might work WRT to the sun rising in the east, but this is politics.
NTodd, Thread Führer
You're right, these couldn't be the attitudes or words of someone who claims to be an expert historian...
*doing my best Jerry Seinfeld eye roll*
!
Wow. Just, wow.
Ultimately congress will decide what the Health care plan will be. The president whether it be Hillary, Barack or McCain. If the dems get passed the 60 votes needed in congress then it will be debated as to what type of health care plan is feasible. Argueing over whether Hillary or Barack have better plan doesn't make sense to me. When the new congress starts debating over which programs they are considering then I will be paying full attention.
Is your dog getting enough metal?
Just asking.
see video: MoveOn.org Pushes the Worst (Clinton and Obama) while ignoring Gravel for President
MoveOn is doing such a disservice to the American people. MoveOn is undermining efforts to end the war. MoveOn pushes candidates who ignore the US Constitution and International Law. Obama openly violates international law by threatening Iran with an attack.
http://representativepress.googl...com/
MoveOn.html
ONE OF THE BEST ARTICLES
http://livelymoney.blogspot.com/...re-are-
two.html
Duncan,
I feel naive. And vulnerable. But...
...I want to...believe.
Awful.
I think we should nominate another uninspiring policy wonk over the flashy "cult leader." That's worked so well for us in the past.
I think we should nominate another uninspiring policy wonk over the flashy "cult leader." That's worked so well for us in the past.
I was an Edwards supporter for a long time precisely because i liked his policy papers and wonkish approach to the nuts and bolts more than those of the other candidates.
But now that he's out, I'm all in with Obama. We need to remember that before anything gets done on policy, we're going to have to convince the American people first that something needs to be done.
And that's going to take a leader with the ability to inspire. I'll vote for Hillary if she's the nominee, of course, but she doesn't light a fire under me. She won't bring in hordes of new voters who presumably will vote down ticket for Democratic legislators as well, enough to inspire voters and enable a strong liberal majority in both houses of Congress.
The greatest liberal changes of the 20th century were brought about under FDR. He was by no means a policy wonk and certainly had no grand unifying vision for the New Deal. But he could inspire, and he could lead, and he got lots of liberals elected down ticket.
Works for me.
The video is a distraction. It's advertising, and it may work. That's just part of doing business.
You hire people to take care of those things for you. It doesn't directly reflect your beliefs or abilities. However...
Obama actually did say this during the debate-
I don't want to just end the war, but I want to end the mindset that got us into this war in the first place.
To my knowledge, no other candidate has stated this. It's almost as if he's saying that US foreign policy was misdirected, isn't it?
Whether he believes it or not, whether he can do anything about it or not, he deserves praise and support for saying it. Just saying it is a positive thing.
Just chiming in for the historic record. Comment 1000+ never to be read. But. Optimism is a good thing, neh?
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